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Speaker 1: The Thinking Atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol,

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an idea.

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Speaker 2: The population of atheists this country is going through the.

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Speaker 1: Rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I

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tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth, not

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because I put my hand on a book and made

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a wish and working together for a more rational world.

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Speaker 2: Take the risk of thinking. Feel so much more happiness.

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Speaker 3: Truth, Fusian wisdom will come to you that way.

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Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the

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Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews.

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Speaker 2: Just a few days ago, the actor director Mel Gibson

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appeared on the Joe Rogan Podcast and it went pretty

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much as you and I might expect. And I'm going

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to play some clips and do some commentary on that interview.

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I mean, two hours and twenty minutes of what. He

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was promoting his new film starring Mark Wahlberg, a movie

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called Flight Risk. Mel Gibson is an enigma because you

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know he has been in the past such a beloved figure.

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You know, there was a time like mel Gibson, he

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was just the man. If there was a mel Gibson movie,

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you wanted to go see it. He seemed like really

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good people. And then the headlines came out about all

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of the homophobic things that he was saying and what

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he used the N word, and he was verbally and

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even physically abusive, and it was just one example after

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another example of awful behaviors. And you know, it really

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came to a head twenty almost twenty years ago, so

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the whole world was talking about it. Hollywood had kind

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of cast him off, and yet here he is, and

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he's still around, and he still has a career, and

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he's still making millions of dollars for the system and

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for himself. And you know, there's a legitimate question about

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how is this happening? Is there a double standard? Would

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people abide or allow or excuse this kind of thing

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from another actor who may not have had, you know,

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the road Warrior, leather clad bad boy lethal weapon image.

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You know what if Tom Hanks had been on record

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doing and saying the things that Mel Gibson has done

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and said, and especially in light of this new interview

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that he just did for Joe Rogan, I want to

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spend a show talking about Mel Gibson. I'm going to

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take a few detours here and there, and we're going

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to elaborate and investigate. And then later on in the broadcast,

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because Mel tries to talk about fossils, I'm going to

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bring in a palaeontologist. You probably already know who it's

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going to be, but we're going to do that later

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in the broadcast. Okay, First, a quick primer on the

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life of the man. Mel Gibson born in New York

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on the third of January nineteen fifty six. He moved

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with his parents to Sydney, Australia when he was twelve,

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studied acting at the National Institute of Dramatic Art, and

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his first film changed his life. Of course, we're talking

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about the nineteen seventy nine George Miller classic Mad Max,

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for which mel Gibson was paid the staggering sum of

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nine thousand dollars. That's about forty grand in today's money.

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But still compare that to the twenty five million dollars

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he was paid for starring in The Patriots twenty one

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years later. And you and I know the landmark Gibson films,

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The Road Warrior, Lethal Weapon, Maverick, the Austin winning Brave Heart.

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We were soldiers. Beyond directing Brave Heart. He's also directed Apocalypto,

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Hecksaw Ridge, The Man Without a Face, and most notoriously

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two thousand and four is The Passion of the Christ,

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which is a torture porn depiction of Jesus getting the

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shit kicked out of him for almost two hours. It

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was a film shown not just in theaters, but it

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was sort of paraded around and displayed in churches. It

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became the highest grossing R rated film in history at

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that time, six hundred million dollars globally, more than half

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of that revenue domestically. And Oh Joy. Mel Gibson is

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filming a sequel for a twenty twenty six release, The

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Resurrection of the Christ, And of course Jesus Christ in

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those movies is played by actor Jim Cavesl, who is

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several crackers short of a sharkuterie if you will. He

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is a QAnon conspiracy theorist. He also starred in the

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child sex trafficking movie which is definitely not a documentary

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about Tim Ballard, the film The Sound of Freedom, and

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he's just way out there. So he was Jesus in

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two thousand and six, and he will be Jesus in

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twenty twenty six. Back to mel Gibson, it is estimated

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that two day, the sixty seven year old actor, producer, director,

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studio owner and real estate investor has a personal net

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worth of about four hundred and twenty five million dollars.

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And the big blow up, the one everybody was talking about,

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happened almost twenty years ago two thousand and six. But

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mel Gibson's controversial behavior was nothing new. Nineteen eighty three,

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he was in Toronto for a movie shoot. He was

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driving intoxicated, pulled over and Toronto banned him from driving

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a car for three months. The nineteen nineties were right

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with accusations of homophobia. Mel Gibson did an interview in

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nineteen ninety one with the Spanish newspaper where he was

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asked about homosexuality, and he told the paper this quote,

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they take it up the ass. This is only for

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taking a shit. He protested that anyone would ever perceive

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him as gay. Quote Do I look like a homosexual?

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Do I talk like them? Do I move like them?

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The nineteen ninety five depiction of Edward the Second in

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Braveheart became another lightning rod as Glad formerly the Gay

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and Lesbian Alliance against defamation criticized it for being a

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homophobic caricature. LGBT people protested the film for that reason.

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Mel's response was suspiciously devoid of empathy. He said, I'll

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apologize when hell Freeze is over. They can fuck off.

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A few months after that, when he'd finally calmed down,

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Mel Gibson met with GLAD representatives and apparently smoothed over

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some troubled waters. Two thousand and six made global headlines Malibu, California.

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It was reported that Mel Gibson was arrested on suspicion

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of drunk driving. The arresting officer, La County Sheriff Deputy

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James Mee and Officer me documented that Mel was just

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ranting like a madman. Gibson said to the officer, quote

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fucking Jews. The Jews are responsible for all the wars

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in the world. Are you a Jew? Officer me also

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wrote that mel Gibson repeatedly threatened him, saying that he

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owns Malibu and would spend all of his money to

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quote get even. Days later, mel Gibson apologized, saying that

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he had acted like someone completely out of control, and

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then he spoke about his disease of alcoholism. He later

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made a longer, more elaborate apology to the Jewish community

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for his antisemitic remarks. He acknowledged quote vitriolic and harmful words.

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He said there should be no tolerance for those who

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expressed those kinds of hateful remarks. Now it's interesting here

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because Mel Gibson's father, Hutton Gibson, was a Holocaust denier.

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Hutton told The New York Times magazine that the Holocaust

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was fabricated. It was a plot to hide a secret

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deal between Hitler and financiers to move Jews from Germany

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into the Middle East. He also denied that Osama bin

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Laden was behind nine to eleven. The planes that struck

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the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were not occupied,

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but rather they were all operated by remote control. And

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there's a lot of suspicion that Mel's fond opinions heavily

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influenced his son's. We can only speculate Mel Gibson's racism

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and abusive behaviors would continue to surface. And I'm going

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to play some disturbing audio here. July of twenty ten,

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Mel was dating the Russian singer and songwriter Oaksana Grigorieva,

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they'd been together for three years. They had a daughter

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in two thousand and nine. Things were so intense and

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awful at home that Oaksanna secretly recorded one of her

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conversations with mel. The first clip Gibson expressing his disapproval

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about the way his girlfriend dressed.

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Speaker 4: I don't work around in outside clothes.

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Speaker 5: I stayed awful more go out of Republican. It's a

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fucking embarrassment to me. You look like a fucking bitch

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on heat. And if you get raped by a pack

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of nats, lily your phone all right, because you provoked it.

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You are provocatively dressed all the time with your fake foo.

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Do you feel you have to show off? I don't

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like it. I don't want that woman. I don't want shoe.

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I don't believe you anymore. I don't trust you. I

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don't rob you.

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Speaker 2: The next clip, here, Gibson uses the slur wet back

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when talking about Oaksana's live in housekeeper.

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Speaker 5: I will fire if she is at your house, I

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will make it known and fire her.

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Speaker 6: Fine a reporter to the fucking people that takes fucking

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money from the webback.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and this last segment, this is from the same call,

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mel Gibson makes a death threat.

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Speaker 4: I'm shutting you.

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Speaker 5: I'll put you on rose. Do you understand that I'm

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capable of it? Do you understand that?

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Speaker 2: Shortly after that audio was released to the public, mel

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Gibson did an interview with Deadline. He said the tapes

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were heavily edited, he had been having a bad day

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and some people needed context to understand what was going on. Hey,

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we've all had times in a relationship when we've said

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things that were awful and that we didn't really mean.

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I'm normally a good person. It was that kind of thing.

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The same year, he pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor

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battery charge against Oaksaka Grigoryeva, secured a restraining order. In

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twenty ten, mel Gibson put on a three year probation,

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given community service, He paid a four hundred dollars fine,

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and he was ordered to attend a year of anger

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management training. Now around that same time, mel Gibson was

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doing a live TV interview with wg in's Dean Richards

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about his then new movie called Edge of Darkness, and

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this was supposed to be like his recovery movie or

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his return to Hollywood type movie. He'd spent almost half

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a decade kind of shunned by the business after this

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stuff had come to light, but he was slowly climbing

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his way back. This new Martin Campbell film was releasing.

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Dean Richards asked mel Gibson about his reputation is troubled past?

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You know, what were his thoughts? Had he done any reflection?

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And what I find most interesting is the lack of

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empathy and self analysis, self reflection in mel Gibson's response.

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And then, of course there's the word at the end

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what Mel called Dean before the camera feed cut. Here's

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the clip.

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Speaker 7: Do you feel like you're a different person, maybe a

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better person than you were five years ago?

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Speaker 8: Four years ago?

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Speaker 7: I mean everything that we've read about you, you've gone

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through a lot of ups and downs in the past

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few years.

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Speaker 8: Oh yeah, yeah, five, four or five years. Yeah, it's been.

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Speaker 4: Hey, it's a real roller coaster ride. You know, I

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think I'm the same person I always was, except for

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people as they go. Time teaches and you know, you

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learn as you go.

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Speaker 7: So, hey, you think, do you think that the public

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will perceive you any differently after all that's been in

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the news about you?

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Speaker 4: What are you referring to specifically.

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Speaker 7: Referring to the you know, the drinking problems, referring to

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what's been called the anti Semitic rant, referring that's all

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those things.

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Speaker 8: You know, you know what I'm talking about, is it? Okay?

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Speaker 4: So that's almost four years ago, dude, I mean I've

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moved on. I guess you haven't.

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Speaker 7: Well, I'm just I'm just wondering if you think that

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the public has has moved on and will perceive you

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in the same light.

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Speaker 8: Well, I certainly hope.

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Speaker 4: So, you know, it is a while back, and you

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know I've done all the necessary maya kulpas.

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Speaker 8: So let's move on, dude, Come on.

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Speaker 7: Edge of Darkness opens today. It's good to see you

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back in the saddle and doing what you do best.

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Thanks a lot for joining us. Now take care, bye, asshole.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that was roughly fifteen years ago, and despite all

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of the many red flags, somehow Mel Gibson has enjoyed

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a comeback. He is climbing back up the wrung. Hollywood

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has thrown out the welcome Matt welcome back to Hollywood.

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There was an award ceremony in Los Angeles a while back.

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Robert Downey Junior asked Mel Gibson to present Robert a

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special award. He was going to be given some kind

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of award for trophy for something, and to give the award.

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Robert Downey Junior wanted Mel Gibson to do the honors

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because mel had been a part of Robert Downey Junior's

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own recovery from dark days. Here's what he said.

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Speaker 3: Actually, I asked Mel to present this award to me

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for a reason, because when I couldn't get sober, he

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told me not to give up hope, and he urged

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me to find my faith didn't have to be his

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or anyone else's, as long as it was rooted in forgiveness.

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And I couldn't get hired, so he cast me in

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the lead of a movie that was actually developed for him,

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and he kept a roof over my head, and he

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kept food on the table, and most importantly, he said

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that if I accepted responsibility for my wrongdoings, and if

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I embraced that part of my soul, it was ugly

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hugging the cactus, he calls it.

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Speaker 2: He said that if I hugged the.

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Speaker 3: Cactus long enough, I'd become a man of some humility.

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And that my life would take on a new meaning.

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And I did, and it worked. All he asked in

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return was that someday I helped the next guy in

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some small way. It's reasonable to assume that at the

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time he didn't imagine the next guy would be him, or.

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Speaker 2: That someday was tonight.

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Speaker 3: So anyway, on the special occasion, and in light of

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the recent holidays, including Columbus Day, I humbly ask that

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you join me unless you are completely without sin, in

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which case you picked.

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Speaker 2: The wrong industry.

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Speaker 3: And forgiving my friend his trespasses, offering him the same

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clean slate you have me, and allowing him to continue

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his great and ongoing contribution to our collective art without shame.

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He's hugged the cactus long enough.

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Speaker 2: Now My problem here is that nowhere, And send me

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an example if you've got it, because I really want

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to know. But I haven't found an interview, a place,

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a segment, an instance, whatever where mel Gibson has really

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focused and said I was a horrible person with destructive

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idea and I'm so very sorry. That's that's I'm not

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hearing that. I mean, he'll say something horrible and say, well,

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I'm temperamental, and I've got alcoholism, and there are a

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lot of problems, and I'm really sorry, and then I'll

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meet with some people. But I mean, overall there have

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been pockets of remorse, but mostly I think his attitude

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has been what we heard in the wg In piece

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and it's yesterday's news. Why can't people just get over it? Asshole? Right,

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Well that's a problem. And I'm saying this is somebody

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who has loved Mel gibson movies ever since The Road Warrior,

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a masterpiece film. I have rooted for mel Gibson to

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just bust out of this insanity, you know, to overcome

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it and to recover and to make things right. I

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have ached for the day that Mel Gibson would say

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just a few sentences and then commit himself to living

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out those deckslarations, coming forward and saying I was wrong,

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I was hateful, I was a racist, I was a homophobe,

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I was an abuser. I'm broken. It is understandable why

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moral people would want nothing to do with who I

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have been and maybe even who I am. I am

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now from this moment going to commit to the rescue

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of my mind and my heart so that my legacy

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isn't going to be one that is anti humanity. I

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pledge I promise to make myself accountable in my journey.

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I'm going to try to earn trust for those who

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will generously give it. They don't owe me trust, they

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don't even owe me forgiveness. But I'm going to put

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myself out there and try to earn it wherever I can.

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And I'm going to use my tremendous wealth and influence

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and power to advocate for the people that I have

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harmed for so many dec I'm not trying to buy forgiveness.

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I simply want to demonstrate my sincere desire to be

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the better man. Oh my goodness, I think a lot

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of people, many people would respond cautiously, but respond positively

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to this. I mean, how many agents of hate and

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harm have emerged and then committed themselves to the better way.

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I always like to go back to the people who

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were white supremacists, people who were part of the KKK,

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and somehow they had an epiphany and they busted out

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and then committed the rest of their lives to love

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and acceptance and egalitarian, humanitarian values. Their legacy was not

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going to be one of hate but of rescue. I mean,

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it's possible, right, But with mel Gibson, it always seems

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like everybody else is doing the stretching toward him instead

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of him having an evolution. And then just a few

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days ago, Mel Gibson was the featured guest on the

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Joe Rogan Podcast talking about the new film that he

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has directed called Flight Risk, and in just over two hours,

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mel Gibson and Joe Rogan demonstrated again why we simply

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can't have nice things. I'm going to talk about it

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and play some audio in just a second, talking here

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about mel Gibson, his problematic past, but more recently his

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appearance on the Joe Rogan Show. Now, I want to

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preface this first clip from the Rogan broadcast, episode number

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two two five four, where as they were talking about

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the California wildfires that have been unbelievable, just monumental, horrifically bad.

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Mel Gibson's house burned down, but he and Joe Rogan

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had opinions. Here we go, so.

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Speaker 9: Things are more dangerous now?

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Speaker 8: I think they are?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, I think so for sure.

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Speaker 8: Yep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 9: We were just talking about the wildfire situation and how

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crazy it is that they spent twenty four billion dollars

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last year on the homeless. Yeah, and what are they

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spent on preventing these wildfires?

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Speaker 8: Zero zip zip.

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Speaker 4: And in twenty nineteen, I think Newsom said, you know,

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I'm going to take care of the forest and maintain

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the forests and do all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 8: He didn't do.

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Speaker 9: Anything, didn't do anything. And then on top of that,

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they cut the water off.

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Speaker 4: Yeah that's right. Yeah, it's all funny. And then I

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think all our tax dollars probably went for Gavin's hair jail.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so just about everything that was said there is

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a lie, and Governor Gavin Newsom isn't screwing around with

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these people. He's got an entire page of refutations to

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like the Sean Hannity, Donald Trump, Fox News lie is

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about forest mismanagement and the reservoirs are empty, and you know,

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there's not enough water for southern California and some of

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it's being deliberately burned as part of a conspiracy to

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make cheap apartment land. I mean, there's a whole ton

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of stuff going out there. And so he's got this

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page titled California fire Facts. And if I can just

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digress for just a second. I want to read something

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about the California wildfires. I know this is a Melt

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Gibson themed show, but if they're going to talk about California,

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I thought I would share this, which posted on the

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tenth of January. The poster's name is Lauren Sinnott. She's

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a historian who lives in Point Arena, California. Her post

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went viral. She said, I've learned a lot in the

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last few days about the LA fires and why this

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is happening. Local LA media and some of my MSNBC

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news shows have been really informative. Laurence O'Donnell has a

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home in LA and he gave an impassion presentation tonight

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for the scientific specifics and especially good sources. Daniel Swain

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the UCLA climatologist. You can find him at weatherwest dot

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com and on social media. What is happening in LA

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is to fire as a blizzard is to snow, as

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a hurricane is to rain. This is all about the

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wind and the California climate and climate change. Number one,

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A lot of people who don't live here also don't

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understand the Mediterranean climate. For six months of the year,

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we do not have rain. This can create very dry conditions.

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The other six months should contain significant amounts of rain.

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Number two. The vegetation around La is brushy with smaller trees.

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During our six months without rain, this vegetation becomes very dry,

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even if and especially when there has been a lot

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of rain in the preceding winter. A lot of rain

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makes the vegetation grow. Then in the summer it all

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dries out. That happened during the last couple of years,

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so there's a lot of fuel for fire, and it

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doesn't stay moist and shady as in a tall, dense

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redwood forest or in a Midwestern or Eastern forest where

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rain occurs during the summer. In southern California, it all

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just dries out every summer, no matter how much rain

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came in the preceding winter. Number three. For most of

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the year, coastal California gets a lot of moisture laden

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cool wind coming from the Pacific Ocean and blowing onto

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the land. However, that changes during part of the year

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in southern California, typically from October to January. This is

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when the Santa Ana winds blow in the other direction.

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The Santa Ana winds are what is creating the situation.

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These are high dry winds coming from California's inland desert

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areas blowing out toward the sea. Number four. What can

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help prevent catastrophic fires is the fact that typically by

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the time the Santa Ana winds start, the dry half

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of the year is ending and rains come. That is

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happening less consistently now. When the long dry season extends

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into October and November and December, as has happened in

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southern California this year, all of that voluminous dry vegetation

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from the previous wet years is overlapping with the Santa

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Ana winds. This is a recipe for disaster number five.

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When winds blow at these high speeds with gusts up

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to one hundred miles an hour, as happened in La

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00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:02,000
on Tuesday, fire is inevitable and can be stopped. Planes

401
00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:06,359
and helicopters cannot fly to drop water or retardant from

402
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,480
the air, Sparks and embers will be blasted across even

403
00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:15,599
an extensive, densely built urban area. Fires on that wind

404
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,440
are like a blowtorch and can't be stopped. Number six.

405
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,319
Only when the wind dies down can effective firefighting happen,

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and even then the wind can return. This is what

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00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,920
firefighters and residents are battling in LA right now. This

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is how entire neighborhoods can be burned in one night,

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in multiple locations, creating conditions firefighters can't stop, can only

410
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,319
suppress until the conditions change, like waiting out a hurricane,

411
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a hurricane of fire. And there's a PostScript, and I'm

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00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,599
going to take the time to read it for you.

413
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The water for LA comes from local ground water and

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00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:04,680
three big areas, the southern Coastal Mountains via the California Aqueduct,

415
00:27:05,079 --> 00:27:09,160
the Sierra Nevadas via the La Aqueduct, and the Rocky

416
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:14,640
Mountains via the Colorado River Aqueduct. The Pacific Palisades is

417
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,359
fed by a thirty six inch line that flows by

418
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:23,880
gravity from the Stone Canyon Reservoir, itself supplied by the

419
00:27:24,079 --> 00:27:28,519
LA Aqueduct. The larger lower Stone Canyon Reservoir has a

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00:27:28,519 --> 00:27:33,559
capacity of three point three eight billion gallons, and together

421
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,440
the reservoirs operated by the Los Angeles Department of Water

422
00:27:37,519 --> 00:27:42,000
and Power have a capacity of four point one billion gallons.

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Because of the abundant rainfall during the two previous winters.

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The reservoirs were full except for one, the one hundred

425
00:27:51,279 --> 00:27:55,200
and seventeen million gallons Santa Ynez Reservoir, which had been

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00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:59,960
closed months earlier for repair. Its capacity of the total

427
00:28:00,319 --> 00:28:03,960
is two point eighty five percent. Officials say it may

428
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,519
have helped to some extent with a pressure issue had

429
00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:09,559
it been online, but not enough to make a difference.

430
00:28:10,599 --> 00:28:15,039
The horrible circumstance of fire hydrants not producing sufficient water

431
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,559
is sometimes happening, but not because there is not enough

432
00:28:18,759 --> 00:28:22,920
water stored. The two previous winters brought a good amount

433
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,559
of rain. Major reservoirs are full, but the water must

434
00:28:26,599 --> 00:28:30,599
be accessed. The pipes that bring water into neighborhoods scale

435
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,240
down from max size into systems that often involve smaller

436
00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:38,519
tanks and basins that must be pumped full at times.

437
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,400
Electricity has been turned off in many areas, and electricity

438
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,000
powers the system that keeps the water pressurized. It's an

439
00:28:48,039 --> 00:28:52,240
issue of lack of pressure, not lack of water, and

440
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,960
aircraft that can scoop up water even from the ocean

441
00:28:56,359 --> 00:29:01,640
can't fly in heavy winds. Basically, municipal water systems are

442
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,119
designed to fight more limited fires in a house or

443
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:10,160
a block. These are raging wildfires brought into the city

444
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,880
where they normally wouldn't occur by the wind. I ran

445
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,680
this by some geologists and of course some resident friends

446
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,240
of mine in California, and they said, yeah, these things

447
00:29:22,519 --> 00:29:25,920
check out. I found it quite impressive. Joe Rogan and

448
00:29:26,039 --> 00:29:32,400
Mel Gibson apparently oblivious, as they both obviously are, about

449
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:37,440
the Jesus Story, the Bible, and Christianity, the entire religion.

450
00:29:37,559 --> 00:29:42,240
Joe Rogan asking Mel Gibson about the upcoming sequel to

451
00:29:42,319 --> 00:29:44,759
the Passion of the Christ, So.

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Speaker 9: Are you doing this with historians as well? You're trying

453
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to make it young.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, historical stuff.

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00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 4: Well, I regard the Gospels as history.

456
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 8: It's a verifiable history.

457
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Speaker 4: Some people say, oh, it's a fairy tale, he never exists,

458
00:29:56,359 --> 00:30:00,920
but he did. And there are other accounts, verifying historical

459
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,599
accounts outside the biblical ones that also bear this up

460
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:05,839
that yes, he did exist.

461
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Speaker 8: And the other aspect of that is that the all.

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Speaker 4: The evangelists, the apostles who went out there, every single

463
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,440
one of those guys died rather than deny their belief.

464
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And nobody dies for a lie.

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Speaker 8: Nobody.

466
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Speaker 4: So that's part of what I'm doing. It's like showing

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00:30:29,079 --> 00:30:30,240
nobody dies for a lie.

468
00:30:31,119 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 2: Okay, all of those things are untrue. I mean, was

469
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,160
there a guy named Jesus? Very possibly, But the first

470
00:30:41,519 --> 00:30:46,839
reference outside the Bible to Jesus was what Josephus in

471
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,480
the Antiquities we're talking about roughly seventy years after the

472
00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:55,559
alleged cracive fixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the

473
00:30:55,599 --> 00:30:58,359
whole Well, they wouldn't have died for a lie. Thing

474
00:30:58,599 --> 00:31:03,519
references what could be fictional characters in the story. So

475
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,200
you know, oh yeah, Matthew, Mark Luke and John Yeah,

476
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,559
they died in the story, Which means, what if you're

477
00:31:09,599 --> 00:31:12,039
right about a character that dies, that makes the character

478
00:31:12,359 --> 00:31:17,039
am the story real? It's such lazy non reasoning. And

479
00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:19,440
of course Joe Rogan is just sitting over there looking

480
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,359
like a piece of awestruck furniture, going.

481
00:31:22,519 --> 00:31:26,279
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, Well, the resurrection is the one that is

482
00:31:26,319 --> 00:31:30,680
the most difficult for people to swallow. Yes, this is

483
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,319
the one that requires the most.

484
00:31:32,119 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 4: Faith, the most faith in the most belief. Yeah resurrection. Yeah,

485
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,000
who gets back up three days later after he gets

486
00:31:39,079 --> 00:31:40,039
murdered in public?

487
00:31:41,599 --> 00:31:45,559
Speaker 8: Who gets back up under his own power? Buddha didn't

488
00:31:45,599 --> 00:31:46,319
do that shit.

489
00:31:46,599 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 9: Right, you know, so you believe that was a real event, Yeah,

490
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,240
I do. Yeah, what brought you to that belief? Is

491
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,440
this something you've always had or is it something you

492
00:31:57,519 --> 00:32:00,200
studied it and you've come to this conclusion because the

493
00:32:00,759 --> 00:32:01,880
historical accounts?

494
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,119
Speaker 4: And yes, I think as a child, you know, one

495
00:32:06,279 --> 00:32:08,559
accepts things on faith because you know, you're raised by

496
00:32:08,599 --> 00:32:10,240
people who are nice to you and they believe it.

497
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:13,319
And my dad was a pretty smart guy. And I

498
00:32:13,319 --> 00:32:17,079
still have that faith. But as I got older, I

499
00:32:17,119 --> 00:32:20,839
came to it through intellect and through reading and putting

500
00:32:20,839 --> 00:32:22,160
things together in accounts.

501
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,599
Speaker 8: And then occurrence is like in my own life, you know.

502
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 4: I mean, just recently they've verified the Shroud of Turin.

503
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:29,559
Speaker 8: Have you seen that.

504
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,319
Speaker 9: I've been reading about it, and I know that there's

505
00:32:33,359 --> 00:32:36,920
some contention, there's some some discussion and debate about it.

506
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,000
But they used to think that it was only a

507
00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:42,720
couple hundred years old. Yeah, and now they've changed that.

508
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, they've said no, it's back then.

509
00:32:44,799 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 9: They also don't understand how it was made, which to

510
00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:51,079
me is very fascinating because it's not paint, it's not

511
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,680
they don't know what caused the image itself, and how

512
00:32:54,799 --> 00:32:58,440
that technology would have even been available. It wasn't a

513
00:32:58,440 --> 00:32:59,400
couple thousand.

514
00:32:59,119 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 4: Years ago an intense light i mean atomic to leave

515
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,160
almost like a photographic imprint on a piece of cloth.

516
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I'm I'm sorry.

517
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:16,799
Speaker 6: The Shroud of Turin. You gotta be shitting me, right,

518
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:21,680
The Shroud of Turin has it's like flat Earth. It

519
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,720
has been debunked for so long that very few people

520
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,000
even talk about it anymore.

521
00:33:27,119 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: Where was it dated like the early or wait, the

522
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:35,079
late fourteenth century. Even bishops and priests in the Catholic

523
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,160
Church we're talking about how it's a bunch of crap.

524
00:33:37,799 --> 00:33:40,480
It was a sleight of hands. You know, this wasn't

525
00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:45,079
the actual shroud that Jesus was entombed in. I mean,

526
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:49,440
if the Roman Catholic Church says it's fake and that's

527
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,920
the official position, and mel Gibson identifies as a Catholic,

528
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,160
why are we talking about the Shroud of Turin? And again,

529
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,720
Joe Rogan is just sitting over there kind of nodding

530
00:33:59,759 --> 00:34:01,720
and smiling like a bobblehead.

531
00:34:01,839 --> 00:34:04,279
Speaker 9: It's wild. Pull that up, pull the shroud to turn up.

532
00:34:04,359 --> 00:34:06,480
Oh yeah, it's wild to look at because it's it's

533
00:34:06,519 --> 00:34:07,440
so interesting.

534
00:34:07,759 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you can see it that it depicts a

535
00:34:12,039 --> 00:34:15,159
first century Hebrew male because the hairstyle was from the

536
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:19,440
first century and a Hebrew hairstyle. That he was about

537
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,599
six feet tall, that he was completely scourged all over

538
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:24,239
his body, he was crucified.

539
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:28,639
Speaker 9: The one on the left is the one on the

540
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,679
right is just like an artistic rendition.

541
00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:31,679
Speaker 2: That's the face.

542
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 9: Yeah, click on that one, the face, the face. Yeah,

543
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,880
that's good enough. Get that large. That's fucking crazy. Yeah, yeah,

544
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,000
what is the latest on that, Jammy? Can you see?

545
00:34:41,119 --> 00:34:44,960
Like I was trying to get that two different articles

546
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:46,199
from within the last six.

547
00:34:46,039 --> 00:34:50,119
Speaker 4: Months, opposite of course, didn't know which one sounded the

548
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:50,920
most accurate.

549
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 9: Well, it's such a crazy thing to even try to verify.

550
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,559
What are you, like, what are you saying. You're saying

551
00:34:58,559 --> 00:35:01,679
that this is really the shroud that Jesus was covered in.

552
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:06,519
So you're saying Jesus historically absolutely did exist, and we

553
00:35:06,599 --> 00:35:08,880
think that this is the shroud that covered them. Just

554
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:14,360
that alone, people incredulity. People's immediately they're their hackles raise

555
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,119
like wait a minute, wait, wait a minute, and they're

556
00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:18,960
just instead of like looking at it, objectively. They don't

557
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,159
almost always want to look at it from a point

558
00:35:21,159 --> 00:35:24,719
of view of disproving it immediately, dismissing it immediately.

559
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,679
Speaker 4: But that's you know, that's science, isn't it. You have

560
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:28,960
to say, you know, you play the devil's advocate.

561
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,559
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, somebody explained to these two people how science

562
00:35:33,639 --> 00:35:36,920
actually works. Hey, so and so, bring up an image

563
00:35:37,199 --> 00:35:38,840
and put it on the screen. Let's take a look

564
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,800
at it. Wow, that's really impressive. So much mystery. Well,

565
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:48,559
you know, those scientists are off like skeptical. That's what

566
00:35:48,639 --> 00:35:51,800
scientists are supposed to be. And then you go and

567
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,840
you test and you retest and you're verifying your peer review.

568
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,679
And you know what I'm saying, the way these people

569
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,159
treat quote unquote facts, I don't care if he's a

570
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,920
nice guy or whatever. In real life, Joe Rogan is

571
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,159
one of the dumbest dudes on the planet. And the

572
00:36:07,199 --> 00:36:09,360
fact that he is so widely popular, to me, it

573
00:36:09,519 --> 00:36:13,239
blows my mind. The fact that people get their data

574
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,639
or whatever you want to call it, from the Joe

575
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,199
Rogan Show. They learn about the world. They're learning about

576
00:36:20,199 --> 00:36:25,480
the world from Joe Rogan and Mel Gibson. Somebody somebody,

577
00:36:25,519 --> 00:36:26,880
I need a tranquilizer.

578
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,039
Speaker 9: Are you aware of Graham Hancock. Oh?

579
00:36:29,119 --> 00:36:29,199
Speaker 5: No.

580
00:36:29,519 --> 00:36:34,039
Speaker 9: Graham Hancock is a sort of a historian that has

581
00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:37,960
a very uh he's got a series on Netflix. He's

582
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,880
a fascinating guy and his career started because he was

583
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:48,400
investigating this, these accounts in Ethiopia of the Ark of

584
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,599
the Covenant and that they believe the Ark of the

585
00:36:50,639 --> 00:36:54,000
Covenant is in this one church that's protected by all

586
00:36:54,039 --> 00:36:58,039
these monks that wind up getting cataracts and radiation disease

587
00:36:58,119 --> 00:37:01,920
and sickness, and they think that it's because they're protecting

588
00:37:02,559 --> 00:37:05,840
this Arc of the Covenant, this actual thing, that it's

589
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,000
an actual physical thing that's there.

590
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:09,639
Speaker 8: And if you touch it you get example to you.

591
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,159
Speaker 9: Yeah, and that even being in its presence fucks these

592
00:37:12,159 --> 00:37:12,679
people up.

593
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:21,559
Speaker 8: Maybe maybe.

594
00:37:20,159 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 6: Joe Rogan with a straight face, is invoking pseudo scientists

595
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,880
and host of Angent Apocalypse.

596
00:37:29,159 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 2: On Netflix, Gram Hancock. Now, let me give you just

597
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,480
a little bit of background on Graham Hancock, because he's

598
00:37:37,519 --> 00:37:42,559
a piece of work. He believes this. The world suffered

599
00:37:42,599 --> 00:37:47,519
a massive ecological disaster after comets struck the Earth about

600
00:37:47,559 --> 00:37:52,920
thirteen thousand years ago, Okay, and during those supposed impacts.

601
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,920
There was floods and temperature drops and climate craziness and

602
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:03,840
all kinds of geological term that cause civilizations to just disappear,

603
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,480
civilizations that you and I don't know about and that

604
00:38:07,639 --> 00:38:13,079
our historians refuse to acknowledge. One of those civilizations is

605
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:19,400
and I shit you not, the Lost City of Atlantis.

606
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,000
And according to Hancock, it is the Lost City of

607
00:38:24,039 --> 00:38:28,599
Atlantis or the survivors from that helped to introduce everything

608
00:38:28,639 --> 00:38:34,800
from agriculture, architecture, astronomy, art, math, and basic civilization to

609
00:38:35,119 --> 00:38:39,440
hunter gatherers who could then evolve into the human beings

610
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,079
that you and I see today. It's all because of

611
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,960
the Lost City of Atlantis. So now Joe Rogan is

612
00:38:46,079 --> 00:38:49,079
using this man as his source on the Arc of

613
00:38:49,159 --> 00:38:51,280
the Covenant. This stems back to a book that was

614
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,519
published in nineteen ninety two called The Sign and the Seal,

615
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:59,599
The Quest for the Lost Arc of the Covenant, and

616
00:39:00,559 --> 00:39:07,559
historians and geologists and archaeologists have examined his claims, and

617
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,239
I would suspect they are still laughing their asses off.

618
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,639
I mean, this is just wacky, wacky stuff. And Joe

619
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,880
Rogan is like, well, you know, they think it might

620
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:23,079
be buried in a church somewhere, and the evidence is

621
00:39:23,199 --> 00:39:27,960
that people around seem to be getting strangely sick. You

622
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,360
and I are thinking, oh, people get sick. Maybe there's

623
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:35,320
a bad ground water pollution in the air of virus.

624
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,440
Joe Rogan says, maybe it's the arc of the Covenant.

625
00:39:41,159 --> 00:39:45,159
Dare I play even more examples from the Joe Rogan

626
00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:50,719
Mel Gibson interview. Oh yes, I will we continue next.

627
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:01,079
I think about all of the most popular podcasters, communicators, entertainers,

628
00:40:01,639 --> 00:40:04,480
people on this world who have become household names that

629
00:40:04,519 --> 00:40:09,760
we have showered with influence and wealth. When I look

630
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:14,760
at Joe Rogan and I think why we're talking about

631
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:19,159
Rogan again, Because he had Mel Gibson on his broadcast

632
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,960
just a few days ago. Mel was addressing his alcoholism

633
00:40:25,039 --> 00:40:27,920
and some of the mistakes of his past. He was

634
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,360
speaking in the context of forgiveness from God.

635
00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 4: You have to be able to accuse yourself and understand

636
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,920
that there is it's a great deal of mercy involved

637
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:46,360
in the fact that I believe that God sent his

638
00:40:46,519 --> 00:40:50,440
son down to tell us, Okay, I'm going to ransom

639
00:40:50,519 --> 00:40:54,880
you people from your fallen nature, and I'll give you

640
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,400
a roadmap on how to do it. It's an interesting

641
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:04,280
fact to note that the first canonized saint, you know

642
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,400
who it was the first ever confirmed canonization.

643
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:08,760
Speaker 8: As a saint.

644
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:12,119
Speaker 4: He was Dismiss. You know who Dismiss was. No, he

645
00:41:12,159 --> 00:41:14,000
was hanging. He was the thief on the cross next

646
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:18,360
to Jesus, and he says to him, you're gonna be

647
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:23,400
okay this day, you'll be with me. I'm baptized, criminal

648
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:25,159
all that stuff.

649
00:41:25,559 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 2: So wow, okay, I guess he was speaking colloquially or something.

650
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:36,360
The first canonized saint was sainted by Pope John the

651
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:41,519
fifteenth That was in nine to ninety three CE, Saint

652
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:49,400
Ulrich of Augsburg. It wasn't a guy named Dismiss who

653
00:41:49,519 --> 00:41:52,320
was hanged, Like, how do you know his name? And

654
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,079
why is his name Dismiss?

655
00:41:54,199 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 5: Oh?

656
00:41:54,559 --> 00:42:00,559
Speaker 2: Lookie. Joe Rogan and Mel Gibson want to talk about evolution.

657
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 9: What are your thoughts on evolution?

658
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:12,119
Speaker 4: M hm, wow, eh, the Darwin thing.

659
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,760
Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't really go for it.

660
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 4: No, Yeah, I say age dinosaurs. You know what did

661
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:25,400
they turn into? I mean things became extinct at some point.

662
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:30,079
I don't think I was some kind of like, you know,

663
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,159
legless thing that crawled out of the ocean.

664
00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 8: I don't think I came from that. I think I

665
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:35,639
was created.

666
00:42:36,199 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 9: Do you think other things were legless things that came

667
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:41,960
out of the ocean. Do you think, like multi celled

668
00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:45,079
organisms came out of single celled organisms and there was

669
00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:49,880
some sort of a natural selection and random mutation and

670
00:42:50,119 --> 00:42:51,719
it led to everything else but us.

671
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:56,639
Speaker 4: Sure, look a gain of function, right, you can like

672
00:42:57,039 --> 00:43:00,000
you can make stuff happen, and I'm sure stuff did happen.

673
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,239
Speaker 8: But I think it's all part of creation. I think

674
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:05,079
it's all ordered.

675
00:43:05,679 --> 00:43:08,519
Speaker 4: I think anyone left anything left to itself without some

676
00:43:08,599 --> 00:43:13,199
kind of intelligence behind it will devolve into chaos, and

677
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,480
so that there has to be some big intelligence that

678
00:43:15,599 --> 00:43:19,079
orchestrates everything. Not that we don't have chaos in the world,

679
00:43:19,159 --> 00:43:21,840
but I think that's our own making. Yeah, I'm just

680
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,679
not totally convinced. I feel it, and I can't really.

681
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 8: I'm sorry. I can't intellectually tell.

682
00:43:27,559 --> 00:43:31,199
Speaker 4: You why I don't believe an evolution, but I don't.

683
00:43:31,679 --> 00:43:33,719
It's just a feeling. I don't think I was some

684
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,159
ape or. I don't think my ancestors were. I think

685
00:43:37,159 --> 00:43:38,800
they had to be pretty smart to survive.

686
00:43:39,039 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 9: So what do you think all these pre human hominids

687
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,039
are that they keep discovering.

688
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 8: Like, tell me what a prehuman hominy.

689
00:43:46,159 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 9: Like australiapithet is or some of the other human like

690
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,840
creatures that never made it, like Denisovan's neantals.

691
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 8: Yeah yeah, stuff like that.

692
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, they've got something called zynganthropists, you remember him,

693
00:43:59,079 --> 00:44:02,159
no zinganthropist man, and he was like.

694
00:44:02,519 --> 00:44:04,760
Speaker 8: He look kind of like this, but he was like.

695
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 4: They looked at it and they did some core samples

696
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,760
on it, and it was put out there by people

697
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,719
advocating evolution, and they discovered that it was a human

698
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:16,760
skull attached to the jaw of an ape.

699
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:18,639
Speaker 9: Oh I do remember?

700
00:44:18,639 --> 00:44:19,639
Speaker 8: So it was a hop Yeah.

701
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 9: There's been some hoaxes, yeah, yeah, but there's also been

702
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:23,880
real stuff.

703
00:44:24,039 --> 00:44:29,599
Speaker 2: Really yeah, ah, somebody fakes something once. So no, no, no,

704
00:44:29,639 --> 00:44:32,280
the conversation continues and it just doesn't get any better.

705
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:33,719
But I got to play this. Here we go.

706
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,519
Speaker 9: You know, Australia pithecus. There's a bunch of different you know,

707
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:42,440
the Lucy skeleton, there's a bunch of different pre human hominids.

708
00:44:42,519 --> 00:44:44,639
Speaker 8: Yeah, maybe there were monkeys, I don't know.

709
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 9: Yeah, well there was they're similar to us, just not

710
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,599
where we are. They're on the road to becoming what

711
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:52,199
it means to be a human being.

712
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:53,599
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.

713
00:44:53,679 --> 00:44:54,559
Speaker 9: What do you think those are?

714
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,199
Speaker 4: I don't know. They could be animals, or they could

715
00:44:58,199 --> 00:44:59,719
be like look at today, I mean, you can get

716
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,559
some skido can bite you, and your kid can be

717
00:45:02,599 --> 00:45:04,599
born with a malformed skull or something.

718
00:45:04,639 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 8: It's like, you know, they have those, you know.

719
00:45:07,079 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 9: Yeah, but this is like a like a genetic thing

720
00:45:11,559 --> 00:45:14,400
like they've done, They've mapped the genome of these creatures.

721
00:45:14,519 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 8: They're different.

722
00:45:15,519 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I don't know how to explain those, Joe,

723
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:19,840
I don't know.

724
00:45:20,599 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 9: But but you do think that human beings were created

725
00:45:23,639 --> 00:45:24,159
by God?

726
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:24,599
Speaker 8: I do.

727
00:45:25,079 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 9: When do you think that happened?

728
00:45:27,599 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 8: When?

729
00:45:28,599 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 4: Probably and not that long ago?

730
00:45:31,199 --> 00:45:31,519
Speaker 8: Really?

731
00:45:31,679 --> 00:45:33,400
Speaker 9: No, not really, Like what do you mean by not

732
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:34,159
that long ago?

733
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:36,800
Speaker 4: Probably only about eight thousand years ago?

734
00:45:37,039 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 9: Really? Yeah, So what do you think things like go

735
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,159
Beckley tape are when they find these constructions that are

736
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,400
dated carbon dated to eleven thousand plus years old?

737
00:45:46,559 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 4: I question carbon dating?

738
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:52,159
Speaker 9: Really, Yeah, that's a lot simpler.

739
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, they they're Yeah, there's a lot of money

740
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,880
in in you know, claims and.

741
00:45:58,079 --> 00:46:00,519
Speaker 2: Okay, I took kind of a bunny traggler. Earlier in

742
00:46:00,599 --> 00:46:03,760
the show, Ryan, we spend ten twelve fifteen minutes talking

743
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:08,199
about climate change, and because this is a podcast with

744
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,519
no rules, where we make the rules. So I'm going

745
00:46:10,599 --> 00:46:13,559
to take another detour and spend I don't know, ten

746
00:46:13,639 --> 00:46:18,360
fifteen minutes doing what mel Gibson did not do. I'm

747
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,639
going to talk to everybody's favorite palaeontologist, host of the

748
00:46:22,679 --> 00:46:26,960
Gutzig Gibbon Channel, Eric, Thanks for being here. What do

749
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,480
you think about this, this fake fossil disproving evolution?

750
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 10: Well, this is you know, this is a this is

751
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,440
this is a classic, right, like this is a card

752
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,760
that gets pulled. It's like I was covering Doug Wilson

753
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:41,599
a couple of weeks, a couple of months ago now

754
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,679
and the sort of hoax of this particular specimen, which

755
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:47,599
we'll talk about in a minute, because there's some issues

756
00:46:47,639 --> 00:46:50,960
with even how Melkison brings it to the table. Shocking,

757
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,119
I know, but this is like a this is your

758
00:46:53,119 --> 00:46:56,519
starter deck, This is your creationist starter deck argument saying

759
00:46:56,559 --> 00:46:59,559
that all of human evolution is invaludated because of a hoax,

760
00:46:59,599 --> 00:47:02,840
of a single hoax when people bring it up. I

761
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,320
tend to just say, okay, like, if you're going to

762
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,960
say that a hoax within a field invalidates that field,

763
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,800
we don't have any fields left. And in fact, I'm

764
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:17,360
going to gesture madly to Biblical antiquity, which is notorious

765
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,800
for having people faking ancient artifacts, you know, from the

766
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,679
body parts of the Apostles or Marry to the shroud

767
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,079
of Turin, to the Ark of the Covenant that the

768
00:47:27,119 --> 00:47:30,119
Ethiopians say that they have. I don't think that mel

769
00:47:30,119 --> 00:47:32,760
Gibson would agree that the Ethiopians have the Ark of

770
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,440
the Covenant, and yet that wouldn't invalidate his faith, would it.

771
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:41,440
It is selectively weaponized to discount things that he finds uncomfortable.

772
00:47:42,039 --> 00:47:46,000
Now the hoax in question he gets wrong. Shocking, What

773
00:47:46,159 --> 00:47:48,840
how is that possible? Mel Gibson not being an expert

774
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:50,440
on the stuff that he talks that he chooses to

775
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,639
talk about. On Joe Rogan, I wish I had the confidence.

776
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 2: I take it. You're not a Rogan fan.

777
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm not a Rogan fan.

778
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 2: Can say it, you can say it.

779
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,639
Speaker 4: Come on, yes, I'm not.

780
00:48:03,559 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 10: A Rogan fan. And you know it sucks because originally

781
00:48:07,079 --> 00:48:10,239
me and Joe we united on our love for chimpanzees.

782
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,079
Joe loves chimps. He loves talking about how crazy chimps

783
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:14,880
are and how cool they are and how like us

784
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:16,199
they are. And I can meet in the middle with

785
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,039
him on that for sure, not even meet in the middle.

786
00:48:18,039 --> 00:48:20,480
I'm fully on his side love chimps. But the problem

787
00:48:20,519 --> 00:48:24,519
with Joe Rogan is that he he takes every conspiracy

788
00:48:24,559 --> 00:48:27,079
theory and really every position of every guest that he

789
00:48:27,159 --> 00:48:30,000
has on the show, hook line and sinker, and he

790
00:48:30,079 --> 00:48:34,280
does exactly zero research for anything prior to having people on,

791
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,559
and he picks the things that he chooses to believe

792
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,239
exclusively based on vibes. In my opinion, he uses the

793
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,920
rule of cool to decide what to believe about the

794
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:49,039
world like and reality, which I find disconcerting. And this

795
00:48:49,159 --> 00:48:51,760
kind of stuff has consequences. I'm sure you know that

796
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,760
Graham Hannacock was on Joe Rogan's show a while background Hancock,

797
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,159
he's a big Atlantis guy, you know, believes that these

798
00:48:59,199 --> 00:49:03,480
ancient civilists had this technology that's just incomprehensible to today,

799
00:49:03,519 --> 00:49:06,599
and it's been lost to us that civilization extends far

800
00:49:06,639 --> 00:49:10,400
deeper into the past than what legitimate archaeology seems to suggest.

801
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:12,920
And he had a debate with a friend of mine,

802
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,480
Flint Nibble on Joe Rogan a couple of months ago

803
00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:18,119
quh like a year ago now, and Flint absolutely curbs

804
00:49:18,119 --> 00:49:21,679
domed Graham, right because Flint is an actual archaeologist and

805
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,320
he does this work every day, and he was nice

806
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,320
about it, right, Like Flint was not rude or dismissive

807
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,960
or whatever, Like he entertained everything that that Handcock had

808
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,679
to say, but you know, he'd put him down. And

809
00:49:34,119 --> 00:49:37,320
Joe Rogan's audience even recognized that this went completely in

810
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,480
Flint's favor. So in response to this, Joe Rogan the

811
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,199
you know, less amicable of Joe Rogan's fans, and then

812
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,239
all of Graham Hancock's fans, which I don't know if

813
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,719
you know this, but the ancient Aliens, the Atlantis, the

814
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,559
race realist guys, those folks that fandom if you will,

815
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,840
they're absolutely relentless, like they will ruin your life if

816
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,440
they can, using social media doc saying like everything. So

817
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,199
they he did like a targeted harassment campaign against Flint

818
00:50:02,199 --> 00:50:05,079
that carries on to this day and was exacerbated by

819
00:50:05,079 --> 00:50:07,679
the fact that Joe, because he didn't like the idea

820
00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:10,159
of that Atlantis not being real, decided to have Graham

821
00:50:10,199 --> 00:50:14,199
Hancock back on the show, not invite Flint dibble and

822
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:18,360
basically reignite and call Flint a liar on the show

823
00:50:18,599 --> 00:50:20,559
in so many words, with he's not even there to

824
00:50:20,679 --> 00:50:22,800
defend himself. Right, first of all, he's not lying, but

825
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:24,719
second of all, he's not even there to defend himself.

826
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,039
It is really a poor showing in my opinion, especially

827
00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:30,199
for somebody like Joe Rogan, who stands as if he's

828
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,079
like this, this sort of beacon of like I'm an everyman.

829
00:50:32,159 --> 00:50:33,719
You know, everybody gets to have a voice.

830
00:50:34,159 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 11: And it rubs me the wrong way that the guy

831
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:38,920
that you like lost the debate and so you have

832
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,440
a rematch, but there's only one of the two parties there.

833
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,320
I don't like that hashtag Joe Rogan just wants to

834
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:50,239
have conversations doesn't work for me. It's interesting me either, Right,

835
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,239
A conversation usually has more than one person, and usually

836
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:55,519
you're having a conversation. He likes to say that he

837
00:50:55,559 --> 00:50:58,119
has these conversations with people who disagree with him, and

838
00:50:58,159 --> 00:51:00,159
you know, moving back to the smell, Gibson thing he

839
00:51:00,159 --> 00:51:02,360
does disagree with mal like. To his credit, I have

840
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,039
seen Joe Rogan stand up for what he believes in

841
00:51:06,039 --> 00:51:09,320
in opposition to his opponent on the show twice. Once

842
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,079
was with Tucker Carlson when Tucker Carlson evolution was fake,

843
00:51:12,599 --> 00:51:15,119
and once was with Mel Gibson when Mel Gibson says

844
00:51:15,159 --> 00:51:17,599
evolution is fake. So we'll give him a single point

845
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,719
for that, but that's not going to be enough for

846
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:22,639
me to overturn the rest of the damage that he's

847
00:51:22,679 --> 00:51:26,119
done to this. I'll say it to the scientific literacy

848
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:27,000
of this nation.

849
00:51:27,559 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 10: I like, I do believe Seth that that we've reached

850
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,480
a point where it's like, you know, there's an old

851
00:51:32,559 --> 00:51:36,039
joke twenty thirty years ago or whatever where people are like, yeah,

852
00:51:36,039 --> 00:51:38,400
we're we're discussing climate change, right, we have a PhD

853
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,800
scientist here, and then we also have like cousin Joe

854
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,480
from down the road, and we're going to give them

855
00:51:42,519 --> 00:51:45,000
equal time. And it's like that was the joke and

856
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,679
that they're using that as the rubric for how to

857
00:51:47,679 --> 00:51:51,440
have these conversations now on places like Fox and places

858
00:51:51,559 --> 00:51:55,159
like Joe Rogan, who had Karence Howard the guy who

859
00:51:55,199 --> 00:52:00,280
says one times one is two multiple times on the show.

860
00:52:00,559 --> 00:52:02,199
He's been on there more than once.

861
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,519
Speaker 2: Like the actor Tarren Toward say that he had some

862
00:52:05,559 --> 00:52:08,039
sort of a like magical brain power and he could

863
00:52:08,079 --> 00:52:10,239
like move objects and shit, I mean the guy.

864
00:52:10,159 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 10: Is just the guy is bananas, man. I mean he yeah,

865
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,960
he thinks that he started being conscious in his mother's womb.

866
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:18,519
The guy's office rocker.

867
00:52:19,039 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 2: But you say that Joe Rogan pushes back, and I agree,

868
00:52:23,199 --> 00:52:25,920
But he pushes back in the way where he's like, wow,

869
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,000
well what about But I didn't hear a lot of conviction.

870
00:52:30,519 --> 00:52:34,119
You say that Rogan, to be fair, is actually saying, nah,

871
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,320
that this may not be true, and we need to

872
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,760
give him props for that, you think, I mean, props

873
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:40,239
may not be the word, Erica.

874
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,119
Speaker 10: Really, we can give him props for it in the

875
00:52:43,199 --> 00:52:47,159
same way that we could give gosh, like, let's pick

876
00:52:47,199 --> 00:52:50,360
someone like comically evil just to contrast it, right, Well,

877
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:51,480
you can give him props for that in the same

878
00:52:51,519 --> 00:52:53,599
way that you could give Hitler props for being an

879
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:55,679
animal lover. You know, he loved dogs who sweep to

880
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:57,719
his dogs. It's like, yeah, that's great, but you're also

881
00:52:57,719 --> 00:52:59,639
doing all this other really bad stuff. I am not

882
00:52:59,679 --> 00:53:01,679
in any way saying that this is on that same

883
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,159
level or even in the same stratosphere. But what I

884
00:53:04,199 --> 00:53:06,440
am saying is Brugen has done a lot of He's

885
00:53:06,440 --> 00:53:09,000
had a lot of looney opinions, and he's had a

886
00:53:09,039 --> 00:53:10,760
lot of bad opinions, and he's let a lot of

887
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:12,559
people who do not know what they're talking about kind

888
00:53:12,559 --> 00:53:16,000
of steamroll them on the show, pushing back one time

889
00:53:16,159 --> 00:53:17,960
out of all of those other times. And as you said,

890
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,199
it's not even really a pushback, it's more like incredulous.

891
00:53:21,559 --> 00:53:23,960
You really don't think evolution is really.

892
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:26,199
Speaker 2: You know, which, no, I look forward to the Graham

893
00:53:26,199 --> 00:53:30,840
Hancock fans saying Erica says that Joe Rogan is like Hitler.

894
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 10: I enjoy them that I'm sure that's going to happen,

895
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,599
which in no way do I think that that is

896
00:53:37,639 --> 00:53:39,400
even a little bit of the case. That's why I said,

897
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,400
comically juxtaposed that we won't care though Graham Hancock fans

898
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,519
are reasonilar to the Robert Sepper fans, which is to

899
00:53:44,519 --> 00:53:46,800
say that they won't listen to what I'm saying. They'll

900
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,039
be like, well, she's a woman, and then they like

901
00:53:49,039 --> 00:53:51,519
to say that I'm Jewish. I'm not Jewish, but they

902
00:53:51,559 --> 00:53:54,280
will say that I'm Jewish, and for those two reasons,

903
00:53:54,599 --> 00:53:55,440
I can't be trusted.

904
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 2: That fits right into the Mel Gibson thing. He's not

905
00:53:58,039 --> 00:54:01,559
a huge fan of the Jewish. Apparently either history is

906
00:54:01,599 --> 00:54:04,440
given any indication. So before I get back to playing

907
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:10,039
some more, Mel, the fake jawbone thing was a real hoax.

908
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,280
This is an example of somebody who was just lying.

909
00:54:14,079 --> 00:54:15,199
Is that correct?

910
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 10: Yeah, let's dissect this. I'll be as brief as I

911
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:22,800
can be. So in the early nineteen hundreds, when human

912
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:26,440
evolution was really coming into full swing, not even full swing,

913
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,079
that's not even the way it was in its burgeoning right, Like,

914
00:54:29,119 --> 00:54:32,239
people were just beginning to start to investigate paleontology, and

915
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,719
in fact, you know, prior to this, Darwin lamented and

916
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,280
on the Origin of Species that the fossil record was

917
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,599
just remarkably incomplete, and the reason for this was because

918
00:54:40,599 --> 00:54:42,840
paleontology wasn't a thing yet. Darwin would live to see

919
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:46,079
the discovery of archaeopterics and Neanderthals, which was great and

920
00:54:46,199 --> 00:54:48,320
validated his hypothesis. He got to see that and he

921
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,280
was like, you know, check. That's awesome. But compared to

922
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,039
where we were in the nineteen hundreds we had when

923
00:54:55,079 --> 00:54:58,039
Piltdown was discovered, we had about I think it was

924
00:54:58,079 --> 00:55:02,000
like three maybe four hominine we have over twenty five

925
00:55:02,159 --> 00:55:05,880
now if you're being strict. So there's a pretty big

926
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,360
difference between where we were at paleontologically at that time.

927
00:55:09,639 --> 00:55:13,280
So this was proposed by Charles Dawson, not Darwin, but Dawson.

928
00:55:13,639 --> 00:55:17,119
He proposes Piltdown Man as this proof that humans evolved

929
00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:19,920
in Britain, right. He says he discovered it in the UK,

930
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,840
and it's a human skull. It looks it's got some

931
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,719
primitive aspects to it, you know, large canine teeth, kind

932
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:28,239
of prognaphic like things of that nature. And at the

933
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:30,719
time people were like, oh okay, like yeah, this, I

934
00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:32,920
guess this checks out kind of and they called the

935
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,119
Piltdown Man. The Piltown Man would be shown to be

936
00:55:36,159 --> 00:55:38,480
a hoax on the part of Charles Dawson in the

937
00:55:38,559 --> 00:55:41,960
nineteen forties, so about thirty years later. And part of

938
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,719
what made that come to light was that several people

939
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:48,519
were suspicious of it from day one. And the reason

940
00:55:48,519 --> 00:55:51,199
for this was very simple. When the Pilton Man was discovered,

941
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:53,719
people immediately flocked to the area where it was found

942
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,800
quote unquote found, and they searched there for their entire

943
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,400
lives and found nothing else, not even a tooth. At

944
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,719
that same time, folks like Eugene Dubois had triggered paleoanthropology

945
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:07,320
being done in Indonesia. Raymond Dart was down in South

946
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,400
Africa and people just kept pulling up hominin bone after

947
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,719
hominin bone after hominin bone, and they started to find

948
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,119
them in ways that was contrasting to what we saw

949
00:56:16,159 --> 00:56:18,239
with Piltdown. Right, So Philton was supposed to be this

950
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:22,320
early hominin, and they're discovering Australopithecus africanus in South Africa

951
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,039
in the form of Raymond Dart, and he's the one

952
00:56:24,079 --> 00:56:26,320
who sort of named it. And it's got a small

953
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,480
brain but like human like teeth, and it's clearly walking

954
00:56:29,519 --> 00:56:32,079
on two feet, whereas pilt Down looked like the opposite.

955
00:56:32,079 --> 00:56:33,639
It looked like it had a big brain but was

956
00:56:33,679 --> 00:56:35,519
probably like a knuckle walker or whatever. That was what

957
00:56:35,639 --> 00:56:38,679
was proposed that big brains evolved first. In reality, we

958
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:42,360
know by pedalism evolved first. So anyways, in the nineteen forties,

959
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,440
paleion anthropologists finally get to look a piltdown Man right,

960
00:56:45,519 --> 00:56:47,960
Like they actually get to get it from the folks

961
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,239
who were studying it and get a better look at it,

962
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,519
and they're like, yeah, this is an orangutan jaw and

963
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:55,800
a human skull and chimpanzee teeth. Make to look as

964
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,280
if it's older than it is. So you hear that

965
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,800
and you're like, oh my God, like that doubt on

966
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:04,719
every single other fine in paleoanthropology, and the people who

967
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:08,440
found this hoax thought the same thing. So every single

968
00:57:08,519 --> 00:57:12,960
other find was ridiculously scrutinized to the same degree that

969
00:57:13,039 --> 00:57:19,079
Piltdown was. And everything one held water because the stratigraphy,

970
00:57:19,119 --> 00:57:22,239
in the teponomy and the morphology was all like put

971
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,440
under a microscope to see if this stuff really came

972
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:27,320
from where people said it was. And then there was

973
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,679
the little fact where we kept pulling them up out

974
00:57:29,679 --> 00:57:32,880
of the ground over and over and over again. So

975
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:37,920
Piltown Man is, to our knowledge, the only hoax in paleoanthropology,

976
00:57:38,239 --> 00:57:41,840
and it was perpetrated and successfully so for over two decades,

977
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:47,239
and then people found out. Anthropologists found out, not creationists,

978
00:57:47,239 --> 00:57:50,199
not layman, not people who dug down into the depths

979
00:57:50,239 --> 00:57:53,280
of the secret cabal of anthropology and discovered that they

980
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,679
were they were being lied to, right. It was other anthropologists,

981
00:57:56,719 --> 00:57:59,679
it was other anatomous, it was other biologists, other pealeontologists

982
00:57:59,679 --> 00:58:03,159
who this out. And that's science working as it should.

983
00:58:03,239 --> 00:58:05,199
And as I said earlier, if you want to point

984
00:58:05,199 --> 00:58:07,079
to a hoax and say that in validates a field,

985
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,679
all of paleontology is gone. The amount of dinosaur hoaxes

986
00:58:10,719 --> 00:58:13,840
that have existed, the amount of hoaxes in physics, or

987
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:18,079
in archaeology or in biblical antiquity, as I said earlier,

988
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:20,840
is going to invalidate everything, because since the dawn of time,

989
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:24,840
people have tried to use fakes to elevate their status.

990
00:58:25,239 --> 00:58:27,199
The nice thing about science is that it is quite

991
00:58:27,199 --> 00:58:31,519
literally structured to find those examples and beat those people

992
00:58:31,559 --> 00:58:33,880
down and out of academia so they can stop lying

993
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,480
to people. So now we come to what mel Gibson did.

994
00:58:37,159 --> 00:58:40,760
Mel Gibson references the piltdown, but he calls it something

995
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:43,800
that is completely different. He doesn't get the hoax right.

996
00:58:44,159 --> 00:58:46,360
He says that zinganthropists was hoaxed.

997
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:46,679
Speaker 9: Seth.

998
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 10: This is a completely different thing that was not a hoax,

999
00:58:50,039 --> 00:58:53,480
that is a legitimate hominin that still stands to this day,

1000
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:57,519
of which we have multiple specimens of it. So the

1001
00:58:57,559 --> 00:59:00,960
way this went down is that Leaky's right, famous paleothropologist

1002
00:59:01,679 --> 00:59:04,880
Mary and Lewis were in Tanzania, right They're doing their

1003
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,519
work at old of I Gorge, really famous site, and

1004
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,960
they discovered some previous inklings that there were maybe hominins there.

1005
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,599
This was back in the nineteen forties, nineteen fifties, nineteen

1006
00:59:14,639 --> 00:59:16,440
sixties that they did a lot of this work there.

1007
00:59:16,679 --> 00:59:19,519
So one morning Lewis's is feeling sick, so Mary goes

1008
00:59:19,519 --> 00:59:21,280
out there and they're searching around and that's when they

1009
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:25,280
discover this hominin skull a cranium and they look at it.

1010
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:28,199
It's the first primitive looking hominin at that site, and

1011
00:59:28,239 --> 00:59:31,280
they're like, well, there's tools at this site and this

1012
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,360
hominin is at this site, so I guess this hominin

1013
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:35,360
must have made these tools, right, and it's one of

1014
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,440
our first toolmakers. They call it xinganthropists. But very shortly

1015
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:42,559
afterwards they discover Homo habilists at this same site. And

1016
00:59:42,639 --> 00:59:45,800
the contrast here is really important because zinganthropists has a

1017
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,039
small brain and big teeth, And when they first pulled

1018
00:59:48,039 --> 00:59:49,960
it up, everybody was like, do we really think that

1019
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:52,719
an ape with a brain this small was capable of

1020
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,639
making these types of tools? That was the question. They

1021
00:59:55,639 --> 00:59:58,519
were being scientists and saying is that possible? And then

1022
00:59:58,519 --> 01:00:02,320
they discover Homo habilists afterwards, same field season, if memory

1023
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:04,719
serves it might have been around that same time, within

1024
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:07,079
like a year or something. They pull up Homo habilist,

1025
01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:10,599
much bigger brain, much more advanced teeth, and they're like, okay,

1026
01:00:10,599 --> 01:00:12,400
well we have two hominins at this site, one with

1027
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:14,119
a big brain, one with a small The bigger one

1028
01:00:14,159 --> 01:00:17,840
probably made the tools, and so the toolmaker's identity changed

1029
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:22,000
from being xinganthropists to being Homo habalyus. Right, so being

1030
01:00:22,159 --> 01:00:27,239
a member of our genus and xinganthropists eventually would become paranthropists.

1031
01:00:27,559 --> 01:00:30,920
So Ginganthipis is a defunct name. It's known as paranthropists

1032
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:34,039
now because of ic Zen rules. So what mel Gibson

1033
01:00:34,079 --> 01:00:38,039
did is he took regular science operating as it normally does,

1034
01:00:38,159 --> 01:00:41,360
where you have a question and you discover an answer

1035
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:46,360
to it, and he mistook that example for a separate

1036
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:50,800
time where science was also working as it should. Piltdown

1037
01:00:51,039 --> 01:00:54,719
was like twenty years before even in Gingentthrapis and Paranthrapis

1038
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:56,760
and this whole thing at old of I even happened.

1039
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,719
He swapped them around, doesn't even know that that's what

1040
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,800
he did. Thinks that the situation with the Zindra turned

1041
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:05,280
out to be a hoax when it demonstrably didn't. This

1042
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,719
is a hominin that still exists to this day that

1043
01:01:08,119 --> 01:01:10,679
we still teach in class. It has a different name, right,

1044
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:15,559
But he just completely botches the entire story. Now, Rogan's

1045
01:01:15,599 --> 01:01:18,760
not off the hook because he says Australia pithecus in

1046
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,599
this conversation and can't remember what home on the letty is.

1047
01:01:21,679 --> 01:01:24,199
Even though this guy is supposed to be interested in

1048
01:01:24,199 --> 01:01:26,800
this subject, he can't even get the basics right. So

1049
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,559
you've got two Yahoo's here discussing a topic that they

1050
01:01:29,559 --> 01:01:32,719
have no business discussing. And I don't say no business

1051
01:01:32,719 --> 01:01:35,760
discussing because they're not experts. I say no business discussing

1052
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:37,480
because they didn't even bother to do a Google search

1053
01:01:37,519 --> 01:01:38,760
before having this chat.

1054
01:01:39,039 --> 01:01:41,039
Speaker 2: Maybe it was one of the early hominins that was

1055
01:01:41,119 --> 01:01:43,639
under the shouter of turn you know that was lying

1056
01:01:43,679 --> 01:01:44,280
under there.

1057
01:01:44,119 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 10: Too, or in the ark of the Covenant.

1058
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 2: I think you could be the Covenant. Yeah, well, you

1059
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:51,400
and I could talk for an hour about a lot

1060
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:53,159
of this stuff, but I wanted to camp out on

1061
01:01:53,519 --> 01:01:56,639
mel Gibson's specific claim about the fake and how somehow

1062
01:01:56,679 --> 01:02:01,199
that disproves all of paleontology and evolutionary biology and human

1063
01:02:01,239 --> 01:02:04,440
ancestry and everything else. You know, the great philosopher, scientists,

1064
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:08,679
the great thinker, mel Gibson is parading around the media

1065
01:02:08,719 --> 01:02:12,280
beyond Rogan all of these high profile platforms.

1066
01:02:12,519 --> 01:02:15,639
Speaker 10: It's so unbelievably frustrating. And the part that really gets

1067
01:02:15,719 --> 01:02:19,519
me is that in this clip, mel Gibson says something

1068
01:02:19,519 --> 01:02:22,480
along the lines of like, yeah, like, I'm not educated

1069
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:25,119
in this, I'm not well versed in this. I haven't

1070
01:02:25,159 --> 01:02:27,840
looked into it, and he straight up says, but I

1071
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:30,880
just kind of feel I just kind of feel like

1072
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:31,400
it's Lee.

1073
01:02:31,519 --> 01:02:34,599
Speaker 2: Can explain it, Erica, you know, I just I just

1074
01:02:34,679 --> 01:02:37,920
kind of know in my heart it feels like the kind.

1075
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:40,920
Speaker 10: Of thing that would be satirized one hundred years ago

1076
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:43,159
in a book like how on Earth are we at

1077
01:02:43,159 --> 01:02:46,239
this point? And these people are as you said this

1078
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:48,239
isn't a conversation that someone's having down.

1079
01:02:48,119 --> 01:02:48,559
Speaker 5: At the bar.

1080
01:02:49,199 --> 01:02:51,280
Speaker 10: That's fine, you're allowed to ask questions, you're allowed to

1081
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:53,719
chat about this. But when we elevate them to the

1082
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,519
same level as experts in a field, who are experts

1083
01:02:56,519 --> 01:02:59,599
for a reason, right we can't all be experts in everything.

1084
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:01,920
That's one of the wonders of human society is that

1085
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,000
we pick roles for people to have, and we all

1086
01:03:04,039 --> 01:03:06,559
become experts in our given area, and then we rely

1087
01:03:06,639 --> 01:03:09,719
on the expertise of others in areas that were not experts. Rightly,

1088
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:11,719
I don't know anything about my car, which is why

1089
01:03:11,719 --> 01:03:14,000
I take it to a mechanic. But it's like when

1090
01:03:14,039 --> 01:03:17,199
you're treating people who have no business talking about the

1091
01:03:17,239 --> 01:03:21,360
subject at the same level as an expert. Boy, we're

1092
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:22,559
hadn't got a dark path?

1093
01:03:23,079 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 2: Well. I spoke to an astrophysicist friend of mine, doctor

1094
01:03:26,079 --> 01:03:30,199
Dan Bancheldor, about multiverse theory, and in my alternate universe,

1095
01:03:30,599 --> 01:03:34,159
I would air drop you into the Rogan studio at

1096
01:03:34,199 --> 01:03:36,960
the moment of that conversation, Erica, I would pay one

1097
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:39,360
thousand dollars to see that go down.

1098
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:42,719
Speaker 10: I would love so much. I would love more than

1099
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:45,199
anything if I had the opportunity to go into a rogan,

1100
01:03:45,239 --> 01:03:47,239
I would do it and I would be like, what

1101
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:49,119
are I would level with him, you know, I would

1102
01:03:49,119 --> 01:03:51,960
be like, what are you doing? You know you're your treat?

1103
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like this, you would and I would be

1104
01:03:56,119 --> 01:04:00,280
there for it. We would kickstart that, we'd fundraise, we

1105
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,599
could get you, you know, because they do that right.

1106
01:04:02,639 --> 01:04:05,719
I'll pay you a million dollars if you'll sit down

1107
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:10,440
with RFK junior doctor Peter Hotez, which is a whole

1108
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:15,039
other conversation. Okay. Our interaction is always a series of digressions, Erica,

1109
01:04:15,079 --> 01:04:17,880
And that's a good thing, except when I'm trying to

1110
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:19,920
focus on the subject and i just want to like

1111
01:04:20,039 --> 01:04:22,199
keep you for another three hours. But I'm going to

1112
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:23,519
let you go and I'm going to get back to

1113
01:04:23,719 --> 01:04:26,880
profiling the Gibson interview. You and I, I think are

1114
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:28,559
going to try to talk again, maybe in a few

1115
01:04:28,559 --> 01:04:32,320
weeks about the actual evolution of the human animal from

1116
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,559
earlier ancestors, because you did a speech a while back

1117
01:04:36,039 --> 01:04:38,599
kind of connecting those dots, because we always say, well,

1118
01:04:38,639 --> 01:04:42,360
you know, we evolved from lower primates, but we don't

1119
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:44,920
know how or why, and the creation is certainly don't

1120
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:46,440
know how or why. So I'm going to have you

1121
01:04:46,559 --> 01:04:47,559
spell it out for us.

1122
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 10: I'd love that. I'd love to do like a you know,

1123
01:04:50,679 --> 01:04:52,159
structured in a way that it's like, all right, if

1124
01:04:52,199 --> 01:04:55,519
you watch this show, you will understand the basics. Like

1125
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:57,840
if you watch this show, you will walk away and

1126
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:01,840
you will know at least the basics of this subject,

1127
01:05:02,199 --> 01:05:05,599
which is my dream is that everybody would know the basics.

1128
01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 2: Oh, I send an email out to Mel Gibson's people,

1129
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:10,480
maybe he'll join us. Listen in they're saying, hey, here's

1130
01:05:10,519 --> 01:05:14,320
a link. Mail, here's a link Erica, You're amazing. Thanks

1131
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:16,760
for a jumping out of your day to humor me

1132
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:17,320
on mail.

1133
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:19,880
Speaker 10: Okay, it's always my pleasure to talk about this kind

1134
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:22,239
of stuff. Set, thanks for having me in.

1135
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:24,119
Speaker 2: Just second, I'm going to come back to that eight

1136
01:05:24,199 --> 01:05:28,920
thousand year number for the age of humankind in relation

1137
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:33,679
to a fascinating article about something archaeologists dug up in Germany.

1138
01:05:34,079 --> 01:05:43,119
We continue with more on Mel next. Okay, we're talking

1139
01:05:43,159 --> 01:05:49,239
about Mel Gibson and all kinds of crazy claims, specifically here.

1140
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:53,400
Before I get into the rest, he had referenced his

1141
01:05:53,719 --> 01:05:56,960
perspective on the age of human kind.

1142
01:05:57,480 --> 01:05:59,639
Speaker 9: But you do think that human beings were created?

1143
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 2: Thank god, I do.

1144
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:02,559
Speaker 9: When do you think that happened?

1145
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 8: When? Probably and not that long ago? Really? No, not

1146
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:09,440
really what do you mean?

1147
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:10,519
Speaker 9: But not that long ago?

1148
01:06:11,199 --> 01:06:13,119
Speaker 4: Probably only but eight thousand years ago?

1149
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:13,719
Speaker 9: Really?

1150
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 8: Yeah?

1151
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:20,840
Speaker 2: Hey, Mel, did you hear about those German archaeologists who

1152
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:26,800
unearthed something that was dated accurately dated to twenty eight

1153
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:31,159
thousand years ago, like more than three times longer than

1154
01:06:31,199 --> 01:06:33,719
what you say the oldest age of human beings might be.

1155
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:37,960
Did you read about this because they unearthed an ancient

1156
01:06:39,039 --> 01:06:47,280
sex toy. They found a highly polished silt stone dildo

1157
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:52,000
accurately dated to twenty eight thousand years Now, if human

1158
01:06:52,039 --> 01:07:02,760
beings weren't around to construct, human beings didn't exist to

1159
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:11,360
fashion and implement a stone schlong, who did it? What

1160
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:17,159
is it? Orangutans but the silver bag, gorilla spider monkeys.

1161
01:07:17,599 --> 01:07:20,760
Who in the world is making sex toys if it's

1162
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:24,679
not human beings who were around twenty eight thousand years ago.

1163
01:07:24,679 --> 01:07:27,280
I just want to ask Mal. You know you might

1164
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:33,119
dobble check your eight thousand year number, Okay, you know

1165
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:35,840
they were going to talk about COVID nineteen and all

1166
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:38,920
of the conspiracy theories. They are just going after doctor

1167
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:43,280
Anthony Fauci. He certainly made some misstatements and mistakes, but

1168
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:44,880
if you look at the whole of his life, how

1169
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:47,800
in the world does doctor Anthony Fauci become the villain

1170
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:52,400
in their story? And yet he is. But they love ivermectin,

1171
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:57,800
the anti parasite medication commonly used in animals that was

1172
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:00,719
said to be a great prevention and or treatment for

1173
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:04,679
COVID during the height of the pandemic. Joe Rogan took it,

1174
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:09,920
but so many people criticized him for popularizing it.

1175
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 4: I mean I remember, you know, I think they were

1176
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:15,000
giving you a grilling once for taking horse worm medicine.

1177
01:08:15,119 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 9: Yeah. Funny, which, yeah, funny how that works?

1178
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:19,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, funny, how that works? Funny? How funny? How that

1179
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:21,000
does work? Yeah.

1180
01:08:21,039 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 9: What's really funny is how that was that a part

1181
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:29,479
of the demise of mainstream media because people were like, well,

1182
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:31,520
this is crazy, this doesn't make it, are you guys

1183
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:33,840
really the news like what is this? Yes, I know

1184
01:08:34,399 --> 01:08:35,159
he seemed to be.

1185
01:08:35,119 --> 01:08:40,039
Speaker 8: They seem to be complicit with a and you know,

1186
01:08:40,119 --> 01:08:42,039
you think, well why why?

1187
01:08:42,199 --> 01:08:44,279
Speaker 9: Because of money? I think this is what we were

1188
01:08:44,279 --> 01:08:46,640
talking about before that there is good and evil, and

1189
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:50,279
sometimes it manifests itself in a very clear and obvious way.

1190
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:51,800
Speaker 8: And I think that's what that was.

1191
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:55,600
Speaker 9: That was evil, that was putting people's lives second and

1192
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:56,920
putting money first.

1193
01:08:57,239 --> 01:08:59,359
Speaker 8: Well, I don't know why I found you still walking around?

1194
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:02,359
Speaker 9: How is that guy still walking around? If just people

1195
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:04,960
understand the history of the AIDS crisis and what that

1196
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:05,439
guy did.

1197
01:09:06,319 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 2: Doctor Anthony Fauci, he was there front and center during

1198
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:15,159
the AIDS explosion in the nineteen eighties. People were dying,

1199
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:18,760
Nobody knew what was going on. It was a political

1200
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:23,079
nightmare as everybody was pointing and blaming at homosexuals, etc.

1201
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:28,399
Anthony Fauci, the virologist, the expert in his field, teaming

1202
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:32,199
up with other virologists and immunologists over the course of

1203
01:09:32,319 --> 01:09:36,720
fifteen years to develop a prevention to save who knows,

1204
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:41,520
I mean countless lives. It was Fauci who established multiple

1205
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:45,640
HIV clinical trial networks, and for those who couldn't get

1206
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:48,640
into the clinical trials, he made a work around so

1207
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:53,119
that other people infected with AIDS could participate in experimental

1208
01:09:53,159 --> 01:09:57,199
treatments that were deemed safe enough to try Fauci made

1209
01:09:57,279 --> 01:10:02,399
that happen after an Admittedly you start with the LGBT community.

1210
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,520
Fauci opened his ears, he opened his mind, and then

1211
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:10,520
he opened his doors to AIDS activists, involving them in

1212
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:16,079
the processes for creating better treatments, more humane treatments, and

1213
01:10:16,159 --> 01:10:19,239
for better messaging to the country and the rest of

1214
01:10:19,279 --> 01:10:24,039
the world about HIV. Imperfect, Yes, but he was an

1215
01:10:24,159 --> 01:10:29,960
indispensable figure in treating and preventing HIV and AIDS, and

1216
01:10:30,039 --> 01:10:33,039
he will be remembered in our history books as a

1217
01:10:33,079 --> 01:10:36,640
man who helped us save millions of lives. But oh no,

1218
01:10:37,359 --> 01:10:40,920
not on Rogan's podcast, not with mel Gibson. No, I

1219
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:43,199
can't believe that guy's still walking around.

1220
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 9: There's more information now available to people instantaneously than ever before.

1221
01:10:47,319 --> 01:10:49,520
You look it up on your phone instantly know, Oh,

1222
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:51,840
I've rememted. And the guy who created it won the Nobel.

1223
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 8: Prizec Yeah twenty fourteen, yeah.

1224
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 9: Fifteen, Yeah, for use in human beings. Yeah, So what

1225
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:57,439
the fuck is going on?

1226
01:10:57,640 --> 01:10:58,680
Speaker 8: Yeah?

1227
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:01,159
Speaker 9: Like, how who's running this thing?

1228
01:11:01,279 --> 01:11:03,680
Speaker 4: And it's harmless and it wasn't made for horses, it

1229
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:06,680
was made for people, and then they used it for horses, right, right.

1230
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,319
Speaker 9: Well, it's like saying PENICILLINUS for horses because they use

1231
01:11:09,399 --> 01:11:11,479
that on horses too, Like that's stupid.

1232
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:13,039
Speaker 8: They told me it was from moldy bread.

1233
01:11:14,039 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 9: That's where it was from.

1234
01:11:15,039 --> 01:11:20,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Okay. Mister Gibson and mister Rogan, who I

1235
01:11:20,119 --> 01:11:24,159
am increasingly suspicious might be the same person and they

1236
01:11:24,199 --> 01:11:27,319
were just split in a lab decades ago and went

1237
01:11:27,359 --> 01:11:30,199
off to live separate lives and now have converged on

1238
01:11:30,279 --> 01:11:35,119
the Joe Rogan experience. Ivermectin has been around for decades.

1239
01:11:35,199 --> 01:11:41,439
It was originally created to treat animals. It wasn't developed

1240
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:45,439
for use in humans and then transferred to animals. In

1241
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:49,399
twenty fifteen, William C. Campbell won the Nope Belt Prize

1242
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:54,840
in Physiology or Medicine for a version of ivermectin that

1243
01:11:54,960 --> 01:12:01,760
specifically treats infection caused by roundworm parasites. The derivative of

1244
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:08,520
avermectin has dramatically lowered the instances of river blindness, elephantiasis,

1245
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:14,520
and other parasitic diseases. Campbell did not win the Nobel

1246
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:19,039
Prize because ivermectin was used to treat viruses. It is

1247
01:12:19,079 --> 01:12:24,479
an anti parasitic. The ivermectin used in humans is a

1248
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:31,199
different formulation customized for humans. Mel Gibson Joe Rogan big

1249
01:12:31,239 --> 01:12:37,319
fans of RFK Junior, the brainworm infected anti vaxer, the

1250
01:12:37,399 --> 01:12:41,199
guy on record on video saying that no vaccine has

1251
01:12:41,239 --> 01:12:44,960
ever been proven to be effective. This is the guy

1252
01:12:45,199 --> 01:12:48,760
who has said in the past that the COVID virus

1253
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:54,359
was bioengineered to target specific Jewish people and the Chinese,

1254
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:58,840
and that lockdown mandates during the pandemic were the equivalent

1255
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:02,359
of Nazi German. By the way, of course, RFK Junior

1256
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:06,199
Donald Trump's pick to lead the Department of Health and

1257
01:13:06,319 --> 01:13:10,760
Human Services. Oh, Mel Gibson and Joe Rogan love them some.

1258
01:13:11,039 --> 01:13:13,880
RFK Junior and his book.

1259
01:13:14,159 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 4: It's even with Rfk's book. And he's an amazing guy.

1260
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:20,319
People say, oh, he's kooky, he's crazy. He's not crazy.

1261
01:13:20,319 --> 01:13:20,600
Speaker 2: He's not.

1262
01:13:21,279 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 4: He's one of the most erudite, you know. They say

1263
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:25,479
he's an anti vaxxer.

1264
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 9: He's not.

1265
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:29,720
Speaker 4: He's not like he's a very shrewd. He's never lost

1266
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:32,640
a case. I don't think when he brings something to suit,

1267
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,880
I don't think he's ever been defeated. But that book

1268
01:13:36,239 --> 01:13:38,880
is not just him it's him in about a thousand

1269
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:44,520
highly qualified scientists and physicians commenting on the whole situation.

1270
01:13:44,680 --> 01:13:47,439
So when you read it, it's a pretty convincing document.

1271
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:52,560
Speaker 2: Perhaps mister Gibson might be equally, if not more impressed,

1272
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:55,359
if he had read the recent headline about seventy seven

1273
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:59,399
no Bel laureates who officially signed the letter urging the

1274
01:13:59,399 --> 01:14:03,560
Senate to projecked RFK Junior as the nominee for Health

1275
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:09,560
and Human Services Secretary. Top tier elite scientists, prize winners

1276
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:12,760
in the fields of medicine, chemistry, physics, and economics have

1277
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:15,319
come together and say that he is unfit and he

1278
01:14:15,359 --> 01:14:19,720
would put people in jeopardy, rightly saying, maybe the guy

1279
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:24,760
who lies about vaccines causing autism shouldn't be put in

1280
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:29,000
charge of health. I do not see mel Gibson invoking

1281
01:14:29,199 --> 01:14:34,000
these guys. And there's a mention of hydroxy chloroquin in

1282
01:14:34,079 --> 01:14:37,119
the interview al spare you they just sort of pepper

1283
01:14:37,199 --> 01:14:39,840
that in there a little bit. By the way, hydroxy

1284
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:44,359
chloroquin was popularized by a paper that published in twenty twenty.

1285
01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:50,119
That paper has officially been retracted because of ethical concerns

1286
01:14:50,159 --> 01:14:54,880
and problems with methodology. This guy at the IHU who

1287
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:59,960
published the treatment paper about hydroxy chloroquin the anti malarial drug,

1288
01:15:00,199 --> 01:15:03,039
saying that it reduced the levels of virus in patients.

1289
01:15:03,319 --> 01:15:06,439
He only used a sample size of like thirty six

1290
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:10,840
patients and they had a very short peer review time.

1291
01:15:11,399 --> 01:15:14,479
He submitted his paper on the sixteenth of March twenty twenty.

1292
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:21,039
He published four days later. Subsequent testing was done in

1293
01:15:21,199 --> 01:15:27,399
other laboratories and oh lookie, no benefit was actually demonstrated.

1294
01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:31,279
So that paper about hydroxy chlora quinn being a treatment

1295
01:15:31,319 --> 01:15:35,720
for COVID is retracted. It's gone, it's debunked. It was

1296
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:41,800
and remains absolute bullshits. Will mel Gibson fans and Joe

1297
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:47,760
Rogan listeners actually find this out? I am not optimistic.

1298
01:15:49,399 --> 01:15:53,960
You get the idea. Mel Gibson is a mess and

1299
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:58,600
the culture that props mel up remains a mess. And

1300
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:01,439
I wanted to focus on that today. I watched the

1301
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:04,920
entire two and a half hour Rogan mel Gibson interviews

1302
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:07,720
so you don't have to, And I just brought the

1303
01:16:08,399 --> 01:16:13,039
soundbited goodies sound bit, the sound biteable. I brought the

1304
01:16:13,079 --> 01:16:16,880
goodies for you here, and I'm so glad you you

1305
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:20,199
stuck with me, have a wonderful week. We'll call it

1306
01:16:20,239 --> 01:16:21,920
a show. I'll see you back here next time.

1307
01:16:22,279 --> 01:16:25,840
Speaker 1: Follow the Thinking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter for a

1308
01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:29,479
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1309
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:33,199
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1310
01:16:33,239 --> 01:16:36,920
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1311
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:44,479
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