Speaker 1: Welcome, dear listener, and thanks for joining us. I'm Yant
Speaker 1: and I'm Steven.
Speaker 2: And this is a podcast all about the weird and
Speaker 2: wonderful world of the Dark comedy anthology series Inside Number nine.
Speaker 1: On each episode, we'll be diving into another one of
Speaker 1: Steve Pemberton and Reese Sheresmith's twisted tales, putting it under
Speaker 1: a lens, and examining it within an inch of its life.
Speaker 2: So make yourself comfortable, grab a cup of tea, and
Speaker 2: join us for the ninth degree. Hello, Hello, Hello, welcome back.
Speaker 2: How are you.
Speaker 1: I'm okay, how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm good? Thank you. Just back from a nice little holiday,
Speaker 2: so I'm all yeah, happy to be back at work,
Speaker 2: said no one ever.
Speaker 1: But you had a good time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a really good time, thank you. Good. A couple
Speaker 2: of days in New York, and then a nice little
Speaker 2: cruise in the Caribbean which was fun.
Speaker 1: Can't be bad.
Speaker 2: No. I was thinking just before this, I was like,
Speaker 2: how we have to talk about settings for episodes, and
Speaker 2: I was like, Deck nine of the Titanic would have
Speaker 2: been good. And then I just heard this voice in
Speaker 2: my head of Reese go all right, what happens?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's your job as a writer, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, yeah, you're the right here. I'll just do
Speaker 2: the ideas. Man.
Speaker 1: It's a good idea, though, I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I'm sure there's lots of stuff that
Speaker 2: could have happened on that deck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, on that night. Yeah, the famous one was the
Speaker 1: bus one, wasn't it that people kept saying that he
Speaker 1: was annoyed about. Yeah, because the part of anything I
Speaker 1: said that would be really tricky to film with, like
Speaker 1: what's out the windows and the continuity and everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that would be really tricky unless you just drive
Speaker 2: around incredibly generic estates.
Speaker 1: Yes, or do it all green screen.
Speaker 2: Well yeah, the old style of like the projector screen
Speaker 2: and stuff and yeah backlip projector or whatever it was.
Speaker 2: How are you? Yeah, how's a new job?
Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, it's the rollercoaster.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've been there two weeks now, and on my first
Speaker 1: day in the office, I felt like crying several times, like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I made a terrible mistake. But people
Speaker 1: tell me that's normal actually when you start a new job. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and yeah, two weeks later, I do feel it's I'm
Speaker 1: starting to settle in and starting to get to grips
Speaker 1: with things so good good. Yeah, I need to remind
Speaker 1: myself to let things have time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, unless you're going into a job that's
Speaker 2: like CEO or something like, people assume that you're not,
Speaker 2: you're going to have a bit of time where you
Speaker 2: have to work out what the hell's going on exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's my trouble. I think I just
Speaker 1: assume that I'm going to be expected to know everything,
Speaker 1: and maybe I put that pressure on myself. But yeah, anyway, you're.
Speaker 2: Putting pressure on yourself.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, this is not a therapy, although,
Speaker 1: actually yeah, kind of appropriate.
Speaker 2: I just had Miranda from Devil was proud of being
Speaker 2: like groundbreaking.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah yeah last week's hair, what will we last week?
Speaker 2: Oh this is one of your fun ones?
Speaker 1: Well yeah it was very funny, wasn't it. So it was.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you spotted it. Lacuchet been ill
Speaker 1: for about a week, but hoping to be over it soon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: just means I'm going to be sorry.
Speaker 2: Bless you. Yes, nice done.
Speaker 1: You'll be pleased to know. I'm feeling better now, not
Speaker 1: one hundred percent, but getting there.
Speaker 2: Good, good, anyway, we will smuggle another one in this
Speaker 2: episode somewhere. Yeah. We're back this week with Series five,
Speaker 2: Episode five, Thinking out Loud.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The summary from the insannumon ang Wiki. Seven disparate characters
Speaker 2: share their stories with the camera, their fates inevitably, inextricably
Speaker 2: and unknowingly set for a head on collision. Quite to
Speaker 2: the point this week thoughts.
Speaker 1: Well, I just think technically that's not correct because the
Speaker 1: seventh one doesn't speak to the camera, she's just a voice.
Speaker 2: True.
Speaker 1: But yes, yes, so, yeah, interesting this one. I have
Speaker 1: to say. It's not my favorite episode. I don't hate it,
Speaker 1: but I'm not crazy about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think i'd agree. Okay, I don't think it's bad,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I have issues with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The thing that kept coming up in my head
Speaker 1: was it's a bit g right. Yeah, I don't know
Speaker 1: if that's really harsh to say.
Speaker 2: But yeah, now I can see that, you.
Speaker 1: Know, when you're like that age and you're you're coming
Speaker 1: up with like drama stuff and you're just like, oh,
Speaker 1: that would be so cool, that would be so edgy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's one we can really avoid
Speaker 2: the spoiler of.
Speaker 1: But probably not.
Speaker 2: It is like, it's quite a trope, isn't it. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: I think I think they do it reasonably well.
Speaker 1: Yes and no.
Speaker 2: Like the performances, I mean, at least.
Speaker 1: Oh, the perform of course, and they've got some fantastic
Speaker 1: cast in this episode. But when we get to the
Speaker 1: kind of reveal of the twist, it just feels very
Speaker 1: infra dumpy to me and very much like I agreed, Now,
Speaker 1: let's just explain what this was all about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Reese goes on about in an interview where he
Speaker 2: says that apparently it was if it was the producer
Speaker 2: was telling them that they should be explaining it more,
Speaker 2: and he was trying to say, like, you know, credit
Speaker 2: the audience with some intelligence, and they ended up having
Speaker 2: to include more of an explanation than they wanted to.
Speaker 1: Oh that is really interesting, really annoying to hear.
Speaker 2: Yeah, although I'm not sure, having read it, whether it's
Speaker 2: that he wanted them to be more explanatory than they
Speaker 2: were or whether he wore and they did.
Speaker 1: It's probably a back and forth, wasn't it, in a
Speaker 1: bit of give and take.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this person was concerned with what he calls the
Speaker 2: heart of thinking.
Speaker 1: Right, I can imagine what Reese's response to that was, Well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, reesays he thinks it's over explained. Our audience are clever.
Speaker 2: They would have got it.
Speaker 1: Yeah that does make sense.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, sorry, Initially the boys wen't in the ending
Speaker 2: to him less explanatory than it ended up being bound
Speaker 2: to pressure from executive producers. Yeah. That's a shame because
Speaker 2: that would have been my main criticism of it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but at least it wasn't their fault.
Speaker 1: It just goes to show I bang on my drum
Speaker 1: about this so much. Like I find it really irritated
Speaker 1: seeing the kind of the clash between the creative and
Speaker 1: the corporate and the like, you know, art being produced
Speaker 1: as a business, and like you have these people who
Speaker 1: are interested in the money side of things and that,
Speaker 1: but they don't they don't quite you know, creativity is
Speaker 1: organic and let the people who are doing the creating
Speaker 1: do what they want to do because they know what
Speaker 1: they did, what they're doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you've got you've got to series five
Speaker 2: by this point, they cleaning what they're doing. Yeah, trust them,
Speaker 2: they trust them. Yeah yeah, which is a shame, but.
Speaker 1: They anyway, So we open on this street, yes, called
Speaker 1: Did you see the sign It's called Avenue Gardens.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I didn't see the sign, which I thought.
Speaker 1: Was the most generic street ever, so dull like road road.
Speaker 2: So we first see Phil walking up to the house, sorry,
Speaker 2: Bill walking up to the house, played by Phil Davis.
Speaker 1: Yes, Bill played by Phil. Yeah, Phil playing Bill. And
Speaker 1: also the nign in that sort of stained glass with
Speaker 1: all the colors.
Speaker 2: Yes, I feel like we probably should just say what
Speaker 2: the twist is and okay, we can then address it
Speaker 2: a lot more easily.
Speaker 1: I'm sure if you're listening you know, Yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2: Sure you do. But so the whole point of this
Speaker 2: episode is that Nadia Maxine Peaks character is suffering from
Speaker 2: dissociative identity disorder and has several characters in her head.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I like the stained glass and like the
Speaker 2: fracturing element, and like that's in a lot of the
Speaker 2: other shots. And if you notice, like, yeah, Angel's room
Speaker 2: has like stained glass, and I think there's like a
Speaker 2: reflection in Aiden's room, like you can see the moon
Speaker 2: or something, and it's all like cracked and stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then there's Galen's obviously his video keeps crackling, which
Speaker 2: I guess is the one that they're trying to do there,
Speaker 2: it's nice.
Speaker 1: And then the actual colors in the stained glass, like
Speaker 1: they represent the different characters, right, So you've got the
Speaker 1: orange of Galen and the pink of Angel.
Speaker 2: I do like a lot of the little symbolism and
Speaker 2: stuff in this episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like it has done quite well for the most part.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of very subtle little things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a very different episode. Yeah, very much like
Speaker 1: the sort of talking heads.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's what they aim for apparently. Yeah, they were
Speaker 2: wanting to do a Alan Bennett Alan Bennett. That's the one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, although the difference being that there it's just theatrical
Speaker 1: device if they just happen to be doing a little monologue,
Speaker 1: whereas here they actually have a purpose. They're doing it
Speaker 1: to camera for whatever reason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, where do we start? I guess with the Bill video.
Speaker 1: M hm, so, oh my god, dating video.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's it's it's so painful. It doesn't
Speaker 2: help that he's not a very nice person.
Speaker 1: No, no, he's not painting himself in a very good line.
Speaker 2: It's really not.
Speaker 1: And I mean it's just a lie, isn't it. That
Speaker 1: video dating is coming back in like the eighties.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's not true. What's something happening in like
Speaker 2: twenty twenty that I missed?
Speaker 1: I don't know, unless it's like I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know. Is there an app or something that you
Speaker 1: do that I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm not aware of. No, something just used by personal
Speaker 2: trainers apparently apparently.
Speaker 1: Yes, God, he's a horrible man, isn't he.
Speaker 2: He's awful.
Speaker 1: I mean, Phil Davis is great at playing horrible men.
Speaker 2: Yes, hasn't he. Yeah, it's sort of snarly horrible man.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He'd worked with Steve during Whitechapel that I'd mentioned a
Speaker 2: few weeks ago. Yeah, apparently he'd loved it and asked
Speaker 2: if he could be in it or they'd love him
Speaker 2: Macart and Butch where around it was. M hmm. It's
Speaker 2: nice that he gets the sort of play a character,
Speaker 2: at least at the start that's kind of not his
Speaker 2: type in a way, like he's not a good person,
Speaker 2: but he's not a bad guy. Like he's just got
Speaker 2: some not very nice opinions, but he's not some sort
Speaker 2: of snarly, nasty baddie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And there's a slight slight sympathy for him,
Speaker 1: like that he's obviously lonely and wants companionship. Yeah, seems
Speaker 1: he's very fussy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think if you're on one of these
Speaker 2: websites and you have this age, you can probably be
Speaker 2: that fussy. No, it's a little pleased at the end.
Speaker 2: That gets me.
Speaker 1: Oh that is sad, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we shouldn't feel too sorry for him.
Speaker 2: We shouldn't know. But he's not a good person.
Speaker 1: No, But from it from a point of view of
Speaker 1: your first watch, yeah.
Speaker 2: You feel you know, I do enjoy that he doesn't
Speaker 2: want Looney's Lefties oor Liverpudlians.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they just needed something else to start with an
Speaker 1: l Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know why what we say is just objective
Speaker 2: here and what we've done around like we've already said
Speaker 2: what happens because he's lost his wife. There's been lots
Speaker 2: of trips to a hospital.
Speaker 1: He's presenting it as you know, he's sadly lost his wife, Doreen.
Speaker 1: But obviously we found out the end that he essentially
Speaker 1: killed her.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm not spotted until I was reading in an
Speaker 2: interview with them that his line about enough of male
Speaker 2: Company was because he'd been in jail. Yes, I had
Speaker 2: not clocked that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're very good at that. Yeah, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of that in this episode.
Speaker 2: Lines that on their own don't really mean much. Yes,
Speaker 2: you can so easily write off as something else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will say I think, you know how some
Speaker 1: episodes just hit different on the second watch. This is
Speaker 1: really one of those. Oh yeah, And like I watched
Speaker 1: it the other day just casually just to refresh myself
Speaker 1: of what this was, and I was a bit like
Speaker 1: h And then I watched it again to actually go
Speaker 1: in detail and make notes, and on the second watch
Speaker 1: it was like, actually, yeah, this is actually really quite
Speaker 1: good in some ways.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the performances are really good, the script's really good.
Speaker 2: I just think it loses it in the last sort
Speaker 2: of five minutes for me. Yeah, which is a shame
Speaker 2: because that's what it's building towards.
Speaker 1: But exactly, yeah, I just had to call it. I
Speaker 1: know it's awful. But the way he says about his
Speaker 1: personal training is like he's Muslim, but we have a
Speaker 1: laugh about it. Yeah, I mean I don't know what
Speaker 1: that means.
Speaker 2: It's such a so that generation. Yeah, it's just the
Speaker 2: casualness of the sort of exactly racism or xenophobia or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you get of them people. Yeah, I grew up in
Speaker 2: a lot of village. I know lots of people like this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because when you think about the country that we
Speaker 1: live in, and you think, like we tend to live
Speaker 1: in a bit of a bubble and think that things
Speaker 1: are all right. You know, every time there's an election,
Speaker 1: we see that actually they're not.
Speaker 2: I do not know.
Speaker 1: No, it's just crazy.
Speaker 2: It comes so far, but they're still so far to go.
Speaker 1: These people are around us everywhere and we just walk
Speaker 1: past them probably yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Walking around like regular people sixth sensors. Yeah, and they
Speaker 2: all can vote exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, that's sad. So do we need to send
Speaker 1: any more about the bill section at this point?
Speaker 2: I don't think so. Who are we going to next?
Speaker 1: Well, so via a little transition of postcards on a
Speaker 1: pin board, yes, we move on to Nadia.
Speaker 2: Now, at what point in this episode, By the way,
Speaker 2: I should say this up front, when did you work
Speaker 2: out what the what the twist was? Because I feel
Speaker 2: like it's very obvious.
Speaker 1: I can't I honestly can't remember. But there I mean,
Speaker 1: there are still things that I'm like, what are you
Speaker 1: supposed to take from it at this point in the
Speaker 1: episode and stuff, because when it cuts to Nadia, you
Speaker 1: can see it's very obviously the same house that yes,
Speaker 1: Bill just walked into. Yeah, so at that point you
Speaker 1: on your first watch, what are you supposed to think?
Speaker 1: Are you supposed to think this is a house that
Speaker 1: happens to do filming for video dating and also therapy?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, yeah, so that was my thing. So I
Speaker 2: think I worked out quite quickly what was going on
Speaker 2: because of my anal retentiveness of thinking that, well, it's
Speaker 2: got to be an inside a nine.
Speaker 1: Yes exactly, it's all going to be in the same location.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's all in the same location. We've seen
Speaker 2: two locations are clearly very different. Oh, it's all just
Speaker 2: the same person. I think I've figured out quite quickly.
Speaker 2: I don't, okay, I mean, I don't think I've read
Speaker 2: it out that quickly. After we've had about three or
Speaker 2: four of them, I say, how is this? And you've
Speaker 2: had you'd had the door in name dropped at least twice,
Speaker 2: maybe three times. Yes, I was like, oh, well they're
Speaker 2: all somehow very connected.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how you can explain that this
Speaker 2: is still in the nine if they're not something weird
Speaker 2: going on.
Speaker 1: I think at some point in the episode, I think
Speaker 1: I was. I was starting to think, because you've obviously
Speaker 1: got the names on the postcards on the wall, yes,
Speaker 1: and there's this Angel says something about in here, Yes,
Speaker 1: and if it sounds like maybe this is some sort
Speaker 1: of home or like some sort of institution, yeah, and
Speaker 1: they've all got separate rooms, and that maybe they're all
Speaker 1: patients at this place.
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, it could have worked.
Speaker 1: That was kind of what I was thinking. It's like
Speaker 1: at one point. But then obviously you know the clues
Speaker 1: about the names and stuff. Yeah, you start to see
Speaker 1: that there's a there's more of a connection.
Speaker 2: It's quite good that the name how the names aren't
Speaker 2: immediately obvious as anagrams. Yeah, weirdly you think they would
Speaker 2: be more obvious than they are. Yes, But they did
Speaker 2: film all of Aiden, Nadia and Angel videos all in
Speaker 2: the same house they did, Yeah, and the other two
Speaker 2: were sets. Well, the church was real, but the other
Speaker 2: two sets, So I suppose it's sort of all in
Speaker 2: the nine still thought of.
Speaker 1: But that's the thing, like when it cuts to the church.
Speaker 1: I think when I watched this the first time, I
Speaker 1: just kind of forgot that it's it's all supposed to
Speaker 1: be inside the same location, and I think maybe they're
Speaker 1: banking on that that you just kind of, I guess,
Speaker 1: forget that for a second.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or that you've gone, well one of them is,
Speaker 2: so we'll let you off on the others.
Speaker 1: Hmmm.
Speaker 2: I guess. I guess the bill video at the start
Speaker 2: could have been just like something she was watching or whatever.
Speaker 2: Doesn't I suppose need to be in the nine. Does
Speaker 2: that make sense?
Speaker 1: No, But he's the He's the one that you literally
Speaker 1: see walk into the number nine. So I guess the
Speaker 1: one that must be in the number nine.
Speaker 2: I guess, like some of them do use bits that
Speaker 2: aren't like say Devil of Christmas for example, we're not
Speaker 2: saying that the police interview happens in a nine for example.
Speaker 2: Oh that's true, Like you sort of say that the
Speaker 2: main setting is but other stuff can be going on
Speaker 2: in other locations, yeah, or something could have been pre
Speaker 2: recorded or whatever that they're having to watch there.
Speaker 1: But this one being so saigmented into like you know,
Speaker 1: six or seven chunks of it's clearly sort of six
Speaker 1: equal parts of one whole. M I think that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't really feel like one is the main
Speaker 2: story as such.
Speaker 1: No, exactly. Yeah, so I guess you're kind of not
Speaker 1: sure what you're watching at first, Like, why are we
Speaker 1: seeing these seemingly unrelated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dinah's is a little bit smaller, but otherwise they're
Speaker 2: all kind of equal. Mm hm, who do we go to?
Speaker 2: So Nadia's for next? Sorry? So yeah, telling her a
Speaker 2: little story.
Speaker 1: Yes, so, I mean I've written down therapy session. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but actually I guess we don't necessarily twig that until
Speaker 1: the therapist speaks at the end of that first section.
Speaker 2: Yeah, talking about her awful friends.
Speaker 1: Yes, the smugs.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It reminded me of that clip from ab Fab
Speaker 2: where she's like, I've got some news or whatever it is,
Speaker 2: you're not going to believe it or whatever. She's fat,
Speaker 2: she's dead, she's blind thing. Okay, have you not seen it?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: No, okay, look it up. It's very funny. I thought
Speaker 2: you loved Fab.
Speaker 1: I have not really watched it. I keep meaning to.
Speaker 2: I'm not a particular fan either, but I've seen that
Speaker 2: clip a lot. But yeah, so she's very happy.
Speaker 1: This one is particularly monologuy Alan Bennetty talking heads and
Speaker 1: about going around the dinner table and doing the porn names. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's very good, isn't she a Maxine Peak?
Speaker 2: She is good. She reminds me a bit of Julie
Speaker 2: Walters weirdly, just to weird intonations and things. Oh okay,
Speaker 2: I don't know what it was, but I just got
Speaker 2: her from that. I think it's the weird mouth movement
Speaker 2: she has. Oh okay, I like the high open asda
Speaker 2: thing as if that's like, you know, he of where
Speaker 2: you'd aimed to and I met she's high open as
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, she's on the second floor. I mean there's
Speaker 1: some great little bits, like the the O pair whose
Speaker 1: poor name is Cornie Lingus. Yeah, she gets upset and
Speaker 1: what she says about oh she's Italian porns like Baker
Speaker 1: for them everyone's having to go.
Speaker 2: Why not?
Speaker 1: The thing about oh, your poor name is your first
Speaker 1: pet followed by your mother's maiden name. It's like the
Speaker 1: things you always see on Facebook and stuff. And it's
Speaker 1: like anyone who does that is just like giving people
Speaker 1: their security questions answers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got a note to say that. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: just one of those things that has been designed by
Speaker 2: scammers exactly. Yeah, but people for for it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I almost said do we do it? And then I
Speaker 2: was like, no, that's not a good idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was thinking the same. I was going to say, oh,
Speaker 1: we should do it, and then like maybe not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the lan is quite good, so I'm not going
Speaker 2: to say it. Mom is quite good.
Speaker 1: Oh your porn name, I'll tell you after tell me afterwards. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe you might use it one day, I don't.
Speaker 2: They well, maybe maybe you already.
Speaker 1: Have well who knows.
Speaker 2: But yeah, then it takes quite a dark turn all
Speaker 2: of a sudden. She's quite sad.
Speaker 1: Yes, so Nadia never knew her who her mother was.
Speaker 2: It's one of those horrible things of people just having
Speaker 2: a joke and then saying something and not realizing how
Speaker 2: it might affect someone exactly, because you're never going to
Speaker 2: know that you can't make a joke about whatever. No,
Speaker 2: suddenly it really hurts someone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but also at the end of the day, like
Speaker 1: you can't you know, people would never say anything if
Speaker 1: they had to constantly, if you had to think of
Speaker 1: every possible exactly, yeah, alternative, Yeah, but.
Speaker 2: Just Jaws is a great porn name it works. I mean, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm hoping it was a fish.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh she said a goldfish.
Speaker 2: Yeah the sheet Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, then we hear the therapist voice. She's
Speaker 1: very yeah, very stereotypical. Yes, how did it feel talking
Speaker 1: about your mother? And Nadia's just sort of zone now interesting?
Speaker 2: Yes, what's happening in her head? And that's about her
Speaker 2: section over I.
Speaker 1: Think, yeah, that's one of my favorite sections. I think
Speaker 1: is her mono.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is nice, and it's funny, Like it's not
Speaker 2: a particularly funny episode, so it's nice that you get somebody.
Speaker 2: It's got some sections, some chuckles in it, yeah, onto Galen, Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean where do we start with the interesting characterization? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Or the wig costume?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's it's a brave move when on
Speaker 2: your first view you're meant to buy this as a
Speaker 2: real character. Yeah, and it just looks as if, okay,
Speaker 2: Steve can't really do American all that. I mean, it's okay,
Speaker 2: it's not bad.
Speaker 1: Actually, I think it's the accent so much as the dialogue,
Speaker 1: the choice of the like the slang, and the.
Speaker 2: Such a caricature.
Speaker 1: It's such a caricature. Yeah, it's ridiculous actually, and the
Speaker 1: fact that he you know, it's like pole lease yeah,
Speaker 1: and all that, it's literally like.
Speaker 2: Every other every fourth word has gone through some sort
Speaker 2: of Louisiana translator.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even right at the beginning when he's like
Speaker 1: the sugar State. Mmmm, it's ridiculous. And the costume, like
Speaker 1: it looks like a Halloween costume.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the wig. I think this might be the worst
Speaker 1: wig we've had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a contender.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh my god. And it's supposed to be so
Speaker 1: serious as.
Speaker 2: Far as you're aware on first view, Yeah, this is
Speaker 2: meant to be some mass murderer. Yeah, but that's all intentional.
Speaker 1: Well, the ridiculousness the charricature is yeah, I suppose.
Speaker 2: Because ultimately this is Nadia's version of what she thinks
Speaker 2: an American murder would sound. Well, yeah, the Deep South.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's true.
Speaker 2: And she's not that great at it.
Speaker 1: No, but you can't forgive the wig. Yeah, I'm sure
Speaker 1: she could have imagined a better hair.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I guess how deep do you think about
Speaker 2: this is? This is the character she probably doesn't want
Speaker 2: to think about. Yeah, so she's probably put the least
Speaker 2: amount of like thought into it. Yeah, so that's why
Speaker 2: maybe comes across as so weak compared to the others.
Speaker 1: That's true. A real person, you know, they're good when
Speaker 1: like something's deliberately bad and actually that's genius. It's bad
Speaker 1: for a reason.
Speaker 2: And also if she plays him up as being a caricature,
Speaker 2: maybe that makes him less real. Yeah. I don't know
Speaker 2: how intentionally bad he is, like yeah from her point
Speaker 2: of view, I mean, and she's got him locked up
Speaker 2: in chains as well.
Speaker 1: Like she's keeping him locked away. Yeah, but yeah, it is.
Speaker 1: It is painful to watch our skin and a rarebit
Speaker 1: I said to Ma, we're got to eat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got in my notes is Galing intentionally a caricature?
Speaker 2: And then by the end I'm like, obviously, yes, that's
Speaker 2: not a question.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So again we've got Dorien. Is his mum?
Speaker 1: Yes, who's died?
Speaker 2: Who's died?
Speaker 1: Well, he killed her?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that would happen, I suppose.
Speaker 1: Is that also like Nadia blaming herself for the death
Speaker 1: of her mother. Oh yeah, saying that you know, she's
Speaker 1: responsible for her death, so I killed her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she was only little, so yeah, she'll have
Speaker 2: probably blamed herself more than she realistically should have. Yeah,
Speaker 2: obviously it's never her fault. But you know, if she
Speaker 2: was I doing at fifteen or something, she might have
Speaker 2: said something to someone or whatever, Like you could rationalize
Speaker 2: it that it's your fault. Yeah, But when you're like
Speaker 2: three or four, like, no, it's never your fault.
Speaker 1: I mean when you're Yeah, when you're that young, the
Speaker 1: world rolls around you. So everything that happens, you think
Speaker 1: is because of you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, in no matter how she dresses it up,
Speaker 2: it could never be her fault.
Speaker 1: No, absolutely not. But that is what happens, isn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: people's minds. Yeah, this was another one of those what
Speaker 1: felt like a sort of trying to be edgy monologue.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen there's a TikTok that
Speaker 1: I absolutely love at the moment. It's a caricature of
Speaker 1: that kind of a level or auditioning for drama school
Speaker 1: sort of edgy monologue, and it's you if you've seen
Speaker 1: these kind of things, it's so true. The guy's just
Speaker 1: like I found a lizard at the bottom of our
Speaker 1: garden once, little green thing with black eyes, and it's
Speaker 1: it's so accurate.
Speaker 2: If you're saying in that voice, Yeah, what you say,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter exactly. Yeah, all sounds like it thinks
Speaker 2: it's profound.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I could just hear like this, this is
Speaker 1: you know, the story about killing the rabbit and killing
Speaker 1: the mum and killing dad. Like it's that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: It's a matter of fact that you're so detached from it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you do it without any backing music
Speaker 2: or anything just to camera, it sounds better than it is.
Speaker 1: I like when he says about I like to get
Speaker 1: into other folks heads. I think that's the first of
Speaker 1: a few references.
Speaker 2: So that's a lot of nice little lines like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Another thing is that they intentionally filmed it all on
Speaker 2: single cameras except for Bill. Yes, which is cool. It
Speaker 2: must have made filming it very easy.
Speaker 1: Well, well, I think it presents its own challenges, to
Speaker 1: be honest, because you've got to nail it in that
Speaker 1: one take, and then true, you don't have the options of, oh,
Speaker 1: let's put a bit from this one and a bit
Speaker 1: from that one. You just have to choose the one.
Speaker 2: I meant it more from a logistical point of view,
Speaker 2: in terms of you have to worry about fashing about
Speaker 2: with camera tracks and dollies and all this sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: You don't need to worry about scheduling because they next
Speaker 2: to never have to be in the same room together.
Speaker 2: Like Reese's bit and Steve's bit. Could we filmed months
Speaker 2: apart and it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's easy to technical point of view. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it swings and roundabouts, because like I said, I think
Speaker 1: it makes the whole thing a lot more difficult in
Speaker 1: some ways because obviously they're tied to this whatever it
Speaker 1: is twenty seven minute or whatever it is time slot
Speaker 1: and they can't tighten anything up in editing.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah that's true. Steve said that there's lots of
Speaker 2: I want more emotion but quicker yeah yeah, yeah, just
Speaker 2: do it again, but like shave off thirty seconds, yes yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that is tricky.
Speaker 1: This is very much because there's a huge difference between
Speaker 1: TV acting and like theater acting. Yeah, they are very
Speaker 1: different skills really, and I think this comes from a
Speaker 1: much more theatrical place of like, oh yeah, you've got
Speaker 1: to have those lines back to front and in your
Speaker 1: head and.
Speaker 2: Just be able to do it over and over and
Speaker 2: over again, different inflections, different timing, and.
Speaker 1: You know if they say, oh, we're going to cut
Speaker 1: that paragraph. You've got to just be able to just
Speaker 1: amend to that immediately. Yeah, in your head, it's not easy.
Speaker 2: I guess they'll have had to do it where the
Speaker 2: whole speech takes a minute fifty, a minute, forty, a
Speaker 2: minute thirty, because they won't know that when they come
Speaker 2: to cut it together how long everything else is going.
Speaker 1: To take exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, have to do reshoots and bring people back.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think Steve said they filmed his one's last,
Speaker 1: so he knew how much time he.
Speaker 2: Had left to fill. Yeah. I wonder if there's somewhere
Speaker 2: they've just sped up the footage as well, by such
Speaker 2: a small amount that you don't really notice. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: just to shave off a second or two here and there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Fortunately, the dating video you can do little edits
Speaker 1: and cut that down. And the same with Angel because
Speaker 1: there are jumps in. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Yes, but they do give themselves room. But yeah, like
Speaker 2: you say, tricky on an editing point of view, they.
Speaker 1: Do, you like to give themselves a challenge. And once again,
Speaker 1: like we said, with cold comfort, where Reese and Steve
Speaker 1: directed that and it was going to be they thought
Speaker 1: it was going to be easy because it was just
Speaker 1: static cameras. Steve directed this episode, Yes, and again thought
Speaker 1: probably it was going to be easy because of that,
Speaker 1: but actually not. Yeah, So should we move on to Angel?
Speaker 2: Yes, she's annoying, isn't she.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think she's grown on me. She's I think
Speaker 1: the first time I watched it, I was like, cringe, cringe, cringe. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think I've grown to appreciate, like it's actually
Speaker 1: a spot one. Yeah, it's so good.
Speaker 2: It's always drinking from a bottle thing. I hate it
Speaker 2: when people are like, I'm just recording this TikTok while
Speaker 2: I'm having a dinner dinner, and then record it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you've not got like not every minute of your days
Speaker 2: accounted for. I'm sure you could have squeezed this in later,
Speaker 2: like why are you cooking your rice?
Speaker 1: Like why didn't they do it for the esthetic?
Speaker 2: It's so frustrating for me.
Speaker 1: Yes, but even like the yeah, the jump cuts and
Speaker 1: the micro edits and stuff, it's so yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I don't know if YouTube's like
Speaker 1: that now, but it was very much you know, in
Speaker 1: the twenty tens, that was very much the thing I.
Speaker 2: Know if YouTube would be like that now, but TikTok
Speaker 2: definitely is.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't think. I think this is
Speaker 1: very YouTube, Like I.
Speaker 2: Mean, TikTok wouldn't exist at the time when this well no.
Speaker 1: No, but I mean I mean, like the what's the thing?
Speaker 1: She says something about my mother, my mum, my Madre,
Speaker 1: and it's like all these different versions of it coming in.
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't know. I didn't used to watch
Speaker 1: too many vloggers on YouTube back in the day, but
Speaker 1: the ones I did watch it was that sort of thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, she's frustrating and like she took three hours off
Speaker 2: as a charity thing.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, for fuck's.
Speaker 2: Sake, I take seven. I was off every night when
Speaker 2: I go to bed. It's a bigger deal.
Speaker 1: That's very funny. And I also love how she's like,
Speaker 1: I did it for charity. She can't even remember the
Speaker 1: name of the charity.
Speaker 2: She's like, did I give them any way? I don't remember.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, she's very vapid. Yeah, and that oh god.
Speaker 1: So she says the thing about buzzing away like my
Speaker 1: mother's rabbit, and then she's like, oh, don't tell her
Speaker 1: and it's so it's so like stage, like she's obviously
Speaker 1: did that deliberately to have a moment of like reality.
Speaker 1: But yeah, this again, that's so realistic. Yeah, but she's
Speaker 1: I think she's very good. She performs it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, she's great. Yeah. But the character if she
Speaker 2: can get in the.
Speaker 1: Bin, so we get a mention of Galen Landry, Yes,
Speaker 1: more of a connection across so.
Speaker 2: They do exist in the same world. Yeah, I'm a
Speaker 2: bit unsure about how all of this really works, Like
Speaker 2: he's all of this, all of the stuff that isn't
Speaker 2: Nadia saying it's all fully imagined. Is Nadia Lake making
Speaker 2: YouTube videos?
Speaker 1: I think I think it's all sitting in the chair.
Speaker 2: I think it is, Yeah, because she.
Speaker 1: Does that bit later where she's doing the voices. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so then I think we're seeing it from the outside perspective.
Speaker 1: But I think for the most of it, we're seeing
Speaker 1: it from inside her mind.
Speaker 2: It's all just her imagination. Yeah, yeah, I think that's
Speaker 2: what I concluded. But yeah, they said they've thrown in
Speaker 2: the line about Nadia having a daughter purely to explain
Speaker 2: how she would know about YouTube influences. Oh, to explain
Speaker 2: like why would she know about this so well as well.
Speaker 1: I have to say that bit when when she says
Speaker 1: in her own voice, she's like, oh, hashtag amazeballs, it's cringing,
Speaker 1: it's so cringey.
Speaker 2: That would be another one that I think, like a
Speaker 2: bit like Galen, how it's so CARICATURI I would say
Speaker 2: that the Angel one shouldn't be so good a copy
Speaker 2: of what it's trying to be, maybe because I don't
Speaker 2: think that Nadia would be that good at it.
Speaker 1: M I don't know, but also like you pick up
Speaker 1: these things on levels that we don't even understand in
Speaker 1: our brains, Like I suppose Steve was saying about how
Speaker 1: people apparently who have a sociative identity disorder can do
Speaker 1: things in their other personalities that they would never be
Speaker 1: able to do in their main personality, Like apparently they
Speaker 1: could if they're right handed, and then one of their
Speaker 1: personalities is left handed, they could write perfectly where with
Speaker 1: the left hand, or or they might be able to
Speaker 1: draw like an amazing picture that they could never do normally.
Speaker 2: Read music or whatever. Speak off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe things are just going in subconsciously, I guess, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's a fascinating condition. I don't know how much of
Speaker 2: it's actually real, Like how many of these things actually happen?
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, how much has been fictionalized?
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I imagine massively, but I'm sure it happens occasionally.
Speaker 1: Another reference to are given Peace of my Mind. Hmm.
Speaker 2: And Angel's army as well, like if she thinks of
Speaker 2: herself as an army. There's several of them.
Speaker 1: Oh, I hadn't thought of that. Ye see, I was
Speaker 1: just thinking of that because Angel's army being her followers.
Speaker 2: Like her fans, but she herself is an army.
Speaker 1: Her name is that as well. Yeah, so yeah, that
Speaker 1: makes sense. I love the I love the bit about Babe.
Speaker 2: Oh Babe's an old film.
Speaker 1: Now, it's so true, like these these like you know,
Speaker 1: eighteen nineteen year old influencers who are like, so, I
Speaker 1: didn't know this, but apparently it's a film from like
Speaker 1: years ago. Yeah.
Speaker 2: When I was in New York, we went and saw
Speaker 2: Cha Cargo on Broadway and I was in the key
Speaker 2: for the toilets at one point and I heard two people.
Speaker 2: It was in the interval, and I heard two people
Speaker 2: talking about how great the show was. And oh, there's
Speaker 2: also a film, you know, like you might want to
Speaker 2: watch it from ages ago and everyone was like.
Speaker 1: Really, oh god, two thousand and something.
Speaker 2: Not even that long ago. Yeah, yeah, I mean no, no, objectively,
Speaker 2: Baby is quite a old film, and it was when
Speaker 2: I was a kid. But yes, it doesn't feel that
Speaker 2: old now, like the amount of times that I'll say
Speaker 2: that'll do, pick that'll do, and really hope that the
Speaker 2: person gets what I'm saying. Yeah, otherwise it's a really
Speaker 2: strange thing to have said.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm just wondering what context you've said that in
Speaker 1: now anyway, Do we have anything more to say on
Speaker 1: that section?
Speaker 2: I don't think so. It's just annoying and I'm glad
Speaker 2: it's over.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, i'd say that is. It is very annoying,
Speaker 1: but it's also one of my favorite sections. I really
Speaker 1: enjoy how accurate it is.
Speaker 2: That's true. Yeah, yeah, oh no, I like, I love
Speaker 2: how accurate it is. But yeah, I just hate that
Speaker 2: kind of person so much.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, completely completely. See Ben still watches like YouTube
Speaker 1: bloggers now, he watches them on the TV when I'm
Speaker 1: trying to do something on my laptop and I've just
Speaker 1: got some person wittering on in the background about something
Speaker 1: I don't care about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the fact that how everyone loves them so
Speaker 2: much and how they get all this free ship for
Speaker 2: doing nothing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't get it.
Speaker 2: I suppose we're half the problem with podcasting. So you know,
Speaker 2: well it's step reproved. Oh I nearly did, nearly an accident.
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to write a play about a vlogger
Speaker 1: because I just think it'd be so fascinating the way
Speaker 1: that people present themselves online as there how they want
Speaker 1: their life to be perceived versus what it actually is, because.
Speaker 2: You never see the other side, so curated.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it could be really interesting anyway, Aidan aid,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, let's bring the mood down right.
Speaker 2: Oh, Race is good this week.
Speaker 1: I think he's fantastic. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh, where do we start. So Reese is the father
Speaker 2: of an unborn child that he's we find is recording
Speaker 2: videos for this child as he doesn't expect to live
Speaker 2: to see them born. Yeah, which is so sad.
Speaker 1: Hmm.
Speaker 2: He's clearly such a nice guy as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's really loving.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like the father everyone wants to have, you know,
Speaker 2: they're always on your side and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, imagine being that child and growing up and
Speaker 1: that's the only thing you've got of your father. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that would be I don't know how.
Speaker 2: And at what point would the mom show the child that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like because on one hand is it a nice thing,
Speaker 1: but on the other hand, actually does it make it worse?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Never having known them, Yeah is it easier.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've only ever known having one parent, so it
Speaker 2: doesn't bother you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine actually being that person and that all
Speaker 1: you have is that on the other side of the
Speaker 1: screen that you can't get to.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Tragic, really really tragic, especially knowing that they were
Speaker 2: a good person, Like if you'd never known them, and
Speaker 2: you can imagine that they were an awful person and
Speaker 2: that you're better off with out them, and then to
Speaker 2: find it actually probably would have been better with them.
Speaker 1: M Also, is there a slight parallel there of the
Speaker 1: daughter is never going to know her father in the
Speaker 1: same way that Nadia never knew her mother.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I assumed it was sort.
Speaker 1: Of mirroring that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, mirroring it.
Speaker 1: We get this whole thing about the radio show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Dave Lee Travis and Quack Quack Oops.
Speaker 2: Group got in for the quiz at the end.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it was just very relatable what he was
Speaker 1: saying about the sundayishness of something making me feel depressed
Speaker 1: about the week starting again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we say recording this on a Sunday.
Speaker 1: Yes, in our house. It was the Heartbeat theme tune.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I'll do it. That was a time
Speaker 2: heartbeat that set in the seventies and had about fifteen Christmases.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Obviously another reference to Doreen as a mother.
Speaker 2: Yep, bigger So she was Aidan's mother. Yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 2: hammering at home a bit at this point, I think
Speaker 2: it would have maybe I don't know whether I personally
Speaker 2: would have put the same name for all of them,
Speaker 2: because Bill at the beginning says that you know, says
Speaker 2: Dorian and says it's an old person's name or whatever.
Speaker 2: I'd have probably had other d names that sound old,
Speaker 2: like Doris or something that maybe on a second view
Speaker 2: is obvious, but on a first view isn't maybe quite
Speaker 2: so obvious.
Speaker 1: Maybe, Yeah, I guess people people pick things up at
Speaker 1: at different speed, And I think on my first watch,
Speaker 1: I think when I kept hearing the name Dorian and
Speaker 1: the connections and stuff I was trying to piece together
Speaker 1: in my head if they were all connected like some
Speaker 1: sort of family or you know, if his mother Dorian
Speaker 1: was also her mother, so maybe their siblings or you know,
Speaker 1: trying to obviously it doesn't work, but trying to put
Speaker 1: it together in your head as you go along.
Speaker 2: See if a family tree could exist with all thosemutations.
Speaker 1: Because then she'd also be Galen's mother, a family children.
Speaker 2: She's somehow they've not got the same awful accent. And
Speaker 2: at what point did she move to Louisiana?
Speaker 1: She gets about So then we have Diana m She's sweet, Yeah,
Speaker 1: a beautiful voice.
Speaker 2: It's such a pure so sweet and innocent, and it.
Speaker 1: Sort of bleeds into this montage which really gives us
Speaker 1: strong connection between them all that they're all hearing this yeah.
Speaker 1: And again when you're watching it for the first time,
Speaker 1: I think, like, how are they all hearing this?
Speaker 2: Ye? What's going on here?
Speaker 1: What's connecting them? And also it's a really good song
Speaker 1: choice because you know, it's very America, it's very popular
Speaker 1: in America, so it kind of fits for Galen. And
Speaker 1: then the funeral thing. He says that we found someone
Speaker 1: who's to sing at the funeral, Like that's a very funeral.
Speaker 2: Song and isn't it about slavery.
Speaker 1: Amazing grace.
Speaker 2: Am I mixing them up?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it rings the bell. Actually no, I
Speaker 1: think you're right.
Speaker 2: I think I thought it was, which makes sense that
Speaker 2: they're all sort of slaves to Nadia in a way,
Speaker 2: like they're all just yeah parts of her.
Speaker 1: Like, Yeah, it's a nice bit. This is a sort
Speaker 1: of central pause where we just have a moment, we
Speaker 1: have the song and I don't know if it's exactly
Speaker 1: halfway through the episode, but it's structurally it's kind of
Speaker 1: the midpoint because then we sort of we then mirror
Speaker 1: it and go back through the characters that we've seen.
Speaker 1: So back to Aidan, he's not looking good, no bless him,
Speaker 1: hanging on for his daughter, and he's this is where
Speaker 1: we really get a sense of how protective he is
Speaker 1: and that he's actually says he would kill for his child,
Speaker 1: which his role is revealed at the ends as one
Speaker 1: of the protectors.
Speaker 2: And you can see like in the first in his
Speaker 2: first video, how he was kind of a bit upbeat
Speaker 2: and like making jokes and trying to be a bit funny,
Speaker 2: and but at this point he's just kind of he can't. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's wrung him out. By now there's not much of
Speaker 2: him left. M hm. Then back to Angel mm hmmm.
Speaker 2: So she's doing a life at this point. Yeah, tick
Speaker 2: all the boxes.
Speaker 1: I love the bit when she says, I have got
Speaker 1: to skip to the loo, my darlings. Yeah, I might
Speaker 1: start saying that in life. It's just such a great
Speaker 1: little wordplay. I mean, yeah, I'd be very camp if
Speaker 1: I said that all the time.
Speaker 2: You camp never.
Speaker 1: Also than usual anyway, So she's talking about she's answering questions,
Speaker 1: and she's talking about her positive attitude, which again is
Speaker 1: this I think going back through these people is where
Speaker 1: we really start to see their roles within Nadia's mind.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they become much more have a purpose each.
Speaker 1: One, Yes, because she literally says about, you know, you
Speaker 1: have to drown out all the negative shit and just
Speaker 1: tune into the positive. And that's what her purpose is, yeah.
Speaker 2: Her reason for existing. Yeah, and then she leaves to
Speaker 2: pop to the loo. Oh my god, Gating pops up
Speaker 2: in the mirror quite terrifying. Yeah, it's such a it's
Speaker 2: such a horror film trope though, of whenever a mirror moves,
Speaker 2: it's always to reveal someone bad. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like he's just been standing there, so like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I know they're the same person, but like, yeah,
Speaker 1: could she could she see him like before? Or does
Speaker 1: she not know it was there?
Speaker 2: Well, I guess it's like she's left the room. Now
Speaker 2: it's he's taken over.
Speaker 1: Now it's his turn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so presumably he didn't exist until she left
Speaker 2: the room.
Speaker 1: Yes, I guess. I just mean, like ostensibly when you're
Speaker 1: watching it and you.
Speaker 2: Don't, yeah, because behind the curtain or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's weird. But again, this is like things throughout
Speaker 1: the episode have gradually been bleeding through into other things,
Speaker 1: and this is the first time somebody physically crosses from
Speaker 1: one to the other. Yes, so it's a really like whoa,
Speaker 1: what the fuck.
Speaker 2: Moment, especially for it to be the two most opposite characters,
Speaker 2: like the most us well maybe not the most in
Speaker 2: us and I guess that'd be Diana, but the most
Speaker 2: carefree person. And then this mass murderer.
Speaker 1: Interesting. Did you see as well how the little live
Speaker 1: thing in the top changes to evil?
Speaker 2: Did it?
Speaker 1: He reverses?
Speaker 3: And brilliant because what is live backwards?
Speaker 2: Hearing what is named backwards?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is where it all kind of comes
Speaker 1: out for a bit we get the explanation and the review.
Speaker 1: This is where we were saying, like, it's just it
Speaker 1: gets a bit sort of Okay, now we're going to
Speaker 1: explain what this episode was about.
Speaker 2: Like, I don't think I would have pointed out the
Speaker 2: anagram name thing.
Speaker 1: No, because that's so.
Speaker 2: It's just a nice thing that you would work out yourself. Yes,
Speaker 2: it's like, oh look what we did. Did you spot it?
Speaker 1: Exactly?
Speaker 2: But she practically says that as well.
Speaker 1: She literally says did you notice that? She'll you know
Speaker 1: your name is an anagram?
Speaker 2: Did you realize, clever viewer, Yes, oh dear, it's called that.
Speaker 2: Galen and Angel are one pair of the names.
Speaker 1: Yes, like that.
Speaker 2: There's such an opposite I think it would. I imagine
Speaker 2: you probably could have found a name where all five work.
Speaker 1: You could have had five separate anagrams.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I imagine you probably could, but you'd have had
Speaker 2: one that was something weird and just wouldn't have worked.
Speaker 1: A Yeah, well, to be fair, I thought Galen was
Speaker 1: pretty weird.
Speaker 2: Oh I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've never heard that name before.
Speaker 2: I know him as a famous Greek Was he Greek
Speaker 2: or was he Roman? Like anatomist person? Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't he the one with the like the four
Speaker 1: humors or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: I think so, Yeah, I think it is a relative
Speaker 2: like not common, but you know, not uncommon American name.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, they have some weird names in America, don't they.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't think it's that weird in America.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so yeah, this is where we actually get
Speaker 1: explicitly said that Nadia's father is Bill and that he
Speaker 1: killed her mother.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, and then they go through all the characters and
Speaker 1: explain their kind of roles in the psychodrama. Yes, Diana
Speaker 1: is the child who remember but was told you haven't
Speaker 1: seen anything. Galen's the persecutor who holds all the self
Speaker 1: hatred and negativity.
Speaker 2: Aiden's the caretaker to look after them and protect them,
Speaker 2: and Angels there to reinforce the positivity and.
Speaker 1: Try and fight back against Yeah, and then it Nadia
Speaker 1: sort of points out that the therapist is also part
Speaker 1: of the system, so she's not actually there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. What's her name? She like Narleg or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we never find that out.
Speaker 2: She's an anagram of Angel and Galen because they only
Speaker 2: get two names.
Speaker 1: Although maybe it's this character is someone that Nadia has
Speaker 1: created as an external because obviously, you know she she
Speaker 1: says she's the gatekeeper and she sort of organizes everything.
Speaker 1: Perhaps it would would be helpful in that role to
Speaker 1: be sort of slightly outside, which is why we never
Speaker 1: see her. Yeah, she's sort of above and beyond in a.
Speaker 2: Way, she's management.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, I was. I was confused trying to
Speaker 1: work this out. So Nadia's been talking to a camera,
Speaker 1: which we think is a therapy session. Was the idea
Speaker 1: that she's doing it on zoom or something or is
Speaker 1: she just talking to a camera with the therapist in
Speaker 1: the room. Oh, in which case, why is she talking
Speaker 1: to a camera?
Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, because the therapist says about how she's got
Speaker 2: to record it all so she can spot what's going on. Yes,
Speaker 2: which doesn't really make sense when the therapist doesn't exist either.
Speaker 2: I could understand it if the therapist was like was
Speaker 2: real and she'd got to record it all so that
Speaker 2: she could watch it back and see what. Yes, you
Speaker 2: know how she was changing.
Speaker 1: But I think it's I think when we realized that,
Speaker 1: I think it's that Nadia the therapist, part of Nadia
Speaker 1: herself was trying to understand what's going on with her
Speaker 1: brain right, which is why when it starts to bleed
Speaker 1: and break down, maybe she is she's starting to understand Yeah,
Speaker 1: a bit, I don't know. So she's discovered that her
Speaker 1: father's come out of prison and she found his dating video,
Speaker 1: is that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't really know how.
Speaker 1: And invited him over on the pretext of a data scenario.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll try and ignore how much he'd presumably had
Speaker 2: to say to him beforehand to get him to come over.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I presumably she's had to be flirty with her own dad,
Speaker 2: which is weird enough anyway, let alone the fact that
Speaker 2: he's everything he's done, but presumably one of the other
Speaker 2: voices has taken over for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, although she very quickly just immediately just says, oh,
Speaker 1: you know my husband and daughter.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So, and the fact that Bill doesn't seem to
Speaker 2: really react to that very much.
Speaker 1: He's just like, oh, whatching, that's all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like he doesn't react at all to start with.
Speaker 1: Like mind Yeah, but I suppose he wouldn't, would he. Well,
Speaker 1: he might think this is just a.
Speaker 2: How we roll now have been in prison for the
Speaker 2: last twenty years, who knows what happens. Yeah, but I
Speaker 2: do enjoy when you see him walking up the path
Speaker 2: behind her, Yes, and like it becomes more than just
Speaker 2: her and a camera, like the outside world exists.
Speaker 1: Yes, that is cool. The timing, yeah, yeah, very good.
Speaker 2: And then she just kills him but as Galen as Galen.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and it's all in one cut as well.
Speaker 2: So I'm imagining Maxine Peek just running around the back
Speaker 2: of the house or something to appear on the other
Speaker 2: side of the archway.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well you say that he disappears behind the thing,
Speaker 1: so they could easily have cut that so.
Speaker 2: That I suppose there's no one in frame, is there,
Speaker 2: So I guess, yeah, they could.
Speaker 1: Have That's probably how they did it, But yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Prefer my idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, y're it's funny.
Speaker 2: They're ducking under a window in the background of the shot.
Speaker 1: And it's not I mean, surely it's not supposed to
Speaker 1: be funny, but the bit when he suddenly runs across
Speaker 1: the room with the knife, it kind of amuses me.
Speaker 1: I think it's that. I think it's that it's like,
Speaker 1: you know that archway and he sort of appears from
Speaker 1: one side of it and crosses to the other side
Speaker 1: of it very quickly. It's just quite comical to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then we have that shot with all the personalities
Speaker 1: sort of gathered around his body.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Apparently they originally had it so that they all walked
Speaker 1: in one by one and stood there, right, But that
Speaker 1: was just clunky, right, so they just yeah, cut it
Speaker 1: to that just one shot, which is better, I think.
Speaker 2: So yeah.
Speaker 1: Interesting that also the way they've got them arranged, they
Speaker 1: kind of all look the same height, which is a
Speaker 1: nice touch.
Speaker 2: And then they all fade away because I guess in
Speaker 2: a way their job's done. Like she can maybe move
Speaker 2: on at this point, or that's the hint that she
Speaker 2: maybe can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, actually I haven't thought about that.
Speaker 2: At which point, she's like, can the murder a police
Speaker 2: stay to help me get rid of the body?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah? Because okay, so this house that this has
Speaker 1: taken place in, that really is Nadia's house where she
Speaker 1: lives with her husband and daughter.
Speaker 2: I seem so yeah, So yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: What's life like for them with the mother who's going
Speaker 1: into these different personalities. Why is she not in some
Speaker 1: sort of institution?
Speaker 2: Well maybe for all we know, like it could be like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, the husband has left that the dought's
Speaker 2: been taken into care, she is in a mental institution
Speaker 2: and like she's just imagining it.
Speaker 1: Or who knows what, like oh maybe, yeah.
Speaker 2: None of this might have happened. She might just be
Speaker 2: tied to a bed somewhere talking to herself for all
Speaker 2: we know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then, as I always say, like that, we
Speaker 1: would have been shown that as well. Maybe yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: But the husband could be like talking to psychologists and
Speaker 2: all sorts for all. Yeah, yeah, he's going through a
Speaker 2: whole other episode.
Speaker 1: Mm hm. So I mean there's lots to like about it,
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, it just it's a bit disappointing and
Speaker 1: clunky the way it sort of gets over explained at
Speaker 1: the end, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's just it's just hammers it too far home.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: We already figured it out, even if even if you
Speaker 2: didn't figure it out at that point, like you didn't
Speaker 2: need that many explanations for it. No, it's not a
Speaker 2: particularly original idea anyway. No, No, I think they do
Speaker 2: them a lot better in other episodes.
Speaker 1: I mean, I wonder if this might have worked better
Speaker 1: if it had been a longer, Like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: the longest episode of TV or even a film.
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know if you could have sustained it,
Speaker 2: though I didn't see why not. I mean, I mean
Speaker 2: sustain it where you don't know what's going one keep
Speaker 2: the resolution hidden for longer. I don't know. That is
Speaker 2: the bonus of their twenty nine and a half minutes,
Speaker 2: that even if the resolution is obvious, you can maybe
Speaker 2: hide it for twenty for half an hour, but for
Speaker 2: an hour and a half two hours is much harder. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so rating rating, mm, I've enjoyed it more discussing it
Speaker 2: with you, I think it wasn't one that I particularly
Speaker 2: remembered that fondly. I think I'm thinking of five. Oh, okay,
Speaker 2: I think how about you?
Speaker 1: Well, I was torn between her three and a four. Okay,
Speaker 1: again looking at what I've given other things and trying
Speaker 1: to slot it in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I'm a bit generous, I think. No, I
Speaker 2: think I'm going to go four four.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I thought five was a bit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I'm saying a three, not to say I
Speaker 1: didn't like it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we enjoy all of them exactly. There's a
Speaker 2: couple that we don't. But barring a couple even the
Speaker 2: lowest ones are still good exactly.
Speaker 1: I'm looking at film saying a three. I'm looking at
Speaker 1: other threes, which I gave last gasp in the understudy.
Speaker 1: I think that feels like a similar level.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sounds good.
Speaker 1: They're not bad, not the worst, just could have been better.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So do you spot the hair this week?
Speaker 1: I did? Well, it was It was kind of blurry,
Speaker 1: but it was I saw it on Angel's shelves behind her.
Speaker 2: And did you spot the other hair?
Speaker 1: There's another hair?
Speaker 2: There is indeed, Okay, you can sort of see it
Speaker 2: to the right of Nadia. It's like hidden behind a
Speaker 2: plant pop. You just see sort of its ears and
Speaker 2: it's ok. And did you see the other hair?
Speaker 1: Oh no, there's another one? Is there one in every single?
Speaker 2: Not quite? There is another one that you can sort
Speaker 2: of see in Aiden's second video. It's with all of
Speaker 2: his pills and stuff. Oh okay, there isn't one in
Speaker 2: Galen's because I think it's just been impossible obviously for
Speaker 2: Diana as well. It would be really hard, but it
Speaker 2: just makes sense for Bills because he's not the same person.
Speaker 2: So the whole their whole point was that they wanted
Speaker 2: bits of it to be visible in each of them.
Speaker 1: Oh that's clever.
Speaker 2: And Galen and Angel are sort of the same flips
Speaker 2: of them, so you can sort of say that it's
Speaker 2: in Galen's because it's in Angels and he appears in
Speaker 2: the one with Angel.
Speaker 1: Yeah that makes sense.
Speaker 2: And Diana's kind of a bit of a smaller role anyway,
Speaker 2: so I guess, yeah, yeah, you can get away with it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you never see it in in full. You
Speaker 2: see bits of it in the same way that you
Speaker 2: see bits of them. Should I quite like cool?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well there we go. I thought, I thought I've
Speaker 1: done a good thing and spotted it, but and he
Speaker 1: spotted one out of three.
Speaker 2: I spotted the the one with Nadia, and then later
Speaker 2: spotted the Angel one, and I was like, oh, I
Speaker 2: wonder if they're everywhere. I didn't see the Reach one,
Speaker 2: but from a Google said that was the only one
Speaker 2: I was missing.
Speaker 1: Well there we go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so see if you can spot our hair in
Speaker 2: this episode as well for yours.
Speaker 1: Indeed, we will let you know where it was next week. Yes, indeed,
Speaker 1: we're coming towards the end. But it's time to read
Speaker 1: out another message.
Speaker 2: Ah.
Speaker 1: So this one came in from Memet on YouTube. He says,
Speaker 1: listening from Turkey, the work you do and your insights
Speaker 1: are so so valuable for the future of this series
Speaker 1: and forgetting it the attention it deserves. I'm really glad
Speaker 1: to be a follower of yours from Turkey. I look
Speaker 1: forward to enjoying the rest of the episodes.
Speaker 2: Ah, we have international fans, we do apparently. Oh thanks, mamittte.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's really sweet, isn't it that because we
Speaker 1: always say that, well, you particularly say that the series
Speaker 1: doesn't get the recognition it deserves.
Speaker 2: I don't think it does. No, I think it gets
Speaker 2: a lot of recognition, but oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it should have more. Yeah, So to be
Speaker 1: a small part of trying to boost that, yeah is good.
Speaker 2: Like I feel everyone knows Black Mirror, for example, but
Speaker 2: the amount of people I tell about this that they've
Speaker 2: never heard of it before, I feel they should be
Speaker 2: on a similar level.
Speaker 1: Mmm.
Speaker 2: So oh that was lovely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, mamette.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1: It's the last episode of the series next week.
Speaker 2: It is. It's one of my favorites as well. Okay,
Speaker 2: excited for this one.
Speaker 1: Good, good, good, And we'll have a little quiz as well.
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, every series. I started with good intentions of
Speaker 2: when I in my notes, I write.
Speaker 1: Write the question each week.
Speaker 2: Yes, we ever do it on week one and two
Speaker 2: at best forget by the end. Okay, but we will
Speaker 2: be back for episode six, the stakeout next week.
Speaker 1: We will be until then. I think it's time to
Speaker 1: close the door on number nine.
Speaker 2: But you never leave, do you.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Ninth Degree. If you'd like
Speaker 1: to get in touch, you can find us on Instagram, Twitter,
Speaker 1: and TikTok at ninth Degree Pod, or email us at
Speaker 1: ninth agree Pod at gmail dot com. You can also
Speaker 1: leave us a rating or a review wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts.
Speaker 2: M