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Speaker 2: Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Killer
Speaker 2: Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview Classic,
Speaker 2: where Wade Killer interviews one of Pro Wrestling's newsmakers.
Speaker 1: Five years ago. This week, I interviewed Matt McCarthy. He's
Speaker 1: an ex WWE Creative Team member. He's also a stand
Speaker 1: up comedian, progressling podcaster. He's been in TV commercials. In
Speaker 1: this two hour plus interview, we talked about WWE's Clash
Speaker 1: of the Champion's pay per view lineup with an examination
Speaker 1: and critique of the storylines building up the matches. Matt
Speaker 1: also took us behind the scenes to how finsic Man
Speaker 1: operates when it comes to developing, augmenting, and stubbornly sticking
Speaker 1: to certain storylines. We also brought up mail Bay questions
Speaker 1: and look to head to the eightw versus NXT Battle,
Speaker 1: the Impact Wrestling News, and also with Matt, we go
Speaker 1: to fun places, references, analogies to Watchmen, The Simpsons, Breaking Bad,
Speaker 1: Nicholas Cage and Dave Chappelle. Real fun interview, Always a
Speaker 1: fun conversation with ex WW creative team member Matt McCarthy,
Speaker 1: and this one originally live streamed on September thirteenth, twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: five years ago this week and it is today's Wade
Speaker 1: Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast five years ago Flashback Interview Classic
Speaker 1: again for Saturday, September fourteenth, twenty twenty four. Here we go,
Speaker 1: all right, Matt McCarthy, Clash a Champions. First question, what
Speaker 1: are you most looking forward to? What match are you
Speaker 1: most anticipating, either because it'll be a good match or
Speaker 1: you're just curious to see how it plays out?
Speaker 3: Oh god, yeah, I don't know. I don't know about
Speaker 3: this thing. Maybe Kofi and Randy if Randy's okay after
Speaker 3: getting blasted with that chair, Yeah, that was gross. You can't.
Speaker 3: I mean, I like when I was in we went
Speaker 3: to Chicago for All Out and then we went to
Speaker 3: aaw you know Thursday and Friday. Yeah, and uh, I
Speaker 3: forget the guys. I don't know the individuals names in LAX,
Speaker 3: but the guy that used to have the big afro
Speaker 3: and I was his hair is much shorter. He takes
Speaker 3: some laughs to the head like that are unnecessary, and uh,
Speaker 3: you know so, I mean the day of open unprotected
Speaker 3: chair shots are gone. But then you get like somebody
Speaker 3: like Randy who gets hit in the back of the
Speaker 3: head and he's I mean, that's that's Randy's problem area
Speaker 3: is his shoulders, his neck and his head. Yuck. But
Speaker 3: h but that.
Speaker 1: Randy has spent ten years calling KOFE stupid, so.
Speaker 3: That's true. That's true. Yeah, no, I'm When I saw
Speaker 3: that happen, I was. My first thought was because you know,
Speaker 3: they showed Koffee walking around backstage at the Garden and
Speaker 3: he sees that frame picture of the night that, you know,
Speaker 3: the night he was made or whatever they referred to
Speaker 3: it as, you know, him and him and Randy and
Speaker 3: that killer match they had back in the day. And
Speaker 3: when I first saw that, and I love KOFE. I
Speaker 3: love KOFE. But when I first saw that image, I
Speaker 3: was it struck me as humorous because it didn't feel like, oh,
Speaker 3: here's the night I was made. It felt like, oh,
Speaker 3: here's that last time that they almost pushed me. But
Speaker 3: once Randy got blasted in the back of the head,
Speaker 3: which is the worst thing that can happen to anybody.
Speaker 3: I suddenly saw an image of Koffee watching that footage
Speaker 3: in a frame picture backstage somewhere, and he's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's the night that I met. It all ended for me,
Speaker 3: you know, because the maybe not so much anymore, but
Speaker 3: it's you know, oh you hurt, Randy, You're out of
Speaker 3: a job type of thing. But so hopefully that match
Speaker 3: comes off that could be really good.
Speaker 1: You know, Bailey and Charlotte before before we actually move
Speaker 1: off from from kofee and Randy, because you you work
Speaker 1: behind the scenes in WWE, and you've you've watched w
Speaker 1: B before and after extensively, but from from your time there,
Speaker 1: are you surprised now where KOFE is? And I guess
Speaker 1: I'll ask the same question, even though I anticipate the
Speaker 1: answer a little bit. Same with Randy Orton, like they're
Speaker 1: essentially co headlining Class of Champions, not a uh, top
Speaker 1: of the line pay per view title for WWE. Uh,
Speaker 1: but are you are you surprised that KOFE is getting
Speaker 1: this run with the title and what in your experience
Speaker 1: and knowledge worked either for or against it. I think
Speaker 1: you touched on some of it, but what do you,
Speaker 1: what do you think of the fact that he's there,
Speaker 1: how he's doing in the odds of it happening.
Speaker 3: Well, I am surprised that they finally I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I could say that they pulled
Speaker 3: the trigger on Kofee. I mean, which is odd because
Speaker 3: it's like, he's the champ if you want to put
Speaker 3: the ww Championship ahead of the Universal Championship, which the
Speaker 3: argument could be made either way, but for all intents
Speaker 3: and purposes, he is the champ, which does surprise me
Speaker 3: from a Vince McMahon standpoint. For me as somebody who
Speaker 3: interacted with Kofee, worked with Kofee, and then watched Koffee
Speaker 3: before and after. You know, the word surprise might might
Speaker 3: might not be the best from my perspective, but it
Speaker 3: shouldn't have taken as long. But now that we're here,
Speaker 3: it's great. I don't feel like they pulled the trigger
Speaker 3: on him because in in my opinion, in my you know,
Speaker 3: point of view on on booking Kofee, they should have
Speaker 3: turned him heal because it was when when the New
Speaker 3: Day was healed, I was what was what was really
Speaker 3: surprising to me was how good Kofe is at being
Speaker 3: a heel, being that you know, jovial, having a good time,
Speaker 3: but kind of rubbing my face, you know, rubbing my
Speaker 3: nose and that type of thing. And I think that
Speaker 3: that would elevate him. Him still being part of a trio.
Speaker 3: Doesn't feel like they've pulled the trigger on him, you know,
Speaker 3: him still throwing pancakes to people while it's entertaining. I'm like,
Speaker 3: it doesn't. All he is is he's still that same
Speaker 3: guy but with a belt, whereas if he really is
Speaker 3: going to be like a champion, like and it's such
Speaker 3: an easy story to tell, you know, of like because
Speaker 3: I feel like the New Day is a little stand anyway,
Speaker 3: I think they happened for a while. You can still
Speaker 3: have Xavier and big Eat together as that you know,
Speaker 3: you know, very entertaining baby face combo. But it's such
Speaker 3: an easy story to tell of, Like, you know, the
Speaker 3: belt goes to Kofe's head that he you know, is
Speaker 3: better than them, that he doesn't and you can still
Speaker 3: plug him into a program with Randy because Randy is
Speaker 3: Randy's Randy. Whether he's a baby face or a heel,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, it's it's he's one of those,
Speaker 3: he's almost he's like a big show of like you know,
Speaker 3: the I mean, not the level of flip flopping they
Speaker 3: do with the big show, but it's just kind of
Speaker 3: I don't know, Randy's just kind of there. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 3: it's just he is that thing of like, you know,
Speaker 3: here he is, he's Randy and he's upset again, or
Speaker 3: he's you know, beating somebody up. But yeah, it's it's
Speaker 3: it's they almost On the one hand, they've they've gone
Speaker 3: all the way with Kofe, but I think that they
Speaker 3: could take it further.
Speaker 1: Do you think there's a chance to that. Part of
Speaker 1: the trajectory of Kofe's push at the stage of his
Speaker 1: career is to go heal. I mean, to me, turning
Speaker 1: somebody heel when they're pretty popular is better than turning
Speaker 1: someone heel because their babyface character is cold. So the
Speaker 1: reason not to turn kofee is not because he's getting
Speaker 1: over as a baby face. The reason to turn Koffee
Speaker 1: would be because a people wouldn't see it coming, would
Speaker 1: feel jarring because they're invested in him and care about him.
Speaker 1: And I think that's true with fans right now. But
Speaker 1: I think the risk reward is in favor of a
Speaker 1: heel turn. Now, I think he can be just fine
Speaker 1: as a baby face. I'm not against him staying face.
Speaker 1: But when you're kind of calculating, should we do it,
Speaker 1: would it be a surprise?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: Would he be good at it is you just talked about? Yes,
Speaker 1: Are we losing Stone Cold Steve Austin at his peak
Speaker 1: babyface drawing power? No? Are we losing John Cena, the
Speaker 1: face of the company who can go out to the
Speaker 1: other tradey work? No? And as a heel is he
Speaker 1: gonna be good? Will a shock people? And are their
Speaker 1: opponents that we can line up against them that we
Speaker 1: think will work. If the answer to that is yes,
Speaker 1: I think it's worth considering, especially if they're kind of
Speaker 1: weak on that heel side. So I'm intrigued by that,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, there's a whole whole array of possibilities.
Speaker 1: Do you kind of agree with that calculation approach?
Speaker 3: Oh? Big time? Because I always think of when we
Speaker 3: were getting into the later part of ninety eight. I
Speaker 3: think Stone Cold had gone in for the surgery, maybe
Speaker 3: where a Stone Cold wasn't on TV and it was
Speaker 3: leading into No, it wasn't ninety eight it would have
Speaker 3: been ninety nine when we were leading into that. Was
Speaker 3: it ninety eight? Ye? Yeah, yeah, it was ninety eight.
Speaker 3: It was we were going into the Survivor Series ninety
Speaker 3: eight when they did the tournament title was vacant. Stone
Speaker 3: Cold wasn't on TV, and Rock had been a heel
Speaker 3: that whole summer and into the fall, but like a
Speaker 3: fun heel, like a cool heel that the the people
Speaker 3: were starting to gravitate towards and starting to come around on,
Speaker 3: you know, kind of like Jericho in that exact same
Speaker 3: time period. And when it came down to and it
Speaker 3: was it was one of the most well booked pay
Speaker 3: per views I think that they ever did at WWF
Speaker 3: where it was you know, it finally came down to
Speaker 3: Mankind's and the Rock for the belt and then it
Speaker 3: finally everything made sense all at once. And mcfoley wasn't
Speaker 3: the McMahon's choice. Rock was, you know, the McMahon's choice,
Speaker 3: and Rock was hot going to that, and like he
Speaker 3: was like, you know, like I said, like Stone Cold
Speaker 3: wasn't on TV at that point, and Rock was kind
Speaker 3: of slipping into that spot of like, oh, here's you know,
Speaker 3: the young, hot baby face and then immediately they turn
Speaker 3: him heel and you already had the built in story
Speaker 3: of you know, the fans booed me die, Rocky Die.
Speaker 3: Now the Rocks a millionaire. He's the ww of Champ
Speaker 3: and he's still that same character and was doing even
Speaker 3: better stuff. Was even more effective here. I mean, like Kofi,
Speaker 3: it's it's it's even simpler of like, you know, the
Speaker 3: fans weren't with me, you know, the McMahons weren't with me.
Speaker 3: I do this all on my own. I didn't need
Speaker 3: Xavier and Biggie. I use them and blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: You know, it's it writes itself, and.
Speaker 1: He can I don't know, he can complain about Seth
Speaker 1: at that point. He can complain about Seth and Becky
Speaker 1: being the power couple. They're on the cover of the magazine.
Speaker 1: Seth's the one who's the leader now and here I am.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, I mean there's there's ways to tell
Speaker 1: that story and pluck things out to too where fans
Speaker 1: are kind of rolling their eyes going I get where
Speaker 1: he sees it, but settle down. It's you know, like
Speaker 1: that's that's you don't want him to sound like to
Speaker 1: me Randy on on Tuesday this week sounded too accurate,
Speaker 1: like I wanted to come back when Randy's like, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: you had that one moment ten years ago. Think of
Speaker 1: all the things I've done since that, and to me,
Speaker 1: Kovie didn't respond, the announcers didn't respond, there was no pushback.
Speaker 1: I don't get a little off on a sidebar here,
Speaker 1: but I wanted Kofe to go, Randy, you don't think
Speaker 1: I've accomplished anything in ten years, and then rattle off
Speaker 1: all of his wins. He's had really big moments, maybe
Speaker 1: not at Randy's level, but that's sort of the issue
Speaker 1: of him being the Cinderella story that they're pushing him ass.
Speaker 1: But you don't want to heal the sound, right, is
Speaker 1: kind of my point. No, so when Kofe goes heal,
Speaker 1: the idea would be pluck some things that have a
Speaker 1: touch of reality where fans go ah, and then they
Speaker 1: just think he's overreacting, he's being too dramatic about it.
Speaker 3: M yeah, yeah, I mean there it is. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, well let's let's uh, do you have any
Speaker 1: expectation KOFE doesn't retain the title? I mean, as it
Speaker 1: possibly go into the Fox Era with Randy Orton as
Speaker 1: a champ because he's the legacy star.
Speaker 3: I don't. I mean, look, there's the.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say any chance when I asked these questions, right,
Speaker 1: would you put your money on it?
Speaker 3: Right? I would keep the title on KOFE. Randy is
Speaker 3: you know, Randy's Randy. Randy's just kind of there, and
Speaker 3: he's frankly kind of cold. He's just kind of always cold,
Speaker 3: just because he's just kind of well, he's just Randy.
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Speaker 1: to a streamlined, ad and plug free listening experience with
Speaker 1: a VIP or Patreon membership and when you say grandy,
Speaker 1: you had experiences with him, I mean, give up a
Speaker 1: little insight into what you mean. We know Randy on
Speaker 1: air is Randy, but what is behind the scenes. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've heard stories of him, many stories about him, you know,
Speaker 1: but like it's like he gets his script, he paces
Speaker 1: back and forth, he memorizes it, he delivers it. He's
Speaker 1: got limited things he'll do in the ring. He's confident
Speaker 1: that what he does is enough and sufficient and good.
Speaker 1: Tell me if you think that's sort of right, and
Speaker 1: then add some color to that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think he's a little more of
Speaker 3: a perfectionist as far as his entering goes. And I
Speaker 3: think that you can see in matches when he's not
Speaker 3: getting the response he wants from the crowd, he is
Speaker 3: vocal about that frustration. And it's not in a in
Speaker 3: character way. You know, he gets, you know, frustrated with
Speaker 3: the audience. And clearly he's you know, outrageously talented. He's
Speaker 3: one of the best, absolute best entering workers they have,
Speaker 3: they've ever had since he's been around. But you know
Speaker 3: he's also Randy is uh there to He's at work
Speaker 3: and when it's time to clock out, he's like anybody
Speaker 3: else at their job, he's excited to go home, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean Randy is uh, you know, it's you can
Speaker 3: love your job and still be like when's the day
Speaker 3: going to be over? And he does have a lot
Speaker 3: of that attitude, you know, off camera, but you know,
Speaker 3: I mean it's just as far as on camera, I've
Speaker 3: never fully understood what the Randy Orton character is supposed
Speaker 3: to be. I've always found it a little flat. But
Speaker 3: as far as the actual guy, I mean, he's he
Speaker 3: understands who he is, and he's uh, you know, he's
Speaker 3: Randy and he's he's sometimes he's I mean I've seen him,
Speaker 3: uh the script gets changed and it's kind of like, actually,
Speaker 3: you know what, maybe we don't need Randy this you know,
Speaker 3: this week, and he can actually take off and he's
Speaker 3: thrilled with that. You know, there are some guys who
Speaker 3: would be you know, that would trigger some insecurity would
Speaker 3: be like, what do you mean you don't need me?
Speaker 3: Like Randy's like, great, thank you. You know He's like
Speaker 3: I don't see you, you know. So is that part
Speaker 3: of who he is or is he just secure? Like
Speaker 3: they have really made him feel secure in his job
Speaker 3: and clearly as a viewer. You know, Randy is in
Speaker 3: no uh is no uh a danger of you know,
Speaker 3: not being utilized even when they kind of you know,
Speaker 3: I mean, he's always going to be a top star,
Speaker 3: but you know he's not. He's just hasn't always been
Speaker 3: on the top of the top. You know, he's just
Speaker 3: you know, he's never been a mid card guy, and
Speaker 3: he's never been a you know, a prelim guy. But
Speaker 3: is he kind of always been on the very top
Speaker 3: of the pecking order. No, but he still gets treated
Speaker 3: as such. But you know, Randy's Randy's no bs, and
Speaker 3: he'll tell you exactly what he thinks. He will tell
Speaker 3: you exactly what he thinks to your experience.
Speaker 1: Do the writers and do his colleagues enjoy working with
Speaker 1: him or enter interaction with him with any kind of
Speaker 1: trepidation or just mental preparation, Well, yes.
Speaker 3: And no. I mean, Randy is he's a cool guy
Speaker 3: and he's you know, it's it's you know, interacting with
Speaker 3: him isn't difficult. But he is somebody that when you
Speaker 3: bring him something, you should be prepared for him to
Speaker 3: give his feedback and if he doesn't like something, he
Speaker 3: will tell you and if there is, you know, it's
Speaker 3: kind of an ongoing thing. I would mention on the
Speaker 3: Rewatch Wrestling podcast as I was there at a time
Speaker 3: when they pulled the they kind of threw the gauntlet
Speaker 3: down and they were like, no more punt kick, because
Speaker 3: the feeling was from the higher ups. If if it
Speaker 3: looks worked, it looks kind of lousy, and if it
Speaker 3: looks real, it's because he actually did kick the person
Speaker 3: in the head, and then that's a problem. You know.
Speaker 3: So it was one of these things where it was like,
Speaker 3: you know what, let's just he can't use it anymore.
Speaker 3: And I was there when that came down, and from
Speaker 3: that point forward, that's basically all he wanted to talk about,
Speaker 3: you know, And it became a kind of you know,
Speaker 3: oh so we can hit Paul Bear with a truck,
Speaker 3: but I can't use my punt kick. You know. It's like, oh,
Speaker 3: we can you know, I can threaten this person's life,
Speaker 3: but I can't use my punt kick. And it was
Speaker 3: just kind of like, you know, the interactions I had
Speaker 3: with him. I think he was in a program with
Speaker 3: Kane as a matter of fact at the time, and
Speaker 3: it was just kind of like, you know, I would
Speaker 3: give him the rundown of the show, and he's like, well, X,
Speaker 3: Y and Z can happen, but I can't use my
Speaker 3: punt check. And I'm like, Randy. They talked to Hunter
Speaker 3: about it because I got I did not make the call.
Speaker 3: He knows that, but you know, it's it's just like
Speaker 3: anybody who's who is invested in their you know, art,
Speaker 3: and is frustrated because it's it's you're basically telling someone
Speaker 3: you know that they're not good at what they're doing.
Speaker 3: You know, it's like, well, we're not going to use
Speaker 3: the punt kick because if you're not kicking the person,
Speaker 3: it looks bad. And if you are kicking them then
Speaker 3: then that's not wrestling. So I would I can appreciate
Speaker 3: that level of frustration. You know. I was in a
Speaker 3: movie once where they took a line away from me
Speaker 3: and I and I felt it's building where I'm like,
Speaker 3: I'm not delivering this line well, and then they gave
Speaker 3: it to another actor and then I was like, you
Speaker 3: know what, like that's that's not me. But it's also
Speaker 3: it's like, you know, uh, okay, I get it. I
Speaker 3: get it, but doesn't feel good, But all right, let's
Speaker 3: move on.
Speaker 1: Speaking of moving on, let's uh, let's let's move on
Speaker 1: and introduce ourselves. We've covered one match, Matt, there we go.
Speaker 1: This is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast for Friday,
Speaker 1: September thirteenth, twenty nineteen. Thanks for downloading or streaming the
Speaker 1: show today. I'm Wade Keller, host of the program, and
Speaker 1: I'm joined by Matt McCarthy, an ex WWE Creative Team member,
Speaker 1: professional standup comedian and actor, and also host of the
Speaker 1: Watch Wrestling podcast. He is at McCarthy redhead on Twitter.
Speaker 1: Did I get all that right?
Speaker 3: Matt? You absolutely did all forms of social media at
Speaker 3: McCarthy redhead.
Speaker 1: And tell people more about your podcast and why they
Speaker 1: might be interested in clicking subscribe on that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we watch wrestling podcasts. We do new issues every Wednesday.
Speaker 3: This week we had a live show that we did
Speaker 3: in Los Angeles. There was our sixth anniversary show. And
Speaker 3: next week is our live show that we did in
Speaker 3: Chicago on All Out Weekend, and that show we actually have.
Speaker 3: One of our dear friends is a guest on the show,
Speaker 3: Marty de Rosa from Martin Saya Loves Wrestling and all
Speaker 3: aaw and lots of other amazing things. And me and
Speaker 3: my co host Vin Tabril, we're both comedians and we're
Speaker 3: both die hard wrestling fans, and we have been watching
Speaker 3: our whole lives, and it really is that's the heart
Speaker 3: of the show. We don't typically have guests. It's usually
Speaker 3: just me and Vince just talking and you know, and
Speaker 3: trying to celebrate pro wrestling and not just you know,
Speaker 3: talk about everything that we don't like about it, like
Speaker 3: why they do this, why they do that, and especially
Speaker 3: in this day and age that we're living in right now,
Speaker 3: we are so lucky to be wrestling fans that it's
Speaker 3: like it's it's we're wasting our time if we talk
Speaker 3: about the stuff we didn't like. It's like there's so
Speaker 3: much out there to enjoy, and so, you know, we're
Speaker 3: always going to shows. We went to Chicago the weekend
Speaker 3: before that, we were at the j Cup Finals out
Speaker 3: here in LA and we're gonna go to PWG A
Speaker 3: Battle of Los Angeles next weekend, and you know, just
Speaker 3: really appreciating that. I remember when we first started doing
Speaker 3: the show years ago, it's almost like be careful what
Speaker 3: you wish for, because I found like an old TV
Speaker 3: guide and I was like, you know, if you were
Speaker 3: living in a certain part of the country, all the
Speaker 3: different wrestling that you could be watching. Like when I
Speaker 3: was a kid in the eighties, it's like, you know,
Speaker 3: you had WWF on channel nine and on your Fox
Speaker 3: affiliate or whatever on USA on Monday night, and then
Speaker 3: you watch Saturday night at six oh five pm on TBS,
Speaker 3: and then if you had cable, you could watch maybe
Speaker 3: the Van Erks on ESPN, and you know, maybe you
Speaker 3: had some other cool local thing if you were in
Speaker 3: Memphis or you know, Portland or wherever else now.
Speaker 1: And if you were at a furniture store with your
Speaker 1: mom at age twelve and world class Famia wrestling was
Speaker 1: about to begin in five minutes, you started panicking and
Speaker 1: life was about to come to a complete end if
Speaker 1: we didn't just get out of there and get home.
Speaker 1: That is a very different world. Also, yeah, could go on.
Speaker 1: That's a real story.
Speaker 3: I mean I remember watching like a full morning of
Speaker 3: cartoons on Saturday and my mom coming in the room
Speaker 3: being like, all right, you've been watching two stee me
Speaker 3: go outside and play, and I'm like, no, it's almost noon.
Speaker 3: Like wrestling. Saturday afternoon wrestling is about to start, Like
Speaker 3: I would have not watched the Smurfs and and all
Speaker 3: that stuff and dragons if but man, I could have
Speaker 3: watched wrestling and I got to go upside. But yeah, man,
Speaker 3: now it's like God with the Internet and a EWS
Speaker 3: starting and now Impact is going to be starting on
Speaker 3: Access in October apparently, and it's it's there's a lot, man,
Speaker 3: and I live in Sokow, so I get to go
Speaker 3: to all these cool live shows all the time. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's almost it's almost too much. I almost missed when
Speaker 3: there was no practically no wrestling that you.
Speaker 1: Know, it feels like it might almost speech much. I
Speaker 1: want to talk about all some of that other stuff
Speaker 1: with you as the show progresses. Well, let's not do
Speaker 1: twenty minutes on each of the class matches. I definitely
Speaker 1: enjoyed the KOFE Randy discussion. I'm a little worried if
Speaker 1: we get into the build up to Braun and Rowan.
Speaker 1: Excuse me wrote God Roman? Because of Rowan and Roman,
Speaker 1: I don't want to say them back to back because
Speaker 1: it's a tongue twister. Then I just randomly throw another name.
Speaker 1: Roman reigns Eric Rowan, the who Done It? Storyline as
Speaker 1: a as a discerning viewer, I am of logic and
Speaker 1: all that stuff and discussions we've had before. What has
Speaker 1: been your range of emotions watching this this storyline also
Speaker 1: involving Daniel Bryan and the Rowan look alike, who I
Speaker 1: feel like that was a like a fever dream, like
Speaker 1: that didn't even happen because it just came at the
Speaker 1: end of an episode ever brought up again? Yeah, So anyway,
Speaker 1: your your thoughts on this. I mean, I have somewhat
Speaker 1: facetiously called this the worst storyline in WWE history, and
Speaker 1: I can defend that, but I have to tweak the
Speaker 1: criteria a little bit in order to customize it to
Speaker 1: it being the worst ever. But I can make that case,
Speaker 1: but I have been really frustrated by how sloppy and unprofessional,
Speaker 1: and I just think consulting this whole thing has been
Speaker 1: from the beginning, We're gonna have an attempted murder by
Speaker 1: some heel tell the storyline horribly in a completely illogical way,
Speaker 1: and then in the end, the revenge is a babyface
Speaker 1: who doesn't really talk about it much, trying to pin
Speaker 1: the shoulders to the matt for account of three to
Speaker 1: get revenge for attempted murder. I mean, they're like, the
Speaker 1: whole premise is just flawed. It doesn't fit pro wrestling
Speaker 1: to do murder storylines. And if you're gonna do it,
Speaker 1: do it well. It'll still suck, but at least do
Speaker 1: it well. And they haven't done a wall, so I
Speaker 1: have totally loaded my question. But what have you thought
Speaker 1: of it?
Speaker 3: Mat No? No, I mean, you know, if we exclude
Speaker 3: things that are just downright offensive and bad taste, it
Speaker 3: probably is one of the worst storylines that has been presented. Because, yeah,
Speaker 3: once when the stakes are too high, it can't be
Speaker 3: resolved in a wrestling match, even a no DQ match.
Speaker 3: It's funny now that I have the full card in
Speaker 3: front of me once again, there are way too many
Speaker 3: championships in WWE, because out of eleven matches, this is
Speaker 3: the only non title match.
Speaker 1: I wish they would cancel it because it's class of
Speaker 1: champions on a There should be like a lawsuit brought
Speaker 1: to the district court that this can't even be on
Speaker 1: the class because that would be fine with me, right Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Man, I mean I have basically had, you know, very
Speaker 3: little interest in the you know who who shot Roman storyline?
Speaker 3: You know who killed Jr. It's just but yeah, I
Speaker 3: mean it the guy that kind of looked like Eric
Speaker 3: Rowan having a towel over his head for an entire
Speaker 3: you know, night of SmackDown and just sitting there doing nothing,
Speaker 3: and then they pulled the thing off of his head
Speaker 3: and he's just the older version like it was it
Speaker 3: Rowan Dad what I don't know? And then it I
Speaker 3: don't know. Basically it it's Eric Rowan versus. Do I
Speaker 3: have interest in that match? With or without the build? No?
Speaker 3: And that's really what we're left with. Where is Daniel
Speaker 3: Brian and all this? I have no idea. I could
Speaker 3: see when this all started. I could at least see
Speaker 3: the logic of, all, right, this is they're drawing this
Speaker 3: out further than because this started before SummerSlam. That's crazy
Speaker 3: to think of it in terms of that. And it's
Speaker 3: almost like I was like, Okay, wellther they've been drawing
Speaker 3: this out longer than it would take to get this
Speaker 3: to SummerSlam. If we're going to do Roman Rains versus
Speaker 3: Daniel Brian, now I could at least see the booking
Speaker 3: logic of Okay, we're going to draw this out. We
Speaker 3: can do some TV stuff with Roman Reigns and Eric Rowan,
Speaker 3: because there's more than one heel involved in this thing,
Speaker 3: then they kind of I don't know. I just I've
Speaker 3: worked with Vincent Man and I've heard him say the
Speaker 3: words of oh, you got to take him for a ride.
Speaker 3: So then all of a sudden, once Buddy Murphy's involved,
Speaker 3: I'm like, all right, are we muddying the waters or
Speaker 3: are we just extending this program? Because I'm all for
Speaker 3: a long drawn out program. But the you know, there
Speaker 3: has just been such a there's no logic, you know,
Speaker 3: and it's funny. I mean, it's it's it's you know,
Speaker 3: I've been watching so much Harley Race after he died
Speaker 3: that it was comical to me of like I forgot
Speaker 3: like in a day and age when you know, did
Speaker 3: people still believe in the product? Did they still think
Speaker 3: it was real? Maybe?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Did anyone ever, I don't know. I can't say. But
Speaker 3: the idea that the world heavyweight Champion is on television
Speaker 3: with a briefcase full of money, screaming, somebody take out
Speaker 3: Rick Flair, some collect this twenty five thousand dollars. I'm
Speaker 3: sick of Ric Flair. And then comparing it to a
Speaker 3: legitimate sport. If like Michael Jordan was on the TV
Speaker 3: screaming like I will pay twenty five thousand dollars to
Speaker 3: anyone that will hurt Larry Bird, so he could not
Speaker 3: participate in this basketball game, like get out like anyone,
Speaker 3: Magic Johnson, you can have all this money, just take
Speaker 3: out Larry Bird. I'm sick of Larry Bird. So this
Speaker 3: idea of like, it's not the reason I bring it
Speaker 3: up is like, it's not a brand new idea of Well,
Speaker 3: if I just take out the competition, then I will
Speaker 3: have no competition. So it's is daniel'brien the brains behind this?
Speaker 3: Have they drawn it out too far? Like was it?
Speaker 3: Did Eric Rowan go into business for himself? Like the
Speaker 3: Rakishi thing, hitting Austin with the car and all that.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClellan. We
Speaker 4: host Wrestling Coast to Coast where we scour the wrestling
Speaker 4: scene to find the best wrestling from the smallest places.
Speaker 5: There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling
Speaker 5: Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and
Speaker 5: women be big time stars in a few years.
Speaker 4: There are plenty of podcasts de voters at WW and AW,
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Speaker 4: hotspots around the country.
Speaker 5: We can't wait to help you find the true hidden
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Speaker 3: I don't know, man, It's just I get once this
Speaker 3: whole thing started. The second that something like a bunch
Speaker 3: of scaffolding or whatever it was almost fell on Roman Range.
Speaker 3: I was like, immediately, I feel like I've seen this
Speaker 3: before and I already don't care, you know, from the
Speaker 3: from from the word go, I was like, this has
Speaker 3: just been done. It's just not good at this.
Speaker 1: That's the other thing too that strikes us.
Speaker 3: I think, no, no, I think Vince's Vince is surrounded
Speaker 3: by very talented creative people and and and deaf storytellers.
Speaker 3: But I think the Vince is a promoter, and give
Speaker 3: him something to promote, and if it's a who done it?
Speaker 3: Then Vince's inclination is to put a hat on a
Speaker 3: hat and it's like, well who done it? No, we
Speaker 3: need well who did this? Who did that? What did
Speaker 3: Buddy Murphy c? Who's the man? And then you get
Speaker 3: Vince in the room the next week and he's just
Speaker 3: like he's like, nobody remembers that. Move on now it's
Speaker 3: you know it. There's a there's not a lot of
Speaker 3: give and take with Vince. With the audience. He feels like, well,
Speaker 3: if Vince doesn't remember something, he feels like, well, nobody
Speaker 3: remembers it or Vince has decided that he doesn't care anymore.
Speaker 3: He's also decided that the audience doesn't care anymore. And
Speaker 3: it's like, well, we're making the audience not care by
Speaker 3: not following through on X, Y and Z, and it
Speaker 3: makes it a little more difficult as a viewer, to
Speaker 3: especially a seasoned viewer. It's not thinking, all right, well
Speaker 3: put it this way. With AW I have at LEA
Speaker 3: or New Japan. It's probably a better example because AW
Speaker 3: doesn't have TV yet, But with New Japan, I am
Speaker 3: much more inclined to believe it's going somewhere, and I'm
Speaker 3: much more willing to say, all right, well let's see
Speaker 3: where this is going. And basically, more times than not,
Speaker 3: and I don't even know if it has been a knot,
Speaker 3: there is always payoff, and I can look back and say,
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, look at all the seeds that were planted,
Speaker 3: kind of like that you know, Rock angle from twenty
Speaker 3: years ago leading into that Survivor series. I go back
Speaker 3: and like everything that was presented as oh wow, Rock
Speaker 3: lucked into this. Then I can look back and be like,
Speaker 3: oh wow, that was their plan all along, you know,
Speaker 3: which is that that's what.
Speaker 1: You hope for Yeah, that's what you hoped for. You
Speaker 1: But if you are watching a movie by a director
Speaker 1: that that has a history of not paying things off
Speaker 1: and having the murderer be a new character in the
Speaker 1: last scene, you know you right, you disinvest pretty early
Speaker 1: and that's why you saw The Greats fall over and
Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, but no, this isn't gonna be good.
Speaker 3: Right. But but all that being said, I have enjoyed this,
Speaker 3: you know, series of television, but for all the wrong reasons,
Speaker 3: Like I enjoy watching you know, Canon films or you
Speaker 3: know Edwood movies. Like I was just at I was
Speaker 3: just at a thrift store and I saw a movie
Speaker 3: with Michael Dudakov and I was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: I have to buy this, not because I think Michael
Speaker 3: Dudakov is the world's best actor, but because he was
Speaker 3: in and I was like, oh, this is gonna be preposterous,
Speaker 3: you know, Like like I've been collecting Nick Cage movies.
Speaker 3: Nick Cage is a kind of a I'm digressing now,
Speaker 3: but it is it's like is he good? Is he bad?
Speaker 3: Does he know what he's doing? And there is an
Speaker 3: instrigue there, But I just know that I'm entertained by it.
Speaker 3: With Vince McMahon, there are times when I'm like, I'm
Speaker 3: going to keep watching because I'm just fascinated to see
Speaker 3: what Vince is going to do next, you know, like
Speaker 3: where where is this going to lead us? Because when
Speaker 3: when they pulled the towel off of the old Rowan,
Speaker 3: I was on the floor and I was like, you
Speaker 3: have got to be kidding me. I'm not expecting a
Speaker 3: follow up, but if there is one, I'm on the
Speaker 3: edge of my seat. And you know, there wasn't really
Speaker 3: much a follow up with and I wasn't expecting ones
Speaker 3: to begin with.
Speaker 1: And then we get granny footage that might be Rowan,
Speaker 1: it might be the wrong and look alone right, and
Speaker 1: Brian is one hundred percent convinced it's Rowan, could be
Speaker 1: the wrong lookalike. But unless Brian knows there there like,
Speaker 1: there was no Rowan look alike. He just hired the guy,
Speaker 1: so then he knows it's not him. But Brian, in
Speaker 1: his mind should be thinking, nobody else knows that I
Speaker 1: hired this guy who looks like sort of like Rowan
Speaker 1: to be the culprit, So why am I Why can't
Speaker 1: I just point at the screen and go, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the guy on I took the to hood off
Speaker 1: of last week, like he instantly just gave up Rowan.
Speaker 1: And then we have the confusion over our Rowan and
Speaker 1: Brian both bad guys. Did one of them turn? Who were?
Speaker 1: Who side are we supposed to be on? I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's such a mess. I can't even my brain
Speaker 1: around it. It's so awful now. Writing aside, I think
Speaker 1: that Brian's been fun to watch. Brian's always fun to watch,
Speaker 1: and I thought rowand and I thought Rowan did a
Speaker 1: nice job this week on the promo. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: I don't know what to expect from him in the
Speaker 1: ring in an elevated situation. I think everyone saw Luke
Speaker 1: Carper is a better worker between those two. I still
Speaker 1: don't know quite where this is going. Does Roman just
Speaker 1: beat him and that's it and then we just sort
Speaker 1: of pretend never happened to move on and go to
Speaker 1: Fox or Or is this stage one in Daniel Brian
Speaker 1: being revealed as some sort of mastermind after all, and
Speaker 1: this is to build up Roman versus Brian. But in
Speaker 1: the end, I don't think this storyline has has intrigued
Speaker 1: people enough to be worth the nonsense that it didn't
Speaker 1: have to be this bad. But even if well done,
Speaker 1: you just can't pull off murder storylines where the payoff
Speaker 1: is a wrestling match. Even a hell want to sell
Speaker 1: Brian Rowan a hell and a cell doesn't work. It's
Speaker 1: that shouldn't be how you build up fees in pro wrestlings.
Speaker 1: I mean, I say that about something subjective, but I
Speaker 1: believe that is objectively true.
Speaker 3: No, No, they heightened too much. And then, you know,
Speaker 3: because it's it's like pro wrestling is you know, I mean,
Speaker 3: it's the thing I feel like we talked about it
Speaker 3: last time, and it is that thing of like you
Speaker 3: it's a soap opera. But you can't do the The
Speaker 3: stakes can't be too high because the only payoff is
Speaker 3: going to be a wrestling match, you know, Like it
Speaker 3: can be. It can be we don't get along. It
Speaker 3: can even be I don't know, like like even like
Speaker 3: you know, Dusky Roads getting attacked in the parking lot
Speaker 3: by the four Horsemen. It's like, I guess, on on
Speaker 3: on paper, they could have killed him, you know, like it,
Speaker 3: but I mean it's like, but they broke his arm
Speaker 3: or whatever they did or like you know, Greg Valentine
Speaker 3: breaking Wahoo's leg. It's like that's that's how you start
Speaker 3: a program. Or you know, if we're if we're going
Speaker 3: to start it with physicality, because then it needs to
Speaker 3: end with physicality. It was just gonna start I don't know,
Speaker 3: I mean trying to take somebody out like a you can't.
Speaker 1: Like what every three years you can do something that's
Speaker 1: outside the bounds of because you want to shock people,
Speaker 1: and then you have to do it well, but not
Speaker 1: outside the mounds like attempted murder, but like you know,
Speaker 1: a parking lot attack, like it can really mean something
Speaker 1: if you don't do it a lot, and when you
Speaker 1: do it, you do it well, and you don't do
Speaker 1: it to make a few no one cares about relevant.
Speaker 1: You have to do it to elevate a feud. Because
Speaker 1: fans are so invested, you can kind of get away
Speaker 1: with it. But otherwise, if you're a pro wrestling, if
Speaker 1: you're in the progressing business and you're creating storylines, you're
Speaker 1: vincent man. You're one of the writers. Whatever it. If
Speaker 1: the premise of all your writing isn't that everybody has
Speaker 1: gathered here, all these world class athletes to find out
Speaker 1: who the best professional wrestler is. If that's too boring
Speaker 1: for you and you think no one will want to
Speaker 1: watch it, goes into some other line of business, because
Speaker 1: that's what you're that's the business you're in. Like, you
Speaker 1: can't be in the fast food business and be serving
Speaker 1: burgers and be in your mind constantly be thinking why
Speaker 1: would anyone eat this crap? This is killing America? Like, no,
Speaker 1: you got to go then go work in a health
Speaker 1: food industry. If you're in the progressing industry, you have
Speaker 1: I have to be invested in the idea that we
Speaker 1: can convince our audience. And I say this with no skepticism.
Speaker 1: It can be done. It absolutely has been done and
Speaker 1: can be done and still can be done. That there's
Speaker 1: these outliner's personalities who are tremendous athletes who are incredibly
Speaker 1: entertaining to watch in these simulated combat battles, and they're
Speaker 1: doing it because calling yourself the best pro wrestler is enough.
Speaker 1: That's what we're all fighting over a chance to fight
Speaker 1: for the championship. So we can be Rick Flair with
Speaker 1: the limousines or John Cena with the spinning belt or whatever,
Speaker 1: and like that has to be enough, and if you
Speaker 1: do that, well everything falls into place when you don't
Speaker 1: keep your eye on that and you think, well, who
Speaker 1: would care about that? It's fake? So now we're gonna
Speaker 1: do something even more fake to make up for it,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna do it poorly. You're in the wrong business.
Speaker 1: Move on to something else.
Speaker 3: This isn't your thing, Oh absolutely, I mean that's the thing.
Speaker 3: It's like Vince Dan is a promoter. He thinks of
Speaker 3: himself as well. He thinks of himself as Walt Disney,
Speaker 3: which is even in and of itself wrong. I'm like,
Speaker 3: what he actually thinks he is is Aaron Spelling. I
Speaker 3: think he's the world's greatest television storyteller, which he's not.
Speaker 3: And and it shows the thing with with like it's man.
Speaker 3: When I was a kid, it was it was so
Speaker 3: easy to get in and out of storylines with Hul
Speaker 3: Cogan or even with Stone Cold too, because it was
Speaker 3: like people wanted the belt. That was enough. Like every
Speaker 3: heel could cut a promo, even if they were in
Speaker 3: a TV feud with somebody else, they could still mention
Speaker 3: the Hulk Cogan because he was the one. Like if
Speaker 3: I beat Hulk, then it proves that I'm the best
Speaker 3: because he's got the fucking belty. You know, he's the
Speaker 3: one I want. That was the thing with the Rock.
Speaker 3: It was like he he screwed over mankind, he screwed
Speaker 3: over the world because he wanted the belt, and I
Speaker 3: always come back to that, you know, pockage. They would
Speaker 3: show where it was like the Rock being like I'm
Speaker 3: the WWF champ, I'm a millionaire. You know, it's like,
Speaker 3: what more of that do you need? Like, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm not like, at no point was I like, you know,
Speaker 3: I can't remember. I don't think I've ever gotten behind
Speaker 3: a wrestler because somehow I had the perception of, God,
Speaker 3: this guy makes less money than me. You know, he
Speaker 3: can't even like the Kevin Owens things like I don't know,
Speaker 3: how is he gonna send this kid.
Speaker 1: The other worst storyline of all time this month?
Speaker 3: I mean, my god, it's like, do I want to
Speaker 3: watch this guy kick somebody's butt? Or am I like,
Speaker 3: are we going to pass the hat for him?
Speaker 1: I mean it's like I just want to slip him
Speaker 1: a note and go State colleges are pretty good and
Speaker 1: you can you know, you're just fine. You know, you
Speaker 1: can go work for AW when your contract's up, and
Speaker 1: in one year you'll have enough money to pay for
Speaker 1: your kids and they're still young, and your wife can work.
Speaker 1: There's all kinds of things you can do besides given
Speaker 1: to Shane McMahon's to sabotage the dreams of Chad Gable,
Speaker 1: this underdog who has earned his way into this spot.
Speaker 1: And because you can't fathom how to plan your damn
Speaker 1: kid's education with ten years notice and all these other
Speaker 1: options that are affordable to the people in the audience
Speaker 1: paying money to see you, You're not willing to sc
Speaker 1: over Chad Gable. Don't ever claim her babyface ever again,
Speaker 1: because your character has been ruined.
Speaker 3: Terrible, I know, but it's I can at least watch
Speaker 3: it on a certain level and be entertained, albeit for
Speaker 3: the wrong reasons, but because the only time that I
Speaker 3: I think any wrestling fan gets frustrated with WWE is
Speaker 3: when we expect them to not be WWE once. I mean, god,
Speaker 3: it was years ago I remember hearing about or reading
Speaker 3: about like Daniel Bryan and Cizarro. They realized they were like,
Speaker 3: oh wait, this isn't a wrestling company. This is a
Speaker 3: parody of a Wrestling Company, and once they realized that
Speaker 3: that they they suddenly became comfortable, you know, just showing
Speaker 3: up to work and punching the clock. Yeah, because it's like,
Speaker 3: I mean, talk about two guys that came from you know,
Speaker 3: just spectacular indie careers and then at least Brian broke
Speaker 3: out of it. I mean, the fact that Czarro is
Speaker 3: still kind of just you know, he's just kind of
Speaker 3: in that nebulous state that he's always been in at
Speaker 3: WW it's a shame. But yeah, yeah, man, I mean.
Speaker 1: So man, yes, So they were five days out from
Speaker 1: the Class of Champions when SmackDown airs, and all anybody's
Speaker 1: thinking about, all anybody is thinking about at the end
Speaker 1: of SmackDown is something having to do with Kevin Owens
Speaker 1: and Shane McMahon, who, let me check, are not on
Speaker 1: the Class of Champions. Norah's Chad Gable, Norah's Baron corbyin
Speaker 1: his opponent that's been moved to Raw. So I mean
Speaker 1: it's just like it's I know, they're trying to, you know,
Speaker 1: get ratings up so they don't get too embarrassed with
Speaker 1: viewership leading into Fox. I mean, they're gonna do better
Speaker 1: than reruns on Fridays I've been doing. They're gonna do
Speaker 1: way worse than Monday through Thursday. And Fox should know
Speaker 1: what they're getting, but they want a little better than
Speaker 1: what they're getting based on when they sign a contract,
Speaker 1: and I get Vince's trying to prop that up. Shane
Speaker 1: mcmatagainst Chad Gable is I guess a decent stuff soude
Speaker 1: for a lives, but all the focus is on something
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with trying to get people excited
Speaker 1: about the centerpiece of their WWB network, which is a
Speaker 1: huge chunk of their revenue, the monthly pay per views,
Speaker 1: And so I just I scratched my hat at that.
Speaker 1: I would have ended the show with something SmackDown related,
Speaker 1: either the women's title or the men's title match, to
Speaker 1: kind of hit that crescendo. So that's what people are
Speaker 1: talking about. The Shane Kevin Owen stuff shouldn't have been
Speaker 1: on the on the show because it's so bad, But
Speaker 1: if it was gonna be, it should have been seen
Speaker 1: as a third or fourth from the top issue on
Speaker 1: the show instead of well it's a McMahon's, it has
Speaker 1: to be at the top. That's how I took it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so weird. It almost feels like every step
Speaker 3: of the way with this, you know, Kevin Owens Shane thing,
Speaker 3: it has been like a what are we building towards?
Speaker 3: You know, like that, like I don't remember what show
Speaker 3: they were leading into, but again it was it was
Speaker 3: like that first time that Shane was out there and
Speaker 3: Kevin Owens comes out and almost hijacked the microphones and
Speaker 3: starts running them down. It was like, oh cool, I
Speaker 3: can't wait. It might have even been leading into when
Speaker 3: they were doing Roman Versus Shane, and it was like,
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, they made me want to see
Speaker 3: Shane versus Kevin Owens, but instead on Sunday I was
Speaker 3: gonna be watching Roman Versus Shane. It's just this bizarre misdirection.
Speaker 3: Not even misdirection, because that would be intentional. It's just
Speaker 3: like they're just bad booking.
Speaker 1: Basically, anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or AW
Speaker 1: Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got
Speaker 1: thoughts on the show or a topic you want us
Speaker 1: to address or a question for us. Wadekeller Podcast at
Speaker 1: pwtorch dot com. Wadekeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com if
Speaker 1: there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that you
Speaker 1: want us to address on our main podcast during our
Speaker 1: mailbank segments. That same email applies Wade Keller podcast at
Speaker 1: pw torch dot com. We invite that interaction, let us
Speaker 1: know what you think of what we're saying, and let
Speaker 1: us know what you want us to talk about and
Speaker 1: ask us specific questions. Collor podcast at pw torch dot com.
Speaker 1: How much how much agency did wrestlers ever have when
Speaker 1: you were around and creative that you witnessed, Like, at
Speaker 1: what level did a wrestler get to speak up or
Speaker 1: feel comfortable going I know this has meant through a
Speaker 1: lot of layers to get to me, and it's a
Speaker 1: big deal at this time to bring up that this
Speaker 1: isn't good for my character. It doesn't make sense or
Speaker 1: I don't get it. I mean, is there just no
Speaker 1: time and your wrestlers just kind of have it beaten
Speaker 1: out of them. Your job is just do what you're told.
Speaker 3: People had look nobody hire well they were. I kind
Speaker 3: of saw every different reaction. I don't think at any level,
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think any wrestler ever said I
Speaker 3: know that this has been through a lot of a
Speaker 3: lot of layers before it got here, but usually they
Speaker 3: would just say, well, why the hell would I do that?
Speaker 3: You know? So, you know, if it was like Randy
Speaker 3: Orton or Big Show, I could see them just being like,
Speaker 3: why would I do that? That's dumb, you know. But
Speaker 3: like a John Cena would just would more be interested
Speaker 3: in working with you and be like, Okay, well I
Speaker 3: don't see it that way, but what about this? Or
Speaker 3: like a Chris Jericho would more be like, well get up,
Speaker 3: let me sit down, and he would type up what
Speaker 3: he wanted to do. Whereas like other people who were
Speaker 3: you know, and those are all basically top guys, so
Speaker 3: they felt comfortable doing that. Somebody like or like a
Speaker 3: cmpunk who wasn't who was getting close to being a
Speaker 3: top guy but wasn't quite there yet. When I was there,
Speaker 3: he would very much speak up and be like, why
Speaker 3: the hell would I do that?
Speaker 1: Did he have a good way?
Speaker 3: I even I even saw Matt Striker do that. He
Speaker 3: would be like, well, what's what's the logic there? He's like,
Speaker 3: why would why would my characters say that? And but
Speaker 3: he would listen, he would hear you out. But I
Speaker 3: mean even like you know, even like a Santino or
Speaker 3: or even like Zach Ryder. Not not as aggressive as
Speaker 3: everyone else I mentioned, but you know, they would be
Speaker 3: like they'd be like, well, I don't know, you know,
Speaker 3: because because they care, you know, yeah, but not to
Speaker 3: say he doesn't care, but like somebody like Cain, very
Speaker 3: rarely if ever, would say that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3: You know, Cain was, you know, the easiest guy to
Speaker 3: work with because you would hand him something and he'd
Speaker 3: be like okay, and then he would go and memorize it,
Speaker 3: and then he would go out there and kill it.
Speaker 3: You know. I don't think I still don't think Kine
Speaker 3: gets enough credit for how well he did that character.
Speaker 3: And I feel like he was almost one of the
Speaker 3: guys that he'd almost like a Ted Knight in Caddy
Speaker 3: Show Where, because I will argue that Ted Knight is
Speaker 3: actually the funniest person in that whole movie, and that's
Speaker 3: the movie was like Heavyweights, you know, Bill Murray, Rodney, Dangerfield,
Speaker 3: Chevy Chase, you name it. And I think Ted Knight
Speaker 3: was actually the funniest in that movie because he's so
Speaker 3: good in that movie. You forget that he's an actor
Speaker 3: playing a character. You just assume he's that guy. I
Speaker 3: feel like Kine is kind of in that same class
Speaker 3: of like you almost take Kane for granted, you know,
Speaker 3: it would, I mean granted when you factor in Vince's
Speaker 3: booking of like, oh Kane's coming out, you're like, oh, well,
Speaker 3: here comes a big guy to squash a little guy.
Speaker 3: But in and of itself, I don't think there was
Speaker 3: a moment where we didn't buy Kane as that character.
Speaker 3: And it's such an over the top, ridiculous, you know,
Speaker 3: supernatural character, but we still bought it. You know, it was.
Speaker 3: It's an interesting dynamic there. But you know, I remember
Speaker 3: I was there when aj Lee kind of got her push,
Speaker 3: not kind of where she got her push, when she
Speaker 3: first got paired up with Daniel Bryant, And I mean
Speaker 3: I saw the change from you know, it went from
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, wait, can I just ask you a cool question?
Speaker 3: I'm not sure about this? And you kind of have
Speaker 3: to say to her, Okay, all right, well don't worry
Speaker 3: you're going to kill it. Just go out there and
Speaker 3: kill it, you know. Yeah, Like I remember there was
Speaker 3: that one interaction her and Natty had on TV where
Speaker 3: it was like, Okay, just go out there and just
Speaker 3: pound on her and I think she actually got in
Speaker 3: a couple of potatoes, not intentionally, but Natty I think
Speaker 3: got like a bloody lip or a bloody nose, if
Speaker 3: I remember correctly. And I remember AJ coming back through
Speaker 3: the curtain and she was just kind of like, oh
Speaker 3: my god, is that cool? And everyone's like, you did great.
Speaker 3: And I remember kind of towards the end of the
Speaker 3: that my run there, AJ had gone from I'm sorry,
Speaker 3: can I ask you a cool question? To I don't
Speaker 3: think my character would say that, you know, and it's so,
Speaker 3: is it? You know, I'm not and she was. And
Speaker 3: let me make it clear, like she was wonderful to
Speaker 3: work with, and she was a sweetie pie. I always,
Speaker 3: you know, enjoyed interacting with her. Heard Caitlin were two
Speaker 3: of my favorite people to work with when I was there.
Speaker 3: But it's it gets to the point of, you know,
Speaker 3: how much input are you going to have on your product?
Speaker 3: Because you you are the product. When you're a wrestler,
Speaker 3: it's you're the commodity, you know. I remember being an
Speaker 3: interview with Elizabeth Taylor where she, you know, that's somebody
Speaker 3: who started as a child actor and she realized very
Speaker 3: early on, like, oh, there's a difference between Elizabeth Taylor
Speaker 3: the person and Elizabeth Taylor the commodity. You know, and
Speaker 3: if and if you're savvy enough, and clearly she was,
Speaker 3: she could see the difference and well, what's going to
Speaker 3: affect the other? So, you know, I mean, I think
Speaker 3: somebody like a Big Show or Randy Orton, they were
Speaker 3: kind of more like, you know, why are you making
Speaker 3: me do something? Whereas like, you know, kind of a
Speaker 3: John Cena or or even a Jericho was Jericho is
Speaker 3: probably the best example of somebody who is like, well,
Speaker 3: let's see what makes sense for Jericho. I mean, clearly,
Speaker 3: this is a guy who is invested in his character,
Speaker 3: in his commodity and has clearly I mean talk about
Speaker 3: because I mean it's like, on the one hand, when
Speaker 3: I bring up like, well they should break up the
Speaker 3: New Day, and it's like, well, are we leaving money
Speaker 3: on the table? The New Day's a good you know act.
Speaker 3: It's like, look no further than Chris Jericho. Chris Jericho
Speaker 3: has completely blown up and rebuilt himself how many times
Speaker 3: over the last twenty five years. I mean, it's incredible
Speaker 3: to think of like Jericho in the summer of nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety eight. It's like, why would you change that character?
Speaker 3: It's such a hot character. Whereas it's like how many
Speaker 3: times has he reinvented himself and made it work because
Speaker 3: he cares? You know, I mean the lesser hands you
Speaker 3: could just think of like, oh, Chris Jericho, Oh the
Speaker 3: guy that wore the jacket with the lights in it. God,
Speaker 3: that was like three iterations ago. Yes, you know, why
Speaker 3: would you stop doing the list of Jericho? It's such
Speaker 3: a hot angle, it's such a good thing. It's like,
Speaker 3: because he did it, he's done with it, and now
Speaker 3: he's moved on to something even better. Yeah, you know
Speaker 3: it's yeah, yeah, because I mean, at no point with
Speaker 3: Jericho have you stopped him and like I think he
Speaker 3: made a mistake by moving on to this new thing.
Speaker 3: It's like, no, he moved on to a new thing
Speaker 3: and he's making it work. You know. It's it's incredible. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, so it's it's it's but you know, it's
Speaker 3: some people are are easier to work with than others,
Speaker 3: and some people if they are difficult to work with,
Speaker 3: but you can appreciate why they are invested because that's
Speaker 3: where it is. They're invested. It's not just that I
Speaker 3: don't feel like doing that. I want to play video
Speaker 3: games on my bus. You know, they are genuinely asking you, well,
Speaker 3: why would I do that? You know?
Speaker 1: So, I mean I saw it all going to the
Speaker 1: Class of Champions women's title matches, and all three of them,
Speaker 1: including the taketoitle match, So it's kind of through your
Speaker 1: thoughts on We'll start with Bailey and Charlotte. People. I'm
Speaker 1: in anticipating the Bailey heel turn for a long time,
Speaker 1: anticipating that it might be good for her, because she
Speaker 1: was pretty cold from the beginning coming into the main roster,
Speaker 1: missed opportunity and in a lot of ways, maybe some
Speaker 1: of it's on her, most of it seems to be
Speaker 1: on the way she was presented, and then this awkwardness
Speaker 1: if she turns heel when she's pretty cold. But you know,
Speaker 1: with a championship I think it means a little more.
Speaker 1: And her first match is against Charlotte, who we have
Speaker 1: been conditioned to not like respect, but she is full
Speaker 1: of herself and a bully and arrogant and all that.
Speaker 1: Not the best first opponent if you're trying to gain
Speaker 1: momentum turning heel. So that's the I don't know why
Speaker 1: that happened. Maybe it'll come maybe it'll become clear over
Speaker 1: the next few days or few weeks. But so that's
Speaker 1: my little setup for that. What do you think of
Speaker 1: the Bailey turn and the Charlotte match? What do you
Speaker 1: expect on Sunday?
Speaker 3: Well? I never know what to expect because Vinc mcman
Speaker 3: has the pencil. But what it comes down to is,
Speaker 3: I don't I tend to agree that match seems to
Speaker 3: be basically a little out of left field. I think
Speaker 3: because Charlotte's kind of a it's kind of a strange beast,
Speaker 3: at least meaning the way that they book her and
Speaker 3: present her. Because I would think Bailey needs a strong win,
Speaker 3: and when you put her in there with Charlotte, I
Speaker 3: feel like Charlotte can lose and be okay. But I
Speaker 3: could almost see them having Charlotte win and just, you know,
Speaker 3: kind of stifle any momentum that they might have had
Speaker 3: with Bailey going into this. I don't know. I would
Speaker 3: prefer to see Bailey win, even if it is kind
Speaker 3: of I'm not I prefer pinfalls and submissions, but this
Speaker 3: is a situation where I would not be disappointed or
Speaker 3: upset in any way if there was a kind of
Speaker 3: a screwy DQ finish. You know, I'm not not the
Speaker 3: biggest proponent of you know, Bailey intentionally gets herself DQ
Speaker 3: type of thing to you know, lose the match, retain
Speaker 3: the title. But I feel like it could work in
Speaker 3: this situation because it's she's a new heel. You know,
Speaker 3: we're still as a ww audience where kind of excited
Speaker 3: that she's a heel now, you know, especially somebody like Bailey,
Speaker 3: where we've it's just this weird bizarro world of like
Speaker 3: watching WWTV where I'm like, this babyface keeps getting you know,
Speaker 3: jerked around. Why doesn't they Why don't they just turn heel?
Speaker 3: And it's like it's this, it's this backwards booking of
Speaker 3: like I want them to turn heel so they are
Speaker 3: standing up for themselves, right, No, that's what the babyfaces
Speaker 3: should be doing in the first place. You know, It's
Speaker 3: it's this, it's this bizarro land. So it's basically I
Speaker 3: want to watch Bailey go nuts and just beat the
Speaker 3: craft out of Charlotte the point where I know that
Speaker 3: I'm not going to sympathize with Charlotte. I'm going to
Speaker 3: be excited that Bailey is snapped. But I can see
Speaker 3: in the you know, w w E vistminctmahan bubble of
Speaker 3: that that's supposed to make me sympathize with Charlotte, and
Speaker 3: it's supposed to make me think, well, Bailey's a loose
Speaker 3: cannon and she can't be trusted and she's she's over
Speaker 3: the line, out of control. Maybe there's a way to
Speaker 3: pull that off, but I don't know. I just feel
Speaker 3: like Bailey needs some I mean, basically, it's like it's
Speaker 3: kind of the Jericho thing of like, Okay, if she's
Speaker 3: not Bailey giving hugs anymore than who is she? She
Speaker 3: needs to change her look, change her outfit, change the hair,
Speaker 3: changed the whole thing. And if she doesn't understand who
Speaker 3: she is, then me as a viewer, I'm not gonna
Speaker 3: understand who she is. And is this thing already dead
Speaker 3: in the water. I guess that remains to be seen.
Speaker 3: Certainly Sunday will be a good test for it, because
Speaker 3: if she is still just you know, side ponytail, you know,
Speaker 3: but I'm you know, mean now, part of it doesn't compute.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm it's truly in the process to
Speaker 1: tell for sure. I mean, I think she can co
Speaker 1: opt is orb of a co opt the ponytail and
Speaker 1: blow up balloons and stuff in sort of an ironic
Speaker 1: way where she's the delusional or fraudulent, the fraudulently delusional Bailey,
Speaker 1: where she thinks she's still a baby face explaining that
Speaker 1: I am still the same person. I haven't changed. Why
Speaker 1: aren't you booing me? I've got And then you can
Speaker 1: sort of like maybe boo her in that context, as
Speaker 1: opposed to her suddenly just coming out like Craig Gania
Speaker 1: became Rambo when Sergeant Slaughter started training him, and Bailey
Speaker 1: just has this huge transformation where people like, eh, I
Speaker 1: don't know if that's her, but part of me was
Speaker 1: looking forward to seeing a transformation and seeing what she
Speaker 1: looked like when she did present herself with a completely
Speaker 1: different attitude and edge. I think that would have more
Speaker 1: impact if she just suddenly comes out with a completely
Speaker 1: different look and people like, oh my god, that other
Speaker 1: thing was just fraudulent marketing, and now we're seeing the
Speaker 1: real her and I don't like this, and the kids
Speaker 1: are booing her and like to me, that's a gift
Speaker 1: to babyfaces fighting her more than the ironic maybe too
Speaker 1: clever by half approach.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I do like that idea of her
Speaker 3: still thinking she's a babyface, but she's you know, actually
Speaker 3: a piece of craft. That's that's interesting. I think there's
Speaker 3: also there could be something. I mean, it's almost like
Speaker 3: the thing that they've been doing with bray Wyatt, but
Speaker 3: kind of like a almost like a joint the clown
Speaker 3: thing where it's like I'm acting like I'm happy and
Speaker 3: I'm nice and I'm friendly, but I'm actually sadistic and evil.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 3: There there could if they go in that direction, it
Speaker 3: would be it would almost be because with bray Wyatt,
Speaker 3: I'm expecting the shoe to drop. You know, at no
Speaker 3: point did I buy the mister Rogers thing, right, But
Speaker 3: if if say, like Bailey was to show up on
Speaker 3: the Firefly fun House, that would kind of leave a
Speaker 3: pit in my stomach, you know, like of like, oh god,
Speaker 3: you know, like she's she's a demon now, you know,
Speaker 3: whereas I don't know, I just it just feels like
Speaker 3: she's she's a heel by association, but really she's still
Speaker 3: just this babyface fighting from underneath things. It's I mean,
Speaker 3: it's it's so funny. It's like there's room for subtle
Speaker 3: piece and pro wrestling. But it's like with Vince McMahon booking,
Speaker 3: it's like it's also it's still pro wrestling. There should
Speaker 3: be a clear good guy and a clear bad guy,
Speaker 3: you know, and.
Speaker 1: It's there should be strong there should be strong feeling,
Speaker 1: like I think if you can instructed. So some people
Speaker 1: we had hung up on, well they're baby facing heels.
Speaker 1: It's pass or it's too simple. It's like, what you're
Speaker 1: going for in pro wrestling is strong emotional investment in
Speaker 1: the characters. And then the second thing you're going for
Speaker 1: is you want to have a home team and an
Speaker 1: away team. You want to be rooting for the Packers
Speaker 1: or against the Packers, for the Cowboys or against the Cowboys,
Speaker 1: because that's where the emotion is. So therefore, call it
Speaker 1: what you want. But as you present these characters, it's
Speaker 1: hard to have sixty percent of the audience like some
Speaker 1: in forty nine and have that also work for the opponent,
Speaker 1: because now the opponent's in a POSI show. What if
Speaker 1: they worked hard to get a hundred percent of people,
Speaker 1: not to like them or one hundred percent of people
Speaker 1: to like them, and now they're against an opponent where
Speaker 1: he's peeling off or she's peeling off forty to sixty
Speaker 1: percent of those fans for her character and everything's muddy.
Speaker 1: So it because it doesn't work with nuance like it
Speaker 1: does in Breaking Bad or you know, a heavily scripted
Speaker 1: thirteen thirteen episode per season or eight episode per season
Speaker 1: type thing where there's craftsmanship in years that go into it.
Speaker 1: You kind of have to go with Babyface and Heel
Speaker 1: and the goal should be one hundred percent years. Ninety
Speaker 1: eight percent of the time it should bee hundred percent years.
Speaker 1: Is a goal for one one hundred percent boost.
Speaker 3: For the other.
Speaker 1: That should be the goal, and if someone else is
Speaker 1: trying to be nuanced, it blows up the whole system.
Speaker 7: I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star podcast, the
Speaker 7: new Ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan
Speaker 7: pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and
Speaker 7: noteworthy events dictate.
Speaker 8: And I'm Chris Lansdow join us as we covered the
Speaker 8: ever changing landscape of New Japan as they navigate an
Speaker 8: era with no lack of talent but a real need to.
Speaker 9: Create some new styles.
Speaker 8: You can stream the new seven Stop podcasts now from
Speaker 8: Pro Wrestling Talk.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's good deal, right. Because there's the difference
Speaker 3: between pro wrestling and a scripted drama is because there
Speaker 3: can be nuanced, there can be subtlety, there can be
Speaker 3: you know, depth or or whatever in pro wrestling. But
Speaker 3: it's like when it comes down to it with with
Speaker 3: a scripted drama, is there's the endgame is murky, So
Speaker 3: it's like there's some subtlety. Where is this going? Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm interested, I'll I'll go on this ride with you,
Speaker 3: on this journey. Whereas with pro wrestling, it's there's going
Speaker 3: to be a winner and a loser, so there should
Speaker 3: be a hero and a villain. You know. It's it's
Speaker 3: much less of a you know, hour sixty minute drama
Speaker 3: as it is a comic book. And with comic books
Speaker 3: there are clearly gifted creators and writers and who can
Speaker 3: tell a very nuanced, you know, multi layered story and
Speaker 3: it can get into you, well, what is good, what
Speaker 3: is evil? What is you know? All this, but at
Speaker 3: the end of the day, it's you know the difference
Speaker 3: between Watchmen and class of Champions is at the end
Speaker 3: of Class of Champions, I'm going to see who the
Speaker 3: winner is and who the loser is. And at the
Speaker 3: end of Watchman, I'm left thinking, oh my gosh, what
Speaker 3: is right? What is wrong? Who watches the Watchman?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 3: Where, Like if it's AJ and Cedric, I'm like, all right,
Speaker 3: well I like Cedric, I don't like AJ. I want
Speaker 3: Cedric to win. You know, pro wrestling doesn't need to
Speaker 3: be complicated. It can be nuanced. But once we start
Speaker 3: complicating it, once we have you know, a guy that
Speaker 3: looks like Eric Rowan and where's Daniel Bryan and who
Speaker 3: is you know, it's just like you've lost.
Speaker 1: The plot or just competing. Like I just don't think
Speaker 1: the goal should be that fans are torn, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I mean again, there's a there's a one out
Speaker 1: of fifty exception. I mean, you know, like I'm not
Speaker 1: saying it's a hard fatter one hundre percent of the time,
Speaker 1: but like ninety eight percent of the time. You want
Speaker 1: one hundred percent of the fans. You hope one hundred
Speaker 1: percent of the fans are rooting for a guy one
Speaker 1: percent against him? Yeah, because I can yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, Like I don't. I don't have to hate Jumbo
Speaker 3: Seruta to be rooting for Mitsuhara Massawa. You know, I'm
Speaker 3: just I'm excited, and I can be excited that Massawa
Speaker 3: just beat Jumbo, but like it doesn't make me. I
Speaker 3: don't have to hate Jumbo to like Massawa, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean it's like that's the reason that the g
Speaker 3: One Climax Tournament works because I'm watching the top tier
Speaker 3: competitors competing against each other, so I do get to say,
Speaker 3: all right, well, well who would win? Who is going
Speaker 3: to be? You know, even like Pogan and Andre, It's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: but the Andre turned it worked on on one hand,
Speaker 3: it was almost forced too, because it's like I want
Speaker 3: to have an emotional investment. Sure, Andre getting paired up
Speaker 3: with Bobby Heenan, that's the worst thing he could have done,
Speaker 3: you know, you know, it's it's it's it's the But
Speaker 3: I mean, ultimately it came down to Andre was challenged
Speaker 3: for the belt. You know, it was clear that that
Speaker 3: Bobby had gotten into his head. You know, it was
Speaker 3: it was clear that Andrea had changed. Andre wasn't Andre anymore?
Speaker 3: Do we want to even go further down the rabbit
Speaker 3: hole of like, well, how did Bobby get to Andre?
Speaker 3: The previous storyline was that Bobby was trying to get
Speaker 3: Andre banned for life, and then Andre shows up underneath
Speaker 3: the mask and he's the giant machine. Did somewhere along
Speaker 3: the way did Bobby finally get the goods on Andre?
Speaker 3: But instead of sending Andre out the pasture and banning
Speaker 3: him for life from WWF, he starts talking with Andre
Speaker 3: and working with Andre, and then he sees I can
Speaker 3: exploit Andre and like, this is my finally, my chance
Speaker 3: to get my hands on a competitor who can win
Speaker 3: that championship. Clearly this is the guy that can beat
Speaker 3: hul Kogan and then we're off and running into the
Speaker 3: WrestleMania three. I mean, there's nuance, there's subtlety, there's depth
Speaker 3: to it, But when it comes down to it, that's
Speaker 3: if I really want to be a hardcore Like I
Speaker 3: am so invested wrestling fan, and I'm following this storyline
Speaker 3: every single week, every single thing, back and forth. He
Speaker 3: rips off the shirt, he rips off the crucifix, Hogan's
Speaker 3: chest is bleeding like blah blah blah blah blah. But
Speaker 3: if I'm just you know, Joe Schmoe on the street,
Speaker 3: who doesn't know anything from Adam. If you're just presented
Speaker 3: with we got Hulk Hogan fighting Andrea the Giants, it's like, well,
Speaker 3: who would win that fight? You know? The immovable object
Speaker 3: in the irresistible force. That's enough in and of itself.
Speaker 3: If we want to add color to it and add
Speaker 3: a story to it, then that's that's even better, you know.
Speaker 3: But it's it's just give me something to watch, give
Speaker 3: the promoter something to promote. That's that's enough in and
Speaker 3: of itself. The young guy versus the established guy, all right,
Speaker 3: now I'm interested. You know, the tough guy versus the
Speaker 3: even tougher guy. Well, who would win that fight? You know,
Speaker 3: It's just it doesn't need to be more than that.
Speaker 3: It doesn't need to be you know. Well, then then
Speaker 3: they drove them out to the desert, desert, and they
Speaker 3: buried them alive. It's just like, well, now now you've
Speaker 3: lost me. Now I'm now I'm confused. At no point
Speaker 3: should a wrestling fan be confused. You know, it's it's
Speaker 3: it's good versus evil. It's and even beyond good versus evil,
Speaker 3: it's right versus wrong. Yeah, it's the pursuit of it's
Speaker 3: the pursuit of justice. That's why it's so confusing, like
Speaker 3: watching w W E t V because I'm like, well,
Speaker 3: where where is the justice? What? What? What am I?
Speaker 3: What am I rooting for? And then you get into
Speaker 3: a place where it's like, well, if nothing matters, then
Speaker 3: it's absolute chaos. And then I'm just gonna cheer the
Speaker 3: people you tell me to boo, and I'm gonna boo
Speaker 3: the people you tell me to share because it's it
Speaker 3: has It's like it's they have forced their audience. WWE
Speaker 3: and Vince mcgham have forced their audience into being heath
Speaker 3: Ledgers of the Joker. And now I'm just going to
Speaker 3: show up because I want to watch the world burn.
Speaker 3: Now I'm just you know, it's it's that's that is
Speaker 3: a strange place to be in as a wrestling fan,
Speaker 3: where it could not be easier to get a wrestling
Speaker 3: fan excited. Give me something that I want to see,
Speaker 3: you know, as opposed to well, I'm going to show
Speaker 3: up and can I sneak this beach ball in? You
Speaker 3: know how much chaos can I cause as a wrestling fit?
Speaker 3: Can I chant something? You know that's going to distract.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just it's I'm just excited for a
Speaker 3: ew because I need a mainstream alternative here in the
Speaker 3: United States. You know, it's nice when New Japan shows
Speaker 3: up into into town and I get to go to
Speaker 3: PWG like once a month or every couple of months.
Speaker 3: But man, oh man, oh man. As far as a
Speaker 3: TV product, I mean, it's like I don't even know
Speaker 3: what channel Impact is on anymore. I mean, I guess
Speaker 3: now what they're on Access Now, we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 3: But I mean the first instagram like picture I saw
Speaker 3: of the full Impact roster and it says coming to
Speaker 3: Access TV, And when I zoom in, honestly, my first
Speaker 3: thought was, oh, my gosh, it is the greatest collection
Speaker 3: of wasted talent on Impact TV. Because it's just it's
Speaker 3: like so many fantastic people, both on camera and behind
Speaker 3: the scenes, and it is just they I don't know
Speaker 3: if they'll ever be able to overcome that TNA stink
Speaker 3: that had been collected over the last decade more, you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just it's it's it breaks my heart
Speaker 3: to see it, Like I need a clean slate. Aw
Speaker 3: feels like a clean slate you know, we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 3: I'm just excited for more wrestling, and hopefully it's fantastic
Speaker 3: because everything else I've seen up until this point has
Speaker 3: been Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely no, so beax. Any thoughts on that match, Sasha's return,
Speaker 1: and how they've been promoting and presenting Becky, Yeah, well, I.
Speaker 3: Mean it'll be an interesting match, but I mean it is.
Speaker 3: It's like, gosh, Becky Lynch was again like talk about
Speaker 3: you know, somebody that they were trying to be a
Speaker 3: heel and then winds up becoming the most over babyface
Speaker 3: of the last few years, and then well it's now
Speaker 3: Vince McMahon. You hit him like, here's a hot baby
Speaker 3: face there, and it's like, oh God, the last thing
Speaker 3: you want is a hot baby face. We got to
Speaker 3: cool her off. They gotta pair up with Lacey Evans. Yeah,
Speaker 3: now we're gonna I mean, it's just it, Becky was
Speaker 3: so hot going into Mania, and then coming out of Mania,
Speaker 3: you get that program with Lacey and it's like, I
Speaker 3: don't know if this is the right pairing, and then
Speaker 3: of course it's just it's just perfect Vince McMahon logic.
Speaker 3: Of course, the next thing they pair up Becky with
Speaker 3: is are returning Sasha Banks? Who all right, let's turn
Speaker 3: her heel. I love Vince's idea that you can have anybody,
Speaker 3: anybody off of team for the amount of time that
Speaker 3: Sasha Banks was off and think, oh, I can just
Speaker 3: make her a heel It's like no, They're gonna cheer
Speaker 3: her no matter what she does. And we are at
Speaker 3: a day and age, and then to pair up with
Speaker 3: Becky Lynch of all people, I'll have her turn heel on. Becky,
Speaker 3: It's like you are hurting, Becky, you already have like
Speaker 3: it's anybody else have a be God, what what is
Speaker 3: it gonna take for me to get a Bailey versus
Speaker 3: Sasha match? You know, what what is it gonna take
Speaker 3: for me to get that program? You know, if it
Speaker 3: was Bailey versus Sasha right now, that would be hot.
Speaker 3: And then like Bailey attacking or returning Sasha, that might
Speaker 3: actually be an effective heel turn, you know, or or
Speaker 3: Sasha comes back and beats up Becky. I mean that
Speaker 3: might even be an effective heel turn, because like I'm
Speaker 3: gonna cheer Sasha because she's back, but she shows back
Speaker 3: up and then she's finally beating up her friend. I
Speaker 3: don't know. It's just like if they just I mean,
Speaker 3: do I feel like I seen Becky versus Charlotte a
Speaker 3: million times already? Yeah? Could Becky be paired up with
Speaker 3: I don't know whoever? Anyone else on the ride? I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't know elect the Bliss. I know she's in that.
Speaker 3: You know the tag with Nikki Cross And I called
Speaker 3: it as soon as it started out.
Speaker 1: I've reced it. I've given you credit for calling that
Speaker 1: one on podcasts since then.
Speaker 3: I mean, I saw it coming a million miles away.
Speaker 3: I'm like, you guys don't know. Vince McMahon, it's he's
Speaker 3: gonna say we got to take him for a ride,
Speaker 3: and then he's gonna forget about it. He's gonna be like, no,
Speaker 3: they're actually best friends. What are you talking about that
Speaker 3: they're go shopping together? What do women do? They talk
Speaker 3: on the phone, they do each other's nails. I don't know.
Speaker 3: And with with Becky and Becky and Sasha in and
Speaker 3: of itself from Bell to Bell, it's gonna be a
Speaker 3: great match as far as the logic and the storytelling
Speaker 3: going into it and coming out of it, I feel
Speaker 3: like they could be doing a better job with Becky
Speaker 3: if they just let Becky be stone cold and looked
Speaker 3: at it that way. And I don't know, it's it's
Speaker 3: it's too soon. It just feels like it's too soon
Speaker 3: for for Sasha and Becky. It's it's because it's like Sasha,
Speaker 3: for lack of a better comparison, is she kind of
Speaker 3: like the you know, the rock. If Becky's gonna be
Speaker 3: stone cold, we could have Sasha be the rock because
Speaker 3: she's you know, she can run her mouth, she can
Speaker 3: work in the ring. And then you know, it almost feels,
Speaker 3: I don't know, it just feels like this could be
Speaker 3: next year's Mania, you know, Becky and Sasha. Instead, we've
Speaker 3: just kind of thrown it together and it's and it's
Speaker 3: just kind of sitting there on Clasha Champions. I don't know,
Speaker 3: It's just Vince is so fixated on doing everything at
Speaker 3: once that once we rush towards something, it feels flat,
Speaker 3: and once we draw something out, it gets so convoluted
Speaker 3: that once we get there, it feels flat. Like when
Speaker 3: we finally do get to if we are even say
Speaker 3: we finally do get to Roman reigns us Is Daniel
Speaker 3: Bryan and by the time we get there, am I
Speaker 3: gonna care anymore? You know? It doesn't need to be complicated,
Speaker 3: and I feel like the old man over complicates, but
Speaker 3: constantly I I am gonna. I'm gonna watch the match
Speaker 3: and probably enjoy it very much.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm hoping somebody does a show where there's a
Speaker 1: match and then there's an announcing interviews the wrestler and
Speaker 1: the wrestler spent all day alone with friends, with some
Speaker 1: help from veterans coming up with some stuff to say,
Speaker 1: and then they talk about it to try to help
Speaker 1: sell their character and sell their match, and then we
Speaker 1: move on to the next like it's just you know,
Speaker 1: Jared Jarrett used to tell me, I write I write
Speaker 1: the Memphis TV Show on the back of a three
Speaker 1: and a half by five no card in the back
Speaker 1: of the limousine on the way to the on the
Speaker 1: way to the TV studio. Because a wrestling show, the
Speaker 1: beauty of a wrestling show isn't in the in how
Speaker 1: much you plan ahead. It's seeing an outline come to life.
Speaker 1: And that has been taken away from wrestlers and many
Speaker 1: you know, Kevin Owens tweeted out three numbers that match
Speaker 1: up an X in terms of the number, the letter
Speaker 1: number in the alphabet. I don't know if he was
Speaker 1: if that was a hope a wish, like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is awful, and I just want to get over
Speaker 1: to NXT where my character would be taken care of
Speaker 1: or it was meant to be, you know, foreshadowing what
Speaker 1: is already planned. But I mean, there's wrestlers who just
Speaker 1: want to go work for work in NXT and make
Speaker 1: a living and be happy because things had, like you said,
Speaker 1: become just too complicated and arbitrary. You know, Alexa Bliss,
Speaker 1: is she a face or a heel? Wasn't when she, like,
Speaker 1: not that long ago, she'd have been the one making
Speaker 1: fun of Nicky Cross's looks and talking about beautiful She isn't.
Speaker 1: Now she's the one teaming with her and defending her
Speaker 1: against Mandy Rose, who's insulting Niki Cross's looks. And it's
Speaker 1: like Vince doesn't remember or think that these wrestlers have
Speaker 1: this trail of actions and traits that should logically lead
Speaker 1: to what they do this weekend. Next week. You don't
Speaker 1: have to wait for the way Keller Pro Wrestling post
Speaker 1: show to find out what I thought of Monday night
Speaker 1: Raw and SmackDown. Each week. You can check out my
Speaker 1: reports that are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown at
Speaker 1: pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell you what's
Speaker 1: happening in detail in case you missed the show, and
Speaker 1: it will also analyze key segments and give my random
Speaker 1: thoughts quips on what I'm watching as it airs. So
Speaker 1: check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night at
Speaker 1: pwtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. I cover
Speaker 1: those live at pw torch dot com with a detailed
Speaker 1: written report with star ratings. And of course you can
Speaker 1: find other TV reports from other contributors to PW torch
Speaker 1: such as nxt ROH, Impact Wrestling and more. Check it
Speaker 1: out pwtorch dot com your first stop for TV and
Speaker 1: pay per view written reports.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh my god. I mean, it's like the
Speaker 3: reason that The Simpsons has been on since I was
Speaker 3: a boy is because those are clearly defined characters. And
Speaker 3: I mean, has that show run out of steam? I
Speaker 3: mean it's tough for me to say, because I stopped
Speaker 3: watching it, so it ran out of steam for me,
Speaker 3: you know, But it was how many different situations can
Speaker 3: you come up with for them? I mean, but my
Speaker 3: point is there are things that it would make sense
Speaker 3: for Bart Simpson and Homer Simpson to do, and then
Speaker 3: there are things that it makes sense for Lisa Simpson
Speaker 3: and Marge Simpson to do. And for me as a fan,
Speaker 3: what when I started losing interest in the Simpsons was
Speaker 3: when and I can pinpoint it too. There there was
Speaker 3: an episode where Marge of all the characters too, where
Speaker 3: Marge didn't feel like she was acting like Marge anymore.
Speaker 3: And then I was like, or even right before that,
Speaker 3: when they did the whole thing with Principal Skinner, right
Speaker 3: and they did a whole episode about how it turned
Speaker 3: out that Principal Skinner wasn't actually Principal Skinner, that he
Speaker 3: was this other guy who stole Skinner's identity back in Vietnam,
Speaker 3: and then they tell this whole convoluted story for no
Speaker 3: reason other than we just got to fill up thirty minutes.
Speaker 3: And then by the end of that episode they had
Speaker 3: taken one of the most beloved characters with a clearly
Speaker 3: defined parameter and then they just put a hat on it,
Speaker 3: and then put a hat on the hat, and then
Speaker 3: by the end of it. I was like, you know what,
Speaker 3: this is actually undone so much storyline leading up to
Speaker 3: it and now coming out of it, Why am I
Speaker 3: going to have an investment as a viewer in anything
Speaker 3: involving basically anyone. It's just it becomes a parody of itself.
Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden, it's like I found
Speaker 3: myself flipping around the channels because I'm like, well, what
Speaker 3: what what am I? What am I watching for? Why
Speaker 3: am I supposed to? If you don't care? Why do
Speaker 3: I care? Yeah? It's I mean, it's it's it's it's
Speaker 3: the most it's the easiest principle to remember in entertainment.
Speaker 3: You know, if if you're having if you're not having
Speaker 3: a good time, why am I going to have a
Speaker 3: good time? You know, if you don't care, I don't care.
Speaker 3: You know, I'll find somebody that does. It's it's it's
Speaker 3: like a less the Bliss that is a simple, sharp character,
Speaker 3: and it's so she's a mean girl. You know, she's
Speaker 3: a mean girl, and she's a coward and she's a manipulator.
Speaker 3: And now all of a sudden she's best friends with
Speaker 3: Nikki Cross and I have no idea why, you know,
Speaker 3: and now there's now a chimps.
Speaker 1: It's it's disappointing. It's disappointing, That's what it is. I mean, like,
Speaker 1: it's disappointing. As a viewer. You want, you want, That's
Speaker 1: what I tell people like, I don't I don't want
Speaker 1: to be a hater. I don't want to be critical.
Speaker 1: It's like, you, you deserve to be to hold this
Speaker 1: form of entertainment that you love, and a billion dollar
Speaker 1: company that should be able to do a better job
Speaker 1: than it's doing you. You you deserve to be able
Speaker 1: to vent. You deserve to be able to you. It's
Speaker 1: okay to expect a higher standard. You shouldn't apologize and
Speaker 1: be a loyalist, a blind loyalist to your WWE tribe
Speaker 1: that you feel you belong to. You you actually deserve better,
Speaker 1: and it's okay to express that without feeling like you're
Speaker 1: being disloyal.
Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you this, man. I mean, the most
Speaker 3: common question I would get after I was done working
Speaker 3: at WWE wash do you still enjoy watching the product?
Speaker 3: And I would I would always say the same thing.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh, I enjoy it more now because now
Speaker 3: everything makes sense, because now I've seen how it goes.
Speaker 3: Like I've been in the kitchen, So now that the
Speaker 3: Hamburgers makes sense to me, I'm like, oh god, you know,
Speaker 3: it's like you go to itcause every storyline that got dropped,
Speaker 3: every joke that didn't work, every guy that stops getting
Speaker 3: a push, everything that like why why did that happen?
Speaker 3: Like what what? What? What was that supposed to be?
Speaker 3: It all makes sense. Now I have a more complete picture,
Speaker 3: and I can appreciate the product even more now, you know,
Speaker 3: and and and and I can find entertainment in it,
Speaker 3: you know, beyond uh, simply just seeing what's on the screen,
Speaker 3: you know, being able to see behind the curtain. I
Speaker 3: was like, oh, now I've got the whole story, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, what do you think about making fun of
Speaker 1: Nicky Cross Mandy rosa heel making fun of Nicky Cross's
Speaker 1: looks from a from a mean girl standpoint, like alection
Speaker 1: of Bliss's man? Is that is that? Does is it okay?
Speaker 1: Is that within the bounds of wrestling? Is it? Is
Speaker 1: it okay? Within the bounds of some wrestling but not WWE?
Speaker 1: That's also doing Connor's cure spots and and is on
Speaker 1: Fox Prodcasts work and be a hero. You know, you
Speaker 1: can be a superstar and they're running all these camping
Speaker 1: does it fit the mode? Is? It may be okay,
Speaker 1: but not the best thing to do. Like, where are
Speaker 1: you on that? I mean, I know I have a
Speaker 1: feeling there was some a level of apology and self
Speaker 1: self awareness behind the scenes amongst the women that maybe
Speaker 1: this is going to look make. You know, I can
Speaker 1: imagine Mandy Rose having to do this and wondering what
Speaker 1: people are gonna think of her, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Even though people know it's scripted and all that, there's
Speaker 1: still that weird thing where wrestlers feel like people think
Speaker 1: they are their character on air some of the time.
Speaker 1: I don't know, So, yeah, your thoughts on it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's just kind of what's the word
Speaker 3: I'm looking for. It's just it just feels a little
Speaker 3: played out. But there's a way to do that without
Speaker 3: doing it, you know, like like like with like like
Speaker 3: Rick Flair and Ricky Steamboat. You know, like the first
Speaker 3: few that they had where then what was the circumstances
Speaker 3: where Rick Flair got like a suit torn up? It
Speaker 3: was essentially you know, at its heart, that storyline is
Speaker 3: I'm good looking and you're not without saying I'm good
Speaker 3: looking and you're not, you know, whereas it can be
Speaker 3: about I'm more sophisticated, I'm better dressed, I know how
Speaker 3: to do my hair, you know, instead of just being like,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm pretty or ugly. You know, that's talk
Speaker 3: about it. It's like talk about a place where all right,
Speaker 3: maybe now we could use some nuance, Maybe now we
Speaker 3: can use some you know, sophistication in the storytelling. But
Speaker 3: I think it's also I think what's dangerous about it
Speaker 3: is is like doing that with with the female characters
Speaker 3: is so petty, and it's so it takes it takes
Speaker 3: the women back a few steps in a few years,
Speaker 3: and it's like, you know, I mean, my god, they
Speaker 3: haven't been called you know, well, I guess they don't
Speaker 3: call them women wrestlers, but they haven't been not divas.
Speaker 3: For It's it's it took them too long to get
Speaker 3: away from just defining them by their physical looks. That
Speaker 3: to go back to that so quickly is you know,
Speaker 3: there's just so many different stories you can tell that
Speaker 3: to just go to, oh, well, women are being catty again,
Speaker 3: it's just like it's just so it speaks. It just
Speaker 3: speaks to Vince's perception of people and women in particular.
Speaker 3: And it is so it's just lazy writing, you know basically,
Speaker 3: And I and and I believe me, I'm always on
Speaker 3: my sofucks on this. We watch wrestling is and that
Speaker 3: is not. I'm not blaming the writers because, believe me,
Speaker 3: at no point would would would anyone on the creative
Speaker 3: team come to Vince and be like, well, she can
Speaker 3: call her fat and ugly like that type of thing.
Speaker 3: It's like that, this is this is a product of
Speaker 3: Vince McMahon. You know, I could, I could say that
Speaker 3: with one hundred percent degree of certainty.
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of him redlining a script and
Speaker 1: saying no changes like reading, just no changes exact.
Speaker 3: U. Yeah, believe it or not that that that's I mean,
Speaker 3: the rarity. But believe it or not, I do remember
Speaker 3: that actually happening.
Speaker 1: I heard that because I say that because I heard
Speaker 1: that might have happened with this, and it fits what
Speaker 1: you're saying about how this is Vince's idea like that,
Speaker 1: Vince didn't want anyone to break from exactly this because
Speaker 1: he knew some people would be uncomfortable with it.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I couldn't say, but I mean I do.
Speaker 3: I remember specifically there being a time probably in the
Speaker 3: fall of right when I started, probably the beginning of
Speaker 3: winter twenty eleven. I remember because I was still on
Speaker 3: the home team, and I remember Brian Goertz emphasizing to
Speaker 3: us because we were all new, because they had just
Speaker 3: been a mass firing and they were rebuilding the team.
Speaker 3: Basically all the writers that were there were on the road.
Speaker 3: And as a matter of fact, those are all the
Speaker 3: guys that are still there, you know, that are the
Speaker 3: higher ups in the creative team now. But I remember
Speaker 3: Brian like emphasizing to us, like, you guys need to understand,
Speaker 3: like the script that went on TV was basically the
Speaker 3: same thing that we wrote here, and that's huge. And
Speaker 3: it wasn't until the days and weeks and months went
Speaker 3: on that I was able to appreciate just how huge
Speaker 3: it was. And he was right to put us over
Speaker 3: for that to be like, you guys don't understand, like
Speaker 3: the script that we wrote is what wound up on
Speaker 3: the air. Do you have no idea how monumental that is? Yeah,
Speaker 3: So I don't know if it I mean, in the
Speaker 3: time that I was there. I could count on one
Speaker 3: hand the amount of times that I remember, you know,
Speaker 3: Vince not O God, what is this? What is it? Sir?
Speaker 3: This is the the script that you appro approved three
Speaker 3: days ago. Okay, but never mind?
Speaker 1: You know, But did he I mean, cause, does he
Speaker 1: ever that you saw? Just say no changes, don't don't.
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear it. I know you're gonna
Speaker 1: be upset.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: I know I'm going to hear about this. But no changes,
Speaker 1: just talent, producers, writers. This is what goes on the air.
Speaker 1: Does he dig his heels and make that clear? Well?
Speaker 3: You know, like I remember, this is interesting. I remember
Speaker 3: when if you go way back to Daniel Brian cashing
Speaker 3: in the money in the bank on I want to
Speaker 3: say it was on Big Show when he first cashed
Speaker 3: in for the World Heavyweight Championship. I want to say
Speaker 3: Big Show was champed. I can't remember if that was
Speaker 3: totally the case. I feel like it was, but I
Speaker 3: remember that that was Vince's idea, that was Vince's call.
Speaker 3: And he only told a couple of us, obviously not
Speaker 3: me in the room, but like he only told a
Speaker 3: couple of the guys been creative who then told me
Speaker 3: and a couple other people because we were been writing
Speaker 3: the scenarios on it. But he specifically he didn't want
Speaker 3: anyone else to know because he didn't want anyone to
Speaker 3: talk him out of it. So that was like a
Speaker 3: situation where it was like, this is this is what
Speaker 3: I want to do, and I don't want to hear.
Speaker 3: So basically, instead of Vince saying, you know, listening to
Speaker 3: everyone's feedback and then being like, no, this is what
Speaker 3: we're doing, he vinced, to his credit, saw I could
Speaker 3: see myself getting talked out of this by certain people,
Speaker 3: So I'm just not going to tell those certain people,
Speaker 3: and we're just gonna barrel ahead and do this and
Speaker 3: this is this is the thing that we're going to
Speaker 3: do on the pay per view I think it was
Speaker 3: was it out of money in the bank or whatever
Speaker 3: it was, I can't remember. The circumstance of it was raw,
Speaker 3: So it was at the actual pay review itself, but
Speaker 3: that was a situation where he's like, no, I want
Speaker 3: Brian to cash in, and this is what we're doing,
Speaker 3: and I don't want to hear about it from anyone.
Speaker 3: But I don't know. I mean, like I'm trying to think,
Speaker 3: like like like Rock and scene of going on last
Speaker 3: I know that there was discussion of, well, we're also
Speaker 3: doing Hunter and Undertaker in a Helen of Cell. Is
Speaker 3: Ken is a championship match big enough to follow a
Speaker 3: Helena Cell because it's almost like the situation that you
Speaker 3: saw at all, like, well, this ladder match is going
Speaker 3: to be bonkers crazy Ken just a singles match follow it. Obviously,
Speaker 3: the championship makes it higher stakes, that the first championship
Speaker 3: that they've ever crowned makes it higher stakes. But at
Speaker 3: the same time, you know, Jericho and hang In Page
Speaker 3: are not the same palaber of John Cena versus The
Speaker 3: Rock and The Rock being the biggest movie star in
Speaker 3: the world and doing his first singles match back in
Speaker 3: years and years? You know, is that a bigger draw
Speaker 3: than Undertaker and Triple H and helenfl Clearly it was,
Speaker 3: and I was of the mindset that it was even before.
Speaker 3: I mean, they could have used guns and that Helen
Speaker 3: Is a match and it still wouldn't have meant more
Speaker 3: than The Rock coming against John Cena, you know, the
Speaker 3: Old Guard versus the New Guard. The fact that the
Speaker 3: title was on the line was what's the title even
Speaker 3: on the line at that one. I don't even remember. No,
Speaker 3: it wasn't because because the title would have been Punk
Speaker 3: and uh in Jericho, right, Yeah, yeah, the title wasn't
Speaker 3: even involved in so even so, it was just a
Speaker 3: straight up singles.
Speaker 1: Match as a stretch where Punk never got Punk is
Speaker 1: World Champion, never got to actually close out a pay
Speaker 1: per view unless he was against the Rock Orders.
Speaker 3: That's right, Yeah, that's right. Oh my god, incredible. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean there were plenty of times where Vince was like, now,
Speaker 3: this is what we got to do, you know, I mean,
Speaker 3: it's it's I mean it we can we can point
Speaker 3: out a lot of things that Vince does wrong, but
Speaker 3: there's a lot of things that clearly Vince does right.
Speaker 3: And the you know, and when it comes down to it,
Speaker 3: and any thing that is on the air of a
Speaker 3: WWE show, it whether it was Vince's idea or not,
Speaker 3: Vince was the last one to say, this is what
Speaker 3: we're doing. Yeah, And and part of part of what
Speaker 3: works with Vince is also what what doesn't work with
Speaker 3: Vince is that he loves options, and sometimes there's too
Speaker 3: many options and suddenly he you know, there's just too
Speaker 3: there's there's there's just too much going on, and then
Speaker 3: things get fall through the cracks, and then things get
Speaker 3: changed at the last men, and then suddenly nothing makes
Speaker 3: sense and then Vince's like, well, we're moving on, it
Speaker 3: doesn't matter, and it's like, wow, maybe it does. You know,
Speaker 3: the Raiders would say that it does. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 10: Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back,
Speaker 10: relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share
Speaker 10: your passion? Do you want to be topped off the
Speaker 10: ledge after segment that has you wondering what the heck
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Speaker 1: So just a couple other undercard matches, They're all championship
Speaker 1: matches other than Roman Rowan So I don't mean to
Speaker 1: mean any of them, but yes, there's too many championships
Speaker 1: in WWE, but AJ Style, Cedrick Alexander, just any thoughts
Speaker 1: on what they've done with that match in those two lately, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean that should be a real good match. I
Speaker 3: feel like they've done a pretty good job building et cetera,
Speaker 3: you know, mora or less. I mean in the vacuum
Speaker 3: of WWE, you know where they where they stand now
Speaker 3: building babyfaces, They've you know, done a pretty decent job.
Speaker 3: And then and I like a J, you know, I
Speaker 3: like a J in this role of you know, the
Speaker 3: the US champ. I mean again, it's it's, it's it's
Speaker 3: it's basically that match isn't a priority, you know, for
Speaker 3: me as a viewer or for them booking it, so
Speaker 3: that can that can actually work for them because if things,
Speaker 3: you know, I remember, like Dave Chappelle talking about when
Speaker 3: the Chappelle Show stopped being fun and then he very
Speaker 3: famously walked away from it and you know, went on
Speaker 3: sabbatical basically, but he described the Chappelle Show was fun
Speaker 3: when it felt like nobody was watching, you know, and
Speaker 3: and I and I can appreciate that, like that it's
Speaker 3: so I think with a day Et Cedric, it's it's
Speaker 3: I could see that them pulling off something good because
Speaker 3: it's not you don't have that. I could see Vince
Speaker 3: not uh, fixating on it and wound up picking it
Speaker 3: apart and ruining it. Because there is a as as
Speaker 3: like a writer, there is a thing of like when
Speaker 3: when you start messing with something too much, it's a sweater.
Speaker 3: The whole thing can just fall apart and then there's
Speaker 3: no way to get it back together. Like I remember
Speaker 3: reading like a h a collection of Farside cartoons where
Speaker 3: Gary Larson was like he gave some example of like
Speaker 3: this is where it started, this is where it ended,
Speaker 3: and this is He's like, I just I kept because
Speaker 3: you should go through drafts. Definitely you should rewrite, but
Speaker 3: you can hit a point where it's like, you know,
Speaker 3: pencils down, this is we're done. Now we need to
Speaker 3: move on. You can ruin something by trying to fix it.
Speaker 3: And I feel like A j and Cedric are are
Speaker 3: flying under the radar and can maybe are are gonna
Speaker 3: exceed expectations because maybe there aren't any Yeah, I mean
Speaker 3: from I mean from Vince, you know type of thing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so we'll see.
Speaker 1: How about Shinsky, Nakamura, the Icy Champ. I admit half
Speaker 1: of my awake hours, I forget who the Icy and
Speaker 1: US champs are these days, defending against the Miz with
Speaker 1: Sammy's ay, and I think still with shinsk who knows,
Speaker 1: but he did get chokes line Bindertaker and for all
Speaker 1: we know, Sammy's gonna show up with Kevin Owens with
Speaker 1: a complete you know, Dallas shower scene reset next Wednesday,
Speaker 1: and you know who knows. But right now Shinsky is
Speaker 1: maybe with Sammy in his corner. What do you think
Speaker 1: of that?
Speaker 3: I should be fine, you know, I mean, Shinsk is
Speaker 3: he's he's really enjoying his retirement. He's you know, I
Speaker 3: like to I think I like that Knackamore is keeping
Speaker 3: busy while he's retired here in the United States. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it should be fine. I'm not expecting. I'm not expecting,
Speaker 3: you know, the main event of the Tokyo Dome. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean this is good, This is good in this role.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's an interesting I mean christ I
Speaker 3: mean think about like the pairing up of it, just
Speaker 3: just on paper, just looking at it in terms of
Speaker 3: like from like a a two thy eleven or twenty
Speaker 3: twelve pair of sunglasses or even like twenty thirteen, Like
Speaker 3: just take it like five years back. Let's say, if like,
Speaker 3: if you had told me we'd be doing Shinske Knackamore
Speaker 3: versus The Miz for the icy title on a pay
Speaker 3: per view, I would have said, really, But I mean
Speaker 3: it makes sense. It's been a fine it's been a
Speaker 3: fine build, and you know, I think that there's better
Speaker 3: things that we could be doing with Sammy's Ain. But
Speaker 3: as far as if this is the role that he's
Speaker 3: going to be in, he's certainly good at it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but uh, you know, I mean I I knew somebody
Speaker 3: that was on the creative team that was let go
Speaker 3: earlier this year, and and with somebody that when he
Speaker 3: was done was done watching the show, and I was
Speaker 3: talking to him on the phone. I mentioned to him.
Speaker 3: I was like, I was like, wow, you know, it's weird.
Speaker 3: I mean, Samy's Ain is now Hinton Kimore's manager. And
Speaker 3: he was just like what the reaction? And I was like, oh, yeah, man,
Speaker 3: you gotta you got to tune into the.
Speaker 1: I feel like some people reacted way they missed one
Speaker 1: week of TV, you know, but but yeah, I can
Speaker 1: imagine being that immersed in it and then just divorcing
Speaker 1: yourself from it and then just being reacquainted with it. It
Speaker 1: could be kind of.
Speaker 3: Shocked, right Like it was funny like at Starcast during
Speaker 3: the Punk interview, it was funny them having to explain
Speaker 3: to him like, you know, like, well, Koffee, you know,
Speaker 3: he's got he's got the pancakes, and he's like, he's what,
Speaker 3: He's got pancakes. The most entertaining thing actually in that
Speaker 3: interview was when it was when Mike Johnson explained to
Speaker 3: him that, well, you know, like Rollins and Becky Lynch,
Speaker 3: they've been off the last two weeks. They got time off,
Speaker 3: Like Punk just goes they got time off, yeapros and
Speaker 3: for a good minute of just like you can ask
Speaker 3: for time off, now what?
Speaker 1: But then then after the amazement wore off about you know,
Speaker 1: five to ten minutes later, he's like, well they'll be punished.
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, you know, you know they're not
Speaker 1: going to pay a price for that. That that can't
Speaker 1: go unpunished. You might have the leverage to ask for it,
Speaker 1: and aw might be creating that or who knows what
Speaker 1: but but they'll pay in some way. They may not
Speaker 1: they may or may not realize it.
Speaker 3: Hopefully, no doubt, we'll see.
Speaker 1: We we didn't talk about the Seth and Brawn against
Speaker 1: Ruden Ziggler. Uh, aspect of of this where they're they're
Speaker 1: friends teaming as champions of Beast. Done that before. I
Speaker 1: guess we can talk about that briefly. Just what do
Speaker 1: you think of Ruden Zigger being kind of thrown together
Speaker 1: as a team and uh, did they float a team
Speaker 1: name for them on Monday? I feel like the announcers
Speaker 1: threw a name out there and I'm forgetting what it
Speaker 1: was that they are calling themselves. But anyway, Yeah, your
Speaker 1: thoughts on that.
Speaker 3: I think did I missed it? I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 3: it almost reminds me of when we paired up Puddy
Speaker 3: Rhodes and uh and oh God Damnian Sandout. Yeah, you
Speaker 3: know where it was like, you know what, you got
Speaker 3: to do something with them, And it almost makes sense,
Speaker 3: you know, Ziggler and Rude. It's two people that I
Speaker 3: mean have been underutilized. I Meaniggler, it's literally Dolf Ziggler
Speaker 3: has been underutilized to the point where that's now his
Speaker 3: You know. I mean it's it's it's it's high comedy.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's the most meta self parody you can imagine.
Speaker 3: And then Bobby rut it's just or Robert Rude. Excuse me,
Speaker 3: I mean it's just, uh yeah, you gotta do something with.
Speaker 1: You You'll be right next week, maybe by the time
Speaker 1: to stop.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no doubt. But that all being said, I
Speaker 3: do like them as a pair. I feel like it
Speaker 3: makes sense, uh you know, aesthetically, I feel like they
Speaker 3: have the same kind of attitude, and they are both
Speaker 3: you know, clearly talented in and of itself. But you know,
Speaker 3: I mean Rollins versus Stroman does it? Does it mean
Speaker 3: that they're going to then lose the belt to them?
Speaker 3: I mean, are they is there going to be their
Speaker 3: own fault? You know? Are they going to stop getting
Speaker 3: along during the match and then lead into their match?
Speaker 3: I don't know. It seems like a simple way to
Speaker 3: tell the story. Then you get into you know, Bobby
Speaker 3: and Dolph defending those belts, you know, because it's because
Speaker 3: it's he got two main eventors with the tag belts together.
Speaker 3: It's never you know, a bad thing. I always enjoyed
Speaker 3: that that brief run when Stone Cold and Undertaker were
Speaker 3: tag champs together, was then didn't that happen? Can that happen?
Speaker 3: Or at least there was that period where like Stone
Speaker 3: Cold was the tag champ or like he was tagging
Speaker 3: with it or with stone Cold at Sean Michaels for
Speaker 3: they chances to get I mean stone called the mcfoley
Speaker 3: were definitely tag champs together. That's that makes sense. I
Speaker 3: feel like, yeah, they were. I feel like Stone Cold
Speaker 3: and Undertaker were tag champs for for a second and that,
Speaker 3: but it was it wasn't on the same show as
Speaker 3: them having their match at the Garden, but it was
Speaker 3: like leading up to it. I'm almost positive. But but anyway, you.
Speaker 1: Know, it's Lord and the Funny but you know, I
Speaker 1: mean Rolins and bron they won the Take Team titles.
Speaker 1: They won the Take Team titles from Cain and Mankind
Speaker 1: at Fully Loaded on July twenty sixth, nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 1: and they held the titles for about two weeks before
Speaker 1: listening back, so understandable to not quite have that drilled
Speaker 1: into our our memories.
Speaker 3: They had it for about a cup of coffee.
Speaker 1: And that was the era where tape where championships changed
Speaker 1: hands constantly like oh, like the WWF title changed hands
Speaker 1: more times from like I don't know what year I
Speaker 1: charted once, like ninety five to two thousand and five,
Speaker 1: like three times more often than it had in all
Speaker 1: of the previous history, or six times more. Some crazy
Speaker 1: I did a cover story at once on the Torch
Speaker 1: newsletter like this, this has to stop. This is not
Speaker 1: this is not good. You're cashing in decades of equity
Speaker 1: of keep making title changes seem special. They've been better
Speaker 1: about it, but there's too many titles that I still.
Speaker 3: Knowm The rent is oh my lord. So I will say,
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, Rowlins and Brun, that'll be a
Speaker 3: good match in and of itself. I gotta think Rollins
Speaker 3: has to walk away with with the belts, So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will think, Yeah, I wanted Braun to be
Speaker 1: convince me a little more with the situation he was
Speaker 1: put in. I wanted him to convince me a little
Speaker 1: more that he had his eye on that title. And
Speaker 1: if you're a bron fan, you should believe this is
Speaker 1: the night. And I almost feel like it's a tell
Speaker 1: that he didn't do that. That is not winning, because
Speaker 1: there's this weird mentality if the if the baby face,
Speaker 1: even if they're facing on the face, if the basics
Speaker 1: of baby face isn't gonna win the title, don't get
Speaker 1: the fans hopes up and I'm like, no, you're you're
Speaker 1: selling tickets based on hope. That's the whole point of
Speaker 1: tuning in, and the disappointment is part of the emotional
Speaker 1: roller coaster. And all Broun did is you know, I
Speaker 1: get I'm gonna You're gonna get these hands. It was
Speaker 1: like a cliche. It didn't feel I didn't I didn't
Speaker 1: feel sold on this being epic. I got sold on
Speaker 1: this being something that got thrown together and will be forgotten.
Speaker 3: Uh, definitely, Yeah, it has. It has felt to me
Speaker 3: the whole time, like, I mean, it's funny that they're
Speaker 3: fighting against Rude and Ziggler because them being paired up
Speaker 3: feels like, well, you gotta do something with Balus and
Speaker 3: then Rollin's and Stroman like he's the champ another champs together.
Speaker 3: It just feels like, well, this is something we've done before,
Speaker 3: we haven't done it in a little bit, why don't
Speaker 3: we do this, which is the nature of the Beast
Speaker 3: because it's like there's no there's no old storylines. It's
Speaker 3: just an audience who hasn't seen it yet, and it's like, well,
Speaker 3: when's the last time we did this. When's the last
Speaker 3: time we did a heel rep. When's the last time
Speaker 3: we had somebody run in and ring the bell before
Speaker 3: the match is over? You know, when's the last time
Speaker 3: somebody broke their leg? Whence the last time a guy
Speaker 3: got hit by a car once? Let you know, if
Speaker 3: we're not gonna if we're not going to try and
Speaker 3: use stuff, you know, it's like, well, what's what worked
Speaker 3: in the past, Well, when's the last time we did that. Well,
Speaker 3: let's try it. We gotta do something. Yeah, we got
Speaker 3: hours and hours of TV to fill, you know, because
Speaker 3: I mean it's it's every story has been told. There's
Speaker 3: only like you know, the old cliches, there's only seven jokes.
Speaker 3: It's just a different way to write. Every movie is
Speaker 3: the guy and the girl are going to meet and
Speaker 3: fall in love and they're going to get together or
Speaker 3: they're not. It's just the way that you do it.
Speaker 3: That's just fashion. Yeah, that's just you know how we're
Speaker 3: going to do it.
Speaker 1: Give yourself a reason to look forward to going to
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Speaker 1: All right, so we covered the clash. I got about
Speaker 1: ten minutes, and I want to ask you a few
Speaker 1: other questions and a couple mailbak questions. Can we do that?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 10: Do?
Speaker 1: Let's do it?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 1: I want to give the first email, uh here, get
Speaker 1: the first email here? Nelson says he's from the Bronx.
Speaker 1: He's a proud pw Torch VPP subscriber and a We
Speaker 1: Watch Wrestling podcast listener, So he comes first in our
Speaker 1: Mailbak segment. Here he says, one, can you see me down?
Speaker 1: Can you see Jimmy Havock and all these guys doing
Speaker 1: all that hardcore stuff on TNT on pay per view? Yes,
Speaker 1: but on cable, what do you think that?
Speaker 3: I mean, a version of it. I don't think that
Speaker 3: they're going to, you know, be swallowing sumbtexs and you know,
Speaker 3: falling through wheelbarrows or whatever they wheelbarrows, just the cracker
Speaker 3: barrels and stuff. You can do a version of it,
Speaker 3: but I don't think you need blood on TV. I
Speaker 3: mean it's also they're going to be running a traditional
Speaker 3: pay per view business, so they're in a better position
Speaker 3: than WWE in that respect because it's like, I have
Speaker 3: an incentive to want to tune into the pay per
Speaker 3: view because it's like, Wow, Jimmy Havock's crazy. You know,
Speaker 3: Joey Janella is crazy. They're going to do something crazy
Speaker 3: on the pay per view. It's it's there is an
Speaker 3: incentive to the hardcore thing. You can tease it on TV,
Speaker 3: you can go to a certain certain level with it,
Speaker 3: But if you want to see the real madness, then
Speaker 3: you got to buy the pay per view next one.
Speaker 1: And that should be the sales pitch. I mean, embrace it, right,
Speaker 1: you know we you know, don't say PG on the
Speaker 1: air and never say that because they're just telling fans
Speaker 1: the show could be more cool except for the guys upstairs, like,
Speaker 1: never draw attention to that. But you can say, you know,
Speaker 1: the rules are loosened, the platform is there and on
Speaker 1: pay per view, and everyone's gonna let loose and you
Speaker 1: know whatever. I mean, there's a way to frame it
Speaker 1: and and market it. But yeah, I don't, I don't
Speaker 1: I think they're gonna. I mean, I know people in
Speaker 1: whow you complain incessantly as a distraction from their own
Speaker 1: incompetence and bad decisions about standards and practices, but that
Speaker 1: you know, that can be an asset too. When you're
Speaker 1: in the pay per view business, you you should have
Speaker 1: your own standards and practices. One, because if you're good
Speaker 1: at what you're doing, you shouldn't have to do all
Speaker 1: the other stuff, and very often, and when you do
Speaker 1: do it, you should make people pay to see it,
Speaker 1: because that's the business you're in.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I mean there's I mean, it's I mean
Speaker 3: it's like yeah, I mean we say yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1: It's it's yeah, Matt, all right, So number two, do
Speaker 1: you think the tears system of a tear system for
Speaker 1: to B network would work? Are people going to pay
Speaker 1: fifteen dollars a month or more? I'm happy with ten
Speaker 1: dollars a month, but I don't know if I want
Speaker 1: to go beyond that because the WW product is not
Speaker 1: definitely said, it is definitely not setting the world on fire.
Speaker 1: Great job, gentlemen, keep up the great work, and Matt
Speaker 1: please keep doing those awesome vincement man impressions coming on
Speaker 1: your podcast. Do you and your partner make my day?
Speaker 1: When I tune in? Everyone go VP on PW Torch.
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Good, god, damn well, I think my Vince impersonation is
Speaker 1: a derivative of your Vince impersonation.
Speaker 3: Well minus derivative of Brian goork.
Speaker 1: Okay, good, there's a whole whole family trail here.
Speaker 3: Chain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what do you think of a tear system?
Speaker 1: If if they you know, the idea may be being
Speaker 1: introducing some of the satellite indie groups that they have
Speaker 1: a good relationship with, or other aspects of it that
Speaker 1: are on the tier. What would it take to do
Speaker 1: you think, to get most fans to pay five dollars
Speaker 1: extra and not just be angry about it.
Speaker 3: I don't know, because there's so much I don't know
Speaker 3: what the incentive would be, you know, because for me
Speaker 3: there's too much product, you know, like I have it,
Speaker 3: Like I still haven't even gotten around to watch in
Speaker 3: the nxc UK show yet, you know I will at
Speaker 3: some point. Yeah, Like I love those guys. I love Bait,
Speaker 3: I love Walter, but it's like, it's it's it's just
Speaker 3: it's so funny, like the incentive of watching a great
Speaker 3: wrestling match isn't even enough anymore. Sometimes, Oh, you know.
Speaker 1: It's an embarrassing to riches, but it's it is.
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 1: Bruce Mitchell in this week's Prosting Towards newsletter is as
Speaker 1: a second and in a multi part series of you know,
Speaker 1: with his mutual snark and and whatever you want to
Speaker 1: characterize that, but his guide to how to keep up
Speaker 1: on wrestling these days, and he has a very efficient
Speaker 1: way to keep up on on everything that's out there
Speaker 1: that that some people might to apply in order to
Speaker 1: have a functioning life. Otherwise it is it's it's you
Speaker 1: talked about it earlier in the show, you know, I
Speaker 1: mean you there, there's more than enough, And I do
Speaker 1: think that's a challenge for Doe to be getting to
Speaker 1: the question that asking people to pay more when now,
Speaker 1: I mean there's fifty million people are kind of have
Speaker 1: access to a product that people couldn't watch unless they
Speaker 1: sat down and watched Twitch live. So many people couldn't
Speaker 1: watch it and it was a pain to find it
Speaker 1: online and or you had to watch it on delay
Speaker 1: and then you're sort of out of the conversation. But
Speaker 1: Impact Wrestling on Access TV, fifty million people are gonna
Speaker 1: have a chance to see this on a weekly basis.
Speaker 1: Added to all this other stuff, not to mention the
Speaker 1: new NWA show coming up with Billy Corgan and Dave
Speaker 1: Lakhana and a studio show that I'm intrigued by all.
Speaker 1: I mean, MLW is out there on YouTube and on
Speaker 1: on b and sports. It's just there's so many different
Speaker 1: things out there and so many ways to access them.
Speaker 1: And now you've got Apple TV, apples say and subscribe
Speaker 1: to our TV service for four ninety nine a month
Speaker 1: or free with a new iPhone. Eventually those you know,
Speaker 1: five and ten dollars things add up and people start
Speaker 1: making tough decisions. I don't know that wwe can squeeze
Speaker 1: five more dollars out of people. And it reminds me
Speaker 1: of when Linna McMahon was at the helmet and justifying
Speaker 1: extra pay per views in the month and jacking up
Speaker 1: the price five dollars and five dollars more than five
Speaker 1: dollars more. You think these hardcore fans will pay whatever
Speaker 1: to get whatever, but eventually there's a saturation point and
Speaker 1: they just sort of it loses its specialness. That that
Speaker 1: sense of something being rare or hard to get makes
Speaker 1: it a lot more attractive. So I think it's I
Speaker 1: think they're I think they might be a little late.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to charge more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I'm curious to see what they think
Speaker 3: will make me want to pay that more money. I
Speaker 3: don't know that they have something that they can offer
Speaker 3: that I would pay more money to see.
Speaker 1: I mean to get NXT live on USA. Now that
Speaker 1: takes something away already that I think is going to
Speaker 1: cause some people to think I don't know if I
Speaker 1: need the network, I like, I want to get Takeover Specials,
Speaker 1: but maybe I'll wait to get the free month when
Speaker 1: one really jumps out that I need. But I yeah,
Speaker 1: I just I mean, you're taking NXT away as an
Speaker 1: exploded sort of it was on Hulu. But you know,
Speaker 1: I don't. I just don't think there are people say, oh,
Speaker 1: TV ratings don't matter because all the money, all the
Speaker 1: money they're getting from all these places. It does matter
Speaker 1: in the sense that it's it is the temperature gauge
Speaker 1: of how enthusiastic your fan base is to then spend
Speaker 1: money in other ways. And it's pretty cold right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, if the incentive is
Speaker 3: gonna be uh oh, you can watch Progress or Evolve
Speaker 3: or whatever on the network, It's like if I wanted
Speaker 3: to watch Progress and Evolved, I could already be watching. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean it's the fact is is I
Speaker 3: don't even have enough time to watch the things that
Speaker 3: I do want to watch, you know, Yeah, I mean
Speaker 3: it and this, I mean, it's just it goes back
Speaker 3: to like this idea, like Vincmickman, it's just out of
Speaker 3: touch on a lot of levels. And the TV viewing
Speaker 3: and internet habits is just the greatest example, like the
Speaker 3: idea of all, right, well we're gonna put NXT on
Speaker 3: USA up against AW and that's going to be our
Speaker 3: way to combat it. And it's like, well, I don't
Speaker 3: see that making a difference to me because I'm going
Speaker 3: to watch AW and then on Thursday n XC is
Speaker 3: going to be on your streaming thing that's on demand, right,
Speaker 3: doesn't not the deal? So like this isn't It's not
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety eight anymore, Like I don't have to choose
Speaker 3: between Like like here's the thing that where WCW screwed
Speaker 3: up in my household because I realized, oh, because well,
Speaker 3: first of all, if I was so inclined, I had
Speaker 3: a VCR and another cable box in the basement. I
Speaker 3: could just tape one and watch the other. You know,
Speaker 3: Nitro had a replay on it like one or two
Speaker 3: in the morning. So I was like, oh great, I'll
Speaker 3: watch RAW, put a tape in the VCR, go out,
Speaker 3: come back watch. Like this idea like oh well I
Speaker 3: have to watch live is gone like that that is
Speaker 3: there's no like if you want to be if you weren't.
Speaker 1: If you want to live watch with your friends on Twitter.
Speaker 1: That's that's kind of the remaining incentive beyond that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: time management, it takes over.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's no there's no reason to watch
Speaker 3: anything live anymore unless you just absolutely have to watch
Speaker 3: it live.
Speaker 1: You know, Well, if you want to call the Waight
Speaker 1: Keller Pro Wrestling post show and be part of the conversation, sure,
Speaker 1: then you want to watch it live or maybe start
Speaker 1: an hour late and speed through it. But you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly though, like that, it's it's that that's
Speaker 1: kind of the level we're at in terms of watching
Speaker 1: stuff live, because I mean when Netflix dropped House of
Speaker 1: Cards and like the whole season right there, I was like,
Speaker 1: what are they doing? Like and now it's just that's
Speaker 1: what people expect, you know, like just watch it. I'll
Speaker 1: watch it when I want. I'll either binge or I'll
Speaker 1: wait to hear if it's good or whatever. You know,
Speaker 1: wrestling is a little different. You don't want to wait
Speaker 1: too long. But yeah, the delayed watching is standard practice
Speaker 1: now for people. And obviously that's part of the reasons
Speaker 1: the ratings are down. But WWE's making all their money
Speaker 1: from Fox and WC Universal because they want live viewership,
Speaker 1: so w B needs to figure out how to serve
Speaker 1: them and not just wave the white flag and say
Speaker 1: no one does that anymore. And I just don't get
Speaker 1: the sense from Vince or even the brass there that
Speaker 1: they've fully figured out, you know, how important it is
Speaker 1: to get people who care about being live. But I
Speaker 1: also get the conundrum of putting NXT on USA and
Speaker 1: then taking it away from network subscribers. So it's it's tough.
Speaker 1: It's a learning curve for everybody. Okay. Another email Chris
Speaker 1: from Buffalo, New York. Another VP member, Matt, is there
Speaker 1: a drastic difference in writing for college humor skits and
Speaker 1: things along those lines in comparison to writing for WWE.
Speaker 1: This is a serious question. WWE seems to have a
Speaker 1: joke of a writing staff or easily ten plus years
Speaker 1: thanks as always in go VIP. I don't quite get
Speaker 1: the question, but he addressed the two.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I understand the question either. I mean, well,
Speaker 3: first of all, the writing team of WWE is not
Speaker 3: a joke.
Speaker 1: They're They're great, I think Vince McMahon and is where
Speaker 1: the buck stops. I think people yeah have figured that out.
Speaker 1: Who listened to this show usually. Yeah, I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously there's writers who don't know what they're doing who
Speaker 1: come along every once in a while, and I don't
Speaker 1: think they make it up the chain and last. And
Speaker 1: there's we know from interviewing people like you and Gulls
Speaker 1: and others from the past fifteen years, there's a massive
Speaker 1: frustration because there's people of wrestling fans who want to
Speaker 1: who just end up realizing, Vince McMann is, you're writing
Speaker 1: for one person and all these good ideas and good
Speaker 1: concepts get lost in the process.
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I mean, the only difference there's I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean as far as writing sketch comedy, it's it
Speaker 3: just depends on well, there's differences and there's similarities. But
Speaker 3: I mean for writing sketches is it's kind of one
Speaker 3: and done. Whereas wrestling, when you're writing for ww WE,
Speaker 3: it's a little more like comic book writing. Not that
Speaker 3: I've written books, but just being being a fan of
Speaker 3: both and having written for WWE, is it's this endless mythology,
Speaker 3: you know, it's the storyline that has no end, whereas
Speaker 3: a sketch.
Speaker 1: Is.
Speaker 3: With comedy, writing is your right. I mean, the difference
Speaker 3: is you have to write a beginning of middle and
Speaker 3: an end, whereas with WWE, the programs, the storylines in
Speaker 3: and of themselves have a beginning of middle and an end.
Speaker 3: You know, the rivalry starts because Hulk Hogan uh is,
Speaker 3: you know, sweet on Miss Elizabeth or at least that,
Speaker 3: So that's the beginning. In the middle is you know,
Speaker 3: you've got listivil eyes in your heart for you know,
Speaker 3: blah blah blah, and then the end is WrestleMania five.
Speaker 3: But the the similarity is that we with comedy is
Speaker 3: the same as with any storytelling. I think the the
Speaker 3: similarity is we're building tension and then we need to
Speaker 3: relieve that tension, whereas like the build of a match
Speaker 3: is you're just building incentives to want to see the match,
Speaker 3: whereas with the match itself, I think is more similar
Speaker 3: to the sketch writing because that you have that beginning
Speaker 3: the middle and then and and you have that like
Speaker 3: take let's take like a standard WWE match, which is
Speaker 3: the Hull Cogan match, which is, you know, you get
Speaker 3: some back and forth and then you get heat on
Speaker 3: the baby face and you're pouring heat on the baby face,
Speaker 3: and then you just finally get the baby Face come back,
Speaker 3: and then the Babyface wins. Every Hull Cogan match is
Speaker 3: the same thing. It's always a little back and forth.
Speaker 3: Then something happens Boom, Hulk is down, and Hulk is
Speaker 3: down the whole time, and then suddenly, all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: the Hulk just gets a miraculous breath of fresh air.
Speaker 3: He starts fighting his way out. You know, that's that's
Speaker 3: basically comedy writing. Is you have a game, and you
Speaker 3: figure out what the game is, and then you go through,
Speaker 3: like like an SNL sketch. You see what the game is.
Speaker 3: They set it up at the very beginning, and then
Speaker 3: you just kind of go through all the permutations of
Speaker 3: how how many different ways can we tell this joke
Speaker 3: until we've exhausted it and now we've come to the end.
Speaker 3: You know, how much heat can we get on Hull
Speaker 3: Cogan before we've You know, there's either there's either two
Speaker 3: ways that it can end. One he has to come
Speaker 3: back and now we're all happy, or the other way
Speaker 3: is that we've gotten too much heat on him and
Speaker 3: I either become bored as an audience member or I'm
Speaker 3: starting to lose faith in my hero that I'm like, gosh,
Speaker 3: he you know, what's he going to do to get
Speaker 3: out of this? So it's the same thing with like
Speaker 3: sketch writing of like you know, building building to a
Speaker 3: a a desirable client.
Speaker 9: You know, longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want
Speaker 9: to learn some wrestling history. Don't miss the Nineties Past
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Speaker 1: All right, Matt, I got in on this note. I
Speaker 1: want a prediction Week one NXT on USA, what's the rating?
Speaker 1: And then Week three NXT versus Week ONEAW on October
Speaker 1: October second, I think what who wins? And is it
Speaker 1: by a wide margin or a narrow margin?
Speaker 3: NXT Week one, I think the rating will.
Speaker 1: Be SmackDown this week for listeners. Comparison was one point
Speaker 1: five to five and it was up. Their ten week
Speaker 1: average is one point five two, so that's kind of
Speaker 1: that's what they've been doing on Tuesdays in the USA.
Speaker 3: I could see it being eight eighty, eight hundred and
Speaker 3: eighty thousand, and I think that AEW is going to
Speaker 3: win the first week for sure, no matter how many
Speaker 3: hot shots, you know, all all the bells and whistles
Speaker 3: they can pull out. Because I think that there has
Speaker 3: been a there is a degree of overlap. I think
Speaker 3: that there are you know, people like us who will
Speaker 3: watch everything, who just like pro wrestling. I think that
Speaker 3: there is another group that just watches w and that's
Speaker 3: all they know and that's all they will ever care about.
Speaker 3: I think that there is another group that got burned
Speaker 3: out in WWE, is sick of it and is gravitating
Speaker 3: towards something new. But I think that there is a
Speaker 3: very young, different audience that has been turned on to
Speaker 3: either New Japan or PWG or being the elite. There
Speaker 3: is a new audience that AW has built that has
Speaker 3: cultivated that these are the people that bought all those
Speaker 3: Bullet Club shirts at hot Topic. I mean, I think
Speaker 3: that they have kept into a new audience that is
Speaker 3: not a casual fan. I think they have created a
Speaker 3: new wrestling fan who isn't necessarily interested in WWE, who
Speaker 3: has discovered this brand new thing. And I think that
Speaker 3: that is I'm on the edge of my seat to see. Yeah,
Speaker 3: what it's going to mean for TV ratings.
Speaker 1: It's so wide open. I mean, nobody knows, and whatever happens,
Speaker 1: there is going to be a certain percent who go,
Speaker 1: of course, and someone has to be like, well, of
Speaker 1: course Ayway's gonna win by two to one margin. Of
Speaker 1: course that next you win by two to one margin,
Speaker 1: that would behind him, promoting him. Yeah, we'll see Matt,
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Time flies and love getting your
Speaker 1: insight in stories and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I always love doing it. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: At McCarthy redhead everywhere on social media. We watch wrestl Right,
Speaker 1: we watch wrestling. Go subscribe right now on your podcast app.
Speaker 3: Thanks Matt's right that we watch wrestling podcast. Check it
Speaker 3: out and you can check out the Pro Wrestling Fans
Speaker 3: Single on Spotify or go to my website McCarthy. Uh
Speaker 3: this is Matt McCarthy dot com and you can order
Speaker 3: a seven inch single. I have a couple left and
Speaker 3: uh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks, We'll talk to you soon, looking forward to
Speaker 1: what comes up in the next month.
Speaker 3: Here, all right, Letterbud.
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Speaker 1: everything coming up in October. Just it's it's it's getting
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Speaker 1: then we're just a few weeks away now listen, a
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Speaker 1: which is overshadowing but not necessarily more important than what
Speaker 1: WWW does on their premiere Fox episode of SmackDown. The
Speaker 1: Anniversary Show. Probably big changes, big matches, big names, a
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