Speaker 1: He just comes off the gun. He's down here and
he comes off the gun. He says, this maybe the
one time I outshot you. He looks at me said
I said, well, hell, let's go down range. I'm Ryan
Gresham and this this is gun Talk Nation. All right,
welcome into gun Talk Nation.
Speaker 2: This Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by Smith
and Wesson called Well, Range, Ready and Colt. Today on
the show, we've got Kevin Jarn again, We've got Chris
Serno team gun Talk.
Speaker 1: So we all actually we.
Speaker 2: Don't work remote remote working.
Speaker 1: It blows.
Speaker 2: Also say it has his pros and cons and it
also has his cons.
Speaker 1: It has a lot of cons.
Speaker 2: So we're in the office. We've got a shooting range
here on site. You guys have been I'm gonna say,
I'm gonna say a four letter word that starts with
f fiddle farting, Yes, with a gun.
Speaker 1: That's a four letter word.
Speaker 2: I'm counting them up in my head, goes, I'm counting
at least.
Speaker 1: Six or seven. Yeah. Yeah, we tool around with a
lot of guns.
Speaker 2: Sign But you guys have been fiddle with a gun
for I feel like a few weeks, and I like
drive in and out of the parking lot, like they're
over there again.
Speaker 1: What if you're doing what are they doing with the
never know what they're doing? Never know? God, he doesn't.
It's the same gun.
Speaker 3: It is the same gun we're going to talk about,
and it's Chris's gun.
Speaker 2: Chasing accuracy and barrels and whatnot.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean we do that with a lot
of different guns. We've done it with with uh, you know,
every kind of gun that we shoot out here. Of course,
this this story is going to be about bold actions.
But there's a lot of factors that go into what happened.
Speaker 2: So we'll start from the beginning.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is it there? What is accuracy? Well, what
is actually what's the expectation?
Speaker 2: And yes, a lot of factors go into accuracy, because
when it comes to guns, you'd be like.
Speaker 1: Is it accurate?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean are you accurate?
Speaker 3: Sorry?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Do your guns shoot low and left?
Speaker 4: That's every single person. That's every single person because we
look at groups on on instagrams and on the socials
and it's like, is that you is that.
Speaker 1: A one time group?
Speaker 3: Because I know there's a lot of shooters. Shooters. I'm
gonna use Chris saying.
Speaker 1: I'm a shooter. I'm a shooter shoot just charged firearms.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of groups that I question out there.
And because I because I have seen the people shoot
in real.
Speaker 2: Life, I r L it's basketball trick shots. Okay, look
at this amazing trick shot. I mean it is amazing.
It took you three days, eight hours a day to
make that ball go in that hole.
Speaker 1: Yeah, go for b Yeah.
Speaker 2: So like, yes, it was accomplished, but can you do
it on command? And we're going off on a tangent.
Speaker 4: But that's not a tangent. That is, we are answering
the question what is accurate? What is your accuracy? I
guess that's really what it comes down to with us.
And the story of this gun.
Speaker 1: Had us wondering if we could even shoot. I had
no clue, So what is so?
Speaker 2: So if somebody is out there, and there's probably we
have various folks. We have a fella who has a
rifle and you know, shoots minute of deer and that's good.
And I killed stuff mostly like my buddy's range, you know,
I mean, I mean it's pretty good. I mean it's
shooting four or five six inch groups at one hundred
I'm like, uh, okay, He's like that's big enough, that's
good enough to kill a deer. I'm like, I know,
but that's really not that's not acct from the gun.
And and he's he's or to it, so probably he
is a factor in that. And like what should someone expect?
Speaker 1: And this is why, because.
Speaker 2: What was this gun was doing, A lot of people
would have been like cool done.
Speaker 3: They wouldn't have known.
Speaker 4: They wouldn't have known until they got out in the field,
Like they wouldn't give you.
Speaker 2: Guys, kind of maybe some parameters of like what perhaps
you should expect. There's not one answer, because anytime someone
says this is the answer, that's usually bs're.
Speaker 3: Your antenna's better start going up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, what should the expectations be?
Speaker 2: Probably different for different types of guns against gun, a
bolt gun, a lever gun could be different expectations there, right, So.
Speaker 1: I don't know, yeah, I mean sometimes.
Speaker 4: So our expectations of accuracy have have really progressed over
the past i'd say ten years. You so you talk
about a bolt gun like this, let's just say out
of the box, Remington's seven hundred. You're looking man one
moa like it's an inch gun, Like.
Speaker 1: If you can shoot an inch inch and a half.
Speaker 2: If you go back twenty five years really close, it
was a inch and a half two inch, right, gun
was like, yeah, so accurate, our kill everything.
Speaker 4: Our standards, our standards, and I think a lot of
attributes to what gun manufacturers are really getting out there today,
like we've changed we are. I mean around this office,
I feel like we are accuracy snobs.
Speaker 1: Oh sure, you shoot everything.
Speaker 2: And so part of the reason why we're talking about
accuracies so much and maybe having a higher standard is
because we're doing different things. So, yes, if you hunt
in the thick woods and the longest shot you have
is one hundred yards, if it's a three inch gun,
you can kind of get away with a lot.
Speaker 1: Killed a lot of deer with rifled slugs out of
smooth board shotguns. I lived in Ohio, right, And I
mean they were anywhere from point bow range to one
hundred and twenty five and fifty right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean it's fine, and and if somebody
says that's good enough for me and I have no problems. Cool.
But now we're kind of entering the world of precision
rifle shooting, right, and precision doesn't only mean accurate. What
we're really talking about is precision at range, at a
longer range. So a one gun is a ten inch
gun at one thousand yards.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's one m away.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So if we're starting out and a gun is shooting
quote unquote wild because it's shooting three inch groups, that's
a thirty inch group of one thousand yards, You guys
are getting into the prs in our NRL NRL longer,
longer range rifle matches and stuff. And that's where this
story sort of perhaps starts.
Speaker 4: Yes, my question, my question to you, Ryan is what
what's what's your accuracy and a bolt gun? What do
you expect out of a gun that you pick up
off the shelf?
Speaker 1: What should you expect? What should a guy listening to this.
Speaker 2: A shelf gun is probably should be shooting an inch
group at one hundred yards off the shelf, not some
crazy custom thing.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, go ahead, because here's what I'm gonna say,
because I haven't said much yet. Let's remember this a
paster that you put on a bullet hole on a
target as a one inch paster, Right, that's a that's
really good. I'mall okay, if I just went and bought
a gun and then bought Ammo just any amo, and gosh,
this is forty two dollars for twenty and this is
twenty seven for twenty and I went with the forty
two or the twenty seven because either one could be wrong, right,
I may not shoot that inch. Well we're here's yeah, there,
there's we're going to get there. We're going to get there.
But let's also remember that we've had we've shot and
then you guys go on. We've shot some really cool
rifles on this range. We've shot rifles from from Seekins
and Christensen and c Z. Yeah, we've shot. We shot
the new Bonelli LOOPO. Yes, twenty seven, not three thousands,
don't say three thousand. Well in general that category of gun.
So we shot that that CZ and I was literally
able to shoot flies off a target with it. Okay,
unheard of, but they can do it. I could do it,
the gun could do it. Then we shot the LOOPO.
We shot the LOOPO, and we're like, okay, this is
a this is a bold action gun that comes over
the counter and literally shooting dimes like stacking half inch.
Speaker 3: That's a half inch gun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so then you're thinking, Okay, now we're building
this custom gun. We're building something.
Speaker 3: Should it be an eighth inch gun?
Speaker 1: It should be, it should be amazing. Right, So now
you guys can carry on with your things.
Speaker 2: Okay saying it because it's not I'm sorry, I'm sorry,
But the answer is not as simple as it should
shoot a one inch because it depends, is the answer.
Because you can an off the shelf gun even even
under one thousand dollars guns Ruger expectations, Sugar American Gen two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're very good guns. Savage has been very good guns.
Speaker 2: And these are these are five hundred dollars six hundred
dollars guns or whatever somewhere in that ballpark.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the access to.
Speaker 1: We can we can do that and we know how
to do it.
Speaker 5: But it depends on the AMMO, right, because we have
we have a whole room full of different bullets and
we'll say, wow, this is not good.
Speaker 1: Yeah we change this is a like here's lesson number one.
Speaker 2: Okay, you probably say it before growing You got to
try different AMMO to see what the gun likes.
Speaker 1: Is that true or false? True?
Speaker 3: That's frustrating, but it is true. Okay, why can't a
gun just shoot?
Speaker 4: Why can't? Why are we? Why are we in an
age right now? Where Oh no, you got to try this,
Ammo owner, You've got to You got to buy six
different boxes of Ammo to find out what gun.
Speaker 2: This like, because cag because you're picky, because you want accuracy, picky.
Speaker 1: You could shoot.
Speaker 2: You could grab any box of AMMO and put it
in let's say the Ruger American gin too, and it'll
be good, even like.
Speaker 1: The worst Ammo.
Speaker 2: It'll probably be less than a two inch group, yes, right, probably.
Speaker 1: I problem is grain weights problem. That's where the weight
come in. You start talking about grains. Well, we know
that the six I was built kind of around the
one forty, so the one forties kind of everybody's favorite.
But then they change things. But there's a one forty
three Kevin ways the one forty three do better, So
maybe it does all right, So, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: We have a gun sitting on the table here. If
you're listening to this, you're not watching it. You might
go over to YouTube or our website or whatever to
see this. But the gun we're gonna be talking about
is sitting on the table. It's really cool looking and
on the front of the gun is taped a little
bitty card with a little ragged hole.
Speaker 1: That is the group. Finally, the final Yeah, and I
didn't shoot it.
Speaker 2: So walk us through the story after the break from Caldwell.
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at cult dot com. All right, a ton of build up,
but let's get into the story of lessons learned and
chasing this gun and accuracy of swapping out barrels.
Speaker 4: I love your title of chasing accuracy because.
Speaker 3: We always tend to do that. I think we are always.
Speaker 4: Looking how can it be better? What can we do?
What can we do more? And that's what Chris did.
So I approached Chris and I said, hey, why don't
we go shoot a team NRL match me and you.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be awesome. He goes, I've got the perfect gun.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's Kj's fault. No, it's my fault, chase fault.
Speaker 3: It is all.
Speaker 1: It was a great gun when it was a three
oh eight, but it was at.
Speaker 4: Three oh eight and you did not want to shoot
an NRL Hunter match with a three oh eight and
tell people why, Well, is the standard on interl circuits
right now. Six Why speed kills man like, and it's
a little tiny bullet, lower drag, less wind.
Speaker 2: Well like, it's not necessarily a shooting not flaster flatter,
a little little.
Speaker 1: It shoots a lot, but not a lot, not a
lot flatter.
Speaker 3: It's that BC.
Speaker 1: It's the BC. It doesn't have. It has a lot.
Speaker 2: It has significantly less wind drift than a threeh eight
because it's a longer bullet.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know down here south where we're shooting
this match, there's probably not going to be as much win.
So a threeh eight you can absolutely do that. With
a three O eight you can you can do these
matches with three o A. I'm not trying to discard
the three eight three eight is here. We're not replacing it.
Speaker 1: Great man. It kills a lot of stuff, but it
is takes a lot of effort to shoot it. Because
I shot PRS for a long time with three eights
and everybody that was shooting other calibers magnum caliber seven
seven wisdoms, you know seven mags three shooting on a
match with a seven.
Speaker 2: Well maybe that was years ago. We're seeing a lot
of years ago, but we're seeing now.
Speaker 1: Right, were shooting flatter, they're shooting fast, right, Well that
was the thing to win, like magnum, go faster.
Speaker 2: But now what we find is bullets that buck the
wind because they're long. They're longer bullets for the size,
but also you're having less recoil, so they're able to
stay into the gun, stay in the scope, call your shot,
call the wind.
Speaker 4: All those things, right, you're taking in all those variables,
and it's a game.
Speaker 1: That's why I think it's a game. Seven man, like ridiculous,
you can't stop. We changed we were going to change
this barrel out and we had one on hand because
we had done some stuff. We get some prototype barrels.
Speaker 2: We get prototypes in we have stuff laying around. So
we got this prototype barrel and it looked good.
Speaker 1: It was from Blistic. Beautiful barrel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was beautiful, and it was a barrel blank.
Speaker 1: There's a barrel blank. It was a perfect blank for
a six ' five. And we have, of course Todd
at Maniaco Firearms. Yeah, and Todd said, yeah, man, I'll
do it. We'll change it out and it's going to
be great. And I said I wanted twenty inches and
he said, I was crazy, but you know I wanted
twenty inches because I'm stupid. Yeah, it's a six to five.
It needs a lot more. But so we did it
and we brought it back home.
Speaker 4: And so when a gun leaves Todd Shop, I mean
he sends.
Speaker 3: You a picture of the group he shoots. He did,
and what was that group?
Speaker 1: It was pretty rady. It was probably an inch and
a half. I would say it was an inch and
a half, maybe two. I wish we still had it
at that picture. But he said, man, it's probably going
to settle down. It just needs to be shot a bit.
Speaker 4: Like when he's talking a bit, he's thinking like forty
sixty rounds type settling in which that is that's a lot.
I mean, you're you're talking about time, money and effort
trying to break something in which that's fine.
Speaker 1: Maybe yeah something like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, but like that's still eighty bucks.
Speaker 1: Eighty bucks on top of it would have cost sure
if I had to buy the barrel. Sure it would
have been so you know, eight hundred bucks.
Speaker 2: So you and that's that brings us to barrel break
in perhaps, but.
Speaker 3: That's a whole other can of worms.
Speaker 2: So you took the gun the new barrel out and
what happened.
Speaker 1: Well, we shot it and I couldn't shoot it really well.
So I made kJ shoot it because you know, even
though kJ doesn't generally shoot as good as me, No,
we all have good days and bad days. And kJ
shot it and he was sucking. And so then we
kept shooting it more and more and they started getting
really wild. Well, six inches out, it didn't settle in. No,
it wasn't getting even close.
Speaker 4: And I was like, well is it It's not heated
up because we hadn't run that many rounds through. So
then we start okay with the AMMO, we start just
put different We started chanting jam and that was our
first step to chase this accuracy.
Speaker 1: And it's a six y five. It should have just
shot horn ay one forties right off the bed.
Speaker 3: Anyway, that's fair. That's a good stand. It's a good
standard to have.
Speaker 1: So you said, it was like, what was it doing?
Speaker 2: It was inconsistent or it just kept getting wilder.
Speaker 1: It was consistently inconsistent. Yeah, it would like you shoot
too through the same hole and it shoot one four
inches out, and then it put another one in the
same hold, and it put one six inches out somewhere else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and obviously people who know guns are listening to
this one.
Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like your scope is loose or your
loose Okay, that was so so, So we sat on
it for a couple of weeks. We said, we'll take
it out again and we'll give it a try. So
we did.
Speaker 2: You checked the scope, We checked it, We checked everything,
everything right, and and we we we took we took
the expressor off, we did everything.
Speaker 1: We took it back out, we shot it again. And
this is when we said, well, maybe the scope's bad.
I mean it's a loophold scope. Okay, it's a Mark
six six eight.
Speaker 3: It is older.
Speaker 1: Cool shorty in that scope has been around the country
with me on a couple of different guns throughout my years,
and so anything can happen. Because kJ we had one
go bad. Scope's just everyone's smallly go bad. That's why
you send them back. I mean I had I had
a Tragy coon go bad the other day. That's a
high high, big name brand. Yeah, and I sent it
back and new quality.
Speaker 3: Well and in part.
Speaker 2: Of anything, anything can break, yes, Well, and that was
his car.
Speaker 1: You know, you still have to get This part of.
Speaker 4: My issue too, was I had just had a loophole
Mark five go totally wrong. I mean we're talking like
six feet off, like I would shoot one and it
would hit the target and then shoot another. That was
another instance where I was like, Chris, you need to
come shoot this because maybe I'm just having an off day.
Did the exact same thing if not, I shot twice
and you guys are still you're not I'm I'm asking.
I guess you're not saying there's a problem with loophold scopes.
Speaker 1: No, I was just saying that that one.
Speaker 3: It just I don't know.
Speaker 4: I sent it in and they're gonna send me like
a refer right back, like whatever that was.
Speaker 3: Wrong with it something. You know, these guns get beat around.
We don't. These aren't safe queen guns.
Speaker 1: That where we used scope too. We put that on
more guns for more tv YEA, more more tests, range
tests than any scope that's been back in our cash
of things.
Speaker 4: It's been pulled off so many times and thrown in
the safe and everywhere else.
Speaker 3: But so aside from the scopes, like okay, so all
of them can go wrong.
Speaker 1: So we changed out. So that day we took this
scope which has been in those rings for fifteen years.
We took it apart so not to throw salt in
the wound.
Speaker 3: But oh, you're just throw it.
Speaker 1: How did this.
Speaker 2: Gun shoot before you started fiddling with it?
Speaker 1: Was a Remington standard, Remington PSR or spr whatever, it was,
special police rifle, special purpose rifle. Its shot three oh
eight one SI eight fed match like dimes, you know,
so its shocked.
Speaker 3: It was fine.
Speaker 1: It was going back to its kj's fault. Maybe. Yes,
I built this gone a long time ago. I mean
it was a Remington action, Remington barrel. But I did
the bolt handle, I did the bottom metal, I betted it.
I did all that stuff, got the McMillan stock, I
did all very rifle badger rail on top. You know,
that's all good stuff. And then so we changed the
scope out.
Speaker 3: And kJ said, hey, come to a match.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we changed out the scope. We put another
really good scope on it, and it shot exactly the same.
Speaker 2: Kind of like two touching young than one wide.
Speaker 1: Wild, I mean exact.
Speaker 2: It was so you guys, you were really going through
all the variables scope, scope, rings, bases, AMO, different different
types of AMMO, all of that.
Speaker 1: I mean, we spent we spent a lot of time.
We wasted a lot of time. So then, but we
didn't waste any time.
Speaker 3: We wasted zero time with this gun.
Speaker 4: Because how else do we sit here and deliver on
like a cautionary tale and what to look for if
we're not doing this stuff.
Speaker 1: You undred percent right, because someone has to do it.
Are This is This is what makes a great gun writer.
This is what makes a great gun smith. This is
what makes people like us more knowledgeable because we are
we are afforded the luxury to be able to do
these kinds of things.
Speaker 2: And most people they have a few guns, or maybe
you're listening to this, maybe you got a bunch. We won't tell,
but you know you don't play with all of the
guns and all of our scopes and all of the
ammon we do. And I'm only saying that to like
to kind of back up what you're saying is, these
are experiences and lessons learned, and we're trying to kind
of like pass this along and we were this all
this podcast came from you guys were This morning I
go into the gun room and you guys are beaming
because you're just like we did it.
Speaker 1: We did it. It's so look at this group. It's
that group. It's so funny.
Speaker 2: Gun people are so funny, right, dude, look at this
paper with holes in it.
Speaker 1: Isn't this amazing? They put it on his wall.
Speaker 2: But so you did, and we didn't. We already kind
of told the secret, and this story is. You ended
up saying, Okay, I think it's this barrel that I
swapped out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so weird. So we took it back to Todd's.
I took it back. Yeah, I said, Todd, this thing
is a piece of crapence He said, this is a prototype.
But it's a prototype.
Speaker 4: They don't offer that barrel on their website, like they
figured out something is wrong with these Probably we have
even told us that, right, Well, I just assumed since
they didn't launch him out.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, we get new stuffoon that ready. It's
not always ready.
Speaker 2: We get new stuff and you're like, oh, you get
to play with all the new stuff. Yeah, sometimes it's
not really. But there's stuff that guns or scopes or
accessories or am or whatever silencers that we've played with
here that we solve problems, and then sometimes because of us,
it's delayed in launching.
Speaker 3: Another year or taking off the book, taking off.
Speaker 2: The books, like and then it launches eventually and it's.
Speaker 1: Great and it's great. Yeah, but look, this is like.
Speaker 2: Product testing, you know, R and D. So yeah, I'm
we are calling it out that this was a ballistic
Danage barrel, but we're also trying to let you guys know,
like you can't go buy it, right, can go buy it?
So maybe it's Chris's fault don't put prototype barrels on your.
Speaker 1: Gun, but you never know. Sometimes they're really good.
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's awesome. Yeah, so you know a sidebar. Sometimes
side get new stuff in. It's awesome, it runs great,
and they still don't launch it for a few years
because they said, well, our engineers wanted to do more.
You want to I don't understand, Like it was great
for us.
Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, it's just not ready yet.
Speaker 4: And you're like, well was talk about like the RXm
ther RXm was a perfect example.
Speaker 1: Of that behind the scenes. All right, you guys haven't.
Speaker 2: Heard this story, yeh, Like it's the Rugards over in
June June.
Speaker 1: It's a long time ago.
Speaker 2: In that video that we launched that was eighty four
hundred round through one gun in one days, one gun
that was done in June. Yeah, and we're like, dude,
this is a sweet gun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was great back then.
Speaker 2: And they were like they're like, yeah, we're not launching
it yet.
Speaker 1: It's not ready. We're going, what do you mean? There's
nothing wrong with it.
Speaker 3: Nothing we had wrong with it.
Speaker 1: We didn't have one malfunction. We'd have one problem. We
were dunking that gun in water to cool it off.
Speaker 3: We were running it so much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it wasn't. Just a couple times there's ice
in that bucket. I was back there.
Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, like there's those times when you
I don't understand what's.
Speaker 3: Iron, but they want to make about it. They want
to make it good.
Speaker 2: You know, it could be a manufacturing thing of like,
well it's ready, but we need to make make sure
we can make it five hundred of them a day
or something.
Speaker 3: Who knows.
Speaker 2: But back to back to barrels. So you brought it
back to Todd's. You said, I think we got to
swap out the barrel.
Speaker 1: Oh where'd you go from there? So that was that
was on Friday last week.
Speaker 3: Friday last week, that was like, that was Monday, that was.
Speaker 1: That was Friday last week, because you shot it on
Sunday and I got it Monday evening.
Speaker 3: You were day six on Friday.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're right. It was Wednesday before I got six,
So it was Wednesday because I didn't come in Thursday
and Friday. I know, he's still I don't know. It
was my Friday, right, Does that make sense? Yes, it
was my Friday. It was my Friday. It was my Friday,
for God's sake, not to make today my Friday. Yeah,
I'm out here. Yeah, I got it. So I took
it in Wednesday, Friday. He got it done the bumper
sticker by Sunday. When I went and picked it up Monday,
he was still lasering it, putting the six five on
it and everything in the markings, and and uh he
had shot at Sunday, and he says, is this good enough?
And it was a group very very similar to what
we're looking at here on the table with one raggedy hole.
It's about it could be it could be three sixteens. Okay,
if you measured that from center to center and you
discounted the flyer, it'd be three sixteens.
Speaker 3: And we're we're talking a flyer, not not a fly
It cuts the hole.
Speaker 2: Well, there's a difference between a flyer when you shoot
and you shoot enough and you go, yeah, that wasn't
a when the when the gun went off, I wasn't
really where I wanted to be on my hold or
I did something goofy, you know it right, and you
know it when you shoot and it's six inches off
to one side, you're like, that was not me.
Speaker 1: I can tell you on I saw that one and
that was my third shot. Yeah, that's a half. That's
a half. Always face shot, and that's always when you
have a good group. Oh look at me, don't screw
it up. God see, I thought it would have been
a fifth shot. So Todd, we did the whole thing.
We could tell there was a difference right away. I
mean we so it just everything looks good, it feels good,
it fits good.
Speaker 3: What'd you switch it to?
Speaker 1: We switched to bart Line, Bartline, Bartlen whatever you guys
call it Bartline barrel And did you it cost me?
Speaker 2: And did Todd let you go twenty inches?
Speaker 1: Todd didn't let me go twenty inches. He's smart. He
put twenty two on it. Twenty two and we're still
only at twenty six hundred feet per second, which is
really a n emic for the six five six fifty
twenty six, fifteen, fifteen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's about it's about right.
Speaker 1: It's about what you're gonna get six.
Speaker 2: That's the thing people confuse well and the four ballistic
nerds and they're like, oh, I hear the six five
shoots flat, and I think they think that means it's
a magnum, that.
Speaker 1: It's like going fast three thousand. No, No, you're not
going to get that.
Speaker 2: And that's why people shoot it well, is because even
just backing off, it's not backing off, it's just what
it is. But not being at three thousand and being
at sixty five twenty six to fifty or whatever it is,
twenty six to fifteen, Yeah, you got it. Uh, it's
just comfortable to shoot. It's just that little bit. It's
about you know, like fifteen percent less ten.
Speaker 1: On the shoot. But let's before we go into all
the cool stuff that we we could talk about. Let's
just say that, so we took it out. Oh, the
scope was thrown on, everything was put back together, even
the rail was off because he seracoated everything. Because you know,
it's a stainless barrel. We screwed the suppressor on it.
I could tell right away the suppressor fit on, and
he just his work is just magnificent. It just fits
like two panes of glass coming together. We went out.
I shot five rounds. I shot my first one. I
made one movement. I shot four more and it was
probably three quarters of an inch. Okay, but you could
see every single ball at all. And I said, OKAYKJ,
I shot five. I'm satisfied. You know, I'm figuring it's
either going to settle in or it's whatever. It's good enough,
it's way better. So I give kJ a MAGA five.
kJ sits down and shoots.
Speaker 3: And we're talking the whole time like it's not like
it's real serious.
Speaker 1: We're just say wow or anything like that. He just
comes off the gun. He's down here and he comes
off the gun. He says, it's maybe the one time
I outshot you. And he looks at me, said, I said, well, hell,
let's go down range. When we went down range, that's
what we saw. And needless to say, that's ten rounds
through a brand new barrel that just got fitted within
five days. Yeah, Sarah coated put back together and damn,
I am excited to go shoot this match because I
was defeated. Because when you shoot a gun that doesn't
do what it can do, and you know you're a
good shooter, and I know there's good shooters out there,
you can get defeated and you start thinking, well, you know,
is it is it me? Is it the AMMO? Is
it the gun?
Speaker 3: Is it me?
Speaker 1: It's the bipod? And then and then what I'll do
is I'll start dry firing. I'm like, Okay, it looks
like I can press the trigger right and mister site
stay there right? And what's wrong with me?
Speaker 3: That's what it is.
Speaker 1: It messes with you.
Speaker 3: It's it's you think, what is wrong with me?
Speaker 4: And then all of a sudden you start not having
the same confidence in your own equipment, like in your
own gear and in other gear like that you normally
shoot really well.
Speaker 1: Like when I used to carry one handgun all the time,
when I was just a one gun guy man, I
was good with it and I was there was nothing
I wouldn't try to do with it. Now I shoot
so many guns, and I don't shoot my gun that
I carry so much anymore. And I don't I don't
feel like I'm the headshot king anymore. I feel more
like a shooting minute of man anymore, because it's like
I know I can hit that. I don't remember what
exactly I see or feel when I shoot this gun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, hey, here's this gun. It's not my gun,
It's just it's one of the guns we're shooting this week, or.
Speaker 1: Yeah, shoot it today.
Speaker 2: You know that Silencer Central makes it easy to buy silencers,
but they also have their whole line of banished suppressors,
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Speaker 1: This is a really cool ultra.
Speaker 2: Compact two two, three, five, five six dedicated silencer. Weighs
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doesn't change the weight and balance of the gun, and
also still very quiet. The Banish Speed k TI from
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Speaker 3: So I guess I guess my question would be, and
we were kind of talking about this off air, is
if you out shoot someone with their own gun, is
that gun now yours?
Speaker 1: And I'm pretty sure that's the rule.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's now your gun because I will, Tay, I
will take this gun all day long.
Speaker 1: And I've not kJ get excited about anything that I had.
This is the first time Kj's like, wow, man, that
is really sweet.
Speaker 3: He's got something.
Speaker 4: And I mean it's not it's not only because Todd,
you know, put his mark on it and put his
stamp on it. It's because the story like of having
like Chris built this gun originally, like did everything to it,
betted it, and he got a chance to like work
through issues in a different manner in which he normally does. Usually,
you know, you get a custom gun, you're just picking
out parts and you you trust that your gunsmith is
good enough.
Speaker 3: But like Chris had a hand in this, and I
think that's what's so special about it.
Speaker 2: So Todd, we kept mentioning that we may have said
at the beginning. But Todd Maniacal Firearms. He's in Covington, Louisiana.
He's kind of been become our go to gunsmith guy
because he's local to us. He does fantastic work. We
featured him on Billbox.
Speaker 1: He does rifle build people all over the country. Oh yeah, Yeah,
that box has really opened them up. He's got stuff
coming in constantly, and the guys are fanatics. When they
send they get them back. He's telling you, they get
their gun back and they're like, oh my god, this
thing is so amazing. I'm going to send you this next. Yeah.
They end up NonStop.
Speaker 3: They end up ordering more, which is it's incredition.
Speaker 2: It's like what we're talking about with this gun, it's special.
It's unique when he does that. When you guys what
I mean, heck, even somebody building their own gun at
their their bench at their house. Yeah, it's not an
off the rack thing. You've you've kind of selected one
that you want to be and you know it's one
of one. There's no other gun like that out there, but.
Speaker 3: You want you want that like custom experience, so you
you believe you can have that accuracy and if you're
putting it together yourself. It's going to be a lot
more difficult.
Speaker 1: True.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it just is like you wouldn't have
been able to switch all that over without No.
Speaker 1: I can't, I can't. I can't fit a barrel. But
I can tell you this the one if you want
to know what the my favorite thing on this gun
is my very most favorite part of this entire gun.
Speaker 3: Trigger or magazine, catch the action because it is a
fifteen to eighteen year old Remington seven hundred special purpose
rifle off the shelf that I bought.
Speaker 1: And is the one part of this gun that is
still original and it shoots like an amazing house of fire.
Speaker 4: Well, I guess, I mean, I guess that goes to
show because you look at all like there are a
number of custom action guys out there, companies out there
that are I mean, you're paying fourteen to sixteen hundred
dollars just for the action, like you're talking about like
a Defiance TI or an Impact. You know, you're looking
at some that whole like.
Speaker 1: Might have been five hundred bucks loan peak.
Speaker 3: I mean no, like yeah, And that's what's cool about
it is, I mean you can get stuff like this.
Speaker 1: I mean people have these all over the world in
their houses, in their closets.
Speaker 4: Is that the would you consider the Ruingtan seven hundred
action the most I mean prolific Oh yeah action boltgun
action out there?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3: Now it's pattern.
Speaker 2: What's funny is Remington Firearms is still in existence, but
it's it's it's very small from what it used to be.
It's they're not cranking out a very high number of guns.
But what's funny is it's it's there's two reasons why
you have all these companies like, oh, we have a
Remington seven hundred pattern action or whatever you prefit barrels
and stuff like that. One is because there's a ton
of aftermarket options for you, right, triggers in it, one
bottom metal, all the all the other stuff.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: But if it wasn't accurate, they wouldn't doing it.
Speaker 1: It is, that's right, it works. And we just shot
Joels today. Joel's going to shoot a match with us.
He's going to shoot the same match now, Joel. It
was unbuild Box. Yeah, he became our friend. So he's
still got the gun we built him for Buildbox. It
is the exact same rifle that this was, which is
a seven hundred special purpose rifle three oh eight, and
we shot it yesterday. Yeah, he was out here yesterday
and we were literally shooting dimes with FED match FED
gold medal match won sixty eighth. Yeah, and that's a
good point too.
Speaker 2: And it kind of it's kind of like the build
box thing. So you said there's probably hundreds and thousands,
not hundreds of thousands, but hundreds or thousands whatever of
these types of guns, these special purpose guns, which really
they were twenty inch sparrel guns.
Speaker 1: Three oh eight.
Speaker 2: They were the the l E sniper. Yes, designated over
mold stock, Yes, whole exactly. Then has a version, right,
I have that. Remington has a version. They're cool, they're great. However,
like a lot of people, if you probably if you
have that, you're probably a gun nerd like us. Yeah,
and it may be just sitting in the safe because
it's like I bought that.
Speaker 1: It was cool fifteen years ago. Yeah, because it was
in every police movie.
Speaker 2: But you show yeah, they're making you know, eighty seven
hard head shots. But you could give it new life
because that gun is not suited for what's popular right now.
As far as PRS NURL matchress. When you're shooting out
to how far?
Speaker 3: I mean you're going out to nine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's not really suited for that. So you
could give it new life by doing a barrel swap.
Speaker 3: You really could.
Speaker 1: And look at this isn't a chassis, but chassis are soxy.
This is so retro.
Speaker 4: So I do want we have not provided the listeners
and the people who are watching this. If you're not watching,
I'm sorry you don't get to see this beautiful gun.
But Chris, like, walk us through what's on this gun?
I mean, like, because it's not just a factory it's
a factory ring since had an interaction, but the stock
and you do a pressor what did you do to I.
Speaker 1: Originally started with the stock. I bought him at Millana
four and it took forever to get it, and it
was like five hundred bucks back then. And it is
molded it's called gap camo. This camo is actually molded
in so if you scratch it or ding it, it's
going to go as deep as the color all the
way to the center, which is cool. So then of
course I did a bolt handle on it. I bolt
that bolt knob off of brown els, and I thought
I can do this. So I sat in my garage
with a bench grinder and I grounded down and kept
measuring because it said you have to have this measurement
for this thread. So I did it and then I
threaded it and I screwed it on. Todd says, it's crooked,
but you know what, I did it and I love it.
It's got. So that's a Badger bolt. Now the Badger
twenty ma rail on top, which is all steel, which
is the best way to go, go all steel bolted
on lock tight it down. From there we go down
to the bottom metal on the bottom. It was a
hinge them, so it had a trapdoor on the bottom
where you had to dump the rounds out from there
and the need to shoot matches with that, and it
was difficult because you have to unload and before you move. Yeah,
so I would just dump it and if I caught
them all I caught him throw them in my bag.
But then I put on bottom metal. So I had
betted the stock and everything, and then later I added
the bottom metal and I did it with the current
betting and I still managed to get it in perfectly.
Whose bottom metals has that, Hawkins? This is Accuracy. Well
it was from Brownel's, but it's it came with the
Accuracy International magazine. So I don't know whose that is.
I wish I knew. I don't know the name brand,
but that was a gift from uh from uh roy Hill.
Royhill sent me that I and I did that while
I had cancer. I just took my time and it
came out perfect, said nothing but time. So then we
put the new thing. The newest hotness is this area
of four nineteen rail that goes all the way across,
which takes that old McMillan chat see and puts an
archie rail the full length. So now I have all that,
I can get my bipod way out on the end,
which is an MDT on top, I've got that Loophold
R six.
Speaker 2: This is a great for a what is this a
three to eighteen eighteen and that's a pretty short scope.
Speaker 1: I got that when I used to shoot for FN
because Loopholds was one of our sponsors, so I was
on my FN rifle for a lot a lot of years. Great,
it's been all over the country, it's had some good
times and on the end we've we've got it with
the old silencer central back country. That's my favorite Randard.
It's so quiet and it keeps the gun short and manageable.
And I didn't have any promise stand on target today,
did you? Oh no, pretty good, not at all. Well,
look at the group. Yeah, yeah, very cool.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, just thought we'd have you guys on
talk about chasing accuracy and help.
Speaker 1: Hopefully this is helpful. Don't get to feel.
Speaker 2: Like if you're like, it's also like, wait a minute,
maybe this gun that I've been shooting is shooting three
inch groups. It could the gun could be you could be,
but it could be better, and it could be better, right,
it could be better. Maybe you can't, Yeah, but you
can also call it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I guess my question is is when is
when do you call it quits?
Speaker 3: At what point?
Speaker 1: At what point? That depends on your personality.
Speaker 2: I'm more of like a that's good enough, let's just
leave it there. You know, excel spreadsheets of their training.
Are the ones who are going to be like, maybe
I can get a little bit more. I mean there
there kind of is at this point, there's there's a
limit to what you can do. I mean a still,
people will spout all.
Speaker 1: Kinds of nonsense online.
Speaker 2: But I mean a half inch gun is really phenomenal,
and if you have something doing less than that, you
probably should just say okay.
Speaker 4: Good, so good with what we're doing today in firearms
and what you're seeing come out right now is a
half inch? Should that be considered the new standard?
Speaker 2: I mean that just depends online if we don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah for MOUs you know we've seen that come from
lesser known Yeah, I'm Ruger at Ruger Ranch that I
shot with the two twenty three. Yeah, it's just shot.
Speaker 2: There's lots of variables to say, you know that it'll do.
Speaker 1: That, But it didn't shoot a dime with other ammo
and then I tried a different AMMO and then all
of a sudden it was like a dime. Yeah, stacking them.
So but see, you got to know that you can
do it first. You got to know what you're capable of.
So if you have if you have a friend, if
you have somebody that has guns like this, like me
and kJ we have we have luxuries like this. This
is great. But if you have a friend, you go
out and you shoot that gun.
Speaker 5: If they shoot it really really well, and you don't
shoot it really really well, like to them figure out
how to shoot it really really well, because once you
can start doing that, then you can say, man, I
can do this. So the next gun you pick up,
you're like, you know, I'm doing everything right here, or
maybe you'll up one in that chots really really well
and you'd be like, Wow, I didn't think I could
do that.
Speaker 2: But I mean, I think as far as like, should
we expect half accuracy if it's a if it's a
long range precision gun that costs three to five thousand dollars, Yeah, probably,
so yeah, something like that. If it's a six hundred
dollars hunting gun, that doesn't seem fair to me.
Speaker 1: Onea would be is great, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Because I mean we're kind of joking about the minute
of deer thing, but like, seriously, if it's a one
inch gun at one hundred, it really is a minute
of deer thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if it's it's so inch gun at one hundred,
it's a minute of deer. If it's a one inch
gun at one hundred, even even at sondred yards.
Speaker 4: So I do we did gloss over something with this
gun in the testing phase of it, and I know
we're running out of time. Probably, but we I sent
you a text message and I thought you were going
to bring it up, and you didn't, and I just
now thought of it. We would shoot when the other
barrel was on here. We would shoot, you know, five
shot groups, and they were okay, but then it got
wild after that, like so it looked like it shot
really well.
Speaker 1: But then you go, that's right, you said seven, eight, Yeah,
first three to five shots, you're like, right, okay.
Speaker 4: And that was great. So and then yes, when Todd
sent you the message will this work? And it was
a great group. My first thing was what were the
next five shots?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what were the next five shots? Like? And so
today we did shoot tenant consecutively and last time, I
mean the five wasn't anywhere close to this, No, I
mean they were. They were an inch and a half
too anyways. But that's why that's when it started slinging them.
Speaker 4: That's when it's a cautionary tale of like, are you
the three shot group guy? When you're going out hunting
and going, oh, yeah, that's good enough. Well what what
happens after that?
Speaker 2: It's good enough for you? If you're going to take
this to a march, You guys are going to shoot
what und.
Speaker 4: One hundred rounds for sure? So well, hopefully not one
hundred rounds, Like I want to be a lot less
than a hundred round because I'm shooting a hundred rounds,
I'm I'm placing away at the bottom.
Speaker 1: Is it less than a hundred round? Match?
Speaker 3: It's a hunt?
Speaker 1: Like, you take one hundred rounds, you'll be fine. Okay,
So because I bought four hundred and it was expensive.
Speaker 2: Don't don't think you're saving money if you're getting into
this game though.
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, that's a whole another.
Speaker 1: Because I'm fine, but matchamo, Oh, don't tell me about
handloading either. Why don't you handload? Yeah, it's called time.
It's called hornity one forties and they work eld X
and there's other ones that shoot just as good.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's a whole thing.
Speaker 1: There's so many rabbit holes. All right.
Speaker 2: Well, that's it for chasing accuracy. Go uh go find
that old gun and you're safe, and maybe you bring
in a little new life, put a new barrel on it.
Hopefully you don't have to put two new barrels on it,
like Chris
Speaker 1: Let's see you next time on gun dog Days,