Speaker 1: You're listening to Why we Do what we Do. Welcome
Speaker 1: to Why we Do what we Do. I am your
Speaker 1: lexically diverse host, Abraham.
Speaker 2: And I am your grammatically interested host Shane.
Speaker 1: We are a psychology podcast. We talk about the things
Speaker 1: that humans and non human animals do. And this is
Speaker 1: a second part to a discussion we've been having about
Speaker 1: African American Vernacular English or AAVE. So if you didn't
Speaker 1: hear the first part, that sets a lot of the
Speaker 1: groundwork for understanding the history of this, why it's relevant,
Speaker 1: why we're talking about it, etc. Some terms and phrases
Speaker 1: and things to know about it. But this second part
Speaker 1: is going to focus more on some of the grammar
Speaker 1: and structure and components of this dialect, which I think
Speaker 1: is very interesting in one of the things that I
Speaker 1: was looking forward to talking about in this discussion. So
Speaker 1: that's where we find ourselves today. So if you're joining
Speaker 1: us for the first time, then welcome. We hope you
Speaker 1: enjoy what you hear in this podcast, and you might
Speaker 1: benefit from going to check out the first part of
Speaker 1: this if you haven't heard it already. But as always,
Speaker 1: we try and have everything stand as alone as possible,
Speaker 1: so do a brief recap of what we discussed last time.
Speaker 1: But if you're a returning person, then welcome back. I'm
Speaker 1: glad that you continue to seek us out. And either way,
Speaker 1: if you like to support us, who can join us
Speaker 1: on Patreon, leave us a rating and review, like subscribe,
Speaker 1: tell a friend, etc. But I think that's what we
Speaker 1: have to say about that part of this. I'll talk
Speaker 1: more about the ways you can support us at the
Speaker 1: end of this discussion. But today is June twenty fourth,
Speaker 1: so happy Celebration of the senses everyone.
Speaker 2: Yes. Yes, It's also International Fairy Day, okay.
Speaker 1: And as Museum Comes to Life Day. I feel like
Speaker 1: they made a movie about this.
Speaker 2: There's I think a couple of them. Even It's National
Speaker 2: Parchment Cooking Day cool and National Praleens Day yup, tasty
Speaker 2: or prowleens, depending on where you're at and what you prefer,
Speaker 2: but I call them praleens. Ni. It is swim all
Speaker 2: Ap Day.
Speaker 1: It is Amateur Radio Week.
Speaker 2: Yes it is. It's also carpenter Ant Awareness Week, so
Speaker 2: watch out for those aunt built tables exactly.
Speaker 1: It is Fish Our Friends not food Week. I agree
Speaker 1: with this.
Speaker 2: I like that. And it's National Forgiveness Week.
Speaker 1: I like that too. Well, talking about the holidays is fun,
Speaker 1: but that's probably not why you're here, I don't think,
Speaker 1: not sure, But anyway, we just do that as a
Speaker 1: brief segment at the beginning. So if that's why you're here,
Speaker 1: then have good rest of your day. But otherwise, we're
Speaker 1: gonna dive into our topic DJOR, which, as I said,
Speaker 1: is our follow up to last week's episode discussing African
Speaker 1: American Vernacular English or aav E. We'll get into more
Speaker 1: of that today, but before we do that, is there
Speaker 1: anything that I'm aster you'd like to add or are
Speaker 1: we ready to dive into or topic?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, I think the only thing I would
Speaker 2: say is I think we need to do a quick
Speaker 2: recap before we get too far into it. But yeah,
Speaker 2: nothing outside of that, I think.
Speaker 1: Okay, right, yeah, perfect, Let's do a quick discussion about
Speaker 1: what we said last time in unpacking some of the
Speaker 1: history and importance here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So last week we talked about the idea that
Speaker 2: African American Vernicular English, or in some spaces more colloquially
Speaker 2: known as a bonyx unfortunately, is a dialect of English,
Speaker 2: and just as a reminder, we use the terms dialect
Speaker 2: ethn elect and socio elect, which referred to the dialect
Speaker 2: being a variety of language that has distinguished vocabulary, grammar
Speaker 2: pronunciation within a language, ethno elect being that the language
Speaker 2: is very specific to a particular ethnic or cultural group,
Speaker 2: and socio elect being that the specific dialector jargon belonged
Speaker 2: to a particular social group. And so AAVE itself is
Speaker 2: described as a dialect and eth elect and a socio
Speaker 2: elect because it does often apply to working class Black
Speaker 2: Americans in particular areas, and so that's where it had
Speaker 2: come from. Historically, it has a pretty interesting kind of
Speaker 2: like background. We don't really know where it emerged or
Speaker 2: where it started officially, but we do know that it
Speaker 2: may have been doun in Virginia and Maryland, moved to
Speaker 2: the Carolinas, may have started by including African languages and
Speaker 2: Creole variations and mixed it with American English. There's lots
Speaker 2: of kind of things from there. But doctor Robert Williams
Speaker 2: coined the term at bonics, originally saying that it was
Speaker 2: ebony black and phonics sounds to create a bonics. That
Speaker 2: term is no longer used because it is more advanced
Speaker 2: than that, and we kind of covered that in the episode,
Speaker 2: but at this point in time, we do want to
Speaker 2: kind of point out that this started in the seventies,
Speaker 2: like the actual official terms now. In ninety six, the
Speaker 2: Oakland Unified School District pass resolution to require AVE resources
Speaker 2: as a teaching option and like making sure that was
Speaker 2: included in English courses, and that caused a whole bunch
Speaker 2: of hubbub and resulted in lots of litigation and public
Speaker 2: dissent and all of these things, and eventually the resolution
Speaker 2: was retracted and then just kind of used as an option.
Speaker 2: So that's kind of where we ended up. And today
Speaker 2: we're still seeing some fallout from this and even some
Speaker 2: legal precedents for the use of AAVE in places like
Speaker 2: courtrooms where stenographers are not accurately transcribing language when AAV
Speaker 2: is in place. We saw this famously in the trayvon
Speaker 2: Martin case, where a testimony was perceived as incomprehensible despite
Speaker 2: the fact that the person, Rachel Jantelle, her testimony used
Speaker 2: a lot of AAVE dialect and basically the system did
Speaker 2: not capture that in a really meaningful way for her.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that definitely stood I
Speaker 1: was a really good summary. By the way. One of
Speaker 1: this one of the things that definitely stood out to
Speaker 1: me is a key sort of take home point from
Speaker 1: our discussion last week, is that it's important to consider
Speaker 1: that this the AAV is its own dialect, Like researchers
Speaker 1: have looked at this and it is like a cohesive language,
Speaker 1: and that there are aspects of this that are treated
Speaker 1: as if it's like some diluted version of English, which
Speaker 1: it is not, and that that is largely sort of
Speaker 1: been orchestrated by groups who are I mean, really, for
Speaker 1: a lack of another way to say this, like this
Speaker 1: it feels very racially motivated. It's like, sure, we can't
Speaker 1: appreciate that a dialect may have emerged without saying that
Speaker 1: with and just that that's what it is, without accusing
Speaker 1: it of being like a lesser version of something because
Speaker 1: we can associate that dialogue with a particular group of people,
Speaker 1: and like that seems to be very common strategy of
Speaker 1: conservatives more broadly, particularly in political spaces, is to lean
Speaker 1: on that and to use this as a fear mongeringa
Speaker 1: of like, look what happens these people are destroying our
Speaker 1: language is like a thing that they kind of say,
Speaker 1: but that's really not what's happening it. Like many languages,
Speaker 1: it just has this history of convergence of other influences
Speaker 1: from different languages that just kind of shaped it into
Speaker 1: its own little dialect. And it's like, obviously it has
Speaker 1: a lot of English components in it, that's what a
Speaker 1: dialect is. But many languages have variety in their dialect
Speaker 1: because of a particular region or group or something where
Speaker 1: it happens to be the case that people communicate in
Speaker 1: a slightly different way, but it's pretty close to like
Speaker 1: the language that they sort of brand like diverged from
Speaker 1: in their evolutionary trajectory. But that doesn't make it any
Speaker 1: less than that original language, or make that other language
Speaker 1: more than that one. Like it happens all over the
Speaker 1: place that dialects emerge, and so yeah, I think just
Speaker 1: a really critical key component in my mind that we
Speaker 1: left with was understanding that this is a language, and
Speaker 1: it is it is its own dialect, and we do
Speaker 1: a disservice to people who use this dialect by assuming
Speaker 1: that we should be able to just understand them in
Speaker 1: the same way that they should be able to understand us.
Speaker 1: That there's like some barrier there that is like their
Speaker 1: problem and not our problem.
Speaker 2: Right well, and I think another thing too, And we
Speaker 2: kind of talked about this in the American English episode,
Speaker 2: where language is one of the ways that people will
Speaker 2: other other groups of people, Right, Yeah, this is a
Speaker 2: really easy way for people to go, Oh, you don't
Speaker 2: speak what is considered professional, or you don't speak any
Speaker 2: clear dialect, you don't speak in a way that I understand.
Speaker 2: And because I'm in power, this is what we're gonna do.
Speaker 2: I mean, this has been Language has been one of
Speaker 2: the ways that people in power have tried to oppress
Speaker 2: other people for centuries in millennia, So like this is
Speaker 2: just this is just showing up in a different way
Speaker 2: than maybe what we have seen in the past in
Speaker 2: terms of how we're talking about it. But the sentiment
Speaker 2: is the same, which is anybody who's using this and
Speaker 2: this is you know, per people of power and how
Speaker 2: they kind of look at this. If you're using AVE,
Speaker 2: then you're not speaking professionally, so that you're not qualified,
Speaker 2: you're not educated, Da da da. And this is kind
Speaker 2: of one of the quote unquote kind of like surface
Speaker 2: level arguments that they'll make. But ultimately it just becomes
Speaker 2: a question of racism and racist systems.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think that is a good way to
Speaker 1: sort of summarize what we discussed last time. Either it's
Speaker 1: a great reminder for those of you who heard it,
Speaker 1: or it is a primer for those of you who
Speaker 1: did not hear and don't want to go back and listen.
Speaker 1: But either way, I think that gives us a sufficient
Speaker 1: enough background that we can transition now to the rest
Speaker 1: of the discussion we have qu'ed up for today, which
Speaker 1: is again discussing sort of the grammatical structural components of
Speaker 1: this and how it works.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So at this point, you've probably heard some of
Speaker 2: the episodes and you've probably thinking about this, and you're going, well,
Speaker 2: what makes AAV different than other dialects, or what makes
Speaker 2: it a dialect? That is, its separate structure when it
Speaker 2: comes to the grammar, syntax, some of the verbs, and
Speaker 2: the language it's in it like, what makes it different?
Speaker 2: And so I'm glad you asked you language dogs, We're
Speaker 2: here to give you that the first thing that comes
Speaker 2: up in aave, or at least one of the characteristic
Speaker 2: it's not the first thing one of the characters that
Speaker 2: we should talk about is the habitual B B E.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not the insect.
Speaker 2: Not the insect. No, that habitual be is a very different,
Speaker 2: different situation. Yeah, the habitual B B E refers to
Speaker 2: the addition of the word B where a verb is present.
Speaker 2: So in a sentence where you already stated a verb
Speaker 2: B is added to that sentence as part of the dialect. Also,
Speaker 2: the omission of B changes the phrase that's as it's
Speaker 2: being said. So we're going to use the example of
Speaker 2: he is working. I thought this was a good example
Speaker 2: as I was kind of studying this. This was what
Speaker 2: the one of the ones that was pulled up. So
Speaker 2: we might say in standard English, he is working. Right,
Speaker 2: You've let the verb is working, you know all that
Speaker 2: stuff like, there's all there's there's things going on there, right,
Speaker 2: So what I'm not an English major, but just know
Speaker 2: that that's that's generally a sentence structure. If I said
Speaker 2: he'd be working, that means that the person is regularly working.
Speaker 2: That's basically saying he's arguably working all the time, he
Speaker 2: is working consistently. That's what he be working means. But
Speaker 2: if I change it to say he working where I've
Speaker 2: omitted the B, that would suggest present tense, and that
Speaker 2: the person is actively and currently working. He is at
Speaker 2: work today, So you can see like just the addition
Speaker 2: and the omission of the habitual B can change the
Speaker 2: grammar structure inside of this. He is working is what
Speaker 2: we might normally hear. He be working means that they
Speaker 2: regularly work. He working means that he is currently at
Speaker 2: work at this moment.
Speaker 1: It's actually clearer, i think, than how English tends to
Speaker 1: work by itself, which is kind of funny. One of
Speaker 1: the things that makes English difficult is there's a whole
Speaker 1: class of B verbs. Many of the Romance languages or
Speaker 1: the Roman languages have these as well, but many languages
Speaker 1: don't have any B verbs. So B verbs are is,
Speaker 1: are was, or will be and am. Those are the
Speaker 1: B verbs, and they're all a conjugate version of the
Speaker 1: concept of to be bee. It makes a sentence actually
Speaker 1: more complicated to change what they are because it depends
Speaker 1: on whether it's a plural or singular noun, whether it's
Speaker 1: past or present tense or future tense, and it also
Speaker 1: changes the conjugation of the following verb that comes after
Speaker 1: the B verb. So it's a complex system that's very
Speaker 1: confusing and there are many languages that don't have those
Speaker 1: B verbs at all. I'm given to understand, and I'm
Speaker 1: not a scholar in this, that American Samoan does not
Speaker 1: use be verbs, and I'm sure that's just an example.
Speaker 1: I just happened to know someone who knows that language
Speaker 1: and speaks that language, and they're like, yeah, they don't
Speaker 1: really use be verbs. American sign language doesn't really use
Speaker 1: B verbs, and like they are a little bit superfluous,
Speaker 1: but I can see actually in using them, that is,
Speaker 1: in the way that they're used in AAVE actually kind
Speaker 1: of makes them more clear anyway, using or not using them.
Speaker 1: So anyway, be verbs are just complicated and they're not
Speaker 1: necessary to like communicate effectively. So it's an interesting aspect
Speaker 1: of language grammatically speaking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and in Spanish too, like B verbs are
Speaker 2: conjugated multiple ways, but there are two different general B
Speaker 2: verbs that are used to describe either like a permanent
Speaker 2: state or a temporary state. So you've got a star,
Speaker 2: which is like usually a zuastoi or ostead, well instead
Speaker 2: is you. But like when I say yosoi, if I
Speaker 2: say yosoi alto, right, I am tall, that is a
Speaker 2: permanent state, right, but if I say justoi canzado, where
Speaker 2: I'm saying I'm tired, that's a temporary state. So like,
Speaker 2: you might use different B verbs to describe either a
Speaker 2: permanent or temporary state, depending on how you're communicating. So like,
Speaker 2: even other languages have varying ways that B verbs are used.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. They be like that,
Speaker 1: ads be like that too. All right, we're back. We've
Speaker 1: been discussing the habitual b the use of B verbs
Speaker 1: as they occurrent across various languages, and as an aspect
Speaker 1: that makes AAVE somewhat different from English, I guess, and
Speaker 1: some other dialects. But the next one is called a
Speaker 1: copula deletion. So in grammar and linguistics, a copula is
Speaker 1: a connecting link between words. We see this often when
Speaker 1: using the B verb is to connect a noun to
Speaker 1: a verb, and in AAVE we might see an omission
Speaker 1: of a copula and a sentence she is smart could
Speaker 1: change to she smart, sort of as we were just discussing.
Speaker 1: But it doesn't always have to be just B verbs.
Speaker 2: And again, like I think that when we unpack the
Speaker 2: structure of the grammar of AAV, these are important features
Speaker 2: of it right, which is the habitual be the odmission
Speaker 2: of the habitual be the copula deletion. These are different
Speaker 2: examples of what it might look like. Another one is
Speaker 2: the stressed bin b N, which is also remote present perfect.
Speaker 2: So this refers to the use of bin when discussing
Speaker 2: an action that's already been completed. So something has already
Speaker 2: been done at this point in time, right, and you
Speaker 2: can kind of hear I'm already saying it's been done. Right,
Speaker 2: So if you take a sentence like I've already done that,
Speaker 2: it would change to I've been done that, Or if
Speaker 2: you use the sentence I've known her, you would change
Speaker 2: it to i've been knowing her. That's what that looks like.
Speaker 2: When we have the stressed bin been is like kind
Speaker 2: of like it's in the sentence. It's added to the sentence,
Speaker 2: but it like it emphasizes and actually describes different things.
Speaker 2: I've been knowing her means I've known her for a
Speaker 2: long time. You know, I've been done that means I've
Speaker 2: already completed this. It's in the past. It's something that
Speaker 2: we don't need to worry about anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the perfect tense often has the word have
Speaker 1: or had in it, and so this kind of just
Speaker 1: drops that word. But again that words only function is
Speaker 1: kind of an artifact of the fact that we have
Speaker 1: always used it that way, right like I have been
Speaker 1: or I had been. They don't necessarily communicate a lot,
Speaker 1: I mean, not nothing like there are like we use
Speaker 1: them in specific ways, but they are kind of the
Speaker 1: fact that like that's just how we spoke, but the
Speaker 1: word and that's what the perfect tenses are. I don't
Speaker 1: know why they're called perfect because I would just describe
Speaker 1: them as imperfect in terms of how functional they are, right,
Speaker 1: But anyway, that just another grammatical thing to know. Another
Speaker 1: one is multiple negation or negative concord. Multiple negations sound
Speaker 1: like what you'd think. This is the use of multiple
Speaker 1: negative words and a sentence to emphasize the apparent negation.
Speaker 1: An example here is I don't want anything changes to
Speaker 1: I don't want nothing, And I know weird Al did
Speaker 1: a bit about this, who's sort of making fun of
Speaker 1: Eminem where he said like, I ain't got nothing against
Speaker 1: nobody and he's like, wow, a triple negative. He's like,
Speaker 1: you do have something against somebody. But yeah, the logic
Speaker 1: there being that like when people treat it almost like
Speaker 1: symbolic logic, that it's like, negation means change direction from
Speaker 1: this part of the sentence to this part of the
Speaker 1: sentence instead, A double negation kind of in these sense
Speaker 1: means like it's a double emphasis on the fact that
Speaker 1: it's a negated yeah, right, which I understand why people
Speaker 1: might get confused about it, But it's not like it
Speaker 1: actually changes the meaning. You understand, like, I ain't got
Speaker 1: nothing to do with that is a double negation that
Speaker 1: I think you would actually hear someone who is not
Speaker 1: using AAV say and that is a double negation, And
Speaker 1: it is just to emphasize the negation itself, not to
Speaker 1: contradict oneself.
Speaker 2: Right. Well, I was thinking about this one a lot,
Speaker 2: because you know, I feel like I hear people correct
Speaker 2: negations a lot when people say something. You know, It's
Speaker 2: like I hear at least English teachers do this a lot.
Speaker 2: And I thought about this, and I was like, it
Speaker 2: doesn't change the understanding or the comprehension or the social
Speaker 2: context of the statement, right right, Like, Okay, if I
Speaker 2: said this, I don't want anything versus I don't want nothing,
Speaker 2: you understand that both of those things mean the same thing.
Speaker 2: So what you're doing is you're applying what could be
Speaker 2: argued as an arbitrary rule to a socially valid statement
Speaker 2: and now it's unnecessary. And I think when we talk
Speaker 2: about like social social engagement and social comprehension, so it's
Speaker 2: something I was just thinking about that as it was
Speaker 2: kind of like I don't want nothing is very clear.
Speaker 2: You understand what the person's saying. If you don't understand
Speaker 2: what the person is saying, then either you're trying not
Speaker 2: to understand what the person is saying, or you don't
Speaker 2: have a grasp enough on the social context to understand
Speaker 2: what they're saying. But like it was one of those
Speaker 2: things where I just kind of like, you know what
Speaker 2: they're saying. Now you're just being a jerk. It's like
Speaker 2: when people get into arguments and then they're instead of
Speaker 2: arguing a logical point, they just correct people's grammar. Sure,
Speaker 2: it's like you understand what they're saying, Like you don't
Speaker 2: need to be that person, like you already understand what
Speaker 2: they're saying, you.
Speaker 1: Know, And I think there's a place for intentionally doing
Speaker 1: this where you intend to use the double negation to
Speaker 1: negate the second part, meaning like I could say something
Speaker 1: like I'm not not hungry, and I'm basically using the
Speaker 1: first knot to negate the second knot, and you could
Speaker 1: use it in that intentional way. But again, I think
Speaker 1: even when we do that, we tend to say in
Speaker 1: a way that where we use the inflection of our
Speaker 1: voice to emphasize how we're using the negation itself, right,
Speaker 1: And so again you get from context what is being
Speaker 1: meant there. And I think people might hear like, well,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have to depend on context, and I would
Speaker 1: argue you are always depending on contact. There are a
Speaker 1: lot of things that we say that are different heard
Speaker 1: versus written down versus spoken versus like, however, they're communicated
Speaker 1: and said in different languages, and like I would argue,
Speaker 1: most of the things we say, we're depending on context
Speaker 1: for those things to make any amount of sense. And
Speaker 1: in particular, if I were to just shout a bunch
Speaker 1: of random words at you that are decontextualized, you'd be
Speaker 1: very confused. I'm like, electric boogo loogobooo, and you're like, okay,
Speaker 1: I understood part of that, I think, but and obviously
Speaker 1: those aren't even really words. But but the point being
Speaker 1: that like decontextualized words don't mean anything either, So it's
Speaker 1: it's always going to be part of the conversation of
Speaker 1: what's actually happening. You just use that. And of course
Speaker 1: we have things like as I mentioned, our inflections and whatnot.
Speaker 2: Right, I was thinking about that with the I don't
Speaker 2: want nothing, right like, if I said I don't want
Speaker 2: nothing like, that's like pretty chill, pretty. But if I
Speaker 2: said I don't want nothing like, that tells me that
Speaker 2: that person is pretty maybe upset or irritated or they
Speaker 2: don't like you enough, like you know, I could see
Speaker 2: there's a lot of things that could come out of
Speaker 2: that just by the emphasis, and I think that really matters.
Speaker 2: But again that's social clues, that's context and that does
Speaker 2: that does matter. That makes a huge difference.
Speaker 1: You could also say I don't want nothing and that
Speaker 1: way like that that actually does use the first negation
Speaker 1: right to change the direction of the second one. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, again and it's contextual, but you would you
Speaker 1: would get from that that situation like what you're communicating.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. Another critical feature of AVE is something called
Speaker 2: final consonant cluster reduction. Now, in the case where words
Speaker 2: are blended where they have a blended constant sound. Like
Speaker 2: let's use the examples passed in hand AV will see
Speaker 2: the omission of the second consonant sound. For example, hand
Speaker 2: becomes hand or past becomes pass, So instead of saying past,
Speaker 2: you drop the T sound, or in hand you drop
Speaker 2: the D sound, and it's hand or pass and and
Speaker 2: that's just kind of a feature of the dialect. And
Speaker 2: you might be going, well, why you know, why are
Speaker 2: we talking about this, Like, like it's one of those
Speaker 2: things where I've you see this final consonant cluster reduction.
Speaker 2: This is actually pretty common in a lot of dialects,
Speaker 2: not specifically AVE, But what it is is in the
Speaker 2: key feature here is that you've got a dialect that
Speaker 2: has a feature of other dialects inside of it. So
Speaker 2: it is worth accounting for in the understanding of linguistics.
Speaker 1: Well, and those consonant blends are they're kind of hard
Speaker 1: to make. They're hard to teach, They're hard for kids
Speaker 1: to learn how to do. Like eventually we get fluent
Speaker 1: at doing them, but it does take a lot of
Speaker 1: learning because you have to position your mouth in such
Speaker 1: a way that you're making multiple hard sounds consecutively. I
Speaker 1: mean that's tricky, and it's you know, we see some
Speaker 1: Nordic languages where they've got like eleven consonants in a row,
Speaker 1: and we're like, I don't even I don't even know
Speaker 1: where to start with that, right, Like how do how
Speaker 1: do I make those sounds in that order? And to
Speaker 1: them it seems fairly straightforward, but we're looking at it
Speaker 1: like a little bit fuddled and scared of like how
Speaker 1: we're possibly going to make all those sounds happen. But like,
Speaker 1: we also do a version of this all the time,
Speaker 1: so it actually kind of makes sense to try and
Speaker 1: separate the consonant sounds or drop them altogether, because they're
Speaker 1: hard to put all those sounds into like one consecutive
Speaker 1: string of sounds, right, And that's why I think you
Speaker 1: often will even hear kids struggle with this who are
Speaker 1: like learning English as their native language to have a
Speaker 1: little bit of trouble making some of those sounds come together.
Speaker 1: As you said, I think of like the word contempt
Speaker 1: has three concept sounds at the end MP, and those
Speaker 1: are like they're fortunately right at the front of your mouth,
Speaker 1: so they kind of can kind of go umped together.
Speaker 1: But it does take like a specific orientation because you
Speaker 1: actually have to go at your lips, out your lips,
Speaker 1: and back to your teeth right to pronounce it. And
Speaker 1: I think you see this in similar other ways that
Speaker 1: this has maybe shown up. I'm not sure if if
Speaker 1: we'll get to but like in the word ask becomes
Speaker 1: acts really commonly, and I always felt like it was
Speaker 1: harder to say acts than ask. But if you actually
Speaker 1: think about it, like you start with your mouth open
Speaker 1: ah to a case sound where your mouth is still open,
Speaker 1: but you move the concept to the back to and
Speaker 1: now your mouth is closed, it actually does kind of
Speaker 1: follow a more a progression of like front to back,
Speaker 1: open to closed as opposed to front closed, open again
Speaker 1: or open closed, open again, and the way that you
Speaker 1: normally pronounce it. So there's there's probably some and if
Speaker 1: we have any like speech path people who are probably
Speaker 1: yelling at their ses and like try and try to
Speaker 1: explain this all to us, I'm sorry, feel free to
Speaker 1: write in and tell us what we're getting right, what
Speaker 1: we're getting wrong about this. But I'm thinking about sort
Speaker 1: of the tongue and glottal placements that make some of
Speaker 1: these sounds easier or harder to do when you've got
Speaker 1: a look consecutively.
Speaker 2: Yeah, most definitely one of the words I was thinking of,
Speaker 2: Like I was thinking about don't sometimes become don't like
Speaker 2: like you don't really like you don't really emphasize that,
Speaker 2: or like advertisement, We don't even go that far. We
Speaker 2: just say at.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So much of English is like modern contemporary English
Speaker 1: has so many portmanteaus and and then like words that
Speaker 1: have just dropped sections of words all a tay it
Speaker 1: Like who actually says miscellaneous anymore?
Speaker 2: We say misk yeah, or.
Speaker 1: If you say anything at all, And there's there's so
Speaker 1: many like that where it's like I don't even know
Speaker 1: if people actually know what the original word was, especially
Speaker 1: people struggle.
Speaker 3: With yeah express espresso.
Speaker 2: Like right boom, yeah.
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot that it's just like we
Speaker 1: just have a weird language, you.
Speaker 2: Know, it's a particularly difficult language. Too many words.
Speaker 1: So we were deconstructing a lot of the sort of
Speaker 1: grammar and characteristic components of what makes a ave distinct.
Speaker 1: So let's get into again sort of unpacking and I
Speaker 1: say again because we do this every episode, not because
Speaker 1: we've already done it in this episode, right, but unpacking
Speaker 1: the sort of scientific view here and we're thinking about
Speaker 1: this psychologically speaking, behaviorally speaking, how do we start to
Speaker 1: think about and unpack this in that way as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, just like any dialect, any language structure is
Speaker 2: going to be shaped by local or regional factors, terms
Speaker 2: common to the area, what matters to folks. I mean,
Speaker 2: we've talked about the Inuit folks and how they have
Speaker 2: many words for snow and how it's used. We've like,
Speaker 2: just what we find is that language itself is always
Speaker 2: shaped up by local needs, what's relevant to the folks
Speaker 2: that are in that area, and a lot of times
Speaker 2: those social contexts that shape up and kind of create
Speaker 2: new words and slang and whatnot too. I mean, like
Speaker 2: the dictionary. We talk about the dictionary, talked about it before,
Speaker 2: but like terms like creepy were invented, because every word
Speaker 2: is invented, but creepy was invented and became a very
Speaker 2: popular word and ended up in the dictionary, and that
Speaker 2: was simply because of social context. Right. So, so language
Speaker 2: and dialect is always shaped up by this.
Speaker 1: Stuff and it changes. It just constantly, constantly changes. I
Speaker 1: mean you even read books from Native English speakers from
Speaker 1: two hundred years ago and they are challenging to read, yes,
Speaker 1: because the version of English that they used two hundred
Speaker 1: years ago is just it's getting far away from the
Speaker 1: kind of English we're using today. And that's just like,
Speaker 1: that is just how language is. Language just changes, it
Speaker 1: just does, it always has, it always will right, and
Speaker 1: there's really no point in trying to like isolate it
Speaker 1: to one specific version of itself. The only point of
Speaker 1: language really is to be able to communicate effectively with
Speaker 1: your audience.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: As long as it's doing that, it is doing it right.
Speaker 1: There is really no wrong way to do it aside
Speaker 1: from ineffective communication. And like, the argument is not let's
Speaker 1: have everyone on Earth speak the same language, although that
Speaker 1: would solve some problems. The argument is like, let's just
Speaker 1: be able to move with the like roll with the punches,
Speaker 1: like let it flow and figure out how we're going
Speaker 1: to adapt as it changes. And there I think are
Speaker 1: even broader conversations about this in terms of like there's
Speaker 1: been discussions people have had about how, like how do
Speaker 1: we make signage for things that are like super dangerous,
Speaker 1: like where we've buried nuclear waste for example, that like
Speaker 1: if something happens a thousand years from now, will people
Speaker 1: be able to read and understand the signage that we've
Speaker 1: left because it might be so far away from where
Speaker 1: their language is that it doesn't mean anything. So it's like,
Speaker 1: can we are pictographs clear enough? Or will that look
Speaker 1: esoteric and bizarre and they won't know what it means?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Like will we keep updating the signage as the language
Speaker 1: evolves so that it remains clear? Or like what if
Speaker 1: these things are lost and they find them and there's
Speaker 1: no way there's no record to get back to what
Speaker 1: they once communicated, Like can we find this when we're
Speaker 1: uncovering artifacts of language all the time that we can't
Speaker 1: just translate directly what people were saying because we it's
Speaker 1: been lost in some capacity. So anyway, the whole point
Speaker 1: is just that, like, language changes, and we just want
Speaker 1: to do our best to communicate and continue to communicate
Speaker 1: with each other and to a point communicate throughout time
Speaker 1: like over time, but have messages remain. But that was
Speaker 1: a huge side tangent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, you're good. So here's the thing when we
Speaker 2: talk about science and how linguistics worked, and we've kind
Speaker 2: of already alluded to this, but linguistics and language are
Speaker 2: often used as a means to other or gate key
Speaker 2: people based on demographic characteristics. We know this, so villainizing
Speaker 2: something like aave is a tactic that is often used
Speaker 2: by white supremacist systems to prevent black folks who use
Speaker 2: aave from getting into spaces where they deserve to be
Speaker 2: because of white supremacy and white power. And so this
Speaker 2: is apparent when arguments online. You see this a lot.
Speaker 2: Arguments online are often carved down to pointing out someone's
Speaker 2: poor grammar instead of making legitimate arguments. And I kind
Speaker 2: of mentioned that earlier. But what we have found is,
Speaker 2: like studies have shown that something as simple as a
Speaker 2: name can prevent people from entering certain employment opportunities because
Speaker 2: of differences in or annunciation or pronunciation. So like grammar
Speaker 2: is also just another one of those things. Linguistics is
Speaker 2: another one of those things that is used to prevent
Speaker 2: people from getting into space as they deserve to be in.
Speaker 2: It's just a way to gatekeep, and we know that
Speaker 2: to be true from just something as simple as accents.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very much so, and definitely is being used I
Speaker 1: think in that way in this country is like is
Speaker 1: an attempt to sort of gatekeep and other and social reinforcement,
Speaker 1: which is to say, like the way we continue to
Speaker 1: select and accept our communication through cultural selection continues to
Speaker 1: evolve in language over time. As I was same before.
Speaker 1: At this point, we're talking about a dialect that has
Speaker 1: already evolved over a couple hundred years, like this has
Speaker 1: been going on, and so it really has just shaped
Speaker 1: up to be its own dialect version here and cultural
Speaker 1: and regional factors are going to act upon the language
Speaker 1: used and shape it into the unique thing that it
Speaker 1: is and will become. And that's also true of English
Speaker 1: by the way, Like although our language, like every language,
Speaker 1: we could read something from two hundred years ago and
Speaker 1: it is challenging to read. We can still read it,
Speaker 1: and for the most part, I think we'll understand it.
Speaker 1: But it is challenging, and it's only going to continue
Speaker 1: to grow increasingly distinct from us over time because like
Speaker 1: all languages do this, they just kind of evolve and
Speaker 1: change and shape each other in particular. So like sometimes
Speaker 1: languages will kind of converge, sometimes they'll kind of diverge,
Speaker 1: sometimes they'll kind of just run in parallel to each other. Right,
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter ultimate Like there again, there's not
Speaker 1: a right or wrong way to do this here, it's
Speaker 1: just are we communicating with each other?
Speaker 2: Right? Absolutely another thing too, I think that's really fascinating,
Speaker 2: and this is maybe something this might be its own
Speaker 2: episode one day. But language development and dialects are also
Speaker 2: they could be considered a form of resistance. So ownership
Speaker 2: of language allows oppress groups to reclaim identities and isolate oppressers.
Speaker 2: So with the development is something like AAVE. One of
Speaker 2: the kind of side effects I won't say this is
Speaker 2: kind of like the ultimate goal of it, but one
Speaker 2: of the side effects of it is that it kind
Speaker 2: of iced out and kept out people who did not
Speaker 2: belong to the n group, to the group that spoke
Speaker 2: AAVE and used that dialect. It isolated people who were
Speaker 2: their oppressors. And so functionally it allows members of the
Speaker 2: community to communicate without monitoring. And we saw this a lot,
Speaker 2: especially among black slaves in the United States. Resistance movements can
Speaker 2: use unique language and unique dialects to share messages or
Speaker 2: write songs or poetry or poems about this and using
Speaker 2: this language that is indecipherable from the oppressors. And actually
Speaker 2: you see this a lot in the United States and
Speaker 2: at Black America where you talk about spirituals and sorrow songs.
Speaker 2: So there's one song called Wade in the Water that
Speaker 2: I really enjoy in terms of like the history, I
Speaker 2: think it's really unique. But what Wade in the Water
Speaker 2: did was it shared messages. It was a spiritual as
Speaker 2: a sorrow song that was shared among groups of slaves
Speaker 2: and slave peoples, I should say, and they would give
Speaker 2: hints on how to escape and how to like get free.
Speaker 2: So like in the lyrics, it says, wade in the water,
Speaker 2: Wade in the water, children, wage in the water. Gods
Speaker 2: are going to trouble the water. See that host all
Speaker 2: dressed in white. God's going to trouble the water. The
Speaker 2: leader looks like in Israel, like God's going to trouble
Speaker 2: the water. See that band all dressed in red. And
Speaker 2: then you know there's kind of the refrain of God's
Speaker 2: going to trouble the water throughout it looks like the
Speaker 2: band Moses led. Look over yonder, what do you see
Speaker 2: the Holy Ghost of coming on me? If you don't
Speaker 2: believe I've been redeemed, just follow me down to the
Speaker 2: Jordan's stream. And when you hear that, you go, oh,
Speaker 2: that's biblical, it's lovely, and it does align with a
Speaker 2: lot of that. But essentially what this was saying was
Speaker 2: if you escape via the water, through the streams and
Speaker 2: the rivers, the dogs can't chase you. Like this is
Speaker 2: a way that you can escape some of these places.
Speaker 2: And so just like I bring this up because the
Speaker 2: song itself is not part of av itself, but is
Speaker 2: an example of how language and dialect and all that
Speaker 2: can be used to help support oppressed peoples.
Speaker 1: We actually talked about this a little bit in our
Speaker 1: episode on English accents and the Cockney rhyming slang, which
Speaker 1: was developed specifically so that they could communicate with each
Speaker 1: other in a way that couldn't necessarily be understood readily
Speaker 1: by passers by. And they were among sort of the
Speaker 1: lower class people who are sort of like hockeying their
Speaker 1: wares on the street and whatnot and doing their best
Speaker 1: to get by and could have been otherwise oppressed by
Speaker 1: the people who had more authority and more power. So
Speaker 1: they tried to essentially have a system to communicate that
Speaker 1: would allow them to speak freely to one another without
Speaker 1: being expressly understood by some people who might otherwise try
Speaker 1: and do them harm. So yeah, I think it is
Speaker 1: an interesting way to sort of form those resistance, those
Speaker 1: like unifying aspects of a community driven by necessity that
Speaker 1: turn into a dialect on all its own. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: we do have some interesting tidbits to get to as well,
Speaker 1: and that does not include ads because those are not interesting,
Speaker 1: but they are tidbits.
Speaker 2: They're tids.
Speaker 1: All right, we're back. Let's discuss some of the some
Speaker 1: other sort of interesting things here and about aave. So
Speaker 1: many examples of aaev are aa V I'm gonna try
Speaker 1: and say that really clearly are found in popular music,
Speaker 1: including Nina Simones It bes that way sometime, or Vera
Speaker 1: Hall's trouble so hard, specifically the line don't nobody know
Speaker 1: my trouble but God, And that's got that negative concord
Speaker 1: that we discussed earlier.
Speaker 2: Yep, you got two Boxer Corps straight ball on where
Speaker 2: he says and getting ghosts on the five ozho. The
Speaker 2: five zero meaning police sows like a particular term in
Speaker 2: the dialect used to describe police and specific to that
Speaker 2: area California. So slang turns into a particular word inside
Speaker 2: of the dialect, now becomes part of the vernacular and
Speaker 2: here we are. It's it's widely used in AAV.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then ll cool jays control myself. The line
Speaker 1: quote she said her name Shaida. That's an example of
Speaker 1: the absence of the copula that we described.
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, yeah. So instead of saying she said her
Speaker 2: name is Shaida, right, Yeah, just to kind of like
Speaker 2: really highlight that. Another thing. Much of gen z or
Speaker 2: TikTok slang, which it's just it's good, It's gonna be
Speaker 2: so funny saying this stuff because I just feel like,
Speaker 2: as a middle aged man, I shouldn't be saying we're
Speaker 2: so old. But a lot of TikTok slang and gen
Speaker 2: z slang is derived from a V as well as
Speaker 2: queer and southern slang. If you hear your kids talking
Speaker 2: and it doesn't make any sense, it's likely some slang
Speaker 2: from somewhere, But that slang is derived from not only
Speaker 2: AV but queer and southern slang. So a couple of
Speaker 2: them include slag period or period. Right. I know you
Speaker 2: change the end sound on it, don't my daughter. My
Speaker 2: daughter doesn't listen to this, but if she listens, she
Speaker 2: would be so embarrassed.
Speaker 3: Right now, I think everyone listening to us is a
Speaker 3: little even myself, I'm a little embarrassing sense right, So
Speaker 3: no cap fina bet t receides throwing shade.
Speaker 2: This is all slang that comes from these like marginalized groups,
Speaker 2: ave spaces, queer spaces, Like slang is coming from those spaces.
Speaker 2: They're not They're not generally made up by affluent white folks.
Speaker 1: Word probably word is what the word is one yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, and sick yeah, but yeah, I mean the
Speaker 1: things they developed changes over time. Just like ASL, as
Speaker 1: we mentioned it's its own language, there is black ASL
Speaker 1: developed in black deaf schools, is a dialect of ASL,
Speaker 1: just like AAVE is a dialect of English for those
Speaker 1: of you who don't know. ASL stands for American Sign Language,
Speaker 1: so it stands to reason that there would be dialects.
Speaker 1: Do have a plan for this as an upcoming episode
Speaker 1: in the near ish future ASL, so be on the
Speaker 1: lookout for that. We're want to get into it.
Speaker 2: Can't wait.
Speaker 1: It is kind of interesting too, and we'll talk about
Speaker 1: this more in that. But like, there are very regional
Speaker 1: differences in ASL for how some words are signed that
Speaker 1: sometimes they're very different from each other, and some of
Speaker 1: them are you know, sort of minor differences, and some
Speaker 1: of them is just a sign that has changed over time.
Speaker 1: But ASL, like its own language, has also evolved. Anyway,
Speaker 1: I'm getting off off track. There are these dialects also
Speaker 1: of ASL, in this case example black ASL, but it's
Speaker 1: just like any other dialect of language.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't wait to talk about ASL because I
Speaker 2: learn that I have a Southern drawl in sign language
Speaker 2: from an interpreter and told me I sound like I'm
Speaker 2: from deep Georgia apparently with the way that my ASL is,
Speaker 2: So I can't wait to talk about that.
Speaker 1: Cool good to know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even though my family's from Pittsburgh and I have
Speaker 2: a more northern accident except for when I say, y'all. Now,
Speaker 2: av isn't the only black dialect and spoken in the US,
Speaker 2: And I think that's also something really valuable to know.
Speaker 2: Gulla or Geechee or gee Chi, I think it's Geechee
Speaker 2: is spoken in South Carolina and Georgia, so that is
Speaker 2: one dialect that is kind of unique to that area region.
Speaker 2: And there's also Louisiana Creole, which is a French lexified
Speaker 2: language and primarily spoken in Louisiana and parts of Gulf
Speaker 2: Coast Florida. So when we talk about how dialects show up,
Speaker 2: Louisiana Creole is very unique and very interesting because it's
Speaker 2: got that French kind of flavor to it. As a
Speaker 2: matter of fact, though we the company I work at,
Speaker 2: we get a lot of folks on the West coast
Speaker 2: of Florida who speak Creole, a version of Creole, and
Speaker 2: we have to enlist interpreters, and there are interpreter services
Speaker 2: for folks. It's be Creole for many funding sources because
Speaker 2: of the amount of folks that do it. So there
Speaker 2: are resources that exist for dialects like Louisiana Creole, but
Speaker 2: it's so interesting that there's not for ave, you know harder.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would guess that maybe it is harder to
Speaker 1: pin it down to a specific race, so it doesn't
Speaker 1: have the same force of sort of racism behind it
Speaker 1: that would otherwise be a campaign against it. So it's
Speaker 1: like just more accepted. Even though it's kind of funny
Speaker 1: to think about that Creole was one of the influences
Speaker 1: over a ve like it's part of how it developed.
Speaker 1: So anyway, that's where we're at, folks, that's where we're at.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's one of those things where the more
Speaker 2: we talk about it, the less it makes sense. But
Speaker 2: you know, because you just go like, why can't we
Speaker 2: just why can't we just move forward with this? But
Speaker 2: people just really have a hard time whenever it comes
Speaker 2: to you know, we'll say it bluntly, white folks in
Speaker 2: power have a really hard time with black folks and
Speaker 2: unfortunately the United States or people of color, and it's
Speaker 2: just really unfortunate. And the only reason that we were
Speaker 2: doing this episode is because this has come up in
Speaker 2: those spaces, Like I mean, aav is in its own right,
Speaker 2: unique and powerful and it's its own identity and it's
Speaker 2: it's worth highlighting. But the reason that we even started
Speaker 2: talking about this is because of the controversy in the
Speaker 2: United States that came up with it. And this is
Speaker 2: why it came to the forefront and kind of like
Speaker 2: why we wanted to study it a little bit more
Speaker 2: and understand it for what it is, not for it's controversy.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I do think I'll try and play a little bit
Speaker 1: Devil's advocate here just to help I think if people
Speaker 1: have questions, I'm trying to anticipate what those might be.
Speaker 1: And I think one of the questions or thoughts that
Speaker 1: someone might have is to or trying to understand where
Speaker 1: a hesitancy to embrace this as a dialect might come from.
Speaker 1: And I'm guessing that there are people who hear aave
Speaker 1: and understand so much of it sounds like the English
Speaker 1: they're used to speaking that they feel like they're like,
Speaker 1: I get it, but I don't, and the it's like,
Speaker 1: how am I supposed to interpret this? Because it's like
Speaker 1: I do recognize these words, but I don't really understand
Speaker 1: what's being said, and that there's probably just a lack
Speaker 1: of comprehension about how to interact with this unique dialect
Speaker 1: that exists, and also the fact that I think they
Speaker 1: probably don't recognize that it's its own dialect. And the
Speaker 1: other question I would guess that people might have is
Speaker 1: if they haven't necessarily learned aave, should they try to?
Speaker 1: Should they learn just to be able to understand it,
Speaker 1: or should they try and speak it? Like what would
Speaker 1: what's the recommendation as far as like what they should
Speaker 1: do to interact with people who primarily speak using aave
Speaker 1: and not knowing like does it feel like it's racist
Speaker 1: for them to then try and use that same kind
Speaker 1: of language setup when they're communicating. And again I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that like that doesn't have its own sort of
Speaker 1: problematic sources in some spaces, but trying to understand I
Speaker 1: think where people might hear this and be like Okay,
Speaker 1: maybe where they're fully on board with like Okay, this
Speaker 1: is its own dialect. We can be fine with that,
Speaker 1: now what and sort of it's just sort of where
Speaker 1: to go from that? So do you have any thoughts
Speaker 1: on that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that many times people struggle
Speaker 2: with something like this because they don't comprehend it or
Speaker 2: they're afraid, right, Like they're afraid of being isolated, they're
Speaker 2: afraid of Like it's if you've ever been in a
Speaker 2: space where you don't speak a language and everybody around
Speaker 2: you is speaking a language, and you don't have understanding
Speaker 2: of what they're saying, like, it can be really disorienting,
Speaker 2: but it can also be very like like you kind
Speaker 2: of go like, oh, I feel left out, and I
Speaker 2: think people, you know, I think that's I think that's
Speaker 2: part of the conversation, is that people will feel left
Speaker 2: out if they can't understand what is being said.
Speaker 1: Good point.
Speaker 2: And when I say can't understand being said, Like when
Speaker 2: I say that, I simply mean they just don't speak
Speaker 2: the language. That does not mean that the person who's
Speaker 2: speaking the dialect needs to conform to the listener's language. Rather,
Speaker 2: it just means that, Like, you know, it's it's important
Speaker 2: understand that. That's so much of where I think discrimination
Speaker 2: comes from is like that space of I don't understand this,
Speaker 2: it's different from me, so I can't allow this to happen.
Speaker 2: And honestly, I see that more than anything else.
Speaker 1: Very fair and that's helpful too, But you know, I
Speaker 1: just wanted to be able to sort of land on
Speaker 1: people hearing this and maybe not sure what to do next,
Speaker 1: and so wanted to sort of have that.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I think education is the solution for everything, right,
Speaker 2: like spending time studying, spending time like reading about it,
Speaker 2: spending time like really diving into it. I mean this
Speaker 2: is as we were getting into this episode, Like I
Speaker 2: learned so much just from doing some of the research
Speaker 2: on this, Like I understood the AAV was its own dialect,
Speaker 2: but I just didn't understand the depth and breadth of it, right,
Speaker 2: Like because growing up in the nineties, you always heard
Speaker 2: that it was this thing and it was kind of
Speaker 2: always like dismissed. But the truth is, like it's got
Speaker 2: a lot more power to it, And I think that
Speaker 2: when you spend time understanding it from that perspective, Like
Speaker 2: I mean with you spending time studying asl it's kind
Speaker 2: of the same thing. Like the more you understand and
Speaker 2: the more you learn about it, the more powerful it becomes,
Speaker 2: and the more important for the community it becomes, and
Speaker 2: the more welcoming of it you become, and the more
Speaker 2: you know, Like there's so many things that happen with
Speaker 2: education around it. So I think if you're if you're
Speaker 2: somebody who is not sure what to do, I think
Speaker 2: that's the thing. It's like, I think the education is
Speaker 2: just spending time reading about it, learning about it, understanding it,
Speaker 2: like holding it in your hand and turning it around
Speaker 2: and looking at every facet. I think that's really where
Speaker 2: you go, Yeah, trying to get immersed.
Speaker 1: I think if you want to try and like understand it,
Speaker 1: like try and see if you can find a place
Speaker 1: like watch watch content creators who use aave and get
Speaker 1: just like get immersed in sort of how that's the
Speaker 1: developed to see how it is done. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: that was one of the recommendations I saw in Learning
Speaker 1: ASL is like look at deaf creators, like look at
Speaker 1: what they're doing, watch their stuff, and use that to
Speaker 1: help like learn more about the culture and the various
Speaker 1: dialects and like all of that sort of thing is like.
Speaker 1: And then obviously if you if you have people in
Speaker 1: your life, like you know, go spend time hanging out
Speaker 1: with them, like practice practice, practice practice, use it, use
Speaker 1: it exactly, exactly awesome. Well, we do have some fun things.
Speaker 1: We end with some recommendations, and we actually have a
Speaker 1: sort of listener mail a couple of them, and so
Speaker 1: we'll get to some of those things. If you're joining
Speaker 1: us for the first time, you may not know all
Speaker 1: of those things, but we'll get to those as just
Speaker 1: in just a minute. But first I have to get
Speaker 1: through the credits. But first I have to get through
Speaker 1: some ads. Ah, Okay, we're back. As I said, we
Speaker 1: have a piece of listener mail and we have some
Speaker 1: recommendations to do. But first I'll say thank you to
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're you're beautiful and lovely.
Speaker 1: Also, thank you to my team of people without whom
Speaker 1: I could not make this podcast writing and fact checking
Speaker 1: from Shane and myself. Thanks for your great notes.
Speaker 2: Shane, Hey, thanks for letting me do this one. This
Speaker 2: was fun.
Speaker 1: Our social media coordinator is Emma Wilson, and our audio
Speaker 1: technician God Emperor producer extraordinaire is Justin. Who is Thank
Speaker 1: you Justin.
Speaker 2: He's the best. He is the best. Well.
Speaker 1: We had a couple of comments. Actually these weren't directly emails,
Speaker 1: but a couple of comments on some episodes on Spot
Speaker 1: and they're fairly short, so I'm just going to do
Speaker 1: them both. These both come from a listener, Natalie Neil.
Speaker 1: I think I'm reading that right. And in response to
Speaker 1: our mini on designer Genes g E. N Ees, they write,
Speaker 1: diversity is what has driven our success since the beginning.
Speaker 1: We need all kinds of humans with every kind of
Speaker 1: different mind, knowledge, outlooks, and functioning brains with three acclamation points.
Speaker 1: Totally agree. Yeah that sentiment, love it. Thank you for
Speaker 1: sharing that as well. It's perfect.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: They also commented on our mini that is about being carsick.
Speaker 1: They said a huge cause of motion sickness that you
Speaker 1: missed is because of the crystals in our inner ear
Speaker 1: or inner ear is what controls our equilibrium, which controls
Speaker 1: our balance and spatial awareness to our bodies are in
Speaker 1: relation to other people, places and things. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: actually didn't. I didn't see that when I was doing
Speaker 1: when I was looking at the episode or the research.
Speaker 2: For that episode.
Speaker 1: I'm curious now to look into it more and learn
Speaker 1: more about that. But I appreciate you sharing your insights
Speaker 1: from that as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's really fun. So my dad has vertigo,
Speaker 2: and that's always something comes up with vertigo is the
Speaker 2: crystals in your ears, and so like it's funny to
Speaker 2: think that, Like, it's interesting to think that you have
Speaker 2: this thing that is like, you know, crystals, it's biological,
Speaker 2: it's in your ear. It's something that like can if
Speaker 2: it's just off a little bit, it throws everything off,
Speaker 2: you know. So it's worth it's worth diving into that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I think that's it. So transitioning to recommendations.
Speaker 2: Let's do it recommendations.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm recommending a thing that might have me lose
Speaker 1: my card carrying status as a vegan, but I'm recommending
Speaker 1: a a thing called zvo. These are electrical little bug
Speaker 1: traps that you can plug into your house and will
Speaker 1: attract insects to them and they get stuck there and
Speaker 1: then they die. Oh, we've had a huge issue with
Speaker 1: fruit flies in my house and there's nothing that seems
Speaker 1: to make them go away or stop what they're doing,
Speaker 1: and they're destroying our food. So we've gotten some zvos
Speaker 1: and they are pretty effective. Now, the commercials say they're like,
Speaker 1: and I forget what percentage they give. I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: say eighty percent, even though there might be something else.
Speaker 1: But they say they're like eighty percent better at catching bugs.
Speaker 1: I'm like, better than what?
Speaker 2: Yeah, better than nothing? Like? Right?
Speaker 1: But they're actually really they're super easy to use. You
Speaker 1: it's a little just like a sticky mess you put
Speaker 1: behind a screen. It has a nice little purple light.
Speaker 1: Plug it into an outlet and it just kind of
Speaker 1: does this thing from there. They're pretty effective. I gotta say, like,
Speaker 1: we haven't completely solved the issue, but it definitely significantly
Speaker 1: reduced how much how much of a problem it was.
Speaker 1: So if you're struggling with things like fruit flies, ZVO
Speaker 1: will pretty effective at helping with that situation.
Speaker 2: All right, Interesting, we have these little sticky things that
Speaker 2: go in the plants and they're like these okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: they look like little like flowers and those have been
Speaker 2: pretty harpy too, so okay, good to know. Yeah, pretty interesting.
Speaker 2: All right. I am going to recommend a comic book series.
Speaker 2: This is a new comic book series. It is called
Speaker 2: Absolute Batman, and it is so rad. So I think
Speaker 2: here's the thing. When it comes to comic books and
Speaker 2: you have like long histories with like particular characters, it's
Speaker 2: very difficult to do something new with them. Sure, and
Speaker 2: so you know, Batman has said I think it's like
Speaker 2: seventy five years maybe longer, maybe close to one hundred
Speaker 2: years now, same thing with Superman, like just just this
Speaker 2: like lengthy time in comics, and so you can't you
Speaker 2: kind of go like, well, what else can you do
Speaker 2: with these? So Scott Snyder decided to tell a new story.
Speaker 2: This is a retelling of his origin story and kind
Speaker 2: of an all new world. And Batman is a civil engineer,
Speaker 2: blue collar civil engineer. He is not wealthy, and he
Speaker 2: has taught himself all of the things that go along
Speaker 2: with being Batman and being really resourceful. So like he's
Speaker 2: got the same kind of like resourcefulness, except what makes
Speaker 2: him different is that he's not rich, so he's like
Speaker 2: kind of having to figure out how to engineer all
Speaker 2: of his stuff. He's incredibly intelligent, but he's also like
Speaker 2: six foot nine and four hundred something pounds. He's a
Speaker 2: monster in this and just brutal, just brutal. One of
Speaker 2: my favorite panels is he just beats up a group
Speaker 2: of white supremacists. There's a dude that tries to do
Speaker 2: the you know, the salute, and the first thing he
Speaker 2: does is just snap this guy's arm in half, and
Speaker 2: he's like, that's it. That's that's what happens. That's what
Speaker 2: that's what happens when you do this. It's cool because
Speaker 2: like he kind of like his villains, like the Riddler,
Speaker 2: Killer Croc Penguin, they all are as friends rather than
Speaker 2: being like villains in Arkham or in Gotham. And it's
Speaker 2: just done really well. Nick Drigoda does the art as well,
Speaker 2: and his art is really cool for if you've ever
Speaker 2: read East of West, so it's really cool. My favorite
Speaker 2: thing is that he carries around like a like a
Speaker 2: pole or like a pipe, and he could take the
Speaker 2: emblem off of his batsuit and just now it's a
Speaker 2: battle axe. He like attaches it to the pipe and
Speaker 2: now he's got a battle axe if you will, and
Speaker 2: it's just awesome. Yeah, it's you will. Yeah, it's just
Speaker 2: it's just really really cool. So super dark, super gruesome,
Speaker 2: but like a really cool take on the character. Wow.
Speaker 1: Fun, Okay, very cool. All right. So that's Zo insects
Speaker 1: catcher thing and then absolute Batman comic sounds really fun.
Speaker 1: Those are the recommendations. If you'd like to tell us
Speaker 1: your thoughts on those things, or on anything we said
Speaker 1: about aave, you can reach us directly by emailing us
Speaker 1: at info at wwdwwdpodcast dot com, or reach us on
Speaker 1: the social media platforms, and we do look forward to
Speaker 1: hearing from you. Yeah, I think that is all you
Speaker 1: have to say about this topic. Those are anything that
Speaker 1: I missed or you'd like to add before we say
Speaker 1: our goodbyes.
Speaker 2: Nope, not the moment.
Speaker 1: Thank you all for listening.
Speaker 2: This is Abraham and this is Shane.
Speaker 1: We are out.
Speaker 2: Bye.
Speaker 4: You've been listening to Why we Do what We do.
Speaker 4: You can learn more about this and other episodes by
Speaker 4: going to wwd wwdpodcast dot com. Thanks for listening, and
Speaker 4: we hope you have an awesome day.
Speaker 1: The next one is called a copula deletion. Is it
Speaker 1: copula deletion?
Speaker 2: I think it's copula deletion, but we can go with
Speaker 2: Francis Ford Copila deletion.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it does like just curcula. It looks
Speaker 1: like copyla. I don't think I'm now ever gonna be
Speaker 1: able to hear his name without hearing copyla. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Okay