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Speaker 1: It's all in one location. Ero dot net A r

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r oe dot net. I've talked about hosting seventeen different

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podcasts for how many years, and it's been like, well,

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where are they at? I don't know, just google it. Well,

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that's not a good idea ero dot net, A r

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r oe dot net. Good morning, doctor, How are you

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doing today?

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Speaker 2: Hey, I'm great, Thanks so much.

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Speaker 1: You do realize how important this book is, right because

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we are in an age where we've got a bunch

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of introverts taking on people that are extroverts, and somewhere

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in the middle there's silence and it's like, oh, but

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the doctor is up to something, Miss Chloe.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I think that's very well said. I'm glad that

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the topic clicks for you.

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Speaker 1: Well, it clicks with me because I've dedicated my soul

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to being in the public eye. But the problem is

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is I'm getting a lot of shrug shoulders, eyes that

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are rolling, people that would rather return to their smartphone.

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And when I stepped inside your pages, I'm going, this

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is the answer, this is what I've actually been looking for,

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because now I can utilize the tools and Doctor Chloe

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can step through that door and help these that are

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going whenever you only live once.

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Speaker 2: Well, thanks, Erro, I'm so glad to hear that. I'm

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glad you're excited about the topic.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean your research in here is spot on.

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When you talk about eighty four percent of Americans believe that,

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you know, is that we're talking cancel culture, We're talking censorship,

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We're talking about serious issues. Eighty four percent of Americans

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know what's going on. But what are we doing about it?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that they know what's going on, but

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they think that the safe move then is to just

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you know, stay quiet. And so my book is to

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help them realize that that's actually not the safe thing.

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That there's a mental health cost to stifling yourself, you know, repressions, depression, denial,

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actually loneliness as well, when we are you know, masking

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our true selves from people. So I want them to

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understand that if we really care about mental health, that

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doesn't mean everybody's shut up and be in a safe space.

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It means actually we learn how to be ourselves and

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let other people be themselves.

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Speaker 1: How many people had my dad for a dad who

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would look at me straight in the eye and say,

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do not speak unless you're spoken to and it's like,

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oh okay, and then I got into radio boy. I

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didn't listen to him, did I?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you have it so special skill set. They're errow.

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Speaker 1: I mean, because I mean you're talking about the five

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tools of self restraint. Oh my god, this is so

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what's going on in the world. Because people are more

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apt to thinking, I've got a voice, I can say

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whatever I want. Now restrain it so I can listen

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to you, so I can patiently sit here and together

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we can create a solution.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. So I want people to understand that too, is

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that you know, we're not talking about having no filter here,

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that there's a difference between self censorship, which is where

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you're really holding back on true things that actually matter

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to you in terms of your values, versus you know,

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healthy self restraint, like you don't have to like literally

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say everything to everybody all the time. That there is

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a happy medium. But I think right now people are

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just so scared by cancel culture that they're just they're

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going too far into the silence, or they're making other

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people think that they have to be silent, you know,

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like the speech police type people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, doctor Cloyd. Do you know how many creative

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people from musicians to actors to even directors are telling

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me when I say, are you going to step out

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and speak? Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm good.

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I'm good. And it's like, don't say that. Don't be

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afraid of cancel culture, because I mean, it's like, we've

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got to be able to keep moving forward here. That's

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who we are.

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Speaker 2: Totally. And you know, though, to be honest, I didn't

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even get this. As a clinical psychologist. I used to

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just do a lot of self censoring because I had

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a lot of big relationships in the media and you know,

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big business and getting a PhD in clinical psychology in

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New York, there's a lot of opinions, you know that

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you have to just keep to yourself, and so I

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just had done that so often without even realizing the

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toll it was taking. And then one day, with some

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COVID issues, I had just had enough and I spoke

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up and I was like, wow, like this is different.

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You know, there's cognitive benefits, there's emotional regulation benefits, all

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these you know, kind of network issues, and I said, wow,

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how could I have missed this that, like, of course

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we need to be authentic.

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Speaker 1: I would like to know how many families have been

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damaged by this, because I mean, first of all, we

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always called my sister she was mouth. That was her

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name in the family. She would say things right off

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the top of her head. And what do you say

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right here in your book? Relax your body and your mouth,

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Just relax it. But the thing about it is, though,

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when you talk about the mental health issues here, how

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many families are broken up and they're not going back.

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That is a mental health issue that needs to come together.

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Because we've all been family. We can't break up and

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not see each other again totally.

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Speaker 2: And so that gets into this whole confusion around the

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phrase that words are violence. That's why I think many

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families are getting broken up. And there's something called the

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five d's, which is different on social media, disinviting a speaker,

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declining to date, dropping contact altogether in real life, or

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just distancing contact in real life. And there's a certain

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group of people that are statistically a lot more likely

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to do that over political differences. And that same group

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of people is also statistically a lot more likely to

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endorse political violence against people that disagree with them. And

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so I think that you're really onto something there of

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noticing that there's a rift in families, and it's because

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of this whole idea that people have about you know,

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words or violence. And if you know my parents voted

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for somebody I didn't like, then I just have to

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uproot them out of my life. And I really believe

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they mean well, but they're misguided. They think that this

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is the road to a healthier, compassionate society. And I

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want them to know that cutting off dialogue is actually

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the worst thing we can do. If we want to

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have a peaceful, harmonious society, we have to learn how

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to have disagreements but still have respect for one another.

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Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with doctor Chloe Carmichael

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coming up next the name of a book. Can I

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say that we're back with doctor Chloe Carmichael. What is

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the best way to handle this, Doctor Chloe in the

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way of when somebody does come at you with something

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that you don't believe in. Because we all know the

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political world, and because I'm very quick to say, well,

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I understand your point of view, I want to listen

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to your point of view because I think you've got

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something I need to learn. And when I learned from

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that you have to take the time to listen to

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my side of the story. Am I am I? Am

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I a fire starter?

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Speaker 2: No, No, that's perfect. I love it because, as you said,

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if somebody comes at you with something that you disagree with,

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by definition, you know you have you expressed yourself, are

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coming at them with something that they disagree with. So

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it goes both ways. So I think what's helpful. There's

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a technique in the book called reflective listening. Yeah, so

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what you do then, and is you just say, hey, look,

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I think think we see this issue very differently, but

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I want to make sure we're not talking past each

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other because did you know that when people's heart rate

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goes above one hundred beats per minute, which it often

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does in heated discussions, they literally cognitively cannot comprehend fully

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and accurately what the other person is saying. So to

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solve that, you say, let's do the reflective listening technique.

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You say what you believe, and then I will just

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repeat it back to you, recap it, make sure I

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really got it, and when you feel sure that I

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truly heard you, then I'll do the same thing and

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you recap it back to me, and then we'll see

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just where our differences are. So step one there is

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to just make sure you're really truly hearing each other

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and that everybody's getting a chance to talk.

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Speaker 1: You know, doctor, I'm that guy when somebody comes at

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me and it raises my blood pressure like that and

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my heart rate up there like that, the first thing

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that I do is I go mum. And they'll sit

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there and say, oh, you're going to go quiet on me,

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and my answer is no, I'm meditating. Would you like

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me to show you how to meditate so that we

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can have a real peaceful conversation here, And I'm serious

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about that. I'll show you how to meditate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's so good. And then I think

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another thing that helps in those conversations is to explain

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to someone that you want the goal of the conversation

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not to be for one person to win or lose,

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or even to be persuaded. But how about if we

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try to figure out a whether we actually have a

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disagreement on objective facts, like something that could be looked

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up and determined or be whether we agree upon the facts,

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but we just simply interpret them and evaluate them differently,

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Because that way we're making it about information and getting

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to know each other rather than about you know, quote

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winning or losing.

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Speaker 1: God, I want to bring up this subject and I

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don't know how to bring it up. Because you're a doctor,

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I can bring it up, but at the same time,

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I don't want to offend anybody. I did not know

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who Charlie Kirk was. But when I went in there

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and I watched all the videos and I saw that

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he was a listener first, Oh my god, that opened

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up my eyes. And that's that's where I want to study.

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I want to be that guy that listens to everything

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that is going right or wrong. It's cross eyed, it

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doesn't matter. Just be the listener first. And then if

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you need to say something, put this book in your

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heart and grow with it and do it in a

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really very well faithful as well as a loving way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, I think you're really onto something there. And

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you know, Charlie Kirk was totally a master at that,

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of course, and you know, it's sad the way that

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so many people really vilified him. But one of the

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things you know that I think he also did is

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he would try to focus on something about the person speaking. Yep,

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that was actually likable, you know. I mean, so even

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if you totally disagree with what the person is saying,

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to just think to yourself, like, well, you know, this

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is probably actually a really intelligent person, or this is

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actually probably a very well intentioned person. And that's how

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he was able to keep rapport with people, and like

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you said, to listen to them and then that pounce

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on them with his opinion, but oftentimes there's respond to

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them with a question, and that was like really helpful

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because they realized he wasn't just trying to talk at them,

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he was truly trying to have a dialogue.

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Speaker 1: You bring up three common objections? Whoa wait a second,

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that means I'm relating with somebody. Three common objections to

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free speech? You mean we've got something in common here.

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Speaker 2: Totally, So yeah, like common you know, well intentioned objections

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to free speech or things like well what about misinformation?

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And you know, actually, as I explain, we have better

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quality information when we can have open debate and dialogue. Right,

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you know, so if somebody's wrong, great, you know, expose them,

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talk about it. But pushing someone underground actually only makes

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it harder, you know, to debunk them. Another common objection

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is you know, well, what about hate speech and bullying?

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And interestingly, you know, violence actually increases when dialogue ceases.

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And so if people are saying things you know that

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you think are hateful or mean or whatever, telling them

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to shut up is only going to like make the

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problem worse. It's so much better if we can invite

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them to share, talk it through, even agree to disagree.

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And that doesn't mean we have to tolerate abuse. But I

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just think in this you know, words of violence day

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and age, people will label anything as hate speech and bullying,

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and so when people are truly just sitting there at

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the dinner table having a conversation, I think, you know,

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to flip it on its head, the hate speech or

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bully is the person who's trying to shut the other

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people up and prevent them from expressing themselves.

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Speaker 1: Don't you think that hate speech and bullying can actually

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begin sometimes innocently in the way that two people can

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be over in the corner having a conversation. They happen

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to look at somebody and they're going, oh, they're talking

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about me. Oh my god, I hate these people. I

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know they're talking about me. They looked at me. How

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do we get beyond that. I mean, seriously, we're not

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talking about you. We were talking about McDonald's, and it's like,

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I'm so sorry that we looked up. But we are

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in that generation where everybody thinks we're talking about them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I mean I feel like we could

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talk all day long about that Moneuly. I know we

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got to wrap up here soon, but that's a good question.

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I think we'll pick that one up next time. I

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love it.

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Speaker 1: Well, where can we go to find out more information

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about you?

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Speaker 2: I would love that. Go to free Speech today dot com.

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At free Speech today dot com, you can get my book,

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which is can I say that Why free speech matters

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and how to use it fearlessly. You can connect with

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me on social media all kinds of other stuff at

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freespeech today dot com.

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Speaker 1: Well, please come back to this show any time in

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the future. The door is always going to be open

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for you. A doctor.

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Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much, Aero. I'd love that.

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Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today you too?

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Speaker 2: Thanks again, Bye bye,