WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.680 --> 00:00:04.360 Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. 2 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:10.320 Oh my goodness, it's being Frank, where the only way 3 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:16.280 to be is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome to being Frank. 4 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:19.960 We're the only way to be is well Frank. I'm 5 00:00:19.960 --> 00:00:22.079 your host, franklborn On, and I'd like to thank you 6 00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:24.879 for joining us on what we like to call the 7 00:00:24.920 --> 00:00:29.640 Intelligent Conversation Podcast, where no conversation out of bounds and 8 00:00:29.879 --> 00:00:35.280 all points of view are welcome. Regular listeners know our routine, 9 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:37.799 and that is I give you the date because we 10 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:42.280 record live to tape. It is the twelfth of February. 11 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:47.359 Some criticized recognition months such as February being designated to 12 00:00:47.399 --> 00:00:53.000 honor Black history as unnecessary and possibly even divisive. They 13 00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:58.679 claim that these designations highlight our differences instead of our similarities. 14 00:00:59.039 --> 00:01:02.280 But they completely miss the point, because it's an opportunity 15 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:06.799 to share experiences that make us realize that Americans, every 16 00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:12.159 ethnic group, despite obstacles and hardships, have made enormous contributions 17 00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:16.400 to our society and have traditions worth sharing and celebrating. 18 00:01:16.840 --> 00:01:19.879 And no group in this country has had to overcome 19 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:23.920 more barriers to claim their share of the pie than 20 00:01:24.040 --> 00:01:28.200 African Americans from slavery to the pinnacle of power in 21 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:32.760 President Barack Obama, Blacks have made substantial progress in their 22 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:37.079 quest for total equality, but as evidenced by the recent 23 00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:41.319 racist videos released by the Trump White House, and let 24 00:01:41.359 --> 00:01:45.519 me make this perfectly clear, at this point, there is 25 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:49.879 no moral ambiguity here. For me, it's racist. So there 26 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:53.159 is still obviously a long way to go here to 27 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:56.920 discuss that video and so much more. Yes, this is 28 00:01:56.920 --> 00:02:00.280 a celebration. Are two leaders from our Black commune unity 29 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:05.760 returning for more intelligent conversation, the first black woman elected 30 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:12.360 to the Rockland County Legislature, doctor Dana green Stilly, an artist, author, educator, 31 00:02:12.680 --> 00:02:16.520 and community activist, mister Bill Batson. Let's start a little 32 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:19.879 bit again, doctor Dana, since you are relatively new and 33 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:24.120 you were on speaking recently about some of the legislation 34 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:28.199 the ice presidence here in the county in our last program, 35 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:31.360 which was extremely well received, I should stay, by the way, 36 00:02:31.400 --> 00:02:35.319 and we appreciate all the information that you and Joe 37 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:39.400 Rand and Beth Davidson gave to our listeners. 38 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:40.280 So we really. 39 00:02:40.039 --> 00:02:43.080 Appreciate that, but we really never really got the opportunity 40 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:45.680 if you will to beat doctor Dana Stilly. Tell us 41 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:48.360 a little bit about your journey as a woman, as 42 00:02:48.360 --> 00:02:51.280 a black woman, where you're from, a little bit about 43 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:53.879 your background and what brought to you to where you 44 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:54.479 are today. 45 00:02:57.039 --> 00:02:59.719 Okay, I can do that. I was born right here 46 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:06.439 in Rocklam County, have lived in Orangetown my entire life, 47 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:13.400 and attended South Orangetown Central School District, which was a 48 00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:18.159 really was a great educational experience, and for me, it 49 00:03:18.439 --> 00:03:24.080 was even a great social experience as well. I think 50 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:27.400 it's worth saying, however, that when it came time for 51 00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:32.400 me to consider my higher education, there was a little 52 00:03:32.840 --> 00:03:36.439 bump in the road in that my high school guidance 53 00:03:36.479 --> 00:03:40.599 counselor didn't think that I should be applying to Brown 54 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:43.280 University and seemed. 55 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:45.520 To say to me that. 56 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:51.800 She didn't think that we could afford it, and she 57 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:54.319 wasn't quite sure that I would even be accepted. And 58 00:03:54.759 --> 00:03:56.879 the minute someone says no, you can't to me, that's 59 00:03:56.919 --> 00:03:59.439 really just saying, well, watch me, because I'm going to 60 00:03:59.520 --> 00:03:59.840 do it. 61 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:03.800 And I can remember going home and just being feeling 62 00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:05.400 really deflated. 63 00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:11.240 And my parents as well as some of the other 64 00:04:11.800 --> 00:04:17.720 local leaders then specifically doctor Clarence Branch Junior said to me, Nope, 65 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:20.439 you're gonna apply to Brown and you're gonna go, and 66 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:21.720 you're gonna pay for it. 67 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:22.360 You know. 68 00:04:22.519 --> 00:04:26.319 Well, long story short, I did apply, got in early action, 69 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:32.079 of course, got some financial aid support, and was able 70 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:35.199 to go not only to one Ivy League institution, but 71 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:39.600 to two, both of which were paid for. And as 72 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:44.519 I think about that, as I've continued my journey, I thought, 73 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:48.399 how dare she actually how dare she say that to me? 74 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:51.519 Because she didn't know what my parents did for a living, 75 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:55.480 she didn't know what their educational achievements. 76 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:55.879 Were, She had no idea. 77 00:04:56.519 --> 00:04:58.319 I mean, she knew my name, she knew my grades, 78 00:04:58.360 --> 00:05:00.839 she probably knew my address, but she didn't really know 79 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:05.079 much more about me or a family that I had 80 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:10.160 there to support me. And that story has been a 81 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:14.600 catalyst almost for every other thing in my life that. 82 00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:17.639 I have set out and tried to do. 83 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:23.079 So, you know, having someone suggest that I could not 84 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:28.399 get the level of education that I wanted really drove 85 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:31.240 me to be sure that I completed my education on 86 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:34.519 time and then went to graduate school and many many 87 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:38.600 years later got that terminal degree again because doctor Clarence 88 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:41.120 Branch told me that I could and I should. 89 00:05:43.360 --> 00:05:43.759 And so. 90 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:47.680 While I was in college, and I'm going to try 91 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:50.160 to speed this up a little long faster. While I 92 00:05:50.199 --> 00:05:54.240 was in college, I pledged a sorority and we learned 93 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:58.560 then the importance of public service, and that has been 94 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:02.560 what has driven me my entire adult life. I came, 95 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:06.439 I returned home, and while I was in graduate school, 96 00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:12.240 I became involved in several nonprofits, built relationships, really found 97 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:16.399 out how the world of Rockland works. And that led 98 00:06:16.519 --> 00:06:20.079 me many many many years later to receiving that ask 99 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:24.079 about whether or not I would consider running for public office. 100 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:27.319 And at first I said no. And I said no, 101 00:06:27.879 --> 00:06:32.120 I think because you know, I had a young son 102 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:34.600 in high school about to go off to college. How 103 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:39.319 is that going to affect my private life, my family life, 104 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:43.959 what kind of time commitment does that mean make? And then, 105 00:06:44.319 --> 00:06:50.680 when thinking about it, why not me? Because it was 106 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:55.639 pretty clear that there was a lens of experience that 107 00:06:55.720 --> 00:07:02.240 was missing on the county legislature, that being a lack female, 108 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:05.319 and I felt like it was important to bring that 109 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:11.560 lens as we try to create policy and practices that 110 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:14.680 certainly would uplift everyone in the community. 111 00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:17.639 So I went for it and I was successful. 112 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:20.759 And here I am and here you are, you know, 113 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:23.759 and I appreciate all of that. It was not too long, 114 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:26.199 and I know there's so much more to tell. And 115 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:28.040 you know, it's funny when we get my guests. I 116 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:32.040 always asked for really truncated biographies because everyone has all 117 00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:35.000 these wonderful qualifications that if I read them all, we 118 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:38.759 never get to any topics. So with that understood, But 119 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:41.040 you know, as I was listening to I was also 120 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:43.079 taking some notes. And it's a great time to bring 121 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:46.680 Bill Batson in as well, you know. And I just 122 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:51.199 jotted down some words that we can build upon, especially 123 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:53.959 here in Rockland County. You know, it's a small place. 124 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:58.720 A lot of big things happened here historically and within 125 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:01.480 the civil rights movement as well. And I know Bill, 126 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:04.560 through his NIAX sketch log and his lectures, et cetera, 127 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:08.160 has had some direct experience and exposure. But let me 128 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:10.720 let me do four words that I that I put 129 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:13.160 out there and and and perhaps you guys can put 130 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:18.120 it in historical context here within Rockland County too, And 131 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:26.319 I put time place people history, okay, with within with 132 00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:28.800 the doctor was doctor Dane was saying, I heard all 133 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:30.800 of those things that you know that was a particular 134 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:34.919 time and in this place, and these people and this 135 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:38.879 history affected what I am today. So with that in mind, Bill, 136 00:08:38.919 --> 00:08:40.759 why don't you take what do you think some of 137 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:45.120 the key moments in people here in Rockland County, particularly 138 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:48.279 from the idea of civil rights as we are celebrating 139 00:08:48.639 --> 00:08:50.559 you know, Black History Month, Well what do you what 140 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:52.080 do you what would you say are some of the 141 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:57.279 really key places in people within that time and place here? 142 00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:02.519 So, yeah, it's interesting. So I would say. 143 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:08.919 That nayak is Is is wonderful for me. 144 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:11.840 My family's been here since the eighteen eighties. 145 00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:16.519 But I know that with doctor Stilly, we're talking about 146 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:21.279 you know, Piremount and Orangeburg, and within the black community, 147 00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:29.600 you're connected to all the other enclaves of blackness by virtue, 148 00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:36.039 sometimes of familial tie, common experience, and also by struggle. 149 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:38.279 So if I had to come up with something that 150 00:09:38.279 --> 00:09:42.000 would fit your forwards, a time that I think is 151 00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:45.360 unique to Rockland and pivotal to the country would be 152 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:50.960 pre war period, like from like nineteen thirty to nineteen 153 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:54.600 fifty five in particular. So the four words that you 154 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:59.759 prompt Us with Frank make me think of the period 155 00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:02.840 of nineteen thirty to nineteen fifty five. There were pivotal 156 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:06.080 time in America, certainly in the African American community. 157 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:07.440 Pre war period. 158 00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:12.039 Nineteen fifty five, of course, was the Montgomery bus Boycott. 159 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:15.440 I also think about place Hillburn. 160 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:20.080 It's in the eastern part of the county, but it 161 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:26.320 was kind of significant in that it had a combination 162 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:30.960 of black and Indigenous folks and people of mixed race 163 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:37.039 who were forced into a segregated school called the the 164 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:41.840 Brooks School for Colored Children. Yes, in our county in 165 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:44.240 the nineteen thirties, there was such a place. In the forties, 166 00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:47.159 the people I think about are all those men and 167 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:51.159 women who fought against this. The Van Dunk family and 168 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:58.320 leaders from the NAACP worked to bring a young Thurgood 169 00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:01.440 Marshall to Rockland County in the nineteen thirties. Most people 170 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:04.559 don't know this. There are so many facts and our 171 00:11:04.600 --> 00:11:07.399 county that kind of hide and play in sight. But 172 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:10.159 their good Marshal was a young attorney for the NAACP, 173 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:14.039 and he came up here and he fought the legal 174 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:18.279 segregation of black and Indigenous students into a school that 175 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:22.840 was separate and woefully unequal, didn't have indoor plumbing, didn't 176 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:26.440 have books, didn't have a gymnasium, didn't have any of 177 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:29.000 the amenities that the white school had that was around 178 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:35.240 the corner. And then the history was he successfully ended 179 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:40.200 that process where the state Department of Education shut down 180 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:41.600 the Brooks School for colored children. 181 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:43.519 All the students were. 182 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:47.240 Then sent to Hillburn And is a reaction and that 183 00:11:47.399 --> 00:11:52.080 often happens. White parents pulled their students out of the 184 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:56.399 integrated school, fearing God knows what that kids might learn 185 00:11:56.480 --> 00:12:00.840 together and play together. And they eventually, because of the 186 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:03.559 expense of private school, came back together. And it is 187 00:12:03.639 --> 00:12:06.759 to this day obviously ramapo and suffering. 188 00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:10.559 It's an integrated school system. But the real lesson that 189 00:12:10.919 --> 00:12:11.559 affected the. 190 00:12:11.559 --> 00:12:15.919 Nation is that Thurgood Marshall used the theories that he 191 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:21.519 employed to successfully integrate a school in Rockland to argue 192 00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:25.000 before the Supreme Court Brown v. Board of Education, which 193 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:28.879 ultimately ended school public school segregation in the United States 194 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:32.600 and eventually propelled him to the United States Supreme Court. 195 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:35.559 Before you get to your next time, just want to 196 00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:39.759 jump in wonderful documentary. By the way, two schools Hilbert. 197 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:44.200 Joe Hilbert, Yes, Joe Allen produced a local producer, wonderful 198 00:12:44.559 --> 00:12:48.360 informative and again if for people who are not familiar 199 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:51.480 with Rocker to Hilbert, it's this tiny place, but that 200 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:54.519 was a huge thing in the history of the civil 201 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:55.120 rights movie. 202 00:12:55.279 --> 00:12:57.279 You know, it looked like the same though, but if 203 00:12:57.320 --> 00:12:59.519 you go back there today, it's like a time capsule. 204 00:12:59.559 --> 00:13:02.480 And what's really sad to me two things. One that 205 00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:06.799 the Hillburn School is still there. It's in perfect pristine condition. 206 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:09.960 There's a there is a plaque outside of it to 207 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:16.480 Thurgood Marshal thanks to to Ellen Jaffey, the former Rocken 208 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:21.320 County Legislation Rocking County assembly member. But the Brooks School 209 00:13:21.320 --> 00:13:24.919 has been allowed to decay and it's just a ruin 210 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:27.600 and it's on private land and people now are trying 211 00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:30.320 to put together the resources to purchase it because it 212 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:32.519 should be a monument so that people can remember this 213 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:35.000 as people are running around parts of our country trying 214 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:37.960 to race history, that we just have to redouble our 215 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:40.960 efforts to erect monuments and things that are permanent that 216 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:43.600 can't be easily erased. The other thing is that there's 217 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:46.960 a story about the Indigenous community in Hillburn that goes unnoticed. 218 00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:49.600 And when I bring students to Hilburn, and I brought 219 00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:52.919 a group of Latin American students, and obviously there's a 220 00:13:52.919 --> 00:13:55.600 great deal of pressure in that community right now, and 221 00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:58.960 there's there's almost like an underground railroad forming for people 222 00:13:59.039 --> 00:14:01.679 from the Latin American community who were being chased through 223 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:05.799 the streets by masked agents who don't identify themselves. But 224 00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:08.919 the kids that I brought there from Ramapo didn't even 225 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:12.240 know that there were Indigenous people in Rockland County, didn't 226 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:14.600 know the name of those Indigenous people, and didn't know 227 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:16.600 that those Indigenous people still live here. 228 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:19.679 So there's so much of our history that goes hiding 229 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:20.240 in plain sight. 230 00:14:21.639 --> 00:14:23.759 Uh, Doctor Dana, I want to bring you back into 231 00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:26.759 our conversation here. And you mentioned some of your influences, 232 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:29.960 and Bill mentioned big names here in Rockland County like 233 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:34.039 Thurgood Marshall, but there are also local people. And I 234 00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:36.840 noticed on a social media post one of your posts 235 00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:43.120 saluting Chief Bullet, I was the first black fire chief 236 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:45.279 in the county. So there are many instance. I know 237 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:50.320 Hezekaya Easter, the first black legislature in Rockland County, and 238 00:14:50.360 --> 00:14:54.399 he has a square named after him in Nayak, in 239 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:58.279 downtown nig and rightly so. But there are so many 240 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.200 strong names here. Can you name some of them here 241 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:05.080 on this level, some of the people here that influenced. 242 00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:08.639 You, certainly I could, We couldn't. 243 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:11.480 We could not even begin to have a conversation about 244 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:16.200 this without invoking Wilbert Aldridge, right, who has been on 245 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:19.200 the front lines for I think he said well over 246 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:23.039 forty years and we you know, we know that he 247 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:28.799 most recently retired from his position. But Wilbert was has 248 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:35.519 always been a force to be reckoned with, strong, always 249 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:39.360 ready to speak out and speak up and challenge those. 250 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:45.360 I remember also mister Leonard Cook, who I think passed 251 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:51.120 in two thousand and one or so, but he was 252 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:58.000 a very strong advocate for affordable housing, particularly a Nayak right, 253 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:00.279 you know, the creation of the Leonard Cook Pines Street 254 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:05.080 homes located in Nayak. He also led the ninth branch 255 00:16:05.080 --> 00:16:07.039 of the na A c P for a very very 256 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:12.200 very long time. We could also mention, oh my goodness, 257 00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:19.320 there are so many the Gordons, Edmund and Susan Gordon, 258 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:22.919 right of course, for all of that what they did 259 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:28.320 for education. I'm not sure that folks in this community 260 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:33.519 understand that Edmund Gordon was a founder of head Start, 261 00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:38.559 and that is something again talking about a legend. 262 00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:40.480 National head Start, yes. 263 00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:41.519 National Start, yes. 264 00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:48.000 But in another great Joe Allen documentary on doctor Gordon 265 00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:51.039 as well too. Yes, yes, you know. 266 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:55.600 There's doctor Francis Pratt. There just so many that we 267 00:16:56.919 --> 00:17:00.720 that for me have been impactful because I have seen 268 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.879 them work, I have seen them continue to speak up 269 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:07.440 and you know, there's that saying that you can't be 270 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:11.200 what you can't see, and so recognizing them all the 271 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:15.720 time and having building relationships with them has also been 272 00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:22.480 instrumental for me personally to be allowed to embrace my courage, 273 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.480 so to speak, and keep going. But you know, the 274 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:29.680 list could go on. We could talk about Willie Troupman, 275 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:35.440 Barbara Williams. 276 00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:42.440 And so many invention and certainly there are just certainly 277 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:44.920 so many. You know, it's a good segue back to 278 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:49.160 Bill as well too, because and you mentioned first of 279 00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:51.279 all the sense of place and how important it is 280 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:55.000 to have literally the place, losing the school in Hillburn 281 00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:57.799 for example. So I think it's a good opportunity to 282 00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:01.880 talk about how you managed to preserve a very important 283 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:05.960 place literally, and that was Mount Moore Cemetery, which is 284 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:09.160 literally this if people are not familiar with it, the 285 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:11.759 Palisades Mall, which was one of it in its day, 286 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:15.519 the one of the largest countries in the largest malls 287 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:20.880 in the country, surrounds this tiny historic black cemetery and 288 00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:24.119 they almost try to goggle it up. But through your 289 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:26.759 efforts and the efforts of others in the black community, 290 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:30.319 it was saved. Talk a little bit about the preservation efforts, 291 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:33.880 why it was important then and still is today. 292 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:37.680 Bill Well, I can't take any credit for saving it 293 00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:42.319 because back in the I guess late eighties, mid eighties, 294 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:45.039 when that fight was taking place, I was hanging out 295 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:45.480 in malls. 296 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:49.880 I wasn't fighting to save malls. I was a young person. 297 00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:53.720 But this is a story about hesee Kai Easter and 298 00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:59.640 Janita Holland, I'm sorry, Jacquelin Holland, and at least a 299 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:04.279 crow oh and a group of people who were confronted 300 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:10.400 with a battle against one of the largest corporations in America. 301 00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:15.440 And it's familiar. And you know, I keep thinking that. 302 00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:20.960 We feel sometimes that we are being disrespected when our 303 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:24.240 history is being erased that somehow people are suggesting that 304 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:29.440 we're inferior. I would like to propose a different perspective. 305 00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:32.240 I think it's the exact opposite. I think that our 306 00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:36.759 history is a threat. I think that the successful resistance 307 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:41.599 and resilience of our community threatens authoritarians. So it has 308 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:45.400 to be denigrated and it has to be disappeared because 309 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:48.720 they don't want people to know that a group of 310 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:52.400 men and women with no resources could fight off the 311 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:57.519 efforts of an army of lawyers with bulldozers and corrupt 312 00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:04.880 intent and and uh successfully preserve a burial ground, a 313 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:11.400 modest burial ground, and that fight was successfully won. Heze 314 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:15.119 KaiA Easter, who led the fight, is the last man 315 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:21.079 buried at Mount Moore. He's buried beside his wife, Ruth Easter, 316 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:24.240 who was a contemporary of Martin Luther King. That the 317 00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:29.160 greatness and in this community is a direct connection to 318 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:32.839 some of the greatest figures in American history, like right now, 319 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.319 so in Hillburn we have a connection to Thurgood Marshall 320 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:37.680 and Mount Moore, we have a connection to Martin Luther King. 321 00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:39.039 Some of the. 322 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:43.240 Men buried at Mount Moore witnessed the surrender of Robert E. 323 00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:48.000 Lee. That's Solomon Miller. 324 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:52.319 Solomon Miller was a Civil Wars Revolutionary War. 325 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:54.759 There are there are a dozen Civil War veterans buried 326 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:57.400 at Mount Moore. And what we're trying to do now 327 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:00.759 is to say that there are twenty four million. 328 00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:02.680 People that visit the Palisades Mall. 329 00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:05.240 Now, it's interesting the company that tried to take us 330 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:08.799 out on Pyramid Corporation, they wanted to bury the cemetery, 331 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:12.599 but in truth, the cemetery buried them because they're bankrupt 332 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:17.279 their history and we still exist. And we would like 333 00:21:17.319 --> 00:21:21.559 to think that maybe if one percent, if two hundred 334 00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:24.359 and forty thousand people a year that went to the 335 00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:27.880 mall were diverted or were given an opportunity to come 336 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:31.000 to the cemetery, they would learn about American history in 337 00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:36.160 a way that wouldn't only make events that are considered 338 00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:40.000 sometimes far away in time and space approximate, so it 339 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:43.039 would make them really stand on the ground that's hallowed 340 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:45.599 by those that fought in the Civil War. Not only that, 341 00:21:45.640 --> 00:21:48.200 but it would tell a story of resistance and resilience 342 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.440 that is relevant to every community and very relevant in 343 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:51.799 the world. 344 00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:56.519 Right now, you know, we'll talk a little bit about 345 00:21:57.160 --> 00:22:01.480 the challenges that remain, not only not only from without, 346 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:02.200 and we're. 347 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:02.680 Going to get to that. 348 00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:03.079 Uh. 349 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:07.839 And you mentioned plaques being removed, names being removed, Colin 350 00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:12.319 Powell's name, for example, being removed from honor rolls. So 351 00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:16.519 it's it's an ongoing effort. Uh. So so there's those 352 00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:19.079 are some of the external things. But what do you 353 00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:24.279 see as some of the internal pressures within the black community, uh, 354 00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:27.640 that need to be addressed and some of the possible solutions. 355 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:30.359 Why didn't you take that first, doctor Dana. 356 00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:43.319 I think one of the internal pressures pressures, uh, might 357 00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:47.319 be this sense of invisibility. 358 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:49.039 And by that, I mean. 359 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:56.839 There has been a great deal of concern, especially in 360 00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:02.559 a time of election or preparing for elections or campaigning. 361 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:05.640 There seems to be a great deal of concern that 362 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:16.240 the black voice is not heard. And I translate that 363 00:23:16.279 --> 00:23:20.559 into a sense of them being invisible, right because of 364 00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:24.319 thoughts that may or may not be true, or they 365 00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:28.319 don't vote, oh they can't vote, or they don't care, 366 00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:29.839 or whatever it is. 367 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:31.599 And so I don't think there is there has been 368 00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:32.799 an active. 369 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:40.680 Involvement to get the black vote, and I think that 370 00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:44.680 that is of a major concern to the black community 371 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:47.920 because when you don't spend the time to sit and 372 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:54.839 listen to what their concerns are, right, then why or 373 00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:57.400 how do they know who they should vote for? How 374 00:23:57.400 --> 00:23:59.799 do they know who shares their values? If no one 375 00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:03.640 will comes into the community, no one really shares their 376 00:24:03.720 --> 00:24:06.960 values in the community, then I feel like that is 377 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:11.000 one of the greatest challenges facing us, because then there 378 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:15.319 is trickle down effect. Right, So whoever gets the office 379 00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:20.240 does not represent your values, and that then trickles down 380 00:24:20.359 --> 00:24:24.640 to lack of affordability, or a lack of access to education, 381 00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:29.079 or a lack of services that you need for your 382 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:31.400 health care and or to feed your family. 383 00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:37.319 Right. So, I think that there really is a concern. 384 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:44.279 That the the black voices collectively are not are not 385 00:24:44.359 --> 00:24:49.279 being heard. 386 00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:54.000 I mean, I hear the question, Frank, but I think 387 00:24:54.039 --> 00:24:55.920 that you know, black people are no different than any 388 00:24:55.960 --> 00:24:58.039 other people. So the pressures that we feel are the 389 00:24:58.039 --> 00:25:00.599 pressures that everybody feels, trying to make a living, trying 390 00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:01.559 to make meaning. 391 00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:03.079 Trying to find peace. 392 00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:06.519 But what's happened in our country is that you know, 393 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:10.880 from its founding, from its inception, we have been a 394 00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:15.960 part of our degradation and and and and kind of 395 00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:19.079 stealing of our labor and and and and stealing of 396 00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:22.599 our uh uh, you know, of our our spirit and 397 00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:25.680 stealing of our culture has been a constant. And what's 398 00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:29.519 happened now, which is terrifying, is that it's become kind 399 00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:33.880 of almost like an algorithm. It's become accelerated, and it's 400 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:38.119 become amplified, and there's almost like this now economy around hate. 401 00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:41.480