Speaker 1: While she was remote viewing. All of a sudden, down
this corridor, this being the shadow person, whatever you want
to call it, came racing towards her. It was giant
size and rushed her and literally booted her completely out
of the complex. While on as we're traveler remote viewing.
Speaker 2: We came up to around about on the left hand side,
we overtook a car that was going because it was
going really slowly. This car in front of us was
going really slowly and we wanted to get to our film,
so we overtook it and we looked to the left
as we were overhiking it and there was nobody in
the car at all.
Speaker 1: I felt this presence literally walk up on me along
the side of the bed and was standing right next
to me.
Speaker 3: The people on the other side were talking about a
level of reality between the earth and the spirit well
that they were contacting which no one was aware of,
and it's it's like another level where there is another
civilization there that exists. They were saved, and they said,
it's not bad, it's not necessarily good. It's just runs
alongside your own civilization, and it's between your world and
our world. You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network
and now it's time for the Paranormal peep Show. Now, Hi,
welcome to the Paranormal peep Show on the Paranormal UK
Radio Network, and I'm joined by Andrew Chaplin and special
guest tonight is Mark Johnson calling in from the US
of A. And Mark Johnson runs the Paranormal UK Radio
Network along with Irene Allen Block. So welcome Andy and
welcome Mark. And are you how are you both well?
One out of times I can with one for it?
Speaker 4: Hey deferred, Andy?
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, how you doing, Neil? So we're for our viewers.
We're we've had huge technical issues in actually trying to
connect to make this happen because since they've deleted Skype,
we've been running around with teams and zoom and goodness
knows what else, and there's so many technical things like
audio and video and connection problems. Isn't it weird? Apparently
we went to the Moon in the nineteen sixties and seventies,
and in all of that time we can't actually get
a proper kind of internet meeting together like in twenty
twenty five. Never mind that nineteen.
Speaker 3: Sec I'm going to revert to a tincam with a
piece of string. I think I think that was fairly reliable.
Speaker 2: Which is pretty much like the moon landings. Anyway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll just put it and we'll have Musk launch
a rocket and to get the string over here.
Speaker 2: Those dude don't rock.
Speaker 3: Do you think with all these satellites in the sky,
all these streams of satellites connecting, we'll at least been
against something that. I mean, we obviously have finally connected,
but it took a long dime. And I'd just like
to voice my public opinion. I think everyone's in agreement
that Skype was working fairly well. Yes, and they've discuided
to cancel it and Microsoft Teams, well, sod that for
a game of soldiers.
Speaker 2: I mean, if it works, why try and fix it.
If it ain't broken, don't fix.
Speaker 4: It, because that's their brand.
Speaker 5: That's why they bond Skype to get rid of it. Yeah,
today I am about to push their own product, Microsoft Teams,
which I don't know what I can say here.
Speaker 2: But well, let's just say it's performing as well as
their windows and as well as their vaccines.
Speaker 3: There you go, He'll fly me and so Mark, how
are you, first of all, well.
Speaker 1: It's been an interesting last several months, that's for sure.
I've been dealing with some health issues and whatnot, but
helping Irene get her not one, but two books published
within the last couple of months, which we'll talk about
here in a moment, and she and I are currently
working on one together, which is going to be a
very all encompassing book on the paranormal, going into detail
on different experiences we've had, both together separately, and just
trying to go into some familiar experiences that people have
to go into more detailed explanations, some that a lot
of people may not have thought of. Every night from
dealing with demons especially, that's her, that's her specialty. Mine
is dealing with the more wonky aspects of time and
multiple dimensions and things like that.
Speaker 3: So you've got Irene's book there, which Irene has kind
of selected you as a spokesperson for it. So, yes,
you've worked on it. So you know the book fairly well.
Speaker 1: Yes, so the one the one of the two books
we have. Well, unfortunately I don't have the book in
front of me. I went into a friend and having
on a back yet walking with the Dead, which is
her autobiography of growing up as a psychic medium and dealing.
Speaker 4: With all the.
Speaker 1: Really crazy things that she has experienced in her life
that so many people don't know about. She talks about
a few on our own radio show, The Paranormal UK
Radio Show, but this goes into so much more detail.
In fact, after reading the book, I was surprised because
she and I've been friends for over a decade now,
and there's things that I didn't even know that I
found to be fascinating, totally fascinating. And then she also
wrote this fictional book called Mysterious Tales of the Unseen,
which is a collection of paranormal themes, short stories kind
of in the vein of the old like nineteen forties
or serial like that would pear in newspaper magazines. That
it has that vibe to it, and there's some really
creepy stuff in here, a lot of it based on
some based on personal experiences, but it is a fictionalized
version short stories. They are really well done and that
is now available.
Speaker 2: Did you say Mark that Ireen specialties dealing with demons?
Speaker 1: Yes, well it was, It wasn't the she's kind of
retired right now, but we still look into some cases.
Speaker 2: Occasionally I want she differentiate between a demon and say
a pistol for angry negative human spirit.
Speaker 1: She doesn't usually like me talking like this, but you know,
because she doesn't like labels and terms. But just so
people understand that she is, without a doubt, probably the
most incredibly talented psychic medium I've ever met. And she
has done most of her work. I mean, she did
a lot of work on in person there in the UK,
but her organization Spirit Rescue International helped people literally all
all over the world. Because one of Irene's other specialties
is being a remote viewer, and so using remote viewing
she is able. She's helped people with cases as far
away as New Zealand, well cases here in the States.
She can tune in to a location and see what's there, right,
and as far as telling a demon from a irate
human spirit, which they can be pretty nasty sometimes there
if there are a holes in life, there a holes
in death.
Speaker 4: So but it's their energy.
Speaker 1: It's the energy that these entities or these spirits give off,
and the what we would refer to as demonic gives
off a much more intense negative energy.
Speaker 2: M I found that when I went back to kind
of like uh progression into the into spiritualism and kind
of like mediumistic things. Myself. I was getting problems with
negative entities when I was practicing remote viewing myself. Do
you think that remote viewing somehow opens the door not
only to the good things and kind of like the
interesting things in life, but also opens the possibility of
a door of other things coming in that are not
quite so nice.
Speaker 1: Well, in dealing with anything involving remote viewing or astral traveling,
there is a part of the person, their consciousness or
their spirit so to speak, is like astral traveling in
that you're projecting yourself into another location to view it
or remote work work through it. And you know, it's
like the moth to a flame. You know, they can
these entities can sense your presence, your energy, your light,
and you have to make sure you are properly.
Speaker 3: Protected most prestigures would Irene typically do.
Speaker 1: For protection, she has help from. I don't think we
ever clarified what to call them, but there are angelic
type beings or spirits that she has worked with, other
types of entities that have come through and worked to
protect her and help her during these cases, especially when
doing a clearing of a location, because you know, with
getting rid of a demonic force human spirits, you just
need to coax them to.
Speaker 4: Move on to the other side.
Speaker 1: But demonics need to be pretty much forced out. And
you know, energy cannot be destroyed, and so it's basically
pushing the energy out somewhere else. The demons aren't destroyed.
They can think, go somewhere else or do whatever, but
it's pushing them out of the location, and then you know,
not letting them back in.
Speaker 2: Where do you think they get shoved to. Would it be,
for instance, another realm and another reality, or would it
simply be another location on Earth than bugging someone else's house.
Speaker 1: That's a good question, to be honest, I don't know
if anybody really has that answer. And I've believed that
these demonic and again I use the term loosely because
I'm not using it from a religious perspective, just so
people understand they have a better idea of the type
of negative energies we're talking about. I believe that they
can wander around the earth, they could try to find
someone else. Usually in these cases, sometimes people in a
location have invited it in somehow, either they're playing around
with the occult, or even if somebody is really troubled
they're going through some hard times mental illness maybe or whatnot.
They have that low vibrational energy which attracts these things
because there's a lot of them. I call them paranormal parasites.
They feed on negative energy, like a mosquito. And if
you're putting off the energy that they can feed on
and grow stronger, they will.
Speaker 4: Attach to you or a location.
Speaker 1: But I think they also fliterate and out of our
dimension or our realm, because you know, our physical reality
is just one of many, many, many different realities and planes.
So and I believe they're perfectly capable of going in,
going out whatever wherever their vibrational frequency will allow them
to go. Obviously, they're going to have trouble going to
any place with a higher vibrational frequency because theirs is
so low.
Speaker 2: I mean this that this is a theory of Sorry,
I was just gonna say, there's this theory of lush,
isn't it isn't there these these negative beings feeding off loosh.
Have you heard that's spelled l H.
Speaker 4: No, I haven't heard of lush before.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, So it's it's you could you could look
it up and people listening to this can look it
up as well. I think it's spelled l U c
h E. And the idea is exactly what you said, Mark,
that these negative beings they feed off fear, they feed
off hatred, they feed off I mean, it's something like
a concentration camp historically would be like an absolute feeding
frenzy for negative beings. But yeah, the lush apparently is
what they're feeding off. Neil, you're going to say something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Now, I was just thinking back to, you know, like,
where do these entities go when they've been cast down?
And I just remember back to I mean, I'm not
religious in the slightest, but I kind of always have
debates with religion religionists or apologetics on on on the
Christian side of things. But it's interesting. I think in
the Bible where Jesus cast out a demon or demons
from might be a man or a girl, I can't
remember who it was now. I think in the Late
Editions Bible they actually said, oh, this person suffered from epilepsy.
So it's a bit of a strange thing to have
mentioned in the Bible that someone had epilepsy.
Speaker 1: But then someone's trying to do revision this history there,
because that.
Speaker 4: Is not what the Bible. They didn't know, that's right.
Speaker 3: It someddenly became very medical. Yeah, but apparently Jesus cast
these these demons out and they went into pigs, a
lot of swine, and that then ran and jumped off
a cliff or something.
Speaker 2: And this is why they don't eat pork.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean, pigs are considered in that kind
of region around that time and probably still to this
time as dirty animals, and so they consider he put.
Speaker 1: The big route mud and the filth and yeah, and yeah,
that they're purity laws. Back then especially it was considered unclean.
That's why they couldn't eat pork. Hmm, Not so much
because of demons as just because they rooted around in
the mud. So they figured they were certainly.
Speaker 3: You can get you can get bare black bacon, you
can get smoky bacon, you can get demon flavored bacon.
Well that'd be interesting to put under the grill.
Speaker 1: What if I have a little bit does that have
like a little ghost pepper kick to it?
Speaker 3: So once, I mean, when when Irene's doing her like
remote viewing and she can do it like as far
places as for instance, New Zealand you mentioned, how would
she what she do look at a map and focus
on a target area or coordinates given to her or something.
Speaker 1: Of course, a lot of this goes back a lot
of years, so, but she had ways of tuning into
a location of me if they sent her a picture
of the front of the house or something, and she
could go there and look at it from above. I
even worked on a couple of cases more recently with
her where she's able to see above and then get
whatever feelings she's getting there, then project herself into.
Speaker 3: The house and.
Speaker 1: See what's there, pick up whatever energy's there. And sometimes
it's trying to disguise itself, sometimes it's hiding. There's so
many cases of demonic activity where like a perfect example
would be the Sally House hauntings in Kansas that were
really made famous on TV back in the nineties with
the show's sightings and the family there started seeing this
little girl spirit and this is a very common type
of beginning to this type of haunting. They see a
little girl or child spirit and then of course the
homeowners or the family starts feeling empathy towards the spirit
and not knowing it's a trick, not knowing that these
entities can project themselves as anything they want. But once
you start giving it energy, start sympathizing with it, talking
to it, whatever, you're basically inviting it in to attach
to you your energy, which it starts feeding on. And
this is why if you read most demonic cases, they
start off small and then they slowly start getting bigger
and bigger and bigger, because it's the more they feed,
the more powerful they get.
Speaker 4: Here in our physical.
Speaker 2: Realm, there's there's an analogy with that. Apparently, if you
get two tuning forks and you ding one, the other
one will start resonating to that tuning fork. So in
a similar way, if you kind of imagine a person
as a tuning fork, if they give off a resonance
and they give that resonance to this other being and
they start resonating at the same vibration, they're going to
create a connection that works both positive and negative. So
it can work in a positive way in terms of
working with angelic realms and with God or high consciousness
or guide, but unfortunate they also can work on lower
levels as well.
Speaker 1: The one thing I found fascinating going through all of
Irene's accounts and with dealing with demonic type hauntings is
how different every single one is. You know, there are
people who come in. Actually, what would usually happen in
a lot of these cases the people would call on
a local medium and psychic who didn't know what the
heck they were doing, and they'd stir things up and
make things even worse, and then she be called finally
be the one called, and she'd have to go in
and clean up their mess. And usually by that time
it's much more dangerous because these people did not know
what they were doing and stirred it up. So but
they she would always meditate and tune in to you know,
whoever or whatever works with her and comes up with
what she needs to do for each case. And again
it's in the book. It's fascinating because they're so wildly different.
In one case, she had to work with colors. She
was told work with the colored green for this specific case.
Another case was she was told to come in from
a very Christian oriented perspective, even though she's not religious,
but that's what she had to do in order to
get this spirit, this negative entity out of the house.
So every case is unique and different, and you need
a different approach. So these people who come in doing
their own little stick every time waving sage around. One
of her favorite favorite sayings is, you know what happens
when you burn sage in your house?
Speaker 4: We stink it up. That's all it does.
Speaker 1: But in some cases, though, and this is another thing
people don't understand. A lot of people don't understand burning
stage doesn't do a darn thing. However, your intention is
what gives the energy to it. If you believe in
that stage that it's going to absolutely do the job,
then that's what gives it power.
Speaker 2: A mission't slip as but Shaw would say it was.
Speaker 1: It's it's still you know, inanimate object. Yeah, there's no
spiritual qualities to it. All people have crystals, people have
put salt around the house. You know, if I was
you know, salting a bland meal, maybe, but you know,
doesn't do anything. But again, it's all about intent. What
you put into it is what will make it work.
And again depends on the level of an intent that
you're able to put into it. And in a lot
of cases it needs a lot more power than most
people can get.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's the same thing could be said
for kind of like Holy Water and the Bible. It's
not so much the objects themselves, it's the belief and
the intent. Yeah. Now this is a really interesting one.
Speaker 1: Mark.
Speaker 2: There is a theory, and I came across this a
while back. There was a theory that before humans were
on this Earth, there was another species that was a
demonic race or a race of beings that weren't particularly negative,
but they were just kind of their own beings. And
then humans came along, invaded Earth so to speak, or
took over booted them out, and that's why they've got
such negative feelings and caused chaos amongst humans because they
want to kind of get revenge or get their planet back.
Have you heard across this as.
Speaker 1: I've heard similar stories and in fact, if you want
to look at it from let's say some apocryphal writings
Book of Enoch or whatnot, which talks about the Watchers,
but there's also the stories of the war in Heaven
and Satan basically being jealous of humanity. God creates humans.
Satan was top dog there for a long time, and
when God created humans, they got jealous and they refused
to bow down to humans, which caused the war in
heaven and Lucifer Satan got kicked out, and he took
all of everyone who sided with him with him. Now,
I sometimes have problems with that, because you know, angels
in Heaven's bostaly, good, high vibration. Why they suddenly turned
into demons possessing people and doing all sorts of evil.
Speaker 4: I just, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it's just allegories. I think it's just ways
of trying to explain some of the activity we have.
But to your point, Andrew, what you said makes a
lot of sense in terms of what I look at
as elemental spirits, the ones that have never been incarnated
as human that can be really nasty. But I also
don't think that they're necessarily evil per se. But they
can more like human beings. Some can be good, some
can be bad. They're all still human beings. Even the
old folklore, the fairy stories, the fay, you know, some
could be good, some would could be really nasty to you.
Speaker 4: Even the Middle.
Speaker 1: East, the Gin the exact same way they tried to
separate them by colors, red gins being nasty, blue gins
being I don't know, I forget the color steep, but yeah,
it's every race or every type you know, has varying
levels of how they're going to Behave you.
Speaker 2: Went to the fairy thing on't you?
Speaker 3: Now? Yeah? I was just thinking, Actually, something I read
recently where someone was talking about how they protect them
cells against fairies and the confusion that they can throw out.
And this person, supposedly, if I recall the story correctly,
was with a load of scientists out in the field.
I think this is from a conference I went to
that it was mentioned. I went to this cryptid conference
at the at the weekend, and someone there was talking
about fairies and stuff, and this this person was saying
about how they were getting confused by the fay out
in this location somewhere. So the person who was like
leading this little expedition was leading with some scientific types.
I don't know if they weren't necessarily scientists, but I
kind of got the impression they were more more academic
types or something, you know. And this person said, Okay,
to stop this confusion at what we're getting confused about.
What you've got to do is take your coat, turn
it inside out and then put it on inside out
and all these academics just said, yeah, okay, we'll do that,
and they even though it went against their logic, they
took their coats off turn them inside out to protect
themselves against any confusion of the faith. I don't know.
I mean, someone else could probably write in and tell
me what that means. I'm going to have to look
into that because I have heard it before, but I
can't remember the whole reason. But it kind of turns
the world on its head and you'll fight in the
confusion with confusion or something. Maybe maybe it's something like that.
I don't know how it turned out of the end
for the academics and this person out in the field,
but hopefully it was okay for.
Speaker 1: Maybe they're still out there winding around confused.
Speaker 3: Yeah, with real bad fashion. So with the thing about
the demons is that a lot of these kind of
exorcisms are being performed by members of the Catholic Church,
and I wonder, you know all this stuff, like you
used to talk about the sage that they're coming at
it with the Bible and holy water and stuff like that.
And then Irene had to come and do one particular
kind of scicism for one of them with a very
Christian approach. So I wonder that it's the family that
she was dealing with very Christian orientate for them to
kind of accept.
Speaker 1: Her or the entity, And I believe this was the case.
In this particular case. The entity turned out to be
not so much demonic as what we talked about earlier,
a very ira pissed off human spirit that could still
simulate demonic type activity because they're so negative, But maybe
they were also very religious in life or they believe that,
you know, even if they're bad, they're still afraid of
going to Hell. That's why they're don't cross over and
they continue their bad behavior. And so she used the
religion as a way to get to them the religious practices,
because that's what that entity believed in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a psychological approach, isn't it, bars He It's the.
Speaker 4: Same way of over here, you know, or in the UK.
Speaker 1: What you know, you have a predominantly Christian type nation,
but yet you would not send a Buddhist monk over
here to do an exoricism in a house that the
family practices Christianity.
Speaker 4: And because it's.
Speaker 1: Not probably not going to work, you have to fine
tune your approach based on what you're able, what you're
dealing with, and of course Irene is able to figure
that out not only through the vibration of the entity,
but also tapping in meditating, getting instructions from her guides
or her tag team as I sometimes call them, to
tell her and give her information on how to handle
those those types of entities.
Speaker 2: Where do you think that the color comes in? Like,
because I know somebody that works with colors, and the
colors are green, and yellow and blue are very important,
and they she goes into it quite in depth. But
each each color has a different resonance. So when I
mean's working with the color with a case, what do
you think is going on there?
Speaker 1: I know that in her case she just used whatever
color she was told to use. She didn't fully understand it.
I have done some training as a shamanic practitioner a
few years ago, and one of the healing classes that
we took was all about healing with color and different colors,
having that different vibration and depending on Again, it's the
same thing. It's meditating or in shamanism, it's journeying and
picking up on the information on what is best going
to work towards whatever the illness is, what color will work?
The vibration, because colors are as we see them, are
light energy vibrating at certain frequencies, and that frequency comes
into our retinas, our eyes, and that's the color we see.
Colors themselves really don't exist. It's our brain interpreting frequencies.
Speaker 2: That's interesting.
Speaker 3: It's interesting because they recently announced that they discovered a
new color. I heard, okay, yeah, it's something like a
special type of green. I think it was, but not so.
I don't know, you know, how they suddenly discover a
new color, because I mean they're looking at your prism
with a piece of paper. Oh what's that little one there?
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure, Neil. And if they flashed it up,
we just go green.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, just a very in tone of green, you know,
like dark green, light green or.
Speaker 1: Or I work in photoshop a lot, and when you
come in for selecting a text color or whatever, the
big collar bar things comes up and you can select
the major color you want to work with, whether it's
blue or green or gold yellowish, and then when the
box pops up, there's everything from the white all the
way down to black, and then all the variations of
that color in between, and each one is really a
different color. It's but they're lighter, darker shades. It's so
there's there's unlimited colors. Yeah, that it could be and
putting names to it. Yeah, we're all kind of proteges
a photo sheolp, and we know exactly what you're doing about.
It's when you want to try and pick the same
color again the next day.
Speaker 3: Now, what color was that? Because there's all these little
hashtags of the hashtags. Yeah, yeah, So as I really
ever come off badly as a result of any of
these encounters, or she always got a lot of protection
and being okay.
Speaker 1: Well she I've been talking in the middle of talking
to her. It wasn't really on a case, but there
have been times she's come under psychic attack, something was
attacking her and all of a sudden, Usually at that time,
we were just texting back and forth through Skyte, Microsoft,
and all of a sudden, her everything is starts coming
through jumbled, and I was just able to make out
a couple of things that she was in the middle
of a psychic attack. It's almost like in the middle
of having a seizure. And it took a few minutes
before she started coming back to normal because something was
attacking her at that time. In most of these cases,
she hasn't been personally attacked or she's had protection, but
she sets up that protection for she even goes in,
and she knows she's done the work beforehand. She knows
exactly what kind of protection she's going to need. But
getting hit out of the blue or suddenly, I mean
even at her house, her house which is actually featured
in the because she's talked about the ghosts in her house,
which there's three of them from the turn of the century,
last century that once lived there. But the land where
it sits on some lay lines. There's some portals around,
and she gets a lot of transient stuff coming through,
and every now and then there's this one that comes through.
She calls the stinker because it literally gives off bad odors.
And when I was over there visiting back in twenty
twenty three, when you and I got to meet Neil,
I experienced that myself one day because I walked into
this hallway and there was this kind of sharp ranscest.
The only way I can describe it is it smelled
like marijuana, and that sharp, pungent type smell. It smelled
like it, and yet it didn't. It had its own
odor to it. And I asked her, I go, what
is this smell? And within a few minutes it disappeared.
Speaker 3: It was gone.
Speaker 4: So it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, these things, you know, can come and go, and
different things come in and she just uses whatever protection
is necessary if something. In fact, when I was there,
she had an experience which she really won't tell me
much about where One night, I was in the guest
room and I was lying there and I wear blind
blindfolds because I just don't want to see any light
at all, keeps me awake. And I felt this presence
literally walk up on me along the side of the
bed and was standing right next to me. And I
feel it because my heart starts palpitating. I can just
feel the presence around me. And yet for whatever reason,
I didn't take the blind off, I didn't try to look,
and after a minute or two it went away. Well,
I found out later that night that something had came
into her room and she saw this big shadow in
the corner and she said it felt pretty negative and
she was like keeping her protection up and pretty much
telling it to naf Off. And again she's vague on
the details.
Speaker 4: Sometimes she won't tell me things.
Speaker 2: Why do you think that is?
Speaker 1: Well, she's very private in a lot of ways, but
there's some things in her work she keeps to herself.
I mean, with the book Walking with the Dead, she
goes into a lot of detail about a lot of
different cases and her processes, but they really only scratch
the surface because there's a lot of things that have
happened to her that she keeps to herself, won't talk about,
which I respect that.
Speaker 2: And when she's getting a psychic attack, mark does she
get as well as the spiritual things? Does she get
physical human things such as the black helicopters being followed,
headlights flashing, weird find calls, that kind of stuff physical stuff.
Speaker 4: During a psychic attack.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've only known the one that happened when
I was in the middle of a conversation with her,
So all I can tell you is that's the only
one that I experienced and she's ever told me about.
And it basically it freezes her up. She's unable to talk,
she's unable to move. It's almost like a state of paralysis,
which is I think it's very similar to a form
of sleep. Paralysis, which I have experienced living in this
one house that when I first moved here to New Jersey.
They you can't move, you can't speak, you can't do anything,
and it feels like there's this weight pressing down on
your chest. And I think she was experienced is very
similar to that, but probably in her case much more intense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the reason I asked that is because this was
more in the earlier days of my kind of spiritual
development is that I had exactly those kind of things.
So I was so I'd be doing the love and
light stuff, which would be kind of like the spiritualist
church and the readings and the mediumship and stuff, but
then kind of like aside from that, I'd get kind
of like feelings of presences exactly like you said about
someone coming and standing next to you. But as well
as that, I was getting people flashing their headlights at
me constantly. The black helicopters are real, they do exist,
and they were circling around my house quite a lot,
and I was getting weird phone calls as well. And
this was all kind of like within a cluster of
kind of like a target they called it tis targeted individuals,
a cluster of it is. I don't have it so
much now, thank goodness. But then I don't really do
much remote viewing or kind of deep mediumship now. But
certainly at the beginning I was getting all of this
shit happening.
Speaker 1: Now was the was this type of activity all happening
at once, or you would experience one, then you'd experience another,
like the headlights, then the helicopters, so.
Speaker 2: It would it would have been it was a cluster. So,
for instance, the headlights thing, I would notice that whenever
I'd go out in a car and I'm driving along
people coming towards me, there'd always be, you know, somebody
flashing the headlights at me, or would be driving along
and somebody behind me would flashing their headlights at me,
you know, the kind of like the way you flick
your headlights if you're letting somebody out of a junction
or something like that. It was that kind of thing.
And it was to the point where I was kind
of pulling my car over and thinking like, oh, my
brake lights out? Have I got a headlight that's out?
And then the helicopter things I'd noticed. I'd just be
watching TV. I wasn't even in tune. I wasn't doing readings.
I'd just be watching TV and I'd noticed around about
two o'clock, three o'clock in the morning, these bloody helicopter
buzzing around. And then it got to the point where
sometimes they'd come in the daylight as well as you
can actually see what they look like. And there's a
very distinct difference. I don't know how police helicopters differentiate
between military helicopters in the States, but there's a very
there's a very distinct vibration and noise level between UK
police helicopters and a pat key black helicopters. And I've
seen the black cap actually helicopters. I've seen them and
they do sometimes circle around. This hasn't happened for quite
a while, but it has happened, and it's just it's bizarre.
And then the phone calls as well. The phone calls
were kind of like it was kind of like again
two three o'clock in the morning, and there'd be a
phone call and I'd pick it up. If this is
landline not mobile, would pick it up and there's nobody there,
or they'd just be kind of like a noise that
goes it's just bizarre, bizarre stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I saw an interview recently and I forget, I don't
know who this lady is who's talking about remote viewing
and remote viewing like like bases in an Arctica or
something like that. Something very really hush hush no no.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And while she was remote viewing, all of a sudden,
down this quarter, this this being shadow person, whatever you
want to call it, came racing towards her. It was
giant size and rushed her and literally booted her completely
out of the complex while in astra travel remote viewing.
And she was able to sneak in by just masking
her energy like a cloak, and stuck back in around
this thing and went all the way back into this room,
and there was two men in uniform military men, sitting
in chairs with their eyes closed, and they were obviously
remote viewing, and they were acting like sentries. So that
energy that attacked her was them. So it makes me think,
when you're talking about what happened to you, is when
you're remote viewing, you're tapping into this part of the
astral or these other dimensions, or I mean, however you
want to explain it, that these governments of these entities
are policing, and if they detect your presence, then they
start the harassment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly the market. That's exactly it. And this
is why I was asking whether i Ween had this
because everything that you just said is exactly what I
was thinking.
Speaker 1: I don't know, because she doesn't talk too much about
her own remote viewing, and there was only a couple
of cases where working with me, she really worked on it,
and she's scary accurate at times, but I've never heard
from her talking about ever encountering somebody else trying to
like stop her or push her out or attack her
while she's trying to remote.
Speaker 2: You had she delved into what we'd call hush hush locations,
and if so, is there anything she could share what
she found?
Speaker 4: Not that I'm aware.
Speaker 1: We talked about it a few times, and I really
wanted to look at Dulce, New Mexico myself, but for
whatever reason, we never got around to it. And I
have a sneaking suspicion that she knew not to go
into these places, to not expose herself, and I think
she just kind of covered it up basically, But sometimes
she also has a really short attention span too, so
if she loses interest in something, that's it she walks
away from it.
Speaker 3: With regard to the helicopters, my wife's daughter is quite
interested in helicopters, and so she's downloaded an app which
is something like Helicopter Tracker or something. So we get
quite a few of these last Chinnuch helicopters flying from
Portland over our house and she looks it up on
her phone and says, oh, that's the whatever it is.
So I'm just thinking, if you've got a black helicopter
and he's going to fly outside your house, if you've
got the app, it'd be interesting to sort of see it.
If it sort of shows you one outside your house,
or in fact it's not coming up on the app,
that would be interesting.
Speaker 1: There are there are a lot of different apps that
track traffic, and you know, all air traffic is supposed
to have transponder signals identifying the aircraft and you're able
to track it. The best example I've seen of that
type of activity. I don't know if you've ever watched
the American program A Secret of Skinwalker Ranch where the
scientists and I love the show because again they take
a purely scientific point of view, although they've done some
things a little fringe, but mostly they're trying to collect
data in the science. But in the show, there have
been a few times when they've been buzzed by black
helicopters and they're either Blackhawks or Chinooks or apaches like
you said. And while they're going on, they're out and
standing in these fields watching this, they are radioing back
to their command center where they're one research or the
main tech guy. He has all these big screens up
with the air traffic on there, and they don't appear
they're not transponding, so they don't show up on the apps.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the thing is that they're there. If
they're Black ops and they're kind of part of Black projects,
why would they show up. Of course they're show up.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yep, exactly.
Speaker 1: Right there filming them too, So it's obviously they're real.
Speaker 3: Yeah, followed by a mysterious car. They're probably not likely
to have a genuine car license plate or something like
that on the car as well.
Speaker 1: No, No, I've I've talked with I've interviewed a lot
of people who've had encounters with these types of things.
Men in black or uh, just shadowy government figures and yeah,
there's no nothing identifying that you could track and find
out who these people are that are harassing you.
Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the most bizarre incidents. Mark,
you know who Indigo is, and Neil you know who
Indigo is, don't you? On the show? So Indigo used
to live about And she won't mind me saying this
because she goes public on this and we've spoken about this,
and I've asked her, am I okay kind of talking
about this kind of thing. She says, Yeah, so I
know what an Apache helicopter looks like. They're long and
they're black. They have gun twerets underneath, and they have
like a big radar disc circular kind of thing on
top of the rotor blades. So you've got where the
rotor blades are, you've got kind of like a if
you imagine, kind of like a revels like the Sweet
Revels shape above that, and then right underneath it, you've
got like a gun toe. It's kind of like facing forwards,
and they're long and they're black. There's absolutely no way
you could not know what an Apache is once you
see an Apache. So myself and Indigo have had very
odd things happen. Won't go into everything, but one of
the oddest ones was I had an Apache fly near me,
and funnily enough, I think I just came back from
playing airsoft. So in the UK, similar to the US,
we have airsoft, which is a bit like paintball, but
kind of little plastic pellets. And I'd come back from
that and I was kind of getting all my kits
off and kind of like getting everything kind of sorted
and packed away again, and I noticed out of the window,
I noticed an Apache helicopter and just thought, that's really weird,
because why is there an Apache? And I wasn't doing
anything in terms of like psychic or mediumship or tuning
in a remote being, nothing like that. There was just
a remote, a patched helicopter flying around, and weirdly, I
could see it, having buzzed my house a few times.
I could see it go over into the town next door,
which is where Indigo lives, and I could see it
and again it was just hovering, and I thought to myself,
I bet this is hovering right outside Indigo's place. So
I message her and I say, as I, Indigo, you
haven't got a helicopter above your by any chances. He goes, Yes,
it's been buzzing right right above my house. It's there,
I can see it. So why is this? Why is
this helicopter buzzing my house, flying a couple of miles
away and I could still see it because I could
see a couple of miles away over and then buzzing
over her house as well. What is the deal with that?
Speaker 4: And this.
Speaker 1: Is well, it's way different from the demonic stuff we
were talking about earlier, but it's it's always fascinated me,
like how they how they know things are going on,
how they're able to react so quickly and coordinate like
they do. And I think it's similar to that story
I repeated with the remote viewing. I think that they
have to be doing dedicating resources to basically.
Speaker 3: Spy on people.
Speaker 1: But it's not just through electronics. You know the microphones
that can that can go into a house and you
can listen to a conversation. I think they're using techniques
similar to remote viewing. Yeah, that they target somebody and
they're able to see what's going on and to pat
what's happening, show up at different times, and sometimes they're
very when they're very blatant about it, it means they're
sending a message.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is it. There's there's absolutely no way these
guys wanted to be hidden. This was the message. Yes, Yeah,
I think I think you're right. I think there's a
marrying of what we would call the spiritual and the
etheric dare I say interdimensional possibly alien, possibly demonic, and
the physical reality that we have here. It's not separate.
It's not aliens and ghosts over here, and like the
military industrial complex over here, it's like that. That's what
I think is.
Speaker 1: It's these black ops programs that are these teams. They're
all very interconnected.
Speaker 3: It costs a hell a lot of money to launch chelicopters.
Speaker 2: You know. I n sixteen hundred pounds half an hour.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I've other varying things like ten pounds
in laun chelliculter. It depends maybe on what's what helicopter
it is and where it's got to come to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, probably would. Actually you kind of.
Speaker 3: Think, well, what kind of kind of budget of launching
a helicopter to come and floating outside your house?
Speaker 5: Thing?
Speaker 3: Just go on to the next town for for what
you know, like you're not like a major government Asian
or something.
Speaker 2: You know exactly that that That's exactly what myself and
Indigo were saying. What's the bloody point? It's pathetic. What's
the point, because it's not going to change us. We're
still going to be doing what we're doing. We're still
going to be doing psychic medium ship, We're still going
to be tuning in, We're still going to be talking
about woo woo subjects. It's not going to change us.
So what's the bloody point? We don't get it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we're talking about it, Yeah, publicly.
Speaker 2: As well, exactly, And I'll keep talking about it and
I ain't going to shot up about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I'm just intrigued about shadowy government figures that
work for the shadowy government agencies and how do they
get recruited?
Speaker 2: Now this, now, this could now, this could get us
onto the hat Man. Why is the hat Man that
people see this this infamous kind of like black shadowy figure.
Why why is he not some kind of like spooky
tutor goes. Why is he kind of like a nineteen
fifties B movie kind of FBI type kind of suited,
you know, film noir type men in black. Yeah, exactly
what but why but why vintage? Why why the Theadora hat?
Why why is he looking like something at the fifties.
Speaker 4: No, it's a great question.
Speaker 1: I mean, and they they never change either. Yeah, you know,
for like thirty something year. I mean, go back as
far as the MAFMN Mafman incidents. We're back in the
sixties when the men in Black were first showing up
and they were exactly like that.
Speaker 3: Maybe let's stuck like that. They can't change this, stuck
as that sort of pre programmed image. And it's a
bit like Doctor Who's Tardis Although it was a nineteen
sixties kind of invention police boxes around the UK to
call up the police, and Doctor Who's Tardis was masquerading
as one and something got stuck the comene device or
whatever it's called in the story, and even today appears
this old fashioned police box, you know. So maybe these
men in Black have a kind of similar thing that
comelean device is called stock.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of evidence just in the stories where
eyewitness reports of men in black where they they actually
don't act human. It's like it's like like what you said,
kind of a mask it's a hologram or excuse me,
they're presenting an image. That's what you perceive them as.
And even if they're picked up on video or whatever,
that's what they're surrounded with. That's what they pick up on.
And but yeah, it could be that's it. They're just
stuck with this one program. They don't even think about
updating it because you know, maybe with us and our
culture and everything, they just don't understand it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, hells, if you saw this worthy thing appear in
your room, it says, please stand by men in black updating.
Speaker 2: But do not switch off your vision from their perspective.
I don't. I just don't understand why they wouldn't update
because somebody in a nineteen fifties outfit would look so
out of place. You'd think if you were an intelligent
being and you were kind of trying to infiltate another race,
you would be up to date with what that race
looks like, what it's I mean, it does seem like
it's stuck, but I understand why it's stuck. Why would
they not update it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: This is one of those things, these mysteries that I
think are just a little bit beyond our understanding comprehension.
It's obviously somebody's doing it, but they're reasoning and the
why maybe it's something that we won't be able to understand.
I mean, we won't be able to understand their reasoning.
Speaker 3: Maybe when they come into our reality. They can't pick
a precise time, but they just throw a dart and
they land somewhere in the twentieth century or the twenty
first century, so they've got a kind of close It
generally might fit in with the general theme of that
kind of time realm, but they can't be specific.
Speaker 1: But why did they then show up immediately after let's
say a UFO sighting or even ENCRYPTID sighting, and they
immediately show up knowing all the details of it, even
when that witness has only experienced it all by themselves,
no other witnesses. They never even got a chance to
tell anybody yet, and then all of a sudden, men
in black are knocking on their door or a military
you know, uniform dressed people coming in and threatening them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had a guy that we interviewed a couple
of years ago. I actually met him in Birmingham. That's
why I got him on the show because he's soundly
very interesting. And he said that he had seen a
UFO like he was seventeen, walking the dog or something.
And about ten years later, the men in black showed
of his housing and it was a man and a
woman and you might remember this, only I can't remember.
The guy's name. Is a very nice chat and he
said they actually had photographs of this UFO that he
had seen. But the thing is when they showed in
the photograph, he said, the actual photo looked like it
was taken from his own point of viewers. If it's
through his eyes, you know, that's the weird thing that
was spooky. Huh Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you kind of suggest that they go into people's minds,
that they could take snapshops from what we see?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: It's again, it's high strangeness. It's beyond our ability to explain,
at least for now. And that's the really, this is
something that I'm personally very interested in, is high strangeness.
And our reality, or what we think of his reality, isn't.
Reality is so much more twisted and weird, and it's
our brains can only process things in a certain way,
and that's how or people, you know, never underestimate the
power of denial. They're so focused on what they think
they know, they won't open their eyes up to see
what's going on around them, or at least entertain the
idea that, hey, maybe our version of reality isn't that right.
Speaker 2: Did I tell you about the craziest thing I've ever
experienced in my entire life?
Speaker 4: Nope, but I'm going to hear it.
Speaker 2: This is mental. And if I'm not a Christian, but
if I was a Christian, I'd place my hand on
the Bible and swear this to be true. This is
absolutely mental. One of my favorite subjects is glitches in
reality and the fact that we live in a weird
matrix and some things make sense. This is absolutely true.
So used to go with a group of friends to
the cinema from around about the late nineties to around
about twenty ten ish. There's like a regular group of
us that used to go to the cinema Fridays and Saturdays,
and it usually it was the I could say which
cinema is because it doesn't really matter, Stevenage Cinema in Hertfordshire.
So we would be driving towards Stephen Cinema in a
group of lads. One particular time mark. This was an
evening time. It was summertime, and it was twilight. It
was kind of I suppose still light looking outside now,
it's not quite dark. It's not quite light. It's around
about how it is now. We came up to a
round about on the left hand side. We overtook a
car that was going because it was going really slowly.
This car in front of us was going really slowly
and we wanted to get to our film, so we
overtook it. And we looked to the left as we
were overly taking it, and there was nobody in the
car at all. Now we're not talking about we're not
talking about a midget or a dwarf, or a small
person or a little old lady with their hands like that,
because we were looking into this car. I was looking
into it, and I was thinking, what the hell is
going on? I know it wasn't a left hand drive,
it wasn't a foreign car. There was no passengers. There's
nobody in the front seats. I forget the color of it.
I do forget the color of it, but I do
remember it being like a compact, like a smallish type car.
To this day, I have absolutely zero logical explanation as
to what were what the hell was going on there.
Now we talk about kind of like driverless cars now
kind of likes and this has been since what would
you say, guys twenty fifteen onwards, I don't know when,
kind of Tesla and Musk and everyone, and now they're
kind of like they're kind of like their normal aren't
they driverless cars? They're talking about driverless lorries kind of
like little driverless buggies that deliver things to people. But
this when this happened was around about mid two thousand,
kind of like two thousand and four, two thousand and five,
So this, I would say, this is pre technology that
we're aware of. And even if they were testing something
like a driverless car, why on earth are you taking
out out on the public roads. You know, surely this
should be kind of like a in a scientific laboratory
type situation, not in a roundabout in stevenage, I have
zero explanation, and to this day, first of all, I'll
swear hand on heart that that actually happened exactly how
I described it with witnesses, and I have no explanation
whatsoever as to what the hell was going on with that.
Speaker 4: I've heard stories like that.
Speaker 1: I've seen some videos, but in this day of day
and age of AI and certain special effects, I don't
trust it. But a lot of the videos but I've
heard and counts very similar to that. Really, it's not
exactly like the Irene has an account in her book. Ah,
it's a story that happened just a couple of years
ago and Walking with the Dead, where he and she
had a relative die up in Scotland. So they had
to drive to the airport in Bristol. Because of where
she lives. It's close at the airport, but they had
to leave it like three in the morning or whatever
to get there. So it's very very early dark out,
nobody's on the road, and they get lost and they're
trying to find their way or try to find someplace
they can get directions, but it's like so late that
there's nothing open. And then as they're driving, they see
this man, this old man, walking on the street, and
so Irene just responded instinctively, and she even now thinks
it was kind of strange, but she said to her husband,
you know, maybe we should why don't we ask him?
And so they stopped and they asked him directions. He goes,
I'll show you. Now, this is where reality kind of
takes a wonky turn, and it's funny.
Speaker 4: How people react to it. Without another word.
Speaker 1: The gentleman climbs in the back seat of the car,
not invited. He goes, it's easier if I show you. Yeah,
So he's telling driving. They're like driving for ten minutes,
so go turn here, turn there, and they just get it.
Speaker 4: And when they.
Speaker 1: Get to right before where the airport is, they could see.
He goes, you can let me out here. So he
gets out of the car, doesn't say a word. He
starts walking off. They look at each other like what happened?
Speaker 4: They look, he's gone.
Speaker 1: He's gone, And that was part of it. But later
on they went to the funeral, they got there in time,
they came back home, and then like a week later,
they start thinking about it and they realize how strange
the whole incident was. So they start describing what he
looked like. They both described.
Speaker 4: Him completely different.
Speaker 1: Wow, different clothes, different hairstyle, racial hair. On one he
had a hat and glasses and the one he didn't.
Manchels saw him in one way, she saw he saw
him in another and it's it's wild and then you
stop to think, well, what was it. Was he some
type of angelic being, you know, who showed up at
the last minute to help them get to the airport
and go, you know, a helpful person or who knows,
But he appeared out of thin air, basically that he
was where he was walking at four in the morning,
you know, our for a stroll right when they needed him,
gets in the car and he acts as not acting
normal anyway, and then he just vanishes and they both
see him completely different, different hair color and style, everything
was different.
Speaker 2: So, I mean, one one possibility, and I don't know
if this is the case. If it was some kind
of being that wanted to interact, maybe maybe this being
wasn't really fust too fast how it looked. Maybe it
kind of delved into both of their minds to pluck
a random person I might have seen in the past
on the street and then projected that as a hologram
onto them, because it really wasn't about how he looked
or how they're being looked. It was more about getting
them to the airport kind of thing.
Speaker 1: And this goes off kind of on another subject. But
when you're I found many stories and one of my
theories is these types of spiritual entities. And I'm not
talking about just regular ghosts. Some could be demons or
but even when you're dealing with higher level vibration, angelic
type beings or whatnot. A great example is when people
have a near death experience, okay, and they go to
the other side.
Speaker 4: Of course they're.
Speaker 1: Sent back eventually at some point, but they all describe
everything slightly different.
Speaker 4: It's kind of the same, it's kind of not.
Speaker 1: But then the people they meet, the Christians or people
more influenced by Christianity see Jesus a lot others see
you know, is there Muslim they see Muhammad or their
version of Allah or the people. It's like these things
can tap into your mind and then they present themselves.
The image of themselves is what they want and a
lot of cases it's what you need to see in
order to better communicate their message and for you to
accept it. And I think in the case of what
happened with Irene and her husband, and again this is
only guesswork on my part, but I felt it was
some type of higher level entity. And again because it's
putting up like a mask, they in their minds see
this person, but they're both seeing the person different because
it's how their minds is interpreting the data that's being
broadcast to them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. It's almost going back to
this theory that the universe acts as a mirror, and
you're right in terms of different people from different kind
of like cultures and customs, they will see what they're
expecting to see on the other side of life. It's
it's it's like the universe is custom tailoring reality to
your consciousness as it crosses over. So yeah, if you're
a Jew, you see Moses. If you're Christian, you see Jesus.
If you're Islamic, you see Mohammed, et cetera, et cetera.
If your Buddhist, you see Buddha. So it's it's tailoring
your perception of consciousness to you, to you to your perception.
It's weird, in't they.
Speaker 1: Well, especially if in those near death experiences the people
are coming back into their physical bodies with their monkey
brains and it's the only way that they can interpret
the imagery that they saw over there, because what they
could really see or somebody who really crosses over I
think it's absolutely completely different, and it's beyond description, beyond
our human language, and so they're given a more afterlife
for dummies version of what they're seeing in order for
them to interpret or understand better what they're actually seeing.
Do I think they're actually seeing Jesus, No, but they're
seeing some type of being interacting with them. But if
you see Jesus and he starts telling you things, you're
going to listen. If you're a Christian, Yeah, I'm fuzzy
feet Jesus, yeah, buddy, Jesus. Yeah, yeah, it's it's there's
so much happening on these other levels of consciousness, and
with our brains we can only interpret so much, which
is for those people who do do astral traveling, I'm
curious sometimes that what they may see. If they see
stuff that they literally, and I've heard people say this,
they literally can't put it into words. English language just
won't cut it. Colors, especially, they talk about colors that
we've never seen before, and they had no way of
describing what they were.
Speaker 3: I was reading something recently and it was all to
do with ITC communication and that kind of stuff, and
messages from the other side were coming through ITC or
computers or recorders or something to these researchers and the
people on the other side were talking about a level
of reality between the earth and the spirit world that
they were contacting, which no one was aware of. And
it's like another level where there is another civilization there
that exist, they were saying. And they said, it's not bad,
it's not necessarily good. It's just runs alongside your own
civilized and it's between your world and our world. And
sometimes you will get communications come through it, you know,
sometimes it might cut shop through itc or something, or
it might shop in media, mystical psychic reens or whatever
it may be. I was just wondering, as we're discussing
shadow men and demons and things, maybe that's where these
other things might reside. I don't know, it's a possibility.
Speaker 1: I mean, even science with string theory, and as for
physicists like doctor Mitchi Kakku will talk about the fact
that so far they're able to.
Speaker 4: With their theory, they able.
Speaker 1: To say that there's at least eleven different dimensions. Personally,
I think it's way more than that. It's just we
have only gotten so far. But these dimensions are all
happening at once, right alongside art, and they're right here.
See where I'm sticking my hand out, and this is
where the other dimension and it's just right there. Now
we can't perceive it. We're vibrating at a certain level,
and it's vibrating at a different frequency. It's like tuning
into a radio station or the old time where you
could dial the knob and go through one station to another.
They're all broadcasting simultaneously, but you can only listen to
the station that you tune into. Yea. So, but these
things are all happening at once. The one theory that
really hurts my brain sometimes is the concept of time,
that time doesn't exist, that all time is happening at once.
There is only now. But yet instead of looking at
having past lives or even maybe future lives, they're all
they're not happening in the past, They're happening right now.
Everything is happening right now, which if I think about
it too much, I sometimes I want to cry. It's
so mind bending, the concepts, and it really it's I
think a lot for a lot of people's just too
much for them to think about, and they.
Speaker 2: Would it makes sense in terms of how psychics and
mediums are able to predict the future because in effect,
there is no future. They're tipping, they're tapping into the
information that's already out there of things are happening now.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, there are psychics who maybe
are writing only fifty percent of the time. And it's
not because they're a bad psychic, but it's because while
the past is set in stone for our timeline, okay,
from what I understand, we're constantly shifting timelines. It doesn't
look like it, we don't notice it, but that would
actually explain Mendel effects. We remember certain events differently is
because unknownally we've jumped into another timeline where things are
slightly different and we're just not aware of it.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 4: As far as the.
Speaker 1: Future goes, the possibilities are endless because for every action
there's an opposite reaction, and if any of the variables
changed just a little bit, that may not take place.
Maybe something else will happen. Somebody who predicts a disaster
the world's going to end on June twenty fifth, and
then it doesn't happen, people go, haha, See they were wrong.
Not necessarily, maybe it did end in one of these
other timelines because that's what they're able to see at
the moment. You let's say you remote viewed, okay, and
you're trying to see a future event from right this moment,
right now. You're looking into the future, and you see
a future event between the time that you've remote viewed
it to the time period when the event happens, so
many different things could have happened to alter the direction
of the timeline and miss it, or things happened maybe
weeks later or a year later, and they don't happen
exactly as they were described, but a version of it happened.
And again it's not necessarily that the person just didn't
see it right. It's just that when looking at the future,
there's too many variables that can change. So when you're
looking into the far future, especially, there's no way in
predicting if that's going to really happen or not. In
the short term future, there's less less probability that other
factors will come into play to change the outcome of
those events.
Speaker 3: I don't know if that makes any sense or not.
The weekend those this conference, although it was called a
kryptoid conference, there was a lady there talking about ghosts
and spirits and hauntings and things, and she was saying
that she outrightly rejected the stone tape theory. For those
that want to know what the stone tape theory is,
that's where their ghosts are alleged to be recordings associated
with castles or old buildings and things that somehow.
Speaker 1: That buried underneath water running water, granite, yeah, crystals.
Speaker 3: And somehow it records those events. But she says, I
don't agree with it. And I went up and asked
a question later on or pointed something out her which
I'll tell you about a minute. But she says, the
reason I don't agree with it is because there was
someone in Essex, so I thought, that's near Humany, so
you may know people that might know this story or
not where they saw like a load of cave men
come out somewhere. I'm at some place she never kind
of went into details about. It was a load of caves,
like ghost cave men, which there weren't near any castles
or any stones or anything like that, and they were
cited by people, which is interesting. So she said, that's
why the stone tape theory doesn't work, because there's no
stones around him. I don't know the details of its
psycholic comment too much. But then when it was time
to ask her questions, I went up and sort of
mentioned the fact that the stone tape theory was actually
just a point in a play for Today that was
broadcast on BBC in the nineteen seventies, where the play
in question was about a paranormal research team who were
investigating hauntings, and part of the plot of the play
was talking about theories of ghosts, and this scriptwriter or
something it came up the idea of this stone tape
theory about how ghosts of recoins on the atmosphere or something,
and he wrote the stone tape theory. It is part
of a plot of a play, and then people rolled
with that idea and it became a theory in its
own right, you see, which I think.
Speaker 1: I remember when I first started investigating the paranormal back
in the early two thousands, they didn't call its stone
tape yet, but they were calling it I'm going to
have a brain freeze right now. They were saying pretty
much the same thing. It was like a tape recording
playing over and over it. And I don't buy that either,
because and this is Irene has a couple of experiences
in her book, and we've had many discussions about it.
I think in most cases where people are seeing let's
say someone dressed in period clothes and maybe they're repeating
a pattern or whatnot, and people go, oh, well, it's
just a.
Speaker 4: Recording.
Speaker 1: I can't remember the popular term, but we think it's
actually a time slip, and what's happening is is you're
seeing an actual event, but the conditions are right that
that time period is coming through and bleeding over into
our time.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it happens and you can interact directly with people
and they will interact with you. Other times it does
seem like a recording because no one is aware of it.
On our side, we could see this event taking place.
Even if it's as simple as somebody walking down a corridor.
People think, oh, it's a ghost or it's you know,
one of these memory type ghost events, but it's really
just that time period leading through and you're just actually
watching it. Now you can watch it again and again
because there's no time that event is there and the
conditions are such that it bleeds through. Now. Irene has
again in her book there's this couple of stories, two
stories where.
Speaker 4: One she was at.
Speaker 1: Her son was looking at this one flat he was
gonna buy, and Irene and her husband went over to
see it. And at one point Irene walked upstairs and
by herself, and she walked into this one room and
there's this woman dressed in like nineteen twenties Edwardian's style
made clothing. And when she walked in, the woman turned
and looked at her and both of their jaws dropped
and hit the floor. It's the same time they.
Speaker 4: Saw each other. So the geist and then it.
Speaker 1: Faded, and you know, people go, oh, well, that's just somebody.
If they an old servant, they died, and now they're
going back about their business. They think they're still at work,
and they come up with all these elaborate things which
I just think are a bunch of bull, And in truth,
what it is is too very living, breathing, human beings
living in different time periods actually saw each other through
whatever the conditions are that the time or our idea
of time blended, the veil pulled back, or however you
want to describe it, and they were able to see
each other for a brief few seconds, and they were
added to each other.
Speaker 2: What's interesting there is, Okay, so you've got somebody who's
modern looking at somebody whose vintage. Presumably, if this was
a thing, presumably there'd be some reports of people from
our period seeing somebody from the future in a similar
kind of interaction.
Speaker 1: Well, see, back then, they would look at maybe how
she's dressed, or what she's wearing or whatnot, and not
being able to describe it because it's beyond that person's
comprehension what our society looks like. We now, in the
era of very overly done time travel movies and different periods,
we are able to understand if we're looking at somebody
from a different time period. But another great story in
Irene's book is a case that she and this other
team member with her organization did on site where they
were walking around. They were taking pictures and Irene just
had this pull to go to the loop, opened the door,
and in front of her is a sink in a
big wall mirror. She took a picture directly into the mirror,
and now her other researcher was standing right behind her
trying to look over her shoulder when the picture. When
she went and looked back at the picture, later, and
I'm serious, there's copies in the book and the heck,
if you want to send you copies of what she saw.
There's another person there in between her and her other
research who was literally standing behind her on the like
looking over her shoulder. There is this man who is
dressed in tight fitting black almost like swat here, with
a helmet and a chin strap, and he's holding some
device that we can't figure out what it is in
his right hand, and he's moving. They're looking straight ahead,
and he's moving from left to right between them, and
he looks like he's in the middle of a fast walk,
like he they just caught him in that still frame
as he was going through them. She always used to
call him her time traveler. I'm not sure if it
was a time traveler, maybe from the future, although the
gear he was wearing could kind of fit in our
time period for tactical gear. But the helmet and with
the chin strap very interesting. You can clearly see his face.
He looks as solid as them, and yet he shouldn't
be there.
Speaker 2: He was.
Speaker 1: It's a tiny bathroom, and he looked that he was
walking like fifty feet.
Speaker 2: That's crazy.
Speaker 4: It is.
Speaker 1: It's the strangest picture I've ever seen in my life,
and I've put it through photoshop, I've tried, and you
said it's nail.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I'll say that to you.
Speaker 3: I can say that, yeah, it's.
Speaker 1: It's incredible. And yet we can only try to theorize
what we what she caught, what she saw. But it's
a solid human, just like anybody else, doing something that
had purpose, holding something that we can't really make out,
and impossible for him to fit not only in that
bathroom but between her and her research.
Speaker 3: And there's a guy in a lady's bathroom.
Speaker 1: No, it's a it's a home bathroom. Oh, so expect
something very very tiny, very tiny space. And the way
he's moving, it's looked like he's walking across, you know,
a very large room.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 3: But this is how people used to communicate with black
mirrors and things like that in Egyptian times. Scrying and
that kind of thing has always done reflective surfaces, mirrors
or bowls or anything that had a shiny surface. So
it kind of comes as no surprise, even though it
is a surprise. But it seems like one kind of
possible method of communication is getting an image cast in
a mirror or a reflection of something, which is very interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that happens a lot.
Speaker 1: And again you have to wonder, like, well, the mirror
is just reflecting the light from behind you and maybe
not or maybe not just behind you. There are videos
that people have taken like they're looking in a mirror
and then when they turn away, their image in the
mirror doesn't turn he is staring. Or people who go
up on the side of a mirror, press against the
wall outside of the mirror's range, but another camera focusing
on them. They're nowhere near the mirror that they could
pick up their image. Yet when you look in the mirror,
there they are a couple of feet away, pressed up
against the wall, completely out of the mirror's view, but
the mirror still picks it up.
Speaker 3: How is that possible?
Speaker 1: And you know it could be the mirrors are kind
of windows into some of these other dimensions and realms.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, spooky. So Irene's book, As We Draw to
a Close is called Walking with the Days.
Speaker 1: Walking with the Dead is available in softcover, hardcover and
kindle on Amazon dot com dot co UK. Okay, everybody
can pick that up, but I highly recommend it not
only just because I helped her publish it, but again
reading it and reading the stories and it's just it's
amazing the kind of life that she lived.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 3: But we wish her luck with it and yourself for
publishing it. I mean it's been out a month or two.
Speaker 1: Now, so it's been out about a little over a
month now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, good time to release it, I think. Well,
thank you very much, Mark Johnson, head of the Paranormal
UK radio network, along with I'm not.
Speaker 1: The hair, I mean, Irene owns it and Andy Mercer
is our station manager and he does a lot of
work on it, and I do a little bit, but
I'm I don't I don't run it.
Speaker 4: I just want to clarify.
Speaker 3: That, Okay, cool, all right, So thank you very much
anyway from Mark for joining us. Any final words Andy
before we depart.
Speaker 2: That is a really fascinating talk. I hope people find
it as interesting as we do. And it'd be nice
to do around two at some point with Mark.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, Maybe there'll be a sequel, a sequel book.
Speaker 4: I'd be happy to come back.
Speaker 3: Walking with more Dad or something or running from the Dead.
I think in my case, there you go all right,
thank you very much. Mark. You have been listening and
watching the Paranormal Peep Show on the Paranormal UK Radio network,
and stay tuned for more programs on the network coming
up shortly and we'll see you next month.
Speaker 4: Good night, good night,