Speaker 1: Everything that I had believed prior to understanding how the
Speaker 1: world works was completely shattered. And I think in that
Speaker 1: point my opinion, I think, you know, shadow work is
Speaker 1: very very important to even have this experience, but I
Speaker 1: think it's going to actually be much more If that
Speaker 1: is important, you know, it's not as important, but much
Speaker 1: more important dealing with what's going to go through your
Speaker 1: head after.
Speaker 2: You have this experience of trying to make sense of it.
Speaker 1: And that could be I guess maybe my dark Knight
Speaker 1: of the soul, because it's like one I realized I've
Speaker 1: probably been lied to, a miss understood, and now I
Speaker 1: have to sit here and try to think am I
Speaker 1: crazy and have I lost it?
Speaker 2: Or am I actually aunts?
Speaker 1: And that gets scary, so like even like progressively or
Speaker 1: even maybe the last one.
Speaker 2: But it had brought me to that, to even going
Speaker 2: to the hospital.
Speaker 1: There was just like a lot of stuff that was
Speaker 1: shattering my ideas of existence.
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1: That made me think this, but because of one of
Speaker 1: those experiences, something just popped up in my head and said,
Speaker 1: look into the eyeballs in the brain. I don't know why,
Speaker 1: And then I started looking into that and I was
Speaker 1: like Jesus fucking Christ. There's so many sigils and symbolism
Speaker 1: and in here it's fucking insane. And then you start realizing,
Speaker 1: like what I thought magic is the idea that the
Speaker 1: Oto gave me or any other place the Satan. And
Speaker 1: I think I was a little bit resentful for that
Speaker 1: to begin with, because if what I do think is
Speaker 1: actually happening, and if I really did experience crossing the Abyss,
Speaker 1: I think you should be a little bit more open
Speaker 1: about what somebody is going to go through and what
Speaker 1: their experience is going to be. Stop with so many
Speaker 1: fucking secrets, because I don't think it's healthy for somebody
Speaker 1: to have that experience not really knowing what the fuck
Speaker 1: they're doing, because again, if you're not mentally strong enough
Speaker 1: for it, I do think it will warp your mind
Speaker 1: and fuck you up. Do you think I'm not patting
Speaker 1: myself on the back saying I was a gangster because
Speaker 1: I dealt with some serious shit in my head to
Speaker 1: be able to catch where I am now after these experiences.
Speaker 3: HI welcome to Beneath the Bloom. I'm Syria Saint Sinclair.
Speaker 3: Beneath the Bloom is a passion project born from my
Speaker 3: endless curiosity about people and their stories. I am a
Speaker 3: persepane dvote and it is a reflection of my work
Speaker 3: with her. Beneath the Bloom follows the myth of her transformation.
Speaker 3: It starts in the meadow, then the descent into the underworld,
Speaker 3: and ultimately her sovereigny. Turns conversations with witches, occultists, seekers,
Speaker 3: and fellow wanderers. We explore the threads that connect us,
Speaker 3: the endurance, the reclamation, and the quiet beauty of choosing
Speaker 3: meaning in a world that often misunderstands us. Through conversation,
Speaker 3: we explore what it means to fall apart, to rediscover
Speaker 3: ourselves into bloom again, each in our own unique way,
Speaker 3: and somehow we all go through it collectively. Beneath the
Speaker 3: Blue uses storytelling, humor, and raw vulnerability to explore how
Speaker 3: personal practice, shadow work, and devotion helps us bloom in
Speaker 3: the dark. These conversations are not just interviews, they're mythic
Speaker 3: maps of transformation. Hi, welcome to Beneath the Bloom. Conversations
Speaker 3: rooted and personal truth, shadow paths, and the sacred blossom
Speaker 3: into sovereignty. Today, my guest is Nick with the Occult rejects.
Speaker 2: Welcome, Nick, thank you very much for having me on.
Speaker 2: Appreciate it.
Speaker 3: So Nick is originally from New York and now in
Speaker 3: North Carolina. He's been studying the occult for over a
Speaker 3: decade and was a member of the Oto is it
Speaker 3: Ta Hoodi to Hoodi Lodge for a few years. He's
Speaker 3: big into the Kabbala, planetary magic and theragy. He also
Speaker 3: tries to come from an academic and scientific angle, and
Speaker 3: it's not all dicks and demons. According to his words, welcome,
Speaker 3: and so I want to go ahead and start off
Speaker 3: with the meadow where let's go ahead and start with
Speaker 3: like where are you from? And when did you come
Speaker 3: first come across the occult or become an occultist?
Speaker 1: Like again, I originally grew up in New York. It
Speaker 1: was a Suffolk County. I lived down in ron Konkoma
Speaker 1: when I was a child, So right there, like that's
Speaker 1: even a big thing that I sometimes refer back to
Speaker 1: even when I'm on my own show or on other shows.
Speaker 1: The fact of I don't know if because there ron
Speaker 1: Konkoma was known. First off, everywhere I lived had Native
Speaker 1: American streets, so we were already had the idea that
Speaker 1: was Native Americans buried underneath the houses and there might
Speaker 1: be spirits. We had Lake Ronkonkoma that had a story
Speaker 1: with it that every year the princess of the lake
Speaker 1: would take a mail because of some story about wanting
Speaker 1: to marry a white guy when she was younger. The
Speaker 1: faller said no, and somehow they both you know, almost
Speaker 1: Romeo and Juliet both dead somehow at the end. So
Speaker 1: now she always takes a male. And as long as
Speaker 1: I live there, that always happened. At least one dude
Speaker 1: every year drowned in that lake. So we're just like yo,
Speaker 1: you know, as a kid, yeah, you start thinking this
Speaker 1: stuff is like, you know, real. So even as a child,
Speaker 1: probably with all that stuff from around me, I was
Speaker 1: already open to just paranormal and myths and lore. I
Speaker 1: did kind of grow up in somewhat of a religious household,
Speaker 1: and you know, Christians slash kind of like Catholic, and
Speaker 1: I think due to that, I mean, you have to
Speaker 1: start worrying about the devils, and eventually I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: intrigued by that as well, I guess.
Speaker 2: At some point, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So it's just you know, I just even think that
Speaker 1: whole economy or that whole situation that just made me
Speaker 1: very interested in everything, you know, like well, you know, well,
Speaker 1: who's this character that supposedly is going to you know,
Speaker 1: make me do all.
Speaker 2: These bad things.
Speaker 1: So just even as as grown up as a kid,
Speaker 1: growing up, I think I was just very interested in
Speaker 1: just the idea of heaven and hell. I believed again,
Speaker 1: like in the paranormal. My my father and mother even
Speaker 1: believed in ghosts. They thought the house might have been
Speaker 1: haunted at times. So all that stuff, I'm sure had
Speaker 1: something to do with just me being open to unusual things,
Speaker 1: I guess, or.
Speaker 2: You know, not the normal.
Speaker 1: Uh there was at times there was satanic panic in
Speaker 1: our neighborhood too, believe it or not.
Speaker 2: Growing up so again like this stuff is in my.
Speaker 1: Face, And I guess as a child, I was a
Speaker 1: little bit more inquisitive than.
Speaker 2: Scared to where I was like, oh, what is this stuff?
Speaker 1: Like what's going on? You know, why is that bad?
Speaker 1: And not saying it's not bad. I want to know,
Speaker 1: like what it is, what is it that makes that bad?
Speaker 1: And I mean to the point where it's like even
Speaker 1: a few houses down looking at it. Now, I couldn't
Speaker 1: tell you if there were satanic. I mean even that
Speaker 1: word itself. I mean it's missed whatever. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm getting at the way people it is wrong in
Speaker 1: my opinion, But growing up, I thought there was satanic
Speaker 1: because like they they had cars that literally had sigil
Speaker 1: spray painted on them and you hear them blasting, well
Speaker 1: actually playing.
Speaker 2: They had a band playing death metal out of the house.
Speaker 1: So to me, I'm thinking this is like basically moment
Speaker 1: Angel lived down, you know, lives down the box for me,
Speaker 1: and I got satist and you know, as and your
Speaker 1: parents are telling you, the neighbors are talking about it.
Speaker 1: You know, these people are weird. So like I even
Speaker 1: think I got Satanists living on my block. And then
Speaker 1: at one point down the road, crazy story. People can
Speaker 1: look it up and ron Khan Khama. Some kid thought
Speaker 1: Dungeons and Dragons told him to kill his parents. So
Speaker 1: we off to one of them, whoa, yeah, so now
Speaker 1: we got like, you know, Dungeons and Dragons, and you
Speaker 1: know this occult game that's telling kids to kill people,
Speaker 1: is you know, actually doing it. Well, the kid was
Speaker 1: play sick anyway, But you know what I'm saying, so
Speaker 1: I got that going on, and then you no, lie.
Speaker 1: Two years later, this is the craziest thing. That house
Speaker 1: that that kid did that in was on a corner
Speaker 1: house at a light. A couple of years later, somebody
Speaker 1: blew the light and ended up in an accident and
Speaker 1: went into the house and killed the rest of the people.
Speaker 2: He didn't kill and he just like what they hit
Speaker 2: them with the car through the house. What went through
Speaker 2: the house and killed people?
Speaker 3: She di too. Uh No, he was jil oh, okay,
Speaker 3: God if he.
Speaker 2: Wasn't in he wasn't in that house anymore. I can
Speaker 2: tell you that, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean he was young enough to maybe went into
Speaker 1: like you know, uh, your mental institute instead of jail.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how old are you? M M.
Speaker 2: This might have been before my teens.
Speaker 3: Oh that's really scary, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: There was one time where animals were going missing in
Speaker 1: a neighborhood and the whole rumor was that the Satanist
Speaker 1: were killing.
Speaker 2: Them, you know, and who knows even what it was.
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe people's animals, which just I mean
Speaker 1: our dog maybe just hopped defense and didn't come back that.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm saying that's quite possible.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: But you know, just having all this stuff in.
Speaker 1: My life growing up, especially like oh little Satan, Satan Satan.
Speaker 1: I guess you know. I'm in North Carolina. It's also
Speaker 1: considered the biggest occult state, I think, in the country.
Speaker 1: And I think it's due to the fact that, I mean,
Speaker 1: you have the Bible belt going through here. When you
Speaker 1: have something forced in your face, it's just gonna be
Speaker 1: a reaction at some point to go to the complete
Speaker 1: opposite or be intrigued by the other end. I think
Speaker 1: that's kind of what happened to me having that stuff
Speaker 1: constantly in my face. I just got interested in all
Speaker 1: of it. So, like long story short, throughout school, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it was interested in you know, paranormal.
Speaker 2: UFOs, you know, bigfoot stuff like that.
Speaker 1: I had a few friends that were considered themselves wicked,
Speaker 1: and I thought they were pretty cool, and like you know,
Speaker 1: I would talk to them sometimes and ask them about
Speaker 1: their stuff. I thought it was really interesting. But I guess,
Speaker 1: like you know, neither maybe afraid to get into it
Speaker 1: or just whatever. Got other stuff. I'd rather play my
Speaker 1: guitar or I don't know stuff like that. But eventually,
Speaker 1: like fast forward, probably like into my mid twenties, I
Speaker 1: started getting a little bit more into like conspiracy stuff,
Speaker 1: but like the stuff I came across was more like
Speaker 1: Michael Tassarian, who's that that, Mark Passio, David Ike, Jordan Maxwell,
Speaker 1: people that, you know, people that kind of heavily touch
Speaker 1: on the occult anyway, and that may not necessarily always
Speaker 1: do it in a bad light either. That interested me
Speaker 1: a lot more when I started getting into the cult,
Speaker 1: because I did believe, going back to when I was
Speaker 1: in school, I did believe that these people that are
Speaker 1: into that stuff were probably legit.
Speaker 2: So I believe that it actually works.
Speaker 1: You know, I believe this stuff was real because it
Speaker 1: was throughout my face honestly, even like I've been talking
Speaker 1: about this supposed Satanists down the road, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: already you know, due to all that, I believe this
Speaker 1: stuff is real. So I'm taking the occult as you know, real,
Speaker 1: which you know it is to me. So I got
Speaker 1: interested in that stuff and listen to a lot of things,
Speaker 1: a lot of lectures, you know, a lot of podcasts.
Speaker 1: Well there really wasn't podcasts back then. Actually, it was
Speaker 1: more of like long form YouTube videos really, and I
Speaker 1: got into this stuff, would research on my own, just
Speaker 1: to look up different things. And after a while, at
Speaker 1: some point, I was like, you know, I know all
Speaker 1: these orders, I know all these names and all these
Speaker 1: supposed bad people. I zero have zero clue what the
Speaker 1: hell magic still is. I have no idea, you know,
Speaker 1: So like, where is this getting me? Because I actually
Speaker 1: want to try to understand what his magic was the occult,
Speaker 1: like what's going on there? So I was like, maybe
Speaker 1: I should actually like join an order, you know, this
Speaker 1: time yet now at this point, I'm into.
Speaker 2: My thirties at some point, okay, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was started thinking maybe I should like try
Speaker 1: to like visit one of these places, you know. And
Speaker 1: at this point already okay, at this point, I would
Speaker 1: have already bought books.
Speaker 2: I think I had Donald Michael.
Speaker 1: Craig's Lessons in Ceremonial Magic or Lessons of Magic, whatever
Speaker 1: that book is.
Speaker 2: I had that book.
Speaker 1: I had a few other books that I was already reading,
Speaker 1: already starting to practice like certain things, and it was
Speaker 1: I started I can't remember exactly because I don't want
Speaker 1: to make a wrong accusation on somebody, but somebody's work
Speaker 1: that had libor rush in it did not match Crowley's
Speaker 1: libor rush it like one of the things was moving around,
Speaker 1: and I was like, well, why that's not the original thing.
Speaker 1: Like so like now I'm thinking in my head, like
Speaker 1: can I not even trust books? And I got to
Speaker 1: go to the orders themselves and actually have somebody there
Speaker 1: this stuff to me. I started thinking like maybe I
Speaker 1: should get involved and learn from other people and have
Speaker 1: people to learn from. Yeah, I mean to have people
Speaker 1: to talk to too and stuff. And so I sort
Speaker 1: of looking and there was some people that I knew
Speaker 1: that were already in the community from being on like
Speaker 1: Facebook groups or just like on social media kind of
Speaker 1: like lurking and just talking to a few people here
Speaker 1: and there. And I knew somebody was in the Masons,
Speaker 1: and they were like, dude, like you're gonna waste your
Speaker 1: time for a long time before you can even start
Speaker 1: getting into rituals because they're not even gonna act like
Speaker 1: that shit exists at a certain certain degree.
Speaker 2: So I was like, all right, just screw that. There
Speaker 2: wasn't a golden doorn near me.
Speaker 1: I actually would have probably have preferred that that's what
Speaker 1: I was looking more for because I thought I might
Speaker 1: have been a little bit more like academic or a
Speaker 1: little bit more studious. And but then I happened to
Speaker 1: notice all this and Oto Lodge twenty five minutes away
Speaker 1: from my house. I was like, I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: I've read Crowley stuff. I even read some.
Speaker 2: You know, it was interesting. He has a lot of
Speaker 2: shit in prison.
Speaker 1: Believe it or not, I was in prison at one
Speaker 1: point and he had tons of stuff that guy's books
Speaker 1: floating around. I had heard of him prior to them,
Speaker 1: but I had come across more of his stuff in
Speaker 1: there and read it and still thought it was just like, Yo,
Speaker 1: this shit's nonsense. It makes no fucking sense to me.
Speaker 1: I actually thought it was a bunch of garbage, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't get it. But then I
Speaker 1: was like still eventually, like you know, when I was
Speaker 1: out of prison and started getting into practicing more, and
Speaker 1: when I came across the Oto and his work, I
Speaker 1: some reason at that point I was like, yeah, there's
Speaker 1: something here. I just don't think I was able to
Speaker 1: even conceive what the guy was talking about then, so
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I'll try the Oto. It
Speaker 1: had a little bit more of it's maybe a little
Speaker 1: bit more different imagery than I was looking for. It's
Speaker 1: a little bit more darker looking. But uh, I was like,
Speaker 1: oh fuck, I'll try it out. And then when I
Speaker 1: got there, I was like, oh, these people all like harmless.
Speaker 2: Nice people. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're all just nerds like me honestly, and so yeah.
Speaker 1: So but eventually I was like, you know what, let
Speaker 1: me go, let me hit this place up. And you know,
Speaker 1: these secret societies aren't as secret as people think they are,
Speaker 1: or at least hiding themselves. Maybe they're mysteries and mysteries
Speaker 1: they might keep secret like the stuff that you can learn,
Speaker 1: but their existence they don't hide it. So it was
Speaker 1: really easy. I mean, I'm sure you would know. It's
Speaker 1: really easy to go find these places if you want
Speaker 1: to go find them.
Speaker 2: You know, they.
Speaker 1: Themselves so yeah, well they also they want people to
Speaker 1: come there too.
Speaker 2: They have bills to pay, like you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: like it would help.
Speaker 1: So I found a hoodie lodge and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: we'll go to a Gnostic mass and I think there
Speaker 1: was one like a month away, which to Hoodi Lodge
Speaker 1: has like every weekend, very active lodge a lot of people,
Speaker 1: and I will say the Gnostic Mass is done. Correct there,
Speaker 1: I'll give them that too. We were talking about that earlier.
Speaker 1: I when I hit them up, they were like, that's
Speaker 1: a month from now. They're like, just hit us up
Speaker 1: again and we'll give you directions on how to get here.
Speaker 2: Want to come? I was like, all right, not a problem.
Speaker 1: Uh So at that point I had even watched the
Speaker 1: Gnostic Mass on YouTube Chuck checked it out.
Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, no problems. It looks a little weird.
Speaker 1: Well, it looks a little weird maybe to other people,
Speaker 1: but to me, I was just like, yeah, this is
Speaker 1: no big deal. I can handle this, and uh I
Speaker 1: went Eventually I hit them up I think a couple
Speaker 1: of days before the Gnostic Mass, and then they had
Speaker 1: given me directions or you know, the address and stuff
Speaker 1: and let me know how to get there. I will say,
Speaker 1: first going there, I don't want to give like too
Speaker 1: much away on how they are with like talking about them,
Speaker 1: you know, specifically, but like this setup was weird because
Speaker 1: it was in like an apartment building, so you can't
Speaker 1: just walk in.
Speaker 2: There was like a gated it's like a gated place.
Speaker 2: So in the directions.
Speaker 1: It tells you, like, you know, across the street from
Speaker 1: the lodge, there's a park. They'll sit at the bench
Speaker 1: and like there'll be people out there, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: what the fuck.
Speaker 2: So they're like i'd like driving and un parking, and
Speaker 2: I'm like walking down the road and I see, I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna keep it.
Speaker 1: Realized saw like a group I looked like goth kids,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, that's that's good. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: all wearing black. You know, it's probably the guy, you know,
Speaker 1: the people there. So I walked over and just you know,
Speaker 1: all hung out. And then I saw a guy come
Speaker 1: out with the key on locking the gate, being like
Speaker 1: all right, you know, I was like, oh, okay, this
Speaker 1: just makes sense. You can't just walk in, you know.
Speaker 1: It almost made me feel a little bit safe. Actually,
Speaker 1: I know, some crazy guy, you know, you want to
Speaker 1: get some school shooters showing up. He's probably not gonna
Speaker 1: get in right away, you know. But so I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, that made sense. But at the first, you know,
Speaker 1: at the beginning, I was already like, okay, this is
Speaker 1: getting weird. But so I finally went downstairs, you know,
Speaker 1: hung out, you hang out in the main room for
Speaker 1: a while and then you know, people bullshitting. I'm sitting
Speaker 1: there just nervous, like what the fuck am I doing here?
Speaker 2: And starts up and I will say for people like,
Speaker 2: I'm not vanilla.
Speaker 1: But it did freak me out because I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: on YouTube, they don't show titties, So when that shit
Speaker 1: came out, I was just like, Yo, what the fuck's
Speaker 1: going on now? I was like, Yo, this shit turns
Speaker 1: into eyes white shut, I'm getting the fuck out of you.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, yo, Like literally, I'm like standing there.
Speaker 1: You haven't been to a mask, so like you don't
Speaker 1: know what, like two rows of people and then you
Speaker 1: have everything going up there and I'm like kind of
Speaker 1: in the back. So it's just I just got this
Speaker 1: whole view and I'm just like, yeah, like I'm really here.
Speaker 2: Right now, Yeah happening.
Speaker 1: And I was like and two weeks later I went back, no,
Speaker 1: I will say, you know, and I don't know if
Speaker 1: maybe maybe she was smart about it too. The priestess,
Speaker 1: you know, the one with the tits out, approached me
Speaker 1: after the fact and was like, you know, we sometimes
Speaker 1: we do classes, So I don't know if it was
Speaker 1: already like, you know, that uncomfortable, weird situation, or maybe
Speaker 1: she thought I might have enjoyed what I saw, you know,
Speaker 1: who knows. Was trying to like, at least talk to
Speaker 1: me and tell me that there's other things here besides this.
Speaker 1: We have some classes sometimes we cover people's history, and
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I think I'll come
Speaker 1: back for something else m And I did, and I
Speaker 1: thought it was really good. So I was like, you
Speaker 1: know what, I don't think I'll just stay and I'll
Speaker 1: get used to the uncomfortability of just random boobs, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. I mean, it's normally not a
Speaker 1: thing a guy and normally complains about. But it was
Speaker 1: it was just, you know, it was a little weird.
Speaker 3: In it's still if you're not it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, oh, I should have watched the
Speaker 1: other one on vimeo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but uh yeah.
Speaker 1: But I eventually stayed, Uh did a couple of initiations,
Speaker 1: met a few good people, some that I still actually
Speaker 1: keep in contact with. Uh yeah, I mean I had
Speaker 1: my own eventually, you know, and I just you know,
Speaker 1: eventually COVID came and that.
Speaker 2: Was just a huge, horrible, big issue.
Speaker 1: So I mean, eventually I just kind of left anyway,
Speaker 1: I don't know if I want to get into that
Speaker 1: or not put and I could be as nice as
Speaker 1: possible about it, but I just didn't feel like it
Speaker 1: was really a place for me that much anymore. It
Speaker 1: is the situation. It was like, well, you're not even open,
Speaker 1: so what the fu point? I eventually just stopped going
Speaker 1: and just kind of went off on my own with
Speaker 1: my own experiences that I started to have. I mean,
Speaker 1: I I do, I do make the claim and I
Speaker 1: do believe that I have crossed to the abyss. So
Speaker 1: at that point, I was just like, what do I
Speaker 1: need to go back there for anyway?
Speaker 2: Like that happened?
Speaker 1: Why I wasn't going there because for a while, because
Speaker 1: of COVID are just not being interested in that place
Speaker 1: as much, I wasn't going, and I was doing a
Speaker 1: lot more stuff at home, a shadow work, rituals, theorgy,
Speaker 1: and I eventually had my own experience and that kind
Speaker 1: of was just like I don't know how to say
Speaker 1: this without it like I don't want it to come
Speaker 1: out the wrong way, because again there was really you know,
Speaker 1: the people there are really good people and they're just
Speaker 1: looking for something and most of them are nerds, but
Speaker 1: I feel like some of these organizations unfortunately kind of
Speaker 1: hand you or give you the image of the vices
Speaker 1: and not the virtues. And I just felt for myself
Speaker 1: at that time. I just didn't see that place offering
Speaker 1: me anything that much anymore.
Speaker 2: So I left.
Speaker 1: That's well, and I'll still talk to people from there,
Speaker 1: have people on my show that are associated with that place,
Speaker 1: so it's just for.
Speaker 2: Me m hm.
Speaker 1: So but yeah, uh, And I will say I'm very
Speaker 1: glad that that experience happened because I know who I am,
Speaker 1: what I want and what I don't want now, So
Speaker 1: you know, it was all it's all learning, It was
Speaker 1: all it all needed to happen, in my opinion, for
Speaker 1: me to be who I am today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure you learned a lot from the process.
Speaker 3: It doesn't happen to Yeah, you know, it doesn't have to.
Speaker 3: You don't have to be a part of something for
Speaker 3: forever for it to be meaningful and impactful. And I
Speaker 3: think that it's an important skill to learn when something
Speaker 3: isn't right for you anymore.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Yeah, definitely people there that I will never
Speaker 1: forget that I have definitely like left an impact in
Speaker 1: my life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially if you saw titties for the person You're like, Okay,
Speaker 3: this is an impact for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Do you do you still find ways of finding community
Speaker 3: now or do you miss having communities like a soler
Speaker 3: practitionering you prefer that you.
Speaker 2: Know what that has changed over time? Uh? When I
Speaker 2: first left, I don't. I think I was.
Speaker 1: I had misdirected anger and or resentment, and I kind
Speaker 1: of like put myself away from like not just the
Speaker 1: OTO but like old magical community and it kind of
Speaker 1: just like started, you know, podcasting, And due to that,
Speaker 1: I kind of tried to start off in the conspiracy
Speaker 1: community first, wanting to like decode and like you know,
Speaker 1: from my experience, this is one thing I'll say, from
Speaker 1: my experience with crossing the Abyss, I feel like that
Speaker 1: is the only time I actually understood what my true
Speaker 1: will is.
Speaker 2: I do believe this.
Speaker 1: May sound corny to come from an occultist, but I
Speaker 1: do believe I actually have a mission from God or
Speaker 1: I have a purpose. My purpose is to help people
Speaker 1: understand the occult and know that it's not old just
Speaker 1: Dixon demons, that there's science in there and it can
Speaker 1: actually bring you to have an experience with God and
Speaker 1: change you for better, and that's what I want to do.
Speaker 1: So I kind of tried to do that in the
Speaker 1: occult community. The conspiracy community first, uh to you know,
Speaker 1: because it's very extremely like demonized the occult. I mean
Speaker 1: everything is blamed on fucking al Stacroley and John de Satanic,
Speaker 1: everything's molesting kids, you know, it's just you know, they
Speaker 1: have I'll be totally honest with you, people in the
Speaker 1: conspiracy community actually probably think about six Ship in their
Speaker 1: head more than the fucking worst the cultist. Do they
Speaker 1: obsess over everybody doing this stuff that it's all they
Speaker 1: think about.
Speaker 3: That's an interesting point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean put it this way, and I will.
Speaker 1: There's people that I'm actually close to that I may
Speaker 1: not like you their style. But if you're going to
Speaker 1: talk about Alista Crowley and Michael Aquino all day, and
Speaker 1: you're going to talk about these supposed horrific things that
Speaker 1: they did, if those aren't true, you're actually painting pictures
Speaker 1: in people's heads of some horrific shit for no reason.
Speaker 1: You are actually fucking worse than those men. You're putting
Speaker 1: horrid ideas in people's heads that aren't even real. Because
Speaker 1: you want money and clicks. That's sick, that's black magic,
Speaker 1: you know. But uh so I wanted to try to
Speaker 1: change a little bit of that and lighten it up.
Speaker 2: And I do think it has helped, at least in
Speaker 2: the area that I am.
Speaker 1: And I mean there's a different clicks in different groups
Speaker 1: and circles within the occult and conspiracy community, but I
Speaker 1: have definitely impacted a decent amount of people and to
Speaker 1: the point to where I started feeling more comfortable.
Speaker 2: Even within the time of me having.
Speaker 1: That magical experience in starting my podcast, I may not
Speaker 1: have been so much inte ritual stuff, but I have
Speaker 1: continued to study, you know, especially Cabbala and you know,
Speaker 1: looking at people from the fifteen sixteen hundreds, twelve hundreds
Speaker 1: that empedoicles's even older, you know, the BC, looking at
Speaker 1: what they're looking at and studying and try to get
Speaker 1: into that, which is another reason why I do get
Speaker 1: into physiology a lot, because why these people looking at
Speaker 1: the brain, the nervous system, and the eyeballs.
Speaker 2: That's the reason for it.
Speaker 1: I started getting into that and studying that a lot,
Speaker 1: and eventually I felt more comfortable enough to even show
Speaker 1: up more in the occult community and say I actually
Speaker 1: think I have something to say that you should listen to.
Speaker 1: You know, if a conspiracy theorists, I thought it was
Speaker 1: a little bit easier because they have zero fucking clue
Speaker 1: half the time what they're talking about. So I figured
Speaker 1: I just got to say a few words that they
Speaker 1: don't even understand them.
Speaker 2: They'll think I'm smart. It's not like manshole.
Speaker 1: I get to say a couple of spools off the
Speaker 1: cabbalistic train, They'll be like, what the fuck was that?
Speaker 2: You know, They'll be like, oh, this Scot's stromp, the
Speaker 2: Scot's s proke over gas.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: No, I've literally had people on my show like I
Speaker 1: have so many co hosts, or I used to that,
Speaker 1: like there was one or two people who were not
Speaker 1: into this, and I had me and one of my
Speaker 1: co hosts on that r and we got to do
Speaker 1: it all for the Croatia, and the whole time we
Speaker 1: were talking insane shit. The other two people had nothing
Speaker 1: to say because they literally had no idea what I
Speaker 1: was saying. Yeah, So eventually, again I felt more comfortable
Speaker 1: being myself, or you know, I was a little bit
Speaker 1: more educated in the field of the occult. So I
Speaker 1: was like, you know what, I that and it just
Speaker 1: I just I felt like that I was covering the
Speaker 1: occult enough to where I could start really segueing into
Speaker 1: that community, which I've really only been doing like.
Speaker 2: The last year, tell you the truth, the last eight months.
Speaker 1: So it's like even that's you know, meeting you and
Speaker 1: Ivy is like kind of fairly you know, new for
Speaker 1: this whole thing. But yeah, so I started feeling a
Speaker 1: little bit more confident in that, and uh, kind of
Speaker 1: since then, I mean, it's kind of been like full
Speaker 1: steam ahead. I mean a lot of the people on
Speaker 1: the show, I mean, we're all at this point now
Speaker 1: everybody on the show is actually practicing people. We all practice.
Speaker 1: We all have our own different beliefs too. We don't
Speaker 1: all follow the same pantheons. We don't all talk about
Speaker 1: the same gods. There's people on my show that the physiology,
Speaker 1: the eyeballs in the brain not even a thought of theirs.
Speaker 1: I mean, they find what I say is interesting, but
Speaker 1: that's not what they spend time on.
Speaker 2: They may want to spend time on the gods, you know,
Speaker 2: or other things or alchemy. You know.
Speaker 1: One of my guys on my show is doing an
Speaker 1: alchemy show. Now every Monday, the guys are doing something.
Speaker 1: I'm waiting for them to love themselves up at one point,
Speaker 1: Like another guy on my show, he's into Buddhism. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like, we all have all our
Speaker 1: different areas, and between all of us, I think that
Speaker 1: we actually can provide a very comprehensive look at the
Speaker 1: topics that we do. One of the ways I try
Speaker 1: to like make a joke about it. Two ways wu
Speaker 1: tang with the occult of conspiracies where you have everybody's
Speaker 1: that's got their own thing to add and we just
Speaker 1: put it together and you get one bad ass track
Speaker 1: or Crowley's seven to seven seven. How you have all
Speaker 1: the different associations in there of a way to look
Speaker 1: at that, I'll have this person is into the Greek Pantheon,
Speaker 1: me into the Egyptian my friend who was into the Buddhism. Well,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, You're starting to get all
Speaker 1: the associations that way, So you have different ways of
Speaker 1: looking at it, you know, because I do believe in
Speaker 1: the past, like when I was mentioning with these older people,
Speaker 1: they were all polymaths, you know, our school system isn't
Speaker 1: even designed.
Speaker 2: For us to be polymaths anymore.
Speaker 1: We're screwed because these polymaths, besides the occult again, they're
Speaker 1: adding music into it. The music of the spheres. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know that was huge again, the eyeballs, the brain,
Speaker 1: the nervous system. I mean, I think you know Saint Hildegarde,
Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately Catholic Church. She was a saint, but
Speaker 1: she was also an alchemist. If it wasn't for her,
Speaker 1: iron may to not be here because she invented harmonizing.
Speaker 1: She had women singing for her, and she noticed if
Speaker 1: you took one chick ladies on this side and one
Speaker 1: lady's on this side and changed the octave, you.
Speaker 2: Were like, wow, this sounds amazing.
Speaker 1: You know, these people and handed us the world that
Speaker 1: we're living in now. And uh, I forgot where I.
Speaker 2: Was going with that.
Speaker 3: So you still consider yourself that delimite, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean unfortunately.
Speaker 3: I asked Lin that too, and that was kind of
Speaker 3: a similar answer.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, yo, what I'm gonna keep it real right now.
Speaker 1: And this this may even this may even wrestle some feathers,
Speaker 1: but it is what it is.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Again, I look at the occult, you know, from a
Speaker 1: lot of angles, but I am more my opinion, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of symbolism in a cult, in the occult
Speaker 1: that references the eyeballs in the brain. I try to
Speaker 1: look at it that way. I do believe Alista Crowley
Speaker 1: was doing the same thing. A lot of people in
Speaker 1: the organization, for some reason, would rather that guy be
Speaker 1: known as some drug addict sex fiend than being intelligent.
Speaker 2: I don't get that.
Speaker 1: You your order or he has a bad name, and
Speaker 1: you resist on making this guy actually seem smart. To
Speaker 1: where they and any tell the mine I talk to you,
Speaker 1: they think I'm fucking crazy, and it's like, yo, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I actually want to give your fucking god that you
Speaker 1: all put up on a pedestal actually saying that he
Speaker 1: might have been saying something really fucking intelligent, and you
Speaker 1: don't want to give the guy credit. So I mean,
Speaker 1: the fact of just the way the organizations looked at
Speaker 1: and the way that people in the organization seem to
Speaker 1: want this guy to be continuously looked at. It's almost
Speaker 1: embarrassing to say you're a part of it. Which maybe
Speaker 1: that's why Lynn. I don't know why her situation is.
Speaker 1: But for me, it's due to the way society looks
Speaker 1: at that organization and due to the people in that
Speaker 1: organization that want to keep it looking screwed up for
Speaker 1: some fucking silly reason. It's uncomfortable to say that, yes,
Speaker 1: I am a fellow mine. I do think Alista Crowley
Speaker 1: was onto something. I could care less what he did
Speaker 1: in his personal life. I don't care who sucked his
Speaker 1: dick or who he fucked. I don't care. I want
Speaker 1: to know what the hell that guy was doing with
Speaker 1: the occult, because I think he was a genius when
Speaker 1: he came to it. I've looked at his papers in Austin, Texas.
Speaker 1: The Voice of the Vision, when you see the amount
Speaker 1: of jamatria that guy was doing, his shit is ciphered.
Speaker 2: This guy was saying a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1: People don't even want to give him that credit that much,
Speaker 1: even in the order when you look at him putting
Speaker 1: rose on the side and doing the math for it,
Speaker 1: because he's sticking it inside his book. He's not talking
Speaker 1: about his girlfriend anymore. I hate to tell you, bro,
Speaker 1: he's doing something else in there, you know. And uh,
Speaker 1: That's why I will consider myself a film at in
Speaker 1: the census, because I do think whatever he was doing
Speaker 1: in the occult, that man was onto something. And I'm
Speaker 1: interested in what the fuck he was saying.
Speaker 3: I'm interested in your opinion where like and.
Speaker 2: I went real quick, I know it's just screwed up.
Speaker 2: I messed up. It is not that I'm trying to
Speaker 2: say this guy was better, but I think.
Speaker 1: I at least want to give the guy a little
Speaker 1: bit better of an image saying this dude wasn't saying
Speaker 1: fucking babble.
Speaker 2: He was saying something deep. He wasn't just a degenerate pervert.
Speaker 1: He put that shit in ciphers, so you get disgusted
Speaker 1: and don't even look at it. Only the people who
Speaker 1: don't fear will find what he'll be saying.
Speaker 3: HM. My next question for you is why do you
Speaker 3: think that? Because now I'm having back to back episodes
Speaker 3: with people who are a little bit disenchanted with the OTO.
Speaker 3: I'm curious about your opinion and why you think that is, Like,
Speaker 3: why there's something happening here at least like from my
Speaker 3: experience the people I've talked to.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I want to try to answer this.
Speaker 2: I think, like, in the nicest way, and.
Speaker 3: You don't have to answer it if you don't want to.
Speaker 1: Oh, no, I want to UH one I will take
Speaker 1: I can't say that quote exactly, but quote crally in
Speaker 1: one way. And I think this is an issue with
Speaker 1: the OTOH. It confusing sympathy for empathy. Well, people being
Speaker 1: sympathetic instead of empathetic. It's going to fucking ruin humanity.
Speaker 2: That order.
Speaker 1: I seem to want to focus more on I think
Speaker 1: feelings and other people than actually what magic is. I
Speaker 1: don't know any other way to say it without starting
Speaker 1: to get too uh detailed.
Speaker 3: I don't think I understand what is? What is? What is?
Speaker 2: The uh? All right?
Speaker 1: Just like the AA, the O t O shouldn't be
Speaker 1: actually worried about anything outside of that organization. So my opinion,
Speaker 1: you should not be sending me a zoom meeting to
Speaker 1: talk about George Floyd situation. Why is that a zoom
Speaker 1: meeting for the ot O. Why are we talking about
Speaker 1: racism and Antifa that has nothing to do.
Speaker 2: To the OTO.
Speaker 1: That man, whatever happened, I'm just keeping it real, regardless
Speaker 1: of what you saw was even real, instead of Nazi magic.
Speaker 1: UH doesn't affect my will unfortunately, but I would.
Speaker 3: Argue, it doesn't affect you because you're a white man.
Speaker 1: If I was black, it still would affect me because
Speaker 1: I was the one on the floor.
Speaker 3: What do you mean.
Speaker 2: That didn't happen to me?
Speaker 3: So when other people get hurt, it doesn't it doesn't
Speaker 3: affect you.
Speaker 2: No, it can. But to the point to where I'm
Speaker 2: gonna forget myself.
Speaker 3: No, you don't think that you can both stand up
Speaker 3: for other people and all.
Speaker 1: See again, Oh yeah you can, Yeah, for sure. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna now for myself for a cult this, But I'm not.
Speaker 2: It's just uh. I'll put it this way.
Speaker 1: If when I was there they started talking about the
Speaker 1: Soldier Boys, I would.
Speaker 2: Have told them to shut the fuck up.
Speaker 3: I don't know what that is.
Speaker 2: Well, that's a right wing group.
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear politics in a fucking place
Speaker 1: that's supposed to be about magic, because all that's going
Speaker 1: to do is create division, division, and all this does,
Speaker 1: all politics does is create division and hate. If you're
Speaker 1: an actual magician, you should realize this fucking shit slavery.
Speaker 2: Why am I paying attention to it?
Speaker 1: M You don't think that that make people act crazy.
Speaker 3: I think that it makes people act crazy because change
Speaker 3: needs to happen, and to think that the politics don't
Speaker 3: affect your magic sphere, your rights in general, Like it
Speaker 3: might start off with something that feels disconnected from you,
Speaker 3: but eventually they will come after you. It is it
Speaker 3: is civil rights. At some point it will affect your right.
Speaker 3: So caring about other people in the end will also
Speaker 3: protect you and protect your rights. Because if black people
Speaker 3: do not have the freedoms that they need, if Mexican
Speaker 3: Americans are don't have a breads but they need your next.
Speaker 1: Yes, but the whole thing that's an organization that's supposed
Speaker 1: to be about magic. Why am I hearing about other things?
Speaker 1: It could have been fucking anything else. Honestly, I also
Speaker 1: didn't agree that. I mean, the church's doors are open,
Speaker 1: and Horace is too scared. Why is the place closed
Speaker 1: because of COVID The churches are open. I didn't agree
Speaker 1: with that either. I thought that was a little silly yo.
Speaker 1: And then to tell us that ninety three percent of
Speaker 1: the people voted that they are not comfortable going there
Speaker 1: being vaccinated.
Speaker 2: When I can tell you me.
Speaker 1: Jason, Jordan, Michael, and probably about five other people never
Speaker 1: got that survey, So how did you get ninety three percent,
Speaker 1: which sounds cute for the OTO. Sure to tell everybody
Speaker 1: that now you can't even come in unless you get jabbed.
Speaker 2: Fuck you.
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be a magician, yet I'm going to
Speaker 1: be under someone's thumb.
Speaker 2: Who you fucking crazy?
Speaker 3: I hear what you're saying. I just think I just
Speaker 3: won't go.
Speaker 1: If people are scared, then I'll just stay home and
Speaker 1: practice on my own.
Speaker 3: I just think that you are separating things that aren't
Speaker 3: necessarily separated, like these things do affect each other. And
Speaker 3: I get what you're saying, right, you're there for magic.
Speaker 3: You don't necessarily want to hear someone's personal opinion. I
Speaker 3: get that, I totally do. But I don't think that
Speaker 3: you can exist in a sphere where politics don't affect
Speaker 3: you and affect your rights, like especially nowadays, like the
Speaker 3: politics are infringing on people's rights every single day, and
Speaker 3: that will come for your ability to practice magic at
Speaker 3: some point. But you know there's other steps to get there.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, doing that in a jail, so it
Speaker 1: would probably suck. But I mean I could practice magic
Speaker 1: just by closing my eyes. That's all I have to do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But you you don't want you don't want rights
Speaker 3: for yourself, you don't want freedom for yourself.
Speaker 2: No, yeah, it again. I just don't understand why.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's an organization that's not supposed to
Speaker 1: be to looking about that is, and it just was
Speaker 1: weird and uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: Again, they could have been fall right.
Speaker 1: Now I would actually feel more comfortable tell them to
Speaker 1: go suck a dick if they were fall right, tell
Speaker 1: you the truth.
Speaker 2: Neither one I want to hear about.
Speaker 3: Why would you feel more comfortable telling them it's like
Speaker 3: a dick about if they were far right though, because
Speaker 3: you disagree with.
Speaker 2: Well, if I tell somebody on yeah, actually have course,
Speaker 2: I do sick. I mean, it's just shit. I'm Nazis
Speaker 2: all the time on my show.
Speaker 3: Sure, yes, it's a good thing to do. But I
Speaker 3: just feel like you're saying there shouldn't be politics. But
Speaker 3: then you have double standards when it comes to politics.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I should on both sides.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will show the way both sides mentally manipulate
Speaker 1: us to get us into conversations like this. Now.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean I don't think that we're separated. I
Speaker 3: think I'm just having a conversation with you because I'm
Speaker 3: interested genuinely understanding your point of view. Like I think
Speaker 3: it's I think it's very interesting when people try to
Speaker 3: separate magic from politics. I think that like they affect
Speaker 3: each other, whether we like it or not, and we
Speaker 3: can pretend like they because it's kind of convenient, But
Speaker 3: ultimately we live in a country where, like it affects
Speaker 3: her every day, it affects our lives. And I would
Speaker 3: love separation of church and state. I would absolutely love that,
Speaker 3: but unfortunately that's just not our existence. But I agree
Speaker 3: with you. I do think that, Like, I mean, put.
Speaker 1: It this way, since Trump got elected again, I haven't
Speaker 1: paid attention to the fucking news, and I ain't seem
Speaker 1: pretty happy, and I don't feel oppressed.
Speaker 3: You don't feel oppressed, No, I mean, I have.
Speaker 1: No idea what the fucking retod's doing, and I feel
Speaker 1: totally fine. I don't pay attention to the news anymore.
Speaker 1: It's cancer.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that the reason you don't feel affected
Speaker 3: is because you're a white male. I feel affected.
Speaker 2: And even when Biden was in what was so horrible
Speaker 2: that happened to all of us? Nothing? Well, the shit
Speaker 2: the right was saying that was gonna happen. Nothing happened.
Speaker 2: It's all fucking propaganda.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that the fact that, like there are
Speaker 3: Mexican Americans being taken from their homes that they lived
Speaker 3: in for years, that does affect my life in a
Speaker 3: very active, real way as someone who is very I'm
Speaker 3: not Mexican American myself, as someone who's very close to
Speaker 3: the Mexican American community. Yeah, there are things that are
Speaker 3: definitely affecting my life, and I feel like it doesn't
Speaker 3: It doesn't affect you because of your position and who
Speaker 3: you are.
Speaker 2: I paid attention to it would piss me off. I
Speaker 2: don't want to know what the shit he's doing.
Speaker 1: I think he's a fucking psycho, and that's why I
Speaker 1: don't pay attention to his sick because then I'll get triggered.
Speaker 1: I'll be worrying about what he's doing instead of writing
Speaker 1: a show for myself.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely understand, But I also think that that's
Speaker 3: a privilege to disconnect and be able to be fine.
Speaker 3: But I don't blame you for I think it's very
Speaker 3: natural to want to focus on the things that you
Speaker 3: can control, and I think a lot of times that
Speaker 3: is an active self preservation, which is important.
Speaker 1: I mean, the guy's rolling pre crime in I should
Speaker 1: be freaking the fuck out, and I'm not. I'm going
Speaker 1: to focus on my work.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And eventually it'll affect your work. It will
Speaker 3: affect your ability to speak about your work. So I
Speaker 3: don't know, probably hopefully not. I hope I'm wrong, you know,
Speaker 3: I because I have really big plans for my work too,
Speaker 3: and I really really hope that no one ever takes
Speaker 3: away my ability to share my work and to share
Speaker 3: my point of view. So I agree with you in
Speaker 3: a lot of ways. I also just want to challenge
Speaker 3: a couple of things that you said from my own
Speaker 3: personal point of view, especially as someone who is a
Speaker 3: minority within a minority.
Speaker 2: Gotcha.
Speaker 3: So, now that you've stepped away from you know or
Speaker 3: organized the OTO, do you and going circling back to
Speaker 3: the conversation about community, do you find community within your podcast?
Speaker 3: Like or do you do you think that community is
Speaker 3: important to you?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well keep you know what I mean some people yeah,
Speaker 1: uh and in person and I just want to screen
Speaker 1: yeah uh yeah, no, it definitely helps. There is a
Speaker 1: community amongst me and the people on the show. I
Speaker 1: mean there's for the most part the people that I
Speaker 1: podcast with. Now, The Cold Rejects has been out for
Speaker 1: about five years. I had a different co host for
Speaker 1: about the first year and a half and then kind
Speaker 1: of went off on my own, but brought people on
Speaker 1: to cover topics with. I started kind of just revolving
Speaker 1: certain people that I was like, oh, I worked well
Speaker 1: with this guy, you seem cool. And then eventually I
Speaker 1: just started keeping them on and then found some more
Speaker 1: people and then you know, kind of we kind of
Speaker 1: made it. It was always the Occult Rejects, but you know,
Speaker 1: now it actually really is rejects.
Speaker 2: Like you know, it's a bunch of us. But uh,
Speaker 2: I forgot where it was going with this again. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: the community.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of these people, now what I'm getting out,
Speaker 1: I've been working with for like three and a half years,
Speaker 1: three years, you know, consistently. You know, my friend Jim
Speaker 1: the Ninja, the Headless Giant, Teresa from the Spiritual Gangsters,
Speaker 1: you know, and they all have different backgrounds. I mean,
Speaker 1: we even have a Catholic that comes on the show
Speaker 1: sometimes and she could totally kick it with the occultism
Speaker 1: and adds her two cents into fit the topic. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I definitely have you know, a lot of good friends
Speaker 1: that I've made podcasting, like I have even told you
Speaker 1: though unfortunately it is probably not the place you really
Speaker 1: think it is when you first get into it. So,
Speaker 1: you know, people who I thought I might have been
Speaker 1: cool with at the beginning, you know, maybe they were
Speaker 1: really weren't too authentic. But I do think I have
Speaker 1: actually found some like real real friends people I've met
Speaker 1: personally too now from the show. And then there's people
Speaker 1: that I do know personally from like events and stuff
Speaker 1: that I have gone to that I can consider, you know,
Speaker 1: part of the community. You know, for sure, I will
Speaker 1: put it this way. The people that I consider friends
Speaker 1: in my life now either do you know, really more
Speaker 1: than likely from the podcast, whether it's in person or
Speaker 1: over the phone or on the screen, by far much
Speaker 1: better friends and more fulfilling than it was.
Speaker 2: Brier. You know these people you're like some people on
Speaker 2: the show.
Speaker 1: I guess you don't realize, like we're not trying to
Speaker 1: impress people and you're actually being in yourself and those
Speaker 1: people accept you like that, like that's a real friend,
Speaker 1: you know, and like a lot of us have old
Speaker 1: mom then on the show, Like we really weren't trying to.
Speaker 1: You know, maybe at first are trying to impress me
Speaker 1: because like, oh my god, he's gonna come on the show.
Speaker 1: But you know, eventually, like you know, you start to
Speaker 1: you know, become real with people, and uh, we've all
Speaker 1: accepted each other for that, and a lot of us
Speaker 1: don't think all the same either, you know, and we're
Speaker 1: all like really really close.
Speaker 3: I think that's wonderful. You've been able to create your
Speaker 3: own community, and I hear you because you and I
Speaker 3: have had personal conversations about the kind of content creation space,
Speaker 3: and I feel like podcast falls underneath that not being
Speaker 3: quite what you think it is, especially within like certain sectors.
Speaker 3: And but I feel like in order to find those
Speaker 3: really amazing people who are like life changing and to
Speaker 3: build your community, sometimes you've got to filter through some bullshit.
Speaker 3: You know, not everyone you meet is going to be
Speaker 3: right for you, and sometimes that lesson might be a
Speaker 3: lot harder. And sometimes you might immediately meet somebody and
Speaker 3: be like, yeah, that person's not for me, and then
Speaker 3: sometimes you might it might take you some more time,
Speaker 3: but eventually, you know, and I feel like that's kind
Speaker 3: of been my I mean, I'm very niche the content
Speaker 3: creation space, but that's already been my experiences. Some people
Speaker 3: I meet are I realized almost immediately they're not for me.
Speaker 3: And then I've also met some really really incredibly like
Speaker 3: life changing friends at the same time, and I have
Speaker 3: a lot of gratitude for that. But it also comes
Speaker 3: with a price as well, and I think that that's
Speaker 3: just friendship and community in general. It's like it's it's
Speaker 3: it's worth it, but there's sometimes a really heavy price
Speaker 3: to pay.
Speaker 2: Oh you wants another thing too that I do would
Speaker 2: even mention.
Speaker 1: It's not like I'm trying to put myself on the
Speaker 1: back yet, but like I think like half of the show,
Speaker 1: if not even more than half of it, they were
Speaker 1: all fans first, and I just had them on as
Speaker 1: a guest, tried them for a topic, and now they
Speaker 1: all have their own shows too, So I mean they
Speaker 1: even put off as fans, and like it's just amazing
Speaker 1: to see, Like what I'm getting at is not a
Speaker 1: lot of podcasters.
Speaker 2: Will even entertain them. Yeah, big names.
Speaker 1: I was like, there are so many people that don't
Speaker 1: have a name that are into this stuff, that have.
Speaker 2: So much to say.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would totally.
Speaker 1: Just because they're not popular doesn't mean they aren't intelligent.
Speaker 1: And I try to look for that, and you know,
Speaker 1: doing that, I've met some really amazing people.
Speaker 3: First of all, I think that you're allowed to pat
Speaker 3: yourself on the back for that. I think that giving
Speaker 3: other people a platform and lifting up other people is
Speaker 3: something to be very proud of. And if anyone makes
Speaker 3: you feel weird about that, they can get fucked.
Speaker 2: Yeah all.
Speaker 3: You know, like I've experienced that a lot, so justin
Speaker 3: which an enchantment is like very publicly. My friend and
Speaker 3: when I first came into the content creation space and
Speaker 3: I was talking to him about starting it, he said
Speaker 3: to me, he was like, sweetie, there's room here for
Speaker 3: all of us to be successful. And he like brought
Speaker 3: me on his show before I ever started my channel.
Speaker 3: I did like a live lecture on there. I actually
Speaker 3: he opened up his discord for me. I have a
Speaker 3: channel in his discord solely for me, because I don't
Speaker 3: have a discord, Like, oh, that's the beginning from the beginning.
Speaker 3: And you know, we had just we have known each
Speaker 3: other for a minute, but we became really close over
Speaker 3: the summer, and so he barely knew me and was
Speaker 3: like just like he was like, however, I can help
Speaker 3: you be successful. I'll be successful and like people like
Speaker 3: him are like you who are willing to doesn't matter
Speaker 3: who you are, like you still see people and want
Speaker 3: to like build them up. I think it's like such
Speaker 3: a necessary part. And I agree with him. There's so
Speaker 3: many people out there. This is this doesn't need to
Speaker 3: be a competitive space, Like there's really room for all
Speaker 3: of us to win, and all of us have an
Speaker 3: interesting viewpoint. So it makes me sad sometimes when I
Speaker 3: do reach when I do meet people who are really competitive,
Speaker 3: because it's just not necessary.
Speaker 2: I totally agree.
Speaker 3: Let me get back off my saw this my soapbox
Speaker 3: and go back to you. So have you ever experienced
Speaker 3: like a like a dark knight of the soul or
Speaker 3: what is? Unless you've had multiple descents, But what do
Speaker 3: you think that one of your distances has been?
Speaker 1: Oh man, there's a couple that I uh, I will
Speaker 1: have to probably say, I mean, I guess it would
Speaker 1: be the first time I well, maybe the first time
Speaker 1: I crossed the abyss.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: So when you say you cross the abyss, can you
Speaker 3: explain more about what that means?
Speaker 2: All right? Could get a little dark.
Speaker 1: Uh, I'm not scared my opinion, and people may not
Speaker 1: totally agree with this, and maybe some people will actually
Speaker 1: come across a lot of people listening to my show
Speaker 1: that seem to agree with me, so maybe I'm not
Speaker 1: so crazy. Just like shamanism and even kind of like NDS,
Speaker 1: you're going to have to separate your soul from your
Speaker 1: body and kind of temporarily commit suicide. My opinion, it's
Speaker 1: technically gonna have to take yourself out to have a
Speaker 1: magical experience across the abyss.
Speaker 2: That's just might opin.
Speaker 1: Not that I went the route of this, but in
Speaker 1: my opinion, Flatliners, that movie is extremely real because that's
Speaker 1: basically the same thing. When you look at what shamanism is,
Speaker 1: they push themselves to practically death. You hear people who
Speaker 1: have NDEs and they have almost the same experiences. I
Speaker 1: do think crossing the abyss, you are letting your soul
Speaker 1: slip out of your flesh and you were actually having
Speaker 1: an experience with God eventually.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that there's something to be said
Speaker 3: about that because a lot of people who have like ndies,
Speaker 3: like you said, near death experiences, they a lot of
Speaker 3: them have some more things to say. But also I
Speaker 3: feel like, coming from a psychedelic point of view, a
Speaker 3: lot of people who use tycondelic in order to experience
Speaker 3: ego deaths, depending on like whether it be ioas whatever
Speaker 3: you do. You know, like that also is is a
Speaker 3: it's not exactly a physical death, but more of a
Speaker 3: like ego death, And a lot.
Speaker 2: Of people think things avail very much for a person.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, so what was your experience.
Speaker 1: Like, well, every time, well or just like real quick,
Speaker 1: every time I do have this experience that I've had
Speaker 1: a four times, there is a physical feeling in visuals
Speaker 1: I see every time. So that's like even another thing
Speaker 1: like how I know what's even coming on what.
Speaker 2: I'm getting there? Well, I know what I'm doing. What
Speaker 2: am I saying? I know what I'm doing when I'm
Speaker 2: doing it?
Speaker 1: Anyway, But after the first time, because of that experience,
Speaker 1: and I guess explaining to you what I think I experienced,
Speaker 1: You're going to have to start questioning everything that you've
Speaker 1: believed prior.
Speaker 2: Well, my opinion for the way I grew up.
Speaker 1: Not that I'm comparing myself to him, but I mean technically,
Speaker 1: only well known religious people die and come back, So
Speaker 1: for somebody to even come out and start even thinking
Speaker 1: that is even like a little weird. But uh, when
Speaker 1: whenever I come back from these experiences, I don't know
Speaker 1: how to explain it, but it is as if like
Speaker 1: I get shown things that were inside my brain prior
Speaker 1: that I didn't understand being put together as a puzzle,
Speaker 1: and it making sense to me that to sound like
Speaker 1: the Matrix or Neo. It's not that drastic where he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I know, kung Fu, but you will wake up or
Speaker 1: I will wake up, and no, shit, I did not
Speaker 1: understand the no prior. All of a sudden, it's like
Speaker 1: it just starts getting rewired in my head and almost
Speaker 1: here like it's almost as like a voice. Really it's
Speaker 1: like telling you look at this. You know, it's very weird.
Speaker 1: I've had you know, that experience happens every time. There's
Speaker 1: been times when I open up my eyes from this
Speaker 1: experience and everything looks like it's basically just light shooting
Speaker 1: up and then changing into everything that's around me. The
Speaker 1: things that I saw in these experiences make you wonder
Speaker 1: about what NASA is selling you, because there's very much
Speaker 1: like out of space to an extent, it's just really
Speaker 1: weird to where you have to sell wondering like what's
Speaker 1: this reality? You know, is it really as dense as
Speaker 1: we think it is. I don't want to make it
Speaker 1: sound like a matrix, but just have to wonder like
Speaker 1: how real real is this? And for me that shattered,
Speaker 1: you know, everything that I had believed prior to understanding
Speaker 1: how the world works was completely shattered. And I think
Speaker 1: in that point my opinion, I think, you know, shadow
Speaker 1: work is very very important to even have this experience,
Speaker 1: but I think it's going to actually be much more
Speaker 1: If that is important, you know, it's not as important,
Speaker 1: but much more important dealing with what's going to go
Speaker 1: through your head after you have this experience or trying
Speaker 1: to make sense of it, and that could be I
Speaker 1: guess maybe my dark k eye of the soul, because
Speaker 1: it's like one I realized I've probably been lied to,
Speaker 1: a misunderstood and now I have to sit here and
Speaker 1: try to think am I crazy and have I losted?
Speaker 2: Or am I actually onto something? And that gets scary. Uh.
Speaker 2: Physically I didn't feel good for a few days. That
Speaker 2: was like weird.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: So it was just like, uh, I mean there's other
Speaker 1: at one point. And you know, the last time I
Speaker 1: did it, I ended up in the hospital because I
Speaker 1: was just like, something's wrong my one. Every time I
Speaker 1: do it, my one eyeball blows open and the other
Speaker 1: one gets pent smaller.
Speaker 3: You mean your your pupil, right.
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't know if like people might have seen
Speaker 1: a couple of months ago the loop, I was saying,
Speaker 1: the liver King, I think does the same shit. He
Speaker 1: was talking shit about Joe Rogan, and I think, like
Speaker 1: the guy Joe Rogan and the pressing charges on him whatever,
Speaker 1: some big, you know, fucking bullshit spiel. But as he's
Speaker 1: going on acting like an anshole on the fucking on
Speaker 1: the video, one pupil's blown out, the other ones pinned.
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, the guy just came back from
Speaker 1: the abyss and he's fucking lost his fucking mind for
Speaker 1: their fewd next few days, he's not gonna make any
Speaker 1: sense and he's gonna talk trash. So like for me,
Speaker 1: you know, coming back. Yeah, So like I've had that.
Speaker 1: I ended up having an issue with my blood, which
Speaker 1: was really interesting. It only happened after that, so like
Speaker 1: even like progressively or even made me the last one,
Speaker 1: but it had brought me to that, uh to even
Speaker 1: going to the hospital. There was just like a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff that was shattering my ideas of existence. I
Speaker 1: don't know what it is that made me think this,
Speaker 1: but because of one of those experiences, something just popped
Speaker 1: up in my head and said, look into the eyeballs
Speaker 1: in the brain. I don't know why. And then I
Speaker 1: started looking into that and I was like, Jesus fucking Christ,
Speaker 1: there's so many sigils and symbolism and in here it's
Speaker 1: fucking insane. And then he started realizing, like what I
Speaker 1: thought magic is the idea that the Oto gave me
Speaker 1: or any other place the Saint it. And I think
Speaker 1: I was a little bit resentful for that to begin with,
Speaker 1: because if what I do think is actually happening, and
Speaker 1: if I really did experience crossing the Abyss, I think
Speaker 1: you should be a little bit more open about what
Speaker 1: somebody is going to go through and what their experience
Speaker 1: is going to be, and stop with so many fucking secrets,
Speaker 1: because I don't think it's healthy for somebody to have
Speaker 1: that experience not really knowing what the fuck they're doing,
Speaker 1: because again, if you're not mentally strong enough for it.
Speaker 2: I do think it will warp your mind and fuck
Speaker 2: you up.
Speaker 3: Do you think I'm not.
Speaker 1: Patting myself on the back saying I was a gangster
Speaker 1: because I dealt with some serious shit in my head
Speaker 1: to be able to get to where I am now
Speaker 1: after these experiences.
Speaker 3: Do you think that we're meant to have that experience?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes I do. I think we all have the power.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter who you are, how shitty of a
Speaker 1: person you've ever been. We all have the chance to
Speaker 1: have a conscious contact with God.
Speaker 3: Do you think that everyone can handle it?
Speaker 2: Though? No, I barely could. I'm keeping a real I
Speaker 2: barely could.
Speaker 3: Because this is my thing. It's like, I don't think
Speaker 3: that psychedelics is for everyone. Some people would argue, but
Speaker 3: I don't think that psychedelics is for everyone. I don't
Speaker 3: think that accessing certain information is right for everyone, because
Speaker 3: not everyone is meant to handle that kind of information.
Speaker 2: I will not promote drug use. Let me just preface this.
Speaker 1: Even when I had these experiences, I wasn't even smoking
Speaker 1: weed anymore. The only time this, all these experiences actually
Speaker 1: were pre COVID, right before COVID, and due to COVID,
Speaker 1: I was just like YO, just for me to go
Speaker 1: out in public and deal with like life, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have to start to fucking get high again. I should
Speaker 1: you not smoking weed again just to fucking deal with
Speaker 1: the situation. So I was totally drug free when I
Speaker 1: had my experiences. I don't promote drugs because I didn't
Speaker 1: need them, but yes, I do think they can help
Speaker 1: AID if used correctly.
Speaker 3: So you know what I think we haven't clarified is
Speaker 3: how do you even access crossing the abyss? You specifically?
Speaker 1: Uh, I'd be totally honest with you, probably like the list.
Speaker 1: You know, it's six months, maybe six to eight months
Speaker 1: of my practice. I'm just telling you from my experience,
Speaker 1: you know, So I really you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: For me to tell somebody how to get there, I
Speaker 1: can really only tell them what I did well. First off, meditation, meditation, meditation, meditation,
Speaker 1: you better learn how to meditate, and I well, for me,
Speaker 1: I needed to learn how to meditate to quiet my mind.
Speaker 1: But the last, you know, like again, six to eight
Speaker 1: months before the experiences, I was heavily, heavily into chakra work, visualizations,
Speaker 1: breathing techniques, and tons of shadow work and praying. I
Speaker 1: was praying constantly about please remove these things that are
Speaker 1: making me a motherfucking piece of shit. I don't want
Speaker 1: to be this person anymore because this is taking me
Speaker 1: away from having an experience with God. It was tons
Speaker 1: that it doesn't sound Edgyagathi, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: But a lot of it was literally like doing cabalistic
Speaker 1: stuff and praying to God certain ideas on this tree
Speaker 1: of that idea of God.
Speaker 2: A lot of it was a lot of work like that.
Speaker 1: Basically, there was times I fucking cried and begged said
Speaker 1: did not want to be the motherfucker I was anymore.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if it was that, but at
Speaker 1: some point I had even realized that I'm so fucked
Speaker 1: up that I can have morals and values that actually
Speaker 1: contradict each other depending on what situation I'm in, on
Speaker 1: how the way I want to look at things, and
Speaker 1: I was just like, oh, this just isn't working for me.
Speaker 1: It was almost like wargames when the computer was just like,
Speaker 1: you know what the best way to win is, don't
Speaker 1: even play the.
Speaker 2: Fucking game anymore. Bro.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if I was just so done
Speaker 1: with the experience of being here on Earth and just
Speaker 1: wanting to, you know, transcend to something else. But eventually,
Speaker 1: when I went into my meditations, I just started to
Speaker 1: notice something different and held on to that. There's a
Speaker 1: certain visual that I had noticed that if I hold
Speaker 1: onto that and quiet my mind and don't fear it
Speaker 1: and just let it happen.
Speaker 2: It happens.
Speaker 3: So what do you see?
Speaker 2: All the way?
Speaker 1: It will get extremely extremely extremely dark, Like you don't
Speaker 1: like when you close your eyes and you meditate, and
Speaker 1: for you maybe you on the stand, after a while,
Speaker 1: it just seems to get darker because your eyes are
Speaker 1: vibing closed and you're not so focused on the outside world.
Speaker 1: So like you know, when people what I'm saying now,
Speaker 1: you know, when you're meditating for a while and it's
Speaker 1: you know, real dark with your eyes closed. It's almost
Speaker 1: as if this is another thing. I always focus on
Speaker 1: my pineal gland when I'm doing this. I'm pressing on it.
Speaker 1: That may sound crazy, but for people who can actually
Speaker 1: fear feel them spinning or sense, you know, the pressure
Speaker 1: of the chakra, I can. I would always focus on
Speaker 1: my panial and push on it. And at some point
Speaker 1: when I would do that, all of a sudden, it
Speaker 1: would look like oil spilled across the black that I
Speaker 1: already thought was black, to make it a lot darker,
Speaker 1: like completely black. And then all of a sudden, and
Speaker 1: I want to sound cheesy, I do a question, if
Speaker 1: this is the blazing star. I see this one, a
Speaker 1: little pin dot of this burning light in this darkness,
Speaker 1: and if I focus on it with my pineal gland
Speaker 1: and kind of hold on to it, it starts to
Speaker 1: come closer, and then all of a sudden, it turns
Speaker 1: into like this eclipse. Just hence why I have eclipses
Speaker 1: all over all my stuff. It's even on my logo
Speaker 1: that's even resembling an image that I see before it happens.
Speaker 1: I will see it looks like an eclipse, and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, it will start to look like
Speaker 1: explosions around it, and then it almost like looks like
Speaker 1: they turn more reddish than orange, and it starts to
Speaker 1: look like roses blooming around this eclipse. And then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, it just all that goes away. And
Speaker 1: then it's like you get all this like like fluorescent
Speaker 1: almost thermal camera looking. There's colors that I can't even
Speaker 1: explain the way it looks. I can't even explain how
Speaker 1: to say, it's not neon, it's not thermal, it's really weird.
Speaker 1: And you'll see these colors come out like of this
Speaker 1: sphere and then start spinning and it almost looks like
Speaker 1: roof like vibrations or like a record spinning of all
Speaker 1: these different like I've been told that's the rainbow bridge,
Speaker 1: where it's like like coming at you and it's just
Speaker 1: like really ominous, and at this point I don't hear
Speaker 1: a fucking thing anymore. It's like I practically went death
Speaker 1: and I'm just seeing that, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I'll get like these sacred geometry symbols like like spinning
Speaker 1: and just like coming at me, and then that will end,
Speaker 1: and then you'll see what I use on my logo.
Speaker 1: The best way for me to explain it is if
Speaker 1: maybe I was like standing in a subway and two
Speaker 1: cars were coming past me, but real slow, and you
Speaker 1: could see inside each window.
Speaker 2: It's like out of the eclipse. On the sides of
Speaker 2: the eclipse.
Speaker 1: There's just like these windows just coming out almost look
Speaker 1: like monoliths with like just looks like different places and
Speaker 1: different times or something. And they start coming out and
Speaker 1: it just keeps going for a little bit, and then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, those disappear, and then it's like
Speaker 1: it's like they eclips and it's just like like burning.
Speaker 1: And then instead of normally pulling apart when you watch
Speaker 1: the moon wax wing, well, I've noticed it's different in
Speaker 1: North Carolina the New York. It's not always left to
Speaker 1: right or right to left, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: It will go from just like Toast's headdress. It will
Speaker 1: pull from the bottom up and you start to see
Speaker 1: the black sphere that's in front of the white slowly
Speaker 1: lift up, which starts to give it a crescent. Eventually
Speaker 1: it almost looks like a smiley face, and then totally
Speaker 1: lifts off the white. And then it's like if I
Speaker 1: look down the barrel of the gun and pull the trigger,
Speaker 1: it's like.
Speaker 2: Hits me.
Speaker 1: It feels like I get shot right in the head.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, I start feeling all
Speaker 1: that shit where it's I can literally feel my souls
Speaker 1: suck out the top of my head where the Jews
Speaker 1: put their little yamaga. I can literally feel go through
Speaker 1: my body. I have never felt so alive and toll
Speaker 1: I died. Shit, you not that is the one time
Speaker 1: I actually felt fucking alive is in that situation. And
Speaker 1: then when that happens, it's as if everything just melts
Speaker 1: right off of you. Every worry, every hate, every fear
Speaker 1: is fucking gone, and the only thing I feel and
Speaker 1: experience is a feeling of love that I never could
Speaker 1: even imagine.
Speaker 2: Here.
Speaker 1: It's better than any sex I've ever had, and it's
Speaker 1: better than any drug I've taken. It is ten times
Speaker 1: stronger than the feeling I've ever thought I felt of
Speaker 1: love here, and it just radiates, and you're just a
Speaker 1: part of something, and you're not thinking about your iPhone,
Speaker 1: not thinking about your boyfriend, what's going on on the news.
Speaker 1: You're actually just sitting there in love, which just existing
Speaker 1: so fucking different. And then as soon as you think itself,
Speaker 1: but damn, you're done, spright back to your body and
Speaker 1: your eyes open up fucking over. You just disconnected yourself
Speaker 1: from God because you're thought of yourself.
Speaker 2: I look at it as I walked away from God,
Speaker 2: and I'm the one who has to do the work
Speaker 2: to get back to him.
Speaker 3: How does one get back to God?
Speaker 1: I honestly think prayer, meditation and rituals and being completely,
Speaker 1: utterly honest with yourself. I know it sounds cheesy, but
Speaker 1: a lot of meditation too.
Speaker 3: Do you think that that is part of your Do
Speaker 3: you think that that's part of your purpose? Is to
Speaker 3: be closer to God?
Speaker 2: Yes? I think that's everybody's purpose here.
Speaker 1: This may sound screwed up, but I think from a
Speaker 1: kiss to a senseless murder is all just showing the
Speaker 1: discontent of our soul being taken away from God and
Speaker 1: the source. This is all acts of just us being
Speaker 1: uncomfortable in the skin, mourman, and we look for ways
Speaker 1: to feel better about it. That sounds hard, but I
Speaker 1: don't think we're meant to be here.
Speaker 3: Where do you think we're meant to be We're.
Speaker 1: Meant to be much better than this, so much great.
Speaker 1: We're meant to be free and to be love, because
Speaker 1: that's what we are, and that's what God is, pure
Speaker 1: love stuck.
Speaker 2: In the flesh.
Speaker 3: Why do you think that we're here? Then?
Speaker 2: I for me, I don't know. I made a choice
Speaker 2: for some reason. I think I don't know.
Speaker 1: I've even wondered over the fallen angels and we're just like, yo,
Speaker 1: we fucked up.
Speaker 2: I'm gotta get back, man, what do.
Speaker 3: You think happens to us after we die?
Speaker 2: We go somewhere else. It's not over.
Speaker 1: People should not, my opinion, don't fear death. It's gonna suck.
Speaker 1: You're gonna lose the things that you love and the
Speaker 1: stuff that you're attached to. But you're gonna have another
Speaker 1: experience again. Might be a blade of grass or a.
Speaker 2: Cat, and maybe you'll look out and actually be a cat.
Speaker 2: Fuck I like that. Next time. Fuck you give me
Speaker 2: food and let me sleep off fucking day, yo, for.
Speaker 1: All you know when those guys it was a sleeping
Speaker 1: all day that jumping the bits themselves will meditate. They
Speaker 1: gotta bat. Might have a great fucking life in the
Speaker 1: head being able to clean up my shoe and give
Speaker 1: me food all day.
Speaker 2: It was got a meat, you know.
Speaker 1: But uh no, I honestly do think energy is just energy.
Speaker 1: Uh it's not destroyed. We will continue to go on
Speaker 1: some fashion of form. I think the whole thing though,
Speaker 1: with reincarnation, I think for the most part, there's no
Speaker 1: memory of the past.
Speaker 2: That's the problem. I think.
Speaker 1: Having an experience in magic, you can have the memory.
Speaker 1: That's the difference.
Speaker 3: So if I if I correct me, if I'm wrong.
Speaker 3: For a while, you felt like you didn't really want
Speaker 3: to exist, and this crossing into the BIST has giving
Speaker 3: you hope and giving you reason to continue.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'd never I don't think I knew who
Speaker 1: I was on my purpose was until then. Like I've
Speaker 1: said before, I'm not trying to knock it because I
Speaker 1: was one of those people always going around and thinking,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, ud do what that wilth I know, you know,
Speaker 1: if it's my will, I'll do it. I did not
Speaker 1: know who I was or what my will was until
Speaker 1: ife crosed the abyssess the smike, which.
Speaker 3: For anyone who doesn't know anything about the Lima as
Speaker 3: one of the basic tenets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately people twist it and I've seen people in
Speaker 1: the orders, you know, conspiracy through It's like, do you
Speaker 1: ever forget about the whole the love is the Law part?
Speaker 2: Do we forget about that?
Speaker 1: Because that actually sounds pretty fucking sweet, doesn't it?
Speaker 2: Love is the law? Man.
Speaker 1: That's just wrong with that, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: you know, do what that will? That whole phrase you
Speaker 1: know that includes love is the Law? Why do people
Speaker 1: fuck this whole thing off?
Speaker 3: Okay, I have a challenging question, and we don't have
Speaker 3: to include this. If you think that love is so important,
Speaker 3: why don't you want to stick up for people who
Speaker 3: are less privileged.
Speaker 1: Than you, Because I think if we all had these experiences,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't even be in these positions.
Speaker 3: But we don't all have those experiences.
Speaker 2: Well, I think we need to though.
Speaker 1: I would even say if you just start practicing at
Speaker 1: what I'm saying to do to have an experience with God,
Speaker 1: people would change regardless if they even had the experience.
Speaker 3: But I think in order to have your experience, you
Speaker 3: need to have a certain amount of privilege maybe and
Speaker 3: in order to access that privilege, and we need people
Speaker 3: like you to help other people who are less privileged.
Speaker 1: But I do think this is a bad example. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: and it's just maybe you picked the wrong order. I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure there's the two and I forgot his name.
Speaker 1: That was, you know, major name of the oto that
Speaker 1: did cross the abyss from his jail cell. So I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean you even do have who's that kid from
Speaker 1: the West Memphis three? He did pretty well for him selfie.
Speaker 3: And locked up Damien Eccles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I'm just playing Devil's I forget him
Speaker 1: playing with you.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: But well, I think that there's something to be said
Speaker 3: about having your needs met, and I mean in jail,
Speaker 3: like you guess your basic needs are met? Yeah, but
Speaker 3: you have nothing else to do. But I wouldn't. I
Speaker 3: went in suggestion.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to sit it here and condemn myself
Speaker 1: for the unfortunate fucking way I was born. I did
Speaker 1: not ask it to be born in Suffolk County by
Speaker 1: a white fucking family with privileges.
Speaker 2: I can't help that. I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: I don't think you need to apologize for it. But
Speaker 3: I do think that there's something to be said about
Speaker 3: helping other people if you do have privilege.
Speaker 2: What do you think I'm doing with this podcast? I'm
Speaker 2: helping motherfuckers all day?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Sure?
Speaker 2: So why do I got to get specific on it?
Speaker 1: Because if I stick up for one, there's obviously division
Speaker 1: from the other.
Speaker 2: I'm not playing that game.
Speaker 1: My message is for everybody, and when it comes to
Speaker 1: politics and everything else, I don't give a fuck. I'm
Speaker 1: here for people to have a connection with God. Everything else.
Speaker 1: You have a million other people to go listen to
Speaker 1: for that.
Speaker 2: That's not me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's enough motherfuckers out there with the shit you're
Speaker 1: talking about running their mouths all day.
Speaker 2: Go listen to them.
Speaker 1: I'm here to have a conscious with God and that
Speaker 1: eliminates everything else.
Speaker 2: Sorry, yeah, I mean, I.
Speaker 3: Don't think you need to apologize for it. I'm just
Speaker 3: I'm just curious on your standpoint because to me, I
Speaker 3: feel like if you have a certain amount of privilege,
Speaker 3: you get certain amount of access, which is one of
Speaker 3: the things that I've noticed a lot about ceremonial magic
Speaker 3: is a lot of it comes with comes from privilege
Speaker 3: and having the time and having your needs already met
Speaker 3: so that you can access certain things and have certain
Speaker 3: time for certain things. Not everyone. Ceremonial magic is not
Speaker 3: accessible for everyone. So it's just an interesting conversation that
Speaker 3: I'm wanting to pick your brain about.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, well one thing, and again this isn't
Speaker 1: to go back and forth.
Speaker 2: One thing I do want to add.
Speaker 1: After the first experience that I had when I crossed
Speaker 1: the Abyss, I was again blown away, taken back, and
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what, I think, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna cut down to the basics and I'm just going
Speaker 1: to meditate. I did no rituals, I lit nothing, I
Speaker 1: just sat in a chair and I meditated. And I
Speaker 1: still did it three more times. I just needed to
Speaker 1: sorry to Saint and close my eyes. Yeah, I'm not
Speaker 1: just you know, I'm not trying to go back at you,
Speaker 1: but I'm just saying, like that costs me nothing.
Speaker 2: Meditating.
Speaker 3: Meditation is free, and I agree that meditation is an
Speaker 3: incredible tool that everyone has.
Speaker 2: Right, I do get what you're saying.
Speaker 1: I'm not discrediting what you're saying because I will say
Speaker 1: and this is this is even a thing I'm going
Speaker 1: to cover in one of my herbs.
Speaker 2: So this might be a little controversial.
Speaker 1: I'm coming out with an art book and its effects
Speaker 1: on the nervous system. Where am I going with this?
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of how the way I'm gonna
Speaker 1: word this. There's a lot of times where I think
Speaker 1: if you're looking at the what you're using that herb for,
Speaker 1: when you burn it and it affects your vegas system
Speaker 1: or your cranial nerves, you're going to think whatever you're
Speaker 1: doing actually worked because it's.
Speaker 2: Going to give you that sensation, believe it or not.
Speaker 1: Long story, short, it's a very expense to actually be
Speaker 1: a ceremonial magician if you want to start fucking with
Speaker 1: all these nerves and all these crystals and all these
Speaker 1: things that I actually don't think is one necessary to use.
Speaker 1: But unfortunately, the way the community I think has grown,
Speaker 1: the more trinkets and things you have, the better of
Speaker 1: a magician you wire. So we I myself included, probably
Speaker 1: spent way more money than I should have on crystals,
Speaker 1: believe it or not, and now I look back at
Speaker 1: it and just think it was a waste.
Speaker 2: But yes, if you want to get into this stuff,
Speaker 2: odds are.
Speaker 1: It's going to be expensive if you want to do
Speaker 1: it the way it seems to be being done visually everywhere.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: I mean you look at if you look at you know,
Speaker 1: certain Buddhists as a certain again, like I'm even covering
Speaker 1: a well for an event that I've been possibly asked
Speaker 1: to speak at.
Speaker 2: Uh, there was a topic I was going to cover.
Speaker 1: With uh, shamanism and des Fuck, I totally forgot where
Speaker 1: I was going with this.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. I just had a brain forward.
Speaker 3: Okay, we're talking about herbs, so we can move into
Speaker 3: kind of like how you find sovereignties. So like you've
Speaker 3: gone through this crossing the bits multiple times and it's
Speaker 3: kind of giving you purpose and brought you closer to God.
Speaker 3: How has the occult in that experience like really changed
Speaker 3: your life? Like you wanted to be less of a
Speaker 3: shitty person? Do you think that you now are a
Speaker 3: less of a shitty person?
Speaker 2: Yeah? In some ways, yes, in some ways I still
Speaker 2: have to change. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Of course I've made horrible decisions and choices since I've
Speaker 1: been podcasting.
Speaker 2: You know, keep it real, I'm human. Uh, But no,
Speaker 2: it does. Uh.
Speaker 1: If I stay true to what the vision is that
Speaker 1: I had for this show and don't try to sell
Speaker 1: my self too much, I feel very fulfilled and feel
Speaker 1: like I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. You know,
Speaker 1: in podcasting maybe it's hard for people to understand. But
Speaker 1: like in my opinion, unfortunately I can't tell you about
Speaker 1: the the Colt community. I would probably assume, but in
Speaker 1: the conspiracy community, things may not be what it seems.
Speaker 1: You're gonna probably have to, oh cook for a click
Speaker 1: or somebody that's in a club to get anywhere.
Speaker 2: It's gonna take a lot, a lot of hard work
Speaker 2: on your own and I would refuse to do that.
Speaker 1: So there's times it's just like, you know, maybe you
Speaker 1: will entertain guess that you normally wouldn't, just to get
Speaker 1: your name out, you know what I'm saying, or just
Speaker 1: do certain things you're using the other person really for
Speaker 1: a name, keep it real. I'm not comfortable with doing
Speaker 1: that anymore. That is a huge thing that's done in podcasting.
Speaker 1: So I just actually try to keep to what I
Speaker 1: think my purpose is and if I have to just
Speaker 1: do more work to get that done. You've seen yourself.
Speaker 1: I do a lot of solo shows now. That is
Speaker 1: because I don't want to start veering off the path
Speaker 1: just to try to get more fame.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Uh So when I am doing that, I feel very fulfilled.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm doing something. I feel better about myself,
Speaker 1: My days go better. You know, things happen that it
Speaker 1: was supposed to happen. You know, doors open up for
Speaker 1: me that I didn't even know as possible, never thought of.
Speaker 1: I mean just even honestly meeting you. I mean that's
Speaker 1: just you knowing Ivy, that was just something I never
Speaker 1: would have thought. I mean I knew who Ivy was
Speaker 1: two years ago. I was trying to get her on
Speaker 1: the show, but it's just, you know, certain things, even
Speaker 1: other ocultist I've had on the show, like blown Away,
Speaker 1: that like I even got to have a conversation with them.
Speaker 1: Never would have thought five years ago I'd have been
Speaker 1: doing that, you know, And I get to learn, and
Speaker 1: that makes me feel good too.
Speaker 3: I feel like when and one thing that.
Speaker 1: Just when I add just real quick, the one thing
Speaker 1: too and again kind of like maybe what I was
Speaker 1: saying to you before, there were so many people that
Speaker 1: already covered the occult in certain ways. I want to
Speaker 1: look at it a little bit different, and I do
Speaker 1: feel like that's actually being entertained and appreciated and people
Speaker 1: aren't thinking I'm crazy, And when they actually look at
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, they like, oh, this guy might be
Speaker 1: onto something. So that makes me feel a little bit
Speaker 1: better too. It makes you It's totally honest, But yeah,
Speaker 1: I try to look at it, you know, again from
Speaker 1: the science side and the eyeball, you know, I did
Speaker 1: a whole series on the eyebowl symbolism and even stuff
Speaker 1: with like you eventually, when I show stuff from Italy
Speaker 1: and Rome, the tons of eyeball symbolism. I think that,
Speaker 1: but you know that seems to be catching on and
Speaker 1: I you know, that's cool. I like that it's a
Speaker 1: little bit different. Again, like I said, it's not all
Speaker 1: Dixon demons. There are some science I think into it.
Speaker 3: What would your advice be to someone who's like trying
Speaker 3: to find inspiration or trying to find sovereignty or maybe
Speaker 3: are and a similar place before you had your experiences.
Speaker 1: Cheesy as it is, probably uh, meditate and pray hmm,
Speaker 1: And I think you'll end up getting answers that way.
Speaker 1: Either it will be like just weird decisions jamake or
Speaker 1: and idea that pups into your head. As cheesy as
Speaker 1: it is, I do think if you talk to your
Speaker 1: higher self talk back to you at some point, if
Speaker 1: you're being honest. That just sounds cheesy, But I really
Speaker 1: do think prayer, meditation and letting go of the fears
Speaker 1: and as if you're willing to get there where you
Speaker 1: want to go, and just keep putting the one foot forward,
Speaker 1: you'll get where you're going. You'll get where you want
Speaker 1: to go. You know, you know I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: like not pushing it too hard, but I do think
Speaker 1: like you may have to drop some fears, you know,
Speaker 1: but it will be well worth it after the fact.
Speaker 1: I can say something a little bit more serious or
Speaker 1: granther than that, But I really do think I.
Speaker 3: Think that's very serious, and I think that there's something
Speaker 3: to be said about the simplicity of it. While meditation
Speaker 3: is not simple, you know, it takes a lot of
Speaker 3: a lot of work and dedication for a lot of people,
Speaker 3: especially in the day, in today's day where we really
Speaker 3: struggle with stimulation, addiction and the way that our like,
Speaker 3: you know, we're constantly over inundated with stimulations. Sitting with
Speaker 3: oneself is incredibly difficult. But it is accessible to everyone.
Speaker 3: Maybe not everyone has quite as much time because of
Speaker 3: bread and stuff like that, but yeah, if you can
Speaker 3: find I.
Speaker 1: Was doing that shit at three thirty in the morning,
Speaker 1: I was like, it sucks. I don't want to do
Speaker 1: this before I go to work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But I mean, like, you know, it is accessible
Speaker 3: to everyone, and it is free, and I think that
Speaker 3: there's something to be said, especially people who are newer
Speaker 3: to like the magic sphere from the outside you said,
Speaker 3: there's like crystals, and like the way that capitalism has infiltrated,
Speaker 3: the way that we.
Speaker 1: Oh god, Yeah, that is horrible too. The amount of
Speaker 1: money you got to pay for this shit is Yeah,
Speaker 1: discuss going on about that when you're right. The capitalism
Speaker 1: and the witchcraft community is fucking disgusting.
Speaker 3: It's a lot.
Speaker 1: It's like, Yo, why can I go walk into a
Speaker 1: bodega and by the same herbs and a bag they.
Speaker 2: Have the price?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't have the pretty label on it though,
Speaker 3: it's just as good. Yeah, Or I would say you
Speaker 3: can actually eat if you want to, Yeah, sure, Or
Speaker 3: connecting to plant spirits outside and maybe switching out correspondences
Speaker 3: for things that like feel that energy and ask yourself
Speaker 3: to use your own intuition. Ultimately, Like, I feel like
Speaker 3: there's power in that magic is accessible to everybody, But
Speaker 3: I think that a lot of people who are new
Speaker 3: to this space don't quite understand. But when I think
Speaker 3: that first and foremost, meditation is accessible to everyone, but
Speaker 3: you have to keep working at it. And I think
Speaker 3: that there's something very beautiful and poignant about the simplicity
Speaker 3: of your answer. What are you currently booming into? How
Speaker 3: can people find you? What exciting projects do you have
Speaker 3: coming up?
Speaker 2: I do have.
Speaker 1: I'm working on some solar and lunar temples that are,
Speaker 1: you know, just something like basic info about them.
Speaker 2: I'm working on.
Speaker 1: That to put out I do have uh I should
Speaker 1: be working on Johanna's Kepler soon. That is one thing
Speaker 1: that I do do on the Occult Rejects. I try
Speaker 1: to cover a lot of people from the past, a
Speaker 1: lot of them. Actually, I've been taking off the Gnostic
Speaker 1: Saints list from the OTO. I don't even think half
Speaker 1: the people notice that I'm doing that whatever, And plus
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of just like, you know, it's
Speaker 1: funny in my mind. It's kind of like for the
Speaker 1: people that have like a bad idea about it, it's
Speaker 1: like if you start realizing you like all these dudes
Speaker 1: I'm putting on there, it's like it's almost kind of
Speaker 1: like I'm trolling them, you know what I'm saying, These
Speaker 1: all the Gnostic Saints, but yet you should on the
Speaker 1: OTO and you fucking enjoy these people, and it's just
Speaker 1: funny to me.
Speaker 2: So but no, I do do a lot of that.
Speaker 1: So I have like a solo Gianna's Keppler show that
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be working on. One thing I will be
Speaker 1: covering soon. If some people are interested in like actual
Speaker 1: video stuff. I have been to under Maya Park that
Speaker 1: was in the Bronx and it's like a cult stuff
Speaker 1: behind it, a lot of architectures, some really cool stuff.
Speaker 2: I did a lot of filming and I got a
Speaker 2: lot of drone work.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put that out soon and me of the
Speaker 1: other Rejects, we'll cover some of the symbolism and you
Speaker 1: know just pointed out and even Corol Castle in Florida,
Speaker 1: I've been too recently and I got a bunch of
Speaker 1: footage from there. We should be showing you like the
Speaker 1: architecture and all that stuff, you know, because I do
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of magic going on in a
Speaker 1: lot of those megalists and architecture and stuff. I do
Speaker 1: think when you start looking at how all that stuff works,
Speaker 1: I think that's another form of magic in a sense.
Speaker 2: So I cover all sorts of things on the show.
Speaker 1: So if people are interested, I got that stuff coming up,
Speaker 1: and it is the Occult Rejects and.
Speaker 2: That is available on bit shoot, Rumble, YouTube and.
Speaker 1: All major podcasts might be able to check it out
Speaker 1: on Twitter Live. Sometimes I don't have the live, but
Speaker 1: other guys on the show do when they stream out,
Speaker 1: So yeah.
Speaker 3: Hey, thank you so much for being here. I'm so
Speaker 3: grateful for your time and your story. I really, really
Speaker 3: I appreciate andful to have your vulnerability and you sharing
Speaker 3: so much about yourself with us. It is a really
Speaker 3: big deal. If you like this conversation today, I would
Speaker 3: like to see more in my work. Please consider subscribing
Speaker 3: to my channel, and if you're already subscribe, thank you
Speaker 3: so much for your support. You can further help support
Speaker 3: my work by liking, commenting, sharing. All of it helps
Speaker 3: keep the sacred work flowing. I'm also on Instagram if
Speaker 3: you would like to follow me there underneath my name
Speaker 3: Serena Saint Sinclair. Thank you so much for being here,
Speaker 3: and it's always May your path be sacred, your shadow sovereign,
Speaker 3: and may you always blue and wildly. I'll see you
Speaker 3: next time. I'm going to cut that out. You're going
Speaker 3: to get me in trouble. I think you're being honest.
Speaker 3: You're trying to get me canceled. And first of all,
Speaker 3: we already argue about politics, and now you're telling me
Speaker 2: I'm sorry