Speaker 1: The Thinking Atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,
an idea.
Speaker 2: The population of atheists this country is going through the.
Speaker 1: Rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I
tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth, not
because I put my hand on a book and made
a wish and working together for a more rational world.
Speaker 2: Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness.
Speaker 3: Truth, Fusian wisdom will come to you that way.
Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the
Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.
Speaker 2: Just a few days ago, the actor director Mel Gibson
appeared on the Joe Rogan Podcast and it went pretty
much as you and I might expect. And I'm going
to play some clips and do some commentary on that interview.
I mean, two hours and twenty minutes of what. He
was promoting his new film starring Mark Wahlberg, a movie
called Flight Risk. Mel Gibson is an enigma because you
know he has been in the past such a beloved figure.
You know, there was a time like mel Gibson, he
was just the man. If there was a mel Gibson movie,
you wanted to go see it. He seemed like really
good people. And then the headlines came out about all
of the homophobic things that he was saying and what
he used the N word, and he was verbally and
even physically abusive, and it was just one example after
another example of awful behaviors. And you know, it really
came to a head twenty almost twenty years ago, so
the whole world was talking about it. Hollywood had kind
of cast him off, and yet here he is, and
he's still around, and he still has a career, and
he's still making millions of dollars for the system and
for himself. And you know, there's a legitimate question about
how is this happening? Is there a double standard? Would
people abide or allow or excuse this kind of thing
from another actor who may not have had, you know,
the road Warrior, leather clad bad boy lethal weapon image.
You know what if Tom Hanks had been on record
doing and saying the things that Mel Gibson has done
and said, and especially in light of this new interview
that he just did for Joe Rogan, I want to
spend a show talking about Mel Gibson. I'm going to
take a few detours here and there, and we're going
to elaborate and investigate. And then later on in the broadcast,
because Mel tries to talk about fossils, I'm going to
bring in a palaeontologist. You probably already know who it's
going to be, but we're going to do that later
in the broadcast. Okay, First, a quick primer on the
life of the man. Mel Gibson born in New York
on the third of January nineteen fifty six. He moved
with his parents to Sydney, Australia when he was twelve,
studied acting at the National Institute of Dramatic Art, and
his first film changed his life. Of course, we're talking
about the nineteen seventy nine George Miller classic Mad Max,
for which mel Gibson was paid the staggering sum of
nine thousand dollars. That's about forty grand in today's money.
But still compare that to the twenty five million dollars
he was paid for starring in The Patriots twenty one
years later. And you and I know the landmark Gibson films,
The Road Warrior, Lethal Weapon, Maverick, the Austin winning Brave Heart.
We were soldiers. Beyond directing Brave Heart. He's also directed Apocalypto,
Hecksaw Ridge, The Man Without a Face, and most notoriously
two thousand and four is The Passion of the Christ,
which is a torture porn depiction of Jesus getting the
shit kicked out of him for almost two hours. It
was a film shown not just in theaters, but it
was sort of paraded around and displayed in churches. It
became the highest grossing R rated film in history at
that time, six hundred million dollars globally, more than half
of that revenue domestically. And Oh Joy. Mel Gibson is
filming a sequel for a twenty twenty six release, The
Resurrection of the Christ, And of course Jesus Christ in
those movies is played by actor Jim Cavesl, who is
several crackers short of a sharkuterie if you will. He
is a QAnon conspiracy theorist. He also starred in the
child sex trafficking movie which is definitely not a documentary
about Tim Ballard, the film The Sound of Freedom, and
he's just way out there. So he was Jesus in
two thousand and six, and he will be Jesus in
twenty twenty six. Back to mel Gibson, it is estimated
that two day, the sixty seven year old actor, producer, director,
studio owner and real estate investor has a personal net
worth of about four hundred and twenty five million dollars.
And the big blow up, the one everybody was talking about,
happened almost twenty years ago two thousand and six. But
mel Gibson's controversial behavior was nothing new. Nineteen eighty three,
he was in Toronto for a movie shoot. He was
driving intoxicated, pulled over and Toronto banned him from driving
a car for three months. The nineteen nineties were right
with accusations of homophobia. Mel Gibson did an interview in
nineteen ninety one with the Spanish newspaper where he was
asked about homosexuality, and he told the paper this quote,
they take it up the ass. This is only for
taking a shit. He protested that anyone would ever perceive
him as gay. Quote Do I look like a homosexual?
Do I talk like them? Do I move like them?
The nineteen ninety five depiction of Edward the Second in
Braveheart became another lightning rod as Glad formerly the Gay
and Lesbian Alliance against defamation criticized it for being a
homophobic caricature. LGBT people protested the film for that reason.
Mel's response was suspiciously devoid of empathy. He said, I'll
apologize when hell Freeze is over. They can fuck off.
A few months after that, when he'd finally calmed down,
Mel Gibson met with GLAD representatives and apparently smoothed over
some troubled waters. Two thousand and six made global headlines Malibu, California.
It was reported that Mel Gibson was arrested on suspicion
of drunk driving. The arresting officer, La County Sheriff Deputy
James Mee and Officer me documented that Mel was just
ranting like a madman. Gibson said to the officer, quote
fucking Jews. The Jews are responsible for all the wars
in the world. Are you a Jew? Officer me also
wrote that mel Gibson repeatedly threatened him, saying that he
owns Malibu and would spend all of his money to
quote get even. Days later, mel Gibson apologized, saying that
he had acted like someone completely out of control, and
then he spoke about his disease of alcoholism. He later
made a longer, more elaborate apology to the Jewish community
for his antisemitic remarks. He acknowledged quote vitriolic and harmful words.
He said there should be no tolerance for those who
expressed those kinds of hateful remarks. Now it's interesting here
because Mel Gibson's father, Hutton Gibson, was a Holocaust denier.
Hutton told The New York Times magazine that the Holocaust
was fabricated. It was a plot to hide a secret
deal between Hitler and financiers to move Jews from Germany
into the Middle East. He also denied that Osama bin
Laden was behind nine to eleven. The planes that struck
the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were not occupied,
but rather they were all operated by remote control. And
there's a lot of suspicion that Mel's fond opinions heavily
influenced his son's. We can only speculate Mel Gibson's racism
and abusive behaviors would continue to surface. And I'm going
to play some disturbing audio here. July of twenty ten,
Mel was dating the Russian singer and songwriter Oaksana Grigorieva,
they'd been together for three years. They had a daughter
in two thousand and nine. Things were so intense and
awful at home that Oaksanna secretly recorded one of her
conversations with mel. The first clip Gibson expressing his disapproval
about the way his girlfriend dressed.
Speaker 4: I don't work around in outside clothes.
Speaker 5: I stayed awful more go out of Republican. It's a
fucking embarrassment to me. You look like a fucking bitch
on heat. And if you get raped by a pack
of nats, lily your phone all right, because you provoked it.
You are provocatively dressed all the time with your fake foo.
Do you feel you have to show off? I don't
like it. I don't want that woman. I don't want shoe.
I don't believe you anymore. I don't trust you. I
don't rob you.
Speaker 2: The next clip, here, Gibson uses the slur wet back
when talking about Oaksana's live in housekeeper.
Speaker 5: I will fire if she is at your house, I
will make it known and fire her.
Speaker 6: Fine a reporter to the fucking people that takes fucking
money from the webback.
Speaker 2: Okay, and this last segment, this is from the same call,
mel Gibson makes a death threat.
Speaker 4: I'm shutting you.
Speaker 5: I'll put you on rose. Do you understand that I'm
capable of it? Do you understand that?
Speaker 2: Shortly after that audio was released to the public, mel
Gibson did an interview with Deadline. He said the tapes
were heavily edited, he had been having a bad day
and some people needed context to understand what was going on. Hey,
we've all had times in a relationship when we've said
things that were awful and that we didn't really mean.
I'm normally a good person. It was that kind of thing.
The same year, he pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor
battery charge against Oaksaka Grigoryeva, secured a restraining order. In
twenty ten, mel Gibson put on a three year probation,
given community service, He paid a four hundred dollars fine,
and he was ordered to attend a year of anger
management training. Now around that same time, mel Gibson was
doing a live TV interview with wg in's Dean Richards
about his then new movie called Edge of Darkness, and
this was supposed to be like his recovery movie or
his return to Hollywood type movie. He'd spent almost half
a decade kind of shunned by the business after this
stuff had come to light, but he was slowly climbing
his way back. This new Martin Campbell film was releasing.
Dean Richards asked mel Gibson about his reputation is troubled past?
You know, what were his thoughts? Had he done any reflection?
And what I find most interesting is the lack of
empathy and self analysis, self reflection in mel Gibson's response.
And then, of course there's the word at the end
what Mel called Dean before the camera feed cut. Here's
the clip.
Speaker 7: Do you feel like you're a different person, maybe a
better person than you were five years ago?
Speaker 8: Four years ago?
Speaker 7: I mean everything that we've read about you, you've gone
through a lot of ups and downs in the past
few years.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, yeah, five, four or five years. Yeah, it's been.
Speaker 4: Hey, it's a real roller coaster ride. You know, I
think I'm the same person I always was, except for
people as they go. Time teaches and you know, you
learn as you go.
Speaker 7: So, hey, you think, do you think that the public
will perceive you any differently after all that's been in
the news about you?
Speaker 4: What are you referring to specifically.
Speaker 7: Referring to the you know, the drinking problems, referring to
what's been called the anti Semitic rant, referring that's all
those things.
Speaker 8: You know, you know what I'm talking about, is it? Okay?
Speaker 4: So that's almost four years ago, dude, I mean I've
moved on. I guess you haven't.
Speaker 7: Well, I'm just I'm just wondering if you think that
the public has has moved on and will perceive you
in the same light.
Speaker 8: Well, I certainly hope.
Speaker 4: So, you know, it is a while back, and you
know I've done all the necessary maya kulpas.
Speaker 8: So let's move on, dude, Come on.
Speaker 7: Edge of Darkness opens today. It's good to see you
back in the saddle and doing what you do best.
Thanks a lot for joining us. Now take care, bye, asshole.
Speaker 2: Okay, that was roughly fifteen years ago, and despite all
of the many red flags, somehow Mel Gibson has enjoyed
a comeback. He is climbing back up the wrung. Hollywood
has thrown out the welcome Matt welcome back to Hollywood.
There was an award ceremony in Los Angeles a while back.
Robert Downey Junior asked Mel Gibson to present Robert a
special award. He was going to be given some kind
of award for trophy for something, and to give the award.
Robert Downey Junior wanted Mel Gibson to do the honors
because mel had been a part of Robert Downey Junior's
own recovery from dark days. Here's what he said.
Speaker 3: Actually, I asked Mel to present this award to me
for a reason, because when I couldn't get sober, he
told me not to give up hope, and he urged
me to find my faith didn't have to be his
or anyone else's, as long as it was rooted in forgiveness.
And I couldn't get hired, so he cast me in
the lead of a movie that was actually developed for him,
and he kept a roof over my head, and he
kept food on the table, and most importantly, he said
that if I accepted responsibility for my wrongdoings, and if
I embraced that part of my soul, it was ugly
hugging the cactus, he calls it.
Speaker 2: He said that if I hugged the.
Speaker 3: Cactus long enough, I'd become a man of some humility.
And that my life would take on a new meaning.
And I did, and it worked. All he asked in
return was that someday I helped the next guy in
some small way. It's reasonable to assume that at the
time he didn't imagine the next guy would be him, or.
Speaker 2: That someday was tonight.
Speaker 3: So anyway, on the special occasion, and in light of
the recent holidays, including Columbus Day, I humbly ask that
you join me unless you are completely without sin, in
which case you picked.
Speaker 2: The wrong industry.
Speaker 3: And forgiving my friend his trespasses, offering him the same
clean slate you have me, and allowing him to continue
his great and ongoing contribution to our collective art without shame.
He's hugged the cactus long enough.
Speaker 2: Now My problem here is that nowhere, And send me
an example if you've got it, because I really want
to know. But I haven't found an interview, a place,
a segment, an instance, whatever where mel Gibson has really
focused and said I was a horrible person with destructive
idea and I'm so very sorry. That's that's I'm not
hearing that. I mean, he'll say something horrible and say, well,
I'm temperamental, and I've got alcoholism, and there are a
lot of problems, and I'm really sorry, and then I'll
meet with some people. But I mean, overall there have
been pockets of remorse, but mostly I think his attitude
has been what we heard in the wg In piece
and it's yesterday's news. Why can't people just get over it? Asshole? Right,
Well that's a problem. And I'm saying this is somebody
who has loved Mel gibson movies ever since The Road Warrior,
a masterpiece film. I have rooted for mel Gibson to
just bust out of this insanity, you know, to overcome
it and to recover and to make things right. I
have ached for the day that Mel Gibson would say
just a few sentences and then commit himself to living
out those deckslarations, coming forward and saying I was wrong,
I was hateful, I was a racist, I was a homophobe,
I was an abuser. I'm broken. It is understandable why
moral people would want nothing to do with who I
have been and maybe even who I am. I am
now from this moment going to commit to the rescue
of my mind and my heart so that my legacy
isn't going to be one that is anti humanity. I
pledge I promise to make myself accountable in my journey.
I'm going to try to earn trust for those who
will generously give it. They don't owe me trust, they
don't even owe me forgiveness. But I'm going to put
myself out there and try to earn it wherever I can.
And I'm going to use my tremendous wealth and influence
and power to advocate for the people that I have
harmed for so many dec I'm not trying to buy forgiveness.
I simply want to demonstrate my sincere desire to be
the better man. Oh my goodness, I think a lot
of people, many people would respond cautiously, but respond positively
to this. I mean, how many agents of hate and
harm have emerged and then committed themselves to the better way.
I always like to go back to the people who
were white supremacists, people who were part of the KKK,
and somehow they had an epiphany and they busted out
and then committed the rest of their lives to love
and acceptance and egalitarian, humanitarian values. Their legacy was not
going to be one of hate but of rescue. I mean,
it's possible, right, But with mel Gibson, it always seems
like everybody else is doing the stretching toward him instead
of him having an evolution. And then just a few
days ago, Mel Gibson was the featured guest on the
Joe Rogan Podcast talking about the new film that he
has directed called Flight Risk, and in just over two hours,
mel Gibson and Joe Rogan demonstrated again why we simply
can't have nice things. I'm going to talk about it
and play some audio in just a second, talking here
about mel Gibson, his problematic past, but more recently his
appearance on the Joe Rogan Show. Now, I want to
preface this first clip from the Rogan broadcast, episode number
two two five four, where as they were talking about
the California wildfires that have been unbelievable, just monumental, horrifically bad.
Mel Gibson's house burned down, but he and Joe Rogan
had opinions. Here we go, so.
Speaker 9: Things are more dangerous now?
Speaker 8: I think they are?
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think so for sure.
Speaker 8: Yep.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 9: We were just talking about the wildfire situation and how
crazy it is that they spent twenty four billion dollars
last year on the homeless. Yeah, and what are they
spent on preventing these wildfires?
Speaker 8: Zero zip zip.
Speaker 4: And in twenty nineteen, I think Newsom said, you know,
I'm going to take care of the forest and maintain
the forests and do all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 8: He didn't do.
Speaker 9: Anything, didn't do anything. And then on top of that,
they cut the water off.
Speaker 4: Yeah that's right. Yeah, it's all funny. And then I
think all our tax dollars probably went for Gavin's hair jail.
Speaker 2: Okay, so just about everything that was said there is
a lie, and Governor Gavin Newsom isn't screwing around with
these people. He's got an entire page of refutations to
like the Sean Hannity, Donald Trump, Fox News lie is
about forest mismanagement and the reservoirs are empty, and you know,
there's not enough water for southern California and some of
it's being deliberately burned as part of a conspiracy to
make cheap apartment land. I mean, there's a whole ton
of stuff going out there. And so he's got this
page titled California fire Facts. And if I can just
digress for just a second. I want to read something
about the California wildfires. I know this is a Melt
Gibson themed show, but if they're going to talk about California,
I thought I would share this, which posted on the
tenth of January. The poster's name is Lauren Sinnott. She's
a historian who lives in Point Arena, California. Her post
went viral. She said, I've learned a lot in the
last few days about the LA fires and why this
is happening. Local LA media and some of my MSNBC
news shows have been really informative. Laurence O'Donnell has a
home in LA and he gave an impassion presentation tonight
for the scientific specifics and especially good sources. Daniel Swain
the UCLA climatologist. You can find him at weatherwest dot
com and on social media. What is happening in LA
is to fire as a blizzard is to snow, as
a hurricane is to rain. This is all about the
wind and the California climate and climate change. Number one,
A lot of people who don't live here also don't
understand the Mediterranean climate. For six months of the year,
we do not have rain. This can create very dry conditions.
The other six months should contain significant amounts of rain.
Number two. The vegetation around La is brushy with smaller trees.
During our six months without rain, this vegetation becomes very dry,
even if and especially when there has been a lot
of rain in the preceding winter. A lot of rain
makes the vegetation grow. Then in the summer it all
dries out. That happened during the last couple of years,
so there's a lot of fuel for fire, and it
doesn't stay moist and shady as in a tall, dense
redwood forest or in a Midwestern or Eastern forest where
rain occurs during the summer. In southern California, it all
just dries out every summer, no matter how much rain
came in the preceding winter. Number three. For most of
the year, coastal California gets a lot of moisture laden
cool wind coming from the Pacific Ocean and blowing onto
the land. However, that changes during part of the year
in southern California, typically from October to January. This is
when the Santa Ana winds blow in the other direction.
The Santa Ana winds are what is creating the situation.
These are high dry winds coming from California's inland desert
areas blowing out toward the sea. Number four. What can
help prevent catastrophic fires is the fact that typically by
the time the Santa Ana winds start, the dry half
of the year is ending and rains come. That is
happening less consistently now. When the long dry season extends
into October and November and December, as has happened in
southern California this year, all of that voluminous dry vegetation
from the previous wet years is overlapping with the Santa
Ana winds. This is a recipe for disaster number five.
When winds blow at these high speeds with gusts up
to one hundred miles an hour, as happened in La
on Tuesday, fire is inevitable and can be stopped. Planes
and helicopters cannot fly to drop water or retardant from
the air, Sparks and embers will be blasted across even
an extensive, densely built urban area. Fires on that wind
are like a blowtorch and can't be stopped. Number six.
Only when the wind dies down can effective firefighting happen,
and even then the wind can return. This is what
firefighters and residents are battling in LA right now. This
is how entire neighborhoods can be burned in one night,
in multiple locations, creating conditions firefighters can't stop, can only
suppress until the conditions change, like waiting out a hurricane,
a hurricane of fire. And there's a PostScript, and I'm
going to take the time to read it for you.
The water for LA comes from local ground water and
three big areas, the southern Coastal Mountains via the California Aqueduct,
the Sierra Nevadas via the La Aqueduct, and the Rocky
Mountains via the Colorado River Aqueduct. The Pacific Palisades is
fed by a thirty six inch line that flows by
gravity from the Stone Canyon Reservoir, itself supplied by the
LA Aqueduct. The larger lower Stone Canyon Reservoir has a
capacity of three point three eight billion gallons, and together
the reservoirs operated by the Los Angeles Department of Water
and Power have a capacity of four point one billion gallons.
Because of the abundant rainfall during the two previous winters.
The reservoirs were full except for one, the one hundred
and seventeen million gallons Santa Ynez Reservoir, which had been
closed months earlier for repair. Its capacity of the total
is two point eighty five percent. Officials say it may
have helped to some extent with a pressure issue had
it been online, but not enough to make a difference.
The horrible circumstance of fire hydrants not producing sufficient water
is sometimes happening, but not because there is not enough
water stored. The two previous winters brought a good amount
of rain. Major reservoirs are full, but the water must
be accessed. The pipes that bring water into neighborhoods scale
down from max size into systems that often involve smaller
tanks and basins that must be pumped full at times.
Electricity has been turned off in many areas, and electricity
powers the system that keeps the water pressurized. It's an
issue of lack of pressure, not lack of water, and
aircraft that can scoop up water even from the ocean
can't fly in heavy winds. Basically, municipal water systems are
designed to fight more limited fires in a house or
a block. These are raging wildfires brought into the city
where they normally wouldn't occur by the wind. I ran
this by some geologists and of course some resident friends
of mine in California, and they said, yeah, these things
check out. I found it quite impressive. Joe Rogan and
Mel Gibson apparently oblivious, as they both obviously are, about
the Jesus Story, the Bible, and Christianity, the entire religion.
Joe Rogan asking Mel Gibson about the upcoming sequel to
the Passion of the Christ, So.
Speaker 9: Are you doing this with historians as well? You're trying
to make it young.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, historical stuff.
Speaker 4: Well, I regard the Gospels as history.
Speaker 8: It's a verifiable history.
Speaker 4: Some people say, oh, it's a fairy tale, he never exists,
but he did. And there are other accounts, verifying historical
accounts outside the biblical ones that also bear this up
that yes, he did exist.
Speaker 8: And the other aspect of that is that the all.
Speaker 4: The evangelists, the apostles who went out there, every single
one of those guys died rather than deny their belief.
And nobody dies for a lie.
Speaker 8: Nobody.
Speaker 4: So that's part of what I'm doing. It's like showing
nobody dies for a lie.
Speaker 2: Okay, all of those things are untrue. I mean, was
there a guy named Jesus? Very possibly, But the first
reference outside the Bible to Jesus was what Josephus in
the Antiquities we're talking about roughly seventy years after the
alleged cracive fixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the
whole Well, they wouldn't have died for a lie. Thing
references what could be fictional characters in the story. So
you know, oh yeah, Matthew, Mark Luke and John Yeah,
they died in the story, Which means, what if you're
right about a character that dies, that makes the character
am the story real? It's such lazy non reasoning. And
of course Joe Rogan is just sitting over there looking
like a piece of awestruck furniture, going.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, Well, the resurrection is the one that is
the most difficult for people to swallow. Yes, this is
the one that requires the most.
Speaker 4: Faith, the most faith in the most belief. Yeah resurrection. Yeah,
who gets back up three days later after he gets
murdered in public?
Speaker 8: Who gets back up under his own power? Buddha didn't
do that shit.
Speaker 9: Right, you know, so you believe that was a real event, Yeah,
I do. Yeah, what brought you to that belief? Is
this something you've always had or is it something you
studied it and you've come to this conclusion because the
historical accounts?
Speaker 4: And yes, I think as a child, you know, one
accepts things on faith because you know, you're raised by
people who are nice to you and they believe it.
And my dad was a pretty smart guy. And I
still have that faith. But as I got older, I
came to it through intellect and through reading and putting
things together in accounts.
Speaker 8: And then occurrence is like in my own life, you know.
Speaker 4: I mean, just recently they've verified the Shroud of Turin.
Speaker 8: Have you seen that.
Speaker 9: I've been reading about it, and I know that there's
some contention, there's some some discussion and debate about it.
But they used to think that it was only a
couple hundred years old. Yeah, and now they've changed that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, they've said no, it's back then.
Speaker 9: They also don't understand how it was made, which to
me is very fascinating because it's not paint, it's not
they don't know what caused the image itself, and how
that technology would have even been available. It wasn't a
couple thousand.
Speaker 4: Years ago an intense light i mean atomic to leave
almost like a photographic imprint on a piece of cloth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'm I'm sorry.
Speaker 6: The Shroud of Turin. You gotta be shitting me, right,
The Shroud of Turin has it's like flat Earth. It
has been debunked for so long that very few people
even talk about it anymore.
Speaker 2: Where was it dated like the early or wait, the
late fourteenth century. Even bishops and priests in the Catholic
Church we're talking about how it's a bunch of crap.
It was a sleight of hands. You know, this wasn't
the actual shroud that Jesus was entombed in. I mean,
if the Roman Catholic Church says it's fake and that's
the official position, and mel Gibson identifies as a Catholic,
why are we talking about the Shroud of Turin? And again,
Joe Rogan is just sitting over there kind of nodding
and smiling like a bobblehead.
Speaker 9: It's wild. Pull that up, pull the shroud to turn up.
Oh yeah, it's wild to look at because it's it's
so interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you can see it that it depicts a
first century Hebrew male because the hairstyle was from the
first century and a Hebrew hairstyle. That he was about
six feet tall, that he was completely scourged all over
his body, he was crucified.
Speaker 9: The one on the left is the one on the
right is just like an artistic rendition.
Speaker 2: That's the face.
Speaker 9: Yeah, click on that one, the face, the face. Yeah,
that's good enough. Get that large. That's fucking crazy. Yeah, yeah,
what is the latest on that, Jammy? Can you see?
Like I was trying to get that two different articles
from within the last six.
Speaker 4: Months, opposite of course, didn't know which one sounded the
most accurate.
Speaker 9: Well, it's such a crazy thing to even try to verify.
What are you, like, what are you saying. You're saying
that this is really the shroud that Jesus was covered in.
So you're saying Jesus historically absolutely did exist, and we
think that this is the shroud that covered them. Just
that alone, people incredulity. People's immediately they're their hackles raise
like wait a minute, wait, wait a minute, and they're
just instead of like looking at it, objectively. They don't
almost always want to look at it from a point
of view of disproving it immediately, dismissing it immediately.
Speaker 4: But that's you know, that's science, isn't it. You have
to say, you know, you play the devil's advocate.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, somebody explained to these two people how science
actually works. Hey, so and so, bring up an image
and put it on the screen. Let's take a look
at it. Wow, that's really impressive. So much mystery. Well,
you know, those scientists are off like skeptical. That's what
scientists are supposed to be. And then you go and
you test and you retest and you're verifying your peer review.
And you know what I'm saying, the way these people
treat quote unquote facts, I don't care if he's a
nice guy or whatever. In real life, Joe Rogan is
one of the dumbest dudes on the planet. And the
fact that he is so widely popular, to me, it
blows my mind. The fact that people get their data
or whatever you want to call it, from the Joe
Rogan Show. They learn about the world. They're learning about
the world from Joe Rogan and Mel Gibson. Somebody somebody,
I need a tranquilizer.
Speaker 9: Are you aware of Graham Hancock. Oh?
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 9: Graham Hancock is a sort of a historian that has
a very uh he's got a series on Netflix. He's
a fascinating guy and his career started because he was
investigating this, these accounts in Ethiopia of the Ark of
the Covenant and that they believe the Ark of the
Covenant is in this one church that's protected by all
these monks that wind up getting cataracts and radiation disease
and sickness, and they think that it's because they're protecting
this Arc of the Covenant, this actual thing, that it's
an actual physical thing that's there.
Speaker 8: And if you touch it you get example to you.
Speaker 9: Yeah, and that even being in its presence fucks these
people up.
Speaker 8: Maybe maybe.
Speaker 6: Joe Rogan with a straight face, is invoking pseudo scientists
and host of Angent Apocalypse.
Speaker 2: On Netflix, Gram Hancock. Now, let me give you just
a little bit of background on Graham Hancock, because he's
a piece of work. He believes this. The world suffered
a massive ecological disaster after comets struck the Earth about
thirteen thousand years ago, Okay, and during those supposed impacts.
There was floods and temperature drops and climate craziness and
all kinds of geological term that cause civilizations to just disappear,
civilizations that you and I don't know about and that
our historians refuse to acknowledge. One of those civilizations is
and I shit you not, the Lost City of Atlantis.
And according to Hancock, it is the Lost City of
Atlantis or the survivors from that helped to introduce everything
from agriculture, architecture, astronomy, art, math, and basic civilization to
hunter gatherers who could then evolve into the human beings
that you and I see today. It's all because of
the Lost City of Atlantis. So now Joe Rogan is
using this man as his source on the Arc of
the Covenant. This stems back to a book that was
published in nineteen ninety two called The Sign and the Seal,
The Quest for the Lost Arc of the Covenant, and
historians and geologists and archaeologists have examined his claims, and
I would suspect they are still laughing their asses off.
I mean, this is just wacky, wacky stuff. And Joe
Rogan is like, well, you know, they think it might
be buried in a church somewhere, and the evidence is
that people around seem to be getting strangely sick. You
and I are thinking, oh, people get sick. Maybe there's
a bad ground water pollution in the air of virus.
Joe Rogan says, maybe it's the arc of the Covenant.
Dare I play even more examples from the Joe Rogan
Mel Gibson interview. Oh yes, I will we continue next.
I think about all of the most popular podcasters, communicators, entertainers,
people on this world who have become household names that
we have showered with influence and wealth. When I look
at Joe Rogan and I think why we're talking about
Rogan again, Because he had Mel Gibson on his broadcast
just a few days ago. Mel was addressing his alcoholism
and some of the mistakes of his past. He was
speaking in the context of forgiveness from God.
Speaker 4: You have to be able to accuse yourself and understand
that there is it's a great deal of mercy involved
in the fact that I believe that God sent his
son down to tell us, Okay, I'm going to ransom
you people from your fallen nature, and I'll give you
a roadmap on how to do it. It's an interesting
fact to note that the first canonized saint, you know
who it was the first ever confirmed canonization.
Speaker 8: As a saint.
Speaker 4: He was Dismiss. You know who Dismiss was. No, he
was hanging. He was the thief on the cross next
to Jesus, and he says to him, you're gonna be
okay this day, you'll be with me. I'm baptized, criminal
all that stuff.
Speaker 2: So wow, okay, I guess he was speaking colloquially or something.
The first canonized saint was sainted by Pope John the
fifteenth That was in nine to ninety three CE, Saint
Ulrich of Augsburg. It wasn't a guy named Dismiss who
was hanged, Like, how do you know his name? And
why is his name Dismiss?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 2: Lookie. Joe Rogan and Mel Gibson want to talk about evolution.
Speaker 9: What are your thoughts on evolution?
Speaker 4: M hm, wow, eh, the Darwin thing.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't really go for it.
Speaker 4: No, Yeah, I say age dinosaurs. You know what did
they turn into? I mean things became extinct at some point.
I don't think I was some kind of like, you know,
legless thing that crawled out of the ocean.
Speaker 8: I don't think I came from that. I think I
was created.
Speaker 9: Do you think other things were legless things that came
out of the ocean. Do you think, like multi celled
organisms came out of single celled organisms and there was
some sort of a natural selection and random mutation and
it led to everything else but us.
Speaker 4: Sure, look a gain of function, right, you can like
you can make stuff happen, and I'm sure stuff did happen.
Speaker 8: But I think it's all part of creation. I think
it's all ordered.
Speaker 4: I think anyone left anything left to itself without some
kind of intelligence behind it will devolve into chaos, and
so that there has to be some big intelligence that
orchestrates everything. Not that we don't have chaos in the world,
but I think that's our own making. Yeah, I'm just
not totally convinced. I feel it, and I can't really.
Speaker 8: I'm sorry. I can't intellectually tell.
Speaker 4: You why I don't believe an evolution, but I don't.
It's just a feeling. I don't think I was some
ape or. I don't think my ancestors were. I think
they had to be pretty smart to survive.
Speaker 9: So what do you think all these pre human hominids
are that they keep discovering.
Speaker 8: Like, tell me what a prehuman hominy.
Speaker 9: Like australiapithet is or some of the other human like
creatures that never made it, like Denisovan's neantals.
Speaker 8: Yeah yeah, stuff like that.
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, they've got something called zynganthropists, you remember him,
no zinganthropist man, and he was like.
Speaker 8: He look kind of like this, but he was like.
Speaker 4: They looked at it and they did some core samples
on it, and it was put out there by people
advocating evolution, and they discovered that it was a human
skull attached to the jaw of an ape.
Speaker 9: Oh I do remember?
Speaker 8: So it was a hop Yeah.
Speaker 9: There's been some hoaxes, yeah, yeah, but there's also been
real stuff.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, ah, somebody fakes something once. So no, no, no,
the conversation continues and it just doesn't get any better.
But I got to play this. Here we go.
Speaker 9: You know, Australia pithecus. There's a bunch of different you know,
the Lucy skeleton, there's a bunch of different pre human hominids.
Speaker 8: Yeah, maybe there were monkeys, I don't know.
Speaker 9: Yeah, well there was they're similar to us, just not
where we are. They're on the road to becoming what
it means to be a human being.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 9: What do you think those are?
Speaker 4: I don't know. They could be animals, or they could
be like look at today, I mean, you can get
some skido can bite you, and your kid can be
born with a malformed skull or something.
Speaker 8: It's like, you know, they have those, you know.
Speaker 9: Yeah, but this is like a like a genetic thing
like they've done, They've mapped the genome of these creatures.
Speaker 8: They're different.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I don't know how to explain those, Joe,
I don't know.
Speaker 9: But but you do think that human beings were created
by God?
Speaker 8: I do.
Speaker 9: When do you think that happened?
Speaker 8: When?
Speaker 4: Probably and not that long ago?
Speaker 8: Really?
Speaker 9: No, not really, Like what do you mean by not
that long ago?
Speaker 4: Probably only about eight thousand years ago?
Speaker 9: Really? Yeah, So what do you think things like go
Beckley tape are when they find these constructions that are
dated carbon dated to eleven thousand plus years old?
Speaker 4: I question carbon dating?
Speaker 9: Really, Yeah, that's a lot simpler.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, they they're Yeah, there's a lot of money
in in you know, claims and.
Speaker 2: Okay, I took kind of a bunny traggler. Earlier in
the show, Ryan, we spend ten twelve fifteen minutes talking
about climate change, and because this is a podcast with
no rules, where we make the rules. So I'm going
to take another detour and spend I don't know, ten
fifteen minutes doing what mel Gibson did not do. I'm
going to talk to everybody's favorite palaeontologist, host of the
Gutzig Gibbon Channel, Eric, Thanks for being here. What do
you think about this, this fake fossil disproving evolution?
Speaker 10: Well, this is you know, this is a this is
this is a classic, right, like this is a card
that gets pulled. It's like I was covering Doug Wilson
a couple of weeks, a couple of months ago now
and the sort of hoax of this particular specimen, which
we'll talk about in a minute, because there's some issues
with even how Melkison brings it to the table. Shocking,
I know, but this is like a this is your
starter deck, This is your creationist starter deck argument saying
that all of human evolution is invaludated because of a hoax,
of a single hoax when people bring it up. I
tend to just say, okay, like, if you're going to
say that a hoax within a field invalidates that field,
we don't have any fields left. And in fact, I'm
going to gesture madly to Biblical antiquity, which is notorious
for having people faking ancient artifacts, you know, from the
body parts of the Apostles or Marry to the shroud
of Turin, to the Ark of the Covenant that the
Ethiopians say that they have. I don't think that mel
Gibson would agree that the Ethiopians have the Ark of
the Covenant, and yet that wouldn't invalidate his faith, would it.
It is selectively weaponized to discount things that he finds uncomfortable.
Now the hoax in question he gets wrong. Shocking, What
how is that possible? Mel Gibson not being an expert
on the stuff that he talks that he chooses to
talk about. On Joe Rogan, I wish I had the confidence.
Speaker 2: I take it. You're not a Rogan fan.
Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm not a Rogan fan.
Speaker 2: Can say it, you can say it.
Speaker 4: Come on, yes, I'm not.
Speaker 10: A Rogan fan. And you know it sucks because originally
me and Joe we united on our love for chimpanzees.
Joe loves chimps. He loves talking about how crazy chimps
are and how cool they are and how like us
they are. And I can meet in the middle with
him on that for sure, not even meet in the middle.
I'm fully on his side love chimps. But the problem
with Joe Rogan is that he he takes every conspiracy
theory and really every position of every guest that he
has on the show, hook line and sinker, and he
does exactly zero research for anything prior to having people on,
and he picks the things that he chooses to believe
exclusively based on vibes. In my opinion, he uses the
rule of cool to decide what to believe about the
world like and reality, which I find disconcerting. And this
kind of stuff has consequences. I'm sure you know that
Graham Hannacock was on Joe Rogan's show a while background Hancock,
he's a big Atlantis guy, you know, believes that these
ancient civilists had this technology that's just incomprehensible to today,
and it's been lost to us that civilization extends far
deeper into the past than what legitimate archaeology seems to suggest.
And he had a debate with a friend of mine,
Flint Nibble on Joe Rogan a couple of months ago
quh like a year ago now, and Flint absolutely curbs
domed Graham, right because Flint is an actual archaeologist and
he does this work every day, and he was nice
about it, right, Like Flint was not rude or dismissive
or whatever, Like he entertained everything that that Handcock had
to say, but you know, he'd put him down. And
Joe Rogan's audience even recognized that this went completely in
Flint's favor. So in response to this, Joe Rogan the
you know, less amicable of Joe Rogan's fans, and then
all of Graham Hancock's fans, which I don't know if
you know this, but the ancient Aliens, the Atlantis, the
race realist guys, those folks that fandom if you will,
they're absolutely relentless, like they will ruin your life if
they can, using social media doc saying like everything. So
they he did like a targeted harassment campaign against Flint
that carries on to this day and was exacerbated by
the fact that Joe, because he didn't like the idea
of that Atlantis not being real, decided to have Graham
Hancock back on the show, not invite Flint dibble and
basically reignite and call Flint a liar on the show
in so many words, with he's not even there to
defend himself. Right, first of all, he's not lying, but
second of all, he's not even there to defend himself.
It is really a poor showing in my opinion, especially
for somebody like Joe Rogan, who stands as if he's
like this, this sort of beacon of like I'm an everyman.
You know, everybody gets to have a voice.
Speaker 11: And it rubs me the wrong way that the guy
that you like lost the debate and so you have
a rematch, but there's only one of the two parties there.
I don't like that hashtag Joe Rogan just wants to
have conversations doesn't work for me. It's interesting me either, Right,
A conversation usually has more than one person, and usually
you're having a conversation. He likes to say that he
has these conversations with people who disagree with him, and
you know, moving back to the smell, Gibson thing he
does disagree with mal like. To his credit, I have
seen Joe Rogan stand up for what he believes in
in opposition to his opponent on the show twice. Once
was with Tucker Carlson when Tucker Carlson evolution was fake,
and once was with Mel Gibson when Mel Gibson says
evolution is fake. So we'll give him a single point
for that, but that's not going to be enough for
me to overturn the rest of the damage that he's
done to this. I'll say it to the scientific literacy
of this nation.
Speaker 10: I like, I do believe Seth that that we've reached
a point where it's like, you know, there's an old
joke twenty thirty years ago or whatever where people are like, yeah,
we're we're discussing climate change, right, we have a PhD
scientist here, and then we also have like cousin Joe
from down the road, and we're going to give them
equal time. And it's like that was the joke and
that they're using that as the rubric for how to
have these conversations now on places like Fox and places
like Joe Rogan, who had Karence Howard the guy who
says one times one is two multiple times on the show.
He's been on there more than once.
Speaker 2: Like the actor Tarren Toward say that he had some
sort of a like magical brain power and he could
like move objects and shit, I mean the guy.
Speaker 10: Is just the guy is bananas, man. I mean he yeah,
he thinks that he started being conscious in his mother's womb.
The guy's office rocker.
Speaker 2: But you say that Joe Rogan pushes back, and I agree,
But he pushes back in the way where he's like, wow,
well what about But I didn't hear a lot of conviction.
You say that Rogan, to be fair, is actually saying, nah,
that this may not be true, and we need to
give him props for that, you think, I mean, props
may not be the word, Erica.
Speaker 10: Really, we can give him props for it in the
same way that we could give gosh, like, let's pick
someone like comically evil just to contrast it, right, Well,
you can give him props for that in the same
way that you could give Hitler props for being an
animal lover. You know, he loved dogs who sweep to
his dogs. It's like, yeah, that's great, but you're also
doing all this other really bad stuff. I am not
in any way saying that this is on that same
level or even in the same stratosphere. But what I
am saying is Brugen has done a lot of He's
had a lot of looney opinions, and he's had a
lot of bad opinions, and he's let a lot of
people who do not know what they're talking about kind
of steamroll them on the show, pushing back one time
out of all of those other times. And as you said,
it's not even really a pushback, it's more like incredulous.
You really don't think evolution is really.
Speaker 2: You know, which, no, I look forward to the Graham
Hancock fans saying Erica says that Joe Rogan is like Hitler.
Speaker 10: I enjoy them that I'm sure that's going to happen,
which in no way do I think that that is
even a little bit of the case. That's why I said,
comically juxtaposed that we won't care though Graham Hancock fans
are reasonilar to the Robert Sepper fans, which is to
say that they won't listen to what I'm saying. They'll
be like, well, she's a woman, and then they like
to say that I'm Jewish. I'm not Jewish, but they
will say that I'm Jewish, and for those two reasons,
I can't be trusted.
Speaker 2: That fits right into the Mel Gibson thing. He's not
a huge fan of the Jewish. Apparently either history is
given any indication. So before I get back to playing
some more, Mel, the fake jawbone thing was a real hoax.
This is an example of somebody who was just lying.
Is that correct?
Speaker 10: Yeah, let's dissect this. I'll be as brief as I
can be. So in the early nineteen hundreds, when human
evolution was really coming into full swing, not even full swing,
that's not even the way it was in its burgeoning right, Like,
people were just beginning to start to investigate paleontology, and
in fact, you know, prior to this, Darwin lamented and
on the Origin of Species that the fossil record was
just remarkably incomplete, and the reason for this was because
paleontology wasn't a thing yet. Darwin would live to see
the discovery of archaeopterics and Neanderthals, which was great and
validated his hypothesis. He got to see that and he
was like, you know, check. That's awesome. But compared to
where we were in the nineteen hundreds we had when
Piltdown was discovered, we had about I think it was
like three maybe four hominine we have over twenty five
now if you're being strict. So there's a pretty big
difference between where we were at paleontologically at that time.
So this was proposed by Charles Dawson, not Darwin, but Dawson.
He proposes Piltdown Man as this proof that humans evolved
in Britain, right. He says he discovered it in the UK,
and it's a human skull. It looks it's got some
primitive aspects to it, you know, large canine teeth, kind
of prognaphic like things of that nature. And at the
time people were like, oh okay, like yeah, this, I
guess this checks out kind of and they called the
Piltdown Man. The Piltown Man would be shown to be
a hoax on the part of Charles Dawson in the
nineteen forties, so about thirty years later. And part of
what made that come to light was that several people
were suspicious of it from day one. And the reason
for this was very simple. When the Pilton Man was discovered,
people immediately flocked to the area where it was found
quote unquote found, and they searched there for their entire
lives and found nothing else, not even a tooth. At
that same time, folks like Eugene Dubois had triggered paleoanthropology
being done in Indonesia. Raymond Dart was down in South
Africa and people just kept pulling up hominin bone after
hominin bone after hominin bone, and they started to find
them in ways that was contrasting to what we saw
with Piltdown. Right, So Philton was supposed to be this
early hominin, and they're discovering Australopithecus africanus in South Africa
in the form of Raymond Dart, and he's the one
who sort of named it. And it's got a small
brain but like human like teeth, and it's clearly walking
on two feet, whereas pilt Down looked like the opposite.
It looked like it had a big brain but was
probably like a knuckle walker or whatever. That was what
was proposed that big brains evolved first. In reality, we
know by pedalism evolved first. So anyways, in the nineteen forties,
paleion anthropologists finally get to look a piltdown Man right,
Like they actually get to get it from the folks
who were studying it and get a better look at it,
and they're like, yeah, this is an orangutan jaw and
a human skull and chimpanzee teeth. Make to look as
if it's older than it is. So you hear that
and you're like, oh my God, like that doubt on
every single other fine in paleoanthropology, and the people who
found this hoax thought the same thing. So every single
other find was ridiculously scrutinized to the same degree that
Piltdown was. And everything one held water because the stratigraphy,
in the teponomy and the morphology was all like put
under a microscope to see if this stuff really came
from where people said it was. And then there was
the little fact where we kept pulling them up out
of the ground over and over and over again. So
Piltown Man is, to our knowledge, the only hoax in paleoanthropology,
and it was perpetrated and successfully so for over two decades,
and then people found out. Anthropologists found out, not creationists,
not layman, not people who dug down into the depths
of the secret cabal of anthropology and discovered that they
were they were being lied to, right. It was other anthropologists,
it was other anatomous, it was other biologists, other pealeontologists
who this out. And that's science working as it should.
And as I said earlier, if you want to point
to a hoax and say that in validates a field,
all of paleontology is gone. The amount of dinosaur hoaxes
that have existed, the amount of hoaxes in physics, or
in archaeology or in biblical antiquity, as I said earlier,
is going to invalidate everything, because since the dawn of time,
people have tried to use fakes to elevate their status.
The nice thing about science is that it is quite
literally structured to find those examples and beat those people
down and out of academia so they can stop lying
to people. So now we come to what mel Gibson did.
Mel Gibson references the piltdown, but he calls it something
that is completely different. He doesn't get the hoax right.
He says that zinganthropists was hoaxed.
Speaker 9: Seth.
Speaker 10: This is a completely different thing that was not a hoax,
that is a legitimate hominin that still stands to this day,
of which we have multiple specimens of it. So the
way this went down is that Leaky's right, famous paleothropologist
Mary and Lewis were in Tanzania, right They're doing their
work at old of I Gorge, really famous site, and
they discovered some previous inklings that there were maybe hominins there.
This was back in the nineteen forties, nineteen fifties, nineteen
sixties that they did a lot of this work there.
So one morning Lewis's is feeling sick, so Mary goes
out there and they're searching around and that's when they
discover this hominin skull a cranium and they look at it.
It's the first primitive looking hominin at that site, and
they're like, well, there's tools at this site and this
hominin is at this site, so I guess this hominin
must have made these tools, right, and it's one of
our first toolmakers. They call it xinganthropists. But very shortly
afterwards they discover Homo habilists at this same site. And
the contrast here is really important because zinganthropists has a
small brain and big teeth, And when they first pulled
it up, everybody was like, do we really think that
an ape with a brain this small was capable of
making these types of tools? That was the question. They
were being scientists and saying is that possible? And then
they discover Homo habilists afterwards, same field season, if memory
serves it might have been around that same time, within
like a year or something. They pull up Homo habilist,
much bigger brain, much more advanced teeth, and they're like, okay,
well we have two hominins at this site, one with
a big brain, one with a small The bigger one
probably made the tools, and so the toolmaker's identity changed
from being xinganthropists to being Homo habalyus. Right, so being
a member of our genus and xinganthropists eventually would become paranthropists.
So Ginganthipis is a defunct name. It's known as paranthropists
now because of ic Zen rules. So what mel Gibson
did is he took regular science operating as it normally does,
where you have a question and you discover an answer
to it, and he mistook that example for a separate
time where science was also working as it should. Piltdown
was like twenty years before even in Gingentthrapis and Paranthrapis
and this whole thing at old of I even happened.
He swapped them around, doesn't even know that that's what
he did. Thinks that the situation with the Zindra turned
out to be a hoax when it demonstrably didn't. This
is a hominin that still exists to this day that
we still teach in class. It has a different name, right,
But he just completely botches the entire story. Now, Rogan's
not off the hook because he says Australia pithecus in
this conversation and can't remember what home on the letty is.
Even though this guy is supposed to be interested in
this subject, he can't even get the basics right. So
you've got two Yahoo's here discussing a topic that they
have no business discussing. And I don't say no business
discussing because they're not experts. I say no business discussing
because they didn't even bother to do a Google search
before having this chat.
Speaker 2: Maybe it was one of the early hominins that was
under the shouter of turn you know that was lying
under there.
Speaker 10: Too, or in the ark of the Covenant.
Speaker 2: I think you could be the Covenant. Yeah, well, you
and I could talk for an hour about a lot
of this stuff, but I wanted to camp out on
mel Gibson's specific claim about the fake and how somehow
that disproves all of paleontology and evolutionary biology and human
ancestry and everything else. You know, the great philosopher, scientists,
the great thinker, mel Gibson is parading around the media
beyond Rogan all of these high profile platforms.
Speaker 10: It's so unbelievably frustrating. And the part that really gets
me is that in this clip, mel Gibson says something
along the lines of like, yeah, like, I'm not educated
in this, I'm not well versed in this. I haven't
looked into it, and he straight up says, but I
just kind of feel I just kind of feel like
it's Lee.
Speaker 2: Can explain it, Erica, you know, I just I just
kind of know in my heart it feels like the kind.
Speaker 10: Of thing that would be satirized one hundred years ago
in a book like how on Earth are we at
this point? And these people are as you said this
isn't a conversation that someone's having down.
Speaker 5: At the bar.
Speaker 10: That's fine, you're allowed to ask questions, you're allowed to
chat about this. But when we elevate them to the
same level as experts in a field, who are experts
for a reason, right we can't all be experts in everything.
That's one of the wonders of human society is that
we pick roles for people to have, and we all
become experts in our given area, and then we rely
on the expertise of others in areas that were not experts. Rightly,
I don't know anything about my car, which is why
I take it to a mechanic. But it's like when
you're treating people who have no business talking about the
subject at the same level as an expert. Boy, we're
hadn't got a dark path?
Speaker 2: Well. I spoke to an astrophysicist friend of mine, doctor
Dan Bancheldor, about multiverse theory, and in my alternate universe,
I would air drop you into the Rogan studio at
the moment of that conversation, Erica, I would pay one
thousand dollars to see that go down.
Speaker 10: I would love so much. I would love more than
anything if I had the opportunity to go into a rogan,
I would do it and I would be like, what
are I would level with him, you know, I would
be like, what are you doing? You know you're your treat?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like this, you would and I would be
there for it. We would kickstart that, we'd fundraise, we
could get you, you know, because they do that right.
I'll pay you a million dollars if you'll sit down
with RFK junior doctor Peter Hotez, which is a whole
other conversation. Okay. Our interaction is always a series of digressions, Erica,
And that's a good thing, except when I'm trying to
focus on the subject and i just want to like
keep you for another three hours. But I'm going to
let you go and I'm going to get back to
profiling the Gibson interview. You and I, I think are
going to try to talk again, maybe in a few
weeks about the actual evolution of the human animal from
earlier ancestors, because you did a speech a while back
kind of connecting those dots, because we always say, well,
you know, we evolved from lower primates, but we don't
know how or why, and the creation is certainly don't
know how or why. So I'm going to have you
spell it out for us.
Speaker 10: I'd love that. I'd love to do like a you know,
structured in a way that it's like, all right, if
you watch this show, you will understand the basics. Like
if you watch this show, you will walk away and
you will know at least the basics of this subject,
which is my dream is that everybody would know the basics.
Speaker 2: Oh, I send an email out to Mel Gibson's people,
maybe he'll join us. Listen in they're saying, hey, here's
a link. Mail, here's a link Erica, You're amazing. Thanks
for a jumping out of your day to humor me
on mail.
Speaker 10: Okay, it's always my pleasure to talk about this kind
of stuff. Set, thanks for having me in.
Speaker 2: Just second, I'm going to come back to that eight
thousand year number for the age of humankind in relation
to a fascinating article about something archaeologists dug up in Germany.
We continue with more on Mel next. Okay, we're talking
about Mel Gibson and all kinds of crazy claims, specifically here.
Before I get into the rest, he had referenced his
perspective on the age of human kind.
Speaker 9: But you do think that human beings were created?
Speaker 2: Thank god, I do.
Speaker 9: When do you think that happened?
Speaker 8: When? Probably and not that long ago? Really? No, not
really what do you mean?
Speaker 9: But not that long ago?
Speaker 4: Probably only but eight thousand years ago?
Speaker 9: Really?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Hey, Mel, did you hear about those German archaeologists who
unearthed something that was dated accurately dated to twenty eight
thousand years ago, like more than three times longer than
what you say the oldest age of human beings might be.
Did you read about this because they unearthed an ancient
sex toy. They found a highly polished silt stone dildo
accurately dated to twenty eight thousand years Now, if human
beings weren't around to construct, human beings didn't exist to
fashion and implement a stone schlong, who did it? What
is it? Orangutans but the silver bag, gorilla spider monkeys.
Who in the world is making sex toys if it's
not human beings who were around twenty eight thousand years ago.
I just want to ask Mal. You know you might
dobble check your eight thousand year number, Okay, you know
they were going to talk about COVID nineteen and all
of the conspiracy theories. They are just going after doctor
Anthony Fauci. He certainly made some misstatements and mistakes, but
if you look at the whole of his life, how
in the world does doctor Anthony Fauci become the villain
in their story? And yet he is. But they love ivermectin,
the anti parasite medication commonly used in animals that was
said to be a great prevention and or treatment for
COVID during the height of the pandemic. Joe Rogan took it,
but so many people criticized him for popularizing it.
Speaker 4: I mean I remember, you know, I think they were
giving you a grilling once for taking horse worm medicine.
Speaker 9: Yeah. Funny, which, yeah, funny how that works?
Speaker 8: Yeah, funny, how that works? Funny? How funny? How that
does work? Yeah.
Speaker 9: What's really funny is how that was that a part
of the demise of mainstream media because people were like, well,
this is crazy, this doesn't make it, are you guys
really the news like what is this? Yes, I know
he seemed to be.
Speaker 8: They seem to be complicit with a and you know,
you think, well why why?
Speaker 9: Because of money? I think this is what we were
talking about before that there is good and evil, and
sometimes it manifests itself in a very clear and obvious way.
Speaker 8: And I think that's what that was.
Speaker 9: That was evil, that was putting people's lives second and
putting money first.
Speaker 8: Well, I don't know why I found you still walking around?
Speaker 9: How is that guy still walking around? If just people
understand the history of the AIDS crisis and what that
guy did.
Speaker 2: Doctor Anthony Fauci, he was there front and center during
the AIDS explosion in the nineteen eighties. People were dying,
Nobody knew what was going on. It was a political
nightmare as everybody was pointing and blaming at homosexuals, etc.
Anthony Fauci, the virologist, the expert in his field, teaming
up with other virologists and immunologists over the course of
fifteen years to develop a prevention to save who knows,
I mean countless lives. It was Fauci who established multiple
HIV clinical trial networks, and for those who couldn't get
into the clinical trials, he made a work around so
that other people infected with AIDS could participate in experimental
treatments that were deemed safe enough to try Fauci made
that happen after an Admittedly you start with the LGBT community.
Fauci opened his ears, he opened his mind, and then
he opened his doors to AIDS activists, involving them in
the processes for creating better treatments, more humane treatments, and
for better messaging to the country and the rest of
the world about HIV. Imperfect, Yes, but he was an
indispensable figure in treating and preventing HIV and AIDS, and
he will be remembered in our history books as a
man who helped us save millions of lives. But oh no,
not on Rogan's podcast, not with mel Gibson. No, I
can't believe that guy's still walking around.
Speaker 9: There's more information now available to people instantaneously than ever before.
You look it up on your phone instantly know, Oh,
I've rememted. And the guy who created it won the Nobel.
Speaker 8: Prizec Yeah twenty fourteen, yeah.
Speaker 9: Fifteen, Yeah, for use in human beings. Yeah, So what
the fuck is going on?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 9: Like, how who's running this thing?
Speaker 4: And it's harmless and it wasn't made for horses, it
was made for people, and then they used it for horses, right, right.
Speaker 9: Well, it's like saying PENICILLINUS for horses because they use
that on horses too, Like that's stupid.
Speaker 8: They told me it was from moldy bread.
Speaker 9: That's where it was from.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Okay. Mister Gibson and mister Rogan, who I
am increasingly suspicious might be the same person and they
were just split in a lab decades ago and went
off to live separate lives and now have converged on
the Joe Rogan experience. Ivermectin has been around for decades.
It was originally created to treat animals. It wasn't developed
for use in humans and then transferred to animals. In
twenty fifteen, William C. Campbell won the Nope Belt Prize
in Physiology or Medicine for a version of ivermectin that
specifically treats infection caused by roundworm parasites. The derivative of
avermectin has dramatically lowered the instances of river blindness, elephantiasis,
and other parasitic diseases. Campbell did not win the Nobel
Prize because ivermectin was used to treat viruses. It is
an anti parasitic. The ivermectin used in humans is a
different formulation customized for humans. Mel Gibson Joe Rogan big
fans of RFK Junior, the brainworm infected anti vaxer, the
guy on record on video saying that no vaccine has
ever been proven to be effective. This is the guy
who has said in the past that the COVID virus
was bioengineered to target specific Jewish people and the Chinese,
and that lockdown mandates during the pandemic were the equivalent
of Nazi German. By the way, of course, RFK Junior
Donald Trump's pick to lead the Department of Health and
Human Services. Oh, Mel Gibson and Joe Rogan love them some.
RFK Junior and his book.
Speaker 4: It's even with Rfk's book. And he's an amazing guy.
People say, oh, he's kooky, he's crazy. He's not crazy.
Speaker 2: He's not.
Speaker 4: He's one of the most erudite, you know. They say
he's an anti vaxxer.
Speaker 9: He's not.
Speaker 4: He's not like he's a very shrewd. He's never lost
a case. I don't think when he brings something to suit,
I don't think he's ever been defeated. But that book
is not just him it's him in about a thousand
highly qualified scientists and physicians commenting on the whole situation.
So when you read it, it's a pretty convincing document.
Speaker 2: Perhaps mister Gibson might be equally, if not more impressed,
if he had read the recent headline about seventy seven
no Bel laureates who officially signed the letter urging the
Senate to projecked RFK Junior as the nominee for Health
and Human Services Secretary. Top tier elite scientists, prize winners
in the fields of medicine, chemistry, physics, and economics have
come together and say that he is unfit and he
would put people in jeopardy, rightly saying, maybe the guy
who lies about vaccines causing autism shouldn't be put in
charge of health. I do not see mel Gibson invoking
these guys. And there's a mention of hydroxy chloroquin in
the interview al spare you they just sort of pepper
that in there a little bit. By the way, hydroxy
chloroquin was popularized by a paper that published in twenty twenty.
That paper has officially been retracted because of ethical concerns
and problems with methodology. This guy at the IHU who
published the treatment paper about hydroxy chloroquin the anti malarial drug,
saying that it reduced the levels of virus in patients.
He only used a sample size of like thirty six
patients and they had a very short peer review time.
He submitted his paper on the sixteenth of March twenty twenty.
He published four days later. Subsequent testing was done in
other laboratories and oh lookie, no benefit was actually demonstrated.
So that paper about hydroxy chlora quinn being a treatment
for COVID is retracted. It's gone, it's debunked. It was
and remains absolute bullshits. Will mel Gibson fans and Joe
Rogan listeners actually find this out? I am not optimistic.
You get the idea. Mel Gibson is a mess and
the culture that props mel up remains a mess. And
I wanted to focus on that today. I watched the
entire two and a half hour Rogan mel Gibson interviews
so you don't have to, And I just brought the
soundbited goodies sound bit, the sound biteable. I brought the
goodies for you here, and I'm so glad you you
stuck with me, have a wonderful week. We'll call it
a show. I'll see you back here next time.
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