Speaker 1: Astonishing Legends Network Disclaimer. This episode includes the usual amount
Speaker 1: of adult language and graphic discussions you've come to expect
Speaker 1: around here, but in the event it becomes an unusual amount,
Speaker 1: expect another call from me.
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome back to Scaret all the time. I'm
Speaker 2: Chris Klari, but I'm deaf now, I gotta keep it down.
Speaker 2: I'm too excited when we start the show. But today
Speaker 2: there's a reason that I'm so excited, and that is
Speaker 2: because we are talking about a disease that might not
Speaker 2: actually exist, or it might be a government conspiracy, or
Speaker 2: it might be caused by chemtrails or genetically modified organisms
Speaker 2: or alien nanotechnology, or maybe maybe it might be caused
Speaker 2: by scratching yourself until fibers from your T shirt get
Speaker 2: stuck in the wound, and then you show those fibers
Speaker 2: to a doctor who tells you to see a psychiatrist.
Speaker 2: What And then you go home and get on the
Speaker 2: internet and find fourteen thousand other people who are also
Speaker 2: pretty sure that the government put little fiberworm in their skin.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: This week, that's right, We're going to piss off the
Speaker 2: comments section by talking about more Gallon's disease. The scariest
Speaker 2: part of Morgallon's disease that the people who have it,
Speaker 2: or at least believe that they have it, are in genuine,
Speaker 2: documented measurable pain. Their lives fall apart, some kill themselves.
Speaker 2: The CDC has spent a small fortune investigating it, but
Speaker 2: after twenty plus years of research and debate, the question
Speaker 2: is really no closer to being settled than it's ever been.
Speaker 2: Is Morgallon's disease real? Is it fake? Or is it both?
Speaker 3: What are we screwed? When are we all the time? Now?
Speaker 3: Which is time for time on Scan? Hey, welcome back
Speaker 3: to the show. As you know, we've been doing less
Speaker 3: housekeepings just to kind of keep the train moving here.
Speaker 3: But we got a really funny review on Spotify, of
Speaker 3: all places, and we figured we'd read it and do
Speaker 3: a couple five star reviews because it's been a minute.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you guys know what you love it If you
Speaker 2: leave a five star review, we are continuing our promise
Speaker 2: to read your five star reviews. So this one was
Speaker 2: left on kids who kill their parents by Fedi he
Speaker 2: Key left the review that reads as such, have I
Speaker 2: listened yet?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Am I reading the title of this podcast in the
Speaker 2: dark trying to get my son to sleep. Yes, did
Speaker 2: I almost scream and karate chop my son when he snored? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: And that's just reading the title. It's scared all the time?
Speaker 2: They deliver five stars. Oh hell yeah. There's a lot
Speaker 2: going on in that review too, so we like to
Speaker 2: hear thank you, Fei. I hope you never karate chop
Speaker 2: your son.
Speaker 3: It also sounds like from the beginning of the review
Speaker 3: the kid wasn't asleep, and by the end of those
Speaker 3: sentences a few sentences, the kid was snoring. So job
Speaker 3: well done, Job well done, John. All right, cool, well
Speaker 3: let's go to a let's go another one, and since
Speaker 3: we're since we're here, I'm gonna do one by Casey O.
Speaker 3: Five stars. When are we scared? Question mark all the time?
Speaker 3: Exclamation point. I think it's a reference to our theme
Speaker 3: ben here since the beginning, and I all caps love it.
Speaker 3: These guys put in so much effort, well thank you
Speaker 3: to make this show amazing. I look forward to the
Speaker 3: weekly episodes and I learned something new every time. And
Speaker 3: if you haven't joined the Patreon, what are you doing?
Speaker 3: Holy smokes? They're live stream every I added Holy Smokes.
Speaker 3: Their live stream every month feels like a big friend's
Speaker 3: hangout and and I look forward to it every month.
Speaker 3: The discord is pretty sick as well. Great community to
Speaker 3: be a part of. Keep up the great work. Hoses Boys,
Speaker 3: I think they've been Hose Boys, but I like Hoses
Speaker 3: Boys better. This Boys is pretty good. Thank you, Casey.
Speaker 2: That is we We know you, we love you, and
Speaker 2: we try to make the live streams feel as much
Speaker 2: like a cookout without a grill as possible. We just
Speaker 2: hang out, We have some drinks, we talk about weird news.
Speaker 2: We uh. We recently instigated we shouldn't be instigating anything,
Speaker 2: not instigating anything. We recently installed a fourth live camera.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you'll have to come see to believe. If
Speaker 2: you come to the live shows.
Speaker 3: And then after you do, you'll say, that's another thing
Speaker 3: you probably shouldn't have done.
Speaker 2: But yeah, we have a great time. So thank you, Casey,
Speaker 2: and that I think will do it for one more?
Speaker 3: Do do you have another one? Up? I have one more?
Speaker 3: I can do.
Speaker 2: What's your what's your one more?
Speaker 3: Well? This one just because it's open. Amelia seven eight
Speaker 3: says five stars and then this is probably a bad one.
Speaker 3: To have chosen Ariskophanes question mark Pasadena, question mark is
Speaker 3: the subject the body is. It's just fun listening to
Speaker 3: Chris's mispronunciation of various words and ads sass equips.
Speaker 2: Wait, hang on, have I mispronounced Pasadena?
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I was thinking there's gonna be
Speaker 3: more U mispronunciation in this that I would be fucked
Speaker 3: trying to pronounce. But it turns out it's not the
Speaker 3: case so far, unless I don't know if Aristophanes is correct.
Speaker 3: I'm saying I don't know. But anyway, back to the
Speaker 3: how fun it is to hear you fuck up and
Speaker 3: me be fun. They've both reignited my love of old
Speaker 3: horrorflicks and unlocked fears I didn't even know I had.
Speaker 3: Thanks for all the sleepless nights to come exclamation points,
Speaker 3: Thank you, Amelia. It's nice to know people like all
Speaker 3: the good things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Amelia. I I'll make sure to mispronounce things
Speaker 2: just for you in the future. Pasidena or I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't even know how I could have messed up Pasadena,
Speaker 2: but I mess it up.
Speaker 3: You, Amelia will say, you fucking Amelia bro I.
Speaker 2: Ameliate it all right, guys. Well, yes, leave five star
Speaker 2: reviews on Apple become a verb. They're easier to find.
Speaker 2: You can leave them on.
Speaker 3: Spotify as well. We do check the Spotify.
Speaker 2: Comments, but preferably Apple become a verb. Get used on
Speaker 2: the show, Get on the show.
Speaker 3: Speaking of using, if you use fucking YouTube, subscribe, subscribe
Speaker 3: to our YouTube. We're doing a lot more video and
Speaker 3: that's something we are not necessarily prioritizing, but working hard on.
Speaker 3: So it really helps out if people can subscribe and
Speaker 3: not just watch them. So on the list of things
Speaker 3: you can do and should be doing and we demand
Speaker 3: you do, it's the five star reviews, and then in
Speaker 3: this case also YouTube. We'd like to do more shit there.
Speaker 2: Yes, we're sort of like God in that we demand
Speaker 2: you do certain things and then you earn our eternal love.
Speaker 2: Exactly so until until we hear from you, enjoy more
Speaker 2: Gallon's Disease. So ed, Before we fully dive down the
Speaker 2: more Gallon's rabbit hole, I gotta ask you, have you
Speaker 2: ever heard of this before? Or am I talking to
Speaker 2: a blank slate?
Speaker 3: You usually are?
Speaker 2: That's true, that's true.
Speaker 3: This is the guy that drove around the globe in
Speaker 3: his boat car and was that disease scurvy?
Speaker 2: No, I think you're thinking of Magellan. And I don't
Speaker 2: know what diseases he had, but I'm sure he had
Speaker 2: a lot of them because he was a sailor. In
Speaker 2: the he drove a boat car sixteen hundreds or something.
Speaker 3: He sailed a boat. I don't think he was a
Speaker 3: boat car. Do you remember an age of empires who
Speaker 3: can put in codes and get like a Dodge viper.
Speaker 2: I never knew that now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it gets shot missiles and stuff sick. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so you can be like nice ziggurat or whatever and
Speaker 3: just shoot a bunch of missiles at it. Anyway, that's
Speaker 3: where my mind went. So in this version, this is
Speaker 3: a version of Magell that you have a cheet code
Speaker 3: where he gets a sick boat car and he's firing
Speaker 3: disease out of it via missile. Yeah. Is that what
Speaker 3: this episode's about? No? Oh shit.
Speaker 2: At least, then this episode is about a disease that
Speaker 2: I think I first encountered back on this conspiracy message
Speaker 2: board that used to exist called Abovetopsecret dot com.
Speaker 3: I think you've mentioned it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it exists anymore, but there was
Speaker 2: a period of time there from right around when I
Speaker 2: graduated high school to when like twenty ten, twenty eleven,
Speaker 2: maybe when I was out here that I was on
Speaker 2: that website a lot. It was a crazy No, I
Speaker 2: never moderated it, but it was it was all. There
Speaker 2: was always something wild being posted there, and they were
Speaker 2: my introduction to a lot of bizarre Internet conspiracy subcultures,
Speaker 2: but more Gallon's Disease stuck with me because it's a
Speaker 2: lot like gang Stocking.
Speaker 3: Oh, here come the emails.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why I said, we're gonna piss off the
Speaker 2: comments section.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I didn't know what it was now I thought
Speaker 3: it was a boat car.
Speaker 2: It's more like gang Stocking than a boat car. It
Speaker 2: lives in a really interesting gray zone. That fascinates me.
Speaker 2: Any topic like this fascinates me, where you have people
Speaker 2: who are suffering from something and they are clearly suffering
Speaker 2: for real, but what they are suffering from is probably
Speaker 2: not what they think it is, and the fact that
Speaker 2: they can't accept what it might be is creating more suffering.
Speaker 3: Like a It's not like a Munchausen biproxy thing.
Speaker 2: No, although Munchausen biproxy does sort of figure into the
Speaker 2: story of mor gallons. But we'll get to that. Okay,
Speaker 2: So more gallons For those of you who are uninitiated
Speaker 2: to this world. It is defined as quote from this
Speaker 2: is from PubMed a paper on PubMed. The disease is
Speaker 2: defined as quote a disfiguring and perplexing skin condition associated
Speaker 2: with spiral kettle infection and tickborn illness.
Speaker 3: Ticks again tics.
Speaker 2: It has some similarities salime disease rimeszy is fucking such
Speaker 2: a shit disease, all right, So people who are suffering
Speaker 2: from Morgallons disease, the symptoms are very, very weird. It
Speaker 2: is a person who believes that they have sores on
Speaker 2: their arms that grow strange biological fibers out of the sores.
Speaker 2: According to a paper examining the history of Morgallons published
Speaker 2: on PubMed, quote, the distinguishing diagnostic feature of more gallons
Speaker 2: is spontaneously appearing alternative skin lesions that contain unusual filaments
Speaker 2: lying under, embedded, in, or projecting from the skin. The
Speaker 2: characteristic filaments are microscopic, visually resembling try microscopic, microscopic. Well,
Speaker 2: people know what they have it they I don't think
Speaker 2: that it means well, I should say the quote here
Speaker 2: is that the the filaments are microscopic. I think kind
Speaker 2: of what it's saying is that they are often examined
Speaker 2: beneath a microscope. They are small, very small fibers that
Speaker 2: people pluck from these wounds. They don't they are visible
Speaker 2: to the naked eye, but you can't you can't tell
Speaker 2: like if you when you pluck one off, you can't
Speaker 2: necessarily tell what it is without using a microscope. It's
Speaker 2: not like, oh, this is from a T shirt or
Speaker 2: this is it's a very tiny thin film.
Speaker 3: Gross to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So so they have these very tiny, nearly microscopic,
Speaker 2: will say, uh, filaments visually resembling textile fibers that are white, black,
Speaker 2: or more vibrant colors such as red or blue. It's
Speaker 2: a very poorly understood condition for a lot of reasons
Speaker 2: that we're going to get into with a worldwide distribution
Speaker 2: and an estimated self reported number of cases that reached
Speaker 2: over fourteen thousand people in the year two thousand and nine.
Speaker 3: Just that year, or they're saying by two thousand and
Speaker 3: nine it was fourteen thousand people. And when I didn't
Speaker 3: sleep for three days I was working on that project.
Speaker 3: And then I kept telling you that I was like
Speaker 3: seeing like little moving hairs on on the T shirt,
Speaker 3: so like make T shirts to ship out, yes, And
Speaker 3: then I was like, the fucking the shirt's breathing was lucidating.
Speaker 3: But then I ended up washing that shirt. As someone
Speaker 3: whoever got that shirt who knows has been washed because
Speaker 3: it looks washed. I was like, Oh, I think the
Speaker 3: Washington took care of it.
Speaker 2: Took care of what the fact that it was breathing.
Speaker 3: I remember taking like the shirt outside and it had
Speaker 3: like these little red hairs that were on. It was crazy.
Speaker 3: But anyway, I'm not saying that's what these people are experiencing. No,
Speaker 3: but I didn't sleep for three days and I thought
Speaker 3: my clothes had more gallons. So you know, who knows
Speaker 3: where we're going to go with this.
Speaker 2: There's another symptom though, In addition to the very strang
Speaker 2: fiber production that seems to be a part of this disease,
Speaker 2: some patients may experience a sensation notice formication. Have you
Speaker 2: ever experienced formication?
Speaker 3: Ed know what that is?
Speaker 2: It's not what it sounds like that like when you
Speaker 2: wake up in the morning as a puddle and then
Speaker 2: later in the day. No Formication is the scientific term
Speaker 2: for stinging, biting, creeping, and crawling sensations on the skin.
Speaker 3: Ew.
Speaker 2: So you've got fibers, you've got creeping, stinging, biting, crawling
Speaker 2: sensations on the skin, and the symptoms are not limited
Speaker 2: to just those in formification or whatever, formicationication, chemokela, formication.
Speaker 2: Formication is simply like, if there was actually a centipede
Speaker 2: on your arm, would it still that you wouldn't describe
Speaker 2: that sensation as that.
Speaker 3: It's only like if you're having a sensation. That's a
Speaker 3: good question.
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know if formication is only the
Speaker 2: definition for that term, if there's not actually a physical
Speaker 2: object causing it. YEA, yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I didn't I didn't look it up to see what
Speaker 2: the difference would be between stinging, biting, creeping, and crawling
Speaker 2: sensations caused by a real bug versus a fake.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I also wonder if a doctor would ever ask that,
Speaker 3: they'd probably just be like, are you feeling stinging? They
Speaker 3: wouldn't be like any formication.
Speaker 2: No, probably probably not, probably not. It's just a I
Speaker 2: think it's a funny word, and i'd never heard it before,
Speaker 2: I didn't know what it meant, so I wanted to
Speaker 2: let the audience know. It's another great bar trivia answer, Yeah,
Speaker 2: formication under consent of the king.
Speaker 3: And if you want someone to go home with you
Speaker 3: from that bar, I don't mention. Don't mention any of
Speaker 3: the experiencing formacation. There's other symptoms too.
Speaker 2: According to a study of More Gallons that the CDC
Speaker 2: undertook in twenty twelve, seventy percent of participants reported chronic
Speaker 2: fatigue lasting six months or more. Seventy one percent had
Speaker 2: muscular skeletal complaints okay, fifty nine percent showed cognitive impairment
Speaker 2: on neuropsychological testing, like like I have this. Sufferers would
Speaker 2: call that brain fog. I have this, Yes, well you don't.
Speaker 3: I have more gallons.
Speaker 2: You don't have more gellans. Yeah, we hope you don't.
Speaker 2: Although yes, brain fog includes memory loss, confusion, and difficulty
Speaker 2: holding a thought, which I feel like I have it.
Speaker 2: We run into multiple times.
Speaker 3: Per I have all the things. I'm a sting away
Speaker 3: from being more galloned out.
Speaker 2: Some people report even stranger symptoms, like black sweat and
Speaker 2: seed like objects emerging from the pores in their skin.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm two things away from more gallons.
Speaker 2: Now, quality of life scores were significantly below national norms.
Speaker 2: Now your back, up your back.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's true. I'm below natural norms.
Speaker 2: And their quality of life scores are often worse than
Speaker 2: patients with something a little bit more traditional, like psoriasis
Speaker 2: or exima, which are also skin in these issues. I
Speaker 2: think it's really interesting, And you know, I'm not trying
Speaker 2: to draw connections here other than to say I think
Speaker 2: it's interesting that some of these symptoms, with the exception
Speaker 2: of like black sweat and fibers, are found in other
Speaker 2: diseases that are really hard to study. Fatigue, joint pain,
Speaker 2: car complications, cab type of thing, cognitive difficulties, and neuropathy
Speaker 2: are all symptoms that are commonly reported by lime disease
Speaker 2: patients and fibromiologia patients I got on and long COVID patients.
Speaker 2: So is there a connection between all of these things
Speaker 2: other than the fact that they, as we'll get into,
Speaker 2: tend to be dismissed because they disproportionately affect women, and
Speaker 2: and are you know, built around symptoms that are hard
Speaker 2: to physically diagnose. I don't know, but I do find
Speaker 2: it interesting that there's a there's a common thread, excuse
Speaker 2: the pun, between all of those diseases.
Speaker 3: I think it'd be really interesting if COVID. One of
Speaker 3: the symptoms of COVID was black sweat or like ejecting
Speaker 3: seeds yep, because that would be like everyone knows it's November,
Speaker 3: COVID seasons on the rise, like say, away from anyone
Speaker 3: bleeding black sweat or Johnny apple seed type they have
Speaker 3: pods emerging from their necks. Yeah, wait, that would be
Speaker 3: really interesting, Like I don't even know what the world
Speaker 3: would be. No, I don't even know what the world
Speaker 3: would be because you know, you know, like remember when COVID. Look,
Speaker 3: we had a vaccine, but it was whatever, but you
Speaker 3: saw to go to weddings and people were like, oh
Speaker 3: I tested fine, and you never know, you know, if
Speaker 3: people were lying, Yeah, you fully know people were lying
Speaker 3: to your face, like they definitely were coughing like a
Speaker 3: day earlier. They just didn't want to. But the idea
Speaker 3: of someone lying to you like the way my niece lies,
Speaker 3: which it was a little kid, where they're just fully
Speaker 3: like drenched in black sweat and they're like, I don't
Speaker 3: even have it, bro like, I'm common. It's fine.
Speaker 2: It ain't nothing, man, This isn't COVID. It's a false
Speaker 2: sweat like this since I was a kid.
Speaker 3: This is normal.
Speaker 2: What is very unique about mor Gallon's in comparison to
Speaker 2: some of these other diseases that are difficult to diagnose
Speaker 2: because of their psychosomatic symptoms, is that it does seem
Speaker 2: to have these very very weird, painful physical symptoms.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I pulled a few from a list compiled in that
Speaker 2: pub med study, and boy, oh boy, one sixty five
Speaker 2: year old female reported sensations of fibers in her eyelids, quote,
Speaker 2: wormy things coming from her skin, and she self diagnosed
Speaker 2: herself with more gallons.
Speaker 3: As a person who without the use of drugs. When
Speaker 3: I stayed up for three days to do that thing,
Speaker 3: that project correct, I guess my first question would be, like,
Speaker 3: have you gone to sleep? Like, when's the last time
Speaker 3: you went to sleep? Because I saw shit, like I
Speaker 3: was experiencing symptoms that were bananas and that was only
Speaker 3: three days of being a whig. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, we've talked about in in the like Sleep in
Speaker 2: the Sleep episode about the things that can happen to
Speaker 2: a person when they haven't slept at all. A lot
Speaker 2: of people who suffer from mor gallons also have been
Speaker 2: found to suffer from either some sort of like benzo
Speaker 2: addiction or stimulant addiction or insane degrees of depression.
Speaker 3: It's a vaccine, Yeah, I had gotten a vaccine, had
Speaker 3: gotten it. Yeah, I mean I see enough favorwork is
Speaker 3: gonna be well.
Speaker 2: I one of the things. And I kind of left
Speaker 2: this out because it felt like I was tacking on
Speaker 2: a politically tricky subjects.
Speaker 3: No problem talking about it to the end. They put
Speaker 3: in my body to the end of the episode.
Speaker 2: But during COVID more gallons had another It had like
Speaker 2: a second life kind of on TikTok because people were
Speaker 2: posting all these videos with absolutely no credation of where
Speaker 2: they came from or anything, but videos being like, look,
Speaker 2: you can see more gallons fibers on the face masks
Speaker 2: that we all have to wear, and it became took
Speaker 2: on another life of its own. During COVIDU also tied
Speaker 2: to the vaccines. So I pulled from this pub med study.
Speaker 2: I pulled a list of symptoms and people who claim
Speaker 2: to have suffered them, so that you can kind of
Speaker 2: get a sense for how varied and extreme some of
Speaker 2: the symptoms of more gallons can be. A sixty five
Speaker 2: year old female who self diagnosed herself with more gallons,
Speaker 2: reported sensations of fibers in her eyelids and quote wormy
Speaker 2: things coming out of her skin. Okay, thirty seven year
Speaker 2: old female who says she had a black substance coming
Speaker 2: out of her hands called sweat.
Speaker 3: We all do it.
Speaker 2: What's the big deal? I told you, I'm fine.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: A forty four year old female who reported crawling sensations,
Speaker 2: strings and parasites coming out of her eyelids, eyelashes, and ears.
Speaker 3: A lot of ears, I mean a lot of eye
Speaker 3: stuff so far.
Speaker 2: A sixty five year old female who reported crawling sensations
Speaker 2: and believed a snake had migrated in her body.
Speaker 3: We've heard that before in the UH one of the
Speaker 3: drug episodes. There was a lot of snake.
Speaker 2: Stuff and spider stuff in the LSD.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it was like people went to
Speaker 3: the er being like, there was a fucking snake in me.
Speaker 2: And then a forty six year old male who self
Speaker 2: diagnosed with more gallons and said that he was experiencing
Speaker 2: crawling sensations, cocoons emerging from his body, and also believed
Speaker 2: that he was being pursued by the Japanese mafia, which
Speaker 2: is not not a traditional symptom, and it was on
Speaker 2: this list.
Speaker 3: I watch a lot of football, which is a lot
Speaker 3: of pharmaceutical commercials. Yeah. Never once it was like, if
Speaker 3: the Japanese Mafia chance to see you for longer than
Speaker 3: six hours, please seek Yeah, like, not once.
Speaker 2: The way that these symptoms manifest, I mean, these symptoms
Speaker 2: all sound like something from a body horror movie or
Speaker 2: or some other Nicholas Winding ref In movie if it
Speaker 2: involves the Japanese mafia. But the way that these symptoms
Speaker 2: manifest is also much more extreme than you know, feeling
Speaker 2: this brain fog and then looking at your arm and
Speaker 2: being like, oh huh is that a weird little string?
Speaker 3: What is that? Did the Yakaza do this?
Speaker 2: They stitch me up? Are my organs still here?
Speaker 3: I mean, there are the first things you had said
Speaker 3: so far. It's it is funny, how much not funny
Speaker 3: but interesting? How much overlap there was with some of
Speaker 3: our Bad Trips episodes.
Speaker 2: Yes, there's very much. It does seem that there is
Speaker 2: a mental component to a lot of this, but we'll
Speaker 2: get to that in a minute, because the way that
Speaker 2: this often starts is just with an itch. Imagine waking
Speaker 2: up one morning with the sensation of formication of something
Speaker 2: crawling under your skin, like little bugs burrowing through your
Speaker 2: muscle tissue. That itching gets so in tense that you
Speaker 2: can't stop scratching it, and you scratch so much that
Speaker 2: you break the skin.
Speaker 3: I have never once, and even after we've done our
Speaker 3: episodes on like fucking skin stuff flesh eating bash, I'm
Speaker 3: still guilty of. I don't think I've had a mosquito
Speaker 3: bite once in my life that did not become a scab,
Speaker 3: Like yeah, I feel like I might even inching a
Speaker 3: lot and it already is like, well, that's bleeding.
Speaker 2: The itching that these people report is on levels way
Speaker 2: above mosquito bites.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I imagine it would be.
Speaker 2: It is a consistent, aggressive body or yeah kind of itching,
Speaker 2: and they scratch so much that they break the skin.
Speaker 2: And when they break the skin, that's when they often
Speaker 2: see the fibers. They don't pop out of their skin
Speaker 2: like snakes in a can or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Most people don't even realize that they're there until, for
Speaker 2: whatever reason, they end up looking more closely at the
Speaker 2: wounds that they've given themselves from scratching.
Speaker 3: Do you ever look at yourself in a mirror a
Speaker 3: long time? Yeah, it's no good. It gets weird, It
Speaker 3: gets weird. And so I think if you focus on something,
Speaker 3: your eyeballs do tend to like fill in gaps that
Speaker 3: weren't there necessarily.
Speaker 2: Sometimes, but some of these people report that they even
Speaker 2: have that they've not only found these fibers on the wounds,
Speaker 2: but when they have plucked them out of their body,
Speaker 2: a new one grows back in its.
Speaker 3: Place, hydra to grow back in its place.
Speaker 2: So at that point, if you ed Vacola, are sitting
Speaker 2: at home with a weeping sore on your arm that
Speaker 2: you've scratched through the skin, crying like oozing weep, you know,
Speaker 2: like I know, it's all blistery and raw, and you've
Speaker 2: plucked these fibers out of your skin, You're gonna go, well,
Speaker 2: what the fuck is this? This isn't this isn't good.
Speaker 2: I'm not supposed to have.
Speaker 3: I'm probably saying that a couple of times leading up
Speaker 3: to this moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the mistake you might make is to do
Speaker 2: to a lab no, no, no, that would be a
Speaker 2: that would be a very smart and good thing to do.
Speaker 2: But a lot of people do what a lot of
Speaker 2: us do when there's a mysterious oh your Google, fucking
Speaker 2: you go to WebMD, you go and you google fibers
Speaker 2: growing out of skin, or fibers in my wounds, or
Speaker 2: strange fiber on body, and you will find out very
Speaker 2: quickly that you were not alone.
Speaker 3: Fuck.
Speaker 2: Man, there are thousands and thousands and thousands of people
Speaker 2: all over the world experiencing this exact same thing.
Speaker 3: And if we can get them together, we'll save a
Speaker 3: lot of money on fabric. We can just make bolts
Speaker 3: out of these people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they say, you know, the economy is having a
Speaker 2: rough time. I think if we could just pay the
Speaker 2: Morgallon's community.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like donating plasma.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they donate those threads. We bring the costs of
Speaker 2: fabrics down. Yeah, clothes become cheaper, and you might have
Speaker 2: just save a sense of purpose. You might have just
Speaker 2: saved the world.
Speaker 3: Put a giant sweater around the world. Man.
Speaker 2: So if you make the mistake of getting online, you
Speaker 2: will find that there are thousands and thousands and thousands
Speaker 2: of people experiencing this exact same thing. They have a
Speaker 2: name for it, Morgallons. They have a website, they have
Speaker 2: a community, and just like victims of game stalking, these
Speaker 2: people are furious.
Speaker 3: That no one will take them seriously. They are going
Speaker 3: to doctors. Well, okay, we'll let you continue.
Speaker 2: Before we continue, I do just want to say that
Speaker 2: if you are in need of community, we've got one
Speaker 2: ready and waiting for you over at our Patriot. For
Speaker 2: just five bucks a month, you can get ad free
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Speaker 2: Now to the history of more Gallons.
Speaker 3: Cut you up. That was great. I wasn't expecting that,
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Speaker 2: While I always assume that more Gallons emerged fully formed
Speaker 2: from the swamps of the Internet. It turns out that
Speaker 2: the history of the disease is even weirder than that.
Speaker 2: The popular history of Morgallons can be traced back literally
Speaker 2: to one patient zero named Drew Lattau.
Speaker 3: I was really expecting their name to be more.
Speaker 2: Guellen No no, no, who was only two years old
Speaker 2: in the summer of two thousand and one. According to
Speaker 2: an article written in two thousand and six for the
Speaker 2: Pittsburgh Post Gazette, which is where the Latau family lived
Speaker 2: as Pittsburgh called LaTaO turns five. No no, no, no.
Speaker 3: He was two in two thousand and one, so he's
Speaker 3: seven or something now.
Speaker 2: This was a look back at the history of Morgallons
Speaker 2: by the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, and quote Drew says mommy
Speaker 2: and daddy and milk, and often when he points to
Speaker 2: an irritated patch of skin under his lips bugs his mother.
Speaker 3: That's horrible. It's like if your kid said, goes bro.
Speaker 2: His mother, Mary Latau, a graduate of UMass Boston with
Speaker 2: a degree in biology, found this really weird. She'd already
Speaker 2: taken Drew to several Pittsburgh dermatologists and pediatricians, but nothing
Speaker 2: they prescribed for ecima or atypical scabies ever stopped his itching.
Speaker 2: One night, as she was applying his scabies cream, which
Speaker 2: is the thing I hope to never apply to a child.
Speaker 2: That sounds terrible that I.
Speaker 3: Hope someone would have applied to that poor old person
Speaker 3: who eaten alive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who's eaten alive by the scabies. I don't think
Speaker 2: by the end they had really anybody help in the mouth. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: go listen to our Eating a Live episode if you're
Speaker 2: more sad stories. For more sad stories. But as Mary
Speaker 2: was applying the scabies cream to her son, quote, something
Speaker 2: fiberlike emerges from his skin. As a biologist, she was mesmerized,
Speaker 2: but as a mother, she's horrified. She collected a sample
Speaker 2: of the strands from Drew's skin and was surprised that
Speaker 2: they glide right off like filaments from a dandelion. She
Speaker 2: places them on slides and examines them underneath an eight
Speaker 2: dollar radio shack microscope.
Speaker 3: Wait, did she go buy it or did she just
Speaker 3: have that?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: She's how seriously do you take your job? That's that's
Speaker 3: what you've committed in terms of investment eight dollars. Well,
Speaker 3: I think this was maybe just the home microscope. I
Speaker 3: imagine that at some point she probably did take these
Speaker 3: two a more powerful microscope at work, Absolutely sure. I
Speaker 3: just interesting that she had it at all.
Speaker 2: Doesn't seem Yeah, it seems like if you had access
Speaker 2: to a nicer microscope and your son was suffering from
Speaker 2: mystery disease, you would just elect to go straight to
Speaker 2: the nice microscope. You wouldn't start with the at home
Speaker 2: magnifying glass. But in any case, according to the post
Speaker 2: case at Mary calls what she's discovered fibers, which becomes
Speaker 2: the term for what these are, and at first she
Speaker 2: hopes to find that they're just sweater strands or some
Speaker 2: simple fungus that she's unfamiliar with. But after months of studying,
Speaker 2: she finds something else.
Speaker 3: No months of studying on that fucking eight dollar number.
Speaker 2: I don't know if she like, are you gonna go
Speaker 2: to work with the as you're a biologist or whatever
Speaker 2: she I need to know if she got time on
Speaker 2: a better microscope. After months of studying, she finds something else,
Speaker 2: something that sometimes appears red or black or blue and
Speaker 2: fluoresces beneath the proper light. So I think this months
Speaker 2: of studying did come after she took it to other
Speaker 2: labs in microscopes. I don't think this was all at home.
Speaker 3: Do you think she gets new ones every day from
Speaker 3: the kid where it's like, could you please squirret out
Speaker 3: a few more? Can you please pop a few more
Speaker 3: seeds for me?
Speaker 2: She was taking a lot of fiber samples off her son.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Her first description of these fibers was that under magnification
Speaker 2: they appear ribbon like and sen acidic, which means they
Speaker 2: didn't have cell walls. So she was examining this beneath
Speaker 2: a nicer microscope than her eight dollar radio shack.
Speaker 3: Or we all think we need a nicer microscope and
Speaker 3: eight dollars does the trick. That's true.
Speaker 2: What we might be learning from a scientist here is, yeah,
Speaker 2: the nice microscopes are way over overpriced.
Speaker 3: Also rip gup less radio shack.
Speaker 2: According to the article, miss Latow tried to prove herself
Speaker 2: wrong dozens of times logic tells her people don't sprout fibers.
Speaker 3: Mister spider Man in the first same Raimi one, where's crazy? Well,
Speaker 3: that's that's totally different.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm injection.
Speaker 3: Remember he looks at his hand about to wear little
Speaker 3: barbs like spider barbs his fingertips, and it's really gross
Speaker 3: and we don't need to know how Spider Man does. It.
Speaker 2: Turns out, no matter how many times she swabs her
Speaker 2: son's sores clean and then covers them with a sterile,
Speaker 2: non fibrous wrap, the fibers always return. So she brings
Speaker 2: Drugh to a doctor, and then another doctor, and then
Speaker 2: another and another. Texas Monthly says she went to at
Speaker 2: least twelve doctors, including doctors at Johns Hopkins, and none
Speaker 2: of them could find anything wrong with.
Speaker 3: This kid that they couldn't get fibers.
Speaker 2: They couldn't get fibers. They suggested that the fibers Mary
Speaker 2: was bringing in little plastic bags and showing them were
Speaker 2: threads from Drew's clothes that were just affixing themselves to
Speaker 2: the sore. In fact, the Johns Hopkins specialist, a guy
Speaker 2: named doctor Fred Heldrick, who was specifically known for solving
Speaker 2: medical mysteries, wrote a letter known for He's like a
Speaker 2: doctor house. He was like a guy who you would
Speaker 2: bring weird cases out when all else fails, this guy
Speaker 2: will do the third act.
Speaker 3: Figure it out.
Speaker 2: Doctor Heldrick not as good of a name as doctor House,
Speaker 2: but he wrote a letter to Latoo's referring physician that
Speaker 2: basically said, your patient's mom needs to see a psychiatrist,
Speaker 2: and I hope she stops using her son to explore
Speaker 2: whatever is wrong with her.
Speaker 3: Oh wow.
Speaker 2: Another specialist that Johns Hopkins, flat out refused to see
Speaker 2: her and suggested she might have Munchausen by proxy, which
Speaker 2: is the psychological condition where a parent fabricates or induces
Speaker 2: an illness in their child for attention. It's a really
Speaker 2: sad mental illness that.
Speaker 3: She means it will probably be the next episode. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But Mary said, no, no, no, that's not what's going
Speaker 2: on here. There's something wrong with my son and we
Speaker 2: need to figure out what it is. So she started
Speaker 2: scouring the internet for any evidence that other people were
Speaker 2: experiencing the same thing. But remember it was like two
Speaker 2: thousand and three. This was two thousand and one to two.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah, I had to find someone's Fortune
Speaker 3: City website.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing. This was the first case of Morgallons.
Speaker 2: She found strange stories that sounded similar, often on Scabie's
Speaker 2: message boards, but nothing that defined what Drew was experiencing.
Speaker 2: And then she found a letter from a man named
Speaker 2: doctor Thomas Brown, who had written a description of exactly
Speaker 2: what her son stoppedancing.
Speaker 3: And this is written before, technically posted before she went
Speaker 3: to see all his doctors.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was posted way, way way before she went
Speaker 2: to go.
Speaker 3: I mean, I am printing that out and bringing it
Speaker 3: to all the doctors.
Speaker 2: He wrote this letter three hundred and thirty years before
Speaker 2: Mary found it all the way back in sixteen seventy.
Speaker 3: Who typed it and put it on the internet.
Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't.
Speaker 3: It wasn't.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was typed or where she
Speaker 2: found it?
Speaker 3: Like it, how was this even doing on the internet
Speaker 3: in two thousand and one. I'm saying, like one of
Speaker 3: the Dead Sea scrolls you found this in like.
Speaker 2: Well, the Dead Sea Scrolls probably were typed up and
Speaker 2: put on the Internet somewhere too.
Speaker 3: So No, for me, though, this is very vindicating for
Speaker 3: her and me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great turn of events for Mary. She
Speaker 2: was thrilled because she felt for the first time that
Speaker 2: she may not have been the first person to discover
Speaker 2: this disease. It's just that it was so unbelievable that
Speaker 2: its existence had slipped straight through the cracks of medical science.
Speaker 2: An article published on Jezebel takes us back in time. Okay,
Speaker 2: it tells us quote the children of long Doc, France
Speaker 2: were born into suffering. They itched uncontrollably and had epileptic fits.
Speaker 2: They spent their childhood screaming until their voices went hoarse.
Speaker 2: Unable to sleep, they would, according to a seventeenth century observer,
Speaker 2: pass rapidly into wasting and extreme emaciation. Their mothers tried
Speaker 2: to ease their pain by rubbing their backs and coating
Speaker 2: their skin with honey and new milk, and eventually the
Speaker 2: mothers noticed quote coarse hairs emerging from their children's skin.
Speaker 2: They would grab quote little pincers as women use to
Speaker 2: pull the hair from off their eyebrows, and pull the
Speaker 2: offending coarse hairs from their children's bodies one by one.
Speaker 2: The extraction was the closest they had to a cure.
Speaker 2: The mothers would ritualistically repeat the process over and over
Speaker 2: and over again until the children stopped crying and convulsing,
Speaker 2: and until the hairs stopped sprouting from their racked little bodies.
Speaker 3: Okay, So with the removal of hair also was an
Speaker 3: easing of the.
Speaker 2: Of the pain of the pain. As early as the
Speaker 2: fourteenth century, physicians and men of science had visited this
Speaker 2: region of France to witness these painfully diseased children and
Speaker 2: left detailing the horrifying screams of infants, the rituals of
Speaker 2: their mothers, and the detrimental effects that the inexplicable coarse
Speaker 2: hairs had on the well being of the entire community's children.
Speaker 2: And eventually it's this mystery that drew the attention of
Speaker 2: British physician Sir Thomas Brown, who visited the region in
Speaker 2: sixteen thirty. It was a little unclear to me if
Speaker 2: he waited forty years to write a letter about this,
Speaker 2: because he didn't write the letter until sixteen seventy, or
Speaker 2: if perhaps you know, that's the only letter that survived
Speaker 2: and he wrote about it earlier, but we lost that information. Sure,
Speaker 2: But it was this passage that caught Mary's attention. Quote
Speaker 2: hairs which have most amused me have not been in
Speaker 2: the face or head, but on the back, amused, and
Speaker 2: not in men, but children, as I long observed in
Speaker 2: the endemial distemper of the little children in Langdoc called
Speaker 2: the Morgallons, wherein they critically break out with harsh hairs
Speaker 2: on their backs which take off the unquiet symptoms of
Speaker 2: the disease and delivers them from coughs and convulsions.
Speaker 3: I'm so wait, hold on. So Morgallons was like an area,
Speaker 3: this is where this people lived.
Speaker 2: It's Jezebel says that his description of the disease as
Speaker 2: more gallons was a bastardization of what were more renowned
Speaker 2: physicians called masculess or maskellons. So I think miskellons or
Speaker 2: masculine list was the term for what they decided these
Speaker 2: kids were suffering from. Okay, but he called it mor gallons.
Speaker 3: And it thought it was hilarious.
Speaker 2: Hious as you're amused here is being used in the
Speaker 2: modern sense.
Speaker 3: Of The part that really had me slap in my
Speaker 3: name was when they would cry the back hair.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you what these kids made me l
Speaker 2: O L l O L. At the end of the day, though,
Speaker 2: his errors didn't matter to Mary because she matched the
Speaker 2: symptoms described in this letter to the disease devouring her
Speaker 2: kid's body.
Speaker 3: And it's older than her complaint yeah, so fucking mcgallons
Speaker 3: is real, and for the remainder of this podcast, you
Speaker 3: have to dissuade me on that.
Speaker 2: Mystery solved well, because I do just want to pause
Speaker 2: to point out that despite Mary's best intentions to help
Speaker 2: her son and others that she'd run into online, it
Speaker 2: is this sort of loose attention to detail that doesn't
Speaker 2: really help her case, because what her son is experiencing
Speaker 2: sounds sort of similar to morgallon's. But in no point
Speaker 2: does it seem that he grew large, coarse, black hairs
Speaker 2: that you could pluck out with tweezers, Nor.
Speaker 3: Did it say that when she removed the hair that
Speaker 3: itching stopped, that it subsided.
Speaker 2: And Furthermore, while I'm not sure Mary knew this at
Speaker 2: the time, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt,
Speaker 2: but it turns out that the more Gellons tormenting the
Speaker 2: seventeenth century children of Longdoc had a much more prosaic explanation.
Speaker 2: Not long after Brown penned this letter that she found
Speaker 2: hundreds of years later, science determined that those coarse hairs
Speaker 2: quote unquote that were emerging from the children of Longdoc
Speaker 2: were likely just the bristled legs of the Sarco pets
Speaker 2: skybey what socco? I don't care what the word zarcapetti,
Speaker 2: scabe or itch mites. So they were scabies, Yes, they
Speaker 2: were scabies by.
Speaker 3: The time, yes, not fucking Jesus man, by the time
Speaker 3: to stop having bugs in us.
Speaker 2: By the time the Italian stud Giovanni Cosimo Bonomo identified
Speaker 2: the existence of the scabies mite in sixteen eighty seven,
Speaker 2: this word mor gellon's or McKellen's or whatever had already
Speaker 2: entered the lexicon. So my point is the reason that
Speaker 2: Mary felt this disease had like slipped through the cracks
Speaker 2: of history. Yeah, was not because it was a medical
Speaker 2: mystery that no one could understand.
Speaker 3: Is that no one had figured out what scabies.
Speaker 2: Yet, and once they did, they just renamed it scabies.
Speaker 3: I'm never gonna google it. I'm never gonna look for
Speaker 3: a fucking photograph. It will not be on the screen
Speaker 3: of the video version. But like I guess, in my mind,
Speaker 3: I thought scabies were more microscopic than like, ill a
Speaker 3: leg watch out, like like it's big enough for the
Speaker 3: naked eye to like big old leg because a hair
Speaker 3: is not super small, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I look I don't google it. I don't know
Speaker 2: anything about.
Speaker 3: And nor should we scabies audience.
Speaker 2: Well, probably I know they ate that one woman alive
Speaker 2: that one time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's this was why in my thought
Speaker 3: it wasn't like, hey, this lady's might be a werewolf
Speaker 3: with how harry she's That's what I'm saying. I thought
Speaker 3: it was maybe more microscopic.
Speaker 2: It does seem like I'm doing some real time producing here,
Speaker 2: and it does seem that scabies are essentially invisible to
Speaker 2: the naked eye. But they look like tiny black They
Speaker 2: may look like tiny black dots on the skin.
Speaker 3: Dots. Dots are not hair.
Speaker 2: Dots are not hair. So Morgellons is back on the table, baby,
Speaker 2: because now I'm not convinced that it's just scabies.
Speaker 3: So we're gonna say that the people had like centipedes
Speaker 3: in them.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, centipedes are nowhere, nowhere near the
Speaker 2: story of Morgellans.
Speaker 3: No, I know, but I'm saying that. I'm saying scabies
Speaker 3: is not a circle that goes into a circle hole
Speaker 3: or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, I don't even know.
Speaker 3: I was trying to say there, but I'm saying it's
Speaker 3: not one. For one. I'm saying Scaby's has not for
Speaker 3: me closed the door to mcgellan's, magellang morgellons.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, in any case, you'll remember that Mary was
Speaker 2: convinced that Drew did not have scabies, so she was
Speaker 2: not going to be satisfied with this.
Speaker 3: She was aware of solution and yeah, cause scabies don't
Speaker 3: come out neon, green and shit.
Speaker 2: And she launched a website called the more Gallons Research
Speaker 2: Foundation to act as a hub for people suffering with
Speaker 2: the disease and to gather and trade information.
Speaker 3: Where was that It's not scabies dot org.
Speaker 2: That would have been a much better name.
Speaker 3: It's hard because there's a camp through apostrophe.
Speaker 2: But on March twenty ninth, two thousand and four, she
Speaker 2: formally established the more Gallon's Research Foundation as a nonprofit
Speaker 2: group headquartered in her home. In non scabies groups quote, there,
Speaker 2: self identified more Gallon sufferers shared their symptoms and exchanged
Speaker 2: homemade remedies to alleviate their pain. They also obsessively documented
Speaker 2: their symptoms.
Speaker 3: Now I don't want to. I just feel you know,
Speaker 3: everyone's got a different body whatever. But if none of
Speaker 3: their remedies was like have you tried just pulling the
Speaker 3: hairs out and the pain goes away, then it does
Speaker 3: slip a little bit further from the old story, yes,
Speaker 3: because it seems like the old story which they were
Speaker 3: like you know, Janine and Ghostbusters hitting the button being
Speaker 3: like we got one, like her being like, finally, more
Speaker 3: gallons is real? Should all? So you can't like window
Speaker 3: shop with that, Like what else about that story? Like, yep,
Speaker 3: there are the hairs. Great, if you pull them out,
Speaker 3: the pain subsides, right, then it's like fuck, then this
Speaker 3: is definitely more gallons. But if they were like the
Speaker 3: only thing that makes it go away is like honey
Speaker 3: and almond paste or whatever, then.
Speaker 2: Well nothing makes it go away.
Speaker 3: From most of these people.
Speaker 2: There is sort of a cycle that some researchers have
Speaker 2: described about the particular cruelty of more gallons, which is,
Speaker 2: you scratch, you bleed or open a wound, you discover
Speaker 2: a fiber. You then scratch more to try to find
Speaker 2: so you discover a fiber, which proves to you that
Speaker 2: it's more gallons, and then you'll scratch more to find
Speaker 2: more fibers to continue to prove that you're actually suffering
Speaker 2: from something, and so a lot of these people flows.
Speaker 3: Because they just for more. It keeps itching, so they
Speaker 3: keep going, there's gotta be more. Oh that's okay, interesting
Speaker 3: you're saying, because they hadn't gotten to the root cause
Speaker 3: of the itch. I thought it was an equally terrible
Speaker 3: exists and switches. I need to collect more fibers to
Speaker 3: prove that I have a disease. I mean, I think
Speaker 3: it's a little bit of both.
Speaker 2: It's a little bit of both, and those things compound.
Speaker 2: And then especially when you go to a doctor with
Speaker 2: your evidence and they say this is just from your
Speaker 2: T shirt, You're like, no, doc, look, I'm fucking in
Speaker 2: pain here and they're coming out of my skin.
Speaker 3: But of course, yeah, this isn't self mutilation. It's clearly
Speaker 3: like I'm itching.
Speaker 2: But when the doctors look, they very rarely find any
Speaker 2: of these fibers.
Speaker 3: That's because the radio shackmount of business.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 3: If they don't have.
Speaker 2: The equipment and radiohack we need.
Speaker 3: You need it back, man. You think you're gonna get
Speaker 3: I think you're gonna find these results on a circuit
Speaker 3: city microscope.
Speaker 2: So people suffering from Morgellons found the Morgallon's Research Foundation
Speaker 2: and shared their stories, their remedies, and they also shared
Speaker 2: their obsessively documented symptoms. The forum, which is now no
Speaker 2: pieces of it still are kind of on like the
Speaker 2: Wayback Machine and stuff, but a lot of it doesn't
Speaker 2: exist anymore. But the forum at the time contained pages
Speaker 2: upon pages of photographs of lesions across scabbed and bloodied faces,
Speaker 2: arms and backs, Photographs of sufferers pulling fibers from their skin,
Speaker 2: photographs of bundles of saved fibers stored for researchers and
Speaker 2: doctors to study. And Mary began to collect the stories
Speaker 2: of all of these people suffering from something and the
Speaker 2: itching in the burning was really the worst part for
Speaker 2: most of them, and some of them.
Speaker 3: Went the hardest thing to catch on camera.
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean, because you can't show exactly itch, but
Speaker 2: some of these people were driven to truly desperate lengths
Speaker 2: to stop the sensation the.
Speaker 3: Way and I've been itchy, oh yeah, like I've been like,
Speaker 3: like I've had type thing from like sports and like
Speaker 3: like the toe fungus and whatever the fuck it, like
Speaker 3: like athletes foot athletes foot type of thing which has
Speaker 3: like a burning sensation as well. And I'm not saying
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, you can see all these scars on
Speaker 3: my balls from when I like I itched so much.
Speaker 3: But I'm saying, like, did you check your balls for fibers?
Speaker 2: I mean you put it. I would have found some, but.
Speaker 3: Around twelve or whatever when they're when the when they first started,
Speaker 3: I guess. But I'm saying it is one of the
Speaker 3: least pleasant annoyances we have, like an itch that you
Speaker 3: just need to scratch, whether it's a mosquito bite or
Speaker 3: what I said earlier, which I might cut is uh,
Speaker 3: it sucks. So to have it to the point where,
Speaker 3: like I'm involuntarily breaking skin is a nightmare.
Speaker 2: It got so bad for these people that documented interventions
Speaker 2: include a person who bathed in bleach, no one who
Speaker 2: applied pesticides directly to their skin. Someone doused their lesions
Speaker 2: with acid. They scrubbed with nail brushes and detergents until
Speaker 2: their skin was wraw. Some people took veterinary grade anti
Speaker 2: parasitic drugs. It doses meant for livestock.
Speaker 3: It feels like some machinists shit.
Speaker 2: One woman set off bug bombs in her condo eight
Speaker 2: different times.
Speaker 3: While she was in it.
Speaker 2: There's no way you should be breathing that in at all,
Speaker 2: And one forty five year old man overdosed on benadryl
Speaker 2: he was so desperate to stop the burning, telling doctor.
Speaker 3: He made a new friend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that man to go visit a hat man.
Speaker 2: And hat man said, my son, not.
Speaker 3: That I cured on this realm only he told.
Speaker 2: The man who overdosed on benajol later told doctors that
Speaker 2: he'd rather be dead than feel like this.
Speaker 3: I mean, I get it.
Speaker 2: And one writer atol Gowanda described a Massachusetts woman who
Speaker 2: had a chronic itch in her scalp who eventually scratched
Speaker 2: through her skull and into her own brain, only to
Speaker 2: discover the damage when she awoke to liquid cerebro spinal
Speaker 2: fluid running down her face.
Speaker 3: That's pictures are didn't happen like that is? I mean,
Speaker 3: you're touching your own brain. Also, what were those rocks
Speaker 3: when we were kids, They had like a little indent,
Speaker 3: like a wishing stone type of thing.
Speaker 2: Huh And he rub your thumb in it?
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, if you're rubbing your fucking skull to the
Speaker 3: point where you've made like a wishing stone.
Speaker 2: And in your head, yeah, like I'm rubbing too hard, lady.
Speaker 3: I just don't even know how much it. For all
Speaker 3: I know, brains are actually maybe it's very easy to do,
Speaker 3: but like, but in my mind, it's like you're trying
Speaker 3: to erode a mountain.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't think this was overnight. I
Speaker 2: think this was probably an ongoing She's scratching for weeks,
Speaker 2: if not months. You know, the scalp is raw, and
Speaker 2: she's just continuing to scratch and scratch and scratch and scratch.
Speaker 3: I just can't even what do we why do we
Speaker 3: even have skulls?
Speaker 2: If that's if that's a way in, Yeah, you would
Speaker 2: hope that they'd be a little bit tougher than an
Speaker 2: old lady's fingernails, but apparently, given enough time, those fingernails
Speaker 2: can do some damage.
Speaker 3: The craziest thing about this is if it's not even
Speaker 3: if it is a disease, we're just little little cars
Speaker 3: for our brains, right, We're just little brain suits. Yep.
Speaker 3: And all the bugs that ride around on us, all
Speaker 3: the parasites. Yeah, the idea that one brain asks another brain,
Speaker 3: how did your brain suit hurt you? And it's like,
Speaker 3: oh it, I made it. Think it had an itch
Speaker 3: so bad that it hurt me. Yeah, Yeah, Like the
Speaker 3: brain potentially caused the injury and to the and facilitated
Speaker 3: being injured is so insane to me.
Speaker 2: You would think we evolved to have a thick ridge
Speaker 2: of bone around our brain called a skull to protect
Speaker 2: our brains. You would think that brains also would have
Speaker 2: evolved the ability to not damage themselves, like like where's
Speaker 2: the like uh like Asimov Rules of Robots for ourselves
Speaker 2: where it's like not through inaction.
Speaker 3: Or we have none.
Speaker 2: Man, we live in the wild. We live in the
Speaker 2: wild world of.
Speaker 3: It's just I don't know if it was nature Pete
Speaker 3: Holmes bit from a million years ago or whatever where
Speaker 3: he's like I'm paraphrasing to like make us happy all
Speaker 3: the time, and they just don't. Yeah, it's like we
Speaker 3: have saratotin, we have all this, Yeah, and it's like
Speaker 3: it almost never chooses that. Well.
Speaker 2: Mary was still deep in her own funk trying to
Speaker 2: figure out what exactly was going on here when she
Speaker 2: anecdotally discovered something that would later be confirmed by scientific
Speaker 2: studies and something that I mentioned closer to the top
Speaker 2: of the episode. Morgellons disproportionately affects middle aged white women.
Speaker 3: Now, I don't't know about the white part, but I
Speaker 3: did notice when you gave the list earlier, is only
Speaker 3: like one guy at the very end.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's it's heavily skewed towards middle aged white women.
Speaker 2: And this is one of the reasons that the medical
Speaker 2: medical community immediately started throwing red flags up around claims
Speaker 2: of more gallons. Some of it because of misogyny, yeah,
Speaker 2: some of it because there is another disease that predominantly
Speaker 2: affects middle aged white women and ticks almost all the
Speaker 2: same boxes as more gallons.
Speaker 3: Hold on before you get into that, ye was her
Speaker 3: baby was a little boy though, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, so, and there are I mean, there
Speaker 2: was other research I was doing. I found other long
Speaker 2: form articles written about men who were experiencing this.
Speaker 3: But I mean, he's not only a guy. He's far
Speaker 3: from middle aged.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, no, no, he's a young kid with something
Speaker 2: going on and going on. But in dermatology, there is
Speaker 2: this disease called delusional parasitosis that was first described in
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty eight by a Swedish neurologist named Carl Axel Eckbom.
Speaker 3: I mean I get it, but I mean, what do
Speaker 3: you get.
Speaker 2: We're not to getting anything.
Speaker 3: I just what I get is what the other was it?
Speaker 3: Anyone who would tell me I have that would get,
Speaker 3: which is fucking furious. Yeah, like the fact that someone's like,
Speaker 3: all right, let me tell you what I think you
Speaker 3: have and it includes delusional.
Speaker 2: It's called your fucking crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like I would be like, fuck you, or he's
Speaker 3: an acronym or something. Yeah, that's such a ship name
Speaker 3: for a thing. But that's all I was gonna say.
Speaker 2: I think I think in this case, delusional is probably
Speaker 2: being used in like the medical sense of the term.
Speaker 3: Is there a medical sense?
Speaker 2: Well, it's delusional can be used as an insult, but
Speaker 2: I think delusional is like a category of mental illnesses.
Speaker 3: Mental illness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it sounds insulting, but I don't think it's
Speaker 2: quite as bad as calling it like your brain's fucking
Speaker 2: broke disease.
Speaker 3: If your brain's broke disease, is that one? What woman
Speaker 3: who did that to herself? Yeah she's got both now.
Speaker 2: Yeah shit, but so this disease Delusional parasitosis is a fixed,
Speaker 2: false belief of being infested by parasites or a foreign material.
Speaker 2: Symptoms include itching, scratching, lesions, the bugs under the skin, feeling,
Speaker 2: the formication, everything but the fibers.
Speaker 3: I know I've been holding that itching for a minute.
Speaker 3: I want to say anything about it, but yeah, I
Speaker 3: did have an itch in my head right now.
Speaker 2: If you've if, have you ever seen the movie Bug. No,
Speaker 2: so the movie Bug, I'm looking.
Speaker 3: If it has anything to do with what you've been
Speaker 3: talking about, I'm glad I have.
Speaker 2: I'm looking directly into the cameras right now because I am.
Speaker 2: If you are watching this on video, I need to
Speaker 2: implore you if you have never seen William Friedkin's Bug.
Speaker 2: I love William Freakin and it stars Ashley Judd and
Speaker 2: Michael Shannon, Michael Shannon's first major role.
Speaker 3: And I missed this freakin movie.
Speaker 2: It is fucking It's one of my favorite movies. It's
Speaker 2: really really good. It's really intense.
Speaker 3: You're twisted, bro, It's really disturbing piece of shit. But
Speaker 3: I doesn't even sit through Joe's apartment.
Speaker 2: If you've never seen Bug, you should, both because it's excellent,
Speaker 2: but also because this is basically the disease from the
Speaker 2: movie Bug. If you've ever seen Bug, Bug is sort
Speaker 2: of delusional parasitosis.
Speaker 3: To the movie doesn't not as good a title, not
Speaker 3: as good a title. That was not a great title either, honestly,
Speaker 3: but bug, it's a good title. It's a good title.
Speaker 2: It was also it was Mike, you know, Michael Shannon
Speaker 2: got the role because it was a play initially a
Speaker 2: Tracy Let's play, and Michael Shannon was I believe, originated
Speaker 2: the role and was currently performing the role in the
Speaker 2: stage version when Freedkin, I.
Speaker 3: Feel like freaking used to go to a lot of
Speaker 3: plays because that was the whole thing, where like Stacy
Speaker 3: Keach was paid to be in the exercise. Yeah, but
Speaker 3: then Friedkin had gone to a play and like saw
Speaker 3: that guy and he was like that guy should be
Speaker 3: the priest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then like whomever, that's true, and then he
Speaker 2: cast Yeah, he cast Michael Shannon, and.
Speaker 3: It was because he wants to he saw like some
Speaker 3: black box theater play. I guess Freedkin liked to go
Speaker 3: to plays.
Speaker 2: He seemed like a culture man. I could see it seems.
Speaker 3: Like he screams of a lot of people.
Speaker 2: He did Marl sure did h RP. Goblest great director.
Speaker 3: But seemed like he had a face of someone who
Speaker 3: threw coffee at a PA.
Speaker 2: Also, I should just say, if and when you do
Speaker 2: watch Bug, try to watch it with the mindset of
Speaker 2: never having seen Michael Shannon before, and you will be
Speaker 2: fucking extra floored. You're because it's like, who the fuck
Speaker 2: is this guy? Sure he's really good anyway. As part
Speaker 2: of delusional parasitosis, there's even a name for the behavior
Speaker 2: where patients bring specimens to the doctor. Dermatologists called it
Speaker 2: the match box sign, coined by a dermatologist named Alan
Speaker 2: Lyell back in nineteen eighty three, because patients would literally
Speaker 2: show up at appointments carrying little match boxes full of
Speaker 2: what they believed was evidence that they were infected with bugs.
Speaker 3: I don't know if they had like zip blocks back then.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they did either, but these people
Speaker 2: had match boxes filled with skin flakes and scab materials,
Speaker 2: sometimes just unrelated bugs.
Speaker 3: I mean that stuff could have just gotten in there.
Speaker 2: Between fifty and eighty percent of patients with delusional infestations
Speaker 2: or delusional parasitosis arrive at the doctor carrying specimens, which
Speaker 2: is exactly what many people who suffer from more gallons
Speaker 2: disease also do. They do bring them these days in
Speaker 2: ziplock bags. Or they bring files full of cell phone
Speaker 2: pictures of what they saw at home, but they bring
Speaker 2: the specimens with them.
Speaker 3: I think they have to because they've just spent fourteen
Speaker 3: hours on forums where I'm sure like every post was
Speaker 3: like nobody believes me. They won't believe you either. Make
Speaker 3: sure you show up with stuff.
Speaker 2: Well, and Mary LaTaO, to her credit, understood that this
Speaker 2: was kind of the bringing stuff was kind of a
Speaker 2: trap because she told Psychology Today, quote, you think you're
Speaker 2: bringing them evidence, but you're really just shooting yourself in
Speaker 2: the foot because as soon as one of these doctors
Speaker 2: sees you showing up with a zip block bag full
Speaker 2: of thread saying you pulled out by Yeah. The really
Speaker 2: frustrating thing though, for doc is that delusional parasitosis is
Speaker 2: a very easy as far as you know mental illnesses go,
Speaker 2: It's pretty easily treated. Three quarters of patients who are
Speaker 2: prescribed a mild antipsychotic report that their symptoms disappear completely,
Speaker 2: usually in a short period of time. The problem is
Speaker 2: that last quarter the problem turn into book Yeah, they
Speaker 2: go full Kafka, wake up, bugged out.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: The problem here, though, is that to receive that successful treatment,
Speaker 2: it requires patients to accept that the condition is psychiatric
Speaker 2: in nature and not biological, and that is the one
Speaker 2: thing that more gallon sufferers will absolutely categorically refuse to do, so,
Speaker 2: the thing that could help them, they refuse because they're like,
Speaker 2: I'm not crazy, and the doctor's like, I'm not saying
Speaker 2: you're crazy. I'm just saying, try these.
Speaker 3: Pills and if they work, you might have been crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but you know what, it'll work and you're not going
Speaker 3: to be in pain anymore.
Speaker 2: But a lot of more gallon sufferers don't want to
Speaker 2: hear it because they I understand, they don't want to
Speaker 2: be told they're crazy. I think I forget which episode
Speaker 2: it was, but you and I at one point on
Speaker 2: this show talked about chronic pain and how when I
Speaker 2: had my gallbladder, when my gallbladder was really acting up
Speaker 2: and I was in a ton of pain for days
Speaker 2: on end, that was when I really understood the idea
Speaker 2: of or how I really understood how frustrating suffering from
Speaker 2: something that you can't really prove to anybody else's happening
Speaker 2: can be. Because I luckily didn't really need to prove
Speaker 2: to anybody that I was in pain, but you do live.
Speaker 2: You're living with this agony and there's nothing If someone
Speaker 2: is if someone questioned me, if I went into the
Speaker 2: doctor and said, hey, doc, I'm just burning up and
Speaker 2: I don't know what's going on, if they said no,
Speaker 2: you're not, because I'd like, well, but I am.
Speaker 3: And yeah, but they but they be able to test
Speaker 3: their temperature, and.
Speaker 2: Yes, there's other things that they can test and and
Speaker 2: and that's part of what happened with more gallons here.
Speaker 2: As more and more and more people claim to have
Speaker 2: this disease, more people from the scientific community got invested
Speaker 2: in figuring out what the fuck was really going on here.
Speaker 2: So enter doctor Randy Wymore, an assistant professor of pharmacology
Speaker 2: and physiology at Oklahoma State and a self described quote
Speaker 2: glutton for unknowns. He stumbles onto Mary's site and his
Speaker 2: curiosity gets the best of him, and he decides he's
Speaker 2: going to figure this out. His hypothesis is that these
Speaker 2: fibers are coming from somewhere prosaic.
Speaker 3: From inside the house.
Speaker 2: Fibers are coming from inside the shirt. The problem, he thinks,
Speaker 2: is that no one's taking it seriously enough to gather
Speaker 2: fibers from the people who are suffering interesting and then
Speaker 2: do a you know, a massive collection of every other
Speaker 2: fiber they can find in the world and compare them
Speaker 2: one by one to find a match and go, Okay,
Speaker 2: here's what's going on.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a that's cool. I would love to
Speaker 3: see that if they were like, turns out none of
Speaker 3: them are cotton.
Speaker 2: Well, that summer doctor why More road trips to California
Speaker 2: and does exactly what he says he's gonna do. He
Speaker 2: pulls fibers off of every fucking thing he sees, car seats,
Speaker 2: clothing on Goodwill racks, medical supplies, sports equipment, not from people,
Speaker 2: well right, not from people.
Speaker 3: He needs to see what to rule out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's collecting samples to match against that. He knows
Speaker 2: that there's plenty of self collected samples to compare and
Speaker 2: people have those. People have those. But he goes out
Speaker 2: seeking fibers. So he pulls fibers off of everything, seeking
Speaker 2: man seeking fibers. He got in a great relationship with
Speaker 2: these fibers. They went to California together.
Speaker 3: Then they broke up. Now he's seeing liquid.
Speaker 2: I mean kind of, it's kind of where this goes.
Speaker 2: He's seeing they broke up and he's seeing alcohol because
Speaker 2: he may have ruined his career doing this. But once
Speaker 2: he collects all of these things, hundreds of Morgellon's samples
Speaker 2: start flooding his lab from desperate patients and medical professionals,
Speaker 2: and as why More starts looking at all of them,
Speaker 2: his skeptics flips does a complete one eighty because he
Speaker 2: sees that all of these fibers look alike, but they
Speaker 2: don't look like hair or skin cells, or cotton or
Speaker 2: any known textile on the planet. He then teams up
Speaker 2: with the Tulsa Police Department's crime lab to run the
Speaker 2: test through the database of over eight hundred different fibers. Okay,
Speaker 2: they match absolutely nothing. And then on February twenty third,
Speaker 2: two thousand and six, why More brings Mary and her children,
Speaker 2: who her other kids at this point are reporting suffering
Speaker 2: from similar symptoms as the first kid who started suffering,
Speaker 2: so they all go to Tulsa for a study alongside
Speaker 2: seven other more Gallon's patients and two OSU physicians, Ronda
Speaker 2: Casey and Stephen Eddie start examining the kids and within
Speaker 2: forty five seconds they find fibers lurking beneath completely unbroken
Speaker 2: skin stop it, which all sounds really impressive. I'm impressed
Speaker 2: until you examine these claims a little bit further and
Speaker 2: taking a closer look to examine these claims is exactly
Speaker 2: what brought a man named Mick West into the picture.
Speaker 2: First name mickl first name Mike, last name Wes. If
Speaker 2: you roll in conspiracy communities, you probably are familiar with Mick.
Speaker 2: If you don't, a quick introduction, Uh, he's a very
Speaker 2: controversial figure in the skeptical community. He's not controversial to skeptics,
Speaker 2: He's controversial to everyone else, the people whose theories he
Speaker 2: is obsessed with debunking. Oh so, mix a bit of
Speaker 2: a curmudgeon, but I do generally appreciate his perspective. He
Speaker 2: Actually he's forever endeared to me because the way he
Speaker 2: got his start or his first job was as a
Speaker 2: video game programmer, and he co founded Never Saw Studios.
Speaker 3: What do they do?
Speaker 2: Tony Hawk's pro Skater?
Speaker 3: Oh wow?
Speaker 2: Mick West was the technical director on Tony Hawk's pro Skater.
Speaker 2: He helped program the skating, physics and everything. He left
Speaker 2: the video game industry a very rich man in two
Speaker 2: thousand and three, and these days make his better known
Speaker 2: as the founder of skeptic website metabunk, and he is
Speaker 2: one of the leading skeptics of the UAP phenomenon. I
Speaker 2: will say I think he is a very good skeptic.
Speaker 2: It doesn't seem like he'd be particularly fun at parties.
Speaker 3: No, he's always blasting Goldfinger.
Speaker 2: He's like, I can't stop listening to it. No, he's
Speaker 2: just he's a very kind of somber, serious man. But
Speaker 2: he does make really compelling cases in his skeptical arguments,
Speaker 2: often backed up by software that he himself has developed
Speaker 2: to take UAP video and analyze the flight patterns, atmospheric
Speaker 2: distortions the sky, what was going on, you know, everything.
Speaker 2: So he's become a bit of an enemy of the
Speaker 2: of the UAP community. But anyway, he enters the picture
Speaker 2: here because in two thousand and six he began his
Speaker 2: first major skepticism campaign, targeted at the bunk science surrounding Morgellons.
Speaker 2: He founded Morgellan's Watch, a direct answer to the Morgellen's
Speaker 2: Research Foundation, and the findings that he turned up around
Speaker 2: doctor Wymore's study are really interesting.
Speaker 3: After Wymore is a guy who's driving around pick fucking fibers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, First, West points out that the scope was
Speaker 2: tiny and informal. The Tulsa PD ultimately only tested four fibers,
Speaker 2: two red and two blue, and, as micclarified in his
Speaker 2: original articles on this, what they compared it to was
Speaker 2: an eight hundred fiber database, not a one hundred thousand
Speaker 2: fiber FBI database, as some reports erroneously suggested.
Speaker 3: Okay, a police.
Speaker 2: Forensics lab is also designed to match crime scene fibers
Speaker 2: to known textiles, and it's not equipped to identify every
Speaker 2: biological material on Earth. So no match in our database
Speaker 2: doesn't mean this isn't from clothing. It means we don't
Speaker 2: happen on our database.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Second, why more? And this one gets me. I don't
Speaker 2: know why anybody who is investigating something that is really
Speaker 2: hard to believe and truly has an interest in solving
Speaker 2: the mystery does this. But a lot of them do.
Speaker 3: He never published any of his findings in a peer
Speaker 3: reviewed paper. Why not? I know, I know it's why
Speaker 3: you just said that saying it, but I'm saying, like, yeah,
Speaker 3: question fucking do it?
Speaker 2: If you have this happens with alien implants a lot.
Speaker 2: If you have physical evidence of something that is undeniably strange.
Speaker 2: It is beyond me how any well meaning man of
Speaker 2: science or woman of science doesn't send those samples out
Speaker 2: in the world going, please figure out what this is.
Speaker 3: It's weird. Seen.
Speaker 2: It's weird to me that you wouldn't want that unless
Speaker 2: what you really care about is another lab proving you
Speaker 2: right and not another lab proving you wrong.
Speaker 3: But I've seen enough movies and TV shows where it's like,
Speaker 3: I can't give this alien finger I found to the
Speaker 3: lab because the men in black will take it, or
Speaker 3: if I try and show it, if I publish my material,
Speaker 3: they'll come and take me away.
Speaker 2: Well in this case, though, you know, in the in
Speaker 2: the early days of Morgellon's study, I don't think this
Speaker 2: was registering on the level of alien finger. It was
Speaker 2: a weird thing, but nobody at this point was being
Speaker 2: particular early conspiratorial about it. It was a disease I
Speaker 2: saw in some of the research that part of another
Speaker 2: thing that kind of fanned the flames here is you
Speaker 2: were talking about fibromyalgia earlier.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well I know some people who have it,
Speaker 3: and it's like that's another difficult thing where they've seen
Speaker 3: a lot of doctors.
Speaker 2: Well, and the lot of pain. The medical community had
Speaker 2: really just recognized fibromyalgia relatively soon before this Morgallon stuff started.
Speaker 2: So there was a recent example of a case with
Speaker 2: a bunch of people saying that they had these weird
Speaker 2: symptoms that no one could explain, and they were able
Speaker 2: to define it. So, especially at this point, some of
Speaker 2: these people were seen a little bit as kooks, but
Speaker 2: it wasn't out of the question that there was something
Speaker 2: real going on here. Anyway. I think it's ridiculous that
Speaker 2: you would not submit to peeroview papers. And it is
Speaker 2: a big red flag. As for the discovery of those
Speaker 2: fibers in forty five seconds beneath the skin. Dermatologists Noah
Speaker 2: Craft at Harvard UCLA, who has actually biopsied Morgellon's patients
Speaker 2: skin okay, meaning he's like taken flesh and skin samples
Speaker 2: and not just felt for fibers beneath the skin. And
Speaker 2: it's weird to me too that they bragged that they
Speaker 2: found them in forty five seconds. That seems like a really.
Speaker 3: You think they just mean that, like they're so prevalent.
Speaker 2: That they found them. Yeah, it didn't take us long
Speaker 2: to find a fiber. It sounds like they just didn't
Speaker 2: look very hard and said that might be a bump.
Speaker 2: That's a fiber. I think that's a fiber, is what that? Yes?
Speaker 3: Sure, and the guy with the stopwatch is like, and
Speaker 3: that's a new record.
Speaker 2: Oh you guys did it faster than anybody this. Doctor
Speaker 2: Noah Kraft says that in his biopsies he has never
Speaker 2: seen anything to suggest that Morgellons is a real condition
Speaker 2: in the sense that it is a biological in nature.
Speaker 2: In fact, the only place Kraft says he has ever
Speaker 2: seen evidence of all of these fibers are the photos
Speaker 2: on the Morgallan's Research Foundation website, and to his eyes,
Speaker 2: they look like fibers and fabric and on occasion collagen
Speaker 2: fibers from within the skin. In the biopsies I have taken,
Speaker 2: he says, there appears to be only normal skin and inflammation,
Speaker 2: as one would find in a bump that has been
Speaker 2: picked at. Another doctor, Jeff Meffert, goes one further. This
Speaker 2: fiber's business, he says, as presented by the fiber disease community,
Speaker 2: is nonsense. They have not convinced me, and quite honestly,
Speaker 2: they have pissed me off. Oh my God, the only
Speaker 2: fibers he's ever seen, he says, are consistent with animal hair,
Speaker 2: human hair, or textile fibers. And he also says that
Speaker 2: I saw fibers this quote from an article. I saw
Speaker 2: fibers stuck to the eximus scalb of everyone I saw today.
Speaker 2: Every patient with oozing, weeping skin has fibers stuck to
Speaker 2: their skin. In other words, the skeptical community basically sees
Speaker 2: more Gallons as a particularly bad case of delusional parasitosis
Speaker 2: that traps its victims in that cycle of itch. Pick scratch,
Speaker 2: find the fiber.
Speaker 3: I'm not crazy, I'm not taking the pills. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Pick more, Yeah, gets worse, gets worse, gets worse. I
Speaker 2: will also say, in my research here, I did have
Speaker 2: trouble pinning down where some of these fibers went. How
Speaker 2: many fibers have been collected, how many are available for
Speaker 2: public study? Because it seems like thousands and thousands and
Speaker 2: thousands and thousands of photos of these fibers have been
Speaker 2: submitted to all kinds of different mor Gallons groups across
Speaker 2: the internet. Yeah, but it doesn't. It does seem to
Speaker 2: me that people have been collecting fibers, and some of them.
Speaker 3: For seventy years.
Speaker 2: It seems like some of the fibers that people are
Speaker 2: saying are more gallons do seem to be weirder than others,
Speaker 2: and I had trouble. I think part of the reason
Speaker 2: I had trouble is because some of this is so
Speaker 2: easily and readily dismissed that you're basically either reading a
Speaker 2: mor Gallons fan page that says, look at all this
Speaker 2: shit that's one hundred percent real, or you're reading a
Speaker 2: medical study that's like, these people are delusional and we
Speaker 2: really have no interest in talking to them. So the
Speaker 2: reality I think of, I allow for a little bit
Speaker 2: of some of these fibers might be really weird, and
Speaker 2: I think there may be a little bit of some
Speaker 2: of this getting lost in the cracks. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't We'll talk more about whether or not more
Speaker 2: Gallons is actually real in a bit, But it was
Speaker 2: frustrating for me to not be able to find a
Speaker 2: straight answer to Okay, that person who said they had
Speaker 2: this disease said they collected hundreds of fibers. Where did
Speaker 2: those fibers go? Did a doctor ever see them? Or
Speaker 2: did they just claim to have those fibers? There's a
Speaker 2: lot of that going on.
Speaker 3: I think what's I think it's within the realm of
Speaker 3: possibilities to just get a little place together that collects
Speaker 3: all the fibers.
Speaker 2: Well, that's what the more Gallons Research Foundation was supposed to.
Speaker 3: I mean, like collect them now, don't don't send me
Speaker 3: a picture of your shoe box, right like you right, hairs.
Speaker 3: I mean like, hey, everybody gets to send in five
Speaker 3: and and well, we have an ever growing that. You know,
Speaker 3: we've made a deal with the FBI that we have
Speaker 3: access the API to their fucking database. Yeah, and you
Speaker 3: bring sense something in and we send you back. The
Speaker 3: problem with that is nobody wants the responsibility. Nobody wants
Speaker 3: to get them and then be like, hey, I got
Speaker 3: a rejection letters, especially like oh shit, they sent it
Speaker 3: back and said it was my carpet.
Speaker 2: That's sort of on some level, finding someone to take
Speaker 2: responsibility for this research is sort of what happened next,
Speaker 2: because according to jazzabel Quote, it was through the more
Speaker 2: Gallon's Research Foundation website and the many sites that spawned
Speaker 2: that Morgellon's patients decided to launch a letter writing campaign.
Speaker 2: They flooded the mailboxes of nearly every member of Congress
Speaker 2: with a persuasive case that sounded a lot like fibromyalgia.
Speaker 2: Thousands of Americans, a disproportionate number of them women, recounting
Speaker 2: an excruciating, strange pain and their reality, they said, had
Speaker 2: been dismissed by physicians who told them there was either
Speaker 2: nothing physically wrong or the source of their pain was
Speaker 2: common scabies or some other skin infection. There was so
Speaker 2: much mail that senators of no less star power than
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton and John McCain and Barack Obama decided to
Speaker 2: take the disease seriously and they pushed the CDC to
Speaker 2: issue a study.
Speaker 3: We got to get some of this in the vaccine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, guys, in about fifteen years, we've got something
Speaker 2: big coming down to fight. We gotta get this shit
Speaker 2: in there. Well, it was a little unusual for them
Speaker 2: to ask the CDC to issue this study because the
Speaker 2: CDC only studies infectious diseases, and there was really no
Speaker 2: evidence that this was an infectious disease of any kind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, one was like, my baby went to daycare
Speaker 3: and they came back also with hairs.
Speaker 2: Yes, and every baby at the daycare started sprouting hairs.
Speaker 2: So the CDC pulled a great little government docy doe
Speaker 2: and they funneled somewhere in the neighborhood of six hundred
Speaker 2: thousand tax dollars to Kaiser Permanente and ask them to.
Speaker 3: Do the research. California places it is.
Speaker 2: And part of the reason Kaiser Permanente was chosen is
Speaker 2: because there was a large concentration of cases of Morgallons
Speaker 2: being reported out of northern California. So shit, that was
Speaker 2: part of why Kaiser was chosen, because they had easy
Speaker 2: access to the medical records of this group of people.
Speaker 3: And if they have access to the medical records of
Speaker 3: the state, yes, forty million people versus any other state.
Speaker 2: So Kaiser searched the electronic health records of the people
Speaker 2: that they covered to identify clinic visits with certain keywords
Speaker 2: like Morgellons obviously, fiber thread, fuzzball, dots, specs, granules, and delusion.
Speaker 2: Recorded in the case notes the statement I brought it
Speaker 2: with me, Yeah, it's right here.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: This search pulled down one hundred and fifteen case patients,
Speaker 2: one hundred of whom agreed to answer survey questions and
Speaker 2: forty consented to physical and psychological testing. Fibers were collected
Speaker 2: for analysis and sent to the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology.
Speaker 2: The study was reviewed and approved by the institutional review
Speaker 2: boards at the CDC, at the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology,
Speaker 2: and at the University of Rochester. It took four years
Speaker 2: from the beginning of this study in two thousand and
Speaker 2: eight to its publication in twenty twelve and ed but
Speaker 2: what do you think the CDC found, in fact that.
Speaker 3: We're not talking about more Gallon's regularly tells me. They
Speaker 3: maybe said this was a maybe not a great use
Speaker 3: of our money.
Speaker 2: They did not discover a biological cause for this disease.
Speaker 2: They did find that most of the fibers collected from
Speaker 2: participant skin were composed of cellulose aka cotton fibers.
Speaker 3: But you said six hundred grand, six hundred grand, which
Speaker 3: is really much. People spend six hundred grand a day
Speaker 3: in like pharmaceuticals to figure something like to do nothing
Speaker 3: probable party.
Speaker 2: Well probably this was more money back then, But yes,
Speaker 2: not a huge amount of money. But still on the
Speaker 2: biopsy side, because they collected biopsies, things weren't looking any
Speaker 2: more convincing. The most common abnormality present in fifty one
Speaker 2: percent of biopsies was something called solar ilestosis, which sounded
Speaker 2: very mysterious to me, so I googled it and it
Speaker 2: just basically means skin damage from the sun.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Lesions were most consistent with arthropod bites, so scabies or
Speaker 2: ticks or whatever, fleas or chronic excortiations meaning just lots
Speaker 2: of scratching. No parasites or mycobacteria were ever detected. Mark Eberhard,
Speaker 2: the director of the CDC's Division of Parasitic Diseases, tried
Speaker 2: to soften the blow to the demanding public by saying, quote,
Speaker 2: it's a negative, but it really limits and narrows down
Speaker 2: the field of possibilities by removing a couple of the
Speaker 2: big players infections and environment, that still leaves some wide
Speaker 2: open territory about what could be the causes. He also
Speaker 2: stressed the studies should not be interpreted to conclude that
Speaker 2: the problem is all in the sufferer's heads.
Speaker 3: Okay, they're just saying that it's not the stuff we
Speaker 3: do here.
Speaker 2: Yes, and he says this study should be a baseline
Speaker 2: for future research.
Speaker 3: Now, there was really very little.
Speaker 2: Future research ever done because most of the scientific community
Speaker 2: took this to mean exactly what market not to mean yeah,
Speaker 2: and to be There are critics of this study. It
Speaker 2: wasn't perfect. Some people have pointed out that drawing participants
Speaker 2: from that single geographic area in northern California really limited
Speaker 2: the ability to have a diverse group of people that
Speaker 2: you were studying. It's a small sample size. Some of
Speaker 2: the language in the paper they thought felt dismissive. But
Speaker 2: in terms of the methodology on display here biopsies, spectroscopies,
Speaker 2: forensic fiber analysis, and psychiatric evaluations, this was the most
Speaker 2: rigorous investigation of Morgallons ever conducted to this day, nothing
Speaker 2: else has ever really come close. But of course that
Speaker 2: answer didn't satisfy people suffering from more gallons, and unfortunately,
Speaker 2: once science put more gallons down, conspiracy theorists picked it
Speaker 2: right back up.
Speaker 3: That tends to be the case.
Speaker 2: Tends to be what happens. And here's where things get
Speaker 2: really fun, because everything we've talked about has been grounded
Speaker 2: in either real science or real suffering.
Speaker 3: But once the CDC pissed off.
Speaker 2: The entire Morgallons community, real went out the window, and
Speaker 2: the CDC became part of a widespread government conspiracy to
Speaker 2: cover up the truth about more gallons.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. At this point there could just be
Speaker 3: like get in line like everybody at this point. For conspiracies,
Speaker 3: lets turned the CDC. You might as well be called
Speaker 3: Conspiracy Department Central.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, never the CDC in the central department.
Speaker 2: FEMA is the other one that's always being pegged, is
Speaker 2: like they're opening the camps.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I literally haven't even figured out the
Speaker 3: acronym that I'm trying to make. You throw a FEMA
Speaker 3: in your face, in my face, So I think Central
Speaker 3: Department for.
Speaker 2: Conspiracies, it is pretty good.
Speaker 3: And pretty good, and then FEMA would have to be
Speaker 3: fake emergency. Emergency is really emergency. Okay, well then what's
Speaker 3: what's your skin called? Epidurus, epidurro fake epidural manipulated or
Speaker 3: mind disease? E wait a FIMA. I don't know, it's
Speaker 3: hard to do in real time.
Speaker 2: I'll give you what you can. You can go back
Speaker 2: and uh, you can kind of drop something in later
Speaker 2: it'll sound bite time. So the truth about Morgellans, the
Speaker 2: capital T truth about Morgellons depends you ask what that
Speaker 2: truth is. I really want to know what Mary le
Speaker 2: Tao thinks. The woman who started all of this. Can
Speaker 2: you recall, Well, I would, But after the CDC study
Speaker 2: came out, she shut down the Morgallan's Research Foundation and
Speaker 2: disappeared from public life entirely. As of this recording, she
Speaker 2: hasn't given an interview or made a public statement in
Speaker 2: more than a decade.
Speaker 3: This is our chance she just vanished. Well, no one knows.
Speaker 2: No one has been able to find her.
Speaker 3: Well, you keep telling me that all the stuff I
Speaker 3: read about missing scientists right now is bullshit.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's bullshit. I just think connecting. We're
Speaker 2: recording this in the middle of the time period where
Speaker 2: a couple of scientists related to strange physics experiments went
Speaker 2: missing in the United States. So that's what Ed's referring to.
Speaker 2: If you're listening to this five or ten years in
Speaker 2: the future, and if those people and Mary Lttou came back.
Speaker 3: They're all on the show.
Speaker 2: They're all on this.
Speaker 3: We got to ask them where they went? Was another dimension? Yeah?
Speaker 2: No, Mary lettaw just apparently her and her whole family vanished.
Speaker 2: The woman who named the disease, who built the movement,
Speaker 2: lobbied Congress, got them to spend hundreds of thousand dollars.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna wear photos of her and stuff like she
Speaker 2: was a real person. He's a real person, you see,
Speaker 2: like a mirage men situation. No, it's not a mirage
Speaker 2: men situation. But it does seem like she heard the
Speaker 2: answer that this isn't real and for some reason walked away.
Speaker 2: I would like to give her the credit that maybe
Speaker 2: she realized she'd really stepped in it and got mega
Speaker 2: embarrassed and just decided to dip. But if that's the case,
Speaker 2: it would have also been nice for her to issue
Speaker 2: some kind of a statement or something to be like, hey.
Speaker 3: My bad, or even just any statement, whether it's my bad,
Speaker 3: I've seen the air, or my ways, or even another
Speaker 3: statement that's like, will never stop fighting, but I need
Speaker 3: for me my family to take some space from something
Speaker 3: that I'm very passionate about. But this latest blow has
Speaker 3: been difficult on all of us, and we need to
Speaker 3: to a minute fucking being bloped sixty nine on the forum.
Speaker 3: We'll step up as lead moderator and to do with
Speaker 3: this company, which you please. But that was a really
Speaker 3: good apology. It's something like that, not an apology, but
Speaker 3: just like do.
Speaker 2: You write an emergency pr in your head a lot. No,
Speaker 2: that came right out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, but I'm saying like, those are
Speaker 3: two ways she could have stepped away gracefully.
Speaker 2: I'm like, what are we bracing for?
Speaker 3: It?
Speaker 2: The podcast here, and I'd just like to say for
Speaker 2: my family and my friends.
Speaker 3: There are also.
Speaker 2: Many rumors and accusations of financial improprieties taken with the
Speaker 2: funds that she raised through the MRF. So alternate theory,
Speaker 2: she's a criminal and started a scam and got away
Speaker 2: with it.
Speaker 3: I feel that way about anything. I want all charities
Speaker 3: to be squeaky clean. I want all five oh one
Speaker 3: c's or whatever. But it's like, yeah, there's money coming
Speaker 3: in until someone's taking it somewhere. You know, she.
Speaker 2: Didn't pass the MRF the more Gallon's Research Foundation. She
Speaker 2: didn't pass it down to anyone in her absence. It's
Speaker 2: a little unclear exactly what happened and who took it over.
Speaker 2: But if you try to go to the Morgallons Research Foundation,
Speaker 2: it now directs to Morgellons dot org and the.
Speaker 3: First multi level Marketing Scheme.
Speaker 2: The first thing you'll notice is the fact that the organization,
Speaker 2: or what's left of it has to come to the
Speaker 2: most yogurt brained conspiracy minded people on.
Speaker 3: The planet, because yogurt brain.
Speaker 2: Just mush brained, no thoughts.
Speaker 3: That's not a fault of their own. They scratched until
Speaker 3: their skull opened.
Speaker 2: That's what happens when you have skull itch. The thing
Speaker 2: that tipped me off to the fact that they chose
Speaker 2: a path here is that one of the headlines across
Speaker 2: the top of the page screams keemtrails and Morgellons. It's
Speaker 2: worse than you thought. The writer of this urgent article
Speaker 2: describes the way that they've been tracking the appearance of
Speaker 2: keemtrails over their town and what they discovered in local
Speaker 2: water sources that they believe fell from these chemtrails, which
Speaker 2: is apparently some kind of fibers that they believe are
Speaker 2: hied to more gallons. I can send you the photos
Speaker 2: from this article. If you want to put any of
Speaker 2: them up on screen, you can, but they basically just
Speaker 2: look like fibers under a microscope. Most of the audience
Speaker 2: can probably imagine what that looks like. The quotes here
Speaker 2: are wild. I couldn't really make head tail, heads or
Speaker 2: tails of what exactly this person's arguing, But I will
Speaker 2: quote them at length here because maybe someone in the
Speaker 2: audience knows what they're saying or ed maybe you can decipher.
Speaker 2: So this person explains their little science experiment. Thusly quote
Speaker 2: the alkalizing of water and any water based air breathing
Speaker 2: organism allows for increased storage and even the creation of
Speaker 2: DC current.
Speaker 3: What's alkaliz what does that mean.
Speaker 2: To alkalize water?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Can't you like buy alkaline water or something like that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's see. I don't actually know. I know people
Speaker 2: like drinking alkaline water.
Speaker 3: At the beginning of what you started, that sentence makes
Speaker 3: it think like you shouldn't drink that water.
Speaker 2: It's a water with a higher pH level than regular
Speaker 2: tap water, achieved by adding minerals or using electrolysis to
Speaker 2: reduce acid, used for potential health benefits like enhancing hydration,
Speaker 2: relieving acid reflux, and improving metabolic acidosis.
Speaker 3: And that's different than just having a gatorade.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, I believe that is different than that.
Speaker 3: It's not just like electro lights or whatever. No, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's electrolytes. They use electrolysis to reduce acid.
Speaker 2: I don't think electro lights have anything.
Speaker 3: To do with that, right, So.
Speaker 2: This person is saying that when you alkalize water, any
Speaker 2: water based air breathing organism allows for increased storage and
Speaker 2: the creation of DC current, especially when mixed with other
Speaker 2: components slash chemicals. I proved this in myself with only
Speaker 2: a pretty good digital voltmeter, so another eight dollars RadioShack special.
Speaker 2: I guess I measure my voltage constantly by just wetting
Speaker 2: my fingers and squeezing the probes.
Speaker 3: In the matrix. I think there's probably electric occurrence going
Speaker 3: through us. We are batteries.
Speaker 2: I started looking at the collected water with an old
Speaker 2: microscope in early April by drying about thirty drops on
Speaker 2: a microscope slide, and saw immediately what appeared to be
Speaker 2: what I'd seen coming from Morgellons patients on the web.
Speaker 2: I really had thought the story was a hoax, quite frankly,
Speaker 2: but now I know otherwise.
Speaker 3: I started to.
Speaker 2: Look at all my samples and found dozens of these fibers.
Speaker 2: Confirmation of what these fibers were came when a quote
Speaker 2: golden head nanosensor was isolated. I don't know what that is.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure it's real.
Speaker 2: This confirmation was quite the shock because I knew then
Speaker 2: all of us in the White Mountains at least were
Speaker 2: all being infected with this bizarre nano affliction infestation infection.
Speaker 3: The White Mountains where they live. They live in the West.
Speaker 2: Ros Jesus, why the voltage thing is so important? I've
Speaker 2: observed in my jars that were electualized that the growth
Speaker 2: of what I've learned or called quote synthetic model organisms
Speaker 2: or artificial life forms is greatly enhanced and increased. The
Speaker 2: fibers they call morgellons increase in about six months to
Speaker 2: almost visible with the naked eye or magnifying glass. One
Speaker 2: such clump of fibers has gone from a dozen microscopic
Speaker 2: fibers to about one hundred or so and can easily
Speaker 2: be extracted by tweezers.
Speaker 3: Which they're saying if they put it in alkaline water,
Speaker 3: it grows and becomes a greater number and apparently yes, okay.
Speaker 2: One plausible explanation of how the flat ribbon plausible aed
Speaker 2: One plausible explanation I'm ready for it for how the
Speaker 2: flat ribbon like fibers seem to grow even on glass,
Speaker 2: is that these synthetic model organisms can assemble plastic components
Speaker 2: from the air, water, or wherever present, and use DC
Speaker 2: current as part of their assembly technique, or they are
Speaker 2: feeding off the silicone in the glass or both.
Speaker 3: Right, the first one. It's been proven forever chemicals floating around.
Speaker 2: It's been proven that plants extract most of their mineral
Speaker 2: content from the air, not the soil, as as was
Speaker 2: once believed. Nanotech is designed to mimic the things that
Speaker 2: man has discovered about how nature works, assembles itself, et cetera.
Speaker 3: They're saying that more gallons is like nanotechnology.
Speaker 2: They're saying that Morgallons is some sort of a nanotechnology
Speaker 2: that uses DC current and silicone in the glass or
Speaker 2: both to grow once it's dropped on the populace from chemtrails.
Speaker 3: Okay, and the best we've well, I guess only six
Speaker 3: hundred grand went into one of these studies. But and
Speaker 3: the best we can do is make hair. Apparently we
Speaker 3: have the ability to do nanotechnology. And the best you
Speaker 3: can do is assemble itself like hair.
Speaker 2: Erector set itchy hair, itchy hair, if it gets even
Speaker 2: get hair. There's another section though, on the website called
Speaker 2: Revelations from a Man who helped design Morgallon's disease. That
Speaker 2: features a link to two different videos which unfortunately have
Speaker 2: been taken down off the Internet.
Speaker 3: Because they were just viruses they may.
Speaker 2: Have been, and the following description. These two videos are
Speaker 2: well done and well researched by Clifford Carnacom and doctor
Speaker 2: Gwen Scott. They are perhaps the two of the most
Speaker 2: important videos ever to be made. If you have not
Speaker 2: viewed these videos, you need to do at asap. These
Speaker 2: videos are not casual entertainment. They are about all of us,
Speaker 2: not just a few people with a weird disease called
Speaker 2: called Morgellons, but about all of us. This information personally
Speaker 2: affects every person you love and care about. It is
Speaker 2: about your grandchildren, your family, pet, your loved ones, and
Speaker 2: even people down the street that you don't care about.
Speaker 3: I mean, this is I made a joke about forever
Speaker 3: chemicals earlier, but I think we should be making videos
Speaker 3: like this about forever chemicals.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Probably, I'm sure somebody is. Yeah, So we don't have
Speaker 2: the videos, unfortunately, because I really wanted to watch them
Speaker 2: because they were too filled the truth. I think they
Speaker 2: were taken down by the truth police. But what doctor
Speaker 2: Scott says on camera in reference to meeting this man
Speaker 2: who claims to have designed Morgallons. Is transcribed on the website,
Speaker 2: and so we do know that this is part of
Speaker 2: what doctor Scott said. He being the guy who designed Morgallons,
Speaker 2: explained to me something that I knew that I had
Speaker 2: kind of forgotten. Every organ in your body has a
Speaker 2: specific frequence, and it operates that frequency, and even when
Speaker 2: you interrupt that frequency electromagnetically, you can create all kinds
Speaker 2: of serious, even unto death problem.
Speaker 3: Is that true.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I didn't I didn't realize what it held,
Speaker 3: Like a magnet up to you. You can make your
Speaker 3: arm move or something.
Speaker 2: He also talked about areas of the brain and mind control,
Speaker 2: and as Orewellian as that may seem apparently scientifically, it
Speaker 2: is very real. We know from Clifford's work for years
Speaker 2: now the big red Dog no Clifford Corners covered in hair,
Speaker 2: Clifford Carnacom, the other researcher involved here. We know from
Speaker 2: Clifford's work for years now the electromagnetic properties of what's
Speaker 2: happening in our air supply as a result of the
Speaker 2: manipulation and the manipulation of that. Beyond that, he the
Speaker 2: inventor of Morgellons, talked about then confirmed to me the
Speaker 2: heavy metals, the barium, the titanium, the aluminum, none of which,
Speaker 2: trust me, are good for the human.
Speaker 3: That's what I'm always saying.
Speaker 2: He talked about the biological He said all of it
Speaker 2: had been altered. Some of it, and Clifford had alluded
Speaker 2: to earlier in the video can kind of escape your
Speaker 2: immune system and cloak itself in one form or another. Again,
Speaker 2: he spoke of the electromagnetics and also the lack of oxygen,
Speaker 2: the displacement of oxygen. The more you displace oxygen out
Speaker 2: of the air supply with particulates in parentheses, it could
Speaker 2: be corn flakes, it doesn't matter, the mortality rate goes up. Concurrently,
Speaker 2: we are operating on a very low level of oxygen.
Speaker 3: Well, we've learned that before. Remember, it turns out we
Speaker 3: are and it's fine.
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I certainly feel like I'm operating on
Speaker 2: a very low level of oxygen after reading all of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, you've been talking for a while. I'm desperate
Speaker 3: to see these videos.
Speaker 2: I will continue to scour the internet. If we find them,
Speaker 2: we will post them on the Instagram because it.
Speaker 3: Sounds like there's a lot of answers in there that
Speaker 3: I've been waiting for.
Speaker 2: It feels a bit too dismissive to end this episode
Speaker 2: on a note of damn, that all sounds pretty stupid.
Speaker 3: I never said that once. I feel like I've been
Speaker 3: team Morgel in this whole time.
Speaker 2: Well, that last those last couple of paragraphs I think
Speaker 2: might be some of the most.
Speaker 3: That's the first time I felt like it truly made
Speaker 3: sense to me. That's why I need to see these videos.
Speaker 2: Okay, So if I asked you to repeat the theories
Speaker 2: heavy metals.
Speaker 3: Have you here?
Speaker 2: You just want to You just want to study the
Speaker 2: forever chemicals.
Speaker 3: I am. I'm anti forever chemicals.
Speaker 2: Anyone with the brain would be. But I don't understand
Speaker 2: the connection. It jumps around these explanations so much that
Speaker 2: it's not even really putting together with theory.
Speaker 3: I get it. A couple of soft yoga heads like you, man,
Speaker 3: you can't. You can't follow it the way it.
Speaker 2: Is, yogurt brained white mountain folk.
Speaker 3: Now you're flathead dude. I followed it fine. I followed
Speaker 3: the whole thing. I was enthralled.
Speaker 2: Well, okay, so do you feel at this point that
Speaker 2: there is any good scientific evidence suggesting that more gallons
Speaker 2: is a biological disease.
Speaker 3: Biological meaning it human beings have it.
Speaker 2: That No, that it's some sort of infectious spread.
Speaker 3: I do not think it's an infectious spreading disease. I
Speaker 3: think you can have more.
Speaker 2: Gallons from a psychological perspective, from.
Speaker 3: A physical or physically feeling paid, whether it's psychological or otherwise.
Speaker 3: I think these people are physically feeling paid.
Speaker 2: Yes, I agree.
Speaker 3: And as you know, like I said, like with fibermails
Speaker 3: or something, and you're gonna go like twenty years from
Speaker 3: now and it's like, oh, it turns out that was
Speaker 3: a thing. And so I'm not being outwardly dismissive of it.
Speaker 3: I think six hundred grand doesn't buy you a fucking
Speaker 3: grape at Pfizer. And so it's like, you know, I'm
Speaker 3: sure there's some more studying to be done. I'd be
Speaker 3: very interested to see a larger sample of the database
Speaker 3: of hairs, or at least it tested against larger sample sizes. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm saying there's got to be I don't know some
Speaker 3: Museum of Hair or something like what do they got?
Speaker 3: You know what I mean, Like, we gotta find the
Speaker 3: best spot to check it against, because I would love
Speaker 3: to just see if somebody be like, fuck, man, somebody
Speaker 3: in Tokyo and somebody in bang the Dash they have
Speaker 3: the exact same ribbon fiber and they never made this clothing. Well,
Speaker 3: and that's to me exciting, and so I don't want
Speaker 3: to I don't want to dismiss people who are in pain,
Speaker 3: and I also don't want to dismiss the excitement of
Speaker 3: finding out that that it's a real thing.
Speaker 2: And that doctor who collected all those fibers, he did
Speaker 2: claim that they found fibers from people that matched each other,
Speaker 2: but nothing else that the fibers matched from different.
Speaker 3: That's what I'm looking for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he was never then able to replicate those
Speaker 2: results or show any real proof of those results. He
Speaker 2: just said that that was the case.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, so that's the beginning. We got to go
Speaker 3: find the second example.
Speaker 2: I think I agree with you for the most part.
Speaker 2: I think I probably feel like there's less of a
Speaker 2: chance that more Gellon's is actually a real physical disease
Speaker 2: that we just haven't discovered but I do agree with
Speaker 2: you that a lot of people are suffering from something
Speaker 2: that probably most likely is a modern or evolved form
Speaker 2: of that delusional parasitosis.
Speaker 3: And I do think you should be able to be like, listen,
Speaker 3: you're your doctor visits are free if because it's not
Speaker 3: a the botomy you were asking for here, Like your
Speaker 3: doctor visits are free, and you'll be taking seriously at
Speaker 3: this clinic if you also, maybe we're like, let me
Speaker 3: try the make the itch go away pill. Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: We want to try everything. I know it sounds scary.
Speaker 3: I know it sounds dangerous, but I promise you it's
Speaker 3: not gonna be shock treatment and it's not habit forming
Speaker 3: or whatever this case may be. Like give it, give
Speaker 3: it two weeks, and I promise this facility will still
Speaker 3: be here when you get back. Like this isn't a
Speaker 3: smoke screen, right, We're not going to report you to
Speaker 3: this get scared all time used that we were not
Speaker 3: one hundred percent sure as a real bank.
Speaker 2: We're gonna find out in the next couple of months, I.
Speaker 3: Think, Yeah, but so far the website still open. So far,
Speaker 3: so good. So that's how I would handle it.
Speaker 2: The scariest thing about more Gallons to me is sort
Speaker 2: of the scary thing about gang stalking, which is that
Speaker 2: there's this gap between the reality of the pain and
Speaker 2: the unreality of the explanation, and that is where Morgellons lives.
Speaker 2: There was a line that I saw in the research
Speaker 2: it's suffering caused in part by the search for the
Speaker 2: cause of suffering. Yeah, and I think that kind of.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's also sums up scratching your own brain.
Speaker 3: That's the same way to get there.
Speaker 2: Well, the scratching your own brain is coming from the purely.
Speaker 3: It's that person is suffering from the cause of the suffering,
Speaker 3: that they're searching for the cause of the suffering ended
Speaker 3: up in their own brain.
Speaker 2: Well, I think in the case of Morgallons.
Speaker 3: Though, Okay, I'm saying, it's not a search, they're just
Speaker 3: trying to edch Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's a
Speaker 3: pretty good quote could be applied many places.
Speaker 2: The essays Leslie Jamison attended the annual Morgallon's conference in
Speaker 2: Austin back in twenty twelve and wrote about it for
Speaker 2: Harper's Magazine. She's a skeptic. She knows the medical consensus.
Speaker 2: She went there as a journalist, and after spending a
Speaker 2: weekend with sufferers of Morgallons, she wrote quote, the night
Speaker 2: after my meeting with Paul, I couldn't sleep for all
Speaker 2: the itching. I had two showers before bed and another
Speaker 2: in the morning. All through the convention, I am tormented,
Speaker 2: driven to senseless scratching.
Speaker 3: This is a random lady who just went with no
Speaker 3: signs of Morgallon.
Speaker 2: Correct, But I think that kind of says it all.
Speaker 2: She never came to believe that she was suffering from
Speaker 2: more gallons. But this is not a disease that afflicts
Speaker 2: the weak or the stupid. It's a disease that is
Speaker 2: contagious through suggestion.
Speaker 3: It's like that dancing disease.
Speaker 2: Kind of yeah, the dancing disease that I think by now,
Speaker 2: if you listen, if you are subscribed for NFU's, you
Speaker 2: probably will have heard that. But that's one of the
Speaker 2: scariest things I can imagine. A disease that is transmitted
Speaker 2: through suggestion is really frightening.
Speaker 3: Have you been on the internet disease suggestion at this point? Then?
Speaker 2: So that brings us to the end of our exploration
Speaker 2: of the disease. That may or may not be real,
Speaker 2: or might be both. More gallons, and we have to
Speaker 2: place it on our fear tire. So, ed, where are
Speaker 2: you going to place the mystery of Morgallon on your
Speaker 2: fear too?
Speaker 3: I'm going to do a hot weekend in Austin at
Speaker 3: the convention. AN eight sounds like everyone who goes there
Speaker 3: walks away with a little itch mm hmm, and otherwise
Speaker 3: a one.
Speaker 2: I'm also going to put more gallons at A one.
Speaker 2: I do think it is a.
Speaker 3: I feel like I would have known if I had
Speaker 3: it by now.
Speaker 2: You would have known if you had it.
Speaker 3: I only thought I had it that one day when
Speaker 3: I didn't sleep for three days.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think most people who have it have
Speaker 2: that day and then something goes very wrong and they
Speaker 2: just keep having a version of that day for a
Speaker 2: very long time. Sure, so I'm placing more gallons at
Speaker 2: A one. I'm not particularly worried about it. I do
Speaker 2: think it is pretty much a psychosomatic illness, but I
Speaker 2: do think it's a very interesting rabbit hole to go down.
Speaker 2: I hope there is more study towards it, because it
Speaker 2: does seem to be something that is hurting a lot
Speaker 2: of people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, like anything in life, twenty years
Speaker 3: in you find out some shit that everyone thought was
Speaker 3: bullshit is a thing. And so like you do a
Speaker 3: lot of people ato service. Maybe if it's like, well
Speaker 3: fuck it, let's wait twenty more years to give a shit,
Speaker 3: then now you're forty years out and it's like, oh,
Speaker 3: we should have started that twenty years ago.
Speaker 2: And that's one of my greatest fears, procrastinating. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: we're not going to procrastinate the end of this episode
Speaker 2: any longer at all. Right, well, I can cut its
Speaker 2: own until next time.
Speaker 3: Guys. I'm Chris Calari and I'm feeling a little bit
Speaker 3: of a.
Speaker 2: Niche and we'll see you next time, which is real
Speaker 2: Bye bye.
Speaker 3: Scared All the Time is co produced by Chris Calari
Speaker 3: and Edvacola, written by Chris Calari, edited by Edvacola. Additional
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