WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.519 --> 00:00:07.799 Hey folks, welcome back to the Ruby Rokes podcast. 2 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:10.759 This week, on our panel we have Valentino Stole and 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:15.320 now I'm Charles Maxwood from top End Devs. Go check 4 00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:18.960 out my latest and greatest at AI for Ruby dot com. 5 00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:21.239 We have a special guest this week and that is 6 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:25.839 JP Kamara. JP, you've been writing about concurrency. 7 00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:29.640 We were chatting before. You live back East. 8 00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:31.000 I don't know if you want to go into more 9 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:34.960 detail than that, but yeah, well maybe you should give 10 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:35.679 us just a little. 11 00:00:35.479 --> 00:00:36.320 Bit of your background. 12 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:40.000 And we invited you for Ruby Concurrency series, so if 13 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:40.920 there's a story behind that. 14 00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:41.719 I'd love to hear that too. 15 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:43.000 Sure. 16 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:47.079 Yeah, thanks for having me. Like I said, I'm JPI Kamara. 17 00:00:47.159 --> 00:00:49.840 I'm yeah. I live in Rhode Island. It's on the 18 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:50.439 East Coast. 19 00:00:50.920 --> 00:00:54.159 I'm a principal engineer at a company called Walthbox, and 20 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:58.000 I've been doing Ruby development for about I've been developing 21 00:00:58.039 --> 00:00:59.960 for like sixteen seventeen years, but I've been doing Ruby 22 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:03.920 development for about twelve years, and some other languages mixed 23 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:06.920 in there as well, and so I write technical blog 24 00:01:06.959 --> 00:01:09.200 posts over at jpcimara dot com and for the past 25 00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:13.719 year actually I started about a year ago writing a 26 00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:17.959 series on Ruby currency something concurrency in general, something I'm 27 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:21.159 super interested in, and I've wanted to create like a 28 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:24.439 great in depth resource for the Ruby community. And so 29 00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:27.560 as a result of doing that as well, I ended 30 00:01:27.640 --> 00:01:31.400 up contributing a bit to the GVL Instrumentation API. I 31 00:01:31.439 --> 00:01:34.680 contributed the mac os support. Yeah, so I've done a 32 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:35.920 little bit with that. So I've worked a little bit 33 00:01:35.959 --> 00:01:40.640 with Jean Busier and Ivo Angoe with his GBL tracing gem. 34 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:45.280 And i contributed the macOS support for Coeci's mn thread 35 00:01:45.319 --> 00:01:48.159 scheduler for Ruby three point three. 36 00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:49.040 So it's it's been. 37 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:51.560 Pretty fun, Like I've it's been a lot of work, 38 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:53.200 and I still have a lot left to do, but 39 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:55.000 it's it's taught me a lot. It's allowed me to 40 00:01:55.239 --> 00:01:59.200 like contribute to Ruby itself. I've learned, you know, I'm 41 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:03.560 a very terrible C programmer now and so so yeah, 42 00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:06.400 it's been an interesting year kind of digging into this. 43 00:02:06.439 --> 00:02:08.639 And so about about three months ago I started releasing 44 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:11.759 the first parts of the series and those have been 45 00:02:11.840 --> 00:02:13.000 pretty well received so far. 46 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:17.639 Nice, well, thanks for the work, Yeah, I look forward 47 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:18.520 to benefiting from it. 48 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:21.719 Yeah, I hope people can like it's I mean, the 49 00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:24.560 GVL Instrumentation API. I'm using it like kind of as 50 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:26.479 like an educational resource. That's kind of how I got 51 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:27.639 into it. I was like, Oh, I really want to 52 00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:30.680 be able to show people like how threads coordinate, how 53 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:33.680 the GVL plays into that. And Evo, I think you've 54 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:35.319 had on the on the show a couple of times. 55 00:02:36.599 --> 00:02:39.319 His GVL tracing gem creates like a UI layer for that, 56 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:41.120 and so I'm using that as a basis for both 57 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:44.360 using his gem and also creating some like animations of 58 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:46.199 like how threads swap between each other and. 59 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:46.719 Stuff like that. 60 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:49.280 So that'll be in my next blog post that hasn't 61 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:51.719 come out yet, which is specifically digging into threads. 62 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:54.280 Yeah. 63 00:02:54.439 --> 00:02:54.840 Very cool. 64 00:02:54.919 --> 00:02:55.120 Yeah. 65 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:58.000 Well, and it's funny because you know, you said you've 66 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:00.159 been around the Ruby community for like twelve years. I 67 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:04.039 can't remember how long Valentino has been doing this, but. 68 00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:05.919 You know it's been it's been a while. 69 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:10.479 Right, I've been doing this, what sixteen seventeen years, and 70 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:14.199 you know I got into programming getting into Ruby, right, So. 71 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:18.719 Anyway, it's it's interesting because. 72 00:03:18.439 --> 00:03:21.680 I don't think anyone's given a coherent explanation, even back 73 00:03:21.719 --> 00:03:24.360 when we were just kind of doing like DRB and threads, 74 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:28.159 given a coherent explanation of Hey, this is what this 75 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:28.960 is and this is. 76 00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:29.560 How it works. 77 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:33.680 Right, people just complained about the gotchas, Right I tried 78 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:36.719 using threads and oh so bad. 79 00:03:37.240 --> 00:03:40.319 Right, So this is this is very much needed. 80 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:43.680 The other thing is is that a lot of the 81 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:48.280 naysayers on Ruby uh cite some of the issues with concurrency, 82 00:03:48.919 --> 00:03:53.520 and you know, it's like it's like, no, it's it's there, right, 83 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:55.639 if you want to use it, you can use it. 84 00:03:57.479 --> 00:03:57.680 You know. 85 00:03:57.800 --> 00:04:00.280 That doesn't necessarily still make it the best to for 86 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:02.879 every single job, but it does a lot more than 87 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:03.800 you're given a credit for. 88 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:11.080 So yeah, absolutely, yeah, I mean in terms of, yeah, 89 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:13.319 how people perceive it, you know, there there is a 90 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:14.840 just to go back to like how. 91 00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:17.199 People used to think about it. 92 00:04:17.319 --> 00:04:19.439 I don't remember how many years ago it was, but 93 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:21.279 like I don't know how well and I like it's 94 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:22.560 a pretty well known book, but I don't know if 95 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:24.839 you guys are familiar with Jesse Stormer, I think his 96 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:28.000 last name is. He created the series called Working with 97 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:31.720 Ruby and so and so he was working with Ruby 98 00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:34.839 processes and working with Ruby threads, so like those were 99 00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:37.759 sort of my Like I had a lot of experience 100 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:40.519 in other languages with concurrency, but once I came to Ruby, 101 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:42.000 like I didn't do a lot with it at first, 102 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:43.879 you know, I did like rail stuff and everything, and 103 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:45.759 then I ended up reading those books and they really 104 00:04:45.759 --> 00:04:47.639 gave me a much deeper insight, and I kind of 105 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:50.079 wanted this to be sort of like a this series 106 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:53.279 is kind of like a successor to that, and like, 107 00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:56.879 in addition, like just more context about it, because it 108 00:04:56.920 --> 00:04:58.800 does a good job of kind of explaining like these 109 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:01.079 are the things you can do with threads, and Ruby 110 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:05.639 between threads and processes in particular, gives you the majority 111 00:05:05.680 --> 00:05:09.399 of what you need to do any to do anything really, 112 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:14.720 and that's obviously demonstrated by companies handling you know, millions, 113 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:16.480 billions of requests all that sort of stuff. 114 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:18.879 Like it's very capable and you just have to know 115 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:19.480 how to use it. 116 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:21.959 And yeah, the great part with his books is they're 117 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:23.680 a little outdated, but like a lot of the core 118 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:25.800 stuff is still there and great and they're all free 119 00:05:25.879 --> 00:05:28.959 now too, Yeah, so you can work them on the site. 120 00:05:28.600 --> 00:05:32.600 But yeah, it's definitely the concurrency the state of conurrency 121 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:34.920 today in Ruby is is very different. Like there's a 122 00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:38.279 lot more education. There's a lot more understanding of how 123 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:40.360 to handle like threading issues and things like that. There's 124 00:05:40.360 --> 00:05:43.199 a lot more deep like embedding of how threading works 125 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:44.839 into a lot of the different tools that we use, 126 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:49.319 like Puma, Sidekick, solid qu all those things. And there's 127 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:51.079 so many great abstractions. A lot of time you don't 128 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:52.759 even really need to use them. You can just use 129 00:05:52.759 --> 00:05:55.079 the abstractions, you know, And that's that's sort of what 130 00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:57.160 I advocate for a while also just trying to educate 131 00:05:57.199 --> 00:05:59.519 on also how to use them and how they. 132 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:00.560 Work sort of thing. 133 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:02.120 Can we take a step back? 134 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:06.120 Sure? Yeah, absolutely, Like I always I. 135 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:11.160 Always get like I always get thrown by like okay, 136 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:14.560 like what is parallelism, what is concurrency? Like how they're related, 137 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:17.920 how they're not sure you know, and how they like, 138 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:21.920 you know, how the handshake works with the system level 139 00:06:21.959 --> 00:06:25.720 stuff right, like each operating system has their own like 140 00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:29.480 implementation of like how to you know, process things like 141 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:31.959 how is it all related? Like can we just like 142 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:33.759 identify what we're talking about here? 143 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:36.360 Sure? Yeah? 144 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:37.920 And I'm not sure if you're teeing me up for 145 00:06:37.959 --> 00:06:39.920 the section of my most recent black post that goes 146 00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:42.519 into what is concurrency? Perhaps you are, well, we'll play 147 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:48.160 it if you are. But yeah, so, like there's it's 148 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:50.399 a great point that people kind of throw around the 149 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:53.680 words concurrency and parallelism and they think of them as 150 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:55.519 sort of meaning the same things, and they're they're a 151 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:59.800 little bit different. But like concurrency is essentially how do 152 00:06:59.879 --> 00:07:02.519 I break up a bunch of tasks so that they 153 00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:06.319 can kind of work independently, And I can and they 154 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:08.279 can be isolated, and so I can kind of have 155 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:12.079 like a good sense of how to test them in isolation, 156 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:15.360 how to run things in isolation, but coordinate them and 157 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:17.680 but it doesn't really matter like how they actually get 158 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:20.120 run behind the scenes. So concurrency is kind of how 159 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:24.160 you break up a bunch of tasks that may work together, 160 00:07:24.680 --> 00:07:26.600 but it may be that they actually just swap back 161 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:29.759 and forth between each other. So for instance, like yeah, please. 162 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:31.959 I was gonna I was just going to say, here, 163 00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:34.000 we're gonna say for instance, and I was going to say, well, 164 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:38.480 then technically people should be familiar with the idea of concurrency, 165 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:40.959 just with like your job cues on your rails app. 166 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:45.439 Right, Absolutely, job ques are a perfect example of concurrency 167 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:49.319 because especially in you know, the Ruby version that most 168 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:53.319 of us use, you know, see Ruby. Most you know, 169 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:56.480 Ruby code is constrained by what I don't want to 170 00:07:56.519 --> 00:07:58.319 jump too far into this right now, but it's constrained 171 00:07:58.360 --> 00:08:00.879 by something so that only one pe of actual Ruby 172 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:03.199 code can run at the same time. And so because 173 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:05.199 of that, most of the jobs you write, you know, 174 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:07.959 what they're really doing whenever they're running, like CPU bound 175 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:10.560 ruby code is they're they're hopping between each other. It's 176 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:12.759 like I've got job A. It runs for a little bit, 177 00:08:12.839 --> 00:08:14.480 Job B runs for a little bit, Job C runs 178 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:17.439 for a little bit. And then where the real value 179 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:20.720 of having threading and Ruby comes from is where you 180 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:23.879 can actually paralyze things. So if we get to the 181 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:29.240 parallel aspect of it, Ruby can't paralyze actual like running 182 00:08:29.319 --> 00:08:32.320 Ruby code suit bub bound ruby code, but anything that 183 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:35.279 what's called blocks, like anything that blocks in your code 184 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:38.639 can be effectively paralyzed. So, for instance, if job A, B, 185 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:41.360 and C all make a query. You know, job A 186 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:44.840 makes a query, it blocks, Job B makes a query, 187 00:08:44.919 --> 00:08:47.039 it blocks, Job C makes a query, it blocks. They're 188 00:08:47.080 --> 00:08:50.440 all running those queries in parallel, and so A job 189 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:53.759 system is absolutely the like perfect example of concurrency in Ruby, 190 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:57.720 where like, you have these independent tasks that all run 191 00:08:57.759 --> 00:09:00.480 and are swapping between each other, and at certain points 192 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:04.159 can actually run directly in parallel, so you can actually 193 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:09.639 have three things running simultaneously. Whereas concurrency as a as 194 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:12.360 a basic principle, sometimes they run at the same time, 195 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:14.799 sometimes they hop back and forth between each other. The 196 00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:17.000 concurrency is kind of that abstraction that lets you not 197 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:21.039 care about it. I write these independent tasks operating system 198 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:23.919 Ruby run time handle this for me, make it parallel 199 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:28.039 sometimes otherwise you know, just hop between them, share resources. 200 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:28.120 That sort of thing. 201 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:32.480 Right Does that does that kind of help define it 202 00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:33.840 a little bit Valentino. 203 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:34.799 Or or do you want more on that? 204 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:39.759 Yeah? Well that's great. I mean I loved how your 205 00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:43.480 latest articles kind of summarize it as an orchestrator is 206 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:47.799 being concurrency, and you know, parallelism is more of just 207 00:09:47.879 --> 00:09:50.960 like the things running at the same exact time. It 208 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:54.840 doesn't really matter, like you know, there's there's nothing anything 209 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:56.840 waiting for it, so. 210 00:09:56.960 --> 00:09:59.679 Right, yeah, I kind of want to jump in here though, 211 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:03.679 because some people are going to say, okay, well, but 212 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:05.720 why why do I care and why do I need 213 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:06.320 to know about it? 214 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:06.559 Right? 215 00:10:06.600 --> 00:10:10.240 Because the why do I care might be that it's 216 00:10:10.279 --> 00:10:11.679 faster or more efficient or. 217 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:13.360 Whatever myriad of other reasons. 218 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:15.039 Right, But then why do I even need to know 219 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:17.960 about it, especially if there is an orchestrator behind the 220 00:10:17.960 --> 00:10:19.200 scenes that does it all for me? 221 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:26.360 M Yeah, that's a good question. I think there's a 222 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:28.000 couple of layers to why you might want to care 223 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:30.360 about it. So the start of the series, I wrote, 224 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:32.679 so you know, the piece we're kind of coming in 225 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:36.200 at for anybody listening to this episode is, you know, 226 00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:38.039 we came out at the point of the blog post 227 00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:42.240 Ruby methods are Colorless, which talks about how like what 228 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:46.039 the different primitives of Ruby are for concurrency and parallelism, 229 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:48.440 because some things in Ruby can't actually run in parallel 230 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:49.320 and we can talk. 231 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:52.159 Right, So what is what do you mean by colors? Like, 232 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:55.679 I was curious about this. I love your explanation of 233 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:58.679 your post, but you want to clear that up. 234 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:01.080 Yeah, absolutely, that's a that's a great point. 235 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:04.799 So colorless programming was actually a concept I had no 236 00:11:04.879 --> 00:11:05.799 idea about a year ago. 237 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:06.039 Either. 238 00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:08.200 That's kind of like part of what got me going 239 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:10.600 in this whole thing. Is somebody just literally I don't 240 00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:11.879 know if you guys have heard of the Prime Egen. 241 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:16.919 He's this like kind of JavaScript personality. And he talked 242 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:19.279 about like colorless programming and go and I'm like, what 243 00:11:19.559 --> 00:11:21.080 I was like, I'd never heard that term before. What 244 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:23.879 does colorless mean? Same as kind of you're asking right now? 245 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:27.039 And so I looked into it, and what really colorless 246 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:31.759 means is that there's some languages that and JavaScript is 247 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:33.679 the example that we use here, but some languages, when 248 00:11:33.679 --> 00:11:37.600 you want to do things concurrently or in parallel or whatever, 249 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:40.559 you have to explicitly say like, hey, this piece of code, 250 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:43.679 I want you to do this asynchronous thing now. 251 00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:44.919 And the most common way you'll find in. 252 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:48.000 Languages is you literally say, like, here's an async piece 253 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:49.799 of code. When I go to run it, I have 254 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:52.120 to tell you I would like you to await this 255 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:54.720 thing to finish, right, and. 256 00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:59.799 So contact Yeah, yeah, my word's not working, but yeah, 257 00:12:00.759 --> 00:12:03.600 they have keywords a sync a weight exactly. 258 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:06.279 Yeah, JavaScript has a sink a weight. Rust also actually 259 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:09.360 has a sinklewight. Python, a bunch of other languages, there's 260 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:11.840 like kind of a fork in some languages have chosen 261 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:13.600 to go a sink a weight, and some languages have 262 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:16.440 chosen to go a different way. And so when you 263 00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:19.559 have a sinkle weight, it effectively like I describe it 264 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:22.000 as kind of like infecting your code in a sense. 265 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:24.360 It's like every piece of code that wants to use 266 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:27.840 this asink a weight syntax has to buy into it. 267 00:12:27.879 --> 00:12:30.639 You're always like, it's these layers of like I'm calling 268 00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:32.679 a sinkle weight, Okay, the thing calling that has to 269 00:12:32.679 --> 00:12:34.240 do a sinkle weight, the think calling that, and the 270 00:12:34.279 --> 00:12:36.279 moment you don't do that, you kind of get into 271 00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:40.399 this like clunky syntax promises and all that stuff. And 272 00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:43.360 so the cool thing about colorless languages and Ruby and 273 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:48.120 some other languages as well is that the run time 274 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:51.279 takes care of that asynchronous behavior for you. 275 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:53.320 You don't have to worry about saying like I'm about 276 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:53.759 to do this. 277 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:55.600 I want to do this asyncrenous thing, so I have 278 00:12:55.639 --> 00:12:58.200 to know to call await a sinc all those types 279 00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:01.320 of things, and Ruby like you say, like I want 280 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:03.320 to call this thing. I want to let's say an 281 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:05.679 HTP request, And so I make my HDP request and 282 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:07.480 Ruby goes like, oh, hey, this is a bocking thing. 283 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:10.360 I'm just gonna tell your thread or your fiber or 284 00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:12.639 whatever go to sleep for now. I'll take care of 285 00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:14.320 this for you behind the scenes. And if there's any 286 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:16.360 other threads or fibers running, you know, like if our 287 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:18.919 job example, if there's another job that needs to do something, hey, 288 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:20.879 you can do something now. And so I don't have 289 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:22.679 as a programmer, I don't have to worry about that. 290 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:25.720 I don't have to have that infect my code. And 291 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:28.279 the reason they call it colorless is from an article 292 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:31.120 from twenty fifteen where he referred to like, you have 293 00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:34.480 red and blue functions. So hopefully I don't get it wrong, 294 00:13:34.519 --> 00:13:36.480 but red, I think, is the asynchronous function. In blue 295 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:39.799 is your synchronous functions, and so like you end up 296 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:42.679 having this like a coloring of your code. Every ACYNC 297 00:13:42.679 --> 00:13:44.759 function is this red one. Every nine a sync is 298 00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:46.559 this blue one. And the moment you want to do 299 00:13:46.799 --> 00:13:49.159 an ACYNC thing, you have to make your function red. 300 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:51.279 And if that function calling it wants to do an 301 00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:53.159 ACINC thing, you make that function red. And so you 302 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:57.279 have this color to your program and this distinct syntax. 303 00:13:57.279 --> 00:13:59.600 And then Ruby you don't have to have that color. 304 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:02.759 In some other languages as well, like Java, actually in fact, 305 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:07.720 is also a colorless language. So so yeah, that's that's 306 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:08.840 the colorless concept. 307 00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:14.559 Not too Yeah, so let's rope this back into Okay, 308 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:16.559 so I don't have to I don't have to color 309 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:18.720 my methods, So why do I care? 310 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:20.320 Yeah. 311 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:22.360 So, so the series kind of goes into a couple 312 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:24.480 of aspects of it. The first part of it is 313 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:28.080 really it's two parts, and it's called your Ruby programs 314 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:31.919 are multi threaded And the thing that I want the 315 00:14:32.000 --> 00:14:34.840 point of me writing those articles was part of the series, 316 00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:37.480 but also just part of my own interaction with different 317 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:39.480 gems and things over the years that I've had threading 318 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:41.840 bugs in them, because I think it's easy to forget 319 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:46.519 that in almost every programming language you use, behind the scenes, 320 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:49.200 there are there is concurrency happening, whether you want it 321 00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:52.360 or not. Right if you're using Kuma, you've got threads running. 322 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:55.120 You're using Sidekick or a solid q, you've got threads running. 323 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:57.559 Even if you're using like a process based server, there's 324 00:14:57.600 --> 00:14:59.720 there's concurrency elements that are running there, and so being 325 00:14:59.759 --> 00:15:02.639 away of them helps you write safer code. 326 00:15:02.919 --> 00:15:04.519 So, just as a baseline, just if. 327 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:08.480 You want to like create code that is safe to run, 328 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:11.120 there's certain things that you need to identify, and to 329 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:13.360 identify those like so for instance, like I go into 330 00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:17.000 you know, like global variables, right, it seems so obvious, 331 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:20.480 but there are still there's legitimately still times where I 332 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:23.320 interact with gems and I've submitted some some fixes and 333 00:15:23.320 --> 00:15:26.639 stuff for certain gems where there's just global variables being used, 334 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:29.320 and they work fine as long as your threads don't 335 00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:31.960 end up swapping between each other. And so you especially 336 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:34.159 in CEE ruby, like a lot of times they won't 337 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:35.919 swap between each other, and so things seem to be okay, 338 00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:37.480 and then you just have these random errors, or you 339 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:40.039 have these random data coruptions, or you have like users 340 00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:42.679 data get mixed together. And so part of the reason 341 00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:44.320 that I think people should care and should have an 342 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:46.919 understanding about how concurrency works is just for their own 343 00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:49.440 just to keep your code like safe and to understand 344 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:52.240 the principles to keep your code safe. It's actually not 345 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:55.279 super hard to do, but there's certain certain key things 346 00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:58.440 that you should understand to keep your code consistent. And 347 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:00.600 on top of that, I know kind of gone long 348 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:02.200 winded on that a little bit. But the other reason 349 00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:04.320 to care about the currency is it helps you scale 350 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:07.799 your applications right right, At a smaller scale with applications 351 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:10.879 probably doesn't matter too much if you really understand it. 352 00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:12.759 But as you you know, as you get into like 353 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:16.480 tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of jobs and 354 00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:19.440 requests and things how you tune and how you organize 355 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:21.679 your code and what you call and how what or 356 00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:24.080 do you call it, and suddenly starts being really valuable 357 00:16:24.159 --> 00:16:26.200 and understanding, like, oh, if I know how a thread 358 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:27.919 works or a fiber works, and I run this code 359 00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:31.720 this way, I can scale my application better, right, And 360 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:33.799 so so yeah, that's that's kind of and you know, 361 00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:35.639 the third part for me is just I just find 362 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:37.799 it very interesting. So if you're somebody who just likes 363 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:40.120 reading about interesting things and you like reveal a lot, 364 00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:42.200 you know, I find it interesting in that regard. 365 00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:45.919 So so yeah, I love the curiosity by the way. 366 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:47.399 I feel the same way. 367 00:16:47.799 --> 00:16:51.000 And then I started getting into after we talk to 368 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:53.519 Obie Fernandez on the AI stuff, and I. 369 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:55.279 Just I can't put it down. 370 00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:57.799 I just I can't make myself put it away. 371 00:16:58.120 --> 00:17:02.279 So sure, and that's one of the the most enjoyable things. Yes, 372 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:07.279 rightest with a piece of programming or a particular technique 373 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:07.720 or whatever. 374 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:09.240 It's just yeah, it's the most fun. 375 00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:10.079 Right. 376 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.920 But going back to your other point, you know, whether 377 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:17.359 it's Puma or Falcon or something else, you know at 378 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:20.359 your web server or you know, depending on how your 379 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.000 job queueing works, you know, whether it's using threads or 380 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.119 fibers or processes or something else. And they tend to 381 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:30.559 use them blend of them, actually a lot of them, right, So, 382 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:33.400 so understanding how they orchestrate some of that, Yeah, you 383 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:36.480 can get more horsepower out of your machine. 384 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:38.039 Absolutely, yeah. 385 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:41.720 And sometimes you know, like there's there's great abstractions like 386 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:44.880 Falcin or Puma or Sidekick, but even your own code. 387 00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:47.000 Sometimes you know, you might be like, oh, like I've 388 00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:49.400 got the synchronous piece of code, but I need to 389 00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:52.240 like call a few different APIs, right, and if you can, 390 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:53.839 if they're not dependent on each other and you can 391 00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:55.920 call them a parallel, it's great to know how to 392 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:57.759 do that, and like what's the best tool to do that? 393 00:17:57.799 --> 00:17:58.759 What are the gotchas? 394 00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:01.640 And you know, I'll get into that like later in 395 00:18:01.640 --> 00:18:03.759 the series as well, but like you know, largely, I think. 396 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:05.000 For like your own code that you're writing. 397 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:08.359 I tend to say, like, you know, don't thread if 398 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:10.400 you don't have to, because you can you can shoot 399 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:11.799 yourself in the foot if you do. But if you're 400 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:13.279 going to do something that you want to have some 401 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:15.720