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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: This is Jim o'donald from Sun City, West Arizona, and

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I played Corna Bella golf course. This is Golf Smarter

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number ninety seventy.

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Speaker 1: I'm a third generation golf pro. Our son is a

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fourth generation golf bro. My grandpa was a greens keeper

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and he built courses and was a golf pro in

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the Atlanta area starting one hundred years ago. His son

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and daughter, my dad and my aunt were always in

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the golf industry. My dad's first name is Rell. He

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worked for McGregor and then his sister, my aunt Louise,

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is one of the Ladies' Hall of Famers. I got

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my first lesson drummer when I was eighteen. I was

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on the back nine with her, the first time I'd

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ever played with her. So I'm all excited. I'm having

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a great time. And she hits this drive out there

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and at the time, she is fifty five years old,

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so she's still playing in the LPGA tournament at this time,

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the LPGA Championship. About halfway through the back nine, her

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drive starts at the right son of the ferry like always,

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and it kind of falls to the right a little

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bit and it goes a couple of steps into the

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right rough in the cart, and ancess starts driving, and

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I said, oh, why you didn't like that drive, did you?

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And she stopped the cart and she took me right

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in the eye. She said, I don't know, Joel, I

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don't care. I said, well, I thought you've been hitting

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that little draw all day. I thought you wanted to

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draw back. She said, well, I do want to draw back, Jel.

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It's been drawn back all day. But that would just

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stayed a little to the right. But I can still

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get three or four from there, can't I, Joel, So

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that drive doesn't bother me in the least. That's the

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main difference between players like me and players like you, Joel.

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I enjoyed my good missus. Players like you y'all complain

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about your good missus. She said, Joel, this is the

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main thing I learned from Bobby Jones. All par golf is, Joel,

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is getting your drive out there somewhere where you can

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swing at it, getting the next one on or around

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the green, and then you get down in two shots

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from there. I do not have to make one perfect

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swing to shoot par golf.

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Speaker 3: It's time we learn how to appreciate our good missus

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with PGA Master Professional Joel Sucksist.

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Speaker 1: Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf

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minds to help you lower your score and raise your

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golf IQ.

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Speaker 3: Here's your host, Fred Green. Welcome to the Golf Smurter Podcast. Joel.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Fred, it's an honored to be here with you.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's great to have you on because I always

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like getting instructors on, and it's a treat to have

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a PGA Master teaching professional on. What's the difference between

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a master professional and a PGA certified Instructor's that's a

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very good question, and well to start off, that's pretty

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good for me.

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Speaker 1: I'm one for one indeed, indeed, and again I'm honored

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to be here because you have been doing it so long.

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I've checked out a few of them over the years.

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So it's like I said, it's nice to be one

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of your valued guest heres. So thank you. But there

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a lot of the confusion comes from the fact that

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people think the PGA Tour and the PJ of America

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are the same thing. Who are casual golfers. The PGA

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Tour are the two hundred famous guys that we see

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on TV every weekend, and we enjoy seeing them. But

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they're only about two hundred members of the PGA Tour.

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But the PGA of America has thirty thousand members, and

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I'm one of those thirty thousand, and we're the club pros.

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We're the fellas who run the shop at you know

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Hard Scrabble Country Club or you know Glenn Meadows golf

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Course down the road, un municipal golf course down the road.

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We're the fellows who run the shop there, who operate

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the business. So they are thirty thousand of us. Now,

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there are twenty four different types of PGA of America member,

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and so maybe a head pro to driving range is

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classified as an A two, whereas a head pro to

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golf course who's a PGA members classified as A one.

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I'm called an A six because I just give lessons

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all day long, every day since nineteen ninety two when

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I left Sea Island to go down to the Jacksonville,

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Prontavidre area. And then in two thousand, I had been

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a member for ten years and I had had some

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good success as a teaching pro, and I'd done a

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lot of studying to become a master professional, and so

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in two thousand I became a master professional. And that's

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just because I've done so much education and kind of

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a thesis, like a graduate level thesis, a big workbook.

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I presented and passed a oral test with some mucky

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MUCKs down in Florida, and so they called me a

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master professional. Since two thousand and they are about three

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hundred of us now I think in the United States

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that are master professionals, But about two hundred and fifty

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of those master professionals run courses. They're a head pro

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or a general manager at a country club or a

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public course or a resort. But only about one hundred

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of US master professionals tea each full time. Like me.

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I think they're only about one hundred of US or

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one hundred and twenty of US. Maybe I'm one of

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those hundred and one hundred and twenty mass professionals in

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the country who just teach. We don't run a course,

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you know, we don't manage the employees or run the

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tournaments or run the food and beverage. We just give

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lessons all day. And I've been doing that since nineteen

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ninety two. Like I said, when I left Seattle, so

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a mass professional just has a higher level of education,

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certification and accomplishment. And then among PJA Master professionals, there

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are only about one hundred of us who actually just

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teach all day, just give lessons. We don't run the shop.

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We're thankful for the guys who run the shop so

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we can have a beautiful goal for us. You are

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in a beautiful driving range and a beautiful resort to

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go to because of our fellow professionals, So that gives

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you a little lightly. I'm just one of the guys

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who just teaches all day and happens to also be

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a mass professional.

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Speaker 3: And do the master professionals also instruct PGA instructors.

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Speaker 1: That's a good question too, man. I appreciate that the

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I have done a few classes over the years. It's

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some of our chapter or section meetings because the guys

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knew of my reputation wanted me to do that. I've

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also taught classes at the Professional Golf Management Program at

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Ohio State University, where they train college age students who

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want to become PGA members, and I've enjoyed doing that

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about once a year for about eight years or so.

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I taught a class up there for the professional golf

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management students who are burgeoning PGA members. So yeah, so

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quite often we'll get called upon to tell the guys,

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you know, the things we've learned over the years.

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Speaker 3: Now you mentioned there's a one, A two, and you're

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in a six. Is there a three, four and five?

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, when I became a member in nineteen ninety, a

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PGA member in nineteen ninety, I was working at Sea

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Island at the time, and I think there were nine

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different class A card members, nine different types. A one

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was a head pro to golf course. A two is

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a head pro to driving range. A three was I

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think a tour player. A PGA tour player in fact

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is a three in fact okay, and so that's that.

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And then a four I think was like a past

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president of the association. A five was something else. So

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in nineteen ninety there were six or about nine classifications,

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you know, because you're doing different work, so they decided

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to kept different classifications. And then now that it's up

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to a twenty four. Oh so now see, if you

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work at Golf Galaxy, you can still be a PGA member.

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In the old days, if you weren't a head pro

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to golf course or driving range, green grass, and you

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went to work at Walmart and even if you sold

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golf equipment there, you couldn't be called a PGA member anymore.

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You left the golf industry in their mind. So they've

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done a lot of improvising in my lifetime where now

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you're up to a twenty four, and in fact, it's

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kind of cute. A twenty four is a PG member

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who cannot be classified as one of the first twenty

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three classifications, so he's just you know, you might be

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a golf course architect, you might be a college golf coach.

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You might be a club repair guy all day long. Again,

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you might work at an off course store, so all

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these possibilities. Now you can still be a PG member

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and do all these things that older people would say

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that's not the traditional golf pro at a golf course,

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But you can still be a PGA member now, and

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so it's been pretty interesting to watch. So, yeah, we're

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all the way up to a twenty four.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Is there a B level or is it just.

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Speaker 1: A that's a great question again, Fred, the B level

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of B, it doesn't go past B A B one.

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Let's say a B one is an associate and apprentice.

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So let's say you're you're they pro at Uh, what's Martin?

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Isn't that Martine where you live? Martin Martin and so

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and what's that. There's a nice club out there that's

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had some USGA championships.

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Speaker 3: The Olympic Club.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yeah, Harding Park. Let's say it's Olympic Club

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in fact that Yeah, So the head pro at Olympic Club,

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who's a PJ member, he has an assistant pro who's

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called an apprentice or an associate, and he's a he's

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actually becoming a member, right, he's going through his apprenticeship.

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He's learning, so he is called an associate. He would

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be called and let's say he works in the shop,

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he would be called a B one okay, and then

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when he gets his membership, he would be called if

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he stay, because if he becomes the head probably is

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called an A one. So B one is basically a

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PGA apprentice associate.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: They're learning with ropes and that goes from B one

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I think through BE twenty four. So if you're an

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assistant pro and you haven't gotten your membership yet, you're

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a B eight, you're bait because you're not quite a

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member yet, so you're b you're considered as an apprentice

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slavish associate.

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Speaker 3: So I guess as a podcaster, I'm like Z ten.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good question. I think there might be

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a classification.

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Speaker 3: There is one for media classification.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, executive. You could be a pg member in executive management,

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where the people who run like a local golf association,

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like the California Golf Association, you know, something like that,

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the people who run your amateur tournaments in San Francisco area.

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That a PGA member if he wanted to transition from

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being in the green grass world, he could run the

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local golf association in your city, and some of them

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do that. So yeah, and I bet you could be

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a broadcaster.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well maybe, but I do help at the first T. Indeed,

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I kind of coach at the first T and maybe

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I can get myself up from a Z to an X.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, I tell you I was at the playing ability

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test on Wednesday here locally. What is that nineteen eighteen

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men and one lady trying to become a PGA member

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in the sense that they were trying to pass the

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playing ability test and at three or four of them

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were over the age of fifty.

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Speaker 3: Good for us.

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Speaker 1: It's not always just the college age guys that are

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getting in the business.

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Speaker 3: Great, great, all right, So there's so much to talk

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about golf instruction. If that's what you're focused on doing

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every day, is instructing amateur golfers recreational golfers, then I'm

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going to want to get deep into that because I'm

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sure you see a lot of the same thing over

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and over and over again.

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 3: This is an audio podcast. You can't not here, Okay.

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Speaker 1: So you'd like to know what some of the same

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thing is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and we'll do that after this, yes, sir, after this,

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all right, Joel, let's get into it. Let's talk about

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golf instruction. This is really what it's all about here.

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And you know what people are doing when they walk

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in and how they've changed when they walk out. What

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do you see on a regular.

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Speaker 1: Basis, Well, what I have found over the years, Fred,

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believe it or not, is that you and I and

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the guy who shoots a hundred actually played just like Bryson.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, that's good to know.

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Speaker 1: And Tiger Woods, believe it or not. And what I

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mean that is we're all fighting the same battle. All

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of us have a personal bell curve, all right, I

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say our bell curve stands for PGA poor good average,

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all of us. All of us, sixty percent of our

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rounds are average. According to U. Tucker's statistician a lawyer

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or girl who's just majored in math in college. It's

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a fact everybody has sixty percent of their rounds begin

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average and twenty percent of their rounds being on the

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good side of their bell curve and twenty percent of

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their rounds being on the poor side of their bell curve.

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So I call that your personal PGA. Belkerk poor good

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average is what PGA stands for in this scenario. And

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what I've found is that there are three things that

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really determine where you fall in each and every round

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on your personal bell curve. Whether you are Tiger Bryson,

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Fred or Joel or missus Kerfluffle at.

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Speaker 3: The club, be nice to missus Kerfluffel.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, absolutely, mister A.

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Speaker 3: I mean, now I'm really intrigued here. Let's talk about

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what the commonality is because to always noticed, I've always

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kind of noticed that it's like any given day you

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can go ten strokes either direction, and I guess the

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lower you go that narrows down dramatically. The higher number

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you have on a regular basis that that could go

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beyond ten strokes. But yeah, any day.

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Speaker 1: Right, and that's what I'm saying. You go out, you

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don't know where you're going to fall that day on

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your PGA bell curve, but I guarantee it. You know,

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Bryson's personal bell curve is maybe let's say sixty five

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to the good, this poor would be seventy four, and

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his average would be sixty nine. But I'm going to

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say I have the same bell curve in the sense

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that it's sixty percent average, twenty percent good, twenty percent

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four mine. If I go out right now today, the

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way I'm playing this season, if I played poorly, I'd

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shoot on a normal course, normal weather, about eight eighty

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or eighty one is poor, and then my good would

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be like seventy, you know, seventy seventy one. My average

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would be seventy four, seventy five or seventy six, something

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like that, and it would be silly. But from some

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guys who are in my position, they go out and

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they shoot seventy five and they say I had a

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terrible day, when maybe if we really looked at the

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at God's video on their real scores on their personal

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PJ bell curve seventy five, maybe it might be to

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the good side of their belt curve. So I would

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say that PJ master pro who doesn't really honestly know

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himself is deceived, or he's arrogant or something. And so

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I like all students, whether they're a club pro that

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I teach, or a mini TOURU thare I teach, or

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a guy who's just starting out to understand. Look, you

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have a personal bell curve. Let's just try to get

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your belt curve to inch down like an inch worm

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and gradually get all three of those scores. You're poor,

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you're good on your average a little lower, you know,

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by just populating the good side of your bell curve

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a little more often, so that side of the bell

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curve fattens up a little bit. The poor side of

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the bell curve goes a little farther away now on

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your bell curve. And there are three things that I've

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found this is how we all play, just like Bryson

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and Tiger and Rory. There are three things I've found

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that really determine in each round were you're going to

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fall on your bell curve. So I can say those

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three things, pread.

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Speaker 3: Do you think please?

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Speaker 1: Okay, there are three things that create big holes at

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any level of play. When I first start teaching down

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full time down in Jacksonville pant of Bedre area, these

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guys be hitting a grate on the video, I'm thinking, man,

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this guy's hitting it great. You know, he shoots ninety

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ninety five and he's hitting a grate warming up. And

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I get him on my eight star video and said, wow,

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you know, mister Jones, that looks fantastic. You're hitting it

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great the less he's his goal. I love your lessons.

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I am hitting great, joy I said, yeah, mister joneson

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I'm hitting it better than me. I mean, what are

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you shooting? He says, Oh, Joe, I'm still shooting about

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ninety I'm still shoot about forty five in my nine

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hole league, you know, But I mean, I love your lessons,

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jo All, I'm hitting it great, and so I'm he

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and I are excited. Glad he likes the lessons. Glad

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he's hitting it better. But it confounded me. It's like,

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why are these people, some of them hitting it better

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than me, and they're shooting ninety and I'm shooting low

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to mid seventies. And so I started doing a lot

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more playing lessons at the Beautiful Horses down in that

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area in Jacksonville in front of your driven What I

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found out, this is how I found it out. They

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have six or seven holes that he says, Oh, man,

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I'm having six or seven holes like a tour player. Baby,

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I'm about even one, two, three over, man, I'm going.

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And then I have two or three holes like a

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blind man. You know, I make a trip on a

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double on a double and I shoot my forty five.

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Speaker 3: You know what I like to call that?

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Speaker 1: What's that friend?

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Speaker 3: Ray Ray Golf? Yeah, sometimes I play like Ray Floyd.

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Sometimes at play like Ray Charles.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sure you've heard this lament before. Oh this

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is thirty years ago, and I'm really confounded. So I

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started doing a lot more playing lessons, and this is

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what I found those big holes. They have a drive

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out of play, they missagreeing with a pitch, or they

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three five or do they do all of them my

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moth and but on the other holes. So that's why

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they play six holes one over and three holes eight over,

348
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which equals nine over for nine holes. And I'm like man,

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and so I started quantifying this thirty thirty five years ago,

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and I've been quantifying it ever since. And I've constantly

351
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whittled down the kind of stats I keep depending on

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the level of the person and the level of what

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I'm learning, as I continue to teach every day and

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try to be humble and and open minded just at

355
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whatever facts the student and I are learning about their

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game and what I'm learning about golf in general. And

357
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it's really a lot of fun to show that to people,

358
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to say, yeah, you and Tiger played just the same game.

359
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You're fighting the same battle. I could show you all

360
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kinds of tour player scorecards because I had to find

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stats a lot different than pretty much everybody else in

362
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the industry. And I can show you how Bryson he

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didn't I called these three things bozo shots, by the way,

364
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so I could show you how Bryson did not have

365
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a bozo shot at the US Open this year until

366
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the sixteenth old of the third round on Saturday. He

367
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missed the green of the pitch, and then he pitched

368
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on a two buttted cru his double. But he up

369
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until then, he had not hit a drive out of play,

370
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He had not had a three butt on those crazy

371
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Pinehurst greens, and he had not missed a pitch green

372
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with a pitch on those crazy greens where guys are

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missing pitches all day long. Bryson was a bad man

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that weekend four days, and a big part of it,

375
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I'm telling you. The reasoning won is the same reason

376
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a guy will shoot ninety four and have his best ever,

377
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all right, is because he had fewer bozo shots than

378
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he normally does. And that's why that ninety four shooter

379
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got to the good side of his bell curve. Bryson

380
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,039
got to the good side of his bell curve, just

381
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like the ninety four shooter. Bryson did it at Pinehurst

382
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during the US Open that weekend, and he wins by

383
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a stroke. You know, so I can figure and where

384
00:20:31,079 --> 00:20:33,359
the stats would be the same. The traditional stats or

385
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:35,440
even some of the more modern stats that are being kept,

386
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would say all these two guys played the same like

387
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Bryce in that weekend. It strokes game was twenty third

388
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:45,400
in the field. So but in the way I keep,

389
00:20:45,519 --> 00:20:48,680
the way I describe the reality, he only had one

390
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,079
zero bozo shots the first day, zero bozo shots, the

391
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second day, one bozo shot. The third day. He had

392
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five boso shots the last round, but was still able

393
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to win by one.

394
00:21:00,039 --> 00:21:02,359
Speaker 3: Because he had that miracle shot on the from the

395
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:03,559
bunker on eighteen right.

396
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,039
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yep, he had his drive out of play there

397
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:08,119
on eighteen. That was one of his three drives out

398
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,319
of play that day, but he hacked it out off

399
00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,240
the route up around the green and then got up

400
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,680
and down beautifully historically, So those are the three things

401
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:20,240
they're really for even Bryson Tiger, Rory Joel Fred and

402
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,440
mister and missus Kirk Fluffel at the club, those are

403
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,720
the three things that really dictate where you're going to

404
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:31,839
be that particular day on your personal unique Dja Belker Wow.

405
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Speaker 3: So I would look at it as you know, the

406
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,000
guy he has a great swing, it's working well, but

407
00:21:38,079 --> 00:21:40,039
he's not working on a short game. He's just working

408
00:21:40,079 --> 00:21:43,000
on the full swing, and he doesn't have the feel

409
00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:48,039
or the touch to like what may be the hardest

410
00:21:48,039 --> 00:21:51,319
shot in golf actually is like thirty yards out right

411
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:52,440
to the flag.

412
00:21:53,799 --> 00:21:57,359
Speaker 1: Exactly. There's so so that's the negative part of those

413
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,400
three shots. The bad thing when all of us do

414
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,160
it is and I can show that tour players do it,

415
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,400
you know, and I've kept track of that over the

416
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:10,519
years on certain famous twil player rounds. And you know,

417
00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:13,119
a drive out of play missing a green with a pitch,

418
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,160
which I call a three pitch quote unquote, just to

419
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,319
make it sound nice and derogatory like a three putt.

420
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,839
So a drive out to play a dupe a three

421
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,440
pitch and a three putt. So the converse of that

422
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,440
is when we do get the drive in play, when

423
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we do get the pitch on the green, and when

424
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we do two putt. So the beautiful skill there that

425
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,680
the best players have gotten better at than the rest

426
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,160
of us is being able to get a drive in play,

427
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,759
being able to get a pitch on the green, and

428
00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:46,839
being able to hit your first put the perfect distance

429
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,400
so that your second putt is a short putt, you know,

430
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,880
a little tapping right right. And that's what we need

431
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:57,640
to get good at. We need to get learn how

432
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,960
to get good drive and play, how to get a

433
00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:01,720
pitch on the green, and how to get that first

434
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:02,559
butt the perfect.

435
00:23:02,279 --> 00:23:12,759
Speaker 3: Distance for a golfer. To understand your concept of PGA poor,

436
00:23:12,799 --> 00:23:16,759
good and average in relation to their scores, and they're

437
00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:20,000
what they generally shoot. I would think that once you

438
00:23:20,279 --> 00:23:29,039
understand that, the mental game changes dramatically, right, because when

439
00:23:29,079 --> 00:23:32,240
you are having those three holes where you're eight over,

440
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:38,640
you're beating yourself up pretty good and will probably impact

441
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,240
the rest of your round.

442
00:23:41,799 --> 00:23:46,519
Speaker 1: Exactly. Oh okay, absolutely and so and that's why a

443
00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:50,319
big thing with my teaching I call my teaching golf success,

444
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,240
because I really want everybody to learn what they're doing right,

445
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even more so than what they're doing wrong. And so

446
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I spent a lot of time teaching my students, this

447
00:23:59,279 --> 00:24:01,519
is what you're doing, This is what you're doing right.

448
00:24:02,039 --> 00:24:05,400
It's like a lawn, you know, if you get if

449
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,359
you've got, don't come help me with my lawn. I

450
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:08,960
got a weed problem, I say, well, really, you don't

451
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,319
have a weed problem, you have a grass problem. If

452
00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:14,640
you've got more grass, like a golf fairway, you get

453
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,000
all this grass, there's just no room for the weeds.

454
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,200
So I want to help you learn how to get

455
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,440
that drive in play. Let's get the good stuff going.

456
00:24:21,519 --> 00:24:24,119
What are you doing right on those drives you get

457
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,400
in play? What are you doing right on those pitches

458
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,519
where you hit the green. What are you doing right

459
00:24:30,799 --> 00:24:34,119
on those putts where you've hit the first put the

460
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,759
perfect distance. So absolutely, you've got to learn what you're

461
00:24:37,759 --> 00:24:41,000
doing right, I feel, and let's make that grow and

462
00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:42,960
blossom and then there just won't be any room for

463
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:43,839
the weeds.

464
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Speaker 2: Right.

465
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Speaker 3: And And do you spend time, especially in teaching lessons,

466
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do you work with a person on their mental approach

467
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:59,720
and how they're keep them from beating themselves up getting

468
00:24:59,759 --> 00:25:01,680
in the her own way? As Joe parent would.

469
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Speaker 1: Say, Yeah, indeed, indeed, And what I'd do absolutely, I'll

470
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tell people the story I first got this, a beautifully

471
00:25:10,839 --> 00:25:13,400
learned lesson on this when I was eighteen years of age.

472
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I had just turned eighteen. I was away from my

473
00:25:16,759 --> 00:25:20,960
golf side of the family. I'm a third generation golf pro.

474
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Our son is a fourth generation golf pro.

475
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Speaker 2: Wow.

476
00:25:24,279 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 1: My grandpa was a greens keeper and he built courses

477
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,119
and was a golf pro in the Atlanta area starting

478
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,839
one hundred years ago. His son and daughter, my dad

479
00:25:32,839 --> 00:25:35,519
and my aunt were always in the golf industry. My

480
00:25:35,599 --> 00:25:38,200
dad's first name is Rell. He passed away about thirty

481
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,079
years ago. He worked for McGregor from nineteen forty eight

482
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,720
to nineteen seventy four, and then his sister. My Aunt

483
00:25:44,799 --> 00:25:47,279
Louise is one of the Ladies Hall of Famers, one

484
00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:50,119
of the founders, and she there were only three ladies

485
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:52,640
who won more tournaments than my Aunt Louise on the

486
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,559
latest tour, and I was playing with her. I got

487
00:25:55,599 --> 00:25:58,000
my first lesson from her when I was eighteen down

488
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,480
at Saffaire Valley, North Carolina. I was on the nine

489
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,160
with her, the first time I'd ever played with her.

490
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,720
So I'm all excited. I'm having a great time. And

491
00:26:06,079 --> 00:26:08,079
she hits this drive out there and at the time

492
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:15,480
nineteen seventy eight, so she is fifty five years old,

493
00:26:15,519 --> 00:26:17,640
so she's still playing in the LPGA tournament at this time,

494
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,880
the LPGA Championship. She could still play pretty well at

495
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,839
age fifty five. About halfway through the back nine, her

496
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,440
drive starts at the right center of the ferry like always,

497
00:26:27,279 --> 00:26:28,960
and it kind of falls to the right a little

498
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,000
bit and it goes a couple of steps into the

499
00:26:31,079 --> 00:26:34,759
right rough and so we hop in the cart and

500
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,279
recoll her Aunt Sis in our family, and ant Sis

501
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,720
starts driving and I said to her, I said, oh, wow,

502
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,039
an Sis, you didn't like that drive, did you? And

503
00:26:42,079 --> 00:26:45,519
she stopped the cart and she looked at me, looked

504
00:26:45,519 --> 00:26:48,359
me right in the eye. She said, I said, well,

505
00:26:48,759 --> 00:26:52,079
what's wrong with that drive? Why did she goes? I

506
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,519
don't know, Joean, I don't care. I said, well, I

507
00:26:55,559 --> 00:26:57,319
thought you've been hitting that little draw all day. I

508
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,039
thought you wanted to draw back. She said, well I did.

509
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:00,880
I do want to draw back. Jel's been drawn back

510
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,920
all day, but that one just stayed a little to

511
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,319
the right. But I can still get three or four

512
00:27:05,319 --> 00:27:10,200
from there, can't I, Joel? And I said yes, ma'am, yeah, yeah,

513
00:27:10,279 --> 00:27:13,839
And she said, Joel, So that drive doesn't bother me

514
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,839
in the least. She said, Joel, that's the main difference

515
00:27:17,839 --> 00:27:21,519
between players like me and players like you, Joel. At

516
00:27:21,519 --> 00:27:23,039
this time, I was about a seven handicap. I was

517
00:27:23,079 --> 00:27:26,960
eighteen years old, break eady on a good day, she says, Joel,

518
00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:33,000
I enjoy my goodnesses. Players like you y'all complain about

519
00:27:33,039 --> 00:27:37,440
your good misses. She said, Joel, this is the main

520
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,079
thing I learned from Bobby Jones in Atlanta, playing with

521
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,920
him all the time at East Lake and other places.

522
00:27:43,599 --> 00:27:47,839
Old Man Parr Joel all par golf is Joel is

523
00:27:47,839 --> 00:27:49,880
getting your drive out there somewhere where you can swing

524
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,279
at it, getting the next one ho or around the green,

525
00:27:54,519 --> 00:27:58,200
and then you get down in two shots from there, Joel,

526
00:27:58,599 --> 00:28:01,880
I do not have to make one swing to shoot

527
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:09,359
for golf, I said, Okay. Then she started driving the

528
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:14,000
card again, and so, Fred, I've been trying to essentially

529
00:28:14,039 --> 00:28:16,599
learn the relevance of that lesson I learned that day

530
00:28:16,599 --> 00:28:18,440
when I was eighteen years of age at South Valley,

531
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,920
North Carolina, from my Hall of Fame aunt that. Of course,

532
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,880
my logical reaction is, well, why am I trying to

533
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:29,839
make my swing perfect? If I'm shooting around eighty, there

534
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,440
must be something I'm missing. She's the LPGA Hall of Famer.

535
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,319
I'm the eighteen year old seven handicap. I don't understand

536
00:28:36,319 --> 00:28:40,359
what she's saying, but I think I should probably seek

537
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,599
to understand it because it works for her and Bobby Jones.

538
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:48,079
So yeah, it's a totally different paradigm in terms of

539
00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:49,839
the mental game of Fred, which is why I like

540
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,559
golf smarter, you know, And I tuned into your podcast

541
00:28:52,599 --> 00:28:54,359
off and on over the years, the last ten, fifteen

542
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,519
years or twenty years you've done. So it's like I

543
00:28:57,599 --> 00:29:00,920
like golf smarter and harder both. And so that's the

544
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,119
mindset of a Hall of Fame player Bobby Jones, Louise

545
00:29:05,119 --> 00:29:08,440
Suggs and others. So yeah, I work on it in

546
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,720
the lessons tremendously with people to help them enjoy their

547
00:29:11,759 --> 00:29:16,359
good misses. Be like the Hall of Famer. Enjoy your

548
00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:19,880
good misses. Don't be like the other ninety shooters you

549
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,160
play with. And when the ninety shooter hits it a

550
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,119
little thin out into the two steps into the right

551
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,240
rough about one ninety or two hundred, and he gripes

552
00:29:29,279 --> 00:29:33,039
about it, don't you be like him? Just shake your

553
00:29:33,039 --> 00:29:35,880
head and think the Hall of Famers would enjoy that

554
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,039
good miss. The ninety guys who are staying ninety shooters

555
00:29:40,079 --> 00:29:43,160
for ten, twenty, thirty, forty fifty years, they're gonna cripe

556
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,160
about that good miss and they're not going to improve.

557
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 4: Wow, that's an amazing lesson because there is no perfect

558
00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:00,119
in golf, and striving for perfection is just like and

559
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,200
yourself over the head with a bat.

560
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just you're not going to get there.

561
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,559
You have to accept what it gives you, right, And

562
00:30:09,599 --> 00:30:12,440
that's why we keep going out. I mean, so many people.

563
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,319
They'll go to the driving range for the first time,

564
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,960
or they're with a friend, or they're doing something and

565
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,079
they get one swing it all and that's all it takes, right,

566
00:30:22,119 --> 00:30:25,839
It's just one swing where it works, and you go, oh,

567
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,200
I love this game and you're and then it's a

568
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,039
constant search for the rest of your life to do

569
00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:35,759
it again. And even if you do it, you're like, Okay,

570
00:30:35,759 --> 00:30:38,599
I want to do it again. Guy once said to me,

571
00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:40,640
you know I want for Christmas this year, and I said,

572
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,680
what's that and he said, two good swings in a row.

573
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: Yeah right, Yeah, So I still think it's fun to

574
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,839
strive for that perfection. Oh sure, And of course we

575
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,559
all agree that. You know, I don't want to try

576
00:30:53,599 --> 00:30:58,160
to hit it bad, you know, but what ansists taught

577
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,640
me that day, and again, like I said, this created her.

578
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,480
It was a big part of creating her Hall of

579
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,240
Fame career. And she learned it from Bobby Jones, which

580
00:31:04,279 --> 00:31:06,440
helped it. You know, he got a lot more chilled

581
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,559
out on his missus and that helped him start winning majors.

582
00:31:10,079 --> 00:31:14,039
Was to still keep trying for perfection, but understand golf,

583
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,400
real golf well enough to understand what is golf success

584
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,680
for each of the five shots in golf and then

585
00:31:21,759 --> 00:31:24,359
accept it and say, sweet, I can play par golf

586
00:31:24,359 --> 00:31:28,200
with that, maybe if I missed it well enough and

587
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,480
to be able to recognize that, to be hip enough

588
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,839
to your own self, your own golf game and golf

589
00:31:33,839 --> 00:31:37,359
in general, to say, sweet, can I give you a

590
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:38,359
couple examples of that?

591
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:39,279
Speaker 3: Please?

592
00:31:40,119 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: So in my newly published book here that you said

593
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:44,880
I could mention.

594
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 3: Here, please do and tell us the title It's.

595
00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:52,079
Speaker 1: A golf success before every round, and Fred, you can

596
00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:53,640
see here. Since you and I are on video and

597
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,319
most everybody else is on audio, they won't see it, obviously.

598
00:31:56,319 --> 00:31:58,640
But there's a three colored chart there at the back

599
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,680
of the book that everyone who's read the book has said,

600
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,039
this is so helpful, Joel, that the yellow is what

601
00:32:05,079 --> 00:32:08,559
the shot actually did. In the middle column there what

602
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:12,480
the ball actually did. The green is the golf success

603
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:17,799
that the Hall of Famer's mindset their reaction to that shot.

604
00:32:18,079 --> 00:32:20,640
The red is the average guy's reaction to the shot.

605
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,440
All right, So, and I like to say, they're only

606
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:30,359
five shots in golf, essentially, drive, approach, pitch, chip put,

607
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:36,519
so a drive it goes in. Here's the ball result, Fred,

608
00:32:36,599 --> 00:32:38,720
So this is the yellow column. On this particular example,

609
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,440
he goes into the edge of the left of two

610
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:45,000
hundred and twenty yard from the tee. The average guy

611
00:32:46,359 --> 00:32:50,279
in his old golf paradigm. He says, Man, I'm mad.

612
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:51,799
I should have been in a fair way at two

613
00:32:51,839 --> 00:32:57,119
hunred and forty and fifty yards. But in the fellow's

614
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,759
new golf paradigm. If he reads my book, you know

615
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,880
many of my students have adopted this paradigm. Not all

616
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,079
of them have. Ah, life is real, right, But the

617
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,599
guys who are improving the most, of the girls whore

618
00:33:08,599 --> 00:33:10,799
improving the most, the juniors I teacher improved most have

619
00:33:10,839 --> 00:33:14,960
adopted this new golf paradigm. Now, the same ball result,

620
00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:17,000
it's in the edge of the left roof two hundred

621
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,839
and twenty yards from the team. Now in the new

622
00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:23,240
golf paradigm. Instead of being mad, that should have been

623
00:33:23,279 --> 00:33:26,519
two fifteen, here's the new golf paradigm. Sweet, I have

624
00:33:26,559 --> 00:33:31,519
another drive in play. I know I hit it on

625
00:33:31,559 --> 00:33:33,079
the heel a little bit and gotten the left ruff

626
00:33:33,079 --> 00:33:35,880
a little bit. That's a fact. It's also a fact, baby,

627
00:33:36,279 --> 00:33:39,559
this is a drive in play, and it is not

628
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,359
gonna tend to put me towards the poor side of

629
00:33:42,359 --> 00:33:51,519
my bell crew. Sweet baby, I got another drive in play.

630
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,079
Speaker 3: Just because you're not on the in the fairway doesn't

631
00:33:55,119 --> 00:33:57,720
mean you're not in play, right, I've got a ball

632
00:33:57,759 --> 00:34:02,319
in play. I didn't lose it. It's not underwater. I'm

633
00:34:02,359 --> 00:34:07,039
just I'm just enamored with learned to enjoy the good misses.

634
00:34:08,519 --> 00:34:14,199
Speaker 1: It'll help you create a Hall of Fame career maybe, yeah, yeah.

635
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:15,800
And so driving play people ask me what do you

636
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,920
mean by driving place? And it's pretty much what you

637
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,519
said there, Fred. Basically, like my aunt said, I can

638
00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:22,599
swing at it. I don't have to bend it around

639
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:24,840
trees or slice it or hook it around or over trees,

640
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,400
or take a company shot that drives in play. You know,

641
00:34:28,599 --> 00:34:32,039
if left rough, Joan Carner told me forty years ago,

642
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:34,760
because I've got to know some of those other Hall

643
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,119
of famers that my aunt has befriended over the last

644
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,480
sixty seventy years. And Ms Carner told me a long

645
00:34:40,519 --> 00:34:42,800
time ago. She said, lay up so I can have

646
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,280
a forearn from the fairway. Oh way, I'd rather have

647
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:47,840
an eight or nine iron from the rough. Than a

648
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,079
forearm from the fairway all day long, you know. And

649
00:34:51,079 --> 00:34:54,239
missus Carner understands this. She's breaking her age now in

650
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:55,320
major championships.

651
00:34:56,039 --> 00:34:56,519
Speaker 3: Amazing.

652
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,679
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's a drive and play is you have

653
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,159
a swing at it and you don't have to bend

654
00:35:04,159 --> 00:35:06,039
it or hooked it around trees. If you have to

655
00:35:06,079 --> 00:35:08,000
bend or hooked around trees or take a puny shop

656
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:10,599
or go under some limbs, you have to change your

657
00:35:10,599 --> 00:35:14,760
approach shot, then that drives out of play right right.

658
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,079
Speaker 3: And with those out of play, what we like to

659
00:35:18,119 --> 00:35:21,119
say here is never follow a bad shot with a

660
00:35:21,159 --> 00:35:22,239
stupid shot.

661
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: Exactly right exactly.

662
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,519
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, well, you know, yeah, I'm in the trees,

663
00:35:28,559 --> 00:35:31,599
but I can see the flag from here. No no, no, no, no, no,

664
00:35:32,159 --> 00:35:35,519
you're looking at double bogie. Easy, Just put it back

665
00:35:35,559 --> 00:35:38,159
in the fairway, go for the bogie and be happy,

666
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:43,360
right yep, or as your aunt would say, no, no,

667
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,880
it's a good mess. We can we can still part

668
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:46,320
of the hole.

669
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:53,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's uh. I'll tell you another example. Another

670
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:55,800
way I teach this to people. I have people play

671
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,280
a scramble, either two or three or four players. Just

672
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,039
played one Aaron Woods here a few weeks ago to

673
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,559
historic public course here in Cincinnati where a lot of

674
00:36:04,559 --> 00:36:07,679
the McGregor guys played back in thirties, forty fifties and sixties,

675
00:36:07,679 --> 00:36:11,320
when they'd come into the McGregor factory on Spring Grove Avenue,

676
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,000
a few minutes away from Shearon Woods. And it was

677
00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:17,280
very interesting. Fred, I could show you this, you know,

678
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,559
if we had the little charts, I could show you.

679
00:36:20,159 --> 00:36:23,760
It's amazing. Those guys' full swings. We used about as

680
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,239
many as these guys full swings as we used of mine.

681
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,400
And we actually used about the same number of their

682
00:36:29,519 --> 00:36:32,639
short game shots as we used of mine. All right,

683
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:37,199
and these guys are ten to fourteen handicaps. And so

684
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,280
I asked each of them afterwards when I showed them

685
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,480
the chart that I kept unbeknownst to them. I didn't

686
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,239
want them to be self conscious about it that I

687
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,639
was keeping this, but I showed them. I said, look,

688
00:36:46,199 --> 00:36:48,199
why is it that your good shots are just as

689
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:50,559
good as mine? But you guys shoot eighty to one

690
00:36:50,639 --> 00:36:56,000
hundred and I shoot seventy to eighty. And these guys

691
00:36:56,039 --> 00:36:58,039
are pretty smart. They're all students of mine. A couple

692
00:36:58,119 --> 00:36:59,639
of them picked up on a pretty guick. They said,

693
00:36:59,679 --> 00:37:02,599
Oh it's my when I hit it poorly, my misses

694
00:37:02,599 --> 00:37:06,360
are not as good as yours, jal I said, exactly.

695
00:37:07,119 --> 00:37:09,360
And you're you're not going to improve in golf as

696
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,400
quickly as you could and as enjoyably as you could

697
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,320
if you don't start enjoying your good misses. That's the key.

698
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,480
Such a huge aspect of what my aunt taught me

699
00:37:18,559 --> 00:37:22,280
that day forty six years ago, and what the good

700
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,239
players have learned. They enjoy their good misses rather than

701
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,280
griping about them.

702
00:37:27,679 --> 00:37:33,199
Speaker 3: Attitude, it's about your attitude, right, and attention and attention.

703
00:37:33,519 --> 00:37:36,079
Like you, you in a place that you're not comfortable with,

704
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,000
you're going to add tension to you, to your shoulders,

705
00:37:39,039 --> 00:37:41,119
to your neck, to your arms, to your body, to

706
00:37:41,159 --> 00:37:45,039
your swing right, and just if you just can breathe

707
00:37:45,079 --> 00:37:48,559
through it, relax and just you know, accept what happened

708
00:37:48,559 --> 00:37:52,480
and move forward, you can shoot lower scores. Indeed, and

709
00:37:52,559 --> 00:37:56,000
I think I think that's what's I've tried to accomplish

710
00:37:56,039 --> 00:37:59,719
all along in doing this podcast is getting advice from

711
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,159
people like you and getting insights that really helped me go, Okay,

712
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,760
I'm good here, and I've been able to you know,

713
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,119
bring my index down and have more fun playing.

714
00:38:12,079 --> 00:38:16,559
Speaker 1: Indeed, and again that's that's absolutely a huge part of

715
00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:19,480
the middle game. And I say, it's not, you know,

716
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,639
blowing smoke up somebody's fanny. You're trying to just put

717
00:38:21,679 --> 00:38:24,880
on rose colored glasses or the power positive thinking. I say, no,

718
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,800
this is based on facts. I have thousands of scorecards

719
00:38:29,199 --> 00:38:32,639
that I started keeping thirty and forty years ago that

720
00:38:32,639 --> 00:38:36,440
where I was trying to determine what causes me to

721
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,039
have a good score, what causes me to have a

722
00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:40,360
bad score. And then when I started teaching in nineteen

723
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,119
eighty seven and then full time in ninety two, I

724
00:38:43,199 --> 00:38:47,239
kept keeping scorecards. Facts. These are facts. It's true, it's

725
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,920
mental game, but it's not just blowing smoke up each

726
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,800
other's vand and you're trying to stay positive and all

727
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,599
this stuff. You know, it's hey, man, if that drives

728
00:38:54,599 --> 00:38:56,519
in the right rough, it really is not going to

729
00:38:57,079 --> 00:39:00,480
hurt your score unless you mentally, like you're alluding to threat,

730
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,840
you mentally allow it to start cranking your angstuff and

731
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,800
you get all gripe because you didn't make a perfect swing.

732
00:39:07,639 --> 00:39:09,800
When the Hall of Famer would tell you, I don't

733
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,679
need one perfect swing to shoot far.

734
00:39:14,679 --> 00:39:18,199
Speaker 3: Wow. That is a lesson that we all need to

735
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,320
walk away with. You had mentioned in an email to

736
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,440
me as we communicated back and forth setting this up,

737
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,519
that you said that ninety nine point nine percent of

738
00:39:26,519 --> 00:39:30,760
golfers don't really know that they have the solution. What

739
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,599
does that means?

740
00:39:33,039 --> 00:39:37,360
Speaker 1: Thank you for asking. It's because they have the solution

741
00:39:37,519 --> 00:39:42,679
right there in their game itself. I say, you know

742
00:39:43,119 --> 00:39:46,679
a great educator on the near West side of Chicago,

743
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,480
in the poverty stricken there in the near West side

744
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,400
of Chicago where I live in Chicago, in nineteen tenth grade,

745
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,760
in the bad neighborhoods, that she was known as a

746
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,679
great educator. She helped a lot of kids get out

747
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,119
of poverty. She said, my job is to draw it

748
00:39:59,119 --> 00:40:04,079
out of the students. I think it's in there. It's

749
00:40:04,119 --> 00:40:07,519
not to pour stuff into them foreign to them. I

750
00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:10,039
just need to help them find it. The student and

751
00:40:10,079 --> 00:40:13,920
I together are working to find what's in them that

752
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,719
that's good, that's workable and passable. Let's draw it out

753
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:22,840
and let's make that blossom. So players keep a scorecard,

754
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,920
is what I'm saying. And if they keep a simple

755
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,639
three line scorecard, I can show you this is mine

756
00:40:30,599 --> 00:40:34,039
right there from this morning. You know, I keep the

757
00:40:34,079 --> 00:40:37,119
simple three line scorecard there of my score and then

758
00:40:37,159 --> 00:40:42,440
three pitch and three putt and do and just just

759
00:40:42,519 --> 00:40:43,800
mark it down, total it up at the end of

760
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,000
the day. That particular round, I shot three over, and

761
00:40:47,039 --> 00:40:48,719
I didn't have any three pitches and I didn't have

762
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,559
any three putts or any drives out of put So

763
00:40:50,599 --> 00:40:52,760
I shot three over, which is, you know, about one

764
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:54,599
or two above my average for ninemals.

765
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 3: Okay, so that's on the good that's on the average.

766
00:40:58,679 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, average side of jewels average part of Joel's PJA

767
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,760
Bell curve. And so so I'm saying every player has

768
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,320
that because they're shooting the scores. If they would only

769
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,519
keep that and then total it up at the end

770
00:41:11,519 --> 00:41:15,639
and say, oh man, I shot forty one, that's about

771
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,400
average for me, but I had two Boso shots. Without those,

772
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,280
I just shot thirty nine. Then I'd be on the

773
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,960
good side of my bell curve. So I shot thirty

774
00:41:24,039 --> 00:41:26,960
nine good enough shots today that were good enough to

775
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,119
shoot thirty nine. I just had two bozo shots that

776
00:41:30,199 --> 00:41:32,840
randed up to forty one. So if you had a

777
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:34,960
baseball game where the score was thirty nine to two,

778
00:41:36,599 --> 00:41:39,400
you would say that one team creamed the other team. Right,

779
00:41:40,199 --> 00:41:41,840
you had a football game where the score was thirty

780
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,800
nine to two, you'd say, oh, they creamed them. And

781
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,440
that's how I'd want you to look at that. See, man,

782
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,519
I had thirty nine good enough shots today. To shoot

783
00:41:49,519 --> 00:41:50,920
thirty nine, I'd be on the good side of my

784
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,639
bell curve. The two extra boso shots. He's ran up

785
00:41:53,639 --> 00:41:56,639
to forty one. I'm getting so good. I'm gaining on it.

786
00:41:57,599 --> 00:41:59,719
My bell curve is getting the lower gradually.

787
00:42:00,119 --> 00:42:03,639
Speaker 3: So that's what everybody is gradual, right, I mean they

788
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,800
moving the bell curve. Has got to be gradual and

789
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,360
don't have too high expectations and definitely don't think, okay,

790
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,960
so if I shot throughout a number eighty five last

791
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,440
week this week, I can definitely shoot in eighty four.

792
00:42:17,679 --> 00:42:19,719
Don't do that to yourself, right.

793
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:23,840
Speaker 1: Exactly. So that's why I say every golfer has it

794
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,559
in them right there in their round. If they would

795
00:42:27,639 --> 00:42:30,320
keep this simple scorecard and so and then if a student,

796
00:42:30,519 --> 00:42:32,400
if and when a student starts doing that with me

797
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,039
and they start putting it on a simple spreadsheet, I

798
00:42:36,119 --> 00:42:40,880
call that their golf mirror. You know, Fred, You know,

799
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:42,840
you and I we were cool when we were kids

800
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,000
because we had hair down to hear baby, yes, yes,

801
00:42:46,079 --> 00:42:47,960
down to the middle of our chest. We were cool

802
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,559
as can be baby, in the sixties and seventies. But

803
00:42:50,599 --> 00:42:52,440
I'm not surprised when I look in the mirror right

804
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:53,719
now and I find out that I don't have the

805
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,559
longest hair in class anymore, you know. I mean, because

806
00:42:57,559 --> 00:43:00,360
I've been looking at the mirror every day the last

807
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:04,239
fifty sixty years. But golfers get surprised when they shoot

808
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,800
the different scores because they're not looking in their own

809
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:10,920
personal mirror and they're frustrating stuff. And I say, hey, baby,

810
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,400
don't be surprised if you shoot eighty six, if that's

811
00:43:13,679 --> 00:43:16,599
you know, come on, get real, you know, like I'm saying,

812
00:43:16,639 --> 00:43:19,480
I'm the PJA master teacher, big chie schmuck o here.

813
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,599
But man, if I shoot seventy four or five, I

814
00:43:21,639 --> 00:43:24,800
gotta admit that that's about average for me, you know.

815
00:43:25,559 --> 00:43:27,000
And if I said, oh, that's a terrible day, I

816
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:31,400
should shoot sixty eight, then I'm either deceived or I'm

817
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,719
just really arrogant and deceitful to what I'm saying to

818
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,920
other people, and we want to be real and honest

819
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,519
and have fun and be into it for the intrinsic

820
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,519
nature of golf and an enjoyment of the self satisfaction

821
00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:49,000
of I'm getting better myself. I love the challenge. There's

822
00:43:49,039 --> 00:43:51,800
no defense in golf. I'm not playing Fred. He does

823
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,400
not block my shot on the fourth hold and run

824
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,800
up to it and block my shot. You know, we're

825
00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,760
playing ourself in the course. So I call that the

826
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,920
golf mirror. And I've seen people improve ten to fifteen

827
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,599
twenty shots in a year on their golf mirror without

828
00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:09,039
having to do a lot of work on their full

829
00:44:09,039 --> 00:44:13,519
swing quite often because quite often their mistake is a

830
00:44:13,639 --> 00:44:16,559
three pitch or a three put that's really run their

831
00:44:16,559 --> 00:44:19,400
score up. And getting a drive and play isn't that

832
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,679
hard for people once they get interested in it, like

833
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,960
you said, give their attention to it.

834
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 3: It's one of my favorite parts about golf is that

835
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,760
it's an individual game that you play in a group.

836
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,199
Speaker 1: That's a good way to put it. I've never put that.

837
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,199
Speaker 3: Think it really is. You're in your own world, you're

838
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,679
doing your own thing, but you're socializing at the same time.

839
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,920
But you know, and it's not a team effort, although

840
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,599
you know, you talk about Bryson and his bell curve

841
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,039
and he's I don't know if you've noticed what he's

842
00:44:54,079 --> 00:44:59,400
been doing on YouTube lately, but this break fifty, which

843
00:45:00,159 --> 00:45:04,280
I absolutely love the concept of it. Right, And and

844
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,239
a friend of mine who I play with regularly, and

845
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,199
we're very evenly matched, and we're always like, how many

846
00:45:10,199 --> 00:45:12,079
strokes you give me? It's like, why am I giving

847
00:45:12,079 --> 00:45:14,880
you strokes? You belong to this country club and I'm

848
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,000
coming here, so you have an advantage, and it's a

849
00:45:17,039 --> 00:45:20,239
two stroke different way. Let's just you know, So I

850
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,119
suggested to him, wait a minute, let's move up to

851
00:45:24,159 --> 00:45:28,440
the next set of teas and try to shoot par.

852
00:45:29,159 --> 00:45:32,760
We'll do a scramble, we'll play best ball and combine

853
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:36,320
our efforts. Now make it a team sport, right, We'll

854
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,039
combine our efforts and try to shoot par. And if

855
00:45:39,119 --> 00:45:41,679
we shoot par next time, let's try to break.

856
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: Seventy exactly, move back to set.

857
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:50,280
Speaker 3: Maybe No, I'll stay forward. I like moving forward.

858
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, the result I call it K through twelve for golf.

859
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,400
I have people. I love the Operation thirty six program.

860
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,920
I've been doing it for thirty years with people and

861
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,840
I'm glad those nice young PJ pros in the Trianglaria

862
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,639
of North Carolina turned it into a company, you know,

863
00:46:07,639 --> 00:46:10,840
about ten or fifteen years ago. So I have all

864
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,320
my students start at twenty five if they want to

865
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,480
do it, if they're open minded to it, start twenty

866
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,199
five yards. Let's see if you can break thirty six.

867
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:21,480
Let's go. If you can break thirty six from twenty

868
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,440
five yards for nine holes, let's go back to fifty yards.

869
00:46:25,079 --> 00:46:28,400
I've played two hundred rounds from twenty five yards the

870
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:33,199
last few years. Bread Wow, because I love just keep

871
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,280
reminding myself, I'm trying to shoot a score here by

872
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,639
hitting my pitch, chipping put the perfect distance. And I

873
00:46:39,679 --> 00:46:41,239
know this will help me when I play it, you know,

874
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,880
thirty two hundred yards, thirty four hundred yards for nine holes.

875
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:48,079
And believe or not, fred, I have these big, young, strapping,

876
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,480
you know, tough yuppie boys, twenty five thirty years old.

877
00:46:53,599 --> 00:46:57,800
A bunch of them love this. They love playing from

878
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,480
twenty five yards. Say yeah, baby, let's get they break it,

879
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,039
and then they get to fifty and they get yeah,

880
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:04,199
and then maybe they miss it at fifty or you know,

881
00:47:04,679 --> 00:47:06,920
like Oh, I can't believe that, and that helps them. See.

882
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,440
Come on, man, there's some grandmas who can break thirty

883
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,760
six from fifty yards. Man, you missed the green with

884
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:14,920
a pitch four times and nine holes and your three

885
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,079
butted five times. That's why you didn't break thirty six.

886
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,000
Now let's go back to three thousand yards. But you're

887
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:21,639
still going to be the same thing wherever you go.

888
00:47:21,679 --> 00:47:24,440
There you are. You're still gonna be the short short

889
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,239
game player from thirty two hundred yards as you are

890
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:30,320
from fifty. So it has been so much fun, Fred, Yeah,

891
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,960
I'm with you, man, be open minded. I'm a leftover hippie,

892
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,639
you know. I mean, we don't have to do what

893
00:47:37,639 --> 00:47:41,119
the authority figure tells us all the time, you know, rebellions, authority, trust,

894
00:47:41,199 --> 00:47:44,480
no one over thirty, you know all that stuff. Let's

895
00:47:44,679 --> 00:47:48,440
live a little. It's recreation and so yeah, man, it

896
00:47:48,519 --> 00:47:52,559
is so much fun to show people this and say,

897
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:56,719
let's get gradual about this, you know, let's gradually improve.

898
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:00,400
It's K through twelve for golf. Is what a friend

899
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,519
asked me one time. He said, what do you call that, Joel?

900
00:48:02,559 --> 00:48:04,800
That gradual progression? So you don't get mad at the

901
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:09,039
ninth grader, I mean the second grader. He's getting all

902
00:48:09,039 --> 00:48:10,800
the right answers in second grade math class. And then

903
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:12,679
he said, sweet, let's throw him in the ninth grade

904
00:48:13,039 --> 00:48:16,199
algebra Trigg class. And then we get mad at him

905
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:20,199
because he didn't get all the right answers. No, but

906
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:22,159
all those ninth graders who are getting all the right

907
00:48:22,159 --> 00:48:24,880
answers in algebra Trigg class at one time, we're a

908
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,840
second grader. So let's have an objective measure, just like

909
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:33,440
traditional Western schooling. Let's do the easier stuff first, and

910
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,039
when you master that, let's go the next. Let's go

911
00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:39,960
to the next. And so so I love that, and

912
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:41,480
I believe it or not. Like I said, there are

913
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,840
a bunch of young strong you know, disc golf players

914
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,519
and soccer players and baseball players and big strong guy.

915
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,679
Hey this is cool man, I like this. I'm getting there.

916
00:48:52,199 --> 00:48:58,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay again. The book is called Golf Success Before

917
00:48:58,159 --> 00:49:04,840
Every Round by Joel Suggs. You can find it on Amazon. Correct, great,

918
00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:11,000
find it online. And you also have a YouTube channel, yes,

919
00:49:11,159 --> 00:49:15,400
that people can see more from your stuff. And Joel,

920
00:49:15,639 --> 00:49:18,360
you're gonna have to come back because I want to

921
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,719
know more about your family. History. I'm really intrigued about

922
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,639
hearing from your son all the way back for four

923
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:29,559
generations of golf instruction. That sounds fascinating to me, and

924
00:49:29,639 --> 00:49:33,360
I think it's worthy of more time here on Golf Smarter.

925
00:49:33,639 --> 00:49:36,159
I really appreciate you coming on. Thanks so much for

926
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:36,960
coming on back.

927
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,119
Speaker 1: Thank you Gret for having me. Like I said, and

928
00:49:39,199 --> 00:49:41,119
Georgia go out over the years, off and on. Great

929
00:49:41,159 --> 00:49:41,960
to be with your person.

930
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 3: Oh he is somebody we will get back on the

931
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,079
show again. There's too much to learn from him to

932
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:53,559
let it go as simple as that, and great stories

933
00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:58,320
about his family, too unbelievable. So this episode, and this

934
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,679
is what I love about being able to do podcasts

935
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,119
these days. It didn't happen like that when I was

936
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:07,559
first starting out. But I prepared this episode last week

937
00:50:08,119 --> 00:50:10,960
because right now I'm visiting an old friend who lives

938
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:15,000
in Hawaii on the island of Maui. Actually, Richie's the

939
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,519
guy who got me hooked playing golf in the late

940
00:50:17,599 --> 00:50:20,159
nineteen nineties. Not sure if I'm gonna be able to

941
00:50:20,159 --> 00:50:22,760
get some interviews while there, but I am trying to

942
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,320
secure one. Next week, I'll let you know which three

943
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,920
courses we ended up playing now. As I mentioned last week,

944
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:31,880
I want you to keep your ears open because we're

945
00:50:32,039 --> 00:50:35,800
just an episode or two away from securing all the

946
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:40,760
details and announcing our next Golf Smarter adventure. This time,

947
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,519
we've got openings for three foursomes to meet in Alabama

948
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:49,280
and play five courses on the legendary Robert Trent Jones

949
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,800
Trail during the last weekend of March twenty twenty five.

950
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,760
I really hope you can join me and other Golf

951
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,320
Smarter listeners because I've always wanted to play the trail,

952
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,719
and when the Golf Smarter Listeners get together to play golf,

953
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,239
we have a blast. Details on all of it coming soon.

954
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,199
This Friday in Golf Smarter Mulligans will get the first

955
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:13,840
of two conversations with Bob Foreman. The first one is

956
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:17,599
called your Posture Could be the Key to fixing your game.

957
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 2: Part of the assessment that I do on golfer is

958
00:51:20,039 --> 00:51:22,719
there is a balance element, and you'd be surprised how

959
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,920
many I would say close to eighty five ninety percent

960
00:51:26,119 --> 00:51:28,840
really have some issues with balance. And when you're moving

961
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,800
your body parts in different directions all at the same time,

962
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,000
I mean, balance becomes a vital component as you're trying

963
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,840
to shift your weight from your trail leg to your

964
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:39,920
target leg. I mean, if you have a balance issue

965
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,599
that's going to play havoc with your swing and your

966
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,679
playing performance. You know, we don't practice it. The second

967
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:50,000
issue is that a lot of us tend to lose strength,

968
00:51:50,159 --> 00:51:54,559
especially in the lower body. That correlates to the inability

969
00:51:54,639 --> 00:51:58,639
to maintain balance and such. So it's important to make

970
00:51:58,679 --> 00:52:01,119
sure that you do get checked balance. And even if

971
00:52:01,159 --> 00:52:03,280
you don't, I mean, just to practice it. Just try

972
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,559
to balance on one leg and see if you have

973
00:52:05,599 --> 00:52:08,000
a tougher time trying to balance on your right leg

974
00:52:08,119 --> 00:52:10,440
versus your left leg. You'd be surprised how many people

975
00:52:10,599 --> 00:52:13,079
are good on one side but terrible on the other.

976
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,119
You just need to work on it to make sure

977
00:52:15,159 --> 00:52:17,679
that you're kind of balancing out your balance sort of.

978
00:52:17,679 --> 00:52:21,920
Speaker 3: Speak originally from November twenty twelve, episode three hundred and

979
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:25,800
fifty nine has even more insights that I know you'll

980
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:29,679
find interesting. I want to thank this week's Golf Smarter Ambassador,

981
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:34,559
Jim O'Donnell from Sun City, West Arizona. Now. Jim received

982
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,719
all three of our gifts, including a glove and glove

983
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:41,239
storage compartment from Red Rooster Golf, a box of the

984
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:45,000
mind blowing Flight Path golf tees, and a link to

985
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,639
Tony Manzoni's video of a loss Fundamental. I'd like you

986
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:51,320
to get all three gifts as well. Just write an

987
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,760
honest review and send me what you wrote and where

988
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:57,639
you posted it. Once we confirm that your review is public,

989
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,599
I'll email you with the instructions on how to receive

990
00:53:00,639 --> 00:53:03,679
your gifts. Or if you'd like, you can introduce an

991
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:06,519
upcoming episode and tell all your playing partners that you

992
00:53:06,599 --> 00:53:09,880
were on your favorite golf podcast. If you have any

993
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:14,360
questions comments, want to open a future episode with where

994
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:17,400
you're from, where you play and the episode number, or

995
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:21,119
you've submitted a review on your favorite podcast platform, or

996
00:53:21,159 --> 00:53:24,480
maybe you have a suggestion for an upcoming episode, Please

997
00:53:24,559 --> 00:53:28,280
write to golf smarterpodcast at gmail dot com or click

998
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:32,960
on the Heyfred button when you visit golfsmarter dot com