Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to coming Out Pod. It has been
Speaker 1: a little bit of time. I took September off. We
Speaker 1: are back now. October is. I think June is like
Speaker 1: the big month that we get, like, at least in America,
Speaker 1: gay everything. October is I think the second gayest month.
Speaker 1: It is Halloween is is a gay holiday and also
Speaker 1: National coming Out Day in October. In fact, if you
Speaker 1: are listening to this episode the day it is being released,
Speaker 1: Happy National Coming Out Day to you. I always try
Speaker 1: to release an episode on the actual day. So yeah,
Speaker 1: October a very gay month. So okay, queer root shout out.
Speaker 1: I'm actually surprised I haven't done this one yet, but
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure I haven't done this one yet. Shout
Speaker 1: out to you if your queer room is Daphne from
Speaker 1: Scooby Doo. Daphne from the Scooby Gang. I had a
Speaker 1: huge crush on Daphne and the Scooby Gang. The whole
Speaker 1: gang is queer. In my I feel pretty solid on this.
Speaker 1: Fred and Velma definitely gay. Daphne Bye High Pham Bye,
Speaker 1: and then Shaggy ar Oace in a queer platonic relationship
Speaker 1: with Scooby Doo also a great group costume if you're
Speaker 1: looking for like a queer group costume, Scooby Gang, so
Speaker 1: shout out to you if Daphne is your queer root.
Speaker 1: I also picked Daphney kind of thematically because my guest
Speaker 1: today has red hair. I was like, God, I did
Speaker 1: Little Mermaid already. I did Jessica Rabbit, who's left Daphne classic.
Speaker 1: I am here with Catherine McCafferty.
Speaker 2: Hello, Katherine, Hello, Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Catherine is a comedian and the host of Pretty Gay,
Speaker 1: which is we're going to talk about Pretty Gay at
Speaker 1: length later in the episode, but season two of Pretty
Speaker 1: Gay is currently you can watch it on Catherine's Patreon.
Speaker 1: We're going to give all those details at the end.
Speaker 1: I've been watching clips of it all week. It is
Speaker 1: so funny. I really want I definitely want to talk
Speaker 1: to you about I believe you have your your ex
Speaker 1: girlfriend on this season. Correct I's on the teaser. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I definitely want to talk to you about that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: when I got the email, you sent the email being like, hey,
Speaker 1: I'd love to promote season two of it, I saw
Speaker 1: that I was already following you. I had been following
Speaker 1: you for a while just because like you're a funny
Speaker 1: quer a comedian, and I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I know who this is. So I'm very excited to
Speaker 1: talk to you. I know you just got back from
Speaker 1: Edinburgh as well. You did the festival.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I did the Fringe for the whole month. So
Speaker 2: I'm acclimating back to real life. And I don't recommend
Speaker 2: real life. I don't think it's good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you go back after I've been twice
Speaker 1: as like a spectator, but I've never been with a
Speaker 1: show and done like like the most I've been is
Speaker 1: like probably just a weekend, maybe a week So yeah,
Speaker 1: what is what was that? Like?
Speaker 3: It was crazy?
Speaker 2: And I still feel like I'm sort of coming down
Speaker 2: from the high of it all because you're performing every
Speaker 2: single day and I had a one person show.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 2: You know, it was a comedy show, but it also
Speaker 2: like dealt with some hard themes and so doing it
Speaker 2: every day you sort of like have to put your
Speaker 2: emotional like journey on a shelf and then like pick
Speaker 2: it back up and sort of check in with yourself
Speaker 2: at the end of every day and you're just like.
Speaker 3: Going, going, going, going, going.
Speaker 2: And it was it was really emotional. It was really
Speaker 2: amazing and I am definitely going to go back again
Speaker 2: next year.
Speaker 1: God, that's so cool. And is there like there's such
Speaker 1: a party scene at Edinburgh? Is there like a queer contingent?
Speaker 1: Is it like is it like everybody is like we're artists?
Speaker 1: Or is there also like this is the queer party?
Speaker 1: Like what's the vibe there?
Speaker 2: There are some like queer parties that are put on
Speaker 2: by like different uh, different groups. And then there was
Speaker 2: like a group chat with dykes to watch shows with
Speaker 2: and so they had like a few meetups and stuff
Speaker 2: and so you just yeah, it was that was like
Speaker 2: fun and and I was grateful to like know about that,
Speaker 2: which I sort of like got roped in from another
Speaker 2: lesbian who was like, you should be in this group.
Speaker 1: And that's what we do. We recruit even just within
Speaker 1: each other, yeah, pulling into our Yeah.
Speaker 2: But I was I was sort of chatting with somebody
Speaker 2: who uh who was a part who.
Speaker 3: I met at one of the new ups, and she was.
Speaker 2: Like, there is a queer scene in Edinburgh, but because
Speaker 2: it's overrun by like the festival, it sort of like
Speaker 2: goes underground. And we never ended up actually going out
Speaker 2: together because she was like, I'll take you to like
Speaker 2: a club that's like a lesbian club, and we just
Speaker 2: didn't like link up because you.
Speaker 3: Sort of like end up hanging out with a lot
Speaker 3: of performers.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's like everyone's theater kids in some way,
Speaker 1: So that's already kind of queer. Just yes, because it's
Speaker 1: so cool that you did it as a performer. That's
Speaker 1: that's really awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a fun challenge too, to sort of
Speaker 2: be like you're doing an hour of material every single
Speaker 2: day and you pass out flyers too, and you're you
Speaker 2: just feel like so crazy because.
Speaker 3: You're like come to my show and just a pro strangers,
Speaker 3: like total so many.
Speaker 2: Strangers every day with like a little flyer being like please.
Speaker 3: Yeah, please come.
Speaker 1: Humbling but like and also already going out like every
Speaker 1: night and like and drinking and keeping up with like
Speaker 1: UK drinkers like I can't know, okay, okay, okay, no
Speaker 1: person show. That's probably a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would go out like we would all sort
Speaker 2: of go out and maybe get like a.
Speaker 3: Drink or okay, you're walking home, like I'm in a city.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm a lightweight to begin with, I'm like, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to walk home at three am like drunk.
Speaker 1: You know, so smart. I love hearing this from you
Speaker 1: because I feel like people go to Edinburgh and just
Speaker 1: like lose their capability for reason, and like you just
Speaker 1: it sounds like you made really smart decisions. I saw
Speaker 1: that your show got great reviews, like you did it
Speaker 1: a really smart way, so yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we did all go out like one night that
Speaker 2: was sort of like our drunk night where we were like,
Speaker 2: we're gonna go dancing and there was like.
Speaker 3: There's a bar that was open into like five am.
Speaker 2: I ended up walking to the bus stop with another
Speaker 2: comedian that I had met that night and we ended
Speaker 2: up both taking the bus because I couldn't get like
Speaker 2: an uber, I couldn't get.
Speaker 3: Like a car and it was five thirty am. So
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, people are going to work. It's
Speaker 3: like literally totally.
Speaker 1: So okay. I'm glad you went one night of like
Speaker 1: total debauchery, and yes the rest of you were very
Speaker 1: you played it smart. You played it smart, and now
Speaker 1: you're home so okay. How Because we were talking about
Speaker 1: the dykes of watch shows with it, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1: How do you identify?
Speaker 2: Okay, So I do sometimes feel like saying the word
Speaker 2: dyke seems like I'm homophobic, like coming out of my face,
Speaker 2: because I'm not. And I don't know if that's just
Speaker 2: like me judging me because I am like feminine and
Speaker 2: have been with men, So I think that's maybe just
Speaker 2: like a little bit of internalized like whatever, I don't know,
Speaker 2: but also trying not to like co opt a community
Speaker 2: where I'm like, maybe I'm not a part of you,
Speaker 2: you know, but I identify as Catherine she her, and I
Speaker 2: would say, like maybe I'm by curious, but I identify
Speaker 2: as pretty gay. And that is why we named the
Speaker 2: show that, because I was, yeah, because like I'm not
Speaker 2: interested in going out with a man on a date or.
Speaker 3: I'm not really interested in.
Speaker 2: Any of it with somebody who identifies as a man.
Speaker 2: But I have had a couple men in my life
Speaker 2: before I came out who I like really did love,
Speaker 2: and so I just don't feel like I can be
Speaker 2: like I'm a lesbian, you know.
Speaker 1: Okay, Oh that's so nice. That's like in homage to
Speaker 1: them and like what they meant for your life, even
Speaker 1: if currently you're have no interest. That's really love. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: I also give you so much credit. I fucking love
Speaker 1: by curious from the other side of things, because I
Speaker 1: don't I've ever heard of that. That's a really beautiful
Speaker 1: modern interest on by curious.
Speaker 2: That's how I feel though, when like people will be like, well, like,
Speaker 2: would you like kiss a guy?
Speaker 3: And I'm like, yeah, maybe if I'm like.
Speaker 2: Out wrong exactly truly, and I'm like, like, just get my.
Speaker 3: Heart broken, Like right, who's the who's around?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: Does it ultimately get me into a girls you know room?
Speaker 1: It's a really it's a reclaiming. I really like that.
Speaker 1: And then I mean, I asked this question I feel
Speaker 1: like all the time. Well, first of all, does does
Speaker 1: the label or term or whatever does fem like resonate
Speaker 1: to you? Do you ever feel or like because I
Speaker 1: know you said feminine and I never want to like
Speaker 1: put the fem label on anybody, but like, yeah, but
Speaker 1: I'm curious about how you feel about that. And if
Speaker 1: you do, I'm gonna go out on a limb and
Speaker 1: guess that you do. You get assumed straight. Maybe not
Speaker 1: from people in our community, but just like you'll be
Speaker 1: like uber drivers straight people in general.
Speaker 3: Like oh yes.
Speaker 2: I feel like people in the community they are like,
Speaker 2: you're wearing too many rings to be straight, okay. And
Speaker 2: then outside of the community, yeah right, And then outside
Speaker 2: of the community people do I.
Speaker 3: I get assumed as straight.
Speaker 2: A lot, and I actually there's I was in Edinburgh
Speaker 2: and we were chatting with uh, this straight man and
Speaker 2: it was me and my friend Olivia, who is a lesbian,
Speaker 2: and he said something.
Speaker 3: Like, well, you're not that kind of gay.
Speaker 2: To Olivia, like about something else, and I don't remember
Speaker 2: what it was, but then I immediately set him start. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I set him up for failure. And I was like,
Speaker 2: what kind of gay is she? And he was like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, like you know, like you're like sporty, uh
Speaker 2: like sporty mom vibes and we were like, oh no, okay,
Speaker 2: interesting and then I said, and what kind of gay
Speaker 2: am I?
Speaker 3: And he said you're kind of like straight codd and
Speaker 3: I like lost my mind. I was like, I'm straight coated.
Speaker 3: I started like counting my rings. I was like, look
Speaker 3: at how short my nails are, counting my rings. I
Speaker 3: was like, I'm wearing face gens. That's gay. I have
Speaker 3: butterflies on my leather jacket. That I like glued on.
Speaker 3: That's very gay.
Speaker 2: I have straight across bangs and a streak in my
Speaker 2: hair that my ex girlfriend put in there that is gay.
Speaker 1: I was like, god, so mad. Yeah yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I think we as and I mean we like commune.
Speaker 1: Like the culture of like straight gay everybody has progressed,
Speaker 1: especially a straight man using the term coded. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I feel like I know I was picking up some terminology.
Speaker 3: It was you picked up just like the wrong things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's maybe trying or he's like part of
Speaker 1: the way a journey too. But I do still think
Speaker 1: that one thing that like they can't let go of
Speaker 1: is like long hair is O is gonna get you
Speaker 1: assumed straight right off the bat or like bye if
Speaker 1: they're really progressive, but like it's still the hair thing,
Speaker 1: Like it's still and still.
Speaker 2: The people are still sort of assuming like oh you're gay,
Speaker 2: like and I'm I fall into that trap sometimes too,
Speaker 2: where sure like somebody was walking around with, you know,
Speaker 2: a very cool short haircut and I was like, oh wow,
Speaker 2: that's a lesbian and.
Speaker 3: Then and then I was like, nope, not at all.
Speaker 2: And I was like oh wow, okay, so I sort
Speaker 2: of have to check myself.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess we all. The hair thing is like
Speaker 1: that's like the last bastion that we really are just
Speaker 1: attached to all of us. It's turkey, it's turkey. It's
Speaker 1: oh my god. Okay, So we I feel like we've
Speaker 1: we've dipped into some things that I already am like, oh,
Speaker 1: put a pin in that. I want to hear about it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I want to hear your out story what
Speaker 1: that means to you. Uh yeah, because we know, we
Speaker 1: know there were some guys who you loved, and we
Speaker 1: know that there was an eventual coming out and now
Speaker 1: you're pretty gay. So yeah, let's go back to the beginning.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I had like a great first boyfriend in high
Speaker 2: school and he uh he was just like like classic
Speaker 2: first boyfriend, like making out in cars, like so sweet,
Speaker 2: Like we never felt like there was pressure to do
Speaker 2: anything more than that. But I will say that I
Speaker 2: didn't really understand that boys wanted to like touch your body,
Speaker 2: and it was very.
Speaker 3: Like uncomfortable with my body. I know it seems like
Speaker 3: so like duh, like he's.
Speaker 1: Very sweet, but also I mean you're Catholic. Yes, I've
Speaker 1: heard you talk about it. Yeah, and also the name
Speaker 1: Katherine McCafferty. I feel like it's kind of a giveaway.
Speaker 1: So like, how Catholic were you raised? Like how much
Speaker 1: of that is like in your brain making you feel
Speaker 1: guilty about everything?
Speaker 2: I think it's definitely in my brain, and I think
Speaker 2: that it was in also just like the people that
Speaker 2: I was hanging out with were also raised Catholic. So okay,
Speaker 2: it wasn't that my family was super Catholic. My mom
Speaker 2: actually had like a whole like I guess.
Speaker 4: Come to Jesus moment where she was like, I'm not
Speaker 4: Catholic and I don't believe in God and a reverse
Speaker 4: come to g reverse in Jesus moment.
Speaker 1: It's like taking Vicarious and turning out, it's here your
Speaker 1: mom to come to Jesus and actually moved away.
Speaker 2: From and said no, thank you, yeah Jesus in the
Speaker 2: face and said no, not for me. And so my
Speaker 2: parents were divorced. Okay, uh, so we would be with
Speaker 2: my mom more often than my dad, but they did
Speaker 2: have shared custody and we were with my.
Speaker 3: Dad on the weekends and he went to church. So
Speaker 3: we did go to church on.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, gotcha, gotcha? Gotcha? And and how brother's sisters.
Speaker 3: What's the I have an older brother.
Speaker 2: Uh, and we were very close and we're still we're
Speaker 2: still close.
Speaker 1: Okay, lovely. Okay, So you're getting more religion from your
Speaker 1: dad on the we go to church every weekend, but
Speaker 1: your mom is sort of like done with.
Speaker 2: My mom's like trying to be Yeah, my mom's like
Speaker 2: I don't agree with the Catholic church.
Speaker 3: I don't agree with religion.
Speaker 1: God, that's so cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's cool. I have a pretty cool I want to.
Speaker 1: Talk about the videos you've done with her later, because
Speaker 1: like I saw, I couldn't believe it was your mom,
Speaker 1: Like I was like reading the caption and make sure
Speaker 1: because my like the idea of talking about anything even
Speaker 1: remotely in the realm of sex or sexuality with my
Speaker 1: mom like makes me like like I would into plans.
Speaker 1: So I could not believe even though like there's a resemblance,
Speaker 1: Like I knew it was a rob, but I was
Speaker 1: just like, is this really a rob? So your mom
Speaker 1: seems very cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah cool, And she.
Speaker 2: Was always like like she was sex positive. But I
Speaker 2: will say like when I did get my first boyfriend,
Speaker 2: she sort of like got very nervous.
Speaker 3: I think and felt like I was hiding things.
Speaker 2: Because I was I was like, yeah, I'm sixteen, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to tell you things.
Speaker 1: So this is the sweet boy though was when you were.
Speaker 2: So he was really sweet and I'm really lucky that
Speaker 2: like that is how my uh sort of like introduction
Speaker 2: to like kissing and dating. Like I was lucky that
Speaker 2: that's how that started because he was very respectful.
Speaker 3: I was uncomfortable when he would like.
Speaker 2: Touch me, and I just looking back, I'm like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: I was just a poor little baby gay being like
Speaker 2: I don't understand and I didn't.
Speaker 3: I really didn't want to see him naked.
Speaker 2: But then I'm just like I was into Like I
Speaker 2: was totally into him, and so I think the thought
Speaker 2: of them being like maybe I am gay, it just
Speaker 2: didn't like cross my mind. And Okay, I always thought
Speaker 2: that women were attractive. I was always sort of like
Speaker 2: obsessed with like different like TV characters or real live women,
Speaker 2: and I just thought that was really normal. I was like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like the thing that I think we
Speaker 2: all go through, which is like do I want to
Speaker 2: be her or do I want to like be inside
Speaker 2: of her?
Speaker 1: Oh? I like yeah, I was going to say the classic,
Speaker 1: but you you made it a little more graphic, which
Speaker 1: I appreciate that usually do I want to be her
Speaker 1: or be with her, but yeah, that's let's get right.
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know what the second part is,
Speaker 2: and I think it should be that let's be real about.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So so that I was like, you weren't suppressing on
Speaker 1: a conscious level. You weren't like dealing with guilt and
Speaker 1: pushing it down. You were just like, I don't really
Speaker 1: want him to touch me. I don't really want to
Speaker 1: see him naked. But he's really nice and I like him,
Speaker 1: and also girls are pretty, so yeah.
Speaker 2: So it was all and like a mix of like
Speaker 2: like not, there was no clarity. It was sort of
Speaker 2: just like okay, And then things in like my home
Speaker 2: life was it was tough, like growing up, there were
Speaker 2: like people were just dealing with problems. And so I
Speaker 2: went to I dropped out of high school and I
Speaker 2: went to college a year early. Oh wow, and I okay,
Speaker 2: and I did this program where we were all in
Speaker 2: the same dorm because we were all underage, you know,
Speaker 2: and but we were taking all like of the college.
Speaker 3: Classes and that's so cool. It was cool. It wasn't.
Speaker 2: It was in a very remote place, so I was
Speaker 2: pretty isolated. And that school was seventy five percent men.
Speaker 1: Seventy five percent men, okay, And was that just like
Speaker 1: was that I'm not like, did you do that on
Speaker 1: purpose where you're like, let me find a school's majority
Speaker 1: of men or was it just like schools that would
Speaker 1: let people come earlier? Like how did you end up?
Speaker 1: It was okay?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was just because of the program. And here's
Speaker 3: the thing I got waitlisted at, Sarah Lawrence.
Speaker 2: Oh, and I think about like how my life would
Speaker 2: have been like different and had just like gotten into
Speaker 2: because they had a similar program, And.
Speaker 3: I think, like, you know, things would be different. But
Speaker 3: I think sometimes when.
Speaker 2: We go back in time and we were like if
Speaker 2: only we don't also like take into account the fact
Speaker 2: that like it could have been terrible, could have could have.
Speaker 1: You might not have been ready for that yet, like
Speaker 1: as someone who hadn't yet dealt or not dealt because
Speaker 1: it sounds like you weren't repressing, but as someone who
Speaker 1: hadn't realized any of that yet. Sarah Lawrence is like
Speaker 1: fucking baptism by fire like lace is yay? So like
Speaker 1: that might have been too much.
Speaker 3: It might have been yeah, it might have been much,
Speaker 3: might have never come out of the closet.
Speaker 2: But anyway, then I just like sort of had a
Speaker 2: series of like bad boyfriends, and.
Speaker 1: At this end of school you have to yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, like one, I guess and then another one was
Speaker 2: like nice but boring, and.
Speaker 1: You know, which is kind of the biggest crime of all,
Speaker 1: honestly for like a Communian or a performer.
Speaker 2: Interesting, you're giving me nothing that's so mean, but really
Speaker 2: just boring. Like when I would introduce him to people,
Speaker 2: we had a lot of fun, but then I felt
Speaker 2: like she couldn't like keep up like I have like
Speaker 2: a loud family, you know, and we're like we're like
Speaker 2: talking over each other, We're talking about like random things.
Speaker 3: We're like talking talking, talking, talking.
Speaker 2: And I visited his family and I would try to
Speaker 2: ask like questions that were not yes or no questions,
Speaker 2: and his dad and his stepmom would somehow answer in
Speaker 2: the fewest amount of words possible, and I was like,
Speaker 2: what are we doing at this table together? Like this
Speaker 2: is so awkward, Like do you guys just not talk?
Speaker 2: Do you just stare at each other? That's crazy?
Speaker 1: God? Yeah, as a as a podcast host. That is
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the nightmare. Yeah, and you were you
Speaker 1: were in an immersive experience.
Speaker 3: I was like, what are we doing? So anyway, I.
Speaker 1: Do want to ask the being in the twenty five
Speaker 1: percent of women at this school, like was that just
Speaker 1: sort of like like pushing through like people guys being like, hey,
Speaker 1: what's going on? Like was it just like over like
Speaker 1: what was?
Speaker 4: What was?
Speaker 2: It sort of hated us because we were all underage,
Speaker 2: so we weren't eighteen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so no.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so that also comes with like a whole
Speaker 2: gross like aspect where you're like.
Speaker 3: Very much that's what you're thinking about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pretty vile, but at least which I guess
Speaker 1: I should be thankful for in this well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was mostly like they didn't want us
Speaker 2: at their parties in case somebody did something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's like.
Speaker 3: You're just sort of like what uck? Yeah, So that
Speaker 3: was the vibe there. So I transferred out.
Speaker 2: I ended up going to Loyola University Okay, Yeah, which
Speaker 2: is actually where I first met my ex girlfriend.
Speaker 1: This is in Chicago, Loyola in Chicago. Yeah, I went
Speaker 1: to Northwestern. I've walked by your campus off time.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, yeah I've been.
Speaker 2: I've been to Northwestern cool. Yeah, we were in each
Speaker 2: other's campuses.
Speaker 3: Wait love that.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, yeah, I transferred, I got out. I still
Speaker 2: wasn't out of the closet yet though, and I was like.
Speaker 3: Kind of always like dating somebody.
Speaker 1: Were you realizing anything at this point yet? There's still
Speaker 1: hadn't really percolate.
Speaker 2: There was just like a lot going on. There was
Speaker 2: like always just sort of a lot going on. There
Speaker 2: was like family stuff, and then I would date these
Speaker 2: guys who would like there was a lot going on there,
Speaker 2: and so I just feel like I didn't ever check
Speaker 2: in with myself, like not like a single time.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's but the upside is you didn't have
Speaker 1: any like I was saying, like like guilt and shame,
Speaker 1: and you know, there's no I wasn't not realizing. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it wasn't like, oh, you can't be that.
Speaker 2: But then there was a little bit of that when
Speaker 2: I moved to LA there was a little bit of
Speaker 2: me being like, wait a second, because I had kissed girls.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you said the first was the first girlfriend
Speaker 1: not at Loyola.
Speaker 2: Okay, so no, I met my ex girlfriend at Loyola technically,
Speaker 2: but we didn't date until like ten years.
Speaker 3: Later get out. Oh when we met when we met here,
Speaker 3: like again.
Speaker 1: And this is fun, and that she.
Speaker 3: I know that she was out in college, so.
Speaker 1: But you didn't know when you met her that she
Speaker 1: was queer.
Speaker 3: I don't think.
Speaker 2: So okay, we just like watched a movie together with
Speaker 2: other people, so okay.
Speaker 3: It was really not like a true meeting.
Speaker 1: It was not a momentous. It was not a queer
Speaker 1: awakening or a queer root.
Speaker 3: Okay, no, no, yeah.
Speaker 1: So I love this delay of game story.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I just sort of like was like going along
Speaker 2: being like women are beautiful, and I would say things
Speaker 2: I started to like pepper it into when I would
Speaker 2: meet like new people, sort of being like, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I definitely want to date a woman.
Speaker 3: I was like not out yet.
Speaker 2: People had to remind me that I said that, Like
Speaker 2: when I told them I was like, okay, so I'm
Speaker 2: actually queer. They would be like, yeah, wait, what do
Speaker 2: you think you're coming out to me right now?
Speaker 1: Because you really didn't connect that thought to queerness. No.
Speaker 2: Wow, I love And I say this like in my
Speaker 2: stand up and like in my solo show.
Speaker 3: I like legitimately.
Speaker 2: Before coming out, told my therapist that I was going
Speaker 2: to marry a man and then I was going to
Speaker 2: watch him die, and then I would get to have
Speaker 2: second life where I dated women.
Speaker 1: Wow, what did your therapist do with that, Colonel?
Speaker 3: So she sort of was like.
Speaker 2: You could do that now, good, that's there. Don't have
Speaker 2: to watch a man die. But I actually did have
Speaker 2: to watch a man die. He was not my husband,
Speaker 2: he was my dad. Oh So after my dad passed away, though,
Speaker 2: I felt like it was sort of like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: life is so short sometimes, like sometimes you just like
Speaker 2: literally die when you're like in your fifties.
Speaker 3: So I might not have enough time.
Speaker 2: To marry a man and then get.
Speaker 1: To have something wait for him to die. What if
Speaker 1: he's healthy, Like oh god, right, exactly, fucking up everything.
Speaker 3: I don't have time to poison a.
Speaker 1: Man slowly over decades, right, Uh.
Speaker 3: So yeah, my dad did it.
Speaker 2: He passed away, and it was like it was very
Speaker 2: horrible and and hard. But at the same time, I
Speaker 2: think like when you go through something that really shifts
Speaker 2: your entire life that you weren't expecting, it feels easier
Speaker 2: to make.
Speaker 3: Other shifts. It just feels like like what the fuck?
Speaker 2: You know, like like I just went through something that
Speaker 2: feels like the hardest thing to go through, so I
Speaker 2: should just state women like that's not going to be
Speaker 2: hard and scary.
Speaker 3: I already did something that's hard and scary.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I ended up coming out to my brother.
Speaker 3: On his first sober birthday.
Speaker 1: Oh that's beautful. There's some kind I don't know why,
Speaker 1: but that feels like a nice like pople an emotional Yeah,
Speaker 1: was he the first person you came out to? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that I just.
Speaker 2: Told it in a way that felt like he was
Speaker 2: the first person that I told that I knew that
Speaker 2: I was telling, you know, like because I was dropped
Speaker 2: little nuggets.
Speaker 3: But he was the first person that I told.
Speaker 2: Where I was like choice, I don't and how I
Speaker 2: said it was I want to go on a date,
Speaker 2: but not with a man.
Speaker 3: And then I started crying, crying, crying, crying, crying, and.
Speaker 2: I was like shaking, and he was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I go on a date with a woman.
Speaker 3: He was sort of just like absolutely, that makes sense.
Speaker 1: I love that is so sweet. This is about how
Speaker 1: old or in the realm are we I was in
Speaker 1: a very weird way, how old were you?
Speaker 3: How old are we? So?
Speaker 1: I remember exactly.
Speaker 3: At twenty four?
Speaker 1: So early. Okay, so you've been in LA a couple
Speaker 1: Did you go straight to LA after? Yeah, so you're
Speaker 1: for okay, so you're in LA a couple of years.
Speaker 3: I had been in LA.
Speaker 2: My brother also had moved to LA. My dad passed away,
Speaker 2: Like yeah, so.
Speaker 1: Had a big change. Okay, so yeah that's still pretty
Speaker 1: that's like pretty early. I feel like I felt like.
Speaker 3: I was so old.
Speaker 1: I know everyone just everyone stupid now like looking around like, yeah, baby, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's twenty absolutely a baby, you missed the cutoff.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think I honestly, I don't think
Speaker 1: anything I have after doing this podcast for so long,
Speaker 1: and also I facilitate groups for the LLGBT Center, and
Speaker 1: like I really the whole like late in life thing.
Speaker 1: I think, like I, if you're over sixty, like I'll
Speaker 1: give it to you. But other than that, I just
Speaker 1: see I've heard like so many stories that yeah, I think.
Speaker 3: Different versions of yourself too. Yeah, And so I was like,
Speaker 3: and so that's why I think sometimes I'm like I'm
Speaker 3: not I wouldn't say like I'm a lesbian because there's
Speaker 3: been so many versions of me that are me, you know,
Speaker 3: and so I did like the gayest thing which has
Speaker 3: come out, and then immediately meet somebody.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah truly, just like a few weeks later,
Speaker 2: get into my first queer relationship and then get engaged
Speaker 2: to that person.
Speaker 1: No, wow, look at you. You were making up for
Speaker 1: lost time.
Speaker 3: Let's do it.
Speaker 2: We didn't get engaged like super quickly, though, I will say, like.
Speaker 3: I waited almost a year okay to move in together. Well, no,
Speaker 3: we to move in together.
Speaker 2: We waited like almost a year, and then we got
Speaker 2: engaged like three years in.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Okay, this is actually still feeling very
Speaker 1: This feels like, you know, I'm gonna draw parallel. This
Speaker 1: feels like how I said, like you did Edinburgh in
Speaker 1: like a really responsible way. This feels like a responsible
Speaker 1: way to like do. Like, yes, okay, it's very quickly
Speaker 1: after you first came out you get into a committed relationship.
Speaker 1: That's sort of like that goes with the terror. But
Speaker 1: the fact that like you didn't you didn't you haul
Speaker 1: you didn't immediately get engaged like this feels this still
Speaker 1: feels like very responsible and like mature and thoughtful so
Speaker 1: I think I think you can give.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not engaged anymore, and I'm also well married,
Speaker 2: so okay, yes.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say it sounds like there was a journey,
Speaker 1: but at least you can't you can't say that it
Speaker 1: was because you did anything rash.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think that they would say that I did things
Speaker 2: that were rash.
Speaker 3: That I had been our relationship. But you know, it
Speaker 3: depends on who you ask.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I will say a lot of people, again,
Speaker 1: having done this podcast and facilitated the we have a
Speaker 1: women's coming out workshop, it is incredibly common for many
Speaker 1: people to I try not to use my Hi, Nicole,
Speaker 1: I love you hated the term end up with, and
Speaker 1: so I've tried to remove that from my vocabulary. But
Speaker 1: I do know so many people who have ended up
Speaker 1: partnered with the very first women, who have previously dated
Speaker 1: men who have ended up with the oh I did it,
Speaker 1: who have been partnered with whether it's married or like, like,
Speaker 1: we're in this for the long haul, but we're not
Speaker 1: getting married with the very first woman they ever date.
Speaker 1: I think this is a pretty common thing. So I
Speaker 1: think everything you're saying sounds very familiar, and I'm yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm really interested in hearing what you think she would
Speaker 1: have called rash whereas I'm like that timeline sounds amazing
Speaker 1: to me, like you've read a year before moving in,
Speaker 1: and I'm like it, But but I guess and I
Speaker 1: work out.
Speaker 3: So yeah, my ex fiance now uses they them pronounce.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, thank you got it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, which is always like sort of fun and
Speaker 2: I have a lot of jokes about it in my
Speaker 2: stand up, which we were in touch when I wrote,
Speaker 2: and so they are they're all above board jokes, okay, uh,
Speaker 2: but it's sort of fun now to be like, you know,
Speaker 2: like before maybe like we're not going to ship talk,
Speaker 2: but before like shit talking being like and just by
Speaker 2: the way, don't get their pronouns wrong.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I would be really respectful of their gender,
Speaker 1: but everything else.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and I just like take a huge dump on them.
Speaker 1: That's also a queer culture.
Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like we're respecting pronouns,
Speaker 2: but we are shiit talking.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: We we ultimately just like didn't work and sure, and
Speaker 2: I think there was like a lot of reasons.
Speaker 3: Why, but it was tough. We were together for five years.
Speaker 1: And being the first relationship that was not with assessman.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that was like so added you got yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were together.
Speaker 2: We were together for four years, I guess, and then
Speaker 2: we did like a very fun sort of.
Speaker 3: Are we going to get back together for like a year.
Speaker 1: And that was I've done that.
Speaker 3: It Also they were in a relationship.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, they got into a relationship pretty quickly. And
Speaker 2: the the real like te around that is that like
Speaker 2: I didn't.
Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, okay, so you were other women, but you
Speaker 1: didn't know that's what was going on.
Speaker 3: There was a lot of like sort of stuff. There
Speaker 3: was just a lot.
Speaker 2: But but also like everyone like, there was also a
Speaker 2: lot of like.
Speaker 3: Them breaking up or you know, like I don't really
Speaker 3: like message. It was just it was all problem.
Speaker 1: It was not fun. And again you're going through all
Speaker 1: of this stuff for the first time, like and didn't
Speaker 1: even have God, you had next to no time being
Speaker 1: This is another thing I talked about so much in
Speaker 1: the was Coming Out workshop because it's like that thing
Speaker 1: where your queerness is so rooted in the person you're
Speaker 1: with because you didn't have time to be a single
Speaker 1: queer person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was and it was so tied to them
Speaker 2: and so much as like my identity and like how
Speaker 2: I saw myself because also I did like I did
Speaker 2: like the rest.
Speaker 3: Of my twenties with this person.
Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, you know, or like of statically it
Speaker 1: was okay, that is tough. Yeah, that's really tough.
Speaker 2: But I will say I moved out of la for
Speaker 2: the beginning of that breakup, and I think that it
Speaker 2: should be illegal to live in the same city as
Speaker 2: your ex when you're going through a breakup.
Speaker 1: Could not agree more. That fucking sucked for me with
Speaker 1: my first breakup and then my second, like really heart breakup.
Speaker 1: She still lives in Amsterdam because we met when I
Speaker 1: was working and we're good now, but for like a
Speaker 1: decade we were not. And living on different continents was
Speaker 1: the best thing. I cannot recommend it enough if you're
Speaker 1: going through heartbreak, being a fully different time zone, different continent,
Speaker 1: like your day is there night, it's fucking great. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yes, I also I also think it's super helpful. But
Speaker 3: then I got to be single.
Speaker 1: You know, where did you move to? Where were you
Speaker 1: having your single queer experience?
Speaker 2: So I was in New York.
Speaker 3: I moved to Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's a great that's a great place
Speaker 1: to have.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I didn't do a ton of I was like
Speaker 2: there like doing comedy and sort of like messing around
Speaker 2: that way and like just really losing my mind.
Speaker 3: It was just like such a hard time.
Speaker 2: And and I wasn't doing a ton of dating, but
Speaker 2: I was technically single. And then I did more dating
Speaker 2: when I moved back to La okay, and that's where
Speaker 2: I and then and then I met my ex school
Speaker 2: friend and sort of I was like and then I'm
Speaker 2: dating and then like we got.
Speaker 3: Into a serious relationship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really happens. It really happens. That is that
Speaker 1: is not your fault. That is just like the ancestors
Speaker 1: or whatever. It's in the DNA. But so that was
Speaker 1: the former Loyola. Yes, okay, okay, okay, So we have
Speaker 1: we have first really really tough breakup. We go to Brooklyn.
Speaker 1: I'm saying we like I'm on your show. Yes we
Speaker 1: are Brooklyn Comedy. Not that much dating, but Brooklyn, like
Speaker 1: a great queer said I would I hope, like did
Speaker 1: you feel like totally like.
Speaker 2: And sort of like beautiful, yeah, and sort of like
Speaker 2: trying to find myself and being great.
Speaker 1: I love that you did that without actively dating a ton. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I do. I feel like that's I feel like that's
Speaker 1: a great thing to do to just like be in
Speaker 1: immersed in queer culture but not like queer dating for
Speaker 1: a little while. That's really cool that you did that.
Speaker 2: Whether it was intending, I don't think I was ready
Speaker 2: and it was definitely intentional. I was just like, I
Speaker 2: can't imagine, like the thought of going on a date
Speaker 2: and made you want to throw up. So I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm just not going to And then I went on
Speaker 2: like a few dates and yeah, I moved back to
Speaker 2: and went on a few dates here and then.
Speaker 3: And then started.
Speaker 2: Dating somebody, uh for like a year?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and did I'm so curious? Did is still she her? For?
Speaker 2: For?
Speaker 3: Yeah, my ex girlfriend? Is she her? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Okay? Did she remember you and have any anything to
Speaker 1: say about that time you met at college?
Speaker 3: Was She's like okay, so no, she can't place me
Speaker 3: at that party? And I was like, you watched the
Speaker 3: Disney that is not I'm like I know. I was like,
Speaker 3: we watched a Disney movie together and she goes, you
Speaker 3: were there.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, oh, a white lie doesn't hurt
Speaker 1: like good god, because.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, I remember you. You're so beautiful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, come on, all right, I respect her, honest. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So she couldn't place me there and okay, okay, that's
Speaker 2: that's fine, and you remember her.
Speaker 1: But you don't think there was and there was no
Speaker 1: like awareness, There was no part of you that was like,
Speaker 1: oh she's pretty, okay, wow, YouTube were ships in the night.
Speaker 2: We were sort of we were sort of around each
Speaker 2: other too in LA because we were both in a
Speaker 2: writing group that that met like once a week and
Speaker 2: I would go every week and she sort of would
Speaker 2: come in and out and and she does she is like,
Speaker 2: I did notice you there, like I thought you were
Speaker 2: getting pretty.
Speaker 3: And but at that point I was just coming out
Speaker 3: and then immediately partnered.
Speaker 1: So there was no okay, gotcha, gotcha? Gotcha? Wow? Okay,
Speaker 1: oh my goodness. All right. And so I would really
Speaker 1: love to know when, because I want to talk about
Speaker 1: the videos you do with your mom, because your mom
Speaker 1: seemed so cool. When did you come out to her,
Speaker 1: because you you chose to come out to your brother first,
Speaker 1: because I guess you guys were so close. Was there
Speaker 1: any trepidation about coming out to your mom, or was it, Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: there was, there was.
Speaker 2: I was a little nervous because I had a really
Speaker 2: bad relationship with a guy and she knew about it.
Speaker 3: And I think she was very worried for my choices.
Speaker 3: And it wasn't really.
Speaker 2: About like like whether I was like gay or straight
Speaker 2: or any of that.
Speaker 3: It was like she was.
Speaker 2: Very nervous about my dating choices. And I didn't come
Speaker 2: out to her until I had been dating.
Speaker 3: My I was with I was with my ex. Okay,
Speaker 3: so I came out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I came out to my mom just like
Speaker 2: on this like phone call, and it didn't go well.
Speaker 2: It was like I sort of said it like in
Speaker 2: like a way that was like, well, I'm dating somebody
Speaker 2: and and it's not.
Speaker 3: Because because she was so worried, Like she was like,
Speaker 3: I just need you to like not be dating anyone.
Speaker 3: She was like saying that, and I was like, well,
Speaker 3: I am dating somebody, but it's not a man.
Speaker 2: And I think she was just like, Okay, I don't
Speaker 2: know what to do with that.
Speaker 1: You know, like.
Speaker 2: She still felt the same way. She still was like
Speaker 2: I just don't want you to be dating somebody, and.
Speaker 1: I'm like, but I don't want to be dating anyone,
Speaker 1: Like yeah, that's but then.
Speaker 2: There's sort of like a lot of like tragedy sprinkled
Speaker 2: throughout my journey. Uh.
Speaker 3: You know, welcome to being.
Speaker 1: Alive, but welcome to comedian.
Speaker 2: Also yeah, yeah, my uncle uh was in a coma.
Speaker 2: Uh and he passed away, but he was and it
Speaker 2: was sort of like all of a sudden, Okay, so uh,
Speaker 2: you know, uncle Joe is in a coma in uh in.
Speaker 3: Near the Bay Area.
Speaker 2: You're in LA, like there was we were worried for
Speaker 2: my cousin who was a lot is a lot older
Speaker 2: but had like some addiction issues, and we were worried
Speaker 2: for for him. And so it was sort of like,
Speaker 2: come now to the Bay Area. So I'm like, I'm
Speaker 2: dating my ex fiance at this point, I uh, I
Speaker 2: leased a car because I didn't have a car, and
Speaker 2: I drove to meet my mom to figure out all
Speaker 2: of this shit. And you know, we were good at
Speaker 2: like sort of getting people's affairs in order because we
Speaker 2: had done that with my dad. So you have to
Speaker 2: like break into like people's accounts essentially.
Speaker 3: So you have to like know how to do that,
Speaker 3: which I don't know how to do.
Speaker 1: If that anyone's listening.
Speaker 3: And yeah, so we were dealing with all of that stuff.
Speaker 3: And then my my.
Speaker 2: Ex was like, knew that I was going through it,
Speaker 2: knew that this was like a really horrible time. And uh,
Speaker 2: they were like, do you want me to fly to
Speaker 2: the Bay Area and then I'll drive your car back?
Speaker 3: And I was like, yes, I want you to do that.
Speaker 3: And at this point we had not been dating for
Speaker 3: very long, but wow, but they did that.
Speaker 2: They met my mom for the first time doing that,
Speaker 2: being that like big thing for her daughter, and I
Speaker 2: think that really turned around like the the vibe of
Speaker 2: like I don't want you to be dating. It was
Speaker 2: sort of like this person is so kind and will
Speaker 2: take care of my daughter and and so then it
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, smooth sailing, We're not worried about Catherine's choices.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's really nice. Yeah, really nice.
Speaker 3: And my mom's a huge ally. She like has rainbow
Speaker 3: stuff all over She's like constantly yeah.
Speaker 1: And you so this particular video did I watch. I
Speaker 1: don't know how many have done with her, but you
Speaker 1: were playing a game I believe called finger you haul
Speaker 1: ghost or I'm pretty sure I got that.
Speaker 5: Ye have you just like always been able to talk
Speaker 5: to your mob about stuff like fingering or did that
Speaker 5: come with I'm like, how are you?
Speaker 1: How can you move from this not awesome initial phone
Speaker 1: call to like being able.
Speaker 2: To well again, it was like always it wasn't like
Speaker 2: it wasn't about like who I was having sex with.
Speaker 3: It was always just sort of about like.
Speaker 1: It wasn't still it was the choice of this yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was the choice of where I was putting
Speaker 3: the finger and who the person was.
Speaker 2: But but talking about sex was not It just like
Speaker 2: wasn't like frowned upon. But it also wasn't like done
Speaker 2: a lot in my family. But I have a my
Speaker 2: mom's just awesome, and I just like she's just like
Speaker 2: great and that is just a game that I play
Speaker 2: in pretty gay uh in the show. And so I
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, maybe this will be fun to do
Speaker 2: with my mom. And then I was like, oh god,
Speaker 2: because like you're listening to your mom like, yeah, so
Speaker 2: I would a finger Robert Redford, I would you know,
Speaker 2: You're like.
Speaker 1: Good God, wait, yeah, yeah, it's a two way street.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna talk to your mom, I figure she's
Speaker 1: gonna talk to you about finger. God, that's so beautiful.
Speaker 1: I really I love that journey for the two of you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we were just like laughing so much about it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it was just like we just have so much
Speaker 2: fun together, and so it was sort of like, well,
Speaker 2: of course I'm gonna play this finger you haul goes
Speaker 2: game with my mother?
Speaker 1: Oh god? And so yeah, so we're talking about pretty gay.
Speaker 1: I'd love to talk to you about, like, yeah, how
Speaker 1: did you start doing that show? Uh, just like the
Speaker 1: Genesis all that, And I would really love to hear
Speaker 1: about the choice and then how it went shooting with
Speaker 1: an ex the Was this the first time you had
Speaker 1: had an X on? Is this this upcoming season? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay awesome because I don't have a ton
Speaker 2: of access, to be honest.
Speaker 1: Sam, Yeah, I hear no. Yeah, the clips I've seen
Speaker 1: are so funny, and that definitely stood out in the trailer.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that's a good subscribe.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And and right now her episode is sort of like
Speaker 2: slotted to be one of the later ones.
Speaker 1: Okay, so there's still yeah.
Speaker 3: I'll say that. Like when I was doing it, I
Speaker 3: was like, oh, man.
Speaker 2: Like this is probably going to be hard to like edit,
Speaker 2: and I don't do the head any but like to
Speaker 2: do like to be watching and like doing the clips
Speaker 2: and all that jazz. Sure, sure, but she's really funny
Speaker 2: and she's gay, and so I was like, yeah, absolutely
Speaker 2: be on the show.
Speaker 1: But can you, like, for people who aren't familiar with it,
Speaker 1: can you describe like the like then the elevator pitch
Speaker 1: for a pretty gig? No?
Speaker 2: Totally, Yeah, So Pretty Gay is it's a digital uh
Speaker 2: dating series essentially where I go on mock dates with
Speaker 2: queer comedians and creators and uh, we have segments it's
Speaker 2: like an interview where we're playing like improv games.
Speaker 3: Or you know what. Every date needs an improv game.
Speaker 1: Some of them could be honestly.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So we're just sort of like I talk about like
Speaker 2: they're coming out, We talk about like their queer awakening,
Speaker 2: and then we sort of dive into we dive into
Speaker 2: segments that feel like.
Speaker 3: Date adjacent, you know, like it'll.
Speaker 2: Be like, Okay, so we're in the car, it's the
Speaker 2: end of the date and you want to make a move.
Speaker 2: How do you make that move go? And then like
Speaker 2: and then we like act that out and be like.
Speaker 1: Wow, you do you do an act out? As we
Speaker 1: would call it okay, Wow, that's great. Okay, yeah, or.
Speaker 2: Like, okay, so we've been dating for you know, years,
Speaker 2: and now you want to propose to me.
Speaker 1: Go wow, So I mean I have to ask, have
Speaker 1: you ever ended up dating somebody who you had on
Speaker 1: the show? Did it ever lead to like.
Speaker 2: No, I mean I I mean I did reconnect with
Speaker 2: that X from having her like on the show.
Speaker 3: So so it's.
Speaker 1: Never like, oh my god, we're pretending, but it feels
Speaker 1: so right.
Speaker 2: And then you like there's definitely like a little flirting,
Speaker 2: and that feels like sometimes I will I will say like,
Speaker 2: as the host, I'm sort of like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: are we in love?
Speaker 1: And fucking great? God bless you for calling it out?
Speaker 2: Love that, and and it does like sometimes feel very
Speaker 2: real and yeah, and then I'm like confused afterwards. But
Speaker 2: a lot of there are like I won't say a lot,
Speaker 2: but there's a handful of guests who like are already partnered.
Speaker 3: And they like totally you know, and so I'll.
Speaker 2: Be like, wait, were we flirting or are you just
Speaker 2: sort of a really good guest?
Speaker 1: I okay, I might cut this chunk because it might
Speaker 1: just be like a lot about Lauren and this is
Speaker 1: not a podcast for hearing about me, but I did
Speaker 1: for many years, like on and off, but for a
Speaker 1: number of years in immersive one person show that was
Speaker 1: called Red Flags. Did it the Hollywood Fringe Festival a bunch,
Speaker 1: and then like did it on a little tour in Denver,
Speaker 1: and so the conceit was, and it was written and
Speaker 1: directed by a friend of mine who does like a
Speaker 1: lot of immersive theater work. Although it was the idea
Speaker 1: for it came out of my dating experiences as a
Speaker 1: single person, because she was married and I would like
Speaker 1: text her about these like shitty days that she'd be like,
Speaker 1: this is great. Ended up making a show about it.
Speaker 1: And the conceit was, you are going on a first
Speaker 1: date with a girl, Emma, who you know you met online.
Speaker 1: This is your first date. It's going to go badly,
Speaker 1: and it's called Red Flags, so they know. And then
Speaker 1: my character proceeds to be a hot mess. There's obviously
Speaker 1: a shit ton of improv because there's no audience. It's
Speaker 1: me and one audience member who was also in the
Speaker 1: show with me. They were done. The shows were like
Speaker 1: in bars or like in parks or wherever, so it
Speaker 1: was like a real date and there was a script,
Speaker 1: but again a ton of improva and they're doing this
Speaker 1: show like countless times with both men and women, Like
Speaker 1: there were a couple where I was like, I think
Speaker 1: we actually fell in love, and then my director writer
Speaker 1: would be like, they are married and took their wedding
Speaker 1: ring off to go on the show, and I'd be
Speaker 1: like cool, cool, cool, like, but they were like when
Speaker 1: I first started doing the show, I was so concerned
Speaker 1: for the audience member. I was like, I don't want
Speaker 1: to manipulate them or like make them a friend. And
Speaker 1: then over the course of doing the show, I realized
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 3: The one actually if you were getting I have this
Speaker 3: authentic experience.
Speaker 1: And then find out that they I once did a
Speaker 1: couple back to back and didn't know until my producer
Speaker 1: told me. She's like, no, no, no, no, no, they were married.
Speaker 1: Did you You're seven and you're nine o'clock were married.
Speaker 1: And I was like, fuck, oh my, so I feel you.
Speaker 1: I feel you on that like, oh this feels like
Speaker 1: really real, and I'm like, oh no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: They were just like they just are a big theater appreciator,
Speaker 1: like they were really locked in with me.
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, that's like messy, and you're also like, well,
Speaker 2: like you were saying, you were playing a character, but
Speaker 2: I am. I'm both myself, but I'm also this like
Speaker 2: host character like I have.
Speaker 1: To Yes, You're like, my job is to.
Speaker 3: Actually fall in love with all these people.
Speaker 1: That is.
Speaker 2: So so then when you're like, wait are we Like
Speaker 2: there's one guest who totally took me off guard.
Speaker 3: And said, well, how do we stay in touch? And
Speaker 3: I was like wait what because it was.
Speaker 2: The cameras were rolling and I'm like is this are
Speaker 2: you actually asking or are you sort of like doing
Speaker 2: a great bit because it was also a great bit.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's so yeah, yeah, I love I
Speaker 1: meet so few people who can understand that experience and
Speaker 1: you like a hundred percent get it.
Speaker 2: I love yes, and you're yeah and so like it
Speaker 2: is fun though. It's so fun to like then be
Speaker 2: able to like relive going on these like fantastic dates
Speaker 2: through like releasing clips and things like that, and it's
Speaker 2: like it it is sort of like, uh, I feel
Speaker 2: like I've tricked everyone into like letting me do something
Speaker 2: that's literally so fun and like oh you get.
Speaker 3: To like laugh and laugh and laugh and meet like cool.
Speaker 2: Queer creators like, yeah, it's it's been a dream to
Speaker 2: be able to do.
Speaker 3: And and I have.
Speaker 2: I have yet to fall in love and actually date
Speaker 2: any of my.
Speaker 1: And same with me on this podcast. It's like six
Speaker 1: years and I I feel I feel like I failed.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I hear you.
Speaker 5: I've been I've been doing it three times longer than
Speaker 5: you and have yet.
Speaker 1: To get a serious relationship out of it. So I
Speaker 1: wish you better luck than I have had not the
Speaker 1: bounce wnicle when I started the podcast, but it was
Speaker 1: it was sort of a secret for both of us.
Speaker 1: We were both like, one of these is how I'm
Speaker 1: gonna She's already like married, and like she's like, what
Speaker 1: if this is how you get a girlfriend?
Speaker 2: But this is not how it went down but truly,
Speaker 2: and then you just end up like being like, oh no,
Speaker 2: I'm just like sort of creating this like great world and.
Speaker 1: I made a resource that's the Trevor Project listed and
Speaker 1: their resources, but I didn't cool friend.
Speaker 3: So like, but I didn't get a girlfriend, So I failed.
Speaker 1: Familiar Yeah, but I fucking all the clips I've seen
Speaker 1: are so funny and just like so engaging, and I'm
Speaker 1: so yeah, I'm excited to watch also for these moments
Speaker 1: where I'm gonna be like, is she like really feeling
Speaker 1: so good?
Speaker 3: Actually?
Speaker 2: I know, Well it's interesting because it'll be interesting to
Speaker 2: like sort of watch back my access episode because like
Speaker 2: I mean, if I'm being totally transparent, like I was
Speaker 2: still in love with her, like yeah, sort of still
Speaker 2: am sort of just you know, that's sort of my vibe.
Speaker 1: My vibe is like, like I love long Ago so much.
Speaker 1: How long Ago breakup?
Speaker 2: Well, it's like one of those things that's like like
Speaker 2: on again.
Speaker 3: It has been. It has been a little bit of
Speaker 3: a seesaw but gotcha. But I'm the I'm the one
Speaker 3: who like ended it because.
Speaker 2: Because I actually have terrible work life balance and and
Speaker 2: you know, I was like going to Edinburgh and I
Speaker 2: just like, I'm sure if I was talking to a
Speaker 2: therapist who looked at my entire life, they would be like,
Speaker 2: and you have major commitment issues.
Speaker 1: Well, fortunately I have no qualification, so I am at all.
Speaker 2: No, You're perfect and everybody never change. Yeah, so I
Speaker 2: guess technically it's been like a few months since we Oh.
Speaker 1: God, that's so yeah, that's so wow. So yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: having really cool that you had her on.
Speaker 6: I love people who are like this might be hard emotionally,
Speaker 6: but it'll be so funny. Like that's so like people
Speaker 6: who place the importance of the bit over their own
Speaker 6: emotional safety. Like that is how I roll one hundred percent,
Speaker 6: and I respect.
Speaker 1: It for content always always always always, Yeah I once, yeah,
Speaker 1: we died. My way through a breakup would just be like, oh,
Speaker 1: credit Trader Joe's again.
Speaker 2: Like I love that, Yes, you got That's sometimes what
Speaker 2: you need, and like, yeah, comedy's healing, and you know
Speaker 2: she's a comedian also, and uh and so she was
Speaker 2: like so down, you know, she was like, yeah, of
Speaker 2: course let's do this.
Speaker 1: I love that. Okay, So how can people watch season
Speaker 1: two of Pretty Gay, which is currently releasing episodes at
Speaker 1: the time that you're listening to this, or it'll be
Speaker 1: a few out, but it'll still be pretty early in
Speaker 1: the season. So yeah, and please let folks know how
Speaker 1: they can follow you and also watch your stand up
Speaker 1: and just all the plug all these things.
Speaker 2: Okay, so plugging all the things. You can watch Pretty
Speaker 2: Gay on Patreon. So it's like they patreon dot com
Speaker 2: slash pretty gay, uh, and you it is.
Speaker 3: Behind a paywall, so you have to subscribe.
Speaker 2: There is a h seven day free trial though, so
Speaker 2: you know you can. You can do that and then
Speaker 2: try to cram in as much content and then decide
Speaker 2: whether or not you want to, you know, sort of
Speaker 2: give me five dollars a month.
Speaker 3: I would say it's worth it.
Speaker 1: I think that's a fair trade. Yeah, based on behind
Speaker 1: the scenes we've heard, I feel like that's well worth it.
Speaker 2: And then if you follow me online, that's where I
Speaker 2: post clips, and we we make a lot of clips
Speaker 2: at the show. So if you're sort of hard up
Speaker 2: on cash and you just want to watch the clips,
Speaker 2: please do that and just follow me at Catherine Underscore
Speaker 2: MCAF and that is on Instagram and on TikTok and
Speaker 2: then there we do also post YouTube shorts and that
Speaker 2: would also be on pretty gay YouTube channel fantastic.
Speaker 1: And I assume that following you is how folks can
Speaker 1: find out about like your stand up days.
Speaker 2: Stand up my Yeah, I'm gonna try to tour my
Speaker 2: solo show.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, So I'm trying.
Speaker 2: To book dates for that, and uh, if you just
Speaker 2: follow me online, I'll tell you where I am and
Speaker 2: then you can come all.
Speaker 1: Right, And Catherine before we like fully wrap up. Is
Speaker 1: there anything we didn't get to that that you want
Speaker 1: to say or like any like yeah, anything that we
Speaker 1: didn't hit that you're like, I wish I wish I
Speaker 1: could say, Oh gosh, no.
Speaker 3: I don't think so that was like perfect. I'm actually
Speaker 3: like sort of going through the rollodecks being like, did
Speaker 3: I say anything weird?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 2: No, I yeah, I don't think that we missed anything
Speaker 2: other than just like I will say that I have
Speaker 2: this moment a lot where I just am sort of
Speaker 2: like walking around and then it hits me, like how
Speaker 2: cool it is to be gay.
Speaker 3: I don't think that.
Speaker 2: I used to feel like that, like or I just didn't.
Speaker 2: I just didn't like fully like embrace all of myself
Speaker 2: and until like later, I think until like I got
Speaker 2: out of until my engagement like ended, and I got
Speaker 2: to sort of be like in the world and just
Speaker 2: be gay and be like, wait a second, this is cool.
Speaker 2: Like people are gonna say, like it's harder, but it's
Speaker 2: just like it's just so cool. And I'm so lucky
Speaker 2: because I live in Los Angeles where like people aren't
Speaker 2: you know, trying to murder me. And I'm also so
Speaker 2: lucky because I'm a CIS woman and uh and so
Speaker 2: like I think, yeah, I think I know how lucky
Speaker 2: I am, and I think.
Speaker 3: We all.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm happy that like I'm on this journey and
Speaker 2: I'm on this boat with like all my queer and
Speaker 2: like with all my like queer friends that I don't
Speaker 2: even know yet, you know, So, like I just think
Speaker 2: it's really cool.
Speaker 1: Ah, that is a perfect I'm so glad I asked
Speaker 1: because that is that is a perfect thing to end
Speaker 1: on y'all. You know you know how to follow me.
Speaker 1: I am at Laurene Flowns on Twitter. Yeah, I'm still
Speaker 1: on it. That's my addiction. I'm Lauren Underscore Flanns on Instagram.
Speaker 1: The podcast is at Coming Out pod everywhere. Hey, you
Speaker 1: know what's fun leaving reviews or clicking five stars out
Speaker 1: of a choice of five stars. You can do that
Speaker 1: on iTunes. You can do that on Spotify. What else
Speaker 1: do I say? At these wrap ups? It's been a while.
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like I hit the important things.
Speaker 1: So one more episode coming at you later in the month. Catherine,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. This was so goddamn fun. You
Speaker 1: are so fun. I'm excited to watch Pretty Gay and
Speaker 1: just yeah, this was really awesome. Thank you for coming O.
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1: All right, y'all, I will talk to you next time
Speaker 1: I talk to you. Bye.