WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:02.600 A PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you ad 2 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:04.400 free access to these shows and a ton of other 3 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:07.120 VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain 4 00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:10.759 access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our 5 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:13.759 contemporaneous week to week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly 6 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:16.559 newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with 7 00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:20.079 streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows 8 00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:22.800 from the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with 9 00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:26.719 wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast 10 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:29.000 library dating back to the year two thousand and three. 11 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:33.479 There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than 12 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:36.320 that that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now 13 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:40.200 approaching twenty years of podcasting, go vip and dive into 14 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:42.479 our post pay per view roundtables, our coverage of some 15 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:46.560 of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form interviews, 16 00:00:46.600 --> 00:00:49.840 and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years. 17 00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:54.200 Pwtorch dot com slash go vip. We have a streamline 18 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:56.479 signup form and you can pay with PayPal or directly 19 00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:58.799 with your credit card or debit card in one or 20 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:00.719 two minutes from right now, you can be a VIP 21 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:03.679 member and diving into our library. PW torch dot com, 22 00:01:03.719 --> 00:01:05.120 slash go VIP. 23 00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:21.239 Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Killer 24 00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:25.920 Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for the weekly flagship talking 25 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:27.959 current events in pro wrestling. 26 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:35.560 All right, Todd, Well, let's begin with a conversation about 27 00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:40.480 Sid Vicious, Sid Uty, Sid Justice, Psycho Sid. You can 28 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:46.840 kind of tell when someone became a fan in bart 29 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:49.200 if it was during the nineties, based on how they 30 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:51.799 knew sidbest, what they remember him most as, or at 31 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:54.840 least what wrestling they were watching. When you think of Sid, 32 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:57.120 what name that he used comes to mind? First? 33 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:00.359 Oh, I thought you would go differently. I thought I 34 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:02.000 thought you were gonna say based on how fondly they 35 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:03.439 remember them, because I think you had to sort of 36 00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:06.120 be there to sort of remember him fondly. I don't 37 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:07.640 know that there's gonna be a big difference in terms 38 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:09.319 of like how people remember him, because I mean, he 39 00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:12.280 was you know, I mean people known from Sid Vicious 40 00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:15.719 principally from you know, the eighty nine to ninety you know. 41 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:19.599 Then well, I mean, because there's the w he jumped 42 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:22.599 around because the guy, you know, the guy wasn't terribly reliable. 43 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:24.439 But I mean he was said Vicious eighty nine to 44 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:27.439 ninety one, and then you know, said Justice in ninety 45 00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:30.439 one ninety two, and then said Vicious ninety three to 46 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:35.719 ninety five, and then you know, Psycho said from ninety 47 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:38.919 five to you know ninety seven, and then you know 48 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:42.879 Sid Vicious again in ninety nine two thousand. So I 49 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:46.520 don't know, that's so much of a generational thing. I 50 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:50.840 The first said I knew was Sid Justice, because as 51 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:53.280 I mentioned from time to time on the show, that 52 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:55.800 when I got into wrestling again was when I moved 53 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:59.159 back to the States from Singapore, where I'd been living. 54 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:02.199 And I was very excited because I've been watching old 55 00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:04.800 tapes in Singapore that I didn't realize we're old tapes 56 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:07.240 from like six months in the past. And then I 57 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:09.120 returned to the States and I was back up on 58 00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:11.800 live that w television is supposed to like six month three runs. 59 00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:13.479 I was like, oh my god, all this stuff happened. 60 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:17.919 It was very exciting. And when that happened, it was 61 00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:21.759 the build for Summerson like Tanty one and uh and 62 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:23.560 that was you know, one of the hooks of Summer 63 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:27.479 semin ninety one was the debuting Sid Justice for for 64 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:31.759 the UH for the tag match with with Hogan and 65 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:35.719 and Warrior against the US called the Triangle of Terror, 66 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:41.000 the Sergeant slaudron and and UH and UH General Mustafa 67 00:03:41.240 --> 00:03:44.240 Iron Cheek. So that was where I first knew him. 68 00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:47.840 But I think he's better known on balance as either 69 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:52.360 Sid Vicious or Psycho said, And I would say Sid 70 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:56.439 Vicious is what I think most people call him, or 71 00:03:56.599 --> 00:03:59.360 just Sid, just because he's known under a bunch of 72 00:03:59.400 --> 00:03:59.960 different names. 73 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:05.000 Yeah, yeah, So what do you what do you think 74 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:08.400 of his place in wrestling history, you know, kind of 75 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:11.199 what what tear or category does to kind of fall 76 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:13.039 into in terms of what what he's known for, his 77 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:18.439 level of success, his impact, his UH sort of subjective 78 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:20.279 aesthetic contributions. 79 00:04:20.839 --> 00:04:23.319 I mean, I don't think he'll be like terribly well 80 00:04:23.319 --> 00:04:26.439 remembered in the big picture because he didn't ultimately be 81 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:30.639 He didn't ultimately ultimately end up being a difference maker 82 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:33.199 in the way I think people were thinking he might 83 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:36.240 be at one point. But I mean there was the 84 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:38.279 period there where people were thinking that he would be 85 00:04:39.360 --> 00:04:43.279 a big deal because I mean, uh, I mean, and 86 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:45.199 and he fit for the He fit the times, you know, 87 00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:47.920 like he you know, he's this big, muscle bound dude. 88 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:51.040 Not a good wrestler, but that didn't matter at that point, 89 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:53.480 a bit of a head case outside the ring, which 90 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:58.399 did matter ultimately, And you know, he's the sort of 91 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:02.199 person that the you know that big promotions would you know, 92 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:04.959 would really sort of clamor over, you knows, this guy 93 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:06.839 that just sort of looked the role at that at work, 94 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:11.879 looked the part at that point. What I find interesting 95 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:15.079 about him is that you would think that, you know, 96 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:18.360 with that archetype, that he'd be someone that was not 97 00:05:18.519 --> 00:05:22.759 as well received by you know, hardcore fans, who would 98 00:05:22.879 --> 00:05:24.920 you know, sort of think this guy isn't very good. 99 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:28.480 But that wasn't the case at all. He was the 100 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:31.879 hardcore fan choice back then. I think it reflects the 101 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:35.000 way one of the ways that wrestling business has changed. 102 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:38.040 You know, I myself gravitated towards better performers most of 103 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:40.079 the time, you know, from the point I was a kid, 104 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:42.360 but I really liked to city to speak myself, and 105 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:45.480 most big longtime fans I talked to did as well 106 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:47.279 that were there through that time. Period because you know, 107 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:49.439 fans at that point cared more about wrestler's coming off 108 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:52.879 is as badasses, and he came off like a total badass. 109 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:55.279 You know, the swagger, the way he talked. You know, 110 00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:58.279 he'd come to the ring talking trash, you know, about 111 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:01.040 to murder some porchemo. And there was sort of a 112 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:04.240 Mike Tyson element to his squash matches where you know, 113 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:06.639 he was coming out there to you know, to to 114 00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:10.040 cause mayhem, and that was you know, that was appealing. 115 00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:12.399 There was an energy to it, and you know, while 116 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:14.839 he could say some goofy stuff sometimes I thought also 117 00:06:14.920 --> 00:06:17.439 he was a very effective interview, you know, with the 118 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:20.639 gimmick of speaking softly and then screaming, screaming loudly, and 119 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:24.720 then speaking softly again. You know, it wasn't you know it. 120 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:28.759 It didn't always work, but I thought it it often 121 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:32.120 was was very effective. And you know, from the time 122 00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:35.519 he started heating up with you know, with the skyscrapers, 123 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:37.639 you know, the places that he tended to be the 124 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:41.680 big biggest were you know those you know, those Northeast audiences. 125 00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:43.319 You know, if you go back and watch those old 126 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:46.160 uh you know it was you wouldn't watch the all 127 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:48.199 VHS tapes now, but you know, you watch those shows 128 00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:50.040 from that time period he was coming up. You know, 129 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:53.839 he had the the big reactions in Philly, Baltimore, New York. 130 00:06:54.040 --> 00:06:56.639 Those were you know, some of his big cities, and 131 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:58.040 there's an element of danger there. 132 00:06:58.480 --> 00:06:58.639 You know. 133 00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:01.120 Power bomb was on the top move that era. All 134 00:07:01.160 --> 00:07:02.920 sorts of people have that as a finisher or a 135 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:06.000 variation of it as a finisher, and I would argue 136 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:09.319 that no one's power bomb looked more impressive or more 137 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:12.720 dangerous than sids, you know sometimes because it was often 138 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:15.879 pretty dangerous. You know, he injured some people with that, 139 00:07:16.920 --> 00:07:20.439 but it looked, it looked, it looked very impressive, and 140 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:24.519 you know, it made for a you know, an impressive 141 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:27.600 package for you know, shorter explosive matches. In particular. He 142 00:07:27.720 --> 00:07:30.000 was not someone to you know, to throw in a 143 00:07:30.160 --> 00:07:32.920 you know, in a fifteen minute match and expected to 144 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:35.759 be any good. I can't. I can't even think of 145 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:39.879 a single longer sit match it was good. Yeah, I 146 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:42.319 mean I suppose if it went and looked into it, 147 00:07:43.639 --> 00:07:45.560 you know, I could probably find something that I enjoyed 148 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:50.160 those longer but I can't think of one, you know, 149 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:53.879 but it didn't. It didn't matter that much for that 150 00:07:53.959 --> 00:07:57.319 time period. But I mean, ultimately, you know, as much 151 00:07:57.319 --> 00:07:58.879 at the beginning, he didn't have the career that he 152 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:03.079 could have because he was constantly sabotaging himself. You know, 153 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:06.839 when he got hot with the Skyscrapers and joined the Horseman, 154 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:08.360 he was going to be one of the top stars 155 00:08:08.360 --> 00:08:09.759 in the business. But it just, you know, one thing 156 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:13.000 after another. You know, there was using Harvey Wipplman's urine 157 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:15.480 for for a drug test and then getting fired when 158 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:19.120 Vince von am In after you know, a massive push. 159 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:23.680 There was you know, the squeegee incident with with Brian Pellman. 160 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:27.240 More infamous the scissors incident with Arn Anderson when he 161 00:08:27.319 --> 00:08:30.519 was going to be WCW champion, which led to Ric 162 00:08:30.600 --> 00:08:33.200 Flair taking his place and having what I think was 163 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:35.759 the last you know, really great match of you know, 164 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:38.759 classic match of Rick Flair's career against Vader at starr 165 00:08:38.799 --> 00:08:43.159 K ninety three, which would not have happened in that 166 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:47.759 you know particular setting, if if if Sid hadn't gotten 167 00:08:47.799 --> 00:08:51.519 the thing with Arn, you know, constantly getting released or 168 00:08:51.559 --> 00:08:54.519 fired and bouncing around. You know, I heard you talking 169 00:08:54.519 --> 00:08:56.519 about it sort of like as a guy that sort 170 00:08:56.559 --> 00:09:00.720 of like was missing something, and perhaps he was, but 171 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:02.799 I don't really think of it that as being born 172 00:09:02.919 --> 00:09:06.279 out in the sense that like, there are people that like, 173 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:08.759 you know, like they were given their run, and the 174 00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:10.919 promotion was hoping that they'd make it at a bigger 175 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:14.159 level than they did, and they just didn't take as 176 00:09:14.399 --> 00:09:16.879 with the fans as the promotion hoped that they would. 177 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:19.879 But with said, the thing was that you know, the 178 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:23.720 periods where he would have been most likely to you know, 179 00:09:23.840 --> 00:09:26.840 to succeed h you know, he would get injured or 180 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:30.240 something would come up before we got a chance to see, 181 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:34.279 you know, how well it would have done. And so 182 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:36.039 we never really, I thought, got the sort of the 183 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:38.759 definitive answer on that. And you know, he got world 184 00:09:38.759 --> 00:09:41.440 title runs a few times later on, but by that 185 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:43.799 point it was you know, the you know, in ninet 186 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:46.480 ninety seven and nine sinety nine, those are just you know, 187 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:49.240 like measures to get to something else. Those aren't the 188 00:09:49.279 --> 00:09:50.879 idea of like, oh, we're going to build around said 189 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:54.480 in the way ww was preparing to in ninety one, 190 00:09:54.600 --> 00:09:56.879 in ninety three again, and WF was preparing to in 191 00:09:56.960 --> 00:10:03.279 ninety two. But you know, circumstances Uh, circumstances intervened, And 192 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:07.320 that's sort of the way I think of of of 193 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:11.519 Sid Uh principally is Uh is a guy where he 194 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:13.480 just sort of shot himself in his own foot. But 195 00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:16.399 in some ways I kind of wish wrestling was more 196 00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:18.799 like Sid's wrestling. You know, like, yeah, you get some 197 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:21.480 bad in the ring as opposed to a lot of 198 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:24.799 good in the ring. But I like the feeling that 199 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:27.840 I think people were energized by with Sid, which was 200 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:32.159 wrestlers were you know, dangerous wild cards rather than well 201 00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:35.519 behaved art students, and that was, you know, that was 202 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:37.720 the appeal of of of Sid. It was it was 203 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:39.879 much more of an m a fighter thing where you know, 204 00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:42.159 like you know, you're you're like, oh my god, this 205 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:45.360 guy's going to kill some people. I would argue it 206 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:46.840 is different than a lot of the sort of the 207 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:50.080 muscle bound types of that time period, although there was, 208 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:51.799 I mean, that was part of the appeal just muscle 209 00:10:51.879 --> 00:10:53.240 on people in general. It was the idea that they 210 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:56.519 were like a physical threat from that, but like he 211 00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:59.480 was less like the idea of like oh it doesn't 212 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:02.320 need you know, look, you know, looks so impressive though 213 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:06.519 he did, but more the attitude and demeanor, which I 214 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:10.840 think would have translated even if he didn't have the 215 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:13.799 exact same body type. And as you know what I mean, 216 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:15.960 he wasn't his muscle miner earlier in his career like 217 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:18.799 he only you know, he sort of got more jacked 218 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:20.720 up as he uh as he went on. 219 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:26.480 How do you think he would have translated to today's wrestling? 220 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:30.519 Where would he fit in or not fit in? And 221 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:33.519 where would you recommend he'd be slotted or how he 222 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:36.360 would be used? If you know, you got kind of 223 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:39.559 his peak, you know, five six years of access. 224 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:46.720 I don't think it would translate very well because the 225 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:49.200 the the the key with him was, you know, the 226 00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:53.600 the elements I talked about. And you know, now people 227 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:57.519 fans are so much more interested in the quality of work, 228 00:11:57.639 --> 00:12:00.000 and if you don't have that quality of the world, 229 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:02.799 people kind of get bored of you over time, even 230 00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:06.720 if they become interested for a period, just because there's 231 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:10.919 so much television and if you can't really go very much, 232 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:13.480 you know, it's it's difficult to be like a weekly 233 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:17.240 presence week after week with work as as as bad 234 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:19.440 as sid I you know, I compare it to Wardlow, 235 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:21.360 where like you know, in war there is a better 236 00:12:21.399 --> 00:12:24.080 at wrestler than Sid ever was. But like the hook 237 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:27.960 of Wardlow was similar to the hook of Sid, Like 238 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:31.159 just sort of explosive, impressive looking guy in the context 239 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:34.440 of the roster, and you know, would do a you know, 240 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:37.279 a squash match that looked impressive and sort of destroy people, 241 00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:40.159 you know, with power bombs. So you know, sort of 242 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:43.759 a similar dynamic there. And you know, Wardlow got over 243 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:46.639 for a time period there, but it was difficult for 244 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:48.919 him to sustain. I think for similar reasons they would 245 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:52.320 be difficult to sustain, and said now, I think, you know, 246 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:54.879 the fan base of today, even some of the people 247 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:57.120 that liked him back then, if a you know version 248 00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:59.519 of him came along now, I think the same people, 249 00:12:59.799 --> 00:13:01.480 if they've been watching the whole time, would be more 250 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:03.639 likely to turn up their nose at them now than 251 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:07.679 they would back then because the context of everything has changed. 252 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:11.799 Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next 253 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:14.440 level with a VIP membership. 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PW Torch dot com slash go VIP 264 00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:53.840 all right, A quick introduction here. This is the Waight 265 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:58.039 Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, a special Thursday flagship edition for 266 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:01.600 August twenty ninth, twenty twenty four. And I am Wade Keller, 267 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:04.240 the editor, publisher and founder of the Progressing Torch newsletter 268 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:07.320 and the website pw toorch dot com and the host 269 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:09.399 of a variety of podcasts throughout the week, including the 270 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:12.639 Wayde Keller Podcasts, the Wadekeller Post shows those are free, 271 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:15.039 and also a variety of VIP shows, one of which 272 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:18.679 is The Fix with Todd Martin. I host that every Thursday. 273 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:22.399 We talk for usually over four hours. First half roughly 274 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:25.879 is current events, the second half is the Fixed mail 275 00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:30.000 bag where listeners of The Fix send in an eclectic, 276 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:33.879 wide ranging mix of current events, historical, and just kind 277 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:37.279 of fun offbeat questions that mostly Todd answers, but I 278 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:41.559 join in also a decent amount of the time. And 279 00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:43.759 that is a VIP exclusive show, which you can find 280 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:47.720 out more about at Pwtorch dot com slash go VIP. 281 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:51.399 It is a many VIP members look forward to this 282 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:53.320 show on a weekly basis, and now you get a 283 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:55.320 chance to listen for yourself and see if you might 284 00:14:55.360 --> 00:14:57.120 be one of those people who wants to hear it. 285 00:14:57.159 --> 00:15:01.480 Every week on a semi regular basis, we feature a 286 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:05.360 simulcast of that week's Fixed Current Events show as the flagships. 287 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:07.000 You get a sense of what the show is like, 288 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:09.120 and this is one of those weeks, So let's get 289 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:11.120 back to it. We have so much more to cover, 290 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:13.960 including thoughts on the vincick Mann documentary. The docu series 291 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:17.519 is coming out on Netflix, premiering in about a month, 292 00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:21.480 and a lot more about WWE's lead up to Bashion 293 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.519 Berlin with a preview of Bashion Berlin, and much more. 294 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:26.279 But first we're going to move on to a discussion 295 00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:29.080 about Brian Danielson winning the aw World title. I've got 296 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:32.679 a bunch of thoughts and questions for Todd about where 297 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:35.080 we go from here and the path to getting here. 298 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:38.720 So let's get back to the conversation. I want to 299 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:40.679 start before we get into kind of running down some 300 00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:45.720 of the AWTV leading into the pay per view. Is 301 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:48.559 just the way the news about Brian Danielson and now 302 00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:53.960 we handled yesterday on Dynamite announcing or clarifying or confirming 303 00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:56.879 the way he's gonna handle the title Ragne, which is 304 00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:59.480 he's going to defend it, be a fighting champion and 305 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:02.879 then when he loses, he will not be a full 306 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:07.639 time wrestler anymore. With a little tease that he was 307 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:09.679 going to give up the title and not defend it 308 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:12.200 at all. What you think of a way of the 309 00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:15.480 way w handled it and uh, and then Danielson's delivery 310 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.919 the message and uh and then Jack Perry stepping up 311 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:20.080 and how they how they went about that. 312 00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:23.799 That is a great segment. I thought. Uh, I thought 313 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:27.000 Danielson was, you know, a strong as the sympathetic guy 314 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:29.639 that you like and a is uh, you know, sort 315 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:31.120 of teasing you a little bit with the idea that 316 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:32.639 maybe you won't get any more of him, which is 317 00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:35.000 just you know, there to make you excited that you're 318 00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:38.159 going to get more of him and make the what's 319 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:41.759 uh left of his title run feel film, more fuel, 320 00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:44.320 more pressions. So so yeah, I thought I thought it 321 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:47.919 was a strong close to the show and a uh 322 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:52.320 good way to you know, a good way to uh 323 00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:54.759 to cook coffin Ryan. And I think, you know, Perry's 324 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:58.519 a perfectly fine choice, particularly giving you only have a 325 00:16:58.519 --> 00:17:01.360 two week beild as the uh the guy for him 326 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:05.960 to uh to uh you know, go against and presumably 327 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:09.880 go over before they move on to other things. 328 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:15.240 Do you think jack Berry and Danielson headlines goes on last? 329 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:19.599 Yeah, I mean I think I don't think it's going 330 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:21.680 to be the most anticipated match on the show, but 331 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:24.480 I think, you know, they are good enough that I 332 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:28.039 think Tony will trust them too, you know, to have 333 00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:29.680 a really good match and it's the world you know, 334 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:32.839 it's the mentoral title, and you know, I think probably 335 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.400 the match it'll I mean, we'll see, but I would 336 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:39.400 think that the match it will be the the most 337 00:17:39.440 --> 00:17:43.559 anticipator will probably be the hangman uh swerve match. But 338 00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:47.240 you know it's not it's not aw'smo or most companies 339 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:50.160 mos to have, you know, the guy that h that 340 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:52.400 they just lost the world title put on last you 341 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:54.400 know after the guy that just won the world title 342 00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:56.079 kind of undercuts the world tyler? 343 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:56.319 Do that? 344 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:00.079 Uh kind of big picture with Danilson right now? What 345 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:04.359 value does he have as the world champion in terms 346 00:18:04.400 --> 00:18:09.039 of TV ratings, pay per view, match quality, adding to 347 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:13.119 aw's legacy, their current brand, all of that at this 348 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:16.319 time and relative to what he might have meant if 349 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:19.720 they did this earlier, and would they have really missed 350 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:21.279 out by not doing it at all? How do you 351 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:21.880 feel about that? 352 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:24.759 Well? I mean, certainly they could have gotten more out 353 00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:27.960 of him than they had. As you've noted, he's and 354 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:30.440 has been evident. You know, they've had him sort of 355 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:33.599 losing a lot and been in sort of position of 356 00:18:33.640 --> 00:18:35.480 the other person being the focus and he's sort of 357 00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:39.359 there to try to get over other people and you 358 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:42.079 know it, and you know, oftentimes he's sort of been 359 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:44.119 more of the you know, either the subtle hero, more 360 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.359 overt heal when people just like him a lot, which 361 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:48.799 doesn't end up being a great role for him. So 362 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:51.319 I don't think they've gotten a ton out of him 363 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:54.480 to this point. Other than he's a great performer and 364 00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:56.839 so you get, you know, really good matches out of him, 365 00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:00.079 and he's a cool personality. Having your television, he's you know, 366 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:02.480 more of a star than than than most people they have, 367 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:05.599 but it's an ensemble promotion. He hasn't been been a 368 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:08.160 big difference maker one way or another, and I don't 369 00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:11.680 expect him to be a big difference maker, uh you 370 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:14.640 know during his titleign because you know, he's already been 371 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:16.799 sort of rained the level he is and you know, 372 00:19:16.839 --> 00:19:18.799 over the over the time period, we haven't seen in 373 00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:22.839 aw uta, you know, the world champion typically been being 374 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:27.279 a big, a big driver of business anyway. You know, 375 00:19:27.319 --> 00:19:31.079 it's sort of the biggest indicator of whether aw pay 376 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:32.839 per views are doing well is it's just sort of 377 00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:35.039 how much interest there is in the product generally speaking. 378 00:19:35.559 --> 00:19:38.279 And you know, the exceptions the rule have been things 379 00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:43.319 like Sam Punk and uh instincts retirement and Danison hasn't 380 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:46.880 been uh presented at that level. Could he theoretically have 381 00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:51.519 been a different difference maker at that level potentially, but 382 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:56.000 you know it's it's at this point, it's hypothetical, I think. 383 00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:00.920 And from a title Wayne state sandpoint, how long do 384 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:03.240 you think he's going to hold the title? Do you 385 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:04.640 have any any inclination? 386 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:08.400 I think I'll probably lose it before the end of 387 00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:11.359 the year, but I'm not sure exactly how long they'll 388 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:15.559 uh they'll do it. I mean, just more because he's uh, 389 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:20.680 you know, he's been pretty explicit about the idea of 390 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:23.599 of wanting to get out there soon, or rather get 391 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:25.519 out of there, you know, in terms of a full 392 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:29.359 time before sooner rather than later. So it would seem 393 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:32.160 odd after, you know, sort of making a point of 394 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:35.799 that that he then worked for another year in this role. 395 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:39.960 But I mean, I, as we've talked to him many times, 396 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:42.839 I'm expecting you know, him to you know, to lose 397 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:45.400 the title and maybe take three months off and then 398 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:47.799 just you know, it'll it won't be that different than 399 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:51.759 what it is right now. I'm not unexpecting this to 400 00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:56.359 be a big, you know, a big change in Danielson's career, 401 00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:58.279 even if he's thinking it was more of a change 402 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:01.240 right now. I just there's way, way, way too much 403 00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:03.759 history and progressing of everybody you know coming back and 404 00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:05.559 wanted to continue to work because they enjoy doing it, 405 00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:08.960 and Danielson enjoys doing it more than most of those people, 406 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:11.480 and he's already been less you know, committal on the 407 00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:14.559 idea of like stepping aside than most of those people 408 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.920 were too. So yeah, I you know, I'm not I 409 00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:20.720 kind of grit my teeth a little bit when I 410 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:24.359 hear people talk about retirement, because the idea of that 411 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:28.039 he's going to retire anytime soon just seems farcical to me. 412 00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:31.799 Like I you know, we were talking before the before 413 00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:34.759 the show about sort of probabilities and like, you know, 414 00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:37.680 like barring some sort of you know, serious injury. I mean, 415 00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:40.839 the the odds that he's not going to be wrestling, 416 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:44.720 you know, barring injury in twenty thirty two strike me 417 00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:47.680 is really really low. I mean, I really think the 418 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:50.400 only thing that would stop him is injury, and I'd 419 00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:53.839 be willing to go much later than that, you know. 420 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:57.079 In terms of predicting where this thing ends up, Yeah, 421 00:21:57.480 --> 00:21:58.160 I put. 422 00:21:58.039 --> 00:22:00.359 A pull up on people ge Torch asking for people 423 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:03.799 to say which Danielson match or which Danielson Tittle defense 424 00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:07.920 opponent they're most eager to see. Nigel McGinnis is in 425 00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:10.319 first place of twenty four percent. Well Last Ray second 426 00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:15.759 place fifteen percent. John Moxley, Kazuchikolkata and mjf all in 427 00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:18.119 double digits, and then Darby allan Christian Cage at nine 428 00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:21.960 percent swerves Strickland in a rematch way down at six percent. 429 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:24.279 Does anything I just throw out there surprise you? And 430 00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:27.319 where are you in terms of the matches that on 431 00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:29.880 two levels one you'd most like to see happen. I 432 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.519 know you think there's eight plus years to go to 433 00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:35.480 see him in these matches, but playing out the idea 434 00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:37.880 that the odds perhaps go down quite a bit in 435 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:41.240 terms of how frequent he will be wrestling. If you 436 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:43.160 were willing to stipulate to that, what would you like 437 00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:45.759 to see him get in in the next several months 438 00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:48.759 on that list or anyone that identic glued to. 439 00:22:48.759 --> 00:22:51.000 The pole, I mean, like it's it doesn't matter that 440 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:53.480 much in the short term because even if you're promised 441 00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:55.200 on the eddie, he's not gonna be wrestling very much 442 00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:57.279 like when it comes back for big matches. Those the 443 00:22:57.359 --> 00:22:59.640 sorts of big matches he's gonna have, so it's not 444 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:02.079 really a hurry. And in any of those, I mean, 445 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:05.359 it makes sense that McGinnis would be would come up 446 00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:09.720 high because that's the match, you know, whether intentionally from 447 00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:12.680 a promotional standpoint or not, that that is the one 448 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:15.319 that's been built the most with Nigel, you know, doing 449 00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:17.440 all the discussion on commentary and reminding people of the 450 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:19.279 program that he had with them back there, along with 451 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:21.920 you know, the fact that he put in a pretty 452 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:25.079 good showing overall it all in that I've got people 453 00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:27.519 talking about that. And you know, he had you know, 454 00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:32.920 a a great, you know, phenomenal match with with with 455 00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:36.519 Osprey last time out, and uh, you know Okada, he 456 00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:39.759 had really good matches it as well. Well I think 457 00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:43.799 there were two, but yeah, if I'm yeah, I'm pretty 458 00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:46.960 sure they were really good as well. So you know, 459 00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:49.519 all of those makes sense and and uh and they've 460 00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:50.920 got a lot of a lot of good options. I 461 00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:53.799 don't think there's any sort of obvious you know, like, oh, 462 00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:56.599 this is what you've well you've definitely got to do. 463 00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.319 And I mean Danielson is also a guy where like 464 00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:02.079 he you know, he just wants to work with people 465 00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.839 that sort of you know, strike his uh his fancy 466 00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:08.480 for for you know, for for one reason or another, 467 00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:10.359 Like you know, he really wanted to work with with 468 00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:13.079 Etchi Sero. You know, he talked about wanted to work 469 00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:15.279 with you know, I think I think he's trying to 470 00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:19.799 want to work with minors Zuki uh and and uh 471 00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:24.119 and uh Atlantis and and I remember talking I wanted 472 00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:26.519 to work with with Blue Panther at one point. And 473 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:29.039 so like there's you know, there's a lot of a 474 00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:30.680 lot of people that sort of you know, are appealing 475 00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:33.400 for formal reason or another. I think that's you know, 476 00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:35.279 one of the reasons they're doing the Darby Allen thing, 477 00:24:35.319 --> 00:24:37.680 the two you know, the two guys from the Pacific Northwest. 478 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:41.079 I don't think they've had a match, and so, you know, 479 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:43.400 I think, uh, you know, that's another one that you know, 480 00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:45.279 sort of jumps out at him as just sort of 481 00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:47.920 a fun match from the do. So there's there's tons 482 00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:50.799 of options. And danis and is such a fun uh 483 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:52.559 such a fun wrestler to watch, and he has so 484 00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:55.440 many different styles that he can work very effectively. That 485 00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:58.759 makes him, you know, a good opponent for for pretty 486 00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:01.960 much anybody. And and uh, you know, he's he's also 487 00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:05.200 a guy that can have different types of matches with 488 00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:07.319 different sorts of opponents. There are some opponents who can 489 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:10.039 have a you know, great match with with most people, 490 00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:12.480 but it'll be their type of match, and Danisen can 491 00:25:12.519 --> 00:25:14.839 have great matches different sorts of people. It'll be different 492 00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:19.720 types of matches. So you know, there's plenty of plenty 493 00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:20.720 of good options. 494 00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:23.039 When he hands the belt off to the next guy. 495 00:25:24.200 --> 00:25:26.799 Is there somebody that makes the most sense who might 496 00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:32.359 benefit the most from beating somewhat of Danielson's stature, or 497 00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:35.079 it doesn't really matter if even if it's a transitional 498 00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:37.279 champion who loses it on the next pay per view, 499 00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:40.759 the Danielson handoff isn't isn't important enough to even worry 500 00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:43.039 about who that person is. It's more just what's convenient 501 00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:44.240 at the time they want to kind of run out 502 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:45.079 the calendar on his reign. 503 00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:47.680 The latter I mean, I think I think you just 504 00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:49.759 look at whoever you want to see get the next opponent. 505 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:51.839 I mean, I like, as I said, I mean, if 506 00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:54.359 you're if the premise of the idea is that people 507 00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:56.319 in three years are gonna be talking about the end 508 00:25:56.359 --> 00:25:59.960 of Danielson's career and this guy ended Danison's career, then yeah, 509 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:01.880 you'd be thinking on that context. But you know, as 510 00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.200 I started outline, that's not the way I'm thinking, I'm 511 00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:07.359 thinking about it as you know that that it's just 512 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:08.680 going to be it's going to be the end of 513 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:10.839 Dani's the title on and Danis will still be around 514 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:13.799 doing match some time to time, maybe less frequently, maybe 515 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:16.480 not all that much less frequently, And so the idea 516 00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:18.759 of like, I'm the person that beat Danielson is not 517 00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:20.519 going to stand out in the way that it would 518 00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:23.680 wear a different circumstance. So you know, I don't think 519 00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:27.240 I don't think it matters so much who beats him 520 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:29.720 from that context and his mortgage to question who you 521 00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:32.400 think is is a good choice the next champion, and 522 00:26:32.960 --> 00:26:34.359 you know it's I mean, things are sort of up 523 00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:35.640 in the air and that in that regard and that 524 00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:38.559 you know, aw sort of ram through. I mean, Tony's 525 00:26:38.599 --> 00:26:41.039 talked about how he had his plan for who he 526 00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:42.680 was going to put the title on for the first 527 00:26:42.880 --> 00:26:44.559 you know, so many title ons, and he you know, 528 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:47.319 hit all of those, and you know, from that point 529 00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:49.160 they hit other you know, sort of top people, and 530 00:26:49.960 --> 00:26:52.160 you know it at this point it's sort of not 531 00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:55.440 you know, it's not clear who you know, who's who 532 00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:58.480 are going to be the champions moving forward and that's fine. 533 00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:00.119 You know, they can sort of map it out to 534 00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:02.680 go along. I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure Tony likes 535 00:27:02.720 --> 00:27:04.240 the idea of having, you know, put in the title 536 00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:06.599 on a cot at some point. But other than that, 537 00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:10.480 I mean, I don't, you know, I'm not sure it 538 00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:13.200 will jump out in his uh, in his mind. 539 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:18.039 Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts, 540 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:21.440 will come join me Alan frel Over in the Progress 541 00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:24.960 Paradise at PWOOD Torch VIP as we mask on the 542 00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:27.720 bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the 543 00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:30.720 great matches and shows from around the world, be it 544 00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:35.240 the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place 545 00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:38.039 for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done 546 00:27:38.119 --> 00:27:41.119 fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series 547 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.119 celebrating the glorious career of Jusian thunder Lighter and Our 548 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:47.480 Eye Was There When shows where our guests will join 549 00:27:47.559 --> 00:27:49.880 me to talk about a classic bout that they were 550 00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:53.279 in attendance for. We love variety and you can expect 551 00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:56.480 lots of it at the Pro wrest Paradise. Detailed PW 552 00:27:56.799 --> 00:28:00.119 Torch VIP subscription information and a list of all all 553 00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:03.880 the VIP benefits is available at pterwrew torch, vip info 554 00:28:04.039 --> 00:28:07.880 dot com and yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible with 555 00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:12.039 popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you 556 00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:15.680 can stream them directly from our ad free VIP mobile site, 557 00:28:16.119 --> 00:28:17.160 see You in the Paradise. 558 00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:29.759 As a thought exercise, if Danielsen wrestles rarely after he 559 00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:33.119 loses a title, it like for years to come, but 560 00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:34.920 maybe he comes back in four years and that's a 561 00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:39.119 long run, like you know, Adam Copeland, and you do 562 00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:41.000 want to hand it off to someone, so three years 563 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:43.440 from now, using your words, we're still talking about it 564 00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:45.279 is does that person exist right now in the roster 565 00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:47.799 like we're you'd be like, well, okay. As a thought exercise, 566 00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:51.759 even though I'm establishing I don't think there's a likelihood 567 00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:53.799 of this. Is there somebody on the roster. I'm kind 568 00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:55.359 of curious who you'd come up with that that like, yeah, 569 00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:57.359 if that's the case, if this is a big deal, 570 00:28:57.680 --> 00:28:59.799 it's Danielsen truly the end of his full time career, 571 00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:03.200 a couple of matches every few years at most he 572 00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:05.640 has Again, is there someone you'd be like, yeah, that 573 00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:06.319 should be the person. 574 00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:11.559 I mean I don't think people fans are that concerned 575 00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:15.359 with the idea of, oh, this person beat that person, 576 00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:19.119 you know, to close out some specific thing. I think 577 00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:22.359 that was a bigger deal during the time period when 578 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:25.119 people thought of it as more real and the sort 579 00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:27.200 of the context what's going on to you have, like, oh, 580 00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:29.359 you ended this big thing. It was like a bigger deal, 581 00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:31.480 like you know, people remembering Ivan Coleo Off being Bruno 582 00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:34.359 San Martino for example. I don't think that dynamic is 583 00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:37.880 there as much anymore. But I mean with that said, 584 00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:40.680 I mean there's a lot of talent on the roster, 585 00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:43.240 so I mean you could you could pick a you know, 586 00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:46.400 a variety of uh of people that it would be 587 00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:48.279 good to give them, you know, sort of an added 588 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:52.519 bump of one sort or another, and you know, you 589 00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:56.440 would you would gravitate more I think towards younger people 590 00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:58.920 in that role you know that you know you're gonna 591 00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:03.480 have for a while. I mean, I wouldn't choose Perry, 592 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:05.039 even though he's on the younger side and the short 593 00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:07.519 of potential, I don't I don't see him as being 594 00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:09.359 a guy that's sort of going to be a perennial 595 00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:14.160 top guy. I've talked in the past about about Tekashtra 596 00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:17.240 and uh, you know, you know, thinking of him as 597 00:30:17.240 --> 00:30:19.319 a guy that could be a you know, a top 598 00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:21.680 guy for a long period of time in in a 599 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:24.839 w and still you know, still under thirty. But I 600 00:30:24.920 --> 00:30:27.759 don't know that they they think of him that way. 601 00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:31.559 So you know, that's sort of them, it's that But 602 00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:33.279 those are those are the you know, those are the 603 00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:37.359 people that that uh that that come to mind at first. 604 00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:40.000 I mean, I I don't know that, you know, I 605 00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:41.440 don't know that it would be sort of the right 606 00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:43.519 dynamic with sort of wanting it back from him and 607 00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:47.960 then sort of uh, you know, using that as sort 608 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:50.319 of a talking point with him, even though he's a 609 00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:53.319 guy that they're gonna, you know, have plans for over 610 00:30:53.480 --> 00:30:57.119 the long haul, and uh, you know they already did 611 00:30:57.400 --> 00:30:59.880 you know, they already had mg I beat Danielson and 612 00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:04.200 you know some memorable and memorable feud you know, a 613 00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:05.759 little while back. So I don't know that he would 614 00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:08.599 get a lot more out of going back and being 615 00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:13.279 in Danielson again. So yeah, there's isn't someone that you 616 00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:16.599 know in particular that seems like the one guy. 617 00:31:17.319 --> 00:31:18.759 Yeah, Yeah, I'm with you. 618 00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:18.960 Too. 619 00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:20.880 I mean, I think there's bros and cons to just 620 00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:22.759 a handful of names, some of whom you covered, but 621 00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:26.200 a lot can happen in terms of how they're portrayed 622 00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:28.039 in the next two to three months too. You know, 623 00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:31.000 Katta could get ice cold or a little hotter. Garcia 624 00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:33.039 could catch fire and you're like, oh, maybe that's the guy, 625 00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:34.680 even if he's not long term champion we want him 626 00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:36.200 to have on his record he did that. I'm just 627 00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:39.200 grabbing sort of random names off, you know, off the 628 00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:43.000 top of my head. Those those factors could change. But again, 629 00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:45.079 it is under the premise that it would even matter 630 00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:47.880 at all, because if Danielson just ends up wrestling, you know, 631 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.680 in a way that's not super distinguishable from how often 632 00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:54.720 he's been wrestling lately over the last few years in 633 00:31:54.799 --> 00:31:59.400 the perception of aw fans, then it's not gonna matter. Okay, well, 634 00:31:59.480 --> 00:32:02.119 let's let's just pivot and I'll throw you to run 635 00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:06.400 down Rampage and Collision and the lead up to all 636 00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:08.079 in this weekend. 637 00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:12.960 So Rampage Star with Kylo Riley, Mark Bresco and Tomo. 638 00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:15.359 Here is she beating Beast, Mortos, buying Cage and Johnny 639 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:19.200 TV when O'Reilly submitted Johnny TV pretty good. And then 640 00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:22.480 after that the rest of the show, We're Squashes. Roderick 641 00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:25.000 Strong went to squash of Fuego do Soul. I can't 642 00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:27.599 remember the last time foeg dol was on AW television, 643 00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:31.720 and the answer was twenty twenty two won a squash 644 00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:36.039 over Robin Renegade. Karashida did an interview where she was 645 00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:39.640 very angry that no one cares Mercedes Money cheated to 646 00:32:40.319 --> 00:32:43.160 beat her and angry that she's lower on the card 647 00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:46.839 heading into all in. Obviously she wasn't on all in, 648 00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:52.519 and you know, uh, basically it was pretty clear that 649 00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:56.640 she's turning heel and she wasn't fully heal here, but 650 00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:00.079 it you know, it was it was not subtle that 651 00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.799 that's where this is going. And uh, she's really been 652 00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:05.240 working on her English, which is it's quite good. So 653 00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:08.839 I was impressed by that. And uh yeah, she cut 654 00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:13.519 a uh an angry, indignant promo and is you know, 655 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:16.759 a uh a positive trait. I think of a lot 656 00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:20.599 of heel turns. She had a specific reason for why 657 00:33:20.839 --> 00:33:24.640 she's presumably going to start acting like more of a jerk, 658 00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:27.240 and there was you know, there's you could see your 659 00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:30.440 point there. You know, there was a righteous indignation, which 660 00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:34.480 you know, then we'll move in UH in the wrong 661 00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:38.960 direction presumably. Then we got another squash, gatesw Agony beating 662 00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:41.599 the Iron Savages, and final squash was the one Eric's 663 00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:44.960 beating the odd Runners in ten minutes. And then at 664 00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:46.680 the end of the show they did that thing where 665 00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:48.279 a big show's coming up, so a bunch of random 666 00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:51.119 people ran out and they fought to UH to close 667 00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:55.519 the show. Then Collision started with Mark Briscoe, Kylo Riley 668 00:33:55.839 --> 00:33:59.160 in Orange Cassidy beating Roderick Strong, Matt Tavin and Mike Bennett. 669 00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:02.279 Match kind of kind of odd that they you know, 670 00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:05.319 the show on Friday started with a very similar match 671 00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:06.880 the show that started the show on Saturday, and one 672 00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:09.679 was in Texas and the other was in England but 673 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:13.440 taped you know, a week apart, but not a big deal. 674 00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:17.199 Willow and Nightingale beat Harley Cameron a quick match. They 675 00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:21.119 set up a ten man tag with Dustin, Sammy Shabbata 676 00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:23.920 and Van Erics for the pay per view. Shabbata beat 677 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:27.639 Jay Lethal. It was okay. They did a training vignette 678 00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:30.840 for Stokey Hathaway and Chris Christtlander going into the mixed 679 00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:34.639 tag on the pay per view, and I guess in 680 00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:37.840 the pre show, I figured they play it for total comedy, 681 00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:40.079 and there was some comedy, but they played it more 682 00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:44.719 straight than I expected. Then Stokely and Statt beat kidcos 683 00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:47.719 two and Nina Samuels in a very quick match in 684 00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:51.119 advance of the match with is She and Willow, so 685 00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:56.519 nice to get a few, a few uh you know, 686 00:34:56.599 --> 00:35:00.079 sort of names from the from the local scene and 687 00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:04.079 progress on the show. And up to that point it 688 00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:08.679 had been a you know, typical uneventful collision. And then 689 00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:11.400 Hook and Big Bill are having a match, and again 690 00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:14.800 there's there's not not a ton to it, you know, 691 00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:17.000 just a continuation of what had been kind of a 692 00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:20.639 sleepy show. And all of a sudden, Big Bill starts 693 00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:26.920 mocking Hook and tazzes mannerisms, and the crowd decides, damn it, 694 00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:30.000 we're gonna have some fun here, and they start wildly 695 00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:34.159 cheering Bill. They're popping for everything he does, they're booing 696 00:35:34.280 --> 00:35:37.320 everything Hook does. They're just having fun with it. It 697 00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:41.639 was not happening like that at all until until Bill 698 00:35:41.719 --> 00:35:44.280 started doing those mannerisms. And I think if I were. 699 00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:45.800 You know, I think if I were Hook, I probably 700 00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:49.400 wouldn't be very happy with it because, uh, you know 701 00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:51.679 it was him sort of doing that that you know, 702 00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:54.519 that that that turned the crowd and and uh made 703 00:35:54.519 --> 00:35:58.559 it harder for for for Hook, but you know, he know, 704 00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:00.880 he's just trying to get some some at some reaction, 705 00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:04.079 and uh, you know, it became a very fun atmosphere 706 00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:07.960 and hooked one with the contage. Crowd booed, but it 707 00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:10.480 was still a fun time there. Then we got Jeff, 708 00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:13.320 Jared and Aria Davari in a ten minute match with 709 00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:15.800 those suspense and that sounds like an awful way to 710 00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:18.320 be wasting time the night before your biggest annual show. Jeff, 711 00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:21.559 Jared and Ario Davari for ten minutes. But the crowd 712 00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:24.199 again decided they're going to have some fun, and so 713 00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:27.639 they pop huge for Jeff. They chanted for Jeff, they 714 00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:30.599 sang for Jeff, they cheered for Jeff. He was having 715 00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:33.800 a ball. He was like, it's the glory Days again. 716 00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:38.760 Another another MPE few years ago, more. 717 00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:41.679 Sore, significantly more so. It was you know, it was 718 00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:44.639 you know the Jeff you know, double j rides again. 719 00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:47.480 He was thinking, he was he was having you know, 720 00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:52.039 having having dreams in there of holding the world title again, 721 00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:56.519 and uh, it ended up being really fun time and 722 00:36:56.559 --> 00:36:58.039 then the main event was Claudio. 723 00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:02.800 Is is it an Is it a good thing that 724 00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:05.639 the biggest things or one of some of the biggest 725 00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:08.719 things getting a reaction in a W would be something 726 00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:12.000 like that, Like, is that a sign the crowd is 727 00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:14.800 It's like, you know, the acclaimed in Billy Gunn getting 728 00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:17.079 the biggest pop Like, is that success? So it validates 729 00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:20.079 putting Billy gun there? Or does it mean you're you're 730 00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:23.960 not getting people excited about current things? So basically harmless 731 00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:26.480 fun or a symptom of something that maybe should be 732 00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:29.280 a little a little concerning. 733 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:32.280 Oh no, it's definitely not a good sign. I wouldn't 734 00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:35.119 put it though in terms of AW promotion in general 735 00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:38.960 and more the Collision brand, because you know, this was 736 00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:44.320 I don't think specific to to AW in general. I 737 00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:47.400 mean perhaps it was in general, but it was more, 738 00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:50.480 you know, Collision just doesn't offer you very much and 739 00:37:50.599 --> 00:37:52.880 this show did not offer you very much. And so 740 00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:55.719 the crowd, which you know, these you know, the crowds 741 00:37:55.840 --> 00:37:58.480 you know in Europe love you know, participating and getting 742 00:37:58.519 --> 00:38:01.920 exciting and getting excited and whatnot, and so you know, 743 00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:04.760 they I think wanted to have a good time, and 744 00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:08.519 you know they they got you know again Briscoe, O'Reilly 745 00:38:08.599 --> 00:38:11.159 and Orange against Strong, Tavin and Bennett, which is fine, 746 00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:16.679 Will Nightingale against Harley, Cameron Shabbat against Jay Lethal, you know, 747 00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:19.760 Stokely and Statlander against kid like us Too and Nina Samuels, 748 00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:22.719 you know, and then hooking Big Bill and you know, 749 00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:25.079 crowd just decided Hey, I mean, which still isn't like 750 00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:26.320 that big of a match, but it's like, hey, we 751 00:38:26.360 --> 00:38:28.079 want to get into this. So I don't view it 752 00:38:28.119 --> 00:38:30.000 as sort of like a you know, sort of we 753 00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:32.480 don't care about anything that's going on in AW because 754 00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:34.599 you know, MGF was not at there, Osprey was not 755 00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:36.960 out there. You know, Danilson was not out there, Swore 756 00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:39.280 was not out there. None of these people were on 757 00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:41.119 the show. You know. The main event is we'll talk 758 00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:43.840 about here was Claudio, Wheeler, Yuda and Pak against Top 759 00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:47.039 Fight Leo Rush. So yeah, I mean, it certainly is 760 00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:52.239 sort of an implicit rejection of interest in the you know, 761 00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:54.760 the the stuff that's on Collision. But I mean Collision 762 00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:57.360 is not intended to be like a big show, Like 763 00:38:57.440 --> 00:38:59.440 they know what Collision is. I mean, they're not oblivious 764 00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:01.400 to that. I'm not justifying it, by the way. I don't. 765 00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:03.519 I don't think their approach to Clision is good, but 766 00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:07.280 I don't think they'd be shocked that, like their offerings 767 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:10.599 on Collision are getting you know, you know, muted would 768 00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:13.000 get muted reactions from most of the fan base because 769 00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:15.639 they're not giving you their stuff here though they're over 770 00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:18.119 you know, they're overseas. They don't get nearly as many 771 00:39:18.199 --> 00:39:20.840 shows there the crowd that really wanted to get into stuff, 772 00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:22.760 and so they just picked random stuff because they wanted 773 00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:24.159 to get into stuff, and the stuff they were they 774 00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:26.880 were getting for that show was not high priority stuff. 775 00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:29.679 So yeah, I mean it is you know, it's not 776 00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:32.719 a great sign in that sense, But what would be 777 00:39:32.760 --> 00:39:34.440 a great sign on the show like that they were 778 00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:36.960 bigger into Claudio? I mean, like is that really like, 779 00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:39.760 I mean, there's there wasn't you know, there wasn't something 780 00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:42.159 that was really significant to aw in general or all 781 00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:45.039 in for them to get into, and so they just 782 00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:48.159 picked random stuff. Yeah. 783 00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:50.239 Yeah, I think that the good answer in terms of 784 00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:55.000 definitely the context of the moment mattering more the Billy 785 00:39:55.039 --> 00:39:57.480 Gun pops being bigger than like or you know, being 786 00:39:57.840 --> 00:39:59.519 big for Billy Gun during the acclaimed is sort of 787 00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:02.840 an ongo thing. But the Jared thing, although he's certainly 788 00:40:03.719 --> 00:40:06.760 in other context in AW, has seemed to do pretty 789 00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:09.880 well for himself. Where I think, you know, five years ago, 790 00:40:09.880 --> 00:40:11.639 people to predicted if Jeff Jarrett got a bunch of 791 00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:15.280 DV time in twenty twenty four. My own is AW fans, 792 00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:18.480 based on the core mission statement of AW, would groan 793 00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:22.159 or be a little nervous or feel like things went 794 00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:24.039 went a little awry. 795 00:40:25.639 --> 00:40:27.440 So I just put them in different categories. I think 796 00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:30.079 I think the point that you're making in general is true. 797 00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:36.280 Like you know, at times in AW and frankly in 798 00:40:36.920 --> 00:40:40.119 B for years when W wasn't doing as well, you'd 799 00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:45.000 get reactions to sort of ironic comedy bits or nostalgia 800 00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:47.519 at a higher level than the stuff that was presented 801 00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:49.719 as the most important stuff on the show, because the 802 00:40:49.760 --> 00:40:51.599 people didn't care that much about what was the most 803 00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:54.000 important stuff on the show. And so yeah, there are 804 00:40:54.159 --> 00:40:57.079 periods where like, yeah, I mean, you don't want Billy 805 00:40:57.119 --> 00:40:59.119 gunn to be getting a bigger reaction than the people 806 00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:02.280 that you're pushing most the show, and that's a bad 807 00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:04.559 sign here. I don't think this was so much like 808 00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:08.239 we love Jeff Jarrett more than you know, than than 809 00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:11.559 Danielson or you know, sore because we remember him from 810 00:41:11.639 --> 00:41:14.360 years back. I think this was just literally like they've 811 00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:18.239 reached about the halfway point of the show. There, nothing's happening, 812 00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:20.719 and so like, let's get into this hook big Bill match, 813 00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:23.119 and then they just start going crazy. And then Jeff 814 00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:25.039 Jarrett was the next guy that came out after Big 815 00:41:25.119 --> 00:41:27.880 Bill and they decided, hey, you know they're not gonna 816 00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:31.440 they're not gonna rally behind Ari Davari. So Jeff Jarrett 817 00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:36.960 there's our guy, and uh and uh it was. It 818 00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:41.519 was fun stuff. I it was. It was positive because 819 00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:43.760 I don't remember whether I made this point on uh 820 00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:46.760 on on about another show, but I don't think it was. 821 00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:50.400 I think this was the one where when Jeff Jarrett 822 00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:53.639 came out and now I'm now questioning myself. Whatever, you know, 823 00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:55.679 they like, if it was a different show than than 824 00:41:55.719 --> 00:41:56.440 Find whatever. 825 00:41:56.320 --> 00:41:57.760 I think we should talk a little bit more. 826 00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:01.000 Wait, I don't like when you do that. I don't 827 00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:02.280 like when you do to yourself and I like it 828 00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:06.800 even less when you do it with me. So uh so, 829 00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:09.840 so you know, he comes out, well, his music comes 830 00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:14.679 out right, the music hits, the crowd explodes, and it 831 00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:20.480 was there was such a cognitive dissonance between and I'm 832 00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:22.039 dinostic because I feel like I had a note here 833 00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:24.960 somewhere about this exact thing. Was this on dynamite like 834 00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:27.800 that would that would undercut my my my theory that 835 00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:29.559 it was just that there were that Jeff Jerrett came 836 00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:31.719 out at this point. But one of these shows in 837 00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:34.639 last week, the crowd hit and the reaction was so 838 00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:38.400 big that I I I had to wonder. I was 839 00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:41.719 wondering to myself whose music that was, because my mind 840 00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:44.400 would just not connect the idea that this reaction was 841 00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:46.320 Jeff Jaerrett, and then once it was Jeff Jarre is like, 842 00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:48.280 oh yeah, I guess that is Jeff Jarrett's music. But 843 00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:52.320 the the the loud cheers just you know, made it 844 00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:53.920 seem like a foreign experience to me. 845 00:42:55.000 --> 00:43:02.840 Yeah, yeah, interesting. You don't have to wait for the 846 00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:04.800 way Keller Pro Wrestling post show to find out what 847 00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:07.239 I thought of Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week. 848 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:09.880 You can check out my reports that are updated live 849 00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:13.920 throughout Raw and SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written 850 00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:16.599 report will tell you what's happening in detail in case 851 00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:19.239 you missed the show, and it will also analyze key 852 00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:22.679 segments and give my random thoughts quips on what I'm 853 00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:25.360 watching as it airs. So check it out every Monday 854 00:43:25.400 --> 00:43:29.440 night and Tuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That also 855 00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:33.400 applies to wwepayperviews. I cover those live at pw torch 856 00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:35.960 dot com with a detailed written report with star ratings. 857 00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:38.119 And of course you can find other TV reports from 858 00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:42.000 other contributors to pw torch such as nxt roh, Impact 859 00:43:42.039 --> 00:43:45.320 Wrestling and more. Check it out pwtorch dot com your 860 00:43:45.400 --> 00:44:01.199 first stop for TV and pay per view written reports. Okay, 861 00:44:01.320 --> 00:44:04.199 so that covers rampage and. 862 00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:07.440 No it didn't because the main event was Claudia Wheeler 863 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:10.199 and Hawk beating Top finally a rush to qualify for 864 00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:12.360 the ladder match. Pretty good match, and then we got 865 00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:15.119 a brawl with Patriarchy and House of Black and the 866 00:44:15.159 --> 00:44:17.679 bank banking at the end and that close quession. 867 00:44:18.199 --> 00:44:20.559 Yep, you brought it up twice. Once I interrupted you 868 00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:25.159 and once I think you interrupted yourself and that's what happen. Yeah, 869 00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:28.760 so that got me thrown off a little. Okay, very good. 870 00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:31.440 So we obviously already reviewed the pay per VIEUS Sunday 871 00:44:31.480 --> 00:44:33.679 night on the VIP Roundtable with rich Fans, so we'll 872 00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:37.519 jump to last night's Dynamite. We talked length about the 873 00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:40.800 closing sitement with Daniel Sin, but we'll march you the 874 00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:43.159 rest of the show here. They First of all, did 875 00:44:43.559 --> 00:44:49.239 the crowded around two thousand in a big arena stand 876 00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:51.599 out out to you? Or do you think a w 877 00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:56.119 has gotten actually pretty good at aiming the camera in 878 00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:59.800 the right way and producing a show and setting it 879 00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:03.039 up acoustically and audibly where it didn't feel minor league 880 00:45:03.079 --> 00:45:05.440 And if this is amongst the lowest crowds outside of 881 00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:08.079 Jacksonville that they've ever had for Dynamite, I didn't. 882 00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:10.159 Notice it until I heard other people talk about it later, 883 00:45:10.840 --> 00:45:12.440 So yeah, I didn't jump out at me on all. 884 00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:14.440 I wouldn't even say that they've gotten good at it. 885 00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:16.079 I mean, I think they're good at from the beginning. 886 00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:18.519 And you know there's some of those people like sort 887 00:45:18.519 --> 00:45:20.679 of like note that as sort of like a problem 888 00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:22.559 with aw going on the road an advocate for going 889 00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:25.079 on smaller buildings, and like, I'm not saying like one 890 00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:26.960 one's better than the other. I'm I think it would 891 00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:28.400 be fine from the go to smaller buildings. I think 892 00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:31.159 it's fine for them to run larger buildings. So yeah, 893 00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:33.519 I just not viewed as being a big deal because 894 00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:35.719 I feel like the thing, you know, the shows feel 895 00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:40.119 perfectly you know, perfectly professional, the way that they're shot 896 00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:44.960 in uh in in in uh with a smaller crowd. 897 00:45:45.159 --> 00:45:47.079 Now granted I haven't I haven't ever been one where 898 00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:48.679 it was like on the smaller side, but I've definitely 899 00:45:48.760 --> 00:45:51.400 been to their tapings where you know, they had you know, 900 00:45:51.519 --> 00:45:53.639 they had the camera side filled then and then they 901 00:45:53.679 --> 00:45:56.000 had the you know, the mostly empty third of the 902 00:45:56.039 --> 00:45:58.039 arena and going to that it didn't it didn't. It 903 00:45:58.119 --> 00:45:59.840 didn't feel to me like, oh this is you know, 904 00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:01.960 things are struggling here are like, oh, I think loss 905 00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:05.760 of the promotion, which I would have seemed the possibility 906 00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:09.519 to me before that but didn't for whatever reason while 907 00:46:09.559 --> 00:46:10.320 taking in the show. 908 00:46:11.239 --> 00:46:15.119 Yeah, I think it's good that the production ability of 909 00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:19.519 AW whether they've improved or not, is such where if 910 00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:21.679 you can not think about it while you're watching the show. 911 00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:25.559 There is when the crowds are this small, the absence 912 00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:28.920 of what WWW has as a positive in what AW 913 00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:32.039 at times, including Sunday at Wembley have going for them, 914 00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:36.320 which is WHOA, this is red hot, wide camera angle, 915 00:46:37.039 --> 00:46:40.079 lots of fans up to the last row. That's an 916 00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:42.239 extra It's sort of like extra credit. It's just like 917 00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:45.480 an extra boost to Oh, this product seems hot. This 918 00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:47.960 wrestler is in a featured segment in front of a 919 00:46:48.039 --> 00:46:50.960 crowd where the camera's panning every part of the building 920 00:46:51.039 --> 00:46:53.719 and they're going nuts. WWE has that more often than 921 00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:56.360 not these days. AW has had it at times, especially 922 00:46:56.400 --> 00:46:59.559 early on, including the first Dynamite and the weeks afterwards 923 00:46:59.559 --> 00:47:01.480 a months after to where we talked about God. One 924 00:47:01.519 --> 00:47:04.440 of the biggest assets AW has is this crowd. The 925 00:47:04.480 --> 00:47:07.280 crowd week to week to week is just elevating these 926 00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:09.679 some of the newer names and some of the free 927 00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:11.840 agents that they picked up, but especially the names that 928 00:47:11.880 --> 00:47:14.880 were less familiar to those who were were not familiar 929 00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:16.400 with them but watching them on national cable for the 930 00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:20.960 first time. The AW lacks that. So even if there's 931 00:47:21.679 --> 00:47:23.880 you're not noticing a negative, there is an absence of 932 00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:27.840 a positive that would be beneficial when you're trying to 933 00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:29.920 come across as a hot product and create new stars, 934 00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:31.800 or just give a boost to stars that have been 935 00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:34.360 around a while and feel a little cooled off. And 936 00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:37.559 so I think it's worth differentiating between those two things. 937 00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:39.760 Because they were good with the setup of the sound 938 00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:42.760 last night where it didn't sound super echoey, But there 939 00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:45.199 have been times where they've been in buildings where there 940 00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:46.920 hasn't been in a big crowd and there was just 941 00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:48.880 something about the echo in the building and it could 942 00:47:48.920 --> 00:47:50.639 just be the acoustics of the facility too, more than 943 00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:55.000 anything Aw's done. So yeah, whatever the reason is, I 944 00:47:55.039 --> 00:47:56.760 think they're at a point where they can have a 945 00:47:56.840 --> 00:47:58.599 crowd of two thousand in a major league looking building 946 00:47:58.599 --> 00:48:00.320 because their stage looks good and they shoot it well 947 00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:02.599 that it's not going to just pull the product down. 948 00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:06.039 But the absence of that boost is a bummer, and 949 00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:08.039 you would obviously rather have that, You'd rather have ten 950 00:48:08.079 --> 00:48:08.639 thousand people. 951 00:48:09.159 --> 00:48:10.760 I don't I don't know. Wait, I'm gonna take the 952 00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:12.079 other side on this one. I don't think there are 953 00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:13.880 any positives that come with Archer crowds. 954 00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:18.920 Yes, all right, Oh, go ahead, then, no kidding, So 955 00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:21.840 let's just speaking of uh, John Moxley. 956 00:48:22.519 --> 00:48:27.320 It got a refresha How's how's John Moxley speaking of that? 957 00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:29.679 Because I'd said that when you have a super big crowd, 958 00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:31.800 some of the stars who've been around and cooled off 959 00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:34.800 can seem like big stars, uh like, it can kind 960 00:48:34.840 --> 00:48:36.679 of be the wind in their sails. 961 00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:37.920 In terms of all And so John Moxley is the 962 00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:40.039 guy that's that's cooled off. I mean, I guess that's 963 00:48:40.079 --> 00:48:42.679 still more charitable than the way i'd taken it, which 964 00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:45.360 was like speaking of people who perform in front of 965 00:48:45.400 --> 00:48:48.840 small crowds John Moxley, but it was still kind of 966 00:48:48.960 --> 00:48:51.159 uh yeah, I don't I don't know that. And I 967 00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:52.840 guess Boxley is cooled off to some of the great 968 00:48:52.880 --> 00:48:55.800 that's true, But I mean I don't think he's ever 969 00:48:55.880 --> 00:48:58.320 gotten like cold. I think he's been a popular the 970 00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:02.480 entire time of the uh his entire time there. Yeah, 971 00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:04.280 And as far as the segment goes, I mean, I'm 972 00:49:04.280 --> 00:49:06.480 intrigued where it's going. And I don't use that word 973 00:49:06.519 --> 00:49:11.559 as liberally as you do, but I'm concerned that it 974 00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:15.159 sure felt like he's going heel again and It's frustrating 975 00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:18.000 to me that wrestling promotions just don't learn their lesson 976 00:49:18.039 --> 00:49:20.079 when it comes to try and turn to turn faces 977 00:49:20.119 --> 00:49:23.280 that people just inherently like and have shown no signs 978 00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:26.639 of losing their interest in. And you know, we've just 979 00:49:26.719 --> 00:49:28.960 seen it flop miserably and hurt the wrestlers involved so 980 00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:31.679 many times, you know, from Becky Lynch to Okada to 981 00:49:31.880 --> 00:49:34.320 you know the BCC and Danison and Okada that you 982 00:49:34.360 --> 00:49:37.199 know just last year. But you know, hopefully they've got 983 00:49:37.239 --> 00:49:38.760 a fresh idea that's going to add some energy of 984 00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:42.239 the show. And you know, it was, it was an 985 00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:45.400 interesting start. I'm curious where they're going with it. And 986 00:49:45.599 --> 00:49:47.320 you know, after someone wrote the mail bag about doing 987 00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:49.760 more with Marina Shafir a few weeks ago, they're going 988 00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:52.920 to get their wish. Hopefully. I'm not wrong that too 989 00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:54.679 much damage has been done to or for it to 990 00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:58.320 be effective, But certainly, if I'm Marina Shafir and I'm 991 00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:01.159 hoping that I can I can get hot here. You know, 992 00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:05.480 you you it would be hard to present a scenario 993 00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:07.760 that would get me a lot more. A realistic scenario 994 00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:09.760 would get me much more optimistic than I'm gonna repair 995 00:50:09.800 --> 00:50:13.639 with John Moxley. So that seems like a good spot 996 00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:15.239 to be if you're a Marina Shafear. 997 00:50:16.360 --> 00:50:18.559 Yeah, so a couple of things to pluck from this. 998 00:50:18.679 --> 00:50:20.960 What did you think of him calling out Derby? And 999 00:50:21.079 --> 00:50:24.360 it wasn't antagonistic? He said, it's about time you and 1000 00:50:24.400 --> 00:50:26.039 I had a talk and I won't be hard to find. 1001 00:50:26.840 --> 00:50:29.119 Do you like the idea of a faction or a 1002 00:50:29.159 --> 00:50:32.239 team or an alliance or a protege mentorship kind of 1003 00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:34.880 like Sting Darby had with Sting with Moxley and Derby? 1004 00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:36.320 And and what do you expect from this? Or is 1005 00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:38.159 it I'm calling out because I want to beat yep? 1006 00:50:38.679 --> 00:50:40.639 I think he's turning kal and going you got Derby. 1007 00:50:40.920 --> 00:50:44.000 I mean, it's not what I want, but I think 1008 00:50:44.039 --> 00:50:44.800 that's really want with it? 1009 00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:49.320 And why do you think there's a storyline reason that 1010 00:50:49.719 --> 00:50:52.519 in any way is out there why he would aim 1011 00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:54.840 in particular for Derby. If if it is, I want 1012 00:50:54.880 --> 00:50:56.960 to I'm going to beat you up? And here's why. 1013 00:50:59.719 --> 00:51:01.880 Maybe maybe he views him as sort of like a 1014 00:51:02.280 --> 00:51:04.719 you know, sort of promotional poster boy for AW, and 1015 00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:07.760 he's down on the direction AW has taken, and so 1016 00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:09.679 he wants to sort of beat some sense into Darby 1017 00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:11.639 and aw By extension something like that. 1018 00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:14.400 Yeah, and then what do you make the line this 1019 00:51:14.519 --> 00:51:15.480 is not your company anymore? 1020 00:51:16.320 --> 00:51:16.719 Same thing? 1021 00:51:18.920 --> 00:51:20.320 But was it aimed at Shabani? 1022 00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:24.840 I mean, I think I think the explanation that it's 1023 00:51:24.920 --> 00:51:29.039 directed at Atu at Tony Kahan would make more sense. 1024 00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:31.159 But just the idea in general that he's, you know, 1025 00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:34.320 he's taking over the company and you know, the the 1026 00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:37.559 what represents, he doesn't like, what aw is going to 1027 00:51:38.320 --> 00:51:41.960 is become to represent, and he's looking to bring it 1028 00:51:42.039 --> 00:51:44.679 in a different direction in line with what he wants, 1029 00:51:44.840 --> 00:51:47.920 and he views Darby as part of that. 1030 00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:53.000 All right. Uh, then we had the congaboration in hook 1031 00:51:53.280 --> 00:51:58.599 injured by Renee Piquette backstage. Anything stand out there? 1032 00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:02.119 No? 1033 00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:05.360 Not really, Yeah, just your typical colomeration interview. 1034 00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:09.599 Yes, they are somewhat interchangeable other than on occasion the 1035 00:52:09.639 --> 00:52:12.920 things they say, but the whole kind of pattern of things. 1036 00:52:13.159 --> 00:52:16.239 So is she and Hangman went seventeen minutes, hay Man 1037 00:52:16.360 --> 00:52:20.400 got the win, talk about that match and then the 1038 00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:22.000 angle with swerve of afterwards. 1039 00:52:23.800 --> 00:52:29.480 Yeah, I okay, sorry, I uh, I was confused because 1040 00:52:29.480 --> 00:52:31.400 I I deleted my note, so which would explain why 1041 00:52:31.400 --> 00:52:33.679 I didn't have anything there. Yeah, I thought I thought 1042 00:52:33.719 --> 00:52:37.639 the match was very good, very much enjoyed that hard hitting. 1043 00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:41.159 As far as the postmatch, I liked the start with 1044 00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:44.119 the intense showdown. I didn't really like what it turned 1045 00:52:44.159 --> 00:52:48.079 into though. You know, nobody buys that home invasion nonsense. 1046 00:52:48.719 --> 00:52:51.519 It wasn't like that got sort of over. Fans just 1047 00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:54.760 didn't buy it, and they roared it, so move on, Like, 1048 00:52:54.880 --> 00:52:57.519 he doesn't need to apologize for it, but it sure 1049 00:52:57.599 --> 00:52:59.480 is in making him likable or cool to lean in 1050 00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:03.320 on it, just like that affected villain laugh isn't cool 1051 00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:07.639 and doesn't make him likable either. He needs to drop that. 1052 00:53:08.920 --> 00:53:10.440 It was like he was trying to be a heel 1053 00:53:10.719 --> 00:53:14.000 taunting and menacing hangman rather than just being a cool, 1054 00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:16.800 collected dude who's not going to back down from this 1055 00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:19.320 crazed monster of his own creation, which to me is 1056 00:53:19.320 --> 00:53:22.440 what the story should be. And it also that vincent 1057 00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:23.880 man thing where two people are supposed to be in 1058 00:53:23.920 --> 00:53:25.440 this blood feud and they just stand there listening to 1059 00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:28.519 each other talk for a minutes on end. So I 1060 00:53:29.199 --> 00:53:34.800 didn't think it was it was terribly productive in advancing 1061 00:53:34.840 --> 00:53:35.280 that story. 1062 00:53:36.320 --> 00:53:43.679 Yeah, for so it's hard because of how they've handled 1063 00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:46.239 this so far to have like faith that they have 1064 00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:48.400 any idea where they're going, or to assume that they do. 1065 00:53:48.559 --> 00:53:50.840 But what do you think happens with hang mantes Worth 1066 00:53:50.880 --> 00:53:53.760 coming out of the cage match? What direction to both 1067 00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:54.639 characters going? 1068 00:53:57.199 --> 00:54:07.239 I mean, I think I think Swerve wins and hanglan 1069 00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:10.800 Page channels his anger into something else. I think that's 1070 00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:14.079 the the most likely outcome. 1071 00:54:15.039 --> 00:54:20.400 And Swerve is a babyface and sort a heal. 1072 00:54:20.840 --> 00:54:22.360 Oh no, sorry, I thought you said I think I 1073 00:54:22.360 --> 00:54:25.159 said hang out. Oh yeah, a baby face hangings to heal. Yeah, 1074 00:54:25.159 --> 00:54:27.360 I mean I I don't have any doubt about about 1075 00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:32.280 that dynamic, in spite of like the segment itself trying 1076 00:54:32.360 --> 00:54:34.440 to create doubt in that. Like if you know, if 1077 00:54:34.480 --> 00:54:37.639 I if I watched that segment and I knew no context, 1078 00:54:39.400 --> 00:54:42.000 I would say that you know that that sworb is 1079 00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:44.119 definitely a heel. And I don't know what's going on 1080 00:54:44.199 --> 00:54:46.360 with Hangman, but I guess they're doing something weird with 1081 00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:49.639 him as a baby face. But you know, like I, 1082 00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:52.039 you know, I do have greater context than just that 1083 00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:52.719 one angle. 1084 00:54:53.639 --> 00:54:59.480 Yeah yeah, ah right, So then Jamie Hater got a 1085 00:54:59.559 --> 00:55:01.679 quick one over Harley Cameron about three and a half minutes. 1086 00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:03.920 What do you think? Yeah, I started out rough but 1087 00:55:04.400 --> 00:55:06.760 got better as it went on. 1088 00:55:08.440 --> 00:55:11.079 And did they did they frame and do enough to 1089 00:55:11.239 --> 00:55:15.039 celebrate or or highlight Jamie Hater coming back? And how 1090 00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:17.320 do you feel about where she fits in in the 1091 00:55:17.320 --> 00:55:17.960 women's division? 1092 00:55:18.039 --> 00:55:18.159 Now? 1093 00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:21.000 I thought it was fine. You know, it's coming out 1094 00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:24.239 of paper that a lot of things emphasize. Yeah, they 1095 00:55:24.320 --> 00:55:27.559 chose to emphasize other things more and nothing that they 1096 00:55:27.679 --> 00:55:32.119 chose to emphasize seems to me less worthy of emphasis 1097 00:55:32.199 --> 00:55:38.039 than Jamie Hater's return. And as far as where she's 1098 00:55:38.119 --> 00:55:40.400 going coming out of this, I mean, clearly she's gonna 1099 00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:44.239 have the feud with with Soraya. She'll beat Soreya. And 1100 00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:47.480 you know they got to they got to two of these, 1101 00:55:47.559 --> 00:55:50.039 these two co equal titles, so presumably she'll go after 1102 00:55:50.119 --> 00:55:55.320 one of those. Uh, you know, so that's I would 1103 00:55:55.400 --> 00:55:55.880 I would. 1104 00:55:55.760 --> 00:56:01.079 Think, yeah, all right. Then Renee interviewed the participants in 1105 00:56:01.159 --> 00:56:03.159 the Heel. Participants in the eight Man taken of later 1106 00:56:03.239 --> 00:56:07.960 Roderick Strong, Jericho Bill, and Brian Keith and anything stand 1107 00:56:08.039 --> 00:56:08.519 out there. 1108 00:56:09.599 --> 00:56:12.199 Yeah, just a whole bunch of b style cartoon characters. 1109 00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:15.400 The one nice thing though, wait, I'm sure you'll appreciate 1110 00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:18.960 this is they're all five words or less. Guys. You know, 1111 00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:22.480 Jericho is insincere. Hi, guys, Dude, Big Bill is the 1112 00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:26.039 chill Redwood. Brian Keith is the ornery bad Apple. Roderick 1113 00:56:26.119 --> 00:56:28.320 strong strong A screams the first word. 1114 00:56:28.360 --> 00:56:28.559 Guy. 1115 00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:31.760 You know, they've they've got all of you know, they've 1116 00:56:31.800 --> 00:56:34.920 got it all wrapped up in meat. Yeah. I mean, 1117 00:56:36.000 --> 00:56:39.360 Jericho's an all time legend. I've you know, been a 1118 00:56:39.400 --> 00:56:43.079 big fan of his for a long time. But I 1119 00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:45.320 think he's a dragon on the entire show in this role. 1120 00:56:45.360 --> 00:56:47.880 I think, you know, just this is not what you 1121 00:56:47.960 --> 00:56:51.320 want your show to be. Is just you know, gimmicky 1122 00:56:52.239 --> 00:56:56.000 cartoon you know, derby By characters and a guy that 1123 00:56:56.199 --> 00:56:59.519 kind of has go away heat, you know, week after week. 1124 00:57:01.119 --> 00:57:04.440 Why do you think, well, actually, step back, what do 1125 00:57:04.519 --> 00:57:08.000 you think of Jericho's reinventions in the past. How is 1126 00:57:08.079 --> 00:57:10.920 this different and is it different in and of itself 1127 00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:13.920 or different because of the context of aw in the 1128 00:57:13.960 --> 00:57:17.159 timeframeer and in wrestling compared to other sort of representations 1129 00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:19.760 of himself and reinventions or refreshes. 1130 00:57:21.320 --> 00:57:23.679 I think he's had a lot of very successful reinventions. 1131 00:57:23.719 --> 00:57:25.679 I mean, not all of them were great, but you know, 1132 00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:27.920 like you know, when it first returned to he owned 1133 00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:30.280 w c W and and sort of created that character 1134 00:57:30.320 --> 00:57:32.599 the first time, it was very you know, he's very effective. 1135 00:57:33.159 --> 00:57:34.840 When he turned into sort of a main more main 1136 00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:37.320 event babyface, he was very effective in that role as well. 1137 00:57:37.679 --> 00:57:39.800 You know, there's a Nick Bockwinkle thing which was also 1138 00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:43.039 very effective. The you know, the the run with with 1139 00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:48.679 Kenny Omega and early aw with you know, with singing 1140 00:57:48.800 --> 00:57:51.280 Judas and all that was was was very effective as well. 1141 00:57:51.800 --> 00:57:54.320 So he's he's had a lot of very successful reinventions 1142 00:57:54.840 --> 00:57:57.760 as far as what's going on now here. There just 1143 00:57:57.840 --> 00:58:00.800 comes time with different wrestlers where fans aren't into them anymore. 1144 00:58:00.920 --> 00:58:02.840 I mean, there's nothing wrong with it, like I you know, 1145 00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:05.440 like there's so many I've brought this up from time 1146 00:58:05.480 --> 00:58:07.559 to time, but like they are wrestlers when I got 1147 00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:10.079 into wrestling, where I watched them in the state that 1148 00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:12.920 they were in and I just was like, why are 1149 00:58:12.920 --> 00:58:14.920 they these people even on the show? And I think 1150 00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:18.760 that's the perspective of the people that aren't longtime fans 1151 00:58:18.800 --> 00:58:21.559 that know them when they were more effective character, and 1152 00:58:21.679 --> 00:58:23.599 they just you know, it's like, why not Dick Murdock. 1153 00:58:23.639 --> 00:58:24.840 You know, I first saw Dick Mark, I was like, 1154 00:58:24.920 --> 00:58:27.000 what is Dick Murdock doing here? And then later I 1155 00:58:27.039 --> 00:58:28.519 saw Dick Murdock in his prime, and I was like, 1156 00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:31.599 Dick Murdock is great. But Dick Murdock in nineteen eighty 1157 00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:33.519 nine was not great. He wasn't effective anymore. You know, 1158 00:58:33.599 --> 00:58:36.199 Sean Waltman had a great career, but they've reached a 1159 00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:39.280 point where, for whatever reason, people were like, I just 1160 00:58:39.320 --> 00:58:41.480 don't want to see Sean Walman anymore. And you could, 1161 00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:45.280 you know, you could, you could intellectualize why they shouldn't 1162 00:58:45.320 --> 00:58:47.719 feel that way, but that was just the way they felt, 1163 00:58:48.199 --> 00:58:51.079 and having him on the show wasn't terribly effective relative 1164 00:58:51.079 --> 00:58:54.559 to other people. The Hardys, they you know, they reinvented 1165 00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:57.079 themselves a million times, you know, Matt Hardy, like he 1166 00:58:57.119 --> 00:58:59.199 came up with different ideas, came up with different ideas, 1167 00:58:59.320 --> 00:59:01.760 like he had an nice, long career, and they're just 1168 00:59:01.760 --> 00:59:04.360 to reach a point where people didn't care that much anymore. 1169 00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:06.599 It happens. It's just that's the way of the world. 1170 00:59:07.760 --> 00:59:11.079 And you know, I I get why once people you know, 1171 00:59:11.239 --> 00:59:14.039 reach that position. They don't want to admit it to 1172 00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:18.480 themselves and they make rationalizations, but you know, it's you know, 1173 00:59:18.679 --> 00:59:20.719 just like you know, like when when you know, when 1174 00:59:20.800 --> 00:59:23.280 when uh, when fighters are at the end, the end 1175 00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:26.440 of their career, and you know, it's it's evident to them, 1176 00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:28.800 you know, not not evident to them, it's evident to 1177 00:59:28.840 --> 00:59:30.880 everyone watching them that they don't have it anymore. They're 1178 00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:33.880 getting knocked out, they're moving slower, but they're thinking, oh, 1179 00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:35.960 my training is going so well, and they remember what 1180 00:59:36.039 --> 00:59:37.960 they had before, and they just don't want to believe 1181 00:59:38.519 --> 00:59:41.400 that it's it's it's over and something that's changed. And 1182 00:59:41.639 --> 00:59:43.360 even if they could spot in the in the the 1183 00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:46.920 the the same fighters like them, but for them, it's different. 1184 00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:50.000 And you know, that's that's in my opinion, the situation 1185 00:59:50.079 --> 00:59:52.519 with Jericho. I mean, it's it's unfortunate, but I mean, 1186 00:59:52.719 --> 00:59:55.159 you know, I'm I'm analyzing this from the standpoint of 1187 00:59:55.239 --> 00:59:56.920 what's you know, what's good for the show, what's you know, 1188 00:59:57.039 --> 01:00:00.079 good for the business in general? And you know, you 1189 01:00:00.119 --> 01:00:03.159 can it's you know, there's sort of it. I mean, 1190 01:00:03.559 --> 01:00:05.599 I was gonna say, like this sort of an unfairalm, 1191 01:00:05.639 --> 01:00:07.280 but there's an unfair Amum, that's the way of the world. 1192 01:00:07.320 --> 01:00:08.840 You know, like we all got old, and it's you know, 1193 01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:11.360 it's it's sad. I mean, I wish the you know, 1194 01:00:11.400 --> 01:00:13.480 the human aging process were a lot longer. You know, 1195 01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:16.480 I'd love to, you know, live five thousand years and 1196 01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:19.519 do all sorts of stuff and and and you know 1197 01:00:19.719 --> 01:00:23.039 just feel, you know, exactly as the same that I felt, 1198 01:00:23.159 --> 01:00:25.559 you know, twenty years ago and in twenty years. But 1199 01:00:26.679 --> 01:00:28.239 you know, that's that's not the way things are going 1200 01:00:28.280 --> 01:00:29.320 to go unfortunately. 1201 01:00:32.559 --> 01:00:35.519 Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me 1202 01:00:35.719 --> 01:00:39.199 Jason Powell, host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. 1203 01:00:39.639 --> 01:00:41.840 Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis for 1204 01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:44.000 me and my team at pro wrestling dot Net along 1205 01:00:44.079 --> 01:00:47.000 with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling 1206 01:00:47.039 --> 01:00:50.360 Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in 1207 01:00:50.400 --> 01:00:54.079 the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and itunices, Ditcher, Downcast, and 1208 01:00:54.159 --> 01:00:57.280 all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at 1209 01:00:57.320 --> 01:01:01.639 PW boom dot com. Once again, that's pw boom dot com. 1210 01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:11.320 So talk about people not realizing that their time is 1211 01:01:11.679 --> 01:01:15.400 expired for what made them relevant in their field outside 1212 01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:18.880 of the torch in the wrestling analyst journalists field. Let's 1213 01:01:18.880 --> 01:01:19.599 talk about some names. 1214 01:01:19.599 --> 01:01:24.559 Todd, you go first, Wait, that's like a general joke. 1215 01:01:25.159 --> 01:01:28.360 That like that, like you know, one could just use 1216 01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:31.440 in general as like a gag and we laugh. But 1217 01:01:31.559 --> 01:01:34.079 that that is I'm not even gonna touch that one. 1218 01:01:36.920 --> 01:01:38.559 You think the aggregators wouldn't have fun with that. 1219 01:01:40.679 --> 01:01:42.480 I'm not. I'm not. I'm not touching that one. I'm 1220 01:01:42.519 --> 01:01:45.480 not even as like a gag. Ha ha, Yeah, let's 1221 01:01:45.559 --> 01:01:47.039 joke about this one, not touching it. 1222 01:01:47.519 --> 01:01:50.639 What about the silence? What about the silence that speaks? 1223 01:01:50.719 --> 01:01:56.760 Wait, that's move on, speak another time, another setting, and 1224 01:01:56.920 --> 01:01:58.719 we we we joke. We have jokes like that. 1225 01:02:00.199 --> 01:02:02.239 He says a lot right now, the urgency to want 1226 01:02:02.280 --> 01:02:04.320 to move away from this topic is really telling. 1227 01:02:04.400 --> 01:02:06.239 Okay, wait, moving on to the next subject. 1228 01:02:06.519 --> 01:02:07.960 I well, no, I have a fallo up on Jericho. 1229 01:02:09.039 --> 01:02:10.760 You know, you're usually nice in that weight. I think 1230 01:02:10.800 --> 01:02:12.800 glass of you doing that? That was that was That 1231 01:02:12.920 --> 01:02:14.480 was a mean thing you just did right there. 1232 01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:17.719 Well, I was thinking I can't think of anyone everyone's 1233 01:02:17.719 --> 01:02:19.320 great who's been around for a while, no one, no 1234 01:02:19.400 --> 01:02:24.320 one has reached that stage. Wait, moving on all right, Jericho, 1235 01:02:24.519 --> 01:02:26.599 So you talked a lot about sometimes it's just the 1236 01:02:26.679 --> 01:02:30.679 time has come. Is it this particular with this particular 1237 01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:35.559 direction he's gone in with this persona of Jericho and 1238 01:02:35.599 --> 01:02:38.599 the learning tree? Would it have worked in a different 1239 01:02:38.920 --> 01:02:42.079 timeframe and would it have to be tweaked? Like I'm 1240 01:02:42.119 --> 01:02:44.159 general Ker's like, are you thinking there's almost nothing Jericho 1241 01:02:44.199 --> 01:02:45.920 could do? It's just it's time, you know, no matter 1242 01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:49.079 what you do, or now it's this choice. This choice 1243 01:02:49.159 --> 01:02:51.440 is so tone deaf, or it's flopped and they should 1244 01:02:51.440 --> 01:02:52.440 have adjusted or moved on. 1245 01:02:53.000 --> 01:02:55.000 Oh no, I mean there's a clear point here, and 1246 01:02:55.079 --> 01:02:57.599 there was that point last year where the thing came 1247 01:02:57.639 --> 01:03:06.679 out with with uh, what's her name? Uh? Right, I've 1248 01:03:06.840 --> 01:03:09.039 learned not you know that I get myself into trouble 1249 01:03:09.119 --> 01:03:11.679 where I start describing people just by like, oh, it's 1250 01:03:11.719 --> 01:03:14.119 the person who did this, and then I invariably come 1251 01:03:14.199 --> 01:03:15.800 up with some sort of insulting description. 1252 01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:21.000 So rather than that, many of our listeners grandma's name 1253 01:03:21.239 --> 01:03:22.280 or daughter's name. 1254 01:03:22.599 --> 01:03:24.599 Is to quickly pull out their name and then uh 1255 01:03:24.719 --> 01:03:27.480 and then go and then and then move on. 1256 01:03:27.559 --> 01:03:30.159 From there, what's your term behind their name? 1257 01:03:30.199 --> 01:03:32.840 Though? I thought I thought for sure that they were 1258 01:03:32.840 --> 01:03:35.880 on a specific show, and then it turns out they 1259 01:03:35.920 --> 01:03:38.840 weren't on that specific show, and that you know that, 1260 01:03:40.039 --> 01:03:43.719 God damn it, what a disappointment that I turned out 1261 01:03:43.760 --> 01:03:47.800 to be. Let's try it. Let's try Uh. I've got 1262 01:03:47.840 --> 01:03:51.039 another idea to figure out this person? Who this person is? 1263 01:03:53.079 --> 01:03:55.440 Uh, just hold hold the phone up to your head 1264 01:03:55.480 --> 01:03:57.599 and say a I who am I trying to think of? 1265 01:03:59.280 --> 01:04:01.679 I know exactly thinking of? And I could start giving 1266 01:04:01.719 --> 01:04:04.079 you a bunch of descriptions for it. But like I said, 1267 01:04:04.320 --> 01:04:10.760 if I, if I, if I, if I do that, 1268 01:04:11.800 --> 01:04:14.360 it's gonna be a one note characterization of this person. 1269 01:04:14.480 --> 01:04:16.159 And I am not going to do that. I'm just 1270 01:04:16.239 --> 01:04:21.480 gonna keep stalling for time until I find the same. 1271 01:04:22.559 --> 01:04:29.599 Oh my god, Uh, Kylie Ray, there we go. Yes, 1272 01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:33.320 the the the you know, the you know the little 1273 01:04:33.400 --> 01:04:37.280 period there where you know the the Kylie Ray voiced 1274 01:04:37.440 --> 01:04:45.800 some you know, some clear allusions to Jericho having something 1275 01:04:46.239 --> 01:04:52.079 unpleasant reactions you know, uh, inac interreactions with hr. At 1276 01:04:52.159 --> 01:04:56.400 some point this the thing was not really spelled out 1277 01:04:56.400 --> 01:05:00.159 at any point. People tied it into you know, to 1278 01:05:00.719 --> 01:05:04.280 to speaking out whether that's fair, whether that's not fair, 1279 01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:08.000 and you know, that broke in a period before an 1280 01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:10.280 aw pay per view, and there was talk about whether 1281 01:05:10.320 --> 01:05:12.400 he might be pulled from the pay per view, whether 1282 01:05:12.440 --> 01:05:14.880 he might be pulled from the company. And you know, 1283 01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:18.519 the reactions to Jericho have been negative ever since. So 1284 01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:21.320 I mean, that was the clear point. And you know, 1285 01:05:22.679 --> 01:05:25.119 I still you know, as we talked, we talked about 1286 01:05:25.119 --> 01:05:28.280 the show that that night, I wasn't, you know, ready 1287 01:05:28.400 --> 01:05:32.199 to sort of uh, you know, to to to call 1288 01:05:32.360 --> 01:05:35.079 for Jericho to be fired or something when we didn't 1289 01:05:35.119 --> 01:05:40.440 even have explicit allegations, let alone, you know, let alone 1290 01:05:40.480 --> 01:05:46.400 have confirmation that the allegations were true. But you know, regardless, 1291 01:05:46.800 --> 01:05:48.800 and I mean, I guess you I guess you could argue, well, 1292 01:05:49.599 --> 01:05:51.239 you know, well, I don't know. I mean I was 1293 01:05:51.280 --> 01:05:52.480 I was thinking, like, well, you don't want to like 1294 01:05:52.519 --> 01:05:55.360 punish someone for something they didn't do. But it's I mean, 1295 01:05:55.880 --> 01:05:57.599 as Evans by the fact I didn't call from the 1296 01:05:58.199 --> 01:06:00.480 to you know, to to to to be doing less 1297 01:06:00.519 --> 01:06:03.599 at that point, and I am now like at this point, 1298 01:06:03.679 --> 01:06:06.039 he's just not effective as a part of the show. 1299 01:06:06.639 --> 01:06:09.000 And you know, he created this character specifically to deal 1300 01:06:09.039 --> 01:06:10.800 with the fact he was getting those sorts of reactions 1301 01:06:11.199 --> 01:06:14.239 and the character is not in my opinion, I mean, 1302 01:06:14.239 --> 01:06:16.519 it's not whether the character is working or not working. 1303 01:06:17.039 --> 01:06:20.760 It's just like as of Tigers, the aw's promotion that 1304 01:06:20.920 --> 01:06:23.800 really needs its own positive identity. It does not need 1305 01:06:23.840 --> 01:06:25.719 to come across as debt to be light. And the 1306 01:06:25.840 --> 01:06:28.760 Jericho thing is just like bad deda Bee. It's just 1307 01:06:28.880 --> 01:06:34.000 this goofy cartoon guy doing wacky, you know, winking stuff 1308 01:06:34.079 --> 01:06:37.239 that you can't take seriously. And you know, it's just 1309 01:06:37.440 --> 01:06:40.880 like this tonal, you know, you know, it's it's just 1310 01:06:40.960 --> 01:06:44.280 a bad tonally in the context of the show, you know, 1311 01:06:44.360 --> 01:06:47.000 not unlike you know, the acclaimed, but you know there's 1312 01:06:47.079 --> 01:06:49.320 a number of characters like that, and you know, Jericho 1313 01:06:49.480 --> 01:06:50.960 is is the worst of the bunch. 1314 01:06:52.320 --> 01:06:55.239 Is there any value for Chris Jericho if you're Paula Back? 1315 01:06:55.880 --> 01:06:59.199 What a change of scenery? Erase some of this? Is 1316 01:06:59.280 --> 01:07:01.159 it in some way tied to the a W fan 1317 01:07:01.239 --> 01:07:04.400 base and the AW aesthetic and culture or and there's 1318 01:07:04.480 --> 01:07:06.400 enough history with him in w w B. He'd get 1319 01:07:07.079 --> 01:07:13.639 a welcoming nostalgia pop and another chance to represent himself. 1320 01:07:14.360 --> 01:07:16.480 If I were bringing him in his Paula back, and 1321 01:07:16.519 --> 01:07:18.400 I'm not sure bring him in at all. It would 1322 01:07:18.440 --> 01:07:20.280 be a short term thing, you know, like we're gonna 1323 01:07:20.320 --> 01:07:22.199 you know, sort of a last you know, last little run, 1324 01:07:22.840 --> 01:07:25.880 coming to to b one last time, do a program 1325 01:07:26.039 --> 01:07:28.480 and then do you know, a retirement type deal at 1326 01:07:28.599 --> 01:07:31.480 at at wrestlemaning and do a Hall of Fame something 1327 01:07:31.519 --> 01:07:31.679 like that. 1328 01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:35.880 All right, all right, So back to Dynamite and march 1329 01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:38.920 through the segments here, the m j F promo and 1330 01:07:39.480 --> 01:07:45.920 then Danny Garcia attacking him. Yeah, your your thoughts on 1331 01:07:46.079 --> 01:07:47.360 on this thumbs up, thumbs down. 1332 01:07:48.119 --> 01:07:52.480 Yeah, thumbstown. Earlier when you were doing you know, when 1333 01:07:52.519 --> 01:07:55.000 you let into that, you know that that ambush question 1334 01:07:55.159 --> 01:07:57.480 that you you threw out that we're not gonna go 1335 01:07:57.800 --> 01:07:59.639 into any further. I thought that you were going to 1336 01:07:59.719 --> 01:08:03.320 lead Jeff was where you're going here because MGF to me, 1337 01:08:04.280 --> 01:08:08.719 feels lost as a character. Part of what made him 1338 01:08:09.119 --> 01:08:12.320 so effective as a heel was it was so easy 1339 01:08:12.400 --> 01:08:15.679 to buy into him being the jerk that he was 1340 01:08:15.760 --> 01:08:19.199 portrayed as on television. And then he did that you know, 1341 01:08:19.359 --> 01:08:23.199 that stupid year long tern where he never really explained 1342 01:08:23.239 --> 01:08:26.000 why he turned and he's putting over the fans and 1343 01:08:26.119 --> 01:08:29.039 then he just randomly turns back one week and rather 1344 01:08:29.159 --> 01:08:32.359 than easing back into it into making you buy him 1345 01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:36.000 as a jerk again, he just leans into the most contrived, 1346 01:08:36.119 --> 01:08:39.199 cheap heat every week and it feels so phony. And 1347 01:08:39.479 --> 01:08:42.039 playing the American patriot for a few weeks because he's 1348 01:08:42.079 --> 01:08:44.479 wrestling in other countries only to then come back to 1349 01:08:44.520 --> 01:08:47.720 America and denounce America is the epitome of that. And 1350 01:08:47.800 --> 01:08:49.359 that was an issue going into this, but like this, 1351 01:08:49.600 --> 01:08:52.199 like you know, made it even worse. Of like this 1352 01:08:52.359 --> 01:08:56.479 guy that just comes across like everything he's doing is 1353 01:08:56.680 --> 01:08:58.760 just he's just doing because he's playing a bad guy, 1354 01:08:59.159 --> 01:09:00.880 and that's there's not heat in that. Like it's hard 1355 01:09:00.920 --> 01:09:02.560 to get real heat when you just feel like you're 1356 01:09:02.840 --> 01:09:08.479 trying so hard to be the bad guy. You know, 1357 01:09:08.720 --> 01:09:10.359 he you know what, he should have been the one 1358 01:09:10.399 --> 01:09:12.560 to randomly slap his own mother at the ringside because 1359 01:09:12.840 --> 01:09:15.399 that was so on brand for what he's doing right now. 1360 01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:19.720 And he needs to simplify everything and try to feel 1361 01:09:19.800 --> 01:09:23.800 like a believable human being again. And my big recommendation 1362 01:09:23.920 --> 01:09:26.439 for him would be for the next year to always 1363 01:09:26.520 --> 01:09:29.960 be thinking about the reason why he's doing every heelish 1364 01:09:30.039 --> 01:09:32.239 thing he's doing. You know, not because he's a bad 1365 01:09:32.319 --> 01:09:35.000 guy and that's what bad guys do, but because there's 1366 01:09:35.039 --> 01:09:37.279 something in it for him, or he has a specific 1367 01:09:37.359 --> 01:09:40.319 reason for not liking individual people. There's you know, there's 1368 01:09:40.359 --> 01:09:43.079 a reason in his head for why he's doing these things. 1369 01:09:43.399 --> 01:09:46.159 You know, if there's a motorcycle rider who is in 1370 01:09:46.239 --> 01:09:48.840 an accident and he's you know, the guy's thrown from 1371 01:09:48.880 --> 01:09:50.640 his vehicle, he's lying on the side of the road 1372 01:09:51.159 --> 01:09:53.239 and it's you know, it's not a crowded time, and 1373 01:09:53.319 --> 01:09:55.640 there's a car, you know, there's car driving by. A 1374 01:09:55.720 --> 01:09:57.680 good person is going to stop and try to help 1375 01:09:57.720 --> 01:09:59.560 the person who's laid out on the side of the road. 1376 01:09:59.600 --> 01:10:04.039 After this accent, a bad person might drive on because 1377 01:10:04.039 --> 01:10:07.479 they don't want to be bothered. MJF and his incarnation 1378 01:10:07.720 --> 01:10:10.520 would stop, piss on the guy and start making fun 1379 01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:13.840 of him. And there's less heat in that than the 1380 01:10:13.880 --> 01:10:17.479 guy who drives on, because it's discordant with basic human 1381 01:10:17.600 --> 01:10:21.079 experience and it's not relatable. And that's what MGF has become. 1382 01:10:21.159 --> 01:10:25.800 He's become an implausible caricature of a human being, made 1383 01:10:25.880 --> 01:10:27.319 all the worse by the fact he was playing a 1384 01:10:27.399 --> 01:10:30.439 face a few weeks ago and by the way, like 1385 01:10:30.520 --> 01:10:33.159 Tony Shavanni, like you know, I've been noting you know 1386 01:10:33.199 --> 01:10:34.800 how I don't think that Tony Siavanni is good in 1387 01:10:34.880 --> 01:10:38.359 his role right now, but he's that is most awful 1388 01:10:38.520 --> 01:10:43.119 screaming at MGF because it epitomizes his general insincerity, like 1389 01:10:43.600 --> 01:10:46.920 no one could possibly be this upset at a cartoon character, 1390 01:10:47.319 --> 01:10:49.960 and it shows Shavanni as the cartoon character that he 1391 01:10:50.159 --> 01:10:52.119 is in his own right, the way that he gets 1392 01:10:52.119 --> 01:10:54.560 so upset over this cartoon character that nobody else is 1393 01:10:54.680 --> 01:10:58.319 upset at because he's a cartoon character. So yeah, I 1394 01:10:58.359 --> 01:11:03.079 think MGF needs a lot of refocusing right now. On 1395 01:11:03.159 --> 01:11:05.520 the plus side, I thought that Danny Garcia was very 1396 01:11:05.520 --> 01:11:06.680 good on the MIC. I thought it was the best 1397 01:11:06.720 --> 01:11:08.439 point I've seen him do. And I think it's a 1398 01:11:08.600 --> 01:11:13.479 very good sign that in what's the most prominent role 1399 01:11:13.560 --> 01:11:16.920 of his career thus far, that he's carrying himself as 1400 01:11:16.960 --> 01:11:20.279 a future player from a personality standpoint. So I thought 1401 01:11:20.319 --> 01:11:23.520 that was a positive sign. Not not high on on 1402 01:11:23.640 --> 01:11:26.319 what mgf's doing. All right. 1403 01:11:26.840 --> 01:11:28.880 Then we got the eight man tag match with the 1404 01:11:29.079 --> 01:11:33.119 aforementioned Learning Tree team with Rodert Strong and then Hook 1405 01:11:33.159 --> 01:11:36.359 Priscal Cassidy and O'Reilly hooking Company one in seventeen minutes. 1406 01:11:36.359 --> 01:11:37.119 What's stood out here for you? 1407 01:11:38.119 --> 01:11:40.680 Match was pretty good. I don't know about what they 1408 01:11:40.720 --> 01:11:42.640 did there and the finishes, the build for a title 1409 01:11:42.680 --> 01:11:45.119 match in pay per view, but it's not like Roderick 1410 01:11:45.159 --> 01:11:49.079 Strong versus hook is a priority program for for that 1411 01:11:49.159 --> 01:11:51.039 pay per view or any pay per view. I also 1412 01:11:51.079 --> 01:11:53.359 don't know why Roderk Strong wants the FTW title anyway, 1413 01:11:53.479 --> 01:11:54.880 Like why does he care about that thing? 1414 01:11:56.000 --> 01:11:56.439 There is that? 1415 01:11:56.760 --> 01:11:57.159 There is that? 1416 01:12:00.159 --> 01:12:03.600 All right? Then we had the Mercedes Monet quote partey 1417 01:12:04.479 --> 01:12:07.520 with private party joining because well we don't know why. 1418 01:12:08.399 --> 01:12:11.479 And then Okada got involved in that skit, t would you? 1419 01:12:11.520 --> 01:12:15.960 Then they turned Okada into an under five word guy too, profane, jokester, jerk, 1420 01:12:16.239 --> 01:12:18.560 none of that new Japan ambiguity where you couldn't spell 1421 01:12:18.600 --> 01:12:18.880 it out. 1422 01:12:20.800 --> 01:12:22.439 I want more thoughts on that segment from you. 1423 01:12:23.359 --> 01:12:24.960 I mean it was you know, there's not a lot 1424 01:12:25.039 --> 01:12:25.239 to it. 1425 01:12:25.920 --> 01:12:27.680 Yeah, how are you feeling about Mercedes? 1426 01:12:29.039 --> 01:12:29.159 Uh? 1427 01:12:29.439 --> 01:12:32.760 Not not not great, but she's at least a he'll know. 1428 01:12:33.399 --> 01:12:36.079 Yeah, yeah, exactly all right. Then Schevani stood on the 1429 01:12:36.119 --> 01:12:38.760 ramp and introduced Mariah Main. She flirted with him a 1430 01:12:38.800 --> 01:12:40.880 bit and took off a robe with her belt and 1431 01:12:40.960 --> 01:12:44.600 her neglige, her nightgown whatever. What do you think? 1432 01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:47.199 I mean, not a ton to it, but it was 1433 01:12:47.359 --> 01:12:50.640 fine for what it was. Yeah, I definitely want you 1434 01:12:50.720 --> 01:12:53.000 definitely want more coming out of her title win. But 1435 01:12:53.199 --> 01:12:54.600 I mean I assume that's coming. 1436 01:12:56.399 --> 01:12:59.960 Then grizzled young veterans have Begnette and a promol from that, 1437 01:13:00.079 --> 01:13:01.520 what do you think? And smitter actually with the. 1438 01:13:01.520 --> 01:13:04.239 Box that's good, little good in the mic like they 1439 01:13:04.640 --> 01:13:05.520 almost always are. 1440 01:13:06.359 --> 01:13:09.920 All right, And then video package on Tequeshtau in New Japan, 1441 01:13:10.239 --> 01:13:12.159 uh in the g One tournament and then they announced 1442 01:13:12.199 --> 01:13:17.319 he'd beyond rampage fighting Morto's commander and Leo Rush. What 1443 01:13:17.359 --> 01:13:21.319 do you think, Todd, I mean, it's just high using 1444 01:13:21.359 --> 01:13:21.760 the g One. 1445 01:13:22.039 --> 01:13:24.239 I don't care as much about that stuffs as you do, 1446 01:13:24.439 --> 01:13:26.039 but you know it seems worth mentioning. 1447 01:13:26.560 --> 01:13:29.520 You don't care about highlighting the g One or the 1448 01:13:29.640 --> 01:13:30.279 fact that, you. 1449 01:13:30.279 --> 01:13:32.119 Know, yeah, highlighting other things that are going on. Yeah, 1450 01:13:32.439 --> 01:13:33.119 talking for people. 1451 01:13:33.680 --> 01:13:37.039 Yeah, all right? Then uh Rick Sha and Kyle Fletcher 1452 01:13:37.319 --> 01:13:39.039 rickchet one in twelve minutes, what do you think of 1453 01:13:39.039 --> 01:13:42.279 the presentation of Ricochet and the flow of this match 1454 01:13:42.319 --> 01:13:43.640 and the choice of Fletcher as an opponent. 1455 01:13:44.800 --> 01:13:47.199 I thought that he you know, I mean, it wasn't 1456 01:13:47.199 --> 01:13:48.640 package that much. They just sort of came out and 1457 01:13:48.680 --> 01:13:53.439 had the match. The match itself was pretty good, you know, 1458 01:13:53.520 --> 01:13:55.039 not as much of a statement as you'd hope for, 1459 01:13:55.199 --> 01:13:57.560 but you know, there's there's still time for that. I 1460 01:13:57.640 --> 01:13:59.439 found it interesting he's not using a flying move as 1461 01:13:59.439 --> 01:14:02.319 a finisher. Seems a clear sign that he's focused on 1462 01:14:02.479 --> 01:14:07.039 body preservation as he approached his late thirties. Angle afterwards, 1463 01:14:07.079 --> 01:14:08.880 I thought was good. You know, we got a little 1464 01:14:08.920 --> 01:14:12.079 tease of the eventual Ospring match as well. Hopefully there 1465 01:14:12.079 --> 01:14:14.760 aren't fans watching that who expected a three way and 1466 01:14:15.239 --> 01:14:16.079 end up disappointed. 1467 01:14:17.000 --> 01:14:19.960 Oh right, yeah, anything else from Dynamite, I'm going to skip. 1468 01:14:19.960 --> 01:14:20.960 Pat that you have no time that you want to 1469 01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:21.279 bring up. 1470 01:14:21.640 --> 01:14:21.880 Nope. 1471 01:14:23.760 --> 01:14:27.800 Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or AW Dynamite 1472 01:14:27.840 --> 01:14:30.199 in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts 1473 01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:31.800 on the show or a topic you want us to 1474 01:14:31.880 --> 01:14:35.399 address or a question for us. Wade Keller Podcast at 1475 01:14:35.720 --> 01:14:40.680 pwtorch dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at petwtorch dot com. If 1476 01:14:40.720 --> 01:14:42.439 there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that you 1477 01:14:42.479 --> 01:14:44.880 want us to address on our main podcast during our 1478 01:14:44.920 --> 01:14:48.680 mailbank segments. That same email applies Wade Keller podcast at 1479 01:14:48.760 --> 01:14:52.239 pwtorch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us know 1480 01:14:52.319 --> 01:14:54.520 what you think of what we're saying, and let us 1481 01:14:54.600 --> 01:14:56.600 know what you want us to talk about and ask 1482 01:14:56.720 --> 01:15:00.000 us specific questions. Wade Keller podcast at PW torch dot com. 1483 01:15:00.119 --> 01:15:04.560 Come well. 1484 01:15:04.600 --> 01:15:07.680 By the way, before to the McMahon phitsic Mann series 1485 01:15:07.800 --> 01:15:11.279 on Netflix, the release state has been announced. What do 1486 01:15:11.359 --> 01:15:14.720 you anticipate from this and anything stand out in terms 1487 01:15:14.760 --> 01:15:16.039 of what we do know about at this point. 1488 01:15:16.439 --> 01:15:20.479 I mean, I think it'll end up being very interesting 1489 01:15:20.600 --> 01:15:24.800 because Vince is a very interesting figure and they you know, 1490 01:15:24.880 --> 01:15:26.520 they talk to a lot of people about a lot 1491 01:15:26.560 --> 01:15:28.119 of different things over the course of his life that 1492 01:15:28.239 --> 01:15:32.279 you know, not necessarily been covered with his perspective on things. 1493 01:15:33.079 --> 01:15:34.479 So I think there's gonna be a lot of interesting 1494 01:15:34.560 --> 01:15:39.000 stuff in there. I think, you know, morally, it could 1495 01:15:39.239 --> 01:15:42.000 end up being a bit of a quagmire trying to 1496 01:15:42.119 --> 01:15:44.159 cover it, because I mean, they did the thing before, 1497 01:15:45.800 --> 01:15:49.159 you know, before things really sort of broke down with 1498 01:15:49.319 --> 01:15:52.920 him and the I mean, I don't think that their 1499 01:15:53.000 --> 01:15:56.199 intention was not to do a fawning documentary, but it 1500 01:15:56.319 --> 01:15:58.359 was with him. I mean, you know, he's going to 1501 01:15:58.399 --> 01:16:03.720 be through his lens, and you know it was you know, 1502 01:16:03.920 --> 01:16:06.119 even if their intention was to be you know, sort 1503 01:16:06.159 --> 01:16:09.279 of you know, fair minded, this was a thing that 1504 01:16:09.359 --> 01:16:13.720 I think was gonna end up being more charitable to 1505 01:16:14.399 --> 01:16:17.640 Vince than he probably merited before the allegations. So you've 1506 01:16:17.640 --> 01:16:22.640 already recorded this thing and you know it's probably nicer 1507 01:16:22.720 --> 01:16:25.600 to Vince than than it deserves. And then you've got 1508 01:16:25.720 --> 01:16:30.039 to try to you know, tackle this, you know, this uh, 1509 01:16:31.079 --> 01:16:36.399 this situation that you know that that is just a 1510 01:16:36.640 --> 01:16:40.479 minefield and you've already got this whole thing covered, and 1511 01:16:41.520 --> 01:16:43.840 I don't know how you do that. I frankly was 1512 01:16:44.239 --> 01:16:47.039 I frankly was expecting the thing to be shelved all together, 1513 01:16:47.640 --> 01:16:49.159 even with all the work that they put into it. 1514 01:16:50.279 --> 01:16:54.039 So yeah, I mean I think I think, uh, I 1515 01:16:54.159 --> 01:16:58.800 think the odds are you know, not slight that that 1516 01:16:58.920 --> 01:17:01.600 you that they come out of this thing with people 1517 01:17:01.840 --> 01:17:04.000 sort of like not thinking very highly of the people 1518 01:17:04.079 --> 01:17:07.239 producing it. But you know, we'll see what they can do. 1519 01:17:07.399 --> 01:17:10.319 I mean, it's a you know, it's a it's a 1520 01:17:10.399 --> 01:17:14.720 total minefield. And you know, I don't think they're going 1521 01:17:14.760 --> 01:17:17.279 to get very close at all to this most latest situation. 1522 01:17:17.640 --> 01:17:25.079 And you know, I, yeah, I wouldn't like to be 1523 01:17:25.079 --> 01:17:28.600 a producer on that thing, because yeah, I think there's 1524 01:17:28.640 --> 01:17:30.359 going to be a lot of criticism coming their way 1525 01:17:30.399 --> 01:17:32.560 when the thing's released. Hopefully not I mean, because like 1526 01:17:32.640 --> 01:17:34.680 I said, there's there's plenty of room for some some 1527 01:17:34.840 --> 01:17:40.880 interesting stuff there. But yeah, tough, tough deal. 1528 01:17:42.359 --> 01:17:45.479 For those who haven't seen it. The graphic it's called 1529 01:17:45.520 --> 01:17:49.920 the Netflix documentary series Mister McMahon, premiering in September twenty fifth, 1530 01:17:49.920 --> 01:17:53.000 if I didn't mention that, and it shows McMahon, an 1531 01:17:53.000 --> 01:17:57.199 image of McMahon with strings and then controlling with the strings, 1532 01:17:57.239 --> 01:18:00.600 the image of a smaller McMahon in the ring, and 1533 01:18:00.720 --> 01:18:04.720 the two words they use only to Todd mastermind Madman, 1534 01:18:05.439 --> 01:18:08.159 and it says from executi producer Bill Simmons and Chris Smith, 1535 01:18:08.199 --> 01:18:11.279 executive producer of The Tiger King, the pitch is mis 1536 01:18:11.399 --> 01:18:13.880 mcmannon documentary series chronicling the rise and fall of w's 1537 01:18:13.920 --> 01:18:16.439 controversial founder is coming to Netflix since the number twenty fifth, 1538 01:18:16.640 --> 01:18:19.960 including interviews with McMahon prior to his resignation, his family 1539 01:18:20.239 --> 01:18:22.479 in some of the most iconic names in wrestling history, 1540 01:18:22.479 --> 01:18:24.920 as well as the journalists wh uncovered the McMahon allegations. 1541 01:18:25.000 --> 01:18:29.279 McMahon's allegations, do you does any of that stand out 1542 01:18:29.279 --> 01:18:31.720 to you as good a matter telling now that I've 1543 01:18:31.720 --> 01:18:34.680 read that out loud to everybody. And then also, how 1544 01:18:34.720 --> 01:18:37.079 do you feel about Bill Simmons and his history of 1545 01:18:37.159 --> 01:18:39.760 covering wrestling and the tone he's taken and the respect 1546 01:18:39.800 --> 01:18:41.600 do you have for him or don't when it comes 1547 01:18:41.640 --> 01:18:44.920 to pro wrestling and his lens if he had a 1548 01:18:44.920 --> 01:18:47.079 big influence on how this is portrayed and framed. 1549 01:18:48.640 --> 01:18:52.000 Okay, a lot to unpack there, a lot of questions, 1550 01:18:52.079 --> 01:18:55.399 but big done there. So as far as the title, first, 1551 01:18:56.680 --> 01:18:59.000 I actually think the title is a is a very 1552 01:19:00.359 --> 01:19:05.359 smart title. You know, like at first glance, it's like, oh, whatever, 1553 01:19:05.479 --> 01:19:07.399 you know mister like you said, you just said, mister LeAnn. 1554 01:19:07.399 --> 01:19:10.159 That'shy they call him on television. But and you know, 1555 01:19:10.279 --> 01:19:12.439 maybe maybe that is there there they intended, but I 1556 01:19:12.479 --> 01:19:15.640 don't think so, Like like when you like, at first like, okay, 1557 01:19:15.720 --> 01:19:18.319 that's his TV character name was mister Alan. They called 1558 01:19:18.359 --> 01:19:20.960 him that. But if you back up and you just 1559 01:19:21.000 --> 01:19:25.000 think of the term mister McMahon. It's it's a distant term. 1560 01:19:25.439 --> 01:19:28.880 It's kind of an off putting term, like mister McMahon. 1561 01:19:29.079 --> 01:19:31.640 It's a little it's a little creepy at a distance, 1562 01:19:31.720 --> 01:19:35.439 like that's he is, mister McMahon, Like he's not he's 1563 01:19:35.479 --> 01:19:38.279 not Vince, he's not you know, like someone, he's this 1564 01:19:38.920 --> 01:19:43.079 person that's framed a certain way, and like that that 1565 01:19:43.279 --> 01:19:46.520 to me, like there's there's something you know, like if 1566 01:19:46.560 --> 01:19:49.359 you if you call a bio you know, biped now 1567 01:19:49.439 --> 01:19:52.319 used term a docucid, and pretty much anyone if you 1568 01:19:52.479 --> 01:19:55.199 just call them mister whatever, it would be a little 1569 01:19:55.239 --> 01:20:02.119 off putting, you know, mister Trump, mister Disney, mister Biden, 1570 01:20:02.399 --> 01:20:03.520 you know, mister. 1571 01:20:03.760 --> 01:20:07.119 Mister Stern, if you're doing an NBA commissioner documentary. 1572 01:20:07.239 --> 01:20:09.760 Yeah, I mean any and obviously mister Rogers is you know, 1573 01:20:09.880 --> 01:20:12.560 is more friendly. But in pretty much any other context, 1574 01:20:12.760 --> 01:20:14.560 you know, like the idea of something just calling someone 1575 01:20:14.680 --> 01:20:18.199 mister something like makes it seem a little unusual. And 1576 01:20:18.279 --> 01:20:20.359 I think, you know, for the arresting Evan, it's nothing, 1577 01:20:20.359 --> 01:20:22.000 it's like, oh, mister man whatever. But I think for 1578 01:20:22.199 --> 01:20:24.960 the person that is not that familiar with him, I 1579 01:20:25.000 --> 01:20:27.000 didn't follow wrestling, which I think they want to also 1580 01:20:27.000 --> 01:20:29.760 appeal to that title I think is interesting. Maybe they 1581 01:20:29.760 --> 01:20:31.279 didn't intend it that way. That that that that that 1582 01:20:31.359 --> 01:20:33.079 struck me when I saw the name for it. As 1583 01:20:33.119 --> 01:20:36.840 far as the two things that you highlighted there, that's 1584 01:20:37.039 --> 01:20:40.039 interesting to me in a different way in the sense that, 1585 01:20:40.159 --> 01:20:41.479 like you know, I talked to earlier, sort of the 1586 01:20:41.640 --> 01:20:47.159 the concern about it coming across as uh to uh 1587 01:20:48.399 --> 01:20:52.159 to fawning, the what are the two names again, rather 1588 01:20:52.159 --> 01:20:54.319 than pulling them up here the. 1589 01:20:55.560 --> 01:20:57.960 To the oh, the mastermind mad Man. 1590 01:20:58.640 --> 01:21:01.920 Yeah, so obviously master is a positive term. I would 1591 01:21:02.079 --> 01:21:06.159 argue mad man is is also a positive term. Like 1592 01:21:06.319 --> 01:21:08.079 It's like, I don't think of mad Man as like 1593 01:21:08.279 --> 01:21:10.880 being pejorative. I think of mad Man as being sort 1594 01:21:10.920 --> 01:21:15.239 of fun and exciting, So, you know, like, at least 1595 01:21:15.279 --> 01:21:16.560 to me, that's the sort of the one I think 1596 01:21:16.600 --> 01:21:19.640 of mad Man. I think of of a Bruiser Brodie, 1597 01:21:19.760 --> 01:21:22.439 you know, or or or the chich or like a 1598 01:21:22.479 --> 01:21:26.119 wrestling character. I think they're you know, their their character. 1599 01:21:26.319 --> 01:21:30.760 There are terms that have a more judgmental tone than 1600 01:21:30.840 --> 01:21:33.840 mad man, and so using up mastermind and mad man, 1601 01:21:34.520 --> 01:21:36.359 I feel kind of has like a positive slan on 1602 01:21:36.439 --> 01:21:44.720 it already there as far as you know, uh, Bill 1603 01:21:44.760 --> 01:21:49.199 Simmons producing it. I mean when Bill Simmons talks about 1604 01:21:49.439 --> 01:21:51.880 he was a longtime wrestling fan and then he was 1605 01:21:51.920 --> 01:21:53.520 not one of these people that you know that that 1606 01:21:53.600 --> 01:21:56.560 didn't follow wrestling very closely for a while and then 1607 01:21:56.640 --> 01:21:58.239 sort of drops in on it all the things. He's 1608 01:21:58.279 --> 01:22:00.720 been paying attention to it more and years, and then 1609 01:22:01.279 --> 01:22:04.439 he got into bed with be and started producing stuff 1610 01:22:04.479 --> 01:22:06.680 with them while Vince was still in charge and the 1611 01:22:06.720 --> 01:22:09.239 product was still bad, and he would put over the 1612 01:22:09.319 --> 01:22:12.520 product as you know, as having improved and being good 1613 01:22:12.920 --> 01:22:15.079 before it actually got there. I think because of the 1614 01:22:15.119 --> 01:22:19.520 relationship with them, I think I'm someone is the you know, 1615 01:22:19.720 --> 01:22:23.279 like sort of the category of people that like know 1616 01:22:23.600 --> 01:22:25.680 a lot of things about wrestling but don't understand wrestling 1617 01:22:25.720 --> 01:22:28.399 that well, which is a pretty broad category. There are 1618 01:22:28.399 --> 01:22:32.159 a lot of people in that category. And so yeah, 1619 01:22:32.399 --> 01:22:36.039 with that said, well, I don't think that highly of 1620 01:22:36.760 --> 01:22:40.039 him in terms of his opinions on wrestling. When he's 1621 01:22:40.159 --> 01:22:42.359 come he's produced a number of documentaries and he's produced 1622 01:22:42.359 --> 01:22:43.960 a lot of you know, great documentaries. Really, I mean, 1623 01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:45.680 that's one of you could argue that's like one of 1624 01:22:45.680 --> 01:22:47.239 the things that's the most successful. It's producing a lot 1625 01:22:47.279 --> 01:22:50.199 of great documentaries, and he's like, he's been involved in 1626 01:22:50.279 --> 01:22:54.479 some very good wrestling documentaries. So you know, that's a 1627 01:22:54.520 --> 01:22:58.720 definite positive for him and would give you more hope 1628 01:22:58.760 --> 01:23:01.119 in terms of a project like that. You know that 1629 01:23:02.319 --> 01:23:02.880 that history. 1630 01:23:10.600 --> 01:23:12.960 Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back, 1631 01:23:13.159 --> 01:23:16.199 relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share 1632 01:23:16.239 --> 01:23:18.560 your passion? Do you want to be topped off the 1633 01:23:18.640 --> 01:23:20.960 ledge after a segment that has you wondering what the 1634 01:23:21.079 --> 01:23:23.439 heck are they thinking? Do you want to join a 1635 01:23:23.520 --> 01:23:26.560 discussion on what AW is doing right and what they 1636 01:23:26.640 --> 01:23:29.479 could do to improve? Then join me Joel and me 1637 01:23:29.640 --> 01:23:32.439 Greg for the All of THEE Conversation Club every Friday 1638 01:23:32.479 --> 01:23:36.159 on the pw torch Live Cast feed. Search pw torch 1639 01:23:36.279 --> 01:23:39.159 in your podcast app and subscribe to pw torch Daily 1640 01:23:39.239 --> 01:23:42.319 Cast or stream our shows directly from pw torch dot com. 1641 01:23:42.800 --> 01:23:46.479 Find full details on the PW Torchdailycast lineup at pw 1642 01:23:46.680 --> 01:23:48.279 torchdailycast dot com. 1643 01:24:00.399 --> 01:24:02.960 Very good, I will thread you for a rundown of 1644 01:24:03.239 --> 01:24:05.279 NXT and then we'll preview No Mercy. 1645 01:24:08.680 --> 01:24:14.760 Sure, so NXT started with with Fallon Henley and j C. 1646 01:24:14.960 --> 01:24:18.840 Jane Uh beating lash Legend and Jaka Jackson thanks to 1647 01:24:18.880 --> 01:24:22.279 help from from Jasmine Nicks at ringside, and they gave 1648 01:24:22.359 --> 01:24:25.119 them time but it was not good. They did another 1649 01:24:25.159 --> 01:24:29.720 of those backstage segments where they pack one thing onto another. 1650 01:24:29.960 --> 01:24:32.159 So first a Chantay, the Adonis and Eddie Thorpe had 1651 01:24:32.239 --> 01:24:34.560 a conversation where Thorpe was talking to some women and 1652 01:24:34.880 --> 01:24:37.279 he told Chantey they were just friends and Ashante was 1653 01:24:37.319 --> 01:24:39.119 looking to get with them and not really thinking about 1654 01:24:39.399 --> 01:24:44.760 women as being potential friends. So then as that sort 1655 01:24:44.800 --> 01:24:47.640 of wraps up, you see Brooks Jensen walk across the 1656 01:24:47.680 --> 01:24:49.760 back of the screen. He attacks a no Fay to 1657 01:24:49.800 --> 01:24:57.880 set up his match with with with Blade. Uh Uh. Later, 1658 01:24:58.479 --> 01:25:02.880 Karmen Petrovitch beat is He Dame another week match. Is 1659 01:25:02.960 --> 01:25:04.960 He Dame is a little distinct from some of the 1660 01:25:05.000 --> 01:25:07.760 other women because of her height, but she's not coming 1661 01:25:07.800 --> 01:25:10.920 along very well in the ring. And you know, they've 1662 01:25:10.960 --> 01:25:14.520 had a lot of women there that have that you've 1663 01:25:14.560 --> 01:25:18.600 seen a lot of improvement in over the years, and uh, 1664 01:25:18.680 --> 01:25:25.600 she she's not one of them, unfortunately, So uh that's that. 1665 01:25:26.439 --> 01:25:26.560 Uh. 1666 01:25:27.479 --> 01:25:32.399 Jada Parker did a sit down interview, and this Jada 1667 01:25:32.439 --> 01:25:35.399 Parker interesting storyline development. So this Jada Parker is actually 1668 01:25:35.479 --> 01:25:38.319 a different person than the earlier Jada Parker, but she's 1669 01:25:38.439 --> 01:25:41.319 played by the same actress, So you just, you know, 1670 01:25:41.399 --> 01:25:44.479 you gotta pretend that person wasn't there. New person has 1671 01:25:44.560 --> 01:25:47.279 walked in here. So the original Data Parker was from 1672 01:25:47.319 --> 01:25:50.640 the streets, and she did promos and dilapidated buildings and 1673 01:25:50.760 --> 01:25:54.000 she would scowl, menacing all the time, menacingly all the time, 1674 01:25:54.520 --> 01:25:57.720 and speak in you know, in in slang. And the 1675 01:25:57.840 --> 01:26:00.239 new Jada Parker won a gauntlet match, and now she 1676 01:26:00.319 --> 01:26:02.720 smiles all the time and talks about a college soccer 1677 01:26:02.800 --> 01:26:05.199 background and how she was getting scholarship offers back when 1678 01:26:05.239 --> 01:26:12.199 she was a young kid. Despite that weirdness. Uh, she was. 1679 01:26:12.479 --> 01:26:14.760 The good news is I thought she was. She seemed 1680 01:26:14.880 --> 01:26:16.960 very natural in the new role, just like she seemed 1681 01:26:17.000 --> 01:26:19.399 very natural in the old role. I thought she was 1682 01:26:19.439 --> 01:26:24.760 able to portray a menace when it came to, you know, 1683 01:26:24.920 --> 01:26:26.720 to the heel role. And I thought she came across 1684 01:26:26.760 --> 01:26:30.239 as likable and and and a good talker in the 1685 01:26:30.319 --> 01:26:34.800 in the babyface role as well. So, uh, it was 1686 01:26:35.000 --> 01:26:37.439 it was an encouraging, encouraging sign. She she's really one 1687 01:26:37.479 --> 01:26:40.920 of the most talented performers they have in developmental and 1688 01:26:41.159 --> 01:26:43.359 you know, came out of nowhere and she's been doing 1689 01:26:43.479 --> 01:26:48.119 very well for herself. Anyway, Uh, Roxane Press came in 1690 01:26:48.359 --> 01:26:53.159 and started badmouthing her, so she slapped Roxanne and uh 1691 01:26:53.439 --> 01:26:57.159 Parker then had words with somebody off screen and uh 1692 01:26:57.920 --> 01:27:01.720 perhaps you know spec Oh, okay, So then because people 1693 01:27:01.760 --> 01:27:05.920 were speculating it as Juliet, but that's that's that's settled. 1694 01:27:06.319 --> 01:27:09.239 It is it is not. It is not Julia, it 1695 01:27:09.359 --> 01:27:12.159 was you. And uh, well maybe I was thinking maybe 1696 01:27:12.239 --> 01:27:13.520 Julia was going to show up to it to help 1697 01:27:13.640 --> 01:27:16.279 Roxanne win it no mercy, but maybe you will show 1698 01:27:16.359 --> 01:27:21.319 up to to uh to help help Roxanne when. 1699 01:27:21.319 --> 01:27:26.479 At I'm signed a n D A okay. 1700 01:27:27.119 --> 01:27:31.600 Okay, so that's that's possibility at uh at no mercy 1701 01:27:33.279 --> 01:27:40.680 And uh, let's see here the the D'Angelo family beat 1702 01:27:40.800 --> 01:27:44.399 the now quartercrash Crew when Luca Crusofino pinned Miles Born. 1703 01:27:45.119 --> 01:27:47.880 It was fine. This is a backdrop for another story 1704 01:27:48.079 --> 01:27:52.119 which I found amusing. So as the di'angelo family was 1705 01:27:52.439 --> 01:27:57.640 warming up backstage, two older guys from the family told 1706 01:27:57.680 --> 01:27:59.920 Tony they needed to tell him something, and he blew 1707 01:28:00.079 --> 01:28:02.000 them off, and the men are like, you know, we 1708 01:28:02.119 --> 01:28:04.439 really need to tell you something. Tony blew them off again. 1709 01:28:04.800 --> 01:28:06.560 So then he goes to ringside for the match. They 1710 01:28:06.640 --> 01:28:08.680 come out again to talk to him, and this time 1711 01:28:08.760 --> 01:28:11.199 he immediately leaves, and so he leaves. He never comes 1712 01:28:11.239 --> 01:28:13.560 back for this thing. Then later on the show, he 1713 01:28:13.640 --> 01:28:17.439 shows up the D'Angelo family restaurant and first thing he 1714 01:28:17.560 --> 01:28:20.960 asks is why I was called here? You told me 1715 01:28:21.039 --> 01:28:24.159 this was urgent. So in summary, if you tell Tony 1716 01:28:24.199 --> 01:28:25.880 you really need to talk to him, he may refuse 1717 01:28:25.920 --> 01:28:28.119 to even let you finish your sentence. But if you 1718 01:28:28.239 --> 01:28:31.079 tell him it's urgent, he'll drop everything he's doing and 1719 01:28:31.159 --> 01:28:33.960 drive to another location without even asking you to finish 1720 01:28:34.039 --> 01:28:35.760 the sentence to tell you what in fact it is. 1721 01:28:36.399 --> 01:28:38.760 But he knows this isn't really important, but it's urgent. 1722 01:28:39.119 --> 01:28:41.359 So I'm going to drive somewhere else and you can 1723 01:28:41.399 --> 01:28:45.399 tell me once I get there what's happening here? Perplexing 1724 01:28:45.479 --> 01:28:48.479 individual as Tony Dean. So anyway, he was told Obafemi 1725 01:28:48.680 --> 01:28:51.600 was at the restaurant and he's sitting there in a 1726 01:28:51.680 --> 01:28:54.319 suit mining his own business drinking the glass of wine. 1727 01:28:55.199 --> 01:28:58.399 Why this was an emergency, I'm not sure. Maybe they're 1728 01:28:58.439 --> 01:29:01.880 really racist, you know, freaking out at a nicely adress 1729 01:29:01.920 --> 01:29:03.800 dude sitting at a table in the restaurant. There weren't 1730 01:29:03.800 --> 01:29:06.960 even other customers at the surrounding tables, Like, I don't 1731 01:29:07.000 --> 01:29:08.840 know what their problem was with this guy, but you know, 1732 01:29:08.920 --> 01:29:11.119 he rushes there and he sits down. They have a 1733 01:29:11.159 --> 01:29:13.560 few polite words about their match on Sunday, and family left. 1734 01:29:13.960 --> 01:29:16.399 So Tony, I mean, he probably should have just followed 1735 01:29:16.399 --> 01:29:19.119 his first instinct and just ignored those dudes because they, 1736 01:29:19.359 --> 01:29:22.000 you know, they were just I mean, yeah, I don't know. 1737 01:29:22.159 --> 01:29:24.920 Those guys are sketchy. I you know, I don't like 1738 01:29:24.960 --> 01:29:28.079 calling people bigots, but I think they're biggots. Pete Don 1739 01:29:28.199 --> 01:29:32.039 did an interview talking about wrestling Trick Williams again Wesley 1740 01:29:32.079 --> 01:29:35.239 and Zachary Wentz that had an in ring segment another 1741 01:29:35.319 --> 01:29:38.000 Vincent Man special where you just did this personal breakup 1742 01:29:38.000 --> 01:29:40.119 angle for a heated feud, and so they stood in 1743 01:29:40.119 --> 01:29:43.560 the ring together fifteen minutes and took turns talking. Wentz 1744 01:29:43.720 --> 01:29:47.239 was upset about the portrayal, Lee was more just blowing 1745 01:29:47.279 --> 01:29:49.840 them off as a cocky heel and a big part 1746 01:29:49.880 --> 01:29:53.600 of this for Lee was burying TNA and the portrayal 1747 01:29:53.600 --> 01:30:00.640 of TNA I found interesting because because I figure he wins, 1748 01:30:01.039 --> 01:30:04.840 but it sure doesn't make TNA look very good if 1749 01:30:04.880 --> 01:30:07.920 he wins. After he basically you know, called TNA second 1750 01:30:08.000 --> 01:30:10.840 rate and and uh and you know, made it sound 1751 01:30:10.880 --> 01:30:12.720 like it's, you know, something bad for Zachary wants to 1752 01:30:12.760 --> 01:30:16.279 go back to TNA. So that was an an interesting 1753 01:30:17.680 --> 01:30:23.159 an interesting choice. Colnie Jordan beat Rosemary, who debut as 1754 01:30:23.159 --> 01:30:25.159 a mystery opponent. It was cool to see Rosemary get 1755 01:30:25.199 --> 01:30:27.840 a shot on w television because I mean, she does 1756 01:30:27.880 --> 01:30:29.760 a better job than anyone with her type of gimmick, 1757 01:30:29.920 --> 01:30:33.920 and I think she's you know, done a on balance, 1758 01:30:33.960 --> 01:30:36.600 a very good job in in TNA over the years. 1759 01:30:37.239 --> 01:30:39.880 The idea was Jordan was taking out one spooky opponent 1760 01:30:39.960 --> 01:30:43.720 before taking on another, and so then afterwards, after she 1761 01:30:43.800 --> 01:30:47.239 beat Rosemary, they played audio of wee Y Chew laughing 1762 01:30:47.680 --> 01:30:50.840 and Jordan like, you know, like Seth rollins and and 1763 01:30:51.000 --> 01:30:54.920 Bray White had to act just terrified, as if anyone 1764 01:30:55.000 --> 01:30:57.640 could possibly be scared of Wendy Chew with her pajamas 1765 01:30:57.680 --> 01:31:02.279 and pillow laughing but she, you know, was freaked out. 1766 01:31:02.439 --> 01:31:06.479 Colnie Jordan was or a mensa go into an argument 1767 01:31:06.520 --> 01:31:09.279 buying Peman Junior. So they're gonna feud. Chase you was 1768 01:31:09.319 --> 01:31:14.560 celebrating their title win when Duke Hudson and uh Riley 1769 01:31:14.600 --> 01:31:18.119 Osborne were sad about having lost, and Axiom Nathan Fraser 1770 01:31:18.159 --> 01:31:20.800 showed up and did a very scripted promo where they 1771 01:31:20.800 --> 01:31:27.239 finished each other's sentences. I the thing that's that's so funny, 1772 01:31:27.319 --> 01:31:29.680 but about about uh And I guess it's sort of 1773 01:31:29.720 --> 01:31:32.159 a positive in a sense because like, there are all 1774 01:31:32.239 --> 01:31:34.840 these things that that used to happen all the time 1775 01:31:34.880 --> 01:31:38.640 on the main roster with Vincent Land there, and so 1776 01:31:38.840 --> 01:31:40.640 many of them have gone away, not all of them, 1777 01:31:40.760 --> 01:31:42.560 you know, particularly the finishes, but so many of them 1778 01:31:42.560 --> 01:31:45.239 have gone away. And I watched NXT and and ryding like, 1779 01:31:45.279 --> 01:31:47.239 oh yeah, they don't do that on the main roster anymore. 1780 01:31:47.279 --> 01:31:49.000 Isn't it great? They don't do that anymore in the 1781 01:31:49.039 --> 01:31:51.359 main roster. I don't need to really need to see 1782 01:31:51.359 --> 01:31:54.520 on NXT either, But it's you know, it's nice that 1783 01:31:54.720 --> 01:31:57.760 it's it's less common on the main roster. Brooks Jensen 1784 01:31:57.800 --> 01:32:00.520 beat Blade in a quick match. It was fine, but 1785 01:32:00.640 --> 01:32:03.039 Jensen is better as a face and a heel hank 1786 01:32:03.119 --> 01:32:05.439 a tank on an argument with OTM, so they're gonna wrestle. 1787 01:32:06.079 --> 01:32:09.079 Joe Coffee beat Javan Evans with the help of other 1788 01:32:09.159 --> 01:32:12.800 members of GALLAS, so it looks like Evans will be 1789 01:32:13.000 --> 01:32:18.880 enlisting help and UH and coming back after them. Pretty 1790 01:32:18.880 --> 01:32:21.439 good match, best match on the show. And the final 1791 01:32:21.880 --> 01:32:25.840 segment was a Joe Hendry concert and he as He's 1792 01:32:25.920 --> 01:32:29.640 wanted to do sang a derogatory song about Ethan Page, 1793 01:32:30.520 --> 01:32:35.520 basically making fun of Ethan Page's wacky past gimmicks and 1794 01:32:35.680 --> 01:32:40.840 eclectic interests. I thought it made Page more likable, actually, 1795 01:32:42.000 --> 01:32:45.279 but who knows how the average person is going to 1796 01:32:45.319 --> 01:32:47.920 take that. And then Page came out he was unhappy and. 1797 01:32:49.560 --> 01:32:49.680 Uh. 1798 01:32:49.760 --> 01:32:53.039 Then Ava came out and she said that because Paige 1799 01:32:53.239 --> 01:32:56.800 was disrespectful to w a B officials, Trick Williams would 1800 01:32:56.800 --> 01:33:00.960 be the special guest referee for the uh Page versus 1801 01:33:01.279 --> 01:33:05.560 Hendry match. And then Henry hit Page with his choke 1802 01:33:05.640 --> 01:33:09.039 slam and Trick counted the pen So same game they 1803 01:33:09.079 --> 01:33:13.439 were doing there with Ora Mensa. And then Peter Dunn 1804 01:33:13.520 --> 01:33:16.760 also made some threatening remarks sort of away from the 1805 01:33:16.880 --> 01:33:20.279 ring at the close of the show. So yeah, that 1806 01:33:20.399 --> 01:33:23.800 was n XT this week. A lot going on as 1807 01:33:23.960 --> 01:33:24.960 uh as usual. 1808 01:33:26.760 --> 01:33:28.640 Yeah, So how does a Norm Mercy look? 1809 01:33:33.600 --> 01:33:36.680 I would say not that great. Hopefully I am wrong 1810 01:33:36.760 --> 01:33:38.520 about that, you know, in terms of looking at at 1811 01:33:38.840 --> 01:33:41.840 match quality, because you know, the main event is Ethan 1812 01:33:41.880 --> 01:33:45.640 Page and Joe Henry and I just don't think they're 1813 01:33:45.640 --> 01:33:48.479 gonna have your usual main event quality match. Hopefully I'm 1814 01:33:48.479 --> 01:33:51.039 wrong about that. But neither of those guys are are 1815 01:33:51.680 --> 01:33:53.800 you know, great wrestlers. I think Ethan Page is a 1816 01:33:53.840 --> 01:33:56.199 good wrestler. He can have a strong match with a good, 1817 01:33:56.479 --> 01:34:01.199 good opponent, but Joe Henry's is not particularly opponent. You know, 1818 01:34:01.319 --> 01:34:03.720 Roxham president Teta park will be probably be pretty good, 1819 01:34:03.760 --> 01:34:06.800 but they're both you know, well they're not both pretty inexperienced. 1820 01:34:06.800 --> 01:34:08.920 With Jada Parker is pretty inexperienced, even though she's good, 1821 01:34:09.079 --> 01:34:10.800 So I wouldn't count on her to have like a 1822 01:34:11.079 --> 01:34:14.159 you know, a great match. Chase you and Frasier Axiom 1823 01:34:14.199 --> 01:34:17.920 should be a strong match over me and an Tony 1824 01:34:17.960 --> 01:34:23.520 DeAngelo should should be good. Colonie Jordan Wendy to probably 1825 01:34:23.520 --> 01:34:26.279 won't be very good, and Lee and Zachary went so 1826 01:34:26.399 --> 01:34:28.399 probably be the best mess match in the show. So 1827 01:34:28.760 --> 01:34:31.439 it doesn't it doesn't feel like a a super show 1828 01:34:31.560 --> 01:34:35.640 on paper, and it doesn't feel like a uh, you know, 1829 01:34:36.000 --> 01:34:39.920 terribly anticipated match either. It's also five matches out of 1830 01:34:39.960 --> 01:34:42.760 sixer titles on the line, and that's not even all 1831 01:34:42.800 --> 01:34:46.880 the titles, which is pretty pretty stupid for a you know, 1832 01:34:47.000 --> 01:34:49.479 one week, you know, one show a week developmental to 1833 01:34:49.520 --> 01:34:53.680 have that many titles. But yeah, also go through the 1834 01:34:53.720 --> 01:34:55.720 matches that Ethan papers Joe Henry. I could see that 1835 01:34:55.760 --> 01:34:58.600 one going either way. They seem very interested in Henry, 1836 01:34:58.680 --> 01:35:00.720 but he is still a teenage guy for now, and 1837 01:35:00.800 --> 01:35:03.840 Trick Linkers is a Challenger and it would makes more 1838 01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:05.840 sense for him the Challenge Page than Henry if he's 1839 01:35:05.880 --> 01:35:09.520 getting the title back. So I think Page retains, but 1840 01:35:10.680 --> 01:35:13.960 who knows. As I mentioned with ROX and President Data 1841 01:35:14.000 --> 01:35:15.920 Parker for the woman's title, they teased the mister person 1842 01:35:16.000 --> 01:35:18.560 getting involved and they love to book an excuse for 1843 01:35:18.600 --> 01:35:22.039 the finish, so that person costing Jada would make sense, 1844 01:35:22.079 --> 01:35:25.319 whether it's Julia or Stephanie Vaker or or Wade Keller, 1845 01:35:26.560 --> 01:35:28.680 Chase You and Nathan Fraser and Axiom, they've been teasing 1846 01:35:28.720 --> 01:35:31.199 a Fraser Axiom break up for a long time, and 1847 01:35:32.119 --> 01:35:34.199 them losing here and then splitting makes the most sense. 1848 01:35:35.600 --> 01:35:38.800 Femi and DiAngelo. Femi's delivered every time in the big match, 1849 01:35:39.000 --> 01:35:42.880 and I don't expect this to be an exception. I'd 1850 01:35:42.960 --> 01:35:47.319 be very surprised if if Emi doesn't retain, though, and 1851 01:35:47.359 --> 01:35:51.560 then Colonie Jordan wenty Chu Jordan will retain. I think 1852 01:35:51.640 --> 01:35:53.600 they can have a good match if they don't get 1853 01:35:53.960 --> 01:35:57.800 bogged down in stupidity, but I think they're gonna get 1854 01:35:57.800 --> 01:36:01.239 bogged down in stupidity. And then Lee and Wentz definitely 1855 01:36:01.239 --> 01:36:02.960 the favorite to be match of the night is mentioned. 1856 01:36:03.439 --> 01:36:06.720 Lee just turned and he's the NXT guy and he 1857 01:36:06.800 --> 01:36:09.560 has the most upside, so I think he wins, although 1858 01:36:09.760 --> 01:36:12.680 the way that Lee buried TNA and his burial of 1859 01:36:12.720 --> 01:36:17.239 once gives me pause. And uh yeah, that's the only 1860 01:36:17.800 --> 01:36:20.640 non title match of the bunch, all. 1861 01:36:20.600 --> 01:36:24.000 Right, give yourself a reason to look forward to going 1862 01:36:24.000 --> 01:36:26.600 into the mailbox each week with a PW Torch newsletter 1863 01:36:26.760 --> 01:36:31.359 paper copy. Subscription details at PW torch dot com Slash 1864 01:36:31.399 --> 01:36:34.199 paper Copy. It's twelve pages every week, packed with my 1865 01:36:34.359 --> 01:36:37.239 TV reports along with exclusive features such as my cover 1866 01:36:37.359 --> 01:36:39.600 story on the top story of the week, our pay 1867 01:36:39.640 --> 01:36:43.000 per view roundtable reviews from the Torch staff, Exclusive feature 1868 01:36:43.039 --> 01:36:47.119 length columns from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan 1869 01:36:47.199 --> 01:36:50.920 Coonahan and Zach Hadorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news, 1870 01:36:51.239 --> 01:36:55.399 and more. PW torch dot com slash paper Copy. Take 1871 01:36:55.439 --> 01:36:58.479 a break from screen time and settle in every week 1872 01:36:58.800 --> 01:37:01.359 with the Megando suppressling news in analysis with a Pro 1873 01:37:01.479 --> 01:37:04.840 Wrestling Torch newsletter paper copy edition in the year twenty 1874 01:37:04.920 --> 01:37:07.720 twenty two. You can get a full year of home 1875 01:37:07.760 --> 01:37:11.159 delivery for just ninety nine dollars, or try us for 1876 01:37:11.319 --> 01:37:14.960 an eight week trial subscription. PW torch dot Com slash 1877 01:37:15.199 --> 01:37:24.359 paper Copy. Let's just smacked out from last Friday as 1878 01:37:24.439 --> 01:37:28.880 they head towards Bash in Berlin. They were in Washington, 1879 01:37:28.960 --> 01:37:32.840 d C. At Capitol One Arena, Great Arena, great town, Todd. 1880 01:37:32.880 --> 01:37:36.159 I hear, yes, lovely place. I didn't go to the show. 1881 01:37:36.000 --> 01:37:39.239 Though, Yeah, well, I mean, who would who would brave it? 1882 01:37:40.800 --> 01:37:42.920 So what does that mean, be. 1883 01:37:43.000 --> 01:37:44.520 Brave enough to go to DC? I hear all these 1884 01:37:44.600 --> 01:37:50.800 terrible things. No that's not true, right, whatever, No, I'm kidding, 1885 01:37:52.000 --> 01:37:54.520 all right. So yeah, so we're opened with the Grayson 1886 01:37:54.840 --> 01:37:58.560 Waller Effect and Kevin Owens as their guest. 1887 01:37:59.359 --> 01:38:01.439 What do you think, Yeah, it is kind of it 1888 01:38:01.560 --> 01:38:03.439 is kind of odd when you're when you're from d C, 1889 01:38:03.680 --> 01:38:05.560 that like d C has sort of become like this 1890 01:38:05.720 --> 01:38:09.079 pejorative thing in like political circles, and you know, politicians 1891 01:38:09.119 --> 01:38:11.159 will always talk about how terrible d C is and 1892 01:38:11.239 --> 01:38:13.079 I don't have this DC mentality and I want to 1893 01:38:13.079 --> 01:38:15.680 be these d C people, and you know, it doesn't 1894 01:38:15.720 --> 01:38:17.560 really matter in the context, Like it's still like a 1895 01:38:17.600 --> 01:38:19.720 relatively small metro area of relch of other people, but 1896 01:38:19.920 --> 01:38:21.640 no one ever stands up for it. Isn't like you know, 1897 01:38:21.680 --> 01:38:24.560 when like Trump allegedly said bad things about Milwaukee and 1898 01:38:24.720 --> 01:38:27.560 like everyone piled on, like you can just trash d 1899 01:38:27.680 --> 01:38:31.119 C left and right, and uh and nobody will be 1900 01:38:31.159 --> 01:38:36.199 bothered by it. So uh, it's too It's it's too bad. 1901 01:38:37.800 --> 01:38:39.800 And did you ask about the first segment or did 1902 01:38:39.840 --> 01:38:43.239 we did? Okay, Yeah, I thought it was an effective segment. 1903 01:38:43.600 --> 01:38:45.399 You know, you had the further teasing of issues between 1904 01:38:45.439 --> 01:38:48.920 Wallnert theory as well as Cody and Owen's one of 1905 01:38:49.000 --> 01:38:51.920 the things that that the Triple h has done well 1906 01:38:52.000 --> 01:38:54.479 to maintain interest during his time running things is he's 1907 01:38:54.640 --> 01:38:58.640 always doing these weeks week stories, teasing turns, and in 1908 01:38:58.720 --> 01:39:01.039 the long term that may and issues as far as 1909 01:39:01.119 --> 01:39:04.239 turning people too often and just watering down the meaning 1910 01:39:04.319 --> 01:39:08.000 of the turns and feeling too redundant. But for the 1911 01:39:08.079 --> 01:39:09.760 time being, one of the hooks for fans on every 1912 01:39:09.800 --> 01:39:12.359 show is there's you know, constant chapters and all these 1913 01:39:12.399 --> 01:39:16.159 different turns that are going on, and it makes it, 1914 01:39:16.279 --> 01:39:18.520 you know, like it's wrestling is frequently described as a 1915 01:39:20.000 --> 01:39:22.199 a soap opera for men, and this is, you know, 1916 01:39:22.359 --> 01:39:24.960 a sort of a classic example for it where it's just, 1917 01:39:25.079 --> 01:39:27.199 you know, week to week, you got these you know, 1918 01:39:27.239 --> 01:39:29.880 little drama things and you know things are you know, 1919 01:39:30.000 --> 01:39:33.159 moving one one direction or another with all these different characters, 1920 01:39:35.199 --> 01:39:37.279 and it, you know, it makes sense to flag Owen's 1921 01:39:37.439 --> 01:39:40.840 history of turning on people and his his defense of 1922 01:39:40.920 --> 01:39:41.880 himself was amusing. 1923 01:39:43.399 --> 01:39:46.000 I was amused when he asked if he could go 1924 01:39:46.119 --> 01:39:48.640 punch Grason Waller and you know, you expect all this 1925 01:39:48.760 --> 01:39:51.479 to be like no, no, now, you know, we have 1926 01:39:51.600 --> 01:39:53.880 to have decorum, and he goes, just make it quick. 1927 01:39:54.800 --> 01:39:57.960 Wait wait, wait, you were expecting that. I was definitely 1928 01:39:58.079 --> 01:39:59.439 expecting him to sign off on that. 1929 01:40:00.079 --> 01:40:03.439 Well, oh, you would expect an authority figure to frown 1930 01:40:03.520 --> 01:40:05.880 on such a thing, as opposed to encourage it unless 1931 01:40:05.920 --> 01:40:06.319 they are. 1932 01:40:06.399 --> 01:40:09.000 The way the way he set it up here, it 1933 01:40:09.079 --> 01:40:10.760 certainly seemed like he was gonna sign he was going 1934 01:40:10.800 --> 01:40:11.560 to sign off on it. 1935 01:40:12.600 --> 01:40:14.079 Well, it was great, great delivery from all this. 1936 01:40:17.239 --> 01:40:19.279 I mean, you know, it's just there's a natural setup. 1937 01:40:19.800 --> 01:40:22.560 Well, yeah, so you don't have to agree with me. 1938 01:40:22.640 --> 01:40:24.680 I thought all this His timing was really good here 1939 01:40:25.720 --> 01:40:27.319 in the way that he delivered the line, and it 1940 01:40:27.359 --> 01:40:30.119 added a little extra punch to uh, to the punch, 1941 01:40:30.199 --> 01:40:33.760 so to speak. All right, then Ellie Knight Santos Escobar 1942 01:40:34.760 --> 01:40:36.359 Night Ones in nine minutes, retaining title. 1943 01:40:36.399 --> 01:40:38.479 What then? I thought it worked for what it was. 1944 01:40:38.880 --> 01:40:41.119 They did a good job making you think that maybe 1945 01:40:41.399 --> 01:40:44.680 Santos will win despite it seeming unlikely when the match started. 1946 01:40:46.159 --> 01:40:49.399 All right then, Uh. The promo for the barbershop with Carmelo, 1947 01:40:49.560 --> 01:40:53.920 Hayes Andreday barged In had some words with him. Hayes 1948 01:40:53.920 --> 01:40:55.640 complained that the doors weren't locked when he was talking. 1949 01:40:55.680 --> 01:40:56.279 Any thoughts on that. 1950 01:40:57.960 --> 01:40:59.800 We're getting more on Todi Carmelo matches. 1951 01:41:00.640 --> 01:41:06.199 Yeah, all right? Backstage segment with Berto and Angel and 1952 01:41:06.560 --> 01:41:09.520 Electra and Escobar interacting with them, and then we had 1953 01:41:09.520 --> 01:41:12.119 a baron Corban Apollo Cruz, the Hottest act and pro wrestling. 1954 01:41:12.199 --> 01:41:14.239 Those two man can't wait to see what they do, 1955 01:41:14.359 --> 01:41:19.119 are going to do every week getting h interjecting themselves, 1956 01:41:19.439 --> 01:41:20.600 setting up something for later. 1957 01:41:20.680 --> 01:41:23.119 Any any thoughts on that they need a cheesy tag 1958 01:41:23.199 --> 01:41:29.840 team name like you know or something like that the Express, Yeah, 1959 01:41:29.960 --> 01:41:32.359 just you know, chees a lookout of dissension and you 1960 01:41:32.439 --> 01:41:33.840 know that we're continuing to sue. 1961 01:41:33.720 --> 01:41:39.159 With ac AC dash BC takeoff on a c DC. 1962 01:41:41.840 --> 01:41:42.239 I like that. 1963 01:41:42.399 --> 01:41:44.680 You explain it for me. Yeah, thanks, Wayne, I wasn't 1964 01:41:44.720 --> 01:41:45.960 sure what was happening there. 1965 01:41:46.600 --> 01:41:46.960 I like it. 1966 01:41:47.119 --> 01:41:48.560 I like it. I would have liked it better if 1967 01:41:48.560 --> 01:41:50.199 you didn't have the explanation at the end, but. 1968 01:41:50.319 --> 01:41:52.640 It wasn't for I knew I I figured you'd get it. 1969 01:41:52.680 --> 01:41:55.159 I was highly confident, but our few fixed listeners based 1970 01:41:55.159 --> 01:41:56.640 on the mail bank, who probably could use a little 1971 01:41:56.640 --> 01:41:57.119 help sometimes. 1972 01:41:57.319 --> 01:42:00.439 Wait, wait, come on, now, you tell me I mean 1973 01:42:00.479 --> 01:42:03.319 that that is not true. That is not true? 1974 01:42:04.119 --> 01:42:04.199 Right? 1975 01:42:05.239 --> 01:42:05.600 All right? 1976 01:42:06.640 --> 01:42:09.600 Then you're a feisty mood today that that that thing 1977 01:42:09.680 --> 01:42:11.840 you did earlier and now this Geez. 1978 01:42:13.119 --> 01:42:17.600 Blair Blair Davenport Alpa firelid on against Jay Cargo beyond 1979 01:42:17.680 --> 01:42:19.159 Blair and nail me, nail. 1980 01:42:19.039 --> 01:42:22.479 Me in fact, in fact, Wade, I'm gonna I'm gonna 1981 01:42:22.479 --> 01:42:24.239 do you one better. That is their new nickname here 1982 01:42:24.279 --> 01:42:25.840 on the Fix, A C B C. That's what they're 1983 01:42:25.840 --> 01:42:26.640 getting called from here. 1984 01:42:26.680 --> 01:42:31.319 Good good. So yeah, what do you what do you 1985 01:42:31.319 --> 01:42:31.600 think it is? 1986 01:42:31.600 --> 01:42:34.560 The match? I thought it was fun. Yeah, I thought 1987 01:42:34.600 --> 01:42:37.119 they worked well together, you know, more showcase for the 1988 01:42:37.199 --> 01:42:38.720 baby Faces, but yeah, that's cool. 1989 01:42:39.319 --> 01:42:44.720 Yeah, Okay. Then the Bloodline made their ring entrance and 1990 01:42:44.840 --> 01:42:49.359 he presented the take team title from Jacob Too to 1991 01:42:49.760 --> 01:42:52.760 uh Tongala. What do you think of the segment? 1992 01:42:53.479 --> 01:42:54.960 I thought it was fine. There was a better week 1993 01:42:55.000 --> 01:42:56.760 for Solo as far as fitting into his role than 1994 01:42:56.960 --> 01:42:57.600 some of the other ones. 1995 01:42:59.000 --> 01:43:01.159 And and on one attense scale like eight, nine to 1996 01:43:01.199 --> 01:43:06.560 ten being very successful, seven being ah get by or 1997 01:43:06.960 --> 01:43:09.359 other numbers that you can associate proper terms with, where 1998 01:43:09.439 --> 01:43:11.119 is he with for you right now? 1999 01:43:14.319 --> 01:43:14.520 Four? 2000 01:43:15.680 --> 01:43:20.279 Yeah? I think that's that's probably hde Land Like, okay. 2001 01:43:20.560 --> 01:43:22.600 Sounds like you've more I feel like, even more charitable 2002 01:43:22.600 --> 01:43:23.039 to him than that. 2003 01:43:23.199 --> 01:43:25.000 But really I feel like I've been hard on him, 2004 01:43:25.560 --> 01:43:28.239 like I I'll criticize and then I'll and I'll just 2005 01:43:28.279 --> 01:43:33.399 be like it's it's it's enough to get by. He's okay, 2006 01:43:33.800 --> 01:43:36.560 but I think the tone sinks. Okay, from a five 2007 01:43:36.600 --> 01:43:39.800 a little under a five. Okay, I'll be I'll be 2008 01:43:39.920 --> 01:43:46.720 bold here Todd four point five. Yeah, I know you 2009 01:43:46.880 --> 01:43:47.039 like that? 2010 01:43:47.760 --> 01:43:48.119 All right? 2011 01:43:48.960 --> 01:43:53.039 Byron Sexton interviewed. Uh, Ellen Night backstage, Any thoughts that 2012 01:43:55.800 --> 01:43:57.039 no was a lite to it? 2013 01:43:57.880 --> 01:43:58.000 Then? 2014 01:43:58.079 --> 01:44:01.239 Uh, Tongualow and Tomatonga if anything that's profits and uh, 2015 01:44:02.279 --> 01:44:04.640 the Bloodline won this one in about ten minutes. Any 2016 01:44:04.680 --> 01:44:05.079 thoughts on that? 2017 01:44:05.760 --> 01:44:08.039 Okay, match week finish and then you know a little 2018 01:44:08.079 --> 01:44:11.600 bit of action afterwards to make the Bloodline seem uh 2019 01:44:12.279 --> 01:44:13.000 seem menacing? 2020 01:44:13.640 --> 01:44:17.520 Yeah, all right? Then Uh they cut to a smiling 2021 01:44:17.600 --> 01:44:19.800 Cody backstage, which has been a topic of conversation in 2022 01:44:19.800 --> 01:44:21.800 a couple of places. What was that smile all about? 2023 01:44:21.960 --> 01:44:24.359 Looked like he was, you know, practicing for a tooth 2024 01:44:24.399 --> 01:44:27.039 based commercial or something. Kevin Owens walked walked up to 2025 01:44:27.119 --> 01:44:29.920 him and addressed that people think he's going to turn 2026 01:44:29.960 --> 01:44:32.239 on him, but he mounked and Cody with very reassuring 2027 01:44:32.279 --> 01:44:34.359 words for kog. All I can do is take you 2028 01:44:34.479 --> 01:44:37.319 at your word and prepare for what happens next. If 2029 01:44:37.359 --> 01:44:40.560 I'm Kevin Owens, I wouldn't consider that a endorsement of 2030 01:44:40.680 --> 01:44:42.039 his vow. 2031 01:44:42.319 --> 01:44:43.600 No, No, not at all. 2032 01:44:43.840 --> 01:44:46.119 No, not at all. So are they are they leaning 2033 01:44:46.199 --> 01:44:48.000 so hard into it that it makes you think it's 2034 01:44:48.079 --> 01:44:50.039 less likely or more likely, or it's a toss up, 2035 01:44:50.039 --> 01:44:51.319 who knows. It's just kind of a fun way to 2036 01:44:51.399 --> 01:44:54.319 take the journey to whether Ko turns on Cody or not. 2037 01:44:55.399 --> 01:44:57.159 I still think that they're going to do a turn, 2038 01:44:57.560 --> 01:45:00.960 and I think that the fact that there, I think 2039 01:45:01.000 --> 01:45:03.720 that they're leaning into it now because it isn't gonna 2040 01:45:03.880 --> 01:45:05.680 the turn isn't gonna happen in the way that they're 2041 01:45:05.760 --> 01:45:07.920 laying it out now. Like the idea here is like 2042 01:45:08.520 --> 01:45:11.760 Owens can't be trusted, like he's had to get you 2043 01:45:11.800 --> 01:45:13.520 know that that he might, you know, just turn on 2044 01:45:13.640 --> 01:45:15.479 Cody for you know, for no reason, because you can't 2045 01:45:15.479 --> 01:45:17.199 trust the guy. And I think the story is more 2046 01:45:17.319 --> 01:45:20.399 gonna be like he's sort of put upon and frustrated 2047 01:45:20.600 --> 01:45:23.159 and feels like he sort of boxed into a corner, 2048 01:45:23.319 --> 01:45:25.520 as opposed to like you just couldn't trust him from 2049 01:45:25.520 --> 01:45:28.960 the beginning. With that said, even though I still think 2050 01:45:29.000 --> 01:45:32.039 that's the direction, does them leaning this hard into it 2051 01:45:32.159 --> 01:45:34.159 make it seem more likely or less likely that I'm 2052 01:45:34.199 --> 01:45:37.439 right in my initial reaction that eventually Owens is going 2053 01:45:37.520 --> 01:45:40.479 to be a heel out of this less likely? I mean, 2054 01:45:40.520 --> 01:45:43.119 I think they're they are leaning into it hard enough 2055 01:45:43.279 --> 01:45:46.319 that it does make me wonder whether it's not going 2056 01:45:46.359 --> 01:45:48.800 to go in that direction. But it being pro wrestling, 2057 01:45:49.760 --> 01:45:53.880 I always think, like when you start teasing someone is 2058 01:45:53.920 --> 01:45:57.279 going to turn. They aren't necessarily going to turn, but 2059 01:45:57.479 --> 01:46:00.640 usually somebody turns. So like I'm thinking and like, okay, 2060 01:46:01.039 --> 01:46:03.479 maybe if like Owens isn't turning, this is building to 2061 01:46:03.600 --> 01:46:06.039 like orton turning at the end of this, like with 2062 01:46:06.640 --> 01:46:09.000 you know, like you know, Cody not trusting Ham or 2063 01:46:09.079 --> 01:46:11.960 you know, some sort of other tangle, because it's rare 2064 01:46:12.039 --> 01:46:14.600 in pro wrestling that, you know, someone like they tease 2065 01:46:14.680 --> 01:46:16.560 all this person's gonna turn and then at the end 2066 01:46:16.560 --> 01:46:18.079 they're like nope, I'm just a friend, and then they 2067 01:46:18.239 --> 01:46:20.079 just move on from things. That's that's an you know, 2068 01:46:20.199 --> 01:46:23.920 it's it's not that common of a scenario. 2069 01:46:28.319 --> 01:46:31.840 I'm Chris Maitland and I'm justin mcclellands. We host Wrestling 2070 01:46:31.880 --> 01:46:34.159 Coast to Coast, where we scour the wrestling scene to 2071 01:46:34.199 --> 01:46:36.159 find the best wrestling from the smallest places. 2072 01:46:36.479 --> 01:46:39.319 There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling 2073 01:46:39.399 --> 01:46:41.520 Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and 2074 01:46:41.600 --> 01:46:43.920 women who could be big time stars in a few years. 2075 01:46:44.319 --> 01:46:46.359 There are plenty of podcasts to voters, to w W 2076 01:46:46.560 --> 01:46:49.520 and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums 2077 01:46:49.640 --> 01:46:51.600 local wrestling hotspots around the country. 2078 01:46:51.960 --> 01:46:53.880 We can't wait to help you find the true hidden 2079 01:46:53.920 --> 01:46:56.079 gyms of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris 2080 01:46:56.159 --> 01:46:57.039 complain about. 2081 01:46:56.880 --> 01:46:59.920 Bad referees and justin bemoaning dog pal fins. 2082 01:47:00.079 --> 01:47:02.520 Don't forget my fetal search to see a blue Thunderbomb 2083 01:47:02.560 --> 01:47:03.079 win a match. 2084 01:47:03.520 --> 01:47:05.880 How can I like? The name says we cover the 2085 01:47:05.920 --> 01:47:08.239 hottest independent promotions from around the country. So this just 2086 01:47:08.319 --> 01:47:12.680 as Prestige Action, West Coast, Pro Revolver and Beyond Wrestling. 2087 01:47:13.000 --> 01:47:15.760 Actually, Chris, I think we sick pretty much too wrestling. 2088 01:47:15.600 --> 01:47:17.880 No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Wooster, Oh Right. 2089 01:47:18.159 --> 01:47:20.680 Our show's part of the PW Torch Daily cast lineup 2090 01:47:20.720 --> 01:47:23.720 and typically drops on Thursdays. Search PW Torch in your 2091 01:47:23.760 --> 01:47:26.680 podcast app, as subscribed to the PW Torch Daily Cast, 2092 01:47:27.079 --> 01:47:30.039 or stream our shows directly from PW touch dot com. 2093 01:47:30.399 --> 01:47:33.199 Find full details on the PW Torch Daily Cast lineup 2094 01:47:33.359 --> 01:47:35.319 at pwtrschdailycast dot com. 2095 01:47:44.279 --> 01:47:48.840 All right, then Byron Sex was backstage and said both 2096 01:47:48.880 --> 01:47:50.800 they and street property are being tended to, and then 2097 01:47:50.880 --> 01:47:52.760 be Fab walked out and said they're fine, But Candice 2098 01:47:52.800 --> 01:47:54.840 and Indie ran in and be Fab like, no, they're fine, 2099 01:47:54.880 --> 01:47:58.359 They're just upset. What was that for? Just to convey 2100 01:47:58.399 --> 01:48:00.920 the idea, Hey, they got beat up and we're just 2101 01:48:00.960 --> 01:48:03.680 going to put these two or these three women film 2102 01:48:03.720 --> 01:48:06.279 them reacting to it, or or did it lay the 2103 01:48:06.319 --> 01:48:08.439 groundwork for something else going on here? I thought it 2104 01:48:08.479 --> 01:48:09.159 was a weird segment. 2105 01:48:09.439 --> 01:48:11.159 Yeah, I thought it was a weird segment too. I mean, 2106 01:48:11.319 --> 01:48:14.399 I you know, going back to turns again, I mean, 2107 01:48:14.439 --> 01:48:17.399 it seems to me perhaps it's it's about you know, 2108 01:48:17.760 --> 01:48:20.119 either the street profits turning on Gargana and Champa, or 2109 01:48:20.239 --> 01:48:23.199 Gargana and Champa turning on the street profits. And given 2110 01:48:23.319 --> 01:48:28.119 Indie and Candae have already turned and haven't really been 2111 01:48:28.159 --> 01:48:34.680 associated with Gargano and Champa since turning them being reassociated 2112 01:48:34.720 --> 01:48:38.720 with Gargano and Champa and their heels, you know, makes 2113 01:48:38.920 --> 01:48:40.119 one wonder in that direction. 2114 01:48:42.319 --> 01:48:44.840 Then Pretty Deadly were decorating the crown for Nia Jackson. 2115 01:48:44.920 --> 01:48:47.800 Tiffany Swritten said it was disgusting what Michen did, and 2116 01:48:47.960 --> 01:48:50.000 jack said, you'll get back at her for touching that crown. 2117 01:48:50.520 --> 01:48:53.039 Any thoughts on on that segment there in the interaction. 2118 01:48:53.079 --> 01:48:54.760 Oh, you didn't even get to the main event here, 2119 01:48:54.960 --> 01:48:57.640 so like, I mean, this isn't going to do any harm, 2120 01:48:58.039 --> 01:48:59.800 But this was one of the dumber segments you ever 2121 01:48:59.840 --> 01:49:02.359 got to see, just in terms of like watching it 2122 01:49:02.439 --> 01:49:05.439 at being ridiculous and that Pretty Deadly Tiffany and Nya 2123 01:49:05.560 --> 01:49:08.439 are loudly talking, and then the premise is Chelsea and 2124 01:49:08.479 --> 01:49:11.560 Piper are having a private conversation not recognizing Naya is there, 2125 01:49:12.199 --> 01:49:14.600 and they're literally right next to each other. I mean, 2126 01:49:14.680 --> 01:49:18.640 they were not four feet away from the original position 2127 01:49:18.720 --> 01:49:21.520 where these people are standing here, like you could see 2128 01:49:21.560 --> 01:49:25.079 the original spot in the original spot in the camera 2129 01:49:25.239 --> 01:49:27.840 as they turned the camera thirty degrees to show Chelsea 2130 01:49:27.880 --> 01:49:29.640 and Piper standing right next to them, Like you can 2131 01:49:29.720 --> 01:49:32.800 see Chelsea and Piper in the screen You can literally 2132 01:49:32.880 --> 01:49:35.600 see the spot where Naya was at the beginning, still 2133 01:49:35.680 --> 01:49:37.880 in the same shot, and then Nia in the middle 2134 01:49:37.920 --> 01:49:39.720 of it, standing next to them as they're having their 2135 01:49:39.760 --> 01:49:44.920 conversation here. It was ridiculous. Again, doesn't matter, but I 2136 01:49:45.319 --> 01:49:48.119 thought it was comically ridiculous how this thing went. And 2137 01:49:49.880 --> 01:49:51.880 I mean, it's it's sort of hard to describe, but 2138 01:49:51.960 --> 01:49:53.720 I feel like if you if you watch that and 2139 01:49:53.800 --> 01:49:56.560 it didn't strike you, like, watch it again because you 2140 01:49:57.039 --> 01:49:59.039 just weren't paying very close attention and how ridiculous the 2141 01:49:59.039 --> 01:49:59.600 whole thing was. 2142 01:50:00.199 --> 01:50:01.840 It is the idea of Green and Piper knew they 2143 01:50:01.880 --> 01:50:02.560 were being overheard. 2144 01:50:03.359 --> 01:50:05.800 No, I don't think so. I think they just didn't 2145 01:50:05.800 --> 01:50:08.239 want to be bothered, like giving enough. I thought they'd 2146 01:50:08.319 --> 01:50:09.960 just be it would be quicker and easier to shoot 2147 01:50:09.960 --> 01:50:11.880 the way that they did, and they were like whatever. 2148 01:50:12.039 --> 01:50:15.039 People will pretend that they weren't that they weren't. You know, 2149 01:50:15.119 --> 01:50:17.439 they weren't as close as they were because it wasn't 2150 01:50:17.439 --> 01:50:20.239 an their interest to do that like they were. You know, 2151 01:50:20.319 --> 01:50:22.159 she seemed shocked and upset when it was there, because 2152 01:50:22.279 --> 01:50:23.960 now she's gonna get beat up by Nia Jacks, which 2153 01:50:23.960 --> 01:50:25.439 she presumably doesn't want to have happened. 2154 01:50:26.159 --> 01:50:27.720 And I bring that up only because it has been 2155 01:50:27.760 --> 01:50:31.560 brought up as as it's the you''re sort of caught between. Well, 2156 01:50:31.560 --> 01:50:33.359 that wouldn't make sense. But then the way it was 2157 01:50:33.399 --> 01:50:35.319 filmed doesn't make any sense either, So we have to 2158 01:50:35.479 --> 01:50:40.319 maybe consider both as options because it was so ridiculous. 2159 01:50:40.439 --> 01:50:42.640 If EE was just lazy shooting, I think they just 2160 01:50:42.680 --> 01:50:44.399 didn't want to, you know, they just wanted to shoot 2161 01:50:44.439 --> 01:50:47.039 it quick and dirty, and rather than sort of walking 2162 01:50:47.119 --> 01:50:49.439 over to another place and worrying abou shooting back and forth, 2163 01:50:49.720 --> 01:50:51.439 they wanted to film the two things back to back. 2164 01:50:51.520 --> 01:50:53.439 And they're like, eh, artistic. 2165 01:50:53.159 --> 01:50:54.880 Liberty, Yeah exactly. 2166 01:50:55.079 --> 01:50:59.479 Yeah, So, as we sometimes say less diplomatically, it's pro wrestling. 2167 01:51:00.319 --> 01:51:04.159 Yeah, all right, Cody wrote and Kevin Owans against graysomal 2168 01:51:04.279 --> 01:51:06.520 or notes and theory. Cody and Ko went in twelve minutes. 2169 01:51:09.039 --> 01:51:10.920 Yeah what do you think of that? And and then 2170 01:51:11.079 --> 01:51:12.439 just the celebration afterwards. 2171 01:51:13.399 --> 01:51:15.359 Yeah, not much to the match, and you know they're 2172 01:51:15.399 --> 01:51:17.560 not they're not teasing Owens turning all that hard even 2173 01:51:17.560 --> 01:51:20.319 if they're you know, still giving you a little bit 2174 01:51:20.359 --> 01:51:21.239 in that direction. 2175 01:51:22.479 --> 01:51:23.520 Anything else. So what's back down? 2176 01:51:24.560 --> 01:51:24.800 Nope? 2177 01:51:25.279 --> 01:51:28.880 All right, so we'll jump to raw from earlier this week, 2178 01:51:29.479 --> 01:51:33.439 and are you do you think they did about what 2179 01:51:33.479 --> 01:51:35.720 you would expect in terms of acknowledging the death of Sid. 2180 01:51:38.000 --> 01:51:40.760 Yeah, I mean what would be the argument against that? Oh? 2181 01:51:41.159 --> 01:51:44.760 Well, sometimes there's a video package, sometimes there is and 2182 01:51:44.840 --> 01:51:46.079 sometimes they're a mench at the top of the show. 2183 01:51:46.119 --> 01:51:48.960 Sometimes it's later in the show. So yeah, I don't know. Yeah, 2184 01:51:48.960 --> 01:51:51.279 I mean it seemed right to me, But I didn't 2185 01:51:51.279 --> 01:51:52.680 know if anything jumped out to you in terms of 2186 01:51:53.039 --> 01:51:55.039 because I just don't. Yeah, I just don't know how 2187 01:51:55.199 --> 01:52:01.560 they view him in their lens of history, in terms 2188 01:52:01.640 --> 01:52:04.239 of what category he falls in, other than you know, 2189 01:52:04.960 --> 01:52:05.880 for sure mentioning him. 2190 01:52:07.239 --> 01:52:09.640 Well, I mean, I think that mattered more under Vince, 2191 01:52:09.800 --> 01:52:12.279 who was more apt to focus on people that he 2192 01:52:12.760 --> 01:52:15.560 had good personal relations with. I think Connor is more 2193 01:52:15.680 --> 01:52:16.880 just like if you, you know, if you were a 2194 01:52:17.079 --> 01:52:19.359 you know, if you're an important person in the in 2195 01:52:19.479 --> 01:52:21.720 the business, we're not so worried about the politics, even 2196 01:52:21.760 --> 01:52:24.920 we'll feature you. And even if it was that wasn't 2197 01:52:24.960 --> 01:52:26.560 the case, Like I think, I think Vince would have 2198 01:52:26.920 --> 01:52:31.359 done that too. I my my sense years back was 2199 01:52:31.439 --> 01:52:35.199 that Sid probably wasn't on very good relations with them 2200 01:52:35.319 --> 01:52:38.000 based on you know, like the various you know issues 2201 01:52:38.039 --> 01:52:39.800 with him leaving the company over the years. But then 2202 01:52:39.840 --> 01:52:41.800 they brought them running back for that episode of Raw 2203 01:52:41.840 --> 01:52:43.840 and like, you know whatever, it was twenty twelve or 2204 01:52:43.880 --> 01:52:46.399 so twenty ten, and I was like, oh, okay, so 2205 01:52:46.479 --> 01:52:48.239 they must be on you know, at least decent terms, 2206 01:52:48.239 --> 01:52:51.560 because you know, they you know, there are other people 2207 01:52:51.600 --> 01:52:53.520 where you know, they just never bring them back, and 2208 01:52:53.720 --> 01:52:55.319 like those are the people I assume have you know, 2209 01:52:55.399 --> 01:52:56.079 some sort of heat. 2210 01:52:56.680 --> 01:53:01.479 M all right, so raupin with they segment the Judgment 2211 01:53:01.600 --> 01:53:04.199 Day and uh will turn out to be their opponents 2212 01:53:04.239 --> 01:53:07.640 in the LWO talk about the segment preceding the match, 2213 01:53:07.680 --> 01:53:09.159 and then the match that Judgment Day won that went 2214 01:53:09.239 --> 01:53:10.079 full fifteen minutes. 2215 01:53:11.039 --> 01:53:13.760 I thought that the promo segment was weak. You know, 2216 01:53:13.880 --> 01:53:15.800 you have the heels saying welcome to the show like 2217 01:53:15.840 --> 01:53:18.279 they're the weekly greaders, and then they throw to the 2218 01:53:18.359 --> 01:53:20.960 video package like they're the announcers, and then they just 2219 01:53:21.039 --> 01:53:24.119 drone on forever without really saying anything consequence. So I 2220 01:53:24.279 --> 01:53:26.800 wasn't a fan of that. I thought Judgment Danieloo is 2221 01:53:26.800 --> 01:53:29.840 pretty good match, and uh, you know Live helps Dominic 2222 01:53:29.960 --> 01:53:33.520 beat Ray again to advance their pairing. And then you 2223 01:53:33.560 --> 01:53:36.680 know we got Rihan and Dominic coming out to redominant 2224 01:53:36.760 --> 01:53:39.520 Rhian Damien coming out to UH to get some revenge, 2225 01:53:39.560 --> 01:53:42.439 which you know, I think was appropriate as well. So yeah, 2226 01:53:42.439 --> 01:53:43.960 I want us to get to the physicality is better? 2227 01:53:45.359 --> 01:53:45.600 All right? 2228 01:53:45.640 --> 01:53:45.800 Then? 2229 01:53:46.039 --> 01:53:48.920 Jacob Bridman interviewed Mis backstage. Any thoughts on that? 2230 01:53:50.439 --> 01:53:53.880 Yes, and I wait you you you left out in 2231 01:53:53.920 --> 01:53:56.159 your report the key line of this whole thing, yeah, 2232 01:53:56.199 --> 01:53:59.800 which is that the miss still a sensibly insensibly a babas. 2233 01:53:59.840 --> 01:54:01.199 Did you catch this line? Wade? 2234 01:54:02.239 --> 01:54:03.840 I don't. I don't know yet. 2235 01:54:03.840 --> 01:54:05.039 Oh if you don't, If you don't know you caught 2236 01:54:05.079 --> 01:54:07.840 this line, you did not catch this line, miss said? 2237 01:54:08.119 --> 01:54:11.960 He claimed that the Intercontinental title is the title that 2238 01:54:12.199 --> 01:54:13.560 he made prestigious. 2239 01:54:14.399 --> 01:54:17.560 He said, yeah, yeah, I'm miss set. 2240 01:54:18.840 --> 01:54:20.680 This man needs to write the forward for Steve CRN's 2241 01:54:20.720 --> 01:54:21.119 next book. 2242 01:54:22.479 --> 01:54:28.159 Yes, who made the icy title more famous than miss Prestigious? 2243 01:54:29.319 --> 01:54:31.800 I would say most most other holders. 2244 01:54:31.840 --> 01:54:35.239 Being a title that's a bit of a soap could 2245 01:54:35.279 --> 01:54:37.640 could be a long a long answer if you were 2246 01:54:37.680 --> 01:54:43.119 to be specific. So anything else beyond that, no, okay? 2247 01:54:44.119 --> 01:54:47.520 So yeah, then the man that made the Intercontinental title 2248 01:54:47.560 --> 01:54:49.319 prestigious the miss. 2249 01:54:50.680 --> 01:54:57.920 Yes, all right, Umm, I'm pottering that backstage Jagsabord's warming 2250 01:54:58.000 --> 01:54:59.920 up when cople Kingston walked in and they talked about 2251 01:55:00.039 --> 01:55:01.800 how mature they are to talk things out. What do 2252 01:55:01.880 --> 01:55:02.119 you think? 2253 01:55:03.920 --> 01:55:05.960 Nothing to it, you know, just highlighting their stoke hold 2254 01:55:06.039 --> 01:55:09.399 despite the continuing issues. 2255 01:55:10.880 --> 01:55:14.279 Yeah, all right then, uh, a pure fusion collective. Shane 2256 01:55:14.319 --> 01:55:16.960 of Baserons always Stark with Sonia took on Kyrie Sane 2257 01:55:16.960 --> 01:55:19.960 and Eel Sky did a little segment with PFC before that, 2258 01:55:20.199 --> 01:55:23.079 and then Kyrine Sky one in eight minutes, which you think. 2259 01:55:25.279 --> 01:55:28.920 It's fine? All right? Uh? 2260 01:55:29.319 --> 01:55:31.399 Is PFC warming up? Are you warming up to the 2261 01:55:31.600 --> 01:55:32.039 to the name? 2262 01:55:32.840 --> 01:55:35.000 I like the name from the beginning, I mean again, 2263 01:55:35.359 --> 01:55:37.560 just in sort of the silliness of it, you know, Yeah, 2264 01:55:37.800 --> 01:55:39.920 I don't. I don't want the abbreviation. I want pure 2265 01:55:40.039 --> 01:55:44.800 Fusion Collective. It's you know, it's it's something, the pure 2266 01:55:44.960 --> 01:55:49.479 fusion collective. What does it even mean for sure for 2267 01:55:49.600 --> 01:55:52.720 us all to consider it to ponder? Yes, I like 2268 01:55:52.800 --> 01:55:55.359 to think of myself as a pure fusion collective myself. 2269 01:55:59.319 --> 01:56:02.439 They could have done the s C S connection, the 2270 01:56:02.720 --> 01:56:06.159 s z S or the ZSS express that's got a 2271 01:56:06.199 --> 01:56:10.880 ring to it. Bs D for their last names BSD 2272 01:56:11.000 --> 01:56:16.920 express sounds kind of like the bfd BFG. Yeah all right, 2273 01:56:17.279 --> 01:56:22.079 uh bo Dallas vignette without the uncle Howdy cost him. 2274 01:56:22.760 --> 01:56:24.600 Rolled all books when you were a kid weighed or 2275 01:56:25.239 --> 01:56:26.800 those getting more popular a little bit later? 2276 01:56:27.119 --> 01:56:28.399 Which books rolled? 2277 01:56:28.439 --> 01:56:29.119 All? No? 2278 01:56:29.239 --> 01:56:29.600 I didn't? 2279 01:56:30.039 --> 01:56:30.359 Okay? 2280 01:56:30.800 --> 01:56:34.319 Yeah, yeah, So what do you think of the Bodallas vignette? 2281 01:56:37.279 --> 01:56:39.399 It was fine? You know, it's very much a pretty 2282 01:56:39.399 --> 01:56:40.159 white style parma. 2283 01:56:41.000 --> 01:56:45.000 Yeah. A bond forged in the tears of the innocent 2284 01:56:46.159 --> 01:56:49.359 arrogance is like a beast risen from the sea. Okay, 2285 01:56:49.560 --> 01:56:52.199 then it's just for people who didn't watch, and I 2286 01:56:52.279 --> 01:56:55.319 want to convey some of the tone of it. They 2287 01:56:55.399 --> 01:56:56.800 must cut off the head so the blood of the 2288 01:56:56.880 --> 01:56:58.720 damn washes away the sins of the wicked. 2289 01:56:59.479 --> 01:56:59.800 All right. 2290 01:56:59.840 --> 01:57:03.439 So our two open with Drew McIntyre talking about CM 2291 01:57:03.520 --> 01:57:10.079 punk and uh yeah, and then Punk attacking Drew from 2292 01:57:10.079 --> 01:57:11.399 behind at the end. What'd you think. 2293 01:57:13.079 --> 01:57:14.359 That was a good problem? I don't think it was 2294 01:57:14.880 --> 01:57:20.520 terribly not worthy in the overall, you know, the overall 2295 01:57:20.920 --> 01:57:21.520 arcude story. 2296 01:57:23.079 --> 01:57:24.960 We're about to go to a commercial break. Why listened 2297 01:57:24.960 --> 01:57:27.880 to commercial breaks when you can go vip and experience 2298 01:57:27.920 --> 01:57:30.399 our shows with the ads and plugs removed. Pw torch 2299 01:57:30.439 --> 01:57:34.159 dot com slash go VP. That's pw torch dot com 2300 01:57:34.239 --> 01:57:37.319 slash go VIP for full details, or go to Patreon, 2301 01:57:37.399 --> 01:57:41.119 Patreon dot com slash PW Torch vip ratestart as low 2302 01:57:41.159 --> 01:57:43.319 as four dollars in ninety nine cents to remove the 2303 01:57:43.319 --> 01:57:46.359 ads and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP membership starts at 2304 01:57:46.439 --> 01:57:48.720 nine dollars in ninety nine cents to reach yourself to 2305 01:57:48.800 --> 01:57:52.039 a streamlined, ad and plug free listening experience with a 2306 01:57:52.159 --> 01:58:00.800 VIP or Patreon membership. Is the deconstruction of of of 2307 01:58:01.000 --> 01:58:04.159 Punk's promo through just openly mocking isn't it great to 2308 01:58:04.199 --> 01:58:06.600 be alive and blank? And then I talk about my 2309 01:58:06.720 --> 01:58:08.920 and then he talks about himself and then sitting across 2310 01:58:09.000 --> 01:58:14.079 like it is it like if somebody just like deconstructs 2311 01:58:14.279 --> 01:58:16.520 a kind of a routine that you have as part 2312 01:58:16.560 --> 01:58:19.199 of your job or I don't know, or your personality 2313 01:58:20.239 --> 01:58:23.680 that sort of frames you as unoriginal and following a 2314 01:58:23.760 --> 01:58:26.560 certain pattern, which is what Drew is getting at there? 2315 01:58:27.479 --> 01:58:29.680 Is it is it too? 2316 01:58:30.079 --> 01:58:30.319 Does it? 2317 01:58:30.399 --> 01:58:32.279 Does it hurt Punk going forward? Or do you think 2318 01:58:32.279 --> 01:58:33.760 it was sort of self evidence and harmless. 2319 01:58:36.039 --> 01:58:38.159 I mean, he's been doing that sort of stuff all year, 2320 01:58:39.119 --> 01:58:42.960 and I think it has had a negative effect on 2321 01:58:44.760 --> 01:58:49.319 on uh on Punk, although I think, you know, the 2322 01:58:49.720 --> 01:58:53.239 Punk not wrestling that much and you know, ruining all 2323 01:58:53.239 --> 01:58:55.279 those matches probably has had more of it. But yeah, 2324 01:58:55.279 --> 01:58:57.720 I mean it's you know, it's a general consideration. I 2325 01:58:57.840 --> 01:58:59.319 just feel like, you know, that's sort of baked in 2326 01:58:59.399 --> 01:59:02.119 at this point, honestly. I mean, it's you know, it's 2327 01:59:02.159 --> 01:59:04.159 not it's not anything new. 2328 01:59:05.640 --> 01:59:09.560 Yeah, all right. Then, uh, Jason made his way to 2329 01:59:09.560 --> 01:59:11.560 the ring from the concourse and we had our first 2330 01:59:11.600 --> 01:59:14.279 of the triple threat matches to earn a chance to 2331 01:59:14.399 --> 01:59:16.279 enter a fatal four way to then earn a chance 2332 01:59:16.319 --> 01:59:17.159 at the Icy title. 2333 01:59:18.479 --> 01:59:21.000 I had a weird mix of triple threat matches. 2334 01:59:21.399 --> 01:59:24.039 Yeah, hope in the context of this that we just 2335 01:59:24.079 --> 01:59:25.880 get an open challenge where someone just gets to show 2336 01:59:25.920 --> 01:59:27.199 up on a video screen and get a shot and 2337 01:59:27.239 --> 01:59:34.159 bypass all of this. So Jay Wednesday eight minutes, what 2338 01:59:34.239 --> 01:59:34.600 do you think? 2339 01:59:35.439 --> 01:59:36.319 Yeah? I didn't think I was right. 2340 01:59:37.279 --> 01:59:44.720 Yeah, all right? Then Sound by Air with Gunther in Europe. 2341 01:59:44.760 --> 01:59:46.560 Any any thoughts on that promo? It wasn't a big 2342 01:59:46.560 --> 01:59:51.600 part of the show. No, Yeah, all right. Then Randy 2343 01:59:51.680 --> 01:59:56.479 Orton's promo covered a lot of ground here, which you think, Yeah, 2344 01:59:56.600 --> 01:59:56.800 it was. 2345 01:59:56.920 --> 01:59:58.720 It was weird, and I don't mean that in a 2346 01:59:58.760 --> 02:00:01.680 negative way. I kind of enjoy like pandering babyface Orton 2347 02:00:01.760 --> 02:00:05.079 because it's in such contrast how he usually presents himself. 2348 02:00:06.399 --> 02:00:08.800 And then he twisted himself into a knot to explain 2349 02:00:08.840 --> 02:00:10.640 why this random trinket that created a year ago is 2350 02:00:10.640 --> 02:00:13.840 important to him. Yeah, God, God bless you anymore. You're 2351 02:00:13.840 --> 02:00:17.159 really You're really trying here, You're really trying. It was different. 2352 02:00:17.359 --> 02:00:19.279 I I enjoyed it. I don't I don't know how 2353 02:00:19.319 --> 02:00:21.000 effective it was, but you know, I thought it was. 2354 02:00:21.199 --> 02:00:22.880 I thought it was fun. It's sort of a little 2355 02:00:23.479 --> 02:00:27.800 you know, novelty, uh novelty promo that you know is 2356 02:00:27.840 --> 02:00:29.359 the sort of thing you typically hear from him. 2357 02:00:30.520 --> 02:00:34.880 Yeah, yep, all right. Then Bronson read in Big excuse me, 2358 02:00:35.159 --> 02:00:36.960 Bronze Strowman and Big Bronson Reid. 2359 02:00:38.039 --> 02:00:39.159 You can call them both big. 2360 02:00:39.239 --> 02:00:45.159 It's fine, that's true. Big ended up in a parking 2361 02:00:45.239 --> 02:00:48.720 lot with a roof getting caved in somewhat, sparks flying, 2362 02:00:48.760 --> 02:00:50.079 as happens when people land on roofs. 2363 02:00:51.600 --> 02:00:56.439 I watched that multiple times, Wade, and my first thought was, like, 2364 02:00:56.880 --> 02:01:00.720 did they gimmick a spark in that thing? Like, what 2365 02:01:00.840 --> 02:01:02.720 a weird thing to do? Why would there be sparks 2366 02:01:02.760 --> 02:01:04.399 in the car? I watched it a few times. I 2367 02:01:04.479 --> 02:01:07.560 think that was legit. I think that was legitimately something 2368 02:01:07.720 --> 02:01:10.920 weird happening with the wiring there the car is like 2369 02:01:11.079 --> 02:01:12.600 I would think if they wanted to like do like 2370 02:01:12.640 --> 02:01:14.800 a big spark thing, there have been multiple sparks going off. 2371 02:01:15.039 --> 02:01:18.359 It was just one little wire like at that top area, 2372 02:01:18.720 --> 02:01:21.520 and it was so you know, it was so weird 2373 02:01:21.840 --> 02:01:25.399 and it was just so small that I thought, I 2374 02:01:25.760 --> 02:01:28.640 think that's probably legit. I mean, I certainly would not 2375 02:01:28.720 --> 02:01:30.840 be shocked if that was gimmicked, but like, what a 2376 02:01:30.880 --> 02:01:33.359 weird thing to gimmick like one spark off in. 2377 02:01:33.359 --> 02:01:35.119 The mid really, you know? 2378 02:01:35.279 --> 02:01:37.079 So yeah, it was it was odd either way. 2379 02:01:37.399 --> 02:01:39.159 Maybe it's like a w the Pyro was supposed to 2380 02:01:39.159 --> 02:01:40.840 be a lot more spectacular and it just kind of fizzled, 2381 02:01:40.880 --> 02:01:43.000 And now we're all talking about a little little fizzle, 2382 02:01:43.079 --> 02:01:43.560 little spark. 2383 02:01:46.520 --> 02:01:51.720 Oh the Eddie Kingston thing, Yeah, yeah, although yeah, explosion, 2384 02:01:51.720 --> 02:01:54.359 the poor eight one one thing happens a few years 2385 02:01:54.880 --> 02:01:57.479 another you know, it's like they're known for that. It's 2386 02:01:57.479 --> 02:01:59.560 a promotion. Yeah, I thought it was that. 2387 02:01:59.680 --> 02:02:01.640 That was the actually a historically significant moment in a 2388 02:02:01.920 --> 02:02:04.039 w in a certain way because it's I think it's 2389 02:02:04.199 --> 02:02:06.039 a turning point for some people, like the Tony Khan 2390 02:02:06.079 --> 02:02:07.039 because of how he handled that. 2391 02:02:09.159 --> 02:02:12.319 Yeah, the reaction afterwards, Yeah, that was great. I thought 2392 02:02:12.319 --> 02:02:14.359 it was a fun brawl. They didn't give you a finish, 2393 02:02:14.399 --> 02:02:15.720 but I think that's fine. They gave you a lot 2394 02:02:15.760 --> 02:02:18.800 of chaos. Bronson came out looking strong, and I assume 2395 02:02:18.800 --> 02:02:20.960 it's building to Bronson getting a pin in another time. 2396 02:02:21.159 --> 02:02:23.800 So yeah, I thought it was a fun brawl and 2397 02:02:25.119 --> 02:02:26.920 best thing on the show for you know my book. 2398 02:02:27.279 --> 02:02:31.479 Yeah, yeah, what's a what's a likely trajectory of Bronz 2399 02:02:31.479 --> 02:02:33.439 Strowman and Bronson read both coming out of this. 2400 02:02:34.560 --> 02:02:36.479 Stroman is just a you know, guy there to put 2401 02:02:36.520 --> 02:02:38.159 over other people, and you know you have to. You 2402 02:02:38.199 --> 02:02:40.640 want to present him strong enough that he can help 2403 02:02:40.720 --> 02:02:43.000 in putting over other people, which means, you know, showcasing 2404 02:02:43.039 --> 02:02:45.239 how big and impressive he looks, and the fact he 2405 02:02:45.319 --> 02:02:47.800 does have some credibility built in from being pushed at 2406 02:02:47.840 --> 02:02:49.880 points in the past. But yeah, I mean, he's there 2407 02:02:49.960 --> 02:02:52.199 to help other people at this point. And as far 2408 02:02:52.279 --> 02:02:54.319 as Bronson read, I mean that's a big question. I mean, 2409 02:02:54.560 --> 02:02:58.640 you know, it sure didn't feel like Hunter had a 2410 02:02:58.760 --> 02:03:03.640 lot of belief in uh In Bronson Reid. And you 2411 02:03:03.720 --> 02:03:05.880 know it's even even when they started, you know that 2412 02:03:06.279 --> 02:03:08.479 they started to set up this you know, little program 2413 02:03:08.600 --> 02:03:11.520 with seth Rawlins. I you know, I initially was not 2414 02:03:11.680 --> 02:03:13.199 sold either that you know, that they were going to 2415 02:03:13.239 --> 02:03:17.199 do something significant with him. But you know, they they 2416 02:03:17.279 --> 02:03:24.640 sure seem more invested in him now. So hopefully hopefully 2417 02:03:24.720 --> 02:03:26.880 they they are. I mean, because I I think highly 2418 02:03:26.960 --> 02:03:28.960 of the guy, and uh, you know, I think you're 2419 02:03:29.039 --> 02:03:32.279 seeing you know, I think you're seeing him do well 2420 02:03:32.319 --> 02:03:35.479 in the role. So yeah, hopefully they're hopefully they're thinking 2421 02:03:35.560 --> 02:03:38.520 of him that as somebody that can be a you know, 2422 02:03:38.720 --> 02:03:40.720 player in the in the upper mix for a while. 2423 02:03:42.279 --> 02:03:45.039 All right, then, Uh, Pete Dunn Exavor Woods in the 2424 02:03:45.079 --> 02:03:48.680 miss and the other uh and other weird match. Yeah, 2425 02:03:49.119 --> 02:03:51.479 Dun gets to win here in eleven minutes with a 2426 02:03:51.479 --> 02:03:53.039 bitter end what pinning miss? 2427 02:03:53.159 --> 02:03:56.880 What do you think? It's fine? I don't like Pete 2428 02:03:56.960 --> 02:04:00.560 Dunn's odds of earning this title shot though, hmm, sorry Pete. 2429 02:04:01.840 --> 02:04:05.279 Then Jack a brown breaker back stage who commented on 2430 02:04:05.479 --> 02:04:08.039 on the the fight, the fight's going on to try 2431 02:04:08.079 --> 02:04:10.279 to earn a shot. What'd you think? 2432 02:04:11.920 --> 02:04:14.039 I thought it was pretty good. I enjoyed the little 2433 02:04:14.119 --> 02:04:16.159 callback to the Steiners and the Headshrinkuerds and small and 2434 02:04:16.239 --> 02:04:19.640 Swat Team, So, I mean, I wasn't even thinking about 2435 02:04:19.680 --> 02:04:23.439 that Sarah context in uh in this little few but 2436 02:04:23.600 --> 02:04:26.720 that's little, you know, little historical contexts for people that 2437 02:04:26.840 --> 02:04:29.119 remember those matches, and you know, they had some fun matches. 2438 02:04:31.119 --> 02:04:33.079 Then Chack Gable and Uncle Howdie and he's right, I 2439 02:04:33.079 --> 02:04:33.560 don't remember. 2440 02:04:33.560 --> 02:04:36.520 I don't remember the you know, the Fai family beating, 2441 02:04:36.600 --> 02:04:38.119 the beating the Steiners. 2442 02:04:38.840 --> 02:04:44.199 Yeah, I wouldn't know either way, but for sure, but yeah, yeah, 2443 02:04:44.279 --> 02:04:47.000 so Chack Gable Uncle Howdy in the main event. How 2444 02:04:47.039 --> 02:04:51.880 did Uncle Howdie's debut singles match on Raw as a 2445 02:04:52.479 --> 02:04:53.199 wrestler go? 2446 02:04:53.439 --> 02:04:56.279 For you? By the way, Before that, they aired a 2447 02:04:56.359 --> 02:04:58.399 little Damian Priest for of Repley video that I thought 2448 02:04:58.399 --> 02:04:59.960 it was excellent. I thought they had the perfect time 2449 02:05:00.039 --> 02:05:01.720 in terms of the way they're sort of carrying themselves 2450 02:05:01.760 --> 02:05:04.800 and interacting together and sort of having an edge to it, 2451 02:05:04.920 --> 02:05:08.119 but being baby faces, I thought the match was okay. 2452 02:05:09.319 --> 02:05:11.199 I do think there's a bit of an Emperor's new 2453 02:05:11.239 --> 02:05:13.840 clothes issue with the group once you step away the gimmicks, 2454 02:05:15.159 --> 02:05:17.239 but you know, so it goes. 2455 02:05:17.920 --> 02:05:23.920 Yeah anything else from Rock Nope? All right, so let's 2456 02:05:24.560 --> 02:05:27.199 run through the Bashi in Berlin lineup. There'll be a 2457 02:05:27.239 --> 02:05:32.000 little bit more hype obviously tomorrow night on SmackDown, Goon 2458 02:05:32.039 --> 02:05:35.479 through Randy Orton. Is zeem pretty obvious that goes on last? 2459 02:05:35.760 --> 02:05:38.439 Or is it obvious the undisputed title that Cody Hoads 2460 02:05:38.479 --> 02:05:40.800 goes on last, because that's the most prestigious title and 2461 02:05:40.960 --> 02:05:43.159 Cody is still the biggest star on the show. 2462 02:05:44.159 --> 02:05:46.720 I would be I would be surprised if if the 2463 02:05:46.800 --> 02:05:48.760 Cody match goes on last. I think they're gonna go 2464 02:05:48.880 --> 02:05:50.479 last with Gun and RTN. 2465 02:05:51.039 --> 02:05:53.840 Yeah, so, Guthornton, what do you think? What do you 2466 02:05:53.840 --> 02:05:54.640 think of this is what happens? 2467 02:05:56.159 --> 02:06:00.439 I'm I'm curious, you know how good it is? I mean, 2468 02:06:00.479 --> 02:06:03.479 the crowd should be really hot. I never expect a 2469 02:06:03.520 --> 02:06:06.239 classic out of Randy Orton, but I think this has 2470 02:06:06.279 --> 02:06:09.319 a better chance of being that than any other match. 2471 02:06:09.479 --> 02:06:13.399 Orton's had in over a decade because he's in there 2472 02:06:13.399 --> 02:06:15.800 with Gunter in a great setting and a high profile spot. 2473 02:06:16.319 --> 02:06:19.680 So you know, here's this chance, you know, to prove that, 2474 02:06:19.960 --> 02:06:23.960 you know, you know, prove what type of great wrestler 2475 02:06:23.960 --> 02:06:26.039 he is because he's you know, often labeled a great wrestler, 2476 02:06:26.119 --> 02:06:27.800 but he you know, and I mean he you know, 2477 02:06:27.880 --> 02:06:31.239 he obviously has his has his strengths as a performer, 2478 02:06:31.920 --> 02:06:33.760 but he does he hasn't has produced a lot of 2479 02:06:33.760 --> 02:06:36.199 classic matches over the years, and this is you know, 2480 02:06:36.399 --> 02:06:40.800 a uh, you know, a definite opportunity and as far 2481 02:06:40.800 --> 02:06:42.439 as the finish yet, Gunter will definitely one. 2482 02:06:43.720 --> 02:06:45.439 And as we talked about the production meeting, I take 2483 02:06:45.439 --> 02:06:47.479 the other side, and I think that's going to be 2484 02:06:47.560 --> 02:06:49.960 a letdown. I think peop are going to be disappointed. 2485 02:06:49.960 --> 02:06:51.960 I think people's hopes are too high. The build has 2486 02:06:52.000 --> 02:06:56.079 actually been too effective and built up expectations and it 2487 02:06:56.199 --> 02:07:00.079 will be a typical three star Randy Orton special and 2488 02:07:00.560 --> 02:07:03.199 going through have to prove himself against other opponents. 2489 02:07:03.680 --> 02:07:06.199 Well you say that, I'm not taking a strong stand 2490 02:07:06.239 --> 02:07:08.600 on Orton having a you know, better than three star match. 2491 02:07:08.760 --> 02:07:10.720 I mean, like, you know, like there's you know there's 2492 02:07:10.720 --> 02:07:13.720 a Charlie Brown football element to to doing that, like 2493 02:07:13.920 --> 02:07:16.720 you know, like, uh, I'll take what comes, but yeah, 2494 02:07:16.760 --> 02:07:19.000 I'm I'm not you know, like, don't don't watch this 2495 02:07:19.119 --> 02:07:21.600 show because you know, Todd guaranteed you're getting a uh, 2496 02:07:22.119 --> 02:07:24.439 you know, a four and a half star on the 2497 02:07:24.479 --> 02:07:25.720 old scale match. 2498 02:07:26.760 --> 02:07:28.960 You know that goes with your UOC event recommendations. 2499 02:07:31.640 --> 02:07:33.560 Yeah, I mean, UFC's are tough to product. It's you 2500 02:07:33.640 --> 02:07:35.720 know that most of them are very good, but you know, 2501 02:07:36.039 --> 02:07:37.399 you know, some of the ones you don't expect to 2502 02:07:37.439 --> 02:07:39.560 be very good or are are good, and some of 2503 02:07:39.560 --> 02:07:41.800 the ones you uh, you expect to be very good 2504 02:07:41.880 --> 02:07:42.399 artist good. 2505 02:07:43.039 --> 02:07:47.439 Yeah, all right, So Cody and Kevin Kale other Men's 2506 02:07:47.640 --> 02:07:48.880 World Tidle Match, what do you think? What do you 2507 02:07:48.920 --> 02:07:49.520 think happens here? 2508 02:07:50.800 --> 02:07:52.840 Cody will win, and you know the question is whether 2509 02:07:53.039 --> 02:07:55.199 they're gonna, you know, work an angle into the finish 2510 02:07:55.319 --> 02:07:56.920 or whether they have Cody win and then do an 2511 02:07:56.920 --> 02:08:00.439 angle afterwards, either after the match or in the coming weeks. 2512 02:08:01.079 --> 02:08:02.479 I do not expect this to be a one off 2513 02:08:02.520 --> 02:08:05.159 with Cody winning and Owen's continuing his a face, even 2514 02:08:05.239 --> 02:08:07.840 if Owens isn't turning out of this thing. I still 2515 02:08:07.880 --> 02:08:10.119 think they're going to continue this thing after the show. 2516 02:08:11.960 --> 02:08:16.680 Then Seeampunk your McIntire strap match. What's what's gonna happen here? 2517 02:08:18.199 --> 02:08:20.640 I mean, since you know drew one the last one, 2518 02:08:20.680 --> 02:08:22.560 I think Punk will get us one back here and 2519 02:08:22.640 --> 02:08:24.920 he'll get the bracelet, so we can move on from 2520 02:08:25.000 --> 02:08:28.399 that this particular aspect. But I don't expect the program 2521 02:08:28.520 --> 02:08:32.760 overall to be over well. I hope that they can 2522 02:08:32.840 --> 02:08:34.520 have a better match than they did at Summer Sam. 2523 02:08:34.680 --> 02:08:36.680 And granted I was lower on that than than some people, 2524 02:08:36.760 --> 02:08:39.439 but you know, the consensus was not like awesome either. 2525 02:08:40.079 --> 02:08:43.359 Right. Does the bracelet end up in a glass case 2526 02:08:43.399 --> 02:08:45.479 that's some hall of fame or dough to b experience 2527 02:08:46.760 --> 02:08:51.439 event in Saudi Arabia or elsewhere someday, or I. 2528 02:08:51.479 --> 02:08:53.720 Mean, it's I think it's way too precious to let 2529 02:08:53.840 --> 02:08:56.560 seem Punk let it out of his hands in an exhibit. 2530 02:08:57.520 --> 02:08:59.640 It would be actually somewhat hypocritical of Punk to it 2531 02:09:00.439 --> 02:09:02.640 it to be on display because it is so private. 2532 02:09:03.239 --> 02:09:05.119 No, he's gonna have that under his pillow. 2533 02:09:06.199 --> 02:09:08.279 Except for you know, a random week when he says 2534 02:09:08.319 --> 02:09:12.119 the bracelet doesn't matter. And I don't know if that 2535 02:09:12.239 --> 02:09:13.680 was reverse psychology. 2536 02:09:13.319 --> 02:09:17.119 Or I think what happened there looking back was they 2537 02:09:17.199 --> 02:09:19.039 hadn't sort of decided how this thing was going to 2538 02:09:19.079 --> 02:09:21.000 play out, and they're like, well, let's just you know, 2539 02:09:21.119 --> 02:09:23.239 like because they're like, this thing isn't working. And then 2540 02:09:23.319 --> 02:09:25.199 someone's like, hey, you know what, let's just finish it 2541 02:09:25.279 --> 02:09:27.840 off at the at the next show and we'll have 2542 02:09:28.039 --> 02:09:30.000 you know, Punk get the bracelet back and then we'll 2543 02:09:30.039 --> 02:09:31.600 move on from there. So I think I think that 2544 02:09:31.800 --> 02:09:32.520 was the decision. 2545 02:09:33.039 --> 02:09:35.039 And then Punk said, do I want to speak up 2546 02:09:35.039 --> 02:09:36.800 and say? This makes me look like an idiot? Because 2547 02:09:36.800 --> 02:09:38.119 one week I'm saying how portant it is, the next 2548 02:09:38.119 --> 02:09:39.359 week I'm saying it doesn't matter to me, and then 2549 02:09:39.359 --> 02:09:41.600 I'm back to caring about it. And I don't think 2550 02:09:41.680 --> 02:09:43.760 this works for me, but I don't want to be 2551 02:09:43.800 --> 02:09:45.800 that person who complains, So I'm just going to go 2552 02:09:45.880 --> 02:09:47.159 with it because the paycheck's clear. 2553 02:09:48.279 --> 02:09:51.159 He's he's done plenty of things this year that undercut 2554 02:09:51.239 --> 02:09:54.039 him more than caring about a bracelet one weekend, then 2555 02:09:54.079 --> 02:09:56.920 not carying about the next week, yeah, and then carry 2556 02:09:56.920 --> 02:09:57.880 about the week. 2557 02:10:05.479 --> 02:10:08.479 Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn 2558 02:10:08.600 --> 02:10:12.439 some wrestling history don't miss the Nineties Past cast every 2559 02:10:12.520 --> 02:10:15.800 Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alex and 2560 02:10:15.880 --> 02:10:19.119 Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by 2561 02:10:19.279 --> 02:10:21.960 taking you through the Torch issue from that very week. 2562 02:10:22.560 --> 02:10:25.640 Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the 2563 02:10:25.720 --> 02:10:28.880 happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as 2564 02:10:28.960 --> 02:10:32.359 The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the Nineties 2565 02:10:32.439 --> 02:10:35.760 Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. 2566 02:10:47.479 --> 02:10:51.119 All right, then, Dami Prieston, Rea Ripley against Dominic Masterio 2567 02:10:51.159 --> 02:10:53.399 and Live Morgan a mixed bag match. What do you 2568 02:10:53.439 --> 02:10:55.880 think of the build and how anticipated this match is 2569 02:10:56.000 --> 02:10:59.479 at this point given all the lead up to it. 2570 02:11:00.840 --> 02:11:03.560 I think the bill has been good. I think there's 2571 02:11:03.720 --> 02:11:06.279 a I think there's anticipation for the match. I think 2572 02:11:06.279 --> 02:11:09.760 people are are looking forward to it and we'll enjoy it. 2573 02:11:11.920 --> 02:11:14.199 I'm of two minds in the finish. On on the 2574 02:11:14.279 --> 02:11:18.359 one hand, Rhea and Priest are so much higher priorities 2575 02:11:18.359 --> 02:11:21.279 than Domin Live and domond Live just got over on 2576 02:11:21.359 --> 02:11:23.079 them at Summer Slam, So part of me says, let 2577 02:11:23.479 --> 02:11:25.239 Rihion and Priests get the win and then you can 2578 02:11:25.279 --> 02:11:27.159 get the heat back on them on the heels. After that, 2579 02:11:27.920 --> 02:11:30.199 other part of me says that, like, because Rihei and 2580 02:11:30.359 --> 02:11:33.039 Priest are so much stronger, you know, give Judgment Day 2581 02:11:33.079 --> 02:11:34.960 a win, to give them a little credibility at the 2582 02:11:35.000 --> 02:11:38.000 start of the angle. The thing that tests me towards 2583 02:11:38.079 --> 02:11:40.399 having Priest and Real win is that Baler isn't in 2584 02:11:40.439 --> 02:11:42.319 the match, and they presented him as the strongest linking 2585 02:11:42.399 --> 02:11:44.520 Judgment Day. So you can have them, you know, you 2586 02:11:44.600 --> 02:11:48.399 can have Priest pin Dominic and then still, you know, 2587 02:11:49.399 --> 02:11:51.800 move things towards a you know, a ballort priest match. 2588 02:11:53.960 --> 02:11:59.680 All right, and what's the last match? Oh, the women's 2589 02:11:59.720 --> 02:12:02.640 take title match Fire and Don against Beller and Jade. 2590 02:12:03.520 --> 02:12:06.119 I'd be very surprised if Bianca and Jay didn't win 2591 02:12:06.199 --> 02:12:08.560 back the titles. But then again, I was very surprised 2592 02:12:08.560 --> 02:12:11.239 they lost him in the first place. But I don't 2593 02:12:11.279 --> 02:12:13.640 expect the breakup to come until wrestling any of time, 2594 02:12:13.840 --> 02:12:16.640 So it makes more sense in the interim to have 2595 02:12:16.760 --> 02:12:19.359 them holding the titles and not holding the titles. 2596 02:12:20.079 --> 02:12:27.239 Yeah, all right, anything else before we turn away from 2597 02:12:27.279 --> 02:12:33.520 do to b t UC Nope, all right, so USC, Todd, 2598 02:12:33.600 --> 02:12:34.800 what's on? What's on the docket? 2599 02:12:34.880 --> 02:12:37.920 For the Fix this week. So we're gonna talk about 2600 02:12:37.960 --> 02:12:40.560 last week's show, which was a good show, and uh, 2601 02:12:40.960 --> 02:12:43.000 this is one that that probably should run the road 2602 02:12:43.079 --> 02:12:45.359 rather than at the Apex because unlike the vast majority 2603 02:12:45.399 --> 02:12:47.319 of these Apex shows, this had, you know, a bunch 2604 02:12:47.359 --> 02:12:50.319 of high quality fighters and steakes. Main event was Kyo 2605 02:12:50.359 --> 02:12:57.239 Baralio and Jared Cannonier. That that named Kyle Borlio. It 2606 02:12:57.319 --> 02:12:59.119 feels like it's just ready to go off the rails 2607 02:12:59.159 --> 02:13:01.359 at any point, you know, Like I feel like, even 2608 02:13:01.399 --> 02:13:03.159 if you get used to saying it, it's you know, 2609 02:13:03.239 --> 02:13:04.920 you can never feel that comfortable. 2610 02:13:04.520 --> 02:13:06.680 With it, the whole name or the last name, Like 2611 02:13:06.720 --> 02:13:08.199 what what really all of it? 2612 02:13:08.439 --> 02:13:10.960 It's just it's just a roller coaster of a name. 2613 02:13:11.640 --> 02:13:15.920 So Bahalio is the upstart, younger guy undefeating the UFC. 2614 02:13:16.479 --> 02:13:19.000 Cannoneer is the veteran who's been a top contender for years, 2615 02:13:19.479 --> 02:13:21.840 and as is often the case in M m A, 2616 02:13:22.039 --> 02:13:26.640 it was a changing in the guard competitive fight earlier early, 2617 02:13:26.800 --> 02:13:31.239 but Bralio Bohalio took over as it went on. Rock 2618 02:13:31.319 --> 02:13:37.199 Canyear in the third, Rock Canyear in the fifth, and uh, 2619 02:13:37.720 --> 02:13:41.399 Cannoneer wasn't reacting all that well to getting hit, which 2620 02:13:41.520 --> 02:13:45.640 is not a great sign as you uh get into 2621 02:13:45.680 --> 02:13:49.119 your forties, and Bajolio called for a fight afterwards with 2622 02:13:49.279 --> 02:13:53.479 the Draycus Duplessy, which he won't get, but he might 2623 02:13:53.560 --> 02:13:56.399 be maybe two or three fights away if he can 2624 02:13:56.479 --> 02:14:00.880 keep winning, so uh, you know, he's uh, he's not 2625 02:14:01.119 --> 02:14:04.279 that far off at this point and this this fight 2626 02:14:04.680 --> 02:14:08.720 will will help him because he he looked good against Ah, 2627 02:14:09.279 --> 02:14:12.159 a good opponent. They also had the Ultimate Fighter Finales 2628 02:14:13.479 --> 02:14:16.560 Our finals. I mentioned last week about how much Robert 2629 02:14:16.600 --> 02:14:19.520 Valentine had stood out on the show, and unfortunately he 2630 02:14:19.680 --> 02:14:24.239 lost to a pretty one dimensional Westler. Ryan Loder took 2631 02:14:24.319 --> 02:14:27.880 him down and Valentine actually went to town with submissions 2632 02:14:28.000 --> 02:14:30.880 and was controlling most of the fight on the ground, 2633 02:14:32.159 --> 02:14:35.279 but eventually Vader was able to trap him in a 2634 02:14:35.319 --> 02:14:38.560 crucifix and it wasn't like he was devastating Valentine with 2635 02:14:39.760 --> 02:14:42.319 with with shots by any means, but he was just 2636 02:14:42.479 --> 02:14:45.560 trapped and the referee stopped that because he wasn't able 2637 02:14:45.560 --> 02:14:47.760 to defend himself. And that I feel like there was 2638 02:14:47.760 --> 02:14:49.600 a finish more a number of years back, and it's 2639 02:14:50.000 --> 02:14:52.399 it's not satisfying one because like you're not. You're not 2640 02:14:52.640 --> 02:14:55.840 really like it's it's it's almost like a loophole finish 2641 02:14:56.000 --> 02:14:58.680 because like you're not. The crucifix is not a position 2642 02:14:58.760 --> 02:15:01.520 where you usually can do that much damage from because 2643 02:15:02.000 --> 02:15:04.279 you have to use you have to control the guy's 2644 02:15:04.520 --> 02:15:08.319 arms in a way that you can only throw elbows 2645 02:15:08.359 --> 02:15:11.800 from relatively short distance. And you can do some damage 2646 02:15:11.840 --> 02:15:15.279 with those short elbows from from from from short distance, 2647 02:15:15.880 --> 02:15:18.520 but it's, you know, usually it just ends up being 2648 02:15:18.600 --> 02:15:22.720 relatively light, you know, light punches and elbows. But if 2649 02:15:22.760 --> 02:15:24.800 you just keep you know, punching an elbow and the 2650 02:15:24.840 --> 02:15:27.119 guy and the guy isn't you know, isn't able to 2651 02:15:27.199 --> 02:15:29.600 do anything to defend himself, then you know, referees are 2652 02:15:29.640 --> 02:15:33.640 gonna stop it, so so it goes. Other final was 2653 02:15:33.960 --> 02:15:38.119 Myron Santos knocking out Confley with a left hooke in exchange. 2654 02:15:38.800 --> 02:15:41.920 Beautiful finish, but I don't see either of these finishers 2655 02:15:42.199 --> 02:15:46.960 winners going far as Dana White Contender Series has become 2656 02:15:47.279 --> 02:15:50.960 the the dominant entry point for UFC fighters now, and 2657 02:15:52.279 --> 02:15:55.279 Ultimate Fighter is basically an afterthought kind of a relic 2658 02:15:57.000 --> 02:15:59.159 from you know, from an earlier days with you know, 2659 02:15:59.239 --> 02:16:02.119 Dana White Can Series being where they filter you know, 2660 02:16:02.439 --> 02:16:04.800 pretty much all the top contenders through and put the 2661 02:16:04.920 --> 02:16:07.960 top prospects through rather and you know, now you know, 2662 02:16:08.199 --> 02:16:10.840 so many of the uh you know, the top fighters 2663 02:16:10.880 --> 02:16:12.960 in the UFC roster came through you know, came through 2664 02:16:13.000 --> 02:16:17.520 the UH through the Contender series. By the way, I 2665 02:16:18.840 --> 02:16:20.760 there's a funny moment of the Contender Series this week 2666 02:16:20.880 --> 02:16:25.000 where these two guys had a great fight and they 2667 02:16:25.079 --> 02:16:27.800 make this big production the Dana White is going to 2668 02:16:27.880 --> 02:16:31.560 give the loser not only his show bonus, not only 2669 02:16:31.760 --> 02:16:34.319 his win bonus, but another bonus on top of that, 2670 02:16:34.360 --> 02:16:36.719 and the announcers are like freaking out, like oh my god, 2671 02:16:36.920 --> 02:16:39.760 like what a you know, they've never done anything like this. 2672 02:16:39.959 --> 02:16:43.479 He's getting all these bonuses. And then later you overhear 2673 02:16:44.000 --> 02:16:46.200 Data White going yeah, you're getting an extra fifteen K, 2674 02:16:46.719 --> 02:16:49.959 and it's like, I mean, look, I'd like to have, 2675 02:16:50.120 --> 02:16:51.879 you know, I'd like fifteen K for Data if he 2676 02:16:51.920 --> 02:16:53.840 wants to give me for fifteen K. But they've made 2677 02:16:53.959 --> 02:16:57.799 such this production and it's like, you know, fifteen K 2678 02:16:58.440 --> 02:17:00.959 of this promotion that's you know, like a million dollar company, 2679 02:17:01.120 --> 02:17:05.000 and uh, you know is uh he is making hundreds 2680 02:17:05.000 --> 02:17:08.920 of millions of dollars a year anyway. Uh. In addition 2681 02:17:09.079 --> 02:17:11.399 to the to the to the main event and the 2682 02:17:11.760 --> 02:17:15.120 Ulti Fighter finale's uh, there is also another up and 2683 02:17:15.200 --> 02:17:18.319 comer versus veteran fight with Neil Magni and Michael Morales, 2684 02:17:18.760 --> 02:17:22.399 and up and Comer won there too. Magni was going 2685 02:17:22.440 --> 02:17:25.520 for takedown on Morales and Morales was defending for a while, 2686 02:17:25.879 --> 02:17:27.639 and then when he had a moment, he threw a 2687 02:17:28.120 --> 02:17:33.319 spinning back elbow and it you know, it knocked uh, 2688 02:17:33.760 --> 02:17:37.000 Magni down and back and down, and he got him 2689 02:17:37.000 --> 02:17:39.360 down to the ground, got his back, finding him out 2690 02:17:39.360 --> 02:17:42.159 and pounded him out. So Morales now seventeen to oh 2691 02:17:42.479 --> 02:17:45.520 and uh, he's only twenty five, so he could have 2692 02:17:45.600 --> 02:17:50.440 a pretty uh, pretty bright future there given the way 2693 02:17:50.479 --> 02:17:54.879 his his career started. Edmund Shabbassian and Jerald Miershard this 2694 02:17:54.959 --> 02:17:57.479 is a hell will come back. So Miershart has always 2695 02:17:57.520 --> 02:18:00.239 been a one dimensional submission guy and Shabbasian was just 2696 02:18:00.319 --> 02:18:02.799 lighting him upstanding for pretty much the entire fight. But 2697 02:18:03.159 --> 02:18:07.360 Meershart survived. He hung in there to his credit and 2698 02:18:07.719 --> 02:18:11.239 uh and in the second late in the second he 2699 02:18:11.319 --> 02:18:14.600 managed to take down and grabbed an arm triangle and 2700 02:18:14.760 --> 02:18:17.440 got the submission, so it was, uh, it was quite 2701 02:18:17.479 --> 02:18:21.760 the turnaround. And with that submission, Meershart is now the 2702 02:18:22.079 --> 02:18:27.959 middleweight fighter in UFC history with the most finishes, which boy, 2703 02:18:28.280 --> 02:18:30.040 I don't know anyone would have been able to guess 2704 02:18:30.040 --> 02:18:32.520 if they hadn't heard it specifically on this telecast, because 2705 02:18:32.959 --> 02:18:39.399 that is one, you know, counterintuitive record. But good for uh, 2706 02:18:40.479 --> 02:18:45.520 good for Meershart and uh for Schabasian. I mean it's 2707 02:18:46.239 --> 02:18:47.559 you know, it's not the first time he managed to 2708 02:18:47.559 --> 02:18:51.520 smash smash defeat from the jaws of victory and impressive 2709 02:18:51.639 --> 02:18:56.479 opener as Wayang Kong knocked out Victoria Leonardo with a 2710 02:18:56.520 --> 02:18:59.239 two punch combination in a hurry, and Kong has a 2711 02:18:59.440 --> 02:19:03.840 kickbox background. She wants to beat Valentina Chevchenko and kickboxing. 2712 02:19:03.959 --> 02:19:06.799 She's on being an MMA and she's confident. After the 2713 02:19:06.840 --> 02:19:09.879 beautiful k I winning her UFC debut, she said she 2714 02:19:10.000 --> 02:19:11.639 wasn't happy because she should have been on the main 2715 02:19:11.680 --> 02:19:14.200 card rather than the opener, which is a pretty badass 2716 02:19:14.239 --> 02:19:17.600 thing to say. So I enjoyed that and no no 2717 02:19:17.719 --> 02:19:21.760 show this week so people can enjoy the return of 2718 02:19:22.360 --> 02:19:26.200 college football on Siduray, although it's starting up starting up 2719 02:19:26.239 --> 02:19:29.239 now only a few minutes from from North Carolina, Carolina 2720 02:19:29.280 --> 02:19:35.479 and Minnesota. Wade excited. I no, no, yeah, what what 2721 02:19:35.600 --> 02:19:36.319 a disappointment? 2722 02:19:36.680 --> 02:19:39.719 When when does? When's the first NFL game next weekend? 2723 02:19:40.360 --> 02:19:41.879 Well, next Thursday on. 2724 02:19:41.920 --> 02:19:44.799 A Thursday night. Okay, yeah, so it's another Thursday night start. Yeah. 2725 02:19:45.680 --> 02:19:47.159 Yeah, as we're recording next week. 2726 02:19:48.639 --> 02:19:50.079 Yes, what what is the opening game? 2727 02:19:51.719 --> 02:19:54.159 I have it here somewhere I don't remember offhand, but 2728 02:19:54.280 --> 02:19:57.360 as usual, it's in Kansas City. Yeah, there you go, 2729 02:19:57.600 --> 02:19:58.079 big game. 2730 02:19:58.840 --> 02:20:01.440 Yeah. I don't even know who the Vikings playing their 2731 02:20:01.479 --> 02:20:05.840 first game. I'm gonna look this up on NERK Giants. Yeah. 2732 02:20:07.360 --> 02:20:09.120 I would say, I would say an easy first Treek, 2733 02:20:09.159 --> 02:20:10.360 but I don't know that the Viking is gonna have 2734 02:20:10.440 --> 02:20:11.440 many easy weeks this year. 2735 02:20:13.159 --> 02:20:19.719 No, no, yeah, all right, it's a Sunday new game. 2736 02:20:20.319 --> 02:20:22.760 All right, Todd. We will wrap up there and come 2737 02:20:22.879 --> 02:20:24.600 back with the fixed minback. 2738 02:20:25.319 --> 02:20:25.719 That's good. 2739 02:20:42.879 --> 02:20:45.319 Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions 2740 02:20:45.440 --> 02:20:48.719 or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at 2741 02:20:48.799 --> 02:20:52.440 PTW torch dot com. That's Wade Keller Podcast at PW 2742 02:20:52.639 --> 02:20:55.479 torch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even 2743 02:20:55.559 --> 02:20:58.600 follow us on Twitter at pw Torch and follow me 2744 02:20:58.840 --> 02:21:02.440 at the wade Keller. That's at PW Torch and at 2745 02:21:02.639 --> 02:21:03.680 the Wave Keller. 2746 02:21:05.479 --> 02:21:08.440 Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me 2747 02:21:08.600 --> 02:21:12.120 Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. 2748 02:21:12.559 --> 02:21:14.840 Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from 2749 02:21:14.879 --> 02:21:16.920 me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need, along 2750 02:21:17.000 --> 02:21:19.920 with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling 2751 02:21:19.959 --> 02:21:23.280 Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in 2752 02:21:23.319 --> 02:21:27.000 the pro wrestling industry. 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