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Speaker 1: This is the first big problem exactly, Snack. I mean,

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the accusation is that there are multiple schismatic Orthodox claiming churches. Uh.

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And yet the problem is that these schisms occurred in

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his mind when it was a Roman Catholic Church. Right

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in his mind, the first millennium of the church is

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the Roman catholc Church. And so to cite these as

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quote schisms of the Orthodox Church is utterly stupid. I

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mean that that's like right away a totally bogus argument

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on his own grounds.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And the worst but he complains and even goes

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into soli you know, which as yet is that every

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schism is is based on pride, and every schism by

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definition is bad. But here by blaming it on us

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is causing a schism hundreds of years before before the

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actual schism happens. Because you see, you see that everything

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that that is good and in anti church, he would

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claim for Rome or that it would it would claim,

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you know a lot of things, a lot of good

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things that happen in the West, you know, which was

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the also at the time, you know, the United Church

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to be specifically a Roman and everything that's bad that

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happens in the East will be you know, specifically Orthodox,

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which is already contradicting its church view because according to them,

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we started popping into existence after a schism. But here

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not only is the saying that we existed before, but

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this is already splitting the church. So this is a

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geographic understanding. It's very wrong because it's saying that Rome

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was never a universal church. Is conflating the Catholic Church

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and the undivided Church with the Roman patricket alone, which

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is a huge problem. So here we already we already

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see that this is a lack of knowledge of early

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church history, especially the two thousand years. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I want to point out too from a

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logical perspective, which by the way, the Roman Catholic Church

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is grounded in a classical foundational epistemology, not just in

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their acceptance by Leo the thirteenth of the Tomistic system

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of philosophy, but also at Vaticant one. You have the

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acceptance of the normative way that you know religious claims

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are true is through just going and investigating the evidence.

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In fact, he's wrong when he says that the way

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that you know the Romancolic Church is true is to

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just not worry He literally says to not worry about

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the objective evidence, because that's just going to turn into

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people fighting with one another and throwing disputed documents back

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and forth. You just pray about it, literally like a

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Mormon level to your argument, like there's a burning in

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my bosom when I prayed about it, and so I

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knew that the issue was my own pride. Well, that

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is not an argument. That is a subjective emotional appeal.

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It's a form of emotional appeal, not a valid argument

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for how we would know the papacy is true, and

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in fact, the papacy itself. When it defines how we

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know the papacy is true at the beginning of Vatican One,

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it talks about the fact that you just go and

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you investigate the history of religions and the history of

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the institution of the papacy, and it will be manifest

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to everybody who looks at the evidence that it's the true, historical,

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continuous teacher of the faithful, and it's never erred in

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all this stuff, all the claims of Vatican One. Right,

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So he doesn't even use the Vatican One definition of

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how we're supposed to know that the Roman Catholic Church

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is the true church. He uses a subjective appeal, and

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that's what really stuck out to me throughout this discussion

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was that there was almost no theology in this. It

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was all about problems in history, subjective emotional appeals, and

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the ultimate claim, which we'll eventually get to, which is

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just that it's a pragmatic thing. Bro. Look, we just

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need a pope, come on, right, we just need the

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pope and it'll solve the problems. But we're going to

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see that their own stream everything Taylor Marshall is about

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disproves that claim because he spends his whole ministry now

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fighting against Frank as a trad Right, So Taylor Marshall's

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on the trad trek which we've all many of us

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have been on at some point. Right, Taylor Marshall's about

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where I was at in about two thousand and three

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or four, Right, I was just at the two thousand

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and three is when I first started going to the

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SSPX Latin mass and Marshall is edging towards this kind

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of SSPI exposition, right, I mean he's not there yet,

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you know. Whatever, He's he's putting himself as the face

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of kind of the recognize and resist view on the papacy.

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But we'll get to all that Vatican two stuff later.

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I just want to point out that, uh, you know

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this the way it started out, it just really started

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sinking quick, and I really expected better from these guys

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are supposed to be representatives. But the metre fact that

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they think Ericabara is the best Roman cathocha apologist. I

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think it says a lot Ergabar has a play darift

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and he's terrible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so yes, Actually it's extreme, starts to deconstruct

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and dissolved itself quite quite quite fast, and it's starts

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the beginning to start to contradict each other. So in

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the same burd at thirteen minutes, when he experiences his background,

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Sanders says that emotionalism is bad, and then he will

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go on, you will go on saying, is that actually

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the reason for his conversion is emotional which which is

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even even contradictions set when he introduces it, like is

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is you know.

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Speaker 1: A Yeah, so he begins by he begins by saying

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that you've got to be consistent. Uh, well, the Orthodox

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Church is full of contradictions. And then he turns around

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and uses an emotional appeal and contradicts himself. So it's

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it's back and forth.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: There's not a lot of consistency in this argumentation. But

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let's move on to the next uh problem, which is

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his next claim is the Orthodox Church is a whole

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bunch of different churches. Again, that's not true. And by

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the way, the the idiocy on their part in terms

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of their own church I think was pretty amazing because

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it's almost like they had no knowledge of uniotism right now.

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I mean, Flanders knows about the Uniates and whatnot, but

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Taylor Marshall seemed to be completely lost in this realm.

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And the idea that there aren't national churches or national pride,

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or that there's not national uh uh ism you could

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say within the world room is laughable. And by the way,

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they don't even know about all the problems within the

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world of unionitism. How unionism has multiple contradictory claims. Unionism

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many of the union its they don't accept Trent Uh.

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They will revere people that for centuries were considered heretical

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in the Roman Catholic Church. They revere people in their

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liturgies that are officially heretical. And then as you pointed out,

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I did want to mention too, the point about Isaac,

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this Syrian. Now, this is really one of the key

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ways too, I think totally deconstruct their their stream was

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the Taylor Marshall's ignorance on his own church comes to

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the four when we look at Saint Isaac, the Syrian right,

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people were he thought he got this gotcha on people right,

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the Orthodox, except Saint Isaac as an historian, saint just

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saying like he thought this was a big gotcha moment.

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Why is that not a gotcha moment?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a sopful. And what's great is the

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Units is that you know, every single like you will

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you will criticize the Actually that's probably why he doesn't

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want to criticize it. To mention this stream, but you know,

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doctor Tayler Marshall will criticize or theology, he will criticize

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you know, saints, you can even criticize all right, But

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the problem is even though discipline, But the problem is

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ultimately the units have the same saint as us, They

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have the same rights as us, discipline as this. The

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only difference is that they submit to the Pope. Yeah.

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Actually in attacking in attacking us, on something else in

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the papacy, he will actually attack his own church.

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Speaker 1: Attacking his church exactly. He doesn't realize his own church

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has multiple confessions of faith and multiple contradictory claims about

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whose saints are. So that was the first big gaff

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that he made right away. But let's get back to Flanders.

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So the other thing about the stream was that it

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was full of the pot kettle, the part calling the

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kettle black. Which, now, if we were to just exchange

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like arguments based on problems in the church, that would

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be one thing, generally speaking, because you can always say, oh,

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you got this problem, well, you got this problem, you

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got that from. Let's keep in mind that the Romancolic

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Church is a church built on a specific doctrine of

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the papacy. That is the key foundational doctrine, and they

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kind of stress that in their talk obviously, But it's

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different when we talk out talk about problems related to

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the magisterial claims of the papacy right and its contradictions.

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That's different than just talking about moral problems in this

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church versus moral problems in that church. Right, So we

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could throw liberals back and forth all day, which ironically

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they just cite a couple of liberal theologians from the

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from the Orthodox sphere, and they act like that's the

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voice of all of all Orthodoxy. Right, do we do that?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: If I could sit here and en list James Martin

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quotes all day long and be like, oh, bro, we

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got you, but he is not. Does he represent the

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entirety of the novis ordo or traditional Catholicism. No. Right,

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to be fair, he does not. But it does totally

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undermine the House of Card falls. System falls apart when

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we look at the magisterial and dogmatic statements of the popes.

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That's the key here. And by the way, Taylor Marshall

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has to understand, which I don't think he's gotten to

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this point yet, where he grasps that you do have

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to accept the ordinary, universal magisterial teaching of the papacy,

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and that includes their canonization of saints. So you're gonna

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have to accept John Paul the second as a saint.

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You're gonna have to accept Paul the six. You're gonna

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have to accept Johnny twenty third as blessed or whatever

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he is. All of these innovators and all of these

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guys who brought about this crisis in the Church, that

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this apostasy that they admit and talk about, they're gonna

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you have to accept them as saints. You can't reject

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ordinary universal magisterium. And canonizations are part of ordinary universal magisterium.

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So that means when he attacks Uni eight saints who

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were Rivera saints, he's attacking his own saints. That's a

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huge stupid mistake.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then just to remember to remind people unionism

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is not a Vatican two things. It started way before

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we've got to midway telling us that yes, after Florence

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is accepted, is accepted leven bread, that is, they did

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several creeds, did different kind of liturgy. It is absolutely

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not a Vatican two things. It's been like exist for

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a while. And actually they wild say that actually we

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latinize it to remove stuff some several paper and cyclical

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let's says that we cannot touch the right, we cannot

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touch the way they worship. And it just to this

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day several creeds and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Like this, right, Yeah, I had that in my notes

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later on that that how can you claim to be

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the Church with the magisterial faith of of one that

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you have one faith that will ensure and promote this

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unity when you have multiple creeds that your church confesses, right,

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uni Ads don't confess the Philly, okay, in the creed,

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but they're united to the rest of the world that

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professes the Philly in the Creed. And supposedly we're supposed

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to go, well, it doesn't ultimately matter because these two

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things are reconcilable. Actually, we're going to see that the

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two positions aren't reconcilable later on. But I just want

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to point out this point that when you do the

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appeal to pride thing, it has again a sort of

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false piety emotional appeal, Like, well, I realized how prideful

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I was, And the root problem of all the Orthodox

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people is their pride, and they need to be converted

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to the pope. And he actually appeals to original sin

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is what keeps us from being saved in union with

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the pope. This is bizarre, Like, so what's original sin

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ultimately effect? I mean, I know that they would say

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that it's you know, all of our sins, all our

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our you know, actions against the divine law and moral law, etc.

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Come from the root of original sin. But the whole

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force of this discourse consistently was Flanders saying that original

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sin is keeping you from recognizing the pope, which will

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lead to your salvation. I mean, because they're I mean,

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at least as far as I understood, they're kind of

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trying to toy with the Peene idea that there's no

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salvation outside the Roman Catholic communion, right, which Vatican two

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is completely contrary to, by the way, and numerous papal

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statements after Vatican Two were completely contrary to. And by

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the way, ecumenism did not begin at Vatican two. It

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began way earlier. Benedict the fifteenth was actually engaging in

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ecumenical actions early on BENEDICTA six fifteenth with the big

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supporter of the League of Nations. So I think the

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papacy there was cracks in the papacy far earlier than

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just Vatican two. But that's a different topic. My point

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is just that the bizarre statements that original sin is

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what leads us to deny the pope was hilarious because

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this is really a vindication of the Orthodox claim that

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really Roman Catholicism is sol of papem It's all ultimately

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about defending the papacy. That's why Taylor Marshall. I mean,

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most of his streams are about trying to fix the

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problems in Rome and the papacy.

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Speaker 2: Right, it is as good because you know, all throats

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the streams he composes to Presdent, which you know will

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will disagree as one who who skins him. Then we're

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going to discuss that when we'll talk about pride and stuff.

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But equals this president all throughout the stream. And then

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he makes an argument that sounds very colvinistic. You know,

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you're in total depravity. So by definition you are trying

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to you're you're trying to to refuse a papacy like

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it's literally you know, the fall of aid and causes

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you to to.

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Speaker 1: Total privaty, keeps you from being united with Frank, who

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they think, by the way, is pretty much a heretic,

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which is hilarious. So so he lumps the Orthodox then

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with everybody else. All Orthodox are just like all the

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Oriental Orthodox, which is objectively not true. Even though there

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have been meetings, there's still not any official recognition of

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sacramental sharing or uh liturgical recognition in the Diptics, right,

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so none of that. So the fact that people meet

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and by the way, Francis goes in praise in in mosques.

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By his logic, Francis is a Muslim, right now, He's

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not going to admit that. Well, I would actually say

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maybe he is right, like I'm a free Masonic Muslim

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because Francis goes in praise in the mosques. And Flanders

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argument was literally that some Orthodox people will go to

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a Coptic church. Therefore there is this sacramental sharing. And

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then he has to correct Taylor Marshall on the fact

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that their canon law actually allows them to go to

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Schismatics to receive the sacraments in extreme cases, which by

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the way, is an it's an innovation.

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Speaker 2: Is they even have a right to lie in order

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to get Eucharist in other places. It's also shows that

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they recognize that, you know, we have valid sacraments, which

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is one of the main thing about the church. Like

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how like what like if the sacraments work, if you

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have sacramental certainty, it means that you know, you can

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attain salvation, you can you can wash your sins, can

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you can be confessed.

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Speaker 1: Taylor Marshall doesn't even know that the nineteen eighty three

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Code of Canon Law and and Vatican two's allowances loosened

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this up to where you can go to receive sacraments

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from people that you are completely out of communion with.

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But that actually makes perfect sense if you're in a

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humanist and you accept all the uniates. I mean, if

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uniates are accepted in the Roman Catholic comunion with completely

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different faith, different canons and so forth, different saints, then

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of course you could why couldn't you go receive In fact,

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they even have canons and extremes cases where you can

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be baptized. You can ask an atheist to baptize you

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if you're on the point of death, which is utterly ludicrous,

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right their whole ex operato system, which we'll get to

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in a minute, with their misunderstanding of baptism. But I

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just want to point out that it was completely disingenuous

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to make the comparison to all of the Oriental orthodox

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with the fact that some people will go to a

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schismatic sect or something like that. And by the way,

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so all of those same problems that he thinks are

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probably Orthodoxy exist in the world room Catholicism all over

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the place, not in extreme cases. I mean, if you

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are a Roman Catholic you have within perhaps one diocese.

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Let's say I listed all my different options. I could

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go to the SSPX, which is split and by the way,

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they can't decide or figure out if you can or

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can't go to the SSPX if you're no asorto. Half

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of them think you can, have of them think you can't.

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So I could go to the SSPX, which itself is

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split between two people who want to go back to

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and reconcile with the papacy and the Bishop Williamson crowd

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type who don't want to and still but still recognize

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the popes right. I could go to a Uniate church

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which doesn't accept multiple ecumenical councils as normative in their theology.

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They might give a verbal accredence to it. Some of

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them will actually just outright deny it. They don't believe

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in purgatory, they don't care about Trent, they believe pallemism,

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quote unquote. But I could so is that the real

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Romancolic church I could go to. Yeah, I could go

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to an FSSP church which is in commune with Rome

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but has all the same ideas as the SSPX, because

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they're SSPX people who've been reconciled to Rome. Right, so

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there's that Latin Mass. I could go to a conservative

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Novasto church which professes to have problems in Vatican two,

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and do mental gymnastics on trying to reconcilt Vatican two,

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but we'll still accept it. I could go to a

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set of a contest sect or chapel, perhaps in a

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big city, which themselves will all be split amongst one another,

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claiming to be a Roman Catholic and claiming to have

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validity in valid orders. I could go to a dioces

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in Latin Mass which is different from all these and

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will perhaps have a different view than all of these people.

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Or perhaps I cant even find a crazy Conclavist Mass

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who perhaps has valid sacraments because perhaps their so called

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pope was ordained in the pre Vatican two, right. Or

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I could find a Jesuit clown mass hip hop Mass

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that I could say is the Roman Cathity. So within

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one city, I have this vast array of completely different

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faiths and liturgies, beliefs, perspectives on a dogmatic council and

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the pope for the last sixty years. But I'm supposed

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to believe that his analogy of some Orthodox people in

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the antioch In church he saw one time, go to

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a Coptic church that's equivalent to what I just listed.

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Give me a break.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they will not have the same creed, they

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will not have some ciology, so we'll know they will

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pray the saints like the Celibates Parlemas for example. Or yeah,

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if you go to to the historians to the killdean Catholic, say,

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Mike Celebrate, you know, is like the Syrian who you

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called an historian despite him not being an historian.

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Speaker 1: Right, he thinks it's not sat As Church, even though

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the units accepted as It's just it's just nonsense. And

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it's like they don't even know what they're arguing against.

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They're just shouting. It's like the the whole thing was

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like total basic bitch level stuff, Like they didn't even

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delve into anything with any substance. And that's because it

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was really just an appear to the masses. It was

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like a very low level kind of like just hoping

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that nobody's going to actually go and check any of

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these claims and just be swayed by, you know, just

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emotional appeals. Basically. Uh, the next point is that we

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are prideful and we don't figure out what we can't

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uh forgive, and we have grudges again, another emotional appeal.

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And let's let's I want to keep stressing that there's

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a reason why Flanders says, you cannot solve this matter.

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Don't look into history and the theology to solve this matter,

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because you're never gonna You're just gonna go around in circles.

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It's not an issue of object he says, it's not

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an objective fact issue. Really, really, I thought that that's

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what Vatican one says is the means in the way

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by which we solve the issue of the papac that

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you go look in the at the objective historical facts.

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But he doesn't want us to do that. He wants

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us to listen to what he thinks is the root,

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which is pride. Which, yeah, of course, pride and pride

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is the root of every sin, as Augustine says, and

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it's also the root of heresy, as the root of schism.

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But just to say that is just presupposing that your

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position is correct. Right, Maybe you're the ones that's in pride.

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Maybe your acumenical research at the Ukrainian Catholic University. Uh,

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in aid of NATO and whatnot. Maybe that was a

382
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source of pride. Maybe your thought that you you are

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going to solve the schism and your research to be

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a ministry of reconciliation. And he said, maybe that's pride.

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Speaker 2: It's terrible. So it says that, yeah, we we are

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unable to forgive. Actually you know, it's it's fine. We

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can we can forgive almost everything, but we can just

388
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come into community if heresy because you know, union is great,

389
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but you can only be united in truth.

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Speaker 1: Can be.

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Speaker 2: Like uh, you know, by this metric, you know the Romans,

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you know, the pagan Romans, when the person at Christians,

393
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:03,920
they wanted to be united with them, they persecuted them,

394
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,279
not because they worshiped Christ, but because they worship Christ only.

395
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,279
They wanted to be united. Before this area of Doma,

396
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,480
it was called the paxt the orom the peace of

397
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the Gods, so it was it was a union. So

398
00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:18,039
but by this metric, do you think your martyrs that

399
00:21:18,079 --> 00:21:22,039
were martyred by Rome, you know, who prefer truth instead

400
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,440
of union where they're prideful Christ themselves teaches that you know,

401
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:29,759
they will be schism Christ. Is that it brings the sword.

402
00:21:30,039 --> 00:21:32,559
I'm not saying that we should look forward to schism,

403
00:21:32,799 --> 00:21:37,240
but you know, just conflating any any sort of split

404
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,759
if being necessarily bad or prideful is is very wrong

405
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because and you know the same way conflating any action

406
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of unity as being necessarily good. You see, political unity

407
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is also a tool of the anti Christ.

408
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Speaker 1: Well, that's a great point that we're going to get to.

409
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So I mean, I mean, but this is the kind

410
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of reasoning that leads directly to patcha Mama right unity

411
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at the expensive truth. And by the way, all the

412
00:22:02,279 --> 00:22:07,119
reunion attempts the the reunionists, that was always their their

413
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driving modest operandi. I'm just reminded of the excellent book

414
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,839
by Papadaccus, Crisis in Byzantium, which deals with the Senator Blackernee,

415
00:22:18,319 --> 00:22:21,880
and it covers the fact that right after the Council

416
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of Lions which confirmed the Phillyoquay, the East met and

417
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had Blackerne, which condemned the Philly oquay, which, by the way,

418
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is binding a normative for Orthodox. And we'll get to

419
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one that's binding a normative Orthodox, because they actually touched

420
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on that in the stream. But you see the same

421
00:22:36,039 --> 00:22:40,240
designs for for motivations at the time of that reunion synod.

422
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You see the same problems at the attempts at Florence's reunion.

423
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And the problem is that it's great to have the

424
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desire for unity, but again it can't come at the

425
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expensive truth and the problem with ecumenism, and we know

426
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that that's the motivation of Flanders is one percent totally

427
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,200
a cumunist, and even admits us. He says, back when

428
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he was received in he was, oh, I was a cumnist.

429
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,599
Back then I was. He was always an acumenist. That's

430
00:23:04,599 --> 00:23:07,319
the problem. That's the root here is that the assumption

431
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,559
that I'm going to solve these problems because my heart

432
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and my motives are right, and I'm going to be

433
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the way I can help with this, I can heal

434
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:19,000
the That is pride. That is probably assuming that you

435
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,000
don't know, assuming that that you know better than all

436
00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:24,640
of these people who actually dealt with this problem for centuries. Right.

437
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,359
It's it's that's the pride here is not is not

438
00:23:28,519 --> 00:23:31,279
saying any any position that's not your position is pride. Right.

439
00:23:32,319 --> 00:23:35,960
So Isaac the Syrian, by the way, wasn't a Nestorian

440
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,480
at that time the Church of the East that he

441
00:23:39,559 --> 00:23:42,319
was a part of was actually in union with the Orthodox,

442
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,599
and he does not teach an historian ecclesiology or Christology.

443
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So so Marshall again has no idea what he's talking

444
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about when it comes to the East. But I knew

445
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:50,839
this about Marshaal ten years ago when we would debate

446
00:23:50,839 --> 00:23:53,599
the essen synergy distinction. He was totally lost, and he's

447
00:23:53,599 --> 00:23:56,079
still totally lost. He doesn't know why it's an issue.

448
00:23:56,079 --> 00:23:58,240
He doesn't get white even matters, And the exact same

449
00:23:58,279 --> 00:24:00,599
is true of Flanders. I've never since seeing a person

450
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,119
who goes from Orthodoxy to Rome who knew or grasps

451
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,559
why the essence introducinction matter. They couldn't tell you exactly

452
00:24:06,559 --> 00:24:08,680
what it is. They could say, well, it's like there's

453
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,480
a distinction between God's actions and essence or whatever. But

454
00:24:11,559 --> 00:24:13,920
like man, we're all just saying the same thing. No,

455
00:24:14,039 --> 00:24:17,000
we're not. And the Sinaut of Blackerne shows that the

456
00:24:17,079 --> 00:24:19,400
Orthodox Church knew that and has always known that it's

457
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,160
in our liturgy that we accept the essence introducinction. Saint

458
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:28,079
Gregor Palomas has entire debates right the debate with Barlem

459
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,200
over this issue and so it doesn't matter how many

460
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,000
ecumenists say that we can mess these positions, when the

461
00:24:34,039 --> 00:24:37,960
people who expounded these positions thought that then said very

462
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,799
clear that they couldn't be meshed. And all I have

463
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:41,720
to do to prove the Roman Catholic wrong on this

464
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,759
is to point out that for centuries they rejected Palomas

465
00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:49,039
and now they accept him. That shows you that your

466
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,359
church is false. It's not based on truth. It's just

467
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,680
based on power, temporal power and being under the pope.

468
00:24:56,759 --> 00:24:59,039
You can have as many faiths as you want as

469
00:24:59,079 --> 00:25:01,960
long as you accept Peter in their sense right, as

470
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:03,480
long as you accept And by the way, when I

471
00:25:03,519 --> 00:25:06,079
say Peter, they want Peter to be the head of

472
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,079
all the world religions. That's where this is going. And

473
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,079
by the way, you think that's crazy enough, Flanders loves Salavia.

474
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,880
That's what Slavia wanted Peter as ahead of world religions.

475
00:25:20,039 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I'd like to make a side note on

476
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,119
history because it brings up something that often comes up,

477
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,720
is is that we're prideful because we remember as a

478
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,839
fourth Crusade, uh you know, which is the second destruction

479
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:40,119
of Constantinople by a crusader army, which you know was

480
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,720
excommunicated by the pup for attacking the Catholic cities. But

481
00:25:43,799 --> 00:25:48,000
you know, this whole Cruisade thing started because they mistook

482
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,920
just war. If holy war, holly ward is a Muslim concept,

483
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,319
you don't get salvation by going to war. Killing someone

484
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,720
is always bad. You can you can be part of

485
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,839
just what. But if you kill someone, you can become

486
00:26:01,839 --> 00:26:04,480
a priest if you if your blood on your hands,

487
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,519
can go beIN the altar. And even since Basily says

488
00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:09,799
that yes, we can accept that you go to war,

489
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,119
but under under some circumstances, if the war is just

490
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,200
you cannot be a war for you know, persecution. It

491
00:26:16,279 --> 00:26:21,720
needs to be to defend Christians. So it's and you know,

492
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,920
like it doesn't cleanse your sins. And we're going to

493
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,160
see that rom itself today shows that the crusade where

494
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,799
not to defend Christians, because you know, Jerusalem has been

495
00:26:32,839 --> 00:26:35,359
under Moslim rule for quite a while at the time

496
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,839
of the first Cruisade. But the first crusade, you know,

497
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:44,759
the crusade thing only kicks off when when the skis them.

498
00:26:45,079 --> 00:26:48,319
So he says, we we are unable to yet to

499
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,319
forgive this. No, we can forgive you, We can forgive.

500
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:56,319
But what we cannot do is is forget or martyrs.

501
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,640
You know, if your revelations it's the martyr is the

502
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,680
blood mart as Christ Chris Evan and in Christ Christ

503
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,279
will avenge. So no, we just keep to tradition. What

504
00:27:06,319 --> 00:27:08,920
we don't forget is what happened also after the Fourth Crusade,

505
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,119
because during the Latin Empires there has been many persecutions

506
00:27:12,319 --> 00:27:19,440
of Orthodox Christians. Just after the Crusades, we also have

507
00:27:19,799 --> 00:27:23,400
a crusades starting in Russia. So it's not only against Byzantium,

508
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,519
it's against it's against Russia that you know, for example,

509
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,400
Saint Alexander Nevsky, he fought, uh, he fought some things

510
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,200
that happened if autunami of twutally crusaders and these totally

511
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,960
crusaders have been you know, evangelizing the Baltic for quite

512
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,519
a while, but they never attacked before the Fourth Crusade.

513
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,880
So actually after the Fourth Crusade you just said that

514
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,640
we are a fair game. We also criticize the units.

515
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,640
We have many many martyrs against the units we have

516
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:59,279
even Union Busantine Empires. We're in community Rome that persecuted

517
00:27:59,279 --> 00:28:03,599
and killed people. We have the Polish, the Polish York

518
00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:08,720
over the Ukrainians, and and of course we cannot forget

519
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,400
or martyrs, and they were killed specifically for for these reasons.

520
00:28:14,559 --> 00:28:17,160
Usually people counteract by saying, this has been the massacre

521
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:23,000
of the Latins in the in the it's the business

522
00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:25,440
an empire. If you look at it, it was not

523
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,480
done by the Church. Why did this happen? It happened

524
00:28:29,519 --> 00:28:33,319
because you had Venetians and Geneerans competing and they will

525
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,319
attack each other's suburbs. And actually, at some point the

526
00:28:36,319 --> 00:28:40,000
Empress said, okay, you know authority in my empire. You're

527
00:28:40,079 --> 00:28:42,880
trading rights and you started attacking each other in my empire.

528
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:51,640
I'm liquidating a part of the the Venetian carta is.

529
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,200
The Church doesn't have much to do with it. That's

530
00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:55,720
by the way.

531
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, he has, he has a speaking of he has

532
00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:59,920
a blog post where he touched on some of that,

533
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:02,279
and he that's the one of the blog posts where

534
00:29:02,279 --> 00:29:05,920
he says, don't worry about getting into this historical thing

535
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,319
of back and forth on the papacy, because you'll get

536
00:29:09,359 --> 00:29:13,880
into the question of forged documents supporting the papacy. And

537
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,319
we can't really know if those are forgs, are not?

538
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,640
Nobody even really knows. Do we even really know? If

539
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,480
those are forms? You're not? Actually your own Vatican admits

540
00:29:21,519 --> 00:29:24,039
that those are forgeries. What are you talking about? All

541
00:29:24,079 --> 00:29:26,759
of these key texts that prove the temporal power of

542
00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:30,039
the papacy, everything from donation of Constantine the Galatian to

543
00:29:30,119 --> 00:29:34,279
Creedles Is Asidorian, the Creedles right, the Simakian forgeries right,

544
00:29:34,359 --> 00:29:38,960
these all played into not just backing up the petrine

545
00:29:39,319 --> 00:29:43,400
succession of infallibility for Rome supposedly, but also in terms

546
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:48,519
of Rome's temporal power, which again obviously evolves into being

547
00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:52,200
what it is nowadays, the Papal states, the Vatican Bank

548
00:29:52,839 --> 00:29:56,440
a secular institution, something that Metropolitan Sera Fama Pireus calls

549
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,920
out very quickly in his his article that it's it's

550
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:04,160
it's largely about papal Cesero power, which is ironic given

551
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,119
their claims and critiques of Cero papism.

552
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,599
Speaker 2: Yep just finished the martyr So so yes, is it

553
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,599
called spiteful from members of martyrs, which is you know,

554
00:30:15,759 --> 00:30:20,079
ironic because they himself I have no problem forgetting their

555
00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:22,240
own martyrs. And you know, if you look at the

556
00:30:22,279 --> 00:30:27,359
Vatigan too. The calendar reform actually removed many, many saints

557
00:30:27,519 --> 00:30:30,480
from the calendar, some of which are martyrs. And you know,

558
00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:35,599
even before you had saints being faced out, they.

559
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,599
Speaker 1: Move saints from the calendar, Clement of Alexandria, Sigmon of Trent.

560
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,200
I mean, they can just move. It's like, how is

561
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,720
that universal ordinary magisterial. If canonizations are universal ordinary magisterian,

562
00:30:46,759 --> 00:30:49,160
which obviously they are, and then you can remove the saints.

563
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:50,440
It's it's ridiculous.

564
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's bogus, because you know,

565
00:30:54,359 --> 00:30:58,119
these people entered the church as the Orthodox fast the tradition,

566
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,519
and today they will tell you actually, you know instance,

567
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,000
you know, there's the paperwork about saints. It's not like this.

568
00:31:04,079 --> 00:31:06,640
There's no formal chanization of Saint Augustine, it's like this.

569
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,960
But apparently they can be removed this way. And at

570
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,240
some points it has been some backlash because at some

571
00:31:12,279 --> 00:31:15,519
points that removes Catherine of Alexandria, as they removed Saint George,

572
00:31:15,559 --> 00:31:18,960
and you know he later add them back. But oftentimes

573
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,559
in order to to they will remove saints and you know,

574
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,359
later cover up by saying, oh, you don't always there

575
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,480
is the other calendar. It's fine, is they removed Saint

576
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:31,440
Cyril of Alexandria. So they say that there apparently the

577
00:31:31,519 --> 00:31:34,160
church that have the authority of the Council of Ephesis.

578
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,240
But they were removed in Ceil of Alexandria because he

579
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,839
puts them some you know, he cast some shade on

580
00:31:41,839 --> 00:31:45,480
on the purp. So yes, also this proves that, you know,

581
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,519
the orthodox way of making saint center the church is

582
00:31:48,599 --> 00:31:52,759
part of the divinal human magisterium of church or church

583
00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:55,000
is a divin human entity.

584
00:31:55,559 --> 00:31:57,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean for the first millennium, So for the

585
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,279
first millennium there was a local phenomena in it still

586
00:32:00,319 --> 00:32:03,400
is an orthodoxy. Everybody. Nobody will admit that the Roman

587
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:08,519
Catholic pope in the first millennium is who confirmed all saints.

588
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,400
Everybody knows that's a post schism development in the Latin

589
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,799
Church because it's an innovation, because obviously it didn't work

590
00:32:15,839 --> 00:32:18,759
that way before. The pope didn't decide through the Roman

591
00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:22,920
see every single saint for the church. Now after the schism,

592
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,240
they do because it's an obvious innovation. So we are

593
00:32:26,319 --> 00:32:29,519
the traditional church, you're not, Yes, So.

594
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,079
Speaker 2: They will say it's it's messy and stuff like this.

595
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,039
It's being recognized by tradition. The first the first step

596
00:32:34,079 --> 00:32:36,319
for sanctity is actually not waiting for the pope to

597
00:32:36,359 --> 00:32:39,680
accept it's to to acknowledge a person as a same.

598
00:32:39,759 --> 00:32:42,160
So for example, today we have people who are making

599
00:32:42,319 --> 00:32:47,319
icons of of surfing, of surfing rules. Why because this

600
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,440
is this is the Orthodox way, and a thinks there's

601
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,839
a good Baptist argument works here is that you know

602
00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:58,359
the saints for us enter the church in this, you

603
00:32:58,359 --> 00:33:02,400
know divin a human tradition. For Rome, it can be

604
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,920
done and done. It's just about paperwork. So I couldn't

605
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,920
even argue that there is no sanctity in in sanctuary

606
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,160
in Rome because because they adopted this new thing is

607
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,960
just about paperwork. Tomorrow you can you can be canonized

608
00:33:16,039 --> 00:33:22,039
next day, you can be uncanonized depending on hobilities, you know,

609
00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:25,599
if it always a papacy. For example, sin Cemon of

610
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:31,200
Trent was was removed from the calendar because of the circumstances.

611
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: He's not acumenically viable given the history of a post

612
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,920
Vatican to Roman Catholicism. He's not ecumenically viable. So they

613
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,720
had to get rid of him. By the way. The

614
00:33:42,759 --> 00:33:45,839
next point in their talk was he attempted to try

615
00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:51,799
to comment on the Metropolitan Moscow patriarchy in the dispute

616
00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:54,839
with the EP and the problem in the Ukraine. Now,

617
00:33:54,839 --> 00:33:58,480
this is interesting again because he is from the university,

618
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,000
the Calm University and the Ukraine. So I think that

619
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,359
and we know that that's connected to the people at Fordham.

620
00:34:04,559 --> 00:34:07,079
We know that the ecumenists there have been working with

621
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,320
the Roman Catholics and the Uniates to undermine the influence

622
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:15,880
of the Russian Orthodox Church there and the Canonical Ukrainian

623
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,800
Church and Metropolitan NUFRI. That's all being done at and

624
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,159
fostered by NATO in the CIA. What's very interesting that

625
00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:23,159
they never even touched on this, and it's well known

626
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:26,639
in mainstream news, It's well known at good Orthochristian dot com,

627
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:31,480
countless articles describing and detailing the problems in Ukraine. No

628
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,119
mention of any of that, no mention of the problems

629
00:34:34,119 --> 00:34:36,519
of how acumenists are a big part of this. Right,

630
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:39,280
I thought, Taylor Marshall is not a big fan of ecumenism. Oh,

631
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,079
but if it's to undermine the Orthodox Church there, oh,

632
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:44,719
suddenly acumenism is good. Right, So, but that just goes

633
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,000
along with their you know, ends justify the means Catholic

634
00:34:49,039 --> 00:34:53,320
moral system that we get from Alfonsi's Lagwari. But he

635
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:55,880
talks about the rival. He says that that this is

636
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,400
crazy that one patriarch will be out of communion with another.

637
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,199
This is just crazy. Has he never read church history?

638
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,639
Does he not know of the countless examples of this

639
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,800
happening in the first millennium? And the pope didn't just

640
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,639
solve all these problems, right, He acts like this is

641
00:35:10,679 --> 00:35:15,440
something that's like just unique to like twentieth century Orthodoxy

642
00:35:15,519 --> 00:35:18,800
or nineteenth century Orthodoxy. This has happened in all kinds

643
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,760
of times in the first millennium. In fact, what's the

644
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:26,480
situation with the Synoty of Oak where Cyril of Alexandria

645
00:35:26,599 --> 00:35:30,119
isn't he out of communion with Christostom and Rome? Right,

646
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,519
So there's a period where they're out of communion. Saint

647
00:35:33,599 --> 00:35:36,039
John Chris Sistem for a long time in his life

648
00:35:36,039 --> 00:35:37,920
was out of communion with Rome. Right, So there's plenty

649
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,920
of examples of Canon twenty eight of Chalcedon talks about

650
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,199
the very thing that he doesn't even grasp, right, the

651
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,519
very thing that he says, acts like a some normative

652
00:35:46,559 --> 00:35:49,039
thing is right in the middle of the Council of Calcedon.

653
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:57,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, he says that quote at nineteen minutes, this makes

654
00:35:57,199 --> 00:36:02,239
no sense the facts that you have indirect communion. Look

655
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,199
at church history, you know, at seventeen minutes they say

656
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:09,679
that rivalry between the patricids are are showing that there's

657
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,440
a problem all the consuls. You know, to an extent,

658
00:36:13,519 --> 00:36:17,920
you've got rivalries between patricut and they are so so

659
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,719
bad as this isn't even acologies. They say that you

660
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,360
know that knows the African schism, if it's incipron of

661
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,440
cath that actually disagreeing perpet you know, it's happened, you

662
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,360
know during all this part where Rome was trying to

663
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,639
to show that that leadership of our Northern Northern africasm

664
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:36,639
graviation Cartho region and they say, but don't worry when

665
00:36:36,639 --> 00:36:38,280
when we think about it, it's it's just it's just

666
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:38,800
an exception.

667
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: It's been.

668
00:36:41,599 --> 00:36:44,320
Speaker 2: Like if you look at you know, the church always

669
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,760
had problems. You know, even Central Christistom says that hell

670
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,280
is paid the skulls of bishops. The CHURCHI always had problems.

671
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,480
The church always had always as these issues. But when

672
00:36:54,519 --> 00:36:57,280
we look at the kind of issues that both sides

673
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,639
are facing, we have the same issues as for the

674
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,320
Church of the first millennium. We have the same one.

675
00:37:04,159 --> 00:37:07,079
We have people disagree and and what's great is that

676
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:12,639
it is a disagreement right now. It's it's not about faith.

677
00:37:13,079 --> 00:37:15,760
We do not want to add things to decree. It's

678
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:21,599
mostly about jurisdiction. It's a it's it's a political squab. Actually,

679
00:37:21,679 --> 00:37:25,119
the fact that we diunited politically, because you know, Church

680
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:26,800
did not come to make an umpire. It said that,

681
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,000
you know, don't with Caesar. You give to Caesar what diseases.

682
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,960
So the fact that we're not united politically, you know,

683
00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:38,199
the fact that we're in competition just like the battery kids.

684
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,719
You know that inside the empire, it shows that we

685
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,599
need to be able to keep the theology is the best,

686
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,639
whereas they are united politically, and the things that you

687
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,760
just need to go up one person to destroy everything.

688
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,199
So there's a problem you're having are just as innovative

689
00:37:54,199 --> 00:37:57,119
as your dogma. The problem the Roman church is just

690
00:37:57,159 --> 00:38:00,280
as innovative as a Roman dogma. And now you can

691
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,840
you can just destroy everything there just one man.

692
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, is it not obvious from Nicia that

693
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,679
the structure of the church involved patriarchates and national bishops.

694
00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:14,000
Does that mean that we are confined and limited to

695
00:38:14,079 --> 00:38:17,599
some sort of strict nationalism. No, But I mean it's

696
00:38:17,639 --> 00:38:19,719
like these guys had never even they've never even read

697
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,360
the canons of the councils, Like they don't even know

698
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:23,519
the way that the councils operated. That they have no

699
00:38:23,599 --> 00:38:26,639
idea the fact that this was the normative structure, was

700
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:32,039
honor being given in these councils. And there's no comparison

701
00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:34,840
between the honor of the Bishop of Rome, nor does

702
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,480
a council determine the Bishop of Rome's local jurisdiction, nor

703
00:38:38,559 --> 00:38:43,239
can it be compared to Alexandria or to Antioch. Right,

704
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,039
but what do you see here in this famous canon

705
00:38:46,119 --> 00:38:46,719
of Nicia?

706
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 2: Right?

707
00:38:47,199 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 1: Have these people even looked at Nicia? Do they even know?

708
00:38:50,599 --> 00:38:52,119
Because all they do when they go to the church

709
00:38:52,159 --> 00:38:54,880
father the church fathers just exist to be to be

710
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:59,599
quote mined for papal supremacy, presuppositions. That's the only reason

711
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:01,559
that that's all they care about. They don't ever debate

712
00:39:01,599 --> 00:39:05,000
the theology, they don't ever talk about the Essen's interducetinction.

713
00:39:05,079 --> 00:39:06,800
They will talk about any of that stuff because all

714
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,079
they care about is proving solar paper. That's the only thing.

715
00:39:10,559 --> 00:39:12,800
And again duel Ingjur was correct when he said that

716
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,000
after Vatican One, all of a Catholic apologetics will be

717
00:39:16,159 --> 00:39:19,360
papal lawyering. It will be just nothing but trying to

718
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:24,000
prove that the papacy and Vatican One was always the case,

719
00:39:24,119 --> 00:39:28,360
when clearly the modus operandi and many, many, many examples

720
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,480
here you can see. I mean, if we were to

721
00:39:30,519 --> 00:39:32,679
say something like Canon six, they would be like, oh,

722
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,760
your national church is, bro, you got a bunch of nationalism.

723
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 2: Bro.

724
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,599
Speaker 1: You don't have like you got your pent archy, Bro,

725
00:39:39,039 --> 00:39:42,320
you got your patriarchist Bro. The patriarchal system is out

726
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,079
of the canons of the councils. Do you not understand that,

727
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,920
like this is the modus operandi.

728
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very funny because he says that we are

729
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,519
not the Church of the Seventh Council. We don't as

730
00:39:53,519 --> 00:39:56,000
the authority of the seven Council, but we keep the

731
00:39:56,039 --> 00:39:56,599
countons of.

732
00:39:56,559 --> 00:39:57,760
Speaker 1: Them, right, you don't.

733
00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:01,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, And and you know something that's very funny, like

734
00:40:01,679 --> 00:40:03,920
this Canon six, you will have some people who try

735
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,960
to turn the thing and say that actually it means

736
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,480
that Alexandria isn't the Rome. No, it says, and it

737
00:40:10,519 --> 00:40:15,519
says that very clearly in in this canon that Rome

738
00:40:15,559 --> 00:40:19,800
as extended jurisdiction, not because of Patron's supremacy, because of

739
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:20,800
we reco.

740
00:40:21,519 --> 00:40:24,519
Speaker 1: There's no, there's no mention of of that.

741
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 2: He actually actually goes on against the it's just great.

742
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,199
It goes on against the pain key by saying that

743
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,199
you know, it's it's not it's it was, it was,

744
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:44,480
it was developed. Yeah, it's part of tradition again the council, yes,

745
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,440
and it's And in order to to bring this argument,

746
00:40:47,559 --> 00:40:50,760
he brings up the Council of Constantinople One, which is

747
00:40:52,039 --> 00:40:55,079
this council is the best argument against the papacy even.

748
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,599
Speaker 1: Why why why has Constance album won such a great

749
00:40:58,679 --> 00:40:59,679
argument against papes.

750
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, so constant pul One. So it brings it up

751
00:41:03,599 --> 00:41:06,800
because it is a council that establishes Constantinople as being

752
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,280
a patriarchate before it was not patriarchet which is fine.

753
00:41:11,679 --> 00:41:14,199
We agree with this even today. You know, the EP

754
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:20,119
gets the Thomas from the patriarch of Hiraklion in recognition

755
00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:24,679
of that. But you know full well that they adhere,

756
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,920
especially especially Marshaled, to the idea of no salivation outside

757
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:35,639
the church. But this council in Neuran paper supremacy over

758
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,559
counsuls but was just great. And I have the Canon

759
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,599
of the Catholic Church that says that the Roman Pontiff

760
00:41:45,639 --> 00:41:47,920
Canon thirty thirty eight, the Roman Pontiff alone, as you

761
00:41:48,039 --> 00:41:52,920
can vook, the Commdical Council preside preside over it. The

762
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,199
second part it is to the Roman Pontiff to determine

763
00:41:56,199 --> 00:41:58,280
the matter to be treated in the council and established

764
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,320
order in the in the ops of council. So not

765
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,320
only the Pope was not present any of the seven

766
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:09,400
mecamical council the first ones. But actually this council was

767
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:14,599
convened in skuse be from because this council actually happens

768
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:21,920
during the controversy of Lucifer of Callier. So Lucifer Cacleary,

769
00:42:22,599 --> 00:42:26,800
who's the schismatic, refused baptism of people that were persecuted

770
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:31,840
in that our Chlesian And this council is convened excuse

771
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,679
of be from because at the time there are two

772
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:39,480
bishops of Pantioch, there is there is Belatius, and there

773
00:42:39,559 --> 00:42:44,519
is a Polinius. And Police is not recognized by by

774
00:42:44,639 --> 00:42:50,480
Jerusalem and Constantinople, whereas there's also yeah, Milicious is recognized

775
00:42:50,519 --> 00:42:54,800
by Cruz, Jerusalem and Constantinople, and Paulinus is recognized by

776
00:42:54,880 --> 00:43:00,519
Rome and Alexandria. So this council is convened by is

777
00:43:00,559 --> 00:43:06,079
the part that is supporting militious you know, Besis militant right.

778
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:08,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, Basil. This will come into play when I will

779
00:43:08,159 --> 00:43:11,679
read from Basil's letters, which are completely contrary to Vatican

780
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:14,360
one people supremacy. We'll see that that was nowhere in

781
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,920
Basil's mind. There's no way he could write the letters

782
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:19,239
he wrote if you believe the Vatican one view, which

783
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,840
again they have this curious thing where on the one hand,

784
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,840
they are constantly interested in proving the Vatican One mindset

785
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,320
from the first millennium of Christianity, and then they turn

786
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,320
around and will say and admit that there was no

787
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,800
Vatican One mindset. It's a doctrine that evolved and it's

788
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,519
something that came to clearer and clear evolutionary truth over tom. Now,

789
00:43:37,519 --> 00:43:38,960
wait a minute, which is it? Is it something that

790
00:43:39,039 --> 00:43:40,800
was always there would say, try to argue when they

791
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:43,800
go to Clement or to Pope Victor, or to Leo

792
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,639
or these people that they misuse or is it something

793
00:43:46,679 --> 00:43:49,400
that wasn't really clear but evolved, right, So they do

794
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:50,719
they do both things at once.

795
00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:54,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it makes us great about Constant nuple is

796
00:43:54,639 --> 00:44:00,800
that it's convenience schism be thrown and yet it is

797
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:06,760
an e commenical council. It it promotes communical truth. And

798
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,599
what does an ecumunical council mean? You know, a communical

799
00:44:09,639 --> 00:44:11,360
means that it's in the empire. But what does a

800
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:13,920
true council mean? One that we follow is one that

801
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,400
show the truth of faith. And this council show the

802
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:23,280
truth of faith, of faith, and that means the Holy

803
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,000
Spirit seals the decision. That means it's infallible, you know

804
00:44:26,119 --> 00:44:28,559
the paper and fallibility derections from this, you know, you

805
00:44:28,599 --> 00:44:31,559
know before it was only for true ecumenical council. Now

806
00:44:31,559 --> 00:44:33,360
it just was the perpect. This means that the Holy

807
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,440
Spirit operated at an ecomunic like in an a communical

808
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,239
council outside of the post, outside of the community. From

809
00:44:40,519 --> 00:44:42,119
that means that Rome was on the on the wrong

810
00:44:42,119 --> 00:44:45,440
side of a schism and even Meletius, who died during

811
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:46,039
this council.

812
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I stressed to look at the quality of the

813
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,599
content that s Neck brings to the stream, look at

814
00:44:51,639 --> 00:44:54,559
the quality of the content and depth that we go into,

815
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:59,199
and compare that to just the totally normy emotional appeal

816
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:03,119
that they did. That's why he says, don't go into

817
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,000
the actual claims. Just go by the fact that I

818
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:09,719
had a burning in my bosom at liturgy one day

819
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,440
that told me that I was in pride right, and

820
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,199
then they go on to this list, well, and they've

821
00:45:13,199 --> 00:45:14,719
got some problems and they don't have the pope. That's

822
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,360
the essence of that whole day. Look at where I

823
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,800
mean what. They didn't even mention a single canon. They'd

824
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,679
even mention a single objection right of something like Canon

825
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,599
twenty eight. Now he made Snack made a great point

826
00:45:25,639 --> 00:45:27,960
from constat the noble one. But the next council after,

827
00:45:28,639 --> 00:45:32,039
well there's ephesis and then you have Chalcidon. The reason

828
00:45:32,119 --> 00:45:33,960
I'm bringing Calcaton up is that if you look at

829
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,480
Canon twenty eight, which by the way, yes, the papacy

830
00:45:36,559 --> 00:45:39,440
later rejected, and obviously they had to reject it because

831
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,280
it doesn't fit with their paradigm. But we're bringing it

832
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,039
forth because what this shows us is the canonical procedure

833
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,119
of the church, the mindset of the church at that

834
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:54,000
time to propose this canon right and again yes, eventually

835
00:45:54,079 --> 00:45:56,920
the Bishop of Rome rejects this canon because he doesn't

836
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,360
like what's in that canon, obviously, but what it.

837
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 2: Shows is that because if the purpose supposed to reign

838
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,679
of all the council, what does he have to seek?

839
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,199
You know, the canon promoted.

840
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: And why why is it even there? That's the point.

841
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:16,079
The mindset of the council is concilier. Canons are concilier, right,

842
00:46:16,159 --> 00:46:20,679
Papal letters and dogmas are not right, So canons are concilier.

843
00:46:20,679 --> 00:46:23,199
And what does this canon say. It says that the

844
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:28,159
tradition of the fathers is what derives the patriarchy derives

845
00:46:28,199 --> 00:46:33,719
its honor and its rights from the tradition of the councils.

846
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:35,920
We saw that with Canon six and Nicia, and here

847
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,039
in Canon twenty eight of Chalcedon. What you see is

848
00:46:39,039 --> 00:46:42,360
that the rights and privileges of the throne of old

849
00:46:42,519 --> 00:46:45,559
Rome were because it was the royal city, and so

850
00:46:46,039 --> 00:46:49,280
constant and nobles should have equal rights and privileges because

851
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,880
it's new Rome, right, and so it should be magnified

852
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,559
as she is to the second in rank, and it

853
00:46:56,559 --> 00:46:59,800
should have all the same powers and prerogatives because of

854
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:04,679
why magical peter powers. No, because of divine excuse me,

855
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,239
because of the canons of the councils, and because of custom.

856
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,880
And so this custom, right is what is the basis.

857
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,360
And it's rejected by the pope obviously, right, so the

858
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,800
papacy eventually has to do. You think this is the

859
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,159
only example. There are multiple examples. I got a list

860
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,559
right here of all of the canons and all the

861
00:47:24,559 --> 00:47:27,800
ecamenical synods. Yes I have, and we're going to go

862
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:29,880
through some of these would show that each one of

863
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:32,679
these canons that's proposed in every economical synod, not all

864
00:47:32,679 --> 00:47:35,039
the canons, but each canon that we have as an

865
00:47:35,079 --> 00:47:40,079
example here is contrary to the attitude of Vatican One.

866
00:47:40,679 --> 00:47:44,079
And again notice the double think schizophrenia of the Roman

867
00:47:44,119 --> 00:47:47,000
Catholic apologists, who, on the one hand want to tell

868
00:47:47,039 --> 00:47:49,719
you that the Vatican one mindset was always there. It

869
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,760
was always there clear and at the same time, well,

870
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:54,800
it wasn't really there. It was evolving. It was just

871
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,400
a seed form right in the Cardinal Newman notion of

872
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,960
evolution of dogma. It was a seed form that was there,

873
00:48:00,599 --> 00:48:02,119
and it evolved all the way up to the time

874
00:48:02,159 --> 00:48:04,599
of Vatican One. And so the most important doctrine of

875
00:48:04,599 --> 00:48:07,079
the Church, which is not in the creed, totally absent

876
00:48:07,119 --> 00:48:10,719
in John Damascus's exposition of the the Orthodox faith right,

877
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,440
which they accept as a doctor of the Church, totally absent.

878
00:48:13,599 --> 00:48:16,320
Nothing there. It's the last thing that the Catholic Church

879
00:48:16,679 --> 00:48:19,199
defines in an ecumenical council except for Vatican one. Right,

880
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,119
So it took all the way up to the eighteen

881
00:48:21,199 --> 00:48:26,679
hundreds to define the doctrine that is the foundation of

882
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:28,440
the church and how you know the true church, and

883
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,639
it's not even in the creed. It's ridiculous.

884
00:48:32,519 --> 00:48:36,159
Speaker 2: Some things that's interesting is that during the Council of Constantinople,

885
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:41,800
the first one, Malicious was presiding or it died, and

886
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,519
Malicious is a saint, so he wasn't skism be from

887
00:48:46,119 --> 00:48:49,320
he died in schism, be from knowing about the schism,

888
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:56,000
because he was trying to mend it, and still is

889
00:48:56,039 --> 00:48:57,960
a saint. So not only is there is you know

890
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,800
a saint, is there is salvation outside of the Roman communion,

891
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:07,280
But there is also sanctity, sainthood, and there's also e

892
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,639
commenical councils, and that's some things. You know. They would

893
00:49:09,679 --> 00:49:13,280
say that, you know, this consul is only a communical

894
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,920
you know consernerable ones only a communical because the pope

895
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,199
accepted it. Yes, but it doesn't matter according to ecclesiology,

896
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,960
because it means that a really communical consul is the

897
00:49:22,039 --> 00:49:27,280
spirit falling on it your church today, will Marshall accept,

898
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,599
you know, in a communical consul if it was convened

899
00:49:29,639 --> 00:49:33,719
by you know, Pop Michael. You know Pop Michael is

900
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:35,719
in community with the church. He has the same theology

901
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,440
as as Marshall, who's not heretical according to him. If

902
00:49:39,559 --> 00:49:41,440
if I don't know Francis actually you know, if if

903
00:49:41,679 --> 00:49:44,480
Pop Michael makes an emmical consul and Francis accepted it,

904
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:51,239
will Marshall agree? Will do this? No, you won't. Exactly

905
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,480
is exactly what happened in the in the past. Of

906
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,760
of course you know they were not there was not

907
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:01,559
a trailer park, respect but still in kiss and be from. Yeah,

908
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,039
it's it's terrible sin to bring it up. And you

909
00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:07,400
know again, you know, really we don't have the potency

910
00:50:07,519 --> 00:50:10,559
of the consuls, But why don't you follow the canons?

911
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,039
Canon to ide is it was a great well.

912
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: The canons show us the mindset of the church, and

913
00:50:16,559 --> 00:50:19,000
it shows that they are innovators and that they don't

914
00:50:19,039 --> 00:50:21,039
follow the canons. Now we're not just pointing, We're not

915
00:50:21,039 --> 00:50:23,639
pointing the canons out like some sort of legalistic talmutic

916
00:50:23,679 --> 00:50:25,039
thing like, oh, you just have to follow it because

917
00:50:25,039 --> 00:50:27,239
it was an ancient canon. No, no, no. The point is

918
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,880
that the canons showed the mindset and the praxie of

919
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:35,480
the Church of that century universally, universally, and none of

920
00:50:35,519 --> 00:50:38,679
these canons prove or back up the Roman Catholic view.

921
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,280
It's something that evolves over time on the basis of

922
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,000
canonical privileges. And we see the exact same thing with

923
00:50:44,159 --> 00:50:47,400
Bartholomew now. Bartholomew now is trying to do the very

924
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,119
thing that the papacy did, which was to claim that

925
00:50:50,159 --> 00:50:54,199
all of these canonical privileges that were accorded to them,

926
00:50:54,599 --> 00:50:57,519
to the different patriarchates over over time throughout the centuries,

927
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,239
and the canons somehow now translates into a direct sort

928
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,519
of voice of God modus operandi. But if you look,

929
00:51:04,559 --> 00:51:07,199
for example at Canon four of Nicia, we want once again,

930
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,760
let's see again how the Romancolic Church after the first

931
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,679
millennium completely departed from the normative way of appointing bishops. Now,

932
00:51:14,679 --> 00:51:17,039
why would the pope want to appoint all bishops? Well,

933
00:51:17,119 --> 00:51:19,639
obviously to make sure that they all agree on the papacy.

934
00:51:20,079 --> 00:51:23,400
But now why if that's the case, why didn't Nicia

935
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,440
have the wisdom of the foresight to understand that the

936
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,159
pope should appoint every bishop in the world. Right? Who

937
00:51:29,199 --> 00:51:32,559
appoints bishops at the time of Nicia Canon Ford It

938
00:51:32,639 --> 00:51:34,320
is by all means proper that a bishops should be

939
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,199
appointed by all the bishops in the province. It's not

940
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:41,360
just the pope. And after the Renaissance it becomes normative

941
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,639
for the pope to sign off on all of the

942
00:51:43,639 --> 00:51:47,000
bishops in the world. Right. So again, at a basic, basic,

943
00:51:47,159 --> 00:51:50,679
fundamental level, they're completely ignorant.

944
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 2: Of history, right, yeah, yeah, you're saying canons is the

945
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:59,079
current canons of a Catholic Church. It's they basically contadixase canons.

946
00:51:59,079 --> 00:52:03,679
Some things that's interesting is that even says that there's

947
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,360
a need for the nice in Creed. But why is

948
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,960
it not present in the niceten Creed? If if that's

949
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:11,119
the things that ultimately matters, you know, if salvation is

950
00:52:11,199 --> 00:52:15,400
ultimately linked, directly linked and mostly linked to the fact

951
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,360
to being community from why isn't it in in this

952
00:52:19,679 --> 00:52:22,480
In this Creed at ten minutes it says, like we said,

953
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:24,440
it is the need for a nice in Creed, the

954
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,800
Creed talks about the church in terms of ontology. Does

955
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,920
they talk about the church ontologically? If the church is

956
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,159
built on on on Peter and you know not.

957
00:52:33,679 --> 00:52:37,679
Speaker 1: Your salvation hinges on this sanctum, says, your salvation hinges

958
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:41,079
on being in union with the pope not only when

959
00:52:41,119 --> 00:52:44,840
I'm signed, I mean, uh, Cantata Domino teaches that there's

960
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:48,119
no salvation or martyrdom, there are no martyrs outside of

961
00:52:48,119 --> 00:52:52,199
the Catholic Church, right, Danzinger. Let's get our get out

962
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,000
our friendly Danzinger. By the way, it's not Cantata Domino

963
00:52:55,159 --> 00:52:58,599
that first says this. Cantate Domino is referring to an

964
00:52:58,639 --> 00:53:03,599
older statement and singer Pope Pallagius the second two four seven,

965
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,000
which says that there's no martyrs outside of the Catholic Church. Right,

966
00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:10,360
we would agree with that there's no martyrs in other churches, right,

967
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:14,599
that's true, we're not acumenists. However, after Unum sanctem this

968
00:53:14,679 --> 00:53:17,599
becomes there's no martyrs outside of communion with the Bishop

969
00:53:17,639 --> 00:53:20,920
of Rome himself. That's why Cantate Domino expands that and

970
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,840
says no, So unum sanctum has happened, right, Cantate Domino

971
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,360
happens at Florence, and it says that you have to

972
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,159
not only be in union in the Orthodox Church, the

973
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:34,599
Orthodox Catholicy Church, now you also have to have the

974
00:53:34,639 --> 00:53:37,960
requirement of being in union with the successor to Peter

975
00:53:38,039 --> 00:53:41,320
to be saved. So this is a salvific issue, right,

976
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,639
Why is this absent in so many church fathers, so

977
00:53:44,639 --> 00:53:47,800
many doctors of the Church, so many statements of the Creed,

978
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:52,320
so many places in the councils, This fundamental salvific doctrine

979
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:57,480
is completely absent until magically, surprisingly or not surprisingly, after

980
00:53:57,519 --> 00:53:59,360
the schism. Now you have to be in union with

981
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:03,920
Rome to be said. Yeah, and by the way, they

982
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,519
don't even teach that anymore after Vatican too. You can literally,

983
00:54:07,599 --> 00:54:11,400
through some generic invincible ignorance desire be said than anything.

984
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, like really, you know, if you think that Vatican

985
00:54:16,599 --> 00:54:20,360
to change the Church, you should you should look at

986
00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,280
an early church and its history, because the Roman Catholic

987
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,400
Church was in constant mutation, you know, which apparently support

988
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,400
was supposed to to prevent from. But the Vatican one,

989
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:31,320
if you look at the historians, if you look at

990
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,960
Roman Catholic storians the time, you know, get A was

991
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,960
a Roman Catholic historian, Dullinger was a Roman Catholic historian.

992
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,480
So they've been teaching. There was top of the class

993
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:43,679
and they said, you know, this is creating a new religion.

994
00:54:44,199 --> 00:54:46,199
And even before that, like we said, like you know,

995
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:50,199
papalism is creating a new religion. It's been, it's been

996
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:52,920
in constant mutation. It didn't start with Vatican to Ecumunism

997
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,320
didn't start with Vatican two. You already have multiple rights,

998
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:59,800
multiple creeds, multiple disciplines, starting at Florence. So yeah, there was.

999
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 1: There's a specific, terrible quote that Flanders has. I'm trying

1000
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:05,760
to figure out what find in my notes where he

1001
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:10,440
said he said something like we're frozen in seven eighty

1002
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:15,559
seven and we don't even have the faith of the

1003
00:55:15,559 --> 00:55:18,440
ecumenical councils. He says something like this, like I'm trying

1004
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:22,480
to see where I wrote down his exact phraseology. He says,

1005
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:27,760
there's a a You just become your own. He says,

1006
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:28,440
you become your own.

1007
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:32,039
Speaker 2: He says, we don't have faith, and we don't have

1008
00:55:32,079 --> 00:55:33,559
the we.

1009
00:55:33,519 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: Don't have the faith of those seven councils. Now, let's

1010
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,679
go through each of the seven councils again. Thank you

1011
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:41,880
to Kai and Seraphim from the discord shout out so

1012
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,800
uh in Nicea, So if you want to write these down,

1013
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:46,920
you can go and look these up. I'm not gonna

1014
00:55:47,039 --> 00:55:48,960
screenshot every one of these, that we'd be here all night,

1015
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,039
but I'm gonna list them. So in Nicea Canon four,

1016
00:55:52,079 --> 00:55:55,199
as we showed, we showed Canon six and const Antinople one.

1017
00:55:56,079 --> 00:56:02,039
Canon two discusses the fact that bishop stay within their jurisdictions. Uh,

1018
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:05,239
this leads to confusion if they go outside of their jurisdictions.

1019
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:07,800
There's no mention of the exemption of Rome here, so

1020
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,199
they make an argument of silence. Oh well, it's just understood.

1021
00:56:10,199 --> 00:56:14,400
But remember constant Nople was convened in schism right and

1022
00:56:14,519 --> 00:56:17,320
later is accepted by Rome, so no mention of that.

1023
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,360
But yet the Holy Spirit is guiding this council. It's ridiculous.

1024
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:24,280
Canon three, the Bishop of Constantinople should have prerogatives as

1025
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:26,840
senec mentioned, so we begin to have the prerogatives of

1026
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,880
honor given to constat noble like Rome. In Canon six

1027
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:35,239
of Ephesus, we have the Holy Synod, which is accepted

1028
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:37,679
by the Church's ecumenical has authority over all the faith

1029
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,000
all the faithful. No mention of the Roman bishop having

1030
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,519
the real authority or the true authority or the principal

1031
00:56:43,639 --> 00:56:47,039
foundational authority over all the faithful. The canon specifically says

1032
00:56:47,039 --> 00:56:50,679
the Ecumenical Council is what has authority over all the faithful.

1033
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:58,599
Canon seven is the statement on altering the creed. Canon

1034
00:56:58,639 --> 00:57:07,679
eight is contrary to the canons of the Apo, the

1035
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:13,159
apostolic constitutions of the Holy Apostles, the transgressions of the

1036
00:57:13,199 --> 00:57:15,559
ancient customs, and the canons of the Blessed Fathers are

1037
00:57:15,599 --> 00:57:18,320
to be kept, and there's no mention of any special

1038
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:21,360
authority of Rome in this canon. The canon reaffirms the

1039
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,880
importance of the succession of the bishops and their own jurisdiction,

1040
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:28,480
and explicitly condemns taken over other jurisdiction. There's no special

1041
00:57:28,519 --> 00:57:32,239
authority or exemption mentioned for Rome in Canon eight, which

1042
00:57:32,239 --> 00:57:34,400
it would have been the ideal place to mention it. Right.

1043
00:57:35,199 --> 00:57:39,760
Canon one of Chalcedon states that the ancient canons remain

1044
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:42,079
in force. Now, remember every time that these canons state

1045
00:57:42,119 --> 00:57:45,920
that an ancient canon remains in force, it's presupposing that

1046
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:52,360
modus operandi. Right, it's not saying that it's not allowing

1047
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,199
a new mode of doing these things. Well, now we

1048
00:57:55,239 --> 00:57:57,679
did that with the canons. Now the pope can come

1049
00:57:57,719 --> 00:58:00,599
in and sort of arbitrarily decide what he wants and

1050
00:58:00,639 --> 00:58:05,719
what he doesn't want. Otherwise, Again, the whole praxis modus

1051
00:58:05,719 --> 00:58:14,440
operandi of canons itself is snodl. It's collegial. These don't

1052
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,320
make any sense in the Vatican One mindset, and that's

1053
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,599
why the Roman Catholic Church has a completely different practis

1054
00:58:21,119 --> 00:58:24,519
after the first millennium. So what we're trying to demonstrate

1055
00:58:24,559 --> 00:58:26,719
here is that his claim that we don't have the

1056
00:58:26,719 --> 00:58:29,760
faith of the Seven Councils is ludicrous. And he hasn't

1057
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,760
even read these canons, or if he has, he's being

1058
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:34,800
dishonest because he should have dealt with them. He should

1059
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:36,880
have said, well, let's deal with some of their objections

1060
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:41,280
from these ancient canons. So the ancient canons are in force.

1061
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,719
There's no mention in those ancient canons of Rome having

1062
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:47,000
the universal supremacy. It would have obviously been attached at

1063
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:50,199
every point. I mean, look, none of the people at

1064
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,679
this time operate like the Roman Catholic apologists. Now where

1065
00:58:53,719 --> 00:58:57,400
are all the Roman catholicapologists at this time in these councils.

1066
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:59,519
They should have just been citing the popes all the time,

1067
00:59:00,199 --> 00:59:02,800
but they don't do that. Where is that mindset? It's

1068
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,159
not here, right, and they do the flip flop. Well,

1069
00:59:05,239 --> 00:59:07,400
it wasn't there because it was nascent and seed form.

1070
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:09,039
But now wait a minute, you just tried to argue

1071
00:59:09,079 --> 00:59:12,800
from all these post Apostolic fathers, Victor Clement, that it

1072
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:17,360
was always there. Total contradictions. So Canon one of Chalcedon

1073
00:59:17,559 --> 00:59:20,440
is the ancient canons are in forced. Canon five says

1074
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:25,440
that all the boundaries of the ancient canons remain enforced.

1075
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:32,480
No exemptions for Rome mentioned Canon nine. Appeal your problems

1076
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:36,440
in your local jurisdictions up the hierarchy until they reach

1077
00:59:36,639 --> 00:59:40,559
the throne of Constantinople. You hear that this is Calceadon.

1078
00:59:40,639 --> 00:59:43,760
You can appeal up the structure until it reaches Constantinople,

1079
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:48,280
where is the mention of the final infalliable throne of Rome.

1080
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:51,679
Now quite when the Roman Catholic apologies are presented with this,

1081
00:59:51,719 --> 00:59:54,360
you know what they actually say. They say, well, it

1082
00:59:54,400 --> 00:59:57,920
was just understood. In every one of these examples, they

1083
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:01,239
always say, appeal to sign. It was just it was

1084
01:00:01,239 --> 01:00:03,320
it was, it was just. It's all. It's all there,

1085
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:07,320
it's just no no actual it is appeal of silence. Well,

1086
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:08,000
they all knew that.

1087
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 2: Even if you go look in Roman Catholic sources. For example,

1088
01:00:12,679 --> 01:00:16,480
before Vatican Ones, they had they had the Roman Catholic

1089
01:00:16,559 --> 01:00:19,679
historian compiled all the history of the councils. This guy

1090
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:24,280
was named fl A, and f l A compiles history

1091
01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:27,239
of the council and he says, and it's okay, it

1092
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:28,960
was blackmail to an extent. Of course, he got a

1093
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:30,880
Roman Catholic bias. But if you look at it, it still

1094
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:33,920
doesn't match the Roman Catholic understanding. When it comes to

1095
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,199
Constantinople one he says that yes, yes, they we're not

1096
01:00:36,239 --> 01:00:39,280
in the community the purposes that The only other example

1097
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:44,480
they have is a previous Roman Catholic historian who actually

1098
01:00:44,639 --> 01:00:49,199
quoted a false false acts of Consols. He says that

1099
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:52,760
Baronius here Colin Baronius, which is a beatified in the

1100
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:56,119
Roman chair here is quoting false stuff, and Barers notes

1101
01:00:56,400 --> 01:01:00,599
forger it's even it's Barnes also that push to remove

1102
01:01:01,159 --> 01:01:03,960
Syrilla Alexandria from the from the list of the saints,

1103
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:07,440
because he's so he's a problem with papalism in in

1104
01:01:07,519 --> 01:01:11,760
ephesis because if it's still Alexandria. So yeah, you can

1105
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,480
even go look at your own sources that will show

1106
01:01:15,559 --> 01:01:18,679
this at some point, if it even even you know,

1107
01:01:19,559 --> 01:01:23,480
goes on it was blackmail. But he still says that

1108
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:27,559
that Honorious was a hertic. Still like, go read your

1109
01:01:27,559 --> 01:01:29,960
own sources. It just it banks the church.

1110
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. Canon ten uh, traditional jurisdictional boundaries and force

1111
01:01:38,159 --> 01:01:40,800
no exemptions for Rome. Canon twelve. We're we're still doing

1112
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:44,280
calcilon Canon twelve. No bishop is allowed to set up

1113
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:47,079
two multi metropolitans in one province. Any bishop who does

1114
01:01:47,119 --> 01:01:49,840
loses his rank. There's no exemptions for the Roman bishop here.

1115
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:52,039
Again limited jurisdictions. And by the way, don't they have

1116
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:54,719
three patriarchs of Aniochy said.

1117
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's actually bring at forty five minutes. Oh, you

1118
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:04,719
you have overlapping jurisdiction. No, it's not really overlapping jurisdiction

1119
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:07,159
because because it was a Roman jurisdiction, that is no

1120
01:02:07,199 --> 01:02:12,400
avoid and these are diasporus. However, yes, you have currently

1121
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:16,039
you have three Roman Catholic bishop all in community in

1122
01:02:16,079 --> 01:02:19,480
the same city, prefacing different three different phase different saints.

1123
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:24,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. Canon nineteen says each bishop or metropolitan is in

1124
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:26,840
charge of their own jurisdiction and the matters of their

1125
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:28,599
own area. This would have been a great place to

1126
01:02:28,719 --> 01:02:32,159
mention the obvious exemption of the Bishop of Rome. It's

1127
01:02:32,159 --> 01:02:35,119
never mentioned Canon twenty five, and again Canon twenty eight

1128
01:02:35,159 --> 01:02:40,239
of Nicia is contrary to the Roman Catholic scheme. Right,

1129
01:02:40,599 --> 01:02:44,760
it says Constantinople is equal to Rome and all the privileges,

1130
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:48,159
and it's number two because Rome is more is ancient,

1131
01:02:48,199 --> 01:02:51,400
and it's doubly Apostolic from Peter and Paul and by

1132
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:55,960
tradition and custom. Right. So, in other words, Canon twenty

1133
01:02:56,320 --> 01:03:00,840
stistic Canon twenty eight shows that they were not assuming

1134
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:05,639
papal supremacy by silence. That's the key here. So all

1135
01:03:05,679 --> 01:03:08,360
of these other canons are shown to be interpreted in

1136
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:10,679
the sense that we mean it, because they included Canon

1137
01:03:10,679 --> 01:03:13,000
twenty eight in here, which is against the papal view.

1138
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:15,920
So you can't argue that all these canons presupposed the

1139
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,039
papal view when Canon twenty eight shows that did not.

1140
01:03:20,159 --> 01:03:23,440
So Canon nineteen go ahead.

1141
01:03:23,519 --> 01:03:27,119
Speaker 2: Twenty eight is great because it also shows that the

1142
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:30,199
room and honest by being doubly apostolic. You know, like

1143
01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:32,360
a lot of times, a lot of people for kids

1144
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:35,039
that Paul actually came first. I going on to scripture,

1145
01:03:35,199 --> 01:03:37,760
Paul came first, room, and this seat was doubly apostolic.

1146
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:39,760
And even if you look at early history and I

1147
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:44,960
think that you've got Ignatius of Antioch, you've got a

1148
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:50,800
famous church historian ucpiusis area. We even stated that this

1149
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:55,440
is the second pope, the second perp forgot his.

1150
01:03:55,480 --> 01:04:02,960
Speaker 1: Name as Cletus Climent and go like that, yeah.

1151
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:10,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Linus was actually named by Paul. So you

1152
01:04:10,159 --> 01:04:12,000
have a pope which is you know, supposed to be

1153
01:04:12,079 --> 01:04:16,840
the office of petron Line, which is in Pauline succession

1154
01:04:17,159 --> 01:04:22,320
and apparently still held the charism of Peter, which is ridiculous.

1155
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:25,079
So and of course you know this canoners is that

1156
01:04:25,599 --> 01:04:29,119
Rome is first, but is there equal Yeah, that means

1157
01:04:29,159 --> 01:04:31,920
that means here clearly it's premacis.

1158
01:04:32,079 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: And what that shows the canon, the fact that Canon

1159
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:40,320
twenty eight is contrary to papalism and the papacy rejects

1160
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:43,320
it shows that the rest of these canons cannot be

1161
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:47,079
presupposed to be Roman supremacy. That's the point. Canon twenty

1162
01:04:47,079 --> 01:04:50,159
five says the election of bishops is by the metropolitan,

1163
01:04:51,159 --> 01:04:55,280
not the best of Rome. Again the post first millennium,

1164
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:59,519
the second millennium of Rome Catholicism. The pope approves all bishops.

1165
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and even bring that up saving shoots the stuff

1166
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,679
in the food because they they talk about the investitive crisis,

1167
01:05:06,719 --> 01:05:10,880
which was about the pope not electing bishops. And yes,

1168
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:14,599
because there's some things that happened and then and these

1169
01:05:14,639 --> 01:05:18,039
crisis happened just right after after excuse him.

1170
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:22,920
Speaker 1: Right, yeah exactly, because uh so, let's move to Trollo

1171
01:05:23,039 --> 01:05:27,159
breaking up to to destroy their own arguments throughout the stream.

1172
01:05:27,199 --> 01:05:29,760
It's just their whole stream was nothing but like things

1173
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:33,440
that undermine themselves, the pot calling the kettle black. Now

1174
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,920
Trollo is is, of course the synod that we accept

1175
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:40,800
as ecumenical, because it's eventually accepted at uh Nicea too.

1176
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:43,079
All right, So now the Roman Catholics have had a

1177
01:05:43,199 --> 01:05:46,480
change in their position right after Nicia to the Western

1178
01:05:46,559 --> 01:05:48,800
Church accepted it, and then soon after I don't remember

1179
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:50,360
at the top I had which pope it was, but

1180
01:05:50,519 --> 01:05:53,400
one of the popes after uh Nicea too, I read

1181
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:57,239
out Jesuits, and not a crazy Jesuit, but a scholarly

1182
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:00,599
book on this long time ago about how there was

1183
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,159
initially the acceptance of the Canons of Trollo and then

1184
01:06:04,719 --> 01:06:08,760
later particularly in relationship to married clergy. The pope obviously

1185
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:12,039
later rescinded that because Trollo includes the famous Canon on

1186
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:15,800
married priests. But for a time the pope had accepted

1187
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:20,599
the Trello canons, which because they're they're part of Nicia too, right,

1188
01:06:20,679 --> 01:06:22,639
So when we look at Trollo, and by the way,

1189
01:06:22,679 --> 01:06:25,800
for us, for orthodox Trello is normative, right, it's it's ecumenical.

1190
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:31,239
The first Canon, of course talks about the heretics that

1191
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:35,159
are condemned, and Honoreus is included in the heresiology as

1192
01:06:35,159 --> 01:06:37,920
a condemned heretic. Uh and they were condemned by the

1193
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:41,599
unanimous acknowledgment of the faithful that was revealed to the church.

1194
01:06:41,719 --> 01:06:46,320
They were synotically anathematized, universally considered to be anathematized, and

1195
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:48,599
that includes the Bishop of Rome here, So there's no

1196
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:52,639
They had no problem with the council condemning the pope,

1197
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:56,840
and for a time the Pope accepted the canons of Trollo.

1198
01:06:58,119 --> 01:07:01,519
Canon two of Trollo says that it reaffirms the previous

1199
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:05,920
canons and understandings of the canons, and that they remain

1200
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:09,079
in force. There's no mention of any new foundation or

1201
01:07:09,199 --> 01:07:13,480
Rome superseding or being the over riding foundation. And again

1202
01:07:13,639 --> 01:07:18,079
Trollo shows that they understood the canons in our perspective,

1203
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:25,000
because the Pope later rejects aspects of these canons in Trollo,

1204
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:29,000
anything to.

1205
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:33,440
Speaker 2: Say on that tonight, no no tutuis is really great. Also,

1206
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:39,320
Trula is interesting because it shows that, you know, what

1207
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:43,760
has become a mandatory celibacy in Rome evolved and originally

1208
01:07:44,599 --> 01:07:47,519
so was condemned by Consul. You know, mandatory celibacy was

1209
01:07:47,559 --> 01:07:48,800
condemned by consulright.

1210
01:07:48,519 --> 01:07:52,760
Speaker 1: So Canon A explicitly permits men to be married before

1211
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:55,599
becoming ordained. This was the norm throughout the church. Now

1212
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:59,039
it's a discipline that became normative in the Latin Church,

1213
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:01,800
but it was normative throughout the entire church back to

1214
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:04,719
the time of the Apostles. So it's just ludicrous to

1215
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:10,119
introduce an innovation to make it mandated when the entire

1216
01:08:10,239 --> 01:08:12,840
church at this time accepted it as normative. It's just

1217
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:14,480
it's it's a proof of innovation.

1218
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:19,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we'll talk about this. It also mentions, you

1219
01:08:19,239 --> 01:08:21,279
know that as you start to and get in practices

1220
01:08:21,319 --> 01:08:23,720
that you know, resemble divorce. But we're going to make

1221
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,079
a whole part I believe in divorce and things. We're

1222
01:08:26,079 --> 01:08:27,159
gonna Yeah.

1223
01:08:27,119 --> 01:08:29,520
Speaker 1: By the I'm gonna let me. I should cite the

1224
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:31,560
UBI article. I know you guys are going to do

1225
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:36,359
a a longer treatise on this, but uh, they did

1226
01:08:36,399 --> 01:08:39,960
bring up the divorce.

1227
01:08:40,159 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 2: I think we should develop it later those things they.

1228
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:44,880
Speaker 1: Bring it up. So, but just for the sake of

1229
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:46,720
people in the chat, because this always comes up. Here

1230
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:50,600
is a patristic Florida Jellium from Ubi Petris citing church

1231
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:52,279
fathers on this matter. And by the way, the canon,

1232
01:08:52,399 --> 01:08:55,479
this is another point that I've noticed, Uh, the canons

1233
01:08:55,479 --> 01:08:59,920
of Saint Basil, which allow for divorce and remarriage, where

1234
01:09:00,079 --> 01:09:03,359
part of the Eastern Roman Catholic Church. So by their

1235
01:09:03,399 --> 01:09:07,239
own admission, since the East admitted this and allowed this,

1236
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:10,960
the Pope admitted and allowed this because there was one

1237
01:09:11,039 --> 01:09:13,760
church allowing this for the first millennium. You see what

1238
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:14,039
I'm say.

1239
01:09:14,079 --> 01:09:16,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, if it was wrong, when the pope correctness, I

1240
01:09:16,319 --> 01:09:19,840
thought it was to collect things exist.

1241
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:25,000
Speaker 1: Okay, So Canon twenty one, I'll just real quickly go

1242
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,479
through the rest of these canons, Canon twenty one of Trollo,

1243
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:30,439
Canon twenty five, Canon thirty two, Canon thirty six, Canon

1244
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:36,560
fifty five, Canon eighty two, Canon ninety all post problems

1245
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:40,520
for the Vatican one understanding being the case and true

1246
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:43,359
in the first millennium. When we come to Nicia two,

1247
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:46,680
I'm gonna list the canons Canon one, Canon three, Canon ten,

1248
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:52,479
Canon eleven those are problematic. And then there are multiple

1249
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:56,359
Apostolic canons which we still hold as normative, which these

1250
01:09:56,439 --> 01:10:01,760
councils approve and prepare situate the Apostolic cannons. That's the

1251
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:06,560
thing is that the Apostolic canons are perpetuated and approved

1252
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:11,479
and Canon one five, fifteen, thirty three, thirty four, thirty five,

1253
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:14,680
thirty nine, forty five, sixty four, seventy four, eighty one

1254
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:18,760
all are contrary to papal supremacy now in their church,

1255
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:22,399
in their mind, they don't care. You can throw all

1256
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:25,119
of that in the trash. It doesn't matter because after

1257
01:10:25,239 --> 01:10:28,800
nineteen eight, well after the first millennium, the pope is

1258
01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:32,039
basically the arbiter of canon law too. Right, everything switches

1259
01:10:32,079 --> 01:10:35,359
to Rome now again. Notice how canon law in the

1260
01:10:35,399 --> 01:10:40,359
first millennium is sonodle. After the schism, it's all papal

1261
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:45,119
who changed the canon. So in nineteen seventeen they had

1262
01:10:45,159 --> 01:10:47,560
the trad canon law, which by the way, the trads

1263
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,520
all follow the nineteen seventeen code. And then in nineteen

1264
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:53,880
eighty three John Paul updates the canon law to have

1265
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:56,600
a updated canon law, which by the way allows things

1266
01:10:56,680 --> 01:11:00,680
like communing with heretics and schismatics in extra stream cases

1267
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:03,439
or perhaps not in extreme cases. Even so, a lot

1268
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:05,159
of the trads. If you're in Sata world, if you're

1269
01:11:05,159 --> 01:11:06,439
on a set of a contest, you know this. You

1270
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:08,960
know that you will appeal to the nineteen seventeen code

1271
01:11:09,039 --> 01:11:13,199
because there's a change in community getting sacraments from heretics

1272
01:11:13,239 --> 01:11:17,920
and schismatics, which Flanders has to correct Marshall on. Marshall's like,

1273
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:20,039
I wouldn't do it, and then he's like, well, actually

1274
01:11:20,079 --> 01:11:22,359
you can according to canon law. So even between them

1275
01:11:22,399 --> 01:11:25,359
they don't even know what the romancalolicy position is. By

1276
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:27,439
the way, it wasn't the pope supposed to solve these

1277
01:11:27,479 --> 01:11:30,720
problems of where do I get communion? Where do I not? Oh,

1278
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,359
there's all these problems, Oh communion. We don't know who's

1279
01:11:33,359 --> 01:11:35,159
in communie with you. You don't even know if you

1280
01:11:35,159 --> 01:11:38,279
could go receive communion from a heretic or not. Marshall

1281
01:11:38,279 --> 01:11:41,960
thinks you can't, Dode thinks you can. Who knows whether

1282
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:43,960
you can or can't. And in the Roman Gallic world

1283
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:47,319
because the nineteen seventeen code right there, it was very

1284
01:11:47,359 --> 01:11:50,079
limited in the extreme cases. After a Kumenism in the

1285
01:11:50,159 --> 01:11:53,079
nineteen eighty three code. Oh, let's just do whatever you want, bro,

1286
01:11:55,199 --> 01:11:57,000
pretty much right, pretty much?

1287
01:11:57,079 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want to stress against it. Of course,

1288
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:02,279
all the things we're saying, you know, bring the you know,

1289
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:06,319
Orthodox position. There's another layer of problem for rom because,

1290
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:09,159
of course, as the Union's acceptedles the unions accept the

1291
01:12:09,199 --> 01:12:14,439
Apostolic is the Apostolic grade point the constitution. You know,

1292
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,039
if Rome in order to say that the Apostolic Constitution

1293
01:12:17,079 --> 01:12:20,720
and not valid, they will use atheistic argument, you know

1294
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:23,840
from atheist scholars say oh, you know, it's actually quite

1295
01:12:23,880 --> 01:12:27,119
too late texts. The latest paper found is this is

1296
01:12:27,199 --> 01:12:30,319
quite no, it's just tradition. You know, if I, if

1297
01:12:30,359 --> 01:12:32,720
I start using sort of arguments, you can't even use

1298
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:35,079
your Bible. But you're saying that you have the Bible

1299
01:12:35,119 --> 01:12:39,760
because of tradition. So here another layer of dishonesty, another

1300
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:43,079
layer of contradiction in Rome.

1301
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:45,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he says, we have a fan, right, so

1302
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:48,399
I'm going to move on. We have a fantasy of union. Uh,

1303
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:52,399
there's no real unity in in Orthodoxy because of the

1304
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:56,880
metropolitan one metropolitan being out of union with another. Well,

1305
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:58,840
then that would apply to your own church in the

1306
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:01,960
first millennium because of the any instances where one metropolitan

1307
01:13:02,039 --> 01:13:03,800
or bishop was out of union with another and it's

1308
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:08,359
later resolved by councils. So by your own standard, the

1309
01:13:08,439 --> 01:13:11,399
Roman Catholic Church for the first millennium had a false

1310
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:13,760
fantasy of union. But in fact the order our church

1311
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:16,399
is united. We have one creed, we have one faith.

1312
01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:18,880
We have the same canons that we follow, and we

1313
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:22,079
have a canonical jurisdiction throughout the world, and we have

1314
01:13:22,279 --> 01:13:25,119
a single Eucharist that we participate. And we still fence

1315
01:13:25,199 --> 01:13:27,560
the table from the Roman Catholic Church. No longer fences

1316
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:29,399
the table. You can go to the bat I have

1317
01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:32,600
the countless friends who are atheists and they go to

1318
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:35,359
the Vatican. They walcome and get communion. Now, there may

1319
01:13:35,399 --> 01:13:38,680
be abuses of canons in the Orthodox Church, but typically speaking,

1320
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:40,239
you don't do that. Like you can just walk up there.

1321
01:13:40,279 --> 01:13:42,039
Oh bro, I'm off the street. Bro give me that

1322
01:13:42,079 --> 01:13:44,800
wayfer dog ha ha. Look check it out, bro, got

1323
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:46,840
a wafer. I have friends that did that. They're like, well,

1324
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:52,439
I brought back my wafer from from the from the Vatican. Bra. Yeah.

1325
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:54,920
Speaker 2: Things that even have like eucharista servant. I don't know

1326
01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:57,800
as they call it. It's a eucharistic minister. And they

1327
01:13:57,840 --> 01:13:58,399
can be women.

1328
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:01,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have women and they have it's only alter

1329
01:14:01,079 --> 01:14:05,239
all kinds of crazy stuff. Yeah. So let's see. So

1330
01:14:05,439 --> 01:14:08,720
the accusation that there's a fantasy of union, uh totally

1331
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:11,800
is undermined in the fact that they can't decide a

1332
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:14,000
Vatican two is true or.

1333
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:18,720
Speaker 2: Not the seven Consuls, So they say, oh, you can't

1334
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:21,319
even do them in your own consuls, can you?

1335
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:22,520
Speaker 1: Right? I think.

1336
01:14:24,319 --> 01:14:27,159
Speaker 2: Is the exact example of what's.

1337
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 1: The what's the Amazon? So on? What's Vatican too? What

1338
01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:30,800
are those right?

1339
01:14:31,279 --> 01:14:35,520
Speaker 2: Uh? Will they will say that, you know, he's the

1340
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:37,840
final document in English, is not publisher. It's fine, and

1341
01:14:39,399 --> 01:14:43,039
I've heard it's the Vatican too. Vatican do itself said

1342
01:14:43,159 --> 01:14:45,840
stated it is an ecmmunical consul. If you look at

1343
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:49,880
lum Gentium, it's it's like it's his title, Ecumunical Council

1344
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:53,000
with solent Magisterian dogmatic constitution.

1345
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,039
Speaker 1: And then then they misused the Paul the six quote.

1346
01:14:56,039 --> 01:14:58,119
Paul the Six did not say the council was not

1347
01:14:58,279 --> 01:15:02,520
teaching authoritatively. He says that defined no new dogmas. Yeah,

1348
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:04,720
so what that doesn't mean it's not dogmatic. That's a

1349
01:15:05,159 --> 01:15:07,560
total trad myth. I was in trid world. I know

1350
01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:09,520
all the trade myths. I tried to use that one

1351
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:11,399
for a while when I went to the SSPX maths.

1352
01:15:11,399 --> 01:15:13,279
Oh bro, we don't have to believe Vatican. Oh really,

1353
01:15:13,279 --> 01:15:15,000
you don't have to believe Vatican two. Have you ever

1354
01:15:15,039 --> 01:15:18,159
been to a Vatican two church. When the SSPX people

1355
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:21,000
when they reconcile to the Vatican, do you know what

1356
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:25,359
they have to accept Vatican two? You can't reconcile, would

1357
01:15:25,399 --> 01:15:29,279
not accept Vatican two. All the FSSP were made to

1358
01:15:29,359 --> 01:15:32,199
accept Vatican two when they were reconciled out of the SSPX.

1359
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:35,199
Any SSPX person that goes back to Vatican, to the

1360
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:40,039
normative diocesan union, you have to accept Vatican two. Any

1361
01:15:40,119 --> 01:15:43,159
catechumen in the world who's brought into the Roman Catholic

1362
01:15:43,239 --> 01:15:48,119
ARCI program is taught Vatican two. The Pope himself has

1363
01:15:48,159 --> 01:15:53,039
reiterated that Vatican two's reforms are magisterial and irreversible. Francis

1364
01:15:53,039 --> 01:15:54,399
has said this multiple times.

1365
01:15:54,640 --> 01:15:58,319
Speaker 2: I've quoted that, Yeah. Some things that's great is that

1366
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:01,439
it would say that Vatican two doesn't add any new dogma,

1367
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:08,279
but Zenza will proceed to reject Vatican too, because Marshall,

1368
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:11,520
by having this position, actually shows that there is something

1369
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:13,880
to be rejected, which means that there is something that,

1370
01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:16,920
according to him, was added, was something new.

1371
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:20,720
Speaker 1: What do you mean it doesn't so, yes, it's hundreds

1372
01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:22,680
of pages of dogmas. What are you talking about? Like,

1373
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:25,119
it's not it's not dogma, it's not dogmatic, what actually

1374
01:16:25,159 --> 01:16:27,960
it is? So this is double talk, this is sophistry.

1375
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:30,039
And this is what happens when you get into the

1376
01:16:30,039 --> 01:16:31,920
world of rome caanthosis. This is what Tim is going

1377
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:33,479
to learn the hard way if he's if he's a

1378
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:37,680
legitimate convert. Uh, he's going to learn this spiraling world

1379
01:16:37,800 --> 01:16:42,279
of mental gymnastics and craziness to where on the one hand,

1380
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:45,760
the documents of Atticant two are called the dogmatic Constitution

1381
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:48,840
on the Church. There By the way, let's let's put

1382
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:51,319
something the rest really quick here. What is required in

1383
01:16:51,359 --> 01:16:54,199
the Roman Catholic system for something to be dogmatic. A

1384
01:16:54,199 --> 01:16:56,720
lot of them are confused and they think that it's uh, well,

1385
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:59,399
the pope has to explicitly state that it's an infallible

1386
01:16:59,399 --> 01:17:02,319
extra ory. No, no, no, it's not the only thing that's.

1387
01:17:02,159 --> 01:17:05,279
Speaker 2: Required done like, it's never been done like this. If

1388
01:17:05,279 --> 01:17:08,720
you look at pastor Atonis, it says actually the requirement say,

1389
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:12,119
oh yeah, it's very high requirements. No like and everything

1390
01:17:12,199 --> 01:17:15,840
says it's not except per it's the requirements are not

1391
01:17:16,079 --> 01:17:19,760
so hard to reach. It needs to be a revelation

1392
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:21,680
of a new doctrine of faith and morals, which is

1393
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:25,199
already a huge spectrum. You know, lumin gentium covers covers

1394
01:17:25,239 --> 01:17:29,920
that definitely covers the faith. There's another dogmatic incisions that

1395
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:34,279
covers a moral side. That's well, let's face.

1396
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:36,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's actually a condemn it's actually a condemn proposition,

1397
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:38,920
for example, that you only have to hold to the

1398
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:42,880
universal extraordinary magisterium. That's a condemn process.

1399
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:46,000
Speaker 2: That's because several points. So it needs to be said

1400
01:17:46,039 --> 01:17:49,880
by by a pope, which is not really hot magestial authority,

1401
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:54,279
you know, as.

1402
01:17:52,439 --> 01:17:56,359
Speaker 1: It's enough, it's a is it faith and morals? Is

1403
01:17:56,359 --> 01:17:58,239
it related to faith and morals? Is it from the

1404
01:17:58,279 --> 01:18:00,399
Sea of Peter? And is it for the whole church?

1405
01:18:01,000 --> 01:18:04,119
That's all that's required it And it doesn't matter whether

1406
01:18:04,359 --> 01:18:08,800
you it can fall under either extraordinary or ordinary. If

1407
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:11,960
those three criteria are met, it can't be erroneous. So

1408
01:18:12,039 --> 01:18:14,640
to call Vatican two, when it easily fits all three

1409
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:18,199
of those criterion not dogmatic is ridiculous. You have to

1410
01:18:18,199 --> 01:18:20,239
follow Vatican two, and everybody knows you have to follow

1411
01:18:20,239 --> 01:18:22,439
Aatican two. So they're just lying to themselves and saying, well,

1412
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:25,159
I don't have I personally I'm going to reject the acumenical.

1413
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:29,479
The pope has enforced this multiple popes for sixty plus years.

1414
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:33,159
You can't reject sixty plus years of papal ordinary magisterial teaching.

1415
01:18:34,159 --> 01:18:36,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. And something else that's great is that even okay,

1416
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:38,199
let's admit for the sake of arguments that it's not

1417
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:43,319
it's not an ecomical council. You know, it will still

1418
01:18:43,359 --> 01:18:47,520
fall under ordinary magisterium, and ordinary magisterium has to be followed.

1419
01:18:47,920 --> 01:18:55,920
And I'm quoting here if a religious submission religious and yeah, docility,

1420
01:18:56,159 --> 01:18:59,520
And in pastor tourneys they say that if you if

1421
01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:01,199
you go away from it, you go away from the

1422
01:19:01,239 --> 01:19:05,159
truth of the Catholic Church. Uh, and you can lose

1423
01:19:05,199 --> 01:19:07,680
faith and salvation because of it. Like you cannot go

1424
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:14,239
away from this. Beout, you know, starting to loud, Everybody

1425
01:19:14,279 --> 01:19:16,960
who doesn't like poor Francis to just read past Atonis.

1426
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:21,399
It's it's five pages long, grobably less every Saint Roman

1427
01:19:21,399 --> 01:19:23,439
Catholics that have read this and know that it is

1428
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:27,039
a comenical and knows that it is infallible. H Like

1429
01:19:27,159 --> 01:19:30,760
I've seen many people apostatize because yes, this is actually

1430
01:19:30,840 --> 01:19:33,399
this is not traditional at all. This is this is

1431
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:38,680
a very very modernist take, a very you know, not

1432
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:43,600
in perils, but the absolutist take. If if you don't

1433
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:47,119
like poor friends, just read pasta Autonois because this is

1434
01:19:47,159 --> 01:19:50,520
this is the rules you have to follow. Actually, you know,

1435
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:57,920
finally enough about this actually pushed secularism in the West

1436
01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:00,319
quite a bit, because of course, if you belong to

1437
01:20:00,319 --> 01:20:02,800
a nozenation, you have this man, you know, the poping

1438
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:06,960
rooms as the leader of a nozenation. Let's say that, no,

1439
01:20:07,279 --> 01:20:10,359
you have to follow, you have to follow faith models,

1440
01:20:10,359 --> 01:20:12,479
you have to follow decree, you have to follow all

1441
01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:15,439
the ordinary magisterium. It means that the pope can state

1442
01:20:15,479 --> 01:20:18,199
a revolution whatever it wants in your country. And today

1443
01:20:18,359 --> 01:20:20,279
you know, to an extent he's doing this is pushing

1444
01:20:20,319 --> 01:20:23,920
for more migrants. It's a question.

1445
01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:27,199
Speaker 1: Let me put this in the chat. Here is the

1446
01:20:27,239 --> 01:20:31,239
full text of Vatican One, which hardly any of the

1447
01:20:31,279 --> 01:20:33,720
treads have even read. For the most part, very few

1448
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:36,039
of them have actually read. It's only ten pages. You

1449
01:20:36,039 --> 01:20:37,800
ought to go read it, right, it's your most If

1450
01:20:38,039 --> 01:20:40,119
the papacy is the most important doctrine, we can only

1451
01:20:40,119 --> 01:20:41,520
be saved by the papacy. You would think that the

1452
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:45,159
Romancaolics would all know by heart Vatican One. Of course

1453
01:20:45,199 --> 01:20:46,880
they haven't. But when you go read it, so there's

1454
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:49,039
the decree. And by the way, don't just read I'm

1455
01:20:49,039 --> 01:20:51,840
not trying to rebuke you snack, but don't just read

1456
01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:54,359
Past Returners because Past Returners there is only two sections

1457
01:20:54,359 --> 01:20:57,079
of Vatican One. If you read all the sections there,

1458
01:20:57,119 --> 01:20:59,119
and it's not that long, it's about ten pages, you

1459
01:20:59,119 --> 01:21:01,680
will say that everything that we're saying is absolutely correct.

1460
01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:04,560
You have to follow the Universal Ordinary Magisterial and you

1461
01:21:04,640 --> 01:21:08,880
have to accept all of his juridical decisions and decrees.

1462
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:12,840
This is condemned. The idea trads, the idea that you

1463
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:15,680
can reject the Holy Office, the Congregation of the Doctrine

1464
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:18,279
of the Faith, It's decisions, all any of the pontifical

1465
01:21:18,279 --> 01:21:21,199
congregations and their decisions, any of the judgments and decrees

1466
01:21:21,680 --> 01:21:24,600
that you can pick and choose, that is condemned. In

1467
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:29,239
Denzinger sixteen eighty three, seventeen ninety two, sixteen ninety eight,

1468
01:21:30,239 --> 01:21:33,239
all condemned that proposition, because that was the proposition that

1469
01:21:33,279 --> 01:21:36,359
all the modernists we're using to get around the papal

1470
01:21:36,399 --> 01:21:39,840
statements at that time. You see, Ah, but here you

1471
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:43,279
have it, the trap that now binds you to Frank.

1472
01:21:43,680 --> 01:21:44,720
You can't get around Frank.

1473
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:49,640
Speaker 2: Yep. Some things that's great is that they contradicts it

1474
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:52,159
so many times during the extreme And I'm going to

1475
01:21:52,199 --> 01:21:54,920
give an example of you know, founders who say that

1476
01:21:55,039 --> 01:21:59,960
is absolutely not prideful you know yet yet actually said

1477
01:22:00,119 --> 01:22:03,960
is that he is devoid of pride. He says, is

1478
01:22:05,199 --> 01:22:08,199
devoid of pride, and that other people have different opinions

1479
01:22:08,199 --> 01:22:10,760
than him because because they have pride. He says, it's

1480
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:13,920
like around twenty twenty thirty times we try to count

1481
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:16,760
something that's better that he says that, oh actually he's

1482
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:18,960
a cure for pride is submitting to the purp and

1483
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:22,479
not asking questions. And what does he do if you

1484
01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:25,840
look at his Twitter, he says that we should pray

1485
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:28,159
for the intercession of the Corey dump tracks, even though

1486
01:22:28,199 --> 01:22:31,359
the Pope made made an official statement saying that the

1487
01:22:31,399 --> 01:22:34,560
Corey dump tracks is is foolishness.

1488
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:36,039
Speaker 1: Wow, that's a great point.

1489
01:22:36,279 --> 01:22:40,319
Speaker 2: So so you know, like who's fight for her? Like

1490
01:22:41,159 --> 01:22:43,159
is it really an antidote to your pride? Because if

1491
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:45,560
you're not smilding the pope and they say, oh no,

1492
01:22:45,680 --> 01:22:47,800
actually we don't like you submit to the purpe. No,

1493
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:52,600
not like this, Yeah, I mean that's the other your

1494
01:22:52,720 --> 01:22:56,680
not just herem So you're making no sense good addicting yourself.

1495
01:22:57,239 --> 01:22:59,640
The fact that Marshall does this is it worse because

1496
01:22:59,720 --> 01:23:03,800
even World books, you know, suld just technically submit is

1497
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:06,319
a purb but not following is a magisterium, and as

1498
01:23:06,359 --> 01:23:07,119
following is a pope.

1499
01:23:08,439 --> 01:23:12,359
Speaker 1: All right, so I've got most of the major points hit.

1500
01:23:12,399 --> 01:23:14,640
I mean, let's get to their their sort of crux,

1501
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:16,159
and now I mean you're free to bring in any

1502
01:23:16,159 --> 01:23:19,319
more points you want to. But one of the things

1503
01:23:19,359 --> 01:23:21,680
about economia that they bring up, I just want to

1504
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:24,239
point out the absurdity of the of the room. So

1505
01:23:24,239 --> 01:23:26,319
they want to give all these emotional appeals. Allow allow

1506
01:23:26,399 --> 01:23:29,640
me to do a little bit of a funny mock

1507
01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:31,640
because most of their what I'm going to do right

1508
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:34,920
now is like the substance of their kind of approach.

1509
01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:38,319
So let's let's take a look at pre Vatican to

1510
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:40,840
Moral Theology, one of the most famous books if you

1511
01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:42,680
were in the ssp X, if you were a trad

1512
01:23:42,720 --> 01:23:45,560
you probably have Canon Ripley's book from tens called This

1513
01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:48,880
as the Faith. It's it's very popular. A lot of

1514
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:51,119
trads have read this book and refer to it. If

1515
01:23:51,119 --> 01:23:55,239
you look at the section on page one about what

1516
01:23:55,600 --> 01:23:58,640
constitutes a mortal sin on the Lord's Day, you have

1517
01:23:58,840 --> 01:24:05,359
lists of activity, okay, lists of activities that are servile work,

1518
01:24:06,119 --> 01:24:16,560
and you have things like servile work would be plowing, sowing, harvesting, laundry, laundry, lawnmowing, cobbling, tailoring, printing, masonry, mines,

1519
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:19,479
and factory work. However, in some places there is the

1520
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:22,960
custom of justifying knitting and crocheting, but it's also permitted

1521
01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:26,720
to go walking, riding, driving, rowing, and journeying, even though

1522
01:24:27,039 --> 01:24:30,319
even though these works can be fatiguing. Fatiguing, literary and

1523
01:24:30,399 --> 01:24:33,520
artistic works are lawful even if they're done for money. However,

1524
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:36,439
servile work is forbidden even though it's done as a

1525
01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:39,079
form of recreation. For example, if you were to walk

1526
01:24:39,359 --> 01:24:41,720
two and a half or three hours for some kind

1527
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:44,960
of work and it was to become arduous, this would

1528
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:48,520
be mortal sin. So I found on Lord's Day this

1529
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:52,000
is the most talmudic like crazy stuff ever in a

1530
01:24:52,079 --> 01:24:56,039
normative Roman Catholic moral theology. This is why we don't

1531
01:24:56,079 --> 01:24:58,920
have this problem, right, We didn't have to swing from

1532
01:24:59,039 --> 01:25:05,000
this insane ai autism of crazinessness level over to Vatican

1533
01:25:05,039 --> 01:25:08,079
to clown mass. Notice the pendulum swinging of the madness

1534
01:25:08,079 --> 01:25:11,680
in Rome. Catholicism of the extreme of this in this

1535
01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:15,479
was written in nineteen fifty one, nineteen fifties. This is

1536
01:25:15,479 --> 01:25:18,840
what your your your confessor would tell you in nineteen feet.

1537
01:25:18,960 --> 01:25:21,720
Oh my child, my child, did you work? Did you walk?

1538
01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:23,800
Did you walk two hours? My child?

1539
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:26,119
Speaker 3: Did you start sweating when you walk two hours? When

1540
01:25:26,159 --> 01:25:27,880
you hit the when you hit the fifth mile of

1541
01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:29,960
the two hours of the walk, you lost all grace.

1542
01:25:30,079 --> 01:25:30,279
Speaker 1: Son.

1543
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:33,760
Speaker 3: You're entering the fighters a hell once you hit once

1544
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:35,920
you hit the fifth mile, you're about to fall over

1545
01:25:35,960 --> 01:25:38,800
into Dunte's and Pheradom, My child, it's ridiculous.

1546
01:25:40,239 --> 01:25:44,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Is this stan mudic? And again it's fairy setic

1547
01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:50,439
And is this is good exactly? Yeah? If it follows

1548
01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:52,279
the text, you know it would have been, you know,

1549
01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:53,800
at the time of Christ on the side of the

1550
01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:54,680
Pharisees saying you know.

1551
01:25:55,840 --> 01:25:58,000
Speaker 1: You can't hit grains on the habit.

1552
01:26:00,079 --> 01:26:03,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, in front of the adulterous wife. Yeah, yeah,

1553
01:26:03,119 --> 01:26:06,680
you know you can. You can have too stole the

1554
01:26:06,239 --> 01:26:08,920
kind of Christ of where where is Jesus doing? Economy?

1555
01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:09,760
Are you?

1556
01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:13,399
Speaker 1: Now? This is I cite one crazy example. Uh, but

1557
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:17,000
by the way, that actually characterizes the Latin trad mindset.

1558
01:26:17,039 --> 01:26:19,159
Like if you're in the trad say the world, you're

1559
01:26:19,239 --> 01:26:25,119
characterized by that kind of obsessive, superstitious attitude. Actually, and

1560
01:26:25,199 --> 01:26:26,439
a lot of o c D. Actually a lot of

1561
01:26:26,479 --> 01:26:30,479
people who are extremely excessive compulsive disorder people. I let,

1562
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:33,359
I met multiple SSPX priests, all of whom had actually

1563
01:26:33,359 --> 01:26:37,000
to get counseling for their extreme OCD. So it's it's

1564
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:39,840
actually a feature of that religion. There's something else weird

1565
01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:42,800
going on there, This idea of you know, just like

1566
01:26:42,880 --> 01:26:45,119
if I sneeze during the Mass, I'm damned, it's a

1567
01:26:45,159 --> 01:26:47,479
mortal sin. The mass is not valid. Just crazy stuff

1568
01:26:47,520 --> 01:26:50,359
like that, But it's an attitude.

1569
01:26:49,880 --> 01:26:54,640
Speaker 2: Of, yeah, that everything needs to be tidy nosed. Is

1570
01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:57,119
it called the church a mess? No? Church is traditionally

1571
01:26:57,159 --> 01:27:00,800
to evolve, it evolves this way that we involved in

1572
01:27:00,840 --> 01:27:02,600
dogma or anything. But if you look at all the

1573
01:27:02,680 --> 01:27:05,600
churches organized, it's it's been it's been organizing, it's been

1574
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:08,359
organized this way. And of course, you know, economia is

1575
01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:11,880
essentral to this because at some point the the application,

1576
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:17,479
the very application of the canonman actually go against the

1577
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:19,920
first idea of the canon. That's why it's brought up.

1578
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:22,279
That's why it's it's it's even in the Bible. That's

1579
01:27:22,279 --> 01:27:24,920
why it's the one thing to be very very tidy,

1580
01:27:25,079 --> 01:27:28,680
very very understandable. And you know you're just doing loawyering.

1581
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:30,720
If you look at early Church, it's not about lowering.

1582
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:34,960
People are making some level of concession. And here you're

1583
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:38,239
you're like, even so a graph about salvation there, the

1584
01:27:38,279 --> 01:27:40,800
graph about salvation. It looked like a board game, you know,

1585
01:27:41,119 --> 01:27:45,920
like the float shot.

1586
01:27:44,479 --> 01:27:46,920
Speaker 1: Chart from like Final Fantasy with hit points and all

1587
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:47,880
kinds of crazy stuff.

1588
01:27:48,479 --> 01:27:50,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like an RPG. And you know you

1589
01:27:50,720 --> 01:27:53,399
can get new This kind of indulgence is by praying

1590
01:27:53,399 --> 01:27:58,199
it this time turns this way. In this church. This

1591
01:27:58,319 --> 01:28:00,600
is not it's working. You know, there's not being mystical

1592
01:28:00,640 --> 01:28:05,720
here says nothing. It's it's it's a.

1593
01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:09,239
Speaker 1: Weird it's a weird obsession with a legalistic spirit exactly.

1594
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:12,800
And Vatican two is partly a reaction to that. That's

1595
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:16,279
what I'm trying to stress is that is that part

1596
01:28:16,319 --> 01:28:18,000
of what's going on here is a reaction to that.

1597
01:28:18,039 --> 01:28:23,000
So Taylor Marshall was mad about economia and oh, I

1598
01:28:23,039 --> 01:28:26,319
think Forrancis is actually bringing a gnomia into the church

1599
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:30,600
or the dogs. It's a conspiracy. Francis is a secretly

1600
01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:34,079
or the dogs right with his with his gravel voice.

1601
01:28:35,159 --> 01:28:37,960
But what I'm trying to say is that that we

1602
01:28:38,039 --> 01:28:40,760
didn't have that problem because we understood that you can't

1603
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:43,159
have a one size fits all answer to every single

1604
01:28:43,159 --> 01:28:45,199
moral problem. And that was the problem of the Pharisees.

1605
01:28:45,239 --> 01:28:48,479
So economia is the bishop making the decision. How do

1606
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:51,439
you think the church and the first millennium operated through

1607
01:28:51,479 --> 01:28:54,239
the local bishop making the decision. You can't ask the

1608
01:28:54,279 --> 01:28:57,159
pope to solve all the problems in the ancient world.

1609
01:28:57,279 --> 01:28:59,760
He's a thousand miles away. How's he going to solve?

1610
01:29:00,079 --> 01:29:02,439
Speaker 2: Think things? As a canon and I see as it

1611
01:29:02,479 --> 01:29:06,760
states that like you know knows this, Penancey's like, oh

1612
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:08,159
you do this, you gets this, you know, it's like

1613
01:29:08,359 --> 01:29:12,319
a menu things is something you know, like even criticizes

1614
01:29:12,359 --> 01:29:15,279
that just what you do, what you priest does. Yeah,

1615
01:29:15,279 --> 01:29:17,920
this is a canon. But he says that Penance needs, uh,

1616
01:29:18,079 --> 01:29:20,840
like you need to understand the independance. It needs to

1617
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:23,720
be in accordance to the penitent. You know. That's why

1618
01:29:23,720 --> 01:29:24,079
I mean.

1619
01:29:25,640 --> 01:29:28,319
Speaker 1: This is actually this is they will actually cite that

1620
01:29:28,399 --> 01:29:31,359
in their proofs of how indulgence is developed. They'll actually

1621
01:29:31,399 --> 01:29:35,159
admit they'll say, well, indulgences are because in the early Church,

1622
01:29:35,239 --> 01:29:37,640
if you would committed a serious sin and you were uh,

1623
01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:41,119
you were refraining from the table for six years, if

1624
01:29:41,159 --> 01:29:43,760
the bishop gave you that long of a penance, he

1625
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:46,079
could also if he saw that you were truly contrite,

1626
01:29:46,319 --> 01:29:49,520
he could remove that temporal punishment of six years or

1627
01:29:49,560 --> 01:29:51,680
whatever that was that was laid upon you from coming

1628
01:29:51,720 --> 01:29:54,359
to the Eucharist. And so therefore that's how they they

1629
01:29:54,359 --> 01:29:56,560
will argue this in their apologetic That's how they will say,

1630
01:29:56,600 --> 01:29:59,159
oh see, now we have the ability to remove any

1631
01:29:59,279 --> 01:30:01,560
kind of temporal and it just turns into this giant

1632
01:30:02,119 --> 01:30:06,000
like algorithm equation scheme, which is ludicrous and crazy.

1633
01:30:06,760 --> 01:30:11,319
Speaker 2: Economy. So we have canons that they teach economy in

1634
01:30:11,359 --> 01:30:13,760
the in the early consuls, and they tell you not

1635
01:30:14,079 --> 01:30:17,239
to be aspered about about the canonical law.

1636
01:30:17,399 --> 01:30:18,720
Speaker 1: And by the way, all we have to do to

1637
01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:21,159
refute that stupid argument is just appeal to the Uniates

1638
01:30:21,159 --> 01:30:23,439
once again, because the Uniates will operate just like we do.

1639
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:30,079
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so he uses this for re baptism and christnation.

1640
01:30:30,199 --> 01:30:31,640
Here we talk about this.

1641
01:30:33,039 --> 01:30:34,479
Speaker 1: I do want to touch on that real quick, because

1642
01:30:34,479 --> 01:30:36,600
he said that we don't see that in the councils.

1643
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:42,079
Uh really really so? Uh So Canon eight of Nicia,

1644
01:30:42,159 --> 01:30:44,600
what does Canon aid of Nicia do well? It has

1645
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:49,319
different It has certain specifications based on the case for

1646
01:30:49,439 --> 01:30:53,079
how to receive schismatic bishops back into the church. So

1647
01:30:53,399 --> 01:30:56,479
it's not universal in all cases. In all situations, how

1648
01:30:56,560 --> 01:31:00,560
even a bishop would be received from schism back into

1649
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:04,000
the Orthodox Church. And in this case, in Cannonade of Nicea,

1650
01:31:04,600 --> 01:31:07,119
they can be received in a way that's different in

1651
01:31:07,199 --> 01:31:10,239
other cases. Right, where's cannonadd And I see, I was

1652
01:31:10,239 --> 01:31:14,199
gonna read it. It reads that the schismatic novationists can

1653
01:31:14,239 --> 01:31:24,760
be received. I'm way off. It says con concerning those

1654
01:31:24,760 --> 01:31:27,920
who call themselves Cathari, that's not the medieval Cathari. These

1655
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:30,560
are novationists right. And by the way, some tried this

1656
01:31:30,640 --> 01:31:35,560
week said that they that I think Cathari might be Orthodox.

1657
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:35,680
Speaker 2: No.

1658
01:31:35,760 --> 01:31:37,479
Speaker 1: I made a video they gun one hundredousand views and

1659
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:40,119
the cathari were stupid heretics. There were Gnostics in the

1660
01:31:40,159 --> 01:31:43,039
Middle Ages. If they can't if these purists, these are

1661
01:31:43,079 --> 01:31:44,880
the purest and novationists, if they came over to the

1662
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:47,960
Catholic Church and absolute, the Catholic absolute Church, this great

1663
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:51,399
and holy centered Icia decrees that they who are or ordained,

1664
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:54,479
should continue as they are in clergy. But if they,

1665
01:31:55,079 --> 01:31:58,199
before all things necessary, that they should be professed in writing,

1666
01:31:58,279 --> 01:32:00,479
that they observe and follow the dogmas of our Church,

1667
01:32:01,199 --> 01:32:03,439
and then they will not commune persons who have been

1668
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:08,520
twice married commune with persons who are trice twice married.

1669
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:10,640
I think it's somehot digamy. And with those who have

1670
01:32:11,079 --> 01:32:15,039
lapsed in persecution and have had a period of penance,

1671
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:18,319
so you could actually relax the period of penance.

1672
01:32:19,359 --> 01:32:21,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, somethings. That's great. Also with the canons against the

1673
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:25,680
cath right. So you know, it's where the Gnostic says

1674
01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:29,680
you you've got the council of Gangra, which is accepted

1675
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:33,439
a chemical council, and that that shows that you you

1676
01:32:33,479 --> 01:32:38,279
are anathema if you believe that receiving if you believe

1677
01:32:38,319 --> 01:32:41,000
that receiving the Eucharist from the hand of a married priest.

1678
01:32:42,359 --> 01:32:45,520
Is makes it dirty, and it's a great segue for

1679
01:32:46,520 --> 01:32:49,239
it for the next part because you know, after bringing Conomia,

1680
01:32:49,319 --> 01:32:53,119
of course they are they are talking about about divorce

1681
01:32:54,439 --> 01:32:59,199
and stuff like this. So to court martial it says that, oh,

1682
01:32:59,279 --> 01:33:03,239
we are blushing when when we talk about divorce, really

1683
01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:06,199
because it seems like there is a there is a

1684
01:33:06,239 --> 01:33:09,800
tradition here. It seems that so first of all, I'm

1685
01:33:09,800 --> 01:33:12,199
going to cover everything that relates to the priest stood

1686
01:33:12,279 --> 01:33:16,079
when it comes to divorce. So he says that, oh, yeah,

1687
01:33:16,079 --> 01:33:18,920
we're important loose morality. Actually know, if you look at

1688
01:33:19,279 --> 01:33:21,199
a father to that, Tournam has a great talk on

1689
01:33:21,279 --> 01:33:25,600
Roman Catholicism that mentions this. If you look at Nicia,

1690
01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:29,279
it states that a priest cannot live with with several

1691
01:33:29,319 --> 01:33:32,479
women in this house, but that that does not include

1692
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:36,079
his wife. And actually is they were talks about maybe

1693
01:33:36,399 --> 01:33:41,319
restricting this like you're making you know, cilbism monetary at Nicia.

1694
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:44,960
And it's actually a father of the desert who came

1695
01:33:45,039 --> 01:33:51,680
forward and said that no, by doing this, you would

1696
01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:55,640
set yourself to a higher standard than the apostles themselves.

1697
01:33:55,680 --> 01:33:58,239
So we were part of tradition that even suggested that

1698
01:33:58,359 --> 01:34:02,439
the apostle remains married, you know, remain married, which actually

1699
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:05,960
was you know, his confirmed some apocalyphone which talks about

1700
01:34:06,239 --> 01:34:15,479
divine Apostle Peter preaching with his wife. He states that, yeah, monetaries,

1701
01:34:16,720 --> 01:34:24,039
clerical celibacy fosters a great a great missionary spirit, which

1702
01:34:24,079 --> 01:34:26,279
is realicuous because we're going to talk about this later,

1703
01:34:26,319 --> 01:34:30,720
because he goes on full it makes really bad argument

1704
01:34:31,239 --> 01:34:35,760
like prosperity gospel tire, but he says it fosters a

1705
01:34:35,760 --> 01:34:39,560
great missionary spirit. And then then he quotes, then he said,

1706
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:42,960
we converted the Barbarians, you know, before greater missionary spirits.

1707
01:34:43,039 --> 01:34:46,560
If you look at it, you know the only barbarian

1708
01:34:46,600 --> 01:34:50,119
tribes that converted to to to you know the United

1709
01:34:50,199 --> 01:34:53,720
Church where the Franks and the Franks in their first

1710
01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:57,359
counsul some years after being converted, they even make a

1711
01:34:57,439 --> 01:35:03,199
cannon stating that, uh so it's the concept of audience

1712
01:35:03,359 --> 01:35:08,079
five five eleven for everybody was stating that at least

1713
01:35:08,079 --> 01:35:11,520
the king needs to approve anybody joining the clergy unless

1714
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:15,560
there are sons of clergy, which shows that you know,

1715
01:35:15,640 --> 01:35:20,000
the guys who we eventilize the Franks were actually married.

1716
01:35:20,199 --> 01:35:22,760
We're having wives. We're going to talk about the Franks

1717
01:35:23,000 --> 01:35:28,199
industries or papers in part. So this is about clerical celebacy.

1718
01:35:28,199 --> 01:35:30,600
Even today they will admit that they they expanded on

1719
01:35:30,640 --> 01:35:34,760
it is the easy added, you know, just like the Pharisees. Again,

1720
01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:37,600
you know, burdens that are very hard to to hold.

1721
01:35:37,880 --> 01:35:39,600
I'm not going to comment on the pedofile stuff, but

1722
01:35:39,600 --> 01:35:43,840
you know about the pedophile stuff. Then he brings up

1723
01:35:43,880 --> 01:35:48,720
divorce itself, the Orthodox and blushing when you bring up divorce. No, again,

1724
01:35:48,840 --> 01:35:51,399
we follows the low You mentioned the canon of puzzle

1725
01:35:51,600 --> 01:35:55,359
about about divorce, and they said, oh, you know, we

1726
01:35:55,479 --> 01:35:57,119
we don't know divorce.

1727
01:35:58,359 --> 01:36:02,319
Speaker 1: They cite some Greek obsc your Kansas St. Basil. Really

1728
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:04,039
nobody's heard of him. Who's that?

1729
01:36:04,920 --> 01:36:08,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, And even even like when he starts talking about this,

1730
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:15,279
actually frienders on him, saying, oh yeahs a, yeah, there's

1731
01:36:15,279 --> 01:36:17,239
a there's a pope who said you can remarry if

1732
01:36:17,239 --> 01:36:19,720
one of the spouse is dead. It's already kind of

1733
01:36:19,760 --> 01:36:22,680
contracted in like Marveles to do a double takes what

1734
01:36:22,720 --> 01:36:27,359
a pos it is of course. Yeah, yes, actually there's

1735
01:36:27,359 --> 01:36:30,399
a there's a purpose. We said, we said this, I.

1736
01:36:30,319 --> 01:36:33,039
Speaker 1: Think you or you put that in the message, and

1737
01:36:33,039 --> 01:36:35,319
he was like walking you as fast as liking.

1738
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:39,760
Speaker 2: I twated another purpose. So this is what's about, you know,

1739
01:36:40,760 --> 01:36:44,399
remarriage of dead spouse if the spouse is dead, which

1740
01:36:44,399 --> 01:36:46,560
you know, which already contracts the ideas that your marriages

1741
01:36:47,000 --> 01:36:49,359
is turtle, and so it's going to be broken. Yeah,

1742
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:52,279
you know are you aren't you engaged in adult three?

1743
01:36:52,359 --> 01:36:54,159
Well once you have to to wipe in the heaven

1744
01:36:54,199 --> 01:36:58,079
if you do this according to your own standards. So yes,

1745
01:36:58,119 --> 01:37:01,600
that's a that's a problem. And I brought up another

1746
01:37:02,039 --> 01:37:06,079
canon by Pope Perpugenius to a second as a council

1747
01:37:06,119 --> 01:37:08,239
of Rome. So this is a purple the consul defining

1748
01:37:08,239 --> 01:37:11,520
a doctor for by the way, Eugene is a second

1749
01:37:11,560 --> 01:37:15,439
as a council of frobe In in eight twenty six

1750
01:37:16,279 --> 01:37:20,119
says that you can actually divorce for adultery, you know,

1751
01:37:20,159 --> 01:37:25,720
which is biblical and remarriage. So you're not following the purple.

1752
01:37:25,479 --> 01:37:29,239
Speaker 1: Of that, by the way, I love this. Yeah, I'm

1753
01:37:29,239 --> 01:37:29,680
not saying it.

1754
01:37:31,399 --> 01:37:34,520
Speaker 2: Didn't address it. I still want my money back. You

1755
01:37:34,840 --> 01:37:38,920
owe me to two euros. So he says that, yes,

1756
01:37:39,479 --> 01:37:41,079
so he says it's about divorce. So no, we do

1757
01:37:41,159 --> 01:37:44,279
not blush. We just we just follow. If you look

1758
01:37:44,319 --> 01:37:46,720
at so then it brings up you you can have

1759
01:37:46,880 --> 01:37:50,600
four marriage and real marriages, you know, if you look

1760
01:37:50,600 --> 01:37:54,439
at it. I've never never seen it being being put

1761
01:37:55,520 --> 01:37:59,800
into effect. I've never met anybody. We we are ower marriage.

1762
01:38:00,039 --> 01:38:03,199
It's a ceremony of free marriage is actually very it's

1763
01:38:03,199 --> 01:38:03,760
a repentance.

1764
01:38:04,119 --> 01:38:07,119
Speaker 1: Random claim he says from my and Orf Like, oh,

1765
01:38:07,159 --> 01:38:09,720
Myndorf one time said that there's four marriages. Well you

1766
01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:12,800
didn't source it. Maybe he did, but who cares? Like like,

1767
01:38:12,880 --> 01:38:15,000
I've never heard that. I've never seen that. Who when

1768
01:38:15,079 --> 01:38:16,520
when has this actually happened? Right?

1769
01:38:17,079 --> 01:38:20,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, we we we have rules that says that you know,

1770
01:38:20,560 --> 01:38:23,640
of course your marriage can fail and that doesn't mean

1771
01:38:23,640 --> 01:38:25,760
you have to become a monk because your marriage failed,

1772
01:38:26,119 --> 01:38:30,359
because it will be arbitrary again, which you know. But

1773
01:38:30,359 --> 01:38:32,079
but I think we've been a kind of to say,

1774
01:38:32,079 --> 01:38:36,000
you know, when you're married two times, it's already it's

1775
01:38:36,039 --> 01:38:37,159
it's already almost settled.

1776
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:42,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, the canonical there's like restrictions on it and gets

1777
01:38:42,000 --> 01:38:46,199
more and more kind of restricted in terms of how

1778
01:38:46,199 --> 01:38:49,199
it's viewed. Yeah, I don't. I think those arguments are

1779
01:38:49,199 --> 01:38:51,520
really terrible and disingenuous when they when they try to

1780
01:38:51,680 --> 01:38:54,439
do the moral gotchas. I mean, come on, dude, as

1781
01:38:54,439 --> 01:38:57,159
a Roman Catholny, you can't be playing any moral gotchas

1782
01:38:57,199 --> 01:38:59,920
on anybody else with all of the nonsense of the

1783
01:39:00,039 --> 01:39:03,760
pedos and Franks, clown masses and puppet masses and all

1784
01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:07,079
this gibberish. Uh. And at the same time, when you

1785
01:39:07,159 --> 01:39:09,399
admit that all the things that you attack us for

1786
01:39:09,560 --> 01:39:12,199
are in the Eastern Church that you believe as part

1787
01:39:12,199 --> 01:39:14,159
of the Roman Collity Church for the first million, for

1788
01:39:14,199 --> 01:39:16,880
the first millennium, So you're just you're just undermining your

1789
01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:19,119
own argument and your own church every time you do that.

1790
01:39:19,159 --> 01:39:19,720
It's stupid.

1791
01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:23,640
Speaker 2: Yeah. Undivorced, you know, it seems to take a job

1792
01:39:23,680 --> 01:39:26,359
at this. I'm going to take a job too. There

1793
01:39:26,399 --> 01:39:29,600
are annulment, which is just a joke.

1794
01:39:29,640 --> 01:39:32,039
Speaker 1: Everybody knows, even the trads no annments or jokes.

1795
01:39:33,319 --> 01:39:36,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. So annulment is great because it says that it's

1796
01:39:36,720 --> 01:39:39,039
not a divorce. It's in all effects, it's a divorce,

1797
01:39:40,239 --> 01:39:43,479
but it's just showing that it's the sacrament never happened.

1798
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:46,359
First of all, you can have as many an elements

1799
01:39:46,439 --> 01:39:51,319
as you want, because technically went married, which is IPO critical.

1800
01:39:51,640 --> 01:39:54,840
And something that's interesting is that what happens to whatever

1801
01:39:54,920 --> 01:39:57,279
happened to your marriage, if you know if it failed,

1802
01:39:57,560 --> 01:40:00,960
what happens to it, does it mean that you know best?

1803
01:40:01,000 --> 01:40:03,720
It does? It means that you know if your marriage fels,

1804
01:40:03,760 --> 01:40:05,600
it just means that you were never married. It just

1805
01:40:05,640 --> 01:40:13,039
sounds like shreddingers adult three. You just you just can't

1806
01:40:13,039 --> 01:40:13,920
know whether you've been married.

1807
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:16,720
Speaker 1: And the trads even bitch about the fact that annulments

1808
01:40:16,720 --> 01:40:19,319
are like there's a zillion annulments everywhere in the novasorto,

1809
01:40:19,439 --> 01:40:22,239
and it's abused all the time. And oh, but by

1810
01:40:22,279 --> 01:40:24,640
the way, we have a legality point by which they

1811
01:40:24,680 --> 01:40:26,800
again they're doing the exact same thing as the Pharisees,

1812
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:28,960
like we are better than you because we have a

1813
01:40:29,039 --> 01:40:32,960
legality that allows us to have a uh, the appearance

1814
01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:35,199
of moral superiority over you when you do the exact

1815
01:40:35,239 --> 01:40:37,039
same things in your and your worst. There's high there's

1816
01:40:37,359 --> 01:40:40,760
higher rates of divorce amongst them than there are per capita,

1817
01:40:41,119 --> 01:40:44,039
even amongst Orthodox Supposedly Lewis had quotes on that, and

1818
01:40:44,119 --> 01:40:46,279
y'all stream, by the way, everybody, if you don't if

1819
01:40:46,279 --> 01:40:49,359
you want more than our stream. Go listen to uh David.

1820
01:40:49,640 --> 01:40:51,199
They touched on a lot of points that I'm not

1821
01:40:51,239 --> 01:40:53,079
touching on, that we're not touching on. But David the Mill,

1822
01:40:53,319 --> 01:40:57,199
the real Medwhite. I'll link him and uh snack and

1823
01:40:57,279 --> 01:41:02,239
Lewis's stream below here a little bit. But Throadinger is adultery.

1824
01:41:02,239 --> 01:41:03,199
That's hilarious.

1825
01:41:03,800 --> 01:41:06,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Something that's great also is that you know annulment

1826
01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:08,960
is not only a moral problem, because you know, there's

1827
01:41:09,000 --> 01:41:11,880
more grounds for annulments and for divorce. You know, basically

1828
01:41:12,359 --> 01:41:16,079
is even in the Catechism of Flirt of Moscow, its

1829
01:41:16,239 --> 01:41:19,119
list it makes a list of of what what can

1830
01:41:19,359 --> 01:41:22,199
you know be a basis for divorce, It boils down

1831
01:41:22,199 --> 01:41:25,600
to two points, really, you know, which is.

1832
01:41:26,079 --> 01:41:27,640
Speaker 1: How many times can you get an old They have

1833
01:41:27,760 --> 01:41:32,560
infinite allowance you could conceivably be uh annulled and an

1834
01:41:32,680 --> 01:41:34,279
infinite number of times.

1835
01:41:35,079 --> 01:41:38,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the filler, the Cateochicism of Filirt of Moscow

1836
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:41,640
states that basically you have it boiled into two points,

1837
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:46,199
really adultery and one person being in imminent danger of death.

1838
01:41:46,319 --> 01:41:50,880
So you know, which is again understandable and it's it's

1839
01:41:50,920 --> 01:41:53,399
perfectly acceptable economy unless you have to say that a

1840
01:41:53,520 --> 01:41:56,199
wife as a sacramental duty, you know, to let children

1841
01:41:56,279 --> 01:41:59,000
being infected by a contagious disease or being bidden up

1842
01:41:59,039 --> 01:42:01,520
by a drunk husband, which would make you a very

1843
01:42:01,600 --> 01:42:04,800
sill right. Uh. Something else is that annulment bring up

1844
01:42:04,880 --> 01:42:08,039
a real theological problem and for people are so you know,

1845
01:42:08,960 --> 01:42:12,319
in love if if the great Saints in Augustine, we're

1846
01:42:12,319 --> 01:42:16,399
going to touch on that again. You're creating donatism because

1847
01:42:16,880 --> 01:42:19,640
by having you know, by having an aulement, if your

1848
01:42:19,640 --> 01:42:23,880
marriage fails, it means that that you don't you don't

1849
01:42:23,920 --> 01:42:26,479
have sacramental certainty because you know, in order to do

1850
01:42:26,560 --> 01:42:29,880
this you also have to resort to to to prost

1851
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:32,920
and thinking, oh, actually the ministers of of these sacraments

1852
01:42:33,399 --> 01:42:37,199
is not the priest. It's it's espouses. But you know,

1853
01:42:38,800 --> 01:42:40,479
isn't it one of the sacraments that the priest can do.

1854
01:42:40,560 --> 01:42:43,279
Isn't one of the seven sacraments of the church. That

1855
01:42:43,399 --> 01:42:46,439
means that everybody can perform sacraments? Yeah, just like the

1856
01:42:46,560 --> 01:42:51,279
person and think, so, yes, you're creating donatism. You you

1857
01:42:51,279 --> 01:42:53,279
you you treat you you tell you tell you that

1858
01:42:53,319 --> 01:42:57,720
you're prestant and you're you're you're thinking like a perstant

1859
01:42:57,720 --> 01:42:59,800
you know, the keys are to to bind and and bind.

1860
01:43:00,159 --> 01:43:02,399
A priest can reasonably be the fruct The priest can

1861
01:43:02,399 --> 01:43:07,600
reasonably barrow you from the Eucharist or the bishop in

1862
01:43:07,600 --> 01:43:11,079
that case, the same thing can be done with marriage.

1863
01:43:11,119 --> 01:43:13,319
So we do not blush. We are just consistent. You

1864
01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:15,960
actually are worse, and you try to hide it, which

1865
01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:22,960
makes it even worse. Then then talk about contraception. Uh

1866
01:43:23,159 --> 01:43:25,880
we talk about this in the industry with David as well.

1867
01:43:27,760 --> 01:43:30,119
If you, if you alders to the same stand that

1868
01:43:30,159 --> 01:43:33,479
as you are. First of all, you allow it right now.

1869
01:43:33,760 --> 01:43:37,279
The unit's a lot of stuff right now. And and

1870
01:43:37,439 --> 01:43:40,079
you know, just because you do natural family planning doesn't

1871
01:43:40,079 --> 01:43:42,720
mean that it is not a form of contraception. It

1872
01:43:42,800 --> 01:43:50,239
is going against against natural law, you know. Yeah, uh yeah.

1873
01:43:50,279 --> 01:43:54,560
Speaker 1: Also, I wanted to cite uh octorum f day. I

1874
01:43:54,640 --> 01:43:57,680
meant to cite this earlier, which is this condemning the

1875
01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:03,680
center of Pistoia the jansen Us, because actually oxworn Fide

1876
01:44:04,119 --> 01:44:07,479
condemns the make sure this is a whole document here

1877
01:44:07,520 --> 01:44:11,239
before I put it up. It actually condemns the SSPX

1878
01:44:11,319 --> 01:44:19,520
trad position not just on certain sacraments, but on any

1879
01:44:19,520 --> 01:44:23,239
of the sacraments because it condemned the proposition that the

1880
01:44:23,359 --> 01:44:27,640
Roman Sea can give defective rights to the Church at all.

1881
01:44:27,720 --> 01:44:30,640
You cannot believe or hold that the Roman Sea has

1882
01:44:31,159 --> 01:44:34,479
promulgated defective rights, because that would undermine all of the

1883
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:39,920
sacramento unity that the Romancy is supposed to provide. And

1884
01:44:39,960 --> 01:44:43,359
it was actually the Jansenists, the Synotopustoia, which was arguing

1885
01:44:43,399 --> 01:44:47,000
that the Roman Sea had made errors and had given

1886
01:44:47,000 --> 01:44:52,239
defective rights and the liturgy should be in the vernacular,

1887
01:44:52,279 --> 01:44:54,199
et cetera, et cetera. And the reason I bring that

1888
01:44:54,279 --> 01:44:57,279
up is that all of the trads are mad about

1889
01:44:57,319 --> 01:45:00,279
all of the sacraments after Vatican Two. It's not just

1890
01:45:01,359 --> 01:45:05,760
it's not just the sacrament of the Mass and the

1891
01:45:05,840 --> 01:45:08,119
Latin Mass, and whether the words are valid the words

1892
01:45:08,159 --> 01:45:11,399
of Institution, which you know, the decrees after Trent say

1893
01:45:11,399 --> 01:45:15,399
that you have to use the there's a specific valid form,

1894
01:45:15,520 --> 01:45:17,920
right And then the whole argument is that the New

1895
01:45:17,960 --> 01:45:21,239
Mass changes that by using the word for all and

1896
01:45:21,359 --> 01:45:24,920
not for many. And so every trad knows about that dispute,

1897
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:28,600
right well. The problem is that the more consistent the

1898
01:45:28,640 --> 01:45:31,560
trads got, they also got into having problems with the

1899
01:45:31,600 --> 01:45:35,119
other sacraments right, So then the priestly right of ordination

1900
01:45:35,199 --> 01:45:38,840
becomes a problem, and you get people writing order of Melchizedic.

1901
01:45:38,880 --> 01:45:40,680
I think Michael Davies has a book on that, and

1902
01:45:41,399 --> 01:45:44,560
people analyzing and pointing out how the Novasorto when it

1903
01:45:44,640 --> 01:45:46,640
did the new right for ordination of priests, it's very

1904
01:45:46,640 --> 01:45:50,640
similar to Anglicanism. But if Leo the thirteenth had infallibly

1905
01:45:50,680 --> 01:45:53,840
condemned Anglican ordinations, then it becomes a problem. And that's

1906
01:45:53,880 --> 01:45:58,159
where you get the trads who start doubting ordinations for

1907
01:45:58,640 --> 01:46:01,399
post Vatican to priests or whatever. Right now, I'm not interested.

1908
01:46:01,439 --> 01:46:03,960
I don't really care about the bunch of squabbles anymore.

1909
01:46:04,319 --> 01:46:07,319
I'm not involved in that world. What I'm trying to say, though,

1910
01:46:07,399 --> 01:46:10,920
is that all of these sacraments underwent the seven Sacraments

1911
01:46:10,960 --> 01:46:15,720
underwent revision, and so it doesn't matter whether you say

1912
01:46:15,920 --> 01:46:18,039
that whether you have a problem with with one or

1913
01:46:18,079 --> 01:46:21,920
all of the changes in the in the revised sacraments.

1914
01:46:23,039 --> 01:46:28,239
Octorum fide dogmatically condemns the idea, and this condemns all

1915
01:46:28,239 --> 01:46:31,279
the trads by extension who aren't set of a contest.

1916
01:46:32,039 --> 01:46:35,960
It condemns the idea that the Roman Sea can promulgate

1917
01:46:36,119 --> 01:46:39,399
defective in any sense rights for the whole church, and

1918
01:46:39,439 --> 01:46:42,159
most of the trads ultimately end up saying that the

1919
01:46:42,239 --> 01:46:46,439
texts themselves, the new rights themselves, are defective. Now, not

1920
01:46:46,520 --> 01:46:48,840
every trad says that. You got some that say, oh, well,

1921
01:46:48,840 --> 01:46:51,319
we can reconcile Attican two with everything before it, but

1922
01:46:51,399 --> 01:46:53,119
most of them are getting they get to the point

1923
01:46:53,119 --> 01:46:55,119
where they're honest themselves, and they're like, this doesn't work.

1924
01:46:55,439 --> 01:46:59,760
Mortelium animals cannot be reconciled with Attican two, right, I mean,

1925
01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:01,760
they're totally, they're totally nine day and then and then

1926
01:47:01,920 --> 01:47:04,279
we get Pacha Mama. Right. Obviously it's a different faith,

1927
01:47:04,319 --> 01:47:06,880
it's a different thing. But again I'm just trying to

1928
01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:08,680
stress that if you're gonna be honest with yourself, you're

1929
01:47:08,680 --> 01:47:11,840
gonna be honest with what's in Denzinger, right, the dogmas

1930
01:47:11,880 --> 01:47:13,920
that you have to hold as a Roman Catholic if

1931
01:47:13,960 --> 01:47:16,600
you go back to something like actorm fide, which actorn

1932
01:47:16,640 --> 01:47:19,680
Fide is in here the condemned propos One of those

1933
01:47:19,680 --> 01:47:22,880
condemned propositions is that the Roman Sea can give defective

1934
01:47:22,960 --> 01:47:24,239
rights at all.

1935
01:47:26,520 --> 01:47:29,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, just just a quick side note on the use

1936
01:47:29,640 --> 01:47:32,119
of vernacular. You see a lot of treads that, you know,

1937
01:47:32,199 --> 01:47:36,520
things that Latin is superior, and actually they do by.

1938
01:47:37,920 --> 01:47:40,399
Speaker 1: A magical thing where if they cite the Lord, the

1939
01:47:40,520 --> 01:47:42,640
our Father in Latin, as if that's going to impress

1940
01:47:42,680 --> 01:47:44,760
everybody in wow. Then because I saw a triad the

1941
01:47:44,760 --> 01:47:47,760
other day saying that Latin burns the demons greater if

1942
01:47:47,800 --> 01:47:51,840
you say if you say it in Latin. Yeah, so

1943
01:47:52,159 --> 01:47:55,239
literal Hollywood, right, like the excessist Hollywood.

1944
01:47:54,840 --> 01:47:58,600
Speaker 2: Level for yes, also saying that you know it's a

1945
01:47:58,600 --> 01:48:03,880
magical language, saying that you're comparing all high masses depending

1946
01:48:03,920 --> 01:48:06,359
on you know, if you're using Latin or not. This

1947
01:48:06,439 --> 01:48:08,720
is exactly worshiping a language, and this is you know,

1948
01:48:09,119 --> 01:48:10,520
we're going to right.

1949
01:48:10,520 --> 01:48:12,239
Speaker 1: And that's what you get in the whole. A lot

1950
01:48:12,239 --> 01:48:14,239
of the mindset of the troad world is magic. It's

1951
01:48:14,279 --> 01:48:17,800
like God is a technology that I'm forcing into doing

1952
01:48:17,840 --> 01:48:21,239
my will through. If I perform this ritual perfectly in

1953
01:48:21,279 --> 01:48:23,119
the in the mass, and if I say the words right,

1954
01:48:23,119 --> 01:48:25,199
and if I don't sneeze during the mass and commit

1955
01:48:25,239 --> 01:48:28,079
a moral sin by sneezing, then I can conform God

1956
01:48:28,119 --> 01:48:29,039
to doing what I want.

1957
01:48:30,359 --> 01:48:32,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you see this very pocritical, you know, attack

1958
01:48:33,000 --> 01:48:37,119
on vernacular, saying your Latin is superior. It needs to

1959
01:48:37,119 --> 01:48:38,960
be like it, it needs to be Latin. It's not

1960
01:48:38,960 --> 01:48:42,479
a mass. I've seen someone you know, literally being idologious

1961
01:48:42,520 --> 01:48:46,760
towards this language by saying that the Elder of Ages

1962
01:48:46,840 --> 01:48:51,439
is a treatent in Latin Mass. She's ridiculous. And that's

1963
01:48:51,479 --> 01:48:54,119
also on the trilenty Latin Mass very quick at nine

1964
01:48:54,239 --> 01:48:59,760
minutes minutes, Clander says, I cannot be a proestant because

1965
01:49:01,119 --> 01:49:03,840
because I can't, I can't just do worship like like

1966
01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:06,359
like it was done like a worship, a way of

1967
01:49:06,359 --> 01:49:09,319
worshiping that was created five hundred years ago. This can

1968
01:49:09,359 --> 01:49:11,359
be applied to the turn to Latin Mass. It's it's

1969
01:49:11,399 --> 01:49:13,920
oppressed that inspired mass to to to an extent it

1970
01:49:13,960 --> 01:49:15,920
was done the concept of twenty, which condemned press and

1971
01:49:15,960 --> 01:49:17,840
to an extent that it was also you know, lightened.

1972
01:49:18,960 --> 01:49:22,680
It contradicted to precedent mass and stuff like this. We're

1973
01:49:22,680 --> 01:49:26,800
going to ritualism into these is use of of of Latin.

1974
01:49:27,479 --> 01:49:31,680
The idea that Latin is a super language is is ridiculous.

1975
01:49:31,840 --> 01:49:33,920
These ideas that you need to centralize everything on Latin

1976
01:49:34,079 --> 01:49:36,000
ex actually doing the work of the anti crest again

1977
01:49:36,000 --> 01:49:38,319
by trying to to to to create you know, what

1978
01:49:38,479 --> 01:49:41,800
is given mystically and divenly. You know, with the glossalalia,

1979
01:49:42,079 --> 01:49:46,359
the speaking in tongues uh and doing doing it politically,

1980
01:49:46,600 --> 01:49:51,199
you're just recreating the bubble. Bubble was destroyed because because

1981
01:49:51,359 --> 01:49:54,800
for for for this reeason as well. So that's that's

1982
01:49:54,840 --> 01:49:56,960
very good. They also create. You know, this criticism of

1983
01:49:57,039 --> 01:50:01,359
vernacular is is also you know, totally forgetting the early

1984
01:50:01,840 --> 01:50:06,439
the early history, because what is the you know, most Bible,

1985
01:50:06,640 --> 01:50:10,159
it's a vulgate. Why is it called vulgate because it's

1986
01:50:10,159 --> 01:50:14,000
a vernacular? If if if the Mass was performed in Latin,

1987
01:50:14,119 --> 01:50:16,920
is because it's it was a vernacular in the first place.

1988
01:50:16,920 --> 01:50:19,840
And you cannot say that, you know, performing in vernacular

1989
01:50:20,119 --> 01:50:21,960
is bad or has heresy because you have says that

1990
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:25,279
are literally saints, because they even invented vernacular the same

1991
01:50:25,359 --> 01:50:28,960
Curly and Sine Methodius who invented the Glagolitics script which

1992
01:50:29,039 --> 01:50:33,800
later became the Slavonic. All Slavic languages are saints because

1993
01:50:33,800 --> 01:50:37,000
of this. So you're just denying you want saint, you

1994
01:50:37,039 --> 01:50:41,960
won't church again talking about the Mass I'm just gonna

1995
01:50:42,279 --> 01:50:46,359
you know, just for the ritualist, I'm just gonna quote

1996
01:50:47,960 --> 01:50:54,199
what Fortesque Roman Catholic story that is thatwards the rites

1997
01:50:54,279 --> 01:50:59,560
for the Catholic Encyclopaedia. Right in under the entry Liturgy

1998
01:50:59,600 --> 01:51:02,520
of the Mass, it says that the liturgy of the

1999
01:51:02,560 --> 01:51:07,479
Mass that existed in its earliest form in the Roman

2000
01:51:07,520 --> 01:51:11,199
Mass as witnessing, justin Martyr's second century account, is of

2001
01:51:11,359 --> 01:51:15,399
Eastant time. So you know, just just to remind you, no,

2002
01:51:16,039 --> 01:51:19,600
there is no supremacy in in the masses, no supremacy

2003
01:51:20,159 --> 01:51:22,640
instead of like this in any way you have to

2004
01:51:22,680 --> 01:51:26,600
accept all of masses because of the units. Anyway, that

2005
01:51:26,800 --> 01:51:29,880
was just a quick side note on languages also, you know, uh,

2006
01:51:30,399 --> 01:51:33,079
this worship of languages is idolization of languages. You can

2007
01:51:33,119 --> 01:51:36,640
see it up here in in other you know, Protestants

2008
01:51:36,720 --> 01:51:39,439
like you have the Protestants Baptists who will worship the

2009
01:51:39,439 --> 01:51:40,399
Bible itself, things that.

2010
01:51:41,159 --> 01:51:43,479
Speaker 1: We just read the Great they won't magically.

2011
01:51:43,159 --> 01:51:48,319
Speaker 2: Not yeah, KGV onlyst you know, even Islam. You know

2012
01:51:48,399 --> 01:51:50,479
they say, oh, if you don't head in Arabic, it

2013
01:51:50,479 --> 01:51:52,880
doesn't work. They do the same thing. So at the

2014
01:51:52,880 --> 01:51:58,039
first minute or engaging in idolatry. They don't speak Latin,

2015
01:51:58,159 --> 01:52:01,239
but the Latin Church like we both in a relationships

2016
01:52:01,600 --> 01:52:04,439
two talk in Russia. Do we do we do Slavinic thing? No,

2017
01:52:05,479 --> 01:52:06,359
because it's not.

2018
01:52:08,880 --> 01:52:12,079
Speaker 1: Right. It's always it should always be vernacular for the audience.

2019
01:52:12,319 --> 01:52:15,399
I want to read real quick quote from Emal's in

2020
01:52:15,439 --> 01:52:18,920
the Chat st Emil, but his analysis of their stream

2021
01:52:19,039 --> 01:52:21,000
was great when I think he summarized it well. He said,

2022
01:52:21,000 --> 01:52:23,640
the Roman Catholic Church that these trads belong to is

2023
01:52:23,680 --> 01:52:27,039
like an idealized platonic form that only exists in their mind.

2024
01:52:27,600 --> 01:52:30,560
It does not correspond to the actual external world in

2025
01:52:30,560 --> 01:52:33,359
any meaningful way. This is how their devotion and submission

2026
01:52:33,399 --> 01:52:37,920
to this imaginary church is an exercise of humility, supposedly

2027
01:52:38,039 --> 01:52:40,199
on the one hand, right and at the same time,

2028
01:52:40,720 --> 01:52:43,680
they have the ability to disregard anything that the that

2029
01:52:43,720 --> 01:52:46,840
the present pope says that they don't like. The idealized

2030
01:52:46,840 --> 01:52:49,520
pope that exists only in their minds is the source

2031
01:52:49,560 --> 01:52:53,960
of stability, certitude, and Catholicity in their argumentation. But the

2032
01:52:54,000 --> 01:52:56,319
real actual Pope that exists in the world, on the

2033
01:52:56,359 --> 01:52:59,319
other hand, is an apostate who needs to re enter

2034
01:52:59,399 --> 01:53:03,439
into kim union. With their idealized platonic form of pope,

2035
01:53:04,000 --> 01:53:07,840
which again has no basis in metaphysical reality. So although

2036
01:53:07,880 --> 01:53:11,560
they are not set of a contest, they exactly mimic

2037
01:53:11,720 --> 01:53:14,039
and operate like the say it is if you go

2038
01:53:14,119 --> 01:53:17,760
watch my streams critique instead of a contism from the

2039
01:53:17,840 --> 01:53:21,039
John Pontrello book. This is the point that Pontrello makes

2040
01:53:21,079 --> 01:53:23,520
about the set of a contest, that they have an

2041
01:53:23,560 --> 01:53:26,560
invisible church and Charipeter that they're united with, which has

2042
01:53:26,600 --> 01:53:29,119
no correspondence or connection at all to the actual guy

2043
01:53:29,199 --> 01:53:31,479
over in Rome, which is known throughout the world as

2044
01:53:31,840 --> 01:53:35,560
and received as the Roman. See right, So the same

2045
01:53:35,600 --> 01:53:37,560
thing is true. The same thing is true with these guys,

2046
01:53:37,560 --> 01:53:39,520
and Emo goes on to say that they're basically doing

2047
01:53:39,560 --> 01:53:41,119
the same thing as the set of a contest, even

2048
01:53:41,159 --> 01:53:44,560
though it's the recognize and resist position of the absurd

2049
01:53:44,680 --> 01:53:47,319
Roman Catholics who think that sixty plus years of the

2050
01:53:47,399 --> 01:53:50,399
Roman Sea has taught error and apostasy. So they're praying

2051
01:53:50,399 --> 01:53:52,600
for the Church for the for Francis to come into

2052
01:53:52,680 --> 01:53:56,760
communion with a pope and Charipeter in their heads. In

2053
01:53:56,880 --> 01:54:01,000
their Protestant mindset, they are the price of sense. That's

2054
01:54:01,319 --> 01:54:03,560
the mind blowing a reality here.

2055
01:54:04,600 --> 01:54:07,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and I'm gonna I'm going to quote them

2056
01:54:07,720 --> 01:54:12,119
at fifty six minutes. They say the deobe that Pope

2057
01:54:12,119 --> 01:54:17,560
Francis has a massive conversion to what to to your face,

2058
01:54:17,800 --> 01:54:21,119
isn't any Catholic? Isn't it the standards? But that makes catholic?

2059
01:54:22,399 --> 01:54:24,920
You're not the standard? He is? A standard is humility?

2060
01:54:25,199 --> 01:54:27,760
Speaker 1: That's like the opposite. He spent this whole stream talking

2061
01:54:27,760 --> 01:54:30,800
about humility being submitting to the pope, and then he

2062
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:33,079
judges the Pope and says the Pope needs to repent

2063
01:54:33,159 --> 01:54:34,439
and submit to what I think?

2064
01:54:35,239 --> 01:54:41,600
Speaker 2: What about at one or nineteen, Room is failing, Room

2065
01:54:41,720 --> 01:54:45,840
is working against the truth his words. That's what he's saying.

2066
01:54:46,000 --> 01:54:48,359
Speaker 1: But you can say this, did you know how many,

2067
01:54:48,399 --> 01:54:49,960
by the way, didn't you count up how many times

2068
01:54:49,960 --> 01:54:51,039
he talked about his humility?

2069
01:54:53,800 --> 01:54:56,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so he talks about his own humility, or

2070
01:54:56,920 --> 01:55:01,079
he says that other people have a different opinion because

2071
01:55:01,119 --> 01:55:04,720
because of their pride. I've been lenient. I've conted the

2072
01:55:04,840 --> 01:55:07,840
total of twenty eight times, you know, which is when

2073
01:55:07,840 --> 01:55:09,680
you're humble, you just have to brag about being a.

2074
01:55:09,800 --> 01:55:14,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, humble, b humble. I'm so humble. Now, by the way,

2075
01:55:14,880 --> 01:55:22,000
uh Sadas reject the Conclavists, So actually the Conclavists are

2076
01:55:22,039 --> 01:55:26,079
more consistent than the Saydas. That's the result of the

2077
01:55:26,079 --> 01:55:28,479
the uh John Patrello set of a conscious stream that

2078
01:55:28,560 --> 01:55:31,279
I did. The conclusion of that is that it's actually

2079
01:55:31,279 --> 01:55:34,439
more consistent within within the framework of Vatican One to

2080
01:55:34,840 --> 01:55:37,920
elect another pope, which technically can't happen in Canon Wall

2081
01:55:37,960 --> 01:55:44,760
because only the Roman Curia can elect the pope. But regardless,

2082
01:55:45,119 --> 01:55:48,159
the Conclavists at least understand that you can't have a

2083
01:55:48,199 --> 01:55:51,279
complete defection of the Roman See. That's that's that totally

2084
01:55:51,479 --> 01:55:55,439
denies Vatican One. So technically speaking, Email, I appreciate that

2085
01:55:55,479 --> 01:55:59,079
super chat. But technically speaking, the Satas don't reject, don't

2086
01:55:59,079 --> 01:56:00,960
accept Pope Michael, but they would actually be a little

2087
01:56:00,960 --> 01:56:03,439
more consistent if they did. But then you get into

2088
01:56:03,439 --> 01:56:06,119
the problem of which of the trailer park popes are

2089
01:56:06,119 --> 01:56:09,840
you going to accept? All right, well, so let's.

2090
01:56:09,520 --> 01:56:13,840
Speaker 2: See, moving on, I've got a great point. At fifty

2091
01:56:13,920 --> 01:56:18,279
seven minutes, he starts saying that, oh, you know, we

2092
01:56:18,439 --> 01:56:22,119
need we need consoles. With the consoles it needed to

2093
01:56:22,159 --> 01:56:24,439
be assembled, and before that we had no idea of

2094
01:56:24,520 --> 01:56:28,159
this existed. We do, and it brings up another argument

2095
01:56:28,199 --> 01:56:30,960
that just destroys the papacy is Acts fifteen. He says,

2096
01:56:31,319 --> 01:56:33,880
look in X fifteen. Yeah, we know X fifteen because

2097
01:56:33,920 --> 01:56:38,399
you know there very consols before even the before the

2098
01:56:38,439 --> 01:56:42,520
emperor stepped in to make the console ecumenical, which meant imperial.

2099
01:56:44,119 --> 01:56:46,920
And look at Acts fifteen again he quotes the councils.

2100
01:56:47,039 --> 01:56:50,840
You know, that's biblical that destroy this position. Acts in

2101
01:56:50,960 --> 01:56:52,760
Acts fifteen. You know you should read it. It's a

2102
01:56:52,800 --> 01:56:57,359
short chapter. It's probably the most relevant chapter in terms

2103
01:56:57,359 --> 01:57:02,119
of ecclesiology in the New Testament. In Acts fifteen, peer

2104
01:57:02,279 --> 01:57:06,520
is here. Peter is not leading, right, you have Saint James.

2105
01:57:06,640 --> 01:57:09,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have to go crazy mental gymnastics to try

2106
01:57:09,720 --> 01:57:10,479
to fit that into that.

2107
01:57:12,359 --> 01:57:15,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna Saint James is actually leading the council.

2108
01:57:15,680 --> 01:57:19,680
Saint James is a priest, so is the levi. Priest

2109
01:57:19,800 --> 01:57:21,680
is the one who you know, also has the authority

2110
01:57:22,279 --> 01:57:25,479
also in the eyes of the people, to lead this council.

2111
01:57:26,359 --> 01:57:28,720
He says that Saint James says that I represent Donland

2112
01:57:28,760 --> 01:57:33,279
is the apostle, but he represents the the presbyters, the

2113
01:57:33,399 --> 01:57:38,640
eldest of Israel. So in Act fifteen, ultimately, at some

2114
01:57:38,760 --> 01:57:41,520
point Peter talks with authority, because Peter has some authority

2115
01:57:41,560 --> 01:57:44,439
of the church. Nobody denies this, you know, even even

2116
01:57:44,640 --> 01:57:47,680
Central Christostom Will says that they were They were Cory

2117
01:57:47,760 --> 01:57:51,920
fay A, you know, prural people that had authority, that

2118
01:57:52,039 --> 01:58:00,640
included James, James, Peter, and and John. The a confusion

2119
01:58:00,800 --> 01:58:03,239
to be between which Peter it is, between which James

2120
01:58:03,319 --> 01:58:04,720
it is. We're going to cover that in a moment.

2121
01:58:04,760 --> 01:58:07,720
But in Act fifteen, ultimately Peter speaks. But it is

2122
01:58:07,960 --> 01:58:11,640
James who has listened to Peter now and it is

2123
01:58:11,840 --> 01:58:16,000
James declaration that is word for word the apostolic brief.

2124
01:58:16,399 --> 01:58:19,239
If Peter was a perfect supreme authority, why doesn't it

2125
01:58:19,479 --> 01:58:22,199
why doesn't do this? And I'm going to quote Saint

2126
01:58:22,239 --> 01:58:34,199
John Chrysostom on this part, which said, no words speaks

2127
01:58:34,359 --> 01:58:38,279
John here, no words of the other apostles. There the

2128
01:58:38,439 --> 01:58:43,119
piece for James was invested with the chief rule. And

2129
01:58:43,319 --> 01:58:47,199
think it no ship. So yes, here here you have

2130
01:58:47,399 --> 01:58:50,479
you have James, like Peter in did spoke more strongly,

2131
01:58:50,560 --> 01:58:53,279
but James here more mildly. For this it behooves one

2132
01:58:53,359 --> 01:58:55,399
is the high authority to leave what is unpleasant for

2133
01:58:55,479 --> 01:58:57,640
others to say, well, where he himself appears in the

2134
01:58:57,720 --> 01:59:02,399
mild part. Okay, I don't really know you can go

2135
01:59:02,479 --> 01:59:02,760
about this.

2136
01:59:02,840 --> 01:59:03,319
Speaker 1: I don't really know.

2137
01:59:03,439 --> 01:59:08,399
Speaker 2: Act fifteen is there for showing that the papers is true.

2138
01:59:09,039 --> 01:59:11,239
We even have, you know, historical accounts from Usabis of

2139
01:59:11,279 --> 01:59:15,560
cs Area saying that James was especially prominent. These James,

2140
01:59:15,560 --> 01:59:17,840
whom the early Christian surnames the Righteous because of his

2141
01:59:18,039 --> 01:59:20,960
outstanding virtue, was the first, as a record tell us,

2142
01:59:21,079 --> 01:59:25,159
to be elected to the episcopal throne of the Jerusalem Church.

2143
01:59:25,840 --> 01:59:32,960
Clement you know, was pope. Outlines Oatlands in book six

2144
01:59:33,079 --> 01:59:35,640
put this Peter, James and John after the ascension of

2145
01:59:35,640 --> 01:59:38,319
the Savior, he dot claim eminence because the Savior had

2146
01:59:38,399 --> 01:59:42,960
especially honored them, but chose James the Righteous as a

2147
01:59:43,119 --> 01:59:45,720
Bishop of Jerusalem. So again there is a debate, you

2148
01:59:45,760 --> 01:59:49,119
know which James. Especially in Rome, they start says that

2149
01:59:49,199 --> 01:59:52,600
you know, these James is a lesser you have, you

2150
01:59:52,680 --> 01:59:56,600
have another James. Anywhere tradition remembers James as a priest.

2151
01:59:57,239 --> 02:00:01,520
Tradition remembers James especially in especially important and we even

2152
02:00:01,560 --> 02:00:08,079
have traditional texts that mentioned that the priesthood came came

2153
02:00:08,119 --> 02:00:12,199
to the Apostle through James, because James, James was by Christ.

2154
02:00:12,279 --> 02:00:14,840
He was you know, the half brother of Christ through

2155
02:00:18,000 --> 02:00:22,079
through through Joseph. So you know Joseph being in this

2156
02:00:22,359 --> 02:00:25,520
sad little nine it was especially important. And we need

2157
02:00:25,600 --> 02:00:27,960
to stress this and something that's great. As James destroyed

2158
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:30,960
all the heiresses, Saint James, brother of brother of God,

2159
02:00:31,720 --> 02:00:35,560
destroys all the heresies Acts fifteen. He destroys, you know,

2160
02:00:37,199 --> 02:00:42,479
ultimate supremacy of Rome in his epistle, destroys brother Stantism,

2161
02:00:42,800 --> 02:00:45,239
and he also destroys the claims of you know, Judaism

2162
02:00:45,319 --> 02:00:47,760
and Islam. That we we actually lost the Covenant. No

2163
02:00:47,920 --> 02:00:50,960
James is a hint that that propagates the Covenant to

2164
02:00:51,239 --> 02:00:55,159
the nuture. Are recommend reading the books by Simon Claude Mimoni,

2165
02:00:55,199 --> 02:00:58,960
who was Jewish himself and a great historian, and talks

2166
02:00:58,960 --> 02:01:03,640
about this that James, well, a very important figure for

2167
02:01:03,760 --> 02:01:07,279
the early Church is that he's the one who brought

2168
02:01:07,920 --> 02:01:12,399
bought all these things. So yes, very important, very stupid

2169
02:01:12,479 --> 02:01:15,000
of them to bring X fifteen. You know, probably things

2170
02:01:15,039 --> 02:01:18,920
that reach the Bible as a prostant thing, because if

2171
02:01:18,960 --> 02:01:21,520
you read X fifteen you'll see that. I want to

2172
02:01:21,520 --> 02:01:22,119
stress too.

2173
02:01:22,279 --> 02:01:26,560
Speaker 1: There's point that you're making about Basil about James actually

2174
02:01:26,640 --> 02:01:30,479
continues on in terms of the attitude of the greatest

2175
02:01:30,520 --> 02:01:33,359
of the some of the greatest of the Eastern fathers,

2176
02:01:33,439 --> 02:01:37,479
like Saint Basil. Right when Basil writes in letter sixty

2177
02:01:37,560 --> 02:01:40,159
six to the to Saint Anthonasius, he writes a letter

2178
02:01:40,199 --> 02:01:43,520
and he says, I have appealed to the bishops of

2179
02:01:43,640 --> 02:01:46,800
the West for help in this matter and regarding an

2180
02:01:46,960 --> 02:01:51,600
Aryan in his diocese. That excuse me at Antioch. Now,

2181
02:01:51,640 --> 02:01:53,239
by the way, why is the appeal to the bishops?

2182
02:01:53,359 --> 02:01:55,520
What is you just ask the Pope, the bishop of

2183
02:01:55,560 --> 02:01:57,840
the West. Now he appeals to the bishops of the West,

2184
02:01:57,920 --> 02:01:59,680
he says, And then he goes on to say that

2185
02:01:59,760 --> 02:02:03,159
we know that Antioch can function like the head of

2186
02:02:03,239 --> 02:02:06,039
a body, right, he says. The heretics are trying to

2187
02:02:06,119 --> 02:02:09,640
sunder it to it, render it asunder, he says. But

2188
02:02:09,720 --> 02:02:12,800
if you Athanasius, go and fix the problems in Antioch,

2189
02:02:13,479 --> 02:02:17,399
he says, then an Antioch like a head, will heal

2190
02:02:17,479 --> 02:02:21,760
the whole body. Now imagine that if I were to

2191
02:02:21,840 --> 02:02:23,680
read that, they would say that that's talking about the

2192
02:02:23,720 --> 02:02:25,680
Bishop of Rome the head of the whole body, and

2193
02:02:25,760 --> 02:02:28,800
he's talking about the church in Antioch, right, and he

2194
02:02:28,880 --> 02:02:31,760
says that the church in Antioch stands as the head,

2195
02:02:31,880 --> 02:02:33,680
so to speak, of the whole body of the church,

2196
02:02:33,840 --> 02:02:37,600
and all else are mere disjointed members. Now it is

2197
02:02:37,680 --> 02:02:40,039
the prayer of the whole East that this be fixed.

2198
02:02:40,399 --> 02:02:43,399
And he says, I've asked Rome for help. In the

2199
02:02:43,479 --> 02:02:46,520
next letter, so this issue continues, So he writes a

2200
02:02:46,600 --> 02:02:49,479
letter next to Malicius of Antioch, who's the head there

2201
02:02:49,760 --> 02:02:52,960
right now, because the Roman costs well. But he's not

2202
02:02:53,159 --> 02:02:55,840
calling the bishop of Antioch the head of all the

2203
02:02:55,920 --> 02:03:00,399
churches exactly right. These kinds of phraseologies are used in

2204
02:03:00,439 --> 02:03:02,880
the Church Fathers, and they're lifted out of that context

2205
02:03:02,960 --> 02:03:06,560
and used to try to prove the universal supremacy. But

2206
02:03:06,640 --> 02:03:09,560
that same language is used of the guy who's the

2207
02:03:09,880 --> 02:03:12,119
lawful bishop of Antioch. He then writes the next letter

2208
02:03:12,199 --> 02:03:17,479
to Athanasius, letter sixty nine, and he says, I have

2209
02:03:17,840 --> 02:03:21,159
again asked Rome for help. He says that, but they

2210
02:03:21,279 --> 02:03:24,399
have failed to help us because they are men ignorant

2211
02:03:24,560 --> 02:03:29,159
of the faith. So Rome failed to condemn because they're

2212
02:03:29,239 --> 02:03:32,159
ignorant and silly. He says, And then he goes on

2213
02:03:32,279 --> 02:03:34,000
in the next and he writes a letter to Pope

2214
02:03:34,039 --> 02:03:38,439
Saint Demasis, and he doesn't say anything about Pope Damasis

2215
02:03:38,560 --> 02:03:42,439
being like, you know, the universal greatest head of all

2216
02:03:42,600 --> 02:03:44,560
churches in the world. He just says, will you please

2217
02:03:44,640 --> 02:03:48,319
help us? We need help in the East. And there's

2218
02:03:48,439 --> 02:03:51,880
nothing about any magical petrine power here when he writes

2219
02:03:51,920 --> 02:03:59,359
to demasists Pope Demasis. So then here's the killer is

2220
02:03:59,399 --> 02:04:04,399
that Later on when he writes another letter to another bishop,

2221
02:04:04,479 --> 02:04:07,840
to Eusebius of Samisada. This is a letter two hundred

2222
02:04:07,840 --> 02:04:12,000
and thirty nine, he says that no help is going

2223
02:04:12,079 --> 02:04:14,399
to come to us from Rome. He says, because there

2224
02:04:14,399 --> 02:04:16,199
are a bunch of men ignorant in the faith and

2225
02:04:16,279 --> 02:04:19,960
they've actually strengthened the cause of heresy. And he says,

2226
02:04:20,039 --> 02:04:28,600
because I wrote to their corfeus, their corfeus, the patriarch

2227
02:04:28,760 --> 02:04:34,039
of Rome, the corfeus of the western jurisdictions. He doesn't

2228
02:04:34,079 --> 02:04:39,479
say our mouthpiece there, corfeus. So what I'm getting at

2229
02:04:39,520 --> 02:04:45,159
is that when you read through these letters, the actual practice, language, terminology,

2230
02:04:45,319 --> 02:04:48,680
and usage of Saint Basil is nothing like Vatican One.

2231
02:04:49,439 --> 02:04:51,880
The Roman Catholics come back and revise all this and

2232
02:04:52,000 --> 02:04:54,960
reinterpret it and say, oh, but it's actually is Vatican

2233
02:04:55,039 --> 02:04:58,039
One because it's an argument from silence. And he's appealing

2234
02:04:58,119 --> 02:05:00,520
to the he's appealing to all the bishops. He appeals

2235
02:05:00,520 --> 02:05:03,279
to Athenasius. He says, Athenacious, I know that you can

2236
02:05:03,359 --> 02:05:06,640
fix the problems in Antioch. Right, all there's not why

2237
02:05:06,720 --> 02:05:08,199
is he doing that? Like all he has to do

2238
02:05:08,439 --> 02:05:12,600
is just say, Damass fix all the problems. And then

2239
02:05:12,640 --> 02:05:14,760
he turns around and says that Damases was the voice

2240
02:05:14,920 --> 02:05:19,039
the core fees mouthpiece of the Latins. He says, but

2241
02:05:19,119 --> 02:05:21,359
he was useless. He was useless in this.

2242
02:05:24,319 --> 02:05:27,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, which you know we're going to talk about church

2243
02:05:27,279 --> 02:05:30,960
fathers now because he said old church fathers. He approves

2244
02:05:31,000 --> 02:05:34,239
the papacy. What he doesn't understand, you know, and you've

2245
02:05:34,319 --> 02:05:37,359
read you all said you cannot just cherry picture fathers, right,

2246
02:05:39,600 --> 02:05:41,479
it's really hard to read the whole church father But

2247
02:05:41,560 --> 02:05:44,760
what they should understand is that if you look at

2248
02:05:44,840 --> 02:05:47,800
all letters between between you know, people of the church

2249
02:05:47,800 --> 02:05:52,880
are structured. So letters of the fathers it always starts

2250
02:05:52,920 --> 02:05:56,159
with an assessment of the person they're talking to, and

2251
02:05:56,279 --> 02:05:59,399
it starts by you know, giving great praise. And for

2252
02:05:59,439 --> 02:06:03,760
example on his website is actually you had the same

2253
02:06:03,840 --> 02:06:05,840
Theodore of the Studio, and we say we said a

2254
02:06:05,880 --> 02:06:09,199
lot of great things about about about Rome. Yes, because

2255
02:06:09,199 --> 02:06:11,239
when Rome is Orthodox, they have no problem giving it

2256
02:06:11,479 --> 02:06:14,399
all the praise. It's fine. But when it is not,

2257
02:06:14,640 --> 02:06:17,720
we don't. And for example, by taking Theodore of the Studio,

2258
02:06:18,079 --> 02:06:21,159
he wrote letters to the patriarch of Constantinople saying that

2259
02:06:21,319 --> 02:06:22,359
he's the head of the church.

2260
02:06:22,680 --> 02:06:26,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, what if this biology the site with Basil Antioch

2261
02:06:26,279 --> 02:06:26,880
head of the church.

2262
02:06:28,039 --> 02:06:31,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the quote mining fathers is they're using praise

2263
02:06:31,880 --> 02:06:33,439
for a lot of things. First of all, when they'm

2264
02:06:33,479 --> 02:06:36,239
in Peter at the time, I mean the the episcope

2265
02:06:36,560 --> 02:06:40,039
as a whole. We talked about this quite a while,

2266
02:06:40,279 --> 02:06:42,960
but you cannot just chair pick this. This is why

2267
02:06:43,039 --> 02:06:45,760
I hate, you know, going into quote minds, the quote

2268
02:06:45,800 --> 02:06:47,319
that they that they use, you know often you know

2269
02:06:47,319 --> 02:06:51,520
a doctor themselves. I always see them citing secondhand works.

2270
02:06:51,880 --> 02:06:55,319
I never see them citing the Patrologya Latina, Patrologia Greca.

2271
02:06:55,399 --> 02:06:57,720
Because if you go into these books and we've seen

2272
02:06:57,760 --> 02:07:01,239
people you know, coming from the twild world. A great

2273
02:07:01,279 --> 02:07:05,319
friend and manted to one extent, Jehan MacLean, he he

2274
02:07:05,399 --> 02:07:07,840
went to the PG. It made it made him aposthetize,

2275
02:07:07,960 --> 02:07:11,960
because it's it's filled with flalsification. It's filled with you know,

2276
02:07:12,039 --> 02:07:15,960
even sometimes admission of of oh we have different manuscripts,

2277
02:07:16,039 --> 02:07:18,079
Oh we with these stuff that says the orthodox think,

2278
02:07:18,279 --> 02:07:20,720
oh there is this alternate version of this of this

2279
02:07:20,880 --> 02:07:25,039
church father. Uh, it's it's it's filled with errors. If

2280
02:07:25,079 --> 02:07:27,640
you read Dollinger. Dollinger actually dug into it, and he

2281
02:07:27,720 --> 02:07:29,319
has a he has a book and the papers is

2282
02:07:29,359 --> 02:07:33,640
that just six hundred pages of showing interpolation in this

2283
02:07:33,720 --> 02:07:36,439
book he said. He says that at times you will

2284
02:07:36,479 --> 02:07:40,239
have ten layers of clalsification. So again a church fathers

2285
02:07:40,279 --> 02:07:43,760
and court. Mind, it's it's a bit difficult to you

2286
02:07:43,920 --> 02:07:48,359
to use as is. If you if you, if you

2287
02:07:48,520 --> 02:07:51,520
use the same metrics, you will see that just random

2288
02:07:51,600 --> 02:07:54,039
bishops at the head of the church. Random bishops are

2289
02:07:54,119 --> 02:07:57,840
described as being the pillar of the faith. You even yeah,

2290
02:07:58,479 --> 02:08:01,560
random bishops of priests as uh. You know, he says

2291
02:08:01,560 --> 02:08:03,640
that it is great to be in communion with you.

2292
02:08:03,800 --> 02:08:06,279
You see it from all the fathers. So claiming the

2293
02:08:06,359 --> 02:08:08,600
Father proved the papacy because they says, the purpose doing

2294
02:08:08,640 --> 02:08:12,359
great when he's doing great things, you know, orthodox things.

2295
02:08:13,800 --> 02:08:16,000
Speaker 1: Not let's move the csterl papism if you can, if

2296
02:08:16,000 --> 02:08:16,600
you got more on that.

2297
02:08:20,319 --> 02:08:23,199
Speaker 2: I think it's still something about about church as Oh yeah,

2298
02:08:24,640 --> 02:08:27,239
but churches. I just want to address something he claims,

2299
02:08:27,239 --> 02:08:32,479
you know, historical fact proves the papacy. Really if you like,

2300
02:08:32,600 --> 02:08:35,720
he quotes Pop Victor, he says that, you know, he

2301
02:08:35,720 --> 02:08:40,880
says that Pop Victor, for example, is is saying, I mean,

2302
02:08:41,000 --> 02:08:44,640
the example of Pop Victor and the controversy of Pasha

2303
02:08:44,960 --> 02:08:48,600
proofs proofs pacy. I'm just going to read eu Zibius,

2304
02:08:48,640 --> 02:08:51,520
and we got to see that it doesn't match anything. Victor,

2305
02:08:51,560 --> 02:08:53,920
who presided of his church at Rome, you know, not

2306
02:08:54,039 --> 02:08:57,479
the entire church immediately attempted to cut off from the communion,

2307
02:08:58,079 --> 02:09:02,520
from the community the parishes of all Asia. Keyword attempted.

2308
02:09:03,479 --> 02:09:06,880
You know, he cannot have it doesn't it doesn't have

2309
02:09:07,000 --> 02:09:10,199
this power. Also, you know the fact that he excommunicates

2310
02:09:10,239 --> 02:09:13,119
someone that he tries to exommunicate someone that outside this jurtyisdiction.

2311
02:09:13,840 --> 02:09:16,119
Not only the popes did this one day so heresy

2312
02:09:16,199 --> 02:09:22,520
or proceed heresy, they would do this. So the parishes

2313
02:09:22,560 --> 02:09:26,119
of early Asia, the churches that agreed with them as heterodox.

2314
02:09:26,920 --> 02:09:29,239
So you know that, you know, saying that not orthodox

2315
02:09:29,279 --> 02:09:33,359
would mean the wrong dogma, So that would make this excommunication,

2316
02:09:33,479 --> 02:09:37,760
you know, ipso factor and infallible. And he wrote letters

2317
02:09:37,800 --> 02:09:42,000
and declared all the present the Holy excommunity wholly excommunicate,

2318
02:09:42,520 --> 02:09:44,640
which means that, you know, if he really had this supremacy,

2319
02:09:44,840 --> 02:09:49,039
they would have been excommunicated for real. But this did

2320
02:09:49,119 --> 02:09:51,760
not please all the bishops, and they bethought him to

2321
02:09:51,840 --> 02:09:55,760
consider the things of peace, enable, unity, and love. So

2322
02:09:55,840 --> 02:09:59,600
here you have the pop going ast unity. Apparently they

2323
02:10:00,079 --> 02:10:02,880
they gloated about the propab exist point just after saying

2324
02:10:02,920 --> 02:10:08,039
that every sort of schism is bad. Words of theirs

2325
02:10:08,079 --> 02:10:12,920
are extent sharply rebuking Victor. Among them was Iranus, who

2326
02:10:13,159 --> 02:10:15,880
sending letters in the name of the bresen in Gold

2327
02:10:15,920 --> 02:10:18,319
over whom he presided. So you have Victor presiding over

2328
02:10:18,600 --> 02:10:21,279
bresen in Gold, which is in the Roman jurisdiction. Why

2329
02:10:21,359 --> 02:10:25,279
isn't the pope presiding over God himself?

2330
02:10:26,000 --> 02:10:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do we just say with Basil? Basil Rif's

2331
02:10:28,840 --> 02:10:33,359
letters appealing to Athanasius, to Malicius in Antioch and he

2332
02:10:33,439 --> 02:10:36,520
writes a letter to Damasis and the bishops in the West.

2333
02:10:37,039 --> 02:10:40,199
He's tried to secure condemnation from all these people. All

2334
02:10:40,279 --> 02:10:42,560
he had to do if Vatican Warnastery is get the

2335
02:10:42,600 --> 02:10:44,560
Pope to just wave his hand.

2336
02:10:46,000 --> 02:10:49,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, so maintain that the mystery of the resurrection of

2337
02:10:49,680 --> 02:10:51,600
the Law should be observed only in the Law's day.

2338
02:10:51,800 --> 02:10:55,159
He fittingly admonishes Victor that he should not cut off

2339
02:10:55,239 --> 02:10:57,960
the old churches of God, which observes the tradition of

2340
02:10:58,760 --> 02:11:02,079
an ancient custom. And what's great about this is that,

2341
02:11:02,239 --> 02:11:03,840
you know, if if there was really, you know, this

2342
02:11:03,960 --> 02:11:07,199
papal supremacy was even this paper infallibility, nobody would have,

2343
02:11:07,279 --> 02:11:09,319
you know, complained with it. People are like, oh, you know,

2344
02:11:09,359 --> 02:11:12,560
he's perk made a decision, this arretic, let's follow this.

2345
02:11:13,039 --> 02:11:15,560
The problem is the matter was only resolved as the

2346
02:11:15,600 --> 02:11:18,520
first secondical console, so he did not have the authority himself.

2347
02:11:18,600 --> 02:11:24,000
He tried it got rebuked. If this happens today, a

2348
02:11:24,039 --> 02:11:26,359
guy who rebukes the Purple will be excommunicated, Like, you know,

2349
02:11:26,840 --> 02:11:31,039
even Cardinal Sarah, you know, the just based black cardinal,

2350
02:11:31,760 --> 02:11:36,119
he would say that you have to follow Francis. It

2351
02:11:36,159 --> 02:11:38,720
doesn't it doesn't appartly doesn't personally agree with Francis, but

2352
02:11:38,840 --> 02:11:43,079
it doesn't you know, rebuking Yeah someone as I do.

2353
02:11:43,840 --> 02:11:45,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to stress this. So can we move

2354
02:11:46,000 --> 02:11:47,840
to the cesserl papism or do you have any more

2355
02:11:47,880 --> 02:11:49,960
on that? I mean, we can do streams in the

2356
02:11:50,039 --> 02:11:52,720
next and upcoming future. In the near future, will will

2357
02:11:52,760 --> 02:11:56,359
address all the papal claims from the church fathers individual

2358
02:11:56,439 --> 02:11:59,279
and in fact, if you have I mean, you're welcome

2359
02:11:59,319 --> 02:12:04,840
to throw more in a you want. But yeah, Petris

2360
02:12:04,960 --> 02:12:06,960
just responded to Ibarra. By the way, I'll put that

2361
02:12:07,000 --> 02:12:08,800
at Lincoln again in the chat ef everybody wants to

2362
02:12:08,880 --> 02:12:12,720
read on say Maximus a confessor, how Ibara attempted to

2363
02:12:13,119 --> 02:12:17,720
use this to prove Vatican one in in Maximus, So

2364
02:12:17,840 --> 02:12:18,279
there is.

2365
02:12:18,399 --> 02:12:21,000
Speaker 2: Will be Let you be purchased. This is I'll just

2366
02:12:21,560 --> 02:12:24,960
quickly state about you know, historical council again, the other

2367
02:12:25,079 --> 02:12:29,039
pope who made an eretical console, you know, Pop Liberius,

2368
02:12:29,079 --> 02:12:32,079
who was rebuilt by the Church, who promoted air in creeds.

2369
02:12:32,319 --> 02:12:34,720
Doesn't you know, isn't it? You don't have to follow

2370
02:12:34,800 --> 02:12:38,920
this always they say we can't have any more any

2371
02:12:39,000 --> 02:12:42,479
more consuls. You know, we actually we actually have ec

2372
02:12:42,560 --> 02:12:46,119
Medical Council. We use that the eighth Ecmmdical Counsole that

2373
02:12:46,319 --> 02:12:48,920
was the fourteen Synod, that was approved by Pope John

2374
02:12:49,000 --> 02:12:52,680
the eighth, which means that it also it's lially destroys

2375
02:12:52,680 --> 02:12:54,680
this claim that we have a disagreement of as a philoquy.

2376
02:12:54,760 --> 02:12:56,600
We do not have a disagreement of as the philoquy

2377
02:12:57,760 --> 02:13:01,680
because we have this eighth counsul the ninth is fully

2378
02:13:02,000 --> 02:13:05,039
is fully in effect. We don't have different disagreements over

2379
02:13:05,479 --> 02:13:08,239
the energies. We seeing that we be seeing Palamas, we

2380
02:13:08,399 --> 02:13:09,439
see yeah, that.

2381
02:13:09,479 --> 02:13:11,800
Speaker 1: We don't even know if the energy doctrine is true.

2382
02:13:12,319 --> 02:13:14,279
What are you talking about. I've never heard an Orthodox

2383
02:13:14,359 --> 02:13:17,079
the Elogian deny the doctrine of uncreated energies. It's in

2384
02:13:17,119 --> 02:13:20,560
our liturgy. Everybody holds to that I know of holds

2385
02:13:20,600 --> 02:13:23,760
to the cinema black Renee and the uncreated energies. I've

2386
02:13:23,800 --> 02:13:25,760
never it's in the liturgy. I've never heard anybody not

2387
02:13:25,880 --> 02:13:28,960
say this. Now, David Bentley Hart, we don't even know

2388
02:13:29,000 --> 02:13:30,880
if we don't even know if David Bentley Hart attends

2389
02:13:30,920 --> 02:13:34,359
a church, right, he just says he's Orthodox and says

2390
02:13:34,399 --> 02:13:38,560
everything anti Orthodox rejectsment ecumenical councils that condemn origin. I mean,

2391
02:13:38,600 --> 02:13:42,199
you have an entire book Christ and Byzantium about Blackernee,

2392
02:13:42,479 --> 02:13:44,920
which contains all the documents of Blackername, by the way,

2393
02:13:44,960 --> 02:13:48,760
great book by Papadoccus, and he says, we don't even

2394
02:13:48,800 --> 02:13:50,680
know if the essence energy doctrine is true. What a

2395
02:13:50,720 --> 02:13:54,239
bunch of nonsense. There's not a single Orthodox theologian in

2396
02:13:54,479 --> 02:13:57,199
the twentieth century. That and the ones that are becoming saints,

2397
02:13:57,439 --> 02:14:01,279
like Saint Justin Popovich. Right. You can read the famous

2398
02:14:01,319 --> 02:14:07,399
Georgia Manzides has a whole book on uh Palamas. You

2399
02:14:07,479 --> 02:14:10,760
can read Father Staniloy. His whole systematic theology is premised

2400
02:14:10,800 --> 02:14:13,560
on the Essen senterdu distinction. You can read Father Florowsky,

2401
02:14:13,680 --> 02:14:15,960
powerful proponent of the Essen Center distinction. You could read

2402
02:14:16,439 --> 02:14:20,039
Vladimir Lowsky. All of the greatest theologians who they didn't

2403
02:14:20,680 --> 02:14:24,000
they didn't want Site, and they didn't want Site. A

2404
02:14:24,079 --> 02:14:28,239
great theologian they cited who where bolgacaw like and Salt

2405
02:14:28,439 --> 02:14:29,119
like weirdos?

2406
02:14:29,520 --> 02:14:33,079
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, which which is you know, disingenuous. We're not

2407
02:14:33,159 --> 02:14:36,520
attacking you know, Catholic morals and dogmat by by quitting,

2408
02:14:36,600 --> 02:14:38,640
you know, specifically James Martin.

2409
02:14:38,680 --> 02:14:40,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well, let's just site James Martin said that.

2410
02:14:40,640 --> 02:14:41,439
That's all. That's all.

2411
02:14:41,560 --> 02:14:45,039
Speaker 2: Ro We're gonna talk about Roman Catholics and James Martin,

2412
02:14:45,159 --> 02:14:51,159
James Martin, but just James Martin. Yes, bog is a sociologist.

2413
02:14:52,079 --> 02:14:58,279
It's ridiculous. Yeah, I think we can. Oh no, yeah,

2414
02:14:58,479 --> 02:15:00,439
it says just that he says, you need the emperor

2415
02:15:00,479 --> 02:15:03,640
to convince the council. No, we actually do not need

2416
02:15:03,640 --> 02:15:06,000
the emperor to convince the council. We we convene the

2417
02:15:06,079 --> 02:15:09,880
Council of Jerusalem. Uh. They say, oh, but that's just receptionalism.

2418
02:15:10,199 --> 02:15:15,119
The real medwik is a great, great video, but receptionism.

2419
02:15:15,800 --> 02:15:18,359
Speaker 1: We am a cavin to teach receptionism. That's the irony here.

2420
02:15:19,600 --> 02:15:23,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, we I mean, yeah, it's being being a full receptionist.

2421
02:15:24,319 --> 02:15:27,000
He's even said they say, oh, actually they call it

2422
02:15:27,159 --> 02:15:30,640
solar scripture a plus, Church Father. But they said, oh,

2423
02:15:30,720 --> 02:15:32,319
but we have the pup. But when they don't agree

2424
02:15:32,359 --> 02:15:34,439
that the oh but we can look in tradition to

2425
02:15:34,640 --> 02:15:36,880
you what you're doing sole scripture, Church Father.

2426
02:15:38,800 --> 02:15:41,800
Speaker 1: They do solar scripture with papal writings. That's their thing.

2427
02:15:43,039 --> 02:15:47,560
Speaker 2: Yes, So yes, they teach.

2428
02:15:50,039 --> 02:15:52,680
Speaker 1: Let me pick the I like marai boss I like

2429
02:15:52,760 --> 02:15:57,039
mortalium animals, I like lamentabilising, like Penni dominici gracious, I

2430
02:15:57,279 --> 02:16:01,439
like uh humani jen humanum genes of the I don't

2431
02:16:01,600 --> 02:16:07,199
like the encyclicals after Vatican two. So pick and choose

2432
02:16:07,399 --> 02:16:11,520
the encyclicals that you want, trads, because you're just being Protestant.

2433
02:16:12,720 --> 02:16:15,399
Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, yes, of course we do not need the

2434
02:16:15,439 --> 02:16:18,119
emperor to convene. Council. Act fifteen is a great example.

2435
02:16:18,279 --> 02:16:20,960
It was not convened by Roman Empire.

2436
02:16:21,000 --> 02:16:23,920
Speaker 1: By the way, there there are councils prior to the

2437
02:16:24,439 --> 02:16:29,479
uh to Nicia, right, there is UNCAS, and there are

2438
02:16:29,600 --> 02:16:32,239
councils after that, and so look the normative. So it's

2439
02:16:32,280 --> 02:16:35,520
three hundred years of Christianity without an ecumenical council. Okay,

2440
02:16:35,639 --> 02:16:38,399
So the ecumenical councils are not the normative way that

2441
02:16:38,479 --> 02:16:41,680
the church is governed. They happen sparsely every hundred year.

2442
02:16:41,719 --> 02:16:44,799
So this is this assumption that Orthodoxy lacks ecumenical councils

2443
02:16:45,360 --> 02:16:48,239
is really really misses the point of how the church

2444
02:16:48,559 --> 02:16:53,079
is actually in praxis governed, which is so nottally so

2445
02:16:53,239 --> 02:16:56,840
every church that everybody's Orthodox, their church is part of

2446
02:16:56,879 --> 02:17:00,559
a synod of bishops, so that that's the ormative way

2447
02:17:00,639 --> 02:17:02,559
the church is governed. What do you mean, there's not

2448
02:17:02,760 --> 02:17:05,399
We don't have to have for the church to survive

2449
02:17:05,479 --> 02:17:08,559
in our cemenical Council. And even the Vatican admits that

2450
02:17:08,639 --> 02:17:12,000
the Orthodox churches have existed for the last thousand years

2451
02:17:12,600 --> 02:17:14,639
as Orthodox without the papacy.

2452
02:17:15,959 --> 02:17:18,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, that proves that we don't actually exist. Support from

2453
02:17:18,879 --> 02:17:21,719
like the document of Kurtis is great zero point sixteen,

2454
02:17:21,879 --> 02:17:24,000
this document signed by the pope. In the ways the

2455
02:17:24,040 --> 02:17:26,559
primacy of the seal Rome was understood, particularly from the

2456
02:17:26,639 --> 02:17:29,719
fourth century onwards with reference to peters Well among the apostle,

2457
02:17:30,200 --> 02:17:32,600
the primacy of the Bishop of Rome amongst the other

2458
02:17:32,680 --> 02:17:37,159
bishop was gradually interpreted as a prerogative. That was this

2459
02:17:37,319 --> 02:17:39,959
because it was successful of Peter, the first of the Apostles.

2460
02:17:40,280 --> 02:17:43,120
This understanding was not adopted in the East, which had

2461
02:17:43,120 --> 02:17:46,040
a different interpretation of scripture. And further on this point,

2462
02:17:46,360 --> 02:17:49,959
the old document of Kitty is about sinidality being very important,

2463
02:17:50,040 --> 02:17:53,120
and you know see it by themselves, by the very

2464
02:17:53,239 --> 02:17:55,959
nature refuting the ideas that you know, just in the

2465
02:17:56,000 --> 02:17:58,479
centralized authority, right, and.

2466
02:17:58,520 --> 02:17:59,920
Speaker 1: That whole stream, by the way, it was basically just

2467
02:18:00,120 --> 02:18:02,479
worship of authority and the irony here I want to

2468
02:18:02,520 --> 02:18:04,200
make a point about because a lot of people don't

2469
02:18:04,200 --> 02:18:06,000
know this, but if you read the documents of the

2470
02:18:06,079 --> 02:18:09,200
second Senator of Nicia two and seven eighty seven, he

2471
02:18:09,319 --> 02:18:12,280
made this goofy mistake of talking about how well the

2472
02:18:12,319 --> 02:18:14,840
whole church in the East is Cicero Papism, and they

2473
02:18:14,920 --> 02:18:19,399
followed emperors. And have you not read he hasn't. By

2474
02:18:19,440 --> 02:18:21,520
the way, have you not read the actual canons and

2475
02:18:22,000 --> 02:18:25,040
acts of the councils that are at least in English

2476
02:18:25,120 --> 02:18:28,239
so far, because you might be surprised to see the

2477
02:18:28,319 --> 02:18:32,680
way that your own popes and now these are our

2478
02:18:32,719 --> 02:18:35,120
poptes too, like we would agree with the Seventh Synod

2479
02:18:35,200 --> 02:18:37,479
in the posts at this time. But in your mindset

2480
02:18:37,520 --> 02:18:40,600
and his mindset, the Catholic Church is the church of

2481
02:18:40,639 --> 02:18:43,559
the first millennium. Oh guess what who do they say?

2482
02:18:44,159 --> 02:18:46,840
Are the emperor? The emperors are the God ordained emperors,

2483
02:18:47,360 --> 02:18:49,840
the God ordained emperors. That's a phrase from Nicia too.

2484
02:18:50,319 --> 02:18:52,280
That's the letter if you read, if you have the

2485
02:18:52,680 --> 02:18:55,639
chaft set, it's the letter of the Synod. There's two letters.

2486
02:18:56,200 --> 02:18:57,920
There's a letter of the Synod to the Emperor and

2487
02:18:57,959 --> 02:19:00,440
the Empress. And what do they say. They say, you

2488
02:19:00,559 --> 02:19:03,760
reign like David. They talk about theocracy, they talk about

2489
02:19:04,239 --> 02:19:08,680
them being the Orthodox imperium, and so on his own grounds,

2490
02:19:08,760 --> 02:19:12,719
his church for the first millennium admits simphonia. The very

2491
02:19:12,760 --> 02:19:15,360
thing he says is ceral papers, which is goody.

2492
02:19:16,680 --> 02:19:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. And what's great is that there will any times

2493
02:19:19,200 --> 02:19:22,600
there is an interaction between the church in the in

2494
02:19:22,680 --> 02:19:25,120
the East, in between church and state. In the East,

2495
02:19:25,159 --> 02:19:27,440
they will say it says or papies. But first of

2496
02:19:27,479 --> 02:19:30,200
all you're excommunicating, you know, the entire Churchdren's business, the

2497
02:19:30,200 --> 02:19:35,520
empire which you claim you you're united too. And also

2498
02:19:36,120 --> 02:19:38,479
it happens in the west. You know, you you claim

2499
02:19:38,520 --> 02:19:42,120
at some point, doing your Prosperity Gospels, that you converted

2500
02:19:42,159 --> 02:19:45,040
the Barbarians the Franks. When they were converted, the first

2501
02:19:45,079 --> 02:19:48,280
thing they put into place was caesaral papies, and they

2502
02:19:48,319 --> 02:19:51,479
put symphonia into place. Look at Saint Gregory of Tours,

2503
02:19:51,520 --> 02:19:53,520
he rights the history of the Franks, the merrior of Angians,

2504
02:19:53,799 --> 02:19:55,760
the merror of Aingians. You know, not only were Orthodox

2505
02:19:55,799 --> 02:19:58,440
because by then Gium recognize them of Orthodox. The emperor

2506
02:19:58,479 --> 02:20:01,920
who was Orthodox, send them, you know, consulate titles, all

2507
02:20:02,000 --> 02:20:06,920
kinds of glory. But they had orthodox eclesiology. And if

2508
02:20:06,959 --> 02:20:09,959
you look at the history the Franks. In History of

2509
02:20:10,000 --> 02:20:13,040
the Franks, they are talking about first of all rights

2510
02:20:13,040 --> 02:20:15,239
that they don't have any they don't have anymore, you know.

2511
02:20:15,840 --> 02:20:20,959
But also the fact that there was this link. You know,

2512
02:20:21,399 --> 02:20:23,879
the clergy was sort of an administrative class. There was

2513
02:20:24,360 --> 02:20:29,360
a very a very strong link throughout French history active

2514
02:20:29,399 --> 02:20:32,799
you will see the calicanism between between the clergy and

2515
02:20:32,959 --> 02:20:33,680
between the.

2516
02:20:36,040 --> 02:20:36,520
Speaker 1: The state.

2517
02:20:37,239 --> 02:20:39,360
Speaker 2: The first consul that the Franks made so so clovi

2518
02:20:39,479 --> 02:20:42,040
Is converted at the at the end of the four hundreds.

2519
02:20:42,479 --> 02:20:46,000
In in five to eleven, they already made a council

2520
02:20:46,719 --> 02:20:49,600
that state relevant that stated that you cannot enter the

2521
02:20:49,639 --> 02:20:52,600
clergy unless you have the unless the king is with you.

2522
02:20:52,959 --> 02:20:56,200
So can you really claim you converted friends, No, because

2523
02:20:56,239 --> 02:20:59,479
they didn't convert to Papism. They converted to Orthodox symphonia.

2524
02:20:59,639 --> 02:21:03,200
That's the very beginning of the conversion. Is the real conversion,

2525
02:21:03,239 --> 02:21:06,600
the real conversion of the West after the Barbarian invasions.

2526
02:21:07,040 --> 02:21:10,280
You can see throughout papal history. You can see, you know,

2527
02:21:10,680 --> 02:21:15,879
for example, Charlemagne trying to challenge things Charlemagne putting So

2528
02:21:16,079 --> 02:21:19,319
this is not like I'm not saying that Charlemagne was Orthodox.

2529
02:21:19,559 --> 02:21:22,799
I'm saying the merivingion, we're Orthodox, we have a good claim.

2530
02:21:22,840 --> 02:21:26,079
So this Charlemagne started to introduce heresy. Charlemaine wanted to

2531
02:21:26,120 --> 02:21:29,159
create a parallel authority. But peppin.

2532
02:21:31,399 --> 02:21:33,959
Speaker 1: Another and another rebuttal to this nonsense.

2533
02:21:34,760 --> 02:21:36,959
Speaker 2: The even acknologies, even a clergy when say, oh, there's

2534
02:21:37,000 --> 02:21:41,959
the institution institution crisis. You know, yes, because because at

2535
02:21:42,000 --> 02:21:45,959
some point the emperor was putting out, like choosing the pope.

2536
02:21:46,079 --> 02:21:48,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, the pope is the office of the papes are

2537
02:21:48,200 --> 02:21:51,920
being worn out to these nobility. Yeah, don't even know.

2538
02:21:53,319 --> 02:21:56,399
Speaker 2: Yeah you have. Like for example, Charlemagne wanted to to

2539
02:21:56,520 --> 02:21:58,479
bring the felocal. He tried to make his own parallel

2540
02:21:58,520 --> 02:22:02,120
authority of the church. Probably or the further rebuked him,

2541
02:22:02,200 --> 02:22:04,600
said no, you made counter Counsul wrote that you cannot

2542
02:22:04,680 --> 02:22:08,479
change the creed, you know, And ultimately it's a descendant

2543
02:22:08,520 --> 02:22:12,319
of charleman Or the third, the first, who wants to

2544
02:22:12,399 --> 02:22:15,799
recreate the empire of Charlemagne. That in states the Philoquo

2545
02:22:15,840 --> 02:22:19,200
in Rome by you know, coming to Italy saying, oh no,

2546
02:22:19,319 --> 02:22:22,600
it's Holy One umpire removing the pope, putting out his

2547
02:22:23,000 --> 02:22:26,040
own preferred pope and say, noticing the philoquay, that's the

2548
02:22:26,040 --> 02:22:30,360
philoque come into came into place. So you know, it's

2549
02:22:31,520 --> 02:22:32,719
really if you look at the old history of the

2550
02:22:32,799 --> 02:22:37,319
church even later, you know, the Gallican Church, it didn't

2551
02:22:37,360 --> 02:22:39,280
really answer to Rome. If if you look at it,

2552
02:22:39,799 --> 02:22:41,879
there was it was a Gallican priest and he said,

2553
02:22:42,159 --> 02:22:45,200
is this literally promoted by Vatican One? You know, this

2554
02:22:45,440 --> 02:22:48,600
full answer like being answering to to Rome. That doesn't

2555
02:22:48,639 --> 02:22:52,360
work like this. The gallicans when the when the poor

2556
02:22:52,520 --> 02:22:55,479
try try to you know, be more ultimate maintained, you know,

2557
02:22:55,600 --> 02:22:58,319
bring more power. So he's actually had at the same

2558
02:22:58,399 --> 02:23:00,879
arguments that that we do, you know, bring up consuls.

2559
02:23:01,319 --> 02:23:03,200
You had the King of Friends at some point Louis

2560
02:23:03,239 --> 02:23:06,000
the fourteen stating that you know the purpose of vicker,

2561
02:23:06,079 --> 02:23:10,840
but I am the lieutenant of God. You you had

2562
02:23:12,120 --> 02:23:15,479
you had kings, you know, after after declarations of like

2563
02:23:16,000 --> 02:23:20,520
after some declarations of supremacy by the pope, you had

2564
02:23:20,600 --> 02:23:24,319
kings sending in commanders. That's that's the real, that's the

2565
02:23:24,360 --> 02:23:28,120
real thing that happened. You're sending like our militiam and

2566
02:23:28,200 --> 02:23:34,719
our army capturing the purpse, holding the hostage. Yeah, you had,

2567
02:23:35,159 --> 02:23:37,079
you had, you know, Peppin, you know, trying to you know,

2568
02:23:37,159 --> 02:23:39,559
creating the paper state, you know, to vassalize the paper states,

2569
02:23:39,760 --> 02:23:43,920
the avenue and papers is the same thing if if

2570
02:23:44,000 --> 02:23:46,840
any interaction between between church and state and the East

2571
02:23:46,959 --> 02:23:49,559
is caesar papers, And guess what you're with the most

2572
02:23:49,600 --> 02:23:53,079
scient papists and and you answer to this was paper Caesaries,

2573
02:23:53,200 --> 02:23:55,319
which was yeah.

2574
02:23:56,760 --> 02:24:00,120
Speaker 1: And the and by the way, that doesn't end in

2575
02:24:00,200 --> 02:24:03,319
the Middle Ages or the Renaissance that continues all the

2576
02:24:03,360 --> 02:24:06,920
way up at the time of the election of Leo thirteenth.

2577
02:24:06,959 --> 02:24:10,440
Because as every trid knows, you all know, if you're

2578
02:24:10,440 --> 02:24:13,959
a studied trid about the story of Cardinal Rampola, I'll

2579
02:24:14,000 --> 02:24:17,040
put the old Catholic Family news article in the chat.

2580
02:24:17,200 --> 02:24:20,600
You can see it there preserved at Free Republic, which

2581
02:24:20,719 --> 02:24:24,000
is it's from two thousand and three. Did the Freemason

2582
02:24:24,079 --> 02:24:28,079
Cardinal Rampola almost become pope? And what does every trid

2583
02:24:28,200 --> 02:24:31,520
say about free Masonic infiltration? Oh, that's who's ruining us

2584
02:24:31,559 --> 02:24:33,280
all that they got us and all this stuff right,

2585
02:24:34,280 --> 02:24:37,920
And what's the story of Cardinal Rampola. The Austro Hungarian

2586
02:24:37,959 --> 02:24:41,559
emperor have the power of vetoing a certain election to

2587
02:24:41,680 --> 02:24:45,639
the papacy. So literally they believe that their papacy was

2588
02:24:45,719 --> 02:24:50,760
saved by Cicero papism in this story that all the

2589
02:24:50,840 --> 02:24:53,120
Trids believe for the most part. I'm sure there's some

2590
02:24:53,200 --> 02:24:56,120
trade who doesn't believe it, but most Trads, most SSPX,

2591
02:24:56,200 --> 02:24:59,000
most seat of a contests believe this story about Cardinal

2592
02:24:59,079 --> 02:25:03,200
Rampola and he was prevented from election because the cardinals

2593
02:25:03,239 --> 02:25:06,680
were going to elect him because the Austrian emperor knew.

2594
02:25:07,159 --> 02:25:10,440
And so the Austrian emperor had this veto power over

2595
02:25:11,879 --> 02:25:15,159
certain people being elected by the cardinals. So but when

2596
02:25:15,200 --> 02:25:18,120
that happens, it's not cesro papism. It's good, you see

2597
02:25:18,760 --> 02:25:21,159
they but there's countless examples of this kind of stuff,

2598
02:25:21,680 --> 02:25:23,840
and so for them to call it cesra papism on

2599
02:25:23,920 --> 02:25:26,680
our side, it's just total dishonesty and ignorance. I mean,

2600
02:25:26,760 --> 02:25:28,319
do they really not know any of the stuff.

2601
02:25:29,319 --> 02:25:31,680
Speaker 2: If you call this Caesar PAPIs, it means that the

2602
02:25:31,760 --> 02:25:34,399
West was never really Catholic and you know, actually that's

2603
02:25:34,399 --> 02:25:36,920
the truth. If you look that they are anathematicism against

2604
02:25:37,040 --> 02:25:40,319
this kind of organization. If you look at these two

2605
02:25:40,399 --> 02:25:43,639
friends from Klobs the first king were converted to Vatican One,

2606
02:25:44,280 --> 02:25:46,600
they had the Gallican organization. If this is an anthem,

2607
02:25:46,639 --> 02:25:51,360
it means that Friends was never Catholic because Friends adopted

2608
02:25:51,399 --> 02:25:54,280
them a low of secularization of the Vatican One, because

2609
02:25:54,319 --> 02:25:57,520
they considered that it was treachery, that it incited treachery

2610
02:25:57,559 --> 02:26:04,399
against the nation way too a nationalist. Yeah that's fine. Uh, yeah,

2611
02:26:04,840 --> 02:26:08,399
this is really existsful claim Caesar papers.

2612
02:26:08,440 --> 02:26:10,719
Speaker 1: And by the way, as you pointed out too many times,

2613
02:26:10,799 --> 02:26:14,399
the Council of Constance actually solves the problem of when

2614
02:26:14,440 --> 02:26:17,159
they have multiple so called claimants to the papacy. Now,

2615
02:26:17,200 --> 02:26:20,239
I thought the Papacy was there to solve the problems

2616
02:26:20,280 --> 02:26:23,000
of disunity, But what about the Council of Constance.

2617
02:26:24,040 --> 02:26:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Council of Constance is great because you have many

2618
02:26:26,479 --> 02:26:30,600
people who bring up the Council of Florence. The Council

2619
02:26:30,600 --> 02:26:33,239
of Florence a full part consul that was preceded by

2620
02:26:33,360 --> 02:26:35,959
the Council of Constance. And in the Council of Constance

2621
02:26:36,079 --> 02:26:39,920
there is a you know, consular document that was signed

2622
02:26:39,920 --> 02:26:42,159
by the Pope, that was chosen by the council. It

2623
02:26:42,319 --> 02:26:47,440
is called Hike Sunkta can look it up and it's

2624
02:26:47,520 --> 02:26:51,280
used by the tries today to try to remove paper authority. Interestingly,

2625
02:26:51,639 --> 02:26:55,600
and Hike Sancta states that the council is above the Pope,

2626
02:26:56,559 --> 02:26:59,879
and ultimately it is because of the propagation of considerism.

2627
02:27:00,000 --> 02:27:04,879
If I some during the Council of Constance that that

2628
02:27:05,120 --> 02:27:07,680
many Eastern bishops said, oh, maybe we can we can

2629
02:27:07,760 --> 02:27:10,520
mend the schism this, maybe we should try to have

2630
02:27:10,639 --> 02:27:13,399
a discussion. So as the Council of Basil, you are

2631
02:27:13,440 --> 02:27:17,639
the first Eastern bishops coming. And then and then of

2632
02:27:17,719 --> 02:27:20,440
course Florence, because we came to Florence because we're like, oh,

2633
02:27:20,520 --> 02:27:23,319
you know, these guys just propagated Hike Sancta in any

2634
02:27:23,360 --> 02:27:26,000
communical council presided by the Pope, signed by the pope

2635
02:27:26,479 --> 02:27:28,200
twenty years ago. You know, these guys are not going

2636
02:27:28,280 --> 02:27:32,239
to contradict themselves so drastically over the course of twenty years.

2637
02:27:32,280 --> 02:27:35,280
But they did. Florence was a big job. They really

2638
02:27:35,319 --> 02:27:37,559
met right as a whole show if you have the

2639
02:27:37,600 --> 02:27:40,520
Counsul of Florence, but as the Council of Florence itself

2640
02:27:40,600 --> 02:27:43,280
contradicts the other councils. So it's you know, they would say,

2641
02:27:43,319 --> 02:27:46,319
oh is this Machestereo. It's perfect, it doesn't contradict. You

2642
02:27:46,399 --> 02:27:50,479
have two consuls that tragically contradict one another. Uh, these

2643
02:27:50,520 --> 02:27:54,680
after schism, so they should they should theoretically know about it, right.

2644
02:27:54,680 --> 02:27:55,040
Speaker 1: They should.

2645
02:27:55,239 --> 02:27:55,360
Speaker 2: Right.

2646
02:27:56,000 --> 02:27:57,520
Speaker 1: Another thing I want to address that they put that

2647
02:27:57,600 --> 02:27:59,799
I think you guys mentioned on youall stream, which was

2648
02:28:00,440 --> 02:28:06,520
the ever appealed to. Oh you guys in Byzantium fell

2649
02:28:06,600 --> 02:28:10,920
to Islam because of your Eastern orthodoxy? Uh do you

2650
02:28:11,280 --> 02:28:13,719
do you know who was in union with who when

2651
02:28:13,760 --> 02:28:15,520
Byzantium fell? Do they not know this?

2652
02:28:16,760 --> 02:28:18,879
Speaker 2: Yeah? So they should know this first of all the

2653
02:28:19,000 --> 02:28:23,159
East in general. So you're creating a schism again because

2654
02:28:23,360 --> 02:28:26,799
the entire East, like most of the packet of the East,

2655
02:28:26,879 --> 02:28:30,399
fell to Islam in full community. From this includes that

2656
02:28:30,600 --> 02:28:36,000
is not limited to joselym Alexandria, Antiock and even Byzantium.

2657
02:28:36,079 --> 02:28:39,920
Byzantium fell under a union emperor and we cannot accept

2658
02:28:40,000 --> 02:28:42,959
him as like you know, if you see his constantly

2659
02:28:42,959 --> 02:28:45,639
in the eleventh he was he is a brother of

2660
02:28:46,000 --> 02:28:51,440
Emperor Johannes Emperor. Joannes even killed and martind like ordered

2661
02:28:51,600 --> 02:28:55,440
the killing of many i Tonite priests because they refused

2662
02:28:55,440 --> 02:28:59,040
a union. He wanted union. So yes, you know he

2663
02:28:59,520 --> 02:29:02,200
constantly felt. But they forget to understand that there even

2664
02:29:02,360 --> 02:29:08,159
was a contingent of of people and Venetian ships that

2665
02:29:08,360 --> 02:29:10,680
it came to help. So yes, if if you know

2666
02:29:10,760 --> 02:29:13,799
the fact that constant plyple felt is a curse orthodoxy,

2667
02:29:14,440 --> 02:29:17,879
it means that you know, it's it's Roman constant pus.

2668
02:29:18,639 --> 02:29:20,600
Speaker 1: And if we're going to start reading the curses of

2669
02:29:20,719 --> 02:29:24,479
what's going on in civilization, then Western civilization has been

2670
02:29:24,600 --> 02:29:27,879
cursed by being Roman Catholic, and the degeneracy and the

2671
02:29:27,920 --> 02:29:30,040
apostacy that we see can be blown on Rome. I mean,

2672
02:29:30,200 --> 02:29:32,959
come on, that's ridiculous way to try to read the

2673
02:29:33,040 --> 02:29:34,600
tea leaves and the omens.

2674
02:29:35,280 --> 02:29:38,280
Speaker 2: Agains the colors person. But this is prosperity gospel to

2675
02:29:38,399 --> 02:29:40,520
forget that, you know, Rome was you know, the Roman

2676
02:29:40,559 --> 02:29:44,680
Patricks was also invaded like to today today all of

2677
02:29:44,959 --> 02:29:47,159
northern Africa, which was you know at one point the

2678
02:29:47,239 --> 02:29:52,200
beating of the Romans reisdiction is today still Muslim. What

2679
02:29:52,440 --> 02:29:56,159
what can we say, oh you splinter in all different branches.

2680
02:29:56,639 --> 02:30:00,399
We we we we never splintered in different benches. People

2681
02:30:01,639 --> 02:30:03,319
went away from the church. He said, oh you have

2682
02:30:03,360 --> 02:30:06,440
the old calendarist. You have you have Silva Kantis. It's

2683
02:30:06,440 --> 02:30:10,120
the same thing. Oh you have the old ritualist as

2684
02:30:10,159 --> 02:30:14,959
old ritualists. Yeah, some group went away. Actually we were

2685
02:30:15,040 --> 02:30:19,559
back in even with many of them. But if if I,

2686
02:30:19,680 --> 02:30:22,040
if I use this metric to determine truth. First of all,

2687
02:30:22,120 --> 02:30:23,719
you know, it means that Islam who took over all

2688
02:30:23,760 --> 02:30:26,520
these places, maybe true. You know Nottings believes this. Say

2689
02:30:26,799 --> 02:30:28,719
the one will conquer constant noble as the right faith

2690
02:30:29,600 --> 02:30:32,680
again says that Protestantism. You know, Oh, Presentism comes from Rome.

2691
02:30:32,760 --> 02:30:36,600
You know there are songs of Rome. You know, maybe

2692
02:30:36,680 --> 02:30:38,559
maybe they are true, Maybe they are the truth. The

2693
02:30:38,600 --> 02:30:40,680
other the one we evangelize more, you know, the Pacha

2694
02:30:40,719 --> 02:30:45,120
mammas that was to prevent too hard and evangelism like

2695
02:30:45,280 --> 02:30:49,520
evangelism in the beating heard of Roman Catholicism. So yes,

2696
02:30:49,559 --> 02:30:52,719
this this is really weird. A prosperity gospel. We evangelize

2697
02:30:52,760 --> 02:30:55,799
more than you we evangelize. The barbarian already showed that

2698
02:30:55,920 --> 02:30:57,760
the Barbarians were not evangelized to.

2699
02:30:57,840 --> 02:31:02,000
Speaker 1: Romanic evangelis right. I mean, go to New Orleans, go

2700
02:31:02,120 --> 02:31:05,000
down to the Congo and see if that's legitimate Christianity.

2701
02:31:05,479 --> 02:31:09,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have people who call themselves Christians because they

2702
02:31:09,120 --> 02:31:12,559
were evangelized by rob who practice mutual cannibalism, have patcha

2703
02:31:12,600 --> 02:31:16,000
Mamma worship. These kind of things didn't appear after Vatican too.

2704
02:31:16,159 --> 02:31:19,280
This is how they were evangelized. They were evangelizing.

2705
02:31:19,639 --> 02:31:23,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. This is the old culturation of the Jesuits. And

2706
02:31:23,760 --> 02:31:26,760
again I know there's different types of culturation, but my

2707
02:31:26,879 --> 02:31:30,479
point is that the syncretistic approach run with allism is

2708
02:31:30,559 --> 02:31:31,600
not real evangelism.

2709
02:31:32,600 --> 02:31:34,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we can even say, like, did you evangualize

2710
02:31:34,600 --> 02:31:37,079
these people? I don't know, because right now you never

2711
02:31:37,319 --> 02:31:41,799
evangelize this place. It is coming back to Roome. So yes,

2712
02:31:41,840 --> 02:31:44,520
I talk about it in my stream type view. But

2713
02:31:44,639 --> 02:31:48,239
the Jesuits, so yes, this is really a weird kind

2714
02:31:48,319 --> 02:31:51,440
of prosperity gospel. We evangelize more people than you. If

2715
02:31:51,479 --> 02:31:54,120
you look at who re evangelized, at some point it

2716
02:31:54,159 --> 02:31:57,559
says who's a Greek? Who is a Greek? You have evangelized, well,

2717
02:31:58,200 --> 02:32:03,680
the Latins. If you look at the Christianity spread, you know,

2718
02:32:04,000 --> 02:32:07,200
if we eventulize someone first re evangelize.

2719
02:32:07,600 --> 02:32:11,280
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna let you if you have any of

2720
02:32:11,319 --> 02:32:12,760
the last points you want to get to. I'm not

2721
02:32:12,799 --> 02:32:15,719
trying to rush you, but I got a few mores

2722
02:32:15,719 --> 02:32:17,159
I want to make, and then maybe we'll wrap this up.

2723
02:32:17,159 --> 02:32:19,440
Because we were almost three hours, which which is a

2724
02:32:19,479 --> 02:32:21,959
good I think we dealt with most of the big ones.

2725
02:32:22,040 --> 02:32:24,879
But I'll let you have the floor and then we'll

2726
02:32:24,879 --> 02:32:27,280
do the super chats. I got, I got one point

2727
02:32:27,319 --> 02:32:28,680
I want to get to, and then I'll let you.

2728
02:32:29,399 --> 02:32:30,959
I'll let you finish here and then I'll do my

2729
02:32:31,000 --> 02:32:33,639
point and then we'll do the super chats. And by

2730
02:32:33,719 --> 02:32:36,360
the way, I'm also I'll put their stream into the

2731
02:32:36,399 --> 02:32:39,319
description of the show. I did share it on my

2732
02:32:39,479 --> 02:32:41,559
channel in the community tab, so you guys can find

2733
02:32:41,559 --> 02:32:43,479
their stream there. But if you're watching this, you know,

2734
02:32:43,639 --> 02:32:45,319
months down the road or a year from now or whatever,

2735
02:32:46,079 --> 02:32:48,520
I'll put David and Everybody's streaming here, and I have

2736
02:32:48,600 --> 02:32:51,360
their original link to Taylor Marshall stream too, so but

2737
02:32:51,760 --> 02:32:55,280
David and Lewis and Snack I'll have their response in

2738
02:32:55,360 --> 02:32:59,639
the description of the show as well. Yeah.

2739
02:33:01,639 --> 02:33:05,200
Speaker 2: So yeah, we covered some other points in other streams.

2740
02:33:05,200 --> 02:33:11,719
So let's look make it too redundant. Yeah, Ultimately, what

2741
02:33:11,799 --> 02:33:14,840
I want to say that their own point is to

2742
02:33:14,959 --> 02:33:17,840
say that we are with the branch. We are withted

2743
02:33:17,879 --> 02:33:21,200
branch because we do not have the authority to do

2744
02:33:21,360 --> 02:33:23,399
a whole lot of things, because they worship authority and

2745
02:33:23,479 --> 02:33:26,520
not God. Actually, be sure that we still have this authority.

2746
02:33:26,559 --> 02:33:29,000
We still keep to the cannons, We still keep to

2747
02:33:29,639 --> 02:33:32,319
we still are able to have consols that are accepted

2748
02:33:32,360 --> 02:33:34,680
by tradition. And at the same time, it makes the

2749
02:33:34,760 --> 02:33:39,319
point that that Rome itself is not using its power.

2750
02:33:39,479 --> 02:33:41,719
That it has portents, but it's not using it. How

2751
02:33:41,799 --> 02:33:43,680
can I say that, you know, if if there is

2752
02:33:43,719 --> 02:33:47,520
no display of of this of this power, how can

2753
02:33:47,559 --> 02:33:49,040
I say that you are not the with the branch.

2754
02:33:49,120 --> 02:33:53,159
You know, as can be room can be grafted out,

2755
02:33:53,360 --> 02:33:56,000
and you can say that you have tranquility in mind

2756
02:33:56,239 --> 02:33:59,159
by saying, oh, you know the perful results thing, Oh

2757
02:33:59,280 --> 02:34:01,120
this is going to be true. You know, his popby

2758
02:34:01,120 --> 02:34:03,280
selected by the people that he names the cardinals. The

2759
02:34:03,360 --> 02:34:08,760
cardinals are all paused. It says, oh exactly, sy, it's

2760
02:34:08,799 --> 02:34:11,360
the only like, it's the only way out, accord to

2761
02:34:11,799 --> 02:34:15,559
one twenty. Yeah, the papacy is the way out for

2762
02:34:15,680 --> 02:34:19,319
the problem caused by the papacy, because with other papacy

2763
02:34:19,360 --> 02:34:22,040
you will have these problems in the first place. If

2764
02:34:22,120 --> 02:34:24,200
you like, this is the problem.