Speaker 1: What is up, fellow sickos.
Speaker 2: I am Dan Valley coming at you with my certified
fantabulous goes. Mister Grant Hughes taking a break from sort
of day to day reactions to look at more macro stuff.
This is something we might try and do once a week,
just these little mini things to give you a third
full type episode of the week if we can. No promises,
but we're always what did we call grant hashtag? We
try shit, we try, continue to try shit. We are
behind on this, but we're going to react to some
of the rookie extent or all of the rookie extensions
that were given out and maybe some of their bigger
picture implications. I will say, Grant, before we throw it
on screen, have you figured out, like what's the best
way for you to frame how you feel about an extension?
And it's not even just for the rookies but for
any team. And what I kind of mean by this
is what I've kind of settled on is now I'm
kind of looking at Okay, well, how much what percent
of the cap is.
Speaker 1: The final year worth? Now?
Speaker 2: And that's probably the best way because you could look
at it in general. Oh, the first year is this
percentage of the salary cap? But I think even scaling
out forward and saying, well, how is this contract going
to age? But I'm also trying to view it through
a lens of as we're talking about this, I talk
in circles. You're just super smart. I don't want it
to be like inaccessible wire rambling on or throwing too
much information at listeners and viewers. And I think I
settled on that might be the best nutshell way aside
from the raw number, to say, okay, like this is
again zooming forward, fast forward, what does this contract look
like down the line? How might at age that might
be the number that I view is most important?
Speaker 3: Now does that mean you know it totally? Because you
got to find because the raw dollar figures still just
like don't compute sometimes because of the rising cap, and
you're comparing it to older deals. You know? That seemed like,
how is how is Scottie Barnes getting X? And when
I can't even think of a good example now, and
when like so and so signed five years ago to
his rookies el Max, it was why It's like those
numbers kind of stick in your head. So some kind
of distant point of comparison helps for me. I just well, one,
I think we both view it and this is a
weird thing, but this is just how it is. From
the team perspective, Don't you default to that where it's like, oh,
is this a good value for the team, sort of
unavoidable because otherwise it's like if you go from the
player perspective, it's like he got the most money that
he could, therefore it's a good deal.
Speaker 2: It's like not, I think because especially when these like
rookie extensions are signed, it's the team that in all
like wood is taking the bigger risk because like, these
players are never finished products, right, and then it gets
to and with them it's the only time you're taking
not a risk is if you signed for less than
the max. And so if you're a player looking at
ahead to next season, and this is me being generous,
we're talking like the Spurs, the Hornets and the Nets
can have cap space if they really want to, Like,
there are some other teams that can sneak in there.
And we saw zero restricted free agency offer sheets go
out this past summer and last summer. Grand I think
Paul Reid the only player who signed on and that
was because the Jazz did that.
Speaker 1: I love it, I favor it.
Speaker 3: Yeah that was a weird one. No, So yeah, it's
team perspective. I I mean really, because the numbers get
funky and like I still am not I don't. I
think that you do this way better than I do.
Where you look at what's the percentage of the cap, Like,
just tell me what percentage of the cap this this
is going to be on an annual basis, and that
that at least keeps things like scaled correctly for me.
I just still kind of look at it relative, like
in relative terms, where Scotty Barnes got this, kid Cunningham
got that. Now a lot of these are gonna be identical,
but in general, just like what's the because I'm just
looking for what the market says a guy's worth and
did you pay more or less than that? And that's
like kind of my starting point for evaluating these. It's
not sophisticated or like all that inventive, but that's just
how I try to like keep it straight.
Speaker 1: Let's begin with the Max guys.
Speaker 2: I think these were the four that just signed their
deals first, right, So Scottie Barnes kaid Cunningham, who I
have up there twice for some reason, I'm tized for
everybody watching h Franz Wagner and Mobley was the other one.
So they all got five years, two hundred and twenty
four point two million. All of them can get up
to two hundred and sixty nine point one million, depending
on whether they make an All NBA team or win
DPOY slash MVP. There is with Mobiley and Franz Wagner,
specifically Grant, there's differentiation. There's like differential language that says
their contracts can also increased to two forty six point.
Speaker 1: Seven depending on what happens.
Speaker 2: So I wanted to I have two just overarching questions
on this one. Was there any of these contracts that
you felt most done easy about?
Speaker 3: I mean, you know what it is, right, Like, I
think this is the consensus. It's just it's Wagner's He's
proved the least of these three of these four three
other guys, of the of the four that got Max's,
his ceiling seems the lowest, and he's also not the
best player on his team. That doesn't disqualify you like
Mobiliy's not either. I guess you'd say, because Donovan Mitchell
just has been more decorated. Uh, but but that's that's
the one where the moment it was signed, it was
like really like that the just going all the way there, huh.
And then when you get a couple other guys after
the fact that are signing for less than the max,
I think it looks the iffiest of the four by
far right that that's that has to be the answer
for sure.
Speaker 2: And who do you think has the best chance of
getting to that thirty percent max, which would be two
hundred and sixty nine million.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think you have to go mobilely because
he could win Defensive Player of the Year like that.
I don't I immediately went to that. Yeah, yeah, that
that's just the way you get there. Like Cunningham's not
winningn MVP Cunningham, I mean, Cunningham could make an all
could be all NBA. I've really I think everybody but
Franz has a shot at all NBA here. But yeah,
that so just of those, maybe we should confine it
to just those other three. We'll take Franz out of Mobile,
Cunningham and Barnes. Do you just view those as like
it's a three way tie for like that's sensible, or
do you do differentiate any of those three and say,
like maybe one of them shouldn't have got the max,
or maybe maybe one of them could have pushed for
a player option, which kind of used to happen more
often than it does on that last year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, don't worry.
Speaker 2: Patrick Williams got a player option, though I think it
would probably be Barnes had the most leverage because he
is the most important player to his team and is
also just shown more than Kay Cunningham to date, in
part because he's played more. If you were asking of
those three, forget about defensive player the year, who's more
likely to make it all NB a team this year?
I actually might it's probably Mobile because maybe I'm skewed
by the Barnes at orbital fracture where it's always even
gonna have the games played at the end of all
this for the Raptors. But he's playing on a good team.
He has a chance to be the second best player
on that team this season. So whether it do you
want to frame it as overall getting to that thirty
percent max as of right now, though for all these
deals are currently worth projected to be worth about twenty
two and a half percent of the coup salary cap.
In their final year, that number will take up a
bit if anyone actualizes the thirty percent language.
Speaker 1: I will say I will be fairly surprised.
Speaker 2: If any of these four players wind up getting the
thirty percent max.
Speaker 3: I just don't.
Speaker 2: I don't feel great about any of them making an
All NBA team this year.
Speaker 3: I think I agree with that and like, and as
we always say, if any of them does, then that's
a great problem for their team to have, because you
just that means, that means this deal was a good
one if the guy basically just proved that he could
hit the accelerators in the contract in that first year.
Speaker 2: Honestly, the only team really quickly that I think probably
should have negotiated harder. Like even if you thought, well,
why not just use restricted free agency to our advantage,
The Cavs weren't gonna have cap space.
Speaker 1: The Raptors, you just don't.
Speaker 2: Have anyone other than Scotty Barnes, the Pistons. You don't
get to treat players like this when you're the No,
we're gonna make you wait.
Speaker 1: Even though we probably not gonna have cap space.
Speaker 2: Either it's Orlando because Franz is not your most important player.
You had the ability to be flexible, but you decided
in other areas, as we'll get to with Jalen Suggs,
that you're not going to use that flexibility.
Speaker 1: So next up.
Speaker 2: As we go through this, it was really in no
particular order. We're on to jail and Johnson five years,
one hundred and fifty million, no options. That'll be worth
thirteen point twenty five percent of the cap in year five.
As of now, Grant, it looks like it will be
where it's going to be at a flat rate. So
that's that's always you normally see an increase or decrease.
I feel like maybe a flat Atlanta. Did they give
a flat rate thing with John Collins too?
Speaker 1: I think they might have.
Speaker 3: That sounds right. Actually, it's a weird thing usually because
it used to just be just standard what eight percent
raises or what. Depending on the length of the deal
and the type of contract, it was always increasing this.
Do you feel like maybe this is a response to
some of the second apron fears of just like, okay,
we just want to lock this number in so that
we know what it's going to be going forward and
we don't have to account for rising pet salaries.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: It just felt to me like there have been more
Well in the Magic do this all the time with
like flatter declining deals, but there's been more I don't know,
inventiveness and how you're there teams are structuring these deals.
It seems like lately I think so.
Speaker 2: In Atlanta's case, and by the way, I was wrong,
they did not do a flat salary with John Collins.
In Atlanta's case, they didn't even have the option really
of making it declining because they're so concerned about the
tax in these coming years. Flat is interesting is always
interesting to me though, because okay, so you know what
that number is going to be, and you know it's
always going to be less of the salary cap moving
forward than it was in year one, despite not declining,
how did you feel about, like, Okay, this is not
this was noticeably blow what his max could have been.
He has not started. Jalen Johnson's not look good to
start this season. I think they've given him too much
agency agency on offense. I don't know if that's an
issue of Okay, look at the personnel that's available they're
dealing with some injuries here, but I think they need
to get back to streamlining his role where it's like
get out and transition, put him the ball in situations
where he already has advantages to go downhill, rather than
asking him to create or giving him a license to
kind of not even operate from dead stops but to
try and initiate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I this is this is one where upfront it's
like one hundred and fifty over five, Oh my god,
but that's really just eventually going to be by the
time this deal is done, thirty million a year is
just like it's what fifteen used to be in terms
of Okay, that's a solid starter more or less. So
like that's just what it is. I'm fine with it.
I'm not going to read too much into his struggles early.
I just think if you just I care more about
like the trajectory that he's on more broadly, and the
fact that last year he showed several new facets and
I would expect him to just continue to get better
and and like I don't know, I don't think a
Max was ever really in play, but this is a
significant deal that does bring some risk. But I think
I think odds are he's going to be worth this,
just whether you have Trey Young there or not, which
is kind of another factor I think in Atlanta's thinking.
Speaker 2: I think it was probably a good bet by him,
just based on how Atlanta has on multiple occasions now
marginalized important talent around Trey Young when you kind of
look like what happened with John Colin, we look at
what happened.
Speaker 1: With de Johonte Murray.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in many ways, so I think this was probably
I think it's team friendly still, but I do think
it was probably a smart decision for Johnson, who he
is someone though that I think teams would have given
an offer sheet to in RFA. Next up, if you
want to take us through his footnotes, is another Jailen,
Jalen Suggs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jalen Suggs also gets five for one point fifty.
Looking a little different though, and you've got it up
here on the graphic, it'll be just under twelve percent.
His salary will be just under twelve percent of the
cap in the final year. Uh So obviously it declines
he's gonna make thirty five million the first year, which
is just inside four million of the of the max, so, like,
you know, pretty close to what the best he could
have done, at least in that initial year. But then
by the end he's down to twenty six point seven million,
which is just like, that's that's a low number five
years from now so or yeah, five years so uh,
if he stays exactly as good as he's been, that's
a that's a heist number. If he gets any better
then like, and that'll just come on offense. We've talked
about it plenty and this is still totally fine, and like,
I don't know that he's going to be a thirty
five million dollar player in the first year of the deal,
but he might be, and then after that it just
gets easier and easier for him to clear sort of
the value bar. So I guess I would ask you, like,
you're spending the same amount of money on Jalen Johnson
and team teams and situations are different, But do you
like one of one or the other of these one
hundred and fifty million deals one hundred and fifty million
dollar deals more or less than the other?
Speaker 2: Wow, it's probably the Sugs one because I think he
has the higher two way ceiling. Even if Jalen Johnson
has the overall higher offensive ceiling, and maybe I'm skewed
a little bit too much by the start of the season,
but when you look at it declining, and also just
what the this is magic specific So it's not a
reason they like the deal better. But now it's okay,
maybe there's a year that you have to cause is
this going to be a team even if it's good,
that's paying the tax? I don't know, But now can
you suck it up for a year? But his deal
is going to decline as you are Franz and Paala
Banko kicking in. Does that make it easier to keep
your core intact while not just we're gonna keep those
three guys regardless, but now adding talent around them or
paying talent that you need around them.
Speaker 1: So I like that.
Speaker 2: Aspect of it for Orlando. But I think I'm curiously
what your answer be. I think I like the Sugs deal.
Let's forget about the salary scales just in net value.
I think I'm more confident in Suggs actualizing his value
on this than I am Jalen Johnson.
Speaker 3: I think Suggs is the safer bet because you sort
of you know that he can be a key player
on a very good team because he was last year,
and that's that's true. While he still has pretty obvious
areas for growth, some of which I think are like
pretty doable. I kind of can't get away from Johnson
having like the higher ceiling, Like if he hits his
you know, ninety fifth percentile outcome, I think then Jalen
Johnson is like a two way big wing slash forward
that can kind of do everything, and that player type
just matters more than like an essentially like a combo guard.
I don't know that that's that's the thing. Maybe Sugs
eventually proves he is actually a point guard, which hasn't
really happened yet, so there's upside there. But I think
Johnson has Johnson's the ceiling play. Suggs is maybe the
floor play, And so with the declining structure, I think
I still like the Suggs one a little better. But
I do think you have to acknowledge that Johnson, because
of the athleticism, size, position, like, there's a chance that
that's one of the there's a better chance that that's
one of the best value deals in the league in
like three years than there is for Suggs.
Speaker 2: I'd say that's Jalen Johnson is more of an anomaly
offensively for sure at his peak. But I will say
with Suggs is we see defensive playmaking even this season
from JJ. But Jalen Suggs has a way of defensive
playmaking without it costing his team or being viewed as gambles.
And that's a very tough line to straddle that I
don't know sure if Johnson does well just yet. Next
up and this will be my guy. We have mister
Trey Murphy who has yet to play this season. Four years,
one hundred and twelve million dollars projected to be fifteen
point zero six percent of the cap in year four.
What did you make of this one grant? I was I,
I think I'm surprised this is what help. I'm surprised
at how team friendly.
Speaker 3: It ended up being interesting. I think my first thought
was not so much about the deal but what it
meant for the team, because, as everybody immediately jumped to,
it's like, Okay, well Brandon Ingram is really gone now
because you're not you're not paying Tray Murphy this to
come off the bench. I don't think it wouldn't be
like an insane salary for a really really good six man.
But it does to me suggest that like the Ingram
trade is just more likely.
Speaker 1: That or the trade I guess.
Speaker 3: Somebody, Yeah, right, you got to clear a little bit
of room because this is now like on trade there
it is first Scoot Henderson on draft night, Right, That's
what I think. Like the shooting is a premium skill,
and the position Murphy play is the defensive potential of
the length like all that stuff. Just that feels like,
you know, it's worth what are we at, like twenty
twenty eight twenty nine a year? Give something with twenty
seven ish? I think that's about right. I do feel like,
don't don't you think that it presumes that Murphy will
continue to be as efficient and effective as he's been
over just larger samples of minutes against better opponents, Like
this presumes that, right, because it's if he's just what
he was last year, which and we love him is
I don't know, this might be a little rich, right,
it like improved his pricet.
Speaker 2: I think I think if you were to if he's
just the same player, but he's locking more minutes and
he's in the starting lineup. I think he's done enough
to deserve this. This does that's interesting. This kind of
feels the number seems to reflect that the Pelicans don't.
I mean, you lock him up with this number anyway.
He is something that I think he could have went
to restricted free agency. He might have had more suitors
than Jalen Johnson or Jalen Suggs just because of how scalable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, universal for.
Speaker 2: Sure, right, but this does when you almost look at
the number and the fact there's no player option at
the end of it, does it kind of say.
Speaker 1: No, that all right?
Speaker 2: They what he is now on offense, like that's just
what they consider him. He's showing me more, but it
doesn't seem like they're prepared to let him try to
branch out.
Speaker 3: I would say, yeah, well, and that's just kind of
the player he's been where he's catch and shoot, catch
and drive. Guy, he's not, you know, handling the ball
a ton. I think if if he had more of
that type of stuff in his game, this just just like,
there's no way he signs for this little right, or
the offers are way bigger, or maybe he's more incentivized
to go to free agency. Because then you're talking about
like a primary scoring like playmaking big wing, which is
that's the premium asset in the league. This this does
to me suggests like I do think he can just
play more and sustain his like permanent stuff over longer stretches.
And I think you're right. I think that does that.
This deal does sort of make it seem like that's
the expectation and not that he's going to be like
contrasted with Jalen Johnson's it's like that seems to prising
you're gonna do some more like on ball stuff probably
where this this doesn't seem to do that.
Speaker 2: And also they didn't have the flexibility to do so.
This is a team that probably could have benefited from
a declining scale because of just thinking about, Okay, you've
paid on if you wanted to pay Ingram, that might
be a way to fit all that in. But they
don't have the They're toning that fine line but beneath
the tax moving forward, so they it is escalating. We're
onto your guy, Mike Goasic Moody.
Speaker 3: Just the I mean three years, thirty nine million got
done right around the mid level range that was kind
of hinted at that that might be where things were
going thirty seven and a half million. That's guaranteed. He's
got one and a half million unlikely incentives, which, by
the way, this is a new trend. I don't know
if you've been kind of keeping up with this, Like
incentives might be just going away because they do count
against the apron now and they didn't before. So if
you throw a bunch of incentive dollars into contracts, that's
counting again. That's but you don't want that to put
you over aprons. So even though if it's not a cap, it's.
Speaker 2: Just like that, and I might have mislabeled it. So
I apologize his are likely incentives, they're considered. I would
love to know exactly what those likely incentives are because
what about Moses Moody performance is considered likely under Steve.
Speaker 3: Karr playing more than Jonathan kaminga. So this is projected
to be worth just a little over seven percent of
the cap in the final year, obviously a very tradeable number. He,
like we said about Murphy, Moody is just kind of
a scalable. You're not scaling him up, but he does
fit everywhere. He's just a three and d wing that
has a little more off the bounce than you might think,
so fits.
Speaker 1: Into the poison pill provision neatly. That's how scalable he is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, outgoing salary of eleven point two million, which fits
into the mL E, which is now like a trade
exception teams have if they didn't use it. So it's
pretty I wouldn't say the deal designed to be traded,
but if you were designing a deal to be traded,
it might look like.
Speaker 2: This, right, because my first thought was because I was
looking at a number and I was, they're gonna trade
him this season, aren't they?
Speaker 1: Still?
Speaker 2: He locked down a pay day and he's gonna finish
the season somewhere else.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean he's he. Whether he plays more than
he has or not is kind of like, I don't
know how relevant it is, because this is a eminently
tradable contract that almost any team would be interested in having.
If the if he just continues to be either the
seventh guy or the thirteenth guy on the war like
that somewhere else, he would just be the eighth man,
maybe better than that, And that's this is a bargain
for that type of player.
Speaker 2: I mean, move on, to Corey Kisbert, who signed for
four years fifty four point one million dollars. There's a
team option on that final year, at which point if
if they pick it up, that's like six point three
percent of the salary cap in the final year he'll
be twenty nine years.
Speaker 1: That can't be correct.
Speaker 2: I have to have a tight there's no way that's
going to be his age, maybe age twenty seven or something.
I know that Corey Kispert's older, but he's not gonna
be age twenty nine at the end of this, is
he grant?
Speaker 3: I think you're right. He didn't come in as a
as a young guy.
Speaker 2: So what do you have any strong thoughts about this deal? I,
if I had to give one, I do think he
actually does more than space the floor, and he's had
some prougher defensive moments than I would have expected.
Speaker 1: And by the way, I was right about his age
twenty nine season. That's that's wild. I still thought this numbers.
Speaker 2: The number is fine, but when you look at the
average annual value, and it's more than Moses Moody, who
I view as he's more scalable at both ends of
the court.
Speaker 1: But it's it's also kind of about the same number.
Speaker 2: It's like they started it, they also made it. They
didn't decline it. But his first two years will be
about fourteen and then it drops to about thirteen. So
just the little extra flexibility there.
Speaker 1: I just I don't know.
Speaker 2: He wasn't someone who was going to get an offer sheet,
and I don't know that you have to worry about
him about performing this. I'm fine with the deal that
that must be. Just like I understand it from both
the player and team perspectives. I don't know that anyone
made out more so than the other here, No, it
does it.
Speaker 3: I mean like you have to view anything with the
Wizards at this point, it's like, well, okay, so this
is done with the intention of it being appealing as
a trade asset, like and then just this is the
cost of shooting. But you know, on the market, I
don't know. I don't I don't love it just cause
I don't know. I don't know how much difference there is.
I don't want to undersell it, but like there's is
Kispert a better fundamentally better player than like Malik Beasley,
you know, I don't know. It's like you can imagine
them occupying similar roles in Beasley's gone. You know, it
was a minimum guy two years ago making six this year.
It doesn't have four years of security like Kispert does.
It feels like a little bit of an overpay, but
not to the point where you couldn't imagine some team deciding, yeah,
we'll give up like a couple seconds and expiring salary
for this guy to just come in and give us
a spacer right like that. That feels like what this is?
Speaker 2: I saved what I believe the most interesting two for last,
and they're from the same team. So we begin with
Alpha and Shangun.
Speaker 3: This this is the one you point to when you're
criticizing the Franz Wagner deal and some of the other
Like you know, you're not going to say, don't give
Kate or Mobley or Scottie the max, but like Shanghun
not getting the max. Even if you want to say, oh,
it's because he got the player option on the fifth year,
that's still I mean five for that's seventeen percent of
the cap and the final year of the deal, you
could make the case that he has been more productive
to this point in his career than any of those
guys that got Maxes. I mean, Mobiley's got an argument.
I suppose Barnes maybe, but like this is just it's
it's a little under. It's almost five million under the
max that he could have gotten in the first year
of the salary. He'll be twenty seven. Uh when that
player option hits. He just like, great deal for the
Rockets and also kind of a good deal for him
because he's gonna get out a year early and be
able to sign another huge deal sooner. I was just
surprised that this got done sub max just because of
where the other max guys came in. Were you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, When I saw Fronz getting the max, that was
kind of well, why isn't Shane Gun? I know, his role,
like the Magic kind of identified Fronz as a guy
in year one and Shane Gun took into what year three? Yeah,
for him to get there, it's a really good deal
for them. I think it only it shocked me. It
didn't shock me that the Rockets did this because you
look at this year's for you agnency class. They didn't
need to care about cap space, and you view it
in conjunction with they're actually lowered. I think Jalen greens
like offseason cap number. By signing him, I think you
looked at it and said, there's more of a chance
that he's going to outperform this deal next year and
we'll have to max him out. So let's just save
the money off the top now and if we need
to cut salary or just do everything via trade, which
it seems like they're going to. But in terms of
upgrading the roster, not moving shangun specifically with him though,
and I think this was actually a stute by him.
I don't know which team of the cap Space Squasma
went out and tried to give him MAXI money. They
would have been signing trades on the table, I'm sure.
But did he look at this roster as the Rockets
and there's just too many guys? And is there just
a chance that even if I'm playing a ton, my
performance slips and my market value suffers as a result
because they can't even five minutes for read Shepard. Right now,
I'm looking at Aman Thompson. I know that the raw
shooting percentages don't necessarily show this. This dude looks like
he's itching to make an offensive breakout well, ending everyone's
lives on the defensive end, and it's oh yeah, like
he's averaging fewer minutes per game than last too, So
I almost wonder. I know they have more of it.
There's not as many like bigs blooting up the rotation
that you have him and Jabbari and Steven Adams and
that's basically it. But with him, I think was probably
smart to do this. More so not even because of
what the market could have been when you look at
the cap space teams or lack thereof. I do view
him as a central part of what the Rockets are doing,
but there's so many guys in Houston that anything feels
like it's on the table, good or bad for these
individual guys.
Speaker 3: I had not thought about that because I really viewed
him as sort of apart from all the other young
guys they need to play. Because he was such a
focal point last year, it's like you're really different talking
about the Rockets if Sengoon is off the floor, like
he just he had such a huge role, I wouldn't
have thought that. Like he kind of scanned the team
and said, like, my numbers might dip and that might
cost me. That's an interesting position to take it. I
get the explanation that I think in conjunction with that
that makes sense is he just wanted that player option.
But I don't know. Man, Like, if I'm him and
I'm seeing those other guys get Max's and I'm just
like comparing my numbers to them, and like frankly, like
he drove winning to you know, on a five team
last year those other guys, I guess mobilely to some extent,
But like, I don't know if I'm signing this. If
I'm him, I would just so like who's got So
it's Charlotte, Brooklyn and San Antonio? Are you are are
like losing?
Speaker 2: Like the teams where by the way, not even all
those teams are actually they're just they're like if the
Spurs were, hey, we will dumb Zack.
Speaker 1: Collins, we could have gap space.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like Brooklyn doesn't have Like, so inserting
Shangun on some teams might be tough because it's like, well,
Shanguon is just a He's a focal point. He's central
to what you do. Like on Brooklyn, that's fine because
they don't have anybody that that occupies that role. Charlotte's
tricky because LaMelo's there, and you want Brandon Miller to
have the ball. San Antonio would be fascinating with him
and Wimby there. I would two of.
Speaker 2: Those teams, by the way, have Wemby's just the big
in San Antonio. In Brooklyn they did for they did
pay Nick Claxton. That's maybe not somebody who stops you
from going to get shanggun. But Brooklyn is also trying
to be bad for the next two years, So why
would you add, right Chun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's tough when you start looking. I would just
look at Santa now. I'm now I've just spoken talked
myself into wanting san Antonio to happen first Singoon. Now
it won't probably, But yeah, I don't know if I
would have taken it, although, like I'm sure him and
his agent they just looked around and said, like, I
don't know that there's going to be more. You might
just want to lock this up. So still, though, Super
Team like my favorite of the of the five year
deals by far, just because it's so much less than
these other guys got.
Speaker 2: Our final like actual extension that was signed I find
to be the most interesting actually, and I think it
says more about the Rockets's.
Speaker 1: Longer term outlook.
Speaker 2: You signed Jalen Green for three years, one hundred and
five point three million. The first year's salary I believe
ends up being lower than his RFA hold was going
to be.
Speaker 1: I don't have it in front of me and already
forgot the number.
Speaker 2: They have a player option, So we mentioned, like all
these deals Shane Gun and Green, I think we're the
only ones who got player options on all these extensions.
Speaker 1: That's that's that's a little why. But he has a
player option.
Speaker 2: On year three, which will be his age twenty five season.
It's projected to be worth his salary about nineteen point
two percent of the cap. Now, people have said this
is a deal that's designed to be traded, which I
think is where I find it most Like, there's a
chance that Jalen Green ends up being worth this money.
But if you think it's designed to be traded, you're
almost saying, well, then, yeah, he absolutely needs to be
worth this money. It's not happening this season, would be
my point.
Speaker 1: If he gets.
Speaker 2: Traded this year the Rockets, he counts his twelve point
five million dollars in outgoing salary for them, and then
twenty nine point five million in incoming salary for his
next team, and that's just to bridge that different from
the middle of the season. So if he's getting moved,
it's in the off season when you have his salary
coming in at like thirty three million or whatever it
winds up being. So that's where I throw it to you, Grant,
is do you view this one that this is a
deal that they sign so that I know people kind
of fret. Well, actually, let's start here. Let's say they
don't move him. Are you really fretting over the possibility
that you can't extend him off this? I think the
number is high enough. I think what you've risked is
does he want to leave anyway? Because you didn't show
that longer term faith in him out out the jump.
Speaker 3: So I definitely I feel like we got hit over
the head with the take that this was signed because
the Rockets intend to trade him like right away. But
that was my first reaction was was more that, like,
the Rockets aren't sure justifiably that Jalen Green is a
thirty plus million dollar player and a potential cornerstone or whatever,
because he just has sometimes looked like that and most
of the time has not and this is the result.
They're just and he and I think he, like we've
talked about with several other guys sing Goun included, kind
of looked at the landscape and said, like, I don't
know what's going to be out there, why not do
and get back on the market at twenty five. It
just feels like this is risk mitigation by like everybody,
and that's how you get a two plus one in
a situation where it seems like it's almost always four
or five right for guys of like his draft pedigree
and and production really because the counting stats are still
there even if the efficiency hasn't been. So this just
felt like the rockets not comfortable going for four or
five years at whatever that dollar figure needed to be.
And Green and his rep saying like, some of the
things you said about Sangoon like and all the like
you know, minutes crunch stuff applies way more to Green
than it does to Shangoon because there's just more guards
and wings to split the minutes up. It just feels
like everybody mitigated risk here, don't I don't view it
as now he could still be traded, but because so
could everybody on the Rockets. They can't pay everybody. But
I view it more as just like no one was
sure they wanted to commit, and the money's there, and
let's just do it for a couple of years and
see where we're at.
Speaker 2: And by the way, a handful of games of the season,
this deal looks better for the Rockets than it did
when he signed it. Yeah, what I will will say though,
to the evidence that it was designed to be traded,
I view that as, Okay, well, that's an off season thing,
and it's there is logic to it in the sense
of if they wanted to go after they've been linked
to Jimmy Butler. Sure, but if you want to go
after anyone who's on like a big salary, you want
other big salaries because you could talk about, well, they
could have just went the cap space route. There are
a few problem problems with that one. We very rarely
see those lopsided trades where teams are using their cap
space bringing in this big name and teams only want
draft picks. Like there's always a larger contract, even in
the off season ones the bigger trades, there's bigger contracts involved.
The other thing, too, is you can only lament space.
If you thought they were just gonna let Jayalen Green
walk for nothing, and so.
Speaker 3: They're gonna reno just like they were never going.
Speaker 2: To do that, and so they also weren't What are
the odds that they would have signed and traded him
into a team that had cap space, because if a
team is a cap space to absorb him out right,
why are you brokering aside and trade basically anyway, So
you get into that and it's, yeah, there's a they
do need bigger salaries to be traded if they want
to bring in these bigger guys, especially if let's say
it doesn't happen next summer, grant like they're still gonna
want maybe maybe they want more information on this group
where it's reed Shepherd will finish it's just rookie year
and apparently might have barely played Tom and thompsonilly be
wrapping up year two. You have extensions to figure out
for Tarry Easton Jabari Smith. If you want to make
a move at mid season, you definitely need or want
to be open to it. You need one of these
bigger deals. Now, yes you have Fred van Fleet, but
this now when you're looking at him, at forty plus,
Jail and Green is more.
Speaker 3: He's closer.
Speaker 2: Now what would be considered like a mid end contract
so than these higher ends, and those are just that's
easy to fit in where it's well, we can trade
jail and Green and other stuff and not worry about
the math. Whereas Fred van Fleet, oh we attached him
to another contract and now it's fifty million dollars is
all of a sudden in play. So I think I
understand what both sides are doing here, but I will say,
in terms of the percentage of the cap, even the
raw number, there's still for me for me to look
back and say, oh, Jail and Green is worth this.
He shoulders the burden of proof here more than the
whatever you think the rockets are doing. I think it's
easier to understand than to say, oh, Jail and Green
is absolutely worth this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's right. You want to talk about
some deals that did not get done. There are three
notable ones, right, yep. So we got Jonathan KAMINGA, Josh Giddy,
and Quentin Grimes. I love that we've got Quentin Grimes
and here among the notable as part of that's just
because we've got a report that he did turn down
a three for twenty seven extension from the MAVs quickly.
Speaker 1: Would you should he have taken that?
Speaker 3: I mean, I hovering over all this is the lack
of cap space out there. Yeah, but I don't think
I'm taking that because if I'm him, I'm just like,
I know, my role may not be huge here. Although
he has looked good, I'm I gotta just see if
I can get the mid level.
Speaker 2: Now, you don't need cap if you there's a mid
level team out there with a NOD done. This has
been beaten, so I think was smart by him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you want to talk about Giddy, this is a
I think, Well, Giddey and Minga are both really interesting,
but let's let's start with Giddy. So reportedly he wanted
thirty million a year. The Bulls traded Alex CRUs over him,
did not get picks back. So the thinking was that, like, well,
if you're not going to extend this guy, what are
you doing? You just give up Alex Cruso for nothing.
I would argue that extending Giddy at too big of
a number would just compound error. So I'm actually okay
with them saying, let's see what you got, well, we'll
hold on to restricted rights and see what we think
you're worth. And what the market says is that where
you're at.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just but you it's wild that you traded
for this guy. You trade Alex Caruso to get this
guy that you want more information on and aren't prepared
to pay, and no draft picks from the team in
the league that has all the draft picks.
Speaker 1: But overall, I don't.
Speaker 2: Think teams used because it exists, whether you think it
should exists, I've said this many times.
Speaker 1: It's a different matter.
Speaker 2: Teams should use restricted free agency more to their advantage.
So I think the Bulls made the right call. It's
just when you look at it through the lens of
how they valued him in the Alex Caruso trade, it
is a little curious.
Speaker 3: And it's just like the thirty a year would just
be a full stop no from me, like just because
you're not you're not Jalen Suggs, You're not Jalen Johnson,
Like if that's your comp Like, that's wild, You're not there.
I agree. I think the restrict think restrict free agency
should be used like much more aggressively by teams and
that's just the right call here, especially if the number
was thirty, Like, what do you even encounter with if
you're Chicago at that point, it's like twenty, I don't
even know if.
Speaker 2: I want to pay him twenty Do you think they
run and every team runs this risk to an extent,
But if you're probably going to be a bad team
and he just puts up numbers, do they run into
the risk of he put up good numbers but it
didn't necessarily drive winnings, so then or do we just
pay him the thirty five at that point that you
might need to to bump up.
Speaker 1: I think what helps though, which.
Speaker 2: Is why I think Chicago made the right call, even
if I still don't support to how they valued him
in the first place, is that he needs to have
another offer sheet out there. And you need to tell
me the team that's coming in with even thirty million
dollars a year for Josh Gidty right now, I don't.
Speaker 1: See that it exists.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's harsh. I definitely just say, go out
and see what you're worth and we'll decide if we
want to match it. Like, I'm not making the offer
to Gidey. I don't think until he comes back with
nobody and nobody offered me anything, you know, any anywhere
close to I mean if Yeah, the odds of him
actually generating that kind of interest as restricted free agents
are pretty low to me.
Speaker 2: Jonathan Kaminga turned down thirty million dollars a year from
the Warriors grant.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about that?
Speaker 3: You know, I don't really have any thoughts he I
wouldn't have given him that if I'm the Warriors. I
can understand why. I don't think it's rational, But I
could understand why he wouldn't take thirty just because he
believes I think that he's a like a singular star
first option, like that kind of thing might have been
a misread based on the depth of this team to
think he'd get the opportunity to prove that this year,
and he's been mostly terrible so far, outside of a
couple flashes. He was good against New Orleans on the
twenty ninth, But yeah, like this is a proven season
now from a guy that is in year four. That's
a little late to be proving it. But I would
put it this way, I can imagine him commanding much
larger restricted free agent offers than someone like Giddy, just
because of the athletic talent, the sort of the little
bit of mystery boxiness that he still has, which someone
like Giddy really doesn't. But that thirty a year, I
don't I wouldn't have got there if I were the
Warriors and COAMINGA probably should have taken it if it
was anything close to that, But I also weirdly understand
why he wouldn't.
Speaker 2: And perb Jake Fisher a Bleacher report, the Nets and
Sixers have interest in him. If the Sixers have interest
in him, he's getting traded this year because they're definitely
not gonna have cap space and the Nets will have
cap space and that might be an where it's oh
who won't impact the tank but fits our timeline and
could be good. But I think the Warriors were smart
not to give him that money. I understand what he's doing.
He is the one to me that took the way
bigger risk here.
Speaker 3: Yes, for sure, and I would say too, I don't
think you I should say phrase it this way. I
think you can view the Moody extension like in relationship
with this, because the Warriors locked up someone that you
know might be eighty percent as productive as Kaminga going forward,
and they're gonna pay him like a third of what
Kaminga wants. So just as a value proposition and as
like a I don't know insurance play, like just having
Moody locked up at you know, some somewhat similar position
is like, okay, we can we we don't need to
extend anything past our comfort zone at all on cominga.
Now he can just he can demonstrate he's worth a
big contract or not, and then we'll just let the
market decide.
Speaker 2: Final thing over under on his contract being thirty point
five million dollars in year one next season.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go under because I don't think. I don't
think he's going to get the opportunity with the team
as deep as the Warriors, and I am less and
less convinced that even if he did get the opportunity,
he's like he's that type of player. It could change,
but as of today, I don't think he's a thirty
million dollar player.
Speaker 1: I kind of view him on the same level as
a Jalen Johnson.
Speaker 2: Maybe his ceiling will be slightly higher, but I think
Jim Johnson, when you look at the playmaking, he's got
to be the more dynamic even the defense, the more
dynamic player right now.
Speaker 3: No, oh no, totally agree like that. That's why I
would have given Johnson in that deal. I've already said
I wouldn't have given it to Kaminga.
Speaker 1: Take us to what they, mister Hughes.
Speaker 3: We will not be awarded any contract extensions for this effort,
but I hope you all understand the NBA's contract extensions
a little better. Thanks everybody for watching, for listening. If
you have not done so, already a great review, subscribe,
thumbs up, leave comments on YouTube, join our discord, check
out our merch links in the YouTube and podcast description
for all that stuff. Tell your friends quordermouth super helps us,
and uh yeah, let us know in the comments what
you think about some of these extensions. I'm sure there
will be some different opinions on whether any of these
were good or not, except everyone should agree with Shingun
was gotten first deal. Thanks again, Shouts Frank, Apologies, Jared
Allen