1 00:00:17,399 --> 00:00:20,719 Speaker 1: And we're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. 2 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,640 I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at The Federalist and 3 00:00:24,719 --> 00:00:29,320 your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. As always, 4 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,159 you can email the show at radio at the Federalist 5 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,439 dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, make 6 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,320 sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and of 7 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,079 course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,719 Our guest today is Brian Reisinger, author of the new 9 00:00:46,719 --> 00:00:51,719 book Land Rich, Cash Poor, My Family's Hope and The 10 00:00:51,799 --> 00:00:56,640 Untold History of the Disappearing American Farmer and our Disappearing 11 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:02,479 American Farmer, Brian asserts, is driving an economic and cultural 12 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:07,319 crisis that is threatening our very food supply with higher prices. 13 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,239 You want to know why you are paying so much 14 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:15,200 more for your groceries and everything in large part, take 15 00:01:15,239 --> 00:01:19,599 a look at the growing graveyard that was the family 16 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,799 farm in the United States of America. Brian, thank you 17 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,519 so much for being with us and this edition of 18 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:25,640 the Federalist Radio Hour. 19 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me on, Matt. I 20 00:01:27,439 --> 00:01:28,400 appreciate it. 21 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: It's a powerful book, and in many ways it's a 22 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:37,359 powerful book personally for me, because I was raised from 23 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:42,319 the time I was just about two years old in 24 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,200 the state of Wisconsin, spent much of my life there. 25 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,760 It is beautiful country. It was for a long time 26 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,280 to the left in this country and still in many 27 00:01:51,319 --> 00:01:56,040 ways is flyover country. That's unfortunate because they're missing out 28 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,079 on a very, very beautiful area of the United States 29 00:02:00,079 --> 00:02:02,879 of America. It's become, of course, so much more important 30 00:02:03,439 --> 00:02:06,040 to the left in politics today as it is to 31 00:02:06,079 --> 00:02:10,120 the right because of its position as a battleground or 32 00:02:10,159 --> 00:02:13,439 swing state. And we'll delve into that coming up a 33 00:02:13,439 --> 00:02:18,639 little bit later on. But let's talk about how you 34 00:02:18,719 --> 00:02:22,759 grew up. Where you grew up, of course is very important, 35 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,479 and how this project all came about. 36 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, Matt. I grew up in, as you said, 37 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,800 southwest Wisconsin. They called the driftless Area, as you know, 38 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,439 and this is an area where the glaciers didn't plow 39 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,159 over all the hillsides, and so we've got these soaring bluffs, 40 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,800 these deep valleys, this rolling farm country, and this is 41 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,240 where I grew up. And I knew growing up even 42 00:02:45,319 --> 00:02:48,560 then as a kid that I was kind of living 43 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,240 in a rare place you know, I would see teachers 44 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,159 ask students how many kids grew up on a farm, 45 00:02:54,199 --> 00:02:55,560 and I'd raise my hand and I'd be one of 46 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:56,919 a minority, and they'd say it used to be the 47 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:57,680 whole classroom. 48 00:02:57,719 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 3: You know. 49 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,439 Speaker 2: I would see my dad's devotion from sent up to 50 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,439 sundown each day, and I knew that it was a 51 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,599 special thing. What I didn't know is why was it 52 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,199 becoming more rare? And so in some ways, this book 53 00:03:09,199 --> 00:03:12,360 has been with me all through my life, through the generations, 54 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,199 and through me going on to have a career off 55 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:19,080 the farm and wrestling with that, and watching my dad 56 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,280 and sister work together as my sister works to take 57 00:03:21,319 --> 00:03:23,319 it over. All of that journey, all the way along, 58 00:03:23,599 --> 00:03:26,560 this book was really with me. And as I began 59 00:03:26,599 --> 00:03:29,319 to work first in business journalism then the public policy, 60 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,199 I began to see how our economy and our social 61 00:03:34,199 --> 00:03:37,360 and technological and political structures have been leaving families like 62 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:40,400 mine behind, and I thought somebody needs to investigate that. 63 00:03:40,439 --> 00:03:42,800 Somebody needs to write the book that tells our story 64 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,159 and talks about why is it disappearing. So that's where 65 00:03:45,159 --> 00:03:48,800 I married our family story with what had gone on 66 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,520 in this country and the goal was to find the 67 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,120 hidden airs of history that have driven this disappearance. Why 68 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,319 is that? Some of it was natural forces that are 69 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,199 normal to occur in a in a remarket econ me. 70 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,560 Some of it was ways that our country has knowingly 71 00:04:02,599 --> 00:04:06,560 and unknowingly stamped out farmers. And I found that decade 72 00:04:06,599 --> 00:04:09,400 after decade, those forces lined up with things that our 73 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:11,919 family had experienced. And that was the great stroke of 74 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,560 luck as I was looking into this and although it 75 00:04:14,639 --> 00:04:17,360 involves a lot of hardship and difficult things, the things 76 00:04:17,399 --> 00:04:18,920 we need to face, and so I just feel lucky 77 00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:20,600 to be able to tell that story. 78 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: I think it told it very well. And I love 79 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,879 the fact that you merge your own personal experiences, your 80 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:31,759 family's history of multi generations of farm families, as well 81 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,959 as the stories of others, neighbors, and not just the 82 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,480 stories of farmers in Wisconsin, but those sharing having shared 83 00:04:38,519 --> 00:04:42,439 experiences across this country. You dedicate this book to your dad, 84 00:04:43,079 --> 00:04:46,240 You say, to my dad, as good and true a 85 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,839 farmer as there's ever been. Let me ask you this question, 86 00:04:50,879 --> 00:04:55,160 because it really is at the core of your story. 87 00:04:56,199 --> 00:05:01,279 Is your dad and his generation of farmers a dying breed? 88 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:02,120 In this country. 89 00:05:03,199 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: They absolutely are, and I appreciate asking about that. It's 90 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:08,120 something that gives me a heavy heart even just thinking 91 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,680 about it and talking about it with you. Here, they 92 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,399 absolutely are a dying breed, but they don't have to be. 93 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:16,319 And my dad is an example of someone who is 94 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,519 holding on still. He's seventy two years old. He's the 95 00:05:20,519 --> 00:05:21,800 sort of guy who will be on the back of 96 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,480 a tractor and near his cattle for the rest of 97 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,959 his life he has anything to say about it, and 98 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:28,639 so far he's had a lot to say about it. 99 00:05:28,639 --> 00:05:31,439 He gave us a middle class upbringing as it was 100 00:05:31,439 --> 00:05:34,079 slipping away. He's found a way to have our farm 101 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,879 be debt free and one that is something where my 102 00:05:36,959 --> 00:05:38,800 sister can be in a position to take it over. 103 00:05:39,399 --> 00:05:42,560 And he has fought and fought every single day, and 104 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,399 he is in many ways, my dad is the disappearing 105 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,519 American farmer, and he's one of them that hasn't yet disappeared. 106 00:05:48,519 --> 00:05:51,560 And I'm grateful every day that he hasn't. But there 107 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,360 are so many farms like ours and farmers like him 108 00:05:55,720 --> 00:06:01,240 who have disappeared, and so it's something that is so difficult. 109 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,879 It's been at the rate of forty five thousand farms 110 00:06:03,879 --> 00:06:06,360 per year on average for the past century, and so 111 00:06:06,399 --> 00:06:08,639 it's going to continue. But I do think there are 112 00:06:08,639 --> 00:06:10,560 things we can do about it, and I think I'm 113 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,120 proud to say that one part of what we can 114 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:14,879 do is harness the kind of resilience that I've seen 115 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:16,360 in men like my dad. But there's a lot more 116 00:06:16,399 --> 00:06:18,480 that we need to do. But there are still a 117 00:06:18,519 --> 00:06:21,839 good many farmers out there who are holding on and 118 00:06:21,879 --> 00:06:25,839 who have given us an opportunity to try to not 119 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:27,399 have that breed completely die out. 120 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:32,519 Speaker 1: When did your family start? It's the farm, the family farm? 121 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,040 How long? How far does this go back? We know 122 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,920 a lot of farmers out there who are on the 123 00:06:37,959 --> 00:06:40,680 century Farm list. We know that you know at the 124 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:45,120 turn of not the last century, but the twentieth century 125 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:50,720 that farms were indeed and they still are in many ways. 126 00:06:50,759 --> 00:06:55,240 But we're talking about employment wise, the lifeblood of America that, 127 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,480 as you know painfully point out in your book, has 128 00:06:59,639 --> 00:07:05,480 changed dramatically. But what did your farm family look like 129 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:11,399 years ago? The farmstead, and talk a little bit about 130 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,680 the change and where your farm and the American farm 131 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:16,319 is today. 132 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely so. My our farm began over a century ago, 133 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,000 in nineteen twelve when my great grandpa Alice Rising or 134 00:07:25,079 --> 00:07:28,439 my great grandma Teresa Rising or Teresa Roth, i should 135 00:07:28,439 --> 00:07:31,839 say at the time, but they met in southern Wisconsin. 136 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:33,959 They had grown up just a few miles apart from 137 00:07:33,959 --> 00:07:38,160 one another in Bavaria, and they had both left Bavaria 138 00:07:38,399 --> 00:07:42,560 free World War One. My grandfather, my great grandfather, had 139 00:07:42,759 --> 00:07:45,160 served in the military. He did not want to fight 140 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,079 on the German side should World War One breakout. He 141 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:50,519 wanted to find a better opportunity, and so he left 142 00:07:50,519 --> 00:07:53,079 before war broke out, and so did she. They'd never met, 143 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,439 even though they'd grown up three miles apart. They met 144 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,439 in Wisconsin at a church function, as so many people 145 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,079 in those days did, and they were married and bought 146 00:08:02,079 --> 00:08:03,839 the farm, all in the same month of January of 147 00:08:03,879 --> 00:08:07,000 nineteen twelve. It was the coldest and hardest winter on record. 148 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,439 That was the year of the Blue Northern where we 149 00:08:09,519 --> 00:08:14,000 had it go Swings in temperatures were incredibly drastic. There 150 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,920 were winter tornadoes. It was a really difficult time. 151 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:18,439 Speaker 1: It was climate change, Brian. 152 00:08:18,519 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 2: It was, yes, it was a very severe, very severe 153 00:08:24,759 --> 00:08:27,879 shift in weather, and this is something that farmers have 154 00:08:27,959 --> 00:08:32,440 been living with for a very long time. So he 155 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,360 got the farm and it was in this remote valley 156 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:37,279 and he began farming, and it was in those days. 157 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,320 It was subsistence farming, and they were doing I call people. 158 00:08:41,519 --> 00:08:44,240 It was, you know, kind of the Charlotte's Web days 159 00:08:44,399 --> 00:08:46,399 in the sense that it was every animal you could imagine, 160 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,840 every type of crop you could imagine, and they were 161 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,759 trying to find which crops and products would put food 162 00:08:52,799 --> 00:08:54,840 on their table and make them enough of a buck 163 00:08:54,919 --> 00:08:57,639 to continue to make it. Now, eventually dairy emerged from that, 164 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,879 and so as my grandpa took over from my great grandpa, 165 00:09:02,799 --> 00:09:04,679 it was really dairy farms at that point. And my 166 00:09:04,799 --> 00:09:07,799 great grandpa grew up in the agriculture depression in nineteen twenties. 167 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,000 A lot of people don't realize that's one of the 168 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,159 hidden histories we tell, is that the Great Depression when 169 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,360 that hit farm country had been in depression for a 170 00:09:14,399 --> 00:09:16,879 decade before that. So my grandpa grew up as a 171 00:09:16,879 --> 00:09:19,039 young boy in the agricultural depression and as a young 172 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,279 man in the Great Depression. The first two decades of 173 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:26,000 his life essentially were economic depression, and he climbed in 174 00:09:26,039 --> 00:09:29,720 the middle class despite that. On dairy farming, the likes 175 00:09:29,759 --> 00:09:33,159 of which drove a lot of Wisconsin's economy. And then 176 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,480 my dad took over in the nineteen seventies. My dad 177 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,000 and mom took over in the nineteen seventies, and they 178 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,480 survived the farm crisis the nineteen eighties, and that brought 179 00:09:39,519 --> 00:09:42,919 us on up to today where globalization and other changes 180 00:09:43,159 --> 00:09:46,519 contributed toward farms being left behind. As I was growing up, 181 00:09:46,919 --> 00:09:49,879 the recessions of the two thousands on up through COVID, 182 00:09:49,879 --> 00:09:52,879 and so it's quite a long range of different economic 183 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,879 upheaval and economic, social, technological, and political trends that have 184 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,799 affected that kind of a farm over the past century. 185 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: It's been an absolute roller coaster that you write this. 186 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,080 Even when the land finds some new and valuable use, 187 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,159 some parts of past economic life are extinguished. Families going 188 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,879 bankrupt or left with no choice but to sell the 189 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,440 land that had been their stake in the American economy 190 00:10:20,799 --> 00:10:26,600 for generations. You know, you mentioned it, your grandfather and 191 00:10:26,639 --> 00:10:29,720 your great grandfather trying to start out becoming, you know, 192 00:10:30,279 --> 00:10:34,000 growing their farm through all of the adversity, the difficulty, 193 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:42,000 the Great Depression, difficult economic times, changing markets. Yet they survived. 194 00:10:42,759 --> 00:10:45,440 But it is a hard, hard business. 195 00:10:46,799 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 2: It really is. I get asked a lot why would 196 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,360 people do it? Yeah, I understand the question because it 197 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,759 is a difficult life and it's a lot of work. 198 00:10:54,799 --> 00:10:57,080 It's sun up to sundown, and that's on the good days. 199 00:10:57,159 --> 00:10:59,759 When you're in the field during planting and harvesting time 200 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,879 be much more than twelve hour days. And there are 201 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,440 farm accidents. We had tragedies throughout our family's history that 202 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,360 I talk about. Through the generations, all kinds of difficult things, 203 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,720 but it gets down into your blood and your bones. 204 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,519 And when you wake up before the sun and you 205 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,799 work with your dad each morning and you see him 206 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,120 with one whistle, have the cow dog run out to 207 00:11:21,159 --> 00:11:25,159 the pasture, bring the cows in. When you travel with 208 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,960 your dad across the fields and watch him feel with 209 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:30,360 his hands and look at the sky trying to figure 210 00:11:30,399 --> 00:11:34,000 out when's time to harvest, you know, that's something that 211 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,519 really stays with you. And you build a close bond 212 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:39,879 with the land, You build a close bond with the animals, 213 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,559 and you build a close bond with the way life. 214 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,480 And then when you compound that generation after generation, it's 215 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,120 not only your dad's job or your sister's job, or 216 00:11:49,159 --> 00:11:52,360 your job for a time, but it's your home, it's 217 00:11:52,399 --> 00:11:57,440 your community, it's your entire history, it's your heritage, and 218 00:11:57,759 --> 00:12:02,080 so that instills a great love and affection and deep devotion. 219 00:12:02,519 --> 00:12:05,919 It also instills a lot of guilt and a lot 220 00:12:05,919 --> 00:12:08,840 of difficulty, and it contributes storta mental health challenges too, 221 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,039 because it's such an incredible weight that presses down in 222 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,679 each generation. It's a burden that people are happy to carry, 223 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,000 but it doesn't mean that it doesn't have a heaviness 224 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:17,240 to it. 225 00:12:21,039 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 4: Warmer, sunnier days are calling fuel up for them. With factors, 226 00:12:24,759 --> 00:12:28,039 no prep, no mess, meals meet your wellness goals in 227 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,480 time for summer thanks to the menu of chef crafted 228 00:12:30,519 --> 00:12:35,720 meals with options like calorie Smart, protein Plus, and Keto factors. 229 00:12:35,759 --> 00:12:38,840 Fresh never frozen meals are Dietitian approved and ready to 230 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,519 eat in just two minutes, so no matter how busy 231 00:12:41,519 --> 00:12:44,440 you are, you'll always have time to enjoy nutritious, great 232 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,639 tasting meals. Make today to day you kick start a 233 00:12:47,639 --> 00:12:51,000 new healthy routine. What are you waiting for? 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I grew up 254 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:06,159 in and for full disclosure, Brian and I have known 255 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,519 each other for a long time. We're in very similar 256 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,399 circles as we left the rural communities in many cases, 257 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,440 and like a lot of our friends, and went out 258 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:20,639 outside the farm and the rural community to work in 259 00:14:20,879 --> 00:14:24,759 other fields, so to speak. And I guess that's that's 260 00:14:24,799 --> 00:14:27,320 what I'm going. I mean, I remember as a high 261 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,879 school kid in Platteville, Wisconsin, working on Old Melvin de 262 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:35,600 Bureau's farm. Nobody worked as harder. I've had no boss 263 00:14:35,639 --> 00:14:39,240 who worked as harder, but man, the cheese sandwiches were good, 264 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:45,279 bail and hay, and doing stuff around the farm. It 265 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:50,799 taught me an invaluable sense of the value of work, 266 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,279 I mean, working with your hands and working with your heart. 267 00:14:54,399 --> 00:14:57,000 And I get that from your book. It's really clear, 268 00:14:57,039 --> 00:15:00,000 and it's been clear since I've known you, your experience 269 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:05,759 on your family farm that said that guilt is there. 270 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,840 You have gone into this, You go into this in 271 00:15:09,879 --> 00:15:14,240 the book, the experience of leaving the farm but still 272 00:15:16,039 --> 00:15:19,360 being on the farm, never being able to truly leave 273 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,799 the farm. But so many people have and that is 274 00:15:23,879 --> 00:15:29,399 why we're in this position. Is there a next generation 275 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,000 to have a family farm experience in this country. 276 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:38,039 Speaker 2: It's a great question I think there is. There are 277 00:15:38,159 --> 00:15:40,919 young people who want to go into farming all the time, 278 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,159 every day. There are also despite the fact we've lost 279 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,720 seventy percent of our farms forty five thousand on average 280 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,120 per year for a century, there are still nearly two 281 00:15:50,159 --> 00:15:52,480 million farms left, and there are people who want to 282 00:15:52,519 --> 00:15:55,600 go into it. The challenges are they going to have 283 00:15:55,679 --> 00:15:59,879 the entrepreneur opportunity needed to be able to justify the costs. 284 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,639 And for those who grew up with land in their family, 285 00:16:03,879 --> 00:16:07,159 usually the next generation buys that land, buys that farm 286 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,399 from the prior generation through a land contract, so they 287 00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,080 have years of debt to the prior generation, but they 288 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,399 have an opportunity to own land. It's hard for those 289 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,279 families to be able to make ends meet with rising 290 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:23,080 costs and with the shaky opportunities that are out there 291 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,879 for farmers to make a living. The challenge becomes even 292 00:16:26,919 --> 00:16:30,559 greater for young people who don't have an opportunity for land, 293 00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:32,240 where they have to lease land or find a way 294 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,679 into land that they can buy. It's hard to come 295 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,960 by and it's expensive, and so it's incredibly hard, But 296 00:16:39,399 --> 00:16:41,000 I do think there are ways we can do it. 297 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,320 I think there are things that we can change about 298 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,360 our policies. We can change about the way we think 299 00:16:46,399 --> 00:16:48,519 about our economy, we can change about the way that 300 00:16:48,559 --> 00:16:51,720 we behave as consumers and as farmers. There are things 301 00:16:51,759 --> 00:16:54,240 that can be done if we can find a way 302 00:16:54,279 --> 00:16:57,840 to make those nearly the two farms growing entrepreneurial ventures again. 303 00:16:57,879 --> 00:16:59,799 Because right now, what they are and you know this, Matt, 304 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,919 from your time in these states and your time talking 305 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,880 to so many people across the country. What happens is 306 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,759 these farms that are there, the nearly two million farms, 307 00:17:09,799 --> 00:17:11,880 first of all, ninety six percent of our family operations, 308 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,359 which is incredible. Those of them that are the smaller 309 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,880 farms that are having a harder time making it, are 310 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,039 the kinds of farms where there's someone running it, but 311 00:17:19,039 --> 00:17:22,079 they're also pulling shifts of the factory, working construction jobs, 312 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,039 pouring concrete. Right they've got two to three jobs, one 313 00:17:25,039 --> 00:17:27,240 of which is a farm. What if we were to 314 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,319 change the way we orient ourselves in this country so 315 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,119 that those farms could be growing small businesses again that 316 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,759 could support the family that is working the land. I 317 00:17:35,759 --> 00:17:37,000 think we can do that, and it would be an 318 00:17:37,039 --> 00:17:40,319 incredibly powerful thing, not only for the farmers whose livelihoods 319 00:17:40,319 --> 00:17:42,079 we could save, but also for the people whose food 320 00:17:42,079 --> 00:17:43,079 supply we could secure. 321 00:17:43,799 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: That's all good points. How do you effectively go about 322 00:17:47,519 --> 00:17:50,000 doing that? You're a free market guy. I'm a free 323 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,799 market guy. We're a free market free people kind of guys. 324 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 325 00:17:54,519 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: That said, we have seen a lot of consolidation of farmland, 326 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,480 a lot of corporate farming going on in this country 327 00:18:03,599 --> 00:18:08,799 because it is just for too many farm families, costs prohibitive, 328 00:18:08,839 --> 00:18:12,400 they can't do it, or they've been driven out of business. 329 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:17,480 So how do you do that in a system that 330 00:18:18,079 --> 00:18:24,319 often rewards larger scale of operation. There's a number of ways. 331 00:18:24,519 --> 00:18:27,519 Speaker 2: And what I'll say about farming as I'm out there 332 00:18:27,519 --> 00:18:29,039 talking about this book, and as I've been talking to 333 00:18:29,039 --> 00:18:31,599 people in rural communities and in urban communities, that people 334 00:18:31,599 --> 00:18:34,359 who care about their food, people who are from the right, 335 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,960 the left, everywhere between. There are people out there who 336 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:38,799 care abou where their food comes from it and almost 337 00:18:38,839 --> 00:18:40,960 all of them have something they don't like about our 338 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,640 current system, even if they have different beliefs and viewpoints. 339 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,480 And by the way, the farmers who are in that 340 00:18:45,559 --> 00:18:48,599 system don't necessarily like the system, whether they're big, small, 341 00:18:48,839 --> 00:18:51,440 or medium, and so there's a lot of things that 342 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:52,960 need to change. There's a lot of things that people 343 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:57,279 have frustration with. Here's I think the reality there is 344 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,680 a way that we can sew a path in this 345 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:05,079 country where we can find sustained private sector innovation that 346 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,839 can give our farms more entrepreneur opportunity. And I say 347 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,200 sustained private sector because it's something that has to make 348 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,160 economic sense for the farmer to do, and it has 349 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,880 to make sense for the consumer to buy. Now. I 350 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,160 do think that government has a certain role. There are 351 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,160 some programs that guard against uncontrollable factors, like whether that's 352 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,319 a bit of a safety net. I think that there's 353 00:19:25,559 --> 00:19:28,000 some place for that. But the issue that we have 354 00:19:28,079 --> 00:19:30,759 right now is that we have government policy, we have 355 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,519 economic practice, and we have technology that has favored some 356 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,799 over others, and people from both the right and the 357 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,400 left dislike a lot about the farm programs that can 358 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,319 be prone to abuse and favoritism and things like that. 359 00:19:44,599 --> 00:19:46,799 What I talk about in the book is trying to 360 00:19:46,839 --> 00:19:51,799 find places because we do have federal, state, local government, 361 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,559 and people from different ends of political spectrum. It took 362 00:19:54,839 --> 00:19:58,359 people all across this spectrum to break the farm system 363 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,319 in this country, and it'll take everybody to put it 364 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,559 back together. So I try to find places where where 365 00:20:02,559 --> 00:20:05,559 can we find areas of agreement, and there are a few. 366 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,960 One of them does have to do with, for instance, 367 00:20:08,039 --> 00:20:12,480 trade and anti trust policy. So for trade, we don't 368 00:20:12,519 --> 00:20:14,960 have to pick between the unfettered free trade of the 369 00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:18,000 nineties that didn't protect us at all against the countries 370 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,640 that had lower costs because they had lower standards than 371 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,720 we do. We have the ability to open new markets 372 00:20:23,759 --> 00:20:25,920 in a way that can prevent countries like China from cheating, 373 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:30,680 and they can prevent countries that have advantages around cost 374 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,240 from completely exploiting those things in an unfair way. We 375 00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:36,039 can have a fair global marketplace in this country. We 376 00:20:36,079 --> 00:20:37,960 are America. We have more leverage than any other country 377 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,720 in the world. There's also a place for making sure 378 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,880 that small businesses are able to compete in this economy, 379 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,599 and that big government and that big business doesn't only 380 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,359 dominate our economy, that there is a way for entrepreneurs, 381 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,759 small business people, farmers and otherwise to make it. So 382 00:20:54,079 --> 00:20:56,799 those are some things in Wisconsin. We also have an 383 00:20:56,839 --> 00:21:00,799 example of the rural regional economy around cheese where the 384 00:21:00,839 --> 00:21:03,079 Master Cheesemaker program has made it so that there are 385 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,000 small cheese factories that make the type of cheese that's 386 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,240 consumed all over the country and is viewed as the 387 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,759 best in the country. So there's a ways to organize 388 00:21:11,759 --> 00:21:14,720 around niche market opportunities. There's also role the research and 389 00:21:14,759 --> 00:21:17,880 development and innovation play. So how do we make sure 390 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,519 that the technology that we have is something that's what's 391 00:21:20,559 --> 00:21:23,079 called scale neutral. So this is where when technology is 392 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,680 developed matt it is able to be used not only 393 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,599 by large farms, but also medium farms and small farms. 394 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,400 They all have their version of this technology that they 395 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,799 can afford and that they can implement. That's something that 396 00:21:31,839 --> 00:21:34,160 we can do to make sure that as technology marches forward, 397 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,960 which has been an incredible accomplishment for mankind what it's 398 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,799 been able to do for our food supply, that as 399 00:21:39,799 --> 00:21:42,279 that technology march is for it doesn't leave some farms behind. 400 00:21:42,319 --> 00:21:43,480 So there's a lot of things that we can do 401 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,440 that people, I think from different political persuasions can look 402 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,960 and say, hey, that would make this market function the 403 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,640 way that that market act to function instead of being 404 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:52,079 on a whack. 405 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: You've said a lot of important things. You've said a 406 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:59,000 lot of interesting things. Once you started talking about cheese, 407 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:03,000 my mind and media went to kurds, squeaky kurds, and 408 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:07,559 anybody who's ever had fresh Wisconsin cheese curds, particularly straight 409 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,960 from the small factories that the cheese factories that make them. 410 00:22:12,559 --> 00:22:18,559 You know exactly what I'm talking about. Brian, Yes, absolutely. 411 00:22:18,599 --> 00:22:22,960 Brian Reisinger, author of the new book Land Rich, Cash Poor, 412 00:22:23,079 --> 00:22:26,920 My Family's Hope and The Untold History of the Disappearing 413 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,839 American Farmer, joining us on this edition of The Federalist 414 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:37,039 Radio Hour. What do you think about some of the 415 00:22:37,079 --> 00:22:42,400 policies we have heard in selection cycle? And I want 416 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:47,319 to go to one in particular because it is interesting, 417 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,519 I think, not only to the American consumer. It's important 418 00:22:51,599 --> 00:22:58,440 to hear policies from presidential candidates. And to be honest, 419 00:22:58,559 --> 00:23:01,359 we haven't heard much in the way of policy from 420 00:23:01,519 --> 00:23:05,079 the Harris Walls ticket for the Democrats. We're told that's 421 00:23:05,079 --> 00:23:07,960 the work in progress. One thing we did here from 422 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:13,680 Vice President Kamala Harris, the presidential nominee of the Democratic Party, 423 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:20,319 is that she fancies or favors price controls, and then 424 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,440 she and her campaign have walked that back, but she 425 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:28,960 definitely did talk about that what would such price controls 426 00:23:29,079 --> 00:23:34,400 do to an already difficult time on the American family farm. 427 00:23:34,839 --> 00:23:37,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. And the issue that we 428 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,440 have is that farms have been dealing with higher prices 429 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,799 in terms of their costs that go into production, seed, fertilizer, energy, 430 00:23:45,839 --> 00:23:49,920 and more for decades. That's always been going on and 431 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,880 the reality is that there are many steps between the 432 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,319 farm gate and the dinner table. So you know, higher 433 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,880 cost for farms has been something that's going on forever. 434 00:23:59,039 --> 00:24:02,559 And as food prices go up, there's no additional money 435 00:24:02,599 --> 00:24:05,680 in farmers' pockets, and so we have an issue that 436 00:24:05,759 --> 00:24:09,920 is so much deeper, so much deeper than any one 437 00:24:10,039 --> 00:24:12,599 such policy proposal, be it from the left or the right, 438 00:24:12,759 --> 00:24:16,480 would necessarily address what we need to do in this 439 00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:19,000 country in order to be able to address the cost 440 00:24:19,039 --> 00:24:23,880 of food is we have to slow and alter the 441 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,759 course of the disappearance of our family farms. We have 442 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,039 to create an economy where there is an incentive in 443 00:24:31,079 --> 00:24:34,559 the market for more food distributors to be operating on 444 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,440 local and regional levels in addition to what we have nationally, 445 00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:40,119 so that we can shorten the supply chain and create 446 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,559 more channels for food to get from the farm gate 447 00:24:45,039 --> 00:24:48,480 to the dinner table. And we don't have that right now. 448 00:24:48,839 --> 00:24:51,680 And on top of that, we don't have an ability 449 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,240 for American innovation to take over. Actually the globally, the 450 00:24:56,279 --> 00:25:01,319 innovation in our agriculture sector has been slowing, and America 451 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,599 has been one of the biggest sources of the drag 452 00:25:04,079 --> 00:25:06,960 on that. And so if we want to actually address 453 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,880 food prices and avoid more food price increases in the future, 454 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,839 we need to have a world where more farms can 455 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,559 make it, where there's more ways for food to get 456 00:25:15,559 --> 00:25:19,400 from farms to consumers, and where there's more innovation improving 457 00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:22,680 the capabilities of those farms. Those are the kinds of 458 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,559 things that are actually going to change the course of 459 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:27,559 what's going on. They also happen to be by the 460 00:25:27,599 --> 00:25:30,400 way they happen to be the things that tie back 461 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,200 to some of those policy solutions you and I were 462 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,599 just talking about that folks of different persuasions can get behind, 463 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,559 and I think that it's important to try to solve 464 00:25:39,599 --> 00:25:43,599 fundamental issues with these kinds of proposals. 465 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: With all of that said, Brian, what about the regulatory 466 00:25:46,839 --> 00:25:51,720 environment now for farmers, particularly in an era where we 467 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:59,519 see concern over the environment. In my estimation, the climate 468 00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:04,799 change cult that has already done so much damage, and 469 00:26:05,079 --> 00:26:10,799 I think significant damage lies ahead if they continue to 470 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,039 hold power and consolidate power. But there is a lot 471 00:26:16,079 --> 00:26:21,359 of regulation that has driven the family farmer out of business. 472 00:26:23,039 --> 00:26:27,720 How are family farmers throughout America dealing with the state 473 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,079 of regulation today. 474 00:26:29,559 --> 00:26:32,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no question that regulation adds cost, and it's 475 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,240 always a question of trying to balance the goal of 476 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,759 that regulation with the downside of that regulation. And the 477 00:26:37,799 --> 00:26:40,559 reality is that and this happens across many industries in 478 00:26:40,599 --> 00:26:42,680 our economy. I saw this as a business journalist and 479 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,599 in other walks as well. Regulations that are intended to 480 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,039 regulate certain types of entities or maybe some of the 481 00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:53,039 biggest players in an industry, they impact the smaller players 482 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,400 to an even greater degree. And so there is the 483 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,519 additional cost of regulation that causes a real problem. And 484 00:26:59,599 --> 00:27:02,319 here's the challenge and kind of the tragedy of it. 485 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,279 Farmers are the original conservationists. Farmers care about their land, 486 00:27:07,599 --> 00:27:13,279 and there are so many areas of our land, our soil, 487 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,279 our water where there could be agreement, and in some 488 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,000 cases there is, but there could be more agreement between 489 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,079 farmers and people who are concerned about our environment. For example, 490 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,119 soil quality. Farmers have an interest in having soil quality 491 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,720 be as high as possible because it can lead to 492 00:27:27,759 --> 00:27:30,559 greater yields and so cover crops and having other types 493 00:27:30,559 --> 00:27:32,480 of vegetation on their land is in their interest in 494 00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:35,319 many of them are implementing that, and that soil quality 495 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,519 is also something that people care about our environment are 496 00:27:37,559 --> 00:27:40,279 concerned about from the standpoint of the quality of our environment. 497 00:27:40,559 --> 00:27:43,839 Abundance of water is another example. Nobody wants those aquifers 498 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,880 beneath our country's soil to be running out. Farmers need 499 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,000 plentiful water. People who care about water for recreation purposes 500 00:27:51,079 --> 00:27:54,480 or for other reasons pollution, et cetera care about that too. 501 00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:57,319 So the reality is that there are so many places, 502 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:58,640 and we talk about this in the book. There's so 503 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:01,599 many places where people who are on different sides of 504 00:28:01,599 --> 00:28:04,359 a debate could actually work together if we could set 505 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,960 aside the devisive elements of those things and workload solutions. 506 00:28:10,319 --> 00:28:13,519 Speaker 3: From the Egyptian Pharaohs all the way to Richard Nixon. 507 00:28:13,599 --> 00:28:17,079 What Kamala's plans are are dangerous? Watched Out on Wall 508 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,400 Street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day Chris helps unpack 509 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,799 the connection between politics and the economy and how it 510 00:28:22,799 --> 00:28:25,400 affects your wallet. It is never a good idea to 511 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,359 implement price control. It has a proven track record of 512 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,680 making matters even worse and in some cases end civilizations. 513 00:28:32,799 --> 00:28:34,839 Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall Street, 514 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,079 it's affecting you financially. 515 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: Be informed. 516 00:28:36,759 --> 00:28:38,599 Speaker 3: Check out the Watch Dot on Wall Street podcast with 517 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,839 Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 518 00:28:44,359 --> 00:28:48,119 Speaker 1: You're wearing a cap that has the John Deere logo 519 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,799 on it. Yeah, and I you know, that's a familiar 520 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,240 hat in rural America and it's been that way for 521 00:28:55,319 --> 00:28:57,839 a long time. John Deere has been a staple in 522 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:03,440 America for a long time, and it has been because 523 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,079 it's been over the years, a very innovative company. It 524 00:29:07,119 --> 00:29:12,279 started with innovation, It started with technology, building something that 525 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:19,079 was absolutely necessary as the Americans of your settled the 526 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,920 you know, the rough places around the country and turned 527 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:29,720 it into farmland. It's a double edged plow, so to speak. 528 00:29:29,799 --> 00:29:34,000 To use the parlance, technology has greatly benefited the American 529 00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:39,319 family farmer, it has also hurt them immensely. What's that 530 00:29:39,319 --> 00:29:40,559 that fine line today? 531 00:29:41,119 --> 00:29:45,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an issue that grew in its most dramatic 532 00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:47,400 form in the nineteen eighties farm crisis, and it still 533 00:29:47,559 --> 00:29:50,759 happens today. So what happened in this country is as 534 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:55,839 our private research institutions, our companies, our government, as all 535 00:29:55,839 --> 00:29:59,200 of these different entities were doing research and finding ways 536 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,720 to find new technology that could march farm productivity forward, 537 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,640 what happened is we lost sight of something called scale 538 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,480 neutral technology, where farms of all sizes large, medium and 539 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,160 small could find a cost effective version of it to implement. 540 00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:14,359 And we've never really recovered that. So that happened during 541 00:30:14,359 --> 00:30:16,359 the nineteen eighty farm crisis. It's one of the unknown 542 00:30:16,359 --> 00:30:18,839 things that we talk about that happened beneath the surface 543 00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:23,079 of our history in the book, and it still persists today. 544 00:30:23,359 --> 00:30:27,440 There is an incredible amount of technology moving farming forward. 545 00:30:27,519 --> 00:30:31,599 It has made it possible to produce more food more affordably, 546 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,000 with fewer people breaking their backs to do it. It 547 00:30:34,039 --> 00:30:38,880 has also made it so that farms that are smaller 548 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,440 and medium sized each year see a little bit less 549 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,519 technology that they can utilize to innovate, and we really 550 00:30:44,559 --> 00:30:49,440 need to have technological discovery and innovation be something that 551 00:30:49,559 --> 00:30:52,839 is i'll say economically diverse as a phrase that I'll 552 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,680 use where it can be going in so many directions 553 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,480 and involved so many different type of people, because that's 554 00:30:58,519 --> 00:31:03,039 what unlocks americanrepreneurship, and so small farms have benefit from 555 00:31:03,119 --> 00:31:07,759 less less techology. I give one example, when my parents 556 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,359 were going through the farm crisis, something else that had 557 00:31:11,359 --> 00:31:15,279 happened around that time was that there was a disease 558 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,200 I shouldn't say disease. There was a sickness called masthitis 559 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,599 that hit our herd and it affected a large part 560 00:31:20,599 --> 00:31:22,400 of our herd. And what we needed was a pipeline 561 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,000 to take the milk directly from the cow to the tank. 562 00:31:25,079 --> 00:31:27,000 The bulk tank and the milk colts were cool to 563 00:31:27,119 --> 00:31:29,319 improve sanitation. So they put that in and that was 564 00:31:29,359 --> 00:31:32,039 an expense, but it was an expense that a small 565 00:31:32,079 --> 00:31:35,400 farm could afford to finance from a dairy supply company 566 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,039 for a short period of time, and they got through it. 567 00:31:38,519 --> 00:31:41,279 The kind of technology that can make it so that 568 00:31:41,359 --> 00:31:45,079 small farms can be innovative on new levels is fewer 569 00:31:45,079 --> 00:31:47,000 and fewer. That was one of the last great innovations 570 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,720 that occurred before. What really happened was the technology was 571 00:31:49,759 --> 00:31:52,240 such that it was making it possible so that you 572 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,240 could get bigger and bigger. And that doesn't have to 573 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,000 be a bad thing. But for those farms that don't 574 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,720 necessarily want to continue to quadruple their herd size, having 575 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,960 a type of technology that can give them different pathways 576 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,240 to make their own decisions in this economy is a 577 00:32:06,279 --> 00:32:07,880 good thing and it's something we don't have enough of. 578 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,039 Speaker 1: Every time I think about the farm crisis of the 579 00:32:12,119 --> 00:32:16,119 late seventies early to mid eighties extended really into the 580 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,960 late nineteen eighties. We live that in Wisconsin. Obviously, we 581 00:32:21,119 --> 00:32:23,519 live that in the old Rust Belt because we saw 582 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,480 not only the farm jobs go away, we saw the 583 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:31,960 factory jobs that supplied the farms. You know, the John 584 00:32:32,039 --> 00:32:35,559 Deeres of the world, the international harvesters, those plants. I 585 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,160 remember growing up in the shadow of Dubuque, Iowa had 586 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:45,279 a major John Deere factory. They did some agriculture, but 587 00:32:45,359 --> 00:32:48,519 they did a lot of construction equipment, and you know, 588 00:32:48,559 --> 00:32:51,920 they were laying off people by the hundreds on a 589 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,519 daily basis. Remember, these are the times where your economies 590 00:32:55,559 --> 00:32:59,000 were one horse town or a two horse town when 591 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,119 it came to you know, the major employers and the 592 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:07,279 farmers needed of course those incomes, and they needed success 593 00:33:07,319 --> 00:33:14,240 in those supportive manufacturing areas. But I always think about, 594 00:33:14,519 --> 00:33:17,440 you know, that time period, and I see two faces. 595 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:22,759 I see Sam Shepherd and Jessica Lang. I grew up 596 00:33:22,759 --> 00:33:26,240 in the eighties. You know exactly what I'm talking about. 597 00:33:26,279 --> 00:33:28,880 I mean the movie talking about how many family farms 598 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:33,359 at that time just went bankrupt, how many auctions there 599 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:38,000 were every weekend in a given area. You live through that, 600 00:33:38,359 --> 00:33:43,039 your family survived that. But was that the most destructive 601 00:33:43,079 --> 00:33:45,079 time in America for the family farm. 602 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,079 Speaker 2: It's a great question. It was one of the most destructive. 603 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,839 The amazing thing is that it wasn't necessarily the most destructive. 604 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,480 It was the one that was specially for us. And 605 00:33:57,559 --> 00:33:59,880 I say that with my tongue in my cheek. It 606 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,359 was the economic catastrophe that was specific to rural communities 607 00:34:03,359 --> 00:34:05,559 that did not need to happen. And there are many 608 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,799 things that occurred, But one of the things that occurred 609 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,360 is that the government had for a long time been 610 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,760 encouraging farms to get bigger and bigger, to take on 611 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,079 more debt, to continue to expand, and then in order 612 00:34:15,119 --> 00:34:19,519 to control inflation, they began to raise interest rates, and 613 00:34:19,559 --> 00:34:22,800 that was needed to help address inflation. But it came 614 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,679 so quickly and in such a turnabout after having encouraged 615 00:34:26,679 --> 00:34:28,519 farms to take out debt, and it suddenly made that 616 00:34:28,599 --> 00:34:31,639 debt unaffordable, and so it was a catastrophe that was 617 00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:36,079 created that didn't need to happen. That occurred specifically in 618 00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:39,960 rural communities. Now that's one of the major chapters. There 619 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,800 are so many others. We actually had an incredibly large 620 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,679 amount of farm loss in the nineteen fifties, a time 621 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,519 of great prosperity that included for those farms that were 622 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,119 doing well in that time. But it was also the 623 00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:53,760 era where our country moved into an economy defined by 624 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,840 big and the farm was the little guy. So that 625 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,000 was another era. The egg depression and the depression were 626 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,599 also times that were hard, and they actually that's when 627 00:35:02,639 --> 00:35:05,840 the crisis of the Discprepan America farmer was first established. 628 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,400 In that economic people that took these growing entrepreneurial ventures 629 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,440 and made them go from increasing a number to decreasing 630 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,920 a number. So there are a number of eras that 631 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,480 were incredibly harsh. The farm crisis was one of them. 632 00:35:18,519 --> 00:35:20,760 And I think the farm crisis sticks in our minds 633 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,440 so badly because it was specifically for rural America, and 634 00:35:24,519 --> 00:35:26,719 it was at a time when other parts of the 635 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,119 economy were doing just fine, or at least not facing 636 00:35:29,119 --> 00:35:29,960 the same challenges. 637 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, it does for me. I mean I was a kid. 638 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,159 I remember being a twelve thirteen year old kid and 639 00:35:36,199 --> 00:35:39,280 my dad over at the plant out of work, of course, 640 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,719 because the plant had shut down a lot of strikes 641 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:46,280 that went on. Of course, in eighty four, eighty five, 642 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,719 and eighty six. It was a tough time in rural America, 643 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,320 particularly in the Midwest, where it might not have been 644 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:58,159 so difficult elsewhere. In fact, other portions of the economy 645 00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:00,519 were booming, and we kind of looked around and said, 646 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,920 what gives here? And it took a long time for 647 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:09,960 those communities to, you know, move on from that, to 648 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,559 start to grow again. You have a number in your 649 00:36:14,599 --> 00:36:19,519 book that is extremely startling. It is this, as of 650 00:36:19,559 --> 00:36:24,559 twenty twenty two, forty three point four million acres of 651 00:36:24,679 --> 00:36:30,159 American farmland was owned by foreign investors, a total that 652 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,599 remains small relatively speaking. This is a very big country, 653 00:36:35,079 --> 00:36:38,360 but is growing rapidly. And we think about how much 654 00:36:38,519 --> 00:36:43,199 China has gotten involved in land ownership and countries that 655 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:48,880 we don't have a well, let's put it the right way. 656 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,280 We have a very adversarial relationship with How much is 657 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,800 that influencing the American farm, the family farm today. 658 00:36:56,559 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 2: That's a great question. It's a crucial point. As you know, 659 00:36:59,079 --> 00:37:02,400 I don't want to distort the fact that it is 660 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,239 still a small share, but the issue is that it 661 00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:08,400 is an incredibly rapidly growing share, and the amount that 662 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,480 it increased in just two years is something that is 663 00:37:11,519 --> 00:37:14,880 really very shocking. It actually was bad enough, believe it 664 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,320 or not, it was bad enough that it's one of 665 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,239 the rare areas where Congress, the two parties came together 666 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:25,679 and passed some protections against Chinese, North Korean, Iranian and 667 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,760 Russian ownership of farmland. But it is still an issue 668 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,719 where we are in grave danger of the quick pace 669 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,559 with which our farmland can slip into unsav our hands 670 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:41,480 and specifically foreign adversaries as you know it with China 671 00:37:42,079 --> 00:37:45,920 and what happens is as we have fewer and fewer farms, 672 00:37:46,079 --> 00:37:48,840 more and more of our farmland is in fewer and 673 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,800 in some cases less careful hands. It's just math. If 674 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,880 you have land owned like it has been traditionally this 675 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,880 country by millions of small landowners, but it's really hard 676 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,800 to get in and convince all those people to get 677 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,079 off their land and sell it to you. If you 678 00:38:03,159 --> 00:38:06,960 have our farmland in fewer hands, it's just simple math. Again. 679 00:38:07,079 --> 00:38:10,599 There it is fewer people to convince, and in some 680 00:38:10,679 --> 00:38:13,800 cases there are companies in holdings that will sell land 681 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,719 as well. And so we are in this position where 682 00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:20,719 not only is the disappearing American farmer contributing toward higher 683 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,320 food prices, not because the farmer can't produce cheaply, but 684 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,800 because there aren't enough farms and because there aren't enough 685 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,559 waste for food to get to at dinner table. Not 686 00:38:27,639 --> 00:38:30,840 only is our food supply at risk during disaster, but 687 00:38:31,039 --> 00:38:35,159 the very land on which we grow our food is 688 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,239 at risk. That's a level of food security that I 689 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,079 don't think we want to have at risk in this country. 690 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: Well, let's look ahet. As the we close out our 691 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,840 conversation today, we talked about the roller coaster ride that 692 00:38:47,079 --> 00:38:53,119 is agriculture, farming in particular in America. Where do you see, 693 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,000 and you've hinted at this throughout our conversation, where do 694 00:38:57,079 --> 00:39:01,960 you see the American family farm five years from now, 695 00:39:02,159 --> 00:39:04,639 ten years, a generation from now. 696 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:09,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. What I see is 697 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:14,239 an ability for us to have two million family farms 698 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,440 that can become entrepreneurial ventures again. And the reason I 699 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:19,960 say that, the reason I have faith in it is 700 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,159 there's a couple of reasons. One of them is farmland resilience. 701 00:39:24,199 --> 00:39:26,719 It's not only my family and my admiration for my dad, 702 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,920 it is something that you can see in nearly two 703 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,199 million farm families across the country and what they have 704 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,599 gone through, and if they can survive what we've done 705 00:39:35,639 --> 00:39:37,239 to them in this country, imagine what they can do 706 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,639 if we create new entrepreneur opportunity. The second reason is 707 00:39:40,679 --> 00:39:43,039 that people care more than ever about where their food 708 00:39:43,079 --> 00:39:46,119 comes from. There's a growing local food movement. There are 709 00:39:46,199 --> 00:39:49,400 in many cases not only new places and ways to 710 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:51,719 buy food in locals, but there are grocery stores and 711 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,760 restaurants that are working to have farm to table options. 712 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,440 In the wake of COVID, people care more about where 713 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,840 their food comes from and understanding just as they care 714 00:40:01,039 --> 00:40:04,159 about their children's education and other things that after the 715 00:40:04,199 --> 00:40:07,000 isolation of COVID they had a chance to encounter in 716 00:40:07,039 --> 00:40:09,239 a new way people care about where their food comes from. 717 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:12,760 And so I think that the resilience of the American farmer, 718 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,000 combined with the desire of the American consumer to have 719 00:40:16,119 --> 00:40:18,159 a better way, is something that is in a very 720 00:40:18,159 --> 00:40:21,519 interesting intersection right now. And so if we're able to 721 00:40:21,639 --> 00:40:26,639 change policy, and if we're able to harness consumer desire 722 00:40:26,639 --> 00:40:29,480 and demand for local food, and we're able to harness 723 00:40:29,519 --> 00:40:32,280 that resilience of the American farmer, I think we can 724 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,559 change the course of this. And although consolidation is a 725 00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:38,159 natural market force that will continue in some ways, we 726 00:40:38,199 --> 00:40:42,159 don't have to have economic, social, technological and governmental forces 727 00:40:42,199 --> 00:40:44,519 making it worse forever in this country as we have 728 00:40:44,559 --> 00:40:46,360 for the past century. And I think we can change that. 729 00:40:47,039 --> 00:40:50,679 Speaker 1: It's the story of the family farm, the American family farmer, 730 00:40:51,079 --> 00:40:55,679 rural America, very important story to tell at this intersection 731 00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,400 of American life. Brian Reisinger is the offer of this 732 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,039 very interesting book, and I think there will be a 733 00:41:05,079 --> 00:41:07,679 lot of our listeners who will be taken back by 734 00:41:07,679 --> 00:41:12,719 the history therein remembering some very fond moments on the farm, 735 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,360 the a family, farm, friends, farm, what have you as 736 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,960 you grew up in these places in Wisconsin, these places 737 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,559 that seem more and more as we talked about, to 738 00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:26,199 be disappearing. Where can you find the book? Brian? 739 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Thanks Matt. You can find the book online 740 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,440 on Amazon, land Rich Cash Poor on Amazon or anywhere 741 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,559 else online that you buy books, and also you can 742 00:41:34,559 --> 00:41:36,840 find in your local bookstores all across the country. So 743 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,760 if you prefer online, go to Amazon or anywhere else. 744 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,599 If you prefer to pick it up from your local bookstore, 745 00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,760 reach out to your local bookstore. The should evidence stock 746 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,400 and if they don't ask them, then they can help 747 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:45,840 you get it. 748 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,519 Speaker 1: Thanks to my guest today, Brian Reisinger, author of the 749 00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:53,920 new book land Rich Cash Poor, My Family's Hope and 750 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,679 the Untold History of the Disappearing American Farmer. You've been 751 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,079 listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio. I'm Matt 752 00:42:01,159 --> 00:42:04,719 Kittle's senior correspondent at The Federalist. We'll be back soon 753 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:09,239 with more. Until then, stay lovers of freedom and anxious 754 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:09,480 for the 755 00:42:09,519 --> 00:42:22,119 Speaker 2: Fray I heard the fame, voice the reason, and then 756 00:42:22,159 --> 00:42:27,760 it faded away.