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Speaker 1: PW Torch and Speaker bring you the Wade Keller Pro
Speaker 1: Wrestling post show. It's time to talk this week's WWE
Speaker 1: Friday Night SmackDown Albier. I think see them Punk and
Speaker 1: Cody Rohads showed how you can build up a match
Speaker 1: between two people who are longtime friends, do so respectfully.
Speaker 1: We can parse some of the words in actions and
Speaker 1: still make people think that this is going to be
Speaker 1: an intense fight that you want to see. Something missing
Speaker 1: from some of the other builds, including in the lead
Speaker 1: up to WrestleMania with Punk and Roll. But it's just
Speaker 1: to focus on the championship. I like Punk going. I
Speaker 1: want to find out who the better wrestler is and
Speaker 1: I want to be champion, and Cody wants to be Champion.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just don't think you should ever stray
Speaker 1: from that. I mean that's a bold statement. There's times
Speaker 1: you want to stray from it. I mean there might
Speaker 1: be a circumstance, but as a rule, that should be
Speaker 1: the centerpiece of any build to a main event match
Speaker 1: in a stadium, big pro wrestling event with two big
Speaker 1: stars fighting, especially for the number one prize. As Test
Speaker 1: the Tour said at the end of the show, Joe
Speaker 1: Test Tour, So I like this. I think they've done
Speaker 1: good work. I didn't think they seemed desperate. They didn't
Speaker 1: come across as as flailing trying to come up with
Speaker 1: some sort of internet buzz or social media controversy. They
Speaker 1: just told a story that feels like it could exist
Speaker 1: in a real WWE world. So it worked for me.
Speaker 1: I'm curious to know what you thought.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it didn't. I like to find enough.
Speaker 3: I just want it, just want to point say something.
Speaker 3: I basically binged everything from Night of Champions over the
Speaker 3: last two days. Yeah, so I've got a lot of
Speaker 3: fresh my head.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say after we talked in the a
Speaker 1: Black Hair, I'm like eager to talk to you because
Speaker 1: I know you you were behind and had to catch up,
Speaker 1: So you were going to turn this into out just
Speaker 1: a review of some key things on smack Own, but
Speaker 1: also bigger picture about the overall hype for the weekend
Speaker 1: for Summer Slam. So everyone stay tuned for basically a
Speaker 1: Summer Slam previews special here.
Speaker 3: And the reason I bring that up is because I
Speaker 3: think it was in the last SmackDown promo Cody did
Speaker 3: try to or to agouh. Cody did try to turn
Speaker 3: it into something else by saying that, oh, you know,
Speaker 3: I followed this thing and there's and I hate to
Speaker 3: give him credit, there was a great line by punkin
Speaker 3: that where he said, you don't have to complicate things.
Speaker 3: It just needs to be about It could just be
Speaker 3: about the belt. So you know, so so that that
Speaker 3: that did happen. I mean the stuff I don't like
Speaker 3: and it is just that the stupid, you know, convenient
Speaker 3: I hit them with the belt accidentally and that kind
Speaker 3: of stuff. But whatever that that that is what it.
Speaker 3: You know, it's I'll take that over some other stuff.
Speaker 3: So but overall, yeah, I mean it's just you know,
Speaker 3: they're they're they're they played up the whole friendship thing
Speaker 3: that they get along together, and things has been you know, percolating,
Speaker 3: and now the lid's off and you know they're they're
Speaker 3: off of the races. So yeah, I'm interested. I'm definitely
Speaker 3: interested in the match despite it being involving Punk. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm kidding. I'll lay off on that for a little bit.
Speaker 1: One thing that I like about this angle and and
Speaker 1: the build might sound an counterintuitive or or I know
Speaker 1: there's a good there's a good phrase that's not coming
Speaker 1: to mind selfless, I'll say. So they didn't give us
Speaker 1: a lot to talk about that I can like be
Speaker 1: critical of, Like they didn't do anything. I'm like, what
Speaker 1: are they thinking? Or stop doing this? It's just it's
Speaker 1: kind of what I like what I said. I wanted
Speaker 1: Roman and Punk to be more. You can be respectful,
Speaker 1: you can be grown ups. You don't have to be petty,
Speaker 1: you don't have to be dicks to each other. But
Speaker 1: you can also sell a match based on the championship
Speaker 1: mattering rival a rival read to find out who the
Speaker 1: best is. Give us a genuine belief that you want
Speaker 1: that you think you're better or you're not sure and
Speaker 1: you want to find out. And I like the growing
Speaker 1: up approach that these two men in their forties had
Speaker 1: to this, which is will be friends afterwards? Maybe? And
Speaker 1: I love Punk's line it's up to you, Cody for
Speaker 1: friends after this implying I'm gonna beat you, so can
Speaker 1: you be friends with me afterwards? I love the line
Speaker 1: of Cody saying, you said you came here not to
Speaker 1: make friends, to make money, and Punk goes, ah, you know,
Speaker 1: the keyword is make friends, the implication being I don't
Speaker 1: want to lose friends that I had. I just didn't
Speaker 1: come here to make new friends. So there's some clever
Speaker 1: lines in there, but the cadence, the pace, the delivery,
Speaker 1: it all felt like two stars who are confident and hungry,
Speaker 1: still talking to each other respectfully but intensely. By the way,
Speaker 1: when Cody said there's a word bothering me, and he
Speaker 1: said the word is tomorrow, what went through your mind
Speaker 1: heavier before he went on beyond that, anything come to mind?
Speaker 3: Not immediately.
Speaker 1: I don't don't know that. I just want to know
Speaker 1: if you had the same thought idea. I wasn't just yes,
Speaker 1: I'm not being I'm just say it was yesterday because
Speaker 1: I want to hit this point. I was curious if
Speaker 1: everyone had my thought, I thought, and I'm kind of
Speaker 1: relieved he didn't. I thought he's gonna say, my problem
Speaker 1: is it's tomorrow, not Sunday. This we should be closing
Speaker 1: the weekend. This is a top title. And I thought
Speaker 1: he's going to go into politics about Rome. And I
Speaker 1: was like, no, don't do that because and again I
Speaker 1: don't know if anyone else got that. That's why I
Speaker 1: wanted to find out if it was like obvious and
Speaker 1: everyone was thinking that, or maybe just me and a
Speaker 1: few others and I like that it Instead it was like, no,
Speaker 1: I want to I want to say, what are we
Speaker 1: gonna do tonight not tomorrow. In my point in bringing
Speaker 1: that up up here is they didn't stray like there was.
Speaker 1: I thought maybe that would be a time when they
Speaker 1: get into politics other than you know, Punk said, you
Speaker 1: know you're Sammy talks like a starter, but he's a
Speaker 1: bench player. Thought that was a good line defending the
Speaker 1: same four people headlining. I don't know if you had
Speaker 1: to go there, but I get it. It's fine that
Speaker 1: something Punk's character would say.
Speaker 3: So, and that was actually a point of talk a
Speaker 3: couple of weeks where Priest was the one complaining about that,
Speaker 3: so he was talking about that.
Speaker 1: It was a yeah, exactly was he talked to Sammy's
Speaker 1: complaining backstage priest has these things to say. I like
Speaker 1: this stuff with Trick earlier because it kind of played
Speaker 1: up the possibly you know what's gonna happen. You know,
Speaker 1: they're they're basically telling get having you as a viewer.
Speaker 1: Imagine like looking past the Summer Slam match but imagining, oh,
Speaker 1: do I want to see Trick against Cody or Trick
Speaker 1: against Punk? Do I want to see Sammy against Cody
Speaker 1: or Samy against Punk? Sammy covered both bases. Aaron Corbyn
Speaker 1: you know or excuse me, Damian Preesier's name in the mix.
Speaker 1: Baron Corben's kind of floating out there as a new guy.
Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't know. I mean, if they
Speaker 1: can move him to the top. So there were a
Speaker 1: lot of elements I liked about this. None of them
Speaker 1: were like desperate or hack or it just came across
Speaker 1: like I'm Cody, I'm Punk. We haven't had a big
Speaker 1: singles match. This is for the number one title. We're
Speaker 1: in a stadium show. Let's let's just talk with confidence
Speaker 1: and go figure out who's better. I mean, I want
Speaker 1: that to be enough. It should be enough, and the
Speaker 1: way to make it enough is to not always be
Speaker 1: desperately flailing to make it about something else. So I
Speaker 1: I like this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the overall I think it's been a positive thing.
Speaker 3: I'll have stuff to say about the Roman Rain stuff too,
Speaker 3: but over overall it's been uh the like again the
Speaker 3: one if I'm because I like playing the devil's advocate,
Speaker 3: the other side of the of the equation. If there
Speaker 3: are a couple of things the things have been like
Speaker 3: was some of the petty, particularly the you know, the
Speaker 3: the reaches back because they showed the tape of him
Speaker 3: you know, uh yeah yeah hitting him in the face
Speaker 3: and all that stuff, you know, went into obviously scripted,
Speaker 3: you know, so that that's the kind of stuff I
Speaker 3: didn't like. The one thing that I have it was
Speaker 3: a segment where I had a love hate relationship with
Speaker 3: the whole thing was when Cody was trying to make
Speaker 3: it personal. He was saying again a couple of days ago,
Speaker 3: he was saying that he followed Punk what you know,
Speaker 3: that he was following the pipe bomb promo that Punk
Speaker 3: laid out, and then that's what he decided to do.
Speaker 3: And I thought that was the most Cody thing to say,
Speaker 3: and the most Punk thing because Punk was like agreeing
Speaker 3: with him throughout the entire thing, because Cody was following,
Speaker 3: not following Punk's pipe bomb. He was following Drew galloway
Speaker 3: draw bag and tire that he was following in his footstet,
Speaker 3: which is what I was hoping that they would make
Speaker 3: that feud about. And they basically took what they had
Speaker 3: on that feud and kind of to like forced it
Speaker 3: into this one, which was like, which was great, because
Speaker 3: that's what you want to you know, create, you know, Oh,
Speaker 3: there's there's backstory to this, there's more deepness to this.
Speaker 3: But I just I was listening to a promo when
Speaker 3: I was like laughing because I'm like, this is what
Speaker 3: they could they should have done with the Drew McIntyre stuff,
Speaker 3: and it's and like, I'm kind of hoping that whatever
Speaker 3: the next step. I mean, granted Drew macintar has wrestle
Speaker 3: both of these two like to death by now that
Speaker 3: when he comes back that he picks up on that.
Speaker 3: Because I just found it hilarious how like they basically
Speaker 3: took somebody else's story and applied it to this The
Speaker 3: other complaint I had is when you start talking about
Speaker 3: some of the stuff like when Drew sorry Drew, when
Speaker 3: priests talked about you know, oh, I'm tired of the
Speaker 3: same people, uh being at the top, and you don't
Speaker 3: want to that's already something that the hardcore fans are
Speaker 3: talking about. You don't want to make it like an
Speaker 3: obvious thing because you're you're essentially drawing an attention to
Speaker 3: something you don't need to draw attention to. You know,
Speaker 3: it's like, you know, talking about a rest of us too,
Speaker 3: you know, oh you're too old or that kind of thing,
Speaker 3: unless that's part of the story. But you know that's
Speaker 3: those Those were the the miss I think they had,
Speaker 3: but those are minor compared to some other stuff we'll
Speaker 3: probably talk about. So but that, you know, it is
Speaker 3: probably the I would say, it's the second match I'm
Speaker 3: most interested in, uh this coming SummerSlam.
Speaker 1: What's number one? And then we'll just finish its short
Speaker 1: answer well, Ben Brock, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: I assume. But yeah, we'll get to that. Okay, So
Speaker 1: you mentioned, uh the line from Cody saying I did
Speaker 1: what I I executed what people wanted you to do.
Speaker 1: Punk and when you did the pipe one promo. I
Speaker 1: love that. I mean, because it's true, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: Cody had his checklist with his manicured fingers, with a
Speaker 1: designer pen on a paper with very good penmanship. I remember,
Speaker 1: you know, putting on social media. Here's my checklist, you know, check,
Speaker 1: check check. He did all of it. He didn't say
Speaker 1: start a new national company a little Aaron tbs so
Speaker 1: Tony Shavannie announcing again. But you know, he laid out
Speaker 1: a lot of it. But for Cody to admit in
Speaker 1: the whole time, because Cody has a little bit of
Speaker 1: imposter syndrome with his dad being super charismatic and you know,
Speaker 1: better in almost every way than him in his own
Speaker 1: mind and in certain in certain categories, Dust he was
Speaker 1: more charismatic and all that, but and then got more
Speaker 1: intense crowd reactions. It was more bill up by the
Speaker 1: fans until he overstays welcome and whatever. That's a whole
Speaker 1: other story that WI doesn't talk about. But for Cody
Speaker 1: to admit, like, yeah, I was kind of doing something that,
Speaker 1: but the whole way, people would have rather had Punk
Speaker 1: doing it, starting a company and being the anti Evince,
Speaker 1: the anti w B and all that. I thought that
Speaker 1: was like an admit, a pretty interesting admission. So we
Speaker 1: bragg going I did what you said you were gonna do.
Speaker 1: You said at home was the implication, or you went
Speaker 1: and dabbled in MMA went to Blackhawks game, and I
Speaker 1: went out and did it. But I always felt the
Speaker 1: fans would rather have it be you. I think when
Speaker 1: Cody says that, I think it's softens and he pushed
Speaker 1: back against him or booze from people who want to
Speaker 1: side with Punk over him, because people go, well, I
Speaker 1: have to boot Cody to let people know I'd rather
Speaker 1: Punk be on top this whole time, and he's my hero.
Speaker 1: If Cody sort of acknowledges and seems vulnerable and little
Speaker 1: insecure and doesn't have a big ego, he doesn't seem delusional,
Speaker 1: I think it softens any pushback against Cody Bipunk fans,
Speaker 1: which you can say isn't great in one respect because
Speaker 1: we didn't get notice tonight. We didn't get let's go Cody,
Speaker 1: CM Punk, Let's go. We don't have strong crowd reactions
Speaker 1: right now. We'll get stronger crowd reactions in the mid card.
Speaker 1: Frost in Theory and Maxine against otis like, that's getting
Speaker 1: more heat than some of this other stuff because I
Speaker 1: think fans are just kind of burned out on you know,
Speaker 1: the ambiguity leading to ambivalence in terms of whom am
Speaker 1: I supposed to cheer for and who got that in
Speaker 1: that take team thing too earlier tonight. But that said,
Speaker 1: I would still vote for it because I think Cody
Speaker 1: as a character, it builds him up to seem self
Speaker 1: aware because one of his weaknesses is he not self aware.
Speaker 1: That showed his self awareness and a callback, and I
Speaker 1: thought it tied together their legacies, you know, where Cody
Speaker 1: did what Punk said he was going to do, but
Speaker 1: he was out. He always felt it fans would rather
Speaker 1: it be Punk. It talks like that made this match
Speaker 1: to me feel bigger because they both were renegades and
Speaker 1: independent figures who took different paths to get to this
Speaker 1: moment in twenty twenty six. That's my case for that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, no, I I agree, It's it's just
Speaker 3: that I just found it funny where it's a more
Speaker 3: maps to the to the because he gave he gave
Speaker 3: you an interview, right Drew Galloway while he was planning
Speaker 3: doing too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, when he left when he when he left
Speaker 1: O Toby and was either in TEENA or going to TNA.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. And and that's the thing because like that,
Speaker 3: that's one of the that's one of the earlier PW
Speaker 3: torch stuff I remember. So it's why it struck me
Speaker 3: so hard. And and throughout the Cody's entire like time
Speaker 3: in the Indies, I saw he was basically hitting the
Speaker 3: same place as that that dramaguitar was. You know, he
Speaker 3: went through TNA just quick quick, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So so that that's why I foind you know, it
Speaker 3: still stands true that that that you know, that the
Speaker 3: fact that you know he's he's he's rebelling against the
Speaker 3: he was rebelling against the machine with the whole you know,
Speaker 3: throne that he you know, Triple H and Vince McMahon,
Speaker 3: the more than one row of family. All that stuff
Speaker 3: is also baked in too, uh you know. But but
Speaker 3: I enjoyed that. The other thing I liked about it
Speaker 3: was how he said that he's tired of apologizing for
Speaker 3: being the top guy. That was the other thing I
Speaker 3: liked throughout the whole thing, that that he's done too.
Speaker 1: So yep, yep, Okay, let's uh, let's pause and introduce
Speaker 1: ourselves quickly here. Then we will uh throw some comments
Speaker 1: from the chat up on the screen and respond to
Speaker 1: him Javier about Pumpkin Cody in particular. Then we'll also
Speaker 1: up open up the the color lines. You're welcome to
Speaker 1: join the show. Derella's on hold already. To find the
Speaker 1: link to be on the show, by the way, go
Speaker 1: to my TV report, my written report on SmackDown tonight
Speaker 1: at the PW Torch website.
Speaker 2: Just go there.
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Speaker 1: about SmackDown and other things that happen on the show,
Speaker 1: and then we'll broaden it out and I'm excited to
Speaker 1: get Hobvier's thoughts on seth and Roman and other things.
Speaker 1: On this show. We will talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: the division of the matches night one and Night two
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Speaker 1: the way Keller Pro Wrestling Post Show on Friday, July
Speaker 1: thirty first, twenty twenty six. I'm Waykeller, host of the show, editor,
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Speaker 3: So check that out.
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Speaker 1: Haveavier you sent me your primer for SummerSlam, so I'm
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Speaker 1: you're watching to see what our team is has to
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Speaker 1: frym me weed.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I had to wait for the results of Julia
Speaker 3: and Last Legend because I had that was gonna play
Speaker 3: into what my analysis that was.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wasn't surprised by the outcome, but it confirmed,
Speaker 1: you know, whatever's going on with Julia is not a
Speaker 1: rocket being strapped tour like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, pretty, I was pretty sure it was gonna
Speaker 3: be lash, but I didn't want to. Like you guess,
Speaker 3: the surprising part was the fact how you cheat. It
Speaker 3: was just a squash basically.
Speaker 1: That's the thing. Yeah, Julia's basically become a jobber at
Speaker 1: this point. Yeah, all right. Derek Mitchell in the chat
Speaker 1: says it would be great if the title remained the
Speaker 1: true centerpiece of the show. Cody emphasized that the Championship
Speaker 1: is a crown jewel, the King's crown, and it should
Speaker 1: always be the primary focus. And I mean again, that's
Speaker 1: you know, Philip, there are things that work to help
Speaker 1: increase interest in a show or a match that you're promoting,
Speaker 1: but there are foundational things things that that are important
Speaker 1: also that paid dividends later. And I think part of
Speaker 1: what Punk and Cody did here wasn't just sell their match,
Speaker 1: but it was selling the importance of the championship and
Speaker 1: selling the notion that this is a competition to try
Speaker 1: to win a match. It's not a competition to see
Speaker 1: who can get the most social media buzz or have
Speaker 1: the most most views of clips that that are that
Speaker 1: are propagated all over social media, or you know, create
Speaker 1: outrage or oohs and ohs. I can't believe they went there,
Speaker 1: you know, Grayson Waller on Tuesday, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: This just straightforward that you can drop this promo, you know,
Speaker 1: pretty close to this versus promo in any era of
Speaker 1: UH you know, two veterans fighting for a championship and
Speaker 1: it would work. And and I and I and I
Speaker 1: like that because I think wrestling as straight from that
Speaker 1: for dopamine rushes that are ephemeral and don't add up
Speaker 1: to selling tickets. And this was this was moren track
Speaker 1: of your's nothing to say to that. Yeah, I didn't know.
Speaker 1: That's fine. I was looking for the next UH chat
Speaker 1: comment to UH to to throw up after that.
Speaker 3: I not and I realize that's not good for podcasting.
Speaker 1: It's not good for podcasting. Plus, I wasn't looking at you.
Speaker 1: I was looking at the UH at the live chat,
Speaker 1: so I didn't even see you. Not so, But if
Speaker 1: you want to just do sign language and and and not,
Speaker 1: I mean I can I can carry it and interpret
Speaker 1: for you, all right.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: Stan Aviation says, By the way, I'll still push back
Speaker 1: on what you said, Wade. What's the what's foundational about
Speaker 1: focusing on two world titles? Well, there is that although
Speaker 1: you know, Carrie van Eric there's only one world to show,
Speaker 1: will be one World Champion and the lead up to
Speaker 1: Super Clash a w A SuperClash three. But when he
Speaker 1: and Jerry Lawler are gonna merge, the merge their titles
Speaker 1: to champs. The champ matches go way back. But having
Speaker 1: two championships, two top men singles titles in the same
Speaker 1: promotion when you don't have a super strong division between
Speaker 1: brands is still ick, you know. I mean, when when
Speaker 1: you're doing a house she'll circuit trying to cell tickets,
Speaker 1: and that's a big part of your revenue. You know,
Speaker 1: there's an argument to say, you know, we just want
Speaker 1: to have a world title match on each of those
Speaker 1: if you're doing brands separate PL's or pay per views,
Speaker 1: even though we don't want that, there's a rational built
Speaker 1: into it to have a world champ to headline each
Speaker 1: of those shows. But yeah, ultimately having a singular champion
Speaker 1: has massive benefits that they're missing out on. Let's put
Speaker 1: it that way, all right. Some of the comments on
Speaker 1: that closing segment paper standard Deviation says, I'm up to
Speaker 1: just before the main event and so far Punk's closing
Speaker 1: the line against Trick has been the only highlight of
Speaker 1: the night for me. It's about time someone made sense
Speaker 1: of Trick's catchphrase. This plays in tab or what we
Speaker 1: said earlier that I liked. They didn't just focus on
Speaker 1: like everyone going I can't wait to face you Punk Orf,
Speaker 1: you Bee Cody or you know. It didn't give away
Speaker 1: to finish, but the note the having different challengers talking
Speaker 1: about wanting to face the winner. This makes this match
Speaker 1: feel more important because you realize there's all these challengers
Speaker 1: lined up and you know, punks like I want to
Speaker 1: face somebody or co I want to face somebody fresh,
Speaker 1: I want to face new talent, And it makes you realize, Wow,
Speaker 1: the stakes are big because it's the winner of this
Speaker 1: match is the veteran babyface champion who has proven he's better.
Speaker 1: And this is what they're selling. Who knows there could
Speaker 1: be converse and finished and they do six rematches for
Speaker 1: six months, But the story they're telling is the winner
Speaker 1: of this match goes out to face this lineup of challengers,
Speaker 1: some new names and some names from the past.
Speaker 3: Yeah, some people trying to skip in line like goodser.
Speaker 1: Yes, yep, all right, m stand aviation adds, I go
Speaker 1: into every big Cody match expecting him to turn here
Speaker 1: this time he lost clean to a Heil and the
Speaker 1: lead up Sammy, which traditionally suggests he's about to turn
Speaker 1: any any day now. Yep, any day now, jave Er,
Speaker 1: what's your what's your inclination in terms of Cody turning Hill?
Speaker 1: I've been saying for years. I don't think he's turning hill.
Speaker 1: Don't think he should turn hell. I don't think a
Speaker 1: few fans booing him because he's been booked against very
Speaker 1: popular heel opponents or other baby faces, Well, Cody pats
Speaker 1: him on the head and says, hey, kid, someday you
Speaker 1: might be a worthy draw. And as I always say,
Speaker 1: Cody's drawing more crowds over twenty thousand than Johnson ever did.
Speaker 1: And it's like it's so patronizing and oblivious and insulting
Speaker 1: all that worked against Cot and then Rock patting Cody
Speaker 1: on there too, Like all this patronizing stuff to Cody
Speaker 1: that didn't treat him as QB one, you know, and
Speaker 1: and the Alpha has undercut him. Let him just have
Speaker 1: a run of being a baby face being Cody, Like, no,
Speaker 1: there's no rush, and tonight I mean the crowd was
Speaker 1: more into Punk, but they didn't boo Cody either a
Speaker 1: few scattered booths or more cheers. They chanted Cody. Then
Speaker 1: there was a Punk chance. It was a little louder
Speaker 1: than Cody. But you know, I mean they're in Green Bay,
Speaker 1: it's sort of near Chicago. I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm not I just don't think there's any rush. And
Speaker 1: I think people have read into things that were not
Speaker 1: Cody on the verge Attorney, what do you think of her?
Speaker 4: That?
Speaker 3: That's what I was actually think. That was one of
Speaker 3: my big thoughts to take aways from tonight. I was
Speaker 3: listening for the reaction on the two of them front
Speaker 3: of the crowd, right before you're about to go.
Speaker 1: I think they're curious to go home.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so so the crowd saying to one hundred
Speaker 3: percent behind Punk, I would say like seventy five twenty
Speaker 3: five with Cody, which was you know, because my biggest
Speaker 3: was Punk. Yeah, well it was under the car was
Speaker 3: under with Punk. But then there were you know, when
Speaker 3: when Punk was talking, there were pretty muche hundred percent years.
Speaker 3: When Cody was talking, it was like a seventy five I.
Speaker 1: Understand, which was which I see as.
Speaker 3: A win on the baby face column because the fact
Speaker 3: that it's punk he could have. That was my biggest
Speaker 3: concern going into this feud was you're almost kind of
Speaker 3: tempting that he has to turn heel because it could
Speaker 3: do damage to the babyface version, and you know, and
Speaker 3: and also depending on how the story would would play out,
Speaker 3: and since they basically kept it as you know, friendly
Speaker 3: to until like the last moment, I think that ended up.
Speaker 3: I think they did enough enough of a job there
Speaker 3: where it's a straight up baby face baby face matchup.
Speaker 3: I think this is like the least likely because I
Speaker 3: understand I'm like, I'm I'm too always ready. It's like
Speaker 3: is this week Thursday?
Speaker 4: Though?
Speaker 3: But this is this is where I'm least confident that
Speaker 3: Cody's an turn heel, which means it might be when
Speaker 3: he does so I would actually like, would I mean,
Speaker 3: consider the fact he's been talking about it online, uh
Speaker 3: and in interviews? Uh punk has he's been talking about
Speaker 3: like he can never turn heel again because people are
Speaker 3: still going to cheer him. So I wouldn't be surprised
Speaker 3: that those interviews.
Speaker 1: Been very popular. Bay Faced Cogan thought no one had
Speaker 1: ever I mean that, but never. I mean, Punk is
Speaker 1: in his late but.
Speaker 3: The fact that he the fact that he brought it
Speaker 3: up though, you know, in interviews, makes me think that
Speaker 3: that's you know, kind of priming the other side of
Speaker 3: the equation. And I could see him after this, because
Speaker 3: he I could see him turning heel for this in
Speaker 3: order just to keep the title and to continue the
Speaker 3: story going on. This is the thing is, I haven't
Speaker 3: bothered to think about people coming back, so I don't
Speaker 3: know about Ko. I have a factoring Ko into my thinking.
Speaker 3: I have factored Randy Orton to my thinking. I have
Speaker 3: factored anybody just my thinking. Can hear me lose me?
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, and Drew mcintaria.
Speaker 3: Well because I lost my camera, so oh I see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, I've I've heard you the whole time.
Speaker 3: Okay, so yeah so then yeah, so yeah, Drew McIntyre.
Speaker 3: So all those people coming back, I have a factor
Speaker 3: of them in this is what happens. But you could
Speaker 3: just have Punk turned heel and then just have it
Speaker 3: continue from that point on.
Speaker 1: And you could have both be babyface and split off
Speaker 1: and face heels. I am. I think Cody's going to
Speaker 1: be a wonderful heel and if he turns, I'll embrace it.
Speaker 1: My point, I'll embrace it in a vacuum that I
Speaker 1: think Cody can be a money making business, a jolt
Speaker 1: to the business and interest in ww BE, because I
Speaker 1: think he'll be really good in that role, and I
Speaker 1: would like to see him go lean all in on it.
Speaker 1: I'm eager to see it. But I'm in no rush.
Speaker 1: Is my point all long is I'm in no rush.
Speaker 1: Let's get the most we can out of baby face
Speaker 1: Cody before he's heel. I want to see a heel
Speaker 1: Cody managed by Paul Hayman, maybe against Oba Femi in
Speaker 1: a year and a half, like you know, like there's
Speaker 1: some really cool things down on the road. I'm just
Speaker 1: not in a hurry. And I will stand by my
Speaker 1: thought that people have read too much into things that
Speaker 1: made them think they were that they almost feel cheated
Speaker 1: out of what was almost promised a Cody heel turn,
Speaker 1: and I just I don't think we were really ever there.
Speaker 1: I think there were moments there were some pressure on
Speaker 1: O to turn heel, you know, with the final boss
Speaker 1: type stuff, and Cody had a chance to decide and
Speaker 1: made the decision not to and then here we are,
Speaker 1: and I think we're in a good spot. Another comment
Speaker 1: from the chat, Tito says, Tito one o two, not
Speaker 1: to be tilto tilt till. I don't even know it's
Speaker 1: tilt oh one o two. I can't tell the difference
Speaker 1: between a one in and out here. Cody taking off
Speaker 1: his merch jack jacket to reveal his business attire was
Speaker 1: so cringe it took me out of it. I stand
Speaker 1: by what I said. The only good thing about today
Speaker 1: was Nick Aldos's promo stupid go Home show. It is
Speaker 1: very quintessential Cody to take off his merch jacket, throw
Speaker 1: it to the crowd. But then have you know a
Speaker 1: watch chain or mentallion chain, I don't even know what
Speaker 1: it is in a suit vest underneath it? I mean
Speaker 1: it's Cody.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 3: I think this is the most casual he's ever dressed,
Speaker 3: to be honest.
Speaker 1: But to have a to have a like sort of
Speaker 1: a bedazzled spring jacket that sort of casual you would
Speaker 1: expect like a running suit under it or a T shirt,
Speaker 1: and to take it off, and to have a vest
Speaker 1: that's part of like a very formal three piece suit
Speaker 1: from like the nineteen you know, early nineteen seventies or
Speaker 1: something like. That's the part that I think it's just
Speaker 1: kind of startling, like those just didn't go together, so
Speaker 1: it drew attention to the fact that that when you
Speaker 1: see Cody like in a jogging suit, don't rule out
Speaker 1: that he doesn't have a vest and a watch chain
Speaker 1: underneath it, you know, or whatever.
Speaker 5: Anyway, longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want to
Speaker 5: learn some wrestling history, don't miss the nineties Pass cast
Speaker 5: every Friday on the PW Towards Daly Cast feed. Alex
Speaker 5: and Patrick will transport you thirty years into the past
Speaker 5: by taking you through the Torch issue from that very
Speaker 5: weak follow news from the WWF and WCW and all
Speaker 5: the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real time
Speaker 5: as The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the
Speaker 5: nineties Pass cast every Friday or the PW Torch Daily
Speaker 5: Cast feed.
Speaker 1: Let's see Drell, who'll be joining us as a caller, says,
Speaker 1: unlike Seth and Roman Punk, Cody did make the title
Speaker 1: feel important and not make it about other things that
Speaker 1: really don't matter, like trying to be smart. I agree.
Speaker 1: I agree. There's a comment from Derek Hubbard, who will
Speaker 1: be part of our weekend post shows. Also, Cody and
Speaker 1: Punk raised the tension and heightened the stakes meaning the
Speaker 1: belt without being unlikable or petty. Absolutely, that's that's that's
Speaker 1: my uh, that is one of the things that I
Speaker 1: liked about what they did here. I think they can
Speaker 1: both come out of this as baby faces. I don't
Speaker 1: think they crossed any lines where we have to selectively
Speaker 1: forget what they said and just sort of pretend it
Speaker 1: didn't happen in order to keep cheering them, you know.
Speaker 1: I think that this was uh, you know, smart to
Speaker 1: protect them both or to make a turn more shocking
Speaker 1: anything that.
Speaker 2: To that have here.
Speaker 1: No, what is your official prediction for this match?
Speaker 3: I don't think Cody can win. I think it'd be
Speaker 3: a bad idea for him to win because once he's
Speaker 3: already brought up, he's the golden Boy, and it's the
Speaker 3: same people at the top, and you've already had people,
Speaker 3: you know, you know, fans complain about, oh, he's been
Speaker 3: champion for too long and tired, you know, you were
Speaker 3: tired of Cody. I think you'd give him a break
Speaker 3: for the time being, put him in something else and
Speaker 3: just wet people's appetite for him to get back to somebody,
Speaker 3: for him to take down. I think that is the
Speaker 3: best case scenarios. So I'm hoping that Punk wins because
Speaker 3: I think you could still do some more stuff with Punk,
Speaker 3: with the other people there that that are in line
Speaker 3: while you do you know, you rehabilitate is usually used
Speaker 3: like in the wrong, you know, like like saying that, oh,
Speaker 3: he's been damaged. I don't mean it that way, but
Speaker 3: you know, kind of like prime him for something, you know.
Speaker 1: Mhm, all right. Vinnie Quakin says Punk versus Cody had
Speaker 1: the better build thing Roman seth. But I think this
Speaker 1: will be the first of many matches between them, which
Speaker 1: is why it's night one. That might be the rationalization.
Speaker 1: It also might be true it also they might have
Speaker 1: been on Night one no matter what, because romans the
Speaker 1: guy who's going to headline Night two. But there there
Speaker 1: is I think there could be something to that that
Speaker 1: they're finished. A Roman death might be more clean, more
Speaker 1: decisive than what we see with with Cody and Punk.
Speaker 1: What is what are the options? There is this GTS
Speaker 1: Cody goes down one, two three, Punk wins, Cody goes
Speaker 1: away for a few weeks, comes back as an issue
Speaker 1: with somebody else and we just sort of move on.
Speaker 1: Or is the only way for Cody to remain a
Speaker 1: top guy to turn heel or are we going to
Speaker 1: see Punk versus Cody in multiple circumstances going you know,
Speaker 1: going into the end of summer and maybe even into fall.
Speaker 3: I think a Punk not necessarily heel turn, but maybe
Speaker 3: like he does something unsavory to win, you know, takes
Speaker 3: a cheap shot, takes a you know, not maybe maybe
Speaker 3: short of a low blow, but you know, takes advantage
Speaker 3: of something where you know, he could still have plausible deniability,
Speaker 3: while at the same time, you know, it wasn't really
Speaker 3: did he really mean to do it that kind of thing?
Speaker 1: Yep? Vinnie Gwakin says also, when he said what do
Speaker 1: you want to talk about? The fans chant at seem Punk,
Speaker 1: I'm surprised Cody didn't mention it and get into more
Speaker 1: of his issue about Punk being the champion and not him.
Speaker 1: I don't know if Punk, I don't know if Cody
Speaker 1: wanted to draw attention to that, you know, what do
Speaker 1: you want to talk about? Although he could have easily
Speaker 1: said so do I Punk? You know, step Punk, come here,
Speaker 1: get close. I got some of to say whatever. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was fine. I don't know if he saw that coming.
Speaker 1: You know, what do you want to talk about? What
Speaker 1: did he anticipate a seam punk chant? He kind of pause,
Speaker 1: He goes, you know, Green Bay, and then he soaked
Speaker 1: up the crowd reaction, and there's a Cody chant and
Speaker 1: he goes Green Bay. What don't want to talk about?
Speaker 1: And then there was a seampunk chant. But again, how
Speaker 1: do you how do you uh uh, what do you
Speaker 1: read into or draw from the crowd not being as intense,
Speaker 1: Like if John Cena was sitting at home watching this,
Speaker 1: He's like, man, these two guys aren't over because no
Speaker 1: one's chanting. Let's go Punk, Punk sucks or let's go Cody.
Speaker 1: Cody sucks in this super intense, loud chant. It wasn't
Speaker 1: that this was not communal participation crowd. This was a crowd.
Speaker 1: And I argued this and others did too. Like Punk.
Speaker 1: What the fans are doing with Cody and Punk is listening.
Speaker 1: They like both. They're they're paying attention, they're not bored,
Speaker 1: but they don't have victory all. They don't have like
Speaker 1: passionately negative feelings that would inspire them to cho and
Speaker 1: this is it's a pro and a con. I don't
Speaker 1: think they because I don't think once they booked this match,
Speaker 1: I don't think you desperately try to get what they
Speaker 1: don't have here. But it can give the impression that
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of anticipation for it because they
Speaker 1: haven't gone for desperate things that would lead to the intense,
Speaker 1: you know, dueling chance. I don't see it as a
Speaker 1: negative because I think foundationally they did a lot of
Speaker 1: good things here. But what do you read into what's
Speaker 1: your assessment of the crowd response to this segment and
Speaker 1: the segments you've watched as you were kind of you know,
Speaker 1: catching up on stuff.
Speaker 3: So basically you okay, so when you want to get
Speaker 3: when you want to involve somebody in a match, you
Speaker 3: got three main aspects, right. You have the face, which
Speaker 3: is the person that they want you to cheer you.
Speaker 3: So if you have like a strong baby face, you
Speaker 3: want this guy to wind no matter what at any time.
Speaker 3: That's when you have a really strong baby face, heal
Speaker 3: someone you want to boom and sometimes that that that
Speaker 3: character can carry the can carry the whole thing. Hogan
Speaker 3: did that for a lot of time. But you know
Speaker 3: how many people did Hogan beat that were just built
Speaker 3: as monsters and then disappeared after you beat them once?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Then you have heels or super strong heels that you
Speaker 3: just want to see somebody beat, right, you don't care,
Speaker 3: you just want to see them lose. And then you
Speaker 3: have the story element. You know, am I invested in
Speaker 3: the story? So those are three things that get you invested. Ideally,
Speaker 3: you want to hit all three, right, the trifecta. You
Speaker 3: want a great story with a baby face you absolutely
Speaker 3: love and a heel you absolutely hate. That's the trifactas
Speaker 3: was going to get you the most investment in that
Speaker 3: one specific match. I think that because you're dealing and
Speaker 3: I say this is what you see across every everything
Speaker 3: including the Bloodline versus the the Unlikely Trio and and
Speaker 3: even Sethin and and Roman. Is that because they're not
Speaker 3: really positioning the the wrestlers as someone you really want
Speaker 3: to win. You want to see them accomplish their goals
Speaker 3: or or be prevented from a college of their goals.
Speaker 3: The stories was carrying the biggest amount of weight. So
Speaker 3: in this in this one, they it was a straight
Speaker 3: up story. So you I think what you said, people
Speaker 3: are sitting down. They're not like cheering and really into it,
Speaker 3: but they're on the edge of the edge of the
Speaker 3: They're on the edge of their seats, waiting to see
Speaker 3: what's going to pop off, what's gonna happen next, who's
Speaker 3: gonna win. So there, you know, there is engagement there.
Speaker 3: It's just not you're not engaged with either one because
Speaker 3: you like both of them, but they're engaged with the story.
Speaker 3: If they weren't engaged with this, with the story, I
Speaker 3: think you more likely get a you know, let's go
Speaker 3: seeing uh, you know, seeing us. It's kind of you know,
Speaker 3: dueling chant thing or you know, let's go Cody, let's
Speaker 3: go And you'll probably still end up getting it when
Speaker 3: the match happens. But you know, it's I think that
Speaker 3: that's just because that's part of the course. But I
Speaker 3: think that's ultimately why you're ending up getting some less crowd,
Speaker 3: you know, anticipation, because they're they're just watching. It's like
Speaker 3: if you're watching a TV you know, because when you're
Speaker 3: watching a TV show at home, you're not like cheering
Speaker 3: for the TV, you know, for the tea. You're not cheering.
Speaker 3: You're watching a movie, you're not Sometimes you do, but
Speaker 3: you don't see you're not yelling at the screen. That's
Speaker 3: kind of think that people are sitting down and watching
Speaker 3: like a play, watching something, and I think that's transformed
Speaker 3: them in their mind where they're actually watching what's going on,
Speaker 3: as opposed to getting really invested in the characters and
Speaker 3: hoping for one specific personal way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with you'd have your drella. In the
Speaker 1: chat's tonight on SPECDWN, they went back to telling stories
Speaker 1: and giving stories for after Summer Slam as well. Uh
Speaker 1: Standardbiation said, because you know, some people brought up and
Speaker 1: you have the misunderstandings or the inavertent you know, uh
Speaker 1: collisions and such. Uh Standard Deviation says, I'm fine with
Speaker 1: the misunderstandings because in the back of my mind, I'm
Speaker 1: wondering if it's a case of plausible deniability, you know,
Speaker 1: the punk swinging the belt and Cody taking offense to it.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a little too convenient, but you know,
Speaker 1: the adult thing would be for Cody to be like whatever,
Speaker 1: you know whatever not you know, flip out, and then
Speaker 1: you know, Cody snapping being a little on edge when
Speaker 1: Punk put his hands on him, I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think you want to have some of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And what they did well with that over the
Speaker 3: weeks is that when he did snap, he did back
Speaker 3: up and say, Okay, yeah, I overreacted. Yep, you know
Speaker 3: from time to time, so so it buys into it.
Speaker 3: It breaks away from like what w usually does, which
Speaker 3: is just continue to like stacking as light things. This
Speaker 3: was more like, Okay, I overreacted. Maybe I overreacted. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna take you at your word. Those were kind of
Speaker 3: the conversations that we're having until you know the album
Speaker 3: in the face. You know, at that point you're like,
Speaker 3: is it and at some point it's going to blow up?
Speaker 3: But the fact that you know happened often and yeah,
Speaker 3: the only possible thing is that they were doing it
Speaker 3: purposefully to start getting back at each other. Where you
Speaker 3: start getting to the petty petty not petty in terms
Speaker 3: of like unrealistic petty, but what's the we're looking for
Speaker 3: passive aggressiveness basically kind of petty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, petulance.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Would it have been better if Cody and Punk beat
Speaker 1: up a bunch of security guards and police officers?
Speaker 3: No, But I do it. But speaking of that, one
Speaker 3: of the thoughts I did have was, man, did it
Speaker 3: the security take a long time to come out to
Speaker 3: break them apart? I wonder if Pierce was purposely hoping
Speaker 3: to sabotage that main event.
Speaker 1: Oh, I see, you know, speaking of which I know
Speaker 1: if I's the only one. But when Punk was took
Speaker 1: the bump, the kind of the awkward bump off of
Speaker 1: the Cody awkward clothes line during the brawl, and then
Speaker 1: when Cody closed line him over the top rope and
Speaker 1: he took a bump on the floor, I'm just like,
Speaker 1: he's gonna blow out his knee, he's gonna sprain his ankle,
Speaker 1: He's gonna something's gonna happen here, and they're gonna have
Speaker 1: to call some audible, And I don't know what that
Speaker 1: audible would be other than Sammy whoever wins Sammy Finn
Speaker 1: gets a title shot later in the night or something.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was like, come on, and then they're
Speaker 1: standing on the table and I'll take to somebody to slip,
Speaker 1: you know. Anyway, Thankfully, as best we can tell, that
Speaker 1: didn't that did not happen, all right?
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 1: Mark Bisquetti says, Punk looked younger tonight. Is energy and
Speaker 1: Aura perked up when he's in the main event of
Speaker 1: the Big Show. What do you think about that?
Speaker 3: Yeah, he seemed like he was he's up to it.
Speaker 3: He seems like he's having Uh. I think he's looking
Speaker 3: forward to wrestle Cody, So yeah, I thought that goes
Speaker 3: with what with the funk?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Sean Plitscha says, I was always ready for this match.
Speaker 1: In the last two weeks have gotten me more excited
Speaker 1: about it. He also adds Cody turning here more interesting
Speaker 1: now after the last few weeks interesting. Uh, let's see.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 1: Jac Scooby says Punk was a star smack Down tonight
Speaker 1: and Sammy was the runner up. Uh, Darrell, who will
Speaker 1: get to an women? He says, I I like that
Speaker 1: Punk called out the people in the back who felt
Speaker 1: like priest and I like that they didn't go like
Speaker 1: Seth than Roman for sure for sure. Oh Atlas Fear says,
Speaker 1: I think it's when reference to my comment earlier, He goes,
Speaker 1: I had the same thought when Cody stressed tomorrow, also
Speaker 1: meaning oh, he's going to complain about not getting a
Speaker 1: match on Sunday and Caid Kay says that was my
Speaker 1: thought to Wade, So thank you. I'm glad I'm not alone,
Speaker 1: and it's nice when people chime in who aren't normally
Speaker 1: part of the chat. When when I asked a direct
Speaker 1: question like that, and and and back me up. Sadler
Speaker 1: Version three says the final saying was fine, but it
Speaker 1: didn't leave me antsy to watch this match. All right,
Speaker 1: let's uh, let's bring uh drella you find if we
Speaker 1: can take crofton first? Yeah, Derell's I was hanging around it,
Speaker 1: so crafton, I'm gonna bring you on if you're ready
Speaker 1: for us, craft and welcome. Good to see you. Good
Speaker 1: hear from you. Hey, guys, great to hear from you.
Speaker 6: Sorry, I totally expected Torel to go first, so I
Speaker 6: was not prepared.
Speaker 1: But he always says he's gonna watch the whole show anyway,
Speaker 1: so put people first. So but I like to ask
Speaker 1: him because I can kind of see a little box
Speaker 1: in the corner and he gives me the thumbs up.
Speaker 1: And sometimes others can't stay up late.
Speaker 6: So that's awesome. I I sometimes it's probably good if
Speaker 6: I get more sleep, So appreciated Darrell. I would just
Speaker 6: like right up before changing topics or anything. I did
Speaker 6: want to talk about the Cody Punk angle because I'm
Speaker 6: sort of not in alignment. I think with where you
Speaker 6: guys are. I have found this whole build very boring.
Speaker 6: And I do get the face versus face dynamic, and
Speaker 6: I like both those guys, so that is that is
Speaker 6: the thing. But when there's no strong dislike and there's
Speaker 6: no heel, you make it.
Speaker 3: You can make it.
Speaker 6: About the championship and and who's the best, And they
Speaker 6: touched on that a bit, but they often spend a
Speaker 6: lot of time repeating the same talking points. We've been
Speaker 6: circling each other forever. We can't avoid this. I'm like,
Speaker 6: I don't know how many times they've said something like
Speaker 6: that or stupid dumb misunderstandings, elbow in the face or this,
Speaker 6: and then like little passive aggressive stuff like they did tonight,
Speaker 6: and none of it felt big time to me. And
Speaker 6: and because of that, I felt just kind of kind
Speaker 6: of bored by this, and the crowd was dead in
Speaker 6: the main event segment. And I get what you guys
Speaker 6: are saying. Where they're they're both they like everyone, and
Speaker 6: there they're on the edge of their seat. I wasn't
Speaker 6: on the edge of my seat. I was like, this,
Speaker 6: this seems like they're limping to the finish line. And
Speaker 6: then of course they threw hands at the end, and
Speaker 6: people were I think, you know, got a little bit
Speaker 6: more invested. I'm wondering if this is what Vinnie from
Speaker 6: the chat mentioned the first chapter of a multi chapter
Speaker 6: story in which that they they have repeated confrontations where
Speaker 6: there's now increasing bad blood. But I don't know for
Speaker 6: a main event of SummerSlam, this has just felt it's
Speaker 6: just missing some sort of juice. I can't even fully
Speaker 6: articulate what it is, but it's not resonating with me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I get it. I mean I'm not
Speaker 1: chocked to somebody would feel that way, And you know,
Speaker 1: I think people have not just every right, but like
Speaker 1: it is thoroughly understandable that you would watch this and
Speaker 1: be like, I'm looking for something else. I am advocating
Speaker 1: not that this is the best way to sell tickets
Speaker 1: to an event, but it is the best way once
Speaker 1: you decide to book yet another face versus face match
Speaker 1: with two people in their forties. I think this is
Speaker 1: the right way to build it up. Because there wasn't
Speaker 1: desperation there wasn't a hot shot. People weren't breaking from
Speaker 1: their normal characters in order to try to grab people's attention.
Speaker 1: So I respect the restraint, but I also, in addition
Speaker 1: to that, genuinely like some baseline to situations where you
Speaker 1: sacrifice a crafton being super energized and engaged in order
Speaker 1: to focus on two adults acting like adults talking about
Speaker 1: a championship, having their temper tested and and you know,
Speaker 1: in reacting to some things and going into a fight.
Speaker 1: I mean, they did fight in the end. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I will continue to defend this, but I understand,
Speaker 1: and I'm not shocked, and I don't lose respect for
Speaker 1: you having watched this, and yeah, it's not it's not
Speaker 1: for me. Just a reminder. You can reach us at
Speaker 1: Wade Keller Post Show at gmail dot com if you're
Speaker 1: interested in contributing to the flagship or Wade Keller Post
Speaker 1: Show at gmail dot com if you're interested in submitting
Speaker 1: a question or a topic or even a rant on
Speaker 1: the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Post shows.
Speaker 6: It's more way that it's the second biggest show of
Speaker 6: the year ostensibly for the ww and so I hold
Speaker 6: the main events of these shows to a high standard
Speaker 6: like this is the culmination of a big story, or
Speaker 6: this is the blowoff of a big feud, you know,
Speaker 6: Oba and brock Hell and a Cell. Okay, that makes
Speaker 6: sense to me. This is on Summer Slam Seth and Roman.
Speaker 6: Despite my beef with how it's essentially unfolded, it makes
Speaker 6: sense to me that this be a SummerSlam match. This
Speaker 6: makes sense in the sense that they're both big stars,
Speaker 6: but in terms of like the story, it feels like
Speaker 6: it they you know, quickly rearrange the title situation to
Speaker 6: get to having their pieces ready to have this match,
Speaker 6: and then they had a couple of weeks of them saying, well,
Speaker 6: we can't circle each other forever. So it just hasn't
Speaker 6: hasn't hit for me as a main event of Summer Slam,
Speaker 6: as it would be in say, like the main event
Speaker 6: of I don't know, even the Royal Rumble, as like
Speaker 6: a main event. The Royal Rumble itself is the match
Speaker 6: people are therefore and then Ko normally gets whatever against
Speaker 6: the champion, and so, like, you know, I could see
Speaker 6: it in that slot, for instance, with the less less
Speaker 6: high requirement for there to be juiced behind the story.
Speaker 6: But for me, just for Summer Slam in particular. It
Speaker 6: feels it feels like I respect all the same things
Speaker 6: you do about two adults treating each other in a
Speaker 6: way that adults normally would, although I do feel some
Speaker 6: of these misunderstandings, blown out of proportion and passive aggressive
Speaker 6: things aren't exactly the most flattering to these babyfaces. I
Speaker 6: just for Summer Slam in particular, is I guess.
Speaker 1: What I mean too quick? Check comments and I'll get
Speaker 1: have Abby respond to what you've said, crofton if he
Speaker 1: has any to say, or he might just not. Vinnie
Speaker 1: Watkin says Cody has always been good at emphasizing the
Speaker 1: importance of the do B championship. Derek Coppert says, I
Speaker 1: don't think they needed a brawl, but I sympathize with
Speaker 1: the idea because it gives the live product climactic moment
Speaker 1: and ending to the show. And I think it was
Speaker 1: I think it was good they brawled. It's risky, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody can get hurt. You hate to say that about wrestlers,
Speaker 1: but just with you know in punk with Oh, I'm
Speaker 1: not injury prone. It just two freak things. That doesn't
Speaker 1: make me injury prone, But you know they're not getting
Speaker 1: a lot a ton of reps. They got some reps
Speaker 1: last night in a take match, and you know, things
Speaker 1: can happen. But I thought it was fine to have
Speaker 1: them fight, you know. I mean, that's that's that's what
Speaker 1: it's not just for the live crowd. I think it's
Speaker 1: you want to give people a taste of the intensity,
Speaker 1: which you don't want to give people the impression of
Speaker 1: is these do respect each other too much to go
Speaker 1: at it hard, and obviously we know they're gonna go
Speaker 1: at at full steam. Have your what do you have
Speaker 1: to say? If anything about Will Crafton's perspective has spent
Speaker 1: on this.
Speaker 3: This is probably not gonna be the only time you
Speaker 3: hear me say this to night. But one of the
Speaker 3: biggest issues I think w B has with the writing
Speaker 3: right now is not the storytelling. Is not really the
Speaker 3: you know, the positioning, baby, because and is the pacing
Speaker 3: of the storylines that you're telling. I could totally understand
Speaker 3: what you're saying, because that conversation of we're circling each
Speaker 3: other happens several times because they're buying time, they're pacing,
Speaker 3: especially for the stuff that's going on with the Roman
Speaker 3: rans and bloodline stuff is atrocious, uh, based on the
Speaker 3: storyline that they're they're that that they're telling. Because I
Speaker 3: binged everything at once, I was able to you know,
Speaker 3: crunch it, and I guarantee if you read the pro
Speaker 3: my primer on particularly the Rand situation and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: it's going to read a lot better than Magic came
Speaker 3: out on TV because of the absolute stretch that both
Speaker 3: you know, big story, both main events had with the
Speaker 3: Punk situation because it doesn't have the Punkin and Cody
Speaker 3: Road situation because you know, they're both babyfaces and it's
Speaker 3: more of a situation of like two guys who are
Speaker 3: equals and trying to see one who's you know, big
Speaker 3: brothers little brother's basically what this is, you know, so
Speaker 3: so that that makes it a lot easier to follow
Speaker 3: what's going on. But you're right, if you're if this
Speaker 3: story is it's it was. It's been like what how
Speaker 3: many weeks it's been going on and you're only getting
Speaker 3: snippets and every episode is just like a little like
Speaker 3: you know, move forward, a little move forward, movement. Little.
Speaker 1: They didn't have a ton of weeks, so Hobby, I mean,
Speaker 1: they just Punk just won the title you know, like
Speaker 1: it's it doesn't.
Speaker 3: No no, no, no, no no, because remember I'm also
Speaker 3: talking about the Range one.
Speaker 1: But there's there's a difference in pacing between the two
Speaker 1: that and I think benefits Cody Punk. It's kind of
Speaker 1: my point, which.
Speaker 3: Which is why I have that when rated higher than that,
Speaker 3: because you know, because since it didn't it wasn't that
Speaker 3: much of a stretch, but you still like overlapped a
Speaker 3: couple of weeks of the storytelling that you're telling. It's
Speaker 3: worse than the Roman rants and bloodline situation. And I'm
Speaker 3: putting those together because they're the one feeds off the other.
Speaker 3: That one's been going on since Wrestlemannia I think, or
Speaker 3: at least since the Jacob Fatu Bethany uh maybe even
Speaker 3: before that. So how long has that been? And there's
Speaker 3: there's a crucial plot plot point there, which is what's
Speaker 3: caused all the issues for these for these storylines.
Speaker 1: I think it would be interesting, Hobvier to have WWE
Speaker 1: experiment for a year and do an one or two
Speaker 1: month max where they even were they're doing any pro
Speaker 1: it's just we settle it. It's one off. We're feeding
Speaker 1: wrestlers to other wrestlers. We're not going to the same
Speaker 1: people on top against each other and see what happens.
Speaker 1: I mean, just sometimes you just change the pace for
Speaker 1: the sake of changing pace. You know that in the NBA,
Speaker 1: sometimes they just go to prevet not prevent his own defense,
Speaker 1: just for the sake of like kind of shaking up
Speaker 1: the rhythm of the game because it's not going your way,
Speaker 1: or you want to throw the other team off, throw
Speaker 1: the fans off, be less predictable, give them something that
Speaker 1: feels rhythmically different to grab their attention. Go bang bang
Speaker 1: bang with feuds and challengers. And because I think there
Speaker 1: is something this sounds soft, a soft compain, there's something
Speaker 1: to what you're saying. There's more than something. I think
Speaker 1: you're onto something in that. There is sort of a
Speaker 1: feeling right now of you know, especially with the WrestleMania
Speaker 1: starting later or taking place later in the year between
Speaker 1: the Rumble and mania that's been going on in recent years,
Speaker 1: where that's become a thing. Oh, they're stretching things out
Speaker 1: more so. Yeah, I think I think there's something to that.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like the same thing I get with
Speaker 3: some less insteller streaming shows where they're making twelve episodes, right,
Speaker 3: but their budget for like the big special effects extravaganza
Speaker 3: is you know, set for the last episode, so you
Speaker 3: basically have almost like eight episodes of like nothing really happening,
Speaker 3: and then like everything happens in one episode. You know,
Speaker 3: this is kind of because you know, since they're they're
Speaker 3: they're they're booking for the for the specific date of
Speaker 3: the you know, pay per view or Saturday min event.
Speaker 3: You know, because sometimes you have like one week between
Speaker 3: those or three or four weeks, you end up stretching,
Speaker 3: you know, and repeating the same things on your weekly
Speaker 3: show just to get to the the big points at
Speaker 3: your PL's and and premium shows.
Speaker 1: I think they would argue what they do with Sammy's
Speaker 1: title reign was shaking things up, trying to pick up
Speaker 1: the pace, cram more stuff into a storyline. It's not
Speaker 1: like Eil Skindl Morgan had been feuding forever. It kind
Speaker 1: of was a tournament thing, and now they're getting a
Speaker 1: match for the title. Dan Housen and Dom we saw
Speaker 1: coming for a while. There's sort of a supporting match.
Speaker 1: Sammy and Finn just kind of came out of the blue.
Speaker 1: Trick and Corbin came out of the blue Penton Gable
Speaker 1: kind of an unlikely match. I wouldn't have expected they
Speaker 1: would do that. That's not a result of months and
Speaker 1: months of storyline. My point is kind of picking some
Speaker 1: of that stuff out, is it's not like this card
Speaker 1: is full of matches that we knew three months ago
Speaker 1: were gonna happen at Summer Slam. That said, and I
Speaker 1: say that sort of in case that's a pushback, I mean,
Speaker 1: as well, how would doubt if you respond to that.
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's not the point Hovier is making either.
Speaker 1: The point is at the top of the card. Let's
Speaker 1: pick up the pace. Let's make some of the other
Speaker 1: polysium important. Crafton jumped on in.
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, I appreciate that discussion. And Wade, your appreciation
Speaker 6: of Sammy is always appreciated as well.
Speaker 3: So I was.
Speaker 6: I was just two last things on this before moving
Speaker 6: on on the Punk Cody segment. One, In terms of
Speaker 6: dueling catch phrases, Cody should have gone first when when
Speaker 6: doing you know, is it great to be alive and
Speaker 6: get get the crowd into it or just asking people
Speaker 6: what they want to talk about. I feel like his
Speaker 6: going second was was not was not helping him.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 6: And the other thing was that Punk Punk shots at
Speaker 6: Priest and Sammy in that promo were really cutting, like
Speaker 6: to the point that, Uh, I understand, he's probably you know,
Speaker 6: laying the groundwork to set up other feuds and stuff
Speaker 6: like that. But but Priests in particular is a babyface,
Speaker 6: you know, like seeing Sammy's a perpetual benchwarm or whatever
Speaker 6: is brutal. But like, I forget exactly what he said
Speaker 6: about Priest, but he was. He didn't use his name,
Speaker 6: but it was clear that it was in reference to
Speaker 6: what he said last week.
Speaker 1: And I caught him a baby did he Okay?
Speaker 6: So so I I just thought that was you know,
Speaker 6: it was It was not, I don't know, a good
Speaker 6: look for a babyface, I thought, But whatever.
Speaker 1: And I mean Punk is the one who was, you know,
Speaker 1: complain about the same people being on top. It's like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, I think you don't want
Speaker 1: he's in a bit of a glasshouse. When it comes,
Speaker 1: he's already facing I mean, it's quite a biding comment
Speaker 1: to say Punk. You know, Sammy says it. Punk's become
Speaker 1: you know, the corporate champion. What do you call corporate champion?
Speaker 1: Number two. Yeah, yeah, and you know a dig at
Speaker 1: Cody and that punk's the same thing. And I mean
Speaker 1: some people got that impression watching uh wwb unreal. He's
Speaker 1: gone to Saudi Arabia. He he's monetized. Maybe maybe he
Speaker 1: tried to boycott or fight it and didn't win. But
Speaker 1: there's cute little dolls with pipe Bump promo t shirts
Speaker 1: on there that they're marketing. I mean that's like, you know,
Speaker 1: people get mad when there's like this anti establishment rock
Speaker 1: music and then the band sells it for some you know,
Speaker 1: private equity firm trying to get you to buy some
Speaker 1: bad insurance or something like whatever. You know, like, oh,
Speaker 1: you sold out. I mean there's a lot of punk
Speaker 1: right now that is looking at his bank account and
Speaker 1: wanting to stay in the spotlight without the leverage to
Speaker 1: push back while those things and he has. We see
Speaker 1: what he's chosen, you know, for people who thought punk
Speaker 1: was authentic and to the hit fight to the end,
Speaker 1: and he'll be working indie shows before he caves into
Speaker 1: some company like TKO. Sorry, that's not going to be
Speaker 1: his legacy. People are gonna like his promos and his
Speaker 1: body of work, but you know, I mean it brings
Speaker 1: a little true So then for him to go with
Speaker 1: big people on top Punk, that's what you were saying
Speaker 1: decades ago.
Speaker 6: So I don't know, you know, could I'm just like
Speaker 6: the fact that Sammy and others are calling out the
Speaker 6: hypocrisy on TV, and I think it's been recurrent from
Speaker 6: different protagonists over the past few months. I would not
Speaker 6: surprise me to see Punk be the one that say
Speaker 6: turns heel in this feud.
Speaker 1: I'm not against it. I mean, so I Paul him
Speaker 1: imaging Punk again is intriguing, you know. I mean, who
Speaker 1: knows where the vision was going to go timing wise,
Speaker 1: if there weren't all the injuries. And I don't know
Speaker 1: how Olba exploding on the scene the way he has
Speaker 1: changes any of the calculus, but Paul doesn't have if
Speaker 1: when Brock's not around, Paul doesn't have a top top
Speaker 1: guy to manage. I think he's enjoyed managing bron Breakers
Speaker 1: so far, and that might be where he settles Logan.
Speaker 1: Paul's fun, but Logan's you know, kind of in a
Speaker 1: different spot than Oh, can you believe Logan Paul's wresting
Speaker 1: for us? He's going to be in made events now
Speaker 1: just kind of you know, when the speed of traffic
Speaker 1: right now as a top tier guy but not top
Speaker 1: top Austin Theory's doing fine obviously, but he's not like
Speaker 1: Paul's not gonna imminently make him the centerpiece of his
Speaker 1: factions as a heavyweight contender. So you have Punk kind
Speaker 1: of hanging out there and bron Breaker I think, I mean,
Speaker 1: w Unreal made him out to be this kind of
Speaker 1: cool dude, you know, just call him jilt dude who
Speaker 1: is a good athlete and whatever. So I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I just you know, the scenario of either
Speaker 1: Cody or Punk being managed by Haym and it doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be Hayman managing him, by the way, but
Speaker 1: both of them intrigue me, and I think both can
Speaker 1: be great. But you're right Crofton and Javier brought this
Speaker 1: up earlier. Punk, Oh, I can't turn heal again. It's like, woah,
Speaker 1: the doth protest too much can be one way you
Speaker 1: look at that Punk would be in a maybe that's
Speaker 1: what will excite Punk, you know, I mean, I think
Speaker 1: sometimes Punk's kind of bored.
Speaker 6: It felt it's felt like that in the build up
Speaker 6: to this feud at least for me, just moving away
Speaker 6: from this uh towards Baron Corbin uh quickly because uh I.
Speaker 1: Different Baron Corbyn, says, says the announcers.
Speaker 6: So I didn't watch Baron Corban in a NXT. I
Speaker 6: know he was paired with Brown Breaker there. I know that.
Speaker 6: I think that they did quite well. But this might
Speaker 6: be the longest solo promo segment I've ever heard Baron
Speaker 6: Corbin deliver. Or maybe maybe there were other ones when
Speaker 6: he was feuding with Roman over dog food, I can't remember,
Speaker 6: but but like this was this was one of the
Speaker 6: longer ones. And uh, I think the contrast with Trick
Speaker 6: Williams did him no favors here and he he really
Speaker 6: comes across at least to me. Is I mean it
Speaker 6: sounds bad to say, like a charisma vacuum in a
Speaker 6: way like he's he's just he's just he's trying, but
Speaker 6: I just I don't, I don't feel it, and and
Speaker 6: then he's This segment felt weird to me because it
Speaker 6: was highlighting also the fact that he's getting a title
Speaker 6: shot at again the second biggest show of the year,
Speaker 6: and I guess returns are big deals kind of no
Speaker 6: matter who they are you're returning to the company? So,
Speaker 6: but like, I just felt that this segment felt a
Speaker 6: bit flat. Trick did well, like as he does. People
Speaker 6: like Trick. He had the good segment in the back
Speaker 6: with Sampunk, which I liked as well, sending up you know,
Speaker 6: possible fresh match. But but how did you guys feel
Speaker 6: Baron Corbin acquitted himself today and reintroducing himself and did
Speaker 6: you are you excited for that match at all?
Speaker 3: How do y'all go?
Speaker 1: First?
Speaker 3: I actually liked his presentation today. He does sound different
Speaker 3: from what I remember because he was like probably one
Speaker 3: of the most overly scripted wrestlers back then. Uh, and
Speaker 3: I picked up I know that that, you know, the
Speaker 3: commentary is a job is to you know, sell you
Speaker 3: and what they're doing. But it they've they've obviously sent
Speaker 3: the memo that he is more thought thoughtful, more thinking
Speaker 3: things through, and I think that the way that he
Speaker 3: delivered his promo actually worked for in that respect. It's
Speaker 3: a bit the whole thing's a bit weird because it,
Speaker 3: you know, it's kind of like the air dropped them
Speaker 3: in like O don't nowhere in the middle of you know,
Speaker 3: what was what could possibly be an exciting feed between
Speaker 3: Carmelo Hayes and Trick Williams. Obviously they want to you know,
Speaker 3: put that on pause and let other things develop. I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna say that, I'm gonna you know, any of
Speaker 3: the money I would quote unquote put down on for
Speaker 3: the pay per view would be to watch this match.
Speaker 3: But it's also something I'm not like, you know now,
Speaker 3: It's not gonna be a bathroom break match for me.
Speaker 3: So I'm I'm I'm interested in what they're gonna be
Speaker 3: doing with Corbin because they just you know, just showed
Speaker 3: up yesterday. So see what the plans are. If he's
Speaker 3: someone who we take serious, moving away from the you know,
Speaker 3: dog food days like you mentioned, or the broke ass Corbin,
Speaker 3: and they stop the cartoonish and just have them be
Speaker 3: you know, the guy who has uh what was it
Speaker 3: like cow skulls in front of his house, uh, and
Speaker 3: then just have him be like, you know, that kind
Speaker 3: of personality. I'm fine with him not being particular charismatic,
Speaker 3: just be a beater. And I could also see him
Speaker 3: like at some point just joining with somebody as there
Speaker 3: you know, as their beater.
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Speaker 1: I think Trick had do Toby had Dotobe fans not
Speaker 1: turn Trick baby Face prematurely and Trick was being obnoxious
Speaker 1: with Lil YACHTI full of himself. If they found a
Speaker 1: way to take his catchy music and catchphrases and just
Speaker 1: sort of likability and had managed to just make it
Speaker 1: too much, like like almost have him watch Willow Nightgale
Speaker 1: when she's just too much and have Trick like be
Speaker 1: too much on, you know, like too much on. If
Speaker 1: they had gotten him, Baron Corbyn could be this like
Speaker 1: veteran who walks in and goes, what am I looking at?
Speaker 1: What are in the fans with cheer, Like finally somebody
Speaker 1: just walks in and a stand up to this trick
Speaker 1: Williams and and he'd be like and then you would
Speaker 1: have the announcers going, yeah, this Corbyn's different. He spent
Speaker 1: a year stacking gold medals in jiu jitsu. He's and
Speaker 1: and Barrett says he's showing veterans savviness and and Corbyn
Speaker 1: talks about you need patience, you're part of this generation
Speaker 1: that he's instant gratification and it's all flash and no
Speaker 1: substance or flash over substance. Corbyn could have been like
Speaker 1: the baby face that this era needs is just somebody
Speaker 1: just flatly, calmly telling the truth to the face of
Speaker 1: obnoxious youth, and maybe there would have been a part
Speaker 1: of the audience that would have like come on board
Speaker 1: for that. It does feel a little backwards coming into tonight.
Speaker 1: I was kind of not even all that facetiously going,
Speaker 1: who are you supposed to like here? Because Brick is
Speaker 1: sort of being more more heelish lately with Li Yachty
Speaker 1: and and and uh, if you know, the stuff with
Speaker 1: Carmelo just felt like and then Corbyn gave cut this
Speaker 1: sound bite that made him sound like he's just gonna
Speaker 1: be this you know, truth telling stage like veteran. So
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'll have here.
Speaker 3: It was what Sammy did with Carmelo, you remember, and Trick.
Speaker 2: He did it with Trick too.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's right, Yeah, yep, Sammy.
Speaker 6: That's it feels like Corbyn was cutting that promo. He's
Speaker 6: cutting what Sammy was telling him earlier this year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so, I but do you like to me
Speaker 1: Baron Corbyn feels like this calm, collected, mature truth teller,
Speaker 1: not a heel that I'm super excited to boo, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think there was a lot exciting
Speaker 1: about him or dynamic about him as he is a
Speaker 1: heel character tonight. It's just, you know, if he's the
Speaker 1: fuddy duddy, if he's the guy who doesn't want and
Speaker 1: you don't want him to be like I'm I'm boring,
Speaker 1: deal with it. But there is something about his lack
Speaker 1: of charisma that I guess you could parlay into, you know,
Speaker 1: leaning a little more into like the announcer's going, this
Speaker 1: guy is like bear going. He's showing veteran savviness and
Speaker 1: test store celebrating him winning gold medals and master's jiu jitsu.
Speaker 1: Like why if you want people to boo him, why
Speaker 1: talk about him like he's matured and grown up and
Speaker 1: gotten better during his time off, you know, Like I
Speaker 1: just sometimes I just don't think that would be like
Speaker 1: has a grasp of you get to choose what you
Speaker 1: talk about, and you should be emphasizing traits that will
Speaker 1: make people have a reaction to a match that it's
Speaker 1: designed to have. And it's not a huge thing, but
Speaker 1: it's sort of I'm kind of tote my head going,
Speaker 1: You've just made a case why maybe I want to
Speaker 1: root for Corbin and Tricks is an immature, overly flashy,
Speaker 1: full of himself guy who everything's coming too quickly for
Speaker 1: and and he's you know, getting handed too much too quick.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah you could, you could do you can say that stuff,
Speaker 3: but yeah, it would have been a smart idea to
Speaker 3: also tie it into the fact that this makes him
Speaker 3: dangerous and yeah, he you know, and he's going to
Speaker 3: and he doesn't hurt people, not to you know, not
Speaker 3: because he thinks it's a kind of almost make it
Speaker 3: a tomasco Champa kind.
Speaker 6: Of character, you know.
Speaker 1: And in Corbyn leading with or I mean trick leading
Speaker 1: with his insult in Corbyn going he's a big, bald
Speaker 1: headed Baron Corbn. It's like, you got it better than that.
Speaker 1: Yes he is big, and yes he is bald, but like,
Speaker 1: neither of those are insults. They're nothing, they're not character flaws.
Speaker 1: Like there are things in Baron Corbyn's history that you
Speaker 1: can pull for him if you want to insult him.
Speaker 1: But insulting him for two things he had no control over.
Speaker 1: Actually one he did. He finally shaved you know, what
Speaker 1: was left of his hair, and we applauded that it
Speaker 1: was a good decision. So I don't know, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: keep saying I don't know at the end, I don't
Speaker 1: want to.
Speaker 6: I don't know that he could deliver that line. And
Speaker 6: until you repeated it right now, I didn't realize that
Speaker 6: it was ridiculous.
Speaker 1: Well, that's the problem that you you absolutely nailed with.
Speaker 1: The issue is a trick, is that you can try
Speaker 1: to be a heal but he's so just delightfully charming
Speaker 1: in the way that he does it, and charismatic and bombastic,
Speaker 1: and he's the guy walks into the room and you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I like this guy that w deb didn't know how
Speaker 1: to deal with that when he first came in, and
Speaker 1: they turned too early on Sammy and there's and I
Speaker 1: don't like anyway, and now they've just given up. But
Speaker 1: I think there is a way to turn him heal.
Speaker 1: But you got to actually figure out what we'll get
Speaker 1: fans to boom, and not just kind of what will
Speaker 1: be will be and a lot of what if he
Speaker 1: does knows well what will be will be? Baron Corbet
Speaker 1: ju jitsu and he's he's patient and he's matured, and
Speaker 1: he's calm, and he's showing veterans happiness. We hope that
Speaker 1: gets fans to boo him, and it's like, you actually
Speaker 1: have control over what you say. Why don't you not
Speaker 1: say things that that make you less apt to boo
Speaker 1: him and more app to respect him and be in
Speaker 1: all of him. I just I'm yeah, it's frustrating, all right,
Speaker 1: crafting what else?
Speaker 6: Yeah, I yeah, No, I appreciate. I appreciate that I
Speaker 6: have more respect for Corbyn based on what you guys
Speaker 6: have said in what the chat's saying here as well.
Speaker 6: It's just for me, he seems still very very vanilla.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 6: Sammy' zain his promo to open this show with in Balor.
Speaker 6: I thought both of them did really well, and it
Speaker 6: was really fascinating to me because they're sort of twisted
Speaker 6: mirrors of each other in the sense that these are
Speaker 6: two veterans that have been battling on the main roster.
Speaker 6: And then Finn's success came early, Sammy's success came later.
Speaker 6: And it was interesting because Sammy had been positioned against
Speaker 6: these golden corporate children of Punk and Cody, and here
Speaker 6: he was against somebody who was in more his position,
Speaker 6: and I thought this was the most that he came
Speaker 6: out like a heel since he's been like navigating this
Speaker 6: character change as the last real good guy, like he's
Speaker 6: he really the way that he was talking to Finn,
Speaker 6: saying no, no, it's my time. Now, you can't have
Speaker 6: this time. This is my time, you know, and and
Speaker 6: Finn obviously not responding well to it. So I really
Speaker 6: thought that whole segment was really great. What I did
Speaker 6: not like was Gunther coming in and essentially beating up
Speaker 6: both the number one contenders. I thought, not only did
Speaker 6: that that sort of take away from their match, but
Speaker 6: when Nick all of this came out and they started brawling,
Speaker 6: it made me think Gunther was looking past Nick all
Speaker 6: this as well, so like which is I guess, kind
Speaker 6: of in his character. But again, it's Summer Slam. You're
Speaker 6: trying to sell this big match, and Gunther is not
Speaker 6: concentrating on that big match. Instead, he's concentrating on on
Speaker 6: Sammy and Finn and in fact making them look kind
Speaker 6: of crappy. So I did not like that part of it.
Speaker 6: But but I did like and I like the all
Speaker 6: this run in, and I like the fact that they
Speaker 6: were trying to sell all this is offense and the
Speaker 6: Texas Clover relief. So now at least there's one move
Speaker 6: that I can look for in the match on the
Speaker 6: weekend and be like, I know that move, that's nick
Speaker 6: Alis's finisher.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 6: But uh but yeah, what did you guys think of
Speaker 6: the opening segment?
Speaker 1: Javier? What do you think that?
Speaker 3: Those were my notes? The ones I love? The opening segment.
Speaker 3: I was when I'm writing the Primmery, I'm like, oh god,
Speaker 3: I don't want to write about this is just throw
Speaker 3: a match thrown in here. But the way they delivered
Speaker 3: and the work that they did, all the stuff that
Speaker 3: Crofts has said like pretty much know what what I
Speaker 3: what I was gonna say, including the my note here.
Speaker 3: I didn't like Guther basically big footing them at the end.
Speaker 3: That's about the only thing. It made. It seem like
Speaker 3: that match is unimportant, that the important that this match
Speaker 3: is that that his attack on those two is just
Speaker 3: to feed the all this which you know it is
Speaker 3: a more important match, you know. Uh granted all this
Speaker 3: in Guther, but I didn't like that idea, particularly when
Speaker 3: they're gonna be the number one contender who will be
Speaker 3: facing Cody and or or seeing Punk Necks.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: But as far as the yeah them, the back and
Speaker 3: forth with them, uh, I think this is like the
Speaker 3: most pretty much solidifies in any question anybody's mind that
Speaker 3: that same Zan's the heel uh. He's basically put him
Speaker 3: you know, he's it's because everything he was saying, while
Speaker 3: true to some extent, he made it all about himself
Speaker 3: and without understanding he was talking like prophtes side someone
Speaker 3: who's had similar situations with that. I also liked that
Speaker 3: Balor never did not go into the you know, oh
Speaker 3: they did. They didn't let me, they didn't you know,
Speaker 3: get me. You know, they didn't allow me to compete,
Speaker 3: and it was you know, you know, management was against me.
Speaker 3: I liked the fact that he didn't bring that up.
Speaker 3: So overall, I love I love that that first segment.
Speaker 3: I think someone said that they wanted like the first segment.
Speaker 3: I love that first segment was the best part of
Speaker 3: the show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was good. I liked Finn saying
Speaker 1: I've been waiting a long time to get back here.
Speaker 1: I had this bad injury that derailed me. I've been
Speaker 1: waiting ten years to for this to come again. I
Speaker 1: mean used that against him and then had a CounterPunch.
Speaker 1: You know, you need to if you're gonna you want
Speaker 1: fans to think there's a chance either guy can win
Speaker 1: when they're presented as equals fighting for a big thing,
Speaker 1: which is a title shot. So if you were to
Speaker 1: put Finn in a position to make his case in
Speaker 1: storyline and meta that there's a chance he wins. He
Speaker 1: presented himself with some gravitas as a serious person who
Speaker 1: seriously is looking at being champion again or getting a
Speaker 1: title shot.
Speaker 2: And you do it.
Speaker 1: Whether you think it's gonna land with a double digit
Speaker 1: percentage of people or not, that's the right thing to do.
Speaker 1: And they did it. And then Finn came across as
Speaker 1: grounded and reasonable and Sammy came across as unhinged and
Speaker 1: you know, making some good points but at where you
Speaker 1: just don't want to be around him. But another way,
Speaker 1: you're thoroughly entertained by him because it's wrestling and he's
Speaker 1: a very entertaining heel. And you know, you know, Sammy,
Speaker 1: no disrespect, but it took ten years and it didn't happen,
Speaker 1: So maybe take a hint, great line, like I mean,
Speaker 1: that was just fantastic, And you know, Finn Baller came
Speaker 1: back he said, well, Sammy, took you more than ten
Speaker 1: years to even smell a championship, so maybe you should
Speaker 1: take a hint. Sammy's line was better, but at least
Speaker 1: Finn had something to come back with. And Ian Valor says,
Speaker 1: you know I got injured, im My title Rananda, you
Speaker 1: got injured because you know you got hurt.
Speaker 6: And he didn't kind of get screwed.
Speaker 4: Though.
Speaker 6: When Finn was saying he didn't get screwed, I was like,
Speaker 6: I don't know, man, like you can make an argument.
Speaker 6: He gets put on a different show with like no notice,
Speaker 6: he gets a mystery opponent, like there is you know whatever?
Speaker 1: Anyway, I yeah, yeah, for the sake of the story,
Speaker 1: Like I say, you get to choose what you talk about, right,
Speaker 1: I think you want Finn to say I got hurt.
Speaker 1: That's why I lost the title. Sammy, you'd got hurt.
Speaker 1: You didn't lose the title because you got hurt or
Speaker 1: you got screwed, but because you lost. And then the
Speaker 1: fans chance Sammy sucks. Sammy sucks, and that's what you
Speaker 1: want from that moment. So they chose the facts that
Speaker 1: would get them the chant, which was Sammy sucks. They
Speaker 1: got it and I love Sammy. Gonio Tho's on like
Speaker 1: fighting words and if I didn't respect you so much,
Speaker 1: I'd take you down right now, like, yeah, that's just classic,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, I mean I don't know. I mean that's
Speaker 1: just Sammy gets it and he's doing a good job.
Speaker 1: But then, yeah, you know, Grunther, you know, comes out
Speaker 1: and does make them look less then, and I don't.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't like that aspect of it. I
Speaker 1: think they saw it as a conduit to get oldest
Speaker 1: to run out and brawl and and have an intense fight.
Speaker 1: But if Cody and Punk are gonna do it, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I mean it's good to show fans all
Speaker 1: this can throw a punch and take a bump and
Speaker 1: has a move, So I get that, And I don't
Speaker 1: know how else you get there. I mean, there are
Speaker 1: other ways to get there. It just crossed my mind
Speaker 1: what it would be that would that would justify it,
Speaker 1: other than all this as a GM who has in
Speaker 1: his mind there's a right way to do things. Nunther
Speaker 1: shouldn't be attacking two wrestlers of a match tomorrow. Let
Speaker 1: me run out there now. I can't just yell at him,
Speaker 1: and I don't. I'm not limited to threatening fines and suspensions.
Speaker 1: I can actually beat them up for doing this. So
Speaker 1: I get I get the I get the rationale and
Speaker 1: the logic, but the side effect is Sammy and and
Speaker 1: Finn kind of look look like they were less then
Speaker 1: going into a number condemtorship match. That's the downside. And
Speaker 1: they didn't have a grilling match first. You know, had
Speaker 1: they had a grilling match would be one thing, but
Speaker 1: they you know, we're there, go.
Speaker 3: Ahead, have you. One mitigating thing was at least Goother
Speaker 3: had made it clear that he was going to go
Speaker 3: after them, that he was not going to abide a
Speaker 3: number one contender, so you know that that also alleviates
Speaker 3: things a little bit because like when it first happened,
Speaker 3: I was like really against it, and then I'm like, okay,
Speaker 3: well Gother did say I'm going to go after and
Speaker 3: ruin the match for whoever does it. And I also
Speaker 3: did like that they do get up and then go
Speaker 3: after Goother's you know, a particular battle doing the rundown,
Speaker 3: the you know, getting caught you know, on the camera,
Speaker 3: running down the ramp. So at least they got there,
Speaker 3: you know, something back, so they I think they were
Speaker 3: cognizant of that, and I think they did, you know,
Speaker 3: did some stuff to mitigate it, but it's still something
Speaker 3: that sticks in the craw where you know, you know,
Speaker 3: it does seem like they're lesser than you know, it's
Speaker 3: a lesser match than all this, and.
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Speaker 6: And they looked like flies kind of buzzing around him,
Speaker 6: and he was like swatting, swatting the mob I I didn't.
Speaker 6: I didn't like that the look there, but I did
Speaker 6: think that, like before that segment, that Finn Balor looked
Speaker 6: as great as a babyface as i'd seen him look
Speaker 6: since in the judgment day. His promo was on point,
Speaker 6: back and forth. Like Sammy, we've we've he praised on
Speaker 6: the past few weeks. He's great on the mic. He
Speaker 6: really believes in his character. He sells his character. Finn
Speaker 6: has to play off that. I thought he did a
Speaker 6: great job, so just giving him his flowers there. Wait
Speaker 6: Waite's kind of thought on this, you're on mute Wade.
Speaker 1: I put my fingers. I don't want you might flow
Speaker 1: into a final topic or something that I want to
Speaker 1: throw a couple of check comments up about some about
Speaker 1: this this segment. First, Derek Mitchell says, of course Gunther
Speaker 1: thinks he's rightful number one contender. I didn't mind him
Speaker 1: big footing Sammy and Finn. It should be expected as
Speaker 1: Gunther's character. It would have been odd if he didn't
Speaker 1: attack both of them. Sean Plitch just says, I disagree
Speaker 1: about guntherro attacking it made sense for his character, And
Speaker 1: Derek said, yeah, I totally gru with you about going Through,
Speaker 1: you expect him to attack both guys. Sean adds Wade,
Speaker 1: it made total sense why he did it. They don't
Speaker 1: look less than at all. It made sense for Gunther's character.
Speaker 1: So I want to clarify here it makes sense for
Speaker 1: Gunther's character. That's not our point. I don't think anyone's
Speaker 1: made that point. Show that it doesn't make sense for him.
Speaker 1: The ideas doesn't make sense to book him in a
Speaker 1: segment that does where one guy fresh is beating up
Speaker 1: two fresh guys who are both fighting to be number
Speaker 1: contended for a world title. Does that It makes sense
Speaker 1: for Gunther, But it also wasn't needed. It's not like wait,
Speaker 1: Sammy and Finn are arguing, where's Gunther? Like no one
Speaker 1: was thinking that. It's like you weren't. There wasn't an
Speaker 1: They weren't obliged to do it to protect the integrity
Speaker 1: of Guntherro's teal character. They hed run out there and
Speaker 1: attack him. They didn't call him out. So our point
Speaker 1: isn't it didn't make sense for gun Through. Our point
Speaker 1: is by doing something that made sense for Gunther, you
Speaker 1: paid a price that might not have been necessary to
Speaker 1: tell the story with Gunthro. If you told the stories
Speaker 1: going through a different way. Is that fair Crofton?
Speaker 6: Absolutely, And like, I totally think it makes sense for
Speaker 6: the Gunther character. I just think I wouldn't have booked this.
Speaker 6: I would have booked like also, he's looking past nick
Speaker 6: All this and I get it, nick All, this is
Speaker 6: the GM, but that's the book. That's that's the match
Speaker 6: that's booked for Summer Slam. And I would have preferred, say,
Speaker 6: tonight had had this segment happened with Finn and Sammy
Speaker 6: and then following it, you know, nick All, this came
Speaker 6: out to cut a promo in the middle of the
Speaker 6: ring to like sell who he is as a wrestler,
Speaker 6: and and and uh you know you could you could
Speaker 6: even have that package that they showed backstage as well.
Speaker 1: I don't, Yeah, exactly, Luther can walk out and go
Speaker 1: enough of the past, enough of the minor league, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then beat.
Speaker 6: Up on all this, right, Like that's the match that
Speaker 6: they're trying to sell for the second biggest show of
Speaker 6: the year. So it's just again I do agree like
Speaker 6: Gunther is a character, makes sense for him to attack
Speaker 6: these guys. I just don't think that this is how
Speaker 6: I would have booked the show. To go because it
Speaker 6: makes the number one can potential next number one contenders
Speaker 6: look less than the the The last, just last topic
Speaker 6: I wanted to talk about was just Haku coming back
Speaker 6: with the m FTS. And I will be honest, I
Speaker 6: was concerned for the m f T s. I thought
Speaker 6: when they split with Solo that it might they might
Speaker 6: be joining future endeavors like it really it really did not.
Speaker 6: I'm not sure what what the plan was. And they'd
Speaker 6: already lost half their crew and and and so they
Speaker 6: had mentioned the Elders previously, and and to see uh
Speaker 6: Haku on screen as a character I think is cool
Speaker 6: and I think is something that really would have I
Speaker 6: am surprised that they didn't do more of in the
Speaker 6: first generation of the Bloodline, like have have folks come
Speaker 6: come on screen like that that were, you know, familiar
Speaker 6: with in the Greater universe, uh of the of the Bloodline.
Speaker 6: But I think this, this would be this would be
Speaker 6: good for them. I'm not sure about his mobility. He
Speaker 6: looked a little bit like, I don't know, he looks
Speaker 6: great visually, I'm not sure what his ages and how
Speaker 6: will he moves in the ring or if this isn't
Speaker 6: tall ask for him to travel around with them. I
Speaker 6: thought at first he was just going to be in
Speaker 6: that segment on the screen and not actually be there.
Speaker 6: When he was actually there, I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 6: he is going to be part of this moving forward.
Speaker 6: But I liked it. I'm wondering what you guys thought.
Speaker 3: How you well, back to the opening segment. The tongue
Speaker 3: in thing made me happy for Ballort because I'm pulling
Speaker 3: for Ballad to win on SummerSlam, but because he still
Speaker 3: has you know, he had been feuding with Tomatonga and Tala.
Speaker 3: I like, well, you know, Ballert can lose and then
Speaker 3: just go back to that feud. But because it looks
Speaker 3: like the Tongueans are moving on, I'm like, hey, now
Speaker 3: Ballot doesn't have anything, so maybe he might win. So
Speaker 3: that made me happy because I'd like for them to
Speaker 3: give him a hard you know, push and see what
Speaker 3: he can do because I think he's very charismatic. He's
Speaker 3: still got something. Maybe you know, you could go back
Speaker 3: to him winning in that you know, and and fix history,
Speaker 3: so to speak. He might be someone that you know,
Speaker 3: one of your top guys.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: So I'm hoping gets at least a chance to you
Speaker 3: know taste that as far as the Tongue is concerned.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: They obviously have. They have belief in Tomatoma. He's got charisma,
Speaker 3: he fits the stuff that they're doing, and I like
Speaker 3: that of them just going, you know, just being a
Speaker 3: straight up tag team with the caveat if they start
Speaker 3: pushing their tag team division, which has completely vanished off
Speaker 3: the face of the earth. So yeah, so so I'm
Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to what they do with them, hoping
Speaker 3: that the war Raiders get it. Looks like you're trying
Speaker 3: to do something with the war Raiders too. Only problem
Speaker 3: is that war Raiders have been around for such a
Speaker 3: long period of time that that mystique of invincibility. I
Speaker 3: know they're trying to catch catch that again, but you
Speaker 3: know it's hard, particularly when the other for on the
Speaker 3: with the July one, they did the eating thing again.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Uh you know, uh a call back to the Turkey
Speaker 3: leg back during the the the Performance Center. Uh time.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Harby, are we supposed to be cheering the Tongans,
Speaker 1: attacking the war Raiders or resenting them for attacking Damian
Speaker 1: priestint our truth or something else.
Speaker 3: Uh, We're just supposed to be afraid of them, so
Speaker 3: and that and and which, Well, their aggression is supposed
Speaker 3: to be a negative trade. At the same time, the
Speaker 3: fact that they're going to stick up, you know, they're
Speaker 3: going to attack a stronger a stronger team like the
Speaker 3: Viking Raiders a positive trade. The way they're talking seems
Speaker 3: it's negative. So I think we're supposed to believe they're
Speaker 3: they're they're negative. You know they're there's meaning you know,
Speaker 3: the heels or you know the yeah. So I think
Speaker 3: I think that's why because everyone and I don't know,
Speaker 3: I don't know where the war Raiders are.
Speaker 1: I don't know that that always is the real craft
Speaker 1: in but go ahead.
Speaker 6: No, but I mean in this match specifically, like the
Speaker 6: Damian Priests and Our Truth are clearly babyfaced unless I've
Speaker 6: misread comedy. And then the the and the the Viking
Speaker 6: war Raiders are.
Speaker 1: Don't confuse me.
Speaker 6: Have been presented at as like, you know, honorable challengers.
Speaker 6: They go backstage, they meet Our Truth and Damien, are
Speaker 6: you ready to fight for these titles?
Speaker 3: Let's let's do title for title.
Speaker 6: Match, and and like so I don't like they're all
Speaker 6: good guys, and then these bad guys come in ruin
Speaker 6: the match and like beat them up.
Speaker 2: I thought they were.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 1: No, that I think that's the answered my question fairly.
Speaker 1: Why should we just they're talking about it sort of
Speaker 1: like carpent Hey, he has all these metals and he's
Speaker 1: a savvy veteran, Hako dangerous, you know, like he's he's
Speaker 1: one of the uh one of these these respected veterans
Speaker 1: and elder who you know, is gonna like what why
Speaker 1: are we like? Okay, they interferit in a match, like,
Speaker 1: but why do we dislike them? I mean, Tom Tama
Speaker 1: hasn't seen they turned on Solo when Solo was a heel.
Speaker 1: Sola's a face. Now is that right? I mean liked
Speaker 1: or is it too ambiguous to say when they broke
Speaker 1: up a solo?
Speaker 3: We'll talk about that. Okay, we get to talk about them.
Speaker 3: I have a lot of the you know that quite
Speaker 3: a complicated one.
Speaker 1: Yeah. My point is that when they when I don't
Speaker 1: believe Tama and Tala come have come across as definitive heels,
Speaker 1: there could be something that's.
Speaker 3: Just well attach valory yeah, oh yeah, ok. Because they
Speaker 3: did they did the say, uh you know, they that
Speaker 3: he had been thinking about it and I talked to
Speaker 3: the elders and then he attacked.
Speaker 1: Them, and yeah, no, you're right, so that that is
Speaker 1: that is something I forgot I wasn't incorporating in So okay,
Speaker 1: so hopefully w does their job and doesn't leave me
Speaker 1: if I forget one angle like looking at them, going, well,
Speaker 1: they're kind of cool, they're kind of badass, Like right
Speaker 1: now tonight they were cool and badass with this elder.
Speaker 1: That's tree kind of my larger point, and so it's like, ah,
Speaker 1: you know what, I don't know, just like I'm craving them,
Speaker 1: choosing things that emphasize traits that will allow us that
Speaker 1: they'll encourage my emotions to naturally move to boo them.
Speaker 1: And tonight tonight I was like, Oh, how cool. They're
Speaker 1: bad assets. They're gonna bring the tech division back up
Speaker 1: and they're gonna shake things up. So anyway, I don't
Speaker 1: believe that I would say.
Speaker 6: Way that that is almost your reaction. There is testament
Speaker 6: to how little they have done with the war Viking Raiders,
Speaker 6: Like they essentially like the fact that you don't know
Speaker 6: what their alignment is to me makes perfect sense. Like
Speaker 6: they're barely on TV, and when they are, it's in
Speaker 6: backstage segments or now they're in triple A or they're
Speaker 6: not in you know, like so for for me, and
Speaker 6: this was I'm giving them some grace. The film show
Speaker 6: before a two night stadium pay per view, so a
Speaker 6: lot of people are on the card for that, so like,
Speaker 6: obviously they were gonna have matches tonight with people that
Speaker 6: might not normally have a match on SmackDown, or I
Speaker 6: don't think there was any build for this title versus
Speaker 6: title match, So I'm really like in terms of promotion,
Speaker 6: So I'm really glad that it was a schmas finished
Speaker 6: because if they had just given away a title versus
Speaker 6: title match that had led to the you know, one
Speaker 6: team having both titles without even advertising it or promoting
Speaker 6: it previously, I would have been very frustrated by that.
Speaker 6: But the fact that it ended, you know, it ended
Speaker 6: the way that it did and is leading to something
Speaker 6: else I think is better. And I also didn't like
Speaker 6: the idea of one team having both those those typles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was like, are they really gonna merge them?
Speaker 1: So a couple of Jack comments and then I have
Speaker 1: someone to say. Azan says the attack finvalor, Yes, we
Speaker 1: brought that up to them and give them credit. King
Speaker 1: of the North p W says, why are they hails
Speaker 1: for taking the best route to success? If you're talking
Speaker 1: about the Tongans, it should be the best route to success.
Speaker 1: Should not be attacking people outside the outside of the ring,
Speaker 1: Like you that the culture of the presentation is as
Speaker 1: dull people's senses to the idea that an attack outside
Speaker 1: the ring is actually should be frowned upon, Like there's
Speaker 1: a ring, there's ropes, you step in the bell rings
Speaker 1: and then you fight. You don't sneak attack to you know,
Speaker 1: two pairs are exhausted. I don't think that's what King
Speaker 1: of the North was referring to. But Sean Plush says,
Speaker 1: is on, they've definitely been acting heelis who knows what
Speaker 1: that would be as a whole though, and Goodfella says,
Speaker 1: I know the Viking Raiders more from NXT and Triple A,
Speaker 1: and Durrell says war Raiders are the heel. They've been
Speaker 1: shown as heels building up to this match, and they
Speaker 1: are heels in Triple A. They also shove the raft
Speaker 1: out of the way when they were double teaming, like
Speaker 1: that was a you know that like that's something generally
Speaker 1: baby face that don't do they don't. I mean, they
Speaker 1: can show a temper, but they that felt a little
Speaker 1: that's felt more like a heel spot than the than
Speaker 1: the referee was a heel So there's some.
Speaker 2: So did though?
Speaker 1: What's that so did? Priest?
Speaker 2: In our truth?
Speaker 6: They were there, there was two shops to the okay,
Speaker 6: that's what led to the DQ.
Speaker 1: Was it a double DQ? Or did presearch truth win
Speaker 1: by DQ?
Speaker 6: I don't know what they just ring the bell wide?
Speaker 6: How the hell am I supposed to know?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, but my head.
Speaker 6: Yeah I know, I I hear. I totally understand why
Speaker 6: that would be the case. Thank you, gentlemen, both for
Speaker 6: your time. Uh and uh I'll let Darell on and
Speaker 6: whoever else is is calling. Thanks for a great show.
Speaker 6: Is always great to talk to you both.
Speaker 1: Thanks Rapin appreciate it. Cheers always good. King of the
Speaker 1: North p W says what happened to the Viking experience?
Speaker 1: They dropped that name because it sounded like what somebody
Speaker 1: dressed as a Viking after a few too many drinks
Speaker 1: would say to a woman at a bar, or guy, hey,
Speaker 1: would you like a Viking experience like it? Just it
Speaker 1: sounded so it just was lame.
Speaker 3: Finisher though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's better than it being the team name,
Speaker 1: because at least it is something it's not left to
Speaker 1: your imagination.
Speaker 3: Well, you like a ride, so you know.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, all right, let's bring Derell into the conversation. Droll, welcome,
Speaker 1: good to see you, go to hear from you.
Speaker 2: What's up? All right? How y'all guys doing tonight? Enjoying
Speaker 2: y'all conversation?
Speaker 1: Good? Thanks, we try.
Speaker 2: Yeah tonight.
Speaker 8: But yeah, the piggyback on which I was just talking about,
Speaker 8: I think they were just bringing on the MFTs when
Speaker 8: they brought out Haku, just to bring a new new
Speaker 8: type of toughness in a direction for them to go into.
Speaker 8: So right now that we don't know what they are
Speaker 8: until they show us who they are, but they were
Speaker 8: just trying to go after go.
Speaker 2: Hopefully they put some emphasis back on the tag team
Speaker 2: to Bitcheon.
Speaker 1: Maybe my argument is is I don't like that two
Speaker 1: wrestlers attacking four wrestlers after they just had a match
Speaker 1: can be seen as neutral and to be determined. I
Speaker 1: think that should be a heel move unless those teams
Speaker 1: did something to you. I think that should be built
Speaker 1: into the culture and embedded and how how fans are
Speaker 1: expected to interpret things. Number two, that's not the culture
Speaker 1: of the presentation for twenty years. So the fans, of
Speaker 1: course are going to be like, these guys are badasses
Speaker 1: and they're cool. They just are they're asserting themselves. And
Speaker 1: you know what Michael Cole, like the commentary lately is
Speaker 1: rewarding heels and baby faces for things that they whatever.
Speaker 1: So my point is they're coming across as badass doing
Speaker 1: what they need to do to insert themselves into the
Speaker 1: title picture. To use Michael Cole's quote about the women's
Speaker 1: take division. So how about we like figure out what
Speaker 1: we want fans to think is honorable and dishonorable. And
Speaker 1: how about if they're gonna be badasses, let's make sure
Speaker 1: we frame them as heels. If they're gonna be babyfaces
Speaker 1: by attacking wrestlers, let's make sure that they're attacking heels
Speaker 1: who have done something wrong and they had a coming
Speaker 1: instead of just want to be cool if we did this,
Speaker 1: I want to be cool. If cops got beat up,
Speaker 1: you know, like, no, it's not cool. If there's no
Speaker 1: real world ramifications for it. It's just stupid. It's a
Speaker 1: it's a Looney Tunes road runner cartoon, you know. And
Speaker 1: Bill hits his head, but he's back in the next scene.
Speaker 1: It's stupid. This feels like they just want them to
Speaker 1: be badasses. And I'm an advocate, and almost every circumstance,
Speaker 1: let's let's give people a reason to either cheer and
Speaker 1: root for them or root against them. And tonight I
Speaker 1: didn't see that. And wherever they land, there's going to
Speaker 1: be things that are contradictory because they're cool badasses who
Speaker 1: are about to kick ass, and they got Hakku in
Speaker 1: their corner. To me, it's why the road where's in
Speaker 1: nineteen In the mid nineteen eighties and the eight wa
Speaker 1: the fans cheered them because they're cool badasses. They're supposed
Speaker 1: to be heels, and fans are like, oh, we like
Speaker 1: these guys. Ho Cogan came in as a hilt at
Speaker 1: Awa before Hocmenio was born, and fans like, this guy's
Speaker 1: pretty charismatic. He's a movie star. Let's cheer this guy.
Speaker 1: So I don't whatever they're trying to do, if they're
Speaker 1: even thinking it through, they might not have a choice.
Speaker 1: The fans might cheer them. I don't want to be
Speaker 1: a baby face opponent to them right now, I'll put
Speaker 1: it that way.
Speaker 9: Hey everyone, long time PW Torch commist Sean raddikin here
Speaker 9: to let you know I've rebamped and renewed their Atticant
Speaker 9: Worldwide podcast for twenty twenty six, a weekly VIP exclusive.
Speaker 9: Every week, I break down four or five of the
Speaker 9: biggest trending topics in pro wrestling. I also present my analysis,
Speaker 9: providing insight that helps you understand the story better or
Speaker 9: see it another way. Then maybe is the controversial takeout there?
Speaker 9: Then I bring on a special guest for the second
Speaker 9: half of the podcast. Sometimes it's a wrestler or someone
Speaker 9: else who works in the business. Other times it's a
Speaker 9: guest analyst who brings their specialized point of view at
Speaker 9: a particular key topic in the news. Recent guests have
Speaker 9: included Bronson Reid from WWE and PCO. One of my
Speaker 9: areas of specialty is the Japan wrestling scene, so I
Speaker 9: often cover a big topic from Japan with PW Torch,
Speaker 9: his own, Alan Farrell, Kelly Wells, and Chris Lansdell. I
Speaker 9: don't just cover the news. I don't just riff on
Speaker 9: the news. Or give a standard hot take. I bring
Speaker 9: my decades of studying this industry and talking one on
Speaker 9: one with dozens of wrestling promoters to each week's show
Speaker 9: so you understand not just what's happening, but the context
Speaker 9: of why get ahead of the news, get ahead of
Speaker 9: the pack with radicking worldwide only at PW Torch Vipe.
Speaker 3: I don't think there. I don't think there are any
Speaker 3: like baby faced teams for really, you know, for you
Speaker 3: really get to get to them to particularly SmackDown. I mean, uh,
Speaker 3: Priests and and and Our Truth are just like a
Speaker 3: tack team of convenience for the time being, long convenience,
Speaker 3: but that's what they are, you know. I'm I'm already
Speaker 3: I'm already missing the machine gunsters. Those are people that
Speaker 3: you could actually have gotten people to cheer for against
Speaker 3: the Tongans. But I don't see any other group except
Speaker 3: for maybe uh maybe street profits.
Speaker 8: Yeah, maybe give them to be bad asses and just
Speaker 8: bring team out the team after them, and like you
Speaker 8: were saying earlier, way one match, to give people one match,
Speaker 8: one few and just keep going on until you can
Speaker 8: build something up that feels like a robbery, because that's
Speaker 8: a story to be told to see who they who
Speaker 8: can build up to fight them, to push them to
Speaker 8: something else in the Northeast.
Speaker 1: As Kenny says, you have to attack people in this
Speaker 1: company title matchic because you don't earn those by winning matches,
Speaker 1: and sehn Plitch just says, please just define who they are.
Speaker 1: Daurren Mitchell points out, by the way that for those
Speaker 1: wondering how Ku is sixty seven years old while we're
Speaker 1: at it, just hang out a second, Durell. We had
Speaker 1: a super chat that I want to honor and get
Speaker 1: to not too late, Derek said earlier, Thank you Derek
Speaker 1: for the super chat. Everyone's about a super chat after
Speaker 1: this weekends to night SummerSlam. There's a Sunday Night main
Speaker 1: event on September six, Money in the Bank on October tenth,
Speaker 1: and then Survivor Series War Games on November twenty eighth
Speaker 1: for the remainder of the year. So things lighten up
Speaker 1: to a degree after this early Summer Slam. And then
Speaker 1: was there another super chat? Yeah, Derek Mitchell, thank you again, Derek,
Speaker 1: super generous, appreciate it. I'd like to see Cody turnheel
Speaker 1: one day and not wait almost twenty years like Sina did.
Speaker 1: An elimination chamber, and it fizzled after that. I wish
Speaker 1: I put that in earlier. Maybe we'll cover that again later, Derek,
Speaker 1: because yes, you don't want to wait too long, but
Speaker 1: you know I'm in no rush. But there is something
Speaker 1: compelling about Cody in his prime being a heel because
Speaker 1: I think he has an enemy's been resistance, So don't
Speaker 1: wait too long. Make some money with it, and have
Speaker 1: it be when Cody's still good and it's not like
Speaker 1: a desperation move. But I also don't feel there's a rush.
Speaker 1: Do you want to comment on that and then get
Speaker 1: back to whatever you're gonna Saylor was.
Speaker 2: Yes, I sure would.
Speaker 8: I wouldn't mind seeing Cody as a heel, but when
Speaker 8: it comes to just changing him, I need somebody who
Speaker 8: can feel it in his spot. And once he go here,
Speaker 8: you need a face or babyface who can rival him
Speaker 8: to a point. So don't be something quick and then
Speaker 8: you don't get the fans turning him back babyface, because
Speaker 8: now you done got it. He seemed more cooler now
Speaker 8: because he's a heel and stuff like that. I don't
Speaker 8: want that back and forth. I want them to have
Speaker 8: somebody who can take his spot, and then when you
Speaker 8: turn him over, he could be he'll and have somebody
Speaker 8: to go against and compare contrast will and let him
Speaker 8: be the only person who turned the whole year. If
Speaker 8: they go and he's the only person who turned that
Speaker 8: whole year and it's the only turn their whole year,
Speaker 8: they'll be good with me.
Speaker 4: I like it.
Speaker 1: Another super chat from Derek based on the two world
Speaker 1: title matches that summer Slam Cody versus punkin Roman versus Seth,
Speaker 1: I'm fairly certain that neither champion will drop their respective titles. Derek,
Speaker 1: thank you again for the super chat. Mean not very much,
Speaker 1: so Punk and Roman retain. I mean, how you I
Speaker 1: haven't ready your piece, but that's I think we've indicated
Speaker 1: that's where you're leaning.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have Yeah, Punk and Roman. I do have
Speaker 3: a scenario for Seth winning though.
Speaker 1: In your column. Yes, let's tease that. Read it in
Speaker 1: the column we got We're running along. There's a reason
Speaker 1: to read your column beyond that. But that's a good hook.
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to reading that later. D You better
Speaker 1: added it. You better reset a revise copy for that promise. Joe,
Speaker 1: what do you think?
Speaker 8: M Yeah, I think they both retained right now, you
Speaker 8: got something with Punk and tonight, you start building stories
Speaker 8: for after SummerSlam with what you allowed Punk to say
Speaker 8: in the ring and what he was doing backstage, like
Speaker 8: when he met up with Trick and stuff like that.
Speaker 8: He's been building stories for himself and that title also,
Speaker 8: and I liked that portion of And that's something that
Speaker 8: I wanted to talk about, was the stories. I think
Speaker 8: tonight with Punk, they was able to tell a story
Speaker 8: that for further that match, that made it more appealing.
Speaker 8: But they also with him told stories for after SummerSlam
Speaker 8: that you can go into even with if let's say
Speaker 8: Sammy Win or Finn Wins or something like that or whoever.
Speaker 8: I liked what they did tonight, and that's what I
Speaker 8: want them to get back to instead of being all
Speaker 8: meta and saying the other things. I want to get
Speaker 8: back to that is not the wrong with that, and
Speaker 8: making the title feel important, the title feel important that
Speaker 8: now that match even more feels even more important.
Speaker 3: Javier, I was, yes, Courty, I did write it into
Speaker 3: sorry because I had to do. I don't want to
Speaker 3: disappoint anybody good.
Speaker 1: What about Drell's point?
Speaker 3: What was I'm sorry here?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah?
Speaker 1: Reading on peace. I'm trying to let him go first
Speaker 1: on this.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry it happens. I tried to do two things
Speaker 3: at once. I can't walk into goms.
Speaker 1: Sean has a super chat hold on Drell. Everyone, GOVI,
Speaker 1: IP and Derek please call in one of these days.
Speaker 1: SummerSlam can be very good, and try to truly hope
Speaker 1: it delivers. Give EO and live enough time. Thank you
Speaker 1: Sean for super chat. Much appreciated. All right, Drell, you've
Speaker 1: got your thoughts. Hobber is paying attention. What would you
Speaker 1: like Hobby Arder respond to? And then I will also
Speaker 1: ultimately chine in the.
Speaker 8: Story that they were telling tonight, the resetting of the story,
Speaker 8: how they used punk to increase the story with him
Speaker 8: and Cody and set a story for that title that
Speaker 8: he's holding and he probably hold out the SummerSlam and
Speaker 8: stores going forward with that because he built up stores
Speaker 8: all night with new challenges and everything.
Speaker 2: How you feel about that, yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean particularly since they they've set up I mean
Speaker 3: seampunk get a good thing where he when he listed
Speaker 3: all the people he wanted he wanted to face, so
Speaker 3: that already has your idea that you have the trick
Speaker 3: Williams crossover particular since he already has a title and
Speaker 3: they played the whole idea of you know, two boats
Speaker 3: trick all that stuff, you know, like likes been mentioned before.
Speaker 3: It makes the title seem as the goal that that's important.
Speaker 3: They had done that a lot when it was the
Speaker 3: title on raw, and yeah, it makes it makes the
Speaker 3: title important, the thing with a raw because you could
Speaker 3: also have it where the guy is important. So Okada
Speaker 3: in New Japan for example, he was a champion, and
Speaker 3: so it wasn't just winning the title, it was also
Speaker 3: beating Okada, you know, with Roman Rands in his long run,
Speaker 3: it wasn't just winning the title. It was also beating
Speaker 3: Roman Rands. So it's one of those cases of like
Speaker 3: you know, sometimes it's sometimes the title makes the man,
Speaker 3: sometimes the man makes the title kind kind of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I talked earlier about it quite a bit drill,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I like we saw in a w you know,
Speaker 1: a multiple challenge the champ he them, you talking about
Speaker 1: multiple challengers lining things up. I think they have made
Speaker 1: us and think about Cody Punk being important not just
Speaker 1: because of Cody Punk, but because we have in our
Speaker 1: mind potential matches afterwards and they're completely different depending on
Speaker 1: who wins. I don't know that we're for sure going
Speaker 1: to get a clean finish and move right onto it
Speaker 1: like good Fella' says Trick versus Punk. I'm here for
Speaker 1: I think there is an excitement to see fresh matches
Speaker 1: and fresh opponents, and they're teasing us with it, and
Speaker 1: I think they ought to deliver on that. Anything else
Speaker 1: you want to say on Natarrell or respond to.
Speaker 8: Oh no, no, not really, I can go because this
Speaker 8: transition to the next thing, I think they should go
Speaker 8: ahead and put the the interim title back on probably
Speaker 8: Jade because right now that women's division, she has been
Speaker 8: the division, even though they had Ria off TV. She
Speaker 8: has been the circuit, the piece that everybody can circle around,
Speaker 8: the sun that everybody can go around. And also she
Speaker 8: has made it to a point where you got people
Speaker 8: who really cheering for Charlotte and want to see Charlotte
Speaker 8: being do something that they've been trying to do with
Speaker 8: her for years and make her feel like a babyface.
Speaker 8: And I think you have a challenger with stories to
Speaker 8: tell where Charlotte can be chasing her even though if
Speaker 8: you're gonna do the interim champion versus the champion. If
Speaker 8: even if you let Jay win and give Grill some
Speaker 8: time also she can heal completely. You got a ready
Speaker 8: made story of Charlotte chasing her and then once a
Speaker 8: Lexa Blizz come back, there going another challenger until you
Speaker 8: can continue to do challenges in stories.
Speaker 2: That's what was the theme for me tonight.
Speaker 8: That's why I want to see and they gave them
Speaker 8: a big showcase outside of everybody else who in that match,
Speaker 8: that ladder match, it seemed like those two were the
Speaker 8: biggest stories of that match, which I think.
Speaker 1: It made me think watching that would Summer Slant how
Speaker 1: much stronger woul SummerSlam Field. They didn't just have a
Speaker 1: five or six person ladder match for some phony title
Speaker 1: that we don't need. Instead, it was just Charlotte jed,
Speaker 1: No title needed. That could have been the step no
Speaker 1: champion Chip needed. It's just an epic match between these
Speaker 1: two made for posters, superstars in the women's division. Jade's
Speaker 1: an example of somebody who fans kind of wanted to cheer,
Speaker 1: but they found a way to get her booed, and
Speaker 1: Charlott's an example somebody fans kind of wanted to boo
Speaker 1: but they found a way to get her cheered. You
Speaker 1: can steer people, and I think the Fabin Mechen have
Speaker 1: helped in that regard, and obviously Lexa Bliss has helped Charlotte.
Speaker 1: I think that match in the angle they did tonight,
Speaker 1: maybe me want to see a one on one match
Speaker 1: with them. Javier on this topic, Yeah, we're going to
Speaker 1: get to that.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's gonna be for the championship or
Speaker 3: the interim Championship. I think they're gonna both take each
Speaker 3: other out of the match, and I'm thinking that it
Speaker 3: opens up to either Chelsea for a feel good kind
Speaker 3: of kind of thing or Lash Legend. That's why I
Speaker 3: had to wait for this to come out because I
Speaker 3: think I think that whoever it comes out, I because
Speaker 3: the I think the reason to go with the interim
Speaker 3: thing is because I think Ria is gonna come back
Speaker 3: rather soon. Is she just couldn't make it to SummerSlam.
Speaker 3: So I'm thinking if with if you know last Legend
Speaker 3: is someone you know, you can put it on her,
Speaker 3: see what she can do, and then just have Rea
Speaker 3: beat her, because I think ultimately we're gonna end up
Speaker 3: seeing a champion versus champion EO versus versus Reha down
Speaker 3: the road. So I think it's just gonna be a
Speaker 3: you know, I think this is just gonna be a
Speaker 3: whoever it's gonna win. The interim is Legit just gonna
Speaker 3: be a interim title. And you can see what you
Speaker 3: got with last legend in that case particular, since Naya
Speaker 3: Jacks was screwed over twice over the whole situation. That's
Speaker 3: hero taging partner. So you know you've got stuff you
Speaker 3: can do there. So that's why I have I have
Speaker 3: a Green as my number, as Green and Lash as
Speaker 3: the two most likely to come out of that.
Speaker 1: So in the chat, good Fellaw says, gimme Chelsea please,
Speaker 1: a short run is fine? Good Fellaw says, yeah, Jaden
Speaker 1: Flayer take each other out. Sean Plitz just says, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm okay with that. Chelsea is just a blast piledriver pizzas.
Speaker 1: I'd be so happy for a Chelsea Green Toad to
Speaker 1: run no matter how long. Pilderver petad she could, she
Speaker 1: could and would break about being a former champion forever.
Speaker 1: Sean plitchten notes, if Charlotte has a match like that,
Speaker 1: you better deliver, because her TV matches have not been good.
Speaker 1: Goodfella says let her be the Queen of handling press,
Speaker 1: meaning Chelsea give her respect to I'm a big fan
Speaker 1: of her art, and Mafay says the Chelsea Chat, you
Speaker 1: all are getting my hopes up. Okay, how do we
Speaker 1: reconcile all that hope with how they treated her in
Speaker 1: the tag match of Tiffany against Meechen and Bfab where
Speaker 1: in seven minutes she was kinda like not treated as
Speaker 1: a as a serious you know, a serious threat, and
Speaker 1: Barrett said it was basically a mugging. They're not framing
Speaker 1: her as like somebody you would expect to be champion. Now,
Speaker 1: sometimes that can be a feature, not a flaw in
Speaker 1: how they frame somebody. But I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: haber is is, would Chelsea just seem like a fluke
Speaker 1: champion and she can't even believe she's holding it and
Speaker 1: it's just a matter of time before she loses it?
Speaker 1: And that would be the story because they're not exactly
Speaker 1: telling a story in the ring of Look she's getting better,
Speaker 1: look at that move, she's man handling the bigger Beefab
Speaker 1: like the commentary is and telling that story.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it'll be a Fluke, you have drama
Speaker 3: between her and Stratton because now you know they're they're
Speaker 3: I don't buy the fact of Stratton as she's her friend,
Speaker 3: so you can have jealousy there, you know.
Speaker 6: And what is.
Speaker 3: Haber?
Speaker 1: Do you think you missed a chapter there by the way,
Speaker 1: like in Tiffany suddenly just loving Chelsea as her best
Speaker 1: friend because feels like I missed the chapter two.
Speaker 3: And yes, because I actually had to go back and
Speaker 3: fix the primer because I wrote like I wrote that
Speaker 3: are they you know? They have like sort of like
Speaker 3: almost a budding friendship kind of cup coming out and
Speaker 3: they came out and matching, and the commentary was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: they're best of friends. I'm like, it's something.
Speaker 1: It's like a like a guy asks a some woman
Speaker 1: out and it's like she's like, I don't know. And
Speaker 1: then they go to first date and like how was it?
Speaker 1: I'm not sure? And then you see her the next
Speaker 1: next week day at work and she's like, oh, here's
Speaker 1: my wedding invitation, Like where did that come from? You
Speaker 1: weren't sure about this guy like twenty four hours ago,
Speaker 1: Like Tiffany wasn't sure about her a week ago, and
Speaker 1: suddenly they're just playing patty cake and delighted, delighted with
Speaker 1: each other's company.
Speaker 3: So I'm glad, I'm I'm glad I was not the
Speaker 3: only one for juses, I binged everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep. Before pushing play on the Waight Keller Pro
Speaker 1: Wrestling post shows, check out pw torch dot com and
Speaker 1: our TV review section and skim through a full rundown
Speaker 1: of the TV show if you didn't see it. That's
Speaker 1: your way to get an overview of what happened before
Speaker 1: you dive into our in depth analysis of the key
Speaker 1: happenings on the show. That's pw torch dot com. You're
Speaker 1: home for a lot. I have TV coverage every Monday,
Speaker 1: Wednesday and Friday with my TV Reports, and also check
Speaker 1: out our NXT and Impact coverage on Tuesdays and Thursdays,
Speaker 1: our Collision reports on Saturday nights, and of course our
Speaker 1: live pay per view and PLE coverage on weekends, all
Speaker 1: waiting for you at PW torch dot com. All right,
Speaker 1: uh D comment out of that or or move on
Speaker 1: to whatever you want.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and I think they're going to use that friendship
Speaker 8: as a story that they're telling with Blake Monroe coming
Speaker 8: at tiffing and beating both of them up and using
Speaker 8: that as something that she can use.
Speaker 1: Well, they that was that felt like that was going
Speaker 1: to lead to a chapter that was missing before they
Speaker 1: just suddenly were besties. That's the point, Like I get,
Speaker 1: there's a they definitely were telling that story. And then
Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, yeah, like I would. Did I
Speaker 1: put the bookmark in the wrong place in the book
Speaker 1: the last time I set it down? Is what I
Speaker 1: thought when all of a sudden they're just best friends,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, maybe it was online and I'm supposed
Speaker 1: to have seen like a whatever, No, it not huge deal.
Speaker 1: It's just kind of I'm to one pointing that out.
Speaker 1: But I thought, howvier speeding through stuff or not speeding
Speaker 1: but you know, catching up. People be like, wait, did
Speaker 1: I miss something because it's all fresh in your mind.
Speaker 3: I thought I did too.
Speaker 8: I'm like, you know, hey, I've been watching it and
Speaker 8: I and I thought I missed something. I thought somebody
Speaker 8: took a couple of pages out of the book and
Speaker 8: I don't. I didn't know it was ever there.
Speaker 1: But maybe it's insincere and that's part of it. And
Speaker 1: Chelsea's being taken right by the way. Chasey Scooby says
Speaker 1: Chelsea would win a ladder match and be champed. They'd
Speaker 1: both uh, they both he and when she didn't win
Speaker 1: money of the banks several years ago. Not sure what
Speaker 1: we're just missing there. Pother for Pizze says Chelsea's in
Speaker 1: ring is not the best, but the people have chosen
Speaker 1: her and uh. Sadler says, Chelsea's a great character, but
Speaker 1: is she a top champion material. It'd be like our
Speaker 1: truth winning the doub to be title, if we're to
Speaker 1: be honest in okay fabe, Yes, it's it's.
Speaker 3: The interim title, so it doesn't really that's that's how
Speaker 3: you get away with giving it to her.
Speaker 1: Well, yes and no, I mean I get what you're
Speaker 1: saying in a certain sense, but it's still Chelsea holding
Speaker 1: a title that she won. But if you say, well,
Speaker 1: in a ladder match, you can win by fluke, And
Speaker 1: the story is she's interim champed because she want to
Speaker 1: match with the fluke when everyone else just knocked each
Speaker 1: other down, and she's holding it like I can't believe you,
Speaker 1: Like you know, like a T shirt gets thrown into
Speaker 1: a crowd and some lady wasn't paying attention. It's just, oh,
Speaker 1: I got the T shirt, Like she almost look at
Speaker 1: it like where did this come from? But I'm delighted
Speaker 1: by it. And then then the story is, yeah, she's
Speaker 1: not gonna keep it and and somehow she manages to
Speaker 1: until Tiffy turns on her or something because Tiffy's jealous.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Now I'm getting way ahead of myself.
Speaker 1: Let's see Tiffany. Derek Mischer says Tiffany was putting off
Speaker 1: Chelsea like Warren Winslow did to Steve Erkele on family matters.
Speaker 1: That's for other people to uh get, because I don't
Speaker 1: all right, Sadler says, it's it's still Chelsea being top
Speaker 1: Champ interim or not. That's kind of my point. It's
Speaker 1: like you're still you can say the title doesn't matter
Speaker 1: as much, so it's not part of the lineage, but
Speaker 1: it's still a story you're telling for somebody that wins.
Speaker 1: But because of the latter match, she's not beating Jade
Speaker 1: one on. I don't know. I'm I am not against it.
Speaker 1: I am more trying to temper too much hope, but
Speaker 1: I don't know. It could be they're trying to throw
Speaker 1: you off the scent. Somebody said that, Yeah, Sean Pusher said,
Speaker 1: taking you away from the scent wade. So there we are,
Speaker 1: all right, what else for us?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so y'all cover really all the topics. I like
Speaker 2: the thing with Nick. I like the.
Speaker 8: And then with some of them videos from tn A
Speaker 8: and stuff like that. But I think you and Todd
Speaker 8: talked about this the moment that Nick all this need.
Speaker 8: I think we got that tonight when he was able
Speaker 8: to amp up a little bit and then put the
Speaker 8: cold leaf on on on Guta. I think that was
Speaker 8: much needed. Then you've seen the crowd op that and
Speaker 8: get behind him, and that was needed and they did
Speaker 8: it at the right time. So outside of Guta coming
Speaker 8: in there with in trying to big nose the the
Speaker 8: number one contender, guys that they was needed for him
Speaker 8: and that made that match even bigger.
Speaker 1: I liked a lot. I liked the video. I liked
Speaker 1: I liked the video package. I liked the that he
Speaker 1: showed he can go, he can fight, and I and
Speaker 1: I like in the in the video. I liked him
Speaker 1: talking about like I wanted to be the best GM,
Speaker 1: but it's not. You know, he did cover the base
Speaker 1: like I am a wrestler and I can still be
Speaker 1: a wrestler. I thought it was it was Javier, did
Speaker 1: you speak on that yet, like did the actual words
Speaker 1: he gave? And did were you craving this? Like I
Speaker 1: was this moment with all this establishing him in current
Speaker 1: cannon with current viewers who he is and what he's done.
Speaker 1: And I thought they did just enough and not too much.
Speaker 2: I was.
Speaker 3: I was because I also listened to Fix earlier that
Speaker 3: I was actually thinking, wow, way way did Tyner to
Speaker 3: be happy? Because it filed filled both of the things
Speaker 3: that they wanted from it, So yeah, I had that fun.
Speaker 1: Did you also want it?
Speaker 3: I didn't need it, but I appreciate it and it
Speaker 3: does add to the actual to the actual stuff that's going.
Speaker 3: The only thing was a little bit weird was when
Speaker 3: they're doing the package the way that all this is.
Speaker 3: I've won some championships. The way it was it was
Speaker 3: kind of like very meet Like I don't want to
Speaker 3: draw tension that I watch championships that were not the
Speaker 3: WWE one because I don't want to, you know, give
Speaker 3: any respect to any other company at what championships said
Speaker 3: that was, that's kind of like where I read into that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, I was, I was. I was fine
Speaker 1: with it. I mean I I probably would have come
Speaker 1: up with something slightly more elaborate, but I don't know
Speaker 1: if it would have served the goal any better than
Speaker 1: what they did with you know, twenty fourst notice I
Speaker 1: guess or yeah, so anyway, yeah, go go ahead draw.
Speaker 8: Yeah, but I liked it at all. This was needed,
Speaker 8: he needed this. You can even go back to this
Speaker 8: match after word, because yeah, yeah, I like that. But
Speaker 8: that was everything. Y'all talked about everything, and just a preview.
Speaker 8: Can you give a preview of what y'all think about
Speaker 8: Night one? Mostly guys, tonight was on its own Night one.
Speaker 1: We're going to that after we're done with your call.
Speaker 1: We're gonna I'm gonna throw it hoppy air and we'll
Speaker 1: kind of bounce off each other a bit. So gotcha
Speaker 1: that's coming up. Yeah, thanks to all, no problem, appreciate it,
Speaker 1: awesome all right. Sue. By the way, quick comment here,
Speaker 1: good Fellow says think Nicole the should call his insurance
Speaker 1: company and see what his policy on chest damage is.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Gene Albert says the only when to ours tonight was
Speaker 1: a reason for that. They've been to hours for a
Speaker 1: few weeks. They every six months they switched between two
Speaker 1: hours and three hours, and it is permanent, uh, permanently
Speaker 1: until the end of the year, a two hour show.
Speaker 1: But I understand people being thrown off by that. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's it's moving along, uh quickly. Seven eleven says Night
Speaker 1: one is easily the more must see show for me.
Speaker 1: One might say the only musky show of the two.
Speaker 1: If you only had budget to go to one night
Speaker 1: and you had bought tickets for night two because you
Speaker 1: thought they always make that better, you might be seeing
Speaker 1: what you can get for it on the secondary market
Speaker 1: and move into moving to night one. Sean Plush says
Speaker 1: Night two can be sneaky good, but Night one is
Speaker 1: definitely way better. Dereck Mitchell says people are gonna be
Speaker 1: surprised that Nick All this is physique, the way mister
Speaker 1: McMahon looked jacked against Stone Cold in nineteen ninety eight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm curious. Does he just show up in boots and trunks.
Speaker 1: Is he just like Nick Backman, go out there, no frills,
Speaker 1: just maybe a bring jacket or something, or does he
Speaker 1: wear a suit because maybe he's not in his the
Speaker 1: shape he once was, and he's insecure about it. What
Speaker 1: do you anticipate, how your.
Speaker 3: No, I think he's gonna come in dressed like he
Speaker 3: usually does, with the long trousers and the.
Speaker 4: You do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah right, I think he has his right. He'll
Speaker 3: come on as regular get up. Yeah, yeah, let's let
Speaker 3: himself go. I mean, he looks he feels out that
Speaker 3: that his his suit off. Well, so I'm assuming he's
Speaker 3: in He's.
Speaker 1: In good shape, all right, So we'll wrap up just
Speaker 1: kind of going semi rapid fire. But I know you've
Speaker 1: got some stuff to say about some things we haven't
Speaker 1: gotten to on tonight's show. By the way, actually, let
Speaker 1: me just look on tonight show. I just won't see
Speaker 1: if there's anything else we didn't cover heavier that you
Speaker 1: that you want to talk about that we haven't yet.
Speaker 1: I'm scrolling through as i'm talking, and it does look
Speaker 1: like we covered everything except Ray Phoenix and jad McDonough
Speaker 1: and then maybe your quick thoughts on that and also
Speaker 1: just Julia losing so decisively and kind of being sort
Speaker 1: of buried or to find down so quick thoughts on
Speaker 1: those two, and then we'll get to the preview.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the Julia thing. I mean, she they
Speaker 3: she hasn't really worked on the places that they've given her.
Speaker 3: I don't think they else haven't given her the same
Speaker 3: like treatment that they've done some of the people that
Speaker 3: have issues speaking I I send her to NXC maybe
Speaker 3: for a bit, and then bring her back. I don't
Speaker 3: think she's you know, I think she's a good worker.
Speaker 3: So and you know, give her some time an NXC
Speaker 3: or something. Let people forget and give her another shot
Speaker 3: if you can do that. But I don't know, maybe
Speaker 3: she might be one of the ones in the cunning blocks.
Speaker 3: How about j d uh and the j D thing? Well,
Speaker 3: I mean more the Phoenix thing is is like for
Speaker 3: for about five minutes into the match before I realized
Speaker 3: that that was Ray Phoenix not Dragon.
Speaker 1: Late it's not because if I think about it, I
Speaker 1: can tell that it was what brand what Night, But like,
Speaker 1: they don't do enough to differentiate them where you're just
Speaker 1: so you just go with your first thought.
Speaker 3: And Lee's mask has become more like Phoenix's mask too.
Speaker 3: It's not as draconic as it as it used to be.
Speaker 3: So that's why, you know, because that's what we obviously
Speaker 3: what you're looking at looking looking at But but yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean that it was fun. You know, that was
Speaker 3: that was your your work rate match. Uh, you know,
Speaker 3: and it was it was fine. But you know, it
Speaker 3: ultimately means nothing, I hate to say for what we're talking. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: except for the downhouse and stuff, but we'll talk about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, so that'll be built in here. So let's
Speaker 1: talk about ninety one. I'll steampunk Cody Roads. Anything you
Speaker 1: want to add to that, the hype or I think
Speaker 1: that one we spent a lot of time in that.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: So Oba and Brock the match you're looking most forward to, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 3: It's it's not I'm not looking forward to this as
Speaker 3: much as it was Winter first encounter. W sometimes says
Speaker 3: that when they try to go to the well way
Speaker 3: too too many times. Uh, And I don't think they
Speaker 3: need hell in the cell for the type of rest
Speaker 3: as they are. But hey, you know, you know, particularly
Speaker 3: you're not gonna get really violent, which is something we
Speaker 3: don't do anymore. But other than that, I mean, it's
Speaker 3: it's I'm excited because it's gonna be the the crowning
Speaker 3: of of Oba Fami. It's all about you know, making
Speaker 3: ob a family, the next massive star, so that's what
Speaker 3: I'm excited for.
Speaker 1: Yep, is there what what what happens with Brock is
Speaker 1: Oba beats Brock Brockworth of the Ring Obah's music plays,
Speaker 1: and that's it? Is there a moment where they transition
Speaker 1: to something else? And maybe this is a Lesner babyface
Speaker 1: turned because he's in his hometown, so maybe there's some help.
Speaker 1: He says, I respect you. He raises his arm. Fans like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, watch out Ova, and Lesend goes no, seriously,
Speaker 1: this guy's the next big thing, crowns him. Fans cheer
Speaker 1: where they have a dual moment together. Paul hmeans like
Speaker 1: what are you doing? And like, I mean, I'm just
Speaker 1: there's different scenarios and I wouldn't bring it up except
Speaker 1: for two reasons. We had the the leverage, fake pseudo
Speaker 1: retirement thing that sort of Lesner said was like kind
Speaker 1: of thought I was retired, but then I couldn't let
Speaker 1: that be the last thing. But it's sort of hiding
Speaker 1: from what it probably really was a little negotiating hot shot.
Speaker 1: So you have that, you know, like, okay, are they
Speaker 1: going to try to have a moment with Lesnar that
Speaker 1: kind of reframes things. And mostly it's in Minneapolis. It's
Speaker 1: in his home market. That is not the same stadium,
Speaker 1: but it is the same spot on on a map
Speaker 1: where he I was in the Metrodrome and watched him
Speaker 1: play a preseason game for the Vikings, you know, in
Speaker 1: a Viking uniform, Like that's there's history here with him
Speaker 1: and the Vikings and him in Minnesota. If you were
Speaker 1: going to try to turn him in order to tell
Speaker 1: it story with somebody else down the line, I've thrown
Speaker 1: that out there as something that's just in the back
Speaker 1: of my mind as a possibility. They might think it's
Speaker 1: so anyway, I'll throw you enough enough of me talking.
Speaker 3: About Yeah, I don't think they're gonna move to to
Speaker 3: another story. Uh whoever showed the the upcoming pay per views,
Speaker 3: I don't see him slotting into that. So he'll he'll
Speaker 3: go back to his farm time being. So I the question,
Speaker 3: the big question, there's no drama that. I don't think
Speaker 3: there's any drama that ob family is not winning, you know,
Speaker 3: you know, so I think that that's fate of complete
Speaker 3: the The big question is what you're mentioning is like
Speaker 3: what what what's up with brock Lesner, I do think
Speaker 3: he'll I think what will end up happening is we're
Speaker 3: leaving one of those where he leaves and thanks, you know,
Speaker 3: thanks the crowd and everything. I don't think they'll they'll
Speaker 3: he'll completely show, like you know, leave the boots and
Speaker 3: make it like a big dramatic thing. But I think
Speaker 3: he'll leave you with an in with with a the
Speaker 3: impression this might be the last time we see it
Speaker 3: see him, but leaving the door open if he wants
Speaker 3: to show up on a Saudi show or next year
Speaker 3: to WrestleMania.
Speaker 1: I think, who do you want to see him against?
Speaker 1: If or who do you think they think they can
Speaker 1: market him against either whatever whatever happens this weekend, I.
Speaker 3: Mean, if you could get bron Breaker, I'd look for
Speaker 3: the who are gonna be your stars for the future.
Speaker 3: Would brock Lesler, Leather from Breaker? Maybe Trick would probably
Speaker 3: be the top thir obvious you're putting Oba fem over
Speaker 3: on this and off chance if you want to get
Speaker 3: another match with Brandt because I think I know brands
Speaker 3: I think is kind of like a semi retirement tour.
Speaker 1: Two yeah, Powder of Pizza, Jessico, Oh.
Speaker 3: Goother yeah, goother because Guther would make sense if he's
Speaker 3: the one who retires them. I don't know if Lesnar
Speaker 3: is up for LA because altimately could be his decision
Speaker 3: whether they do.
Speaker 8: That or not.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, you can't say retired from full time competition
Speaker 1: because he did that years ago. All right. Uh So
Speaker 1: going from there, Live Morgan and Eel Sky Women's World
Speaker 1: title match. I think this will have a huge, genuine
Speaker 1: baby face pop for el Sky, who who you know,
Speaker 1: punches above her weight. In terms of the genuine positive
Speaker 1: reaction she gets is more than daboab is even seems
Speaker 1: like they're hoping for or planning for people just like her.
Speaker 1: She's really good. Yeah. Any thoughts on on what you
Speaker 1: expect here? Does she just win and then we get
Speaker 1: to like you said, maybe Rhea.
Speaker 3: Yeah, uh io I have ill winning. Uh The only
Speaker 3: question mark is if they because I think the care
Speaker 3: is due back. If they want to go back to
Speaker 3: Live and the Care with the title involved, they could
Speaker 3: do it without the title so that Steph you can
Speaker 3: can get her revenge.
Speaker 6: On on her.
Speaker 3: I was thinking that Lyra because I actually wrote that
Speaker 3: Lyra could be an opponent for you know, Sky, but
Speaker 3: it looks like Lyra has been more eyeing the the
Speaker 3: the interconcent Champion.
Speaker 4: Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
Speaker 4: relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
Speaker 4: your passion. Do you want to be topped off the
Speaker 4: ledge after a segment that has you wondering what the
Speaker 4: heck are they thinking? Do you want to join a
Speaker 4: discussion on what AW is doing right and what they
Speaker 4: could do to improve? Then join me Joel and me
Speaker 4: Greg for the All Elite Conversation Club every Friday on
Speaker 4: the pw torch Live Cast. Fee search pw torch in
Speaker 4: your podcast app and subscribe to pw torch Daily Cast
Speaker 4: or streamer shows directly from pw torch dot com.
Speaker 6: Find full details on the pw torch Daily Cast.
Speaker 4: Lineup at pw torchdailycast dot com.
Speaker 1: All right, then, six men l A Knight solo Royce
Speaker 1: against the Bloodline.
Speaker 3: This was the one. I have some stuff to say
Speaker 3: because this is the one I was talking about that
Speaker 3: it's taken forever. And the problem with that is that
Speaker 3: the piece that is missing is Roman Rains a hill
Speaker 3: over face because when he reforms the Bloodline, right, the
Speaker 3: question is, we haven't really seen whether the blood Lines
Speaker 3: are going to be interfering in his matches or not,
Speaker 3: which is intrigue wise, the Roman Reigns seth rawlins matches.
Speaker 3: One's most intriguing to me because of whether the bloodline
Speaker 3: is going to get involved in that match or not.
Speaker 3: If it's not and it's fair play, then we can
Speaker 3: safely say that this is a new version of Bloodline
Speaker 3: where they're not going to get involved in each other's matches.
Speaker 3: So in which case they're they're the babyface because Ellie Knight,
Speaker 3: who's one of the one who's saying, hey, these are
Speaker 3: the people who screwed us over. He's basing his stuff
Speaker 3: on the stuff that happened previously. So is he correct?
Speaker 3: Is his animosity towards Jaye and Jimmy and the rest
Speaker 3: of the bloodline correct? Or is he paranoid? As they've
Speaker 3: mentioned before that Domino hasn't dropped right Solo. They're going
Speaker 3: after Solo to bring him back into the family. Solo's
Speaker 3: obviously making you know you meant you you had asked,
Speaker 3: is Solo a babyface or not? Solo is basically manipulating
Speaker 3: or not manipulating. He's making the enemy of my enemy
Speaker 3: is my friend with Keys and Ella Knight, where again,
Speaker 3: depending on where the bloodline Domino drops, I think will
Speaker 3: solidify whether he is a babyface or a heel. Same
Speaker 3: thing with Keys, because Key's hole gimmick is that he's
Speaker 3: from ends with Jacob and he doesn't like seeing Jacob
Speaker 3: cow tewing to to to reigns in the bloodline. So again,
Speaker 3: all this stuff that's individual makes sense, but until you
Speaker 3: get that is the bloodline a heal faction or face faction,
Speaker 3: It depends on whether Ellie Knight, He's and everybody else
Speaker 3: involved or right or wrong. So I'm interested in the storyline,
Speaker 3: but the problem is that I just binged all of
Speaker 3: that and that's what I got out of it. If
Speaker 3: I'm watching it across the span, I think it's been
Speaker 3: three months at least that this has been going on,
Speaker 3: and you don't have solidified who's on what side, and
Speaker 3: you're just seeing stuff happen. You're there's nothing going on.
Speaker 3: So while the story itself for me compacted, I understand
Speaker 3: and it works for me. Not everybody's gonna binge it over,
Speaker 3: you know, binge what is it like? Almost twenty hours
Speaker 3: of wrestling over the span of two days, you know.
Speaker 1: So I mean, you know, and you you are also
Speaker 1: asking a question that may not be one that they
Speaker 1: have any interest in addressing, because and I do this
Speaker 1: has been booked in this you know, it's ambiguity leads
Speaker 1: to ambivalence. The crowd like selling night, but other than that,
Speaker 1: they're just looking around, going I kind of want to
Speaker 1: pop for Solo, but I like Jay, and I kind
Speaker 1: of want to pop for La, but I kind of
Speaker 1: liked you. It's just a mess. And then poor Royce
Speaker 1: Keys is part of this ambiguous situation where he's opposite
Speaker 1: that USO's and Jacob, who fans actually really like most
Speaker 1: of the time they love, you know, Jacob's the badass,
Speaker 1: Jay's the you know, and all of a sudden Royce
Speaker 1: has to be opposite of them trying to get himself
Speaker 1: over and he's getting no response because so this has
Speaker 1: just been a mess. And so I do not have
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying you have faith, but I believe
Speaker 1: I have even less confidence in you that there is
Speaker 1: going to be something that happens that may makes sense
Speaker 1: and addresses who's the because I don't think there is
Speaker 1: anything that I can come up with that will look
Speaker 1: back and go, oh, that was what they were planning
Speaker 1: all along, and it was a good decision, and now
Speaker 1: all the cards are in place. I haven't. I haven't.
Speaker 1: I haven't meditated on a mountain about it. So maybe
Speaker 1: there is something you know like that I'm not thinking of.
Speaker 1: And and my my argument is, I'm hopeful that they
Speaker 1: are cognizant of how unbearably ambiguous and contradictory our emotions
Speaker 1: are watching this and it's and it is a necessary
Speaker 1: evil to get to a payoff that will make us
Speaker 1: go it was worth it. I don't know what that is,
Speaker 1: but I hope that they don't think this is just
Speaker 1: good compelling storytelling, because whoa nobody knows what to think.
Speaker 1: Isn't this great? We're all just yelling at each other,
Speaker 1: Ela and I's getting genuine Pops. Don't undercut that with
Speaker 1: a heel turn. Jacobot two people love, Let's get to it,
Speaker 1: whatever gonna do. He should be your one of your
Speaker 1: top three baby faces in this company. And I would
Speaker 1: push him at the expense of of spending Roman reigns
Speaker 1: as a top babyface act and turning in full fledged heel.
Speaker 1: But I don't think it's a horrible decision not to
Speaker 1: turn Roman rains heal. But to me, I think it's juicy.
Speaker 1: I think Baby Faced Jacoba two haven't enough for Roman.
Speaker 1: That's a story I want to watch. I don't is
Speaker 1: it best for business. That's a whole you know, we
Speaker 1: can have a whole side discussion on that. But and
Speaker 1: then the USO's it's like they got to choose what
Speaker 1: they're gonna be. They're just like they're just they're bouncing around.
Speaker 1: Jimmy was a levelhead of one, then he's not. Jay
Speaker 1: is happy, go lucky, yeat, and now he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's kind of petty and and abrasive solo we don't know,
Speaker 1: but he's kind of entertaining when he's you know, riffing
Speaker 1: on people. So I kind of like him, but maybe
Speaker 1: he'll betray night. None of that to me, I'm not
Speaker 1: sitting here going, Okay, it's one of these two or
Speaker 1: three scenarios. I don't see any scenario that makes sense
Speaker 1: of any of the of the journey we've been on
Speaker 1: hoavier And I think it's it's part of that that
Speaker 1: issue without to be where there's just too much dismissing
Speaker 1: of the idea that you know what, maybe we should
Speaker 1: be a litle more clear about this, because I do
Speaker 1: think people don't want to dispassionately watch things. I think
Speaker 1: they want to be in. They want to be invested
Speaker 1: in in an outcome.
Speaker 3: Well you and you you you mentioned that the faith
Speaker 3: I have in it. What puts me more on your
Speaker 3: level is also the fact that they are also changing
Speaker 3: on the fly too, because I usually, you know, I
Speaker 3: don't like bringing up rumors when I read online and
Speaker 3: the social media is unless it's unless the only rumors
Speaker 3: and stuff that you bring because I know the work
Speaker 3: that you do. But you know, they they right now
Speaker 3: they're talking about like how with the baby face reaction
Speaker 3: that Sola has been getting that they might stretch that
Speaker 3: they weren't expecting that they might stretch that out. The
Speaker 3: reason he's getting that baby face reaction is because since
Speaker 3: people don't have they're not attached to the character. Because
Speaker 3: the characters are ambivalent, you really can't be attached to Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well no, I think a building also works because like
Speaker 3: Elle Knight, he respected Jay, but now that he's back
Speaker 3: with the bloodline and he thinks that the bloodline is
Speaker 3: the same thing as bloodline one point, oh, he's afraid
Speaker 3: the bloodline one point, oh, is gonna be a problem.
Speaker 3: We don't know if he's if it's true or not,
Speaker 3: we don't know if he's mistaken. So we don't know
Speaker 3: whether yeah, you're you know you're right because the bloodline
Speaker 3: is bad or or no, because you know there's a
Speaker 3: different there's a different flavor bloodline. So you don't know
Speaker 3: whether you want to be cheering for Elle Knight to
Speaker 3: get you know what he what? You know what what
Speaker 3: he wants to do. You don't know if you know.
Speaker 3: Because Jacob Fattou is sticking with Roman because he lost honorably.
Speaker 3: He's doing an honorable thing. That's a babyface thing to do,
Speaker 3: to follow the honor, even if you're working for a
Speaker 3: bad guy, because your your words, more is more, more,
Speaker 3: your your your your your bond, and Key's is trying
Speaker 3: to take him away from that. Now is gonna is
Speaker 3: the reality? Rain is gonna be a good influence on
Speaker 3: Jacob Fatou because you know, he was a technically good
Speaker 3: influence on Jay J. Became an event because of what
Speaker 3: Roman did. So is Jacob Fattou getting put under Roman's
Speaker 3: wing a good thing for him? Well, then Hey's wrong
Speaker 3: for pulling him out. So again, until we know what
Speaker 3: it is, people are not going to be invested in
Speaker 3: whether you want to see Keys succeed in pulling out
Speaker 3: Jacob or not. So because you don't have any strong
Speaker 3: feelings on whether you want who you want to succeed.
Speaker 3: Because you don't know what their ultimate motivations are, you're
Speaker 3: left with only cheering one of two things, the story,
Speaker 3: which is muddled, so you can't cheer the story either.
Speaker 3: So what you're left is who's entertaining Memore Right now,
Speaker 3: Solo's the one that's most entertaining with his goofiness. So
Speaker 3: I'm now I'm reading on line. Half of the stuff
Speaker 3: I get from wrestling Twitter is oh, you got to
Speaker 3: keep so Babyface. If they turn him back, he'll be stupid.
Speaker 3: Everyone wants them to be Babyface because he's.
Speaker 1: Charming, like you said, yeah you know, and and I
Speaker 1: don't go no, go ahead.
Speaker 3: And Elle Knight because La Knight cuts great promos. You know,
Speaker 3: those are the people they're cheering for.
Speaker 4: You.
Speaker 3: You know, keyses out in the out in the cold
Speaker 3: because he's not the same love of promos as the
Speaker 3: other two. Plus we don't know him too well, so
Speaker 3: that's why he's getting tapid reactions, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So this what this comes down to is you know,
Speaker 1: I had a YouTube short up on this. It kind
Speaker 1: of said it like, W should just figure out who
Speaker 1: do you know? They're fan based enough to know who
Speaker 1: do they like, and then position them against people who
Speaker 1: who fans don't like. Amplify without needless contradictions.
Speaker 2: What it is.
Speaker 1: It makes people dislike some of your wrestlers and like
Speaker 1: other wrestlers. It shouldn't be solo is entertaining. That's kind
Speaker 1: of the john S and I hope we entertained you tonight,
Speaker 1: where fans feel entitled to be entertained and they think
Speaker 1: it's their job to sit in the stands and decide
Speaker 1: how what entertains them the most, and that's what they're
Speaker 1: going to root for. And it's a layer removed from
Speaker 1: that buy in, which is I just want to see
Speaker 1: Sammy Luz, you know, like I just want to see
Speaker 1: Sammy win in Montreal. I want to see Sammy Luz.
Speaker 1: Now that's the peak fan experience and W shouldn't lose
Speaker 1: their way because they're on Wrestling Twitter constantly and they're
Speaker 1: thinking what will entertain the fans the most. They're answering
Speaker 1: what will entertain the fans the most is not option
Speaker 1: A or B. It's over there behind the curtain, which
Speaker 1: is something else entirely, which is not what's most entertaining,
Speaker 1: But it's who are fans predisposed to like, what can
Speaker 1: we do to amplify and intensify that so that they
Speaker 1: want to pay money to see them win? And then
Speaker 1: the opposite with the heels, So that should not be
Speaker 1: Solo's entertaining. Let's keep on baby face. The story should
Speaker 1: be what's a good story that we're telling that's going
Speaker 1: to lead to a heal face dynamic, And that might
Speaker 1: mean muting some things that are entertaining about solo. Entertainment
Speaker 1: is not the goal, even though it's in the name
Speaker 1: of the company.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: It is getting fans to buy in and be emotionally
Speaker 1: invested in an outcome. That might mean muting some of
Speaker 1: the things that are entertaining about some of these wrestlers.
Speaker 1: So anyway, m.
Speaker 3: Okay, moving on, Okay, the goal should have been I
Speaker 3: think the goal should have been once uh Rams won
Speaker 3: the title, the goal should have just have been at
Speaker 3: the blow lack together, you should have gotten the actual
Speaker 3: fans invested in wanting to get everybody back back back together,
Speaker 3: and that's been lost because I think, ultimple, that's what
Speaker 3: you want, you know, uh, you know so so, and
Speaker 3: that's been lost because now you don't because because they
Speaker 3: want to complicated. I think to buy time. I think
Speaker 3: that's what they're doing. They're buying time to get to
Speaker 3: the position. But the problem is that the one question
Speaker 3: that had the mystery box is they like calling it
Speaker 3: in Hollywood the mystery box. It's been an entire season
Speaker 3: and we don't know what's in that box.
Speaker 1: And I've talked about this. I think that what we're
Speaker 1: seeing now as a result of bogging backwards from Survivor
Speaker 1: series and they didn't. They just didn't have enough material
Speaker 1: or it's not coaching enough in their heads to execute
Speaker 1: it in a way that that is not just entertaining
Speaker 1: or interesting, but since and pulls you in emotionally, so
Speaker 1: you're buying into something and rooting for something and rooting
Speaker 1: against something that's not happening. It's it is muddled. It's
Speaker 1: not flailing. Flailing was lead up to WrestleMania. They were
Speaker 1: flailing to try to spark interest and the McAfee was
Speaker 1: the most prominent thing, but other things were flailing. This
Speaker 1: is just muddled, just muddled, going in all right, I
Speaker 1: want to wrap up Rother Toby soon here, so let's
Speaker 1: hit going through all this. Any additional thoughts on that.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think we hit that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the Bella is in page against Fatal Influence.
Speaker 1: Any thoughts on that?
Speaker 3: I don't really care, but it seems to be setting
Speaker 3: up page and page. The only one I want to
Speaker 3: talk about Nick and Brie to challenge for the titles
Speaker 3: so they could win it, because that was what was
Speaker 3: supposed to happen originally.
Speaker 1: All right, night, Two quick thoughts? Anything more tricking Corbin?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 1: Nope, all right, Sammy and Finn? Anything more on that?
Speaker 3: Samy and Finn. This was when I was writing the primer.
Speaker 3: This is the one was least interested in, and they
Speaker 3: made it like probably the second most interesting match on
Speaker 3: What is a Horrible Night Too?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Bearing the lead as we run through this, the women's
Speaker 1: five way in ladder match for the interim title. We
Speaker 1: have Charlotte and Jade. We talked about Chelsea being sort
Speaker 1: of the dark horse that people are rooting for. Last
Speaker 1: legend getting a decisive win, which was smart. It's just
Speaker 1: unfortunate's expensive, Julie if you believe Julia has more potential,
Speaker 1: and then Tiffany is just Tiffany. So any any thoughts.
Speaker 3: The the what most tempers me, uh with Chelsea Green
Speaker 3: winning is mainly that the feel good win is going
Speaker 3: to be gable.
Speaker 1: I think, all right, Dan Housen dom.
Speaker 3: My perdition. I think that a lot of people are
Speaker 3: to be angry. I think that's what they wrote. Uh yeah,
Speaker 3: it's gonna be a thing. Basically, everything Dan House has
Speaker 3: been done doing since since then has been has been
Speaker 3: between mildly entertaining and just ultra cringe. So that's it's
Speaker 3: a shame. And by the way, what happened to miss.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah he's he well and and.
Speaker 3: Yeah and uh I will say Kit, but Kit Wilson, Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: what happened to them? They just they got electrocuted. And
Speaker 3: I don't think we've seen them since.
Speaker 1: You know, what's fun is I haven't thought about it.
Speaker 1: Do we care?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: They should? That should maybe they maybe they are involved
Speaker 1: in this and they're I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't even want to think about it. It really,
Speaker 3: I don't know. There's something about that the money and
Speaker 3: you know, you know me, I'm into this crazy stuff,
Speaker 3: you know, and I'm into the more clown stuff, and
Speaker 3: I'm just this is just not working for me at all.
Speaker 1: Maybe uh, Miss and Kit steal the money and Dan
Speaker 1: Houson and Dom unite and it's Dom's baby face turn
Speaker 1: All right enough. iPhone users, if you're listening to us
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Speaker 1: your Apple podcast app. Sadler says, salad version three in
Speaker 1: the checkos, Kit Wilson another hot character they threw in
Speaker 1: the ice bath down for no reason. All right, Uh,
Speaker 1: Penta and Chad Gable one on one, there's a little
Speaker 1: bit of this minute. Uh. Minnesota Star Tribune, our top newspaper,
Speaker 1: had a historian Chad Gable today or call him from
Speaker 1: Grizzled veteran columnist Patrick ROYCEI I saw it, I didn't
Speaker 1: read it yet, so I got to read that. They
Speaker 1: did a nice vignette on him on a previous show.
Speaker 1: What Yeah, what are your what are your what are
Speaker 1: your thoughts? When they booked this. First of all, it
Speaker 1: just plays into like, let's not give fans anyone to
Speaker 1: just one hundred percent root for Let's make it. Let's
Speaker 1: let's make every every person you cheer for you feel
Speaker 1: guilty because you like the other guy too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that that does also come up. But I mean
Speaker 3: it's interesting because when I gave this more thought, because
Speaker 3: it's a comes full circle because Penta was the whole
Speaker 3: Grand Americano started when when Penta beat beat Gable, and
Speaker 3: that's you know, that's when Gable decided that he can't
Speaker 3: beat the loocha door, so he created the uh, the gimmick.
Speaker 3: So essentially it comes full circle and he's you know, uh.
Speaker 3: On paper, it should be like a heartwarming and everything,
Speaker 3: but you know the issue that most of the most
Speaker 3: of the stuff happened in Mexico and Triple A. A
Speaker 3: lot of the drama happened there, and it feels more
Speaker 3: like you're supposed to these are the emotions we're expecting
Speaker 3: you to feel. But it's sadly it we just haven't uh,
Speaker 3: we haven't gotten had enough time with this version of
Speaker 3: the Gable to really really care for him to Hey,
Speaker 3: this is he's finishing his story and.
Speaker 1: He's Yeah, Gable's not a great charismatic baby face character.
Speaker 1: Is there any chance that they booked this because one
Speaker 1: of the others turning heel?
Speaker 3: I mean, if if Gable turns heel, it's because they
Speaker 3: gave up on what they're trying to do. Tent to
Speaker 3: Heel might be interesting.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, yeah, I know that crossed my mind.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's popular and you could do that. But
Speaker 1: if they I could see that elevating him and there's
Speaker 1: a lot of potential for different matchups that might freshen
Speaker 1: him up. It might be a chance to move up
Speaker 1: the card a bit if he's I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know how you I don't have in my mind
Speaker 1: how you would how you fully fleshed out how you
Speaker 1: do it. But I'm kind of intrigued with something kind
Speaker 1: of surprising and if they find a way to make
Speaker 1: that work.
Speaker 3: If there were if they were doing a heel pens
Speaker 3: of the way that he was in uh Luca Underground
Speaker 3: where he was just like breaking people's arms and stuff.
Speaker 3: You know, obviously don't do that because that's you know,
Speaker 3: you can't do that, But like something that where he's
Speaker 3: like an aggressive and not you know, an aggressive fighter.
Speaker 3: I'd like to see that. I just don't trust that
Speaker 3: they would do what they need to do with the
Speaker 3: heel penta.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fair, all right, Seth Roman.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean a lot of the stuff I have
Speaker 3: to say had tied you know, ties into you know,
Speaker 3: is Ram's heel babyface. You know what, where we're supposed
Speaker 3: to feel about it?
Speaker 2: It the.
Speaker 3: Overall I you could have just told the story of
Speaker 3: their history and that's it and leave it at that
Speaker 3: and not bring up the fact that Romans was a
Speaker 3: broad promo for most of his career, and don't bring
Speaker 3: up the fact that management was the one who uh
Speaker 3: who uh who put him in that position that was
Speaker 3: completely unnecessary. Uh. I mean I liked uh Seth Rollins
Speaker 3: talking about how there are different types of wrestlers where
Speaker 3: it's where he's I mean, he essentially said Roman was
Speaker 3: the wrestler who does what he does, does what he's
Speaker 3: told and hopes to get rich. Well, he's the one
Speaker 3: who cares about the actual art of wrestling. I just
Speaker 3: don't think they got there the right way, and they
Speaker 3: got they got that through the meta realm, which is
Speaker 3: again unnecessary. I mean, seriously, just you know, the the
Speaker 3: the you've never beaten to me when it counts was
Speaker 3: just about enough, and we're about to retire. You never
Speaker 3: be you know, like the moments that you remember are
Speaker 3: me getting over on you, you know, uh, breaking up
Speaker 3: the shield that was me getting over on you, cashing
Speaker 3: in at rest at WrestleMania. That's me getting over on you,
Speaker 3: you know, me winning the title and the three way
Speaker 3: with Punk and taking your your your wise man, that
Speaker 3: was me getting over on you. You might have won,
Speaker 3: but the big moments that people are been remember of these,
Speaker 3: you know, the biggest and the most important cash of
Speaker 3: all time, and this is your last chance to do
Speaker 3: something about it. You know that that was That's strong
Speaker 3: enough storyline, you know all the other way you went.
Speaker 1: I am hoping to push the reaction to Seth's promo
Speaker 1: about you you got you know, your favorite by management,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't like there's a way to pull that off.
Speaker 1: And in like my my ideas like Roman, when you
Speaker 1: when you became nomber contender and magically happened right before
Speaker 1: big shows that could put you on the poster because
Speaker 1: they thought you were more marketable and for me I
Speaker 1: to win money at the bank and sneak in like
Speaker 1: you can weave it into k fab, You can weave
Speaker 1: into the storyline to say you got favorite and preferential
Speaker 1: treatment because people go, well, it's true they perceive you
Speaker 1: as more marketable, and you go, well, management, Vince wasn't
Speaker 1: crazy to think that. But you can also make fun
Speaker 1: of Rains for sort of flailing trying to be something
Speaker 1: he wasn't, to try to fit a mold, to live
Speaker 1: in the foot to follow in the footsteps of the
Speaker 1: people who came before him. Again, you can do that
Speaker 1: in a way where it feels like it was a
Speaker 1: choice by Roman, not something scripted for him to do.
Speaker 1: There is a sophisticated, nuanced way to do what Seth
Speaker 1: was trying to do. But he was so hacked, so derivative,
Speaker 1: so tired, so blah with what he did that I
Speaker 1: hope it is a wake up call. Maybe the Grayce
Speaker 1: and Waller thing is not encouraging an encouraging sign on
Speaker 1: NXT on Tuesday, Harve you feel about that, that it's
Speaker 1: time to move away from that stuff because it's not
Speaker 1: shocking anymore. It's not like, oh my god, you won't
Speaker 1: believe what just happened. Seth broke the fourth wall. That's
Speaker 1: not what people want anymore. It's like the attention economy
Speaker 1: used to be, oh my god, I can follow people
Speaker 1: on social media and talk to them, and now it's
Speaker 1: like the new flex is not being on social media.
Speaker 1: It's the new flex is not having the latest technology
Speaker 1: and not being a mark and a victim pulled into
Speaker 1: the attention economy where they're just giving you this world
Speaker 1: that doesn't exist but you think it does by feeding
Speaker 1: you with an algorithm something that they know you're addicted to.
Speaker 1: Like cigarettes. There was a point where something is novel
Speaker 1: and new, and then it becomes some derivative, corrupt version
Speaker 1: that does isn't in the spirit of what originally was,
Speaker 1: Like social media has become the shoot p almost the
Speaker 1: same thing. We're way past it, and Seth should know it.
Speaker 1: And it shows, frankly how unsophisticated he is as a
Speaker 1: student of the game that he still thinks that's the
Speaker 1: approach to take. He should have the cloud to say
Speaker 1: no to whatever writer handed him that stuff, or if
Speaker 1: he came up with it, he should know better. There's
Speaker 1: my rant on it. I hope a lesson has learned.
Speaker 1: I hope Seth's like, WHOA, I didn't realize this stuff
Speaker 1: was pass so much and people hated it. Now I
Speaker 1: won't do it anymore because, frankly, since then, Cody and
Speaker 1: Punke didn't step in it, and Seth was better about
Speaker 1: it this week, So I am hoping it's all worth it.
Speaker 1: In the end that Seth did that, Javier, so we
Speaker 1: don't get it ever again anymore, regardless of whatever Grace
Speaker 1: did and how you feel about that realm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's retire to the pipe on promost.
Speaker 1: Yes, let's retire talking about anything other than does it
Speaker 1: pass through the filter of People get pushes because they win.
Speaker 1: People are champion because they win matches. People are on
Speaker 1: TV because it's the the powers behind the scenes give
Speaker 1: TV time to winners. You get on Sunday Night Football
Speaker 1: because you have a winning record. Is there a bias
Speaker 1: for New York Giants or the Cowboys? Yes, but you
Speaker 1: don't get chosen to win because you're the Cowboys. You
Speaker 1: still have to win. That's why I say there's a nuance,
Speaker 1: sophisticated way to do what Seth was trying to do
Speaker 1: and he failed at it.
Speaker 3: SmackDown with samu's Ain. Sam's Ain is complaining that that
Speaker 3: that Punk and uh and and Cody keep getting all
Speaker 3: the shots, but he's complaining with something where you know, yes,
Speaker 3: in the UFC, the guy guy who has a fifty
Speaker 3: you know, a five hundred record but is super charismatic
Speaker 3: might get a title shot or who never lost the title.
Speaker 1: Well, like with in Bump's case and Cody as the
Speaker 1: act champ who didn't get a fair rematch.
Speaker 3: Well, no, but what I'm saying it's like like like
Speaker 3: you could make a complaint about management screwing you over
Speaker 3: for for those reasons, for you know, because you're not
Speaker 3: you're you know, because they want the charismatic guy have
Speaker 3: a shout at the title. You can make those and
Speaker 3: and things made those those comments, you know, but when
Speaker 3: you start talking about because I mean, I think the
Speaker 3: kicker for me was when he starts talking about you
Speaker 3: can't cut a promo. And by the way, Knight heads
Speaker 3: into that direction a few times too, so you know
Speaker 3: that that's when you start with you know, this was
Speaker 3: a long time ago. Why are you bringing this back
Speaker 3: up now? You know you don't want people thinking about
Speaker 3: that Roman Reigns is still your top draw. Why the
Speaker 3: hell are you bringing this up?
Speaker 1: That's why I felt that, that's why I didn't like
Speaker 1: Punkin' Roman. Maybe it's just there was this residual they're
Speaker 1: both they're both jerks and pricks and ego egotistical, and
Speaker 1: they all have these these fault lines that just got
Speaker 1: got amplified and drawn attention drawn to them in the build.
Speaker 1: Stop doing it. Treat your protect your stars, treat them
Speaker 1: like big deals. But if you're going to have someone
Speaker 1: rip on someone, have it be a baby face making
Speaker 1: good points about a heel that is within the realm
Speaker 1: of if this were real, that's what would have been said.
Speaker 1: You've got to filter it through. If this were in
Speaker 1: actual sport, would this be being said. And if you
Speaker 1: can pull it off, pull it off. But if you can't,
Speaker 1: don't go there like if you can't pull that off
Speaker 1: and make it seem like something that would be said
Speaker 1: if real. There was storyline justification for Punk and Cody
Speaker 1: having a one on one match for all kinds of reasons,
Speaker 1: not all kinds like dozens, but like two or three
Speaker 1: good reasons. It made sense. And but Sammy also as
Speaker 1: his character, you understand why Sammy feels he's been overlooked.
Speaker 1: Now there's a danger that the heat is on management.
Speaker 1: It's like in dough to Be Unreal or Paul of
Speaker 1: X like in this By the way, w Unreal backs
Speaker 1: up my contention that John Cenas has for among the
Speaker 1: top stars of the last fifty years, bottom ten percent
Speaker 1: of Wrestling IQ in terms of understanding the industry. He
Speaker 1: has a completely fundamental different view of the business that
Speaker 1: does not serve anybody else but him, including calling himself
Speaker 1: the last world champion while he's retiring and he thinks
Speaker 1: that's his way to give back. While he's touting himself
Speaker 1: for putting NXT wrestlers on a show that he's on,
Speaker 1: not the highest wrestling IQ, not even close, and he's
Speaker 1: out there saying, yeah, I want to have bad matches
Speaker 1: despite the fans. And I noticed another showjave here. Terry
Speaker 1: Taylor used to do that on house shows w h W.
Speaker 1: House shows, like fans would taunt him and if he
Speaker 1: they for having arest hoole. This is like circa nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty seven, and they' give him a hard time at
Speaker 1: a house show for doing a rest hole and they'd
Speaker 1: be like, well, I'm gonna sit in the ud shout,
Speaker 1: I'm going to stay in this for ten minutes to
Speaker 1: spite you, like you know, like he was a heel,
Speaker 1: and he was like, you guys are marks two. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna turn you marts. You think smart, you're not those
Speaker 1: you know, the emergence of the observer in the torch
Speaker 1: and and and you know quote so called smart fans
Speaker 1: and sheet raiders. So that's been done at a house
Speaker 1: show in front of a couple thousand people. John Cena's idea,
Speaker 1: Paulaveck responded to by going, I'm sorry, John, but it's
Speaker 1: the heat's gonna be on us, the company management. It's
Speaker 1: not gonna be on you as a heel. If you
Speaker 1: have boring matches, they're gonna blame us for authorizing something
Speaker 1: really low iq and stupid. It's a bad idea. He
Speaker 1: put it as nicely as he can, because everyone pussy
Speaker 1: flips around John seene it because he's a big star
Speaker 1: and he thinks he knows a lot more than he does.
Speaker 1: And when he leaves the room, everyone exhales and goes,
Speaker 1: thank god he's gone, because he's phony and everyone I
Speaker 1: can't say everyone feels that way, but a lot of
Speaker 1: people feel that way. So there's bad ideas about how
Speaker 1: to get heal heat, and then there's good ideas on
Speaker 1: how to get heal heat. But if you're if you're blaming,
Speaker 1: if your promo is blaming management for bad decisions, that's
Speaker 1: not how you sell a match. That's how you pick
Speaker 1: at scabs in a way that breaks the immersion that
Speaker 1: you that you want immersion, You want fans to buying,
Speaker 1: you want that peak fan experience. When you pick up
Speaker 1: scabs of the past of decisions management made, that's not
Speaker 1: getting people to care about the match. It's causing scabs
Speaker 1: to be picked and bleed again. Stop doing it and
Speaker 1: session no better scene. It should know better. But there's
Speaker 1: a lot of people with main event matches who don't
Speaker 1: sit and watch the product, and they're on social media
Speaker 1: and they have this little bubble that algorithm fed them,
Speaker 1: and they think that's the whole world, and then we
Speaker 1: get crap like that promo heavier.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the you know, I think you hit
Speaker 3: one one one now, this particularly talking about like past
Speaker 3: since those are the ones that are like even worse
Speaker 3: because like you know, like on a on a like again,
Speaker 3: you know, goother has had you know, GOOZI can can
Speaker 3: plame that's manage and screwed them, you know, because they
Speaker 3: literally they pull them out of the rink or you
Speaker 3: know stuff like that. You know, so so you from
Speaker 3: their perspective, you talk about it, but you're talking about
Speaker 3: it within the actual structure of the show itself. You know,
Speaker 3: you're not talking about outside of you're not talking about
Speaker 3: tko is the one who who booked it. You'ren't talking
Speaker 3: about the bookers. You're talking about like you know, the
Speaker 3: matchmakers within you know, you're talking about Pierce, You're talking
Speaker 3: about uh Aldis as as the bad guys, and you're
Speaker 3: putting you know whatever, you know, your complaints on them,
Speaker 3: which you know works. But at the same time, I'm
Speaker 3: putting that with the caveat, don't use complaints that people
Speaker 3: actually see is real, because then you're actually thinking about,
Speaker 3: you know, you know what, what's what's going on?
Speaker 1: Being an annoying pest.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean you you know, because like because
Speaker 3: I mentioned that, don't bring up I don't like the
Speaker 3: idea they're calling uh unless the idea is to turn
Speaker 3: a meal. I don't like the idea you're bringing up
Speaker 3: Cody as the golden boy and eating it over and
Speaker 3: over again, because you're going to start people are gonna
Speaker 3: start booing him because he's the golden boy, you know. So,
Speaker 3: I mean I think the ship sailed on Plump being
Speaker 3: a hypocrite because I think everybody, even his fans, know
Speaker 3: he's a hypocrite, you know. So I think that that
Speaker 3: that he's he's tef love when it comes to that.
Speaker 3: But but don't bring up those kinds of things. Don't
Speaker 3: bring up you know, Rain's being you know. I'll tell
Speaker 3: you what. One of the things that I've kind of
Speaker 3: been lost some interest in Rands is his baby face
Speaker 3: matches him going back to the Superman punch and he
Speaker 3: wrestling more babyface style than he used to. And I'm like, no,
Speaker 3: do what the stuff that he used to do before,
Speaker 3: keep with the rest holds and the and and those
Speaker 3: kind of moves. Stopped giving me the flashing moves because
Speaker 3: you're not cool doing the Superman punch. So that wasn't
Speaker 3: a side.
Speaker 1: Sorry, that's okay, Hey, we we have Besides, it's baked
Speaker 1: into the show format, uh seven eleven. So this has
Speaker 1: it been discussed about the possibility of returns of Randy Orton,
Speaker 1: Kevin Owner through McIntyre hoavier. Did that into your mind
Speaker 1: right in the primer as it entered your mind? Or
Speaker 1: what do you think of the possibility now that I
Speaker 1: bring it.
Speaker 3: Up, I have learned, don't expect them on the show.
Speaker 3: Expect them on the day after the show, with very
Speaker 3: few exceptions, and in this case maybe in Orton, if
Speaker 3: they're gonna continue the Orton uh uh uh Cody feud.
Speaker 3: If they're gonna continue that, maybe Orton ends up getting
Speaker 3: involved in that match, and that that that's nowt I
Speaker 3: was trying to keep away from too many because one
Speaker 3: of the things I know is a lot of my primers.
Speaker 3: But I'm expecting interference in every match. But they've been
Speaker 3: pretty good not having those in on their on their
Speaker 3: on the bailey. So i've i've i've I've moved away
Speaker 3: from that unless something makes obvious sense. So I had
Speaker 3: a hard time to figure out who between punk and
Speaker 3: and uh and Cody if they're both gonna stay babyface.
Speaker 3: One way would be if Orton gets involved or Kay Okay. Also,
Speaker 3: I had bad blood with with he was Yeah, he
Speaker 3: was feeding with Cody before he got in. He got injured, right,
Speaker 3: you know the McIntyre, I don't want to put him in.
Speaker 3: I think McIntyre, if he shows up, will be later.
Speaker 3: And I don't even know where you're gonna put him
Speaker 3: in because I don't don't. I don't see where he
Speaker 3: fits in right now.
Speaker 1: Heal opponent just about to say that, about to say that.
Speaker 10: Yeah, searching for more great Pro Wrestling Talk, then join
Speaker 10: me Jason Powell host him the three weekly Pro Wrestling
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Speaker 1: All right, real quicks. I want to wrap up in
Speaker 1: a minute super chat for Derek Mitchell Wade. Random question.
Speaker 1: As a lifelong fan, has any wrestling moment ever brought
Speaker 1: you to tears for me as much a man winning
Speaker 1: the WF Championship at WrestleMania nine and his nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: one proposal to Miss Elizabeth. Derek the thank you for
Speaker 1: the super chat, by the way, dinners on you tomorrow.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. These questions get me in trouble because
Speaker 1: at age sixteen, I started prossing Torch. I did so
Speaker 1: with the goal to be a journalist, and I enjoy
Speaker 1: watching wrestling, and I had almost ten years of being
Speaker 1: just a fan, like eight years of being just a
Speaker 1: fan and experiencing peak fan experiences and thinking a death
Speaker 1: match meant someone was gonna die when Matt Dog Vshan
Speaker 1: and Crusher Jerry Blackwell at a death match, and I
Speaker 1: got to see Brewiser Brody and Crusher Blackwell have brawls
Speaker 1: of the century in my eyes, and got to see
Speaker 1: the rise of Whole Commnia and Bobby Heenan at his
Speaker 1: absolute best as a manager in my hometown promotion. I
Speaker 1: got to see the wrestling wars in front of me.
Speaker 1: I remember where I was when I saw the WrestleMania
Speaker 1: commercial and realized I was going to get to watch
Speaker 1: at WDW event live on close circuit, and I was
Speaker 1: so excited about that. And I got to experience World
Speaker 1: Class Championship wrestling brought at Dallas, Texas at its peak,
Speaker 1: being in syndication and planning my weekends around it at
Speaker 1: five pm on Channel twenty nine every week, absolutely like that.
Speaker 1: It was so awesome to grow up in the era
Speaker 1: that I did, getting the tail end of the end
Speaker 1: of the territories and then being in the midst of
Speaker 1: the wrestling wars and the territorial the drop off the territories,
Speaker 1: but also the wrestling blocks where you got to see
Speaker 1: five shows from all over the country on Saturday morning
Speaker 1: or Sunday morning, and wrestling blocks in syndication, and I
Speaker 1: got to experience and see and like on TV almost
Speaker 1: every territory that I was reading about in the magazines
Speaker 1: for years but didn't get to see the wrestlers. And
Speaker 1: then everybody came to town WWF aw a WCW or
Speaker 1: Jim Crockett and wa Mid South World Class Promise but
Speaker 1: never did. And I got to be part of seeing
Speaker 1: the burgeoning indie scene when indie wrestling got really big.
Speaker 1: All that said, I don't remember ever coming to Tears
Speaker 1: for sure after I started the Torch, because I just
Speaker 1: had to cover wrestling and look at wrestling through a
Speaker 1: different lens being a journalist, and so no I was
Speaker 1: looking at how am I gonna write about this? Is
Speaker 1: it best for business? Is this a good angle? Is
Speaker 1: going to draw ratings? Is it funny? Is it effective?
Speaker 1: How are other fans reacting to it? It just chained
Speaker 1: my perspective. I felt a responsibility in that way to
Speaker 1: do so. And then before that, I don't think as
Speaker 1: a kid, I teared up, like watching Matt doc Vashan
Speaker 1: Finally Avenge crushed Jerry Blackwell in a death match. But
Speaker 1: I might have, but I don't remember that. So there's
Speaker 1: there's my answer to it. When people ask like that
Speaker 1: kind of question of me, it does it kind of
Speaker 1: goes against the lens through which I've watched wrestling since
Speaker 1: I was a teenager. Because I started the torch so young,
Speaker 1: kind of shifted me into a different gear. Javier, how
Speaker 1: about you?
Speaker 3: Well, Uh, I crawl like a little bit. But when
Speaker 3: it comes to wrestling, I would say top of mine
Speaker 3: was the match made in uh match made in Heaven?
Speaker 3: Matchmaker match made in uh in Heaven?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 3: Maybe also the Proposal. I'm not sure about that one.
Speaker 3: I also cried when Undertaker was killed and that killed
Speaker 3: him was young.
Speaker 1: It was on your twentieth birthday. I remember that, yep.
Speaker 3: And the most recent was the wasbray Waite's return. Okay,
Speaker 3: when are you getting back?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 3: Uh? Like, uh, we everybody everybody in the because I
Speaker 3: think I was watching it with my my, uh my
Speaker 3: brother and his wife and like at least she and
Speaker 3: she and I were bowling, so because she because he
Speaker 3: was her favorite wrestler. So when when he came out
Speaker 3: and just like the the emotion and like the croad
Speaker 3: is going nuts for him, and you know, and and
Speaker 3: you know the stuff that that that that was that
Speaker 3: was a moment that's not to include like obviously the
Speaker 3: wrestling fatalities and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So Prink Category seven eleven can sneak this in. I
Speaker 1: think Kevin Owens sides with Sammy if he sent a
Speaker 1: program with Punk and he causes and because Punk versus
Speaker 1: K is something I need to see. So maybe when
Speaker 1: we're talking about wrestlers coming in, Kevin Owens and Sammy
Speaker 1: almost have to be aligned or a post but involved
Speaker 1: in the same story. And obviously see him Punk and
Speaker 1: Kevin Owens could be fantastic in some form or fashion.
Speaker 1: I just hope we have a designated heel in a
Speaker 1: face and if Punk turned heel and Kao's a baby
Speaker 1: face and Ko comes in and explains why Sammy has
Speaker 1: been making sense, but let me help my friend get
Speaker 1: grounded again, and he's he's been hysterical and I can
Speaker 1: talk him out of it. We'll get our old Sammy back.
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, I got one more run in
Speaker 1: me as world champ and see him Punk, You've been
Speaker 1: pissing me off. I mean, I like, I, let's do.
Speaker 3: It dude for me. Uh see him punk heel and
Speaker 3: because of the stuff that Punk has been telling uh
Speaker 3: to to his wife seeing Uh seeing seeing Punk be
Speaker 3: the motivation that gets Johnny wrestling. It's a stand up
Speaker 3: that would be you know, and then have as the
Speaker 3: crowd go.
Speaker 1: Nuts yep salarsion three about crying. By the way, I'm
Speaker 1: not emotion Salagion three. So I'm not emotional and never
Speaker 1: cry watching stuff. But I randomly was channel surfing and
Speaker 1: stopped that hbca versus Flair in the post match almost
Speaker 1: got me, which is weird because I've watched that match before.
Speaker 2: L L.
Speaker 1: Goodfella says Bray's return was awesome. Sean Puss click to
Speaker 1: Us says fans are going to cheer Ko one hundred percent,
Speaker 1: which is why I turned punk Heel for my scenario
Speaker 1: because yeah, I don't. Yeah, I think as good as
Speaker 1: Punk is, I just don't. I don't. I don't think
Speaker 1: he can get cheered against Ko unless Ko is really
Speaker 1: up for the challenge, really up for the challenge. Derek says, uh,
Speaker 1: that was great emotional moment for me, but my two
Speaker 1: moments as a teenager was as a teenager in the
Speaker 1: eighties with Savage.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: I get that, all right? Go VP everybody sign up.
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Speaker 1: and big thanks to those who gave super chats. Obviously
Speaker 1: king of the super Chats is never in question. Derek
Speaker 1: Mitchell with that, all right, cool, Thanks everybody, we'll talk
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Speaker 2: A lot of.
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