Speaker 1: Hello Andrew, Welcome to Reality TV Cringe as we are
here to talk sister was honey. We are launching ourselves
straight into season ten and what a hard launch for
the Catfish. It was. Yeah. Now, before we get into it,
we do you have to warn you to please how'd
your wife?
Speaker 2: If you're hat those little kids.
Speaker 1: At home in the closet, this isn't irreverent podcast. We're stupid. Yeah,
we say dumb things, we use swear words and everything,
and so if.
Speaker 2: You're a sensity, the same for you.
Speaker 1: You might want to find yourself another dumpster. But if
you're ready to bring doctor Nancy into the dumpster so
we can listen to Mary l about the Catfish, then
welcome to this dumpster.
Speaker 3: And if you like what we do over here, please
be sure to follow us on Instagram at reality tv
Grunch and join us on Patreon, Patreon, dot com, sash
reality tv Grunch just where you get access to all
of our bonus content, all of our weekly episodes add
free and it's just the best way to support us.
Speaker 1: It really is. Now. If you are watching on YouTube,
please do not forget to like and comment and share
on subscribe and also get up off your booties and
give your girls a high. Please get in the pit
and try to love someone. Every single thing you do
helps us in the algo allegedly, and so thank you.
Speaker 3: In he thinks.
Speaker 1: Now, I do have to say that I was noticing
that our last Sister Wives video was hyped up. Yeah,
we have like one hundred and eighty five thousand hype points.
Oh my gosh, we've got a little bit of a
raccoon army out there that's willing to do the tough things.
Speaker 2: We appreciate that so much.
Speaker 1: I was really happy. So thank you, guys. Thanks. Now,
before we get into it, I just I do have
to ask you, Beatrice, whether you had any thoughts or
any feelings after watching this episode.
Speaker 3: I had a lot of thoughts and I had a
lot of feelings tell us about But we'll get to
the catfish part later. My takeaway is going to be good.
It's gonna be angelic this week. Little baby Soul and
Truly are so cute.
Speaker 1: Oh god, Truly is so annoying.
Speaker 2: She's adorable. She's only four.
Speaker 1: Oh no, you are not. She's not a door. She's
she's always putting her hands on him and screaming in
his face.
Speaker 2: She's a little kid.
Speaker 1: She's annoying. She's sorry, I'm just kissed annoying to me.
I thought they were okay. I have a takeaway, and
I just want to say that I was filled with
rage flames the side of my face because the audacity
of the Browns, and in particular Mary and these lying
who lie. All they do is lie. I had to
stop the episode midwatch and like go on Google and
through the archives, and I thought to myself, hey, I
think there are some actual recordings out there of Mary
and her various and sundry conversations with the catfish Sam.
And sure enough there were Reddit posts. And then you
sent me a link to the actual recordings of Mary
leaving messages for Sam slash Jackie, in which she is
completely in love with Sam. She is talking about how
handsome he is and how passionate they are together, and
how much she's so much more handsome than Cody. And
so then after I listened to the messages, I turned
the episode back on and I watched the scene where
they're having a family meeting and she's making herself out
to be a victim and look, we're going to talk
about it at the time, but like you, I know,
they lie so much, they're so dis they can't tell
the truth for anything, and it was really pressing me off.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was getting pissed off, specifically when Nancy came
into the picture and we're having this family discussion about
it and Mary's just like crying and talking about how she's.
Speaker 1: Been a bull I was targeted. They sought me out.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I shouldn't laugh at that.
Speaker 1: They're verbally abusing me, and they're bugging my house and
stuff like that. The only way Jackie could have bugged
your house is if you invited her into your house. Yeah, right,
so why are you inviting these people into your house?
But like, nobody's asking these really fundamental, easy questions. The
only person who was dubious and not buying Mary's bullshit
was Cody. Yeah, which was interesting is Cody, And I'm like,
come on, Cody. And actually Robin was the one who
called it an affair and at the end of the episode,
and I know I'm skipping ahead, but I was so triggered.
At the end of the episode, Mary's like all they
can say is like, I'm here, I didn't have an affair,
and I'm strong, like.
Speaker 3: When in the voicemail, She's literally like, I love you.
I love you.
Speaker 1: So I love you, I love you, I love you,
I fucking love you. I'm like, Mary, you absolutely had
an emotional affair.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just call it what it is.
Speaker 1: Robin did. I wonder what she thought when she saw
that back, because that was an interstitial that Robin gave.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Anyway, so I'm jumping ahead. I was just angry and
I'm putting it out there without further ado. Let's get
into our recap of Sister Wives Season ten, episode one,
and Tato Tote.
Speaker 3: Catfishing Fallout dun And this was a really long episode
and it was filled with a lot of like filler
at the beginning, Like we'll kind of skim through some
of it because it.
Speaker 1: Was quite frankly Boro.
Speaker 3: Yes, but we have a few things going on. We
obviously have the aftermath of the catfish because at the time,
after especially after like the tell all and everything this
was in the new was in the tabloids. I'm sure
Mary's photos got leaked. I'm sure the voicemails and stuff
got leaked at the same time. So like a lot
of it was coming out, they obviously had to do
some damage control, So we kind of talk about it
at the beginning of the episode a little bit about
how Mary you know, wanted to tell the family in Alaska,
but then decided halfway through telling them that it wasn't
the good, the best time to tell them, so she
gave him like a half baked, you know, confession, and
then after they filmed, then she told the family privately.
They were all shocked about it, but you know, we'll
talk about that later. Right now, we got to focus
on the fact that Maddie is moving out. She is
getting a rental up in Montana, which is where Caleb
is at at the time. He's working there, and she
wants everybody to know she's not moving in with Caleb. Sure,
jam but she totally is absolutely moving in with him,
and she ultimately gets engaged. In this episode, we get
the announcement of her getting engaged, and it's sweet and
they're in love and like whatever, but she's like ready
to leave. Oh yes, like coming home for like a
week and then packs up all her shit and she's like,
I'm ready to bout bye.
Speaker 1: Well, I thought that it was interesting that her best
friend and I'm skipping ahead a little bit because they
go out to dinner with her best friend Desi, and
Cody of course has to insinuate himself into the dinner
because it was a dinner for Desi to actually meet
me Caleb. But Cody's there, Christine's there, and Janelle's there,
and anyway, Desi says at some point something like, well, yeah,
she's been talking about you for three years. Three years,
three years, so I think right here, Maddie is nineteen
years old. Yeah, she's only been to college for one year,
so she's dropping out of college, I do believe, because
she was going to college in Utah. Now she's moving
up to Billings, Montana. She's been talking to him for
three years, so since she's sixteen years old, according to Desi,
and that's when Caleb was twenty six or twenty seven.
So I know Caleb's great. I know they're happy. In
the Year of Our Lord twenty twenty six, more power
to them. They got four kids and everything. But you
can't tell me that's not weird. You can't tell me
that's not grooming or something. If he was talking to
her for three years. And then they kind of talk
about how they had spent a night when they first
met up on a mountain with the four wheeler talking
and so was Mattie sixteen years old when that happened.
Was Caleb twenty six? I don't know. It's just gross.
Speaker 3: Well, and did you notice that when Desi brought that up,
like she's been talking about him for three years, Maddie's like, no, no, no,
it was like two years. So if she is nineteen
at the time of this recording, that would put her
at seventeen talking about him. So she's like trying to
skirt it a little bit. Yes, And it's like, okay,
let's just call it as it is. It's weird to me.
And it's also crazy that the family is like so
gung ho and so supportive about it, like they're not
even and I because they like Caleb. They think that
he's a good guy.
Speaker 1: It's also part of their culture to marry children. Totally,
so totally. I mean, I know they deny this, but
I'm talking about like Mormonism and fundamentalist Mormonism, and they
are fundamentalist Mormons. It is part of their culture to
exploit children. Well in this way.
Speaker 3: I was also thinking about Michelty and Tony because I
know that with Mannye and Caleb. They want to get
married right away. They get engaged and they want to
get married less than a year out in June or whatever.
I know that Tony and McKelty start having a relationship
pretty quickly right around this time, and then McKelty also
wants to get married pretty close to Madison because she's
kind of competing with her and she wants the attention
or whatever. But I remember the episodes where mckelti's introducing
Tony and her relationship with him, and everybody's like, not supportive.
They don't like Tony, right, And I just think that's
kind of fucked up. Like, so we're really happy that
Madison's dating a thirty year old dude and like he
probably groomed her allegedly or whatever. But when we have
Tony and michelt then it's like, you guys are too young.
I remember Christine's like, you're too young, you're rushing it,
you don't know if you like him or whatever, And
I just think that that's so lame.
Speaker 1: Well yup, and we have to ask ourselves the question,
is it because McKelty is the black sheep and maybe
she's a bit more childlike and is this an actual
protective instinct for Christine and Cody or is it because
they're racist maybe, or is it because, like a lot
of us, when we first met Tony, we did not
like him because he was strange. Look sure, she's very strange,
look yes, but he was also very tat told too
money and this and that. This is why we call
him too many tacos Tony, because he's asking for a
lot and not giving much in return. So we were
put off by him. But when you do compare it
to Caleb and Maddie, it seems quite unfair.
Speaker 3: And it's like you cannot like your kid's significant other
or like not prefer them or whatever. And I get
that that's fine, but it's the fact that they just
like weren't even supportive of the relationship in general that
I'm just like, okay, but we're fine with nineteen year
old Mattie right marrying a thirty year old Okay, whatever,
because they're in love, and because more importantly, Cody loves Caleb,
and like that's a theme for the first half of
this episode, is like Cody obsessed with Caleb, Like Maddie
comes home to visit and also pack up all our
shit so she can move to Montana, and then Caleb
joins with his big old truck, and Cody's like, man,
I love your big old truck, and like, can I
drive up in the truck with you and hang out
with you on the drive. I know that you want
to like be with my daughter like any normal boyfriend,
but you know, can I drive in the truck with
you and talk with you and have some man time?
Speaker 2: And like everybody in.
Speaker 3: The family is talking about how obsessed Cody is with
Caleb and how they think that maybe Caleb's just being
nice to him and probably doesn't like him. It's just
weird to me me too, the blanket support and everything.
But I also thought it was interesting how like Cody
was kind of sentimental, like really sentimental with Maddie in particular,
and how Christine made a comment about how Maddie had
always been a daddy's girl and you know, Cody was
her rock and now he flashed forward to twenty twenty
six and she's like no contact with him and calling
him a narcissist and that sucks, man, It's really shitty.
But I liked some of the moments with Cody just
being really sweet with Madison and how he wants to
be involved in like the wedding venue process and like
planning her wedding, and when she's moving out, Robin wants
to give her her broken down, krusty ass old couch,
and Cody wants to fix it for Maddie right away
before they pack it up because he doesn't want to
send her home with a shitty couch.
Speaker 1: It feels genuine, right, Yeah, like a dad, which is
so strange. It's super Usually it's all for the cameras
and maybe there's some of that as well, but he
does seem to have a particular affection for Maddie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 3: It's sad how it's devolved to the point where he's
no contact with her and no contact with the majority
of his og children. But like, I don't know, looking
back on it, I know we hate Cody, I know
he's a monster or whatever, but there's like these little
glimmers where I'm like, well, he did love his kids
at one point, yes, you know, And so that's kind
of the first portion of the episode is Maddie moving
out and she's in love with Caleb or whatever, and
then you know, Robin's big and pregnant and she's getting
an ultrasound to make sure her baby's in the right position.
Speaker 1: Did you see her stretch marks?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I'm just going to point it out every time it
comes up, because Robin made that iconic statement about how
Cody was such a good man because he loved the
OG three even though they were out of shape and
had stretch marks. But you know, when she lifts her
shirt and we do the ultrasound, we see a bunch
of stretch marks there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like we're gonna body shame the other women, right,
But you have stretch marks too, And Cody doesn't care
no obviously, But she's checking out on her baby, and
she's like moving stuff around at her house that way
some baby can share rooms. And it's just like every
time there's a segment that's like focused on Robin, I
just don't give a shit.
Speaker 1: I go, I go somewhere else.
Speaker 3: Dimensionally, it's like I can't feel anything for her other
than hatred.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there were moments in this episode where I wondered
as well whether she was being genuine, particularly with her
support for Mary. Uh huh. So, I mean I think
she's still somewhat human in these earlier seasons, but she's
definitely tipping over into gargoyle.
Speaker 3: Litt Yeah, and like, you know, we've talked at length
about the theory of like was Robin planning from the
very beginning? Did she start planning after the legal divorce?
Like when did her devilishness take over? And I don't
know if you support the idea that maybe Robin wasn't
evil from the very beginning. I could see how watching
this back, maybe this was like the point with the catfishing,
where like Robin started to crystallize into her demonic form
because she realized, like, oh, everybody here's fucked up. Let
me manipulate the situation even more to make sure I
secure my empire and secure my dragon hoard, and I
can live. I can live my life with my knee in,
you know, Because there were some moments too that I
was thinking, hmm, maybe you are a little human, I
don't know, yeah, or maybe this is just pregnancy Robin hormonal, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right, can't help but have a little empathy. I'm not sure.
And that's the sad part is that we can't be
sure we really based on what we've seen in later seasons,
she's so terrible.
Speaker 2: She is really really awful and so fake, Like.
Speaker 1: How do you get that terrible? If that wasn't inside
you all the whole time?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Exactly?
Speaker 3: Was there anything else at the beginning of this episode
before we get to the catfish conversation, I mean.
Speaker 1: We did travel up to Billings. We moved Maddie into
her very small home. It was very cute. As soon
as I saw it, I'm like, Caleb's going to live
there with you? Totally. I think y'all are banging.
Speaker 3: I was gonna ask about that because I'm like, yeah,
y'all are fuck I think so.
Speaker 1: I mean, if he's twenty six and talking to a
sixteen year old, you have to ask yourself why, what's
the impulse and the instinct. It's probably sexual in nature.
I would not be a bit surprised. I would imagine
that they're boinkin' for surely.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But Maddie wants us to know that she's not
moving in with Caleb. He's got his own place down
the street or something.
Speaker 1: Right, because a producer actually asks her directly, like is
Caleb going to live with you? And she kind of smiles,
She's like, oh no, no, no, not all he is. Yeah,
they're having sex totally. They're fucking hardcore. I can't blame him.
I mean, oh, I mean he's old. But like when
I was young and married when I was eighteen, your
horny is when I was dating him before. I was
just returned from Fiji on a mission, not a Mormon
mission but an Evangelical mission and.
Speaker 2: Man making out everybody, that's right.
Speaker 1: Met my husband, my first husband, I was eighteen years
old and we lived together first.
Speaker 3: And did you have sex before marriage like a heathen?
Speaker 1: I sure did a lot. I was my Samoan husband. Honey. Yeah,
it's a long story.
Speaker 3: I don't think we've told them this story. We won't
probably not.
Speaker 1: We could, but I mean not now. Maybe at some
point maybe on Patreon. Yeah, they did have a first
husband that I married at a very young age, and
he was a Samoan man. Yeah, the Rock.
Speaker 2: I had a lot of firsts with him.
Speaker 1: I did he did anyway?
Speaker 2: Anyway, the Catfish. So back in Vegas, Yes, after.
Speaker 3: We've moved Maddie into her house with her living boyfriend
to a.
Speaker 1: Fan who's grown a doll, a grown thirty year old man, right.
Speaker 3: We returned back home and we congregate at Mary's sad,
dour house with her ugly furniture terrible, and all of
the family, like all of the adults come over along
with Nancy the.
Speaker 2: Therapist to have a very in depth discussion.
Speaker 1: What good is she? I mean, I know we're about
to get into the scene, but like, what does she contribute?
She's a horrible She just taking fucking notes, that's all
she's doing. She's terrible.
Speaker 2: And she sat down.
Speaker 3: I literally laughed out loud because she's like, so tell me,
I don't tell me about the catfish Mary. And then
it's just like a conversation between the five adults and
she's just sitting there observing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you're no doctor.
Speaker 1: Orna, no, and we're not trying to get into the
truth of what actually happens so that we can heal
this family. You're just a production plant helping them to
whitewash this entire situation and continue to lie. Great job,
Nancy the therapist.
Speaker 3: She doesn't do anything therapeutic at all, Like she doesn't
challenge anybody, She doesn't ask anybody to like reevaluate their
perspective on it. Like she just sits there and is
like validating everybody.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how were you not challenging Mary in this moment.
It's maybe it's something you would do in individual therapy,
but y'all chose to sit down, the five of you
in front of Nancy, and you're just going to let
Mary lie anyway, I'm jumping ahead, go on, girl.
Speaker 3: Well, we start off with Mary again talking about how
she had planned to tell the family about what was
happening in Alaska, and then when she had sat down
at the dinner table or whatever at that restaurant, she
started talking to them and then realized that it wasn't
the best time to ruin this beautiful vacation by talking
about her online affair, and so she kind of skirted
around it, didn't tell them until after everybody was super shocked,
and Mary to the camera says, there were a lot
of details that I revealed to the family that were very,
very shocking to them, and I know that there's a
lot of her feelings.
Speaker 2: So we got to talk about it.
Speaker 3: And like again, the way that we introduce it with
Nancy there is victimizing Mary about how she was taken
advantage of. We hear from Robin on the Couch a
lot a lot actually with her commentary about how they
were all very hurt and betray you and felt like
this was a big shock. Robin is the one, like
you said, who uses the word affair, and she says
that that was her first impression of this whole situation,
but then as she learned more about it, she realized
that Mary was abused.
Speaker 1: Did she even say that? Did she negate the affair?
I think she did?
Speaker 3: Did? She was like it, I realized it wasn't that. Yeah,
But I'm like, okay, I know you and Cody are
talking about it as if it's an affair.
Speaker 1: We know you've deployed Kendra to be in the middle
of the cat fish situations, so you and Cody have
been on this the entire time.
Speaker 3: And what's crazy is Mary in this episode was saying
that she told the whole family together after the Alaska trip,
but then with Nancy, Nancy asks Mary, when did you
finally decide to come clean and tell everybody the truth?
Mary says, well, actually I told only Robin first. Because
the family was again at another family trip for Hunter.
I think it was some like ceremony for him or whatever,
and they were all staying in hotels and Mary went
into Robin's hotel room and broke down sobbing and told
her everything, and then they told the rest of the family.
Speaker 1: So I just don't know when the family actually knew.
And that's kind of what's driving me a little crazy
because I've felt in Alaska like they all knew already.
Speaker 3: It kind of felt like that a little bit, but
the way that Mary was saying it was like she
wasn't telling him the whole truth. And we kind of
talked about that last week about how the way it
was framed and filmed in Alaska felt like she wasn't
saying what it actually was.
Speaker 2: Like she was just saying, I'm gonna leave.
Speaker 1: And wouldn't everybody like say something about that, Like right,
I would stop what I'm doing, would put my fork down,
like what do you mean you're gonna leave? Like we're
a family, what are you talking about? Nobody did that.
This is why I think they already knew about it,
that this is just them trying to rugsweep.
Speaker 3: I think a lot of this is damage control and
like them trying to keep everything together because they don't
want to lose their TLC contract, not like they would.
Speaker 2: Because TLC feeds off of this shit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they love the family destruction narrative.
Speaker 1: Gosh, I bet the ratings were great during the Catfish.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: We got a couple comments on Patreon saying that, like
the Catfish was what actually saved the show because the
show was so fucking boring, and like you guys know
from our recaps of season nine, for the majority of it,
it was hell boring, Like there wasn't a lot of
substance there, so, like I could see even back then
people seeing like who even watches the show?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: Who even cares about these people? But then the Catfish
comes out and ratings are skyrocketing, so I don't know
who knows when the family actually found out the truth
about this whole thing. I think you're right. Mary was
probably forced to have this conversation. I think a lot
of this was like damage control, just trying to protect
the narrative because, you know, we get into it and
Robin says, you know, I realized that it wasn't an affair.
I'm paraphrasing. I realized it wasn't an affair. Mary was
being emotionally blackmailed, and then we have this whole like
thing from Mary about I'm threatening and it was abused,
and it was scary. I was trying to protect everybody.
Speaker 1: Anytime I wanted to be with my family, they got
so upset. So I had to isolate myself in a
top with a banana. I have no other choice. Meanwhile,
you listen to these recordings, Mary is drunk off her ass,
like two am in her haunted house, talking about how
much she loves Sam. So she's drinking, she's internet whuring,
and we're supposed to just sit here. I mean, I'm
sure if the audience says listened to that, we're just
supposed to sit here and listen to you. Lie. Mary,
Such a fucking liar, dude.
Speaker 3: Literally, the only kernel of truth in terms of like
Mary saying she was taken advantage of is the fact
that this was a catfish. This was a woman who
had a blog who was like cataloging all of this
stuff to kind of I don't know what her motivation
was for catfishing Mary in this way, but like just
you know, cataloging everything and then exposing her like that. Yeah,
that sucks, Sure, that's exploitative totally. I kind of wonder though,
whether Jackie, the real catfish, actually had feelings for Mary
like actually wanted to pursue it or something, because she
did meet Mary a couple of times.
Speaker 2: They took fucking photos together.
Speaker 1: I think she let Jackie into her house. Yeah, so
I think Jackie was maybe into her, but yeah, she
was keeping records.
Speaker 3: And so that's shitty. Yeah you know, but but you're
a TV personality.
Speaker 1: You walked right into it, dummy, and that's my thing.
You took pictures, you left messages, that's my thing. How
are you this dumb? Like you did twenty fifth days?
Speaker 3: You did all this and like Mary to the family
with Nancy is saying shit like I had to withdraw
from the family because I was afraid and this person
was threatening me and abusing me and being very verbally
like mean to me, and I was worried about what
they would do to our family. I was worried about
what they would do to our business. Like she was
like saying all of these things as reasonings for not
hanging out with the family, not seeing the kids, not
being friends with Robin essentially, But those voicemails that you
can still listen to on YouTube, it's crazy, like you
were just going going home and sexting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jackie, you were on the phone all the time.
Your other sister wives noticed it, and Cody starts talking
about how he would come over and she was on
the phone the entire time. She was making friends on
social media, and Cody was like, I think you should
be careful. But Mary was not listening to Cody, And incidentally,
I think Leon at the same time was telling their mother, like,
you shouldn't be talking to this person. And Leon knew
at the time that Mary was absolutely engaging in an
emotional affair and tried to tell Mary that, but Mary
didn't listen to Leon either, And so Cody is trying
to advocate for himself and say something like, well, but
I was here and you turned me away and you
didn't want to spend time with me. Is that because
you had feelings for this person? And I hate to
how Mary dances around this, because she says at some
point something like, well, you know, he did say that
Sam the Catfish, he did say that he had love
for me. And Janelle tries to help her here and says, oh, gosh,
that must have been so strange for you and uncomfortable,
and Mary's like, no, no, no, I mean I was flattered,
but she doesn't say what we hear in the recordings,
which is that she loved Sam too and she was
all in at the time. She just dances around it
and tries to frame it as her being lonely, all
alone once Leon went away to college, and Mary's in
this haunted house all by herself. She doesn't have any friends,
even though in season twenty and in season nineteen we
see all the friends that she used to have in Vegas.
So did these people know? Like I don't know? But
she tries to frame it as she was so confused
after her divorce from Quarter and it was still alone
and nobody comes over and talks to me, and so
I was vulnerable and they took advantage of meat. No, bitch,
you had an affair.
Speaker 3: Because your husband sucks, like right, all of that shit
is valid. It's valid feel lonely, it's valid to feel
abandoned in your relationship. Because Cody did abandon her. He
wasn't touching her poon any for many years prior to
the catfish we know this now, and he wasn't visiting her.
She kicked him out of his house. He didn't nurture
their relationship at all. And even Cody says in this
episode that he is at fault a little bit for
this because he didn't take care of their relationship. He
didn't press her when she was trying to push him away.
He just let her push him away. He just didn't
care about it. And he acknowledges that they were struggling
for many years in their relationship and that led Mary
to be very vulnerable. So, like, all those things are valid.
We're not saying that like Mary wasn't mistreated here, it's
just that Mary trying to act like this was something
put upon her, like she was targeted. She literally says
that to some gang stocking horde.
Speaker 2: Of people, that's what's crazy.
Speaker 1: That's not what happened, Mary. And it's so uncomfortable for you,
apparently to look in on yourself and check your own
character here the part of you that would be willing
to have an affair on Cody. And I'm wondering how
long she was talking to Sam, Like was this even
before the legal divorce? When did it start exactly in
terms of that timeline, I'm not sure I can tell though,
Like during the adoption, during the legal marriage to Robin,
Mary has already checked out totally. It feels to me
like she was probably talking to Sam for a bit
longer than that, Like, I just you did something very wrong,
and yes, you have every reason to feel the way
that you did. And she even starts to cry and says, yeah, Cody,
I was really angry at you.
Speaker 2: Okay, I get there.
Speaker 1: Cody's Sucksacity's a narcissist, is flamboyantly gay. I would have
a problem with that as well. But like, can we
talk about the part that you participated in? Can we
talk about how you contribute to this fucked up relationship?
Can we talk about your integrity and where it went
since you've got on the phone with a banana in
your mouth? No, apparently not. And this is why let
me just say this. Let me just say, like anybody
who's signing up for these worthy up classes or seminars
or whatever, even when by season twenty when she's sitting
down in the tail alls with Sukiana talking about the
catfish but not owning it, she's still not owning it
in twenty twenty five, twenty twenty six, and she wants
to act as some sort of a mentor or guru
on how to live your best life and have integrity
and be healthy, Like, no, you can't do it unless
you own what you did.
Speaker 3: And that's the part that's so fucking frustrating about it
because you can see, you can see that she had
every reason to be checked out of the marriage with
this because her marriage was objectively awful. Okay, but it
doesn't mean that it's okay to go online and have
an emotional and lou ky sexual affair with somebody online
when you're sending them dirty pictures of you suck it
on a banana.
Speaker 1: They were probably masturbating on the phone, they were having
phone sex.
Speaker 3: Come on and look like I love that for Mary.
I want her. I want her to have like a
healthy sexual relationship with somebody who cares about her, who's
passionate about her whatever, and like I want her to
not be with Cody. But it's the fact that this
whole thing with the catfish is just framed like Mary
was targeted. And it's so funny because Robin and Christine
and Janelle, while they're sitting with Mary in this in
this living room, are all saying, like the Mary we
know would never fall for stuff like this, Like how
could you be so vulnerable? How could you be so stupid,
so stupid essentially to fall for shit like this. And
Janelle even says that, like to the camera, like I
can't believe Mary would ever fall for something like this.
This is crazy to me that she would ever even
believe the words coming from this person outside of our family.
And Janelle just chalks it up to being naive and
you know, not understanding that this could happen to their family.
But they're all right, Like, Mary, how could.
Speaker 2: You fall for something like this?
Speaker 3: This is honestly stupid, And like I get it, you're vulnerable,
you're lonely or whatever, but just have the courage, yes
to say, you know what, Cody, our marriage sucks because
you suck and you haven't loved.
Speaker 1: And I suck too, and I said too. Throughout this relationship,
I did a lot of things wrong. And I understand
why you feel estranged from me, and I feel a
stranged from you exactly.
Speaker 3: So like, let me leave peacefully. I'll still be a
part of the family as a friend or whatever, but
like I'm done with you because I want to get
my kuchie wet, you know, like, just have the courage
to say that. But she doesn't, and that's what sucks.
And to your point, the fact that she hasn't even
admitted to the full extent her responsibility with this to
this day, to this day, right, is even worse.
Speaker 1: And she's going to go on to have a major
falling out with Leon. This and Leon confronts Mary and
still Mary can't admit it.
Speaker 3: And like, watching this back, I was honestly feeling so
much empathy for Leon and I was actually feeling like, yeah, no,
wonder Leon was so fucking mad at Mary, Because if
I was Leon, I would be just as pissed and
I would be a total bitch to my mom if
she was acting like this, especially if I had heard
the conversations right, Like we know Leon had overheard a
lot of these phone conversations with Mary, because Mary was
again stupid enough to have these conversations in front of
her childlife.
Speaker 1: I wonder if Mary was talking to Leon about it.
Speaker 2: Oh, I could see that too, And that's gross.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's terrible.
Speaker 3: That's a terrible place to put your kid.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I just want to say again, and I've
said this before, but how much more interesting would this
have been if we did have the full conversation with
Mary and with Cody, in which she said, yeah, I
haven't had sex with my husband first seven years. At
this point, like he never comes over, and I feel
really lonely and I feel isolated. I don't know what
I'm going to do next with my life. And yeah,
I was vulnerable, but I was really looking for connection.
I was really looking for companionship and the thought that
this handsome businessman might be interested in me. Like I
just lost my mind and I absolutely went full on
into an emotional affair. And I was wrong for that.
I should have had those conversations with Cody, and he
should have had those conversations with me, And furthermore, we
should all be having these conversations with each other instead
of pretending to be this upstanding Mormon family, which we
are not. Yeah, like that, to me would have been
so much more interesting, and how many of us would
have rallied for Mary. I would have been like, listen,
that's shitty that you did that, But the way that
you explain that makes me understand you and also have
a lot of compassion for you. But she's so invested
in her persona and how she appears to others that
she's not willing to admit it, and I want wonder
if she's even willing to admit it to herself.
Speaker 3: I think that's the real issue, is that she can't
admit it to herself because it's so shameful. Like the
act of cheating on your spouse in this way, like
would be very shameful, and you would feel a lot
of regret and you'd be like, why did I do that?
You know, like, and I get that, and I have
empathy for that, but still, it's what you did.
Speaker 2: That's just it.
Speaker 1: It's just what you did.
Speaker 2: That's it's as simple as that.
Speaker 1: M h, it's you did. And also if you want
to move on into some sort of mentorship role with somebody,
like it makes you have social currency and social trust
when you actually divulge the things that you did incorrectly
and then kind of contextualize that and like and this
is how I learned, and this is how I am
now doing better in my life, and this is how
you can do better too. But when you can't even
admit your fundamental flaws. And she does it to this
day on her Instagram with all her therapy words, and
she'd never says anything with all those words, you pretends
she's got this great life and she's really got the
key to success. No, you don't, because you cannot admit
to even yourself that you had a hand in fucking
this all up.
Speaker 3: And like, furthermore, what can you really learn about yourself
or about your life, or about love or whatever from
this situation if you can't be real about it, Like
if everything in life is supposed to teach you something fundamental,
like and you're supposed to gain wisdom from it, Like,
you can't really gain wisdom from something that you can't
admit the full truth about. Like, it's just it's weird
to me. And you know, she talks about wanting to
meet up with Sam slash Jackie because she had had
an inkling that he was lying or whatever. She wants
us to believe that that's the reason why she wanted
to meet this person.
Speaker 1: To me, that you're a real person.
Speaker 3: But like the fact that you did that also behind
everybody's back is crazy, because what if Sam was real,
then what would you have done?
Speaker 1: She would have left immediately, she would have run off
with him exactly, no questions asked, exactly.
Speaker 3: And it's weird to me that she had all these conversations,
right with Jackie on the phone. And I think people
have said that Jackie was like using some voice altering
software or whatever. But Leon, I think was it Leon
or Christine? I forget somebody had said in the family
that when they had overheard the conversations, like you could
tell it wasn't a man on the phone. So then
Mary goes to Disneyland with Jackie aka Sam the Catfish
and takes photos with this person. Yes, and like Jackie
looks like a big old basbian. Okay, let's just be real,
total total lesbian.
Speaker 1: What do you call them these days? A mask?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the proper term.
Speaker 1: Honest. What's the difference. I don't have any idea. Later,
she's not a stud, but she's masked. She's a mask.
So she's a top Okay, Like that means she's got
this strap on. Yeah, okay, she's doing she's doing break
it down for Mama over here.
Speaker 3: Yeah okay. So I'm just like wondering did she know
that it was Jackie the whole time?
Speaker 2: Like was she having a list?
Speaker 3: See the question that we have their like, but I
don't know the voicemails. Yeah, Mary was saying Sam so
way more attractive than Cody, we'll just say that, yeah,
and we'll leave it there.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's just odd to me that Mary felt like it
was okay. And that's crazy is if.
Speaker 1: She would have, just like I said, talked about this plainly,
then we could have moved on to Cody and we
could have examined what was going on with Cody to
put Mary in this kind of vulnerable situation where she
can be predated upon by somebody who's out here trying
to explain her. But because she's covering it up, because
everyone at the time knew she was lying. And I'm
talking about the dumpster and I'm talking about the audience,
like we all knew she was lying. It's clear that
she's lying.
Speaker 2: We heard the recordings.
Speaker 1: Now we're focused on you and how much you suck,
And now we're gonna focus on you and Leon and
your terrible relationship because you can't bring yourself to tell
the truth when we could be talking about how Cody
is a terrible husband to you and to everybody else exactly,
but now we can't do that, Thanks Mary.
Speaker 3: And maybe that was on purpose, Maybe they didn't want
the heat to be on Cody, like maybe this was
damage control for him because he was so concerned about
his image, and so Mary had to take the heat
for everything. I mean rightfully so because she was the
one that had the affair or whatever. But like maybe
that was the reason why we're focusing on Mary being
a victim and Mary being targeted from this online fucking
h I didn't want to I didn't want to say terrorist,
but it's like right, kind of online terrorist. They called
her a predator, like an online predator coming to me
telling me that they loved me.
Speaker 1: Like sidebar. Do y'all know that Sam slash Jackie wrote
a book.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the book is called Almost Married any RII
apostrophe ed.
Speaker 1: So this is written by the catfish. I think this
book is still obtainable. And in this book, Sam, who
again is Jackie, talks about all the conversations that he
had with Mary, all the things that she said, all
the things that went down. We need to get that book.
We should, even if it's full of shit. I still
need to read it. We can reap those recordings, don't lie.
But yeah, that when I was looking it up and
I was finding all this information, it took me to
read it. I sent you actually a screenshot of somebody
talking about something that Sam had written, either in the
blog or in the book about Mary. Maybe it wasn't
the Reddit one. Maybe it was the one from Instagram.
I think it was without a crystal ball. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So this is an excerpt from the book talking about
what Mary told Sam. So the excerpt reads, quote, we
started talking early March, and throughout the entire affair, she
told me she had stopped sleeping with him Cody, and
also had actually started sleeping upstairs in the spare room
because she didn't want him near her anymore. It was
in May when she actually kicked him out of the
house and asked him not to stay over anymore. He
fought it at first, but finally agreed, and he would
pop over to see her from time to time, but
for the most part, they wouldn't speak or see each
other for three or four days in a row. He
completely gave up trying to work on it because she
said he was done too. The marriage had been over
for years. She told me that the last straw for
her was when he took the wedding band that she
gave him during their wedding ceremony and melted it down.
He told her he didn't want it to be a
contention point with the other wives, so he had melted
it down and put into a piece of jewelry for
another daughter, not her daughter. She said, she is a
sentimental person and when he did that, it showed her
how much the marriage meant to him, which was nothing.
She said, it hurt her feelings because he could have
given it back to her to hold on to for
her daughter's future husband, or at least let her have
it for a keepsake. That was years ago, she told me,
and she told me how upsetting.
Speaker 2: It was for her, and it really hurt.
Speaker 1: So I think the reason that that's so interesting is because,
of course it comes out in season nineteen and Christine
is the one to divulge that Cody did in fact
melt down her ring. Yes, so this is years after
the catfish actually happens. So how would Sam slash Jackie
have known about that unless Mary really did tell Jackie.
And again, this is like a little tidbit that is
in the book that maybe we will cover on Patreon
because it sounds like supreme mess and I'm into it,
but I'm just like going back to how stupid Mary
has to be to devult this kind of truly sensitive
information to someone that you've never met as far as
you know, you've never physically met this person. Yes, you've
talked to them, you've had mutual masturbation or whatever, but
you don't know this person and you're talking about shit
like this family secrets like this is just wild to
me how naive you are, but also how stupid you are.
Speaker 3: And it does give credence to the fact that Mary
was very vulnerable and very lonely, and obviously she didn't
have anybody to talk to at this period in time
of her life.
Speaker 1: But I contend that she had friends. She was talking
to Jem And it's actually, why.
Speaker 3: Didn't you tell your friends, Why didn't you go over
to Jen's house if you were friends with her at
this period of time and like have a couple glasses
of wine and cry on her shoulder like a normal person.
Speaker 1: I'm sure she did. I'm sure she had already done.
Speaker 3: That maybe, but it just shows that Mary obviously was
going through a hard time, and it.
Speaker 1: Shows that she's stupid. Totally shows that she's stupid.
Speaker 3: Like why are you talking to this man that's like
this handsome supermodel or whatever? And you're like thinking that
he's a real person, that he's falling in love with you.
Like that's crazy to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think the show Catfish on MTV
was on for like four years by then. Oh yeah,
at least it was in the consciousness of humans. Yeah,
that this was happening all the time, all over the place. Like, yeah,
you didn't think to ask the question. That's I think
that's why you're sending pictures of yourself in a tub
with a banana.
Speaker 3: That's wild.
Speaker 1: It's local hoodie.
Speaker 2: That's like some teenage shit too, like, because I was
totally doing that. I was a teenager.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was talking to people online, sure, on O
Magel and like talking to total strangers and stuff. But
like I also knew that they were probably not real,
Like I also knew that they're probably fake ass profiles
and stuff like how does a grown woman well?
Speaker 1: And Jane does address how just in terms of their faith,
they're very trusting people. Yeah, I'm very naive and I'm
sure sure there's something to be said for that. But
also I wonder like where the arrested development started with Mary, Like,
is she in her mind only fourteen years old or
fifteen years old and still has all of these young
girl fantasies about romance that probably did not pan out
with Cody. Okay, get therapies, then.
Speaker 3: No, for real, go get therapy, get therapy, Leave your husband,
have the courage to leave him because he obviously fucking sucks,
and just be done with it. But that's what's crazy,
is like, So after all of this happens right with
the Catfish, we know that Mary is still trying to
tell the family that she's loyal to them. She's still
simping really hard for Cody, and she does so up until.
Speaker 2: Season nineteen, season twenty, and that's crazy.
Speaker 1: She has to be directly told by Cody multiple times
by the way that he's dead, it's never gonna happen,
we're never getting back together, in order for her to
finally walk away.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it just shows that Mary has literally no
self wary and that is sad, and I do have
compassion for that. I want her to get help or whatever.
Speaker 1: Sick of her.
Speaker 3: But even with like just the lack of self worse
and even with her being stupid with this catfish and
suck like, she still did something that was wrong.
Speaker 2: And that's like the one.
Speaker 1: She's still lying about it till today, and she's trying
to be a guide to people so they could have
better lives. Bitch, tell yourself the truth before you start
telling me what the truth is.
Speaker 3: Damn Honestly, when we get to the episodes with Leon
being pissed at Mary, I can't wait. I'm gonna be
reving for Leon. I'm just gonna let you.
Speaker 1: Know, well, I saw that preview and I was like,
get her lay on, like cut on.
Speaker 3: Of course Leon's fucking pissed because if Leon was actually
hearing the conversations, like they know their mom's full of shit?
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And I think Mary goes on like a
total campaign to win Leon over. She does even has
somebody else who is a victim of a catfish or
the same catfish come into town and take Leon out
to dinner to try and talk to Leon about how
your mother was taking it fantage of and Leon's just like,
don't bother me with this shit for real.
Speaker 3: It's also not Leon's problem, Like why are we involving
Leon in all of this? Like when Leon is what
probably eighteen nineteen at this period of time or twenty, Like,
leave Leon alone, I.
Speaker 1: Do remember Leon also telling Cody very directly, like, I
love you. My mom should not have done this to you.
I'm on your side. Yes, that had to have hurt Mary,
But Mary, you brought this on yourself. Honey. You could
have handled yourself an integrity. You could have walked away first,
and then you could have had any relationship that you
wanted to have. But no, you did it this way,
and you go without sad.
Speaker 3: And it's like, at this period of time, you still
have Christine's mom, Annie living with her, and at this
point in time, the whole family knows that Annie left
polygamy and left her first marriage because it was so
awful and terrible.
Speaker 2: So like you have an.
Speaker 3: Actual, real life example of a woman who had the
courage to leave her shitty fucking marriage and live her
best life and get remarried and move on from it.
Like it wasn't like you were like stuck in this
echo chamber, this bubble where you didn't have any example
of anybody in your community leaving polygamy like you absolutely
could have.
Speaker 2: And I feel like we've.
Speaker 3: Talked about it with these other rewinds in these earlier seasons,
Like Cody has always said, you can leave if you want.
I'm not gonna keep you here forever because I'm not
this authoritative, you know, patriarch that's like locked you in
a basement or whatever. Like you can leave if you want.
Janelle even left the marriage or like on twice and
moved out of the family, so like you could have
done it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just feel like trying to presume that Mary
was having some sort of crisis of faith really doesn't
pan out when you listen to those recordings and how
much Mary's cussing, how drunk Mary is, how she's talking
out the side of her neck about her husband. Like,
I don't know how much faith she had at that point.
Maybe she came back to faith. And she did say
at the end of the episode, like, one thing that
I got out of this terrible situation in which I
was targeted by gang stalkers is that it returned me
to my faith to some degree.
Speaker 3: Well only because she said that Sam slash Jackie was
talking about their religion right and talking shit about their
faith system, and she was like, Oh, that made me
question it and made me realize that I had to
come back to God.
Speaker 1: Okay, are right.
Speaker 3: I feel like the reality of the situation was, Oh,
maybe Sam and Jackie have a point, Maybe my religion
is bullshit.
Speaker 1: I think the reality of the situation is that at
this point, Mary's a fucking drunk, and Christine's on opiates,
and Janelle has checked out and Robin is taking all
the money. Yeah, that's the reality of the situation. But
we the audience have to sit in this room with
fucking Nancy talking about this made up situation, and for me,
it was enraging.
Speaker 3: It was pretty raging, and it was unraging for Robin too,
because she gets frustrated with Mary, and I think what
she's really frustrated with is like the whole situation, Like,
why are you guys doing this to me?
Speaker 2: I'm about to have a baby. It's all about me.
Speaker 1: It's about me. The focus should be on me.
Speaker 2: Like what the fuck?
Speaker 3: We got my dream called to sack, my dream home.
I've got my dream backyard, i got my dream.
Speaker 2: Media, full access to the LLC.
Speaker 3: Honey, I've got all the money, I've got the legal marriage,
my kids are adopted, and now you're gonna get kidded,
you fucking.
Speaker 1: I think she loved the fact that Mary got catfished
because she could come in at this point and pretend
that she was there for Mary. Right, I'm here for you, honey.
I get it you were targeted. But behind the scenes,
she's orchestrating the entire thing because she wants the downfall
of Mary. She wants to emerge as the pre eminent
head bitch in charge.
Speaker 3: I also thought it was interesting that this is like
one of the few scenes where we see Robin with
literally no makeup on. Yeah, and I'm like, huh, interesting,
interesting choice.
Speaker 1: She needs the make up, a little bit of a
lizard person right sitting down copless. God, she's pregnant, she's tired.
Any I'm not putting on makeup either, sure, but she's
a demon totally and you could see.
Speaker 2: You could the mask was off. I'm like, damn, yep,
all right.
Speaker 3: And so we kind of end the episode with Mary
kind of getting upset with Cody because Cody's expressing his
feelings about this about how He's like, I'm confused and
you pushed me out and then you had this emotional
affair with this dude and it's kind of weird to me.
And Mary says something like, well, Cody, if you had
taken better care of our relationship, Like, I wouldn't have
been so vulnerable to be attacked by this online gangstalker.
So again putting the blame.
Speaker 1: On how many men have we heard say something like
this to their wives after they cheat on them. Well,
if you would have given me the punani, I wouldn't
have had to cheat. Or well, if you would have
treated me better and I didn't feel so alone after
you had the baby, I wouldn't have cheated. It's the
same fucking thing.
Speaker 3: But we don't have sympathy for the men when they
say that. But now we have to have sympathy for Mary.
Speaker 2: She said it, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 3: And so then Cody gets up to hug Mary because
she's crying at this point, and he says it's okay,
and she apologized.
Speaker 1: But he's looking off with this thousand yard stare.
Speaker 2: He's pissed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's pissed.
Speaker 3: He's pissed and he's hurt. And honestly, I know we
hate Cody, but like, if we look at this objectively,
like I kind of get it, your wife cheated on.
Speaker 1: You based on the agreements that they all made in
this relationship, then he was betrayed, but based on the
reality that he's been cheating on all these bitches the
entire time. I don't give a fuck.
Speaker 2: And he sucks too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like you did this to yourself because you refuse
to have sex with Mary for seven years.
Speaker 1: Take care of any of your wives except for Robin.
Speaker 2: Except for Robin. So like, what the fuck do you
expect Cody?
Speaker 1: Right, he doesn't affect. He does not expect to be betrayed,
He does not expect to be disrespected as the patriarch
of this family. It is a wound to his narcissistic pride.
Speaker 3: And like I've said before a million times, like Cody
genuinely wanted all of the wives to just fall in
line and just be okay with the fact that he
would never have sex with them ever again, never nurture
their relationships, just kind of be friends or whatever, use
their money to pay for him and Robin and their
mcmanson so that way he could live.
Speaker 2: Happily ever after with her. Like that's what he expected.
Speaker 3: Yes, So like fuck Cody, Yeah, forever for her forever,
but also fuck Mary. So anyway, Cody hugs Mary and
she's crying or whatever, and she apologizes and she states
for the camera and for everybody she didn't have an affair.
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah. Lies.
Speaker 3: So then we get to the rest of the season
preview Robin's big and prego. She's getting ultrasounds, and.
Speaker 2: She ultimately gives birth to baby Ari.
Speaker 3: And you know, God bless but I don't care. We
have Maddie who's shopping for wedding dresses and ultimately we're
going to see her shop for wedding venues and I
think she gets married this season. I'm not sure. We
have Garrison talking to Cody and Janelle about joining the
National Guard, and of course we have to shit on
him for that. And we have Janelle saying that he's
seventeen so he thinks he's invincible, and you know, Cody
and Janelle are ultimately very dubious about him joining the
National Guard. We have Cody and Robin talking to Mary
about something where they say, Mary, this isn't personal, and
Mary gets kind of emotional and defensive and says, but
it kind of feels like it though, and it kind
of feels like there's a lack of trust. I'm not
sure what this is about. Yeah, And then Cody saying
to the camera that he just wants to run away.
From the Storm aka Mary. And then we have Mary
and Leon. I think this is when Leon is up
in Utah for college or something and Mary comes and
visits them, and Leon is very obviously pissed at Mary,
and Mary tries to apologize to Leon, and Leon cries
to the camera and it's like, I'm never gonna forgever,
I'm never gonna forget her, So yeah, based and then.
Speaker 2: Leon also talks about Mary's eyebrows and I can't wait
for that.
Speaker 1: I can't wait for that either. I think that's when
they're in Hawaii, when I don't know.
Speaker 3: And then the family does a prank with eyebrows. They
all draw their eyebrows on really Phe God really so
like prank Leon about it because it gets around the whole.
Speaker 2: Family that Leon was shitting on Mary for her eyebrows.
Speaker 1: Away, Leon, I mean, somebody's gotta I loved that it's
her own child that's keeping her in check.
Speaker 2: And it would be because that's usually how it is.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, we Beatrice. This was a long episode. Thanks everybody
for hanging in with us, But I mean I had
a lot of fun. I was angry, I was dubious,
I wasn't believing all the bullshit, but I was entertained
me too. Is there anything else that we need to
say to these beautiful racks before we get up on
out of here.
Speaker 3: Well, if you love our podcast, please go to your
favorite podcast platform and leave us aglowing five star review.
Speaker 2: It really helps us grow the pods.
Speaker 3: We can have more people in the dumpster and we
would really appreciate it, so thank you.
Speaker 1: We will be back next week to continue our journey
through season ten of Sister Wives Untils. Then, please do
not forget that we have nothing but love for you,
and please all guys