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Speaker 1: The paranormal Zifos, Monsters, Mysteries that you're listening to Talking

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Weird and know from a Kevin deep in the northwards

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your host, Doctor Dean Bertram.

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Speaker 2: Who.

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Speaker 3: Greetings, are my fellow widows and weirdows. Welcome to Talking

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Weird on the Untold Radio Network. I'm your host, Dean Bertram,

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and as always I'm decided. I'm delighted rather that you've

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decided to spend the next hour or so of your

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life with me. Whether you're watching us live every Thursday

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night at nine pm Central on YouTube or ex or Facebook,

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or watching or listening to the show archived on those

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sites after that time, or maybe you're listening to the

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audio only version of the podcast which drops the following

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Friday every week. Regardless, I'm delighted that you're going to

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spend some time with me. And here's some very weird

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Bigfoot tales tonight. I am so delighted with tonight's guest.

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He's been on the show a number of times. He's

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a very good friend of mine. He's a paranormal investigator, researcher,

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author and filmmaker from British Columbia, Canada. And my goodness

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is he prolific and busios just talking to him before

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the show started, and quite in awe of all the

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projects he's always churning out, which are always so impressive too.

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He is the co founder of the Canadian Paranormal Society,

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the co creator, writer and director of the award winning

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web series We Want to Believe, and the author of

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five books, the most recent being The Legend of Oga, Pogo,

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Canada's Lockness Monster and Heart of Ice Tracking the Wendigo

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from Small Town Monsters Publishing. He also appears in the

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Small Town Monsters documentary's Cursed Waters, Creature of Lake Okanagan,

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and On the Trail of Bigfoot The Origin. He's the

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writer director of the recent Small Town Monsters documentaries Tracking

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the Wind You Go and Sasquatch Legacy, as well as

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the web series Sasquatch Quetch Sasquatch Quest Try Saying that

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five times fast, which I believe is where we're going

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to start our conversation tonight. So I'm delighted to have

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back on the show, the one and only mister Jason

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Ewits Greetings, Jason, good evening, Dean, how are you man.

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I'm great, I'm happy to have you back.

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Speaker 2: It's good to be here. Always, always a pleasure to

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come on in chat. I think yours is one of

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the first shows I ever ever did, way back in

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the day when we launched We want to Believe, Wow,

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it was already six years ago, so.

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Speaker 3: Geeze time five. I remember having Pete and you won

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one episode of Talking Weird as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I was on, then he was on,

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then he and I were both on and something like that, right,

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So it's yeah, time does fly. I can't believe how

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long ago that was.

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Speaker 3: Time. Always fun to see Pete in some of your

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Small Town Monsters productions as well, including one of the

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ones we're going to be talking about today. There's so

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many of you, there's so many things I want to

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talk to about you. But I think what we might

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jump off with is the second most recent episode of

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your awesome new series, Sasquatch Quest, and that's the one

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that looks at the It's one of those historical stories,

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which is anybody who's ever read extensively on Bigfoot always

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came across and I knew I was fascinated by the

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story from the age of a boy when I first

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started reading Bigfoot stories. And that's about the capture of

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potentially a juvenile sasquatch way back in the I think

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it's the nineteenth century. Who who they named? I believe

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it was Jocko. Was it Jacko?

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Speaker 2: It was Jacko? Yeah, And that was like the eighteen

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nineties or something like that, I think is when I

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think it's happened. And it was outside of the town

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of Yale, British Columbia, which is in the Fraser Valley,

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at a location called Tunnel Numberumber four. And it was

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happened at a time when the railroad was the primary

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mode of transportation, you know, across Canada and across British Columbia.

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And yeah, I mean, I'm like you, Dean, I mean,

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I grew up reading sasquatch stories and all this kind

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of stuff, and Jacko was one that always came up

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because the prospect that someone actually captured a juvenile sasquatch,

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potentially juven and juvenile sasquatch is amazing. But it's one

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of those and it was before anyone even knew what

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the term sasquatch hadn't even been coined yet, you know

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what I mean. That didn't happen until decades later. And

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then Bigfoot was even later than that, So it is

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one of those classic Sasquatch folk tales. And so when

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we had the opportunity when I when I was tasked

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with doing Sasquatch Quest the series, I knew I wanted

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to do it at Harrison Hot Springs with like Thomas

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Steinberg and the Bookwa's Crew as kind of a companion

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piece to Sasquatch Legacy. And the story was there, and

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that Thomas had researched the story. It was one of

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those things we just had to had to go do it.

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Speaker 3: What fascinated me so much about this episode is again

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it was something that I'd read the accounts of, you know,

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or the accounts of many times in various big Foot books.

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But to see the location that you got to go

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out there and stand where this poor creature was allegedly

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kind of trapped on this overhanging rock face, you know

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what I mean, and the men went up above and

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threw rocks at it till they knock him unconscious. Like cash,

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you dropped off. So what was it like for you

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being there? I mean, after like me being aware of

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this story for so long.

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Speaker 2: It was surreal, Like it was one of those real

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surreal things. It was on like I think the third

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day that we were down there, and we shot a

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bunch of the day before, and we still had more

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filming to do that night. But you know where we

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were staying. It was only like about an hour and

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a bit from Yale. So we drove there in the

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morning with Thomas and he's like the only researcher I

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think in British Columbia that had ever been there. Even

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like John Green had never gone there or Neede to Hendon,

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Grover Crowns, I don't think any of them had ever

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been there. And Thomas told us after we had filmed

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there that we were like the only documentary crew that

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had ever been down there.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that was quite a coup.

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Speaker 2: And I couldn't believe it because I mean, you know,

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there's so many people that have made Sasquatch documentaries long

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before I ever tried to. But I guess it's just

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one of those things that happened. So we drove to

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a spot and then we had to hike in for

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a lot longer than seems apparent on film, Like it

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was quite a long hike in. It took like a

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good half hour, and there's a chunk just before you

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get to the tunnel number four, which is really narrow, so

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we kind of had to move very quickly lest a

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train came. And so we got there and it was

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as close as you could get, and it was just

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this surreal thing. And then have Thomas sort of stand

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there and relay in great detail, and he is a

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great storyteller, like he could tell it far better than

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I ever could, the whole story and the history behind it,

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and what apparently happened to Jacko after was just like

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one of those like pinch me moments as a filmmaker

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and as a research and as a writer, like to

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be able just to be there doing this. It was,

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like I think I said at the end of the episode,

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one of the greatest moments of my life, at least professionally.

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Speaker 3: You did. I was very impressed when you said that.

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As somebody who's been in historical sites as well, I

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know those moments when you went, wow, this is significant,

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and I could see it on your face when you said.

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I thought to it, I'm just so happy that Jason

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gotts have that experience when he was making this film.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was great, and I mean so

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I mean, for those that don't know it, that is

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the location where the train had come. They'd seen Jacko

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outside of this tunnel. He had attempted to climb away.

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The other men went up like like Dean said, and

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got to the top, were building him with rocks and

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everything to knock them off and knock them out, and

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they basically went out and tied them up and threw

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them on the train. And the train continued onto Yale

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to a location where it was like this train yard

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and these buildings, and they kept Jacko inside one of

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those buildings like no, I don't think anyone knows exactly

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how long. And then he just and they kept feeding him,

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et cetera, and he just kind of disappeared into the

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annals of history, with one of the theories being that

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he died because you know, he was not being properly

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treated or you know, in this right environment, and two

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that he'd ended up with like Barnum and Bailey's Barnum

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and Bailey's no, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Circus, yeah it was did he was the original Jojo

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the dog faced boy or something, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Which is wild, you know what I mean. And then

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eventually probably died from there too, and then was replaced

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by someone else. And what's so wild about this is that, like,

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it was pretty well publicized in the press back then,

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but this was also an era where a lot of

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journalism was what we would now call tabloid journalism, and

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it was very sensationalized. And so did it actually happen

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is the one thing no one can really prove one

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hundred percent one way or the other. But if it

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was true, as Thomas said, it was a missed opportunity

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to solve a mystery before anybody even knew what the

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mystery was, because nobody was talking about Sasquatch or wild

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people in the woods in terms of like Western culture

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at all at that time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very it's such a poignant story because again,

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if you are a believer in flesh and blood Bigfoot,

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this might have, as Thomas said, and you just reiterated,

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solved the Sasquatch mystery before it had even begun. But

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even you know, even if you're like me, somebody who

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has a different, you know, perspective perhaps in what Sasquatch is,

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it's a very it's still a powerful story. It's a

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powerful piece of folklore. Do you tend to lean either

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way in your interpretation, Jason, do you tend to think

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this was an example of yellow journalism or do you

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tend to think there might have actually been something which was,

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you know, anomalist caught on the ledge of that rocky

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outcrop back in the eighteen nineties.

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Speaker 2: I think even like tabloid journalism has a grain of

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truth to it to some So something happened at Tunnel

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number four. Maybe it was like some wild child from

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the world, you know what I mean, of an indigenous

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tribe or something that was captured and they just sort

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of attributed to that. I believe something happened. I'm like you, like,

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I kind of like I dance on that fence of

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like flesh and blood and paranormal as well. Like I

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kind of try to keep pretty open about that. But

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I don't I don't know. I think I think something happened,

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but I just don't know exactly what. I don't I

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can't say for sure it was an actual juvenile sasquatch

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because we just we just don't know, and you know,

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there's no photographs from that time, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: We had an interesting comment from NW Native track Is

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saying Jacko was a real being according to my native grandmother,

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and she was born in eighteen ninety seven.

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Speaker 2: Well, and that would that would make perfect sense. Someone

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from them would know more than us all these hundreds

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of plus years later trying to put it together.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, fascinating.

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Speaker 2: There you have it. That could be very well the case.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting eighteen ninety seven is in that date as well,

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which is again around you know, the discovery of Jacko,

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because that was, as you were mentioning, it's a period

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where so much of classic forty in cases do get

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muddied in this waters of you said, tabligjournalists, more yellow

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journalism as they used to call it. Then the Great

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Airship Flap of eighteen ninety seven is what that data

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immediately brought to mind, the idea that there was this

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massive craft that went across the US from almost coast

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to coast, and every newspaper covered people in their areas

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supposedly seeing this, you know, illuminated dirigible or heavier than

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aircraft floating across America, and every paper seemed to have

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its own version of who the crew might have been

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and what the interactions were with locals. And it's so

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difficult when you read that story is somebody whose wheelhouse

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is more eufology than perhaps you know, cryptid research. It's

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difficult to say what in there is somehow genuine? What

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is it is just you know, a journalist spinning a

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story because they know it's you know, taking America by

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storm and let's have our own local airship story on

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the front page this week.

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Speaker 2: So exactly, and even factual stories were really written like

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we're torqud up right in the way that they were

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written right, And you could do that then. I mean

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I was in journal newspapers, you know, for ten years,

238
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and you couldn't do that because of the times it changed.

239
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But back then you could get as colorful as you

240
00:12:05,279 --> 00:12:07,120
wanted with the language. So even something that was a

241
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true story, it could be pumped up a little bit.

242
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Speaker 3: It's interesting before you said too that maybe Jacko was

243
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perhaps an indigenous child or something. There's a similar story.

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I forget the name of the which was given to

245
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,120
the entity, but there was a story in again around

246
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that time. Somebody might know it in the chat and

247
00:12:24,519 --> 00:12:26,279
they might be able to mention them. But but a story

248
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from I think that period, late nineteen thirty twentieth century

249
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of a wild woman being caught in somewhere in the

250
00:12:32,879 --> 00:12:35,200
old Soviet Union, in a very rural area, and she

251
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was essentially, I guess, press ganged by the local village

252
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that found her into doing free labor for them, and

253
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I think various men of the village, when they got drunk,

254
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would go and you know, do unspeakable acts with her.

255
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And she had a number of children, and some of

256
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the children would die because she tried to wash them

257
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in the in the icy cold river, you know, after

258
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she'd given birth to them by herself, and it would

259
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kill them. But a couple were saved by the locals.

260
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And then apparently later they did genetic testing on the

261
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descendants of this woman, and they all looked quite strange,

262
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and they were bigger and they were stronger than the locals,

263
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and I think it turned out that there was some

264
00:13:10,519 --> 00:13:12,759
African DNA in there or something. So there was this

265
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idea that this woman was maybe an African slave who'd

266
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somehow escaped somewhere in the area, and then the locals,

267
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not being used to people from Africa, had misidentified and

268
00:13:23,399 --> 00:13:26,159
thought she was a wild person. So that's a similar

269
00:13:26,159 --> 00:13:28,840
to what you were suggesting with Jacko. Maybe a misidentification

270
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,720
by somebody who wasn't familiar with something maybe in inherent

271
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I guess of the period, you know, a stereotypical way

272
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of looking at the world through you know, specific eyes.

273
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,960
So what you said, Daniel, that rings a real potential

274
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,240
bell of what might be the long forgotten explanation of

275
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,080
what Jacko really or who Jacko really was.

276
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it just works right, And I think

277
00:13:50,879 --> 00:13:54,759
even NW Native Tracker said that Zara was the name

278
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,480
of the of the woman you were speaking of. Ye

279
00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,399
just put that in Russia, I mean, and then there's

280
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,960
always there is still a chance that it could actually

281
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,159
be have been a juvenile Sasquatch. But I just think

282
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if something's going to get misinterpreted, that would make sense,

283
00:14:09,159 --> 00:14:11,720
and that would happen a lot in that era too, right,

284
00:14:12,039 --> 00:14:13,720
with people not being as well read or as well

285
00:14:13,759 --> 00:14:16,080
traveled and access to information that we all have today.

286
00:14:17,759 --> 00:14:20,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's an another thing here from Native Track of

287
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,600
talking about Jacko. Now, if you stay old traveling side show,

288
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,360
actually you can find billets of him and a few

289
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:25,480
photos of him.

290
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,840
Speaker 2: That's interesting historical do I'm sure somewhere there would be right, Yeah,

291
00:14:28,919 --> 00:14:30,679
would have been maybe when he was on the road

292
00:14:30,759 --> 00:14:34,679
with the Barnum and Bailey circus, right, yeah.

293
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, possibly. And Bob Anturn, a very good friend of

294
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,519
mine and good friend of the show, says, there's a

295
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,879
variation that Jacko's story here in North Bend, similar story

296
00:14:41,919 --> 00:14:44,679
but different location. Never figured out why that is. That's

297
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:49,799
interesting that then starts to take on the take on

298
00:14:49,919 --> 00:14:53,240
the nature of folk tales, like every town has its

299
00:14:53,279 --> 00:14:56,879
you know bridge where a bride committed suicide on every town,

300
00:14:56,879 --> 00:14:58,240
but a lot of towns do, or a lot of

301
00:14:58,279 --> 00:15:01,080
towns has you know this pla where you meant to see,

302
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:02,960
you know, a figure in why was you know, the

303
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,480
phantom hitchhiker or this is very common. So it's interesting

304
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,679
that Bob says there's a similar story in North ben

305
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,559
Washington here, and that makes you you wonder if what

306
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,159
the nature of the folk tale aspects of the story was.

307
00:15:15,679 --> 00:15:19,720
Speaker 2: How many other story tale now, yeah, look a hundred percent,

308
00:15:19,799 --> 00:15:24,120
Like we even have like near Boston bar one of

309
00:15:24,159 --> 00:15:27,320
those stories about the hitchhiker, the female hitchhiker, ghost hitchhike,

310
00:15:27,399 --> 00:15:28,799
we have one of those as well, that you know,

311
00:15:28,879 --> 00:15:31,200
I mean, I think these stories just travel, especially when

312
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,360
they're rel tied into something that's especially nowadays as popular

313
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,480
in pop culture as sasquat ches. It just makes sense

314
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,320
you hear these stories were start to pop up everywhere. Yeah.

315
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,440
Speaker 3: I mean you're somebody who does as a documentary and

316
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,720
an awful lot of field work in this space as well,

317
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,360
which I admire when you've been doing the work that

318
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,000
you do. Are there stories that you have come across,

319
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,480
unlike Jacko, which are kind of open to you know,

320
00:15:57,159 --> 00:16:00,440
various historical interpretations and the origins might be lost in

321
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,159
the annals of history now, But are there any particular

322
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,840
bigfoot stories which have really grabbed you and you've really

323
00:16:05,879 --> 00:16:09,240
gone this this is something that indicates there really is

324
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,720
you know, where they smoke, there really is fire.

325
00:16:12,559 --> 00:16:15,799
Speaker 2: I think one of the ones that we covered in

326
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,639
Sasquatch Legacy with Kent and j Moore, which is up

327
00:16:19,639 --> 00:16:23,320
here in the interior of British Columbia. Him and his

328
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,240
friend had been out in the back country like hunting,

329
00:16:26,279 --> 00:16:28,879
and they pulled over because his buddy had seen something

330
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,600
up on a ridge and had gone up the ridge

331
00:16:31,639 --> 00:16:33,440
to take a look, and Kenton had stayed back with

332
00:16:33,519 --> 00:16:36,960
his friend's two kids and this guy, his buddy just

333
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,200
came running back down the hill at full tilts, terrified

334
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,360
and like he's yelling, getting the truck, getting the truck.

335
00:16:43,399 --> 00:16:45,840
It's a sasquatch. They all got in the truck and

336
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,440
this guy babies is like, you know, sixty thousand dollars

337
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,200
pickup and just tears out of there like a bat

338
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,919
out of hell, you know, and drives for kilometers. They

339
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,720
feels safe and can sort of settle down having a cigarette,

340
00:16:55,759 --> 00:16:59,240
and was basically telling Kenton that he was looking around

341
00:16:59,399 --> 00:17:02,559
and something had thrown this large log at him from

342
00:17:02,559 --> 00:17:04,799
out of the tree line. Didn't see what it was,

343
00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,680
but what else could pick up a large log? And

344
00:17:07,279 --> 00:17:10,200
in this gentleman's mind, and so, you know, hearing that story,

345
00:17:10,279 --> 00:17:12,839
and as Kenton says, like he doesn't believe in sasquatch,

346
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,480
but he believes in his buddy who has been his

347
00:17:14,519 --> 00:17:16,240
best friend for his entire life and isn't going to

348
00:17:16,279 --> 00:17:19,400
see him as a liar. And I trust Kenton's telling

349
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,759
of it. And so we went to that location in

350
00:17:21,759 --> 00:17:24,559
the film and looked around and you know, found like

351
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:27,240
you know, potential prints of our own. And so I

352
00:17:27,279 --> 00:17:29,920
had well in the woods, smelled some smells that just

353
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:34,519
didn't seem quite right. That kind of thing. So that

354
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,119
story to me sounds like it's a lot more like

355
00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,440
that to me, is a credible story during our research,

356
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:40,680
et cetera. While we're doing this.

357
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it must be fine fun finding those kind of things.

358
00:17:46,559 --> 00:17:49,319
Another thing which was very cool in the most recent

359
00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:54,880
episode of of your new series Sasquatch Quest, and that

360
00:17:55,039 --> 00:17:59,279
is when you were in Thomas's Thomas Steinberg's library or

361
00:17:59,319 --> 00:18:03,119
his office, and he shows you the full the Patterson

362
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:07,640
Gimwin film, including including an awful lot of an awful

363
00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:15,440
lot of I suppose footage that that hasn't isn't regularly

364
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,160
regularly seen. And we had somebody commenting a minute ago

365
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,440
saying that the Jacko story has been debunked and accused

366
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:22,880
us of lying, which I don't think is the case.

367
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,359
I think it has probably many people say it's a hoax,

368
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,400
but I think it still is one of those stories

369
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:32,920
which is which has resonated throughout throughout the big Footlaw,

370
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,039
and I think that's why it's still worth talking about it.

371
00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:36,000
I don't think we're trying.

372
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:38,839
Speaker 2: It hasn't gone away, and I don't think well much

373
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,599
like like we're just talking about the Patterson Gillan film

374
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,640
and when we filmed that. That was before all the

375
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,279
everything that came out about the Patterson Gillin film. Since

376
00:18:47,279 --> 00:18:50,240
I think that that upcoming documentary, that's what I was.

377
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:51,319
Speaker 3: Going to do. I was gonna I was going to

378
00:18:51,319 --> 00:18:53,160
give you the floor for a minute. So I'll give

379
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,880
you the full screen just to maybe talk about your

380
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,400
feelings on watching that and then segue if you can

381
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,119
in a little if you have any take on these

382
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,960
new accusations of these new suggestions that the Patterson give

383
00:19:04,039 --> 00:19:05,599
One film is a hoax, not that they knew. People

384
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,000
have been suggesting it for a number of decades.

385
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,599
Speaker 2: Now, almost since it was it came out. Yeah, basically

386
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,720
was the case with these kind of films exactly.

387
00:19:14,599 --> 00:19:16,119
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe wex a little bit on that.

388
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess. I mean it was like most people like,

389
00:19:20,599 --> 00:19:23,440
we've only seen that one sort of I think, you know,

390
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,920
sixteen to thirty second clip of this of Patty walking

391
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,960
across the tree line, turning, looking at the camera and

392
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,480
continuing on. But Thomas has the full footage that was shot,

393
00:19:34,599 --> 00:19:37,200
and that's sort of what we show in the latest

394
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,160
episode is just let the camera and it's not playing

395
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,920
on his computer, and I just ran the camera while

396
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,680
he let it play out, so you can see this

397
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,839
this playout. And it was really neat to watch the

398
00:19:47,039 --> 00:19:50,400
entirety of this footage because it just we only see

399
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,839
that one clip. So it just at the time watching

400
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:59,039
this felt it lent a little more credibility to everything,

401
00:19:59,079 --> 00:20:01,440
even though I have my doubts about the footage as well.

402
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,599
And I think that this film that's coming out, this

403
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,400
Capturing Bigfoot, I mean, it's only screened once, only a

404
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:11,720
handful of people have seen it. Everybody's got their own

405
00:20:11,759 --> 00:20:14,880
opinion on where whether it's proves that the Patterson Gillman

406
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,640
film as a hoax or not. There was a screen

407
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,279
that was supposed to take place afterwards, it was canceled,

408
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,839
and now the film's supposed to be coming out in September.

409
00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,440
I believe so a lot of people, especially a lot

410
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,319
of people in the realm of Sasquatch research, are going

411
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,880
to be curious to watch it as am I. As

412
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:36,440
is Thomas Steinberg, and he knew Patterson and you was

413
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,799
a friend of his, and so he's very curious now too,

414
00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:42,480
because if this turns out that this documentary can prove

415
00:20:42,599 --> 00:20:44,920
give irrefutable proof the film's a hoax, that's a blow

416
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,519
to someone who is a friend. But my idea is

417
00:20:48,519 --> 00:20:51,680
is we put a lot, way too much weight on

418
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,640
the Patterson Gimlin film as the determining yay or nay

419
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:59,279
when it comes to Sasquatch. Indigenous people have been hearing

420
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,240
stories about sad They've been seeing Sasquatches a part of

421
00:21:03,279 --> 00:21:06,039
their culture. It's gone on for thousands of years. Stories

422
00:21:06,039 --> 00:21:08,680
were published in newspapers and books long before the Patterson

423
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,160
Gillman film came along. So I think we need to

424
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,960
stop focusing on the Patterson Gilllan film as the be

425
00:21:14,039 --> 00:21:17,119
all and end all of Sasquatch and just look at

426
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,839
the fact that people are still having experiences out in

427
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,160
the woods. Stories are still coming forward, and there has

428
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,759
been historical stories dating back thousands of years, and so

429
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,599
I just think that's what we need to focus on

430
00:21:29,599 --> 00:21:33,400
instead of focusing on this one This one film, whether

431
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,079
or not at the Patterson Gillman film as a hope,

432
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:36,960
doesn't mean anything when it comes to Sasquatch as a

433
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,920
broader subject of research.

434
00:21:39,279 --> 00:21:42,119
Speaker 3: Right, Gee, And I tend to agree with you. I mean,

435
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,119
I thought the I've thought the film is a hoax

436
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,960
for a very long time. Now, But that's that's another story.

437
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,960
Do you think I think your advice is wise, that

438
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,640
there's other things that can be looked at and focused on.

439
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,279
But have you, as somebody who I think is more

440
00:21:56,279 --> 00:21:58,480
involved with the big Foot community than I have, have

441
00:21:58,559 --> 00:22:03,200
you felt this that this documentary, which most people haven't

442
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,480
even seen yet, do you think the allegations and the

443
00:22:05,519 --> 00:22:09,240
publicity around it had a big impact within the community.

444
00:22:09,279 --> 00:22:11,720
Did you see people either double down in the defense

445
00:22:11,759 --> 00:22:13,519
of it or did you see people splinter off and

446
00:22:13,559 --> 00:22:15,880
start to say, Okay, it's time to distance ourselves from

447
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:16,480
this film.

448
00:22:16,799 --> 00:22:18,519
Speaker 2: Like initially it seemed like a lot of people that

449
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,119
it split as always right, it split things into so

450
00:22:22,319 --> 00:22:24,319
the people who are the naysayers were like aha, and

451
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,799
the people who who are the believers kind of doubled

452
00:22:26,839 --> 00:22:29,519
down on it. And this all happened, I know, before

453
00:22:29,559 --> 00:22:32,559
Alex Pedakoff and I went off to work on our

454
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:35,119
Journey Tape Island documentary, So we talked about this a lot,

455
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,200
and that's kind of what I did. My little soapbox

456
00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:40,160
rant was what he and I came to the conclusion

457
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,799
of all we were off filming our own documentary. But

458
00:22:42,839 --> 00:22:44,799
I think it was divisive, and I think, like I mentioned,

459
00:22:44,839 --> 00:22:47,799
for people who were friends with those that made that

460
00:22:47,839 --> 00:22:51,079
were involved by Patterson and Gimlin, that's to be friends

461
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,759
with someone like that and believe them so so strong,

462
00:22:53,839 --> 00:22:55,720
it creates that shadow of doubt and then you kind

463
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,599
of just just wonder, right like how they would feel.

464
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,079
So I know when we with Thomas at the end

465
00:23:01,079 --> 00:23:03,960
of our Ape Island shoot and talk to him, that's

466
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:05,680
the first question he asked me, and I'm like, what

467
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,920
do you think. I haven't seen it, and I need

468
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,279
to see it. I can't comment on it until I

469
00:23:10,279 --> 00:23:11,799
see it. And that's sort of my thing too, Like

470
00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:13,519
people have asked me, what do I think. I haven't

471
00:23:13,559 --> 00:23:16,640
watched this documentary, you know, so I need to watch

472
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,119
it before I can form an opinion on what they're presenting. Yeah,

473
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,359
they've got a great marketing hook. They've got everybody interested

474
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:23,440
in watching the documentary.

475
00:23:24,079 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a healthy that's a healthy position to take.

476
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,599
I think I'm certainly curious to see it. Horace had

477
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,640
a question before. Horace Smith, who's professor Emmeris of Astronomy

478
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,880
and Physics at Michigan State University, a good friend of

479
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,160
mine and a good friend of the show. He asks,

480
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,160
were hair clippings kept from Jecko had that?

481
00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:45,039
Speaker 2: I honestly have no idea, and Tom Steinberg probably would,

482
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,920
And it's in his book that he didn't write the book,

483
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,839
but he wrote the forward for it. That's a good question, actually,

484
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,799
And I can't even remember if it came up when

485
00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:55,480
we were talking about it when we were doing that shoot.

486
00:23:55,519 --> 00:23:57,440
Everything happens so fast when you're on one of those

487
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:58,759
documentary shoots.

488
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, I mean, I suspect not, but I

489
00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:07,759
certainly know that Thomas tells the story. I believe one

490
00:24:07,799 --> 00:24:10,119
of the theories or one of the tales about what

491
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,480
happened to Jacko was that he was handed over to

492
00:24:13,519 --> 00:24:16,039
a nunnery and they shaved all of his hair off

493
00:24:16,039 --> 00:24:17,880
to try to make him look like a more human

494
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,599
being and that but after him in scolding water or

495
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:21,920
something and it killed him.

496
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 2: Which that's why again, that's one of the stories around it, right,

497
00:24:25,799 --> 00:24:26,200
I don't.

498
00:24:26,039 --> 00:24:27,640
Speaker 3: Know if those nuns would have kept that hair. And

499
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,279
it's a terrible story, but it also it also has

500
00:24:30,319 --> 00:24:34,160
a ring of, I don't know, just a of almost

501
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,079
like a my carb horror tale to it. It doesn't

502
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,000
it it might it rings true at some very you know,

503
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,200
archetypal level, But I think when you step back and

504
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:43,920
look at it, I don't think that story is probably

505
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:44,799
what happened to Jacko.

506
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,119
Speaker 2: Somehow, it's amusing and it's not amusing to think about

507
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:50,720
was horrible to think about that, but it's amusing how

508
00:24:50,759 --> 00:24:52,799
so many people have come up with all these different

509
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,519
all these different theories around it. Right, It's just how

510
00:24:56,559 --> 00:25:00,279
one of those stories goes speculation, you know.

511
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 3: Absolutely are you? Are you working on the next episode

512
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:05,400
of Sasquatch Quest?

513
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:05,559
Speaker 1: Now?

514
00:25:05,599 --> 00:25:07,759
Speaker 3: I'm curious what we're going to see in the near future.

515
00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we just finished our kind of episode seven,

516
00:25:11,799 --> 00:25:14,079
which was the last episode that we filmed down with

517
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,000
Thomas and the crew in Chiliwac, And this one relates

518
00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:23,759
to a case that Thomas Steinberg investigated in nineteen eighty six,

519
00:25:23,799 --> 00:25:25,519
and it was at that point he was ready to

520
00:25:25,559 --> 00:25:28,480
give up and quit researching, and then something happened that

521
00:25:28,839 --> 00:25:32,200
kind of reinvigorated his interest in the case. And it

522
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:33,680
was one of those opportunities, I don't want to get

523
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,200
into too much of it, those opportunities where you're having

524
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,279
to catch the people who were the witnesses of this event,

525
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,079
and Thomas is the one that found all the tracks.

526
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,200
He found like one hundred tracks in relation to this encounter.

527
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,720
And usually it's like someone else who says they had

528
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:49,240
this experience points you to the tracks that they saw.

529
00:25:49,839 --> 00:25:52,039
And so I guess there's always that question in the

530
00:25:52,039 --> 00:25:53,960
back of a researcher's mind, as did this person who's

531
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,400
this alleged witness actually put to make the tracks themselves

532
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,279
or not? But he was the one that found the tracks,

533
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,599
and so we kind of tell that's story and how

534
00:26:00,599 --> 00:26:05,559
important it was to his I guess life is a

535
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,559
sasquatch researcher because he was going to quit and then

536
00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:11,359
come back. And we also touch on in that episode

537
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,680
something called the Mission Bus hoax, which is this big

538
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,119
sort of sasquatch hoax that occurred outside of Mission VC,

539
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,000
and just tell that story as well, because a lot

540
00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:23,759
of people it's basically this story about how people are

541
00:26:23,799 --> 00:26:26,960
on this bus along this highway they see a sasquatch

542
00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:30,480
run across the road. Everyone gets very excited. The RCMP

543
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,039
came out, John Green comes out, Renada Hindon comes out.

544
00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:34,920
They all sort of believe it. And then on a

545
00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:38,799
radio show, these guys from the UBC Engineering, the School

546
00:26:38,799 --> 00:26:41,119
of Engineering call and said that they basically staged the

547
00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:43,079
entire thing, and it's how that kind of fooled so

548
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,400
many people. Yeah, it's a fun story to talk about it.

549
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,000
And as much like with the allegations with the Patterson

550
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,319
Gillman film, how hoaxes can kind of really muddy the

551
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,880
waters of real serious research and the damage it can

552
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,559
do and something which isn't taken as seriously as sasquatch

553
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,119
or a lot of paranormal things. In the end, we

554
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:00,640
talk about that.

555
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,519
Speaker 3: I think, as Gray Barker would have said about uthology,

556
00:27:04,079 --> 00:27:08,000
it's all part of the pattern. Hope is a part

557
00:27:08,039 --> 00:27:12,680
of the story as well, you know, so the irony years.

558
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,960
I'm sure Barker had tongue in cheek when he told

559
00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:18,359
I think was bark who said that. But I also

560
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,960
think k and other people have written elsewhere that the

561
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,640
hoaxing does seem to be part of the phenomenon itself,

562
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,799
and that could you could take that at a very

563
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,000
and I'm just talking generally about anomalous Phenomen'm just speaking

564
00:27:31,039 --> 00:27:33,319
about Bigfoot or UFOs or anything in particular, although this

565
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:39,880
was probably in reference to UFOs, but that's if, for example,

566
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,799
somebody like Georgia Damsky, who's always incredibly dismissed. If a

567
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,240
Damski did have some kind of weird spiritual contact with

568
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:53,799
the other, then he lived in a time where he

569
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,799
might have felt culturally pressured to provide some type of

570
00:27:56,799 --> 00:27:59,640
evidence that he was unable to provide, and maybe or

571
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:02,480
encounters with the other leavers with no real evidence. But

572
00:28:02,519 --> 00:28:05,359
when you're living in a time period where the anecdotal

573
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,519
story won't travel like it did in you know, I

574
00:28:08,559 --> 00:28:10,680
don't know, eighteenth century Ireland when you were telling a

575
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,720
fairy tale or something, if you lived in a time

576
00:28:13,759 --> 00:28:16,640
where there was a need to provide proof, I think

577
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,599
sometimes it does become part of the pattern. It becomes

578
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,240
part of Okay, well this person cooks something up, and

579
00:28:22,279 --> 00:28:25,799
then this may be inspired somebody else to believe something,

580
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,720
or maybe this actually inspired the phenomenon to behave in

581
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,200
a certain way. Like I think, one of the mistakes

582
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,319
a lot of you know, the scientistic type researchers do,

583
00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:40,079
is a hoax or something that smells a little too

584
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,000
immediately real, a little too visceral. It just seems like

585
00:28:46,039 --> 00:28:49,359
it can't be real. Just throw this out. But if

586
00:28:49,359 --> 00:28:51,839
this is part of if this is part of a

587
00:28:52,079 --> 00:28:55,680
process or part of a phenomenon which is somehow linked

588
00:28:55,720 --> 00:29:00,720
to us psychologically or sociologically or spiritually, maybe we should

589
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,240
be more careful with the stories that we throw overboard,

590
00:29:03,319 --> 00:29:05,799
because maybe they are just as important as the things

591
00:29:05,839 --> 00:29:09,119
which we tend to take as more you know, a

592
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:12,680
legitimate report or a legitimate encounter. So I do think

593
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,319
it's worth still looking at the jeckos and and looking

594
00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:19,559
at the even though I've thought it was oax, looking

595
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,839
at the Patterson Gimlin footage, and looking at the Adamski stories,

596
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,599
because they weave into this cultural mythology which we can't

597
00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:30,640
even understand the phenomenon without understanding. So just to throw

598
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,240
those things over we're not even to look at this.

599
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,640
It's all nonsense. That's that's that's a naive say.

600
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: I think, I agree hundred percent. Like you have to,

601
00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:40,240
I think, look at everything as it's presented to you,

602
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,119
and then once something is proven as a hoax, then

603
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,319
you just let it go and then keep focusing on

604
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,079
the other phenomena, because I mean, you can't, like we

605
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,240
do this as investigators, like Pete and I when we're

606
00:29:52,279 --> 00:29:55,240
investigating you know, the paranormal occurrences. Every you can go

607
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,839
into a location where there's been paranormal activity, you can

608
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,880
have something happen that you can't disprove, but it doesn't

609
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,920
then mean that everything else that happens in that location

610
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:04,920
is paranormal. You got to look at every little piece

611
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,039
that happens. It's almost like its own story and separated

612
00:30:08,039 --> 00:30:10,920
from everything else, and just sort of go piece by piece.

613
00:30:11,599 --> 00:30:13,480
And I think you know the same is true with

614
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,359
sasquatch or anything like that. Just because something just because

615
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,759
you can't disprove something doesn't mean that everything you then

616
00:30:20,839 --> 00:30:22,559
take is fact. And just because something you've been able

617
00:30:22,559 --> 00:30:25,240
to disprove something doesn't mean everything after that is bs, right,

618
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:26,720
I guess, is what I'm trying to say. I think

619
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,039
the Enfield poltergeist case was one of those where they

620
00:30:29,079 --> 00:30:32,880
documented thousands of pieces of paranormal activity that the girls

621
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,799
at the same time were also caught hoaxing little of

622
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,079
little things within, right, like just to kind of keep

623
00:30:38,079 --> 00:30:40,680
people's interest going. Because you're right, there's I think a

624
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,920
pressure then to perform, especially if you get like media

625
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,000
and camera crews and everybody else involved, right, I think

626
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,680
that just comes with sadly can put pressure on people

627
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,319
to make sure something's happening all the time.

628
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:56,359
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I mean who And again, the real problem

629
00:30:56,839 --> 00:30:59,279
with the study of any of this stuff is people

630
00:30:59,319 --> 00:31:03,680
who have already such a predetermined idea of what it is.

631
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,400
Whether it's this is all just nonsense, or whether it's

632
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,079
this is all you know, some lost you know, forgotten

633
00:31:10,359 --> 00:31:13,519
hominid in the woods, whether this is an undiscovered species

634
00:31:13,559 --> 00:31:16,160
of American ape, whether the sources are from Zeta articular,

635
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,799
or whether the sources are from Venus, or whether the

636
00:31:18,839 --> 00:31:22,559
sources are from anywhere. I think that the danger and

637
00:31:22,759 --> 00:31:24,519
we're going to be talking about Keel on your show

638
00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:26,920
in the not too distant future. But the danger is

639
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,920
something that John Keele summed up very nicely, and that

640
00:31:30,039 --> 00:31:32,440
is that the enemy is belief, or belief is the enemy.

641
00:31:32,759 --> 00:31:34,680
And that is when you, I think, when you when

642
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:39,200
you come to this holding any position, all you're going

643
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,240
to ever hit is confirmation bias for your position. You're

644
00:31:42,279 --> 00:31:45,000
never going to actually learn anything more about the phenomenon

645
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,039
you're studying, or woe betide learn more about yourself or

646
00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:50,519
learn more about humanity. You're just going to be locked

647
00:31:50,559 --> 00:31:54,799
into this very predetermined position, and all you're ever going

648
00:31:54,799 --> 00:31:57,359
to want to do is build up that belief system

649
00:31:57,359 --> 00:31:59,079
you already have. That's all that happens. And you see

650
00:31:59,079 --> 00:32:01,039
it again and again and again and again with almost

651
00:32:01,079 --> 00:32:04,200
everybody you talk to in this space. It's it's scary. Really,

652
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,759
it's not scary the wrong way. It's disappointing. This is

653
00:32:06,799 --> 00:32:10,119
the way is a species we approach these things, you know.

654
00:32:10,279 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 2: Well, and especially in our era, where you've got like

655
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,240
an algorithm that will tailor everything that you're researching towards

656
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,640
whatever you know your eyss seems to be once you're in,

657
00:32:19,079 --> 00:32:21,200
so it really makes it even more dangerous, which is

658
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,559
I think we're seeing why we're seeing so much strife

659
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:28,480
and all these severe polarizations of opinion out in the world,

660
00:32:28,559 --> 00:32:30,559
and people not being able to accept what other people

661
00:32:30,559 --> 00:32:33,319
are talking about. I really hate it in this field

662
00:32:33,359 --> 00:32:36,160
when people put themselves forward, or even when I'm presented

663
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,119
as being some kind of expert in any of this stuff.

664
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,519
I don't know Jack, you know, and I've been researching

665
00:32:40,519 --> 00:32:43,079
it for thirty years. I'm new to the sasquatch stuff,

666
00:32:43,119 --> 00:32:46,480
but I'm learning. But even people like like you know,

667
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,319
Thomas Steinberg, don't consider themselves an expert. They just have

668
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,480
They're just looking for whatever information they can And as

669
00:32:52,839 --> 00:32:55,079
Thomas has said in our series a few times, stick

670
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,440
to the facts, don't deviate from them, don't start filling

671
00:32:57,519 --> 00:33:01,000
in holes with just like your own ideas that you're

672
00:33:01,039 --> 00:33:03,920
just riffing off the top of your head. And you're

673
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,799
right about the belief is the enemy. I think you

674
00:33:07,839 --> 00:33:09,799
don't want to really. I think it's I hate to

675
00:33:09,799 --> 00:33:13,799
say I'm a believer in this stuff, but I'm I've

676
00:33:13,799 --> 00:33:16,599
had experiences that I can't explain, and so that keeps

677
00:33:16,599 --> 00:33:19,839
me looking. There's sort of the closest I can get.

678
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's fine to acknowledge that there's something there.

679
00:33:23,119 --> 00:33:26,319
I think to try to just say there's nothing there

680
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,640
is more naive than in some ways even attaching some

681
00:33:29,799 --> 00:33:34,599
moderate belief system to it. But it's so difficult to

682
00:33:35,759 --> 00:33:39,160
have conversations with people who in any field, like you

683
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,559
mentioned before, and obviously clearly we're in a time where

684
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,200
political arguments, people won't even have a discussion if you're

685
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,839
on the other side of the political burialrhythm, and we

686
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,160
are living in a time where you write algorithms just

687
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,759
keep you in an echo chamber, so all you're hearing,

688
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,680
and whether it's an algorithm cleverly built by you know,

689
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,799
a social network and it just keeps feeding in you,

690
00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:02,720
you know, what you're clicking on and what you're liking

691
00:34:02,759 --> 00:34:04,519
and what you're watching, or whether it's a more simple,

692
00:34:04,559 --> 00:34:07,400
older algorithm. In other words, you have a certain demographic

693
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,000
that just watches Fox News, or a certain demographic that

694
00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:12,760
just watches C and N. That's your echo chamber there,

695
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,079
because you're just going to hear from your talking heads

696
00:34:16,119 --> 00:34:19,960
the same versions of reality. And when you encounter somebody

697
00:34:20,039 --> 00:34:22,960
whose entire reality has been shaped by the other channel

698
00:34:23,039 --> 00:34:25,639
or the other network, or the other social media algorithm

699
00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:28,920
wherever they're consuming their stuff, you just you're you're sure,

700
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,679
you're right. And it's why it's very difficult today to

701
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,519
have an actual a discussion with somebody that doesn't become

702
00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:43,079
super argumentative because they're pre programmed by very sophisticated, very

703
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:45,960
sophisticated propaganda machines. And I think that applies to the

704
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,559
paranormal as well. I think if somebody is you know,

705
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:51,960
is in the Bigfoot camp and is a member of

706
00:34:52,519 --> 00:34:54,400
in the physical Bigfoot camp, and I don't know a

707
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,760
member of BFRO, and they all they do is you know,

708
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,079
read you know, newsletters about know how this is, you know,

709
00:35:01,199 --> 00:35:04,599
some relict species or whatever. They're going to believe that

710
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,639
very strongly. And if somebody is of a more you

711
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,280
know what derogatory is, derogatively caught, it's called the WU camp,

712
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,199
then they're going to read this all spiritually. And there's

713
00:35:13,559 --> 00:35:17,320
there's no real middle ground. Often the people to the

714
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,719
people to come together and you see, yeah, and anyway

715
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:21,800
we could go through all of reality. The whole whole

716
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,559
world is separated like this. But I think the problem

717
00:35:24,599 --> 00:35:27,880
when it comes to the paranormal is more than politics.

718
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,159
We're talking about the very nature of reality and there

719
00:35:30,159 --> 00:35:32,599
are very deep and important things to learn about here

720
00:35:32,599 --> 00:35:35,840
that go beyond just the new cycle of today or

721
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,159
the political cycle of today. And perhaps the people who

722
00:35:38,199 --> 00:35:41,840
are interested in this stuff could learn more about the

723
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,760
very nature of the reality they're invested in by living

724
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,719
in it. But if all they do is want to

725
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:53,000
argue their points, they're never going to find a bigger truth. Ever.

726
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 2: No, I agree one hundred percent. And I mean we

727
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,639
were talking earlier about how like the Flesh and Blood camp,

728
00:35:59,639 --> 00:36:03,239
and then that the paranormal camp. Like, like I I'm

729
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,719
a paranormal investigator. That's what I started off doing. So

730
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,599
I believe that there could be spiritual components to Sasquatch,

731
00:36:09,679 --> 00:36:12,800
and the Indigenous people definitely talk about their spiritual components

732
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,440
and how it's in their culture and how it's like

733
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,239
a dimension walker and a forest spirit and a protector.

734
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,639
At the moment, I'm though, approaching the subject for more

735
00:36:20,639 --> 00:36:22,599
of a flesh and blood camp, only because I haven't

736
00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:25,400
had a paranormal experience with Sasquatch, you know what I mean. Like,

737
00:36:25,519 --> 00:36:27,599
I want to start somewhere and kind of work my

738
00:36:27,679 --> 00:36:30,239
way backwards. That's all. That's the only thing. But I

739
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,599
think you're right. You can't dismiss anything one. You can't

740
00:36:34,599 --> 00:36:39,559
dismiss the possibility that that's there, because then you're locking

741
00:36:39,559 --> 00:36:43,000
yourself out of part of the mystery and the truth.

742
00:36:43,039 --> 00:36:45,320
And our world is not that simple, and we're learning

743
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,280
that all the time. There's research going on with like

744
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,960
DMT and how it's more of a poor opens your

745
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,360
mind to a poor a completely different dimensions. People are

746
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:55,599
saying they might They all are referring that they're going

747
00:36:55,639 --> 00:36:57,440
to the same place, but they're being greeted by different

748
00:36:57,519 --> 00:36:59,159
kinds of beings. Wit. This is a whole other topic,

749
00:36:59,159 --> 00:37:01,360
but it's just something I still across recently. So there's

750
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,280
that could answer a whole bunch of questions in terms

751
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,440
of reality and the paranormal.

752
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, Terrence McKenna did all those studies back in the day,

753
00:37:09,679 --> 00:37:12,880
and he called themself articulating machine elves or something. They're

754
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,440
essentially like gray extraterrestrial. So you could encounter if you

755
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,280
did the d MT dose that he told you to

756
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:23,440
and as aahuasca, there's other hallucinogens that generate these type

757
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,960
of very vivid experiences of a different reality. And I mean,

758
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,840
I've never experimented with any of those things, mainly because

759
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:36,079
I'm too much of a control free to I wouldn't

760
00:37:36,079 --> 00:37:38,000
be good. I wouldn't be good out of my mind

761
00:37:38,039 --> 00:37:40,239
for you several hours. It just wouldn't wouldn't work with me.

762
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,000
But I wonder if that cracks the walls of reality.

763
00:37:44,039 --> 00:37:46,000
I wonder if that does for the people who are

764
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:50,480
the proponents of it, does offer us some insights into

765
00:37:50,639 --> 00:37:53,360
our reality. And I think without having to engage in

766
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,599
anything like that, I think the study of some of

767
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,119
the anomalous topics we're talking about tonight's by study. You're

768
00:38:01,159 --> 00:38:04,639
trying to approach it with as few blinders as possible

769
00:38:04,639 --> 00:38:07,519
and as broad as you can. So not just sasquatch,

770
00:38:07,639 --> 00:38:11,079
not just UFOs, not just ghosts, but cast your net

771
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:15,519
very widely. I think then, much like perhaps you know

772
00:38:15,639 --> 00:38:18,239
a d MT trip, then you might start to see

773
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,239
some cracks in the veil of reality that you've been

774
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,480
comfortably living in. And I think that's the value of

775
00:38:24,519 --> 00:38:26,679
being interested in this stuff, to be honest, that maybe

776
00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:29,079
it can tell us more about us and our reality.

777
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,000
While most people are obviously they're more interested in, you know,

778
00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:34,519
what is Bigfoot, or proving what Bigfoot is, approving what

779
00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:36,760
UFOs are, or if we knock on the doors of

780
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,400
the government and yell for you know, revelations, long enough,

781
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,960
disclosure will come. They want they want this predetermined belief

782
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,920
system to be somehow proven and justified. Well, I think

783
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,199
they're missing out and saying all of these things, whatever

784
00:38:49,239 --> 00:38:52,480
they are, whether they are you know, extraterrestrials or whether

785
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,320
they are hairy relics, or what this is telling us

786
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,039
something about very different about our reality that we're existing in.

787
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,679
Maybe that's maybe that's the joy that can come from

788
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,000
this actually opening our eyes to this stranger universe that

789
00:39:06,039 --> 00:39:08,840
we're operating in, and word beside, they're all actually connected,

790
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,920
like people like John Keele suggested, then what does it

791
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:13,159
tell us about our reality?

792
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: Well, that's why I think it's so unfortunate that the

793
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,639
like the big Foot camp doesn't like the ghost hunting camp,

794
00:39:19,679 --> 00:39:21,800
and the ghost hunting camp doesn't like the UFO camp,

795
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,760
you know, and no UFO people don't seem to like anybody,

796
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:27,719
whereas like if we all kind of started trying to

797
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,599
work together. But I think part of that is you're right.

798
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,440
I think it's everyone. Someone in each one of these

799
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,559
groups wants to be the one that comes provides the

800
00:39:36,559 --> 00:39:39,519
big aha moment answer, And so that's why nobody wants

801
00:39:39,519 --> 00:39:43,079
to work together. Right. I think that's a mistake because

802
00:39:43,079 --> 00:39:45,440
and that's why with came Paranormal Society. When Pete and

803
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,159
I formed it, we always said, like we're, yes, we're

804
00:39:47,159 --> 00:39:48,920
ghost hunters, but we want to look into Sasquatch, we

805
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,360
want to look into the UFOs and all this other

806
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,679
phenomenon has we come across it. We're not shutting our

807
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,280
minds off to any one particular thing even though we

808
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,199
might not be experts and we started doing the sax

809
00:39:57,199 --> 00:39:59,119
squat stuff, we didn't know jack about what we were doing,

810
00:39:59,159 --> 00:40:02,519
which is why went can I with Thomas Steinberg and

811
00:40:02,519 --> 00:40:05,079
his people. But I think you have to be open

812
00:40:05,159 --> 00:40:07,239
to all this because I, like Keil and you and

813
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:08,840
I have talked about this. I think even on our

814
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,559
very first conversation, Dean, believe that all of this is

815
00:40:12,639 --> 00:40:15,639
all part of in some way the same phenomenon, right,

816
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,199
And that's kind of as close as I'll get to, like,

817
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,280
you know, getting WU today. But that's I think it's

818
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,639
all part of the same phenomenon, and it is an

819
00:40:24,639 --> 00:40:27,559
integral part of our experience here on this planet, and

820
00:40:27,599 --> 00:40:29,960
we do not understand it. I think I think we

821
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,519
said this before, we were talking about there was a

822
00:40:31,559 --> 00:40:34,079
time when we were in better had a better relationship

823
00:40:34,119 --> 00:40:37,079
with it, and we've lost that, and I think we

824
00:40:37,119 --> 00:40:39,840
need to get back to it. Yeah.

825
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,119
Speaker 3: I think we live in a time now, in this

826
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,199
modernity or you know, postmodernity or whatever you want to

827
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:52,360
call it, where we have lost touch with, for lack

828
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,400
of a better term, the other You know, whether you

829
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,239
want to define that as spiritual or whether you want

830
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,880
to define that as you know, whatever and the other

831
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,119
intelligence or the other force or the other energy that

832
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:08,400
isn't us, And throughout history we weren't so disconnected. And

833
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,159
I always and I mentioned it one hundred times, and

834
00:41:10,199 --> 00:41:12,000
people who listen to the show regularly probably seek to

835
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,719
me talking about it. But I always talk about fairy

836
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:19,519
faith in Ireland, where there was a very clear understanding

837
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,519
that was taught through the folkal or through the faith,

838
00:41:24,679 --> 00:41:27,440
of how you should and shouldn't deal with the other

839
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,199
you know, the times you shouldn't go out during the year,

840
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,079
you know, when it was dangerous, and how it was

841
00:41:33,159 --> 00:41:35,320
better not to engage it. But if you ended up

842
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,639
engaging at what were the protocols? And there was a

843
00:41:37,679 --> 00:41:43,719
real understanding of what it meant to encounter another advanced

844
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:48,320
intelligence which wasn't human, you know. But today nobody's taught that.

845
00:41:48,519 --> 00:41:51,119
Churches don't even well, most churches don't even teach that.

846
00:41:51,159 --> 00:41:54,480
There's no idea of how you're what's the rule book

847
00:41:54,599 --> 00:41:58,280
for when you bump into something which isn't us. When

848
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,880
when you're little, hopefully your peers, it's taught you strange

849
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:02,840
a danger, so you knew what the rules were of

850
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,280
you know, some creepy go in and overcoat approached you

851
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:06,960
in a park and wanted to talk to you. Right,

852
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,360
you run and scream, but you're not taught when you're

853
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:10,960
a little kid. Well, if you know, you wake up

854
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:12,239
in the middle of the night and there's a weird

855
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:13,719
figure at the end of your bed, or if you're

856
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,360
walking home from Billy's house across the on the other

857
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,920
side of your forty acre back a lot late at

858
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,320
night you see a weird little man, you know, there's

859
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,320
never any This is how you should behave when you

860
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,920
encounter these things, and we don't know, we don't have

861
00:42:27,079 --> 00:42:30,079
any And even even modern religions don't really teach you

862
00:42:30,159 --> 00:42:33,000
other than you know, maybe encouraging a prayer life or something,

863
00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:35,719
but they don't They don't teach you how to how

864
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:42,079
what you do if you encounter directly some non human intelligence.

865
00:42:42,119 --> 00:42:45,360
But traditionally cultures did. There was very clear understandings of

866
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:46,960
how we went to behave and I think where I

867
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,760
think our cultures bereft of that today. To be honest, I.

868
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 2: One hundred percent, and I know like the indigenous cultures

869
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,440
would again talk to you about how to prepare for

870
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:56,679
these things. It was why it was such a huge

871
00:42:56,679 --> 00:42:58,360
important part of their culture, you know. And I don't

872
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,639
like speaking too much on their behalf because I'm not Indigenous,

873
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,320
but you're right, there was a time, like you know,

874
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,000
back in England, they'd tell you what to do if

875
00:43:05,039 --> 00:43:07,960
you saw a spirit, you know, the churches would say

876
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,679
what you do if something you saw a monster? And

877
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,280
now it's like, you know, if you if you're a kid,

878
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,960
and I remember being a kid going to my mom

879
00:43:15,039 --> 00:43:17,280
with something that I couldn't understand and she's like, oh,

880
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,719
you just imagined it, like you know what I mean,

881
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,719
And it's like, no, what I saw scared the living

882
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,280
crap out of me. And I know it was there

883
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,400
and it was real, right Like I just so I

884
00:43:27,679 --> 00:43:29,880
try when I talk to people who have experiences, I

885
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,920
try to be understanding and open and sympathetic and you know,

886
00:43:35,039 --> 00:43:37,039
offer some suggestions on what to do if, especially if

887
00:43:37,039 --> 00:43:38,599
it's something like dealing with what they believe is a

888
00:43:38,639 --> 00:43:41,840
spirit in their house. But even as someone who's been

889
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:43,800
doing this for so long and feels pretty prepared, I

890
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:45,800
still have stuff happened that throws me for a complete loop.

891
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:47,719
I think I'm as prepared as IM ever going to be,

892
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,519
and then something happens. It just changes my view of

893
00:43:50,559 --> 00:43:53,119
reality again, and it leaves you kind of stunned for days.

894
00:43:53,199 --> 00:43:55,280
So you know, so I think sometimes this stuff just

895
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,239
has that impact on you, no matter how prepared you

896
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:57,760
are for it.

897
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting because you before how you'd spent a

898
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,760
considerable amount of time in the paranormal space, when you've

899
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,519
gone out into the field doing you know, the bigfoot

900
00:44:08,559 --> 00:44:11,960
documentaries and bigfoot research. I know you said you hooked

901
00:44:12,039 --> 00:44:15,159
up with Thomas Steinberg and you know, his crew recently.

902
00:44:15,199 --> 00:44:19,000
But were you concerned, were you like, I really don't

903
00:44:19,039 --> 00:44:21,880
know what I'm you know, were you conscious of you

904
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,199
kind of understood the protocols of you know, dealing with

905
00:44:25,559 --> 00:44:29,000
what we consider the paranormal, like ghosts or spirit beings,

906
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:30,800
but we did it kind of strike you, cheez. I

907
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:32,440
don't know how to what am I even going to

908
00:44:32,519 --> 00:44:34,920
do if I encounter a bigfoot out here in the woods.

909
00:44:35,519 --> 00:44:39,119
Speaker 2: Well, no, I had no idea. And I in the

910
00:44:39,159 --> 00:44:41,800
first episode of Sasquatch Quest. I don't know if you've

911
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,360
seen that, Dean. That's when we're in my colleague Olivia

912
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,239
and I go up to this lake and we got

913
00:44:46,519 --> 00:44:48,639
like we got we thought we were so well prepared,

914
00:44:48,679 --> 00:44:51,119
and we got blindsided by snowstorm, even though it was

915
00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:53,360
like two weeks before Halloween and there shouldn't have been

916
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,880
any snow, and we you know that we got to

917
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:57,800
the location, we had to hike in because of the weather,

918
00:44:57,920 --> 00:44:59,400
so we had to hike further and then we ended

919
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,079
up we couldn't find we were trying to get to

920
00:45:01,199 --> 00:45:03,320
at this cabin because the weather's going to go crappy,

921
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,920
and there's like a bobcat roaming the area, so you've

922
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:08,960
got this physical threat of animals in the woods, which

923
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:10,679
you don't have when you're in somebody's home and looking

924
00:45:10,679 --> 00:45:13,039
for a ghost. And then on top of it all,

925
00:45:13,079 --> 00:45:16,800
we started hearing things from a tree line and broke

926
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,719
out our thermal camera and we could hear footsteps in

927
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,800
the snow of something approaching us and like this weird

928
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:26,239
like growling, clicking sort of sound. And then we picked

929
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,360
up on the thermal camera a heat source of a

930
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,960
humanoid shaped image standing within the tree line where we're

931
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,679
hearing these noises come from. Wow, it would almost like

932
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,800
bluff charges, like run forward on two legs and then retreat,

933
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:41,719
and then run forward and then retreat and we Allie

934
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:43,760
and I both have our firearms license. We had guns

935
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:45,599
with us, Ali we had. We brought the gun out

936
00:45:45,639 --> 00:45:49,039
to load it. And Olie has spent I've grown up

937
00:45:49,039 --> 00:45:50,440
in the woods. I've spent a lot of time in

938
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,920
the wilderness, but he spends like weeks by himself in

939
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,039
the bush. He's a hunter and all this, And so

940
00:45:55,079 --> 00:45:58,000
when he said we should leave, I listened to him

941
00:45:58,119 --> 00:46:01,599
because at this point, you're like fifty five kilometers up

942
00:46:01,599 --> 00:46:03,440
a mountain in the middle of nowhere, in the middle

943
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,440
of a snow storm, and there's definitely something large in

944
00:46:06,519 --> 00:46:09,079
human shape out there making noises, and it's bathing aggressively

945
00:46:09,119 --> 00:46:11,199
towards us, and we're not prepared for that. We need

946
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,719
to leave, and so we did. That was an eye

947
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:19,119
opener because it's like, unlike some things with like with

948
00:46:19,159 --> 00:46:23,199
the ghost hunting, there was a physical threat here and

949
00:46:23,519 --> 00:46:26,039
that's very different than anything else I had experienced up

950
00:46:26,119 --> 00:46:28,199
until that point. And I've been researching you a lot

951
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,960
more since then, and I've had other experiences, but it's

952
00:46:31,079 --> 00:46:33,119
just I think when it comes to cryptid research, you're

953
00:46:33,119 --> 00:46:35,960
dealing with stuff that, even if it is has a

954
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,920
paranormal factor to it. It also has a very physical component

955
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,960
to it as well, and that can do you some

956
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,360
serious real harm if you're not smart.

957
00:46:45,199 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And of course if you were out in those

958
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:48,880
kinds of the areas you mentioned a bobcat before, I'm

959
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,079
not sure what's there, but they could be bare wolves,

960
00:46:51,159 --> 00:46:51,880
Lord knows where.

961
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:54,320
Speaker 2: Well, we have everything in my neck. We have grizzlies

962
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:55,800
in my neck of the woods, right, So you've got

963
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,599
to take that into consideration too, I bet.

964
00:46:57,679 --> 00:46:59,679
Speaker 3: So it's just as well you have you have your

965
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:01,639
lost in Canada and you can be armed. I won't

966
00:47:01,639 --> 00:47:03,239
even go into my back forty, you know what I

967
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,440
mean without a hangout on my hip the case, because

968
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,920
there's stuff here. There's not grizzlies. But we got black bear,

969
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,480
we got Bobcat, we got cougar sometimes coming through. We've

970
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:13,440
got wolf, we've got client, We've got all kinds of things.

971
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,199
And you never know what you're going to counter in

972
00:47:15,199 --> 00:47:18,000
the woods. Letting in a bigfoots that.

973
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 2: Would be a whole other thing on top of it

974
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:23,320
all good grill. We never were able to figure out

975
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,280
what that was, but we just you know, we've since

976
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,239
been back in that sort of the final episode of

977
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,400
this season, the sasquatch question, is us going back looking

978
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:34,199
for answers, you know, in far more agreeable conditions. So

979
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,480
but yeah, I just that was a big learning curve,

980
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,360
and I like, I won't go into the woods without

981
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,039
a without a firearm just for my own person, for

982
00:47:40,119 --> 00:47:41,280
protection from other things.

983
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:45,039
Speaker 3: Right, makes total sense. Flat Rockland, Matt Ackland, a good

984
00:47:45,039 --> 00:47:47,679
friend of mine says, there's a bob cat and Dean's treehouse.

985
00:47:47,679 --> 00:47:50,480
There was a bobcat last summer in my daughter's treehouse

986
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,960
in the backyard. I videoed it. Yeah, it was my

987
00:47:53,039 --> 00:47:55,079
daughter's like, what's in the what's out there? She's pointing

988
00:47:55,079 --> 00:47:56,880
out the window. I'm like, there's something big in the

989
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,199
tree and I'm like a deer couldn't have got up there.

990
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:00,800
And then I look at it rises up, but it's

991
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:02,800
just it's a full it's a big it's a big

992
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:06,159
bobcat as well, Like it's a big one. So it's like, well,

993
00:48:06,159 --> 00:48:08,000
I'm glad we went outside, you know. And I thought

994
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,039
it's going to get the chickens, because the chickens walk

995
00:48:10,079 --> 00:48:13,360
around there, so I went out and scared it off. Anyway,

996
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:17,840
we get very big bobcats, very big. Yeah, it's scary.

997
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,760
The idea that there are things out there that you

998
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:22,440
don't even see over they're there all the time. So

999
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:24,760
we've lived in ten years, I've heard them anytime we've

1000
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,280
ever seen one. They're here all the time. But you

1001
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,760
never see these predators. They're just they're doing their own thing.

1002
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 2: And yeah, they're aways around and they're on't bug you typically,

1003
00:48:31,519 --> 00:48:33,360
Like you know, I had a place at a cabin

1004
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,079
on a lake for my whole youth. We go out

1005
00:48:35,079 --> 00:48:36,960
there every summer and there's you know, i'd walk right

1006
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:38,960
by bears that aren't even thinking about it, you know

1007
00:48:39,039 --> 00:48:40,400
what I mean, But they were there and they just

1008
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,880
don't They don't cause your problems most of the time, right,

1009
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:43,719
you just be smart.

1010
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, that's true. Something I'd like to talk to

1011
00:48:47,039 --> 00:48:48,880
you about for the next ten minutes or so. It's

1012
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,679
just stuff that I myself like talking about. And that's

1013
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,360
your approach is a documentarian when you're doing these things

1014
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:58,679
like there's there's certain there's certain challenges which I think

1015
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:03,320
are unique to the paranormal the cryptozoological space. When you're

1016
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,440
going out to film the type of things that you

1017
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,800
go out to film. What what what? What's your kind

1018
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,320
of approach what's your methodology when you're going out to

1019
00:49:10,599 --> 00:49:12,519
tell a bigfoot story or to look for something.

1020
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:15,639
Speaker 2: Basically, I think part of it is to try to

1021
00:49:15,639 --> 00:49:19,000
be as well prepared as you can. Like when we

1022
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:22,280
did the Sasquatch Quest series, we prepared for like you know,

1023
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:24,440
we were at we had sort of a short window

1024
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:26,519
before we could start shooting it, but we prepared as

1025
00:49:26,559 --> 00:49:29,239
best as we could by reaching by having lots of

1026
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,639
meetings with like the Buckwahs crew and figure out where

1027
00:49:31,639 --> 00:49:33,679
we wanted to go and who we'd want to talk to,

1028
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:35,719
and what the terrain was like and what you know,

1029
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:39,119
what we could expect that way, and so then you

1030
00:49:39,159 --> 00:49:41,960
just kind of go out and you know, you got

1031
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:43,320
to be ready. The big thing is you can It's

1032
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,280
like that old Muhammada Lee quote. Everybody's got a plan

1033
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:48,000
until they get punched in the face. You've got to

1034
00:49:48,039 --> 00:49:50,079
be prepared for something to go wrong and be flexible

1035
00:49:50,079 --> 00:49:52,320
in your planning. Like the episode that just had come

1036
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,719
out at the Sasquatch Mountain Resort actually came together on

1037
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,519
the drive down from Camlin Stairs and Hot Springs. It

1038
00:49:57,559 --> 00:49:59,760
wasn't even originally in the whole plan. It was just

1039
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:01,800
this opportunity that came up, so we had to on

1040
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:03,280
the flight sort of figure out how we were going

1041
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,000
to fit it into the schedule, what we could drop,

1042
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:10,480
et cetera. And then I really like to and if

1043
00:50:10,519 --> 00:50:12,400
I can do it, I do it. First is all

1044
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,599
the interviews I need to do, like sit down talking

1045
00:50:15,639 --> 00:50:18,559
head interviews, because you never know, like you have all

1046
00:50:18,599 --> 00:50:21,000
your questions, and then you'd be prepared for your interviewees

1047
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:22,800
to take you wherever else they might want to take you.

1048
00:50:23,159 --> 00:50:24,880
And that's good because they could lead you to things

1049
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,400
again you never would have thought of. So do those

1050
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,880
first if you can, and then you start going out

1051
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,199
to the actual locations where these things happen, and the

1052
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,000
talking with the witnesses who maybe are going to see

1053
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:36,880
they're doing your b roll filming your investigation. That way,

1054
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,760
I know it journeyed Ape Island, which Alex and I

1055
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,760
filmed in April. We started preparing for it in November

1056
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:48,599
of last year, and we had meetings almost like every week,

1057
00:50:48,639 --> 00:50:51,119
and we really planned it down to a t and

1058
00:50:51,159 --> 00:50:53,079
shared information and try to, you know, just figured the

1059
00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:55,119
whole thing out as best we could. And even then,

1060
00:50:55,159 --> 00:50:57,159
as people will see when they actually watched the documentary

1061
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,480
later this year, and read the book just how that

1062
00:50:59,559 --> 00:51:01,599
even things went wrong doing that and you just had

1063
00:51:01,639 --> 00:51:03,159
to fui able to jump with it. But even then,

1064
00:51:03,159 --> 00:51:04,639
like when things go wrong, you got to be prepared

1065
00:51:04,639 --> 00:51:06,440
for things to go wrong, so you make sure, especially

1066
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,679
going to remote places, you've got like you know, a

1067
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,840
garment device or a SAT phone or anything like that,

1068
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:16,440
Starlink tire repair kits, that kind of stuff.

1069
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 3: I can't wait to see that. I love Alex Petta cooffee,

1070
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,079
such a great guy, so I'm excited to see something

1071
00:51:22,079 --> 00:51:23,039
you guys have done together.

1072
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:25,119
Speaker 2: It was great. He was, he was. He and I

1073
00:51:25,119 --> 00:51:26,920
had never worked together before that, Like we've met at

1074
00:51:27,039 --> 00:51:29,760
like Monsterfest and when he was they were up here before.

1075
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:31,960
But you know, to spend well, if you spend eighteen

1076
00:51:32,039 --> 00:51:33,800
days in the bush with someone, you either become best

1077
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,400
friends or biggest enemies. And we're like best friends. Stuff

1078
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:38,639
works really well, very we work very well together and

1079
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,960
very very similar work ethics and approaches to things.

1080
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,679
Speaker 3: Well, that's good. That must make it, must make it

1081
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,880
an easier shoot. Did you have you been out when

1082
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,239
you're trying to like actually, like you mentioned before, there

1083
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,519
was something bluff charging you. I haven't seen that episode.

1084
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:58,800
Have their challenges when you're trying to film something like

1085
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:00,960
that in the field, like the things you've missed, their

1086
00:52:01,039 --> 00:52:03,000
things like I didn't have ready and there was something

1087
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,039
behind that tree and I didn't get it or what

1088
00:52:05,039 --> 00:52:08,079
what what? What's what about that? Do you think is unique?

1089
00:52:08,119 --> 00:52:10,599
And how do you deal with that when you're making

1090
00:52:10,599 --> 00:52:11,239
films like this?

1091
00:52:11,679 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and it's something that could get you. You're

1092
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,760
kind of like because we didn't know, like when we

1093
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,519
went up there, the whole plan was we knew that

1094
00:52:17,559 --> 00:52:19,400
there was this cabin where these people had had kind

1095
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,679
of was a launching point for these people's experience. It

1096
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,039
was like a Hunter Fisher cabin. So it's remote and

1097
00:52:25,079 --> 00:52:26,760
I've been there years ago for where we want to

1098
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,320
believe episode, so I can't you know. But again, the

1099
00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:31,800
weather turned and then you have stuff start happening, So

1100
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:35,119
you've got to be prepared on the fly just be

1101
00:52:35,119 --> 00:52:37,000
able to start dealing with that. So a big part

1102
00:52:37,039 --> 00:52:39,360
of that is being able to keep your cool even

1103
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:41,800
though stuff's happening that's out of your realm of control, right,

1104
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:44,760
and so you know, like it's if you've got to

1105
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,079
make sure you've got all everything's charged and ready to go,

1106
00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:48,519
and you've got all your batteries. But even in a

1107
00:52:48,519 --> 00:52:51,159
situation like that, the cold, the cold drains your batteries quicker.

1108
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:54,400
So it's just yeah, being really good. And if you're

1109
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,679
with someone, you've got to really be able to trust

1110
00:52:56,679 --> 00:52:58,719
them that they're going to be able to perform and

1111
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,440
they're as capable in those situations as you are. And

1112
00:53:01,519 --> 00:53:02,840
all he is, I mean, like I said, he's an

1113
00:53:03,039 --> 00:53:06,159
avid outdoorsman, very experienced, and he's a BC sheriff so

1114
00:53:06,199 --> 00:53:09,199
he's in law enforcement, so he's on his shoulders and

1115
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:10,639
stuff like that too, right.

1116
00:53:10,639 --> 00:53:16,679
Speaker 3: So Sandy, Yeah, yeah, no, that is very cool. Put

1117
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:23,039
the specific cameras that you needing, perhaps to capture things

1118
00:53:23,079 --> 00:53:26,599
at not or to capture there is a unique equipment.

1119
00:53:26,599 --> 00:53:28,519
Do you think that you might need doing this compared

1120
00:53:28,519 --> 00:53:31,599
to doing a more IUESS standard documentary where you went

1121
00:53:31,599 --> 00:53:33,639
out in the woods trying to capture sessquatch.

1122
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:36,679
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, Mike, I have a camera that has night vision,

1123
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:41,000
we have thermal cameras, we have infrared cameras and infrared lighting.

1124
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,480
We've got like you know, digital recorders with really good

1125
00:53:44,519 --> 00:53:47,320
like you know, omnidirectional sound. You know, especially when you're

1126
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:48,960
in the woods and trying to pick up whoops and

1127
00:53:49,079 --> 00:53:51,440
oxy that definitely you need it. I mean a lot

1128
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:55,079
of that we use for ghost hunting too, but as

1129
00:53:55,079 --> 00:53:57,320
opposed to say doing a documentary where you're just interviewing

1130
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,440
people in you're in a more urban setting, Yeah, you

1131
00:53:59,559 --> 00:54:02,679
need all this other special equipment. And if you're in

1132
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:04,559
the woods, you then want to make sure you're also

1133
00:54:04,639 --> 00:54:07,480
dressed appropriately with you know, like hiking boots and thermal

1134
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,079
underwear and all that kind of stuff.

1135
00:54:10,159 --> 00:54:13,599
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, all of that would be challenging. I know

1136
00:54:14,679 --> 00:54:17,400
I and I wasn't even out in the woods woods,

1137
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:21,559
but I made a narrative short film this fall through winter.

1138
00:54:21,639 --> 00:54:24,320
I thought it would take me maybe a week or

1139
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,480
two to shoot. It took me four months. And part

1140
00:54:26,519 --> 00:54:28,000
of the reason was the snow, because I had to

1141
00:54:28,039 --> 00:54:30,639
set lights outside and I had to do a little

1142
00:54:30,639 --> 00:54:33,199
bit of exterior stuff. I had to light outside going inside,

1143
00:54:33,519 --> 00:54:36,280
and everything is twice as hard at night, and everything

1144
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,760
is twice a three times hard again when it's snowing

1145
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:43,079
or when it's cold, and so the struggle was real.

1146
00:54:43,519 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 2: I'm sure.

1147
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,119
Speaker 3: My girlfriend Samantha, who was a producer on that film,

1148
00:54:46,199 --> 00:54:49,559
is probably laughing listening right now, because it was and

1149
00:54:49,599 --> 00:54:52,599
this is like just outside my house. It was hard

1150
00:54:52,679 --> 00:54:54,800
making a film in the winter. But if you're out there,

1151
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:57,320
like you're talking about, you know, on the mountain trying

1152
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:00,920
to film Bigfoot and the snow's belting down, only imagine

1153
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:02,440
how difficult it must be.

1154
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:04,159
Speaker 2: Well it is, and you're like, you know, we'd hike

1155
00:55:04,199 --> 00:55:06,480
two kilometers from the truck too, because the truck couldn't

1156
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:08,079
get in, So you're kind of like you really feel

1157
00:55:08,119 --> 00:55:10,239
alone out there, you know, and you're just kind of

1158
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:12,840
like and the ground's getting slippery. It's just, yeah, all

1159
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:14,960
these things that just add a whole other level too,

1160
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,239
I guess, almost of danger to the to the procession,

1161
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:19,800
like it's it's not It would have been different if we,

1162
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:21,239
you know, we were just interviving some person to the

1163
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:24,239
middle this field and that started snowing. But just the

1164
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:26,239
hike in and then the fact there's actually something out

1165
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,519
there and we also know there's other predators out there too,

1166
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:29,960
you know what I mean, And it just yeah, just

1167
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,960
created this real I haven't forgotten it. I don't think

1168
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,239
I ever will forget that experience, just because of just

1169
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,559
how and I thought I was so ready for it,

1170
00:55:37,599 --> 00:55:39,559
and then I wasn't. And so when we filmed the

1171
00:55:39,559 --> 00:55:41,280
rest of the series, I was ready for a lot

1172
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:42,840
of that. Like every time I go and film something,

1173
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:44,920
I learned something new every time, and I think, just

1174
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:46,519
get better at it.

1175
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:49,320
Speaker 3: I think that's I kept everything in life. You just

1176
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:51,719
have to keep going and you do, you do improve.

1177
00:55:52,119 --> 00:55:53,760
Last time we had you on, I think we talked

1178
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:58,400
about howt of Us your wonderful book on tracking the

1179
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:00,280
Wind to go. People can go back and listen to that.

1180
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:03,039
But if you want to, I'll show you other recent

1181
00:56:03,079 --> 00:56:06,400
book two in a minute. But people should read this book.

1182
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:07,719
You want to talk a little bit about this because

1183
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,000
it's a great book. We only got about five minutes,

1184
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:11,480
but let's just talk about the two books. I'm going

1185
00:56:11,559 --> 00:56:14,000
to mention quick this and the Lake Monster one.

1186
00:56:14,199 --> 00:56:17,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, her device. It's basically an investigation into the

1187
00:56:17,519 --> 00:56:20,960
Wendigo stories up here in Canada in northern start in

1188
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:24,320
Northern Alberta and includes a journey an expedition up to

1189
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,360
Northern Alberta where I connect with Morgan Knutsen, who knows

1190
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,000
a lot about like you know, the swift Runner story.

1191
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:31,639
Speaker 3: She's amazing Morgan.

1192
00:56:32,679 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, Morgan's awesome. And so it's basically like one part

1193
00:56:36,079 --> 00:56:38,320
road trip story about going up to northern Alberta and

1194
00:56:39,079 --> 00:56:41,719
looking into all these stories. It's a bit of historical

1195
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,039
document about the cases themselves, and then there's a bit

1196
00:56:44,039 --> 00:56:46,079
of an investigation in there that we did into the

1197
00:56:46,079 --> 00:56:48,920
Wend to Go the wind to Go phenomenon because we

1198
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,119
had a sighting near where I live that kind of

1199
00:56:51,159 --> 00:56:54,679
came up. And it's a companion piece to the documentary

1200
00:56:54,679 --> 00:56:57,280
tracking the Wend to Go, which I actually ended up

1201
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,920
to writing and directing as well. And there's even more

1202
00:57:00,039 --> 00:57:03,599
in the film of the local investigation that we did

1203
00:57:03,599 --> 00:57:05,199
that all and I ended up going and doing. But

1204
00:57:05,199 --> 00:57:08,360
it was it was a really interesting book to write

1205
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,119
and research, probably the longest process out of all the

1206
00:57:11,159 --> 00:57:12,960
books I've written, just because of the nature of it

1207
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,039
and having to travel so far to look into it.

1208
00:57:16,119 --> 00:57:18,159
Speaker 3: And that's on Amazon, I believe that's where I got

1209
00:57:18,159 --> 00:57:18,400
it from.

1210
00:57:18,519 --> 00:57:21,079
Speaker 2: It's available from Small Town Monsters Publishing and on Amazon,

1211
00:57:21,199 --> 00:57:24,239
Barnes and Noble Books, a million, a variety of places, Walmart.

1212
00:57:24,239 --> 00:57:25,960
I think you can order it online as well.

1213
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:28,480
Speaker 3: And is a documentary on YouTube or Prime or can

1214
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,159
they can folks watch that documentary.

1215
00:57:30,199 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 2: You can watch it on the Small Town Monsters YouTube,

1216
00:57:32,039 --> 00:57:34,159
but it's also been picked up by Terror Films and

1217
00:57:34,199 --> 00:57:37,639
has been distributed across various platforms, you know, Amazon Prime,

1218
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:41,800
to be Fossome, Chiller, Scare TV, all these different platform

1219
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:43,719
which is very exciting. That's like the first time I

1220
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:44,920
made something where that's happened.

1221
00:57:45,559 --> 00:57:48,679
Speaker 3: Congratulations that they That is exciting. And your other a

1222
00:57:48,719 --> 00:57:52,360
wonderful book, Legend of Oga Pogo Canada's look Ness Monster.

1223
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 2: And it's yeah, basically in way its was the precursor

1224
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,719
because I wrote it first to two track Heart of Ice,

1225
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:04,400
because this chronicles Eli, Watson and Ie expedition in Coloonna

1226
00:58:04,519 --> 00:58:08,400
looking into the Ladogo Pogo story and how it relates

1227
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:13,719
to indigenous lore. There plus cover sightings, historical documentation, and

1228
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,679
I talk about our adventures making the film as well.

1229
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,679
And again small Town Monsters, Publishing and all the other

1230
00:58:19,719 --> 00:58:20,679
places that I mentioned.

1231
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 3: Man, you're so prolific. I'm so I'm always so impressed

1232
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:25,840
by you. It was so much. It was so great

1233
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:29,559
having you on. Jason. I'll have a link to a

1234
00:58:29,599 --> 00:58:32,719
couple of places in the show notes people can go.

1235
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:34,800
But is it any where you want to direct folks

1236
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:37,920
or anywhere else where you'd like people to look or

1237
00:58:38,039 --> 00:58:39,079
check out anything you're doing.

1238
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess Small Town Monsters would be a great

1239
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,960
place to start, both their YouTube and off of their website.

1240
00:58:44,039 --> 00:58:45,719
And then you can find me like one of the

1241
00:58:45,719 --> 00:58:48,960
easiest places on Instagram, Jason Hewlett Official. So you can

1242
00:58:49,039 --> 00:58:49,719
check me out there.

1243
00:58:50,239 --> 00:58:51,719
Speaker 3: That's excellent. I'm going to come back to you. I

1244
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,039
forgot to do my own plog. I always going to

1245
00:58:54,039 --> 00:58:57,079
do it at the beginning of the show. My short documentary,

1246
00:58:57,119 --> 00:59:00,880
The Shave of Mystery is next screening public at UFO

1247
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:03,719
Days Elmwood, which is July twenty four to twenty six.

1248
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,239
It's on the Saturday at six thirty. I believe it's

1249
00:59:06,239 --> 00:59:09,840
screening and it will be followed up by My Shaver

1250
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:12,800
Mystery Part two presentation that I often do when I

1251
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:15,480
screen it. If you're anywhere near Elmwood, Wisconsin, I would

1252
00:59:15,559 --> 00:59:17,760
encourage you to come along. It's going to be a

1253
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,320
blast and you get to see my Shaver Mystery short

1254
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:22,480
and hang out and have a lot of fun. Both

1255
00:59:22,519 --> 00:59:25,559
myself and Samantha will be there and we'd love to

1256
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:29,440
see as many people who are listeners and viewers of

1257
00:59:29,559 --> 00:59:33,719
the Anti Radio Network there as we could anyway. Jason,

1258
00:59:33,719 --> 00:59:35,159
thank you so much for coming on tonight. It was

1259
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:37,280
such a blast having you as it always it is.

1260
00:59:37,679 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for having on you and

1261
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:41,320
I always enjoy coming on talking wed and chatting with you, Dean.

1262
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:43,159
It's a great opportunity for us to catch up and

1263
00:59:43,159 --> 00:59:44,000
shoot the breeze.

1264
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:46,039
Speaker 3: Man, it's great. I can't wait to be on your

1265
00:59:46,079 --> 00:59:47,719
show in the not two distant futures. Well do you

1266
00:59:47,719 --> 00:59:49,000
want to do you want to plug that show quick

1267
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,400
as well? You're actually not my episode, your show in general.

1268
00:59:52,719 --> 00:59:56,519
Speaker 2: Paranormal Theories is on San Castle Radio every Tuesday at

1269
00:59:56,559 --> 00:59:59,599
five pm Pacific, seventh Central, eight Eastern, and it's exactly

1270
00:59:59,599 --> 01:00:01,519
what it'says sounds like. It's every episode is like a

1271
01:00:01,559 --> 01:00:04,000
different interview with different people in the realm of high strangeness.

1272
01:00:04,039 --> 01:00:07,559
We do creepy campfire stories and case studies, et cetera.

1273
01:00:07,679 --> 01:00:09,519
And please tune in. It's a lot of fun through

1274
01:00:09,559 --> 01:00:11,719
Sandcastleradio dot org or they're free app.

1275
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,800
Speaker 3: Man, it's a great show. Until I get to talk

1276
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,079
to you again, Jason, which will be when I'm on

1277
01:00:17,239 --> 01:00:19,320
your show in the very near future, which I'm looking

1278
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:21,239
so forward to, and until I get to talk to

1279
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:25,000
everybody else out there, which will be Same Weird time

1280
01:00:25,239 --> 01:00:30,079
nine pm Thursday, Central Time, Same Weird Network, the Untold

1281
01:00:30,199 --> 01:00:33,599
Radio Network next week. Please keep it weird.

1282
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:52,719
Speaker 2: Good night,