Speaker 1: All right, what's going on drive time on a Wednesday afternoon.
Speaker 1: Sunny and a little bit warmer today than it has
Speaker 1: been over the past seventy two hours here in downtown
Speaker 1: saw Lake City, Utah.
Speaker 2: It's at our Broadway.
Speaker 1: Media Studios, and as it is every single day, it's
Speaker 1: gonna have you along for the ride. Spence check, it's
Speaker 1: beyond the mike. That's Porter Larson behind the glass. Today
Speaker 1: we have a short show for you guys, a bit
Speaker 1: of a sprint instead of our four hour typical marathon.
Speaker 1: This afternoon, we're gonna make way for Utah basketball coming
Speaker 1: up at about three thirty. You'll hear a pregame coverage
Speaker 1: between the Uts and the Houston Cougars. Houston's one of
Speaker 1: the best teams in the country, a national championship contender,
Speaker 1: a Final four contender, certainly, so we'll get into that
Speaker 1: game on the program today as we will bring that
Speaker 1: to you early. A lot to do between now and then.
Speaker 1: Know Utah Jazz made a trade. It's weird these pieces
Speaker 1: of breaking news have come down, like with two seconds
Speaker 1: left in the show, So try to do what you
Speaker 1: can and make sense of the news that came down.
Speaker 1: But we'll talk about it today. The Jazz made a
Speaker 1: trade with the Phoenix Suns. What exactly does it mean,
Speaker 1: why would they do it, and what could be next
Speaker 1: for quite frankly both teams. Obviously, the trade deadline is
Speaker 1: coming up February the sixth, That is right around the corner,
Speaker 1: and a lot of conversations about trades the Jazz could
Speaker 1: be involved in. So we'll give you some thoughts on
Speaker 1: that today on the program. One day closer to conference
Speaker 1: Championships Sunday in Pro football, don't forget we are your
Speaker 1: home of the biggest and best football events, whether it's
Speaker 1: college or pro. So you're gonna hear the games on
Speaker 1: our radio station coming up on Sunday for the right
Speaker 1: to go to the Super Bowl. Coming up, it's the
Speaker 1: Commanders and the Eagles live in Philipdelphia, starting at one
Speaker 1: o'clock Mountain Toime on Fox. Billy's a six point five
Speaker 1: point favorite in that game. The line hasn't moved much.
Speaker 1: The line moved towards Kansas City yesterday and the Chiefs
Speaker 1: are now two point favorite of the Buffalo Bills at Arrowhead.
Speaker 1: For the second straight year, those two teams play for
Speaker 1: the AFC Championship. So one day closer, of course to
Speaker 1: the weekend and too little pro football. Utah Jazz are
Speaker 1: in action tonight, taking on one of, if not the
Speaker 1: best teams in the entire NBA Oklahoma City six o'clock
Speaker 1: Mountain times start, So you get a little Utah basketball
Speaker 1: tonight or this afternoon at four o'clock against Houston, you'll
Speaker 1: get a little Utah OKC as well. And we've got
Speaker 1: a lot to do on the program between now and
Speaker 1: three twenty five.
Speaker 2: The New York Jets avoy coach.
Speaker 1: Definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over
Speaker 1: again and expecting different results. Aaron Glenn seems like a
Speaker 1: good dude, played for the Jets in the nineties. In
Speaker 1: other first time head coach with a defensive background, and
Speaker 1: so far that has not gone well. Could Pete Carroll
Speaker 1: be heading to coach the Raiders? A lot of rumors
Speaker 1: in that direction too. So we're gonna bring in Zach
Speaker 1: Harper today NBA Daily assist I. We'll talk about what
Speaker 1: the Jazz did with the Suns, what could be next
Speaker 1: for Utah And it's Jimmy Butler on his way to
Speaker 1: Phoenix now, so we'll bring in Zach Harper Neil Smith
Speaker 1: stops by. We talked to Neil every week about the
Speaker 1: NHL and the Utah Hockey Club. Utah Hockey Club is
Speaker 1: off tonight. They're back at action tomorrow on the road.
Speaker 1: Just completing a seven game homestand and only got two
Speaker 1: wins there. So Minnesota good team. We'll take on Utah tomorrow.
Speaker 1: That game is on ESPN Plus and also Hulu as
Speaker 1: the NHL also kind of makes their way into these
Speaker 1: streaming slash linear broadcast situation. So Quick Show ninety minutes
Speaker 1: to day on Wednesday, Zach Harper, Neil Smith, Me Spence
Speaker 1: check it to all of you, the great listeners, and
Speaker 1: that guy Porter Larson breaking news as we ended the show.
Speaker 1: It seems like there's I don't know what it's been
Speaker 1: over the past few weeks, like the title nine ruling
Speaker 1: came down as we were finishing the show. Jazz made
Speaker 1: a trade a lot of conversation about it. We were
Speaker 1: ending the show as the news came down. Where are
Speaker 1: you at with it today after kind of digesting it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, as you mentioned, awkward timing for us on the
Speaker 3: end of the shows lately, and that's part of the
Speaker 3: afternoon drive deal usually, you know, a lot of times
Speaker 3: you're ending the show, games are in progress, or people
Speaker 3: are news dumping things at five pm as we hang up.
Speaker 3: But you know, I like how you laid it out
Speaker 3: a little bit in cross talk with Scott. It's something
Speaker 3: that of course, when you're trading for picks, when you're
Speaker 3: trading for draft capital, and you're trading picks that you
Speaker 3: don't necessarily know where they're going to land, Spence, you're
Speaker 3: you're taking a gamble. It's a gamble, but it's a
Speaker 3: gamble that could move the Jazz up into the drafts,
Speaker 3: and I think it's a gamble worthwhile because of the
Speaker 3: talent in the top end of NBA drafts. In today's game,
Speaker 3: it's different story Spence than fifteen twenty years ago. And
Speaker 3: I know there's some pushback still to that, but just
Speaker 3: the sports science of yeah, maybe the demeanors of players
Speaker 3: is different, but we're talking about just athletic prospects. They're
Speaker 3: better now than they've ever been. Go look at the
Speaker 3: top five in the draft a few years ago with
Speaker 3: Anthony Edwards, and I mean, if you miss on a
Speaker 3: top five pick, there's something wrong. Whereas fifteen years ago,
Speaker 3: sometimes it was hard you know there's one standout or two.
Speaker 3: It's different now, and I like moving up getting some
Speaker 3: draft capital that could be at the top end of
Speaker 3: the NBA draft rather than the bottom half, because I
Speaker 3: do think that the talent is it's just different, and
Speaker 3: the Jazz are looking to capitalize on that.
Speaker 1: Unprotected picks and pro basketball are like unicorns. So I think,
Speaker 1: you know, I think most people agree that the Jazz
Speaker 1: did something that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2: Now only time will tell if it works.
Speaker 1: But we'll get into it as we have a good
Speaker 1: NBA guest on the show today. But before Zach Harper
Speaker 1: joins us courtousy of our good friends, Standard Restaurants supply
Speaker 1: your one stop shop for all your tailgate needs.
Speaker 2: On a short Wednesday show, It's time now for your
Speaker 2: opening tip.
Speaker 4: Welcome to the Drive with Spence Check. It's on Utah's
Speaker 4: number one Sports Talk Now into the studio of ESPN
Speaker 4: seven hundred to set the scene for the show. The
Speaker 4: opening tip of the Drive is brought to you by
Speaker 4: Standard Restaurants, supply your one stop shop to build the
Speaker 4: best tailgate in town. Standard Restaurants Supply thirty five hundred
Speaker 4: Southwest Temple.
Speaker 2: NBA Trade deadline is right around the corner.
Speaker 1: It is on February the sixth, so just about two
Speaker 1: weeks away or so ish thereabouts, and the Utah Jazz
Speaker 1: a rumor to be part of a bunch of potential
Speaker 1: hypothetical deals.
Speaker 2: Of course, those are only rumors.
Speaker 1: We can only talk about what we know and what's
Speaker 1: already gone down. So as we were saying goodnight last night,
Speaker 1: in the five o'clock hour breaking new Shamsharani, ESPN, the
Speaker 1: Phoenix Suns receive a twenty twenty five first round pick
Speaker 1: from the Jazz in addition to a twenty twenty seven
Speaker 1: first round pick and a twenty twenty nine first round pick.
Speaker 1: In exchange, Utah receives a twenty thirty one first round
Speaker 1: pick from the Suns. On the surface, it's like what
Speaker 1: exactly are.
Speaker 2: We doing here? But when you dig into it, it
Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: So in all three drafts twenty five, twenty seven, and
Speaker 1: twenty nine, the picks the Suns receive will be the
Speaker 1: least favorable of Utah, Minnesota, and Cleveland. Okay, that's the
Speaker 1: deal with all three of these picks and all three
Speaker 1: of these drafts. If you're Danny Ainge, if you're justin Zannik.
Speaker 1: If you're part of the Jazz front office, you've simply
Speaker 1: done your calculation on mostly Cleveland and Minnesota a little bit.
Speaker 1: But Minnesota is getting a little bit older, and even
Speaker 1: that pick this year for the Jazz could be late lottery.
Speaker 1: The Cleveland Cavaliers pick this year might be the last
Speaker 1: pick in the first round, and Cleveland has a lot
Speaker 1: of good young players who you know. Nobody knows how
Speaker 1: things could change during the course of any offseason. But
Speaker 1: this is the Jazz doing their calculation on the Cavs
Speaker 1: mostly and saying we believe on all three of these
Speaker 1: in all three of these draft cycles twenty five, twenty seven,
Speaker 1: and twenty nine, we believe the least favorable of these
Speaker 1: three picks are most likely going to be late first
Speaker 1: round twenty five to thirty thereabouts. So we're fine giving
Speaker 1: away three picks that are probably going to be twenty.
Speaker 2: Five to thirty.
Speaker 1: That's our calculation to Phoenix in exchange for an unprotected
Speaker 1: pick of theirs in twenty thirty one. Unprotected picks are
Speaker 1: like unicorns and pro basketball. You can grab one, you
Speaker 1: got to do it, and the Jazz have probably done
Speaker 1: their calculation on the Phoenix Suns, and you understand that
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant at thirty six and Bradley Beal at thirty
Speaker 1: one and Devin Booker in his late twenties, there's a
Speaker 1: good chance that this pick that's unprotected from Phoenix in
Speaker 1: twenty thirty one comes during a year where they're probably
Speaker 1: going to need to be pivoting or maybe even fall
Speaker 1: on rebuilding the way the Jazz are now.
Speaker 2: Is that a guarantee? Of course it's not.
Speaker 1: Matt Eshbia, who just bought that team, seems to be
Speaker 1: a very willing owner as far as spending money, and
Speaker 1: he's probably gonna do everything he can to make sure
Speaker 1: the Suns are as competitive as they can be every
Speaker 1: single year. But that's not a guarantee. And the NBA
Speaker 1: is cyclical. We're seeing it here right now. Sometimes you're up,
Speaker 1: sometimes you're down. Sometimes you're trying to get back up
Speaker 1: as much as you know, as quick as you can.
Speaker 2: But it's not that easy to do.
Speaker 1: And the Suns have found themselves in scenarios similar to
Speaker 1: where the Jazz find themselves now. Your veteran players either
Speaker 1: a jon or they want to get paid and they
Speaker 1: move on or something happens in the locker room and
Speaker 1: you just say to pivot kind of the way that
Speaker 1: it happened here with Gobert and Mitchell.
Speaker 2: Things happen all the time.
Speaker 1: But there's a really good chance the Jazz just traded
Speaker 1: three late first round picks for an unprotected draft asset
Speaker 1: in twenty thirty one. That might be really, really special.
Speaker 1: And if you're the Jazz, you have to lean in
Speaker 1: on every possible scenario to try to finally and you
Speaker 1: need lady luck the way the Jazz haven't had Lady
Speaker 1: luck yet. Nine lottery appearances, the Jazz have never moved up.
Speaker 1: At some point that has to change, and you give
Speaker 1: yourself as many options as possible. You give yourself as
Speaker 1: the best odds possible to finally land that pick that
Speaker 1: could change things. And that's what makes a process like
Speaker 1: this worth it. The problem is when you look at
Speaker 1: processes like this around the league. The Philadelphia seventy six
Speaker 1: or did the very same thing. It took them five
Speaker 1: full years to finally get the pick in the player
Speaker 1: that changed their roster and their franchise, and that was
Speaker 1: Joe LMB. Now, obviously he hasn't been able to stay
Speaker 1: healthy This is not a Philadelphia seventy six or topic.
Speaker 2: You get the gist. This is all about.
Speaker 1: Trying to find that one pick that could finally be
Speaker 1: the pick that changes the Jazz organization because in the
Speaker 1: past they've had to rely on savvy draft and talent
Speaker 1: evaluation in spots in the draft where you don't typically
Speaker 1: get great players. Late lottery Mitchell, late first round, Go Bear,
Speaker 1: John and Carl both mid to late first round picks.
Speaker 2: You get the deal. Carolinko second round pick.
Speaker 1: The only like top five pick they've really developed in
Speaker 1: the modern day of the Jazz has been Darren and
Speaker 1: they traded him because he and Jerry got loose. Find
Speaker 1: the pick that ends up to be the Victor Wembanyama,
Speaker 1: find the pick that ends up to be the Cooper Flag,
Speaker 1: find the pick that ends up to be the aj Debantsa,
Speaker 1: and then we're on our way. But until then, you're
Speaker 1: just you're spinning your wheels. You're running around one of
Speaker 1: those mouse wheels and just you know, every single year
Speaker 1: you're winning thirty thirty five games in drafted eight, nine,
Speaker 1: ten to eleven. That's the way to find Keante George.
Speaker 1: That's the way to find Taylor Hendrix. That's the way
Speaker 1: to find real, nice role players. And we're simply playing
Speaker 1: the percentages because of course there are exceptions. There are
Speaker 1: late lottery picks that turn into be some of the
Speaker 1: best picks that we've ever seen. There's the best player
Speaker 1: in the world right now was drafted in the second round.
Speaker 1: It's not the only way to do this, but it's
Speaker 1: giving yourself the best chance to do it juxtaposed to
Speaker 1: the way you've done it lately, because you have to
Speaker 1: base this on the way teams have been built and
Speaker 1: team you know, great championship teams draft, they develop, and
Speaker 1: they retain. But championship teams have one of those generational
Speaker 1: pieces and that's what the Jazz don't have. And that's
Speaker 1: quite frankly, what the Jazz haven't had for a long
Speaker 1: long time, depending on on how you analyze Donovan right now,
Speaker 1: this is one of the rare deals in pro basketball.
Speaker 2: That I get why Phoenix does it.
Speaker 1: Phoenix, prior to this trade had one draft asset to
Speaker 1: trade and it was a second round pick because they
Speaker 1: went all in to get Durant, Booker and Beale together.
Speaker 1: Now Phoenix has three first round picks. They can either
Speaker 1: utilize to add talent via the draft. That's affordable because
Speaker 1: they paid a lot of money to their three big stars.
Speaker 1: The draft is a great way to add talent without
Speaker 1: having to pay top dollar. Yet, because they're on rookie
Speaker 1: deals for three years with a fourth year, that's a
Speaker 1: team option. So Phoenix has the chance to use these
Speaker 1: picks to add affordable young talent. Or they now have
Speaker 1: something interesting to call Miami about if they want to
Speaker 1: get Jimmy Butler.
Speaker 2: The Jimmy Butler deal is probably going to be complicated.
Speaker 1: The Jazz actually could be involved because I think Miami
Speaker 1: and Phoenix are going to need a third or fourth
Speaker 1: team for salary implications. Think about when the Jazz trader
Speaker 1: for Russell Westbrook and Dereck Rose and waived them. The
Speaker 1: Jazz could be a team that absorbs a contract and
Speaker 1: they could say, Okay, we'll take the player and the
Speaker 1: player's contract, but you got to send a first round
Speaker 1: pick with that player, right. I mean, the Jazz are
Speaker 1: actually in a really, really good spot. The problem is
Speaker 1: all this is hypothetical because if we get to twenty
Speaker 1: thirty one and Phoenix wins fifty five games and it's
Speaker 1: the twenty sixth pick.
Speaker 2: This was a bad move.
Speaker 1: We won't know until twenty thirty one, is what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: and so strapping for the next six years. It doesn't
Speaker 1: change anything for right now. It just puts the Jazz
Speaker 1: once again in a really good spot hypothetically down the road.
Speaker 1: If things go their way for once, if the ping
Speaker 1: pong balls bounce their way for once, if Lady Luck
Speaker 1: shines on the Jazz for once, then we'll look back
Speaker 1: on deals like this and say, Okay, it worked right.
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, it's one of those deals where
Speaker 1: if you're Phoenix, you do it. If you're Utah, you
Speaker 1: do it, and I get it. We'll bring in Zach
Speaker 1: Harper coming up on the other side, and continue to
Speaker 1: kind of break this stuff down.
Speaker 2: Do a little Utah Hockey Club with Neil Smith.
Speaker 1: Later on we say good afternoon at about three twenty
Speaker 1: five in time for Utah Basketball. I'm too tired today
Speaker 1: to even fight it, I really am. We're on night
Speaker 1: three of Little Duke. Don't do that, Okay, don't don't
Speaker 1: force the issue. I'm just saying, we're on night three
Speaker 1: of the station mascot Duke a little.
Speaker 2: Stomach issues, so He's waking.
Speaker 1: Me up every two hours, which I appreciate because I'd
Speaker 1: rather have him go outside to go to the bathroom.
Speaker 1: But I'm too tired to fight the pitbull thing today.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna embrace embrace it. Yeah, but don't sing.
Speaker 1: Don't sing pit bull on air. That's embarrassing for all
Speaker 1: of us. We're playing pit bull because Zach Harper joins us.
Speaker 1: By the way, just real quick, before I forget, we
Speaker 1: have the number now, Notre Dame Ohio State twenty two
Speaker 1: point one million viewers. That's three million less than Michigan
Speaker 1: Washington last year. And it's got to be Monday night,
Speaker 1: January twentieth as opposed to January eighth last year. So
Speaker 1: kind of interesting stuff. Zach Harper, Happy Wednesday, sir.
Speaker 2: How are you?
Speaker 5: I mean pit bull was playing on them? Excellent?
Speaker 2: Do you watch college football?
Speaker 5: Though? I do, But I gotta be honest. I had
Speaker 5: no interest in Ohio State versus Notre Dame. But once
Speaker 5: it got to that point, I just for whatever reason,
Speaker 5: and it's you know, I don't really have a reason
Speaker 5: per se. I just wasn't interested in either side winning.
Speaker 1: Do you think it had anything to do with the
Speaker 1: fact that the CFP Playoffs started seven years ago. I mean, like, yeah, dude,
Speaker 1: Like last year, the final was on January eighth, and
Speaker 1: it drew more eyes have. I think a a lot
Speaker 1: of people, like you may have just been over it
Speaker 1: because I think it just was kind of extended out
Speaker 1: way too long.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I you know, it's it's tough in a
Speaker 5: tournament format, and I do want to give it a
Speaker 5: couple of years to see if this is the right way.
Speaker 5: But it it's funny, like, I know this is a
Speaker 5: bad criticism, but it kind of felt like there were
Speaker 5: too many teams in it. To me. I was good
Speaker 5: at just four, Like I really was. I was good
Speaker 5: at just four. And then they're like, we're doing it twelve,
Speaker 5: all right, whatever, let's check it out. And then yeah,
Speaker 5: maybe it was just it. It was two months of
Speaker 5: college football playoff and I, yeah, I guess I just got,
Speaker 5: you know, a little, a little tired of it.
Speaker 1: What's the pie chart look like for the Zach Harper
Speaker 1: sports consumption?
Speaker 2: How much of it is pro basketball?
Speaker 5: Oh? Man, I mean it's a lot. Like I don't
Speaker 5: even really watch college anymore. I used to try to
Speaker 5: keep up with as much college as possible, and I
Speaker 5: just I can't do it anymore. Yeah, for pro sports,
Speaker 5: it's probably eighty five percent NBA, ten percent NFL. You know,
Speaker 5: we'll sprinkle some baseball and there, we'll sprinkle a little
Speaker 5: bit of college here and there. My dad's a big
Speaker 5: Georgia Bulldogs fan, so I will watch Georgia games and
Speaker 5: talk with him about it, just out of you know,
Speaker 5: out of necessity. But but yeah, like I mean, it's
Speaker 5: it's pretty much all NBA, all the time.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, fair enough, So Zach, the Jazz made a
Speaker 1: blockbuster move. They did well, they did not make a
Speaker 1: blockbuster trade, but they made a trade. And it was
Speaker 1: the news broke right as I was signing off. So
Speaker 1: I was trying to drink through a fire hose. And
Speaker 1: now that you know, I've been able to kind of
Speaker 1: read about it and listen to people break it down
Speaker 1: to you, you get why they do it.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 1: There's no guarantees, right, but they obviously have done their
Speaker 1: calculation on probably Cleveland mainly, and they've said, okay, we
Speaker 1: think this year that might be the thirtieth pick. Two
Speaker 1: years it's probably still late first round. Who knows, in
Speaker 1: four years, but Cleveland's good, they're young, they're well coach,
Speaker 1: so I guess Zach, they're like, all right, we'll give
Speaker 1: Phoenix three picks, we believe, or late first rounders for
Speaker 1: the chance that in twenty thirty one they're in a
Speaker 1: pivot situation or a rebuild situation. We get an unprotected
Speaker 1: first which is kind of like a unicorn these days.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, I mean you don't get a lot of those.
Speaker 5: And there's been a lot of teams recently who are
Speaker 5: kind of just banking on Phoenix is not going to
Speaker 5: figure this out long term, right, Like you've seen teams
Speaker 5: kind of poach them some first round picks future first
Speaker 5: out of them over the last year or two. And
Speaker 5: I think it's this belief, like I was, I was
Speaker 5: thinking about it earlier today, and I think I've come
Speaker 5: to the realization that if you made me a billionaire
Speaker 5: and I bought a team, I would run it the
Speaker 5: exact same way that Manaspiel is just reckless decisions. Who
Speaker 5: cares about the future. Like, I just want to try
Speaker 5: to win now. I don't really know how to do that,
Speaker 5: but I'm gonna try. And like, look, I got a
Speaker 5: couple of really good players, Let's try to get another
Speaker 5: player who cares what the collective bargaining rules are. It
Speaker 5: does feel like a very impulsive person and I think
Speaker 5: I think people around the league see the spot that
Speaker 5: the Suns are in, see the kind of urgency or
Speaker 5: desperation that they seem to be operating with, and and
Speaker 5: in theory, like they didn't make a bad trade, right
Speaker 5: that you acquire three other first round picks in order
Speaker 5: to to you know, kind of restock the treasure chest
Speaker 5: of what you might have to. You know, you got
Speaker 5: to attach a pick. If you're getting rid of Nurkic,
Speaker 5: you're gonna need picks for a potential Jimmy Butler trade.
Speaker 5: If you can get Bradley Beale to agree to it.
Speaker 5: You know, there's logic behind it. But ultimately, I think
Speaker 5: people look at the Sun's team around the league and
Speaker 5: they think, oh, this team's gonna be a disaster, just
Speaker 5: in terms of financials, you know what they'll be able
Speaker 5: to sustain, you know, three years from now. I don't
Speaker 5: think they're gonna recover by six years from now. So
Speaker 5: I actually think in terms of what what Danny and
Speaker 5: everybody did yesterday, I think it's a brilliant gamble by
Speaker 5: them because I'm with you like that Cav's pick isn't
Speaker 5: gonna be any good, Like you still get good players there,
Speaker 5: but it's not gonna be any good. The Wolves pick
Speaker 5: might end up being good at twenty twenty nine. You know,
Speaker 5: you never know what's gonna happen. But for the most part,
Speaker 5: they said, I don't think Peni's gonna happen in twenty
Speaker 5: thirty one, and you're gonna give us an unprotected pick
Speaker 5: like those are Those are the kind of moves that
Speaker 5: down the road you look back and you're like, I
Speaker 5: cannot believe somebody let the Jazz get that pick.
Speaker 1: And I think, Zach, that's what you have to do.
Speaker 1: If you're age in Zank. You know, I just don't
Speaker 1: think there's any other course. And you know, as you know,
Speaker 1: because we've talked to you about this, I honestly and
Speaker 1: I don't have anything to confirm this. This is just
Speaker 1: what I believe in my heart, Zach' So I'm expressing
Speaker 1: this to you.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: I really believe that Danny Ainge was half joking and
Speaker 1: almost trolling people last off season after the season ended,
Speaker 1: so his first media when he dropped the Big Game
Speaker 1: hunting line. I really think that there was a little
Speaker 1: trolley in there. I think he was messing with people.
Speaker 1: And my feel is justin Zanik went, why would you
Speaker 1: say that? And I don't like because they're they're their
Speaker 1: first media prior to this year. Xanik was a little
Speaker 1: salty and he said, look, we tried. We tried to
Speaker 1: go get really good players. We called teams. The rumors
Speaker 1: around here where somebody in that front office was like, hey,
Speaker 1: let's sign Paul George and trade for mckel bridges.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, go do that. If you can
Speaker 2: do that, go do that.
Speaker 1: You know, but believe in in your dreams and follow
Speaker 1: them and may God grant, you know, guide you on
Speaker 1: your quest. There was no way they were going to
Speaker 1: be able to do that, but I'm sure they called
Speaker 1: and they realized that they're not right now in a
Speaker 1: position to bring in top shelf talent.
Speaker 2: Okay, how do we do that.
Speaker 1: We have to get a top three pick and hopefully
Speaker 1: number one, because they've been drafting late lottery, mid first
Speaker 1: round and you can get good players and they have.
Speaker 1: But when you're building a roster, you simply have to
Speaker 1: give yourself as many options as possible at one of
Speaker 1: the special picks that turns into the special player that
Speaker 1: actually changes your market.
Speaker 2: Can you get that in the first round?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can mid first round like a Giannis, But
Speaker 1: the best chance to get that is a top three pick.
Speaker 5: It just is Yeah, historically, that's that's where it happens
Speaker 5: the most, right, Like, And it doesn't mean there are
Speaker 5: an exception to the rule. Doesn't mean you can't hit
Speaker 5: a home run by getting the ninth pick in a
Speaker 5: couple of years in a row. But but yeah, this
Speaker 5: is the way you do it. Like I almost wonder
Speaker 5: there are two things about that whole idea of Danny
Speaker 5: trolling everybody, which I love. Is one. Isn't it just
Speaker 5: fun to say if you're Danny Ainge going to the
Speaker 5: off season, you throw a wrench into everything by going, oh,
Speaker 5: by the way, we're going big game hunting right this summer, Like,
Speaker 5: it's just fun to say. And it is something that
Speaker 5: gets an excitement to a fan base that I don't
Speaker 5: know how, Like it's not that Jazz fans are down
Speaker 5: on the franchise, but it's hard to get excited when
Speaker 5: you are picking ninth and you're just kind of you know,
Speaker 5: you're seeing all these other options, like you missed out
Speaker 5: on Wenby because of not taking all this stuff like,
Speaker 5: so I do think it kind of galvanizes a fan
Speaker 5: base into like a little more excitement going into an
Speaker 5: off season. I think that's a smart pr move. The
Speaker 5: other part of it makes me wonder. You know, he's
Speaker 5: got a real weird history with pat Riley, and pat
Speaker 5: Riley's always talked about like going whale hunting when it
Speaker 5: comes to going and getting guys. I almost just wonder
Speaker 5: if he threw it out there just as a way
Speaker 5: of trolling power, Like it wouldn't shock me if he
Speaker 5: just was trolling pat Riley in that moment.
Speaker 1: Bravo. That's three levels deeper than my mind was going. Zach,
Speaker 1: well done. And on the Phoenix side, as you kind
Speaker 1: of outlined, you know, they've allocated so much of their
Speaker 1: cap to those three guys, this gives them. I'll use
Speaker 1: even though this is going to drive me crazy because
Speaker 1: everybody's saying it, but I'll use the buzzword optionality because
Speaker 1: I guess we have to now if you're covering the
Speaker 1: league right so exactly, so, Yes, I belong to the
Speaker 1: church of covering the league. So I'll use it optionality
Speaker 1: so they can either add three young players on cheap
Speaker 1: contracts or do you think this opens up a legitimate
Speaker 1: pathway to Jimmy Butler or something bigger.
Speaker 5: I swear, I'm not trying to be mean here. What
Speaker 5: a stupid word.
Speaker 2: I can't stand it. And every like everybody.
Speaker 1: And the goobs that don't know anything are the ones
Speaker 1: that can like this gives them a ton of optionality.
Speaker 1: I'm like a but again, I guess, yeah.
Speaker 5: You have to, you have to. But yeah, Like I mean,
Speaker 5: I think that this is it's it's not about cheap
Speaker 5: contracts in the future to help round it. It's about
Speaker 5: going after Jimmy Butler. That's that's all this is. Like
Speaker 5: that is the home run play. That is the thing
Speaker 5: that could create enough to get them back on track.
Speaker 5: You know, I think they're still chasing that nine and
Speaker 5: two start where it looks like, oh, this team's figured
Speaker 5: it out. You know, I think there's a lot going
Speaker 5: on there. I think Ishbia is a very impulsive owner
Speaker 5: and and he has created a work environment. This is
Speaker 5: just you know, this is just me outside looking in.
Speaker 5: But prior to him owning the team, it felt like
Speaker 5: James Jones was a pretty pragmatic, smart front office guy,
Speaker 5: and since then they've been wildly reckless in my opinion.
Speaker 5: Now I'm here for it. I think I'm here for
Speaker 5: taking big swings. I think it's a good idea. But
Speaker 5: this is about getting Jimmy Butler and I like last
Speaker 5: night as this deal you know, this deal goes down yesterday,
Speaker 5: and talking about it with certain people and you know,
Speaker 5: trying to get some understanding from behind the scenes of
Speaker 5: certain things going on. And so I just tried to
Speaker 5: work out a three, four or five team deal to
Speaker 5: get deal to Milwaukee, which has been rumored, to get
Speaker 5: Butler to Phoenix, and figure out where the other pieces
Speaker 5: go to make it work. Spence, I'm telling you, I
Speaker 5: worked on this thing on a trade machine for an
Speaker 5: hour and gave up because it was too complicated. I
Speaker 5: was like, I'll just wait for Hollandry to write it
Speaker 5: because I can't do I can't do this, like it's
Speaker 5: so complicated on how to make that work.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know we'll see because they are going
Speaker 1: to need multiple teams, I think, and a team like
Speaker 1: the Jazz with clean books to absorb somebody's contract and
Speaker 1: if you're the Jazz, You're in a good spot because
Speaker 1: it's kind of like when they you know, it's funny
Speaker 1: for I'm not knocking on anybody, but if you don't
Speaker 1: follow the league and you get this learn on your phone,
Speaker 1: like the Jazz traded for Russell Westbrook, you kind of
Speaker 1: scratch your head and you go, what are we doing?
Speaker 2: But they also did it with Derek Rose. So maybe
Speaker 2: the Jazz.
Speaker 1: Could be involved in a deal where a name comes
Speaker 1: here and the Jazz also say, hey, if we're gonna
Speaker 1: do this, you have to send us now a pick, right,
Speaker 1: We're not just taking them. And so the Jazz actually
Speaker 1: are in a decent spot to maybe stay involved in
Speaker 1: a complicated transaction like that that is going to need
Speaker 1: multiple teams with multiple different optionality.
Speaker 5: There you go, absolutely, yeah, but a lot of optionality
Speaker 5: for sure. But yeah, I mean that's what it is, right,
Speaker 5: Like I think you're going to see teams like Detroit, Toronto, Utah.
Speaker 5: Obviously you're going to see teams really try to get
Speaker 5: in on this deal to get a pick out of it, right,
Speaker 5: And it's why you have the flexibility, it's why you
Speaker 5: have the optionality of all these situations. If you're those teams.
Speaker 5: It's because the smart ones, the smart front offices, find
Speaker 5: a way to get in on these big deals and
Speaker 5: they get a pick out of it. And sometimes it's
Speaker 5: meaningful and sometimes it's not. But why wouldn't you if
Speaker 5: you have that flexibility.
Speaker 1: But in addition to optionality, Zach did, Phoenix, just y'all
Speaker 1: also give themselves more bites at the Apple.
Speaker 5: I mean, if you were talking about a front office
Speaker 5: in a in an ownership group that was looking for,
Speaker 5: you know, different different modes of how they could go
Speaker 5: different bites of the Apple as you said, like sure,
Speaker 5: but I don't see like that's they've got a singular
Speaker 5: focus here. It's like they've got to get rid of
Speaker 5: they want to get rid of Nurk. I thought they
Speaker 5: made a really good trade for Nick Richards, like that
Speaker 5: was a nice pickup. And so they've got a little
Speaker 5: bit better at big Man. But this is you know,
Speaker 5: this is a Sun team that they are focused on
Speaker 5: Jimmy Butler, and that is from now until February sixth,
Speaker 5: that is what they're trying to do.
Speaker 2: Who else is out there outside of Butler?
Speaker 1: In your mind that is gettable and could actually make
Speaker 1: a team better any other hypothetical trade you're hearing about.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think I think the next name
Speaker 5: after that, I think people would assume, like, oh, Brandon,
Speaker 5: I think all that brandon ingram stuff just completely cooled off.
Speaker 5: And and maybe New Orleans is thinking is trying to
Speaker 5: find a way to retain him for you know, much
Speaker 5: cheaper than what he was hoping to get. I would
Speaker 5: say the next big name is Cam Johnson. So like
Speaker 5: Cam Johnson, Like, there are teams after Cam Johnson right now.
Speaker 5: There are multiple teams, multiple contenders, teams that are trying
Speaker 5: to be contenders that look at him as all right,
Speaker 5: let's put this dude at the three or the four.
Speaker 5: He's a solid enough defender, he can really shoot the ball,
Speaker 5: he can you know, do a little bit off the dribble. Like,
Speaker 5: I think he's the other name that is, like, if
Speaker 5: Jimmy doesn't get traded, I think that's probably the biggest
Speaker 5: or best player that gets moved.
Speaker 1: What because we were talking about this earlier and it
Speaker 1: was actually your buddy Haberstrow a couple of weeks ago
Speaker 1: who dropped the uh because that was you.
Speaker 2: Know around here.
Speaker 1: The conversation continues, like, Hey, how long until they're serious
Speaker 1: about winning.
Speaker 2: How long until they're decent?
Speaker 1: And when you look at what Philly did when they
Speaker 1: you know, did the whole trust the process of Sam.
Speaker 2: Hinkey, it took them five years and a lot of.
Speaker 1: Misses until they got the luck they need and match
Speaker 1: that luck with the right player and that was mb'd
Speaker 1: and you know so so ultimately we are here in
Speaker 1: Sault Lake City, year two, you know, year three, we're
Speaker 1: two and a half years into this thing. It is
Speaker 1: five years a reasonable It's just it's such a depressing
Speaker 1: thing to say a microphone high.
Speaker 2: It really is a long time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's depressing to say that in a microphone. But
Speaker 1: is that kind of like the ride? Do you think
Speaker 1: this fan base is in for generally speaking?
Speaker 5: No, because I do think there's a point where you
Speaker 5: had like that, that kinky thing was so one, so
Speaker 5: hated around the NBA that I don't know that you
Speaker 5: can sell that a second time, no matter what the
Speaker 5: market is, Like, I just don't think you can of
Speaker 5: just being so overt about it. Also, like I don't
Speaker 5: think Danny has that in him, right, I don't think
Speaker 5: I don't think Justin Zannik has it in him. I
Speaker 5: don't think like five years a long time. I think
Speaker 5: the difference too in those is the Jazz up until
Speaker 5: this year, the previous two years, like that was a
Speaker 5: pretty decent team, right they weren't out, they weren't and
Speaker 5: so they weren't in this process of two and a
Speaker 5: half years right now in which they're getting high lottery
Speaker 5: picks and then seeing, all right, is this guy going
Speaker 5: to be a star, like they they didn't fully commit
Speaker 5: to it. So maybe you get that this year and
Speaker 5: next year maybe, but I like, even then, I wouldn't
Speaker 5: expect next year to go that way. I think if
Speaker 5: they get a guy, if they get like say they
Speaker 5: get the number one pick, they get Cooper Flag, I
Speaker 5: think from there they're trying to build exponentially after that,
Speaker 5: because that just seems like that's that's how that's how
Speaker 5: Danny Ainge runs teams.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to your point, I mean, in twenty thirty one,
Speaker 1: when the Jazz get this Phoenix unprotected pick, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure Danny's like grinding. And you know, honestly, Zach, I
Speaker 1: really and I'm not trying to, you know, speak on
Speaker 1: something I'm not familiar with. It just it just feels
Speaker 1: like Xanik is the guy that's really, you know, doing
Speaker 1: the grinding day to day, and he kind of loops
Speaker 1: Danny in probably oftentimes on a zoom call when he's
Speaker 1: making the turn at Riverside Country Club and he's like, Hey,
Speaker 1: what what.
Speaker 2: Do you think about this?
Speaker 1: And and so ultimately, you know, I don't know what
Speaker 1: this front office looks like five or six years down
Speaker 1: the road.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Ryan Smith often talks about playing the long game, and
Speaker 1: the long game probably is what you know, the only
Speaker 1: option is in order to get the right players and
Speaker 1: enough talent to compete with the best teams in pro basketball.
Speaker 1: But if they do finally, because the Jazz have been
Speaker 1: in the lottery nine times, they've never moved on. So
Speaker 1: if they finally get the luck they need and they
Speaker 1: snag Cooper Flag, and next year your front court is
Speaker 1: Walker Kessler, Lowry Markenen, and Cooper Flag. First of all,
Speaker 1: congratulations to this fan base for several reasons. Second of all,
Speaker 1: Second of all, that week they've landed on the one
Speaker 1: option they were looking for. That building will be sold
Speaker 1: out every night, I can.
Speaker 2: Promise you that.
Speaker 1: But then you finally can say, all right, okay, you
Speaker 1: know I think the fan base certainly would welcome a
Speaker 1: situation like that because it is something tangible, Zach, and
Speaker 1: fans just need something tangible at times, and it's been
Speaker 1: a long time here since something really tangible is kind
Speaker 1: of at play.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, I mean that is that solves the problem
Speaker 5: of what is this supposed to be? Right? If that happens,
Speaker 5: that solves that problem. And to your point, like like,
Speaker 5: this is just me guessing, but as you know, an
Speaker 5: educated guest, like my guess is the like it's a
Speaker 5: shared vision between Danny and Justin, Right, I think Danny's
Speaker 5: got maybe the grander form of it, and then it's
Speaker 5: and then Justin's just like, all right, well this is
Speaker 5: my part of the vision and I'm gonna go, yeah,
Speaker 5: do that day to day stuff they like grind it
Speaker 5: out right to like, yeah, I don't think Danny's in
Speaker 5: their crunching spreadsheets and everything, Like, I don't think that's happy.
Speaker 5: But I think that's the vision for both of them
Speaker 5: is once you get that guy, like if they get
Speaker 5: Cooper flag from there, you know how easy that is
Speaker 5: to sell this plan to the fan base of like, hey,
Speaker 5: we got the guy, and we've got these other players
Speaker 5: and now everything starts to fit in. Now those players
Speaker 5: you were getting with the ninth and thirteenth and twenty
Speaker 5: whatever picks over the last couple of years, they start
Speaker 5: to fit in around that number one guy, because that's
Speaker 5: that's what the whole point of this is. Have these
Speaker 5: Like the point of you know, drafting these guys is
Speaker 5: you just can't miss. If you get nothing but rotation
Speaker 5: players for the next ten years and all these picks,
Speaker 5: that's a that's a success, right, Like you want the
Speaker 5: number one guy, you want that top dude. But if
Speaker 5: you can just never miss you always have these these guys,
Speaker 5: then guess what it does. It creates optionality for you
Speaker 5: in any trades or any future rotation building for them,
Speaker 5: and so like that that's the that's the key that
Speaker 5: they've been doing. I think they've done a good job
Speaker 5: of that in the draft too. Like I don't know
Speaker 5: how many guys, you know, obviously, other than Taylor Hendricks
Speaker 5: because of that injury, I don't know how many guys
Speaker 5: you look at and you're just like, yeah, this dude
Speaker 5: has no chance of contributing down the road.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Danny Ands, Michael Scott and Justin zanik Is, Jim Halpert.
Speaker 2: It's day to day versus big picture.
Speaker 1: That's just that's just kind of the deal, all right,
Speaker 1: Jazz play okay, see tonight, And I think it might
Speaker 1: be time and maybe pastime to just be like, yep,
Speaker 1: there is one team that is head and shoulders above
Speaker 1: everybody else in the West. And your buddy Habershawn on
Speaker 1: Monday of this week outlines very in great detail as
Speaker 1: Tom does, how he believes there's a level that they
Speaker 1: haven't even approached.
Speaker 2: And you know, when you look at their net, it's historic.
Speaker 1: Houston's the second place team in the West and they're
Speaker 1: seven games back, So two parter is it time just
Speaker 1: to say yet?
Speaker 2: Like, yep, we thought there was gonna be a lot
Speaker 2: of parody, there's.
Speaker 1: Not because they're you know, okase, he's that good and
Speaker 1: you agree with Tom that they have another level that
Speaker 1: they haven't even found yet.
Speaker 5: I do agree that they have another level, right Like,
Speaker 5: I mean, they've been doing all this pretty much without
Speaker 5: chat Holgeren. He's at worst their third best player, right like,
Speaker 5: because I think Jalen Williams is exceptional, so he's at
Speaker 5: worst the third best player. They might be adding their
Speaker 5: second best player into the mix however you want to,
Speaker 5: you know, kind of parse that out, but you know,
Speaker 5: there is a lot more that they can do, especially offensively. Defensively,
Speaker 5: they're they're just unbelievable how they're playing defense every night
Speaker 5: in the night out. But there is the level. But
Speaker 5: I'm I'm not sold on the idea that it's them
Speaker 5: and then everybody else in the left because a healthy
Speaker 5: Mavericks team, you know, they got better this offseason, they
Speaker 5: you know, and so the Thunder, but they beat them
Speaker 5: pretty pretty soundly in the postseason, right, Like, this is
Speaker 5: still a they have some experience under the belt now,
Speaker 5: but this is still a very inexperienced playoff team when
Speaker 5: it comes to the Thunder. So I would think a
Speaker 5: healthy Dallas team and they're like, look, they've been playing
Speaker 5: better lately. Do you have an answer for Jokic? Like,
Speaker 5: I know how those regular season games have gone, but
Speaker 5: if you get into the playoffs and that team's healthy
Speaker 5: and it's hey, Chett and Isaiah, you guys got to
Speaker 5: go stop Jokic? Are you confident that that's going to happen? Like,
Speaker 5: I still think there's something with Denver there as well.
Speaker 1: Do you think Denver does anything because look, they have
Speaker 1: found a little something with this starting lineup. But look,
Speaker 1: I've you know, my idea with Westbrook, it hasn't changed
Speaker 1: in a long time. Like you can have him and
Speaker 1: if you want to win four times and seven tries
Speaker 1: against a team in the postseason. I just don't believe
Speaker 1: he's going to shoot forty three percent from three like
Speaker 1: he has over the past ten games.
Speaker 2: But it's worked for now.
Speaker 1: As we approach February six you think Denver's and look,
Speaker 1: obviously that ownership group does not want want to add
Speaker 1: payroll because they've done nothing but jed good players over
Speaker 1: the past couple of years. But do you feel like,
Speaker 1: because they have the best player on the planet, they
Speaker 1: know they have a shot, so let's add a piece
Speaker 1: or two.
Speaker 2: Prior to February sixth, Yeah, I.
Speaker 5: Mean, you know, Tony Jones did some interesting reporting. Maybe
Speaker 5: like I guess this is like a month a month
Speaker 5: and a half ago, but you know, I think it
Speaker 5: was him and Sam Amic for US. You know, reported
Speaker 5: like some interest in moving Michael Porter Junior for Zack Lavine, right,
Speaker 5: And I think on the surface, like why would you
Speaker 5: do that? But you look at it, you know, Michael
Speaker 5: Porter junior is whatever. He's a super talented player. I
Speaker 5: don't think he's very reliable. I wouldn't want him on
Speaker 5: on defense. I don't care what Denver media is saying, like,
Speaker 5: oh he's really improved. Everyone's going at that dude right now.
Speaker 5: Zack Labeen isn't exactly a better defender, but he's a
Speaker 5: more consistent offensive player. And I do think that there's
Speaker 5: some idea to what if you swap those two out
Speaker 5: and whatever that's going to happen, does that make Denver
Speaker 5: more potent offensively if they're going to be the same defensively.
Speaker 5: I do think there's something to that, But that is
Speaker 5: adding payroll, that is you know, probably hurting there already
Speaker 5: thin depth because of making contracts work and matching everything up,
Speaker 5: and so I don't ultimately think they do anything. Maybe
Speaker 5: they try to get somebody on the buyout market, but
Speaker 5: I think with the way that they've been playing, Jamal
Speaker 5: Mertt looks great. Russell Westbrook, you know, I'm with you
Speaker 5: on that stuff, but like you know, he has kind
Speaker 5: of found his role with that team, and at least
Speaker 5: for now it looks it looks pretty sound. And then
Speaker 5: there's just like you got Yokic playing the best basketball
Speaker 5: of his career, which is saying something. And I just
Speaker 5: I think that they look at this recent stretch and
Speaker 5: probably say, why would we want to disrupt what's happening
Speaker 5: right now? Look at what's happening.
Speaker 1: Before I set you loose, I'm not gonna ask you
Speaker 1: about the Cavs again. We revisit that every week, and
Speaker 1: I think most people still believe it's the Celtics conference
Speaker 1: to lose, and the Knicks continue to kind of stick around.
Speaker 2: But has Milwaukee.
Speaker 1: Because look, man, every time I lock in on a
Speaker 1: Bucks game and Yannis does the honest thing, I'm like,
Speaker 1: we have to talk about Milwaukee kind of the same
Speaker 1: way we talk about Denver, only because we've seen Giannis
Speaker 1: do it before and they're they've been better. As of way,
Speaker 1: what are you willing to say about their chances this year?
Speaker 1: And I know you're a huge Doc Rivers guy, so
Speaker 1: go ahead.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I just man, I who's their fourth best player?
Speaker 5: Is it brook I mean, do you count can you
Speaker 5: count on Middleton to be available? So like that, I
Speaker 5: mean that's the thing, Like, no, you know, Brooks had
Speaker 5: a good, a good career and he's been really good
Speaker 5: in Milwaukee for his role. I just don't know how
Speaker 5: much you can keep counting on that, I mean, fifth
Speaker 5: best player, sixth best player. Like, it's such a thin
Speaker 5: roster and such a thin rotation, and so I don't know, Like,
Speaker 5: let's say they do move Middleton and they bring Bradley
Speaker 5: Beal in in this you know, very complicated deal. It's
Speaker 5: a name, it's a guy who will probably be on
Speaker 5: the court more than Middleton will is it a reliable
Speaker 5: guy Like I just I think that if you could
Speaker 5: convince me that Chris Middleton is going to be healthy
Speaker 5: and and they're going to be whole for the playoffs, yeah,
Speaker 5: I can see it. I don't think it's ridiculous to to,
Speaker 5: you know, kind of guess that they could. They could
Speaker 5: upset people and surprise people, because the honest is that good.
Speaker 5: And we've seen Dame do a lot, a lot of
Speaker 5: cool stuff in the postseason. But I just I don't
Speaker 5: think they're on the level of the Knicks. I definitely
Speaker 5: don't think they're on the level of the Celtics, and
Speaker 5: in the in the Cavs, and I'm not sure they're
Speaker 5: on the level of a healthy magic team.
Speaker 1: All right, Zach appreciate the time. Man, good stuff. Have
Speaker 1: a great week and weekend with chat soon.
Speaker 5: Hey, just anytime you need me next week, I've got
Speaker 5: optionality for you.
Speaker 2: Optionality.
Speaker 1: I'll i'll order send you a bunch of times which
Speaker 1: gives you a lot of bites at the Apple.
Speaker 5: Okay, Dolly, appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Zach Harper he writes the NBA Power rankings and trade
Speaker 1: primers for the athletic and has a bunch of different
Speaker 1: podcasts going on.
Speaker 2: He's a hard working dude.
Speaker 1: Get him on social media at Talk Hoops is where
Speaker 1: you find him. Jazz made a trade with the Suns
Speaker 1: as we were signing off last night, so broke that
Speaker 1: one down with Zach. We're gonna bring in Neil Smith
Speaker 1: coming up our weekly conversation with Neil or we'll talk
Speaker 1: some NHL and some Utah Hockey Club. They're off tonight,
Speaker 1: but they're back in action tomorrow against me Minnesota. Before
Speaker 1: we catch break, I want to tell you about my
Speaker 1: friends at Prize Picks. It is the best place to
Speaker 1: get real money sports action. They've made daily fantasy sports
Speaker 1: accessible to all. All you have to do is pick
Speaker 1: a couple players, then more or less on their stat projections.
Speaker 2: And you win.
Speaker 1: So it's easier than figuring out the spread, the over, under,
Speaker 1: the money line, the hook, all the terms you need
Speaker 1: to know. If you're simply betting on games, and they're
Speaker 1: offering you a free square, so you only have to
Speaker 1: get two players, right, and for the NFC Championship, they're
Speaker 1: offering you Jayden Daniels only needs one passing yard and
Speaker 1: you win the square. So you have to get one
Speaker 1: other player and you can win up to one thousand
Speaker 1: times your cash. For Buffalo KC, Will Patrick mahomes for
Speaker 1: more than two hundred and fifty three yards. Will Travis
Speaker 1: Kelsey have more than sixty nine yards receiving. Will Josh
Speaker 1: Allen rush for more than forty eight yards? Philly Washington,
Speaker 1: which is your NFC Championship game, Jalen Hurts rushing for
Speaker 1: more than thirty one yards, Will say Kwon Barkley rush
Speaker 1: for a touchdown? Now check Prize Picks for up to
Speaker 1: day player projections prior to kickoff coming up on Sunday,
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, download the p Picks app today.
Speaker 1: Use the promo code ESPN seven hundred to get fifty
Speaker 1: dollars instantly after you play your first five dollars lineup.
Speaker 1: Download the Prize Picks app today use the promo code
Speaker 1: ESPN seven hundred to get fifty dollars instantly after you
Speaker 1: play your first five dollars lineup. Prize Picks run your
Speaker 1: game all season long. All right, Neil Smith's gonna join us,
Speaker 1: coming up next, and then we will bid you good
Speaker 1: afternoon for Utah basketball against Houston. Gonna be a tough,
Speaker 1: tough task for Craig and that team. We'll have to
Speaker 1: see how it goes.
Speaker 2: We got a.
Speaker 1: Busy afternoon and busy evening on the radio station. We're
Speaker 1: we're about to say good afternoon to you in just
Speaker 1: about twenty minutes or so as the Utah men's basketball
Speaker 1: team take on the Houston Cougars. Houston's a national championship contender,
Speaker 1: so Craig and his team are gonna have a tough task.
Speaker 1: And then after that Utah women welcome in Kansas to
Speaker 1: the Huntsman Center tonight here in Salt Lake City. The
Speaker 1: Jazz are off Utah Hockey Club. No excuse me, the
Speaker 1: Jazz are playing the Thunder. It's the hockey club who
Speaker 1: are off. But they want a couple of home games
Speaker 1: before hitting the road to take on the while our
Speaker 1: next guest joins us on a weekly basis to talk
Speaker 1: a little hockey. It is Neil Smith on a Wednesday afternoon. Neil,
Speaker 1: Happy Wednesday, Sir, how.
Speaker 5: Are you good?
Speaker 6: Good Spence? How you doing?
Speaker 2: I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 1: Before we get to the Utah Hockey Club, I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you so, Alex Ovechkin is about to break
Speaker 1: Wayne Gretzky's career goal record, which is a record, Neil
Speaker 1: that I think most people believed was extremely safe. I
Speaker 1: wanted you to give our audience and context because we
Speaker 1: always talk about who the goat is in this sport
Speaker 1: or that sport or what have you, and it feels
Speaker 1: like the one sport where there is no debate is hockey?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 1: How big is the gap between Wayne Gretzky and whoever
Speaker 1: else would be second on your list as far as
Speaker 1: the greatest hockey player ever?
Speaker 6: I think it's quite a bit. And it depends whether
Speaker 6: you're talking about all offense or guys that have changed
Speaker 6: the game like Bobby Orr or people like Gordie Howe
Speaker 6: that we're going to totally different era. But I think
Speaker 6: if you're if you want to talk about dominating, just
Speaker 6: total domination of the game, you got to go to Gretzky.
Speaker 6: Nobody has dominated the game offensively like he did for
Speaker 6: all those years in Edmonton and then in LA for
Speaker 6: quite a number of years. I remember being at a
Speaker 6: game in Hartford, Edmonton in Hartford, and I wrote on
Speaker 6: my report, I said, it's just not fair. Every time
Speaker 6: he gets on the ice, they've got two or four
Speaker 6: scoring chances, like the other team has no chance. And
Speaker 6: it was like a man with all boys. He just
Speaker 6: a just an unbelievable thing. I'm glad that I lived
Speaker 6: in that era to watch him.
Speaker 1: So Igor Schusterkin tried to fight Brady Kachuk during the
Speaker 1: Rangers win and it didn't go well. Neil, First of all,
Speaker 1: why would you do that, because you can't drop your
Speaker 1: gloves and are there unwritten rules out there for hockey players,
Speaker 1: like dude, don't punch, don't punch the goalie like it
Speaker 1: seemed like an odd move by your starking.
Speaker 6: To me, Yeah, well it was. And there's no reason
Speaker 6: for a guy that's that important to his team. I don't.
Speaker 6: I guess he's got a temper like we all do.
Speaker 6: But Brady Kachuck is going to get under everybody's skin.
Speaker 6: That's what he does. He's a He's a unicorn of
Speaker 6: a player. He's a very special player. He's very talented.
Speaker 6: He to put it in context of when you were
Speaker 6: a kid watching those Ranger teams. He's got a fatique
Speaker 6: and in him and got a little bit of Messy
Speaker 6: in him. So he's got both things. He you know,
Speaker 6: mess wasn't the irritating guy. Mes could just take care
Speaker 6: of business. Brady Kulchuck just drives you nuts, sort of
Speaker 6: like his brother does in Florida.
Speaker 2: How many him like his dad did? Right, isn't he
Speaker 2: keys kid?
Speaker 6: Yeah? He's Keith Boy and Keith was a big power
Speaker 6: forward and those two hanging around locker rooms their whole childhood.
Speaker 6: I guess is rubbed off the right way because they're
Speaker 6: both great players.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are.
Speaker 1: How is so Liam O'Brien here for the Uta Hockey Club,
Speaker 1: Spicy Tuna as he's known to the fan base. He's
Speaker 1: a very popular player here. He got in a fight
Speaker 1: with the Blues player. He got his clock cleaned and
Speaker 1: blood was spilling down his face and he skated off
Speaker 1: the ice to a rounding or I should say, a
Speaker 1: rousing round of applause from the fan base, and the
Speaker 1: hockey club actually scored three goals right after that. How
Speaker 1: are the fighters on each team like established, because it
Speaker 1: seems like the fighter on this team seems to be
Speaker 1: Liam O'Brien.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's very tough guy. If you know, it's not
Speaker 6: like the old base where there was real fighting. This
Speaker 6: is scrapping, but it's you know, everybody's got a shield
Speaker 6: on so you're not in a helmet, so you're not
Speaker 6: getting in many blows. And mostly it's takedowns. You know,
Speaker 6: whoever goes down the other guy won. But there is
Speaker 6: there is sometimes when you get get some you know,
Speaker 6: some punches in there, and it's well established in in
Speaker 6: the pecking order that the management will look to have
Speaker 6: at least one or two guys in their lineup or
Speaker 6: that can go in their lineup that can deter any
Speaker 6: kind of liberties that another team might try to take
Speaker 6: with your team.
Speaker 2: Who was when you were running clubs?
Speaker 1: Who was I'll say the most feared dude, Like as
Speaker 1: far as the fighter, where you're like, don't mess with
Speaker 1: that guy because he might kill you. Who was the best,
Speaker 1: like most feared fighter? Around pro hockey back then.
Speaker 6: We I'll name a number of them. I mean, I
Speaker 6: think that they were Bob Probert Joe Koser, both played
Speaker 6: for Detroit for a long time and then enjoying won
Speaker 6: the Cup with us in ninety four. Ty Domi was
Speaker 6: a guy that was just crazy enough that he'd take
Speaker 6: on anybody, and he wasn't very big for that era.
Speaker 6: I got to put those three. There's a couple of
Speaker 6: guys in Saint Louis. Kelly Chase was pretty darn tough,
Speaker 6: and you know every team had one, but I'd say
Speaker 6: the most feared guys were Bob Probert and Joey Koser.
Speaker 1: How are fights used, as far as if they're used
Speaker 1: at all when it comes to the strategy, because like
Speaker 1: I said, the hockey club really responded to our guy,
Speaker 1: Spicy Tuna getting his clock cleaned. Is it a real
Speaker 1: thing where you know a coach will point to the
Speaker 1: tough guy, the fighter and say, okay, you know, go
Speaker 1: scrap a little bit.
Speaker 2: We need we need our guys to get motivated.
Speaker 6: And they don't have to say that to that guy.
Speaker 6: I mean, they're usually fourth line players and when you
Speaker 6: put them out on the ice and you're going against
Speaker 6: the other fourth line, and the other fourth line also
Speaker 6: has a tough guy. A lot of times they look
Speaker 6: at each other and go, Okay, we know what's going
Speaker 6: to happen here, because the game is at a point
Speaker 6: where you know that's going to perhaps give an edge
Speaker 6: to one team or the other based upon the adrenaline
Speaker 6: rush of you know, your your goliath beating their galane
Speaker 6: or whatever it's And as I said, Spencer's very little
Speaker 6: of it today as opposed to you know, in the
Speaker 6: nineties or early two thousands, but there's still there's still
Speaker 6: some of it in there. The problem is is that
Speaker 6: if usually really tough guys aren't great players, and so
Speaker 6: if you can't skate today, you can't play in the league.
Speaker 6: You've got to be a real good skater to be
Speaker 6: able to play in the league. And some usually those
Speaker 6: guys weren't the greatest skaters.
Speaker 2: One more R five question.
Speaker 1: I don't know why it's on the mind today, just
Speaker 1: a bunch of highlights, I suppose, but I'm genuinely curious,
Speaker 1: Like Wayne Gretzky never fought, and it seems like a
Speaker 1: lot of the I mean of Vegkins a pretty tough kid.
Speaker 2: There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 1: But are there like unwritten hockey rules, Like Clayton Keller
Speaker 1: first line Utah forward, would a team send their tough
Speaker 1: guy after him? Or it's that's like, no, he's a
Speaker 1: little dude who doesn't fight leave alone.
Speaker 6: Yeah, they wouldn't send a tough guy after him to
Speaker 6: fight him, but they for what would happen if the
Speaker 6: other team ran Keller into the boards or gave him
Speaker 6: a dirty check or hit from behind, or stuck a
Speaker 6: knee out or anything that might hurt him. The rest
Speaker 6: of the team will come to his defense and jump
Speaker 6: the guy. We had it happen. I was at a
Speaker 6: game of the Islanders in Philadelphia and Siplikoff of the
Speaker 6: Islanders through a head check, meaning a shoulder to a
Speaker 6: head of paling on Philadelphia, and boy, the Philadelphia Flyers
Speaker 6: just all jumped him all at once, trying to pay
Speaker 6: him back. They weren't able to do it, but he
Speaker 6: was suspended for three games for the hit. You still
Speaker 6: get that in hockey if your teammates are supposed to
Speaker 6: jump in and have your back.
Speaker 1: So Clayton Kellery got hit by a puck against Winnipeg
Speaker 1: and came back with this massive shiner and actually scored
Speaker 1: a goal in Utah's win.
Speaker 2: Have you ever been hit by a puck that does
Speaker 2: not feel good?
Speaker 6: No, it does not feel good, or getting hit even
Speaker 6: by a stick, but getting hit by a puck, by
Speaker 6: a shot that can knock you out. And so he's
Speaker 6: that's a typical hockey player. They'll come back and play
Speaker 6: even though you've you know, you've taken a few stitches
Speaker 6: during the game.
Speaker 1: So Utah Hockey Club hits the road, and you and
Speaker 1: I discussed this. They had this seven game homestand that's
Speaker 1: now behind them, and they went three and four, so
Speaker 1: could be worse, but we were hoping for more home results.
Speaker 1: Before you move on to what's next, what do you
Speaker 1: make of the homestand that we just saw with the
Speaker 1: Utah Hockey Club.
Speaker 6: Well, I think it's great that they beat Saint Louis,
Speaker 6: and I think it's fantastic that they were able to
Speaker 6: beat the Winnipeg Jets, And you and I have talked
Speaker 6: about it in finitem on here. You know, anytime you
Speaker 6: can put back to back wins together, that sends you
Speaker 6: into Minnesota with a pretty good feeling. And I'm sure
Speaker 6: today they traveled to Minnesota altogether, and they've got to
Speaker 6: do a back to back two games in on your
Speaker 6: forty eight hours when they play Minnesota and then go
Speaker 6: nor and play Winnipeg the next night in Winnipeg, and
Speaker 6: then of course after that they get a day off,
Speaker 6: but they got to fly all the way to Ottawa,
Speaker 6: Ontario and have an afternoon game with the Ottawa Senator.
Speaker 6: So you know, they've got a tough three games coming up,
Speaker 6: three games in four nights, but they're coming off with
Speaker 6: two wins and that should be good news. They're going
Speaker 6: in there knowing they can beat teams, and they know
Speaker 6: they could beat the Winnipeg Chets, which they did on
Speaker 6: Monday night.
Speaker 2: And they're a good road team.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately tied with both Vancouver and San Jose for the
Speaker 1: worst home record as far as wins, all three of
Speaker 1: those teams have eight, but twelve wins on the road.
Speaker 1: You know, that's a good solid road record. Nobody in
Speaker 1: the Pacific has twelve wins on the road. The Vegas
Speaker 1: Knights have eleven. But ultimately, as we come to this
Speaker 1: point of the season, Neil, We're used to the basketball
Speaker 1: grind around here, and this is the time of year
Speaker 1: where it's like, all right, we're pretty much halfway through
Speaker 1: the NBA season, and in pro basketball, this is the
Speaker 1: time where I think a lot of the guys look
Speaker 1: around and say, I need a bit of a break
Speaker 1: from you. I need to go somewhere for a while.
Speaker 1: Whether it's players, whether it's coaches, whether it's the front office,
Speaker 1: whether it's staff members, whether it's broadcasters. What's the grind
Speaker 1: like this time of year in pro hockey. What's the
Speaker 1: challenge to keep these players motivated?
Speaker 6: You know, it's February where there's a February sort of blues.
Speaker 6: It's the month that's not quite close enough to the
Speaker 6: playoffs and far enough away from the beginning and the
Speaker 6: standing seems settled in. But this year, because of the
Speaker 6: four Nations face off that they're going to have pitting
Speaker 6: Swedish players versus Finnish players, versus Canadians versus Americans, they
Speaker 6: are going to get some time off here and that's
Speaker 6: going to be in that fourth week of third fourth
Speaker 6: week of February. There's going to be some time off
Speaker 6: for anybody who's not playing in that tournament, which is
Speaker 6: the majority of the league, of course, so maybe that
Speaker 6: will restart their engines. But it's typical Spence. This is
Speaker 6: the time of year in February where everybody you know,
Speaker 6: you know, you sort of got the blues. It's just a.
Speaker 2: Grind, it sure is.
Speaker 1: And before I set you loose for today, we'll say
Speaker 1: Utah Hockey Club halfway through the year, the Neil Smith
Speaker 1: you can give us a letter grade, you can rank
Speaker 1: them one through ten. Now that we have pretty much
Speaker 1: at the season, what do you have to say about
Speaker 1: the way the hockey club has played so far and
Speaker 1: maybe a message of hope for the second half of
Speaker 1: the year.
Speaker 6: Well, I'm hopeful for the second half of the year
Speaker 6: with them. But I think they are where I thought
Speaker 6: they'd be, which is just over five hundred NHL five hundred,
Speaker 6: and they're in the discussion to make the wild card spot.
Speaker 6: They're not out of that discussion, they're in it. They're
Speaker 6: only a minus seven on total goal differential from goalscoring
Speaker 6: goals against. The home record is the dark spot for them,
Speaker 6: because if they'd just gone five hundred, that would give
Speaker 6: them three more wins and they'd be well into the
Speaker 6: wild card discussion. But you know what, I think they
Speaker 6: have a good second half. There's no reason why they can't,
Speaker 6: you know, be competing, as they said, for that eighth
Speaker 6: or seventh spot. And I great for them so far.
Speaker 6: I'd say I'd say a B because they haven't been spectacular,
Speaker 6: but they've been good for moving out of Arizona, coming
Speaker 6: to a new city, coming to a new town, a
Speaker 6: new arena, new fans, and they're where they're where I
Speaker 6: thought they would be. And so I give them a
Speaker 6: bee for.
Speaker 2: Doing that, Neil.
Speaker 1: Where in our new hockey fans around Hockeytown, USA, that's
Speaker 1: what I'm calling salt Lake. I'll due respect to Detroit.
Speaker 1: Where can they go? Where can they go? Find your pod?
Speaker 6: Any any any podcast platform, Apple, Spotify, any of them
Speaker 6: out there, YouTube and please just subscribe, and we need
Speaker 6: to get as many downloads as we can because that's
Speaker 6: the game in the podcast world. But I think, I
Speaker 6: don't think, I know. If you listen to a podcast,
Speaker 6: you will learn things. We have tremendous guests, and it
Speaker 6: may not be as polished as Spence check its, we're
Speaker 6: pretty close.
Speaker 1: I don't know about that, and I don't know about that, Neil,
Speaker 1: but I do appreciate your time because we learn every
Speaker 1: time you're on this show, so have a great week.
Speaker 2: Admal chat soon.
Speaker 6: I look forward to it.
Speaker 1: I Neil Smith, former general manager of the New York Rangers,
Speaker 1: New York Islanders, high level scout for the Detroit Red
Speaker 1: Wings Detroit is Hockey Town, USA. Of course I could
Speaker 1: so appreciate Neil's time. I just don't understand why, if
Speaker 1: you're a goalie you decide to fight when you literally
Speaker 1: can't drop your gloves like this, I'll call it a
Speaker 1: highlight video of Igor Shustarkin trying to fight Kachuk. Like,
Speaker 1: he skates over there and Kachuk looks at him, then
Speaker 1: just punches him squarely in the face and he's like,
Speaker 1: what are you doing?
Speaker 3: You could barely move, but you're trying to throw down.
Speaker 3: I kind of respect it, though you look like a
Speaker 3: Decepticon or something walking around like a a goalie with
Speaker 3: those big pads on. You're probably not gonna take much
Speaker 3: damage either, so why not?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess you can respect it because you're literally
Speaker 1: skating over to a player knowing you were about to
Speaker 1: be punched right in the face and you can't do
Speaker 1: anything about it. Yeah, you either respect or you're like,
Speaker 1: what are you doing this?
Speaker 2: Will not end well, not ideal, not ideal strategy.
Speaker 1: But hey, it's it's hockey. That's what we're here for. Indeed,
Speaker 1: we are here for it, all right. Utah men's basketball
Speaker 1: coming up. On the other side, Utah takes on Houston.
Speaker 1: The Utes are a seventeen point five point underdog, and
Speaker 1: that actually moved down. It opened up with Houston favored
Speaker 1: by eighteen point five points. After Utah Houston, you're gonna
Speaker 1: hear the Utah women take on Kansas here in Salt
Speaker 1: Lake City. Houston is really really good. There's your analysis
Speaker 1: for the for the game coming up. Houston is a
Speaker 1: national championship contender. They have players that have played in
Speaker 1: the program for a number of years, They have a
Speaker 1: few transfers, and they are undefeated in conference. They trounced
Speaker 1: Brigham Young at their place eighty six fifty five smoke TC.
Speaker 2: They beat k State by thirty. They beat West Virginia
Speaker 2: by twenty six.
Speaker 1: They are coming off a close win at UCF sixty
Speaker 1: nine to sixty eight. But in non conference they took
Speaker 1: number nine Alabama right down to the stretch. Bama is
Speaker 1: one of the best teams in the country. Auburn number
Speaker 1: one team in the country. Houston played them, lost by five.
Speaker 1: They're one loss right now. That kind of stings them.
Speaker 1: San Diego State's a good team, but they went to
Speaker 1: San Diego State and they lost Houston fourteen and three. Overall,
Speaker 1: they're six and zero in conference play and the Utes
Speaker 1: trying to ride momentum after that win over Brigham Young
Speaker 1: here and saw Lake over the weekend. They've won three
Speaker 1: straight games and they're three and three in Big Twelve
Speaker 1: play after being beating ok State, TCU, and BYU following
Speaker 1: that four game losing streak.
Speaker 2: So we'll see if you talk and keep it up.
Speaker 1: I'm not expecting the Utes to win this game, but
Speaker 1: a good showing, keep it close down the stretch, and
Speaker 1: I think that's something that this team can fly home
Speaker 1: with some confidence for before taking on Baylor coming up
Speaker 1: in just three days on Saturday, a couple of home games.
Speaker 1: It's Baylor then at Cincinnati before hitting the road at
Speaker 1: Okay State. All right, Porter, let's get out of here,
Speaker 1: but before we say good afternoon for Bill Riley, Sean
Speaker 1: Mooney and Utah men's basketball will comes our way on
Speaker 1: a Thursday edition of the show.
Speaker 3: Yeah you mentioned it. A double header on the hoop side,
Speaker 3: following us here in a moment. But tomorrow on the show,
Speaker 3: we'll talk some college hoops. Ken Palmeroy he's going to
Speaker 3: join the program. I believe it's going to be in studios.
Speaker 3: We may spend an hour with one Ken paum Amy Donaldson.
Speaker 3: We'll stop by the program. Tim McMahon stops by the program,
Speaker 3: and depending on who's in the studio, who's not, what
Speaker 3: time we have, we'll probably try to get an NFL
Speaker 3: guest to talk some playoffs as well.
Speaker 2: Good stuff. It did become official.
Speaker 1: Rayl saw Lake has transferred Gavin Beavers onto a Dutch
Speaker 1: club after signing Rafael Cabral, the Brazilian keeper who probably
Speaker 1: will start for the soccer club. All right, well say
Speaker 1: good night, special thank you today Zach Harper and Neil Smith.
Speaker 1: If you missed any of it, go to the website,
Speaker 1: check on our podcast page and download our app.