WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:05.000 You see something's going to happen? 2 00:00:06.360 --> 00:00:09.759 What? 3 00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:10.599 What's going to happen? 4 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:15.519 What? 5 00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:18.120 That's how I. 6 00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:30.920 Welcome to the old cult rejects. Today we're stepping into 7 00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:34.399 a question that sits right at the edge of belief 8 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:38.840 and experience. How do we know if magic is real? 9 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:42.359 And if it is, what does real even mean in 10 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:47.200 a world of psychology, folklore and bias. Our guest today, 11 00:00:47.479 --> 00:00:52.399 Tracy Nicholas works where practical folklore meets everyday practice, and 12 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:56.000 her book mind Over Magic, Making Magic in Everyday Life 13 00:00:56.079 --> 00:00:58.719 tries to do something a lot of occult books avoid. 14 00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:01.759 It doesn't just tell you what to do. It asks 15 00:01:02.079 --> 00:01:05.519 how do we actually decide what's true? What's a projection? 16 00:01:05.959 --> 00:01:09.680 What's pattern recognition? And what might be something stranger that 17 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:13.719 survives our skepticism. Quite brilliant, I would say, So we're 18 00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:18.400 going to talk about methods, mindset and meaning, placebo and belief, 19 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:24.760 story and ritual confirmation, bias and yes, transformation, and how 20 00:01:24.760 --> 00:01:27.840 to build a practice that doesn't collapse the moment you 21 00:01:28.000 --> 00:01:32.480 look at it too hard. Thank you everybody. And this 22 00:01:32.599 --> 00:01:37.359 is the Head Rejects and the head reject himself. Nick Cardinal, 23 00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:38.519 Electric Head. 24 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:42.680 Thank you, Thank you very much for that. Am I 25 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:47.040 love it. I love it such a professional. I'm gonna 26 00:01:47.079 --> 00:01:49.359 keep you. I'm gonna have you keep doing it. Please, 27 00:01:51.799 --> 00:01:55.760 I'll publish get in better ratings to stop it. Yeah, 28 00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:58.599 my four stars will go up to five now. Thanks. 29 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:02.480 But uh, you know, and all the complaints have nothing 30 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:03.079 to do with the quality. 31 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:05.680 It's always the productions. I guess, I guess it's right. 32 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:09.639 But thank you very much for that. And yes, I'm 33 00:02:09.719 --> 00:02:10.479 very excited. 34 00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:11.560 To have Tracy Nicholas on today. 35 00:02:12.400 --> 00:02:12.840 You know, I was. 36 00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:14.159 I was looking through as much as. 37 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:16.240 I could about the book and what's it entailed, and 38 00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:18.199 I think it's like really right up my alley, and. 39 00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:19.479 I think it will be for the rest of the 40 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:20.439 ocult rejects. 41 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:24.520 But yeah, called Electric Head or Neck from the Cold Rejects. 42 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:29.240 Definitely check us out. We're all old major platforms. We 43 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:32.919 do have a cult research Institute dot org and I 44 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:34.800 never push it really and I don't know why. I 45 00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:36.719 just feel stupid trying to sell stuff to people. But 46 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:39.199 do have T shirts if you're interested in getting any 47 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:40.840 T shirts from the Cult Rejects. We do have two 48 00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:42.520 of them. We have one with the skeleton and the 49 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:45.000 hands grossing and then the one that looks like. 50 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:47.199 The Birth of the Birth of Venus. 51 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:49.879 So yeah, we got those for sale. 52 00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:50.800 You can hit me up for that. 53 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:53.960 And yeah, this weekend we got a round table Plato 54 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:55.479 coming on magazine. 55 00:02:55.479 --> 00:02:57.759 Gonna be there for that for sure, hopefully maybe even marks. 56 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:02.319 And we got p d and Ike Biker both coming 57 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:04.520 on for that playtole roundtable, so you already know what's 58 00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:06.919 going to be a banger. And then we got David 59 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:12.560 Shoemaker this so check that out highly highly looking forward 60 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:16.719 to that. Yeah yeah it is yeah, big yeah, big 61 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:19.159 names and big topics man, for sure, for sure. Yeah, 62 00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:22.000 even David Shoemaker wanted even even ask can I talk 63 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:26.240 about the astrona gentleman and I've never had anybody on 64 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:27.280 the show I want to talk about that. 65 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:28.759 Yeah, let's go man. 66 00:03:29.039 --> 00:03:31.400 Yeah yeah, yeah, So it should be interesting because he 67 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:33.439 runs one, so you know he won't get loaded. 68 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:35.840 But uh, I'm sure I'm gonna shut up enough out 69 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:37.599 of me and Robbie Marx. Please let everybody know where 70 00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:39.879 they can find all your amazing work and your art. 71 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:43.719 Yes, it's good to see everybody today. I am Robbie 72 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:47.400 Marx or R Marx. I'm an artist. Illustrator and I 73 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:51.240 do a variety of research and writing as well. And 74 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:54.319 if anybody wants to check out my various works, you 75 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:56.680 can check out my link tree which is link tree 76 00:03:56.960 --> 00:04:02.199 r M A r X and that will up my metamindcast, 77 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:06.840 all my artwork everything. And uh yeah, I'm excited for 78 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:08.879 this today. Good to meet you, Tracy. 79 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:13.080 Thanks to be too, Thank you so much. Ronnie. 80 00:04:13.479 --> 00:04:16.120 Yeah, and oh Kaima, I don't think your mic is 81 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:21.879 working it so if you can see anything. 82 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:23.879 Now, I'm going to use my computer microphone perfect. 83 00:04:25.040 --> 00:04:27.279 I get this other thing figured out. It's brand new. 84 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:29.360 I got a brand new microphone figuring it out. 85 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:33.959 I'm not a tech wizard, can definitely. 86 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:35.199 So. 87 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:39.079 I do astrology and taro that is my specialty. 88 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:40.480 You can find me. 89 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:44.399 At Instagram at Kaiva Rose as well as Facebook, and 90 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:47.839 then I do post weekly astrology videos as well as 91 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:52.240 daily astrology videos on YouTube and Instagram. And then if 92 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:57.279 you're into fantasy fiction, I do write young adult novels. 93 00:04:57.399 --> 00:05:01.079 I have one series called Route Odyssey. It's it's adventurous 94 00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:02.040 and it's magical. 95 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:06.680 Thank you nice, thank you for making it. 96 00:05:06.839 --> 00:05:08.839 I always enjoy you being able to come on hopefully 97 00:05:08.839 --> 00:05:09.519 we'll see more of. 98 00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:14.399 You, and we've got Tracy Nicholas. Please let everybody know 99 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:16.879 whatever you want to plug, please let them know where 100 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:19.480 they can find all your stuff, your podcast, your book, everything. 101 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:21.040 Yeah. 102 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:23.519 I think that the best way to find me is 103 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:27.399 to go to my main website, which is folkloringlife dot com, 104 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:30.639 and uh, it'll give you links to to where you 105 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:34.040 can go buy the book, where you can uh you know, 106 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:38.160 find my podcasts, and where you can find my school 107 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:40.360 community and my substack. 108 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:41.920 So it's all in there. 109 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:45.079 It's it's like a big link tree, but I pay 110 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:47.519 a lot more for it, and I had to work 111 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:51.199 harder to set it up. So so yeah, and then 112 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:54.560 you'll find my book Mind Over Magic, which, as we 113 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:57.720 are streaming this is today is the release day. So 114 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:01.000 it's very exciting time for me right now. I can't 115 00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:03.839 believe that it took so long to get here, and 116 00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:06.000 like now it's like, oh no, I have so many 117 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:07.319 things I haven't gotten done yet. 118 00:06:07.800 --> 00:06:13.800 So oh well, congratulations that it's out today. 119 00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:15.720 Uh that's great. 120 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:17.519 I'm going to see if I could try to change 121 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:18.959 the thumbnails so I could at least have your. 122 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:21.240 Book on it. 123 00:06:21.600 --> 00:06:26.360 So but uh, thanks and please uh if you don't mind, 124 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:29.000 I ask, I askol gets this at the beginning. 125 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:31.800 They're into the occult, which seems to be every guest. Now, anyway, 126 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:34.560 how did how did you find yourself getting into this? 127 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:36.759 Like what was it that brought you into magic or 128 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:38.120 the occult or practicing. 129 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:43.040 I think that I've always kind of been interested in it, 130 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:47.120 And even as like a little kid, I was doing 131 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:50.800 things that now I would consider to be like magical practice, 132 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:53.800 but I wouldn't have called it that then. I remember 133 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:56.879 in like I didn't. I wasn't very athletic as a kid, 134 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.560 and so there was this there was woods around my 135 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:04.560 middle school, and so I would go at recess. I'd 136 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:06.720 go into the woods and there's a big rock and 137 00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:08.920 I would decorate it. And so I was like, that 138 00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:13.279 was really my first like nature alter. So it's always 139 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:15.759 been interesting to me. I've been interested in folklore my 140 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:21.959 whole life. I've been interested in magic, and so the book, 141 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:24.839 like getting to the book is really kind of a 142 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:29.040 culmination of the work that I've done in the past 143 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:34.560 forty years, both magically and in my mundane life as well. 144 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:38.639 And so and I worked in you know, corporate America 145 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:40.920 for a long time up until about ten years ago. 146 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:46.199 So yeah, it's just it always resonates with me and 147 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:49.920 I like having my life feel more magical, and so 148 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:53.680 as time goes on, I find myself investing in it 149 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:58.279 more and more with my time and my effort. So yeah, 150 00:07:58.319 --> 00:07:59.879 it's it's just always been an interest. 151 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:05.759 Awesome, And what made you decide to write this book? 152 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:08.839 Like what do you feel is in this book that 153 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:09.680 the public needs? 154 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:11.680 That's another ones out there. 155 00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:15.639 Well, I think that a lot of books that are 156 00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:18.439 talking about magic are telling you how to practice magic, 157 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:22.680 and they're telling you what it is like it there's 158 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:25.519 a lot of like spell recipe books, is the way 159 00:08:25.600 --> 00:08:27.600 I like to think about them. And so it's like, oh, 160 00:08:27.639 --> 00:08:30.199 here's a bunch of spells you can do, and some 161 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:33.000 of them are academic and they say, okay, you know, 162 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:36.720 here's what you know if you're going to study Kabbalah 163 00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:41.960 and ancient you know, esoteric kind of work like that. 164 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:44.759 And so those two things were out there, and what 165 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:47.000 I was seeing was like, we don't have a modern 166 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:50.919 look at why we believe what we believe, right, Like 167 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:55.120 why are these beliefs important to us? And why? Like 168 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:58.440 what what do we know? What can we prove today 169 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:01.559 that we would have consider to magical belief twenty or 170 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:04.480 thirty or fifty or one hundred years ago, right, because 171 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:07.879 the science moves quickly now, and so I think that 172 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:11.440 there are certain things that are treated as if they're 173 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:15.200 very like woo woo. But we've got some solid science, 174 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:18.799 We've got some research that shows that there are things 175 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:22.279 that are real. Now, there's a lot of pseudoscience, and 176 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:25.559 I think that, you know the problem with that is 177 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:29.320 it sort of muddies the water, and I try not 178 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:32.399 to go into any of the pseudoscience. I'm like, you know, 179 00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:36.159 if there's no solid science that we can say, yes, 180 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:40.039 this has been tested and peer tested. If we can't 181 00:09:40.120 --> 00:09:42.919 say that, I'm just going to sort of put back 182 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:47.240 on my folklorist hat and say, Okay, we can't prove it. 183 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:50.799 But as a folk lorest it doesn't matter to me 184 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:53.399 whether or not something is true. What matters to me 185 00:09:53.879 --> 00:09:57.120 is whether why people believe it what they believe right, 186 00:09:57.679 --> 00:10:01.720 And so you know, for example, like spirits and ghosts, right, 187 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:05.240 I do not believe that we can prove at this 188 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:08.960 point that spirits are real, right. And the reason I 189 00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:11.159 don't think we can prove that and we may someday 190 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:11.879 and that would be great. 191 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:12.480 I would love that. 192 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:16.639 The reason we can't prove it is because we don't 193 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:21.279 understand what consciousness is and what is a spirit except 194 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:25.120 for consciousness that has passed beyond death. Right, it's some 195 00:10:25.279 --> 00:10:29.519 sort of you know, it's your great uncle, or it's 196 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:32.799 you know, somebody who has had a traumatic event and 197 00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:34.080 they keep going back. 198 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:34.639 And reliving it. 199 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:34.879 Right. 200 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:38.279 But if we don't, we don't even understand, like how 201 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:41.759 we put people under for surgery, like we know it works, 202 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:44.559 we don't know the mechanism in the brain that makes 203 00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:47.360 it work like that. And so without being able to 204 00:10:47.399 --> 00:10:51.200 prove consciousness, we can't prove that consciousness lasts in some 205 00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:56.360 form beyond Now, what's interesting there is you know, you 206 00:10:56.440 --> 00:11:00.240 see it like sort of death related folklore and leaf 207 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:03.720 systems all over the world. Right, And of course that's 208 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:05.799 going to be because we tell stories about things that 209 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:08.879 are important to us, and so you know, death is 210 00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:11.559 important to us, and a lot of people have beliefs 211 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:16.440 that there is some sort of afterlife, there are spirits, 212 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:19.480 all of these kinds of things, and that seemed worldwide, 213 00:11:19.879 --> 00:11:22.720 and so that to me is interesting. It's a compelling 214 00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:26.679 case to me to look at it harder, to look 215 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:30.480 at the science behind it, harder, because so many people believe, 216 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:34.200 and so many people have had experiences, right, And I 217 00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:36.159 think once you do. 218 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:37.320 You know, we're all on a spectrum. 219 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:37.519 Right. 220 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:40.759 There are complete skeptics to say none of this is real, right, 221 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:43.559 and then there are true believers that say it's all real. 222 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:47.120 There are there are fairies and elves and dragons, and 223 00:11:47.159 --> 00:11:48.120 it's all of it. Right. 224 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:50.679 I think most of us are somewhere along that spectrum, 225 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:54.679 and we move closer to the true believer side when 226 00:11:54.919 --> 00:11:57.440 things that we can't explain happen to us. 227 00:11:57.919 --> 00:12:00.799 You know, somebody believes that they saw goes, or they. 228 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:04.840 Were abducted by aliens, or they were abducted by fairies, 229 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:08.639 you know, whatever it is that they believe. And again 230 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:11.759 it's important that they believe it, not whether or not 231 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:14.960 I believe that. You know, it's it's true and it 232 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:16.120 really happened to them. 233 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:16.399 Right. 234 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:20.879 Well, we have somebody in the comments. What he says, 235 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:23.279 they got abducted by a vampire cult. 236 00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:32.639 So, yeah, I. 237 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:34.159 Got catfished by a vampire cult, and yeah, it's yeah. 238 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:36.279 And she she talks about her story. It was like 239 00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:38.120 this online thing for like ten years. 240 00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:40.519 Oh yeah, what's her name? I think we have home 241 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:46.240 on possibly, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, we had, and I'm 242 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:49.879 talking about somebody completely different. Actually that's funny, you know, 243 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:52.360 it's funny. We had thumpaforgol last night and he told 244 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:54.159 me that when he went and checked out the podcast. 245 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:55.600 I don't know how it came up, and he said, 246 00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:57.840 that episode, you just found that one and as soon 247 00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:00.240 as he saw like ex Vampire cult member as I 248 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:01.519 already do, was the show for me. 249 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:03.279 That's hilarious. 250 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:04.919 Yeah, yeah, that's integrity thing. 251 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:07.360 Yeah, that's funny stuff. 252 00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:10.320 My question is, then I have a question, So what 253 00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:13.279 do you think about the idea of then maybe redefining 254 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:16.879 the term spirit as something different than just straight up 255 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:20.320 consciousness leaving the body, and that has to be something 256 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:23.279 that is of the dead, you know what I mean? 257 00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:26.919 Yeah, certainly there's that that's a possibility. And I think 258 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:32.039 that you bring up a really interesting lens to look through, 259 00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:37.600 because I think that our definitions are really important, right, 260 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:41.639 and so when we're defining things, when we're defining magic, 261 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:43.720 when we're defining folklore. 262 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:45.639 Those are important. 263 00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:48.240 So if you want to look at it, through a 264 00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:51.840 lens that you feel like has a more real world 265 00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:57.240 view or application. Then I think that's perfectly valid. You know, 266 00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:01.360 you have to take my definition for what a spirit is, yeah, of. 267 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:02.000 Course, of course. 268 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:07.840 And also I've seen several different definitions of kind of 269 00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:11.559 what spirit entities are in regard to this idea of 270 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:14.679 the consciousness leaving the body, or some sort of an 271 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:18.559 electrical imprint that is left on the area by the living, 272 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:22.039 or then you have the Japanese idea of like hate 273 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:25.840 or rage will build to a point that it will 274 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:31.440 develop these rage entities. So I think there are different 275 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:35.600 kind of understandings of these different metaphysical ideas. But like 276 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:38.759 you were saying at the same time, there's no hardfound 277 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:43.559 scientific way document repeatably the understanding of these things within 278 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:45.159 physical science, right. 279 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:48.159 And I think people are trying there, you know, the 280 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:51.399 ghost hunters go out there with their you know, they're 281 00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:55.720 they're checking for like electrical signals and you know, pulses 282 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:59.399 and stuff like that. So I think that you know, 283 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:02.200 there are people exploring it. I don't think that we're 284 00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:06.360 there yet. And yes, there are certainly different kinds of 285 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:11.879 thoughts about what like different types of spirits, right, there 286 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:15.960 are ones that are conscious and they know who they 287 00:15:16.039 --> 00:15:19.600 were in their most recent life and they want to 288 00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:22.200 communicate with the people that were in their life. There's 289 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:24.399 that kind and then there are the ones that are 290 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:27.840 just on a loop and you know, and almost always 291 00:15:27.919 --> 00:15:30.759 those stories are about some tragic occurrence they got, you know, 292 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:34.399 murdered tragically, and so they keep doing that. 293 00:15:34.519 --> 00:15:36.080 And that's when I think. 294 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:40.039 You're talking about the electrical sort of that stays, which 295 00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:43.799 you know that that could be certainly valid because why 296 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:48.519 are there some places that are more haunted than others? 297 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:49.200 Right? 298 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:53.159 And so like why do certain places And obviously there 299 00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:56.679 are going to be places like hospitals and prisons where 300 00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:00.799 you know, people die in you know, under difficult circumstances, 301 00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:03.320 and you'd expect that. But then there are you know, 302 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:08.360 random homes or hotels or what have you. And so 303 00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:12.919 you know, why those places and not elsewhere? You know, 304 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:15.960 I think about I'm in Chicago, and I think about 305 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:20.679 Lincoln Park in Chicago, right, And Lincoln Park is built 306 00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:22.360 over and it has a zoo. 307 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:23.799 It's a beautiful park. 308 00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:28.000 It's along the lakefront, and it was built over the 309 00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:34.519 original city cemetery. And they you know, like they just said, 310 00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:36.480 the city's gotten too big. 311 00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:37.759 We need this land back. 312 00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:39.919 They took it back, but a lot of the people, 313 00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:44.120 especially the poorer people, they weren't ever moved. Some people 314 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:46.480 with money were moved, but a lot of the people 315 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:48.759 are just still under there. 316 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:51.679 Now. I hear about this and I know about it. 317 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:55.559 But people aren't talking about like ghosts popping up in 318 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:58.759 you know, the petting zoo in Lincoln Park Zoo, right, 319 00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:03.879 But then they're talking about places like particular hotels, particular 320 00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:06.519 graveyards that are like, oh, this is the most haunted 321 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:07.519 place in Chicago. 322 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:10.319 So I just I think it's it's. 323 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:13.960 Interesting that some places are considered to be very haunted 324 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:19.519 even with no direct connection to like horrible deaths and things. 325 00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:22.160 Like that, right, almost energetically charged. 326 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:25.599 Well, that's what I was kind of hunkering too, like 327 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:28.519 about you know, like when you go to other cultures, 328 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:31.200 like in Bali in particular, when something has a lot 329 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:34.000 of spirit, they'll wrap like a sacred cloth around it. 330 00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:36.920 And so there is also kind of the idea of 331 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:39.599 like nature spirits. Like when you say spirit, I instantly 332 00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:41.720 go to like nature spirits because that's what I personally 333 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:44.519 feel like I connect to like trees and just kind of. 334 00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:45.759 Have spirits of the earth. 335 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:48.039 And I don't necessarily know if they're like I don't 336 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:51.200 think they're deceased people. I don't know if I can 337 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:54.839 even explain what those spirits are. But I know, like 338 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:57.720 even in Japan, like I think there's that concept of 339 00:17:57.799 --> 00:18:01.799 just like nature spirits, so have a distinction between like 340 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:04.680 I mean, I know it's like definitions, but my mind 341 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:06.680 when I go to spirit goes to that. So I 342 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:09.240 just want to kind of understand that perspective. 343 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:13.759 Perhaps, Yeah, I think that you know, land spirits or 344 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:18.480 elemental spirits, those kinds of things, that's a very different 345 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:22.519 thing than when you're talking about like humans that have 346 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:26.759 passed over. It's also a different thing when you're considering 347 00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:31.000 fairies and elves and are those spirits? Are they actual 348 00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:35.319 creatures out there? And so I think that spirits in 349 00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:38.519 general is such a broad category and it can be 350 00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:42.759 so many different things. And you know, as part of 351 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:48.759 my practice, I certainly am respectful of like the the 352 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:53.160 nature spirits and the elemental spirits, and that's incorporated into 353 00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:54.359 my personal practice. 354 00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:55.480 But that's my belief. 355 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:59.839 That's not something that I'm saying, Hey, everybody, I'm going 356 00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:03.920 to tell you why. You know, land spirits are real, 357 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:07.599 but I do believe that, and I incorporate that into 358 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:08.200 my work. 359 00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:11.160 Yeah, I think it's the most tangible way to show 360 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:14.039 people that spirit is real, you know, because like you 361 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:16.640 can feel the energy of a tree, Go lean up 362 00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:18.200 against a tree, and you're gonna feel like it's like 363 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:20.880 sucking you in, right, So in kind of that sense, 364 00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:21.799 it is almost. 365 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:24.400 The most provable type of spirit in a way. 366 00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:29.960 Yeah, I think when you're talking about energetic work, so 367 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:34.640 we have, like human beings have a particular vibration and 368 00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:37.680 there's a rank in which we're healthiest, right, I think 369 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:41.200 it's between like seven hurts and twenty hurts, right, And 370 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:43.279 if we start to get too high in that range, 371 00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:47.160 we start to feel things like we have disorders like 372 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:50.400 anxiety or insomnia, are those kinds of things, right, If 373 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:53.880 we're vibrating too high, if we start to get too low, 374 00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:56.359 we start to get you know, depression. 375 00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:56.440 And all of that. 376 00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:59.519 And so most of us are now sitting in front 377 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:01.519 of a computer for a lot of the day, or 378 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:03.960 you know, there's Wi Fi all around us and all 379 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:07.440 of these electronic devices that are everywhere around us. And 380 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:11.880 on our bodies raise our vibration. They vibrate higher than 381 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:13.759 we do, so it raises our vibration. 382 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:14.119 Right. 383 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:16.200 But when you go out into. 384 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:20.000 Nature, if you look at the trees and the land itself, 385 00:20:20.359 --> 00:20:25.480 the vibration there is lower. And so that's why people 386 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:28.000 go out and they're like hugging trees and stuff, because 387 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.519 they're getting themselves back to a more balanced place for 388 00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:36.400 their body. And so that's very real on an energetic level. 389 00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:41.119 And again saying like I'm going to say that this 390 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:44.000 is a tree spirit, I completely support that. 391 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:45.279 I think it's great. 392 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:49.799 I believe in that myself, so of course I'm going 393 00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:53.480 to be like, that's right. You know if somebody else doesn't, 394 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:55.160 they just say I just want to go with straight 395 00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:57.680 up science on it. I know I feel better when 396 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:00.160 I go out into the woods, like, well, then I'll 397 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:02.920 hug that tree. And I don't I don't care what 398 00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:05.519 you call it in a lot of ways because I 399 00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:06.200 think about this. 400 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:10.000 Okay. So I have a brother, right, his name's John. 401 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:13.359