1 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:21,359 --> 00:00:25,160 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at The 3 00:00:25,199 --> 00:00:29,800 Federalist and your experienced Shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:30,239 --> 00:00:32,960 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:37,359 the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, 6 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,039 make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 7 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,000 of course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:45,719 --> 00:00:48,759 Our guest today is Wade Miller, Senior advisor at the 9 00:00:48,799 --> 00:00:53,079 Center for Renewing America. We talk about the census bureaus 10 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,880 defrauding of the American voter. Houston. 11 00:00:57,719 --> 00:01:00,679 Speaker 2: We have a problem. We have a problem all. 12 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: Over Texas and across the United States of America when 13 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:08,280 it comes to the census. We're going to delve into 14 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,959 all of that today. Wade, thank you so much for 15 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,640 joining us on this edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. 16 00:01:14,159 --> 00:01:16,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. 17 00:01:16,239 --> 00:01:19,519 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, the work that you folks are doing to 18 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:24,719 really take a look at the numbers and communicate the 19 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:30,599 real problems here why American voters are being defrauded and 20 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,400 have been so for some time. I want to delve 21 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,719 into that. The twenty twenty census, as we know, counted 22 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:43,760 illegal immigrants for apportionment, diluting the vote of the American citizen, 23 00:01:44,599 --> 00:01:47,719 and as you note in a recent expost, thanks to 24 00:01:47,799 --> 00:01:53,239 shady differential privacy, we can't even verify citizenship status. As 25 00:01:53,239 --> 00:01:55,799 you know, it's time to add the question and scrap 26 00:01:55,879 --> 00:01:57,599 the algorithm. We're going to get into that in just 27 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:02,920 a moment. But if we have been living in this 28 00:02:03,079 --> 00:02:08,960 kind of fantasy world based on the numbers, when blue 29 00:02:09,039 --> 00:02:15,240 states have been over represented, given more representation than they 30 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,919 certainly deserve based on the numbers, why don't we get 31 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:24,719 into a mid decade census count? Should we begin there? 32 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. 33 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 3: There's a lot of different technical paths forward. 34 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 2: One would be a mid decade census. 35 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 3: That's a little bit more difficult because there are some 36 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:42,400 statutory provisions that suggest that you can't use a mid 37 00:02:42,479 --> 00:02:47,800 decade census for apportionment. However, what you can very easily do, 38 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,240 and by the way, I'm not saying that that's necessarily 39 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,639 correct or even constitutional, but that's some statutory prohibitions there. 40 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,560 But what you can easily do is republish and if 41 00:02:57,599 --> 00:03:01,439 you're republishing a prior census. That's not the same as 42 00:03:01,479 --> 00:03:05,120 conducting a mid decade or a brand new census, and 43 00:03:05,199 --> 00:03:08,120 so you should be able to get around those prohibitions 44 00:03:08,159 --> 00:03:11,680 fairly easy by just merely republishing a past census. 45 00:03:12,039 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: What would that do republishing a past sensus, what would 46 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:15,759 that open the door to. 47 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 3: Well, depending on what you account for in the data, 48 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,680 so you can if you're doing it. There's a lot 49 00:03:21,719 --> 00:03:23,599 of things you can account for. You and account for 50 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:28,879 shifts in voting patterns by various demographics, and that would 51 00:03:28,879 --> 00:03:33,240 come into play in the actual redistricting process, and less 52 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:37,159 so in the apportionment process. You can account for undercounts 53 00:03:37,159 --> 00:03:41,960 and overcounts. You can account for citizenship, and again there's 54 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,960 two paths you can go there. You can say, one 55 00:03:45,039 --> 00:03:48,680 legal path would be to claim that citizens are those 56 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:51,439 who are here illegally, and perhaps even those here legally 57 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,199 but are not citizens should not count for apportionment, and 58 00:03:55,240 --> 00:04:00,000 then then therefore that would affect the political redistricting process 59 00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:03,919 as well. Or you can claim that, okay, maybe illegals 60 00:04:03,919 --> 00:04:07,319 don't or maybe they do, and perhaps legal citizens count 61 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,879 for the purposes of apportionment, but they don't count for 62 00:04:10,919 --> 00:04:13,840 the purposes of redistricting, and those set up two very 63 00:04:13,879 --> 00:04:17,120 different legal fights, but they both get you to a 64 00:04:17,199 --> 00:04:18,839 similar overall outcome. 65 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:25,199 Speaker 1: It's with the court system the way it is right now, 66 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,360 I can only imagine how long these battles would play 67 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,319 out in court unless we have original jurisdiction to the 68 00:04:32,439 --> 00:04:33,319 US Supreme Court. 69 00:04:33,759 --> 00:04:35,959 Speaker 2: How would that work out legally? If you go down. 70 00:04:35,759 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: Those paths to contest where the census stands well. 71 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 3: Factoring in reality, like you've pointed out, the courts, I 72 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:45,839 think both are achievable. 73 00:04:45,879 --> 00:04:50,879 Speaker 2: Both paths are achievable. So the upside of if you want. 74 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 3: To republish and then not count legal or illegal people 75 00:04:58,759 --> 00:05:02,759 are immigrants here for the purposes of apportionment, then that 76 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:07,040 dictates how many seats or how many votes for the 77 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:12,040 purposes of electoral college or congressional seats that each state gets. However, 78 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,360 you would still argue that for the purposes of the 79 00:05:16,439 --> 00:05:20,560 political map, that they don't And I think that that's 80 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,639 a more difficult legal route, but I think doable, and 81 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,519 I think that the constitutional legal arguments are correct if 82 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,959 you wanted to go that route. So and then in 83 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,240 other words, California might lose four to six seats. Texas 84 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,680 might lose two to three, but for the purposes of redistricting, 85 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:37,920 you would not count. 86 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:39,639 Speaker 2: I'm sorry. 87 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,879 Speaker 3: Yes, if you don't count for apportionment, then a lot 88 00:05:44,959 --> 00:05:48,279 of states will lose and others will gain seats. If 89 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,800 you want to count for apportionment, then that's an easier 90 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,959 legal battle because you're saying, Okay, we're asking the system 91 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,560 ship question, but for the purposes of apportionment, all of 92 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,160 those people legal Andy Lee are going to account and 93 00:06:01,199 --> 00:06:03,800 the overall population and so all of the seats would 94 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,839 remain roughly the same amount. But you could still then 95 00:06:07,959 --> 00:06:11,560 say for the purposes of redistricting, they won't and that's 96 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:16,360 a whole different conversation either either way. With apportionment without 97 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,399 I think that the second route is probably legally easier 98 00:06:20,439 --> 00:06:24,279 because you're saying that there's no change to the apportionment process, really, 99 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:29,399 but for the political redistricting process, that's a whole you know, 100 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:30,800 guarantee clause. 101 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:31,639 Speaker 2: One person, one vote. 102 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,879 Speaker 3: I think that that's the easier because if you if 103 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,959 you don't change, if you change apportionment, you're having two 104 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,600 separate legal battles. If you don't change apportionment. Then you're 105 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,639 having the one legal battle and I think so therefore, 106 00:06:44,639 --> 00:06:48,120 I think that that ladder option is easier. But again, 107 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,879 the outcome is essentially the same. Yes, there are some changes. 108 00:06:51,959 --> 00:06:56,399 If you take the former route, it's more difficult, some 109 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,240 states lose, but because of the redistricting process itself, is 110 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,519 it basically the same in terms of nationwide I think 111 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,680 both outcomes would favor the right. And again this is 112 00:07:08,399 --> 00:07:11,879 coming from a I am conservative, I want I am 113 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,079 you know, I inherently biased to what will benefit the right. Sure, 114 00:07:16,319 --> 00:07:21,079 but even just putting aside trying to be objective, every 115 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,319 single thing that has gone wrong with the census has 116 00:07:23,399 --> 00:07:25,920 benefited the left and harm the right. And if you 117 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:29,279 just do it fairly, just objectively, fairly, the way it 118 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,040 should be done, it will significantly help the right over 119 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,959 the left in terms of how the maps look, potentially, 120 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,240 how the electoral college operates. There's just a lot of 121 00:07:39,319 --> 00:07:41,360 upside to wanting to do this, and it's also just 122 00:07:41,439 --> 00:07:42,319 the right thing to do. 123 00:07:43,279 --> 00:07:45,279 Speaker 1: And that's it. It is truly the right thing to do. 124 00:07:45,319 --> 00:07:48,439 We're going to delve into the details of why this 125 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:52,759 would be extremely meaningful for the right in this country. 126 00:07:53,439 --> 00:07:55,759 To say the least coming up. But I think before 127 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:56,439 we move on. 128 00:07:56,680 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 2: There are two closely related. 129 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: Terms in use here, but they are ultimately different in 130 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:09,079 meaning apportionment in redistricting. They're tied together, but they're not 131 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,680 the same thing, and that's where I think the confusion 132 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,920 comes in in this conversation. A lot of times. 133 00:08:15,279 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 3: That's right, and again, apportionment is just based off the 134 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:24,160 population in relation to other states and the total this 135 00:08:24,319 --> 00:08:27,759 is how many seats you're going to get. Redistricting is 136 00:08:27,839 --> 00:08:32,600 where those districts are placed within a state, And so 137 00:08:32,639 --> 00:08:36,240 if you change apportionment, there's going to be some movement 138 00:08:36,519 --> 00:08:40,039 on which states get how many seats. If you don't 139 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,039 change apportionment, that will stay the same. But either way, 140 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,679 if you change it for the purposes of redistricting, you're 141 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,200 going to have a seismic shift that will benefit the 142 00:08:49,279 --> 00:08:52,200 right overall. And we can talk about the various reasons 143 00:08:52,759 --> 00:08:55,159 for why that is, especially once you introduce some of 144 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,200 these other concepts that are playing into it. 145 00:08:57,879 --> 00:09:00,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess one of the questions that I have 146 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,320 have is this isn't anything new, right. I mean, twenty 147 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:08,399 twenty was bad. We saw a lot of undercounting in overcounting. 148 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:14,000 You point this out in your research, but this isn't 149 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,720 something that just has happened overnight. This is something that's 150 00:09:16,759 --> 00:09:19,440 going on for quite some time. And as you mentioned before, 151 00:09:19,519 --> 00:09:22,519 it seems to always benefit blue states. It seems to 152 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,279 always benefit liberals and democrats. Why is that. 153 00:09:27,039 --> 00:09:30,039 Speaker 2: Well, I have a lot of theories on that. 154 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 3: I think that there's at the most charitable read on 155 00:09:33,159 --> 00:09:37,120 this is that the bureaucrats who run the census are 156 00:09:37,639 --> 00:09:43,240 at least in the last couple have been kind of 157 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:44,840 of the deep state. 158 00:09:46,879 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 2: Mold. 159 00:09:47,519 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 3: They're either kind of centric, they come from centrist Republican regimes, 160 00:09:52,519 --> 00:09:55,759 or the Obama regime or the Biden regime. And so 161 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,679 I think that in the most charitable case, they have 162 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:03,879 figured out things, things that they have an objective argument for, 163 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,000 but by the way, also just so happened to help 164 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:08,799 their side significantly. 165 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 2: And I think that's the most charitable case I have. 166 00:10:11,279 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 3: You know, there's degrees of which it gets worse from there, 167 00:10:14,519 --> 00:10:17,200 and I think that there's certainly possibilities and where there's 168 00:10:17,279 --> 00:10:21,639 an intentional effort here to hide behind objectivity, but really 169 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:26,559 the actual agenda is to benefit their own side. And 170 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,360 you see you know, you are right that it is 171 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:33,480 not a new thing to have controversy around census outcomes. 172 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,320 I will say, however, I believe that the twenty twenty 173 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,000 census was the worst one in most of our lifetimes. 174 00:10:41,039 --> 00:10:44,559 I mean, there was some controversy around the nineteen ninety census, 175 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,399 but as a as an example, the twenty ten census nationwide, 176 00:10:49,519 --> 00:10:52,559 their post census study was that they missed the mark 177 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,240 by about thirty six thousand total over the entire country. 178 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:59,039 Speaker 2: That's how much they estimate that they were off. 179 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,919 Speaker 3: As an example, in the twenty twenty census, just in Texas, 180 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,120 they were off by five hundred and sixty thousand votes. 181 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 2: Wow. 182 00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:12,519 Speaker 3: They massively undercounted Florida, they massively undercounted Arizona, and they'll 183 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,320 sprinkle in some other blue states that they intercounted. But 184 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,120 by the way, those mistakes didn't actually cost those states. 185 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,360 And the net result was you basically had six seats 186 00:11:21,399 --> 00:11:23,679 that went to the Democrats that should not have gone 187 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,519 to Democrats, and six seats that should have an objective 188 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,759 account that was accurate gone to the right. And that's 189 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,559 just miscounts. There's so many other things that are manipulated. 190 00:11:34,799 --> 00:11:37,639 But I think that the twenty twenty census process was 191 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,080 the most corrupt and fraudulent that we've had in our lifetimes. 192 00:11:41,279 --> 00:11:46,279 Speaker 1: It's interesting that you say that as well, because what 193 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:51,279 we experienced on the election front. Certainly there's a good 194 00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:54,720 deal of evidence what we know the election was rigged. 195 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,240 We don't know all of the places where the votes turned, 196 00:11:59,279 --> 00:12:04,440 but we knew going in that the left would use 197 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,240 and they did use COVID to their advantage in a 198 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,679 number of different places. They also obviously used the census 199 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,080 in twenty twenty. So this is a combination really of 200 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:16,919 the deep state the administrative state. 201 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I would be more inclined to go the 202 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:25,200 charitable route of this is just an unconscious bias of 203 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,440 the left that tends to help them. 204 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 2: Except for the last decade. 205 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 3: We've seen the most weaponization of the federal government since at. 206 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,279 Speaker 2: Least this fifties and sixties. 207 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 3: At least we've had censorship Industrial complex, We've had COVID 208 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,279 era policies that were completely corrupt. We've had all sorts 209 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:48,159 of weaponization on virtually every front of the deep state, 210 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,279 and with every mechanism of power in the federal government 211 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,000 by the left. So I just think it's it is 212 00:12:56,159 --> 00:12:59,559 strange the preponderance of the facts here kind of all 213 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:04,720 till towards how is it that all of these errors. 214 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 2: Just so happened. 215 00:13:04,399 --> 00:13:09,200 Speaker 3: I mean, it's technically plausible from a statistics perspective that 216 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,000 it could have been random, but it just seems irrational 217 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,679 to believe that it's random when you see how this 218 00:13:15,799 --> 00:13:19,600 policy works. How they admit that it's what it does, 219 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,480 and then in conjunction with all of the other weaponization 220 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:23,480 of the federal government. 221 00:13:23,759 --> 00:13:27,799 Speaker 1: But wait, even if this is a gigantic whoopsie on 222 00:13:27,919 --> 00:13:31,759 the part of the bureaucrats in the Census Bureau, that 223 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,679 still does not negate the fact that voters across this 224 00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:41,159 country were screwed out of representation and they were screwed 225 00:13:41,399 --> 00:13:45,399 royally if I can turn the expression, that's correct. 226 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,799 Speaker 2: And importantly, the Census admits this. 227 00:13:47,919 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 3: They admit that this was a big failure, and their 228 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,320 excuse is COVID era policies. I don't know if that's 229 00:13:54,879 --> 00:13:58,639 if they're basically blaming the mechanism by which they used 230 00:13:59,039 --> 00:14:02,200 to get this result intentionally as the cause of it, 231 00:14:02,279 --> 00:14:04,759 and they're kind of showing their hand. But there was 232 00:14:04,799 --> 00:14:06,480 a lot of things that went wrong with the twenty 233 00:14:06,519 --> 00:14:09,759 twenty count and a big part of this, and we 234 00:14:09,799 --> 00:14:12,200 can get into differential privacy, and we can get into 235 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,480 what's called a CQR and a bit, but the main 236 00:14:14,519 --> 00:14:16,919 point here is this is to say that there was 237 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,600 a policy that you could have used in previous censuses 238 00:14:20,639 --> 00:14:23,080 to help correct some of that data in real time. 239 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,200 It's called a CQR account question resolution. But because of 240 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,080 some of the changes that they made in twenty twenty, 241 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,799 differential privacy being one of them, that process was unable 242 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,120 to be used. And the argument was, so if they 243 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,960 used it to keep the census accurate, then they would 244 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:46,960 have divulged a confidential algorithmic process that they're using which 245 00:14:47,039 --> 00:14:50,600 was not publicly available, and only a very few people 246 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,120 the Census had clearance to access to it what was 247 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,919 called the Tiger file. So this was the raw data 248 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,960 that had not been manipulated. It's only a very few people, 249 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,759 not even people, and other federal agencies have access to this. 250 00:15:04,559 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 2: And think about that for a minute. 251 00:15:06,519 --> 00:15:08,799 Speaker 3: If the data was wrong, and they admit it's wrong, 252 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,399 and in fact it's an intentional process to make the 253 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,440 data wrong, all of the other federal agencies rely on 254 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,639 that data. We're basically think of this, all of the 255 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:23,279 federal funding formulas that dictate hundreds of different federal programs 256 00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:26,679 and how money gets allocated across the country, they're all 257 00:15:26,799 --> 00:15:32,279 using fake data. So it's possible, based on there are research, 258 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:34,080 and based on a lot of other people who have 259 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,440 done similar research, that rural communities have been massively underfunded 260 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,840 and cities have been massively overfunding funded because the census 261 00:15:41,919 --> 00:15:45,960 data gives everyone fake data and we're not allowed to 262 00:15:46,039 --> 00:15:49,519 correct it any longer because an attempt to correct it 263 00:15:50,159 --> 00:15:54,639 would give access or potentially they would argue give insight 264 00:15:54,679 --> 00:15:57,320 into their algorithms that are confidential. 265 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,879 Speaker 4: If you've been a victim of affinity fraud, the watch 266 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,759 Dot on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski every day, 267 00:16:05,879 --> 00:16:08,840 Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy 268 00:16:08,879 --> 00:16:11,600 and how it affects your wallet. Although someone could look 269 00:16:11,679 --> 00:16:14,440 like you, talk like you, relate to you, don't be 270 00:16:14,519 --> 00:16:17,840 convinced you can trust them with money. Whether it's your church, parish, 271 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,360 a union, don't be a victim of Don't be a 272 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,879 victim of a scam. Whether it's happening in DC or 273 00:16:22,879 --> 00:16:25,440 down on Wall Street, it's affecting you financially be informed. 274 00:16:25,519 --> 00:16:27,360 Check out the watch Dot on Wall Street podcast with 275 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,639 Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. 276 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,879 Speaker 1: That is absolutely unconscionable when you think about it, because 277 00:16:37,879 --> 00:16:41,799 it's representation. Obviously that is the cornerstone of all of this. 278 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,399 But we're also talking about how funding is distributed from 279 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:52,000 federal tax dollars to states across the country, to localities 280 00:16:52,039 --> 00:16:58,519 across the country. And again it's clear that, as you say, 281 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:04,720 red areas, particularly rural small town areas, have been underfunded, 282 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,119 and there's no way, it seems to go back and say, 283 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:14,799 our oopsie needs to be corrected and the rightful representation, 284 00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:20,400 the rightful allocations need to go to these places. But 285 00:17:20,519 --> 00:17:25,839 let me ask you this, how many Republicans? How many 286 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,240 more Republicans would be in Congress, the House and Senate 287 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:32,880 now if we would have had a fair reading on 288 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:34,039 these numbers. 289 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 3: If the census was done accurately, without any changes in 290 00:17:39,039 --> 00:17:42,839 terms of how we count the population. For just assume 291 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,039 that we count the population accurately using all of the 292 00:17:46,079 --> 00:17:49,640 processes that were still there, even the ones I disagree with. 293 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,559 Probably six at least six seats went to the Democrats 294 00:17:54,559 --> 00:17:57,640 that should have gone to Republicans if you just count, 295 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,720 if you count for all the rest of it, This 296 00:18:00,759 --> 00:18:02,680 is the part we're still doing a deep dive into. 297 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,599 Really the Some estimates are twelve, other estimates are thirty 298 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:07,160 to forty. 299 00:18:07,279 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 2: I actually think it's on the higher end. 300 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 3: If you redo redistricting and take out some of these populations, 301 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,720 I think that it's going to be in the thirty. 302 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,720 That's just kind of pulling a hat eye. We are 303 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,319 working on this part of the equation of if you 304 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,240 do this, then this will be the byproduct of it. 305 00:18:29,319 --> 00:18:33,920 But I think that my preliminary assessment is it would 306 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:38,279 be dozens potentially go to Republicans nationwide. 307 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,319 Speaker 1: So at least six with the Bear numbers the Bear process. 308 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:49,119 But again, your estimation here is significantly higher, and that 309 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,839 I think should resonate with Americans across the country, but 310 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:58,920 it should particularly resonate in red states. So to the 311 00:18:59,039 --> 00:19:03,960 current controvert see where we have Texas liberals hiding out 312 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:11,079 in Illinois, of all places, protesting gerrymandered districts in Texas, 313 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:16,559 or at least the plan as they call it, gerrymander 314 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,640 in Texas. They go to a state that is a 315 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:25,480 blue state that is arguably the most gerrymandered state in 316 00:19:25,759 --> 00:19:29,359 the country, and so while they're debating all of this, 317 00:19:29,599 --> 00:19:35,240 nobody's truly really talking about how they got a huge 318 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,319 The left got a huge advantage from miscounting from this 319 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:40,400 bad census. 320 00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:44,759 Speaker 3: That's right, and you know, we can get into differential 321 00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:48,480 privacy here in a minute, But in Texas that has 322 00:19:48,599 --> 00:19:52,519 really been a huge impact in terms of making it 323 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:57,519 harder to write maps that in a fair setting would 324 00:19:57,759 --> 00:20:01,359 would ultimately the outcome would that it benefits the right 325 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,359 more than the left. The left has been a massive 326 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:09,839 beneficiary in Texas of differential privacy, and that's why I 327 00:20:09,839 --> 00:20:13,319 think that one of the requests from the Trump administration 328 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,839 is that Texas redo this on a number of fronts, 329 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,119 one the illegal aliens question, and I'm hoping the longer 330 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,839 term fight here will be also on differential privacy, especially 331 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,680 for the twenty thirty since this process that's about to 332 00:20:28,079 --> 00:20:32,079 spin up here, and then just accounting for where these 333 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:33,680 populations are in Texas. 334 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,559 Speaker 2: Once you know that, it shifts. 335 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,559 Speaker 3: Political power towards the big cities, and then the left 336 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,119 uses know what har Meat Dillon and others have argued 337 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:49,680 or unconstitutional minority majority district districts to their favor, although 338 00:20:50,039 --> 00:20:53,279 there's some argument that in red states that actually can 339 00:20:53,319 --> 00:20:56,759 be used to the rights advantage. I don't really care 340 00:20:56,799 --> 00:21:00,000 about who what advantage is who here. I care about 341 00:21:00,079 --> 00:21:03,599 out is that a constitutional process, And I think that 342 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,240 the idea that you would create a district based on 343 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,440 racial makeup alone is unconstitutional anyways, and I think that 344 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:11,799 we should be moving away from that. 345 00:21:12,039 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 2: But certainly the. 346 00:21:12,759 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 3: Left and many have hid behind all of these various 347 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,400 things to concentrate power in the cities, which dilutes political 348 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,160 power of the rural areas and helps. 349 00:21:22,279 --> 00:21:23,799 Speaker 2: Democrats make legal. 350 00:21:23,559 --> 00:21:25,599 Speaker 3: Arguments in the courts of why they need a lot 351 00:21:25,599 --> 00:21:28,480 of different districts, whether at the state level, the state 352 00:21:28,559 --> 00:21:31,759 legislative level, the congressional level, et cetera. 353 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 2: So this is they've been hiding behind this. 354 00:21:34,079 --> 00:21:37,480 Speaker 3: And I think that Texas recognizing all of these things also, 355 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,960 by the way, recognizing in Texas, and this isn't true everywhere, 356 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,920 but in Texas, the Hispanic vote is about fifty to 357 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:48,119 fifty if not leans towards Republicans, and so nationwide, Democrats 358 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,480 have really relied on using that to form Democrat districts. 359 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,480 But it doesn't actually work that way in Texas, and 360 00:21:53,519 --> 00:21:56,359 so any consideration of that in the past, I think, 361 00:21:56,599 --> 00:22:00,400 based on the last election, Republicans in Texas should use 362 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,920 that to rewrite the maps more favorably to themselves, because 363 00:22:04,079 --> 00:22:06,519 I think that that would actually be a fair outcome 364 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,400 based on what the data allows. 365 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,799 Speaker 1: It says yes, and as you say, it is ultimately 366 00:22:11,839 --> 00:22:14,079 what is right, and we don't mean that in a 367 00:22:14,079 --> 00:22:17,640 conservative sense. We mean that in a constitutional sense. Our 368 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,839 guest today is Wade Miller, Senior advisor at the Center 369 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:25,519 for Renewing America, talking today about the census bureaus defrauding 370 00:22:26,079 --> 00:22:31,720 of the American voter. It has been absolutely shameful the 371 00:22:31,759 --> 00:22:37,119 consequences therein As we said earlier, you noted this recently 372 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,519 in an ex post. The twenty twenty cents has counted 373 00:22:40,519 --> 00:22:44,799 illegal immigrants for apportionment, diluting your vote as a citizen. 374 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:51,599 Thanks to shady differential privacy, we can't even verify citizenship status. 375 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:57,400 Tell us what differential privacy is and what is needed 376 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,160 to make sure that we can verify and ship status. 377 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,440 Speaker 3: Sure, so a quick rundown of how it's supposed to work, 378 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,039 so you can really understand you know, the census spins up, 379 00:23:08,039 --> 00:23:09,920 it hires a lot of people, it gets out there, 380 00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:13,319 tries to reach out, It counts a lot of door knocking, 381 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:14,720 a lot of things going out in the mail. 382 00:23:15,079 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 2: Then there's an. 383 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 3: Entire process to reconcile the data to make sure that 384 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,279 there's not errors. You know, someone being counted at a 385 00:23:21,279 --> 00:23:24,359 residence and a living center, or someone being counted at 386 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:28,079 a residence and a dorm, a college dorm. They should 387 00:23:28,079 --> 00:23:29,839 only kind of want which one should they count at. 388 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,039 And then there should be a whole process for cities 389 00:23:32,079 --> 00:23:36,079 and states and counties to submit data, to try to 390 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,559 fix erroneous reporting, reconcile it all, and then you have 391 00:23:39,599 --> 00:23:42,839 what's called a tiger file, and this is the raw data. Now, 392 00:23:43,519 --> 00:23:49,160 there are some concerns on various aspects characteristic data for individuals, 393 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,960 about privacy, and I'm open to Okay, I get that 394 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,960 anything that's foilable, I think that it shouldn't be. 395 00:23:57,079 --> 00:23:58,519 Speaker 2: But you know, if we want. 396 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 3: To protect religious affiliation data because we just don't want 397 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,720 the government to know or whatever, Okay, fine, but there's 398 00:24:04,759 --> 00:24:08,200 some data that is directly real, has a direct relationship 399 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:14,759 to actual apportionment and actual redistricting. One is population, other 400 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,079 is eligible citizens. 401 00:24:16,599 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 2: So we should not be changing that. 402 00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:21,319 Speaker 3: And so what happens through differential privacy is they run 403 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,559 this algorithm on the data and it scrambles the data 404 00:24:24,599 --> 00:24:26,640 and moves it all over the place. So if you 405 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,680 don't do differential data, this is the way it's supposed 406 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,519 to work. A state would get the numbers statewide totals. 407 00:24:32,039 --> 00:24:34,559 Then you have county level numbers. Then you have census 408 00:24:34,599 --> 00:24:36,920 track numbers, and then within the census tractor you have 409 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,359 block groups, and then within the block groups you have blocks, 410 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,680 and all of those block those numbers add into one 411 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,759 each other accurately all the way to the top, and 412 00:24:44,759 --> 00:24:47,559 then the state wide totals are all good. So the 413 00:24:47,599 --> 00:24:51,960 math works when you use differential privacy. The only data 414 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,319 that's accurate assuming the count was correct in the first place, 415 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,400 and that was not the case in twenty twenty. The 416 00:24:57,519 --> 00:25:00,400 counts were off. But assuming that the data is correct, 417 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,720 and we've done a really robust process, we've got it 418 00:25:02,759 --> 00:25:07,720 down to a very small degree of air. What happens 419 00:25:07,759 --> 00:25:10,400 is they run differential privacy and it moves the data 420 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,720 all around, and how much we don't know because they 421 00:25:13,759 --> 00:25:18,680 don't give anyone access to the algorithm. A very small 422 00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:22,160 number of people at the Census Bureau have access to 423 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,480 this people and other federal agencies don't have access to 424 00:25:25,519 --> 00:25:28,759 this information. You have to have a special clearance. And 425 00:25:28,839 --> 00:25:31,160 so here's the problem. There's been a lot of studies 426 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,599 on some of the open source versions of this, and 427 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,559 it has shown that populations have been moved around, which 428 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,319 impacts a lot of things. It impacts redistricting, It impacts 429 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,400 federal funding formulas and how much money communities get. But 430 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,359 as an example of how this might work, let's just 431 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,880 say that the city of Millersburg. It's a fictional city 432 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,240 in Texas. There maybe there is a Millersburg, but let's 433 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:58,240 just say Millersburg and it has a population of five hundred. Well, 434 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,079 after differential privacy, they might be listed as four hundred 435 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,000 and sixty two. 436 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 2: And all of the rest of the characteristic data. 437 00:26:06,279 --> 00:26:12,599 Speaker 3: Also changes, so like what percentage of our people are male, female, white, Black, Asian, Hispanic, 438 00:26:12,839 --> 00:26:15,079 all of that data is skewed. And so the reason 439 00:26:15,079 --> 00:26:19,759 that this all matters one is because if it's skewing 440 00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:23,039 towards the cities, and again we don't know that we 441 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,160 know that there's a problem. We know that the data 442 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,240 is not accurate, so the question is to what degree, 443 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,079 and is it two percent or is it forty percent 444 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,720 or is it two percent on some things, but for 445 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:39,279 purposes of citizenship, it's a forty percent change. So in 446 00:26:39,319 --> 00:26:42,640 other words, it really messes up the data. And this 447 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,519 is an important point the Trump administration can insist on 448 00:26:46,759 --> 00:26:51,559 and actually get the citizenship question asked. But if we 449 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,400 have differential privacy in place, we won't know where. 450 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 2: They're at in the cities or in the states. 451 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,599 Speaker 3: And that matters for redistricting because let's just assume that 452 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,640 seventy percent of the illegal alien population is in a 453 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,799 big city or one of its suburbs, and that someone 454 00:27:06,839 --> 00:27:10,240 can do some research and given the exact number, but 455 00:27:10,559 --> 00:27:14,000 it's more than half. And so if a large majority 456 00:27:14,079 --> 00:27:18,119 of this population are in urban or big city settings, 457 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:24,960 then the population is weighted towards the city inaccurately. So 458 00:27:25,079 --> 00:27:28,240 if that's reality, then we can account If we know that, 459 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,119 then we can account for it, and we can in redistricting. 460 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,799 We can draw accurate maps that only account for people 461 00:27:35,799 --> 00:27:38,839 who can vote. But if you have differential privacy on 462 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,640 top of this, before you get to redistricting, then you 463 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,319 don't know where they're at and you don't know how 464 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,920 to account for them. So yes, you can ask the 465 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:51,960 citizenship question, and yes that might affect apportionment, but it 466 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,839 won't help you on redistricting. So while it might take 467 00:27:55,839 --> 00:27:59,000 four or five seats from California and or you know, 468 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,920 two or three from texts, is, if you don't know 469 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:04,799 where they're at within a state, then you can't then 470 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,039 reaccount for that in the redistricting. And a little bit 471 00:28:08,039 --> 00:28:10,440 of it as a wash that now that alone will 472 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,920 help the right, They will benefit in terms of electoral uh, 473 00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:18,720 in terms of congressional representation in Congress, But if you 474 00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:21,559 really want the big swing here, you have to know 475 00:28:21,599 --> 00:28:24,039 where they're at. You have to know you know what 476 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,240 percentage of them are in Dallas, what percentage of them 477 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:28,319 are in Houston, what percentage of them are in San Antonio, 478 00:28:28,319 --> 00:28:30,559 what percentage of them are in Austin. Because if you 479 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,839 know that then and you account for it, you are 480 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,119 pushing political power away from those big cities. And in 481 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,720 the past, this is where Democrats get their seats. They 482 00:28:39,799 --> 00:28:43,480 draw up districts that are uh, you know, all within 483 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,599 the Dallas city lines or all within you know, the 484 00:28:47,599 --> 00:28:51,599 inner parts of Houston, and this is where they do it. 485 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,319 And it's harder to cut that up if you're the 486 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,640 rights because there's so much population. There's just not enough 487 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,960 rural population to cut those up in a way that 488 00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:03,759 doesn't give Democrats to these seats. So if you know 489 00:29:03,759 --> 00:29:05,480 where they're at and you can account for it, it's 490 00:29:05,519 --> 00:29:08,079 going to be really hard for in any state. By 491 00:29:08,119 --> 00:29:10,880 the way, in California, it will be much more difficult 492 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,960 for California if they can't count illegals, because we know 493 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,559 exactly where they're at, and then the power will be 494 00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:21,640 pushed into the red rural parts of California. Now, California 495 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,519 will still have majority Democrat seats, but it won't. 496 00:29:24,319 --> 00:29:26,359 Speaker 2: Be as scuted as it is right now. Same thing 497 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:27,799 with New York, same. 498 00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:29,359 Speaker 3: Thing with a lot of other New Jerseys, same thing 499 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,640 with Maryland, a lot of other Blue states. They will 500 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,079 have a much harder time to write their maps in 501 00:29:36,119 --> 00:29:39,880 a way that advantages them to the degree that they've 502 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,279 been doing because right now they rely on in California, 503 00:29:42,319 --> 00:29:46,200 for instance, they allow millions of illegal aliens to wait 504 00:29:46,519 --> 00:29:50,079 the population center, so they can essentially carve out all 505 00:29:50,119 --> 00:29:53,119 of these red rural districts but out vote them with 506 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,359 these large populations in the cities. 507 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:57,440 Speaker 2: And so this is the way it works. 508 00:29:57,519 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 3: If you account for that, then it's a seismic shift 509 00:30:01,359 --> 00:30:03,839 in electoral power in Congress. 510 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 2: And the electoral college. 511 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: Isn't Millersburg in the greater Lukenbach, Texas metro area. If 512 00:30:10,759 --> 00:30:13,079 I'm not mistaked, it might be it might be made 513 00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:16,839 nobody feel no pain there, although they are feeling pain electorally, 514 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,319 which is what this conversation is truly all about. You'll 515 00:30:19,359 --> 00:30:22,240 have to forgive me too if I feel a little 516 00:30:22,279 --> 00:30:25,440 bit triggered when I hear the term algorithm. Is this 517 00:30:25,519 --> 00:30:28,799 the same kind of stuff that was used by oh, 518 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:34,720 I don't know, social network companies like Twitter and Facebook 519 00:30:34,759 --> 00:30:38,079 and or Meta and Google and the rest to set 520 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,720 up algorithms, of course, to censor conservatives. It feels a 521 00:30:41,759 --> 00:30:43,200 lot like that in this way. 522 00:30:44,039 --> 00:30:49,039 Speaker 3: Yes, social media platforms, big tech they use differential privacy 523 00:30:49,079 --> 00:30:53,480 as a process in theory to protect their consumers and 524 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,640 to predict data and some privacy elements, but the application 525 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:03,279 of it in the sense is is skewed. Now again, 526 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,160 you can have a process that protects important data, but 527 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,000 I think that there is a compelling governmental interest to 528 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:17,319 not protect citizenship data, to not protect population data. Now, 529 00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:21,359 the privacy advocates here, in the most charitable sense, will 530 00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:25,359 say that if we don't move the population down around 531 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,160 at least somewhat, then people can reverse engineer the algorithm. 532 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:35,079 But again, you know, most of this data is public anyways, 533 00:31:35,119 --> 00:31:38,480 and so like we just need to if there's an 534 00:31:38,599 --> 00:31:43,119 argument that that personal privacy is a is a concept 535 00:31:43,119 --> 00:31:45,319 that needs to be considered here, there's other ways to 536 00:31:45,359 --> 00:31:48,240 do it, and we're not doing that right now. And 537 00:31:48,279 --> 00:31:51,880 the biggest problem is, of course there's just no transparency 538 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,480 over it. No one knows, like I do not know, 539 00:31:54,519 --> 00:31:58,000 and I don't have access to what is the algorithm? 540 00:31:58,039 --> 00:31:58,759 Speaker 2: How much does the. 541 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:02,519 Speaker 3: Algorithm move around people on the basis of citizenship status, 542 00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:04,759 because they have a lot of that data, but they 543 00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:08,640 just mask it so it's not used. They can ascertain 544 00:32:08,759 --> 00:32:11,279 a lot of the based on all of the information 545 00:32:11,319 --> 00:32:14,200 they pull in all the social security data, all of 546 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,400 these various characteristic datas, they can come up with a 547 00:32:18,519 --> 00:32:22,200 rough answer on which portions of these populations are legal, 548 00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:26,160 legal or citizens. But we do need to actually formally 549 00:32:26,319 --> 00:32:28,559 ask the question, and we need to not hide it, 550 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,920 and then we also need to have a very transparent 551 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,599 process for cities and states to reconcile, because if a 552 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,880 city has seven hundred and eighty property tax paying citizens 553 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,599 but the Census says they have five hundred citizens, there 554 00:32:42,599 --> 00:32:46,160 should be a process by which this small city can 555 00:32:47,359 --> 00:32:51,160 submit a request because that's a twenty five percent cut 556 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,160 in any funding formulas that they might be granted that 557 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,079 the state allocates, the county allocates, that the federal government allocates. 558 00:32:58,279 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 2: There's a lot of public interest. 559 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,599 Speaker 3: Reasons is why this data should not be masked and 560 00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:05,559 that we should have important data. But the big takeaway 561 00:33:05,559 --> 00:33:08,559 from all of this is all of this data that 562 00:33:08,599 --> 00:33:13,920 we're making apportionment that we're making redistricting off of that 563 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,839 we're making using for funding federal funding formulas, it's all fake. 564 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:22,000 It's and it's intentionally designed to be fake. The question 565 00:33:22,119 --> 00:33:25,720 is to what degree is it fake? And again, no 566 00:33:25,759 --> 00:33:28,599 one knows because it's not an open source algorithm. 567 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,319 Speaker 2: None of us are given insight into it. 568 00:33:30,799 --> 00:33:33,079 Speaker 3: And I don't have a lot of confidence that Obama 569 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,599 error bureaucrats who run the Census are doing this fairly, 570 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,680 and so we need someone to dig into this. We 571 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,440 need to get rid of it as a process anyways, 572 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,839 But I'd like to know is it really a scientifically narrow. 573 00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:47,559 Speaker 2: Window that we're off Is it one percent? Is it 574 00:33:47,599 --> 00:33:48,160 two percent? 575 00:33:48,839 --> 00:33:51,759 Speaker 3: Or is it like is it a significant amount? And 576 00:33:51,799 --> 00:33:54,680 if it is, we should have congressional hearings. People should 577 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,920 be held accountable because this isn't it That would be 578 00:33:57,319 --> 00:34:02,000 an intentional manipulation of data to change change the political process. 579 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 2: In a way that no one is aware of and 580 00:34:04,279 --> 00:34:05,119 no one voted on. 581 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 1: Well, that's a good question. The Trump administration. President Trump 582 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:15,119 is back in the White House. You mentioned that only 583 00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:18,960 a very small group of bureaucrats in the Census Bureau 584 00:34:19,119 --> 00:34:25,880 have control over this information. I would assume. I don't 585 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,320 want to assume anything, So I ask you, does the 586 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:35,719 president and those who act in his name do they 587 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,360 have the power to truly dig into this, just like 588 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,400 we have seen in other areas where the deep state 589 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:43,239 has been exposed. 590 00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:48,079 Speaker 2: Yes, they do have power to change this, to. 591 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 3: Really fundamentally transform the Census Bureau itself and the processes. 592 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,199 So yes, one of the problems we had and the 593 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:02,800 last admin is that you know, the Census, the person 594 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,079 who's ultimately in charge of the Census at the cabinet 595 00:35:05,159 --> 00:35:06,880 level is usually not a person who knows a lot 596 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,400 about the census, because it's that's a sub program of 597 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,480 a larger department, like right now it's under the Commerce department, 598 00:35:13,559 --> 00:35:17,639 and Howard Lutnik is in charge of Commerce. Howard's a 599 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,000 very smart guy, and I have a lot of confidence 600 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,119 that when he pays attention to this, and he may 601 00:35:23,119 --> 00:35:26,400 already have that, he will dig into it and correct it. 602 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,039 But I'm assuming that Howard Lutnak coming into this was 603 00:35:29,079 --> 00:35:32,880 not a census expert. And this is where the bureaucracy 604 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,280 gets away with this is it's a highly technical, mathematical, 605 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:41,000 algorithmic argument and it has a veneer of legitimacy under 606 00:35:41,039 --> 00:35:44,920 protecting privacy, and I don't think until recently very many 607 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,239 people understood. So I've sent my paper over to some 608 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,960 folks and the Trump admin. I am very confident that 609 00:35:52,039 --> 00:35:54,440 if Stephen Miller wraps his head around this, and he 610 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,559 may already have known about it too, that he I 611 00:35:57,599 --> 00:36:00,199 have a lot of faith in Howard Lutnick and Stevevan 612 00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:02,920 Miller to get to the bottom of this and fix it, 613 00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:07,960 because they're both both very bought into needing to fix this, 614 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,559 and they're both big believers in the type of. 615 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 2: Reforms that need to take place. 616 00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:15,280 Speaker 3: I think that the one X factor here is do 617 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,360 they truly have a grasp of differential privacy? If not, 618 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,480 I would highly encourage them to get to look into it. 619 00:36:23,519 --> 00:36:25,639 And I think that what's needed is they need to 620 00:36:25,639 --> 00:36:30,000 get rid of the bureaucrats who have been holdovers from 621 00:36:30,559 --> 00:36:35,800 previous administrations and really bring in some new blood who 622 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,840 get it. And there's three or four people that are 623 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,079 pretty smart guys, and I've forgotten some of their names. 624 00:36:40,559 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 2: Don't ask me, but I do have in my research. 625 00:36:43,159 --> 00:36:46,280 Speaker 3: I've come across some people who recognize this problem, want 626 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,920 to get to the bottom of it, and would dutifully 627 00:36:50,199 --> 00:36:52,800 take the lead on this and be faithful to the 628 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,320 Trump administration's efforts to change this. 629 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:57,840 Speaker 2: So you know, we'll see. 630 00:36:58,639 --> 00:37:03,639 Speaker 3: But it's one last thing. The last Trump administration started 631 00:37:03,639 --> 00:37:05,280 to figure some of this out, and this is why 632 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,519 they tried to get the citizenship question asked towards the end, 633 00:37:09,639 --> 00:37:12,280 but they ran out of runway. So Trump is aware. 634 00:37:12,559 --> 00:37:14,440 I think they're aware of how to do this correctly 635 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:16,280 this time. I just don't what I don't know is 636 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,119 do they know all of the variables or just some 637 00:37:19,199 --> 00:37:21,360 of them. They certainly know some of them. And I've 638 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:22,960 seen a lot of public reports that they want to 639 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,360 fix a lot of it. Stephen Miller's been very public 640 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,320 on wanting to get to the bottom of a lot. 641 00:37:27,159 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 2: Of this and fix it. 642 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 3: So I'm hoping that they understand this and will reform it, 643 00:37:31,679 --> 00:37:34,480 get rid of differential privacy, or at least fix it 644 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,400 to a considerable degree so that doesn't affect the characteristic 645 00:37:37,519 --> 00:37:39,679 data that we're concerned about here. 646 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,480 Speaker 1: Well, they better fix it now because thirty is coming 647 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,079 on fast. And what you just said to me was 648 00:37:46,679 --> 00:37:50,360 to all of us, is that what needs to happen 649 00:37:50,559 --> 00:37:56,800 to really restore the republic is to ultimately change what 650 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,840 is going on and get rid of people in this bureacracy. 651 00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:04,360 You know, this bureaucracy that we don't think about too often. 652 00:38:04,519 --> 00:38:10,559 You know that seemingly plays a very, you know, small role, 653 00:38:10,679 --> 00:38:16,320 but has massive consequences for everything that happens in this republic. 654 00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:21,440 Are you hopeful because twenty eight is not promised to 655 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,960 the people who will truly be interested in reforming this, 656 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:30,480 Do you think that true reform will come to this 657 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:32,519 very important agency. 658 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,599 Speaker 3: I think so I'm fairly confident we're going to see 659 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,000 a significant shift in policy. 660 00:38:39,039 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 2: I just don't know if. 661 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 3: It's going to be everything, Like if I could just 662 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,800 snap my fingers, will it be all of that or 663 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,519 will it be seventy five percent of it? Either way, 664 00:38:47,559 --> 00:38:50,239 I think that the next census will be done in 665 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,280 a fair process. That is, that will then be used 666 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,280 to make a more representative map of the United States, 667 00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:02,079 and that will inherently, I think, if it's fair, benefit 668 00:39:02,119 --> 00:39:05,480 the right. So the question is will it be you know, 669 00:39:05,639 --> 00:39:08,480 so we're getting in theory if they republish the data 670 00:39:08,559 --> 00:39:12,719 at least maybe six seats that shift back and that 671 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,840 the right would get. And then you've seen various redistricting plans. 672 00:39:16,199 --> 00:39:18,639 You know, you saw one one ongoing in Texas that 673 00:39:18,679 --> 00:39:21,039 would be a net five, and you know, other Republican 674 00:39:21,079 --> 00:39:22,920 states have said that they might do this. 675 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 2: Some blue states have threatened this. But I just don't 676 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,360 think that it's they. 677 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,280 Speaker 3: I don't think they're going to net very many seats, 678 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,280 not nearly as many as the right can do, because 679 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,719 they've already basically done this. They just did it in 680 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,280 the normal redistricting process and the Right didn't push as 681 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,719 hard as they could, So we're going to get some 682 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,400 seats in the next I hope by the mid terms 683 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,400 here and then through the republishing and then through some 684 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,320 of the redistricting maps, and then I think if you 685 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,760 just do the process even normally, I think the right, 686 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,679 because of population changes, is going to have an additional 687 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,320 swing their way of several seats. And then if you 688 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,000 get into some of the fundamental reforms, like accounting for 689 00:40:03,039 --> 00:40:07,719 illegals and potentially legal immigrants who can't vote in terms 690 00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,360 of drawing districts or apportionment, then that's where you're talking 691 00:40:12,039 --> 00:40:13,480 potentially dozens of seats. 692 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,280 Speaker 1: What's the number on this, I think that's what a 693 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,280 lot of Americans are trying to figure out. How many 694 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:24,440 people who cannot vote, whether they're illegal immigrants or here 695 00:40:25,679 --> 00:40:28,920 in this country authorized to be in this country but 696 00:40:29,079 --> 00:40:34,639 not legal voters. How many were counted in twenty twenty. 697 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,519 Speaker 2: For purposes of apportionment, it was millions. 698 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,039 Speaker 3: I think that if you accurately count every person physically 699 00:40:44,079 --> 00:40:49,360 in the United States, you're talking somewhere between twenty and 700 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,360 fifty million, and I've seen other estimates that they're more 701 00:40:53,039 --> 00:40:56,880 that are counted, and I can get the exact number. 702 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,159 It might even be in the study I've come across 703 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:00,679 it in terms of how many we're counted in the 704 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:05,039 last one, But again that's an extrapolation and estimate because 705 00:41:05,079 --> 00:41:07,800 we don't actually know because of differential privacy. That's one 706 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:09,880 of the things that Trump administration is trying to get 707 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,199 done to the republishing is going back in to get 708 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:18,480 into this data and account for some of these data 709 00:41:18,519 --> 00:41:21,119 mistakes and then correct them. But if you do correct 710 00:41:21,119 --> 00:41:26,039 them in republishing, you could be talking about twenty to 711 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,440 fifty million that would not be kind of for apportion Now, 712 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,000 if you don't want to fight the apportionment battle, then 713 00:41:33,039 --> 00:41:35,360 you're then you're talking about twenty to fifty million that 714 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,599 would not be counted for purposes of creating a political 715 00:41:38,639 --> 00:41:42,719 district in the States after apportionment is assigned, it's a. 716 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:43,360 Speaker 2: Lot of people. 717 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:47,559 Speaker 3: It's moving millions and millions of people, mostly away from 718 00:41:47,599 --> 00:41:52,119 big cities, and that would represent a seismic shift of 719 00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:55,440 political power in the United States away from major metropolitan 720 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,599 areas towards rural America. 721 00:41:58,199 --> 00:41:59,039 Speaker 2: And I think that's fair. 722 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,840 Speaker 1: I guess that's the question A lot of us have 723 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,559 as well, is why are they counted? And I know 724 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:13,440 that the left goes into you know, absolute applectic seizures 725 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,159 when you talk about these sorts of like how can 726 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,880 you not pay for illegal immigrants who are here? But 727 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,400 that's exactly what we're doing. Why are they counted to 728 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:22,920 begin with? 729 00:42:24,519 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 2: So this is a more of a theoretical question. 730 00:42:27,079 --> 00:42:31,599 Speaker 3: But you know, a political district should represent a population 731 00:42:31,679 --> 00:42:36,599 of people who vote one and two. Every district should 732 00:42:36,599 --> 00:42:39,800 be the same in terms of roughly the same political 733 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,199 power contained. 734 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:41,639 Speaker 2: By a citizen. 735 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,880 Speaker 3: So if you have a district that has a million, 736 00:42:45,039 --> 00:42:47,039 or state that has millions, like ten million of legal 737 00:42:47,079 --> 00:42:50,639 aliens versus state that has you know, twenty thousand or whatever, 738 00:42:51,199 --> 00:42:55,760 then this state over here, the average citizens voting power 739 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,440 with ten million illegals is way higher than that of 740 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,159 a state potentially with only twenty twenty thousand. And it's 741 00:43:01,199 --> 00:43:03,760 you know, you have to do this math in terms 742 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,079 of share of the population to share. But either way, 743 00:43:07,639 --> 00:43:12,719 it's a skews population data massively in a way that 744 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,760 makes some citizens voting power stronger than other citizens. And 745 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,159 so at the very least, if you don't account for 746 00:43:19,199 --> 00:43:22,519 them in apportionment, you have to account for them in redistricting. 747 00:43:22,639 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 2: Otherwise you're going to have. 748 00:43:23,519 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 3: Districts that have a lot fewer citizens than other districts, 749 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,960 and the districts the political districts that are fewer citizens 750 00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,239 in them, those citizens will have a lot more voting 751 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,199 power than the districts with fewer illegal aliens and more 752 00:43:38,199 --> 00:43:42,280 citizens in them. And that gets into an equal representation problem, 753 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,840 a guarantee clause one person, one vote problem. It's not 754 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,880 a constitutional system, and it creates an inherent imbalance and 755 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,599 political power. Our entire systems designed not to have that, 756 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:58,199 and so this practice of counting people for political districts 757 00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,960 is constitutionally reverse. There are arguments to say that we 758 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:04,800 should count them, but. 759 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:06,519 Speaker 2: Only so that we know how many there are. 760 00:44:06,559 --> 00:44:10,400 Speaker 3: There are some funding formulas that pay out based on 761 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,280 legal immigration status that you could qualify for, even some 762 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:14,960 for illegals. 763 00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,559 Speaker 2: Should there be no but there are some, and so 764 00:44:17,679 --> 00:44:18,559 funding formulas. 765 00:44:18,599 --> 00:44:20,320 Speaker 3: I get there's an argument there to count them, but 766 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,280 for political districts at the very least, that it should not, 767 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,800 and it's a constitutionally perverse process that needs to be 768 00:44:26,119 --> 00:44:27,840 completely annihilated. 769 00:44:28,039 --> 00:44:28,800 Speaker 2: No doubt about it. 770 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,719 Speaker 1: I know that our listeners will still have a number 771 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,119 of questions. I know that you continue to track this 772 00:44:35,039 --> 00:44:39,440 through the Center for Renewing America. If you wouldn't mind 773 00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,840 give us some contact information so that if folks have 774 00:44:44,039 --> 00:44:48,480 questions about where things stand and perhaps where they are going. 775 00:44:49,199 --> 00:44:52,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, you can find us at America renewing dot com. 776 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 2: My X handle is Wade Wade. 777 00:44:56,079 --> 00:45:01,400 Speaker 3: Miller underscore USMC marine V and I've had that handle 778 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,760 for a while, so you can find us there. We've 779 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:08,880 got organizational social media handles on basically every platform, and 780 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,280 we're going to continue to study this and look into this. 781 00:45:11,679 --> 00:45:14,639 Like I said earlier, we have a study where we 782 00:45:14,679 --> 00:45:17,880 will be conducting a study trying to ascertain what the 783 00:45:18,159 --> 00:45:20,760 impacts of all of these policy reforms would be in 784 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,800 terms of where states would benefit, which states wouldn't benefit, 785 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:30,320 and what does that make the congressional representation look like 786 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,119 from a two party perspective. 787 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:38,679 Speaker 1: This is an elemental issue foundational to the survival of 788 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:45,400 this republic. Quite frankly, these numbers really add up. Where 789 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:49,719 they ultimately do that's the question as we move forward. 790 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,480 Thanks to my guest today, Wayde Miller, Senior advisor at 791 00:45:53,519 --> 00:45:57,719 the Center for Renewing America, talking about the census bureaus 792 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,320 defrauding of the American voter. You've been listening to another 793 00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,440 edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior 794 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,440 Elections correspondent at the Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. 795 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,519 Until then, stay lovers of freedom and anxious for the frame. 796 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:25,440 Speaker 3: I heard the fame voice the reason, and then it 797 00:46:25,599 --> 00:46:31,000 faded away.