Speaker 1: A PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you ad
Speaker 1: free access to these shows and a ton of other
Speaker 1: VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain
Speaker 1: access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our
Speaker 1: contemporaneous week to week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly
Speaker 1: newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with
Speaker 1: streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows
Speaker 1: from the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with
Speaker 1: wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast
Speaker 1: library dating back to the year two thousand and three.
Speaker 1: There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than
Speaker 1: that that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now
Speaker 1: approaching twenty years of podcasting, go vip and dive into
Speaker 1: our post pay per view roundtables, our coverage of some
Speaker 1: of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form interviews,
Speaker 1: and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years.
Speaker 1: Pwtorch dot com slash go vip. We have a streamline
Speaker 1: signup form and you can pay with PayPal or directly
Speaker 1: with your credit card or debit card in one or
Speaker 1: two minutes from right now, you can be a VIP
Speaker 1: member and diving into our library. PW torch dot com,
Speaker 1: slash go VIP.
Speaker 2: Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Killer
Speaker 2: Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for the weekly flagship talking
Speaker 2: current events in pro wrestling.
Speaker 1: All right, Todd, Well, let's begin with a conversation about
Speaker 1: Sid Vicious, Sid Uty, Sid Justice, Psycho Sid. You can
Speaker 1: kind of tell when someone became a fan in bart
Speaker 1: if it was during the nineties, based on how they
Speaker 1: knew sidbest, what they remember him most as, or at
Speaker 1: least what wrestling they were watching. When you think of Sid,
Speaker 1: what name that he used comes to mind? First?
Speaker 3: Oh, I thought you would go differently. I thought I
Speaker 3: thought you were gonna say based on how fondly they
Speaker 3: remember them, because I think you had to sort of
Speaker 3: be there to sort of remember him fondly. I don't
Speaker 3: know that there's gonna be a big difference in terms
Speaker 3: of like how people remember him, because I mean, he
Speaker 3: was you know, I mean people known from Sid Vicious
Speaker 3: principally from you know, the eighty nine to ninety you know.
Speaker 3: Then well, I mean, because there's the w he jumped
Speaker 3: around because the guy, you know, the guy wasn't terribly reliable.
Speaker 3: But I mean he was said Vicious eighty nine to
Speaker 3: ninety one, and then you know, said Justice in ninety
Speaker 3: one ninety two, and then said Vicious ninety three to
Speaker 3: ninety five, and then you know, Psycho said from ninety
Speaker 3: five to you know ninety seven, and then you know
Speaker 3: Sid Vicious again in ninety nine two thousand. So I
Speaker 3: don't know, that's so much of a generational thing. I
Speaker 3: The first said I knew was Sid Justice, because as
Speaker 3: I mentioned from time to time on the show, that
Speaker 3: when I got into wrestling again was when I moved
Speaker 3: back to the States from Singapore, where I'd been living.
Speaker 3: And I was very excited because I've been watching old
Speaker 3: tapes in Singapore that I didn't realize we're old tapes
Speaker 3: from like six months in the past. And then I
Speaker 3: returned to the States and I was back up on
Speaker 3: live that w television is supposed to like six month three runs.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, all this stuff happened.
Speaker 3: It was very exciting. And when that happened, it was
Speaker 3: the build for Summerson like Tanty one and uh and
Speaker 3: that was you know, one of the hooks of Summer
Speaker 3: semin ninety one was the debuting Sid Justice for for
Speaker 3: the UH for the tag match with with Hogan and
Speaker 3: and Warrior against the US called the Triangle of Terror,
Speaker 3: the Sergeant slaudron and and UH and UH General Mustafa
Speaker 3: Iron Cheek. So that was where I first knew him.
Speaker 3: But I think he's better known on balance as either
Speaker 3: Sid Vicious or Psycho said, And I would say Sid
Speaker 3: Vicious is what I think most people call him, or
Speaker 3: just Sid, just because he's known under a bunch of
Speaker 3: different names.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So what do you what do you think
Speaker 1: of his place in wrestling history, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: what what tear or category does to kind of fall
Speaker 1: into in terms of what what he's known for, his
Speaker 1: level of success, his impact, his UH sort of subjective
Speaker 1: aesthetic contributions.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think he'll be like terribly well
Speaker 3: remembered in the big picture because he didn't ultimately be
Speaker 3: He didn't ultimately ultimately end up being a difference maker
Speaker 3: in the way I think people were thinking he might
Speaker 3: be at one point. But I mean there was the
Speaker 3: period there where people were thinking that he would be
Speaker 3: a big deal because I mean, uh, I mean, and
Speaker 3: and he fit for the He fit the times, you know,
Speaker 3: like he you know, he's this big, muscle bound dude.
Speaker 3: Not a good wrestler, but that didn't matter at that point,
Speaker 3: a bit of a head case outside the ring, which
Speaker 3: did matter ultimately, And you know, he's the sort of
Speaker 3: person that the you know that big promotions would you know,
Speaker 3: would really sort of clamor over, you knows, this guy
Speaker 3: that just sort of looked the role at that at work,
Speaker 3: looked the part at that point. What I find interesting
Speaker 3: about him is that you would think that, you know,
Speaker 3: with that archetype, that he'd be someone that was not
Speaker 3: as well received by you know, hardcore fans, who would
Speaker 3: you know, sort of think this guy isn't very good.
Speaker 3: But that wasn't the case at all. He was the
Speaker 3: hardcore fan choice back then. I think it reflects the
Speaker 3: way one of the ways that wrestling business has changed.
Speaker 3: You know, I myself gravitated towards better performers most of
Speaker 3: the time, you know, from the point I was a kid,
Speaker 3: but I really liked to city to speak myself, and
Speaker 3: most big longtime fans I talked to did as well
Speaker 3: that were there through that time. Period because you know,
Speaker 3: fans at that point cared more about wrestler's coming off
Speaker 3: is as badasses, and he came off like a total badass.
Speaker 3: You know, the swagger, the way he talked. You know,
Speaker 3: he'd come to the ring talking trash, you know, about
Speaker 3: to murder some porchemo. And there was sort of a
Speaker 3: Mike Tyson element to his squash matches where you know,
Speaker 3: he was coming out there to you know, to to
Speaker 3: cause mayhem, and that was you know, that was appealing.
Speaker 3: There was an energy to it, and you know, while
Speaker 3: he could say some goofy stuff sometimes I thought also
Speaker 3: he was a very effective interview, you know, with the
Speaker 3: gimmick of speaking softly and then screaming, screaming loudly, and
Speaker 3: then speaking softly again. You know, it wasn't you know it.
Speaker 3: It didn't always work, but I thought it it often
Speaker 3: was was very effective. And you know, from the time
Speaker 3: he started heating up with you know, with the skyscrapers,
Speaker 3: you know, the places that he tended to be the
Speaker 3: big biggest were you know those you know, those Northeast audiences.
Speaker 3: You know, if you go back and watch those old
Speaker 3: uh you know it was you wouldn't watch the all
Speaker 3: VHS tapes now, but you know, you watch those shows
Speaker 3: from that time period he was coming up. You know,
Speaker 3: he had the the big reactions in Philly, Baltimore, New York.
Speaker 3: Those were you know, some of his big cities, and
Speaker 3: there's an element of danger there.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Power bomb was on the top move that era. All
Speaker 3: sorts of people have that as a finisher or a
Speaker 3: variation of it as a finisher, and I would argue
Speaker 3: that no one's power bomb looked more impressive or more
Speaker 3: dangerous than sids, you know sometimes because it was often
Speaker 3: pretty dangerous. You know, he injured some people with that,
Speaker 3: but it looked, it looked, it looked very impressive, and
Speaker 3: you know, it made for a you know, an impressive
Speaker 3: package for you know, shorter explosive matches. In particular. He
Speaker 3: was not someone to you know, to throw in a
Speaker 3: you know, in a fifteen minute match and expected to
Speaker 3: be any good. I can't. I can't even think of
Speaker 3: a single longer sit match it was good. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean I suppose if it went and looked into it,
Speaker 3: you know, I could probably find something that I enjoyed
Speaker 3: those longer but I can't think of one, you know,
Speaker 3: but it didn't. It didn't matter that much for that
Speaker 3: time period. But I mean, ultimately, you know, as much
Speaker 3: at the beginning, he didn't have the career that he
Speaker 3: could have because he was constantly sabotaging himself. You know,
Speaker 3: when he got hot with the Skyscrapers and joined the Horseman,
Speaker 3: he was going to be one of the top stars
Speaker 3: in the business. But it just, you know, one thing
Speaker 3: after another. You know, there was using Harvey Wipplman's urine
Speaker 3: for for a drug test and then getting fired when
Speaker 3: Vince von am In after you know, a massive push.
Speaker 3: There was you know, the squeegee incident with with Brian Pellman.
Speaker 3: More infamous the scissors incident with Arn Anderson when he
Speaker 3: was going to be WCW champion, which led to Ric
Speaker 3: Flair taking his place and having what I think was
Speaker 3: the last you know, really great match of you know,
Speaker 3: classic match of Rick Flair's career against Vader at starr
Speaker 3: K ninety three, which would not have happened in that
Speaker 3: you know particular setting, if if if Sid hadn't gotten
Speaker 3: the thing with Arn, you know, constantly getting released or
Speaker 3: fired and bouncing around. You know, I heard you talking
Speaker 3: about it sort of like as a guy that sort
Speaker 3: of like was missing something, and perhaps he was, but
Speaker 3: I don't really think of it that as being born
Speaker 3: out in the sense that like, there are people that like,
Speaker 3: you know, like they were given their run, and the
Speaker 3: promotion was hoping that they'd make it at a bigger
Speaker 3: level than they did, and they just didn't take as
Speaker 3: with the fans as the promotion hoped that they would.
Speaker 3: But with said, the thing was that you know, the
Speaker 3: periods where he would have been most likely to you know,
Speaker 3: to succeed h you know, he would get injured or
Speaker 3: something would come up before we got a chance to see,
Speaker 3: you know, how well it would have done. And so
Speaker 3: we never really, I thought, got the sort of the
Speaker 3: definitive answer on that. And you know, he got world
Speaker 3: title runs a few times later on, but by that
Speaker 3: point it was you know, the you know, in ninet
Speaker 3: ninety seven and nine sinety nine, those are just you know,
Speaker 3: like measures to get to something else. Those aren't the
Speaker 3: idea of like, oh, we're going to build around said
Speaker 3: in the way ww was preparing to in ninety one,
Speaker 3: in ninety three again, and WF was preparing to in
Speaker 3: ninety two. But you know, circumstances Uh, circumstances intervened, And
Speaker 3: that's sort of the way I think of of of
Speaker 3: Sid Uh principally is Uh is a guy where he
Speaker 3: just sort of shot himself in his own foot. But
Speaker 3: in some ways I kind of wish wrestling was more
Speaker 3: like Sid's wrestling. You know, like, yeah, you get some
Speaker 3: bad in the ring as opposed to a lot of
Speaker 3: good in the ring. But I like the feeling that
Speaker 3: I think people were energized by with Sid, which was
Speaker 3: wrestlers were you know, dangerous wild cards rather than well
Speaker 3: behaved art students, and that was, you know, that was
Speaker 3: the appeal of of of Sid. It was it was
Speaker 3: much more of an m a fighter thing where you know,
Speaker 3: like you know, you're you're like, oh my god, this
Speaker 3: guy's going to kill some people. I would argue it
Speaker 3: is different than a lot of the sort of the
Speaker 3: muscle bound types of that time period, although there was,
Speaker 3: I mean, that was part of the appeal just muscle
Speaker 3: on people in general. It was the idea that they
Speaker 3: were like a physical threat from that, but like he
Speaker 3: was less like the idea of like oh it doesn't
Speaker 3: need you know, look, you know, looks so impressive though
Speaker 3: he did, but more the attitude and demeanor, which I
Speaker 3: think would have translated even if he didn't have the
Speaker 3: exact same body type. And as you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: he wasn't his muscle miner earlier in his career like
Speaker 3: he only you know, he sort of got more jacked
Speaker 3: up as he uh as he went on.
Speaker 1: How do you think he would have translated to today's wrestling?
Speaker 1: Where would he fit in or not fit in? And
Speaker 1: where would you recommend he'd be slotted or how he
Speaker 1: would be used? If you know, you got kind of
Speaker 1: his peak, you know, five six years of access.
Speaker 3: I don't think it would translate very well because the
Speaker 3: the the the key with him was, you know, the
Speaker 3: the elements I talked about. And you know, now people
Speaker 3: fans are so much more interested in the quality of work,
Speaker 3: and if you don't have that quality of the world,
Speaker 3: people kind of get bored of you over time, even
Speaker 3: if they become interested for a period, just because there's
Speaker 3: so much television and if you can't really go very much,
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's difficult to be like a weekly
Speaker 3: presence week after week with work as as as bad
Speaker 3: as sid I you know, I compare it to Wardlow,
Speaker 3: where like you know, in war there is a better
Speaker 3: at wrestler than Sid ever was. But like the hook
Speaker 3: of Wardlow was similar to the hook of Sid, Like
Speaker 3: just sort of explosive, impressive looking guy in the context
Speaker 3: of the roster, and you know, would do a you know,
Speaker 3: a squash match that looked impressive and sort of destroy people,
Speaker 3: you know, with power bombs. So you know, sort of
Speaker 3: a similar dynamic there. And you know, Wardlow got over
Speaker 3: for a time period there, but it was difficult for
Speaker 3: him to sustain. I think for similar reasons they would
Speaker 3: be difficult to sustain, and said now, I think, you know,
Speaker 3: the fan base of today, even some of the people
Speaker 3: that liked him back then, if a you know version
Speaker 3: of him came along now, I think the same people,
Speaker 3: if they've been watching the whole time, would be more
Speaker 3: likely to turn up their nose at them now than
Speaker 3: they would back then because the context of everything has changed.
Speaker 1: Thanks for downloading today's show. Take it to the next
Speaker 1: level with a VIP membership. Get shows like this, the
Speaker 1: Weaight Keller Prosing podcast, Weightkeller Prosing Post Show, and the
Speaker 1: PW Torch daily casts on our PW Torch VIP podcast
Speaker 1: feed with ads and plugs removed from the shows for
Speaker 1: a streamlined listening experience, and also hear the VIP exclusive
Speaker 1: shows that I host with Rich Fan and Todd Martin,
Speaker 1: Everything with Rich Fan and The Fix with Todd Martin
Speaker 1: signature VIP series that you're missing out without a VIP membership.
Speaker 1: So go VIP here in twenty twenty two and enjoy
Speaker 1: all the benefits, all the bonus content and the ad
Speaker 1: free listening experience. PW Torch dot com slash go VIP
Speaker 1: all right, A quick introduction here. This is the Waight
Speaker 1: Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast, a special Thursday flagship edition for
Speaker 1: August twenty ninth, twenty twenty four. And I am Wade Keller,
Speaker 1: the editor, publisher and founder of the Progressing Torch newsletter
Speaker 1: and the website pw toorch dot com and the host
Speaker 1: of a variety of podcasts throughout the week, including the
Speaker 1: Wayde Keller Podcasts, the Wadekeller Post shows those are free,
Speaker 1: and also a variety of VIP shows, one of which
Speaker 1: is The Fix with Todd Martin. I host that every Thursday.
Speaker 1: We talk for usually over four hours. First half roughly
Speaker 1: is current events, the second half is the Fixed mail
Speaker 1: bag where listeners of The Fix send in an eclectic,
Speaker 1: wide ranging mix of current events, historical, and just kind
Speaker 1: of fun offbeat questions that mostly Todd answers, but I
Speaker 1: join in also a decent amount of the time. And
Speaker 1: that is a VIP exclusive show, which you can find
Speaker 1: out more about at Pwtorch dot com slash go VIP.
Speaker 1: It is a many VIP members look forward to this
Speaker 1: show on a weekly basis, and now you get a
Speaker 1: chance to listen for yourself and see if you might
Speaker 1: be one of those people who wants to hear it.
Speaker 1: Every week on a semi regular basis, we feature a
Speaker 1: simulcast of that week's Fixed Current Events show as the flagships.
Speaker 1: You get a sense of what the show is like,
Speaker 1: and this is one of those weeks, So let's get
Speaker 1: back to it. We have so much more to cover,
Speaker 1: including thoughts on the vincick Mann documentary. The docu series
Speaker 1: is coming out on Netflix, premiering in about a month,
Speaker 1: and a lot more about WWE's lead up to Bashion
Speaker 1: Berlin with a preview of Bashion Berlin, and much more.
Speaker 1: But first we're going to move on to a discussion
Speaker 1: about Brian Danielson winning the aw World title. I've got
Speaker 1: a bunch of thoughts and questions for Todd about where
Speaker 1: we go from here and the path to getting here.
Speaker 1: So let's get back to the conversation. I want to
Speaker 1: start before we get into kind of running down some
Speaker 1: of the AWTV leading into the pay per view. Is
Speaker 1: just the way the news about Brian Danielson and now
Speaker 1: we handled yesterday on Dynamite announcing or clarifying or confirming
Speaker 1: the way he's gonna handle the title Ragne, which is
Speaker 1: he's going to defend it, be a fighting champion and
Speaker 1: then when he loses, he will not be a full
Speaker 1: time wrestler anymore. With a little tease that he was
Speaker 1: going to give up the title and not defend it
Speaker 1: at all. What you think of a way of the
Speaker 1: way w handled it and uh, and then Danielson's delivery
Speaker 1: the message and uh and then Jack Perry stepping up
Speaker 1: and how they how they went about that.
Speaker 3: That is a great segment. I thought. Uh, I thought
Speaker 3: Danielson was, you know, a strong as the sympathetic guy
Speaker 3: that you like and a is uh, you know, sort
Speaker 3: of teasing you a little bit with the idea that
Speaker 3: maybe you won't get any more of him, which is
Speaker 3: just you know, there to make you excited that you're
Speaker 3: going to get more of him and make the what's
Speaker 3: uh left of his title run feel film, more fuel,
Speaker 3: more pressions. So so yeah, I thought I thought it
Speaker 3: was a strong close to the show and a uh
Speaker 3: good way to you know, a good way to uh
Speaker 3: to cook coffin Ryan. And I think, you know, Perry's
Speaker 3: a perfectly fine choice, particularly giving you only have a
Speaker 3: two week beild as the uh the guy for him
Speaker 3: to uh to uh you know, go against and presumably
Speaker 3: go over before they move on to other things.
Speaker 1: Do you think jack Berry and Danielson headlines goes on last?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think I don't think it's going
Speaker 3: to be the most anticipated match on the show, but
Speaker 3: I think, you know, they are good enough that I
Speaker 3: think Tony will trust them too, you know, to have
Speaker 3: a really good match and it's the world you know,
Speaker 3: it's the mentoral title, and you know, I think probably
Speaker 3: the match it'll I mean, we'll see, but I would
Speaker 3: think that the match it will be the the most
Speaker 3: anticipator will probably be the hangman uh swerve match. But
Speaker 3: you know it's not it's not aw'smo or most companies
Speaker 3: mos to have, you know, the guy that h that
Speaker 3: they just lost the world title put on last you
Speaker 3: know after the guy that just won the world title
Speaker 3: kind of undercuts the world tyler?
Speaker 2: Do that?
Speaker 1: Uh kind of big picture with Danilson right now? What
Speaker 1: value does he have as the world champion in terms
Speaker 1: of TV ratings, pay per view, match quality, adding to
Speaker 1: aw's legacy, their current brand, all of that at this
Speaker 1: time and relative to what he might have meant if
Speaker 1: they did this earlier, and would they have really missed
Speaker 1: out by not doing it at all? How do you
Speaker 1: feel about that?
Speaker 3: Well? I mean, certainly they could have gotten more out
Speaker 3: of him than they had. As you've noted, he's and
Speaker 3: has been evident. You know, they've had him sort of
Speaker 3: losing a lot and been in sort of position of
Speaker 3: the other person being the focus and he's sort of
Speaker 3: there to try to get over other people and you
Speaker 3: know it, and you know, oftentimes he's sort of been
Speaker 3: more of the you know, either the subtle hero, more
Speaker 3: overt heal when people just like him a lot, which
Speaker 3: doesn't end up being a great role for him. So
Speaker 3: I don't think they've gotten a ton out of him
Speaker 3: to this point. Other than he's a great performer and
Speaker 3: so you get, you know, really good matches out of him,
Speaker 3: and he's a cool personality. Having your television, he's you know,
Speaker 3: more of a star than than than most people they have,
Speaker 3: but it's an ensemble promotion. He hasn't been been a
Speaker 3: big difference maker one way or another, and I don't
Speaker 3: expect him to be a big difference maker, uh you
Speaker 3: know during his titleign because you know, he's already been
Speaker 3: sort of rained the level he is and you know,
Speaker 3: over the over the time period, we haven't seen in
Speaker 3: aw uta, you know, the world champion typically been being
Speaker 3: a big, a big driver of business anyway. You know,
Speaker 3: it's sort of the biggest indicator of whether aw pay
Speaker 3: per views are doing well is it's just sort of
Speaker 3: how much interest there is in the product generally speaking.
Speaker 3: And you know, the exceptions the rule have been things
Speaker 3: like Sam Punk and uh instincts retirement and Danison hasn't
Speaker 3: been uh presented at that level. Could he theoretically have
Speaker 3: been a different difference maker at that level potentially, but
Speaker 3: you know it's it's at this point, it's hypothetical, I think.
Speaker 1: And from a title Wayne state sandpoint, how long do
Speaker 1: you think he's going to hold the title? Do you
Speaker 1: have any any inclination?
Speaker 3: I think I'll probably lose it before the end of
Speaker 3: the year, but I'm not sure exactly how long they'll
Speaker 3: uh they'll do it. I mean, just more because he's uh,
Speaker 3: you know, he's been pretty explicit about the idea of
Speaker 3: of wanting to get out there soon, or rather get
Speaker 3: out of there, you know, in terms of a full
Speaker 3: time before sooner rather than later. So it would seem
Speaker 3: odd after, you know, sort of making a point of
Speaker 3: that that he then worked for another year in this role.
Speaker 3: But I mean, I, as we've talked to him many times,
Speaker 3: I'm expecting you know, him to you know, to lose
Speaker 3: the title and maybe take three months off and then
Speaker 3: just you know, it'll it won't be that different than
Speaker 3: what it is right now. I'm not unexpecting this to
Speaker 3: be a big, you know, a big change in Danielson's career,
Speaker 3: even if he's thinking it was more of a change
Speaker 3: right now. I just there's way, way, way too much
Speaker 3: history and progressing of everybody you know coming back and
Speaker 3: wanted to continue to work because they enjoy doing it,
Speaker 3: and Danielson enjoys doing it more than most of those people,
Speaker 3: and he's already been less you know, committal on the
Speaker 3: idea of like stepping aside than most of those people
Speaker 3: were too. So yeah, I you know, I'm not I
Speaker 3: kind of grit my teeth a little bit when I
Speaker 3: hear people talk about retirement, because the idea of that
Speaker 3: he's going to retire anytime soon just seems farcical to me.
Speaker 3: Like I you know, we were talking before the before
Speaker 3: the show about sort of probabilities and like, you know,
Speaker 3: like barring some sort of you know, serious injury. I mean,
Speaker 3: the the odds that he's not going to be wrestling,
Speaker 3: you know, barring injury in twenty thirty two strike me
Speaker 3: is really really low. I mean, I really think the
Speaker 3: only thing that would stop him is injury, and I'd
Speaker 3: be willing to go much later than that, you know.
Speaker 3: In terms of predicting where this thing ends up, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I put.
Speaker 1: A pull up on people ge Torch asking for people
Speaker 1: to say which Danielson match or which Danielson Tittle defense
Speaker 1: opponent they're most eager to see. Nigel McGinnis is in
Speaker 1: first place of twenty four percent. Well Last Ray second
Speaker 1: place fifteen percent. John Moxley, Kazuchikolkata and mjf all in
Speaker 1: double digits, and then Darby allan Christian Cage at nine
Speaker 1: percent swerves Strickland in a rematch way down at six percent.
Speaker 1: Does anything I just throw out there surprise you? And
Speaker 1: where are you in terms of the matches that on
Speaker 1: two levels one you'd most like to see happen. I
Speaker 1: know you think there's eight plus years to go to
Speaker 1: see him in these matches, but playing out the idea
Speaker 1: that the odds perhaps go down quite a bit in
Speaker 1: terms of how frequent he will be wrestling. If you
Speaker 1: were willing to stipulate to that, what would you like
Speaker 1: to see him get in in the next several months
Speaker 1: on that list or anyone that identic glued to.
Speaker 3: The pole, I mean, like it's it doesn't matter that
Speaker 3: much in the short term because even if you're promised
Speaker 3: on the eddie, he's not gonna be wrestling very much
Speaker 3: like when it comes back for big matches. Those the
Speaker 3: sorts of big matches he's gonna have, so it's not
Speaker 3: really a hurry. And in any of those, I mean,
Speaker 3: it makes sense that McGinnis would be would come up
Speaker 3: high because that's the match, you know, whether intentionally from
Speaker 3: a promotional standpoint or not, that that is the one
Speaker 3: that's been built the most with Nigel, you know, doing
Speaker 3: all the discussion on commentary and reminding people of the
Speaker 3: program that he had with them back there, along with
Speaker 3: you know, the fact that he put in a pretty
Speaker 3: good showing overall it all in that I've got people
Speaker 3: talking about that. And you know, he had you know,
Speaker 3: a a great, you know, phenomenal match with with with
Speaker 3: Osprey last time out, and uh, you know Okada, he
Speaker 3: had really good matches it as well. Well I think
Speaker 3: there were two, but yeah, if I'm yeah, I'm pretty
Speaker 3: sure they were really good as well. So you know,
Speaker 3: all of those makes sense and and uh and they've
Speaker 3: got a lot of a lot of good options. I
Speaker 3: don't think there's any sort of obvious you know, like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is what you've well you've definitely got to do.
Speaker 3: And I mean Danielson is also a guy where like
Speaker 3: he you know, he just wants to work with people
Speaker 3: that sort of you know, strike his uh his fancy
Speaker 3: for for you know, for for one reason or another,
Speaker 3: Like you know, he really wanted to work with with
Speaker 3: Etchi Sero. You know, he talked about wanted to work
Speaker 3: with you know, I think I think he's trying to
Speaker 3: want to work with minors Zuki uh and and uh
Speaker 3: and uh Atlantis and and I remember talking I wanted
Speaker 3: to work with with Blue Panther at one point. And
Speaker 3: so like there's you know, there's a lot of a
Speaker 3: lot of people that sort of you know, are appealing
Speaker 3: for formal reason or another. I think that's you know,
Speaker 3: one of the reasons they're doing the Darby Allen thing,
Speaker 3: the two you know, the two guys from the Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 3: I don't think they've had a match, and so, you know,
Speaker 3: I think, uh, you know, that's another one that you know,
Speaker 3: sort of jumps out at him as just sort of
Speaker 3: a fun match from the do. So there's there's tons
Speaker 3: of options. And danis and is such a fun uh
Speaker 3: such a fun wrestler to watch, and he has so
Speaker 3: many different styles that he can work very effectively. That
Speaker 3: makes him, you know, a good opponent for for pretty
Speaker 3: much anybody. And and uh, you know, he's he's also
Speaker 3: a guy that can have different types of matches with
Speaker 3: different sorts of opponents. There are some opponents who can
Speaker 3: have a you know, great match with with most people,
Speaker 3: but it'll be their type of match, and Danisen can
Speaker 3: have great matches different sorts of people. It'll be different
Speaker 3: types of matches. So you know, there's plenty of plenty
Speaker 3: of good options.
Speaker 1: When he hands the belt off to the next guy.
Speaker 1: Is there somebody that makes the most sense who might
Speaker 1: benefit the most from beating somewhat of Danielson's stature, or
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter if even if it's a transitional
Speaker 1: champion who loses it on the next pay per view,
Speaker 1: the Danielson handoff isn't isn't important enough to even worry
Speaker 1: about who that person is. It's more just what's convenient
Speaker 1: at the time they want to kind of run out
Speaker 1: the calendar on his reign.
Speaker 3: The latter I mean, I think I think you just
Speaker 3: look at whoever you want to see get the next opponent.
Speaker 3: I mean, I like, as I said, I mean, if
Speaker 3: you're if the premise of the idea is that people
Speaker 3: in three years are gonna be talking about the end
Speaker 3: of Danielson's career and this guy ended Danison's career, then yeah,
Speaker 3: you'd be thinking on that context. But you know, as
Speaker 3: I started outline, that's not the way I'm thinking, I'm
Speaker 3: thinking about it as you know that that it's just
Speaker 3: going to be it's going to be the end of
Speaker 3: Dani's the title on and Danis will still be around
Speaker 3: doing match some time to time, maybe less frequently, maybe
Speaker 3: not all that much less frequently, And so the idea
Speaker 3: of like, I'm the person that beat Danielson is not
Speaker 3: going to stand out in the way that it would
Speaker 3: wear a different circumstance. So you know, I don't think
Speaker 3: I don't think it matters so much who beats him
Speaker 3: from that context and his mortgage to question who you
Speaker 3: think is is a good choice the next champion, and
Speaker 3: you know it's I mean, things are sort of up
Speaker 3: in the air and that in that regard and that
Speaker 3: you know, aw sort of ram through. I mean, Tony's
Speaker 3: talked about how he had his plan for who he
Speaker 3: was going to put the title on for the first
Speaker 3: you know, so many title ons, and he you know,
Speaker 3: hit all of those, and you know, from that point
Speaker 3: they hit other you know, sort of top people, and
Speaker 3: you know it at this point it's sort of not
Speaker 3: you know, it's not clear who you know, who's who
Speaker 3: are going to be the champions moving forward and that's fine.
Speaker 3: You know, they can sort of map it out to
Speaker 3: go along. I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure Tony likes
Speaker 3: the idea of having, you know, put in the title
Speaker 3: on a cot at some point. But other than that,
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't, you know, I'm not sure it
Speaker 3: will jump out in his uh, in his mind.
Speaker 5: Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts,
Speaker 5: will come join me Alan frel Over in the Progress
Speaker 5: Paradise at PWOOD Torch VIP as we mask on the
Speaker 5: bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
Speaker 5: great matches and shows from around the world, be it
Speaker 5: the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place
Speaker 5: for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done
Speaker 5: fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series
Speaker 5: celebrating the glorious career of Jusian thunder Lighter and Our
Speaker 5: Eye Was There When shows where our guests will join
Speaker 5: me to talk about a classic bout that they were
Speaker 5: in attendance for. We love variety and you can expect
Speaker 5: lots of it at the Pro wrest Paradise. Detailed PW
Speaker 5: Torch VIP subscription information and a list of all all
Speaker 5: the VIP benefits is available at pterwrew torch, vip info
Speaker 5: dot com and yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible with
Speaker 5: popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you
Speaker 5: can stream them directly from our ad free VIP mobile site,
Speaker 5: see You in the Paradise.
Speaker 1: As a thought exercise, if Danielsen wrestles rarely after he
Speaker 1: loses a title, it like for years to come, but
Speaker 1: maybe he comes back in four years and that's a
Speaker 1: long run, like you know, Adam Copeland, and you do
Speaker 1: want to hand it off to someone, so three years
Speaker 1: from now, using your words, we're still talking about it
Speaker 1: is does that person exist right now in the roster
Speaker 1: like we're you'd be like, well, okay. As a thought exercise,
Speaker 1: even though I'm establishing I don't think there's a likelihood
Speaker 1: of this. Is there somebody on the roster. I'm kind
Speaker 1: of curious who you'd come up with that that like, yeah,
Speaker 1: if that's the case, if this is a big deal,
Speaker 1: it's Danielsen truly the end of his full time career,
Speaker 1: a couple of matches every few years at most he
Speaker 1: has Again, is there someone you'd be like, yeah, that
Speaker 1: should be the person.
Speaker 3: I mean I don't think people fans are that concerned
Speaker 3: with the idea of, oh, this person beat that person,
Speaker 3: you know, to close out some specific thing. I think
Speaker 3: that was a bigger deal during the time period when
Speaker 3: people thought of it as more real and the sort
Speaker 3: of the context what's going on to you have, like, oh,
Speaker 3: you ended this big thing. It was like a bigger deal,
Speaker 3: like you know, people remembering Ivan Coleo Off being Bruno
Speaker 3: San Martino for example. I don't think that dynamic is
Speaker 3: there as much anymore. But I mean with that said,
Speaker 3: I mean there's a lot of talent on the roster,
Speaker 3: so I mean you could you could pick a you know,
Speaker 3: a variety of uh of people that it would be
Speaker 3: good to give them, you know, sort of an added
Speaker 3: bump of one sort or another, and you know, you
Speaker 3: would you would gravitate more I think towards younger people
Speaker 3: in that role you know that you know you're gonna
Speaker 3: have for a while. I mean, I wouldn't choose Perry,
Speaker 3: even though he's on the younger side and the short
Speaker 3: of potential, I don't I don't see him as being
Speaker 3: a guy that's sort of going to be a perennial
Speaker 3: top guy. I've talked in the past about about Tekashtra
Speaker 3: and uh, you know, you know, thinking of him as
Speaker 3: a guy that could be a you know, a top
Speaker 3: guy for a long period of time in in a
Speaker 3: w and still you know, still under thirty. But I
Speaker 3: don't know that they they think of him that way.
Speaker 3: So you know, that's sort of them, it's that But
Speaker 3: those are those are the you know, those are the
Speaker 3: people that that uh that that come to mind at first.
Speaker 3: I mean, I I don't know that, you know, I
Speaker 3: don't know that it would be sort of the right
Speaker 3: dynamic with sort of wanting it back from him and
Speaker 3: then sort of uh, you know, using that as sort
Speaker 3: of a talking point with him, even though he's a
Speaker 3: guy that they're gonna, you know, have plans for over
Speaker 3: the long haul, and uh, you know they already did
Speaker 3: you know, they already had mg I beat Danielson and
Speaker 3: you know some memorable and memorable feud you know, a
Speaker 3: little while back. So I don't know that he would
Speaker 3: get a lot more out of going back and being
Speaker 3: in Danielson again. So yeah, there's isn't someone that you
Speaker 3: know in particular that seems like the one guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 3: Too.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's bros and cons to just
Speaker 1: a handful of names, some of whom you covered, but
Speaker 1: a lot can happen in terms of how they're portrayed
Speaker 1: in the next two to three months too. You know,
Speaker 1: Katta could get ice cold or a little hotter. Garcia
Speaker 1: could catch fire and you're like, oh, maybe that's the guy,
Speaker 1: even if he's not long term champion we want him
Speaker 1: to have on his record he did that. I'm just
Speaker 1: grabbing sort of random names off, you know, off the
Speaker 1: top of my head. Those those factors could change. But again,
Speaker 1: it is under the premise that it would even matter
Speaker 1: at all, because if Danielson just ends up wrestling, you know,
Speaker 1: in a way that's not super distinguishable from how often
Speaker 1: he's been wrestling lately over the last few years in
Speaker 1: the perception of aw fans, then it's not gonna matter. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: let's let's just pivot and I'll throw you to run
Speaker 1: down Rampage and Collision and the lead up to all
Speaker 1: in this weekend.
Speaker 3: So Rampage Star with Kylo Riley, Mark Bresco and Tomo.
Speaker 3: Here is she beating Beast, Mortos, buying Cage and Johnny
Speaker 3: TV when O'Reilly submitted Johnny TV pretty good. And then
Speaker 3: after that the rest of the show, We're Squashes. Roderick
Speaker 3: Strong went to squash of Fuego do Soul. I can't
Speaker 3: remember the last time foeg dol was on AW television,
Speaker 3: and the answer was twenty twenty two won a squash
Speaker 3: over Robin Renegade. Karashida did an interview where she was
Speaker 3: very angry that no one cares Mercedes Money cheated to
Speaker 3: beat her and angry that she's lower on the card
Speaker 3: heading into all in. Obviously she wasn't on all in,
Speaker 3: and you know, uh, basically it was pretty clear that
Speaker 3: she's turning heel and she wasn't fully heal here, but
Speaker 3: it you know, it was it was not subtle that
Speaker 3: that's where this is going. And uh, she's really been
Speaker 3: working on her English, which is it's quite good. So
Speaker 3: I was impressed by that. And uh yeah, she cut
Speaker 3: a uh an angry, indignant promo and is you know,
Speaker 3: a uh a positive trait. I think of a lot
Speaker 3: of heel turns. She had a specific reason for why
Speaker 3: she's presumably going to start acting like more of a jerk,
Speaker 3: and there was you know, there's you could see your
Speaker 3: point there. You know, there was a righteous indignation, which
Speaker 3: you know, then we'll move in UH in the wrong
Speaker 3: direction presumably. Then we got another squash, gatesw Agony beating
Speaker 3: the Iron Savages, and final squash was the one Eric's
Speaker 3: beating the odd Runners in ten minutes. And then at
Speaker 3: the end of the show they did that thing where
Speaker 3: a big show's coming up, so a bunch of random
Speaker 3: people ran out and they fought to UH to close
Speaker 3: the show. Then Collision started with Mark Briscoe, Kylo Riley
Speaker 3: in Orange Cassidy beating Roderick Strong, Matt Tavin and Mike Bennett.
Speaker 3: Match kind of kind of odd that they you know,
Speaker 3: the show on Friday started with a very similar match
Speaker 3: the show that started the show on Saturday, and one
Speaker 3: was in Texas and the other was in England but
Speaker 3: taped you know, a week apart, but not a big deal.
Speaker 3: Willow and Nightingale beat Harley Cameron a quick match. They
Speaker 3: set up a ten man tag with Dustin, Sammy Shabbata
Speaker 3: and Van Erics for the pay per view. Shabbata beat
Speaker 3: Jay Lethal. It was okay. They did a training vignette
Speaker 3: for Stokey Hathaway and Chris Christtlander going into the mixed
Speaker 3: tag on the pay per view, and I guess in
Speaker 3: the pre show, I figured they play it for total comedy,
Speaker 3: and there was some comedy, but they played it more
Speaker 3: straight than I expected. Then Stokely and Statt beat kidcos
Speaker 3: two and Nina Samuels in a very quick match in
Speaker 3: advance of the match with is She and Willow, so
Speaker 3: nice to get a few, a few uh you know,
Speaker 3: sort of names from the from the local scene and
Speaker 3: progress on the show. And up to that point it
Speaker 3: had been a you know, typical uneventful collision. And then
Speaker 3: Hook and Big Bill are having a match, and again
Speaker 3: there's there's not not a ton to it, you know,
Speaker 3: just a continuation of what had been kind of a
Speaker 3: sleepy show. And all of a sudden, Big Bill starts
Speaker 3: mocking Hook and tazzes mannerisms, and the crowd decides, damn it,
Speaker 3: we're gonna have some fun here, and they start wildly
Speaker 3: cheering Bill. They're popping for everything he does, they're booing
Speaker 3: everything Hook does. They're just having fun with it. It
Speaker 3: was not happening like that at all until until Bill
Speaker 3: started doing those mannerisms. And I think if I were.
Speaker 3: You know, I think if I were Hook, I probably
Speaker 3: wouldn't be very happy with it because, uh, you know
Speaker 3: it was him sort of doing that that you know,
Speaker 3: that that that turned the crowd and and uh made
Speaker 3: it harder for for for Hook, but you know, he know,
Speaker 3: he's just trying to get some some at some reaction,
Speaker 3: and uh, you know, it became a very fun atmosphere
Speaker 3: and hooked one with the contage. Crowd booed, but it
Speaker 3: was still a fun time there. Then we got Jeff,
Speaker 3: Jared and Aria Davari in a ten minute match with
Speaker 3: those suspense and that sounds like an awful way to
Speaker 3: be wasting time the night before your biggest annual show. Jeff,
Speaker 3: Jared and Ario Davari for ten minutes. But the crowd
Speaker 3: again decided they're going to have some fun, and so
Speaker 3: they pop huge for Jeff. They chanted for Jeff, they
Speaker 3: sang for Jeff, they cheered for Jeff. He was having
Speaker 3: a ball. He was like, it's the glory Days again.
Speaker 1: Another another MPE few years ago, more.
Speaker 3: Sore, significantly more so. It was you know, it was
Speaker 3: you know the Jeff you know, double j rides again.
Speaker 3: He was thinking, he was he was having you know,
Speaker 3: having having dreams in there of holding the world title again,
Speaker 3: and uh, it ended up being really fun time and
Speaker 3: then the main event was Claudio.
Speaker 1: Is is it an Is it a good thing that
Speaker 1: the biggest things or one of some of the biggest
Speaker 1: things getting a reaction in a W would be something
Speaker 1: like that, Like, is that a sign the crowd is
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, the acclaimed in Billy Gunn getting
Speaker 1: the biggest pop Like, is that success? So it validates
Speaker 1: putting Billy gun there? Or does it mean you're you're
Speaker 1: not getting people excited about current things? So basically harmless
Speaker 1: fun or a symptom of something that maybe should be
Speaker 1: a little a little concerning.
Speaker 3: Oh no, it's definitely not a good sign. I wouldn't
Speaker 3: put it though in terms of AW promotion in general
Speaker 3: and more the Collision brand, because you know, this was
Speaker 3: I don't think specific to to AW in general. I
Speaker 3: mean perhaps it was in general, but it was more,
Speaker 3: you know, Collision just doesn't offer you very much and
Speaker 3: this show did not offer you very much. And so
Speaker 3: the crowd, which you know, these you know, the crowds
Speaker 3: you know in Europe love you know, participating and getting
Speaker 3: exciting and getting excited and whatnot, and so you know,
Speaker 3: they I think wanted to have a good time, and
Speaker 3: you know they they got you know again Briscoe, O'Reilly
Speaker 3: and Orange against Strong, Tavin and Bennett, which is fine,
Speaker 3: Will Nightingale against Harley, Cameron Shabbat against Jay Lethal, you know,
Speaker 3: Stokely and Statlander against kid like us Too and Nina Samuels,
Speaker 3: you know, and then hooking Big Bill and you know,
Speaker 3: crowd just decided Hey, I mean, which still isn't like
Speaker 3: that big of a match, but it's like, hey, we
Speaker 3: want to get into this. So I don't view it
Speaker 3: as sort of like a you know, sort of we
Speaker 3: don't care about anything that's going on in AW because
Speaker 3: you know, MGF was not at there, Osprey was not
Speaker 3: out there. You know, Danilson was not out there, Swore
Speaker 3: was not out there. None of these people were on
Speaker 3: the show. You know. The main event is we'll talk
Speaker 3: about here was Claudio, Wheeler, Yuda and Pak against Top
Speaker 3: Fight Leo Rush. So yeah, I mean, it certainly is
Speaker 3: sort of an implicit rejection of interest in the you know,
Speaker 3: the the stuff that's on Collision. But I mean Collision
Speaker 3: is not intended to be like a big show, Like
Speaker 3: they know what Collision is. I mean, they're not oblivious
Speaker 3: to that. I'm not justifying it, by the way. I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't think their approach to Clision is good, but
Speaker 3: I don't think they'd be shocked that, like their offerings
Speaker 3: on Collision are getting you know, you know, muted would
Speaker 3: get muted reactions from most of the fan base because
Speaker 3: they're not giving you their stuff here though they're over
Speaker 3: you know, they're overseas. They don't get nearly as many
Speaker 3: shows there the crowd that really wanted to get into stuff,
Speaker 3: and so they just picked random stuff because they wanted
Speaker 3: to get into stuff, and the stuff they were they
Speaker 3: were getting for that show was not high priority stuff.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean it is you know, it's not
Speaker 3: a great sign in that sense, But what would be
Speaker 3: a great sign on the show like that they were
Speaker 3: bigger into Claudio? I mean, like is that really like,
Speaker 3: I mean, there's there wasn't you know, there wasn't something
Speaker 3: that was really significant to aw in general or all
Speaker 3: in for them to get into, and so they just
Speaker 3: picked random stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that the good answer in terms of
Speaker 1: definitely the context of the moment mattering more the Billy
Speaker 1: Gun pops being bigger than like or you know, being
Speaker 1: big for Billy Gun during the acclaimed is sort of
Speaker 1: an ongo thing. But the Jared thing, although he's certainly
Speaker 1: in other context in AW, has seemed to do pretty
Speaker 1: well for himself. Where I think, you know, five years ago,
Speaker 1: people to predicted if Jeff Jarrett got a bunch of
Speaker 1: DV time in twenty twenty four. My own is AW fans,
Speaker 1: based on the core mission statement of AW, would groan
Speaker 1: or be a little nervous or feel like things went
Speaker 1: went a little awry.
Speaker 3: So I just put them in different categories. I think
Speaker 3: I think the point that you're making in general is true.
Speaker 3: Like you know, at times in AW and frankly in
Speaker 3: B for years when W wasn't doing as well, you'd
Speaker 3: get reactions to sort of ironic comedy bits or nostalgia
Speaker 3: at a higher level than the stuff that was presented
Speaker 3: as the most important stuff on the show, because the
Speaker 3: people didn't care that much about what was the most
Speaker 3: important stuff on the show. And so yeah, there are
Speaker 3: periods where like, yeah, I mean, you don't want Billy
Speaker 3: gunn to be getting a bigger reaction than the people
Speaker 3: that you're pushing most the show, and that's a bad
Speaker 3: sign here. I don't think this was so much like
Speaker 3: we love Jeff Jarrett more than you know, than than
Speaker 3: Danielson or you know, sore because we remember him from
Speaker 3: years back. I think this was just literally like they've
Speaker 3: reached about the halfway point of the show. There, nothing's happening,
Speaker 3: and so like, let's get into this hook big Bill match,
Speaker 3: and then they just start going crazy. And then Jeff
Speaker 3: Jarrett was the next guy that came out after Big
Speaker 3: Bill and they decided, hey, you know they're not gonna
Speaker 3: they're not gonna rally behind Ari Davari. So Jeff Jarrett
Speaker 3: there's our guy, and uh and uh it was. It
Speaker 3: was fun stuff. I it was. It was positive because
Speaker 3: I don't remember whether I made this point on uh
Speaker 3: on on about another show, but I don't think it was.
Speaker 3: I think this was the one where when Jeff Jarrett
Speaker 3: came out and now I'm now questioning myself. Whatever, you know,
Speaker 3: they like, if it was a different show than than
Speaker 3: Find whatever.
Speaker 1: I think we should talk a little bit more.
Speaker 3: Wait, I don't like when you do that. I don't
Speaker 3: like when you do to yourself and I like it
Speaker 3: even less when you do it with me. So uh so,
Speaker 3: so you know, he comes out, well, his music comes
Speaker 3: out right, the music hits, the crowd explodes, and it
Speaker 3: was there was such a cognitive dissonance between and I'm
Speaker 3: dinostic because I feel like I had a note here
Speaker 3: somewhere about this exact thing. Was this on dynamite like
Speaker 3: that would that would undercut my my my theory that
Speaker 3: it was just that there were that Jeff Jerrett came
Speaker 3: out at this point. But one of these shows in
Speaker 3: last week, the crowd hit and the reaction was so
Speaker 3: big that I I I had to wonder. I was
Speaker 3: wondering to myself whose music that was, because my mind
Speaker 3: would just not connect the idea that this reaction was
Speaker 3: Jeff Jaerrett, and then once it was Jeff Jarre is like,
Speaker 3: oh yeah, I guess that is Jeff Jarrett's music. But
Speaker 3: the the the loud cheers just you know, made it
Speaker 3: seem like a foreign experience to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, interesting. You don't have to wait for the
Speaker 1: way Keller Pro Wrestling post show to find out what
Speaker 1: I thought of Monday Night Raw and SmackDown. Each week.
Speaker 1: You can check out my reports that are updated live
Speaker 1: throughout Raw and SmackDown at pwtorch dot com. My written
Speaker 1: report will tell you what's happening in detail in case
Speaker 1: you missed the show, and it will also analyze key
Speaker 1: segments and give my random thoughts quips on what I'm
Speaker 1: watching as it airs. So check it out every Monday
Speaker 1: night and Tuesday night at pewtorch dot com. That also
Speaker 1: applies to wwepayperviews. I cover those live at pw torch
Speaker 1: dot com with a detailed written report with star ratings.
Speaker 1: And of course you can find other TV reports from
Speaker 1: other contributors to pw torch such as nxt roh, Impact
Speaker 1: Wrestling and more. Check it out pwtorch dot com your
Speaker 1: first stop for TV and pay per view written reports. Okay,
Speaker 1: so that covers rampage and.
Speaker 3: No it didn't because the main event was Claudia Wheeler
Speaker 3: and Hawk beating Top finally a rush to qualify for
Speaker 3: the ladder match. Pretty good match, and then we got
Speaker 3: a brawl with Patriarchy and House of Black and the
Speaker 3: bank banking at the end and that close quession.
Speaker 1: Yep, you brought it up twice. Once I interrupted you
Speaker 1: and once I think you interrupted yourself and that's what happen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that got me thrown off a little. Okay, very good.
Speaker 1: So we obviously already reviewed the pay per VIEUS Sunday
Speaker 1: night on the VIP Roundtable with rich Fans, so we'll
Speaker 1: jump to last night's Dynamite. We talked length about the
Speaker 1: closing sitement with Daniel Sin, but we'll march you the
Speaker 1: rest of the show here. They First of all, did
Speaker 1: the crowded around two thousand in a big arena stand
Speaker 1: out out to you? Or do you think a w
Speaker 1: has gotten actually pretty good at aiming the camera in
Speaker 1: the right way and producing a show and setting it
Speaker 1: up acoustically and audibly where it didn't feel minor league
Speaker 1: And if this is amongst the lowest crowds outside of
Speaker 1: Jacksonville that they've ever had for Dynamite, I didn't.
Speaker 3: Notice it until I heard other people talk about it later,
Speaker 3: So yeah, I didn't jump out at me on all.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't even say that they've gotten good at it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think they're good at from the beginning.
Speaker 3: And you know there's some of those people like sort
Speaker 3: of like note that as sort of like a problem
Speaker 3: with aw going on the road an advocate for going
Speaker 3: on smaller buildings, and like, I'm not saying like one
Speaker 3: one's better than the other. I'm I think it would
Speaker 3: be fine from the go to smaller buildings. I think
Speaker 3: it's fine for them to run larger buildings. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I just not viewed as being a big deal because
Speaker 3: I feel like the thing, you know, the shows feel
Speaker 3: perfectly you know, perfectly professional, the way that they're shot
Speaker 3: in uh in in in uh with a smaller crowd.
Speaker 3: Now granted I haven't I haven't ever been one where
Speaker 3: it was like on the smaller side, but I've definitely
Speaker 3: been to their tapings where you know, they had you know,
Speaker 3: they had the camera side filled then and then they
Speaker 3: had the you know, the mostly empty third of the
Speaker 3: arena and going to that it didn't it didn't. It
Speaker 3: didn't feel to me like, oh this is you know,
Speaker 3: things are struggling here are like, oh, I think loss
Speaker 3: of the promotion, which I would have seemed the possibility
Speaker 3: to me before that but didn't for whatever reason while
Speaker 3: taking in the show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's good that the production ability of
Speaker 1: AW whether they've improved or not, is such where if
Speaker 1: you can not think about it while you're watching the show.
Speaker 1: There is when the crowds are this small, the absence
Speaker 1: of what WWW has as a positive in what AW
Speaker 1: at times, including Sunday at Wembley have going for them,
Speaker 1: which is WHOA, this is red hot, wide camera angle,
Speaker 1: lots of fans up to the last row. That's an
Speaker 1: extra It's sort of like extra credit. It's just like
Speaker 1: an extra boost to Oh, this product seems hot. This
Speaker 1: wrestler is in a featured segment in front of a
Speaker 1: crowd where the camera's panning every part of the building
Speaker 1: and they're going nuts. WWE has that more often than
Speaker 1: not these days. AW has had it at times, especially
Speaker 1: early on, including the first Dynamite and the weeks afterwards
Speaker 1: a months after to where we talked about God. One
Speaker 1: of the biggest assets AW has is this crowd. The
Speaker 1: crowd week to week to week is just elevating these
Speaker 1: some of the newer names and some of the free
Speaker 1: agents that they picked up, but especially the names that
Speaker 1: were less familiar to those who were were not familiar
Speaker 1: with them but watching them on national cable for the
Speaker 1: first time. The AW lacks that. So even if there's
Speaker 1: you're not noticing a negative, there is an absence of
Speaker 1: a positive that would be beneficial when you're trying to
Speaker 1: come across as a hot product and create new stars,
Speaker 1: or just give a boost to stars that have been
Speaker 1: around a while and feel a little cooled off. And
Speaker 1: so I think it's worth differentiating between those two things.
Speaker 1: Because they were good with the setup of the sound
Speaker 1: last night where it didn't sound super echoey, But there
Speaker 1: have been times where they've been in buildings where there
Speaker 1: hasn't been in a big crowd and there was just
Speaker 1: something about the echo in the building and it could
Speaker 1: just be the acoustics of the facility too, more than
Speaker 1: anything Aw's done. So yeah, whatever the reason is, I
Speaker 1: think they're at a point where they can have a
Speaker 1: crowd of two thousand in a major league looking building
Speaker 1: because their stage looks good and they shoot it well
Speaker 1: that it's not going to just pull the product down.
Speaker 1: But the absence of that boost is a bummer, and
Speaker 1: you would obviously rather have that, You'd rather have ten
Speaker 1: thousand people.
Speaker 3: I don't I don't know. Wait, I'm gonna take the
Speaker 3: other side on this one. I don't think there are
Speaker 3: any positives that come with Archer crowds.
Speaker 1: Yes, all right, Oh, go ahead, then, no kidding, So
Speaker 1: let's just speaking of uh, John Moxley.
Speaker 3: It got a refresha How's how's John Moxley speaking of that?
Speaker 1: Because I'd said that when you have a super big crowd,
Speaker 1: some of the stars who've been around and cooled off
Speaker 1: can seem like big stars, uh like, it can kind
Speaker 1: of be the wind in their sails.
Speaker 3: In terms of all And so John Moxley is the
Speaker 3: guy that's that's cooled off. I mean, I guess that's
Speaker 3: still more charitable than the way i'd taken it, which
Speaker 3: was like speaking of people who perform in front of
Speaker 3: small crowds John Moxley, but it was still kind of
Speaker 3: uh yeah, I don't I don't know that. And I
Speaker 3: guess Boxley is cooled off to some of the great
Speaker 3: that's true, But I mean I don't think he's ever
Speaker 3: gotten like cold. I think he's been a popular the
Speaker 3: entire time of the uh his entire time there. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And as far as the segment goes, I mean, I'm
Speaker 3: intrigued where it's going. And I don't use that word
Speaker 3: as liberally as you do, but I'm concerned that it
Speaker 3: sure felt like he's going heel again and It's frustrating
Speaker 3: to me that wrestling promotions just don't learn their lesson
Speaker 3: when it comes to try and turn to turn faces
Speaker 3: that people just inherently like and have shown no signs
Speaker 3: of losing their interest in. And you know, we've just
Speaker 3: seen it flop miserably and hurt the wrestlers involved so
Speaker 3: many times, you know, from Becky Lynch to Okada to
Speaker 3: you know the BCC and Danison and Okada that you
Speaker 3: know just last year. But you know, hopefully they've got
Speaker 3: a fresh idea that's going to add some energy of
Speaker 3: the show. And you know, it was, it was an
Speaker 3: interesting start. I'm curious where they're going with it. And
Speaker 3: you know, after someone wrote the mail bag about doing
Speaker 3: more with Marina Shafir a few weeks ago, they're going
Speaker 3: to get their wish. Hopefully. I'm not wrong that too
Speaker 3: much damage has been done to or for it to
Speaker 3: be effective, But certainly, if I'm Marina Shafir and I'm
Speaker 3: hoping that I can I can get hot here. You know,
Speaker 3: you you it would be hard to present a scenario
Speaker 3: that would get me a lot more. A realistic scenario
Speaker 3: would get me much more optimistic than I'm gonna repair
Speaker 3: with John Moxley. So that seems like a good spot
Speaker 3: to be if you're a Marina Shafear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so a couple of things to pluck from this.
Speaker 1: What did you think of him calling out Derby? And
Speaker 1: it wasn't antagonistic? He said, it's about time you and
Speaker 1: I had a talk and I won't be hard to find.
Speaker 1: Do you like the idea of a faction or a
Speaker 1: team or an alliance or a protege mentorship kind of
Speaker 1: like Sting Darby had with Sting with Moxley and Derby?
Speaker 1: And and what do you expect from this? Or is
Speaker 1: it I'm calling out because I want to beat yep?
Speaker 3: I think he's turning kal and going you got Derby.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's not what I want, but I think
Speaker 3: that's really want with it?
Speaker 1: And why do you think there's a storyline reason that
Speaker 1: in any way is out there why he would aim
Speaker 1: in particular for Derby. If if it is, I want
Speaker 1: to I'm going to beat you up? And here's why.
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe he views him as sort of like a
Speaker 3: you know, sort of promotional poster boy for AW, and
Speaker 3: he's down on the direction AW has taken, and so
Speaker 3: he wants to sort of beat some sense into Darby
Speaker 3: and aw By extension something like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then what do you make the line this
Speaker 1: is not your company anymore?
Speaker 3: Same thing?
Speaker 1: But was it aimed at Shabani?
Speaker 3: I mean, I think I think the explanation that it's
Speaker 3: directed at Atu at Tony Kahan would make more sense.
Speaker 3: But just the idea in general that he's, you know,
Speaker 3: he's taking over the company and you know, the the
Speaker 3: what represents, he doesn't like, what aw is going to
Speaker 3: is become to represent, and he's looking to bring it
Speaker 3: in a different direction in line with what he wants,
Speaker 3: and he views Darby as part of that.
Speaker 1: All right. Uh, then we had the congaboration in hook
Speaker 1: injured by Renee Piquette backstage. Anything stand out there?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 3: Not really, Yeah, just your typical colomeration interview.
Speaker 1: Yes, they are somewhat interchangeable other than on occasion the
Speaker 1: things they say, but the whole kind of pattern of things.
Speaker 1: So is she and Hangman went seventeen minutes, hay Man
Speaker 1: got the win, talk about that match and then the
Speaker 1: angle with swerve of afterwards.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I okay, sorry, I uh, I was confused because
Speaker 3: I I deleted my note, so which would explain why
Speaker 3: I didn't have anything there. Yeah, I thought I thought
Speaker 3: the match was very good, very much enjoyed that hard hitting.
Speaker 3: As far as the postmatch, I liked the start with
Speaker 3: the intense showdown. I didn't really like what it turned
Speaker 3: into though. You know, nobody buys that home invasion nonsense.
Speaker 3: It wasn't like that got sort of over. Fans just
Speaker 3: didn't buy it, and they roared it, so move on, Like,
Speaker 3: he doesn't need to apologize for it, but it sure
Speaker 3: is in making him likable or cool to lean in
Speaker 3: on it, just like that affected villain laugh isn't cool
Speaker 3: and doesn't make him likable either. He needs to drop that.
Speaker 3: It was like he was trying to be a heel
Speaker 3: taunting and menacing hangman rather than just being a cool,
Speaker 3: collected dude who's not going to back down from this
Speaker 3: crazed monster of his own creation, which to me is
Speaker 3: what the story should be. And it also that vincent
Speaker 3: man thing where two people are supposed to be in
Speaker 3: this blood feud and they just stand there listening to
Speaker 3: each other talk for a minutes on end. So I
Speaker 3: didn't think it was it was terribly productive in advancing
Speaker 3: that story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for so it's hard because of how they've handled
Speaker 1: this so far to have like faith that they have
Speaker 1: any idea where they're going, or to assume that they do.
Speaker 1: But what do you think happens with hang mantes Worth
Speaker 1: coming out of the cage match? What direction to both
Speaker 1: characters going?
Speaker 3: I mean, I think I think Swerve wins and hanglan
Speaker 3: Page channels his anger into something else. I think that's
Speaker 3: the the most likely outcome.
Speaker 1: And Swerve is a babyface and sort a heal.
Speaker 3: Oh no, sorry, I thought you said I think I
Speaker 3: said hang out. Oh yeah, a baby face hangings to heal. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean I I don't have any doubt about about
Speaker 3: that dynamic, in spite of like the segment itself trying
Speaker 3: to create doubt in that. Like if you know, if
Speaker 3: I if I watched that segment and I knew no context,
Speaker 3: I would say that you know that that sworb is
Speaker 3: definitely a heel. And I don't know what's going on
Speaker 3: with Hangman, but I guess they're doing something weird with
Speaker 3: him as a baby face. But you know, like I,
Speaker 3: you know, I do have greater context than just that
Speaker 3: one angle.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, ah right, So then Jamie Hater got a
Speaker 1: quick one over Harley Cameron about three and a half minutes.
Speaker 3: What do you think? Yeah, I started out rough but
Speaker 3: got better as it went on.
Speaker 1: And did they did they frame and do enough to
Speaker 1: celebrate or or highlight Jamie Hater coming back? And how
Speaker 1: do you feel about where she fits in in the
Speaker 1: women's division?
Speaker 6: Now?
Speaker 3: I thought it was fine. You know, it's coming out
Speaker 3: of paper that a lot of things emphasize. Yeah, they
Speaker 3: chose to emphasize other things more and nothing that they
Speaker 3: chose to emphasize seems to me less worthy of emphasis
Speaker 3: than Jamie Hater's return. And as far as where she's
Speaker 3: going coming out of this, I mean, clearly she's gonna
Speaker 3: have the feud with with Soraya. She'll beat Soreya. And
Speaker 3: you know they got to they got to two of these,
Speaker 3: these two co equal titles, so presumably she'll go after
Speaker 3: one of those. Uh, you know, so that's I would
Speaker 3: I would.
Speaker 1: Think, yeah, all right. Then Renee interviewed the participants in
Speaker 1: the Heel. Participants in the eight Man taken of later
Speaker 1: Roderick Strong, Jericho Bill, and Brian Keith and anything stand
Speaker 1: out there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just a whole bunch of b style cartoon characters.
Speaker 3: The one nice thing though, wait, I'm sure you'll appreciate
Speaker 3: this is they're all five words or less. Guys. You know,
Speaker 3: Jericho is insincere. Hi, guys, Dude, Big Bill is the
Speaker 3: chill Redwood. Brian Keith is the ornery bad Apple. Roderick
Speaker 3: strong strong A screams the first word.
Speaker 7: Guy.
Speaker 3: You know, they've they've got all of you know, they've
Speaker 3: got it all wrapped up in meat. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 3: Jericho's an all time legend. I've you know, been a
Speaker 3: big fan of his for a long time. But I
Speaker 3: think he's a dragon on the entire show in this role.
Speaker 3: I think, you know, just this is not what you
Speaker 3: want your show to be. Is just you know, gimmicky
Speaker 3: cartoon you know, derby By characters and a guy that
Speaker 3: kind of has go away heat, you know, week after week.
Speaker 1: Why do you think, well, actually, step back, what do
Speaker 1: you think of Jericho's reinventions in the past. How is
Speaker 1: this different and is it different in and of itself
Speaker 1: or different because of the context of aw in the
Speaker 1: timeframeer and in wrestling compared to other sort of representations
Speaker 1: of himself and reinventions or refreshes.
Speaker 3: I think he's had a lot of very successful reinventions.
Speaker 3: I mean, not all of them were great, but you know,
Speaker 3: like you know, when it first returned to he owned
Speaker 3: w c W and and sort of created that character
Speaker 3: the first time, it was very you know, he's very effective.
Speaker 3: When he turned into sort of a main more main
Speaker 3: event babyface, he was very effective in that role as well.
Speaker 3: You know, there's a Nick Bockwinkle thing which was also
Speaker 3: very effective. The you know, the the run with with
Speaker 3: Kenny Omega and early aw with you know, with singing
Speaker 3: Judas and all that was was was very effective as well.
Speaker 3: So he's he's had a lot of very successful reinventions
Speaker 3: as far as what's going on now here. There just
Speaker 3: comes time with different wrestlers where fans aren't into them anymore.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's nothing wrong with it, like I you know,
Speaker 3: like there's so many I've brought this up from time
Speaker 3: to time, but like they are wrestlers when I got
Speaker 3: into wrestling, where I watched them in the state that
Speaker 3: they were in and I just was like, why are
Speaker 3: they these people even on the show? And I think
Speaker 3: that's the perspective of the people that aren't longtime fans
Speaker 3: that know them when they were more effective character, and
Speaker 3: they just you know, it's like, why not Dick Murdock.
Speaker 3: You know, I first saw Dick Mark, I was like,
Speaker 3: what is Dick Murdock doing here? And then later I
Speaker 3: saw Dick Murdock in his prime, and I was like,
Speaker 3: Dick Murdock is great. But Dick Murdock in nineteen eighty
Speaker 3: nine was not great. He wasn't effective anymore. You know,
Speaker 3: Sean Waltman had a great career, but they've reached a
Speaker 3: point where, for whatever reason, people were like, I just
Speaker 3: don't want to see Sean Walman anymore. And you could,
Speaker 3: you know, you could, you could intellectualize why they shouldn't
Speaker 3: feel that way, but that was just the way they felt,
Speaker 3: and having him on the show wasn't terribly effective relative
Speaker 3: to other people. The Hardys, they you know, they reinvented
Speaker 3: themselves a million times, you know, Matt Hardy, like he
Speaker 3: came up with different ideas, came up with different ideas,
Speaker 3: like he had an nice, long career, and they're just
Speaker 3: to reach a point where people didn't care that much anymore.
Speaker 3: It happens. It's just that's the way of the world.
Speaker 3: And you know, I I get why once people you know,
Speaker 3: reach that position. They don't want to admit it to
Speaker 3: themselves and they make rationalizations, but you know, it's you know,
Speaker 3: just like you know, like when when you know, when
Speaker 3: when uh, when fighters are at the end, the end
Speaker 3: of their career, and you know, it's it's evident to them,
Speaker 3: you know, not not evident to them, it's evident to
Speaker 3: everyone watching them that they don't have it anymore. They're
Speaker 3: getting knocked out, they're moving slower, but they're thinking, oh,
Speaker 3: my training is going so well, and they remember what
Speaker 3: they had before, and they just don't want to believe
Speaker 3: that it's it's it's over and something that's changed. And
Speaker 3: even if they could spot in the in the the
Speaker 3: the the same fighters like them, but for them, it's different.
Speaker 3: And you know, that's that's in my opinion, the situation
Speaker 3: with Jericho. I mean, it's it's unfortunate, but I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm I'm analyzing this from the standpoint of
Speaker 3: what's you know, what's good for the show, what's you know,
Speaker 3: good for the business in general? And you know, you
Speaker 3: can it's you know, there's sort of it. I mean,
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, like this sort of an unfairalm,
Speaker 3: but there's an unfair Amum, that's the way of the world.
Speaker 3: You know, like we all got old, and it's you know,
Speaker 3: it's it's sad. I mean, I wish the you know,
Speaker 3: the human aging process were a lot longer. You know,
Speaker 3: I'd love to, you know, live five thousand years and
Speaker 3: do all sorts of stuff and and and you know
Speaker 3: just feel, you know, exactly as the same that I felt,
Speaker 3: you know, twenty years ago and in twenty years. But
Speaker 3: you know, that's that's not the way things are going
Speaker 3: to go unfortunately.
Speaker 8: Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Speaker 8: Jason Powell, host of the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Speaker 8: Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis for
Speaker 8: me and my team at pro wrestling dot Net along
Speaker 8: with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling
Speaker 8: Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
Speaker 8: the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and itunices, Ditcher, Downcast, and
Speaker 8: all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at
Speaker 8: PW boom dot com. Once again, that's pw boom dot com.
Speaker 1: So talk about people not realizing that their time is
Speaker 1: expired for what made them relevant in their field outside
Speaker 1: of the torch in the wrestling analyst journalists field. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about some names.
Speaker 3: Todd, you go first, Wait, that's like a general joke.
Speaker 3: That like that, like you know, one could just use
Speaker 3: in general as like a gag and we laugh. But
Speaker 3: that that is I'm not even gonna touch that one.
Speaker 1: You think the aggregators wouldn't have fun with that.
Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm not. I'm not touching that one. I'm
Speaker 3: not even as like a gag. Ha ha, Yeah, let's
Speaker 3: joke about this one, not touching it.
Speaker 1: What about the silence? What about the silence that speaks?
Speaker 3: Wait, that's move on, speak another time, another setting, and
Speaker 3: we we we joke. We have jokes like that.
Speaker 1: He says a lot right now, the urgency to want
Speaker 1: to move away from this topic is really telling.
Speaker 3: Okay, wait, moving on to the next subject.
Speaker 1: I well, no, I have a fallo up on Jericho.
Speaker 3: You know, you're usually nice in that weight. I think
Speaker 3: glass of you doing that? That was that was That
Speaker 3: was a mean thing you just did right there.
Speaker 1: Well, I was thinking I can't think of anyone everyone's
Speaker 1: great who's been around for a while, no one, no
Speaker 1: one has reached that stage. Wait, moving on all right, Jericho,
Speaker 1: So you talked a lot about sometimes it's just the
Speaker 1: time has come. Is it this particular with this particular
Speaker 1: direction he's gone in with this persona of Jericho and
Speaker 1: the learning tree? Would it have worked in a different
Speaker 1: timeframe and would it have to be tweaked? Like I'm
Speaker 1: general Ker's like, are you thinking there's almost nothing Jericho
Speaker 1: could do? It's just it's time, you know, no matter
Speaker 1: what you do, or now it's this choice. This choice
Speaker 1: is so tone deaf, or it's flopped and they should
Speaker 1: have adjusted or moved on.
Speaker 3: Oh no, I mean there's a clear point here, and
Speaker 3: there was that point last year where the thing came
Speaker 3: out with with uh, what's her name? Uh? Right, I've
Speaker 3: learned not you know that I get myself into trouble
Speaker 3: where I start describing people just by like, oh, it's
Speaker 3: the person who did this, and then I invariably come
Speaker 3: up with some sort of insulting description.
Speaker 1: So rather than that, many of our listeners grandma's name
Speaker 1: or daughter's name.
Speaker 3: Is to quickly pull out their name and then uh
Speaker 3: and then go and then and then move on.
Speaker 1: From there, what's your term behind their name?
Speaker 3: Though? I thought I thought for sure that they were
Speaker 3: on a specific show, and then it turns out they
Speaker 3: weren't on that specific show, and that you know that,
Speaker 3: God damn it, what a disappointment that I turned out
Speaker 3: to be. Let's try it. Let's try Uh. I've got
Speaker 3: another idea to figure out this person? Who this person is?
Speaker 1: Uh, just hold hold the phone up to your head
Speaker 1: and say a I who am I trying to think of?
Speaker 3: I know exactly thinking of? And I could start giving
Speaker 3: you a bunch of descriptions for it. But like I said,
Speaker 3: if I, if I, if I, if I do that,
Speaker 3: it's gonna be a one note characterization of this person.
Speaker 3: And I am not going to do that. I'm just
Speaker 3: gonna keep stalling for time until I find the same.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Uh, Kylie Ray, there we go. Yes,
Speaker 3: the the the you know, the you know the little
Speaker 3: period there where you know the the Kylie Ray voiced
Speaker 3: some you know, some clear allusions to Jericho having something
Speaker 3: unpleasant reactions you know, uh, inac interreactions with hr. At
Speaker 3: some point this the thing was not really spelled out
Speaker 3: at any point. People tied it into you know, to
Speaker 3: to speaking out whether that's fair, whether that's not fair,
Speaker 3: and you know, that broke in a period before an
Speaker 3: aw pay per view, and there was talk about whether
Speaker 3: he might be pulled from the pay per view, whether
Speaker 3: he might be pulled from the company. And you know,
Speaker 3: the reactions to Jericho have been negative ever since. So
Speaker 3: I mean, that was the clear point. And you know,
Speaker 3: I still you know, as we talked, we talked about
Speaker 3: the show that that night, I wasn't, you know, ready
Speaker 3: to sort of uh, you know, to to to call
Speaker 3: for Jericho to be fired or something when we didn't
Speaker 3: even have explicit allegations, let alone, you know, let alone
Speaker 3: have confirmation that the allegations were true. But you know, regardless,
Speaker 3: and I mean, I guess you I guess you could argue, well,
Speaker 3: you know, well, I don't know. I mean I was
Speaker 3: I was thinking, like, well, you don't want to like
Speaker 3: punish someone for something they didn't do. But it's I mean,
Speaker 3: as Evans by the fact I didn't call from the
Speaker 3: to you know, to to to to be doing less
Speaker 3: at that point, and I am now like at this point,
Speaker 3: he's just not effective as a part of the show.
Speaker 3: And you know, he created this character specifically to deal
Speaker 3: with the fact he was getting those sorts of reactions
Speaker 3: and the character is not in my opinion, I mean,
Speaker 3: it's not whether the character is working or not working.
Speaker 3: It's just like as of Tigers, the aw's promotion that
Speaker 3: really needs its own positive identity. It does not need
Speaker 3: to come across as debt to be light. And the
Speaker 3: Jericho thing is just like bad deda Bee. It's just
Speaker 3: this goofy cartoon guy doing wacky, you know, winking stuff
Speaker 3: that you can't take seriously. And you know, it's just
Speaker 3: like this tonal, you know, you know, it's it's just
Speaker 3: a bad tonally in the context of the show, you know,
Speaker 3: not unlike you know, the acclaimed, but you know there's
Speaker 3: a number of characters like that, and you know, Jericho
Speaker 3: is is the worst of the bunch.
Speaker 1: Is there any value for Chris Jericho if you're Paula Back?
Speaker 1: What a change of scenery? Erase some of this? Is
Speaker 1: it in some way tied to the a W fan
Speaker 1: base and the AW aesthetic and culture or and there's
Speaker 1: enough history with him in w w B. He'd get
Speaker 1: a welcoming nostalgia pop and another chance to represent himself.
Speaker 3: If I were bringing him in his Paula back, and
Speaker 3: I'm not sure bring him in at all. It would
Speaker 3: be a short term thing, you know, like we're gonna
Speaker 3: you know, sort of a last you know, last little run,
Speaker 3: coming to to b one last time, do a program
Speaker 3: and then do you know, a retirement type deal at
Speaker 3: at at wrestlemaning and do a Hall of Fame something
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 1: All right, all right, So back to Dynamite and march
Speaker 1: through the segments here, the m j F promo and
Speaker 1: then Danny Garcia attacking him. Yeah, your your thoughts on
Speaker 1: on this thumbs up, thumbs down.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thumbstown. Earlier when you were doing you know, when
Speaker 3: you let into that, you know that that ambush question
Speaker 3: that you you threw out that we're not gonna go
Speaker 3: into any further. I thought that you were going to
Speaker 3: lead Jeff was where you're going here because MGF to me,
Speaker 3: feels lost as a character. Part of what made him
Speaker 3: so effective as a heel was it was so easy
Speaker 3: to buy into him being the jerk that he was
Speaker 3: portrayed as on television. And then he did that you know,
Speaker 3: that stupid year long tern where he never really explained
Speaker 3: why he turned and he's putting over the fans and
Speaker 3: then he just randomly turns back one week and rather
Speaker 3: than easing back into it into making you buy him
Speaker 3: as a jerk again, he just leans into the most contrived,
Speaker 3: cheap heat every week and it feels so phony. And
Speaker 3: playing the American patriot for a few weeks because he's
Speaker 3: wrestling in other countries only to then come back to
Speaker 3: America and denounce America is the epitome of that. And
Speaker 3: that was an issue going into this, but like this,
Speaker 3: like you know, made it even worse. Of like this
Speaker 3: guy that just comes across like everything he's doing is
Speaker 3: just he's just doing because he's playing a bad guy,
Speaker 3: and that's there's not heat in that. Like it's hard
Speaker 3: to get real heat when you just feel like you're
Speaker 3: trying so hard to be the bad guy. You know,
Speaker 3: he you know what, he should have been the one
Speaker 3: to randomly slap his own mother at the ringside because
Speaker 3: that was so on brand for what he's doing right now.
Speaker 3: And he needs to simplify everything and try to feel
Speaker 3: like a believable human being again. And my big recommendation
Speaker 3: for him would be for the next year to always
Speaker 3: be thinking about the reason why he's doing every heelish
Speaker 3: thing he's doing. You know, not because he's a bad
Speaker 3: guy and that's what bad guys do, but because there's
Speaker 3: something in it for him, or he has a specific
Speaker 3: reason for not liking individual people. There's you know, there's
Speaker 3: a reason in his head for why he's doing these things.
Speaker 3: You know, if there's a motorcycle rider who is in
Speaker 3: an accident and he's you know, the guy's thrown from
Speaker 3: his vehicle, he's lying on the side of the road
Speaker 3: and it's you know, it's not a crowded time, and
Speaker 3: there's a car, you know, there's car driving by. A
Speaker 3: good person is going to stop and try to help
Speaker 3: the person who's laid out on the side of the road.
Speaker 3: After this accent, a bad person might drive on because
Speaker 3: they don't want to be bothered. MJF and his incarnation
Speaker 3: would stop, piss on the guy and start making fun
Speaker 3: of him. And there's less heat in that than the
Speaker 3: guy who drives on, because it's discordant with basic human
Speaker 3: experience and it's not relatable. And that's what MGF has become.
Speaker 3: He's become an implausible caricature of a human being, made
Speaker 3: all the worse by the fact he was playing a
Speaker 3: face a few weeks ago and by the way, like
Speaker 3: Tony Shavanni, like you know, I've been noting you know
Speaker 3: how I don't think that Tony Siavanni is good in
Speaker 3: his role right now, but he's that is most awful
Speaker 3: screaming at MGF because it epitomizes his general insincerity, like
Speaker 3: no one could possibly be this upset at a cartoon character,
Speaker 3: and it shows Shavanni as the cartoon character that he
Speaker 3: is in his own right, the way that he gets
Speaker 3: so upset over this cartoon character that nobody else is
Speaker 3: upset at because he's a cartoon character. So yeah, I
Speaker 3: think MGF needs a lot of refocusing right now. On
Speaker 3: the plus side, I thought that Danny Garcia was very
Speaker 3: good on the MIC. I thought it was the best
Speaker 3: point I've seen him do. And I think it's a
Speaker 3: very good sign that in what's the most prominent role
Speaker 3: of his career thus far, that he's carrying himself as
Speaker 3: a future player from a personality standpoint. So I thought
Speaker 3: that was a positive sign. Not not high on on
Speaker 3: what mgf's doing. All right.
Speaker 1: Then we got the eight man tag match with the
Speaker 1: aforementioned Learning Tree team with Rodert Strong and then Hook
Speaker 1: Priscal Cassidy and O'Reilly hooking Company one in seventeen minutes.
Speaker 1: What's stood out here for you?
Speaker 3: Match was pretty good. I don't know about what they
Speaker 3: did there and the finishes, the build for a title
Speaker 3: match in pay per view, but it's not like Roderick
Speaker 3: Strong versus hook is a priority program for for that
Speaker 3: pay per view or any pay per view. I also
Speaker 3: don't know why Roderk Strong wants the FTW title anyway,
Speaker 3: Like why does he care about that thing?
Speaker 1: There is that?
Speaker 3: There is that?
Speaker 1: All right? Then we had the Mercedes Monet quote partey
Speaker 1: with private party joining because well we don't know why.
Speaker 1: And then Okada got involved in that skit, t would you?
Speaker 3: Then they turned Okada into an under five word guy too, profane, jokester, jerk,
Speaker 3: none of that new Japan ambiguity where you couldn't spell
Speaker 3: it out.
Speaker 1: I want more thoughts on that segment from you.
Speaker 3: I mean it was you know, there's not a lot
Speaker 3: to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how are you feeling about Mercedes?
Speaker 9: Uh?
Speaker 3: Not not not great, but she's at least a he'll know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly all right. Then Schevani stood on the
Speaker 1: ramp and introduced Mariah Main. She flirted with him a
Speaker 1: bit and took off a robe with her belt and
Speaker 1: her neglige, her nightgown whatever. What do you think?
Speaker 3: I mean, not a ton to it, but it was
Speaker 3: fine for what it was. Yeah, I definitely want you
Speaker 3: definitely want more coming out of her title win. But
Speaker 3: I mean I assume that's coming.
Speaker 1: Then grizzled young veterans have Begnette and a promol from that,
Speaker 1: what do you think? And smitter actually with the.
Speaker 3: Box that's good, little good in the mic like they
Speaker 3: almost always are.
Speaker 1: All right, And then video package on Tequeshtau in New Japan,
Speaker 1: uh in the g One tournament and then they announced
Speaker 1: he'd beyond rampage fighting Morto's commander and Leo Rush. What
Speaker 1: do you think, Todd, I mean, it's just high using
Speaker 1: the g One.
Speaker 3: I don't care as much about that stuffs as you do,
Speaker 3: but you know it seems worth mentioning.
Speaker 1: You don't care about highlighting the g One or the
Speaker 1: fact that, you.
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, highlighting other things that are going on. Yeah,
Speaker 3: talking for people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right? Then uh Rick Sha and Kyle Fletcher
Speaker 1: rickchet one in twelve minutes, what do you think of
Speaker 1: the presentation of Ricochet and the flow of this match
Speaker 1: and the choice of Fletcher as an opponent.
Speaker 3: I thought that he you know, I mean, it wasn't
Speaker 3: package that much. They just sort of came out and
Speaker 3: had the match. The match itself was pretty good, you know,
Speaker 3: not as much of a statement as you'd hope for,
Speaker 3: but you know, there's there's still time for that. I
Speaker 3: found it interesting he's not using a flying move as
Speaker 3: a finisher. Seems a clear sign that he's focused on
Speaker 3: body preservation as he approached his late thirties. Angle afterwards,
Speaker 3: I thought was good. You know, we got a little
Speaker 3: tease of the eventual Ospring match as well. Hopefully there
Speaker 3: aren't fans watching that who expected a three way and
Speaker 3: end up disappointed.
Speaker 1: Oh right, yeah, anything else from Dynamite, I'm going to skip.
Speaker 1: Pat that you have no time that you want to
Speaker 1: bring up.
Speaker 3: Nope.
Speaker 1: Anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or AW Dynamite
Speaker 1: in particular, send us an email if you've got thoughts
Speaker 1: on the show or a topic you want us to
Speaker 1: address or a question for us. Wade Keller Podcast at
Speaker 1: pwtorch dot com. Wadkeller Podcast at petwtorch dot com. If
Speaker 1: there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that you
Speaker 1: want us to address on our main podcast during our
Speaker 1: mailbank segments. That same email applies Wade Keller podcast at
Speaker 1: pwtorch dot com. We invite that interaction. Let us know
Speaker 1: what you think of what we're saying, and let us
Speaker 1: know what you want us to talk about and ask
Speaker 1: us specific questions. Wade Keller podcast at PW torch dot com.
Speaker 10: Come well.
Speaker 1: By the way, before to the McMahon phitsic Mann series
Speaker 1: on Netflix, the release state has been announced. What do
Speaker 1: you anticipate from this and anything stand out in terms
Speaker 1: of what we do know about at this point.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it'll end up being very interesting
Speaker 3: because Vince is a very interesting figure and they you know,
Speaker 3: they talk to a lot of people about a lot
Speaker 3: of different things over the course of his life that
Speaker 3: you know, not necessarily been covered with his perspective on things.
Speaker 3: So I think there's gonna be a lot of interesting
Speaker 3: stuff in there. I think, you know, morally, it could
Speaker 3: end up being a bit of a quagmire trying to
Speaker 3: cover it, because I mean, they did the thing before,
Speaker 3: you know, before things really sort of broke down with
Speaker 3: him and the I mean, I don't think that their
Speaker 3: intention was not to do a fawning documentary, but it
Speaker 3: was with him. I mean, you know, he's going to
Speaker 3: be through his lens, and you know it was you know,
Speaker 3: even if their intention was to be you know, sort
Speaker 3: of you know, fair minded, this was a thing that
Speaker 3: I think was gonna end up being more charitable to
Speaker 3: Vince than he probably merited before the allegations. So you've
Speaker 3: already recorded this thing and you know it's probably nicer
Speaker 3: to Vince than than it deserves. And then you've got
Speaker 3: to try to you know, tackle this, you know, this uh,
Speaker 3: this situation that you know that that is just a
Speaker 3: minefield and you've already got this whole thing covered, and
Speaker 3: I don't know how you do that. I frankly was
Speaker 3: I frankly was expecting the thing to be shelved all together,
Speaker 3: even with all the work that they put into it.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean I think I think, uh, I
Speaker 3: think the odds are you know, not slight that that
Speaker 3: you that they come out of this thing with people
Speaker 3: sort of like not thinking very highly of the people
Speaker 3: producing it. But you know, we'll see what they can do.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's a you know, it's a it's a
Speaker 3: total minefield. And you know, I don't think they're going
Speaker 3: to get very close at all to this most latest situation.
Speaker 3: And you know, I, yeah, I wouldn't like to be
Speaker 3: a producer on that thing, because yeah, I think there's
Speaker 3: going to be a lot of criticism coming their way
Speaker 3: when the thing's released. Hopefully not I mean, because like
Speaker 3: I said, there's there's plenty of room for some some
Speaker 3: interesting stuff there. But yeah, tough, tough deal.
Speaker 1: For those who haven't seen it. The graphic it's called
Speaker 1: the Netflix documentary series Mister McMahon, premiering in September twenty fifth,
Speaker 1: if I didn't mention that, and it shows McMahon, an
Speaker 1: image of McMahon with strings and then controlling with the strings,
Speaker 1: the image of a smaller McMahon in the ring, and
Speaker 1: the two words they use only to Todd mastermind Madman,
Speaker 1: and it says from executi producer Bill Simmons and Chris Smith,
Speaker 1: executive producer of The Tiger King, the pitch is mis
Speaker 1: mcmannon documentary series chronicling the rise and fall of w's
Speaker 1: controversial founder is coming to Netflix since the number twenty fifth,
Speaker 1: including interviews with McMahon prior to his resignation, his family
Speaker 1: in some of the most iconic names in wrestling history,
Speaker 1: as well as the journalists wh uncovered the McMahon allegations.
Speaker 1: McMahon's allegations, do you does any of that stand out
Speaker 1: to you as good a matter telling now that I've
Speaker 1: read that out loud to everybody. And then also, how
Speaker 1: do you feel about Bill Simmons and his history of
Speaker 1: covering wrestling and the tone he's taken and the respect
Speaker 1: do you have for him or don't when it comes
Speaker 1: to pro wrestling and his lens if he had a
Speaker 1: big influence on how this is portrayed and framed.
Speaker 3: Okay, a lot to unpack there, a lot of questions,
Speaker 3: but big done there. So as far as the title, first,
Speaker 3: I actually think the title is a is a very
Speaker 3: smart title. You know, like at first glance, it's like, oh, whatever,
Speaker 3: you know mister like you said, you just said, mister LeAnn.
Speaker 3: That'shy they call him on television. But and you know,
Speaker 3: maybe maybe that is there there they intended, but I
Speaker 3: don't think so, Like like when you like, at first like, okay,
Speaker 3: that's his TV character name was mister Alan. They called
Speaker 3: him that. But if you back up and you just
Speaker 3: think of the term mister McMahon. It's it's a distant term.
Speaker 3: It's kind of an off putting term, like mister McMahon.
Speaker 3: It's a little it's a little creepy at a distance,
Speaker 3: like that's he is, mister McMahon, Like he's not he's
Speaker 3: not Vince, he's not you know, like someone, he's this
Speaker 3: person that's framed a certain way, and like that that
Speaker 3: to me, like there's there's something you know, like if
Speaker 3: you if you call a bio you know, biped now
Speaker 3: used term a docucid, and pretty much anyone if you
Speaker 3: just call them mister whatever, it would be a little
Speaker 3: off putting, you know, mister Trump, mister Disney, mister Biden,
Speaker 3: you know, mister.
Speaker 1: Mister Stern, if you're doing an NBA commissioner documentary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean any and obviously mister Rogers is you know,
Speaker 3: is more friendly. But in pretty much any other context,
Speaker 3: you know, like the idea of something just calling someone
Speaker 3: mister something like makes it seem a little unusual. And
Speaker 3: I think, you know, for the arresting Evan, it's nothing,
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, mister man whatever. But I think for
Speaker 3: the person that is not that familiar with him, I
Speaker 3: didn't follow wrestling, which I think they want to also
Speaker 3: appeal to that title I think is interesting. Maybe they
Speaker 3: didn't intend it that way. That that that that that
Speaker 3: struck me when I saw the name for it. As
Speaker 3: far as the two things that you highlighted there, that's
Speaker 3: interesting to me in a different way in the sense that,
Speaker 3: like you know, I talked to earlier, sort of the
Speaker 3: the concern about it coming across as uh to uh
Speaker 3: to fawning, the what are the two names again, rather
Speaker 3: than pulling them up here the.
Speaker 1: To the oh, the mastermind mad Man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so obviously master is a positive term. I would
Speaker 3: argue mad man is is also a positive term. Like
Speaker 3: It's like, I don't think of mad Man as like
Speaker 3: being pejorative. I think of mad Man as being sort
Speaker 3: of fun and exciting, So, you know, like, at least
Speaker 3: to me, that's the sort of the one I think
Speaker 3: of mad Man. I think of of a Bruiser Brodie,
Speaker 3: you know, or or or the chich or like a
Speaker 3: wrestling character. I think they're you know, their their character.
Speaker 3: There are terms that have a more judgmental tone than
Speaker 3: mad man, and so using up mastermind and mad man,
Speaker 3: I feel kind of has like a positive slan on
Speaker 3: it already there as far as you know, uh, Bill
Speaker 3: Simmons producing it. I mean when Bill Simmons talks about
Speaker 3: he was a longtime wrestling fan and then he was
Speaker 3: not one of these people that you know that that
Speaker 3: didn't follow wrestling very closely for a while and then
Speaker 3: sort of drops in on it all the things. He's
Speaker 3: been paying attention to it more and years, and then
Speaker 3: he got into bed with be and started producing stuff
Speaker 3: with them while Vince was still in charge and the
Speaker 3: product was still bad, and he would put over the
Speaker 3: product as you know, as having improved and being good
Speaker 3: before it actually got there. I think because of the
Speaker 3: relationship with them, I think I'm someone is the you know,
Speaker 3: like sort of the category of people that like know
Speaker 3: a lot of things about wrestling but don't understand wrestling
Speaker 3: that well, which is a pretty broad category. There are
Speaker 3: a lot of people in that category. And so yeah,
Speaker 3: with that said, well, I don't think that highly of
Speaker 3: him in terms of his opinions on wrestling. When he's
Speaker 3: come he's produced a number of documentaries and he's produced
Speaker 3: a lot of you know, great documentaries. Really, I mean,
Speaker 3: that's one of you could argue that's like one of
Speaker 3: the things that's the most successful. It's producing a lot
Speaker 3: of great documentaries, and he's like, he's been involved in
Speaker 3: some very good wrestling documentaries. So you know, that's a
Speaker 3: definite positive for him and would give you more hope
Speaker 3: in terms of a project like that. You know that
Speaker 3: that history.
Speaker 6: Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
Speaker 6: relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
Speaker 6: your passion? Do you want to be topped off the
Speaker 6: ledge after a segment that has you wondering what the
Speaker 6: heck are they thinking? Do you want to join a
Speaker 6: discussion on what AW is doing right and what they
Speaker 6: could do to improve? Then join me Joel and me
Speaker 6: Greg for the All of THEE Conversation Club every Friday
Speaker 6: on the pw torch Live Cast feed. Search pw torch
Speaker 6: in your podcast app and subscribe to pw torch Daily
Speaker 6: Cast or stream our shows directly from pw torch dot com.
Speaker 6: Find full details on the PW Torchdailycast lineup at pw
Speaker 6: torchdailycast dot com.
Speaker 1: Very good, I will thread you for a rundown of
Speaker 1: NXT and then we'll preview No Mercy.
Speaker 3: Sure, so NXT started with with Fallon Henley and j C.
Speaker 3: Jane Uh beating lash Legend and Jaka Jackson thanks to
Speaker 3: help from from Jasmine Nicks at ringside, and they gave
Speaker 3: them time but it was not good. They did another
Speaker 3: of those backstage segments where they pack one thing onto another.
Speaker 3: So first a Chantay, the Adonis and Eddie Thorpe had
Speaker 3: a conversation where Thorpe was talking to some women and
Speaker 3: he told Chantey they were just friends and Ashante was
Speaker 3: looking to get with them and not really thinking about
Speaker 3: women as being potential friends. So then as that sort
Speaker 3: of wraps up, you see Brooks Jensen walk across the
Speaker 3: back of the screen. He attacks a no Fay to
Speaker 3: set up his match with with with Blade. Uh Uh. Later,
Speaker 3: Karmen Petrovitch beat is He Dame another week match. Is
Speaker 3: He Dame is a little distinct from some of the
Speaker 3: other women because of her height, but she's not coming
Speaker 3: along very well in the ring. And you know, they've
Speaker 3: had a lot of women there that have that you've
Speaker 3: seen a lot of improvement in over the years, and uh,
Speaker 3: she she's not one of them, unfortunately, So uh that's that.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: Jada Parker did a sit down interview, and this Jada
Speaker 3: Parker interesting storyline development. So this Jada Parker is actually
Speaker 3: a different person than the earlier Jada Parker, but she's
Speaker 3: played by the same actress, So you just, you know,
Speaker 3: you gotta pretend that person wasn't there. New person has
Speaker 3: walked in here. So the original Data Parker was from
Speaker 3: the streets, and she did promos and dilapidated buildings and
Speaker 3: she would scowl, menacing all the time, menacingly all the time,
Speaker 3: and speak in you know, in in slang. And the
Speaker 3: new Jada Parker won a gauntlet match, and now she
Speaker 3: smiles all the time and talks about a college soccer
Speaker 3: background and how she was getting scholarship offers back when
Speaker 3: she was a young kid. Despite that weirdness. Uh, she was.
Speaker 3: The good news is I thought she was. She seemed
Speaker 3: very natural in the new role, just like she seemed
Speaker 3: very natural in the old role. I thought she was
Speaker 3: able to portray a menace when it came to, you know,
Speaker 3: to the heel role. And I thought she came across
Speaker 3: as likable and and and a good talker in the
Speaker 3: in the babyface role as well. So, uh, it was
Speaker 3: it was an encouraging, encouraging sign. She she's really one
Speaker 3: of the most talented performers they have in developmental and
Speaker 3: you know, came out of nowhere and she's been doing
Speaker 3: very well for herself. Anyway, Uh, Roxane Press came in
Speaker 3: and started badmouthing her, so she slapped Roxanne and uh
Speaker 3: Parker then had words with somebody off screen and uh
Speaker 3: perhaps you know spec Oh, okay, So then because people
Speaker 3: were speculating it as Juliet, but that's that's that's settled.
Speaker 3: It is it is not. It is not Julia, it
Speaker 3: was you. And uh, well maybe I was thinking maybe
Speaker 3: Julia was going to show up to it to help
Speaker 3: Roxanne win it no mercy, but maybe you will show
Speaker 3: up to to uh to help help Roxanne when.
Speaker 1: At I'm signed a n D A okay.
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's that's possibility at uh at no mercy
Speaker 3: And uh, let's see here the the D'Angelo family beat
Speaker 3: the now quartercrash Crew when Luca Crusofino pinned Miles Born.
Speaker 3: It was fine. This is a backdrop for another story
Speaker 3: which I found amusing. So as the di'angelo family was
Speaker 3: warming up backstage, two older guys from the family told
Speaker 3: Tony they needed to tell him something, and he blew
Speaker 3: them off, and the men are like, you know, we
Speaker 3: really need to tell you something. Tony blew them off again.
Speaker 3: So then he goes to ringside for the match. They
Speaker 3: come out again to talk to him, and this time
Speaker 3: he immediately leaves, and so he leaves. He never comes
Speaker 3: back for this thing. Then later on the show, he
Speaker 3: shows up the D'Angelo family restaurant and first thing he
Speaker 3: asks is why I was called here? You told me
Speaker 3: this was urgent. So in summary, if you tell Tony
Speaker 3: you really need to talk to him, he may refuse
Speaker 3: to even let you finish your sentence. But if you
Speaker 3: tell him it's urgent, he'll drop everything he's doing and
Speaker 3: drive to another location without even asking you to finish
Speaker 3: the sentence to tell you what in fact it is.
Speaker 3: But he knows this isn't really important, but it's urgent.
Speaker 3: So I'm going to drive somewhere else and you can
Speaker 3: tell me once I get there what's happening here? Perplexing
Speaker 3: individual as Tony Dean. So anyway, he was told Obafemi
Speaker 3: was at the restaurant and he's sitting there in a
Speaker 3: suit mining his own business drinking the glass of wine.
Speaker 3: Why this was an emergency, I'm not sure. Maybe they're
Speaker 3: really racist, you know, freaking out at a nicely adress
Speaker 3: dude sitting at a table in the restaurant. There weren't
Speaker 3: even other customers at the surrounding tables, Like, I don't
Speaker 3: know what their problem was with this guy, but you know,
Speaker 3: he rushes there and he sits down. They have a
Speaker 3: few polite words about their match on Sunday, and family left.
Speaker 3: So Tony, I mean, he probably should have just followed
Speaker 3: his first instinct and just ignored those dudes because they,
Speaker 3: you know, they were just I mean, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Those guys are sketchy. I you know, I don't like
Speaker 3: calling people bigots, but I think they're biggots. Pete Don
Speaker 3: did an interview talking about wrestling Trick Williams again Wesley
Speaker 3: and Zachary Wentz that had an in ring segment another
Speaker 3: Vincent Man special where you just did this personal breakup
Speaker 3: angle for a heated feud, and so they stood in
Speaker 3: the ring together fifteen minutes and took turns talking. Wentz
Speaker 3: was upset about the portrayal, Lee was more just blowing
Speaker 3: them off as a cocky heel and a big part
Speaker 3: of this for Lee was burying TNA and the portrayal
Speaker 3: of TNA I found interesting because because I figure he wins,
Speaker 3: but it sure doesn't make TNA look very good if
Speaker 3: he wins. After he basically you know, called TNA second
Speaker 3: rate and and uh and you know, made it sound
Speaker 3: like it's, you know, something bad for Zachary wants to
Speaker 3: go back to TNA. So that was an an interesting
Speaker 3: an interesting choice. Colnie Jordan beat Rosemary, who debut as
Speaker 3: a mystery opponent. It was cool to see Rosemary get
Speaker 3: a shot on w television because I mean, she does
Speaker 3: a better job than anyone with her type of gimmick,
Speaker 3: and I think she's you know, done a on balance,
Speaker 3: a very good job in in TNA over the years.
Speaker 3: The idea was Jordan was taking out one spooky opponent
Speaker 3: before taking on another, and so then afterwards, after she
Speaker 3: beat Rosemary, they played audio of wee Y Chew laughing
Speaker 3: and Jordan like, you know, like Seth rollins and and
Speaker 3: Bray White had to act just terrified, as if anyone
Speaker 3: could possibly be scared of Wendy Chew with her pajamas
Speaker 3: and pillow laughing but she, you know, was freaked out.
Speaker 3: Colnie Jordan was or a mensa go into an argument
Speaker 3: buying Peman Junior. So they're gonna feud. Chase you was
Speaker 3: celebrating their title win when Duke Hudson and uh Riley
Speaker 3: Osborne were sad about having lost, and Axiom Nathan Fraser
Speaker 3: showed up and did a very scripted promo where they
Speaker 3: finished each other's sentences. I the thing that's that's so funny,
Speaker 3: but about about uh And I guess it's sort of
Speaker 3: a positive in a sense because like, there are all
Speaker 3: these things that that used to happen all the time
Speaker 3: on the main roster with Vincent Land there, and so
Speaker 3: many of them have gone away, not all of them,
Speaker 3: you know, particularly the finishes, but so many of them
Speaker 3: have gone away. And I watched NXT and and ryding like,
Speaker 3: oh yeah, they don't do that on the main roster anymore.
Speaker 3: Isn't it great? They don't do that anymore in the
Speaker 3: main roster. I don't need to really need to see
Speaker 3: on NXT either, But it's you know, it's nice that
Speaker 3: it's it's less common on the main roster. Brooks Jensen
Speaker 3: beat Blade in a quick match. It was fine, but
Speaker 3: Jensen is better as a face and a heel hank
Speaker 3: a tank on an argument with OTM, so they're gonna wrestle.
Speaker 3: Joe Coffee beat Javan Evans with the help of other
Speaker 3: members of GALLAS, so it looks like Evans will be
Speaker 3: enlisting help and UH and coming back after them. Pretty
Speaker 3: good match, best match on the show. And the final
Speaker 3: segment was a Joe Hendry concert and he as He's
Speaker 3: wanted to do sang a derogatory song about Ethan Page,
Speaker 3: basically making fun of Ethan Page's wacky past gimmicks and
Speaker 3: eclectic interests. I thought it made Page more likable, actually,
Speaker 3: but who knows how the average person is going to
Speaker 3: take that. And then Page came out he was unhappy and.
Speaker 10: Uh.
Speaker 3: Then Ava came out and she said that because Paige
Speaker 3: was disrespectful to w a B officials, Trick Williams would
Speaker 3: be the special guest referee for the uh Page versus
Speaker 3: Hendry match. And then Henry hit Page with his choke
Speaker 3: slam and Trick counted the pen So same game they
Speaker 3: were doing there with Ora Mensa. And then Peter Dunn
Speaker 3: also made some threatening remarks sort of away from the
Speaker 3: ring at the close of the show. So yeah, that
Speaker 3: was n XT this week. A lot going on as
Speaker 3: uh as usual.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So how does a Norm Mercy look?
Speaker 3: I would say not that great. Hopefully I am wrong
Speaker 3: about that, you know, in terms of looking at at
Speaker 3: match quality, because you know, the main event is Ethan
Speaker 3: Page and Joe Henry and I just don't think they're
Speaker 3: gonna have your usual main event quality match. Hopefully I'm
Speaker 3: wrong about that. But neither of those guys are are
Speaker 3: you know, great wrestlers. I think Ethan Page is a
Speaker 3: good wrestler. He can have a strong match with a good,
Speaker 3: good opponent, but Joe Henry's is not particularly opponent. You know,
Speaker 3: Roxham president Teta park will be probably be pretty good,
Speaker 3: but they're both you know, well they're not both pretty inexperienced.
Speaker 3: With Jada Parker is pretty inexperienced, even though she's good,
Speaker 3: So I wouldn't count on her to have like a
Speaker 3: you know, a great match. Chase you and Frasier Axiom
Speaker 3: should be a strong match over me and an Tony
Speaker 3: DeAngelo should should be good. Colonie Jordan Wendy to probably
Speaker 3: won't be very good, and Lee and Zachary went so
Speaker 3: probably be the best mess match in the show. So
Speaker 3: it doesn't it doesn't feel like a a super show
Speaker 3: on paper, and it doesn't feel like a uh, you know,
Speaker 3: terribly anticipated match either. It's also five matches out of
Speaker 3: sixer titles on the line, and that's not even all
Speaker 3: the titles, which is pretty pretty stupid for a you know,
Speaker 3: one week, you know, one show a week developmental to
Speaker 3: have that many titles. But yeah, also go through the
Speaker 3: matches that Ethan papers Joe Henry. I could see that
Speaker 3: one going either way. They seem very interested in Henry,
Speaker 3: but he is still a teenage guy for now, and
Speaker 3: Trick Linkers is a Challenger and it would makes more
Speaker 3: sense for him the Challenge Page than Henry if he's
Speaker 3: getting the title back. So I think Page retains, but
Speaker 3: who knows. As I mentioned with ROX and President Data
Speaker 3: Parker for the woman's title, they teased the mister person
Speaker 3: getting involved and they love to book an excuse for
Speaker 3: the finish, so that person costing Jada would make sense,
Speaker 3: whether it's Julia or Stephanie Vaker or or Wade Keller,
Speaker 3: Chase You and Nathan Fraser and Axiom, they've been teasing
Speaker 3: a Fraser Axiom break up for a long time, and
Speaker 3: them losing here and then splitting makes the most sense.
Speaker 3: Femi and DiAngelo. Femi's delivered every time in the big match,
Speaker 3: and I don't expect this to be an exception. I'd
Speaker 3: be very surprised if if Emi doesn't retain, though, and
Speaker 3: then Colonie Jordan wenty Chu Jordan will retain. I think
Speaker 3: they can have a good match if they don't get
Speaker 3: bogged down in stupidity, but I think they're gonna get
Speaker 3: bogged down in stupidity. And then Lee and Wentz definitely
Speaker 3: the favorite to be match of the night is mentioned.
Speaker 3: Lee just turned and he's the NXT guy and he
Speaker 3: has the most upside, so I think he wins, although
Speaker 3: the way that Lee buried TNA and his burial of
Speaker 3: once gives me pause. And uh yeah, that's the only
Speaker 3: non title match of the bunch, all.
Speaker 1: Right, give yourself a reason to look forward to going
Speaker 1: into the mailbox each week with a PW Torch newsletter
Speaker 1: paper copy. Subscription details at PW torch dot com Slash
Speaker 1: paper Copy. It's twelve pages every week, packed with my
Speaker 1: TV reports along with exclusive features such as my cover
Speaker 1: story on the top story of the week, our pay
Speaker 1: per view roundtable reviews from the Torch staff, Exclusive feature
Speaker 1: length columns from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan
Speaker 1: Coonahan and Zach Hadorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news,
Speaker 1: and more. PW torch dot com slash paper Copy. Take
Speaker 1: a break from screen time and settle in every week
Speaker 1: with the Megando suppressling news in analysis with a Pro
Speaker 1: Wrestling Torch newsletter paper copy edition in the year twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two. You can get a full year of home
Speaker 1: delivery for just ninety nine dollars, or try us for
Speaker 1: an eight week trial subscription. PW torch dot Com slash
Speaker 1: paper Copy. Let's just smacked out from last Friday as
Speaker 1: they head towards Bash in Berlin. They were in Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. At Capitol One Arena, Great Arena, great town, Todd.
Speaker 3: I hear, yes, lovely place. I didn't go to the show.
Speaker 1: Though, Yeah, well, I mean, who would who would brave it?
Speaker 3: So what does that mean, be.
Speaker 1: Brave enough to go to DC? I hear all these
Speaker 1: terrible things. No that's not true, right, whatever, No, I'm kidding,
Speaker 1: all right. So yeah, so we're opened with the Grayson
Speaker 1: Waller Effect and Kevin Owens as their guest.
Speaker 3: What do you think, Yeah, it is kind of it
Speaker 3: is kind of odd when you're when you're from d C,
Speaker 3: that like d C has sort of become like this
Speaker 3: pejorative thing in like political circles, and you know, politicians
Speaker 3: will always talk about how terrible d C is and
Speaker 3: I don't have this DC mentality and I want to
Speaker 3: be these d C people, and you know, it doesn't
Speaker 3: really matter in the context, Like it's still like a
Speaker 3: relatively small metro area of relch of other people, but
Speaker 3: no one ever stands up for it. Isn't like you know,
Speaker 3: when like Trump allegedly said bad things about Milwaukee and
Speaker 3: like everyone piled on, like you can just trash d
Speaker 3: C left and right, and uh and nobody will be
Speaker 3: bothered by it. So uh, it's too It's it's too bad.
Speaker 3: And did you ask about the first segment or did
Speaker 3: we did? Okay, Yeah, I thought it was an effective segment.
Speaker 3: You know, you had the further teasing of issues between
Speaker 3: Wallnert theory as well as Cody and Owen's one of
Speaker 3: the things that that the Triple h has done well
Speaker 3: to maintain interest during his time running things is he's
Speaker 3: always doing these weeks week stories, teasing turns, and in
Speaker 3: the long term that may and issues as far as
Speaker 3: turning people too often and just watering down the meaning
Speaker 3: of the turns and feeling too redundant. But for the
Speaker 3: time being, one of the hooks for fans on every
Speaker 3: show is there's you know, constant chapters and all these
Speaker 3: different turns that are going on, and it makes it,
Speaker 3: you know, like it's wrestling is frequently described as a
Speaker 3: a soap opera for men, and this is, you know,
Speaker 3: a sort of a classic example for it where it's just,
Speaker 3: you know, week to week, you got these you know,
Speaker 3: little drama things and you know things are you know,
Speaker 3: moving one one direction or another with all these different characters,
Speaker 3: and it, you know, it makes sense to flag Owen's
Speaker 3: history of turning on people and his his defense of
Speaker 3: himself was amusing.
Speaker 1: I was amused when he asked if he could go
Speaker 1: punch Grason Waller and you know, you expect all this
Speaker 1: to be like no, no, now, you know, we have
Speaker 1: to have decorum, and he goes, just make it quick.
Speaker 3: Wait wait, wait, you were expecting that. I was definitely
Speaker 3: expecting him to sign off on that.
Speaker 1: Well, oh, you would expect an authority figure to frown
Speaker 1: on such a thing, as opposed to encourage it unless
Speaker 1: they are.
Speaker 3: The way the way he set it up here, it
Speaker 3: certainly seemed like he was gonna sign he was going
Speaker 3: to sign off on it.
Speaker 1: Well, it was great, great delivery from all this.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, it's just there's a natural setup.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, so you don't have to agree with me.
Speaker 1: I thought all this His timing was really good here
Speaker 1: in the way that he delivered the line, and it
Speaker 1: added a little extra punch to uh, to the punch,
Speaker 1: so to speak. All right, then Ellie Knight Santos Escobar
Speaker 1: Night Ones in nine minutes, retaining title.
Speaker 3: What then? I thought it worked for what it was.
Speaker 3: They did a good job making you think that maybe
Speaker 3: Santos will win despite it seeming unlikely when the match started.
Speaker 1: All right then, Uh. The promo for the barbershop with Carmelo,
Speaker 1: Hayes Andreday barged In had some words with him. Hayes
Speaker 1: complained that the doors weren't locked when he was talking.
Speaker 1: Any thoughts on that.
Speaker 3: We're getting more on Todi Carmelo matches.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right? Backstage segment with Berto and Angel and
Speaker 1: Electra and Escobar interacting with them, and then we had
Speaker 1: a baron Corban Apollo Cruz, the Hottest act and pro wrestling.
Speaker 1: Those two man can't wait to see what they do,
Speaker 1: are going to do every week getting h interjecting themselves,
Speaker 1: setting up something for later.
Speaker 3: Any any thoughts on that they need a cheesy tag
Speaker 3: team name like you know or something like that the Express, Yeah,
Speaker 3: just you know, chees a lookout of dissension and you
Speaker 3: know that we're continuing to sue.
Speaker 1: With ac AC dash BC takeoff on a c DC.
Speaker 4: I like that.
Speaker 3: You explain it for me. Yeah, thanks, Wayne, I wasn't
Speaker 3: sure what was happening there.
Speaker 4: I like it.
Speaker 3: I like it. I would have liked it better if
Speaker 3: you didn't have the explanation at the end, but.
Speaker 1: It wasn't for I knew I I figured you'd get it.
Speaker 1: I was highly confident, but our few fixed listeners based
Speaker 1: on the mail bank, who probably could use a little
Speaker 1: help sometimes.
Speaker 3: Wait, wait, come on, now, you tell me I mean
Speaker 3: that that is not true. That is not true?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 3: Then you're a feisty mood today that that that thing
Speaker 3: you did earlier and now this Geez.
Speaker 1: Blair Blair Davenport Alpa firelid on against Jay Cargo beyond
Speaker 1: Blair and nail me, nail.
Speaker 3: Me in fact, in fact, Wade, I'm gonna I'm gonna
Speaker 3: do you one better. That is their new nickname here
Speaker 3: on the Fix, A C B C. That's what they're
Speaker 3: getting called from here.
Speaker 1: Good good. So yeah, what do you what do you
Speaker 1: think it is?
Speaker 3: The match? I thought it was fun. Yeah, I thought
Speaker 3: they worked well together, you know, more showcase for the
Speaker 3: baby Faces, but yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay. Then the Bloodline made their ring entrance and
Speaker 1: he presented the take team title from Jacob Too to
Speaker 1: uh Tongala. What do you think of the segment?
Speaker 3: I thought it was fine. There was a better week
Speaker 3: for Solo as far as fitting into his role than
Speaker 3: some of the other ones.
Speaker 1: And and on one attense scale like eight, nine to
Speaker 1: ten being very successful, seven being ah get by or
Speaker 1: other numbers that you can associate proper terms with, where
Speaker 1: is he with for you right now?
Speaker 8: Four?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think that's that's probably hde Land Like, okay.
Speaker 3: Sounds like you've more I feel like, even more charitable
Speaker 3: to him than that.
Speaker 1: But really I feel like I've been hard on him,
Speaker 1: like I I'll criticize and then I'll and I'll just
Speaker 1: be like it's it's it's enough to get by. He's okay,
Speaker 1: but I think the tone sinks. Okay, from a five
Speaker 1: a little under a five. Okay, I'll be I'll be
Speaker 1: bold here Todd four point five. Yeah, I know you
Speaker 1: like that?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 1: Byron Sexton interviewed. Uh, Ellen Night backstage, Any thoughts that
Speaker 1: no was a lite to it?
Speaker 10: Then?
Speaker 1: Uh, Tongualow and Tomatonga if anything that's profits and uh,
Speaker 1: the Bloodline won this one in about ten minutes. Any
Speaker 1: thoughts on that?
Speaker 3: Okay, match week finish and then you know a little
Speaker 3: bit of action afterwards to make the Bloodline seem uh
Speaker 3: seem menacing?
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right? Then Uh they cut to a smiling
Speaker 1: Cody backstage, which has been a topic of conversation in
Speaker 1: a couple of places. What was that smile all about?
Speaker 1: Looked like he was, you know, practicing for a tooth
Speaker 1: based commercial or something. Kevin Owens walked walked up to
Speaker 1: him and addressed that people think he's going to turn
Speaker 1: on him, but he mounked and Cody with very reassuring
Speaker 1: words for kog. All I can do is take you
Speaker 1: at your word and prepare for what happens next. If
Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Owens, I wouldn't consider that a endorsement of
Speaker 1: his vow.
Speaker 3: No, No, not at all.
Speaker 1: No, not at all. So are they are they leaning
Speaker 1: so hard into it that it makes you think it's
Speaker 1: less likely or more likely, or it's a toss up,
Speaker 1: who knows. It's just kind of a fun way to
Speaker 1: take the journey to whether Ko turns on Cody or not.
Speaker 3: I still think that they're going to do a turn,
Speaker 3: and I think that the fact that there, I think
Speaker 3: that they're leaning into it now because it isn't gonna
Speaker 3: the turn isn't gonna happen in the way that they're
Speaker 3: laying it out now. Like the idea here is like
Speaker 3: Owens can't be trusted, like he's had to get you
Speaker 3: know that that he might, you know, just turn on
Speaker 3: Cody for you know, for no reason, because you can't
Speaker 3: trust the guy. And I think the story is more
Speaker 3: gonna be like he's sort of put upon and frustrated
Speaker 3: and feels like he sort of boxed into a corner,
Speaker 3: as opposed to like you just couldn't trust him from
Speaker 3: the beginning. With that said, even though I still think
Speaker 3: that's the direction, does them leaning this hard into it
Speaker 3: make it seem more likely or less likely that I'm
Speaker 3: right in my initial reaction that eventually Owens is going
Speaker 3: to be a heel out of this less likely? I mean,
Speaker 3: I think they're they are leaning into it hard enough
Speaker 3: that it does make me wonder whether it's not going
Speaker 3: to go in that direction. But it being pro wrestling,
Speaker 3: I always think, like when you start teasing someone is
Speaker 3: going to turn. They aren't necessarily going to turn, but
Speaker 3: usually somebody turns. So like I'm thinking and like, okay,
Speaker 3: maybe if like Owens isn't turning, this is building to
Speaker 3: like orton turning at the end of this, like with
Speaker 3: you know, like you know, Cody not trusting Ham or
Speaker 3: you know, some sort of other tangle, because it's rare
Speaker 3: in pro wrestling that, you know, someone like they tease
Speaker 3: all this person's gonna turn and then at the end
Speaker 3: they're like nope, I'm just a friend, and then they
Speaker 3: just move on from things. That's that's an you know,
Speaker 3: it's it's not that common of a scenario.
Speaker 10: I'm Chris Maitland and I'm justin mcclellands. We host Wrestling
Speaker 10: Coast to Coast, where we scour the wrestling scene to
Speaker 10: find the best wrestling from the smallest places.
Speaker 9: There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling
Speaker 9: Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and
Speaker 9: women who could be big time stars in a few years.
Speaker 10: There are plenty of podcasts to voters, to w W
Speaker 10: and AW, but what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums
Speaker 10: local wrestling hotspots around the country.
Speaker 9: We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
Speaker 9: gyms of the wrestling world. Plus, you can hear Chris
Speaker 9: complain about.
Speaker 10: Bad referees and justin bemoaning dog pal fins.
Speaker 9: Don't forget my fetal search to see a blue Thunderbomb
Speaker 9: win a match.
Speaker 10: How can I like? The name says we cover the
Speaker 10: hottest independent promotions from around the country. So this just
Speaker 10: as Prestige Action, West Coast, Pro Revolver and Beyond Wrestling.
Speaker 9: Actually, Chris, I think we sick pretty much too wrestling.
Speaker 10: No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Wooster, Oh Right.
Speaker 10: Our show's part of the PW Torch Daily cast lineup
Speaker 10: and typically drops on Thursdays. Search PW Torch in your
Speaker 10: podcast app, as subscribed to the PW Torch Daily Cast,
Speaker 10: or stream our shows directly from PW touch dot com.
Speaker 10: Find full details on the PW Torch Daily Cast lineup
Speaker 10: at pwtrschdailycast dot com.
Speaker 1: All right, then Byron Sex was backstage and said both
Speaker 1: they and street property are being tended to, and then
Speaker 1: be Fab walked out and said they're fine, But Candice
Speaker 1: and Indie ran in and be Fab like, no, they're fine,
Speaker 1: They're just upset. What was that for? Just to convey
Speaker 1: the idea, Hey, they got beat up and we're just
Speaker 1: going to put these two or these three women film
Speaker 1: them reacting to it, or or did it lay the
Speaker 1: groundwork for something else going on here? I thought it
Speaker 1: was a weird segment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was a weird segment too. I mean,
Speaker 3: I you know, going back to turns again, I mean,
Speaker 3: it seems to me perhaps it's it's about you know,
Speaker 3: either the street profits turning on Gargana and Champa, or
Speaker 3: Gargana and Champa turning on the street profits. And given
Speaker 3: Indie and Candae have already turned and haven't really been
Speaker 3: associated with Gargano and Champa since turning them being reassociated
Speaker 3: with Gargano and Champa and their heels, you know, makes
Speaker 3: one wonder in that direction.
Speaker 1: Then Pretty Deadly were decorating the crown for Nia Jackson.
Speaker 1: Tiffany Swritten said it was disgusting what Michen did, and
Speaker 1: jack said, you'll get back at her for touching that crown.
Speaker 1: Any thoughts on on that segment there in the interaction.
Speaker 3: Oh, you didn't even get to the main event here,
Speaker 3: so like, I mean, this isn't going to do any harm,
Speaker 3: But this was one of the dumber segments you ever
Speaker 3: got to see, just in terms of like watching it
Speaker 3: at being ridiculous and that Pretty Deadly Tiffany and Nya
Speaker 3: are loudly talking, and then the premise is Chelsea and
Speaker 3: Piper are having a private conversation not recognizing Naya is there,
Speaker 3: and they're literally right next to each other. I mean,
Speaker 3: they were not four feet away from the original position
Speaker 3: where these people are standing here, like you could see
Speaker 3: the original spot in the original spot in the camera
Speaker 3: as they turned the camera thirty degrees to show Chelsea
Speaker 3: and Piper standing right next to them, Like you can
Speaker 3: see Chelsea and Piper in the screen You can literally
Speaker 3: see the spot where Naya was at the beginning, still
Speaker 3: in the same shot, and then Nia in the middle
Speaker 3: of it, standing next to them as they're having their
Speaker 3: conversation here. It was ridiculous. Again, doesn't matter, but I
Speaker 3: thought it was comically ridiculous how this thing went. And
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's sort of hard to describe, but
Speaker 3: I feel like if you if you watch that and
Speaker 3: it didn't strike you, like, watch it again because you
Speaker 3: just weren't paying very close attention and how ridiculous the
Speaker 3: whole thing was.
Speaker 1: It is the idea of Green and Piper knew they
Speaker 1: were being overheard.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. I think they just didn't
Speaker 3: want to be bothered, like giving enough. I thought they'd
Speaker 3: just be it would be quicker and easier to shoot
Speaker 3: the way that they did, and they were like whatever.
Speaker 3: People will pretend that they weren't that they weren't. You know,
Speaker 3: they weren't as close as they were because it wasn't
Speaker 3: an their interest to do that like they were. You know,
Speaker 3: she seemed shocked and upset when it was there, because
Speaker 3: now she's gonna get beat up by Nia Jacks, which
Speaker 3: she presumably doesn't want to have happened.
Speaker 1: And I bring that up only because it has been
Speaker 1: brought up as as it's the you''re sort of caught between. Well,
Speaker 1: that wouldn't make sense. But then the way it was
Speaker 1: filmed doesn't make any sense either, So we have to
Speaker 1: maybe consider both as options because it was so ridiculous.
Speaker 3: If EE was just lazy shooting, I think they just
Speaker 3: didn't want to, you know, they just wanted to shoot
Speaker 3: it quick and dirty, and rather than sort of walking
Speaker 3: over to another place and worrying abou shooting back and forth,
Speaker 3: they wanted to film the two things back to back.
Speaker 3: And they're like, eh, artistic.
Speaker 1: Liberty, Yeah exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, as we sometimes say less diplomatically, it's pro wrestling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Cody wrote and Kevin Owans against graysomal
Speaker 1: or notes and theory. Cody and Ko went in twelve minutes.
Speaker 1: Yeah what do you think of that? And and then
Speaker 1: just the celebration afterwards.
Speaker 3: Yeah, not much to the match, and you know they're
Speaker 3: not they're not teasing Owens turning all that hard even
Speaker 3: if they're you know, still giving you a little bit
Speaker 3: in that direction.
Speaker 1: Anything else. So what's back down?
Speaker 3: Nope?
Speaker 1: All right, so we'll jump to raw from earlier this week,
Speaker 1: and are you do you think they did about what
Speaker 1: you would expect in terms of acknowledging the death of Sid.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean what would be the argument against that? Oh?
Speaker 1: Well, sometimes there's a video package, sometimes there is and
Speaker 1: sometimes they're a mench at the top of the show.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's later in the show. So yeah, I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it seemed right to me, But I didn't
Speaker 1: know if anything jumped out to you in terms of
Speaker 1: because I just don't. Yeah, I just don't know how
Speaker 1: they view him in their lens of history, in terms
Speaker 1: of what category he falls in, other than you know,
Speaker 1: for sure mentioning him.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think that mattered more under Vince,
Speaker 3: who was more apt to focus on people that he
Speaker 3: had good personal relations with. I think Connor is more
Speaker 3: just like if you, you know, if you were a
Speaker 3: you know, if you're an important person in the in
Speaker 3: the business, we're not so worried about the politics, even
Speaker 3: we'll feature you. And even if it was that wasn't
Speaker 3: the case, Like I think, I think Vince would have
Speaker 3: done that too. I my my sense years back was
Speaker 3: that Sid probably wasn't on very good relations with them
Speaker 3: based on you know, like the various you know issues
Speaker 3: with him leaving the company over the years. But then
Speaker 3: they brought them running back for that episode of Raw
Speaker 3: and like, you know whatever, it was twenty twelve or
Speaker 3: so twenty ten, and I was like, oh, okay, so
Speaker 3: they must be on you know, at least decent terms,
Speaker 3: because you know, they you know, there are other people
Speaker 3: where you know, they just never bring them back, and
Speaker 3: like those are the people I assume have you know,
Speaker 3: some sort of heat.
Speaker 1: M all right, so raupin with they segment the Judgment
Speaker 1: Day and uh will turn out to be their opponents
Speaker 1: in the LWO talk about the segment preceding the match,
Speaker 1: and then the match that Judgment Day won that went
Speaker 1: full fifteen minutes.
Speaker 3: I thought that the promo segment was weak. You know,
Speaker 3: you have the heels saying welcome to the show like
Speaker 3: they're the weekly greaders, and then they throw to the
Speaker 3: video package like they're the announcers, and then they just
Speaker 3: drone on forever without really saying anything consequence. So I
Speaker 3: wasn't a fan of that. I thought Judgment Danieloo is
Speaker 3: pretty good match, and uh, you know Live helps Dominic
Speaker 3: beat Ray again to advance their pairing. And then you
Speaker 3: know we got Rihan and Dominic coming out to redominant
Speaker 3: Rhian Damien coming out to UH to get some revenge,
Speaker 3: which you know, I think was appropriate as well. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I want us to get to the physicality is better?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 3: Then?
Speaker 1: Jacob Bridman interviewed Mis backstage. Any thoughts on that?
Speaker 3: Yes, and I wait you you you left out in
Speaker 3: your report the key line of this whole thing, yeah,
Speaker 3: which is that the miss still a sensibly insensibly a babas.
Speaker 3: Did you catch this line? Wade?
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know yet.
Speaker 3: Oh if you don't, If you don't know you caught
Speaker 3: this line, you did not catch this line, miss said?
Speaker 3: He claimed that the Intercontinental title is the title that
Speaker 3: he made prestigious.
Speaker 1: He said, yeah, yeah, I'm miss set.
Speaker 3: This man needs to write the forward for Steve CRN's
Speaker 3: next book.
Speaker 1: Yes, who made the icy title more famous than miss Prestigious?
Speaker 3: I would say most most other holders.
Speaker 1: Being a title that's a bit of a soap could
Speaker 1: could be a long a long answer if you were
Speaker 1: to be specific. So anything else beyond that, no, okay?
Speaker 3: So yeah, then the man that made the Intercontinental title
Speaker 3: prestigious the miss.
Speaker 1: Yes, all right, Umm, I'm pottering that backstage Jagsabord's warming
Speaker 1: up when cople Kingston walked in and they talked about
Speaker 1: how mature they are to talk things out. What do
Speaker 1: you think?
Speaker 3: Nothing to it, you know, just highlighting their stoke hold
Speaker 3: despite the continuing issues.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right then, uh, a pure fusion collective. Shane
Speaker 1: of Baserons always Stark with Sonia took on Kyrie Sane
Speaker 1: and Eel Sky did a little segment with PFC before that,
Speaker 1: and then Kyrine Sky one in eight minutes, which you think.
Speaker 3: It's fine? All right? Uh?
Speaker 1: Is PFC warming up? Are you warming up to the
Speaker 1: to the name?
Speaker 3: I like the name from the beginning, I mean again,
Speaker 3: just in sort of the silliness of it, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't want the abbreviation. I want pure
Speaker 3: Fusion Collective. It's you know, it's it's something, the pure
Speaker 3: fusion collective. What does it even mean for sure for
Speaker 3: us all to consider it to ponder? Yes, I like
Speaker 3: to think of myself as a pure fusion collective myself.
Speaker 1: They could have done the s C S connection, the
Speaker 1: s z S or the ZSS express that's got a
Speaker 1: ring to it. Bs D for their last names BSD
Speaker 1: express sounds kind of like the bfd BFG. Yeah all right,
Speaker 1: uh bo Dallas vignette without the uncle Howdy cost him.
Speaker 3: Rolled all books when you were a kid weighed or
Speaker 3: those getting more popular a little bit later?
Speaker 1: Which books rolled?
Speaker 3: All? No?
Speaker 1: I didn't?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So what do you think of the Bodallas vignette?
Speaker 3: It was fine? You know, it's very much a pretty
Speaker 3: white style parma.
Speaker 1: Yeah. A bond forged in the tears of the innocent
Speaker 1: arrogance is like a beast risen from the sea. Okay,
Speaker 1: then it's just for people who didn't watch, and I
Speaker 1: want to convey some of the tone of it. They
Speaker 1: must cut off the head so the blood of the
Speaker 1: damn washes away the sins of the wicked.
Speaker 10: All right.
Speaker 1: So our two open with Drew McIntyre talking about CM
Speaker 1: punk and uh yeah, and then Punk attacking Drew from
Speaker 1: behind at the end. What'd you think.
Speaker 3: That was a good problem? I don't think it was
Speaker 3: terribly not worthy in the overall, you know, the overall
Speaker 3: arcude story.
Speaker 1: We're about to go to a commercial break. Why listened
Speaker 1: to commercial breaks when you can go vip and experience
Speaker 1: our shows with the ads and plugs removed. Pw torch
Speaker 1: dot com slash go VP. That's pw torch dot com
Speaker 1: slash go VIP for full details, or go to Patreon,
Speaker 1: Patreon dot com slash PW Torch vip ratestart as low
Speaker 1: as four dollars in ninety nine cents to remove the
Speaker 1: ads and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP membership starts at
Speaker 1: nine dollars in ninety nine cents to reach yourself to
Speaker 1: a streamlined, ad and plug free listening experience with a
Speaker 1: VIP or Patreon membership. Is the deconstruction of of of
Speaker 1: Punk's promo through just openly mocking isn't it great to
Speaker 1: be alive and blank? And then I talk about my
Speaker 1: and then he talks about himself and then sitting across
Speaker 1: like it is it like if somebody just like deconstructs
Speaker 1: a kind of a routine that you have as part
Speaker 1: of your job or I don't know, or your personality
Speaker 1: that sort of frames you as unoriginal and following a
Speaker 1: certain pattern, which is what Drew is getting at there?
Speaker 1: Is it is it too?
Speaker 3: Does it?
Speaker 1: Does it hurt Punk going forward? Or do you think
Speaker 1: it was sort of self evidence and harmless.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's been doing that sort of stuff all year,
Speaker 3: and I think it has had a negative effect on
Speaker 3: on uh on Punk, although I think, you know, the
Speaker 3: Punk not wrestling that much and you know, ruining all
Speaker 3: those matches probably has had more of it. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean it's you know, it's a general consideration. I
Speaker 3: just feel like, you know, that's sort of baked in
Speaker 3: at this point, honestly. I mean, it's you know, it's
Speaker 3: not it's not anything new.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right. Then, uh, Jason made his way to
Speaker 1: the ring from the concourse and we had our first
Speaker 1: of the triple threat matches to earn a chance to
Speaker 1: enter a fatal four way to then earn a chance
Speaker 1: at the Icy title.
Speaker 3: I had a weird mix of triple threat matches.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hope in the context of this that we just
Speaker 1: get an open challenge where someone just gets to show
Speaker 1: up on a video screen and get a shot and
Speaker 1: bypass all of this. So Jay Wednesday eight minutes, what
Speaker 1: do you think?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I didn't think I was right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right? Then Sound by Air with Gunther in Europe.
Speaker 1: Any any thoughts on that promo? It wasn't a big
Speaker 1: part of the show. No, Yeah, all right. Then Randy
Speaker 1: Orton's promo covered a lot of ground here, which you think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 3: It was weird, and I don't mean that in a
Speaker 3: negative way. I kind of enjoy like pandering babyface Orton
Speaker 3: because it's in such contrast how he usually presents himself.
Speaker 3: And then he twisted himself into a knot to explain
Speaker 3: why this random trinket that created a year ago is
Speaker 3: important to him. Yeah, God, God bless you anymore. You're
Speaker 3: really You're really trying here, You're really trying. It was different.
Speaker 3: I I enjoyed it. I don't I don't know how
Speaker 3: effective it was, but you know, I thought it was.
Speaker 3: I thought it was fun. It's sort of a little
Speaker 3: you know, novelty, uh novelty promo that you know is
Speaker 3: the sort of thing you typically hear from him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, all right. Then Bronson read in Big excuse me,
Speaker 1: Bronze Strowman and Big Bronson Reid.
Speaker 3: You can call them both big.
Speaker 1: It's fine, that's true. Big ended up in a parking
Speaker 1: lot with a roof getting caved in somewhat, sparks flying,
Speaker 1: as happens when people land on roofs.
Speaker 3: I watched that multiple times, Wade, and my first thought was, like,
Speaker 3: did they gimmick a spark in that thing? Like, what
Speaker 3: a weird thing to do? Why would there be sparks
Speaker 3: in the car? I watched it a few times. I
Speaker 3: think that was legit. I think that was legitimately something
Speaker 3: weird happening with the wiring there the car is like
Speaker 3: I would think if they wanted to like do like
Speaker 3: a big spark thing, there have been multiple sparks going off.
Speaker 3: It was just one little wire like at that top area,
Speaker 3: and it was so you know, it was so weird
Speaker 3: and it was just so small that I thought, I
Speaker 3: think that's probably legit. I mean, I certainly would not
Speaker 3: be shocked if that was gimmicked, but like, what a
Speaker 3: weird thing to gimmick like one spark off in.
Speaker 1: The mid really, you know?
Speaker 3: So yeah, it was it was odd either way.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's like a w the Pyro was supposed to
Speaker 1: be a lot more spectacular and it just kind of fizzled,
Speaker 1: And now we're all talking about a little little fizzle,
Speaker 1: little spark.
Speaker 3: Oh the Eddie Kingston thing, Yeah, yeah, although yeah, explosion,
Speaker 3: the poor eight one one thing happens a few years
Speaker 3: another you know, it's like they're known for that. It's
Speaker 3: a promotion. Yeah, I thought it was that.
Speaker 1: That was the actually a historically significant moment in a
Speaker 1: w in a certain way because it's I think it's
Speaker 1: a turning point for some people, like the Tony Khan
Speaker 1: because of how he handled that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the reaction afterwards, Yeah, that was great. I thought
Speaker 3: it was a fun brawl. They didn't give you a finish,
Speaker 3: but I think that's fine. They gave you a lot
Speaker 3: of chaos. Bronson came out looking strong, and I assume
Speaker 3: it's building to Bronson getting a pin in another time.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I thought it was a fun brawl and
Speaker 3: best thing on the show for you know my book.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what's a what's a likely trajectory of Bronz
Speaker 1: Strowman and Bronson read both coming out of this.
Speaker 3: Stroman is just a you know, guy there to put
Speaker 3: over other people, and you know you have to. You
Speaker 3: want to present him strong enough that he can help
Speaker 3: in putting over other people, which means, you know, showcasing
Speaker 3: how big and impressive he looks, and the fact he
Speaker 3: does have some credibility built in from being pushed at
Speaker 3: points in the past. But yeah, I mean, he's there
Speaker 3: to help other people at this point. And as far
Speaker 3: as Bronson read, I mean that's a big question. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, it sure didn't feel like Hunter had a
Speaker 3: lot of belief in uh In Bronson Reid. And you
Speaker 3: know it's even even when they started, you know that
Speaker 3: they started to set up this you know, little program
Speaker 3: with seth Rawlins. I you know, I initially was not
Speaker 3: sold either that you know, that they were going to
Speaker 3: do something significant with him. But you know, they they
Speaker 3: sure seem more invested in him now. So hopefully hopefully
Speaker 3: they they are. I mean, because I I think highly
Speaker 3: of the guy, and uh, you know, I think you're
Speaker 3: seeing you know, I think you're seeing him do well
Speaker 3: in the role. So yeah, hopefully they're hopefully they're thinking
Speaker 3: of him that as somebody that can be a you know,
Speaker 3: player in the in the upper mix for a while.
Speaker 1: All right, then, Uh, Pete Dunn Exavor Woods in the
Speaker 1: miss and the other uh and other weird match. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Dun gets to win here in eleven minutes with a
Speaker 1: bitter end what pinning miss?
Speaker 3: What do you think? It's fine? I don't like Pete
Speaker 3: Dunn's odds of earning this title shot though, hmm, sorry Pete.
Speaker 1: Then Jack a brown breaker back stage who commented on
Speaker 1: on the the fight, the fight's going on to try
Speaker 1: to earn a shot. What'd you think?
Speaker 3: I thought it was pretty good. I enjoyed the little
Speaker 3: callback to the Steiners and the Headshrinkuerds and small and
Speaker 3: Swat Team, So, I mean, I wasn't even thinking about
Speaker 3: that Sarah context in uh in this little few but
Speaker 3: that's little, you know, little historical contexts for people that
Speaker 3: remember those matches, and you know, they had some fun matches.
Speaker 1: Then Chack Gable and Uncle Howdie and he's right, I
Speaker 1: don't remember.
Speaker 3: I don't remember the you know, the Fai family beating,
Speaker 3: the beating the Steiners.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wouldn't know either way, but for sure, but yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so Chack Gable Uncle Howdy in the main event. How
Speaker 1: did Uncle Howdie's debut singles match on Raw as a
Speaker 1: wrestler go?
Speaker 3: For you? By the way, Before that, they aired a
Speaker 3: little Damian Priest for of Repley video that I thought
Speaker 3: it was excellent. I thought they had the perfect time
Speaker 3: in terms of the way they're sort of carrying themselves
Speaker 3: and interacting together and sort of having an edge to it,
Speaker 3: but being baby faces, I thought the match was okay.
Speaker 3: I do think there's a bit of an Emperor's new
Speaker 3: clothes issue with the group once you step away the gimmicks,
Speaker 3: but you know, so it goes.
Speaker 1: Yeah anything else from Rock Nope? All right, so let's
Speaker 1: run through the Bashi in Berlin lineup. There'll be a
Speaker 1: little bit more hype obviously tomorrow night on SmackDown, Goon
Speaker 1: through Randy Orton. Is zeem pretty obvious that goes on last?
Speaker 1: Or is it obvious the undisputed title that Cody Hoads
Speaker 1: goes on last, because that's the most prestigious title and
Speaker 1: Cody is still the biggest star on the show.
Speaker 3: I would be I would be surprised if if the
Speaker 3: Cody match goes on last. I think they're gonna go
Speaker 3: last with Gun and RTN.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, Guthornton, what do you think? What do you
Speaker 1: think of this is what happens?
Speaker 3: I'm I'm curious, you know how good it is? I mean,
Speaker 3: the crowd should be really hot. I never expect a
Speaker 3: classic out of Randy Orton, but I think this has
Speaker 3: a better chance of being that than any other match.
Speaker 3: Orton's had in over a decade because he's in there
Speaker 3: with Gunter in a great setting and a high profile spot.
Speaker 3: So you know, here's this chance, you know, to prove that,
Speaker 3: you know, you know, prove what type of great wrestler
Speaker 3: he is because he's you know, often labeled a great wrestler,
Speaker 3: but he you know, and I mean he you know,
Speaker 3: he obviously has his has his strengths as a performer,
Speaker 3: but he does he hasn't has produced a lot of
Speaker 3: classic matches over the years, and this is you know,
Speaker 3: a uh, you know, a definite opportunity and as far
Speaker 3: as the finish yet, Gunter will definitely one.
Speaker 1: And as we talked about the production meeting, I take
Speaker 1: the other side, and I think that's going to be
Speaker 1: a letdown. I think peop are going to be disappointed.
Speaker 1: I think people's hopes are too high. The build has
Speaker 1: actually been too effective and built up expectations and it
Speaker 1: will be a typical three star Randy Orton special and
Speaker 1: going through have to prove himself against other opponents.
Speaker 3: Well you say that, I'm not taking a strong stand
Speaker 3: on Orton having a you know, better than three star match.
Speaker 3: I mean, like, you know, like there's you know there's
Speaker 3: a Charlie Brown football element to to doing that, like
Speaker 3: you know, like, uh, I'll take what comes, but yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm I'm not you know, like, don't don't watch this
Speaker 3: show because you know, Todd guaranteed you're getting a uh,
Speaker 3: you know, a four and a half star on the
Speaker 3: old scale match.
Speaker 1: You know that goes with your UOC event recommendations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, UFC's are tough to product. It's you
Speaker 3: know that most of them are very good, but you know,
Speaker 3: you know, some of the ones you don't expect to
Speaker 3: be very good or are are good, and some of
Speaker 3: the ones you uh, you expect to be very good
Speaker 3: artist good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So Cody and Kevin Kale other Men's
Speaker 1: World Tidle Match, what do you think? What do you
Speaker 1: think happens here?
Speaker 3: Cody will win, and you know the question is whether
Speaker 3: they're gonna, you know, work an angle into the finish
Speaker 3: or whether they have Cody win and then do an
Speaker 3: angle afterwards, either after the match or in the coming weeks.
Speaker 3: I do not expect this to be a one off
Speaker 3: with Cody winning and Owen's continuing his a face, even
Speaker 3: if Owens isn't turning out of this thing. I still
Speaker 3: think they're going to continue this thing after the show.
Speaker 1: Then Seeampunk your McIntire strap match. What's what's gonna happen here?
Speaker 3: I mean, since you know drew one the last one,
Speaker 3: I think Punk will get us one back here and
Speaker 3: he'll get the bracelet, so we can move on from
Speaker 3: that this particular aspect. But I don't expect the program
Speaker 3: overall to be over well. I hope that they can
Speaker 3: have a better match than they did at Summer Sam.
Speaker 3: And granted I was lower on that than than some people,
Speaker 3: but you know, the consensus was not like awesome either.
Speaker 1: Right. Does the bracelet end up in a glass case
Speaker 1: that's some hall of fame or dough to b experience
Speaker 1: event in Saudi Arabia or elsewhere someday, or I.
Speaker 3: Mean, it's I think it's way too precious to let
Speaker 3: seem Punk let it out of his hands in an exhibit.
Speaker 1: It would be actually somewhat hypocritical of Punk to it
Speaker 1: it to be on display because it is so private.
Speaker 3: No, he's gonna have that under his pillow.
Speaker 1: Except for you know, a random week when he says
Speaker 1: the bracelet doesn't matter. And I don't know if that
Speaker 1: was reverse psychology.
Speaker 3: Or I think what happened there looking back was they
Speaker 3: hadn't sort of decided how this thing was going to
Speaker 3: play out, and they're like, well, let's just you know,
Speaker 3: like because they're like, this thing isn't working. And then
Speaker 3: someone's like, hey, you know what, let's just finish it
Speaker 3: off at the at the next show and we'll have
Speaker 3: you know, Punk get the bracelet back and then we'll
Speaker 3: move on from there. So I think I think that
Speaker 3: was the decision.
Speaker 1: And then Punk said, do I want to speak up
Speaker 1: and say? This makes me look like an idiot? Because
Speaker 1: one week I'm saying how portant it is, the next
Speaker 1: week I'm saying it doesn't matter to me, and then
Speaker 1: I'm back to caring about it. And I don't think
Speaker 1: this works for me, but I don't want to be
Speaker 1: that person who complains, So I'm just going to go
Speaker 1: with it because the paycheck's clear.
Speaker 3: He's he's done plenty of things this year that undercut
Speaker 3: him more than caring about a bracelet one weekend, then
Speaker 3: not carying about the next week, yeah, and then carry
Speaker 3: about the week.
Speaker 4: Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to learn
Speaker 4: some wrestling history don't miss the Nineties Past cast every
Speaker 4: Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Alex and
Speaker 4: Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past by
Speaker 4: taking you through the Torch issue from that very week.
Speaker 4: Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the
Speaker 4: happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time as
Speaker 4: The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the Nineties
Speaker 4: Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed.
Speaker 1: All right, then, Dami Prieston, Rea Ripley against Dominic Masterio
Speaker 1: and Live Morgan a mixed bag match. What do you
Speaker 1: think of the build and how anticipated this match is
Speaker 1: at this point given all the lead up to it.
Speaker 3: I think the bill has been good. I think there's
Speaker 3: a I think there's anticipation for the match. I think
Speaker 3: people are are looking forward to it and we'll enjoy it.
Speaker 3: I'm of two minds in the finish. On on the
Speaker 3: one hand, Rhea and Priest are so much higher priorities
Speaker 3: than Domin Live and domond Live just got over on
Speaker 3: them at Summer Slam, So part of me says, let
Speaker 3: Rihion and Priests get the win and then you can
Speaker 3: get the heat back on them on the heels. After that,
Speaker 3: other part of me says that, like, because Rihei and
Speaker 3: Priest are so much stronger, you know, give Judgment Day
Speaker 3: a win, to give them a little credibility at the
Speaker 3: start of the angle. The thing that tests me towards
Speaker 3: having Priest and Real win is that Baler isn't in
Speaker 3: the match, and they presented him as the strongest linking
Speaker 3: Judgment Day. So you can have them, you know, you
Speaker 3: can have Priest pin Dominic and then still, you know,
Speaker 3: move things towards a you know, a ballort priest match.
Speaker 1: All right, and what's the last match? Oh, the women's
Speaker 1: take title match Fire and Don against Beller and Jade.
Speaker 3: I'd be very surprised if Bianca and Jay didn't win
Speaker 3: back the titles. But then again, I was very surprised
Speaker 3: they lost him in the first place. But I don't
Speaker 3: expect the breakup to come until wrestling any of time,
Speaker 3: So it makes more sense in the interim to have
Speaker 3: them holding the titles and not holding the titles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, anything else before we turn away from
Speaker 1: do to b t UC Nope, all right, so USC, Todd,
Speaker 1: what's on? What's on the docket?
Speaker 3: For the Fix this week. So we're gonna talk about
Speaker 3: last week's show, which was a good show, and uh,
Speaker 3: this is one that that probably should run the road
Speaker 3: rather than at the Apex because unlike the vast majority
Speaker 3: of these Apex shows, this had, you know, a bunch
Speaker 3: of high quality fighters and steakes. Main event was Kyo
Speaker 3: Baralio and Jared Cannonier. That that named Kyle Borlio. It
Speaker 3: feels like it's just ready to go off the rails
Speaker 3: at any point, you know, Like I feel like, even
Speaker 3: if you get used to saying it, it's you know,
Speaker 3: you can never feel that comfortable.
Speaker 1: With it, the whole name or the last name, Like
Speaker 1: what what really all of it?
Speaker 3: It's just it's just a roller coaster of a name.
Speaker 3: So Bahalio is the upstart, younger guy undefeating the UFC.
Speaker 3: Cannoneer is the veteran who's been a top contender for years,
Speaker 3: and as is often the case in M m A,
Speaker 3: it was a changing in the guard competitive fight earlier early,
Speaker 3: but Bralio Bohalio took over as it went on. Rock
Speaker 3: Canyear in the third, Rock Canyear in the fifth, and uh,
Speaker 3: Cannoneer wasn't reacting all that well to getting hit, which
Speaker 3: is not a great sign as you uh get into
Speaker 3: your forties, and Bajolio called for a fight afterwards with
Speaker 3: the Draycus Duplessy, which he won't get, but he might
Speaker 3: be maybe two or three fights away if he can
Speaker 3: keep winning, so uh, you know, he's uh, he's not
Speaker 3: that far off at this point and this this fight
Speaker 3: will will help him because he he looked good against Ah,
Speaker 3: a good opponent. They also had the Ultimate Fighter Finales
Speaker 3: Our finals. I mentioned last week about how much Robert
Speaker 3: Valentine had stood out on the show, and unfortunately he
Speaker 3: lost to a pretty one dimensional Westler. Ryan Loder took
Speaker 3: him down and Valentine actually went to town with submissions
Speaker 3: and was controlling most of the fight on the ground,
Speaker 3: but eventually Vader was able to trap him in a
Speaker 3: crucifix and it wasn't like he was devastating Valentine with
Speaker 3: with with shots by any means, but he was just
Speaker 3: trapped and the referee stopped that because he wasn't able
Speaker 3: to defend himself. And that I feel like there was
Speaker 3: a finish more a number of years back, and it's
Speaker 3: it's not satisfying one because like you're not. You're not
Speaker 3: really like it's it's it's almost like a loophole finish
Speaker 3: because like you're not. The crucifix is not a position
Speaker 3: where you usually can do that much damage from because
Speaker 3: you have to use you have to control the guy's
Speaker 3: arms in a way that you can only throw elbows
Speaker 3: from relatively short distance. And you can do some damage
Speaker 3: with those short elbows from from from from short distance,
Speaker 3: but it's, you know, usually it just ends up being
Speaker 3: relatively light, you know, light punches and elbows. But if
Speaker 3: you just keep you know, punching an elbow and the
Speaker 3: guy and the guy isn't you know, isn't able to
Speaker 3: do anything to defend himself, then you know, referees are
Speaker 3: gonna stop it, so so it goes. Other final was
Speaker 3: Myron Santos knocking out Confley with a left hooke in exchange.
Speaker 3: Beautiful finish, but I don't see either of these finishers
Speaker 3: winners going far as Dana White Contender Series has become
Speaker 3: the the dominant entry point for UFC fighters now, and
Speaker 3: Ultimate Fighter is basically an afterthought kind of a relic
Speaker 3: from you know, from an earlier days with you know,
Speaker 3: Dana White Can Series being where they filter you know,
Speaker 3: pretty much all the top contenders through and put the
Speaker 3: top prospects through rather and you know, now you know,
Speaker 3: so many of the uh you know, the top fighters
Speaker 3: in the UFC roster came through you know, came through
Speaker 3: the UH through the Contender series. By the way, I
Speaker 3: there's a funny moment of the Contender Series this week
Speaker 3: where these two guys had a great fight and they
Speaker 3: make this big production the Dana White is going to
Speaker 3: give the loser not only his show bonus, not only
Speaker 3: his win bonus, but another bonus on top of that,
Speaker 3: and the announcers are like freaking out, like oh my god,
Speaker 3: like what a you know, they've never done anything like this.
Speaker 3: He's getting all these bonuses. And then later you overhear
Speaker 3: Data White going yeah, you're getting an extra fifteen K,
Speaker 3: and it's like, I mean, look, I'd like to have,
Speaker 3: you know, I'd like fifteen K for Data if he
Speaker 3: wants to give me for fifteen K. But they've made
Speaker 3: such this production and it's like, you know, fifteen K
Speaker 3: of this promotion that's you know, like a million dollar company,
Speaker 3: and uh, you know is uh he is making hundreds
Speaker 3: of millions of dollars a year anyway. Uh. In addition
Speaker 3: to the to the to the main event and the
Speaker 3: Ulti Fighter finale's uh, there is also another up and
Speaker 3: comer versus veteran fight with Neil Magni and Michael Morales,
Speaker 3: and up and Comer won there too. Magni was going
Speaker 3: for takedown on Morales and Morales was defending for a while,
Speaker 3: and then when he had a moment, he threw a
Speaker 3: spinning back elbow and it you know, it knocked uh,
Speaker 3: Magni down and back and down, and he got him
Speaker 3: down to the ground, got his back, finding him out
Speaker 3: and pounded him out. So Morales now seventeen to oh
Speaker 3: and uh, he's only twenty five, so he could have
Speaker 3: a pretty uh, pretty bright future there given the way
Speaker 3: his his career started. Edmund Shabbassian and Jerald Miershard this
Speaker 3: is a hell will come back. So Miershart has always
Speaker 3: been a one dimensional submission guy and Shabbasian was just
Speaker 3: lighting him upstanding for pretty much the entire fight. But
Speaker 3: Meershart survived. He hung in there to his credit and
Speaker 3: uh and in the second late in the second he
Speaker 3: managed to take down and grabbed an arm triangle and
Speaker 3: got the submission, so it was, uh, it was quite
Speaker 3: the turnaround. And with that submission, Meershart is now the
Speaker 3: middleweight fighter in UFC history with the most finishes, which boy,
Speaker 3: I don't know anyone would have been able to guess
Speaker 3: if they hadn't heard it specifically on this telecast, because
Speaker 3: that is one, you know, counterintuitive record. But good for uh,
Speaker 3: good for Meershart and uh for Schabasian. I mean it's
Speaker 3: you know, it's not the first time he managed to
Speaker 3: smash smash defeat from the jaws of victory and impressive
Speaker 3: opener as Wayang Kong knocked out Victoria Leonardo with a
Speaker 3: two punch combination in a hurry, and Kong has a
Speaker 3: kickbox background. She wants to beat Valentina Chevchenko and kickboxing.
Speaker 3: She's on being an MMA and she's confident. After the
Speaker 3: beautiful k I winning her UFC debut, she said she
Speaker 3: wasn't happy because she should have been on the main
Speaker 3: card rather than the opener, which is a pretty badass
Speaker 3: thing to say. So I enjoyed that and no no
Speaker 3: show this week so people can enjoy the return of
Speaker 3: college football on Siduray, although it's starting up starting up
Speaker 3: now only a few minutes from from North Carolina, Carolina
Speaker 3: and Minnesota. Wade excited. I no, no, yeah, what what
Speaker 3: a disappointment?
Speaker 1: When when does? When's the first NFL game next weekend?
Speaker 3: Well, next Thursday on.
Speaker 1: A Thursday night. Okay, yeah, so it's another Thursday night start. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, as we're recording next week.
Speaker 1: Yes, what what is the opening game?
Speaker 3: I have it here somewhere I don't remember offhand, but
Speaker 3: as usual, it's in Kansas City. Yeah, there you go,
Speaker 3: big game.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't even know who the Vikings playing their
Speaker 1: first game. I'm gonna look this up on NERK Giants. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I would say, I would say an easy first Treek,
Speaker 3: but I don't know that the Viking is gonna have
Speaker 3: many easy weeks this year.
Speaker 1: No, no, yeah, all right, it's a Sunday new game.
Speaker 1: All right, Todd. We will wrap up there and come
Speaker 1: back with the fixed minback.
Speaker 3: That's good.
Speaker 1: Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions
Speaker 1: or comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at
Speaker 1: PTW torch dot com. That's Wade Keller Podcast at PW
Speaker 1: torch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter. Even
Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at pw Torch and follow me
Speaker 1: at the wade Keller. That's at PW Torch and at
Speaker 1: the Wave Keller.
Speaker 8: Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me
Speaker 8: Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast.
Speaker 8: Each week you'll hear the latest news and analysis from
Speaker 8: me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need, along
Speaker 8: with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling
Speaker 8: Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in
Speaker 8: the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and iTunes, Stitcher, Downcast, and
Speaker 8: all your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at
Speaker 8: PW boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom dot com.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know we
Speaker 1: also have a website pwtorch dot com. Daily news updates, editorials,
Speaker 1: and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown
Speaker 1: and my live pay per view coverage for WWE and AEW.
Speaker 1: Create a tab or bookmark make it a daily stop.
Speaker 1: Visit us throughout the day every day to keep up
Speaker 1: on breaking news and more. That's pwtorch dot com.
Speaker 5: Need an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts?
Speaker 5: Will come join me Alan ferel Over in the Progress
Speaker 5: Paradise at Pterboo Torch VIP as we mask on the
Speaker 5: bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the
Speaker 5: great matches and shows from around the world, be it
Speaker 5: the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's always a place
Speaker 5: for wrestlings past in the Paradise too, and we've done
Speaker 5: fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger series
Speaker 5: celebrating the glorious career of Jusian Thunderliger and our eye
Speaker 5: was there when shows where our guests will join me
Speaker 5: to talk about a classic bout that they were in
Speaker 5: attendance for. We love variety and you can expect lots
Speaker 5: of it at the Progress Paradise. Detailed pwof Torch VIP
Speaker 5: subscription information and a list of all the VIP benefits
Speaker 5: is available at PWW torch vipinfo dot com. And yes,
Speaker 5: all VIP podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on
Speaker 5: iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them directly
Speaker 5: from our ad free VIP mobile site.
Speaker 1: See You in the Paradise. One way that you can
Speaker 1: help us sustain our schedule of putting out podcasts throughout
Speaker 1: the week is by giving us a five star rating
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. Just go to Apple Podcasts and look
Speaker 1: for our Weight Keller Prossing podcast and Weight Keller Prossing
Speaker 1: Post show and give us a five star rating. We
Speaker 1: hope you think we've earned that score with our fast
Speaker 1: turnaround times and our quantity and quality of wrestling analysis
Speaker 1: throughout the week. So take a moment out for us
Speaker 1: and do us favor and give us a five star
Speaker 1: rating and Apple Podcasts. That helps us on search returns
Speaker 1: and helps us grow. And if you want, you can
Speaker 1: add a few comments about what you like about the
Speaker 1: programs in the comments section. Thank you so much.
Speaker 11: In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and
Speaker 11: ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch Vip
Speaker 11: podcast NXT eight years Back, we'll be taking a weekly
Speaker 11: look at this page in NXT's early history.
Speaker 7: Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks
Speaker 7: NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to
Speaker 7: the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they
Speaker 7: did or didn't work out exclusively for PW torch Vip members.
Speaker 1: PW torch Vip membership doesn't just give you ad free
Speaker 1: access to these shows and a ton of other VIP
Speaker 1: exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain access
Speaker 1: to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our contemporaneous
Speaker 1: week to week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly newsletters
Speaker 1: dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with streaming
Speaker 1: and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows from
Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with wrestling's
Speaker 1: top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast library
Speaker 1: dating back to the year two thousand and three. There's
Speaker 1: no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than that
Speaker 1: that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now approaching
Speaker 1: twenty years of podcasting, Go vip and dive into our
Speaker 1: post pay per view roundtables are covered to some of
Speaker 1: your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long form interviews
Speaker 1: and special format podcasts that we've done throughout the years.
Speaker 1: Toorch dot com slash go vi ip. We have a
Speaker 1: streamline sign up for me and you can pay with
Speaker 1: PayPal or directly with your credit card or debit card.
Speaker 1: In one or two minutes from right now, you can
Speaker 1: be a VIP member and diving into our library. Pw
Speaker 1: torch dot com, slash go VIP