Speaker 1: Think about it.
Speaker 2: People pray for answers, they don't get them. And since
Speaker 2: his Father's Day, let me ask you a question. How
Speaker 2: many calls does a father miss before we stop calling
Speaker 2: him attentive? How many text messages go unanswered before we
Speaker 2: call it ghosting? And how many times can a child
Speaker 2: cry out for guidance, comfort, reassurance or even just a
Speaker 2: response before people start questioning the relationship. Because when it
Speaker 2: comes to God, the Father, people have been calling for
Speaker 2: thousands of years. They've been praying, begging, crying, waiting and listening,
Speaker 2: and for a lot of people it just feels like
Speaker 2: it's going to voicemail. Meanwhile, AI picks up on the
Speaker 2: first ring. Again, that doesn't mean that AI is right.
Speaker 2: Oftentimes it is very wrong, but it does mean that
Speaker 2: it responds and people ask difficult questions, they get told
Speaker 2: to have faith, they ask for clarity, they get mystery,
Speaker 2: and meanwhile they open AI and they get an immediate response,
Speaker 2: right or wrong. They're getting engagement. Have people stopped listening
Speaker 2: to God or have they spent years listening and never
Speaker 2: heard anything back? And today, on Father's Day, maybe the
Speaker 2: question isn't whether people are abandoning God. Maybe the question
Speaker 2: is where the people got tired of waiting by the phone.
Speaker 2: Is Ai becoming the new God or is Ai simply
Speaker 2: answering calls that God never returned. If you are a believer,
Speaker 2: I want to hear from you. If you think prayer
Speaker 2: answers questions better than Ai, call in. If you think
Speaker 2: Ai is leading people away from God, call in. And
Speaker 2: if you've been wrestling with doubts that you were never
Speaker 2: allowed to voice, call in. And if you thank God.
Speaker 1: The father has been ghosting his.
Speaker 2: Children from millennia and Ai has finally answered the call,
Speaker 2: definitely call in. I'm your host Thinker, and the Atheist
Speaker 2: Experience starts right now. Welcome everybody. Today is Jump twenty first,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. It is Father's Day and we want
Speaker 2: to welcome you all to the Atheist Experience.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2: I'm your host Thinker, and joining me today is Zina Maggie.
Speaker 2: How are you doing, Zina.
Speaker 3: I'm doing wonderful, Thinker.
Speaker 2: How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm doing good.
Speaker 2: I'm excited to have you on the show today. I
Speaker 2: know we've been looking forward to this all month long.
Speaker 3: Yes, same here, show everybody.
Speaker 2: Your shirt because that this is like the perfect opening
Speaker 2: for Father's Day.
Speaker 3: You know, I just oh, there goes my heart there,
Speaker 3: it goes right there. This is my true heartbeat.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I just think that submissive men are the best men.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would have to agree.
Speaker 3: I would have to agree.
Speaker 2: I went to a wedding yesterday and I love my
Speaker 2: new sister in law, but like listening to the vowels
Speaker 2: and the submissiveness and it all, I just wish they
Speaker 2: would take that part out because I don't think love
Speaker 2: requires submission and it doesn't. Yeah, yeah, tell everybody about
Speaker 2: you well.
Speaker 3: I host shows on TikTok Live. We talk about an
Speaker 3: array of options. I typically focus on community oriented things lately,
Speaker 3: just you know, talking about purity culture, which has been
Speaker 3: an interesting conversation. I also do some fundraising for the
Speaker 3: community as well. So I'm thinking about trying to start
Speaker 3: a nonprofit, so fingers crossed on that will be doing
Speaker 3: that by the end of this year.
Speaker 2: And yes, it's non profitly going to be like finding
Speaker 2: missing children. I know you do that. You share the
Speaker 2: information about missing children as well as raising money for
Speaker 2: people in the community, and.
Speaker 1: So is that what your nonprofit is going to be about?
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yes, it is definitely going to be towards those efforts.
Speaker 3: You know, when I was really focused on the missing children,
Speaker 3: something that really bothered me was that the lack of
Speaker 3: response from like police stations or anybody that had any
Speaker 3: like courts, right, Like you could usually go to courts
Speaker 3: and get some type of documents things like that, but
Speaker 3: the response back takes so long, and I want to
Speaker 3: find a way to speed up that communication gap, Right,
Speaker 3: How can I foster relationship with those counties and things
Speaker 3: of that nature so that they are able to get
Speaker 3: us what we need, so that we can help put
Speaker 3: the word out with facts over feelings about a case
Speaker 3: or about a missing child, and specifically focusing on brown
Speaker 3: and black children. You know that that is what I'm
Speaker 3: honing in on. So well, I.
Speaker 2: Think that's a yeah, I think that's pretty pretty cool.
Speaker 2: How did you get started with deconstruction and doing deconstruction lives?
Speaker 2: And oh so.
Speaker 3: That was with my sister Rhea. So it you know
Speaker 3: back in the day, Mama Africa, my good friend Andbria Rhea,
Speaker 3: we used to go live and we would talk about
Speaker 3: Christianity and how it is a colonistic, a colial colonialistic
Speaker 3: basically death cult, right, how it just warps your brain.
Speaker 3: And together we were like, this doesn't make sense to us,
Speaker 3: but we wanted to have community. We didn't want to
Speaker 3: just be alone in our homes, you know, deconstructing this
Speaker 3: by ourselves. So we started to host lives about real
Speaker 3: topics about like, why is this god who belongs to
Speaker 3: a different culture acceptable for somebody who looks like me? Right,
Speaker 3: what's the benefit? Because all I see is slavery, kidnapping,
Speaker 3: you know, a lot of horrific things that have happened.
Speaker 3: So that's why we wanted to voice our opinions and
Speaker 3: also see if other people were feeling the same way
Speaker 3: that we're in the black community, but also other communities
Speaker 3: as well, right, not just the Black community. And I
Speaker 3: have found that, so you know, that's when I kind
Speaker 3: of started looking at you. Ria put me on to
Speaker 3: you thinker, which was awesome, and I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: this is where I want to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: But Ria and nine started together and she went viral
Speaker 2: for asking that question if the oppressor and the oppress
Speaker 2: are serving the same guy whose prayers are getting answered?
Speaker 3: And I reached out to her.
Speaker 1: I was like, holy shit, somebody thinks like me.
Speaker 2: And I reached out. I was like, do you want
Speaker 2: to go live? And we went live that night and
Speaker 2: I think you came in the same night.
Speaker 3: She told me. She was like, she was like, I
Speaker 3: met this lady named Thinker, and y'all when I tell
Speaker 3: you she is the truth, I probably still have this
Speaker 3: text message from it. But like, when you said she
Speaker 3: is the truth, I was like, well, let me go
Speaker 3: check her out, and we I think one of the
Speaker 3: first couple of lives you have, Vessel was on there,
Speaker 3: I think, and they were talking about African spirituality and
Speaker 3: I was like, no, you can't go after African spirituality.
Speaker 2: I was like no, because you were you were you
Speaker 2: were kind of in that. Yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was like, no, it still has some like
Speaker 3: truth and now I'm like fuck it all, Like, oh well,
Speaker 3: none of that shit.
Speaker 2: But yes, yeah, Well, I'm glad to have you on
Speaker 2: the show today. I'm really excited. We do have a
Speaker 2: call waiting, so I'm gonna go ahead and get this
Speaker 2: out the way. The Atheas Experience is a product of
Speaker 2: the Atheist Community of Austin, five oh one c three
Speaker 2: non profit organization dedicated to the promotion of atheism critical
Speaker 2: thinking secular humanism and the separation of religion and government.
Speaker 2: This means that you can give a tax free donation
Speaker 2: as many as you want in fact, and know that
Speaker 2: it's going to a good cause, but also that it
Speaker 2: keeps you too.
Speaker 1: That it helps you to not keeps you.
Speaker 3: It helps you.
Speaker 2: We don't want to keep you. We aren't trying streaming tonight,
Speaker 2: So a big shout out to our viewers on TikTok
Speaker 2: and YouTube. If you're watching us tonight on TikTok, you'd
Speaker 2: like to talk to us, then request to join up
Speaker 2: and we'll bring you up on stage. Please make sure
Speaker 2: that you are over eighteen years of age before doing so.
Speaker 2: Our first call today is with Hannah, who is a
Speaker 2: pen theist. Is they want to talk about why pantheism
Speaker 2: is true? Hannah, Hi, you're in the atheist experience.
Speaker 1: How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm doing well?
Speaker 5: Can I just curtify something about my position really quick?
Speaker 5: Because I think there's a linguistic confusion here. I'm not
Speaker 5: a pantheist. I'm a pen atheist.
Speaker 2: A pen atheist. Oh okay, yes, okay, explain that for
Speaker 2: me please.
Speaker 5: So I believe that God is both. I believe all
Speaker 5: of the physical universe is part of God. But then
Speaker 5: God is also a transcendent of the physical universe.
Speaker 2: Okay, And so you believe that all of the universe
Speaker 2: is God, but God is also transcendent of the physical universe.
Speaker 2: So God is bigger than the universe or beyond the universe.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I just kind of wanted to explain why if
Speaker 5: that's okay, and then if you could, you know, provide
Speaker 5: why you don't accept that idea, that would also be great.
Speaker 1: Sure, go ahead and explain why.
Speaker 5: So my argument is as follows. Premise one. There either
Speaker 5: something is conceived through itself or it's conceived through something else.
Speaker 5: Premise too. If something is conceived through something else, it
Speaker 5: is an attribute and not a substance.
Speaker 6: Premise three.
Speaker 2: Hold on, let me write down your premises please. What
Speaker 2: that Premise one is something is either conceived of itself.
Speaker 2: Is that what you said?
Speaker 5: Yeah, these are conceived of itself, or it's conceived through
Speaker 5: something else.
Speaker 1: Okay, Premise to.
Speaker 4: Come two.
Speaker 5: If it's conceived through something else, it's an attribute, and
Speaker 5: if it's conceived through itself, it's a substance.
Speaker 2: If it's conceived of itself as an attribute, And then
Speaker 2: what is the second part if what.
Speaker 5: If it's conceived of itself, it's a substance, and it's
Speaker 5: conceived through something else, it's an attribute.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's a substance.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 4: Three is.
Speaker 5: Uh, promistery is? No two substances considered can share the
Speaker 5: same attributes, because if two substances share the same attributes,
Speaker 5: then they would be the same substance. So substance necessarily
Speaker 5: has to have a unique attribute that makes it a
Speaker 5: unique substance.
Speaker 2: Okay, Premise one.
Speaker 5: The next premises there must be a necessary substance with
Speaker 5: infinite attributes because nothingness doesn't exist to confound the substance.
Speaker 2: Sorry, there must be a necessary substance to contain the
Speaker 2: attribute because what.
Speaker 5: Because nothingness doesn't exist to confound the substance?
Speaker 3: Okay? Is that all?
Speaker 5: And then the conclusion is, therefore there must be one
Speaker 5: substance with infinite attributes that we call God.
Speaker 2: I think I'm like, already I don't understand, Like I
Speaker 2: already reject the conclusion because even if even if from
Speaker 2: its one, two, three, and four was correct, like, that
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that we would have to call that substance God.
Speaker 2: I don't understand that.
Speaker 5: So the reason that I would call that substance God
Speaker 5: is because if a substance has infinite attributes, then that
Speaker 5: substance with incident attributes would necessarily have the powers that
Speaker 5: we associate with God, namely being infinite and being omnipresent
Speaker 5: and and so and omni omnipotent, omnipresent and on the benevolent,
Speaker 5: because those are all traits that follow from the necessity
Speaker 5: of being infinite.
Speaker 2: I mean, would you say that whether was infinite and omnipresent?
Speaker 5: Well, no, whether is not infinite but finite.
Speaker 2: Like well, well, yeah, that's that's true. I'm trying to
Speaker 2: think that's true. Uh, let's see. I still don't think
Speaker 2: that you would have to call the universe God.
Speaker 5: But if it's infinite and it has infinite attributes, does
Speaker 5: that not make it at least closer to God?
Speaker 2: I mean, but man, define the word God right like
Speaker 2: you get Man gave these acts tributes to this thing
Speaker 2: that we call God. We don't know what God is,
Speaker 2: and there are gods in antiquity or in history that
Speaker 2: haven't they didn't have these omni properties and like, honestly,
Speaker 2: the properties that humans have given this idea of God
Speaker 2: right of all knowing, right, you can't say that the
Speaker 2: universe is all knowing.
Speaker 5: Well, the physical universe is not all knowing, but the
Speaker 5: substance would have to be all knowing because of the
Speaker 5: fact that the substance is infinite. That the substance is
Speaker 5: infinite would have to contain all knowledge.
Speaker 1: When you say this, but how would you know that? Though?
Speaker 2: How would you know the knowledge that the universe holds?
Speaker 1: Is what I'm saying.
Speaker 5: Well, I couldn't know all of the knowledge that the
Speaker 5: universe holds because I am finite.
Speaker 6: But I know.
Speaker 5: But the reason I know that the existence as a
Speaker 5: whole must now contain all knowledge is because, by definition,
Speaker 5: if existence is infinite and it contains all knowledge, that's
Speaker 5: what incinity means.
Speaker 4: It means containing all.
Speaker 1: I still don't see how you can call it God though.
Speaker 5: Okay, so we have an all knowing, all powerful substance
Speaker 5: which created the physical universe?
Speaker 2: Is that not God? When you say that, no, it's not,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's the universe.
Speaker 1: I still don't understand how you're calling it God.
Speaker 4: I mean, has.
Speaker 5: Well, it's maybe it's a matter of definition, but I
Speaker 5: would say that if something is infinite and has all
Speaker 5: no knowledge, then it is God.
Speaker 1: But why does it have to be God?
Speaker 2: Like, I don't, I don't understand it. Like, would you
Speaker 2: say life has all knowledge?
Speaker 5: Life does not have all knowledge because life is finite.
Speaker 2: It, but it does have like life is existence?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 5: No, life is not existence. Life is an attribute of existence.
Speaker 2: So when something is alive, it doesn't exist. So when
Speaker 2: someone is alive, right, they are existing?
Speaker 6: Yes?
Speaker 2: Okay, and so this thing called existence, right, which is life?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Would you say that it has all knowledge? Would you
Speaker 2: say existence has all knowledge?
Speaker 5: All of existence has all knowledge by definition?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 2: And so existence is what you're calling God.
Speaker 5: Well, specifically the substance that is infinite. I'm calling God.
Speaker 2: The the substance that is infinite.
Speaker 1: So you're calling.
Speaker 2: Infinite I like, I don't, I don't know. I think
Speaker 2: this is unnecessary, Like it doesn't make sense to have
Speaker 2: to call existence the substance of existence God or the
Speaker 2: substance of the universe God.
Speaker 1: I think it's unnecessary and.
Speaker 2: It definitely doesn't prove that it's the Christian God or
Speaker 2: you know, the Abrahamic God.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm not arguing specifically for the Abrahemic God. I'm
Speaker 5: arguing that God exists, And the reason that I'm calling
Speaker 5: the infinite substance God is because it has the contribute
Speaker 5: of being infinite and all knowing and all knowing. Infinite
Speaker 5: being is God.
Speaker 2: But you're calling the universe of being. Do you see
Speaker 2: what I'm saying? You're calling existence of being? You're calling
Speaker 2: like it. I don't understand the need to do that, Like,
Speaker 2: I agree, right that one could look at, uh, the
Speaker 2: attributes of the universe. That could look at the attributes
Speaker 2: of nature and say, okay, this is what people consider.
Speaker 1: To be God.
Speaker 2: Right, the universe doesn't doesn't make promises.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: We could say that the universe has all knowledge. However,
Speaker 2: we wouldn't have any idea, uh, you know, of being
Speaker 2: able to prove.
Speaker 1: That or even tap into that.
Speaker 2: We could say, you know, existence is omnipresent. I don't
Speaker 2: see the need right of calling it God. I don't
Speaker 2: even see the need of needing an idea of a God, Like,
Speaker 2: what what does.
Speaker 3: That do for you?
Speaker 5: Well? To me, the reason that it's important to name
Speaker 5: the substance that is infinite and has infinite.
Speaker 4: Attributes to God is.
Speaker 5: Because traditionally God is conceived as that which is infinite
Speaker 5: has all knowledge and created the physical universe. And because
Speaker 5: of these things, I would consider that God. But this
Speaker 5: is like a spinosis conception. But if you don't accept
Speaker 5: that definition of God, that's fine. But many, but many
Speaker 5: people would call that God.
Speaker 2: No, they wouldn't. Many people think that God is actually
Speaker 2: a being who can talk back to them.
Speaker 1: The universe does not talk back.
Speaker 2: The universe does not make promises, the universe does not
Speaker 2: intentionally punish. That's not what people are calling God. And
Speaker 2: I think that's the issue that I'm having because I
Speaker 2: can see, I can see the connection that you're making
Speaker 2: with the omni properties. Right. I reject the need to
Speaker 2: call it God because that is a a human concept
Speaker 2: to UH that had that has basically been UH personified
Speaker 2: to explain these things right within within this finite world.
Speaker 2: Does that make sense? So it's like it's anthropomorphizing the universe.
Speaker 1: When you call it God.
Speaker 5: If you don't want to call it, okay, So let
Speaker 5: me ask you this. If you don't, if you don't
Speaker 5: believe it's God, if you don't believe it should be
Speaker 5: called God or named God, and fine, but do you
Speaker 5: at least the acknowledge that the universe is incident and
Speaker 5: must have infinite attributes because of the syllogism that I gave.
Speaker 2: No, I agree right that the universe is infinite. I
Speaker 2: agree that the universe would hold all knowledge, and like
Speaker 2: that's why I said. The only thing I reject is
Speaker 2: you calling it God.
Speaker 5: Okay, So if you accept it it's incident that has
Speaker 5: infinite attributes and that has all knowledge, then we then
Speaker 5: I think essentially we philosophically agree, but I would disagree
Speaker 5: in calling it God. So perhaps unless your co hosts
Speaker 5: have something to say, I don't think I want to
Speaker 5: continue this conversation because I don't think it would be
Speaker 5: very productive in arguing semantics.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Zenna, do you have anything. I just
Speaker 2: don't see the point, Like, I don't. I don't see
Speaker 2: the point of you needing to call it God because
Speaker 2: it's not like the universe is going to talk back
Speaker 2: to you. It's not like the un of us has
Speaker 2: promised you anything. Like it does not fit what most
Speaker 2: people uh on their earth today is calling God and
Speaker 2: is believing that they're engaging with like you're not.
Speaker 1: Like, I just don't see the point.
Speaker 2: But I mean, I definitely look at the universe as
Speaker 2: you know, something that is infinite. It definitely will contain
Speaker 2: all knowledge. I just don't think that we can engage
Speaker 2: with it in a way where we can understand, right,
Speaker 2: like what the universe is trying to say to us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that if something already has a label,
Speaker 3: if I feel like this is phil bro god of
Speaker 3: the gaps, talk like this is this is how, this
Speaker 3: is what I'm right, this is what I feel like,
Speaker 3: this is because we understand and I do like this syllogism,
Speaker 3: right that you know, you said that life has attributes
Speaker 3: and you attribute those things to God. They seem to match, right,
Speaker 3: But we already have a fundamental understanding of those things.
Speaker 3: Why do we need to, like think or said, actually
Speaker 3: have a being be at the center of that, right,
Speaker 3: I think it's weird. I don't know. Then I do agree.
Speaker 3: I think this may be a good point to separate
Speaker 3: ways if you want to, because you're not talking about
Speaker 3: the Christian God, right, because we know that that God
Speaker 3: does not exhibit all omni properties, even though people like
Speaker 3: to label it with such. We have other gods, to
Speaker 3: Thinker's point, that do not have the omni properties. So
Speaker 3: trying to make life a god, it seems a little weird.
Speaker 3: It seems like you just don't like what we have now,
Speaker 3: which is of you know, life is just experiencing time, right,
Speaker 3: Like I don't, I don't get anything.
Speaker 2: He's saying life is. I don't think he's saying life
Speaker 2: is the God. I think he's saying the infinite of
Speaker 2: the infinite attributes of the universe is life.
Speaker 3: Like one of that is God.
Speaker 2: Well, he's saying that that's the infinite attributes of the
Speaker 2: innerverse of the universe is God. Is what makes it God?
Speaker 2: Because it's infinite, it contains all knowledge. But like what
Speaker 2: I really want to know the why behind it? Though,
Speaker 2: if you can help me understand that, I can understand
Speaker 2: where argument is semantic here, but I want to know
Speaker 2: the why, Like why do you need to call it God?
Speaker 2: That's what I'm interested in.
Speaker 5: Well, the main So just to clarify, I'm not saying
Speaker 5: one of the attributes of the universe is God. I'm
Speaker 5: saying God is the same as.
Speaker 4: All of existence, and you.
Speaker 5: Can call that the universe, although not just the physical universe,
Speaker 5: would be every attribute of the infinite.
Speaker 6: Substance right out of that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the reason I call what God is because historically
Speaker 5: it's many philosophers and scientists like Albert Einstein and Berkshpanozza
Speaker 5: had considered this, you know, all encompassing, infant substance to
Speaker 5: be God. And so because of this tradition, I basically
Speaker 5: adopt the panantheist tradition. But if you just don't consider
Speaker 5: that a form of God, that's fine.
Speaker 1: So you don't feel like you need a god? Though?
Speaker 1: Is that like you don't feel you.
Speaker 2: Don't feel like you need to have an explanation for
Speaker 2: your existence and it has to be a God.
Speaker 1: It can't just be existence, So it can't just be.
Speaker 5: I'm saying, I just can I'm saying I just consider
Speaker 5: existence itself to be God. But if you don't accept
Speaker 5: the definition, then we can we can move on.
Speaker 2: Right When I said that earlier, you said that that's
Speaker 2: what you were talking about. But I'm asking, like, I
Speaker 2: understand that you accept existence to be God. Existence is
Speaker 2: all it is, right and no one can.
Speaker 1: Deny that right.
Speaker 2: I just what I'm trying to understand is why it
Speaker 2: can't just be called existence? Why do you need to
Speaker 2: label it god? Is My question? Is it because it explains?
Speaker 2: Is it answering some things for you? By calling it God.
Speaker 5: So no, it's not because I feel the need to
Speaker 5: have a relationship with it or call it God because
Speaker 5: of that.
Speaker 4: It's because of.
Speaker 5: The fact that historically things that have to try the
Speaker 5: omnis and omni benevolent characteristics are called God.
Speaker 2: Something that comes from Christianity though those that that's what
Speaker 2: I'm saying, that comes from Christianity, and the Christian God
Speaker 2: does not have those those properties. The Christian God does
Speaker 2: not know all things. The Christian God is an omnipresent.
Speaker 2: So like the these homni properties are not attributed to
Speaker 2: every God in history, those properties are attributed to the
Speaker 2: Christian God.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so then if that's the case, I think we're
Speaker 5: just gonna have to agree to disagree about what to
Speaker 5: call it. But I'm glad we agree that the universe
Speaker 5: is infinite. So in the meanwhile, I wish you a
Speaker 5: good day. But I don't think this is going to
Speaker 5: be a very productive conversation.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, we're not, okay, have a good way. I
Speaker 2: don't understand, Like, what's the point of calling in to
Speaker 2: say the universe is infinite? Did we not know that already?
Speaker 1: And then like you need to call a.
Speaker 2: God Like I don't understand that, and I think that's
Speaker 2: the more interesting conversation.
Speaker 3: But thank you for calling. Yeah, that's why I was like,
Speaker 3: you're phil brow gout of the gaps, like you're just rewording,
Speaker 3: remaking things fitting God where you want to. You reject
Speaker 3: Christian God, so you're literally making up your own God
Speaker 3: by calling God the universe but with the attributes, right,
Speaker 3: because he said I still have his syllogism that the
Speaker 3: attributes that you're giving this God or giving the universe
Speaker 3: this God does not have and does not consistently show,
Speaker 3: So to say that it is a god, it's very weird,
Speaker 3: Like I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't get it, and I didn't know what the
Speaker 2: fuck to call the.
Speaker 1: I don't think supremeatory is in the box on purpose?
Speaker 2: Suprematory? Are you in the request on purpose?
Speaker 3: On TikTok?
Speaker 2: The events that happened in the within the other planets,
Speaker 2: like I'm sure they don't call it weather, but there's
Speaker 2: ship that happens, right, there's storms, meteorite showers and all that.
Speaker 2: But so when you when that shit happens, it's not
Speaker 2: called weather, but would you say that that is also omnipresent,
Speaker 2: like ship like that happens all over the universe, right,
Speaker 2: And so I don't I got I don't. I don't
Speaker 2: get it. I don't. I don't get the point in that,
Speaker 2: and the fact that he would not go into why
Speaker 2: he needs it to why he needs to call it God,
Speaker 2: I don't know. All right, y'all go ahead and give
Speaker 2: us a call at where's the number five one two
Speaker 2: nine nine nine two four to two, or you can
Speaker 2: go to TikTok and request we do want to talk
Speaker 2: about whether God is the ultimate debbe dad today. And
Speaker 2: I think that in the the Vidic Kingdom time, he
Speaker 2: would have gotten a gold medal because he helped his
Speaker 2: son get up.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, like that's what dads do. Like you're my son
Speaker 3: has just ran over somebody. My son ain't going to jail.
Speaker 3: He's my favorite. I got money, honey, Like no, so yeah,
Speaker 3: like his kids were what Samson? He possessing Sampson let
Speaker 3: him murk a whole bunch of people, got Abraham pimping people.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 2: I saw a post on YouTube that talked about how
Speaker 2: Abraham was a protective husband. Then they said David was
Speaker 2: a righteous husband.
Speaker 3: Don't make me laugh. How did you explain that Abraham
Speaker 3: was a protective husband.
Speaker 2: It was. It was one of those posts like I
Speaker 2: didn't really you know what I did. I screenshot it
Speaker 2: because you know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna make
Speaker 2: a video. Because Abraham pimped his wife, like there's no way,
Speaker 2: like you pimped his wife. Then he taught his son
Speaker 2: how to pimp his wife, right. And then he had
Speaker 2: a baby mama that he kicked out because his wife
Speaker 2: got jealous of the baby mama. He kicked her out
Speaker 2: and the child and sent them out with some bread
Speaker 2: and a kind of water, and they lived in the desert.
Speaker 2: And then somehow his God goes ay, you gotta go.
Speaker 2: You can't stay here, but I promise you, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: take care of the baby. Down the line, he's gonna
Speaker 2: get child's board. When Abraham died, he got nothing. When
Speaker 2: Abraham died, he did not get any of the inheritance.
Speaker 2: But he was a protective husband, and why no.
Speaker 5: And then.
Speaker 2: The David, being a righteous husband.
Speaker 3: He cheated on his wives that he already had with
Speaker 3: Dshiba because him and that Sheeba were not married.
Speaker 2: So he added uh, he just added Bethsheba to his
Speaker 2: cerema wives like he just he after he abused his
Speaker 2: power as king to sleep with her, to hide what
Speaker 2: he did. He kills her husband and then just throws
Speaker 2: her to the harem, like ask her to the horrem
Speaker 2: of wines?
Speaker 1: Where like, where are they getting this stuff from?
Speaker 4: That?
Speaker 2: These men were protective and righteous and it was it
Speaker 2: was one more Joe. The only one I agreed with
Speaker 2: was Joe. And they called him the enduring husband, and
Speaker 2: he did. He was an enduring husband. He did endure.
Speaker 1: He did not die.
Speaker 2: She washed his bulls.
Speaker 3: He just told her.
Speaker 2: You know, women hushed her mouth. We just we serve
Speaker 2: God around here.
Speaker 1: He did not.
Speaker 2: God did not kill his wife. So I don't know
Speaker 2: if it was because of Joe. I don't know, but
Speaker 2: he he endured to the end.
Speaker 3: I mean, but didn't she have to go work and stuff?
Speaker 2: Like they don't know that.
Speaker 1: They don't they don't know that.
Speaker 2: They don't need this up to it.
Speaker 3: Okay, they don't know that, right. I'm just because she
Speaker 3: was out there while he was, you know, busting boils
Speaker 3: in his booty hole, like she was out there making
Speaker 3: some stuff shape.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, they don't know that though, you know, they
Speaker 1: don't do no research, they don't.
Speaker 2: They don't because I'm like sho, but it says he
Speaker 2: didn't endure, Like the only reason why they called him
Speaker 2: the enduring husband is because his story is about faith.
Speaker 2: But I mean, I they just be telling these people
Speaker 2: anything and they just bite bite bite on it. Because
Speaker 2: nowhere in this Bible where David and Bethsheba are seen
Speaker 2: in love, like, you don't see that. And she takes
Speaker 2: she becomes queen when Solomon uh becomes king, like she
Speaker 2: becomes the queen mother, and Solomon puts her at his
Speaker 2: right hand.
Speaker 3: He bows to her in front of.
Speaker 2: Everybody, which was it's not supposed to happen. He bows
Speaker 2: to her in front of everybody. It makes her his
Speaker 2: right hand, and she becomes the queen mother and she
Speaker 2: runs the whole kingdom.
Speaker 3: That's because she had she had a plan. She was
Speaker 3: weighing David out. I think he spoke about that right
Speaker 3: about it. Yes, yes, yes was bad. She was revenge
Speaker 3: And I agree with that because you think you're gonna
Speaker 3: make a fool out of me, but you're at your
Speaker 3: I like that a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't know. And then I saw another
Speaker 2: video where there was a pastor in a red he
Speaker 2: had a blood red jacket on with some blood red shoes,
Speaker 2: talking about God. Don't get jealous of me because I
Speaker 2: live in and mentioned my daddy take care of me.
Speaker 2: He said, don't get mad to me because I'm chosen.
Speaker 4: He said.
Speaker 2: When you see me, you see the incarnate of God.
Speaker 3: As well, he's saying he don't like Paul because Paul
Speaker 3: basically said the same ship. He said, you know, I
Speaker 3: forgive your sins, I bless you. That's what Paul was saying.
Speaker 3: We read that the other day. I'm like, ill, why
Speaker 3: would you like, I never understand these pastors who come
Speaker 3: and like they're all fancy and gussied up. Meanwhile, the
Speaker 3: person that's sitting in the back pew had to take
Speaker 3: three buses in a transfer just to get to your church.
Speaker 3: And you're supposed are you blessing people? Are you helping
Speaker 3: your congregation?
Speaker 2: Like that's weird, yeah, but that's why they tell them like,
Speaker 2: don't get jealous. Like they're literally talking to the poor
Speaker 2: people that they're taking the money from, and they're like,
Speaker 2: don't get jealous because I'm chosen. When you see me,
Speaker 2: he said, when you see me, you see the incarnate
Speaker 2: of God. And then what the oppressed does is they
Speaker 2: stitch those videos and they go, that's not God.
Speaker 1: Your father is the devil.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, no, Buck, it's not. That's stay daddy,
Speaker 3: that's stay Daddy.
Speaker 2: They get mad because the crazy thing about it is
Speaker 2: is that what the pastor is saying it's true. That's
Speaker 2: the crazy thing.
Speaker 1: What the pastor is saying.
Speaker 3: It's true.
Speaker 2: He's doing everything that this God says do and says
Speaker 2: to do in this book. But you see the devil
Speaker 2: when you see the pastor doing that, that's because of
Speaker 2: your God.
Speaker 3: You ever heard that song stunning like my daddy. You
Speaker 3: ain't never stun in like by daddy. I'm just studying
Speaker 3: like my daddy age. So that's when you get off here.
Speaker 3: Go listen to that song and think about what we're
Speaker 3: talking about, because they do it kind of stunt, just
Speaker 3: like their daddy, which is God. And then when we
Speaker 3: point out the crazy evil things that their daddy is doing,
Speaker 3: or the fact that their daddy is showing favoritism to
Speaker 3: them but not to others, Oh well, you know, he's
Speaker 3: a special case. It's special. It's special. Okay, interesting, Well,
Speaker 3: all right, y'all.
Speaker 1: Go ahead and give us a call in.
Speaker 2: If you're on YouTube, y'all tap the screen over their
Speaker 2: shall live out. Make sure y'all feed the beasts, do
Speaker 2: all those good things to help get some people.
Speaker 3: In the room.
Speaker 2: We are here with Zenamey and her submissive men shared.
Speaker 2: Let me go ahead and do these announcements. I'd be
Speaker 2: forgetting as a new host.
Speaker 1: Okay, We now have a channel.
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Speaker 2: All right, Zina, tell us about the conversation. Have y'all
Speaker 2: had conversations today about the God the Father?
Speaker 1: I didn't get to join y'all this morning.
Speaker 3: So not about God the Father, but I have had
Speaker 3: conversations about this before where I think last Father's Day,
Speaker 3: I did ask why is God such a dead beat? Like,
Speaker 3: you know, there's a lot of expectations we have for
Speaker 3: human fathers, right, but unfortunately sometimes they just do not
Speaker 3: step up to the plate. And it's just basic things
Speaker 3: like buy some diapers, right, don't think that your babysitting
Speaker 3: your child, spend time with your child, right? Financially, right,
Speaker 3: be prefered financially to help me out with bills or
Speaker 3: anything that comes with raising a child. And then I
Speaker 3: kind of compared it to the Bible, right, and I
Speaker 3: was looking at how God provided for some children, but
Speaker 3: he didn't provide for others. How he showed favoritism to
Speaker 3: some and if a father was doing that on earth,
Speaker 3: you would set them aside and say, hey, you're not
Speaker 3: fostering a loving relationship with your other child, So how
Speaker 3: do you expect right for your other child to see
Speaker 3: you as a hero, to see you as somebody they
Speaker 3: want to look up to. Right, I am that other child.
Speaker 3: Your God, if it really cared for me as a father,
Speaker 3: would show me his love. Right, respect my free will.
Speaker 3: Right they like to call it free will. Respect my
Speaker 3: free will, respect what I want to do. But the
Speaker 3: thing is, it's not. It's going to condemn me. His
Speaker 3: favorite children tell me I'm going to hell. His favorite
Speaker 3: children say that my sexuality is a sin. And I
Speaker 3: don't understand why he neglects us and leads us to
Speaker 3: our own devices when he says that he's not going
Speaker 3: to there's a whole bunch, but it's confusing as hell. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they expect us to ignore that though.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and still call him good, still say that he's
Speaker 2: a good father, which is like, have you ever heard
Speaker 2: someone say that they don't talk bad about the other
Speaker 2: parent in front of the parent, that in front of
Speaker 2: the children, they don't talk about it about.
Speaker 3: The parent that left in front of the children.
Speaker 2: It seems like that is how you know, we've been
Speaker 2: taught to see the God like you can't despite the
Speaker 2: fact that you know this God did not answer your
Speaker 2: phone call when you prayed. You didn't, you know, get
Speaker 2: the Christmas gift that you wanted, the healing that you want.
Speaker 2: Like you can't talk bad about Bruno. You got to
Speaker 2: pretend like he showed up to everything's given to every
Speaker 2: birthday party, to every graduation. Right when you were sick,
Speaker 2: he was there giving you medicine. You don't have to pretend,
Speaker 2: and you have to be both parts of the relationship
Speaker 2: when it comes to this God being a.
Speaker 3: Dad one hundred percent, And it makes me wonder about
Speaker 3: this whole, like providing for us, and that's something that
Speaker 3: I still can't wrap my head around. Right. A lot
Speaker 3: of Christians like to say, well, God so loved the world,
Speaker 3: and we know the other part he gave his only
Speaker 3: begotten son. But if he's truly loving the world, why
Speaker 3: won't he answer our prayers? And then he gets pissed
Speaker 3: off when there are requests that we ask for, right,
Speaker 3: Like God, I need for you to clear out this hospital.
Speaker 3: My cousin's in there. I've got other family, I've got friends.
Speaker 3: I just see children who shouldn't have to experience their
Speaker 3: last moments in debilitating pain. God, clear out this hospital.
Speaker 3: I am your child. I'm coming to you as your child, right.
Speaker 3: But he won't do it. God, I need this bill paid.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: I've been working as hard as I can. You know
Speaker 3: I've been doing my best. I've been saving money, but
Speaker 3: it's just not enough. God. Can you provide for me
Speaker 3: like you promised? And just like a deadbeat father on earth,
Speaker 3: just like one who says I'm gonna come next week
Speaker 3: or I'm gonna get you that PlayStation, right, I promise
Speaker 3: you I'm gonna do it. When you see those promises
Speaker 3: in the Bible not being fulfilled, who is to blame?
Speaker 3: Who is to blame for God's negligence when he doesn't
Speaker 3: do what he says, when he doesn't fulfill the prayer
Speaker 3: that he says, I have the power to ask, ask
Speaker 3: anything in my name, his weird little son said, right,
Speaker 3: and it's going to happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, you have to tell yourself that you actually
Speaker 2: didn't deserve it, like you can't say that he's not
Speaker 2: fulfilling it. You have to say that you didn't deserve it,
Speaker 2: or that he loves you so much. He didn't give
Speaker 2: it to you because it would have been bad for you.
Speaker 2: It would have hurt you in the long run for
Speaker 2: you to get that job for one hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 2: a year, and because he didn't give it to you,
Speaker 2: because he knew that that would make you leave him.
Speaker 2: And he loves you so much one hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 2: in your job would make you leave him, so he
Speaker 2: kept you. He didn't give you eyeglasses like you prayed,
Speaker 2: and you prayed and asked him to bless your earthly
Speaker 2: parents to be able to get you eyeglasses. He answered
Speaker 2: that prayer because he thought, if you see the light,
Speaker 2: you might see the room, what right, and you might
Speaker 2: leave you.
Speaker 3: The light that I see on the road is some
Speaker 3: damn the break lights.
Speaker 2: And I'd be like, oh, you know he had the
Speaker 2: blind and Paul, he had the blind Paul. So Paul
Speaker 2: didn't look over that. Calu is in my head right now.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: He was preaching today. He was he was reading and
Speaker 3: then you're reading a zeque old thinker. Okay, as a father,
Speaker 3: this might kiss some of y'all off. But okay, as
Speaker 3: a father, why would you refer to your children right
Speaker 3: in a manner that is inappropriate?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: If I'm if I am a father to a child,
Speaker 3: I would not talk about my child's body it in
Speaker 3: inappropriate way. I would not talk about how I love
Speaker 3: my child so much? Ah Ezekiel sixteen.
Speaker 2: Right. You know what that reminds me of, though, Ramula's
Speaker 2: Romula's and remis like they were lived on the side
Speaker 2: of the road.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the twins, right, yeah, mm hmm, yeah, mm hmmm.
Speaker 2: I found you.
Speaker 3: Huh No, he like, I'm just saying, He's like, I
Speaker 3: found you, you know, but you're you were already my daddy.
Speaker 3: How are you finding me your child on the side
Speaker 3: of the road. You're gonna clean me up, You're gonna
Speaker 3: adorn me, you're gonna put fragrance on me, You're going
Speaker 3: to take my virginity right, and then you're gonna get
Speaker 3: mad when I want to go explore the world. I
Speaker 3: am your child. And another weird aspect to this whole
Speaker 3: father thing is the fact that we are supposed to
Speaker 3: be a bridegroom. So not only that as your child,
Speaker 3: you're setting me up with your son. I'm supposed to
Speaker 3: be marrying Jesus. The church is supposed to be marrying
Speaker 3: it's brother. Like, that's weird to me. And the fact
Speaker 3: that nobody else finds this weird that you know, he's
Speaker 3: my husband and my brother. And if you believe in
Speaker 3: the trinity, if you're a Trinitarian, he is also God
Speaker 3: marrying his children. That's after up. Does nobody happen to.
Speaker 2: Be talking about that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the unspeakable in the in the book.
Speaker 4: I don't like it.
Speaker 3: It's very creepy. It's very creepy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to say, there is a call in
Speaker 2: the screen room. I don't know if it's ready. Oh,
Speaker 2: super insist is insane?
Speaker 3: Super? You see the chat?
Speaker 2: That is insane?
Speaker 3: Hey on TikTok, y'all.
Speaker 1: Is the is the always ready?
Speaker 2: Okay? This is Tom from Tech says they them, They
Speaker 2: pronounced them. Tom says God is not only a dead
Speaker 2: be dad, he abandons all creations. I would have to
Speaker 2: agree with you there, Tom, Welcome to the atheist experience.
Speaker 1: Any want to stalk this on them?
Speaker 3: Yeah? What's up? Tom? How are you doing today?
Speaker 6: I'm doing all right?
Speaker 7: This is uh.
Speaker 4: I've been watching the show for like maybe like fifteen
Speaker 4: or so odd years, and I just I felt like
Speaker 4: calling in because.
Speaker 6: It was dead and it's a dead conversation, so.
Speaker 4: I thought I'd tried to contribute.
Speaker 3: Well, what are your thoughts? I heard that as they
Speaker 3: were screaming you, you stated not only just to humans,
Speaker 3: but our creation. And I've not even thought about the
Speaker 3: little flouts that.
Speaker 4: It's real, Like I don't, yeah, God, but like if
Speaker 4: they what people say and there is some cosmic creation,
Speaker 4: I don't think that they are currently watching the earth
Speaker 4: and listening to our your podcast right now. I would
Speaker 4: think that if something like that does exist out there,
Speaker 4: and I don't, he would be moving on to much
Speaker 4: interesting things. Like I work on stuff all the time,
Speaker 4: and when I'm done with it, I don't go back
Speaker 4: to it. I move on. And the just he is
Speaker 4: a dead beat dad. He is a dead beat dad
Speaker 4: in every sense of the word, like he abandons creations
Speaker 4: at best, at worst he torments them. But it is
Speaker 4: interesting that there is such a is the previous color
Speaker 4: Head was fascinated with still referring to the universe as
Speaker 4: God and just like having this not affliction affinity for it,
Speaker 4: even though there is not many redeeming qualities outside of
Speaker 4: in the lore of the universe creating existence, which is like, sure,
Speaker 4: we have existence, but it is just.
Speaker 3: Oh, I was gonna say, I so far, I'm with you.
Speaker 3: You've got me, right, because I think that you know,
Speaker 3: sometimes we want things to be greater than ourselves, right,
Speaker 3: we want things to be greater than our own understanding,
Speaker 3: but we can't really put words to that, so we
Speaker 3: just attach a label that feels most comfortable for us.
Speaker 3: Right when it comes to God, I have again this
Speaker 3: is kind of internal critique stuff, but I have such
Speaker 3: a gripe with this God that I tell people all
Speaker 3: the time, Tom, if it comes right now, right here,
Speaker 3: like man, knee caps are gone. I'm so serious because
Speaker 3: you're right, Like, think about the fact that we've gone
Speaker 3: from what global warming to global boiling? Right, We're at
Speaker 3: a point of no return on this earth, on this planet,
Speaker 3: and his children are literally trying to bring in his
Speaker 3: coming without giving a crap about the earth. Right, How
Speaker 3: is it okay for an all loving god to do
Speaker 3: something like that? You don't even care that the zones
Speaker 3: right the You know, my boyfriend, he does a lot
Speaker 3: of gardening, and you know, I help. I'm smartt but
Speaker 3: the zones have shifted, right, crops are going to fail
Speaker 3: that this is going to be so detrimental to our
Speaker 3: future children, you know, or anybody who's living in the
Speaker 3: next twenty years. So I'm one hundred percent there with
Speaker 3: you when you say that he doesn't care. And it's
Speaker 3: not just humans, it's the whole big picture. We were
Speaker 3: talking with somebody, I don't know if you were listening.
Speaker 3: You were talking to somebody the other day about a
Speaker 3: theory about God. He created us and he just left,
Speaker 3: He just abandoned us, like he put the story together right,
Speaker 3: like a screenplay, and we're just kind of in PCs
Speaker 3: who are just acting things out. You don't have a
Speaker 3: choice that you may starve tomorrow because you were born
Speaker 3: in XYZ area. You don't have a choice that you
Speaker 3: may not live tomorrow because you know you were you know,
Speaker 3: unalive in a certain area, right Like, you don't have
Speaker 3: those choices because God has already preordained and predestined and
Speaker 3: just left. He's gone, So he's not going to save us.
Speaker 3: So I've definitely heard a theory like that before tom
Speaker 3: and it might be real, might be true, but I.
Speaker 4: Don't know, I don't think it is. I think you're
Speaker 4: just here. And I was thinking to myself, and I
Speaker 4: don't mean to heal turned too much with this, but
Speaker 4: I when I was younger, like I'm in my thirties,
Speaker 4: like I used to be like this big debate bro
Speaker 4: with religion. And as I've gotten older, I've been less
Speaker 4: argumentative with people about that because I feel like we're
Speaker 4: fighting with each other when the people who are causing
Speaker 4: the global warming, the people that are causing the hunger,
Speaker 4: are just profiting by us fighting with each other over
Speaker 4: frivolous things like an imaginary creature in the sky, and
Speaker 4: the problems persist. And I just wish that we could
Speaker 4: be able to put aside like these beliefs that are
Speaker 4: don't matter in the grand scheme of things and actually
Speaker 4: fight against the people who are causing real harm in
Speaker 4: our everyday world. Because a lot of these calls it's
Speaker 4: not going to be productive. But if we could all
Speaker 4: band together and actually fight against the people who are
Speaker 4: causing global and causing human suffering, causing problems with these
Speaker 4: data centers that they are building, even here in Texas.
Speaker 7: Like.
Speaker 4: We could be able to make real progress. And it's
Speaker 4: just frustrating, as I age, just we don't bring the
Speaker 4: fight to the big people.
Speaker 2: I agree, which is why I don't typically do debates
Speaker 2: on my show. I focus on discussing so that we
Speaker 2: can get.
Speaker 6: To the I'm sorry, but I didn't mean I'm sorry to.
Speaker 4: Interrupt you again. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: Can you hear me.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. The website is kind of finicky. Oh but yeah,
Speaker 4: I apologize. The website was kind of cynicchy, But I
Speaker 4: just I didn't mean to say that they I understand discussion,
Speaker 4: but just.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, I didn't take offense to it. I'm
Speaker 2: saying I agree that I think that the the base
Speaker 2: can be fun, but I don't think that it provides
Speaker 2: room to get to the nitty gritty of the problem. First,
Speaker 2: I identifying what's causing it, kind of trying to help
Speaker 2: take the fog off of people's minds right when it
Speaker 2: comes to what we're uh experienced seeing in society, and
Speaker 2: kind of helping them see the two connections. Like I
Speaker 2: don't necessarily focus on saying you you don't need to
Speaker 2: believe it in God, I'm like, hey, look do you
Speaker 2: see how these two things are connected. To try to
Speaker 2: help them see how they are contributing to their own
Speaker 2: oppression or.
Speaker 1: Their own hunger.
Speaker 2: Illnesses, you know, global warming, the things that they're advocating for,
Speaker 2: and how those that are in power are using this belief,
Speaker 2: these sacred texts in order to drive these things, even
Speaker 2: driving cultural wars, to keep us fighting with each other,
Speaker 2: even about the existence of a god, as they continue
Speaker 2: to you know, push these harmful behaviors even further.
Speaker 1: Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: So, like, I try to focus more on discussing the issue,
Speaker 2: in discussing how the belief affects society rather than ha,
Speaker 2: how you have a belief in God?
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, again, I wasn't to did not mean to
Speaker 4: be pointing fingers. That was not mine.
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't think you were pointing fingers.
Speaker 4: But yeah, do you think that we will actually have
Speaker 4: change in our lifetime or do you think we'll be
Speaker 4: able to move the needle?
Speaker 1: Not in my lifetime? How do I'm forty I'll be
Speaker 1: forty six this year.
Speaker 2: I think we will see thank you.
Speaker 1: It's actually in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 4: Really, Yeah, that's exciting. I hope you have fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. So I think we're starting to see
Speaker 2: the needle move a little bit, not the way that
Speaker 2: you know a lot of us will hope where we
Speaker 2: see this massive exodus outside of belief altogether, not just Christianity, but.
Speaker 1: Within my community.
Speaker 2: It is exciting to see the door open up to
Speaker 2: where we can take a breath and say, hey, I'm atheist,
Speaker 2: where we couldn't before. And so that is a needle
Speaker 2: being moved. I will say, but I think we're looking
Speaker 2: maybe one hundred to one hundred and fifty more year.
Speaker 3: That is mm hm, yeah, I don't think that, and
Speaker 3: I hate to be pessimistic, but I think there's going
Speaker 3: to be a rubber band effect where they are going
Speaker 3: to try to come down very hard on speech, on
Speaker 3: people who look like me, people like you, Tom, people
Speaker 3: like Thinker Kelly, like that are outspoken. If you are
Speaker 3: I don't know if you are, som but that are
Speaker 3: outspoken about the fact. And that's okay, that's okay, that
Speaker 3: is Look, we all start somewhere, right. But I think
Speaker 3: that the more that we have these platforms, the more
Speaker 3: that they're gonna come and combat and push back on
Speaker 3: the fact that we are again, to Thinker's point, not
Speaker 3: just saying nan any booboo your God sucks, but looking
Speaker 3: at the history of the God, looking at the history
Speaker 3: and the creation of the character Jesus, right, looking at
Speaker 3: how it influences us every day, and exposing people to
Speaker 3: that fact that you're praying to a god, but he
Speaker 3: isn't doing anything for you, You're doing it yourself. And
Speaker 3: not to sound woogoo, but I think the power that
Speaker 3: be don't want people to have self confidence. They need sheep,
Speaker 3: they don't need leaders, right, yeah. They don't want people
Speaker 3: to find confidence and power with sorry, with empower within themselves.
Speaker 3: So this when you're deconstructing I think Christianity and any
Speaker 3: of the Abrahamic religions, you really are calling power back
Speaker 3: to yourself. You're saying God didn't work hard and buy
Speaker 3: this car I did, right, But the Christian God is
Speaker 3: very much and it appeals to authority. When you stop
Speaker 3: doing that, now, the government has an issue, or not
Speaker 3: the government, sorry, but the powers that be have an issue.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So that's why I don't think that we're going to
Speaker 3: see a real big change right until and I agree
Speaker 3: with thinkers time at least one hundred to one hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty years where there's not I think what two
Speaker 3: percent of atheists in the country or whatever that number is.
Speaker 3: I'm probably wrong in that, and I apologize, but that
Speaker 3: percentage will increase. But you know, as long as people
Speaker 3: are speaking to this God, as long as people are
Speaker 3: going and paying pastors to tell them that they're wretched
Speaker 3: slaves and they deserve to have their money taken from them,
Speaker 3: it's never going to die out. It's always going to
Speaker 3: be a problem. But I think we have hope. I
Speaker 3: have hope.
Speaker 4: I just wish I had better health care so I
Speaker 4: could see that one hundred and fifty years from now.
Speaker 4: But I just hope for the next generation, like I
Speaker 4: see them.
Speaker 2: You know, the younger generation now being more willing to question,
Speaker 2: even though some of them are still believers. They're willing
Speaker 2: to push back on things that don't make sense to them,
Speaker 2: and they're willing to reject it outright, even though they
Speaker 2: are still kind of like hanging on to tradition. And
Speaker 2: some of them, the younger men, are being indoctrinated into
Speaker 2: a new.
Speaker 1: Form of.
Speaker 2: Belief. Yes, and they and they're still hanging on to
Speaker 2: this God because the God UH defines in UH this masculinity,
Speaker 2: and it UH gives it authority and so even though
Speaker 2: they don't necessarily, you know, hold to the fairy tales,
Speaker 2: like the mythologies, they still have gone to the idea
Speaker 2: of the God, the Christian God, giving them this authority
Speaker 2: of being the one with dominion on earth. And they're
Speaker 2: going after younger males.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very vulnerable.
Speaker 2: And so I will say that I've seen a lot
Speaker 2: of young men even push back. It's about probably fifty
Speaker 2: to fifty right now pushing back even on that. And
Speaker 2: so I have hope in the younger crew. Most of
Speaker 2: my children are atheists. I have one that is a
Speaker 2: Christian and one that I identifies as spiritual.
Speaker 1: But I did not raise them in the church.
Speaker 2: The same way that I was, even though when they
Speaker 2: were younger we did. And then even though we didn't
Speaker 2: go to church, they saw me praying right, but I
Speaker 2: still didn't push what I believed on them. And then
Speaker 2: when they saw me deconstructing, I still I allowed them
Speaker 2: to ask their questions. I allowed them to go uh
Speaker 2: through their process of critical thinking and and then where
Speaker 2: they felt made the most sense for them. And I
Speaker 2: see a lot of the youth doing that, especially like
Speaker 2: the ones that come up and talk on Tuesday nights.
Speaker 2: I have eighteen and up and allow the youth to
Speaker 2: be a part of the conversation because I don't talk
Speaker 2: to people's kids about faith. But when they're eighteen and up,
Speaker 2: come up like they're so bright and well not for
Speaker 2: some reason, the males are not. They come up that
Speaker 2: they're so filled with not the not all of them.
Speaker 2: Most of the young eighteen year olds are already filled
Speaker 2: with like the masculinity right, and they want to fight
Speaker 2: about what it means to be a man instead of
Speaker 2: talking about the topics. But the young the young girls
Speaker 2: that come up with the young men, I mean the
Speaker 2: young women.
Speaker 1: They they're already.
Speaker 2: Thinking about the future and how this is going to
Speaker 2: affect us from years to come. So like I'm I'm
Speaker 2: really really excited about about this age group, and I
Speaker 2: think they are going to end up being the ones
Speaker 2: that's going to usher in the largest change. But we
Speaker 2: have quite a ways to go with them. I think
Speaker 2: it's going to be how they raise their kids. It's
Speaker 2: really going to do it well.
Speaker 4: I think what you're doing with your kids, even the
Speaker 4: one who is starting to go into the spiritual route,
Speaker 4: is a good thing. I've always believed that as people,
Speaker 4: we just have to instill the best qualities that we
Speaker 4: have and tell them to the next generation and let
Speaker 4: them decide, have the freedom to decide what they want
Speaker 4: to do with that information, and then kind of like
Speaker 4: foreign prison. Barack Obama actually said a little while ago,
Speaker 4: to get the help out of their way and let
Speaker 4: them pay with their own path.
Speaker 3: And I.
Speaker 4: Wish more people thought like that, because I do have
Speaker 4: faith that as time goes on, things will get better.
Speaker 4: It's fucking slow, and I'm sorry for cursy.
Speaker 1: No, you don't have the cursy. It's fucking slow, it is.
Speaker 2: And I was thinking this morning, like I wish like
Speaker 2: all of these older people who are about to, like
Speaker 2: you know, get on the bus out of here, are
Speaker 2: trying to turn the clock back to make people who
Speaker 2: are still here experience what they experienced on vacation, Like
Speaker 2: why why does why does my vacation have to be
Speaker 2: like yours? And you getting ready to leave and go
Speaker 2: back home. You see what I'm saying. And it's because
Speaker 2: what's happening right now. The world that we need to
Speaker 2: get back to is a world that these older people
Speaker 2: lived a long time ago, and they're almost done. And
Speaker 2: I hate to say it that way, But that trip
Speaker 2: is almost over, and what we should be doing is
Speaker 2: making sure that we leave the airbnb and a better condition. Yeah,
Speaker 2: then we left it right so that the people coming
Speaker 2: in next can have a better experience, can enjoy and
Speaker 2: have a bun experience, and be saying, but that's not
Speaker 2: what's happening. What's happening is the people who stayed in
Speaker 2: the airbnb go, oh, I.
Speaker 1: Like it this way, so I'm gonna change everything.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna fuck all this up, fuck innovation, right, everybody
Speaker 2: ain't got to eat. I'm taking the food for myself. Like,
Speaker 2: that's what's happening right now, and we've got to stop
Speaker 2: it or else the babies that they keep saying that
Speaker 2: we need to have because abortion is wrong, where they're
Speaker 2: gonna they're not gonna have anywhere to live, They're gonna
Speaker 2: have any food to eat, they're gonna have clean air
Speaker 2: to breathe. Because all these old people who had a
Speaker 2: I don't know, awesome time when they were younger want
Speaker 2: to force everybody else to.
Speaker 3: Live like them.
Speaker 4: It's not even that they had an awesome time, it's
Speaker 4: they are having an awesome time in their old years,
Speaker 4: and the only way for them to stay like that,
Speaker 4: and for their buddies who are younger than them, and
Speaker 4: when I say younger in their sixties, can be able
Speaker 4: to have that same fun time is just keeping everything
Speaker 4: down for the rest of us. And they just have
Speaker 4: to keep the world being, people being oppressed, people having
Speaker 4: to struggle so they can be able to profit and
Speaker 4: be able to have that one percent of one percent lifestyle,
Speaker 4: and a lot of us are just trying to get by.
Speaker 4: And I don't know how many people are listening right now,
Speaker 4: or and or if there's people behind me in the queue,
Speaker 4: but if there is nobody and you are listening to
Speaker 4: this right now, your voice matters. Please call in on
Speaker 4: the show.
Speaker 6: Your voice matter is just as much.
Speaker 4: Of mine, if not more. If you're younger than the
Speaker 4: please call in. We'd love to hear from you. And
Speaker 4: I'm happy to get the fuck out of the way.
Speaker 4: I stand by that, I believe by that, but.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 6: Thank you for that.
Speaker 3: You brought us some really good points that I think
Speaker 3: is kind of something that's rolling around in all of
Speaker 3: our minds right now, the future and what it's going
Speaker 3: to look like in what legacy are we going to
Speaker 3: leave behind.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I won't take up your time if.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's kind of weird because we don't have
Speaker 2: any callers today waiting.
Speaker 4: Oh god, fucking damn it. Mother.
Speaker 2: I know, like this is weird. Maybe everybody's out celebrating
Speaker 2: their day. Everybody got dads.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden.
Speaker 3: I to say, maybe they're not so much dead feats
Speaker 3: so well.
Speaker 4: I'm it's maybe not the best traffic, or maybe after
Speaker 4: dad's go to bed people might call in. I don't
Speaker 4: know if you're doing this all day, I don't know.
Speaker 4: Uh uh if you guys you said you had a kid,
Speaker 4: I don't know if you're celebrating Father's Day or if
Speaker 4: you did that already.
Speaker 1: I'm my grandmother.
Speaker 3: Oh mine is with his father.
Speaker 6: How are you having grandchildren?
Speaker 4: How can you afford?
Speaker 6: How do your children afford to have children?
Speaker 2: My oldest said is twenty three. I have he has
Speaker 2: two kids.
Speaker 4: Older son is twenty three. Oh my goodness, that is wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah. My youngest is age to be eighteen, and next
Speaker 2: week I was will be my youngest will be eighteen
Speaker 2: this week.
Speaker 4: Big time for birthdays.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Somebody commented on one of the videos and was
Speaker 2: like think her, saying that she's she's getting ready to
Speaker 2: be forty six, means she's almost fifty, says something about her.
Speaker 1: I don't know what yet, and I'm like, he said.
Speaker 2: You're aging. Why am I closer to fifty or not?
Speaker 6: Like people I know?
Speaker 4: That means, let me explain for the young people watching. Look,
Speaker 4: we're not bad people as we get older. The problem
Speaker 4: is things stop working.
Speaker 6: Bones are creaking things like we want to be fun
Speaker 6: and young, like.
Speaker 4: We most of us here, and like the people in
Speaker 4: the chat were people, not old. Old people are bad people.
Speaker 4: It's just some people that are good just don't move
Speaker 4: the same as they used.
Speaker 6: To, and we want to.
Speaker 4: I used to go to conventions and walk the floors
Speaker 4: for an entire weekend, or go to vestivals, and uh,
Speaker 4: I can't do that without medication anymore. But I do.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna hold you when I get older. I
Speaker 3: just want to have like my little nice house with
Speaker 3: a porch and a rock chair and a little baby
Speaker 3: right there on my shoulder to you know, just get
Speaker 3: off of my line, like that's that's the dream. I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna hold you. That ain't gonna help me.
Speaker 2: I would never tell the kid to get off no, not.
Speaker 3: My babies, not my babies, but maybe the mailman come
Speaker 3: get go away.
Speaker 2: I told you my day's our neigh would be trivia.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't understand the little old ladies and be like
Speaker 2: we're telling a toddler don't step on my grass, like
Speaker 2: it's a toddler a child.
Speaker 4: I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't get it.
Speaker 4: Well, I'll tell you this. Don't live in like a
Speaker 4: homeowner's association or oh never kind of places. Yeah, those
Speaker 4: are the worst. Like if you hate your neighbors, Like,
Speaker 4: you don't hate your neighbors until you live in a
Speaker 4: homeowners association. I've heard.
Speaker 3: I used to live in one. I really do.
Speaker 2: I love my neighbors. I never had any problems with them.
Speaker 4: My parents got sued by their neighbors. Crazy man thought
Speaker 4: that his house was flooding because of my mother's garden.
Speaker 4: He was alone. People that live in a homeowners and
Speaker 4: station and are basically like vocational spots like Florida. Like
Speaker 4: people don't go to Florida to retire and be.
Speaker 6: Old and just do that.
Speaker 4: They do that to go there, retire the old plane
Speaker 4: and just never retired to Florida. You're just gonna feel
Speaker 4: older than you actually are.
Speaker 6: But being fifty it's not a bad thing.
Speaker 4: It just things are gonna not just be working as
Speaker 4: much as they used to. So I'm only.
Speaker 6: Thirty and I fear fifty, but not for just being old.
Speaker 4: It just feeling old. That's the worst part.
Speaker 3: You said you're always thirty.
Speaker 4: Thirty two, although I was twenty three years I mean, well.
Speaker 3: You feel that first knee crack? Friend, let me know,
Speaker 3: because both of my knees are cracking now, and I'm like, oh.
Speaker 6: Do you think if I was like healthy thirty two,
Speaker 6: I'd be calling in on the.
Speaker 4: Station though, like my body is broken. So I'm just oh,
Speaker 4: mysmit by car like three times. Oh wow, yeah yeah,
Speaker 4: uh I it has not been an easy life for me,
Speaker 4: but uh not with the like unsafe drivers that live
Speaker 4: in uh Texas and the bad healthcare. But I do
Speaker 4: what I can. But yeah, just people get old. It's
Speaker 4: the thing about getting old. It's not about uh in
Speaker 4: the judgment that young people have about people getting old.
Speaker 4: It's not about uh. It's about how you age with
Speaker 4: grace and not be old and bitter or old and
Speaker 4: unwilling to let young people go on and like do
Speaker 4: their own part. Their own path. You have to get
Speaker 4: the fuck out of the way as you get old,
Speaker 4: and it's I hear it's as people get older, it's
Speaker 4: very alluring to tell people how to do things, and
Speaker 4: I I even try to give my advice. But like,
Speaker 4: the best thing you can is tell them what you've found,
Speaker 4: but you can't force it on them, and you have
Speaker 4: to let them.
Speaker 6: Find out their path and life.
Speaker 4: Hope that they don't just teach them the mistakes that
Speaker 4: you made, but don't tell them how to go about
Speaker 4: their lives. That's the key thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if they will listen, that's the main thing.
Speaker 6: Yeah, then keep it keeping their ears. Then they'll make
Speaker 6: the same mistakes.
Speaker 4: But then they might look back and then they can
Speaker 4: try and again the needle will move slowly like one
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty years, like you said, But just we
Speaker 4: can try. But we have to leave the air B
Speaker 4: and B in a better place, or if we can't
Speaker 4: leave it in a better place than just the way
Speaker 4: we left it, because we came into this world and
Speaker 4: while it's not a perfect world, we were able to
Speaker 4: come into it and we just need to hope that
Speaker 4: the next people can do a better job cleaning the
Speaker 4: Airbnb than us, and the least we can all do
Speaker 4: is not ship on the floor before we leave.
Speaker 2: Yep, that's true. I like that analogy, but it made
Speaker 2: me think of some people who I'm not.
Speaker 4: Going to say any names, but hold on, hold on
Speaker 4: one second.
Speaker 3: What are you telling me?
Speaker 4: You know somebody that did you go to an Airbnb
Speaker 4: and you found like some much ship on the floor?
Speaker 4: What the heck?
Speaker 1: No they on my stage.
Speaker 4: Are you saying that your co host shipped on the
Speaker 4: floor in an Airbnb?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 3: No, no, no, we have left in the same place together.
Speaker 2: Absolutely not.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 2: But on TikTok, a believer came on my stage, turned
Speaker 2: their camera on and shipped it in the camera in
Speaker 2: the name of Jesus.
Speaker 4: Oh lovely, lovely.
Speaker 6: I didn't know.
Speaker 4: So I'm on YouTube, so thankfully I don't get to see.
Speaker 4: I was going to say that ship but like that
Speaker 4: would have been really after pro.
Speaker 6: Yeah god, I.
Speaker 4: Mean, thank god I'm not on TikTok. That's that's yeah.
Speaker 4: So did they ship on the lens or like, because
Speaker 4: they're gonna have to.
Speaker 2: Clean that, they bent over in the camera and dropped one, and.
Speaker 4: You know what, I'll give them this impressive aim good joke,
Speaker 4: like like it would be for them if they missed,
Speaker 4: and then it hit the floor.
Speaker 2: We were mortified and I get took as a second
Speaker 2: to get through that because it was.
Speaker 4: I would have ended the show personally, I think, like,
Speaker 4: you know what's like, I think we're to call it
Speaker 4: there because.
Speaker 6: But uh, I really shot on their phone.
Speaker 4: I try to keep my phone safe, like I kind
Speaker 4: of divide new phones all the time, like people are
Speaker 4: fucking shitting on their phones, and I need to know
Speaker 4: what that person's like a career background, is that he
Speaker 4: can just shit on the phone and.
Speaker 3: Just it's gross.
Speaker 2: But the things that people would do in the name
Speaker 2: of their belief is in fucking insane.
Speaker 4: But yeah, spoken and is moving through me, and it
Speaker 4: is moving through my bowels, and it needs to commune
Speaker 4: Q through my camera lens. So that was actually the
Speaker 4: lord's poop.
Speaker 2: Trying to yeah exactly.
Speaker 4: It did not through though, because the connection.
Speaker 1: It looks like we do have two calls. We have
Speaker 1: one call in Q and then one on TikTok.
Speaker 4: But I enjoyed talking with your family.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Tom. I hope you have a
Speaker 1: great rest of the day as well.
Speaker 4: He was well bye. Bye bye bye.
Speaker 1: That was a good conversation.
Speaker 3: It absolutely was. Yeah, TikTok be wilidh.
Speaker 2: Yeah that was crazy. Uh Sama Zama wat.
Speaker 8: Zama sim zan Zama is fine, Zama, thank you?
Speaker 2: How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm good thinking?
Speaker 2: How aught you guys?
Speaker 3: I'm doing good, doing good?
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on the topic today?
Speaker 2: How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm okay?
Speaker 7: How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm very well.
Speaker 8: Okay, so thinking and Zina, I'm here just as a
Speaker 8: very engaged person in all of the platforms you guys
Speaker 8: are on. I'm South African and I have learned a
Speaker 8: lot from everything that you guys have engaged in all
Speaker 8: the time.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 8: I turned forty on the seventeenth of June, and my
Speaker 8: I thank you, thank you, thank you, Sina. And my
Speaker 8: biggest fear was going back home and engaging with a
Speaker 8: family that is very Christian, right, and they.
Speaker 1: Are really just.
Speaker 8: Pushing it down my throat, this is who you are,
Speaker 8: and this is who you've been all the time. And
Speaker 8: I don't think that's who I've been all this time.
Speaker 8: And my hurt is I don't want to disappoint my mother,
Speaker 8: especially because she's in a fragile state and all of
Speaker 8: that and I don't know how to Maybe I don't
Speaker 8: know how to engage her, in letting her, in disappointing her. Basically,
Speaker 8: you know, I don't know how to disappoint my mother
Speaker 8: in her late stage of life and in her celebrating
Speaker 8: my life in forty years of life. How can I
Speaker 8: just merge the two. I don't see how that can
Speaker 8: be accomplished. And that's my that's my hurt.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Maybe so, like maybe this is also not even about
Speaker 3: the topic.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, you're good, you're good. We take all topics,
Speaker 2: but prioritizing theists. But I wanted to give seen an opportunity.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Zamon. Wonderful, Like I'm glad your birthday's coming up,
Speaker 3: so congratulations or it just passed, you said June twenty fourteenth, right, yeah, seventeen.
Speaker 3: Congratulations on a big four L it's a big accomplishment. Yeah,
Speaker 3: when it comes to moms and parents who have had
Speaker 3: this religion for so long, I'm super hands off. I
Speaker 3: And this is why I say that, because you have
Speaker 3: explained that your mom is a bit fragile. And I
Speaker 3: was actually telling some friends the other day that, like,
Speaker 3: if I had this conversation about deconstructing with my mom,
Speaker 3: she would really have a heart attack, and I don't
Speaker 3: want to cause her pain. So because of that, it
Speaker 3: is hurtful, right, But I'm putting my deconstruction and I'm
Speaker 3: in a separate category then with my mom. Right, I'm
Speaker 3: not merging the two. I will not fake the funk
Speaker 3: for my mom. Right, I'm not gonna pray over my food.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to do anything like that. But for
Speaker 3: the sake of peace, I just don't mention it. That's
Speaker 3: a boundary that I've created because I love my mom,
Speaker 3: but I don't want to be disrespected or gas lit,
Speaker 3: and I don't want to be the cause of causing
Speaker 3: her any mental or physical anguish. So that's number one.
Speaker 3: I understand the desire to be open with your mommy, Like, Mommy,
Speaker 3: I found something new, like a child. I want to
Speaker 3: share this with you. I feel like we can have
Speaker 3: a good talk about this. But at the end of
Speaker 3: the day, it could open something that you just can't close.
Speaker 3: And if she is, you know, older, she's not going
Speaker 3: to be here for long. I think the time that
Speaker 3: you have should be filled with love and joy and
Speaker 3: whatever family traditions that you guys share as far as
Speaker 3: I want to stay, as far as like deconstructing, right,
Speaker 3: Your deconstruction is your journey alone. You don't have to
Speaker 3: tell anybody about that, and it does not make you
Speaker 3: lesser or anything. I think that when I first started deconstructing,
Speaker 3: I actually wanted to shout it to the rooftop. I
Speaker 3: don't believe in this, like I don't believe in this God.
Speaker 3: I don't want nothing to do with it, you know.
Speaker 4: But I.
Speaker 3: Realized that this is a personal journey. This is something
Speaker 3: that I have to take my time with. I don't
Speaker 3: got to talk to everybody, and that includes my mama.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, it is.
Speaker 3: It is conflicting right where you do want to say, Mom,
Speaker 3: I found out that God swallowed up people in Exodus,
Speaker 3: right and in numbers like I found out that Jesus Christ,
Speaker 3: you know, was healing slaves and stuff like that, but
Speaker 3: he won't put shoes on your feet like. I want
Speaker 3: to talk about these contradictions, Mom, I want to have dialogue, but.
Speaker 9: To what end?
Speaker 8: It's very difficult, I must say. The thing I struggle
Speaker 8: with the most is just trying to humanize. I don't
Speaker 8: know humanize my mom and the experience that she's had
Speaker 8: as a person who's been religious all her life and
Speaker 8: a person who then told her kids to be that
Speaker 8: as well. How do I they and maybe not for
Speaker 8: this platform, but for me myself. How do I then
Speaker 8: kind of engage and disengage with whatever it is that
Speaker 8: she's kind of both?
Speaker 3: Do you create boundaries? It is hard. It is hard
Speaker 3: to create boundaries with a parent at any age, but
Speaker 3: you do, and only you know how far you can
Speaker 3: push that. Sometimes it may have to be, Mom, we
Speaker 3: can't have this conversation, and you may want to put
Speaker 3: it to where you're saying, I care for your health.
Speaker 3: I care for your mental health, your physical health. I
Speaker 3: know that when I bring this up with you, you
Speaker 3: get a bit rolled up, and I wouldn't use the
Speaker 3: word rowed up, but like you know, it may strike
Speaker 3: you in a way where we start to have contention
Speaker 3: with each other. And I don't want that contention with you,
Speaker 3: right because I love you. And I was talking about
Speaker 3: somebody the other night about forgiving my mom for doing
Speaker 3: the best that she could with what she had at
Speaker 3: whatever age. I forgave her, but I haven't told her
Speaker 3: that I've forgiven her, because I don't want her to
Speaker 3: weaponize my forgiveness so that every time I talk to her,
Speaker 3: she's like, oh, well you don't believe in this, you
Speaker 3: don't believe in God? Well what do you believe? Like,
Speaker 3: I don't need her questioning me every two seconds, right,
Speaker 3: and then coming back to me and saying I shouldn't
Speaker 3: have talked to you that way. I'm so sorry. Can
Speaker 3: you forgive me no right? One step at a time,
Speaker 3: one day at a time, But you know, trying to
Speaker 3: have that conversation if you really want to, I say,
Speaker 3: start small. Something Mama Bash told me that her son
Speaker 3: Sebastian Cole used to do was ask her a question
Speaker 3: and just let it marinate and walk away. You're not
Speaker 3: looking for confrontation, not dialogue. Just our bats birds. Mom,
Speaker 3: It's good at them.
Speaker 6: Just like that.
Speaker 2: I know for me because I heard you ask like,
Speaker 2: how do you humanize her? And that was something that
Speaker 2: I struggle with with my mom because we fought all
Speaker 2: the time about this God. And it was me seeing
Speaker 2: her pain that she was going through when she lost
Speaker 2: my father, because I was looking at her through the
Speaker 2: lens of she is, you know, a wife that just
Speaker 2: lost her husband.
Speaker 1: She's our mom. She's also the first lady at the church.
Speaker 2: And I had like all these expectations on how she
Speaker 2: should handle that grief, what she should do going forward,
Speaker 2: like with her life.
Speaker 3: And she took us to a.
Speaker 2: Cabin and she was telling us that she was going
Speaker 2: to get married again. And it's like eight months after
Speaker 2: my dad died.
Speaker 1: And I was like, why, you can I do what?
Speaker 2: And she took me into the master sweet and she
Speaker 2: talked to me and.
Speaker 3: Like I, I saw her for the first.
Speaker 1: Time in her pain and.
Speaker 2: I was able to actually see her.
Speaker 1: And then when I had.
Speaker 2: To get my hysterectomy, I had to stay with her
Speaker 2: and she told me stories about when she was younger
Speaker 2: and the bullying, the wearing the long skirts, and now
Speaker 2: I've been able to date and like all of this stuff,
Speaker 2: and I'm seeing her right she in the in the
Speaker 2: at the cabin, she said, I went from she said,
Speaker 2: I don't know anything else.
Speaker 10: She said, I went from my mom and dad to
Speaker 10: your dad. She said, all I know is my mom
Speaker 10: and dad, your dad, and God.
Speaker 3: She said, I don't know anything else.
Speaker 2: And I'm seeing her and I'm like, holy shit, that's
Speaker 2: true that she don't know anything. That's why all she
Speaker 2: can talk to me about is God. That's her safety,
Speaker 2: that's and her way of showing me that she loves
Speaker 2: me is I need to give her who what is me?
Speaker 2: And that's all that I am and she But the
Speaker 2: thing is that she couldn't see that it what she
Speaker 2: was calling love was harming me because that's not that
Speaker 2: wasn't who I was, and she was not willing to
Speaker 2: accept it. And so I had to first see her
Speaker 2: humanness and understand and accept her for who she was
Speaker 2: first before she could accept and see me, because I
Speaker 2: had to set the boundaries right, and it was me
Speaker 2: accepting the fact that she would never be who I
Speaker 2: needed her to be and I needed to accept her.
Speaker 1: And once I was able to do that, she was
Speaker 1: able to accept that this is who I am. You know,
Speaker 1: I saw her.
Speaker 2: Yesterday and it was you know, we've come a very
Speaker 2: long way.
Speaker 1: We've come a very long way.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: She still loves her God, and she will tell you
Speaker 2: in a minute she loves her God more than she
Speaker 2: love her kids, but her actions don't speak that because
Speaker 2: the fact that you know, she knows that I'm an atheist,
Speaker 2: she knows that I hold these lines, and she she knows,
Speaker 2: you know, and she still Like when I was a
Speaker 2: believer and I was questioning, I was saying the low
Speaker 2: rebuke deemon, this, what's wrong with you, satan to. Now
Speaker 2: I'm an atheist and it's hey, baby, and that's not
Speaker 2: normal for her, you know what I'm saying. So but
Speaker 2: it took for me to see her humans. It took
Speaker 2: for me to acknowledge and accept her for who she was,
Speaker 2: acknowledge that she was a little girl and she was hurt.
Speaker 2: She was bullied because she was a Christian in school
Speaker 2: and she had to wear long skirts what other people didn't,
Speaker 2: and she got beat up for wearing loust guards. And
Speaker 2: so I had to I'm about to crack because like
Speaker 2: I had to. I had to, and I said, this
Speaker 2: is her life. And we've lived two different lives. Like
Speaker 2: I've traveled the world and she hasn't. And that's so hurtful.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry to get.
Speaker 8: The point that you bring across to me as well
Speaker 8: is so hurtful because I want to I want to
Speaker 8: carry all my mom's hurts, you know. I want to
Speaker 8: carry everything that she has not experienced in life. I
Speaker 8: want to be able to give her something beyond herself.
Speaker 8: But I cannot see a point where we agree on
Speaker 8: a religion. I can't see a point we just you know,
Speaker 8: I can't see a point where religion for her is
Speaker 8: the first priority. And I'm a sakend priority. And now
Speaker 8: we have to, like what, just be okay with that?
Speaker 8: I can't, And that's what's hurtful for me. So I
Speaker 8: understand what you're trying, like what you're expressing about even
Speaker 8: your mom and your family situation.
Speaker 3: It's hurtful.
Speaker 8: You know, it's hurtful, and as a black South African woman,
Speaker 8: it's yeah.
Speaker 2: It is what it is.
Speaker 8: We just carry it slowly but surely, and we just
Speaker 8: engage in these platforms like this we try to learn.
Speaker 8: But I don't know if we just doing this for
Speaker 8: now or yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think, like, first, I don't think that you should
Speaker 2: try to carry your mother's hearts. I think acknowledging it,
Speaker 2: acknowledge that she's human, right and that she has had
Speaker 2: some pain, and that might explain some things, But that
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you should have to carry it right,
Speaker 2: And that doesn't mean that you should be okay or
Speaker 2: that you have to be okay with her saying that
Speaker 2: this you know, deity that she's never seen is before you,
Speaker 2: and that she loves that God before she loves you.
Speaker 2: You don't have to be okay with that.
Speaker 11: Right.
Speaker 2: Acceptance is one thing, right, but saying that it's okay
Speaker 2: approval is another that you know, So I'm not saying
Speaker 2: that you have to do that. I definitely think that
Speaker 2: carrying and carrying her pain and trying to usher her
Speaker 2: into healing or you know, fixing something that you cannot fix,
Speaker 2: it's it's going to disrupt whatever you're looking for in
Speaker 2: the deconstruction process, says right, because you can't be her God,
Speaker 2: and you can't be the sacrifice. You can't be the
Speaker 2: sacrifice for her, so that she, you know, gets with
Speaker 2: this God never gave going into it, understanding why she
Speaker 2: thinks the way she thinks, which is why these conversations
Speaker 2: are important. And as I was just telling Tom, I
Speaker 2: was telling them that the for me, the discussion part
Speaker 2: and getting to the root of it is the most
Speaker 2: important part because I feel like that's what's going to
Speaker 2: move the needle. It's because people are gonna start having
Speaker 2: these realizations and saying.
Speaker 1: Oh, this is why I think the way I think.
Speaker 1: This is why my mother my father.
Speaker 2: Thinks, think the way they think. And then being able
Speaker 2: to gain the courage to set those boundaries as Zeno
Speaker 2: was talking about earlier and enforce them and you know,
Speaker 2: learning how to enforce them while at the same time,
Speaker 2: if it's good maintaining the relationship with the family, sometimes
Speaker 2: not maintaining that relationship is the best thing for both
Speaker 2: for both sides. Because we had somebody on stage the
Speaker 2: other day who said they killed their a non believer
Speaker 2: just to give a mercy. You got a family member
Speaker 2: that believes in killing you, so you go to heaven.
Speaker 2: You don't need to cut that. You know, you ain't
Speaker 2: got to long suffer with that one. But I think
Speaker 2: that's what these conversations do. Helped. It helps you kind
Speaker 2: of like lay out all of your your thoughts and
Speaker 2: your lived experience on a in front of you and
Speaker 2: kind of put them in places and go, oh, that's
Speaker 2: why that's there. Oh no, they don't need to be there,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. And so yeah, it makes sense,
Speaker 2: It makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 8: So just thank you, Thank you both for just being
Speaker 8: able to be a listening year and to try and
Speaker 8: navigate my thoughts as well, because what you've said a
Speaker 8: lot here.
Speaker 2: Makes sense.
Speaker 8: It does, It does make a lot of sense, and
Speaker 8: it's just for me to try and replicate that into
Speaker 8: my own life and try and figure out where it
Speaker 8: all fits into trying to not change my family perspective
Speaker 8: at all, but trying to express myself in a way
Speaker 8: that maybe they would understand, you know, And that's what
Speaker 8: I was hoping for. I listen to your lives a lot.
Speaker 8: I think, I like I listen to your lives a lot.
Speaker 8: So I hope I've learned enough for me to be
Speaker 8: able to navigate this on my own and be able to.
Speaker 3: Gain something of it. That's that's my hope, you know.
Speaker 3: So thank you both, and that'll be me. You got this,
Speaker 3: don't worry nothing. It's accomplished overnight. Sometimes it takes time,
Speaker 3: so don't put so much pressure on yourself.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, a lot of time, A lot of time.
Speaker 2: You got this. Thank you, and you have us, yes,
Speaker 2: So if you need to come and hollow it us
Speaker 2: on TikTok, we're gonna talk you through it. I I'm
Speaker 2: telling you there's been many times that you know, I've
Speaker 2: needed to talk to somebody and say guess what she
Speaker 2: did today.
Speaker 3: I was doing that last night of Klow's Live. I
Speaker 3: was like, y'all let me tell you.
Speaker 4: M mm hm hmmm.
Speaker 3: Parents, man, we love them. Sometimes they push us me.
Speaker 3: All right, love buck, have a great day.
Speaker 1: Have a good way, thank you.
Speaker 9: Okay, all right, all right, we have our final call.
Speaker 9: Uh if I can find the call in, I don't
Speaker 9: lost it on the screen.
Speaker 3: Okay, there you go. All right.
Speaker 2: Our final call is Astrara from South Africa. Astra wants
Speaker 2: to know what's John the Baptist a disciple of Jesus
Speaker 2: or the other way around.
Speaker 1: Maybe, Hey, Astra, are you.
Speaker 6: Hi?
Speaker 7: I'm getting yourself.
Speaker 2: I'm doing good, so you want to know if sorry
Speaker 2: go ahead, I'm sorry. Oh no, I was saying.
Speaker 7: I also listening to the last call, and I was like, oh, Samma,
Speaker 7: I feel me and you someone on the same boat.
Speaker 7: I understand how you feel. I was just like, see here,
Speaker 7: I even forgot that I was in the queue this
Speaker 7: entire time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we've talked several times before.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: On your actually one, why do I feel like I
Speaker 2: know you?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was it was one time.
Speaker 6: I think like two weeks ago, okay.
Speaker 7: With a godless engineer, and then I disappeared.
Speaker 3: It was a memorable Poe call.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay you I was nervous.
Speaker 1: Oh you did good, You did good. You say you
Speaker 1: want to know if John.
Speaker 2: The Baptist was a disciple of Jesus or the other
Speaker 2: way around. That's an interesting one. I have a lot
Speaker 2: of thoughts about Jesus and John the Baptist, But again,
Speaker 2: I want to give Zena the opportunity.
Speaker 3: So I love this question because I'm a big fan
Speaker 3: of John the Baptist. Frankly, I think that Jesus was
Speaker 3: a family of his cousin and he was like, I
Speaker 3: want to take this stance that Jesus was a disciple
Speaker 3: of John the Baptist, and the reason being, if I
Speaker 3: had to put a category, I don't think he was
Speaker 3: actually a disciple right of either one of them were
Speaker 3: disciples of each other. But John was out there giving
Speaker 3: the baptism of repentance. Jesus sought John out, not the
Speaker 3: other way around. John baptized him under right, He baptized
Speaker 3: him under forgiveness repentance, and then that is when go ahead, Oh.
Speaker 7: Yeah, sorry, I wanted to think basically, The reason why
Speaker 7: I had those questions was I was listening to his stream, uh,
Speaker 7: because I breathe and drink the atheist experience this this
Speaker 7: is just my life now. But I was listening to
Speaker 7: I think it was Justin and Forrest Balci, and they
Speaker 7: were talking to a theist who was trying to make
Speaker 7: an argument. How we forgot what the argument was about,
Speaker 7: but it was about drowning the Baptist and with Jesus.
Speaker 7: And then Justin was like basically explaining the verses.
Speaker 3: And then I was like.
Speaker 7: Sitting here and I was like, Justin, what are you
Speaker 7: trying to tell me?
Speaker 2: Actually, what are you trying to tell me? What you say?
Speaker 8: What do you impry?
Speaker 2: Because I was like.
Speaker 4: The the.
Speaker 7: Collar was trying to explain why Jesus was going to
Speaker 7: see John the Baptist and why he needed to be
Speaker 7: baptized by John.
Speaker 2: And then and then Justin was like what do you
Speaker 2: think he was doing?
Speaker 4: When do you think that?
Speaker 6: Was just hanging out like bros, Like what do you
Speaker 6: think was happening?
Speaker 3: And I was like each other, Okay, you're saying what
Speaker 3: I think you say.
Speaker 7: I was like, are you saying what I think you're saying?
Speaker 2: Are you trying to tell me this man I was about.
Speaker 7: He's like, what do you think they were doing?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 7: What did you actually think they were doing? And I
Speaker 7: even tried reading the verse where.
Speaker 6: Justin was.
Speaker 7: Was couding about he who comes after me has a
Speaker 7: higher rank than I and has a priority for.
Speaker 6: He insisted before me.
Speaker 7: And he's explained that verse and and explain the other one.
Speaker 7: But I think I was kind of confused because there
Speaker 7: was a part where he said that the author of
Speaker 7: the Bible was talking to John or something like that.
Speaker 7: Maybe I just didn't understand correctly, But I was like, wait,
Speaker 7: I need to talk to someone about this because I
Speaker 7: just I don't understand what's actually happening.
Speaker 2: But I'd love to hear.
Speaker 7: More abspect why you think that Jesus would be a
Speaker 7: disciple or you would see him as a disciple of
Speaker 7: John the Baptists, because I know that John the Baptists
Speaker 7: was so much of a big deal, and I didn't
Speaker 7: know he was this much of a big deal. But yeah,
Speaker 7: I'd love to just hear your thoughts about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like, and again, not that he was an actual disciple,
Speaker 3: because it's crazy. John had his own disciples, he had
Speaker 3: his own ministry. He had his own people so much
Speaker 3: so that they're the ones who came and got his
Speaker 3: head right in his body after you know, he was unlive, right,
Speaker 3: so he had his own violin where Jesus hadn't really
Speaker 3: quite established himself yet. And like I was saying, it
Speaker 3: was when John baptized Jesus. You see God in the
Speaker 3: very few times he's like talking or interacting with the humans,
Speaker 3: and a New Testament you see him actually saying something.
Speaker 3: But John was the catalyst when it comes to his
Speaker 3: birth and his origin.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: Elizabeth and Zachary are old in age, but they come
Speaker 3: from a very unique lineage, right, so you know she's
Speaker 3: the daughter of Aaron. He's a special of a special priesthood.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 3: He has such a more of a fantastical I think
Speaker 3: origin than Jesus does. And then last but not least,
Speaker 3: I feel like John may have been a real person,
Speaker 3: like at least maybe historically not actually doing those like miracles,
Speaker 3: right or anything like that. But maybe he wasn't apocalyptic
Speaker 3: preacher just like Jesus was. And Jesus kind of stole
Speaker 3: John's message. So you know, if I'm using the Bible
Speaker 3: and I'm doing an internal critique. I think that, yeah,
Speaker 3: John was a threat to Hey Suesday Christo, and I
Speaker 3: think he appealed to Jesus, appealed to John's authority.
Speaker 4: Is what I think.
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, Well, because like I was still going I'm
Speaker 7: such a lazy person, but I was supposed to finish
Speaker 7: up like a video on Dato over Dogma. That's like
Speaker 7: where I get most of my knowledge from, by Dan,
Speaker 7: but Cleannel as well, that's where I get most of
Speaker 7: my knowledge from. And I was still like sitting here
Speaker 7: and going through the versus, and I was kind of
Speaker 7: like wondering, why the.
Speaker 4: What the Jews?
Speaker 7: The Jews sent the priest and the Levi's in John
Speaker 7: chapter one, verse nineteen, Like why would they need to
Speaker 7: send priests and Levi's to I'm assuming getting the testimony
Speaker 7: of John to ask Kim if he's Elijah or ask
Speaker 7: if he's the Promised Prophet.
Speaker 2: And I'm just assuming, like.
Speaker 4: What was like John.
Speaker 1: Claiming he was the Messiah?
Speaker 7: Was he or were other people claiming that he was
Speaker 7: a Messiah? That, uh, the the you had to send
Speaker 7: priests to kind of confirm this to ensure that it's
Speaker 7: just correct. Is this man the Christ? Is this man
Speaker 7: Elijah or the Promised Prophet. I found that really fascinating.
Speaker 7: I was like, what is what was actually happening? Why
Speaker 7: would they need this information?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So like it's it sounds like John is doubting there, right,
Speaker 2: because they're supposed to have a militant Messiah, and so
Speaker 2: he sends his disciples. It's like, go, like he's hearing
Speaker 2: all of this fantastical stuff that Jesus is doing in
Speaker 2: the city, but he's not doing what the messia is
Speaker 2: supposed doing. The Messiah who's supposed to be, you know,
Speaker 2: restoring the kingdom right, and Israel and Judah are supposed
Speaker 2: to be safe in the land under this Messiah, this
Speaker 2: militant king. But Jesus is uh, you know, turning water
Speaker 2: into wine, He's raising the dead, he's healing the sick,
Speaker 2: like he's doing all this supernatural stuff, right. And John goes, hey,
Speaker 2: go and ask him like is he the missage?
Speaker 1: Like some change, like is he the most say.
Speaker 2: We doing something different? And Jesus is like, hey, tell him,
Speaker 2: tell him that I'm raising the dead, I'm healing the sick.
Speaker 2: Like he tells him like in other words, this is
Speaker 2: what the Messiah does, and it's kind of like you
Speaker 2: get this. This is where you start to see that
Speaker 2: the kingdom what the Messiah was supposed to do. It's
Speaker 2: not physical he's supposed to He's not supposed to come
Speaker 2: and fight a physical army. He's not supposed to sit
Speaker 2: on the physical uh thron.
Speaker 1: This is what the must Sayah is right.
Speaker 2: And then I agree with Zena. I definitely don't think
Speaker 2: Jesus was necessarily a disciple of John the Baptist.
Speaker 1: I think I think the real like I think the
Speaker 1: real Jesus was a crook.
Speaker 2: I think he was some thug.
Speaker 1: That had a ganga dudes.
Speaker 2: And he taught he was teaching them some bad stuff,
Speaker 2: like he taught them to pillot authority. Right like if
Speaker 2: you if you look at John, John is teaching the Israelizes, Hey,
Speaker 2: don't be like I can do whatever I want because
Speaker 2: my daddy is Abraham, all right. He tells them don't explore,
Speaker 2: he tells the tax collectors, don't exploit people, don't take
Speaker 2: more than what you're supposed to have. Right, Jesus comes
Speaker 2: along and Jesus says he is Salvation has come to
Speaker 2: your house today because you are a chown of Abraham.
Speaker 2: He does the exact opposite of what John was teaching, right,
Speaker 2: And then he's when he's talking to when the when
Speaker 2: the tax collectors come to him, uh uh to get taxes,
Speaker 2: and uh they asked, Peter, do yo, why don't show
Speaker 2: teacher paying taxes? Like they're noticing Jesus is not paying taxes.
Speaker 2: He's bucking the system, he's not paying taxes. And then
Speaker 2: Peter gets home and Jesus like it, says, oh, Jesus
Speaker 2: already knew that that conversation happened, right, and so uh,
Speaker 2: he says, Peter, let me ask you a question. Do
Speaker 2: the officials charge their sons taxes or just the others?
Speaker 1: Like, do the sons pay or just others?
Speaker 2: And Peter go all for show others for show they
Speaker 2: ain't taxing their son. And then Jesus is like, okay, listen,
Speaker 2: the sons are free, and so just so that we
Speaker 2: don't defend them, we don't offend them, We're gonna.
Speaker 1: Go get this coin and go fish it out of
Speaker 1: the sea and.
Speaker 2: Go pay Like this was Jesus saying, notice that the
Speaker 2: kings of the earth don't charge their sons, how much
Speaker 2: more you think God.
Speaker 1: Gonna charge his sons.
Speaker 2: The sons are free. Salvation has come to you because
Speaker 2: you are in the Israelite you are a son of Abraham.
Speaker 2: Fuck all that what John was talking about. He did
Speaker 2: something completely different than what John todd. But there is
Speaker 2: any aparkryphal tax of John the baptizer. John the baptizer
Speaker 2: does not want to baptize Jesus. He literally says to him, like, dude,
Speaker 2: you are leadingly Israelized astray. He literally says that, and
Speaker 2: then he's like, uh. He calls him the deceiver, and
Speaker 2: he gives him this test right and uh. He said,
Speaker 2: if you can answer these three if you can answer
Speaker 2: these three questions, I'll baptize you, because because what Jesus
Speaker 2: keeps saying is and baptize me by the name that
Speaker 2: you invoke, make me your disciple, and I'll put you
Speaker 2: in my gospel. He said, I'll write you in my gospel.
Speaker 2: And uh, John doesn't want.
Speaker 3: To do it.
Speaker 2: He gives him a test and three ans, three questions,
Speaker 2: and what Jesus does he plays on words, how can
Speaker 2: a virgin become a virgin again? Oh, a virgin can
Speaker 2: become a virgin again if he if she die, if
Speaker 2: she go to heaven, and don't have sex in heaven
Speaker 2: like like he like plays on words. How can a
Speaker 2: blind man become uh, I mean, how can a stamora
Speaker 2: become a good speaker or something like? He? Oh, a
Speaker 2: stamura can come as a good speaker when he when
Speaker 2: he writes poetry like he.
Speaker 1: Plays on words.
Speaker 2: And then this dove, this voice comes out and goes
Speaker 2: John baptized the deceiver. This voice tells John the baptizer
Speaker 2: to baptize the deceiver. And John baptizes Jesus. And this
Speaker 2: is in the.
Speaker 1: Uh, the apocryphal text Colle John the baptized.
Speaker 2: And so we know that John John's disciples didn't necessarily
Speaker 2: they did not like the followers of Jesus. They did
Speaker 2: not think that Jesus was the Messiah. They did not
Speaker 2: think that Jesus was divine. M And so yeah, I
Speaker 2: think I don't think that he was a disciple of
Speaker 2: John the Baptist. I think he if if this person
Speaker 2: did exist, there was this man named Yes, well, I
Speaker 2: think he built a crew of thugs.
Speaker 1: And tried to join John John's crew.
Speaker 2: That's what I think.
Speaker 7: Wow, this sounds like the.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying from what I.
Speaker 1: Don't be commonly this is what.
Speaker 2: No stop it, no, stop it.
Speaker 3: I mean thinking about it.
Speaker 2: He told them how to still a donkey using authority,
Speaker 2: like using keywords. He's like, hey, yeah, he says, use
Speaker 2: these words. It's the way he says it, right, And
Speaker 2: he's like, hey, you're going to see a donkey tied
Speaker 2: in in in the city untied when you get in there.
Speaker 2: And if if anybody asks what you're doing, just say
Speaker 2: these words because he knows, right, yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 7: And when I'm listening to you talk and you're talking
Speaker 7: about how he basically plays on these words, it just
Speaker 7: seems like even even in the New Testament, you see
Speaker 7: Jesus please on these words. He's like, he's very vague
Speaker 7: about these things. Everyone he's told me about his parables,
Speaker 7: He's not really giving a straightforward answer. And it just
Speaker 7: feels like this was like at least it was even
Speaker 7: with a popupher like that seems like a very I guess,
Speaker 7: a consistent trait with the Jesus character.
Speaker 3: And it just reminds me back with Justin.
Speaker 7: When he was talking about Jesus being a feel prophet,
Speaker 7: and I think he was talking about was it a
Speaker 7: sire as I chapter seven seven, he said.
Speaker 2: Seven age and nine.
Speaker 7: I forgot what it was about, because that's sure have
Speaker 7: memory loss, But it was something about I think it
Speaker 7: was about the king of the king of what's his name,
Speaker 7: has that has a Kiah, has a Kia something like that,
Speaker 7: And I think it was about yes, and I think
Speaker 7: it was about uh that him as a king, I
Speaker 7: think him being born and him being a.
Speaker 3: King of Israel.
Speaker 7: And then basically kind of Jesus kind of taking giving
Speaker 7: the prophet Asaiah out of context and you see that happen,
Speaker 7: and even with Matthew kind of misquoting certain, uh certain
Speaker 7: verses and saying, oh, this is from Jeremiah, whereas it's
Speaker 7: actually in Zachariah, and you're just it's just like sitting
Speaker 7: there and you're like, huh.
Speaker 3: And and when you even read with.
Speaker 4: The Book of John, I.
Speaker 7: Just it just made me wonder why they had to
Speaker 7: kind of make this like, uh disclaimer, if I could say,
Speaker 7: of just just to make sure everyone is like on power,
Speaker 7: Like John the Baptist is not the Messiah. So I'm
Speaker 7: just gonna write this, why just just so you know
Speaker 7: he's not the Messiah. So you just it's a very
Speaker 7: clear that he is not. So it seemed like there
Speaker 7: was there was that quite competition happening at that time
Speaker 7: where you know, we we we were.
Speaker 5: Of course today we think that Jesus was the only Messiah.
Speaker 7: And then when you learn more of the history, it's
Speaker 7: just like, oh, John practice, wasn't just some man.
Speaker 6: Who was like, yeah, Jesus, he is cool.
Speaker 3: I like him.
Speaker 7: You know, it has long hair for no damn reason.
Speaker 2: He looks cute. Why not.
Speaker 7: It's like there was that competition happening, and that you know,
Speaker 7: there was the I guess the clash between the followers
Speaker 7: and the different creatures. But wow, I never knew anything
Speaker 7: about that approprphe Like, wow, it just it feels like
Speaker 7: learning something I'm not supposed to know.
Speaker 2: That's how it felt when I was reading it, because
Speaker 2: we were told not to read outside the Bible. I'm like,
Speaker 2: when I saw that it called Jesus the Deceiver, I
Speaker 2: was like.
Speaker 3: I feel like you're coming across.
Speaker 2: Is that watching me read this?
Speaker 3: I was no way.
Speaker 2: I was so shocked. Like some more I learned.
Speaker 7: I think my favorite one was the test was the
Speaker 7: Testimony of Truth.
Speaker 2: I think I was watching who.
Speaker 4: Was this lady.
Speaker 7: I think it was Elaine Peggles. She I think she's
Speaker 7: a Second Temple scholar, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 3: And she was talking about the.
Speaker 2: Testimony of truth.
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, she was talking about Satan, the origins of
Speaker 7: Satan and where Satan, the idea of Satan came from.
Speaker 6: And she was talking about the testimony of truth.
Speaker 7: And how uh Jesus was considered like uh, the serpent
Speaker 7: in the garden, like Jesus Christ was seen as the
Speaker 7: serpent in the garden, and and and God was the
Speaker 7: dormy age.
Speaker 3: I was like, what what is going on?
Speaker 7: Son? What's happening y'all? These who have guts? I could
Speaker 7: never ever, even in a million years a million years,
Speaker 7: put that and that together. That that's thoseles wrong to
Speaker 7: my indoctrinated mind, that.
Speaker 4: Was so wrong.
Speaker 2: Al But what Yeah, Well, did you have anything else
Speaker 2: ash around? I think it was a great conversation. We've
Speaker 2: reached the end of the show. Did you have any
Speaker 2: anything else you wanted to add before we go?
Speaker 7: Oh? No, I don't have anything else. But thank you
Speaker 7: for taking in, Michael.
Speaker 2: You're so welcome. Thank you for calling in. I hope
Speaker 2: you have a great rest of the day.
Speaker 6: Of course, thank you, bye bye.
Speaker 2: All right, I do want to read the super chat
Speaker 2: right quick, Dinna, do you have access to the superjest?
Speaker 3: I don't think so. Hold on, where would I find
Speaker 3: that out? It would be in the doc.
Speaker 2: I don't know if oh no, no, okay, So we
Speaker 2: have AG nine ninety nine the nerves are here to support.
Speaker 2: Thanker and Zena.
Speaker 1: We love you all.
Speaker 2: Thank you AG for your support as always. Nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 2: Jay whis sick with the hell Satan, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Jay whis sick. Luke Riley with the two dollars. No
Speaker 2: craping for Jesus. Yeah, keep your pants on, go to
Speaker 2: the bathroom, used tissue, wash your hands and nine ninety
Speaker 2: nine Satan was framed. Thinker, I love when you retell
Speaker 2: Bible stories. I'm Anita think her voiceover for the Bible.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Satan's frame. I appreciate you so much. All right,
Speaker 2: y'all is time we want to thank our back up
Speaker 2: for helping out tonight.
Speaker 1: Hello, Jamie, I mean, what did I call you?
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Kelly? I am so you know what I
Speaker 2: called Jamie h Kelly the last time I was on
Speaker 2: the show, Because.
Speaker 3: You look like a Jamie to me, he does look
Speaker 3: like a Jamie, and you're gonna and you're gonna always
Speaker 3: be in my head, and don't take it the road way.
Speaker 2: You will always be Jamie Jimmy because it looked like
Speaker 2: your name should be Jamie or Jimmy.
Speaker 3: No, I'm sorry, but that's fine.
Speaker 11: And we both have androgynous names too, so that to
Speaker 11: make it even more confusing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. But from the first day that I
Speaker 2: met you, you were in my head. You were you
Speaker 2: were Jamie, and I keep having trouble getting that.
Speaker 11: Well, if you call me Jamie, I won't take it personally.
Speaker 2: I understand I have named I have name blindness. To
Speaker 2: trust me, they know I have. It's been like that
Speaker 2: my whole life. My I think I got it from
Speaker 2: my unteaching. Like she'll call people Jesus. Suld be like Jesus.
Speaker 2: I mean, like so, but thank you so much for
Speaker 2: being a beackapos. Did you have any thoughts on the show?
Speaker 11: You know, they're just a couple of things. Mostly it
Speaker 11: was from Tom's call, right, and you mentioned that when
Speaker 11: you were taking calls, and the young men seem to
Speaker 11: be different than the young women. I think that society
Speaker 11: and our culture. I mean, you look at the movies
Speaker 11: and some of the TV shows, meant young boys are
Speaker 11: kind of conditioned to be that way. I hate to
Speaker 11: say it, you know, but uh, I mean like I
Speaker 11: kind of felt that way when I was sixteen and seventeen.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 11: Fortunately for me, I learned that, but uh yeah, I
Speaker 11: mean it seems like our culture kind of like steers
Speaker 11: young men into that direction. Maybe because they need cannon fodder.
Speaker 11: I don't know, but you know, but that seems to be.
Speaker 11: And then you were talking about teaching as you get older,
Speaker 11: and obviously I'm older, And what I found is that
Speaker 11: instead of telling people, hey, this was the right way
Speaker 11: to do it, I found it if I say something
Speaker 11: that a lot more chill, like, you know, I found
Speaker 11: it if I do it this way, it seems like
Speaker 11: it's a lot easier for me to.
Speaker 4: Do, you know.
Speaker 11: And it seems like I create less friction when I'm
Speaker 11: teaching people how to do things. So I think it's
Speaker 11: just you need to be mindful of what to say
Speaker 11: to people.
Speaker 4: I think that's about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, yeah. I think relatable experience is the most
Speaker 2: powerful then commanding or giving advice.
Speaker 11: M Yeah, right, exactly exactly. Yeah, so that was about
Speaker 11: it and asking questions, Always ask questions. That was for
Speaker 11: our second caller. I can't remember her name unfortunately, but
Speaker 11: I didn't write it down like an idiot. But yeah,
Speaker 11: always keep asking questions, and I always ask peop people
Speaker 11: who have deconstructed how they started on their path. Number
Speaker 11: one answer, I started asking questions. You can never ask
Speaker 11: too many questions.
Speaker 2: Absolutely what Badge says, questions.
Speaker 1: Are the gods to the answers.
Speaker 3: There you go, there you go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Zina, how can people find out more about
Speaker 2: you and allow like share your contact information?
Speaker 3: Yes, you can find me right here on TikTok. I
Speaker 3: am right now live with Aca down here near Thinkers,
Speaker 3: so you can hit that follow. But in there, I
Speaker 3: am trying to crank up my YouTube, so bear with me, y'all.
Speaker 3: I am going to get together. That is going to
Speaker 3: be Zena May point two Xena May point two, so
Speaker 3: you can find me on those platforms and pretty soon
Speaker 3: coming to a place on the phone near you. I
Speaker 3: will be starting on Instagram, so watch out for that announcement.
Speaker 3: That announcement as well. So thank you for asking, Thank
Speaker 3: you so much for being here today.
Speaker 1: Kelly, I appreciate you, thank you too.
Speaker 2: You both were great.
Speaker 11: I totally appreciate the two of you. You were amazing,
Speaker 11: both of you todays.
Speaker 1: So thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you for that opportunities. I appreciate everybody out
Speaker 2: there and TikTok Land and in YouTube lend.
Speaker 1: Thank you for being here.
Speaker 2: Everyone. We'll see y'all next week. We are here Sundays
Speaker 2: at four thirty PMS. Interesting in time until next time.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thanker, thank you Kelly, thank you, I alack.
Speaker 4: We start a.
Speaker 2: Stop today the well ship every thanks say y'all welcome.
Speaker 3: All day.
Speaker 11: Watch Talk Ethan Live Sundays at one pm Central. Visit
Speaker 11: tiny dot c c slash y t t H and
Speaker 11: call into the show at five one two nine nine
Speaker 11: one nine two four two, or connect to the show
Speaker 11: online at tiny dot c c slash call th H