WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:01.960 Give yourself a reason to look forward to. Go into 2 00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:05.480 the mailbox each week with a PW Torch newsletter paper copy. 3 00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:10.039 Subscription details at PW torch dot com slash paper Copy. 4 00:00:10.199 --> 00:00:13.000 It's twelve pages every week packed with my TV reports, 5 00:00:13.039 --> 00:00:15.599 along with exclusive features such as my cover story on 6 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:17.879 the top story of the week, our pay per view 7 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:21.640 roundtable reviews from the Torch staff, exclusive feature length columns 8 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:25.719 from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan and 9 00:00:25.879 --> 00:00:29.640 Zach Hadorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news and more. 10 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:33.640 PW torch dot Com slash paper Copy. Take a break 11 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:36.840 from screen time and settle in every week with the 12 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:39.920 megadosup wrestling news and analysis with a Pro Wrestling Torch 13 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:43.240 Newsletter paper Copy edition. In the year twenty twenty two, 14 00:00:43.799 --> 00:00:46.280 you can get a full year of home delivery for 15 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:49.479 just ninety nine dollars, or try us for an eight 16 00:00:49.479 --> 00:01:02.320 week trial subscription. PW torch dot Com Slash Paper Copy. 17 00:01:05.879 --> 00:01:09.920 Now PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wade Keller 18 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:15.959 Pro Wrestling Podcast five years ago. This week on the 19 00:01:15.959 --> 00:01:19.439 flagship Jasonpowfrolprogrestling dot Net joined me and we talked about 20 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:24.400 possible transformative changes in WWB network and pay per views 21 00:01:24.879 --> 00:01:29.879 also drew McIntire's rising stock, aw's quality control issues comparing 22 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:33.480 the star power of AW two NXT. How would NXT 23 00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:38.719 playing in bigger arenas work, fan reaction, complicating Hangman Page's 24 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:43.719 heel turn xfl anticipation, Roh's twenty twenty changes, and much 25 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:46.200 more so. Let's get to it. This originally dropped on 26 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:49.599 February sixth, twenty twenty, and it is today's Wade Keller 27 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:53.400 Pro Wrestling Podcast five years ago Flagship flashback for Wednesday, 28 00:01:53.560 --> 00:02:00.000 February fifth, twenty twenty five. Less than one million Jason 29 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:04.799 less than one million United States subscribers. What are the 30 00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:07.760 odds that that would be paired with the largest amount 31 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:11.840 of revenue for WWE and any financial statement? Those two 32 00:02:11.840 --> 00:02:14.159 things seem to run contrary to each other, and I 33 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:15.879 went to guested it when the network launched that those 34 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:16.800 two things would go together. 35 00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:20.960 But here we are, you know, yeah, like it would 36 00:02:21.039 --> 00:02:23.280 not have been easy to predict, But when you just 37 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:26.520 kind of see the way things have unfolded, I guess 38 00:02:26.599 --> 00:02:30.639 I can't say I'm surprised by this, you know, I 39 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:34.080 do think as much as like the product quality has 40 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:36.759 been an issue for WWE, I do think when it 41 00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:40.319 comes to the network subscriber count, but we also I mean, 42 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:43.360 there's so many factors. I've just heard so many. Like 43 00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:47.280 one popular theory is that, oh, it's NXT being moved 44 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:49.319 to USA network and I don't subscribe to that. 45 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:50.639 I think it's a contributing factor. 46 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:52.639 But I do think it's a little bit of that, 47 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:55.639 a very small amount of that, a little bit of 48 00:02:56.120 --> 00:02:59.400 the product quality, and by and large, just all the 49 00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:03.120 streaming competition that has emerged since WWE Network launched. 50 00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:05.479 I think that's a big part of it. I think 51 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:08.280 not only that, but you'll notice there's TV commercials now. 52 00:03:08.599 --> 00:03:10.919 I know on my credit card apps, it will tell 53 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:13.840 you you have this much money going to subscription services 54 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:16.280 this month, and they're running TV commercials going, let us 55 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:20.080 help you cancel your streaming services you're not using, and 56 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:22.280 I mean they are. You know, that's like a selling 57 00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:24.039 point now, is let us help you manage things that 58 00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:27.639 you're paying for that you're not using. And there's so 59 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:32.240 much content on the air right now, you know, with 60 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:35.639 Ross SmackDown, NXT plus ae W and then all these 61 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:38.280 other satellite thinks for YouTube and other you know, channels 62 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:41.840 with with impact, and so you have that happening and 63 00:03:41.879 --> 00:03:43.919 there's a saturation level being reached with a lot of 64 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:47.719 fans who I it makes sense some people would be like, 65 00:03:47.719 --> 00:03:51.599 you know what, I'm gonna watch aw and I'm going 66 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:55.000 to order their pay per views, you know, two three 67 00:03:55.039 --> 00:03:57.000 times a year when when you know when they're when 68 00:03:57.039 --> 00:03:59.000 they're around, I'll decide if I want to. And that's 69 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:04.000 my one hundred twenty dollars WWE network budget, and it's 70 00:04:04.039 --> 00:04:06.639 by definition, I know people who made that choice, you know, 71 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:09.039 so I know it's more than one. I don't know 72 00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:12.439 if it's twenty thousand or two hundred thousand people who 73 00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:14.080 have made that decision or a mulling it over, But 74 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:17.079 it makes sense that some people would say, this is 75 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:20.199 why I can justify spending on watching wrestling on television. 76 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:22.879 And there's so much WWE, and now I can watch 77 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:25.839 n XT without the network. So I think it's a 78 00:04:25.879 --> 00:04:28.839 combination of factors along with yeah, I talked with my 79 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:30.959 family and we need Disney Plus and we have to 80 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:33.240 get Apple TV now for that series, and so I 81 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:34.839 had to make a cutback, and I watched so much 82 00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:36.600 wrestling was hard for me to justify to my family 83 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:38.319 that I'm watching WOB network. 84 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:38.560 Two. 85 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:40.680 I think it's a confluence of all those. 86 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:42.519 And let's throw in one more. 87 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:45.920 When you look at the overall count, this is not 88 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:49.000 new people just learning about the network and signing up 89 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:50.920 for the first time. This is people who figured out 90 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:54.160 that WWE is desperate to inflate their number and we'll 91 00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:57.160 give them a deal of the lifetime to stick around. 92 00:04:57.639 --> 00:04:57.839 You know. 93 00:04:57.920 --> 00:04:59.800 I guess some of that works into the paid number, 94 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:02.759 but still, I just don't believe that they're finding all 95 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:04.839 these people that are signing up for the first time. 96 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:07.600 I think they're finding deals. 97 00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:10.480 I think they're you know it just I think there's 98 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:13.399 people signing up under different email accounts to take advantage 99 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:16.240 of free offers and things like that. Because I think 100 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:19.759 their conversion rate, which is something that's not talked about 101 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:22.759 because of the obvious it would be I mean, I 102 00:05:22.759 --> 00:05:24.959 think they'd be mocked for all the new people they 103 00:05:24.959 --> 00:05:27.120 have sampling the network that never sign up. 104 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:30.360 Yeah, the numbers are the way that they frame the 105 00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:36.600 numbers and the lack of transparency on how many are 106 00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:40.000 repeat customers and how many are how are they even 107 00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:42.399 tracking how many people sign up with a different email 108 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:45.720 and keep cycling themselves in seasonally. That data just isn't 109 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:48.480 as clear. They aren't mining that, and it doesn't seem 110 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:51.680 like the Financial press is as concerned with that as 111 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:53.639 I would be. I would like to know that, and 112 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:56.519 we're not getting the point in questions that gets that 113 00:05:56.639 --> 00:05:59.959 data extracted. Are you frustrated when you listen to the 114 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:02.279 Q and A with n sick Man and whoever the 115 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:05.639 executives aren't joining him. That has switched this week? Are 116 00:06:05.639 --> 00:06:07.240 you frustrated by the questions that could ask? Are the 117 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:08.079 ones that don't get asked? 118 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:08.720 Oh? 119 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:10.040 Every time? 120 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:12.319 And this time I thought, man, there's so much going on, 121 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:14.839 this is going to be fascinating. And they, I mean, 122 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:18.160 there were some good questions, but my god, are they 123 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:22.319 obsessed with the Indian and Middle East television deals? I 124 00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:26.360 get asking about it. It is a factor, but figure 125 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:29.920 it out. Once they give you their prepared answer, you're 126 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:32.319 not getting more out of them. And they just kept 127 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:35.279 asking in different ways the same question and would get 128 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:39.680 the same answer over and over again. Same with the XFL. Now, 129 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:42.639 I mean, that is something that I think Vince McMahon 130 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:46.879 should be very concerned with the perception that this is 131 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:50.759 not separate from WWE. There was a one caller said, Hey, 132 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:52.759 there's people interested in your stock, but there's a couple 133 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:55.879 of main things that are concerning them, and the XFL 134 00:06:55.959 --> 00:06:57.959 is one of them. And I mean there's only, I guess, 135 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:02.000 so many ways Vince can say that operated separately, but 136 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:05.240 there's a real perception issue out there that people don't 137 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:08.519 buy that, especially when they're seeing Vince McMahon's first press 138 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:11.600 conference was at a WWE studio. There's WWE email account 139 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:14.879 sending out XFL blurbs, and so even if it is 140 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:20.279 completely financially independently separate, there's still reasons for people to 141 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:23.480 be skeptical of that. And I think, you know, he 142 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:26.399 sent out the message as best he could well as 143 00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:29.519 well as he was going to, but it's still there. 144 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:32.360 I don't think, you know, not every person who's afraid 145 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:36.279 of the XFL costing them WWE stock money is listening 146 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:36.839 to this call. 147 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:43.199 It's remarkable how little XFL hype there has been through WWE, 148 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:47.800 television and otherwise. I mean, there's there's connections there. I 149 00:07:47.800 --> 00:07:50.399 can understand people being concerned if you're the head coach 150 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:54.360 of an NFL team, and suddenly you're also directing a 151 00:07:54.399 --> 00:07:58.199 movie during the NFL season. People are going to be like, 152 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:00.240 wait a second, you know, are we supposed to trust 153 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:03.040 your assistance or are you video conference? Like how are 154 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:05.319 you doing both things at once? They can be separate. 155 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:07.000 You can say, well, the NFL team has nothing to 156 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:08.920 do with this blockbuster movie that I'm the director of, 157 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:12.920 but clearly you know your time is split. And Vince 158 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:16.120 has always been a workaholic, so it's not like, oh, 159 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:18.959 I had you know him announced, So I've reduced my 160 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:20.959 hours of b to twenty hours a week the last 161 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:23.120 five years, So I'm just putting in twenty thirty hours 162 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:25.680 of the XFL. But no one will notice. So of 163 00:08:25.720 --> 00:08:28.759 course he can say they're separate entities, but it's him. 164 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:32.440 He sells himself more than ever with the departure of 165 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:35.919 George Barrows from Michelle Wilson as the guy you know 166 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:38.639 who holds us all together. So it's a very reasonable 167 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:40.960 question to ask, and it's not a particularly reasonable answer 168 00:08:41.000 --> 00:08:44.159 to say their separate entities except for the pure financial 169 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:46.679 aspect of it, which is, if the XFL bombs, it 170 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:50.360 won't affect the bottom line of WWE. Finally, it won't 171 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:53.759 affect wly to be financials. But if Vince is WWE 172 00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:57.480 and Vince is involved in the XFL, then that's still 173 00:08:57.480 --> 00:09:00.279 a fair question and I'm not sure he's getting that 174 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:01.919 aspect of people's concern. 175 00:09:02.600 --> 00:09:06.200 He was asked about his workload, I mean, because they 176 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:08.440 didn't really tie in the XFL so much. It's just 177 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:11.039 with Michelle Wilson and George Barrios no longer being with 178 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:14.440 the company, and he went total Vince McMahon mode on it. 179 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:17.840 I have broad shoulders, I can handle a lot, that 180 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:21.159 was his answer. I mean there, yes, they're plugging the 181 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:24.240 idea that they're going to find they're going to recruit 182 00:09:24.279 --> 00:09:26.840 somebody or I guess do something from within, but most 183 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:30.759 likely bring somebody in from the outside. And another only 184 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:33.159 Vince moment was when he asked who wouldn't want to 185 00:09:33.159 --> 00:09:34.960 work for WWE, it's exciting. 186 00:09:36.759 --> 00:09:42.039 What what is the number one surprise from the financials 187 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:43.559 today for you or the conference call? 188 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:46.000 Well, I think the big one is the caret that 189 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:49.440 he dangled in front of everyone, which is WWE network 190 00:09:49.519 --> 00:09:54.000 as we know it may not exist, it may go 191 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:54.919 away entirely. 192 00:09:55.360 --> 00:09:56.080 It could. 193 00:09:56.440 --> 00:09:59.200 I mean, that's the thing is what is this deal? 194 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:01.000 And I mean he's talking about how it could be 195 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:04.279 done in the first quarter, and naturally he's going to 196 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:07.039 be non COMMITALSS to what this is. And Jake Barnett 197 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:08.440 and I spent a lot of time talking about this 198 00:10:08.519 --> 00:10:10.360 and dot neant weekly and just some of the various 199 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:14.720 approaches they could take with this. It could be all 200 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:19.559 of ww network moves to another streaming service, you know. 201 00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:21.200 The one that makes the most sense would seem to 202 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:24.159 be ESPN Plus because they have that deal with UFC. 203 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:26.480 It may not be for the network as we know. 204 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:28.679 It could be for the four major pay per view events, 205 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:30.799 could be for all the pay per view events. So 206 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:32.960 I mean, it really depends on how this is structured. 207 00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:36.320 But I think that it was so interesting to hear 208 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:38.720 him kind of drop that in and then make it, 209 00:10:38.759 --> 00:10:40.159 you know, and if this gets done, I'm it'll be 210 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:42.679 done in the first quarter. I think even though he 211 00:10:42.759 --> 00:10:44.440 tried to make it seem casual, I think that was 212 00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:46.879 very much a planned strategy to kind of distract people, 213 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:49.799 which I don't even in retrospect, I don't even know. 214 00:10:49.799 --> 00:10:50.720 That he needed to do. 215 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:53.600 I mean, there were definitely questions about it, but for 216 00:10:53.639 --> 00:10:57.279 whatever reason the people that call into these financial reports 217 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:01.320 don't ask I mean there's some, but most just go 218 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:03.840 along for the ride, don't ask him too many tough questions. 219 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:08.279 You can support us on Patreon and get these shows 220 00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:11.080 with ads and plugs, remove the weight Keller Prossing podcast, 221 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:14.000 Weight Keller Prossing post shows and the PW Torch daily 222 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:17.039 cast throughout the week with ads and plugs remove, plus 223 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:20.519 a few bonus VIP shows throughout the month for just 224 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:22.559 four dollars and ninety nine cents a month. Check it 225 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:27.639 out patreon dot com slash PW torch vip. That's Patreon 226 00:11:27.879 --> 00:11:30.559 dot com slash PW torch vip and you can also 227 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:34.240 upgrade to other tiers and receive even more benefits through Patreon. 228 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:40.159 The idea that he gets asked about selling advertising on 229 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:41.759 the network, and he's like, well, you know, if there 230 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:45.759 is a network, I mean it's like he's he's putting 231 00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:49.159 stuff out there, and I mean, are you getting the 232 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:51.679 sense at all that they're waving the white flag on 233 00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:54.399 the network being the right approach for them to take 234 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:57.200 and they really are looking at moving to another streaming 235 00:11:57.240 --> 00:11:59.440 service or as was brought up, just splitting off the 236 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:02.639 pay per view and finding a way to have quote 237 00:12:02.679 --> 00:12:04.480 the best of both worlds. Maybe we can still sell 238 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:08.200 WrestleMania in summer Slam and Survivor series the way AW 239 00:12:08.440 --> 00:12:11.679 and USC do, but also have a base of subscribers 240 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:14.279 it would drop. Who are who want all this? I 241 00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:18.320 guess you know, shoulder content and secondary content including say 242 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:23.240 NXT takeovers. Or is this just the distraction to get 243 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:25.360 the financial world going. Oh, they got a lot of 244 00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:28.399 things that could change things for the better. And even 245 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:30.480 though Wilson and Burials are gone, and even though network 246 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:32.519 numbers are gone, man, they never stop thinking and they're 247 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.039 nimble and they're looking at all options and it's more 248 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:36.320 of a distraction than a reality. 249 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:40.600 I don't think it's a distraction in this case, you know, 250 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:45.559 because it's just the confidence that he spoke with about this. 251 00:12:46.360 --> 00:12:49.240 It really does seem like something is cooking here. And 252 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:51.399 I do wonder if it plays into the departures of 253 00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:53.840 Wilson in Barrios, if they disagreed with this approach, and 254 00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:56.840 that is where the divide comes into play. Perhaps even 255 00:12:57.000 --> 00:12:59.000 you know that we don't know, but there's been a 256 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:02.440 lot of speculation that some of the executive bonuses are 257 00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:06.639 tied into networks and the time of viewer consumption of 258 00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:07.879 the network and that sort of thing. 259 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:11.120 And I don't know if that's the case, but if it. 260 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:14.240 Is and the network's going away, you know, I could 261 00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:17.159 see that being a source of frustration for them. 262 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:20.559 But yeah, I do think there is something here. 263 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:23.320 I don't think this is just you know, dangling the 264 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:25.000 carrot and hoping it distracts people. 265 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:26.679 I think there's something going on. 266 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:30.600 And I think if you look at UFC's deal with 267 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:35.159 ESPN plus, I mean their pay per view subscriber or 268 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:37.960 you know, just their pay per view by count way down. 269 00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:41.960 But they don't have to care. They make their money anyway. 270 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:43.679 Because of the way the deal was structured. They make 271 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:45.919 more money than they did before when their pay per 272 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:47.360 view numbers were actually strong. 273 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:51.879 WW has been trying so hard for years now, obviously 274 00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:54.080 to get people in the door, and they had very 275 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:57.919 high they have very high hopes. They had numbers that 276 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:00.120 you know, if you check five plus years ago, I 277 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:03.759 were going these are unrealistic. You know, these lapsed fans 278 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:05.879 are not going to come rushing back to spend ten 279 00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:09.039 dollars a month every month to watch a few of 280 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:13.200 their favorite wrestling shows and a product with a product 281 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:16.720 that was pretty cold at that point. Otherwise, the idea 282 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:19.960 that we're sitting here now talking about the possibility of 283 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:24.759 them completely shifting strategies is is fascinating. The fact that 284 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:27.000 when pressed, they won't say what the profitability of the 285 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:29.600 network is, although there's a lot of accounting tricks. How 286 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:33.080 profitable was the network? Well, are you counting the talent 287 00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:36.440 the wrestler pay for the events or not? Or is 288 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.879 that considered a separate how there's base pay for wrestlers 289 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:41.600 that they get, you know, the downsides they get that 290 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:44.600 no matter what. Then they get a bonus check. Is 291 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:46.919 that bonus check based off the gate you know, the 292 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:51.240 ticket sales for the for WrestleMania or network subs If so, 293 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:53.759 is it weighted towards the fact that most people who 294 00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:57.039 get the network in February, March, April and may have 295 00:14:57.159 --> 00:14:59.600 it almost you know, they have it because they want 296 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:02.080 wrestle Ma. So do you weigh that more heavily or 297 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:03.879 do you go nope, it's just three hours out of 298 00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:07.360 a thousand hours they were a subscriber. And so like 299 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:12.519 there's so many ways to wiggle the numbers. It's not 300 00:15:12.559 --> 00:15:14.559 an honest question, it's not a fair and there's no 301 00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:18.080 way to fairly and honestly and accurately answer how profitable 302 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:19.559 is a network? And Riddick said, well, we don't give 303 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:22.639 that information out, Well, how can you because if you did, 304 00:15:23.240 --> 00:15:26.000 you would really need to show the details to get 305 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:29.440 people to understand what that really means. And so we 306 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:32.600 don't really know how profitable the network is. But w 307 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:35.440 B shown with Saudi Arabia with Fox and then USA 308 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:39.399 with the renewal. They're looking for big scores. So if 309 00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:41.799 there is a streaming service out there that says, well, 310 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:43.840 you know, let's say Netflix feels vulnerable. They lose a 311 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:47.960 lot of their library to these other streaming services. Disney especially, 312 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:51.679 they are creating their own original movies and original series. 313 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:54.840 But they're like, man, could we add just you know, 314 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:57.480 could we add a million people for X amount of money? 315 00:15:57.559 --> 00:16:00.240 And or do we already have those people? And if 316 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:02.759 we pay a lot for Dotamine network, we're just going 317 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:05.039 to be giving people bonus content who already subscribing. And 318 00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:07.120 I don't know the math on that. Is it more 319 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:12.279 likely a sports based product like ESPN that then thinks, well, 320 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:14.320 if we get all the rest and fans in maybe 321 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:16.159 they're more likely to buy UOC pay per views, and 322 00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:18.799 then ESPN can charge that premiere tier like they do 323 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:21.600 for UFC for pay per views. There's so many ways 324 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.639 this could shake out. I don't sense. 325 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:26.080 I don't know. 326 00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:27.679 I mean, Vince made it sound like, well, if the 327 00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:29.679 things that we have in the works come through, it's 328 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:32.320 going to be transformative, and he used that word, but 329 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:35.600 I didn't get a sense of, really, what do you 330 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:36.960 think he's bluffing or do you think he has a 331 00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:39.440 very specific idea of a deal that might happen. 332 00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:42.440 No, when he used like, if he was just speaking 333 00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:45.320 generally about this possibility, then I might think he's bluffing. 334 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:47.039 But when he says this, could you know if it's 335 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:49.519 going to happen, it can go down in the first quarter. 336 00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:53.600 I think something's happening. I really do. And Netflix is one. 337 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:56.000 I know you're just giving an example, but yeah, I 338 00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:57.639 don't know how much of it they would be in 339 00:16:57.679 --> 00:16:59.759 the game because they don't have any type of live 340 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:02.600 opponent to what they do right now, and I haven't 341 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:05.079 I don't follow it closely, but I haven't seen anything 342 00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:07.240 that makes me think that they're moving in that direction, 343 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:12.319 But I think I believe Amazon it does have that capability, 344 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:14.440 and I know they've been players for like the NFL 345 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:17.160 package and things like that, so you know, I guess 346 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:20.079 we could add them to the potential mix of you know, 347 00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:23.920 just I guess perspective buyers of the network or whoever 348 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:24.759 you want to label this. 349 00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:28.160 Yeah, no, it's it's fascinating. I mean, I think more 350 00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:31.759 so than we anticipated. Again, it's a little bit of 351 00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:35.039 a distraction from Wilson and Barrios being gone, did you 352 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:37.519 I mean, Vincent Man just kind of framed it as 353 00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:41.960 because it's funny, like a week ago when I was 354 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:45.799 talking about the departures of Wilson and Baris and in 355 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:47.480 the cover story too, I was like, well, you know, 356 00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:49.000 I mean, there's not a lot left for them to do. 357 00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:50.920 You know, they've got their network revenue coming in, They're 358 00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:54.880 Saudi Arabia money coming in, their major TV deals. House 359 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:58.200 shields are sort of you know, not what they once were, obviously, 360 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:00.319 but now it's just sort of, you know, where they 361 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:01.960 need to improve is on the creative side. They need 362 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:04.319 to create stars, make the product better, and figure out 363 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:08.960 a way to navigate oversaturation and figure out where there 364 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:11.599 should be synergy and where there should have shouldn't be 365 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:13.079 in all that in terms of all the different ways 366 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:16.359 they distribute their their content through the three major US brands. 367 00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:20.000 But now a week later, it does seem as if 368 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:25.160 Baris and Wilson might have had a very different idea 369 00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:28.480 that there might be these new frontiers or major changes 370 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:31.440 that there was infighting over, and that might have been 371 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:33.759 going on for a while, and if they were advising 372 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:37.000 for or against something, and Vince was, you know, on 373 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:39.759 the opposite side. It does seem like WWE and six 374 00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:41.759 months or a year could be actually in quite a 375 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:44.680 different place in terms of their business setup. And and 376 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:47.559 they're actually the next people who come in as president 377 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:50.759 or coot presidents. They might end up being part of, 378 00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:54.559 as Vince said, a transformative era of WWE business. 379 00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:55.640 Yeah, they could. 380 00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:57.720 I mean when they when the it was first announced, 381 00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:02.400 I thought, Man, is this Vince throwing them under the 382 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:05.119 bus for a bad report or just a bad outlook 383 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:09.559 not reaching those television deals that kept coming up today 384 00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:13.640 in the Middle East, in India. But the more I 385 00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:15.359 thought about, it's like, if you're going to do if 386 00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:17.960 you're gonna throw somebody under the boss, you throw one 387 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:20.960 of them under the bus. You know, you pick between 388 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:23.240 the two and then you just held the hell out 389 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:25.160 of the other one. I don't think you would just 390 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:28.319 get rid of both of them. I thought Michelle Wilson 391 00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:31.400 was as powerful as anybody in that company, just because 392 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:33.400 of some of the battles that she's won, you know, 393 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:36.799 the power struggles that she's won, and know, just with 394 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:39.839 female empowerment and everything. I thought, if anyone was gonna go, 395 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:43.440 probably Barrios and Michelle would stick around. But to see 396 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:48.519 both of them go, that really surprised me. 397 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:51.519 Me an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts, 398 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:54.440 will come join me Alan four l Over in the 399 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:58.599 Progress Paradise at pedotorch VIP as we ask on the 400 00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:01.279 bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the 401 00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:04.240 great matches and shows from around the world, be it 402 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:07.680 the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. 403 00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:08.599 There's always a. 404 00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:11.319 Place for restlings past in the Paradise too, and we've 405 00:20:11.319 --> 00:20:14.119 done fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger 406 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:18.640 series celebrating the glorious career of Jusian Thunderliger and our 407 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:21.000 eye was there when shows where our guests will join 408 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.400 me to talk about a classic bout that they were 409 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:26.799 in attendance for. 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See 416 00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:50.680 you in the Paradise. 417 00:20:54.359 --> 00:21:00.000 So what looking at the landscape, what do you think 418 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.599 I think a new the legacy of the of the 419 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:05.759 new executives are going to be or do you sense 420 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:10.319 and again it's a sense, it's not hard information that 421 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:12.680 Vince just sort of wants more control right now and 422 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:16.000 the people who come in to replace the departures will 423 00:21:16.039 --> 00:21:18.960 have less power. Do you think that Vince is looking 424 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:20.880 for that person to kind of well he puts up 425 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:24.240 a strong front in terms of his leadership and his ideas, 426 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:26.319 that he's actually looking for somebody who agrees with him 427 00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:29.240 on strategy but will take will make big changes. 428 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:33.480 I get just I think it's a Vince power thing, 429 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:38.200 because I this isn't we're promoting Frank Riddick, who's the 430 00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:41.160 interim person handling Wilson Embarius's duties. 431 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:43.039 By the sounds of it, I mean. 432 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:47.839 That's his title is interroim, and it's not he and 433 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:51.680 I share this vision and therefore I'm promoting him into 434 00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:55.079 this position. They're looking for outsiders, you know. I mean, 435 00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:57.880 is there a chance the interim title is taken away? 436 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:00.039 I guess, but it doesn't seem to be something that 437 00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:03.400 was hinted at today. Didn't seem to be like they're 438 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:09.559 strongly considering. They weren't counting anyone that's already under WWE employment. 439 00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:13.880 It really did sound like they're aggressively looking outside the company. 440 00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:17.400 And when you do that, I mean, that tells me that, yeah, 441 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:19.000 he's going to want somebody that's going to come in 442 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:22.640 and execute his vision. I think this was a power struggle. 443 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:25.000 I mean, I don't know it, but it's Vince. I 444 00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:26.640 wouldn't be surprised to be used as the lingo that 445 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:28.359 he uses in creative It is a hill you want 446 00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:30.680 to die on, And they said, yes, we. 447 00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:34.359 Looking at w STOCK today. There's not a sense that 448 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:36.640 people are impressed with what they're hearing. Despite the idea 449 00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:39.200 of a major deal to sell their pay per views 450 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:42.319 or their network content. They're done about eight percent as recording, 451 00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:45.839 this to under forty five dollars. And when you look 452 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:49.279 at where they were a week ago on January thirtyeth 453 00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:52.720 through at sixty two dollars. This if the strategy here, 454 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:54.960 Evin's going aggressively, wo might announce something in the first 455 00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:59.880 quarter was meant to boost stock prices, that is not happening. 456 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:02.960 I mean CNN dot com headline. Things keep getting worse 457 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:10.480 for WWE deadline, WWE earnings woes, stock drop overshadow return 458 00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:14.640 of Vince McMahon's XFL the wraps you know, talks about 459 00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:16.519 the b in talks to sell pay per view rights 460 00:23:16.559 --> 00:23:21.519 to another major quote unquote streaming service, and at New 461 00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:25.880 York posts be stock tanks after revenues, mis expectations, on 462 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:28.079 and on. I mean the headlines out there when you 463 00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:30.480 do a search of keywords right now online for all, 464 00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:34.920 for the industry reaction to this, to the data drop 465 00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:37.920 today on the press conference, it's it's it didn't work. 466 00:23:37.960 --> 00:23:39.839 If the strategy was, let's hit these bull points, so 467 00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:41.839 we see that a lot. I mean, nobody asks meinsick 468 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:44.079 man how's that reinventing a house shills coming that you 469 00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:46.119 talked about six monthes ago. You know, there isn't that 470 00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:48.720 follow up. But at the same time they're looking at 471 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:51.079 the hard numbers and then they're hearing if you pay 472 00:23:51.079 --> 00:23:53.480 attention to things, Vince says, that don't actually come to 473 00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:56.880 fruition you you have to go show me. I'm not 474 00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:58.880 going to buy stock based on this idea that you're 475 00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:02.799 blowing up. Are you're touting something that might happen, that 476 00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:05.440 might be good and it also might come across as 477 00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:07.680 again them waving the white flag a little bit on 478 00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:10.480 those really high hopes upon which some of the stock 479 00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:12.400 price was based that they can grow to to you 480 00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:15.359 network as they expand internationally and just reach new people. 481 00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:19.279 What's left after this, and I know you talked about 482 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:20.920 that a little bit with Wilson and Barrios and what 483 00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:23.799 would be left for them. But if they do indeed 484 00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:27.839 sell off the network and transform that in some way, okay, 485 00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:30.240 it's just a struggle to get the next television deal. 486 00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:32.799 I mean, they had their deal locked in with Saudi 487 00:24:32.839 --> 00:24:34.839 Arabia for a while. They're sat on TV for a 488 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:35.440 little while. 489 00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:39.720 Yeah, but what else? What is there. I don't even know. 490 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:43.880 Well, I think it comes back to Bruce Mitchell and 491 00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:45.400 I talked about this a few days ago on the 492 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:49.599 Bruce Mitchel Audie Show, and they need to just find 493 00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:52.480 a way to do better creative, you know, like actually 494 00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:57.119 create stars and get people excited about the actual product. 495 00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:59.720 And you know when you watch SmackDown, like I don't 496 00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:02.160 actually dread Smacked On. I think some people who like 497 00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:04.359 watch Smacked On're like, oh god, you know I'm gonna slog. 498 00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:05.279 Through this there. 499 00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:07.680 Yeah, well yeah, I mean there are weeks. But but 500 00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:10.359 I I, you know, I like, I enjoy it. It's 501 00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:12.799 it's sort of low stress, you know, it's just it's 502 00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:17.880 Bruce Pritchard Vince McMahon sports entertainment with their quote larger 503 00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:21.039 than the life characters kind of doing WWE sports entertainment. 504 00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:23.599 It's not it doesn't really challenge me. But there's enough 505 00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:26.200 people that I, you know, think are doing good work 506 00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:27.839 in the ring and good work on the mic. It's 507 00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:30.000 it's fine, but I don't get really like it doesn't 508 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:31.880 I don't get really excited going into the weekend about 509 00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:34.599 wo B. But and some shows are kind of blah, 510 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:37.400 but like that's not enough, you know what I mean, Like, 511 00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:40.720 there's not this sense. So my my I'm setting up 512 00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:44.200 the foundation of my baseline is I don't hate smacked 513 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:45.400 on right now. And I know some people like, oh, 514 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:47.680 I fee that's so boring, blah blah blah, Baron Corbyn, this, 515 00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:53.200 King Corbyn that, but it is not going to inspire 516 00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:57.480 people except for you know, kids who are discovering WWE 517 00:25:57.519 --> 00:25:59.680 and want to go and see their those here, those 518 00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:02.720 super stars in person. It's not an inspiring product. I 519 00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:04.839 think Raw is better, I think NXT is better, but 520 00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:08.799 there isn't that breakout star. And I don't think Drew McIntyre, 521 00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:10.799 as much as I'm in favor of the Pushy's getting, 522 00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:12.319 is going to be to use the word of that 523 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:16.480 transformative babyface for them. I think he's a good choice 524 00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:19.200 to be their lead babyface and has a chance to 525 00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:21.440 be really good in that position, but he's not gonna 526 00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:24.359 be transformative. So to me, what's left and I don't 527 00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:28.799 is focusing on that. And it's people in the financial 528 00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:30.480 world who are part of these quarterly calls that they 529 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.640 don't watch the show. They don't have any sense of 530 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:36.839 whether Drew McIntyre has a chance to be a breakout 531 00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:39.720 star or who an NXT might be called up there. 532 00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:41.400 They don't even know who Keith Lee is and couldn't 533 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:43.759 pick him out of a lineup. That's what we do. 534 00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:48.880 But the next thing for them is to either with 535 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:51.359 a breakout star or just like RAW. I think the 536 00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:53.279 last couple of months just piece by piece put out 537 00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:57.000 better shows and inch their way up. But wbe's and 538 00:26:57.079 --> 00:26:59.400 Vinc mc mann is in the business of that rush 539 00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:03.400 from the big deal, yes, and that takes away from 540 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:06.119 the week by week improvement and tending to the product. 541 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:08.599 I don't think Vince is bored by the wrestling, but 542 00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:11.000 I don't think he thinks that will make a big 543 00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:14.799 enough difference because it used to be house showgates. Oh 544 00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:17.440 did we do a million dollars at MSG? Oh no, 545 00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:18.839 we did eight and ninety. What are we gonna do 546 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:21.839 to fix that for next time? Now they're making billions 547 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:24.759 of dollars. That stuff a small change, but you eventually 548 00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:28.880 pay the price for not being inspired and refreshing that 549 00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:31.799 aspect of your business. And I think there's a sense 550 00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:34.599 of other than on, you know, like Ron nxta booker's 551 00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:36.359 you know, it seems like who are somewhat inspired to 552 00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:39.200 trying your things. But SmackDown is on Fox, and I 553 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:42.440 think that the air came out at WWE's image to 554 00:27:42.480 --> 00:27:45.240 a certain degree with how sort of mediocre they're doing 555 00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:47.119 on Fox. And there's not buzz about the show. 556 00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:50.799 Yeah it's I mean, I don't dread it. There was 557 00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:52.359 probably the last time I was ONIE. But I was 558 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:55.640 in that mode, right, I really was. It's gotten a little. 559 00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:57.960 It's palatable. I guess it's the best word I can 560 00:27:58.079 --> 00:27:59.359 use to describe SmackDown. 561 00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:01.680 Yep. But yeah, I mean, this is Fox. 562 00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:05.359 This is the one we thought, well, Fox themselves, they 563 00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:07.119 had all these great ideas for what they were going 564 00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:09.559 to do for WWE, and it was go ahead, please 565 00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:12.440 make this more sports like you know whatever. Our everyone's different, 566 00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:16.720 everyone has a different vision for improvement. It hasn't changed. 567 00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:20.400 It's just okay, there's graphics in an ac DC song. 568 00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:24.119 They have two commentators now instead of three. This is 569 00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:28.400 the same product and maybe even worse because this is 570 00:28:28.640 --> 00:28:31.519 you know, I suspect strongly Bruce Pritchard writing for Vince 571 00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:34.680 Bookman or Vince Bmocmann writing for himself. That's what we're 572 00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:36.759 getting on this show and that doesn't cut it in 573 00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:39.279 twenty twenty anymore. It hasn't cut it in a few 574 00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:42.759 years now. Vince has gone down the hill dramatically, which 575 00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:46.599 is what's so funny about these quarterly conference calls. The 576 00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:50.759 financial people seem to think like he's the solution to everything, 577 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.799 and they don't realize, No, he's the real problem here. 578 00:28:56.079 --> 00:28:58.160 Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next 579 00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:00.880 level with a VIP membership. Get you like this the 580 00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:03.920 way Keller Prosing Podcast, Weykeller Prosing post show, and the 581 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:07.680 pw Torch daily casts on our pw Torch VIP podcast 582 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:10.640 feed with ads and plugs removed from the shows for 583 00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:14.400 a streamlined listening experience. And also hear the VIP exclusive 584 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:16.640 shows that I host with Rich Fan and Todd Martin, 585 00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:18.799 Everything with Rich Fan and The Fix with Todd Martin 586 00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:22.240 signature VIP series that you're missing out without a VIP membership. 587 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:24.920 So go VIP here in twenty twenty two and enjoy 588 00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:28.119 all the benefits, all the bonus content and the ad 589 00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:32.400 free listening experience. Pw torch dot com slash go vip. 590 00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:40.279 All right, we're deeping the show here, but let's set 591 00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:43.359 the table introduce ourselves. This is the Way Keller Pro 592 00:29:43.400 --> 00:29:47.319 Wrestling Podcast for Thursday, February six, twenty twenty. I'm Way Keller, 593 00:29:47.319 --> 00:29:50.799 host of the program, joined by Jason Powell from Pro 594 00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:56.039 Wrestling dot Net. Jason a twenty plus your veteran reporter 595 00:29:56.480 --> 00:29:59.920 and analyst covering professional wrestling runs. Progressing dot Net also 596 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:05.119 hosts the Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. Jason, list off the 597 00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:07.640 last five or six guests you've had on that on 598 00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:09.319 your on your free weekly podcast. 599 00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:12.720 Oh my gosh, you're asking me to think, Yeah, that's incredible. 600 00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:17.119 It's this week. Court Valuer was the week before. Who 601 00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:20.519 did I have on prior to the NWA pay per 602 00:30:20.599 --> 00:30:24.920 viewers Alison K Yeah, the week before that. Oh my gosh, 603 00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:29.319 Ricky Starks, I believe, And I'm neither missing somebody in 604 00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:31.440 between or I don't remember five weeks back. 605 00:30:31.480 --> 00:30:32.880 I'm impressed I made it this far back. 606 00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:35.039 To be honest, I was I should. I kind of 607 00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:36.640 knew I was putting on the spot when I did that. 608 00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:39.519 My point is, you've got a really cool, diverse mix 609 00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:43.319 of different people in different roles in wrestling on your 610 00:30:43.319 --> 00:30:46.160 show on a weekly basis, so people should check it out. 611 00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:48.000 If they have it yet. Plus you talk all kinds 612 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:48.960 of current events too. 613 00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:50.240 You got it. 614 00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:53.279 Yeah, absolutely, And so you mentioned twenty years. So yes, 615 00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:56.519 I'm old, but I'll never be as old as Bruce Mitchel. 616 00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:57.799 That's the important thing to remember. 617 00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:02.559 No, that is that is I believe how how time works. 618 00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:05.720 So you are correct? All right? Well, anything else from 619 00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:07.680 w Financials before we kind of turn the page with 620 00:31:07.720 --> 00:31:08.440 some other stuff here. 621 00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:10.960 Oh, I'm trying to think if anything else really did 622 00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:11.519 jump out. 623 00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:14.160 It's uh, you know, having talked about it with Jake 624 00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:16.880 now it's it's starting to turn into a blur. 625 00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:19.119 But I think we hit kind of the key points 626 00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:21.400 on this. Yeah. 627 00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:23.920 Again, I think it just comes down to the structure, 628 00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:26.640 if they do indeed move the network, or it's just 629 00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:30.200 you know, it's transformative whatever. You know. However, this changes things, 630 00:31:31.240 --> 00:31:34.160 you know, I think naturally think there's going to be 631 00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:37.559 some concern with the consumer, you know, and that's the 632 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:39.559 thing that Wall Street doesn't give a damn about. And 633 00:31:40.000 --> 00:31:42.160 I really wonder if Vince McMahon gives a damn about. 634 00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:45.240 I think there's there's real potential for backlash year Wade, 635 00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:49.000 you know, not just the Roman reigns one I'm canceling 636 00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:52.720 my subscription and then you know, three people do or something. 637 00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:56.880 I think real potential backlash from people bothered by this 638 00:31:57.079 --> 00:31:58.880 that you know, hey, you've been selling me on nine 639 00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:02.160 ninety nine for how long? That's what your product is 640 00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:04.240 worth to me now, but you want me to pay 641 00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:08.160 how much for WrestleMania this year. We don't know if 642 00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.359 that's what's going to happen, but it wouldn't be surprising 643 00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:13.599 if that's the approach they're going to take. If it 644 00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:15.839 is like UFC, Okay, you got to sign up for 645 00:32:16.039 --> 00:32:19.400 ESPN Plus and then they'll deduct that amount from your 646 00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:21.720 pay per view purchase. But I mean, that's basically what 647 00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:24.359 this is. But it's not traditional pay per view either. 648 00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:28.759 So you're asking people who in some cases to struggle 649 00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:31.680 to figure out how WWE Network ended up functioning, to 650 00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:35.960 now figure out how ESPN or whoever does theirs. I mean, 651 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:39.200 so I think there's I mean, but the thing, if 652 00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:43.559 it's structured like the UFC ESPN Plus deal, toywe is 653 00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:45.960 not going to have to care because they're going to 654 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:49.920 have their their set money anyway. And then we get 655 00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:51.640 back into something you and I spent a lot of 656 00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:55.400 time kind of shooting down, which is the notion that, oh, 657 00:32:55.400 --> 00:32:57.400 they have the network and so they have their built. 658 00:32:57.200 --> 00:32:59.319 In money, they're not going to care. No. 659 00:32:59.319 --> 00:33:02.000 Now when that could come into play If the deal 660 00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:06.119 is structured like UFCS, if it's incentive based, great, But 661 00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:08.400 if it's here's a boatload of money for the next 662 00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:10.920 five years of your pay per view, Okay, it's gonna 663 00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:13.039 work like TV where they're gonna worry about it to 664 00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:15.720 some extent, but it's they're not living and dying off 665 00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:17.720 of each one and trying to move that network number, 666 00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:21.279 subscription number up. It's just, you know, okay, we can 667 00:33:21.319 --> 00:33:23.480 get through this show and fulfill our obligation. 668 00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:26.839 They're so far removed from oh we didn't we didn't 669 00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:29.200 get this much at MSG this month. What can we 670 00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:31.839 what angle can we run or who should we rotate 671 00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:33.880 into a main evan spot in order to help business? 672 00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:37.440 But that is at the core what drives business, not 673 00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:41.960 the model, not a tier, not a slight price change, 674 00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:45.599 not a different way of pitching something. It's about getting 675 00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:49.799 people to want to see a wrestler beat another wrestler 676 00:33:50.119 --> 00:33:53.359 in a match that they have created a scenario that 677 00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:56.119 in fans' minds. That matters in terms of a story 678 00:33:56.119 --> 00:33:58.440 that they're invested in, and the more removed they get 679 00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:01.960 from that, the more all this other stuff matters less. 680 00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:06.559 Now it matters if they can strike a transformative deal 681 00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.679 where their revenue goes up. That's fine. But that's Vince 682 00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:12.199 mcmhnon playing the Wall Street game, the profits game, the 683 00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:15.719 balance sheet game. He's not a wrestling promoter anymore. He's 684 00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:20.880 just playing around with delivery methods and revenue deals. And 685 00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:24.480 that's always been part of Vince's business, you know, I 686 00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:27.960 mean trying to you know, run buildings and not let 687 00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:31.119 others in buildings and buy TV spots and major markets 688 00:34:31.159 --> 00:34:33.599 when he expanded. I mean, he's always been a bit 689 00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:37.079 on the business side, very aggressive. This isn't like something new, 690 00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:41.920 but it was always connected so much to TV ratings, 691 00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:44.880 ticket sales, pay per view buys, and you just hear 692 00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:48.679 a disconnect now and I think that's to me, that's 693 00:34:48.719 --> 00:34:52.519 still the ultimate concern. You know, with the departure Barrows 694 00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:56.199 and Wilson matters a lot, but in one respect, it 695 00:34:56.239 --> 00:35:02.639 doesn't matter at all for arrest fan because what a 696 00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:05.480 wrestling fan cares about. Yes, I mean, I know the 697 00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:07.760 ESPN Plus to watch uc pay per view. My head 698 00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:09.440 hurt the first time I tried to figure out how 699 00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:11.000 to do it. And I'm pretty tech savvy. I'm the 700 00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:13.760 one who people go to to figure stuff like this out. 701 00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:16.119 And I was like, oh God, I want to watch 702 00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:17.360 this pay per view, but oh, what do I have 703 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:19.360 to do now? And I'm like, go side of this 704 00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:20.960 and then this gets deducted from that, and then I 705 00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:22.400 have to log in and then do this, and then 706 00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:24.599 I have to download an app. Is does my Samsung 707 00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:26.079 TV have that app? Or do I have to Who 708 00:35:26.119 --> 00:35:29.039 got an Apple TV? It was just like a mess, 709 00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:33.400 you know, Like so that's not serving the fans if 710 00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:37.280 there's that complication. But in the end, fans are going 711 00:35:37.320 --> 00:35:39.199 to find a way to watch a match or an 712 00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:42.400 event they want to watch. They will overcome that hurdle 713 00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:44.920 if they're motivated. But if they're not, I'm like, god, 714 00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:47.559 screw it. I'm just gonna put on you know, AW 715 00:35:47.559 --> 00:35:51.039 and the DVR, go watch NWA Power on my laptop 716 00:35:52.039 --> 00:35:54.519 And so some of that matters, But in the end, 717 00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:58.000 you need fans to want the product for it to work. 718 00:35:58.039 --> 00:36:02.800 And what we're talking about isn't probably of interest to 719 00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:04.800 a lot of people listening to the show, They're just like, 720 00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:06.440 I just want to I just want wrestlers. I want 721 00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:08.159 to I just want to be invested in good matches 722 00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:10.400 with wrestlers I care about, and all this other stuff 723 00:36:10.400 --> 00:36:12.920 doesn't matter. And I just don't sense that there's that 724 00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:17.679 level of introspection publicly by Vincent Mann or anyone in WWE. 725 00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:19.519 And maybe, I mean maybe that's where they spend ninety 726 00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:20.960 percent of their time behind the scenes, and it just 727 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:23.760 doesn't come up in these things. And obviously a decision 728 00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:26.519 to turned room Ac and tire Babyface and have them 729 00:36:26.679 --> 00:36:29.639 win the rumble, and the creative idea pro or con 730 00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:32.360 of having Lesnar enter first and doing the storyline with him, 731 00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:35.800 they're obviously still doing creative things on a week to 732 00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:40.800 week basis. But I just don't sense that they realize 733 00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:44.920 that's where that has to be, that has to be fixed, 734 00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:47.719 and that's what needs to be transformative for all these 735 00:36:47.719 --> 00:36:51.159 other things to matter, other than if you're just you know, 736 00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:54.440 playing a game of moving, moving the pieces around in 737 00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:56.119 terms of how you distribute the product and the deals 738 00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:57.559 you sign, and I get that's the game. There, I 739 00:36:57.599 --> 00:36:59.840 now is a public good traded company. That's what excites 740 00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:02.519 in Man and his people, and they quote need to 741 00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:04.639 do it because he judges himself on stock price now 742 00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:06.719 more than TV ratings or ticket sales. 743 00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:15.840 In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and 744 00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:19.280 ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch Vip 745 00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:23.559 podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly 746 00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:26.119 look at this page in NXT's early history. 747 00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:30.239 Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks 748 00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:33.039 NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to 749 00:37:33.079 --> 00:37:35.800 the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they 750 00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:40.079 did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch Vip members. 751 00:37:43.639 --> 00:37:45.639 Yeah, I mean all of that is in play. 752 00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:47.880 I want to back up the you know, two fans 753 00:37:48.039 --> 00:37:49.679 who just you know, want to think more about the 754 00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:52.199 booking or what was a good match. They're going to 755 00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:55.199 care if they're suddenly asked to go from paying nine 756 00:37:55.239 --> 00:37:57.639 to ninety nine to paying you know, fifty bucks for 757 00:37:57.639 --> 00:37:59.719 a pay per view for WRESTLEMANNI or whatever that dollar 758 00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:04.400 fit would be. And that's where I think WWE there 759 00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:07.679 could be some real backlash over that, not that you know, 760 00:38:07.719 --> 00:38:09.719 wrestling fins are still gonna watch wrestling, doesn't mean they're 761 00:38:09.719 --> 00:38:11.440 not gonna watch Ron SmackDown. But are they going to 762 00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:14.239 be quick to pay fifty bucks or whatever that price 763 00:38:14.239 --> 00:38:15.199 would be for wrestling? 764 00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:17.679 Nannia, Do they just decide screw it? 765 00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:20.280 No, I can watch all these other all these other 766 00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:23.800 programs that are available to me for free. Things have 767 00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:26.519 changed a lot since WWE's pay per view days, and 768 00:38:26.840 --> 00:38:29.159 there's just so much more competition out there just in 769 00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:31.679 the wrestling genre alone that I think, you know, some 770 00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:34.440 people are going to make that decision to say, ah, whatever, 771 00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:38.159 I'll follow along with way Keller's report or Jason Powell's report. 772 00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:39.920 I don't need to see this, screw them. 773 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:42.719 Or I'll find a way to find it online and 774 00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:43.119 some other o. 775 00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:44.639 There is that too, Yeah, And I. 776 00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:46.039 Mean if the price gets high enough, I mean, if 777 00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:48.119 they charged a million dollars for a pay per view, 778 00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:50.239 I would resort to that, you know what I mean, 779 00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:52.760 Like I would have to, you know, practically speaking, and 780 00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:55.039 if you reduce it down there are some people who 781 00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:57.119 practically speaking can have four to ten bucks a month. 782 00:38:57.400 --> 00:39:00.119 They can't. They'll get kicked out of the house. If 783 00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:03.320 there's a sixty five dollars bill on cable for a 784 00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:06.119 wrestling pay per view, And so I don't know where 785 00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:08.840 they would be right now if they had stuck with 786 00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:10.719 pay per view in terms of how the revenue would 787 00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:14.559 compare and how you know, what the what the pace 788 00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:16.039 of pay per view buys would be, if it would 789 00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:18.000 have been, if it would have diminished at the same 790 00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:21.199 rate TV ratings have or or what. I mean, we 791 00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:23.199 just don't know. That's an alternate universe. And anyone who 792 00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:25.320 says they know doesn't. You can look at indicators and 793 00:39:25.599 --> 00:39:28.679 try to guess. But you are right to back up 794 00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:30.679 and make that point that if they suddenly start trying 795 00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:34.960 to charge people thirty or fifty or seventy dollars. I mean, 796 00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:37.400 I looked at the Conor McGregor fight. I was like, 797 00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:38.920 I kind of, you know, want to see this, and 798 00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:41.519 I just looked and I was like, I can't justify 799 00:39:41.559 --> 00:39:45.039 paying whatever seventy bucks or whatever for what amount to 800 00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:47.280 probably a two minute squash, and that's what it turned 801 00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:51.719 out to be. And so I just that's again, but 802 00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:53.480 it comes kind of full circle back to even it 803 00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:56.599 You're right, even if the product is really good, will 804 00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:59.480 people be resistant after the ten dollars flat fee or 805 00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:02.000 ninety nin for so long will they be resistant to 806 00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:04.960 seeing through McIntyre against brock Lesner, no matter how good 807 00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:06.840 of a job they do building that up. And that's 808 00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:10.320 absolutely a question that Vince McMahon doesn't know the answer to. 809 00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:15.519 And the scary part of it's the dealers structor like UFCS, 810 00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:17.880 he's not gonna have to care I always right, you know, 811 00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:19.679 when it comes to that paper. Now, there could be 812 00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:21.679 other effects on his overall product that he would have 813 00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:23.119 to care about, but when it comes to the pay 814 00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:24.679 per view, he just rugged his shoulders. 815 00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:25.159 Yep. 816 00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:27.480 And and same with the same thing with raw ratings. 817 00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:30.360 There's fewer people watching, and then people shrug their shoulders, 818 00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:33.079 and Vince can point to, oh, look we were the 819 00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:36.960 number was it? Two three and seven rated? Seventh rated 820 00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:40.039 hours a couple of weeks ago in January and all 821 00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:42.199 of cable, you know, they were one of the top rated. 822 00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:43.880 Even though the ratings are lower than last year and 823 00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:46.239 way lower than two and three years ago. They can 824 00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:48.360 point to certain things to go yeah, but relatively speaking, 825 00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:50.679 my counter argument to that is, yeah, but fewer people 826 00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:54.400 are watching your products start to finish live and that 827 00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:59.159 reduction in engagement means fewer people being being exposed to 828 00:40:59.199 --> 00:41:01.840 your current and new ste fewer people being excited to 829 00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:05.079 buy tickets, fewer people and who are even a candidate 830 00:41:05.079 --> 00:41:07.119 to buy the network. So you can say, well, we 831 00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:08.480 got a flat fee for X number of years, so 832 00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:11.639 ratings don't matter. That's just BS ratings matter because that's 833 00:41:11.679 --> 00:41:13.840 those are the that's a that is a gauge on 834 00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:16.280 not only a gauge on how excited they are now 835 00:41:16.280 --> 00:41:18.519 compared to one month ago or a year ago. But 836 00:41:18.559 --> 00:41:21.280 if you say, well, but the trend is downward, it's inevitable, Well, 837 00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:22.960 you have fewer people who are watching your product. And 838 00:41:23.079 --> 00:41:25.000 I don't think watching the top ten moments in w 839 00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:29.400 on YouTube is the same thing as a viewer watching 840 00:41:29.719 --> 00:41:31.920 raw live in terms of someone being a candidate to 841 00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:34.719 buy a ticket or buy the network. So it it 842 00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:40.239 still comes back to that, and I am I'm fascinated 843 00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:42.079 to see where they go. And then you have aw 844 00:41:42.559 --> 00:41:44.719 just kind of doing their thing for two hours a week, 845 00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:47.840 much lower budget but high enough to look major league, 846 00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:50.480 you know, putting out pay per views. I think it's 847 00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:53.760 going to be telling how revolution does the first one 848 00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:57.639 I got, you know, in what way do you think. 849 00:41:57.840 --> 00:42:01.960 Well, just if wwster for pay per view again, you know, 850 00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:04.119 does that cut into people's budget for AW? 851 00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:04.519 Well? 852 00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:06.159 You know, I mean in some cases, I think it'll 853 00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:10.119 drive people to AW, you know, the more disenfranchised people 854 00:42:10.119 --> 00:42:13.880 that are frustrated and that hey, AW has been charging. 855 00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:14.000 This all along. 856 00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:17.679 I mean, WWE did this. This is ten dollars. This 857 00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:20.239 is what your pay per view and the whole monthly 858 00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:23.039 service are now worth. So there could be some backlash 859 00:42:23.079 --> 00:42:24.480 with that. I mean, you still you do hear from 860 00:42:24.519 --> 00:42:27.280 people when it comes to the price point of AW 861 00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:29.559 shows done, this is way too much. Everybody else is 862 00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:32.320 charging ten bucks. But they could actually be the good 863 00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:35.280 guy to some people because well that's what they've done 864 00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:38.159 from the beginning, where WWE is gone, hey, we're taking 865 00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:38.559 that back. 866 00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:41.679 Well, and aw's out running monthly shows and they're giving 867 00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:44.679 you two hours a week on cable, not seven. So 868 00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:47.880 there's you know, I guess with pay per views it's 869 00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:50.800 generally five hours around. SmackDown NXT's not a big part 870 00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:52.880 of the of the monthly pay p reviews on network. 871 00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:56.239 But nevertheless, yeah, AW can be the good guy, and 872 00:42:56.440 --> 00:42:58.280 you know they're going to splinter the market. I mean, 873 00:42:58.519 --> 00:43:02.599 if there's a hardware store on a corner and there's 874 00:43:02.599 --> 00:43:04.159 a line out the door because so many people want 875 00:43:04.199 --> 00:43:06.960 to buy hammers and nails and lawnmowers, and there's an 876 00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:09.920 empty location across the street that used to be a Blockbuster, 877 00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:12.280 somebody is gonna look and go, oh god, there's a 878 00:43:12.320 --> 00:43:14.480 lot of hardware business in this market. I'm gonna open 879 00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:17.159 one kitty corner and take forty fifty percent of their 880 00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:20.039 revenue underprice them get sixty percent, like OfficeMax, you know, 881 00:43:20.119 --> 00:43:22.159 kind of did to drive all the mod pop office 882 00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:25.639 supply stores out of business twenty years ago. AW is 883 00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:28.360 that is opening up in that empty Blockbuster they're saying, 884 00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:31.519 or what used to be WW or whatever. They're filling 885 00:43:31.599 --> 00:43:34.159 that void. And by definition, there are people who are 886 00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:36.199 progressing fans and they're gonna watch them pro wrestling, and 887 00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:38.960 aw's pulling them away from RAW. You know, that's one 888 00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:40.639 of the reasons RAW ratings are down from yer ago, 889 00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:42.920 even if the product is better, is some people just 890 00:43:43.000 --> 00:43:44.840 they only have so many so much time to watch wrestling, 891 00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:47.880 and AEW serves them better. So of course that's gonna 892 00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:50.440 carry over to pay per view, and of course that's 893 00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:52.719 going to carry over to some people canceling ww network 894 00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:55.320 because they want to save their money up for the 895 00:43:55.480 --> 00:43:58.599 every few months big pay per view with the wrestlers 896 00:43:58.679 --> 00:44:01.360 and the just the brand and that AW projects that 897 00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:04.440 people identify with and see as the good guy in 898 00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:04.840 this fight. 899 00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:05.800 Yeah. 900 00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:09.159 I think this potentially Again, it all depends on the 901 00:44:09.159 --> 00:44:11.559 structure of the deal and if it goes to fruition, 902 00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:14.480 this could be one of the bigger stories of twenty 903 00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:18.239 twenty because it's not just WWEAEW all of a sudden, 904 00:44:18.639 --> 00:44:21.679 That money that somebody had for an NWA pay per view, 905 00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:24.440 Do I want to spend that now because you know 906 00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:26.639 WWE is charging me extra and I want to see 907 00:44:26.679 --> 00:44:29.119 that show, and you get the trickle down effect on 908 00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:30.119 our club all of it. 909 00:44:30.280 --> 00:44:32.880 I think everyone can be affected by this deal. Yep. 910 00:44:35.320 --> 00:44:39.400 Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or AEW Dynamite 911 00:44:39.400 --> 00:44:41.760 in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts 912 00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:43.400 on the show or a topic you want us to 913 00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:48.119 address or a question for us. Wadkeller Podcast at pwtorch 914 00:44:48.199 --> 00:44:52.480 dot com. Weadkeller Podcast at petwtorch dot com. If there's 915 00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:54.199 anything else going on, in pro wrestling that you want 916 00:44:54.239 --> 00:44:57.400 us to address on our main podcast during our mailbank segments. 917 00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:01.119 That same email applies Wade Keller podcast at PW toorch 918 00:45:01.159 --> 00:45:03.960 dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us know what 919 00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:06.280 you think of what we're saying, and let us know 920 00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:08.360 what you want us to talk about and ask us 921 00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:14.400 specific questions. Wade Keller Podcast at pw torch dot com. 922 00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:16.320 All right, Jason, let's take a moment here for you 923 00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:18.599 to plug your website and your. 924 00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:21.199 Podcast absolutely pro Wrestling dot Net. 925 00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:25.039 I am updating the site way too much, live coverage 926 00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:28.760 of most of the major television shows and audio reviews 927 00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:30.800 as well. On the members side of things. It is 928 00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:34.000 the ad free version of Pro Wrestling dot Net. All 929 00:45:34.039 --> 00:45:36.400 the major television shows and pay per views covered in 930 00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:39.679 audio form. We also have the dot netweekly audio show 931 00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:42.119 where Jake Burnett and I get together and discuss all 932 00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:42.639 the news. 933 00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:42.880 Of the week. 934 00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:45.920 I host the Q and A show on Monday, answering 935 00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:48.920 members wrestling questions and non wrestling questions at the end, 936 00:45:48.920 --> 00:45:51.000 which is a lot of fun. And if you are 937 00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:55.920 into more just free podcast content, check out my Pro 938 00:45:55.960 --> 00:46:00.000 Wrestling Boom podcast. It's available wherever you get your podcasts, 939 00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:03.960 just search for Apple Podcasts or anywhere for Pro Wrestling 940 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:07.280 Boom and my recent most recent guests have included just 941 00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:11.480 incredible Court Bower of MLW. Very open discussion with Court 942 00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:14.280 about all things MLW, at least what he could talk 943 00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:17.199 about because they're in some negotiations right now. But again 944 00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:19.320 that is Pro Wrestling Boom and if you have any 945 00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:21.239 questions about anything, you can always reach out to me 946 00:46:21.320 --> 00:46:23.519 on Twitter at Pro Wrestling Net. 947 00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:27.519 Well, let's talk about AW for a second. They've had 948 00:46:27.559 --> 00:46:31.199 some good things going right now in terms of Hangman 949 00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:35.079 Page and Knny Omegan, the Bucks that I think they're 950 00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:36.719 all in a better position the last time we talked 951 00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:39.639 Jason in terms of creating some buzz and people being 952 00:46:39.639 --> 00:46:43.000 invested in the direction that they go in. They've got 953 00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:45.719 a good thing going with John Moxley right now in 954 00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:47.840 Chris Jericho and just a good thing with Jericho in 955 00:46:47.880 --> 00:46:53.360 the Inner Circle and the Cody MJFF angle, and you know, 956 00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:55.360 we can it was a little over indulgent, a little long. 957 00:46:55.480 --> 00:46:58.320 I understand some of that criticism that's coming in, but overall, 958 00:46:58.559 --> 00:47:00.320 you know, they've taken MGF and turned it into a 959 00:47:00.360 --> 00:47:04.440 star with their audience, and Cody is a top tier 960 00:47:04.480 --> 00:47:07.559 sympathetic babyface to the aw audience, and and so I 961 00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:10.679 think they have some some strong pillars to their product 962 00:47:10.760 --> 00:47:12.800 right now. And yet on the other side, and I 963 00:47:12.920 --> 00:47:15.199 spent a decent amount of time on last night's postial 964 00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:18.199 talking about it, there's still kind of a sloppiness to 965 00:47:18.280 --> 00:47:19.280 certain things they're. 966 00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:20.280 Doing and. 967 00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:23.840 A sense of I mean, like I was ranting about 968 00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:26.119 this on the vipway Killer online Tuesday night a bit 969 00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:29.000 which is AW Dark in the Road to the City 970 00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:31.960 this week, it just feels like a deck of card 971 00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:35.679 shuffle of features, Like there's there's no coherent vision right 972 00:47:35.719 --> 00:47:38.320 now for what AW Dark is. I don't know how 973 00:47:38.360 --> 00:47:41.280 you are, but it's like a struggle to figure out 974 00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:43.639 what the announced matches are for aaw Even after I 975 00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:45.960 watch Dark and Road two, I still don't know what 976 00:47:46.039 --> 00:47:48.000 scheduled for Dark. I kind of remember what they said 977 00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:49.239 a week earlier, and then I can go on their 978 00:47:49.239 --> 00:47:51.599 Twitter feed and find it, but they don't have it 979 00:47:51.639 --> 00:47:54.639 on their website. And like, AW Dark should be hyping 980 00:47:54.679 --> 00:47:56.960 and promoting and getting you excited about Dynamite, and they're 981 00:47:56.960 --> 00:47:59.679 not doing it. So that's one example of where it 982 00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:03.239 does does feel like there's a number of chefs and 983 00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:05.880 they're working in different kitchens and they're not communicating with 984 00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:08.800 each other, and I just imagine where could they be 985 00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:10.800 with the good things, the good things that matter more 986 00:48:10.840 --> 00:48:13.920 than anything I just talked about. But if they were 987 00:48:13.960 --> 00:48:17.199 doing these other things better and the product was cleaned 988 00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:18.760 up a little bit, you know, take the red pen 989 00:48:18.840 --> 00:48:20.280 to the script and go, we can tweak this to 990 00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:23.480 improve this aspect of it, I think they could be, 991 00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:26.800 you know, significantly better off in terms of viewership and 992 00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:29.360 engagement to get people to buy their pay per views. 993 00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:31.280 And it does feel kind of sloppy. It still feels 994 00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:34.119 like a first draft sometimes of what this product I 995 00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:37.199 think should should have been by now. So what's what's 996 00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:39.960 your take on my sort of overview of where AW 997 00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:40.519 stands now? 998 00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:42.320 I know, I think you nailed it. 999 00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:45.320 I think watching the show, I do feel like we're 1000 00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:48.840 seeing different creative visions. And I'm sure, you know, Tony 1001 00:48:48.920 --> 00:48:52.840 Kahan's signing off on everything, but it does feel like, Okay, 1002 00:48:52.880 --> 00:48:56.119 there's a different vision for what Cody's doing and maybe 1003 00:48:56.199 --> 00:48:58.920 Jericho's doing, and then I don't know what's going on 1004 00:48:58.960 --> 00:48:59.719 in the women's division. 1005 00:48:59.719 --> 00:49:02.480 Happen time. That's a mess. The tag division is a 1006 00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:03.599 bit of a mess at times. 1007 00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:07.840 There's some better things happening on top now with I 1008 00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:10.360 do when I went back way up, I think Hangman 1009 00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:13.320 Page is in a better place, and it's mostly because 1010 00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:15.239 of the stone cold quality of him boozing. 1011 00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:18.039 I don't even think like that was my design. 1012 00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:21.000 I think they, I agree, bumbled onto this, you know, 1013 00:49:21.079 --> 00:49:23.679 and that's fine, you know that'll happen. But I don't 1014 00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:25.920 really know that Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks are 1015 00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:28.880 in a better place. I think Kenny kind of feels 1016 00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:32.000 like the peacemaker. And if you're one of those people 1017 00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:36.320 who is into you know, stone cold Hangman Page and 1018 00:49:36.440 --> 00:49:39.519 him drinking and you're having fun with that, are you 1019 00:49:39.599 --> 00:49:41.320 kind of looking at the Bucks going, well, knock it up, 1020 00:49:41.360 --> 00:49:42.119 you kill Joyce? 1021 00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:45.039 Well, absolutely when I say they're in a better place, 1022 00:49:45.079 --> 00:49:48.280 and I agree with your kind of qualification on that, 1023 00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:50.199 which is they're in a better place simply because they're 1024 00:49:50.199 --> 00:49:53.159 involved in something people care about. But sure, fair enough, 1025 00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:54.920 and that's all I mean, Because they're not in a 1026 00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:56.400 better place if the idea is for them to be 1027 00:49:56.440 --> 00:49:59.760 babyface as opposite of Hangman Page, turning heel. They have 1028 00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:04.719 bubbled upon something and to extend the Stone Cold analogy, 1029 00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:07.119 you know, he was supposed to be a heel and 1030 00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:09.199 the fans started sharing him and they turned a face. 1031 00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:12.360 Hulk Hogan came in at a w a supposed to 1032 00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.519 be a heel, the fans started cheering him, and Hulkamania 1033 00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:18.639 was born prior to going to WWF, by the way, 1034 00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:23.400 for those who don't know that history and should And 1035 00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:25.639 so now you have Hangman Page. And I'm not saying 1036 00:50:25.639 --> 00:50:27.000 he's going to be the next Hulk Cogan or Stone 1037 00:50:27.039 --> 00:50:29.440 Cult because I honestly don't think he will be, but 1038 00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:32.119 I think he can be more than the next James Storm. 1039 00:50:32.599 --> 00:50:39.519 And there's something happening here where Aw's audience relates to 1040 00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:43.559 someone who wants to enjoy a beer and doesn't want 1041 00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:46.559 the friend nagging them about drinking too much. And at 1042 00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:50.760 this point, Hangman Page hasn't done anything that actually shows 1043 00:50:51.079 --> 00:50:53.719 he's he deserves to have the beer he yanked out 1044 00:50:53.719 --> 00:50:56.559 of his hand, like they've they've approached that line. And 1045 00:50:56.599 --> 00:50:59.599 there's times where he seemed, you know, disengaged a little 1046 00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:01.000 bit more than he should be if he's going to 1047 00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:03.840 be a good friend and a good partner, but it's 1048 00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:06.239 not I don't think working the way that they intend. 1049 00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:10.760 So the question is is AW nimble enough to either say, 1050 00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:12.239 all right, we got some of those Page, let's keep 1051 00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:15.360 them babyface, and the young Bucks we want to keep 1052 00:51:15.400 --> 00:51:17.280 them babyface too, So we need them to come to 1053 00:51:17.320 --> 00:51:19.199 an understanding and kind of pat Page on the back 1054 00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:21.599 and go, yeah, you do your thing, we'll do ours, 1055 00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:23.679 and it's cool. We'll still be friends, but we're not. 1056 00:51:23.800 --> 00:51:25.639 You know, if that's working for you, great, and then 1057 00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:27.800 just get him into different programs or do you turn 1058 00:51:27.840 --> 00:51:30.719 the box or do you turn Kenny? They have some 1059 00:51:30.760 --> 00:51:34.440 options right now, and I'm curious because this is aw's 1060 00:51:34.440 --> 00:51:36.880 first test of a crowd reaction going I think quite 1061 00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:39.159 different than there they've envisioned when they booked it. 1062 00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:43.000 Yeah, I don't know if I've seen the Bucks work 1063 00:51:43.079 --> 00:51:47.400 Keel since Gosh, what the generation me? Did they work 1064 00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:50.280 some here? I mean, I've honestly forgotten back to what 1065 00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:55.559 they did in impact. I'm sure they can so much 1066 00:51:55.599 --> 00:51:59.480 of their offense. And to their credit, I mentioned last 1067 00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:02.440 week in one of my hit lists that I don't 1068 00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:04.840 think they get enough credit for adapting their style to 1069 00:52:04.880 --> 00:52:05.800 who they're in the ring with. 1070 00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:07.719 I think they do a really nice job of that. 1071 00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:10.719 But so maybe they can go out there and work 1072 00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:12.960 more of a heel style, eliminate some of the crowd 1073 00:52:12.960 --> 00:52:14.360 pleasing spots and things like that. 1074 00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:17.119 Can they handle it on the mic? 1075 00:52:17.199 --> 00:52:22.480 I wouldn't mind seeing the Bucks turn heel, but I 1076 00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:25.239 don't know it's the right direction. I guess I would 1077 00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:28.400 take the approach of, all right, this is clicking better 1078 00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:31.159 than we thought. We still have our guys in the elite, 1079 00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:33.119 and we were going to go with hangman page feuding 1080 00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:36.199 with Kenny Omega. Let's scrap that. There's other people they 1081 00:52:36.239 --> 00:52:38.559 can both work with. This page thing is catching fire. 1082 00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:41.719 There's no need to turn the popular Young Bucks or 1083 00:52:41.800 --> 00:52:45.159 Kenny Omega right now. So let's just kind of figure 1084 00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:47.039 it a way out of this if we wanted to. 1085 00:52:47.159 --> 00:52:48.719 I think they want to have a match between those 1086 00:52:48.719 --> 00:52:51.360 tag teams, and you can do that, but it can 1087 00:52:51.480 --> 00:52:53.559 end with mutual respect and you kind of move on. 1088 00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:56.199 That'd be kind of my vote right now. Although I 1089 00:52:56.239 --> 00:52:59.119 am a trigue by the Bucks's heels, I don't know. 1090 00:52:59.880 --> 00:53:02.440 I mean, the fans like them, and they aw fan 1091 00:53:02.480 --> 00:53:04.719 base likes them, but they like other people too. They 1092 00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:07.159 like Moxley a lot, they like Hangman Page a lot. 1093 00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:09.760 We can, you know, like Cody a lot. I think 1094 00:53:09.800 --> 00:53:12.360 they can afford to have the Bucks turned heel and 1095 00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:16.039 feud with and then line up some some babyface teams 1096 00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:19.320 to face them. I'm not against that. I think the 1097 00:53:19.360 --> 00:53:21.519 Bucks could be obnoxious. I don't think being the elite 1098 00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:25.039 on YouTube is an important enough franchise that you can't 1099 00:53:25.079 --> 00:53:27.480 that you that you worry about risking what they've built 1100 00:53:27.519 --> 00:53:30.519 up there. So I'm intrigued by it. I don't rule 1101 00:53:30.519 --> 00:53:32.239 it out. There's a lot of other factors at play, 1102 00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:35.440 so I can I can endorse in theory either approach 1103 00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:37.800 that they take all of that said. I mean I 1104 00:53:37.880 --> 00:53:40.199 lean a little bit towards keep them babyface and have 1105 00:53:40.280 --> 00:53:43.440 them just kind of not come to a point in 1106 00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:47.320 no return and instead just you know, have it out 1107 00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:49.000 and then let hay Man Page go be a baby 1108 00:53:49.039 --> 00:53:52.280 face but not be in the vicinity of Omega and 1109 00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:54.199 the Bucks and let him do his thing. 1110 00:53:54.639 --> 00:53:54.880 Yeah. 1111 00:53:55.760 --> 00:53:58.320 I mean, hey, if they if they feel like it's 1112 00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:00.559 a good direction for the by, wouldn't proach I mean, 1113 00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:04.519 I think they have proven over the years to be 1114 00:54:04.599 --> 00:54:07.559 such strong merch sellers and things like that. My first 1115 00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:11.599 inclination is to keep them babyfaced. But you know, if 1116 00:54:11.599 --> 00:54:14.039 they're willing to figure out we got others we can 1117 00:54:14.079 --> 00:54:16.039 sell T shirts with, then we'll be just fine. 1118 00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:18.159 Cool. I'd be interested in that. 1119 00:54:18.639 --> 00:54:21.800 I get merchandise sales. And I don't mean this like 1120 00:54:21.800 --> 00:54:24.719 I'm saying it's important and it's not. It is important, 1121 00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:30.400 but it's more important to present your wrestling characters on 1122 00:54:30.440 --> 00:54:33.199 your TV show in a way that makes the product 1123 00:54:33.239 --> 00:54:35.760 as good as it can be. And so the idea 1124 00:54:35.800 --> 00:54:37.840 that while we can't turn this person heel because they're 1125 00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:40.679 selling T shirts, it's like, I get that's a factor, 1126 00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:46.880 but you're put the main driver. If you start doing that, 1127 00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:49.079 you're sacrificing the quality of your overall product and the 1128 00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:53.000 matches you're promoting. If you think merchandise aside, we should 1129 00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:55.559 turn this this act heal and you don't do it. 1130 00:54:56.920 --> 00:55:00.199 I just I'm not Yeah, I'm not a I'm not 1131 00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:02.320 a believer in that. I think you have to do 1132 00:55:02.360 --> 00:55:07.960 what's best for the wrestling product itself and let the 1133 00:55:08.039 --> 00:55:11.360 merch money fallward. It may. I just you know, if 1134 00:55:11.360 --> 00:55:15.760 they look at their per cat merch sales at live events. 1135 00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:19.119 I just think people go to the show with fifty 1136 00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:20.639 bucks or one hundred bucks and go, I'm willing to 1137 00:55:20.639 --> 00:55:22.679 spend this, and they're going to spend it on you 1138 00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:26.840 know something, And yes, they might buy a Bucks T shirt, 1139 00:55:27.079 --> 00:55:30.199 but if it's not available or their heels, they're gonna 1140 00:55:30.199 --> 00:55:32.320 buy a Mox T shirt or Cody T shirt or whoever. 1141 00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:35.360 So anyway, unless you go to. 1142 00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:38.400 The Awa Easter Spectacular with money to buy a T 1143 00:55:38.519 --> 00:55:41.760 shirt and like Greg Gania looks like the Hulk in 1144 00:55:41.920 --> 00:55:45.119 his because it's a weird green T shirt and all 1145 00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:46.440 of the T shirts are terrible. 1146 00:55:46.480 --> 00:55:49.440 Sorry at a flashback, Wow, that is quite the flashback. 1147 00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:55.559 Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me. 1148 00:55:55.719 --> 00:55:59.400 Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. 1149 00:55:59.639 --> 00:56:01.840 Each week he'll hear the latest news and analysis for 1150 00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:04.039 me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need along 1151 00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:07.000 with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling 1152 00:56:07.039 --> 00:56:10.400 Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in 1153 00:56:10.400 --> 00:56:14.119 the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and 1154 00:56:14.159 --> 00:56:17.320 all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at 1155 00:56:17.320 --> 00:56:24.920 pw boom dot com. Once again, that's pw boom dot com. 1156 00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:27.800 So to speaking of some of the slop is something 1157 00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:29.280 kind of the sloppiness of the product. 1158 00:56:29.960 --> 00:56:30.079 You know. 1159 00:56:30.199 --> 00:56:33.119 Jim Ross is the leader in pointing it out, you know, 1160 00:56:33.199 --> 00:56:35.119 and he's a contributor to a degree with the mispronouncing 1161 00:56:35.119 --> 00:56:37.280 the names, although he was a little self deprecating, which 1162 00:56:37.360 --> 00:56:39.199 was in self aware, which was nice on last night's 1163 00:56:39.199 --> 00:56:42.920 show about that joking not even I can misidentify the Bundy. 1164 00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:45.880 But but you know, he's pointing out, you know, the 1165 00:56:46.199 --> 00:56:49.920 tags and who's legal, and he's pointing out you know, 1166 00:56:50.000 --> 00:56:53.320 wrestlers more and more worried about striking their signature pose 1167 00:56:53.360 --> 00:56:55.320 in the middle of a match as opposed to winning 1168 00:56:55.320 --> 00:56:55.719 a match. 1169 00:56:56.079 --> 00:56:57.840 Oh my god, did I hate the finish of the 1170 00:56:57.840 --> 00:56:58.599 Best Friends match? 1171 00:56:58.760 --> 00:56:58.960 Yes? 1172 00:56:59.239 --> 00:57:01.280 And Ross did too, and you could tell because he 1173 00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:04.679 put it out. So there's and you know, I mean, 1174 00:57:04.679 --> 00:57:08.039 there's just lots of weird little things. And again you 1175 00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:09.840 can kind of get, you know, down a rabbit hole 1176 00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:12.519 of doesn't really matter that Adam Page's picture of beer 1177 00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:14.400 magically appeared out of nowhere when he walked into the 1178 00:57:14.400 --> 00:57:16.400 hallway with with a with a plastic cup and suddenly 1179 00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:20.239 you do that, w Yes, I just to me, like 1180 00:57:20.679 --> 00:57:22.400 they should just pan the camera down, and there's Marco 1181 00:57:22.440 --> 00:57:24.320 Stump handing it to him like that would I've had. 1182 00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:26.440 To tell my girlfriend that before. I don't know where 1183 00:57:26.440 --> 00:57:27.039 this came from. 1184 00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:32.239 So there's there's weird sloppiness like and again like last 1185 00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:34.679 week where Joey Genealogist happened to be sitting in the 1186 00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:38.079 exact spot that Penelope and Kip Saviian were killed. 1187 00:57:38.079 --> 00:57:39.280 Oh yeah, I didn't like that at all. 1188 00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:41.840 Yeah. So they're doing things that are just a little 1189 00:57:41.880 --> 00:57:44.800 too cute by half when you can explain them away 1190 00:57:45.159 --> 00:57:46.800 if you put a little extra thought into it. And 1191 00:57:46.840 --> 00:57:49.000 I'm I'm going to keep pointing that stuff out. Some 1192 00:57:49.039 --> 00:57:51.480 people think it doesn't matter, or it's nitpicking, or you're 1193 00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:54.119 taking the fun out of it. I just I just 1194 00:57:54.159 --> 00:57:56.239 think you've clean up your product. You you want to 1195 00:57:56.280 --> 00:57:59.599 have a a professional product. And part of it, to 1196 00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:02.519 me is not that it's in and of itself is 1197 00:58:02.519 --> 00:58:06.519 a big deal, but it's symptomatic of a sloppiness otherwise. 1198 00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:10.480 You know, I mean a food analogy, if a chef 1199 00:58:10.760 --> 00:58:12.440 that you're if you're at a restaurant on the cook er, 1200 00:58:12.559 --> 00:58:16.000 chef walks out and out of the kitchen and his 1201 00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:20.079 fly is down and his shirt's on backwards and he's 1202 00:58:20.119 --> 00:58:23.800 sweating and there's you know, food on his nose. You're 1203 00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:25.480 just like, oh God, what's going on in the kitchen 1204 00:58:25.480 --> 00:58:27.920 that I'm not seeing? And do I really want to 1205 00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:31.280 eat here? And I'm with aw. There's certain just weird 1206 00:58:31.320 --> 00:58:33.760 things that happen that you would think of and that 1207 00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:35.679 someone with an eye for the product would would clean 1208 00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:38.719 up first. And then you just think, what is this 1209 00:58:38.840 --> 00:58:41.679 symptomatic of behind the scenes in terms of the cohesion 1210 00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:46.400 and vision and execution of the booking? And I think 1211 00:58:46.400 --> 00:58:49.599 there are signs there that this product should be better 1212 00:58:49.599 --> 00:58:51.440 than it is and it should be cleaned up a 1213 00:58:51.440 --> 00:58:53.639 little bit. And I don't know if it is because 1214 00:58:53.679 --> 00:58:56.239 they have you know this this weird as Tony contact 1215 00:58:56.280 --> 00:58:58.760 with me about on the eve of Dynamite's debut, you know, 1216 00:58:58.880 --> 00:59:01.159 well we just communicate by you know, Bucks are out, 1217 00:59:01.199 --> 00:59:06.400 Kelly and Kenny's up in Canada, and Cody's over here 1218 00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:09.079 and we're all just you know, kind of getting together 1219 00:59:09.119 --> 00:59:11.119 once a week and piecing together a script. It kind 1220 00:59:11.159 --> 00:59:13.519 of feels that way sometimes that there isn't that one 1221 00:59:13.559 --> 00:59:15.440 cohesive vision and I don't know. I mean, does that 1222 00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:17.599 is that a problem Jason? If so on a one 1223 00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:20.719 to ten scale, real minor or real serious, I. 1224 00:59:21.519 --> 00:59:26.719 Right now to their audience, it's probably well, I mean 1225 00:59:27.039 --> 00:59:31.320 a three big picture. I think it's something to be 1226 00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:33.440 concerned by. And I wouldn't be surprised at all. I 1227 00:59:33.440 --> 00:59:35.199 don't know this, but I wouldn't be surprised if it 1228 00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:37.880 bothers the hell out of some people who are involved 1229 00:59:37.880 --> 00:59:40.599 in that creative process and others kind of have a 1230 00:59:40.599 --> 00:59:42.920 different vision and don't think it matters, you know, I mean, 1231 00:59:42.920 --> 00:59:45.079 that's going to happen when you have so many different 1232 00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:48.639 people taking part in this creative process. And I do 1233 00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:51.880 I mean, I just see. And maybe it's because he's 1234 00:59:51.920 --> 00:59:54.519 paying more attention to his own stuff, but I don't 1235 00:59:54.559 --> 00:59:58.599 see this level of clumsiness when it comes to what 1236 00:59:58.679 --> 01:00:03.079 Cody is doing, for instance, or Jericho is doing. 1237 01:00:02.920 --> 01:00:04.599 And you know, and so, but I don't know who's 1238 01:00:04.599 --> 01:00:05.079 booking what. 1239 01:00:05.480 --> 01:00:07.519 I think that would be fascinating to find out if 1240 01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:10.039 is all of this, can you trace all of it 1241 01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:12.280 back to one or two people or is it no, 1242 01:00:12.559 --> 01:00:15.360 that's just you know, collaborative and and this is just. 1243 01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:18.440 Happening in my interview Cody year and a half ago, 1244 01:00:18.679 --> 01:00:22.880 he said, you know, the Bucks have their ironic approach 1245 01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:25.880 to wrestling style, and it's not my style, you know, 1246 01:00:26.079 --> 01:00:29.840 he said, He's more traditional. You have Cody saying recently 1247 01:00:30.880 --> 01:00:33.199 that watching Dynamite should be all you have to watch, 1248 01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:34.440 you know, the shoulder content. 1249 01:00:34.519 --> 01:00:35.159 It should be. 1250 01:00:35.239 --> 01:00:37.639 It should be and it's not even close. And I 1251 01:00:38.280 --> 01:00:40.519 don't know who's keeping track to that. 1252 01:00:40.599 --> 01:00:44.079 I mean, what they need to hire someone for quality 1253 01:00:44.119 --> 01:00:47.960 control in a major way, not just for the shows 1254 01:00:48.000 --> 01:00:50.119 and the YouTube shows and all of that, but just 1255 01:00:50.159 --> 01:00:51.840 to clean up some of the things we're talking about. 1256 01:00:51.840 --> 01:00:54.239 I think the right person, could, you know, I mean 1257 01:00:54.280 --> 01:00:57.320 the key would be what it matter? Would the people 1258 01:00:57.360 --> 01:00:59.639 in charge actually go, hey, you're right, let's fix this, 1259 01:00:59.880 --> 01:01:01.559 or or do they just yeah, we don't care about that. 1260 01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:04.639 Yeah? Well, I mean I will just say whether they 1261 01:01:04.679 --> 01:01:06.239 care or not, they should, you know, they object, I 1262 01:01:06.280 --> 01:01:09.119 think for the pride of having a better product. I mean, 1263 01:01:09.320 --> 01:01:12.639 Brandy Rhoads, you watch you know, the Road to Cleveland 1264 01:01:12.639 --> 01:01:14.920 and there's a session with a therapist. Then you watch 1265 01:01:15.239 --> 01:01:18.719 a r What No, I didn't, Yeah exactly, Well you're right, 1266 01:01:18.800 --> 01:01:19.840 and then you watch aw Dark. 1267 01:01:20.199 --> 01:01:21.079 Here here's my approach. 1268 01:01:21.199 --> 01:01:23.400 Yeah, if now this week I just simply ran out 1269 01:01:23.400 --> 01:01:29.039 of time, I will use I'll read reports on Dark 1270 01:01:29.559 --> 01:01:31.800 because I just don't I mean, there's so much content 1271 01:01:32.199 --> 01:01:34.239 and I'm not you know, if somebody wants to watch 1272 01:01:34.280 --> 01:01:37.440 Dark and enjoy it, awesome for me. I just you know, 1273 01:01:37.480 --> 01:01:40.440 there's something has to give. And I'm covering so many shows. 1274 01:01:40.679 --> 01:01:43.199 That's not one of them I'm covering. And so if 1275 01:01:43.239 --> 01:01:45.440 there's something that I feel like, oh, I need to 1276 01:01:45.480 --> 01:01:47.920 see this, then I'll go back and kind of you know, 1277 01:01:47.960 --> 01:01:50.880 skip ahead to that part on YouTube. I used to 1278 01:01:50.920 --> 01:01:52.800 watch The Road Toos. They've not a good job of 1279 01:01:52.840 --> 01:01:54.960 marketing that. It was like, oh, that's back. I had 1280 01:01:55.000 --> 01:01:58.440 no idea. So yeah, I mean, I'm kind of that 1281 01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:02.400 person who buy and law just watching Dynamite and there's 1282 01:02:02.440 --> 01:02:05.360 so many things I'm like, like the whole Nightmare collective thing, 1283 01:02:05.400 --> 01:02:07.320 like how has this not been explained on the show? 1284 01:02:08.159 --> 01:02:12.280 How is Dark not mentioned on Dynamite on a regular basis? 1285 01:02:12.599 --> 01:02:12.760 You know? 1286 01:02:12.920 --> 01:02:16.000 So I'm kind of that person that is doing what 1287 01:02:16.079 --> 01:02:19.760 Cody said you could do, and unfortunately he was inaccurate. 1288 01:02:20.199 --> 01:02:22.639 Yes, that's the thing, and so they go to the 1289 01:02:22.639 --> 01:02:26.519 trouble of of you know, Brandy's producing these these segments 1290 01:02:26.559 --> 01:02:28.599 with her therapist, and I'm like, the amount of time 1291 01:02:29.199 --> 01:02:31.440 that it took to produce that segment that doesn't get 1292 01:02:31.480 --> 01:02:34.039 acknowledged on Dynamite for two weeks in a row. And 1293 01:02:34.039 --> 01:02:36.360 then she comes and then we have the awesome Cang 1294 01:02:36.400 --> 01:02:40.280 attack and was that referenced on Dynamite No? Nope. So 1295 01:02:40.880 --> 01:02:44.079 and then you have Brandy showing up as the wife 1296 01:02:44.119 --> 01:02:48.880 of Cody minus all the hair snippin' spooky stuff whatever 1297 01:02:48.920 --> 01:02:51.840 she was doing, the cult like stuff, and we don't 1298 01:02:51.840 --> 01:02:54.840 get an explanation for that either. It's it's I mean, 1299 01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:58.960 if Vince Russell was doing this, people, there would be 1300 01:02:59.119 --> 01:03:01.440 way more people mock you know what I mean? Like 1301 01:03:01.559 --> 01:03:04.079 the aw's in this honeymoon period where there's these things 1302 01:03:04.079 --> 01:03:05.880 happening and people are like, yeah, but this is cool 1303 01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:07.559 and that's cool and they've got goodwill and they're cool 1304 01:03:07.559 --> 01:03:09.760 people and I'm rooting for them, But there I think 1305 01:03:09.800 --> 01:03:12.760 it's it's not serving them that there aren't people being 1306 01:03:12.800 --> 01:03:20.000 more critical of some of this, just shoddy continuums of characters. 1307 01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:23.280 The time it took for Brandy to put those segments 1308 01:03:23.320 --> 01:03:25.920 together that have amounted to nothing, So far. If instead 1309 01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:28.679 she read over the script and had an active role 1310 01:03:28.679 --> 01:03:32.639 behind the scenes being the quality control person like that 1311 01:03:32.639 --> 01:03:34.960 would be a much better use of Tony Kahn's money 1312 01:03:35.000 --> 01:03:39.239 for her. Then these segments that are on two different 1313 01:03:39.239 --> 01:03:41.800 shoulder content shows that end up being contradicted or not 1314 01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:44.639 acknowledged at least yet. Maybe they'll tie it all together 1315 01:03:44.679 --> 01:03:47.320 in the next week or two, but so far they haven't. 1316 01:03:47.360 --> 01:03:50.079 So yeah, it's where in aw dark has been one 1317 01:03:50.079 --> 01:03:52.760 of the bigger disappointments, you know. I mean, it's just 1318 01:03:53.519 --> 01:03:56.320 throwing together some matches that they taped the six days earlier, 1319 01:03:56.840 --> 01:04:00.400 and they're not and they're not hyping dynamite. That should 1320 01:04:00.400 --> 01:04:02.760 be a vehicle to get an extra fifty or one 1321 01:04:02.800 --> 01:04:06.119 hundred thousand people to watch on TNT who might skip 1322 01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:11.519 it or might otherwise be watching NXT, and they're not 1323 01:04:11.559 --> 01:04:14.280 taking advantage of that. I just it does kind of 1324 01:04:14.760 --> 01:04:18.199 it blows my mind. It is an option they're reaching 1325 01:04:18.239 --> 01:04:19.920 a lot of people, and they're not taking advantage of it. 1326 01:04:20.559 --> 01:04:23.400 Take two minutes out of the show to do a 1327 01:04:23.480 --> 01:04:26.639 quick recap video and in some weeks if there's not 1328 01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:29.760 enough justify two minutes, fine, dude, ninety second whatever. But 1329 01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:33.119 just they tell us what's happening on that show if 1330 01:04:33.119 --> 01:04:36.079 it's supposed to matter, and yeah, they don't do that. 1331 01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:40.280 It's so rare that they even acknowledge that that show 1332 01:04:40.360 --> 01:04:43.599 exists on Dynamite. It's strange to me. I don't understand 1333 01:04:43.599 --> 01:04:47.199 why you wouldn't. I don't understand why you'd run angles 1334 01:04:47.440 --> 01:04:50.679 on that show and then have no follow up whatsoever 1335 01:04:51.159 --> 01:04:53.079 on the Actually yeah, I mean, I know they've kind 1336 01:04:53.079 --> 01:04:57.119 of talked about Dynamite or Dark kind of being like, well, 1337 01:04:57.159 --> 01:04:59.440 we need to get a lot of people some reps 1338 01:04:59.480 --> 01:05:01.239 and things like that, because you know they're not letting 1339 01:05:01.239 --> 01:05:04.119 a lot of their talent work elsewhere. Okay, the then 1340 01:05:04.199 --> 01:05:06.119 leave it dark. If this is what you're gonna do, thin, 1341 01:05:06.480 --> 01:05:08.199 just have a bunch of truly dark matches. 1342 01:05:14.440 --> 01:05:16.079 You don't have to wait for the way Keller Pro 1343 01:05:16.119 --> 01:05:18.079 Wrestling post show to find out what I thought of 1344 01:05:18.159 --> 01:05:20.400 Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week, you can check 1345 01:05:20.440 --> 01:05:23.280 out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and 1346 01:05:23.360 --> 01:05:27.599 SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell 1347 01:05:27.599 --> 01:05:29.960 you what's happening in detail in case you missed the show, 1348 01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:32.960 and it will also analyze key segments and give my 1349 01:05:33.079 --> 01:05:36.880 random thoughts quips on what I am watching as it airs. 1350 01:05:36.920 --> 01:05:39.079 So check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night 1351 01:05:39.159 --> 01:05:44.239 at pewtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. I 1352 01:05:44.239 --> 01:05:46.599 cover those live at pw torch dot com with a 1353 01:05:46.639 --> 01:05:49.320 detailed written report with star ratings, and of course you 1354 01:05:49.320 --> 01:05:52.119 can find other TV reports from other contributors to pw 1355 01:05:52.159 --> 01:05:56.079 torch such as nxt roh, Impact Wrestling and more. Check 1356 01:05:56.079 --> 01:05:59.400 it out pwtorch dot com your first stop for TV 1357 01:05:59.599 --> 01:06:11.960 and pay review written records. AW Dark, I mean it's doing, 1358 01:06:12.039 --> 01:06:14.719 you know, around two hundred and fifty thousand views, give 1359 01:06:14.840 --> 01:06:18.280 or take. That's down, you know from where they were 1360 01:06:18.320 --> 01:06:21.119 in November and December. You know they were hitting four 1361 01:06:21.519 --> 01:06:24.039 four hundred plus five, you know, close to five hundred 1362 01:06:24.039 --> 01:06:27.440 thousand for aw Dark not long ago. I think people 1363 01:06:27.760 --> 01:06:32.840 have disconnected because if you watch an episode and you think, oh, 1364 01:06:32.960 --> 01:06:35.159 you know, something happened here, I'm glad I spent an 1365 01:06:35.159 --> 01:06:38.960 hour watching this, and then you tune into Dynamite and 1366 01:06:39.000 --> 01:06:41.960 it gets ignored. You start not thinking it doesn't matter. 1367 01:06:42.039 --> 01:06:45.679 So yeah, it's it's weird. It just it's it seems 1368 01:06:45.679 --> 01:06:47.679 like at some point Tony Knicam needs to kind of 1369 01:06:47.679 --> 01:06:49.960 step back and go, let's just give a fresh look 1370 01:06:49.960 --> 01:06:52.000 to everything we're doing and try to aim everything in 1371 01:06:52.039 --> 01:06:52.639 the right direction. 1372 01:06:52.760 --> 01:06:55.800 So, well, have they lost interest maybe already in Dark 1373 01:06:55.840 --> 01:06:57.519 to some extent because of the new show they're going 1374 01:06:57.559 --> 01:06:58.360 to be doing for TNT. 1375 01:06:58.920 --> 01:07:00.760 Well, wouldn't that be all the more to making our 1376 01:07:01.159 --> 01:07:03.840 relevant and build the brand up as important? Right? 1377 01:07:04.800 --> 01:07:05.400 Yeah? 1378 01:07:05.480 --> 01:07:07.599 I don't know, Like I I mean, where i'd spend 1379 01:07:07.639 --> 01:07:08.840 the money if I may a w I mean, if 1380 01:07:08.840 --> 01:07:11.440 there's a difference maker they can hire, you know, yes, 1381 01:07:12.239 --> 01:07:14.519 do that, uh with with if you have a sort 1382 01:07:14.559 --> 01:07:16.639 of a in your mind a salary cap But I 1383 01:07:16.639 --> 01:07:19.440 mean I would hire someone to just be your efficiency 1384 01:07:19.440 --> 01:07:22.360 expert and look at everything you're doing and have the 1385 01:07:22.440 --> 01:07:26.159 respect hopefully of the team with power the EVPs, et cetera, 1386 01:07:26.239 --> 01:07:29.199 and go, hey, let's let's put in and hire another 1387 01:07:29.400 --> 01:07:31.239 video producer, you know what, Jerry Borish type who is 1388 01:07:31.280 --> 01:07:33.280 just gonna put the time into put together really good 1389 01:07:33.360 --> 01:07:36.400 video packages on Dark in the road to because they're 1390 01:07:36.440 --> 01:07:38.760 capable of it. We see it with Cody, but we 1391 01:07:38.800 --> 01:07:41.039 don't and to a degree with Brandy. You see this 1392 01:07:41.039 --> 01:07:43.079 this elbow grease being put in on some of these features, 1393 01:07:43.119 --> 01:07:45.760 but not it's not happening with enough others. You know, 1394 01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:48.039 we get Darby doing is sort of you know, handheld 1395 01:07:48.039 --> 01:07:49.920 what does Darby do when he's not on TV? Stuff 1396 01:07:49.920 --> 01:07:51.840 which is at you know, interesting window into his life, 1397 01:07:51.880 --> 01:07:53.800 and those are fine. Those don't always make it out 1398 01:07:53.840 --> 01:07:56.639 of dynamite either. So this is I enjoy a w 1399 01:07:56.880 --> 01:07:59.599 This is a fan of the product they're putting out, 1400 01:08:00.119 --> 01:08:03.679 pointing things out that I think one would make the 1401 01:08:03.679 --> 01:08:07.119 product better and two that I think from an analyst standpoint, 1402 01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:11.880 are are are symptoms of something that isn't where it 1403 01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:14.079 should be four and a half months into their TV 1404 01:08:14.199 --> 01:08:15.960 run and you know, a year and a year plus 1405 01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:16.800 into them as a company. 1406 01:08:17.920 --> 01:08:20.800 No, you're doing a disservice to do anything different. Oh, 1407 01:08:20.840 --> 01:08:22.720 everything is wonderful and let's move on. I mean that 1408 01:08:22.840 --> 01:08:25.520 that's I hear that on some show and I'm just 1409 01:08:25.560 --> 01:08:29.600 like baffled by, Like, no, you know, naturally any show. 1410 01:08:29.640 --> 01:08:31.920 I mean, there's it's rare you find a flawless pro 1411 01:08:32.000 --> 01:08:35.479 wrestling show. I mean, I really like this week's n XT, 1412 01:08:35.760 --> 01:08:38.920 but even that, like, okay, maybe the the non title 1413 01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:41.159 cruiserweight match went a little longer than it needed to. 1414 01:08:41.520 --> 01:08:42.880 But I mean, there's just a little too much of 1415 01:08:42.920 --> 01:08:45.640 everything's wonderful because as you said, they're in that honeymoon 1416 01:08:45.680 --> 01:08:46.640 phase with some people. 1417 01:08:46.920 --> 01:08:50.439 Yeah. Uh, And I was, you know, picking on on 1418 01:08:51.000 --> 01:08:53.640 AW for some of the you know, nonsense stuff, even 1419 01:08:53.840 --> 01:08:57.720 just you know, I noticing that WWB does better than 1420 01:08:57.760 --> 01:09:01.600 AW by watching a double you you know, there's just 1421 01:09:01.640 --> 01:09:03.840 there's there's things, and it makes the product sometimes more 1422 01:09:03.840 --> 01:09:05.880 sterile and predictable, but in other ways it makes the 1423 01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:08.800 product seem more professional and and smooth. 1424 01:09:08.840 --> 01:09:08.960 You know. 1425 01:09:09.000 --> 01:09:10.880 Even the way Britt Baker turned her back in air, 1426 01:09:10.920 --> 01:09:12.640 the referee in brit Baker turned their back at an 1427 01:09:12.640 --> 01:09:15.680 awkward angle so she could be attacked by from behind 1428 01:09:17.319 --> 01:09:20.960 or not Brit who is her opponent, so Brick could 1429 01:09:20.960 --> 01:09:26.920 attack her from behindak he thank you, yes and and uh. 1430 01:09:27.560 --> 01:09:29.720 The referee raised her hand and they were standing at 1431 01:09:29.720 --> 01:09:32.520 an awkward angle so that Brick could attack them sideways 1432 01:09:32.560 --> 01:09:34.800 and not see it coming. It's like you'll never see 1433 01:09:34.800 --> 01:09:37.000 another hatch on AW where the rest are celebrate by 1434 01:09:37.039 --> 01:09:38.760 looking at a forty five degree angle away from the 1435 01:09:38.800 --> 01:09:41.439 hard camera. But they did it because they didn't think 1436 01:09:41.479 --> 01:09:44.119 to have Britt actually attack him from opposite the hard 1437 01:09:44.159 --> 01:09:47.159 camera from behind, and so you see, you know, and 1438 01:09:47.319 --> 01:09:49.359 whatever Kenny was doing when he set up however many 1439 01:09:49.359 --> 01:09:51.159 spots he did in last night's match, he's like, here's 1440 01:09:51.159 --> 01:09:53.119 my hand, here's my hand, here's my foot. Now now 1441 01:09:53.239 --> 01:09:55.159 kick me on the thigh. Like there's a lot of 1442 01:09:55.239 --> 01:09:57.479 things where if you're just objectively looking at it, that 1443 01:09:57.520 --> 01:10:01.920 stuff doesn't happen on double w W product because somebody backstage, 1444 01:10:01.960 --> 01:10:04.560 including Vince, is gonna yell at them, or Triple H 1445 01:10:04.560 --> 01:10:06.279 and NX he's gonna yell at him, or Terry Taylor 1446 01:10:06.359 --> 01:10:08.960 or whomever, gonna go that didn't look good, stop doing that. 1447 01:10:09.600 --> 01:10:11.960 And nobody's doing that in AW. I feel like there's 1448 01:10:11.960 --> 01:10:16.479 this bubble insulation to honest criticism because people are buying 1449 01:10:16.520 --> 01:10:17.159 their own press. 1450 01:10:18.159 --> 01:10:20.720 Yeah well said, yeah, all right. 1451 01:10:22.279 --> 01:10:27.720 Well, as far as the lashing angle goes, I thought 1452 01:10:27.880 --> 01:10:32.680 it worked really well. It was it a little self indulgent, 1453 01:10:32.720 --> 01:10:34.520 a little over the top. That's Cody, you know, And 1454 01:10:34.760 --> 01:10:38.199 I actually think you can say, you know, that's a 1455 01:10:38.239 --> 01:10:40.199 little too much, but I think it works for Cody, 1456 01:10:40.239 --> 01:10:42.800 and it's reflective. It is symptomatic of how seriously he 1457 01:10:42.800 --> 01:10:45.520 takes himself and I'm for that as long as there's 1458 01:10:45.520 --> 01:10:47.800 some introspection and you know, a willingness to listen to 1459 01:10:47.800 --> 01:10:50.840 some critiques or criticism. But I think when Cody's out there, 1460 01:10:50.920 --> 01:10:53.000 it's a major leagu product, and I think it's a 1461 01:10:53.119 --> 01:10:55.560 result of him being in WWE, frankly for a long 1462 01:10:55.600 --> 01:10:59.239 time and seeing how it works. And Jericho's segments are 1463 01:10:59.359 --> 01:11:01.479 really good because he's he's been around long enough to 1464 01:11:01.479 --> 01:11:03.680 see how this works on a major league level and 1465 01:11:04.000 --> 01:11:06.680 the other guys haven't been And I think sometimes that shows. 1466 01:11:08.079 --> 01:11:10.520 I think it does. Yeah, I do think. 1467 01:11:11.039 --> 01:11:13.319 I mean I laugh every time he makes his entrance 1468 01:11:13.359 --> 01:11:15.640 because it is key compared to some of the others, 1469 01:11:15.640 --> 01:11:17.760 and it's just so over the top. But he's a 1470 01:11:17.800 --> 01:11:20.279 top guy and you know, if someone's going to have 1471 01:11:20.279 --> 01:11:23.039 that entrance, it should be him. But it still does 1472 01:11:23.079 --> 01:11:26.600 crack me up. But the idea of that being self indulgent. 1473 01:11:26.840 --> 01:11:29.920 If anyone's really critiquing this too much, I just say, 1474 01:11:29.960 --> 01:11:32.000 go back and look at the crowd. When is the 1475 01:11:32.079 --> 01:11:35.840 last time you've seen a live crowd not just on 1476 01:11:35.880 --> 01:11:38.359 the main floor for the first couple of rows, but 1477 01:11:38.520 --> 01:11:43.800 for a twenty minute angle. People like with good seats 1478 01:11:44.159 --> 01:11:47.119 and you know, off the first level standing. I mean 1479 01:11:47.479 --> 01:11:50.800 people were standing throughout that segment. They were into this, 1480 01:11:51.439 --> 01:11:53.800 and I think that speaks volumes about it. I thought 1481 01:11:53.840 --> 01:11:56.399 it was really well done. Yeah, I mean there's there's. 1482 01:11:56.239 --> 01:11:57.319 Things I would tweak about it. 1483 01:11:57.600 --> 01:11:59.880 I think they should have done a better job of 1484 01:12:00.039 --> 01:12:03.920 communicating in advance that it's not a gimme that this 1485 01:12:04.079 --> 01:12:07.800 match happens, because I had that feeling washing it, you know, 1486 01:12:07.840 --> 01:12:10.079 going in, like, Okay, Cody's going to take his ten lashes. 1487 01:12:10.720 --> 01:12:13.560 They were telling the story that Cody's got to get 1488 01:12:13.560 --> 01:12:15.800 through this in order to get that match, but I 1489 01:12:15.880 --> 01:12:18.199 never really felt like they told that story in advance. 1490 01:12:18.239 --> 01:12:20.119 They kind of told it as it was happening. 1491 01:12:20.479 --> 01:12:22.479 No, that's a good point because there's a point where 1492 01:12:22.600 --> 01:12:24.720 Mgf's like, you know, give me your belt. I don't 1493 01:12:24.720 --> 01:12:26.960 want to waste mine on you, and everyone at home 1494 01:12:27.039 --> 01:12:29.399 is going, why would Cody listen to this jerk? Tell 1495 01:12:29.640 --> 01:12:31.640 MGF take off your own damn belt. But he can't 1496 01:12:31.680 --> 01:12:33.640 because as MGF yelled him, do you want this match 1497 01:12:33.720 --> 01:12:36.199 or not? And he yelled that as Cody was taking 1498 01:12:36.199 --> 01:12:37.479 the belt off. But it would have been you know, 1499 01:12:37.520 --> 01:12:39.600 maybe slightly better for Cody to hesitate, and then MGFF 1500 01:12:39.640 --> 01:12:41.079 to say do you want this match? And then Cody 1501 01:12:41.159 --> 01:12:43.800 kind of resigns himself to having to do what MGF says, 1502 01:12:44.119 --> 01:12:46.239 and then you're right. The announcers in the storyline and 1503 01:12:46.359 --> 01:12:48.079 MGF shouting at him is do you want this match 1504 01:12:48.159 --> 01:12:50.560 or not? He had to take all ten lashes for 1505 01:12:50.640 --> 01:12:52.359 the match to happen, and they could have done a better. 1506 01:12:52.279 --> 01:12:52.600 Job of that. 1507 01:12:52.600 --> 01:12:56.000 I think that's actually the best critique of how the 1508 01:12:56.039 --> 01:12:58.720 angle was built up and executed is just be a 1509 01:12:59.239 --> 01:13:00.359 little more clear of that. 1510 01:13:01.239 --> 01:13:03.720 But they really did leave me looking forward to the match, 1511 01:13:03.760 --> 01:13:03.840 you know. 1512 01:13:03.880 --> 01:13:07.920 I mean, it's just it's the guy took ten severe 1513 01:13:08.039 --> 01:13:12.920 lashes and he's taking him from a really really strong heel. 1514 01:13:13.600 --> 01:13:16.439 So I mean, and Cody is as over as anyone 1515 01:13:16.479 --> 01:13:18.439 with that audience. Yeah, I mean, how do you not 1516 01:13:18.479 --> 01:13:20.600 get into this? I think they did a hell of 1517 01:13:20.600 --> 01:13:21.680 a job of building this up. 1518 01:13:22.039 --> 01:13:28.039 Yeah. 1519 01:13:28.520 --> 01:13:31.880 I'm Kelly Wells, host of p WT Talks NXT, the 1520 01:13:31.920 --> 01:13:36.279 longest running NXT podcast Anywhere. Join me along with Nate Lindberg, 1521 01:13:36.359 --> 01:13:39.840 Bruce Lee, Hazelwood, and special guests live every Tuesday night, 1522 01:13:40.199 --> 01:13:42.920 just minutes after NXT, where we cover the good, the 1523 01:13:43.000 --> 01:13:45.039 bad and the ugly on the way to becoming a 1524 01:13:45.079 --> 01:13:48.239 star in WWE. Check us out live on YouTube or 1525 01:13:48.319 --> 01:13:50.800 stream later wherever you get your podcasts. 1526 01:13:58.920 --> 01:14:02.079 Moxley Jericho also a really good grade. I mean I 1527 01:14:02.159 --> 01:14:06.760 just saying one one annoyance in this. Yeah. 1528 01:14:06.840 --> 01:14:12.439 Yeah, Chris Jericho as good as he's been. So we 1529 01:14:12.479 --> 01:14:17.119 see his his sidekick Santana gets stabbed in the eye 1530 01:14:17.159 --> 01:14:23.039 with car keys, and Jericho goes cutesy on it and says, 1531 01:14:23.039 --> 01:14:25.800 who would do this? That's something that you're going to 1532 01:14:25.840 --> 01:14:29.239 get laughs with and that I didn't when you're sitting 1533 01:14:29.239 --> 01:14:31.520 when a guy's sitting there selling that his eye may 1534 01:14:31.520 --> 01:14:33.720 have been gouged out. I just didn't think that was 1535 01:14:33.720 --> 01:14:36.119 the time for Jericho to get all cute with it, 1536 01:14:36.319 --> 01:14:38.840 you know, being hypocritical, because he did the same thing 1537 01:14:38.840 --> 01:14:41.000 to mox Ley and so he says, who would do this? 1538 01:14:41.479 --> 01:14:45.119 I didn't care for that. That did irk me watching it. 1539 01:14:45.159 --> 01:14:47.039 And it's too bad because I've like, damn near everything 1540 01:14:47.079 --> 01:14:48.520 Jericho has done in a w so far. 1541 01:14:48.840 --> 01:14:52.720 Well, i'd like to hear the announcers just rebut retort, hey, 1542 01:14:52.880 --> 01:14:56.039 you you who are you to say that? And then 1543 01:14:56.079 --> 01:14:58.600 it becomes less cute and more. The babyface anouncer calls 1544 01:14:58.600 --> 01:15:02.600 out Jericho on try to gaslight people with an alternate reality. 1545 01:15:03.720 --> 01:15:05.880 Yeah, I just I don't think he should have went there. 1546 01:15:05.960 --> 01:15:06.479 I mean, just. 1547 01:15:08.039 --> 01:15:11.039 Counter it went against the tone of that angle, and 1548 01:15:11.600 --> 01:15:14.920 I didn't care for it for that reason. But I 1549 01:15:14.960 --> 01:15:18.359 did like the promo that Santana delivered. It's kind of 1550 01:15:18.359 --> 01:15:20.960 funny just kind of seeing some of the reactions today 1551 01:15:20.960 --> 01:15:23.680 from people that are so surprised that he cut a 1552 01:15:23.720 --> 01:15:25.880 good promo. It wasn't even like one of his best promos. 1553 01:15:26.199 --> 01:15:27.920 He was on you when he was given the mic. 1554 01:15:27.960 --> 01:15:30.720 An impact wrestling wasn't often, but boy, toward the end 1555 01:15:30.720 --> 01:15:32.640 there and they were getting the mic more. He was 1556 01:15:32.680 --> 01:15:35.279 on fire. And Ortiz is a good talker too, and 1557 01:15:35.319 --> 01:15:37.880 I don't think people realize that. And that's something you know, 1558 01:15:38.039 --> 01:15:40.600 I've been saying since they signed, like, I don't want 1559 01:15:40.600 --> 01:15:43.079 to see these guys as henchmen. They can speak for themselves. Yes, 1560 01:15:43.159 --> 01:15:45.920 con ended a lot of talking, but they can both talk. 1561 01:15:46.119 --> 01:15:48.720 And so I thought that was a good promo. But 1562 01:15:48.720 --> 01:15:51.800 if people were impressed by that, sit tight, I mean, 1563 01:15:51.920 --> 01:15:53.479 you're gonna be a lot more impressed when this guy 1564 01:15:53.520 --> 01:15:55.319 really has something he could sink his teeth into. 1565 01:15:55.479 --> 01:15:57.520 Early on with AW I think one of the defenses 1566 01:15:57.560 --> 01:16:00.359 for not letting people show everything they could do we're 1567 01:16:00.359 --> 01:16:02.039 featuring them was well, hey, we're in this for the 1568 01:16:02.039 --> 01:16:03.960 long haul. You know, we got to save some things. 1569 01:16:04.479 --> 01:16:06.520 And I was thinking, oh, you know, they're saving Kenny's 1570 01:16:06.520 --> 01:16:10.239 signature singles, matches and aren't just walking brawls for you know, 1571 01:16:10.520 --> 01:16:13.239 at some point, they're saving really introducing the bucks to 1572 01:16:13.279 --> 01:16:16.079 a national audience and what they're all about. At another stage, 1573 01:16:16.319 --> 01:16:19.000 and sent Ortiz, You're like, well, maybe they're saving that. 1574 01:16:19.039 --> 01:16:22.560 There's a time to do it. It's not now, but 1575 01:16:22.640 --> 01:16:25.520 it'll come, and enough time has gone by where you're 1576 01:16:25.760 --> 01:16:28.800 I'm starting to wonder are they saving stuff or is 1577 01:16:28.800 --> 01:16:32.680 it just not crossing their mind that they haven't done 1578 01:16:32.760 --> 01:16:34.720 this yet and it would be a good idea to 1579 01:16:34.880 --> 01:16:37.800 do it, you know, in terms of not to be 1580 01:16:38.039 --> 01:16:39.920 not to get on a Kenny discussion, but you know, 1581 01:16:40.039 --> 01:16:42.439 have Kenny Omega have two or three matches. So these 1582 01:16:42.479 --> 01:16:45.119 people who I hear from often who are like, I 1583 01:16:45.159 --> 01:16:47.560 heard how great Kenny was. Never watched his new Japan stuff, 1584 01:16:47.800 --> 01:16:50.359 just didn't But now he's on a weekly national cable 1585 01:16:50.399 --> 01:16:53.399 series with a bunch of English speaking promos in a 1586 01:16:53.439 --> 01:16:55.960 format that I'm more used to, and I'm absolutely willing 1587 01:16:55.960 --> 01:16:58.199 to buy all in on this. I don't get him. 1588 01:16:58.239 --> 01:17:01.880 I haven't seen what he does yet, and so, you know, 1589 01:17:02.359 --> 01:17:04.079 and then sent ten ortis, let's kind of lead into 1590 01:17:04.119 --> 01:17:06.640 that is their reputation and their body of work is great, 1591 01:17:07.399 --> 01:17:10.479 and they're just standing in the background. They are, you know, 1592 01:17:10.520 --> 01:17:13.439 the new version of Rowan and Harper standing behind bray Wyatt, 1593 01:17:13.479 --> 01:17:16.119 not getting really any time to, you know, for a 1594 01:17:16.159 --> 01:17:17.399 harp of to show what he can do, and he's 1595 01:17:17.560 --> 01:17:20.399 being able to utilize. At some point it's not well, 1596 01:17:20.399 --> 01:17:22.399 we're saving it for when it matters. At some point 1597 01:17:22.439 --> 01:17:24.159 you start to worry do they even know what they 1598 01:17:24.199 --> 01:17:27.279 have or are they too preoccupied with certain things, including 1599 01:17:27.319 --> 01:17:30.479 themselves and not putting the time and effort into letting 1600 01:17:30.479 --> 01:17:32.560 these other guys showcase what they can do. And it 1601 01:17:32.680 --> 01:17:34.279 is nice to see the beginning of that now with 1602 01:17:34.359 --> 01:17:35.560 last night's show with senten on. 1603 01:17:35.640 --> 01:17:39.239 RTIs definitely you know, I think I can get it 1604 01:17:39.279 --> 01:17:42.079 with them. I think people know, Hey, they're really good wrestlers. 1605 01:17:42.079 --> 01:17:44.600 They have these really good matches with the pinting On 1606 01:17:44.680 --> 01:17:47.399 and Phoenix and all of that. This isn't These guys 1607 01:17:47.439 --> 01:17:49.680 were all over WWE television. How did you miss this? 1608 01:17:49.960 --> 01:17:54.159 They did some promos on Impact and I watch it. 1609 01:17:54.399 --> 01:17:56.640 I don't know how many other people are actually watching it, 1610 01:17:56.640 --> 01:17:57.960 and so I can see that one got to slipping 1611 01:17:58.000 --> 01:17:58.520 through the crack. 1612 01:17:59.479 --> 01:18:03.199 Yeah, but yeah, I think they're doing a nice job 1613 01:18:03.199 --> 01:18:06.359 setting up the top handful of matches at Revolutions. 1614 01:18:06.399 --> 01:18:08.840 So and by the way, hopefully we'll get that Kenny 1615 01:18:08.880 --> 01:18:11.640 match now that they've announced the Ironman match, the pack 1616 01:18:11.840 --> 01:18:15.199 exactly we need to see that. I'm totally with the 1617 01:18:15.199 --> 01:18:17.039 people who have just kind of been underwhelmed so far 1618 01:18:17.079 --> 01:18:19.680 by him in aew and I've seen his work in Japan. 1619 01:18:20.159 --> 01:18:22.600 He's better than this, and we just were waiting for 1620 01:18:22.640 --> 01:18:25.439 that match, and quite frankly, the first time they had 1621 01:18:25.439 --> 01:18:28.359 it was underwhelming, and I know they weren't happy with it. 1622 01:18:28.439 --> 01:18:30.960 They ended up kind of running out of time. So 1623 01:18:31.000 --> 01:18:33.520 we're still waiting for that real standout match. And I'm 1624 01:18:33.560 --> 01:18:35.760 hoping with this being framed as a thirty minute Iron 1625 01:18:35.840 --> 01:18:37.279 Man match, that's what they have in mind. 1626 01:18:37.720 --> 01:18:38.000 I just do. 1627 01:18:38.199 --> 01:18:42.119 Since they sat down with a twenty week chart and said, 1628 01:18:42.920 --> 01:18:45.520 all right, here's our you know, top six acts, and 1629 01:18:45.800 --> 01:18:47.920 here's how we're going to make sure that by the 1630 01:18:47.920 --> 01:18:50.880 time we get to you know, the third, fourth, fifth month, 1631 01:18:51.479 --> 01:18:53.920 after twenty weeks of programming, that these are all stars 1632 01:18:54.119 --> 01:18:57.600 because we've deliberately plotted out how we're going to feature 1633 01:18:57.640 --> 01:19:01.880 them and get them in shine a spotlight on their strengths. 1634 01:19:01.920 --> 01:19:04.840 And that's just I'm sorry, but pointing a camera at 1635 01:19:04.880 --> 01:19:06.439 the ring and having the young bucks go out there 1636 01:19:06.479 --> 01:19:10.319 and do dives and kicks is going to absolutely satisfy 1637 01:19:10.359 --> 01:19:12.039 a big part of the fan base, but it is 1638 01:19:12.079 --> 01:19:15.439 absolutely not enough to bring in the maximum possible fan 1639 01:19:15.479 --> 01:19:17.720 base for that for that team and what they can do. 1640 01:19:18.239 --> 01:19:22.239 And Kenny, I mean, what do you point to with 1641 01:19:22.359 --> 01:19:26.119 him as the signature usage of television to get him 1642 01:19:26.159 --> 01:19:28.199 over as a start to this new audience of a 1643 01:19:28.239 --> 01:19:30.359 million people? And there's over a million people watching once 1644 01:19:30.399 --> 01:19:33.640 you add seven day viewership here. That's a lot of 1645 01:19:33.680 --> 01:19:35.479 people who never watch Kenny in New Japan. And what 1646 01:19:35.560 --> 01:19:37.399 have they done other than kind of you know, ex 1647 01:19:37.439 --> 01:19:39.640 caliber saying oh, you know, the regardless of grad he 1648 01:19:39.640 --> 01:19:40.960 was the rest of the year a couple of years ago, 1649 01:19:41.600 --> 01:19:44.359 people want to see it. So I just that's it. 1650 01:19:44.399 --> 01:19:46.720 Justsppoint at AWS. I just don't think they sat down 1651 01:19:46.560 --> 01:19:50.279 and really plot it out. I think they're just kind 1652 01:19:50.279 --> 01:19:52.239 of there's a sense of I hear about this long 1653 01:19:52.279 --> 01:19:54.159 term planning, and I think there's some long term planning 1654 01:19:54.159 --> 01:19:57.279 with storylines, but not the marketing of the acts and 1655 01:19:57.319 --> 01:20:00.720 doing so in a sophisticated way with you know, like 1656 01:20:00.760 --> 01:20:03.439 even the last about on NXT, the finn Baller Johnny 1657 01:20:03.520 --> 01:20:06.119 Arganda segment, the split screen interview, you gotta find I 1658 01:20:06.159 --> 01:20:07.800 don't think I should say you gotta, but I think 1659 01:20:08.119 --> 01:20:09.680 it helps you if you shake up the ways that 1660 01:20:09.760 --> 01:20:12.039 you present, how your talent talks to each other in 1661 01:20:12.079 --> 01:20:14.479 front of a match. And NXT has all these different 1662 01:20:14.479 --> 01:20:18.039 ways in W two, and all kinds of companies have, 1663 01:20:18.439 --> 01:20:20.239 but there's all these different ways to do it, and 1664 01:20:20.720 --> 01:20:23.680 I just don't sense there's that visionary in AW who's 1665 01:20:23.920 --> 01:20:27.399 really excited about that and putting this polished product out 1666 01:20:27.399 --> 01:20:29.640 every week. I think there's a sense of, you know, 1667 01:20:29.920 --> 01:20:32.079 we're gonna make this, as Cody said, a two hour 1668 01:20:32.159 --> 01:20:33.800 party in the ring and aim the camera at the ring, 1669 01:20:33.880 --> 01:20:37.239 and some weeks are better than others, but there's not enough, 1670 01:20:37.319 --> 01:20:39.640 as I say, kind of elbow grease to add kind 1671 01:20:39.640 --> 01:20:43.159 of pizaz and shake up the way the wrestlers are presented, 1672 01:20:43.319 --> 01:20:45.000 and you know, like a little bit of Darby Allen 1673 01:20:45.039 --> 01:20:47.399 with a flame thrower. That's sort of what I mean 1674 01:20:47.520 --> 01:20:49.840 is just show us who these people are a little 1675 01:20:49.840 --> 01:20:50.199 bit more. 1676 01:20:50.760 --> 01:20:52.199 Yeah, I can, for the love of a guy, can 1677 01:20:52.319 --> 01:20:54.680 the best Friends do something beyond Hey? They hugg wants 1678 01:20:54.720 --> 01:20:57.600 a match and they're just one example of just how 1679 01:20:57.640 --> 01:21:00.479 thin some of the character development's been. And they've been 1680 01:21:00.479 --> 01:21:02.199 doing that since Ring of Honor. They've been doing it 1681 01:21:02.239 --> 01:21:04.920 since before Ring of Honor and nothing has changed. And 1682 01:21:05.760 --> 01:21:08.279 you know they're maybe they're not going to be, you know, 1683 01:21:08.319 --> 01:21:10.359 the faces of your company, but they should still have 1684 01:21:10.760 --> 01:21:12.960 and they're just one example. There should be more depth 1685 01:21:13.000 --> 01:21:14.760 than that when it comes to their characters. 1686 01:21:14.880 --> 01:21:16.760 Chuck Taylor's got a great Twitter feed, He's got a 1687 01:21:16.800 --> 01:21:21.359 personality and you have to read into his body language 1688 01:21:21.399 --> 01:21:23.960 walking to the ring to have any clue what he's 1689 01:21:23.960 --> 01:21:26.399 all about. Or you can watch you know, the Road 1690 01:21:26.399 --> 01:21:30.560 to Special and find out you know about his history 1691 01:21:30.560 --> 01:21:33.920 a little bit. But you shouldn't have to, right is 1692 01:21:33.920 --> 01:21:36.239 that the thing? You know? You shouldn't have to On 1693 01:21:36.239 --> 01:21:39.640 the NXT front, what did you, Well, I don't want 1694 01:21:39.640 --> 01:21:40.960 to some people like you're bearing the lead on the 1695 01:21:41.000 --> 01:21:44.079 flag ship alveteen dreamas back. What'd you think of his 1696 01:21:44.159 --> 01:21:44.880 return last night? 1697 01:21:45.560 --> 01:21:46.079 I liked it. 1698 01:21:46.079 --> 01:21:48.960 I thought it was energetic, you know, a little bit 1699 01:21:49.199 --> 01:21:52.159 alread he's beating up four guys at once, but so 1700 01:21:52.319 --> 01:21:54.319 be it, you know it was I thought it came 1701 01:21:54.399 --> 01:21:59.079 off well. I was thinking killer Cross maybe when they 1702 01:21:59.079 --> 01:22:01.199 started teasing it lest lat week and then and Jake 1703 01:22:01.239 --> 01:22:03.560 Burnett pointed out, like no with the three and the 1704 01:22:04.039 --> 01:22:07.039 glasses anywhere, like ah, So I did kind of figure, 1705 01:22:07.159 --> 01:22:09.359 you know, thanks to Jake, I kind of had an 1706 01:22:09.399 --> 01:22:11.920 idea of where this was going. So I wasn't surprised 1707 01:22:11.920 --> 01:22:13.399 by it, but I thought it was well done. I 1708 01:22:13.439 --> 01:22:16.199 had the crowd seemed to like it. You know, he 1709 01:22:16.359 --> 01:22:19.439 was kind of all over the place, but it was 1710 01:22:19.479 --> 01:22:23.359 a high energy return for the Albertine Dream. 1711 01:22:23.479 --> 01:22:26.159 Anywhere worth going is worth going in good boots. Find 1712 01:22:26.199 --> 01:22:30.239 your perfect pair with Takova's. There's a style for every style. 1713 01:22:30.680 --> 01:22:34.439 Takovis crafts quality Western boots for everyone from generational ranchers 1714 01:22:34.479 --> 01:22:37.560 and lifelong cowboys to first time boot buyers. Born in 1715 01:22:37.600 --> 01:22:40.359 Texas in twenty fifteen, to Covis makes it easy for 1716 01:22:40.439 --> 01:22:43.560 anyone to find their perfect boot. Everyone at Takovia's boots 1717 01:22:43.560 --> 01:22:47.439 are handcrafted with over two hundred meticulous steps for broken 1718 01:22:47.600 --> 01:22:50.880 in comfort right out of the box. 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Plus, 1728 01:23:18.640 --> 01:23:21.239 with Tacovia's best in the West guarantee, you'll get free 1729 01:23:21.279 --> 01:23:25.159 returns in exchanges for thirty days right now. Get ten 1730 01:23:25.159 --> 01:23:27.359 percent off at to covis dot com slash wade when 1731 01:23:27.399 --> 01:23:30.399 you sign up for email in texts that's ten percent 1732 01:23:30.479 --> 01:23:34.439 off at tacovis dot com slash Wade. That's t E 1733 01:23:34.600 --> 01:23:40.000 c o v as dot com slash Wade see the 1734 01:23:40.000 --> 01:23:45.680 site for details. To Covis, point your toes West. When 1735 01:23:45.720 --> 01:23:51.439 we talk about NXT's ratings compared to AW in September, 1736 01:23:51.479 --> 01:23:53.840 we were talking about velveteen Dream being a significant player 1737 01:23:53.880 --> 01:23:57.000 who would factor in, and he hasn't yet and now 1738 01:23:57.039 --> 01:24:00.439 he's back. Is he somebody who when we Because I 1739 01:24:00.439 --> 01:24:03.359 think the AW star power at the top has been 1740 01:24:03.399 --> 01:24:07.119 stronger than NXT's in a kind of an objective way. 1741 01:24:07.119 --> 01:24:10.039 If you're not already super invested in Tomaso Champa or Cargano, 1742 01:24:10.760 --> 01:24:12.399 even when you had Finn Ballard to the mix, I 1743 01:24:12.399 --> 01:24:14.039 think the AW stars and part of it is the 1744 01:24:14.079 --> 01:24:16.880 setting and the novelty of the new company. But Cody 1745 01:24:16.960 --> 01:24:20.239 and Jericho and Moxie, I just think their top guys 1746 01:24:20.479 --> 01:24:24.840 this far in have seemed like bigger stars, and now 1747 01:24:25.560 --> 01:24:28.560 NXT is closing that gap. You know, Charlotte's sort of 1748 01:24:28.600 --> 01:24:30.960 a paying a visit. We'll see how how long that is. 1749 01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:35.279 But Finn Ballard being there and now having velveteen Dream back, 1750 01:24:35.479 --> 01:24:37.680 I mean, do you agree with that premise, Jason? That 1751 01:24:38.159 --> 01:24:43.199 aew to the general public who's deciding between two brands, 1752 01:24:43.279 --> 01:24:46.439 especially if they're WWB loyalists or laps fans to a degree, 1753 01:24:46.800 --> 01:24:50.399 looks at AW Dynamite and sees Jericho and Moxley and 1754 01:24:50.479 --> 01:24:53.920 Cody perhaps in that order, and says those are bigger 1755 01:24:53.960 --> 01:24:58.079 stars than NXT's top stars of Adam cole Or collectively 1756 01:24:58.119 --> 01:25:03.840 Undisputed Era and Tomasso Champa, Johnny Garcano, even Finn Balor 1757 01:25:03.960 --> 01:25:07.319 and now velveteen Dream coming on the scene. I just 1758 01:25:07.319 --> 01:25:09.000 think if you look at the top three, four X 1759 01:25:09.079 --> 01:25:11.960 and AW, it probably has an advantage. 1760 01:25:11.520 --> 01:25:14.840 In terms of the general public perception probably and I 1761 01:25:14.840 --> 01:25:18.199 think a really big advantage that it has is those 1762 01:25:18.239 --> 01:25:19.880 guys are there's that cool. 1763 01:25:19.680 --> 01:25:23.039 Factor with that younger demographic that. 1764 01:25:23.560 --> 01:25:28.680 Those guys, Kenny Omega, the young bucks that those guys have, 1765 01:25:28.920 --> 01:25:33.039 that they've managed to tap into that younger demographic that 1766 01:25:33.199 --> 01:25:37.199 NXT just for whatever reason, hasn't quite clicked with. I've 1767 01:25:37.199 --> 01:25:39.399 talked about this a little bit, my theory on it 1768 01:25:39.920 --> 01:25:42.279 in part. I mean, there's it's not just any one reason, 1769 01:25:42.319 --> 01:25:44.920 but I think some of it is every generation kind 1770 01:25:44.920 --> 01:25:47.760 of wants their own thing and wrestling. You don't really 1771 01:25:47.800 --> 01:25:50.359 get it with companies per se, because you know, I mean, 1772 01:25:50.760 --> 01:25:53.119 there's not that many that come and go at least 1773 01:25:53.159 --> 01:25:56.920 on a national stage. But you see it with wrestlers, 1774 01:25:57.239 --> 01:25:59.920 you see it with you. If your dad was a 1775 01:26:00.039 --> 01:26:02.439 big Stone Cold Steve Austin fan, you might appreciate him, 1776 01:26:02.479 --> 01:26:04.800 but you're gonna want your own guy that kind of thing, 1777 01:26:05.079 --> 01:26:07.680 and I think AW has some of that going for 1778 01:26:07.800 --> 01:26:08.600 them where they don't. 1779 01:26:08.680 --> 01:26:09.000 NXT. 1780 01:26:09.800 --> 01:26:12.079 It would be reaching this same audience if there was 1781 01:26:12.119 --> 01:26:15.399 no such thing as AEW, because that would become their thing. 1782 01:26:15.439 --> 01:26:16.880 And I think it was for a lot of people. 1783 01:26:16.960 --> 01:26:21.600 But now that AW exists, it's new. I think people 1784 01:26:21.640 --> 01:26:25.520 appreciate that. I think they like seeing something start in 1785 01:26:25.640 --> 01:26:28.439 the beginning that they can call their own that isn't 1786 01:26:28.479 --> 01:26:29.960 a Vince mcman run company. 1787 01:26:31.479 --> 01:26:35.760 I think that NXT and AW Beach have a cool factor. 1788 01:26:37.239 --> 01:26:40.520 NXT is handcuffed a little bit by being under the 1789 01:26:40.600 --> 01:26:44.159 WWE corporate umbrella, but the perception of Triple H and 1790 01:26:44.279 --> 01:26:49.800 Company having an independence, and frankly Jericho's pushing fifty, Cody's 1791 01:26:49.840 --> 01:26:52.600 in his mid thirties, Moxley's had a really nice five 1792 01:26:52.600 --> 01:26:56.880 plus year run on top. You look at NXT, velveteen Dream, 1793 01:26:57.279 --> 01:27:04.199 Tomaso Champa, Keith Lee, Matt Riddle, Adam Cole, just Undisputter. 1794 01:27:04.319 --> 01:27:07.520 In general, that's actually kind of more the if you 1795 01:27:07.560 --> 01:27:10.359 want your own generation of wrestlers, you can make the 1796 01:27:10.359 --> 01:27:15.159 case NXT has room to grow in that demographic because 1797 01:27:15.640 --> 01:27:19.119 those are actually wrestlers who haven't made evented WrestleManias in 1798 01:27:19.239 --> 01:27:23.840 wwepay Produce before, whereas you know, aw IS is built 1799 01:27:23.880 --> 01:27:26.239 around at least two guys who have in Jericho and Moxley, 1800 01:27:26.279 --> 01:27:28.279 with with certainly Cody being in that mix two and 1801 01:27:28.840 --> 01:27:30.760 Pop being an X Doo Twoe guy. So I mean, 1802 01:27:30.800 --> 01:27:32.279 I think you can make a case either way, which 1803 01:27:32.279 --> 01:27:35.319 is why it's not a complete slam dunk. I mean, 1804 01:27:35.359 --> 01:27:37.159 in the male eighteen to thirty four demo last night, 1805 01:27:37.239 --> 01:27:39.880 n XT to a point one eight aew one point 1806 01:27:39.880 --> 01:27:41.920 twenty nine. That's not a two to one or three 1807 01:27:41.960 --> 01:27:44.720 to one margin. And the lead isn't that much better 1808 01:27:45.800 --> 01:27:47.920 when you add the thirty five to forty nine year olds, 1809 01:27:48.840 --> 01:27:50.760 or the lead's not that much different point five zero 1810 01:27:50.840 --> 01:27:53.800 to point three zero. So there's actually a slightly bigger 1811 01:27:53.880 --> 01:27:57.079 lead for a w among the thirty five to forty 1812 01:27:57.159 --> 01:27:59.760 nine year old males than there is among eighteen to 1813 01:27:59.760 --> 01:28:02.560 thirty four, And I think that is because of the 1814 01:28:02.560 --> 01:28:04.840 age of Jericho when Moxley and Cody, so they have 1815 01:28:04.880 --> 01:28:08.039 a cool factor in youth with Samy Gavara and Darby 1816 01:28:08.079 --> 01:28:10.600 Allen and the Young Bucks for that matter. 1817 01:28:10.560 --> 01:28:14.119 Jurassic Express, Orange Cassidy. Yeah. 1818 01:28:14.119 --> 01:28:16.079 I mean, so for everyone you throw out from NXT, 1819 01:28:16.439 --> 01:28:18.680 I think you can go deeper on the AEW card 1820 01:28:18.720 --> 01:28:21.000 and say, you know, they still they have that same upsick. 1821 01:28:21.720 --> 01:28:24.399 Yeah, so, I Mike, I guess kind of the point 1822 01:28:24.439 --> 01:28:26.880 I'm getting at is it's not a clear cut advantage 1823 01:28:26.920 --> 01:28:29.399 in both ways. There's just differences between the two of them. 1824 01:28:29.800 --> 01:28:33.479 But if both shows just go forward with what they have, 1825 01:28:34.279 --> 01:28:37.119 they're not Neither roster looks like it's in risk of 1826 01:28:37.159 --> 01:28:39.000 being stale in the next year or two. I think 1827 01:28:39.039 --> 01:28:42.319 aw's perception of pushing their top guys better than WWE 1828 01:28:42.319 --> 01:28:45.159 did and Jericho when Moxley and Cody are in a 1829 01:28:45.159 --> 01:28:48.880 better position than they were elsewhere, and NXT just is 1830 01:28:48.920 --> 01:28:52.039 a really really well put together, well booked show with 1831 01:28:52.760 --> 01:28:55.079 guys in their prime or entering their prime. So it 1832 01:28:55.159 --> 01:28:57.039 is a fun matchup in that way. And both shows 1833 01:28:57.119 --> 01:28:58.800 ratings went up last night, you know, nine hundred and 1834 01:28:58.800 --> 01:29:01.720 twenty eight thousand, AW up one hundred thousand from the 1835 01:29:01.720 --> 01:29:04.760 week before in live and same day viewership, and then 1836 01:29:05.079 --> 01:29:08.199 NXT up from seven hundred twelve to seven seventy, although 1837 01:29:08.199 --> 01:29:11.439 that seven seventy is tied with two weeks ago and 1838 01:29:11.479 --> 01:29:14.159 the nine twenty eight is below where AAW was three 1839 01:29:14.199 --> 01:29:15.960 weeks ago, so it's not like this big boom, but 1840 01:29:16.000 --> 01:29:17.760 there was a decline for a couple of weeks, and 1841 01:29:17.840 --> 01:29:22.239 both shows have rebounded in part with obviously NXT pushing 1842 01:29:22.319 --> 01:29:25.319 Charlotte showing up and AW. What do you think is 1843 01:29:25.359 --> 01:29:28.840 it attributes to dropping for four weeks in a row 1844 01:29:29.039 --> 01:29:31.079 at the beginning of the year and then actually five 1845 01:29:31.079 --> 01:29:32.479 weeks in a row they dropped. They went from nine 1846 01:29:32.520 --> 01:29:35.079 to sixty seven to nine forty seven to ninety one 1847 01:29:35.119 --> 01:29:37.439 to eight seventy one to twenty eight. I look at 1848 01:29:37.439 --> 01:29:40.319 those numbers, it's a little concerning if I'm AAW. They 1849 01:29:40.359 --> 01:29:42.079 rebounded a little bit or quite a bit in the 1850 01:29:42.520 --> 01:29:45.880 three day delayed viewership, so that can kind of dampen 1851 01:29:45.920 --> 01:29:48.439 some of the concern But now a good rebound in 1852 01:29:48.479 --> 01:29:50.920 live viewership, to me, that's encouraging. What do you think 1853 01:29:50.920 --> 01:29:52.880 about Is there something about last night show that did that? 1854 01:29:53.039 --> 01:29:55.800 Was it the ten lashes? Was that the selling point? 1855 01:29:56.000 --> 01:29:59.199 I think people love a good public whippen. I don't 1856 01:29:59.199 --> 01:30:00.880 even know who else this up too. 1857 01:30:01.039 --> 01:30:01.680 Yeah, I ended up. 1858 01:30:01.800 --> 01:30:03.479 I haven't been able to listen to h I know 1859 01:30:03.600 --> 01:30:05.319 Jake was on the show with you, and I was 1860 01:30:05.319 --> 01:30:07.239 only able to listen to a portion of it before 1861 01:30:07.279 --> 01:30:08.920 Jake and I started talking today, so I don't know 1862 01:30:08.920 --> 01:30:10.079 if he said this on here. 1863 01:30:10.399 --> 01:30:14.600 He labeled it the Passion of the Cody phenomenal. 1864 01:30:14.840 --> 01:30:18.119 Yes, yes, so yeah, I'm curious. I will look at 1865 01:30:18.720 --> 01:30:21.239 minute by minutes when those become available and see if 1866 01:30:21.239 --> 01:30:24.720 there was kind of a crescendo at the end. Not 1867 01:30:24.800 --> 01:30:26.479 that NXT did and deliver a big main event with 1868 01:30:26.520 --> 01:30:28.359 a nice payoff as we're talking about with Felvetein Dream 1869 01:30:28.359 --> 01:30:33.239 at the end, but yeah, uhing interesting numbers, And I 1870 01:30:33.239 --> 01:30:34.760 think for people who just want to see both shows 1871 01:30:34.760 --> 01:30:38.600 succeed on Wednesday and the networks to be happy. Because 1872 01:30:38.640 --> 01:30:40.359 as much as we spent a lot of time talking 1873 01:30:40.359 --> 01:30:43.239 about the business side and business strategies and distribution models 1874 01:30:43.239 --> 01:30:45.720 for network content and pay per views, I think in 1875 01:30:45.760 --> 01:30:48.199 the immediate what people listening to us mostly care about 1876 01:30:48.840 --> 01:30:50.760 is is there good wrestling that they can watch as 1877 01:30:50.760 --> 01:30:54.119 a pastime on Monday Wednesday And Fridays, and you know 1878 01:30:54.199 --> 01:30:57.319 tuesdays to a degree too, And I think viewership not 1879 01:30:57.399 --> 01:30:59.479 dropping another week in a row, but actually going up 1880 01:30:59.520 --> 01:31:05.600 significantly shows nobody. We're seeing a longer set of data 1881 01:31:05.640 --> 01:31:08.760 now that makes even a five week downward trend like 1882 01:31:08.800 --> 01:31:11.880 AW had seem less alarming, especially when you get the 1883 01:31:11.880 --> 01:31:14.119 plus three numbers and you realize even if people don't 1884 01:31:14.159 --> 01:31:15.760 watch it live, they tend to catch up within a 1885 01:31:15.760 --> 01:31:16.319 few days. 1886 01:31:20.800 --> 01:31:24.359 On Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClelland we host Wrestling 1887 01:31:24.359 --> 01:31:26.680 Coast to Coast, where we scour the wrestling scene to 1888 01:31:26.680 --> 01:31:28.760 find the best wrestling from the smallest places. 1889 01:31:29.000 --> 01:31:31.840 There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling 1890 01:31:31.880 --> 01:31:34.039 Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and 1891 01:31:34.079 --> 01:31:36.520 women who could be big time stars in a few years. 1892 01:31:36.800 --> 01:31:38.840 There are plenty of podcasts to voters at w W 1893 01:31:39.039 --> 01:31:42.079 and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums 1894 01:31:42.119 --> 01:31:44.159 local wrestling hotspots around the country. 1895 01:31:44.479 --> 01:31:46.359 We can't wait to help you find the true hidden 1896 01:31:46.399 --> 01:31:48.640 gyms of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris 1897 01:31:48.680 --> 01:31:50.680 complain about bad referees. 1898 01:31:50.520 --> 01:31:52.439 And justin bemoaning Dog pole Fins. 1899 01:31:52.600 --> 01:31:55.039 Don't forget my feudal search to see a Blue Thunderbomb 1900 01:31:55.079 --> 01:31:55.640 win a match. 1901 01:31:56.039 --> 01:31:57.119 How can I like? 1902 01:31:57.199 --> 01:31:59.760 The name says we cover the hottest independent promotions from 1903 01:31:59.760 --> 01:32:03.119 morale the country, so just as Prestige Action, West Coast, 1904 01:32:03.119 --> 01:32:05.239 Pro Revolver and Beyond Wrestling. 1905 01:32:05.520 --> 01:32:07.960 Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much to wrestling. 1906 01:32:08.119 --> 01:32:10.399 No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Worcester. Oh right. 1907 01:32:10.640 --> 01:32:12.840 Our show is part of the PW Torch Daily Cast 1908 01:32:12.840 --> 01:32:16.000 lineup and typically drops on Thursdays, so it's PW Torch 1909 01:32:16.000 --> 01:32:18.560 in your podcast app. Has subscribed to the PW Torch 1910 01:32:18.640 --> 01:32:22.119 Daily Cast or stream our shows directly from PW touch 1911 01:32:22.159 --> 01:32:25.720 dot com. Find full details on the PW Torchdailycast lineup 1912 01:32:25.840 --> 01:32:34.520 at PW touchdailycast dot com. 1913 01:32:34.560 --> 01:32:38.119 How frustrated do you think Triple H, Shawn Michaels and 1914 01:32:38.119 --> 01:32:40.039 the Folks are an NXT because I mean, I'm watching 1915 01:32:40.079 --> 01:32:45.680 that show and almost we get a weekly there. It's 1916 01:32:45.840 --> 01:32:49.760 very difficult for me to find misses in my weekly 1917 01:32:49.840 --> 01:32:54.840 hit list. It's a very crisp, well booked show with 1918 01:32:55.199 --> 01:32:58.239 really good wrestling, and they've given away it seems like, 1919 01:32:58.279 --> 01:33:01.720 you know, they're not giving away tons of that're giving 1920 01:33:01.720 --> 01:33:04.760 away enough and they're still behind. 1921 01:33:06.079 --> 01:33:12.840 I think the arena setting is really interesting. If aw 1922 01:33:12.960 --> 01:33:15.359 went on the road for six weeks and they just 1923 01:33:15.680 --> 01:33:18.600 they just called it, I'm sorry, did I say, yeah, 1924 01:33:18.640 --> 01:33:21.000 nxtus on the road for six weeks. If they went 1925 01:33:21.079 --> 01:33:22.840 on the road and they just said, it's a spring tour. 1926 01:33:23.199 --> 01:33:25.600 We're hitting you know, six of our favorite you know smart, 1927 01:33:25.640 --> 01:33:27.439 we're hitting six more. I don't say favorite, you know 1928 01:33:27.520 --> 01:33:29.640 we're hitting six markets. Uh, We're gonna go on the 1929 01:33:29.680 --> 01:33:31.199 road for six weeks. But put an end date on 1930 01:33:31.239 --> 01:33:32.560 it so that you can say face if you don't 1931 01:33:32.560 --> 01:33:34.560 sell tickets or it takes a lot of papering, But 1932 01:33:34.680 --> 01:33:36.680 just do a six week thing in March or April. 1933 01:33:38.319 --> 01:33:42.800 And I wonder what would happen to viewership. You can't 1934 01:33:42.840 --> 01:33:44.479 do it in one week because people won't know it's coming. 1935 01:33:44.520 --> 01:33:46.720 It won't matter in two weeks, not enough data. But 1936 01:33:46.760 --> 01:33:49.359 if you did a six week run. I mean, I 1937 01:33:49.359 --> 01:33:52.680 was watching you know, Matt Riddle and and uh Pete 1938 01:33:52.680 --> 01:33:54.560 done last night, and I'm just like, if they were 1939 01:33:54.600 --> 01:33:57.640 in front of six thousand people instead of six hundred people. 1940 01:33:57.680 --> 01:33:59.880 You don't give or take in a big arena of 1941 01:34:00.079 --> 01:34:02.640 versus this awesome in of its setting, you know. And 1942 01:34:02.720 --> 01:34:04.680 I really like Full Sale, but I liked it on 1943 01:34:04.760 --> 01:34:07.680 deu B Network as a developmental brand, and it looks 1944 01:34:07.760 --> 01:34:09.640 just good enough where it's not like a weekly thing 1945 01:34:09.720 --> 01:34:12.159 for me to you know, it doesn't diminish my enjoyment 1946 01:34:12.479 --> 01:34:15.720 of the show in a significant way watching on USA, 1947 01:34:16.159 --> 01:34:19.960 but it's a factor when you imagine people flipping around 1948 01:34:20.279 --> 01:34:23.760 or sampling the products. Aw even in Huntsville, where they 1949 01:34:23.800 --> 01:34:25.640 weren't shy about showing the upper deck was empty in 1950 01:34:25.640 --> 01:34:27.880 certain parts of the building, it just feels bigger. And 1951 01:34:27.920 --> 01:34:30.720 therefore it's not so much how big the building feels, 1952 01:34:30.760 --> 01:34:32.920 but how big the wrestlers feel in a smaller venue 1953 01:34:32.960 --> 01:34:36.079 versus a bigger venue. And I just think it's hard 1954 01:34:36.079 --> 01:34:39.640 to create a star out of Keith Lee, Tomaso Champa 1955 01:34:39.680 --> 01:34:43.000 and Riddle and done on what they're doing. I think 1956 01:34:43.000 --> 01:34:45.640 it's hard to turn them into stars in front of 1957 01:34:45.760 --> 01:34:48.479 hundreds of people instead of thousands of people. 1958 01:34:50.279 --> 01:34:52.640 Yes, I do think that's a fact. I love the 1959 01:34:52.720 --> 01:34:55.079 idea of the Spring tour. I think that's great. I 1960 01:34:55.079 --> 01:34:57.840 think that is exactly the way they should for himness. So, 1961 01:34:57.920 --> 01:34:59.359 like you say, so you can say face if it 1962 01:34:59.359 --> 01:35:02.720 doesn't work out out. They're also you know, I mean 1963 01:35:02.840 --> 01:35:04.560 as much as Triple As just tried to fight this, 1964 01:35:05.039 --> 01:35:07.680 they're still known to people as developmental brand. Does that 1965 01:35:08.279 --> 01:35:12.600 play a part that it's somewhat minor league for WWE 1966 01:35:12.600 --> 01:35:15.479 if you will, as good as it is. And also 1967 01:35:15.600 --> 01:35:19.439 the notion that, okay, don't get you attached because some 1968 01:35:19.439 --> 01:35:21.119 of these people are probably going to be called up, 1969 01:35:21.479 --> 01:35:23.800 even if that's not really I mean, you're going to 1970 01:35:23.920 --> 01:35:26.119 have movements that that's to be expected, and I think 1971 01:35:26.159 --> 01:35:29.039 the rules have kind of changed, but it doesn't mean 1972 01:35:29.039 --> 01:35:32.920 that everyman out there knows this and they're just wondering, Okay, 1973 01:35:32.960 --> 01:35:36.479 if I get attached to velove a team dream, you know, Grady, 1974 01:35:36.760 --> 01:35:38.880 He's going to be gone up on the main roster 1975 01:35:39.000 --> 01:35:40.479 and then I'll just see him on Monday nights or 1976 01:35:40.479 --> 01:35:41.159 something like that. 1977 01:35:42.000 --> 01:35:44.479 Yeah, I think that's I think there It is a 1978 01:35:44.600 --> 01:35:49.239 collage of factors that leads to different perceptions of n 1979 01:35:49.399 --> 01:35:53.479 XT compare because I mean, I even have thought, what 1980 01:35:53.520 --> 01:35:57.399 if they just called it WWE at XT instead of 1981 01:35:57.479 --> 01:35:58.359 NXT on USA. 1982 01:35:58.760 --> 01:36:00.760 Well, they do label it that way, by the way, 1983 01:36:00.760 --> 01:36:03.000 if you don't know, they do label it that way 1984 01:36:03.039 --> 01:36:06.600 now on the like the DirecTV on screen guide. Yeah, 1985 01:36:06.640 --> 01:36:07.760 because I know there was a week where all of 1986 01:36:07.760 --> 01:36:09.079 a sudden everybody kind of had to if you had 1987 01:36:09.119 --> 01:36:11.399 it set up to record weekly and to change that. 1988 01:36:13.279 --> 01:36:17.279 So my my one, what I wonder is did that hurt? 1989 01:36:17.720 --> 01:36:19.520 And I know it's baffling the people who listen to 1990 01:36:19.560 --> 01:36:22.359 wrestling podcasts, although you got to know somebody, I mean, 1991 01:36:22.399 --> 01:36:24.960 everybody knows people aren't is into wrestling and into it 1992 01:36:25.039 --> 01:36:27.239 enough to listen to podcasts like this, and shame on 1993 01:36:27.279 --> 01:36:29.720 them those people. But they're people who like to watch 1994 01:36:29.720 --> 01:36:31.399 for a couple hours a week because they want to 1995 01:36:31.439 --> 01:36:33.920 see Roman Reigns, or they want to see New Day, 1996 01:36:34.000 --> 01:36:35.479 or they want to see Daniel Bryan, or they want 1997 01:36:35.520 --> 01:36:39.159 to see the Fiend or whoever. But it's it's it's 1998 01:36:39.199 --> 01:36:41.600 about certain stars, and it's about the big arena and 1999 01:36:41.640 --> 01:36:43.920 it feels like a big deal, and you know, it's 2000 01:36:43.920 --> 01:36:46.079 it's like going to the arena concert instead of the 2001 01:36:47.359 --> 01:36:49.720 hotter band that's at the smaller venue. You know, you 2002 01:36:49.720 --> 01:36:52.800 can you can judge people for having you know, bad 2003 01:36:52.840 --> 01:36:56.279 taste or going with the mainstream corporate branding, but there's 2004 01:36:56.279 --> 01:36:59.479 a reason those places fill buildings so I wonder if 2005 01:37:00.039 --> 01:37:02.640 ending at WWE and doing a little bit more not 2006 01:37:02.720 --> 01:37:06.359 not taking away triple H in company's autonomy, but the 2007 01:37:06.479 --> 01:37:08.920 branding itself, blending it a little more, if that went 2008 01:37:08.960 --> 01:37:11.359 to work ten xc's favor, there's some downside that offsets 2009 01:37:11.399 --> 01:37:15.119 it because NXT has kind of a niche separate cool 2010 01:37:15.159 --> 01:37:17.760 factor that comes from not being as much a part 2011 01:37:17.760 --> 01:37:19.920 of the corporate branding. So I don't know, Jason, but 2012 01:37:20.079 --> 01:37:21.439 you know, I mean, it's good that they're doing that 2013 01:37:21.479 --> 01:37:23.399 for like search returns, you know, on on you know 2014 01:37:23.479 --> 01:37:25.960 the way people search for programs now right, But if 2015 01:37:26.000 --> 01:37:28.119 they overtly labeled it and had the w B logo 2016 01:37:28.159 --> 01:37:31.039 and all that. I remember Kevin Dunne was in Paul Hayman. 2017 01:37:31.119 --> 01:37:32.720 I think Paul Hayman and Kevin dun kind of but 2018 01:37:33.079 --> 01:37:35.399 it heads on this with ECW. Should that to be logo, 2019 01:37:35.560 --> 01:37:37.359 that stamp be in the corner of the screen during 2020 01:37:37.359 --> 01:37:40.600 ECW on on Sci Fi? Or should it really seem 2021 01:37:40.640 --> 01:37:42.920 like its own brand? 2022 01:37:42.960 --> 01:37:45.079 That was an issue. I do remember that being a factor. 2023 01:37:45.159 --> 01:37:47.720 Yeah, so yeah, go. 2024 01:37:47.720 --> 01:37:49.840 Ahead, Well, I was gonna say this is kind of 2025 01:37:49.840 --> 01:37:52.800 an an out there. Well, I'm curious to know you 2026 01:37:52.800 --> 01:37:55.520 think not that this is going to be a big 2027 01:37:55.560 --> 01:37:58.119 factor for everyone, but could it be for some people 2028 01:37:58.560 --> 01:38:01.680 that well, you know, I'm talking about how perfect and 2029 01:38:01.760 --> 01:38:05.399 polished the NXT product can feel at times. Is there 2030 01:38:05.479 --> 01:38:08.640 something about aew where you don't feel like you know 2031 01:38:08.960 --> 01:38:11.279 what you're gonna get and you are kind of tuning 2032 01:38:11.319 --> 01:38:13.520 in to see, are they gonna make a mistake here, 2033 01:38:13.520 --> 01:38:15.439 they're gonna make a mistake, what's gonna be good? 2034 01:38:15.479 --> 01:38:16.199 What's gonna be bad? 2035 01:38:16.479 --> 01:38:19.560 Where it's more of a there's a little bit more 2036 01:38:19.560 --> 01:38:21.520 of an event feel to it, where you don't want 2037 01:38:21.520 --> 01:38:25.199 to miss it because it's Yeah, I mean, I don't 2038 01:38:25.199 --> 01:38:26.960 think they should like go out of their way to 2039 01:38:26.960 --> 01:38:29.600 make it that way. Obviously, they should try to present 2040 01:38:29.640 --> 01:38:31.279 the best product they can. But I mean, could that 2041 01:38:31.319 --> 01:38:33.920 be a little bit even without people thinking about that, 2042 01:38:33.960 --> 01:38:36.880 could that be something in their minds that they're tuning 2043 01:38:36.920 --> 01:38:39.239 in to c like, all right, the dark Order isn't working, 2044 01:38:39.279 --> 01:38:40.319 We'll get better this week. 2045 01:38:41.159 --> 01:38:43.359 Yeah. No, I think there is a lot. I won't 2046 01:38:43.359 --> 01:38:45.279 call it the tune in for the train wreck, because 2047 01:38:45.279 --> 01:38:47.399 I think that would be overstating it. Although we hear 2048 01:38:47.399 --> 01:38:49.079 from people who but feel like way, I think those 2049 01:38:49.079 --> 01:38:51.279 people aren't watching, but the idea of that, yeah, this 2050 01:38:51.399 --> 01:38:53.119 is and that's been my case too. Why you know, 2051 01:38:53.319 --> 01:38:55.079 I thought I was going to kind of rotate post 2052 01:38:55.119 --> 01:38:58.319 shows with Awn NXT. And I mean there's variety of 2053 01:38:58.319 --> 01:39:00.199 reasons I'm not doing it that I won't get in too, 2054 01:39:00.239 --> 01:39:03.359 but the major factor is I just think there's more 2055 01:39:03.399 --> 01:39:05.840 to talk about with AW because you're less sure of 2056 01:39:05.880 --> 01:39:07.640 what they're less your foot in and what they're doing, 2057 01:39:07.920 --> 01:39:11.399 and there's more variance. It's a new product NXT. I 2058 01:39:11.520 --> 01:39:13.520 enjoy people who listen to me talk about it. The 2059 01:39:13.600 --> 01:39:15.479 last couple of years. No, it was my favorite show 2060 01:39:15.479 --> 01:39:18.159 to watch on a weekly basis, and takeovers are my favorite, 2061 01:39:18.199 --> 01:39:20.359 like kind of live special events. It just it checked 2062 01:39:20.439 --> 01:39:23.239 enough boxes for me to be a product that it 2063 01:39:23.239 --> 01:39:26.000 didn't have as many irritating things, a little nitpicky stuff 2064 01:39:26.039 --> 01:39:28.399 that bothers me more than most people. But I will 2065 01:39:28.399 --> 01:39:30.600 defend that it's important and I will also depend it 2066 01:39:31.239 --> 01:39:34.199 argue it's symptomatic of things that are disrupted behind the scenes. 2067 01:39:34.199 --> 01:39:38.359 We don't notice, you know, the dirty the dirty dining 2068 01:39:38.439 --> 01:39:40.279 room might be indicative of a dirty kitchen and you 2069 01:39:40.359 --> 01:39:42.680 might get sick eating there. And when you have sloppy 2070 01:39:42.680 --> 01:39:44.319 stuff on there. There's probably some things that are missing 2071 01:39:44.319 --> 01:39:46.119 out on behind the scenes that would make the product better. 2072 01:39:46.279 --> 01:39:49.760 So that is an issue with AW but that gives 2073 01:39:49.760 --> 01:39:51.520 someone like me more to talk about with it because 2074 01:39:51.600 --> 01:39:53.199 the high end Jake tit so this dude, the highs 2075 01:39:53.199 --> 01:39:56.039 are higher, the thowse are lower. NXT is thoroughly enjoyable. 2076 01:39:56.119 --> 01:39:59.039 I never dread watching the show. I'm always excited to 2077 01:39:59.039 --> 01:40:03.359 watch it start to finish. But it's not experimental. It 2078 01:40:03.399 --> 01:40:05.840 is it knows what it is, and the people who 2079 01:40:05.880 --> 01:40:10.319 make the air almost entirely are polished, and even though 2080 01:40:10.359 --> 01:40:14.119 it's developmental, they're polished in ways that you can cover 2081 01:40:14.199 --> 01:40:15.560 up for some of the greenness of some of the 2082 01:40:15.560 --> 01:40:19.079 people who are younger. And there's less ConA Reeves now 2083 01:40:19.199 --> 01:40:21.039 than there used to be on the weekly TV show. 2084 01:40:21.199 --> 01:40:23.800 You know, they are not putting people out there to 2085 01:40:23.840 --> 01:40:25.720 sink or swim. They're putting people out there they know 2086 01:40:25.760 --> 01:40:28.279 that can swim. So it just it's a more paulished show. 2087 01:40:28.520 --> 01:40:31.600 And that's so it's fascinating, but it does give us 2088 01:40:32.359 --> 01:40:34.279 I mean, I still talk about NXT later in the 2089 01:40:34.279 --> 01:40:36.479 week on my various podcasts, but in terms of Night 2090 01:40:36.520 --> 01:40:39.680 of show discussion. Aw is just there's always something I 2091 01:40:39.680 --> 01:40:41.279 want to see next week that I think is worth 2092 01:40:41.960 --> 01:40:46.800 analyzing and talking about. That's more newsworthy. Yeah yeah, yeah. 2093 01:40:46.840 --> 01:40:48.760 So speaking of NXT, what do you think of what 2094 01:40:48.800 --> 01:40:50.279 they did with Charlotte. 2095 01:40:51.479 --> 01:40:53.840 I like that segment quite a bit. I mentioned in 2096 01:40:53.840 --> 01:40:55.800 my hit list. I think this was as good for 2097 01:40:55.960 --> 01:40:59.119 her as it was for them, just to you know, 2098 01:40:59.119 --> 01:41:03.079 if you're watching all WWE content, at least you know 2099 01:41:03.119 --> 01:41:10.439 the main shows. She's so stale on Rod's Mackdown. It's 2100 01:41:10.520 --> 01:41:13.800 not entirely her faults. A lot of it is the 2101 01:41:13.840 --> 01:41:17.199 way she's booked. They treat her like a star. They 2102 01:41:17.199 --> 01:41:19.319 book her like to be a star, but she's not 2103 01:41:19.399 --> 01:41:21.960 a champion, and the only feuds they care about for 2104 01:41:22.000 --> 01:41:25.199 the women involve titles, so she has no one to 2105 01:41:25.279 --> 01:41:29.279 feud with, and it's just tiresome. And she's fallen into 2106 01:41:29.319 --> 01:41:31.800 this trap of being very repetitive in the promos with 2107 01:41:31.840 --> 01:41:35.520 the clean material. So seeing her in the ring with 2108 01:41:35.600 --> 01:41:40.000 two very fresh potential opponents who are both very over 2109 01:41:41.119 --> 01:41:45.119 really jumped out. It helped her, it helped them. It 2110 01:41:45.199 --> 01:41:46.199 was just good all around. 2111 01:41:47.840 --> 01:41:49.720 We're about to go to a commercial break. Whyles's of 2112 01:41:49.760 --> 01:41:52.680 the commercial breaks when you can go vip and experience 2113 01:41:52.680 --> 01:41:55.199 our shows with the ads and plugs removed. Pw torchs 2114 01:41:55.239 --> 01:41:59.000 dot com slash go viip. That's pw torch dot com 2115 01:41:59.039 --> 01:42:02.119 slash go vip for full details, or go to Patreon 2116 01:42:02.199 --> 01:42:05.760 Patreon dot com slash pw Torch. VIP rate start as 2117 01:42:05.800 --> 01:42:08.039 low as four dollars in ninety nine cents to remove 2118 01:42:08.039 --> 01:42:11.000 the ads and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP membership starts 2119 01:42:11.039 --> 01:42:13.439 at nine dollars in ninety nine cents to treat yourself 2120 01:42:13.479 --> 01:42:16.840 to a streamlined, ad unplug free listening experience with a 2121 01:42:16.920 --> 01:42:22.319 VIP or Patreon membership. Bianca Belair is a star too, 2122 01:42:22.479 --> 01:42:26.079 in part because she just presents herself like no matter 2123 01:42:26.119 --> 01:42:27.960 what's going on, Like even when she got kind of 2124 01:42:28.000 --> 01:42:30.760 pushed out of in between Charlotte and bel Air and 2125 01:42:30.800 --> 01:42:32.640 she just stole the scene, like, I can't believe you 2126 01:42:32.680 --> 01:42:34.359 people just did that to me. And then she's dancing 2127 01:42:34.399 --> 01:42:37.479 in the background and laughing and creating this whole uproar. 2128 01:42:38.159 --> 01:42:40.840 And yet it didn't feel like she was stealing the 2129 01:42:40.880 --> 01:42:43.439 scene in a way that was disruptive, but it was 2130 01:42:43.680 --> 01:42:47.359 a I can't help myself, but I'm self aware of 2131 01:42:47.359 --> 01:42:49.840 it that I should be the star of the moment. 2132 01:42:49.960 --> 01:42:52.479 And then she knew when to dial it back and 2133 01:42:52.560 --> 01:42:55.560 let let the shift go back to Charlotte and bel 2134 01:42:55.600 --> 01:42:59.119 Air facing off, and so the dynamic with those three 2135 01:42:59.279 --> 01:43:02.199 was was really interesting. I think the segment was better 2136 01:43:02.479 --> 01:43:05.920 for that, in the dynamic of bel Air and ree 2137 01:43:06.000 --> 01:43:07.960 Rip leaving against each other but also sort of team 2138 01:43:07.960 --> 01:43:10.720 at XT or twenty twenty n XT versus the person 2139 01:43:10.760 --> 01:43:12.840 coming back to thinking she's a big deal. I thought 2140 01:43:12.840 --> 01:43:14.520 there were a lot of things that play there, and 2141 01:43:14.920 --> 01:43:16.399 it did. It gave Charlotte more to work with and 2142 01:43:16.439 --> 01:43:18.520 more to play off of, and she seemed less robotic 2143 01:43:18.560 --> 01:43:19.279 and what she did. 2144 01:43:20.600 --> 01:43:24.000 Yeah, this was my favorite Charlotte segment in a long 2145 01:43:24.159 --> 01:43:25.800 I can't even tell you the last time that I've 2146 01:43:25.840 --> 01:43:28.199 really been into something. Even when she was teaming with 2147 01:43:28.239 --> 01:43:30.960 Becky in the whole TLC thing, it's like, okay, whatever. 2148 01:43:31.479 --> 01:43:35.119 So I really like that Bianca I think is really strong. 2149 01:43:35.399 --> 01:43:38.399 This may seem like a nitpick. I like it the 2150 01:43:38.439 --> 01:43:41.840 first I like it probably the first handful of times 2151 01:43:41.880 --> 01:43:44.199 I saw her do the entrance, and now it feels 2152 01:43:44.199 --> 01:43:47.800 like a ridiculously choreographed WWE entrance. 2153 01:43:47.840 --> 01:43:49.600 I'd like to see them tone down on that a 2154 01:43:49.640 --> 01:43:50.039 little bit. 2155 01:43:50.560 --> 01:43:55.800 Yeah, fair enough, you know like when bel Air though 2156 01:43:55.840 --> 01:43:59.119 says you standing here, but you don't even go here 2157 01:43:59.680 --> 01:44:02.399 like that's and then Charlotte come back, this is a 2158 01:44:02.439 --> 01:44:05.439 conversation for champions, so stand over there and fix your braid. 2159 01:44:05.840 --> 01:44:07.920 And then you have the crowd, you know, going ooh a, 2160 01:44:08.119 --> 01:44:10.199 you know, like reacting to everything that. That was a 2161 01:44:10.199 --> 01:44:12.359 fun segment. That was a fun segment, and then you 2162 01:44:12.399 --> 01:44:14.239 know they loaded oh yeah, and then they loaded up 2163 01:44:14.239 --> 01:44:16.159 the main event. I mean, I think they probably finished 2164 01:44:16.439 --> 01:44:18.439 strong too. I don't think a lot of nxtvs are 2165 01:44:18.479 --> 01:44:20.520 like I got to go check out the lashing. I 2166 01:44:20.600 --> 01:44:23.800 think they delivered you know, a really good uh you know, 2167 01:44:23.840 --> 01:44:25.640 close to the show with the final two segments. 2168 01:44:26.279 --> 01:44:28.840 Well and you know, the overrun was back and so 2169 01:44:29.000 --> 01:44:31.680 I didn't check the exact time to see when velveteen 2170 01:44:31.720 --> 01:44:32.920 Dream showed up, but you know. 2171 01:44:33.000 --> 01:44:35.039 It had to be during the over bah. Yeah. Sure 2172 01:44:35.039 --> 01:44:36.479 at least got a glimpse of that if they were 2173 01:44:36.479 --> 01:44:37.279 flipping over. 2174 01:44:37.279 --> 01:44:39.720 Good good point. Yeah, and he looks good. He's a star, 2175 01:44:39.840 --> 01:44:44.560 he I mean he NXT has people who believe their stars, 2176 01:44:44.680 --> 01:44:46.439 whether they are or not. I mean, and I think 2177 01:44:46.479 --> 01:44:48.359 in most cases they are. You know, Keith Lee is 2178 01:44:48.399 --> 01:44:51.960 Bianca bell Air is velveteen dream is they they carry 2179 01:44:52.000 --> 01:44:55.560 themselves like rising stars who deserve to have your attention. 2180 01:44:55.680 --> 01:44:58.520 And that's that's half the battle. That's half the battle sometimes. 2181 01:44:58.560 --> 01:45:00.880 So and how good does that take over lineup? Look? 2182 01:45:00.960 --> 01:45:04.520 Oh my god, yes, oh I know it's it's it's 2183 01:45:04.720 --> 01:45:06.359 a fun show and I'm glad it's got it. It 2184 01:45:06.479 --> 01:45:07.800 just gets the attention that weekend. 2185 01:45:08.439 --> 01:45:12.039 My only concern and it's just a minor one. Yeah, 2186 01:45:12.279 --> 01:45:15.000 we're close to wrestlemany A weekend. Is this going to 2187 01:45:15.039 --> 01:45:19.000 be one of those shows where you know, takeovers usually 2188 01:45:19.000 --> 01:45:21.680 get clean finishes? And could this be more of a 2189 01:45:21.720 --> 01:45:23.840 set up show? Because you know, if you're looking ahead 2190 01:45:23.840 --> 01:45:26.439 to Wrestle many A weekend, you're gonna have to create 2191 01:45:26.479 --> 01:45:29.439 a lot of fresh matchups and different things. And how 2192 01:45:29.479 --> 01:45:31.920 do you know if you're just gonna give clean finishes, 2193 01:45:32.399 --> 01:45:34.199 you can do some, you can do a rematcher two. 2194 01:45:34.560 --> 01:45:37.520 But I do wonder if we may get you disappointing 2195 01:45:37.520 --> 01:45:39.239 finish here or there on that show to set up 2196 01:45:39.239 --> 01:45:40.159 the need for a rematch. 2197 01:45:41.079 --> 01:45:44.439 I'm counting. I think we have like seven weeks in between, though, 2198 01:45:45.000 --> 01:45:46.760 so I think that's enough time to get I know 2199 01:45:46.800 --> 01:45:48.800 what you're saying, but I mean there's enough time to 2200 01:45:48.840 --> 01:45:52.359 give finishes and have it seem like a big show, 2201 01:45:52.960 --> 01:45:55.760 and then you know, hit the reset on a couple things, 2202 01:45:55.800 --> 01:45:58.000 introduce a couple of things, and rev up things that 2203 01:45:58.000 --> 01:46:00.920 that they that they you know, might appeared they finished 2204 01:46:00.920 --> 01:46:02.640 but didn't based on you know, being able to book 2205 01:46:02.640 --> 01:46:05.439 every week and tell stories. If it was like four weeks, 2206 01:46:05.479 --> 01:46:10.560 I'd be more worried. Sure, Yeah, but yeah, that's a uh, 2207 01:46:11.079 --> 01:46:13.720 that's a nice lineup. I mean, Dakota, Kaya, Tigu and Knox. 2208 01:46:13.760 --> 01:46:16.560 There's such a backstory there. I think they extinguished it 2209 01:46:16.600 --> 01:46:20.920 a little bit, but hopefully they can rev that. Yes, Yes, 2210 01:46:21.800 --> 01:46:23.920 and then Keith Lee died. Jakovic. I thought that was, 2211 01:46:24.199 --> 01:46:26.960 you know, just like the respectful you know, the respectful 2212 01:46:26.960 --> 01:46:31.079 conversation that stared down two peers, two rivals and when 2213 01:46:31.079 --> 01:46:32.880 that bell rings, we're gonna go at it. And I 2214 01:46:33.279 --> 01:46:36.159 like that not everything has to be this this you know, vile, 2215 01:46:36.159 --> 01:46:39.119 bloody grudge, and they have plenty of them in NXT, 2216 01:46:39.239 --> 01:46:40.880 but it's nice to have something a little different than that. 2217 01:46:41.119 --> 01:46:42.399 And this will be a chance for them. I mean, 2218 01:46:42.399 --> 01:46:45.560 I feel like I've seen them wrestle enough that I 2219 01:46:45.640 --> 01:46:49.199 was actually you know, I was I'd mixed feelings about 2220 01:46:49.239 --> 01:46:51.600 them doing it again, but having a chance to have 2221 01:46:51.720 --> 01:46:54.880 no commercials, uh, plenty of time to tell their story. 2222 01:46:55.159 --> 01:46:56.960 This can be the cap to their feud. And I 2223 01:46:56.960 --> 01:46:59.439 think there's such a chemistry between them and the goal 2224 01:46:59.479 --> 01:47:01.359 is to get both eyes over so in front of 2225 01:47:01.399 --> 01:47:03.960 a takeover audience. I think it's it's nice that they'll 2226 01:47:03.960 --> 01:47:04.560 have that chance. 2227 01:47:04.960 --> 01:47:07.159 I agree, Yeah, I've I've been hoping they would get 2228 01:47:07.159 --> 01:47:08.840 that opportunity. It's good to see them get that. 2229 01:47:09.359 --> 01:47:09.600 Yeah. 2230 01:47:09.600 --> 01:47:13.960 And then broserwaits on disputed arificial Riley that's great. Colon Tampa, Wait, 2231 01:47:14.880 --> 01:47:16.840 Colon Chava is going to be great ballor Gargana's going 2232 01:47:16.880 --> 01:47:18.640 to be great. Ripley bel Air should be really good. 2233 01:47:19.359 --> 01:47:20.920 And I mean, I want to go back to a 2234 01:47:20.960 --> 01:47:25.159 couple those matches. But Ripley is absolutely the breakout star 2235 01:47:25.199 --> 01:47:27.319 of the last you know, six months or whatever. I mean, 2236 01:47:27.399 --> 01:47:32.840 she just it's she just has that something special where 2237 01:47:33.159 --> 01:47:35.600 I actually think she's taken some of the conversation away 2238 01:47:35.640 --> 01:47:39.319 from SHANEA. Basler going to the main roster and what 2239 01:47:39.439 --> 01:47:42.399 will that mean because Ripley basically already is you know, 2240 01:47:42.520 --> 01:47:44.960 she's involved in a storyline that is and involved with Charlotte. 2241 01:47:45.479 --> 01:47:48.199 Ripley is kind of I mean, as exciting as it is, 2242 01:47:48.319 --> 01:47:51.279 she I think she's taken some of the shine off 2243 01:47:51.359 --> 01:47:53.560 of the excitement of what's next for shanea baseil or 2244 01:47:53.720 --> 01:47:55.279 Shane is going to be fine. But in the moment 2245 01:47:55.399 --> 01:47:59.439 right now, Ripley has leaffrogged her in terms of conversation piece. 2246 01:48:00.560 --> 01:48:02.960 And so what better time than to send up Shanna? 2247 01:48:03.039 --> 01:48:07.199 You know they now they held off forever, they have 2248 01:48:07.399 --> 01:48:09.439 the replacement, and it's a different you know, she's a 2249 01:48:09.479 --> 01:48:13.319 baby face, so it's different, but they have that, you know, 2250 01:48:13.479 --> 01:48:16.520 that face of the women's division, and it's a strong one, 2251 01:48:16.840 --> 01:48:19.279 certainly stronger than what we're getting on SmackDown for instance. 2252 01:48:19.680 --> 01:48:25.199 Yes, yep, okay, so it's gonna say, uh what I 2253 01:48:25.319 --> 01:48:29.880 left there is uh oh yeah, the the browerways. I 2254 01:48:29.920 --> 01:48:31.920 want to ask about Matt Ryl and Pete Donne in 2255 01:48:32.000 --> 01:48:36.359 their chemistry and their promo, did Riddle get a little 2256 01:48:36.399 --> 01:48:40.800 too cute? And and I don't even know z zany 2257 01:48:40.880 --> 01:48:42.199 is not the word d x or zany And I 2258 01:48:42.239 --> 01:48:47.840 hate Zanny. I don't know a little too just informal 2259 01:48:48.640 --> 01:48:51.399 or or did it totally work it? Because I was 2260 01:48:51.479 --> 01:48:53.720 watching that and I was like, I think it's sort 2261 01:48:53.760 --> 01:48:55.840 of like the lashing segment, like is this too self indulgence? 2262 01:48:55.920 --> 01:48:57.560 Going too long? And by the end I was like 2263 01:48:57.760 --> 01:49:00.520 that worked. And with Riddle and done, I was sort 2264 01:49:00.520 --> 01:49:01.880 of like, is this getting too cute? And then by 2265 01:49:01.880 --> 01:49:03.600 the end I was like, that worked. 2266 01:49:03.720 --> 01:49:03.840 Now. 2267 01:49:04.359 --> 01:49:06.880 My concern that I threw to you is it worked, 2268 01:49:06.960 --> 01:49:09.560 But does it in any way to find down Matt 2269 01:49:09.680 --> 01:49:11.319 Riddle to have him be so goofy? 2270 01:49:12.199 --> 01:49:14.800 I don't think so. It's not the time for him 2271 01:49:14.840 --> 01:49:16.079 to be one. 2272 01:49:16.880 --> 01:49:19.159 I think what you saw was, you know, it was 2273 01:49:19.239 --> 01:49:22.239 probably written for him, but it really tapped into Matt 2274 01:49:22.319 --> 01:49:27.279 Riddle and his personality, and I just thought it was fun. 2275 01:49:27.680 --> 01:49:28.560 I mean that that was. 2276 01:49:30.239 --> 01:49:34.079 You see attempts at humor like that and not just 2277 01:49:34.239 --> 01:49:36.039 like that, but I mean the attempts of at humor 2278 01:49:36.079 --> 01:49:38.560 you get on the main roster just fall flat on 2279 01:49:38.600 --> 01:49:39.000 their face. 2280 01:49:39.079 --> 01:49:40.520 Where this just worked so well. 2281 01:49:41.199 --> 01:49:43.239 Live crowd was into it, had a lot of fun 2282 01:49:43.319 --> 01:49:46.119 with it, and yeah, just I think we got kind 2283 01:49:46.159 --> 01:49:49.680 of a chance to see Matt Riddle's quirky personality. And 2284 01:49:49.800 --> 01:49:52.479 then when once he I mean he's going for the 2285 01:49:52.520 --> 01:49:55.279 tag titles. That's nice, but they just won the Dusty Classic. 2286 01:49:55.359 --> 01:49:57.399 They should be kind of in silly, feel good mode. 2287 01:49:57.920 --> 01:49:59.600 And then when the time comes for him to either 2288 01:49:59.640 --> 01:50:03.039 go after the NXT Championship or hell even fewed with 2289 01:50:03.199 --> 01:50:05.039 that Pete Dunn have done turns on him or something 2290 01:50:05.119 --> 01:50:07.840 like that, then he can kind of turn on the 2291 01:50:07.960 --> 01:50:10.359 more serious Matt Riddle. I don't think it's a bad 2292 01:50:10.439 --> 01:50:13.319 thing to show multiple sides of his personality. 2293 01:50:14.039 --> 01:50:16.439 Yeah, no, I think that is fair. I bring it 2294 01:50:16.520 --> 01:50:20.239 up because it's I think a valid question. I wouldn't 2295 01:50:20.239 --> 01:50:23.840 call it a serious concern because in a way, you 2296 01:50:23.920 --> 01:50:25.359 just got to let Matt Riddle be Matt Riddle. 2297 01:50:25.960 --> 01:50:27.159 Yeah. I wouldn't want to you. 2298 01:50:27.199 --> 01:50:29.920 I wouldn't want to see another attempt at at a 2299 01:50:30.000 --> 01:50:32.600 humor like, all right, we're onto something here where that 2300 01:50:32.680 --> 01:50:34.560 becomes like the r Truth segment for n XT. 2301 01:50:35.159 --> 01:50:37.079 But you know, for one night I thought it was fun. 2302 01:50:37.439 --> 01:50:38.119 Yeah, yep. 2303 01:50:47.159 --> 01:50:49.520 Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back, 2304 01:50:49.680 --> 01:50:52.720 relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share 2305 01:50:52.760 --> 01:50:53.279 your passion? 2306 01:50:53.880 --> 01:50:55.439 Do you want to be topped off the ledge? 2307 01:50:55.479 --> 01:50:57.800 After a segment that has you wondering what the heck 2308 01:50:57.840 --> 01:50:58.439 are they thinking? 2309 01:50:59.079 --> 01:51:01.720 Do you want to join discussion on what AW is 2310 01:51:01.800 --> 01:51:04.560 doing right and what they could do to improve, Then 2311 01:51:04.640 --> 01:51:06.720 join me Joel and me Greg. 2312 01:51:06.600 --> 01:51:09.079 For the All of the Conversation Club every Friday on 2313 01:51:09.119 --> 01:51:12.840 the PW torch Live Cast. Fee search pw torch in 2314 01:51:12.920 --> 01:51:16.039 your podcast app and subscribe to pw torch Daily Cast 2315 01:51:16.399 --> 01:51:19.600 or streamer shows directly from pw torch dot com. Find 2316 01:51:19.640 --> 01:51:23.039 full details on the PW torch Dailycast lineup at pw 2317 01:51:23.199 --> 01:51:25.039 torchdailycast dot com. 2318 01:51:34.199 --> 01:51:40.520 And NXT overall. Is there any like I'm trying to 2319 01:51:40.520 --> 01:51:42.760 think of an example to give of something where they 2320 01:51:42.840 --> 01:51:45.439 have some work to do or is this just them 2321 01:51:46.039 --> 01:51:48.000 doing a good job knowing what they're doing? Like? Is 2322 01:51:48.039 --> 01:51:50.039 there is you know, because there's areas of concern that 2323 01:51:50.039 --> 01:51:52.119 I have with AW, and we talked about them. What 2324 01:51:52.600 --> 01:51:54.560 comes to mind when I bring that up about NXT? 2325 01:51:54.880 --> 01:51:57.720 What could they other than the arena setting? I guess, 2326 01:51:57.760 --> 01:52:01.079 which you know is that's if that's a compliment to 2327 01:52:01.079 --> 01:52:02.880 say this should be these rustlers would be playing in 2328 01:52:02.880 --> 01:52:04.000 front of a bigger building. 2329 01:52:04.920 --> 01:52:05.600 That's just it. 2330 01:52:05.960 --> 01:52:08.239 I you know, that's why I say, I think I 2331 01:52:09.039 --> 01:52:12.600 wondered at what level of frustration there is that they're 2332 01:52:12.640 --> 01:52:15.520 not doing bigger numbers because this is just such a 2333 01:52:15.760 --> 01:52:20.920 well booked promotion and just such a well booked television series. 2334 01:52:21.680 --> 01:52:25.600 It's I mean, you know, nothing is flawless, but it's 2335 01:52:25.720 --> 01:52:31.279 just so consistently strong. I can't point to you can 2336 01:52:31.279 --> 01:52:32.600 I always say, well, you know, i'd like to see 2337 01:52:32.600 --> 01:52:34.960 this person challenging with the title instead or something like that, 2338 01:52:35.199 --> 01:52:40.680 But everything logical, the segments, it's rare now that you 2339 01:52:40.760 --> 01:52:43.479 see they're just failing some time. I did feel like 2340 01:52:43.560 --> 01:52:47.279 that a little bit with the Tyler Breeze Jordan Devlin match. 2341 01:52:47.640 --> 01:52:49.039 I thought it was a good match. I don't know 2342 01:52:49.119 --> 01:52:50.560 that it needed to go as long as it did, 2343 01:52:51.520 --> 01:52:54.720 but even that, I mean, it still was very entertaining 2344 01:52:54.840 --> 01:52:59.000 for what it was. And yeah, so I almost feel 2345 01:52:59.079 --> 01:53:02.680 bad for, you know, the creative people in NXT because 2346 01:53:02.680 --> 01:53:05.199 they are doing such a damn good job. And I 2347 01:53:05.359 --> 01:53:08.600 just hope that Vince isn't being Vince and blowing a 2348 01:53:08.680 --> 01:53:11.199 gasket because they're losing this battle to aw because I 2349 01:53:11.239 --> 01:53:12.439 don't know what else they could be doing. 2350 01:53:13.000 --> 01:53:17.479 Who are tell me the Heeled depth chart, I would 2351 01:53:17.520 --> 01:53:23.159 say that that's that would be the number one conversation 2352 01:53:23.319 --> 01:53:25.159 piece if you were to look at are they doing 2353 01:53:25.359 --> 01:53:27.920 enough on the male side with that? Because you've got 2354 01:53:28.039 --> 01:53:36.000 unisputed Era and then Finn Balor. Who's next, Famian Priest? 2355 01:53:36.520 --> 01:53:37.319 Who am I forgetting? 2356 01:53:38.199 --> 01:53:38.479 Maybe? 2357 01:53:38.680 --> 01:53:40.199 Yeah, I don't have the list in front of me, 2358 01:53:40.399 --> 01:53:43.279 but that was the name that popped into my head too. 2359 01:53:43.319 --> 01:53:46.720 I don't know if we're forgetting someone yeah, but yeah, 2360 01:53:46.720 --> 01:53:49.279 a Killian Dane, but he's pretty far down the list 2361 01:53:49.359 --> 01:53:52.760 because he tends to lose, you know, more than he wins. Yeah, 2362 01:53:53.399 --> 01:53:55.479 and that's I do wonder if that's there. They're setting 2363 01:53:55.520 --> 01:53:58.159 things up as fun as Riddle and Done are together. 2364 01:53:59.520 --> 01:54:01.479 I could see that being a short term thing and 2365 01:54:01.560 --> 01:54:04.239 they I didn't Pete Done. It is gonna be a 2366 01:54:04.319 --> 01:54:06.880 pleasant surprise for people who've only seen him on the 2367 01:54:07.000 --> 01:54:09.319 us NXT as far as what kind of a heel 2368 01:54:09.359 --> 01:54:11.640 he can be if they go in that direction. So 2369 01:54:11.680 --> 01:54:14.960 I think he could be there, But yeah, I'm struggling 2370 01:54:15.039 --> 01:54:18.760 to think of who else really fits in there, because yeah, 2371 01:54:18.760 --> 01:54:20.439 they do seem babyface heavy. 2372 01:54:21.079 --> 01:54:23.159 He just he looks like somebody who showed up at 2373 01:54:23.159 --> 01:54:26.880 the pizza place super hungry and he sits down, looks 2374 01:54:26.920 --> 01:54:28.760 at the menu and the services. I just like to 2375 01:54:28.840 --> 01:54:30.520 let you know, we just ran out of mozzarella cheese. 2376 01:54:31.159 --> 01:54:33.560 Like he just his arms are crossed. I'm grumpy. 2377 01:54:33.600 --> 01:54:35.720 There's nothing that can that's nothing can scheer me up. 2378 01:54:36.399 --> 01:54:38.359 And it is such a contrast with Riddle, and they're 2379 01:54:38.359 --> 01:54:41.439 playing it for comedy, but there's they're also laying the foundation. 2380 01:54:41.520 --> 01:54:43.479 These are very different people and it could go it 2381 01:54:43.600 --> 01:54:44.840 could go wrong at some point. 2382 01:54:45.960 --> 01:54:49.159 Yeah, I mean I think it probably needs to now 2383 01:54:49.199 --> 01:54:51.119 that you point out the lack of heel depth. 2384 01:54:52.239 --> 01:54:55.720 Yeah, yeah, so I would say that's that's the area. 2385 01:54:55.760 --> 01:54:58.319 And again they book in a less traditional way because 2386 01:54:58.399 --> 01:55:03.800 I mean they a Lee Leon Dominic are our faces. 2387 01:55:03.920 --> 01:55:06.760 Champa and Gargano are faces, but there isn't a scent. 2388 01:55:07.359 --> 01:55:09.520 There's a sense that anybody can find anybody at any time. 2389 01:55:09.680 --> 01:55:13.199 You know, it's not as clear cut, but I think 2390 01:55:13.880 --> 01:55:15.920 we're the most you know in you know Gargano right now, 2391 01:55:16.000 --> 01:55:17.600 he's not a heel, but the fans are sort of like, 2392 01:55:18.039 --> 01:55:20.840 where you are our guy. And now some people, at 2393 01:55:20.880 --> 01:55:23.600 least at full sale, aren't so sure. And I'm curious 2394 01:55:23.600 --> 01:55:25.840 what the crowd reaction in Portland is for Baler and Gargano. 2395 01:55:26.000 --> 01:55:27.960 You know, throughout that match, you know it might not 2396 01:55:28.079 --> 01:55:30.319 be a heel face matchup, even though you know we 2397 01:55:30.399 --> 01:55:32.880 talk about aw trying to book Hangman Page as a 2398 01:55:32.960 --> 01:55:35.399 heel and Kenny and the Bucks's faces. This could be 2399 01:55:35.439 --> 01:55:37.680 a case where the fans end up tearing Baller and 2400 01:55:37.720 --> 01:55:40.039 Boo and Gargano more because how they feel about Gargano 2401 01:55:40.199 --> 01:55:42.800 oddly than just because Baler's a star and they love him. 2402 01:55:42.840 --> 01:55:44.600 I'm curious about that. I don't know how that do 2403 01:55:44.680 --> 01:55:45.680 you have a sense of that. 2404 01:55:46.520 --> 01:55:49.800 That's you know, that's that's tough to predict, because I 2405 01:55:50.039 --> 01:55:54.640 think you're right. I don't think Johnny, I've talked about 2406 01:55:54.640 --> 01:55:57.840 this before. They kind of came in at a downtime 2407 01:55:57.920 --> 01:56:00.279 for him when it comes to NXT in USA. So 2408 01:56:00.319 --> 01:56:01.920 there's a lot of people who didn't get to live 2409 01:56:02.000 --> 01:56:04.800 through the best of Gargana, and then you also have 2410 01:56:04.920 --> 01:56:07.399 people who have seen it and are kind of like, Okay, 2411 01:56:07.439 --> 01:56:10.239 but now what And maybe it is a heel run, 2412 01:56:10.760 --> 01:56:13.640 but I hope it's not. It's a heel run that 2413 01:56:13.640 --> 01:56:17.000 we're gonna turn Finn Balor. I think Balor needs to 2414 01:56:17.039 --> 01:56:19.680 start healing on the fans he's such a He's a 2415 01:56:20.079 --> 01:56:23.600 really good heel, but we're kind of missing that right now. 2416 01:56:23.800 --> 01:56:27.399 He's heelish toward other wrestlers, but he seems to be 2417 01:56:27.560 --> 01:56:29.399 content with the fans cheering him, and I'd like to 2418 01:56:29.439 --> 01:56:31.319 see him just have no redeeming qualities. 2419 01:56:31.960 --> 01:56:35.680 Going a little heavy on NXT Talk than normal for 2420 01:56:35.720 --> 01:56:37.119 a couple of reasons, because I think it was a good, 2421 01:56:37.239 --> 01:56:40.039 good news worthy show last night. And also we've, you know, 2422 01:56:40.319 --> 01:56:42.960 since I've already done a couple hours on SmackDown and 2423 01:56:43.079 --> 01:56:45.520 Raw and AEW, and so it's fun to get a 2424 01:56:45.560 --> 01:56:48.399 little more in NXT. If you want even more NXT. 2425 01:56:48.520 --> 01:56:51.319 By the way, p WT Talks NXT is our Thursday 2426 01:56:51.359 --> 01:56:55.079 show drops late Wednesday night early Thursday morning with Kelly 2427 01:56:55.079 --> 01:56:56.840 Walls and Eate Lindberg and Tons Stop and they talked. 2428 01:56:56.880 --> 01:56:59.000 They talked every week for an hour and a half 2429 01:56:59.039 --> 01:57:03.560 two hours apout NXT super in depth and so just 2430 01:57:03.600 --> 01:57:06.520 search PW Torch on your podcast app to to grab that. 2431 01:57:06.720 --> 01:57:08.840 And that is one of seven new shows a week. 2432 01:57:08.920 --> 01:57:11.439 But the NXT show, if you're looking for that quick turnaround, 2433 01:57:11.479 --> 01:57:14.319 in depth weekly discussion even longer than what Jason and 2434 01:57:14.319 --> 01:57:16.680 are doing here, check that out. One of the things 2435 01:57:16.720 --> 01:57:19.119 about last night show we haven't talked a lot about 2436 01:57:19.119 --> 01:57:21.399 you just I think mentioned in passing is how long 2437 01:57:21.520 --> 01:57:24.680 Jordan Devlin and Tyler Breese was. And I'm it was good, 2438 01:57:25.319 --> 01:57:28.399 but I was kind of half expecting Devlin to like 2439 01:57:28.439 --> 01:57:31.359 beat him in like a minute or two. Breese hasn't 2440 01:57:31.399 --> 01:57:36.359 been featured much. I like Tyler, but when when when 2441 01:57:36.439 --> 01:57:38.359 he and Fondaga were kind of doing their thing on 2442 01:57:38.560 --> 01:57:41.520 NXT early on in the in the Wednesday battle, I 2443 01:57:41.640 --> 01:57:43.119 was like, I'm not sure that's a good idea. You know, 2444 01:57:43.159 --> 01:57:45.159 you don't want XT to seem like, you know, rests 2445 01:57:45.199 --> 01:57:47.000 are featured who are just sort of you know, I 2446 01:57:47.359 --> 01:57:49.359 think I just didn't think that was a great use 2447 01:57:49.399 --> 01:57:52.279 of time to treat them as competitive competitive tag team 2448 01:57:52.319 --> 01:57:54.039 as much as I'm a fan of aspects of what 2449 01:57:54.119 --> 01:57:56.239 they do in the ring and his characters, and so 2450 01:57:56.359 --> 01:57:57.600 they'd been away for a while and I thought, well, 2451 01:57:57.640 --> 01:57:59.079 Breeze just going to be kind of like Eric Young 2452 01:57:59.319 --> 01:58:02.000 and it went really long. Was that good or bad 2453 01:58:02.079 --> 01:58:05.000 for Jordan Devlin? Or was the match good enough in 2454 01:58:05.079 --> 01:58:08.279 his projection of his personality and his intensity and his 2455 01:58:08.359 --> 01:58:12.000 moveset Was that more important than winning quickly against somebody 2456 01:58:12.079 --> 01:58:15.359 that fans don't see as a top level guy. 2457 01:58:16.439 --> 01:58:19.039 I don't know that it matters this early with him, 2458 01:58:19.119 --> 01:58:21.399 And part of it is he's the cruiserweight champion and 2459 01:58:21.439 --> 01:58:26.119 there's only so much appreciation for that title, so you 2460 01:58:26.159 --> 01:58:28.079 would think it would help make him and I guess 2461 01:58:28.119 --> 01:58:30.439 it does. You know, it helps him stand out a 2462 01:58:30.479 --> 01:58:33.960 little bit. It was a good match, and I think 2463 01:58:33.960 --> 01:58:36.319 people are going to remember that part of it, and 2464 01:58:36.479 --> 01:58:38.840 so when he you know, whatever he does next, I 2465 01:58:38.920 --> 01:58:40.840 think the follow up I think will be the key. 2466 01:58:41.239 --> 01:58:42.880 But yeah, it was strange. 2467 01:58:43.039 --> 01:58:45.159 I didn't see the match going that way, but I 2468 01:58:45.239 --> 01:58:47.920 also enjoyed it because I was happy to see Breeze 2469 01:58:48.000 --> 01:58:50.920 do something other than that awful Breeze on Goo silliness. 2470 01:58:50.960 --> 01:58:54.640 That would have been something that was an early source 2471 01:58:54.680 --> 01:58:58.239 of multiple misses in my Hits and Misses section because 2472 01:58:58.359 --> 01:59:00.560 it just was like, this doesn't fit in. Why are 2473 01:59:00.600 --> 01:59:05.520 they doing this male stripper routine entrance at NXT and 2474 01:59:05.800 --> 01:59:08.760 clowning around. I don't like this, But so it was 2475 01:59:08.840 --> 01:59:10.800 kind of like we had the old Tyler Breeze back. 2476 01:59:11.640 --> 01:59:14.119 But yeah, I mean, so they're trying to make at 2477 01:59:14.159 --> 01:59:15.960 the same time, they're trying to make a statement that hey, 2478 01:59:16.079 --> 01:59:18.359 you know, Tyler Brees can be taken serious. You're doing 2479 01:59:18.439 --> 01:59:20.520 it with the guy who just won the Cruiserweight title, 2480 01:59:20.560 --> 01:59:23.680 who doesn't make appearances on your NXT television show. So 2481 01:59:23.840 --> 01:59:25.479 I don't know that that's really going to send that 2482 01:59:25.600 --> 01:59:29.760 message either. So yeah, it was I enjoyed the match, 2483 01:59:30.279 --> 01:59:33.520 but it was one of the I'd love to know 2484 01:59:33.640 --> 01:59:34.560 the logic behind. 2485 01:59:34.800 --> 01:59:36.439 Yeah, why did they go so damn long? 2486 01:59:36.880 --> 01:59:39.720 I know, Yeah, I was just shocked when they kept 2487 01:59:39.800 --> 01:59:42.079 going to commercial, coming back and oh it's still I 2488 01:59:42.199 --> 01:59:43.560 was thinking this will be a time when when it 2489 01:59:43.680 --> 01:59:45.800 ends during the commercial and they'll establish that can happen, 2490 01:59:45.920 --> 01:59:49.960 and they just kept going, yeah, Jordan Devlin. I liked 2491 01:59:50.000 --> 01:59:53.039 the line. I think it was Nigel who said, Jordan 2492 01:59:53.079 --> 01:59:55.680 Devlin wants to defend this Cruiser White title and NXT UK, 2493 01:59:55.960 --> 01:59:58.399 NXT and two A five live, the idea that he's 2494 01:59:58.520 --> 02:00:01.760 a traveling champion and the fact that now they're finding 2495 02:00:01.800 --> 02:00:04.000 guys who actually are shorter and this isn't meant as 2496 02:00:04.000 --> 02:00:06.199 a dick, but they're shorter than Adam Cole and Kyler Riley. 2497 02:00:06.319 --> 02:00:08.600 They're shorter than Finnbaler, guys who in another era would 2498 02:00:08.600 --> 02:00:11.560 have been the cruiserweights. They're putting the title on guys 2499 02:00:11.760 --> 02:00:15.880 who look like there would be smaller, smaller than the 2500 02:00:16.039 --> 02:00:18.520 heavyweights in NXT. So to speak. Maybe I'm a little 2501 02:00:18.560 --> 02:00:20.600 off on that. Maybe Jordan Devlo would stand next Kyler 2502 02:00:20.680 --> 02:00:23.319 Riley and be a little taller, or Adam Adam Cole 2503 02:00:23.439 --> 02:00:25.560 or something, but I don't think so, Like he comes 2504 02:00:25.560 --> 02:00:27.119 across to me as someone who is a little bit shorter. 2505 02:00:27.359 --> 02:00:28.199 Do you think I'm wrong on that? 2506 02:00:28.880 --> 02:00:33.000 I know, I God, I don't think so. Yeah, Yeah, 2507 02:00:33.000 --> 02:00:36.800 I think you're right because certainly established that right. 2508 02:00:36.880 --> 02:00:37.479 Yeah, for sure. 2509 02:00:37.680 --> 02:00:39.720 Yeah, I like the idea of having the If you're 2510 02:00:39.720 --> 02:00:41.479 gonna have the cruiserweight title, make sure it someone who's 2511 02:00:42.119 --> 02:00:45.520 noticeably shorter or smaller than the top guys you're pushing 2512 02:00:45.520 --> 02:00:49.600 in the heavyweight division, and then make sure they're really 2513 02:00:49.600 --> 02:00:52.199 good and they have personality. And then the idea that yeah, 2514 02:00:52.199 --> 02:00:55.640 it's a traveling champion floating around these three brands. You 2515 02:00:55.720 --> 02:00:59.600 know that works for me. Give yourself a reason to 2516 02:00:59.640 --> 02:01:01.359 look for to go into the mailbox each week with 2517 02:01:01.439 --> 02:01:06.199 a PW Torch newsletter paper copy subscription details at PW 2518 02:01:06.439 --> 02:01:09.520 torch dot com. Slash paper copy It's twelve pages every 2519 02:01:09.560 --> 02:01:12.640 week packed with my TV reports, along with exclusive features 2520 02:01:12.680 --> 02:01:14.600 such as my cover story on the top story of 2521 02:01:14.640 --> 02:01:17.359 the week, our pay per view roundtable reviews from the 2522 02:01:17.439 --> 02:01:21.560 Torch staff, exclusive feature length columns from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, 2523 02:01:21.720 --> 02:01:26.319 Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan and Zach Haydorn, Torch Talk transcripts, 2524 02:01:26.359 --> 02:01:30.039 the latest news, and more. PW Torch dot Com slash 2525 02:01:30.159 --> 02:01:33.840 Paper Copy take a break from screen time and settle 2526 02:01:33.880 --> 02:01:36.920 in every week with a megadosa wrestling news and analysis 2527 02:01:37.000 --> 02:01:40.359 with a Pro Wrestling Torch newsletter paper copy edition in 2528 02:01:40.439 --> 02:01:43.159 the year twenty twenty two. You can get a full 2529 02:01:43.359 --> 02:01:46.560 year of home delivery for just ninety nine dollars, or 2530 02:01:46.920 --> 02:01:50.000 try us for an eight week trial subscription. PW Torch 2531 02:01:50.079 --> 02:01:52.239 dot Com Slash Paper Copy. 2532 02:01:55.399 --> 02:01:57.600 Will two of five live go away if they find 2533 02:01:57.680 --> 02:02:00.319 if they do, shall you know, basically show off the network. 2534 02:02:01.000 --> 02:02:02.520 You know, it's it's I'm glad you brought that up 2535 02:02:02.520 --> 02:02:05.000 because going back to our original discussion, and there's so 2536 02:02:05.119 --> 02:02:08.439 much going on today just in our Top Story of 2537 02:02:08.479 --> 02:02:11.159 the show. But I think what Doughbe has discovered is 2538 02:02:11.319 --> 02:02:18.880 there's not a lot of interest in like non essential 2539 02:02:19.319 --> 02:02:22.560 programs to sustain a network. And again part of that 2540 02:02:22.680 --> 02:02:24.560 is it's a different landscape now than six years ago, 2541 02:02:25.760 --> 02:02:29.279 you know, with AEW doing what they're doing with NXT 2542 02:02:29.520 --> 02:02:33.039 now on USA. Not to mention impact NWA Power aw 2543 02:02:33.279 --> 02:02:37.880 Dark New Japan having even losing access more more excess 2544 02:02:37.960 --> 02:02:39.680 access of that through their streaming networking on and on 2545 02:02:40.800 --> 02:02:43.840 MLW I we shouldn't leave them out for sure, ROH 2546 02:02:43.920 --> 02:02:46.840 and syndication and online. So it's just the idea of 2547 02:02:46.840 --> 02:02:48.199 paying ten dollars a month so you can see two 2548 02:02:48.239 --> 02:02:52.000 five live, that's just not gonna happen. But also, I 2549 02:02:52.079 --> 02:02:54.319 mean they were excited about you know, Mick Foley in 2550 02:02:54.359 --> 02:02:58.439 a reality series and Legends House and all that, and 2551 02:02:58.479 --> 02:03:00.840 they've tried to do the ride a Law in the 2552 02:03:00.960 --> 02:03:03.600 Table for three and all that, and it's just in 2553 02:03:03.680 --> 02:03:05.840 the live podcasts, and then they did the Remember the 2554 02:03:05.960 --> 02:03:09.720 Days of the Renee Young hosted raw pre show. There's 2555 02:03:09.760 --> 02:03:12.159 so many things they've tried, and it doesn't seem to 2556 02:03:12.319 --> 02:03:16.600 me anything has stuck where they believe. That's a difference maker, 2557 02:03:16.720 --> 02:03:19.239 because I know you and I on the flagship when 2558 02:03:19.279 --> 02:03:20.840 you were like, oh got it, Life's about to change, 2559 02:03:21.079 --> 02:03:24.279 you know, Before the network launched and I remember having 2560 02:03:24.319 --> 02:03:26.760 it on my laptop in the kitchen, watching the live 2561 02:03:26.840 --> 02:03:28.760 stream of whatever they happened to put on the day 2562 02:03:28.760 --> 02:03:30.840 it launch, and just keeping an eye on it. And 2563 02:03:31.199 --> 02:03:34.199 that's not you know, that's not how it works anymore, 2564 02:03:34.279 --> 02:03:37.199 Like I don't think people do that, And so. 2565 02:03:38.000 --> 02:03:39.840 I don't remember the last time I've just turned that 2566 02:03:39.960 --> 02:03:41.159 thing on, just have it on. 2567 02:03:41.399 --> 02:03:43.960 Yeah, it's that's not I mean, I'm sure some people do, 2568 02:03:44.039 --> 02:03:46.720 but I bet it's a tiny number. And so if 2569 02:03:46.960 --> 02:03:48.239 you know when you say, well two of five live 2570 02:03:48.279 --> 02:03:51.199 go away, now that NXT isn't on the network and 2571 02:03:51.359 --> 02:03:54.840 with Takeover going on a Sunday night on its own weekend, 2572 02:03:55.039 --> 02:03:55.640 what does that mean? 2573 02:03:55.680 --> 02:03:55.800 You know? 2574 02:03:56.079 --> 02:03:58.039 Is that worth reading into it all in terms of 2575 02:03:58.199 --> 02:04:00.279 can we if we go the paper viato go in 2576 02:04:00.439 --> 02:04:02.840 ESPN plus route, do we just have Takeovers on a 2577 02:04:02.880 --> 02:04:05.680 standalone now that they're on USA and give it its 2578 02:04:05.720 --> 02:04:09.319 own weekend and don't piggyback it necessarily not that they 2579 02:04:09.359 --> 02:04:11.279 haven't done it before, but it hasn't been the norm. 2580 02:04:11.800 --> 02:04:15.159 Is that a possibility? Like what will people miss on 2581 02:04:15.279 --> 02:04:18.520 the network if everything goes away? Especially now when you 2582 02:04:18.560 --> 02:04:21.640 have Corey Gray's and New Day doing podcasts, the idea 2583 02:04:21.640 --> 02:04:23.920 of oh, the network gives me this access to wrestlers 2584 02:04:23.960 --> 02:04:25.920 talking with each other about the business or each other, 2585 02:04:26.640 --> 02:04:29.079 the novelty factor on a lot of that secondary programming, 2586 02:04:29.119 --> 02:04:30.680 I just don't think as a difference maker to have 2587 02:04:31.000 --> 02:04:31.399 or lose. 2588 02:04:32.319 --> 02:04:35.720 No, I will miss the documentary type of stuff. I 2589 02:04:35.800 --> 02:04:39.760 think they produce some very good documentaries, but it's I 2590 02:04:39.800 --> 02:04:43.800 mean some of this what I do just work wise 2591 02:04:44.439 --> 02:04:46.359 makes it difficult to even keep up on all of that. 2592 02:04:47.119 --> 02:04:48.439 But I think a lot of fans are in that 2593 02:04:48.520 --> 02:04:52.239 same boat. Unless you're just a WWE only type of fan, 2594 02:04:53.000 --> 02:04:54.920 If you're trying to keep up on a lot of 2595 02:04:55.239 --> 02:04:59.319 pro wrestling content from different companies, you just run out 2596 02:04:59.359 --> 02:04:59.720 of time. 2597 02:05:00.079 --> 02:05:01.960 And so I think that is a factor. 2598 02:05:02.039 --> 02:05:04.640 So as much as I like some of those documentaries 2599 02:05:04.680 --> 02:05:10.439 and things, Yeah, the big reason I felt the network 2600 02:05:10.560 --> 02:05:12.960 was going to be a game changer for just what 2601 02:05:13.159 --> 02:05:17.800 we do. I thought you'd see something like WWE backstage, 2602 02:05:18.000 --> 02:05:20.600 but on a daily basis for multiple hours. And I 2603 02:05:20.640 --> 02:05:22.920 think they're kind of doing that with the Bump now, 2604 02:05:22.960 --> 02:05:25.720 which maybe you tell that they're doing this on YouTube 2605 02:05:25.760 --> 02:05:30.800 instead of their own network, because then they talked about 2606 02:05:30.840 --> 02:05:33.960 it that they talked about doing like a morning type 2607 02:05:34.000 --> 02:05:36.800 of show or an afternoon news show, and it just 2608 02:05:36.880 --> 02:05:39.359 never materialized. That's what I thought, we're gonna have to 2609 02:05:39.359 --> 02:05:41.359 be keeping an eye on that sort of thing, and 2610 02:05:41.479 --> 02:05:44.359 instead it's all just relegated to, you know, one hour 2611 02:05:44.479 --> 02:05:47.720 show on Tuesday nights, which was what happened to Tuesday 2612 02:05:47.800 --> 02:05:48.680 being the down night way. 2613 02:05:48.880 --> 02:05:51.479 I know, I was supposed to be hig you had 2614 02:05:51.479 --> 02:05:54.119 a breath between Raw and you know it used to 2615 02:05:54.159 --> 02:05:55.720 be ross backdown, back to back. But oh, there'll be 2616 02:05:55.880 --> 02:05:58.680 a deep breath between Raw and the Wednesday night craziness. 2617 02:05:59.479 --> 02:06:02.800 And yeah, there's so much on Tuesday nights. You got 2618 02:06:02.920 --> 02:06:04.600 to pick and choose what you do and also not 2619 02:06:04.680 --> 02:06:07.399 get completely burned out by the time you know, Wednesday 2620 02:06:07.439 --> 02:06:11.000 comes around. Right, But let's listen to us. We get 2621 02:06:12.199 --> 02:06:15.880 all right, let's uh, let's turn the page to what's 2622 02:06:15.920 --> 02:06:18.560 going on over on Monday night Raw. A little surprise, 2623 02:06:18.600 --> 02:06:23.600 big picture that the ratings haven't moved in a good 2624 02:06:23.760 --> 02:06:27.960 direction for the show, because I think it's continued to 2625 02:06:28.039 --> 02:06:31.840 be a better show, a show that I think people 2626 02:06:31.920 --> 02:06:34.119 who sample it would go, yeah, I like, I like 2627 02:06:34.199 --> 02:06:34.680 what I'm seeing. 2628 02:06:34.760 --> 02:06:34.880 Now. 2629 02:06:35.319 --> 02:06:38.399 What is that your feel to watching the show that 2630 02:06:38.479 --> 02:06:41.319 you think maybe it should have gained some traction now. 2631 02:06:41.479 --> 02:06:42.960 I mean it was down to a one point five 2632 02:06:43.000 --> 02:06:45.239 to seven this week after hitting a one point six 2633 02:06:45.279 --> 02:06:47.279 seven and one point sixty six the previous two weeks. 2634 02:06:47.640 --> 02:06:51.039 We're in that post football season and WrestleMania season, and 2635 02:06:51.119 --> 02:06:53.359 it seems post Rumble there's there's been a drop off. 2636 02:06:54.079 --> 02:06:56.960 Yeah, you know, I think it deserves better numbers because 2637 02:06:57.079 --> 02:07:01.760 just based on quality, but it's when you have so 2638 02:07:01.960 --> 02:07:05.079 much content, if you go through a slump, it's going 2639 02:07:05.119 --> 02:07:06.920 to be tougher than ever to get people back because 2640 02:07:06.960 --> 02:07:09.319 for some people, not everybody think you know that, we 2641 02:07:09.399 --> 02:07:12.159 see the numbers, but for some people, Wednesday's become the 2642 02:07:12.199 --> 02:07:15.000 new wrestling night, and you know, they they're getting their 2643 02:07:15.000 --> 02:07:17.119 fixed there and they're not going to be as quick 2644 02:07:17.159 --> 02:07:20.000 to go back to Raw. It's just, you know, some 2645 02:07:20.039 --> 02:07:21.640 people are going to try to watch everything, but there 2646 02:07:21.680 --> 02:07:23.479 are those fans that are going to be more selective 2647 02:07:23.560 --> 02:07:25.960 and so it's going to take some time. Even though 2648 02:07:25.960 --> 02:07:28.319 they don't have direct competition on Monday nights from another 2649 02:07:28.359 --> 02:07:32.039 wrestling company's it kind of does remind me of back 2650 02:07:32.079 --> 02:07:33.880 in the day when you know, Raw was clearly a 2651 02:07:33.920 --> 02:07:36.199 better show than Nitro for so long, but Nitro was 2652 02:07:36.239 --> 02:07:38.720 still winning that ratings battle. I just think people get 2653 02:07:38.760 --> 02:07:41.279 out of the habit of watching Raw. Going back to 2654 02:07:41.560 --> 02:07:43.960 watching a three hour show may feel like a chore, 2655 02:07:44.520 --> 02:07:47.800 and especially when you start thinking about whatever made them 2656 02:07:47.840 --> 02:07:49.359 give up on it in the first place, and just. 2657 02:07:49.399 --> 02:07:52.119 You know, probably the really bad shows that they were delivering. 2658 02:07:52.359 --> 02:07:54.199 So yeah, I just think it's natural that it's going 2659 02:07:54.279 --> 02:07:56.199 to take some time to win people over and then 2660 02:07:56.319 --> 02:07:59.119 let people, you know, just let that word of mouth 2661 02:07:59.199 --> 02:08:01.239 start to build a little bit that hey, this is 2662 02:08:01.279 --> 02:08:01.880 a better show. 2663 02:08:02.439 --> 02:08:03.800 He may want to give it another look. 2664 02:08:04.319 --> 02:08:09.439 Yeah, yeah, So what what do you on a specific 2665 02:08:09.680 --> 02:08:11.439 character development or feud standpoint? 2666 02:08:12.159 --> 02:08:16.600 Like most about what Raw has done. Oh man, so 2667 02:08:16.680 --> 02:08:18.439 now we're deep in the show. I mean, you're making 2668 02:08:18.520 --> 02:08:21.960 me think about the Monday. I know, it's crazy on Thursday. 2669 02:08:22.000 --> 02:08:24.920 How far far? Because you got Randy Orton and he's 2670 02:08:25.000 --> 02:08:26.199 not really good. 2671 02:08:26.479 --> 02:08:29.039 Yeah, Randy had just been really strong. 2672 02:08:29.319 --> 02:08:33.920 Just seeing rand just seeing Randy seemed to be engaged 2673 02:08:34.000 --> 02:08:37.760 in something that interests him. He seemed so disinterested for 2674 02:08:37.920 --> 02:08:40.920 so many years, not because he didn't want to be interested. 2675 02:08:41.159 --> 02:08:43.680 He was the kid in class who was two years 2676 02:08:43.720 --> 02:08:47.680 ahead on the math lesson and board. He wanted something 2677 02:08:48.359 --> 02:08:54.399 I couldnot relate to that. He wanted something more what's 2678 02:08:54.439 --> 02:08:57.000 the square root of for I don't know, Okay. 2679 02:08:56.880 --> 02:08:59.479 Just yes, yes, good Jay, thank you. 2680 02:09:01.079 --> 02:09:05.079 So he seemed like, just give me something, and I 2681 02:09:05.880 --> 02:09:08.119 it seems like Paul Hayman's given him something and he 2682 02:09:08.239 --> 02:09:10.760 seems more engaged. So to me, that like obviously that 2683 02:09:10.840 --> 02:09:13.159 jumps out. But I'll throw candidates at you because you, 2684 02:09:13.279 --> 02:09:14.600 I mean you were about to when I interrupted. You 2685 02:09:14.680 --> 02:09:17.279 were about to say someone Drew McIntyre turning baby face. 2686 02:09:17.640 --> 02:09:19.199 There's about damn time. 2687 02:09:20.319 --> 02:09:23.000 Yes, yep, and uh. And I mean they've got the 2688 02:09:23.039 --> 02:09:27.399 Ray Mysterio Andrade Lumberto now Angel Guards a thing going on, 2689 02:09:28.479 --> 02:09:31.560 just you know, Ray in general as a character that 2690 02:09:31.720 --> 02:09:33.920 that is in a good spot. And then you have 2691 02:09:34.039 --> 02:09:36.359 you know, Becky and Charlotte has two standout characters, and 2692 02:09:36.399 --> 02:09:39.600 you have Seth the Monday Night Messiah as his thing 2693 02:09:39.720 --> 02:09:42.239 will leave aside lash Lee and Lana, I just don't 2694 02:09:42.279 --> 02:09:44.680 want to talk about it this week, but I and 2695 02:09:44.760 --> 02:09:46.560 I'm probably leaving and then brought you know, kind of 2696 02:09:46.600 --> 02:09:48.600 brought Lesner and the story of what's going on with him. 2697 02:09:48.600 --> 02:09:50.760 Although that guys, I guess relates to Drew McIntyre right now. 2698 02:09:51.880 --> 02:09:54.159 Those are those jump out to me as the top things. 2699 02:09:54.159 --> 02:09:56.560 I mean, I say this, it's an all star cast 2700 02:09:56.760 --> 02:10:00.920 of wrestlers being utilized as good as I've seen collectively. 2701 02:10:01.399 --> 02:10:03.439 Wwe utilize what they have to work with in a 2702 02:10:03.520 --> 02:10:03.880 long time. 2703 02:10:04.600 --> 02:10:04.800 Yeah. 2704 02:10:04.920 --> 02:10:08.319 Absolutely, I'm enjoying Raw so much more these days. They're 2705 02:10:08.359 --> 02:10:12.600 filling that time nicely, and you know, it's I know 2706 02:10:12.680 --> 02:10:15.239 it's repetitive, but as much as they're filling that time, 2707 02:10:15.560 --> 02:10:19.039 it is still three hours and they The reason I 2708 02:10:19.119 --> 02:10:22.279 bring that up is because it's so difficult for them 2709 02:10:22.359 --> 02:10:24.479 to just leave you going. Man, I wish there was more. 2710 02:10:24.560 --> 02:10:26.880 I wish we could see this. I do think that 2711 02:10:27.000 --> 02:10:29.560 still works against them, but yeah, I mean, it's just 2712 02:10:30.119 --> 02:10:33.279 a much improved show. It's you know, it does give 2713 02:10:33.319 --> 02:10:35.760 me faith that Vince McMahon is letting Paul Hayman have 2714 02:10:35.920 --> 02:10:39.479 more creative freedom, whether he's dedicating his time to SmackDown 2715 02:10:39.600 --> 02:10:41.880 or just signing off in rubber stamping what he's getting 2716 02:10:41.920 --> 02:10:43.600 on Raw, because it's so much better. 2717 02:10:44.119 --> 02:10:44.319 Yeah. 2718 02:10:50.279 --> 02:10:53.239 Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn 2719 02:10:53.359 --> 02:10:57.199 some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties Pass cast every 2720 02:10:57.279 --> 02:11:00.600 Friday on the PW Towards Daily Cast Feed. Alex and 2721 02:11:00.680 --> 02:11:03.920 Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by 2722 02:11:04.039 --> 02:11:06.720 taking you through the Torch issue from that very week. 2723 02:11:07.319 --> 02:11:10.399 Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the 2724 02:11:10.479 --> 02:11:13.640 happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as 2725 02:11:13.720 --> 02:11:17.119 The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties 2726 02:11:17.199 --> 02:11:20.560 Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. 2727 02:11:30.279 --> 02:11:34.159 I mentioned earlier, I don't know that Drew is going 2728 02:11:34.279 --> 02:11:40.000 to be a transformative babyface. Do you think I'm wrong 2729 02:11:40.079 --> 02:11:42.399 in ruling in leaning towards ruling that out. 2730 02:11:44.079 --> 02:11:47.600 I will not rule that out. I can't tell you're 2731 02:11:47.600 --> 02:11:51.359 wrong either. It's I think he so much of it too. 2732 02:11:51.479 --> 02:11:54.159 Is what does Vince picmahon think. Does Vince Bicman see 2733 02:11:54.239 --> 02:11:56.920 him as a transformative baby face? Does he see him 2734 02:11:56.960 --> 02:11:59.399 having that Roman range potential? Is he on board with 2735 02:11:59.520 --> 02:12:02.000 this or is he just saying, Okay, Paul, go ahead, 2736 02:12:02.039 --> 02:12:03.119 well we'll see what happens. 2737 02:12:04.279 --> 02:12:06.560 I think he's a yeah. 2738 02:12:06.560 --> 02:12:10.439 I mean, it's I don't see him necessarily being stone 2739 02:12:10.520 --> 02:12:12.279 cold John Cena that. 2740 02:12:12.479 --> 02:12:15.279 But at the same time, you know he is something different. 2741 02:12:16.319 --> 02:12:18.119 I've said for a long time, and I think he 2742 02:12:19.000 --> 02:12:22.520 has all the qualities that they wish Roman Reigns had. 2743 02:12:23.079 --> 02:12:26.399 I think he has that ability. So I can't say that, 2744 02:12:26.680 --> 02:12:28.399 you know, no, he can't become that. 2745 02:12:29.239 --> 02:12:31.239 But you know, I don't look at him just think, 2746 02:12:31.319 --> 02:12:33.520 oh slam dunk, this guy is gonna know he's the 2747 02:12:33.680 --> 02:12:37.119 next John Cena. I don't necessarily see it that way either, 2748 02:12:38.239 --> 02:12:40.960 you know, I think they should be very open minded 2749 02:12:41.079 --> 02:12:43.880 going into the possibility that, you know, he may have 2750 02:12:44.039 --> 02:12:46.479 that quality to him, and if he doesn't, well, hey, 2751 02:12:47.119 --> 02:12:48.760 he's still really good at what he does. 2752 02:12:50.560 --> 02:12:52.720 Could Roman Reigns could not get away and seeing what 2753 02:12:52.800 --> 02:12:54.479 we've seen out of him and the way that he 2754 02:12:54.560 --> 02:12:57.760 talks with a yawls and and you know whatever, that 2755 02:12:57.920 --> 02:13:00.399 it's just his persona. He could never get away with 2756 02:13:00.479 --> 02:13:04.199 saying that he's sexy and not have the fans completely 2757 02:13:04.279 --> 02:13:08.319 rebel against him. But Drew McIntyre, the women swoon. I 2758 02:13:08.399 --> 02:13:10.279 think the kids are gonna want to buy merchandise three 2759 02:13:10.319 --> 02:13:13.399 two to one claymore. But the guys are gonna like 2760 02:13:13.479 --> 02:13:15.199 him too. He can get away with saying I'm the 2761 02:13:15.199 --> 02:13:18.600 sexy Scotsman. And I don't think there's anybody who looks 2762 02:13:18.600 --> 02:13:20.439 at him and goes, he's a badass, But yeah, he 2763 02:13:20.479 --> 02:13:21.960 thinks he's sexy, and I don't want to cheer this guy. 2764 02:13:22.399 --> 02:13:24.359 My friends will can't be weird or something like that. Like, 2765 02:13:24.560 --> 02:13:26.319 I don't think that's I don't think that's an issue 2766 02:13:26.319 --> 02:13:29.239 with him. There's something there with him that he can 2767 02:13:29.319 --> 02:13:32.640 be all things tall people and something stopped Roman from 2768 02:13:32.720 --> 02:13:34.760 getting their same thing, something stop Seth from getting there. 2769 02:13:35.279 --> 02:13:38.119 I think Drew has a huge upside. I think he's 2770 02:13:38.720 --> 02:13:43.079 a very valuable heel and even better valuable baby face 2771 02:13:43.079 --> 02:13:44.600 because he gets to break out of a very narrow 2772 02:13:44.680 --> 02:13:47.399 lane he was in as the grumpy, uptight heel and 2773 02:13:48.560 --> 02:13:51.520 you know, destined for greatness, but standing behind other people 2774 02:13:51.760 --> 02:13:56.000 circumstantially for you know, way too long. This is breakoup. 2775 02:13:56.279 --> 02:13:58.680 I still but when I say transformative, I just don't 2776 02:13:58.680 --> 02:14:02.880 think he's Hogan or or necessarily even what Daniel Bryan 2777 02:14:03.119 --> 02:14:05.880 was for that snapshot of history. That that the glimpse 2778 02:14:05.960 --> 02:14:08.479 that we got before is kind of muffled a bit 2779 02:14:08.520 --> 02:14:10.840 by the booking. But I don't I don't know for sure. 2780 02:14:10.880 --> 02:14:13.239 That's why I bring it up and ask. My inclination 2781 02:14:13.399 --> 02:14:15.760 is to bet you know, a level down from that, 2782 02:14:15.960 --> 02:14:19.479 but he's still if they play their cards right and 2783 02:14:19.560 --> 02:14:23.479 if he beats Brock at Mania, you know, are you 2784 02:14:23.600 --> 02:14:26.079 set for a few years with a guy who ends 2785 02:14:26.159 --> 02:14:28.079 up better off than Seth and Rains did as your 2786 02:14:28.119 --> 02:14:30.680 top in his prime babyface? 2787 02:14:31.399 --> 02:14:31.560 Right? 2788 02:14:31.840 --> 02:14:32.039 Yeah? 2789 02:14:32.239 --> 02:14:36.319 I think there's that potential, is there? I wouldn't be 2790 02:14:36.439 --> 02:14:39.199 printing shirts with sexy sexy Scotsman. 2791 02:14:39.920 --> 02:14:41.920 No, but he got I was saying it in kind 2792 02:14:41.960 --> 02:14:42.880 of a self aware way. 2793 02:14:43.359 --> 02:14:45.279 But I did hear my girlfriend giggle from the kitchen 2794 02:14:45.319 --> 02:14:47.239 when he said that, So I don't know if she 2795 02:14:47.319 --> 02:14:49.039 was giggling like, yeah, he is, or just thought it 2796 02:14:49.119 --> 02:14:49.800 was a funny line. 2797 02:14:49.840 --> 02:14:54.039 I'm not sure, but yeah, I think you know he is. 2798 02:14:54.399 --> 02:14:55.279 I'd be more. 2799 02:14:55.239 --> 02:14:57.760 Concerned right now if I hadn't seen him an impact 2800 02:14:57.840 --> 02:15:01.239 wrestling do such an effective job as a baby that. Okay, 2801 02:15:01.359 --> 02:15:04.560 sexy Scotsman, where is this going? But we have seen that, 2802 02:15:04.800 --> 02:15:06.880 and we know like he can get away with that 2803 02:15:06.960 --> 02:15:08.680 because he's such a good talker and he knows how 2804 02:15:08.680 --> 02:15:11.880 to walk that line. So yeah, I think, you know, 2805 02:15:12.000 --> 02:15:14.479 there's a lot of upside here. I think this is 2806 02:15:14.960 --> 02:15:17.640 a really exciting move. That was the most excited I've 2807 02:15:17.680 --> 02:15:20.720 been about a royal Rumbo winner in a long time. 2808 02:15:21.680 --> 02:15:24.760 It was just the right move to make. And my fear, 2809 02:15:24.880 --> 02:15:27.159 even when it was Brock hung around the ringside, like, oh, 2810 02:15:27.199 --> 02:15:28.479 he's going to pull him over and they're going to 2811 02:15:28.479 --> 02:15:30.079 split this up and have him win the chamber to 2812 02:15:30.119 --> 02:15:30.720 get to Brock. 2813 02:15:31.119 --> 02:15:33.239 But they did the right thing. They went all the way. 2814 02:15:33.359 --> 02:15:35.039 They had him to eliminate Brock and had him go 2815 02:15:35.159 --> 02:15:37.840 all the way to win, and I think that was 2816 02:15:37.920 --> 02:15:38.520 the way to do it. 2817 02:15:39.079 --> 02:15:41.439 And if he doesn't win the title at WrestleMania, I'm 2818 02:15:41.479 --> 02:15:43.039 not going to panic as long as I have some 2819 02:15:43.920 --> 02:15:46.439 feeling that okay, and they just didn't feel like this 2820 02:15:46.760 --> 02:15:48.800 was the time. Maybe you do it at SummerSlam and 2821 02:15:48.840 --> 02:15:51.640 you build that moment a little bit more. It doesn't 2822 02:15:51.760 --> 02:15:53.520 I mean, Manya is where they like to do those 2823 02:15:53.560 --> 02:15:55.640 sorts of things to really make somebody. So I'm not 2824 02:15:55.760 --> 02:15:57.159 ruling it out, but I'm just saying I'm not going 2825 02:15:57.199 --> 02:15:58.880 to panic either, as long as it's not just oh, 2826 02:15:58.960 --> 02:16:02.000 Brock beats him and six minutes like Brock beats everybody, 2827 02:16:02.079 --> 02:16:03.159 that would be a huge mistake. 2828 02:16:04.199 --> 02:16:07.439 One of the odds Drew beats Rock and becomes champion 2829 02:16:07.479 --> 02:16:09.399 at Mania right now. 2830 02:16:09.479 --> 02:16:11.640 I look at it like at least seventy five eight. 2831 02:16:12.399 --> 02:16:14.479 I think he does because I don't know what you're 2832 02:16:14.600 --> 02:16:15.119 looking at. 2833 02:16:15.159 --> 02:16:17.800 You know who else is going to I mean, yeah, 2834 02:16:17.880 --> 02:16:20.239 I just I think it's the right thing to do. 2835 02:16:20.359 --> 02:16:21.760 I think it's the right time to do it. I 2836 02:16:23.600 --> 02:16:25.920 but part of me just I just bet I should 2837 02:16:25.920 --> 02:16:27.359 say I've been burned by it because I don't know how. 2838 02:16:27.520 --> 02:16:29.560 I mean, Rain's got his win. Seth got his win 2839 02:16:29.640 --> 02:16:33.280 with a low blow. You know it's happened. But I 2840 02:16:33.440 --> 02:16:36.360 just it feels like Drew. I'm still worried Drew as 2841 02:16:36.399 --> 02:16:38.200 the flavor of the season because Vince doesn't see a 2842 02:16:38.239 --> 02:16:40.120 better option and he got talked into it by Paul 2843 02:16:40.520 --> 02:16:43.760 and I. So until I see it, I'm just not 2844 02:16:44.040 --> 02:16:46.239 I don't want to get myself too up for it. 2845 02:16:46.319 --> 02:16:48.959 But I think it's the right move. I mean, Drew 2846 02:16:49.360 --> 02:16:52.719 looks and he's carried himself. He's carrying himself as a 2847 02:16:52.760 --> 02:16:55.399 guy who is not intimidated by Brock and he does 2848 02:16:55.479 --> 02:16:57.000 so in a way that I buy into and I 2849 02:16:57.120 --> 02:16:59.000 didn't with Seth. That's not the story they told his Seth. 2850 02:16:59.040 --> 02:17:00.719 Sets I think I can meet up. I think I 2851 02:17:00.760 --> 02:17:03.200 can beat him. Drew's like, I'm kay his ass, you know, 2852 02:17:03.280 --> 02:17:05.520 through Claymore, He's done. I'm not scared of him. And 2853 02:17:05.719 --> 02:17:08.399 Rain's just doesn't have that. Rains always felt like that 2854 02:17:08.600 --> 02:17:10.959 video game reporter or the video game wrestler who pops 2855 02:17:11.000 --> 02:17:13.319 off the screen and is Vincent Man's vision of the 2856 02:17:13.360 --> 02:17:15.600 ultimate you know, guy who I'm gonna push. But he 2857 02:17:15.639 --> 02:17:18.920 didn't seem like a fighter. He was the cool dude 2858 02:17:19.360 --> 02:17:21.120 who knew his place in the shield and then got 2859 02:17:21.120 --> 02:17:23.440 over pushed and all that. It's like he had stiff 2860 02:17:23.440 --> 02:17:25.280 working against him, and those things just aren't there with Drew. 2861 02:17:25.440 --> 02:17:28.559 So yeah, I think people would buy Drew as as 2862 02:17:28.639 --> 02:17:31.280 a badass who can beat Brock and he's not shying 2863 02:17:31.319 --> 02:17:35.399 away from from you know, setting the goal high. So yeah, 2864 02:17:35.479 --> 02:17:37.760 it's it's fun, It's this is this. So many people 2865 02:17:37.760 --> 02:17:40.200 are on journeys right now. You know, Edge and Wharton, 2866 02:17:40.200 --> 02:17:42.399 they're each on a journey. Raymisterio's on a journey. Angel 2867 02:17:42.440 --> 02:17:46.440 Garza now on a journey filling in for uh Andrade 2868 02:17:46.680 --> 02:17:48.639 and Umberto was on a journey. They had he wasn't 2869 02:17:48.680 --> 02:17:50.719 the flavor of the week who's been discarded. They they're 2870 02:17:50.760 --> 02:17:53.680 investing in him. You know, he's he's a valuable off, 2871 02:17:53.799 --> 02:17:55.319 you know, kind of bench player to use an NBA 2872 02:17:55.399 --> 02:17:58.239 analogy or whatever, like they they're and I think there's 2873 02:17:58.239 --> 02:18:00.520 an upside for him so on and off And we 2874 02:18:00.559 --> 02:18:03.440 haven't talked about the women's division there. There's some good 2875 02:18:03.440 --> 02:18:05.559 stuff going on on Raw. The wrestlers are on journeys 2876 02:18:05.559 --> 02:18:07.760 and I'm invested in them well. 2877 02:18:07.840 --> 02:18:10.280 And one more point on Drew is you know, the 2878 02:18:10.360 --> 02:18:12.680 last time I was this excited about somebody that was 2879 02:18:12.760 --> 02:18:14.760 kind of rising the ranks as a baby face was 2880 02:18:14.799 --> 02:18:17.360 braun Stroman going into his first match with brock Lessner. 2881 02:18:18.399 --> 02:18:21.360 The difference now is that there's no Roman reigns, you know, 2882 02:18:21.520 --> 02:18:23.879 Vince chosen one standing in the way. I don't see 2883 02:18:23.879 --> 02:18:26.399 anyone on Raw that is being built up in that 2884 02:18:26.879 --> 02:18:29.479 in that fashion. So yeah, that's why I think there's 2885 02:18:29.479 --> 02:18:33.079 a really good chance that he ends up beating Brock again, 2886 02:18:33.159 --> 02:18:34.879 whether it's Mania, Summer Slam. 2887 02:18:34.959 --> 02:18:36.760 You know, at some point I think he's the guy. 2888 02:18:37.479 --> 02:18:42.120 Yeah, yep, thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to 2889 02:18:42.200 --> 02:18:44.559 the next level with a VIP membership. Get shows like 2890 02:18:44.639 --> 02:18:47.639 this The Way Killer Prossing Podcast, Weight Killer Prosing Post Show, 2891 02:18:47.959 --> 02:18:50.680 and the pw Torch daily casts on our pw Torch 2892 02:18:50.959 --> 02:18:54.440 VIP podcast feed with ads and plugs removed from the 2893 02:18:54.479 --> 02:18:57.719 shows for a streamlined listening experience, and also hear the 2894 02:18:57.879 --> 02:19:00.239 VIP exclusive shows that I host with Rich Fans and 2895 02:19:00.399 --> 02:19:02.559 Todd Martin, Everything with Rich Fan and The Fix with 2896 02:19:02.600 --> 02:19:05.399 Todd Martin signature VP series that you're missing out without 2897 02:19:05.479 --> 02:19:08.440 a VIP membership, So go vip here in twenty twenty 2898 02:19:08.479 --> 02:19:11.559 two and enjoy all the benefits, all the bonus content 2899 02:19:11.719 --> 02:19:14.879 and the ad free listening experience. Pw torch dot com 2900 02:19:15.159 --> 02:19:22.799 slash go vi ip. Okay, let's touch on SmackDown again. 2901 02:19:22.959 --> 02:19:26.079 Kind of a big macro question. Who would have I 2902 02:19:26.120 --> 02:19:27.719 guess we talked about it earlier to a degree, but 2903 02:19:28.600 --> 02:19:34.159 it it's a watchable vincement, you know, quintessential. I can't 2904 02:19:34.319 --> 02:19:37.600 not think of the quintessential stud Muffin when I say that, 2905 02:19:37.719 --> 02:19:41.280 but the quintessential vincement Man Brus Pritchard show. And the 2906 02:19:41.440 --> 02:19:45.639 rating the viewership is fine but not where it should be, 2907 02:19:45.760 --> 02:19:49.079 but not in a panic state. And you know, you'd say, well, 2908 02:19:49.280 --> 02:19:53.440 you know, Rhonda and Brock and Roman there clearly, even 2909 02:19:53.440 --> 02:19:55.319 though it's a little surprising, both Becky and Charlotte, ron 2910 02:19:55.399 --> 02:19:58.200 raw Sasha and Bailey were hot off turns, You're like, 2911 02:19:58.639 --> 02:20:01.479 you know, and the Fiend. It's like, this was supposed 2912 02:20:01.520 --> 02:20:04.000 to be this star studded show. And you know, Danna 2913 02:20:04.040 --> 02:20:06.360 Bryant's been a pleasant surprise back in the old Daniel 2914 02:20:06.360 --> 02:20:09.440 Broyn role. But Ron is gone. Brock's gone. The Fiend 2915 02:20:09.520 --> 02:20:10.959 is sort of part time and you got to use 2916 02:20:11.000 --> 02:20:14.159 them in a different, non traditional way. And they have 2917 02:20:14.319 --> 02:20:17.760 no heels, and after you know, Brian and Rains, there's 2918 02:20:17.799 --> 02:20:19.520 not a lot there. Bron is sort of a special 2919 02:20:19.559 --> 02:20:22.239 attraction guy. I don't know, it just it does feel 2920 02:20:22.360 --> 02:20:24.319 like and Todd Martin predicted this, and he said last 2921 02:20:24.319 --> 02:20:26.120 week he was ready to take his victory lap that 2922 02:20:26.360 --> 02:20:29.840 ros still despite Roman reigns and The Fiend and Bronz Strowman. 2923 02:20:30.680 --> 02:20:32.840 Ro's the a show still despite being on Fox. And 2924 02:20:32.959 --> 02:20:34.360 you know we should whisper that because I don't think 2925 02:20:34.360 --> 02:20:36.440 Fox executives want to hear that no, And. 2926 02:20:36.799 --> 02:20:41.200 I don't think it's by design. I think that it's 2927 02:20:41.319 --> 02:20:45.159 what we always see with Vince. The bigger, the bigger 2928 02:20:45.239 --> 02:20:48.280 the show in his mind, the more he thinks he's 2929 02:20:48.360 --> 02:20:51.200 loading it up when they do a roster, split, a draft, 2930 02:20:51.280 --> 02:20:53.399 what have you, and it always works out that the 2931 02:20:53.520 --> 02:20:56.120 other brand gets all the workers and everyone that people 2932 02:20:56.159 --> 02:20:59.840 are excited about, and it's just that's the way it go. 2933 02:21:00.239 --> 02:21:02.440 So I think he when he split the brands up, 2934 02:21:02.479 --> 02:21:04.559 I think he looked at it and thought, for whatever reason, 2935 02:21:05.000 --> 02:21:07.719 he had SmackDown laid out the way he needed to. 2936 02:21:08.040 --> 02:21:11.159 And a lot of it was we got to protect Roman. 2937 02:21:11.319 --> 02:21:13.440 We can't have all these heels that people actually like. 2938 02:21:13.520 --> 02:21:16.840 We got to protect the Mighty Roman. And so that's 2939 02:21:16.920 --> 02:21:18.799 why I think you see kind of a shortage of 2940 02:21:18.879 --> 02:21:21.760 heeled depth there. You're going to get sham is coming 2941 02:21:21.879 --> 02:21:24.840 up at some point, you just know you will. Yeah, 2942 02:21:24.840 --> 02:21:27.000 I mean, so I think SmackDown is in a bad 2943 02:21:27.079 --> 02:21:30.399 place because of that, And I won't be surprised if 2944 02:21:30.399 --> 02:21:33.000 they do another draft or shake up at some point 2945 02:21:33.079 --> 02:21:36.280 soon and start to undo some of the good that's 2946 02:21:36.319 --> 02:21:38.639 been done on Raw. But I have more faith than 2947 02:21:38.680 --> 02:21:41.200 Paul Hayman creatively to just make up for it long 2948 02:21:41.319 --> 02:21:41.879 term anyway. 2949 02:21:42.879 --> 02:21:43.079 Yeah. 2950 02:21:43.319 --> 02:21:48.319 Yeah, So on SmackDown, where are we with the Fiend 2951 02:21:48.440 --> 02:21:54.319 and WrestleMania Roman? Yeah? And good lack with that? 2952 02:21:54.520 --> 02:21:55.760 I mean, you know, it's great. 2953 02:21:55.840 --> 02:21:58.440 The WrestleMania crowd, they're going to think the Fiend is 2954 02:21:58.520 --> 02:22:00.360 kind of cool and they don't like Roman. I mean 2955 02:22:00.399 --> 02:22:02.479 they booed him when he was coming back from leukemia 2956 02:22:02.559 --> 02:22:05.559 for the first time in WrestleMania that they don't like him. 2957 02:22:06.000 --> 02:22:09.680 You know, there's audiences they tolerate him. There's some audience 2958 02:22:09.760 --> 02:22:12.079 like the family friendly crowds that are going to SmackDown 2959 02:22:12.280 --> 02:22:12.600 like him. 2960 02:22:12.920 --> 02:22:14.159 But WrestleMania, I. 2961 02:22:14.200 --> 02:22:16.239 Mean, you heard it at the Rumble, there was already 2962 02:22:16.760 --> 02:22:19.399 there were already a lot of detractors there. Maybe they 2963 02:22:19.399 --> 02:22:22.440 don't care enough about the Universal Championship at this point 2964 02:22:22.479 --> 02:22:24.879 because it's just the way it's been booked that they 2965 02:22:24.920 --> 02:22:26.799 won't be as tough on this. But I don't see 2966 02:22:26.920 --> 02:22:29.879 like a groundswelve support for Roman reigns. I just think 2967 02:22:29.879 --> 02:22:31.440 it's going to be one of those Yeah, let's just 2968 02:22:31.479 --> 02:22:32.639 get this over with matches. 2969 02:22:33.719 --> 02:22:38.760 What could SmackDown do to spark the show? 2970 02:22:39.200 --> 02:22:42.159 Like, is fire Bruse portrait and Vince McMahon steps away? 2971 02:22:42.840 --> 02:22:47.840 Yeah, no, idea, that's it to me. Had they made 2972 02:22:47.879 --> 02:22:51.520 Daniel Brown champion and told that story and had the 2973 02:22:51.600 --> 02:22:54.639 Fiend off on the side in a very relevant feud, 2974 02:22:54.680 --> 02:22:59.760 but without the championship and found something for Rains that 2975 02:23:00.040 --> 02:23:04.239 felt important but didn't involve the world title, which would 2976 02:23:04.319 --> 02:23:09.799 involve getting some heels on that roster and maybe you know, 2977 02:23:09.920 --> 02:23:13.879 like again Rains and the USOS against a fresh and 2978 02:23:13.959 --> 02:23:17.360 truly formidable three man heel team that you can split 2979 02:23:17.399 --> 02:23:19.840 off and do some singles matches with and go that 2980 02:23:19.959 --> 02:23:22.879 direction for six months or so with Brian is champ 2981 02:23:23.120 --> 02:23:25.399 Fiend in the special attraction role, Braun in the special 2982 02:23:25.440 --> 02:23:30.920 attraction role, Rains in deeply personal feuds and delaying what 2983 02:23:31.120 --> 02:23:33.600 is still too soon and maybe I'll never be right 2984 02:23:33.639 --> 02:23:36.399 again with a fan base, you know, him being against 2985 02:23:36.399 --> 02:23:39.120 the Fiend in a world title matchup Mania, that to 2986 02:23:39.200 --> 02:23:40.959 me is sort of the the not you know, it's 2987 02:23:41.000 --> 02:23:44.799 not a complete overhaul like the Timber Miss Timberros did today, right, 2988 02:23:44.879 --> 02:23:47.559 but a tweak of given what you have and then 2989 02:23:47.639 --> 02:23:50.079 just trying to find a way to get some heels 2990 02:23:50.079 --> 02:23:53.559 over there that matter, because I mean, and again a 2991 02:23:54.079 --> 02:23:56.600 new day, He'll turn would be in the mix. The 2992 02:23:56.680 --> 02:23:59.040 other thing, and it's it's it's always been enough on 2993 02:23:59.079 --> 02:24:01.360 the table his Turnarrains he you know, go with Brian 2994 02:24:01.399 --> 02:24:04.959 as champion and have Reins lose to the Fiend in 2995 02:24:05.040 --> 02:24:08.120 a non title matchup Mania and then Rains goes heal 2996 02:24:08.120 --> 02:24:09.760 because a lot of people change after they wrestle with 2997 02:24:09.760 --> 02:24:11.319 the Fiend. You might have heard that, Jason, Yeah, And 2998 02:24:12.120 --> 02:24:14.879 then and then use that at Brian fighting for Underneath 2999 02:24:14.920 --> 02:24:17.280 and you're trying to keep Rains from getting the belt, 3000 02:24:17.520 --> 02:24:18.959 Like I think there's some things they can do. And 3001 02:24:19.000 --> 02:24:21.159 then you know, also just you know, strengthening the outer 3002 02:24:21.239 --> 02:24:22.799 card by doing a better job of Seamus out of 3003 02:24:22.840 --> 02:24:24.879 the gate than they've done. And by the way, protect 3004 02:24:24.959 --> 02:24:27.360 Nakamura and Cesarro more than they have, right, you know 3005 02:24:27.440 --> 02:24:31.239 that lost by Nakamura. I just there's there's so many 3006 02:24:31.399 --> 02:24:36.200 things that that they're doing that that diminish how important 3007 02:24:36.399 --> 02:24:39.159 everything but the top one or two programs. Other than 3008 02:24:39.159 --> 02:24:41.559 the top one or two programs, it doesn't feel important enough. 3009 02:24:42.120 --> 02:24:44.319 No, I mean, and does anyone care that bron Stroman 3010 02:24:44.360 --> 02:24:46.239 won the Intercondinental title? And it just goes to show 3011 02:24:46.319 --> 02:24:48.760 they I think they said Knakamura held the title for 3012 02:24:48.840 --> 02:24:51.399 one hundred and ninety nine days and like there wasn't 3013 02:24:51.440 --> 02:24:53.959 one memorable moment in that one hundred and ninety nine days, 3014 02:24:54.120 --> 02:24:56.719 and so Ron beating him to win that title just 3015 02:24:57.280 --> 02:24:57.959 didn't matter. 3016 02:24:58.079 --> 02:24:59.120 It was like, okay, great. 3017 02:25:00.319 --> 02:25:02.040 When you form a new tag team while you're in 3018 02:25:02.040 --> 02:25:05.319 anental champion and you're knowing more for that tag team, 3019 02:25:05.559 --> 02:25:09.600 it's not a particularly memorable trade. So yeah, I mean, 3020 02:25:09.639 --> 02:25:11.399 I don't know, don't Is there anything more you want 3021 02:25:11.399 --> 02:25:12.600 to say about Smacdell. 3022 02:25:12.879 --> 02:25:14.959 Shortyg is the worst gimmick in years. 3023 02:25:15.239 --> 02:25:18.920 I feel horrible for Chad Gable and I mean that 3024 02:25:19.159 --> 02:25:20.959 just tells me everything I need to know about the 3025 02:25:21.000 --> 02:25:22.959 creative forces that are really running that show. 3026 02:25:27.639 --> 02:25:30.319 Do you remember when Hulk Hogan shocked the world and 3027 02:25:30.520 --> 02:25:33.200 formed the New World Order or when Stone Cold Steve 3028 02:25:33.239 --> 02:25:36.159 Austin passed down on the Sharpshooter to break the hit 3029 02:25:36.280 --> 02:25:39.799 Man heart. I'm Torch contributor Frank petty Any and I've 3030 02:25:39.879 --> 02:25:44.040 reviewed these shows and many more for my exclusive VIP podcast, 3031 02:25:44.200 --> 02:25:47.200 Pro Wrestling Than and Now. Together with a rotating chair 3032 02:25:47.239 --> 02:25:50.639 of co hosts, we go back ten, twenty, even thirty years, 3033 02:25:51.159 --> 02:25:53.959 review pay per views from top to bottom, talk about 3034 02:25:53.959 --> 02:25:56.479 where the wrestlers were at the time, and compare what 3035 02:25:56.639 --> 02:25:59.239 took place then to what is taking place now. You 3036 02:25:59.319 --> 02:26:02.840 get exclusive access to these and other podcasts as part 3037 02:26:02.879 --> 02:26:06.399 of your PW Torch vip membership, which is compatible with 3038 02:26:06.479 --> 02:26:10.239 the Apple Podcasts app. Visit pwtorch dot com slash go 3039 02:26:10.399 --> 02:26:12.639 vip for details and sign up. 3040 02:26:12.559 --> 02:26:22.079 For Okay, so let's talk about the XFL a little bit. 3041 02:26:23.000 --> 02:26:27.000 You are a big NFL fan. Where are you on 3042 02:26:27.479 --> 02:26:31.079 your anticipation for the XFL, both as kind of a 3043 02:26:31.159 --> 02:26:35.639 curiosity this weekend and the sustainable their ability to to 3044 02:26:36.000 --> 02:26:39.520 get you invested as a as a sustaining view a 3045 02:26:39.600 --> 02:26:42.000 viewer who watches on a weekly basis and sustain your interest. 3046 02:26:42.120 --> 02:26:45.239 I'm only watching a quarter because I feel obligated, and 3047 02:26:45.360 --> 02:26:47.479 I'll go into it, you know, as open minded as 3048 02:26:47.520 --> 02:26:49.479 I can, like, Hey, if it's good, maybe watch more. 3049 02:26:49.680 --> 02:26:51.799 But I'm going to force myself to watch a quarter 3050 02:26:51.920 --> 02:26:54.799 this weekend. I have no interest in this. 3051 02:26:55.280 --> 02:26:57.760 This is players I don't know for the most part, 3052 02:26:58.159 --> 02:27:00.239 players I don't care about for the most part, playing 3053 02:27:00.280 --> 02:27:03.159 for teams that I have no attachment to whatsoever. And 3054 02:27:03.239 --> 02:27:06.719 it's all second rate. And I just watched the peak 3055 02:27:06.840 --> 02:27:08.840 of the NFL season and it was a great game. 3056 02:27:09.959 --> 02:27:13.239 And I mean, this is just if they can find 3057 02:27:13.399 --> 02:27:16.000 enough money in television and streaming to keep this afloat, 3058 02:27:16.719 --> 02:27:20.239 good for them. This is not catching on the idea 3059 02:27:20.280 --> 02:27:23.040 of doing this right right after the Super Bowl, Like 3060 02:27:23.120 --> 02:27:25.079 I get the idea. I thought there would have been 3061 02:27:25.120 --> 02:27:27.639 some buzz for this during the Super Bowl, like Fox 3062 02:27:27.760 --> 02:27:29.760 advertising their coverage more than they did. 3063 02:27:30.319 --> 02:27:31.600 Nobody's talking about this. 3064 02:27:31.799 --> 02:27:33.879 I finally saw a headline in one of the football 3065 02:27:33.920 --> 02:27:35.879 sites that I go to, and it's a site that 3066 02:27:35.920 --> 02:27:39.040 has been kind of pro XFL and believing at different 3067 02:27:39.079 --> 02:27:41.719 points that this could be successful. This is the first 3068 02:27:41.719 --> 02:27:44.120 time all week I've seen any kind of an XFL 3069 02:27:44.200 --> 02:27:46.719 headline on there. They're doing a terrible job with this, 3070 02:27:46.840 --> 02:27:49.280 he says. They have almost four hundred employees. I don't 3071 02:27:49.280 --> 02:27:51.600 know what the hell they're doing. It's sure as hell, 3072 02:27:51.719 --> 02:27:52.360 isn't marketing. 3073 02:27:53.239 --> 02:27:55.719 I mean, I guess does that count the people in 3074 02:27:55.840 --> 02:27:58.840 charge of like carrying the equipment from city to city. 3075 02:27:59.000 --> 02:28:01.639 It must. I think this is just the rollout for 3076 02:28:01.719 --> 02:28:02.840 this is beyond bad. 3077 02:28:04.000 --> 02:28:06.840 Yeah. No, if you're a WWE viewer, I mean, if 3078 02:28:06.840 --> 02:28:08.440 you have a house shows. I mean, they've been running ads, 3079 02:28:08.520 --> 02:28:10.799 like you know, at live events for the XFL, But 3080 02:28:11.159 --> 02:28:13.319 I don't know if there's concern like if they run 3081 02:28:13.520 --> 02:28:16.680 XFL ads on TV, does the XFL need to pay 3082 02:28:16.840 --> 02:28:19.799 WWE for that because of the uproar over you know, 3083 02:28:20.120 --> 02:28:24.520 the really truly keeping them separate would is part of 3084 02:28:24.559 --> 02:28:27.760 the lack of hype on WWE television because of concern 3085 02:28:27.879 --> 02:28:31.479 that investors had that WWE was giving away promotion for 3086 02:28:31.559 --> 02:28:35.200 this outside company on promotion that they should be selling. 3087 02:28:35.360 --> 02:28:37.920 And did that actually discourage Vince from promoting the XFL 3088 02:28:37.959 --> 02:28:38.680 to his own audience. 3089 02:28:38.840 --> 02:28:41.000 It might, but I mean even if he can, I 3090 02:28:41.079 --> 02:28:42.040 just don't think people care. 3091 02:28:44.079 --> 02:28:48.719 Yeah, I'm I'll probably watch more than a quarter. But 3092 02:28:50.239 --> 02:28:52.879 you know, like the original incarnation, the original incarnation was 3093 02:28:52.920 --> 02:28:57.399 a circus, you know, Jesse vent Turrett, Jim Ross, cheerleaders 3094 02:28:57.440 --> 02:28:59.319 having affairs with quarterbacks. I mean it was just like, 3095 02:28:59.760 --> 02:29:03.360 it's just like, you couldn't have come up with a better, 3096 02:29:04.200 --> 02:29:06.559 a more out of touch, tone deaf way to launch 3097 02:29:07.360 --> 02:29:09.639 counter to a league that Vince thought nobody had fun 3098 02:29:09.719 --> 02:29:12.120 watching because it's no fun league, when the truth was 3099 02:29:12.239 --> 02:29:14.719 it was wildly popular, and the way to launch an 3100 02:29:14.719 --> 02:29:17.120 alternate wasn't to rip on the product that people loved, 3101 02:29:17.639 --> 02:29:20.760 but just market it as essentially an extension of it 3102 02:29:21.239 --> 02:29:24.600 with some fun things thrown in. And you know, I 3103 02:29:24.719 --> 02:29:27.319 still say the dumbest thing they ever did is the 3104 02:29:27.399 --> 02:29:29.000 non football people said, we're going to make it more 3105 02:29:29.000 --> 02:29:31.440 exciting by loosening up on all those defensive rules. And 3106 02:29:31.479 --> 02:29:33.559 then they wondered why games were six to three because 3107 02:29:34.159 --> 02:29:38.920 wide receivers are basically being tackled by defenders who because 3108 02:29:38.920 --> 02:29:41.399 they wouldn't get penalized. Like they loosened up the rules, 3109 02:29:41.440 --> 02:29:42.879 think you would make it a harder hitting game. And 3110 02:29:42.920 --> 02:29:45.319 what it did is it prevented passes from connecting to anybody. 3111 02:29:45.440 --> 02:29:47.440 Well, and now they're having all these quirky rules. 3112 02:29:47.520 --> 02:29:49.120 And I mean, some of them may turn out to 3113 02:29:49.159 --> 02:29:50.959 be good, and if they are, they'll be adopted by 3114 02:29:51.040 --> 02:29:54.200 the NFL. But I mean it's just now they're trying 3115 02:29:54.239 --> 02:29:56.319 to reinvent the wheel with football, is what I'm with 3116 02:29:56.399 --> 02:29:57.040 this rule book. 3117 02:29:57.040 --> 02:29:58.319 I tried to read through and I gave up. It 3118 02:29:58.440 --> 02:29:59.239 was like, this is dumb. 3119 02:30:00.239 --> 02:30:02.920 What's w's spin a wheel? Make a deal? Give it called? 3120 02:30:03.760 --> 02:30:07.920 Oh done that in a while, Rolette, Yah, thank you, 3121 02:30:08.399 --> 02:30:11.959 we need XFL roulette. You know, spin the wheel. Cornerback 3122 02:30:12.079 --> 02:30:14.319 has to throw with his left hand if he's right handed, 3123 02:30:14.920 --> 02:30:18.559 for you know, a third down of choosing by the 3124 02:30:18.639 --> 02:30:21.600 other team right the coach has to go in and 3125 02:30:21.600 --> 02:30:23.840 play offensive lineman for the opening, you know, for one 3126 02:30:23.879 --> 02:30:25.760 of the players, like just do crazy stuff. You know, 3127 02:30:25.799 --> 02:30:28.000 I wouldn't. I wouldn't rule out any of that because 3128 02:30:28.079 --> 02:30:29.719 with a mistic man running it, even if the football 3129 02:30:29.719 --> 02:30:31.760 people will scoff if the ratings aren't where they need 3130 02:30:31.840 --> 02:30:34.000 to be. This is this is Vince trying to fix 3131 02:30:34.079 --> 02:30:35.159 something that he's embarrassed by. 3132 02:30:35.559 --> 02:30:38.840 Yeah, this is uh. I have no hope, no expectation 3133 02:30:38.920 --> 02:30:39.879 of this doing well at all. 3134 02:30:42.520 --> 02:30:46.479 Rh Are they making a comeback? Are they worth? You know, 3135 02:30:46.520 --> 02:30:48.840 we talk about Raw being a show on the comeback 3136 02:30:48.840 --> 02:30:50.280 and people should try to they gave up on it 3137 02:30:51.079 --> 02:30:53.639 is RHTV in that category yet with you, Jason, with 3138 02:30:53.799 --> 02:30:56.840 some uh, you know, revitalized format changes on the booking 3139 02:30:56.959 --> 02:30:58.399 scene and some new names. 3140 02:30:58.680 --> 02:31:00.840 I'd like to tell you, but I mean, you know, 3141 02:31:00.959 --> 02:31:03.559 they're having their free enterprise show, which is great if 3142 02:31:03.559 --> 02:31:06.799 you live in Baltimore. It's the big relaunch of their show. 3143 02:31:06.879 --> 02:31:08.799 But oh, you have to be an Honor Club subscriber 3144 02:31:08.840 --> 02:31:10.959 to see the big relaunch of a Ring of Honor. 3145 02:31:11.159 --> 02:31:12.120 This is a dumb approach. 3146 02:31:13.600 --> 02:31:15.520 What have you thought of what you've seen so far? 3147 02:31:15.799 --> 02:31:18.239 Five six weeks into the year, though, there's nothing. 3148 02:31:18.000 --> 02:31:20.479 About television yet because it's so dated, you know, it's 3149 02:31:20.520 --> 02:31:23.600 so it's rh TV. 3150 02:31:23.959 --> 02:31:25.399 It's just as bad as it's been. 3151 02:31:25.760 --> 02:31:27.920 They're straying a little bit from all the highlights, and 3152 02:31:27.959 --> 02:31:29.920 they're starting to give you more of the three match approach. 3153 02:31:30.000 --> 02:31:32.600 But two of the last three weeks have featured Master 3154 02:31:32.799 --> 02:31:36.200 and the Machine and enhancement matches. I mean, they're giving 3155 02:31:36.479 --> 02:31:39.920 enhancement guys more time than their stars. There's very little 3156 02:31:39.920 --> 02:31:42.840 star power on the show. I mean not that RWH 3157 02:31:42.920 --> 02:31:45.200 has a lot of star power, but even like the 3158 02:31:45.360 --> 02:31:47.840 stars of the brand, they're not appearing on the show 3159 02:31:47.920 --> 02:31:48.440 often enough. 3160 02:31:48.760 --> 02:31:51.760 Reck Height has just got to win. It's bad. 3161 02:31:52.280 --> 02:31:54.719 I mean, I hope it gets better, but they if 3162 02:31:54.760 --> 02:31:56.360 you're really going to do a relaunch and you want 3163 02:31:56.399 --> 02:31:58.040 people to get excited about it, you find a way 3164 02:31:58.079 --> 02:31:59.360 to put that show out there for free. 3165 02:32:00.520 --> 02:32:01.760 So I'll put you down for a no on that. 3166 02:32:01.920 --> 02:32:04.879 Who are Roh's top six guys right now? 3167 02:32:05.879 --> 02:32:15.399 Oh, Pco, Marty Squirrel, Bandido Rouche, and I'm probably forgetting 3168 02:32:15.479 --> 02:32:16.719 people beyond. 3169 02:32:16.559 --> 02:32:19.079 That, Jeff Cobb and the Briscos and that. 3170 02:32:19.399 --> 02:32:20.959 Yeah, I don't know how long Jeff Cobb is going 3171 02:32:21.040 --> 02:32:23.120 to be there. I guess the Brisco's by default. I 3172 02:32:23.159 --> 02:32:25.680 mean they just they're the Briskos, you know, I mean 3173 02:32:25.719 --> 02:32:28.840 they they're always around and they would mean more elsewhere, 3174 02:32:28.920 --> 02:32:30.799 but you know, they seem content being there. 3175 02:32:31.879 --> 02:32:34.680 H we'res Dalton Castle at this point, the precursor to 3176 02:32:34.760 --> 02:32:37.799 velveteen Dream and a champion for a while with an 3177 02:32:37.879 --> 02:32:41.479 injury riddled Ron. He's you know, he's he's in the 3178 02:32:41.559 --> 02:32:43.959 mix now is do they have him moved way down 3179 02:32:44.000 --> 02:32:45.959 the card in your eye? Or is he someone who 3180 02:32:46.040 --> 02:32:48.799 you could imagine being top six as a Euro goes forward. 3181 02:32:48.959 --> 02:32:51.680 I don't think it's happening. I think the thrill has 3182 02:32:51.760 --> 02:32:54.479 kind of gone there. The boys aren't there anymore. Returned 3183 02:32:54.479 --> 02:32:56.959 to Heel, it didn't go well. Fans didn't want to 3184 02:32:56.959 --> 02:32:59.000 boo him, but they also aren't that into him either. 3185 02:32:59.360 --> 02:33:01.319 And now he's in like this comedic tag team that 3186 02:33:01.440 --> 02:33:02.799 just doesn't seem to be going anywhere. 3187 02:33:03.440 --> 02:33:06.959 Yeah yeah, Flip Gordon, how does he look going into 3188 02:33:07.000 --> 02:33:07.479 twenty twenty? 3189 02:33:07.879 --> 02:33:11.479 Completely wasted as the fourth member of Villain Enterprises. He 3190 02:33:11.680 --> 02:33:14.639 was their young pretty boy baby face with the military 3191 02:33:14.719 --> 02:33:17.520 background and so roh booking being what it is, let's 3192 02:33:17.520 --> 02:33:20.639 turn him Heel and just make him a bland assassin 3193 02:33:20.760 --> 02:33:21.920 hype who doesn't say anything. 3194 02:33:23.000 --> 02:33:25.959 Yeah, yep, what else? 3195 02:33:26.040 --> 02:33:26.200 Jace? 3196 02:33:26.200 --> 02:33:27.680 So what do you think of the new w signings? 3197 02:33:28.680 --> 02:33:30.479 I like both. 3198 02:33:30.559 --> 02:33:34.799 I think Killer Cross has tremendous upside. I loved him 3199 02:33:34.799 --> 02:33:36.479 and Impact Russ. I don't know what they'll call him 3200 02:33:36.479 --> 02:33:39.719 a WWE, so I think that's a great signing. Timothy 3201 02:33:39.799 --> 02:33:42.399 Thatcher is a guy that AEW should Maybe they did, 3202 02:33:42.440 --> 02:33:44.040 but they should have made a real play for He 3203 02:33:44.159 --> 02:33:46.399 would fill a need for them. They need some guys 3204 02:33:46.440 --> 02:33:48.719 who can work a Matt based style to kind of 3205 02:33:48.799 --> 02:33:52.040 counter all the more high flying type of stuff that 3206 02:33:52.120 --> 02:33:52.319 they do. 3207 02:33:52.920 --> 02:33:55.559 They still have a need for that, And I don't know. 3208 02:33:55.959 --> 02:33:58.479 I think he Thatcher strikes me as a guy that's 3209 02:33:58.479 --> 02:34:00.520 going to probably do well in NX and that's going 3210 02:34:00.600 --> 02:34:01.879 to be the peak of it, because I can't see 3211 02:34:01.959 --> 02:34:05.520 Vince McMahon getting into, you know, a thirty six year 3212 02:34:05.520 --> 02:34:08.799 old Matt based wrestler who doesn't have Kurt Angle's charisma. 3213 02:34:09.719 --> 02:34:12.959 Right, when you think about AW in the free agent market, 3214 02:34:13.079 --> 02:34:16.920 is not signing Cross us should people read into that 3215 02:34:16.959 --> 02:34:18.479 as a sign that AW is not going to be 3216 02:34:18.479 --> 02:34:22.120 a serious bidder for the the I guess the equivalent 3217 02:34:22.200 --> 02:34:24.440 prior would be Sentent and Ortiz, which they did score. 3218 02:34:24.799 --> 02:34:27.399 No, I don't think so, because I mean, you'd have 3219 02:34:27.479 --> 02:34:29.840 to go back to when Scarlett Bordeaux signed with NXT, 3220 02:34:30.120 --> 02:34:34.520 and that's his girlfriend. Once that happened, I think realistically, 3221 02:34:34.600 --> 02:34:36.719 I mean, you know, there's there's some couples who work 3222 02:34:36.760 --> 02:34:39.520 different places, but for the most I think at that 3223 02:34:39.639 --> 02:34:41.920 point most of us were just like, ah, he's probably 3224 02:34:41.959 --> 02:34:45.479 going to follow once he's contractually able, and that's what 3225 02:34:45.600 --> 02:34:47.559 he did. So I don't I mean, they should have 3226 02:34:47.600 --> 02:34:49.879 made a play. Hopefully they did. I assume they did, 3227 02:34:50.000 --> 02:34:53.360 because he's been backstage, like they're events like in Vegas 3228 02:34:53.399 --> 02:34:55.559 in the past, at least one of them, so they 3229 02:34:55.600 --> 02:34:56.600 probably made it play. 3230 02:34:56.639 --> 02:34:59.360 But you know, it's he if she wanted to be 3231 02:34:59.399 --> 02:35:00.879 there and he wanted to to be there, not much you. 3232 02:35:00.879 --> 02:35:05.159 Can do, Yeah, yep, anything else you want to cover? 3233 02:35:05.319 --> 02:35:07.639 Jason, No, I think that takes care of everything. 3234 02:35:08.040 --> 02:35:08.239 Yeah. 3235 02:35:08.360 --> 02:35:11.879 Cool, All right, So we'll wrap up there again. Check 3236 02:35:11.920 --> 02:35:14.840 out Jason's website Pro Wrestling dot Net a ton of 3237 02:35:14.920 --> 02:35:17.600 if you want to get more on the w WB 3238 02:35:17.719 --> 02:35:20.159 financials and the Vin's conference call. All the highlights are there. 3239 02:35:20.200 --> 02:35:22.079 We certainly talked about a lot of it, but not everything. 3240 02:35:22.680 --> 02:35:25.760 And uh yeah you're you're just breaking news and live 3241 02:35:25.799 --> 02:35:28.200 TV coverage and of course links to all your podcasts too. 3242 02:35:28.280 --> 02:35:32.200 But people should check out Pro Wrestling Boom. The you know, 3243 02:35:32.319 --> 02:35:36.440 diverse mix of people, interviews you get are It's always 3244 02:35:36.440 --> 02:35:38.000 fun to see who's gonna be on this this coming 3245 02:35:38.159 --> 02:35:39.559 each week when when you drop that. 3246 02:35:40.000 --> 02:35:42.639 Yeah, and again, if anybody has any questions or just 3247 02:35:42.680 --> 02:35:45.040 wants to follow me in general at Pro Wrestling Net 3248 02:35:45.879 --> 02:35:47.159 on Twitter, you got it. 3249 02:35:47.639 --> 02:36:09.559 Yep, cool, Thanks Jason, Thank you. Invite you to email 3250 02:36:09.600 --> 02:36:12.239 the show with feedback or questions or comments. That email 3251 02:36:12.280 --> 02:36:17.280 address is Wadekeller Podcast at petwtorch dot com. That's Wadekeller 3252 02:36:17.319 --> 02:36:20.959 Podcast at pwtorch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. 3253 02:36:21.159 --> 02:36:24.360 Even follow us on Twitter at PW torch and follow 3254 02:36:24.440 --> 02:36:27.920 me at the Wade Keller That's at PW Torch and 3255 02:36:28.159 --> 02:36:29.319 at the Wadekeller. 3256 02:36:31.360 --> 02:36:34.319 Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me 3257 02:36:34.479 --> 02:36:38.000 Jason Powell, host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom podcast. 3258 02:36:38.440 --> 02:36:40.719 Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from 3259 02:36:40.760 --> 02:36:42.799 me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need along 3260 02:36:42.879 --> 02:36:45.799 with other pro wrestling media members, plus the Pro Wrestling 3261 02:36:45.840 --> 02:36:49.159 Boom podcast features long form interviews with notable names in 3262 02:36:49.200 --> 02:36:52.879 the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and 3263 02:36:52.959 --> 02:36:56.079 all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at 3264 02:36:56.120 --> 02:36:59.719 PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW Boom. 3265 02:37:02.280 --> 02:37:04.200 Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we 3266 02:37:04.239 --> 02:37:08.799 also have a website, pw torch dot com. Daily news updates, editorials, 3267 02:37:09.159 --> 02:37:12.159 and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown 3268 02:37:12.440 --> 02:37:16.159 and my live pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW. 3269 02:37:16.680 --> 02:37:18.719 Create a tab or bookmark make it a daily stop. 3270 02:37:18.920 --> 02:37:21.040 Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up 3271 02:37:21.079 --> 02:37:25.120 on breaking news and more. That's PW torch dot com. 3272 02:37:26.120 --> 02:37:29.159 Meet an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts, 3273 02:37:29.440 --> 02:37:32.520 will come join me Alan fourrel Over in the Progress 3274 02:37:32.600 --> 02:37:36.079 Paradise at Pterbeo Torch vip as we mask on the 3275 02:37:36.239 --> 02:37:38.799 bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the 3276 02:37:38.920 --> 02:37:43.319 great matches and shows from around the world, be it US, Japan, 3277 02:37:43.719 --> 02:37:47.239 Europe or Mexico. 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We hope 3296 02:38:43.399 --> 02:38:46.079 you think we've earned that score with our fast turnaround 3297 02:38:46.120 --> 02:38:49.760 times and our quantity and quality of wrestling analysis throughout 3298 02:38:49.840 --> 02:38:52.079 the week. So take a moment out for us and 3299 02:38:52.159 --> 02:38:54.399 do us favor and give us a five star rating 3300 02:38:54.440 --> 02:38:57.040 and Apple Podcasts that helps us on search returns and 3301 02:38:57.159 --> 02:38:59.440 helps us grow. And if you want, you can add 3302 02:38:59.479 --> 02:39:01.399 a few comments about what you like about the programs 3303 02:39:01.440 --> 02:39:03.200 in the comments section. Thank you so much. 3304 02:39:06.760 --> 02:39:10.840 In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and 3305 02:39:11.040 --> 02:39:14.360 ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP 3306 02:39:14.600 --> 02:39:18.600 podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly 3307 02:39:18.719 --> 02:39:21.159 look at this page in NXT's early history. 3308 02:39:22.120 --> 02:39:25.319 Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks 3309 02:39:25.399 --> 02:39:28.079 NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to 3310 02:39:28.200 --> 02:39:30.879 the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they 3311 02:39:30.920 --> 02:39:34.799 did or didn't work out Exclusively for PW Torch VIP members. 3312 02:39:36.000 --> 02:39:38.360 PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you ad free 3313 02:39:38.399 --> 02:39:40.319 access to these shows and a ton of other VIP 3314 02:39:40.440 --> 02:39:43.040 exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain access 3315 02:39:43.079 --> 02:39:47.200 to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our contemporaneous 3316 02:39:47.239 --> 02:39:49.799 week to week coverage through our progressing Torch Weekly newsletters 3317 02:39:49.879 --> 02:39:52.479 dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with streaming 3318 02:39:52.520 --> 02:39:55.799 and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows from 3319 02:39:55.799 --> 02:39:58.920 the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with wrestling's 3320 02:39:58.959 --> 02:40:03.079 top newsmakers in the and also our podcast library dating 3321 02:40:03.120 --> 02:40:05.440 back to the year two thousand and three. 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