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<v Speaker 1>For nearly thirty years, the brutal murder of twenty year

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<v Speaker 1>old Sophie Surgery haunted Alaska. Sophie was found dead in

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<v Speaker 1>a college dorm bathroom in nineteen ninety three, a victim

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<v Speaker 1>of horrific violence. Her story was a cold case that

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<v Speaker 1>seemed destined to remain unsolved until decades later, though, when,

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<v Speaker 1>through relentless determination of investigators and groundbreaking DNA technology, her

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<v Speaker 1>killer was finally brought to justice, unraveling a mystery that

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<v Speaker 1>haunted her family and the community for generations.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked

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<v Speaker 2>and Grim, a true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>The following podcast material intended more mature audience. It's another

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<v Speaker 1>day and we have another story for you, brought to

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<v Speaker 1>you by Patreon. It's actually kind of brought to you

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<v Speaker 1>by Patreon because one of our patron members, Alena Hyatt,

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<v Speaker 1>recommended this case over on Patreon. So there you go,

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<v Speaker 1>technically brought to you by Patreon aka Patrons aka Alena Hyatt.

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<v Speaker 1>So there we go.

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<v Speaker 2>There go.

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<v Speaker 1>Quick little shout out to today for helping us out

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<v Speaker 1>with that one. That's a nice thing of being on Patreon.

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<v Speaker 1>As you get the behind the scenes. You can you

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<v Speaker 1>don't have some say sometimes, you know, give us some

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<v Speaker 1>little nudges in the right direction. And that's exactly what

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<v Speaker 1>happened there.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, yeah, that's awesome. It's a great way to

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<v Speaker 2>to you know, help us with our research. And you're like,

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<v Speaker 2>do this case, do that case, do this case?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, dance monkey dance, Oh my god. But yeah. So

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<v Speaker 1>shout out to Elena. Also shout out to those who

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<v Speaker 1>signed up on our Patreon this week. We have haven My,

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<v Speaker 1>Tracy Hawthorn, Kimbo, and Megan Marker right on. Thank you

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<v Speaker 1>very much for signing up. We appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 2>Dang good list.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we're an ani podcast, so your support means the world.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure do. We just did a pre show over on

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<v Speaker 2>Patreon and you know I no longer have a drink

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<v Speaker 2>now you don't finished my drink over there?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, do you want to get a drink all made

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<v Speaker 1>up for the show?

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<v Speaker 2>No, it's okay. It was just hot chocolate. It was delicious.

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<v Speaker 1>You want another hot chocolate?

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<v Speaker 2>Just again? What the hell is wrong with me?

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<v Speaker 1>Because there's nothing wrong with the word just.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a delicious, glorious hot chocolate. It was just

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<v Speaker 2>a delicious glory iled it.

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<v Speaker 1>It was so good. On the pre show though, over

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<v Speaker 1>on Patreon, you did mention something that I just wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to kind of like throw out there. Blue Monday is

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<v Speaker 1>coming up.

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<v Speaker 2>It is, yeah, third Monday of every January.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I thought you had a pretty good idea

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<v Speaker 1>on how to combat blue Monday. So do you want

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<v Speaker 1>to go ahead and divulge?

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<v Speaker 2>Well again, okay, this works for me. I find when

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have something to necessarily like look forward to,

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<v Speaker 2>like an event or a trip or even just like

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<v Speaker 2>some sort of self care thing like I don't do

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<v Speaker 2>as well. I just like to have something to look

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<v Speaker 2>forward to. So we have an event that we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to on the following Saturday, I believe it's Saturday. And

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<v Speaker 2>so basically just like do a little something that you book,

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<v Speaker 2>like a massage, like a date with a friend. You said,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe plan to make like a favorite meal, just like

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<v Speaker 2>have something on your calendar or something that you can

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<v Speaker 2>look forward to.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and if you're really wanting to make sure that

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<v Speaker 1>you are really happy, sit back and watch Lord of

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<v Speaker 1>the Rings. Oh man, you know that gets the dope?

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<v Speaker 1>Mean going didn't we are?

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<v Speaker 2>You also said pet a dog, I said, buy a dog,

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<v Speaker 2>Get a dog.

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<v Speaker 1>Those are always you can combat the blues, and especially

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<v Speaker 1>with Blue Monday coming up.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know, it's just nice to have just

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<v Speaker 2>a little something in your calendar that you can be

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<v Speaker 2>excited about that's coming up. So I think at any

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<v Speaker 2>time of the year, that's kind of nice.

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<v Speaker 1>I agree, I feel you, and that's really good idea.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I just wanted to make sure that we

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<v Speaker 1>injected that in there a little bit before we got

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<v Speaker 1>in today's episode, of course. Yeah, so you ready for

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<v Speaker 1>this one?

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<v Speaker 2>I think so?

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<v Speaker 1>You think?

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<v Speaker 2>So I got zero clue what's going on here?

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<v Speaker 1>So what do you mean zero? I told you in

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<v Speaker 1>the intro going on?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I know, but that's just like such a little

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<v Speaker 2>piece of it. I do like Alaska cases because Alaska

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<v Speaker 2>like fascinates me a little bit. I would love to

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<v Speaker 2>explore it over there more like it's not that far

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<v Speaker 2>from us. Well it's a little far, but not that bad.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. It's just like a territory that I

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<v Speaker 2>like listening about and hearing about because it's so it's

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<v Speaker 2>just so it seems so remote and I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>I just want we need to explore Alaska more. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not sponsored by Alaska. It's not And I do

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<v Speaker 2>want to clarify Alaska is not a territory. Alaska is

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<v Speaker 2>a state. Oh yeah, I know. I didn't say, Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't mean territory like as.

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<v Speaker 1>In the Northwest toward territory.

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<v Speaker 2>Did I say territory. You called it a territory, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>but I didn't mean, like I knew, it's not a No,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not part of part of the US. I know that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay. The Yukon is a Canadian Yeah, yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>just clarifying because you called it a territory.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, but I just me I meant as in,

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<v Speaker 2>like the climate the territory understandable thing, right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I get I give get you, I got you.

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<v Speaker 2>Just making sure I don't look real dumb.

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<v Speaker 1>May basically because it might be someone who's like, actually.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I'm very aware it's part of the United States, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's like it's so close to us. It's interesting

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<v Speaker 2>how it's like, I don't know, divided like that, and

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<v Speaker 2>I know there's so much to it, but it's just

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<v Speaker 2>a place that I want to explore more one day.

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<v Speaker 1>Fair enough, well, let's talk about this. We're not going

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<v Speaker 1>to talk too much about the Alaskan territory, I know,

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<v Speaker 1>but we will touch on a little bit because yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>there is a little bit of geographical stuff that we're

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<v Speaker 1>going over, not much, but a little bit. So it

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<v Speaker 1>starts off with, you know, our main story, our individual

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<v Speaker 1>who this is all about. It starts off with Sophie.

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<v Speaker 1>So Sophie Surgery was born in June of nineteen seventy two,

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<v Speaker 1>and she was born at Piccas Point, Alaska, which is

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<v Speaker 1>a tiny village with a population of just around seventy

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<v Speaker 1>people at the time of her birth.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, like many people in her community, Sophie was

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<v Speaker 1>a member of the you pick, an indigenous Alaskan group

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<v Speaker 1>with deep cultural roots in the region. From a young age,

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<v Speaker 1>Sophie stood out as a bright and hard working individual.

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<v Speaker 1>People in her community admired her for her determination and

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<v Speaker 1>her quirky sense of humor. She had a knack for

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<v Speaker 1>making other people laugh off in cracking jokes that she

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't help but laugh at herself. She's one of those

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<v Speaker 1>kind of individuals that knows she's funny and is not

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<v Speaker 1>a afraid to laugh when she makes a good one.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>Love that about her. Now just four foot nine inches tall,

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<v Speaker 1>she was quite a petite woman, but what she lacked

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<v Speaker 1>in height, she more than made up for with her

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<v Speaker 1>vibrant personality and strong spirit. Sophie lived with her mother, Elena,

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<v Speaker 1>and her younger brother, helping her mom manage the household

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<v Speaker 1>while dreaming of a big future. One of her earliest

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<v Speaker 1>aspirations was to join the US Navy, but unfortunately, her

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<v Speaker 1>height disqualified her from ever being able to. Undeterred, Sophie

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<v Speaker 1>found another dream to pursue. She wanted to work with

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<v Speaker 1>marine life, specifically whales, animals that she deeply admired. Determined

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<v Speaker 1>to follow this new path, Sophie focused on her education,

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<v Speaker 1>and her dedication would pay off when she finally earned

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<v Speaker 1>a full scholarship to the University of Alaska in af

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<v Speaker 1>Fairbanks or UAF. This was a monumental achievement not only

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<v Speaker 1>for her, but her family as well. No kidding, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>she was an honor student, and she also was the

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<v Speaker 1>first of her family to attend college post secondary now UAF.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a long way away from their home village.

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<v Speaker 1>It was about two hundred and sixty miles to the

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<v Speaker 1>north and about five and a half hour's flight away.

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<v Speaker 1>Moving from the tight knit community of seventy people to

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<v Speaker 1>a university with thousands of students was a huge adjustment

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<v Speaker 1>for Sophie Fairbanks. Though not a massive city, was far

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<v Speaker 1>more urban than anything she had ever experienced growing up.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, if you are used to a community of

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<v Speaker 1>seventy people, and I mean the university itself has more population,

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<v Speaker 1>way more. Yeah, I imagine you're going to a class

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<v Speaker 1>with a higher population than your entire village, right, no kidding,

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<v Speaker 1>So that's that's significant.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like moving in itself is, you know, kind

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<v Speaker 2>of tough. But then when it's drastically that different, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>would make it even worse or even harder.

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<v Speaker 1>Rights, It's a cultural shock, is what that is, honestly.

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<v Speaker 2>Now.

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<v Speaker 1>In nineteen ninety three, UAF had a student population of

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<v Speaker 1>around six thousand, with about one hundred, three hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>fifty students. There we go living on the campus, the

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<v Speaker 1>sheer size of the campus, the bustling environment. It was

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<v Speaker 1>just a lot, but Sophie managed to adapt. She made

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<v Speaker 1>new friends, including an individual named Shirley, a fellow Alaskan

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<v Speaker 1>Native student. The two connected quickly likely because they shared

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<v Speaker 1>similar cultural backgrounds and understood the pressures of being far

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<v Speaker 1>from home. Shirley later reflected on their college experience together,

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<v Speaker 1>explaining how much was at stake for both of them. Quote,

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<v Speaker 1>we were so afraid of failing. We had to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure that we got through school because otherwise our future

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<v Speaker 1>was back home. Home wasn't a bad place, but we

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<v Speaker 1>had dreams. We wanted to do more.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, hey, that's a statement right now.

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<v Speaker 1>Despite these challenges that they faced on campus, Sophie thrived.

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<v Speaker 1>She wasn't into partying or typical college distractions. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>of course she'd attend one or two like throughout the year,

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<v Speaker 1>but she wasn't really the typical type to go partying

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<v Speaker 1>or anything. She kept her head down and focused on

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<v Speaker 1>her studies. After two years of studying marine biology, Sophie

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<v Speaker 1>decided to take a break. It was in nineteen ninety

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<v Speaker 1>two she moved back to her village to save money

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<v Speaker 1>and prepare for a series of medical procedures, including a

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<v Speaker 1>jaw surgery and her and orthodonic work. She took a

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<v Speaker 1>job at a local school, which provided her with health insurance,

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<v Speaker 1>which she needed to cover the medical expenses, and even

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<v Speaker 1>though she was back home, Sophie still had to travel

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<v Speaker 1>to Fairbanks for her surgery. I mean, you're not going

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<v Speaker 1>to have a doctor in a village of seventy people,

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<v Speaker 1>right right, Yeah, yeah, So she had to go back

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<v Speaker 1>for those surgeries, follow up appointments, all that. So she

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<v Speaker 1>was traveling back and forth quite a bit. To save

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<v Speaker 1>money on lodging. During these trips, she stayed with her

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<v Speaker 1>friend Shirley, who graciously offered her door room on the campus.

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<v Speaker 1>Shirley would lend Sophie her keys and spend the night

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<v Speaker 1>with her boyfriend in another dorm, ensuring that her boyfriend

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<v Speaker 1>or sorry, ensuring that her friend had a comfortable place

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<v Speaker 1>to stay while she was focusing on her recovery, which

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<v Speaker 1>great friend.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's super nice.

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<v Speaker 1>Also, good excuse to spend the night.

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<v Speaker 2>With your well yeah, there was a benefit there for

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<v Speaker 2>her for sure, definitely.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So in April of nineteen ninety three, Sophie surgery

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<v Speaker 1>needed to return to Fairbanks for one of these appointments,

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<v Speaker 1>as she had done before, She arranged to stay at

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<v Speaker 1>the University of Alaskan Fairbanks again UAF with her friend Shirley.

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<v Speaker 1>On Friday, April twenty third, Sophie began her journey. She

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<v Speaker 1>flew from her home village of Pikes Point to Bethel

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<v Speaker 1>and then to Anchorage, where she stayed overnight with a

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<v Speaker 1>family friend. Then the next day, on Saturday, April twenty fourth,

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<v Speaker 1>she took her final flight to Fairbanks. Her plan was

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<v Speaker 1>to spend the weekend staying with Shirley in the dorm

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<v Speaker 1>room at Barlot Hall. Now, Barlett Hall is a big

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<v Speaker 1>focus of this case. By the sounds of it. There's

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<v Speaker 1>a few different sections of dorms, but this building, Barlet

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<v Speaker 1>Hall of Dorms is where it really takes place. From there,

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<v Speaker 1>she would attend her appointment on Monday and then fly

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<v Speaker 1>back home afterwards. Surely, always accommodating lent, Sophie her dorm

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<v Speaker 1>room key went over to spend the night with her boyfriend.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it was a simple plan that they have

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<v Speaker 1>done several times at this point. Now, Shirley's dorm room

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<v Speaker 1>was number two to seven two hundred and twenty seven

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<v Speaker 1>and it was located on the second floor of Barlot Hall.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a dormitory designated for women only. On paper,

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<v Speaker 1>it should have been safe, should have been a perfect environment,

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<v Speaker 1>a place where young women could women could live and

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<v Speaker 1>study and rest without worry. But in reality, the safety

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<v Speaker 1>of UAF campus, particularly in Barlot Hall, had been having

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<v Speaker 1>some growing concerns for years.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh shit, really yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>See, for a long time, students had been raising alarm

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<v Speaker 1>about the lack of security measures on campus. Several complaints

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<v Speaker 1>had been made about men being found wandering in the

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<v Speaker 1>women's dorms without any sort of authorization.

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<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

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<v Speaker 1>These weren't just isolated incidents easier either. They pointed out

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<v Speaker 1>a troubling pattern. Just two months before Sophie's visit, a

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<v Speaker 1>female student living in Barlot Hall had accused two UAF

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<v Speaker 1>basketball players of sexually assaulting her while another teammate watched.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, are you serious.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so this is taking place not only on campus,

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<v Speaker 1>but within the dorm room.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, that is not good at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, within the women's only dorm room.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's been happening for some time. So it's like,

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<v Speaker 2>why have they not nipped this in the butt here?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's been happening for longer than you think, because

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<v Speaker 1>so far we've only covered up two months prior to

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<v Speaker 1>There's more so, despite these serious allegations and numerous complaints,

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<v Speaker 1>campus security had not made any significant changes to address

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<v Speaker 1>these concerns. But there were more than just these few incidents.

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<v Speaker 1>Like I say, two months is not the only history here.

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<v Speaker 1>We got more than that, because there was also a

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<v Speaker 1>man who had been arrested after he was discovered naked

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<v Speaker 1>in the women's bathroom on the fourth floor of Barlot Hall.

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<v Speaker 2>Holy shit, that's disturbing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And again in nineteen ninety one, so two years prior,

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<v Speaker 1>a UAF student had been attacked in another dorm room

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<v Speaker 1>by a soldier from Fort Wainwright who attempted to sexually

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<v Speaker 1>assault her. These incidents weren't already And if these incidents

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<v Speaker 1>weren't already enough to make students uneasy, the problem, it

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00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:27.759
<v Speaker 1>stretched back even further. We're talking in nineteen seventy two,

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00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:32.240
<v Speaker 1>a horrific crime that shocked UAF's campus. On December tenth

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<v Speaker 1>of that year, a student named Jody ray Stanback was

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<v Speaker 1>raped and murdered in her dorm room. Her killer was

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<v Speaker 1>identified as Alan Walling Terrible with his last name Wallonga

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00:14:44.919 --> 00:14:47.679
<v Speaker 1>Alan Wallonga, I believe is how he pronounced it. He

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<v Speaker 1>was a man with a history of sexual violence, and

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<v Speaker 1>he had gained unauthorized access to her room. According to reports,

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<v Speaker 1>he watched Jody's sleep before committing the brutal assault. D

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<v Speaker 1>The trag you left the university reeling, and resident advisors

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00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:07.600
<v Speaker 1>urging administration to improve dorm security. They suggested adding locks

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<v Speaker 1>to bathroom doors to prevent unauthorized access, but no action

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00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:14.840
<v Speaker 1>was really ever taken. Lack of changes left many students vulnerable,

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00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:19.120
<v Speaker 1>and these lapses in security would tragically resurface decades later.

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<v Speaker 2>Gosh, you think you have an event like that, hey, Like,

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00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:24.559
<v Speaker 2>if anything's going to wake you up to change some shit,

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00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:28.320
<v Speaker 2>it's that exactly. But then this is just like it's

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00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:30.799
<v Speaker 2>just ongoing because I don't know, I feel like it

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00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:33.960
<v Speaker 2>can't be that hard to secure a dorm, you know it,

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00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:35.799
<v Speaker 2>maybe I'm out to lunch.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, because they do have security on campus. They do

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<v Speaker 1>have individuals who are supposed to be checking like you know,

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00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:46.080
<v Speaker 1>visitors check in, right, yeah, but it's not being enforced

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00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.000
<v Speaker 1>like whatsoever. So I mean, maybe there's some procedures in place,

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00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:52.120
<v Speaker 1>but there's no one checking up to ensure that these

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00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:54.639
<v Speaker 1>procedures are being followed according to the according to the

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<v Speaker 1>regulations or anything.

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<v Speaker 2>Huh.

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00:15:56.919 --> 00:15:58.600
<v Speaker 1>And then of course, on top of that, you have

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00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:01.720
<v Speaker 1>things that should be implement like engineered controls like locks

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00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:04.120
<v Speaker 1>or something like that as well, which they're just lapsing

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00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:06.679
<v Speaker 1>on two. So it's a failure of the entire system,

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00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:09.759
<v Speaker 1>not only what's in place, but the failure of identifying

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<v Speaker 1>what else should be in place.

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00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:14.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's just terrifying that. I mean, that's their home, right,

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<v Speaker 2>You think that you should be able to feel comfortable

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00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:17.519
<v Speaker 2>and safe in.

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00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:21.200
<v Speaker 1>Your home, but unfortunately they weren't. Now, I guess that

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00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:25.480
<v Speaker 1>might also be the benefit of the rotating students, because

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00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:27.879
<v Speaker 1>those who maybe don't feel safe because hey, maybe there

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00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:32.720
<v Speaker 1>was someone attacked or someone who was found unauthorized wandering

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00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:35.840
<v Speaker 1>around naked, whatever the situation, some of the individuals who

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00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:38.759
<v Speaker 1>experienced that, Hey, in a couple of years, they're no

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00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:40.679
<v Speaker 1>longer here, And in a couple of years we have

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00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:44.039
<v Speaker 1>a whole new stack of students who are just fresh

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00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:47.360
<v Speaker 1>and don't know. And you know, it's just giving it

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00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:52.159
<v Speaker 1>that environment to repeat itself without people having that growing concern.

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00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, and like, what are you supposed to do?

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00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:57.480
<v Speaker 2>It sounds like people were, you know, addressing their concerns,

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00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:00.159
<v Speaker 2>but you can only do that so much.

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00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:06.319
<v Speaker 1>Really exactly now, Sophie arrived in Fairbanks on Saturday, April

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<v Speaker 1>twenty fourth. As I mentioned earlier, she spent much of

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<v Speaker 1>that day running errands around the city before returning to

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00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:14.599
<v Speaker 1>the UAF campus to spend the night. That evening, Sophie

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00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:17.000
<v Speaker 1>enjoyed her time with friends, hanging out and catching up,

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00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:20.160
<v Speaker 1>and on Sunday she kept a low profile, spending most

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00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:23.440
<v Speaker 1>of her time in and around Barlot Hall. Later that night,

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00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:25.519
<v Speaker 1>she went to see a movie with three friends, and

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00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:27.880
<v Speaker 1>after the film, they all decided to take a scenic

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00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:32.319
<v Speaker 1>drive around Murphy Dome recreational area. The group then dropped

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00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:36.440
<v Speaker 1>Sophie off at Barlot Hall just before midnight. Once back

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00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:40.039
<v Speaker 1>at the dorms, Sophie met up with Shirley. At some point,

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00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:43.119
<v Speaker 1>Sophie decided to go out for a smoke, and since

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<v Speaker 1>it was late at night in April in Alaska, it

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00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:48.839
<v Speaker 1>was still quite cold out in the middle of the night, right,

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00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:52.559
<v Speaker 1>so Sophie opted to use a woman's dorm bathroom instead,

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00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:55.359
<v Speaker 1>which was apparently a popular area for them to smoke.

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00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:57.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh yucky though, Hey.

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<v Speaker 1>Well you see, the bathroom had separate tubroom with an

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00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:04.200
<v Speaker 1>exhaust fan. Oh okay, okay, so it made it a

348
00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:05.880
<v Speaker 1>convenient spot because I mean, hey.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like it is like going kind of outside.

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00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:11.240
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, So you basically lock yourself in this room and

351
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:14.400
<v Speaker 1>it just exhausts out. It's basically like an anti hot box,

352
00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:17.519
<v Speaker 1>is what that was. I'm sure it still smell the cigarettes,

353
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<v Speaker 1>but I digress. Now. At about one thirty am, Sureley

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00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:23.759
<v Speaker 1>and her boyfriend decided to turn in for the night.

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<v Speaker 1>They were headed to her boyfriend's dorm, leaving the room

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00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:29.759
<v Speaker 1>two two seven at Barlett Hall empty because that was

357
00:18:29.799 --> 00:18:32.440
<v Speaker 1>around the time when Sophie had gone out for that smoke.

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<v Speaker 1>She hadn't returned yet, so Shirley left a note letting

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00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:38.559
<v Speaker 1>her know that they had gone, and the next morning,

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00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:42.240
<v Speaker 1>on Monday, April twenty sixth, nineteen ninety three, Shirley returned

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<v Speaker 1>to the dorm room at about eight fifty am and

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<v Speaker 1>immediately noticed something was wrong. Sophie was nowhere to be found.

363
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:52.480
<v Speaker 1>She clearly didn't even return.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh geez, oh my gosh, just the sinking feeling you

365
00:18:57.519 --> 00:18:57.960
<v Speaker 2>would get.

366
00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:02.440
<v Speaker 1>Yep, all her her baggage or clothing, her personal belongings,

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00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:05.359
<v Speaker 1>they were still exactly when they left. The note was

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00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:08.720
<v Speaker 1>still exactly where she left it. The bed hadn't been

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00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:13.000
<v Speaker 1>slept in. Concerned, Shirley checked the common areas of Barlot

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00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:15.519
<v Speaker 1>Hall but found no trace of her friend, and as

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00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:19.000
<v Speaker 1>the hours passed, her worry grew. Later that day, Shirley

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00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:21.200
<v Speaker 1>called Sophie's orthodontist to see if she had made it

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00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:24.039
<v Speaker 1>to her appointment, only to learn that Sophie had missed

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00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:29.400
<v Speaker 1>the appointment entirely. By then, Shirley knew something was seriously wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>At approximately two forty two that same day, a janitor

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00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:37.200
<v Speaker 1>was cleaning the women's bathroom on the second floor Barlet

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00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:42.599
<v Speaker 1>Hall and stumbled upon a horrific scene. Inside the small

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00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:45.920
<v Speaker 1>tub room adjacent to the shower stalls lay the lifeless

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<v Speaker 1>body of a young woman. So to paint a picture,

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00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:55.240
<v Speaker 1>I don't know the layout of this bathroom exactly, but

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00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:59.400
<v Speaker 1>by the sounds of it, as you have rows of showers, yeah,

382
00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:02.240
<v Speaker 1>and I'm assuming sins maybe on the opposite sides, that

383
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.839
<v Speaker 1>sort of thing, right, And then there is another room

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00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:08.400
<v Speaker 1>within this public bathroom.

385
00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:10.359
<v Speaker 2>To take a bath, to take a bath.

386
00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:13.000
<v Speaker 1>And that's where she was located. So you would have

387
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:16.240
<v Speaker 1>had students coming to and from all day so far,

388
00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:17.240
<v Speaker 1>showers no.

389
00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:19.599
<v Speaker 2>Idea that she's in there exactly.

390
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:24.720
<v Speaker 1>Campus police were immediately notified, and they brought in Alaska

391
00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:29.960
<v Speaker 1>State troopers immediately to begin the homicide investigation, or at

392
00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:32.720
<v Speaker 1>least investigation, but it would turn out to be homicide.

393
00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:36.640
<v Speaker 1>Officers quickly secured the scene and began canvassing in the area,

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00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:39.400
<v Speaker 1>interviewing students and staff in the hopes of finding someone

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00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.200
<v Speaker 1>who might have seen or heard something that could explain

396
00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:46.000
<v Speaker 1>what happened. Word of the discovery spread quickly around campus,

397
00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:48.880
<v Speaker 1>and it wasn't before long that surely heard rumors that

398
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:51.559
<v Speaker 1>a body was found in the woman's bathroom on the

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00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:53.559
<v Speaker 1>second floor of Barlott Hall.

400
00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:55.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh No.

401
00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:59.759
<v Speaker 1>Panicked, Shirley and her boyfriend rushed back to her dorm,

402
00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:03.920
<v Speaker 1>but were stopped by police at the entrance. When officers

403
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:07.240
<v Speaker 1>questioned them, Shirley told them about Sophie being missing and

404
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:10.720
<v Speaker 1>explained that Sophie had actually been previously supposed to be

405
00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:14.599
<v Speaker 1>spending the night in her dorm. She led officers back

406
00:21:14.599 --> 00:21:18.440
<v Speaker 1>to her room and then showed investigators Sophie's ID card.

407
00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:21.799
<v Speaker 1>With this ID card, they were able to get a

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00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:25.759
<v Speaker 1>positive identity on a young woman found dead. It was Sophie. Surgery.

409
00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:31.680
<v Speaker 2>Hmmm, that is just that, okay, I don't know. I

410
00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:34.400
<v Speaker 2>feel like this is just a scenario or a location

411
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:38.720
<v Speaker 2>that something like this shouldn't be happening, Like you shouldn't

412
00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:41.759
<v Speaker 2>be having a well she's not a student at the time,

413
00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:44.839
<v Speaker 2>but she was and like a young woman murdered in

414
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:48.079
<v Speaker 2>africing dorm room bathroom, Like are you kidding me? Here?

415
00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:50.960
<v Speaker 1>I agree? And now, the only way I think that

416
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:54.480
<v Speaker 1>this should have happened, just because Devil's advocate here, right,

417
00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:59.480
<v Speaker 1>is the murderer should be another person staying in the

418
00:21:59.480 --> 00:21:59.960
<v Speaker 1>dorm rooms.

419
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, I guess that could logically make a little

420
00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:03.960
<v Speaker 2>bit more sense.

421
00:22:04.039 --> 00:22:09.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, someone with authorized access to the dorm. Yeah, but

422
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:11.680
<v Speaker 1>as we know in the history, it sounds like it's

423
00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:13.400
<v Speaker 1>very likely it's probably not.

424
00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:15.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it could be anyone that just kind of like

425
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:16.519
<v Speaker 2>walked in there.

426
00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:20.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So the details of Sophie's murder were deeply disturbing.

427
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:23.640
<v Speaker 1>Her body was discovered laying on her back in the bathtub,

428
00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:27.559
<v Speaker 1>her legs together and bent to her left. Her feet

429
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:29.440
<v Speaker 1>were in contact with the bottom of the tub, and

430
00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:32.480
<v Speaker 1>she was still wearing her shoes and socks. However, her

431
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:35.200
<v Speaker 1>pants and underwear had been pulled down past her knees,

432
00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:38.799
<v Speaker 1>and her sweater was pushed up around her neck and armpit.

433
00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:40.640
<v Speaker 2>Duh.

434
00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:42.839
<v Speaker 1>The right cup of her bra had been pulled up,

435
00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:46.079
<v Speaker 1>exposing her right breast, and her left cheek rested against

436
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:49.039
<v Speaker 1>the bottom of the tub over the drain, and her

437
00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:51.240
<v Speaker 1>arms were stretched above her head.

438
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:53.720
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit, Yeah, she was.

439
00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:58.960
<v Speaker 1>Laying right below the water Spigott investigators noted multiple stab

440
00:22:59.000 --> 00:23:01.839
<v Speaker 1>wounds on the right side of Sophie's face, and her

441
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:05.720
<v Speaker 1>face was covered in blood. Her hair and clothing were damp,

442
00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:08.400
<v Speaker 1>which suggested that the water had been running excuse me

443
00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:11.759
<v Speaker 1>in the tub after she had been placed there, And

444
00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:14.359
<v Speaker 1>most chillingly, when Sophie's body was removed from the bathtub,

445
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:16.839
<v Speaker 1>the investigators discovered that she had been shot in the

446
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:18.279
<v Speaker 1>back of the head.

447
00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:22.200
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit. Yes, okay, I don't know why, but I

448
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:25.319
<v Speaker 2>didn't think that would be the like the cause of death.

449
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:28.079
<v Speaker 1>Yep, she was shot in the back of the head.

450
00:23:29.160 --> 00:23:32.240
<v Speaker 1>Now we've talked about I mean, honestly, like you're in

451
00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:34.480
<v Speaker 1>a well populated dorm room. So one of the first

452
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:36.359
<v Speaker 1>questions is how did no one hear the show?

453
00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:37.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Right, Yeah.

454
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:40.759
<v Speaker 1>Something that we talked about many times on this podcast

455
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:47.400
<v Speaker 1>is the twenty two caliber bullet. It's infamous for being

456
00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:51.319
<v Speaker 1>a mobster's gangster's choice of weapon back in the day

457
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:55.759
<v Speaker 1>because of many things, one of them being it's quiet. Yep,

458
00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:58.960
<v Speaker 1>twenty two calibers. Though they do make a bang, they're

459
00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:01.079
<v Speaker 1>still allowed there not going to make a bang of

460
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:04.240
<v Speaker 1>any handgun that you can think of. It's quite quiet

461
00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:05.079
<v Speaker 1>in consideration.

462
00:24:05.519 --> 00:24:08.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean too, if it's just one say you're this,

463
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:11.400
<v Speaker 2>you're hearing this, I don't know, You're probably not gonna

464
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:14.119
<v Speaker 2>right away think, oh my gosh, that was like a shot,

465
00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:16.640
<v Speaker 2>Like you're gonna make excuses thinking that it was some

466
00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:17.519
<v Speaker 2>sort of other noise.

467
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Right, what was that? Yeah, someone drops something? Who knows? Yeah,

468
00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:24.000
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, that is a piece of information that does

469
00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:26.519
<v Speaker 1>later come out that it is a twenty two caliber bullet.

470
00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:29.160
<v Speaker 1>I did kind of want to mention it here because

471
00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:31.559
<v Speaker 1>I do think it's important because that red flag immediately

472
00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:32.960
<v Speaker 1>comes up. Why didn't anyone hear it?

473
00:24:33.079 --> 00:24:33.240
<v Speaker 2>Well?

474
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:38.119
<v Speaker 1>Possibly because of that beneath her body in the drain

475
00:24:38.200 --> 00:24:42.519
<v Speaker 1>of the tub, they also discovered Sophie's cigarette lighter. Some

476
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:44.680
<v Speaker 1>of the stab wounds they were able to determine were

477
00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:50.680
<v Speaker 1>post and some were pre death. Authorities quickly announced Sophie's

478
00:24:50.680 --> 00:24:53.960
<v Speaker 1>identity to the public, confirming that her death was being

479
00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:59.319
<v Speaker 1>investigated as a homicide. The murder sent shockwaves through the campus.

480
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:02.680
<v Speaker 1>Little killings had just taken place less than twenty feet

481
00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:05.640
<v Speaker 1>from where their students were sleeping, leaving the entire community

482
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:08.960
<v Speaker 1>in disbelief. Both students and parents began questioning the safety

483
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:13.359
<v Speaker 1>of the dormitories, and the atmosphere and campus grew increasingly tense.

484
00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:17.799
<v Speaker 1>Within days, around sixty students packed up and moved at

485
00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:18.640
<v Speaker 1>a barlet hall.

486
00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:21.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, how on earth can you feel safe after that?

487
00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:25.759
<v Speaker 1>Exactly? Despite the fact that there was still one week

488
00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:30.599
<v Speaker 1>remaining of the semester, some sought housing and other dorms,

489
00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:34.119
<v Speaker 1>while others chose to stay off campus altogether. But on

490
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:37.880
<v Speaker 1>April twenty eighth, nineteen ninety three, Sophie's autopsy was performed

491
00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:41.079
<v Speaker 1>in Anchorage, Alaska. The findings confirmed that she'd been killed

492
00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:43.039
<v Speaker 1>by a single gunshot to the back of the head.

493
00:25:43.640 --> 00:25:47.000
<v Speaker 1>The bullet, a critical piece of evidence, was recovered from

494
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:51.359
<v Speaker 1>her skull and preserved. The autopsy was also revealed that

495
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:54.160
<v Speaker 1>Sophie had been stabbed multiple times, specifically in the right

496
00:25:54.200 --> 00:25:57.359
<v Speaker 1>corner of her right eye while she was still alive.

497
00:25:57.759 --> 00:25:58.559
<v Speaker 2>What the shit.

498
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:02.480
<v Speaker 1>Other stab wound found on her right cheek, which appeared

499
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:06.880
<v Speaker 1>to have been inflicted postpartum, post mortem post mortem.

500
00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:11.599
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but what the hell? That just seems so I

501
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:14.200
<v Speaker 2>don't know, stabbing the face seems like something you don't

502
00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:15.400
<v Speaker 2>hear often.

503
00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:19.839
<v Speaker 1>Really, no, definitely don't. It's I mean, there's not. There

504
00:26:19.920 --> 00:26:22.000
<v Speaker 1>is some soft tissue on top, but there's just nothing

505
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:28.240
<v Speaker 1>about bone underneath, right, So yeah, it's an interesting choice.

506
00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:30.880
<v Speaker 1>These injuries were consistent with the use of a thin

507
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:35.079
<v Speaker 1>bladed knife, and my guess is most likely it was

508
00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:38.960
<v Speaker 1>used to subdue the individual in the struggle. Oh okay,

509
00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:44.000
<v Speaker 1>potentially in an attempt to like blind her maybe, m I see,

510
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:44.960
<v Speaker 1>that's my guess.

511
00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:47.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean that does make sense now.

512
00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:51.720
<v Speaker 1>Additional abrasions were discovered on Sophie's abdomen and right hip,

513
00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:54.880
<v Speaker 1>along with the bruise on her right knee. However, toxicology

514
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:59.000
<v Speaker 1>reports showed no sign of drug or alcohol in her system.

515
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:02.920
<v Speaker 1>I mated a grim picture of Sophie's final moments and

516
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:05.000
<v Speaker 1>of course a brutal attack.

517
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Well I'm assuming too, she also like sexually assaulted, just

518
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:10.440
<v Speaker 2>like the way that she was found.

519
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:13.359
<v Speaker 1>And the next line I have written as part of

520
00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:17.240
<v Speaker 1>the autopsy, a rape kit was administered and DNA evidence

521
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:18.240
<v Speaker 1>was collected.

522
00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:22.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like just brutal, like a brutal, brutal attack, brutal

523
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:23.519
<v Speaker 2>way to die.

524
00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:27.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Now we aren't talking nineteen ninety three here, and

525
00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:30.079
<v Speaker 1>Alaska at the time did not have the technology to

526
00:27:30.200 --> 00:27:35.200
<v Speaker 1>process DNA and criminal investigations. So while this evidence collected,

527
00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:39.440
<v Speaker 1>this DNA couldn't immediately help identify Sophie's killer, preserving it

528
00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:42.319
<v Speaker 1>could potentially prove to be vital if they did so.

529
00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:45.920
<v Speaker 1>And so it's good that they did that because it

530
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:47.640
<v Speaker 1>became a very key.

531
00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:50.240
<v Speaker 2>Piece in that good they're thinking ahead.

532
00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:54.920
<v Speaker 1>They were, So despite investigator's best efforts, the case was

533
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:58.519
<v Speaker 1>progressing extremely slowly. The semester was coming to an end.

534
00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:00.640
<v Speaker 1>If you mentioned, I mentioned there was only a week left,

535
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:03.440
<v Speaker 1>and students were preparing to leave campus for the summer,

536
00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:07.400
<v Speaker 1>and they already had sixty students move off, move off

537
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:11.000
<v Speaker 1>campus or different dormitories or whatever. So you already have

538
00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:15.279
<v Speaker 1>potential witnesses gone, and in a week's time they're all

539
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:17.759
<v Speaker 1>going to be gone. So it created a sense of

540
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:20.839
<v Speaker 1>urgency for investigators who are working tirelessly to gather as

541
00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:26.160
<v Speaker 1>much information as possible before students actually left the campus

542
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:30.519
<v Speaker 1>campus for witnesses and clues, managing to cleet fingerprints, hairs,

543
00:28:31.079 --> 00:28:33.920
<v Speaker 1>hair samples, and other bits of evidence from the crime scene.

544
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:38.119
<v Speaker 1>Now remember this is a public bathroom, so it's who's

545
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:42.400
<v Speaker 1>to say whose it is and if it's relevance, right, Yeah,

546
00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:46.519
<v Speaker 1>and none of this evidence immediately pointed to a suspect. Now,

547
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:49.920
<v Speaker 1>Sergeant Jim McCann, one of the lead investigators on the case,

548
00:28:49.960 --> 00:28:53.920
<v Speaker 1>believe that Sophie's murderer was sorry murder was the result

549
00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:57.799
<v Speaker 1>of extreme rage. He theorized that the killer likely harbored

550
00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:01.359
<v Speaker 1>a deep anger towards women, and that Sophie had tragically

551
00:29:01.359 --> 00:29:04.279
<v Speaker 1>become a target simply because she was in the wrong

552
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:06.039
<v Speaker 1>place at the wrong time.

553
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:08.839
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I sort of wondered this too, with the whole

554
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:11.920
<v Speaker 2>like face cutting, like it was almost you know, like

555
00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:16.240
<v Speaker 2>destroying the way that she looked and stuff. In a sense,

556
00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:17.799
<v Speaker 2>I was wondering something like that.

557
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:20.359
<v Speaker 1>But which is very very likely because I mean there

558
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:25.839
<v Speaker 1>were some posts yeah mortem as well, so maybe it

559
00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:28.440
<v Speaker 1>explains it in the struggle at the beginning, But after

560
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:30.319
<v Speaker 1>being shot in the back of the head, why would

561
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:31.880
<v Speaker 1>she be stabbed again in the face.

562
00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:34.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like mutilating the way that she looked like in

563
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:35.759
<v Speaker 2>her appearance.

564
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:40.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, McCann was convicted. Sorry. Convinced that the killer

565
00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:43.359
<v Speaker 1>was a man who was familiar with the UAF campus,

566
00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:46.319
<v Speaker 1>someone who blended in well enough to move around unnoticed.

567
00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:49.200
<v Speaker 1>He suggested that there was even a fifty percent chance

568
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:52.240
<v Speaker 1>that the perpetrator had already left Fairbanks and returned to

569
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:54.559
<v Speaker 1>his hometown for the summer, making it even harder to

570
00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:58.319
<v Speaker 1>track him down. He also wore in the public that

571
00:29:58.359 --> 00:30:02.440
<v Speaker 1>the killer had showed a disturbingly level disturbing I'm getting

572
00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:06.119
<v Speaker 1>words mixed up today, I'm sorry, disturbing level of premeditation

573
00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:09.119
<v Speaker 1>by bringing a gun to the scene. He already had

574
00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:12.400
<v Speaker 1>the gun on him, So he believed whoever was committing

575
00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:15.920
<v Speaker 1>this crime, or committed it, had likely fantasized about such

576
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:18.960
<v Speaker 1>acts before ever actually have making this attack.

577
00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:24.039
<v Speaker 2>He'll like, you mean, like arriving knowing what he was

578
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:26.599
<v Speaker 2>kind of about to do if the opportunity was there.

579
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:29.359
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's likely he's saying A that he fantasized about

580
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:32.839
<v Speaker 1>doing this and b premeditated doing it before going to

581
00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:35.240
<v Speaker 1>do it. So it's like, I want to do this,

582
00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:36.759
<v Speaker 1>I want to do this one day. I'm going to

583
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:38.839
<v Speaker 1>do this today, I'm fucking doing.

584
00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:41.000
<v Speaker 2>YEAP came prepared, opportunity was there.

585
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:44.799
<v Speaker 1>He urged anyone who noticed a man acting strangely or

586
00:30:44.839 --> 00:30:47.079
<v Speaker 1>suspiciously around the time of the murder to come forward

587
00:30:47.079 --> 00:30:51.759
<v Speaker 1>with any sort of information, but despite law enforcement's best efforts,

588
00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:56.119
<v Speaker 1>Sophie's case went cold. Even the offer of twenty thousand

589
00:30:56.200 --> 00:30:59.920
<v Speaker 1>dollars reward for information failed to generate any significant leads.

590
00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:03.400
<v Speaker 1>There were, of course, some leads and stuff, some people,

591
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:06.599
<v Speaker 1>you know, saying that they heard a noise, a few

592
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:09.799
<v Speaker 1>little things like that, but nothing really significant ever came.

593
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:13.240
<v Speaker 1>Over time, mentions of her case faded from the local news,

594
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:16.680
<v Speaker 1>and the tragic loss of Sophie became a painful, unresolved

595
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:20.759
<v Speaker 1>chapter for her family and the university. In the years

596
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:24.640
<v Speaker 1>following her murder, UAF began making improvements to campus security,

597
00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:29.119
<v Speaker 1>but for her family, those changes came too late. In

598
00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:32.039
<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety five, Sophie's family filed a four million dollar

599
00:31:32.119 --> 00:31:36.119
<v Speaker 1>lawsuit against UAF, accusing the university of negligence for failing

600
00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:41.359
<v Speaker 1>to provide adequate security in the dormitories. Their attorney argued

601
00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:45.440
<v Speaker 1>that Barlott Hall was widely known as a party house,

602
00:31:45.480 --> 00:31:48.480
<v Speaker 1>where people could come and go freely without being checked

603
00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:51.160
<v Speaker 1>or monitored. There were no systems in place to track

604
00:31:51.200 --> 00:31:54.039
<v Speaker 1>who was entering or leaving the dorms, which created an

605
00:31:54.079 --> 00:32:00.640
<v Speaker 1>environment where unauthorized individuals could wander undetected. The university's attorney

606
00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:04.519
<v Speaker 1>countered that the blame for Sophie's desk death rested solely

607
00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:08.839
<v Speaker 1>with her killer, not the institution. In an attempt to

608
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:12.920
<v Speaker 1>shift responsibility, the defense even suggested that Sophie's own actions

609
00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:16.680
<v Speaker 1>had contributed to her tragic death, an argument that of course,

610
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:18.039
<v Speaker 1>deeply angered.

611
00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:20.440
<v Speaker 2>Her Femily, Oh my, well, I mean he chose that

612
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:22.480
<v Speaker 2>location to commit this for a reason.

613
00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:24.240
<v Speaker 1>He did once one hundred percent.

614
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:27.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that is yeah, I don't that's ridiculous.

615
00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:34.160
<v Speaker 1>Yes. Now, Unfortunately, the lawsuit had unintended consequences. As legal

616
00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:38.000
<v Speaker 1>proceedings moved forward, sensitive information about the case was released

617
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:41.400
<v Speaker 1>to the public, details that should have been remained confidential.

618
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:44.640
<v Speaker 1>Details that hey, maybe the killer might only know, and

619
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:47.200
<v Speaker 1>if they got the questionings and stuff correctly, you know,

620
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:49.759
<v Speaker 1>it might have been able to draw from someone. But

621
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:53.680
<v Speaker 1>it became public knowledge, and this disclosure muddied the investigation,

622
00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:56.720
<v Speaker 1>complicating the efforts to solve this case.

623
00:32:57.160 --> 00:32:57.640
<v Speaker 2>Awesome.

624
00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:04.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now I don't know the actual result of that lawsuit,

625
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:06.839
<v Speaker 1>but what I do know is as the years passed,

626
00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:10.400
<v Speaker 1>her case just remained unsolved and her family was left

627
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:14.039
<v Speaker 1>waiting for justice to finally be served. By the late

628
00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:17.799
<v Speaker 1>nineteen nineties, advancement in DNA technology offered a glimmer of

629
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:21.799
<v Speaker 1>hope for Sophie's case. The biological evidence collected from Sophie's

630
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:26.119
<v Speaker 1>body in nineteen ninety three was re examined and an

631
00:33:26.119 --> 00:33:29.559
<v Speaker 1>early DNA profile was created at the Alaska State Crime Lab.

632
00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:32.480
<v Speaker 1>While this was a step forward, the technology of the

633
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:35.720
<v Speaker 1>time still required law enforcement to compare the unknown DNA

634
00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:41.400
<v Speaker 1>profile to individual suspects one by one, painstaking and time

635
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:46.400
<v Speaker 1>consuming process can basically, it's a needle in a hayesack search. Yes,

636
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:48.880
<v Speaker 1>you have a DNA profile, who you goeing to compare

637
00:33:48.920 --> 00:33:51.240
<v Speaker 1>it to? Yeah, well, this guy's our suspect. Do we

638
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:54.440
<v Speaker 1>have as DNA we do, Let's compare the two. That's

639
00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:58.519
<v Speaker 1>all you can do, one person by one person, And

640
00:33:58.599 --> 00:34:01.799
<v Speaker 1>none of the DNA comparisons canducted during this period yielded

641
00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:08.920
<v Speaker 1>any matches, leaving investigators frustrated and at a complete dead end. Then,

642
00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:11.960
<v Speaker 1>in May of two thousand, another breakthrough in forensic science

643
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:15.920
<v Speaker 1>brought a renewed hope to Sophie's case. The biological sample

644
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:19.840
<v Speaker 1>from Sophie's body was processed using a more advanced DNA

645
00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:24.280
<v Speaker 1>analysis method and uploaded to the Combined DNA Index System

646
00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:29.079
<v Speaker 1>or also known as CODIS. Unlike the older approach, COTIS

647
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:32.800
<v Speaker 1>allowed investigators to compare an unknown DNA profile against a

648
00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:36.800
<v Speaker 1>vast database of DNA profiles. So basically, whatever we have

649
00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:39.760
<v Speaker 1>in our system, we can run it against those, right yep.

650
00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:44.320
<v Speaker 1>But Sophie's DNA profile was run and the results were disheartening.

651
00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:48.840
<v Speaker 1>No matches were found. Basically, this guy had no history clearly,

652
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:51.960
<v Speaker 1>so as DNA hadn't been put in the system. So

653
00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:56.079
<v Speaker 1>he's someone who we just haven't had arrested and gotten

654
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:57.079
<v Speaker 1>DNA from before.

655
00:34:57.719 --> 00:35:00.239
<v Speaker 2>Here you have like such high hopes, right, there's still

656
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:03.719
<v Speaker 2>continuing with investigating, which is amazing, and then these events

657
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:05.679
<v Speaker 2>is you're like, oh, man, like maybe this will be

658
00:35:05.719 --> 00:35:09.000
<v Speaker 2>our break and then just like complete letdown. You know.

659
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:13.119
<v Speaker 1>True, though, there is a bright side to this because

660
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:17.440
<v Speaker 1>the killer's DNA was now in the profile, so if

661
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:19.360
<v Speaker 1>he was ever to do something else, and his DNA

662
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:20.880
<v Speaker 1>put in, Oh yeah, then.

663
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Go yeah, so I mean, yeah, he better make sure

664
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:27.000
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't fuck up again at all or ruin someone's

665
00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:28.239
<v Speaker 2>life again exactly.

666
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:31.719
<v Speaker 1>So it's basically a waiting game at this point, and

667
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:34.760
<v Speaker 1>the years since her death basically turned into decades, and

668
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Sophie's case became one of Alaska's most well known cold cases,

669
00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:46.519
<v Speaker 1>but still investigators followed leads over the years. So in

670
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:49.639
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and nine, in a renewed effort to generate leads,

671
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:54.000
<v Speaker 1>investigators released new details about Sophie's case. They published photos

672
00:35:54.000 --> 00:35:55.639
<v Speaker 1>of the clothing she had been wearing the night of

673
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:58.760
<v Speaker 1>the murder, including her brightly colored sweater, and asked the

674
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:02.199
<v Speaker 1>public for any information. They specifically wanted to hear from

675
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:04.840
<v Speaker 1>anyone who might have seen Sophie that night while she

676
00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:07.519
<v Speaker 1>smoked and maybe chatted with other students outside of the dorms.

677
00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:12.079
<v Speaker 1>Investigators hope this push might jog someone's memory, but the

678
00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:16.480
<v Speaker 1>results were minimal and the case still was cold. Then

679
00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:20.280
<v Speaker 1>in twenty ten, the next year, a name from the

680
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:26.280
<v Speaker 1>original investigation resurfaced, Nicholas Daser. Now Nicholas was a former

681
00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:28.880
<v Speaker 1>UAF student who had been living in Barlett Hall. At

682
00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:32.239
<v Speaker 1>the time of Sophie's murder, he and his roommate, Stephen Downs,

683
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:34.840
<v Speaker 1>had both lived on the third floor in room three

684
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:38.440
<v Speaker 1>h five. Back in nineteen ninety three, both men were

685
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:41.880
<v Speaker 1>briefly interviewed as part of the initial investigation. At the time,

686
00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:44.559
<v Speaker 1>they denied having any sort of knowledge of Sophie's murder

687
00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:48.679
<v Speaker 1>or anything suspicious that might have happened that night. Now,

688
00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:53.800
<v Speaker 1>Nicholas wasn't just a student at UAF. In fact, in

689
00:36:53.880 --> 00:36:56.159
<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety three, he was also working as a campus

690
00:36:56.199 --> 00:36:59.440
<v Speaker 1>security guard. He'd even been on duty the night of

691
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.639
<v Speaker 1>Sophie's murder and had helped police secure the crime scene

692
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:07.599
<v Speaker 1>the very next day. However, shortly after the murder, Nicholas

693
00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:09.679
<v Speaker 1>lost his job as a security guard when it was

694
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:13.079
<v Speaker 1>discovered that he had violated campus rules by bringing a

695
00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:14.840
<v Speaker 1>firearm to his dorm room.

696
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:19.719
<v Speaker 2>What okay, and this wasn't picked up.

697
00:37:21.639 --> 00:37:22.039
<v Speaker 1>Correct?

698
00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:25.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay? Well, I mean different people have the knowledge. I

699
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:29.119
<v Speaker 2>guess it's thought not to give that to the police.

700
00:37:29.199 --> 00:37:31.760
<v Speaker 1>Auto basically it was never reported to police.

701
00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay.

702
00:37:34.119 --> 00:37:38.039
<v Speaker 1>So this firearm detail prompt that was now brought to

703
00:37:38.119 --> 00:37:41.280
<v Speaker 1>light prompted investigators to take a closer look into Nicholas.

704
00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:45.639
<v Speaker 1>When questioned again, he confirmed that yes, he had been

705
00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:48.480
<v Speaker 1>fired for owning a gun, but insisted that he'd never

706
00:37:48.519 --> 00:37:50.679
<v Speaker 1>owned a twenty two caliber gun, which was the type

707
00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:54.199
<v Speaker 1>of weapon used to kill Sophie. However, during the interview

708
00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:58.840
<v Speaker 1>he mentioned that mentioned something that raised eyebrows. He claimed

709
00:37:58.880 --> 00:38:01.679
<v Speaker 1>that his roommate Stephen, did own a gun in nineteen

710
00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:05.559
<v Speaker 1>ninety three, specifically an H and R Model twenty two

711
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:12.440
<v Speaker 1>caliber revolver. This piece of information reignited interest in the case.

712
00:38:13.639 --> 00:38:17.360
<v Speaker 1>Forensic scientist Deborah Gillis, a firearms expert, reviewed the bullet

713
00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:20.679
<v Speaker 1>recovered from Sophie's body and confirmed that its markings were

714
00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:23.360
<v Speaker 1>consistent with those made by an H and R twenty

715
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:27.599
<v Speaker 1>two caliber revolver. However, the firing pattern on the bullet

716
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:32.480
<v Speaker 1>was pretty broad and generic to a so bringing this

717
00:38:32.519 --> 00:38:36.719
<v Speaker 1>link specifically to this gun didn't really do much. Okay,

718
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:40.679
<v Speaker 1>So investigators couldn't really move forward. They didn't have the

719
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:44.639
<v Speaker 1>actual gun or anything, and it was just kind of

720
00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:49.280
<v Speaker 1>something that trailed off. So despite this intriguing new lead,

721
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:52.679
<v Speaker 1>it just seems like they were right back to square

722
00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:56.880
<v Speaker 1>one with not much to go on. It was in

723
00:38:56.920 --> 00:39:01.360
<v Speaker 1>twenty eighteen, when a groundbreaking development final only once again

724
00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:03.119
<v Speaker 1>reignited the investigation.

725
00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:05.760
<v Speaker 2>If it's one of these fucking pieces of shit, I'm

726
00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:08.960
<v Speaker 2>gonna be pissed, you think, because it's like they have

727
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:12.440
<v Speaker 2>been interviewed or thought of now like twice, and it's

728
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:14.559
<v Speaker 2>like they're just living their goddamn life.

729
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:16.840
<v Speaker 1>But the problem is they can't be. No one has

730
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:20.159
<v Speaker 1>been able to be tied to it yet. So say that, yes,

731
00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:24.480
<v Speaker 1>he did have this gun. Say, for example, it was

732
00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:28.679
<v Speaker 1>the exact match for the bullet found in her body.

733
00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:31.880
<v Speaker 1>We all know, and it's very common saying you need

734
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:36.320
<v Speaker 1>a smoking gun, right, They literally didn't have a gun?

735
00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:38.440
<v Speaker 2>No? Yeah, no, get that.

736
00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:41.960
<v Speaker 1>Someone said he had a gun. They approach him. We

737
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:45.039
<v Speaker 1>heard you had a gun. No I didn't. Can we search? Sure,

738
00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:47.639
<v Speaker 1>I don't have no gun? They say they search. I

739
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:49.480
<v Speaker 1>don't know if they did, But say they search his house,

740
00:39:49.559 --> 00:39:51.239
<v Speaker 1>they find no gun. What have they got on them?

741
00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:51.880
<v Speaker 2>No?

742
00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:57.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he doesn't have the murder weapon available and investigators

743
00:39:57.119 --> 00:39:59.679
<v Speaker 1>can't sit here and start looking at it or anything.

744
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:02.000
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, well, I know they're in a tough spot

745
00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:02.480
<v Speaker 2>for sure.

746
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:07.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah I get your pain and anger, trust me. But unfortunately,

747
00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:10.400
<v Speaker 1>there's just nothing that the investigators can do. What they

748
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:14.800
<v Speaker 1>need is a DNA link. Unfortunately, now, thankfully, as I

749
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:18.960
<v Speaker 1>was mentioning in twenty eighteen of groundbreaking development finally reignited

750
00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:22.440
<v Speaker 1>the investigation once again. And this was from a Virginia

751
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:30.679
<v Speaker 1>based laboratory specializing in the genealogical databases. So basically, they

752
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:33.719
<v Speaker 1>enlisted the help to identify They enlist the help to

753
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:38.119
<v Speaker 1>identify potential suspects in decade old cases. The lab uses

754
00:40:38.199 --> 00:40:41.400
<v Speaker 1>a technique that's become increasingly well known, something that we've

755
00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:44.840
<v Speaker 1>talked about on this podcast a few times now, with

756
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:48.440
<v Speaker 1>this process involving using DNA from crime scenes to build

757
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:51.800
<v Speaker 1>a family tree, often by comparing it to DNA profiles

758
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:53.360
<v Speaker 1>uploaded by the.

759
00:40:53.360 --> 00:40:55.639
<v Speaker 2>Public somewhere, yeah, on their own will.

760
00:40:55.880 --> 00:40:58.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So if you go to like ged match or

761
00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:04.079
<v Speaker 1>some like ancestry platform and ancestry dot com. So if

762
00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:06.679
<v Speaker 1>I were to upload my DNA there trying to see

763
00:41:06.679 --> 00:41:08.360
<v Speaker 1>the family tree and all that sort of stuff, police

764
00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:11.400
<v Speaker 1>can now access that database and if my cousin committed

765
00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:14.280
<v Speaker 1>a murder, they might be able to connect my cousin's

766
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:18.840
<v Speaker 1>DNA through family tree building because I put mine online.

767
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:21.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Which it's so interesting, really well.

768
00:41:21.559 --> 00:41:26.440
<v Speaker 1>In all honesty, many people suspect that platforms like ancestry

769
00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:29.920
<v Speaker 1>dot com were put out there for this purpose.

770
00:41:30.280 --> 00:41:32.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well really that would just be brilliant.

771
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:36.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, one hundred percent, whether it was though on purpose,

772
00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:38.440
<v Speaker 1>or whether it's just you know, a happy byproduct of

773
00:41:38.559 --> 00:41:41.880
<v Speaker 1>the platforms, they're able to do this, And on October tenth,

774
00:41:41.960 --> 00:41:45.480
<v Speaker 1>twenty eighteen, the lab contacted Alaska State Troopers to report

775
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:48.800
<v Speaker 1>they had actually successfully created a DNA profile for the

776
00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:53.440
<v Speaker 1>suspect and uploaded it to the public genealogy database. The

777
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:57.880
<v Speaker 1>results were promising. They found two matches to the individual

778
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:01.800
<v Speaker 1>who were likely second cousin or closer, and a third

779
00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:05.400
<v Speaker 1>match who was likely third cousins or closer. So with

780
00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:08.880
<v Speaker 1>this lead in hand, the lab began this painstaking process

781
00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:12.800
<v Speaker 1>of building the suspect's family tree, working backwards from these

782
00:42:12.840 --> 00:42:16.039
<v Speaker 1>genetic connections, trying to see if they could find who

783
00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:20.880
<v Speaker 1>would likely match the DNA. By December eighteenth, twenty eighteen,

784
00:42:21.320 --> 00:42:25.320
<v Speaker 1>the lab had made a major breakthrough. They informed investigator

785
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:30.199
<v Speaker 1>Michael McFerrin that they had identified a likely relative of

786
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:35.320
<v Speaker 1>the suspect. The data revealed a relationship equivalent of half sibling,

787
00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:38.159
<v Speaker 1>such as like an aunt or an aunt to a

788
00:42:38.199 --> 00:42:42.159
<v Speaker 1>nephew or a grandmother to a grandson that close. Okay, well,

789
00:42:42.519 --> 00:42:45.880
<v Speaker 1>so they found a specific individual who is related to

790
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:47.920
<v Speaker 1>this person that closely.

791
00:42:48.360 --> 00:42:50.000
<v Speaker 2>Dan, dang, here we go.

792
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:55.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so they auditionally found that because of the suspect

793
00:42:55.800 --> 00:43:00.280
<v Speaker 1>in this relative, this sorry, suspect and this relative shared

794
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:03.360
<v Speaker 1>the same X chromosome in the DNA that they were

795
00:43:03.400 --> 00:43:06.679
<v Speaker 1>able to determine the suspect was likely on the mother's

796
00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:10.719
<v Speaker 1>side of the family. So using all of this breakdown,

797
00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:14.599
<v Speaker 1>basically what happened is they were able to identify the

798
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:20.480
<v Speaker 1>ant of the murder murderer whoa hey, the ant had

799
00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:24.199
<v Speaker 1>uploaded her DNA to a platform like ancestry dot com

800
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:26.960
<v Speaker 1>and because of that, they were able to fit down

801
00:43:27.320 --> 00:43:30.960
<v Speaker 1>that this individual was the man by the name of

802
00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:32.360
<v Speaker 1>Stephen Downs.

803
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, of course.

804
00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:39.199
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, so sorry, that DNA stuff, it's really complicated

805
00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:41.199
<v Speaker 1>to talk about. I don't even fully understand it, so

806
00:43:41.199 --> 00:43:44.440
<v Speaker 1>it's a bit muddled through that. But Stephen Downs is

807
00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:47.440
<v Speaker 1>the suspect, and Stephen Downs was reported to be the

808
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:50.760
<v Speaker 1>one with the twenty two caliber revolver at.

809
00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:55.639
<v Speaker 2>The Yeah, dang, I mean, yeah, better late than never,

810
00:43:55.719 --> 00:43:58.800
<v Speaker 2>But that's how I struggle with that when they literally

811
00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:01.119
<v Speaker 2>get to live like so many years.

812
00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:01.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

813
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:02.599
<v Speaker 2>Now.

814
00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:05.199
<v Speaker 1>Stephen was born in August thirty first, nineteen seventy four,

815
00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:07.559
<v Speaker 1>in Maine, where he grew up and later graduated from

816
00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:10.559
<v Speaker 1>high school in June of nineteen ninety two. That fall,

817
00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:13.199
<v Speaker 1>he left Maine to attend college at the University of

818
00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:16.559
<v Speaker 1>Alaska and Fairbanks. At just eighteen years old, he was

819
00:44:16.599 --> 00:44:19.880
<v Speaker 1>living in Barlot Hall, the same dorm building where Sophie

820
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:24.599
<v Speaker 1>was murdered. Now, as he previously noted, Steven's roommate Nicholas Staser,

821
00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:27.679
<v Speaker 1>also lived in Barlot Hall at the time. After graduating

822
00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:31.000
<v Speaker 1>from UAF in nineteen ninety six, Stephen's life appeared to

823
00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:35.280
<v Speaker 1>be relatively uneventful. He spent some time in Arizona before

824
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:38.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, eventually returning to his home in Maine, where

825
00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:40.800
<v Speaker 1>he worked as a nurse in the city of Auburn.

826
00:44:41.920 --> 00:44:44.960
<v Speaker 1>He had no prior arrests, no criminal record, and no

827
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:47.639
<v Speaker 1>reason to be in any sort of law enforcement database.

828
00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:51.239
<v Speaker 2>This piece of shit was a nurse. Yeah, came to

829
00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:54.880
<v Speaker 2>become a nurse, correct and like okay, well, yeap.

830
00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:58.239
<v Speaker 1>This is why his DNA was never matched to the profile.

831
00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:01.039
<v Speaker 1>He never did anything, no criminal history. His DNA had

832
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:01.800
<v Speaker 1>never been entered.

833
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:04.400
<v Speaker 2>That's shocking to me that they would do that. He

834
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:07.400
<v Speaker 2>would do something like that, brutal and then just never

835
00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:08.719
<v Speaker 2>again do anything else.

836
00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:15.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So thankfully through genal I can't say this word today, genealogical,

837
00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:20.440
<v Speaker 1>there we go, DNA Stephen was finally identified as a suspect,

838
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:25.360
<v Speaker 1>and here we are, we have a breakthrough. Investigators have

839
00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:28.599
<v Speaker 1>the name, they have the individual. They knew he owned

840
00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:30.559
<v Speaker 1>that gun, but as far as I'm aware, they weren't

841
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:34.480
<v Speaker 1>able to find the murder weapon. But on February thirteenth,

842
00:45:34.519 --> 00:45:38.039
<v Speaker 1>twenty nineteen, after nearly twenty six years of dead ends

843
00:45:38.039 --> 00:45:42.719
<v Speaker 1>and unanswered questions, investigators finally confronted Stephen Downs. Working together

844
00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:46.079
<v Speaker 1>with Maine State Police and Alaska State Troopers, they interviewed

845
00:45:46.079 --> 00:45:49.760
<v Speaker 1>Stephen at his home in Auburn, Maine. During the interview,

846
00:45:50.239 --> 00:45:52.840
<v Speaker 1>Stephen acknowledged that a girl had been murdered at Barla

847
00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:57.920
<v Speaker 1>Hall during his time there, but he admitted he didn't

848
00:45:57.920 --> 00:46:00.760
<v Speaker 1>know her or even ever having content with her. Well,

849
00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:05.559
<v Speaker 1>of course, yeah, it wasn't me. When officers showed Stephen's photograph,

850
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:08.559
<v Speaker 1>sorry Stephen, photographs of Sophie, he claimed to recognize her,

851
00:46:08.599 --> 00:46:11.760
<v Speaker 1>but only from the missing person's photos and memorial posters

852
00:46:11.800 --> 00:46:13.679
<v Speaker 1>and stuff that had been put up around campus following

853
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:16.880
<v Speaker 1>her murder. He continued to deny, you know, ever meeting

854
00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:19.800
<v Speaker 1>her seeing her in person. He explained that he lived

855
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:22.199
<v Speaker 1>in the third floor Bartlett Hall and said that he

856
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:24.559
<v Speaker 1>spent much of his spare time visiting his girlfriend, who

857
00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:27.039
<v Speaker 1>lived on the fourth floor, so he claimed to have

858
00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:29.079
<v Speaker 1>no reason to ever go on the second floor whatsoever

859
00:46:29.079 --> 00:46:32.119
<v Speaker 1>where Sophie was even discovered, which Hey might have been

860
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:33.840
<v Speaker 1>part of. Is I'm going to go somewhere where I'm

861
00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:35.400
<v Speaker 1>not supposed to be or no one will ever suspect

862
00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:39.639
<v Speaker 1>that would be yeah right. The next day, February fourteenth,

863
00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:43.199
<v Speaker 1>twenty nineteen, a search warrant was executed at Stephen's home.

864
00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Investigators collected a swab of his DNA for comparison to

865
00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:49.880
<v Speaker 1>the DNA sample recovered from Sophie's body back in nineteen

866
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:53.519
<v Speaker 1>ninety three. When the results came back, there was no

867
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:57.719
<v Speaker 1>doubt Stephen Down's DNA was an exact match for the

868
00:46:57.800 --> 00:47:00.440
<v Speaker 1>DNA profile of Sophie's killer.

869
00:47:00.679 --> 00:47:04.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, wow, okay, like they were just like so

870
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:06.480
<v Speaker 2>close so many times? Really?

871
00:47:06.679 --> 00:47:06.960
<v Speaker 1>Yep?

872
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:12.199
<v Speaker 2>And then just didn't have didn't have enough exactly.

873
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:16.199
<v Speaker 1>Not only that his roommate was a security officer who

874
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:21.239
<v Speaker 1>helped secure the scene. Mm hm so, And if only

875
00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:25.880
<v Speaker 1>if only that security officer was like, hey, shit, she's

876
00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:28.559
<v Speaker 1>got a gunshot to the head. My roommate has a gun.

877
00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:31.519
<v Speaker 1>If only he drew those connections earlier.

878
00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:33.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, he might, like he might have though.

879
00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:36.599
<v Speaker 1>He may have your right, he may have been maybe.

880
00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:37.079
<v Speaker 2>He may have known.

881
00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:40.159
<v Speaker 1>He may have known suspect and hiding the trail. He

882
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:42.719
<v Speaker 1>may have been in denial too. He could never do that,

883
00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:43.320
<v Speaker 1>no way.

884
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:45.119
<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, yeah, there were friends like you would never

885
00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:48.000
<v Speaker 2>think that your friend is capable of something like that exactly.

886
00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:52.559
<v Speaker 1>So Now, on February fifteenth, twenty nineteen, Stephen Downs was

887
00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:55.719
<v Speaker 1>arrested and officially charged with the rape and murder of

888
00:47:55.800 --> 00:48:00.280
<v Speaker 1>Sophie Surgery. After decades of uncertainty, justice for Sophie was

889
00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:04.280
<v Speaker 1>finally within reach. The monumental breakthrough had been achieved through

890
00:48:04.280 --> 00:48:09.599
<v Speaker 1>the tireless work of dedicated investigators and advancements in DNA technology.

891
00:48:10.360 --> 00:48:13.559
<v Speaker 1>What had once seemed like an impossible case had finally

892
00:48:13.639 --> 00:48:19.119
<v Speaker 1>been solved almost thirty years later. So props to all

893
00:48:19.159 --> 00:48:22.599
<v Speaker 1>the investigators who never let this case go.

894
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. No, I mean like it's thirty years or so

895
00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:31.320
<v Speaker 2>down the road, but still, yeah, that more than never, right.

896
00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:33.880
<v Speaker 1>Twenty six years exactly? Well, I don't know exactly, but

897
00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:36.559
<v Speaker 1>it's twenty six years. Okay, I'm not sure the extra

898
00:48:36.639 --> 00:48:39.519
<v Speaker 1>days within, but it was twenty six years. So Stephen

899
00:48:39.639 --> 00:48:42.920
<v Speaker 1>was not I bailed bail, and in August of twenty nineteen,

900
00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:45.519
<v Speaker 1>he was extradited from Maine to Alaska to face the

901
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:49.599
<v Speaker 1>charges in Fairbanks for Sophie's love one. The arrest was

902
00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:53.559
<v Speaker 1>a bit bittersweet. Sophie's mother, Elena, had spent years haunted

903
00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:57.039
<v Speaker 1>by her daughter's death, longing for answers, and often just

904
00:48:57.559 --> 00:49:02.280
<v Speaker 1>breaking out in tears randomly and yeah geez. Tragically, she

905
00:49:02.599 --> 00:49:06.159
<v Speaker 1>passed away in twenty twenty one, two years before Stephen

906
00:49:06.159 --> 00:49:09.360
<v Speaker 1>would be convicted. While she did not live to see

907
00:49:09.400 --> 00:49:12.039
<v Speaker 1>him face justice in court, she at least lived long

908
00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:15.199
<v Speaker 1>enough to know that her daughter's killer had been caught.

909
00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:16.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which is good.

910
00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:21.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So in January twenty twenty two, Stephen Down's trial

911
00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:25.760
<v Speaker 1>began at Fairbanks Superior Court. His defense team attempted to

912
00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:29.639
<v Speaker 1>poke holes in the prosecution's case, focusing on the DNA evidence.

913
00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:33.400
<v Speaker 1>They argued that the presence of DNA's DNA didn't definitively

914
00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:36.119
<v Speaker 1>prove his guilt, suggesting instead that it might have been

915
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:38.000
<v Speaker 1>the result of a consensual encounter.

916
00:49:39.800 --> 00:49:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah.

917
00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:43.639
<v Speaker 1>They also pointed out that the other fingerprints and hair

918
00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:45.960
<v Speaker 1>samples were found at the crime scene as well, imploying

919
00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:49.559
<v Speaker 1>someone else might be responsible for the murderer. However, since

920
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:53.000
<v Speaker 1>the crime scene was a shared college dorm bathroom, no shit,

921
00:49:53.239 --> 00:49:55.920
<v Speaker 1>there's other hair and fingerprints and stuff to be found.

922
00:49:56.079 --> 00:49:59.880
<v Speaker 1>But his DNA was found in Sophie.

923
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:01.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so.

924
00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:06.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this argument held little weight. The jury saw through

925
00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:10.079
<v Speaker 1>these attempts to create doubt, and after deliberating for two days,

926
00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:13.599
<v Speaker 1>they returned with their verdict. On February tenth, twenty twenty three,

927
00:50:14.119 --> 00:50:17.679
<v Speaker 1>Stephen Downs was found guilty a first degree murder and

928
00:50:17.840 --> 00:50:23.320
<v Speaker 1>first degree sexual assault in the death of Sophie Surgery.

929
00:50:23.559 --> 00:50:26.920
<v Speaker 1>On September twenty six, twenty twenty three, Superior Court Judge

930
00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:30.599
<v Speaker 1>Thomas Temple sent in Stephen Downs to ninety nine years

931
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:36.519
<v Speaker 1>in prison, the maximum penalty allowed under Alaskan law. Okay,

932
00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:41.480
<v Speaker 1>and there he will rot good. And that's the story

933
00:50:41.559 --> 00:50:42.280
<v Speaker 1>of Sophie.

934
00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:44.599
<v Speaker 2>I mean, and he's a freaking lucky asshole that he

935
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:47.079
<v Speaker 2>got twenty six extra years.

936
00:50:47.119 --> 00:50:48.719
<v Speaker 1>No shit, I hope.

937
00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:50.920
<v Speaker 2>It just haunted the shit out of him. But it doesn't.

938
00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:53.079
<v Speaker 2>I don't know it could have, but it just seems

939
00:50:53.079 --> 00:50:54.599
<v Speaker 2>like it probably didn't.

940
00:50:54.679 --> 00:50:58.079
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, it could have. I hope it fucking did.

941
00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:00.599
<v Speaker 1>I really hope it did. And I hope he had

942
00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:02.559
<v Speaker 1>kids that and how like, wow, you're a piece of

943
00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:04.320
<v Speaker 1>shit and I'm never talking to you again. And then

944
00:51:04.400 --> 00:51:07.119
<v Speaker 1>he lost some fucking loved ones because he took a

945
00:51:07.159 --> 00:51:08.360
<v Speaker 1>loved one away from someone else.

946
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:10.599
<v Speaker 2>Well I kind of hope that he didn't have kids, though,

947
00:51:10.599 --> 00:51:12.760
<v Speaker 2>because then those kids have like this world's piece of

948
00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:13.360
<v Speaker 2>shit father.

949
00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:15.639
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, you know what, I know what you mean.

950
00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:17.760
<v Speaker 2>I know what you mean. He probably did have a family,

951
00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:18.800
<v Speaker 2>though he might have.

952
00:51:19.400 --> 00:51:22.159
<v Speaker 1>I didn't. I didn't look into it. I do remember

953
00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:25.880
<v Speaker 1>them the defense saying something about how like his sentence

954
00:51:25.920 --> 00:51:29.920
<v Speaker 1>should be lessons because it's like you're denying him hugging

955
00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:32.639
<v Speaker 1>someone ever again, a loved one ever again. And it's like,

956
00:51:33.400 --> 00:51:35.440
<v Speaker 1>what the fuck do you think he did to Sophie?

957
00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:37.639
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, your family, Yeah.

958
00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:39.159
<v Speaker 2>I like, you're just like, I don't give a shit

959
00:51:39.239 --> 00:51:39.920
<v Speaker 2>about this guy.

960
00:51:40.159 --> 00:51:43.119
<v Speaker 1>I honestly didn't. I didn't really want to research so much,

961
00:51:43.159 --> 00:51:44.960
<v Speaker 1>so I thought, you know what, fuck it, I'm not

962
00:51:45.000 --> 00:51:49.039
<v Speaker 1>looking into that. I kind of love that because he sucks. Yeah,

963
00:51:49.119 --> 00:51:49.880
<v Speaker 1>douche canoe.

964
00:51:50.119 --> 00:51:52.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, the fact that he was able to get

965
00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:56.559
<v Speaker 2>away with that, you know, it's too bad like that.

966
00:51:56.639 --> 00:52:00.239
<v Speaker 2>They couldn't have just you know, taken like everyone's DNA

967
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:03.679
<v Speaker 2>who lived in this dorm or something, right, But I

968
00:52:03.719 --> 00:52:05.079
<v Speaker 2>know you can't really do that.

969
00:52:05.719 --> 00:52:06.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't know.

970
00:52:06.519 --> 00:52:07.679
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how that shit works.

971
00:52:07.679 --> 00:52:12.280
<v Speaker 1>Full. I'm pretty sure it would have had been voluntarily given. Yeah,

972
00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:16.159
<v Speaker 1>and again, you have a dorm like, let's let's take

973
00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:18.440
<v Speaker 1>just an average dorm room number. How many people you

974
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:20.880
<v Speaker 1>think would live in a dorm building. You clearly we

975
00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:23.199
<v Speaker 1>have at least four floors on this dorm that we

976
00:52:23.320 --> 00:52:26.360
<v Speaker 1>know of. Let's say, I don't know, you have two

977
00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:28.119
<v Speaker 1>people per room? How many rooms per floor?

978
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:30.639
<v Speaker 2>Seven? I don't know.

979
00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:32.679
<v Speaker 1>I'd say sixty is what I was going to say.

980
00:52:32.719 --> 00:52:34.039
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit, Okay, I.

981
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:36.079
<v Speaker 1>Will maybe maybe not that big. I guess, well, he.

982
00:52:36.119 --> 00:52:38.400
<v Speaker 2>Had said that at one point, you'd said over one

983
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:39.880
<v Speaker 2>thousand people live on campus.

984
00:52:39.920 --> 00:52:42.800
<v Speaker 1>I think it was sixty or was it thirteen hundred,

985
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:45.920
<v Speaker 1>thirteen hundred and sixty or sixteen hundred and thirty is

986
00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:47.400
<v Speaker 1>what I want to say. Let's just say fifteen for

987
00:52:47.440 --> 00:52:50.079
<v Speaker 1>an even So fifteen hundred people live on campus. How

988
00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:52.920
<v Speaker 1>many dorm buildings do you think there would be? Let's say,

989
00:52:53.840 --> 00:52:56.320
<v Speaker 1>let's say three, So you have five hundred people per

990
00:52:56.320 --> 00:52:59.159
<v Speaker 1>dorm building. So you have five hundred people who have

991
00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:01.960
<v Speaker 1>granted access to this building. How are you going to

992
00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:05.239
<v Speaker 1>collect DNA all of those people, especially given that you

993
00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:08.039
<v Speaker 1>only have a week and people are free to go

994
00:53:08.079 --> 00:53:10.559
<v Speaker 1>and everything. By the time she was found, he's probably

995
00:53:10.599 --> 00:53:11.719
<v Speaker 1>already gone off campus.

996
00:53:11.920 --> 00:53:13.639
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, and they already had known that there was

997
00:53:13.719 --> 00:53:16.519
<v Speaker 2>so many security issues that it could have really had

998
00:53:16.519 --> 00:53:21.679
<v Speaker 2>been anyone. So I mean how they most likely probably

999
00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:24.000
<v Speaker 2>thought it was someone from you know, outside.

1000
00:53:24.280 --> 00:53:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So I don't think they were even in a week,

1001
00:53:27.840 --> 00:53:30.920
<v Speaker 1>been able to have talked to everyone, let alone collect

1002
00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:33.679
<v Speaker 1>DNA from everyone, even if it was you have to

1003
00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:35.920
<v Speaker 1>if they had a warrant for it all, you know

1004
00:53:35.960 --> 00:53:36.320
<v Speaker 1>what I mean.

1005
00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:38.840
<v Speaker 2>I just find it so hard to believe though, that

1006
00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:40.960
<v Speaker 2>this guy would be such a mom like he would

1007
00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:44.000
<v Speaker 2>have this streak of just being a complete monster. In

1008
00:53:44.039 --> 00:53:48.840
<v Speaker 2>one act here and then just nothing again.

1009
00:53:49.199 --> 00:53:51.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to me either, but

1010
00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:52.880
<v Speaker 1>it is that's what happened.

1011
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, especially too, because like when you get away with shit,

1012
00:53:55.119 --> 00:53:57.199
<v Speaker 2>it's like, oh yeah, I can do this again. Like

1013
00:53:57.280 --> 00:53:58.840
<v Speaker 2>I bet you he did something else.

1014
00:53:59.159 --> 00:54:03.119
<v Speaker 1>He might have Oh gosh, maybe he ended up turning

1015
00:54:03.119 --> 00:54:05.280
<v Speaker 1>into one of those nurses who like fucking kills people

1016
00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:08.280
<v Speaker 1>with drugs and shit. Yeah, just to like saytiate his

1017
00:54:08.440 --> 00:54:09.599
<v Speaker 1>fucking sick fantasies.

1018
00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:12.079
<v Speaker 2>Didn't you share something in their day where it was

1019
00:54:12.119 --> 00:54:15.599
<v Speaker 2>like on social where it was this nurse like broke

1020
00:54:15.639 --> 00:54:20.039
<v Speaker 2>the bones of newborn babies. Oh yeah, mek you or something? Yeah,

1021
00:54:20.119 --> 00:54:24.239
<v Speaker 2>oh god, some people are just so fucking disturbing.

1022
00:54:23.880 --> 00:54:28.719
<v Speaker 1>Right like geez, oh yeah I hated her. Oh yeah,

1023
00:54:28.719 --> 00:54:29.960
<v Speaker 1>thanks for making me think of her again.

1024
00:54:30.079 --> 00:54:32.599
<v Speaker 2>Appreciate that anytime, anytime.

1025
00:54:33.440 --> 00:54:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, thank you guys for being here again. Shout out

1026
00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:39.880
<v Speaker 1>to Alena for recommending that case over on Patreon. If

1027
00:54:39.920 --> 00:54:42.119
<v Speaker 1>you want to join Patreon and maybe recommend a case,

1028
00:54:42.199 --> 00:54:44.519
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you can recommend a case off Patreon too,

1029
00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:46.480
<v Speaker 1>just hire a chance of us seeing it and actually

1030
00:54:46.519 --> 00:54:48.960
<v Speaker 1>talking to you. Over on Patreon, you can sign up.

1031
00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:50.880
<v Speaker 1>All of our links are in the description of this podcast,

1032
00:54:50.920 --> 00:54:53.440
<v Speaker 1>not only for Patreon, but for Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, all

1033
00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:56.199
<v Speaker 1>that sort of stuff. Message us, sign up, support us,

1034
00:54:56.239 --> 00:54:58.960
<v Speaker 1>Hey you're here right now. We appreciate the shit out

1035
00:54:58.960 --> 00:55:00.760
<v Speaker 1>of that, because that's still supporting us right to the

1036
00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:04.480
<v Speaker 1>very end of the show. While I'm talking like this,

1037
00:55:04.719 --> 00:55:06.079
<v Speaker 1>for whatever reason.

1038
00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:08.480
<v Speaker 2>I just have to say, like Ripley knows when we're done,

1039
00:55:08.719 --> 00:55:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Like she just stood up and came for pets, like

1040
00:55:10.920 --> 00:55:13.719
<v Speaker 2>it is unreal. Anyway, that's really side.

1041
00:55:13.760 --> 00:55:16.400
<v Speaker 1>Not sorry, Nichole's just getting into the dog.

1042
00:55:16.480 --> 00:55:18.639
<v Speaker 2>Well. I'm just like, wow, she knows we're done and

1043
00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:23.480
<v Speaker 2>we can like give them move. Yeah, okay, so until

1044
00:55:23.559 --> 00:55:25.920
<v Speaker 2>next episode, stay wicked.