1 00:00:18,359 --> 00:00:20,839 Speaker 1: And we are back with another edition of the Federalist 2 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,440 Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle, Senior Elections correspondent at the 3 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:29,079 Federalist and your experience shirpa on today's quest for Knowledge. 4 00:00:29,519 --> 00:00:32,159 As always, you can email the show at radio at 5 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,399 the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, 6 00:00:37,799 --> 00:00:40,719 make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcast, and 7 00:00:40,799 --> 00:00:44,240 of course to the premium version of our website as well. 8 00:00:44,759 --> 00:00:48,159 Our guest today is Aiden Grogan, a writer and history 9 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,399 PhD student at Liberty University and a Young Voices contributor. 10 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,640 His latest op ed examines why the left's hostility toward 11 00:00:56,759 --> 00:01:02,960 Christianity contradicts their fight against rssion and injustice. Aiden, thank 12 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:04,959 you so much for joining us in this edition of 13 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:06,000 the Federalist Radio Hour. 14 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 2: Thank you glad to be here. 15 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:14,799 Speaker 1: Yeah. In fact, this was published recently in Real Clear Religion, 16 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,640 I believe, and it really does strike at the heart 17 00:01:18,799 --> 00:01:23,640 of the argument for a long time that the left 18 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:28,840 talks about tolerance, the left talks about coexisting, but has 19 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,959 a hard time with both when it comes to conservatives 20 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,640 and conservative policy. And you start from the vantage point 21 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:44,159 of Bernie Sanders, maybe identified as the ultimate leftist in America. 22 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:50,040 There's so many, but Bernie Sanders and is fighting oligarchy 23 00:01:50,159 --> 00:01:53,959 tour and where he ended up in Kenosha, Wisconsin, not 24 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,319 just what he said, but also the company he kept. 25 00:01:57,359 --> 00:02:00,879 Start us from that vantage point, if you will. 26 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: Yes, Bernie Sanders is on this fighting oligarchy tour around 27 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,919 the US. But in Kenosha, Wisconsin, at his rally he 28 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:15,120 hosted the transgender singer of the band Against Me, who 29 00:02:15,199 --> 00:02:21,240 performed a very blasphemous song about Christianity. To put it simply, 30 00:02:21,319 --> 00:02:24,280 it's about God's genitals. I won't get into the lyrics. 31 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,719 Speaker 1: Awful, just absolutely author as profane as you can possibly imagine. 32 00:02:30,159 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, And the hypocrisy is that Bernie Sanders message relies 33 00:02:35,159 --> 00:02:41,120 upon Christian moral concepts and assumptions, particularly in his rebuke 34 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,599 of the greed of the rich. Oftentimes, when he talks 35 00:02:44,599 --> 00:02:47,439 about the one percent hoarding whatever percentage of the wealth, 36 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:52,400 he describes the immorality of this. So he perhaps doesn't 37 00:02:52,439 --> 00:02:56,560 even realize that he's really drawing on these Christian moral 38 00:02:56,719 --> 00:03:00,080 concepts for so much of his political platform. Yet he 39 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,680 hosts a musician at one of his rallies to perform 40 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:09,400 this extremely vulgar and offensive song about the Christian faith. 41 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:17,400 So if the Left truly cares about fighting oppression and 42 00:03:17,479 --> 00:03:21,520 intolerance and injustice, then they need to take a clear 43 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,840 look at what really is informing these beliefs. What are 44 00:03:25,879 --> 00:03:30,280 the moral foundations of these beliefs. Ultimately, if they reject 45 00:03:30,439 --> 00:03:37,280 the Christian moral norms of Western civilization, which provide us 46 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,560 the means to rebuke those who are in power and 47 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:47,719 engaged in oppression or in justice, then ultimately we have 48 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:49,199 no firm ground to stand on. 49 00:03:49,719 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: Well, the left claims it is for the persecuted, which 50 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,960 is a oftentimes a big leap. And you note in 51 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,520 your piece Christianity is the most persecuted religion in the world, 52 00:04:00,639 --> 00:04:03,159 yet it is the only religion that can be openly 53 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:08,000 mocked and disparaged in the US without consequences. I think 54 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,759 that is a great point, if you wouldn't mind expand 55 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:12,280 upon that. 56 00:04:13,199 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 2: Absolutely, the left still views Christianity as the establishment. It's 57 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,360 part of the patriarchal tyranny of Western civilization which they're 58 00:04:22,399 --> 00:04:29,160 trying to tear down. But simultaneously, when they make these arguments, 59 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:33,319 they're relying on many of the same Christian assumptions. I 60 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,680 think they just have a problem with the Christian moral 61 00:04:36,759 --> 00:04:41,279 prohibitions against certain behaviors that the left champions, particularly the 62 00:04:41,439 --> 00:04:45,600 LGBT lifestyle or issues surrounding abortion. They don't really have 63 00:04:45,639 --> 00:04:48,879 a problem with helping the poor or the downtrod. But 64 00:04:49,399 --> 00:04:55,120 Christianity calls you to a much higher calling than simply 65 00:04:55,319 --> 00:04:57,399 just helping the poor or the downtrod. And you also 66 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,800 have to conduct yourself in a certain way, which which 67 00:05:00,879 --> 00:05:05,519 the left is not particularly on board with these days. 68 00:05:06,079 --> 00:05:09,519 Speaker 1: You know, there's hypocrisy in all channels. Let's not fool ourselves. 69 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,240 There's hypocrisy within all of us. We're not perfect. If 70 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,720 we're Christians, we understand that. That's core, it's fundamental to 71 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,120 our faith, to our belief. There was there was one 72 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:24,000 man who was perfect for us Christians, and we aspire 73 00:05:24,079 --> 00:05:28,560 to be like that. And that that man, the Son 74 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:33,360 of God, called upon us, calls upon us daily to 75 00:05:33,519 --> 00:05:38,199 do what is right. But does the son of Man, 76 00:05:38,759 --> 00:05:45,959 the center of Christianity, call upon the government to do 77 00:05:46,759 --> 00:05:49,959 that or is it simply the individual. 78 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 2: Well, you'll know this throughout the Gospels that Jesus was 79 00:05:55,079 --> 00:05:59,279 not a political figure. He was not a political revolutionary. 80 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,240 Many of the Jews in that time expected him to 81 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,560 be this warrior who was going to overthrow Rome. But 82 00:06:07,639 --> 00:06:10,160 he says, render under Caesar what is Caesar's and to 83 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:14,399 God what is God's. So Jesus calls the individual to 84 00:06:14,759 --> 00:06:19,839 live a holy and righteous life in accordance with what 85 00:06:19,879 --> 00:06:23,680 God truly calls us for. He does not call us 86 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:28,439 to be political revolutionaries. For Christians, we understand that there 87 00:06:28,519 --> 00:06:31,360 is not going to be some earthly utopia. We're not 88 00:06:31,399 --> 00:06:33,560 going to solve all of our problems or most of 89 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,480 our problems through government. We are ultimately hopeful for a 90 00:06:36,519 --> 00:06:38,319 better world that is to come. 91 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,759 Speaker 1: You think the left has a Barabbas complex. 92 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:49,759 Speaker 2: Absolutely, the entire revolutionary tradition, going back to Rousseau, has 93 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:54,720 this Barrabas complex. They really do believe that this world 94 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:59,120 is all that there is, and that the problems in 95 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,279 the world are due to flawed institutions rather than flaws 96 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,079 in the human heart, which is prone to malevolence and 97 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:11,040 greed and all sorts of depravity. So the left truly 98 00:07:11,079 --> 00:07:16,800 believes that if you reorganize society along lines that are 99 00:07:17,279 --> 00:07:22,519 conducive to equity and justice, then we can bring about 100 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,360 a much better world, perhaps even a utopia. 101 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: Let's cite some of the examples of the disconnect, the 102 00:07:30,199 --> 00:07:36,959 cognitive dissonance, if you will. Elon Musk the left and 103 00:07:37,079 --> 00:07:41,959 Elon Musk the left of course loved Elon Musk and 104 00:07:42,079 --> 00:07:47,720 his electric vehicles, his commitment to you know, in essence, 105 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:52,160 a good portion of the climate change agenda absolutely love 106 00:07:52,279 --> 00:07:56,839 this man until he became a close advisor and confidant 107 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:02,519 to Donald Trump. Not all do they have a problem 108 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,920 with Elon Musk. Apparently some of them have a big 109 00:08:05,959 --> 00:08:10,360 problem now with his teslas, as evidenced by the fire 110 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,959 bombings and destructions of dealerships and teslas and charging stations. 111 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:17,759 How did we get here? Aiden, How did we get 112 00:08:17,839 --> 00:08:23,120 here in the American left when you have this absolute 113 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:24,639 disconnect that's going on. 114 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 2: Well, the American left has adopted a kind of secular religion, 115 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:34,960 be it wokeness or progressivism, and when someone steps outside 116 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:41,480 of the narrow confines of that ideological worldview, they become 117 00:08:41,759 --> 00:08:45,200 a heretic. So Elon Musk is a heretic. And also, 118 00:08:45,279 --> 00:08:47,919 I think people forget that Donald Trump was loved by 119 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:52,159 many Democrats. Prior to running for the presidency. He donated 120 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,759 to people on both the left and the right. But 121 00:08:55,840 --> 00:09:00,679 once he decided to run for president as a as 122 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,639 an outsider, all those in power came out against him, 123 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,399 and particularly the left came out against him with such 124 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,840 fervor that that we have never seen before in American politics. 125 00:09:12,879 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no doubt about it. Ferver in fire and 126 00:09:16,639 --> 00:09:19,879 again you can point to myriad examples, But I want 127 00:09:19,879 --> 00:09:22,720 to take you back to twenty twenty. You know, when 128 00:09:22,759 --> 00:09:28,039 we had massive riots. One could argue insurrections across the 129 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,360 country from the left burning down portions of cities. You 130 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,879 mentioned Kenosha in your story in your op ed. Excuse 131 00:09:35,919 --> 00:09:40,879 me and Bernie Sanders being there talking about these oligarchies 132 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:42,679 and all of that sort of thing, which we'll get 133 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,840 back to in just a moment, But there was a 134 00:09:45,879 --> 00:09:49,879 portion of Kenosha that burned down in the Black Lives 135 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:54,600 Matter riots. How do they square that circle when they're 136 00:09:54,639 --> 00:09:58,360 talking about social injustice and then burning down neighborhoods of 137 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:03,960 course that are low end come minority neighborhoods filled with 138 00:10:04,039 --> 00:10:05,960 low income minority businesses. 139 00:10:07,159 --> 00:10:09,879 Speaker 2: Well, it's strange because they're so committed to this far 140 00:10:10,039 --> 00:10:13,320 left worldview and they're so convinced that they are morally 141 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:18,240 righteous in their cause that essentially the ends justify their means. 142 00:10:18,279 --> 00:10:21,080 They can do anything as long as it's in pursuit 143 00:10:21,279 --> 00:10:25,799 of a greater good. But simultaneously, you really push these 144 00:10:25,879 --> 00:10:30,440 leftists and get a little bit philosophical with them, they 145 00:10:30,799 --> 00:10:34,440 will come out and say that, well, morality is actually subjective, 146 00:10:34,759 --> 00:10:38,399 there's no objective truth in which case, as I made 147 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:43,039 the point in this article, they have no moral foundations 148 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,200 to their worldview. So this is where the strange hypocrisy 149 00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:50,200 comes in. The Left are oftentimes the most moralizing and 150 00:10:50,279 --> 00:10:54,759 self righteous people in our society, Yet when they're pressed 151 00:10:54,879 --> 00:10:59,279 on their beliefs and the moral foundations of them, there's 152 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:04,080 nothing there but just sort of secular nihilism and materialism. 153 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,879 Speaker 1: How difficult and challenging it must be for someone to 154 00:11:10,039 --> 00:11:16,559 be so moralizing without a moral foundation. But that's your 155 00:11:16,639 --> 00:11:19,879 argument that that's the collective left. That's what's going on 156 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,080 in American leftist politics today. 157 00:11:22,759 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 2: Absolutely, there's this immense confusion because the left, while having 158 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:33,600 this commitment to secular liberal values, simultaneously has to draw 159 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:40,720 upon Christian moral assumptions to inform some of their worldview. 160 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,399 The historian Tom Holland, whom I quoted in the piece 161 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,919 said that to live in a Western society today is 162 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,759 to still live in a society that is utterly saturated 163 00:11:49,759 --> 00:11:53,720 by Christian concepts and assumptions. So people take for granted 164 00:11:54,159 --> 00:12:01,399 just how significant the Christian Revolution was on the world. 165 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:06,759 The ancient pagan world was absolutely savage, tyrannical, and unjust. 166 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:12,200 As the Federalist editor John Daniel Davidson pointed out, I 167 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,840 think very effectively in his book Pagan America, the the 168 00:12:16,039 --> 00:12:19,360 dominant idea in Paganism is essentially that nothing is true, 169 00:12:19,639 --> 00:12:24,080 everything is permitted, and under those conditions, those in power 170 00:12:24,159 --> 00:12:28,919 can simply impose their will and their desire on the population. 171 00:12:29,759 --> 00:12:33,919 Because if nothing is true and everything is permitted, then 172 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,120 ultimately just your opinion against my opinion. And if I've 173 00:12:37,159 --> 00:12:41,519 got power, then who are you to say that I 174 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:46,120 am morally wrong and imposing my worldview even with force 175 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:47,799 and violence against you. 176 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:54,879 Speaker 1: That's an interesting contradiction of the so called mostly peaceful demonstrations, 177 00:12:55,039 --> 00:12:59,000 mostly peaceful left and You're right. John expertly drives home 178 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,000 this point that if you don't have this moral foundation, 179 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,000 if you don't have this moral center, well everything kind 180 00:13:06,039 --> 00:13:08,919 of collapses around you. And all of the peace that 181 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,720 you say that you're pursuing really comes back to power, 182 00:13:13,519 --> 00:13:16,960 And exactly that's I guess that's really what we're talking 183 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:22,440 about with the Bernie Sanders oligarchy argument. He's looking at 184 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,919 the ones he's labeling as ola garks, refusing of course, 185 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:32,000 to look at the arguably the real olig arcs, the billionaires, 186 00:13:32,519 --> 00:13:37,080 the leftish sugar daddies of the Democratic Party, the George Sorosids, 187 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:43,440 the Reid Hoffman's. They're playing such a fundamental role in 188 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,559 policy and politics today. 189 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 2: Yes, I think ever since Donald Trump ran for president, 190 00:13:52,399 --> 00:13:56,279 it became increasingly clear that the left was no longer 191 00:13:56,360 --> 00:14:02,200 opposed to the industrial hycoons and the Wall Street speculators 192 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,120 in the way that they used to. Increasingly the left 193 00:14:05,159 --> 00:14:10,039 came to understand the establishment or the oligarchy as the 194 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,200 white male Christian so to speak. And that could include 195 00:14:14,799 --> 00:14:19,440 your rural truck driver who's only making forty something thousand 196 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,600 dollars a year, or that could include someone like like 197 00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:27,840 Donald Trump or Elon Musk. But nonetheless, there's this very 198 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,600 strange phenomenon where you have these highly educated, perhaps Ivy 199 00:14:31,639 --> 00:14:36,559 League educated, progressive elites acting as if someone from some 200 00:14:36,799 --> 00:14:41,360 rust belt, blue collar town is the essence of the 201 00:14:41,679 --> 00:14:46,240 oppressor in our society simply because they may be a 202 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,360 white male and a Christian. So I think the left 203 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:54,559 is far more opposed to Christianity today than they are 204 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:58,080 to the rich or the wealthy. And I think that 205 00:14:58,759 --> 00:15:02,840 was very much indicated by Bernie Sanders' decision to have 206 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,320 Laura Jane Grace perform this song at his rally in Kenosha. 207 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 3: Elon's not cutting Medicare, just the billions in waste of it. 208 00:15:13,639 --> 00:15:16,399 The watch Dout on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. 209 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,320 Every day, Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and 210 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,559 the economy and how it affects your wallet. As the 211 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,200 Left freaks out claiming Elon Musk is gonna cut Medicare. 212 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,759 Remember during Obamacare when health insurance got double paid by 213 00:15:27,799 --> 00:15:30,840 Medicaid for hundreds of thousands of patients and our government 214 00:15:30,879 --> 00:15:33,320 didn't check whether it's happening in DC or down on 215 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,000 Wall Street. It's affecting you financially. 216 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:35,559 Speaker 2: Be informed. 217 00:15:35,679 --> 00:15:37,519 Speaker 3: Check out the watch Dot on Wall Street podcast with 218 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,840 Chris Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. 219 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: Our guest today is Aiden Grog and a writer history 220 00:15:46,679 --> 00:15:50,759 PhD student at Liberty University and the Young Voices contributor. 221 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,960 You can read his latest op ed examining why the 222 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:59,200 left's hostility toward Christianity contradicts their fight against oppression and 223 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,720 injustice is at least they're so called fight against oppression 224 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:08,519 and injustice. Again, you can find that at Real Clear 225 00:16:08,919 --> 00:16:15,919 Religion one source. Indeed, how much did the election cycle 226 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:21,639 of twenty twenty four change the dynamic in this country 227 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,960 as it relates to this topic. It's changed it so 228 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,799 much in so many different ways. But the argument that hey, 229 00:16:29,919 --> 00:16:35,960 we are Christians, we are a fundamentally Christian nation. We're 230 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,799 not going to apologize for that. I'll ask you the 231 00:16:39,879 --> 00:16:43,519 question of how much it's changed it in terms of 232 00:16:43,559 --> 00:16:48,759 politics as you see it and policy? And the other question, 233 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:53,480 the more difficult one, is how sustainable is that strength 234 00:16:53,519 --> 00:16:55,080 and courage? 235 00:16:55,639 --> 00:16:58,519 Speaker 2: Absolutely so. What we saw in twenty twenty four was 236 00:16:58,519 --> 00:17:03,960 an across the board rejectection of institutionalized wokeness. Over the 237 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:10,559 past decade, the leading institutions in American life all became 238 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:19,119 thoroughly saturated with woke progressive ideology. Fortune, five hundred companies, media, nonprofits, universities, etc. 239 00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:23,480 And people were simply sick of it. The message did 240 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,640 not appeal to ordinary working class people of any erase. 241 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,359 And in this last election we saw that Trump won 242 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,319 a majority of the vote among Hispanic men. We also 243 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,920 saw significantly more black men voting for Trump this time 244 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:43,599 around than in twenty twenty or twenty sixteen. So I 245 00:17:43,599 --> 00:17:48,079 think men in particular are rejecting this woke ideology. It 246 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,359 does not have much appeal to men. It mostly has 247 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:56,559 appeal to college educated women. And you can't unite a 248 00:17:56,559 --> 00:18:01,559 society around a message that is that is so thoroughly 249 00:18:01,799 --> 00:18:08,559 divisive and toxic, and that effectively alienates half of the population. Now, 250 00:18:08,599 --> 00:18:15,680 as for whether this current I guess the worldview which 251 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:20,759 won the election the Republican Party of twenty twenty four, 252 00:18:22,279 --> 00:18:24,960 I think it ran against wokeness and it was able 253 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,519 to win on that front. But I think conservatism has 254 00:18:27,559 --> 00:18:29,759 a lot of work to do in crafting a more 255 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:35,000 long term sort of post populist vision. Now, perhaps populism 256 00:18:35,079 --> 00:18:38,359 is necessary here and there. It's a reckoning on an 257 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,480 establishment that has lost touch with ordinary working people. But 258 00:18:43,759 --> 00:18:47,759 populism can't be sustained forever and ever. Eventually, you have 259 00:18:47,799 --> 00:18:50,240 to return to normal. You don't want the masses to 260 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,119 be perpetually in revolt against the ruling class. You want 261 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,599 to have a ruling class that actually represents the people, 262 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,279 that understands them, and that will work for them the 263 00:19:00,279 --> 00:19:03,759 best interest with the common good of the nation. So 264 00:19:03,839 --> 00:19:08,079 the Trump moment is eventually going to come to an end. 265 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:13,480 I think what the Trump Maga Revolution did was it 266 00:19:13,559 --> 00:19:16,559 exposed that there's a lot of phoniness and corruption in 267 00:19:16,599 --> 00:19:21,880 our political system. But it's time to look beyond this 268 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:28,000 and really start to articulate a long term conservative vision 269 00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:33,079 that can appeal to broad swaths of the population. I 270 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,960 think it's going to be particularly challenging because the United 271 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,759 States is becoming more and more of a secular nation. 272 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,920 Public opinion is liberalizing on a lot of social issues. 273 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:46,440 The Republican Party of twenty twenty four understood that and 274 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:52,000 actually changed its stance on certain social issues such as 275 00:19:52,599 --> 00:19:57,039 same sex marriage or abortion, recognizing that those were not 276 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:05,240 winning strategies. So I've made the case that the twenty 277 00:20:05,319 --> 00:20:08,640 twenty four election was won by barstool conservatism. It was 278 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,680 sort of the conservatism of Dave Portnoy. It's very anti 279 00:20:12,839 --> 00:20:16,799 establishment it waves the middle finger at elite progressive injunctions. 280 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,440 But it's not the conservatism of Russell Kirk or Edmund Burke. 281 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:28,160 This is a very anti establishment populist movement, which which 282 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,559 again may serve its purpose and may be necessary, but 283 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,079 I don't personally think that it's a coherent, long term vision. 284 00:20:34,599 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: That's fundamentally understandable why it was that kind of revolution 285 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:43,519 because the institutions have been so thoroughly corrupted, and that 286 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,319 is what I think the American people were rising up against. 287 00:20:48,039 --> 00:20:52,640 You All of that, I think is a big part 288 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,519 of it. But I also think that it was a 289 00:20:54,559 --> 00:20:59,039 revolution against incompetence. What we saw in the Biden years 290 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:05,759 was absolutely incompetence in governance, and the American people already 291 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:11,039 had a you know, a body of work from President 292 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,920 Trump in his first term and his administration. They compared 293 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:21,559 that next to Joe Biden, and the orders are Kamala Harris. 294 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,920 They saw no borders, they saw inflation at you know, 295 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,880 historic levels, They saw all kinds of problems with crime 296 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,599 in their neighborhoods. They saw all kinds of problems, and 297 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,440 they wanted it to end. And so that was a 298 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,599 big part of it. As well back to the left, 299 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:50,319 though they were thoroughly rejected, pretty thoroughly rejected in November, 300 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:50,960 wouldn't you. 301 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,039 Speaker 2: Agree, absolutely rejected. 302 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,279 Speaker 1: And if that's the case, why are they doubling down 303 00:21:59,079 --> 00:22:03,160 on the same things that cost them so dearly in November. 304 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 2: Well, that's a very important question, because Bernie Sanders in 305 00:22:07,799 --> 00:22:13,119 particular mentioned I think intelligently after the election that the 306 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,599 Democratic Party has lost touch with the working class. And 307 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,480 I thought that the Democratic Party would get together and 308 00:22:21,519 --> 00:22:27,200 do some serious thinking and restructuring after that blowout to 309 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:32,240 try to reorient the party toward serving the working class. 310 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:36,759 But they really do seem to be doubling down. And 311 00:22:36,839 --> 00:22:40,519 perhaps there just is a high level of incompetence within 312 00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:43,720 the ranks of the Democratic Party. Perhaps they are so 313 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,920 out of touch with the way that ordinary people think, 314 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,960 or indoctrinated by the elite institutions they have attended, which 315 00:22:52,039 --> 00:22:55,960 which have inculcated them with this woke, progressive or neo 316 00:22:56,039 --> 00:23:02,079 Marxist ideology, that they simply cannot think in terms outside 317 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,440 of the confines of that narrow worldview. And so they 318 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:11,200 are resolutely committed to this progressive, woke, neo Marxist ideology 319 00:23:11,319 --> 00:23:16,480 with unrelenting fervor, which is quite religious in nature. As 320 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,599 Edmund Burke said, man is, by his very constitution, a 321 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,519 religious animal. Atheism is against not only our reason but 322 00:23:24,559 --> 00:23:28,759 our instincts, and it cannot prevail long. So the elite 323 00:23:28,799 --> 00:23:32,599 progressives are actually engaged in a religious crusade, whether or 324 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:38,359 not that they acknowledge it. But it's very difficult to 325 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,440 change people's deeply held religious beliefs. So that's why I 326 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:49,000 think those steering the Democratic Party have not adapted very 327 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,759 much since the twenty twenty four election. They have doubled 328 00:23:51,799 --> 00:23:54,319 down because this is all that they know. They have 329 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,519 to advance this worldview because that's what is in their soul. 330 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,559 Speaker 1: On the other side of that, aiden, what say you 331 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,680 of the Republican Party, Because one thing we do know 332 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,599 about the left is they have been in it and 333 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:14,920 will be in the crusade for a very long time. 334 00:24:15,559 --> 00:24:19,640 They make deep investments, and by that they have used 335 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:24,480 the power of the government bureaucracy. They have used massive 336 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:33,480 leftist well healed donors, donations from well healed donors to 337 00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:39,799 do everything from indoctrinate the school system. I mean that's 338 00:24:40,039 --> 00:24:41,960 deep in the water for generations. 339 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 2: Now. 340 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 1: The kind of indoctrination we've seen on the DEI front. 341 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,920 What's going on in terms of state, local, and the 342 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,839 federal government. They have driven long term policies, They've played 343 00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:00,960 the long game on the courts. Are conservatives the Republican 344 00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:05,680 Party in particular, responding with the long term game or 345 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,440 are they still stuck in short term advances. 346 00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 2: I think right now the political right is really focused 347 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:21,480 on government because the left has taken over the culture. 348 00:25:21,599 --> 00:25:26,359 Back in the nineteen sixties, the neo Marxist left launched 349 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,599 a long march through the institutions. They understood that they 350 00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:32,200 did not only have to take over government, but they 351 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,680 had to take over the education system, the media, the 352 00:25:34,839 --> 00:25:40,720 entertainment industry, the publishing houses, etc. To advance their worldview 353 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:46,480 and thoroughly saturate their ideology throughout American society. And they 354 00:25:46,519 --> 00:25:49,960 won the Culture War. And the right is responding to 355 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:54,599 the left's dominance in the culture through government, and there's 356 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:59,240 been some significant victories, such as the rollback of DEI 357 00:25:59,559 --> 00:26:05,240 initiatives and an attempt to weaken the power of the 358 00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:09,599 federal government and have a more federalist approach, particularly with education, 359 00:26:09,799 --> 00:26:14,000 wanting education to be run locally, and not have bureaucrats 360 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,119 in DC setting education policy for the entire country. But 361 00:26:18,559 --> 00:26:20,680 as I said that, the right needs to think more 362 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,039 long term and past the current populist wave. We really 363 00:26:24,079 --> 00:26:26,599 need to figure out a way to take back the culture. 364 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:31,160 The right does need its own long march through the institutions. 365 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,640 We need to take back the publishing houses, we need 366 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,079 to take back the entertainment industry, we need to take 367 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,160 back the media. Now, many will say that that is 368 00:26:41,519 --> 00:26:44,680 probably an impossible task. People don't even know where to begin. 369 00:26:44,759 --> 00:26:46,920 If you say let's change the culture, they say, well, 370 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,240 how are you going to do that. Let's just try 371 00:26:50,279 --> 00:26:53,799 to advance our worldview through government. But if we're serious 372 00:26:53,839 --> 00:26:57,119 about this and we really do want to win America's future, 373 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,039 we have to start somewhere. And I think that a 374 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,359 post populist or a post Trump right really needs to 375 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,960 take that into consideration. And now is the perfect time 376 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,079 to do it, because there is this broad rejection of 377 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:15,519 the left's ideology which has been steadily growing and seeping 378 00:27:15,559 --> 00:27:19,039 across all institutions for decades. It really reached its full 379 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,039 flowering in the past decade. But the American people are 380 00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:27,839 rejecting it and Thankfully, they're rejecting it across multiple demographics, 381 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,039 not just one segment of the country. So the opportunity 382 00:27:31,079 --> 00:27:35,359 is very ripe for the right to cast its vision 383 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,920 not only in politics, but in the culture. 384 00:27:39,079 --> 00:27:42,319 Speaker 1: You right in your piece. The rights and freedoms enumerated 385 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,119 in the Declaration of Independence and safeguarded by the US Constitution, 386 00:27:46,559 --> 00:27:51,559 which progressives like Grace and Sanders enjoy and exercise by 387 00:27:51,599 --> 00:27:57,759 attacking Christianity are indebted to the West Christian inheritance. Are 388 00:27:57,799 --> 00:28:03,599 they willfully obtuse or just absolutely obtuse to that idea? 389 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,559 Speaker 2: They are absolutely obtuse. They do not seem to understand 390 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,000 the way in which our society is still, in so 391 00:28:14,079 --> 00:28:18,519 many ways informed by Christian morality. And again they like 392 00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:20,759 to pick and choose. If there was nothing in the 393 00:28:20,799 --> 00:28:27,720 Bible that said anything negative about the LGBT lifestyle, I 394 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,119 think they'd be much more inclined to accept the Christian 395 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,200 faith than they presently are. I think a lot of 396 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:40,519 the revolt against Christianity is driven by it's it's the 397 00:28:40,839 --> 00:28:45,599 way it calls on us to conduct ourselves personally, particularly 398 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:52,319 in regard to human sexuality. Even all this, Huxley, the 399 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,960 great writer of brave New world and and sort of 400 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,640 a modern rationalist and empiricist type of thinker said that 401 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:06,920 many of his contemporaries revolted against Christianity, not because uh, 402 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,839 it was it was unreasonable, but because it interfered with 403 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,160 the way that they wanted to conduct themselves sexually. And 404 00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:18,799 so much of the the left's agenda today is this 405 00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:24,319 obsession with human sexuality, whether it's LGBT or abortion. That's 406 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,160 that's really their focus. That the Left is so focused 407 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,279 on just maintaining sexual freedom, and they really abandoned many 408 00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:34,359 of the older economic arguments that they used to make. 409 00:29:35,559 --> 00:29:38,880 And and someone like Bernie Sanders is still trying to 410 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,519 keep the old left alive in a certain respect. But 411 00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:46,960 but he seems in many ways more committed to the 412 00:29:47,039 --> 00:29:51,240 current progressive woke ideology than he is to the old 413 00:29:51,359 --> 00:29:54,359 left's prime primary economic arguments. 414 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:59,359 Speaker 1: Now, Bernie is, if any anything, you know, an old 415 00:29:59,359 --> 00:30:03,400 world social So he understands about using useful idiots and 416 00:30:03,839 --> 00:30:09,599 you know, his ultimate ends. Again, it comes back to 417 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:14,279 that whole notion, the you know, the ends justify the means. 418 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,799 That seems to me to sum up the American Left today. 419 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 2: Agree, disagree absolutely, Yeah again they are very religious, but 420 00:30:25,039 --> 00:30:28,400 they don't realize it. And Bernie Sanders in twenty sixteen 421 00:30:28,519 --> 00:30:31,119 was asked about his religion and he said, quote that 422 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,640 he's not particularly religious, that he doesn't attend a synagogue 423 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:40,559 or any type of congregation. But nonetheless, when he rebukes 424 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,839 the greed of the rich and says, what is the 425 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,480 morality in one percent of the population hoarding whatever percentage 426 00:30:46,519 --> 00:30:53,839 of the wealth, he's relying on Christian moral precepts. 427 00:30:55,759 --> 00:30:58,839 Speaker 1: Final question for you, and that is this, as we 428 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,440 look ahead, not to the left but to the right, 429 00:31:03,359 --> 00:31:07,720 it would seem in many ways there is a spiritual 430 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,119 awakening that has been going on for some time in 431 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:20,920 this country. Will that ultimately blossom, Will that ultimately succeed 432 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:27,160 in maybe helping turn back the left in their war 433 00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:29,400 on Christianity in America. 434 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 2: Throughout American history there have been several spontaneous great awakenings 435 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:42,039 of religious sentiment and religious conviction, and these seemingly spring 436 00:31:42,119 --> 00:31:45,839 up out of nowhere when least expected. And I am 437 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,519 hopeful that there will be some type of new great 438 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:55,079 awakening in this century that will radically transform American culture 439 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,039 and politics. And in fact, I don't think that anything 440 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,319 can change unless there is is another great awakening. I 441 00:32:02,359 --> 00:32:06,640 think that our political divide at its core is actually 442 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:11,599 a theological divide. C. S. Lewis said, in the end, 443 00:32:11,599 --> 00:32:14,359 there are only two types of people, those who say 444 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,640 to God, thy will be done, or those to whom 445 00:32:17,759 --> 00:32:22,319 God says thy will be done. So ultimately everything is 446 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,240 religious and spiritual in nature. In the end, everyone is 447 00:32:26,319 --> 00:32:32,319 a religious creature. We all have metaphysical assumptions about the 448 00:32:32,359 --> 00:32:39,119 world and something much much deeper that motivates us. And 449 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,799 I think it's time that we really understand that and 450 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:48,880 really take seriously these deeper metaphysical and theological questions about 451 00:32:49,599 --> 00:32:51,599 human life and existence. 452 00:32:52,519 --> 00:32:56,559 Speaker 1: I just I think there is yearning, really, a longing 453 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:03,200 for something bigger than in our selves. I just do 454 00:33:03,599 --> 00:33:09,079 as you mentioned before Burke's notion of man as a religious, 455 00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:15,000 spiritual animal. You know, there is such an emptiness in 456 00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:17,519 so much of the culture that has been driven by 457 00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:21,559 the cultural takeover of the left. Quite frankly, I think 458 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,119 that you know, like him or dislike him, But the 459 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,880 vik Ramaswami who ran for president, covering him and what 460 00:33:29,119 --> 00:33:33,519 he tried to message in his political run for president 461 00:33:33,799 --> 00:33:39,119 was this deep void in America among Americans, and I think, 462 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:44,480 particularly after what we all survived in COVID, the isolation, 463 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,160 I think that longing has just been screaming out. How 464 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:50,200 do you feel about that? 465 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:56,839 Speaker 2: Absolutely, a man inherently has these spiritual longings, and if 466 00:33:56,839 --> 00:33:59,240 it's not Christianity, it's going to be some type of 467 00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:02,160 other religion. And there was an article in Newsweek a 468 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,319 few years ago which is very illustrative of our current 469 00:34:06,759 --> 00:34:11,239 religious moment. The headline was number of Witches rises dramatically 470 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,599 across the US as millennials reject Christianity. And to get 471 00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:18,039 back to the argument of John Daniel Davidson in his 472 00:34:18,079 --> 00:34:22,559 book Pagan America, as Christianity withers away, We're going to 473 00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:28,400 see the resurgence of these very bizarre, superstitious, ancient pagan practices. 474 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,440 And I think we're already seeing that among young people 475 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,039 who have thoroughly rejected the Christian faith. It's not that 476 00:34:34,039 --> 00:34:40,880 they're becoming more secular, atheistic, agnostic, or rationalist. Increasingly they 477 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:47,119 are getting involved in these very bizarre, occultic types of practices. 478 00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:51,039 They're interested in divination, witchcraft, and so forth. Now that 479 00:34:51,079 --> 00:34:53,920 may be a minority, but I think that that is 480 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,960 going to become more widespread as Christianity withers in the 481 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,920 culture unless there is some great awakening, which I am hopeful. 482 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,119 Speaker 1: For well as always, there are some frightening things in 483 00:35:06,159 --> 00:35:10,280 the horizon, but there's also great opportunity and that is 484 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,920 at the core of what we believe, I think in 485 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,800 our faith on our Faith Journey. Thanks to my guest today, 486 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,400 Aiden Grogan, a writer in history, PhD student Liberty University, 487 00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:27,039 and a Young Voices contributor, you can find his new 488 00:35:27,119 --> 00:35:32,760 piece a fascinating look into where we are at in 489 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,800 America on many fronts. His latest op ed examines why 490 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:43,639 the left's hostility toward Christianity contradicts their fight against oppression 491 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,199 and injustice. You've been listening to another edition of The 492 00:35:48,199 --> 00:35:52,199 Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Matt Kittle's senior elections correspondent at 493 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,679 the Federalist. We'll be back soon with more. Until then, 494 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,559 stay lovers of freedom, anxious for the. 495 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,159 Speaker 3: Frank m. 496 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 2: I heard the fame voice the Reason, and then it 497 00:36:11,039 --> 00:36:12,000 faded away. 498 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:16,559 Speaker 1: M HM.