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That's Chumbuck Casino dot com. 23 00:00:57.520 --> 00:01:00.000 No, we're necessarily dally repoid where everybody lost terms condition. 24 00:01:07.719 --> 00:01:11.159 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 25 00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:14.280 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 26 00:01:14.359 --> 00:01:21.640 written about them Geese, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK every 27 00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:25.359 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 28 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:29.640 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 29 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:34.280 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 30 00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:47.599 Good Evening Coca Story is based on the brutal murder 31 00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:51.439 of a housewife in the Denver suburbs in nineteen seventy three. 32 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:55.680 A college student back then, Stephanie Kane, was more than 33 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:59.359 a witness to this terrible crime. For nearly thirty years, 34 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:02.959 she remains then. In two thousand and one, she tried 35 00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:05.959 to exercise the crime by fictionalizing it in a mystery 36 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:10.039 novel called Quiet Time. But instead of laying the murder 37 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:13.120 to rest, Quiet Time brought it rowing back to life. 38 00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:17.520 Cold Case Story is about a family that fractured along 39 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:21.400 the fault lines of a murder. It's about fiction colliding 40 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:25.039 with a cold, hard crime and the very personal story 41 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:29.840 of how it feels, the ping pong between participant and observer, 42 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:33.919 novelist and witness to one's own an easy set of facts. 43 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:38.879 In the end, all are punished, even the guilty. The 44 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:41.719 book that we're featuring this evening is Cold Case Story 45 00:02:42.319 --> 00:02:45.560 with my special guest journalist and author, Stephanie Kine. Welcome 46 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:47.680 to the program, and thank you very much for this interview. 47 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:49.199 Stephanie Kane. 48 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:52.159 Thanks for having me, Dan. 49 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:57.639 Thank you so much for joining us. Let's get right 50 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:03.319 to this exciting story and very detailed and complex as well, 51 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:07.120 I might add, and your participation in this incredible story. 52 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:13.080 Let's get right to June nineteen seventy three, June eighth, 53 00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:16.919 I believe and tell us who you were living with. 54 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:20.719 Tell us the living arrangements. You had a fiance named Doug, 55 00:03:21.639 --> 00:03:28.319 and this is in Boulder, Colorado. His mother called. But 56 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:33.319 give us the background on your situation at that time 57 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:39.520 and Betty and Dwayne fry situation at that time. Give 58 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:44.439 us the information that was given to them about your pregnancy. 59 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:50.000 Give us your status in terms of where your marriage was, 60 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:53.319 in terms of planning. Give us that background before we 61 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:58.520 get into June nineteen seventy three, June eighth, So I 62 00:03:59.360 --> 00:03:59.840 had just. 63 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:05.159 To the University of Colorado and Boulder. I grew up 64 00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:10.280 in New York, Brooklyn. I basically came to Colorado because 65 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:13.360 it was two thousand miles away from my folks. It 66 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:16.040 was the only place I applied. I knew nothing about it, 67 00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:19.800 and of course, you know, I fell in love with 68 00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:22.720 the guy I met in a karate class who was 69 00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:28.240 as different from me as anything I could imagine, and 70 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:32.120 we started dating in our I guess it was our 71 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:36.680 freshman year, and he brought me home to meet his parents, 72 00:04:36.759 --> 00:04:41.480 and they were very, very different from my family. I'm Jewish, 73 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:45.879 so you know, we were ethnically as different as can be, 74 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:49.959 which was part of the attraction. I think his family 75 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:57.560 was Catholic. His mother was very something sort of out 76 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:02.079 of the pages of No Better Homes and Gardens. She had. 77 00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:08.920 She was very beautifully put together, blonde, et cetera. His father, Dwayne, 78 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:13.399 was an engineer who worked at Martin Marietta, very buttoned 79 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:19.000 down and domineering. And you know, so I was, you know, 80 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:22.959 the girlfriends, and Doug brought me home. We had dinner 81 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:26.000 with his parents on the way back to the ball 82 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:30.160 that we were living together in a little apartment off 83 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:32.839 the hill in Boulder, which is like a student district, 84 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:38.120 and his parents knew that we were living together, and 85 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:41.680 you know, I we drive home and I'd be crying, Oh, 86 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:45.519 they'll never accept me. Blah blah blah. Anyway to cut 87 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:49.040 it short, get cut to the chase. In June nineteen 88 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:53.240 seventy three, we were engaged to be married, and I 89 00:05:53.279 --> 00:05:59.079 had gotten pregnant earlier that year and had had an abortion, 90 00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:03.480 and it was right after, like literally within a week 91 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:06.600 or two after Roe versus Wade was decided, So it 92 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:10.639 was a legal abortion, and you know, nevertheless it was 93 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:14.360 a wrenching decision, but it had the effect of pulling 94 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:17.680 us closer together and making us more committed to having 95 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:22.879 a life together. So we got engaged and we were 96 00:06:23.079 --> 00:06:29.319 set to be married that June. We informed his parents 97 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:32.839 and you know, they were certainly not thrilled because there 98 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:40.040 were cultural and ethnic differences. And then Doug decided to 99 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:44.079 tell them about the abortion, and I you know, he 100 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:47.079 didn't run it by me first or anything, because that 101 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:50.040 would certainly have made it impossible for them ever to 102 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:52.800 accept me. So you know, it was not something I 103 00:06:52.839 --> 00:06:56.240 thought they needed to know. Or should know, and that 104 00:06:56.439 --> 00:07:00.720 was like right before Mother's Day that may. Things between 105 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:04.839 us were very very tense leading up to the murder. 106 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:08.399 On the day of the murder, it was a Saturday morning, 107 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:13.360 the first or second Saturday in June, so just a gorgeous, beautiful, 108 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:16.680 hot day, and Doug was teaching classes at the karate 109 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:21.319 studio where we met. I was taking some summer courses 110 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:23.800 so I could graduate earlier from college. We were both 111 00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:28.560 college students. And that morning, after Doug had left to 112 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:32.800 go to the karate studio, Betty called and it was 113 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:36.480 it was completely out of the blue as far as 114 00:07:36.519 --> 00:07:41.000 I was concerned, because you know, she had never called 115 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:44.480 our number before, and she did not like acknowledging that 116 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:47.959 we were living together, and you know, it was really 117 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:52.600 just a hot point, and she wanted to know, you know, 118 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:54.160 if we could get in touch with one of his 119 00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:56.959 older sisters who was also living in Boulder and apparently 120 00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:59.920 didn't have a thong as I was a very short, 121 00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:03.120 no food conversation. I think actually Doug was in the 122 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:05.680 shower when she called, but anyway, I was the one 123 00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:09.240 who spoke to her, and you know, his take on 124 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:13.079 it was, well, maybe she's finally coming around to their wedding, 125 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:15.519 because at that point we didn't even know that she 126 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:19.360 would be attending the wedding anyway. So a couple of 127 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:23.279 hours later, I went to meet Doug at the karate 128 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:28.199 studio and his father, Dwayne was there, which was another 129 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:31.959 total shock because we had no idea he was coming. 130 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:36.639 It's about an hour drive from where his parents moved 131 00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:39.600 to Boulder, so it wasn't like just a you know, 132 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:43.039 a casual kind of thing where you just drop by. 133 00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:46.840 And he had a bruise on his forehead, and he 134 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:51.360 was wearing dark clothing, a long sleeved shirt and a 135 00:08:51.440 --> 00:08:56.039 T shirt underneath, and it just, you know, I mean, 136 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:58.000 it was shocking to kind of see in there because 137 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:01.639 they weren't really acknowledging that we were living together and 138 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:05.480 things were tense between us, and he had this big 139 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:07.799 old bruise on his forehead, and he was just such 140 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:11.879 an immaculate person that, you know, I mean, it just 141 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:14.720 really jumped out of me. Also, I had just walked 142 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:17.000 down the hill and I was sweating, and I was 143 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:19.759 wearing shorts and a T shirt and here he was 144 00:09:19.799 --> 00:09:24.200 in these dark clothes, and you know, I asked him 145 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:26.399 about his bruis, and he said that he had been 146 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:28.799 doing some house cleaning with Betty that morning and a 147 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:32.399 chair had fought, a lawn chair or something had fallen 148 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:36.639 on his head from a shelf or something, and you know, 149 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:40.120 the whole thing was just very bizarre. Then it was 150 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:45.200 also bizarre because his ostensible reason for being in Boulder 151 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:49.960 was to pick up Doug's thirteen year old brother, who 152 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:53.720 had taken the bus from where his parents lived to 153 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:57.360 Boulder that morning to take a karate class from his 154 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:01.840 big brother Doug. As far as we knew, we were 155 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:04.039 going to put him on a bus to go back. 156 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:08.320 So Dwayne showing up to pick Greg up made no sense. 157 00:10:08.440 --> 00:10:11.240 And then you know what happened next made even less sense, 158 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:16.000 which is he said he wanted to see our apartment 159 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:20.639 and to show it to Greg, which was like completely 160 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:24.120 bizarre because Betty did not want She had made us 161 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:27.519 promise that Greg would never even know that we were 162 00:10:27.559 --> 00:10:32.240 living together, so you know, here it was, you know, 163 00:10:32.360 --> 00:10:34.679 and it just seemed like it was, you know, and 164 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:38.960 plus Betty had not mentioned anything about Dwayne coming up 165 00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:42.360 to Boulder, So for all these reasons, you know, it 166 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:46.519 was it was a very very strange situation. So he 167 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:50.200 drove us back to our apartments with Greg. They looked 168 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:53.399 at our you know, basically one room apartment, and then 169 00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:57.320 after that fifteen minutes, Dwayne just kind of jumped up. 170 00:10:57.360 --> 00:10:59.480 He stood up abruptly and said, we gotta go, we 171 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:04.559 gotta go. And you know, when he left, he had 172 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:07.559 said something about trying to find a place for our 173 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:13.240 wedding dinner or something like that, which was another bizarre 174 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:16.080 thing because, as I said, we didn't even we were 175 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:19.519 even not sure whether they would be coming to the wedding. 176 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:24.480 So the whole thing was just completely bizarre. And then 177 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:28.200 the next thing we knew. Later that afternoon, we got 178 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:31.919 a phone call, I think from a neighbor saying, you know, 179 00:11:32.039 --> 00:11:34.840 you need to come home. There's been a terrible accident. 180 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:39.639 And the accident, of course, was that Betty was murdered. 181 00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:45.200 So we drove to the house and there we were. 182 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:51.440 That was that day. So I last people to speak 183 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:53.840 to Betty and one of the first to see your 184 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:54.279 a killer. 185 00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:59.879 You know, you include that the last time that you 186 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:04.440 did see Betty personally was at a restaurant. To tell 187 00:12:04.519 --> 00:12:08.679 us about that event and what was strange, if anything. 188 00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:13.240 Well, but The significance of that event is this was 189 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:17.519 after Mother's Day. This is between Mother's Day and the murder. 190 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:22.120 So Betty or Dwayne called I guess, I'm sure it was. 191 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:26.039 Dwayne called us up and said that they wanted to 192 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:29.360 take us to dinner. And you know, again we thought, 193 00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:36.000 oh gosh, you know, maybe they're accepting the marriage. And 194 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:39.279 we had dinner at this place called the flag Staff House, 195 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.000 which is still in Bolder. It's, you know, a place 196 00:12:42.039 --> 00:12:45.799 where parents visiting their kids, you know, take them through 197 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:50.879 a fancy dinner, you know, in the college town. And 198 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:54.799 Betty cried, and that is when she made us prompt 199 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:58.360 I mean, Dwayne ordered these little glasses of krem demond 200 00:12:58.559 --> 00:13:04.480 to toast us. But Betty cried and dropping us driving 201 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:08.000 us back to our apartment, which she refused, you know, 202 00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:09.840 they didn't want to get out of the car. And see, 203 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:14.679 she made us promise that Greg would never know, this 204 00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:18.360 is Doug's little thirteen year old brother, would never know 205 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:22.279 that we had lived, that we were living together before 206 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:25.559 we got married. So when Dwayne showed up, you know, 207 00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:29.679 a couple of weeks later, you know, after killing his wife, 208 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:33.600 and he wanted to show Greg where we were living. 209 00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:39.960 It was like completely you know, crazy. I mean, I 210 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:43.200 felt like we were violating a promise to Betty and 211 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:45.840 un now she was dead. But you know, if she 212 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:48.840 had been alive, that would never have happened. 213 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:54.840 In retrospect, now you found out about Betty's murder or 214 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:59.639 Betty's death, and now how do police proceed? What do 215 00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:02.360 you find find out? And what do the police find out? 216 00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:08.559 Well, bear in mind that I'm speaking, I'm answering your 217 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:12.919 question on the basis of what I learned after the 218 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:16.240 cold case, because at the time of the murder we 219 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:22.840 were told virtually nothing. Dwayne, you know, led us into 220 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:25.720 the house he sat his children. Doug had two older 221 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:29.159 sisters who were you know, living in Boulders, So we 222 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:32.080 drove to the house with them and he sat us 223 00:14:32.120 --> 00:14:34.120 all down at the dining room table and said that 224 00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:38.000 Betty had been killed by a burgler. She had surprised 225 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:42.519 a burglar, you know, And the police were all over 226 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:47.759 the house. There was fingerprint dust everywhere. We were not 227 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:51.039 allowed to go into the garage where her body was. 228 00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:54.120 Her body was still there when we arrived because there 229 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:59.279 was an ambulance in the driveway, and you know, police 230 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:03.919 never reviewed me. I think they spoke to Doug briefly, 231 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:09.080 and you know, we spent the night there, which is 232 00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:11.519 certainly something we never could have, you know, in Doug's 233 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:16.639 bedroom old you know, high school bedroom, which certainly would 234 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:19.759 never in a billion years have happened if Betty was alive. 235 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:24.720 So you know, that was very strange. And so what 236 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:25.759 we knew. 237 00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:26.320 Then was. 238 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:33.679 Like the kids lined up completely unquestioningly behind Dwayne, and 239 00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:37.159 there was it was sort of taboo to talk about 240 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:41.000 it and partner. The first reason it was was because 241 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:45.279 there was a grand jury and Doug was a witness, 242 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:47.720 and I think his sisters were, at least one of 243 00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:50.799 his sisters was as well, and so you know, the 244 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:53.960 thing was, you can't talk to anybody about anything because 245 00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:57.159 you know, Doug met with Dwayne's lawyer, but he couldn't 246 00:15:57.159 --> 00:16:00.240 tell me what they talked about. And you know, we 247 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:03.120 we were very much in the dark. And then when 248 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:07.080 Dwayne was indited for first degree murder in nineteen seventy three, 249 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:11.600 we were all all of the kids and me were 250 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:17.960 brought to the courthouse for his bail hearing because they 251 00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:20.600 wanted to put a big show of you know, family support, 252 00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:23.480 and but the minute they started talking about what had 253 00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:29.159 happened to Betty. You know, the children were made to 254 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:31.519 leave the bourtroom. I mean, it was just part of 255 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:34.960 the show that the lawyers put on, so you know, 256 00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:39.720 we just know talk about it. Then, you know, he 257 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:44.879 was This trial was scheduled for right before Thanksgiving of 258 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:49.120 that year, you know, within the six month speedy trial period, 259 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:56.120 And just before the trial, he called and said that 260 00:16:55.840 --> 00:17:00.799 the charges had been dropped, that there was some witness 261 00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:05.359 who had seen a suspicious pickup truck on the street 262 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:08.279 in front of the fry house that day or something 263 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:11.680 like that, and some carpenter who had seen something from 264 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:15.519 a roof. And that's all that we knew, and it 265 00:17:15.680 --> 00:17:19.519 was never discussed again, at least not in my presence, 266 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.880 and I don't think in Dougs either. So everybody just 267 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:28.000 kind of went on with their lives. And Dwayne married 268 00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:31.960 a very close family friend who I also knew because 269 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:34.119 she was part of the you know, sort of the 270 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:40.359 family circle, who divorced her husband abruptly. And then they 271 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:45.359 they moved away. At first they moved to California, then 272 00:17:45.400 --> 00:17:49.200 they moved to Florida, and you know, his sisters scattered 273 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:56.359 and the family basically just you know, it just it 274 00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:03.440 just not disintegrated. But everybody just left and there was 275 00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:10.400 never any discussion. So, you know, I had this feeling 276 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:15.279 because she had been Betty had been told about the 277 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:20.480 abortion and was strongly opposed to a marriage, that somehow 278 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:25.759 our impending wedding had been a trigger or a factor 279 00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:30.279 in what had happened. And you know, but I just, 280 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:33.440 you know, we all just went on with our lives 281 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:38.880 because talking about it was to boom and there was 282 00:18:38.920 --> 00:18:40.519 nobody to talk to about it anyway. 283 00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:45.880 You know, when did this all change for you? And 284 00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:49.799 tell us about the origins of quiet Time? 285 00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:56.640 Well, what happened is I basically our marriage lasted about 286 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.880 ten years when we got divorced, and I was just 287 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:05.319 no longer a part of their family. And I was 288 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:09.880 left with all of these feelings that somehow my coming 289 00:19:09.880 --> 00:19:13.039 into that family had upset some kind of fragile balance 290 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:16.359 or something, and I didn't talk to anybody about it. 291 00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:19.960 I became a lawyer, I went to law school, got 292 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:23.440 a job at a fancy farm, didn't tell anybody anything 293 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:27.240 about my past, you know, And then in the early 294 00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:31.960 nineteen nineties, I met my second husband coincidentally happens to 295 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:37.200 be a judge, and I told him he's a federal judge, 296 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:39.559 not a state judge, so he had nothing to do with, 297 00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:44.480 you know, any of the prosecution of Dwayne or anything 298 00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:48.480 like that. And you know, his question, quite naturally, was, well, 299 00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:53.319 didn't you ever find out why the charges were dropped? 300 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:57.880 You know, don't you want to know? Then I thought, well, yeah, 301 00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:02.039 I guess so, so I he did. He had he 302 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:04.160 had gone to law school with the guy who had 303 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:07.920 been the DA back in nineteen seventy three, and the DA, 304 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:11.400 you know, we arranged to meet with him, and we 305 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:14.079 met for I don't know, five or ten minutes, very 306 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:18.119 brief meeting. The DA said he couldn't remember much about 307 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:23.400 the case. He blamed dropping the case on, you know, 308 00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:27.720 the lead detective, who he said had come from the 309 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:32.359 state patrol and we don't investigate cases like that anymore. 310 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:35.440 In other words, that the guy was some old timer 311 00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:38.400 who didn't know what he was doing. And he gave 312 00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:40.640 me just a little, you know, a few, maybe a 313 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:45.720 dozen sheets of microfiche fragments of police reports that were 314 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:50.599 almost illegible. And then I went to the courthouse and 315 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:53.400 I asked if I could you know, get a copy 316 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:59.599 of the nineteen seventy three case file and by for me, 317 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:03.160 and I got, you know, one of the the defense 318 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:07.319 lawyers had attached a transcript the grand jury transcript of 319 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:12.559 the lead investigators testimony in the nineteen seventy three grand jury. 320 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:17.759 And that gave me, for the first time a sense of, 321 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:22.559 you know, the physical evidence and the forensics, you know, 322 00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:26.400 at the currency and you know, so I thought it 323 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:28.559 was fat. I mean, all of a sudden I had 324 00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:32.920 some sense of what had happened physically on the day 325 00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:36.079 of the murder, you know, and and what evidence the 326 00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:39.680 police had had to work with. And then I, you know, 327 00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:42.680 I did some more research. I got whatever news articles 328 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:48.880 I could find, and then I started to write it down, 329 00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:53.119 you know, just first of all, just my memories of 330 00:21:53.119 --> 00:21:56.039 that day. And then I start I knew nothing about 331 00:21:56.079 --> 00:21:59.839 writing a novel or you know, I'd never written a 332 00:21:59.839 --> 00:22:04.119 book or anything like that. And I just then I 333 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:08.440 started imagining to try to come to some closure myself. 334 00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:12.279 Now that I have at least the facts of what 335 00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:18.559 the police had seen that day. I then tried to 336 00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:22.680 imagine what other people in the family might have felt 337 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:26.720 or seen or experienced, and I wrote them out in 338 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.880 their imaginary first person voices. And this was all for 339 00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:35.519 purpose of me getting some kind of closure on what 340 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:39.359 had happened. And then I just I wrote draft after draft, 341 00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:43.799 and I started to you know, I would show it 342 00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:45.720 to people when they'd say, oh, no, this would make 343 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:49.839 a great mystery, and you know, I started to teach 344 00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:53.119 myself the craft of writing a mystery. And with each 345 00:22:53.240 --> 00:22:57.799 draft it got more and more fictionalized, because it basically 346 00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:00.559 the first draft had served my purpose of, you know, 347 00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:03.599 sort of just getting it all out. And now the 348 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:09.839 characters became imaginary. You know, I fictionalized them. I drew 349 00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:13.000 up a plot, you know, and I mean the problem 350 00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:15.920 with Betty's murder was that it had had no ending, 351 00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:18.839 so you know, I just I just ran with it, 352 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:23.880 and you know, and I wrote an imaginary, fictionalized version 353 00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:27.799 of it. And then after about twenty drafts, I got 354 00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:31.480 an agent and she submitted it to Bantam. And I 355 00:23:31.519 --> 00:23:34.240 was very very frank with Bantam about the origins of 356 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:38.960 the story, and Banson made me make other changes so 357 00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:42.759 that the characters would be unrecognizable. They made me change 358 00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:49.240 Denver and Boulder to Windom and Stanley or Windholm and Stanley. 359 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:51.240 You know, it was it was to make it all 360 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:55.279 so that nobody could ever imagine and it had anything 361 00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:58.440 to do with the real crime. And I also adopted 362 00:23:58.519 --> 00:24:02.519 my second husband last name is my pen name, because 363 00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:05.519 you know, I didn't I didn't want anything to come 364 00:24:05.559 --> 00:24:08.839 of it. To me, it was now just a completely 365 00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:14.680 fictional mystery. And so it got published and it actually 366 00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:17.559 came out like a week or two before nine to eleven, 367 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:20.920 and so, you know, it just it just that it died. 368 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.960 The book died at a very short life and died 369 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:27.880 a really fast death. It bombed, you know, which was 370 00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:33.519 fun with me, you know. And then about four years later, 371 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:39.839 I had been interviewed by a public TV station on books, 372 00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:44.880 and you know, it was just a short little interview, 373 00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:48.640 and you know, it was about my fictional book Quiet Time, 374 00:24:49.400 --> 00:24:52.799 and the station says it turned out lost its funding 375 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:56.279 so or the program lost its plumbing, so the station 376 00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:59.599 would play I came for a long and later we 377 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:03.640 run said this interview with me, like in the middle 378 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:10.200 of the night. In two thousand and five, Dwayne, my 379 00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:14.519 former father in law's sister, who was at that time 380 00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:18.240 like seventy eight years old or something, was watching late 381 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:21.640 night TV, and she saw me be interviewed, and she 382 00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:25.799 recognized me, and even though the story was a fictional story, 383 00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:29.319 she recognized elements of the life. She went out and 384 00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:34.039 buy a time and then she read it, and then 385 00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:37.839 I guess, in some sort of crisis of conscience, she 386 00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:43.440 came forward with information about a confession that Dwayne had 387 00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:47.240 made to their mother, and that their mother had told 388 00:25:47.279 --> 00:25:51.480 her before she died, and so a cold case was opened, 389 00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:55.400 and you know, kind of a horrifying thing for me 390 00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:58.680 about the confession, which again I didn't know anything about. 391 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:06.039 I'd never imagined, was that Dwayne said that he lost 392 00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:11.039 his temper began beating Daddy and the trigger for that 393 00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:17.839 was the abortion. And already so in a horrific way, 394 00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:22.160 you know, my worst fears were actually realized. It had 395 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:25.960 been a trigger, and so I but I didn't know 396 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:29.960 any of this until, you know, sometime in two thousand 397 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:32.680 and five, I got an email from a cold case 398 00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:37.839 cop and he said, you know, were you Betty Fry's 399 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:40.960 daughter in law and did you have an abortion in 400 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:45.079 nineteen seventy three, and you know, and do you mind 401 00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:48.880