WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Big Food and Beyond.

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<v Speaker 2>With Cliff and Bobo.

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<v Speaker 1>These guys are you fav It's so like say subscribe

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<v Speaker 1>and raid it five starck s and me righteous on

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<v Speaker 1>yesterday and listening Watchie Lim always keep its watching.

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<v Speaker 2>And now your hosts Cliff Barrickman and James Bubo Fay,

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<v Speaker 2>Hey Bobs, how you doing man? Good good?

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<v Speaker 3>Gotta good night's sleep last night, or I should say

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<v Speaker 3>a good day's sleep todays. Decided to go to bit

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<v Speaker 3>to about Ultra five this morning.

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<v Speaker 2>But in the trailer, in the trailer, that's right, my friends,

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<v Speaker 2>all our listeners out there, Bobo is here in my home,

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<v Speaker 2>sitting not two feet from me, right now, next to me,

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<v Speaker 2>huddled around this microphone doing the podcast. Bobo said he

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<v Speaker 2>would be here at four o'clock today because we had

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<v Speaker 2>a podcast scheduled for five pm, and again overdoing it,

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<v Speaker 2>just going the extra mile. He shows up at four

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<v Speaker 2>am at the house, so he wasn't an hour early

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<v Speaker 2>for the podcast. He was thirteen hours early for the podcast,

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<v Speaker 2>which I think more than makes up for every other

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<v Speaker 2>time you were late to this podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm on the plus side. I can show up an

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<v Speaker 3>hour late for like a couple of weeks.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, So like every time you're a half hour late,

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<v Speaker 2>we just put that thirty minutes into a bucket or something,

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<v Speaker 2>and then he shows up thirteen hours early for the

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<v Speaker 2>next podcast, and that takes away all his debt. So

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<v Speaker 2>I think we're even now, Or do I owe you

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<v Speaker 2>or do you get to be late a few times now?

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<v Speaker 3>Well? You only it's because we let those guys sleep

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<v Speaker 3>in the trailer. Someone stayed one of the cushions on

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<v Speaker 3>the cop set, so I got to replace all the cushions.

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<v Speaker 3>It's match, so it's going to cost you a pretty

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<v Speaker 3>penny for that.

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<v Speaker 2>You'll be very surprised that. I really don't think anyone

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<v Speaker 2>has ever slept in there since you have last time,

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<v Speaker 2>So those stains are yours my friend Gerhart there, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think, so I don't know whil it's ever been

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<v Speaker 2>to the house. I don't think Ken stayed here, but

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<v Speaker 2>I don't. I don't think Lyle has I don't remember

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<v Speaker 2>Ken being in there, but he was alone, so I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know. Anyways, Yeah, that's another anyway. Ye, Bobo's right

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<v Speaker 2>here next to me. Rumor is the when Bobo leaves

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<v Speaker 2>after a few days or weeks or whenever that happens.

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<v Speaker 2>His trailer may not be here as well. So we

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<v Speaker 2>will see about that. Because like I don't know Bobo.

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<v Speaker 2>I talk to a lot of people about the podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, they come in the shop, they talk to me.

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<v Speaker 2>They always ask, so, is Bobo's trailer still in your barn?

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<v Speaker 2>They literally always ask that. So I think that the

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<v Speaker 2>trailers like we should make like maybe big gonna be

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<v Speaker 2>on shirts with the trailer in it or something.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a sweet trailer.

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<v Speaker 2>It is a sweet trailer. It is a sweet trailer, absolutely,

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<v Speaker 2>So the end of an era, possibly, we'll see. I'll

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<v Speaker 2>believe that. I'll believe it when I see it. Honestly,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll believe it when I don't see it in the

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<v Speaker 2>bar in the barn.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah close, putting in a pretty sweet Uh have a

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<v Speaker 3>full casting room now, I guess like you're building back

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<v Speaker 3>in there.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, that's right. We're gonna frame up the inside

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<v Speaker 2>of the outbuilding to some degree, have a place for

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<v Speaker 2>the cast to go. I have like a little laboratory.

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<v Speaker 2>I would say laboratory, but laboratory sounds so much cooler.

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<v Speaker 2>So the we're gonna go with that. So, yeah, we

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<v Speaker 2>will see man, we will see. But anyway, so it's

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<v Speaker 2>a pleasure to have Bobo in the house, as it

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<v Speaker 2>always is, and it's also a pleasure to have today's

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<v Speaker 2>guest with us.

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<v Speaker 3>I've bet waiting for this one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a little something for everybody to learn a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit from, so hopefully learn a lot. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 2>of course, since you're sitting right next to me, Bobo,

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's gonna be a fun Patreon. It's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>be a fun member episode that we're going to record

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<v Speaker 2>right after this as well. We have a lot to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about. I've been in the field a lot. There's

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<v Speaker 2>been a lot of empty days with nothing going on,

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<v Speaker 2>but a few really fantastic days and hopefully I can

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<v Speaker 2>take you up the hill and show you those sort

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<v Speaker 2>of things the next couple of days. Here, listeners, if

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<v Speaker 2>you're not a member and you want to be, well, actually,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're listening, you probably do want to be a member.

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<v Speaker 2>But what you want to do is you go to

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<v Speaker 2>the show that the link in the show notes below here.

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<v Speaker 2>Pratt Froyes puts our links next to the episode here.

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<v Speaker 2>But what you get if you be I'm a member

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<v Speaker 2>of Bigfoot and beyond is. You get this episode right

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<v Speaker 2>now with zero commercial breaks, because nobody likes commercials. No

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<v Speaker 2>one likes being sold stuff. But you also get an

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<v Speaker 2>extra hour of content every single week of Bobo and

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<v Speaker 2>I and usually Matt Preuit's right there with us too,

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<v Speaker 2>because it's kind of a fun conversation with another voice

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<v Speaker 2>added there. So if you are interested, yeah, very well

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<v Speaker 2>educated voice. Matt, You're a very very well educated person.

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<v Speaker 2>So congratulations on that. We appreciate your help, not only

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<v Speaker 2>in editing the stupid things Bobo and I say out,

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<v Speaker 2>but also the additions. I bet, I bet Matt edits

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<v Speaker 2>a lot less of himself. He does us at all. No,

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<v Speaker 2>you wouldn't have to. He says it perfect the first time.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, Well, anyway, you get the gess Man, If

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<v Speaker 2>you want to hear more from Matt Pruit and Me

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<v Speaker 2>and Bobo here, you can be a member. You can

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<v Speaker 2>extra hour of content pretty much every single week. Sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>it's forty five minutes, but it's usually at least an hour,

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes an hour and a half. We kind of we

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<v Speaker 2>give you everything we can. You also get an occasional

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<v Speaker 2>video or cool pictures and all that other stuff that

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<v Speaker 2>you can find on the Patreon of our members. So

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. It's five bucks a month. It seems

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<v Speaker 2>pretty cheap to me. I mean, that's a beer without

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<v Speaker 2>a tip when you think about it. And if you

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<v Speaker 2>pay five bucks a month you get four hours of

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<v Speaker 2>content plus often pictures and occasional video and no commercials.

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<v Speaker 2>Seems worth it to me. I mean, and mind you,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't listen to any podcasts, so I'm not actually

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<v Speaker 2>a member. But Bobo who does listen to a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of podcasts. Bobo's actually a member of his own po podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Just so you can listen to the final product without

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<v Speaker 2>a commercial, right.

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<v Speaker 3>I still listen to the commercials too.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you listen to the commercials too?

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<v Speaker 3>Why to see what they think of me?

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<v Speaker 2>The commercials. Yeah, commercials don't think anything of you.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh that's algorithm?

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<v Speaker 4>What you say?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that kind of thing? What kind of commercials do

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<v Speaker 2>you get?

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<v Speaker 3>Weird ones? I bet you told me about that. I

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<v Speaker 3>was like, yeah, these advertisers are think are really strange

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<v Speaker 3>to listen to this podcast. I was like, no, it's

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<v Speaker 3>just you.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm like.

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<v Speaker 2>That's great.

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<v Speaker 3>A lot of counseling ones.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, fantastic. Well, anyway, yeah, if you want to hear

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<v Speaker 2>more of this, become a member click that link in

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<v Speaker 2>the show notes below, or you can go to Bigfoot

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<v Speaker 2>and Beyond podcasts dot com and then hit that membership button.

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<v Speaker 2>That'll tell you more than you need to know. All right,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty excited about the guests today. I met the guest.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know how I got to ask him. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't even know how long. I've known him for, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>six months or more, maybe a year. I have no idea,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think that we all have a lot to

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<v Speaker 2>learn from this gentleman. So, without much else to say,

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<v Speaker 2>which is rare for me, why don't we bring our

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<v Speaker 2>guests on. This is David Zigan. He is a cop,

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<v Speaker 2>he is an expert in ballistics. He's an expert in

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<v Speaker 2>dramatic glyphics, which is directly related to our field. And

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<v Speaker 2>he also has kind of a fledgling YouTube channel doing

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<v Speaker 2>his best to teach the bigfoot community about ways to

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<v Speaker 2>gather evidence and just how to do things right frankly,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's called Bigfoot Forensics on YouTube. So David, thank

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<v Speaker 2>you very much for coming on Bigfoot and Beyond with

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<v Speaker 2>these nerds here whoa sorry bobs.

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<v Speaker 4>A lot of don't listen in well, I really appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 2>So, David, first of all, how long have I known you? What? What

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<v Speaker 2>six months?

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<v Speaker 4>A year?

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<v Speaker 3>Is that?

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<v Speaker 2>Is that more or less correct?

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<v Speaker 4>I think it's somewhere around six months. I think you're

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<v Speaker 4>right about that.

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<v Speaker 2>Time is very elastic in my old age.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, I'm feeling that I'm old too.

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<v Speaker 2>Now from my side of the fence, David reached out

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<v Speaker 2>to me at the very beginning, because I think more

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<v Speaker 2>or less I'm paraphrasing. This isn't a direct quote, but

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<v Speaker 2>you said, I'm not so sure soundsquatches are real, but

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<v Speaker 2>I think they might be, and I'm hoping that you'll

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<v Speaker 2>give me something that convinces me. Was that basically the

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<v Speaker 2>intent when you first reached out to me.

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<v Speaker 4>I think that was really close. What initially transpired was

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<v Speaker 4>I was looking for dermatoglyphics and looking for dermal ridges,

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<v Speaker 4>anything that I could find that had to do with Bigfoot,

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<v Speaker 4>and I had been reaching out to a lot of

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<v Speaker 4>people trying to get that information and nobody was really responding.

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<v Speaker 4>But you responded, and you initially asked me what I

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<v Speaker 4>was planning on doing with it, and what were my

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<v Speaker 4>plans for it? And Basically what happened was you were

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<v Speaker 4>nice enough to respond, and what I was hoping to

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<v Speaker 4>do was start doing some real research on the subject.

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<v Speaker 4>And I was hoping that along the way something would

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<v Speaker 4>come across my desk that I couldn't disprove, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>something that because I can't be out in the field

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<v Speaker 4>like you guys, but I am in the lab a lot,

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<v Speaker 4>and if I can have something come across my desk

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<v Speaker 4>that makes me just go wow, I can't explain this.

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<v Speaker 4>That's what I would ultimately love to have, but it's

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<v Speaker 4>kind of transformed into something else since then.

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<v Speaker 2>No, Now I got to ask, you're a lab kind

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<v Speaker 2>of character. You said just said that you're not out

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<v Speaker 2>in the field very much. I know you have been,

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<v Speaker 2>and we'll get to that in a little while. But

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<v Speaker 2>what sort of items, what sort of evidence, and what

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<v Speaker 2>sort of things in general do you do? You look

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<v Speaker 2>at that because your testimony puts people in jail, So

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<v Speaker 2>what sort of things do you specialize in and what

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<v Speaker 2>did you think you can bring to the bigfoot field.

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<v Speaker 4>So originally I start off as a police I started

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<v Speaker 4>off as a police officer, just like everyone else. I

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<v Speaker 4>spent a long time on the street on the road,

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<v Speaker 4>I primarily worked night shifts. I ended up moving into

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<v Speaker 4>being a detective, where I ended up being a polygraph

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<v Speaker 4>examiner for a number of years, but that was just

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<v Speaker 4>kind of like alongside my regular detective duties. Then I

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<v Speaker 4>came to my current agency that I'm at now, and

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<v Speaker 4>I moved into what they call it, it's crimes against persons,

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<v Speaker 4>but it sounds less than what it is. It's major crimes.

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<v Speaker 4>It's armed robberies, homicides, things like that. And after a

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<v Speaker 4>while I got kind of burnt out on that a

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<v Speaker 4>little bit, and I was able to move into a

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<v Speaker 4>position within the CSI unit, and I found my home immediately.

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<v Speaker 4>I couldn't believe that they would pay me to study

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<v Speaker 4>to do these kinds of things, and now that's all

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<v Speaker 4>I do, even in my spare time, so much so

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<v Speaker 4>that now I'm creating a channel trying to help teach

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<v Speaker 4>about it. But during the initial phases, I got to

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<v Speaker 4>go to the National Forensic Academy sometimes called the Body

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<v Speaker 4>Farm in Oakridge, Tennessee.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, there's some really wonderful videos out of there,

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<v Speaker 2>I might say.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So I got to a ten there and a

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<v Speaker 4>little later on, right before COVID. I got to be

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<v Speaker 4>an adjunct instructor where I got to go up and

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<v Speaker 4>help teach about fingerprints and fingerprint processing, and I basically

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<v Speaker 4>have just really embraced the fingerprint and the dermal ridge realm,

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<v Speaker 4>and I've become an expert witness in my field. I

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<v Speaker 4>help teach fingerprints, I actually verify fingerprints for a lot

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<v Speaker 4>of the surrounding agencies and basically mentor some of them.

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<v Speaker 4>So I am a certified latent fingerprint examiner, certified crime

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<v Speaker 4>scene tech along with being trained in shooting, incident reconstruction,

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<v Speaker 4>and blood state and pattern analysis. I was hoping that

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<v Speaker 4>after looking at different pieces of evidence online that I

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<v Speaker 4>could help kind of bring some proper ways to collect that.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, it all started when I was looking at

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<v Speaker 4>Bigfoot impressions and I was looking for those dermal ridges,

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<v Speaker 4>looking for the inside of those prints, but I kept

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<v Speaker 4>finding out that they were either taken improperly, too far away,

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<v Speaker 4>no scale. And I started thinking, what if I'm looking

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<v Speaker 4>at a true life Bigfoot footprint right now? But I

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<v Speaker 4>have to just swipe away and keep looking because there's

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<v Speaker 4>nothing I can do about that. And then you know

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<v Speaker 4>the next step was, well, maybe I could help teach

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<v Speaker 4>this and shed some light on how to document this

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<v Speaker 4>properly in case somedays somebody actually does do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because you teach cops on a regular basis how

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<v Speaker 2>to do their jobs right in your areas of expertise,

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<v Speaker 2>why not the Bigfoot community because it is sorely needed.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know everything, but not even close, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>always looking for some guidance how to do things properly

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<v Speaker 2>because we're just kind of in the darken a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of ways. You know. We can look online at various

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<v Speaker 2>websites or buy various books, but there's nothing like having

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<v Speaker 2>a teacher or a mentor right there.

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<v Speaker 4>And you've been kind of that to me since I

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<v Speaker 4>started this. I know, I've tried to get in touch

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<v Speaker 4>with you a couple of times about some frustrations I've had.

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<v Speaker 4>You've fought me down. Things move at a different pace

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<v Speaker 4>in different worlds, and people have different ideas, and I've

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<v Speaker 4>been appreciative, of course.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I'm happy to help, of course. And then

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know how many times you tried to contact

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<v Speaker 2>me before I got back, because I'm always hesitant to

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<v Speaker 2>give too much too soon, because there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>people out in the big Foot community that use whatever

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<v Speaker 2>they can get for their own agendas and that sort

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<v Speaker 2>of thing. So I'm very pleased that I took a

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<v Speaker 2>chance on you, though, because I think the first one

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<v Speaker 2>of the first things I did was I gave you

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<v Speaker 2>photographs of one of the casts. I don't remember which

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<v Speaker 2>one it was, maybe as a handprint from Missouri, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>it was something else. Oh no, no, it was the

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<v Speaker 2>It was the Corn Creek cast from the Tom Shay

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<v Speaker 2>collection Corn Creek.

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<v Speaker 4>And you did send me the palm I mean or

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<v Speaker 4>the hand.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, and now and both of those cases

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<v Speaker 2>there are some concerns whether those were introduced dramaticallypics or

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<v Speaker 2>they were there on the foot or the hand in

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<v Speaker 2>each case. But can you speak to the difference between

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<v Speaker 2>from your from the from your side, you know, from

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<v Speaker 2>from analyzing photographs and then analyzing the cast itself. Tell

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<v Speaker 2>us about the differences between those two when you're presented

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<v Speaker 2>with evidence, our photographs enough or do you need the cast?

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<v Speaker 2>You know where I'm going with this.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes, So I remember very clearly, especially on the hand one,

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<v Speaker 4>because you ended up making a cast for that or

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<v Speaker 4>a reproduction and sending it to me because I initially

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<v Speaker 4>worked off the photographs and you kept telling me, I

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<v Speaker 4>think there's something that you're not seeing, and you were.

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<v Speaker 4>You were absolutely right, and I wasn't aware that I

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<v Speaker 4>wasn't seeing it properly. And part of it was because

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<v Speaker 4>in my world when we do crime scene reconstructions, or

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<v Speaker 4>my partner at my agency, we BO, we worked with

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<v Speaker 4>some prosecutors in our county where we helped look at

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<v Speaker 4>some crime scenes to see if they were documented correctly,

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<v Speaker 4>so to say, and we will basically do reconstructions from

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<v Speaker 4>the photographs and the crime scene reports. So it wasn't

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<v Speaker 4>anything new to be working from the photographs. But what

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<v Speaker 4>I didn't take into account was being able to hold

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<v Speaker 4>it and manipulate it in my hands. You know. I'm

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<v Speaker 4>used to working with photographs that are showing rooms where

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<v Speaker 4>we can see things differently, but being able to hold

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<v Speaker 4>that cast change my whole perspective once I got it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I guess it jumps from two D to three

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<v Speaker 3>D when you can hold it, so that's a lot

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<v Speaker 3>more info.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And I think if you know, especially with the

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<v Speaker 4>three D technology that's going on now, that would be

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<v Speaker 4>beneficial in sending things just to you know, like working

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<v Speaker 4>from photographs would be great, and then the three D

315
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<v Speaker 4>model so you could spin it around and kind of

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00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:11.879
<v Speaker 4>just kind of see what you were originally talking about,

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00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:15.200
<v Speaker 4>would be fantastic as well. That might cut back on

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<v Speaker 4>the reproductions of casts and postage.

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<v Speaker 2>Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll be right back after these messages. So right now,

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<v Speaker 2>since we have you know, a number of years listening

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<v Speaker 2>to us, and I'd say probably the majority of them

323
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<v Speaker 2>are considered themselves bigfooters or researchers in some sort of way,

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<v Speaker 2>what are some of the things that we can look

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<v Speaker 2>to do as far as dramatic glyphics go on casts?

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<v Speaker 2>Are there any things that, like, say, for example, there's

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<v Speaker 2>a footprint in the ground in the mud, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>a fine mud, maybe some silts, and there's a chance

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<v Speaker 2>that we can maybe record some dramatic glyphics. What would

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<v Speaker 2>you recommend we do, as feel researchers looking at a

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<v Speaker 2>beautiful cast in the ground to preserve those dramaticglyphics in

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<v Speaker 2>any way possible. And I'm thinking, like I'm looking at

333
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<v Speaker 2>the cast, I haven't even thought about casting it yet.

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<v Speaker 2>What are the steps that we should do to make

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<v Speaker 2>sure we don't lose any information out of that footprint

336
00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:20.639
<v Speaker 2>if it has a possibility of dramaticlypics.

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00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:25.480
<v Speaker 4>Okay, so I recently I posted a different Someone recently

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<v Speaker 4>told me that it was kind of funny. They asked

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<v Speaker 4>me if I had ever photographed something in the ground

340
00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:35.399
<v Speaker 4>that was hard to see, and of answers, of course,

341
00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:39.279
<v Speaker 4>is yes. So I see a lot of people trying

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00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:42.320
<v Speaker 4>to do the right thing and they're taking you know,

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<v Speaker 4>putting the camera parallel to the ground. You know, that's

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00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:49.440
<v Speaker 4>one of the first steps is we don't need any

345
00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:53.200
<v Speaker 4>side shots with the camera, but we definitely need the scale,

346
00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:57.919
<v Speaker 4>and we need the pictures of the footprint, and those

347
00:16:58.240 --> 00:17:01.399
<v Speaker 4>those first close up photographs the footprint they need to

348
00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:06.240
<v Speaker 4>fill up the entire frame of the photograph. And you know,

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00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:08.759
<v Speaker 4>people are telling me, you know, well, we don't have

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00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:11.480
<v Speaker 4>a DSLR camera like you do things like that. But

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<v Speaker 4>I'm here to tell you. We were kind of playing

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00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:15.680
<v Speaker 4>around the other day and we decided to do a

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00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:19.799
<v Speaker 4>whole scene using just our phones, and it came out wonderfully.

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00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:24.480
<v Speaker 4>It was absolutely wonderful. So phones nowadays are fantastic, especially

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00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:27.359
<v Speaker 4>with that three D stuff that you light scan averse

356
00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:31.240
<v Speaker 4>that we've been using as well. But that first picture

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00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:34.799
<v Speaker 4>looking over the top, that's very important. But I think

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00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:39.319
<v Speaker 4>what people are forgetting is the lighting. If you can

359
00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:43.759
<v Speaker 4>carry some type of flashlight or something like that. What

360
00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:46.599
<v Speaker 4>we do is if the sun is too much in

361
00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:50.559
<v Speaker 4>the way, we'll actually put a umbrella to create some shade,

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00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:53.920
<v Speaker 4>and we'll either use the flash from the camera detached

363
00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:59.319
<v Speaker 4>from the camera itself to create side lighting to make

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00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:03.359
<v Speaker 4>the shadows than those ridges, or we'll use flashlights. My

365
00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.359
<v Speaker 4>favorite is some of these mechanic work lights that you

366
00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:09.640
<v Speaker 4>can unfold and it has like a long line of

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00:18:09.799 --> 00:18:13.519
<v Speaker 4>LEDs and we just set it down on the side

368
00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:16.519
<v Speaker 4>of the footprint and it shoots lights straight across it.

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<v Speaker 4>Anything that's sticking up from the ground. It creates a shadow.

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<v Speaker 4>And then we do that in multiple shots moving around

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<v Speaker 4>the print, because if you create a shadow, you could

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<v Speaker 4>accidentally cast a shadow over something important, so we do

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<v Speaker 4>it in multiple shots.

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<v Speaker 2>So move the light from photograph to photograph.

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<v Speaker 4>In the same photograph, like when we have the camera

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00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:41.799
<v Speaker 4>over that one impression, we'll move the light from the

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00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:44.759
<v Speaker 4>side to the front, to the other side to the back,

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00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:49.359
<v Speaker 4>so we're getting different angles of those shadows.

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00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:51.720
<v Speaker 2>Right, then take a picture for each position of the light.

380
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<v Speaker 4>For each position, each position, And you have to do

381
00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:57.079
<v Speaker 4>that because if you do it and you get too

382
00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:59.680
<v Speaker 4>long of a shadow, it could cover something up and

383
00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:04.559
<v Speaker 4>you don't want that. So and I think the other

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00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:08.039
<v Speaker 4>thing is on the ones that you suspect that may

385
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<v Speaker 4>have dermal ridges, we'll take it a step further and

386
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:17.319
<v Speaker 4>we'll actually grid that footprint off into sections, and we'll

387
00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:20.440
<v Speaker 4>make sure the scale is in each photograph, but we'll

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00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:23.559
<v Speaker 4>actually zoom in and get even closer to the point

389
00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:25.240
<v Speaker 4>where you may not even be able to tell it's

390
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:27.759
<v Speaker 4>a footprint. But I just have like the upper corner

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00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:30.559
<v Speaker 4>of the footprint, and we'll do that all the way around,

392
00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:32.799
<v Speaker 4>you know, because a further way the camera is. You know,

393
00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:34.799
<v Speaker 4>people want to zoom and look at the details, but

394
00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:37.640
<v Speaker 4>if you zoom in and you're too far away, all

395
00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:39.599
<v Speaker 4>that does is pixel it. So we have to just

396
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:43.240
<v Speaker 4>keep getting closer and closer and closer. And we've even

397
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:46.599
<v Speaker 4>done fingerprints with our phones. So I tried to tell

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00:19:46.599 --> 00:19:48.599
<v Speaker 4>an examiner the other day and they were like, my

399
00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:50.880
<v Speaker 4>camera's not working, and they're very upset, and I was

400
00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:52.720
<v Speaker 4>like here, here's your phone, let me show you. And

401
00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:54.920
<v Speaker 4>we did the whole thing with the side lighting and

402
00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:55.759
<v Speaker 4>it was amazing.

403
00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:58.319
<v Speaker 2>What would be the next step I want to take

404
00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:00.599
<v Speaker 2>this from I'm looking at a print in the ground

405
00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:03.359
<v Speaker 2>to I have it in somebody's hand. What would be

406
00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:03.920
<v Speaker 2>the next step?

407
00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:08.799
<v Speaker 4>After we've photographed it thoroughly, if it lends itself to

408
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:11.640
<v Speaker 4>you know, it has a lot of details in it,

409
00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:14.920
<v Speaker 4>We're now going to start trying to use some of

410
00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:18.440
<v Speaker 4>our three D scanning technology. And honestly, that's also going

411
00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:22.200
<v Speaker 4>to depend on the severity of the case. Right we

412
00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:24.480
<v Speaker 4>don't have the time to do it for everything, but

413
00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:26.519
<v Speaker 4>if we can, we're playing with it right now, trying

414
00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:31.160
<v Speaker 4>to incorporate it. But the next step is casting, just

415
00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:34.480
<v Speaker 4>like everybody else. And I'm not saying photographs take the

416
00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:39.279
<v Speaker 4>place of casting. Basically they go hand in hand. Some

417
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:42.119
<v Speaker 4>of the photographs will get stuff the cast doesn't. Sometimes

418
00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:45.200
<v Speaker 4>the cast get stuff the photographs doesn't don't, and you

419
00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:49.480
<v Speaker 4>have to use both. But once you have the cast. Honestly,

420
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:51.960
<v Speaker 4>once we have the cast in our hands, we're going

421
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:55.440
<v Speaker 4>to send it to a footwear examiner. We're not actually

422
00:20:55.519 --> 00:20:57.319
<v Speaker 4>going to clean it. We're gonna send it dirt and

423
00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:00.720
<v Speaker 4>all to the examiner. And the reasoning behind that is,

424
00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:04.039
<v Speaker 4>you know those casts, they pick up twigs and grass

425
00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:09.960
<v Speaker 4>and stones, and as they pick apart and takes those

426
00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:12.680
<v Speaker 4>things off, they document where these twigs and stones were.

427
00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:15.480
<v Speaker 4>That way, when they get to it, they can say, Okay,

428
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:20.440
<v Speaker 4>that weird impression inside the inside the cast isn't from

429
00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:23.400
<v Speaker 4>the thing that made the impression, but it was from

430
00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:24.480
<v Speaker 4>an artifact.

431
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:27.720
<v Speaker 2>Right. Well, so you basically compare the cast to the

432
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:31.079
<v Speaker 2>photographs itself, and I suppose in some ways there needs

433
00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:33.640
<v Speaker 2>to be not that it would be probably any doubt,

434
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:35.839
<v Speaker 2>but a correlation like oh yeah, I see that rock

435
00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:37.880
<v Speaker 2>in the picture. I see that rock in the cast.

436
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:40.880
<v Speaker 2>And then on top of that kind of separating what's

437
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:43.680
<v Speaker 2>actually an artifact from the foot and what's just noise

438
00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:44.759
<v Speaker 2>from the ground, right.

439
00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:47.359
<v Speaker 4>Yes, I mean you have to be able to show

440
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:51.440
<v Speaker 4>that that cast came from that impression. And that's another

441
00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:53.960
<v Speaker 4>reason why those photographs are so important. It kind of

442
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:56.759
<v Speaker 4>shows chain of custody of where that cast came from.

443
00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:00.839
<v Speaker 4>And I think that was an issue with something I've

444
00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:04.200
<v Speaker 4>seen before where I was sent to a blurry photograph

445
00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:06.200
<v Speaker 4>saying this cast came from here, but that was the

446
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:10.119
<v Speaker 4>only photograph, and that makes it kind of difficult to say, hey, yes,

447
00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:13.839
<v Speaker 4>this cast actually came from there, right right, I'm just

448
00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:16.920
<v Speaker 4>going to add one more thing about photographing the casts.

449
00:22:17.240 --> 00:22:20.400
<v Speaker 4>I think it only should be oblique lighting. I don't

450
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:24.160
<v Speaker 4>know where this thing started about putting fingerprint powder and

451
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:27.599
<v Speaker 4>trying to lift the fingerprints or dermal ridges off the

452
00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:30.519
<v Speaker 4>cast with tape. You don't really want to destroy the

453
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.119
<v Speaker 4>evidence anymore unless you're going to be able to like

454
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:35.680
<v Speaker 4>thoroughly clean it. I don't know. We've never really like

455
00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:38.640
<v Speaker 4>did stuff like that where we never would. I think

456
00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:40.559
<v Speaker 4>if we were going to do something like that, we

457
00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:43.960
<v Speaker 4>would use something like Acutrans, which is like a microsill.

458
00:22:44.119 --> 00:22:45.440
<v Speaker 4>I don't know if you're familiar with that.

459
00:22:46.039 --> 00:22:46.960
<v Speaker 2>No, I've never heard of that.

460
00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:53.119
<v Speaker 4>All right, So Acutrans is a forensic company. It's basically

461
00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:57.279
<v Speaker 4>nothing more than the dental bite registration material that the

462
00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:01.079
<v Speaker 4>dentists use. It basically has two things, kind of like

463
00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:04.519
<v Speaker 4>two little two's. You squirt it and mixes together. It

464
00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:07.119
<v Speaker 4>comes out and makes like a rubbery mold kind of thing.

465
00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:10.240
<v Speaker 4>We use it for tool impressions things like that.

466
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:12.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, you know, I mean, I know, I'm probably

467
00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:15.680
<v Speaker 2>exposing myself as the elementary school teacher at heart. But

468
00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:19.319
<v Speaker 2>you're talking about basically Plato, like a fancy Plato. Right.

469
00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:24.680
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it hardens, It hardens like a plastic But yeah,

470
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.119
<v Speaker 4>but you won't be able to really manipulate it once

471
00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:29.440
<v Speaker 4>it's dried. You can, you can bend it, but it's

472
00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:33.119
<v Speaker 4>not going to deform anymore. So you could do that

473
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:36.079
<v Speaker 4>to put it over top and then mess with it,

474
00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:40.680
<v Speaker 4>but we wouldn't keep messing with the cast for worry

475
00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:43.920
<v Speaker 4>of hurting it anymore. The original piece or the last

476
00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:45.039
<v Speaker 4>piece of evidence that you have.

477
00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:49.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, very good, Now you know the sas Quest dramatoglyphic

478
00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:51.319
<v Speaker 2>thing is basically all that came to light with the

479
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:53.640
<v Speaker 2>Paul Freeman stuff from the nineteen eighty two cast from

480
00:23:53.640 --> 00:23:56.799
<v Speaker 2>the Elk Wallow. And the first and the first person

481
00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:59.240
<v Speaker 2>to look at it, and certainly the strongest advocate of

482
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:02.640
<v Speaker 2>these particular or ridges and whatnot was doctor Grover Krantz.

483
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:05.759
<v Speaker 2>Have you had a chance to read doctor Grover Krantz's

484
00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:09.000
<v Speaker 2>book yet and his comments on the dramaticglyphics?

485
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:12.319
<v Speaker 4>No, I do have his book, it's right behind me.

486
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:13.799
<v Speaker 4>But I have not read it.

487
00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:14.880
<v Speaker 3>You know.

488
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:17.200
<v Speaker 4>The short time that I've been in it is basically

489
00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:21.240
<v Speaker 4>since I contacted you. And I've been lucky and I've

490
00:24:21.240 --> 00:24:23.960
<v Speaker 4>made a lot of contacts, but I also have a

491
00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:27.279
<v Speaker 4>lot of books, and it's getting hard to keep up.

492
00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:32.599
<v Speaker 4>I'm trying, I will say, if we're not going to

493
00:24:32.599 --> 00:24:35.480
<v Speaker 4>go into the Onion Mountain cast, are we we can?

494
00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:37.839
<v Speaker 2>We can? I just actually I watched your video the

495
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:39.480
<v Speaker 2>other day on it. I thought it was excellent. I

496
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:40.279
<v Speaker 2>thought it was excellent.

497
00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:44.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, thank you. I'm not trying to make anybody mad.

498
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:46.880
<v Speaker 4>I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers. I'm just trying

499
00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:51.079
<v Speaker 4>to take a solid approach to it and offer my opinion.

500
00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:53.920
<v Speaker 2>And well, that's what we're talking about science here though.

501
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:57.079
<v Speaker 2>This is we're trying to introduce science to this subject

502
00:24:57.279 --> 00:24:59.839
<v Speaker 2>that has shrouded in mythology and like, I don't know

503
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:02.599
<v Speaker 2>what's the word, like spook ism, you know, like where

504
00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:06.039
<v Speaker 2>people move on they have ridiculous things that they believe

505
00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:08.240
<v Speaker 2>and they move forward with that because they believe it

506
00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:10.960
<v Speaker 2>with no evidence to support it. Right, We're trying to

507
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:14.200
<v Speaker 2>introduce this the rules of evidence to this particular game.

508
00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:18.079
<v Speaker 2>I don't think anybody should be so emotionally attached to

509
00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:22.279
<v Speaker 2>their evidence that when somebody with qualifications refutes it that

510
00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:24.079
<v Speaker 2>they get but hurt about it and crawl away or

511
00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:26.279
<v Speaker 2>get angry about it. I think that there's plenty of

512
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:29.960
<v Speaker 2>room for people to disagree and have, you know, adults

513
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:34.079
<v Speaker 2>and coherent conversations about things and come to some conclusion.

514
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:35.799
<v Speaker 2>You know, I've been wrong lots of time. I've been

515
00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:38.799
<v Speaker 2>very publicly wrong lots of times about things that I've

516
00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:41.119
<v Speaker 2>said about Bigfoot. But man, that's the nature of the game.

517
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:43.359
<v Speaker 2>If you're talking about Bigfoot out loud, you're probably going

518
00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:45.839
<v Speaker 2>to say some things that aren't true eventually on accidents,

519
00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:47.519
<v Speaker 2>even if you're doing your best to tell the truth

520
00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:50.039
<v Speaker 2>all the time. You know, it's just one of those things.

521
00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:52.880
<v Speaker 2>And so, like, I agree with you, I don't think

522
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:56.319
<v Speaker 2>that the Onion Mountain track does show dramaticglyphics. I did

523
00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:58.960
<v Speaker 2>it first because I took somebody else's word for it.

524
00:25:59.559 --> 00:26:01.039
<v Speaker 2>But at the time time, because we kind of give

525
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:03.279
<v Speaker 2>away our power in some ways when we go to

526
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:05.400
<v Speaker 2>people who know more than us, and I think that's

527
00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:07.839
<v Speaker 2>an appropriate thing. Like I would always refer to you

528
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:10.880
<v Speaker 2>because you live in a world of dramaticglyphics, you know

529
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:14.759
<v Speaker 2>what I mean. I would have to give that to

530
00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:17.200
<v Speaker 2>you because you know so much more about it than

531
00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:19.599
<v Speaker 2>I ever will. And I think that's appropriate. We can't

532
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:24.279
<v Speaker 2>know everything about everything, right. I have great misgivings about

533
00:26:24.440 --> 00:26:29.599
<v Speaker 2>calling the Rinklefoot impressions as having dramatical ethics. I think

534
00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:32.400
<v Speaker 2>those are water striations because I found similar markings on

535
00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:35.960
<v Speaker 2>my cement floor in my garage. And there's another cast

536
00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:39.640
<v Speaker 2>actually from the nineteen eighty two Grays Harbor events that

537
00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:42.279
<v Speaker 2>I actually uncovered myself. I was like hidden, nobody knew

538
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:45.160
<v Speaker 2>about it until probably twenty twelve or something like that.

539
00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Turns out a woman up in Elma, Washington and had

540
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:51.599
<v Speaker 2>this cast in her garage that her husband casts at

541
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:53.799
<v Speaker 2>the same day as the Hereford casts. All these other

542
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:57.359
<v Speaker 2>casts were taken. They show the same casting artifacts as

543
00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:01.400
<v Speaker 2>the Onion Mountain cast. So, and certainly those are not

544
00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:04.720
<v Speaker 2>dramatic elypics. I think there's lots of room for disagreement.

545
00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:07.000
<v Speaker 2>But and of course then you get into the things

546
00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:11.559
<v Speaker 2>that are clearly dramaticlyphics, clearly dramaticlyphics, But then there are

547
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:15.400
<v Speaker 2>still questions were they introduced afterwards? Because humans have a

548
00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:17.920
<v Speaker 2>very bad habit of touching things that they're interested in.

549
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:21.480
<v Speaker 2>Are they from the sasquatch? And there'sre's so many questions

550
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:24.519
<v Speaker 2>that are left unanswered and so far, I mean, Jimmy

551
00:27:24.559 --> 00:27:27.839
<v Speaker 2>chilcut I think was very brave by sticking his neck

552
00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:30.680
<v Speaker 2>out like that. I disagree with a couple of his conclusions,

553
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:33.000
<v Speaker 2>but that doesn't take away anything from his expertise in

554
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.079
<v Speaker 2>my opinion. And I'm glad you're in the game now,

555
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:37.640
<v Speaker 2>I guess is kind of what I'm saying at the

556
00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:39.880
<v Speaker 2>end of the day. But we have a lot to

557
00:27:40.000 --> 00:27:43.960
<v Speaker 2>learn about sasquatch dramaticlyphics. And one of the first things

558
00:27:43.960 --> 00:27:46.440
<v Speaker 2>that I want to ask about the sasquatch dramaticallyphics or

559
00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:49.519
<v Speaker 2>any ape dramaticlyphics is, and you may or may not

560
00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:52.160
<v Speaker 2>know this, I don't know, do they come in different sizes?

561
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:55.039
<v Speaker 2>And like, for example, if I look at or even

562
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:59.240
<v Speaker 2>human human dramaticlyphics, are they more or less generally uniform

563
00:27:59.319 --> 00:28:01.640
<v Speaker 2>in spacing and that sort of stuff? And how does

564
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:04.400
<v Speaker 2>that differ in the other ape species? All Right, So

565
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:08.960
<v Speaker 2>the answer is, yeah, they do vary within humans or

566
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:09.759
<v Speaker 2>within species.

567
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:14.119
<v Speaker 4>Within humans and species not so much. I think the

568
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:17.880
<v Speaker 4>only real studies that I've seen within humans is comparing

569
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:22.039
<v Speaker 4>like adult males to adult males and adult females to

570
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:28.559
<v Speaker 4>adult females. And basically, the female friction ridges are there

571
00:28:28.599 --> 00:28:30.839
<v Speaker 4>going to be more dense, They're going to have more

572
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.160
<v Speaker 4>of them closer together, and they're going to be a

573
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:37.200
<v Speaker 4>little thinner, you know, in diameter cross and the males

574
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:41.119
<v Speaker 4>are going to be larger now definitely children as you go,

575
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:44.640
<v Speaker 4>of course, they're going to be smaller now. Chill Cut

576
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:47.640
<v Speaker 4>was nice enough to send me some texts with some

577
00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:50.119
<v Speaker 4>pictures of different types, and I think I had a

578
00:28:50.119 --> 00:28:54.519
<v Speaker 4>couple monkeys and orangutan and a gorilla of fingers, And

579
00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:57.759
<v Speaker 4>while there was no scale in the in the photographs,

580
00:28:58.599 --> 00:29:02.319
<v Speaker 4>it was readily apparent that they were of different sizes

581
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:06.880
<v Speaker 4>and even spacing. I found it pretty interesting in that

582
00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:11.000
<v Speaker 4>one of the smaller monkeys actually had very wide ridges.

583
00:29:11.720 --> 00:29:14.240
<v Speaker 4>I expected it to be smaller, you know, you know,

584
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:17.640
<v Speaker 4>body goes smaller, ridges go smaller. I expected that to happen,

585
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:21.319
<v Speaker 4>but it didn't appear as though it did. But that

586
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:24.440
<v Speaker 4>also could be a perspective issue with the with the picture,

587
00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:28.079
<v Speaker 4>since there was no scale. But I think when I

588
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:30.400
<v Speaker 4>look at some of the bottom of gorilla feet and

589
00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:35.359
<v Speaker 4>I see the crazy amount of ridge flow there and

590
00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:39.279
<v Speaker 4>it looks so similar to ours. But they're also, you know,

591
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:41.599
<v Speaker 4>about the same size. I have never seen a gorilla foot,

592
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:45.160
<v Speaker 4>but I'm talking about as in like height wise, but

593
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:48.000
<v Speaker 4>I would say definitely that they vary in size, and

594
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:52.200
<v Speaker 4>I wouldn't be surprised if something that was eight nine

595
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.839
<v Speaker 4>feet tall that those ridges weren't wider, I wouldn't be surprised.

596
00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:00.759
<v Speaker 4>But I also am going to reserve it or seeing

597
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:03.799
<v Speaker 4>the variances between the monkeys and the gorillas and the

598
00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:08.319
<v Speaker 4>chimpanzees and so on, that I wouldn't be surprised if

599
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:10.519
<v Speaker 4>it wasn't stilled our size.

600
00:30:10.920 --> 00:30:13.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the derms that I've seen on the Freeman cast

601
00:30:13.839 --> 00:30:16.319
<v Speaker 2>do seem to be about the same as human size,

602
00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:19.279
<v Speaker 2>and I've never you know, I don't know how to

603
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:23.160
<v Speaker 2>measure anything quite that small personally, but they don't to

604
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:25.200
<v Speaker 2>my eye, at least, they don't look dramatically different in

605
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:27.440
<v Speaker 2>any that's in any way. And that could be because

606
00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:29.920
<v Speaker 2>Fraeman touched some prints. We know that Paul did that

607
00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:32.279
<v Speaker 2>at some point. We know that in the very very

608
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:34.680
<v Speaker 2>first time he cast prints in June of nineteen eighty two.

609
00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:38.359
<v Speaker 2>He definitely touched the footprint in the ground because there

610
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:41.680
<v Speaker 2>are there are finger marks. And again, I mean lots

611
00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:44.000
<v Speaker 2>of people do this. You can see the same features

612
00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:50.599
<v Speaker 2>and the one cast from peter Burn, there's evidence of

613
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:54.079
<v Speaker 2>touching the footprint for Bob Titmas. A lot of people

614
00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:56.400
<v Speaker 2>have touched stuff in the ground when they look at it.

615
00:30:56.440 --> 00:30:58.400
<v Speaker 2>That's just what humans do, of course, So we don't

616
00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:01.359
<v Speaker 2>know if that was introduced or not, mister Freeman or not.

617
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:04.440
<v Speaker 4>That was something that you introduced to me that I

618
00:31:04.559 --> 00:31:08.279
<v Speaker 4>never even considered when we were talking when I was

619
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:11.519
<v Speaker 4>first looking at one of those casts, and you reminded

620
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:14.400
<v Speaker 4>me that when somebody comes across something that looks so

621
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:17.720
<v Speaker 4>crazy that their first instinct is to reach in and

622
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:19.759
<v Speaker 4>touch it. And I'm like, whoa, you know, my brain

623
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:21.920
<v Speaker 4>is in a different world, you know, for law enforcement.

624
00:31:22.440 --> 00:31:25.559
<v Speaker 4>And then it totally made sense, and I was like, okay,

625
00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:28.759
<v Speaker 4>let me rethink, you know, because my brain was going

626
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:35.519
<v Speaker 4>straight to someone maybe fabricating something versus accidental or unintentional.

627
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:40.960
<v Speaker 2>Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.

628
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:49.440
<v Speaker 2>Will be right back after these messages. Yeah, I know

629
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:52.000
<v Speaker 2>whether people have recommended things to you, but ignore them.

630
00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:56.039
<v Speaker 2>Read doctor Krantz's book. I'm kidding, of course, like listen

631
00:31:56.039 --> 00:31:59.640
<v Speaker 2>to everybody, but doctor Krantz's book is a fantastic first step.

632
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:03.680
<v Speaker 2>There's actually when you're someone like you whose expertise is dramaticglyphics,

633
00:32:03.880 --> 00:32:05.839
<v Speaker 2>because he's the first guy that really advocated for it,

634
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:10.440
<v Speaker 2>and he felt at the time that the dramatoglyphic evidence

635
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:14.519
<v Speaker 2>was strong enough that perhaps those can be accepted as

636
00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:17.039
<v Speaker 2>the holotype of the species. In other words, can we

637
00:32:17.119 --> 00:32:21.279
<v Speaker 2>prove the species with the dramatoglyphics to avoid killing one.

638
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:24.119
<v Speaker 2>That was his intent that he was saying, well, this

639
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:26.960
<v Speaker 2>can't be fake. And he brought it to various experts,

640
00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:29.079
<v Speaker 2>and some of these experts you may even know, because

641
00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:30.880
<v Speaker 2>he does name some of some of them in the book.

642
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:32.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember what their names were, of course, but

643
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:34.440
<v Speaker 2>you might have heard of these things being in your

644
00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:37.960
<v Speaker 2>specialized field he was. That was his intent to try

645
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:40.559
<v Speaker 2>to prove the species without killing one, even though he

646
00:32:40.599 --> 00:32:42.240
<v Speaker 2>was more than happy to kill one too. He's very

647
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:45.599
<v Speaker 2>very well known for that. Do you think that dramatoglyphic

648
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:47.599
<v Speaker 2>evidence could rise to that level.

649
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:50.799
<v Speaker 4>I think the problem that we have no matter what,

650
00:32:51.839 --> 00:32:55.119
<v Speaker 4>when we're looking at friction ridges or dermal ridges within

651
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:58.839
<v Speaker 4>those footprints that we find or on a cast, is

652
00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:02.559
<v Speaker 4>we may be able to definitively say yes, these are

653
00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:08.519
<v Speaker 4>dermal ridges, and the depositor actually put those there. I

654
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:12.240
<v Speaker 4>think the problem is it's not a controlled sample, like

655
00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:15.319
<v Speaker 4>no one, you know, actually observed a big foot stepping

656
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:20.119
<v Speaker 4>into that spot and leaving those those dermal ridges within

657
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:23.480
<v Speaker 4>that footprint. I think if you were to hand me

658
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:28.279
<v Speaker 4>a fifteen you know, sixteen foot cast and there were

659
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:33.079
<v Speaker 4>clear dermal ridges running from end to end, I think

660
00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:34.279
<v Speaker 4>we may have something there.

661
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:36.400
<v Speaker 2>Fifteen foot you mean inch cast?

662
00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:40.960
<v Speaker 4>I assume fifteen inch fifteen inch, Yeah, yeah.

663
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:44.079
<v Speaker 2>This is a sixty foot bigfoot. Yeah, unbelievable.

664
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:46.680
<v Speaker 4>I think you know, it's going to have to be

665
00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:49.960
<v Speaker 4>something large, because if it falls within the human realm,

666
00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:53.799
<v Speaker 4>you know, the human size, then that's easily just dismissed.

667
00:33:53.839 --> 00:33:56.240
<v Speaker 4>But you give me something that no one's ever seen

668
00:33:56.279 --> 00:33:58.119
<v Speaker 4>in the middle of nowhere, I think a lot of

669
00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:01.519
<v Speaker 4>people still aren't going to accept it. But someone like

670
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:04.880
<v Speaker 4>me may be able to look at those friction ridges

671
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:08.400
<v Speaker 4>and say, listen, that went in with the original impression

672
00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:10.679
<v Speaker 4>and in the ground. I don't know what to tell you.

673
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:13.880
<v Speaker 4>I don't know anything else, but those went in with

674
00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:16.920
<v Speaker 4>the impression into the ground and they weren't introduced later

675
00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:18.519
<v Speaker 4>that can be done.

676
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:21.280
<v Speaker 2>That brings up an interesting question, at least to my mind.

677
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:24.400
<v Speaker 2>And this is something that Jimmy Chilcut was advocating for.

678
00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:26.360
<v Speaker 2>And I don't know if it's true, but maybe you do.

679
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:28.760
<v Speaker 2>Maybe you don't know yet, but this is definitely something

680
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:32.639
<v Speaker 2>that you probably can figure out. Do Different species of apes,

681
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:37.440
<v Speaker 2>including humans, have different ridge flow patterns. So if you

682
00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:41.079
<v Speaker 2>look at a blank canvas and you have enough dramaticlythics,

683
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:43.280
<v Speaker 2>can you tell if it came from an orangutan? Can

684
00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:46.480
<v Speaker 2>you tell if it came from bonobo? Could you tell something? Oh,

685
00:34:46.519 --> 00:34:49.880
<v Speaker 2>this is an unknown species because this is a ridge

686
00:34:49.880 --> 00:34:52.119
<v Speaker 2>pattern that I've never seen before. Or are they all

687
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:55.039
<v Speaker 2>more or less the same? Because, as you so astutely

688
00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:58.199
<v Speaker 2>pointed out in your fantastic video about the Onion Mountain cast,

689
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:02.360
<v Speaker 2>dramaticlythics are perpendicular to the direction of growth and a foot,

690
00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:04.800
<v Speaker 2>and therefore your feet all grow the same, and so

691
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:06.679
<v Speaker 2>the ridge flu patterns are more or less the same.

692
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:13.159
<v Speaker 4>It would begin with having those known, those exemplar samples,

693
00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:17.039
<v Speaker 4>So I would, honestly, I would have to have a

694
00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:21.119
<v Speaker 4>series of bonobo footprints right to be able to compare

695
00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:21.679
<v Speaker 4>to them.

696
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:23.159
<v Speaker 2>Could you have a bonobo foot?

697
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:28.159
<v Speaker 4>If you had one, you could say there is a possibility,

698
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:31.880
<v Speaker 4>because even on the bottom of my foot versus the

699
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:35.000
<v Speaker 4>bottom of my partner's foot at work, he has a

700
00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:38.000
<v Speaker 4>loop pattern that goes right across the center, and mine

701
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:40.760
<v Speaker 4>all goes straight across. So you can still have a

702
00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:44.480
<v Speaker 4>few variances here and there, but generally speaking, they're all

703
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:47.199
<v Speaker 4>going to be about the same because all of our

704
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:50.559
<v Speaker 4>human feet grow the same way. You're right, but I

705
00:35:50.599 --> 00:35:53.559
<v Speaker 4>would I'm speaking out a turn when I'm saying I

706
00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:56.239
<v Speaker 4>have not seen enough of the bottom of any of

707
00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:59.519
<v Speaker 4>the monkey's feet or eight feet to be able to

708
00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:05.239
<v Speaker 4>tell you what's a consistent known I would guess that

709
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:07.960
<v Speaker 4>they pretty much since they're pretty much forming the same

710
00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:10.400
<v Speaker 4>way throughout their species. You know, remember when I was

711
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:13.719
<v Speaker 4>talking about developmental stability. If all their feet are basically

712
00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:17.599
<v Speaker 4>growing the same way, then I'm expecting for all those

713
00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:20.199
<v Speaker 4>friction ridges to grow the same way with just a

714
00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:23.599
<v Speaker 4>few tiny variances. That makes them individual.

715
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:28.280
<v Speaker 2>Are you aware of a company called Skeletons Unlimited or

716
00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Bones Clones. They're two different companies. They cross license some stuff,

717
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:33.519
<v Speaker 2>so they have a lot of the same catalog. Are

718
00:36:33.559 --> 00:36:35.320
<v Speaker 2>you familiar with that company at all or either one

719
00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:35.840
<v Speaker 2>of them? Rather?

720
00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:37.440
<v Speaker 4>I am, I am okay.

721
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:41.480
<v Speaker 2>Are you aware that they make life casts of the

722
00:36:41.480 --> 00:36:43.840
<v Speaker 2>feet and the hands of the great apes?

723
00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:46.079
<v Speaker 4>Yes, I just can't afford it.

724
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:50.199
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, And I bought an orangutan life casts

725
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:53.039
<v Speaker 2>from them for display at the North American Bigfoot Center.

726
00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:56.920
<v Speaker 2>It went on a display with the orangu Dang, which

727
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:01.239
<v Speaker 2>is a large biped that that it's reported to live

728
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:04.960
<v Speaker 2>in western Sumatra, and they, unlike a sasquatch, they have

729
00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:08.920
<v Speaker 2>a big toe that is abducted, which means off to

730
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:12.519
<v Speaker 2>the side like a thumb. And yeah, yeah, it's very

731
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:14.840
<v Speaker 2>very interesting. And people have argued, no, that's just an

732
00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:18.239
<v Speaker 2>orangutan on the ground, But so I put an orangutan foot,

733
00:37:18.679 --> 00:37:21.239
<v Speaker 2>actual life casts of an orangutan foot on the same

734
00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:24.199
<v Speaker 2>display as the Orangu Dang casts that I managed to

735
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:27.000
<v Speaker 2>obtain and clearly showing that they are not the same

736
00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:29.519
<v Speaker 2>at all. But I guess the point is that the

737
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:34.519
<v Speaker 2>orangutan foot life cast you can see the dramaticalytics plane

738
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:36.920
<v Speaker 2>as they That might be an interesting avenue and it's

739
00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:39.880
<v Speaker 2>probably tax deductible for you to go ahead and and

740
00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:44.519
<v Speaker 2>purchase the whole slew of hand and foot im pressure

741
00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:47.760
<v Speaker 2>or life casts from this company. I actually have hand

742
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:52.039
<v Speaker 2>casts from all the great ape species humans and bonobos

743
00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:56.320
<v Speaker 2>and chimps and orangutans and gorillas and sasquatches in another

744
00:37:56.360 --> 00:37:58.360
<v Speaker 2>display at the North American big Foot Center to show

745
00:37:58.360 --> 00:38:01.440
<v Speaker 2>their similarities and differences, and they to show the dramatic

746
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:05.400
<v Speaker 2>lipics on the on the hands. So I mean it's

747
00:38:05.440 --> 00:38:08.199
<v Speaker 2>hard to get actual ape hands because all ape species

748
00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:12.760
<v Speaker 2>are endangered at this moment except for humans too. Well, yeah,

749
00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:14.360
<v Speaker 2>we're in danger for ourselves.

750
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:14.280
<v Speaker 4>I think.

751
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:17.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but yeah, you hear what I'm saying. You smell.

752
00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:20.119
<v Speaker 2>You're smelling when I'm stepping in. I think that might

753
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:22.199
<v Speaker 2>be a good way for you to to increase your

754
00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:24.880
<v Speaker 2>breadth of study into the non human primates.

755
00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:27.000
<v Speaker 4>I don't know what kind of money you think the

756
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:28.199
<v Speaker 4>police pay me.

757
00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:33.079
<v Speaker 2>Man, I'm a big footer, I'm a big fetter. You

758
00:38:33.159 --> 00:38:36.679
<v Speaker 2>got to be making more than me. Put it on

759
00:38:36.679 --> 00:38:39.679
<v Speaker 2>the police budget. There you go, there you go you.

760
00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:42.800
<v Speaker 3>Know you know what, Well, speaking of like hand prints

761
00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:45.360
<v Speaker 3>and stuff for your purposes, wouldn't it be better to

762
00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:48.800
<v Speaker 3>have like the glass on windows and stuff like that,

763
00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:51.599
<v Speaker 3>or the side of ability that's that's a lot better

764
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:54.079
<v Speaker 3>to get their baticle things off a hand than trying

765
00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:56.360
<v Speaker 3>to get a print like was bending down on a

766
00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:57.559
<v Speaker 3>water hole or something like that.

767
00:38:57.679 --> 00:39:01.719
<v Speaker 4>Right, Oh, absolutely, I would love to get my hands

768
00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:03.800
<v Speaker 4>on some of that stuff. That's our bread and butter.

769
00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:06.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, because clip after we had the guests No Way

770
00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:09.960
<v Speaker 3>Bigfoot on in Ohio, I've been wanting to talk to

771
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:11.800
<v Speaker 3>you since that. That was a couple months ago. He

772
00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:14.400
<v Speaker 3>said that you can prove that those were made by

773
00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:14.880
<v Speaker 3>a human.

774
00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:21.039
<v Speaker 4>I can prove that the hand impressions that are in

775
00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:27.679
<v Speaker 4>those dusty areas like the table and the grill that's shown,

776
00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:31.119
<v Speaker 4>those hands were actually set down in the dust and

777
00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:35.400
<v Speaker 4>wiggled back and forth to make the impression. And that's

778
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:39.559
<v Speaker 4>something that I wouldn't think that a bigfoot walking by

779
00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:43.400
<v Speaker 4>and accidentally touching something which stand there and press their

780
00:39:43.440 --> 00:39:46.320
<v Speaker 4>hand and wiggle it back and forth. It almost looks

781
00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:49.000
<v Speaker 4>like it's intentionally made to make the impression.

782
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:52.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, because I was least impressed with that part. But

783
00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:55.719
<v Speaker 3>the prints on the glass on the vehicle, those are

784
00:39:55.719 --> 00:39:58.519
<v Speaker 3>the ones I found, like the baby gorilla armed comparison

785
00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:00.960
<v Speaker 3>and all that, I found that pretty compelling. Like I mean,

786
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:04.679
<v Speaker 3>I haven't seen a lot of Bigfoot researchers that take

787
00:40:04.760 --> 00:40:07.960
<v Speaker 3>those final detailed photos because she's like a professional photographer.

788
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:14.000
<v Speaker 4>So I've looked at those very carefully, and almost all

789
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:16.920
<v Speaker 4>of those impressions that are on the glass, especially on

790
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:22.320
<v Speaker 4>the car, those were pressed straight down and lifted straight up.

791
00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:27.920
<v Speaker 4>Well some of them were. There are some fingerprints that

792
00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:31.480
<v Speaker 4>they show that I don't think that they realize that

793
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:36.880
<v Speaker 4>they're actually inverted, and they go up underneath that little

794
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:39.440
<v Speaker 4>rubber strip that's at the top part of the window

795
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:42.559
<v Speaker 4>of the glass of the driver's side door. And the

796
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:46.480
<v Speaker 4>only way that that could have been deposited is if

797
00:40:46.480 --> 00:40:51.079
<v Speaker 4>that window was down and a hand from inside the

798
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:54.719
<v Speaker 4>car deposited those fingerprints and then the window was rolled

799
00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:58.559
<v Speaker 4>back up. Those cannot have been deposited unless the window

800
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:01.119
<v Speaker 4>was down and then rolled back up up again and

801
00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:04.119
<v Speaker 4>then they were also inverted. So more than likely that's

802
00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:07.360
<v Speaker 4>from somebody having the door open with the window down

803
00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:09.880
<v Speaker 4>and they're reached up and grabbed the glass, and you know,

804
00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:11.840
<v Speaker 4>like you go to pull your door shut, but you

805
00:41:11.880 --> 00:41:15.360
<v Speaker 4>grab the glass. That's exactly what it looked like. Then

806
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:18.239
<v Speaker 4>there's another one that she says it looks like a

807
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:22.400
<v Speaker 4>juvenile gorilla elbow. Oh not that one. It was a

808
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:25.559
<v Speaker 4>juvenile footprint that was on the on the glass as well.

809
00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:29.920
<v Speaker 4>And she does a comparison of a like a monkey

810
00:41:29.960 --> 00:41:32.320
<v Speaker 4>foot or a gorilla foot and put some side by side.

811
00:41:32.840 --> 00:41:36.360
<v Speaker 4>But it's actually the right side of the writer's palm

812
00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:40.719
<v Speaker 4>of a hand. It's it's it's not a foot. I

813
00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:43.800
<v Speaker 4>was able to easily identify that and just move on

814
00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:47.719
<v Speaker 4>the arm. I can't tell you it's definitely an arm,

815
00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:50.039
<v Speaker 4>but I can't tell you where it came from. There's

816
00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:53.119
<v Speaker 4>not enough identifying characteristics on it to say what made

817
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:56.360
<v Speaker 4>but it is an arm. But my problem is is

818
00:41:56.440 --> 00:41:58.840
<v Speaker 4>once I start to see a bunch of red flags,

819
00:41:59.239 --> 00:42:02.840
<v Speaker 4>and it's one red flag after another after another, I mean,

820
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:05.199
<v Speaker 4>I could be very well. I could very well be wrong,

821
00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:08.119
<v Speaker 4>but not wrong about the impressions. I want to be

822
00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:10.960
<v Speaker 4>clear about that, but I could be wrong about the

823
00:42:11.079 --> 00:42:14.280
<v Speaker 4>entire situation. I don't want to say anybody's faking anything,

824
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:17.719
<v Speaker 4>but they could be misinterpreting some of the stuff that's happening.

825
00:42:18.239 --> 00:42:20.800
<v Speaker 4>And that's what I think is happening. I think maybe

826
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:25.880
<v Speaker 4>some stuff happened on her property and in looking for

827
00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:29.480
<v Speaker 4>other evidence, may have found some that she's just misinterpreting.

828
00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:31.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't think. I don't think she's a hoaxer

829
00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:35.000
<v Speaker 3>at all. I mean a misinterpretation would my mind, would

830
00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:37.760
<v Speaker 3>be the most logical if you can show that, yeah,

831
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:42.360
<v Speaker 3>this is indeed not deposited by a bigfoot.

832
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:44.920
<v Speaker 2>So now that we're talking about impressions on or not

833
00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:47.400
<v Speaker 2>impressions that's the fray word, but marks I guess on

834
00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:51.039
<v Speaker 2>glass and whatnot. You know, I do hear a lot

835
00:42:51.039 --> 00:42:54.679
<v Speaker 2>of bigfooters claiming to have, you know, a handprint on

836
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:57.280
<v Speaker 2>the back of their car, or an arm print on

837
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:01.679
<v Speaker 2>top of the hood, and these sorts of things. What

838
00:43:01.880 --> 00:43:04.679
<v Speaker 2>is the correct way to deal to really get the

839
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:06.519
<v Speaker 2>most to deal with that kind of evidence and also

840
00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:09.559
<v Speaker 2>get the most out of that evidence, because clearly there

841
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:11.519
<v Speaker 2>would be sebum on it, which of course is the

842
00:43:11.559 --> 00:43:13.760
<v Speaker 2>goo that coats our body, you know, and there might

843
00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:16.119
<v Speaker 2>be DNA in there. Is it just a matter of

844
00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:19.800
<v Speaker 2>collecting the pattern itself. I doing a fingerprint lift of

845
00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:22.159
<v Speaker 2>some sort. What would like you do if you went

846
00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:24.000
<v Speaker 2>and camping at one of your spots and then you

847
00:43:24.119 --> 00:43:26.719
<v Speaker 2>found a big old handprint on the side of your car,

848
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:29.840
<v Speaker 2>what would you do to collect that evidence and get

849
00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:30.840
<v Speaker 2>the most out of it.

850
00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:34.639
<v Speaker 4>So the very first thing that I would do is

851
00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:37.800
<v Speaker 4>I would put some type of scale or fix some

852
00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:40.599
<v Speaker 4>type of scale on the window next to that impression.

853
00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:43.960
<v Speaker 4>And the reason that I'm going to do that first

854
00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:46.880
<v Speaker 4>is because I'm going to take a series of like

855
00:43:46.960 --> 00:43:50.639
<v Speaker 4>three hundred and sixty degree photographs to show where my

856
00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:53.840
<v Speaker 4>vehicle is, you know, put it in a context where

857
00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:57.440
<v Speaker 4>is my car? And it also shows from a distance

858
00:43:58.159 --> 00:44:01.480
<v Speaker 4>where by that pression is. You can see the sticker

859
00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:04.480
<v Speaker 4>or the scale hanging there, So now you know where

860
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:07.480
<v Speaker 4>it is. So when I do my closer up photographs,

861
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:10.719
<v Speaker 4>you don't think, well, and I can't even tell where

862
00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:13.320
<v Speaker 4>that is, you know, That's that seems to be a problem.

863
00:44:13.559 --> 00:44:13.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

864
00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:16.159
<v Speaker 2>Context, That's actually something I don't really think about as

865
00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:18.800
<v Speaker 2>much as I should, the context of the situation. I

866
00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:21.440
<v Speaker 2>always zero in on, say the footprint or the thing

867
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:25.199
<v Speaker 2>of interest, and I rarely show the context and take

868
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:26.199
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of pictures like that.

869
00:44:26.639 --> 00:44:28.679
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's easy to get tunnel vision because you get

870
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:30.719
<v Speaker 4>excited and you're like, oh my gosh, there's my evidence.

871
00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:32.639
<v Speaker 4>I got to get it. I'm going to take pictures

872
00:44:32.679 --> 00:44:35.320
<v Speaker 4>of it. But you do need to take those three

873
00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:38.559
<v Speaker 4>hundred and sixties placing it where it's at, because everyone's

874
00:44:38.599 --> 00:44:41.039
<v Speaker 4>going to say, well, where was this, And if you

875
00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:43.679
<v Speaker 4>take a shot behind the car and it's behind a kmart,

876
00:44:43.719 --> 00:44:46.199
<v Speaker 4>now you have a problem, right, But if you're doing

877
00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:48.079
<v Speaker 4>three sixty and you're out in the middle of nowhere,

878
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:51.760
<v Speaker 4>it may lend some more credibility. But so I would

879
00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:54.320
<v Speaker 4>do that, and then i'd come in and do those pictures,

880
00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:59.079
<v Speaker 4>just like I did with the footprint earlier, with the sidelighting.

881
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:02.119
<v Speaker 4>With the that's all you need. If you can see

882
00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:04.719
<v Speaker 4>it with your eyes without having put powder on it,

883
00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:07.119
<v Speaker 4>then you can hit side lighting on it and it's

884
00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:09.519
<v Speaker 4>going to make it pop. I think the biggest mistake

885
00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:13.519
<v Speaker 4>people make is trying to angle their camera to get

886
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:16.000
<v Speaker 4>the right image because they can't see it and they're

887
00:45:16.079 --> 00:45:18.800
<v Speaker 4>using the glare to try to see it. What they

888
00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:21.599
<v Speaker 4>should be doing is keeping that camera parallel to the

889
00:45:21.639 --> 00:45:24.960
<v Speaker 4>surface and using your own lighting from the sides to

890
00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:27.440
<v Speaker 4>make it pop and a little trick. If you have

891
00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:30.199
<v Speaker 4>clear glass and you're having trouble putting it making it

892
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:32.519
<v Speaker 4>show up, you can put something dark on the other

893
00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:36.039
<v Speaker 4>side of the glass. We carry like black sheets of paper,

894
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:38.719
<v Speaker 4>black fingerprint cards, and we'll actually tape it to the

895
00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:41.159
<v Speaker 4>other side of the glass so it can offer some contracts.

896
00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:46.920
<v Speaker 2>Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.

897
00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:48.920
<v Speaker 2>We'll be right back after these messages.

898
00:45:55.239 --> 00:45:57.920
<v Speaker 4>So after the photographing, the next thing that we would

899
00:45:57.960 --> 00:46:00.519
<v Speaker 4>do is we would look to see if there's an

900
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:04.679
<v Speaker 4>area that may lend itself for swabbing for DNA, so

901
00:46:05.400 --> 00:46:08.800
<v Speaker 4>basically a spot that's not going to have our good

902
00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:12.760
<v Speaker 4>dermal ridges, you know, maybe just some smears or something.

903
00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:15.400
<v Speaker 4>So we've already documented it with the camera. Now we

904
00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:18.320
<v Speaker 4>can touch the stuff that doesn't matter. So now I

905
00:46:18.360 --> 00:46:20.880
<v Speaker 4>can take my swabs of the stuff that doesn't have

906
00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:23.679
<v Speaker 4>my dermal ridges and I'll tell you Now, you know,

907
00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:27.119
<v Speaker 4>it used to be we we fingerprint powder everything now still,

908
00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:31.880
<v Speaker 4>but we mainly work from photographs on fingerprints, so scale

909
00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:34.880
<v Speaker 4>with photographs, that's pretty much it. But if you want

910
00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:36.760
<v Speaker 4>to take it with you, now it's time to break

911
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:39.920
<v Speaker 4>out the fingerprint powder or something else. You know a

912
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:42.119
<v Speaker 4>lot of people of I have a partner who has

913
00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:45.199
<v Speaker 4>a YouTube channel to The Science Detective, and he just

914
00:46:45.199 --> 00:46:49.760
<v Speaker 4>did an episode where they used makeup the process for fingerprints.

915
00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:53.119
<v Speaker 2>We did that actually on a face smudge from Texas.

916
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:56.199
<v Speaker 2>I was at a conference and the people had a

917
00:46:56.519 --> 00:47:00.559
<v Speaker 2>who had multiple sasquatch encounters on their property found a

918
00:47:00.599 --> 00:47:03.719
<v Speaker 2>big face smudge at about like six and a half

919
00:47:03.880 --> 00:47:06.840
<v Speaker 2>or so feet above the ground on their one glass

920
00:47:06.840 --> 00:47:09.320
<v Speaker 2>when they closed all the curtains every single night because

921
00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:11.320
<v Speaker 2>the bigfoot they saw on their property freaked them out.

922
00:47:11.559 --> 00:47:13.559
<v Speaker 2>And the only one on their in their entire house

923
00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:16.039
<v Speaker 2>that hasn't been blocked off was the front door, and

924
00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:19.599
<v Speaker 2>they found a big face smudge higher than any taller

925
00:47:19.599 --> 00:47:21.280
<v Speaker 2>than anybody else in the house, you know, like above

926
00:47:21.320 --> 00:47:24.360
<v Speaker 2>anybody else's level. And I went to the Texas conference

927
00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:28.239
<v Speaker 2>in Jefferson by Craig Ruole Heater's conference a few years ago,

928
00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:30.559
<v Speaker 2>and the witnesses were there and they actually removed the

929
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:32.679
<v Speaker 2>door and brought it to us.

930
00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:35.480
<v Speaker 4>I was laughing because I was just thinking, we've done

931
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:38.000
<v Speaker 4>the same thing where we've gone. It looks too fragile,

932
00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:38.920
<v Speaker 4>we're taking the door.

933
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Yeah, it was really nice of them to do,

934
00:47:41.079 --> 00:47:44.840
<v Speaker 2>and Shelley coming to Montana and I got to work,

935
00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:46.920
<v Speaker 2>and of course I heard that they were doing this

936
00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:49.679
<v Speaker 2>when I was already en route to the airport, you know,

937
00:47:49.719 --> 00:47:51.679
<v Speaker 2>so I couldn't bring my fingerprint kit that I have

938
00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:54.239
<v Speaker 2>at home or anything like that, And so I was

939
00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:57.960
<v Speaker 2>texting back and forth with Shelley and she actually used

940
00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:01.119
<v Speaker 2>like I makeup of some and crunched it up even

941
00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:03.880
<v Speaker 2>further and made a very very fine black powder and

942
00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:06.679
<v Speaker 2>we use that in lieu of the graphite powder that

943
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:09.760
<v Speaker 2>we would normally use for a fingerprint lift. And we

944
00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:12.039
<v Speaker 2>pulled the facelift and it's actually in the museum right

945
00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:14.079
<v Speaker 2>now too, So that's kind of a neat thing that

946
00:48:14.119 --> 00:48:14.960
<v Speaker 2>we have on display.

947
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:17.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, if you understand the process, you can get creative

948
00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:20.079
<v Speaker 4>with your materials. It's amazing.

949
00:48:20.519 --> 00:48:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, improvising, right, improvising so always. I'm a jazz musician

950
00:48:24.480 --> 00:48:24.920
<v Speaker 2>after all.

951
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:29.480
<v Speaker 3>So still do they still recommend doing that, like heating

952
00:48:29.559 --> 00:48:33.960
<v Speaker 3>up super glue and like putting like a little tart

953
00:48:34.039 --> 00:48:36.679
<v Speaker 3>type thing over the glass or the whatever the prints

954
00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:40.079
<v Speaker 3>on and then letting the super glue heat up like boil,

955
00:48:40.119 --> 00:48:43.199
<v Speaker 3>and that cloud that comes off it will make a

956
00:48:43.239 --> 00:48:47.239
<v Speaker 3>perfect it'll cover the print perfect for show.

957
00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:51.559
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, so we still use super glue fuming inside the lab.

958
00:48:51.639 --> 00:48:53.920
<v Speaker 4>We don't do it out in the field so much.

959
00:48:54.920 --> 00:48:57.559
<v Speaker 4>We pretty much use like black fingerprint powder out in

960
00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:01.159
<v Speaker 4>the field if we're gonna go for fingerprints. But we

961
00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:04.159
<v Speaker 4>make the distinction when we're out on is it something

962
00:49:04.239 --> 00:49:06.639
<v Speaker 4>we can take with us to the lab. If it's

963
00:49:06.679 --> 00:49:08.920
<v Speaker 4>something we can take with us, then it's going to

964
00:49:08.960 --> 00:49:11.199
<v Speaker 4>be super glued. We're not going to put fingerprint powder

965
00:49:11.239 --> 00:49:15.000
<v Speaker 4>on it. Fingerprint powder is more destructive, right, But yeah,

966
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:18.000
<v Speaker 4>we're gonna use We use super glue every other day.

967
00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:19.400
<v Speaker 4>I was just doing it today.

968
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:21.239
<v Speaker 3>Where did you learn this? Did you go to like

969
00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:24.400
<v Speaker 3>the chronicle the FBI school for this or did you

970
00:49:24.519 --> 00:49:26.960
<v Speaker 3>learn from like a distuot apartment or how did you

971
00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:27.440
<v Speaker 3>learn all this?

972
00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:32.639
<v Speaker 4>So it's it started off just learning how to, you know,

973
00:49:33.039 --> 00:49:36.079
<v Speaker 4>use my fingerprint brush and powder. When I was on

974
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:39.400
<v Speaker 4>the street, we were required to try to lift fingerprints

975
00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:42.079
<v Speaker 4>off of certain crimes. But when I went to the

976
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:47.480
<v Speaker 4>crime scene unit. We actually have a large training facility

977
00:49:47.599 --> 00:49:50.679
<v Speaker 4>here in Georgia called the Georgia Public Safety Training Center,

978
00:49:51.639 --> 00:49:56.480
<v Speaker 4>and we were required to basically take all these classes,

979
00:49:56.519 --> 00:49:59.039
<v Speaker 4>you know, so we could get certifications and things like that.

980
00:49:59.119 --> 00:50:01.159
<v Speaker 4>And then I went to a three and a half

981
00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:04.719
<v Speaker 4>month stint at the National Forensic Academy, you know, to

982
00:50:04.920 --> 00:50:08.079
<v Speaker 4>even up my game even more. And then it became

983
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:13.039
<v Speaker 4>about I became addicted to fingerprints and how to get

984
00:50:13.039 --> 00:50:15.840
<v Speaker 4>them off of difficult surfaces. And that's pretty much what

985
00:50:15.920 --> 00:50:18.960
<v Speaker 4>I do now is read and study how to do that.

986
00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:22.079
<v Speaker 4>It became a what can I do to get off

987
00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:24.039
<v Speaker 4>of this? What can I do to get it off

988
00:50:24.039 --> 00:50:27.760
<v Speaker 4>of this? And me and my partner we became really

989
00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:31.239
<v Speaker 4>good at it. But his area's bloodstain and minus fingerprints

990
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:36.199
<v Speaker 4>and fingerprint processing, and we actually got so good at

991
00:50:36.199 --> 00:50:39.360
<v Speaker 4>what we do that we're now consulting for different different

992
00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:44.280
<v Speaker 4>agencies and different counties, and we're working cold cases for

993
00:50:44.360 --> 00:50:47.800
<v Speaker 4>other counties. So we got pretty well known in our area.

994
00:50:48.280 --> 00:50:52.719
<v Speaker 4>But it's it's a love, honestly. And I've had some

995
00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:56.119
<v Speaker 4>really challenging things of trying to get fingerprints off of

996
00:50:56.320 --> 00:50:59.800
<v Speaker 4>and unfortunately I figured out one only to find out

997
00:50:59.840 --> 00:51:01.760
<v Speaker 4>that we use the last of the product that they

998
00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:06.039
<v Speaker 4>don't make anymore, So that that was an interesting one.

999
00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:08.119
<v Speaker 3>What do they teach you about casting? Do they give

1000
00:51:08.199 --> 00:51:10.639
<v Speaker 3>to give you any tricks about casting, like footprints, like

1001
00:51:10.679 --> 00:51:12.679
<v Speaker 3>what kind of medium do you use? Like do they

1002
00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:15.119
<v Speaker 3>use plaster pressure or dental stone? Like what do they

1003
00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:17.000
<v Speaker 3>give you any any pointers?

1004
00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:21.239
<v Speaker 4>So we use we use dental stone, you know, different

1005
00:51:21.320 --> 00:51:25.320
<v Speaker 4>kinds we've we've played with different kinds. Unfortunately we don't

1006
00:51:25.360 --> 00:51:28.199
<v Speaker 4>have snow here, so we don't get to play with that.

1007
00:51:28.320 --> 00:51:30.719
<v Speaker 4>I've only read about it and studied it, not I've

1008
00:51:30.760 --> 00:51:34.079
<v Speaker 4>not been able to actually do it in practice. But

1009
00:51:34.960 --> 00:51:37.320
<v Speaker 4>really and truly, what you have to do is you

1010
00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:39.559
<v Speaker 4>can't just carry it around with you and decide to

1011
00:51:39.559 --> 00:51:41.599
<v Speaker 4>do it on that you know that one time that

1012
00:51:41.639 --> 00:51:44.679
<v Speaker 4>it matters, You have to practice. You have to practice.

1013
00:51:45.199 --> 00:51:48.000
<v Speaker 4>And where I get a lot of my practice is

1014
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:52.719
<v Speaker 4>is when I'm teaching it, and not just teaching other csis.

1015
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:57.239
<v Speaker 4>But we have like Citizens Police Academy, we have teenage

1016
00:51:57.280 --> 00:52:01.920
<v Speaker 4>Citizens Police Academy and we'll make casts, pull fingerprints, and

1017
00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:03.840
<v Speaker 4>you know, the more you teach, more you talk about it,

1018
00:52:03.880 --> 00:52:07.480
<v Speaker 4>the better you get. But as far as the casting goes,

1019
00:52:08.119 --> 00:52:11.000
<v Speaker 4>I think one of the things that I like to

1020
00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:14.920
<v Speaker 4>do is I still like to put that metal frame

1021
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:17.519
<v Speaker 4>around my cast. And I know a lot of people

1022
00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:19.679
<v Speaker 4>don't like to do it, but I like to do

1023
00:52:19.719 --> 00:52:22.639
<v Speaker 4>it because it helps show the depth, you know, how

1024
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:27.719
<v Speaker 4>deep the the impression was in the ground. And you

1025
00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:29.960
<v Speaker 4>know a lot of people they just pour the material

1026
00:52:30.079 --> 00:52:32.760
<v Speaker 4>straight in, which you really shouldn't do pouring it straight

1027
00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:35.440
<v Speaker 4>in because that can damage you know, if there's any

1028
00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:38.159
<v Speaker 4>you know, dermal ridges or anything like that, that weight

1029
00:52:38.199 --> 00:52:40.920
<v Speaker 4>to that hitting it right off the bat can damage

1030
00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:41.360
<v Speaker 4>some of that.

1031
00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:43.800
<v Speaker 2>So what do you do?

1032
00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:46.320
<v Speaker 4>You pour it from the side you find the high

1033
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:50.039
<v Speaker 4>ground or believe it or not, if you're pouring it

1034
00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:53.119
<v Speaker 4>from the side, right on the edge, the weight coming

1035
00:52:53.199 --> 00:52:55.719
<v Speaker 4>out of that bag, coming from the side will help

1036
00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:58.880
<v Speaker 4>push it in. And once you get that first little

1037
00:52:58.920 --> 00:53:01.880
<v Speaker 4>bit into that section that it fell over the edge on,

1038
00:53:02.239 --> 00:53:04.239
<v Speaker 4>then you can start pouring in from right there and

1039
00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:06.480
<v Speaker 4>let it fill up. But you always start from the

1040
00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:10.079
<v Speaker 4>outside and let it go kind of pour in. You

1041
00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:12.880
<v Speaker 4>don't just pour it straight into the cat into the impression.

1042
00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:15.280
<v Speaker 3>What about really like muddy ground? Do you guys around

1043
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:16.599
<v Speaker 3>rock salt or anything like that.

1044
00:53:17.320 --> 00:53:20.760
<v Speaker 4>I've never used salt or anything like that. I did

1045
00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:23.519
<v Speaker 4>watch a guy try to use a straw and suck

1046
00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:27.639
<v Speaker 4>the water out because it started raining and he was

1047
00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:31.519
<v Speaker 4>dead set on getting that impression. He ended up getting it,

1048
00:53:31.639 --> 00:53:35.039
<v Speaker 4>but he built stuff put an umbrella around it. I

1049
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:37.440
<v Speaker 4>think it just became a I'm not giving up, you know,

1050
00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:40.800
<v Speaker 4>it's not gonna beat me kind of thing. But as

1051
00:53:40.880 --> 00:53:46.760
<v Speaker 4>far as super muddy prints, unfortunately in our line of work,

1052
00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:49.679
<v Speaker 4>we don't have the time. What we're gonna do then

1053
00:53:50.119 --> 00:53:52.360
<v Speaker 4>is we're going to photograph to the best of our

1054
00:53:52.400 --> 00:53:56.119
<v Speaker 4>ability and do everything like we did before, and there's

1055
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:58.719
<v Speaker 4>a chance we may have to leave it if it's

1056
00:53:58.760 --> 00:54:00.920
<v Speaker 4>too muddy and it's not going to take the material,

1057
00:54:01.159 --> 00:54:05.320
<v Speaker 4>it would just give way. Now, if it was personally

1058
00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:07.440
<v Speaker 4>and I was out and I found something that I

1059
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:12.119
<v Speaker 4>thought was a big foot impression, I'm camping there right.

1060
00:54:12.199 --> 00:54:15.559
<v Speaker 4>I'm not leaving the impression until and I'm gonna protect

1061
00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:18.599
<v Speaker 4>it because that's a piece of evidence. You can't let go.

1062
00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:20.239
<v Speaker 4>You know, I'm not leaving it.

1063
00:54:20.599 --> 00:54:23.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, you deal with what I've done. Whether there's standing

1064
00:54:23.760 --> 00:54:27.039
<v Speaker 2>water inside of a footprint, or it's super saturated soil

1065
00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:29.880
<v Speaker 2>or whatever is it. You just make the mix thicker,

1066
00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:32.199
<v Speaker 2>and it seems to it sucks a lot of the

1067
00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:34.679
<v Speaker 2>water out of the ground, or it uses the water

1068
00:54:34.760 --> 00:54:37.400
<v Speaker 2>that's standing in the impression and kind of adds that

1069
00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:39.119
<v Speaker 2>to the mix. So you can actually just make a

1070
00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:41.760
<v Speaker 2>pretty thick mix and depending on how much water is

1071
00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:45.440
<v Speaker 2>present anywhere from you know, like but I always shoot

1072
00:54:45.480 --> 00:54:50.440
<v Speaker 2>personally for like a pancake batter consistency when I do plaster,

1073
00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:52.519
<v Speaker 2>but you know, it can be thicker than that, even

1074
00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:54.920
<v Speaker 2>all the way up to almost like a just under

1075
00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:58.599
<v Speaker 2>a clay, and it'll I find that it'll actually absorb

1076
00:54:58.639 --> 00:55:00.719
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the water in the ground or the

1077
00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:03.639
<v Speaker 2>standing water and the impression. Am I doing that incorrect?

1078
00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:05.599
<v Speaker 2>Or would you have a different way to look at

1079
00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:06.840
<v Speaker 2>that problem with a solution?

1080
00:55:07.480 --> 00:55:09.400
<v Speaker 4>So when we were first talking about it, I thought

1081
00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:12.000
<v Speaker 4>I was thinking about like standing water and stuff like that,

1082
00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:16.119
<v Speaker 4>But if we're talking about just like a super saturated

1083
00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:19.079
<v Speaker 4>kind of thing. I've seen this method employed and it

1084
00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:23.239
<v Speaker 4>works fairly well. You take your your dental stone and

1085
00:55:23.280 --> 00:55:27.239
<v Speaker 4>you use like a flower sifter, and you just kind

1086
00:55:27.239 --> 00:55:31.480
<v Speaker 4>of lightly put like a small layer of the dental

1087
00:55:31.480 --> 00:55:34.639
<v Speaker 4>stone straight in without mixing. You just kind of, you know,

1088
00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:37.719
<v Speaker 4>like a just kind of sifted over the impression and

1089
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:39.360
<v Speaker 4>you let it sit for a second, and then you

1090
00:55:39.400 --> 00:55:41.199
<v Speaker 4>do it again and again until you get like that

1091
00:55:41.400 --> 00:55:45.199
<v Speaker 4>fine little layer and it can help harden that little bit.

1092
00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:48.320
<v Speaker 4>Then you can start pouring your regular cast, I mean

1093
00:55:48.360 --> 00:55:49.320
<v Speaker 4>your regular material.

1094
00:55:49.960 --> 00:55:53.440
<v Speaker 2>I was told you could do that same technique with snow,

1095
00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:56.119
<v Speaker 2>and I've done a little bit of experimenting with it.

1096
00:55:56.119 --> 00:55:58.599
<v Speaker 2>It seems to work, okay. I I don't think I'm

1097
00:55:58.599 --> 00:56:01.559
<v Speaker 2>doing it right, but it seems okay. But i'd like

1098
00:56:01.599 --> 00:56:04.000
<v Speaker 2>to I don't. I'm not a big fan of snow personally,

1099
00:56:04.159 --> 00:56:05.719
<v Speaker 2>but I do need to get out into the snow

1100
00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:07.960
<v Speaker 2>just to practice a little bit more with that technique.

1101
00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:11.760
<v Speaker 2>So beyond snow acts, would you recommend trying that?

1102
00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:12.639
<v Speaker 3>Is that?

1103
00:56:12.639 --> 00:56:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Am I on the right path with that one?

1104
00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:14.519
<v Speaker 3>Now?

1105
00:56:14.639 --> 00:56:17.480
<v Speaker 4>Remember I told you I'm I'm in Georgia. We don't

1106
00:56:17.519 --> 00:56:18.079
<v Speaker 4>have snow.

1107
00:56:18.519 --> 00:56:20.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's this white cold stuff. It's terrible. You would

1108
00:56:20.960 --> 00:56:21.280
<v Speaker 2>hate it.

1109
00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:24.920
<v Speaker 4>I've read, I've read about it. Now I've read about

1110
00:56:25.800 --> 00:56:28.159
<v Speaker 4>I think there's another method too, where it's like this

1111
00:56:28.239 --> 00:56:31.800
<v Speaker 4>weird sulfur mix that it's a powder that they sprinkle

1112
00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:35.679
<v Speaker 4>over it. I don't know exactly how it works, because again,

1113
00:56:36.440 --> 00:56:40.000
<v Speaker 4>not ever really a concern of mine. If it snows here,

1114
00:56:40.119 --> 00:56:42.960
<v Speaker 4>it's melted in an hour or so, unless it's you know,

1115
00:56:43.079 --> 00:56:45.559
<v Speaker 4>two of our major storms in the past ten years.

1116
00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:49.280
<v Speaker 3>Well, what about a hairspray, Like people always talk about hairspray.

1117
00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:52.119
<v Speaker 3>He's in that to secure the truck and then pour it.

1118
00:56:52.119 --> 00:56:54.480
<v Speaker 3>It sounds like that sounds like it damages it to me.

1119
00:56:55.159 --> 00:56:59.880
<v Speaker 4>So hairspray is an interesting thing because it can work

1120
00:57:00.039 --> 00:57:04.159
<v Speaker 4>wonderfleet or it can hurt you. I recently read a

1121
00:57:04.239 --> 00:57:08.039
<v Speaker 4>paper on using hair spray on two different types of sand.

1122
00:57:08.719 --> 00:57:12.440
<v Speaker 4>It was construction sand versus beach sand. I think the

1123
00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:14.760
<v Speaker 4>study was flawed because they didn't tell you what beach

1124
00:57:14.760 --> 00:57:17.119
<v Speaker 4>because you know, all beaches have like different types of sand.

1125
00:57:17.760 --> 00:57:22.039
<v Speaker 4>But they determined that the beach sand was better off

1126
00:57:22.119 --> 00:57:25.719
<v Speaker 4>without the hair spray, and the construction sand got better

1127
00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:28.639
<v Speaker 4>cast with the hairspray. So basically, what I learned from

1128
00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:31.719
<v Speaker 4>that was, if I'm going to use hairspray for my

1129
00:57:31.880 --> 00:57:35.000
<v Speaker 4>area or for a different type of soil that I've

1130
00:57:35.199 --> 00:57:39.800
<v Speaker 4>not used before, I may forego it until I've at

1131
00:57:39.880 --> 00:57:42.599
<v Speaker 4>least practiced on it and see what it will do

1132
00:57:42.760 --> 00:57:43.440
<v Speaker 4>to my soil.

1133
00:57:44.119 --> 00:57:45.800
<v Speaker 3>Would you hold it like would you hold it like

1134
00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:47.400
<v Speaker 3>far away and just kind of fog it like not?

1135
00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:49.639
<v Speaker 3>You wouldn't want it like a drug you'd want to

1136
00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:51.760
<v Speaker 3>be like subtle feet away, right.

1137
00:57:52.119 --> 00:57:54.559
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you wanted to just miss and kind of fall in.

1138
00:57:54.760 --> 00:57:57.519
<v Speaker 4>You don't. You don't want that air pressure disturbing anything

1139
00:57:57.559 --> 00:58:01.199
<v Speaker 4>within a cast. I also heard something the other day.

1140
00:58:01.239 --> 00:58:03.280
<v Speaker 4>I made a remark, and maybe you guys can answer

1141
00:58:03.360 --> 00:58:06.320
<v Speaker 4>this for me. I heard somebody talking about I made

1142
00:58:06.320 --> 00:58:08.519
<v Speaker 4>a remark about how come every time I see a

1143
00:58:08.559 --> 00:58:12.199
<v Speaker 4>cast or a picture of a foot impression that someone's

1144
00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:16.000
<v Speaker 4>saying is a bigfoot, it looks like somehow the foot

1145
00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:18.920
<v Speaker 4>removed all the material within it. You know, it's like

1146
00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:22.440
<v Speaker 4>all this beautiful grass, but then there's mud. And someone

1147
00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:25.800
<v Speaker 4>told me that they're removing all the material out of

1148
00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:28.920
<v Speaker 4>the impression so they can take pictures, and then that's

1149
00:58:29.000 --> 00:58:30.480
<v Speaker 4>kind of a thing. Is that a thing?

1150
00:58:31.159 --> 00:58:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, I personally would remove anything that isn't attached to

1151
00:58:34.480 --> 00:58:37.199
<v Speaker 2>the ground because it gets in the way of the impression,

1152
00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:39.519
<v Speaker 2>especially in photographs. I mean, if you're just going to

1153
00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:41.880
<v Speaker 2>cast it, it'll just engulf whatever. It's like whatever pine

1154
00:58:41.880 --> 00:58:44.000
<v Speaker 2>needles or a branch might be above it, and you

1155
00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:45.719
<v Speaker 2>can just break it off later and set the cast.

1156
00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:48.440
<v Speaker 2>But I would try to remove anything that isn't actually

1157
00:58:48.480 --> 00:58:51.840
<v Speaker 2>connected to the ground. If it shows any resistance when

1158
00:58:51.840 --> 00:58:53.559
<v Speaker 2>I might maybe tap it or something like that, I

1159
00:58:53.639 --> 00:58:56.559
<v Speaker 2>just leave it in. Personally, that's what I've ended up doing.

1160
00:58:57.400 --> 00:58:59.360
<v Speaker 4>I think I would do the same thing, but I

1161
00:58:59.400 --> 00:59:04.320
<v Speaker 4>would photo the way it was found first. That way,

1162
00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:07.159
<v Speaker 4>it doesn't look like I found it the way you know,

1163
00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:08.679
<v Speaker 4>found it with all that stuff out of it.

1164
00:59:09.239 --> 00:59:11.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And actually it's interesting that you even said that,

1165
00:59:11.159 --> 00:59:14.320
<v Speaker 2>because I was out yesterday. I went yesterday and the

1166
00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:16.280
<v Speaker 2>day before to one of my spots because there's some

1167
00:59:16.320 --> 00:59:18.880
<v Speaker 2>tracks up on the hill right now, and I found

1168
00:59:19.559 --> 00:59:21.519
<v Speaker 2>in the drainage dish on the side of the road.

1169
00:59:21.800 --> 00:59:23.599
<v Speaker 2>And I'll even Texas to you as i'm speaking to you,

1170
00:59:23.760 --> 00:59:26.119
<v Speaker 2>but I on the side of the road a little

1171
00:59:26.199 --> 00:59:27.880
<v Speaker 2>mark there they go that kind of looks like a print.

1172
00:59:27.880 --> 00:59:30.800
<v Speaker 2>I thought that was interesting, and and I was thinking, well,

1173
00:59:30.800 --> 00:59:34.199
<v Speaker 2>that seems odd because all the duff has is not there,

1174
00:59:34.280 --> 00:59:37.280
<v Speaker 2>but it's everywhere else in the in the ditch. It's

1175
00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:39.480
<v Speaker 2>probably not a track, but I'm going to take a

1176
00:59:39.519 --> 00:59:41.760
<v Speaker 2>picture of it anyway, just to document it, et cetera.

1177
00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:45.079
<v Speaker 2>And then I brought that I found that on Monday,

1178
00:59:45.480 --> 00:59:49.119
<v Speaker 2>today's Wednesday. In case everybody's listening here, in case anybody's listening.

1179
00:59:49.119 --> 00:59:52.760
<v Speaker 2>It's Wednesday, so I forget people listen at all. But

1180
00:59:53.039 --> 00:59:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Monday I found the track right, and I said, oh,

1181
00:59:54.840 --> 00:59:56.559
<v Speaker 2>that's cool. I took a picture of it. And so

1182
00:59:56.599 --> 00:59:58.039
<v Speaker 2>when I send you the picture and I'll give this

1183
00:59:58.039 --> 00:59:59.440
<v Speaker 2>the map prode as well, you can put it on

1184
00:59:59.559 --> 01:00:04.679
<v Speaker 2>social media or something like that. I put the scale item.

1185
01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:06.800
<v Speaker 2>I lined it up with the edge of what I

1186
01:00:06.840 --> 01:00:09.639
<v Speaker 2>interpreted as a possible print. But I didn't really understand. Well,

1187
01:00:09.639 --> 01:00:12.360
<v Speaker 2>maybe maybe the foot was wet and removed the duff

1188
01:00:12.400 --> 01:00:14.840
<v Speaker 2>at the time or whatever. So the next day I

1189
01:00:14.840 --> 01:00:17.920
<v Speaker 2>went back with Nico, who has been a guest in

1190
01:00:17.920 --> 01:00:19.840
<v Speaker 2>the program. He's the manager at the nd OFBC and

1191
01:00:19.840 --> 01:00:21.440
<v Speaker 2>we're all friends here, but he knows who Nico is.

1192
01:00:22.280 --> 01:00:26.199
<v Speaker 2>Nico has undergone, you know, training on tracking and all

1193
01:00:26.199 --> 01:00:28.000
<v Speaker 2>that sort of stuff, so he has a different eye.

1194
01:00:28.079 --> 01:00:30.480
<v Speaker 2>You know. I'm just a hobbyist that enjoys it. He's

1195
01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:33.079
<v Speaker 2>been trained. When I said, hey, Nico, look at this

1196
01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:36.159
<v Speaker 2>suppression that might be a footprint. I think that's interesting.

1197
01:00:36.360 --> 01:00:38.360
<v Speaker 2>And he got down on the ground and he goes, oh, yeah,

1198
01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:40.960
<v Speaker 2>look look at the toes. And what I didn't see

1199
01:00:40.960 --> 01:00:43.039
<v Speaker 2>the toes? So I went down on the ground, and

1200
01:00:43.159 --> 01:00:47.199
<v Speaker 2>sure enough, in front of this bear patch on the ground,

1201
01:00:47.599 --> 01:00:50.719
<v Speaker 2>you could see plain as day four to five toes

1202
01:00:50.920 --> 01:00:56.159
<v Speaker 2>impressed into the duff itself. And so I'm now facing

1203
01:00:56.199 --> 01:00:59.199
<v Speaker 2>this this is not a problem, but this mystery. Okay, Well,

1204
01:00:59.440 --> 01:01:02.440
<v Speaker 2>what were the circumstances when the sasquatch stepped there and

1205
01:01:02.480 --> 01:01:04.360
<v Speaker 2>there was another print up on the hill. It wasn't

1206
01:01:04.400 --> 01:01:08.880
<v Speaker 2>just an isolated thing, right, you know. So I'm looking

1207
01:01:08.960 --> 01:01:12.159
<v Speaker 2>at this situation now that since sasquatches do not walk

1208
01:01:12.360 --> 01:01:14.920
<v Speaker 2>in the same way that humans do. You know, they

1209
01:01:14.960 --> 01:01:18.079
<v Speaker 2>walk by pevidly and you know, superficially the same, but

1210
01:01:18.119 --> 01:01:20.800
<v Speaker 2>they're very very different gates and actually the inner the

1211
01:01:21.280 --> 01:01:23.960
<v Speaker 2>dynamics and the interaction between their feet and the ground

1212
01:01:23.960 --> 01:01:28.320
<v Speaker 2>are dramatically different than in humans. They push off, they

1213
01:01:28.320 --> 01:01:31.360
<v Speaker 2>don't really use their toes to push off to the

1214
01:01:31.639 --> 01:01:34.440
<v Speaker 2>same extent as humans do. And I see this again

1215
01:01:34.519 --> 01:01:37.599
<v Speaker 2>and again and again when I'm looking at footprints in

1216
01:01:37.719 --> 01:01:40.760
<v Speaker 2>the ground itself, that all the pressure is on the

1217
01:01:40.800 --> 01:01:45.199
<v Speaker 2>planter surface, it's not on the toes itself. And I

1218
01:01:45.239 --> 01:01:47.360
<v Speaker 2>think this is one of those cases that the pressure

1219
01:01:47.639 --> 01:01:49.599
<v Speaker 2>or the circumstances at the time, maybe it was wet,

1220
01:01:49.639 --> 01:01:51.840
<v Speaker 2>maybe there's water flowing in the ditch. I don't know

1221
01:01:51.880 --> 01:01:54.719
<v Speaker 2>when this impression was made, right, So there's something about

1222
01:01:54.760 --> 01:01:58.119
<v Speaker 2>the circumstances in which this impression was put down that

1223
01:01:58.360 --> 01:02:01.800
<v Speaker 2>the toes impressed made the lines that look like, you know,

1224
01:02:01.840 --> 01:02:03.960
<v Speaker 2>fingers or toes or whatever, but the rest of the

1225
01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:07.559
<v Speaker 2>surface of the foot apparently picked up what duff there was,

1226
01:02:08.159 --> 01:02:11.559
<v Speaker 2>or made it loose enough that it washed away or something.

1227
01:02:11.639 --> 01:02:14.039
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what I'm looking at here, but it's

1228
01:02:14.079 --> 01:02:17.880
<v Speaker 2>an interesting conundrum for me because when I went back

1229
01:02:18.039 --> 01:02:19.960
<v Speaker 2>with Nico and looked at it, I mean, it was

1230
01:02:20.239 --> 01:02:23.320
<v Speaker 2>plain as day that was a Sasquatch print. Thirteen to

1231
01:02:23.360 --> 01:02:26.480
<v Speaker 2>fourteen inches long, four to five toes are clearly visible.

1232
01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:29.760
<v Speaker 2>That they are a little hard to see in the photograph,

1233
01:02:30.039 --> 01:02:33.679
<v Speaker 2>but they were absolutely there, absolutely there, And I was

1234
01:02:33.719 --> 01:02:35.320
<v Speaker 2>astonished when I looked at it.

1235
01:02:35.559 --> 01:02:38.280
<v Speaker 4>Well, it sounds like you analyzed it fairly well. I mean,

1236
01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:41.239
<v Speaker 4>I see the same thing on cars all the time.

1237
01:02:41.360 --> 01:02:43.119
<v Speaker 4>One of the worst things that happens to me is

1238
01:02:43.119 --> 01:02:45.360
<v Speaker 4>when they tell me to go process a car that

1239
01:02:45.480 --> 01:02:47.400
<v Speaker 4>was used in a crime and I walk into the

1240
01:02:47.440 --> 01:02:50.599
<v Speaker 4>evidence bay and I see the dang thing covered in

1241
01:02:50.639 --> 01:02:54.320
<v Speaker 4>dirt and my first thought is, oh, man, because they're like, look,

1242
01:02:54.360 --> 01:02:58.239
<v Speaker 4>there's fingerprints. I'm like, no, that's finger marks. That's where

1243
01:02:58.760 --> 01:03:01.119
<v Speaker 4>that's where I hand touched the dirt and their oily

1244
01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:04.199
<v Speaker 4>stuff lifted the dirt right off. There's there's nothing here.

1245
01:03:04.960 --> 01:03:07.800
<v Speaker 4>But it sounds like you pretty much have already nailed

1246
01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:08.639
<v Speaker 4>it right on.

1247
01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:10.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was.

1248
01:03:10.199 --> 01:03:12.119
<v Speaker 2>It was really interesting to me. So that is one

1249
01:03:12.119 --> 01:03:14.960
<v Speaker 2>of these circumstances where the foot actually did remove a

1250
01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:16.960
<v Speaker 2>lot of the stuff in the ground. And so I'm

1251
01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:19.199
<v Speaker 2>actually looking a little more closely because back in the

1252
01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:21.960
<v Speaker 2>day it's like, well, why would there be no stuff there,

1253
01:03:21.960 --> 01:03:25.719
<v Speaker 2>but there's stuff everywhere else, you know, kind of the

1254
01:03:25.760 --> 01:03:27.800
<v Speaker 2>issue that you were just mentioning there. I mean, of course,

1255
01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:30.199
<v Speaker 2>and I of course remove a lot of the debris

1256
01:03:30.199 --> 01:03:33.519
<v Speaker 2>before I cast it if it's removable without disturbing the soil.

1257
01:03:34.159 --> 01:03:36.960
<v Speaker 2>But here we are, like, we're looking at a case

1258
01:03:37.119 --> 01:03:40.039
<v Speaker 2>in the ground where a sasquatch stepped there and somehow

1259
01:03:40.159 --> 01:03:43.320
<v Speaker 2>removed the duff with his feet, not purposefully, but just

1260
01:03:44.239 --> 01:03:46.599
<v Speaker 2>as an interaction between the ground and the surface of

1261
01:03:46.639 --> 01:03:49.920
<v Speaker 2>the foot. So that's another area that I apparently need

1262
01:03:49.960 --> 01:03:53.000
<v Speaker 2>to explore because it's happening. I mean I saw in

1263
01:03:53.039 --> 01:03:55.599
<v Speaker 2>the ground with my own eyes. Hopefully I'll take Bobo

1264
01:03:55.679 --> 01:03:57.239
<v Speaker 2>up there tomorrow or the next day to show him

1265
01:03:57.239 --> 01:03:58.760
<v Speaker 2>the print in the ground as well before the rain

1266
01:03:58.800 --> 01:03:59.159
<v Speaker 2>takes it.

1267
01:03:59.760 --> 01:04:02.960
<v Speaker 4>So I just got I just got that picture, and

1268
01:04:03.280 --> 01:04:04.480
<v Speaker 4>I can see those toes.

1269
01:04:05.239 --> 01:04:06.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I didn't when I first looked at it because

1270
01:04:07.039 --> 01:04:10.360
<v Speaker 2>I was so tunnel visioned on the on the bare

1271
01:04:10.360 --> 01:04:10.920
<v Speaker 2>dirt part.

1272
01:04:11.000 --> 01:04:12.920
<v Speaker 4>You know, well, I'll be honest with you, I wouldn't

1273
01:04:12.920 --> 01:04:15.320
<v Speaker 4>have seen them had you not said anything about it.

1274
01:04:15.679 --> 01:04:17.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Luckily I got a scan of it. I can't

1275
01:04:17.480 --> 01:04:20.159
<v Speaker 2>do a cast because yesterday when I was poking at

1276
01:04:20.159 --> 01:04:22.280
<v Speaker 2>it and stuff that all that duff around it is

1277
01:04:22.480 --> 01:04:25.480
<v Speaker 2>very light and fluffy. I don't see how a cast

1278
01:04:25.599 --> 01:04:29.480
<v Speaker 2>could be could record that the unfortunately, So wow, all.

1279
01:04:29.480 --> 01:04:31.679
<v Speaker 4>Right, well that's one of those things that comes across

1280
01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:34.599
<v Speaker 4>and I go, interesting, Well.

1281
01:04:34.440 --> 01:04:36.760
<v Speaker 2>I love that you're actually getting out there, because again,

1282
01:04:37.400 --> 01:04:39.400
<v Speaker 2>looking back six or eight months whenever that was when

1283
01:04:39.400 --> 01:04:42.320
<v Speaker 2>you reached out, you're basically saying, I think they might

1284
01:04:42.360 --> 01:04:44.679
<v Speaker 2>be real, but I want your help to convince me

1285
01:04:44.800 --> 01:04:46.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of, you know. So, Well, now you're going out

1286
01:04:46.760 --> 01:04:49.119
<v Speaker 2>in the woods, and you've taken another large step in

1287
01:04:49.159 --> 01:04:51.800
<v Speaker 2>that direction. I think that's just fantastic as far as

1288
01:04:52.000 --> 01:04:55.400
<v Speaker 2>keeping an open mind and being open to whatever comes next,

1289
01:04:55.719 --> 01:04:58.400
<v Speaker 2>because I've told you several times and you don't need

1290
01:04:58.400 --> 01:05:01.440
<v Speaker 2>to believe me at all. But they're real, They're actually there,

1291
01:05:01.519 --> 01:05:03.280
<v Speaker 2>and that's probably one of the weirdest things about it,

1292
01:05:03.400 --> 01:05:05.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, the weirdest thing about the species is that

1293
01:05:05.840 --> 01:05:07.039
<v Speaker 2>they're actually there.

1294
01:05:07.760 --> 01:05:09.440
<v Speaker 4>I felt like I could trust you.

1295
01:05:10.400 --> 01:05:13.159
<v Speaker 2>I don't lie. I'm wrong a lot, but I don't lie.

1296
01:05:13.039 --> 01:05:15.800
<v Speaker 4>But you were I do believe that. I do believe

1297
01:05:15.800 --> 01:05:18.480
<v Speaker 4>that wholeheartedly. But you're You're also kind enough to start

1298
01:05:18.519 --> 01:05:22.159
<v Speaker 4>sending me things. And once that happened, it became a

1299
01:05:22.880 --> 01:05:25.639
<v Speaker 4>I don't know that I can wait for more, you know,

1300
01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:28.760
<v Speaker 4>because you said some stuff really fast, but then it

1301
01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:31.480
<v Speaker 4>slowed down because you're so busy. And then I was like, well,

1302
01:05:31.519 --> 01:05:34.039
<v Speaker 4>I don't know that I can wait any longer. I

1303
01:05:34.079 --> 01:05:36.320
<v Speaker 4>gotta go out and see if I can find myself.

1304
01:05:37.719 --> 01:05:41.639
<v Speaker 2>Pusher. Yeah, a pusher of the Bigfoot drug right exactly.

1305
01:05:43.599 --> 01:05:45.400
<v Speaker 2>I gave you a couple of free samples, and I

1306
01:05:45.480 --> 01:05:47.960
<v Speaker 2>was going to keep coming back from calling please more,

1307
01:05:48.119 --> 01:05:48.800
<v Speaker 2>Please more.

1308
01:05:49.400 --> 01:05:50.840
<v Speaker 4>That's pretty much what happened.

1309
01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, you know, I'll make you a couple of copies.

1310
01:05:54.039 --> 01:05:56.039
<v Speaker 2>I've got some pretty good molds of some of those

1311
01:05:56.039 --> 01:05:58.559
<v Speaker 2>early Freeman casts. I'd love your take on that stuff.

1312
01:05:59.079 --> 01:06:01.239
<v Speaker 2>I have a couple of the original Freeman's in my

1313
01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:03.079
<v Speaker 2>possession now. Of course, the rest of them will be

1314
01:06:03.079 --> 01:06:04.960
<v Speaker 2>coming in the next year or so when doctor Meltrim

1315
01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:08.320
<v Speaker 2>retires because of an arrangement we made with the Freeman's

1316
01:06:08.400 --> 01:06:11.480
<v Speaker 2>estate there, they're gonna become living at the museum itself,

1317
01:06:11.559 --> 01:06:13.039
<v Speaker 2>so hopefully you can get out to the West Coast

1318
01:06:13.039 --> 01:06:14.719
<v Speaker 2>and check them out in person. But I've got to

1319
01:06:14.760 --> 01:06:18.239
<v Speaker 2>make some really high quality molds of the originals because

1320
01:06:18.280 --> 01:06:21.000
<v Speaker 2>most of my Frameman stuff with therms or second gens,

1321
01:06:21.119 --> 01:06:23.079
<v Speaker 2>or I have the first gens, but there's some second

1322
01:06:23.119 --> 01:06:25.400
<v Speaker 2>you know. If I can make molds like my quality,

1323
01:06:25.599 --> 01:06:28.440
<v Speaker 2>like high quality, Cliff quality molds of the originals, I

1324
01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:30.639
<v Speaker 2>think I can preserve a lot of the details, at

1325
01:06:30.719 --> 01:06:32.440
<v Speaker 2>least until I can get you on the West coast here,

1326
01:06:32.440 --> 01:06:35.119
<v Speaker 2>you know. And i'd love your take on that stuff,

1327
01:06:35.159 --> 01:06:38.000
<v Speaker 2>because every time I've shared something with you, you have

1328
01:06:38.440 --> 01:06:41.840
<v Speaker 2>far surpassed my expectations as far as your response. You know,

1329
01:06:41.880 --> 01:06:43.199
<v Speaker 2>I gave you a cast, Hey, what do you think

1330
01:06:43.239 --> 01:06:45.840
<v Speaker 2>of this. I expected an email going, oh, that's pretty interesting,

1331
01:06:45.960 --> 01:06:48.159
<v Speaker 2>but no, you gave me like a fourteen page report

1332
01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:51.960
<v Speaker 2>with photographs and analysis and citations, and it was I

1333
01:06:52.039 --> 01:06:54.480
<v Speaker 2>was astonished. I go, oh, crap, this guy's the like.

1334
01:06:54.559 --> 01:06:56.559
<v Speaker 2>Not that I knew you're the real deal, but this

1335
01:06:56.599 --> 01:06:59.079
<v Speaker 2>guy's into it right on because.

1336
01:06:59.559 --> 01:07:00.559
<v Speaker 3>You called it all excited.

1337
01:07:00.599 --> 01:07:04.039
<v Speaker 2>You're like, you discuss George as he's a bass man.

1338
01:07:04.440 --> 01:07:06.679
<v Speaker 2>Because the only reason I'm good at all is because

1339
01:07:06.679 --> 01:07:08.960
<v Speaker 2>I surround myself with people who know more than me.

1340
01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:14.320
<v Speaker 2>You know, you're welcome, Bobo, but I am thrilled to

1341
01:07:14.320 --> 01:07:16.559
<v Speaker 2>have you on the team, so to speak, and anything

1342
01:07:16.599 --> 01:07:18.760
<v Speaker 2>I get, I just want to know what you think,

1343
01:07:19.480 --> 01:07:23.760
<v Speaker 2>because you know, if I'm wrong, Okay, I'm wrong, I'm

1344
01:07:23.840 --> 01:07:26.599
<v Speaker 2>not necessarily a proud person. I was wrong about the

1345
01:07:26.639 --> 01:07:29.719
<v Speaker 2>London cast on National TV, for example. You know, but

1346
01:07:29.920 --> 01:07:32.840
<v Speaker 2>the important thing about all this stuff is the truth.

1347
01:07:33.480 --> 01:07:37.079
<v Speaker 2>That's what's important about this Because sasquatches, I know, I'm

1348
01:07:37.079 --> 01:07:41.239
<v Speaker 2>confident sasquatches are real animals, and if they are real,

1349
01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:44.079
<v Speaker 2>if they are truly there as I'm betting my entire

1350
01:07:44.119 --> 01:07:47.320
<v Speaker 2>life on the truth. Can withstand the scrutiny, and I

1351
01:07:47.360 --> 01:07:49.960
<v Speaker 2>want the best eyes in the business, looking at this,

1352
01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:54.480
<v Speaker 2>looking hard at this, because the truth can always withstand

1353
01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:55.079
<v Speaker 2>the scrutiny.

1354
01:07:55.400 --> 01:07:57.079
<v Speaker 3>You see, it's shadowing a lot of a lot of

1355
01:07:57.119 --> 01:07:58.920
<v Speaker 3>perceptions and dreams and hopes.

1356
01:07:59.599 --> 01:08:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, all it takes is one man.

1357
01:08:01.480 --> 01:08:04.679
<v Speaker 4>All it takes is one yes, exactly, That's what I'm hoping.

1358
01:08:04.719 --> 01:08:05.599
<v Speaker 4>That's what I'm hoping.

1359
01:08:06.159 --> 01:08:08.039
<v Speaker 2>Well, well, David, thank you so much for coming on

1360
01:08:08.079 --> 01:08:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Bigfoot and Beyond with me and this guy right right

1361
01:08:10.960 --> 01:08:14.719
<v Speaker 2>next to me in my house. Really appreciate your expertise,

1362
01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:18.880
<v Speaker 2>and I'm also very appreciative of you kind of waiting

1363
01:08:18.920 --> 01:08:22.319
<v Speaker 2>into the subject. In five years, you and I can

1364
01:08:22.359 --> 01:08:24.840
<v Speaker 2>have a conversation and one of the things I believe,

1365
01:08:24.920 --> 01:08:26.840
<v Speaker 2>I predict you will say to me is that this

1366
01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:30.439
<v Speaker 2>was a bigger a bigger quagmire, a bigger pool, a

1367
01:08:30.479 --> 01:08:35.159
<v Speaker 2>bigger subject in general than you ever dreamt. And and

1368
01:08:35.479 --> 01:08:37.399
<v Speaker 2>but it's so intriguing that it's going to keep you

1369
01:08:37.439 --> 01:08:39.079
<v Speaker 2>going for five years. I know we're going to have

1370
01:08:39.079 --> 01:08:43.359
<v Speaker 2>that conversation to some degree on your reflections, because once

1371
01:08:43.439 --> 01:08:46.159
<v Speaker 2>the Bigfoot thing grabs hold, it doesn't let go. So

1372
01:08:46.640 --> 01:08:48.760
<v Speaker 2>like it or not, Man Gobakaba, hey, you are.

1373
01:08:48.680 --> 01:08:55.560
<v Speaker 4>One of us. I honestly think that that's beginning to

1374
01:08:55.600 --> 01:08:59.119
<v Speaker 4>happen already. I love I love I love puzzle. I

1375
01:08:59.159 --> 01:09:04.359
<v Speaker 4>love puzzles, and this is one gigantic puzzle that has

1376
01:09:04.399 --> 01:09:07.319
<v Speaker 4>so many different pieces and go in so many different directions.

1377
01:09:07.560 --> 01:09:09.640
<v Speaker 4>I just want to thank you guys for at least

1378
01:09:09.720 --> 01:09:11.880
<v Speaker 4>being a part of it and helping me begin it.

1379
01:09:12.079 --> 01:09:14.039
<v Speaker 3>So thank you, Thank you man. We're so glad to

1380
01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:16.399
<v Speaker 3>get people like we're dying for people like you to

1381
01:09:16.399 --> 01:09:20.359
<v Speaker 3>get involved more. You know, it's great. We appreciate you.

1382
01:09:20.399 --> 01:09:22.119
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much, and thank you for joining us

1383
01:09:22.159 --> 01:09:22.640
<v Speaker 3>to see me.

1384
01:09:23.159 --> 01:09:24.720
<v Speaker 4>Thank you. I appreciate it.

1385
01:09:24.920 --> 01:09:27.079
<v Speaker 2>And listeners out there, you got to check out this

1386
01:09:27.159 --> 01:09:32.079
<v Speaker 2>YouTube page. It's called Bigfoot Forensics, done by our guests here.

1387
01:09:32.199 --> 01:09:36.239
<v Speaker 2>David's again fantastic stuff, like literally probably one of the

1388
01:09:36.279 --> 01:09:40.000
<v Speaker 2>best YouTube channels out there. David just started this just

1389
01:09:40.039 --> 01:09:41.960
<v Speaker 2>a few months ago. I think there's four or five

1390
01:09:42.039 --> 01:09:45.640
<v Speaker 2>six episodes out at this point. They are fantastic. You

1391
01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:49.399
<v Speaker 2>gotta check it out Bigfoot Forensics on YouTube. Just just

1392
01:09:49.399 --> 01:09:50.840
<v Speaker 2>click that link in the show notes to bring you

1393
01:09:50.920 --> 01:09:54.239
<v Speaker 2>right there and help David out here. But help yourself

1394
01:09:54.279 --> 01:09:56.640
<v Speaker 2>out by subscribing today.

1395
01:09:56.439 --> 01:09:58.399
<v Speaker 3>And you can say you were there at the beginning,

1396
01:09:58.399 --> 01:10:00.640
<v Speaker 3>because there's still like under one hundred likes on most

1397
01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:02.439
<v Speaker 3>of them, so you could be double digits in the

1398
01:10:02.479 --> 01:10:06.239
<v Speaker 3>life count. So you're a pioneer listener if you get

1399
01:10:06.239 --> 01:10:09.880
<v Speaker 3>in on it now. So tune into that channel. It's good,

1400
01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:14.279
<v Speaker 3>it's great, and thank you David, and until next week,

1401
01:10:14.439 --> 01:10:17.159
<v Speaker 3>you're out there, keep it Squatchy.

1402
01:10:21.439 --> 01:10:24.720
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.

1403
01:10:25.079 --> 01:10:27.359
<v Speaker 2>If you liked what you heard, please rate and review

1404
01:10:27.439 --> 01:10:30.760
<v Speaker 2>us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you

1405
01:10:30.800 --> 01:10:34.039
<v Speaker 2>get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram

1406
01:10:34.079 --> 01:10:37.600
<v Speaker 2>at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on

1407
01:10:37.640 --> 01:10:41.319
<v Speaker 2>Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond that's an N in the middle,

1408
01:10:41.720 --> 01:10:44.760
<v Speaker 2>and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag

1409
01:10:44.960 --> 01:10:46.760
<v Speaker 2>Bigfoot and Beyond