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Speaker 4: Plus You are now listening to True Murder, The most
Speaker 4: shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that
Speaker 4: have written about them. Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK.
Speaker 4: Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking
Speaker 4: and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with
Speaker 4: your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski.
Speaker 3: Good Evening, a shocking expose of the deadliest killing spree
Speaker 3: in Canadian history and how police tragically failed its victims
Speaker 3: and survivors. As news broke of a killer rampaging across
Speaker 3: the tiny community of Porta Peak, Nova Scotia late on
Speaker 3: April eighteenth, twenty twenty, details were oddly hard to come by.
Speaker 3: Who was the killer, why was he not apprehended, what
Speaker 3: were police doing? How many were dead? And why was
Speaker 3: the gunman still on the loose the next morning and
Speaker 3: killing again. The RCMP was largely silent then and continued
Speaker 3: to obscure the actions of Denturis Gabriel Wartman after an
Speaker 3: officer's shot and killed them at a gas station during
Speaker 3: a chance encounter. Though retired as an investigative journalist and author,
Speaker 3: Paul Plango spent much of his career reporting on Canada's
Speaker 3: troubled National Police Force. Watching the RCMP stumble through the
Speaker 3: Porta Peak massacre only a few hours from his Nova
Speaker 3: Scotia home, Plango knew the story behind the headlines was
Speaker 3: more complicated and damning than anyone was willing to admit.
Speaker 3: With the COVID nineteen lockdown sealing off the Maritimes, no
Speaker 3: journalists in the province knew the RCMP better than Polango did.
Speaker 3: Within a month, he was back in print and on
Speaker 3: the radio, peeling away the layers of this murderous episode
Speaker 3: as only he could, and unearthing the collision of failure
Speaker 3: and malfeasance that cost a quiet community twenty two innocent lives.
Speaker 3: The book that we're featuring this evening is twenty two Murders,
Speaker 3: Investigating the Massacres, cover Up and Obstacles to Justice and
Speaker 3: Nova Scotia Part two with my special guest, investigative author
Speaker 3: and journalist Paul Polango. Welcome back to the program and
Speaker 3: thank you for this interview. Paul Polango, Thank you, Dan,
Speaker 3: good to be back. Thank you so much. People are
Speaker 3: highly anticipating this part two of this incredible I know
Speaker 3: I over use that word, but incredible story and remarkable book.
Speaker 3: Let's get to where we were last time. We were
Speaker 3: talking about your ongoing investigation and your use of media
Speaker 3: anywhere you could, podcasts and radio. Talked about Rick how
Speaker 3: radio show and your ability and your willingness to resort
Speaker 3: to controversy and ask some hard questions to get some
Speaker 3: people to come forward. Now, we hadn't mentioned somebody that's
Speaker 3: instrumental in helping you in this investigation, and that was
Speaker 3: Chad Jones. Tell us a little bit about Chad Jones
Speaker 3: and what some of the investigation that he does leads
Speaker 3: to in terms of a person named Leon Jodre Chad Jones.
Speaker 1: Okay, I came across Chad Jones in an unusual way.
Speaker 1: I was approached by a podcaster called Little Gray Cells,
Speaker 1: who do a YouTube channel. And this is all unfamiliar
Speaker 1: territory to me. You know, I'm an old guy who
Speaker 1: does radio, TV and the computer and I didn't know
Speaker 1: much about podcasts. And Little Gray Cells and their host
Speaker 1: who went by the name Seamus Gorman but whose actual
Speaker 1: name was Paul Ragona had me on and I think
Speaker 1: I was on a couple of times, and there was
Speaker 1: a panel of three on his end. There was him
Speaker 1: a guy named Steve and this other guy called NES
Speaker 1: guy who had sort of a ponytail or his hair
Speaker 1: tied back and a ponytail and added and as we
Speaker 1: chatted in the you know, the one or two times
Speaker 1: that I was there, I think it was two, I
Speaker 1: was really impressed by the questions that NS guy asked
Speaker 1: and his apparent intellect. And at some point we arranged
Speaker 1: to have a private conversation. I told him to call me.
Speaker 1: I had something, and we got talking and I realized
Speaker 1: that now he was the unusual guy. He you know,
Speaker 1: I needed help and I couldn't you know. I started
Speaker 1: out trying to help other journalists with what I could
Speaker 1: I knew and what I could sense about the story,
Speaker 1: and you know, help them with accessing good sources that
Speaker 1: I had inside the r scamp and outside the r scamp,
Speaker 1: and I couldn't get them. So I got Chad and
Speaker 1: I sort of had a meeting of minds, you know,
Speaker 1: we went up to pour a pic together and started
Speaker 1: scouting out the various locations and trying to do timing
Speaker 1: on what the RCMP said they did and what they
Speaker 1: actually did, what the possibilities were, and really we started
Speaker 1: mapping out the story together, and eventually I became to
Speaker 1: call Chad. I had a nickname from artificial intelligence, because
Speaker 1: anytime I had a question, I would just add, you know,
Speaker 1: call Chad up and instantaneously, this thirty three year old
Speaker 1: guy who worked as a distribution manager in Halifax knew
Speaker 1: the answer to everything very quickly. And plus he was
Speaker 1: monitoring what else was what was going on in the
Speaker 1: wider community, in the and in cyberspace.
Speaker 3: Now, tell us about the circumstances in which you get
Speaker 3: to interview this Leon Jodre and what exactly is his
Speaker 3: account and what does he have to say?
Speaker 1: Well, the difficulty in telling this story as I you know,
Speaker 1: as I pointed out in the previous episode, the Prime
Speaker 1: Minister had said, you know, we don't want to glorify
Speaker 1: Gabriel Wortman's infamy, we should not name him. And then
Speaker 1: the Canadian media dutifully went along with that, right across
Speaker 1: the board, a media, mainstream media. So now we had
Speaker 1: the perpetrator, and then we had his common law wife
Speaker 1: of nineteen years, who was never named in print, Like
Speaker 1: getting her name was almost impossible, trying to figure out
Speaker 1: who she was until Frank Magazine, the satire magazine in
Speaker 1: Halifax wrote a piece about her and cleverly described her
Speaker 1: as a hero, just so nobody would come back at
Speaker 1: them and you know, sort of pick up their office
Speaker 1: for outing Lisa Banfield and her name. So they sort
Speaker 1: of did it in a tongue in cheek way, right,
Speaker 1: And I wanted to know more about Lisa Banfield, and
Speaker 1: you know, and as you see in the story, the
Speaker 1: other thing that was going on, my health wasn't so
Speaker 1: good at the time. My wife's health wasn't so good
Speaker 1: at the time, and we had COVID lockdown, so we
Speaker 1: never really left home. You know, at one point in
Speaker 1: Nova Scotia, you weren't even allowed to leave your county.
Speaker 1: And eventually a sunny day came and Chad and I said, okay,
Speaker 1: let's go. He says, you got im meet Leon Jodry
Speaker 1: and he arranged there because on his own, as a
Speaker 1: citizen investigator, he was identifying other people because there's so
Speaker 1: many people in this story partition. There's twenty two victims,
Speaker 1: and there's the police, and there's the politicians. There's so
Speaker 1: many angles to go that, you know, you can tie
Speaker 1: up a lot of a newser of just following all
Speaker 1: the angles. So there was just the two of us
Speaker 1: at this point, and we said, okay, well let's drive
Speaker 1: up to portapec And it was like a two hour
Speaker 1: drive and we got there and we met Leon at
Speaker 1: a restaurant I think it called the C and C.
Speaker 1: And as I joke about it, Chad used to call
Speaker 1: it the Chewin' choke as a joke. R you know,
Speaker 1: like a typical thing they do in rural communities, you know,
Speaker 1: which wasn't fair with the food was pretty good. And
Speaker 1: we met Leon and then he took us on his
Speaker 1: version of the story, which was very compelling.
Speaker 3: Well, you're right, that's what with the narrative from police,
Speaker 3: from the rs MP was that they hadn't been in
Speaker 3: contact with her at all till six thirty in the
Speaker 3: morning when she came out of the woods. Leon was
Speaker 3: telling you that she came to his cabin.
Speaker 1: It's not a cabin, it's a house.
Speaker 3: Okay, it's a house. But the narrative was totally contradictory
Speaker 3: to what she had said and what the RCMP had
Speaker 3: said and what the media had reported. So tell us
Speaker 3: the difference, the vast difference.
Speaker 1: Well, the RCMP narrative is this woman was beaten, drag
Speaker 1: kick shot at you know, forced to watch her. The
Speaker 1: cottage burned down, the warehouse burned down. She tied up
Speaker 1: handcuffed in the back of a decommissioned police car, crawled
Speaker 1: through the silent patrolman that separates the front and back seat,
Speaker 1: escaped into the bush and hit out for eight and
Speaker 1: a half hours, dressed in yoga pants and a spandex top.
Speaker 1: She had no jacket, no gloves, no boots, And they
Speaker 1: said she arrived at you know for six thirty, came
Speaker 1: out of the woods just as the RCMP was going home.
Speaker 1: The old RCMP officers went home at six thirty because
Speaker 1: they presumed so. They said that we're been committed suicide.
Speaker 1: And right around this time she comes out of the
Speaker 1: woods and goes to Leon Jodrey's house. The RCMP goes
Speaker 1: rescue her, take her to the hospital, and then everything
Speaker 1: really goes silent. You don't know anything really about Lisa Banfield.
Speaker 1: And so we went and saw Wortman, and that where
Speaker 1: we went and saw Leon Jodriy, and his version of
Speaker 1: the story was somewhat different. Leon is one of the
Speaker 1: few people who survive this onslaught Porto Park remember thirteen
Speaker 1: people are killed. At the time, there might have been
Speaker 1: probably eighteen to twenty people residing in houses at that
Speaker 1: time of the year as far as seasonal community. So
Speaker 1: most of the people that were wiped out by warpman.
Speaker 1: And the night before, Leon who was you know, he
Speaker 1: worked in the forest. He worked for the provincial Department
Speaker 1: of Natural Resources. He did a lot of forestry work.
Speaker 1: Strong guy. His neighbors Jamie and Greg Blair, were cleaning
Speaker 1: up their property for you know, the spring clean up
Speaker 1: and cutting out some bush and him and Leon and
Speaker 1: another guy helped them that day taking bush down to
Speaker 1: the beach because once a year, a couple of times
Speaker 1: a year, they'd have a giant bonfire down there, a
Speaker 1: big party in the neighborhood with his giant fire on
Speaker 1: the waters of the Bay of Fundy, right, And then
Speaker 1: they went back to Jamie and Greg's house, had dinner
Speaker 1: at around nine o'clock. He went home because he's a
Speaker 1: early to bed, early to rise kind of guy. In
Speaker 1: the middle of the night, he said, he remembers exactly
Speaker 1: at three point thirty three am, he remember smelling smoke
Speaker 1: and he said the smoke was not wood burning, it
Speaker 1: was something else, and so he was quite alarmed by it.
Speaker 1: And after he thought about it, he got in his
Speaker 1: truck and he roared around the neighborhood in the dark,
Speaker 1: and there were no police there. And eventually he goes
Speaker 1: about a kilometer and a half almost a mile from
Speaker 1: his place to Gabriel Wortman's cottage at two hundred quart
Speaker 1: Pit Beach Road, and there's a police armored vehicle sitting
Speaker 1: there and the properties and cinder and the police just
Speaker 1: tell him to turn around and go back and get
Speaker 1: out of there, which is kind of odd because they
Speaker 1: still hadn't found workman. They how do they know it
Speaker 1: wasn't work How do they just set him away? So
Speaker 1: he roared around the other way up to the intersection
Speaker 1: down Orchard Beach Drive, went past Greg Blair's house. He
Speaker 1: saw it wasn't on fire. It was only four o'clock
Speaker 1: in the morning. He wasn't going to go in there,
Speaker 1: drove down a little farther, turned around, came up. Didn't
Speaker 1: notice that he had driven past two bodies lying by
Speaker 1: the side of the road, you know, Corey Ellison on
Speaker 1: one side, Leon's old girlfriend Lisa McCully on the other side.
Speaker 1: Behind the fence, drives back to his place, starts texting
Speaker 1: and trying to find out what's going on in his neighborhood,
Speaker 1: makes himself a coffee. At six point thirty, you know,
Speaker 1: the sun's coming up. There's a knock at the door
Speaker 1: and it's Lisa Banfield and he says, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: what are you doing here? You know, Gabriel doesn't like me.
Speaker 1: And Li says, oh, I'll leave, and she turned around
Speaker 1: to leave, and Wortman said, no, no, no, you can't go.
Speaker 1: You know. She said, Gabriel's gone crazy. And he brought
Speaker 1: her into the house and right away he said he
Speaker 1: noticed her makeup was perfect, and she said she had
Speaker 1: these skippy clothes on. And she said she'd been out
Speaker 1: all night in the woods and it was zero degrees celsius,
Speaker 1: which is thirty two degrees fahrenheit that night, and cold
Speaker 1: because it's a windy, windy place there. You know, the
Speaker 1: Bay of Fundi has the highest tides of the world.
Speaker 1: You imagine, you can imagine the wind right beside their
Speaker 1: all constant. So he called nine one one and got
Speaker 1: the operator, told him what was going on. I have
Speaker 1: Gabriel Wortman's girlfriend here, Da Da da DA and within
Speaker 1: three minutes swat team members where there are er team
Speaker 1: members for the RCMP. They you know, Leon gave her
Speaker 1: some shoes to wear, something to cover up a blanket.
Speaker 1: The police took her away, and they basically didn't search
Speaker 1: his house, didn't search his property. He said their behavior
Speaker 1: was really really strange in his opinion, and from the outside,
Speaker 1: he said, I don't believe her story, you know. He said,
Speaker 1: she didn't smell of gasoline, she didn't look like she'd
Speaker 1: been in the woods. This is a guy who knows
Speaker 1: the woods there and if you look at the woods,
Speaker 1: they're almost impossible to travel. The roads are gravel. Walking
Speaker 1: barefoot around the woods for eight and a half hours,
Speaker 1: I mean, Lisa said at one point she hid in
Speaker 1: a tree stump, and I thought, what is this like
Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings and lead you all without the
Speaker 1: same thing. So he wanted to tell his story, and
Speaker 1: he would tell everyone history, and it was very convincing.
Speaker 1: He's the kind of guy who looks you in the
Speaker 1: eye and tells you the story. But nobody wanted to
Speaker 1: hear his story, so the media would never report Leon's
Speaker 1: version of events. They'll talk about Lisa Banfield going to
Speaker 1: his house, but never that Leon thought didn't believe her story.
Speaker 1: And as I started to examine this story and eventually
Speaker 1: started reporting on it, others would be reporting on the
Speaker 1: story like Global News for example, did a podcast thirteen
Speaker 1: and a half hours, CBC did stories on it, other
Speaker 1: reporters did story and all they would do is report
Speaker 1: the version of the story that Lisa Banfield told to
Speaker 1: the police. And the RCMP would tell this story and
Speaker 1: when they were confronted by why did they use Leon
Speaker 1: Jogeres's story, Global News for example, on two occasions said well,
Speaker 1: his version of events doesn't fit the police version of events.
Speaker 1: And that's the kind of reporter were we're getting. There
Speaker 1: was no skepticism, no suspension of disbelief about the RCMP story,
Speaker 1: even though there were obvious holes in it, and when
Speaker 1: you could prove that there was something wrong with the story,
Speaker 1: other reporters were just ignore it. Where they're going to
Speaker 1: stick to the narrative that the police had given them.
Speaker 1: And that sort of forced me forward into telling digging
Speaker 1: deeper and starting to come up with the idea I
Speaker 1: was going to have to write a book there, because
Speaker 1: no one is going to listen to the to the
Speaker 1: real story.
Speaker 3: What we didn't mention too, is that part of her
Speaker 3: story was that she had been handcuffed in the back
Speaker 3: of one of these police cars and then she had escaped.
Speaker 4: What was his.
Speaker 3: Observance and regarded the handcuff, Well.
Speaker 1: He saw no handcuffs. There were no handcuffs, you know.
Speaker 1: I think she may have said, oh, I slipped out
Speaker 1: of the handcuffs. But in later as I did the
Speaker 1: investigation and met other people who were in the community,
Speaker 1: including one woman, Cindy Sterrett, who is sort of one
Speaker 1: of Wortman's regular girlfriends up there, and she had worked
Speaker 1: at an adult shop and had gifted some S and
Speaker 1: M type handcuffs, bondage handcuffs to workmen and along with
Speaker 1: other toys, and those handcuffs had a safety button on
Speaker 1: a release button that you could take off. So the
Speaker 1: question became, was she really handcuffed or what were these
Speaker 1: S and M handcuffs part of the show. But we
Speaker 1: still don't have an answer to that. Two years down
Speaker 1: the road.
Speaker 3: When you talk about the narrative that the police had
Speaker 3: tell us about this, you know, prelude to kidnap to
Speaker 3: the killings itself, and this was supposed to be their anniversary,
Speaker 3: their nineteenth anniversary this night, so they drove around a
Speaker 3: course to her, what did they do on this drive?
Speaker 1: According to her, on that day they had a criminal
Speaker 1: who we may or may not get to here, Peter
Speaker 1: Griffin working you know, who has spent time in jail
Speaker 1: for drug trafficking. Had associations with the laugh Familia cartel
Speaker 1: in Mexico and MS thirteen and the Hells Angels. He
Speaker 1: was their yard boy and he was recently off He
Speaker 1: was on parole or just off parole for a previous conviction.
Speaker 1: They went for a ride around sort of northern Nova Scotia.
Speaker 1: According to Banfield that they visited a few places that
Speaker 1: subsequently Workman would return to the next day and kill
Speaker 1: some people. But they also went to spring Hill where
Speaker 1: there's a prison, a federal prison, and he gifted some
Speaker 1: of his dentist equipment to another dentriss there, saying he
Speaker 1: was getting out of the business. They drove by another
Speaker 1: dentrous cottage. Her name was Gina Golay, who turned out
Speaker 1: to be his last victim, and Lisa Banfield told the
Speaker 1: police she didn't know how Workman knew where Gulay's place was.
Speaker 1: It's interesting to note that when the police first told
Speaker 1: this story, they didn't have the cottage in the story.
Speaker 1: They led people to believe that he had driven by
Speaker 1: Gina Galay's house, which was about almost an hour's drive
Speaker 1: in the other direction for its Halifax, and so it
Speaker 1: was all sort of vague, and the story was portrayed
Speaker 1: as he was driving around, was driving around, staking out places.
Speaker 1: But along the way he went to the prison and
Speaker 1: they looked at the prison and he told Lisa, I'm
Speaker 1: never going in there, which suggests there was something going
Speaker 1: in in his mind that either he was under investigation
Speaker 1: or something was going on to make him fear going
Speaker 1: into the prison. His uncle had been in prison, and
Speaker 1: meanwhile he had three other relatives who were our CFP police.
Speaker 1: So he was in this lotus of this in between world,
Speaker 1: and there was obviously things on his mind. You know,
Speaker 1: he was depressed. Friends said he was drinking a lot
Speaker 1: again and he was concerned about going to jail. They
Speaker 1: returned home around five o'clock that night, and then they
Speaker 1: went and apparently went over to the warehouse, which is
Speaker 1: about four hundred meters walk through the woods. And we're
Speaker 1: having a virtual party. This is the police story with
Speaker 1: a couple in Maine and someone said about a recommit
Speaker 1: you know, said they should have a recommitment ceremony the
Speaker 1: next year. And apparently this led to a fight between
Speaker 1: Workmen and Lisa Banfield, and then the events happened, the
Speaker 1: murders began to happen. That's the official story to me.
Speaker 1: It didn't pass the smell test.
Speaker 3: Before we talk about your further investigation, Let's people are
Speaker 3: familiar with Peter Griffin, but only in this limited way,
Speaker 3: and that he was responsible supposedly for the decal on
Speaker 3: the police car, on the replica car, the manufacturing of that.
Speaker 3: Can you tell us about that.
Speaker 1: Well, Peter Griffin, he is asidd this character who I
Speaker 1: sort of I identified in the summer of twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: His name had not been in the press and the
Speaker 1: RCMP hadn't released it. They said that the person who
Speaker 1: put the the decals on the police car they dressed
Speaker 1: up a fully functional looking police car, wasn't going to
Speaker 1: be charged and they were innocent victims. And I started
Speaker 1: to look. I heard rumors from various sources about this
Speaker 1: drinking group that Workman had of the Friday night Friday
Speaker 1: Afternoon club and they said there were some heavy dudes
Speaker 1: there that what I was told in other people, and
Speaker 1: I eventually figured out that one of the people was
Speaker 1: Peter Allen Griffin, and he had been arrested in Edmonton
Speaker 1: back in twenty and fourteen or so with heavy duty
Speaker 1: drug smuggling weapons and with links, as I said to
Speaker 1: left Familia MS thirteen and his own grandmother was in
Speaker 1: you know, associates with the Hell's Angels, and there were
Speaker 1: family friends, the two brothers named the Mercero Brothers, especially
Speaker 1: Randy Mercero. So this is a sort of this you
Speaker 1: start getting into the biker world that exists in an
Speaker 1: organized crime world in Colchester, with all these relationships that
Speaker 1: are very close to Workman and the activities he was
Speaker 1: involved in.
Speaker 3: Another breakthrough you talk about that was very important in
Speaker 3: this as your further investigation was a person named Laura Graham.
Speaker 3: What do you learn as a result of what she
Speaker 3: tells you? Laura Graham, you have to.
Speaker 1: Understand that, Okay, we're now like nine months down the road.
Speaker 1: The RCMP is refusing to release any real documents about
Speaker 1: what happened. They're making the media fight to get at
Speaker 1: what are called informations to obtain search warrants, and they're
Speaker 1: heavily redacted, so it's almost impossible to figure out what
Speaker 1: is going on what they did. They're not identifying any
Speaker 1: officers who were at the scene. They contended that they
Speaker 1: were working on a major investigation, which I knew was
Speaker 1: a cover because that's usually what they do. They shut
Speaker 1: all kind of discussion down saying they're working on an investigation,
Speaker 1: and no investigation ever happens. Because the RCMPS, as I
Speaker 1: showed in my previous books, was really good at building
Speaker 1: files but not building cases, so I'm suspicious to them
Speaker 1: doing that. And I eventually did a story that begins
Speaker 1: this sort of sequence, this tumbling sequence, into the deeper story.
Speaker 1: So first of all, I write up a new sort
Speaker 1: of timeline from what was happening based on new information
Speaker 1: I had, but I couldn't get anyone to publish it,
Speaker 1: and it was like frustrating as hell trying to get
Speaker 1: it published. Nobody would it's too long, it's too local.
Speaker 1: Well we've already done this, We've already plowed this field,
Speaker 1: you know, why would we do it again? And it
Speaker 1: wasn't It was it was like elaborating on and I
Speaker 1: felt that the story would open up new So anyway,
Speaker 1: I finally got the story published in Frank magazine, made
Speaker 1: a deal with them and I said, look, I'll do Frank.
Speaker 1: I'll do this for Frank, but you can't sort of
Speaker 1: make my sort of voice cheeky and satirical. I'm going
Speaker 1: to do straight reporting with some sort of analysis in
Speaker 1: every story. So Andrew Douglas, the editor, said go ahead
Speaker 1: and do us. We did it, and that attracted the
Speaker 1: attention of Jordan Bonaparte, who works in the insurance industry
Speaker 1: but does a podcast out of Halifax and then on
Speaker 1: the Global Network that Jordan had me on one Sunday night.
Speaker 1: And then it was like eleven thirty and I was
Speaker 1: falling asleep recounting this story. I was trying to stay awake.
Speaker 1: It was really I had had a long day. Then
Speaker 1: lo and behold, I get a message just before Christmas
Speaker 1: twenty twenty saying I heard you on Jordan and what
Speaker 1: you were talking about nine months earlier. I remember that
Speaker 1: night my husband was snoring and I woke up and
Speaker 1: I do this crazy thing. I have a scanner app
Speaker 1: on my phone and I look around for where the
Speaker 1: most activity is and that night it was in Pecto County,
Speaker 1: Nova Scotia, which is sort of sixty miles you know,
Speaker 1: ninety Kilombia. So now we're drive northeast of Portapec, more
Speaker 1: east of Portapec. I thought to myself, why would they
Speaker 1: be in Pecto County, Nova Stitt, Why would they they
Speaker 1: be using the radio there. So anyway, it took about
Speaker 1: ten days for me to get Laura on side, and
Speaker 1: then she finally showed me the scanner RAPP and what
Speaker 1: she'd done and came forward. So she lived in Orangeville, Ontario,
Speaker 1: which is outside of Toronto, about forty minute drive northwest
Speaker 1: of Toronto, just you know, northwest of the airport in Toronto,
Speaker 1: and she heard this. She was embarrassed about going on,
Speaker 1: you know, being identified. She didn't want people to know
Speaker 1: that she listened to a scanner app. But she was
Speaker 1: really concerned because she had heard policemen wandering around in
Speaker 1: the dark, finding bodies, not knowing where they are, getting
Speaker 1: GPS locations to identify where the bodies are, about a
Speaker 1: man hiding in the woods, and this whole sort of
Speaker 1: chaotic situation going on. This is nine months later she
Speaker 1: made and I'd say, well, what time was that she said, well,
Speaker 1: it was like two o'clock. And I said, well, how
Speaker 1: do you know it was two o'clock. It's just because
Speaker 1: I remember I woke up at this time in that time,
Speaker 1: and this is what happened. I remember looking at the
Speaker 1: clock and I remember this was around two o'clock, which
Speaker 1: means it was around three o'clock in Pecto, Nova Scotia,
Speaker 1: because Nova Scotia is on Atlantic time. So we went.
Speaker 1: So I had to try to find the Pecto County tapes.
Speaker 1: And I had this other citizen investigator named Pete Stevens
Speaker 1: who knew what we seemed to know all this stuff.
Speaker 1: And I said to Pete, you know, I'm looking for
Speaker 1: archives of is anyone does anyone archive these kind of things?
Speaker 1: And he said, I don't know that, but I know
Speaker 1: a guy And twenty minutes said or another citizen investigator says, here,
Speaker 1: here's where you find him. And it was on the US,
Speaker 1: a US channel called Broadcastify. I bought am members shipped
Speaker 1: to Broadcastify, and Chad and I bought memberships, I should say,
Speaker 1: and then we downloaded all of these things, found the tapes,
Speaker 1: and now we could hear what the Mounties were doing
Speaker 1: exactly like Lauris said, at three to zero three am
Speaker 1: two oh three her time, the police found the body
Speaker 1: of Corey Ellison, but then they marked it. They found
Speaker 1: Lisa mccully's body, they marked it. Then they just left
Speaker 1: it there sitting outside. They didn't put an yellow tape around.
Speaker 1: I think they put tarps over them at that point.
Speaker 1: And the bodies were lying there till like at least
Speaker 1: nine thirty in the morning, when other neighbors Judy Myers
Speaker 1: and her husband Doug were evacuated for the community and
Speaker 1: drove up Orchard Beach Drive. The bodies were still lying there.
Speaker 1: There's no tape, no nothing, no police guard. The police
Speaker 1: all went home and left him there. So this was
Speaker 1: an important step in the progress of the story because
Speaker 1: to be able to show this now opened up other doors.
Speaker 1: People began to see that I wasn't just blowing smoke
Speaker 1: about the RCNP and competence and what and raising questions
Speaker 1: about what was going Now I was no longer a
Speaker 1: conspiracy theorist raising questions. I actually had hard facts showing
Speaker 1: there was a problem here. And that became the importance
Speaker 1: of Laura Graham because that opened the doors for other
Speaker 1: people to step forward.
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Speaker 3: Grove dot com slash true Murder. Now, Paul, we were
Speaker 3: talking about this the effect of this nine to eleven
Speaker 3: tapes and the release, and you also find out about
Speaker 3: Peter Griffin being evacuated while other people are still trapped
Speaker 3: in the home of Lisa McCully. So tell us what
Speaker 3: you find out and what is the reaction of this
Speaker 3: release of the nine to one tapes nine on one
Speaker 3: tapes and what does it lead to?
Speaker 1: Well, the first reaction is the typical one that the
Speaker 1: mainstream media wasn't interested in this. I mean one reporter.
Speaker 1: We gave it to reporters. We gave the tapes and
Speaker 1: the access to all reporters, saying here they are. We're
Speaker 1: telling you where they are. Download this before we do
Speaker 1: a story, so that you know, in case they're removed,
Speaker 1: at least you have them. Not one mainstream reporter did
Speaker 1: anything about them. In fact, one reporter when we gave
Speaker 1: them the tape, said, oh, I'm going to my cottage
Speaker 1: on the weekend. Maybe I'll listen to them and see
Speaker 1: if there's anything on them.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: You know, that's how sort of blackadaisical and uninterested they
Speaker 1: were and covering the story. They couldn't see what the
Speaker 1: issue was because the RCMP said they were doing the
Speaker 1: right thing. So that was totally ignorant. But we wrote
Speaker 1: the story and then that opened up all kinds of
Speaker 1: other avenues that we saw the Griffin family to understand
Speaker 1: this the story. On Portapic Beach Road, there's only one house,
Speaker 1: you know, like almost a mile over a mile down
Speaker 1: on the water side, and that was Gabriel Wartman's log
Speaker 1: cabin kept cottage beautiful place on the other side, past
Speaker 1: Wortman's house on the south. On the east side, going
Speaker 1: south towards the water, there was a house owned by
Speaker 1: John Sall and Elizabeth Juwayne Thomas, who had moved in
Speaker 1: there about three years earlier, and the cross street from
Speaker 1: that was the Griffin House owned by Alan and Joanne Griffin,
Speaker 1: Peter's parents, and Peter lived in a shack nearby, and
Speaker 1: that he was staying there at eleven so everything. The
Speaker 1: police arrive at ten twenty six. When they arrived, they
Speaker 1: go down Portapek Beach Road. Three of them go down there.
Speaker 1: Apparently they go down there anyways, I'm not sure I
Speaker 1: believe the story entirely, but they go down there, even
Speaker 1: though the three nine one one calls at ten to one,
Speaker 1: ten sixteen, and ten twenty six came from the parallel
Speaker 1: road Orchard Beach Drive, and there's no interconnection between those
Speaker 1: two other than the at the top of the intersection
Speaker 1: where they intersect and then they run roughly parallel. So
Speaker 1: the police went down there. They scattered around. The Werburn's
Speaker 1: cottage was on fire, and then the Zal's house was
Speaker 1: on fire. We're not clear when they're it's on fire.
Speaker 1: We stole two years down the road. Don't have a
Speaker 1: lot of detail about what happened there, but it was
Speaker 1: right next to the Griffin House, so at the Griffin
Speaker 1: House they could see what was going on from at
Speaker 1: the workman's place, because it was across a little bend
Speaker 1: in the water in the bay there at the mouth
Speaker 1: of the Portapec River. There's a little bend there they
Speaker 1: and it was straight across they could see it, and
Speaker 1: just to the right would be the zallhouse on fire. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: on Orchard Beach Drive we had calls from four kids
Speaker 1: to twelve year olds and two ten year olds, The
Speaker 1: children of Lisa McCully and the Blairs had been murdered
Speaker 1: hiding in a basement, apparently on the phone with while
Speaker 1: they were on the phone beginning at ten sixteen with
Speaker 1: a nine one went operator who was to hear the tapes.
Speaker 1: You can find him on the internet. We got those
Speaker 1: tapes eventually, and they showed these children dealing with what
Speaker 1: could only be described as affeckless nine one went operator
Speaker 1: who was more concerned with the fires than the point
Speaker 1: that one of the children were saying, my daddy's lying
Speaker 1: dead on the front porch. My mom was shot and
Speaker 1: Gabriel Whartman did it, and he's dressed like a policeman.
Speaker 1: He's in a police car and he did all these
Speaker 1: terrible things to my mother. And the ban on operator
Speaker 1: is saying, did you get the license number on the
Speaker 1: car and the twelve round?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: So anyway, these kids are trapped there. But at eleven thirty,
Speaker 1: roughly in that area, between eleven thirty and twelve o'clock,
Speaker 1: the RCMP mounted rescue of the Griffins and escort them
Speaker 1: out of the community before the kids and they're saying,
Speaker 1: well now, they're saying, well, we knew the kids were there,
Speaker 1: we had them protected, and we had a password to
Speaker 1: go get them out. And they eventually get the kids
Speaker 1: out at one o'clock in the morning. The kids were
Speaker 1: there for three hours, trapped in the basement. But the
Speaker 1: RCMP never take command of the situation. So imagine they
Speaker 1: take Griffin, O, why did you take Griffin out? He's
Speaker 1: a criminal? What was the issue with griff So it
Speaker 1: raises questions about is there a relationship between the police
Speaker 1: and Griffin? And after Griffin was evacuated, he disappeared like
Speaker 1: he was taken out to a point his parents met
Speaker 1: with relatives that he disappeared for like a day. We
Speaker 1: don't know what happened to Griff. We don't know what
Speaker 1: he's doing. He has never taught. Meanwhile, the kids are
Speaker 1: trapped in the basement at mccully's house, and we know
Speaker 1: that Lisa McCully is lying dead on the front lawn
Speaker 1: by the rail fence and across the road eighteen meters away,
Speaker 1: you know, like eighteen yards roughly is Corey Ellison lying dead.
Speaker 1: And their bodies are there all night into the morning,
Speaker 1: and we still don't know when the bodies are removed
Speaker 1: on the Sunday. That's how lackadaisical the response was. And
Speaker 1: again raise this questions about what was really going on.
Speaker 3: Now we haven't spoken about this, but obviously this is
Speaker 3: a huge issue. Is the police not containing and believing
Speaker 3: in that somehow he had committed suicide. And that's when
Speaker 3: when we have the police leaving in the morning figuring
Speaker 3: that they'd heard a couple of shots and concluding that
Speaker 3: he had killed himself and hence was no longer a threat.
Speaker 3: So tell us further of your investigation, what you find
Speaker 3: out what actually happened.
Speaker 1: Well, there's there's lots of shots people here during the night.
Speaker 1: I think that it's you know, all its munitions going
Speaker 1: off from the four fires of the new Was there
Speaker 1: four fires? Oh yeah, the four fires in the neighborhood.
Speaker 1: His house, the warehouse, the Galenchion house and this all
Speaker 1: house but Judy Myers and Doug Myers who lived down
Speaker 1: near Cobquid Court where the three Tuck family members are murdered,
Speaker 1: and the Bond family members Deck Star were murdered, Joey
Speaker 1: and Peter Bond. She remembers distinctly hearing shots at eleven
Speaker 1: twenty eight pm because she was just getting ready the
Speaker 1: evening news was local news was almost over and she's
Speaker 1: getting ready to watch The Honeymooners, the old TV show.
Speaker 1: She remembers specifically that happening. Others remember hearing shots later,
Speaker 1: and then the RCNP said, well, we heard one shot
Speaker 1: in the middle of the night, and we assumed that
Speaker 1: he was this kind of killer, and that we were
Speaker 1: he was committing suicide. And they never attempted to find
Speaker 1: the body because part because they didn't have the equipment.
Speaker 1: As we talked about in the previous episode, they didn't
Speaker 1: have any night vision gear. They didn't have a helicopter
Speaker 1: for heat seeking. They didn't have any of these things
Speaker 1: for one reason or the other. So they assumed that
Speaker 1: it's a cold night, it's all died down the fires
Speaker 1: that burned out because they wouldn't let the fire department
Speaker 1: in to fight any of the fires. They wouldn't let
Speaker 1: ambulances in because they didn't know where Workman was, and
Speaker 1: they literally went to sleep. The final point was that
Speaker 1: on the tapes that we were covered on the Picto
Speaker 1: County tapes, what they revealed was the chaos in supervision.
Speaker 1: And at one thirty four in the morning roughly I
Speaker 1: think it's four in the morning, a staff sergeant takes
Speaker 1: over as the incident commander, and the staff sargean at
Speaker 1: Jeffrey West is the head of the traffic division, right,
Speaker 1: That's what he and so he was the guy in
Speaker 1: charge making the calls. The one thing you'd think the
Speaker 1: head of traffic division would know how to do is
Speaker 1: put up roadblocks and stop people, but none of that
Speaker 1: ever happens. So they go home they're convinced he's dad.
Speaker 1: They didn't have a count on the cars how many
Speaker 1: decommissioned police cars Workman had, and they just forgot about
Speaker 1: it until the morning when forty minute drive away in Wentworth,
Speaker 1: another fire breaks. Reports come in around ninety fifteen in
Speaker 1: the morning about a fire and gunshots and weren't have
Speaker 1: been holed up for three hours at the home of
Speaker 1: corrections officers Sean McLeod and Atlanta Jenkins, and he kills
Speaker 1: volunteer firefighter Tom Bagley and then begiins his whole trip down,
Speaker 1: killing people along the way to throw the RCNP off.
Speaker 3: You find that he stays at the McLeod and Jenkins
Speaker 3: resident mysteriously for three and a half hours. Did you
Speaker 3: find out any reasoning for that whatsoever?
Speaker 1: Nobody knows. Like the theory was, ah, well, he went
Speaker 1: there because he knew Sean McLeod had weapons, right and ammunition. Well,
Speaker 1: that sort of throws a wrench in in the monkey
Speaker 1: works of the RCMP narrative, because the RCMP narrative is
Speaker 1: that Wortman was smuggling guns and weapons across the border
Speaker 1: and he was building up this terrible reserve of weapons
Speaker 1: that was going to carry out this long plan to
Speaker 1: assault and kill all of these people. But it appears
Speaker 1: that he ran out of ammunition, So how much did
Speaker 1: he have and he only had a handful of He
Speaker 1: had like a couple of pistols, a rifle, and I
Speaker 1: think another gun, like four or five guns. It's not
Speaker 1: like he was overly armed in the classic sense. Why
Speaker 1: did he go up there? I mean, there have been
Speaker 1: some debate, you know, the McLeod family believes, the Jenkins
Speaker 1: family denies that Atlanta Jenkins was involved in anything or
Speaker 1: that she even knew Wortman, either in a passing way.
Speaker 1: The McLeod family says there was a previous relationship there.
Speaker 1: Others say there was a previous relationship between Jenkins and Wortman,
Speaker 1: and then there are questions about, you know, if we
Speaker 1: was smuggling drugs. This does raise questions about his relationship
Speaker 1: with two corrections officers, one and one in a female prison,
Speaker 1: one in a male federal prison, and why did he
Speaker 1: go there? Like it's nobody really knows. Then the other
Speaker 1: thing that comes out of this. I was just talking
Speaker 1: to Scott McCloud, Sean Mcloud's brother, the other day, and
Speaker 1: he said, I saw the recent photos of the Corrections
Speaker 1: Office question services jacket. They say that Workman took from
Speaker 1: from my brother after he'd killed them, and that he
Speaker 1: had in the car when he was finally shot. He said,
Speaker 1: that's not a question service jacket. It's a blue jacket.
Speaker 1: Our jackets are green. And it looked like it was
Speaker 1: sort of like a home made thing that it wasn't real,
Speaker 1: And that's never really been discussed. You know, the RCMP
Speaker 1: has continued to pass this off as another piece of
Speaker 1: paraphernalia from law enforce but that Werban had gathered. But
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to be an authentic piece, and that's
Speaker 1: never really been addressed.
Speaker 3: Another thing that doesn't fit this narrative of this injustice
Speaker 3: collector necessarily with staying three and a half hours at
Speaker 3: these correctional officers place murdering them was the sexual relationships
Speaker 3: that you discovered that were discovered with Whartman himself. Can
Speaker 3: you tell us about that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that Werbman was a hyper sexual guy. And the
Speaker 1: more you get into it, you start to see that
Speaker 1: there's all like he's this crazy guy who built little
Speaker 1: miniature coffins, even showed one of his clients in Dartmouth
Speaker 1: a big coughin he had built in his back room
Speaker 1: of his denture clinic. He collected motorcycles, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1: But what we learned is that he was always measuring
Speaker 1: men and women for sex. For example, is discussing as
Speaker 1: it seems he'd measure their mouths to see if he
Speaker 1: would fit in. Often basically get involved with some of
Speaker 1: his clients and one of his girlfriends. Crazy things happened
Speaker 1: back in the neighborhood. He had an ongoing relationship with
Speaker 1: Lisa McCully, who had also had a relationship with Leon Jodree.
Speaker 1: In between, he had a relationship with Gita Goley, his
Speaker 1: last victim. He was seen reportedly seen by others police
Speaker 1: law enforcement people in the Caribbean once with Atlanta Jenkins,
Speaker 1: and he was wearing at that time an RCMP T
Speaker 1: shirt or something like that, and it caused one of
Speaker 1: the policemen who were there on vacation saying, oh, approach him,
Speaker 1: Oh you you know you on the job, And they said,
Speaker 1: we just turned around and walked away and never showed
Speaker 1: up again. It wasn't seen for a long time. So
Speaker 1: he had this sort of all this strange stuff going up,
Speaker 1: but he never had problems, it seems with women. There
Speaker 1: were women all over who were happy to be with him,
Speaker 1: which was like he was like crazy, paranoid. He just
Speaker 1: seemed like kind of guy who would who would be
Speaker 1: struggling to do that. But he had a It's clear
Speaker 1: that he had this soft side that appealed to a
Speaker 1: lot of women. Number women said he's fun to talk to,
Speaker 1: and he was this and he was that, and they
Speaker 1: never saw a dark side. So this raises questions too
Speaker 1: about Lisa Bainfield's claims about him being violent all the time,
Speaker 1: because nobody else has come forward and said this. And
Speaker 1: I'm sure there were some domestic violence issues, but it's
Speaker 1: like reading about you know, Johnny Depp and Amber heard,
Speaker 1: you know, there seemed to be some violent accusations of
Speaker 1: violence in that relationship on both sides, and you have
Speaker 1: to wonder if that's the case here, if there was
Speaker 1: some sort of quid pro quo in a very sick relationship.
Speaker 1: So you know, you get into the Injustice Collector and
Speaker 1: things like that, it doesn't really sell that there's something
Speaker 1: else going on here at one point. You know, I
Speaker 1: do speculate in the book he's so hyper sexual, gets
Speaker 1: in people's faces, has no sense of distance. It's almost
Speaker 1: like he's has burgers or something or undetected. Asperger is
Speaker 1: there's something not quite right about him, but he seemed
Speaker 1: harmless to a lot of people, even though he had
Speaker 1: all these violent things going on in the subtext of
Speaker 1: his life.
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Speaker 3: Now let's get to the Mashed Casualty Commission. At first,
Speaker 3: the RCNP do not want to do anything approaching any
Speaker 3: kind of official inquiry. There's a review, but also we'll
Speaker 3: talk about the investigation that you have about in New
Speaker 3: Brunswick and what you discover about Hell's Angels investigations and
Speaker 3: prosecutions in New Brunswick.
Speaker 1: Well, my sources said there's something big here that's bigger
Speaker 1: than the twenty two merders what they were trying to do,
Speaker 1: And I tried to figure out, like what is it?
Speaker 1: So the only thing that sort of made sense was
Speaker 1: Werbman was a police agent, worman or someone close to
Speaker 1: him was a police agent or confidential informent, some sort
Speaker 1: of protected asset. But if he's a protected asset, where
Speaker 1: would where was he working? The RCMP denied that he
Speaker 1: worked for the RCMP, but that was the RCMP in
Speaker 1: Nova Scotia. And I know how the RCMP. Like in
Speaker 1: a previous book, I had a chapter called Shades of Truth,
Speaker 1: how the RCMP tells the story right and they don't
Speaker 1: really tell the truth. In fact, I had someone commented
Speaker 1: on reading the books that who worked with the RCMP
Speaker 1: yesterday told me I read your book and said, did
Speaker 1: you notice that every time something major come up, their
Speaker 1: first response was a lie and then you prove it?
Speaker 1: And I, yeah, I said that that's what I'm glad
Speaker 1: you saw that. So I started to look at this
Speaker 1: issue of undercover operations, So where do they work? Well,
Speaker 1: if they're working not in Nova Scotia. What if he's
Speaker 1: working in New Brunswick. It's only like a thirty five
Speaker 1: to forty minute drive from Port Depict to New Brunswick
Speaker 1: border and Monkedon the major city is right, you know,
Speaker 1: like another thirty minutes away. And when I looked into
Speaker 1: New Brunswick, what I saw, curiously was ten days before
Speaker 1: the rampage began on April eighteen. So in April tenth,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four people were charged. Two of them were
Speaker 1: Hell's Angels, two were from Hell's Angels puppet clubs. And
Speaker 1: in the press release, the RCMP went out of their
Speaker 1: way to talk about two members of the Hell's Angels
Speaker 1: nomads or the elite of the art of the of
Speaker 1: the Hell's Angels. They don't have a club, they wander
Speaker 1: and the two those two guys were Robin Moulton and
Speaker 1: Emery Pittmartin. Then I talked to police sources and they
Speaker 1: kept saying to me there was an informant got some
Speaker 1: informants got blown, their cover got blown or something happened,
Speaker 1: and these informants were killed. And I tried to find this.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no press release like that, no cases
Speaker 1: like that. So I eventually started going through all the
Speaker 1: missing perfect persons and murders in New Brunswick and then
Speaker 1: come up with this court case where the probate judge
Speaker 1: has banned publication of anything going on in this case
Speaker 1: of these two murder victims, Bernard and rose Marie Solnier
Speaker 1: in theep just outside of Moncton. Well, it turns out
Speaker 1: my police sources eventually told me as I investigated this,
Speaker 1: that the Solnier's son, one of their sons, was involved
Speaker 1: with the Hell's Angels and he was running a drug
Speaker 1: operation and they were concerned about it. The parents were
Speaker 1: concerned about it, and according to Mysaurus, reported to the
Speaker 1: RCMP what was going on. A big rate took place
Speaker 1: in August twenty nineteen. On September six, twenty nineteen, charges
Speaker 1: were laid that night the Salonniers were murdered, right and
Speaker 1: horribly murdered. The mister Solnier was really bad. It was
Speaker 1: really bad what happened to him. And then I also
Speaker 1: learned that one of the people who was there had disappeared,
Speaker 1: which raised questions about what happened to him. His name
Speaker 1: was Brady Tompkins. This has never been reported, so I'm
Speaker 1: reporting this for the first time in the book. And
Speaker 1: then Tompkins connection. So we're going in two directions here.
Speaker 1: One is Wermon bragged that he could make bodies disappear
Speaker 1: to people. The RCMP E would report this and some
Speaker 1: of the police documents that he made these assertions. I
Speaker 1: started to wondering who disappeared, so I started looking at
Speaker 1: various people who disappeared. It was Worbman involved that way. Secondly,
Speaker 1: I hear that an RCMP staff sergeant who was involved
Speaker 1: with the undercover operations in your Brunswick committed suicide. His
Speaker 1: name was Bruce Reid. He committed suicide. The RCMP version
Speaker 1: of events was he had personal problems. My sources told
Speaker 1: me that he was distraught about what happened to two
Speaker 1: informants who were killed. Right, And that seemed to be
Speaker 1: the salniest because he operated out of the Hampton sub
Speaker 1: detachment just south of Bunkton, and that was responsible. That
Speaker 1: detachment was responsible for a lot of the undercover operations
Speaker 1: going on in the new Frontal Carrier.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: So with this you make how do you tie Wartman
Speaker 3: to these cases? What is the motive?
Speaker 1: Tell us, Well, he had a background as an undertaker,
Speaker 1: even the rcmp SA, he admitted that he can make
Speaker 1: people disappear. I met a contractor who worked on his
Speaker 1: warehouse property who told me there were strange little fire
Speaker 1: pits all over the property that gave him the creeps
Speaker 1: that it's all part of the mystery. And then there
Speaker 1: was another fellow who went missing in Truro, not far
Speaker 1: away from Quortepec, same thing, who was hooked up with
Speaker 1: biker gangs in the area and went missing right around
Speaker 1: this time. So shortly before workman starts to go off
Speaker 1: the rails, the police put out a refresher on this
Speaker 1: Tony Walsh who went missing, to remind the public that
Speaker 1: you know, he got it last he getting into a
Speaker 1: Ford f one fifty. There's a million Ford f one
Speaker 1: fifties in Canada. Wortman had one two same color. So
Speaker 1: it's just around the edges of this story. It doesn't
Speaker 1: mean anything right now, but all I'm saying is, you know,
Speaker 1: the second part of my book, Dan was the search
Speaker 1: for the truth, and part of the search was for
Speaker 1: the truth was looking at all the various things that
Speaker 1: are going on in the community at this time, and
Speaker 1: there's a lot of creepy stuff going on and Wortman
Speaker 1: is a creepy guy. So it's just raising these questions
Speaker 1: and hopefully we'll get some answers in the future.
Speaker 3: You talk about a curious event that happens at the
Speaker 3: Oslo Fire Department where a EMO officer is is fired
Speaker 3: upon by a couple RCMP, and then those RCMP eventually
Speaker 3: leave the scene, and that what I'm saying is that's
Speaker 3: curious in that it has some relation, it seems to
Speaker 3: the gas station video. And what you claim is it
Speaker 3: seems like that the police had their orders to kill
Speaker 3: rather than arrest Wartman.
Speaker 1: On the Sunday morning of April nineteenth, twenty twenty, Wortman
Speaker 1: came down Highway four after killing McLeod Jenkins, Tom Bagley
Speaker 1: and Lilian Campbell Hisslop, who was walking down the road
Speaker 1: going for a morning constitutional. He pulled over and killed her.
Speaker 1: Then he went down to the house of the Fishers,
Speaker 1: who are sort of friends or acquaintances. We're not sure
Speaker 1: what kind of friends are acquaintances, appears to threatened them leaves.
Speaker 1: He appears to be able to hear what the RCMP
Speaker 1: are doing. The RCMP ert show up around ten in
Speaker 1: the morning and they think they have workman pinned down,
Speaker 1: but he's already escaped and gone over back up highway
Speaker 1: for he'd already passed excuse, he already passed a mount.
Speaker 1: He coming down the mount, he refused to chase him
Speaker 1: because he was afraid. Then he went down planes road,
Speaker 1: killed the VLN nurses Heather, Brian and Kristen Beaton. But
Speaker 1: when he was at the Fisher house, the ERT went
Speaker 1: in there and they asked for what is compromise authority.
Speaker 1: Compromise authority allows them to shoot someone if they're perceived
Speaker 1: to be a danger or their escaping, and does not
Speaker 1: require a superior to sort of assess the situation and
Speaker 1: give the order. So it's a thing used in ERT circles.
Speaker 1: So what we see after the Fisher incident is that
Speaker 1: it appears that the ERT and some people associated with
Speaker 1: the ERT, like the two constables who show up about
Speaker 1: twenty minutes later at the Oslo Belmont fire Hall. They're
Speaker 1: driving east on highway too. It's firstly impossible to see
Speaker 1: the fire hall until you're on top of it because
Speaker 1: of fencing and Bush's speed limits and stuff. The official
Speaker 1: story is we thought we saw workman wearing a safety
Speaker 1: vest Werbon was wearing an orange safety best This EMO
Speaker 1: worker David Westlake was wearing a green safety vest, and
Speaker 1: there was an RCNP car parked behind him, a full
Speaker 1: cruiser with safety cones around him. The two officers said
Speaker 1: they stopped. He shouted out orders. There were no answers.
Speaker 1: They couldn't that the people wouldn't response. They started firing
Speaker 1: at them and these bullets went everywhere, went through the wall.
Speaker 1: I hit a fire truck inside. Corey Ellison's father was
Speaker 1: in there. That was a rescue station, so that the
Speaker 1: RCMP shot up this. They did about forty thousand dollars
Speaker 1: damage and then they got out and they ran. One
Speaker 1: went into the door of the fire hall and said
Speaker 1: everyone okay, yeah, but took off and they headed towards Truro,
Speaker 1: trying to catch up to Werben, who had passed that
Speaker 1: station about twelve minutes before there. When I went and
Speaker 1: investigated it, what the police said couldn't have happened. However,
Speaker 1: the police watchdog si rts seriousness the response team and
Speaker 1: it's leader, director, former Judge Felix katchi On, He issued
Speaker 1: a report saying it was a cleaning thing, it was
Speaker 1: a mistake. They were under stress, and what I saw
Speaker 1: was they shot from far west of where they said
Speaker 1: they were, because they hit the sign to the west
Speaker 1: of the station and caused a lot of damage, destroyed
Speaker 1: the sign. So it suggested they were operating like snipers,
Speaker 1: and that they're still operating under this notion of compromise authority.
Speaker 1: So you have to keep that in mind that now
Speaker 1: they were acting like Steiger's was almost a shoot likely
Speaker 1: a shoot to kill order is that's effectively what it is,
Speaker 1: or how they interpreted. And eventually when they get down
Speaker 1: half an hour later or so more than half an hour, yeah,
Speaker 1: about almost an hour later. Workman continues on, So you
Speaker 1: remember a couple of things have happened here. A police
Speaker 1: officer sees a refuses to turn around and go after
Speaker 1: him because he's not prepared and he's afraid. Then they
Speaker 1: shoot up the Honswi Belmont fire hall. They never issue
Speaker 1: a warning to the town of Truro, which has its
Speaker 1: own police force to block off the town. Weerban drives
Speaker 1: right through there, rip past the hospital where LESA. Banfield is,
Speaker 1: continues south, eventually ends up killing shooting at Constable Chad
Speaker 1: Morriston at Morrison, killing Constable Heidi Stevenson a few hundred
Speaker 1: meters away from there, killing good Samaritan Joey Weber, who
Speaker 1: pulls up at the site, going another kilometer killing Gena Galley,
Speaker 1: eventually finding him his way to Endfield. And when you
Speaker 1: look at the video at Enfield, the cert report said, oh,
Speaker 1: it was a please shoot. All of these things happened.
Speaker 1: There was a confrontation, the two officers had this little
Speaker 1: dance with Werbman before they identified him, and then they
Speaker 1: shot him. Well, we were able to prove with leaked
Speaker 1: tape that didn't happen. That happened at Elmsdale, about six
Speaker 1: to seven minute drive up the road, at another gas station,
Speaker 1: and they fuse these things together. So when you look
Speaker 1: at the tapes of what happened at Enfield, the police
Speaker 1: appeared to pull up, get out and just kill Wortman
Speaker 1: and fire like twenty four shots into him. And they say, oh,
Speaker 1: well he was raising a gun and we had to
Speaker 1: take him out. And people say, yeay, you killed the
Speaker 1: bad guy. But you know, dead men don't talk, So
Speaker 1: it puts the rest of the question, like what was
Speaker 1: really going on and what was Werman's side of the story.
Speaker 1: When I look at the tapes. What I see is
Speaker 1: and not only me, but others have looked at the tapes,
Speaker 1: and it looks like Werman has a white napkin in
Speaker 1: his handling. He's trying to wave the white flag when
Speaker 1: they kill him. The RCMP's final version of story, which
Speaker 1: just came out this week, was well, he was putting
Speaker 1: a gun to his head to commit suicide, which is
Speaker 1: a convenient story because if he committed suicide, that all
Speaker 1: their actions for killing the for shooting him twenty four
Speaker 1: times are moot because while he was already dead, we
Speaker 1: just finished him off. So it's a clever sort of
Speaker 1: a sinister way, depending on your point of view, of
Speaker 1: getting away from any thorough examinations.
Speaker 3: Now we've listened to your conclusions, but we haven't before
Speaker 3: I let you go about this commission and what they
Speaker 3: found and what was their conclusions. And you know, if
Speaker 3: it's still ongoing, it was delayed from the fall to January,
Speaker 3: So tell us the status and what is their conclusions.
Speaker 1: Well, the commission is set up in a way that
Speaker 1: they've adopted restorative justice principles and their Trauma in form,
Speaker 1: which means they don't want to release anything that's going
Speaker 1: to cause anyone in the families to be upset.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: The RCMP Union went before it and asked that all
Speaker 1: the RCMP members be exempted from testifying because they're too
Speaker 1: traumatized by all of this. Sure, this is what's been
Speaker 1: going on that they've let out. There's no real testimony
Speaker 1: in a classical sense. You get people going in. You've
Speaker 1: had a couple of times where Mountis have gone in
Speaker 1: testifying in groups of three and two telling what appear
Speaker 1: to be well rehearsed stories without much cross examination or
Speaker 1: effective cross examination because of time limits to puncture their stories.
Speaker 1: And they have these, you know, emotional hero victim type stories.
Speaker 1: You know, one one guy to hear all the other
Speaker 1: guys a victim. And even the lawyers and the families
Speaker 1: involved are you know. The other day Josh Bryce and
Speaker 1: one of the lawyers representing the Bond family got up
Speaker 1: and said, this is not transparent. This is you're playing
Speaker 1: games here, you know. And you know the Rob Pinot,
Speaker 1: another lawyer who represents most of the family, has said
Speaker 1: the same thing. Observers have said that we had a lawyer,
Speaker 1: a queen's counsel, a senior learn in Halifax wrote a
Speaker 1: piece of the Halifax Chronicle Herald last week, saying that
Speaker 1: it's not transparent. It's a cover up, and that's why
Speaker 1: my book. I wrote my book. I can sense this
Speaker 1: was going to happen, and that's why I boldly say
Speaker 1: in the title it's a cover up, and it's all
Speaker 1: sort of dovetailing in that direction. And people outside other
Speaker 1: than me can now see it. And they're the you know,
Speaker 1: they're they're speaking to the record about this. We're speaking
Speaker 1: on the right.
Speaker 3: For the boss. Absolutely, I don't know. Thank you very
Speaker 3: much Paul Plango for coming on and talking about your book,
Speaker 3: twenty two Murders, Investigating the Massacres cover Up and Obstacles
Speaker 3: to Justice in Nova Scotia. Been an absolute pleasure. Is
Speaker 3: there a website or some way that people might find
Speaker 3: out more about this or contact you.
Speaker 1: They can contact me at Paul Polango at ProtonMail dot com,
Speaker 1: which is an encrypted service. I don't You can just
Speaker 1: have to track me down. I don't have a website yet.
Speaker 1: We may do a website, but you know on Facebook,
Speaker 1: you can find me on Facebook. It's not hard to
Speaker 1: find me. Look either under Polango Dispersing the fog my
Speaker 1: previous book or McNamara Polango. My wife and I together,
Speaker 1: I'll get back here. People find me from everywhere.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. Paul Plango, twenty two murders, investigating
Speaker 3: the massacres, cover up and Obstacles to justice in Nova Scotia.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. You have a great evening. Thank
Speaker 3: you so much for this interview.
Speaker 1: Thank you, good night,