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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so you send us this Red Team handbook to

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<v Speaker 1>dive into, and wow, this thing it really uh it

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<v Speaker 1>does yeah scream serious strategic thinking.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it really does. It's not every day we get

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of peek inside the Army's playbook, right for

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<v Speaker 2>challenging like assumptions and sharpening decision making and all that exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And while we won't be planning any tactical maneuvers today,

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<v Speaker 1>this handbook it's it's packed with insights that I think

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<v Speaker 1>can can level up anyone's thinking really, no matter what

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<v Speaker 1>your field of expertise.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and what's what's really fascinating to me about this

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<v Speaker 2>handbook is is they don't just throw you right into

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<v Speaker 2>complex strategies and all that. They actually start with like

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<v Speaker 2>a really really crucial foundation understanding yourself, you know, like

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<v Speaker 2>you as an individual.

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<v Speaker 1>It's right chapter one, it goes right into like the

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<v Speaker 1>importance of self awareness and how that plays into like

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<v Speaker 1>how we make judgments. Yeah, it's like they're saying, before

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<v Speaker 1>you can challenge the world, you got to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>challenge yourself, challenge your own biases exactly exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And they emphasize, you know, our biases, our emotions, how

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<v Speaker 2>we typically react to situations. All of this plays a

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<v Speaker 2>significant role in how we make decisions in the first place. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>And so they actually introduce this framework it's called personality dimensions, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of help you understand like your deeper needs

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<v Speaker 2>and values.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, hold on personality dimensions. What is that?

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<v Speaker 2>So think of it as like like a roadmap to

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<v Speaker 2>your to your core drivers. It explores whether whether you're

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<v Speaker 2>someone who who thrives on like knowledge or seeks harmony,

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<v Speaker 2>or you really value stability, or you get energized by excitement.

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<v Speaker 2>Right And and this isn't just like a fun little

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<v Speaker 2>personality quiz. This is actually about recognizing how these needs

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<v Speaker 2>might actually influence how you perceive things, wow, and ultimately

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<v Speaker 2>how you make choices.

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<v Speaker 1>That's so interesting. So by understanding our own personality dimensions,

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<v Speaker 1>we can start to see, like, I don't know, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>where our blind spots are, absolutely how that affects our judgment.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like shining a light on those on those unconscious

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<v Speaker 2>biases we all have, you know, which is absolutely critical

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<v Speaker 2>for objective decision making.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>But self awareness that's just the tip of the iceberg. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>This handbook also it delves into the fascinating and sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>treacherous world of group dynamics.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, group dynamics. It's amazing how like you can

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<v Speaker 1>have a group of very intelligent people, but sometimes like

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<v Speaker 1>together they make decisions. It's like, what I know, it's crazy,

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<v Speaker 1>Like how did that happen?

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<v Speaker 2>It's this. Well, they actually have a term for in

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<v Speaker 2>the book. It's called groupthink, where essentially the desire for

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<v Speaker 2>harmony within a group it overrides the critical evaluation of alternatives.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh wow.

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<v Speaker 2>So to counter that, they have a whole arsenal of tools.

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<v Speaker 2>But one that really stood out to me was this

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<v Speaker 2>idea of five will get you twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>Five will get you twenty Oh okay, I'm intrigued.

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<v Speaker 2>Tell me more. So imagine this. You're you're in like

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<v Speaker 2>a brainstorming session, and people are a little hesitant to

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<v Speaker 2>voice their real opinions, especially if you know they clash

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<v Speaker 2>with like the boss's opinion. Sure, so five will get

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<v Speaker 2>you twenty five levels the playing field.

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<v Speaker 1>Ok.

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone writes down five ideas, and then they anonymously rank

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<v Speaker 2>all the ideas from the group.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>And this weighted system, it essentially ensures that every voice

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<v Speaker 2>is heard right and and ideas are actually evaluated on merit,

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<v Speaker 2>not seniority.

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<v Speaker 1>That's fantastic. Yeah, that is such a good way to

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<v Speaker 1>one encourage participation. Yeah, but also like I feel like

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<v Speaker 1>the ideas that you get out of that or are

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<v Speaker 1>going to be like so much more I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>like unconventional, the box outside the box. Yeah, it's not

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<v Speaker 1>just gonna be the same five people in the room

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<v Speaker 1>like saying the same thing totally.

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<v Speaker 2>And the handbook it doesn't just stop at tackling group thing, right,

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<v Speaker 2>it also takes us on and this deep dive into

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<v Speaker 2>sparking creativity and generating innovative solutions even before problems arise.

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<v Speaker 1>And this is where it gets really exciting, because I

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<v Speaker 1>mean the handbook is like chock full of all these

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<v Speaker 1>creative thinking tools. Yeah, but the one that really caught

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<v Speaker 1>my eye was this this pre mortem analysis. Yes, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>who doesn't love a good preemptive strike against potential disaster.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so powerful. So imagine you're about to launch like

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<v Speaker 2>a new product or something. A pre mortem analysis would

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<v Speaker 2>involve envisioning that product launch failing miserably, like absolutely tanking,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you and your team you would basically brainstorm

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<v Speaker 2>all the possible reasons why this hypothetical failure happened.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're basically saying, Okay, let's pretend we're in the future. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>and this product launch was a complete disaster.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, what went wrong exactly? Okay, And by working backwards

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<v Speaker 2>from a hypothetical failure, you can identify potential pitfalls that

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<v Speaker 2>you might not have even considered otherwise.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, you know, like.

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<v Speaker 2>From marketing this haaps to like unforeseen competitor actions, all

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<v Speaker 2>kinds of stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's like having a crystal ball. Yeah, but instead

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<v Speaker 1>of like trying to predict the future, you're just saying, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>well let's prepare for anything.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all the what ifs that could happen. You know.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's amazing. It's all about challenging assumptions, planning for contingencies,

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<v Speaker 1>and just being prepared for any eventuality.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that. So it's like it's not just reacting

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<v Speaker 2>to a situation. It's about like being proactive and thinking

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<v Speaker 2>ahead and being like, Okay, if this happens, what are

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<v Speaker 2>we going to do? How do we want to handle this?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah, that's amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's about being proactive, not reactive.

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<v Speaker 1>I love it. You know, as we're going through all

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<v Speaker 1>these different red teaming tools, you know. In the handbook,

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<v Speaker 1>one thing I'm really struck by is how, yeah, how

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<v Speaker 1>they can be applied to so much more than just

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<v Speaker 1>like military strategy or you know, complex business decisions.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. In fact, they say that very clearly in the

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<v Speaker 2>handbook that these concepts are relevant for for really anyone

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<v Speaker 2>who is looking to like improve their analytical thinking and

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<v Speaker 2>decision making, no matter your profession, no matter your background.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, it's it's it's taking that that same kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like rigor and discipline really and applying it to like

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<v Speaker 1>everyday situations exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So take for instance, the concept of shifting the burden, right, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>that one really really resonated with me.

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<v Speaker 1>Shifting the burden.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because it really highlights this this common trap I

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<v Speaker 2>think we fall into, both both in our personal lives

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<v Speaker 2>and and and in organizations.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, I I shifting the burden. I'm I'm hooked. Explain

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<v Speaker 1>explain what that is and how it like, how that

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<v Speaker 1>plays out.

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<v Speaker 2>So imagine you're you're feeling constantly overwhelmed at work, You're

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<v Speaker 2>you're stressed out, you're feeling behind on deadlines.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've been there, right time.

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<v Speaker 2>So common reaction is to is to seek like quick relief.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, right, oh.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, maybe indulge in some some comfort food or or

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<v Speaker 2>you know, binge, watch a show, or even like resort

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<v Speaker 2>to procrastination.

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<v Speaker 1>Been there, done that, got the T shirt? Right? But

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<v Speaker 1>so how is that like shifting the burden?

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<v Speaker 2>So so those actions they only address the symptom, which

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<v Speaker 2>is in this case, the stress. Okay, right, They don't

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<v Speaker 2>actually address the root cause, got it, which is likely,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, in this case, an unmanageable workload, or maybe

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<v Speaker 2>you have some inefficient work habits, right, right, So by

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<v Speaker 2>by opting for the quick fix, you're essentially shifting the

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<v Speaker 2>burden of that real problem onto your future self.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like putting a band aid on on like a

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<v Speaker 1>much deeper wound, you know. Yeah, you're just like delaying

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<v Speaker 1>the inevitable and probably making it worse in the long.

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<v Speaker 2>Run, exactly. And the handbook they highlight how this plays

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<v Speaker 2>out on a much larger scale too. Oh really, oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they talk about how like you know, organizations might throw

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<v Speaker 2>money at a problem with out actually addressing the systemic causes.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, so how do we how do we break

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<v Speaker 1>free from this cycle? Then? Of burden shifting, like the

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<v Speaker 1>handbook I'm assuming gives us some some it does, Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So they advocate for using those critical thinking tools to

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<v Speaker 2>identify that root cause of the problem, right, not just

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<v Speaker 2>the surface level symptoms okay. Right. It encourages us to

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<v Speaker 2>really invest the time and energy to address that root cause,

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<v Speaker 2>even if it's harder, even if it takes longer.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's about it's about playing the long game, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>even when it's like so tempting to just be like oof,

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<v Speaker 1>I just want this to be done, yes, Like I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think about it. I just want it to be gone.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>It's about you know, what choices can I make right

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<v Speaker 1>now that will benefit me you know, down the line absolutely,

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<v Speaker 1>not just like right now exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's where those those red teaming.

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<v Speaker 1>Tools come in, Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>They give you that framework for it, like actually stepping back,

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<v Speaker 2>analyzing the situation objectively and then making those those really strategic,

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<v Speaker 2>sustainable choices.

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<v Speaker 1>And speaking of tools, I want to talk about some

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<v Speaker 1>of the tools that they have. Yes, they're more focused

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<v Speaker 1>on like group decision making, because you know, even if

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<v Speaker 1>even if we as individuals are like really good at

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<v Speaker 1>you know, this whole like red teaming thing. Yeah, we

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<v Speaker 1>often have to make decisions as part of a team.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.

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<v Speaker 1>So, So what are some of the tools that they highlight.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, the handbooks like full of techniques that are

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<v Speaker 2>designed to foster like productive and innovative group discussions. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>So there are some simpler ones, like the five wise exercise,

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<v Speaker 2>which you've probably heard of, which involves repeatedly asking why

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<v Speaker 2>right to drill down to the root cause of a problem.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that one because it's like you just channeled

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<v Speaker 1>your inner toggler totally, like but why, totally but why why? Why? Why? Why?

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<v Speaker 2>Why?

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly?

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<v Speaker 2>And it's it's so effective though, at uncovering those underlying issues.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's it's amazing how how many times you can

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<v Speaker 1>ask why, I know, right, and and then you like

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<v Speaker 1>finally get to like the real issue, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's amazing, it's not just like the surface thing. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Now they do have like some more structured tools, like

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<v Speaker 2>like the analysis of competing hypotheses.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that one sounds a little more uh a little

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<v Speaker 1>more complex, little more complex, yeah a little bit. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So so essentially like what what is that, Like, what's the.

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<v Speaker 2>What's the So it's It's about approaching a situation with

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<v Speaker 2>a very.

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<v Speaker 1>Open mind, okay, right, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>And considering all possible explanations, even those that seem, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>a little unlikely at first glance.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So instead of just jumping to conclusions based on

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<v Speaker 1>like your gut feeling, yes, you're you're saying, okay, let's

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<v Speaker 1>like really look at all of.

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<v Speaker 2>The all the angle, the.

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<v Speaker 1>Different angles, and then you you systematically test each hypothesis

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<v Speaker 1>against the available evidence.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, figure out which one actually holds up.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like being your own detective Alms. Actually, you're you're

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<v Speaker 1>like getting all the clues before you even like decide,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, what you think happened.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you don't want to go in with your with

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<v Speaker 2>your mind.

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<v Speaker 1>Already made up exactly exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And and that's that's really at the heart of red teaming.

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<v Speaker 2>It's about minimizing those cognitive biases and really trying to

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<v Speaker 2>base your decisions on on logic, on evidence, and a

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<v Speaker 2>really thorough examination of of all the possibilities.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, I know you know this handbook is is geared

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<v Speaker 1>toward like a military audience, right, But you had mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>earlier like these these concepts can be applied in so

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<v Speaker 1>many different areas of life. Absolutely, So can you give

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<v Speaker 1>us some like concrete examples of how this translates into

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<v Speaker 1>you know, our everyday like situations.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely. So imagine you're you're preparing for a big

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<v Speaker 2>presentation at work. You could actually apply red teaming by

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<v Speaker 2>pre morteming your presentation.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So I'm I'm picturing like I'm about to give

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<v Speaker 1>this presentation. Yeah, and I'm pretending like it totally bombed. Yes, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>like what went wrong?

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly? Did your technology fail? Was your message unclear? Did

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<v Speaker 2>you fail to like really engage your audience right? And

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<v Speaker 2>by anticipating these potential pitfalls, you can then take steps

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<v Speaker 2>to prevent them. Okay, So maybe that's you know, having

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<v Speaker 2>backup slides or or rehearsing your your delivery a bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of times, or maybe it's like incorporating like more interactive

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<v Speaker 2>elements into your presentation.

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<v Speaker 1>That's that's a fantastic example. It's just that extra step

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<v Speaker 1>of like preparing for for different contingencies, yes.

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<v Speaker 2>And then and then increasing your chances of success exactly exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a good one.

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<v Speaker 2>Or let's say like you're you're considering, you know, a

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<v Speaker 2>major life decision like like changing careers or moving to

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<v Speaker 2>a new city. Red teaming could look like researching potential challenges, right,

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<v Speaker 2>or seeking out diverse perspectives from from people in those

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<v Speaker 2>fields or in those cities. Okay, right, and really really

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<v Speaker 2>weighing the risks and benefits with a critical eye.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. So you're not just like going on your gut feeling. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>You're really trying to like gather all the information, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so you can make a more informed decision.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly, got it. Red teaming it gives you those tools

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<v Speaker 2>to to challenge those assumptions, to really gather that comprehensive

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<v Speaker 2>information and make choices that are that are really aligned

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<v Speaker 2>with with what you're trying to achieve.

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<v Speaker 1>It's about like feeling empowered to make those those big decisions, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>and not feeling like you're just like being positive out

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<v Speaker 1>in the wind. You know. It's like you actually have

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<v Speaker 1>a plan.

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<v Speaker 2>It's about taking control.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, Yeah, those decisions.

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<v Speaker 2>And the handbook also talks about like how to how

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<v Speaker 2>to do this like with other people, like not just

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<v Speaker 2>like by yourself.

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<v Speaker 1>But collaboration is key. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So what do they say about that, Well.

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<v Speaker 1>They talk about this this idea this concept called devil's advocacy,

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<v Speaker 1>which is really really great for preventing group think, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>and it fosters much more like robust decision making.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So essentially, you you designate someone to play the role

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<v Speaker 1>of the devil's advocate.

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<v Speaker 2>I've heard of that, Yeah, yeah, but like what does

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<v Speaker 2>that actually mean in this context?

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<v Speaker 1>So their job is to basically challenge the group's assumptions, right,

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<v Speaker 1>to poke holes in their ideas, and to present counter arguments.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that, right, It's it's like having a built

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<v Speaker 2>in like contrarian in the room to keep everyone on their.

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<v Speaker 1>Toes and not just get like stuck in that echo

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<v Speaker 1>chamber of like, guess you're right, you're right, you're right exactly,

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<v Speaker 1>let's just all agree and move on.

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<v Speaker 2>And it might feel a little uncomfortable at times, right,

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<v Speaker 2>to have your ideas challenged like that, right, but that

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<v Speaker 2>constructive friction that's often where those more innovative and well

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<v Speaker 2>rounded solutions come from.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's creating that space where like different opinions aren't

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<v Speaker 1>just like tolerated, but like they're they're they're wanted, they're

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<v Speaker 1>actively sought out, they're actively sought out.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, because when you have those multiple perspectives challenging

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<v Speaker 2>each other and refining each other, right, that's how you

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<v Speaker 2>uncover blind spots, you identify potential flaws, and ultimately you

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<v Speaker 2>arrive at a much stronger decision.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's like that saying two heads are better than one,

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<v Speaker 1>but with this like added element of like, okay, but

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<v Speaker 1>like let's really took some hole thist's let's really think

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<v Speaker 1>critically about this.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And that's what makes this approach so powerful, whether

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<v Speaker 2>you whether you're leading a team or or making personal

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<v Speaker 2>decisions or just trying to like navigate a really complex

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<v Speaker 2>world right with with more awareness and insight.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it seems like, you know, it's not it's

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<v Speaker 1>not just about like having the right answer totally. It's

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<v Speaker 1>about like knowing the right questions to ask, absolutely, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to kind of like get you to where you need

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<v Speaker 1>to be.

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<v Speaker 2>It's about approaching every situation with a healthy dose of skepticism, Okay, curiosity,

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<v Speaker 2>a willingness to to challenge the status quo, even when it's.

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<v Speaker 1>Uncomfortable, right, even if it's like, oh, but we've always

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<v Speaker 1>done it this way right exactly, like why why rock

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<v Speaker 1>the boat? Right?

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly?

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but sometimes you need to rock the boat.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And and and recognize that like we don't, we

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<v Speaker 1>don't have all the answers. We don't and that's that's okay, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's that it's that willingness to like keep learning

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<v Speaker 1>and growing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's that growth mindset, yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And that actually brings us to like another really

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<v Speaker 1>really important aspect of red teaming that they emphasize in

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<v Speaker 1>the book, which is is self awareness. Yes, which you

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<v Speaker 1>know we touched on this earlier. Yeah, but I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's it's worth kind of like revisiting in the

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<v Speaker 1>context of like all of this totally because because you

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<v Speaker 1>can you can know all these different tools and techniques.

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<v Speaker 1>But but if you as an individual aren't bringing that

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<v Speaker 1>that self awareness to the table totally, then then are

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<v Speaker 1>you really you know, using these tools, You're not.

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<v Speaker 2>Going to get the most out of them to.

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<v Speaker 1>The best of your ability, you.

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<v Speaker 2>Know, exactly. Yeah, And and they really emphasize that in

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<v Speaker 2>the book, you know, right that this is this is fundamental,

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<v Speaker 2>this is foundational.

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<v Speaker 1>And they give you like some practical tips too, they do, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>in the book of like how to actually develop the

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<v Speaker 1>skill of self.

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<v Speaker 2>Awareness, oh yeah, they recommend things like journaling, reflecting on

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<v Speaker 2>your experiences, seeking feedback from others. Right, it's about creating

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<v Speaker 2>that habit of really examining your thought patterns, like really

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<v Speaker 2>taking a look at those ingrained biases that might be,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, unknowingly influencing you.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's holding up that mirror to yourself and being like, okay, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>this is this is me, this is how I operate.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, warts and all right exactly, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And not and and not being afraid of that, right totally,

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<v Speaker 1>like not shying away from that, but like really leaning

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<v Speaker 1>into it, leaning into it and saying, okay, this is

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<v Speaker 1>this is who I am. How can I like use

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<v Speaker 1>this information. It's a big bitter decisions.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's not it's not like a one time thing either.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's an ongoing process, right, of self discovery

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<v Speaker 2>and growth.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know, yeah, and as you and as you

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<v Speaker 1>encounter new situations and you start applying these tools, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>you become more like in tune with yourself and how

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<v Speaker 1>you react.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you start to see those patterns and then you

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<v Speaker 2>can adjust.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, It's awesome as you as you learn and grow.

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<v Speaker 2>That's amazing. Yeah, And and really it's not about being perfect, No,

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's about like constantly like trying to like get better.

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<v Speaker 1>Continuous improvement.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and be like the best version of yourself.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And and one of the things that really stood

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<v Speaker 1>out to be from the handbook was this quote. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>and it said, the only thing harder than getting a

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<v Speaker 1>new idea into the military mind is getting an old

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<v Speaker 1>one out.

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<v Speaker 2>Ooh that is a good one, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I like that. Yeah. And it speaks to this this

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<v Speaker 1>human tendency. I think we all have to to cling

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<v Speaker 1>to what's familiar, so.

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<v Speaker 2>It's comfortable, what's comfortable, This is how we've always done it.

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<v Speaker 1>If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right, yeah exactly,

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<v Speaker 1>even if it's not really working as well as it

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<v Speaker 1>could be, right exactly. Yeah, Like we we get in

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<v Speaker 1>these ruts and we don't even realize, oh wait, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>there's maybe there's a better way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And red teaming is about breaking free from those

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<v Speaker 2>mental ruts, yes, yeah, and embracing new possibility and.

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<v Speaker 1>Being open to new things. Absolutely, because the world is changing.

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<v Speaker 2>And constantly constantly.

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<v Speaker 1>So our thinking has to change with it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. That's a really good point, right, Yeah, Because what worked,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, five years ago, ten years ago, we may

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<v Speaker 2>not work today. It might not and we have to

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<v Speaker 2>be open.

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<v Speaker 1>To that one percent. Yes. So so this handbook then,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's basically.

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<v Speaker 2>Like it's like a it's like a toolbox.

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00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:36.920
<v Speaker 1>It's a toolbox for your mind. Right, it's like upgrading

399
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:39.640
<v Speaker 1>your your your mental software or something.

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00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:42.400
<v Speaker 2>Yes, exactly, Yeah, I like that. It gives you those

401
00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:46.640
<v Speaker 2>tools and techniques to think more critically, more creatively, more strategically.

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00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:48.480
<v Speaker 1>Right. So it's not just for it, like, no, you

403
00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:53.480
<v Speaker 1>know these these really complex like I don't know military

404
00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:56.240
<v Speaker 1>operations or whatever. Yeah, no, not at all. It really

405
00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:01.440
<v Speaker 1>is something that anyone can benefit from one and it's

406
00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:08.559
<v Speaker 1>it's really about just just becoming like a better thinker, you.

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00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:11.359
<v Speaker 2>Know, yeah, like more more effective problem solving, you know

408
00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:14.319
<v Speaker 2>exactly exactly what, more informed decision making.

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00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:16.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So so for our listener out there, who's who's

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00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:17.440
<v Speaker 1>listening to.

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<v Speaker 2>This, it's like, Okay, this is this is a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>This is a lot of information. Yeah, where do I

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00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:25.440
<v Speaker 1>even begin? What's a good starting point?

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00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:28.599
<v Speaker 2>It's a great question. And and the handbook actually gives

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00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:32.480
<v Speaker 2>them some helpful tips on how to do this, and

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00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:36.119
<v Speaker 2>they they basically say it. Start small. Right. You don't

417
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:39.000
<v Speaker 2>have to like boil the ocean here, right, you.

418
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Don't have to do everything at once.

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<v Speaker 2>Choose one or two tools that really resonate with you

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00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:44.799
<v Speaker 2>and just start experimenting with them.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so so pick pick one or two. Yeah, try

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00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:48.799
<v Speaker 1>it out.

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<v Speaker 2>Try how it happens, exactly. You know, maybe maybe try

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00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:56.920
<v Speaker 2>like those five whys next time you're you're troubleshooting a problem, okay,

425
00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:00.599
<v Speaker 2>or do a quick pre mortem before before a big presentation.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's a good one.

427
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:05.079
<v Speaker 2>I like that, right, Yeah, just start small, Start small.

428
00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:06.839
<v Speaker 2>Don't put too much pressure on yourself.

429
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:09.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, don't try to be perfect. Have fun

430
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:11.519
<v Speaker 1>with it, have fun with it, right, Yeah, exactly.

431
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:14.519
<v Speaker 2>It shouldn't feel like a chore. It should feel empowering.

432
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:19.599
<v Speaker 2>If you're you're you're taking control, you're you're challenging yourself.

433
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:21.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, exactly.

434
00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:24.200
<v Speaker 2>It's about growth, and it's and it's fun and it

435
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:25.559
<v Speaker 2>should be fun, yeah.

436
00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:28.440
<v Speaker 1>To like learn new things and and and grow.

437
00:22:28.599 --> 00:22:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and and you might be surprised at at the

438
00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:36.119
<v Speaker 2>insights you uncover, you know, and the impact that it

439
00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:39.640
<v Speaker 2>has on your on your life, on your decision.

440
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:41.519
<v Speaker 1>Make and and one of the things that we really

441
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:45.200
<v Speaker 1>really kind of like keep coming back to is is

442
00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:49.279
<v Speaker 1>this whole idea of like challenging our assumptions.

443
00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:51.079
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so important.

444
00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:53.440
<v Speaker 1>Because it's so easy to like just get set in

445
00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:56.079
<v Speaker 1>our way always yeah, and and be like, well, this

446
00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:57.640
<v Speaker 1>is this is how it is, this is how it's

447
00:22:57.680 --> 00:22:59.839
<v Speaker 1>always been done, this how has always been done. Yeah.

448
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:03.119
<v Speaker 1>But the but the Handbook really encourages us to like

449
00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:05.759
<v Speaker 1>question every question everything.

450
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:07.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, like don't take anything for granted.

451
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like just is this is this really true? Or

452
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:13.960
<v Speaker 1>is this just like what I've always thought or what

453
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:15.519
<v Speaker 1>you've been told or what have been told? Yeah?

454
00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:19.759
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, right, exactly. And and often I think our biggest

455
00:23:19.799 --> 00:23:23.319
<v Speaker 2>blind spots, Yeah, are those assumptions that we don't even

456
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:24.200
<v Speaker 2>know we're making.

457
00:23:24.519 --> 00:23:26.240
<v Speaker 1>Oh, that's a good point, right.

458
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:28.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they're underneath the surface, right, you don't even know.

459
00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:30.200
<v Speaker 2>You don't even know they're there, You.

460
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Don't even know, yeah, right, And those are the ones

461
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:34.240
<v Speaker 1>that can really trip you up.

462
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:39.680
<v Speaker 2>Because you don't even know to question them. You're just

463
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:41.920
<v Speaker 2>like blindly going along, you know, and.

464
00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:43.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and then you hit a wall and you're like,

465
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:45.920
<v Speaker 1>wait a minute, how did I get here?

466
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:49.240
<v Speaker 2>How did I get here exactly, Yeah, And red teaming

467
00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:52.319
<v Speaker 2>gives you those tools to really shed light on those

468
00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:55.920
<v Speaker 2>blind spots, okay, right, and to expand your thinking.

469
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and to be open to like new possibilities, new perspective,

470
00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:03.359
<v Speaker 1>per maybe there's maybe there's a better way it is

471
00:24:03.400 --> 00:24:04.559
<v Speaker 1>that you haven't even thought of.

472
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:07.119
<v Speaker 2>But you haven't even thought of, yeah exactly, because you've

473
00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:08.799
<v Speaker 2>been so stuck in your own.

474
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:10.079
<v Speaker 1>In your own little box.

475
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:12.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, exactly, your own little box yeaheah. And that

476
00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:17.000
<v Speaker 2>can be daunting, I think for some people because it requires,

477
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:20.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, a certain level of humility.

478
00:24:20.119 --> 00:24:23.920
<v Speaker 1>Right sure, to admit, to admit that you don't.

479
00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:26.119
<v Speaker 2>Know, that you don't know, that you might be wrong,

480
00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:27.359
<v Speaker 2>and that's.

481
00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.279
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's okay to be wrong.

482
00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:33.440
<v Speaker 2>It's it's more than okay, it's it's it's essential.

483
00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:34.759
<v Speaker 1>It's it's how we learn.

484
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:37.680
<v Speaker 2>It's how we learn, it's how we grow one hundred percent, Yeah,

485
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:38.799
<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent.

486
00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:41.640
<v Speaker 1>So it really does. It all comes back to that

487
00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:43.759
<v Speaker 1>self awareness piece. It does, doesn't it.

488
00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:45.480
<v Speaker 2>It really does. It all starts with you.

489
00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:50.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and and being willing to like look at yourself

490
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:52.839
<v Speaker 1>and figure out, like, Okay, what are my what are

491
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.839
<v Speaker 1>my biases? What are what are my your tendencies my tendencies, Yeah,

492
00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:01.160
<v Speaker 1>and how are those potentially like affecting how I'm showing

493
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:02.240
<v Speaker 1>up in the world.

494
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:03.759
<v Speaker 2>And how I'm how I'm making decisions.

495
00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:11.519
<v Speaker 1>So this week, try to like notice when you're on autopilot. Okay.

496
00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:14.279
<v Speaker 1>You know we've been talking about like those moments where

497
00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:17.119
<v Speaker 1>where we just kind of like slip into those.

498
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:18.680
<v Speaker 2>Routine yeah, like our default mode.

499
00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:20.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, those default modes of thinking where it's like, well,

500
00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:23.640
<v Speaker 1>this is how it's always been done right exactly, And

501
00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:26.920
<v Speaker 1>and see if you can like pinprint one okay, and

502
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:29.000
<v Speaker 1>maybe try to use one of those red teeming tools

503
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:31.720
<v Speaker 1>to like shake things up a little bit, shake things

504
00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:34.079
<v Speaker 1>up a bit, yeah, like flex that mental.

505
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:35.359
<v Speaker 2>Muscle, right exactly exactly.

506
00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:37.039
<v Speaker 1>I mean you're like I don't know about to reply

507
00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:42.119
<v Speaker 1>all two like a really like sensitive email like stop

508
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:42.960
<v Speaker 1>do do it?

509
00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:46.279
<v Speaker 2>Wait a minute. I'm just like like imagine like the

510
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:51.440
<v Speaker 2>worst case scenario, right exactly, like you could happen and

511
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:54.400
<v Speaker 2>it might just save you like a whole world of.

512
00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Hurt exactly one hundred and the and the beauty is

513
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:01.599
<v Speaker 1>you don't have to like announce it to everyone, right,

514
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:02.319
<v Speaker 1>you know.

515
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:05.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm red teaming this decision. Yeah, yeah, you don't have

516
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:08.400
<v Speaker 2>to do that, but just that like internal shift of

517
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:12.200
<v Speaker 2>of being like okay, wait, let me like put on

518
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:17.119
<v Speaker 2>my thinking cap here, yes, and really like think this through.

519
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. You know, when you think about it, we've really

520
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:25.200
<v Speaker 1>been talking about is perspective, right, Yes, it's about looking

521
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:28.799
<v Speaker 1>at things from different angles, different angles, y, not being

522
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:31.400
<v Speaker 1>afraid to question things.

523
00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:32.119
<v Speaker 2>Question everything.

524
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:35.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what if all those you know totally. And it's

525
00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:39.759
<v Speaker 1>it's interesting to me how these these tools were were

526
00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:45.119
<v Speaker 1>originally designed, you know, for for like these high stakes

527
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:48.599
<v Speaker 1>like military operations rate, but we can use them to

528
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:52.279
<v Speaker 1>like improve our everyday lives. You know. It's about being

529
00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:54.400
<v Speaker 1>more adaptable, more resilient.

530
00:26:54.039 --> 00:26:56.039
<v Speaker 2>Be more strategic, more strategic.

531
00:26:56.200 --> 00:27:00.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's it's like that quote. It's like if everyone's

532
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:02.359
<v Speaker 1>thinking alike, then no one's thinking right.

533
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:03.039
<v Speaker 2>There you go.

534
00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:06.079
<v Speaker 1>So it's like be that person, be the red teamer,

535
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:08.240
<v Speaker 1>Be the red teamer in the room. Yeah, there you go.

536
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:12.359
<v Speaker 1>Don't be afraid to challenge, challenge the status, challenge those assumptions.

537
00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:15.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, And I think that's what we really want

538
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:18.759
<v Speaker 1>people to take away from from this deep dive. It's

539
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:23.359
<v Speaker 1>it's not about like memorizing a list of tools. It's

540
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:26.880
<v Speaker 1>it's really about changing your your mindset totally. It's a

541
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:29.960
<v Speaker 1>way of thinking, Yeah, being more curious, more.

542
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:33.880
<v Speaker 2>More open, Yeah, and more willing to learn and.

543
00:27:33.839 --> 00:27:38.160
<v Speaker 1>Grow and constantly trying to learn new things. Yeah. So

544
00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:43.319
<v Speaker 1>here's here's our challenge for our listeners this week. Pick

545
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:47.079
<v Speaker 1>one red teaming tool. Okay, just one, Try.

546
00:27:46.960 --> 00:27:48.160
<v Speaker 2>It out, put it into practice.

547
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:49.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, see what happens?

548
00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:49.839
<v Speaker 2>What do you discover?

549
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:51.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Do you do you all of a sudden have

550
00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:53.880
<v Speaker 1>this like breakthrough idea?

551
00:27:54.119 --> 00:27:56.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, or maybe you uncover a hidden bias you didn't

552
00:27:56.559 --> 00:27:59.279
<v Speaker 2>realize you had, or you just you just gain deeper

553
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:00.400
<v Speaker 2>understanding of a.

554
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:02.440
<v Speaker 1>Situation, right, exactly.

555
00:28:02.119 --> 00:28:04.799
<v Speaker 2>So many possibilities and let us know, Yeah, tell us

556
00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:06.839
<v Speaker 2>about it. Yeah, we want to hear about your red

557
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:08.440
<v Speaker 2>teeming adventures.

558
00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:10.759
<v Speaker 1>Because this is this has been fun for us.

559
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:12.119
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it has.

560
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:15.400
<v Speaker 1>To kind of like dive into this, so absolutely, Yeah,

561
00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:19.079
<v Speaker 1>we want to hear what you guys are doing, is

562
00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:20.880
<v Speaker 1>how you're using these tools in your own lives.

563
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:23.440
<v Speaker 2>It's all about equipping yourself with those mental tools, right,

564
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:28.640
<v Speaker 2>and to navigate this complex world, to embrace uncertainty, and

565
00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:32.160
<v Speaker 2>ultimately to to really shape a more fulfilling life.

566
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:33.920
<v Speaker 1>There you go, you know, love it.

567
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:36.039
<v Speaker 2>That's awesome, awesome, Thanks for having me.

568
00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:39.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this was great. Thanks for diving in with us.