Speaker 1: This is WWE Superstar Drew McIntyre, and you're listening to
Speaker 1: the WWE podcast, the.
Speaker 2: Show, the one that everybody wants me.
Speaker 3: God, we've stood three sixteen said, I just gluss your ass.
Speaker 2: This is my eye. You're gonna acknowledge me? All right, everybody, Well,
Speaker 2: there is no shortage of things to talk about tonight.
Speaker 2: Tonight We're gonna focus on two specific topics, and I've
Speaker 2: got Anthony DeMarco here with me as always every single
Speaker 2: Monday night, to talk about the current events of WWE,
Speaker 2: and we usually pick out a couple of stories that happened,
Speaker 2: and we're gonna get into that with Vince and brock
Speaker 2: Leszer's return. But welcome to the show, Anthony. How's everything going?
Speaker 3: Not bad? Men? A bit of a hectic. I know
Speaker 3: that we had talked about it.
Speaker 4: The process of moving is maybe single handedly the worst
Speaker 4: thing one could experience in their life. Obviously I'm grossy exaggerating,
Speaker 4: but it's completed for the time being. I have to
Speaker 4: do it all over again in sixteen weeks or so,
Speaker 4: but for now I can sit back and relax a bit.
Speaker 3: And I'm sure you know that feeling I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: I do and I thought that was like the worst exhaustion,
Speaker 2: and then you have kids and then you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: I didn't know there was a fourth level of hell,
Speaker 2: and then there is so yeah, but you know, I
Speaker 2: get it, and you know, definitely we'll get through this
Speaker 2: tonight and you know you can get back to get
Speaker 2: back to your insanity. And so let's talk about Vince
Speaker 2: McMahon because right now, I mean, he seems to be,
Speaker 2: at least for the moment, the most talked about thing
Speaker 2: in the world of wrestling, and we all know the story,
Speaker 2: at least what we can know at this point. There
Speaker 2: was an investigation, There is an ongoing investigation with Vince McMahon,
Speaker 2: and the board has put a committe together to essentially
Speaker 2: investigate a three million dollars settlement, an alleged three million
Speaker 2: dollars settlement from Vince McMahon to kind of a hush
Speaker 2: hush type of deal with former employees. I guess one
Speaker 2: of them or both of them, or I don't know.
Speaker 2: One of them at least was a paralegal in the
Speaker 2: organization that is no longer in the organization, and they're
Speaker 2: looking into alleged misconduct with that money and if it's
Speaker 2: found that he's guilty. You know, we'll have to see,
Speaker 2: but right now, Vince McMahon, Vince McMahon has stepped aside,
Speaker 2: not stepped down. I guess that was a distinction, as
Speaker 2: Stephanie steps in his introm ceo. Let me let me
Speaker 2: stop there. What do you make of this whole thing?
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, it's kind of crazy when it comes
Speaker 4: out in concrete info because we've seen the mister McMahon
Speaker 4: character play someone who has abused their power, has cheated
Speaker 4: on his wife, had affairs left, right and center, been
Speaker 4: obsessive over women, and you know, I guess you always
Speaker 4: kind of thought that that was a bit of how
Speaker 4: the person Vince McMahon was, but you always kind of
Speaker 4: like to think that it was just the character and
Speaker 4: mister McMahon. But then when a report like this comes out,
Speaker 4: it really kind of makes you think, like damn, Like,
Speaker 4: was he almost trying to live you know, his real
Speaker 4: life on television in a way, And was mister McMahon
Speaker 4: always just like an amplified version of Vince McMahon, And like, look,
Speaker 4: I read as much as probably you did, but like,
Speaker 4: just just before I go any further, the report, the
Speaker 4: early reports is that they were consensual relationships correct.
Speaker 2: Yes, that they were consensual, yes.
Speaker 4: And that they are investigating the fact that he paid
Speaker 4: three million dollars to keep it hush hush of the
Speaker 4: company's money.
Speaker 2: Right stockholder shareholder mind.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's tough because, like it's just it's awful
Speaker 4: to hear about, especially when you consider that it happened
Speaker 4: in twenty nineteen, I believe, and you're just like, hey, god,
Speaker 4: you know, this guy was probably like already in his
Speaker 4: early to mid seventies and he's still doing stuff like this,
Speaker 4: and it really kind of questions, like it makes you
Speaker 4: question the person. But at the same time, there's a
Speaker 4: part of me that says, like, my god, like, I
Speaker 4: guess we always kind of knew this, and this's just
Speaker 4: kind of confirms what we always knew that the Vince
Speaker 4: McMahon person wasn't completely far off from the mister McMahon character.
Speaker 4: And I guess all that I could kind of say,
Speaker 4: if to kind of find some kind of silver lining
Speaker 4: in this, is that at least they.
Speaker 3: Were consensual relationships.
Speaker 4: It doesn't and again, like they were consensual, but why
Speaker 4: are they completely consensual where there's their manipulation going on. Uh,
Speaker 4: you know, obviously he's a high rank one of the
Speaker 4: most powerful men in the country. You know, I can't
Speaker 4: imagine that did the age come out of the women
Speaker 4: that No, I don't think so well either way, I
Speaker 4: can imagine that a still a working woman that you
Speaker 4: would have to assume is somewhere in the range of
Speaker 4: twenty to fifty years old, would be really you know
Speaker 4: excited to you know, start doing you know, sexual things
Speaker 4: with the guy in his early seventies.
Speaker 3: So, I mean, it just kind of really paints.
Speaker 4: WWE in a bad way, and it kind of confirms
Speaker 4: what a lot of people have always speculated about Vince McMahon.
Speaker 2: What would you say, Well, yeah, it certainly lives up
Speaker 2: to the uh living your gimmick accusation. And maybe that's
Speaker 2: why it seemed to work so well on camera for
Speaker 2: Vince for so many years that you know, he seems
Speaker 2: so believable in what he was doing on camera, and
Speaker 2: he was one of the best heels the companies the
Speaker 2: organization's ever seen, which is maybe why it works so
Speaker 2: scarily well. But you know, look, I mean there's this
Speaker 2: is still an ongoing investigation. We can make our assumptions
Speaker 2: that this is all true. And you know, again there
Speaker 2: is no conclusion on this yet. They are still doing
Speaker 2: their investigations. So I mean, I guess we'll go with
Speaker 2: the presumption that he's guilty of this. I mean, that's
Speaker 2: the only way to do this. Otherwise we have nothing
Speaker 2: to talk about. But if he's indeed guilty of this,
Speaker 2: I mean, the thing is, even if he used private
Speaker 2: funds like okay, say it was proven he did make
Speaker 2: this payment, but the payment was made from his own money,
Speaker 2: it was not from Stair stockholders shareholders money. I think
Speaker 2: that only makes it a little better from the perspective
Speaker 2: of the shareholders saying, Okay, he wasn't misusing appropriate appropriating
Speaker 2: our funds, but he's still kind of a scumbag that
Speaker 2: is cheating on his wife and paid the woman to
Speaker 2: be quiet about it. Now, he wouldn't be the first
Speaker 2: nor the last millionaire or billionaire to do this. It's
Speaker 2: probably way more common than people realize, especially in the
Speaker 2: world of sports, with things like this that we don't
Speaker 2: don't even know exist until they come up. So Vince
Speaker 2: would not be unique in that way. But it is
Speaker 2: given that Vince McMahon has you know, it's taken this
Speaker 2: long for something that does to happen, and you know,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna still say there's a small sliver that it's
Speaker 2: not true, but I'm gonna lean on the side of
Speaker 2: yet probably did happen. And if it comes out that
Speaker 2: he actually did this with funds from that were like
Speaker 2: publicly traded, which I think would be really bad. I
Speaker 2: mean that that would make this worse for him. But
Speaker 2: if that indeed is the case, then I think Vince
Speaker 2: McMahon may have no option, no alternative, but to permanently
Speaker 2: step down as CEO and maybe leave the company all together.
Speaker 2: That I mean, do you think that's even a possibility?
Speaker 2: A guy that once defeated God in a tag team
Speaker 2: match has an opportunity. I mean, do you think that's
Speaker 2: even possible. Say the worst case scenario for Vince comes
Speaker 2: comes to pass and it's found that he is guilty,
Speaker 2: do you think that'll actually leave the company?
Speaker 4: You know you often thought, or I'll just use myself
Speaker 4: as an example, that there would be nothing, aside from
Speaker 4: death that would be able to pry Vince McMahon away
Speaker 4: from WWE and full control both on the business side
Speaker 4: and the creative side. And he's managed to maintain control
Speaker 4: of the creative side even through this so far. And
Speaker 4: we'll get to his promo and appearance on SmackDown three
Speaker 4: nights ago. But I feel like when you're a publicly
Speaker 4: traded company and so many billions of dollars are at play,
Speaker 4: and there's so many people with their hands in the pot,
Speaker 4: and we're living in as such a fragile climate as
Speaker 4: we are today, where cancel culture is a real thing,
Speaker 4: and I'm not referring to that. This would be like
Speaker 4: a victim of cancel culture. If they do come out
Speaker 4: to be true these accusations, I think that they would
Speaker 4: be completely justified for people to be completely upset about them.
Speaker 4: But it feels as though, especially when you take into Aunt,
Speaker 4: his daughter coming in as the interim CEO and chairwoman,
Speaker 4: and how much of a philanthropist she tries to present
Speaker 4: herself as, I feel like this would be something that
Speaker 4: he would.
Speaker 3: Not be able to survive.
Speaker 4: And to be honest, I'm still very surprised that he
Speaker 4: was able to maintain creative control and allowed to appear
Speaker 4: on SmackDown like that for me, and I have no
Speaker 4: doubt in my mind that was completely a Vince McMahon
Speaker 4: call to try and act like, you know, I did
Speaker 4: nothing wrong, and you know, try and get out in
Speaker 4: front of it in a way. But I just the
Speaker 4: more and more they let Vince McMahon go here, it
Speaker 4: just seems to be tarnishing his legacy. And you know,
Speaker 4: we talked about his appearance at WrestleMania, how he botched
Speaker 4: the stunner, how he looks now, the way he kind
Speaker 4: of acts awkwardly like. And this is aside from the
Speaker 4: real life stuff that's going on. From an ons screen perspective,
Speaker 4: I can't speak for you, but I just feel like
Speaker 4: he's absolutely tarnishing his legacy as a great arguably greatest
Speaker 4: heal of all time as far as on screen characters go.
Speaker 4: But now you couple in what's going on behind the
Speaker 4: scenes and now is coming out publicly in real life matters,
Speaker 4: and how big of a company WWE is and how
Speaker 4: many big how much money is at play here, it
Speaker 4: seems like something that Vince McMahon will not be able
Speaker 4: to evade, especially when you consider that a guy like
Speaker 4: Nick con has gotten involved recently and it is a
Speaker 4: publicly traded company. I feel like this may be a
Speaker 4: storm that he can't avoid this time around.
Speaker 2: Even the powerful Vince McMahon may not be able to
Speaker 2: survive this. I mean, Vince McMahon is a guy that
Speaker 2: has survived the courts before, but in this case, I
Speaker 2: don't know if he could survive because of the back lessions.
Speaker 2: Especially as you said, the culture that we're in right
Speaker 2: now is that is sensitive to these kinds of things,
Speaker 2: and for better or worse, we're not going to get
Speaker 2: into that, but it does exist and I think that
Speaker 2: it would be a big factor, especially from a PR
Speaker 2: perspective now. It's also interesting to note that Stephanie McMahon
Speaker 2: and I brought this up, and others have two as well.
Speaker 2: I'm not a genius that thought of this, but Stephanie
Speaker 2: McMahon stepped kind of aside from WWE a number of
Speaker 2: months ago, you know, just prior to that this news
Speaker 2: coming out, and before I mean since essentially the womb
Speaker 2: she was in WWE day to day, involved in the
Speaker 2: decisions involved in whatever. I mean. She she actually was
Speaker 2: selling T shirts early early on in her childhood and
Speaker 2: made her way all the way all the way up
Speaker 2: to the chief brand officer whatever. And the thing is,
Speaker 2: is it a little bit suspicious that she maybe you know,
Speaker 2: kind of saw the writing on the wall. She knew
Speaker 2: it was coming down the line. She probably knew ahead
Speaker 2: of time that there was there's something going on with
Speaker 2: her dad, and she heard rumblings of this coming out,
Speaker 2: and she smartly decided a couple of months ago to
Speaker 2: step aside from WWE and do kind of her own
Speaker 2: thing and distance herself. And then all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: these allegations come out and she's like, oh, well, wow,
Speaker 2: this is shocking. Yeah, I didn't know any of this
Speaker 2: was going on. I mean, maybe from its kind of
Speaker 2: self preservation on her part, or it just could be
Speaker 2: dumb luck. I don't know which one it is, but
Speaker 2: it is just very suspicious timing where she decided the
Speaker 2: moment probably she found out to distance herself, and then
Speaker 2: when the news actually broke, she has some kind of
Speaker 2: soft landing to say, well, I mean, I left a
Speaker 2: couple of months ago to do my own thing. I
Speaker 2: don't know what's going on here. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: who knows. But do you think that Stephanie knew something
Speaker 2: ahead of time and kind of made the smart move
Speaker 2: to get away from the company and distance herself, so
Speaker 2: that when the news broke, she wasn't associated in any
Speaker 2: way with this.
Speaker 4: I mean, like logic would suggest that, right, Like, it
Speaker 4: feels like way too coincidental that she took a leave
Speaker 4: of absence what in late May, and then less than
Speaker 4: a month later this all comes out the only thing
Speaker 4: that would maybe suggest the opposite is that she was
Speaker 4: like placed in as the interim CEO and chairwoman. But again,
Speaker 4: you're right, Like, I just think that it's too coincidental.
Speaker 4: Maybe it wasn't like solely because of this, but maybe
Speaker 4: it was like she wanted a few weeks away or
Speaker 4: she wanted some time away, and they then she found
Speaker 4: out that this was maybe coming down the pike, and
Speaker 4: she said, okay, well now maybe is no better time
Speaker 4: than now. And I mean just for someone like Stephanie McMahon,
Speaker 4: who has been so gung ho about distancing herself from
Speaker 4: the wrestling aspect of the company, you know, a self
Speaker 4: proclaimed philanthropist, all these like how would you say relationships
Speaker 4: with these companies or these foundations like Connor's Cure and
Speaker 4: the Susan G. Coman Foundation, Like I just feel like
Speaker 4: this would be the where this is rather the worst
Speaker 4: possible scenario for someone like Stephanie McMahon. But I guess
Speaker 4: I'll just flip it into a question back to you.
Speaker 4: Do you think that her becoming chairwoman and CEO was
Speaker 4: something that she knew was going to come at the
Speaker 4: end of the tunnel here? Or do you think that
Speaker 4: maybe the board of directors just picked her because they
Speaker 4: truly felt that she was the best person for the job.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that in every organization, especially one as
Speaker 2: large and as WWE is, they have a succession plan,
Speaker 2: like they knew. For example, if Vince McMahon were to
Speaker 2: die and you know he just you know, get hit
Speaker 2: by a bus, they know who's going to step in,
Speaker 2: and that person is Stephanie. Now it also is smart
Speaker 2: from the perspective of creating the illusion or the reality
Speaker 2: that the company is stable with a McMahon in charge
Speaker 2: to the shareholders and stockholders. If it was somebody they
Speaker 2: never heard of that is suddenly the CEO of the organization,
Speaker 2: people are maybe scrambling, have some doubts, some concerns, and
Speaker 2: some of their stock I think it's it is something
Speaker 2: that they thought of ahead of time. Even if this
Speaker 2: wasn't the case with a scandal, if Vince were to
Speaker 2: literally die in his sleep or something that they have
Speaker 2: to have a succession plan, and I think Stephanie was
Speaker 2: that succession plan and is that succession plan. And it
Speaker 2: is smart from the perspective of stability as a whole
Speaker 2: to the public eye. So you know, do I think
Speaker 2: this is going to be permanent? I mean, time will tell.
Speaker 2: Vince is still involved in the creative, which doesn't surprise me.
Speaker 2: He's stepping aside, but he's not really stepping away from
Speaker 2: his work, is what. It sounds like. He's still kind
Speaker 2: of the man, even without the title of being CEO
Speaker 2: and him coming out on smack Down. I just want
Speaker 2: to say, like, I really thought that was like I
Speaker 2: understand why he did it. I understand why he did
Speaker 2: it because it was to send a message to everybody
Speaker 2: watching that he isn't going anywhere. He's not shying away
Speaker 2: from this and emphasizing the word together as if we're
Speaker 2: supposed to just back him on everything. I think that's
Speaker 2: what the message was. And he didn't say much of
Speaker 2: it anything, which really pissed me off because it was
Speaker 2: very to me, very kind of narcissistic on his part
Speaker 2: to just do that. I'm like, dude, you should just
Speaker 2: go back and take care of business. You don't need
Speaker 2: to come out here for your own ego to send
Speaker 2: a message like we know who you are, we know
Speaker 2: what kind of person you are. Go back and take
Speaker 2: care of business. You don't need to come out and
Speaker 2: do this public stunt. That is literally you've said nothing.
Speaker 2: People were just like, what the hell is that? I
Speaker 2: was sitting there, I'm like, that's it. He literally repeated
Speaker 2: the signature video package at the start of the show,
Speaker 2: like that's it. He repeated like four words. I did
Speaker 2: not like that at all. I understand why he did it,
Speaker 2: but I think it was left a lot of people like,
Speaker 2: what was the exact point of this? Vince? You took
Speaker 2: up a small amount of time to do what to
Speaker 2: to pop a rating because you knew that, Oh my god,
Speaker 2: he's there's a scandal going on, he's gonnappear on smack Down.
Speaker 2: What the hell is he gonna say? You know? And
Speaker 2: we got literally nothing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for me, that reeked of him saying like, oh,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna show them that I'm actually innocent and i
Speaker 4: can do whatever I want and I'm not rattled by
Speaker 4: these reports and nothing's gonna stop me. But it's just
Speaker 4: like you literally came out just to tell us that
Speaker 4: you're still in charge, basically right like that, there's no
Speaker 4: other reasoning for him appearing. And I feel like the
Speaker 4: last few times that Vince has come out, save for
Speaker 4: what he did lately with Austin theory, but like when
Speaker 4: it's announced, like, oh, Vince McMahon is gonna be on SmackDown,
Speaker 4: he comes out and he says nothing.
Speaker 3: It's like when he was meant to open the.
Speaker 4: Show, I believe on SmackDown when they first came back
Speaker 4: in front of audience, in front of people, and he
Speaker 4: just came out and he said, where the hell have
Speaker 4: you been?
Speaker 3: And then he left, and I'm just in my head,
Speaker 3: I'm just like, just go away, and look, this.
Speaker 4: Is not for me to make light of what all
Speaker 4: these accusations and what's going on in real life. But
Speaker 4: for a moment, let's talk about vin Vi McMahon on screen.
Speaker 4: Does anybody want to see Vince McMahon on screen anymore?
Speaker 4: For me, it's no, And it's been no probably since,
Speaker 4: to be quite honest with you, probably since he got
Speaker 4: involved with the Roman Reigns and Triple H program back
Speaker 4: in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3: That's the last.
Speaker 4: Time that I could remember, and that's we're talking six
Speaker 4: years ago now or six and a half years ago now,
Speaker 4: that Vince McMahon resembled any kind of version of his
Speaker 4: past self. And you know, I'm not a huge fan
Speaker 4: of Stephanie McMahon on screen, but why not let Stephanie
Speaker 4: McMahon be that character. Why not let Triple H be
Speaker 4: that on screen character. Hell let Shane McMahon be the
Speaker 4: on screen character. But it's just so sad now, and
Speaker 4: there's no other way to put it. It's just sad
Speaker 4: to watch him try and be what he used to be.
Speaker 4: And I feel like, in a lot of ways, that's
Speaker 4: the way it is in real life too, that he
Speaker 4: still tries to be that genius that create genius and
Speaker 4: this over the top powerful guy in real life, that
Speaker 4: he makes these bonehead decisions to like book himself, to
Speaker 4: open SmackDown, to quite literally say nothing and just come
Speaker 4: off as an egotistical narcissist.
Speaker 3: I don't know it's.
Speaker 4: Sad because again, take away the real life parts of
Speaker 4: it for a second. It's said that he's tarnishing his
Speaker 4: on screen character, his on screen legacy, and now we're
Speaker 4: seeing him tarnish his real life legacy.
Speaker 2: It's akin to when people go beyond the wrestling years,
Speaker 2: when you're just like, dude, it's time to hang up
Speaker 2: the boots. Can you please stop ruining your legacy. I
Speaker 2: mean a lot of criticism was hit. It sent undertakers away,
Speaker 2: and some of it legitimate, some of it not. You know,
Speaker 2: when it comes to inn ring and when wrestlers just
Speaker 2: don't know when to let go. I think Vince also
Speaker 2: has that sickness, and I understand it, Like, even though
Speaker 2: I'm not I don't have the size of the ego
Speaker 2: the size of Vince mc mann, I do understand it
Speaker 2: on some left, like when you love something so much
Speaker 2: and this is your baby and you've created it, and
Speaker 2: you have been successful in the past, as you and
Speaker 2: I said, arguably one of the best heals in the
Speaker 2: organ in the entire industry ever, and he wasn't even
Speaker 2: a real wrestler. So to let go of that and
Speaker 2: not appear on screen, I'm sure to him is hard
Speaker 2: to let go of. But I think also he recognizes.
Speaker 2: I do still think he has some self awareness to
Speaker 2: realize that he can't speak long form much more anymore
Speaker 2: because he mumbles, Like you really have to listen to
Speaker 2: what Vince is saying. He just kind of like mumbles
Speaker 2: a bunch of words together, and it's like Grandpa, like
Speaker 2: can you can you slow down? It feels like he
Speaker 2: just at this point should be kind of in a
Speaker 2: rocking chair playing with his grandchildren, like you know when
Speaker 2: I was your age, palll you know, I used to
Speaker 2: be you know, like that kind of stuff, Like you
Speaker 2: shouldn't be running an organization at this age. I mean,
Speaker 2: you just shouldn't be. That's all. It's time. We all
Speaker 2: need to move on. There needs to be a succession
Speaker 2: plan in place, and maybe he is forced out with
Speaker 2: this whole scenario. So do I think he's hardishing his legacy?
Speaker 2: I mean, beyond the scandal, which you will hear about
Speaker 2: the results of that maybe in the coming weeks or months,
Speaker 2: you know, certainly, Yeah, I mean because for a long
Speaker 2: time now, especially with the Austin theory thing, which really
Speaker 2: put it over the top for me, of him just
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, sitting in an office talking about golden eggs,
Speaker 2: mumbling to Austin theory, em masculating a talent you're supposed
Speaker 2: to be elevating all that kind of stuff made no
Speaker 2: sense to me. And also he was not coherent. I
Speaker 2: cannot hear what you're saying, Vince. So yeah, I'm on
Speaker 2: top of the bone headed creative decisions. It's just his
Speaker 2: mental faculties are wearing, as we all will when we
Speaker 2: get to that age, and he just unless something forces
Speaker 2: him out like this and there's public outcry from stockholders
Speaker 2: and shareholders, I do not believe that he will leave
Speaker 2: the organization unless there is like almost unanimous, unanimous movement
Speaker 2: to get him out. So well, I heard that.
Speaker 4: Now, Stephanie McMahon, if she sticks in this role, I
Speaker 4: believe there's Wade Keller who reported it that if she
Speaker 4: ends up sticking in this role as the permanent CEO,
Speaker 4: she's gonna lean a lot on Triple H. No surprise there,
Speaker 4: but Paul Hayman, and that Paul Hayman would get a
Speaker 4: massive role in Creative And let's just play, you know,
Speaker 4: for funzies, the hypothetical scenario that Vince McMahon is forced out.
Speaker 4: Do you think Stephanie McMahon becoming the CEO and chairwoman
Speaker 4: and delegating a lot of the creative decisions to Paul
Speaker 4: Haman and presumably Triple H would be a good thing
Speaker 4: for the company.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean both of them are proven. Like I mean,
Speaker 2: Triple H built NXT from literally nothing. I mean they
Speaker 2: built it from the days of essentially doubled Are to
Speaker 2: an established brand that has credibility around the world. And
Speaker 2: then of course Paul Hayman an established, well documented creative mind.
Speaker 2: Now he's also getting up there in h two. Age
Speaker 2: is a factor here, guys, Like I hate to say it,
Speaker 2: I'm not saying Paul Hayman is completely out of his prime,
Speaker 2: but he's on the back nine. I mean, let's be honest,
Speaker 2: He's not a young guy. But at least in the
Speaker 2: next ten to fifteen years, could Paul Hammond be a
Speaker 2: guy that you could rely on. Absolutely, he's proven. He's
Speaker 2: one of the best problems on the ever in the
Speaker 2: industry ever barn on any generation I put him up against.
Speaker 2: He's a guy that had built as ECW. He's a
Speaker 2: guy that actually created Stone Cold. Steve auser at least
Speaker 2: created the environment to help facilitate Stone Cold to become
Speaker 2: Stone Cold. You know. So yeah, I mean I think
Speaker 2: that would be fine. Why not? I mean, they're both proven.
Speaker 2: Why go with somebody that you don't know. Now, some
Speaker 2: people may say, well, it's even with Vince gone, it's
Speaker 2: kind of the same thing, like the apple doesn't fall
Speaker 2: far from the tree. Stephanie's a chip off the old block,
Speaker 2: whatever analogy you want to use. And there are some
Speaker 2: realities to that. I mean, just because Vince is gone,
Speaker 2: some people think that, you know, all will be well,
Speaker 2: it'll be a totally fresh new product. I even if
Speaker 2: that were the case, where Paul Hammond and Triple h
Speaker 2: each run raw or small her both or whatever, and
Speaker 2: Stephanie's the CEO and Vince's gone and the evil Vince
Speaker 2: McMahon is sitting at home, I still don't think we're
Speaker 2: gonna see a massive change in WWE because you still
Speaker 2: have a McMahon in charge. You still have everybody that
Speaker 2: Vince McMahon hired in creative there, presumably everybody that is
Speaker 2: in the production team and in helping create the product
Speaker 2: that it is today. You still have all those people
Speaker 2: there that are all in the same positions. There are
Speaker 2: no new minds unless you literally clean house and start fresh,
Speaker 2: which they won't do because it's not a smart move.
Speaker 2: If you're a publicly traded company. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: restrictions and things you need to consider when you're a
Speaker 2: publicly traded organization. So I don't think with Vince gone
Speaker 2: that things are just gonna bam magically change. Now. You
Speaker 2: may see small things here and there, but I think
Speaker 2: largely it'll be run mostly the same that Vince has
Speaker 2: run it because Stephanie learned under Vince McMahon. She was
Speaker 2: his daughter, for God's sakes, and she is got Vince
Speaker 2: McMahon's blood literally running through her veins, so she's not
Speaker 2: a carbon copy. But I think largely things won't change.
Speaker 2: And I hate to say that for people that want
Speaker 2: to see a massive change in WW.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I just wonder if stephan McMahon would
Speaker 4: delegate more because she so doesn't want to be a
Speaker 4: part of the actual wrestling aspect of it, right, But
Speaker 4: like I wonder if maybe that would be like a
Speaker 4: hidden positive, that because she doesn't want to be really
Speaker 4: directly involved with it, that she would delegate more to
Speaker 4: people with more wherewithal to be better served in that position.
Speaker 4: But then there's the other aspect about this, and the
Speaker 4: one guy who's kind of becoming the X factor in
Speaker 4: WWE is Nick Kahn, Like I know that Stephanie McMahon
Speaker 4: has assumed the role of chairwoman and CEO, and is
Speaker 4: it technically a higher position than Nick conn who he's
Speaker 4: the president if I'm not mistaken, And I'm just wondering
Speaker 4: here that since he joined WWE and replaced I believe
Speaker 4: her name was Michelle Wilson and George Barrios, I think
Speaker 4: for their names, he has kind of just been like
Speaker 4: taking like a machete to the complete organizational structure here.
Speaker 4: And I think that like in a weird way, like well,
Speaker 4: I don't think it's more I'm just like thinking out
Speaker 4: loud here, rather is like, is he kind of trying
Speaker 4: to clean up WWE and fix it for the way
Speaker 4: that maybe the shareholders and the border directors want to
Speaker 4: take this company into the future. Do you think that
Speaker 4: Nick Cohn is kind of a big X factor for
Speaker 4: the company moving forward?
Speaker 2: Oh, he's already been right, Like you said, he's already
Speaker 2: been a guy going around with a machete, sledgehammer, whatever
Speaker 2: blunt object do you want to use. I mean, the
Speaker 2: guy has had a massive impact, especially over the last
Speaker 2: couple of years of not just COVID. COVID didn't help,
Speaker 2: but the firings, the releases, the shocking releases that have
Speaker 2: taken place over the last two years. I mean, typically
Speaker 2: it's the week after WrestleMania. I think it's like they
Speaker 2: call it like Black Thursday, Black Wednesday, whatever it is
Speaker 2: that week following WrestleMania, where there's typically layoffs. There were
Speaker 2: mass amounts of layoffs the last couple of years and
Speaker 2: throughout the year, not just one particular time, and not
Speaker 2: just wrestlers either, like production, travel staff for obvious reasons.
Speaker 2: You know. So the guys already had a massive impact
Speaker 2: on WWE from a personnel perspective, and I'm sure the
Speaker 2: organizational chart if you looked at it, with the few
Speaker 2: hundred people they have working there, looks much different now
Speaker 2: than it did a couple of years ago prior to
Speaker 2: nickcn coming in. So he's already had a massive impact. Now.
Speaker 2: I don't know what their plans are moving forward, Like
Speaker 2: you said, maybe Stephanie McMahon decides, hey, this would be
Speaker 2: really cool on the first woman chairwoman of WWE, you
Speaker 2: know that kind of thing, and you know she may
Speaker 2: use that for kind of like women's empowerment or whatever
Speaker 2: the hell she wants to do. I don't know, but
Speaker 2: if she doesn't, then perhaps she's just gonna get the
Speaker 2: organization ready for a sale. Now I know that this
Speaker 2: has been discussed for six to twelve months now oft
Speaker 2: they're going to sell it to Disney. Well, while they didn't,
Speaker 2: at least up until this point with Vince gone, maybe
Speaker 2: he was the one roadblock that Disney could not get
Speaker 2: to say yes, and they obviously need his blessing. Vince
Speaker 2: out of the way. Stephanie really doesn't want to run
Speaker 2: the place. She's more interested in doing her own business ventures.
Speaker 2: Why not make a few billion, sell the company to Disney,
Speaker 2: get it, or at least prepare it, sell it to Disney,
Speaker 2: and then be on her merry way and it let
Speaker 2: Disney run the organization. I mean, I'm not saying that's
Speaker 2: gonna happen. I'm not saying that I've heard that's gonna happen.
Speaker 2: But it's in terms of the information I have at
Speaker 2: this point, doesn't seem out of the relevant impossibility.
Speaker 3: No, not at all.
Speaker 4: And you like that's the way that these things sent
Speaker 4: seem to be trending, right, like it happened with the UFC.
Speaker 4: I believe it was Dana White and were they the
Speaker 4: Fertida brothers. I think that sold the UFC to a
Speaker 4: big corporation and they kept Dana White on as the president.
Speaker 4: And it just seems like that's the way that this
Speaker 4: thing is trending here, and the only thing maybe stopping
Speaker 4: it is Vince McMahon. And like, look, they've already sold
Speaker 4: the ww network to Peacock ak NBC Universal, so it
Speaker 4: would stand a reason that maybe they'll sell the entire
Speaker 4: company to a company like Disney. And you know how
Speaker 4: like because let's be honest here, like, do you think
Speaker 4: that Stephanie McMahon definitely not Shane McMahon. He hasn't been
Speaker 4: involved in any major way on the business side for
Speaker 4: about twelve years now, if not longer. It doesn't seem
Speaker 4: to me like Stephanie McMahon is chomping at the bit
Speaker 4: to you know, be her father's successor and carry on
Speaker 4: the McMahon legacy as you know wrestling promoters. Hell, her
Speaker 4: father won't even say the word wrestling. They invented the
Speaker 4: term sports entertainment out of thin air, and Stephanie McMahon
Speaker 4: has really taken that ball and completely run with it,
Speaker 4: So I would think that maybe that's where this is
Speaker 4: going to trend. And Nick conn kind of seems a
Speaker 4: guy who has kind of spearheaded that. You know, You've
Speaker 4: also heard some rumors that maybe The Rock would buy
Speaker 4: it because he has a long standing relationship with Nick
Speaker 4: Con that I don't think anyone knew until the Rock
Speaker 4: social media post. But I mean, I guess before we
Speaker 4: move on to the Brock and Roman thing, the last
Speaker 4: question I would kind of ask you is that do
Speaker 4: you think that once Vince McMahon isn't in power anymore,
Speaker 4: whether that be that he survives this and eventually dies
Speaker 4: or he is forced out because of the scandal, do
Speaker 4: you think the McMahons will move forward as massive parts
Speaker 4: of WWE and by McMahons.
Speaker 3: I guess you could also say Triple H as well.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the WWE podcast. We'll be right back
Speaker 1: after this short break. Welcome back to the WWE podcast.
Speaker 1: Let's get back to more great wrestling audio.
Speaker 2: I yeah, So do I think that WWE is gonna
Speaker 2: move on with a McMahon charges? Was that your question? Like? Yeah, exactly, Yeah, Well,
Speaker 2: I mean, again, assuming Disney doesn't purchase WWE, because at
Speaker 2: that point they could make whatever decisions they want. From
Speaker 2: a management perspective, I do believe again, like you said,
Speaker 2: with Shane, Shane's a guy that I would love to
Speaker 2: know the inner workings of the like the relationship with
Speaker 2: Shane and Vince and and the backstage stuff that's going
Speaker 2: on with Shane, because he seems to be in out
Speaker 2: and out. Things seem good up now they're bad. He's
Speaker 2: back to doing whatever, making shoes in China. I don't
Speaker 2: know his whatever he's doing. And so the Shane thing,
Speaker 2: like you said, that's out, Like Shane clearly isn't a
Speaker 2: good fit or doesn't want to be a part of WWWE.
Speaker 2: From that perspective, Stephanie is a wild card. Maybe she
Speaker 2: is interested in doing this, and she does have a
Speaker 2: little bit of the evil geniusness inside of her that
Speaker 2: you know, her dad certainly instilled, and I think that
Speaker 2: there's a possibility that maybe she actually does want to
Speaker 2: and this is kind of just her evil plan being hatched,
Speaker 2: where not that she set up her dad, but maybe
Speaker 2: again distancing herself, setting herself up for that role so
Speaker 2: that knowing she's in that next line of defense, that
Speaker 2: next person in line of Vince Wertz's have to step
Speaker 2: aside like he just did. Then she knew that if
Speaker 2: I'm involved, well, I can't be involved with a scandal
Speaker 2: going on. How did I not know? So let mean
Speaker 2: distance myself and in two months they're gonna call me
Speaker 2: to be introim CEO, and then they're gonna find that
Speaker 2: Vince is guilty and I'm the permanent CEO. I mean, like,
Speaker 2: it's possible she thought that far ahead. I wouldn't put
Speaker 2: it past her. She's a smart woman. I mean, you
Speaker 2: can't get to that level and do what she's done
Speaker 2: if she wasn't. So there's that possibility. So long answer,
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I think that there will be a
Speaker 2: McMahon in charge when the smoke settles from this this scandal.
Speaker 2: Even if Vince's found guilty, he's thrown out, people go crazy.
Speaker 2: The headlines below up Vince McMahon out of debt, to
Speaker 2: be whatever, which will be a lot of fun to
Speaker 2: talk about. But I still, at the end of the
Speaker 2: day think the last name of the person running the
Speaker 2: company will be McMahon.
Speaker 4: Because you think that even if a company like Disney
Speaker 4: or let's say NBC whatever would buy WWE, they would
Speaker 4: keep a McMahon still in charge to oversee the operations.
Speaker 2: If they were willing. If Stephanie here's the thing. If
Speaker 2: Stephanie's not willing, though, things change, right Like, if if
Speaker 2: Stephanie McMahon has no interest and she truly does just
Speaker 2: want to do her own thing or you know, sell it,
Speaker 2: let Disney make whoever they want to make, CEO, president,
Speaker 2: you know, head of talent relations all that, then sure,
Speaker 2: then things change. Stephanie McMahon, to me, though, is the
Speaker 2: last member of the McMahon family that I think could
Speaker 2: actually be the CEO. I don't think Shane has any
Speaker 2: interest based on just the last twenty years of his
Speaker 2: in and outs and the things we've heard. But if
Speaker 2: Stephanie's not interested, then then all bets are off. I
Speaker 2: think maybe Paul Avec triple h could be the guy
Speaker 2: to actually take it over at or hell, maybe Nick
Speaker 2: con I mean the he could I mean Nick con
Speaker 2: or triple H. I don't know who else could possibly
Speaker 2: step in if Stephanie's I'm interested.
Speaker 4: The Seae McMahon thing to me has always been so weird. Obviously,
Speaker 4: you can't judge a guy based off of his on
Speaker 4: screen character. But like everyone who's listened to me for
Speaker 4: a while, no now knows that I'm a big Sehae
Speaker 4: McMahon fan, But I always felt that he resonated well
Speaker 4: with the crowd. I would argue that he was probably,
Speaker 4: of all the McMahon's, probably the best serve to play
Speaker 4: the babyface role. I know Jim Cornett has said numerous
Speaker 4: times that he's the best McMahon or the nicest McMahon.
Speaker 3: It just really makes you wonder what the.
Speaker 4: Hell went on behind the scenes with Shane, especially considering
Speaker 4: the fact that he's the older of the two, I
Speaker 4: think relatively substantially Between him and Stephane, I think he
Speaker 4: has like at least.
Speaker 3: Five years on her.
Speaker 4: It just really begs the question, like, what the hell
Speaker 4: went on with Shane for him to leave in two
Speaker 4: thousand and nine. Then even when he came back in
Speaker 4: twenty sixteen, it was a large usually only as an
Speaker 4: on screen guy, and I.
Speaker 3: Still think that he got over pretty well.
Speaker 4: Like when he was the commissioner of SmackDown, he had
Speaker 4: his programs with Kevin Owens and not Daniel Brown aj styles.
Speaker 3: He had the matter.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like I thought that he really resonated well with
Speaker 4: the crowd, and obviously what happened at this year's Royal
Speaker 4: Rumble when he was a producer really kind of killed
Speaker 4: that entire thing in the cradle and he ultimately.
Speaker 3: Got ousted by the company.
Speaker 4: But I've just always wondered what the hell went on
Speaker 4: with Shane mcmahn behind the scenes.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I hope at some point before before that,
Speaker 2: you know, Shane heads to his grave, he doesn't take
Speaker 2: it to his grave. I would love to know the
Speaker 2: ins and out of that, I mean, because it's fascinating
Speaker 2: the things we don't know about the relationship between you know,
Speaker 2: the son and father and now the course that's a
Speaker 2: very private, intimate relationship. Maybe we will never know, and
Speaker 2: they both will take it to their graves and everyone
Speaker 2: just say that's none of our business, and I guess
Speaker 2: it isn't, but I think it is very interesting. It's
Speaker 2: fascinating of the relationship between Vince and Shane, because your right,
Speaker 2: Shane is a very popular, if not the most popular
Speaker 2: from a crowd perspective. McMahon. Yeah, his punches and he
Speaker 2: doesn't wrestle the best, and yeah, I've heard all the
Speaker 2: criticisms and I understand that's some degree, But Shane McMahon,
Speaker 2: you know, puts one hundred and ten percent in even
Speaker 2: if he doesn't wrestle the best quote unquote. I think
Speaker 2: that Shane could if he was interested, he could run
Speaker 2: the company. But I don't know if whoever's in charge
Speaker 2: at the very top would want him as the CEO. Again,
Speaker 2: a bridge will cross when we get there. But let's
Speaker 2: dive in to brock Lesner and his return. So, Anthony,
Speaker 2: were you surprised and are you? Do you like this? Like?
Speaker 2: What do you think about all this?
Speaker 4: I'm torn because I truly do like brock Lesnar a lot.
Speaker 4: I know a lot of people hate him because he's
Speaker 4: a part time guy and he always just gets handed
Speaker 4: these main event type of matches and storylines, and just
Speaker 4: his entire career has been a main event served to
Speaker 4: him on a silver platter because he is a massive draw.
Speaker 4: But I've just always really liked brock Lesner. I like
Speaker 4: that he brings like a legitimacy to WWE. I think
Speaker 4: he's a very underrated worker. I'm not as big of
Speaker 4: a fan of Cowboy Brock as I am as classic Brock.
Speaker 3: I like classic Brock Way more.
Speaker 4: But I respect the hell that he's been able to
Speaker 4: provide another dimension and prove to people that if he
Speaker 4: wants to be, he can be a standalone character without
Speaker 4: Paul Hayman talking for him.
Speaker 3: He's not the best, but he's passable.
Speaker 4: I like that he's at least proved that he can
Speaker 4: be a different type of guy than just bouncing up
Speaker 4: and down and looking big and scary.
Speaker 3: But I'm with you.
Speaker 4: I prefer the classic Brock, so I always have time
Speaker 4: for Brock Lesner, and I do think that including Roman
Speaker 4: reigns aside from if the Rock comes back or when
Speaker 4: Austin comes back, or even John Cena, but I think
Speaker 4: maybe he's on the same.
Speaker 3: Level as Brock.
Speaker 4: Brock is like the biggest draw WWE has right now.
Speaker 4: That really kind of and since the business that everybody knows.
Speaker 4: Obviously his UFC background helps, But this just isn't it.
Speaker 4: You know, my love for brock Lesner isn't enough for
Speaker 4: me to get behind this number one. It's just because
Speaker 4: we're doing this again again. We're doing Brock and Roman again,
Speaker 4: and it doesn't make sense this time around because the
Speaker 4: last two times that they competed one on one, Roman
Speaker 4: won he beat him in Saudi Arabia last October, and
Speaker 4: he beat him at WrestleMania, and I believe at WrestleMania
Speaker 4: was clean.
Speaker 3: Was it not?
Speaker 2: Yep?
Speaker 3: So what grounds.
Speaker 4: Does brock Lesner have aside from the fact that he's
Speaker 4: brock Lesner to come.
Speaker 3: Back and jump the line?
Speaker 4: And the other part about this is is that And again,
Speaker 4: maybe I'm backtracking a bit, but I just didn't wasn't
Speaker 4: ready for Brock yet, Like I thought Brock was gonna
Speaker 4: come back like post SummerSlam, because it kind of felt
Speaker 4: like we got like a Brock overload in a lot
Speaker 4: of ways. And I just think we got a Brock
Speaker 4: and Roman overload. And I just I don't know why
Speaker 4: we're seeing this again. I think that they're going back
Speaker 4: to the well with how they start programs with Roman
Speaker 4: way too much like that he beats someone, he's about
Speaker 4: to walk off and then someone's music hits and just
Speaker 4: comes in gets in his face. You know, we saw
Speaker 4: that with what was it when he beat bray Masterio
Speaker 4: edged it that when he beat Edge, John Cena did that.
Speaker 4: When he beat John Cena, Brock did that. Now when
Speaker 4: he beat Riddle, brocked.
Speaker 3: At it again.
Speaker 4: Like, it's just like, do they have no other way
Speaker 4: to start or build a program involving Roman reigns? And
Speaker 4: obviously you have the whole thing with Roman Reigns that
Speaker 4: you know. I know, absence makes the heart grow fonder.
Speaker 4: I get that, But the fact that he's occupying both
Speaker 4: world titles and he's only defended them on screen once
Speaker 4: since wrestling, to me is inexcusable. Not like not even
Speaker 4: out of pay per view, it was just on a SmackDown,
Speaker 4: which we talked about last week, solidified that even though
Speaker 4: we didn't we wouldn't think that Riddle would have a
Speaker 4: shot even if it was at a pay per view,
Speaker 4: the fact that it was on SmackDown, we knew for
Speaker 4: a fact that it meant Riddle was not winning. And
Speaker 4: I just think everything together has just made this very
Speaker 4: underwhelming and it's just a WWE going back to the
Speaker 4: well one too many times. I understood why they did
Speaker 4: it last year in Saudi Arabia because they wanted to
Speaker 4: get presented in a different way with Roman as the
Speaker 4: heel and Brock.
Speaker 3: As the baby face. Okay, I was on board.
Speaker 4: I wasn't a huge fan of them doing it again
Speaker 4: at wrestlemane. But I understood that they were trying to
Speaker 4: make it feel like the biggest match of all time. Fine,
Speaker 4: wasn't a fan. The match was terrible, but I understood it.
Speaker 4: This I don't even understand anymore.
Speaker 2: It really is puzzling. Like you said, I'm a fan
Speaker 2: of Brock Lesner too. You know, how can you not be?
Speaker 2: You know, regardless of the program he's in, he's a
Speaker 2: once in a lifetime athlete, and he is not the
Speaker 2: greatest on the mic, but that doesn't even matter. That's
Speaker 2: how big of a deal he is and how much
Speaker 2: he's accomplished, and the presence he has all that, and yeah,
Speaker 2: what he can do in the ring too, And you know,
Speaker 2: I I, Hey, the guy wants to make millions for
Speaker 2: showing up part time. Are we gonna start crapping on
Speaker 2: Roman Rangs for that? We're gonna start crapping on John
Speaker 2: Cena for that or everybody else that's done that and
Speaker 2: made that path the Rock. You're telling me we're gonna
Speaker 2: boo the Rock if he comes back and say, oh,
Speaker 2: you're part time, get out of here. Like the fans,
Speaker 2: I understand get frustrated at a certain point, but the
Speaker 2: problem with Roman is he is He's champion, and the
Speaker 2: really iron ironic part of this whole thing is that
Speaker 2: wwe merge these belts together, so Roman has a whole
Speaker 2: new set of opponents to work with. He can work
Speaker 2: with the entire roster and show up on raw more
Speaker 2: and SmackDown. Yet he's done, actually less of both. Like
Speaker 2: he's done. They've they've actually done the worst possible thing
Speaker 2: you could do with this, uh this scenario and take
Speaker 2: the guy that won the belts, take the belts and
Speaker 2: take everything and just put it into hibernation and it
Speaker 2: just goes away Like that's the Like, that's the worst
Speaker 2: possible scenario. No, I understand he's working on states and
Speaker 2: Roman's getting paid a lot of money. Great for him,
Speaker 2: seriously happy for him. He's at the point in his
Speaker 2: career where he can work less and make the same
Speaker 2: good for him. That's what I would want to But
Speaker 2: the problem is now you are you are sacrificing other
Speaker 2: opportunities for other people who could be holding one of
Speaker 2: those belts or both if they still want to keep
Speaker 2: it unified by what for? What to hold it for?
Speaker 2: For brock Lester and a challenge again that we know
Speaker 2: he's going to lose for the fourteenth time. You know,
Speaker 2: when they could have easily had a rematch with Riddle.
Speaker 2: Now I understand the stipulation was, oh Riddle couldn't challenge
Speaker 2: Rome again. There's a billion ways around that, you know.
Speaker 2: I think that that would have been a much more
Speaker 2: fun match with Riddle, only because they've they've gotten a
Speaker 2: lot of momentum behind him. People organically like Riddle, and
Speaker 2: they would have had I think a better quality match,
Speaker 2: especially what we saw on smack Down. They have really
Speaker 2: good match, a lot of really believable near falls, i e.
Speaker 2: The RKO that was or the spear that was reversed
Speaker 2: into an RKO, Like there was a moment I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh crap, like he could actually win it here and
Speaker 2: everyone else saught the same thing, you know, and Riddle
Speaker 2: is amazing in the ring. They could have built that
Speaker 2: into the main event of Money in the Bank at
Speaker 2: the MGM in Las Vegas. But the problem is, again
Speaker 2: I think this comes straight from Vince McMahon, is that
Speaker 2: he wants the biggest main event possible and he thinks
Speaker 2: that bringing Brock back is a bigger main event. Now
Speaker 2: in one respect it is, but At the same time,
Speaker 2: you've got this rising star and a star that's more
Speaker 2: believable to beat Roman than a guy that just got
Speaker 2: beat by Roman like eighteen times to come back that
Speaker 2: you know isn't going to beat Brock or beat Roman.
Speaker 2: He has zero chance. I don't think Brock has any
Speaker 2: chance to beat Roman at Money in the Bank versus Riddle,
Speaker 2: who you can make an argument, Hey, he's an up
Speaker 2: becoming star. That's what you want to do with the
Speaker 2: person that beats Roman is have a guy that's on
Speaker 2: the rise, has a momentum behind him, he's young, check
Speaker 2: check check. Riddle has a okay chance that you can
Speaker 2: make an argument. Brock has zero chance of beating Roman,
Speaker 2: And so you take that element of surprise away from it.
Speaker 2: And I think he brought back Brock earlier than maybe
Speaker 2: he wanted, especially if Randy Orton truly is out for
Speaker 2: the next you know, I don't know how long, apparently
Speaker 2: till the end of the year. I've heard a lot
Speaker 2: of different things, but I don't know if this is
Speaker 2: gonna be the end of it with Brock and Roman.
Speaker 2: I mean, they got SummerSlam next. What are they gonna do?
Speaker 2: Just have Brock Lezer go away and then I don't
Speaker 2: think so. I think I think we could see like
Speaker 2: part seven of this, of this matchup with Brock and
Speaker 2: Roman at SummerSlam. Like I'm not saying it's gonna happen,
Speaker 2: but Brock isn't back just for this kind of b
Speaker 2: pay per view. I think he's back through Summer Slam,
Speaker 2: and it could be Roman reigns for both both times.
Speaker 4: Well, that's the thing I wanted to ask, like, is
Speaker 4: it for money in the bank, because I thought I
Speaker 4: saw something that said that he came back to challenge
Speaker 4: Roman for SummerSlam.
Speaker 3: H that they're just gonna skip over.
Speaker 4: I like, don't quote me on that, but and I'm
Speaker 4: pretty sure it's for a last man standing match. I
Speaker 4: saw that, So like, I'm pretty sure, like you could
Speaker 4: double check this for me, that they booked this for
Speaker 4: Summer Slam, Oh my god, and they're just gonna leap
Speaker 4: frog money in the bank. And assuming that's accurate and
Speaker 4: I'm not completely messing this up, you're basically holding that
Speaker 4: title hostage or both titles hostage for.
Speaker 3: Two months, yep.
Speaker 4: And we know that for two months, nobody's even going
Speaker 4: to get involved in the world championship picture or the
Speaker 4: undisputed championship picture. Forget having a match for it, forget
Speaker 4: having you know, winning it. There's gonna be nobody even
Speaker 4: stepping up to Roman for the entire summer because they've
Speaker 4: already decided.
Speaker 3: Two months in evance. It's Roman versus Brock.
Speaker 4: For what reason, no other than Vince feels like that's
Speaker 4: the biggest match that he could put together, and that's why, Like,
Speaker 4: maybe I was overly negative with Roman from the onset
Speaker 4: when he won the two championships at WrestleMania, but I
Speaker 4: felt like, this is the way that it was going,
Speaker 4: that these champions were just gonna go into hibernation. And look, again,
Speaker 4: maybe I'm talking about both sides out of my mouth,
Speaker 4: because when Brock was Universal Champion on Monday Night Raw
Speaker 4: back in twenty seventeen or whatever it was, I didn't mind.
Speaker 3: It as much.
Speaker 4: But part of that was because you had guys like
Speaker 4: aj Styles and Daniel Brian carrying the other world championship
Speaker 4: over on SmackDown, so it still felt kind of legitimate
Speaker 4: that there was at least one world championship.
Speaker 3: In the mix.
Speaker 4: And to be honest, I feel like Brock back then
Speaker 4: competed more than Roman is now, and that's crazy to say,
Speaker 4: Like you had Brock defending the Universal Championship at pay
Speaker 4: per views like Great Balls of Fire and Battleground and
Speaker 4: stuff like that, and this you don't even have Roman.
Speaker 3: Competing at any pay per view.
Speaker 4: And for me, it's just the fact that you've brought
Speaker 4: back another part timer to go head to head with
Speaker 4: him for like the fifteenth time. It's like it's absolutely crazy,
Speaker 4: and it's it's like, how am I supposed to invest
Speaker 4: in this anymore? Like unless it is like this incredible
Speaker 4: long term booking that Seth is gonna win money in
Speaker 4: the bank and then cash in on Roman and Brock again,
Speaker 4: you know, akin to what happened seven years ago. But
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not giving WWE that much credit, especially
Speaker 4: with the way that they've booked Seth in terms of
Speaker 4: wins and losses over the last twelve months.
Speaker 3: So I mean.
Speaker 4: Anything short of that and assuming I don't know if
Speaker 4: you're able to double check it, but like assuming that
Speaker 4: this is just booked for SummerSlam and they're completely leapfrogging
Speaker 4: money in the bank and everything in between.
Speaker 3: You know, I just I'm not very high on this.
Speaker 2: No, I'd just read a few articles that did say that.
Speaker 2: I mean that that apparently I did to see the
Speaker 2: last man standing. I just didn't see the venue. I
Speaker 2: thought it was money in the bank. It does look
Speaker 2: like that is slated for SummerSlam. And if that, if
Speaker 2: that holds true, that is again, like you said, another
Speaker 2: sixty days tacked onto his six hundred and fifty, so
Speaker 2: he'll be at what like seven hundred and ten days
Speaker 2: as champion and at that point you're three quarters of
Speaker 2: the way there, roughly two the thousand days. And I
Speaker 2: keep harping on that, but I can foresee them just
Speaker 2: doing that, and can just because they're like, well, guys,
Speaker 2: when are we gonna have this opportunity again to have
Speaker 2: a thousand days? Like, to me, that's such narrow minded booking.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but the only the only hope we have
Speaker 2: is exactly what you said, the money in the bank winner,
Speaker 2: whether it's Drew or Seth. Yeah, because I think those
Speaker 2: are really the only two that have a legitimate argument
Speaker 2: to win that match, which I probably think it'll actually
Speaker 2: be Drew because then he'll challenge Roman for Clash at
Speaker 2: the Castle, I'd imagine, unless he wins some other way
Speaker 2: to challenge Roman, but you already know at least through
Speaker 2: Clash at the Castle with Drew in September, Like Roman's
Speaker 2: gonna hold a belt at least another three months to
Speaker 2: get to Rome, or to get to bra sorry, to
Speaker 2: get to Drew. There's there's there's like the same cast
Speaker 2: of characters here. To get from Toro versus Drew at
Speaker 2: Clash in the Castle, you gotta go another three months.
Speaker 2: And it's just absurd that we already know the next
Speaker 2: quarter of a year there is no chance of anyone
Speaker 2: taking the belt from Roman. Like that's I think the
Speaker 2: biggest problem I've had with this run. And I've been
Speaker 2: a big proponent of this run. I have, and I've
Speaker 2: sat here and defended him more than most, and you know,
Speaker 2: for better worse, that is what it is. It's very
Speaker 2: subjective here, But the biggest problem I've had over the
Speaker 2: two years almost that he's been champion, and look out
Speaker 2: for them harping on that at SummerSlam. By the way,
Speaker 2: for two years he's been champion. The biggest complaint I've
Speaker 2: had is that every nearly every opponent he's had, you've
Speaker 2: never really believed that they could beat Roman. Like they
Speaker 2: they've Kevin Owens even it's you know, in his four
Speaker 2: matches or whatever he had, there was maybe one of
Speaker 2: the matches You're like maybe, But at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, you're you're never thinking, oh my god, they're
Speaker 2: probably gonna be the one to beat Roman, and then
Speaker 2: they don't. You're like, oh man, they had the chance.
Speaker 2: Nobody there's been nobody, Cizarro, the Demon, Finn Baler, Kevin Owens,
Speaker 2: obviously brock Lester. You know, anytime he challenges Roman has
Speaker 2: no chance. You know, he faced John Cena. You knew
Speaker 2: while there was some speculation he's a part time guy.
Speaker 2: Doesn't make sense, legend doesn't need it, he doesn't make
Speaker 2: He's not gonna get it, you know, the rock he
Speaker 2: comes back. You know, it doesn't make sense. It's all
Speaker 2: just nostalgic matches and just like video game matches that
Speaker 2: people are are thinking themselves, yeah, there's no chance, like
Speaker 2: this is it's cool that these matches are happening. But unfortunately, guys,
Speaker 2: we know the outcome, like we we already know Romans
Speaker 2: retaining because it doesn't make sense for this person to win.
Speaker 2: That's the been the biggest complaint I've had with his
Speaker 2: entire run. Is that ninety percent of his opponents you
Speaker 2: just going, yeah, it's gonna be a fun match, but
Speaker 2: there's no way they're winning that. That's that's a terrible
Speaker 2: way to have a title run.
Speaker 4: I think the only time that I really thought that
Speaker 4: maybe he would lose was WrestleMania thirty seven in the
Speaker 4: triple Threat match with Daniel Bryan Edge. That's and once
Speaker 4: he beat them, and I still picked Roman to retain,
Speaker 4: But that was the one time where I wasn't one
Speaker 4: hundred percent confident. But you're right, like Ray Masterio, no
Speaker 4: Edge the second time, and money in the bank, no Sina.
Speaker 4: I mean somewhat, I said, like maybe they'll give Sena
Speaker 4: his seventeenth world title to pass pass Flair and then
Speaker 4: he'll drop it back to Roman. But I mean the
Speaker 4: way that they booked him versus Sena was embarrassing. The
Speaker 4: Brock thing obviously, like him winning at WrestleMania was the
Speaker 4: most clear cut outcome we've ever seen, arguably at WrestleMania,
Speaker 4: and we knew that he was gonna beat Riddle on SmackDown,
Speaker 4: and like, I don't know if I'm missing anyone in there. Obviously,
Speaker 4: Jay us at the very beginning, we knew wasn't gonna
Speaker 4: have a hope in the hell of winning the championship.
Speaker 3: So, like, it is a shame.
Speaker 4: It sucks that, like even a guy like Seth Rawlins,
Speaker 4: like if that was a good match, I think the
Speaker 4: program had a lot more juice left in it aside
Speaker 4: from the fact that it was heel versus heel. But
Speaker 4: we knew that Rawlins wasn't going to win because they
Speaker 4: were in the midst of the Brock angle, and you
Speaker 4: had Seth as a raw guy. So even that we
Speaker 4: knew that Seth didn't have a hope and Halt winning
Speaker 4: the Universal Championship at the rumbles. So, I mean, it's
Speaker 4: very unfortunate that even though it has been an excellent
Speaker 4: run for the most part, I would say, all the
Speaker 4: way up until this year's WrestleMania, I had no complaints
Speaker 4: with it. I would say that it is still a
Speaker 4: shame that for the first eighteen months when it was
Speaker 4: red hot, you never presented a formidable opponent for him
Speaker 4: to go up against.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that. I mean again, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: pretend that I wasn't a fan of it. I was,
Speaker 2: I as a big fan of his run, and to
Speaker 2: some degree I still am. I can respect what's going on,
Speaker 2: but at this point, like fans are starting to lose
Speaker 2: their patience in a way that's not good. It's not
Speaker 2: good heat. It's like people don't want to watch anymore.
Speaker 2: And I will argue tooth and now that there is
Speaker 2: difference in that kind of heat where people just want
Speaker 2: to change the channel and they don't want to even
Speaker 2: invest anymore. Disengagement is not heel heat. I think that's
Speaker 2: the difference that people don't understand sometimes, and so I
Speaker 2: think that that people are at that point. People are
Speaker 2: at that point where they're just like disengaged and they're
Speaker 2: just like, oh, well, Roman's gonna win. It's gonna be
Speaker 2: a good match, you know. So I'll watch for just
Speaker 2: like the wrestling perspective, but I'm kind of disinvested from
Speaker 2: the bloodline. It's the same thing. Roman wins, retains, he
Speaker 2: stands there till it tells people to acknowledge him, and
Speaker 2: then a new opponent comes out just as he's holding
Speaker 2: up the belts. It's like very formulae. It's the same thing,
Speaker 2: and I totally get it. I'm not crapping on that
Speaker 2: and I'm starting to I'm starting to get on that
Speaker 2: bandwagon of like, okay, yeah, I'm kind of done with this.
Speaker 2: Can we just get the belts off Roman so we
Speaker 2: can get Roman in matches that you actually don't know
Speaker 2: if he's gonna win or not, Like, like, to me,
Speaker 2: you've made your point. Roman's a future Hall of Famer.
Speaker 2: He's had an epic run, a legendary run. We get
Speaker 2: all that great heel turn, great success, great execution. For
Speaker 2: the most part, point made. Can we move on? You
Speaker 2: are strangle holding two championships unified into one that you're
Speaker 2: not even maximizing or utilizing at all, by the way,
Speaker 2: and you're also holding mac talent that could be taking
Speaker 2: these spots for pay per views that are that oftentimes
Speaker 2: don't even have a world title match because Roman's not there.
Speaker 2: I mean, so there's there's to me, the negatives finally
Speaker 2: outweigh the positives of Roman holding those belts. I just
Speaker 2: I'm there now, and it.
Speaker 4: Sucks because they had something amazing, but it's just they
Speaker 4: had to exaggerate, they had to push it.
Speaker 3: And by day I mean vince that like you know.
Speaker 4: I could see it just like oh you see, like
Speaker 4: now they're behind Roman.
Speaker 3: Now I'm gonna give them what they want.
Speaker 4: And it's just like no, like why can't he just
Speaker 4: be a top wrestler, but like not above and beyond
Speaker 4: and head and shoulders above everyone else, like even Stone
Speaker 4: Cold Steve Austin back in the day wasn't pushed like this,
Speaker 4: like you know, like even Stone Cold when he was
Speaker 4: on top, at least you had that one guy in
Speaker 4: the Rock or to a bit lesser of extent, Triple
Speaker 4: H that like when they would go head to head
Speaker 4: with Austin, you would think, like, damn, maybe they could
Speaker 4: beat him, and sometimes they did. Triple H beat him
Speaker 4: in the Three Stages of Hell Match.
Speaker 2: The all Time, by the way, I love that match, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Exactly, like The Rock beat him at WrestleMania nineteen.
Speaker 3: Obviously a different context, but he still beat him.
Speaker 4: Like you when the Rock was the world champion and
Speaker 4: Austin was out two thousand, the Rock was the top guy,
Speaker 4: like Kurt Angle beat him at No Way Out in
Speaker 4: two thousand or no sorry it was No Mercy two thousand.
Speaker 4: Like these are things sometimes that have to happen, and
Speaker 4: I could guarantee you that guys like the Rock, guys
Speaker 4: like Austin, even a guy like John Cena, and you know,
Speaker 4: he was pushed as Super Sena for a long time,
Speaker 4: but never to this extent that like it pays sometimes
Speaker 4: to have them lose, and it pays sometimes.
Speaker 3: For them to have that redemption story.
Speaker 4: Like I think one of the things that really helped
Speaker 4: Sena and I don't know if you remember this, but
Speaker 4: like in the year twenty twelve when he lost to
Speaker 4: the Rock at WrestleMania twenty eight and then he was
Speaker 4: just a losing match after match after match after match,
Speaker 4: and twenty twelve, all Sena did was lose and he
Speaker 4: had a failed cash in money in the bank briefcase.
Speaker 4: And then in twenty thirteen he won the Rumble and
Speaker 4: he beat the Rock at the at Wrestling in twenty
Speaker 4: nine and even though it wasn't my favorite thing in
Speaker 4: the world, I think it got a lot more people
Speaker 4: behind John Cena again because they did have him face
Speaker 4: some form of adversity and could you imagine like Roman
Speaker 4: losing a match and coming out like a month later
Speaker 4: more vicious than ever because he did finally lose, like
Speaker 4: they would have a brand new like can of worms
Speaker 4: to open and work with and everyone would be so
Speaker 4: much more invested because we're just like, Okay, we had
Speaker 4: a vicious rome before, but now that he's lost, let's
Speaker 4: see what levels he'll take it to to get that
Speaker 4: title back.
Speaker 3: And they just won't even go there.
Speaker 2: There's there's such a story to be told on the
Speaker 2: other end of this, like we have had, They've squeazles
Speaker 2: every last drop of juice, at least we think they
Speaker 2: have out of this current product. For two years, they've
Speaker 2: been doing the same thing with Roman, and there's a
Speaker 2: there's such another side of this. There's a potentially better
Speaker 2: side of this, or more interesting side of this on
Speaker 2: the other side where Okay, he lost, Now what the
Speaker 2: hell is he gonna do when he comes out? What's
Speaker 2: he gonna Is he gonna like light the arena on fire? Like?
Speaker 2: What is he gonna do? Like the quiet anger? I
Speaker 2: think he could show on camera would be scary good
Speaker 2: and I would love to see it. They could even
Speaker 2: turn him babyface off of it. I mean, honestly, the
Speaker 2: fans are already cheering when he comes out. Some of
Speaker 2: them are He's got a great entrance music, you know. Again,
Speaker 2: I think that the fans have had time to hate
Speaker 2: him the ones that have wanted to boo him have
Speaker 2: had time to boo him. We've We've had a lot
Speaker 2: of a lot of fans, like myself, pent up anger
Speaker 2: for him that I think is now released and were
Speaker 2: ready to embrace him if they ever wanted to turn babyface,
Speaker 2: they could that we could get to the point where
Speaker 2: Vince wanted him to be six years ago winning the
Speaker 2: Rumble in fifteen in Philly, except actually be there now
Speaker 2: because they've gone through the time of hating him and
Speaker 2: now they can instantly turn him on a dime. I
Speaker 2: really believe that. So you're right, it's just time, and
Speaker 2: I think that fans are fed up, We're done with it,
Speaker 2: and you know, I just I don't want to go
Speaker 2: in circles. But any final thoughts on this.
Speaker 4: No, I just it's a shame that we know that
Speaker 4: the world titles aren't going to be moving or have
Speaker 4: a developing storyline for two months during the summer.
Speaker 3: It's just it's just sad and it's frustrating.
Speaker 2: It's right, I honestly don't even know the next time
Speaker 2: they are there in question, I mean WrestleMania, but if
Speaker 2: the Rocks there challenging for the belts got helpless. I
Speaker 2: didn't want to cross that bridge. I mean, we've got
Speaker 2: like eight months until we have to talk about that.
Speaker 2: I would just really hope if the Rock comes back,
Speaker 2: is not for the belts. You and I have discussed that,
Speaker 2: but I really don't even know the next time. I
Speaker 2: would look at a Roman match even again all the
Speaker 2: way to WrestleMania and go, hmm, well, it could be
Speaker 2: this person who beats him. Here There's literally no one
Speaker 2: I can think of at this time that could come
Speaker 2: back and challenge Roman outside of some people in XT.
Speaker 2: You have heard the names, but right now, in the
Speaker 2: current roster, I'll look at it. I go, yeah, there's nobody,
Speaker 2: So just put it on Seth for God's sakes, Like,
Speaker 2: just have Seth win the money in the bank, cash
Speaker 2: it in that night. Let's get it over with. Seth
Speaker 2: is now the unified champion, Like, let's move on. That's
Speaker 2: what I would do. But all right, well, Anthony, thank
Speaker 2: you for coming on tonight. Of course, you guys can
Speaker 2: check out Anthony on his retro show, and this past
Speaker 2: week was from the vault version, but this week, hopefully
Speaker 2: we'll get a fresh, a fresh, new episode. And did
Speaker 2: you have anything in mind, Anthony, or you're waiting for
Speaker 2: the universe to inspire you over the next few days.
Speaker 4: No, No, I actually have one in mind. It was
Speaker 4: supposed to be last week, but it's just with the
Speaker 4: whole moving stuff, I knew that I would have had
Speaker 4: to record a half assed version, so just figured give
Speaker 4: us a brand new episode this week and it will
Speaker 4: be the Rocks run from twenty eleven to twenty thirteen,
Speaker 4: as we will dive into his return and his semi
Speaker 4: full time run that when he came back in early
Speaker 4: twenty thirteen all the way up until WrestleMania in late March,
Speaker 4: were for just about two or three months or so.
Speaker 4: It felt like the Rock was kind of on a
Speaker 4: full time schedule. Maybe not from an in ring perspective,
Speaker 4: but he was appearing on Raw, he was appearing on
Speaker 4: SmackDown almost each and every week when he held the
Speaker 4: WWE Championship in early twenty thirteen, and I don't think
Speaker 4: people remember how often he came back during that period,
Speaker 4: So I'm excited to dive into that.
Speaker 2: I actually I'm glad you're doing that because I actually
Speaker 2: don't remember him there much, but maybe it is foggy memory.
Speaker 2: Because you look at these legacy stars and you're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: but they weren't there that much. But I think you're
Speaker 2: right that he was there way more than we realize,
Speaker 2: and you know that that's important. I think he wanted
Speaker 2: to put some respect on the belts and not just
Speaker 2: be this absentee champion. So good stuff. I'll be looking
Speaker 2: forward to it. And you have a social media want
Speaker 2: to share as well?
Speaker 4: Yeah, as always, you can get me at a to
Speaker 4: Marco twenty five on Twitter.
Speaker 2: Awesome. Well, looking forward to the episode and we will
Speaker 2: be talking next week.
Speaker 3: All right, man, take it easy, take care.
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