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Speaker 1: Hello. So this is Richard Gates from Athamston Cree and

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I'll play at Mouse Great Golf.

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Speaker 2: This is the Golf Smarter Podcast, episode number nine seventy nine.

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You know, if I'm not comfortable with something like my

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grip or my setup, I'll make sure I work on

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those things off the golf course. You know, once they

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get on the golf course though, you have to play golf.

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Speaker 3: You have to adapt because you know, if you.

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Speaker 2: Work too much on the range, you're not adapting very well.

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If you can put the playing part more in the

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positive ratio, I think you're just going to get more

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out of your game because you don't adapt on the

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practice tee. Let's face it, the environment there just doesn't

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allow you to adapt.

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Speaker 3: When you're on the golf.

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Speaker 2: Course, you're always trying to figure out Okay, different wind

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direction on every hole, the win the turf, every lie

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is different, every scenario you have seems to be different

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than the next. So the more you play, the more

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golf shots that you develop and remember in your repertoire

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to the next time you go, oh wow, so oh

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I had a lie like that two weeks ago. That

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you have to you have to a lot to have

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a lot of good recall memory to remember what this

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particular lie does to the golf ball, where you don't

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have that on the practice team.

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Speaker 1: With this episode, we launch our twentieth year balancing Practice

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and play is Essential for Golf Improvement with Steve Scott, PGA.

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This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from

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great golf minds to help you lower your score and

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raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome

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to the Golf Smarter Podcast.

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Speaker 3: Steve great, great to be with you, Fred, Thank.

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Speaker 1: You so much. We have so many different topics we

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can go talk about here. Looking at your bio, You've

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done so many different things in the golf world, and

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usually I would start, where do you want to start? Actually,

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where would you like to go? Now, let's do it

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this way. What is the Silver Club golfing society that

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you founded?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Well, well, so I was a PGA profess I still

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am a PGA professional. I was had the traditional head

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professional role from two thousand and nine till the end

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of twenty seventeen at a couple of clubs in New

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Jersey and New York. And you know, ever since then,

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I've been associated with a group called the Outpost Club,

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and we created kind of a competitive version of the

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Outpost Club. Basically just a bunch of golf officionados who

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love the game. We basically set up really fun opportunities

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for our members to go and play great places in

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the world of golf, whether it's you know, the Olympic Club,

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East Lake, Oakmont, I mean, kind of the creme de

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la creme, if you will, of the golf world. And

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so we set up kind of yeah, we set up

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really you know, kind of when we do some resorts

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as well. We do some international trips. We went to

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the Walker Cup in Scotland last year.

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Speaker 3: Fun, you know, we just we put together a lot

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of fun things. Everybody in our group.

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Speaker 2: The Silver Club Golfing Society is a single digit handicap

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our sister society, the Outpost Club. Anybody can can join that,

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but you know, you have to have a pretty passionate

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love for the game. Architecturally significant courses, you know, kind

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of a golf.

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Speaker 3: Nerd if you will, I guess, but not too nerdy.

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Speaker 1: Well, you're talking to the right group here, because anybody

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who's listening to this show, I have to believe, is

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a complete golf nerd because we cover so many different

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topics and so many different directions and people keep listening.

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So I'm like, I don't know what we're going to

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talk about next, So thank you for sticking around. So

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golf Nerds it is. Have you always been a fan

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of golf architecture?

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Speaker 2: You know, I haven't, not forever, I would say, so.

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I played for professionally for six years. I played professionally

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from the nineteen ninety nine to two thousand and five,

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had moderate success. I played in twenty PGA Tour events

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in my life, one a couple of times in the

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Canadian Tour.

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Speaker 3: But you know, I.

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Speaker 2: Quickly realized that my game was not up to the

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snuff of the.

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Speaker 3: Tiger woodses of the world.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, that being said, you know, I decided

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to shift shift years.

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Speaker 3: I got married at a pretty young young.

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Speaker 2: Age to a great lady named Christy who's she's an

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LPGA teaching professional herself, and you know, we've just always

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been involved with the game, and so you know, the

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natural progression was I, you know, I always wanted to

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be in golf. I love the game of golf, I

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love competing, I love kind of sharing the game with

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others and so, you know, in my travels, I mean

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when I was a head pro in the met PGA

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section in the New York Metropolitan area, I was at

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a club called Paramount Country Club and it was a

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course designed by a famous architect called aw Tilling has

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to build a course on the private estate of the

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Paramount Pictures founder Adolph Zucker back in nineteen twenty and

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it was about thirty minutes northwest of New York City

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in a city called New City, New York, in Rockland County.

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And you know, being in the METS section, you get

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exposed to a lot of great golf courses. You know,

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the greatest architects of the world. You know CB McDonald

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and you know Tilling, Hass and then the you know,

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even in the modern you know, anybody really who is

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anything in golf? Donald Ross for example. Obviously not nobody

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of these are modern, but you know, not too many

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modern courses I get in the New York area, a

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lot of built in the nineteen tens and.

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Speaker 3: Twenties and whatnot.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, over time you start to develop a love

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for you know, what makes golf cool. It's kind of

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like being a wine enthusiast, for example, and you start

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to understand what makes wine good and certain years and

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vintages are better than others, and so, you know, you

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start to get into that world in the golf world,

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and it's kind of cool to understand the history of

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some of some places. And I live in Winston Salem,

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North Carolina now, and so I belonged to a course

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called the Old Town Club. It was built in nineteen

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thirty nine, really the last golf course in the Golden

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Age of architecture. And it was built by Perry Maxwell,

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who built mainly courses in Oklahoma, Texas, like you know,

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Colonial Country Club and you know places Prairie Dunes in.

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Speaker 3: Kansas. But he built Old Town.

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Speaker 2: And it was really because of the connection with Clifford

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Roberts from Augusta National, the gentleman.

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Speaker 3: He was working with the R. J.

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Speaker 2: Reynolds Company, and he had a connection with you know,

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the founder, the head of R. J. Reynolds and said,

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you know, who should I get to build a golf

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course here in Winston Salem, North Carolina. He said, oh,

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Perry Maxwell. He's been doing some work at Augusta, you know,

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in the mid to late in mid to late nineteen thirties,

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and so it just kind of worked out. And so anyway,

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it's kind of the routing of the golf course is unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: So over time, I guess, make a long story short,

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I have become a golf architecture, you know, really just

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an enthusiast and a lover of you know, what makes

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golf courses cool?

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Speaker 3: I mean the routing.

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Speaker 2: Why did the architect pick the way he did to

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lay the golf course on the land that he did

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that he had to work with, and it's really genius

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in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 3: And back then they didn't have.

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Speaker 2: All the technology they do now at their disposals, So

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it makes it even more astounding that they built the

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golf courses the way they did back then.

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Speaker 1: It really does when you think about what they have

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available to him today and what they didn't have available

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but still were able to make some courses that are

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as challenging today as they were when they first open,

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and probably even more.

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Speaker 3: So, oh no doubt.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, they just didn't have the earth

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moving equipment which made the golf courses much more natural.

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Back then, they had to picture the best properties because

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they weren't able to move as much earth and which

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makes the golf, which makes golf better because it doesn't

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it's not artificial. It's very natural looking. And I think

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that's what the architects that are building golf courses nowadays

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are really doing. So yeah, just there's so much love

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for you know, the architect and the canvas that he

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uses with the land that he has offered and or

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she is offered. And so it's been pretty it's been

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pretty neat to experience. I've probably you know, been to

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or played two thirds of the country's top one hundred

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golf courses. So very fortunate in that respect. At only

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forty seven years of age, I've gotten around to a

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lot of great places.

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Speaker 3: So a lot more to go, but.

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Speaker 2: I've had a lot of great experiences, you know, through

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the Silver Club, through the Outpost Club, to be able

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to you know, see and experience and enjoy so many

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of these these world's great golf greatest golf courses.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I played last week. I went and visited a

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friend in Maui, Hawaii, excuse me, and uh we played

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a course, the Dunes at Maui Lani, which was designed

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by the late Robin Nelson and Robin was on the

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show multiple times. He grew up in the area where

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I live now, Marine County, California, and he was one

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of those architects that was like, let's just take the

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land as it is and not do a lot of movement.

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And this course is like the only link style course

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in Mali, and it was tough, but it was really

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beautiful the way he was able to just let the

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let the ground, let the land take what the hole

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was going to do, and made it incredibly challenging. It's

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definitely it's kind of like going on a group tour

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to a country where you don't speak the language, and

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you just like, I need a local with me. Luckily

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my friend lived there and played multiple times, and it's

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like needed to guide me through this course because if

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I didn't know where I was going, that little booklet

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that explained where I was would not have helped at all. Right, right,

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using the land the way it is in today, you know,

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with having all that earth mover equipment and not needing

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it was really spectacular.

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Speaker 2: Need to experience those courses, and there's so many courses

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being built right now that are so remote and they're

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becoming so popular. I mean, Bandon Dunes is very hard

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to get to, and that's you know, relatively new. I

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mean there's there's courses. There's one being built in the

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Orange Groves of central Florida, in the middle of nowhere,

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south of Seabring, Florida, on a sandy ridge called High Grove.

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It's going to be starting to be built. That one

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is very very interesting. Gil Hans is building that one.

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So anyway, there's just a lot of very remote places

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being built now that are it's really interesting where they're

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finding this land and the perfect property.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I've played Bandon Dunes a couple of times. Luckily,

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you know, I'm on the west coast, so it's not

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as difficult to get to, but it's still difficult. Yeah,

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you get too, but it's become I guess it's like

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fret Boy Disneyland. It's like just guys wanting to spend

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days doing nothing but golf and talking about it and playing.

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But it's an absolute joy. Have you been out to

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Bandon Nuts.

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Speaker 3: I have, I have. I was there yea in twenty

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just about a year ago.

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Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, yeah, awesome. So I want to talk about

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your time as a not just a teaching professional, but

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as a playing profession because you also wrote a book,

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Hey Tiger, you need to Move Your Mark Back, which

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is such an amazing title. Give me a brief overview

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as a taste.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy, well, it really goes back to my experiences

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playing in the nineteen ninety six US Amateur finals against

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the great Tiger Woods.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty serendipitous event for me. I mean,

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three hundred and twelve players start the US Amateur and

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to think you could be in the final two, let

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alone your opponent is arguably the greatest player who's ever lived, right,

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so even at that time, at that time, he was

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going for history. The day that we played was he

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was going for three straight US Amateur championships. Nobody in

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the history of golf had ever won three straight US Amateurs.

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I mean one hundreds be played one hundred and twenty

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four years now, I guess. So it's pretty amazing what

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he did that day and how it all turned out.

246
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But you know, just to make it to the finals

247
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against him as a miraculous feat in itself. But I

248
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was five up. There's the thirty six. The finals of

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the US Amateur are thirty six holes. We went thirty

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eight holes, so two playoff holes on top of the

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regulation time. But I was five up after eighteen holes

252
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and shot two under par in the second eighteen I

253
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played very well, but he just played lights out. He

254
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shot seven under, and so we tied and went to

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the second playoff hole where he beat me. But the

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epic moment of the match, and where the book is entitled, is,

257
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you know, basically, I'm two up with three to play.

258
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So if I win this particular holes, the thirty fourth

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hole of the match. If I win this hole, I

260
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win the match and I take away his history moment.

261
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And so we both hit our drives down the fairway.

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I hit my approach into the green side bunker and

263
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his wedge approach he drove it fifty three yards past

264
00:14:04,159 --> 00:14:08,840
me exactly, and his wedge approach went about six feet

265
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from the hole. So I hit a bunker shot out.

266
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Wasn't the greatest bunker shot, but not the worst. I

267
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,480
had about ten feet for park, so I had to

268
00:14:16,519 --> 00:14:21,240
make my putt for par to force him to make

269
00:14:21,279 --> 00:14:24,200
his to win the hole outright. Well, his ballmarker was

270
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,360
right in my line of putt, and so, like any

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golfer does any day playing golf, Hey, would you just

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00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,759
move that butt ballmarker over one putter head so we

273
00:14:33,799 --> 00:14:36,519
can have a free roll. And so he does, and

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I went up there and I made my putt, and

275
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you know, it was very nervous and as you can

276
00:14:41,759 --> 00:14:45,039
imagine in a moment like that, and hit the best

277
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,799
putt I could ever dead center the hole. Walking off

278
00:14:47,799 --> 00:14:50,600
to the side of the green, and I had noticed

279
00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:53,559
that he had put his ball down in the wrong spot,

280
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and so basically I just turned my head to the

281
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side and I saw it out of the corner of

282
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my eye. I said, hey, Tiger, you got to you

283
00:15:01,759 --> 00:15:05,600
got to move your mark back. And he he had forgotten.

284
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And so if he would have played from the wrong spot,

285
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he would have lost the hole. That is, that's the

286
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rule in match play golf, and so the match would

287
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have been over at that point. I would have won

288
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,200
three up with two to holes to play, and uh,

289
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and that would have that would have been pretty been

290
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pretty crazy to win the US Amateur. But to win

291
00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:28,879
it on a technicality like that, Uh, you know, it's

292
00:15:28,919 --> 00:15:31,600
not necessarily golf. It's the first rule of the game

293
00:15:31,679 --> 00:15:34,840
is to play with integrity. And you know, I asked

294
00:15:34,919 --> 00:15:37,159
him to move the mark over, so I should be

295
00:15:37,159 --> 00:15:39,600
the one to remind him move it back as well.

296
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And there have been instances in golf where, you know,

297
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,120
the second part of that two part transaction did not

298
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take place, and people do it those things on purpose sadly.

299
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But for me and what I learned in the game

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as a youngster, that moment was it was something it

301
00:15:57,919 --> 00:16:00,679
was a reflex action for me. If you look back

302
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,720
on the YouTube video that's out there now, I mean

303
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,120
it's you know, it was just a it was a

304
00:16:06,159 --> 00:16:09,279
reflex action. Like it was something I learned in the game.

305
00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:12,279
It was kind of burned into my idea at golf DNA,

306
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,600
and so that's just what you do as a golfer.

307
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,320
You remind your opponent to move his mark back, You

308
00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:22,279
help your opponent find their golf ball. You it's you're

309
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,320
kind of your own police out there in a way.

310
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:29,120
There's no referee blowing whistles or throwing flags, and so

311
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,600
golf is that gentleman's sport, gentlewoman's sport, and so you

312
00:16:34,039 --> 00:16:37,879
you just do the right thing. And that's really what

313
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that moment and that whole entire book was all about.

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Speaker 1: Well, congratulations on making it that far and congratulations are

315
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,879
your integrity, But I'm curious to know even in nineteen

316
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:04,079
ninety six, did Tiger have the intimidation factor that he

317
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,640
was known for when he made it to the tour

318
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,000
and just dominated the tour. When you walk out there

319
00:17:10,039 --> 00:17:12,279
and you're like, I'm playing Tiger Woods. The guy has

320
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,559
just won the last two Amateur Championships going for his

321
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:20,640
thirds the last round. Was he intimidating or was he

322
00:17:20,759 --> 00:17:22,200
just a great guy to play with?

323
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:23,240
Speaker 3: Well?

324
00:17:23,559 --> 00:17:25,200
Speaker 1: And many more options than that.

325
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:29,480
Speaker 2: He was very intimidating, for sure. I mean, given the

326
00:17:29,799 --> 00:17:33,960
sheer length that he drove the golf ball in itself,

327
00:17:34,039 --> 00:17:37,480
I think was very intimidating. But luckily for me, about

328
00:17:37,559 --> 00:17:40,160
nine months prior to this, I was paired with him

329
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,200
in a collegiate event. He played for Stanford and I

330
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,759
played for the University of Florida, And that was a

331
00:17:45,839 --> 00:17:48,599
really good break because that day, that first time I

332
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,039
played with him, I was very intimidated.

333
00:17:51,079 --> 00:17:52,440
Speaker 3: I was watching what he was doing.

334
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,559
Speaker 2: He was hitting shots that were just otherworldly, and so

335
00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,680
really I made it a point and I shot in

336
00:18:00,279 --> 00:18:02,200
that day, by the way, and he shot a seventy

337
00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,960
The very first time we played wow. And so it

338
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,359
was definitely he threw me off my game. I was

339
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:09,680
I was not sharp, I was not focused on what

340
00:18:09,759 --> 00:18:12,319
I needed to focus on. So the game plan going

341
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,960
into that US Amateur Final was to not watch him

342
00:18:16,039 --> 00:18:21,519
hit a shot. And that's very difficult because he's very impressive.

343
00:18:21,559 --> 00:18:24,000
He's amazing to watch. If any of your listeners, I'm sure,

344
00:18:24,039 --> 00:18:26,640
have ever seen him hit a golf ball in person,

345
00:18:28,319 --> 00:18:30,759
the sound of his golf ball certainly I couldn't get

346
00:18:30,759 --> 00:18:32,839
away from that. But I just didn't want to get

347
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,279
caught up in his world. And so that was kind

348
00:18:35,319 --> 00:18:38,000
of that was the game plan that day that my

349
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,480
girlfriend Christy now my wife for over twenty five years now,

350
00:18:41,519 --> 00:18:44,680
who was cadding for me, which is another wrinkle in

351
00:18:44,759 --> 00:18:48,200
the whole day because not many females actually caddied back then.

352
00:18:49,279 --> 00:18:52,960
We'll get to that, but you know, yeah, he was

353
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,759
definitely intimidating, but and I had it. But I had

354
00:18:56,759 --> 00:18:59,599
a game plan to kind of, you know, get out

355
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,240
of that intimidation factor.

356
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:10,839
Speaker 1: Okay, girlfriend caddy, then wife Caddy. Did she caddy for

357
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:11,960
you on the tour too.

358
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,160
Speaker 2: A little bit? Yes, yeah, she definitely, you know, not

359
00:19:15,319 --> 00:19:18,240
full time. I mean I never had my PGA Tour card.

360
00:19:18,279 --> 00:19:21,319
But but I've played a bunch of events and she's

361
00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,799
caddied for me in both the Majors that I played

362
00:19:23,799 --> 00:19:25,599
and the Masters in the US Open.

363
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,279
Speaker 3: She's caddied for me in lots of events.

364
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,240
Speaker 2: The very last PGA Tour event I played, I mean

365
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,079
forty seven now, so I played the Windham Championship on

366
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,279
the PGA Tour in twenty nineteen through the Carolinas PGA

367
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,000
section where I reside now, and she caddied for me

368
00:19:44,039 --> 00:19:46,319
there too, So might.

369
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:47,839
Speaker 3: Be my last PG event. I hope not.

370
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,559
Speaker 2: I've got a chance to qualify for the PGA Championship

371
00:19:50,599 --> 00:19:53,599
this next year, which is exciting, so I still compete.

372
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 3: I'm still into the game.

373
00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:58,160
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's pretty neat to having somebody who knows

374
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,160
you and knows your game so well you'll be right

375
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,720
with with your step for step, well, yeah.

376
00:20:03,519 --> 00:20:06,960
Speaker 1: You'd always hope that whoever's caddying for you that they

377
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,680
know your game, especially at that level. But there's also

378
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:17,920
an element of husband, wife energy, even boyfriend girlfriend energy

379
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,400
that can I can imagine. I mean, like, I can't

380
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,640
even play golf with my wife, you know, She's like, oh,

381
00:20:25,799 --> 00:20:27,559
I you know, I play golf, and I'm like, you

382
00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:29,279
haven't picked up a club in five years. Well, we

383
00:20:29,279 --> 00:20:30,839
can go play nine holes. I said, well, I'm not

384
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:32,960
going until you hit a bucket a ball. Now, I'm

385
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,680
not going to do that. It's like, okay, forget it.

386
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,200
We're just you go for a hike, I'll go play golf.

387
00:20:37,279 --> 00:20:42,200
We'll be We'll all be fine. But how do you

388
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:46,720
avoid I mean, there's a couple of topics here, but

389
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,160
I want to talk about you and your wife. Your

390
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,079
wife caddying for you. How do you avoid that kind

391
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:56,920
of tension that is natural for a couple.

392
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's we just we get along so well. I mean,

393
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,720
like I said earlier, she's an LPG teaching professional herself,

394
00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:06,640
so she's into the game. She understands. She's not just

395
00:21:07,519 --> 00:21:09,440
you know, a wife that just goes shopping every day.

396
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,680
I mean, she understands, you know, everything that I go

397
00:21:11,799 --> 00:21:16,480
through competitively. She played competitively at Florida Southern College and

398
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,359
you know, high school before that, and she didn't really

399
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,920
have any aspiration to turn professional. But yeah, it's uh,

400
00:21:24,319 --> 00:21:26,240
you know, it could be trying at times if you

401
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,200
miss a whole bunch of cuts in a row and

402
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,759
you're not making a lot of money, and and you're

403
00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:33,920
in all these strange cities, and you know sometimes you

404
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:35,599
know hotel rooms and you don't want to be in

405
00:21:35,759 --> 00:21:38,680
and yeah, asking, oh.

406
00:21:38,599 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 1: Gosh, what's the point that you say to her, yeah,

407
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,119
I'm going to get a different caddy next. How do

408
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,480
you do that? I mean, how do you tell her

409
00:21:46,519 --> 00:21:47,400
that you're fired?

410
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 3: Yeah?

411
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,079
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's it's it's more you realize it

412
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,279
mutually when if you're not making you know, me as

413
00:21:54,319 --> 00:21:56,720
the golfer, I'm not out there holding enough putts and

414
00:21:56,759 --> 00:21:59,480
hitting enough good shots. I'm not making checks. So somebody's

415
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,799
got to make some guaranteed money. So that's probably what

416
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:04,400
it turned out to at some point. I'm trying to

417
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,519
remember exactly when that happened, but it definitely happened.

418
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,759
Speaker 1: I'm sure it does. I'm sorry. I kind of find

419
00:22:11,839 --> 00:22:18,200
that funny. Yeah, and baffling as well. But congratulations. I mean,

420
00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:21,559
I'm glad that you were able to make it work. Wow,

421
00:22:23,839 --> 00:22:28,440
let's see, there's so much talk about you. You then

422
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,759
have done a lot of golf media as.

423
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:35,279
Speaker 3: Well, Right, I have, I have, I.

424
00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: Because you're blessed with that incredible voice.

425
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,759
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you, Yeah, maybe, uh fortunate in a

426
00:22:41,839 --> 00:22:44,720
lot of ways. But you know, I measured in communications

427
00:22:44,759 --> 00:22:47,559
in college, so I always kind of had a plan

428
00:22:47,599 --> 00:22:50,079
when I missed a cut. When I played the Canadian Tour,

429
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,240
for example, and they were the Golf Channel was covering events,

430
00:22:53,839 --> 00:22:57,640
I would I would work as an encourse reporter a

431
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,119
few times over the weekend, which was fun. I wanted

432
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,599
to get my foot into the door. I always I

433
00:23:03,599 --> 00:23:06,200
always had a love for it. I mean, I'm a

434
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,680
golf nut. I watch golf all the time, probably too much,

435
00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:13,599
but I've always kind of had that love for all

436
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,000
the everything that goes on in covering a golf event. So,

437
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,400
you know, as a head professional in the mets section

438
00:23:19,559 --> 00:23:23,519
back in I guess it was twenty seventeen, well, twenty

439
00:23:23,599 --> 00:23:28,319
sixteen is when I kind of got my first breaks.

440
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,759
The USGA event, the US Girls Junior was at a

441
00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:34,519
club not too far away from where I was a

442
00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:37,119
pro at, just over the border in New Jersey at

443
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:42,599
Ridgewood Country Club, and they needed another person to cover

444
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:47,359
the semi final match, and I knew somebody that got

445
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:52,200
me involved with it, and so I worked that and

446
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,200
I guess they liked what I did and so the

447
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:57,799
next year I did three events for Fox when they

448
00:23:57,839 --> 00:23:59,880
had the eight events that they covered for the U S.

449
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,799
G A, and and then you know, I did that

450
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,039
for I did that for a couple of years. But

451
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,599
really I kind of saw it because as a head

452
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,440
pro in the in the summer, in a July for example,

453
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,480
you're kind of in the heat of the of the

454
00:24:13,519 --> 00:24:17,680
golf season right there. And you know, I really had

455
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,799
the love for the broadcasting side, and I and I

456
00:24:20,839 --> 00:24:23,240
my club was very kind that the owner of the

457
00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:26,039
club was very kind to let me go and you know,

458
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,400
spend three weeks essentially in the middle of the golf

459
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,000
season doing covering these events.

460
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 3: And I had this love for it.

461
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,599
Speaker 2: I had this passion for it, and so yeah, that

462
00:24:38,599 --> 00:24:42,160
that kind of led me to you know, shifting gears

463
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,839
a little bit in my career and and opening up

464
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,359
the you know, additional opportunities to do broadcasting and and

465
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,680
nowadays really for the last three plus years, I've been

466
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,200
either an analyst in the booth or an en course

467
00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,839
broadcaster for ESPN and PGA two or live and so

468
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,480
I've been doing several events for them every year, and

469
00:25:04,559 --> 00:25:07,079
so that's been a ton of fun and that platform

470
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:08,119
has blown up.

471
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 3: If anybody has seen that.

472
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,279
Speaker 2: I mean, we've got four different channels, and I think

473
00:25:12,319 --> 00:25:14,319
they'll there will be a fifth one this year with

474
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,119
an international feed that's fully staffed with a you know,

475
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,880
a host and an analyst and an en course reporter.

476
00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:24,279
So yeah, there's only going to be more coverage of

477
00:25:24,279 --> 00:25:26,680
the tour. So it's very exciting for me. I love,

478
00:25:27,279 --> 00:25:29,880
you know, being out there in the you know, in

479
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,799
the mix, or learning about what the players are working

480
00:25:32,839 --> 00:25:37,000
on with their coaches, or and then explaining that to

481
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:41,039
the viewer in a way that's not over their head

482
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,680
but in a way that you can, you know, it's

483
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,160
easily digestible and understandable, whether you're a twenty handicap or

484
00:25:48,519 --> 00:25:52,400
a pro. I try to give all sorts of knowledge

485
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,680
levels and information during my during my coverage of an event.

486
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:08,759
Speaker 1: So what makes golf unique and interesting on television is

487
00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:12,119
the unique perspective that en course reporters and in the

488
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,720
booth people can bring to the game. Do you try

489
00:26:16,759 --> 00:26:20,920
to find a niche for yourself as a broadcaster on

490
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:27,440
your perspective? Are you just talk well no, I for sure, No.

491
00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 2: I think every every analyst out there, which I am.

492
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,039
I'm you know, the host is kind of the one

493
00:26:33,079 --> 00:26:35,079
that brings you in and out of commercial and kind

494
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,680
of sets up the analyst for you know, the color

495
00:26:38,839 --> 00:26:42,200
of what's going on out there, getting inside the player's heads.

496
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,039
And you know, for me as a PGA professional since

497
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,160
two thousand and seven, shot, I'm going on, you know,

498
00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:51,599
almost twenty you know, nearly twenty years of being a

499
00:26:51,599 --> 00:26:55,079
PGA professional, and all the thousands of lessons that I've given,

500
00:26:55,599 --> 00:26:59,799
I try to relay, you know, what the players are doing,

501
00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:02,759
you know, in their golf swings or you know, try

502
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:07,960
to help them identify, help the viewer kind of easily

503
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,880
identify what sort of changes Like Exander Schafflee, for example,

504
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,640
you know, for this last year and the great play

505
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,559
he had and two major championship victories, you know, what

506
00:27:17,759 --> 00:27:21,359
did he do with his instructor, Chris Como in strengthening

507
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,279
in the club face at the top of the swing

508
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,319
that really helped him succeed in a greater level in

509
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,960
twenty twenty four. I mean, those are the things that

510
00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:33,519
I love passing on to the viewers who maybe don't

511
00:27:33,599 --> 00:27:38,559
quite get all the inside knowledge. That's the fun part

512
00:27:38,599 --> 00:27:41,880
for me. And you know, definitely my PGA professional side.

513
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,079
I bring that to bear for sure. You know, I'm

514
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,720
not a major champion. I'm not a Ryder Cup captain.

515
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,359
You know, I'm not you know, probably not going to

516
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,720
be in the eighteenth tower for a major network. But

517
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,440
you know, somebody like me can serve a very good

518
00:27:55,559 --> 00:28:01,839
role in you know, passing along really pertinent information, timely information,

519
00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:06,400
and being succynct with your thoughts, those things. If you

520
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,319
marry those things as an analyst, I think you'll nail it.

521
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,519
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about the state of the game from

522
00:28:13,559 --> 00:28:17,400
your perspective. How are we doing and where are we going?

523
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, our question, that's a loaded question right there. You know,

524
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,039
I don't think anybody really knows other than Jay Monahan

525
00:28:27,079 --> 00:28:29,079
and those few people that are in those closed door

526
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,839
meetings right now, there hasn't been much to leak out

527
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,640
with which what going on between the Live Tour and

528
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,160
the PGA tour. You know, your guess is kind of

529
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,319
as good as mine on that one. But I think

530
00:28:41,359 --> 00:28:44,359
they're getting closer to something, you know, by some accounts.

531
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,480
But you know, there's a lot of there's a lot

532
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,559
of little things that everybody's trying to iron out, but

533
00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:53,720
the golf world needs to get back together more than

534
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,519
just a few times during the major championship seasons.

535
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 3: You know, we need to we need to.

536
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,519
Speaker 2: Get the best players on the same golf course, you know,

537
00:29:03,559 --> 00:29:05,880
a dozen times a year, and that would I think

538
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,440
that would be a win. I don't think it's going

539
00:29:07,519 --> 00:29:09,880
to be every week because I think there's you know,

540
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,400
the Live Tour could continue in its team format.

541
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know if the PGA Tour will

542
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,160
ever go to a team format. I think that there's

543
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:17,759
just a lot of.

544
00:29:17,759 --> 00:29:22,279
Speaker 1: Things that you know, the two team events that the

545
00:29:22,319 --> 00:29:24,160
presidents and Ryder country.

546
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,119
Speaker 2: True, well, that's a bigger team. And then you know,

547
00:29:26,279 --> 00:29:29,240
we have this TGL Golf that's going to be starting

548
00:29:29,319 --> 00:29:32,599
up in early January. That's this indoor you know, golf

549
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,880
simulator sort of league, which is very interesting to me

550
00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:38,960
to see how that will all kind of shake itself out.

551
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 3: I you know, some people are very skeptical about it

552
00:29:42,039 --> 00:29:42,359
right now.

553
00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:45,079
Speaker 2: I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I think

554
00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:47,160
that that's a you know, we've got four person teams

555
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,480
of PGA Tour players and we're going to see We're

556
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,920
going to see a team aspect of some sort, you know,

557
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,400
through PGA tour players. So I think that's going to

558
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,680
be a very interesting addition to our Monday and Tuesday

559
00:29:59,759 --> 00:30:01,559
night lineups the first quarter of the year.

560
00:30:02,119 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, a decade or so, maybe even a

561
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,720
little more than that ago, when someone started a thing

562
00:30:08,759 --> 00:30:11,720
called Twitch where people were just watching somebody play a

563
00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:17,240
video game, and it's like, that's a dumb idea that exploded, right,

564
00:30:17,519 --> 00:30:21,960
So watching people play video games has been proven to work,

565
00:30:22,119 --> 00:30:28,359
so watching people play simulators may have some legs to it.

566
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:29,119
I mean, I just.

567
00:30:30,039 --> 00:30:32,119
Speaker 3: We're going to see, We're going to see.

568
00:30:32,319 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be it's a very interesting

569
00:30:34,279 --> 00:30:39,559
concept and there's tremendous funds behind it. They built a

570
00:30:39,599 --> 00:30:43,839
state of the art stadium, indoor golf stadium, if you will,

571
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,319
that nobody has ever seen before, so you know, a

572
00:30:48,359 --> 00:30:52,440
screen that's you know, twenty times the size of a

573
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,119
movie theater screen or something like that. So it's it's

574
00:30:56,519 --> 00:30:59,920
going to be very unlike anything we've ever seen. Its

575
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:02,400
gonna be very very interesting. It's almost like they're hitting

576
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,640
shots into an Imax theater or something. It's it's gonna

577
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,160
be really interesting to see how it all plays.

578
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:07,359
Speaker 3: Out.

579
00:31:07,599 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a place down in la I think it's

580
00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:12,480
Cosm is the name of it or something, But it's

581
00:31:12,599 --> 00:31:17,519
it's like a movie theater but for sports, and it

582
00:31:17,559 --> 00:31:20,680
has this gigantic screen that it makes you feel like

583
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,079
your courts are at courtside an NBA game or you're

584
00:31:23,079 --> 00:31:25,559
sitting in the end zone at a football game, and

585
00:31:25,599 --> 00:31:28,160
it's kind of like a bar, and do people go

586
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,240
to and watch. I can see how this could really

587
00:31:31,279 --> 00:31:33,039
be attractive in many markets.

588
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,519
Speaker 2: So it's a it's a very interesting concept, and yeah,

589
00:31:36,559 --> 00:31:38,319
we'll see how it all shakes out.

590
00:31:38,599 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 1: Well, you said your guess is as good as mine.

591
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:45,079
I don't think so, Steve. I think you're you're in it.

592
00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:47,640
You talk to him, what's the buzz on the on

593
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,279
the on the grass? I mean what you've talked to players.

594
00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:55,960
You get their sense of what's going on, and clearly

595
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,480
you're saying they're as confused as all of us because

596
00:31:58,519 --> 00:32:01,720
the doors are closed in the cons are not public. Yeah,

597
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,000
what's the sense you get on both sides of And

598
00:32:06,039 --> 00:32:08,000
I don't know if you talk to live players as well.

599
00:32:08,759 --> 00:32:13,039
Speaker 2: No, I really haven't, honestly, you know, I really think

600
00:32:13,079 --> 00:32:16,799
the meetings have been extremely tight lipped. I mean not

601
00:32:16,839 --> 00:32:20,880
even the golf insiders that have more insight than I do.

602
00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:25,640
I mean, nobody's really shared anything. So it's you know,

603
00:32:26,279 --> 00:32:29,680
it's like I guess J Monahan said, you can't negotiate

604
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,759
out in public the way they're doing it and what

605
00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:34,880
they have to do, all the little things, because the

606
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,119
social media world will run rampant. I mean, they just can't.

607
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:42,279
They can't let any little thing leak out, and so

608
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,839
it's you know, hopefully it will have I don't. I'm

609
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,359
not seeing it's going to happen for the season of

610
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:49,279
twenty twenty five.

611
00:32:50,839 --> 00:32:53,079
Speaker 3: You know, it's just getting too close. We have two

612
00:32:53,119 --> 00:32:53,640
months to go.

613
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 2: I just don't think they're going to be able to

614
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,960
get enough things in order and in place, so it

615
00:32:59,079 --> 00:33:00,559
might be an a year or so.

616
00:33:01,279 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, who knows how far along they are and those

617
00:33:04,359 --> 00:33:07,559
those meetings and what's going on, because it's amazing that

618
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,079
nothing's got leaked at this point. You'd think you'd get

619
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,240
something out there to find out what's going on. Huh,

620
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:16,400
don't know.

621
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 3: I don't know.

622
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: I'd love to know, but we'll deal with it at

623
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:26,039
the time. So let's let's talk about playing golf all right,

624
00:33:26,119 --> 00:33:30,119
You're you're teaching pro, playing pro, You've seen a lot

625
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,759
of things. What do you feel is the state of

626
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,160
golf instruction these days?

627
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,519
Speaker 2: I think the state of golf instruction is is great.

628
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,480
I mean, I think the the you know, there's there's

629
00:33:44,519 --> 00:33:49,880
so many avenues for the quote unquote average player or

630
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,400
any player to consume golf instruction out there through the

631
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,359
world of YouTube, through social media platforms that so many

632
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:03,720
of these teachers have and utilize. I think the so

633
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,200
so that's wonderful. I think as a student you have

634
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,800
to be very cautious though, because every teacher has their

635
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,199
own concepts, their own ideas, their own thoughts about what

636
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,199
the swing should be. And there are so many different

637
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,679
ways to play golf. You can grip the club conventionally.

638
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,519
You can grip the club, you know, cross handed, you

639
00:34:25,519 --> 00:34:28,559
can grip. You can put your right foot back when

640
00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:30,519
you make a back, I mean you can. You can

641
00:34:30,559 --> 00:34:32,320
set up left and may hit a fade. You can

642
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,920
set up right and hit a draw, you know, as

643
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:36,760
a right I mean.

644
00:34:36,599 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 3: You can. There's so many ways to put I mean,

645
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:40,960
there's so many ways.

646
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 2: To get the ball into the hole. I think what

647
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,199
you have to do as a player with all of

648
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,960
this instruction is you have to find out what works

649
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,760
for you and then just stick along those lines because

650
00:34:55,039 --> 00:34:57,599
you know, if you are if you are somebody who

651
00:34:58,119 --> 00:35:03,559
who consumes golfing information and golf instruction out there, you

652
00:35:03,639 --> 00:35:06,280
can get confused. I mean, you know the pages of

653
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,519
Golf Digest or Golf Magazine. I mean they've they very

654
00:35:09,559 --> 00:35:12,519
often put you know, in consecutive.

655
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,159
Speaker 3: Pages on there on their in their magazine.

656
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,639
Speaker 2: They have you know, in the past, they've put you know,

657
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,159
conflicting ways to do this or do that. But there

658
00:35:22,199 --> 00:35:24,159
are just so many ways to do it. And so

659
00:35:24,679 --> 00:35:27,639
you know, the more information you seek out as a

660
00:35:27,639 --> 00:35:31,119
as a as a student can be good, but it

661
00:35:31,159 --> 00:35:34,280
can also be you know, not so great because but

662
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,519
you do have uh you know, the world of AI is.

663
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,599
Speaker 3: Out there right now with golf instruction. Uh.

664
00:35:41,159 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 2: You know, you don't even need a golf teacher in

665
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:45,440
some ways if you don't want one. I mean, you

666
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,199
can just video your swing and you know, the AI

667
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,360
will you know, tell you if your left arm is

668
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,440
too high, if your club face is too open. Uh,

669
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,000
there's it's very interesting what is out there. But I mean,

670
00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:00,960
then you have all the launch monitors like track Man

671
00:36:01,079 --> 00:36:04,840
and flight scope and all of those things that help

672
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,960
tell you everything about your your swinging. It's almost information overload,

673
00:36:09,079 --> 00:36:12,679
and so you have to really be selective, I think

674
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,679
as a student in what you seek out, because you

675
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,519
can get confused. You can there are there's there's so

676
00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:24,199
much information out there where twenty twenty five years ago

677
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,320
there was not, and so you know you have to

678
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,159
get you have to kind of pin down and maybe

679
00:36:31,199 --> 00:36:34,679
you need some you know, get your local PGA professional too.

680
00:36:35,079 --> 00:36:36,760
You know, if you're a member at a club or

681
00:36:37,199 --> 00:36:39,920
if you're at a public club or whatever, it doesn't matter.

682
00:36:40,119 --> 00:36:43,719
Seek out somebody who's you know, who you feel is knowledgeable,

683
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,360
or somebody in your area you feel like is knowledgeable

684
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,400
as a teacher or a golf professional, and you know,

685
00:36:49,679 --> 00:36:52,719
ask them what they think too. They'll probably have a

686
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,039
different answer than I will. But I think the best

687
00:36:56,079 --> 00:36:59,920
and the best lesson I ever got, the best understanding, was,

688
00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:03,719
you know, find a golf teacher who you really connect with,

689
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,320
or a method you really connect with, and really dive

690
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:10,679
into that. And you know, don't jump here, jump there,

691
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,880
look for all these because you can get lost in

692
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,719
the abyss of swing thoughts and swing instruction out there too.

693
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,519
I think that that's a there's a lot of cautionary

694
00:37:20,559 --> 00:37:23,400
tales out there, you know, whether it's the professional ranks

695
00:37:23,519 --> 00:37:25,119
or just the average club player.

696
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 1: There is so much information. Like just recently, a few

697
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:37,639
weeks ago, a few episodes ago, we had g hay

698
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:42,159
Lee with sports Box AI. Right, we talked to her

699
00:37:42,159 --> 00:37:45,920
and learned about how AI can monitor your swing and

700
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,719
give you suggestions, and you know, you find someone that

701
00:37:50,039 --> 00:37:53,360
works for you and you stick with it. But I

702
00:37:53,599 --> 00:37:57,679
found and as a recreational golfer, not a competitive golfer,

703
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,079
but I found that it works for me for a

704
00:38:01,119 --> 00:38:04,960
couple of rounds and then it's gone, it doesn't work,

705
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,679
and it's like, now what do I do? I tweak here,

706
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:10,519
I tweak there. There's always there's always something going on

707
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:15,000
that you've got to figure out. What am I? You know,

708
00:38:15,159 --> 00:38:18,079
how do I continue with that? Stay without without overdue?

709
00:38:18,199 --> 00:38:20,360
I don't know what the answer to that is.

710
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 2: Well, look, we're in the we're in the instant gratification

711
00:38:24,119 --> 00:38:26,480
world here right, we have Amazon and we can go

712
00:38:26,559 --> 00:38:28,719
on our phone right now and press a button and

713
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,119
you know, something can be at our door in an hour.

714
00:38:31,159 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 3: Depending on where we live.

715
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,599
Speaker 2: And you know, with this instant gratification world doesn't necessarily

716
00:38:36,639 --> 00:38:40,519
exist in golf, it really doesn't. Being proficient at the

717
00:38:40,559 --> 00:38:44,639
game of golf it is a it's a process. I mean,

718
00:38:44,679 --> 00:38:46,719
it's a you you have to have a very long

719
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,000
term mindset. If you want to be good at golf,

720
00:38:50,559 --> 00:38:53,239
you have to put lots of hours into it. And

721
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,719
if you don't, then you know, you can be an

722
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,719
average player and have fun playing the game and you know,

723
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,000
shoot in the eighties or ninety or hunters or whatever

724
00:39:01,039 --> 00:39:05,440
you shoot, but you know, to really be proficient, you know.

725
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,239
For me, I've been a golf professional for you know,

726
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,800
since i was what twenty two years old, so for

727
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,320
last twenty five years, you know, I've I've studied the game.

728
00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:17,119
Speaker 3: I've I've perfected my own game.

729
00:39:17,159 --> 00:39:20,519
Speaker 2: I've hit tens of thousands of golf balls, and I've

730
00:39:20,559 --> 00:39:24,280
basically developed a golf swing and putting strokes that you know,

731
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,440
they're pretty repeatable by this point, because I understand what

732
00:39:27,599 --> 00:39:30,480
makes Mike swing tick. And so I try not to

733
00:39:30,519 --> 00:39:33,599
stray too far from from those things that I've learned

734
00:39:33,639 --> 00:39:34,920
over time, trying.

735
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,760
Speaker 3: Not to go too down too many rabbit holes.

736
00:39:37,559 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this about golf instruction. Is there

737
00:39:43,159 --> 00:39:46,360
I don't want to say too much. Where is the

738
00:39:46,519 --> 00:39:53,800
balance in instruction on swing mechanics and course management, because

739
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,639
you know, we call the show golf Smarter. Yeah, and

740
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,840
that doesn't necessarily mean work on you know, hit two

741
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,000
hundred balls a day, you know, over and over and

742
00:40:05,039 --> 00:40:07,199
over with no instruction, just hitting the balls, going oh,

743
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:08,639
look at the ball flight, Look at the ball flight. Look.

744
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,360
But then you get out on the golf course and

745
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,199
you're not hitting off of a mat, you're not hitting

746
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,239
off of sandy grass, and you're not hitting off of

747
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,760
an uneven line, you're not hitting out of a you know,

748
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,679
course management being able to met to me is playing

749
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:28,119
golf versus hitting balls. Where do you find that balance?

750
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,840
And as an instructor, for you, how do you maintain

751
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,199
that balance and where do you what do you emphasize? Well?

752
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,039
Speaker 2: I think for me as a I still play tournaments,

753
00:40:38,679 --> 00:40:40,960
and so the closer I get to a tournament, the

754
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:42,719
more I want to play golf, the more I want

755
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,239
to be on the golf course. If there's something I'm

756
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,519
working on in my swing, I'll spend a you know,

757
00:40:48,519 --> 00:40:51,880
if I have let's say, you know, five hours a

758
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,239
week to work on my game and plus maybe a

759
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:58,239
round of golf. You know, I will, I will make

760
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,119
sure that you know, if I'm not comfortable with something

761
00:41:01,199 --> 00:41:04,599
like my grip or or my setup, I'll make sure

762
00:41:04,639 --> 00:41:08,119
I work on those things off the golf course. And

763
00:41:08,119 --> 00:41:10,039
then you know, once they get on the golf course though,

764
00:41:10,119 --> 00:41:12,079
you have to, you have to play golf.

765
00:41:12,119 --> 00:41:12,599
Speaker 3: You have to.

766
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 2: You have to adapt because you know, if you work

767
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,800
too much on the range, you have the flat lies,

768
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,599
like you said, and you have you're you're not adapting

769
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,039
very well. And so the best the more that you

770
00:41:24,079 --> 00:41:26,639
can play, honestly, if you if you have if you

771
00:41:26,679 --> 00:41:31,079
can put put the the playing part more in the

772
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:35,679
uh in the the positive ratio of the practicing to playing,

773
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:37,760
I think you're just going to get more out of

774
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,840
your game because you don't adapt on the on the

775
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,800
practice tea. Let's face it, because you the the the

776
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,679
environment there just doesn't allow you to adapt. When you're

777
00:41:46,679 --> 00:41:49,039
on the golf course, You're you're right, you're always trying

778
00:41:49,039 --> 00:41:51,599
to figure out Okay, different wind direction on every whole.

779
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 3: Uh, you know, the wind.

780
00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:58,599
Speaker 2: The turf, every lie is different, Uh, every scenario you

781
00:41:58,679 --> 00:42:01,199
have seems to be different than the next. So the

782
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,280
more you play, the more golf shots that you develop

783
00:42:04,679 --> 00:42:07,880
and remember in your repertoire to where the next time

784
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,199
you go out you said, oh, I had a lie

785
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,440
like that, you know two weeks ago that you have

786
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:12,880
to you have to a lot to have a lot

787
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,840
of good recall memory like that, to remember what this

788
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,599
particular lie does to the golf ball, for example, where

789
00:42:19,639 --> 00:42:21,960
you don't have that on the practice tee. So you know,

790
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,800
if it was me, the best year I ever had

791
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,840
playing golf was was that I can remember it was

792
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:27,719
nineteen ninety six.

793
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,039
Speaker 3: That year I played against Tiger.

794
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 2: I played so much that year I can't remember even

795
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,480
practicing a lot. I just went out on the golf

796
00:42:34,559 --> 00:42:37,039
course and played and played and played, and that was me.

797
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,280
Some people are very different. Bryson de Shamba, he says

798
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:42,880
when he's home, he doesn't play golf.

799
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,079
Speaker 3: He practices golf, and that's it.

800
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,079
Speaker 2: And so it just depends on your mindset and how

801
00:42:48,119 --> 00:42:51,840
you're you're kind of wired. But as a general rule,

802
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,039
you are going to learn a heck of a lot

803
00:42:54,039 --> 00:42:56,840
more about yourself and about your game when you can

804
00:42:57,199 --> 00:43:00,159
devote more time on the course and less time on

805
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:01,000
the practice team.

806
00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see that so as a not as

807
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,920
a golf instructor, but as a golfer, which I'm assuming

808
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,920
the way you're talking, you've been playing most of your life.

809
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:18,119
You started out as a kid. Yep, what do you

810
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:22,079
what stands out to you as the best advice you've

811
00:43:22,119 --> 00:43:24,159
ever received as a golfer?

812
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 3: Best advice?

813
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,679
Speaker 2: That's uh, I think I had.

814
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 3: I had a great instructor. I was very fortunate.

815
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 2: I met a gentleman by the name of Ray Daily

816
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:39,400
when I was ten years old and he gave me

817
00:43:39,519 --> 00:43:41,920
lessons for about three years. He was a he was

818
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,880
a you know, one of the old pros. He wore

819
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,199
the sans a belt, slacks, and he had played on

820
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,679
the tour back in the fifties. And uh, he taught me.

821
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,880
He didn't charge me a penny for the lessons he

822
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:54,760
he caught. He taught me by the way, which was

823
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,880
unbelievable that would ever happened to it. But his name

824
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,199
was Ray Daily, lived in Pompino Beach, Florida, and was

825
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,760
just a huge impact for me. And the one lesson

826
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,719
that he gave me that I'll never forget as long

827
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:11,199
as I live, and it's the simplest thing for dialing

828
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,360
in your golf swing. You know, as you turn and

829
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,400
you go back to the top of the swing and

830
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,559
then you come down your right hip. If you're a

831
00:44:18,599 --> 00:44:21,440
right handed golfer, your right hip and your hands have

832
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,800
to get to the point of impact at the same time.

833
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,480
And if you can do that, you'll time the strike

834
00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:30,320
up very well. So he always told me, said, Steve,

835
00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:34,480
hip in hand together. And so that's kind of the thought.

836
00:44:34,599 --> 00:44:36,480
You know, if your arms, if your hands out race

837
00:44:36,519 --> 00:44:38,800
your hips, you're not going to hit it well. If

838
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,719
your hips out race your hands, you're not going to

839
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,280
hit it that well. But it's that marriage of the

840
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,519
lower body and the upper body in just a simple phrase,

841
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:48,760
hip in hand together.

842
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,639
Speaker 3: I thought that was the best lesson I ever.

843
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:57,079
Speaker 1: Got, interesting because that's mechanics, that swing mechanics, right.

844
00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:59,159
Speaker 3: But it's simple though.

845
00:44:59,079 --> 00:45:03,679
Speaker 1: It is it is, but it's and it's effective and

846
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,519
it's in your head right. Like some of the best

847
00:45:06,559 --> 00:45:09,360
advice that we've ever had on the show may have

848
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,480
come from a listener who knows where at the beginning is,

849
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,840
but we say never follow a bad shot with a

850
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:19,320
stupid shot, right. So now we're going back. We're going

851
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:24,639
back to course management and playing golf versus hitting a ball.

852
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:25,119
Speaker 3: Yep.

853
00:45:25,519 --> 00:45:29,199
Speaker 1: So I'm just so fascinated. I love that question, and

854
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,920
it always kind of throws people when I ask him that, like,

855
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:33,960
what's the best advice? So let me ask him this

856
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:38,000
as an instructor, what's the best advice you've ever received.

857
00:45:38,519 --> 00:45:43,760
Speaker 2: As an instructor? I also learned as an instructor. I

858
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,920
learned from the great Bob Tosky founded the Golf Digest

859
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:52,199
schools with Jim Flick. And you know, Bob is still

860
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,400
He's still live and kicking. And I was almost one

861
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,519
hundred years old, Bob is and but he taught me,

862
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,960
this was probably about twenty years ago, that as a

863
00:46:03,039 --> 00:46:06,320
right handed golfer, you know, your left arm, or your

864
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,159
lead arm as a golfer, is the master arm, and

865
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,880
your left hand, your lead hand, is the master hand.

866
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,320
You have to really understand that that that side of

867
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,760
your body needs to be controlling the club face more

868
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:23,159
than the right side or your trailing side of your

869
00:46:23,199 --> 00:46:24,360
of your your body.

870
00:46:24,639 --> 00:46:26,199
Speaker 3: And once I learned.

871
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:31,559
Speaker 2: That my golf ball behaved a lot better, I understood,

872
00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:34,639
I understood how to grip the club better, which controlled

873
00:46:34,639 --> 00:46:37,159
the club face better, which in turn controlled my golf

874
00:46:37,199 --> 00:46:40,480
ball better. So it really all stemmed from, you know,

875
00:46:40,639 --> 00:46:44,159
the left arm and the lead arm being the master arm.

876
00:46:44,199 --> 00:46:50,159
Speaker 1: Fascinating Steve Scott s c O t TPGA dot com

877
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,920
right yep. And then on social media find you at

878
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,360
Steve Scott PGA.

879
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:01,679
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, s S Scott PGA on on Instagram and

880
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,400
the X. And you know, there's a really neat, neat

881
00:47:05,639 --> 00:47:09,719
thing though that you know, if as we're as we're going,

882
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,559
can I can I just add this? So there's a

883
00:47:13,599 --> 00:47:16,440
really as you know, in the broadcasting world. And so

884
00:47:16,519 --> 00:47:19,679
we've got you know, the Silver Club Golfing Society, and

885
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,280
I'm doing a lot of broadcasting with ESPN. One of

886
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,199
the other great things that I'm doing is I'm involved

887
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,000
with it with a group called Whole nineteen. It's a

888
00:47:28,119 --> 00:47:33,039
it's a really it's a neat new venture if you will.

889
00:47:33,159 --> 00:47:36,719
There's a gentleman by the name of Mac Barnhardt and

890
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:39,280
a lady by the name of Rose Lanham have have

891
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:43,400
created this kind of a speaker's form, if you will,

892
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,599
called Speakers for Good and this Whole nineteen part of it.

893
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 3: So Mac and Bros.

894
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,559
Speaker 2: They're involved with a lot of a lot of great

895
00:47:51,559 --> 00:47:55,639
people in the game, from Lucas Glover to Joey D

896
00:47:56,199 --> 00:47:59,360
who is the great fitness trainer for a lot of

897
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:01,880
the PGA two players in the in the Jupiter Palm

898
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:02,800
Beach area.

899
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,800
Speaker 1: Who we just had on re there we go.

900
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,199
Speaker 3: See as Joey D's you know, he's on our podcasts.

901
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,000
He's famous, right, But you know.

902
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 2: And so and so what we're doing, we're creating it,

903
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,320
you know, with with the likes of myself and others,

904
00:48:16,679 --> 00:48:22,960
creating really neat opportunities for for you know, companies, corporations

905
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,400
within whether it's PGA tour events or whatnot, to have

906
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:31,000
a really kind of unique, you know, kind of boutique experience,

907
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,320
if you will. Let's say, for example, there was a

908
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,880
small group of people involved in a in a company

909
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,639
and they wanted to have an inside look of you know,

910
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,159
what were the players going through, and so like I

911
00:48:42,159 --> 00:48:45,599
could walk around with a small group of people during

912
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,920
nine holes of a PGA Tour event and give them,

913
00:48:49,679 --> 00:48:53,199
uh the insight to what what is going on in

914
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:56,360
the PGA Tour players heads, for example, and kind of

915
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,800
give them the the inside track. You know, you have

916
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,000
all these pro ams on Wednesday at a PGA Tour

917
00:49:02,039 --> 00:49:04,920
event and the players get to interact sometimes with the

918
00:49:05,639 --> 00:49:09,039
the golf professional out there, depending on how outgoing or

919
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,000
they are or not. But you know, they don't always

920
00:49:12,039 --> 00:49:15,519
get all the inside information out there to what they're

921
00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:17,960
doing when they're doing it. And so you know what this,

922
00:49:18,119 --> 00:49:20,920
what our Whole nineteen group can offer is kind of

923
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,719
just a neat kind of inside the experience in a way,

924
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,920
kind of an elevated VIP experience if you will to

925
00:49:28,679 --> 00:49:32,199
you know, go and you know, really you know, get

926
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:35,960
involved with these corporations and these companies who want to

927
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,599
be involved with golf, and you know, we could have

928
00:49:38,639 --> 00:49:40,559
a day and they could get trained by Joey d

929
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,840
We could you know, I could go play golf with them.

930
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 3: We could I could fix their.

931
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 2: Slice, and then we could go out to a tour

932
00:49:46,039 --> 00:49:48,760
event you know, in the area and and you know

933
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:50,880
watch and get the inside scoop of what the players

934
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:51,159
are doing.

935
00:49:51,199 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 1: There.

936
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 2: There's lots of cool opportunities that are being created with

937
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:56,039
with Whole nineteen.

938
00:49:56,159 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 3: So I just wanted to share that with you as well.

939
00:49:58,679 --> 00:50:00,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, and how do we find that?

940
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,599
Speaker 2: And you'd be able to find that on playersfourgod dot

941
00:50:03,599 --> 00:50:06,639
com and look through there and and reach out to

942
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:11,159
Rose and and we can get some good information on

943
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,840
the whole nineteen and uh and get involved with that

944
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:16,199
awesome Steve.

945
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,639
Speaker 1: It's really been fascinating to talk to you, hear your story.

946
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:23,599
Thank you for sharing some incredible stories and some incredible

947
00:50:23,639 --> 00:50:25,599
insights and lessons. Thanks so much.

948
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,760
Speaker 3: No, it's really really great to be with you, Fred.

949
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:31,440
Speaker 2: And yeah, just sharing all the fun information and the

950
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fun anything golf.

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Speaker 3: I can talk all day about