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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Jewish History Uncensored with Mark Shapiro. This is

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<v Speaker 1>season sixteen, episode thirty.

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<v Speaker 2>Five, and this is the thirty fifth class. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>great that we've been here so many weeks together, so

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<v Speaker 2>let us continue. I want to pick up on something

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<v Speaker 2>last week, as we always do.

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<v Speaker 1>Well.

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<v Speaker 2>First of all, we are talking about names and how

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<v Speaker 2>they were turned into and from Nat asked the question

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<v Speaker 2>about how clin becomes a cut and we gave a number,

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<v Speaker 2>and I knew there was many more. Afterwards, someone texts me,

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't mention David Weiss, who becomes Hallivni. That's a

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<v Speaker 2>good one. We have many of those. Okay, let me

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<v Speaker 2>say something else though this is not really relevant to

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<v Speaker 2>per se to anything we have done. But it's from

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<v Speaker 2>a proclass before one of the earlier series, which you

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<v Speaker 2>can go to tore in Motion. But since we've spoken

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<v Speaker 2>on aspects of Hebrew and now you're getting those who

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<v Speaker 2>are listening to ry weed or you're getting even more

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<v Speaker 2>into it, I thought i'd share it with you. I

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<v Speaker 2>think you'd find it of interest, and it relates to

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<v Speaker 2>the things that we've done in the past. Someone emailed me.

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<v Speaker 2>In an earlier show I mentioned the concept of schma

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<v Speaker 2>prose mashem. That's why I pronounced it for now. This

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<v Speaker 2>is the means that God watches over the simple people.

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<v Speaker 2>And this is derived in the taumud that and you

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<v Speaker 2>see this going throughout then that if something is done

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<v Speaker 2>by many people, we assume even if it could be dangerous.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm not going to say it's forbidden because so

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<v Speaker 2>many people are doing it. Uh. And there's many, many discussions.

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<v Speaker 2>Ever mosta Finction actually mentions this. That's the basis of

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<v Speaker 2>his response, I'm about permitting smoking. Of course, it was

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<v Speaker 2>later pointed out years later has pointed out that only

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<v Speaker 2>applied when it wasn't so clear that it was forbid,

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<v Speaker 2>that it was really dangerous. But once if it's a

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<v Speaker 2>vadi danger, then you don't have this concept of God

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<v Speaker 2>protects the simple. Now I just mentioned so, so why

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<v Speaker 2>am I mention this all to you? Because the person

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<v Speaker 2>who wrote to me wrote, schomer passim sfardak, you'd say, patim,

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<v Speaker 2>and I want to show you something here. Now, this

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<v Speaker 2>is the sort of thing I think even when we're

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<v Speaker 2>long gone, I think you'll remember by the way this

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<v Speaker 2>pussuk we say it. It's in hello, we don't say

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<v Speaker 2>in our rushlo dish, it's in a hufti. But I'll

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<v Speaker 2>show you right now. Uh. But on other days we

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<v Speaker 2>say hello, we do say it. If you google, I

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<v Speaker 2>think I even have it here. Let me see I google, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I googled. Hold on a second, if you google h

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<v Speaker 2>here showmar pasaium, you could see all sorts of articles

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<v Speaker 2>on show more passim, showmre petai em. And yet I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't mention this to this person who emailed me, but

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<v Speaker 2>he might be listening. Now. If you look in the

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<v Speaker 2>pussok the pussocks into Hillem one sixteen, we know this pussic.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll have to keep smell because I said it's in hello,

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<v Speaker 2>look in pussockvove. The word is not schomer passim, even

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<v Speaker 2>though I grew up saying showmar pasaim. Also, if you

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<v Speaker 2>look carefully, you see it's show meer pasa yim. That's

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<v Speaker 2>how it has to be pronounced. And if you google

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<v Speaker 2>this petaim and pasaim, there are some people who get

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<v Speaker 2>it right. But uh, everyone says showmar pasilium, including if

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<v Speaker 2>you google see one of the real Godoli Strow. But

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<v Speaker 2>that's not what it says. It's pasa yim that alif

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<v Speaker 2>is not does not have a sound. Other places we

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<v Speaker 2>have the So for example, in in Peric, what peric

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<v Speaker 2>is this until the one nineteen If you look at

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<v Speaker 2>verse one thirty, the last word, it's pessayem and that's

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<v Speaker 2>how you have it. In many places. In Tanach the

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<v Speaker 2>root is pay tough youod pessi petti uh, so it's

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<v Speaker 2>pesa yim. Why there's an oliph there, it's not clear,

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<v Speaker 2>but we have this this idea that you have olives

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<v Speaker 2>which are are not pronounced. I'll give you another one

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<v Speaker 2>if you want to see an olif that's not pronounced.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of people get this wrong, including people who

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<v Speaker 2>have the name. What am I speaking about? So for example,

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<v Speaker 2>we have the name Daniel. Maybe some of the people

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<v Speaker 2>listening to us are Daniel. And then you have the

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<v Speaker 2>female name Daniella. So if the affreage person, if you

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<v Speaker 2>ask them the name, how to pronounce the name, they'll

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<v Speaker 2>say Donielle, donnie and an L. That's say, under the

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<v Speaker 2>alephf Donielle Doniella and yet and that's how it's uh

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<v Speaker 2>written in the English. I want to show you this though.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's the Book of Daniel. Take a look at there

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<v Speaker 2>he is. And in verse eight or number verses, how

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<v Speaker 2>is it written? It's written Donny yale. That's how the

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<v Speaker 2>name is pronounced. It should be d A n I

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<v Speaker 2>y e y l don. Then it's a dugation it

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<v Speaker 2>because it's the Donni yelle, that's how the name is pronounced.

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<v Speaker 2>And doni yella it's the name of my daughter. But

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<v Speaker 2>uh so we have lots of examples of this. Incidentally,

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<v Speaker 2>this is a good one. I like, uh here I

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<v Speaker 2>pulled it up before. Uh. This is in Bob midbar

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<v Speaker 2>Perico levin U plus a Dallad. Almost everyone when they

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<v Speaker 2>pronounced this word, the first word they say hasafsuf. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not it's hassafsuf. The oliph is not pronounced. Even though

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<v Speaker 2>the word is asafsuf. Uh it's not pronounced. Uh okay,

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<v Speaker 2>and we'll we know this the word ban nechA your sons.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't pronounce the the urinate.

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<v Speaker 1>So well.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of examples. Oh one more I brought up

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<v Speaker 2>here in benching here looking Tillham thirty four, verse ten.

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<v Speaker 2>Many people say, you're your ou it's yeru ushem. The

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<v Speaker 2>alephi is not pronounced so for the person who asked

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<v Speaker 2>me about the question about Ramosha Feinstein and Paseim that

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<v Speaker 2>got me off into that. Let me put this down here. Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>The other thing I want to just pick up I

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<v Speaker 2>don't have so much like in previous weeks is I

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<v Speaker 2>want to return and I think Rabarie lay for mentioning

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<v Speaker 2>a few things. Just so we mentioned the last class

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<v Speaker 2>with Ramanosha Cline and a couple of things here I

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<v Speaker 2>want to show you by the way, I when I

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<v Speaker 2>listened to it, I saw I made a mistake. No

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<v Speaker 2>one pointed this out. I said that Ramanosha c Line

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<v Speaker 2>and Elieuisel were at Buchenwald and then Auschwitz. Of course

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<v Speaker 2>it's the reverse. They're now Schwitz and then Ay they

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<v Speaker 2>were being tryed. Uh uh. They come from the Hungary

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<v Speaker 2>and being they were deported there and then at the

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<v Speaker 2>end they they moved them to Buchenbault. I mentioned, I'll first,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll show you something interesting. I mentioned, uh, how Ramanasha

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<v Speaker 2>deals with rough cook. So here let me just show you.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's one of the pages is Mishnah a Haut. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know what volume this is. Here, Oh it says

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<v Speaker 2>that says at the bottom volume ten. If you look

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<v Speaker 2>on the right hand side here, Look how we are

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<v Speaker 2>first to kiss fe Romban. Doesn't say massada of cook

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<v Speaker 2>or rov cook. It's ho sauce cook, that's all. And

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<v Speaker 2>then he has in another volume volume I found I

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<v Speaker 2>searched on the Ozerma and uh, this is from volume eight,

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<v Speaker 2>took on the left here where my marker is kiss

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<v Speaker 2>a Romban cook, so he won't even say hrov cook. However,

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<v Speaker 2>very interestingly, posthumously they published a volume of mission. He

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<v Speaker 2>didn't publish it, his children published it. And lo and

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<v Speaker 2>behold among the writings, they have a letter to none

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<v Speaker 2>other the Rabby Greenblatt, who we now know well. And

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<v Speaker 2>look what he writes in the letter. He writes right

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<v Speaker 2>at the bottom there he writes, Rebbi green Blad has written,

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<v Speaker 2>had written to him and cited Cook, and he writes

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<v Speaker 2>back to him with the titles rof Cook. So well

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<v Speaker 2>left with the question here is it that that Rabbi

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<v Speaker 2>Greenblat changed his mind. It's it's hard to imagine because

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<v Speaker 2>we don't really have a date here, but uh, I

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<v Speaker 2>think perhaps had he published it himself, that is when

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<v Speaker 2>he wrote to Rabbi Greenblat knowing who Rabbi green Blade is,

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<v Speaker 2>he were first to of Cook. One way. We don't

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<v Speaker 2>know what Rabbi Clin would have done had he published

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<v Speaker 2>a safer himself. It could have been he would have

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<v Speaker 2>removed that, or he never published this letter. Actually this

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<v Speaker 2>letter was found among his writings. Maybe that's why he

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<v Speaker 2>didn't publish it. I don't know, but I when I

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<v Speaker 2>said he never mentions ro Cook in a positive way.

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<v Speaker 2>That was based on the old Otmo. This is the

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<v Speaker 2>new one I got recently, and in the posthumous volume

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<v Speaker 2>he has it. But we we dealt with the rohmbamb

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<v Speaker 2>last week and reby Klein's position. That's the just to

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<v Speaker 2>remind you of this, what does the Rambam say if

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<v Speaker 2>anyone who accepts upon him verses Chapter eight, verse eleven,

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<v Speaker 2>in hechris mokrim, if you accept upon yourself the fulfillment

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<v Speaker 2>of the seven mits vote, and you're precise in your observance,

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<v Speaker 2>you're considered one of the pious of the gentiles, and

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<v Speaker 2>you have a share in the world to come. And

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<v Speaker 2>then the Rambam says that only a pies if he

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<v Speaker 2>accepts them, fulfills them because God commanded them. But if

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<v Speaker 2>he does it based on his own intellectual convictions, he's

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<v Speaker 2>not a resident alien. That is, he's not a garreto chef.

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<v Speaker 2>He's not one of the pious of the gentiles, nor

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<v Speaker 2>of their wise men. That's the old the gears of Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>and we said the other gear is Elhem. So the

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<v Speaker 2>first thing is and I just want to stress this

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<v Speaker 2>because I don't know if it was clear if Barry

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<v Speaker 2>says I should stress it. The Rambamb never says incidentally here,

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<v Speaker 2>although rough Cook interprets him this way that if you

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<v Speaker 2>read it el Mehem, it doesn't mean he's saying that

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<v Speaker 2>these people have a share in the world to come.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, the source that many people think the Rambamb

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<v Speaker 2>is based on this is Madrashic source is explicit that

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<v Speaker 2>if you do the Cheva mitzlispine Noah, just for your

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<v Speaker 2>own intellectual conviction, you get reward in this world, but

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<v Speaker 2>not in the next world. So if I imply it otherwise,

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<v Speaker 2>although roff Cook does say that, then other people believe

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<v Speaker 2>that as well, because it does say that the pious

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<v Speaker 2>of the nations have a share in the world to come,

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<v Speaker 2>But that doesn't mean the Rombamb understands just pious the

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<v Speaker 2>way we think of it. Could be that the Rambam

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<v Speaker 2>understands it to mean that you have to have a

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<v Speaker 2>understanding of where these laws come from. It's hard to

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<v Speaker 2>imagine if you know the Ramans philosophy. But the rough

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<v Speaker 2>Cook himself acknowledges that, I'll be up shot. That could

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<v Speaker 2>be the read that is is a reading, and Rabari

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<v Speaker 2>Laibe shows me that the Hooter of Cook's own son

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<v Speaker 2>accepts that reading. But so I just want to mention that.

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<v Speaker 2>The other thing is that Rabarie Labe thinks that when

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<v Speaker 2>I described Ramanasha Klin is having a particulars exclusivist view,

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<v Speaker 2>it's really not correct. It's not like we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>see today the Kousenberger, because all Rabbi Manasha Klin is

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<v Speaker 2>doing is following the Rumbum the way he understands him. Well, first,

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<v Speaker 2>let me just note that the Rumbum could be understood

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<v Speaker 2>different ways as well. But second of all, what I

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<v Speaker 2>said about Ramanasha Colin is that he actually says that

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<v Speaker 2>all the non Jews are reshine because they don't observe

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<v Speaker 2>the shov myspost because God gave them, which I said

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<v Speaker 2>is a very unusual view, and you really don't find

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<v Speaker 2>that among others. It's very it's not that common, let's

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<v Speaker 2>put it that way. But leaving that aside, I myself

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<v Speaker 2>said Rabarier that the Rambam's own view is particularistic. We

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<v Speaker 2>said that I developed the whole idea, that this notion

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<v Speaker 2>that we have that anyone can have a share in

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<v Speaker 2>the world to come and all these things, and we're

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<v Speaker 2>not like that. We don't have this conception of there's

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<v Speaker 2>no salvation outside the Senegague. I said, the rumbumb doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>have that view. So I already mentioned that. What I

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<v Speaker 2>would also say, however, is that there's a reason why,

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<v Speaker 2>at least in the circles that I am, this approach

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<v Speaker 2>to the rom bomb is not so accepted because it

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't it doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel right, and

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<v Speaker 2>we have other traditions. So I do think from a

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<v Speaker 2>nashaklient has its own take on it. But I said

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<v Speaker 2>last week already, and I first want to say that

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<v Speaker 2>the rambambs it is theself particularistic because even with Ella

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<v Speaker 2>mirhach Me maybe didn't stressed enough with Ella Mihchach may

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<v Speaker 2>Am it depends how you understand a huss It is

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<v Speaker 2>a husted above or below the rachm. But listen, we

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<v Speaker 2>could find plenty of examples in the Rombomb, or may

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<v Speaker 2>not plenty a bunch of examples in the Rombomb that

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<v Speaker 2>what he says, very few people today would feel comfortable with.

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<v Speaker 2>That is the whole point of humanity is intellect, and

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<v Speaker 2>if you don't feel like an animal. There's all sorts

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<v Speaker 2>of things that the Romam says that people would not

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<v Speaker 2>feel so comfortable with the notion of a nebachapy chorus

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<v Speaker 2>that if you don't know any better, you're a heretic

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<v Speaker 2>notion in the world to come. We'll get into this later,

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<v Speaker 2>the dispute and the realm and the rife, but there's

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<v Speaker 2>many things in the rom Bomb that are just they're

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<v Speaker 2>hard to stomach today for people because we have another

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<v Speaker 2>tradition also that just emotionally we're more attached to. That's

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<v Speaker 2>not to say the realm's not right, but at the

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<v Speaker 2>end of the day, we can never determine who's right

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<v Speaker 2>on these things, so it makes sense that people are

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<v Speaker 2>more inclined to one versus the other. Okay, let's leave

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<v Speaker 2>that there, and let's move on. Okay, my friends, we

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<v Speaker 2>are picking up in the safer number one twenty nine.

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<v Speaker 2>If you were call. This is to ramanach Amram And

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<v Speaker 2>the last thing we spoke about is I introduced you

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<v Speaker 2>to his response them. And there's a few questions. The

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<v Speaker 2>first is the rumbum that we saw where the rumbum

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<v Speaker 2>says that here we show to you again. I found

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<v Speaker 2>a number of commentaries this week. I was looking at

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<v Speaker 2>it to discussed this rumbum where are we here? It is?

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<v Speaker 2>It's in Hikos the Laws of Murder, chapter four in

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<v Speaker 2>see where is it? Test nine? Here you go. He

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<v Speaker 2>says that although there are other sins that are more

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<v Speaker 2>serious than murder, they do not present a serious danger

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<v Speaker 2>to society as murder does. Even idol worship and needles

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<v Speaker 2>to say, incests, which we said is sexual immorality and

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<v Speaker 2>the vials of shabas are not considered as severe as murder.

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<v Speaker 2>For these sins involve man's relation ship with God. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>murder is man's relationship with alow Man. So murder is

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<v Speaker 2>the worst because it leads to destruction of society and

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<v Speaker 2>idle worship and violations shabis, they're not as severe. So

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<v Speaker 2>then what are the sins that we said that are

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<v Speaker 2>more severe than murder? That was the question. So I

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<v Speaker 2>raised that too with the Rabbi Kam and he has

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<v Speaker 2>a very long response him. I'll just call attention to

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<v Speaker 2>the highlights of it, in which he goes into this

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<v Speaker 2>in great detail. He raises the question, for example, what

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<v Speaker 2>about hilahem hilasm to say, just say that you can't

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<v Speaker 2>repent for this, you can repent for for murder. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>the rombamb says that he says this in two places

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<v Speaker 2>as far as I know, and he'll three places, Kristchuva

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<v Speaker 2>and Hillstaeos. He says that a murderer has no share

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<v Speaker 2>in the world to come, But that only means if

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<v Speaker 2>you don't repent, if you repent, even a murder as

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<v Speaker 2>a share in the world to come. Now, this idea

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<v Speaker 2>of the Rumbam where he says that a murder has

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<v Speaker 2>no share in the world to come, it's hard to

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<v Speaker 2>know where this comes from. It doesn't appear anywhere in

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<v Speaker 2>the Gomorrow. There's been a lot of discussions where this

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<v Speaker 2>comes from. The Kassa Mishna on the spot says in

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<v Speaker 2>Hokros Chuva, where the rama says this that I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know where he gets this from, but we actually do

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<v Speaker 2>know where he gets it from. The Raman provides a

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<v Speaker 2>source in his commentary on Ovos, which I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if the Kssa mission had in Hebrew. He says, he

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<v Speaker 2>quotes the tota as saying as follows, for three things,

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<v Speaker 2>man is punished in this world and has no share

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<v Speaker 2>in the world to come, and one of the three

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<v Speaker 2>things is murder. Now we don't have this toa but

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<v Speaker 2>the in Peya Perikz is very similar, where it says

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<v Speaker 2>you're punished in the next world. But clearly the Rama's

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<v Speaker 2>version is that you have no share in the next world.

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<v Speaker 2>And we have other medieval sources that say this is well,

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<v Speaker 2>so maybe hil la chem is worse. He discusses that,

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<v Speaker 2>and he gives example, what's the hillah. There's been a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of discussions about hila hm in recent days. Rabai

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<v Speaker 2>ganak right, and I'm gonna come back to this in

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<v Speaker 2>a few minutes with the next part of the shuva.

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<v Speaker 2>He says, well, we are living through today. He says,

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<v Speaker 2>we are seeing the greatest Khila shem in my lifetime.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you don't know what I'm referring to you

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<v Speaker 2>just haven't been reading in the news. And he said

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<v Speaker 2>this before the Antifa actions in bene Brock and everything

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<v Speaker 2>in the last couple of days. They're going to kill

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<v Speaker 2>someone if they don't stop them. But he just he's

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<v Speaker 2>just referring to going without masks and everything. Uh So,

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<v Speaker 2>we all know the Hilo shem is and what is

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<v Speaker 2>the margive example of hila shem If a great tourist

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<v Speaker 2>scholar does something and people learn to do wrong because

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<v Speaker 2>of that, it's not just an individual problem. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>hill of shem Rashi. He cites Rashi that jtebi if

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<v Speaker 2>you cause other people to sin, that's a hill uhm.

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<v Speaker 2>And he gives all sorts of examples of hull us m,

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<v Speaker 2>and then he says if people see, no, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>need to go through all these it's mostly it's a

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<v Speaker 2>dekim do something or important people. If an average person

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<v Speaker 2>does it, it doesn't really matter. For for a long time,

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<v Speaker 2>I said that I had a sort of Hiddish that

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<v Speaker 2>there is no hil washm anymore, in a sense that

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<v Speaker 2>today you know, Jews would be arrested and do things

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<v Speaker 2>and no one will win. Jews as a whole. They

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<v Speaker 2>won't blame the Jewish people. They would say, look, we

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<v Speaker 2>know they're bad people in every group, so that's just

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<v Speaker 2>Jews doing it. But we've reached the point now where

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<v Speaker 2>I don't I think we have to say there is

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<v Speaker 2>kilos m because when you have entire communities acting like

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<v Speaker 2>they're not bound by the same walls as everyone else,

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<v Speaker 2>and with impunity or breaking it, obviously everyone's gonna look

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<v Speaker 2>at it and say that's the tora. That's what it

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<v Speaker 2>leads to. There's no escapingess anymore. But he begives other

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<v Speaker 2>then he gives other examples. So for instance, what's considered

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<v Speaker 2>a worse We like to say, we don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>say things are worse. You know, sins are worse, but

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<v Speaker 2>we do know that the punishments that's how that's one

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<v Speaker 2>way we judge how something is. And so for example, murder,

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<v Speaker 2>if you commit murder, you are you're punished with the

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<v Speaker 2>sword herik uh that they chop your head off, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So uh, that's but if you violate chabbists and other things,

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<v Speaker 2>that's scila. That's considered worse. So in a sense it's worse.

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<v Speaker 2>That could be what the Rambamb means. Now the Rambamb said,

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<v Speaker 2>though he appeared to say that Chabas is not worse.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll get back there in a minute. And Russian hora,

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<v Speaker 2>he cites this why I cited in my letter to him.

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<v Speaker 2>The Gamara says that Russian hora is the worst sin.

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<v Speaker 2>The thing is, there's many examples where they say this,

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<v Speaker 2>all the sins put together equal this, or all the

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<v Speaker 2>mits put together. Those we usually assume are hyperbole, although

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<v Speaker 2>they do say about Russian hora that, but when you

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<v Speaker 2>kill someone, you kill one person Russian horror, you kill Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>You know it's not just he killed the one, but uh,

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<v Speaker 2>it's h I mean everyone who repeats it and et cetera,

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<v Speaker 2>et cet and accepts it, you're causing all this trouble.

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<v Speaker 2>In the end, what he concludes is as follows that

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<v Speaker 2>what the Rambam means, let me show you the Rambamb

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<v Speaker 2>again inside so you can see what he's how you

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<v Speaker 2>have to read it. And it's not just him, it's

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<v Speaker 2>or Nahama Benevich. If you look at Anakharma Benevich's commentary.

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<v Speaker 2>He also says that since we know that stoning is

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<v Speaker 2>worse than let's say herig with the sword. Therefore, certain

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<v Speaker 2>things are worse. So, for example, he says, here, although

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<v Speaker 2>there are sins that are more serious than murder, they

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<v Speaker 2>do not present as serious as danger a society as

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<v Speaker 2>murder does. Then he says, even idle worship, and he

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<v Speaker 2>will say incestor violence and shabas are not considered as

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<v Speaker 2>severe as murder, for these sins involved man's relationship with God. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>murder also involves man relationship with his fellow man. What

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<v Speaker 2>you have to read it is that when he says

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<v Speaker 2>that even idle worship is not considered as severe as

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<v Speaker 2>murder with regard to this idea that he says in

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<v Speaker 2>the previous sentence that they don't present and the serious

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<v Speaker 2>danger society as murder does. But from another standpoint, idolatry

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<v Speaker 2>is even worse than murder. From so, when the ram

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<v Speaker 2>mom says that there are other sins that are more

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<v Speaker 2>serious than murder, he's referring to all these other ones.

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<v Speaker 2>But when he says they do not present a serious

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<v Speaker 2>a danger society as murder does. That's when he says

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<v Speaker 2>idle worship it's only that it doesn't present this serious

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<v Speaker 2>dangered society. But in other respects, it's worse. That's the

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<v Speaker 2>best you can do. And that's what Nahara and Benovich says. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>when you have you can judge in a verra two ways.

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<v Speaker 2>You can judge it by what the punishment is, or

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<v Speaker 2>you can judge it by its effect in society. And

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<v Speaker 2>that seems to be the way to read the Rumbam

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<v Speaker 2>that in terms of effect on society, murder is u

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<v Speaker 2>is the worst, but other sins are worse in other ways.

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<v Speaker 2>Look idle worship, he says. Idle worship in this respect

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<v Speaker 2>is not as serious because it doesn't present a danger

385
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<v Speaker 2>to society. I'm not sure why. I understand why. I mean, murder,

386
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<v Speaker 2>you kill someone. But if everyone started, if you start

387
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<v Speaker 2>worshiping idols, if you start violating shabis, that will spread

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<v Speaker 2>to society as a whole. So that would need to

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<v Speaker 2>be expounded upon as well. But we can leave that

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<v Speaker 2>the second part of the question. It was a short one.

391
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<v Speaker 2>I just asked him about using a tape recorder. Remember

392
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<v Speaker 2>tape recorders, most of us remember tape recorders. Can you

393
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<v Speaker 2>or on a computer? Actually a yes, but the same thing,

394
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<v Speaker 2>tape recorder? Can you erase God's name? I mean, I

395
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<v Speaker 2>knew the answer. I'm just as curious the sources, and

396
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<v Speaker 2>of course the answer is yes. Because it's not written,

397
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<v Speaker 2>it's not considered a permanent writing, and therefore the answer

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<v Speaker 2>is you can. The last question, though, is the really

399
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<v Speaker 2>interesting one, and that is I asked him about psychological

400
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<v Speaker 2>reasons for violating Schawbis. The question is as follows. Let's

401
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<v Speaker 2>say the doctors say that this person has to smoke

402
00:22:58.519 --> 00:23:00.480
<v Speaker 2>because if he doesn't smoke, he's gonna go crazy and

403
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<v Speaker 2>it could cause his death. Who knows he couldn't jump

404
00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:05.839
<v Speaker 2>off a roof, he could, uh, he could, uh, he

405
00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:08.279
<v Speaker 2>could harm himself, all sorts of things. He needs to

406
00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:11.000
<v Speaker 2>smoke on shabs and you can give many examples of

407
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<v Speaker 2>this that someone psychologically needs psychological I need to turn

408
00:23:14.599 --> 00:23:17.039
<v Speaker 2>on the television. If I can't, I'm telling you I'm

409
00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:20.960
<v Speaker 2>gonna kill myself. Of course, this raises the question. People

410
00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:23.400
<v Speaker 2>could always threaten to do things, but what do you do?

411
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:26.440
<v Speaker 2>And before we read his response, I want to remind

412
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:28.359
<v Speaker 2>you of what the post sake in Lakewood said. I

413
00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:30.359
<v Speaker 2>played this for you once, but it was a long

414
00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:32.400
<v Speaker 2>time ago, so I'm gonna play it for you again.

415
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:36.720
<v Speaker 2>And uh oops, I got to share the sound. Also

416
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:40.640
<v Speaker 2>listen to this because this will be Uh. This is

417
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:43.559
<v Speaker 2>eye opening, but is not gonna see be what Robert

418
00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:45.920
<v Speaker 2>Hacham says. And I don't know how far you take

419
00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:48.279
<v Speaker 2>this here he is he says it, and then it

420
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:51.359
<v Speaker 2>wasn't clear. Perhaps he says it again. Listen carefully.

421
00:23:53.920 --> 00:23:58.119
<v Speaker 3>I posted listen in the pastaisa. I want to make

422
00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:05.240
<v Speaker 3>it clear now. Anybody in recovery, anybody doing a step

423
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:12.319
<v Speaker 3>work and has a haushash that he needs help. He

424
00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:17.200
<v Speaker 3>has to make sure that his recovery is rock solid.

425
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:20.799
<v Speaker 3>He has a haushage that he has to call a meeting,

426
00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:26.319
<v Speaker 3>call into a zoom meeting, attend the meeting, call.

427
00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:29.480
<v Speaker 2>Up, attend the meeting. That means getting in your car

428
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:30.640
<v Speaker 2>and driving to the meeting.

429
00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:38.680
<v Speaker 3>I guess sponsor whatever shouldn't make anyes, No, shouldn't make anyus.

430
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:41.440
<v Speaker 3>He has to make sure not to start on that

431
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:46.160
<v Speaker 3>slippery slope. Forget about shoppers, forget about you have to

432
00:24:46.279 --> 00:24:49.920
<v Speaker 3>forget about him, kipper. You have to make that call

433
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:52.599
<v Speaker 3>and you have to log on. You have to attend.

434
00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:57.839
<v Speaker 3>You must avoid that slippery slope. Baby shold should bench

435
00:24:57.960 --> 00:24:59.799
<v Speaker 3>just all have a hormonos on old us.

436
00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:00.599
<v Speaker 1>He you can.

437
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:08.119
<v Speaker 3>Pasking this lionester before. I want to make it clearer now.

438
00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:21.319
<v Speaker 3>Anyone with mental health issues, behavioral problems, addictions working on

439
00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:29.400
<v Speaker 3>a slow steps na essay doesn't matter. He has to

440
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:35.200
<v Speaker 3>make sure that his recovery is rockstylidy. Has to stay

441
00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:39.519
<v Speaker 3>away from the slippery slope. If he thinks he and

442
00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:47.799
<v Speaker 3>she thinks this shosh that he must speak to a sponsor.

443
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:53.359
<v Speaker 3>He must travel to a meeting, join a zoom meeting.

444
00:25:55.000 --> 00:26:01.079
<v Speaker 3>Whatever it is. Whenever shop is young doesn't make a difference.

445
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:04.680
<v Speaker 3>He should not hesitate. We shouldn't think maybe maybe it

446
00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:08.799
<v Speaker 3>isn't He should make sure. He should make that cool.

447
00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:12.400
<v Speaker 3>He should log on whatever it is. He has to

448
00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:17.480
<v Speaker 3>reach out to help, to sponsor to a meeting. You

449
00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:20.279
<v Speaker 3>must get help, and has to stay away from the

450
00:26:20.359 --> 00:26:27.640
<v Speaker 3>slippery slope. This is a poster. Baby should have a moment.

451
00:26:28.839 --> 00:26:31.039
<v Speaker 2>Okay, he says, it's a posture to aha. Here we

452
00:26:31.160 --> 00:26:33.640
<v Speaker 2>deal with someone. If you in some program, Let's say

453
00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:36.599
<v Speaker 2>you're acovering alcoholic, you're a covering drug addict or something,

454
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:39.000
<v Speaker 2>and you feel it's a problem, and you feel you

455
00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:42.279
<v Speaker 2>need to call your sponsor. You're having an inclination that

456
00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:44.839
<v Speaker 2>you're gonna you want to take some drugs or something.

457
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:47.000
<v Speaker 2>You can get in your car on Shavis and a

458
00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:49.400
<v Speaker 2>young kipper and drive to the meeting. Because of the

459
00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:53.160
<v Speaker 2>psychological thing that then you'll start. Uh, it's a slippery slope.

460
00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:56.160
<v Speaker 2>And remember this is far removed. I mean, because you're

461
00:26:56.160 --> 00:26:59.039
<v Speaker 2>allowed to violate these things for pikuokfish, but the pikook

462
00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:01.720
<v Speaker 2>nefish is not today. Presumably it's you're gonna get back

463
00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:04.319
<v Speaker 2>in that slippery slope and you won't be able to

464
00:27:04.359 --> 00:27:06.880
<v Speaker 2>pull yourself out of it, and that could be then uh,

465
00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:09.319
<v Speaker 2>you know, uh, six months a year down the road.

466
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:12.160
<v Speaker 2>So this is a very liberal sok. I think from

467
00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:14.960
<v Speaker 2>the road from the post sake there in Lakewood. Because

468
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:19.759
<v Speaker 2>of psychological reasons, Uh, you can do what you do

469
00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:22.920
<v Speaker 2>what you feel. Remember this is an independent judgment. No

470
00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:24.759
<v Speaker 2>one can tell you what to do except for yourself.

471
00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:27.480
<v Speaker 2>You're the one who's struggling with addiction, and you feel

472
00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:31.759
<v Speaker 2>you're in recovery, You're you're you feel you need to

473
00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:34.799
<v Speaker 2>do this. He says, go ahead and do this. And

474
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:37.160
<v Speaker 2>that was sort of the same question I asked. Uh

475
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:40.279
<v Speaker 2>in the book, I said that we're not dealing with

476
00:27:40.359 --> 00:27:45.559
<v Speaker 2>psychonista fascio's a matter of life and death from I

477
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:47.599
<v Speaker 2>could have said kill himself, but I said that someone

478
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:50.319
<v Speaker 2>he feels he needs to. It's that he needs to smoke.

479
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:52.799
<v Speaker 2>It's not that by not smoking he's going to die,

480
00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:58.279
<v Speaker 2>but he feels he's going to. He's going to and uh,

481
00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:03.960
<v Speaker 2>what should he do? I said this issos for psychological reasons,

482
00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:09.720
<v Speaker 2>and uh, roberta Cham says that. First of all, he says,

483
00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:13.400
<v Speaker 2>how can you Uh, smoking is a terrible thing. And

484
00:28:13.480 --> 00:28:15.880
<v Speaker 2>he goes onto a couple of pages how bad smoking is,

485
00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:18.799
<v Speaker 2>and therefore, how can we permit someone to violate, just

486
00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:22.039
<v Speaker 2>violate shop us by smoking, saying it's gonna help him

487
00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:25.359
<v Speaker 2>when we know it's bad for him. But I don't know.

488
00:28:25.519 --> 00:28:27.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you're not going to based upon the logic

489
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:30.759
<v Speaker 2>of the we just saw the rabbi, you're not gonna

490
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:34.319
<v Speaker 2>die from one cigarette, but maybe you'll you'll go crazy

491
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:35.839
<v Speaker 2>if you don't have I don't know. It was a

492
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:37.799
<v Speaker 2>theoretical case. You don't haves a kasha from the mice.

493
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:40.480
<v Speaker 2>So we say in Yeshiva, you know you have a

494
00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:42.640
<v Speaker 2>crazy case. I guess where I say, he feels he's

495
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:44.480
<v Speaker 2>going he's gonna die if he doesn't take it, So

496
00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:46.880
<v Speaker 2>don't say, well, whoever heard is such a thing that

497
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:51.799
<v Speaker 2>that's the case I'm giving you. Who knows he's recovering.

498
00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:54.799
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't have to be smoking. It could be drugs

499
00:28:54.920 --> 00:28:59.119
<v Speaker 2>and he's smoking. Uh, I don't know, Uh what do

500
00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:04.279
<v Speaker 2>they smoke? Heroin? I don't know what they smoke. And

501
00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:07.799
<v Speaker 2>his argument, basically, I'll just summarize it, is that we

502
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:12.279
<v Speaker 2>don't we don't take into account these psychological things. These

503
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:17.119
<v Speaker 2>there's there's craziness that he's going to you know, we're

504
00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:19.440
<v Speaker 2>not concerned that if he's going to smoke a cigarette

505
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:22.160
<v Speaker 2>otherwise if he don't, he'll come to a great difficulty

506
00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:24.440
<v Speaker 2>that it appears to him that he's going to die.

507
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:29.559
<v Speaker 2>He gives an example like, let's say someone said, we

508
00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:31.559
<v Speaker 2>don't we don't tell someone that they can jump off

509
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:34.039
<v Speaker 2>a roof if they say they need to jump off roofs,

510
00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:36.000
<v Speaker 2>we don't let them smoke. But that's sort of dodging

511
00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:40.599
<v Speaker 2>the issue. His fundamental point is that we don't allow

512
00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:43.839
<v Speaker 2>violation shops that people have a craziness that they need

513
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:46.440
<v Speaker 2>to do this. So I guess maybe you can make

514
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:48.880
<v Speaker 2>a distinction with the rabbi from Lakewood. It's not a craziness.

515
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:53.240
<v Speaker 2>You're calling the uh the sponsor. But if this all

516
00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:56.119
<v Speaker 2>has to do with the person's individual understanding. If some

517
00:29:56.359 --> 00:29:59.720
<v Speaker 2>guy needs to be calmed down and he feels that

518
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:01.640
<v Speaker 2>if you doesn't have the cigarette, he's gonna go crazy

519
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:04.720
<v Speaker 2>and they might hurt himself and he feels that way,

520
00:30:05.599 --> 00:30:08.319
<v Speaker 2>is that really much different than what we just saw.

521
00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Someone feels he needs to drive to the sponsor because

522
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:12.640
<v Speaker 2>if he doesn't go to the sponsor, you can tell

523
00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:14.839
<v Speaker 2>him the job is he needs to do that. I

524
00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:17.680
<v Speaker 2>get the feeling that Reberchacham would say, because of his craziness,

525
00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:19.519
<v Speaker 2>that he needs to speak to the sponsor. We don't

526
00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:21.599
<v Speaker 2>let him drive on shobis to calm him down and

527
00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:23.680
<v Speaker 2>then talk him out of it. I could talk you

528
00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:25.240
<v Speaker 2>out of you don't need to drive to Joe Schmoe,

529
00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:29.680
<v Speaker 2>your sponsor. And I mean, and what is that? I

530
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:32.160
<v Speaker 2>don't know. It's a I don't know how to answer this,

531
00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:38.720
<v Speaker 2>but because I I don't know how much, so you know,

532
00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:41.880
<v Speaker 2>we we give to the individual to tell you he

533
00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:44.640
<v Speaker 2>needs to do something. At least Reverberchakam doesn't think if

534
00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:47.559
<v Speaker 2>it's a craziness, But I don't know if everyone would

535
00:30:47.559 --> 00:30:49.440
<v Speaker 2>agree with it. We just saw from the Lakewood Rabbi

536
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:52.839
<v Speaker 2>that you can just violate shobbists because someone feels they

537
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:55.799
<v Speaker 2>need to speak to a sponsor because maybe you'll fall

538
00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:59.000
<v Speaker 2>off the wagon. I think it's a very liberal sock

539
00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:02.799
<v Speaker 2>and very open minded and looking at it through a

540
00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:07.000
<v Speaker 2>psychological lens. But I wonder. I don't think Rebert Hacham

541
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:09.920
<v Speaker 2>would agree with it, and I wonder if others. So

542
00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:12.039
<v Speaker 2>that that's the you know, so it goes on like

543
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:14.799
<v Speaker 2>ten pages, it's full of learning. He was never a

544
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:18.920
<v Speaker 2>great rabbi, well known figure, but you see he really

545
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:23.640
<v Speaker 2>has his hand on many sources, and he could be

546
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:25.839
<v Speaker 2>right about this thing. Because ain't load of ourself. Then

547
00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:29.480
<v Speaker 2>if every time someone feels they but again, I won't

548
00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:32.720
<v Speaker 2>take that back. Do people really fake being suicidal? If

549
00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:35.400
<v Speaker 2>someone says I'm suicidal, I need a cigarette. If not,

550
00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:39.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna kill myself. I think psychologists, maybe we have

551
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:40.839
<v Speaker 2>some listening to us, tell us that you have to

552
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:43.160
<v Speaker 2>pay attention if someone's suicidal, and for us it might

553
00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:47.799
<v Speaker 2>be crazy. But is someone saying that so he could

554
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:50.640
<v Speaker 2>violate shopie or someone's saying it because he really needs

555
00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:54.000
<v Speaker 2>to I think the Rabbi from Lakewood's point was that

556
00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:57.039
<v Speaker 2>it's not for us the second guess they have to

557
00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:01.160
<v Speaker 2>make that decision. And so if anyone wants to do

558
00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:06.640
<v Speaker 2>some achuva or an article on psychological factors. One person

559
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:10.480
<v Speaker 2>instantly wrote me about this. He's writing this article, he says,

560
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:14.319
<v Speaker 2>on psychological factors in haw Ajah, and he thought that

561
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:19.559
<v Speaker 2>this was helpful for him. This response, Okay, everyone, we

562
00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:22.119
<v Speaker 2>are finished with this. We are now on number one

563
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:24.119
<v Speaker 2>thirty and I'm going to introduce you now to a

564
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:29.680
<v Speaker 2>new figure, very really interesting figure. And this is right

565
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:35.680
<v Speaker 2>here Rebbie Jusil j Huda Halberston, who was the Kousenberger

566
00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:41.279
<v Speaker 2>Rebbi Kousenberg, as he says, from Romania. It was different

567
00:32:41.319 --> 00:32:49.720
<v Speaker 2>parts of Europe sans Kousenberg. Kousenberg incidentally had kulos. It's

568
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:52.240
<v Speaker 2>known as it also had a big rabbi, Rabbi Glassner,

569
00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:56.079
<v Speaker 2>right Mosha Schmael Glasner, the door Revi. But so you

570
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:59.640
<v Speaker 2>have the Kousenberger Rebbi. He he suffered terribly in the war.

571
00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:03.400
<v Speaker 2>I think he lost his wife and I believe eleven children,

572
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:08.759
<v Speaker 2>and he survived and he remarried and had children. He

573
00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:11.319
<v Speaker 2>went to Israel. He established a hospital there, the famous

574
00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:16.119
<v Speaker 2>hospital in the Tanya. We have a correspondence of him

575
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:19.839
<v Speaker 2>with the Ben Gurion before he went to Israel. So

576
00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:23.559
<v Speaker 2>he really did accomplish a lot. And oh here it

577
00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:26.880
<v Speaker 2>says has seven more children. And none of us can

578
00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:31.799
<v Speaker 2>imagine the difficulty the life he had and his losses.

579
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:37.200
<v Speaker 2>So God forbid far from me to judge anything we're

580
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:40.480
<v Speaker 2>going to see here, but it's certainly something that we

581
00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:43.440
<v Speaker 2>need to examine. And I'm not in the business of

582
00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:47.279
<v Speaker 2>censoring and covering it up. It's in his faring. Some

583
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:50.240
<v Speaker 2>Hasida Gregby's are not that learned. They just have positions.

584
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:52.480
<v Speaker 2>But then you have others who are real te me

585
00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:55.839
<v Speaker 2>coming in. They recently released I had it. I mean

586
00:33:55.880 --> 00:33:58.119
<v Speaker 2>I've quote it from it, but I hadn't released it.

587
00:33:58.839 --> 00:34:03.279
<v Speaker 2>There was a conversations between Rebiriak of Weinberg and Jako

588
00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:06.720
<v Speaker 2>of Hertzog. I was claim Herzog's brother of Herzog's son

589
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:10.400
<v Speaker 2>who died young unfortunately, but U Yako Hertzug visited by

590
00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:13.840
<v Speaker 2>Weinberg in Montreal, Switzerland, and they had they have a

591
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:17.159
<v Speaker 2>tape and they transcribed it and in there Rabbi Weinberg

592
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:21.559
<v Speaker 2>speaks about a certain Hasidic Rebby as being a complete ignoramus.

593
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:25.599
<v Speaker 2>And there were Casiitic Rebby's who were When we say ignoramus,

594
00:34:26.159 --> 00:34:28.280
<v Speaker 2>I like to think when they say that, they mean

595
00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:31.639
<v Speaker 2>compared to the Lithuanian Godoli. That's what Jachoa Hertzug says

596
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:33.679
<v Speaker 2>to him. You mean you don't really mean like a no,

597
00:34:33.800 --> 00:34:36.079
<v Speaker 2>but like you couldn't even understand a missiona and Reby.

598
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Weinberg says, no, no, he was a complete ignoramus. And

599
00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:43.159
<v Speaker 2>we it's never been a job qualification to be Hasidic

600
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:45.000
<v Speaker 2>greby that you have to be a great tom Ham.

601
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:46.920
<v Speaker 2>You have to be competent, but you don't need to

602
00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:52.320
<v Speaker 2>be a great And we have examples where they're they

603
00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:54.000
<v Speaker 2>don't know very much, let's put it that way. On

604
00:34:54.039 --> 00:34:56.840
<v Speaker 2>the other hand, we have some Hasida Grebby's who were unbelievable.

605
00:34:56.920 --> 00:35:00.559
<v Speaker 2>I done nim enormous temmimim authors of swar Him and

606
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:03.400
<v Speaker 2>all the RaBaD Rebbi's, or most of them, were like that.

607
00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:08.840
<v Speaker 2>The gher Gerrosidos obviously Satmar, the Hungarian Hasido Krabby's Munkoch.

608
00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:11.480
<v Speaker 2>These are Godoli, Gadolia throw and the Monk and the

609
00:35:11.559 --> 00:35:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Koisenberger also a very very great Tam author of many

610
00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:19.800
<v Speaker 2>Sfarim and Honlah and Humish. So I mentioned that because

611
00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:22.480
<v Speaker 2>you can't put him in the category like, uh, you

612
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:26.000
<v Speaker 2>know the stam Rebbies. Now again, Rebby, you're born into it.

613
00:35:26.199 --> 00:35:27.960
<v Speaker 2>So this never, as I said, it's not part of

614
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:31.159
<v Speaker 2>the job qualification that you need to be because you

615
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:34.480
<v Speaker 2>got the throne, whether you you know, whether you have

616
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:36.639
<v Speaker 2>something profound to say or not. But he really was

617
00:35:36.679 --> 00:35:40.719
<v Speaker 2>a great tomkchm. What I began to see when I

618
00:35:40.800 --> 00:35:43.559
<v Speaker 2>started studying his writings. So this goes back already many

619
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:45.840
<v Speaker 2>many years ago. Although the letter the next letter is

620
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:49.719
<v Speaker 2>from Rabechim Rappaport to me someone we've spoken about Rabaheim

621
00:35:49.760 --> 00:35:52.760
<v Speaker 2>report is I began to see something in his writings

622
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:56.800
<v Speaker 2>that really I haven't hadn't seen in other writings, and

623
00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:02.119
<v Speaker 2>that is advocacy of not just opposition to non Jews,

624
00:36:02.199 --> 00:36:05.519
<v Speaker 2>but teaching of hatred to non Jews. I'll read you

625
00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:09.639
<v Speaker 2>some passages and this troubled me. And I understood his background,

626
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:13.559
<v Speaker 2>but I was curious as to what if by Rapaport

627
00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:17.239
<v Speaker 2>had any insights into this, What leads someone to write

628
00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:22.119
<v Speaker 2>this and actually put forth this as an ideology, an

629
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:25.880
<v Speaker 2>ideology of actual hatred, that we should raise our children

630
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:29.159
<v Speaker 2>on hatred. I'm not talking about ethnocentrism here. I'm not

631
00:36:29.280 --> 00:36:33.960
<v Speaker 2>talking about keeping to ourself that you find. Of course,

632
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:37.000
<v Speaker 2>that's the typical thing you grew up with, say society,

633
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:41.239
<v Speaker 2>and not just necessarily society. But certainly I grew up

634
00:36:41.280 --> 00:36:44.679
<v Speaker 2>hearing that in Yeshiva. But that's an ethnocentrism. It's maybe

635
00:36:44.760 --> 00:36:49.840
<v Speaker 2>a feeling of you're better, or feeling of contempt, but

636
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:56.599
<v Speaker 2>not the Hersheian idea of chosen people because chosen for service,

637
00:36:56.719 --> 00:37:00.239
<v Speaker 2>that sort of thing. But okay, that we understand. But

638
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:06.199
<v Speaker 2>actual hatred very very strange to have, at least I thought.

639
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:06.280
<v Speaker 1>So.

640
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:12.599
<v Speaker 2>I wrote to Rubli Rappaport about this, and he says,

641
00:37:12.719 --> 00:37:15.880
<v Speaker 2>you wrote to me about the shades, that there's this

642
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:20.000
<v Speaker 2>new idea of the Koizenberger that you have to usually know,

643
00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:21.679
<v Speaker 2>you have to hate the non Jews, and this is

644
00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:26.159
<v Speaker 2>a great Indian that this is one of the essences

645
00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:29.719
<v Speaker 2>of Judaism, that you should look at all the nations

646
00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:33.039
<v Speaker 2>in a bad way, that they're all bad, and that

647
00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:36.480
<v Speaker 2>I pray says that Jews should have it good and

648
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:40.119
<v Speaker 2>the non Jews should only have it bad. And I'll

649
00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:43.480
<v Speaker 2>read you some other passages. Now this these arenother sort

650
00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:46.440
<v Speaker 2>of things that obviously you want publicize and out there.

651
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:50.519
<v Speaker 2>But look, it's important to know that, uh, that it exists.

652
00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:55.360
<v Speaker 2>And also it's also the problem is when you see

653
00:37:55.400 --> 00:37:57.519
<v Speaker 2>passages like this, and there's others. I once gave a

654
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:03.440
<v Speaker 2>talk on xenophobia in among certain figures. It also complicates

655
00:38:03.559 --> 00:38:07.199
<v Speaker 2>matters because we have people who in many ways are

656
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:10.960
<v Speaker 2>great and we respect them, but they say certain you'll

657
00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:15.960
<v Speaker 2>see so I regard as outrageous things and we don't

658
00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:19.920
<v Speaker 2>disown them, and we don't reject them. We take the

659
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:22.360
<v Speaker 2>good and the bad as it were, understanding that people

660
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:25.360
<v Speaker 2>are complicated. So why does that make Why does that

661
00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:29.519
<v Speaker 2>muddy the wooters? Because other communities have the same thing

662
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:33.679
<v Speaker 2>you have. For example, in the Black community, they have

663
00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:36.880
<v Speaker 2>this relationship with Farracan, and Jews want them always to

664
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:40.119
<v Speaker 2>condemn Pharracan and everything, and they like to say, well, no,

665
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:42.679
<v Speaker 2>of course we don't believe in the anti Semitic things,

666
00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:46.039
<v Speaker 2>but we still you don't want to have a relationship

667
00:38:46.039 --> 00:38:48.000
<v Speaker 2>with Farrakan because he says all sorts of good things

668
00:38:48.039 --> 00:38:50.679
<v Speaker 2>as well, and we don't believe in throwing him out,

669
00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:52.840
<v Speaker 2>and Jews don't like that, and Jews say, no, you

670
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:54.519
<v Speaker 2>have to qutly reject it. But the problem is we

671
00:38:54.599 --> 00:38:58.079
<v Speaker 2>have it the same thing. We have people who are

672
00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:01.679
<v Speaker 2>in our community that we learn from, and yet they're

673
00:39:01.719 --> 00:39:04.400
<v Speaker 2>also we have this double where we say, well, we

674
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:07.960
<v Speaker 2>don't accept that you have. In the Muslim community, you

675
00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:11.920
<v Speaker 2>have figures who are important figures and they've said problematic things,

676
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:15.599
<v Speaker 2>and often we demand that they they throw them out,

677
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:18.039
<v Speaker 2>and it's difficult for them to throw them out. And

678
00:39:18.679 --> 00:39:20.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying they shouldn't throw them out, but you know,

679
00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:23.239
<v Speaker 2>it's difficult for us to throw people out, and we

680
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:26.239
<v Speaker 2>don't want to throw people out, and we do we

681
00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:29.039
<v Speaker 2>do the same things. So when I learned about this,

682
00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:31.599
<v Speaker 2>it became I don't have an answer to this, but

683
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:33.840
<v Speaker 2>the whole issue with them, but not just Farrican, the

684
00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:37.159
<v Speaker 2>Black community has other figures like this who've said all

685
00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:41.760
<v Speaker 2>sorts of anti Semitic or quasi anti Semitic stuff, and

686
00:39:42.119 --> 00:39:46.400
<v Speaker 2>we demand action, and yet we are in the same situation.

687
00:39:46.760 --> 00:39:49.599
<v Speaker 2>And I think you can appreciate it's not so simple

688
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:51.519
<v Speaker 2>for them to throw these people out when, on the

689
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:53.840
<v Speaker 2>one hand, have done all sorts of good things, and

690
00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:56.239
<v Speaker 2>they've said some bad things. We have things also that

691
00:39:56.559 --> 00:40:00.159
<v Speaker 2>we would find troubling, and so I don't have an answer. Sure,

692
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:02.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm just raising it. It's made it hard for me,

693
00:40:02.360 --> 00:40:03.920
<v Speaker 2>harder for me to know what to do.

694
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:04.559
<v Speaker 1>So let me so.

695
00:40:04.760 --> 00:40:09.599
<v Speaker 2>Rebby Rappaport writes back to me that, uh, this thing

696
00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:13.679
<v Speaker 2>you pointed to is found throughout his writings, and he

697
00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:16.760
<v Speaker 2>gives me all sorts of examples. He quotes for examples,

698
00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:19.599
<v Speaker 2>commentary and rummage about the non Jews, that even the

699
00:40:20.159 --> 00:40:24.280
<v Speaker 2>best of them, there's a tuma Strichhlim with snowosam. You

700
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:27.079
<v Speaker 2>have to hate them. And he says he includes in

701
00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:32.679
<v Speaker 2>this even Harassideo Mussolam, because look, Rassi muslm. But that

702
00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:34.960
<v Speaker 2>doesn't that that's between them and God doesn't mean us

703
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:40.280
<v Speaker 2>oil Lomm. It's gusso gooi woe is one who's going

704
00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:44.079
<v Speaker 2>to find something positive about the non Jews. He talks

705
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:46.679
<v Speaker 2>about when he came to Hebby Rapport goes on, I

706
00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:49.079
<v Speaker 2>don't need to cite all the passages. It's troubling for me,

707
00:40:49.559 --> 00:40:51.920
<v Speaker 2>but he talks. He quotes something from another book of

708
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:53.639
<v Speaker 2>his that when he came to America, he says, be

709
00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:56.960
<v Speaker 2>thirty years before it, after the war, and I wanted

710
00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:59.480
<v Speaker 2>to say something against the United States. Everyone looked at

711
00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:02.639
<v Speaker 2>me like I was crazy, and saying that you're thinking

712
00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:05.599
<v Speaker 2>of the non Jews in Poland And and Hungary, but

713
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:08.280
<v Speaker 2>the non Jews in America are different, and why would

714
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:12.719
<v Speaker 2>you speak this way about them? And he replies that

715
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:16.440
<v Speaker 2>it was not long before they realized that America is

716
00:41:16.519 --> 00:41:20.000
<v Speaker 2>no different. That look what Roosevelt did, that they didn't

717
00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:24.239
<v Speaker 2>bomb the trains, the tracks to Auschwitz. And he goes

718
00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:29.840
<v Speaker 2>on and on, and he says that he had experiences

719
00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:31.840
<v Speaker 2>in the war that even the so called good nan

720
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:35.800
<v Speaker 2>Jew and non Jew from Holland turned out to be terrible,

721
00:41:38.559 --> 00:41:42.119
<v Speaker 2>and he says that he says, it's true that you'll

722
00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:45.519
<v Speaker 2>find sources and he says, I've seen many Sadikim that

723
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:49.239
<v Speaker 2>would never speak bad about anyone. Remember of Cook writes,

724
00:41:49.639 --> 00:41:50.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't know he want a cooder of Cook. Maybe

725
00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:52.639
<v Speaker 2>that Sadikim is a very Joe. You know, you have

726
00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:55.000
<v Speaker 2>to love everyone and think the good of everyone until

727
00:41:55.039 --> 00:41:57.159
<v Speaker 2>you see that there's something band He says that that

728
00:41:57.440 --> 00:41:59.440
<v Speaker 2>and he says that's also found in the Holy books.

729
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Is now what we're taught that you're supposed to feel

730
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:04.480
<v Speaker 2>good about everyone and have a positive view. He says,

731
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:07.920
<v Speaker 2>that's only before we've seen biz my name you because Sheroi,

732
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:12.000
<v Speaker 2>miss rich Algol who meet us as. He says, yes,

733
00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:13.840
<v Speaker 2>it's true that in the Holy Books it says that

734
00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:16.719
<v Speaker 2>you treat everyone with dignity and you should respect everyone

735
00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:21.360
<v Speaker 2>and anything. But that doesn't apply anymore because we've gone

736
00:42:21.400 --> 00:42:23.440
<v Speaker 2>through the Holocaust and we've seen what they can do.

737
00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:27.079
<v Speaker 2>And Reboy Rappaport says that the only way to understand

738
00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:31.360
<v Speaker 2>the extreme statements of the Koisenberger is precisely because of

739
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:33.400
<v Speaker 2>what he went through during the Holocaust, and he himself

740
00:42:33.480 --> 00:42:35.920
<v Speaker 2>tells us this, but he makes it a whole theology

741
00:42:36.039 --> 00:42:38.840
<v Speaker 2>here that don't tell me. He says that the Sarium

742
00:42:38.960 --> 00:42:41.559
<v Speaker 2>say you have to relate a certain way. He says,

743
00:42:41.679 --> 00:42:43.800
<v Speaker 2>we who lived through the war while all the non

744
00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:49.000
<v Speaker 2>Jews did nothing. Uh, he says, that's different again, be's

745
00:42:49.039 --> 00:42:51.280
<v Speaker 2>my name you because Sharoi, miss Richli, we meet us as.

746
00:42:53.079 --> 00:42:56.000
<v Speaker 2>It's almost like he's acknowledging that this is what in

747
00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:58.360
<v Speaker 2>theory you should do. But it's too difficult because we

748
00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:03.480
<v Speaker 2>see how bad they are. And Rubbi rapport. Ends his letter.

749
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:10.719
<v Speaker 2>He says that after the war, the attitude was we're

750
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:14.280
<v Speaker 2>going to kill cold gooide any non Jew we see,

751
00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:16.639
<v Speaker 2>we should kill him. He says, in truth we never

752
00:43:16.719 --> 00:43:19.920
<v Speaker 2>killed anyone because a Jew is not capable of spilling blood.

753
00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:25.679
<v Speaker 2>But it's against our nature. But that's how he says

754
00:43:25.880 --> 00:43:28.159
<v Speaker 2>the feeling was, and I'm sure that was the feeling

755
00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:31.880
<v Speaker 2>Ellie Weisel at the end of Night, Actually you need

756
00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:37.639
<v Speaker 2>to Naomi Simon, who spoke for Tory Motion about bass alcohol,

757
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:39.840
<v Speaker 2>had an article she discovered us. If you look at

758
00:43:39.880 --> 00:43:44.400
<v Speaker 2>the first version of Night. In the Yiddish, he does

759
00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:48.039
<v Speaker 2>speak about revenge, and at the end of it he

760
00:43:48.199 --> 00:43:51.079
<v Speaker 2>talks about how when they got out of the camps,

761
00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:52.760
<v Speaker 2>the boys wanted to go to the local town to

762
00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:58.039
<v Speaker 2>rape German girls as revenge. But in the Night, in

763
00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:00.840
<v Speaker 2>the English version and the French version, and he says,

764
00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:03.800
<v Speaker 2>there's never any thinking of revenge, and so he really

765
00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:06.800
<v Speaker 2>changed it. In the In the the Night that's directed

766
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:10.079
<v Speaker 2>in Yiddish to Jews, there is a strong feeling of revenge,

767
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:14.840
<v Speaker 2>but in the more universalistic, humanistic and there's nothing about revenge,

768
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:19.519
<v Speaker 2>only drawing positive lessons. And Elieuisel never explained that change

769
00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:23.360
<v Speaker 2>why he changed it, and even after Simon's article appeared,

770
00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:25.760
<v Speaker 2>he was always a lie. He never explained it. But

771
00:44:27.079 --> 00:44:30.119
<v Speaker 2>Robert Airport doesn't give any insight other than this that

772
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:33.960
<v Speaker 2>we have to understand that he's responding to the Holocaust. Listen,

773
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:37.480
<v Speaker 2>it's striking. It's I wouldn't want this to be translated

774
00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:39.960
<v Speaker 2>to English. I wouldn't want this to be taught. The

775
00:44:40.039 --> 00:44:42.760
<v Speaker 2>problem is it might be being taught in certain groups

776
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:46.159
<v Speaker 2>and the Cuisenbergers, but it's such an unhealthy you know,

777
00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:49.079
<v Speaker 2>even though I can understand why he feels this, but

778
00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:57.079
<v Speaker 2>it's it's troubling to read it and look, Eliuisel lost

779
00:44:57.159 --> 00:45:01.079
<v Speaker 2>and any other people lost, terrible, terrible I but leaving

780
00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:03.159
<v Speaker 2>a side of the vesel has Yiddish, which was initial,

781
00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:05.119
<v Speaker 2>maybe the initial years of the war. I think we

782
00:45:05.199 --> 00:45:10.039
<v Speaker 2>have Juguluisel by his entire career. It's how do you again?

783
00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:12.639
<v Speaker 2>They lost eleven children and a wife. I'm not gonna

784
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:15.320
<v Speaker 2>say anything about that, but in terms of a philosophy,

785
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:18.320
<v Speaker 2>in terms of ashkafa, obviously you can't be teaching we

786
00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:21.840
<v Speaker 2>can't be teaching hatred of anyone. It's the worst thing imaginable.

787
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:24.960
<v Speaker 2>But you have this, and this is a This is

788
00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:28.639
<v Speaker 2>the Kleousenberger. He's not some nobody. And that's with all

789
00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:30.880
<v Speaker 2>the great things he accomplished. By the way he loves

790
00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:33.559
<v Speaker 2>old Jews. He says that all Jews. Whereas in certain

791
00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:36.159
<v Speaker 2>extreme Casitic groups they believe in hating those Jews who

792
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:39.960
<v Speaker 2>are heretics and who don't observe, his attitude is very different.

793
00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:45.559
<v Speaker 2>He loves old Jews. It's very Hasidic. So I don't

794
00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:48.000
<v Speaker 2>know what to make of this. You have passages like

795
00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:51.559
<v Speaker 2>this in medieval times as well. It's part of the tradition.

796
00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:55.800
<v Speaker 2>We can't hide it. Our tradition is so large you

797
00:45:55.840 --> 00:45:59.079
<v Speaker 2>can find all sorts of stuff in it. But this

798
00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:01.920
<v Speaker 2>is important for us. When you see these terrible things

799
00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:04.880
<v Speaker 2>in Christian texts, the way they describe the Jews and

800
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:08.239
<v Speaker 2>all the terrible things, understand that we've also had things

801
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:12.360
<v Speaker 2>in our text. Granted that our things are in response

802
00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:15.199
<v Speaker 2>to what they are doing to us, but nevertheless, today

803
00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:18.440
<v Speaker 2>no one's doing anything to us. And then if you

804
00:46:18.519 --> 00:46:22.559
<v Speaker 2>have this idea today, it's just there's no justification anymore.

805
00:46:23.119 --> 00:46:25.400
<v Speaker 2>So that that's the problem when you write things down

806
00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:33.440
<v Speaker 2>like this, even when there's is perhaps justification. That's Simon Kufflam.

807
00:46:33.480 --> 00:46:35.480
<v Speaker 2>And then we go to Kulam and alf and another

808
00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:43.440
<v Speaker 2>letter from reclined Rapport. This is the title of the

809
00:46:43.800 --> 00:46:46.400
<v Speaker 2>responds to miss as follows. We're on page two eighty one,

810
00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:51.400
<v Speaker 2>and this introduces us again to something we've seen already,

811
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:54.559
<v Speaker 2>necessary beliefs. I already explained to you what a necessary

812
00:46:54.599 --> 00:46:58.159
<v Speaker 2>belief is. It goes back to the rombum. The rumbum

813
00:46:58.239 --> 00:47:02.599
<v Speaker 2>in the Guide of the Perplexed, Book three, Chapter twenty

814
00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:05.920
<v Speaker 2>eight introduces us to this idea of a necessary belief.

815
00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:08.440
<v Speaker 2>The realm says, there's two types of beliefs that you

816
00:47:08.559 --> 00:47:11.400
<v Speaker 2>find in the Tora. Those beliefs which are absolutely true

817
00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:16.920
<v Speaker 2>here holding the guide for the perplex right here, for example,

818
00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:20.039
<v Speaker 2>the belief in the God's unity or that he's not

819
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:23.519
<v Speaker 2>a body. That's absolutely true. But then the remm says,

820
00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:26.159
<v Speaker 2>there's other beliefs that are taught, taught by the Torah,

821
00:47:27.119 --> 00:47:31.000
<v Speaker 2>which is necessary for the abolition of wrongdoing or to

822
00:47:31.039 --> 00:47:33.599
<v Speaker 2>get a noble quality. That is, there's other beliefs that

823
00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:37.360
<v Speaker 2>are taught not for their own sake, but in order

824
00:47:37.480 --> 00:47:41.000
<v Speaker 2>to achieve some good, some value. And he gives one,

825
00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:47.239
<v Speaker 2>for example, the belief that God has violent anger against

826
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:51.559
<v Speaker 2>those who do injustice. The Remam says that one of

827
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:53.800
<v Speaker 2>the necessary beliefs is and you could see he quotes

828
00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:57.280
<v Speaker 2>quotes a verse. What is the verse he cites? It

829
00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:00.760
<v Speaker 2>says that in this is a verse in Shimos, my

830
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:03.039
<v Speaker 2>rat shall wax hot, and I will kill and so

831
00:48:03.199 --> 00:48:09.119
<v Speaker 2>on Chapter twenty two does God have anger? Emotions? Anger?

832
00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:11.960
<v Speaker 2>God doesn't have emotions, and the Terra describes God as

833
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:14.519
<v Speaker 2>having anger. So you could say the Tarres speaks in

834
00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:17.639
<v Speaker 2>the language of man that if this was a person

835
00:48:18.519 --> 00:48:21.199
<v Speaker 2>who did this, you'd assume its anger. But the Ramum

836
00:48:21.239 --> 00:48:23.800
<v Speaker 2>doesn't say that. What he says is that this is

837
00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:29.360
<v Speaker 2>a necessary belief, that it's necessary. So what does that mean? So,

838
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:32.800
<v Speaker 2>according to the commentators in the Rambam, the standard commentators,

839
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:35.000
<v Speaker 2>what he's saying here is that the Torah teaches a

840
00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:39.639
<v Speaker 2>belief that that has a surface level and a more

841
00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:45.320
<v Speaker 2>profound level. The intellectuals understand that God doesn't have emotions,

842
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:48.119
<v Speaker 2>so when it says God gets angry, that just means

843
00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:50.000
<v Speaker 2>that God responds in a way that if it was human,

844
00:48:50.039 --> 00:48:53.639
<v Speaker 2>you assume its anger. However, it is a necessary belief.

845
00:48:53.639 --> 00:48:55.239
<v Speaker 2>If you look on the commentaris on the spot. They

846
00:48:55.280 --> 00:48:58.679
<v Speaker 2>say that the masses are supposed to take this literally.

847
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:01.880
<v Speaker 2>That is, the Torah is written on two levels. It's

848
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:04.280
<v Speaker 2>written for the masses and it's written for the elites.

849
00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:06.920
<v Speaker 2>The masses are supposed to read this, and they're supposed

850
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:10.079
<v Speaker 2>to really think God gets angry, and that'll keep them

851
00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:12.280
<v Speaker 2>in line because they don't want to get got angry.

852
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:18.800
<v Speaker 2>He's gonna get angry at them for he in his

853
00:49:18.920 --> 00:49:23.440
<v Speaker 2>letter to me, Yeah, So for example, he quotes the Barbonell,

854
00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:30.599
<v Speaker 2>he says that God Shakia ms shown me Paul, that

855
00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:33.840
<v Speaker 2>God doesn't get angry of al Sifria, Kodish, the Cyfria

856
00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:37.440
<v Speaker 2>Kodesh attributed to him Kadeg the Hafri has shown me

857
00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:41.719
<v Speaker 2>me on show. So as the Barbeau explains this, this

858
00:49:41.800 --> 00:49:44.719
<v Speaker 2>is the shot of the Ramba. The scriptures, they're not

859
00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:48.800
<v Speaker 2>just for the elites. They attribute God having anger. So

860
00:49:48.920 --> 00:49:52.360
<v Speaker 2>the masses see this, and then when they become more intellectual,

861
00:49:52.679 --> 00:49:54.679
<v Speaker 2>more advanced, they know it's not to be taken literally,

862
00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:56.880
<v Speaker 2>but they are supposed to take it literally at first.

863
00:49:57.159 --> 00:49:59.480
<v Speaker 2>This isn't like God having a body, where the Ramo

864
00:49:59.559 --> 00:50:01.559
<v Speaker 2>says every one must be taught. He doesn't have a body.

865
00:50:02.119 --> 00:50:04.159
<v Speaker 2>The mass is supposed to understand us, and the Rama

866
00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:06.840
<v Speaker 2>gives another example. He says, it's a necessary belief that

867
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:11.199
<v Speaker 2>God responds immediately. That is, if you pray well, God

868
00:50:11.239 --> 00:50:15.599
<v Speaker 2>will respond immediately. The odd the when you're more advanced,

869
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:18.000
<v Speaker 2>do you understand that's not true. If it's your time,

870
00:50:18.079 --> 00:50:19.599
<v Speaker 2>it's your time. You know, all the prayers in the

871
00:50:19.679 --> 00:50:23.280
<v Speaker 2>world aren't going to help you. But apparently the masses

872
00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:25.760
<v Speaker 2>is supposed to believe that the only reason their prayers

873
00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:28.400
<v Speaker 2>weren't answered because it didn't pray well enough. That's I

874
00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:30.800
<v Speaker 2>don't think we have masses like that this today, but

875
00:50:31.719 --> 00:50:33.960
<v Speaker 2>that's what the people, even our so called masses, I

876
00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:35.840
<v Speaker 2>think are a little more sophisticated. But I don't know.

877
00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:37.639
<v Speaker 2>If he tried to explain to the average person that

878
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:40.760
<v Speaker 2>God doesn't have anger, then maybe they'll, you know, the

879
00:50:40.840 --> 00:50:43.519
<v Speaker 2>whole reason they don't want to they don't sin, is

880
00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:50.239
<v Speaker 2>because God has anger. The Rambum gives another example that well,

881
00:50:50.320 --> 00:50:52.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't need to give up more examples. So this

882
00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:55.599
<v Speaker 2>is a major theme in the Rambu, and the scholarship

883
00:50:55.719 --> 00:50:58.239
<v Speaker 2>is always divided. So what are the necessary beliefs? The

884
00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:01.880
<v Speaker 2>Rumbum gives you two. Are there other necessary beliefs? The

885
00:51:01.960 --> 00:51:04.760
<v Speaker 2>problem seems to hint in many places that he is

886
00:51:04.840 --> 00:51:07.039
<v Speaker 2>saying things as a necessary belief. So the rem says

887
00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:09.880
<v Speaker 2>one thing in one place and more radical thing in

888
00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:13.800
<v Speaker 2>another place. The more conventional thing is out there and

889
00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:17.239
<v Speaker 2>everyone can see it. The more I guess radical idea

890
00:51:17.239 --> 00:51:19.440
<v Speaker 2>of the rom bomb he covers it up. It's not

891
00:51:19.559 --> 00:51:22.039
<v Speaker 2>so clear. It's always it's even not so clear if

892
00:51:22.039 --> 00:51:24.039
<v Speaker 2>that's what he's saying. But the Ramam in the introduction

893
00:51:24.119 --> 00:51:26.000
<v Speaker 2>to the guy tells you who's going to contradict himself.

894
00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:27.880
<v Speaker 2>And the conventional teaching is going to be out there

895
00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:31.840
<v Speaker 2>for the masses to see. And the more I guess

896
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:34.519
<v Speaker 2>profound teaching which the mass is not supposed to see,

897
00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:37.079
<v Speaker 2>you have to dig deep to get it. So the

898
00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:40.519
<v Speaker 2>rambamb already tells us therefore that he has necessary beliefs,

899
00:51:41.679 --> 00:51:43.639
<v Speaker 2>And in the Guide for the Replex he speaks about

900
00:51:43.639 --> 00:51:46.760
<v Speaker 2>other things that the masses need to accept on faith.

901
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:50.559
<v Speaker 2>But the intellectuals will understand it's not true. So the

902
00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:54.039
<v Speaker 2>big arguments among the scholars is various ideas of the

903
00:51:54.119 --> 00:51:56.639
<v Speaker 2>roum bumb is it when the realm says this thing here?

904
00:51:56.760 --> 00:51:59.079
<v Speaker 2>Is it a necessary belief or does the rom bumb

905
00:51:59.199 --> 00:52:01.639
<v Speaker 2>really believe it? So that that's an issue in the

906
00:52:01.639 --> 00:52:05.079
<v Speaker 2>scholarship of the Rambam. So I wrote this article unnecessary belief,

907
00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:07.559
<v Speaker 2>so I go through the whole debate. What I was

908
00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:09.840
<v Speaker 2>interested in doing in this article is citing, and this

909
00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:11.639
<v Speaker 2>is one of the themes I've always been interested in,

910
00:52:12.119 --> 00:52:15.480
<v Speaker 2>where you have in traditional texts the same ideas you

911
00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:20.000
<v Speaker 2>have in academic works. And he responds, I sent him

912
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:23.840
<v Speaker 2>the article ahead of time. We spoke about this article already,

913
00:52:24.440 --> 00:52:27.480
<v Speaker 2>and he said, he gave me another example of a

914
00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:33.880
<v Speaker 2>necessary belief. According to the commentary Shamptov that the Rambam says,

915
00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:42.039
<v Speaker 2>the Rambam says that there's he in one place. He

916
00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:44.760
<v Speaker 2>says that you know he employed, He says, remplies, I

917
00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:49.000
<v Speaker 2>forget now that there's no death without sin. But really

918
00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:52.000
<v Speaker 2>the Rambam believes that there is death without sin, and

919
00:52:52.119 --> 00:52:54.400
<v Speaker 2>this is just a necessary belief. That's what a commentary

920
00:52:54.440 --> 00:52:57.920
<v Speaker 2>Shumtov is. But then the rapport raises a good question,

921
00:52:58.039 --> 00:53:00.280
<v Speaker 2>which I'll try to answer now about. But I just

922
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:02.840
<v Speaker 2>told you about the necessary belief about God being angry.

923
00:53:03.519 --> 00:53:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Drum says, this is necessary belief. The mass is supposed

924
00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:08.280
<v Speaker 2>to believe this, it's a necessary belief. It's not a

925
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:10.440
<v Speaker 2>true belief. And yet if you look in the Mission

926
00:53:10.440 --> 00:53:17.320
<v Speaker 2>of Torah, right, and Duramam tells you in what chapter

927
00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:21.920
<v Speaker 2>is this? Oh, I don't even know what chapter in

928
00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:27.079
<v Speaker 2>the mission. I think it's in Hmm, I don't I

929
00:53:27.079 --> 00:53:28.960
<v Speaker 2>don't remember whi chapter of the mission tar it is?

930
00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:31.360
<v Speaker 2>But oh you hear it is perakal it off your base,

931
00:53:31.639 --> 00:53:34.519
<v Speaker 2>he says. Duruma himself says in the Mission of Torah

932
00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:37.760
<v Speaker 2>that God has no anger. And when it says God

933
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:40.639
<v Speaker 2>says I gem angry, that's supposed to be understood figuratively.

934
00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:43.760
<v Speaker 2>Sir Amrapera raised the question what's going on here in

935
00:53:43.840 --> 00:53:45.480
<v Speaker 2>the morning of him He says that this is a

936
00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:48.119
<v Speaker 2>necessary belief that the mass is supposed to accept and

937
00:53:48.199 --> 00:53:52.280
<v Speaker 2>believe that God really gets angry, and only the intellectuals

938
00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:54.719
<v Speaker 2>in all otherwise. But here you have in the Mission Torah,

939
00:53:54.920 --> 00:53:57.519
<v Speaker 2>he says, it's straight out. So how could it be

940
00:53:57.559 --> 00:53:59.559
<v Speaker 2>a necessary belief if it's in the Mission of Torah,

941
00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:03.920
<v Speaker 2>which is uh, anyone could pick it up and read it.

942
00:54:04.519 --> 00:54:08.880
<v Speaker 2>And he gives it as a question. He says, Betail Buzzamuna,

943
00:54:10.480 --> 00:54:12.639
<v Speaker 2>it says by saying it explicitly in the Mischatar, the

944
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:16.559
<v Speaker 2>rob seems to have totally abolished the necessary belief because

945
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:20.960
<v Speaker 2>he's telling everyone that God doesn't have anger. And I

946
00:54:21.079 --> 00:54:24.920
<v Speaker 2>don't think it's necessarily a contradiction, because the people who

947
00:54:24.920 --> 00:54:27.880
<v Speaker 2>are reading the Missionatara are not part of the masses.

948
00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:31.480
<v Speaker 2>They are already the elite. The Rambam when he writes

949
00:54:31.559 --> 00:54:34.159
<v Speaker 2>necessary beliefs in the Morn of Uhim, is not a soud.

950
00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:36.440
<v Speaker 2>It's not a secret. He's not hiding it. It's not

951
00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:39.239
<v Speaker 2>like some of the other necessary beliefs that the common

952
00:54:39.280 --> 00:54:41.920
<v Speaker 2>hatter's point to where you have to go beneath the surface.

953
00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:44.440
<v Speaker 2>The realm im is saying it straight out. So it's

954
00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:47.360
<v Speaker 2>so that this is he's explaining why the Tara writes

955
00:54:47.360 --> 00:54:49.719
<v Speaker 2>it in a certain way. The Missionatara is not a

956
00:54:49.800 --> 00:54:52.519
<v Speaker 2>work for the masses. And if you can read the

957
00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:55.599
<v Speaker 2>Missionataro already you're able to understand that God doesn't have anger.

958
00:54:56.440 --> 00:54:59.159
<v Speaker 2>It's not an emotion. That doesn't change the fact that

959
00:54:59.559 --> 00:55:01.519
<v Speaker 2>the average man on the street, who in the Rama's

960
00:55:01.599 --> 00:55:04.960
<v Speaker 2>day was great ignorant that it's uh It's important for

961
00:55:05.079 --> 00:55:07.239
<v Speaker 2>them to really believe that if I do this sin,

962
00:55:07.360 --> 00:55:09.159
<v Speaker 2>God will be angry at me. What you're supposed to

963
00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:11.360
<v Speaker 2>explain to the masses that God really doesn't have anger

964
00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:13.480
<v Speaker 2>and this and that that's already too complicated and there's

965
00:55:13.519 --> 00:55:16.119
<v Speaker 2>no reason to explain to them because it's not a problem.

966
00:55:16.519 --> 00:55:18.440
<v Speaker 2>To believe that God has a physical form, then you're

967
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:21.079
<v Speaker 2>a heretic. So the Rama says everyone must be instructed

968
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:24.280
<v Speaker 2>that God is a physical form, everyone including the ignorant.

969
00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:28.119
<v Speaker 2>But to think God has a God has emotions like this,

970
00:55:28.360 --> 00:55:31.440
<v Speaker 2>that's uh he until they're willing to move beyond it.

971
00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:37.760
<v Speaker 2>The Rama doesn't have a problem with this, and okay,

972
00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:41.199
<v Speaker 2>so that's uh that. That's how I would explain it,

973
00:55:41.239 --> 00:55:44.320
<v Speaker 2>although he leaves it as a question what to do

974
00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:46.679
<v Speaker 2>with that? Oh, I already see it's nine to twenty six,

975
00:55:46.760 --> 00:55:48.599
<v Speaker 2>So let me just say, well, what we're gonna get

976
00:55:48.599 --> 00:55:50.880
<v Speaker 2>into next week and then take questions next week. We

977
00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:54.159
<v Speaker 2>returned to another thing from rather Appport about the issue

978
00:55:54.199 --> 00:55:58.639
<v Speaker 2>of fear of the showgig. We all know that there's own,

979
00:55:58.880 --> 00:56:01.320
<v Speaker 2>there's show gig and me, and you do something intentionally

980
00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:04.679
<v Speaker 2>and you do something without knowing accidentally, so you don't

981
00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:08.519
<v Speaker 2>know what schabas. Let's say what about beliefs. We'll deal

982
00:56:08.559 --> 00:56:10.800
<v Speaker 2>with the major dispute between the Rama and the Riva

983
00:56:11.000 --> 00:56:13.079
<v Speaker 2>and what the lababach Rebby had to say about this,

984
00:56:14.079 --> 00:56:17.440
<v Speaker 2>That is, is there such a thing as what Rahaimslovchik

985
00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:21.519
<v Speaker 2>termed the nebahapy chorus? Can you be a heretic without

986
00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:22.239
<v Speaker 2>knowing any better?

987
00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:23.079
<v Speaker 1>Or no?

988
00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:25.119
<v Speaker 2>Do we assume that if you don't know any better,

989
00:56:25.199 --> 00:56:27.480
<v Speaker 2>you don't know any better. This is a major dispute

990
00:56:27.519 --> 00:56:30.639
<v Speaker 2>that begins in medieval times and takes us all the

991
00:56:30.679 --> 00:56:34.679
<v Speaker 2>way the contemporary days. And I raised a question because

992
00:56:34.719 --> 00:56:37.559
<v Speaker 2>there's something that labavich Rebbi said which seemed to contradict

993
00:56:37.960 --> 00:56:40.760
<v Speaker 2>everything I thought I knew about the Lbabachrebby and how

994
00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:44.800
<v Speaker 2>he related to these matters. And we'll deal with a

995
00:56:44.840 --> 00:56:47.400
<v Speaker 2>couple return to Revy Maazousi, deal with a couple more

996
00:56:47.480 --> 00:56:50.519
<v Speaker 2>things dealing with theology, and then we're going to get

997
00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:55.760
<v Speaker 2>into some some political stuff and some literary stuff and

998
00:56:55.920 --> 00:56:59.559
<v Speaker 2>historical stuff, all sorts of We're going to move into

999
00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:05.480
<v Speaker 2>area as history of of great rabbis, of a scullas

1000
00:57:05.679 --> 00:57:11.719
<v Speaker 2>some all sorts of stuff. Just wait. Ruben a Mosic,

1001
00:57:11.920 --> 00:57:18.880
<v Speaker 2>the rugged shover Delmetago, Yeshiva University, the rash bomb on

1002
00:57:18.920 --> 00:57:22.760
<v Speaker 2>the first pasoka brat chase, uh, how to pronounce certain words?

1003
00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:25.840
<v Speaker 2>There's the letters are along between read me and Rabbi

1004
00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:32.239
<v Speaker 2>Masu's Rabbi salavachik a bunch of stuff. So but where

1005
00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:36.440
<v Speaker 2>we're really uh? We now are about uh. We're less

1006
00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:38.400
<v Speaker 2>than one hundred pages from the end of the book.

1007
00:57:38.519 --> 00:57:41.760
<v Speaker 2>So we were making we're making progress here. So let

1008
00:57:41.800 --> 00:57:46.320
<v Speaker 2>me get to the questions now and see what was

1009
00:57:46.400 --> 00:57:54.000
<v Speaker 2>said here today. I learned much from the questions as

1010
00:57:54.480 --> 00:57:56.440
<v Speaker 2>Jules and Carlos at the beginning. You can see behind

1011
00:57:56.480 --> 00:57:58.960
<v Speaker 2>me have the encyclopage. Day I get here. They did

1012
00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:04.320
<v Speaker 2>a new encyclopaga about ten years ago, but I still

1013
00:58:04.440 --> 00:58:07.119
<v Speaker 2>like this one. And uh, it's still a great work.

1014
00:58:08.039 --> 00:58:10.480
<v Speaker 2>The Jewish Encyclopedia is still a good work. Believe it

1015
00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:12.599
<v Speaker 2>or not. You can go to the Jewish Encyclopedia online

1016
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:15.360
<v Speaker 2>and you can find still good articles. Obviously you needed

1017
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:18.400
<v Speaker 2>a new encyclopedia. Josan cyclopedia was before the Holocaust, before

1018
00:58:18.440 --> 00:58:20.800
<v Speaker 2>the state of Israel, before the whole twentieth century. But

1019
00:58:21.800 --> 00:58:28.000
<v Speaker 2>it's still it's still good. And that says the latest

1020
00:58:28.079 --> 00:58:30.519
<v Speaker 2>issue of the journal of Allandaver Society that arrived in

1021
00:58:30.559 --> 00:58:32.480
<v Speaker 2>the Mail a few days ago has an article with

1022
00:58:32.559 --> 00:58:35.599
<v Speaker 2>Rebbel Joseph garrel beck Offer titled Schumarasi Hashem and the

1023
00:58:35.639 --> 00:58:39.199
<v Speaker 2>novel Coronavirus. Okay, well not then you could inform him

1024
00:58:39.199 --> 00:58:44.760
<v Speaker 2>if you want that it's a pasaiem Uh. I didn't

1025
00:58:44.800 --> 00:58:47.079
<v Speaker 2>know that they they were restarting it. I'm mel set.

1026
00:58:47.079 --> 00:58:49.119
<v Speaker 2>I think that they were restarting it. I spoke about

1027
00:58:49.159 --> 00:58:53.360
<v Speaker 2>the journal. But yes, it's uh. It's pronounced uh pasaim.

1028
00:58:54.920 --> 00:59:03.239
<v Speaker 2>There's no no vow under the alphuh. So Barr said

1029
00:59:03.280 --> 00:59:05.320
<v Speaker 2>that what we saw from the rabbi from Lake who

1030
00:59:05.400 --> 00:59:08.480
<v Speaker 2>was staying for people in recovery, yeah, well what does

1031
00:59:08.519 --> 00:59:10.400
<v Speaker 2>that mean. That's what we're dealing with, someone who wants

1032
00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:14.119
<v Speaker 2>to stop what they're doing. Obviously, if anyone who wants

1033
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:17.119
<v Speaker 2>to speak into a sponsor is struggling with addiction, that's

1034
00:59:17.159 --> 00:59:22.760
<v Speaker 2>what it means. Anyone struggling with addiction and people in

1035
00:59:22.840 --> 00:59:25.760
<v Speaker 2>recovery are different than regular people. Anyone who's struggling with

1036
00:59:25.840 --> 00:59:29.760
<v Speaker 2>an addiction. And he said that explicitly, is he's including anyone.

1037
00:59:29.840 --> 00:59:31.880
<v Speaker 2>If I'm struggling with an addiction, I'm trying to get

1038
00:59:31.920 --> 00:59:36.599
<v Speaker 2>out of it. Then that's recovery. I'm trying to recover.

1039
00:59:38.199 --> 00:59:41.000
<v Speaker 2>It's not a medical thing. Anyone who's trying to get

1040
00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:43.119
<v Speaker 2>out of their addiction. If I need to speak to

1041
00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:45.159
<v Speaker 2>my sponsor, if I need to get a hold of them,

1042
00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:46.840
<v Speaker 2>he won't answer the phone because the job is if

1043
00:59:46.840 --> 00:59:48.800
<v Speaker 2>I need to get in my car and go over there,

1044
00:59:48.920 --> 00:59:52.480
<v Speaker 2>that's what he said. Suzanna says, I know of from

1045
00:59:53.199 --> 00:59:55.920
<v Speaker 2>psychiatrist who said that a particular patient with a psychotic

1046
00:59:56.000 --> 00:59:59.320
<v Speaker 2>disease should could play video games on shobists to maintain

1047
00:59:59.360 --> 01:00:02.000
<v Speaker 2>as equal librium. This is this sort of thing that

1048
01:00:02.079 --> 01:00:04.679
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how you can really give specific answers

1049
01:00:04.679 --> 01:00:07.400
<v Speaker 2>because everyone is different, and I think we saw that

1050
01:00:07.480 --> 01:00:09.960
<v Speaker 2>with what the rabbi from Lakewood says. You have to

1051
01:00:10.039 --> 01:00:12.280
<v Speaker 2>know yourself why I'm getting in the car or why

1052
01:00:12.280 --> 01:00:15.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm getting on the zoom. And obviously if you're getting

1053
01:00:15.599 --> 01:00:17.280
<v Speaker 2>on the zoom, you're not getting on to check the

1054
01:00:17.360 --> 01:00:19.360
<v Speaker 2>news and things like that. Otherwise you have the old

1055
01:00:19.360 --> 01:00:22.320
<v Speaker 2>conservative hector. You could drive to Sholann Shabis, but you

1056
01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:23.960
<v Speaker 2>can only go to show on shabas. You couldn't do

1057
01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:26.000
<v Speaker 2>anything else, and that never could last because if I'm

1058
01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:27.719
<v Speaker 2>driving to show on shobas. Then what's the problem to

1059
01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:30.159
<v Speaker 2>be stopping off at the gas station or stopping off

1060
01:00:30.199 --> 01:00:34.360
<v Speaker 2>at them? All, Howard says, was the posting from Lakewood

1061
01:00:34.360 --> 01:00:36.559
<v Speaker 2>talking about calling the sponsor or driving to the sponsor.

1062
01:00:36.639 --> 01:00:39.239
<v Speaker 2>He said both. He said calling the sponsor, which you

1063
01:00:39.239 --> 01:00:41.599
<v Speaker 2>could say is durabona. But then he says traveling. When

1064
01:00:41.639 --> 01:00:43.519
<v Speaker 2>he says traveling, he doesn't mean walking there because he

1065
01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:45.599
<v Speaker 2>doesn't have to tell you that traveling means getting in

1066
01:00:45.679 --> 01:00:48.119
<v Speaker 2>the car. I guess you'd take a cab. That's better

1067
01:00:48.199 --> 01:00:51.760
<v Speaker 2>than driving. But he said, do whatever you need to do.

1068
01:00:52.960 --> 01:00:55.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if all the other posting would agree,

1069
01:00:55.039 --> 01:00:56.360
<v Speaker 2>but that's what he says. You can can send you

1070
01:00:56.440 --> 01:00:59.360
<v Speaker 2>the link whatever you need to do, including traveling to

1071
01:00:59.480 --> 01:01:02.920
<v Speaker 2>go there. Maybe the AA doesn't you need to be

1072
01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:04.400
<v Speaker 2>there in person. You need to be at the meeting.

1073
01:01:04.480 --> 01:01:06.679
<v Speaker 2>That's the context. They have a Tuesday night meeting and

1074
01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:08.639
<v Speaker 2>you need your Friday night meeting, and you need to

1075
01:01:08.679 --> 01:01:13.119
<v Speaker 2>get to the meeting, and you can't walk there. David

1076
01:01:13.159 --> 01:01:16.239
<v Speaker 2>Eisen says Apropo Chew Vote and Mental Health and entire

1077
01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:18.039
<v Speaker 2>Safer of Chew Vote is about to be published by

1078
01:01:18.119 --> 01:01:22.840
<v Speaker 2>of the only Rosenswag entitled not very interesting, You're only

1079
01:01:22.920 --> 01:01:25.039
<v Speaker 2>rosen Swag. He actually teaches that Linden now where my

1080
01:01:25.159 --> 01:01:27.480
<v Speaker 2>daughter is. He's one of the young up and coming

1081
01:01:29.159 --> 01:01:33.519
<v Speaker 2>Rude Scionist rabbis and has written a number of volume

1082
01:01:33.559 --> 01:01:35.280
<v Speaker 2>I think it's three if I'm a mistaken maybe two

1083
01:01:35.679 --> 01:01:39.079
<v Speaker 2>of chew Vote. So he's publishing, David says on mental health,

1084
01:01:39.360 --> 01:01:42.239
<v Speaker 2>I guess he would deal with this issue of mental health.

1085
01:01:42.440 --> 01:01:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Mental health is something we know a lot more about

1086
01:01:44.360 --> 01:01:46.719
<v Speaker 2>than we know previously. If you look in the early rites,

1087
01:01:47.360 --> 01:01:52.360
<v Speaker 2>dah mentions that you know they what is the word

1088
01:01:52.440 --> 01:01:54.719
<v Speaker 2>he uses, I forget the Hebrew term. It means melancholy.

1089
01:01:55.280 --> 01:01:57.800
<v Speaker 2>It's like he speaks of having melancholy. We see earlier

1090
01:01:57.880 --> 01:02:01.800
<v Speaker 2>figures speak about you know, this bad ruach upon them.

1091
01:02:02.039 --> 01:02:06.119
<v Speaker 2>Today we would be able to categorize it very differently.

1092
01:02:06.360 --> 01:02:09.280
<v Speaker 2>And that's one of the areas I think mental health

1093
01:02:09.719 --> 01:02:12.360
<v Speaker 2>that post came today. I think I know of Usher.

1094
01:02:12.400 --> 01:02:15.119
<v Speaker 2>Weiss is also interested in that the answers you'll get

1095
01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:17.480
<v Speaker 2>will be different than years ago because we understand it

1096
01:02:17.679 --> 01:02:22.039
<v Speaker 2>much more than in previous years. Jay Yellen says perhaps

1097
01:02:22.079 --> 01:02:24.320
<v Speaker 2>an addict is viewed differently because he has an essence

1098
01:02:24.400 --> 01:02:28.000
<v Speaker 2>lost his free will, and as different stas an ordinary

1099
01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:31.039
<v Speaker 2>person who has free will. That's a very good point.

1100
01:02:32.119 --> 01:02:34.880
<v Speaker 2>That he doesn't have free will he can control, so

1101
01:02:35.039 --> 01:02:38.119
<v Speaker 2>he'd be in a different position. But I don't know

1102
01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:40.079
<v Speaker 2>the only thing I would say to that is the

1103
01:02:40.599 --> 01:02:43.199
<v Speaker 2>question I had was dealing also with someone who sort

1104
01:02:43.239 --> 01:02:47.800
<v Speaker 2>of wasn't ordinary. He felt that he had to smoke

1105
01:02:47.880 --> 01:02:49.840
<v Speaker 2>or he'd go crazy, or any you can give any example,

1106
01:02:50.239 --> 01:02:51.559
<v Speaker 2>But where do you do what I've got to say?

1107
01:02:51.559 --> 01:02:52.920
<v Speaker 2>Someone says I have to eat the tarfus or I'll

1108
01:02:52.960 --> 01:02:55.639
<v Speaker 2>go crazy. I don't know where we already mentioned the

1109
01:02:55.679 --> 01:02:57.960
<v Speaker 2>Gamur has the case. See my question was the Gamur

1110
01:02:58.039 --> 01:03:00.639
<v Speaker 2>has the case that you can't even speak to this

1111
01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:04.079
<v Speaker 2>woman that you feel you need to uh talk to

1112
01:03:04.199 --> 01:03:06.639
<v Speaker 2>even if it calls you to die because of Benosi Serrail,

1113
01:03:06.679 --> 01:03:08.519
<v Speaker 2>you'll turn the daughters of Israel to a f care.

1114
01:03:08.719 --> 01:03:10.760
<v Speaker 2>So my question was, well, maybe in that case you

1115
01:03:10.840 --> 01:03:14.599
<v Speaker 2>couldn't do that, because then you turned the Benosi ceural

1116
01:03:14.599 --> 01:03:16.440
<v Speaker 2>into afcare. But if you didn't have that, it was

1117
01:03:16.559 --> 01:03:19.239
<v Speaker 2>just between you and let's say God, you'd be able

1118
01:03:19.320 --> 01:03:21.880
<v Speaker 2>to I don't know though what the ya Yakov, I

1119
01:03:21.920 --> 01:03:26.199
<v Speaker 2>don't know, when would an ordinary person have this. If

1120
01:03:26.239 --> 01:03:30.039
<v Speaker 2>an ordinary person has such strong feelings, doesn't that make

1121
01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:34.159
<v Speaker 2>you mean they're not ordinary? I don't know Howard says

1122
01:03:34.159 --> 01:03:36.760
<v Speaker 2>the post take from Lakewood doesn't seem to be seeking theoretically,

1123
01:03:36.920 --> 01:03:39.159
<v Speaker 2>he seems to have knowledge of actual cases. Indeed he does.

1124
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:42.719
<v Speaker 2>As Barrel pointed out, this is an organization. There's this organization,

1125
01:03:42.920 --> 01:03:46.079
<v Speaker 2>what does he say, I'm moudim that deals with people

1126
01:03:46.239 --> 01:03:49.079
<v Speaker 2>with problems of substance abuse. This is a problem in

1127
01:03:49.159 --> 01:03:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Lakewood and other Hiati communities, and they recognizing that this

1128
01:03:53.119 --> 01:03:55.360
<v Speaker 2>is a reality and they have to do something with it.

1129
01:03:55.599 --> 01:03:58.679
<v Speaker 2>So uh, and they've had it, You've had overdoses, you

1130
01:03:58.800 --> 01:04:01.000
<v Speaker 2>have all sorts of things. Obviously, if someone can't get

1131
01:04:01.039 --> 01:04:04.199
<v Speaker 2>to the sponsor or can't do something and overdoses instead

1132
01:04:04.280 --> 01:04:07.800
<v Speaker 2>decides to take the drugs and ends up dying, clearly

1133
01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:10.719
<v Speaker 2>this was a mistake. And any rabbi who said to

1134
01:04:10.840 --> 01:04:14.000
<v Speaker 2>him that he shouldn't, you know, call the sponsor go

1135
01:04:14.119 --> 01:04:20.079
<v Speaker 2>on zoom has bought on his hands. By the way, well,

1136
01:04:20.119 --> 01:04:21.599
<v Speaker 2>before we go further with the questions, it is one

1137
01:04:21.639 --> 01:04:23.320
<v Speaker 2>more thing I wanted to mention, because we're talking about

1138
01:04:23.320 --> 01:04:25.480
<v Speaker 2>the Koch Newish. I forgot to mention this. I'm going

1139
01:04:25.519 --> 01:04:28.079
<v Speaker 2>to say something which I think some of people listening

1140
01:04:28.360 --> 01:04:30.559
<v Speaker 2>I might get hate mail, but it's what I think,

1141
01:04:30.639 --> 01:04:32.960
<v Speaker 2>So why don't I say it? It's my feelings. Uh

1142
01:04:33.199 --> 01:04:35.880
<v Speaker 2>Rabbi Hachan was talking about newfish and he develops what

1143
01:04:35.960 --> 01:04:39.000
<v Speaker 2>pikoch nefish is, and that because you feel you're going

1144
01:04:39.119 --> 01:04:42.039
<v Speaker 2>to well, you need to smoke it or anything like that.

1145
01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:45.800
<v Speaker 2>That's not the kooch netfish. We are living through incredible

1146
01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:49.239
<v Speaker 2>times because the whole idea of pikooch nefish needs to

1147
01:04:49.320 --> 01:04:53.239
<v Speaker 2>be rewritten or re understood, at least the way everyone

1148
01:04:53.599 --> 01:04:56.239
<v Speaker 2>thought about it. If you would have told me a

1149
01:04:56.360 --> 01:04:58.239
<v Speaker 2>year ago that we'd be seeing what we'd be seeing,

1150
01:04:58.440 --> 01:05:00.880
<v Speaker 2>we never would have believed it. Because knefish is supposed

1151
01:05:00.880 --> 01:05:02.280
<v Speaker 2>to be the biggest thing in the world other than

1152
01:05:02.559 --> 01:05:04.320
<v Speaker 2>you have to give up your life, you have to

1153
01:05:04.480 --> 01:05:07.880
<v Speaker 2>you have to violate young kipper instead of if you

1154
01:05:07.960 --> 01:05:10.480
<v Speaker 2>have to save your life. And yet we are witnessing

1155
01:05:10.880 --> 01:05:15.440
<v Speaker 2>people who have giant weddings five thousand people weddings, no masks,

1156
01:05:15.960 --> 01:05:21.719
<v Speaker 2>with no concern whatsoever about bikorochnefish. It's it's an incredible thing.

1157
01:05:21.920 --> 01:05:24.400
<v Speaker 2>People and these are the same people who are so

1158
01:05:24.599 --> 01:05:26.800
<v Speaker 2>medoctic on the small list most instant. If they've been

1159
01:05:26.880 --> 01:05:29.239
<v Speaker 2>hugging because in their court they did this, then that's

1160
01:05:29.480 --> 01:05:32.639
<v Speaker 2>that's the valuevlar. But on bikoochnetfish and isn't just the

1161
01:05:32.719 --> 01:05:36.559
<v Speaker 2>theoretical concern. The numbers in these communities are astounding and

1162
01:05:36.679 --> 01:05:39.840
<v Speaker 2>the carnage is unbelievable. How to explain this, I don't

1163
01:05:39.920 --> 01:05:42.880
<v Speaker 2>know how to explain this. I don't understand it. I

1164
01:05:43.079 --> 01:05:45.320
<v Speaker 2>what I'm gonna say now, I said people will maybe

1165
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:47.519
<v Speaker 2>will attack me, but I to me, I'm looking at it.

1166
01:05:47.599 --> 01:05:50.280
<v Speaker 2>It seems like it's reform to a type of reforign Judaism,

1167
01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:53.760
<v Speaker 2>because and I know Raby Weinberg and the Rov would

1168
01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:56.559
<v Speaker 2>agree with this. Theholahs says, for instance, if you were

1169
01:05:56.599 --> 01:06:00.199
<v Speaker 2>to say you're ill like Regelia Feinstein was, and the

1170
01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:02.920
<v Speaker 2>doctor says you will die unless you eat on young kipper,

1171
01:06:02.960 --> 01:06:05.079
<v Speaker 2>then you have to eat on goodper You can't if

1172
01:06:05.119 --> 01:06:08.280
<v Speaker 2>you say no, no, I'm too pious, I'm I'd rather

1173
01:06:08.400 --> 01:06:12.440
<v Speaker 2>die than eat. That's that's that's reform Judaism. That's your

1174
01:06:12.480 --> 01:06:15.119
<v Speaker 2>reforming Judaism. The laches you have to eat and by

1175
01:06:15.159 --> 01:06:17.840
<v Speaker 2>the way that the Sadducees were religious. The sad Ducees

1176
01:06:17.920 --> 01:06:20.960
<v Speaker 2>did dull sorts of religious things. They were more strict

1177
01:06:21.000 --> 01:06:23.440
<v Speaker 2>than the rabbis in certain areas, so were the cat rights.

1178
01:06:23.599 --> 01:06:23.679
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

1179
01:06:24.079 --> 01:06:25.719
<v Speaker 2>But that doesn't mean they weren't reformers.

1180
01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:26.119
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

1181
01:06:27.079 --> 01:06:30.280
<v Speaker 2>So I this this idea that pikouoch netfish. We are

1182
01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:33.719
<v Speaker 2>seeing that entire communities have said pikouch netfish is not

1183
01:06:33.800 --> 01:06:36.840
<v Speaker 2>applicable because we need to have giant weddings, and we

1184
01:06:37.000 --> 01:06:39.920
<v Speaker 2>need to have giant simhas, and we need to do

1185
01:06:40.039 --> 01:06:43.519
<v Speaker 2>all this. And this is piko nefish, something that we

1186
01:06:43.679 --> 01:06:48.239
<v Speaker 2>violate your young kipper for and uh and yet it's

1187
01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:52.360
<v Speaker 2>irrelevant pich ne fish. It's it's uh I I people

1188
01:06:52.360 --> 01:06:54.559
<v Speaker 2>are gonna be writing about this for years. How to

1189
01:06:54.719 --> 01:06:58.760
<v Speaker 2>explain how otherwise observing communities do not seem to care

1190
01:06:59.159 --> 01:07:02.320
<v Speaker 2>about the tourist veraibeham that you have to live and

1191
01:07:02.480 --> 01:07:09.320
<v Speaker 2>not put yourself into danger needlessly, Jay says Jako of Rebik.

1192
01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:11.280
<v Speaker 2>Kelman is a German bachelor of Canada. Yes, he was

1193
01:07:11.280 --> 01:07:13.159
<v Speaker 2>gonna be Chief Rabby of England. He was chosen, then

1194
01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:16.599
<v Speaker 2>he got ill and unfortunately he passed away. He was

1195
01:07:16.760 --> 01:07:19.440
<v Speaker 2>he became close to rob Rijak of Weinberg. He was

1196
01:07:19.480 --> 01:07:25.519
<v Speaker 2>a tumultover versus Alma Meltzer. A great figure, Bark says,

1197
01:07:25.559 --> 01:07:27.480
<v Speaker 2>the Nasha Katta and a kind of deep connection to

1198
01:07:27.480 --> 01:07:30.920
<v Speaker 2>the Kousenberger Rebbe indeed he did. You can read there's

1199
01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:34.719
<v Speaker 2>all sorts of good stuff about the Kousenberger, and they

1200
01:07:34.760 --> 01:07:38.119
<v Speaker 2>published his correspondence with Ben Goryan and his true vote.

1201
01:07:38.360 --> 01:07:40.440
<v Speaker 2>There's in the book of the Godolian that I showed

1202
01:07:40.480 --> 01:07:42.119
<v Speaker 2>you that I had that piece on the stipe where

1203
01:07:42.320 --> 01:07:47.400
<v Speaker 2>there's a thing in there about the Kousenberger. Someone privately

1204
01:07:47.480 --> 01:07:50.400
<v Speaker 2>emails me of a Rabbi Abraham Ye, doctor Abraham Torski,

1205
01:07:50.719 --> 01:07:52.559
<v Speaker 2>who also did a lot of work with addictions and

1206
01:07:52.599 --> 01:07:56.360
<v Speaker 2>mental health. I can say that, especially an addict who

1207
01:07:56.400 --> 01:07:58.280
<v Speaker 2>feels shaky in his sobriety and needs to talk to

1208
01:07:58.320 --> 01:08:00.239
<v Speaker 2>a sponsor or to go to a meeting, this in

1209
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:02.920
<v Speaker 2>indeed can be a life threatening event. The slippery soap

1210
01:08:02.960 --> 01:08:05.239
<v Speaker 2>can be very steep, and someone who has been cleaned

1211
01:08:05.239 --> 01:08:08.679
<v Speaker 2>and sober slips and starts using again is very likely

1212
01:08:08.800 --> 01:08:10.960
<v Speaker 2>to overdose since they will be using the same amount

1213
01:08:11.000 --> 01:08:14.199
<v Speaker 2>they used to stop before stopping. They could then they

1214
01:08:14.199 --> 01:08:19.640
<v Speaker 2>could tolerated dose. They cannot now I think, uh, I think,

1215
01:08:19.680 --> 01:08:22.159
<v Speaker 2>but this comes from knowing the personal sense, I mean

1216
01:08:22.359 --> 01:08:25.479
<v Speaker 2>understanding this, and it took a while for people to

1217
01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:30.319
<v Speaker 2>understand how dangerous these addictions were. And I'm not sure

1218
01:08:30.359 --> 01:08:32.560
<v Speaker 2>that all the rabbis would go as far as what

1219
01:08:32.800 --> 01:08:35.800
<v Speaker 2>we just saw with the post Sake from Lakewood against

1220
01:08:35.880 --> 01:08:39.399
<v Speaker 2>Rabbi Torski with the eye. When I was at Harvard,

1221
01:08:39.439 --> 01:08:41.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, he's famous with Abraham Torski, so people would

1222
01:08:41.800 --> 01:08:44.399
<v Speaker 2>they would confuse Abraham with Isdor Torski. They are in

1223
01:08:44.439 --> 01:08:47.039
<v Speaker 2>totally different areas and he is a big tamakochem rebby

1224
01:08:47.119 --> 01:08:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Abraham Towrski even has correspondence with the Snipler, but

1225
01:08:51.039 --> 01:08:52.800
<v Speaker 2>he's not a post Sake. I don't know if he

1226
01:08:52.840 --> 01:08:55.479
<v Speaker 2>ever gave suck on this, but you did see the soaka.

1227
01:08:55.560 --> 01:08:57.880
<v Speaker 2>This is one of the biggest post scheme in Lakewood.

1228
01:08:58.000 --> 01:09:01.319
<v Speaker 2>And I don't know anyone disagrees with what he says.

1229
01:09:01.359 --> 01:09:05.800
<v Speaker 2>I just found it interesting. Justin asked, aside from contradicting sources,

1230
01:09:05.840 --> 01:09:08.319
<v Speaker 2>how are Howard stam do with the elitarian Israel visa

1231
01:09:08.399 --> 01:09:14.960
<v Speaker 2>VI non Jews healthcare. I don't know, obviously, Jews go

1232
01:09:15.079 --> 01:09:19.119
<v Speaker 2>before non Jews in all these areas. But for him

1233
01:09:19.199 --> 01:09:23.319
<v Speaker 2>it's it's only it's not really practical. It's all theoretical.

1234
01:09:23.359 --> 01:09:25.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's not practical in a sense that how

1235
01:09:25.319 --> 01:09:27.560
<v Speaker 2>we deal with them per se. It's just an attitude.

1236
01:09:27.640 --> 01:09:33.640
<v Speaker 2>He's presenting an attitude, and he himself acknowledges that because

1237
01:09:33.680 --> 01:09:37.920
<v Speaker 2>of what we saw during the Holocaust, we can't view

1238
01:09:38.079 --> 01:09:40.279
<v Speaker 2>non Jews. Maybe the non Jews the olden days were

1239
01:09:40.279 --> 01:09:42.159
<v Speaker 2>better than our non Jews. Our Jews are world though.

1240
01:09:42.199 --> 01:09:43.960
<v Speaker 2>I think we usually assume it's just the opposite that

1241
01:09:47.039 --> 01:09:49.319
<v Speaker 2>Abba says, we pray hash you come, dumb mom. Yeah,

1242
01:09:49.359 --> 01:09:52.239
<v Speaker 2>but who is the who is the dumb mom? The

1243
01:09:52.359 --> 01:09:56.079
<v Speaker 2>mom is the the bad people, it's not. I think

1244
01:09:56.119 --> 01:10:00.560
<v Speaker 2>it was Rebbe Lao who said it yadvahev uh. I

1245
01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:03.239
<v Speaker 2>think it was very low, that we don't blame children

1246
01:10:03.319 --> 01:10:06.680
<v Speaker 2>for the sins of their ancestors, and that a new generation.

1247
01:10:06.800 --> 01:10:09.840
<v Speaker 2>It's a new generation. I mean, what are you gonna So, yes,

1248
01:10:09.920 --> 01:10:12.159
<v Speaker 2>we do pray. We're not like the Christians. It was

1249
01:10:12.239 --> 01:10:15.039
<v Speaker 2>amazed when I started working with Christians that this idea

1250
01:10:15.159 --> 01:10:18.640
<v Speaker 2>that you'd say that we want this person to be punished,

1251
01:10:18.680 --> 01:10:21.680
<v Speaker 2>and all they have this a very different perspective. Even Columbine,

1252
01:10:21.680 --> 01:10:24.680
<v Speaker 2>if you know Columbine, the uh, these kids came in

1253
01:10:24.760 --> 01:10:27.119
<v Speaker 2>and they shot up killed a number of students. Well,

1254
01:10:27.159 --> 01:10:29.560
<v Speaker 2>so they put up crosses in memory of the students killed,

1255
01:10:29.560 --> 01:10:31.079
<v Speaker 2>and then they put up crosses in memory of the

1256
01:10:31.199 --> 01:10:34.079
<v Speaker 2>killers who killed themselves, because in since they do were victims.

1257
01:10:34.479 --> 01:10:38.520
<v Speaker 2>It's I've had people tell me that that we shouldn't

1258
01:10:38.520 --> 01:10:40.880
<v Speaker 2>even wish evil on Hitler. We should hope that he's

1259
01:10:40.960 --> 01:10:43.239
<v Speaker 2>found his peace and that leave it to God. I mean,

1260
01:10:43.880 --> 01:10:45.760
<v Speaker 2>we don't have that view obviously. We say, but who

1261
01:10:45.880 --> 01:10:48.600
<v Speaker 2>is the dumb Who is the dumb one? It's it's

1262
01:10:48.680 --> 01:10:51.960
<v Speaker 2>not the it's the people who responsible for it. It's

1263
01:10:52.000 --> 01:10:54.680
<v Speaker 2>not the the innocent person, especially not the Hasidium. Most

1264
01:10:54.720 --> 01:11:01.720
<v Speaker 2>o them you can find plenty Piseiic Howard, but if

1265
01:11:01.800 --> 01:11:06.079
<v Speaker 2>you google Psayim and Petayim you will find them as well.

1266
01:11:06.239 --> 01:11:12.319
<v Speaker 2>So and David tells us the Israel Ministry of Health

1267
01:11:12.359 --> 01:11:14.479
<v Speaker 2>report today the spread of COVID among the great popular

1268
01:11:14.520 --> 01:11:18.279
<v Speaker 2>community Israel is six times that of the general population.

1269
01:11:19.079 --> 01:11:22.600
<v Speaker 2>And they announced today the Rabbi doctor Torski as coronavirus

1270
01:11:23.399 --> 01:11:27.119
<v Speaker 2>people get it even if they try their hardest. People

1271
01:11:27.239 --> 01:11:30.520
<v Speaker 2>get it doing normal things. Family members come over. What

1272
01:11:30.600 --> 01:11:34.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm referring to, though, is events when you know it's

1273
01:11:34.760 --> 01:11:37.560
<v Speaker 2>a problem when you go and you have huge weddings,

1274
01:11:37.680 --> 01:11:40.720
<v Speaker 2>which and huge events, and you have family gatherings when

1275
01:11:40.720 --> 01:11:45.359
<v Speaker 2>you're told not to, and that's exactly what happens. That's

1276
01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:49.319
<v Speaker 2>that's what I'm referring to. And I can't understand why

1277
01:11:49.359 --> 01:11:53.920
<v Speaker 2>people would do it, and it so was Avramyoshu Heschelb

1278
01:11:54.000 --> 01:11:57.720
<v Speaker 2>and Duvorolavi. I will let me just say one more

1279
01:11:57.720 --> 01:11:59.800
<v Speaker 2>thing and then one with this. So you hudn Meshi Zahov,

1280
01:12:01.079 --> 01:12:04.119
<v Speaker 2>the head of the Zaka, who comes from the most

1281
01:12:04.279 --> 01:12:08.399
<v Speaker 2>extreme you know Mtary Carter type background, has a complete

1282
01:12:08.439 --> 01:12:12.520
<v Speaker 2>turnaround and does amazing work. Well, his brother died recently,

1283
01:12:12.600 --> 01:12:14.720
<v Speaker 2>and then his mother died, and while he was sitting shiva,

1284
01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:17.199
<v Speaker 2>his father died. So if you saw in the news

1285
01:12:17.359 --> 01:12:20.600
<v Speaker 2>of Corona, you saw the great attack. He attacks the rabbis.

1286
01:12:20.640 --> 01:12:24.359
<v Speaker 2>He says they have blood on their hands because they

1287
01:12:24.399 --> 01:12:26.680
<v Speaker 2>were said, there's no big deal. You can get together.

1288
01:12:26.960 --> 01:12:29.840
<v Speaker 2>And what happened was he told his mother and his

1289
01:12:30.239 --> 01:12:32.319
<v Speaker 2>family is an extended family. They all got together for

1290
01:12:32.359 --> 01:12:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Akhnika party I look, I understand his sorrow, but you're

1291
01:12:36.560 --> 01:12:39.600
<v Speaker 2>blaming the rabbis. I don't know. Everyone needs to be autonomous.

1292
01:12:40.239 --> 01:12:42.000
<v Speaker 2>It's yeah, the rabbit I don't.

1293
01:12:42.000 --> 01:12:42.319
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

1294
01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:46.640
<v Speaker 2>Does that community in that community, Maybe it doesn't. The

1295
01:12:46.720 --> 01:12:49.279
<v Speaker 2>rabbis have I think they need to have some responsibility

1296
01:12:49.319 --> 01:12:51.399
<v Speaker 2>for not speaking out, but there also has to be

1297
01:12:51.520 --> 01:12:53.279
<v Speaker 2>some autonomy that that.

1298
01:12:53.359 --> 01:12:55.760
<v Speaker 4>They don't think of that community. Whatever the rabbi says

1299
01:12:55.840 --> 01:12:59.000
<v Speaker 4>is what they do better or worse. I'm not I

1300
01:12:59.079 --> 01:13:01.239
<v Speaker 4>don't disagree with the you're saying, but I just think

1301
01:13:02.079 --> 01:13:03.439
<v Speaker 4>that's how that community works.

1302
01:13:03.680 --> 01:13:08.319
<v Speaker 2>The rabbi say, that's taur and that's it. Heard immunity.

1303
01:13:08.399 --> 01:13:10.439
<v Speaker 2>I understand they think they think they think that they're

1304
01:13:10.479 --> 01:13:14.439
<v Speaker 2>immune now, but they were doing this in March and

1305
01:13:14.560 --> 01:13:17.039
<v Speaker 2>April when you know the pe. We have people in

1306
01:13:17.119 --> 01:13:20.039
<v Speaker 2>this show listening to us who are from Brooklyn and

1307
01:13:20.119 --> 01:13:21.800
<v Speaker 2>they will tell you when you saw in the news

1308
01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:25.399
<v Speaker 2>the bodies were piling up every day every day, terrible

1309
01:13:25.479 --> 01:13:29.000
<v Speaker 2>carnage and whatever happened, that's our big an act, aust

1310
01:13:29.159 --> 01:13:30.439
<v Speaker 2>whatever happened to be cook.

1311
01:13:32.800 --> 01:13:35.640
<v Speaker 1>This series was originally recorded in twenty twenty and twenty

1312
01:13:35.720 --> 01:13:38.600
<v Speaker 1>twenty one as part of an ongoing lecture series. To

1313
01:13:38.640 --> 01:13:40.600
<v Speaker 1>sign up to attend the electure on Zoom, please visit

1314
01:13:40.640 --> 01:13:43.560
<v Speaker 1>toronmotion dot org. Please rate and review us in your

1315
01:13:43.560 --> 01:13:45.920
<v Speaker 1>favorite podcast app, or even better, tell a friend to

1316
01:13:45.960 --> 01:13:46.960
<v Speaker 1>give a podcast to listen