WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:03.839 Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is 2 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:05.679 not intended for all audiences. 3 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:08.519 Listener discretion is advised. 4 00:00:12.279 --> 00:00:14.160 I said, you're not going to be successful to kill 5 00:00:14.199 --> 00:00:16.600 them all. Take you out, and then I'm going to 6 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:20.120 have to explain to people that I'd rather be tried 7 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:21.839 by twelve than carried by six. 8 00:00:30.399 --> 00:00:33.039 If you follow true crime and have for a while, 9 00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:37.159 then there's a place in Florida you might be familiar with. 10 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:40.719 It's right in the heart of Florida, and it's far 11 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:44.280 from the beaches and tourist traps. It's a little place 12 00:00:44.439 --> 00:00:50.920 called Polk County. It's mostly farmland, chain restaurants and retirement 13 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:54.399 communities like the rest of Florida, but you may be 14 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:58.640 familiar with the tough on crime press conferences that the 15 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:03.759 share to hold, many of which have gone viral over 16 00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:07.040 the last couple of years. In Bulk County is the 17 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:13.200 small city of Auburndale, nestled between Lakeland and winter Haven 18 00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:18.159 to shitholes by the way. It takes pride in being quiet, friendly, 19 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:21.519 and the kind of place where neighbors recognize each other. 20 00:01:22.439 --> 00:01:26.599 Inside the gates of the Hamptons, a fifty five plus 21 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:31.560 country club style retirement community are golf carts, manicured lawns, 22 00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:36.599 and rows of tiny, pre manufactured homes. At sunset, neighbors 23 00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:39.680 wave from their front porches as golf carts hum down 24 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:45.159 the street. It's quiet, safe, or well it should be. 25 00:01:46.040 --> 00:01:49.079 But on September eighth, twenty twenty four, just after six 26 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:54.560 in the evening, that calm was shattered behind the white 27 00:01:54.599 --> 00:01:59.200 siding of seventy seven Hewlett Drive. A boy's frantic voice 28 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:01.000 reached another one one operator. 29 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:04.400 My mom now bleeding out. 30 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:08.120 He helped your mom enjoy what my mom's bleeding out? 31 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:09.800 He's bleeding out? 32 00:02:10.639 --> 00:02:11.000 Okay. 33 00:02:11.840 --> 00:02:15.719 On the call was seventeen year old Colin Griffith. He 34 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:19.479 told the dispatcher that his mother needed EMS because she 35 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:22.800 was now bleeding out. 36 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:24.280 How do I with someone? 37 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:26.520 I didn't get into the hospital with someone? 38 00:02:26.680 --> 00:02:27.439 Okay? 39 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:31.439 He called number one, So we're going to be an angelus. 40 00:02:32.199 --> 00:02:35.199 He doesn't have time. He's leaking at she chee's fucking nails. 41 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:35.879 Here's that time. 42 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:40.680 So now the ambulance couldn't get there fast enough. Colin's 43 00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:43.120 panic was obvious as he pleaded for them to help 44 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:45.479 his mother. She didn't have a lot of time. 45 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:47.080 He's bleeding out. 46 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:54.360 She's bleeding from my mother, Colin's thirty nine year old mother, 47 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:59.560 Kathy was bleeding from the neck and fading fast. 48 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:05.599 No peak, unconscious, breathing, No, no. 49 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:12.080 If you's not, I don't think why you said she 50 00:03:12.199 --> 00:03:15.479 was non responsive and not breathing before he said I 51 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:19.360 don't think she's alive. Colin's voice trailed off as he 52 00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:24.360 realized his mother might already be dead. The dispatcher guided 53 00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:28.400 him through performing CPR. Colin got his mother flat on 54 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:33.199 her back, positioned his hands over her heart, and started pumping. 55 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:36.639 The dispatcher counted him down. 56 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:43.639 Wine true screen or wine true straight horror wine too 57 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:44.599 fore moment. 58 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:50.439 As the dispatcher relayed information to first responders, Colin continued 59 00:03:50.439 --> 00:04:07.280 to pump his mother's chest. 60 00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:08.560 The knife to go on it. 61 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:13.159 I know it's difficult to understand, but Colin said, we 62 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:16.639 got into a fight. She lunged at me with a knife, 63 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:20.000 and she fell on it. He explained it was a 64 00:04:20.120 --> 00:04:23.199 long and drawn out argument that ended with his mother 65 00:04:23.319 --> 00:04:27.000 trying to attack him with a knife, but instead she 66 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:30.800 tripped and fell on it. She now had a gaping 67 00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:36.639 wound that was spilling blood until there wasn't any left. 68 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:41.399 There's no more blood coming out of the moon set off. 69 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:45.079 The wound was so large that the only thing CPR 70 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:47.360 had done was helped pump the rest of her blood 71 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:51.319 out onto the kitchen floor. Only then did the dispatcher 72 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:54.800 instruct him on how to stop the bleeding, get a clean, 73 00:04:54.959 --> 00:04:58.399 dry towel, and apply pressure to the wound. The only 74 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:01.560 thing was she had no blo blood left. It was 75 00:05:01.600 --> 00:05:02.480 already too late. 76 00:05:03.160 --> 00:05:05.800 It felt like he fells. 77 00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:08.480 Even though he himself thought it was already too late. 78 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:13.279 Callin followed the dispatcher's instructions until first responders arrived and 79 00:05:13.519 --> 00:05:17.399 flooded the quiet retirement community with flashing lights and sirens. 80 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:21.439 As I walked into the house, I immediately began to 81 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:24.920 clear the house as my partner walked up to Colin Griffith. 82 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:27.240 And then after clearing the house, is when I walked 83 00:05:27.240 --> 00:05:29.720 back into the living room area made it known that 84 00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:32.000 it was clear, and that is when my partner advised 85 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:33.839 me to take Colin Griffith outside. 86 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:36.480 And while walking into the kitchen, I saw a knife, 87 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:40.240 a blood covered knife over in front of the washer 88 00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:44.959 and dryer. To my left saw the subject in the kitchen. 89 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:49.240 In the kitchen, I saw a large pool of blood 90 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:54.040 around the subjects head. In that area was spatter going 91 00:05:54.120 --> 00:05:55.079 up the side of the cabinet. 92 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:59.720 Deputies cleared the house so fire and rescue could enter. 93 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:04.240 Say they made contact with Colin and immediately noticed something odd. 94 00:06:04.839 --> 00:06:09.639 For doing normal CPR and everything everybody, assuming everybody's been 95 00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:13.800 taught and seeing videos on doing CPR from beside, the 96 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:18.240 person never overtopped their head, blocking air, possibly blocking airways. 97 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:22.800 The home was narrow, no larger than a single wide trailer. 98 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:25.720 There wasn't enough room for Colin to kneel next to 99 00:06:25.759 --> 00:06:29.040 his mother, so he knelt over her head, but from 100 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:31.480 the looks of her wound, it didn't matter if he 101 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:32.439 was doing it the right way. 102 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:36.519 The stabloon itself did not seem to be very wide. 103 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:42.759 It was kind of narrow in size. Upon for inspection 104 00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:45.399 after starting the CPR, it was obvious that every time 105 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:48.120 I did a compression there was air that's coming through 106 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:54.079 the wound itself, so it was obviously pretty deep. It 107 00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:56.160 looked like a lot of the vastulature and the stuff 108 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:58.600 inside of the wound itself was very obvious and could 109 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:02.600 be seen, and that they had cut major areas such as. 110 00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:06.839 Ars amts rushed inside and surrounded her body, but there 111 00:07:06.879 --> 00:07:10.560 was nothing they could do. Only thirteen minutes after the 112 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:14.720 nine to one one call started, Kathy was pronounced deceased, 113 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:20.519 but her cause of death was questionable. The EMTs didn't 114 00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:22.560 have all the information from the nine to one one call. 115 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:26.680 They didn't know about the long fight. All they knew 116 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:29.800 was what they saw, and it seemed improbable that Kathy 117 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:33.759 tripped and stabbed herself directly in the jugular. The knife 118 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:36.759 entered the front part of her neck and exited the 119 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:43.759 back left. The entire prospect was too cartoonish. Stranger still 120 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:47.519 was Colin's behavior in the moments after her first responders arrived. 121 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:50.000 When I first walked him outside, he was a little 122 00:07:50.040 --> 00:07:53.920 bit frantic, seemed like something was definitely going on. And 123 00:07:53.959 --> 00:07:57.079 then as he began to explain what happened is when 124 00:07:57.439 --> 00:07:58.759 he became very calm. 125 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:02.079 His demeanor completely changed from my personal experience. It was 126 00:08:02.120 --> 00:08:05.879 a little odd in nature. He didn't seem very distraught 127 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:09.959 or upset. He seemed kind of calm upon my entering 128 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:13.439 the residence, and then upon exiting the residence he seemed 129 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:16.800 to almost have a not a full argument, but somewhat 130 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:19.439 argumentative with the deputies that were trying to assist him 131 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:20.480 out of the residence. 132 00:08:21.279 --> 00:08:25.199 He was calm, too calm. He had just witnessed his 133 00:08:25.240 --> 00:08:30.480 mother die, but he wasn't distraught, He wasn't even panicked 134 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:33.559 like in the nine to one one call. Before deputies 135 00:08:33.559 --> 00:08:37.480 could ask him any questions, he exclaimed, I know my rights. 136 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:41.200 I want an attorney. On the nine to one one call, 137 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:44.039 he claimed her death was accidental after he and his 138 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:46.600 mom got into an argument that got out of hand. 139 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:50.000 Then he asked for a lawyer before any questions could 140 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:54.399 be asked. But later he would offer up another explanation. 141 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:58.000 He said he was on the floor and his mother 142 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:00.799 was on top of him with a knife. She was 143 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:04.480 bearing down, ready to stab him, when at the last second, 144 00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:08.559 he turned the blade towards her and she fell on it, 145 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:13.480 just like in the movies. You know, Colin was placed 146 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:16.399 in the back of a patrol car as the nervous 147 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:20.919 neighbors looked on. Every law enforcement officer who witnessed the 148 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:25.159 scene knew Kathy didn't fall on that knife, but the 149 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:29.159 only person who could tell them what happened that just 150 00:09:29.240 --> 00:09:34.159 lawyered up was Kathy, a deranged mother in a homicidal rage. 151 00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:39.960 Was she mommy dearest? Or was Colin a cold and 152 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:46.320 calculated killer. Only a thorough investigation would provide that answer. 153 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:08.679 Inside the Hampton's, a quiet retirement community in Auburndale, Florida, 154 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:11.960 seventeen year old Colin Griffith called nine to one one. 155 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:16.399 A teenager in panic, He begged the dispatcher to save 156 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:19.759 his mother as she bled from a wound to the neck, 157 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:24.320 But when deputies arrived minutes later, they found it different. Colin, 158 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:28.720 his mother, Kathy, lay in the kitchen. It was too 159 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:31.600 late to help her, and the boy who sounded so 160 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:37.919 desperate on the phone was now composed cold. Even what 161 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:41.879 started as a call for help had become a homicide investigation. 162 00:10:42.679 --> 00:10:46.039 The scene inside the house was grim, but outside, others 163 00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:49.279 had seen and heard things that would soon cast Colin's 164 00:10:49.279 --> 00:10:54.279 story in more doubt. Neighbors along Hewlett Drive told investigators 165 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:55.840 what they witnessed that evening. 166 00:10:56.600 --> 00:10:59.080 Let me start from the very starre Yeah, I got 167 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:02.039 a phone call yes yesterday from the lady that owns 168 00:11:02.080 --> 00:11:04.000 the property, Because I do. 169 00:11:04.039 --> 00:11:06.080 When you see the property, what property are you referring to? 170 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:07.360 The white house? 171 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:09.879 Okay, the one that's directly across where the dead bees 172 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:10.200 are at. 173 00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:12.919 Yeah, what is the name of the lady you spoke with, Susan? 174 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:17.399 Susan Durkham. I don't know how she's got a weird 175 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:18.000 last name. 176 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:22.159 The owner of the home was Colin's grandmother, Susan Debtman. 177 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:25.399 She called her neighbor the day before to let her 178 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:28.320 know Colin would be arriving and not to worry. 179 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:31.799 My grandson is going to be coming to stay at 180 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:34.000 my house. I just want to let you know if 181 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:37.399 you see a black car in the driveway, it's my grandson. 182 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:40.759 And I said, oh, okay, yeah, I know Colin. Yeah, 183 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:43.600 no problem. That was the end of the conversation. 184 00:11:44.600 --> 00:11:47.120 Like any good neighbor, the residents of the Hamptons looked 185 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:49.679 out for each other. I mean, they have a lot 186 00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:52.360 of free time on their hands. It is, after all, 187 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:53.840 a retirement community. 188 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:56.919 Now, that white car didn't show up till today. 189 00:11:58.440 --> 00:11:59.840 Do you know whose white car that is? 190 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:02.320 As a young lady with dark hair. 191 00:12:02.679 --> 00:12:03.720 Have you ever seen her before? 192 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:05.440 Yeah, I've sent her over there before. 193 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:06.919 And you don't know who she is. 194 00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:08.879 Susan said, it's her daughter. 195 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:13.960 Almost immediately after Colin's mother arrived, they started arguing. 196 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:17.480 This car shows up today and she pulls in the driveway, 197 00:12:17.639 --> 00:12:21.080 and the kid comes out, and she backs out of 198 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:23.200 the driveway and she pulls it right there, and she 199 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:28.960 gets out with her purse and walks up there, and 200 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:33.639 him and her started arguing and then start throwing stuff 201 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:34.399 in the black guar. 202 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:36.960 I don't know what it was. Looked like clothes and stuff. 203 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:39.240 And next thing I know, he pulled her by the 204 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:41.600 hair of the head and pulled her back into the house. 205 00:12:42.279 --> 00:12:45.200 This neighbor could hear the argument, but not what they 206 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:48.240 were saying. Another neighbor heard a little more. 207 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:51.759 Then I heard her say, let me go, let me go, 208 00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:54.080 and you got my head. You're hurting me. You're hurting me, 209 00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:55.840 and he drug her in the fills. 210 00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:00.320 Two neighbors witnessed the start of the argument. As soon 211 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.080 as Kathy got out of her car, she started talking 212 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:06.960 with Colin. The neighbors couldn't hear what they were saying, 213 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:11.600 but their body language screamed argument. Then Colin grabbed a 214 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:14.159 fistful of his mother's hair and pulled her inside as 215 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:16.720 she yelled, let me go, you're hurting me. 216 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:19.840 You know, I knew some problems as she had rid 217 00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:20.519 of runs. 218 00:13:20.279 --> 00:13:23.240 In before and those huh, what are those problems? 219 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:27.960 Well, she said that the mother and the grandson were 220 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:31.559 at each other last winter, and the grandson come and 221 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:34.679 stayed here. I guess there was some problems here because 222 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:37.159 the cops were out here two or three times last winter. 223 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:40.519 Apparently this wasn't the first time Colin had fought with 224 00:13:40.559 --> 00:13:44.639 his mother. The previous year, Colin stayed with his grandmother 225 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:47.159 to let things cool off between him and his mom, 226 00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:50.960 but the tension between them never left a simmering point. 227 00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:54.759 I called Susan. Sue's all this happened? I called Susan, 228 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:56.960 I said, Susan's uth going on over to your house? 229 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:00.200 I said, his cops everywhere. I said, you're great, and 230 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:03.399 sons outside, it looks like he's crying. She said, where's 231 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:03.879 my daughter? 232 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:07.240 I said, I don't know that tension must have built 233 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:09.960 and built, has it erupted in a fight in the 234 00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:13.480 driveway ending with Kathy being stabbed in the neck. 235 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:16.679 And then while you guys are out there doing that, 236 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:18.519 guess get what phone call? 237 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:18.919 I get? 238 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:22.480 His probation officer calls, who's that? 239 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:24.799 Collins called you? 240 00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:26.600 Uh? 241 00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:25.519 Uh? 242 00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:30.240 If I heard the phone call in there It's from 243 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:34.320 a nine four six number. And she says, is this 244 00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:36.080 kay Jones? I said yes. 245 00:14:36.279 --> 00:14:42.399 She said, well, I am calling so and so's probation officer. 246 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:48.399 I'm a juvenile detention officer is calling okay? And I said, yeah, 247 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:51.320 cop sitting out there talking to him. But I don't 248 00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:54.120 know anything else. And she said, did you hear any 249 00:14:54.159 --> 00:14:55.399 gunshots or anything? 250 00:14:55.519 --> 00:14:59.519 I said no. I said, what's going on? She said, 251 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:00.720 is oh okay? 252 00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:03.320 And I said yeah. 253 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:06.240 The neighbors at the Hamptons didn't know Colin's background, but 254 00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:09.799 a call from his juvenile probation officer hinted at him 255 00:15:10.120 --> 00:15:13.679 being a troubled teen. When his grandmother finally arrived home, 256 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:18.480 she found her normally quiet street in chaos. Immediately she 257 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:22.320 knew her daughter was dead, and she also knew who 258 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:22.879 had done it. 259 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:25.080 How was the relationship at the beginning. 260 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:29.159 In the beginning, it was fine, okay, and then there 261 00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:30.840 started to be problems. 262 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:33.039 Okay? Can you describe the problems? 263 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:36.840 He didn't want to do what Kathy told him to do. 264 00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:43.080 Kathy would basically, you know, harp on him. 265 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:46.720 When Colin attacked his mother and stomped on her hand. 266 00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:49.960 She was only trying to discipline her seventeen year old son. 267 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:54.159 He hadn't done the chores she assigned him. She threatened 268 00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:57.240 to take away his xbox and cell phone. That's when 269 00:15:57.320 --> 00:15:58.360 Colin flipped out. 270 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:03.519 So anyway, so I was there and he pushed her 271 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:05.480 and stomped on her hand. 272 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:08.360 Colin stood up, looked at his mother in the eye 273 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:12.480 and said, let's go, before pushing her to the ground 274 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:16.159 with a single move and stomping on her hand. Needless 275 00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:17.799 to say, the police were called. 276 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:21.080 I'm in a constant state of thought. 277 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:23.759 It by it, and I don't know if I think 278 00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:26.039 she's going to do something. Even if she's not, I 279 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:30.039 might act. I'm not going to go crazy or anything, 280 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:32.759 but I'm I'm not sure, honest. 281 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:37.080 Yes, So then he was in the police squad. Cathy 282 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:41.279 refused to go to the hospital for her hand mm hmmm. 283 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:44.840 And he called me over to the police squad and said, Mama, 284 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:48.279 you know she pushed me first. And I said, Colin, 285 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.200 I was there, that's not what happened. 286 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:51.159 I said, I. 287 00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:54.279 Agree that she was very aggressive to you. I said, 288 00:16:54.279 --> 00:16:56.799 but you pushed her and we talked about this, and 289 00:16:56.840 --> 00:16:58.320 then you stomped on her hand. 290 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:02.120 Yeah, tried to say she attacked him first, but his 291 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:05.839 grandmother witnessed the whole thing. He was arrested and charged 292 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:08.559 as a juvenile for domestic violence. 293 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:10.640 So he was put on probation. 294 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:14.680 Okay for that incident. Yes, was he charged with domestic violence? 295 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:15.839 Yep, he was. 296 00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:19.400 He was. He was put on probation. He was supposed 297 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:23.720 to be getting off of probation this month. 298 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:30.400 Colin was processed, charged and sentenced to probation. The court 299 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:33.799 recommended he remained separate from his mother for some time 300 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:37.680 before going home, so he lived with his grandmother for 301 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:41.160 a couple of weeks. As if that's a solution. Am 302 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:44.279 I the only one noticing a lack of male paternal 303 00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:46.279 figures in Colin's life. 304 00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:49.039 When she came to pick him up, he ran away. 305 00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:53.799 So then he was gone for two days. We couldn't 306 00:17:53.839 --> 00:17:58.279 find him because she came and he looked at me 307 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.519 and he said, you are fucking crazy. If you think 308 00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:03.960 that I'm getting in the car with my mom, you 309 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:07.240 have gone completely nuts. And I went Colin, we talked 310 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:09.559 about all this. He said, I'm not going back, and 311 00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:13.519 he took off. It was pouring down rain, So finally 312 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:19.440 you all picked him up and took him to DHS 313 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:22.880 or whatever it's called in this state, you know, the yes. 314 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:27.880 So he ran away from df DSF dyslexic much he 315 00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:31.640 was out again. So finally he was picked up and 316 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:35.279 law enforcement brought him home. And that's when they said, 317 00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:40.079 we're going to have lease coming, you know every so often, 318 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:43.279 like every day, it's anywhere from I think seven in 319 00:18:43.319 --> 00:18:45.839 the morning to midnight, to check and make sure you 320 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:46.680 guys are okay. 321 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:50.880 After a couple of weeks, said his grandmother's, Colin refused 322 00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:54.079 to return to his mother's house. He ran off into 323 00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:57.400 the rain and was gone for two days. When the 324 00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:00.359 police finally found him, they took him into the Crisis 325 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:05.640 Stabilization Unit CSU is a short term, specialized facility that 326 00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:09.720 provides immediate, round the clock psychiatric care and support for 327 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:15.079 individuals experiencing a severe mental health crisis, such as suicidal thoughts, 328 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:21.400 severe agitation, or psychosis. There, Colin was evaluated, deemed not 329 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:25.559 a threat to himself for others, and released. They love 330 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:28.880 their catch and release at these places because they just 331 00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:32.359 don't have the money, the funding, the beds to keep people. 332 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:36.400 Why is that when we spend so much money in 333 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:39.799 this country, so much more than we even make really 334 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:44.160 in taxes every year. We can't even provide basic services. 335 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:48.279 I wonder who's sneaking into the cookie jar when we're 336 00:19:48.279 --> 00:19:52.480 not looking. Anyway, the front doors opened wide for Colin 337 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:57.480 and he walked straight out of that facility, cured supposedly. 338 00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:01.599 And when the doors opened, young man came straight up 339 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:04.920 to me and approached me and said, I needed to 340 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:07.720 be baker acting. Were you surprised to hear that? 341 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:08.319 Oh? 342 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:10.839 Yeah, busically people want to leave. 343 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:14.480 Did you ask him why he said that, Yes. 344 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:15.880 I did. It's unusual. 345 00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:18.599 He said, I need to be baker acted because I'm 346 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:21.960 either going to go kill myself or and he said 347 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:22.400 his mother. 348 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.200 Colin didn't want to go back home with his mom. 349 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:28.480 He went further, saying he would throw them out of 350 00:20:28.519 --> 00:20:32.039 the car, shoot them, or stab them. He also mentioned 351 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:34.720 that his grandmother wasn't safe if he went home with 352 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:38.519 her either. Maybe sometimes we should listen to these people 353 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:43.319 when they're telling us exactly what they're going to do. No, okay, 354 00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:48.039 suit yourself. Colin was placed on a psychiatric hold for 355 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:50.880 three more days. Eventually he had to go back home 356 00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:54.559 with his mom. Though anyway, for a while, everything was okay, 357 00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:57.319 A couple of officers were signed to him, and they 358 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:00.000 would check in at random times every day to ensure 359 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:03.640 he and his mom were okay. He even started to 360 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:07.400 go to church with one of the officers. He graduated 361 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:10.000 from high school a year early, got a job, and 362 00:21:10.839 --> 00:21:14.319 enrolled in college. Then the tension between him and his 363 00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:18.680 mom arose again. By September seventh, twenty twenty four, the 364 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:23.039 day before Kathy's death, they were doing nothing but arguing. 365 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:27.680 So Colin called me at one and said, my mom 366 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.039 kicked me out. What am I supposed to do? I said, 367 00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:32.960 you need to go back home? He said, no, no, 368 00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:35.000 I don't feel comfortable. 369 00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:38.599 Kathy had kicked him out of the house, so Colin 370 00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:42.480 loaded up his car and went to Grandma Susan's. Susan 371 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:45.480 was once again inserted into the middle of the argument. 372 00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:48.799 She spoke with Kathy and even though she kicked him out, 373 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:51.799 she now demanded that he come home the next morning. 374 00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:55.079 She wanted Colin to be at home at ten o'clock. 375 00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:57.359 In the morning. In the morning, yes, okay, she said. 376 00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:00.680 If not, she was calling the police. She was training 377 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:02.920 him in as a runaway. I said, he can't be 378 00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:05.240 turned in in a runaway. He's at my house. And 379 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:08.799 Detective Lacey even said that's fine, and she said, well, 380 00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:11.680 he didn't tell his probation officer. I said, yes, he did. 381 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.279 He left a message that he was going to his 382 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:17.279 grandmother's house. Yes, she said, I'm going to come and 383 00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:23.039 get him. He's going to follow me with with his car. 384 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:27.559 He didn't have gas. She had blocked his checking account, 385 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:30.359 his check card, so he didn't have access to that. 386 00:22:31.359 --> 00:22:35.240 I told Colin, I said, your mom's going to be there. 387 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:36.759 I said, don't touch her. 388 00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:38.839 Be nice. 389 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:43.000 Sadly, Colin didn't take that advice. Kathy lay lifeless on 390 00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:46.920 her mother's kitchen floor in a pool of blood. Colin 391 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:49.240 sat in the back of a patrol car, waiting to 392 00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:53.519 be taken to the station and charged with murder. In 393 00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:56.079 the days that followed, detectives spoke with the rest of 394 00:22:56.119 --> 00:22:59.880 Colin's family, trying to understand exactly what had happened between 395 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:04.680 him and his mother. His grandfather wasn't surprised at all. 396 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:09.799 He and his mom were having difficulties and when she'd 397 00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:13.920 set down limits on behavior, he would not just rebel, 398 00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:18.240 he would become violent. And they had asked me because 399 00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:21.640 Susan said, hey, can't. I can't deal with this and 400 00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:24.119 he can't be with Kathy because he's threaten to kill her. 401 00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:26.720