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<v Speaker 1>In Florida, the Satanic Temple is stepping up to fill

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<v Speaker 1>Google council roles after a new law sign by Governor

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<v Speaker 1>n DeSantis allow religious chaplains to a public school. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>you heard that right. It seems the devil is in

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<v Speaker 1>the details, quite literal. Lucian Greeves, Co's founder of the

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<v Speaker 1>Satanic Temple, argues that excluding them defy the First Amendment,

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<v Speaker 1>while DeSantis insists Satanism isn't a religious So grab your

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<v Speaker 1>popcorn and suspend your belief as we explore this unexpected

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<v Speaker 1>twist in the ongoing debate over religious freedom of public

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<v Speaker 1>let's get into it. The story is from the Hill

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<v Speaker 1>by lexilonis published July eighth, twenty twenty. So, parent, I

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<v Speaker 1>want to ask you, when we're considering constitutional rights and

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<v Speaker 1>religious freedom, what are the implications of allowing religious chaplains,

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<v Speaker 1>including those from non Christian faithed like Sactany, in the

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<v Speaker 1>public school setting.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, children are very susceptible. They're like little sponges.

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<v Speaker 2>They believe leave what they are told and by trusted adults.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a reason miners have there's laws around miners and

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<v Speaker 2>age of consent and things like that because it's really

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<v Speaker 2>really easy to take advantage of kids, whether you intend

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<v Speaker 2>to or not. And so it's what we teach our

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<v Speaker 2>kids is really important because whatever you teach them, it

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<v Speaker 2>is indoctrination because they are not old enough to know

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<v Speaker 2>if they're being indoctrinate or not. They haven't their brains

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<v Speaker 2>aren't developed yet. So we have to be really, really careful.

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<v Speaker 2>And so if we start introducing chaplains in schools, children

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<v Speaker 2>are going to see that as oh, this religion is right,

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<v Speaker 2>this person's religion is correct, and I should follow that religion.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's not something we want to indoctrinate our kids with.

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<v Speaker 2>Indoctrinate our kids with. We want to indoctrinate our kids

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<v Speaker 2>with the ability to think critically, to think skeptically, to

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<v Speaker 2>understand human biases and how to use the scientificific method

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<v Speaker 2>to get around our biases, and to understand the way

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<v Speaker 2>the world works rather than the way our brains think

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<v Speaker 2>it works. Those are the things that we should be

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<v Speaker 2>teaching our kids, how to find jobs and all that

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<v Speaker 2>good stuff. But we should not have religious people in schools.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just that's not the right place for it. If

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<v Speaker 2>you want to doctor your kids with religion, do it

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<v Speaker 2>on your own time, do it on Sunday, do it

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<v Speaker 2>in church, but don't do it in school. We're paying

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<v Speaker 2>for school as taxpayers, and having religion in school it

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<v Speaker 2>favors one religion over another. And what if I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>your religion. I don't want my money going towards those

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<v Speaker 2>kinds of services. Even though in this case there's no

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<v Speaker 2>money being spent because the chaplains have to be volunteers,

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<v Speaker 2>they can't be paid. But I think my point still stands.

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<v Speaker 1>That's fair, that's fair. And I want to ask you, Tao.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that you talked about a little bit about

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<v Speaker 1>your experience with especially like since we're talking about the

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<v Speaker 1>possibility of having Satani's clergy in public school, you want

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<v Speaker 1>to tell you a little bit more.

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<v Speaker 3>I have an interesting story about those guys. Actually, the

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<v Speaker 3>first time that I read about them, I really this

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<v Speaker 3>slight the idea because I saw them as a counterpart

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<v Speaker 3>to religion, which they actually are. But I was checking

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<v Speaker 3>that they have their own tenants, they have their own

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<v Speaker 3>leaders or stuff like that, and I was like, dude,

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<v Speaker 3>did you really leave your religion to join another paramiter scheme?

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<v Speaker 3>But now actually they just do this one to mock

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<v Speaker 3>religion and to because they having all of that, they

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<v Speaker 3>can legally be a religion despite them being all or

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<v Speaker 3>most of them atheists. I work with some with many

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<v Speaker 3>Satanists nowadays. Some of them are cool people, others are assholes,

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<v Speaker 3>So it depends on the person. But I called them

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<v Speaker 3>a tacles of religion because they dress themselves as religious

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<v Speaker 3>people just to fight against religion, which I think is

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<v Speaker 3>amazing and it is something that is actually needed because

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<v Speaker 3>they show their religious people why there should be no

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<v Speaker 3>religion with special privileges. I mean, you think it would

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<v Speaker 3>be enough telling them, hey, look what is happening in

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<v Speaker 3>the middle is over there, there are religions that have

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<v Speaker 3>the power, but apparently know they see not and they

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<v Speaker 3>want that but with the religion version, with the Christian

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<v Speaker 3>version instead over here. So when you have the sudden

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<v Speaker 3>ext temple that they dress as Satanic people, that they

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<v Speaker 3>go with their prayers. I remember when they were fighting

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<v Speaker 3>to have their own prayers instead of the Christian ones

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<v Speaker 3>at the beginning of what was it do when you

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<v Speaker 3>have judges and all of that, Well those things Christians

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<v Speaker 3>were screaming and they were very anxious because I know

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<v Speaker 3>they are using real words, they are cursing us because

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<v Speaker 3>they believe that the religion is kind of true and

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<v Speaker 3>all the magical stuff is real. So having those groups

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<v Speaker 3>telling people, ay, you cannot go and put your monuments

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<v Speaker 3>wherever you want, because in that case we can do

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<v Speaker 3>the same, and we have bafflement that is something that

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<v Speaker 3>you hate and name them, realize, yeah, maybe we do

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<v Speaker 3>need a separation so that these evil people that we

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<v Speaker 3>don't like don't do whatever they want in the same

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<v Speaker 3>way that we do it. And I think that what

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<v Speaker 3>they are doing is something necessary and good for them.

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<v Speaker 3>Good for them, I hear that. I hear that.

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<v Speaker 1>So, Kiera, I was curious to get your thoughts. Governor

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<v Speaker 1>DeSantis describes Satan as not and excluded its members from

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<v Speaker 1>participating in the Chapin program. So how should governments navigate

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<v Speaker 1>the inclusion of diverse religious practice in publicans it's while

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<v Speaker 1>ensuring fairness and constitutional compliant.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, that's a great question. I think I'll answer the

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<v Speaker 4>second part of your question. First. I think the best

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<v Speaker 4>way to navigate that is to not make attempts to

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<v Speaker 4>implement or favor one religious belief or group over another.

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<v Speaker 4>The further that government organizations and policies can stay away

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<v Speaker 4>from religion the better. That is my understanding of the

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<v Speaker 4>law in most cases. But as far as being able

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<v Speaker 4>to say, well, this is a religion and that is

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<v Speaker 4>not a religion, that that is a legal question that

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<v Speaker 4>has come up, there is legal precedent that it's a

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<v Speaker 4>little bit murky. I think one of the ways that

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<v Speaker 4>it's been defined is something as a religion if it

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<v Speaker 4>functions as a religion to the person who is practicing it, So,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, by by that definition, I think certainly Satanism

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<v Speaker 4>and the Satanic Temple would would obviously fall under that definition,

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<v Speaker 4>and and I think under most others that are commonly

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<v Speaker 4>used when we're talking about you know, sincerely held beliefs

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<v Speaker 4>about issues of ultimate concern, people's beliefs about you know,

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<v Speaker 4>questions of meaning of life, death and so on. And

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<v Speaker 4>there is absolutely no precedent for suggesting that something is

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<v Speaker 4>not religious because it is not theistic. That is certainly

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<v Speaker 4>not the case. There are plenty of non theistic religions

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<v Speaker 4>besides the Satanic Temple, Buddhism, Taoism, that that is not

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<v Speaker 4>an excluding factor. So I think it is actually fairly

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<v Speaker 4>an absurd claim to dismiss out of hand the Satanic

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<v Speaker 4>Temple as not a religious group. I think that anyone

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<v Speaker 4>making that claim is going to have a difficult road

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<v Speaker 4>ahead of them. And the problem with that is that

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<v Speaker 4>it I think it reveals the motivation here, which is

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<v Speaker 4>not to introduce a program where children can have access

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<v Speaker 4>to chaplains who represent them or are going to be

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<v Speaker 4>reflecting their beliefs, but rather, I think this is intentionally

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<v Speaker 4>trying to institute a program where certain religious beliefs and

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<v Speaker 4>representatives of certain religious faiths are going to be allowed

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<v Speaker 4>in and not others. That that has been explicitly stated

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<v Speaker 4>by these remarks, and you know, the problem with that

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<v Speaker 4>is that that is illegal. Did that answer your question?

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<v Speaker 3>It did?

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<v Speaker 1>It did, And I kind of just wanted to just

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<v Speaker 1>interject that the only entities definition of that matter about

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<v Speaker 1>what is considered a really regions IRA reason being is

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<v Speaker 1>because the IRS, through like legal tax code, has there's

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<v Speaker 1>laws in place basically on how you're supposed to treat

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<v Speaker 1>religious organizations, specifically in the United States, and according to

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<v Speaker 1>the IRS, what constitutes as a religion is a religious

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<v Speaker 1>organization may be properly characterized as a church. The service

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<v Speaker 1>considers whether the organization has the following characteristic a distinct

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<v Speaker 1>legal existence, a recognized creed and form of worship, and

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<v Speaker 1>a definite and distinct ecclesiastical tenet. And if you really

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<v Speaker 1>look at the Satanic Temple, they have all of those things.

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<v Speaker 1>So who's to say that they are not a religion? Now,

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<v Speaker 1>whether if you agree with the existence the tenants the

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<v Speaker 1>practices of religion is one thing, but that's very subject.

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<v Speaker 1>If there are specific definition that will constitute a religion

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<v Speaker 1>organization a church person in order for this organization to

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<v Speaker 1>exist and be able to live under that particular tax

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<v Speaker 1>code is not up to you. It's not up to I,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's not up to the same It's up to

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<v Speaker 1>Dirra and those laws have our replaced. So Eric, I

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<v Speaker 1>want to know from you what are the potential benefit

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<v Speaker 1>and drawbacks of introducing chaplains from various religious backgrounds into

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<v Speaker 1>public schools. I know you talked about indoctrination and kids

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<v Speaker 1>not necessarily having the wherewithal too even tell if they've

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<v Speaker 1>been in doctor or I. So, do you happen to

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<v Speaker 1>see a drawback from this? Do you see a benefit

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<v Speaker 1>from this and why or why not?

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<v Speaker 2>I think I don't really see a benefit here. I

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<v Speaker 2>think this is a way of sneaking religion into schools.

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<v Speaker 2>The people that are when you do you get to

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<v Speaker 2>be a volunteer. You don't get paid. So there are

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<v Speaker 2>certain rules. If you look at the of the house

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<v Speaker 2>built Housbald nine thirty one, it requires these volunteers to

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<v Speaker 2>pass the background check. Students have to have written permission

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<v Speaker 2>from their parents to engage with the chaplain. The school

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<v Speaker 2>has to publish a list of the chaplains and the

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<v Speaker 2>religious affiliations to the school's website. And that's probably just

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<v Speaker 2>to make sure that you're sending your kid to the

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<v Speaker 2>right to the right Christian chaplain. And each district has

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<v Speaker 2>to have a prescribed way that chaplains will be used

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<v Speaker 2>to support for support services or programs. They have to

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<v Speaker 2>define how chaplains are going to be used. But even

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<v Speaker 2>giving all those you know on the services all that's fine.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, there seems to be some kind of restrictions.

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<v Speaker 2>But bs, this is just a way of getting of

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<v Speaker 2>getting religion in schools. This is just a way of

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<v Speaker 2>getting people to preach Jesus, preach to Abraham of God

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<v Speaker 2>at schools. If somebody wanted to send an Islamic preacher

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<v Speaker 2>to the schools. Yeah, that's not probably not going to happen.

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<v Speaker 2>This is definitely a Christian thing. And like I said earlier,

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<v Speaker 2>what if people really want if they're trying to solve

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<v Speaker 2>a problem, like, let's let's let's let's strong man their

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<v Speaker 2>reason why we need kids need help in school? Right,

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<v Speaker 2>kids need chaplain, they need guidance. Well, then why don't

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<v Speaker 2>you give them money so they can hire counselors. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>that's that's solving the problem in a non religious, in

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<v Speaker 2>a secular way. Let's solve the real problem. And why

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<v Speaker 2>don't you fund schools. Why don't you give teachers, pay

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<v Speaker 2>teachers better? Why don't you give teachers better budgets so

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<v Speaker 2>they can have better lessons and have better equipment and

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<v Speaker 2>reduce class sizes and all that stuff. This is on

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<v Speaker 2>the service. It seems like, oh, we're trying to help students,

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<v Speaker 2>but they're not. Really, they're not doing anything that would

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<v Speaker 2>actually help in any measure way students in any way.

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<v Speaker 2>If they really wanted to help students, they would get

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<v Speaker 2>licensed therapists, licensed counselors into schools that nobody would have

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<v Speaker 2>any problem with kids engaging. And you wouldn't need parent signatures.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, Aarin, you almost talk like people who are

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<v Speaker 1>making this stuff up have sense. But Kara, I want

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<v Speaker 1>to know from you. The Satanic Temple itself actually claims

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<v Speaker 1>that Florida law is allowing connect them. Right, you're saying like,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're going to have like chaplains insides that you

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<v Speaker 1>have to inclose all organizations that have to exist, them

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<v Speaker 1>being one of them. So how should states balance the

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<v Speaker 1>rights of religious minority with public sentiment and legal precedent

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<v Speaker 1>regarding the establishment.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I think there's a really easy way to do that,

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<v Speaker 4>and that is to not introduce programs like these into schools.

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<v Speaker 4>Just don't do it.

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<v Speaker 3>You said, what, right?

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, that's almost too simple. If you don't want

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<v Speaker 4>to have to compete with other religious beliefs that contradict

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<v Speaker 4>your own, don't try and introduce your own. Then you

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<v Speaker 4>won't have a problem. You know, people can practice whatever

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<v Speaker 4>they want to at home, people can practice whatever they

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<v Speaker 4>want to in public. But when you start introducing it

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<v Speaker 4>as part of the public schools system or some other

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<v Speaker 4>government run event, now you're sanctioning one set of beliefs

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<v Speaker 4>that may be directly in conflict with someone else's And

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<v Speaker 4>that's the reason for the problem. It's not just that, oh,

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<v Speaker 4>I want to have the right to express my beliefs,

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<v Speaker 4>will you do? What you don't have the right to

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<v Speaker 4>do is express your beliefs over and above and on

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<v Speaker 4>top of everyone else's and condemn and forbid other people

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<v Speaker 4>from having their other beliefs, which is what this kind

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<v Speaker 4>of thing functionally does. So yeah, the really easy way

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<v Speaker 4>to avoid that problem is to not do it again.

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<v Speaker 1>Like Aaron Kara, you act like the people who are

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<v Speaker 1>introducing these things have sense. But TAYO want to know

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<v Speaker 1>from you what states actually increasingly considering legislation to introduce

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<v Speaker 1>religious teachings like the Bible. I believe that Ryan Walters

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to make the Bible in Oklahoma's public heart of

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<v Speaker 1>the lesson plans like you have to do. And then

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<v Speaker 1>also too, we have the case in Louisiana with the

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<v Speaker 1>Ten Commandments, have been having to go into every public

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<v Speaker 1>school class stating from the governor that if you want

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about the law, you must first give credence

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<v Speaker 1>to the lawgiver.

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<v Speaker 2>And don't forget Texas, Yes, and there curriculum that comes

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<v Speaker 2>from the Bible based curriculum that they're paying school districts

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<v Speaker 2>to roll out.

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<v Speaker 1>M you know, you can never not talk about Texas,

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<v Speaker 1>especially on this shows. Don't mess with Texas. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm curious to oh, you know, I know that you

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<v Speaker 1>are in Latin America, but how should states actually balance

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<v Speaker 1>the rights of religious minorities with public with the public

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<v Speaker 1>and make sure that they're actually, you know, being more

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<v Speaker 1>inclusive when it comes to you know, those who happen

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<v Speaker 1>to have a religious background and those who don't have

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<v Speaker 1>a religious backgage.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I was going to say, you're asking the Latin

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<v Speaker 3>guy to talk about the USA. I think that what

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<v Speaker 3>you're asking is in general, how this could be sold,

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<v Speaker 3>because this could help all countries all over the world.

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<v Speaker 3>And actually there is a very simple solution. Get atheists

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<v Speaker 3>to teach this, Get anyone who doesn't have a specific

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<v Speaker 3>religion teaching about all religions in the same way. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think that, yeah, it would be great to have

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<v Speaker 3>every single child learning about all religions in the same

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<v Speaker 3>way that they should learn as myths that some people

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<v Speaker 3>believe to be true. And you should get somebody who

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<v Speaker 3>is clearly not going to say and this is the

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<v Speaker 3>only real religion. No, an atheist, we believe that all

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<v Speaker 3>religions are fairy tale, so we're going to be fair

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<v Speaker 3>to all of them, and we're going to say, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I must believe that Allah is the only God that

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<v Speaker 3>has no children. But Christians believe that Jesus is the

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<v Speaker 3>son of God. So therefore that is a contradiction. But

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<v Speaker 3>they are both based on the same God from the

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<v Speaker 3>Abrahamic religion. And then you can talk about Abraham and

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<v Speaker 3>the stuff that they believe back then, about Babylon, Babylon

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<v Speaker 3>and you know, all those myths that have been dragging

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<v Speaker 3>until nowadays. And yeah, that's how you get people who

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<v Speaker 3>know about religion and who realizes that a So, what

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<v Speaker 3>my parents believe is not the only thing that people

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<v Speaker 3>believe out there. There are other things other that makes

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<v Speaker 3>more sense or even less sense, and that would be

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<v Speaker 3>great for every teenager out there, according to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah you know, I so, guys, I just did like

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<v Speaker 1>a quick ask of my residential AI specifically, what in

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<v Speaker 1>the world are the responsibilities of a school chap like,

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<v Speaker 1>what specifically are they to do? Even though this is

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<v Speaker 1>a voluntary position according to the law that we should

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<v Speaker 1>sign into and sign by the santas.

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<v Speaker 3>Like what why why?

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<v Speaker 1>Like what are the wise behind the chaplains?

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<v Speaker 4>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>And according to my AI, it said that the school

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<v Speaker 1>chaplain's responsibilities can vary depending on this, but they generally

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<v Speaker 1>support the social, emotional, mental, and spiritual well built being

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<v Speaker 1>of students and the school community. And one of the

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<v Speaker 1>things that I wanted to read specifically the portions that

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<v Speaker 1>it talked about for religious pastoral care and also student advice.

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<v Speaker 1>So according to this, it says that chaplains can provide

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<v Speaker 1>counseling and engaged students and structured programs to help with

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<v Speaker 1>self esteem, build confident, and develop skills in relationships. And

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<v Speaker 1>they can also help students deal with issues like family conflict, anxiety, anger, bullying, grief,

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<v Speaker 1>and law. And then another one I found very interesting

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to student advising, said that chaplains can

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<v Speaker 1>meet with individual students and run small group programs on

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<v Speaker 1>topics like resilience, friendship, and anger. Oh and one more

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<v Speaker 1>thing is said too it has other responsibilities. It says

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<v Speaker 1>that chaplains may also coach land retreat and be visible

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<v Speaker 1>safe adult during break time. So my question to all

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<v Speaker 1>of and and and you know this this a quick

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<v Speaker 1>response I'm going to start from Kara, than Tail, than Aaron.

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<v Speaker 1>Does this really mean that a chaplain in this case,

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<v Speaker 1>when we're looking at their responsibilities in their in the

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<v Speaker 1>things that they are expect and their expectation, does this

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<v Speaker 1>have to be a religious position?

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<v Speaker 4>Kara oh, I don't think it does. That description certainly

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<v Speaker 4>doesn't have to be religious. Really, there wasn't much religious

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<v Speaker 4>about that description. I think this is a way to

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<v Speaker 4>smuggle religion in and create a situation where you can

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<v Speaker 4>have chaplains who come from If all of the chaplains

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<v Speaker 4>come from a very particular spiritual belief system, that may

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<v Speaker 4>seep into these other services that they're providing. But if,

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<v Speaker 4>on the other hand, chaplains are coming from all different

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<v Speaker 4>backgrounds and belief systems secular, Humanist, Satanist, a Christian, Muslim, Jewish,

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<v Speaker 4>whatever else, then children could go to whicheverone suited them.

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<v Speaker 4>But I think the main difference is that it's whether

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<v Speaker 4>or not you create a situation where a certain spiritual

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<v Speaker 4>worldview is sneaking in or not.

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<v Speaker 1>What about you, Tevy, what do you think?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, what you mentioned is a consulor that's not our

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<v Speaker 3>religious position. If you have somebody there you actually want

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<v Speaker 3>somebody who is a secure as possible, because trust me,

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<v Speaker 3>there is nothing worse than telling somebody I have a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of problems. H do you pray? No, I don't

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<v Speaker 3>believe in any guy. Don't worry. We'll pray for you.

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<v Speaker 3>That's the shittiest answer that you can get, and subtly

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<v Speaker 3>is the most common one that you're going to get.

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<v Speaker 3>And if you have a chaplain that is going to

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<v Speaker 3>be there for you to answer your your questions, you're

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<v Speaker 3>not going to get real help. You're just going to

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<v Speaker 3>get a religious propagandan. That's it.

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<v Speaker 1>I agree, and we're given the last word to Aaron.

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<v Speaker 3>What say you?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a reason you can't get a license to

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<v Speaker 2>be a therapist or council just just because you're Christian

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<v Speaker 2>or Jewish or Islamic. They just don't do it. You

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<v Speaker 2>have to go and get training. When you're reading off

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<v Speaker 2>that list of you know what chaplains do? In my head,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking a Christian chaplain doing that.

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<v Speaker 3>I knows it.

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<v Speaker 2>You know Christianity. I grew up Christian and they teach

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<v Speaker 2>you that you're a sinner. You know that you're by

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<v Speaker 2>default that you're broken, and that you're awful and that

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<v Speaker 2>you need Jesus, and they use you know, many people

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<v Speaker 2>point out it's kind of abusive language, like you're only

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<v Speaker 2>good if Jesus is in your life, and chaplains that's

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<v Speaker 2>that's what they're if you let them in a school

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<v Speaker 2>when they help people, that's what they're going to do

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<v Speaker 2>because that's what they know. They're going to teach you

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<v Speaker 2>about Jesus and that you're awful and that you need Jesus.

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<v Speaker 2>And and that's not what we need. What we need

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<v Speaker 2>is evidence based help for kids to help them manage

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<v Speaker 2>their emotion, to manage their problems, manage their home lives

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<v Speaker 2>if they need it, manage stress, all those things, and

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<v Speaker 2>there are healthy ways of doing that, and that's why

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<v Speaker 2>we need people that are licensed, that have been trained

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<v Speaker 2>and understand how them human brain and emotions work that

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<v Speaker 2>can help kids out