Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: Bert Breer, My friend, what is going on?
Speaker 3: Hey?
Speaker 4: Gary? How are we doing it?
Speaker 1: It's been too long, but like hey, personality is back
Speaker 1: in Foxborough. Man Mike vrabel At, the stand up comedian,
Speaker 1: the guy that used to hold court in front of
Speaker 1: his locker during it, you know, every every Wednesday down
Speaker 1: there in Foxboro is now running the ship. So Burt
Speaker 1: from sports illustrator that's joining us here on night Side.
Speaker 1: I want to start with Mayo. We're going to cover
Speaker 1: the coaching situation for the Patriots. I want to start
Speaker 1: with Mayol.
Speaker 2: I love the guy.
Speaker 1: I'm biased. I worked with him. I thought he was
Speaker 1: in a no win situation.
Speaker 2: What did you think?
Speaker 1: Because I just feel terrible for him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I you know, obviously he wasn't ready
Speaker 3: for the job. So I think that's where you start.
Speaker 3: But then you do that going in. You know, I
Speaker 3: think what happened last year or over the course of
Speaker 3: this year, or was it just a complete system failure?
Speaker 3: And everything that could go wrong with that franchise has
Speaker 3: gone wrong over the last five years, And you know,
Speaker 3: I don't think you can isolate the single year and
Speaker 3: act as if like it was just a blip because
Speaker 3: they've been building towards.
Speaker 4: Us for a while.
Speaker 5: The roster was no good, right the the the organization
Speaker 5: is behind the rest of the NFL in a lot
Speaker 5: of different ways, and look like it's because they were
Speaker 5: doing it in a way that worked for them for
Speaker 5: a long long time under Bill.
Speaker 4: But Bill's one of one.
Speaker 3: There aren't there is anybody else who can do the
Speaker 3: job the way that he can. So you take that
Speaker 3: piece out, you don't replace it with the sort of
Speaker 3: numbers that you needed.
Speaker 4: They were short all over the place. And you know, I.
Speaker 3: Think some of that even showed up while Bill was
Speaker 3: still the.
Speaker 6: Coach, And so certainly and Girodd was Drod was inheriting
Speaker 6: something that that that was in need of total overhaul,
Speaker 6: and you know he's starting that overhaul while he's learning
Speaker 6: how to do the job.
Speaker 3: It was an impossible situation. And yeah, I say that
Speaker 3: in restros tech now it's easy to in restrosp I
Speaker 3: just think it's the truth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so too, And like I said, I
Speaker 1: hope the guy gets another shot to coach. When he
Speaker 1: went back into coaching, he was working with us. He
Speaker 1: was also working with in the pharmaceutical world. He's a
Speaker 1: bright guy. He had a couple of businesses. I said,
Speaker 1: you're nuts, said, you're out of your mind. If you
Speaker 1: want to go back and coach, you're going to take
Speaker 1: a pay cut from your business life.
Speaker 2: I go, You're you're crazy. But he wanted to do it.
Speaker 1: I just you know, I just hope he if he
Speaker 1: decides to get back in, and I hope he gets
Speaker 1: another chance. Now bringing us to Vrabel, you know, Vrabel
Speaker 1: did say that Bill had given him a chance or
Speaker 1: asked him to come coach, and he backed away from it.
Speaker 1: And I think the blueprint is exactly what he did.
Speaker 1: He left New England, and we all know he get
Speaker 1: traded to to the Texas and I mean Kansas City,
Speaker 1: Kansas City, Kansas City. But he was an assistant at
Speaker 1: Ohio State. He was a position coach with the Texans.
Speaker 1: And then did he ever become defensive coordinator with you
Speaker 1: Siner or with Rome.
Speaker 4: He was the DC for one year, He.
Speaker 1: Was the DC for one year after Roami retired, okay,
Speaker 1: and then he becomes the head coach. My point is
Speaker 1: like Rabel didn't come back here and just sit under Bill,
Speaker 1: because I really think in some ways it's hard to
Speaker 1: develop your own style and become your own man over
Speaker 1: somebody like Bill, who's arguably the greatest defensive coach in
Speaker 1: the history of the game.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'd also say this.
Speaker 3: I remember having a conversation with with my back when
Speaker 3: he was a player, and I love the connection, the
Speaker 3: High of State connection, and we were talking about Chris Stielman,
Speaker 3: and you know, Chris film is obviously a legendary and
Speaker 3: everything else. When Jim Trussell got the job at Ohio State,
Speaker 3: Chris Fielman was up for it and really wanted it,
Speaker 3: but he'd never coached before. And you know, Mike, Mike
Speaker 3: had said to me. This was obviously years later.
Speaker 4: I was a college on trust with that higher but.
Speaker 3: Mike had said to me something along the lines of, well,
Speaker 3: you know, I felt like saying to Chris, like, yeah,
Speaker 3: of course he didn't get the job.
Speaker 4: It's a huge job.
Speaker 3: You have to learn how to do it. It takes
Speaker 3: a while to to put the skins in the wall
Speaker 3: to get a job like that. And you know, I
Speaker 3: think that's sort of the approach he took to climbing
Speaker 3: the ladder. And you know, I think a lot of
Speaker 3: people felt like once he went back to Columbus he
Speaker 3: would never leave, you know, but he he winds up
Speaker 3: spending three years there. Then a Bill O'Brien comes and
Speaker 3: gets him. Bill O'Brien had tried to get him a
Speaker 3: Penn state, and you know, I think there was some
Speaker 3: loyalty to O'Brien. He gets to see the way that
Speaker 3: system work, and then he gets for his own ship.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I think going through working in college, seeing
Speaker 3: the way Ervin Meyer ran a program, seeing the way
Speaker 3: Bill O'Brien ran.
Speaker 4: A program, gatting the chance for on his own program, and.
Speaker 3: Then this year going back and getting to see kemic
Speaker 3: Stepanski and Andrew.
Speaker 4: Berry do it a completely different way than what he
Speaker 4: had learned.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think gives him a good, you know, a
Speaker 3: good on a spectrum.
Speaker 4: Of experience to draw them.
Speaker 3: And you know, I think it's some of the job now.
Speaker 3: I think that the mistake the Patriots can make here
Speaker 3: is again they think this is a one person problem
Speaker 3: because it was. And I think that's some fair to
Speaker 3: drive Mayo to look at it that way. I think
Speaker 3: it's whistling by the graveyard if you're the team and
Speaker 3: you know it's The one concern I have with the
Speaker 3: hire is that you didn't go through a full process.
Speaker 3: So how much looking in the mirror did you really
Speaker 3: do when you went and brought back a guy who's
Speaker 3: from your quote unquote family, your football family show, without
Speaker 3: running much of a certain That's the one concern Gary
Speaker 3: is like, are they just identifying this as a one
Speaker 3: person problem and Mike Frabel is going to come in
Speaker 3: and fix everything up? That's the way they were looking
Speaker 3: at it that I think they got another thing coming.
Speaker 1: Well, I agree with you, and it's a whole rebuild.
Speaker 1: They have the quarterback and they have a cornerback and
Speaker 1: that's that's about it right now. So have you been
Speaker 1: able to pinpoint the structure of the team is now?
Speaker 2: Wolf has to be out. I mean he has to
Speaker 2: be right.
Speaker 3: I mean no, see, I I don't think so, and
Speaker 3: I I think they have a few months to figure
Speaker 3: this out. But I mean we will say. I know
Speaker 3: for a fact, Mike's done his research on Elliott. You
Speaker 3: know he's they have, you know, common friends. There's one
Speaker 3: in Tennessee, Chad Brinkers his name, he's the president of
Speaker 3: football operations there. He came up in the business with
Speaker 3: Elliott in Green Bay, and Mike and Chad, both Ohio guys,
Speaker 3: worked together in Tennessee for a year, so there are
Speaker 3: some common connections there, and you know, look like the
Speaker 3: jobs big for one person, you know.
Speaker 2: So the call I mean that I agree with.
Speaker 4: You think it's Mike. No, I think I think it's Mike.
Speaker 3: I think but but but here's where here's where I
Speaker 3: think you make you can make a mistake very easily,
Speaker 3: is thinking it's.
Speaker 4: Going back to being the way it wasn't a built
Speaker 4: because that.
Speaker 3: Doesn't really exist anywhere anymore. Like where I mean Bill
Speaker 3: was like running in season while he you know, like
Speaker 3: he'd be he'd he'd be with the scouts on Friday mornings,
Speaker 3: on a Friday morning, looking at like the tight ends
Speaker 3: in the next year's draft. You know, he was trying
Speaker 3: to wear all hats Bill was. Mike's not going to
Speaker 3: do that, you know what I mean, Like, and you
Speaker 3: can't ask the coach to do that in this day
Speaker 3: and age. The job is just too big and so
Speaker 3: it won't be set up that way. But I do
Speaker 3: think Mike is going to have, you know, a very
Speaker 3: big say in personnel, and I think it's going to
Speaker 3: be set up the way some of the more coach
Speaker 3: centric structures across the NFL are. Again like it's you know,
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that he's going to be setting the
Speaker 3: draft board or breaking down four hundred college players, you know,
Speaker 3: but obviously he's gonna be very influential in the way
Speaker 3: that Elliott Wolf in that department look at things, and
Speaker 3: and Ryan cavan is going to be a voice for
Speaker 3: him in that department as well.
Speaker 1: Well, that's good to hear because and by the way,
Speaker 1: Burbrew was with us some Sports Illustrated talking about the
Speaker 1: Patriots and Rabel because you just long, this by committee
Speaker 1: stuff doesn't work, you know where and again I don't
Speaker 1: know what was going on with your Rod, but there's
Speaker 1: all kinds of rumors like he was meeting with ownership
Speaker 1: during the week and then you know, was he in
Speaker 1: charge of the offense? Was the offense on their own page?
Speaker 1: All of these things that it was, you know, a
Speaker 1: democratic society and it doesn't work.
Speaker 2: I mean, well, you know you have to say that, you.
Speaker 3: Can say, you can say that, but like look at Baltimore,
Speaker 3: look at Pittsburgh. You know, there are there are situations
Speaker 3: where it does work, like that you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, give me an example of Burt, Like I say,
Speaker 1: Baltimore and for Baltimore Pittsburgh. If there's a disagreement on
Speaker 1: picking the player, who makes.
Speaker 3: Somebody has to have the trigger, somebody who.
Speaker 2: Has the trigger. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 3: But it's not like nobody had the trigger last year.
Speaker 3: You know, Elliott had the trigger last year. So like
Speaker 3: I'm not like I I I think like again, like
Speaker 3: we're talking about two different things here, like we're you
Speaker 3: know again, like these jobs are just too big now, Gary, you.
Speaker 2: Know I get it.
Speaker 1: No, Bird, Bird, I hear you. I just want to
Speaker 1: make you know. It's just like I just once, I'm like,
Speaker 1: okay o, they we'll push the players. He determines the players,
Speaker 1: He sets the roster, Mike takes a rockster, and he
Speaker 1: goes long as long as the responsibilities are determined, so
Speaker 1: nobody's getting pissed at each other and you don't have
Speaker 1: these little fiefdoms within the building. That's all I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that and that's let me look by my
Speaker 3: experienceiest way you avoid that is to win, because there's
Speaker 3: not a lot of fingerpointing when winning how.
Speaker 2: Many how many years? Bert? What do you think? How
Speaker 2: many years do you give years? I say three?
Speaker 3: Anyways, I think I think, like you know, by by
Speaker 3: twenty twenty six, you want to be in the playoffs, yes,
Speaker 3: And I think you have to give him some grace
Speaker 3: this year because I do think like and I know
Speaker 3: a lot of people have looked at and said, well,
Speaker 3: you can just spend one hundred and whatever million dollars
Speaker 3: in free agency and fix everything. I actually, I actually
Speaker 3: think there's going to be some subtraction here too. Like
Speaker 3: I think, you know, everybody talks about addition. I think
Speaker 3: there's some degree they've done, like what a message has
Speaker 3: been the last couple of years. Mike's gonna be weeding
Speaker 3: some players out too, you know, so you have you
Speaker 3: may have some holes on the roster in three months
Speaker 3: that you don't that don't exist right now. In other words, like, yes,
Speaker 3: you're adding, but you're also gonna be subtracting in some areas,
Speaker 3: and so to some degree you might be triding water.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I think you know you're looking for this year. I
Speaker 3: think some level of improvement, and I think you want
Speaker 3: the team to be getting better by the end of
Speaker 3: the year, and I think, you know, you get to
Speaker 3: December January, and now you're starting to see what the
Speaker 3: team's going to become when they're really good, and then
Speaker 3: you feel like you're going into twenty twenty sixth fine,
Speaker 3: you know, I don't think all six and eleven or
Speaker 3: seven in ten seasons are created the same, but I
Speaker 3: think if they're in that in that range and it
Speaker 3: looks like they're ascending at the end of the year,
Speaker 3: then I think you can you can live with that,
Speaker 3: you know, well, you can't live with I think. And
Speaker 3: the problem for Jiro was at the end of the year,
Speaker 3: there was really no light at the end of.
Speaker 4: The tunnel, you know.
Speaker 3: And I think like if you look at some of
Speaker 3: the teams that were bad over the last few years
Speaker 3: that had new coaches that were figuring it out, Like
Speaker 3: I'd even look at that Arizona team. They were not
Speaker 3: very good last year, but the last month of the
Speaker 3: season they beat Pittsburgh and Philly, so you started to
Speaker 3: see what Jonathan Gannon was building. And then the next
Speaker 3: year they're close to five hundred, you know, Detroit, like
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty one, they started I think it was
Speaker 3: like I think it was ten and one, and they
Speaker 3: finished the season three and three. Now you're still three
Speaker 3: thirteen to one, but you see a little light at
Speaker 3: the end of the tunnel. I think that that's what
Speaker 3: Mike's gotta get the team, give the franchise, fan base,
Speaker 3: everything else by the end of the year.
Speaker 2: Burt, can you hang on or you just get a
Speaker 2: few more questions for you?
Speaker 4: Yep?
Speaker 1: All right, thanks, Bert bur joins our Sports Illustrated. We're
Speaker 1: back after this in wbz's Nightside. Now back to Dan
Speaker 1: Ray live from the Window World Nightside Studios on WBZ
Speaker 1: News Radio Sports Illustratings with us in the next few minutes. Here, Bert,
Speaker 1: thanks for hanging in. Okay, I watched all of the
Speaker 1: press conferences from Foxborough, where you know, Vrabel comes walking
Speaker 1: out and goes, hey, Roachie, you know, and just so
Speaker 1: it's not so inside baseball when Mike was here. Mike
Speaker 1: used to bust our chops in the media constantly. There
Speaker 1: was nobody better at it. He was great at it.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes he was really pissed off and other
Speaker 1: times he was just you know, you know, joking around.
Speaker 1: We did one bit on NBC Sports Boss and it
Speaker 1: was Comcast Sports and at the time where I put
Speaker 1: on a helmet and he like bull rushed me, and
Speaker 1: I mean he barely moved. He sent me twenty five
Speaker 1: yards down the field and it hurt. But I want
Speaker 1: to tell him that the honeymoon period's going to end quickly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know that's does he get that? Like it's
Speaker 2: not you know, it's not going to be easy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a popular higher of course, you know. I
Speaker 3: think that again, Like it's weird because I don't know
Speaker 3: that like anybody should expect some sort of magic turnaround here,
Speaker 3: But I think there are like little things that you
Speaker 3: can have as your expectations, right, Like, so whoever he
Speaker 3: chooses to be the offensive coordinator the quarterbacks coach, like
Speaker 3: I think you should you should reasonably expect some improvement
Speaker 3: from Drake May. And like you know, it's like Bill
Speaker 3: would say, like the biggest improvement players between year one
Speaker 3: and year two. Okay, Like, so what does that look
Speaker 3: like with Drake May? And what did Drake May look
Speaker 3: like going into going into twenty twenty five and coming
Speaker 3: out of twenty twenty five? Does the defense look like
Speaker 3: it's playing with some identity? This Christian Zalid fuck he's developed?
Speaker 3: What do they do at receiver?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: Have they hit on a couple of receivers? Is a
Speaker 3: tackle situation look a little bit better? So, you know,
Speaker 3: I think that there are things that like, I think
Speaker 3: there are things that we can identify as problems that
Speaker 3: you would hope that like would start to show the
Speaker 3: signs of being fixed. And then and not that you
Speaker 3: can be.
Speaker 4: Able to fix.
Speaker 3: All the biggest issues with Patriots have is that so
Speaker 3: they have so many holes that happened to be at
Speaker 3: premium positions. It's really hard to fix all of those
Speaker 3: that wouldn't want to fell swoop, you know. And then
Speaker 3: I think the development of young players is going to
Speaker 3: be really important because you know, when he when he
Speaker 3: walked into Tennessee, he did sort of have already made team,
Speaker 3: you know, and that team had been in the playoffs
Speaker 3: the year before. Dave de Parker Murray at running back,
Speaker 3: Dereck Henry was the back of the time. I believe
Speaker 3: Thede Marcus Mariotto was a young veteran at the time,
Speaker 3: you know, So you had some pieces in place that
Speaker 3: Kevin Byron was there in the secondary, and they had
Speaker 3: they they had been a pretty good team the two
Speaker 3: years previous hundered by ball Arkey. This team's behind where
Speaker 3: that team was. Like, let's see, like we'll how the
Speaker 3: young players are developing, Let's see how if the problems
Speaker 3: are starting to be fixed. I think that's how you'll
Speaker 3: be able to judge him in the year one. And
Speaker 3: you know, I think where the honeymoon ends is if
Speaker 3: you know those things, if you don't see some of
Speaker 3: those things happening, regardless.
Speaker 4: Of whether or not a teams you know, more wins
Speaker 4: than the.
Speaker 2: Scoreboard, does Josh become the O C.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's possible. You know, Josh gonna have
Speaker 3: a lot of interest, and there are gonna be teams
Speaker 3: that are gonna lose their offensive coordinators for good reasons,
Speaker 3: right like you know your destroys your Buffalo is Like
Speaker 3: there'd be teams like that that are gonna lose their
Speaker 3: offensive coordinators that I think will have an interest in Josh.
Speaker 3: So there could be an opportunity for Josh to go
Speaker 3: and join a winner. You then they're gonna be I think,
Speaker 3: you know, other opportunities for Josh with first time head
Speaker 3: coaches or new head coaches going into places that that
Speaker 3: that they.
Speaker 4: Would have Josh on their list.
Speaker 3: So I think he's gonna have opportunity in different places.
Speaker 3: And you know, I like I. I certainly think like
Speaker 3: the New England is something he consider, But I don't
Speaker 3: think it's the only possibility for him, you know, and
Speaker 3: and and and I do think this undergreen Mike has
Speaker 3: in the past at least leaned in different directions offensively.
Speaker 3: So you know, how does he how does he see
Speaker 3: Josh versus somebody who comes from the sort of west
Speaker 3: coast system that we we saw him run and we saw.
Speaker 4: Him oversea, at least in Tennessee.
Speaker 3: I think that's another interesting question to ask.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the final thing here, Bert, I just heard it
Speaker 1: was reported that Belichick had not signed his University of
Speaker 1: North Carolina contract.
Speaker 2: Yep, what's going on.
Speaker 3: Not unusual, So they have I think it's I think
Speaker 3: it's I think it's called a memory memorandum of understanding
Speaker 3: that is more or less the term sheets. A long
Speaker 3: perform contract hasn't been done yet. For context, this happened
Speaker 3: in Michigan last year when Shrown Moore took the job
Speaker 3: from Jim Harbor. I don't he look this up. I
Speaker 3: don't think that contract was signed until September or October.
Speaker 3: So obviously the question then is whether or not the
Speaker 3: ten million dollar buyout applies. And I'm not going to
Speaker 3: pretend that I'm smart enough to understand a contract well enough.
Speaker 4: To know whether it does. There could be some dispute
Speaker 4: over that though.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I never wondered does he get hide
Speaker 2: by like the Bears or.
Speaker 3: I mean, here's the thing, though, like, I think if
Speaker 3: that was going to happen, I think, just from a
Speaker 3: timing standpoint, and like like Bill, I don't think Bill's
Speaker 3: going to go run off an interview with somebody, now, Okay,
Speaker 3: it would kill him. It would kill him in recruiting, right,
Speaker 3: which is like the lifeblood of building a college football team,
Speaker 3: And I'd imagine it wouldn't go over well with his
Speaker 3: new bosses. So I like, because of that, Gary, at
Speaker 3: least at this point, it's hard for me to see
Speaker 3: it happening unless someone just blindly comes in and flat
Speaker 3: out and offers him the job. And that doesn't happen
Speaker 3: very often in the NFL, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: where there's no vetting and there's no sit sit down
Speaker 3: and meet and great and all that different stuff. So
Speaker 3: I think at this point, like could it happened, I guess,
Speaker 3: but you know it would take a pretty rare circumstance
Speaker 3: where somebody just comes in and offers him the job.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know whether or not that happens.
Speaker 4: I would think probably not, but I've seen crazy. Bert.
Speaker 2: I owe you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for hanging out and talking to me, but
Speaker 1: best of your family. Hope everybody's good and we'll talk soon.
Speaker 3: Do you too, Gary, appreciate you having no more problem.
Speaker 1: Burt Brier one of the good ones, Albert Breer. Albert
Speaker 1: Breer is official byline. As Rob Brooks asked me, do
Speaker 1: we put on the document out? I said, yes, you
Speaker 1: put Albert Breer. Tom Currne only want to call them Albert.
Speaker 1: I think even his mother.
Speaker 2: Still calls them Bert. So Burt Breer on what's going.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you that it's going to be interesting to
Speaker 1: see what happens with the Rabes.
Speaker 2: Thanks get ugly.
Speaker 1: The media doesn't turn on you, the media does your job.
Speaker 1: Then we'll see how that goes. Karen Miller is going
Speaker 1: to join US Boston Globe. Where are all the teachers going?
Speaker 1: Better paying jobs, probably less headaches, probably more support. Probably
Speaker 1: Sam Medler and what's going on in California with the
Speaker 1: wildfires and the weak in trump Land. It's all coming
Speaker 1: up right here on wbz's Nightside.