Speaker 1: One of the easiest words we throw around is evil.
Speaker 1: We call people evil, we call actions evil, we call
Speaker 1: systems evil. But the moment a God enters the conversation,
Speaker 1: people suddenly change the rules. So today let's slow it down.
Speaker 1: What actually makes something evil? Is it intent, the outcome,
Speaker 1: the amount of suffering it causes.
Speaker 2: It's evil, something.
Speaker 1: That's wrong, no matter who does it or does A
Speaker 1: god get a completely different set of standards than everybody else.
Speaker 2: And if your.
Speaker 1: Answer is that a loving God can't do evil by definition,
Speaker 1: then I want to know how you reach that conclusion.
Speaker 1: Is it because of the actions themselves or because you've
Speaker 1: already decided that anything a god does has to be good.
Speaker 1: Today is about examining the standard that you're using and
Speaker 1: whether we're being consistent with it. So, wherever you land,
Speaker 1: whether you're a believer, whether you're questioning your faith or
Speaker 1: an atheist, we want to.
Speaker 2: Hear from you.
Speaker 1: If you think an evil God doesn't apply, give us
Speaker 1: a call at five one two nine ninety one nine
Speaker 1: two four to two, or request up via TikTok and
Speaker 1: tell us why. I'm your host thinker. This is the
Speaker 1: atheists experience, and the show is starting right now.
Speaker 2: Hey, Guyles Engineer, how are you.
Speaker 3: Hey. I'm doing pretty good. You know. I was on
Speaker 3: Talk keythan earlier and so now I'm on here and
Speaker 3: it's just been a yeah, it's been a very you know,
Speaker 3: call in show kind of day for me. It's been awesome.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to have you here with me. We work
Speaker 1: hard in the atheist community. I would say, well, welcome everybody.
Speaker 1: Today is July nineteenth, twenty twenty six, and I want
Speaker 1: to welcome all of you to the Atheists Experience. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. I'm your host Thinker
Speaker 1: and joining me today. As I stated as Godless Engineer,
Speaker 1: the Atheist Experience is a product of the Atheist Community
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Speaker 1: critical thinking, secular humanism, and the separation of religion and government.
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Speaker 2: And Godless Engineer, are you ready to take some calls?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 3: I definitely am. I'm ready to get into it.
Speaker 1: All right, let's go ahead on and get started. I
Speaker 1: think I'm going to start with Andrew. See what Andrew
Speaker 1: has today?
Speaker 2: Andrew? Are you there? You're on the line with Thinker
Speaker 2: and Godless Engineer. I'm hi, How are you hi?
Speaker 3: Andrew?
Speaker 5: Ahgardless?
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask someone from the team if you
Speaker 1: could let my TikTok account up on stage for me?
Speaker 2: Please?
Speaker 1: What what are your thoughts on your God being evil
Speaker 1: and you knowing it?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 5: Well, I want to know what's what you mean by evil?
Speaker 6: Like are you talking about like evil from the standard of.
Speaker 5: Harm or where? What do you mean by like God
Speaker 5: being evil?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well, the definition of evil is wicked and moral infliction
Speaker 1: of intentional harm injustices.
Speaker 2: Or injustice?
Speaker 1: So yeah, like, do you have a different definition of evil?
Speaker 5: Well being? I would believe that anything that goes outside
Speaker 5: of God's preferences would be evil.
Speaker 1: Anything that goes outside of his purpose is evil. I
Speaker 1: mean it's not evil.
Speaker 6: So if it's like, if anything goes against his preference.
Speaker 5: It would be evil.
Speaker 1: So an atheist, right, someone not obeying him would be evil.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that would be evil according to Christians, just like
Speaker 5: secularists would say that Christians would be evil if they
Speaker 5: follow the Old Testament.
Speaker 1: Got so, when your God's holy spirit commands you to
Speaker 1: go and kill thirty random people, that's not evil.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 5: You're talking about the amaletized.
Speaker 6: What are you talking about?
Speaker 1: No, No, I have been. If your God's spirit commanded
Speaker 1: you right to go and kill thirty random people, would
Speaker 1: that be good?
Speaker 6: If he asked me to do that today?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 5: Oh no, then then I wouldn't do it because I'm not.
Speaker 1: Asking if you would do it. I'm asking. I'm not
Speaker 1: asking would you do it? I'm asking would that be good?
Speaker 1: You said anything that goes against his purpose is evil?
Speaker 1: Your god purpose is obedience, is to obey his will.
Speaker 1: So if his will is for you to kill thirty
Speaker 1: random people, then that would be then good.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that would be good.
Speaker 6: What's the counter argument to it?
Speaker 5: Would that not be good?
Speaker 2: To kill thirty random people.
Speaker 1: So anybody could say that the Holy Spirit led them
Speaker 1: to kill thirty people because it was God's will.
Speaker 6: Yeah, what's the argument against then?
Speaker 1: That killing people is harmful? That's intentional harm.
Speaker 3: Why is that bad?
Speaker 2: Why is intentional harm bad?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 6: God told them to do it, they'll being their God.
Speaker 5: Why would that be bad?
Speaker 1: Well, one, because it's causing intentional harm, and then it
Speaker 1: would create chaos because all of you are talking to
Speaker 1: your God in your head and no one can verify
Speaker 1: whether a god told you anything.
Speaker 2: You all are bickering with each other?
Speaker 1: Are you all are bickering with each other, whether y'all
Speaker 1: are true Christians or not? Like y'all don't even agree
Speaker 1: with each other when when y'all say God said, Like,
Speaker 1: I think you're being obtuse right now when you're asking
Speaker 1: why would that be bad? The world would be in chaos.
Speaker 1: The world would be in chaos if all of you
Speaker 1: were actually listening to a god and obeying it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but you can't demonstrate that the world being chaos.
Speaker 5: You can't demonstrate that.
Speaker 2: I can't. Are you serious right now? Like you can't
Speaker 2: be serious?
Speaker 6: You can't demonstrate that.
Speaker 1: I can't demonstrate that if everybody thought that a God
Speaker 1: was talking to them in their head and every time
Speaker 1: they wanted to kill somebody, that they could just go
Speaker 1: kill and say God told me to. I cannot demonstrate
Speaker 1: that would be chaos. Like, what do you think we
Speaker 1: have laws for?
Speaker 7: What do you know?
Speaker 2: What do you think we have laws for?
Speaker 5: Hold on, you made a claim, you said the world
Speaker 5: would being chaos.
Speaker 1: I am I am proving that claim right now. But
Speaker 1: I think you're trying to do some philosophical syllogism that
Speaker 1: you are.
Speaker 2: Not equipped to do. Why do we have laws? Why
Speaker 2: do we have laws?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 2: Why do we have laws?
Speaker 6: I don't know why. I don't know why we have laws.
Speaker 1: You literally said that I cannot prove that the world
Speaker 1: would be in chaos if everybody just killed whenever they
Speaker 1: wanted to and say God told them to.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so you can need to demonstrate or.
Speaker 2: Why do we have laws against murder?
Speaker 5: Because people don't want to be murdered, that's why.
Speaker 1: Because people don't want to be murdered, or because it
Speaker 1: would be chaos. People would just be killing whenever they
Speaker 1: wanted to. We have laws against murder to detour people
Speaker 1: from murdering, so.
Speaker 2: That it would not be chaos so.
Speaker 1: That people wouldn't just be taking lives whenever they felt
Speaker 1: like it, and then saying God told me to.
Speaker 5: So you're against any kind of military action.
Speaker 1: Then it's military action murder. Yeah, military action is murdered.
Speaker 1: So then when here gonsens the Israelite army to fight
Speaker 1: against cities far away from them, he was murdering people.
Speaker 2: He was instructing the Israelites to murder.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so why was he doing that? He was instructing
Speaker 5: them to kill people who went against the Israelites.
Speaker 1: He was instructing them to murder, although he gave a
Speaker 1: law that says do not murder. So, your God is
Speaker 1: a hypocrite, Well, I think he's not only. Your God
Speaker 1: is not only evil, he's also a hypocrite.
Speaker 5: Well so a secularist, they're also hypocrites, none of you,
Speaker 5: none of them are Vegan.
Speaker 1: Well, we're not talking about seculars. We're talking about your God. Like,
Speaker 1: are you agreeing with me that your God is evil
Speaker 1: and a hypocrite?
Speaker 6: No, this is kind of easy because you're the same way.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is kind of easy.
Speaker 1: The topic isn't me, though, The topic is your God.
Speaker 2: Your God is evil and you know it.
Speaker 1: And so instead of you calling in trying to say
Speaker 1: that he isn't evil, you should have just said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, my God is evil, and he's a hypocrite,
Speaker 1: and he commands people to murder, and he gave me
Speaker 1: permission to murder whenever I feel like it.
Speaker 5: Well, I answered directly, no, he won't be a hypocrite,
Speaker 5: because God gives the rules. If he tells people, now, saw.
Speaker 6: That you saw not murder, and he says you're on
Speaker 6: a mission to murder.
Speaker 5: He obviously when he's talking about you saw.
Speaker 6: Not murder, he's talking about like other Israelites.
Speaker 2: So he still said don't murder.
Speaker 1: He literally says in Leviticus nineteen thirty three through thirty four,
Speaker 1: to treat a foreigner the same way that you would
Speaker 1: treat an Israelite when.
Speaker 2: They live in the land.
Speaker 1: So murdering a foreigner when they live in the land
Speaker 1: of Israel is against your God's law.
Speaker 2: And in fact, I know a king.
Speaker 1: I know a king whose name is David, who went
Speaker 1: against that law and murdered a hit Tite while that
Speaker 1: hit Tite was away fighting in the Israelite army for
Speaker 1: that Israelite king. And that king wanted it that hit
Speaker 1: Tit's wife, so he went and slept with his wife,
Speaker 1: got up pregnant, and then killed that hit tight because
Speaker 1: he wouldn't sleep with his wife and take credit for
Speaker 1: his baby. And your God did not make David die
Speaker 1: according to his law, a murderer was supposed to be
Speaker 1: executed when you go against the law, and your God
Speaker 1: didn't require that.
Speaker 2: So he is a hypocrite. He is evil and a hypocrite.
Speaker 1: He killed an innocent baby because David wanted some Illnina.
Speaker 5: Okay, so God is evil in a hypocrite. I mean
Speaker 5: that would make you the same way.
Speaker 1: Please explain that to me. Why would that make me
Speaker 1: the same way?
Speaker 5: Vegan? Are you?
Speaker 2: Huh? I do not eat meat.
Speaker 1: I do not eat beef or pork have it in
Speaker 1: seven years.
Speaker 2: I do eat eggs every now and then I eat
Speaker 2: brown eggs.
Speaker 5: Oh, so you justified the killing and animals.
Speaker 2: No, the eggs are not born yet. Go ahead, Gods.
Speaker 3: Well, I was just gonna say, for one thing, Andrew,
Speaker 3: you've totally divorced your idea of morality from any real
Speaker 3: sense of morality. As soon as you're as soon as
Speaker 3: you say that what is evil or what is bad
Speaker 3: is anything that deviates from God's purpose. You no longer
Speaker 3: are concerned with the morality that affects people. You care
Speaker 3: about pleasing your sky Daddy essentially, So like I get
Speaker 3: to your t to do some kind of purity test
Speaker 3: with think or here as far as like eating meat
Speaker 3: or anything like that. But the fact of the matter
Speaker 3: is is that you have no sense of morality. You
Speaker 3: don't care about being a good and moral person in
Speaker 3: a society. Because we're sitting here trying to explain to
Speaker 3: you why in a society, in a successful society, why
Speaker 3: it's bad to kill another person, and I feel like
Speaker 3: that is just indicative of the fact that you've completely
Speaker 3: divorced yourself from any real sense of morality and you
Speaker 3: are now in a headspace where you're just trying to
Speaker 3: please an all powerful god so that he won't burn
Speaker 3: you in hell forever. So I don't want to hear
Speaker 3: any kind of like moral grandstanding from you about whether
Speaker 3: or not somebody's vegan or if they eat meat or
Speaker 3: anything like that, because you don't really care about that.
Speaker 3: If you cared about that, you wouldn't follow a god
Speaker 3: that hamstrung horses and Joshua.
Speaker 2: You wouldn't.
Speaker 3: I mean, you can't tell me that God cares about
Speaker 3: the lives of animals or anything like that when he
Speaker 3: commands his people to utterly destroy those animals. So don't
Speaker 3: grandstand with this here, okay, because you don't give a
Speaker 3: shit about animals and your God doesn't give a shit
Speaker 3: about animals.
Speaker 5: No, I don't care about animals. I'm trying to point
Speaker 5: out the hypocrisy of seculars because they believe, they say
Speaker 5: that their morality is superior to religious people. And so
Speaker 5: when religious people point out that, hey, none of you
Speaker 5: guys are most of you guys aren't vegans, and you're
Speaker 5: saying that the god is God at the Old Testament.
Speaker 6: Is evil because he does all this death and destruction.
Speaker 5: But most anthier support death and destruction of animals because
Speaker 5: none of them won't will not be.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, Andrew, quit fucking grandstanding about animals
Speaker 3: right now. Quit grand no, quit fucking grandstanding about animals
Speaker 3: because you already said that you don't give a shit
Speaker 3: about animals. And also, us caring about the lives of
Speaker 3: human beings as well as other animals, it means that
Speaker 3: we actually do care about that. And just because somebody
Speaker 3: is more omnivorous than maybe you are, doesn't mean that
Speaker 3: they somehow love to torture animals like hamstringing horses or
Speaker 3: utterly destroying animals in a field of battle just because
Speaker 3: you know you're up against another force. Okay, your God
Speaker 3: specifically commanded the Israelites to disembowel animals and burn their
Speaker 3: entrails on an altar so that he could just swell
Speaker 3: the sweet savor of the barbecue at the time, So
Speaker 3: don't grandstand about this kind of shit. We could care
Speaker 3: about animals and be omnivorous at the exact same time,
Speaker 3: whereas your God, not giving a shit about animals, demanded
Speaker 3: that they be disemboweled and then have their entrails burned,
Speaker 3: as well as ham stringing animals so that they suffer
Speaker 3: and die. That means that he doesn't give a shit
Speaker 3: about animals, and he wants the animals to suffer in
Speaker 3: the most cruelest of ways. We don't want that. Like,
Speaker 3: even if both of us were more omnibus yours, it
Speaker 3: doesn't matter, because your God just doesn't give a shit
Speaker 3: about suffering. He only cares about, about, you know, appeasing
Speaker 3: his own personal whims. And that's and that's how it's
Speaker 3: completely divorced from any kind of sense of morality, whether
Speaker 3: you want to extend that morality to more of the
Speaker 3: animal kingdom than just humans. So, yeah, your God doesn't
Speaker 3: give a shit about that. Don't try to morally grandstand
Speaker 3: anybody here.
Speaker 5: I'm not I'm not I'm not morally granted, And I'm
Speaker 5: just pointing out the hypocrisy.
Speaker 6: That's all I was doing on.
Speaker 3: We're not We're not Yeah, we're not being We're not
Speaker 3: being hypocrites.
Speaker 5: That's hypocritical.
Speaker 1: The thing is is that you want to turn the
Speaker 1: conversation to humans when we're talking about your God, Like
Speaker 1: it's like that you have become your God's gaygoat or
Speaker 1: your God's sacrifice, like you need to stand in front
Speaker 1: of him to protect him. Your God made decisions, Like
Speaker 1: let's talk about the decisions that he made.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but if God created them hi universe, he can
Speaker 5: do whatever he can do with his creation, whatever he wants, right.
Speaker 2: I mean it's cool that you think that, But what
Speaker 2: we're talking about is whether.
Speaker 1: He is evil in a hypocrite and whether you are
Speaker 1: changing the definition of what evil is because it is
Speaker 1: your God and you feel like he can do whatever
Speaker 1: he wants. That still doesn't mean that it's not evil
Speaker 1: your I mean, your God literally gave his enemy permission
Speaker 1: to fuck with y'all.
Speaker 2: And you call that love. Like in the story your.
Speaker 1: God could not beat his enemy, your God, let me
Speaker 1: finish speaking.
Speaker 2: Please, let me finish speaking. Please. In your God's story
Speaker 2: he could not beat his enemy.
Speaker 1: He kicked his enemy down to earth where his loving
Speaker 1: human beings are, who are weaker than him, for y'all
Speaker 1: to fight his enemy, and you call that love.
Speaker 2: Would you do that to your children?
Speaker 5: You said?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 5: When I do my children?
Speaker 2: Would you lock your children in a room with your enemy?
Speaker 6: Yo, I'm want to lock my children in the room
Speaker 6: with my enemy.
Speaker 2: Why not?
Speaker 5: It's just I don't know why I wouldn't do I
Speaker 5: just wouldn't do it.
Speaker 2: You don't know why.
Speaker 1: You don't know why you wouldn't lock your children in
Speaker 1: the room with your mortal enemy.
Speaker 7: No.
Speaker 5: I wouldn't do it because I was told that it
Speaker 5: was wrong to do that.
Speaker 2: Who told you it was wrong?
Speaker 5: Like any harm that come to kids would be would
Speaker 5: be wrong?
Speaker 2: Who told you that?
Speaker 5: My parents, people around me?
Speaker 1: So your parents told you that it was wrong to
Speaker 1: do harm to kids, any harm. And that's the reason.
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure. The reason you would
Speaker 1: not lock.
Speaker 2: Your child in the room, in a room with your
Speaker 2: mortal enemy is.
Speaker 1: Because your parents told you it would be wrong to
Speaker 1: harm kids. Not because you love your children, but because
Speaker 1: your mommy and daddy would get you.
Speaker 5: No, they just told me that it was wrong to
Speaker 5: do stuff like that to Any kind of harm that
Speaker 5: would come to kids is wrong.
Speaker 2: Do you have children?
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: That's why.
Speaker 1: That's why your answer is the way it is because
Speaker 1: you don't understand the love to love, what it means
Speaker 1: to love a child. Now, if your mommy and daddy
Speaker 1: locked you in a room with their mortal enemy, would
Speaker 1: you feel like your mother and father loved.
Speaker 5: You locking in with their mortal enemy. And it depends
Speaker 5: and gave.
Speaker 1: And gave that mortal enemy free range to do whatever
Speaker 1: it to you. Oh No, that's not love.
Speaker 2: Would you think it was evil?
Speaker 5: I would think it was evil.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But when your God does it, it's not evil.
Speaker 2: It's love.
Speaker 5: God locked somebody in her said, God, lock somebody in
Speaker 5: a room.
Speaker 3: Right now, we're talking about Hell, Andrew, keep.
Speaker 2: Up, No, I'm talking about Earth.
Speaker 1: You're you are on earth with your You are on
Speaker 1: earth right with your God's mortal enemy running free to
Speaker 1: fuck with you anytime he wants. He kicked his mortal
Speaker 1: enemy out of heaven down to Earth where it's precious,
Speaker 1: and where's precious. You's arm yeah, yeah, and now it's
Speaker 1: your job to fight his enemy.
Speaker 2: And when he could have just if he's.
Speaker 1: All powerful, he could have just destroyed his enemy in
Speaker 1: heaven right when when Satan was up there causing trouble
Speaker 1: and said, he kicked him down here to Earth so
Speaker 1: he could mess with the weaker humans and gave him
Speaker 1: free range in an army to do it, an army
Speaker 1: of demons to help him.
Speaker 5: You said something before you said that, God, God, You
Speaker 5: said that God said somebody that to sleep with a child.
Speaker 1: Did I did not say that, Oh, poor, poor, poor poor,
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 2: Not say that. No. Listen, listen.
Speaker 1: The earth is analogous to.
Speaker 2: The room that your parents lacked you in.
Speaker 1: Okay, God is analogous to your parents. The devil is
Speaker 1: analogous to your parents enemy.
Speaker 2: Get it? Yeah, Okay, So.
Speaker 1: You're a God kicked his enemy out of his house
Speaker 1: down to yours where you are his humans, and gave
Speaker 1: his enemy, free range to do whatever he wants to
Speaker 1: do to his precious humans.
Speaker 2: Does that make sense? Okay?
Speaker 6: Well no, I mean you said God, you're talking about.
Speaker 5: Lucifer in the Bible the same same is just anybody
Speaker 5: who who who goes against God?
Speaker 2: But is there a devil?
Speaker 5: Yeah? They or something like that.
Speaker 2: So there, so you know who I'm talking about?
Speaker 5: Anybody? Yeah, anybody can be a devil.
Speaker 2: But is there a devil?
Speaker 1: Is there a did your God kick an angel out
Speaker 1: of heaven that is the devil? The dragon that deceived
Speaker 1: the whole world that was a liar from the beginning
Speaker 1: or no.
Speaker 6: I don't remember the context, but I think there were
Speaker 6: for a.
Speaker 2: Year either you have a devil or not?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Now what do you mean this? Actually? Know
Speaker 2: y'all got a real.
Speaker 3: Like what Andrew, Andrew? Are you a Christian? Andrew? Are
Speaker 3: you a Christian? Are you sure? Because it feels like
Speaker 3: you're bullshitting us right now?
Speaker 5: Why we're not being a Christian?
Speaker 3: Well, because you're acting confused about whether or not Satan
Speaker 3: exists in your theology.
Speaker 5: Well, when people think are saying they're thinking about the
Speaker 5: double horns and a white and a pitchfork or something
Speaker 5: like that. That's that's not how I describe or not.
Speaker 3: When have we described Satan that way?
Speaker 6: That's when most people have most people describing.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, all we've mentioned is is the theological figure
Speaker 3: of Satan and what the theology claims about Satan, meaning
Speaker 3: that Satan is the ruler of this world. That's what
Speaker 3: the theology says. So how about how about get out
Speaker 3: whatever you've got in mind as far as what we
Speaker 3: could or could not mean. We're just talking about fucking Satan. Okay, Andrew,
Speaker 3: that's what we're talking about. You're being obtuse right now.
Speaker 3: You're being purposefully obtuse.
Speaker 5: I've never heard of that word. Okay, you never.
Speaker 3: Heard of obtuse.
Speaker 5: I'm not I never heard of that word.
Speaker 3: Meaning like you're being purposefully ignorant. You're being you're being
Speaker 3: purposefully you're playing dumb is essentially what you're doing.
Speaker 6: I'm sorry you're.
Speaker 3: Playing dumb that. There's no way you in New Jersey
Speaker 3: don't have some kind of like theological concept of Satan
Speaker 3: and what that means, whether it's a redheaded figure with
Speaker 3: horns and a pitchfork or just the actual theological like
Speaker 3: figure that that is in apologetics, like you have a
Speaker 3: concept of it. You know what Thinker's talking about. You're
Speaker 3: being obtuse.
Speaker 6: No, I was just making sure we talk about the
Speaker 6: same the same thing, because I didn't wonder that's that's
Speaker 6: just that was just clarifying, that's that's true. I don't
Speaker 6: think being up too or whatever the word does.
Speaker 1: You literally said that Satan is just anybody who goes
Speaker 1: against the God. You tried to play like you didn't
Speaker 1: know who I was talking about when you said, are
Speaker 1: you talking about Lucifer?
Speaker 2: Is his name Lucifer? You were being up to.
Speaker 5: No, because people call Lucifer.
Speaker 3: Sayan right, those are similar. Yes, those are the same figure,
Speaker 3: Lucifer Satan, Like, however you want to mention him, That's
Speaker 3: who Thinker was talking about. You knew that's who Thinker
Speaker 3: was talking about. You know the theology that we're talking
Speaker 3: about right now. So you're you're just you're you're being
Speaker 3: really you're pissing me off. Listen, Andrew, what God? God
Speaker 3: is evil? Just by the claimed actions in his Holy Book?
Speaker 3: How do you feel about the Bible? Do you think
Speaker 3: the Bible is representative of God?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Of course, Okay, point to me in the Bible, where say,
Speaker 3: does anything that's that's out of the realm of God's commands,
Speaker 3: that there is something that's against what God has asked
Speaker 3: him to.
Speaker 6: Do, that's something that does on his own, without God
Speaker 6: telling him to do something.
Speaker 1: But first, I think I think we need to find
Speaker 1: out if he thinks Satan is evil, because that's the definition,
Speaker 1: right of what evil is.
Speaker 2: So do you think Satan is evil?
Speaker 6: Well, I've been trying to look into a narcissism.
Speaker 5: Of narcissism states that Satan was was probably most likely
Speaker 5: the good guy. So I've been trying to look into
Speaker 5: that for a while, and you know, nacissism trying to
Speaker 5: makes sense a little bit.
Speaker 6: But but but as I.
Speaker 5: Stand now, yeah, I would I would say I would
Speaker 5: say Satan is evil.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, now can you answer God with question?
Speaker 5: Can you repeat his question again?
Speaker 3: Yeah? When point book chapter verse of the Bible where
Speaker 3: Satan does something that is not either at God's command
Speaker 3: or uh due to you know, due to God in general?
Speaker 3: Can can you point to a book chapter verse where
Speaker 3: he does something that's that's you know, outside of God's Yeah.
Speaker 5: When he tried to attempt Jesus in the in in
Speaker 5: a in a wilderness and.
Speaker 3: Okay, so, so the best you've got is is Satan
Speaker 3: twerked for Jesus and tempted him in the desert.
Speaker 2: But wasn't that part of the plant right right?
Speaker 5: Is in the Bible.
Speaker 3: He doesn't say twerking. I was being hyperbolic.
Speaker 6: Oh no, but yeah, that that's that's to give you something.
Speaker 5: So that's that's what it is. He tried to turn
Speaker 5: and get behind me, and and that was that.
Speaker 3: So so so Satan did something that God didn't want
Speaker 3: him to do, and God didn't stop him from doing it.
Speaker 3: And did God know that Satan was going to tempt Jesus?
Speaker 5: I don't know. It doesn't sit in a scripture.
Speaker 3: I mean, is God omniscient? Does God know everything?
Speaker 5: Oh? That's that's a good question. I don't don't. I
Speaker 5: don't think.
Speaker 3: Okay, you know, it's really hard to discuss Christian theology
Speaker 3: with you, Andrew. When you're all over the place about
Speaker 3: Christian theology, it kind of seems like you're in the
Speaker 3: process of making up your own theology to fit in
Speaker 3: whatever narrative works in your head. That's what it seems
Speaker 3: like to me. I don't. I don't know, what do
Speaker 3: you think think. I don't.
Speaker 5: I don't change I don't change the topic.
Speaker 3: You I didn't claim that you changed the topic.
Speaker 6: I mean I didn't just I'm all over the place.
Speaker 5: I was just answering your questions. I didn't I didn't
Speaker 5: take us all over the place.
Speaker 3: No, I'm saying that your theology is all over the place,
Speaker 3: like you're not sticking to like a Christian theology. You're
Speaker 3: just whenever we ask you about something concerned with the topic,
Speaker 3: you just throw in some random bullshit that you know,
Speaker 3: is is a little difficult for us to interact with
Speaker 3: because it's a lot like going to a buffet and
Speaker 3: you're mixing like the fucking lettuce with goddamn ribs, and uh,
Speaker 3: you know, you know, it's just it's really, it's really
Speaker 3: fucking weird for you to come in here throw out gnosticism,
Speaker 3: like and I don't know who Satan is, which is bullshit.
Speaker 3: It's like, I don't know who Satan is, Well, it's
Speaker 3: Lucifer and Satan the same character. Like, like, it's just
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's just a little difficult to interact
Speaker 3: with somebody who's actively doing buffet Christianity in in the
Speaker 3: weirdest possible way.
Speaker 5: But thinker said that everybody got their own version of Christianity.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean yeah, eventually people just pick out the
Speaker 3: parts that they like.
Speaker 2: Wait, did you hear me say that?
Speaker 3: You said, I don't know.
Speaker 5: Honestly, there are multiple different Yeah, she said, there are
Speaker 5: multiple different things of Christianity. There there's there's different interpretations
Speaker 5: and different different uh religions of sex of Christianity. That
Speaker 5: ain't that's what that's what ain't what's your said?
Speaker 2: Did I say that today in this conversation with you?
Speaker 5: Yeah? Yeah, you said you said there are different uh
Speaker 5: sex of Christianity.
Speaker 6: They're different. Uh it was it came from the topic of.
Speaker 5: What I killed thirty people or something like that, he said, everybody.
Speaker 1: I just we were talking about interpretations, I said, I said,
Speaker 1: each Christian has their own interpretation.
Speaker 2: Because you were all hearing from a god.
Speaker 1: I didn't say anything about and talk to you about
Speaker 1: different sex of Christianity.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but godless Engineer said that that I'm all over
Speaker 5: the place. I have my own thing, and every Christian
Speaker 5: you talk to is going to say something different, Like
Speaker 5: we're not going to say right.
Speaker 1: But do you see how we can't even have a
Speaker 1: conversation with you about one topic because you you have
Speaker 1: about five different Jesus in your head. Do you see
Speaker 1: the chaos that it is created and just this conversation.
Speaker 1: Imagine if everybody thought like you and they their gods
Speaker 1: was telling them to murder, to rape kids, to traffic,
Speaker 1: to enslave, to steal.
Speaker 2: Imagine the chaos that that would cause.
Speaker 1: Like right now, this conversation is chaotic, Like we cannot
Speaker 1: get a line of questioning down, We can't get an
Speaker 1: understanding because you keep jumping from idea to idea.
Speaker 5: Well, well, look at Christians live their lives. Are they
Speaker 5: are they listening? Are they going around killing people because
Speaker 5: God told them to?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, sometimes doing that?
Speaker 5: And that's that's all dared a world.
Speaker 3: Don't go in, don't go don't go into the Islam thing.
Speaker 3: We're we're focusing on Christianity. They're both Abrahamic religions. Both
Speaker 3: of them have a horrible fundamentalist sex that are associated
Speaker 3: with the core theology of Abrahamic faiths in general. So
Speaker 3: don't try to pivot to Islam as if Islam is worse.
Speaker 3: Islam is just at a different point in its life cycle.
Speaker 3: Than Christianity. That's all that is.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but look at okay, look at Christianity. Christian even
Speaker 5: if you look at data, they have some of the
Speaker 5: best metrics when it comes to outcomes. They're not going
Speaker 5: around murdering and killing people in math like that. And
Speaker 5: and every Christian has its own different interpretation of what
Speaker 5: they think.
Speaker 3: Hey, hey, hey, Andrew, Andrew what Andrew? What religion was?
Speaker 3: Timothy McVeigh I have no idea. Okay, yeah, sorry, I
Speaker 3: forgot europe to.
Speaker 5: No, he didn't. He didn't bomb because he was a Christian.
Speaker 3: They did.
Speaker 5: No, he did. He bombed because he thought the government
Speaker 5: was scoring him over.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, he he bought he he uh. He
Speaker 3: did his bombing uh because of the UH the Waco incident,
Speaker 3: and he was retaliating against the government because of UH.
Speaker 3: He perceived the government to be directly responsible for attacking
Speaker 3: a Christian sect, a Christian sect that, while he may
Speaker 3: not have been part of, he felt uh companionship with
Speaker 3: that sect because they were both Christian and so they
Speaker 3: he was. He attacked the US government building for that
Speaker 3: particular reason. He was very Christian. And there's not only him,
Speaker 3: but there are plenty of other people in in the
Speaker 3: his in the history of this nation that have been
Speaker 3: Christian and have been on a violent, violent rampages. Right,
Speaker 3: Dylan Rufe over there in South Carolina, Do you want
Speaker 3: me to pull up a list of Christian domestic terrorists
Speaker 3: in America? Don't act like Christians aren't violent. They are violent, independent, independent,
Speaker 3: fundamentalist Baptists are are violent in general.
Speaker 6: I mean, is that the same kind of sign up
Speaker 6: for church?
Speaker 3: Yes, he shut he shut up a black church because
Speaker 3: he's a racist, piece of ship.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it seemed like he did it because he was racist,
Speaker 5: not because he was Like, did it because of Christianity?
Speaker 3: He was a Christian.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but I'm saying he didn't do it because he
Speaker 5: was in the name of Christianity.
Speaker 6: He did it because he was a race.
Speaker 5: He was racist because he wanted to sign up a
Speaker 5: white church. Oh uh, somebody are you there?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think godless lost connection.
Speaker 1: But but your your question was are Christians going around
Speaker 1: killing people? And the answers, yes, and that's what he did.
Speaker 1: He was a Christian. You adding you adding that he
Speaker 1: was a racist doesn't change the fact that.
Speaker 2: He was a Christian.
Speaker 1: And if your God's spirit is on him, and your
Speaker 1: God's spirit is giving him strength and moving him to
Speaker 1: do that. That's something that your God gave him strength
Speaker 1: and moved him to do. And you said that, if
Speaker 1: your God tells you to do that, that is good,
Speaker 1: that is not evil.
Speaker 5: Yeah, but well, I don't know if God's spirit moved
Speaker 5: him to ghost shore up a black church. I think
Speaker 5: the only thing I moved them to grow shot up
Speaker 5: a black church was his hatred for black people.
Speaker 1: Like I don't think God again that that was my
Speaker 1: point in the beginning, just what you just said. I
Speaker 1: don't know if God's spirit told him to do that.
Speaker 1: Nobody has access to your mind. When you all say
Speaker 1: God said so. If you believe that your God's spirit.
Speaker 2: Is speaking to you and moving you to.
Speaker 1: Do something, and you say, well, God, evil is not
Speaker 1: obeying God or doing something against the purpose of God,
Speaker 1: then anything a person says and God.
Speaker 2: Told them to do is not evil. It's always good for.
Speaker 5: Anybody that worships the old church, that worships God in
Speaker 5: the Bible would be evil by your by your standard, right.
Speaker 3: No, not necessarily, but it does he believe this.
Speaker 2: I can't hear him.
Speaker 3: Ugardless, Well I could, I can hear you, Andrew think
Speaker 3: you can't hear me. I hear you, Yeah, he can,
Speaker 3: Andrew can hear both of us. But think you can't
Speaker 3: hear me. Uh, I'm showing. I'm showing levels coming in
Speaker 3: on my end. Okay, Uh, I guess I'm I'm gonna
Speaker 3: drop real quick. Uh, and uh I'm gonna rejoin you.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think they're having to fix God's mind.
Speaker 2: Does that make sense?
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 2: Anyone who would worship that god.
Speaker 1: And say that the things that that God commands are evil?
Speaker 3: Like? What?
Speaker 2: Let me ask you a question, Andrew? What reason?
Speaker 5: All right?
Speaker 3: Can you hear me now?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, Andrew?
Speaker 1: What reason would an all powerful god who you believe
Speaker 1: has the power to wake people up.
Speaker 2: In the morning? Correct? Your God waits people up?
Speaker 8: Huh?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 1: What reason would that God need to employ human beings
Speaker 1: to kill the people that he wakes up every morning?
Speaker 1: Like they don't wake up unless your God wakes them up?
Speaker 1: What reason would he need to then employ human beings
Speaker 1: to go and murder humans whom your God woke up
Speaker 1: that morning.
Speaker 5: For whatever reason? Against people who war against some.
Speaker 6: Against some who turn against him, or.
Speaker 5: Or who were against his people.
Speaker 1: But hold on, but if he wakes them up right,
Speaker 1: they don't wake up unless he wakes.
Speaker 2: Them up right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 1: So if he does not want people on the earth,
Speaker 1: he doesn't want them living because they don't worship him,
Speaker 1: why wake them up just so that he can command
Speaker 1: humans to murder them?
Speaker 2: Why not just not wake them up?
Speaker 5: I mean that's a good point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because your God wants humans to do evil shit.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so then I mean if you if God wants
Speaker 5: Persians to do evil things, and you believe that, because
Speaker 5: when I talk to circularists, they say, oh, we don't
Speaker 5: believe Christians are evil, but they do believe Christians are evil.
Speaker 2: The Christians that do evil shit.
Speaker 6: Evil stuff.
Speaker 9: Huh.
Speaker 5: The ones that don't do the ones that don't do
Speaker 5: the stuff, they also follow the same God. So you
Speaker 5: will believe that.
Speaker 1: But you're you're here justifying so that would make you evil, Andrew,
Speaker 1: You're here saying that. You literally asked me what would
Speaker 1: be wrong with just killing random people?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Like that makes you evil.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a scripture, and Andrew, There's a scripture
Speaker 1: and the Bible that says God chooses the foolish things
Speaker 1: to confound the wise, to confuse the Wise.
Speaker 2: Are you familiar with that scripture? Andrew?
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And in Zachariah it talks about a foolish shepherd and
Speaker 1: Zachariah eleven and Hebrew that word is evailee, right, and
Speaker 1: the transliteration of that.
Speaker 2: Is spelled like evil.
Speaker 1: And I was reading that and I was like, God
Speaker 1: chooses the evil things to confound, to confuse the wise.
Speaker 1: Your God does evil shit where your God can consider
Speaker 1: us foolish. What your God considers foolish is what we
Speaker 1: would call evil. So your God wants humans to do
Speaker 1: evil shit to confuse people, and so that you can
Speaker 1: call it good because you're you're beholding to this guy.
Speaker 1: You're you're you're afraid of this God, and so you
Speaker 1: justify evil shit.
Speaker 6: If this guy was real, you wouldn't be afraid of it.
Speaker 1: Now, if the God is real, it's real in your minds.
Speaker 1: Human beings do fuck shit because of this belief God
Speaker 1: is real. That's why I don't like having conversations with
Speaker 1: people about.
Speaker 2: Prove God ex this.
Speaker 1: Y'all are the gods like y'all carry the God around
Speaker 1: with you and your hearts and in your minds, and
Speaker 1: you are the God's arms, legs, feet, mouth.
Speaker 5: So why do circulars who don't believe in God and
Speaker 5: why do.
Speaker 6: They still do evil stuff?
Speaker 1: Because like humans do evil shit, but you are doing
Speaker 1: evil shit because that God told you to. And then
Speaker 1: you try to convince other people that they need to
Speaker 1: do evil shitfore God.
Speaker 6: Saying, so they shouldn't do it in the name of God.
Speaker 2: Right, they shouldn't do evil shit, period. It is harder to.
Speaker 1: Get It's harder to get a human being not to
Speaker 1: do evil shit when you have a fear.
Speaker 2: Of a god.
Speaker 1: A secularist right that does something bad is does the
Speaker 1: bad because they wanted to do the bad, and they
Speaker 1: hold themselves accountable.
Speaker 2: So it's easier to get a secularist.
Speaker 1: To change their behavior and to take accountability. Then it
Speaker 1: is with someone who subscribes to a god or a
Speaker 1: devil or demons because you are not used to taking
Speaker 1: accountability and you are afraid of You are afraid of
Speaker 1: a god.
Speaker 2: You are afraid of God might get you if you
Speaker 2: don't obey.
Speaker 1: You don't know what's real, you're afraid of losing community
Speaker 1: human beings. Just because someone is secularist doesn't mean they.
Speaker 2: Can't do any bad or do any wrong.
Speaker 1: But I think it is more likely that a person
Speaker 1: that believes that they are being guided by a god
Speaker 1: will do evil if they believe that God.
Speaker 2: Is telling them to, especially this one.
Speaker 5: But do you believe that the world will be a
Speaker 5: better place if everybody was asist there were no religious
Speaker 5: people on earth and everybody you believe if we get
Speaker 5: rid of religion, the world will be a better place, right?
Speaker 2: I do?
Speaker 1: If we have more critical thinkers, yes, If we have
Speaker 1: more critical thinkers, yes, I do.
Speaker 5: Okay? In North Korea? Is that a better brains?
Speaker 2: I never been to Nor Korea?
Speaker 6: Have you no talking about you?
Speaker 2: Asking me about nor care? You want me to lie
Speaker 2: to you. I've not been to North Korea. I don't know.
Speaker 6: I can. Lad, you're several secular countries that are not
Speaker 6: the best.
Speaker 2: How do you know.
Speaker 5: Because they self their country is self? ID are secular?
Speaker 2: How do you know what the quality of life is there?
Speaker 6: Okay, let's say China mostly secular.
Speaker 1: You're like, have you been to China? So how do
Speaker 1: you know what the quality of life is there?
Speaker 6: Are you gonna look up the loves of people?
Speaker 5: You can look up their happy the happiness and that's
Speaker 5: some those people. Why do Christmas support them.
Speaker 2: Have you looked up the happiness in the happiness?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 8: What is it?
Speaker 5: I have to go back and look it up.
Speaker 3: You know, I halfway expected him to just throw out
Speaker 3: a random numbers. Goodness, happiness over there is twelve.
Speaker 1: But do you see how your love of your God
Speaker 1: moves you to just say random shit like your love
Speaker 1: of your God moves you to even lie?
Speaker 5: And how come Christians aren't mass murdered people in large
Speaker 5: numbers today?
Speaker 1: They do you know that the majority? Do you know
Speaker 1: that the majority of people in jail are believers of
Speaker 1: a god? A high number of them in the US
Speaker 1: are Christians? Yeah, but less than one percent of people
Speaker 1: in jail are atheists.
Speaker 5: Well, how many of those people in jail convert to
Speaker 5: Christianity or to Islam or whatever.
Speaker 6: Because a lot of people that go.
Speaker 1: To jail they convert, less than one percent are atheists.
Speaker 1: Even if the small number converted, Whether it's not big
Speaker 1: enough right to discount the fact that the majority of
Speaker 1: people in jail believe in a god overwhelmed believe in
Speaker 1: the Abrahamic God.
Speaker 5: First of all, Well, most of the country isn't atheist.
Speaker 5: Most of the country is religious.
Speaker 6: Most of the world is religious.
Speaker 2: Stop for a second. Stop for a second, think about it.
Speaker 1: Do you think the world is a is a peaceful
Speaker 1: place or do you think the world is filled with
Speaker 1: evil and wickedness.
Speaker 6: I think it's both both.
Speaker 2: It can't be it can't be both. Is it peaceful?
Speaker 2: Is the world peaceful? Or is it filled with war? Famine?
Speaker 1: Uh, genocide, uh, trafficking? Hu artist said femine like, is
Speaker 1: the world filled with wickedness or is.
Speaker 2: This a utopia?
Speaker 6: The world is filled with wickedness.
Speaker 3: That's true.
Speaker 2: Mm hm.
Speaker 1: And you just said that the majority of the world
Speaker 1: believes in the Abrahamic God.
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying. They're not the Abrahamic God specifically,
Speaker 5: but the majority of the world is religious. They have
Speaker 5: like God, they worst god necessarily Brahmic God for Hindu
Speaker 5: of witches or whatever, they worse the entities Nordics. They
Speaker 5: worship the Nordic gods.
Speaker 6: So it's just gods in general.
Speaker 1: Overwhelmingly, the majority of the world believes in the Abrahamic God.
Speaker 1: That's a That's about one billion Persians that believe in Zorationism,
Speaker 1: about one billion Hindus.
Speaker 2: There's one point.
Speaker 1: Eight billion Catholics, two point four billion Christians and about
Speaker 1: I don't know hundreds of millions of Muslims. I don't
Speaker 1: think there's billions. I don't think Muslims have hit billions yet.
Speaker 3: Have they I don't think so. They're closing in.
Speaker 2: Fact, yeah, they're closing in.
Speaker 1: But the majority believe in the Abrahamic God, overwhelmingly believe
Speaker 1: in Jesus. And the world is an evil place. And
Speaker 1: so if the influence of Jesus is a indication of
Speaker 1: what your heaven is going to be like, we would
Speaker 1: have to turn and look at the Christians half for y'all,
Speaker 1: most of y'all are in jail. The jealous feel with Christians,
Speaker 1: the jealous feel with Christians the jail. The world is
Speaker 1: filled with war, femine uh uh, slavery, genocide, poverty, and
Speaker 1: it's overwhelmingly the Abrahamic God. The human beings are overwhelmingly
Speaker 1: carrying the Abrahamic God.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's true, but that's because the reason why most
Speaker 5: people are in secular is your seculars don't appeal to
Speaker 5: nobody like sul Once your dog you're going to dirt,
Speaker 5: everything goes dark.
Speaker 6: That's it you see to exist.
Speaker 5: People don't like that. That's why most of the world
Speaker 5: are seculars.
Speaker 1: Right, Most of you are willing to sacrifice the well
Speaker 1: being of other humans for your own, for yourself. It's
Speaker 1: a selfish religion. You you are willing to look the
Speaker 1: other way. You are willing to exchange the famine, the war,
Speaker 1: the poverty so that you could go to heaven. You're
Speaker 1: basically practicing human sacrifice every day. You accept it a
Speaker 1: human sacrifice. Hold on, look, you accept human sacrifice so
Speaker 1: that you don't have to pay for your wrongdoings. And
Speaker 1: then you continue to allow suffering or you know, justify
Speaker 1: suffering in the name of your God so that you
Speaker 1: could go to heaven. So you continue to sacrifice the
Speaker 1: well being of other humans. It's just a circle of
Speaker 1: human sacrifice, over and over and over again.
Speaker 2: That's evil.
Speaker 5: That's not true because most most of the people who
Speaker 5: do the most charities, who do the most giving, who
Speaker 5: do the most donations, are overwhelmingly Christians. I've never seen
Speaker 5: secular risks line up table, you've seen the home, I've
Speaker 5: ever seen it, never seen it. The people who do
Speaker 5: that are the most all persons.
Speaker 1: You know why you don't know that because we're not
Speaker 1: too in our own horn out here. Try to get
Speaker 1: tax price for doing it, but we do, we do it.
Speaker 1: It's just oh, ladies, your churches are doing it. Go ahead, guns.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So so just to address this real quick, the
Speaker 3: problem with your stat there, uh, Andrew, is the fact
Speaker 3: that typically atheists and secularists are going to be more
Speaker 3: leftist leaning, and left leaning individuals would prefer to see
Speaker 3: the government actually provide more safety nets and everything like
Speaker 3: that so that the government can provide for people as
Speaker 3: opposed to requiring the bulk of the nation to do
Speaker 3: their charitable donations. And also a bulk of these charitable
Speaker 3: donations are going to the church, and the churches they
Speaker 3: don't actually help people out. I don't know if you've
Speaker 3: seen that one girl over there on TikTok going around
Speaker 3: asking churches, hey, I've got a starving baby, you give
Speaker 3: me formula, And all of the churches turned them away.
Speaker 3: But you know who told them, told this girl, uh
Speaker 3: with without any kind of hesitation, to come down and
Speaker 3: we will get you some some formula. Mosques. Mosques are
Speaker 3: the ones that accepted her and was like, hey, we'll
Speaker 3: we'll we'll give you some maybe formula. All of the
Speaker 3: churches they were like, no, we don't do that. Maybe
Speaker 3: you should go to like a food pantry or something
Speaker 3: like that. So, no, these churches don't help people. The
Speaker 3: charitable giving that you're reporting right here do not go
Speaker 3: to helping people. There are Christian charitable organizations out there,
Speaker 3: and that's perfectly fine. But to misrepresent the charitable givings
Speaker 3: of Christians as all being to these charitable organizations that
Speaker 3: actually do do good is a total misrepresentation of the
Speaker 3: donations there.
Speaker 5: Oh no, all, I don't say all I said, and
Speaker 5: you're with you, broungo you said that. Oh the girl
Speaker 5: as a farmer from from from Muslims, which is still religious.
Speaker 5: It was a secularist that gave her the formula. There
Speaker 5: were Muslims so so secular.
Speaker 3: Because she was calling religious institutions Andrew, what the fuck
Speaker 3: is your problem? Like, are you seriously this dnse? Are
Speaker 3: you purposely being this dense?
Speaker 8: Nope?
Speaker 5: The secularists know about that. She was doing this right,
Speaker 5: You know about.
Speaker 3: It because she was recording them and putting them on
Speaker 3: TikTok as a test of religious institutions.
Speaker 5: And she got help from a religious institution, a.
Speaker 3: Muslim one that you threw under a bus earlier.
Speaker 5: I didn't throw no muslim moss under the bush.
Speaker 3: Yeah you did. You threw you threw them under the bus.
Speaker 5: I didn't think, Yeah you did.
Speaker 3: You could ease. Everybody could go back and re listen
Speaker 3: to the past fifty minutes and you'll hear Andrew throwing
Speaker 3: the Muslims under the bus. Right, you did that. But
Speaker 3: I know, specifically because I brought it up, that Islam
Speaker 3: is at a different point in its life cycle than
Speaker 3: Christianity is. That's the only difference between the two. Otherwise,
Speaker 3: they're the same Abrahamic religion. They're the same shitty basis
Speaker 3: for the religion. Right, they both have fundamental and fundamentalist
Speaker 3: aspects to them that make them shitty. They're both the same.
Speaker 3: I remember making that several several minutes ago.
Speaker 5: I get what you're saying, But you're saying I threw
Speaker 5: a mosque. I didn't throw the mosque.
Speaker 6: I just said no.
Speaker 3: No, I said Muslims. You threw Muslims under the bus.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I didn't say Musclims. I'm not talking about individual Musclis.
Speaker 5: I'm talking about Islam.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you're being so fucking up to I
Speaker 3: don't know, I'm I'm I'm done. I don't know if
Speaker 3: Thinker still wants to argue with you, but I'm fucking
Speaker 3: done with you, you know, honestly, Andrew, after you admitted
Speaker 3: that that P three deos are perfectly fine in your worldview,
Speaker 3: I'm just I'm just I've been done with you.
Speaker 2: For a while. Where was I when he said that.
Speaker 3: It was a while ago.
Speaker 5: I said that, that's that's straight On taps, he talked
Speaker 5: about the debate that I had with Bible God.
Speaker 3: I was on the show with Bible Guy. It was
Speaker 3: my show with the with Dalton the Bible Guy, and
Speaker 3: you admitted that it was perfectly fine to to grape
Speaker 3: a teenage child. So I'm I've just been done with
Speaker 3: you for a while now.
Speaker 5: Oh, Bible Guys. No, I did not I admant that
Speaker 5: that's a lie.
Speaker 6: I did not admit that.
Speaker 3: No. I mean that's the reason why you were initially
Speaker 3: banned from the line. So no, I mean, that's that's it. Also,
Speaker 3: another another uh person, another guest that I brought on
Speaker 3: there clocked you for that months before then. So no, Andrew,
Speaker 3: You're you're totally that kind of ship bag.
Speaker 5: No, he just he only said that because he got
Speaker 5: offended when I told him to prove that God raped
Speaker 5: Mary and the Bible where said that he couldn't prove it,
Speaker 5: and then he thought I was justifying freaking race the
Speaker 5: rate you were of young girls, and that wasn't.
Speaker 3: No, I wasn't.
Speaker 7: Yay, you were.
Speaker 3: I've got it on my channel. It's everywhere, Andrew, everybody
Speaker 3: can see that. That's what she did to save them.
Speaker 6: That's not what I did.
Speaker 5: That's just straight up chat all.
Speaker 3: Right, here you go, Andrew? Was it wrong for God
Speaker 3: to force fully impregnate Mary when she was fourteen years old?
Speaker 5: Are you asking me a question? Now? Are you're playing
Speaker 5: a video?
Speaker 3: No? No, no, I'm not playing a video. I'm asking
Speaker 3: you a question, Andrew. Was it wrong of God to
Speaker 3: forcefully impregnate a fourteen year old child?
Speaker 6: If he did it by force? Yeah, that would be wrong.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So this, this contradicts what you said earlier that
Speaker 3: if it's part of God's purpose, then it's good. That's
Speaker 3: what you said, It was part of God's purpose to
Speaker 3: impregnate a fourteen year old child.
Speaker 5: Well she wasn't. Again, we haven't established us she was fourteen?
Speaker 3: Oh my God?
Speaker 1: Like, why do y'all like not read this story in
Speaker 1: his cultural context at that time.
Speaker 2: Look, the marriage age of a young girl.
Speaker 1: In first century wrong would have been between the ages
Speaker 1: of twelve and fourteen. She was betrothed Mary herself, she
Speaker 1: was betrothed.
Speaker 5: That's fine, but it doesn't mean as she was pregnant at.
Speaker 2: Fourteen, she was betrothed. And the marriage age.
Speaker 1: At that time, during that time in history was between
Speaker 1: the ages of twelve and fourteen. She was already betrothed
Speaker 1: to Joseph.
Speaker 5: Can you show me any evidence in the Bible or
Speaker 5: any rabbis I said Mary was fourteen, not what she
Speaker 5: might most see.
Speaker 3: It's this kind of ultra specific nonsense that you need
Speaker 3: in order to accept the cultural context here. Because I
Speaker 3: could bring up Victor P. Hamilton his work where he
Speaker 3: establishes the current or not current, but at that particular time,
Speaker 3: the contemporary practices of fathers and marriage and everything like that.
Speaker 3: Like you, father could sell his daughter before she before
Speaker 3: she was even eight years old, and there was no
Speaker 3: way for her to refuse that. It was also the
Speaker 3: fact that he establishes that in the Jewish culture at
Speaker 3: that time, girls were married off at fourteen as soon
Speaker 3: as they as soon as they went through puberty. These
Speaker 3: are all things that are culturally established and established, like
Speaker 3: in the Talmud and all this other stuff. So you
Speaker 3: can't sit because that's where that's where Victor P. Hamilton
Speaker 3: pulls his information from. But you don't want to admit
Speaker 3: that because you have to make some kind of pedantic
Speaker 3: argument making marry any any other age other than a child.
Speaker 3: But in your worldview, the purpose of God was to
Speaker 3: impregnate a fourteen year old child, and you have to
Speaker 3: say that's good. Is it good to impregnate for God
Speaker 3: to impregnate a fourteen year old child? No, No, it's
Speaker 3: not so. Now you're being a hypocrite. No I'm not,
Speaker 3: Yes you are. It was God's purpose to impregnate a
Speaker 3: fourteen year old child, as you established at the beginning
Speaker 3: of this call. Anything that's outside of God's purpose is evil.
Speaker 3: So it would be evil for God not to rape
Speaker 3: that fourteen year old child.
Speaker 5: No, no, anything that sounds out of God's purpose would
Speaker 5: be evil. It's not a great purpose to impregnate a
Speaker 5: fourteen year old.
Speaker 3: Then why did he do it?
Speaker 1: Like take away the age? Take away the age, just
Speaker 1: her period?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: Was it evil for your God to just rape her
Speaker 1: period and put his seat in her without her permission
Speaker 1: period and then tell her after the fact.
Speaker 5: God, God didn't rape Mary, Like, I don't know why
Speaker 5: y'all keep saying that.
Speaker 1: Did he not send an aim it to her and say, hey, yo,
Speaker 1: you bring me with God's child?
Speaker 5: No he didn't say hey yo. No he didn't say that.
Speaker 8: See.
Speaker 3: See this is the pedanic shit I'm talking about with Andrew.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm done trying.
Speaker 3: To No, sorry, sorry I dropped him. Look, I'm done
Speaker 3: with the pedantic shiit of like, no, he didn't say ayo,
Speaker 3: Like are you serious? Like that's the thing you object
Speaker 3: to in that? Like that's just fucking dumb.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: We got more calls about God not evil, and then
Speaker 1: we have some science calls.
Speaker 8: What do you want?
Speaker 3: I'm good either way. I'm here for it.
Speaker 1: All right, let's see this person has been waiting a while,
Speaker 1: so we're gonna read to bring them on.
Speaker 2: I think this is your wheelhouse. I deny, yep.
Speaker 3: We got James up here. Hey there, James, can you
Speaker 3: hear us?
Speaker 7: James from Oklahoma?
Speaker 6: And you know herew was kind of all.
Speaker 7: Over the place. My mom had a debate book back
Speaker 7: in the nineteen fifties.
Speaker 6: And back then there were still a lot of stuff.
Speaker 7: Going on with the racial fas. And one of the
Speaker 7: statements in there, about fifty pages in it, says, if
Speaker 7: a whole group of men get together and they decide
Speaker 7: they want to go out and hang a man or
Speaker 7: lynch a man, he says, what you have is a consensus.
Speaker 7: But a consensus bears neither merit nor morality. It is
Speaker 7: simply a consensus. You brought up several things about laws
Speaker 7: and morals. Don't we have laws that prevent murder? Don't
Speaker 7: we have laws that do this? Well, if you think
Speaker 7: about every single person coming together, that they have representatives
Speaker 7: that go up and the representatives pass laws, they say, hey,
Speaker 7: it's not good if people kill each other off. Well,
Speaker 7: you have a consensus, but what you have is not moral.
Speaker 7: In order to have a moral you have to have
Speaker 7: something outside of a human consensus that establishes that moral boundary.
Speaker 7: And in the Bible, I see that God has established
Speaker 7: a morality, and he said this is what.
Speaker 6: Passed to a line up number one.
Speaker 7: If you look at the first four things in the
Speaker 7: Ten Commandments, it first establishes a moral alignment with God
Speaker 7: that we have to give him God, God have to
Speaker 7: serve him, and him only shall we serve.
Speaker 6: And then it has.
Speaker 7: Our alignment between man and man, first man and.
Speaker 8: God, and then man and man.
Speaker 7: And the loss heirs, to show that we are incapable
Speaker 7: of kind of aligning.
Speaker 3: James, James, I want to I want to test you
Speaker 3: on this real quick. So Deuteronomy no, sorry, Exodus twenty
Speaker 3: one to seven says that a father may sell his
Speaker 3: daughter as a slave to a man for a sexual pleasure.
Speaker 3: Is that good or bad?
Speaker 8: Okay?
Speaker 7: Can you read that actual verse to me?
Speaker 3: Yes? I can. Well, let me look it up real quick.
Speaker 1: Well, before we get to that, I just want to add,
Speaker 1: like your God was okay with people being hung like
Speaker 1: David hand it over seven of sal sons. Hold on,
Speaker 1: David handed over seven of salt sons to be hung
Speaker 1: to end of family, right, Like we did not get
Speaker 1: our morals to not hang humans from your God. If anything,
Speaker 1: they believe that they could hang humans because your God
Speaker 1: allowed it. I just want to add that, Wow, godless finds.
Speaker 2: That scripture for you because that wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So this is Exodus, James, hold on, this is
Speaker 3: Exodus twenty one. I'm starting in twenty one seven. If
Speaker 3: a man sells his daughter as a slave, she is
Speaker 3: not to be freed in the same way as male
Speaker 3: slaves are. So this is like the male slaves, meaning
Speaker 3: the indentured servants that Hebrew Israelite slaves. They are freed
Speaker 3: every six years, I believe it is, and then in
Speaker 3: the jubilee year. Yeah, well they serve six years and
Speaker 3: then they're free in the seventh year. But if a
Speaker 3: man sells his daughter as a slave, she is a
Speaker 3: slave for a life until the man, you know, dismisses
Speaker 3: her and everything like that, after he's used her up
Speaker 3: and everything. So now is that is that good or
Speaker 3: is that bad?
Speaker 7: Well, let's let's look at some of the contexts or
Speaker 7: some of the things that you had before already, and
Speaker 7: one is that one is that uh uh as far
Speaker 7: as the battles with the Amalekites and the hamstring, the
Speaker 7: horses that you mentioned, and some of the buds sacrifices,
Speaker 7: if we go back and look at the context of
Speaker 7: a lot of those things, uh.
Speaker 1: Can you godless question because we don't want to talk
Speaker 1: to you about a conversation we had with Andrew.
Speaker 7: Well, let me let me, let me tell you a
Speaker 7: little bit with it, because no.
Speaker 1: No, no, can you answer godless quick like? We want
Speaker 1: to have our own conversation with you. We don't want
Speaker 1: to carry over a Andrew. Can you answer godless question?
Speaker 2: Please?
Speaker 7: In the context twitter, a man uh sells the daughter
Speaker 7: if if it says as a slave or as a bride,
Speaker 7: is it as a brighter or is it as a slave?
Speaker 7: What would the original Hebrew context be? Because if he
Speaker 7: sells her is ride then is bound by the marriage,
Speaker 7: and the marriage doesn't release unless the man dies.
Speaker 3: So, James, I think that the problem. So there's two
Speaker 3: different problems here. First of all, the Hebrew does say slave.
Speaker 3: It indicates slave. It uses the word for slave, which
Speaker 3: is a bed uh. That's number one. But also you
Speaker 3: seem to be rationalizing selling women. Why do you want
Speaker 3: to be on the internet I'm rationalizing.
Speaker 8: I'm not.
Speaker 7: I'm not rationalizing the selling of women. But I know
Speaker 7: that a lot of the top times, whenever the context
Speaker 7: of slavery was mentioned, that the slavery was as a
Speaker 7: way of relief for people that were like the indentured servitude.
Speaker 7: Somewhere slavery mentioned.
Speaker 3: Sure, somewhere, So that's right. Some were indentured, indentured servants,
Speaker 3: or debt slavery was a thing at the time. This
Speaker 3: is not that this is a man selling his daughter
Speaker 3: as a slave to another man.
Speaker 7: Right if they're sold into it as a slave, as
Speaker 7: an indentured kind of thing, or as an indebtedness, if
Speaker 7: she is sold.
Speaker 6: To resolve a debt. You know, like back then, whenever.
Speaker 7: A woman was married, she had to have a dowry
Speaker 7: that was given with her. The family had to pay
Speaker 7: for the woman to be married, and that dowry that.
Speaker 3: Was seeing her again. The problem here, James, is that
Speaker 3: you're rationalizing selling women. Why are you rationalizing sex.
Speaker 7: Trafficking, rationalizing the selling of women. I'm saying that a
Speaker 7: lot of times back then the cultural norm was that
Speaker 7: if they were indebted, that they would sell one of
Speaker 7: the women as a bride.
Speaker 8: And that that's.
Speaker 1: Not happening here though, and Exodus twenty one, that's not
Speaker 1: what's happening here. The women are AMA's right, they are
Speaker 1: actual slaves. It says the ki Yim chord is at
Speaker 1: batold Ama te uh a ki zat avan. She was
Speaker 1: a slave, okay, and then when if her master paired
Speaker 1: her with a male slave and they had children. The man,
Speaker 1: if he wanted to stay with his wife and children,
Speaker 1: he had to become a lifetime slave because the woman
Speaker 1: and the children belonged to the master.
Speaker 2: This was breeding.
Speaker 1: The women and the children were lifetime chattel slaves. Only
Speaker 1: the men here were released doing jubilee.
Speaker 7: Well, the man, if he wanted to stay with the wife.
Speaker 1: Then he would be it will become a lifetime slave
Speaker 1: because the wife was a lifetime slave.
Speaker 7: But looking in the context to the hebrew slavery, they
Speaker 7: were required to provide for the servants. They were required
Speaker 7: to provide for the slaves as they would for one
Speaker 7: in their own household.
Speaker 2: So did they in America.
Speaker 1: Like, no one's going to pay a thousand dollars for
Speaker 1: a slave and let them die, right right, So you're
Speaker 1: taking care of your investment. They took care of their investment.
Speaker 1: They didn't do it because they loved them. Slaves were assets.
Speaker 7: They were required not to beat them. They were required, I.
Speaker 1: Mean they wouldn't beat them because again it's their labor.
Speaker 1: Like think about why the Boushewisi didn't want their slaves
Speaker 1: fighting in the Civil War. Well, think about ask yourself
Speaker 1: why the bousheoisie did not want their slaves fighting in
Speaker 1: the Civil War. They paid one thousand dollars per slave.
Speaker 1: You thought that they were going to let them go
Speaker 1: and fight a war. They used the low income, illiterate,
Speaker 1: poor people to.
Speaker 2: Fight for them.
Speaker 1: They did not want to lose their their investments, They
Speaker 1: did not want to lose their assets.
Speaker 3: They also well, well, James, also, uh, there needs to
Speaker 3: be a caveat with that, don't beat your slaves. It's
Speaker 3: you can't beat your slaves till death. If you beat
Speaker 3: your slave, you and they get up, what is it
Speaker 3: after like three days or something like that. As long
Speaker 3: as they live, you can beat them as much as
Speaker 3: you want to. So that's just not even true, James.
Speaker 3: But all this, all this was initially to point out
Speaker 3: this this so called moral system that's outside of human
Speaker 3: influence or something like that. The thing that I have
Speaker 3: a problem with in Christianity is that when you take
Speaker 3: the moral system and you remove the human aspect to
Speaker 3: to the human consideration, and you put it in the
Speaker 3: hands of some deity out there, then you're not doing
Speaker 3: things that are good for human beings. You're doing things
Speaker 3: that are good for the deity. And what's good for
Speaker 3: the deity is definitely not anything concerned with the well
Speaker 3: being of human beings. That's the point that I'm making here.
Speaker 3: If you're going to base your moral system on something
Speaker 3: that's outside of the human experience, then you run the
Speaker 3: risk of doing things that are detrimental to the human experience.
Speaker 3: Tell me, Exodus twenty one seven, what is the benefit
Speaker 3: to the human experience that an omniscient god, supposedly eternal, omniscient, omnipotent,
Speaker 3: omni benevolent God dictated to the fathers of Israel that
Speaker 3: they can sell their daughters as slaves, specifically sexual slaves.
Speaker 8: Let's go to this.
Speaker 7: Verse for that, and that is that whenever Jesus was
Speaker 7: in the temple, he.
Speaker 6: Had some of the people that came up to him
Speaker 6: and said.
Speaker 7: Hey, you know, if he said, you know, if a
Speaker 7: woman was married, then she.
Speaker 8: Ended up married.
Speaker 7: And you know, he died, and the next brother came in,
Speaker 7: and he died, and the next brother came in the
Speaker 7: next and he's like, you know, why is why is this?
Speaker 5: You know, how is this?
Speaker 8: How's this going to be?
Speaker 7: And he said, well, you know that the marriage in
Speaker 7: the beginning was one man, one woman, one lifetime, and
Speaker 7: then they said, well, if that's true, no, why did
Speaker 7: God get No?
Speaker 3: No, No, that's just not true. That is not true.
Speaker 3: It's not it's not been one man, one woman. It's
Speaker 3: it's one woman compared to a man. But the man
Speaker 3: can have multiple wives and concubines.
Speaker 7: But he said, what, how was it in the beginning?
Speaker 7: And he said it was that God brought the woman
Speaker 7: to the man and they were married and he's And
Speaker 7: they said, well, why is it then that the Abraham
Speaker 7: gave us the ruling for divorce? And he said, because
Speaker 7: your hearts are hard?
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Wait, do you mean Moses in the inherent sinful Yeah,
Speaker 7: Moses in the inherent sinfulness of man. You know, when
Speaker 7: we were in the garden, God basically gave us work
Speaker 7: to do. He said, dress it and keep it. And
Speaker 7: he said eat whatever you want except for this one fruit,
Speaker 7: the knowledge of the tree of good.
Speaker 3: James, James, I'm sorry, We're we're going all over the
Speaker 3: place here. This is really not this is not having
Speaker 3: a giant effect on me right now, primarily because God
Speaker 3: at one time aduke into fireball up two priests asses
Speaker 3: and cause them to spontaneously combust when uh, when they
Speaker 3: used the wrong fire to light his fucking incense, and
Speaker 3: you're sitting here telling me, well, God's God's heart was
Speaker 3: I mean, he said that the human's hearts were just
Speaker 3: too hard for divorce and all this other shit, and
Speaker 3: they were just too hard for him to say, don't
Speaker 3: sell your daughters as sexual slaves. Like, are you He
Speaker 3: killed two people for using the wrong kind of fire
Speaker 3: to do it, and you're telling me that it was
Speaker 3: too much for God to say, Hey, don't sell children
Speaker 3: as sexual slaves. Get the fuck out of here, James.
Speaker 7: The spirit of the spirit of the two guys that
Speaker 7: burned the wrong incense, he told them what kind of
Speaker 7: chance to burn, and that burned it for the wrong reasons.
Speaker 3: Just right over your head, James, do you understand the
Speaker 3: problem that can you? Can you maybe steal man the
Speaker 3: problem that I have.
Speaker 7: I can see what's your what you're going to that
Speaker 7: the context of selling the girl with the for the
Speaker 7: as a full time as a long term slave.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, I had I have a problem with
Speaker 3: the hypocrisy of the whole idea that humans hearts were
Speaker 3: so hard that God had to allow divorce and other
Speaker 3: bad things, but at the same time he requires a
Speaker 3: specific kind of fire in order to light his incense
Speaker 3: with and he kills two priests because of it. But
Speaker 3: apparently it's just way too much for God to be, like, Hey,
Speaker 3: don't sell your daughters as slaves. Also, women are human
Speaker 3: beings too, don't treat them like their property. But you
Speaker 3: know what, God still at Exodus twenty seventeen says women
Speaker 3: are property just like your chattel. Slaves are your property too,
Speaker 3: So like you, don't sit there and tell me that
Speaker 3: human's hearts were too hard. When God requires specific fire
Speaker 3: and kills people when they use the wrong kind of fire.
Speaker 3: God also killed a bunch of israel Elites because they
Speaker 3: were a bit too lippy. Well with him complaining about
Speaker 3: shit in the desert, God caused an entire generation of
Speaker 3: Israelites to die wandering in the desert because Moses fucking
Speaker 3: smacked a rock instead of yelling at it. Don't sit
Speaker 3: there and tell me that humans hearts were too hard
Speaker 3: to tell them to stop selling women as slaves.
Speaker 7: Well, I'm telling you this, and that is that if
Speaker 7: you want to talk about morals, morals can't come from
Speaker 7: a human consensus, esh, my.
Speaker 3: Fucking Christ, and it can't come from your fucking God, James,
Speaker 3: That's what I've been trying to tell you.
Speaker 1: But morals do come from human consensus, like humanity. Humanity
Speaker 1: did not come to the decision to abolish slavery because
Speaker 1: your God commanded it.
Speaker 2: There's absolutely nothing in this book.
Speaker 1: Where your God says, I changed my mind, I was
Speaker 1: wrong to regulate slavery.
Speaker 2: Don't do it anymore like humanity.
Speaker 1: Christians had to reinterpret text in order to convince Christians,
Speaker 1: Southern Christians that your Jesus was against slavery, because there
Speaker 1: is no outright condemnation of the practice. In fact, the
Speaker 1: last he leaves it off with instructing Paul to instruct
Speaker 1: Christians who are enslaved to obey their earthly masters, including
Speaker 1: their harsh ones, and to do it with a little
Speaker 1: bit back into it.
Speaker 2: He says, don't do it for humans, do it because
Speaker 2: it is the will of God.
Speaker 1: Like there's nothing in this book where your God commands
Speaker 1: for people to stop on the slaves. Humans humans came
Speaker 1: to that moral standard together. And now you want to
Speaker 1: revise history and say your God has always been against lavery,
Speaker 1: when that is not the case.
Speaker 7: I say God has a better plan for us than
Speaker 7: what you try to stick him out to be And
Speaker 7: I say, the context says everything. If you look at
Speaker 7: a lot of the places where he sent them in
Speaker 7: to go after the Amorites.
Speaker 8: He told.
Speaker 6: Israel, he says, your, your generations are going to suffer under.
Speaker 7: Fateroh for four hundred years, and I'm going to bring
Speaker 7: him out with a mighty hand. But he says that
Speaker 7: the sin of the Amorits is not yet full. He
Speaker 7: gave him six hundred years and they were sacrificing their
Speaker 7: children to amelek into molac and burners and killing them all.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I'm sorry there, James. Did you know that
Speaker 3: the Israelites originally had mandates to sacrifice their firstborn children.
Speaker 7: Well, I know that Abraham whenever he took his son
Speaker 7: up there to be the sacrifice, that God held his
Speaker 7: hand and stopped him.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 3: So so originally, Yahweh required you to redeem the firstborn.
Speaker 3: And the way that you redeemed the firstborn was you
Speaker 3: either sacrifice the lamb, kind of like what you know
Speaker 3: Abraham did, or if you couldn't sacrifice, if you didn't
Speaker 3: redeem the firstborn, either human or animal, you ended up
Speaker 3: having to break its neck right and so the example
Speaker 3: was given the donkey, but very obviously that it's xtaposed
Speaker 3: like the human sacrifice. There is just suppose against the
Speaker 3: donkey's neck being broken as a way of saying, oh,
Speaker 3: but we don't we need to redeem, we don't need
Speaker 3: to not redeem the firstborn of every child. You've got
Speaker 3: in what was at Exodus thirteen thirteen, that's where it
Speaker 3: specifically lays it out, and then you've got Ezekiel twenty
Speaker 3: twenty nine. I believe it is where God admits to
Speaker 3: requiring the Israelites to do detestable things like sacrificing their
Speaker 3: firstborn children. So it is there. Now. It is true
Speaker 3: that later priestly sources came in and re contextualize all
Speaker 3: of that to be like a dedication to priestly service,
Speaker 3: but that comes much later in the Israelites history. Originally
Speaker 3: it was actually sacrificing the firstborn children.
Speaker 7: I've never seen anything where they said they had to
Speaker 7: sacrifice the firstborn children. Now, the redemption through the animals,
Speaker 7: the sacrificial system. If you're looking Isaiah chapter forty six,
Speaker 7: verse sen, and he says, propriaming the end from the beginning,
Speaker 7: and from ancient times, those things which are not yet
Speaker 7: as though they already were. My words will be established
Speaker 7: and I'll do as I please. God came in and said,
Speaker 7: I'm going to show you how I'm going to do it.
Speaker 7: I'm going to tell you how I'm going to do it,
Speaker 7: and then show.
Speaker 6: You and do it, and that way you know it's me.
Speaker 8: And the one thing differing.
Speaker 7: About the Christian religion than from any other religious book
Speaker 7: is the prophecy.
Speaker 1: No wait, before you move on to prophecies, like you
Speaker 1: brought up the fact that your God sent his chosen
Speaker 1: into Egypt to be enslaved for four hundred years while
Speaker 1: he sat back and watched the Canaanites supposedly do all
Speaker 1: of this evil. And he waited until they got so
Speaker 1: evil before he released his Israelites from slavery, where he
Speaker 1: allowed them to go through suffering so that they could
Speaker 1: go into Canaan and kill these evil Canaanites. You're all
Speaker 1: powerful God who has the power to wake people up
Speaker 1: in the morning, sat back and watched the Canaanites just
Speaker 1: do evil. He didn't introduce himself up to them at all,
Speaker 1: because they didn't know your God.
Speaker 2: He didn't say. He did not go and say Hey, let.
Speaker 1: Me give you these laws that I've not yet given Moses,
Speaker 1: because I'm going to hold you accountable for some shit
Speaker 1: that I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna give to my people.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hold you accountable for the shit that you
Speaker 1: don't know yet. And that's what you're like, You're that's
Speaker 1: what you're calling moral. You're literally saying, your God sat
Speaker 1: back and watch these people do evil shit without knowing
Speaker 1: your god, and he did nothing about it until he
Speaker 1: raised up some mercenaries to go in and commit murder.
Speaker 6: Shit.
Speaker 7: Back and listen a minute, everybody was in the garden.
Speaker 2: No, we're not going to the garden. Were out the garden.
Speaker 2: There's no need to go. There's no need to go
Speaker 2: to the garden.
Speaker 1: What we're talking about right now is the fact that
Speaker 1: your God sat back for hold on, know what we're
Speaker 1: talking about is the fact that your God sat back
Speaker 1: for four hundred.
Speaker 2: Years and was like, Nope, their motherfuckers ain't evil enough yet.
Speaker 1: And now one time did he intervene and introduce himself
Speaker 1: to the Canaanites. He just sat back and waited until
Speaker 1: his mercenaries were ripe.
Speaker 7: I think you're wrong.
Speaker 1: That's what that's literally, that's literally, that's literally, wait, that's
Speaker 1: literally what you said. You you wrought up the fact
Speaker 1: that he said that the sin of the Canaanites have.
Speaker 2: Not gotten to.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: So he step back and he watched them continue to
Speaker 1: do evil sacrifice to Malik. Although the book doesn't say
Speaker 1: that they did that. The Israelites are the one who
Speaker 1: built the effect to Maleek. But that's besides the point.
Speaker 1: Right now, Your God sat back and watched them just
Speaker 1: do evil, and he's like, look that the marma tange
Speaker 1: hot enough. Yet while his mercenaries were cooking, While his
Speaker 1: mercenaries were cooking in.
Speaker 2: Egypt, they didn't know.
Speaker 8: I think they did.
Speaker 2: I don't care what you think. There ain't nothing in
Speaker 2: this book that says that they did.
Speaker 6: There is absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2: There is nothing.
Speaker 5: I think.
Speaker 1: There is nothing in this book that that says that
Speaker 1: the Canaanites. New York God or his laws and statutes.
Speaker 7: Bullshit, and show it to me.
Speaker 6: Show it to me, all right, all right, Adam.
Speaker 1: In the garden I'm talking about Adam, I'm talking about
Speaker 1: the Canaanites.
Speaker 2: Show me. I don't like ship, I don't feel like going.
Speaker 5: To the garden.
Speaker 6: I don't want to go to the garden.
Speaker 1: I don't want to go to the garden. Show me
Speaker 1: where talk to me about the Canaanites. Show me where
Speaker 1: it is the Canaanites New York. God before the injuries,
Speaker 1: was sitting in there. Show me what you talking while
Speaker 1: I'm talking. Show me I want to talk about the Canaanites.
Speaker 1: Show me where it says the Canaanites knew your God
Speaker 1: before your God sent the Israelites in there to murder them.
Speaker 7: All right, if you listen, I'll tell you back in
Speaker 7: the garden, Adam walked with God.
Speaker 2: Oh my fucking God.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, because the Canaanis don't have anything to
Speaker 1: do with the garden.
Speaker 6: I'm trying to I'm trying to shorten this.
Speaker 2: Go to the Canaanites.
Speaker 7: I'm trying to shorten this as quick as.
Speaker 1: Adam don't have anything to do with the Canaanites.
Speaker 7: I guess this conversation is done. If you're not going
Speaker 7: to listen that, I guess it's done.
Speaker 9: We got other people.
Speaker 7: I don't know something.
Speaker 1: I don't know who you think you're talking to. There
Speaker 1: is no need for us to be in the garden.
Speaker 1: I asked you about the Canaanites and I'm trying to tell.
Speaker 8: You that they knew that there was a God. I
Speaker 8: didn't say.
Speaker 1: I did not ask you if they knew that there
Speaker 1: was a God. I asked you if they knew your God.
Speaker 1: And I want you to take me to the verse
Speaker 1: that says that. And you're trying to gaslight me and
Speaker 1: bullshit me.
Speaker 2: With this garden store. There's no need. There is no
Speaker 2: need for you to be going to the garden. The
Speaker 2: question that I asked you has nothing to do with
Speaker 2: Adam and Eve. Take me to the.
Speaker 1: Scripture that says the Canaanizes knew. Take me to the
Speaker 1: scripture that says the Canaanisee knew Yahweh, Jack, whatever you
Speaker 1: call them.
Speaker 8: Do I think that Noah and his sons did not
Speaker 8: know about God.
Speaker 2: I didn't ask about Noah and his son.
Speaker 1: I didn't ask about no I did not ask you
Speaker 1: about Noah his sons.
Speaker 5: You not ask you that.
Speaker 2: If I did not ask you about Noah and his sons.
Speaker 7: You asked about the Canaan I you were descendants of Noah.
Speaker 2: I want to I want to see.
Speaker 9: I want to see.
Speaker 2: I want to see the scripture.
Speaker 1: I want to see the scripture that says the Canaanise
Speaker 1: knew your God. The Israelites didn't even know your God
Speaker 1: with Moses. The Israelites didn't even know your God or
Speaker 1: what to call him when Moses.
Speaker 2: Came and rescued them.
Speaker 1: So how are you going to say that the Canaanise
Speaker 1: knew them before the Israelites did.
Speaker 7: They had to have known that they ain't.
Speaker 2: No, had to have known begin they ain't.
Speaker 1: No, had to have known your God set back, Your
Speaker 1: God set back and watched all these were happy where God.
Speaker 9: Sat that.
Speaker 1: Then go hang up, man, bye bye.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't understand the pivot, Like he just
Speaker 3: constantly pivoted in one direction or another. He wouldn't actually
Speaker 3: answer any of the questions. It's crazy.
Speaker 2: I think they did know God. They knew with God.
Speaker 1: That's not what I asked you. I want to go
Speaker 1: to the garden. We'll take a trip out of this
Speaker 1: phone call. But right now we ain't, Kennan, that's what
Speaker 1: I asked you about.
Speaker 2: Like that's ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Oh man, all right, I'm good for either one. That's
Speaker 3: uh that's left there in the queue. Uh oh yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, actually I got to do right, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I was gonna say we should probably do the announcements,
Speaker 3: so yeah.
Speaker 1: First off, we are excited to announce the launch of
Speaker 1: our twenty twenty six Back Cruise August fifteenth at seven pm.
Speaker 1: Tickets are on sale now and they're going fast, and
Speaker 1: there's going to be exciting events all weekend, including a
Speaker 1: special guest lecturer on Friday, a community outing and activity
Speaker 1: during the day on Saturday, followed by our annual members
Speaker 1: town hall, and your favorite ACA shows filmed live from
Speaker 1: the Free Throw Free Thought Library on Sunday featured guests
Speaker 1: genetically Modified Skeptic in the end tabat Tickets available at
Speaker 1: ACA dot show for slash Back Cruise, and stick around
Speaker 1: until the end of the show for a special announcement
Speaker 1: about Back Cruise. We want to send a big thank
Speaker 1: you out to the crew who put the show together
Speaker 1: every week. Video operators, audio operators, note takers, call screeners.
Speaker 2: And chat moderators.
Speaker 1: Would you like to be one of those attractive crew members,
Speaker 1: be a guest on one of our shows, or eventually
Speaker 1: become a host.
Speaker 2: We're always looking for people.
Speaker 1: Interested in becoming part of our productions teams, so email
Speaker 1: Volunteer at Atheistcommunity dot org to get involved. All right,
Speaker 1: we're going to take another call. All right, let's take George.
Speaker 1: You know, Georgia, Hi, how are you?
Speaker 3: I'm doing?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 1: What you want to make an argument that God is
Speaker 1: a DJ. Yes, it's DJ short for devil, joke or something.
Speaker 2: Demon.
Speaker 10: No, no word playing, no, nothing like this. I think
Speaker 10: that God is nothing without us?
Speaker 3: Okay, I mean in what in what capacity are you?
Speaker 3: Are you saying that he's nothing without us? That we
Speaker 3: provide the experience. He can't have an experience without I don't.
Speaker 1: I agree with you one hundred percent. I don't think
Speaker 1: that there really is, you know, any type of disagreement there.
Speaker 2: I agree that.
Speaker 1: The God can't do anything without a human being. I
Speaker 1: think that God is a concept that lives in the
Speaker 1: minds of humans. They are his mouth, his mind, his brain,
Speaker 1: Like he.
Speaker 2: Doesn't have any of that with God in human So
Speaker 2: I mean I agree.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not disagreement about it.
Speaker 10: So my beliefs are hippidep new age. So I'm aware
Speaker 10: that I can't provide a very stable argument.
Speaker 3: Well, so, George, are you saying that God exists but
Speaker 3: he somehow only exists because we believe in him?
Speaker 2: Like? Is that your argument?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 10: I think we're eternal beings and that is the way
Speaker 10: things are. It's like we deal with the physical reality
Speaker 10: and also when we're in spirit, we have.
Speaker 3: To deal with eternity. Okay, what things are for me?
Speaker 3: What's the evidence that were eternal beings?
Speaker 10: Well, a strong point is that we practically live in
Speaker 10: a quantum world, that everything is possible.
Speaker 3: Everything is possible. That's okay. I don't know. I don't honestly, George,
Speaker 3: I don't know what to do with that, but just
Speaker 3: gonna be straight.
Speaker 10: Well, how about how about we look at the pyramids
Speaker 10: and the relics that we have all around the world,
Speaker 10: in the Mexico, in the.
Speaker 3: Egypt, in in South America. Okay, I don't know how
Speaker 3: that's going to get us to human beings are eternal beings.
Speaker 3: But also there's only so many ways you can stack
Speaker 3: stack stuff and it and it be, you know, secure
Speaker 3: in its foundation. Uh So. I mean the fact that
Speaker 3: multiple different civilizations figured out how to build pyramids is
Speaker 3: not indicative of any kind of shared consciousness or any
Speaker 3: any kind of like external beings that gave us that information.
Speaker 3: I mean, essentially, it's like, hey, how do I stack
Speaker 3: these ship bricks this high? Oh, maybe I should do
Speaker 3: it this way, maybe I should do it that way,
Speaker 3: And they both figured out different ways to do it.
Speaker 3: In fact, the pyramids, I've actually been to the pyramids
Speaker 3: over there in Central America. They're they're fantastic, they're amazing,
Speaker 3: but they're also very different than the pyramids that are
Speaker 3: over there in Giza. Now I haven't been to the
Speaker 3: pyramids in Giza, but I mean that you could obviously
Speaker 3: tell that they're very different in their structure. So I mean, yeah,
Speaker 3: they're they're pyramids, but I mean they're still different. I
Speaker 3: don't know, were you trying to use the pyramids in
Speaker 3: order to prove that?
Speaker 10: Like, what were you trying to use them to prove?
Speaker 10: Maybe I jumped in on this a little bit too quick.
Speaker 10: Well let's take a look at much of Pichu. It's
Speaker 10: on top of a mountain and the stones are all
Speaker 10: sizes curved, and it's like, what's going on. It's like
Speaker 10: on top of a mountain, and who the hell in
Speaker 10: cavement time is going to do that?
Speaker 3: Cavemen? Yeah, like in ancient time, cavement time. I feel
Speaker 3: like you're mixing up time periods here. Also, cavemen is
Speaker 3: not a scientific designation of a period of human development
Speaker 3: that I mean that it would be better if you
Speaker 3: use something that was more indicative of an actual period.
Speaker 3: Are you talking about a time frame in which we
Speaker 3: were still hunter gatherers and uh we were mixing with Neanderthals,
Speaker 3: because that happened way before we started building settlements. We
Speaker 3: were still in nomadic you know, groups that were hunter gatherers,
Speaker 3: and so we would move with the the populations of
Speaker 3: animals as well as seasons. Uh, we didn't have like
Speaker 3: fixed locations, So there's that. And then if you're talking
Speaker 3: about the time at which we started building things in
Speaker 3: Central America, that would have been a more agrarian kind
Speaker 3: of situation because they were actually laying down settlements as
Speaker 3: opposed to being nomadic tribes. So it kind of seems
Speaker 3: like you're mixing up time periods here. Could you be
Speaker 3: a bit more specific.
Speaker 10: I don't know the consensus on what time period Macho
Speaker 10: Picchu was built, but for me, it's like it's on
Speaker 10: top of a mountain.
Speaker 3: Something is going on. Yeah, people climb the mountain with
Speaker 3: with stones on their backs and they built shit. Also,
Speaker 3: Machu Pichu was built in the fifteenth century. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 3: so not not cavemen times. This is google abull shit there, Georgie.
Speaker 3: But it's on top of a mountain. Man, It's like
Speaker 3: something is going on. Who is going to do you need?
Speaker 3: Do you need something magical in order to carry your
Speaker 3: rock up the side of a mountain?
Speaker 10: Why don't we have h the information on the building?
Speaker 3: Who says that we don't have that information? I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure what Why the fuck would you say it?
Speaker 2: Like, I'm gonna is he trying to say? Is he?
Speaker 1: I thought his original stance was the God within nothing
Speaker 1: without is now it sounds like he's saying that the God.
Speaker 2: Helped him build this? Like what is he saying? I
Speaker 2: typically found out? I didn't. I didn't catch that.
Speaker 3: That's fine. Uh no, yeah, I think that he's trying
Speaker 3: to make I don't know. Typically people bring up Machu
Speaker 3: Picchu in the Pyramids when they're wanting to go ancient
Speaker 3: aliens type ship? Are you doing ancient alien ship? It's
Speaker 3: being the god or like see, I'd called it, fucking
Speaker 3: called it, I knew it. I believe in aliens. Of course,
Speaker 3: it's part of the deal.
Speaker 2: Okay, are aliens got to you?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 3: Not at all weird equals. But see Machu Picchu was
Speaker 3: built using a masterclass of Inca engineering called ashlar masonry,
Speaker 3: where stones were cut to fit together perfectly without any mortar.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 3: There's underground terraces, there's deep foundations, there's a drainage system.
Speaker 3: Uh llama power.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The heavy stones were hauled up as deep mountain ridges
Speaker 3: using ropes, ramps and pure human and animal labor. We know,
Speaker 3: we know how this was built there, Georgie, Like, I
Speaker 3: don't what what's the point? Can you can?
Speaker 8: You can?
Speaker 3: Because we're we have better ways of carrying stones up mountains,
Speaker 3: and we also don't have to build on mountains like that. Like,
Speaker 3: I don't know what the fuck you're pointing out here? Like, so,
Speaker 3: so how does this connect? Can you connect this back
Speaker 3: to God for us? Because I'm lost down?
Speaker 10: So there are in responsibilities in our world and in
Speaker 10: spirit and incarnating in worlds like this is just went
Speaker 10: one way to deal with eternity, that's all.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. There was a whole bunch of of word
Speaker 3: solid to me. Could you could you maybe break it
Speaker 3: down to me? Like I'm five years old?
Speaker 10: Well, God is nothing special, but without us there would
Speaker 10: be no adventure, no worlds like ours.
Speaker 1: But I think I think we we've agreed with you
Speaker 1: on that, but it's kind of sounds like you're adding
Speaker 1: aliens in this MH.
Speaker 3: They have their own adventures.
Speaker 2: Aliens.
Speaker 10: Well there it is extraterrestrials that are human just sleep
Speaker 10: on another planet and aliens are very alien to us.
Speaker 2: Aliens A right, I think this is more truth truth wanted.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Georgie, you miss truth wanted by just a
Speaker 3: little bit. They start at I believe about two forty
Speaker 3: five pm Central time. If I'm not if I'm not
Speaker 3: mistaken there, but I can't hold on, I can't see Kelly, Kelly,
Speaker 3: give me a thumbs up? Did I get that? That
Speaker 3: time frame right? Two forty five? Yeah, about two forty
Speaker 3: five Central time on Sundays is truth wanted. And trust me,
Speaker 3: they would love to interact with you on on some
Speaker 3: alien stuff.
Speaker 10: Okay, all right, let me just say, quh, what it
Speaker 10: takes for you to believe that God is real? But
Speaker 10: he's nothing special, that we're part of him and we
Speaker 10: also have infinite awareness, we're we're in spirits.
Speaker 1: Okay, I think I already said that I think that
Speaker 1: God exists in your minds.
Speaker 2: I knew the God is real because you believe the
Speaker 2: God is real.
Speaker 1: So you do and say and act because you believe
Speaker 1: that that's what the God wants you to do.
Speaker 3: So would you say, would you? Would you?
Speaker 10: Would you agree that everything is connected even on a
Speaker 10: physical level like physical laws?
Speaker 3: Everything is connected?
Speaker 2: Like what do you everything?
Speaker 9: Like?
Speaker 3: What? On a physical level? Like what?
Speaker 10: Like the whole universe for example? One example with physical laws,
Speaker 10: with physical laws like gravity.
Speaker 3: I don't I mean not in the not in the
Speaker 3: way that you're meaning it.
Speaker 2: I don't know how you would know that. Why are
Speaker 2: you asking me? Would I agree that? How would I
Speaker 2: be able to say?
Speaker 5: Yep?
Speaker 2: I tested that I know that.
Speaker 10: Like I asked, what would it take for you to say, Okay,
Speaker 10: God exists, but he's nothing spaid.
Speaker 2: I already told you I think your God exists in
Speaker 2: your minds?
Speaker 3: All right? All right? Yeah, like I agree, we're one
Speaker 3: with God.
Speaker 1: I didn't say that. That's not the same thing. Your
Speaker 1: God exists in your mind. You hold a belief in
Speaker 1: a God, so the God is real to you, so
Speaker 1: you act on behalf of that belief, and that makes
Speaker 1: the God real, right because you exist?
Speaker 10: I would say, it's not far fetched to think that
Speaker 10: there is an eternal spirit that we are part of.
Speaker 3: Those are just claims, Georgie, those are just claims. You
Speaker 3: have to you have to be able to prove them.
Speaker 2: I didn't say that either.
Speaker 1: I said that God was an idea that you hold
Speaker 1: in your mind, that you hold in your your your thoughts,
Speaker 1: and your heart, and you act on behalf from that idea,
Speaker 1: like the inspiration of the God. It's kind of like
Speaker 1: when they say that all scripture is inspired by God.
Speaker 1: Scripture is inspired by men.
Speaker 2: Who believed in a God.
Speaker 1: They wrote from their belief, like that belief was the
Speaker 1: inspiration for why they wrote what they wrote, not that.
Speaker 2: A God told them what to say.
Speaker 1: And so I think all of you are who hold
Speaker 1: a belief in a God, your worldview is inspired by
Speaker 1: that belief, and that makes the God real to you.
Speaker 10: I think my point of view is that if infinity
Speaker 10: and eternity were something non existent, we couldn't even talk
Speaker 10: about this stuff. You have ideas wrap around our minds
Speaker 10: around these kind of ideas, because if they didn't exist,
Speaker 10: would do something different. We would be maybe more constraint
Speaker 10: or something.
Speaker 1: But what what did what did you have to do
Speaker 1: with infinity and eternity, Like have you ever looked to
Speaker 1: see like what your experience would be if you will
Speaker 1: within the time of eternity.
Speaker 10: Well, spirit is a timeless state of being, so there
Speaker 10: is no time that.
Speaker 3: Just so I was thinking of certain Georgie that that's
Speaker 3: incoherent okay, okay, like God is nothing special.
Speaker 10: Our natural state is with God in spirit, being based
Speaker 10: out and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Well, I think you so cul truth wanted next Sunday
Speaker 1: and have this conversation.
Speaker 2: We do have one more call to go before the
Speaker 2: end of the show. I thank you so much for
Speaker 2: calling in though.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, thank you, ken, I welcome one, have a
Speaker 1: have a great night, all right, okay.
Speaker 3: Uh So we do have our last caller, uh and
Speaker 3: then we're going to get to any super chats that
Speaker 3: anybody has, so send in those super chats if you
Speaker 3: want us to address those.
Speaker 2: Hello, Hi, ag Hi, how are you?
Speaker 6: Is it a.
Speaker 2: One one?
Speaker 1: So you want to calling about the possibility of God
Speaker 1: existing and not caring about human reality?
Speaker 2: Okay, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 9: And to discuss about your you buys.
Speaker 8: Certainty on materialism you know on that word.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry I said that again, you want to start,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, send that again.
Speaker 8: Which topic would you like me to talk?
Speaker 2: Well, you're it's your god evil.
Speaker 1: Well, first off, you said you want to talk about
Speaker 1: the possibility of God existing. I'm willing to grant you
Speaker 1: that the God exists for the purposes of getting to
Speaker 1: the actual topic. I mean, I don't know if godless
Speaker 1: wants to have the conversation with you about God existing
Speaker 1: or not, but I quite frankly would just grant for
Speaker 1: the purposes of an internal critique that your God exists
Speaker 1: for this conversation.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm you know, I'm really.
Speaker 4: An agnostic in respect of like any more specific infinitial
Speaker 4: of God. But what I do have is that I
Speaker 4: don't think I am like a material list or like
Speaker 4: a purely naturalist anymore.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're right now, you don't have a belief
Speaker 1: in a god like you don't necessarily subscribe to a.
Speaker 2: Guide.
Speaker 8: Could you repeat?
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm trying to make sure I understand what
Speaker 2: you said.
Speaker 1: You're agnostic and you don't necessarily subscribe to any specific
Speaker 1: deity like are you an agnostic theist?
Speaker 4: And maybe more more or less more more like a
Speaker 4: Tenantes you know, like man God. You know, the material
Speaker 4: war uh is basically inside God. But God is like
Speaker 4: something greater.
Speaker 8: Than the material work. And the reason I say the same.
Speaker 4: About morality because I do agree with you that in
Speaker 4: the a strict traditional like classical peace definition, there is
Speaker 4: the youth throw dilemma that basically, you know, you cannot
Speaker 4: have the three try our characteristics at the same time.
Speaker 4: And I sometimes like just tempted two. You know, the
Speaker 4: possibility that either it is the moral aspect you know
Speaker 4: of the benevolence that a God, to be consistent.
Speaker 8: Would not have it, or it could also be lack of.
Speaker 9: Of me of minipotence in a traditional sense, you know.
Speaker 4: But that but that wouldn't mean that there wouldn't be
Speaker 4: a God that is like a non materialistic basis for reality.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm sorry, I'm having a little difficulty understanding you,
Speaker 1: so I don't call You're saying that you believe that
Speaker 1: God and.
Speaker 2: God is omni benevolent.
Speaker 4: No, that that God may not be on the benevolence
Speaker 4: or may not be of nipotent in the traditional sense.
Speaker 2: But what God like are you said? The universe is God,
Speaker 2: Nature is God like? What is God? Here though.
Speaker 4: No, I'm not saying that the nature is God, but
Speaker 4: that I am inclined to think that there must be
Speaker 4: a God in the sense of a non materialistic basis
Speaker 4: for reality.
Speaker 1: No realistic basic basis for reality.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, because well I so hold on, you.
Speaker 8: Know, materials with the problem.
Speaker 1: On.
Speaker 3: So, Uh, I get that you want to think that
Speaker 3: there's some kind of magical basis for reality, but that's
Speaker 3: kind of a bit of a logical leap there going
Speaker 3: from reality exists and it requires some kind of magical
Speaker 3: aspect to it in order for it to exist. So
Speaker 3: can you help build that bridge between reality and the
Speaker 3: god that like the God that you think exists, that
Speaker 3: that reality is dependent upon.
Speaker 8: And yeah.
Speaker 4: The reason why I say that, uh is mine, you know,
Speaker 4: And it's touching the problem for materialism. How do you
Speaker 4: reconcile the problem of consciousness? On you your direct access
Speaker 4: to first of can suggestive experience and so well.
Speaker 3: Hold on before you go on, but you mentioned one thing,
Speaker 3: and that's the problem of consciousness. And I for for
Speaker 3: me personally, I am an emergentist. So like consciousness is
Speaker 3: an emergent property of a complex central nervous system.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: And so that what that means is that, you know,
Speaker 3: not only humans can have a consciousness. Obviously, other animals,
Speaker 3: other life forms can have can be conscious There's also
Speaker 3: a difference in levels of consciousness, Like there's very basic
Speaker 3: consciousness and then their sentients and all this other stuff.
Speaker 3: So like, but I think that it all depends on
Speaker 3: how complex thees central nervous system is, and how the
Speaker 3: central nervous system interacts with the environment around it and
Speaker 3: reacts to stimulus. So like, all of that is an
Speaker 3: emergent property, and so our consciousness, our experiences, all those
Speaker 3: things can be interpreted through like the chemical processes and
Speaker 3: the structures of our brains and everything. So like, we
Speaker 3: don't need some magical aspect to consciousness in order to
Speaker 3: explain it.
Speaker 1: But still has he stated what that magical aspect.
Speaker 3: Is other than an ambiguous God figure. No, he hasn't
Speaker 3: really been able to describe it. He just keeps jumping
Speaker 3: from claim to claim.
Speaker 8: It would be consciousness, you know God, So consciousness is
Speaker 8: God like consciousness.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. W are you saying? Are you
Speaker 2: saying consciousness would be God?
Speaker 8: Not all consciousness, you know, in.
Speaker 4: Trivial sense, but all consciousness would be derived from the
Speaker 4: consciousness of God.
Speaker 2: What is the God though, it would be the.
Speaker 8: You know, the vision that.
Speaker 4: The universe and what is potentially outside the universe are.
Speaker 1: So when I said, you're saying the universe is God?
Speaker 1: You said no, But you are saying that, I'm saying
Speaker 1: that the universe would be a part.
Speaker 8: A part of God.
Speaker 2: Yes, the universe is a part of God. Yes, But
Speaker 2: what is the God? Like, what's beyond the what else?
Speaker 2: What other part of him?
Speaker 1: It would be nature, You're saying everything, the universe, nature, humans,
Speaker 1: everything is God?
Speaker 2: Is what you are saying.
Speaker 1: No, So what's the other part of God? I got
Speaker 1: the universe?
Speaker 2: And what else?
Speaker 8: Could you repeat that?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 1: What are the other parts of your God? The universe
Speaker 1: and what else? If not consciousness, the.
Speaker 2: Universe and what?
Speaker 1: Because the other the reason why I need to figure
Speaker 1: this out is because the other part of your reason
Speaker 1: for calling is to discuss whether or not your God
Speaker 1: could be evil and not care about morals. And we
Speaker 1: can't have that discussion until we know what you're calling God.
Speaker 8: All right, what I'm calling God would beat them.
Speaker 9: Them, the.
Speaker 6: Hm the.
Speaker 8: How do you describe it? It's uh, it would be them.
Speaker 4: The organicity of the universe, you know, and the and
Speaker 4: the of existence.
Speaker 8: I'm calling God them origin.
Speaker 4: Of you know, in in kind of our platonic sense,
Speaker 4: the origin of existence.
Speaker 8: Basically.
Speaker 3: Well, so this just sounds like presuppositional apologetics, like you're
Speaker 3: just pre supposing that there is a God that exists,
Speaker 3: and is it is the non contingent thing that everything
Speaker 3: else is contingent upon. Is that what you're doing or
Speaker 3: are you doing a contingency argument?
Speaker 9: I do think the contingency argument, you know, which I
Speaker 9: do think going.
Speaker 4: From the contingency argument to immediately like the Christian God
Speaker 4: would be a.
Speaker 8: High reach, you know, a high jump. But I'm not
Speaker 8: saying that.
Speaker 4: I'm saying exactly what the contingency argument would imply this
Speaker 4: kind of consation, you know, I'm not pre supposing, like
Speaker 4: the Christian God or the God of a specifical religion.
Speaker 7: I do.
Speaker 4: From the ones that kind of have the tendency that
Speaker 4: there is some truth in in like most religious But
Speaker 4: people often misunderstand what people like me.
Speaker 8: Say say when we say that.
Speaker 9: When I say that, I don't.
Speaker 4: Mean that every religion is consistent we need each other,
Speaker 4: but that I see and if you study like compared
Speaker 4: toive religion and mythology, you can see like patterns that
Speaker 4: that emerge that are are kind of commons to the
Speaker 4: different religions. For example, I think it's amazing and escapes
Speaker 4: from my.
Speaker 8: My my possibility of of.
Speaker 4: Having you know, kind of a natural explation that for example,
Speaker 4: something that the mysticism of the you know, medieval philosopher
Speaker 4: mystic master Egghort.
Speaker 9: Has a very similar.
Speaker 4: Metaphysics to the the metasy physics of Zen Buddhism productions.
Speaker 4: They are very similar metaphysics when you analyze those different
Speaker 4: systems that never chain in contact with each other.
Speaker 1: You know, no, it's very hard to follow. It's very
Speaker 1: hard to follow, and that like, why argue something that
Speaker 1: you cannot?
Speaker 8: What's my point is that.
Speaker 4: I don't in that in this very moment, I don't
Speaker 4: land more credibility to the materialist hypothesis than to a
Speaker 4: non materialistic or idealistic option.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 3: What, what seems to what seems to give you the
Speaker 3: indication that something more than the material world exists.
Speaker 4: Well, for example, and I'm sure, uh, I'm not trying
Speaker 4: to do like a dodger with this or something, but
Speaker 4: you said that you are an emergentist.
Speaker 8: You know, I think emergentism is not like a strict materialism.
Speaker 4: Because when you say, uh that something categorically different is
Speaker 4: different emerges uh.
Speaker 8: From from matter, but it is not matter in itself.
Speaker 4: That is bringing another metaphysical realald to the the conversation
Speaker 4: that emergentism. Yeah, we surely matter would perceive that, but
Speaker 4: it still is another categorically different thing that matters, you know.
Speaker 4: I think emergentism most of the times is a you know.
Speaker 7: No, no, no.
Speaker 3: I mean, so emergent properties are not the same thing
Speaker 3: as dualism. Emergent properties are when you know that there's
Speaker 3: an interaction between different individual things and then this other
Speaker 3: property then manifests. So I mean it's based in a
Speaker 3: materialistic sort of framework. Just because the emergent properties aren't
Speaker 3: like like one to one directly represented in the material
Speaker 3: world like consciousness or you know, anything like that. Just
Speaker 3: because there's not like a one to one thing and
Speaker 3: it's more of a complex situation, does it mean that
Speaker 3: it's like dualism? Like, I don't know what you're talking
Speaker 3: about here.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I kind of feel like we're really not We're not
Speaker 3: getting too many, Like really anywhere with you, Juan, You've
Speaker 3: got a very confusing sort of theology here as well
Speaker 3: as not really it seems like you really don't know
Speaker 3: how to describe it. What I'm getting out of it
Speaker 3: is you seem to be like a pre suppositionalist, you
Speaker 3: presupposing that this God is necessary for reality given some
Speaker 3: various reasons that you think that emergent properties or properties
Speaker 3: of this reality that aren't directly represented by materialism, like thoughts, consciousness,
Speaker 3: that kind of thing, somehow that proves that there's a
Speaker 3: magical aspect to this reality. And I just don't see that.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 8: I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't see that as being you know, all that
Speaker 3: indicative of it. It kind of reminds me of like
Speaker 3: if you were to mix two different colors together and
Speaker 3: you get a different color, Like that different color is
Speaker 3: still represented by reality, right, It's still part of the
Speaker 3: natural world, even if that color is made by mixing
Speaker 3: two different colors. I don't know. I'm thoroughly confused, Twan.
Speaker 3: And but morely, we we are kind of at time
Speaker 3: for our show.
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, just like one last thing and in particularifying, uh,
Speaker 4: it's not just one.
Speaker 8: Reason, Like I have talked about the.
Speaker 4: You know, I do take seriously the contingency argument, but
Speaker 4: I do not do the stupid thing of you know,
Speaker 4: responsing just an specific.
Speaker 9: Religion because of that. But it's not only that it is.
Speaker 4: The arguments against yeah, you know, not arguments, but reasons
Speaker 4: why I specifically would think that materialism.
Speaker 8: Cannot be true because.
Speaker 9: And I see and I do think emergency is not
Speaker 9: you know, it's must.
Speaker 8: Be the traditional dualism. But I do think it is
Speaker 8: a form of Uh.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's that's fine if you want to think that,
Speaker 3: but the the dualism thing is not the same thing
Speaker 3: as emergentism. How about this, Maybe we can, maybe we
Speaker 3: can come to an agreement that you can go back
Speaker 3: and workshop this idea, right, get it written down, either
Speaker 3: in a syllogistic form or in any other kind of
Speaker 3: way where you've got a clear, you know, description of
Speaker 3: what you're trying to put down here, and and maybe
Speaker 3: you can come back and we can run through that
Speaker 3: for any kind of logical consistency. But do you think
Speaker 3: that that might be something that you can do, is
Speaker 3: to to workshop this idea into some kind of like
Speaker 3: description of what you're trying to say, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: I think this would be better for truth wanted as
Speaker 1: well or or talking. I think it's not it's not
Speaker 1: what we're discussing.
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, that's a good idea.
Speaker 2: Well I was trying to I was, I was. I
Speaker 2: was trying to get you to the topic.
Speaker 1: Like you said that you wanted to talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: how the God could be evil and not care about
Speaker 1: human morality, right, and that part seemed pretty interesting to me.
Speaker 1: But I don't see how we can discuss that with
Speaker 1: you when you're having difficulty even describing what your idea
Speaker 1: of the God is. And so unfortunately, I'm not interested in,
Speaker 1: you know, the philosophical conversation about you know, men going
Speaker 1: back and forth about explaining something that they no one
Speaker 1: can definitively prove, you know, Like so I'm willing to
Speaker 1: give you that the God exists, but you can't explain
Speaker 1: what it is, like, you can't explain what it is,
Speaker 1: And like, I don't want to start the conversation back
Speaker 1: because we do have to get to reading the super
Speaker 1: chances and stuff and into our announcement. But like Godless said,
Speaker 1: if you you know workshop it a little bit come back.
Speaker 2: And be able to.
Speaker 1: You know, very clearly, you concise say what it is
Speaker 1: that you believe a God is to you, and then
Speaker 1: maybe call into Truth Wanted or Talk Heathen and and
Speaker 1: and talk that through with the host there.
Speaker 8: Okay.
Speaker 4: I also, yeah, that's a good idea, but you mentioned
Speaker 4: something that reminded me that I have problems with the
Speaker 4: uh paparian definition of like what you could consider true
Speaker 4: through empracism, you know, because something.
Speaker 1: You gotta you gotta call back, you gotta call.
Speaker 2: During Truth Wanted our Talky then okay, we have to
Speaker 2: we have to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're we're we're not going to be able to
Speaker 3: interact with you on any kind of good level with
Speaker 3: you right now. So let's let's save that for Truth
Speaker 3: Wanted or or Talk Key then Talk Key then I
Speaker 3: believe starts around one pm Central on Sundays, and then
Speaker 3: Truth Wanted is at two forty five pm Central on Sundays.
Speaker 3: So just uh earmark those for next week, okay, Juan,
Speaker 3: and just spend this next week workshopping this idea.
Speaker 4: All right, sure, sure, that's a good home word. Okay,
Speaker 4: I will have my idea of written now. Then next
Speaker 4: week okay, all right, have.
Speaker 2: A good week. Thank you so much for calling.
Speaker 9: All right, all right, yeah, I have had to say
Speaker 9: I hope you have a good life.
Speaker 2: Okay, you too, Han, all right, all right, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: Do you want to do the no?
Speaker 5: No, no, no, no, you do it.
Speaker 9: You do it.
Speaker 3: You're the host.
Speaker 1: Sorry, okay, I was trying to figure out, so we
Speaker 1: want to think, I guess we'll go ahead and do
Speaker 1: the super chats and then bring in the back up.
Speaker 1: So do you want to bring the super chests on stage?
Speaker 1: And then I read one and then you re one yep.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So the first one is from AG for ninety nine.
Speaker 1: Thank you, AG says the nerves are in the building.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, AG.
Speaker 3: Yep. And then we get Infidel send it in the
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety nine saying you don't have to be homophobic
Speaker 3: if you are a Christian, but you can't be homophobic
Speaker 3: if you are a humanist. That's a pretty good idea
Speaker 3: right there. I mean, I agree, if you're a humanist,
Speaker 3: you're definitely not going to be homophobic.
Speaker 1: I agree, slow TD, I thank you so much for
Speaker 1: the dollar ninety nine superchat. Let me run by Grandstanding
Speaker 1: Bra ain't okay.
Speaker 3: I think that was talking about Andrew and yeah, he
Speaker 3: was definitely trying to grandstand blind Limey sent it in
Speaker 3: the ten said Tonight on atheist gear, John talks about
Speaker 3: effing Satan thinker cast pearls before swine, and Kelly gives
Speaker 3: in to the voices.
Speaker 1: Slow TENI for ninety nine, North Korea is an atheistic.
Speaker 1: They worship their leader just because it's not your God.
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean they are atheistic. Like, holy shit, this guy.
Speaker 3: Keih A lot of I noticed a lot of people
Speaker 3: confuse state atheism with just the atheist demographic in general
Speaker 3: and state. They don't realize that state atheism is where
Speaker 3: you replace the state or the supreme leader in this case,
Speaker 3: you know, as the religion, and you worship the state
Speaker 3: or the leader or whatnot as a as a deity.
Speaker 3: They don't seem to understand the differences there. Slow TDI
Speaker 3: send it in the four ninety nine, again saying North
Speaker 3: Korea worships their leader like a god just because it's
Speaker 3: not your god. Okay, so this is just twice holy
Speaker 3: This guy's grass I see is at the ending.
Speaker 1: Slow td I again, Oh, no, androids factory resetting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he totally did that slow TD I again saying,
Speaker 3: but don't look at the tenth number. That would be bad.
Speaker 2: The tenth number.
Speaker 3: I think it's I think it's the tenth I think
Speaker 3: that's what the James call the Exodus twenty seventeen, the
Speaker 3: tenth commandment.
Speaker 1: Oh, but what I must have missed. Don't look at
Speaker 1: the tenth number. Oh, the tenth, No, that would be bad.
Speaker 1: I read that as number. I mean, did you read
Speaker 1: that as number?
Speaker 3: I thought it was number two. I thought it might
Speaker 3: have been the tenth commandment because we're.
Speaker 2: At the tenth. No, that would be bad. I'm like
Speaker 2: tenth nomber.
Speaker 1: Over confused, Okay, and then unashamed of Pastain. There is
Speaker 1: no context that make slavery. Okay, Jim, your views are
Speaker 1: as gross as your God's Thursday for thank good.
Speaker 2: That's the hashtag. Yeah, I love it, Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Unashamed of Pastain.
Speaker 1: All right, y'all, thank y'all so much for being here today.
Speaker 2: Kelly, what did you think about this show?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Oh, I had a lot of thoughts about this show.
Speaker 11: I don't want to take up too much to give
Speaker 11: me up back stain awesome, awesome. I always try to
Speaker 11: crack the host up at least once.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I did it. I wrote some notes as
Speaker 3: I usually do.
Speaker 11: Andrew, if you're still listening and you really really don't
Speaker 11: know why killing is wrong, please do not move next
Speaker 11: door to me.
Speaker 3: Please. That's the one thing I'm asking of you.
Speaker 11: And then I want I didn't really have too much
Speaker 11: to say about but Georgie, boy, you know, how did
Speaker 11: the Incans do all that work. You may not know
Speaker 11: this because you haven't read all the Spanish writings from
Speaker 11: the time period that were written down and preserved, but
Speaker 11: we do know how the Incans built everything. And we
Speaker 11: also know that the Incan leader, the Incan king, as
Speaker 11: you will, forced all the peasants to pay two weeks
Speaker 11: of their taxes as labor every year. So every male
Speaker 11: person in the entire Incan empire had to work for
Speaker 11: the empire two weeks of every year. I guess that
Speaker 11: was their vacation, so vacation, and that's how they kept
Speaker 11: and that's how they kept up the highways, that's how
Speaker 11: they built those amazing buildings and temples that they built. So,
Speaker 11: just to give you a better insight to it, so
Speaker 11: and you were talking about how they built the stone,
Speaker 11: so they weren't all like in a row like brick
Speaker 11: star today. The reason they did that and we found
Speaker 11: out we've done science, man, we've done testing those hold
Speaker 11: up better on earthquakes. And the Incan Empire was built
Speaker 11: in a place where there are lots of earthquakes, so
Speaker 11: that's why they built it that way, making all those
Speaker 11: weird shapes and sticking them together.
Speaker 3: So just say, and this is all stuff you can
Speaker 3: just google and.
Speaker 11: Find out honestly if you really wanted to. Yeah, So
Speaker 11: that's all I got to say.
Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing that, thank you for sharing that
Speaker 2: with it.
Speaker 5: I just I taught it.
Speaker 11: I taught some people some stuff there and truth wanted,
Speaker 11: and I figured I might as well just keep teaching.
Speaker 1: Well, I thank you, thank you for the work you
Speaker 1: do with truth want to because those conversations are very interesting, indeed,
Speaker 1: and I think it's pretty cool when people can.
Speaker 2: Go down that rabbit hole of information well aliens and
Speaker 2: all of that.
Speaker 3: So I thank you.
Speaker 11: I mean, that's my bread and butter. But you are
Speaker 11: amazing at the Bible. I mean, I appreciate what you do,
Speaker 11: so don't sell yourself. Sure you are, You are totally.
Speaker 3: Amazing to me, so, thank you.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: I wish I had your knowledge.
Speaker 1: Well, look, we're envious of each other, all right, So
Speaker 1: we do have a special announcement about the Back Cruise. Godless,
Speaker 1: do you want to make your announcement first?
Speaker 9: Uh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I don't know how many of y'all out
Speaker 3: there know this, but Thinker is actually going to be
Speaker 3: at the Back Cruise this year as a special featured
Speaker 3: host at the Back Cruise, and we'll be hosting AXP
Speaker 3: that next day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the studio. I'm so excited. And then Godless
Speaker 2: Engineer will be there too.
Speaker 11: I've already met him. I'm looking forward to meeting you, though, Thinker.
Speaker 2: I'm looking for me. I'm not looking forward to meeting bats.
Speaker 3: Oh, no, you're gonna be. You won't meet it, but
Speaker 3: you will be amazed.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 11: Here, here's the look I see on everybody's faces the
Speaker 11: first time they see it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope that's all. That's No, I'm excited.
Speaker 1: I've never seen bats up close, So I'm excited to
Speaker 1: see the bats in to meet all of you and
Speaker 1: the crew, and to do an in studio show. And
Speaker 1: I'm I understand it's gonna be like two hundred people
Speaker 1: in attendance in studio where we're filming it, and so
Speaker 1: that's so exciting. So tickets are on sale. Look for
Speaker 1: the announcements in the coming weeks as to the other
Speaker 1: host that will be confirmed and also attending. Thank you
Speaker 1: all so much for being here today everyone, and we
Speaker 1: will see y'all next week here on Sundays at four
Speaker 1: thirty pm Central for the atheist experience.
Speaker 3: Bye bye bye love Yday.
Speaker 2: It's not yon stop missing the bulls.
Speaker 1: Everyone around you buy it, y'all.
Speaker 4: Welcome M.
Speaker 7: David.
Speaker 3: Y'all watch Talk EA Than Live Sundays at one pm
Speaker 3: Central and call into the show at five one two
Speaker 3: nine nine two four two, or connect to the show
Speaker 3: online at a C A dot Show slash call