Speaker 1: Okay, so you send us this Red Team handbook to
Speaker 1: dive into, and wow, this thing it really uh it
Speaker 1: does yeah scream serious strategic thinking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really does. It's not every day we get
Speaker 2: to kind of peek inside the Army's playbook, right for
Speaker 2: challenging like assumptions and sharpening decision making and all that exactly.
Speaker 1: And while we won't be planning any tactical maneuvers today,
Speaker 1: this handbook it's it's packed with insights that I think
Speaker 1: can can level up anyone's thinking really, no matter what
Speaker 1: your field of expertise.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what's what's really fascinating to me about this
Speaker 2: handbook is is they don't just throw you right into
Speaker 2: complex strategies and all that. They actually start with like
Speaker 2: a really really crucial foundation understanding yourself, you know, like
Speaker 2: you as an individual.
Speaker 1: It's right chapter one, it goes right into like the
Speaker 1: importance of self awareness and how that plays into like
Speaker 1: how we make judgments. Yeah, it's like they're saying, before
Speaker 1: you can challenge the world, you got to you know,
Speaker 1: challenge yourself, challenge your own biases exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: And they emphasize, you know, our biases, our emotions, how
Speaker 2: we typically react to situations. All of this plays a
Speaker 2: significant role in how we make decisions in the first place. Right,
Speaker 2: And so they actually introduce this framework it's called personality dimensions, Okay,
Speaker 2: to kind of help you understand like your deeper needs
Speaker 2: and values.
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on personality dimensions. What is that?
Speaker 2: So think of it as like like a roadmap to
Speaker 2: your to your core drivers. It explores whether whether you're
Speaker 2: someone who who thrives on like knowledge or seeks harmony,
Speaker 2: or you really value stability, or you get energized by excitement.
Speaker 2: Right And and this isn't just like a fun little
Speaker 2: personality quiz. This is actually about recognizing how these needs
Speaker 2: might actually influence how you perceive things, wow, and ultimately
Speaker 2: how you make choices.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting. So by understanding our own personality dimensions,
Speaker 1: we can start to see, like, I don't know, maybe
Speaker 1: where our blind spots are, absolutely how that affects our judgment.
Speaker 2: It's like shining a light on those on those unconscious
Speaker 2: biases we all have, you know, which is absolutely critical
Speaker 2: for objective decision making.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: But self awareness that's just the tip of the iceberg. Right.
Speaker 2: This handbook also it delves into the fascinating and sometimes
Speaker 2: treacherous world of group dynamics.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, group dynamics. It's amazing how like you can
Speaker 1: have a group of very intelligent people, but sometimes like
Speaker 1: together they make decisions. It's like, what I know, it's crazy,
Speaker 1: Like how did that happen?
Speaker 2: It's this. Well, they actually have a term for in
Speaker 2: the book. It's called groupthink, where essentially the desire for
Speaker 2: harmony within a group it overrides the critical evaluation of alternatives.
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
Speaker 2: So to counter that, they have a whole arsenal of tools.
Speaker 2: But one that really stood out to me was this
Speaker 2: idea of five will get you twenty five.
Speaker 1: Five will get you twenty Oh okay, I'm intrigued.
Speaker 2: Tell me more. So imagine this. You're you're in like
Speaker 2: a brainstorming session, and people are a little hesitant to
Speaker 2: voice their real opinions, especially if you know they clash
Speaker 2: with like the boss's opinion. Sure, so five will get
Speaker 2: you twenty five levels the playing field.
Speaker 1: Ok.
Speaker 2: Everyone writes down five ideas, and then they anonymously rank
Speaker 2: all the ideas from the group.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And this weighted system, it essentially ensures that every voice
Speaker 2: is heard right and and ideas are actually evaluated on merit,
Speaker 2: not seniority.
Speaker 1: That's fantastic. Yeah, that is such a good way to
Speaker 1: one encourage participation. Yeah, but also like I feel like
Speaker 1: the ideas that you get out of that or are
Speaker 1: going to be like so much more I don't know,
Speaker 1: like unconventional, the box outside the box. Yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: just gonna be the same five people in the room
Speaker 1: like saying the same thing totally.
Speaker 2: And the handbook it doesn't just stop at tackling group thing, right,
Speaker 2: it also takes us on and this deep dive into
Speaker 2: sparking creativity and generating innovative solutions even before problems arise.
Speaker 1: And this is where it gets really exciting, because I
Speaker 1: mean the handbook is like chock full of all these
Speaker 1: creative thinking tools. Yeah, but the one that really caught
Speaker 1: my eye was this this pre mortem analysis. Yes, I mean,
Speaker 1: who doesn't love a good preemptive strike against potential disaster.
Speaker 2: It's so powerful. So imagine you're about to launch like
Speaker 2: a new product or something. A pre mortem analysis would
Speaker 2: involve envisioning that product launch failing miserably, like absolutely tanking,
Speaker 2: and then you and your team you would basically brainstorm
Speaker 2: all the possible reasons why this hypothetical failure happened.
Speaker 1: So you're basically saying, Okay, let's pretend we're in the future. Yes,
Speaker 1: and this product launch was a complete disaster.
Speaker 2: Yes, what went wrong exactly? Okay, And by working backwards
Speaker 2: from a hypothetical failure, you can identify potential pitfalls that
Speaker 2: you might not have even considered otherwise.
Speaker 1: Wow, you know, like.
Speaker 2: From marketing this haaps to like unforeseen competitor actions, all
Speaker 2: kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1: It's it's like having a crystal ball. Yeah, but instead
Speaker 1: of like trying to predict the future, you're just saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: well let's prepare for anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all the what ifs that could happen. You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing. It's all about challenging assumptions, planning for contingencies,
Speaker 1: and just being prepared for any eventuality.
Speaker 2: I love that. So it's like it's not just reacting
Speaker 2: to a situation. It's about like being proactive and thinking
Speaker 2: ahead and being like, Okay, if this happens, what are
Speaker 2: we going to do? How do we want to handle this?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 2: It's about being proactive, not reactive.
Speaker 1: I love it. You know, as we're going through all
Speaker 1: these different red teaming tools, you know. In the handbook,
Speaker 1: one thing I'm really struck by is how, yeah, how
Speaker 1: they can be applied to so much more than just
Speaker 1: like military strategy or you know, complex business decisions.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. In fact, they say that very clearly in the
Speaker 2: handbook that these concepts are relevant for for really anyone
Speaker 2: who is looking to like improve their analytical thinking and
Speaker 2: decision making, no matter your profession, no matter your background.
Speaker 1: Right, it's it's it's taking that that same kind of
Speaker 1: like rigor and discipline really and applying it to like
Speaker 1: everyday situations exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So take for instance, the concept of shifting the burden, right, Okay,
Speaker 2: that one really really resonated with me.
Speaker 1: Shifting the burden.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it really highlights this this common trap I
Speaker 2: think we fall into, both both in our personal lives
Speaker 2: and and and in organizations.
Speaker 1: Okay, I I shifting the burden. I'm I'm hooked. Explain
Speaker 1: explain what that is and how it like, how that
Speaker 1: plays out.
Speaker 2: So imagine you're you're feeling constantly overwhelmed at work, You're
Speaker 2: you're stressed out, you're feeling behind on deadlines.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been there, right time.
Speaker 2: So common reaction is to is to seek like quick relief.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe indulge in some some comfort food or or
Speaker 2: you know, binge, watch a show, or even like resort
Speaker 2: to procrastination.
Speaker 1: Been there, done that, got the T shirt? Right? But
Speaker 1: so how is that like shifting the burden?
Speaker 2: So so those actions they only address the symptom, which
Speaker 2: is in this case, the stress. Okay, right, They don't
Speaker 2: actually address the root cause, got it, which is likely,
Speaker 2: you know, in this case, an unmanageable workload, or maybe
Speaker 2: you have some inefficient work habits, right, right, So by
Speaker 2: by opting for the quick fix, you're essentially shifting the
Speaker 2: burden of that real problem onto your future self.
Speaker 1: It's like putting a band aid on on like a
Speaker 1: much deeper wound, you know. Yeah, you're just like delaying
Speaker 1: the inevitable and probably making it worse in the long.
Speaker 2: Run, exactly. And the handbook they highlight how this plays
Speaker 2: out on a much larger scale too. Oh really, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: they talk about how like you know, organizations might throw
Speaker 2: money at a problem with out actually addressing the systemic causes.
Speaker 1: All right, so how do we how do we break
Speaker 1: free from this cycle? Then? Of burden shifting, like the
Speaker 1: handbook I'm assuming gives us some some it does, Okay.
Speaker 2: So they advocate for using those critical thinking tools to
Speaker 2: identify that root cause of the problem, right, not just
Speaker 2: the surface level symptoms okay. Right. It encourages us to
Speaker 2: really invest the time and energy to address that root cause,
Speaker 2: even if it's harder, even if it takes longer.
Speaker 1: So it's about it's about playing the long game, yes,
Speaker 1: even when it's like so tempting to just be like oof,
Speaker 1: I just want this to be done, yes, Like I
Speaker 1: don't think about it. I just want it to be gone.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: It's about you know, what choices can I make right
Speaker 1: now that will benefit me you know, down the line absolutely,
Speaker 1: not just like right now exactly.
Speaker 2: And that's where those those red teaming.
Speaker 1: Tools come in, Okay.
Speaker 2: They give you that framework for it, like actually stepping back,
Speaker 2: analyzing the situation objectively and then making those those really strategic,
Speaker 2: sustainable choices.
Speaker 1: And speaking of tools, I want to talk about some
Speaker 1: of the tools that they have. Yes, they're more focused
Speaker 1: on like group decision making, because you know, even if
Speaker 1: even if we as individuals are like really good at
Speaker 1: you know, this whole like red teaming thing. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: often have to make decisions as part of a team.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: So, So what are some of the tools that they highlight.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the handbooks like full of techniques that are
Speaker 2: designed to foster like productive and innovative group discussions. Okay,
Speaker 2: So there are some simpler ones, like the five wise exercise,
Speaker 2: which you've probably heard of, which involves repeatedly asking why
Speaker 2: right to drill down to the root cause of a problem.
Speaker 1: I love that one because it's like you just channeled
Speaker 1: your inner toggler totally, like but why, totally but why why? Why? Why? Why?
Speaker 2: Why?
Speaker 1: Exactly?
Speaker 2: And it's it's so effective though, at uncovering those underlying issues.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's amazing how how many times you can
Speaker 1: ask why, I know, right, and and then you like
Speaker 1: finally get to like the real issue, you know.
Speaker 2: It's it's amazing, it's not just like the surface thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now they do have like some more structured tools, like
Speaker 2: like the analysis of competing hypotheses.
Speaker 1: Okay, that one sounds a little more uh a little
Speaker 1: more complex, little more complex, yeah a little bit. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So so essentially like what what is that, Like, what's the.
Speaker 2: What's the So it's It's about approaching a situation with
Speaker 2: a very.
Speaker 1: Open mind, okay, right, okay.
Speaker 2: And considering all possible explanations, even those that seem, you know,
Speaker 2: a little unlikely at first glance.
Speaker 1: Okay, So instead of just jumping to conclusions based on
Speaker 1: like your gut feeling, yes, you're you're saying, okay, let's
Speaker 1: like really look at all of.
Speaker 2: The all the angle, the.
Speaker 1: Different angles, and then you you systematically test each hypothesis
Speaker 1: against the available evidence.
Speaker 2: Right, figure out which one actually holds up.
Speaker 1: It's like being your own detective Alms. Actually, you're you're
Speaker 1: like getting all the clues before you even like decide,
Speaker 1: you know, what you think happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't want to go in with your with
Speaker 2: your mind.
Speaker 1: Already made up exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: And and that's that's really at the heart of red teaming.
Speaker 2: It's about minimizing those cognitive biases and really trying to
Speaker 2: base your decisions on on logic, on evidence, and a
Speaker 2: really thorough examination of of all the possibilities.
Speaker 1: Now, I know you know this handbook is is geared
Speaker 1: toward like a military audience, right, But you had mentioned
Speaker 1: earlier like these these concepts can be applied in so
Speaker 1: many different areas of life. Absolutely, So can you give
Speaker 1: us some like concrete examples of how this translates into
Speaker 1: you know, our everyday like situations.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. So imagine you're you're preparing for a big
Speaker 2: presentation at work. You could actually apply red teaming by
Speaker 2: pre morteming your presentation.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm I'm picturing like I'm about to give
Speaker 1: this presentation. Yeah, and I'm pretending like it totally bombed. Yes, Okay,
Speaker 1: like what went wrong?
Speaker 2: Exactly? Did your technology fail? Was your message unclear? Did
Speaker 2: you fail to like really engage your audience right? And
Speaker 2: by anticipating these potential pitfalls, you can then take steps
Speaker 2: to prevent them. Okay, So maybe that's you know, having
Speaker 2: backup slides or or rehearsing your your delivery a bunch
Speaker 2: of times, or maybe it's like incorporating like more interactive
Speaker 2: elements into your presentation.
Speaker 1: That's that's a fantastic example. It's just that extra step
Speaker 1: of like preparing for for different contingencies, yes.
Speaker 2: And then and then increasing your chances of success exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: That's a good one.
Speaker 2: Or let's say like you're you're considering, you know, a
Speaker 2: major life decision like like changing careers or moving to
Speaker 2: a new city. Red teaming could look like researching potential challenges, right,
Speaker 2: or seeking out diverse perspectives from from people in those
Speaker 2: fields or in those cities. Okay, right, and really really
Speaker 2: weighing the risks and benefits with a critical eye.
Speaker 1: Okay. So you're not just like going on your gut feeling. Yeah,
Speaker 1: You're really trying to like gather all the information, okay,
Speaker 1: so you can make a more informed decision.
Speaker 2: Exactly, got it. Red teaming it gives you those tools
Speaker 2: to to challenge those assumptions, to really gather that comprehensive
Speaker 2: information and make choices that are that are really aligned
Speaker 2: with with what you're trying to achieve.
Speaker 1: It's about like feeling empowered to make those those big decisions, yes,
Speaker 1: and not feeling like you're just like being positive out
Speaker 1: in the wind. You know. It's like you actually have
Speaker 1: a plan.
Speaker 2: It's about taking control.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, those decisions.
Speaker 2: And the handbook also talks about like how to how
Speaker 2: to do this like with other people, like not just
Speaker 2: like by yourself.
Speaker 1: But collaboration is key. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what do they say about that, Well.
Speaker 1: They talk about this this idea this concept called devil's advocacy,
Speaker 1: which is really really great for preventing group think, Okay,
Speaker 1: and it fosters much more like robust decision making.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So essentially, you you designate someone to play the role
Speaker 1: of the devil's advocate.
Speaker 2: I've heard of that, Yeah, yeah, but like what does
Speaker 2: that actually mean in this context?
Speaker 1: So their job is to basically challenge the group's assumptions, right,
Speaker 1: to poke holes in their ideas, and to present counter arguments.
Speaker 2: I love that, right, It's it's like having a built
Speaker 2: in like contrarian in the room to keep everyone on their.
Speaker 1: Toes and not just get like stuck in that echo
Speaker 1: chamber of like, guess you're right, you're right, you're right exactly,
Speaker 1: let's just all agree and move on.
Speaker 2: And it might feel a little uncomfortable at times, right,
Speaker 2: to have your ideas challenged like that, right, but that
Speaker 2: constructive friction that's often where those more innovative and well
Speaker 2: rounded solutions come from.
Speaker 1: It's it's creating that space where like different opinions aren't
Speaker 1: just like tolerated, but like they're they're they're wanted, they're
Speaker 1: actively sought out, they're actively sought out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because when you have those multiple perspectives challenging
Speaker 2: each other and refining each other, right, that's how you
Speaker 2: uncover blind spots, you identify potential flaws, and ultimately you
Speaker 2: arrive at a much stronger decision.
Speaker 1: It's it's like that saying two heads are better than one,
Speaker 1: but with this like added element of like, okay, but
Speaker 1: like let's really took some hole thist's let's really think
Speaker 1: critically about this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's what makes this approach so powerful, whether
Speaker 2: you whether you're leading a team or or making personal
Speaker 2: decisions or just trying to like navigate a really complex
Speaker 2: world right with with more awareness and insight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it seems like, you know, it's not it's
Speaker 1: not just about like having the right answer totally. It's
Speaker 1: about like knowing the right questions to ask, absolutely, you know,
Speaker 1: to kind of like get you to where you need
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 2: It's about approaching every situation with a healthy dose of skepticism, Okay, curiosity,
Speaker 2: a willingness to to challenge the status quo, even when it's.
Speaker 1: Uncomfortable, right, even if it's like, oh, but we've always
Speaker 1: done it this way right exactly, like why why rock
Speaker 1: the boat? Right?
Speaker 2: Exactly?
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but sometimes you need to rock the boat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And and and recognize that like we don't, we
Speaker 1: don't have all the answers. We don't and that's that's okay, yes,
Speaker 1: but it's that it's that willingness to like keep learning
Speaker 1: and growing.
Speaker 2: It's that growth mindset, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And that actually brings us to like another really
Speaker 1: really important aspect of red teaming that they emphasize in
Speaker 1: the book, which is is self awareness. Yes, which you
Speaker 1: know we touched on this earlier. Yeah, but I think
Speaker 1: it's it's it's worth kind of like revisiting in the
Speaker 1: context of like all of this totally because because you
Speaker 1: can you can know all these different tools and techniques.
Speaker 1: But but if you as an individual aren't bringing that
Speaker 1: that self awareness to the table totally, then then are
Speaker 1: you really you know, using these tools, You're not.
Speaker 2: Going to get the most out of them to.
Speaker 1: The best of your ability, you.
Speaker 2: Know, exactly. Yeah, And and they really emphasize that in
Speaker 2: the book, you know, right that this is this is fundamental,
Speaker 2: this is foundational.
Speaker 1: And they give you like some practical tips too, they do, yeah,
Speaker 1: in the book of like how to actually develop the
Speaker 1: skill of self.
Speaker 2: Awareness, oh yeah, they recommend things like journaling, reflecting on
Speaker 2: your experiences, seeking feedback from others. Right, it's about creating
Speaker 2: that habit of really examining your thought patterns, like really
Speaker 2: taking a look at those ingrained biases that might be,
Speaker 2: you know, unknowingly influencing you.
Speaker 1: It's it's holding up that mirror to yourself and being like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is this is me, this is how I operate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, warts and all right exactly, Yeah.
Speaker 1: And not and and not being afraid of that, right totally,
Speaker 1: like not shying away from that, but like really leaning
Speaker 1: into it, leaning into it and saying, okay, this is
Speaker 1: this is who I am. How can I like use
Speaker 1: this information. It's a big bitter decisions.
Speaker 2: And it's not it's not like a one time thing either.
Speaker 2: You know, it's an ongoing process, right, of self discovery
Speaker 2: and growth.
Speaker 1: And you know, yeah, and as you and as you
Speaker 1: encounter new situations and you start applying these tools, yes,
Speaker 1: you become more like in tune with yourself and how
Speaker 1: you react.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you start to see those patterns and then you
Speaker 2: can adjust.
Speaker 1: Right, It's awesome as you as you learn and grow.
Speaker 2: That's amazing. Yeah, And and really it's not about being perfect, No,
Speaker 2: it's it's about like constantly like trying to like get better.
Speaker 1: Continuous improvement.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and be like the best version of yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And and one of the things that really stood
Speaker 1: out to be from the handbook was this quote. Okay,
Speaker 1: and it said, the only thing harder than getting a
Speaker 1: new idea into the military mind is getting an old
Speaker 1: one out.
Speaker 2: Ooh that is a good one, right.
Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah. And it speaks to this this
Speaker 1: human tendency. I think we all have to to cling
Speaker 1: to what's familiar, so.
Speaker 2: It's comfortable, what's comfortable, This is how we've always done it.
Speaker 1: If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right, yeah exactly,
Speaker 1: even if it's not really working as well as it
Speaker 1: could be, right exactly. Yeah, Like we we get in
Speaker 1: these ruts and we don't even realize, oh wait, maybe
Speaker 1: there's maybe there's a better way.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And red teaming is about breaking free from those
Speaker 2: mental ruts, yes, yeah, and embracing new possibility and.
Speaker 1: Being open to new things. Absolutely, because the world is changing.
Speaker 2: And constantly constantly.
Speaker 1: So our thinking has to change with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's a really good point, right, Yeah, Because what worked,
Speaker 2: you know, five years ago, ten years ago, we may
Speaker 2: not work today. It might not and we have to
Speaker 2: be open.
Speaker 1: To that one percent. Yes. So so this handbook then,
Speaker 1: it's it's basically.
Speaker 2: Like it's like a it's like a toolbox.
Speaker 1: It's a toolbox for your mind. Right, it's like upgrading
Speaker 1: your your your mental software or something.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, Yeah, I like that. It gives you those
Speaker 2: tools and techniques to think more critically, more creatively, more strategically.
Speaker 1: Right. So it's not just for it, like, no, you
Speaker 1: know these these really complex like I don't know military
Speaker 1: operations or whatever. Yeah, no, not at all. It really
Speaker 1: is something that anyone can benefit from one and it's
Speaker 1: it's really about just just becoming like a better thinker, you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, like more more effective problem solving, you know
Speaker 2: exactly exactly what, more informed decision making.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So so for our listener out there, who's who's
Speaker 1: listening to.
Speaker 2: This, it's like, Okay, this is this is a lot.
Speaker 1: This is a lot of information. Yeah, where do I
Speaker 1: even begin? What's a good starting point?
Speaker 2: It's a great question. And and the handbook actually gives
Speaker 2: them some helpful tips on how to do this, and
Speaker 2: they they basically say it. Start small. Right. You don't
Speaker 2: have to like boil the ocean here, right, you.
Speaker 1: Don't have to do everything at once.
Speaker 2: Choose one or two tools that really resonate with you
Speaker 2: and just start experimenting with them.
Speaker 1: Okay, so so pick pick one or two. Yeah, try
Speaker 1: it out.
Speaker 2: Try how it happens, exactly. You know, maybe maybe try
Speaker 2: like those five whys next time you're you're troubleshooting a problem, okay,
Speaker 2: or do a quick pre mortem before before a big presentation.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a good one.
Speaker 2: I like that, right, Yeah, just start small, Start small.
Speaker 2: Don't put too much pressure on yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, don't try to be perfect. Have fun
Speaker 1: with it, have fun with it, right, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: It shouldn't feel like a chore. It should feel empowering.
Speaker 2: If you're you're you're taking control, you're you're challenging yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2: It's about growth, and it's and it's fun and it
Speaker 2: should be fun, yeah.
Speaker 1: To like learn new things and and and grow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and you might be surprised at at the
Speaker 2: insights you uncover, you know, and the impact that it
Speaker 2: has on your on your life, on your decision.
Speaker 1: Make and and one of the things that we really
Speaker 1: really kind of like keep coming back to is is
Speaker 1: this whole idea of like challenging our assumptions.
Speaker 2: Yes, so important.
Speaker 1: Because it's so easy to like just get set in
Speaker 1: our way always yeah, and and be like, well, this
Speaker 1: is this is how it is, this is how it's
Speaker 1: always been done, this how has always been done. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But the but the Handbook really encourages us to like
Speaker 1: question every question everything.
Speaker 2: You know, like don't take anything for granted.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like just is this is this really true? Or
Speaker 1: is this just like what I've always thought or what
Speaker 1: you've been told or what have been told? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Exactly, right, exactly. And and often I think our biggest
Speaker 2: blind spots, Yeah, are those assumptions that we don't even
Speaker 2: know we're making.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good point, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're underneath the surface, right, you don't even know.
Speaker 2: You don't even know they're there, You.
Speaker 1: Don't even know, yeah, right, And those are the ones
Speaker 1: that can really trip you up.
Speaker 2: Because you don't even know to question them. You're just
Speaker 2: like blindly going along, you know, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then you hit a wall and you're like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, how did I get here?
Speaker 2: How did I get here exactly, Yeah, And red teaming
Speaker 2: gives you those tools to really shed light on those
Speaker 2: blind spots, okay, right, and to expand your thinking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to be open to like new possibilities, new perspective,
Speaker 1: per maybe there's maybe there's a better way it is
Speaker 1: that you haven't even thought of.
Speaker 2: But you haven't even thought of, yeah exactly, because you've
Speaker 2: been so stuck in your own.
Speaker 1: In your own little box.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, your own little box yeaheah. And that
Speaker 2: can be daunting, I think for some people because it requires,
Speaker 2: you know, a certain level of humility.
Speaker 1: Right sure, to admit, to admit that you don't.
Speaker 2: Know, that you don't know, that you might be wrong,
Speaker 2: and that's.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's okay to be wrong.
Speaker 2: It's it's more than okay, it's it's it's essential.
Speaker 1: It's it's how we learn.
Speaker 2: It's how we learn, it's how we grow one hundred percent, Yeah,
Speaker 2: one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: So it really does. It all comes back to that
Speaker 1: self awareness piece. It does, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: It really does. It all starts with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and being willing to like look at yourself
Speaker 1: and figure out, like, Okay, what are my what are
Speaker 1: my biases? What are what are my your tendencies my tendencies, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and how are those potentially like affecting how I'm showing
Speaker 1: up in the world.
Speaker 2: And how I'm how I'm making decisions.
Speaker 1: So this week, try to like notice when you're on autopilot. Okay.
Speaker 1: You know we've been talking about like those moments where
Speaker 1: where we just kind of like slip into those.
Speaker 2: Routine yeah, like our default mode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, those default modes of thinking where it's like, well,
Speaker 1: this is how it's always been done right exactly, And
Speaker 1: and see if you can like pinprint one okay, and
Speaker 1: maybe try to use one of those red teeming tools
Speaker 1: to like shake things up a little bit, shake things
Speaker 1: up a bit, yeah, like flex that mental.
Speaker 2: Muscle, right exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: I mean you're like I don't know about to reply
Speaker 1: all two like a really like sensitive email like stop
Speaker 1: do do it?
Speaker 2: Wait a minute. I'm just like like imagine like the
Speaker 2: worst case scenario, right exactly, like you could happen and
Speaker 2: it might just save you like a whole world of.
Speaker 1: Hurt exactly one hundred and the and the beauty is
Speaker 1: you don't have to like announce it to everyone, right,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: I'm red teaming this decision. Yeah, yeah, you don't have
Speaker 2: to do that, but just that like internal shift of
Speaker 2: of being like okay, wait, let me like put on
Speaker 2: my thinking cap here, yes, and really like think this through.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, when you think about it, we've really
Speaker 1: been talking about is perspective, right, Yes, it's about looking
Speaker 1: at things from different angles, different angles, y, not being
Speaker 1: afraid to question things.
Speaker 2: Question everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what if all those you know totally. And it's
Speaker 1: it's interesting to me how these these tools were were
Speaker 1: originally designed, you know, for for like these high stakes
Speaker 1: like military operations rate, but we can use them to
Speaker 1: like improve our everyday lives. You know. It's about being
Speaker 1: more adaptable, more resilient.
Speaker 2: Be more strategic, more strategic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's like that quote. It's like if everyone's
Speaker 1: thinking alike, then no one's thinking right.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 1: So it's like be that person, be the red teamer,
Speaker 1: Be the red teamer in the room. Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1: Don't be afraid to challenge, challenge the status, challenge those assumptions.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And I think that's what we really want
Speaker 1: people to take away from from this deep dive. It's
Speaker 1: it's not about like memorizing a list of tools. It's
Speaker 1: it's really about changing your your mindset totally. It's a
Speaker 1: way of thinking, Yeah, being more curious, more.
Speaker 2: More open, Yeah, and more willing to learn and.
Speaker 1: Grow and constantly trying to learn new things. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: here's here's our challenge for our listeners this week. Pick
Speaker 1: one red teaming tool. Okay, just one, Try.
Speaker 2: It out, put it into practice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, see what happens?
Speaker 2: What do you discover?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Do you do you all of a sudden have
Speaker 1: this like breakthrough idea?
Speaker 2: Yeah, or maybe you uncover a hidden bias you didn't
Speaker 2: realize you had, or you just you just gain deeper
Speaker 2: understanding of a.
Speaker 1: Situation, right, exactly.
Speaker 2: So many possibilities and let us know, Yeah, tell us
Speaker 2: about it. Yeah, we want to hear about your red
Speaker 2: teeming adventures.
Speaker 1: Because this is this has been fun for us.
Speaker 2: Yes, it has.
Speaker 1: To kind of like dive into this, so absolutely, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we want to hear what you guys are doing, is
Speaker 1: how you're using these tools in your own lives.
Speaker 2: It's all about equipping yourself with those mental tools, right,
Speaker 2: and to navigate this complex world, to embrace uncertainty, and
Speaker 2: ultimately to to really shape a more fulfilling life.
Speaker 1: There you go, you know, love it.
Speaker 2: That's awesome, awesome, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was great. Thanks for diving in with us.