Speaker 1: All right, welcome everyone. It's very very very special episode.
Speaker 1: I'm doctor Scott.
Speaker 2: And I'm doctor Shiloh.
Speaker 1: And this is La Not So Confidential, the Forensic Psychology
Speaker 1: and True Crime podcast.
Speaker 2: Each episode we explore the intersection of psychology, the criminal
Speaker 2: justice system, and entertainment.
Speaker 1: And today is a very special episode, not like an
Speaker 1: after school special, but today is our two hundredth episode celebration.
Speaker 1: And like slack jawed, wide eyed, what the hell, how
Speaker 1: did we do this? This is crazy? Right?
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm laughing because Scott didn't get the link for this.
Speaker 2: I have wires coming out of my headphones because after
Speaker 2: nearly eight frickin' years, I didn't charge my headphones.
Speaker 1: Just you know, it's just our regular stuff. The way
Speaker 1: we go down, this is the way we were all.
Speaker 2: This is us. Yeah, sure, Oh my gosh, this is
Speaker 2: so wild to reflect on this. Thanks guys for being
Speaker 2: here for an impromptu two hundredth episode. Real quick, to
Speaker 2: just get this out of the way, let's do our
Speaker 2: last episode recap. So in our last episode, we chatted
Speaker 2: with the incredible women behind Rebel Tours out of London,
Speaker 2: and I had attended there. Jack the Ripper Tour called
Speaker 2: what about the women last year when we went to
Speaker 2: Crime Con and so we just knew we had to
Speaker 2: have them on Behind the Couch. We discussed their empathetic
Speaker 2: and feminist approach to the historical events within the realm
Speaker 2: of you know, also talking about ethical true crime tourism
Speaker 2: and history. So what we did, because this is our
Speaker 2: two hundredth, we ended up labeling that episode of bonus,
Speaker 2: just to make the numbers work. But moving forward are
Speaker 2: Behind the Couch episodes for the year, for the month
Speaker 2: will be regular numbered episodes. So I just wanted to
Speaker 2: let you guys know what to expect because here we
Speaker 2: told you what we're going to do and then it
Speaker 2: was like bonus. But we had to figure out something
Speaker 2: to make this the two hundredth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a milestone on many levels for us,
Speaker 1: so many things to talk about. I mean, it's an
Speaker 1: achievement for anybody that's in content creation, you know, who's
Speaker 1: brave enough to try and you know, put your stuff
Speaker 1: out there and see how the world reacts and if
Speaker 1: you have a voice. And I don't think we had
Speaker 1: the idea that we'd be around this long and doing
Speaker 1: as much as we have. It kind of crept up
Speaker 1: on us. Really it's weird.
Speaker 2: I mean I can think back to that first recording
Speaker 2: in your apartment, and I think on our intan we
Speaker 2: just like took a selfie afterwards and we were like,
Speaker 2: we think we just recorded our first episode. I don't
Speaker 2: know if I had any idea of like what the
Speaker 2: hell this would be, and it's been pleasantly surprising and wonderful,
Speaker 2: and we want to do like just start off with
Speaker 2: a little bit of a retrospective, a little look back,
Speaker 2: and we can't possibly list everything that these last seven
Speaker 2: plus years have brought us and brought you, but we
Speaker 2: thought it would be kind of fun to start off
Speaker 2: by looking backwards. We do have some guests that are
Speaker 2: going to then pop in in about twenty five minutes
Speaker 2: or so, and then we're going to answer some questions,
Speaker 2: some Q and a read some feedback from you guys
Speaker 2: that you told us favorite episodes, favorite moments, things like that,
Speaker 2: and if you want to add those in the chat,
Speaker 2: we will do our best to monitor that as well.
Speaker 2: If you have something that you want to just.
Speaker 1: Add live absolutely, I want to do something that I
Speaker 1: haven't really talked about much before. For getting started with this,
Speaker 1: there was such certainly true crime content has winnowed down
Speaker 1: over the last few years, and it's really kind of
Speaker 1: amazing that we've managed to stay afloat. I mean, we're
Speaker 1: very much a niche podcast. We get very academic at times.
Speaker 1: We want people to be educated and we want you
Speaker 1: to know about what's going on and enjoy it, right,
Speaker 1: But we had a pretty small listener base really for
Speaker 1: probably the first six months. And then a dear friend
Speaker 1: of mine from college that I was able to reconnect
Speaker 1: with over Facebook over the last decade or so who
Speaker 1: is a true crime fan, mentioned us on a Reddit
Speaker 1: discussion board, and that's when we blew up to the
Speaker 1: extent that we did, like literally within a couple of weeks,
Speaker 1: like all of our episodes were just being listened to
Speaker 1: and listen to and listen to. So Noel, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for that, because you were the one that
Speaker 1: just happened to drop it in a discussion and that
Speaker 1: comment didn't get banned, I guess, and it led to this.
Speaker 1: So yeah, this is really exciting that in seven and
Speaker 1: a half years, here we are.
Speaker 2: You know, blew up is relative, and we know that
Speaker 2: blew up for us, you know, just you know, it
Speaker 2: was just kind of a push to get us on
Speaker 2: the radar of other people that decided to stick around
Speaker 2: because they liked our stuff. So yeah, definitely an interesting
Speaker 2: moment to look back on too. So how should we
Speaker 2: do this? Just kind of talk year by year?
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let's talk about it. Let's start off in
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, which, like I can't believe, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's got long ago. Now can we just.
Speaker 2: Go back the good old days? Oh boy, we knew anything.
Speaker 1: The good old days right right, and the salad days.
Speaker 1: We started in October because we recorded our first episode
Speaker 1: on September twenty third, twenty seventeen, like you were saying,
Speaker 1: in my old apartment, and we entered you our first
Speaker 1: guest in twenty seventeen. Very close to that first episode,
Speaker 1: we were over at our friend Justin NIE's apartment, which
Speaker 1: was good. We didn't know what we're doing. How do
Speaker 1: we interview somebody? We had no equipment. We found this
Speaker 1: wonderful young filmmaker and audio specialist, great, great guy, and
Speaker 1: he set us up with Jen Haley, a really brilliantly
Speaker 1: talented writer who worked on mind Hunter and has done
Speaker 1: you know, many other things and including writing an award
Speaker 1: winning play that everybody should still read to this day.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I mean I don't know if people remember
Speaker 2: like that first year, like not calendar year, but first year.
Speaker 2: I mean, we have had four guests on the show
Speaker 2: two hundred episodes, right, not including the behind the couch stuff,
Speaker 2: but on the main episodes, we've had four guests, and
Speaker 2: Jen was our very first one when we were still
Speaker 2: I think, trying to figure out what the heck are
Speaker 2: we doing here? And you had made the connection through
Speaker 2: our friend Deb who was in this writing group with Jash,
Speaker 2: and we were like, oh my god, Mine Hunter is
Speaker 2: the best thing ever. Of course our audience would want
Speaker 2: to hear from her. So that's how that just kind
Speaker 2: of popped up, and we interviewed you interviewed a few
Speaker 2: other folks.
Speaker 1: Including Jim. Your connection with Jim Fitzgerald.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I retired FBI Jim Fitzgerald, and then had
Speaker 2: Al our friend on to talk about the Exorcist when
Speaker 2: we got into the you know, kind of our first
Speaker 2: meaty entertainment episode, a little cropsover episode, and then Harry
Speaker 2: when we talked about negotiations. So I realized pretty early
Speaker 2: like I did not love doing interviewing. In those early days,
Speaker 2: I felt very unskilled at it, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't love this. I absolutely love like our casual
Speaker 2: behind the couch situations. That's super fun. I don't know,
Speaker 2: maybe I just took the pressure off myself at that point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems like it, because I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: think that it's any different, and I think those they
Speaker 1: do come off as casual conversations, but you know, we
Speaker 1: approach them like interviews because we want to get the
Speaker 1: information out of these wonderful experts and individuals who you know,
Speaker 1: give their time to us. And then you know, we
Speaker 1: moved on to twenty eighteen. We recorded our first crossover
Speaker 1: episode with Hollyweird Paranormal, which was great. I went to
Speaker 1: a writing event with my friend David, who invented me.
Speaker 1: His daughter invited me and his daughter couldn't go, and
Speaker 1: it was like this really great publisher's award ceremony in
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills, and Karen and Georgia were there from my
Speaker 1: favorite Murder and I just thought, what the hell, I'm
Speaker 1: going to go introduce myself to them. So I went
Speaker 1: and introduced myself to them, and they were absolutely lovely
Speaker 1: and then there was just like this weird moment that
Speaker 1: is totally not them because they're awesome. But I thought
Speaker 1: that they were leaving to walk to their cars and
Speaker 1: it was like Hollywood Boulevard. No, not Hollywood, it was No,
Speaker 1: it was in hills. But I was like, oh, do
Speaker 1: you want us to walk you to your cars? And
Speaker 1: they'll look on their faces completely changed, like that says
Speaker 1: he's a forensic psychologist, he's probably a killer whatever, right,
Speaker 1: But they were really lovely to us, and that was
Speaker 1: really cool to have kind of a starry moment with
Speaker 1: these two you know icons in the true crime field.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially twenty eighteen, like talk about the height. I
Speaker 2: was so jealous of that. That was such a cool moment.
Speaker 2: And then here we are, like not even doing this
Speaker 2: for a year and Scott gets invited to be the
Speaker 2: first guest on the Ron Burgundy podcast. Now I shall
Speaker 2: say that was handed off to us by another forensic psychologist,
Speaker 2: Paula Bruce. Wonderful, Yeah, amazing, and was like, oh, I'm
Speaker 2: out of town and because she's in high demand everywhere
Speaker 2: and was like here you can have this thing.
Speaker 1: Now, you know what, doctor, let me tell you something
Speaker 1: to about doctor Bruce is the lady knows how to
Speaker 1: take a vacation too, because if you see her social media,
Speaker 1: like and she works her ass off, she has a
Speaker 1: thriving business. But like, I'll see her taking a vacation.
Speaker 1: I need to take a vacation. That's like I want
Speaker 1: to be like doctor Bruce.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding, But that was such a treat Scott.
Speaker 2: They were only going to have one forensic psychologist on
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh my god, you do it
Speaker 2: like I can't. I'm terrified. That is like to sit
Speaker 2: across the table from Will Ferrell, I don't know. I
Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to think. But they allowed me to
Speaker 2: be in the sound room while Scott was doing his thing,
Speaker 2: and it was the best experience.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 2: It like though, because he's in characters Ron Burgundy's dressed up.
Speaker 1: But he was not in he was not in address.
Speaker 1: But like beforehand, meeting him was just great. I mean,
Speaker 1: he was like absolutely kind. The entire production staff is like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I want to work here. They just
Speaker 1: all seem so happy. And I told them going in,
Speaker 1: like they were asking me questions about like what the
Speaker 1: show entailed, and I said, look if You're expecting me
Speaker 1: to be able to not giggle. I'm like, forget it.
Speaker 1: You need to find somebody else because I think he's
Speaker 1: a genius and I'm going to fall apart. But it
Speaker 1: was great fun. We really appreciated that opportunity. Yeah. That
Speaker 1: was also when we started recording in a police interrogation
Speaker 1: room that I had access to. Yeah, that was the
Speaker 1: year that we did that, because the sound quality was
Speaker 1: so much better than my apartment and because it has
Speaker 1: all these like kind of sound proofing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we started to just do it after work,
Speaker 2: which were very long days. I'm like, how the heck
Speaker 2: did we do that after working full days at work?
Speaker 2: But I also wasn't having to drive to your apartment
Speaker 2: and then drive home, so it was better. But yeah,
Speaker 2: that was very nice for mister Lieutenant Bixler to allow
Speaker 2: us to do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a very kind Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then from there, like I feel like it just
Speaker 2: was like flying by the seat of our pants really
Speaker 2: because twenty nineteen then brought our first festival, true crime
Speaker 2: podcast Festival in Chicago, And the wonderful thing about Laney's
Speaker 2: Festival is that they don't care how small of a
Speaker 2: podcast you are. It's like, you have a table, you
Speaker 2: can be here, you can be included, you don't have
Speaker 2: to have this giant following. And this is going to
Speaker 2: sound so cheesy, it ended up being life changing in
Speaker 2: a way. One for the podcast, but also the friends
Speaker 2: that we made that are just absolute staples in our
Speaker 2: life right now.
Speaker 1: Well, and also, let me qualify something that you said
Speaker 1: is like, yes, Laney and all of her team are
Speaker 1: so great and they don't care about what you're following is,
Speaker 1: but they do care about quality. So the idea that
Speaker 1: we were considered to be in that level of quality
Speaker 1: just really meant a lot to us and continues to
Speaker 1: this day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll save it for a couple of our guests,
Speaker 2: but this was the first time we met some people,
Speaker 2: like I said, that became really important people in our lives,
Speaker 2: and what a beautiful thing to look back on that,
Speaker 2: you know, we crossed paths in this way. But it
Speaker 2: was also our first presentation. I mean, they took a
Speaker 2: chance on us talking to their audience with Nick and
Speaker 2: Jessa and how people that were.
Speaker 1: You know, two wonderful people that we had had one
Speaker 1: conversation with, like one real conversation we had texted chatted email,
Speaker 1: but then one phone conversation, we meet him at the
Speaker 1: bar the night before, and then the next day it
Speaker 1: was like I felt like we had been doing presentations
Speaker 1: with them for years. The flow was so good, and
Speaker 1: we've got commentary on like how long have you known
Speaker 1: each other?
Speaker 2: And like literally just so Nick and Jessa the Getting
Speaker 2: Off podcast if you guys were listeners, if you remember it,
Speaker 2: they're defense attorneys from the Midwest at the time. I
Speaker 2: think one or both of them has moved, but yeah,
Speaker 2: their podcast was like the lawyer version of us, the
Speaker 2: defense attorney version of us. Really, so it was an
Speaker 2: awesome match. That was when we did our Mary Kayla
Speaker 2: Turner okay, and Scott was terrified that Mary kay La
Speaker 2: Turno's mom was.
Speaker 1: In the audience, and paranoia came through. That was so
Speaker 1: strange because this woman was brought in by a caregiver.
Speaker 1: She was in a wheelchair, and I just got this
Speaker 1: wild thought of like, oh my god, what if they
Speaker 1: like this is an angry relative or something, But they weren't.
Speaker 1: And that and also we had such an incredibly receptive
Speaker 1: audience that stayed through the lunch break because there were
Speaker 1: so many questions they had so that was another sort
Speaker 1: of like kind of watershed moment I believe for us
Speaker 1: as content creators to realize, oh wow, there are people
Speaker 1: that really respond to this type of quality, this type
Speaker 1: of discussion and really dissecting the information that was That
Speaker 1: was a great experience.
Speaker 2: And we got to share a table with Doctor Amy,
Speaker 2: Women in Crime Direct Appeal, and also another friend in
Speaker 2: the Champagne Girls. We got to meet them. They're so
Speaker 2: great Death by Champagne, which we still chat on social media.
Speaker 2: So got yeah, we did that. We came home, we
Speaker 2: were invited to do Pasadena a litfest, so Frank Girardo,
Speaker 2: author reached out to us. We had covered his book
Speaker 2: on one of our episodes on Arson in Pyromania, which
Speaker 2: we just talked about in our shrink crap and got
Speaker 2: to do that panel and met Steve Hodell, We met
Speaker 2: Carrie Martin, and that was also just something that was
Speaker 2: I don't know, kind of a big moment to be
Speaker 2: asked to do that and talk about true crime podcasting,
Speaker 2: but also meeting those folks was pretty awesome.
Speaker 1: Again, just more connections that you would you know, how
Speaker 1: would you ever encounter these people, you know, to share
Speaker 1: this kind of knowledge is kind of information. It's pretty great.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then I think that same year and Rebecca.
Speaker 2: We'll have to laugh about this with Rebecca, but we
Speaker 2: always talk about how like we met a true my
Speaker 2: podcast festival and literally within months we had a live
Speaker 2: show planned in Silver Lake here in LA and she
Speaker 2: was staying at my house and we were like, this
Speaker 2: goes against like every true crime thing that we know.
Speaker 2: I barely know, you come stay at my house, but
Speaker 2: obviously it worked out fine. Was that the year we
Speaker 2: did our first meet up at Halloween Hohrn Nights. I yes,
Speaker 2: CityWalk as well. Very cool. Yeah, twenty nineteen was like
Speaker 2: a whirlwind for sure for the show.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Then that was when you also came up with
Speaker 1: the really great idea of dabbling in vintage crimes. I
Speaker 1: mean we had kind of talked about it, but then
Speaker 1: you fleshed it out more. And I think that was
Speaker 1: also the year that Dan, my husband, for either of
Speaker 1: my birthday or for Christmas or something, gave me like
Speaker 1: this incredible book published in the nineteen fifties, all about
Speaker 1: crimes from nineteen ten up into the fifties, and each
Speaker 1: chapter was a different one, and we literally went through
Speaker 1: that book you know, and use them as like the
Speaker 1: foundation for additional research for these different crimes.
Speaker 2: Do you remember the name of that book? I literally
Speaker 2: my colleague was asking me today what it was. We
Speaker 2: were at the LAPD Museum today and he's like, what's
Speaker 2: that book that you and doctor Scott pulled some maircases from.
Speaker 1: It's on the coffee table. I'll send you a picture
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: Ye that okay, perfect, one of our many resources which
Speaker 2: we have a question in our Q and A about
Speaker 2: the resources we use, which could be a whole episode
Speaker 2: in and of itself, exactly. Yeah, okay, So we have
Speaker 2: about ten minutes probably till we're expecting our first guest,
Speaker 2: So I just want to kind of talk about like
Speaker 2: post twenty nineteen and into the year of twenty twenty. Gosh,
Speaker 2: we almost did another podcast. You guys don't know this,
Speaker 2: but we were.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it's probably it's probably nice to talk about
Speaker 1: it now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, twenty twenty killed it, so you can.
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's been a while. It's been you know,
Speaker 2: going on five years now. But essentially we got approached
Speaker 2: by a huge major production company to do this really
Speaker 2: cool idea. I mean, Scott and I have had a
Speaker 2: lot of things thrown at us as other ideas to
Speaker 2: do in terms of like other shows or adapting this
Speaker 2: into a television show, and honestly, not much felt interesting
Speaker 2: or great. And yeah, tell them what the concept was
Speaker 2: of this.
Speaker 1: And we actually recorded up here, and let me not
Speaker 1: I don't definitely don't want to bury the connection there.
Speaker 1: My really dear friend Michelle Zeitlin, that I was a
Speaker 1: performer with and a co choreographer with years and years
Speaker 1: and years ago, is just a dynamo of a producer
Speaker 1: and manager here in Hollywood, and she had listened to
Speaker 1: the show and she came to our live event with
Speaker 1: Rebecca Yes, and she just said, like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: keep my ear out, you know, if anything pops up,
Speaker 1: is it okay if I pitch you guys. So she
Speaker 1: made a connection with our other friend Serice, who is
Speaker 1: a producer on the New Unsolved Mysteries which had started
Speaker 1: around that time, and they got us a meeting at NBC,
Speaker 1: which was really pushing a podcast channel at that time.
Speaker 1: And you know, we didn't come up with the final idea.
Speaker 1: We just kind of pitched ourselves and like what we
Speaker 1: had to offer, and the executive actually was really helpful
Speaker 1: and she really helped us shape the idea and it was,
Speaker 1: without going into too much, it was a I thought
Speaker 1: it was like a really great idea because it was
Speaker 1: kind of engaging audience interaction where it's two forensic psychologists
Speaker 1: that are basically a cross between interviewing, evaluating, and interrogating
Speaker 1: a killer, a serial killer. And you know, we had
Speaker 1: sound effects in it, as if you're in a room,
Speaker 1: you're hearing us and we're asking questions, but we're also
Speaker 1: giving sort of explication of what's going on or exposition.
Speaker 1: And then we also use like a really wonderful young
Speaker 1: man as a voiceover artist to record some of the
Speaker 1: killer's actual dialogue from interviews. And it was all going
Speaker 1: to be like who am I? It's basically who who
Speaker 1: is the killer?
Speaker 2: Or name the killer and the audience has to decide
Speaker 2: who it is that we're talking to based on this interview.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And unfortunately COVID shut everything down, like it just absolute.
Speaker 1: There was a big shake up at NBC. There was restructuring,
Speaker 1: which I tried my best to prepare everybody for, like, go,
Speaker 1: this is Hollywood, this is the way things go. Is
Speaker 1: like don't get too attached to any of your projects
Speaker 1: because they can just disappear. Just you keep moving, you
Speaker 1: keep swimming, you keep grinding, and you have another idea
Speaker 1: in your back pocket. So other opportunities stand up for us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if we had done two podcasts.
Speaker 1: Well, that would have given us a whole stat too,
Speaker 1: like you know, we yeah, that's true. Weird, the amount
Speaker 1: of work have been a lot less, I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then we moved into you know, the days of COVID,
Speaker 2: which obviously perpetuated a lot of live streaming and reaching
Speaker 2: our audience that way, and the good old get vocal days.
Speaker 2: Our first guest will be able to tell us about that,
Speaker 2: because I think they kind of got us into it.
Speaker 2: But I remember, but the very first or second episode
Speaker 2: was the night of the civil unrest after George Floyd's death,
Speaker 2: and it was such a surreal moment to kind of
Speaker 2: be just like in it and living it with our
Speaker 2: audience live. It was really interesting. But I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: the rest of that year, we got freaking knee deep
Speaker 2: into QAnon. Just what a banana's time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we we just really plumbed me moving
Speaker 1: on from then as our you know, I think there
Speaker 1: wasn't a lot of time for socialization or wasn't opportunity
Speaker 1: during COVID, So we hunkered down and we started recording remotely,
Speaker 1: you know, both in our different locations. So we did
Speaker 1: I thought, what was like a real We got a
Speaker 1: lot of feedback on our episode about Stolen Valor, I mean,
Speaker 1: just really opened our eyes to the phenomenon. Overprotected is
Speaker 1: another one that really touched a nerve with a lot
Speaker 1: of people. It was about the quote unquote conservatorship or
Speaker 1: guardianship about the Britney Spears case, and that was something
Speaker 1: that was going on, which is not something we really
Speaker 1: always do. We don't necessarily always talk about things that
Speaker 1: are happening in the moment because we're both still so
Speaker 1: tied into our attachment or our connection with law enforcement
Speaker 1: and public services. Which is kind of wild, right that
Speaker 1: I did that so long ago because I had just
Speaker 1: gotten into it, and now the transition to my new
Speaker 1: position for the agency I work for is all about conservatorships,
Speaker 1: so that was wow.
Speaker 2: We also did our first walking tour for Patreon members
Speaker 2: in downtown Los Angeles with Chris from LA in a day,
Speaker 2: which was so much fun. That was really cool and
Speaker 2: one of two that we did. We had another meet
Speaker 2: up at Halloween Horn Nights. I think that's the year
Speaker 2: we lost Sukie on our ride, so we almost lost
Speaker 2: the Patreon mark.
Speaker 1: We lost her on the Harry Potter ride and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: she was in the car next to us, and then
Speaker 1: suddenly it's like, where's Sookie.
Speaker 2: I mean, disappeared and reappeared.
Speaker 1: Thanks Founder, We did find her, yes, But then we
Speaker 1: really went through also with the idea that you came
Speaker 1: up with of alternating our vintage La Crime so that
Speaker 1: we could go back and forth and offer you know,
Speaker 1: a real like things that were more current versus things
Speaker 1: that were much farther in the past.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I mean, I don't know how we
Speaker 2: did this, but twenty twenty two we hit our one
Speaker 2: hundredth episode that year, which was just like a very
Speaker 2: serious topic. We covered the epic topic of school shootings,
Speaker 2: which I stand by is one of I think my
Speaker 2: favorite episodes in the sense of like the timing and
Speaker 2: the research that was coming out and the information that
Speaker 2: we finally knew was just it just it stands out
Speaker 2: for me is one of our best episodes. But we
Speaker 2: also not in this order probably, but Pacific Northwest Festival,
Speaker 2: which has not happened again, it might happen again in
Speaker 2: the future, hands down one of our favorites. We presented
Speaker 2: at the California Hostage Negotiators Conference. We did our in
Speaker 2: cell presentation to about five hundred negotiators. I went to
Speaker 2: Savannah Crime Expo, got to sit next to these knuckleheads,
Speaker 2: Tim and Lance. We had tables together. We had a
Speaker 2: very fun time laughing at everything. We did True Crime
Speaker 2: Podcast Festival in Dallas that year, which was always a blast,
Speaker 2: and then we had a table the one and only
Speaker 2: time we've had a table at Crime con here in
Speaker 2: the US in Vegas Post Covid was also just a
Speaker 2: wild experience.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Another walking tour as well with our favorite tour guide
Speaker 1: down in downtown. And then we had a great article
Speaker 1: from Podcast Magazine that's on what we do. It's pretty great.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And since then, I mean twenty twenty three, we did
Speaker 2: our own live show at Heritage Square Museum with two
Speaker 2: of our besties, Tammy and Bryce, a Holywood paranormal and
Speaker 2: of course Dan and Greg from La Meekly and broke
Speaker 2: down one case from a crime historical and paranormal lens
Speaker 2: I thought worked really well. It was sold out. It
Speaker 2: was a blast. It was a lot of work and
Speaker 2: a lot of work that we did ourselves, but totally
Speaker 2: worth it.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was a lot of like Scramble and Jerry Rig things.
Speaker 1: I mean it was, but it was also in like
Speaker 1: a wonderful museum setting in a gorgeous falling apart church
Speaker 1: that hopefully people are donating money to this wonderful museum
Speaker 1: so they can restore it. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 2: We also did crime Con UK for the first time
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three and can't forget Parapod Festival.
Speaker 1: That was wild.
Speaker 2: Oh man, this Scott and I with our doctorate's diagnosing
Speaker 2: everyone at the Parapod Fest was good times, good times,
Speaker 2: and did a couple of things last year too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we went to crime Con UK again for another
Speaker 1: wonderful opportunity to present again probably I mean up there
Speaker 1: is the top three places we would go and present
Speaker 1: again really just because it's such a specialized audience. And
Speaker 1: then had a wonderful follow up to that. I mean,
Speaker 1: god that we were so busy last fall because we
Speaker 1: went right from crime Con UK into the Berkshire's Podcast
Speaker 1: Festival with Josh Hallmark, which was like really well organized,
Speaker 1: like there is just like they he and his staff
Speaker 1: just outdid themselves for the quality and organization of that.
Speaker 1: You know. It was a one day event with a
Speaker 1: couple of capping things on either side, a lot of fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, and you guys will be very proud
Speaker 2: of us. We have not one commitment this year to anything,
Speaker 2: well except for something we're gonna host, but we'll tell
Speaker 2: you about that later. But we haven't committed to any festivals.
Speaker 2: We're going to see what we feel like we got
Speaker 2: some man, I have a lot of travel planned already.
Speaker 2: We have a friend getting married. I have a family
Speaker 2: member getting married already. Some travel in the works, so
Speaker 2: we will see what pops up. But speaking of popping up,
Speaker 2: let's see if our first guest is ready.
Speaker 8: Oh my god, it's our dad.
Speaker 2: It's the man that.
Speaker 1: Made us daddy. I love not in a weird way.
Speaker 9: Relations Thank you.
Speaker 2: How is it going? It's going well? Here we are.
Speaker 2: Do you remember the first time we met?
Speaker 9: I do, yes, How could I forget?
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, that's that crawl space
Speaker 2: guy with the blazer in the satchel.
Speaker 9: I can't sylenty you guys, because I was listening to
Speaker 9: you guys on the way I think to Chicago that yeah,
Speaker 9: for that fest, and yeah, I was I was really
Speaker 9: excited to meet you guys. So yeah, I think you
Speaker 9: were the first people that I went right over to
Speaker 9: coming down for that festival.
Speaker 2: So at that time, what head so twenty seven, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, like kind of where was crawl Space at
Speaker 2: that time? Like what were you and Lancey Grace doing
Speaker 2: with it? Like and what was your vision? Yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 1: A good question. I don't know.
Speaker 9: We started podcasting in true crime doing Missing Moramari in
Speaker 9: twenty fifteen, and that led to a docu series on
Speaker 9: the disappearance of Moramuri that ran on Oxygen in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 9: So we were working on that case mostly through those
Speaker 9: first few years, and then we launched cross Space in
Speaker 9: twenty seventeen and started kind of ranching out a little
Speaker 9: bit more cases just other kinds of interests as well.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and I think we.
Speaker 9: Were right around the time where we were like, well,
Speaker 9: let's like we're meeting so many fun people that we
Speaker 9: really like, and you know, we're sort of like accidentally networking,
Speaker 9: like we really didn't intentionally do that. It was just
Speaker 9: we like people and we liked their show, and we'd
Speaker 9: talk to people at festivals like you guys, and it's like,
Speaker 9: let's kind of band together a little bit, try to
Speaker 9: slay this dragon together. Because podcasting is a crazy industry.
Speaker 2: As you guys done, it isn't it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so many personalities, and like I was saying earlier,
Speaker 1: you know a lot of shows have come and gone.
Speaker 1: It doesn't you know, just because something's gone after just
Speaker 1: a couple of seasons doesn't mean that it's not super
Speaker 1: high quality. But I do think that it says something
Speaker 1: about your longevity and the way you guys continue to
Speaker 1: create and evolve over a decade. That's wild. It's just wild.
Speaker 9: Well, I'm impressed with you guys, and you guys are
Speaker 9: almost a decade yourselves.
Speaker 2: And we're getting there. Yeah, Scott and I are. I
Speaker 2: don't know, like we've said, like, we cannot do this
Speaker 2: longer than ten years. We don't know what it looks like,
Speaker 2: but we're not doing this longer than tenures, So maybe
Speaker 2: the countdown?
Speaker 1: Why not?
Speaker 9: What's what's the harm?
Speaker 1: I was going to say, We laugh about the fact
Speaker 1: that we'll never run out of ideas. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: just like there's you know, there's something. Every time we
Speaker 1: turn around there's another, like here's a bizarre sub sub
Speaker 1: subcategory of a mental health issue that is completely related
Speaker 1: to this crime. Let's get on it, you know.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, it's always news that you guys can add
Speaker 9: your insight to.
Speaker 2: Well, and I wouldn't mind if we back away from
Speaker 2: this at some point. Well we will, but when we do,
Speaker 2: I'm sure you would. But we have built, like with yourself,
Speaker 2: such a network. Sometimes we feel like, is there a
Speaker 2: podcast that has not had us speak to something in
Speaker 2: terms of like forensic psychology and psychological aspects of crime,
Speaker 2: But yeah, of course there is. But we would like
Speaker 2: we will always be available for all of our friends
Speaker 2: and anyone who wants us on to give our two cents.
Speaker 2: Obviously that would be the sweet spot where we don't
Speaker 2: have to do any real work. We'll just guest on
Speaker 2: everyone else else's shows. But yeah, who knows, who knows
Speaker 2: what that will look like. But I mean, you're so
Speaker 2: kind to approach us and ask us to be part
Speaker 2: of the network that we were like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: this is this feels like a natural next step for us,
Speaker 2: and it really like the shows that you curated felt
Speaker 2: like family and it was just a perfect fit for us.
Speaker 2: So thank you so much to you and Lance for
Speaker 2: thinking of us in that way, bringing us in.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you guys. Yeah, you guys and such.
Speaker 9: I don't know, you're great people, great friends, and really
Speaker 9: your show adds credibility to the network and you know
Speaker 9: whatever we were were really trying to build, you know,
Speaker 9: with with all this stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what do you say is what has contributed
Speaker 1: to how have you and Lance done it? I mean,
Speaker 1: like I know that there's probably been a lot of
Speaker 1: dark Knights of the soul and conversations, but if you
Speaker 1: looking back over a decade, you know what, what is
Speaker 1: the most important thing about longevity? What's the secret.
Speaker 8: Ride that wave?
Speaker 9: I mean, I don't know, like it's is really like
Speaker 9: seesaw or like turbulent ocean kind of industry right now
Speaker 9: still and if you're trying to do it full time,
Speaker 9: it is really like crazy in that way. So I
Speaker 9: think staying together, like you know, like your team, you know,
Speaker 9: sticking sticking together trust and you know, like as you know,
Speaker 9: we've grown a part. As I guess people a little
Speaker 9: bit as I've grown a family in the past decade,
Speaker 9: you know, and we live you know, a ninety minute
Speaker 9: drive or something away. But we still have the same
Speaker 9: interests and still have the same chemistry and podcasting and
Speaker 9: things like that, even if we don't see each other
Speaker 9: all that often anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you're in the same boat as us.
Speaker 2: We are constantly saying, thank God we're doing this with
Speaker 2: someone else, you know, like who the people that do
Speaker 2: podcasts alone. I get the perks to that, but man
Speaker 2: to for the role coaster moments for you know, the waves.
Speaker 2: It's really nice to have someone to ride that with.
Speaker 2: And I'm glad you and Lance have had each other,
Speaker 2: you know, for all of that. And it's it's special
Speaker 2: to be able to do something like this with your
Speaker 2: best friend. I mean what I tell that to Scott
Speaker 2: all the time, Like, how many people get to have
Speaker 2: a creative project like this for years where you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes he and I are talking to each other more
Speaker 2: than we're talking to our spouses because the other hours
Speaker 2: of the week, you know, we're at work or whatever.
Speaker 2: So it is it's it's incredibly special and what an
Speaker 2: interesting medium to kind of give us this opportunity.
Speaker 1: There's been so many times when we've been recording and
Speaker 1: she's like, oh my god, I think I'm starving my kid.
Speaker 1: I have to go feed my child, or you're going
Speaker 1: to call DCFS on me.
Speaker 8: I have to go be a mom.
Speaker 1: I forget damn it.
Speaker 2: But we we always we also joke like about, you know,
Speaker 2: our years long text thread and I'm also like thinking
Speaker 2: back to you me, Scott and Lance have some really
Speaker 2: good text threads too over the years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, more the time.
Speaker 2: So we've texted you and we've been like, hey, guys,
Speaker 2: can we schedule a call with you? Like we have
Speaker 2: this concern and you're always so lovely. We're like, are
Speaker 2: we overreacting? Are we being stupid that we're going to
Speaker 2: bring this up? And you guys are always just like
Speaker 2: so sweet and gracious to anything these crazy colleges have
Speaker 2: to say.
Speaker 1: I have to say also, just like, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: funny because like there's so much that what our listeners
Speaker 1: are listening to right now is us not being able
Speaker 1: to talk about something that's really really huge. And when
Speaker 1: Shiloh and I were trying to figure out and navigate
Speaker 1: our way through it, we reached out to you both,
Speaker 1: and you were so great, you know, you were just
Speaker 1: so great. Like we got off the call after all
Speaker 1: of us vent and sharing our frustrations and realizing that
Speaker 1: we're all on the same page, and it was just
Speaker 1: such a relief. And then, oh my god, this is
Speaker 1: the thing that didn't What you didn't have is you
Speaker 1: didn't see my narcissistic extension rage, which means I was angry,
Speaker 1: like I had been not treated well. But when I
Speaker 1: realized how badly you guys had been treated, I was like,
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to lose my license because I'm
Speaker 1: probably going to go on a spree right now. I'm
Speaker 1: so angry that this happened to two people that we
Speaker 1: admire and care about so much. But thank you for
Speaker 1: being a great landing space for us. We just really
Speaker 1: appreciate it.
Speaker 9: Yeah, well, thank you guys for over the years, for
Speaker 9: all your insight and your entertainment and friendship. And yeah,
Speaker 9: we got to have you guys back on our show
Speaker 9: now that it's back up and running.
Speaker 2: For sure. So before you go, what are you and
Speaker 2: Lance up to these days? You can just kind of
Speaker 2: catch our audience up to speak.
Speaker 9: You know what, there's been more twists and turns in
Speaker 9: the past few months.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's even. It might be crazier than stop.
Speaker 2: Okay, we need to schedule.
Speaker 1: We really do. It's wild. Okay, we're back to.
Speaker 2: Crawl space and missing or just space right now.
Speaker 9: Crawl space and missing. Yeah, crawl space was doing a
Speaker 9: thing where we were airing other anyway, we'll do that
Speaker 9: on the call. Yeah and missing, Yeah, we're doing those regularly.
Speaker 1: Awesome.
Speaker 2: Thank you for making time regulations so much. All right,
Speaker 2: take care bye, all right, who do we have next?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, stop it.
Speaker 4: Oh gollys, I miss you, not me getting emotional. Stop
Speaker 4: that was a little nostalgic ry. I just got like
Speaker 4: I just remembered things i'd forgotten. I'm like, rest in
Speaker 4: peace to all the projects that I was gonna do.
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, right, I mean, you're what a ride.
Speaker 4: But like I just this has been. It's been really
Speaker 4: fun hearing you guys reminisce and it's so good to
Speaker 4: see your faces.
Speaker 2: Oh so good to see you too, and our three
Speaker 2: faces and my short hair and let me switch over.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's twenty nineteen, you guys.
Speaker 1: Twenty nineteen.
Speaker 4: Right where we met right, yes, yeah, yeah, oh no.
Speaker 1: That's that's True Crime Podcast festival, right.
Speaker 4: That's that's Chicago, Chicago.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, you.
Speaker 1: Hair that short. I don't remember your hair being me.
Speaker 2: It's so huge, chopped it like a year after I
Speaker 2: started my new job.
Speaker 4: And it's funny because now my hair is like that,
Speaker 4: it's in a ponytail right now, and your hair is
Speaker 4: a long like mine.
Speaker 2: But my hair's like pretty short right now. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: So I my first impression, you know. Here we were
Speaker 2: going like on year two of our show with that festival,
Speaker 2: and I remember Rebecca of course, like now that I
Speaker 2: know Rebecca like in full mode of having all of
Speaker 2: her branding and all of her stuff that had not
Speaker 2: even started yet. Here's my postcard, here's my sticker, here's
Speaker 2: my this. I was like, this girl is put together,
Speaker 2: like I don't even know. Try and you know, I
Speaker 2: can tell you make it, I know. And then we
Speaker 2: just like went out to dinner that night. We had
Speaker 2: the loveliest dinner. We were all so freaking exhausted, I know,
Speaker 2: but a really good time. It was. It really what
Speaker 2: what what are you up to these days? Lady?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 2: I mean a ton.
Speaker 4: It's weird, like I feel like I'm actually really in
Speaker 4: real time catching you up because through we don't cross
Speaker 4: paths as much, I know, as we once didn't.
Speaker 5: I I'm not I don't.
Speaker 4: Love that, but I'm you know, so I guess a
Speaker 4: lot of people through that would know both of us
Speaker 4: would probably connect me to dialogue, which I hung up
Speaker 4: as always what I say, which is a weird way
Speaker 4: to I don't know which I put on hiatus that
Speaker 4: never reopened, I guess.
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's already like just I mean the end
Speaker 4: of twenty twenty two, so it's been gone for two years.
Speaker 4: But I didn't leave podcasting, but I did take a
Speaker 4: little break from like all the concentrated true crime stuff.
Speaker 4: I think I actually really didn't know that I needed that,
Speaker 4: so and you know, so good to see Tim. Tim
Speaker 4: was talking about how hard it is to make a
Speaker 4: living full time podcasting, So you know, I've been figuring
Speaker 4: out my work situation and I've really come to love
Speaker 4: producing other people's podcasts.
Speaker 2: And it's just.
Speaker 4: Been this cool development of learning, like something else i'm
Speaker 4: good at and something else I enjoy. It's a different
Speaker 4: skill set and I still love hosting, and I do
Speaker 4: host a couple shows still, but mainly what I'm doing
Speaker 4: is producing shows for clients. So there's budgets and there's
Speaker 4: money and you know, always nice.
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about that because I
Speaker 1: know that, I actually know that several of our listeners
Speaker 1: who have reached out have asked us about, well, who's
Speaker 1: your producer? Like me and Shiloh.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you're looking at him.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the eleven AM or eleven people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so what tell us a little bit about what that
Speaker 1: this role is for you?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I'm sure you guys both know. I mean,
Speaker 4: my technical skills with editing and podcasting are pretty minimal,
Speaker 4: and like you know, I know just enough to either
Speaker 4: get by or be dangerous depending on who you ask.
Speaker 4: But a producer, you know, it depends on the project.
Speaker 4: And I think that's a subjective term, but for me,
Speaker 4: I think it's like a pot It's like a project
Speaker 4: manager for a podcast. So because Dialogue, I booked all
Speaker 4: those guests. That's actually a skill a lot of people
Speaker 4: I didn't realize was such a helpful skill. So booking guests,
Speaker 4: pre screening them and kind of setting everything up, especially
Speaker 4: if they're somewhat high profile or you know, a big
Speaker 4: get Like that's a big part of what I do
Speaker 4: is curating who I think will be great guests for
Speaker 4: a certain story that's being told, and then kind of
Speaker 4: following through on that story mapping. You know, it depends
Speaker 4: if it's like a nonfiction or fiction project. I've done
Speaker 4: entrepreneurial podcasts, like boring podcasts, interesting podcasts. I've done all
Speaker 4: kinds of podcasts, and it's just kind of figuring out
Speaker 4: what's the story they're trying to tell and helping them
Speaker 4: bring all the pieces together, so guests, editors a team, right,
Speaker 4: and helping the branding because I have that marketing background,
Speaker 4: so I get to speak into that, which is really fun. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so that's that's what I do. I kind of you
Speaker 4: wear a lot of hats and you kind of assemble.
Speaker 2: The team needed.
Speaker 8: It's like if you you.
Speaker 4: And Shiloh broke down all the roles you play, like, yeah,
Speaker 4: there's probably ten, you know, if you were actually going
Speaker 4: to like divvy up the responsibilities. It's it's figuring all
Speaker 4: that out and delegating and overseeing. I get to be bossy,
Speaker 4: which I realized I really like. So you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, another skill your muted Scott.
Speaker 1: If you I thank you, yeah, and get paid for
Speaker 1: it being bossy and get paid for it.
Speaker 4: Like it's actually my job to be bossy. And I
Speaker 4: hadn't realized how much I enjoy telling men what to do.
Speaker 4: That's cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, do it for as long as you're allowed to
Speaker 2: keep doing it. I mean, yeah, exactly. So what so
Speaker 2: when shows are you currently hosting right now?
Speaker 8: Sure?
Speaker 4: So, I'm still co hosting Criminality with the wonderful Melissa
Speaker 4: of Moms and Mysteries and Criminality. We do. We're disdown
Speaker 4: to like the first Fridays of every month. We both
Speaker 4: are are quite booked and busy, but we are, like
Speaker 4: you guys, just so close and can't imagine giving it
Speaker 4: up all the way. So we've just are like, we're
Speaker 4: doing this for us and our audience, and like we
Speaker 4: just it's the pure love of creating that show together,
Speaker 4: so that every first Friday we're still putting out new episodes.
Speaker 4: And then I created and launched a show in the fall,
Speaker 4: Cult Thank you for your interest, which has nothing to
Speaker 4: do with true crime but has to do with professional rejection,
Speaker 4: and that's coming back in March with the season two
Speaker 4: and I co host that. It's been amazing and cathartic
Speaker 4: and really helpful to a lot of people. So I'm
Speaker 4: very proud of that show.
Speaker 8: So those are the Tom hosting.
Speaker 4: And then I just had a show launch this week
Speaker 4: that is crime and I think your audience would super
Speaker 4: duper love called Devil and the Deep Blue Sea. And
Speaker 4: it's about the Satanic Panic era in America in the
Speaker 4: nineteen eighties and kind of it deals with West Memphis.
Speaker 1: Three, it deals with Martin Preschool.
Speaker 4: McMartin preschool, and it's even going to go back in
Speaker 4: time to kind of where this all came from and
Speaker 4: how it kind of formed politics and the church. And
Speaker 4: it's really interesting. And so that episode, episode one just
Speaker 4: dropped Monday. So Devil in the Deep Blue Sea.
Speaker 2: Okay, so that's when you're producing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, you'll hear me on the trigger warning at
Speaker 4: the top.
Speaker 2: Perfect. Oh good, because we all love to hear your
Speaker 2: voice for sure. Maybe that'll inspire A Scott to finally
Speaker 2: do our McMartin more would be pretty different the same. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a that's a very biggy.
Speaker 1: But there's so much more information about that that has
Speaker 1: come out over the years from the children. You know,
Speaker 1: the children are all now adults and they're almost forty yeah, right,
Speaker 1: lots of lots of differing perspectives and one voice that
Speaker 1: was completely muffled the entire time, Like was they refused
Speaker 1: to let him speak because he he knew it was
Speaker 1: all fake.
Speaker 2: Because it went against the narrative.
Speaker 4: That narrative, Yeah, convenient, and that was kind of local
Speaker 4: to you guys, right, that was an LA story that
Speaker 4: was like a not long beach Manhattan beach or something. Yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: that's a big one. I would be excited if you
Speaker 4: guys covered that because there's a lot there about it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, well, I mean I don't even want to
Speaker 2: attempt to try and talk about what you have meant
Speaker 2: to us for this time one because I don't want
Speaker 2: to like break down crying, and I'm so happy I'm
Speaker 2: going to get to see you at least we have
Speaker 2: something on the books this year. Were able to see
Speaker 2: each other way.
Speaker 4: Once, I know, but maybe before that to us.
Speaker 2: I hope so. But obviously a big part of what
Speaker 2: we feel like is our journey. I mean that picture
Speaker 2: kind of encompasses it. We're so cute and young, look at.
Speaker 4: That I know some fresh and I know we are
Speaker 4: not jaded there, that those are the faces of unjaded podcasters.
Speaker 2: But also for real, seriously, no idea. I mean, obviously
Speaker 2: there's just been like life has happened, but just all
Speaker 2: the weird podcast shit too that we have experienced together
Speaker 2: has been a whole book in and of itself. And yeah,
Speaker 2: there will be a tell all someday we can like
Speaker 2: at least feel it, I know. But we love you
Speaker 2: so much. Thank you, love you guys so much.
Speaker 4: You're like my favorite takeaway from ever starting podcasting and
Speaker 4: I don't say it enough. And I miss you guys
Speaker 4: so much. Thank you for inviting me here. Congratulations on
Speaker 4: all your success. You deserve everything and more and I
Speaker 4: love you so much.
Speaker 2: I love you too.
Speaker 7: All right, Oh this is oh geez crying John Lorden.
Speaker 1: Hi, Hello, Look at that handsome man. Do you see me?
Speaker 8: Okay?
Speaker 10: Yeah, okay, yeah on my end, I look like I'm
Speaker 10: Claymation or AI or something like I'm all.
Speaker 2: You are.
Speaker 1: The video is a little bit choppy, but the audio
Speaker 1: is great.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, it might do its thing in a second. Here.
Speaker 2: So Hi John, Hi, guys, how you been.
Speaker 8: Good?
Speaker 2: We've been good working obviously here we are. I mean,
Speaker 2: I know, two hundred episodes is like nothing to some
Speaker 2: other show. Not nothing, but.
Speaker 10: You know something two hundred or something that's a lot
Speaker 10: of work, a lot of dedication, coming back to it
Speaker 10: time and time again. And you know, I have the
Speaker 10: luxury of this is the only thing I do.
Speaker 2: So you know, you guys, says the man who runs
Speaker 2: half of the shows on YouTube. Two hundred is big. Okay,
Speaker 2: I'll take it.
Speaker 10: Yeah, But no, you guys are in the field helping
Speaker 10: people in real life. And that was part of the
Speaker 10: change that I welcomed in terms of seeing you guys,
Speaker 10: and that I really appreciated was we're finally having field
Speaker 10: experts move into this space.
Speaker 1: And share their knowledge, and that was such an.
Speaker 10: Important change for podcasts for true crime, and unfortunately, I
Speaker 10: think we've kind of moved away from that.
Speaker 1: A little bit. Again, it's like an arm wrestling match,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been interesting to see that because I think
Speaker 2: you're right, like kind of when Scott and I had
Speaker 2: this idea to do it, obviously true crime was nothing new,
Speaker 2: and that was our consideration, like, okay, like everyone is
Speaker 2: it too saturated? But what can we add? And we
Speaker 2: didn't think anyone was lending a voice in our area.
Speaker 2: But then yeah, you kind of had this wave of
Speaker 2: professionals mostly retired. Is it not insane like we are,
Speaker 2: but yeah, retired folks lending their voices. And I thought
Speaker 2: that was a big shift for true crime, like kind
Speaker 2: of that was happening around the time of like letting
Speaker 2: victims voices lead as well, which was really interesting to see.
Speaker 1: Are you guys aware of advocacy con at all?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, okay.
Speaker 10: Okay, yeah, I'll be joining that. It's their first year ever,
Speaker 10: and it's kind of aimed for that figuring out the
Speaker 10: part of true crime that could be helpful to people
Speaker 10: and trying to get those families together with the right resources.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, instead of getting lost in the you know,
Speaker 2: entertainment piece of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, lost and re traumatization of you know, people clamoring,
Speaker 1: you know, please be on my show, please let me
Speaker 1: interview you this you know, poor family or survivor that
Speaker 1: has just been through so much. Absolutely, I love that
Speaker 1: that's being done.
Speaker 10: Yeah, And it's weird because sometimes you'll have a family
Speaker 10: that goes to a particular creator and you know, pours
Speaker 10: their heart out and they don't know the difference between
Speaker 10: in La Not So Confidential or some other type of show,
Speaker 10: and they might hit an audience of a few hundred people,
Speaker 10: and then you know that story doesn't get picked up
Speaker 10: because other people are looking at it and they're like, oh,
Speaker 10: they've been on that podcast. You know, I'm going to
Speaker 10: sit on it for a while.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's always a tough dance on that well.
Speaker 2: And speaking of tough dances, one of the things that
Speaker 2: you know, we've never talked about publicly, that I know,
Speaker 2: Scott and I are most proud of is the collaboration
Speaker 2: that the three of us did behind the scenes where
Speaker 2: you approached us and said, hey, this is heavy stuff
Speaker 2: that we talk about and that we research and that
Speaker 2: we do. I really think there's a need to support
Speaker 2: other true crime content creators in a way that hasn't
Speaker 2: been done before. And essentially we brainstormed and I think
Speaker 2: did it the right way in which we ended up
Speaker 2: creating a support group for content creators that met once
Speaker 2: a month. And I can't think of, you know, many
Speaker 2: other things that I've done in content creation that has
Speaker 2: felt as directly like giving back and doing something really important.
Speaker 2: It was just like at a different level that I
Speaker 2: think other people hadn't thought about before. And here Scott
Speaker 2: and I are saturated in vicarious trauma all the time
Speaker 2: from our jobs and learn in grad school and intern
Speaker 2: like how to take care of yourself. But I mean
Speaker 2: it just I mean, can you add a little bit too,
Speaker 2: What was in your thinking, what you were seeing at
Speaker 2: the time when you kind of approached us about that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely.
Speaker 10: I mean when I came in on YouTube, there was
Speaker 10: a bunch of other creators that were peers of mine,
Speaker 10: one in particular, Kayleie Elise, who inspired me, and all
Speaker 10: of a sudden, she started facing a lot of personal
Speaker 10: life trauma that compounded with the subject.
Speaker 1: Matter took her out of the game.
Speaker 10: Yeah, she was a brilliant voice, but unfortunately that voice disappeared.
Speaker 10: There's so many more cases that could have been helped
Speaker 10: if she would have been able to stay around. And
Speaker 10: she wasn't the only one. I saw a pretty typical
Speaker 10: churn of you get into this, you could do it
Speaker 10: for four or five years, and you had to move
Speaker 10: away from it because of the exposure.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 10: So yeah, when I was thinking about some kind of
Speaker 10: support group, honestly, My relationship with.
Speaker 1: Danielle Hallen was built on that. Also.
Speaker 10: We were like, hey, how do we support each other?
Speaker 10: How do we take care of each other? So, yeah,
Speaker 10: it was I knew when I wanted to try to
Speaker 10: do something like that, I needed experts there with me,
Speaker 10: and I knew immediately it was the two of you.
Speaker 1: And I'm so proud of that too. Yeah.
Speaker 10: Is It's definitely one of the highlights. But there's another
Speaker 10: thing that you guys helped with, and that was the
Speaker 10: Elisa Gomez case.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yes.
Speaker 10: And the analysis that you gave us on that case
Speaker 10: inspired an investigator from a different state to swing in
Speaker 10: help on that case, become part of her family's family.
Speaker 10: And I literally I just heard from him yesterday. He's
Speaker 10: still working on that case. And we had a meeting
Speaker 10: in Minneapolis with a bunch of city council members because
Speaker 10: they reopened the case a couple of years ago, and
Speaker 10: they were trying to figure out, Okay, what do you
Speaker 10: guys have where we supposed to take this and he
Speaker 10: was literally citing your information.
Speaker 1: Wow about you two. Oh my gosh, I'm really like,
Speaker 1: I'm really moved by that, Like I I can't even
Speaker 1: have any words but thank you for sharing that. Yeah.
Speaker 10: Yeah, well, and that's not the only thing from that.
Speaker 10: We had a professor of criminology reach out to me
Speaker 10: and a couple of years ago he wanted to present
Speaker 10: a case to his master's students and he's like, John,
Speaker 10: do you have a case that you think would fit this?
Speaker 10: And I said, yes, the Alisa Gomez case. And you
Speaker 10: guys were so kind. I think it was doctor Scott
Speaker 10: in particular came and spoke to that class. We actually
Speaker 10: presented that case the classes for a few years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, professor told me it was Yeah.
Speaker 10: He said, look, I've done a lot of these courses.
Speaker 10: I think the most significant thing I ever did was
Speaker 10: presenting that case. Wow, in the way that we did it,
Speaker 10: and thank you for being a part of it. So
Speaker 10: I have to thank you guys, because wow, that would
Speaker 10: have happened without your help.
Speaker 2: It's not something that we get a piece of doing.
Speaker 2: And thank you for the opportunity. Definitely. Like we were
Speaker 2: kind of saying with we were talking to Tim earlier,
Speaker 2: you know, if we could just go on like helping
Speaker 2: to lend our voices on other people's podcasts, forever, we
Speaker 2: can do that forever. I don't know if we do
Speaker 2: this forever, But thank you for the opportunity. And you
Speaker 2: know that that those are the differences that you're making
Speaker 2: with the work that you do all the time and
Speaker 2: the fact that you are doing this full time. One
Speaker 2: is heavy stuff. But we all know how to take
Speaker 2: care of ourselves. We're practicing that very well. But yeah, thanks,
Speaker 2: I'm so glad that we made that connection. Gosh, I
Speaker 2: don't we had not met in person yet, I think
Speaker 2: when we were on that show to talk about that
Speaker 2: case and then yeah, but just built a wonderful relationship afterwards.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you're you're one of our staples, John, And
Speaker 2: of course during Get Vocal, like all of your fun
Speaker 2: games and everything during COVID, that like just you know,
Speaker 2: added to the levity.
Speaker 1: So more mental health, yeah, taking care.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 10: Well I'm going to be coming to LA in a
Speaker 10: few months. Okay, I want to see you guys.
Speaker 1: I've got it's going to happen, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 10: We've got a premiere that we're doing for a new documentary,
Speaker 10: a docuseries that's coming out called Vanished. It seems to
Speaker 10: be a title in the documentaries I do, there's always
Speaker 10: a vanishing, but this one's this case. So yeah, there's
Speaker 10: gonna be a premiere and if I can get you
Speaker 10: guys there, I'd love for you to be there, so
Speaker 10: let us know.
Speaker 2: But we'd be happy just to hang out with you
Speaker 2: for an evening, So please send us the date. That's awesome.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad we have something to look forward to.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thanks for your time, John and being here.
Speaker 10: Happy two hundred guys, Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 8: To take care.
Speaker 2: How cool?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: I know here they are put these guys last because
Speaker 2: I was like, how long is this going to take?
Speaker 10: I got a celebration milkshake, but then I was like drinking.
Speaker 5: It while I was listening. I was like, you finished
Speaker 5: the milkshake.
Speaker 2: What flavor milkshake is that? Bryce?
Speaker 5: Chocolate chip, cookies and cream.
Speaker 1: That's what.
Speaker 2: That's correct, Tammy Embryce. You guys were normal of talk
Speaker 2: about ogs of our podcast existence. I was looking back
Speaker 2: Tammy at our Instagram feed and when we did our
Speaker 2: cult episode, you commented on there like is this that one?
Speaker 2: And because I can't remember which of us cited each
Speaker 2: other at some point, but we were kind of covering
Speaker 2: similar topics at the same time, and that's how we
Speaker 2: were born as.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I was watching the Buddha Field Call.
Speaker 11: I was watching a little documentary and it was so
Speaker 11: weird because I heard your interview. You guys did an
Speaker 11: episode about it, and I'm like, holy, they know their stuff, man,
Speaker 11: they're amazing. And we did the we did our episode
Speaker 11: and I was like, Bryce, you gotta listen to this podcast.
Speaker 8: And that's how we I think we tagged on a post.
Speaker 11: Too, and that's how we got like like cooked blind
Speaker 11: and sinker with us.
Speaker 2: I know, look at this, but nearly eight years later,
Speaker 2: we are now you're our friends, we're tied together or yes,
Speaker 2: family's are friends.
Speaker 8: Now we got to do a blood ritual totally.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think we got to figure out when I don't know,
Speaker 2: Scott tell us when mercury is not in retrograde or
Speaker 2: there's a moon aligns with that or something.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Just what are you guys up to these days? What's
Speaker 2: new for holyweird paranormal?
Speaker 8: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 11: Well, as you guys know, I don't know if anybody
Speaker 11: has heard, but we're going to Windy City Parafest in Chicago.
Speaker 11: So there's this beautiful little paranormal convention that is happening
Speaker 11: in Chicago, Illinois. It's the first annual one, and a
Speaker 11: shout out to Frankie Everley, who is coordinating everything along
Speaker 11: with his team. They wanted to create like a convention
Speaker 11: that is not consistently made up of no offense is
Speaker 11: like just cis white.
Speaker 8: Male men like we're wearing.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 8: He wanted something very diverse.
Speaker 11: He's like, I need people of color, people from you know,
Speaker 11: the lgbt HUI community, you know. And I wanted to
Speaker 11: create a community not only of just those people, but
Speaker 11: of artists and and so in June the thirteenth through
Speaker 11: the fifteenth, he's going to have this convention and Bryce
Speaker 11: and myself are going to head over there and lead
Speaker 11: to talk about like Haunted Hollywood.
Speaker 8: It's gonna be like whoa, oh my gosh, the talk.
Speaker 8: I will be eat, I know, both of us will.
Speaker 1: We are to be sharing stories of our old school
Speaker 1: in Chicago.
Speaker 8: Do you remember when we.
Speaker 2: We put Bryce in the corner and made him do
Speaker 2: our slides we representation.
Speaker 1: In the corner.
Speaker 5: That's right. Long I was able to do a little
Speaker 5: bit about like.
Speaker 2: This tray there.
Speaker 1: He'll be fine, But we all also like I don't
Speaker 1: I do not want this to slip because this sort
Speaker 1: of harkens back to talking to Rebecca earlier. Is it's
Speaker 1: easy to forget how much we've actually done with you
Speaker 1: guys over the years, like from you being at my
Speaker 1: previous apartment where we had a blast just giggling while
Speaker 1: we recorded, and then doing Parapod the art was it Parapod?
Speaker 2: We did Parapod but then yeah, we.
Speaker 1: Also did the Heritage Square Museum, which was like I
Speaker 1: thought was I think it was a miracle that it
Speaker 1: came off that everybody, that all the attendees were so impressed.
Speaker 1: So you're our good luck charm for live live performances.
Speaker 2: I think, Yeah, our writer dies for sure. And you guys,
Speaker 2: I mean you're a writer dies.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Again, you are two extremely good friends doing this together.
Speaker 2: That and how long have you guys been podcasting now almost.
Speaker 8: Yeah as long as even friends almost eight years?
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, so same same amount of time as us.
Speaker 2: And it's like, can you guys even imagine trying to
Speaker 2: do this alone or without the other person.
Speaker 8: At this point, it's not the same without Bryce. When
Speaker 8: Bryce is on the Hiatis, it was weird. It was
Speaker 8: really weird.
Speaker 11: It was like open mic Night and crickets because like
Speaker 11: I need you know, he adds that finishing touch in
Speaker 11: his soapbox when he brings the soapbox.
Speaker 8: This the Bryce soapbox and.
Speaker 2: Every week, Yeah, Scott and Bryce must have bought theirs
Speaker 2: at the same soapbox store.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, we go to soapbox warehouse for ourls.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I look. I think it's an interesting dynamic. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's kind of tail as old as time of you know,
Speaker 1: gay men and fabulous women pairing up. But I think
Speaker 1: I won't speak for Bryce, but I will speak for myself.
Speaker 1: Is like I, you know, our process has just evolved
Speaker 1: into something that works so well. But I Shiloh is
Speaker 1: is actually the driver of everything, and she gets ship
Speaker 1: done in a way that I'm just not capable of.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if you guys have that dynamic.
Speaker 1: If we ever, like if somebody came and says, oh, here,
Speaker 1: we're going to give you a million dollars for your IP,
Speaker 1: I'm going to be like, yes, she gets like three
Speaker 1: quarters of it, like she's been doing the Lions.
Speaker 5: Share, Jammy gets all of it. I just want to
Speaker 5: be like my face on a sweatshirt and I'm.
Speaker 1: Just like that.
Speaker 2: Just pay me in Starbucks cards. It's fine.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, the engine for sure, I get to kind
Speaker 5: of be funny color commentary.
Speaker 1: But.
Speaker 8: Also the healthy minded skeptic.
Speaker 2: You're the past.
Speaker 5: Everyone of the best, good, good little dose in there.
Speaker 5: But yeah, and let's when.
Speaker 8: You go to these content locations.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I want to, like, I think that that's
Speaker 1: something in the genre in which you create that's super important,
Speaker 1: you know, like the work that you've done. I just
Speaker 1: was listening to my Victorian Crimes or something like that.
Speaker 1: Is the newer podcast really well done? And she didn't
Speaker 1: give you credit, but I felt like there was an
Speaker 1: implied credit when she said, we're not going to talk
Speaker 1: about the Winchester Mystery House because everything you've heard is
Speaker 1: completely wrong. Yeah, and yeah, I mean I've just I've
Speaker 1: learned so much from listening to you. And but like
Speaker 1: you don't you do not produce a show without every
Speaker 1: single freaking receipt, which we admire because that's what we
Speaker 1: aim to do with our resources and our research. And
Speaker 1: you know, I, I mean, I've had this conversation with
Speaker 1: Timmy and with both of you. Actually, like I am
Speaker 1: a believer, but I don't, you know, my mind is open,
Speaker 1: but it's not so open that what's left of my
Speaker 1: brain falls out right. But I think it's interesting to
Speaker 1: be open to phenomenon whatever the source of that phenomenon is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think you know you are
Speaker 2: like us and that you will forever have material right
Speaker 2: for your show. You can reach into the past. Obviously
Speaker 2: we have the kinship of really being like La Hollywood
Speaker 2: centric as well, where we can pull stuff from that
Speaker 2: which is never ending. But the chemistry is amazing. Yes,
Speaker 2: you know, Tammy brings the receipts. She's the person you
Speaker 2: perk up and you listen to and then you hear
Speaker 2: like the soapbox coming out, and I'm like, I got
Speaker 2: to turn this up because I'm I'm going to learn
Speaker 2: something from Bryce, who is, however, much younger than me,
Speaker 2: and he is going to absolutely school me and like
Speaker 2: blow me away with a perspective on something. That's why
Speaker 2: I've loved you guys so much. So I'm so glad
Speaker 2: that just that I could listen to your show, but
Speaker 2: the fact that we decided to meet it do Pars
Speaker 2: that day and lost, you.
Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, it was so fun.
Speaker 5: The four of us and Emma Roberts and Evan Peters.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we basically all shared a table and I looked.
Speaker 1: At each other. We were like, boy, you gotta run.
Speaker 1: I know, I was like pancake. And that's when you
Speaker 1: had your your fabulous like and the big Viking beard look.
Speaker 2: I know, right, gosh, well what again, I mean other
Speaker 2: than the festival, you guys still, I mean being pretty
Speaker 2: consistent with your episodes. Anything new Hollywood Paranormal coming up
Speaker 2: for you guys this summer or anything.
Speaker 8: No, not at the moment. I mean, we're just doing
Speaker 8: you know, we're just continuing to.
Speaker 11: Record and trying to update our you know, Patreon, and
Speaker 11: trying to be consistent, but also trying not to burn
Speaker 11: ourselves out too.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I know that.
Speaker 8: You know, we noticed that with a lot of podcasters
Speaker 8: out there are.
Speaker 11: Friends who it's just they are consistently putting things out there,
Speaker 11: and then they burn themselves out and then that's the
Speaker 11: end of it. And you know, I honor I always
Speaker 11: honor Bryce's schedule, and like when he needs to take
Speaker 11: a break and he does the same with me, and
Speaker 11: it's like we're both tired, you know, let's take a break.
Speaker 8: Yeah, let's not burn ourselves out. I think that's why,
Speaker 8: you know.
Speaker 11: That was the key of like being so consistent and
Speaker 11: understanding is just understanding you know where we're coming from
Speaker 11: and our time and yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well let's please get a drink soon. We're going
Speaker 2: to have you will meet up coming up this spring,
Speaker 2: so we would love to have you guys there, or
Speaker 2: we'll just put our own thing now that we.
Speaker 11: Need to listen here and we need to put that
Speaker 11: out there. We need to have another collab events, something
Speaker 11: so intimate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we do for sure. We discussed that with from
Speaker 1: Beneath the Hollywood Sign, So we'll reach out to you guys.
Speaker 1: Oh a room that they have access to, that would
Speaker 1: be cool.
Speaker 2: That is so awesome. Well, thank you for making time
Speaker 2: to be here. Anything for you, anything, guys, Love you
Speaker 2: guys so much.
Speaker 1: Have a great night.
Speaker 2: Thanks nights. Oh god, no, no, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1: Geez. I what a what a journey. It's so easy,
Speaker 1: especially with my squirrel brain, you know, I those of
Speaker 1: us that are neurodivergent on the ADHD spectrum see time
Speaker 1: and experience time and kind of a different way. And
Speaker 1: that it was that like is a little bit shocking
Speaker 1: to me to like reconnect with these people of like
Speaker 1: how much intense time we spent with them, especially during
Speaker 1: the intense city of COVID when we were all doing
Speaker 1: this reaching out to each other electronically. It just makes me.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm I'm just impressed that we have such
Speaker 1: quality people in our lives.
Speaker 2: Again liked endless. I mean, I just you know, can
Speaker 2: scroll through who we follow and just be like, oh
Speaker 2: I miss them, I miss their face. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: in different ways. Especially the folks we've had here tonight,
Speaker 2: we've just connected so deeply. So with that, we thought
Speaker 2: we'd move on to some kind of some listener fan
Speaker 2: favorite quotes, episodes, comments, and we'll move into some Q
Speaker 2: and A to round out this episode. So I did ask,
Speaker 2: you know, it's interesting because we have so many hours
Speaker 2: of content, and I was asking people, like, how do
Speaker 2: you ask someone to go back and remember, like, Hey,
Speaker 2: what's your favorite quote or whatever? I mean, I can't
Speaker 2: even think of him. I know, there's so many good ones.
Speaker 2: But we did get some responses, which of course are hilarious,
Speaker 2: and then I want to read some that apparently, like
Speaker 2: I used to just post quotes on our Instagram, like
Speaker 2: the funny shit I thought you said in each episode.
Speaker 2: Maybe I was trying to like get people to be like,
Speaker 2: get to know us, like we aren't the psychologist with
Speaker 2: the sticks of our asses that we sound like. Scott
Speaker 2: does say something hilarious and cute all the time. But
Speaker 2: Bridget our fellow psychologist from New Zealand, Patroon member love
Speaker 2: we have seen her through I think two babies now,
Speaker 2: I'm real, I know our big family. But she's this
Speaker 2: is not our quote, but I think it was actually
Speaker 2: in a review or a comment where someone was being
Speaker 2: snarky about us, like not in a good way, in
Speaker 2: a negative way, but they called us over credentialed, smarty
Speaker 2: pantss or we quoted that when we like read it
Speaker 2: back and she's like, I would totally buy this as
Speaker 2: March and.
Speaker 1: We both like, like even me being hyper sensitive to
Speaker 1: to bad reviews, Like we both just giggled and thought,
Speaker 1: like that's a compliment, I know.
Speaker 2: But she said another favorite quote of hers of yours
Speaker 2: was just to own your ship. Like ownership people, whether
Speaker 2: you're talking about yourself, me or listeners, the people that
Speaker 2: commit crimes that you know we're constantly talking about. Everyone's
Speaker 2: got a little part in something, and own your ship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, and it's nothing. I appreciate that it peaked
Speaker 1: her ear or or anyone's ear. We've actually gotten that
Speaker 1: several times, people saying that they like that. And you know,
Speaker 1: I often say to my clients that there's very little
Speaker 1: new developments and clinical treatment for developing insight. You know,
Speaker 1: like the same stuff has been around for not only
Speaker 1: hundreds of years, but thousands of years from philosophers and
Speaker 1: own your shit is can be you know, another way,
Speaker 1: it can be a little bit more of a practical
Speaker 1: way of saying, be mindful. You know, own your shit
Speaker 1: is actually a secret when you take responsibility for your
Speaker 1: role in life. And yes, I'm not saying like, no,
Speaker 1: we're not all in the same boat. I get that,
Speaker 1: but owning your shit, owning your challenges, having insight is
Speaker 1: absolutely life changing. So I'm glad that somebody picked up
Speaker 1: on that. But then, how about our name plates for
Speaker 1: our conference table that you printed out all, Oh my.
Speaker 2: Gosh, yeah, I don't have those handy, so mine, said
Speaker 2: doctor Shiloh. I'm a fucking professional.
Speaker 1: Underneath mine said, I'm a professional, know it all.
Speaker 2: Professional, know it all, Doctor Scott, professional know it all. Yes,
Speaker 2: those were our job titles that we put out on
Speaker 2: our tables. John, who is amazing wealth of knowledge. We've
Speaker 2: talked about him before, who just knows everything about the
Speaker 2: vintage stuff and entertainment.
Speaker 1: Like beyond any of my colleagues, and I have a
Speaker 1: lot of colleagues, but he is exceptional.
Speaker 2: Yes, So he reached all the way back to episode six,
Speaker 2: which was when we talked about therapists depictions in entertainment.
Speaker 2: But this little back and forth where I know, I
Speaker 2: don't know what we're talking about, but I said, I
Speaker 2: can't answer this question because I don't watch Star Trek.
Speaker 1: Well, I knew something was wrong with you. I just knew.
Speaker 1: And I said, Okay, yeah, I knew something that's wrong
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 2: And this is so funny because John, I'll get a
Speaker 2: kick out of this. But I just I went up
Speaker 2: to San Francisco on Sunday night to go to a
Speaker 2: board meeting on Monday, and at our hotel where we
Speaker 2: were having our board meeting and staying was a Star
Speaker 2: Trek convention. And I walk in the hotel and I
Speaker 2: just immediately see a guy with twenty ears and I'm like,
Speaker 2: what is happening? And then all of a sudden, like
Speaker 2: a panel must have let out, and they were everywhere.
Speaker 2: And so here I am sitting with a bunch of
Speaker 2: cops like it was negotiators, and we're surrounded by people
Speaker 2: painted green and people in their little Star Trek outfits,
Speaker 2: and it was it was pretty funny. I was like,
Speaker 2: there's something for everyone. This is what people are looking
Speaker 2: at me when I'm at some Twin Peaks festival. But
Speaker 2: good times. He also commented he thought it was a
Speaker 2: behind the couch episode, so he was paraphrasing here, but basically,
Speaker 2: you're like, hey, it's autumn and that makes me think
Speaker 2: of putting on my old cardigan and sipping a Pumpkin'spice latte.
Speaker 2: And then I called you a basic bitch, And I.
Speaker 1: Said, I'm such a basic bitch because I am like
Speaker 1: you owned your shit. Well I own my shit. I like,
Speaker 1: you know, I like I'll sometimes allow myself to feel
Speaker 1: a little bit special. Uh, you know what, We're all.
Speaker 2: Unique, We're all unique, but we're all basic bitches, right.
Speaker 2: So I wanted to go back onto our Instagram. I
Speaker 2: pulled some what I would do, like I would just
Speaker 2: make these posts with quotes and I don't know if
Speaker 2: you know what This one is from these are very early,
Speaker 2: like I'm talking first few episodes, but the quote is
Speaker 2: and I have zero context for this is and this
Speaker 2: is you Chaz Darling, which was a name that we referenced,
Speaker 2: and you said, like a drag queen in Tampa. And
Speaker 2: I don't know who Chazz Darling was.
Speaker 1: I don't even remember that. Oh my gosh, but you
Speaker 1: pulled that out of queen Tampa.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god, Tampa. And then I have another
Speaker 2: one that's where you said, I don't know if this
Speaker 2: was you or me, Actually, let's get rid of that
Speaker 2: pesky murder charge and get you a job in law enforcement.
Speaker 2: So someone must have killed somebody and then gotten a
Speaker 2: job as a cop. Gosh, where did the other one go?
Speaker 2: And then one of us said non missionary sex, what
Speaker 2: a concept?
Speaker 5: So I don't know.
Speaker 2: Apparently back then thought.
Speaker 1: They were hilarious, and it's really hard to tell would
Speaker 1: have said that now at this point either one of
Speaker 1: us would have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally. I mean, and you guys, I know
Speaker 2: there's so many and we tried for a minute. I
Speaker 2: think I posted a handful of Scott takes, you know,
Speaker 2: some audio on our social media of Scott's hot take
Speaker 2: of the episode. But I just could not keep up
Speaker 2: with it, like I wish.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know. It's one of the things that
Speaker 1: was really frustrating because both of us have like some
Speaker 1: like when we get going, we had some really good
Speaker 1: quips and one of our pre we love our current platform,
Speaker 1: and we our platform current platform love it. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: one of our previous platforms had this little thing where
Speaker 1: listeners who were listening to shows on that platform could
Speaker 1: pick their favorite quote and post it like it was.
Speaker 1: It was a great little little thing to have happened.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to see that go. That would have been
Speaker 1: really cool. So you going on to fan favorite episodes,
Speaker 1: Bridget you know, who was so helpful and helping us
Speaker 1: pick these things out. Went on to say that her
Speaker 1: favorite episode was always the Patreon episode with the Tennis
Speaker 1: podcast talking about the smartest serial killers. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: great conversation.
Speaker 2: That was so you guys, We've done crossovers with Tennis podcast.
Speaker 2: I've been on the show as a guest host several times.
Speaker 2: We still need to get you on there, doctor Scott.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna dm Nick, who couldn't be here tonight. We
Speaker 2: invited him to be on but you can make it.
Speaker 2: But they do top ten lists that the other person
Speaker 2: has to guess, and so we had them on a
Speaker 2: Patreon episode eventually was you know, I think it was
Speaker 2: a live stream that we did, probably back on Get
Speaker 2: Vocal in those days. But Nick and I teamed up
Speaker 2: and quizzed you and his then co host Brandon on
Speaker 2: Smartest serial Killers based on IQ and so much fun.
Speaker 2: Love them, love them, but also at this point a
Speaker 2: nice little time capsule because Brandon has since passed away,
Speaker 2: and therefore, you know, Nick has kind of a rotation
Speaker 2: of guest hosts on the show. Wonderful show still, but
Speaker 2: there's really nothing like the days of Nick and Brandon,
Speaker 2: like when I first started listening to them, Like, these
Speaker 2: guys are like the brothers I never had.
Speaker 1: It's just incredibly sweet, sweet, smart, funny guys just just
Speaker 1: top notche, both of them, just top notche.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So other fan favorite episodes, so don from Instagram. I
Speaker 2: giggle because there's a theme here, but she says, I
Speaker 2: really enjoyed the Disney Crimes episodes, including them Behind the
Speaker 2: Couch from twenty twenty, because we did a follow up,
Speaker 2: we had so many like Disney crimes that we did
Speaker 2: a follow up and she said, I just discovered the
Speaker 2: podcast and Scott's anecdotes had me hooked along with your
Speaker 2: commitment to and explanations of Disney culture, the psychology of
Speaker 2: Disney culture.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, we're part of it. I mean I
Speaker 1: think that there's actually a lot to talk about that
Speaker 1: we referred to actually without going into it, we've talked
Speaker 1: about it on that content that we've created, but there
Speaker 1: was also like for me, one of the things that
Speaker 1: is about how it meshes our friendship together is these
Speaker 1: really amazing moments in my life and in the joining
Speaker 1: of our families that we spent going there and being
Speaker 1: kids again, like to be able. You know, when you're
Speaker 1: going the stress of grad school goes away when you're
Speaker 1: just allowing yourself to eat as much sugar as you
Speaker 1: want and be on rides and be silly and also
Speaker 1: enjoy other and watch other people enjoying themselves. So like,
Speaker 1: I get it. It's not for everybody. I mean, I
Speaker 1: really get it. But one of the funniest hate reviews
Speaker 1: like and it was funny because both you and Bixler
Speaker 1: thought that I was going to be really pissed off
Speaker 1: about it like, but you you've got called what a
Speaker 1: what cop? Or a cop lover or something. I can't wait,
Speaker 1: I don't remember what the adjective was for something cop
Speaker 1: And I got called a Disney adult, like she thought
Speaker 1: I would be insulted by that, like I I don't
Speaker 1: know what your I actually you know, I mean, like
Speaker 1: in all seriousness, like there is for those of us
Speaker 1: that had childhoods that were really you know, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say I was impoverished, but there wasn't a lot going around,
Speaker 1: and so to be able to kind of recapture and
Speaker 1: reignite that and share it with friends, I think is
Speaker 1: actually something quite beautiful. Yes, it's a corporate entity, but
Speaker 1: it was like a really cool experience and I kind
Speaker 1: of felt sorry it is, like what what is that about?
Speaker 1: Like projecting like a Disney adult? Like I could almost
Speaker 1: imagine that it's being spit out like that. But you
Speaker 1: know what, everybody, you know, you do you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding. And then Jeff from Facebook he said,
Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of the Disney episode. So I
Speaker 2: mean we had more the one person when we put
Speaker 2: out there, what's your favorite episodes? That said it was
Speaker 2: the Disney ones. You know, interception for everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is, and also that that also is a
Speaker 1: fascinating crime about this, I mean, I'm sure they're including
Speaker 1: the one the celebration residential murders in right Orlando, which
Speaker 1: is just family annihilation.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we also heard a little bit more from Bridget.
Speaker 2: She elaborated here. She says, I love the really niche
Speaker 2: episodes no one else does in cells, body integrity, identity disorder,
Speaker 2: clergy offenders, dog shows. Remember we did a dog show
Speaker 2: episode Beauty pageants. The research is mind blowing in these areas,
Speaker 2: and it's nice having it summarized and challenging. What is
Speaker 2: presented in entertainment is so important. I really enjoyed the
Speaker 2: Patreon guest who talked about hazing, and in light of
Speaker 2: the abortion bands in the US, I was really interested
Speaker 2: in infanticide and how this increases when abortion is less available.
Speaker 2: My favorite soapbox is around rape laws targeting gay sex.
Speaker 2: She says, although I've probably oversimplified this massively, and as
Speaker 2: a psychologist, I love being able to formulate. Also, Richard Ramirez,
Speaker 2: based on the history you provided of him, it didn't
Speaker 2: make me forgive his crimes, just understand the pathway that
Speaker 2: got him there. And then I'm very proud of her
Speaker 2: very last comment here where she says, and you brought
Speaker 2: me over to team intruder on the John Benney Ramsey case.
Speaker 2: So that was a very sweet summary of a lot
Speaker 2: of what we've covered a lot.
Speaker 1: I'm also really happy that that particular formulation works for
Speaker 1: It works for a lot of people because when when
Speaker 1: you are an observer of this media on I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say a supervisial level, but on a base level, it's
Speaker 1: just really easy, depending on how the media is presented,
Speaker 1: to fall into this perspective that people are all good
Speaker 1: or all bad and they're they're not. People can do absolutely,
Speaker 1: absolutely heinous things that they absolutely should be punished for.
Speaker 1: But let's not shut off our understanding for how people
Speaker 1: get there, so that we as a society and we
Speaker 1: as individuals endeavor to prevent that from happening. You know,
Speaker 1: we should all be thinking about it, like if we
Speaker 1: say that we love our kids so much and we
Speaker 1: want to keep our kids safe, and let's actually do it,
Speaker 1: you know, let's actually protect our kids so that that
Speaker 1: match never gets lit. To throw on the fire of
Speaker 1: those of the three footed stool metaphor that you use.
Speaker 2: Well and I nothing.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's just always humbling to me when we get good
Speaker 2: feedback from other mental health professionals, because just like any
Speaker 2: other profession I think we can always kind of look
Speaker 2: at each other with like an assessment of you know,
Speaker 2: how good are they compared to me? Or you know,
Speaker 2: do they know their stuff or that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: And for somebody like Bridget who's a psychologist, or the
Speaker 2: amazing social workers or psychiatric nurses or you know, MFTs
Speaker 2: that write in and tell us what our show has
Speaker 2: given them or meant to them or help them in
Speaker 2: different perspectives is amazing. And then you can have someone
Speaker 2: that's just a fan of true crime and a novice
Speaker 2: and wants to know a little bit more. And I
Speaker 2: think it's a lot to be proud of that our
Speaker 2: show reaches that spectrum of folks. So I don't care
Speaker 2: how big our audience is. The fact that there is
Speaker 2: you know, sort of people sprinkled all over that spectrum
Speaker 2: is what makes it really special.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great, it's awesome, and we have the best
Speaker 1: audiences ever and every we just do. I don't have
Speaker 1: a lot to compare it to with other people that
Speaker 1: have I mean no, I guess some of our guests
Speaker 1: today they talk about their interaction with with their listeners,
Speaker 1: and I think we've just been lucky to associate with
Speaker 1: some really stellar people that has helped us keep our
Speaker 1: keep our standards high, which is a difference. Let's let's
Speaker 1: go on to we want to do a little bit
Speaker 1: of a Q and ah. The people that are still
Speaker 1: with us, thank you so much. You're just wonderful to
Speaker 1: listen to you guys us here and stroke ourselves. But
Speaker 1: that sounded gross. Sorry, did not mean to say that,
Speaker 1: like pat ourselves in the back. That's what I meant.
Speaker 1: That's what I meant. If you have questions in the chat,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to answer a couple of them right now,
Speaker 1: or both of us actually will communicate from Instagram. Said
Speaker 1: what databases do you use when researching your shows? And
Speaker 1: we use a lot. We actually have a lot of resources.
Speaker 2: Number of sources, yeah, tons of sources. I mean obviously
Speaker 2: we've kind of mentioned like books and oh gosh, I'm
Speaker 2: so sorry, I need to update the website too. On
Speaker 2: our resources, we always put a resource page there for
Speaker 2: you guys. But as far as databases go, I mean,
Speaker 2: if you can get a research gate account, it's a
Speaker 2: great place to start for just to start throwing in
Speaker 2: some terms and seeing what journal articles come up. So
Speaker 2: many of them are accessible as a full PDF download.
Speaker 2: Other ones you might not be able to access, but
Speaker 2: there's a button right there that says request from the author.
Speaker 2: Then you're not having to like subscribe to a database
Speaker 2: that you have to pay to get something. Sometimes they'll
Speaker 2: just send you the pdf.
Speaker 1: So researchers are so happy that somebody like, oh, looking
Speaker 1: at my paper, they'll send you the pdf. It's great.
Speaker 1: Totally Google, you know, Google is a part of the
Speaker 1: evil Empire right now, unfortunately, but Google Scholar has been
Speaker 1: a real boon to us. The thing with any search
Speaker 1: engine if you're not going directly to the journals page
Speaker 1: like Sage Journal or ebsco host. I mean, I have
Speaker 1: an ongoing membership to ebsco host, which gives me access
Speaker 1: to all the psych journals, which is great. I wish
Speaker 1: I had the extension of that. That's all the like
Speaker 1: law enforcement research, but I you know, you have some
Speaker 1: of those. We have different forms of access basically, but always, always,
Speaker 1: always go past the first five pages on your search
Speaker 1: because the algorithm varies some of the best stuff, and
Speaker 1: that's really unfortunate. That's just unfortunately the way everything's programmed now.
Speaker 1: So you keep searching. I think that finding stuff in media,
Speaker 1: like even listicles in places like BuzzFeed, can often be
Speaker 1: a really great springboard into further research. And then and
Speaker 1: then I'll just go into a halt, like you guys
Speaker 1: should see our computer files. I mean, we are just
Speaker 1: stuffed with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of articles. And
Speaker 1: then also one of the things if you are couldating
Speaker 1: research for anything, the Google Chrome extension, which I believe
Speaker 1: is called libson I'm not sure, but there's a Google
Speaker 1: Chrome extension that takes all of your data and puts
Speaker 1: it into APA format and you can choose all of
Speaker 1: the APA format AMA format. It's a miracle. It would
Speaker 1: have changed my life. I mean, I can think about
Speaker 1: how I had to slog through doing my dissertation by hand.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, all that formula.
Speaker 2: Was terrible, or just the mybib that puts your resarc
Speaker 2: my bib. Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, And I just want
Speaker 2: to add real quick, Abby jumped in. It's okay that
Speaker 2: you're a late girl. Don't worry about it, but she
Speaker 2: says she loved the Britney Spears and Kanye West episodes
Speaker 2: very informative as well as the new Delphi Ethics episode
Speaker 2: was a good listen and we got a lot of
Speaker 2: We're still getting feedback trickling in about that. One of
Speaker 2: our Champagne girls was just dming me about how much
Speaker 2: she really appreciated that episode, so oh great.
Speaker 1: Well. Annabelle from Instagram said, I'd be interested in how
Speaker 1: you stay safe as a forensic psyche in Australia. At
Speaker 1: least forensic clients are not handcuffed when treated by their psyches.
Speaker 1: How do you not get attacked? I recently heard of
Speaker 1: a murderer who killed the forensic psychiatrist who had testified
Speaker 1: against him. How about families that have their kids taken
Speaker 1: away revenge plots. I'd be interested in forensic psyche, but
Speaker 1: I don't want to die. You know, that's a really,
Speaker 1: really good question. I think that we've talked about various
Speaker 1: elements of it. I will say this, I have never
Speaker 1: felt more safe than when I was working in a prison. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it is a very very controlled environment. It is
Speaker 1: not inmates who are in a position of being high acuity,
Speaker 1: they've been there for a while, they're settled into their
Speaker 1: routine or what they call program. And there's also no
Speaker 1: cred in harming a mental health worker. Like there's a
Speaker 1: really famous and horrific, horrific, tragic case here in California
Speaker 1: where a female social worker, lovely, lovely, middle aged female
Speaker 1: social worker was murdered by an inmate who then you know,
Speaker 1: tried to hide her body and you know, was discovered
Speaker 1: very quickly, and you know, he got his time extended,
Speaker 1: and like he got the legal ramifications. But what you
Speaker 1: don't hear a lot about is that guy got fucked
Speaker 1: up in prison because he took out somebody that inmates
Speaker 1: see generally as an advocate. You know, it's a neutral party, true,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a neutral party.
Speaker 2: And I found that on the outside as well, you know,
Speaker 2: working with people post incarceration back in the community. I'm
Speaker 2: not exaggerating when I say, like I have seen them
Speaker 2: be incredibly protective of staff at the clinic in a
Speaker 2: way that was almost like, whoa, you don't need to
Speaker 2: go back to prison for me, right, Like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in that position, Yeah, yeah, did you No,
Speaker 1: It's fine.
Speaker 2: We had had we had a receptionist at my clinic
Speaker 2: that you know, probably told someone they needed to sign
Speaker 2: in when they didn't sign in or something, and she
Speaker 2: went out to her car and she had left her
Speaker 2: window rolled down a little bit and somebody had dumped
Speaker 2: like an ash tray in it.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So the guys in the group, when they found out
Speaker 2: that someone did that, and we assumed that it was
Speaker 2: probably someone from the clinic, they were like, who is it.
Speaker 2: We'll find them and we were like, whoa.
Speaker 1: You know, I mean there's a dynamic. I mean that
Speaker 1: that in itself that sort of relaxed inability to mitigate
Speaker 1: or regulate their emotionality. I mean we can say like, oh,
Speaker 1: they feel protective, but it's also like that disinhibition is
Speaker 1: part of probably what's why they ended up getting in trouble. Right, So,
Speaker 1: you know, Annabelle went on, I mean, I'm just going
Speaker 1: to just go back to one point that she made about,
Speaker 1: you know, a person who unlived. I should use that
Speaker 1: term unlive to forensic psychiatrists too at testified against him.
Speaker 1: You know that certainly, thankfully, is a rare occurrence. But
Speaker 1: I would also say that there would be no difference
Speaker 1: between that forensic psychiatrist and any other paid professional that
Speaker 1: comes upon the stand and testifies. Like there are judges,
Speaker 1: you know, it's not really well, not really talked about,
Speaker 1: but through across the country, many retired judges that do
Speaker 1: high profile criminal cases actually move, They move far away
Speaker 1: from the areas where they practiced as soon as they retired,
Speaker 1: and they, you know, because they don't want to be
Speaker 1: in the vicinity of the people that they helped put
Speaker 1: behind bars. So those things happen, thankfully, it's very rare.
Speaker 1: I think it's an amazing career. It's not for everybody,
Speaker 1: but you know, even as a forensic psych we've talked
Speaker 1: about this in episodes where you may if you are
Speaker 1: an employee of the state or the county and you're
Speaker 1: working in a correctional setting, your client is actually your employer,
Speaker 1: like so there's actually limited there's limited confidentiality in a
Speaker 1: setting like that. So the person you're talking to is
Speaker 1: very well aware of that and if you explain it well, like, hey,
Speaker 1: I want this to be a space for you, but
Speaker 1: you understand my role, right, My role here is to
Speaker 1: understand what's making you tick. And there are some people
Speaker 1: that are cold, and I don't want a victim blame
Speaker 1: at all. But like you know, you also need to
Speaker 1: have a bearing that is somewhat neutral, even if you're
Speaker 1: talking about things that are way over on one side
Speaker 1: of the scale. If you present it neutrallly, there's less
Speaker 1: likely that you will be in danger.
Speaker 2: To just speak on working out in the community. Let's
Speaker 2: say you work for a company, a clinic, a parole office,
Speaker 2: you know something like that. Obviously, if you work at
Speaker 2: like a parole office or affiliated with a government agency
Speaker 2: where there's law enforcement around, it's going to be by
Speaker 2: nature a more safe place, right they know to be
Speaker 2: on their best behavior there. There's people that can step
Speaker 2: in in a clinic setting, they know that there's a
Speaker 2: possibility that like a parole agent could step in at
Speaker 2: any time. So there's a little bit of that sort
Speaker 2: of fear there, but it's it is really the responsibility
Speaker 2: of the clinic and the staff to make good decisions
Speaker 2: right where you don't have somebody running a group by
Speaker 2: themselves when there's nobody else in the clinic, or that
Speaker 2: there's just one or two women closing up at night
Speaker 2: after that group, let's out at seven o'clock at night
Speaker 2: and it's dark, and the higher risk offenders. The higher
Speaker 2: risk groups or the more violent or contact offense oriented
Speaker 2: people are seen during the day, right when there's lot
Speaker 2: of people around. There's just ways that clinics put those
Speaker 2: practices into motion, but it's it should be a constant conversation.
Speaker 2: There are moments I've talked about moments where I've had
Speaker 2: a client like act out in a group, throw something
Speaker 2: across the room, stare daggers at me, and I've had
Speaker 2: to tell him I've had to kick him out, And
Speaker 2: then looking back on it, I'm like, oh, it's just
Speaker 2: me and my receptionist, who's the sweetest, most docile, adorable
Speaker 2: person in the world.
Speaker 10: But it was.
Speaker 2: Immediately me leaving the group, locking the door behind him,
Speaker 2: calling his parle agent, and then you know, going about
Speaker 2: that the rest of that night. But I also had
Speaker 2: a group of people that were very, very low risk,
Speaker 2: majority elderly. Like there's just a ton of factors you
Speaker 2: have to take into consideration. But if you're ever feeling
Speaker 2: in your stomach, in your gut, like I don't want
Speaker 2: to be left alone with this person, I don't want
Speaker 2: to I don't think this is a good idea to
Speaker 2: have this group at a certain time. Talk to your supervision,
Speaker 2: make that known and they should be able to work
Speaker 2: in you know, making you comfortable and making sure safety
Speaker 2: is absolutely number one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, great, great advice. Another one of our listeners, to
Speaker 1: Girl nineteen ninety nine asks what books or other media
Speaker 1: do you have for a girl trying to overcome a
Speaker 1: toxic parent or mother. So, first of all, as overused
Speaker 1: as a term as this is, I really want to
Speaker 1: hold space for anyone who's in this position. Just know
Speaker 1: that I am no as a clinician that I've seen
Speaker 1: this so often and in ways that make me get
Speaker 1: a perspective on my own upbringing that I'm like, I
Speaker 1: am much more grateful for my upbringing at this stage
Speaker 1: of my life than I ever have been. And I
Speaker 1: you know, I hear what you're saying, So you know
Speaker 1: the one. There are a couple of books that I
Speaker 1: highly highly recommend. You can get them used on. You
Speaker 1: can rent a lot of them from your local library
Speaker 1: digitally and that goes right to your kindle lap. But
Speaker 1: the go to is Adult Children of the Emotionally Immature.
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons I like it is because
Speaker 1: it really doesn't even in the title, it doesn't center
Speaker 1: in on narcissism so much is like a strict diagnosis,
Speaker 1: but it gives you know, because we don't want to
Speaker 1: over diagnose everybody. But you know, you can have traits
Speaker 1: and be completely self centered and just be, you know,
Speaker 1: a jackass. Right, So adult children are the emotionally immature.
Speaker 1: It's also not an easy read because some of what
Speaker 1: the author does is point out, hey, you have to
Speaker 1: be careful because no matter what where you are right
Speaker 1: now and what you're struggling with, you may be more
Speaker 1: likely to be acting out to your loved ones in
Speaker 1: the way that you were taught to. And that's that
Speaker 1: hasn't stuck very well with clients at time, but I
Speaker 1: do think that there's valuable stuff in it. Another great
Speaker 1: one is Will I Ever Be Good Enough? And then
Speaker 1: another one that I find really really really good is
Speaker 1: Children of the Self Absorbed. Oh okay, I think it's
Speaker 1: really great. And then there's also this fantastic grand Dame
Speaker 1: of toxic malignant Narcissism. Not that she is, but she's
Speaker 1: an incredible writer is psychology at Yeah, psychologist doctor Eleanor Green.
Speaker 1: She's got several books out that she's like the go to,
Speaker 1: And I really have such admiration for her, and she
Speaker 1: writes many many answers on Quora about surviving narcissism. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that you're asking a very timely question,
Speaker 1: you know, not like I was saying, not all parents,
Speaker 1: not all toxic parents are narcissists. You know, sometimes an
Speaker 1: asshole is just an asshole. But we're living in very
Speaker 1: interesting times and I want to throw something out into
Speaker 1: our listeners about this type of phenomenon, if I'm using
Speaker 1: the term correctly for this context, is that we're living
Speaker 1: in a time where they're I mean, yes, there's some
Speaker 1: really awful things going on in the world, but as
Speaker 1: far as people in Western culture starting to own their
Speaker 1: shit and looking at what's not working and taking a
Speaker 1: mirror to themselves and then also going, wait, this is
Speaker 1: not okay. These behaviors that I've been putting up with
Speaker 1: for twenty five years from toxic parents are not all right.
Speaker 1: And they're turning to the parents and they're drawing appropriate boundaries,
Speaker 1: and it's upturning society. Like there are a lot of
Speaker 1: boomers right now that refuse to take ownership of their
Speaker 1: poor parenting skills. And you know, I got a harsh
Speaker 1: lesson for some of our not maybe not our listeners,
Speaker 1: but our listeners parients. It's like, you need to clean
Speaker 1: your shit up or you're going to be alone in
Speaker 1: your old age because people are coming to the realization,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't owe anything to anyone that has
Speaker 1: treated you like crap.
Speaker 6: You just don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So take a look at those read doctor eleanor Green.
Speaker 1: I think they're really enlightening.
Speaker 2: YEP. I don't have anything to add to that. Scott's
Speaker 2: more expert in that area than I am. I do
Speaker 2: want to answer Amy's questions. She threw into the chat
Speaker 2: way back when we started, nearly two hours ago. She
Speaker 2: was just wondering how we ever got connected with Bob
Speaker 2: Bruff on Truth and Justice. I'm pretty sure it was
Speaker 2: during COVID he reached out to Tim and Lance because
Speaker 2: remember he was doing that thing where he had just
Speaker 2: podcasters on talking about a specific case. So I think
Speaker 2: you went on first and you talked about Scott Peterson,
Speaker 2: and then he had me on and I ended up
Speaker 2: talking about the is it Jonathan Orr the firefighter arsonist
Speaker 2: because Bob Ruff's former fire captain, and I was like,
Speaker 2: this is the case I'm bringing you buddy. Then we
Speaker 2: went on to obviously you know guest a couple times
Speaker 2: on Truth and Justice on a season and have done
Speaker 2: some live stuff together. And also one of our good friends.
Speaker 2: So okay, So Trh Cabana three, longtime listener from Instagram said,
Speaker 2: have either of you had a client patient discussed the podcast.
Speaker 8: With you in therapy?
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, dare you try and trick
Speaker 2: us into breaking confidentiality.
Speaker 1: After all?
Speaker 2: Okay, but you know, I think this dance. When I
Speaker 2: read this, I was like, okay, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: confirm or deny this. Am My thinking behind that is
Speaker 2: I invite our listeners to think, like, how would you
Speaker 2: feel if you listened to the show you're also a
Speaker 2: client of ours, and then now we're answering this question, right,
Speaker 2: So what I'm going to do is say how I
Speaker 2: would handle that, which is interesting because you sometimes we
Speaker 2: have to talk about like what if we run into
Speaker 2: each other in person outside of therapy with anyone. I
Speaker 2: talk about it all the time at work because I
Speaker 2: see people in many different capacities, not just a therapeutic
Speaker 2: setting at my job. But in this case, I would say,
Speaker 2: if you listen to the podcast, or if you've discovered
Speaker 2: the podcast, because remember we were talking about like is
Speaker 2: it at the call to google your clients, They're definitely
Speaker 2: going to google you. I will fully admit, like, I've
Speaker 2: definitely had people go, oh yeah, I googled you before
Speaker 2: I came in here, whether or not you know it's
Speaker 2: podcast related. But I would say, look, if you choose
Speaker 2: to continue to work with me as your therapist and
Speaker 2: continue to listen to the podcast, you're going to get
Speaker 2: to know me on a different level than you would
Speaker 2: some other therapist. Like you're probably going to learn things
Speaker 2: about me personally, some views my family, and that's your choice,
Speaker 2: and I can't choose that for you. I just need
Speaker 2: to know you're okay with it, and if anything ever
Speaker 2: comes up that you're uncomfortable with, let's talk about it.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about it. But you know, also, it's we're
Speaker 2: here for whatever you're coming into this office with to
Speaker 2: work on. So I don't know anything different or wait,
Speaker 2: I don't know what you want to add to that.
Speaker 1: The only thing that I would add is like, it's
Speaker 1: it's happened a couple of times, and look, I I
Speaker 1: don't think I mean I've I've had a therapist myself
Speaker 1: that was like is really well regarded as like one
Speaker 1: of the best in town, and like, I'm a good therapist,
Speaker 1: and I would say I'm even like an exceptional therapist
Speaker 1: for some people. For very specific I think I always
Speaker 1: say when people come in the room, plete you got
Speaker 1: a shop, don't just stick with me, look at other profiles.
Speaker 1: Talk to people. You need to find the thing that
Speaker 1: vibes with you. But my very small private practice is
Speaker 1: made up of people that feel a connection and feel safe.
Speaker 1: And if they found me through the podcast or they
Speaker 1: just happened to notice it, that quickly takes a back
Speaker 1: seat to the work. That's awesome, you know, because we
Speaker 1: dive in and it's about like, you know, you're also
Speaker 1: paying me money you like, and that that's very big
Speaker 1: for me. It's like, this is a this is a service.
Speaker 1: It's a service, and it's a relationship, and I want
Speaker 1: you to get everything out of it that you're paying for.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: Nick from Tennis, last question, Yeah, where do you see
Speaker 1: la not so confidential in the next year. What about
Speaker 1: the next five years?
Speaker 2: The big question.
Speaker 1: I've got some we we both had some ideas that
Speaker 1: have emerged over the past few months that would be really,
Speaker 1: really awesome if they took this action, took our project
Speaker 1: to a different level. That would be what would afford
Speaker 1: us a little bit more ease than what we're doing.
Speaker 1: And that may happen, it may not. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: manifest it, you know, lighting candles, putting on essential oils.
Speaker 1: We'll see you know what you what about you? Yeah?
Speaker 2: No, Weirdly, I think like for one of the first
Speaker 2: times in our podcast history, I just don't really know.
Speaker 2: And I'm not trying to think too hard about it either.
Speaker 2: You know, as we have outlined kind of our looking
Speaker 2: back and chatting with our friends, it seems like we've
Speaker 2: like always had a trajectory, We've always had a focus
Speaker 2: or like this is the next thing, the next level
Speaker 2: to do, and by this time, I mean we've checked
Speaker 2: a lot of those off. So I kind of love
Speaker 2: that we're in a like go with the flow state.
Speaker 2: As we've mentioned recently, like just professional responsibilities have changed,
Speaker 2: you know, diversifying ourselves a little bit with some other
Speaker 2: things that we like to do. I'm not in the
Speaker 2: point where I'm like I need to make this podcast
Speaker 2: bigger than ever right, Like I said, already, I love
Speaker 2: our audience, who they are, what they are, what it is.
Speaker 2: I just want to like talk with you take care
Speaker 2: of our audience. Thank you so much, Catherine, she said
Speaker 2: in the chat, like how she loves how much we
Speaker 2: do interact and really like build a community with our audience.
Speaker 2: So I think that's wonderful. So I feel like that
Speaker 2: on one hand. And then like a week or two ago,
Speaker 2: I was talking to this true crime podcaster about a
Speaker 2: totally different project that had nothing to do with us,
Speaker 2: and he was like, have you guys ever considered a
Speaker 2: TV adaptation, which yeah, I mean we've totally been down
Speaker 2: that road. But I'm like, if something if you can
Speaker 2: make magic happen where this is adaptable, we're listening, but
Speaker 2: we still haven't really heard anything that has made us go, yeah,
Speaker 2: that'd be amazing.
Speaker 1: So well, that's right. People people don't also don't follow through,
Speaker 1: but that's the nature of Hollywood. It's like, yeah, we
Speaker 1: also tell them like, okay, here the parameters. We're not retired,
Speaker 1: so we would love to do your project if you
Speaker 1: can hit these three things. And I think that that
Speaker 1: comes to a hard stop for some people, but that's Okay,
Speaker 1: you know, we'll see we've you know, we've both inhabited
Speaker 1: this particular space for this project while we've both been
Speaker 1: working multiple jobs and multiple projects, and you know, we're
Speaker 1: taking time to rebalance our lives, which I think is good.
Speaker 1: And yeah, the last few months have made a big difference.
Speaker 1: I made a big shift in work, which is a
Speaker 1: huge adjustment and a huge identity shift that I was
Speaker 1: not expecting. All good, but like giving birth is wonderful,
Speaker 1: but it's like painful, right, I mean, I'm assuming because
Speaker 1: I haven't I don't know.
Speaker 2: I had an epidural, So nobody has to be a
Speaker 2: hero in my eyes.
Speaker 1: Okay, but are our top three recent crime stories?
Speaker 2: Now, let's just wrap this up. We're almost two hours in.
Speaker 2: We just really wanted to end this with. I mean,
Speaker 2: we've talked about, you know, kind of what's in the future,
Speaker 2: and I'm sorry, it's a big I don't know. I
Speaker 2: will say, mark your calendars if you're in LA, We're
Speaker 2: going to do a meetup Friday, April eleventh, probably in
Speaker 2: downtown LA in the arts district. I just have to
Speaker 2: reach out to the venue I'm have in my head
Speaker 2: where it will be. But I just need to confirm.
Speaker 2: So if you guys are around, it's really just going
Speaker 2: to be a casual meetup. If we turn it into
Speaker 2: something else, if maybe we can get a little bit
Speaker 2: more tucked away space to do something a little bit
Speaker 2: more I don't know, performative live. We'll we'll figure that
Speaker 2: out later, but we're not setting that expectation yet. So
Speaker 2: that is I mean kind of for future plans other
Speaker 2: than just rolling out our episodes. But we also wanted
Speaker 2: to take the time just to think our amazing audience.
Speaker 1: You know, in thanking all of you, the people who
Speaker 1: just found us, however you found us that then went
Speaker 1: on to explore their journey on a career path like
Speaker 1: Shiloh when I took ye that I say it over it.
Speaker 1: I'm sure people are sick of hearing it. It just
Speaker 1: it brings me to tears. It brings me to tears.
Speaker 1: That like that you something that we have just giggled
Speaker 1: and love to produce, like, has inspired people or given
Speaker 1: people an idea to take their career in that direction
Speaker 1: and they're completely rocking it. I think that's wonderful. And
Speaker 1: then there's also people who have shared incredibly personal moments
Speaker 1: with us. Via email because an episode that we recorded
Speaker 1: resonated so intimately and so profoundly with them and that
Speaker 1: we had a positive impact. I so many of those
Speaker 1: are intensely personal. You know, I clearly can't share them
Speaker 1: and it wouldn't be right, but please know again we
Speaker 1: are both so humbled and honored to receive those. And
Speaker 1: you know, Shiloh, I shared the one with you that
Speaker 1: we got this week that literally made me tear up.
Speaker 1: I was just, oh my gosh, so moved by it
Speaker 1: by a recent episode. So all of you, thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you for letting us in. That's yeah, wonderful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely kind of said it better. Also, just what
Speaker 2: we've already mentioned, just the community that it's created, and
Speaker 2: you know, I know we joke of like we've seen
Speaker 2: Bridget through two babies, like literally sent her la not
Speaker 2: so confidential onesie for her child, and just year after year,
Speaker 2: right seeing people on the you know, the the live
Speaker 2: stuff like this, the watch parties like where we're all
Speaker 2: feel like we're kind of sitting there eating popcorn, having
Speaker 2: a glass of wine, watching a movie together, or the
Speaker 2: holiday parties or live I mean, we do not have
Speaker 2: voices at the end of the day, when we go
Speaker 2: to a festival because we're just like in it and
Speaker 2: talking to you guys about everything and just gushing about
Speaker 2: this weird shit that we all like to talk about,
Speaker 2: which is the coolest. So thank you guys so much.
Speaker 2: I think we want to do one last shout out
Speaker 2: obviously to two Oh okay, okay, I I didn't know.
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't put it on the notes. But
Speaker 1: first of all, it goes without saying, I like this
Speaker 1: one really does make me tear up. Is our dear
Speaker 1: friend and producer, you know, and sweetener and editor. Jason
Speaker 1: has taken us to a completely different level with his skills,
Speaker 1: Like it's just there. I've never expected to have a colleague,
Speaker 1: a creative producer that learned our voice in the process
Speaker 1: of producing this and managed to take our gobbledegook from
Speaker 1: late night sessions when we're so exhausted, ye and red
Speaker 1: eyed and raw voiced, and he has just turned it
Speaker 1: into a product. There are times where we've gone through
Speaker 1: something it's ten o'clock at night and Shila and I
Speaker 1: both go, Jason, I'm so sorry, that.
Speaker 2: Makes no sense, like apologizing to each other.
Speaker 1: Man have that last paragraph and he will come in
Speaker 1: and he's edited into something that makes so much coherent sense.
Speaker 1: It's wonderful. So thank you, Jason, thank you for being
Speaker 1: our friend, thank you for being our colleague. He's a
Speaker 1: wonderful content producer himself. And last, but not least, Abby Blackbird. Abby.
Speaker 1: Abby is just like the younger generation because she's both
Speaker 1: solidly outside my generation and Shilah's generation and has given
Speaker 1: us so much information on like hey, and she's been
Speaker 1: so kind about like, hey, you know you really should
Speaker 1: do this, like this is how other shows do it,
Speaker 1: and like we just would have never known, we would
Speaker 1: never really known how to actually work a Patreon. It
Speaker 1: will be on this board, you know, so, Abby, thank
Speaker 1: you for being just an intrinsic and integral part of
Speaker 1: this content creation and for you know, like.
Speaker 2: We said, emails that we get, but for letting us
Speaker 2: into your life. And you know you posted something recently, Abby,
Speaker 2: a little video of you a few years ago and
Speaker 2: then now and we've known you through a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff and we love you and we're so proud of you,
Speaker 2: and absolutely thank you for helping out your old aunt
Speaker 2: and uncle. Yeah, and for going out and doing some
Speaker 2: recognissance for us. Thank you for that too. I'll keep
Speaker 2: that between us, but that's very sweet. Thank you for
Speaker 2: including her. Scott. Okay, you guys, we could be here
Speaker 2: all for goodnight and you don't want to do that.
Speaker 2: But thank you for two hundred plus plus plus plus
Speaker 2: plus plus episodes for sure, but really just finally hitting
Speaker 2: that number with something we had to stop and savor.
Speaker 2: And thank you Scott for doing this with me all
Speaker 2: this time.
Speaker 1: Words Canni, I know, I know, I know whatever.
Speaker 2: I'll just cut it off there, all right, We'll see
Speaker 2: you next time on La Not So Confidential.
Speaker 6: Hi, guys, Okay, hang on, wait a minute.
Speaker 3: Since I'm the editor, I get to put something in
Speaker 3: here too, because I couldn't make the live the other night.
Speaker 6: Shoutout, Scott. I don't know how.
Speaker 3: Many of the two hundred episodes I have edited for you.
Speaker 3: I think it's been more than a prettyure's been more
Speaker 3: than one hundred. I kind of tried to look back
Speaker 3: and see where it started, couldn't really pinpoint it, but
Speaker 3: I want you to know that it's been one of
Speaker 3: the best experiences of my life. The two of you
Speaker 3: are kind, compassionate, brilliant people, and you have been there
Speaker 3: with me through a lot of things, and you gave
Speaker 3: me a chance when I was really just starting out,
Speaker 3: and I've had such a wonderful time going on this
Speaker 3: journey with you. I admire you both so much. I
Speaker 3: love you both so much, and I am hopeful that
Speaker 3: we get two hundred more at least, but know that
Speaker 3: I love you. I'm proud of you. Congratulations. Two hundred
Speaker 3: episodes is extraordinary and it just goes to the people
Speaker 3: that you are, the resilience that you have, the knowledge
Speaker 3: that you share. And I'm very, very proud of you.
Speaker 6: So I love you.
Speaker 1: Guys.
Speaker 6: Talk to you soon or I'll text you. I'll be today.
Speaker 1: Bye.
Speaker 2: We sincerely thank you for spending some time with us today.
Speaker 2: La Not So Confidential is part of the Caral Space
Speaker 2: Media network. Each episode is hosted, produced, and written by
Speaker 2: doctor Scott and Doctor Shiloh. Our post production, editing and
Speaker 2: sweetening magic is handled by the multi talented Jason Usri
Speaker 2: of ear Cult Productions.
Speaker 1: Our theme music, entitled Cool Vibes Film Noir, is composed
Speaker 1: and performed by the talented Kevin McLoud. He graciously allows
Speaker 1: us to use his music via a Creative Commons attribution license.
Speaker 1: Please check out all of Kevin's amazing work on YouTube.
Speaker 2: All of the resources for each episode can be found
Speaker 2: on our website at La Dash not dash soo dash
Speaker 2: confidential dot com. You can find us on Instagram at
Speaker 2: La No soa podcast, on x at La No Soapop,
Speaker 2: and on Facebook at La not So Confidential. Media inquiries
Speaker 2: and bookings are scheduled at Alienist Entertainment at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Once a month, we go live on YouTube on Saturday afternoon,
Speaker 1: so pay attention to our social media announcements to join
Speaker 1: our interactive broadcast entitled Behind the Couch, where we interview
Speaker 1: guests on a number of psych criminal, justice and true
Speaker 1: crime topics.
Speaker 2: And lastly, we'd be honored if you joined our Patreon
Speaker 2: at Patreon dot com slash La not So Podcast. With
Speaker 2: a subscription, you get an ad free listening experience, additional
Speaker 2: content post interaction, and you'll be the first to know
Speaker 2: about upcoming live events, social gatherings, and super cool swag.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and join us next time on La
Speaker 1: Not So Confidential.