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<v Speaker 1>It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's news radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, today was an interesting day in Dedham Superior Court

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<v Speaker 2>where the trial of Karen Reid begin to look as

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<v Speaker 2>if it was wrapping up a little bit. As a

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<v Speaker 2>matter of fact, there were four questions from the jury.

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<v Speaker 2>Now the trial lasted I think it was six weeks.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the second trial she is charged in related

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<v Speaker 2>to the death of her late boyfriend, Boston Police officer

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<v Speaker 2>John O'Keefe. Read is charged with a second degree murder,

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<v Speaker 2>which seems to me to be a bit of an overcharge.

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<v Speaker 2>Possible second charges manslaughter while operating a vehicle under the

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<v Speaker 2>influence of liquor, and there were lesser included charges there

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<v Speaker 2>individual charge of manslaughter without reference to the liquor, motor

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<v Speaker 2>vehicle homicide OUI, and then the third leaving the scene

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<v Speaker 2>of an accident resulting in death. So those are the

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<v Speaker 2>three charges that Karen Reid is facing today. Well, the

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<v Speaker 2>jury got the case last Friday, as I think all

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<v Speaker 2>of you know, they apparently spent an hour and a

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<v Speaker 2>half on Friday, which was probably no progress at all

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<v Speaker 2>on anything. That's a pretty brief amount of time for

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<v Speaker 2>a jury. And then I think it was nine hours

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<v Speaker 2>yesterday and maybe seven or eight hours today, so I

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<v Speaker 2>think they have deliberated approximately sixteen hours now. The first

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<v Speaker 2>trial a year ago, a year ago in the spring,

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<v Speaker 2>went for twenty four hours of deliberation, so this is

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<v Speaker 2>a significant amount of time. But they were four questions

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<v Speaker 2>that came in today just to set the stage. Let

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<v Speaker 2>me have Rob play a report that WBZTV's Christina Rex

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<v Speaker 2>who has been covering the trial for WBZ, filed late.

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<v Speaker 3>Today an indication from the jury in Karen Reid's retrial

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<v Speaker 3>that they might be deadlocked on one charge, just like

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<v Speaker 3>in her first trial.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going ended up in the exact same position that we.

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<v Speaker 2>Were in last year.

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<v Speaker 4>There are other steps that can be taken to perhaps

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<v Speaker 4>prevent that.

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<v Speaker 3>Tensions mounted Tuesday as the jury approached sixteen hours of

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<v Speaker 3>deliberations with no verdict, but a slew of questions for

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<v Speaker 3>the court.

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<v Speaker 4>What is the timeframe for the OUI charge? OUI at

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<v Speaker 4>twelve forty five or OUI at five am? Our video

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<v Speaker 4>clips of Karen's interview's evidence? And the third does convicting

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<v Speaker 4>guilty on a sub charge example of fence to number

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<v Speaker 4>five convict the overall charge.

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<v Speaker 3>Indicating that jurors might be considering convicting Karen Reid of

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<v Speaker 3>one of the lesser included charges like pure OUI or

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<v Speaker 3>operating under the influence.

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<v Speaker 2>This this is that's pretty good analysis by Christina Rex.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure if she's a lawyer or not, but

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<v Speaker 2>I think that her instinct on it is pretty good.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think this jury is going to end up

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<v Speaker 2>in a hung jury. I just have that sense that

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<v Speaker 2>a second a jury, a second time round, is going

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<v Speaker 2>to figure that they have an obligation and they will

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<v Speaker 2>be told if they come back and announce that they

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<v Speaker 2>are are deadlocked, the judge will give them a charge,

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<v Speaker 2>which will basically say they are the most qualified individuals

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<v Speaker 2>that they've sat there and listened to all the evidence.

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<v Speaker 2>They're the most qualified group of people anywhere in Massachusetts

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<v Speaker 2>to determine her guilt or innocence in this case. The

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<v Speaker 2>questions that we're interesting today, and again, without repeating what

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<v Speaker 2>Christina reported, what is the timeframe for the OUI charge?

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<v Speaker 2>That's an interesting question and one that frankly should have

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<v Speaker 2>been anticipated, I think by the prosecution. So she was

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<v Speaker 2>not charged with this crime, and obviously if whatever happened.

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<v Speaker 2>Happened around a quarter of one, and she drove home.

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<v Speaker 2>We are soon blissfully unaware of what did happen. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>obviously her lawyers believe that John O'Keefe was able to

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<v Speaker 2>walk into the house and a problem ensued, and that

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<v Speaker 2>the inadequate investigation by the state police, you know, just

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<v Speaker 2>just missed it. And that's why so many people are

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<v Speaker 2>critical of the District attorney's office, Mike Morrissey's office in

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<v Speaker 2>Norfolk County. She didn't realize, I guess that he had

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<v Speaker 2>not come home until she woke up five o'clock and

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<v Speaker 2>then she with a friend of hers, went out in

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<v Speaker 2>the midst of the snowstone to try to find him.

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<v Speaker 2>And you've seen the video and all of that. So

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<v Speaker 2>the question was his videotape from the bar where she

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<v Speaker 2>is being served some drinks. She did make some some

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<v Speaker 2>admissions against interest in some of the television commercial the

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<v Speaker 2>television interviews that she did after the first trial, so

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<v Speaker 2>the jury could have been looking at that. The other

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<v Speaker 2>thing is that I don't think that she had a

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<v Speaker 2>blood alcohol test or a breathalyzer test until probably a

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<v Speaker 2>quarter of nine the next morning, So that was I

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<v Speaker 2>thought a pretty insightful question from the jury. And the

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<v Speaker 2>second one dealt with the video clips of her interviews.

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<v Speaker 2>Should they be considered and yes, the judge answered that

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<v Speaker 2>pretty clearly. Yeah, I think no question. They are considered

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<v Speaker 2>evidence and they can take that into consideration. Third one,

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<v Speaker 2>does guilty on a sub charge mean guilty in the

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<v Speaker 2>overall charge, So it would be the answer to that

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<v Speaker 2>is no, because the overall charges manslaughter while operating a

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<v Speaker 2>vehicle under the influence of liquor. They could come back

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<v Speaker 2>with involuntary manslaughter, which is a sub charge of manslaughter

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<v Speaker 2>or motor vehicle homicide or OUI. So all of this,

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<v Speaker 2>and then the fourth question, which was the one that

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<v Speaker 2>sort of rang the bell as to a year ago.

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<v Speaker 2>If we find not guilty on two charges but kind

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<v Speaker 2>of agree on one charge, is it a hung jury

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<v Speaker 2>on all three charges or just one charge, which is

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<v Speaker 2>the very questions that were asked after the jury was

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<v Speaker 2>dismissed as a hung jury last July, if you recall,

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<v Speaker 2>if you remember, and there were some jurors who came

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<v Speaker 2>forward and said, yes, we had agreed that she was

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<v Speaker 2>not guilty on second degree murder, and I believe it

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<v Speaker 2>was not guilty on leaving the scene of an accent

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<v Speaker 2>and resulting in death. But they apparently were still discussing

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<v Speaker 2>manslaughter while operating a vehicle under the influence of liquor.

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<v Speaker 2>As I understand, that's what the jurors were telling the

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<v Speaker 2>defense lawyers post trial, and the judge today. Beverly Conone,

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<v Speaker 2>when she was challenged by defense attorney Alan Jackson, CONNONI

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<v Speaker 2>had said that that question about guilty on two charges, said,

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<v Speaker 2>and kind agree on one charges is very similar to

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<v Speaker 2>what but the first jury might have come back with.

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<v Speaker 2>Cannone said, that's a theoretical question, not one that I

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<v Speaker 2>can answer. Defense attorney Alan Jackson said that response was

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<v Speaker 2>over our objection. He added, I don't think it's an

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<v Speaker 2>appropriate answer to a very very clear question that could

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<v Speaker 2>be answered in an innocuous way that does not impact

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<v Speaker 2>miss Reed's rights the way it does. She responded that

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<v Speaker 2>there are things she could do, so I suspect that

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<v Speaker 2>they do if they were to come back and say

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<v Speaker 2>we're deadlocked. I have to believe that this judge is

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<v Speaker 2>going to learn from her past, in my opinion, errors

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<v Speaker 2>and would say, okay, since you asked the question, are

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<v Speaker 2>you deadlocked on all three charges or on just one

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<v Speaker 2>or two of the charges, which then would allow the

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<v Speaker 2>jury to come back with a partial verdict. But we'll see.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm looking for your thoughts after this day of

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<v Speaker 2>interesting activity at the courthouse. How many of you think

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<v Speaker 2>that a jury is a verdict is immited. How many

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<v Speaker 2>of you think that this jury is going down the

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<v Speaker 2>path that the first jury went down and it's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>be a hung jury, or your thoughts in the case. Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>this case has gone on and on and on. I

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<v Speaker 2>think some people probably are feeling fatigued on this one.

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<v Speaker 2>If there ever is a hung jury the second time,

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<v Speaker 2>I wonder if morrisey, I mean it's it's it's a

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<v Speaker 2>homicide case. The DA almost has to bring it a

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<v Speaker 2>third time, but it would be kind of unprecedented in

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<v Speaker 2>my opinion. I haven't researched all the case law in Massachusetts,

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<v Speaker 2>but if there's if does result in a hung jury,

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<v Speaker 2>it's gonna be some tough questions, very tough question six one, seven, two, five,

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<v Speaker 2>four ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one, ten thirty.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to talk about this for a while tonight

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<v Speaker 2>because it is the only story we're keeping our eye

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<v Speaker 2>on the Middle East at this point. Obviously President Trump

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<v Speaker 2>has now said we control the skies over Iran, which

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<v Speaker 2>is an interesting year use of the plural first person

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<v Speaker 2>plural we as opposed today meaning the Israeli pilots. We

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<v Speaker 2>don't have pilots to the rest of our knowledge. Oh

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<v Speaker 2>we may, but at this point we are unaware of it.

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<v Speaker 2>So all of that is in play. Six one, seven, two, five,

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<v Speaker 2>four ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten

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<v Speaker 2>thirty triple eight nine two, nine, ten thirty. Again, we

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<v Speaker 2>certainly would talk about it for at least an hour

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<v Speaker 2>or two. Uh, if you're out of state and you're

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<v Speaker 2>intrigued by this case, which is now every night it

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<v Speaker 2>plays on the national newscast quite prominently. It's certainly when

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<v Speaker 2>that vertic comes in, the nation's going to know about it.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of homicide cases that go on in

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<v Speaker 2>this country on a day to day basis that no

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<v Speaker 2>one knows about. This is one that a good portion

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<v Speaker 2>of the country, not everyone, but a good portion of

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<v Speaker 2>the country is aware of the implications of this case.

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<v Speaker 2>Back on Nightside, right after a couple of quick messages.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Nightside with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's news Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, I know there's a lot of people who are

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<v Speaker 2>out there, well every day, there was a big crowd

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<v Speaker 2>of people out there. I don't quite understand, and I'd

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<v Speaker 2>love to have this as part of the conversation. If

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<v Speaker 2>you've been out there, I would love to know what

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<v Speaker 2>is the connection that causes you to be out there again.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure that for every person who is out there

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<v Speaker 2>wearing the color pink, which shows solidarity with Karen Reid,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure that for different people there are different reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>But if you're actually spending part of your day out

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<v Speaker 2>there and again, you become part of a movement. I

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<v Speaker 2>can't think of any trial in my memory, and maybe

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<v Speaker 2>you can think of some where this many people on

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<v Speaker 2>a consistent basis stood outside the courthouse day after day

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<v Speaker 2>after day. Let's go to Mara down on Cape Cod

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<v Speaker 2>Mari going to start us off tonight. Your thoughts are

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<v Speaker 2>then her, how are you you're quick your thoughts of

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<v Speaker 2>Karen Reid trial number two?

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<v Speaker 5>So you know, I'm not in no position to say

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<v Speaker 5>she's absolutely guilty or absolutely innocent. I just I feel

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<v Speaker 5>bad that at the end of all of this, we're

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<v Speaker 5>probably never going to know exactly what happened that night,

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<v Speaker 5>and I feel that the the those that are chiefly

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<v Speaker 5>responsible for us never knowing the real story are the police,

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<v Speaker 5>the canton and or the mass State Police Department.

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<v Speaker 6>They you know, they didn't.

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<v Speaker 5>Knock on the door atty thirty four of air of you.

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<v Speaker 5>I feel like that they, you know, neglected a lot

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<v Speaker 5>of pieces that maybe could have answered a lot of questions.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I happen to share that that concern. I

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<v Speaker 2>think the police, Uh, there's a body on the lawn,

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<v Speaker 2>the body is dead. You would think that you'd say, well,

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<v Speaker 2>why don't we check with the people inside? Maybe they

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<v Speaker 2>heard something or they saw something. Seems like elementary police work.

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<v Speaker 2>And I know that that has raised probably a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of doubt in the minds of a lot of people.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think that's a legitimate question.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I just and there's a lot Again, I'm not

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<v Speaker 5>on the jury. I you know, I haven't listened to

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<v Speaker 5>every minute of the trial, but I've heard I feel

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<v Speaker 5>like I've heard enough of it that there's certainly reasonable doubt.

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<v Speaker 5>There's you know, were the mocks on his arms caused

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<v Speaker 5>by a dog or were they caused by the you know,

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<v Speaker 5>the impact of the car or the you know, the

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<v Speaker 5>suv or the you know. You have medical examiners who

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<v Speaker 5>say they can't determine exactly what was the cause of death.

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<v Speaker 5>So I just feel really bad that I think at

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<v Speaker 5>the end of the day, there isn't going to be

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<v Speaker 5>a clear answer, and I think that's the sad part in.

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<v Speaker 7>All of this.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think you're right. Look, everybody has an opinion,

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<v Speaker 2>and let's say the OJ Simpson case, but yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think that. Again, people can have opinions, but there's nothing.

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<v Speaker 2>I was hoping that there would be some more forensic

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<v Speaker 2>evidence and maybe it was presented and I just didn't

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<v Speaker 2>hear it in terms of where the car was, where

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<v Speaker 2>it moved, when did it move, at what speed did

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<v Speaker 2>it move? Was John Keith in the car out of

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<v Speaker 2>the car? I don't know if the vehicle that she

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<v Speaker 2>was driving would have captured that sort of evidence or.

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<v Speaker 7>That sort of.

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<v Speaker 5>Is the prostitution has now moved the time of impact

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<v Speaker 5>or death or whatever. It's twelve forty five and and

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<v Speaker 5>you have data that says that shows her having logged

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<v Speaker 5>into the Wi Fi at home at twelve I don't know,

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<v Speaker 5>thirty six or thirty eight or whatever it was before

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<v Speaker 5>twelve forty five. So I don't know there's reasonables out there,

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<v Speaker 5>and again it doesn't it doesn't give anybody a clear

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<v Speaker 5>answer as to exactly what happened that night. And that's

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<v Speaker 5>that's just the unfortunate part of all of this.

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<v Speaker 7>No, did you ever.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you ever ride up from the cape to to

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<v Speaker 2>survey the situation? Did you ever go up there? Do

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<v Speaker 2>you know anybody who sat outside the courthouse in solidarity

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<v Speaker 2>with Karen Reid?

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<v Speaker 5>Oh no, no, no, no, not at all. No, no, no,

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<v Speaker 5>I've just honestly I remember, you know, when it happened

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<v Speaker 5>and hearing about it and thinking, oh my gosh, that's awful.

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<v Speaker 5>And then you know, the first trial started and it

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<v Speaker 5>was probably well underway by the time I kind of

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<v Speaker 5>got up to speed or started getting interested in it,

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<v Speaker 5>and you know, kind of piecing the bits of information

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<v Speaker 5>that I got, piecing it together and thinking, wow, you know,

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<v Speaker 5>it's just I just feel like there's certainly a lot

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<v Speaker 5>of reasonable doubt again just based on the information.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I get it. And you're not trying to pronounce

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<v Speaker 2>a verdict, you know, on the dry. But but I'll

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<v Speaker 2>tell you this there's.

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<v Speaker 5>No answer, and I just feel bad about that.

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<v Speaker 2>I originally was, Uh, you kind of caught my eye,

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<v Speaker 2>particularly when you had the reporter, the guy who claims

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<v Speaker 2>to be a reporter, who was, you know, sort of

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<v Speaker 2>a turtle boy or whatever his name is. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 2>I read some of his stuff and I just didn't

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<v Speaker 2>find it to be at the journalistic level that I

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<v Speaker 2>would want. So I kept following it in the Globe,

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<v Speaker 2>in the Herald, where professional reporters were who had no involvement,

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<v Speaker 2>no interest in the case. They weren't invested in it.

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<v Speaker 2>But a lot of people. I hope we hear from

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<v Speaker 2>some people who were there on a regular or semi

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<v Speaker 2>regular basis to find out what drove them to this,

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<v Speaker 2>to this case. There have been other high profile cases

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<v Speaker 2>in Massachusetts, but there was something about this one that

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<v Speaker 2>caught the imagination of a lot of people. Mar love

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<v Speaker 2>your phone call. Thanks for getting this going.

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<v Speaker 5>I appreciate it all right, Dan, thank you, take care

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<v Speaker 5>you too.

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<v Speaker 2>Talk to you soon. Thanks very much. That's a great,

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<v Speaker 2>great call. Let's keep rolling here. I should have asked

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<v Speaker 2>more if she's first time caller, feel free if you

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<v Speaker 2>are first time called it to let us know because

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<v Speaker 2>that helps us decide what topics and with they should

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<v Speaker 2>be placed in the show six one seven one line

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<v Speaker 2>at six one seven, two, five, four, ten thirty and

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<v Speaker 2>one at six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.

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<v Speaker 2>If you have been out there holding vigil, as it

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<v Speaker 2>were for Karen Reid, I'd love to know your motivation, what,

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<v Speaker 2>what drew you in? What got you that committed? Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>it's again, everybody's got a different story, I'm sure, but

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<v Speaker 2>it seems to me a tremendous commitment to the people,

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<v Speaker 2>the men and women who have been their day after

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<v Speaker 2>day during the course of this end or the first trial.

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<v Speaker 2>Back on Nightside right after these quick messages, followed by

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<v Speaker 2>a newscast at the top of the at the bottom

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<v Speaker 2>of the hour, I should say.

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<v Speaker 1>Night Side with Dan Ray, I'm Boston's news Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Or Let's go. I thought that Moore's call was really interesting,

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<v Speaker 2>and I know Debor is going to do the same

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<v Speaker 2>for us here up in Salem. Hi, Deborah, how are

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<v Speaker 2>you tonight?

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<v Speaker 6>Good evening, mister Dean Ray. Thank you for taking my

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<v Speaker 6>phone call, Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>For calling in. What have you followed this case closely?

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<v Speaker 2>I'll bet you have.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm a first time caller, sir, Well.

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<v Speaker 2>How about that. Let's get a rude in a wall house. Look,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't have called me, sir. This isn't the army,

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<v Speaker 2>this is Knight's side. Go ahead.

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<v Speaker 6>I had, Yes, I had to say, I listened to

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<v Speaker 6>you for the past year, and I'm trying to be.

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<v Speaker 8>Loyal.

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<v Speaker 7>We's not.

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<v Speaker 6>Two major victims in this very sad situation in case,

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<v Speaker 6>first of all police officer John o'keith and also his

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<v Speaker 6>poor mother. Yeah, I've watched her on TV. Her head

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<v Speaker 6>now all the time. She said, some major losses within

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<v Speaker 6>the past four years, such as her daughter, followed by

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<v Speaker 6>her son in law, and lastly this mysterious case and

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<v Speaker 6>death of police officer John o' keith. We had to

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<v Speaker 6>get out of me.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let me ask you this. There were the two

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<v Speaker 2>children that John O'Keefe adopted were a the children of

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<v Speaker 2>his sister and his brother in law.

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<v Speaker 6>I think that was stated in court.

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<v Speaker 7>I'm not sure, but I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>Saying, I'm just saying that would be logical. I was.

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<v Speaker 2>I was unaware. I knew that he had adopted two

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<v Speaker 2>children and you know who had lost both their parents obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>So go, go right ahead. I didn't mean to interrupt.

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<v Speaker 2>Go right ahead.

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<v Speaker 6>No, that's fine. I'm not going to talk much longer.

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<v Speaker 6>I don't even be the jury. They have a very

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<v Speaker 6>tough case. This is one of the toughest cases I've

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<v Speaker 6>ever heard of my life. And where I stand, what's

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<v Speaker 6>the miss read, I'm I'm not sure whether she's innocent

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<v Speaker 6>and guilty only the goodwife though. And I've heard the

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<v Speaker 6>two doctors whose names I cannot mention talk about animal wounds,

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<v Speaker 6>and I believe that would tell him the truth, that

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<v Speaker 6>it's just a tough case. And I remember he thinks

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<v Speaker 6>that the jury, very annual, will give the correct verdict.

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<v Speaker 2>Let us hope so. By the way, in terms of

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<v Speaker 2>the animal wounds, as I'm sure the so called dogfights,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of people are convinced that there was a

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<v Speaker 2>dog in the house and he went inside and a

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<v Speaker 2>brawl broke out and the dog attacked him at the

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<v Speaker 2>same time. I don't know if if if he was

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<v Speaker 2>actually and again I don't know the answers there. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>only asking the questions. If he was hit by the

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<v Speaker 2>car and fell on the lawn and died, could not

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<v Speaker 2>have an animal come along and and and bit at

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<v Speaker 2>at what was a dead body. I mean, I just

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<v Speaker 2>think that you know, again, I wasn't in court either,

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<v Speaker 2>But it seems to me that this story you can

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<v Speaker 2>come up with all sorts of scenarios, and I am

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<v Speaker 2>as mystified by it as you are. I have a

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<v Speaker 2>strong feeling as to what happened in the O. J.

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<v Speaker 2>Simpson case, but I don't have a very strong feeling

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<v Speaker 2>as to what happened here. But the people who stand

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<v Speaker 2>out there day after day in the hot sun obviously

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<v Speaker 2>are totally committed to a belief in her innocence.

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<v Speaker 6>As I said, I have great trust because jury knows

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<v Speaker 6>best and they will.

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<v Speaker 2>I share that with you, By the way I share

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<v Speaker 2>that with you. I've spent plenty of time in courtrooms

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<v Speaker 2>as a lawyer and as a reporter, and I have

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<v Speaker 2>always come away with the belief that unless you sit

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<v Speaker 2>in a courtroom for the entirety of a trial, or

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<v Speaker 2>you're trying the case, you don't know it as well

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<v Speaker 2>just by watching on television. But well, we'll see how

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<v Speaker 2>I hope. I hope that the jury can come to

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<v Speaker 2>a decision and there can be some closure here that's

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<v Speaker 2>satisfactory to everyone. What they're going to decide, I have

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<v Speaker 2>no idea to be really honest with you, I wouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>even attempt to figure that one out at this point.

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<v Speaker 2>Debry did great. Your sincerity is genuine. I really appreciate

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<v Speaker 2>you taking the time to call. Thanks for listening to

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<v Speaker 2>the show and call any night on this or any

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<v Speaker 2>other topic. I really do appreciate you taking the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 6>Thank you very much accepting my call. I think a

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<v Speaker 6>lot of you, we all do.

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<v Speaker 7>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks, Debora, call me Dan, Okay, I'm not that old.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks very much. I have a great night. All right,

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<v Speaker 2>let's keep rolling. You're going to go to Mark in

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<v Speaker 2>New Hampshire, Mark next on night Saga, Right ahead? Mark.

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<v Speaker 8>Yeah. First of all, Dan, you just made a comment

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<v Speaker 8>about if side O'Keefe was lying on retchipts on the

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<v Speaker 8>front lawn, could those marks have been caused by a

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<v Speaker 8>stray animal? What like a bob cat or coyote or something. Dan.

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<v Speaker 8>If that was the case, Dan, if it was the

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<v Speaker 8>slightest possibility, don't you think that Adam Lalley in the

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<v Speaker 8>first trial or Hank Brennan in the second trial would

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<v Speaker 8>have brought that up. Neither one of them ever brought

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<v Speaker 8>up the possibility of John O'Keefe being attacked while he

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<v Speaker 8>was unresponsive on the front lawn by some wild animal.

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<v Speaker 2>All I'm trying to say to you is that you

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<v Speaker 2>always have to think of every possibility, whether you're a

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<v Speaker 2>prosecutor or a defense.

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<v Speaker 8>Lawyer or What I'm saying to you, sir, is that

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<v Speaker 8>the prosecutors did not mention that in either trial before Dan. Therefore,

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<v Speaker 8>the jurors cannot discuss that. Dan.

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<v Speaker 2>I know the jury cannot discuss that, but I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>a juror. You're not a juror. We're talking about it

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<v Speaker 2>on the radio, Okay, And what I'm saying, I have

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<v Speaker 2>my own thoughts as to what might have happened. I

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<v Speaker 2>have tried to keep those thoughts to myself. Okay, every

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<v Speaker 2>scenario that is there, including the scenario of the assault

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<v Speaker 2>in the home resulting in his death. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>that if that happened that the people inside the home

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<v Speaker 2>would have automatically said, I got a great idea, let's

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<v Speaker 2>just put them on the front lawn. No one will

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<v Speaker 2>notice till the spring. That's all I assume you have.

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<v Speaker 2>I assume you hold on for a second. I assume

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<v Speaker 2>you've solved the problem. You know exactly what happened, right Mark? Oh?

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<v Speaker 8>Dan, Dan, all right, if you want to get sarcastic first, well, no.

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<v Speaker 2>You're coming across like a tough guy. And I love

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<v Speaker 2>dealing with tough guys. I love dealing with tough guys.

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<v Speaker 8>What happened inside the house? What I do know? And medical?

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<v Speaker 8>And I spent forty five years in the medical profession.

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<v Speaker 8>What what did.

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<v Speaker 2>You do in the medical profession.

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<v Speaker 8>I was a clinical pharmacist.

422
00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:15.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, pharmacist.

423
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:19.200
<v Speaker 8>So I studied the I looked at the medical information

424
00:26:19.960 --> 00:26:25.119
<v Speaker 8>that was present in this trial. The corner the only

425
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:32.680
<v Speaker 8>person that ever touched the body of John O'Keefe. In

426
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:38.680
<v Speaker 8>her autopsy report, she stated, and when she was crossed

427
00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:44.839
<v Speaker 8>by uh was it Jackson or whoever had crossed her?

428
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:50.720
<v Speaker 8>She stated that she could not have stated that he

429
00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:55.039
<v Speaker 8>was hit by a motor vehicle. There was no collision

430
00:26:55.119 --> 00:26:59.240
<v Speaker 8>point on his body that would have been consistent with

431
00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:04.160
<v Speaker 8>the like of an automobile. That was the coroner, Dan,

432
00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:08.680
<v Speaker 8>That's not me. The coroner stated that in the report.

433
00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:13.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well maybe maybe what if we follow your logic, Okay,

434
00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:18.039
<v Speaker 2>assuming that it's logical, Uh, maybe the indictment never.

435
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:18.880
<v Speaker 8>Should be logical.

436
00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:22.440
<v Speaker 2>Never, Well, I assume it is, you know, and maybe

437
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:24.799
<v Speaker 2>the indictment never should have been broad as what I

438
00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:25.599
<v Speaker 2>think you're saying.

439
00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:28.920
<v Speaker 8>Ah, now you're talking sense.

440
00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:32.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh no, I'm just following your logic. I'm following your logic.

441
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:35.559
<v Speaker 2>I didn't. I'm not characterizing in any sense Dan.

442
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:39.519
<v Speaker 8>Dan. First, first of all, I wanted to I really

443
00:27:39.559 --> 00:27:42.079
<v Speaker 8>wanted to talk about the trial. But while I was

444
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:45.759
<v Speaker 8>on hold, you made a comment that I need to

445
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:50.039
<v Speaker 8>take umbrage with. You made a sleight of hand slap

446
00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:55.839
<v Speaker 8>on the face comment at Aiden Cornie aka Turtle Boy. Yeah,

447
00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:58.000
<v Speaker 8>and he sort of made the reference that he's not

448
00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:00.319
<v Speaker 8>a real journals.

449
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:03.039
<v Speaker 2>He's not a professional journalist. To the best of my knowledge,

450
00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:04.000
<v Speaker 2>who does he work for?

451
00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:08.279
<v Speaker 8>Dan? I subscribe to his YouTube channel. Good for you,

452
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.319
<v Speaker 8>I'll be good for you. Admit. I'll be the first

453
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:16.559
<v Speaker 8>to admit, Dan, that Turtle Boy is rough around the edges.

454
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:20.480
<v Speaker 8>He's vulgar. Okay, you think I'm also going to say this.

455
00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:26.960
<v Speaker 8>That guy has broken more stories in this case in

456
00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:31.400
<v Speaker 8>all the Boston local Boston media stations combined.

457
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:35.720
<v Speaker 2>So he's run he's run circles around all the stations

458
00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:38.119
<v Speaker 2>that's fine. You know what, Mark, I am not going

459
00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:40.839
<v Speaker 2>to try to disabuse you of your opinion because it's

460
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:44.319
<v Speaker 2>clear to me from the intensity with which you say

461
00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:48.920
<v Speaker 2>your beliefs, that you are absolutely convinced beyond.

462
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:49.680
<v Speaker 8>A reasonable doubt.

463
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:54.599
<v Speaker 2>You know exactly what happened. I know that, and I

464
00:28:54.640 --> 00:28:57.200
<v Speaker 2>hear it in your voice. Mark, So what am I here?

465
00:28:57.240 --> 00:29:00.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to argue with you over this. I'm

466
00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:03.359
<v Speaker 2>delighted that you called and presented your viewpoints.

467
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:06.359
<v Speaker 8>You're a fence sitter. You always have been when it's

468
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:08.079
<v Speaker 8>times listen to you.

469
00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:10.480
<v Speaker 2>You know what, I'm not a fence sitter in anything.

470
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:12.839
<v Speaker 2>I'm not a fence sitter in anything. Mark. I'll tell

471
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:17.079
<v Speaker 2>you what when I'm just smart enough to know that

472
00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:20.920
<v Speaker 2>unless I have been in the courtroom for the entirety

473
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:24.319
<v Speaker 2>of the trial and have listened carefully to the entirety

474
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:27.079
<v Speaker 2>of the trial, there may be things that I don't know.

475
00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Have you been in the front room every day? Have

476
00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:32.000
<v Speaker 2>you watched every day? Okay, well, good for you. And

477
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:36.359
<v Speaker 2>with your pharmaceutical degree. With your pharmaceutical degree, I'm sure

478
00:29:36.599 --> 00:29:39.759
<v Speaker 2>that you have a perspective that gives you a unique

479
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:43.599
<v Speaker 2>ability to figure out exactly what happened, and I think

480
00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:44.839
<v Speaker 2>you've sold I think you have.

481
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:47.880
<v Speaker 8>I told us, could I just make one more coliment

482
00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:50.160
<v Speaker 8>about journalism and I'll give you.

483
00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:53.079
<v Speaker 2>I'll give you thirty I've given you six minutes. I'll

484
00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:54.920
<v Speaker 2>give you twenty five more seconds.

485
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:59.039
<v Speaker 8>Go ahead, Okay, all right, thank you. So on January

486
00:29:59.079 --> 00:30:05.960
<v Speaker 8>thirty twenty, WBZTV came out with a news story that

487
00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:12.160
<v Speaker 8>there was ring camera video footage that Karen Reid of

488
00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:16.319
<v Speaker 8>showing Karen Reid hitting John o'tiyeah.

489
00:30:16.359 --> 00:30:19.279
<v Speaker 2>First of all, I don't know. I don't know what

490
00:30:19.359 --> 00:30:23.000
<v Speaker 2>you're saying to be true. And because I don't know

491
00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:26.599
<v Speaker 2>what you're saying to be true, since I do not

492
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.319
<v Speaker 2>know what you're saying to be true, it might be true.

493
00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:33.200
<v Speaker 2>But since I do not know what you're saying to

494
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:37.000
<v Speaker 2>be true, Mark, I allowed it in the air, but

495
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:40.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm saying right now that's I'm not here to discuss

496
00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:44.200
<v Speaker 2>how WBZTV, for whom I do not work. By the way,

497
00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:48.920
<v Speaker 2>that's a competitor of WBZ Radio. So therefore, you felt

498
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:51.920
<v Speaker 2>it was important to say you've exceeded you thirty five seconds.

499
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:56.519
<v Speaker 2>But I appreciate you having called tonight. Thank you very much. Again,

500
00:30:58.519 --> 00:31:01.200
<v Speaker 2>you can see the passion that exists here. If you're

501
00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:04.799
<v Speaker 2>passionate about this story, let's talk about it. The only

502
00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:07.519
<v Speaker 2>line that's open right now is six one seven, nine three, one,

503
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:12.960
<v Speaker 2>ten thirty. I have tangled with Mark on other issues. Okay,

504
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:16.240
<v Speaker 2>he might be right. I don't know. I'm I'm big

505
00:31:16.359 --> 00:31:18.599
<v Speaker 2>enough to admit I don't know that. I don't know

506
00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:21.440
<v Speaker 2>what the result is. I don't know what actually happened.

507
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:23.720
<v Speaker 2>I look at I can look at a set of

508
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:29.359
<v Speaker 2>facts and surmise and think and discuss. That's what I do. Mark,

509
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:34.160
<v Speaker 2>because of his pharmaceutical degree, is an expert uh in

510
00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:38.640
<v Speaker 2>in trial law. I never had when I was in

511
00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:42.319
<v Speaker 2>law school, never had one pharmacy issue. If there was

512
00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:44.480
<v Speaker 2>a pharmaceutical issue in a case, I would have found

513
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:49.920
<v Speaker 2>that expert witness. Maybe Mark, maybe not. Back on Nightside

514
00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:52.680
<v Speaker 2>six one seven, nine three, one ten thirty, we will

515
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:55.240
<v Speaker 2>continue with our conversation right after this.

516
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:01.319
<v Speaker 1>You're on Night Side with Dan Ray ONBZ Boston's news radio.

517
00:32:01.480 --> 00:32:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Let's pick the pace up a little bit. Let's go

518
00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:05.880
<v Speaker 2>first time out of state to Jony in Pennsylvania. Jony,

519
00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:08.440
<v Speaker 2>I guess you're watching this down in Pennsylvania too.

520
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:10.599
<v Speaker 1>Well, No, exactly.

521
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:14.039
<v Speaker 6>But I've been following it through through your radio station.

522
00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:16.880
<v Speaker 2>Good, great, great, great? What's your thoughts?

523
00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:18.359
<v Speaker 5>What thought is?

524
00:32:18.559 --> 00:32:21.880
<v Speaker 2>My question is, no matter.

525
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:24.000
<v Speaker 1>What the verdict is, do you think she'll get a.

526
00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:26.240
<v Speaker 6>Book or a movie deal or both of both?

527
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:30.039
<v Speaker 2>EUSt I think there's a pretty good possibility of that,

528
00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:34.079
<v Speaker 2>and it may be why she did some of the

529
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:39.440
<v Speaker 2>interviews between the first two cases. It's possible, it's possible.

530
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:44.759
<v Speaker 2>And again, if if she's acquitted or acquitted on most

531
00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:47.000
<v Speaker 2>or all of the charges, I think that the movie

532
00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:50.759
<v Speaker 2>deal becomes even more of a possibility. So we'll have

533
00:32:50.839 --> 00:32:55.119
<v Speaker 2>to say that there's a lot of HBO and Netflix

534
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:57.319
<v Speaker 2>and all of that that are always looking for story

535
00:32:57.400 --> 00:33:01.799
<v Speaker 2>ideas these days. So yeah, so a little bit easier necessarily.

536
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:06.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't think it'd be necessarily a major motion picture

537
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:09.119
<v Speaker 2>at the at the movie theaters, but I could see

538
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:15.759
<v Speaker 2>it being on HBO, Netflix, some of those discovery channels. Sure. Absolutely. Oh.

539
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:18.039
<v Speaker 6>Also prayer for the Middle East.

540
00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:21.799
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. We want to make sure that that conflagration stays

541
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:24.720
<v Speaker 2>where it is and that it gets resolved quickly with

542
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:25.759
<v Speaker 2>some finality.

543
00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:28.759
<v Speaker 7>Okay, thank you.

544
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:30.599
<v Speaker 2>Thank you. I have a great night, going to go

545
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:32.759
<v Speaker 2>to Alex and Millis Alex next on nights.

546
00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:37.079
<v Speaker 7>I go, ahead, hey, Dan, how are you? I was, Oh,

547
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:39.559
<v Speaker 7>first of all, I want to congratulate you for being

548
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:40.720
<v Speaker 7>kind to the unkind.

549
00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:43.920
<v Speaker 2>You're kind to say that, correct?

550
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:51.240
<v Speaker 7>Ahead, No, I was trying to keep my composure while

551
00:33:51.240 --> 00:33:54.400
<v Speaker 7>you were sparring. So I was going to say, my

552
00:33:54.519 --> 00:33:58.000
<v Speaker 7>wife is she goes? I hope they I hope they don't,

553
00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:01.319
<v Speaker 7>you know, find her guilty. I feel so bad for

554
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:05.160
<v Speaker 7>that woman, you know, but I I know that something happened,

555
00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:08.920
<v Speaker 7>but you know, there's doubt, but I know for sure

556
00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:11.599
<v Speaker 7>that she was, you know, under the influence. She was

557
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:16.679
<v Speaker 7>driving under the influence. So they may find her guilty

558
00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:20.119
<v Speaker 7>on those chargers. And the other thing is I can't

559
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:23.599
<v Speaker 7>understand is it like a cult following? You know, all

560
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:26.079
<v Speaker 7>these people in front of the courthouse. I have a

561
00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:30.679
<v Speaker 7>doctor's appointment right near there tomorrow and I hate I

562
00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:33.320
<v Speaker 7>didn't want to cancel it. But you know, I just

563
00:34:33.440 --> 00:34:36.639
<v Speaker 7>say myself, do these people have you know, a lot

564
00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:39.559
<v Speaker 7>of time on their hands that I don't.

565
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:41.480
<v Speaker 2>Want to diminish their them. I mean, there are a

566
00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:43.400
<v Speaker 2>lot of people who live and die with how the

567
00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:45.840
<v Speaker 2>Red Sox do with the bruins or the Patriots, and

568
00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:48.760
<v Speaker 2>they follow things closely. I would suggest that if you

569
00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:50.840
<v Speaker 2>have a doctor's appointment there, you know, there's a bunch

570
00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:53.679
<v Speaker 2>of ways to get into Debtum Park, two or three

571
00:34:54.079 --> 00:34:57.639
<v Speaker 2>blocks further away. On the other side of your doctor's appointment,

572
00:34:57.639 --> 00:34:59.840
<v Speaker 2>you'll find a good parking space, get a couple of

573
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:03.079
<v Speaker 2>off and get to the doctrine. Best of luck with

574
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:05.639
<v Speaker 2>that in the morning, Alex, I mean you won't. I

575
00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:08.079
<v Speaker 2>don't think you'll be impacted by particularly if it's early,

576
00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:11.159
<v Speaker 2>because even if they start early, it's gonna take it

577
00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:13.679
<v Speaker 2>always takes half an hour an hour for them to

578
00:35:14.199 --> 00:35:17.320
<v Speaker 2>reassemble and take whatever. Even if they were taking a

579
00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:19.480
<v Speaker 2>vote tomorrow morning, I don't think you'd be I don't

580
00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:20.800
<v Speaker 2>think you'd be a firstly impacted.

581
00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:23.440
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, what's what's the rule of thumb? You know, the

582
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:29.159
<v Speaker 7>longer the trial takes, the longer the decision takes, the

583
00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:31.679
<v Speaker 7>less app she's going to be found guilty.

584
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:34.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, the only rule of thumb that I've learned over

585
00:35:34.719 --> 00:35:36.760
<v Speaker 2>the years is there really is no rule of thumb.

586
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:39.320
<v Speaker 2>There have been cases that have come back very quickly

587
00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:42.320
<v Speaker 2>with an acquittal. There have been cases that have come

588
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:46.480
<v Speaker 2>back very quickly with a conviction, So there's really no

589
00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:49.039
<v Speaker 2>rule of thumb, and anyone who tries to read a

590
00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:53.480
<v Speaker 2>jury generally is going to be writ fifty percent of

591
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:56.880
<v Speaker 2>the time. I feel lucky as simple as that. Hey,

592
00:35:56.880 --> 00:35:59.320
<v Speaker 2>thanks Alex, the best of luck with the doctor's point.

593
00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:00.800
<v Speaker 2>Hope everything is well the morning.

594
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:03.199
<v Speaker 7>Okay, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, thanks. I'm not a phrase them,

595
00:36:03.320 --> 00:36:04.000
<v Speaker 7>Thanks Alex.

596
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:07.039
<v Speaker 2>Okay, he's a good night. Those are you in the line? Frank,

597
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:09.320
<v Speaker 2>Steve and Ann Marie. You stay right there. We're gonna

598
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:11.800
<v Speaker 2>get right to you guys right after the news, and

599
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:14.320
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna stick with this for a while into certainly

600
00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:16.679
<v Speaker 2>into the ten maybe even longer. This is the story

601
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:19.400
<v Speaker 2>of the day, as long as the piece well, as

602
00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:21.639
<v Speaker 2>long as things remain stable in the Middle East. We're

603
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:23.960
<v Speaker 2>keeping an eye on that as well. Six one, seven, two,

604
00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:26.599
<v Speaker 2>five four ten thirty one line there. Six one seven,

605
00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:28.840
<v Speaker 2>nine three one ten thirty one line there. If you

606
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:30.880
<v Speaker 2>die now, we'll get you in early during the ten

607
00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:34.960
<v Speaker 2>o'clock news. Frank, Steve and Ann Marie stay right there,

608
00:36:35.000 --> 00:36:37.199
<v Speaker 2>coming back right after the ten o'clock news. On Night

609
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:38.159
<v Speaker 2>Side with Dan Ray