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Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK every 33 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:30.359 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 34 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:34.680 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 35 00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:37.920 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 36 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:52.680 Good Evening was Jason, the monster who bludgeoned his beautiful 37 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:55.879 wife to death, leaving his toddler alone for hours to 38 00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:59.040 walk through her blood. If so, would he get away 39 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:02.760 with it to the outside world. Jason and Michelle Young 40 00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:07.159 lived a storybook life, an attractive couple with great jobs, 41 00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:10.280 a beautiful home, a precocious two year old daughter, and 42 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:13.800 a baby boy on the way. Soon after the twenty 43 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:17.360 nine year old pregnant mother's brutally beaten body was discovered 44 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:21.919 on their bedroom floor, a very different picture emerged of 45 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:25.840 a marriage crumbling at its foundation, of a meddlesome New 46 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:29.879 York mother in law whose running critique left Jason frustrated 47 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:33.199 and angry, of a thirty two year old man who 48 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:38.879 behaved like a frat boy, rebelling against adult responsibilities. Murder 49 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:41.919 on Birch Leaf Drive documents the gripping tale of a 50 00:02:41.960 --> 00:02:47.960 family's marathon quest for justice, confounding crime scene evidence, persistence 51 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:52.919 of law enforcement officers, and riveting courtroom combat. The book 52 00:02:52.960 --> 00:02:56.199 they were featuring this evening is Murder on Birch Leaf Drive, 53 00:02:56.680 --> 00:02:59.800 The True story of the Michelle Young murder case, with 54 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:05.199 my special guest, attorney and author Stephen b Epstein. Welcome 55 00:03:05.240 --> 00:03:07.639 to the program, and thank you very much for this interview. 56 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:13.879 Steven b Epstein, thank you for having me. Thank you 57 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:19.560 very much for this. I want to ask how you 58 00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:22.479 came to be the author of Murder on Birch Leaf Drive. 59 00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:25.159 What was it about this story? Tell us the circumstances 60 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:28.840 in which you happen to be and want to write 61 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:30.199 Murder on Birch Leaf Drive. 62 00:03:31.680 --> 00:03:36.159 Well, it really was a light bulb epiphany one day 63 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:39.960 a couple of years ago. I had kept up with 64 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:43.840 this story as someone living in Raleigh, North Carolina, following 65 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:46.759 the news, and this story about this murder that occurred 66 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:49.800 in November of two thousand and six was on the 67 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:53.000 news a lot. There were two different criminal trials, which 68 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:57.560 I suppose we'll talk about during today's interview, and that 69 00:03:57.639 --> 00:04:00.879 the trials were covered a lot. As someone who's a lawyer, 70 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:03.960 I was of course interested. I knew the judge that 71 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:06.039 was involved in the case, I knew some of the 72 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:09.280 lawyers involved in the case. But I think what really 73 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:13.039 drew me to this story was that I shared some 74 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:18.600 common pathways with the victim. Michelle Young. She grew up 75 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:21.920 in Long Island and used a computer in her high 76 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:25.480 school to find her way to North Carolina to go 77 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:27.920 to college. She wound up going to North Carolina State 78 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:31.839 University in Raleigh. I pretty much did the same thing. 79 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:33.959 I grew up in Long Island, and I used a 80 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:36.920 computer in my high school to find my way to 81 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:38.959 North Carolina. I wound up going to the University of 82 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:43.519 North Carolina. But I moved to a place that was foreign, 83 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:46.680 as did she. The culture in the South is quite 84 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:50.360 different in the culture in New York. And I married 85 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:53.000 a Southerner and had to learn all of the things 86 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:56.040 that were different about the South and the culture in 87 00:04:56.079 --> 00:04:59.240 the South. And she did as well. Jason Young grew 88 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:02.439 up in Brevard, North Carolina, in the mountains, and there 89 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:06.519 were a lot of culture clashes between Michelle and Jason 90 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:10.879 and between their two families that were prominent in the 91 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:14.839 problems in their relationship that ultimately, if you believe that 92 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:17.639 Jason is the one who killed her, ultimately led to 93 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:21.639 him committing this despicable act. So there was a lot 94 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:24.800 about this story that I was attracted to, just as 95 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:29.000 basically a reader of newspapers and as someone who watched 96 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:31.800 little bits of news here and there about this trial. 97 00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:35.199 And no one else had written this book. I think 98 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:38.839 that was the thing that eventually pushed me to write it, 99 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:41.560 is that I believe that this was a story that 100 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:46.000 really needed to be told, and that others around not 101 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:48.560 only Raleigh and around North Carolina, but around the country 102 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:52.079 would find to be a very fascinating true crime story. 103 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:55.639 And that's why I decided to write the book. And 104 00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:58.800 certainly that was a great decision. You take the reader 105 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:02.959 November third, two thousand and six, and a phone ringing, 106 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:09.160 awaking Meredith Fisher, and the call is from or the 107 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:13.639 message is brother in law Jason Young and this is 108 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:22.399 her sister's husband. Michelle tell us what that phone ringing means? 109 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:24.959 Does he leave a message? Does she talk to Jason 110 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:29.519 Young personally tell us about that phone call November thirty two. 111 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:33.839 So the book begins with the phone in Meredith Fisher's 112 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:37.279 Mere Fisher's cell phone ringing in her bedroom, waking her 113 00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:40.839 from a dead sleep at twelve fourteen pm on November third, 114 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:46.560 two thousand and six. Because she's asleep, she doesn't answer. Eventually, 115 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:50.920 she sets the phone down and listens to the voicemail, 116 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:54.839 which is from her brother in law, Jason Young. And 117 00:06:54.879 --> 00:07:00.040 what Jason Young says in that voicemail is that he 118 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:04.439 he had left some papers on the printer in his 119 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:07.959 home on Birch Leaf Drive in Raleigh, North Carolina, at 120 00:07:08.000 --> 00:07:11.600 the time he departed for a business trip by car 121 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:14.839 to Virginia, and those papers that he said he left 122 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:18.639 on the printer were of auctions that were taking place 123 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:23.480 on eBay for coach purses, And what he says is 124 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:27.040 that he had intended to take those with him on 125 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:29.319 his business trip because he was trying to figure out 126 00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:34.079 the perfect gift for Michelle for their third wedding anniversary. Now, 127 00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:36.560 mind you, this call was on November third, two thousand 128 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:40.079 and six. Their third wedding anniversary was on October tenth, 129 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:44.079 two thousand and six. A few weeks before. Nevertheless, he 130 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:47.600 says he really wants Meredith to run the twenty minutes 131 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:51.319 over to his home, pull those off of the printer, 132 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:54.279 and get them before his wife sees them, because he 133 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:58.040 didn't want them to spoil her surprise and that he 134 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:00.920 was thinking of getting her a coach purse were their anniversary, 135 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:04.879 And that's what eventually leads to Meredith heading to fifty 136 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:08.160 one oh eight Birch Leaf Drive, the home that was 137 00:08:08.199 --> 00:08:10.920 shared by Jason Young, Michelle Young, and their two year 138 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:11.879 old daughter, Cassidy. 139 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:16.920 Now what does Meredith's find when she pulls up there? 140 00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:21.639 Does she find anything unusual at the home? 141 00:08:21.680 --> 00:08:25.079 When she arrives, she finds several things that are unusual 142 00:08:25.079 --> 00:08:27.959 before she even enters the home. For one, at that 143 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:29.800 point in time, it was about an hour later, about 144 00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:33.279 one fifteen in the afternoon, and the lights at the 145 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:37.120 top of the brick pillars at the driveway edge were 146 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.639 still illuminated, which, being in the middle of the afternoon, 147 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:44.240 didn't make any sense. She noticed that the gate that 148 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:49.519 kept the backyard closed was open, which was odd because 149 00:08:49.679 --> 00:08:53.879 the Youngs had a black lab dog named mister Garrison, 150 00:08:53.919 --> 00:08:56.679 who was often allowed to roam free in the backyard 151 00:08:56.679 --> 00:09:00.559 and seeing that gate open was very unusual. So those 152 00:09:00.559 --> 00:09:02.840 are the first two things she noticed. She got to 153 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:07.440 the front door, and she heard mister Garrison inside whimpering, 154 00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:12.039 which seemed a little bit unusual. Unfortunately, she couldn't she 155 00:09:12.039 --> 00:09:14.399 didn't have a key. She thought she had a key, 156 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:17.480 but then she realized that she had let a friend 157 00:09:17.559 --> 00:09:21.639 borrow the key while she and Jason and Mary and 158 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:24.320 Michelle were in New York on a vacation a little 159 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:26.240 while earlier, so she didn't have a key to get in. 160 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:29.399 She eventually realized that the garage door was broken and 161 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:32.919 she was able to slip underneath the crack of the 162 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:35.480 garage door by pushing it up just enough to get 163 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:39.799 her body inside. And she noticed that Michelle's Lexus SUV 164 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:44.080 was inside of the garage, which also was very odd 165 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:46.799 because she should have been at work at Progress Energy 166 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:50.639 where she was a financial specialist in the accounting department. 167 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:53.600 So all those things were unusual before she even opened 168 00:09:53.639 --> 00:09:54.720 the door to enter the home. 169 00:09:57.519 --> 00:10:05.240 Now once she editors, she has any suspicions whatsoever despite 170 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:08.720 having seen these unusual things, What is their mindset as 171 00:10:08.759 --> 00:10:10.519 she walks into this home? 172 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:15.480 Well, her mindset is there's a lot that's unusual, but 173 00:10:15.799 --> 00:10:19.440 she wasn't able to piece together or anything until she 174 00:10:19.559 --> 00:10:22.559 got upstairs, and then it all became very clear. But 175 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:26.960 she walks into the home through the unlocked door leading 176 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:29.600 from the garage into the kitchen, and she notices that 177 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:34.080 Michelle's purse is lying on the floor against a leg 178 00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:37.919 of a small desk, which suggests to her that Michelle 179 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:42.000 must be in the house, and she starts crying out Michelle, Michelle, 180 00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:45.960 and there's no response, and then she proceeds up the 181 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:51.120 front stairway and gets to the top of the staircase, 182 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:54.600 and out of her peripheral vision on her right, she 183 00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:58.480 sees Cassidy's bathroom, and she noticed she notices that there 184 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:03.320 are footprints on City's bathroom floor, and then she looks 185 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:05.759 at the landing just at the top of the staircase 186 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:10.039 and notices that there are similar footprints on the carpeting 187 00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:14.440 on the landing, and those footprints, she realizes that are 188 00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:18.399 actually in the color red, are just large enough to 189 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:21.000 be a toddler's set of footprints, and so they were 190 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:26.279 clearly Cassidy's footprints. But even then she's thinking the Cassidy 191 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:30.720 must have gotten into Michelle's red hair dye, and she's 192 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:34.759 thinking Michelle must be pissed, so she doesn't clewe in 193 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:38.639 at that point that those footprints were made in blood. 194 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:43.799 She then turns to the left to face the master 195 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:46.879 bedroom and she takes a few steps to the entranceway 196 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:50.799 of the master bedroom, and then she sees, in addition 197 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:54.840 to red streaks on the walls and red spots on 198 00:11:54.919 --> 00:11:58.480 the walls and on the bed, she sees in between 199 00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:00.720 the bed, on the far side of the bed and 200 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:05.360 some closet doors, she sees her sister's lifeless body lying 201 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:09.600 on the floor soaked in blood. And that's when she 202 00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:12.639 realized that her sister has been attacked, and she immediately 203 00:12:12.679 --> 00:12:15.600 goes to the phone to call nine to one one. 204 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:19.919 You talk about her sister, Michelle laying face down in 205 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:24.240 this now realizes Meredith realizes as a pool of blood. 206 00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:29.200 You say, while she's looking in horror and shock at 207 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:34.960 her lifeless sister's body, there's a rustling under the covers. 208 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:37.559 That's exactly right. So right about the same time, she 209 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:40.120 punches in the numbers nine to one one at the 210 00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:43.159 near side of the bed, which is actually Jason's side, 211 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.279 of the bed. There's a rustling under the covers, and 212 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:50.639 then the covers are pulled down and they're staring at her. 213 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:55.720 Is her two and a half year old niece, Cassidy, unharmed, 214 00:12:56.639 --> 00:12:59.720 and Cassidy looks at her. She looks back at Cassidy, 215 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:04.000 and Cassidy leaps forward to her and clings to her 216 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:08.399 hip like a koala bear. While Meredth proceeds to begin 217 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:11.080 the conversation with a nine to one to one dispatcher. 218 00:13:12.279 --> 00:13:19.080 Right nine to one run a procedure, they ask a 219 00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:22.559 lot of questions of Meredith. What are some of the 220 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:28.200 questions they ask her immediately? Initially, well, they asked her 221 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:31.799 whether what had happened, and Mareth said she didn't know 222 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:36.039 whether her sister had a pulse. And Mereth also didn't 223 00:13:36.080 --> 00:13:38.840 know because she actually had never checked to see if 224 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:41.279 she had a pulse. She had never actually gone up 225 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:45.600 and touched her sister's body. So at that point she's 226 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:48.279 directed to do those things. And when she touches her 227 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:52.600 sister's body, it's cold, and she reports that she's eventually 228 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:55.600 instructed to try and turn her sister's body over so 229 00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:57.519 that she stays up so that she can try to 230 00:13:57.559 --> 00:14:04.720 perform CPR, and she basically tells the dispatcher her body 231 00:14:04.759 --> 00:14:08.399 is so twisted and it's so heavy, she can't do that. 232 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:11.600 And then she also says her body is ice cold, 233 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:15.039 it's stiff, suggesting that ray mortis has set in, And 234 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:19.480 at that point the dispatcher basically gives her permission to 235 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:22.399 cease any further life saving efforts because it's very clear 236 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:24.639 that Michelle is dead and has been dead for some 237 00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:32.159 time now. You talk about the circumstances the Michelle investigators 238 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:35.440 immediately find out that she is four and a half 239 00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:39.600 months pregnant with this baby boy that they've already named Rylan, 240 00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:44.279 and also that we talked about, You talked about the 241 00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:49.200 third anniversary and where Jason was at this particular time 242 00:14:49.360 --> 00:14:52.960 when this nine one one call was made. Tell us 243 00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:57.639 what investigators find at the crime scene in terms of 244 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:01.720 forced or non worst entry. Tell us what are the 245 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:04.720 some of the things that they deduce from that crime scene. 246 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:09.879 Initially, Initially there were no signs at all of any 247 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:15.759 forced entry. The only blood found in the house was 248 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.320 on the top level, and I've already described blood in 249 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:21.759 Cassidy's bathroom, and there was also not only blood on 250 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:23.519 the floor of a bathroom. There was blood smears all 251 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:27.120 over the walls of her bathroom, very clear that she 252 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:32.000 had played in her mother's blood. There were streaks and 253 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:34.679 smears at a very low height on the walls, including 254 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:39.720 behind the door of Cassidy's bathroom. There was a baby 255 00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:44.519 doll that was set out next to Michelle's head in 256 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:48.279 the master bedroom that Cassidy had clearly placed there, and 257 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:51.840 there were some of Cassidy's footprints there right around Michelle's head. 258 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:55.200 So they found all of those things. But downstairs, the 259 00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:58.320 only blood that was visible was on the door knob 260 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:01.399 of that same kitchen door that Mariith had entered from. 261 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:03.879 On the reverse side, the kitchen side, there were a 262 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:07.120 couple of small drops of blood there. All that blood 263 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:11.200 was eventually determined to be blood from Michelle. No one 264 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:15.320 else's blood was found at the crime scene. The blood 265 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:18.320 spatter went as high as the ceiling in the bedroom. 266 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.000 It was very clear that there was a beating that 267 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:25.000 was inflicted upon Michelle. When you looked at her face, 268 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:27.200 you saw that her teeth had been knocked out, her 269 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:32.159 lips were cut badly, her jawbone was actually protruding through 270 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:35.200 her skin. On her face. It was very clear that 271 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:38.600 her head had been beaten either with a blunt object 272 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:43.639 or with a strongly with a fist many many times 273 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:47.799 she was dressed. There was no indication of any type 274 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:51.200 of a sexual assault. The only thing missing from the 275 00:16:51.240 --> 00:16:54.879 bedroom there were two drawers in a jewelry box out 276 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:57.240 of a total of three that were not there. They 277 00:16:57.279 --> 00:17:01.320 were missing. And then Michelle's wetting and engagement rings that 278 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:05.720 supposedly she always had worn were also missing from the 279 00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:08.559 ring finger of her left hand. Those were the only 280 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:10.960 things that appeared to be missing from the house. There 281 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:14.000 did not appear to be a robbery of any kind 282 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:14.319 at all. 283 00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:21.079 Now you talk about the investigators and the initially or 284 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:25.279 assigned to this case, and then the medical examiner trying 285 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:28.279 to determine the time of death to be more accurately 286 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:33.279 pinpoint when she was killed in actuality. Now investigators have 287 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:38.119 to find out and determine about Jason's whereabouts during this time. 288 00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:42.519 Tell us about their efforts to contact him. How is 289 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:47.200 Jason first notified about the death of Michelle, what is 290 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:50.559 his reaction? Tell us those circumstances, and then tell us 291 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:56.000 his reaction to finding out about that. Police are interested 292 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:59.039 in questioning him talking to him. 293 00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:03.079 Sure, So Jason was on a business trip, there's no 294 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:08.160 dispute about that. Jason went. He had a business meeting 295 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:10.920 that was supposed to take place at ten o'clock on 296 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:15.799 November three in clint Wood, Virginia. He was selling electronic 297 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:21.519 medical software, electronic medical records software. That was a big 298 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:26.359 thing that Barack Obama's president was pushing, was getting physicians 299 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:30.039 and hospitals to convert paper records into electronic records. And 300 00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:33.240 he was selling software that would allow hospitals and doctor's 301 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:35.759 offices to do just that. He had just started this 302 00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:38.799 company called chart One, and he had a meeting at 303 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:43.480 a regional hospital in clint Wood, Virginia the morning of 304 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:46.359 the third. So he had decided he was going to 305 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:48.720 leave home on the second to break his trip into 306 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:51.000 two legs, and he was going to stay at a 307 00:18:51.079 --> 00:18:55.079 Hampton End hotel in Hillsville, Virginia, which is kind of 308 00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:59.559 in the western mountains of Virginia, before heading almost to 309 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:02.200 the Kentuck Key bordered to Clintwood the next morning for 310 00:19:02.279 --> 00:19:06.839 his sales meeting. So that's what he did. He went 311 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:09.680 and had this sales meeting. He was apparently about thirty 312 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:11.640 minutes late to the meeting. It didn't go well. They 313 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:15.839 didn't buy the software, and then he drove south through Asheville, 314 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:21.720 North Carolina, another hour to his home in Brevard, North Carolina, 315 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:24.039 which is where he grew up, and he was going 316 00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:27.599 to spend the night there with his mother and his stepfather. 317 00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:32.319 He pulls up to the curb and he gets out 318 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:36.440 of his car, which was a Ford Explorer. He slings 319 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:39.640 his suit jacket over his shoulder and he starts walking 320 00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:42.799 up to the front door, and he notices that his mother, 321 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:45.920 Pat and his stepfather Gerald are standing on the front 322 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:50.400 lawn and they have very worried, anxious looks on their faces. 323 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:53.319 And he walks up to them and he says, what's wrong? 324 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:54.039 Is it? 325 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:59.119 Grandma? And Gerald, his stepfather, looks at him and he says, no, Jason, 326 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:04.039 it's Michelle. Michelle is dead. And Jason's immediate reaction, according 327 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:06.599 to both his mother and his stepfather, was that he 328 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:11.079 fell to his knees and he started sobbing immediately, and 329 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:13.799 they basically had to catch him before he did a 330 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:16.440 face plant into the ground. They brought him into the 331 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:21.240 house where he was sobbing uncontrollably, and eventually later that 332 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:24.599 day they make the decision to head back to Raleigh, 333 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:28.920 which is some five hours away east, five hours east 334 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:31.759 all across North Carolina, and they drive and along the way, 335 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:34.960 Pat is in the back seat with her son, Jason, 336 00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.559 and she's receiving calls here and there, and one of 337 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:40.200 them is from law enforcement indicating that they want to 338 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:45.720 speak with Jason. And when Jason arrives at his sister 339 00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:51.839 in law's house, Meredith's house, law enforcement seizes his Ford Explorer, 340 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:55.680 and he receives several more requests to meet with law enforcement. 341 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:58.400 Jason says he's not going to do that, that he's 342 00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:00.920 already had contact with a lawyers one, that he's going 343 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:02.599 to meet with a lawyer first, and he's not going 344 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:05.599 to have any communications with law enforcement until he's done that. 345 00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:07.079 And so that's how that started. 346 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:13.319 When you say that Meredith is very close with Michelle 347 00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:18.200 and very close to Jason, so much so that she 348 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:23.119 has been agreed to be the nanny for their child, 349 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:28.079 So there is a closeness in the relationship. When Meredith 350 00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:31.839 discovered or found out or heard that Jason was not 351 00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:35.160 going to answer any questions from police, did she think 352 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:38.519 she was of exception and that he would talk to her, 353 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:42.599 he would speak to her. Did she naturally believe that 354 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:45.000 he would say something to her regarding this. 355 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.359 I don't think that's clear. I don't get that much 356 00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:54.079 into Mareth's mindset. So the information that I had for 357 00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:56.759 this book in my research did not come directly from 358 00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:00.599 the participants, from the family members. It came from the 359 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:04.880 trials where they testified about these sorts of things, and 360 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:09.240 both through their testimony that I watched on video footage 361 00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:12.079 and transcripts that I read, I was able to glean 362 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.359 certain things. That's not something that I was able to glean. 363 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:18.440 But what I can tell you is that Michelle already started, 364 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:22.400 I'm sorry, Meredith already started suspecting something about Jason that 365 00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:26.119 very night that he came to the house, because they 366 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.240 went to the back porch and Meredith was encouraging him 367 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:32.799 to try to speak with the police, and he was refusing, 368 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:36.680 and at one point he hugged her on the back deck, 369 00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:41.599 just lamenting what had happened, and he, in her view, 370 00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:45.680 was basically fake crying that there was something that didn't 371 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:48.240 seem genuine about the way that he was crying. That 372 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:51.160 made her suspicious on that very night, so she was 373 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:56.440 suspicious right away that Jason might have been involved in 374 00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:57.279 Michelle's murder. 375 00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:03.319 Right now, as you do, you talk about Michelle Marie Fisher, 376 00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:08.319 and she was born in Saville, Suffolk County, Long Island, 377 00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:12.240 and her dad Alan and her mother Linda, and Linda's 378 00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:16.599 quite important character in this story certainly tell us about 379 00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:22.880 her life growing up and then how eventually she was 380 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:24.200 to meet Jason Young. 381 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:28.279 Michelle grew up in Long Island, as I mentioned earlier, 382 00:23:28.279 --> 00:23:31.039 as did I, she grew up. She was about ten 383 00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:34.799 years younger than me, and she graduated from Sable High 384 00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:38.319 School in nineteen ninety five. By all accounts, she was 385 00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:46.359 an energetic, vivacious, just full of life teenager. She cheered 386 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:49.960 because her mother was the cheering coach at Savile Junior 387 00:23:50.039 --> 00:23:53.160 High School, so she was cheering in junior high school, 388 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:54.839 and then she was cheering in high school as well, 389 00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:57.720 and eventually was the co captain of the cheerleading team 390 00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:00.400 and they won. They were co champions. I think of 391 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:04.440 of all of Long Island as a cheer team. She 392 00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:07.319 actually when she went to m C State, she was 393 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:09.400 on the cheering squad at m c State as well. 394 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:14.920 She made straight a's throughout high school. She made basically 395 00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:18.240 straight a's throughout college. She was an incredibly gifted student. 396 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:24.000 She made friends extremely easily, and she was a very 397 00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:27.039 pretty woman and had a smile, as people would say, 398 00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:32.960 that would light up a room. Her demeanor was such 399 00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:36.160 that people wanted to be around her, and people enjoyed her. 400 00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:40.039 She formed friends that lasted a lifetime, several of them 401 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:45.160