WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:02.680 A PW Torch VIP membership doesn't just give you add 2 00:00:02.680 --> 00:00:04.400 free access to these shows and a ton of other 3 00:00:04.480 --> 00:00:07.120 VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain 4 00:00:07.160 --> 00:00:10.759 access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our 5 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:13.759 contemporaneous week to week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly 6 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:16.559 newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with 7 00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:20.079 streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows 8 00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:22.800 from the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with 9 00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:26.719 wrestling's top newsmakers in the nineties, and also our podcast 10 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:29.000 library dating back to the year two thousand and three. 11 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:33.479 There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than 12 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:36.320 that that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now 13 00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:39.960 we're approaching twenty years of podcasting, Go vip and dive 14 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:42.359 into our post pay per view roundtables, our coverage of 15 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:45.359 some of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long 16 00:00:45.399 --> 00:00:49.439 form interviews, and special format podcasts that we've done throughout 17 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:53.600 the years. Pwtorch dot com slash go vip. We have 18 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:55.240 a streamline sign up for me and you can pay 19 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:57.840 with PayPal or directly with your credit card or debit 20 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:00.119 card in one or two minutes from right now, you 21 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:02.320 can be a VIP member and diving into our library. 22 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:05.120 Pw torch dot com, Slash Go VIP. 23 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:19.920 Now, PW Torch and Spreaker bring you the Wade Killer 24 00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:23.680 Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for this week's Interview Classic, 25 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:27.799 where Wade Killer interviews one of Pro Wrestling's newsmakers. 26 00:01:31.239 --> 00:01:33.920 Five years ago. This week, I interviewed Matt McCarthy. He's 27 00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:36.480 an ex WWE Creative Team member. He's also a stand 28 00:01:36.519 --> 00:01:40.719 up comedian, progressling podcaster. He's been in TV commercials. In 29 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:44.239 this two hour plus interview, we talked about WWE's Clash 30 00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:46.560 of the Champion's pay per view lineup with an examination 31 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:49.920 and critique of the storylines building up the matches. Matt 32 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:52.200 also took us behind the scenes to how finsic Man 33 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:56.079 operates when it comes to developing, augmenting, and stubbornly sticking 34 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:59.560 to certain storylines. We also brought up mail Bay questions 35 00:01:59.560 --> 00:02:02.319 and look to head to the eightw versus NXT Battle, 36 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:05.439 the Impact Wrestling News, and also with Matt, we go 37 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:10.000 to fun places, references, analogies to Watchmen, The Simpsons, Breaking Bad, 38 00:02:10.479 --> 00:02:13.599 Nicholas Cage and Dave Chappelle. Real fun interview, Always a 39 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:17.599 fun conversation with ex WW creative team member Matt McCarthy, 40 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:22.400 and this one originally live streamed on September thirteenth, twenty nineteen, 41 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:25.240 five years ago this week and it is today's Wade 42 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:29.319 Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast five years ago Flashback Interview Classic 43 00:02:29.639 --> 00:02:32.879 again for Saturday, September fourteenth, twenty twenty four. Here we go, 44 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:37.960 all right, Matt McCarthy, Clash a Champions. First question, what 45 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:40.759 are you most looking forward to? What match are you 46 00:02:40.919 --> 00:02:43.599 most anticipating, either because it'll be a good match or 47 00:02:43.639 --> 00:02:46.680 you're just curious to see how it plays out? 48 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:51.960 Oh god, yeah, I don't know. I don't know about 49 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:56.560 this thing. Maybe Kofi and Randy if Randy's okay after 50 00:02:56.599 --> 00:03:02.039 getting blasted with that chair, Yeah, that was gross. You can't. 51 00:03:02.120 --> 00:03:04.800 I mean, I like when I was in we went 52 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:08.039 to Chicago for All Out and then we went to 53 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:13.039 aaw you know Thursday and Friday. Yeah, and uh, I 54 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:17.560 forget the guys. I don't know the individuals names in LAX, 55 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:20.360 but the guy that used to have the big afro 56 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:23.680 and I was his hair is much shorter. He takes 57 00:03:23.759 --> 00:03:30.360 some laughs to the head like that are unnecessary, and uh, 58 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:34.240 you know so, I mean the day of open unprotected 59 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:38.000 chair shots are gone. But then you get like somebody 60 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:39.680 like Randy who gets hit in the back of the 61 00:03:39.719 --> 00:03:43.400 head and he's I mean, that's that's Randy's problem area 62 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:48.879 is his shoulders, his neck and his head. Yuck. But 63 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:49.120 h but that. 64 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:53.560 Randy has spent ten years calling KOFE stupid, so. 65 00:03:55.719 --> 00:04:01.319 That's true. That's true. Yeah, no, I'm When I saw 66 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:05.759 that happen, I was. My first thought was because you know, 67 00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:09.400 they showed Koffee walking around backstage at the Garden and 68 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:12.840 he sees that frame picture of the night that, you know, 69 00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:16.399 the night he was made or whatever they referred to 70 00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:18.639 it as, you know, him and him and Randy and 71 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:22.480 that killer match they had back in the day. And 72 00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:25.079 when I first saw that, and I love KOFE. I 73 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:29.680 love KOFE. But when I first saw that image, I 74 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:35.199 was it struck me as humorous because it didn't feel like, oh, 75 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:37.000 here's the night I was made. It felt like, oh, 76 00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:40.839 here's that last time that they almost pushed me. But 77 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:44.480 once Randy got blasted in the back of the head, 78 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:46.959 which is the worst thing that can happen to anybody. 79 00:04:49.240 --> 00:04:53.879 I suddenly saw an image of Koffee watching that footage 80 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:56.759 in a frame picture backstage somewhere, and he's like, oh, yeah, 81 00:04:56.759 --> 00:04:59.279 that's the night that I met. It all ended for me, 82 00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:03.639 you know, because the maybe not so much anymore, but 83 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:06.120 it's you know, oh you hurt, Randy, You're out of 84 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:11.480 a job type of thing. But so hopefully that match 85 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:12.959 comes off that could be really good. 86 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:17.839 You know, Bailey and Charlotte before before we actually move 87 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:19.959 off from from kofee and Randy, because you you work 88 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:22.279 behind the scenes in WWE, and you've you've watched w 89 00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:25.800 B before and after extensively, but from from your time there, 90 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:30.319 are you surprised now where KOFE is? And I guess 91 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:32.079 I'll ask the same question, even though I anticipate the 92 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:35.000 answer a little bit. Same with Randy Orton, like they're 93 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:39.160 essentially co headlining Class of Champions, not a uh, top 94 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:42.439 of the line pay per view title for WWE. Uh, 95 00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:45.519 but are you are you surprised that KOFE is getting 96 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:48.759 this run with the title and what in your experience 97 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:50.959 and knowledge worked either for or against it. I think 98 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:53.439 you touched on some of it, but what do you, 99 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:55.040 what do you think of the fact that he's there, 100 00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:56.759 how he's doing in the odds of it happening. 101 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:05.759 Well, I am surprised that they finally I don't know. 102 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:07.920 I don't know if I could say that they pulled 103 00:06:07.920 --> 00:06:10.600 the trigger on Kofee. I mean, which is odd because 104 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:16.399 it's like, he's the champ if you want to put 105 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:21.000 the ww Championship ahead of the Universal Championship, which the 106 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:25.240 argument could be made either way, but for all intents 107 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:27.519 and purposes, he is the champ, which does surprise me 108 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:36.240 from a Vince McMahon standpoint. For me as somebody who 109 00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:40.040 interacted with Kofee, worked with Kofee, and then watched Koffee 110 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:46.959 before and after. You know, the word surprise might might 111 00:06:47.079 --> 00:06:51.920 might not be the best from my perspective, but it 112 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:54.959 shouldn't have taken as long. But now that we're here, 113 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:57.680 it's great. I don't feel like they pulled the trigger 114 00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:03.759 on him because in in my opinion, in my you know, 115 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:09.120 point of view on on booking Kofee, they should have 116 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:13.439 turned him heal because it was when when the New 117 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:17.759 Day was healed, I was what was what was really 118 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:21.120 surprising to me was how good Kofe is at being 119 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:27.199 a heel, being that you know, jovial, having a good time, 120 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:29.360 but kind of rubbing my face, you know, rubbing my 121 00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:32.480 nose and that type of thing. And I think that 122 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:35.480 that would elevate him. Him still being part of a trio. 123 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:38.519 Doesn't feel like they've pulled the trigger on him, you know, 124 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:43.800 him still throwing pancakes to people while it's entertaining. I'm like, 125 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:47.240 it doesn't. All he is is he's still that same 126 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:51.319 guy but with a belt, whereas if he really is 127 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:54.920 going to be like a champion, like and it's such 128 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:58.240 an easy story to tell, you know, of like because 129 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:00.439 I feel like the New Day is a little stand anyway, 130 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:03.279 I think they happened for a while. You can still 131 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:06.079 have Xavier and big Eat together as that you know, 132 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:12.199 you know, very entertaining baby face combo. But it's such 133 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:14.360 an easy story to tell of, Like, you know, the 134 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:16.959 belt goes to Kofe's head that he you know, is 135 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:19.399 better than them, that he doesn't and you can still 136 00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:22.120 plug him into a program with Randy because Randy is 137 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:25.199 Randy's Randy. Whether he's a baby face or a heel, 138 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:27.279 you know, I mean, it's it's he's one of those, 139 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:30.000 he's almost he's like a big show of like you know, 140 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:32.879 the I mean, not the level of flip flopping they 141 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:34.399 do with the big show, but it's just kind of 142 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:41.879 I don't know, Randy's just kind of there. Yeah, I mean, 143 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:44.120 it's just he is that thing of like, you know, 144 00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:46.759 here he is, he's Randy and he's upset again, or 145 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:52.159 he's you know, beating somebody up. But yeah, it's it's 146 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:57.360 it's they almost On the one hand, they've they've gone 147 00:08:57.440 --> 00:08:59.240 all the way with Kofe, but I think that they 148 00:08:59.240 --> 00:08:59.960 could take it further. 149 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:03.480 Do you think there's a chance to that. Part of 150 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:05.799 the trajectory of Kofe's push at the stage of his 151 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:09.200 career is to go heal. I mean, to me, turning 152 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:15.120 somebody heel when they're pretty popular is better than turning 153 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:18.440 someone heel because their babyface character is cold. So the 154 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:21.960 reason not to turn kofee is not because he's getting 155 00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:24.159 over as a baby face. The reason to turn Koffee 156 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:27.679 would be because a people wouldn't see it coming, would 157 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:29.960 feel jarring because they're invested in him and care about him. 158 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:32.080 And I think that's true with fans right now. But 159 00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:36.320 I think the risk reward is in favor of a 160 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:38.720 heel turn. Now, I think he can be just fine 161 00:09:38.720 --> 00:09:40.480 as a baby face. I'm not against him staying face. 162 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:43.159 But when you're kind of calculating, should we do it, 163 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:44.120 would it be a surprise? 164 00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:44.440 Yes? 165 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:46.639 Would he be good at it is you just talked about? Yes, 166 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:49.360 Are we losing Stone Cold Steve Austin at his peak 167 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:52.600 babyface drawing power? No? Are we losing John Cena, the 168 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:53.840 face of the company who can go out to the 169 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:57.240 other tradey work? No? And as a heel is he 170 00:09:57.279 --> 00:09:59.200 gonna be good? Will a shock people? And are their 171 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:01.399 opponents that we can line up against them that we 172 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:04.080 think will work. If the answer to that is yes, 173 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:06.559 I think it's worth considering, especially if they're kind of 174 00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:09.879 weak on that heel side. So I'm intrigued by that, 175 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:12.480 you know, I mean, there's a whole whole array of possibilities. 176 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:14.360 Do you kind of agree with that calculation approach? 177 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:19.879 Oh? Big time? Because I always think of when we 178 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:25.440 were getting into the later part of ninety eight. I 179 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:28.000 think Stone Cold had gone in for the surgery, maybe 180 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:32.399 where a Stone Cold wasn't on TV and it was 181 00:10:32.519 --> 00:10:34.879 leading into No, it wasn't ninety eight it would have 182 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:39.159 been ninety nine when we were leading into that. Was 183 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:43.159 it ninety eight? Ye? Yeah, yeah, it was ninety eight. 184 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:45.240 It was we were going into the Survivor Series ninety 185 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:48.279 eight when they did the tournament title was vacant. Stone 186 00:10:48.279 --> 00:10:54.120 Cold wasn't on TV, and Rock had been a heel 187 00:10:54.279 --> 00:10:56.919 that whole summer and into the fall, but like a 188 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:00.639 fun heel, like a cool heel that the the people 189 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:03.639 were starting to gravitate towards and starting to come around on, 190 00:11:04.279 --> 00:11:06.440 you know, kind of like Jericho in that exact same 191 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:11.600 time period. And when it came down to and it 192 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:16.559 was it was one of the most well booked pay 193 00:11:16.600 --> 00:11:19.360 per views I think that they ever did at WWF 194 00:11:19.399 --> 00:11:21.600 where it was you know, it finally came down to 195 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:25.879 Mankind's and the Rock for the belt and then it 196 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:32.519 finally everything made sense all at once. And mcfoley wasn't 197 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:36.600 the McMahon's choice. Rock was, you know, the McMahon's choice, 198 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:39.039 and Rock was hot going to that, and like he 199 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:42.159 was like, you know, like I said, like Stone Cold 200 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:46.720 wasn't on TV at that point, and Rock was kind 201 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:50.879 of slipping into that spot of like, oh, here's you know, 202 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:55.519 the young, hot baby face and then immediately they turn 203 00:11:55.639 --> 00:11:58.600 him heel and you already had the built in story 204 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:02.360 of you know, the fans booed me die, Rocky Die. 205 00:12:02.759 --> 00:12:05.240 Now the Rocks a millionaire. He's the ww of Champ 206 00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:10.360 and he's still that same character and was doing even 207 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:13.960 better stuff. Was even more effective here. I mean, like Kofi, 208 00:12:15.279 --> 00:12:18.919 it's it's it's even simpler of like, you know, the 209 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:21.720 fans weren't with me, you know, the McMahons weren't with me. 210 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:23.600 I do this all on my own. I didn't need 211 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:26.519 Xavier and Biggie. I use them and blah blah blah. 212 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:29.080 You know, it's it writes itself, and. 213 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:31.000 He can I don't know, he can complain about Seth 214 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:33.159 at that point. He can complain about Seth and Becky 215 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:36.039 being the power couple. They're on the cover of the magazine. 216 00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:39.600 Seth's the one who's the leader now and here I am. 217 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:41.279 You know, yeah, I mean there's there's ways to tell 218 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:44.240 that story and pluck things out to too where fans 219 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:46.159 are kind of rolling their eyes going I get where 220 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:48.200 he sees it, but settle down. It's you know, like 221 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:51.120 that's that's you don't want him to sound like to 222 00:12:51.159 --> 00:12:55.039 me Randy on on Tuesday this week sounded too accurate, 223 00:12:55.279 --> 00:12:57.440 like I wanted to come back when Randy's like, well, yeah, 224 00:12:57.440 --> 00:12:58.879 you had that one moment ten years ago. Think of 225 00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:01.240 all the things I've done since that, and to me, 226 00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:04.399 Kovie didn't respond, the announcers didn't respond, there was no pushback. 227 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:06.240 I don't get a little off on a sidebar here, 228 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:09.720 but I wanted Kofe to go, Randy, you don't think 229 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:11.799 I've accomplished anything in ten years, and then rattle off 230 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:15.200 all of his wins. He's had really big moments, maybe 231 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:17.480 not at Randy's level, but that's sort of the issue 232 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:19.639 of him being the Cinderella story that they're pushing him ass. 233 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:22.440 But you don't want to heal the sound, right, is 234 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:25.240 kind of my point. No, so when Kofe goes heal, 235 00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:27.720 the idea would be pluck some things that have a 236 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:30.559 touch of reality where fans go ah, and then they 237 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:33.080 just think he's overreacting, he's being too dramatic about it. 238 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:37.919 M yeah, yeah, I mean there it is. Yeah. 239 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:41.480 Yeah, Okay, well let's let's uh, do you have any 240 00:13:41.519 --> 00:13:44.080 expectation KOFE doesn't retain the title? I mean, as it 241 00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:46.360 possibly go into the Fox Era with Randy Orton as 242 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:47.759 a champ because he's the legacy star. 243 00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:53.720 I don't. I mean, look, there's the. 244 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:57.480 I shouldn't say any chance when I asked these questions, right, 245 00:13:57.519 --> 00:13:58.679 would you put your money on it? 246 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:07.440 Right? I would keep the title on KOFE. Randy is 247 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:10.039 you know, Randy's Randy. Randy's just kind of there, and 248 00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:15.080 he's frankly kind of cold. He's just kind of always cold, 249 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:18.279 just because he's just kind of well, he's just Randy. 250 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:21.200 We're about to go to a commercial break. Why listen 251 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:24.120 to commercial breaks when you can go VIP and experience 252 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:26.639 our shows with the ads and plugs removed. Pw torch 253 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:30.480 dot com slash go vip. That's pw torch dot com 254 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:33.559 slash go vip for full details, or go to Patreon, 255 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:37.240 Patreon dot com slash pw Torch. VIP rate start as 256 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:39.519 low as four dollars in ninety nine cents to remove 257 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:42.480 the ads and plugs through Patreon. Full VIP membership starts 258 00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:44.919 at nine dollars in ninety nine cents to reach yourself 259 00:14:44.919 --> 00:14:48.159 to a streamlined, ad and plug free listening experience with 260 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:53.600 a VIP or Patreon membership and when you say grandy, 261 00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:55.559 you had experiences with him, I mean, give up a 262 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:58.559 little insight into what you mean. We know Randy on 263 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:00.960 air is Randy, but what is behind the scenes. I mean, 264 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.720 I've heard stories of him, many stories about him, you know, 265 00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:05.840 but like it's like he gets his script, he paces 266 00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:08.120 back and forth, he memorizes it, he delivers it. He's 267 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:10.879 got limited things he'll do in the ring. He's confident 268 00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:13.639 that what he does is enough and sufficient and good. 269 00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:15.679 Tell me if you think that's sort of right, and 270 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:16.919 then add some color to that. 271 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:23.480 Yeah, I mean, I think he's a little more of 272 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:27.720 a perfectionist as far as his entering goes. And I 273 00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:31.840 think that you can see in matches when he's not 274 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:35.159 getting the response he wants from the crowd, he is 275 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:39.320 vocal about that frustration. And it's not in a in 276 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:42.879 character way. You know, he gets, you know, frustrated with 277 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:49.320 the audience. And clearly he's you know, outrageously talented. He's 278 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:52.080 one of the best, absolute best entering workers they have, 279 00:15:53.320 --> 00:15:57.320 they've ever had since he's been around. But you know 280 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:03.360 he's also Randy is uh there to He's at work 281 00:16:04.200 --> 00:16:07.360 and when it's time to clock out, he's like anybody 282 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:10.720 else at their job, he's excited to go home, you know. 283 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:14.600 I mean Randy is uh, you know, it's you can 284 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:17.120 love your job and still be like when's the day 285 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:19.039 going to be over? And he does have a lot 286 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:25.159 of that attitude, you know, off camera, but you know, 287 00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:29.039 I mean it's just as far as on camera, I've 288 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:33.200 never fully understood what the Randy Orton character is supposed 289 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:36.759 to be. I've always found it a little flat. But 290 00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:42.360 as far as the actual guy, I mean, he's he 291 00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:46.480 understands who he is, and he's uh, you know, he's 292 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:50.919 Randy and he's he's sometimes he's I mean I've seen him, 293 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:56.480 uh the script gets changed and it's kind of like, actually, 294 00:16:56.559 --> 00:16:59.039 you know what, maybe we don't need Randy this you know, 295 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:02.039 this week, and he can actually take off and he's 296 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:04.599 thrilled with that. You know, there are some guys who 297 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:09.039 would be you know, that would trigger some insecurity would 298 00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:10.279 be like, what do you mean you don't need me? 299 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:15.279 Like Randy's like, great, thank you. You know He's like 300 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:20.319 I don't see you, you know. So is that part 301 00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:22.279 of who he is or is he just secure? Like 302 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:26.039 they have really made him feel secure in his job 303 00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:28.680 and clearly as a viewer. You know, Randy is in 304 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:32.759 no uh is no uh a danger of you know, 305 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:36.000 not being utilized even when they kind of you know, 306 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:38.680 I mean, he's always going to be a top star, 307 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:43.480 but you know he's not. He's just hasn't always been 308 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:45.400 on the top of the top. You know, he's just 309 00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:47.720 you know, he's never been a mid card guy, and 310 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:50.200 he's never been a you know, a prelim guy. But 311 00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:53.720 is he kind of always been on the very top 312 00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:57.000 of the pecking order. No, but he still gets treated 313 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:02.799 as such. But you know, Randy's Randy's no bs, and 314 00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:06.000 he'll tell you exactly what he thinks. He will tell 315 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:09.200 you exactly what he thinks to your experience. 316 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.799 Do the writers and do his colleagues enjoy working with 317 00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:17.920 him or enter interaction with him with any kind of 318 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:22.319 trepidation or just mental preparation, Well, yes. 319 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:24.599 And no. I mean, Randy is he's a cool guy 320 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:28.839 and he's you know, it's it's you know, interacting with 321 00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:31.440 him isn't difficult. But he is somebody that when you 322 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:35.880 bring him something, you should be prepared for him to 323 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:39.839 give his feedback and if he doesn't like something, he 324 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:44.000 will tell you and if there is, you know, it's 325 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:47.480 kind of an ongoing thing. I would mention on the 326 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:50.079 Rewatch Wrestling podcast as I was there at a time 327 00:18:50.119 --> 00:18:53.759 when they pulled the they kind of threw the gauntlet 328 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:57.680 down and they were like, no more punt kick, because 329 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:01.079 the feeling was from the higher ups. If if it 330 00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:05.960 looks worked, it looks kind of lousy, and if it 331 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:09.160 looks real, it's because he actually did kick the person 332 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:11.039 in the head, and then that's a problem. You know. 333 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:14.039 So it was one of these things where it was like, 334 00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:16.960 you know what, let's just he can't use it anymore. 335 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:21.759 And I was there when that came down, and from 336 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:26.079 that point forward, that's basically all he wanted to talk about, 337 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:29.880 you know, And it became a kind of you know, 338 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:32.400 oh so we can hit Paul Bear with a truck, 339 00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:34.720 but I can't use my punt kick. You know. It's like, oh, 340 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:37.400 we can you know, I can threaten this person's life, 341 00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:39.400 but I can't use my punt kick. And it was 342 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:42.480 just kind of like, you know, the interactions I had 343 00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:44.160 with him. I think he was in a program with 344 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:45.559 Kane as a matter of fact at the time, and 345 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:47.160 it was just kind of like, you know, I would 346 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:50.960 give him the rundown of the show, and he's like, well, X, 347 00:19:51.079 --> 00:19:52.680 Y and Z can happen, but I can't use my 348 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:56.279 punt check. And I'm like, Randy. They talked to Hunter 349 00:19:56.319 --> 00:20:00.720 about it because I got I did not make the call. 350 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:04.000 He knows that, but you know, it's it's just like 351 00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:09.400 anybody who's who is invested in their you know, art, 352 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:14.200 and is frustrated because it's it's you're basically telling someone 353 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:16.720 you know that they're not good at what they're doing. 354 00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:18.400 You know, it's like, well, we're not going to use 355 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:21.359 the punt kick because if you're not kicking the person, 356 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:23.359 it looks bad. And if you are kicking them then 357 00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:27.039 then that's not wrestling. So I would I can appreciate 358 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:29.519 that level of frustration. You know. I was in a 359 00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:31.480 movie once where they took a line away from me 360 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:34.119 and I and I felt it's building where I'm like, 361 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:36.720 I'm not delivering this line well, and then they gave 362 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:39.000 it to another actor and then I was like, you 363 00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:43.039 know what, like that's that's not me. But it's also 364 00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:46.480 it's like, you know, uh, okay, I get it. I 365 00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:50.000 get it, but doesn't feel good, But all right, let's 366 00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:50.359 move on. 367 00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:53.440 Speaking of moving on, let's uh, let's let's move on 368 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:58.839 and introduce ourselves. We've covered one match, Matt, there we go. 369 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.079 This is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast for Friday, 370 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:07.119 September thirteenth, twenty nineteen. Thanks for downloading or streaming the 371 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:09.799 show today. I'm Wade Keller, host of the program, and 372 00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:13.519 I'm joined by Matt McCarthy, an ex WWE Creative Team member, 373 00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:17.039 professional standup comedian and actor, and also host of the 374 00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:22.799 Watch Wrestling podcast. He is at McCarthy redhead on Twitter. 375 00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:23.960 Did I get all that right? 376 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:27.559 Matt? You absolutely did all forms of social media at 377 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:29.000 McCarthy redhead. 378 00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:32.519 And tell people more about your podcast and why they 379 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:35.000 might be interested in clicking subscribe on that. 380 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:39.480 Yeah, we watch wrestling podcasts. We do new issues every Wednesday. 381 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.079 This week we had a live show that we did 382 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:45.119 in Los Angeles. There was our sixth anniversary show. And 383 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.000 next week is our live show that we did in 384 00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:52.359 Chicago on All Out Weekend, and that show we actually have. 385 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:55.960 One of our dear friends is a guest on the show, 386 00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:59.759 Marty de Rosa from Martin Saya Loves Wrestling and all 387 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:05.400 aaw and lots of other amazing things. And me and 388 00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:09.079 my co host Vin Tabril, we're both comedians and we're 389 00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:12.759 both die hard wrestling fans, and we have been watching 390 00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:15.559 our whole lives, and it really is that's the heart 391 00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:18.240 of the show. We don't typically have guests. It's usually 392 00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:21.160 just me and Vince just talking and you know, and 393 00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:24.599 trying to celebrate pro wrestling and not just you know, 394 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:26.680 talk about everything that we don't like about it, like 395 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:29.279 why they do this, why they do that, and especially 396 00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:31.960 in this day and age that we're living in right now, 397 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:34.200 we are so lucky to be wrestling fans that it's 398 00:22:34.279 --> 00:22:37.519 like it's it's we're wasting our time if we talk 399 00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:39.720 about the stuff we didn't like. It's like there's so 400 00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:42.839 much out there to enjoy, and so, you know, we're 401 00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:46.319 always going to shows. We went to Chicago the weekend 402 00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:48.400 before that, we were at the j Cup Finals out 403 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:51.160 here in LA and we're gonna go to PWG A 404 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:55.359 Battle of Los Angeles next weekend, and you know, just 405 00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:59.519 really appreciating that. I remember when we first started doing 406 00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:03.400 the show years ago, it's almost like be careful what 407 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:06.640 you wish for, because I found like an old TV 408 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:08.519 guide and I was like, you know, if you were 409 00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:10.400 living in a certain part of the country, all the 410 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:12.799 different wrestling that you could be watching. Like when I 411 00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:14.960 was a kid in the eighties, it's like, you know, 412 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.440 you had WWF on channel nine and on your Fox 413 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:21.160 affiliate or whatever on USA on Monday night, and then 414 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.000 you watch Saturday night at six oh five pm on TBS, 415 00:23:26.039 --> 00:23:28.119 and then if you had cable, you could watch maybe 416 00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:31.200 the Van Erks on ESPN, and you know, maybe you 417 00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:33.599 had some other cool local thing if you were in 418 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:37.960 Memphis or you know, Portland or wherever else now. 419 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:39.960 And if you were at a furniture store with your 420 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.920 mom at age twelve and world class Famia wrestling was 421 00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:45.640 about to begin in five minutes, you started panicking and 422 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:47.519 life was about to come to a complete end if 423 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:48.920 we didn't just get out of there and get home. 424 00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:51.240 That is a very different world. Also, yeah, could go on. 425 00:23:51.880 --> 00:23:52.599 That's a real story. 426 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.160 I mean I remember watching like a full morning of 427 00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:58.599 cartoons on Saturday and my mom coming in the room 428 00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:00.319 being like, all right, you've been watching two stee me 429 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:02.599 go outside and play, and I'm like, no, it's almost noon. 430 00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:05.759 Like wrestling. Saturday afternoon wrestling is about to start, Like 431 00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:09.960 I would have not watched the Smurfs and and all 432 00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:12.599 that stuff and dragons if but man, I could have 433 00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:16.480 watched wrestling and I got to go upside. But yeah, man, 434 00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:21.000 now it's like God with the Internet and a EWS 435 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.640 starting and now Impact is going to be starting on 436 00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:28.920 Access in October apparently, and it's it's there's a lot, man, 437 00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:31.720 and I live in Sokow, so I get to go 438 00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:33.839 to all these cool live shows all the time. I mean, 439 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:39.039 it's almost it's almost too much. I almost missed when 440 00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:41.759 there was no practically no wrestling that you. 441 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.680 Know, it feels like it might almost speech much. I 442 00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:46.599 want to talk about all some of that other stuff 443 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:50.480 with you as the show progresses. Well, let's not do 444 00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:52.720 twenty minutes on each of the class matches. I definitely 445 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:55.559 enjoyed the KOFE Randy discussion. I'm a little worried if 446 00:24:55.599 --> 00:24:58.240 we get into the build up to Braun and Rowan. 447 00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:04.799 Excuse me wrote God Roman? Because of Rowan and Roman, 448 00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:06.279 I don't want to say them back to back because 449 00:25:06.279 --> 00:25:08.200 it's a tongue twister. Then I just randomly throw another name. 450 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:12.920 Roman reigns Eric Rowan, the who Done It? Storyline as 451 00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:19.000 a as a discerning viewer, I am of logic and 452 00:25:19.359 --> 00:25:22.119 all that stuff and discussions we've had before. What has 453 00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:24.640 been your range of emotions watching this this storyline also 454 00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:28.000 involving Daniel Bryan and the Rowan look alike, who I 455 00:25:28.039 --> 00:25:29.880 feel like that was a like a fever dream, like 456 00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:32.720 that didn't even happen because it just came at the 457 00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:34.799 end of an episode ever brought up again? Yeah, So anyway, 458 00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:38.160 your your thoughts on this. I mean, I have somewhat 459 00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:42.640 facetiously called this the worst storyline in WWE history, and 460 00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:44.519 I can defend that, but I have to tweak the 461 00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:47.440 criteria a little bit in order to customize it to 462 00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:49.640 it being the worst ever. But I can make that case, 463 00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:53.960 but I have been really frustrated by how sloppy and unprofessional, 464 00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:56.160 and I just think consulting this whole thing has been 465 00:25:56.599 --> 00:26:00.240 from the beginning, We're gonna have an attempted murder by 466 00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:04.839 some heel tell the storyline horribly in a completely illogical way, 467 00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:07.559 and then in the end, the revenge is a babyface 468 00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:10.440 who doesn't really talk about it much, trying to pin 469 00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:12.680 the shoulders to the matt for account of three to 470 00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:14.880 get revenge for attempted murder. I mean, they're like, the 471 00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:17.839 whole premise is just flawed. It doesn't fit pro wrestling 472 00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:20.599 to do murder storylines. And if you're gonna do it, 473 00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:23.039 do it well. It'll still suck, but at least do 474 00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:24.480 it well. And they haven't done a wall, so I 475 00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:27.039 have totally loaded my question. But what have you thought 476 00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:27.200 of it? 477 00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:30.960 Mat No? No, I mean, you know, if we exclude 478 00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:35.359 things that are just downright offensive and bad taste, it 479 00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:42.279 probably is one of the worst storylines that has been presented. Because, yeah, 480 00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:45.839 once when the stakes are too high, it can't be 481 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:48.440 resolved in a wrestling match, even a no DQ match. 482 00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:53.000 It's funny now that I have the full card in 483 00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:55.960 front of me once again, there are way too many 484 00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:01.000 championships in WWE, because out of eleven matches, this is 485 00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:03.680 the only non title match. 486 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:05.599 I wish they would cancel it because it's class of 487 00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:08.200 champions on a There should be like a lawsuit brought 488 00:27:08.200 --> 00:27:10.599 to the district court that this can't even be on 489 00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:15.359 the class because that would be fine with me, right Yeah, yeah. 490 00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:20.119 Man, I mean I have basically had, you know, very 491 00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:26.759 little interest in the you know who who shot Roman storyline? 492 00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:33.519 You know who killed Jr. It's just but yeah, I 493 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.440 mean it the guy that kind of looked like Eric 494 00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:41.279 Rowan having a towel over his head for an entire 495 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:45.680 you know, night of SmackDown and just sitting there doing nothing, 496 00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:47.599 and then they pulled the thing off of his head 497 00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:51.240 and he's just the older version like it was it 498 00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:55.480 Rowan Dad what I don't know? And then it I 499 00:27:55.519 --> 00:28:01.160 don't know. Basically it it's Eric Rowan versus. Do I 500 00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:04.480 have interest in that match? With or without the build? No? 501 00:28:05.039 --> 00:28:09.079 And that's really what we're left with. Where is Daniel 502 00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:12.480 Brian and all this? I have no idea. I could 503 00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:15.680 see when this all started. I could at least see 504 00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:20.119 the logic of, all, right, this is they're drawing this 505 00:28:20.200 --> 00:28:24.440 out further than because this started before SummerSlam. That's crazy 506 00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:26.519 to think of it in terms of that. And it's 507 00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:29.240 almost like I was like, Okay, wellther they've been drawing 508 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:32.559 this out longer than it would take to get this 509 00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:35.680 to SummerSlam. If we're going to do Roman Rains versus 510 00:28:35.799 --> 00:28:40.039 Daniel Brian, now I could at least see the booking 511 00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:43.160 logic of Okay, we're going to draw this out. We 512 00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:47.359 can do some TV stuff with Roman Reigns and Eric Rowan, 513 00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:50.400 because there's more than one heel involved in this thing, 514 00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:54.640 then they kind of I don't know. I just I've 515 00:28:54.680 --> 00:28:56.440 worked with Vincent Man and I've heard him say the 516 00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:58.880 words of oh, you got to take him for a ride. 517 00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:02.359 So then all of a sudden, once Buddy Murphy's involved, 518 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:04.799 I'm like, all right, are we muddying the waters or 519 00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:08.200 are we just extending this program? Because I'm all for 520 00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:12.599 a long drawn out program. But the you know, there 521 00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:16.799 has just been such a there's no logic, you know, 522 00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:21.279 and it's funny. I mean, it's it's it's you know, 523 00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:25.599 I've been watching so much Harley Race after he died 524 00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:30.039 that it was comical to me of like I forgot 525 00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:34.039 like in a day and age when you know, did 526 00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:36.440 people still believe in the product? Did they still think 527 00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:37.440 it was real? Maybe? 528 00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:37.960 I don't know. 529 00:29:38.079 --> 00:29:41.599 Did anyone ever, I don't know. I can't say. But 530 00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:46.480 the idea that the world heavyweight Champion is on television 531 00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:50.000 with a briefcase full of money, screaming, somebody take out 532 00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:53.920 Rick Flair, some collect this twenty five thousand dollars. I'm 533 00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:56.559 sick of Ric Flair. And then comparing it to a 534 00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:59.279 legitimate sport. If like Michael Jordan was on the TV 535 00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:02.279 screaming like I will pay twenty five thousand dollars to 536 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:05.440 anyone that will hurt Larry Bird, so he could not 537 00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:10.880 participate in this basketball game, like get out like anyone, 538 00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:13.640 Magic Johnson, you can have all this money, just take 539 00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:17.160 out Larry Bird. I'm sick of Larry Bird. So this 540 00:30:17.319 --> 00:30:20.039 idea of like, it's not the reason I bring it 541 00:30:20.119 --> 00:30:22.839 up is like, it's not a brand new idea of Well, 542 00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:25.279 if I just take out the competition, then I will 543 00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:31.519 have no competition. So it's is daniel'brien the brains behind this? 544 00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:35.279 Have they drawn it out too far? Like was it? 545 00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:38.079 Did Eric Rowan go into business for himself? Like the 546 00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:41.319 Rakishi thing, hitting Austin with the car and all that. 547 00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:49.000 I mean, I'm Chris Maitland and I'm Justin McClellan. We 548 00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:51.640 host Wrestling Coast to Coast where we scour the wrestling 549 00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:54.079 scene to find the best wrestling from the smallest places. 550 00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:57.200 There are thousands of matches happening every week, so Wrestling 551 00:30:57.240 --> 00:30:59.400 Coast to Coast is here to discover the men and 552 00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:01.880 women be big time stars in a few years. 553 00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:05.039 There are plenty of podcasts de voters at WW and AW, 554 00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:08.200 but what's happening in the armories and gymnasiums local wrestling 555 00:31:08.200 --> 00:31:09.480 hotspots around the country. 556 00:31:09.799 --> 00:31:11.720 We can't wait to help you find the true hidden 557 00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:14.000 gems of the wrestling world. Plus you can hear Chris 558 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:16.119 complain about bad referees. 559 00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:17.799 And justin bemoaning dogpow fins. 560 00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:20.359 Don't forget my feudal search to see a blue Thunderbomb 561 00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:20.960 win a match. 562 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:22.480 How can I like? 563 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:25.119 The name says we cover the hottest independent promotions from 564 00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:29.319 around the country, such as Prestige Action, West Coast Pro, Revolver, 565 00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:30.559 and Beyond Wrestling. 566 00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:33.319 Actually, Chris, I think we stick pretty much too Wrestling. 567 00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:35.880 No, I mean Beyond Wrestling out of Wooster, Oh right. 568 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:38.519 Our show's part of the PW Torch Daily Cast lineup 569 00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:41.559 and typically drops on Thursdays. Search PW Torch in your 570 00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:44.480 podcast app as, subscribe to the PW Torch Daily Cast, 571 00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:48.079 or stream our shows directly from PW touch dot com. 572 00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:52.640 Find full details on the PW Torchdailycast lineup at pwtrschdailycast 573 00:31:52.720 --> 00:32:00.160 dot com. 574 00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:03.680 I don't know, man, It's just I get once this 575 00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:06.799 whole thing started. The second that something like a bunch 576 00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:09.640 of scaffolding or whatever it was almost fell on Roman Range. 577 00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:12.319 I was like, immediately, I feel like I've seen this 578 00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:15.839 before and I already don't care, you know, from the 579 00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:18.799 from from the word go, I was like, this has 580 00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:21.720 just been done. It's just not good at this. 581 00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:23.400 That's the other thing too that strikes us. 582 00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:27.519 I think, no, no, I think Vince's Vince is surrounded 583 00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:31.920 by very talented creative people and and and deaf storytellers. 584 00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:36.559 But I think the Vince is a promoter, and give 585 00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:39.920 him something to promote, and if it's a who done it? 586 00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:43.200 Then Vince's inclination is to put a hat on a 587 00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:46.079 hat and it's like, well who done it? No, we 588 00:32:46.160 --> 00:32:48.640 need well who did this? Who did that? What did 589 00:32:48.680 --> 00:32:52.000 Buddy Murphy c? Who's the man? And then you get 590 00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:53.839 Vince in the room the next week and he's just 591 00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:57.319 like he's like, nobody remembers that. Move on now it's 592 00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:01.240 you know it. There's a there's not a lot of 593 00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:05.359 give and take with Vince. With the audience. He feels like, well, 594 00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:08.880 if Vince doesn't remember something, he feels like, well, nobody 595 00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:13.119 remembers it or Vince has decided that he doesn't care anymore. 596 00:33:13.720 --> 00:33:16.519 He's also decided that the audience doesn't care anymore. And 597 00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:20.240 it's like, well, we're making the audience not care by 598 00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:24.359 not following through on X, Y and Z, and it 599 00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:26.519 makes it a little more difficult as a viewer, to 600 00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:32.440 especially a seasoned viewer. It's not thinking, all right, well 601 00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:36.480 put it this way. With AW I have at LEA 602 00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:39.359 or New Japan. It's probably a better example because AW 603 00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:43.039 doesn't have TV yet, But with New Japan, I am 604 00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:49.640 much more inclined to believe it's going somewhere, and I'm 605 00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:52.000 much more willing to say, all right, well let's see 606 00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:56.160 where this is going. And basically, more times than not, 607 00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:58.759 and I don't even know if it has been a knot, 608 00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:02.160 there is always payoff, and I can look back and say, 609 00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:05.799 oh my gosh, look at all the seeds that were planted, 610 00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:08.599 kind of like that you know, Rock angle from twenty 611 00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:12.199 years ago leading into that Survivor series. I go back 612 00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:15.400 and like everything that was presented as oh wow, Rock 613 00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:18.920 lucked into this. Then I can look back and be like, 614 00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:22.000 oh wow, that was their plan all along, you know, 615 00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:24.559 which is that that's what. 616 00:34:24.519 --> 00:34:27.840 You hope for Yeah, that's what you hoped for. You 617 00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:31.400 But if you are watching a movie by a director 618 00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:34.360 that that has a history of not paying things off 619 00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:36.960 and having the murderer be a new character in the 620 00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:41.639 last scene, you know you right, you disinvest pretty early 621 00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:43.679 and that's why you saw The Greats fall over and 622 00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:45.280 you're like, Okay, but no, this isn't gonna be good. 623 00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:51.280 Right. But but all that being said, I have enjoyed this, 624 00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:55.960 you know, series of television, but for all the wrong reasons, 625 00:34:56.360 --> 00:35:00.480 Like I enjoy watching you know, Canon films or you 626 00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:04.400 know Edwood movies. Like I was just at I was 627 00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:06.440 just at a thrift store and I saw a movie 628 00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:09.119 with Michael Dudakov and I was like, oh my gosh, 629 00:35:09.159 --> 00:35:11.039 I have to buy this, not because I think Michael 630 00:35:11.079 --> 00:35:14.320 Dudakov is the world's best actor, but because he was 631 00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:16.639 in and I was like, oh, this is gonna be preposterous, 632 00:35:18.400 --> 00:35:21.440 you know, Like like I've been collecting Nick Cage movies. 633 00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:24.880 Nick Cage is a kind of a I'm digressing now, 634 00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:27.320 but it is it's like is he good? Is he bad? 635 00:35:27.559 --> 00:35:29.719 Does he know what he's doing? And there is an 636 00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:32.119 instrigue there, But I just know that I'm entertained by it. 637 00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:35.639 With Vince McMahon, there are times when I'm like, I'm 638 00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:38.320 going to keep watching because I'm just fascinated to see 639 00:35:38.360 --> 00:35:41.079 what Vince is going to do next, you know, like 640 00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:44.039 where where is this going to lead us? Because when 641 00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:47.599 when they pulled the towel off of the old Rowan, 642 00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:50.360 I was on the floor and I was like, you 643 00:35:50.440 --> 00:35:53.880 have got to be kidding me. I'm not expecting a 644 00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:56.199 follow up, but if there is one, I'm on the 645 00:35:56.320 --> 00:35:58.840 edge of my seat. And you know, there wasn't really 646 00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:02.079 much a follow up with and I wasn't expecting ones 647 00:36:02.119 --> 00:36:02.599 to begin with. 648 00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:04.880 And then we get granny footage that might be Rowan, 649 00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:06.800 it might be the wrong and look alone right, and 650 00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:09.320 Brian is one hundred percent convinced it's Rowan, could be 651 00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:13.480 the wrong lookalike. But unless Brian knows there there like, 652 00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:16.000 there was no Rowan look alike. He just hired the guy, 653 00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:18.800 so then he knows it's not him. But Brian, in 654 00:36:18.840 --> 00:36:22.599 his mind should be thinking, nobody else knows that I 655 00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:25.440 hired this guy who looks like sort of like Rowan 656 00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:28.880 to be the culprit, So why am I Why can't 657 00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:30.280 I just point at the screen and go, oh, yeah, 658 00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:32.239 that's the guy on I took the to hood off 659 00:36:32.239 --> 00:36:35.000 of last week, like he instantly just gave up Rowan. 660 00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:38.360 And then we have the confusion over our Rowan and 661 00:36:38.360 --> 00:36:40.519 Brian both bad guys. Did one of them turn? Who were? 662 00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:43.000 Who side are we supposed to be on? I mean, 663 00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:47.440 it's it's such a mess. I can't even my brain 664 00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:52.400 around it. It's so awful now. Writing aside, I think 665 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:55.039 that Brian's been fun to watch. Brian's always fun to watch, 666 00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:57.840 and I thought rowand and I thought Rowan did a 667 00:36:57.880 --> 00:36:59.960 nice job this week on the promo. I mean, I'm 668 00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:02.840 I don't know what to expect from him in the 669 00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:05.280 ring in an elevated situation. I think everyone saw Luke 670 00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:08.719 Carper is a better worker between those two. I still 671 00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:10.840 don't know quite where this is going. Does Roman just 672 00:37:10.880 --> 00:37:13.320 beat him and that's it and then we just sort 673 00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:15.280 of pretend never happened to move on and go to 674 00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:18.480 Fox or Or is this stage one in Daniel Brian 675 00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:21.760 being revealed as some sort of mastermind after all, and 676 00:37:21.800 --> 00:37:25.239 this is to build up Roman versus Brian. But in 677 00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:29.320 the end, I don't think this storyline has has intrigued 678 00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:33.840 people enough to be worth the nonsense that it didn't 679 00:37:33.880 --> 00:37:35.519 have to be this bad. But even if well done, 680 00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:37.800 you just can't pull off murder storylines where the payoff 681 00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:40.159 is a wrestling match. Even a hell want to sell 682 00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:43.079 Brian Rowan a hell and a cell doesn't work. It's 683 00:37:43.480 --> 00:37:45.599 that shouldn't be how you build up fees in pro wrestlings. 684 00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:48.599 I mean, I say that about something subjective, but I 685 00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:51.039 believe that is objectively true. 686 00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:55.280 No, No, they heightened too much. And then, you know, 687 00:37:55.519 --> 00:38:00.880 because it's it's like pro wrestling is you know, I mean, 688 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:02.320 it's the thing I feel like we talked about it 689 00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:04.400 last time, and it is that thing of like you 690 00:38:04.599 --> 00:38:08.800 it's a soap opera. But you can't do the The 691 00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:12.000 stakes can't be too high because the only payoff is 692 00:38:12.039 --> 00:38:16.480 going to be a wrestling match, you know, Like it 693 00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:18.559 can be. It can be we don't get along. It 694 00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:23.119 can even be I don't know, like like even like 695 00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:26.559 you know, Dusky Roads getting attacked in the parking lot 696 00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:31.280 by the four Horsemen. It's like, I guess, on on 697 00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:35.800 on paper, they could have killed him, you know, like it, 698 00:38:36.360 --> 00:38:39.079 but I mean it's like, but they broke his arm 699 00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:41.559 or whatever they did or like you know, Greg Valentine 700 00:38:41.559 --> 00:38:44.079 breaking Wahoo's leg. It's like that's that's how you start 701 00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:47.280 a program. Or you know, if we're if we're going 702 00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:50.079 to start it with physicality, because then it needs to 703 00:38:50.199 --> 00:38:53.719 end with physicality. It was just gonna start I don't know, 704 00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:59.000 I mean trying to take somebody out like a you can't. 705 00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:02.079 Like what every three years you can do something that's 706 00:39:02.119 --> 00:39:05.920 outside the bounds of because you want to shock people, 707 00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:08.000 and then you have to do it well, but not 708 00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:09.880 outside the mounds like attempted murder, but like you know, 709 00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:12.400 a parking lot attack, like it can really mean something 710 00:39:12.440 --> 00:39:13.639 if you don't do it a lot, and when you 711 00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:15.039 do it, you do it well, and you don't do 712 00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:18.119 it to make a few no one cares about relevant. 713 00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:20.039 You have to do it to elevate a feud. Because 714 00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:21.840 fans are so invested, you can kind of get away 715 00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:25.039 with it. But otherwise, if you're a pro wrestling, if 716 00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:27.679 you're in the progressing business and you're creating storylines, you're 717 00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:30.800 vincent man. You're one of the writers. Whatever it. If 718 00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:33.920 the premise of all your writing isn't that everybody has 719 00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:36.119 gathered here, all these world class athletes to find out 720 00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:38.639 who the best professional wrestler is. If that's too boring 721 00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:39.880 for you and you think no one will want to 722 00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:42.760 watch it, goes into some other line of business, because 723 00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:45.599 that's what you're that's the business you're in. Like, you 724 00:39:45.639 --> 00:39:48.719 can't be in the fast food business and be serving 725 00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:51.920 burgers and be in your mind constantly be thinking why 726 00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:55.159 would anyone eat this crap? This is killing America? Like, no, 727 00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:57.119 you got to go then go work in a health 728 00:39:57.159 --> 00:40:00.079 food industry. If you're in the progressing industry, you have 729 00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:03.119 I have to be invested in the idea that we 730 00:40:03.159 --> 00:40:06.159 can convince our audience. And I say this with no skepticism. 731 00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:07.800 It can be done. It absolutely has been done and 732 00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:10.000 can be done and still can be done. That there's 733 00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:12.920 these outliner's personalities who are tremendous athletes who are incredibly 734 00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:16.559 entertaining to watch in these simulated combat battles, and they're 735 00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:20.519 doing it because calling yourself the best pro wrestler is enough. 736 00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:22.840 That's what we're all fighting over a chance to fight 737 00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:25.119 for the championship. So we can be Rick Flair with 738 00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:28.039 the limousines or John Cena with the spinning belt or whatever, 739 00:40:28.360 --> 00:40:30.400 and like that has to be enough, and if you 740 00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:33.679 do that, well everything falls into place when you don't 741 00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:35.360 keep your eye on that and you think, well, who 742 00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:37.880 would care about that? It's fake? So now we're gonna 743 00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:39.519 do something even more fake to make up for it, 744 00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:42.000 and we're gonna do it poorly. You're in the wrong business. 745 00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:43.000 Move on to something else. 746 00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:46.719 This isn't your thing, Oh absolutely, I mean that's the thing. 747 00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:49.119 It's like Vince Dan is a promoter. He thinks of 748 00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:52.679 himself as well. He thinks of himself as Walt Disney, 749 00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:55.960 which is even in and of itself wrong. I'm like, 750 00:40:56.119 --> 00:41:00.039 what he actually thinks he is is Aaron Spelling. I 751 00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:04.840 think he's the world's greatest television storyteller, which he's not. 752 00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:12.840 And and it shows the thing with with like it's man. 753 00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:14.360 When I was a kid, it was it was so 754 00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:16.519 easy to get in and out of storylines with Hul 755 00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:19.480 Cogan or even with Stone Cold too, because it was 756 00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:24.119 like people wanted the belt. That was enough. Like every 757 00:41:24.199 --> 00:41:27.159 heel could cut a promo, even if they were in 758 00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:29.559 a TV feud with somebody else, they could still mention 759 00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:32.920 the Hulk Cogan because he was the one. Like if 760 00:41:32.920 --> 00:41:35.239 I beat Hulk, then it proves that I'm the best 761 00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:38.840 because he's got the fucking belty. You know, he's the 762 00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:44.480 one I want. That was the thing with the Rock. 763 00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:48.000 It was like he he screwed over mankind, he screwed 764 00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:51.480 over the world because he wanted the belt, and I 765 00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:53.840 always come back to that, you know, pockage. They would 766 00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:56.119 show where it was like the Rock being like I'm 767 00:41:56.119 --> 00:41:58.760 the WWF champ, I'm a millionaire. You know, it's like, 768 00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:02.360 what more of that do you need? Like, you know, 769 00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:05.519 I'm not like, at no point was I like, you know, 770 00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:08.320 I can't remember. I don't think I've ever gotten behind 771 00:42:08.360 --> 00:42:11.599 a wrestler because somehow I had the perception of, God, 772 00:42:11.719 --> 00:42:14.360 this guy makes less money than me. You know, he 773 00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:16.840 can't even like the Kevin Owens things like I don't know, 774 00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:18.079 how is he gonna send this kid. 775 00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:19.840 The other worst storyline of all time this month? 776 00:42:20.360 --> 00:42:22.320 I mean, my god, it's like, do I want to 777 00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:24.880 watch this guy kick somebody's butt? Or am I like, 778 00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:26.599 are we going to pass the hat for him? 779 00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:28.159 I mean it's like I just want to slip him 780 00:42:28.159 --> 00:42:30.800 a note and go State colleges are pretty good and 781 00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:33.840 you can you know, you're just fine. You know, you 782 00:42:33.880 --> 00:42:35.960 can go work for AW when your contract's up, and 783 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:37.519 in one year you'll have enough money to pay for 784 00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:40.480 your kids and they're still young, and your wife can work. 785 00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:43.440 There's all kinds of things you can do besides given 786 00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:46.920 to Shane McMahon's to sabotage the dreams of Chad Gable, 787 00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:49.719 this underdog who has earned his way into this spot. 788 00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:52.719 And because you can't fathom how to plan your damn 789 00:42:52.760 --> 00:42:55.679 kid's education with ten years notice and all these other 790 00:42:55.719 --> 00:42:57.719 options that are affordable to the people in the audience 791 00:42:57.760 --> 00:42:59.880 paying money to see you, You're not willing to sc 792 00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:04.119 over Chad Gable. Don't ever claim her babyface ever again, 793 00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:07.000 because your character has been ruined. 794 00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:12.039 Terrible, I know, but it's I can at least watch 795 00:43:12.079 --> 00:43:15.239 it on a certain level and be entertained, albeit for 796 00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:19.639 the wrong reasons, but because the only time that I 797 00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:22.639 I think any wrestling fan gets frustrated with WWE is 798 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:26.880 when we expect them to not be WWE once. I mean, god, 799 00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:30.760 it was years ago I remember hearing about or reading 800 00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:36.840 about like Daniel Bryan and Cizarro. They realized they were like, 801 00:43:36.920 --> 00:43:40.000 oh wait, this isn't a wrestling company. This is a 802 00:43:40.039 --> 00:43:44.159 parody of a Wrestling Company, and once they realized that 803 00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:47.559 that they they suddenly became comfortable, you know, just showing 804 00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:51.480 up to work and punching the clock. Yeah, because it's like, 805 00:43:51.639 --> 00:43:54.880 I mean, talk about two guys that came from you know, 806 00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:59.239 just spectacular indie careers and then at least Brian broke 807 00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:01.119 out of it. I mean, the fact that Czarro is 808 00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:04.480 still kind of just you know, he's just kind of 809 00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:06.960 in that nebulous state that he's always been in at 810 00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:10.960 WW it's a shame. But yeah, yeah, man, I mean. 811 00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:19.719 So man, yes, So they were five days out from 812 00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:23.840 the Class of Champions when SmackDown airs, and all anybody's 813 00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:26.480 thinking about, all anybody is thinking about at the end 814 00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:29.519 of SmackDown is something having to do with Kevin Owens 815 00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:33.599 and Shane McMahon, who, let me check, are not on 816 00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:37.719 the Class of Champions. Norah's Chad Gable, Norah's Baron corbyin 817 00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:41.039 his opponent that's been moved to Raw. So I mean 818 00:44:41.079 --> 00:44:43.199 it's just like it's I know, they're trying to, you know, 819 00:44:43.239 --> 00:44:45.440 get ratings up so they don't get too embarrassed with 820 00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:48.360 viewership leading into Fox. I mean, they're gonna do better 821 00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:50.639 than reruns on Fridays I've been doing. They're gonna do 822 00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:53.599 way worse than Monday through Thursday. And Fox should know 823 00:44:53.639 --> 00:44:55.159 what they're getting, but they want a little better than 824 00:44:55.159 --> 00:44:56.960 what they're getting based on when they sign a contract, 825 00:44:57.000 --> 00:44:58.719 and I get Vince's trying to prop that up. Shane 826 00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:02.400 mcmatagainst Chad Gable is I guess a decent stuff soude 827 00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:04.039 for a lives, but all the focus is on something 828 00:45:04.039 --> 00:45:06.360 has nothing to do with trying to get people excited 829 00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:09.880 about the centerpiece of their WWB network, which is a 830 00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:12.320 huge chunk of their revenue, the monthly pay per views, 831 00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:14.840 And so I just I scratched my hat at that. 832 00:45:14.920 --> 00:45:17.760 I would have ended the show with something SmackDown related, 833 00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:20.079 either the women's title or the men's title match, to 834 00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:22.320 kind of hit that crescendo. So that's what people are 835 00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:25.480 talking about. The Shane Kevin Owen stuff shouldn't have been 836 00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:27.119 on the on the show because it's so bad, But 837 00:45:27.159 --> 00:45:29.360 if it was gonna be, it should have been seen 838 00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:32.320 as a third or fourth from the top issue on 839 00:45:32.360 --> 00:45:34.480 the show instead of well it's a McMahon's, it has 840 00:45:34.519 --> 00:45:35.960 to be at the top. That's how I took it. 841 00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.159 Yeah, it's so weird. It almost feels like every step 842 00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:41.880 of the way with this, you know, Kevin Owens Shane thing, 843 00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:45.719 it has been like a what are we building towards? 844 00:45:46.119 --> 00:45:49.320 You know, like that, like I don't remember what show 845 00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:51.920 they were leading into, but again it was it was 846 00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:54.239 like that first time that Shane was out there and 847 00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:57.519 Kevin Owens comes out and almost hijacked the microphones and 848 00:45:57.559 --> 00:46:00.920 starts running them down. It was like, oh cool, I 849 00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:03.599 can't wait. It might have even been leading into when 850 00:46:03.639 --> 00:46:06.559 they were doing Roman Versus Shane, and it was like, 851 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:09.000 all of a sudden, they made me want to see 852 00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:12.199 Shane versus Kevin Owens, but instead on Sunday I was 853 00:46:12.199 --> 00:46:16.719 gonna be watching Roman Versus Shane. It's just this bizarre misdirection. 854 00:46:17.800 --> 00:46:20.440 Not even misdirection, because that would be intentional. It's just 855 00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:23.320 like they're just bad booking. 856 00:46:23.440 --> 00:46:29.239 Basically, anytime you're watching WWE Raw or SmackDown or AW 857 00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:32.000 Dynamite in particular, send us an email if you've got 858 00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:33.800 thoughts on the show or a topic you want us 859 00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:37.599 to address or a question for us. Wadekeller Podcast at 860 00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:42.760 pwtorch dot com. Wadekeller Podcast at pewtorch dot com if 861 00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:44.480 there's anything else going on in pro wrestling that you 862 00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:46.960 want us to address on our main podcast during our 863 00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:50.800 mailbank segments. That same email applies Wade Keller podcast at 864 00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:54.239 pw torch dot com. We invite that interaction, let us 865 00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:56.400 know what you think of what we're saying, and let 866 00:46:56.480 --> 00:46:58.320 us know what you want us to talk about and 867 00:46:58.480 --> 00:47:04.719 ask us specific questions. Collor podcast at pw torch dot com. 868 00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:08.880 How much how much agency did wrestlers ever have when 869 00:47:08.920 --> 00:47:12.079 you were around and creative that you witnessed, Like, at 870 00:47:12.159 --> 00:47:15.840 what level did a wrestler get to speak up or 871 00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:18.599 feel comfortable going I know this has meant through a 872 00:47:18.599 --> 00:47:20.280 lot of layers to get to me, and it's a 873 00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:22.360 big deal at this time to bring up that this 874 00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:24.199 isn't good for my character. It doesn't make sense or 875 00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:26.000 I don't get it. I mean, is there just no 876 00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:28.360 time and your wrestlers just kind of have it beaten 877 00:47:28.360 --> 00:47:32.480 out of them. Your job is just do what you're told. 878 00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:39.239 People had look nobody hire well they were. I kind 879 00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:44.440 of saw every different reaction. I don't think at any level, 880 00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:50.760 I don't. I don't think any wrestler ever said I 881 00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:54.079 know that this has been through a lot of a 882 00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:58.559 lot of layers before it got here, but usually they 883 00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:00.199 would just say, well, why the hell would I do that? 884 00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:05.639 You know? So, you know, if it was like Randy 885 00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:08.920 Orton or Big Show, I could see them just being like, 886 00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:13.320 why would I do that? That's dumb, you know. But 887 00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:18.960 like a John Cena would just would more be interested 888 00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:22.480 in working with you and be like, Okay, well I 889 00:48:22.519 --> 00:48:25.800 don't see it that way, but what about this? Or 890 00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:31.119 like a Chris Jericho would more be like, well get up, 891 00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:34.199 let me sit down, and he would type up what 892 00:48:34.280 --> 00:48:38.559 he wanted to do. Whereas like other people who were 893 00:48:38.840 --> 00:48:41.639 you know, and those are all basically top guys, so 894 00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:46.320 they felt comfortable doing that. Somebody like or like a 895 00:48:46.360 --> 00:48:50.079 cmpunk who wasn't who was getting close to being a 896 00:48:50.079 --> 00:48:53.159 top guy but wasn't quite there yet. When I was there, 897 00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:56.159 he would very much speak up and be like, why 898 00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:57.079 the hell would I do that? 899 00:48:57.559 --> 00:48:58.679 Did he have a good way? 900 00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:02.119 I even I even saw Matt Striker do that. He 901 00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:04.639 would be like, well, what's what's the logic there? He's like, 902 00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:07.239 why would why would my characters say that? And but 903 00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:10.840 he would listen, he would hear you out. But I 904 00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:14.800 mean even like you know, even like a Santino or 905 00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:17.920 or even like Zach Ryder. Not not as aggressive as 906 00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:20.760 everyone else I mentioned, but you know, they would be 907 00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:24.119 like they'd be like, well, I don't know, you know, 908 00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:27.440 because because they care, you know, yeah, but not to 909 00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:31.400 say he doesn't care, but like somebody like Cain, very 910 00:49:31.480 --> 00:49:35.280 rarely if ever, would say that doesn't make any sense. 911 00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:39.119 You know, Cain was, you know, the easiest guy to 912 00:49:39.199 --> 00:49:41.599 work with because you would hand him something and he'd 913 00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:44.280 be like okay, and then he would go and memorize it, 914 00:49:44.679 --> 00:49:46.280 and then he would go out there and kill it. 915 00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:48.880 You know. I don't think I still don't think Kine 916 00:49:48.880 --> 00:49:52.280 gets enough credit for how well he did that character. 917 00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:56.320 And I feel like he was almost one of the 918 00:49:56.320 --> 00:49:59.760 guys that he'd almost like a Ted Knight in Caddy 919 00:49:59.800 --> 00:50:03.159 Show Where, because I will argue that Ted Knight is 920 00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:06.440 actually the funniest person in that whole movie, and that's 921 00:50:06.440 --> 00:50:09.800 the movie was like Heavyweights, you know, Bill Murray, Rodney, Dangerfield, 922 00:50:09.880 --> 00:50:12.519 Chevy Chase, you name it. And I think Ted Knight 923 00:50:12.599 --> 00:50:15.159 was actually the funniest in that movie because he's so 924 00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:19.320 good in that movie. You forget that he's an actor 925 00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:21.719 playing a character. You just assume he's that guy. I 926 00:50:21.719 --> 00:50:23.800 feel like Kine is kind of in that same class 927 00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:27.159 of like you almost take Kane for granted, you know, 928 00:50:27.239 --> 00:50:30.519 it would, I mean granted when you factor in Vince's 929 00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:32.960 booking of like, oh Kane's coming out, you're like, oh, well, 930 00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:35.239 here comes a big guy to squash a little guy. 931 00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:38.719 But in and of itself, I don't think there was 932 00:50:38.920 --> 00:50:41.360 a moment where we didn't buy Kane as that character. 933 00:50:41.719 --> 00:50:44.400 And it's such an over the top, ridiculous, you know, 934 00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:49.000 supernatural character, but we still bought it. You know, it was. 935 00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:53.800 It's an interesting dynamic there. But you know, I remember 936 00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:57.599 I was there when aj Lee kind of got her push, 937 00:50:57.760 --> 00:50:59.639 not kind of where she got her push, when she 938 00:50:59.679 --> 00:51:03.119 first got paired up with Daniel Bryant, And I mean 939 00:51:03.159 --> 00:51:06.039 I saw the change from you know, it went from 940 00:51:06.599 --> 00:51:08.639 I'm sorry, wait, can I just ask you a cool question? 941 00:51:08.719 --> 00:51:10.320 I'm not sure about this? And you kind of have 942 00:51:10.440 --> 00:51:12.320 to say to her, Okay, all right, well don't worry 943 00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:13.760 you're going to kill it. Just go out there and 944 00:51:13.840 --> 00:51:15.960 kill it, you know. Yeah, Like I remember there was 945 00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:19.840 that one interaction her and Natty had on TV where 946 00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:21.679 it was like, Okay, just go out there and just 947 00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:24.440 pound on her and I think she actually got in 948 00:51:24.599 --> 00:51:27.440 a couple of potatoes, not intentionally, but Natty I think 949 00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:29.239 got like a bloody lip or a bloody nose, if 950 00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:32.039 I remember correctly. And I remember AJ coming back through 951 00:51:32.079 --> 00:51:33.360 the curtain and she was just kind of like, oh 952 00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:36.440 my god, is that cool? And everyone's like, you did great. 953 00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:40.280 And I remember kind of towards the end of the 954 00:51:40.559 --> 00:51:45.159 that my run there, AJ had gone from I'm sorry, 955 00:51:45.159 --> 00:51:47.559 can I ask you a cool question? To I don't 956 00:51:47.559 --> 00:51:50.760 think my character would say that, you know, and it's so, 957 00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:55.760 is it? You know, I'm not and she was. And 958 00:51:55.840 --> 00:51:58.440 let me make it clear, like she was wonderful to 959 00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:00.400 work with, and she was a sweetie pie. I always, 960 00:52:00.639 --> 00:52:04.639 you know, enjoyed interacting with her. Heard Caitlin were two 961 00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:07.360 of my favorite people to work with when I was there. 962 00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:12.280 But it's it gets to the point of, you know, 963 00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:17.760 how much input are you going to have on your product? 964 00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:20.360 Because you you are the product. When you're a wrestler, 965 00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:25.960 it's you're the commodity, you know. I remember being an 966 00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:29.159 interview with Elizabeth Taylor where she, you know, that's somebody 967 00:52:29.159 --> 00:52:31.880 who started as a child actor and she realized very 968 00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:35.199 early on, like, oh, there's a difference between Elizabeth Taylor 969 00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:39.320 the person and Elizabeth Taylor the commodity. You know, and 970 00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:41.599 if and if you're savvy enough, and clearly she was, 971 00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:44.519 she could see the difference and well, what's going to 972 00:52:44.559 --> 00:52:48.480 affect the other? So, you know, I mean, I think 973 00:52:48.519 --> 00:52:51.440 somebody like a Big Show or Randy Orton, they were 974 00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:54.519 kind of more like, you know, why are you making 975 00:52:54.559 --> 00:52:57.320 me do something? Whereas like, you know, kind of a 976 00:52:57.400 --> 00:53:00.880 John Cena or or even a Jericho was Jericho is 977 00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:03.880 probably the best example of somebody who is like, well, 978 00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:08.480 let's see what makes sense for Jericho. I mean, clearly, 979 00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:13.000 this is a guy who is invested in his character, 980 00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:18.079 in his commodity and has clearly I mean talk about 981 00:53:18.119 --> 00:53:20.280 because I mean it's like, on the one hand, when 982 00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:21.960 I bring up like, well they should break up the 983 00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:23.760 New Day, and it's like, well, are we leaving money 984 00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:26.000 on the table? The New Day's a good you know act. 985 00:53:26.119 --> 00:53:29.199 It's like, look no further than Chris Jericho. Chris Jericho 986 00:53:29.320 --> 00:53:34.559 has completely blown up and rebuilt himself how many times 987 00:53:34.599 --> 00:53:37.039 over the last twenty five years. I mean, it's incredible 988 00:53:37.079 --> 00:53:39.960 to think of like Jericho in the summer of nineteen 989 00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:42.239 ninety eight. It's like, why would you change that character? 990 00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:46.199 It's such a hot character. Whereas it's like how many 991 00:53:46.239 --> 00:53:50.239 times has he reinvented himself and made it work because 992 00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:53.280 he cares? You know, I mean the lesser hands you 993 00:53:53.320 --> 00:53:56.079 could just think of like, oh, Chris Jericho, Oh the 994 00:53:56.119 --> 00:53:58.760 guy that wore the jacket with the lights in it. God, 995 00:53:58.840 --> 00:54:02.360 that was like three iterations ago. Yes, you know, why 996 00:54:02.360 --> 00:54:04.880 would you stop doing the list of Jericho? It's such 997 00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:07.119 a hot angle, it's such a good thing. It's like, 998 00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:09.360 because he did it, he's done with it, and now 999 00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:12.000 he's moved on to something even better. Yeah, you know 1000 00:54:12.239 --> 00:54:15.840 it's yeah, yeah, because I mean, at no point with 1001 00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:18.320 Jericho have you stopped him and like I think he 1002 00:54:18.400 --> 00:54:20.320 made a mistake by moving on to this new thing. 1003 00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:21.960 It's like, no, he moved on to a new thing 1004 00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:25.280 and he's making it work. You know. It's it's incredible. Yeah, 1005 00:54:25.320 --> 00:54:28.320 you know, so it's it's it's but you know, it's 1006 00:54:28.360 --> 00:54:32.159 some people are are easier to work with than others, 1007 00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:34.800 and some people if they are difficult to work with, 1008 00:54:35.000 --> 00:54:40.760 but you can appreciate why they are invested because that's 1009 00:54:40.760 --> 00:54:42.760 where it is. They're invested. It's not just that I 1010 00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:44.440 don't feel like doing that. I want to play video 1011 00:54:44.440 --> 00:54:48.880 games on my bus. You know, they are genuinely asking you, well, 1012 00:54:48.880 --> 00:54:50.239 why would I do that? You know? 1013 00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:54.719 So, I mean I saw it all going to the 1014 00:54:54.719 --> 00:54:58.039 Class of Champions women's title matches, and all three of them, 1015 00:54:58.039 --> 00:55:00.559 including the taketoitle match, So it's kind of through your 1016 00:55:00.559 --> 00:55:04.159 thoughts on We'll start with Bailey and Charlotte. People. I'm 1017 00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:06.119 in anticipating the Bailey heel turn for a long time, 1018 00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:08.079 anticipating that it might be good for her, because she 1019 00:55:08.519 --> 00:55:10.960 was pretty cold from the beginning coming into the main roster, 1020 00:55:11.400 --> 00:55:14.119 missed opportunity and in a lot of ways, maybe some 1021 00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:15.760 of it's on her, most of it seems to be 1022 00:55:15.800 --> 00:55:19.400 on the way she was presented, and then this awkwardness 1023 00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:23.559 if she turns heel when she's pretty cold. But you know, 1024 00:55:24.239 --> 00:55:26.159 with a championship I think it means a little more. 1025 00:55:26.480 --> 00:55:30.199 And her first match is against Charlotte, who we have 1026 00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:34.360 been conditioned to not like respect, but she is full 1027 00:55:34.360 --> 00:55:38.280 of herself and a bully and arrogant and all that. 1028 00:55:39.119 --> 00:55:41.400 Not the best first opponent if you're trying to gain 1029 00:55:41.400 --> 00:55:44.519 momentum turning heel. So that's the I don't know why 1030 00:55:44.559 --> 00:55:48.360 that happened. Maybe it'll come maybe it'll become clear over 1031 00:55:48.440 --> 00:55:51.239 the next few days or few weeks. But so that's 1032 00:55:51.280 --> 00:55:53.000 my little setup for that. What do you think of 1033 00:55:53.039 --> 00:55:55.559 the Bailey turn and the Charlotte match? What do you 1034 00:55:55.559 --> 00:55:56.360 expect on Sunday? 1035 00:55:57.199 --> 00:56:00.880 Well? I never know what to expect because Vinc mcman 1036 00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:04.320 has the pencil. But what it comes down to is, 1037 00:56:04.519 --> 00:56:07.880 I don't I tend to agree that match seems to 1038 00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:14.239 be basically a little out of left field. I think 1039 00:56:14.280 --> 00:56:18.960 because Charlotte's kind of a it's kind of a strange beast, 1040 00:56:19.039 --> 00:56:22.039 at least meaning the way that they book her and 1041 00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:27.679 present her. Because I would think Bailey needs a strong win, 1042 00:56:28.519 --> 00:56:30.599 and when you put her in there with Charlotte, I 1043 00:56:30.679 --> 00:56:36.599 feel like Charlotte can lose and be okay. But I 1044 00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:43.920 could almost see them having Charlotte win and just, you know, 1045 00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:47.760 kind of stifle any momentum that they might have had 1046 00:56:47.840 --> 00:56:54.559 with Bailey going into this. I don't know. I would 1047 00:56:54.559 --> 00:56:58.920 prefer to see Bailey win, even if it is kind 1048 00:56:58.920 --> 00:57:04.079 of I'm not I prefer pinfalls and submissions, but this 1049 00:57:04.239 --> 00:57:08.280 is a situation where I would not be disappointed or 1050 00:57:08.360 --> 00:57:11.239 upset in any way if there was a kind of 1051 00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:16.360 a screwy DQ finish. You know, I'm not not the 1052 00:57:16.400 --> 00:57:21.119 biggest proponent of you know, Bailey intentionally gets herself DQ 1053 00:57:21.440 --> 00:57:23.599 type of thing to you know, lose the match, retain 1054 00:57:23.679 --> 00:57:27.280 the title. But I feel like it could work in 1055 00:57:27.320 --> 00:57:32.599 this situation because it's she's a new heel. You know, 1056 00:57:33.480 --> 00:57:38.920 we're still as a ww audience where kind of excited 1057 00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:42.039 that she's a heel now, you know, especially somebody like Bailey, 1058 00:57:42.119 --> 00:57:46.159 where we've it's just this weird bizarro world of like 1059 00:57:46.280 --> 00:57:50.840 watching WWTV where I'm like, this babyface keeps getting you know, 1060 00:57:51.199 --> 00:57:54.599 jerked around. Why doesn't they Why don't they just turn heel? 1061 00:57:54.920 --> 00:57:59.559 And it's like it's this, it's this backwards booking of 1062 00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:02.280 like I want them to turn heel so they are 1063 00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:05.480 standing up for themselves, right, No, that's what the babyfaces 1064 00:58:05.480 --> 00:58:07.559 should be doing in the first place. You know, It's 1065 00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:12.639 it's this, it's this bizarro land. So it's basically I 1066 00:58:12.679 --> 00:58:18.000 want to watch Bailey go nuts and just beat the 1067 00:58:18.039 --> 00:58:22.079 craft out of Charlotte the point where I know that 1068 00:58:22.360 --> 00:58:25.320 I'm not going to sympathize with Charlotte. I'm going to 1069 00:58:25.320 --> 00:58:28.639 be excited that Bailey is snapped. But I can see 1070 00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:33.239 in the you know, w w E vistminctmahan bubble of 1071 00:58:33.400 --> 00:58:36.320 that that's supposed to make me sympathize with Charlotte, and 1072 00:58:36.320 --> 00:58:39.599 it's supposed to make me think, well, Bailey's a loose 1073 00:58:39.639 --> 00:58:42.639 cannon and she can't be trusted and she's she's over 1074 00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:45.360 the line, out of control. Maybe there's a way to 1075 00:58:45.400 --> 00:58:47.079 pull that off, but I don't know. I just feel 1076 00:58:47.119 --> 00:58:51.679 like Bailey needs some I mean, basically, it's like it's 1077 00:58:51.760 --> 00:58:54.000 kind of the Jericho thing of like, Okay, if she's 1078 00:58:54.079 --> 00:58:57.760 not Bailey giving hugs anymore than who is she? She 1079 00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:00.239 needs to change her look, change her outfit, change the hair, 1080 00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:04.360 changed the whole thing. And if she doesn't understand who 1081 00:59:04.360 --> 00:59:06.840 she is, then me as a viewer, I'm not gonna 1082 00:59:06.880 --> 00:59:10.519 understand who she is. And is this thing already dead 1083 00:59:10.519 --> 00:59:12.800 in the water. I guess that remains to be seen. 1084 00:59:13.599 --> 00:59:16.360 Certainly Sunday will be a good test for it, because 1085 00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:20.000 if she is still just you know, side ponytail, you know, 1086 00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:27.079 but I'm you know, mean now, part of it doesn't compute. 1087 00:59:27.679 --> 00:59:30.519 Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm it's truly in the process to 1088 00:59:30.559 --> 00:59:33.920 tell for sure. I mean, I think she can co 1089 00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:37.119 opt is orb of a co opt the ponytail and 1090 00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:39.840 blow up balloons and stuff in sort of an ironic 1091 00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:46.960 way where she's the delusional or fraudulent, the fraudulently delusional Bailey, 1092 00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:49.639 where she thinks she's still a baby face explaining that 1093 00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:52.159 I am still the same person. I haven't changed. Why 1094 00:59:52.199 --> 00:59:54.239 aren't you booing me? I've got And then you can 1095 00:59:54.239 --> 00:59:56.920 sort of like maybe boo her in that context, as 1096 00:59:56.960 --> 00:59:59.679 opposed to her suddenly just coming out like Craig Gania 1097 00:59:59.679 --> 01:00:02.239 became Rambo when Sergeant Slaughter started training him, and Bailey 1098 01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:04.960 just has this huge transformation where people like, eh, I 1099 01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:06.519 don't know if that's her, but part of me was 1100 01:00:06.559 --> 01:00:08.519 looking forward to seeing a transformation and seeing what she 1101 01:00:08.559 --> 01:00:11.159 looked like when she did present herself with a completely 1102 01:00:11.159 --> 01:00:13.800 different attitude and edge. I think that would have more 1103 01:00:13.800 --> 01:00:17.079 impact if she just suddenly comes out with a completely 1104 01:00:17.079 --> 01:00:20.079 different look and people like, oh my god, that other 1105 01:00:20.119 --> 01:00:23.480 thing was just fraudulent marketing, and now we're seeing the 1106 01:00:23.480 --> 01:00:25.239 real her and I don't like this, and the kids 1107 01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:27.519 are booing her and like to me, that's a gift 1108 01:00:27.519 --> 01:00:30.559 to babyfaces fighting her more than the ironic maybe too 1109 01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:31.639 clever by half approach. 1110 01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:35.119 Yeah, I mean I do like that idea of her 1111 01:00:35.199 --> 01:00:39.039 still thinking she's a babyface, but she's you know, actually 1112 01:00:39.079 --> 01:00:42.559 a piece of craft. That's that's interesting. I think there's 1113 01:00:42.599 --> 01:00:44.559 also there could be something. I mean, it's almost like 1114 01:00:44.599 --> 01:00:47.039 the thing that they've been doing with bray Wyatt, but 1115 01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:51.199 kind of like a almost like a joint the clown 1116 01:00:51.280 --> 01:00:55.360 thing where it's like I'm acting like I'm happy and 1117 01:00:55.400 --> 01:00:59.480 I'm nice and I'm friendly, but I'm actually sadistic and evil. 1118 01:01:01.719 --> 01:01:01.960 You know. 1119 01:01:02.159 --> 01:01:04.880 There there could if they go in that direction, it 1120 01:01:04.880 --> 01:01:08.920 would be it would almost be because with bray Wyatt, 1121 01:01:08.960 --> 01:01:11.639 I'm expecting the shoe to drop. You know, at no 1122 01:01:11.679 --> 01:01:14.280 point did I buy the mister Rogers thing, right, But 1123 01:01:14.639 --> 01:01:17.800 if if say, like Bailey was to show up on 1124 01:01:17.840 --> 01:01:20.920 the Firefly fun House, that would kind of leave a 1125 01:01:20.960 --> 01:01:24.039 pit in my stomach, you know, like of like, oh god, 1126 01:01:24.320 --> 01:01:28.079 you know, like she's she's a demon now, you know, 1127 01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:31.079 whereas I don't know, I just it just feels like 1128 01:01:31.239 --> 01:01:37.280 she's she's a heel by association, but really she's still 1129 01:01:37.440 --> 01:01:42.599 just this babyface fighting from underneath things. It's I mean, 1130 01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:46.039 it's it's so funny. It's like there's room for subtle 1131 01:01:46.039 --> 01:01:48.800 piece and pro wrestling. But it's like with Vince McMahon booking, 1132 01:01:48.840 --> 01:01:51.679 it's like it's also it's still pro wrestling. There should 1133 01:01:51.719 --> 01:01:53.480 be a clear good guy and a clear bad guy, 1134 01:01:54.239 --> 01:01:55.000 you know, and. 1135 01:01:54.880 --> 01:01:58.719 It's there should be strong there should be strong feeling, 1136 01:01:58.880 --> 01:02:01.159 like I think if you can instructed. So some people 1137 01:02:01.159 --> 01:02:02.960 we had hung up on, well they're baby facing heels. 1138 01:02:02.960 --> 01:02:05.639 It's pass or it's too simple. It's like, what you're 1139 01:02:05.719 --> 01:02:08.360 going for in pro wrestling is strong emotional investment in 1140 01:02:08.360 --> 01:02:11.239 the characters. And then the second thing you're going for 1141 01:02:11.400 --> 01:02:13.159 is you want to have a home team and an 1142 01:02:13.159 --> 01:02:14.880 away team. You want to be rooting for the Packers 1143 01:02:14.960 --> 01:02:17.480 or against the Packers, for the Cowboys or against the Cowboys, 1144 01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:20.840 because that's where the emotion is. So therefore, call it 1145 01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:24.559 what you want. But as you present these characters, it's 1146 01:02:24.599 --> 01:02:26.320 hard to have sixty percent of the audience like some 1147 01:02:26.440 --> 01:02:30.360 in forty nine and have that also work for the opponent, 1148 01:02:30.920 --> 01:02:32.840 because now the opponent's in a POSI show. What if 1149 01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:34.360 they worked hard to get a hundred percent of people, 1150 01:02:34.360 --> 01:02:36.159 not to like them or one hundred percent of people 1151 01:02:36.320 --> 01:02:39.199 to like them, and now they're against an opponent where 1152 01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:41.639 he's peeling off or she's peeling off forty to sixty 1153 01:02:41.639 --> 01:02:44.599 percent of those fans for her character and everything's muddy. 1154 01:02:44.880 --> 01:02:48.320 So it because it doesn't work with nuance like it 1155 01:02:48.360 --> 01:02:51.679 does in Breaking Bad or you know, a heavily scripted 1156 01:02:52.360 --> 01:02:55.920 thirteen thirteen episode per season or eight episode per season 1157 01:02:56.039 --> 01:02:58.840 type thing where there's craftsmanship in years that go into it. 1158 01:02:59.119 --> 01:03:01.280 You kind of have to go with Babyface and Heel 1159 01:03:01.480 --> 01:03:04.079 and the goal should be one hundred percent years. Ninety 1160 01:03:04.119 --> 01:03:05.800 eight percent of the time it should bee hundred percent years. 1161 01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:07.480 Is a goal for one one hundred percent boost. 1162 01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:07.599 For the other. 1163 01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:09.480 That should be the goal, and if someone else is 1164 01:03:09.519 --> 01:03:17.320 trying to be nuanced, it blows up the whole system. 1165 01:03:17.440 --> 01:03:20.440 I'm Kelly Wells, host of the seven Star podcast, the 1166 01:03:20.519 --> 01:03:23.440 new Ongoing Torch show covering the world of New Japan 1167 01:03:23.559 --> 01:03:26.840 pro wrestling. We'll drop new episodes as major shows and 1168 01:03:26.920 --> 01:03:29.039 noteworthy events dictate. 1169 01:03:29.559 --> 01:03:32.199 And I'm Chris Lansdow join us as we covered the 1170 01:03:32.280 --> 01:03:35.239 ever changing landscape of New Japan as they navigate an 1171 01:03:35.239 --> 01:03:38.000 era with no lack of talent but a real need to. 1172 01:03:37.960 --> 01:03:39.079 Create some new styles. 1173 01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:41.960 You can stream the new seven Stop podcasts now from 1174 01:03:41.960 --> 01:03:42.920 Pro Wrestling Talk. 1175 01:03:54.000 --> 01:03:58.159 I mean, that's good deal, right. Because there's the difference 1176 01:03:58.159 --> 01:04:03.360 between pro wrestling and a scripted drama is because there 1177 01:04:03.360 --> 01:04:05.960 can be nuanced, there can be subtlety, there can be 1178 01:04:06.280 --> 01:04:11.639 you know, depth or or whatever in pro wrestling. But 1179 01:04:11.719 --> 01:04:16.000 it's like when it comes down to it with with 1180 01:04:16.079 --> 01:04:21.599 a scripted drama, is there's the endgame is murky, So 1181 01:04:21.679 --> 01:04:25.480 it's like there's some subtlety. Where is this going? Okay, 1182 01:04:25.480 --> 01:04:27.960 I'm interested, I'll I'll go on this ride with you, 1183 01:04:28.000 --> 01:04:31.679 on this journey. Whereas with pro wrestling, it's there's going 1184 01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:34.199 to be a winner and a loser, so there should 1185 01:04:34.280 --> 01:04:37.480 be a hero and a villain. You know. It's it's 1186 01:04:37.719 --> 01:04:42.199 much less of a you know, hour sixty minute drama 1187 01:04:43.199 --> 01:04:47.239 as it is a comic book. And with comic books 1188 01:04:47.320 --> 01:04:51.920 there are clearly gifted creators and writers and who can 1189 01:04:51.920 --> 01:04:58.039 tell a very nuanced, you know, multi layered story and 1190 01:04:58.079 --> 01:05:01.760 it can get into you, well, what is good, what 1191 01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:04.719 is evil? What is you know? All this, but at 1192 01:05:04.719 --> 01:05:06.840 the end of the day, it's you know the difference 1193 01:05:06.840 --> 01:05:09.760 between Watchmen and class of Champions is at the end 1194 01:05:09.800 --> 01:05:12.199 of Class of Champions, I'm going to see who the 1195 01:05:12.199 --> 01:05:13.920 winner is and who the loser is. And at the 1196 01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:16.679 end of Watchman, I'm left thinking, oh my gosh, what 1197 01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:19.239 is right? What is wrong? Who watches the Watchman? 1198 01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:19.559 You know? 1199 01:05:19.760 --> 01:05:23.239 Where, Like if it's AJ and Cedric, I'm like, all right, 1200 01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:25.360 well I like Cedric, I don't like AJ. I want 1201 01:05:25.400 --> 01:05:28.360 Cedric to win. You know, pro wrestling doesn't need to 1202 01:05:28.400 --> 01:05:31.440 be complicated. It can be nuanced. But once we start 1203 01:05:31.480 --> 01:05:34.039 complicating it, once we have you know, a guy that 1204 01:05:34.159 --> 01:05:37.239 looks like Eric Rowan and where's Daniel Bryan and who 1205 01:05:37.320 --> 01:05:41.920 is you know, it's just like you've lost. 1206 01:05:41.679 --> 01:05:45.679 The plot or just competing. Like I just don't think 1207 01:05:45.719 --> 01:05:48.239 the goal should be that fans are torn, you know, 1208 01:05:48.360 --> 01:05:50.639 Like I mean again, there's a there's a one out 1209 01:05:50.639 --> 01:05:52.199 of fifty exception. I mean, you know, like I'm not 1210 01:05:52.239 --> 01:05:54.119 saying it's a hard fatter one hundre percent of the time, 1211 01:05:54.800 --> 01:05:57.000 but like ninety eight percent of the time. You want 1212 01:05:57.039 --> 01:05:59.119 one hundred percent of the fans. You hope one hundred 1213 01:05:59.119 --> 01:06:00.519 percent of the fans are rooting for a guy one 1214 01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:04.360 percent against him? Yeah, because I can yeah, yeah. 1215 01:06:04.559 --> 01:06:06.840 Right, Like I don't. I don't have to hate Jumbo 1216 01:06:06.920 --> 01:06:11.599 Seruta to be rooting for Mitsuhara Massawa. You know, I'm 1217 01:06:11.679 --> 01:06:14.239 just I'm excited, and I can be excited that Massawa 1218 01:06:14.800 --> 01:06:17.599 just beat Jumbo, but like it doesn't make me. I 1219 01:06:17.599 --> 01:06:20.800 don't have to hate Jumbo to like Massawa, you know. 1220 01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:22.480 I mean it's like that's the reason that the g 1221 01:06:22.599 --> 01:06:28.119 One Climax Tournament works because I'm watching the top tier 1222 01:06:28.199 --> 01:06:32.119 competitors competing against each other, so I do get to say, 1223 01:06:32.159 --> 01:06:34.719 all right, well, well who would win? Who is going 1224 01:06:34.760 --> 01:06:37.960 to be? You know, even like Pogan and Andre, It's like, yeah, 1225 01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:43.159 but the Andre turned it worked on on one hand, 1226 01:06:43.360 --> 01:06:47.360 it was almost forced too, because it's like I want 1227 01:06:47.360 --> 01:06:51.320 to have an emotional investment. Sure, Andre getting paired up 1228 01:06:51.320 --> 01:06:54.320 with Bobby Heenan, that's the worst thing he could have done, 1229 01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:57.039 you know, you know, it's it's it's it's the But 1230 01:06:57.119 --> 01:07:01.679 I mean, ultimately it came down to Andre was challenged 1231 01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:04.400 for the belt. You know, it was clear that that 1232 01:07:04.519 --> 01:07:07.159 Bobby had gotten into his head. You know, it was 1233 01:07:07.199 --> 01:07:10.880 it was clear that Andrea had changed. Andre wasn't Andre anymore? 1234 01:07:11.559 --> 01:07:13.519 Do we want to even go further down the rabbit 1235 01:07:13.559 --> 01:07:16.559 hole of like, well, how did Bobby get to Andre? 1236 01:07:16.679 --> 01:07:20.079 The previous storyline was that Bobby was trying to get 1237 01:07:20.119 --> 01:07:23.280 Andre banned for life, and then Andre shows up underneath 1238 01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:26.400 the mask and he's the giant machine. Did somewhere along 1239 01:07:26.400 --> 01:07:28.719 the way did Bobby finally get the goods on Andre? 1240 01:07:28.840 --> 01:07:31.920 But instead of sending Andre out the pasture and banning 1241 01:07:31.960 --> 01:07:35.119 him for life from WWF, he starts talking with Andre 1242 01:07:35.239 --> 01:07:37.159 and working with Andre, and then he sees I can 1243 01:07:37.239 --> 01:07:40.599 exploit Andre and like, this is my finally, my chance 1244 01:07:40.639 --> 01:07:43.239 to get my hands on a competitor who can win 1245 01:07:43.280 --> 01:07:45.559 that championship. Clearly this is the guy that can beat 1246 01:07:45.599 --> 01:07:48.079 hul Kogan and then we're off and running into the 1247 01:07:48.159 --> 01:07:51.760 WrestleMania three. I mean, there's nuance, there's subtlety, there's depth 1248 01:07:51.840 --> 01:07:55.800 to it, But when it comes down to it, that's 1249 01:07:55.840 --> 01:08:00.559 if I really want to be a hardcore Like I 1250 01:08:00.599 --> 01:08:04.000 am so invested wrestling fan, and I'm following this storyline 1251 01:08:04.039 --> 01:08:06.639 every single week, every single thing, back and forth. He 1252 01:08:06.719 --> 01:08:09.280 rips off the shirt, he rips off the crucifix, Hogan's 1253 01:08:09.320 --> 01:08:12.159 chest is bleeding like blah blah blah blah blah. But 1254 01:08:12.559 --> 01:08:15.599 if I'm just you know, Joe Schmoe on the street, 1255 01:08:15.599 --> 01:08:19.319 who doesn't know anything from Adam. If you're just presented 1256 01:08:19.359 --> 01:08:22.720 with we got Hulk Hogan fighting Andrea the Giants, it's like, well, 1257 01:08:22.960 --> 01:08:26.239 who would win that fight? You know? The immovable object 1258 01:08:26.279 --> 01:08:29.640 in the irresistible force. That's enough in and of itself. 1259 01:08:29.760 --> 01:08:31.960 If we want to add color to it and add 1260 01:08:31.960 --> 01:08:35.359 a story to it, then that's that's even better, you know. 1261 01:08:35.600 --> 01:08:40.159 But it's it's just give me something to watch, give 1262 01:08:40.239 --> 01:08:44.720 the promoter something to promote. That's that's enough in and 1263 01:08:44.760 --> 01:08:48.600 of itself. The young guy versus the established guy, all right, 1264 01:08:48.640 --> 01:08:51.239 now I'm interested. You know, the tough guy versus the 1265 01:08:51.279 --> 01:08:54.479 even tougher guy. Well, who would win that fight? You know, 1266 01:08:54.560 --> 01:08:58.159 It's just it doesn't need to be more than that. 1267 01:08:58.239 --> 01:09:00.720 It doesn't need to be you know. Well, then then 1268 01:09:00.760 --> 01:09:02.600 they drove them out to the desert, desert, and they 1269 01:09:02.600 --> 01:09:04.960 buried them alive. It's just like, well, now now you've 1270 01:09:05.000 --> 01:09:07.760 lost me. Now I'm now I'm confused. At no point 1271 01:09:08.399 --> 01:09:13.399 should a wrestling fan be confused. You know, it's it's 1272 01:09:13.439 --> 01:09:17.319 it's good versus evil. It's and even beyond good versus evil, 1273 01:09:17.359 --> 01:09:20.479 it's right versus wrong. Yeah, it's the pursuit of it's 1274 01:09:20.479 --> 01:09:24.000 the pursuit of justice. That's why it's so confusing, like 1275 01:09:24.079 --> 01:09:26.279 watching w W E t V because I'm like, well, 1276 01:09:26.279 --> 01:09:29.199 where where is the justice? What? What? What am I? 1277 01:09:29.279 --> 01:09:31.319 What am I rooting for? And then you get into 1278 01:09:31.319 --> 01:09:33.279 a place where it's like, well, if nothing matters, then 1279 01:09:33.319 --> 01:09:36.079 it's absolute chaos. And then I'm just gonna cheer the 1280 01:09:36.119 --> 01:09:37.680 people you tell me to boo, and I'm gonna boo 1281 01:09:37.680 --> 01:09:40.119 the people you tell me to share because it's it 1282 01:09:40.560 --> 01:09:45.000 has It's like it's they have forced their audience. WWE 1283 01:09:45.119 --> 01:09:48.920 and Vince mcgham have forced their audience into being heath 1284 01:09:49.039 --> 01:09:51.000 Ledgers of the Joker. And now I'm just going to 1285 01:09:51.039 --> 01:09:52.760 show up because I want to watch the world burn. 1286 01:09:53.720 --> 01:09:56.560 Now I'm just you know, it's it's that's that is 1287 01:09:56.600 --> 01:09:59.600 a strange place to be in as a wrestling fan, 1288 01:09:59.760 --> 01:10:04.239 where it could not be easier to get a wrestling 1289 01:10:04.239 --> 01:10:06.760 fan excited. Give me something that I want to see, 1290 01:10:07.239 --> 01:10:09.159 you know, as opposed to well, I'm going to show 1291 01:10:09.239 --> 01:10:12.520 up and can I sneak this beach ball in? You 1292 01:10:12.560 --> 01:10:15.079 know how much chaos can I cause as a wrestling fit? 1293 01:10:15.159 --> 01:10:18.239 Can I chant something? You know that's going to distract. 1294 01:10:18.279 --> 01:10:23.760 I mean, it's just it's I'm just excited for a 1295 01:10:23.960 --> 01:10:28.640 ew because I need a mainstream alternative here in the 1296 01:10:28.720 --> 01:10:32.640 United States. You know, it's nice when New Japan shows 1297 01:10:32.720 --> 01:10:35.359 up into into town and I get to go to 1298 01:10:35.399 --> 01:10:38.000 PWG like once a month or every couple of months. 1299 01:10:38.039 --> 01:10:40.600 But man, oh man, oh man. As far as a 1300 01:10:40.640 --> 01:10:42.840 TV product, I mean, it's like I don't even know 1301 01:10:42.880 --> 01:10:45.199 what channel Impact is on anymore. I mean, I guess 1302 01:10:45.199 --> 01:10:48.720 now what they're on Access Now, we'll see, we'll see. 1303 01:10:48.720 --> 01:10:53.159 But I mean the first instagram like picture I saw 1304 01:10:53.239 --> 01:10:57.199 of the full Impact roster and it says coming to 1305 01:10:57.279 --> 01:11:00.600 Access TV, And when I zoom in, honestly, my first 1306 01:11:00.600 --> 01:11:03.960 thought was, oh, my gosh, it is the greatest collection 1307 01:11:04.119 --> 01:11:08.159 of wasted talent on Impact TV. Because it's just it's 1308 01:11:08.359 --> 01:11:13.760 like so many fantastic people, both on camera and behind 1309 01:11:13.760 --> 01:11:17.439 the scenes, and it is just they I don't know 1310 01:11:17.479 --> 01:11:20.760 if they'll ever be able to overcome that TNA stink 1311 01:11:21.439 --> 01:11:25.560 that had been collected over the last decade more, you know. 1312 01:11:25.960 --> 01:11:29.319 I mean, it's just it's it's it breaks my heart 1313 01:11:29.920 --> 01:11:34.880 to see it, Like I need a clean slate. Aw 1314 01:11:34.960 --> 01:11:38.800 feels like a clean slate you know, we'll see, we'll see. 1315 01:11:38.800 --> 01:11:42.079 I'm just excited for more wrestling, and hopefully it's fantastic 1316 01:11:42.119 --> 01:11:44.159 because everything else I've seen up until this point has 1317 01:11:44.199 --> 01:11:45.199 been Yeah. 1318 01:11:45.279 --> 01:11:51.720 Absolutely no, so beax. Any thoughts on that match, Sasha's return, 1319 01:11:52.479 --> 01:11:57.079 and how they've been promoting and presenting Becky, Yeah, well, I. 1320 01:11:57.000 --> 01:12:00.239 Mean it'll be an interesting match, but I mean it is. 1321 01:12:00.279 --> 01:12:05.000 It's like, gosh, Becky Lynch was again like talk about 1322 01:12:05.800 --> 01:12:07.680 you know, somebody that they were trying to be a 1323 01:12:07.760 --> 01:12:11.159 heel and then winds up becoming the most over babyface 1324 01:12:11.279 --> 01:12:15.520 of the last few years, and then well it's now 1325 01:12:15.600 --> 01:12:18.319 Vince McMahon. You hit him like, here's a hot baby 1326 01:12:18.319 --> 01:12:21.600 face there, and it's like, oh God, the last thing 1327 01:12:21.640 --> 01:12:23.279 you want is a hot baby face. We got to 1328 01:12:23.399 --> 01:12:27.880 cool her off. They gotta pair up with Lacey Evans. Yeah, 1329 01:12:28.239 --> 01:12:31.560 now we're gonna I mean, it's just it, Becky was 1330 01:12:31.600 --> 01:12:35.960 so hot going into Mania, and then coming out of Mania, 1331 01:12:36.119 --> 01:12:40.279 you get that program with Lacey and it's like, I 1332 01:12:40.279 --> 01:12:42.960 don't know if this is the right pairing, and then 1333 01:12:44.399 --> 01:12:48.079 of course it's just it's just perfect Vince McMahon logic. 1334 01:12:48.199 --> 01:12:50.319 Of course, the next thing they pair up Becky with 1335 01:12:50.520 --> 01:12:55.279 is are returning Sasha Banks? Who all right, let's turn 1336 01:12:55.319 --> 01:12:58.600 her heel. I love Vince's idea that you can have anybody, 1337 01:12:58.760 --> 01:13:02.079 anybody off of team for the amount of time that 1338 01:13:02.119 --> 01:13:05.079 Sasha Banks was off and think, oh, I can just 1339 01:13:05.159 --> 01:13:07.359 make her a heel It's like no, They're gonna cheer 1340 01:13:07.359 --> 01:13:09.479 her no matter what she does. And we are at 1341 01:13:09.479 --> 01:13:11.279 a day and age, and then to pair up with 1342 01:13:11.319 --> 01:13:15.239 Becky Lynch of all people, I'll have her turn heel on. Becky, 1343 01:13:15.359 --> 01:13:19.800 It's like you are hurting, Becky, you already have like 1344 01:13:20.239 --> 01:13:25.000 it's anybody else have a be God, what what is 1345 01:13:25.039 --> 01:13:26.760 it gonna take for me to get a Bailey versus 1346 01:13:26.840 --> 01:13:30.640 Sasha match? You know, what what is it gonna take 1347 01:13:30.640 --> 01:13:32.880 for me to get that program? You know, if it 1348 01:13:32.920 --> 01:13:36.279 was Bailey versus Sasha right now, that would be hot. 1349 01:13:36.479 --> 01:13:40.880 And then like Bailey attacking or returning Sasha, that might 1350 01:13:40.960 --> 01:13:44.600 actually be an effective heel turn, you know, or or 1351 01:13:44.720 --> 01:13:47.279 Sasha comes back and beats up Becky. I mean that 1352 01:13:47.399 --> 01:13:49.840 might even be an effective heel turn, because like I'm 1353 01:13:49.840 --> 01:13:53.760 gonna cheer Sasha because she's back, but she shows back 1354 01:13:53.840 --> 01:13:55.720 up and then she's finally beating up her friend. I 1355 01:13:55.720 --> 01:13:58.439 don't know. It's just like if they just I mean, 1356 01:13:59.119 --> 01:14:01.279 do I feel like I seen Becky versus Charlotte a 1357 01:14:01.319 --> 01:14:05.640 million times already? Yeah? Could Becky be paired up with 1358 01:14:06.079 --> 01:14:08.880 I don't know whoever? Anyone else on the ride? I mean, 1359 01:14:10.079 --> 01:14:12.880 I don't know elect the Bliss. I know she's in that. 1360 01:14:13.319 --> 01:14:16.640 You know the tag with Nikki Cross And I called 1361 01:14:16.680 --> 01:14:17.920 it as soon as it started out. 1362 01:14:18.479 --> 01:14:20.880 I've reced it. I've given you credit for calling that 1363 01:14:20.920 --> 01:14:23.000 one on podcasts since then. 1364 01:14:24.079 --> 01:14:26.319 I mean, I saw it coming a million miles away. 1365 01:14:26.319 --> 01:14:30.159 I'm like, you guys don't know. Vince McMahon, it's he's 1366 01:14:30.199 --> 01:14:31.960 gonna say we got to take him for a ride, 1367 01:14:32.000 --> 01:14:33.840 and then he's gonna forget about it. He's gonna be like, no, 1368 01:14:33.880 --> 01:14:35.800 they're actually best friends. What are you talking about that 1369 01:14:36.039 --> 01:14:40.199 they're go shopping together? What do women do? They talk 1370 01:14:40.239 --> 01:14:45.239 on the phone, they do each other's nails. I don't know. 1371 01:14:45.560 --> 01:14:48.600 And with with Becky and Becky and Sasha in and 1372 01:14:48.600 --> 01:14:50.479 of itself from Bell to Bell, it's gonna be a 1373 01:14:50.479 --> 01:14:53.119 great match as far as the logic and the storytelling 1374 01:14:53.279 --> 01:14:55.319 going into it and coming out of it, I feel 1375 01:14:55.319 --> 01:14:57.840 like they could be doing a better job with Becky 1376 01:14:57.880 --> 01:15:00.319 if they just let Becky be stone cold and looked 1377 01:15:00.359 --> 01:15:03.439 at it that way. And I don't know, it's it's 1378 01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:06.359 it's too soon. It just feels like it's too soon 1379 01:15:06.479 --> 01:15:10.600 for for Sasha and Becky. It's it's because it's like Sasha, 1380 01:15:10.760 --> 01:15:14.560 for lack of a better comparison, is she kind of 1381 01:15:14.600 --> 01:15:18.039 like the you know, the rock. If Becky's gonna be 1382 01:15:18.239 --> 01:15:20.880 stone cold, we could have Sasha be the rock because 1383 01:15:20.880 --> 01:15:22.720 she's you know, she can run her mouth, she can 1384 01:15:22.800 --> 01:15:25.680 work in the ring. And then you know, it almost feels, 1385 01:15:25.960 --> 01:15:27.840 I don't know, it just feels like this could be 1386 01:15:28.640 --> 01:15:31.960 next year's Mania, you know, Becky and Sasha. Instead, we've 1387 01:15:32.000 --> 01:15:34.119 just kind of thrown it together and it's and it's 1388 01:15:34.159 --> 01:15:37.399 just kind of sitting there on Clasha Champions. I don't know, 1389 01:15:37.439 --> 01:15:40.840 It's just Vince is so fixated on doing everything at 1390 01:15:40.880 --> 01:15:46.439 once that once we rush towards something, it feels flat, 1391 01:15:46.600 --> 01:15:52.439 and once we draw something out, it gets so convoluted 1392 01:15:53.039 --> 01:15:55.560 that once we get there, it feels flat. Like when 1393 01:15:55.560 --> 01:15:58.439 we finally do get to if we are even say 1394 01:15:58.479 --> 01:16:00.640 we finally do get to Roman reigns us Is Daniel 1395 01:16:00.640 --> 01:16:03.239 Bryan and by the time we get there, am I 1396 01:16:03.279 --> 01:16:07.359 gonna care anymore? You know? It doesn't need to be complicated, 1397 01:16:07.439 --> 01:16:10.560 and I feel like the old man over complicates, but 1398 01:16:10.680 --> 01:16:15.439 constantly I I am gonna. I'm gonna watch the match 1399 01:16:15.640 --> 01:16:17.199 and probably enjoy it very much. 1400 01:16:18.159 --> 01:16:21.359 I'm I'm hoping somebody does a show where there's a 1401 01:16:21.399 --> 01:16:24.319 match and then there's an announcing interviews the wrestler and 1402 01:16:24.359 --> 01:16:27.039 the wrestler spent all day alone with friends, with some 1403 01:16:27.159 --> 01:16:29.760 help from veterans coming up with some stuff to say, 1404 01:16:30.640 --> 01:16:32.119 and then they talk about it to try to help 1405 01:16:32.159 --> 01:16:34.279 sell their character and sell their match, and then we 1406 01:16:34.319 --> 01:16:36.640 move on to the next like it's just you know, 1407 01:16:36.840 --> 01:16:38.720 Jared Jarrett used to tell me, I write I write 1408 01:16:38.760 --> 01:16:40.079 the Memphis TV Show on the back of a three 1409 01:16:40.119 --> 01:16:41.239 and a half by five no card in the back 1410 01:16:41.239 --> 01:16:42.680 of the limousine on the way to the on the 1411 01:16:42.680 --> 01:16:47.000 way to the TV studio. Because a wrestling show, the 1412 01:16:47.039 --> 01:16:49.000 beauty of a wrestling show isn't in the in how 1413 01:16:49.079 --> 01:16:52.600 much you plan ahead. It's seeing an outline come to life. 1414 01:16:53.039 --> 01:16:56.399 And that has been taken away from wrestlers and many 1415 01:16:56.920 --> 01:16:59.319 you know, Kevin Owens tweeted out three numbers that match 1416 01:16:59.399 --> 01:17:01.479 up an X in terms of the number, the letter 1417 01:17:01.520 --> 01:17:03.720 number in the alphabet. I don't know if he was 1418 01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:06.520 if that was a hope a wish, like, oh my god, 1419 01:17:06.560 --> 01:17:08.039 this is awful, and I just want to get over 1420 01:17:08.039 --> 01:17:09.880 to NXT where my character would be taken care of 1421 01:17:10.319 --> 01:17:12.640 or it was meant to be, you know, foreshadowing what 1422 01:17:12.760 --> 01:17:15.399 is already planned. But I mean, there's wrestlers who just 1423 01:17:15.439 --> 01:17:18.079 want to go work for work in NXT and make 1424 01:17:18.119 --> 01:17:21.920 a living and be happy because things had, like you said, 1425 01:17:21.920 --> 01:17:25.960 become just too complicated and arbitrary. You know, Alexa Bliss, 1426 01:17:26.680 --> 01:17:29.439 is she a face or a heel? Wasn't when she, like, 1427 01:17:30.600 --> 01:17:32.279 not that long ago, she'd have been the one making 1428 01:17:32.279 --> 01:17:34.560 fun of Nicky Cross's looks and talking about beautiful She isn't. 1429 01:17:34.600 --> 01:17:38.119 Now she's the one teaming with her and defending her 1430 01:17:38.239 --> 01:17:43.279 against Mandy Rose, who's insulting Niki Cross's looks. And it's 1431 01:17:43.319 --> 01:17:46.600 like Vince doesn't remember or think that these wrestlers have 1432 01:17:46.720 --> 01:17:51.319 this trail of actions and traits that should logically lead 1433 01:17:51.359 --> 01:17:59.000 to what they do this weekend. Next week. You don't 1434 01:17:59.000 --> 01:18:00.920 have to wait for the way Keller Pro Wrestling post 1435 01:18:00.920 --> 01:18:02.840 show to find out what I thought of Monday night 1436 01:18:02.920 --> 01:18:05.000 Raw and SmackDown. Each week. You can check out my 1437 01:18:05.119 --> 01:18:08.720 reports that are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown at 1438 01:18:08.760 --> 01:18:12.279 pwtorch dot com. My written report will tell you what's 1439 01:18:12.319 --> 01:18:14.640 happening in detail in case you missed the show, and 1440 01:18:14.720 --> 01:18:17.640 it will also analyze key segments and give my random 1441 01:18:17.680 --> 01:18:21.279 thoughts quips on what I'm watching as it airs. So 1442 01:18:21.359 --> 01:18:23.600 check it out every Monday night and Tuesday night at 1443 01:18:23.640 --> 01:18:28.680 pwtorch dot com. That also applies to wwepayperviews. I cover 1444 01:18:28.720 --> 01:18:31.239 those live at pw torch dot com with a detailed 1445 01:18:31.279 --> 01:18:33.720 written report with star ratings. And of course you can 1446 01:18:33.760 --> 01:18:36.640 find other TV reports from other contributors to PW torch 1447 01:18:36.720 --> 01:18:40.399 such as nxt ROH, Impact Wrestling and more. Check it 1448 01:18:40.439 --> 01:18:43.960 out pwtorch dot com your first stop for TV and 1449 01:18:44.079 --> 01:18:54.840 pay per view written reports. 1450 01:18:55.399 --> 01:18:59.359 Oh yeah, oh my god. I mean, it's like the 1451 01:18:59.439 --> 01:19:03.199 reason that The Simpsons has been on since I was 1452 01:19:03.399 --> 01:19:09.239 a boy is because those are clearly defined characters. And 1453 01:19:09.680 --> 01:19:12.359 I mean, has that show run out of steam? I 1454 01:19:12.399 --> 01:19:15.279 mean it's tough for me to say, because I stopped 1455 01:19:15.279 --> 01:19:18.000 watching it, so it ran out of steam for me, 1456 01:19:18.720 --> 01:19:22.840 you know, But it was how many different situations can 1457 01:19:22.880 --> 01:19:27.359 you come up with for them? I mean, but my 1458 01:19:27.479 --> 01:19:32.399 point is there are things that it would make sense 1459 01:19:32.399 --> 01:19:35.840 for Bart Simpson and Homer Simpson to do, and then 1460 01:19:35.880 --> 01:19:39.359 there are things that it makes sense for Lisa Simpson 1461 01:19:39.359 --> 01:19:42.840 and Marge Simpson to do. And for me as a fan, 1462 01:19:44.239 --> 01:19:49.000 what when I started losing interest in the Simpsons was 1463 01:19:49.079 --> 01:19:52.079 when and I can pinpoint it too. There there was 1464 01:19:52.119 --> 01:19:57.119 an episode where Marge of all the characters too, where 1465 01:19:57.199 --> 01:19:59.920 Marge didn't feel like she was acting like Marge anymore. 1466 01:20:00.680 --> 01:20:03.920 And then I was like, or even right before that, 1467 01:20:03.960 --> 01:20:08.319 when they did the whole thing with Principal Skinner, right 1468 01:20:09.000 --> 01:20:12.600 and they did a whole episode about how it turned 1469 01:20:12.600 --> 01:20:16.039 out that Principal Skinner wasn't actually Principal Skinner, that he 1470 01:20:16.159 --> 01:20:19.760 was this other guy who stole Skinner's identity back in Vietnam, 1471 01:20:20.439 --> 01:20:23.880 and then they tell this whole convoluted story for no 1472 01:20:24.039 --> 01:20:26.720 reason other than we just got to fill up thirty minutes. 1473 01:20:27.000 --> 01:20:29.439 And then by the end of that episode they had 1474 01:20:29.479 --> 01:20:36.680 taken one of the most beloved characters with a clearly 1475 01:20:36.720 --> 01:20:42.760 defined parameter and then they just put a hat on it, 1476 01:20:42.880 --> 01:20:45.039 and then put a hat on the hat, and then 1477 01:20:45.079 --> 01:20:46.720 by the end of it. I was like, you know what, 1478 01:20:47.000 --> 01:20:53.119 this is actually undone so much storyline leading up to 1479 01:20:53.199 --> 01:20:56.279 it and now coming out of it, Why am I 1480 01:20:56.359 --> 01:20:59.880 going to have an investment as a viewer in anything 1481 01:21:00.039 --> 01:21:05.479 involving basically anyone. It's just it becomes a parody of itself. 1482 01:21:05.520 --> 01:21:07.159 And then all of a sudden, it's like I found 1483 01:21:07.159 --> 01:21:09.720 myself flipping around the channels because I'm like, well, what 1484 01:21:09.720 --> 01:21:12.439 what what am I? What am I watching for? Why 1485 01:21:12.479 --> 01:21:14.159 am I supposed to? If you don't care? Why do 1486 01:21:14.279 --> 01:21:19.439 I care? Yeah? It's I mean, it's it's it's it's 1487 01:21:19.479 --> 01:21:23.800 the most it's the easiest principle to remember in entertainment. 1488 01:21:24.399 --> 01:21:27.279 You know, if if you're having if you're not having 1489 01:21:27.279 --> 01:21:29.319 a good time, why am I going to have a 1490 01:21:29.319 --> 01:21:31.640 good time? You know, if you don't care, I don't care. 1491 01:21:32.319 --> 01:21:36.000 You know, I'll find somebody that does. It's it's it's 1492 01:21:36.039 --> 01:21:40.880 like a less the Bliss that is a simple, sharp character, 1493 01:21:41.800 --> 01:21:44.880 and it's so she's a mean girl. You know, she's 1494 01:21:44.920 --> 01:21:48.239 a mean girl, and she's a coward and she's a manipulator. 1495 01:21:48.880 --> 01:21:50.680 And now all of a sudden she's best friends with 1496 01:21:50.800 --> 01:21:53.479 Nikki Cross and I have no idea why, you know, 1497 01:21:54.680 --> 01:21:56.399 and now there's now a chimps. 1498 01:21:59.279 --> 01:22:03.159 It's it's disappointing. It's disappointing, That's what it is. I mean, like, 1499 01:22:03.159 --> 01:22:05.399 it's disappointing. As a viewer. You want, you want, That's 1500 01:22:05.439 --> 01:22:07.079 what I tell people like, I don't I don't want 1501 01:22:07.119 --> 01:22:08.560 to be a hater. I don't want to be critical. 1502 01:22:08.600 --> 01:22:12.560 It's like, you, you deserve to be to hold this 1503 01:22:12.680 --> 01:22:14.800 form of entertainment that you love, and a billion dollar 1504 01:22:14.840 --> 01:22:16.800 company that should be able to do a better job 1505 01:22:16.800 --> 01:22:19.920 than it's doing you. You you deserve to be able 1506 01:22:19.960 --> 01:22:22.840 to vent. You deserve to be able to you. It's 1507 01:22:22.880 --> 01:22:25.520 okay to expect a higher standard. You shouldn't apologize and 1508 01:22:25.560 --> 01:22:29.600 be a loyalist, a blind loyalist to your WWE tribe 1509 01:22:29.840 --> 01:22:32.760 that you feel you belong to. You you actually deserve better, 1510 01:22:33.119 --> 01:22:35.279 and it's okay to express that without feeling like you're 1511 01:22:35.279 --> 01:22:35.840 being disloyal. 1512 01:22:36.359 --> 01:22:40.119 Well, I'll tell you this, man. I mean, the most 1513 01:22:40.159 --> 01:22:43.680 common question I would get after I was done working 1514 01:22:43.680 --> 01:22:49.319 at WWE wash do you still enjoy watching the product? 1515 01:22:49.720 --> 01:22:51.600 And I would I would always say the same thing. 1516 01:22:51.600 --> 01:22:54.199 I'm like, oh, I enjoy it more now because now 1517 01:22:54.239 --> 01:22:58.199 everything makes sense, because now I've seen how it goes. 1518 01:22:58.399 --> 01:23:01.319 Like I've been in the kitchen, So now that the 1519 01:23:01.359 --> 01:23:04.000 Hamburgers makes sense to me, I'm like, oh god, you know, 1520 01:23:04.119 --> 01:23:08.880 it's like you go to itcause every storyline that got dropped, 1521 01:23:08.920 --> 01:23:11.279 every joke that didn't work, every guy that stops getting 1522 01:23:11.279 --> 01:23:14.920 a push, everything that like why why did that happen? 1523 01:23:15.119 --> 01:23:17.239 Like what what? What? What was that supposed to be? 1524 01:23:17.439 --> 01:23:21.159 It all makes sense. Now I have a more complete picture, 1525 01:23:22.119 --> 01:23:25.000 and I can appreciate the product even more now, you know, 1526 01:23:25.359 --> 01:23:27.640 and and and and I can find entertainment in it, 1527 01:23:28.439 --> 01:23:33.039 you know, beyond uh, simply just seeing what's on the screen, 1528 01:23:33.239 --> 01:23:35.039 you know, being able to see behind the curtain. I 1529 01:23:35.079 --> 01:23:39.039 was like, oh, now I've got the whole story, you know. 1530 01:23:39.520 --> 01:23:42.720 Yeah, Well, what do you think about making fun of 1531 01:23:42.760 --> 01:23:46.199 Nicky Cross Mandy rosa heel making fun of Nicky Cross's 1532 01:23:46.520 --> 01:23:49.920 looks from a from a mean girl standpoint, like alection 1533 01:23:49.920 --> 01:23:52.159 of Bliss's man? Is that is that? Does is it okay? 1534 01:23:52.199 --> 01:23:54.000 Is that within the bounds of wrestling? Is it? Is 1535 01:23:54.039 --> 01:23:56.399 it okay? Within the bounds of some wrestling but not WWE? 1536 01:23:56.520 --> 01:23:59.039 That's also doing Connor's cure spots and and is on 1537 01:23:59.119 --> 01:24:02.800 Fox Prodcasts work and be a hero. You know, you 1538 01:24:02.800 --> 01:24:04.520 can be a superstar and they're running all these camping 1539 01:24:04.600 --> 01:24:07.640 does it fit the mode? Is? It may be okay, 1540 01:24:07.640 --> 01:24:09.880 but not the best thing to do. Like, where are 1541 01:24:09.920 --> 01:24:12.239 you on that? I mean, I know I have a 1542 01:24:12.279 --> 01:24:15.279 feeling there was some a level of apology and self 1543 01:24:15.399 --> 01:24:19.159 self awareness behind the scenes amongst the women that maybe 1544 01:24:19.159 --> 01:24:21.279 this is going to look make. You know, I can 1545 01:24:21.359 --> 01:24:23.279 imagine Mandy Rose having to do this and wondering what 1546 01:24:23.279 --> 01:24:24.920 people are gonna think of her, you know what I mean. 1547 01:24:24.960 --> 01:24:27.159 Even though people know it's scripted and all that, there's 1548 01:24:27.199 --> 01:24:31.039 still that weird thing where wrestlers feel like people think 1549 01:24:31.079 --> 01:24:32.840 they are their character on air some of the time. 1550 01:24:32.880 --> 01:24:34.319 I don't know, So, yeah, your thoughts on it? 1551 01:24:34.960 --> 01:24:39.159 Yeah, I mean it's just kind of what's the word 1552 01:24:39.159 --> 01:24:43.079 I'm looking for. It's just it just feels a little 1553 01:24:43.079 --> 01:24:49.920 played out. But there's a way to do that without 1554 01:24:49.960 --> 01:24:54.600 doing it, you know, like like like with like like 1555 01:24:54.720 --> 01:24:58.359 Rick Flair and Ricky Steamboat. You know, like the first 1556 01:24:59.399 --> 01:25:04.279 few that they had where then what was the circumstances 1557 01:25:04.279 --> 01:25:07.880 where Rick Flair got like a suit torn up? It 1558 01:25:07.920 --> 01:25:13.279 was essentially you know, at its heart, that storyline is 1559 01:25:13.399 --> 01:25:17.359 I'm good looking and you're not without saying I'm good 1560 01:25:17.359 --> 01:25:20.680 looking and you're not, you know, whereas it can be 1561 01:25:20.760 --> 01:25:23.880 about I'm more sophisticated, I'm better dressed, I know how 1562 01:25:23.880 --> 01:25:26.319 to do my hair, you know, instead of just being like, 1563 01:25:26.640 --> 01:25:31.560 you know, I'm pretty or ugly. You know, that's talk 1564 01:25:31.560 --> 01:25:33.800 about it. It's like talk about a place where all right, 1565 01:25:33.920 --> 01:25:36.760 maybe now we could use some nuance, Maybe now we 1566 01:25:36.800 --> 01:25:41.079 can use some you know, sophistication in the storytelling. But 1567 01:25:41.119 --> 01:25:44.439 I think it's also I think what's dangerous about it 1568 01:25:44.479 --> 01:25:49.439 is is like doing that with with the female characters 1569 01:25:49.800 --> 01:25:55.560 is so petty, and it's so it takes it takes 1570 01:25:55.600 --> 01:25:58.479 the women back a few steps in a few years, 1571 01:25:58.520 --> 01:26:01.520 and it's like, you know, I mean, my god, they 1572 01:26:01.520 --> 01:26:04.439 haven't been called you know, well, I guess they don't 1573 01:26:04.479 --> 01:26:08.520 call them women wrestlers, but they haven't been not divas. 1574 01:26:08.560 --> 01:26:12.439 For It's it's it took them too long to get 1575 01:26:12.439 --> 01:26:18.159 away from just defining them by their physical looks. That 1576 01:26:18.319 --> 01:26:21.199 to go back to that so quickly is you know, 1577 01:26:22.960 --> 01:26:25.920 there's just so many different stories you can tell that 1578 01:26:26.479 --> 01:26:30.319 to just go to, oh, well, women are being catty again, 1579 01:26:30.560 --> 01:26:34.399 it's just like it's just so it speaks. It just 1580 01:26:34.439 --> 01:26:39.760 speaks to Vince's perception of people and women in particular. 1581 01:26:40.800 --> 01:26:45.159 And it is so it's just lazy writing, you know basically, 1582 01:26:45.239 --> 01:26:48.439 And I and and I believe me, I'm always on 1583 01:26:48.479 --> 01:26:52.079 my sofucks on this. We watch wrestling is and that 1584 01:26:52.199 --> 01:26:55.680 is not. I'm not blaming the writers because, believe me, 1585 01:26:56.439 --> 01:26:59.079 at no point would would would anyone on the creative 1586 01:26:59.079 --> 01:27:01.600 team come to Vince and be like, well, she can 1587 01:27:01.680 --> 01:27:04.520 call her fat and ugly like that type of thing. 1588 01:27:05.359 --> 01:27:08.840 It's like that, this is this is a product of 1589 01:27:08.920 --> 01:27:11.359 Vince McMahon. You know, I could, I could say that 1590 01:27:11.880 --> 01:27:14.439 with one hundred percent degree of certainty. 1591 01:27:14.560 --> 01:27:16.600 Have you ever heard of him redlining a script and 1592 01:27:16.640 --> 01:27:20.399 saying no changes like reading, just no changes exact. 1593 01:27:23.560 --> 01:27:27.960 U. Yeah, believe it or not that that that's I mean, 1594 01:27:28.039 --> 01:27:31.840 the rarity. But believe it or not, I do remember 1595 01:27:31.880 --> 01:27:33.000 that actually happening. 1596 01:27:33.720 --> 01:27:35.560 I heard that because I say that because I heard 1597 01:27:35.560 --> 01:27:38.279 that might have happened with this, and it fits what 1598 01:27:38.279 --> 01:27:41.159 you're saying about how this is Vince's idea like that, 1599 01:27:41.279 --> 01:27:44.760 Vince didn't want anyone to break from exactly this because 1600 01:27:44.760 --> 01:27:46.319 he knew some people would be uncomfortable with it. 1601 01:27:46.960 --> 01:27:50.279 I don't know. I couldn't say, but I mean I do. 1602 01:27:50.479 --> 01:27:54.960 I remember specifically there being a time probably in the 1603 01:27:55.159 --> 01:27:58.199 fall of right when I started, probably the beginning of 1604 01:27:58.239 --> 01:28:01.520 winter twenty eleven. I remember because I was still on 1605 01:28:01.560 --> 01:28:05.760 the home team, and I remember Brian Goertz emphasizing to 1606 01:28:05.880 --> 01:28:07.800 us because we were all new, because they had just 1607 01:28:07.880 --> 01:28:10.720 been a mass firing and they were rebuilding the team. 1608 01:28:10.720 --> 01:28:15.439 Basically all the writers that were there were on the road. 1609 01:28:15.760 --> 01:28:18.039 And as a matter of fact, those are all the 1610 01:28:18.079 --> 01:28:23.640 guys that are still there, you know, that are the 1611 01:28:23.680 --> 01:28:27.800 higher ups in the creative team now. But I remember 1612 01:28:27.840 --> 01:28:31.399 Brian like emphasizing to us, like, you guys need to understand, 1613 01:28:31.439 --> 01:28:35.760 like the script that went on TV was basically the 1614 01:28:36.079 --> 01:28:39.399 same thing that we wrote here, and that's huge. And 1615 01:28:39.640 --> 01:28:42.880 it wasn't until the days and weeks and months went 1616 01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:45.760 on that I was able to appreciate just how huge 1617 01:28:45.760 --> 01:28:48.560 it was. And he was right to put us over 1618 01:28:48.640 --> 01:28:51.520 for that to be like, you guys don't understand, like 1619 01:28:51.560 --> 01:28:55.520 the script that we wrote is what wound up on 1620 01:28:55.560 --> 01:29:01.640 the air. Do you have no idea how monumental that is? Yeah, 1621 01:29:01.800 --> 01:29:05.479 So I don't know if it I mean, in the 1622 01:29:05.920 --> 01:29:09.640 time that I was there. I could count on one 1623 01:29:09.680 --> 01:29:12.680 hand the amount of times that I remember, you know, 1624 01:29:12.920 --> 01:29:17.680 Vince not O God, what is this? What is it? Sir? 1625 01:29:18.000 --> 01:29:21.479 This is the the script that you appro approved three 1626 01:29:21.560 --> 01:29:23.640 days ago. Okay, but never mind? 1627 01:29:24.279 --> 01:29:27.039 You know, But did he I mean, cause, does he 1628 01:29:27.119 --> 01:29:32.319 ever that you saw? Just say no changes, don't don't. 1629 01:29:32.359 --> 01:29:34.399 I don't want to hear it. I know you're gonna 1630 01:29:34.399 --> 01:29:34.800 be upset. 1631 01:29:34.840 --> 01:29:35.079 I don't. 1632 01:29:35.119 --> 01:29:36.840 I know I'm going to hear about this. But no changes, 1633 01:29:36.920 --> 01:29:41.039 just talent, producers, writers. This is what goes on the air. 1634 01:29:43.600 --> 01:29:46.680 Does he dig his heels and make that clear? Well? 1635 01:29:47.399 --> 01:29:50.199 You know, like I remember, this is interesting. I remember 1636 01:29:50.439 --> 01:29:54.840 when if you go way back to Daniel Brian cashing 1637 01:29:54.880 --> 01:29:58.039 in the money in the bank on I want to 1638 01:29:58.079 --> 01:30:00.800 say it was on Big Show when he first cashed 1639 01:30:00.840 --> 01:30:07.199 in for the World Heavyweight Championship. I want to say 1640 01:30:07.680 --> 01:30:13.279 Big Show was champed. I can't remember if that was 1641 01:30:13.880 --> 01:30:17.920 totally the case. I feel like it was, but I 1642 01:30:17.960 --> 01:30:22.359 remember that that was Vince's idea, that was Vince's call. 1643 01:30:22.760 --> 01:30:27.399 And he only told a couple of us, obviously not 1644 01:30:27.560 --> 01:30:29.319 me in the room, but like he only told a 1645 01:30:29.319 --> 01:30:32.640 couple of the guys been creative who then told me 1646 01:30:32.680 --> 01:30:35.520 and a couple other people because we were been writing 1647 01:30:35.520 --> 01:30:40.319 the scenarios on it. But he specifically he didn't want 1648 01:30:40.359 --> 01:30:42.640 anyone else to know because he didn't want anyone to 1649 01:30:42.720 --> 01:30:45.560 talk him out of it. So that was like a 1650 01:30:45.600 --> 01:30:50.239 situation where it was like, this is this is what 1651 01:30:50.319 --> 01:30:53.840 I want to do, and I don't want to hear. 1652 01:30:54.199 --> 01:30:58.199 So basically, instead of Vince saying, you know, listening to 1653 01:30:58.239 --> 01:31:00.800 everyone's feedback and then being like, no, this is what 1654 01:31:00.800 --> 01:31:05.640 we're doing, he vinced, to his credit, saw I could 1655 01:31:05.680 --> 01:31:08.640 see myself getting talked out of this by certain people, 1656 01:31:09.119 --> 01:31:11.239 So I'm just not going to tell those certain people, 1657 01:31:11.800 --> 01:31:13.880 and we're just gonna barrel ahead and do this and 1658 01:31:13.920 --> 01:31:15.600 this is this is the thing that we're going to 1659 01:31:15.680 --> 01:31:18.640 do on the pay per view I think it was 1660 01:31:18.640 --> 01:31:20.560 was it out of money in the bank or whatever 1661 01:31:20.600 --> 01:31:23.520 it was, I can't remember. The circumstance of it was raw, 1662 01:31:23.680 --> 01:31:25.560 So it was at the actual pay review itself, but 1663 01:31:26.399 --> 01:31:28.399 that was a situation where he's like, no, I want 1664 01:31:28.439 --> 01:31:30.920 Brian to cash in, and this is what we're doing, 1665 01:31:30.920 --> 01:31:33.840 and I don't want to hear about it from anyone. 1666 01:31:34.600 --> 01:31:38.720 But I don't know. I mean, like I'm trying to think, 1667 01:31:38.840 --> 01:31:43.960 like like like Rock and scene of going on last 1668 01:31:44.119 --> 01:31:47.159 I know that there was discussion of, well, we're also 1669 01:31:47.199 --> 01:31:51.680 doing Hunter and Undertaker in a Helen of Cell. Is 1670 01:31:52.000 --> 01:31:55.880 Ken is a championship match big enough to follow a 1671 01:31:55.920 --> 01:31:59.359 Helena Cell because it's almost like the situation that you 1672 01:31:59.439 --> 01:32:03.840 saw at all, like, well, this ladder match is going 1673 01:32:03.920 --> 01:32:11.039 to be bonkers crazy Ken just a singles match follow it. Obviously, 1674 01:32:11.279 --> 01:32:15.039 the championship makes it higher stakes, that the first championship 1675 01:32:15.079 --> 01:32:18.359 that they've ever crowned makes it higher stakes. But at 1676 01:32:18.399 --> 01:32:23.000 the same time, you know, Jericho and hang In Page 1677 01:32:23.079 --> 01:32:26.800 are not the same palaber of John Cena versus The 1678 01:32:27.000 --> 01:32:30.239 Rock and The Rock being the biggest movie star in 1679 01:32:30.279 --> 01:32:34.479 the world and doing his first singles match back in 1680 01:32:34.600 --> 01:32:38.880 years and years? You know, is that a bigger draw 1681 01:32:39.039 --> 01:32:44.319 than Undertaker and Triple H and helenfl Clearly it was, 1682 01:32:44.760 --> 01:32:48.479 and I was of the mindset that it was even before. 1683 01:32:49.760 --> 01:32:53.760 I mean, they could have used guns and that Helen 1684 01:32:53.880 --> 01:32:57.039 Is a match and it still wouldn't have meant more 1685 01:32:58.520 --> 01:33:01.840 than The Rock coming against John Cena, you know, the 1686 01:33:02.439 --> 01:33:05.920 Old Guard versus the New Guard. The fact that the 1687 01:33:05.920 --> 01:33:09.159 title was on the line was what's the title even 1688 01:33:09.159 --> 01:33:11.920 on the line at that one. I don't even remember. No, 1689 01:33:12.079 --> 01:33:15.000 it wasn't because because the title would have been Punk 1690 01:33:15.039 --> 01:33:20.600 and uh in Jericho, right, Yeah, yeah, the title wasn't 1691 01:33:20.600 --> 01:33:23.359 even involved in so even so, it was just a 1692 01:33:23.359 --> 01:33:24.720 straight up singles. 1693 01:33:24.319 --> 01:33:27.600 Match as a stretch where Punk never got Punk is 1694 01:33:27.640 --> 01:33:29.640 World Champion, never got to actually close out a pay 1695 01:33:29.640 --> 01:33:31.199 per view unless he was against the Rock Orders. 1696 01:33:31.279 --> 01:33:37.520 That's right, Yeah, that's right. Oh my god, incredible. So yeah, 1697 01:33:37.560 --> 01:33:41.399 I mean there were plenty of times where Vince was like, now, 1698 01:33:41.600 --> 01:33:46.439 this is what we got to do, you know, I mean, 1699 01:33:47.680 --> 01:33:52.840 it's it's I mean it we can we can point 1700 01:33:52.840 --> 01:33:54.399 out a lot of things that Vince does wrong, but 1701 01:33:54.399 --> 01:33:56.520 there's a lot of things that clearly Vince does right. 1702 01:33:57.560 --> 01:33:59.600 And the you know, and when it comes down to it, 1703 01:33:59.600 --> 01:34:02.279 and any thing that is on the air of a 1704 01:34:02.439 --> 01:34:07.279 WWE show, it whether it was Vince's idea or not, 1705 01:34:08.199 --> 01:34:10.920 Vince was the last one to say, this is what 1706 01:34:10.960 --> 01:34:15.960 we're doing. Yeah, And and part of part of what 1707 01:34:16.119 --> 01:34:18.800 works with Vince is also what what doesn't work with 1708 01:34:18.880 --> 01:34:23.600 Vince is that he loves options, and sometimes there's too 1709 01:34:23.600 --> 01:34:29.840 many options and suddenly he you know, there's just too 1710 01:34:30.079 --> 01:34:32.279 there's there's there's just too much going on, and then 1711 01:34:32.439 --> 01:34:34.520 things get fall through the cracks, and then things get 1712 01:34:34.560 --> 01:34:36.800 changed at the last men, and then suddenly nothing makes 1713 01:34:36.840 --> 01:34:38.920 sense and then Vince's like, well, we're moving on, it 1714 01:34:38.920 --> 01:34:41.880 doesn't matter, and it's like, wow, maybe it does. You know, 1715 01:34:42.119 --> 01:34:44.239 the Raiders would say that it does. Yeah, you know. 1716 01:34:51.479 --> 01:34:53.880 Are you a fan of AW looking to sit back, 1717 01:34:54.000 --> 01:34:57.039 relax and listen to some like minded podcasters who share 1718 01:34:57.119 --> 01:34:59.439 your passion? Do you want to be topped off the 1719 01:34:59.520 --> 01:35:02.159 ledge after segment that has you wondering what the heck 1720 01:35:02.159 --> 01:35:04.880 are they thinking? Do you want to join a discussion 1721 01:35:04.920 --> 01:35:07.680 on what AW is doing right and what they could 1722 01:35:07.720 --> 01:35:10.800 do to improve? Then join me Joel and me Greg 1723 01:35:10.920 --> 01:35:13.520 for the All Elee Conversation Club every Friday on the 1724 01:35:13.520 --> 01:35:17.359 pw torch Live Cast. Fee search pw torch in your 1725 01:35:17.399 --> 01:35:20.760 podcast app and subscribe to pw torch Daily Cast or 1726 01:35:20.800 --> 01:35:23.960 stream our shows directly from pw torch dot com. Find 1727 01:35:23.960 --> 01:35:27.000 full details on the pw torch Daily Cast lineup at 1728 01:35:27.039 --> 01:35:39.119 pw torchdailycast dot com. 1729 01:35:39.159 --> 01:35:42.760 So just a couple other undercard matches, They're all championship 1730 01:35:42.760 --> 01:35:44.880 matches other than Roman Rowan So I don't mean to 1731 01:35:44.920 --> 01:35:47.079 mean any of them, but yes, there's too many championships 1732 01:35:47.079 --> 01:35:51.800 in WWE, but AJ Style, Cedrick Alexander, just any thoughts 1733 01:35:51.800 --> 01:35:55.479 on what they've done with that match in those two lately, Yeah. 1734 01:35:55.439 --> 01:35:58.600 I mean that should be a real good match. I 1735 01:35:58.600 --> 01:36:00.880 feel like they've done a pretty good job building et cetera, 1736 01:36:02.600 --> 01:36:07.000 you know, mora or less. I mean in the vacuum 1737 01:36:07.000 --> 01:36:11.680 of WWE, you know where they where they stand now 1738 01:36:11.760 --> 01:36:16.119 building babyfaces, They've you know, done a pretty decent job. 1739 01:36:17.680 --> 01:36:20.079 And then and I like a J, you know, I 1740 01:36:20.159 --> 01:36:24.119 like a J in this role of you know, the 1741 01:36:24.119 --> 01:36:28.640 the US champ. I mean again, it's it's, it's it's 1742 01:36:29.239 --> 01:36:32.520 it's basically that match isn't a priority, you know, for 1743 01:36:32.640 --> 01:36:37.000 me as a viewer or for them booking it, so 1744 01:36:37.119 --> 01:36:41.359 that can that can actually work for them because if things, 1745 01:36:42.880 --> 01:36:46.600 you know, I remember, like Dave Chappelle talking about when 1746 01:36:46.640 --> 01:36:49.479 the Chappelle Show stopped being fun and then he very 1747 01:36:49.520 --> 01:36:52.359 famously walked away from it and you know, went on 1748 01:36:52.399 --> 01:36:58.520 sabbatical basically, but he described the Chappelle Show was fun 1749 01:36:58.720 --> 01:37:02.479 when it felt like nobody was watching, you know, and 1750 01:37:02.479 --> 01:37:06.560 and I and I can appreciate that, like that it's 1751 01:37:06.600 --> 01:37:09.119 so I think with a day Et Cedric, it's it's 1752 01:37:09.279 --> 01:37:11.960 I could see that them pulling off something good because 1753 01:37:12.000 --> 01:37:16.359 it's not you don't have that. I could see Vince 1754 01:37:16.479 --> 01:37:19.840 not uh, fixating on it and wound up picking it 1755 01:37:19.880 --> 01:37:23.680 apart and ruining it. Because there is a as as 1756 01:37:23.720 --> 01:37:26.079 like a writer, there is a thing of like when 1757 01:37:26.119 --> 01:37:30.560 when you start messing with something too much, it's a sweater. 1758 01:37:30.640 --> 01:37:33.119 The whole thing can just fall apart and then there's 1759 01:37:33.119 --> 01:37:37.800 no way to get it back together. Like I remember 1760 01:37:37.880 --> 01:37:41.520 reading like a h a collection of Farside cartoons where 1761 01:37:41.640 --> 01:37:45.000 Gary Larson was like he gave some example of like 1762 01:37:45.039 --> 01:37:46.800 this is where it started, this is where it ended, 1763 01:37:46.840 --> 01:37:50.279 and this is He's like, I just I kept because 1764 01:37:50.319 --> 01:37:53.760 you should go through drafts. Definitely you should rewrite, but 1765 01:37:54.359 --> 01:37:56.680 you can hit a point where it's like, you know, 1766 01:37:56.800 --> 01:37:59.600 pencils down, this is we're done. Now we need to 1767 01:37:59.640 --> 01:38:03.600 move on. You can ruin something by trying to fix it. 1768 01:38:03.680 --> 01:38:07.119 And I feel like A j and Cedric are are 1769 01:38:07.159 --> 01:38:11.199 flying under the radar and can maybe are are gonna 1770 01:38:11.399 --> 01:38:15.560 exceed expectations because maybe there aren't any Yeah, I mean 1771 01:38:15.600 --> 01:38:19.920 from I mean from Vince, you know type of thing. Yeah, 1772 01:38:20.000 --> 01:38:20.680 so we'll see. 1773 01:38:21.399 --> 01:38:25.960 How about Shinsky, Nakamura, the Icy Champ. I admit half 1774 01:38:26.000 --> 01:38:28.920 of my awake hours, I forget who the Icy and 1775 01:38:29.000 --> 01:38:33.399 US champs are these days, defending against the Miz with 1776 01:38:33.720 --> 01:38:37.000 Sammy's ay, and I think still with shinsk who knows, 1777 01:38:37.119 --> 01:38:40.239 but he did get chokes line Bindertaker and for all 1778 01:38:40.239 --> 01:38:42.079 we know, Sammy's gonna show up with Kevin Owens with 1779 01:38:42.119 --> 01:38:46.600 a complete you know, Dallas shower scene reset next Wednesday, 1780 01:38:46.600 --> 01:38:49.479 and you know who knows. But right now Shinsky is 1781 01:38:49.520 --> 01:38:51.319 maybe with Sammy in his corner. What do you think 1782 01:38:51.319 --> 01:38:51.560 of that? 1783 01:38:52.279 --> 01:38:55.680 I should be fine, you know, I mean, Shinsk is 1784 01:38:57.000 --> 01:39:00.920 he's he's really enjoying his retirement. He's you know, I 1785 01:39:01.000 --> 01:39:03.359 like to I think I like that Knackamore is keeping 1786 01:39:03.399 --> 01:39:10.560 busy while he's retired here in the United States. Yeah, 1787 01:39:10.600 --> 01:39:14.720 it should be fine. I'm not expecting. I'm not expecting, 1788 01:39:14.760 --> 01:39:19.319 you know, the main event of the Tokyo Dome. But yeah, 1789 01:39:19.399 --> 01:39:23.039 I mean this is good, This is good in this role. 1790 01:39:23.119 --> 01:39:28.439 I mean, it's it's an interesting I mean christ I 1791 01:39:28.439 --> 01:39:33.520 mean think about like the pairing up of it, just 1792 01:39:33.520 --> 01:39:35.800 just on paper, just looking at it in terms of 1793 01:39:35.840 --> 01:39:39.920 like from like a a two thy eleven or twenty 1794 01:39:40.039 --> 01:39:44.600 twelve pair of sunglasses or even like twenty thirteen, Like 1795 01:39:44.760 --> 01:39:48.119 just take it like five years back. Let's say, if like, 1796 01:39:49.000 --> 01:39:51.600 if you had told me we'd be doing Shinske Knackamore 1797 01:39:51.760 --> 01:39:53.880 versus The Miz for the icy title on a pay 1798 01:39:53.920 --> 01:40:00.880 per view, I would have said, really, But I mean 1799 01:40:00.920 --> 01:40:04.800 it makes sense. It's been a fine it's been a 1800 01:40:04.800 --> 01:40:08.319 fine build, and you know, I think that there's better 1801 01:40:08.359 --> 01:40:10.520 things that we could be doing with Sammy's Ain. But 1802 01:40:11.119 --> 01:40:12.880 as far as if this is the role that he's 1803 01:40:12.920 --> 01:40:17.920 going to be in, he's certainly good at it. Yeah, 1804 01:40:17.920 --> 01:40:21.520 but uh, you know, I mean I I knew somebody 1805 01:40:21.600 --> 01:40:23.960 that was on the creative team that was let go 1806 01:40:25.199 --> 01:40:28.640 earlier this year, and and with somebody that when he 1807 01:40:28.760 --> 01:40:32.079 was done was done watching the show, and I was 1808 01:40:32.359 --> 01:40:34.000 talking to him on the phone. I mentioned to him. 1809 01:40:34.000 --> 01:40:35.880 I was like, I was like, wow, you know, it's weird. 1810 01:40:35.920 --> 01:40:38.720 I mean, Samy's Ain is now Hinton Kimore's manager. And 1811 01:40:38.760 --> 01:40:45.439 he was just like what the reaction? And I was like, oh, yeah, man, 1812 01:40:45.760 --> 01:40:48.199 you gotta you got to tune into the. 1813 01:40:49.880 --> 01:40:51.840 I feel like some people reacted way they missed one 1814 01:40:51.840 --> 01:40:54.880 week of TV, you know, but but yeah, I can 1815 01:40:54.960 --> 01:40:56.880 imagine being that immersed in it and then just divorcing 1816 01:40:56.880 --> 01:40:59.239 yourself from it and then just being reacquainted with it. It 1817 01:40:59.159 --> 01:40:59.720 could be kind of. 1818 01:40:59.680 --> 01:41:04.359 Shocked, right Like it was funny like at Starcast during 1819 01:41:04.359 --> 01:41:08.359 the Punk interview, it was funny them having to explain 1820 01:41:08.399 --> 01:41:12.199 to him like, you know, like, well, Koffee, you know, 1821 01:41:12.239 --> 01:41:14.399 he's got he's got the pancakes, and he's like, he's what, 1822 01:41:14.720 --> 01:41:17.720 He's got pancakes. The most entertaining thing actually in that 1823 01:41:17.800 --> 01:41:21.359 interview was when it was when Mike Johnson explained to 1824 01:41:21.399 --> 01:41:25.520 him that, well, you know, like Rollins and Becky Lynch, 1825 01:41:25.800 --> 01:41:27.880 they've been off the last two weeks. They got time off, 1826 01:41:27.960 --> 01:41:32.520 Like Punk just goes they got time off, yeapros and 1827 01:41:33.279 --> 01:41:36.079 for a good minute of just like you can ask 1828 01:41:36.159 --> 01:41:37.239 for time off, now what? 1829 01:41:38.960 --> 01:41:41.439 But then then after the amazement wore off about you know, 1830 01:41:41.520 --> 01:41:44.119 five to ten minutes later, he's like, well they'll be punished. 1831 01:41:44.279 --> 01:41:46.439 I mean, come on, you know, you know they're not 1832 01:41:46.479 --> 01:41:48.279 going to pay a price for that. That that can't 1833 01:41:48.319 --> 01:41:51.279 go unpunished. You might have the leverage to ask for it, 1834 01:41:51.399 --> 01:41:53.880 and aw might be creating that or who knows what 1835 01:41:54.239 --> 01:41:56.640 but but they'll pay in some way. They may not 1836 01:41:56.800 --> 01:41:58.119 they may or may not realize it. 1837 01:41:59.319 --> 01:42:01.800 Hopefully, no doubt, we'll see. 1838 01:42:02.920 --> 01:42:05.560 We we didn't talk about the Seth and Brawn against 1839 01:42:05.600 --> 01:42:09.359 Ruden Ziggler. Uh, aspect of of this where they're they're 1840 01:42:09.439 --> 01:42:12.680 friends teaming as champions of Beast. Done that before. I 1841 01:42:12.680 --> 01:42:15.960 guess we can talk about that briefly. Just what do 1842 01:42:15.960 --> 01:42:17.520 you think of Ruden Zigger being kind of thrown together 1843 01:42:17.560 --> 01:42:21.159 as a team and uh, did they float a team 1844 01:42:21.239 --> 01:42:23.479 name for them on Monday? I feel like the announcers 1845 01:42:23.840 --> 01:42:25.159 threw a name out there and I'm forgetting what it 1846 01:42:25.199 --> 01:42:27.039 was that they are calling themselves. But anyway, Yeah, your 1847 01:42:27.039 --> 01:42:27.720 thoughts on that. 1848 01:42:28.880 --> 01:42:30.720 I think did I missed it? I don't know. I mean, 1849 01:42:31.000 --> 01:42:34.239 it almost reminds me of when we paired up Puddy 1850 01:42:34.319 --> 01:42:42.079 Rhodes and uh and oh God Damnian Sandout. Yeah, you 1851 01:42:42.119 --> 01:42:44.760 know where it was like, you know what, you got 1852 01:42:44.760 --> 01:42:47.800 to do something with them, And it almost makes sense, 1853 01:42:47.960 --> 01:42:51.479 you know, Ziggler and Rude. It's two people that I 1854 01:42:51.520 --> 01:42:57.399 mean have been underutilized. I Meaniggler, it's literally Dolf Ziggler 1855 01:42:57.399 --> 01:42:59.760 has been underutilized to the point where that's now his 1856 01:43:00.840 --> 01:43:04.039 You know. I mean it's it's it's it's high comedy. 1857 01:43:05.439 --> 01:43:10.079 I mean, it's the most meta self parody you can imagine. 1858 01:43:10.079 --> 01:43:13.479 And then Bobby rut it's just or Robert Rude. Excuse me, 1859 01:43:15.439 --> 01:43:18.720 I mean it's just, uh yeah, you gotta do something with. 1860 01:43:18.720 --> 01:43:21.239 You You'll be right next week, maybe by the time 1861 01:43:21.279 --> 01:43:21.600 to stop. 1862 01:43:22.199 --> 01:43:27.800 Yeah, yeah, no doubt. But that all being said, I 1863 01:43:27.840 --> 01:43:29.680 do like them as a pair. I feel like it 1864 01:43:30.039 --> 01:43:33.560 makes sense, uh you know, aesthetically, I feel like they 1865 01:43:33.560 --> 01:43:36.680 have the same kind of attitude, and they are both 1866 01:43:36.720 --> 01:43:40.520 you know, clearly talented in and of itself. But you know, 1867 01:43:40.720 --> 01:43:43.159 I mean Rollins versus Stroman does it? Does it mean 1868 01:43:43.159 --> 01:43:45.159 that they're going to then lose the belt to them? 1869 01:43:45.359 --> 01:43:48.039 I mean, are they is there going to be their 1870 01:43:48.119 --> 01:43:51.159 own fault? You know? Are they going to stop getting 1871 01:43:51.159 --> 01:43:54.000 along during the match and then lead into their match? 1872 01:43:55.239 --> 01:43:58.039 I don't know. It seems like a simple way to 1873 01:43:58.079 --> 01:44:01.159 tell the story. Then you get into you know, Bobby 1874 01:44:01.199 --> 01:44:05.199 and Dolph defending those belts, you know, because it's because 1875 01:44:05.239 --> 01:44:08.960 it's he got two main eventors with the tag belts together. 1876 01:44:09.119 --> 01:44:13.239 It's never you know, a bad thing. I always enjoyed 1877 01:44:13.279 --> 01:44:16.880 that that brief run when Stone Cold and Undertaker were 1878 01:44:16.920 --> 01:44:21.600 tag champs together, was then didn't that happen? Can that happen? 1879 01:44:22.119 --> 01:44:24.319 Or at least there was that period where like Stone 1880 01:44:24.359 --> 01:44:27.199 Cold was the tag champ or like he was tagging 1881 01:44:27.199 --> 01:44:29.640 with it or with stone Cold at Sean Michaels for 1882 01:44:29.680 --> 01:44:32.239 they chances to get I mean stone called the mcfoley 1883 01:44:32.239 --> 01:44:35.319 were definitely tag champs together. That's that makes sense. I 1884 01:44:35.920 --> 01:44:39.039 feel like, yeah, they were. I feel like Stone Cold 1885 01:44:39.079 --> 01:44:42.359 and Undertaker were tag champs for for a second and that, 1886 01:44:42.600 --> 01:44:45.159 but it was it wasn't on the same show as 1887 01:44:45.399 --> 01:44:47.720 them having their match at the Garden, but it was 1888 01:44:47.760 --> 01:44:54.760 like leading up to it. I'm almost positive. But but anyway, you. 1889 01:44:54.720 --> 01:45:03.239 Know, it's Lord and the Funny but you know, I 1890 01:45:03.279 --> 01:45:06.880 mean Rolins and bron they won the Take Team titles. 1891 01:45:07.119 --> 01:45:09.800 They won the Take Team titles from Cain and Mankind 1892 01:45:10.239 --> 01:45:13.479 at Fully Loaded on July twenty sixth, nineteen ninety eight, 1893 01:45:14.159 --> 01:45:17.560 and they held the titles for about two weeks before 1894 01:45:17.600 --> 01:45:22.479 listening back, so understandable to not quite have that drilled 1895 01:45:22.479 --> 01:45:24.159 into our our memories. 1896 01:45:25.479 --> 01:45:27.079 They had it for about a cup of coffee. 1897 01:45:27.119 --> 01:45:31.079 And that was the era where tape where championships changed 1898 01:45:31.119 --> 01:45:36.079 hands constantly like oh, like the WWF title changed hands 1899 01:45:36.079 --> 01:45:37.800 more times from like I don't know what year I 1900 01:45:38.119 --> 01:45:40.079 charted once, like ninety five to two thousand and five, 1901 01:45:40.439 --> 01:45:42.479 like three times more often than it had in all 1902 01:45:42.520 --> 01:45:44.600 of the previous history, or six times more. Some crazy 1903 01:45:44.600 --> 01:45:46.079 I did a cover story at once on the Torch 1904 01:45:46.119 --> 01:45:49.720 newsletter like this, this has to stop. This is not 1905 01:45:50.680 --> 01:45:53.920 this is not good. You're cashing in decades of equity 1906 01:45:54.079 --> 01:45:56.600 of keep making title changes seem special. They've been better 1907 01:45:56.640 --> 01:45:59.079 about it, but there's too many titles that I still. 1908 01:45:58.920 --> 01:46:03.720 Knowm The rent is oh my lord. So I will say, 1909 01:46:03.760 --> 01:46:05.720 I mean, you know, Rowlins and Brun, that'll be a 1910 01:46:05.720 --> 01:46:09.359 good match in and of itself. I gotta think Rollins 1911 01:46:09.399 --> 01:46:13.680 has to walk away with with the belts, So. 1912 01:46:12.479 --> 01:46:14.920 Yeah, I will think, Yeah, I wanted Braun to be 1913 01:46:15.840 --> 01:46:18.399 convince me a little more with the situation he was 1914 01:46:18.439 --> 01:46:20.560 put in. I wanted him to convince me a little 1915 01:46:20.560 --> 01:46:22.279 more that he had his eye on that title. And 1916 01:46:22.359 --> 01:46:24.079 if you're a bron fan, you should believe this is 1917 01:46:24.119 --> 01:46:26.279 the night. And I almost feel like it's a tell 1918 01:46:26.680 --> 01:46:29.000 that he didn't do that. That is not winning, because 1919 01:46:29.000 --> 01:46:31.560 there's this weird mentality if the if the baby face, 1920 01:46:31.600 --> 01:46:33.199 even if they're facing on the face, if the basics 1921 01:46:33.199 --> 01:46:35.319 of baby face isn't gonna win the title, don't get 1922 01:46:35.319 --> 01:46:37.840 the fans hopes up and I'm like, no, you're you're 1923 01:46:37.880 --> 01:46:40.159 selling tickets based on hope. That's the whole point of 1924 01:46:40.159 --> 01:46:42.880 tuning in, and the disappointment is part of the emotional 1925 01:46:42.920 --> 01:46:45.239 roller coaster. And all Broun did is you know, I 1926 01:46:45.479 --> 01:46:47.439 get I'm gonna You're gonna get these hands. It was 1927 01:46:47.479 --> 01:46:49.880 like a cliche. It didn't feel I didn't I didn't 1928 01:46:49.880 --> 01:46:52.600 feel sold on this being epic. I got sold on 1929 01:46:52.640 --> 01:46:55.960 this being something that got thrown together and will be forgotten. 1930 01:46:58.000 --> 01:47:02.680 Uh, definitely, Yeah, it has. It has felt to me 1931 01:47:02.920 --> 01:47:06.399 the whole time, like, I mean, it's funny that they're 1932 01:47:06.600 --> 01:47:11.319 fighting against Rude and Ziggler because them being paired up 1933 01:47:11.359 --> 01:47:14.760 feels like, well, you gotta do something with Balus and 1934 01:47:14.800 --> 01:47:19.439 then Rollin's and Stroman like he's the champ another champs together. 1935 01:47:19.479 --> 01:47:21.800 It just feels like, well, this is something we've done before, 1936 01:47:21.920 --> 01:47:23.520 we haven't done it in a little bit, why don't 1937 01:47:23.560 --> 01:47:28.000 we do this, which is the nature of the Beast 1938 01:47:28.159 --> 01:47:33.000 because it's like there's no there's no old storylines. It's 1939 01:47:33.159 --> 01:47:35.800 just an audience who hasn't seen it yet, and it's like, well, 1940 01:47:35.840 --> 01:47:37.760 when's the last time we did this. When's the last 1941 01:47:37.800 --> 01:47:39.600 time we did a heel rep. When's the last time 1942 01:47:39.640 --> 01:47:41.520 we had somebody run in and ring the bell before 1943 01:47:41.520 --> 01:47:43.399 the match is over? You know, when's the last time 1944 01:47:43.439 --> 01:47:45.920 somebody broke their leg? Whence the last time a guy 1945 01:47:45.960 --> 01:47:48.880 got hit by a car once? Let you know, if 1946 01:47:48.880 --> 01:47:51.239 we're not gonna if we're not going to try and 1947 01:47:51.319 --> 01:47:54.800 use stuff, you know, it's like, well, what's what worked 1948 01:47:54.800 --> 01:47:57.479 in the past, Well, when's the last time we did that. Well, 1949 01:47:57.840 --> 01:48:01.800 let's try it. We gotta do something. Yeah, we got 1950 01:48:01.840 --> 01:48:04.880 hours and hours of TV to fill, you know, because 1951 01:48:04.880 --> 01:48:07.319 I mean it's it's every story has been told. There's 1952 01:48:07.399 --> 01:48:12.359 only like you know, the old cliches, there's only seven jokes. 1953 01:48:12.600 --> 01:48:17.039 It's just a different way to write. Every movie is 1954 01:48:17.319 --> 01:48:19.079 the guy and the girl are going to meet and 1955 01:48:19.079 --> 01:48:21.000 fall in love and they're going to get together or 1956 01:48:21.000 --> 01:48:23.560 they're not. It's just the way that you do it. 1957 01:48:23.720 --> 01:48:28.520 That's just fashion. Yeah, that's just you know how we're 1958 01:48:28.520 --> 01:48:29.159 going to do it. 1959 01:48:31.960 --> 01:48:33.520 Give yourself a reason to look forward to going to 1960 01:48:33.520 --> 01:48:37.079 the mailbox each week with a PW Torch Newsletter paper copy. 1961 01:48:37.159 --> 01:48:41.600 Subscription details at PW torch dot com slash paper Copy. 1962 01:48:41.760 --> 01:48:44.560 It's twelve pages every week packed with my TV reports, 1963 01:48:44.600 --> 01:48:47.119 along with exclusive features such as my cover story on 1964 01:48:47.159 --> 01:48:49.399 the top story of the week, our pay per view 1965 01:48:49.479 --> 01:48:53.159 roundtable reviews from the Torch staff, exclusive feature length columns 1966 01:48:53.199 --> 01:48:57.279 from Greg Parks, Rich Fan, Sean Radikin, Alan Coonahan, and 1967 01:48:57.399 --> 01:49:01.159 Zach Cadorn, Torch Talk transcripts, the latest news, and more. 1968 01:49:01.560 --> 01:49:05.199 PW torch dot com slash paper Copy. Take a break 1969 01:49:05.199 --> 01:49:08.359 from screen time and settle in every week with the 1970 01:49:08.439 --> 01:49:11.479 Megadosa wrestling news and analysis with a Pro Wrestling Torch 1971 01:49:11.520 --> 01:49:14.840 Newsletter paper copy edition. In the year twenty twenty two. 1972 01:49:15.319 --> 01:49:17.800 You can get a full year of home delivery for 1973 01:49:17.960 --> 01:49:21.000 just ninety nine dollars, or try us for an eight 1974 01:49:21.039 --> 01:49:27.960 week trial subscription PW torch dot com slash paper Copy. 1975 01:49:29.039 --> 01:49:31.760 All right, so we covered the clash. I got about 1976 01:49:31.760 --> 01:49:34.560 ten minutes, and I want to ask you a few 1977 01:49:34.560 --> 01:49:36.760 other questions and a couple mailbak questions. Can we do that? 1978 01:49:38.399 --> 01:49:38.560 Oh? 1979 01:49:38.760 --> 01:49:38.800 Do? 1980 01:49:39.039 --> 01:49:39.439 Let's do it? 1981 01:49:39.439 --> 01:49:39.680 All right? 1982 01:49:39.720 --> 01:49:42.760 I want to give the first email, uh here, get 1983 01:49:42.760 --> 01:49:46.239 the first email here? Nelson says he's from the Bronx. 1984 01:49:46.279 --> 01:49:48.960 He's a proud pw Torch VPP subscriber and a We 1985 01:49:49.079 --> 01:49:51.640 Watch Wrestling podcast listener, So he comes first in our 1986 01:49:51.640 --> 01:49:55.119 Mailbak segment. Here he says, one, can you see me down? 1987 01:49:55.439 --> 01:49:57.760 Can you see Jimmy Havock and all these guys doing 1988 01:49:57.800 --> 01:50:01.000 all that hardcore stuff on TNT on pay per view? Yes, 1989 01:50:01.239 --> 01:50:03.800 but on cable, what do you think that? 1990 01:50:07.079 --> 01:50:09.279 I mean, a version of it. I don't think that 1991 01:50:09.279 --> 01:50:13.800 they're going to, you know, be swallowing sumbtexs and you know, 1992 01:50:14.239 --> 01:50:19.439 falling through wheelbarrows or whatever they wheelbarrows, just the cracker 1993 01:50:19.479 --> 01:50:22.439 barrels and stuff. You can do a version of it, 1994 01:50:22.520 --> 01:50:26.119 but I don't think you need blood on TV. I 1995 01:50:26.159 --> 01:50:30.199 mean it's also they're going to be running a traditional 1996 01:50:30.279 --> 01:50:33.640 pay per view business, so they're in a better position 1997 01:50:34.039 --> 01:50:37.760 than WWE in that respect because it's like, I have 1998 01:50:37.840 --> 01:50:39.840 an incentive to want to tune into the pay per 1999 01:50:39.920 --> 01:50:42.479 view because it's like, Wow, Jimmy Havock's crazy. You know, 2000 01:50:42.880 --> 01:50:45.359 Joey Janella is crazy. They're going to do something crazy 2001 01:50:45.399 --> 01:50:49.880 on the pay per view. It's it's there is an 2002 01:50:49.880 --> 01:50:53.319 incentive to the hardcore thing. You can tease it on TV, 2003 01:50:54.520 --> 01:50:57.520 you can go to a certain certain level with it, 2004 01:50:57.600 --> 01:51:00.319 But if you want to see the real madness, then 2005 01:51:00.319 --> 01:51:01.880 you got to buy the pay per view next one. 2006 01:51:01.880 --> 01:51:05.279 And that should be the sales pitch. I mean, embrace it, right, 2007 01:51:05.520 --> 01:51:07.600 you know we you know, don't say PG on the 2008 01:51:07.640 --> 01:51:10.119 air and never say that because they're just telling fans 2009 01:51:10.279 --> 01:51:12.439 the show could be more cool except for the guys upstairs, like, 2010 01:51:12.560 --> 01:51:15.399 never draw attention to that. But you can say, you know, 2011 01:51:15.680 --> 01:51:20.680 the rules are loosened, the platform is there and on 2012 01:51:20.760 --> 01:51:23.079 pay per view, and everyone's gonna let loose and you 2013 01:51:23.119 --> 01:51:24.399 know whatever. I mean, there's a way to frame it 2014 01:51:24.479 --> 01:51:26.800 and and market it. But yeah, I don't, I don't 2015 01:51:27.039 --> 01:51:29.399 I think they're gonna. I mean, I know people in 2016 01:51:29.560 --> 01:51:32.800 whow you complain incessantly as a distraction from their own 2017 01:51:32.840 --> 01:51:36.520 incompetence and bad decisions about standards and practices, but that 2018 01:51:36.680 --> 01:51:38.520 you know, that can be an asset too. When you're 2019 01:51:38.520 --> 01:51:40.319 in the pay per view business, you you should have 2020 01:51:40.359 --> 01:51:42.920 your own standards and practices. One, because if you're good 2021 01:51:42.920 --> 01:51:44.399 at what you're doing, you shouldn't have to do all 2022 01:51:44.399 --> 01:51:47.560 the other stuff, and very often, and when you do 2023 01:51:47.560 --> 01:51:49.119 do it, you should make people pay to see it, 2024 01:51:49.159 --> 01:51:50.239 because that's the business you're in. 2025 01:51:50.880 --> 01:51:54.520 Yeah. Yeah, I mean there's I mean, it's I mean 2026 01:51:54.800 --> 01:51:57.199 it's like yeah, I mean we say yeah, I mean. 2027 01:51:57.079 --> 01:52:00.760 It's it's yeah, Matt, all right, So number two, do 2028 01:52:00.760 --> 01:52:03.640 you think the tears system of a tear system for 2029 01:52:03.840 --> 01:52:05.319 to B network would work? Are people going to pay 2030 01:52:05.319 --> 01:52:07.479 fifteen dollars a month or more? I'm happy with ten 2031 01:52:07.520 --> 01:52:08.720 dollars a month, but I don't know if I want 2032 01:52:08.720 --> 01:52:10.800 to go beyond that because the WW product is not 2033 01:52:11.399 --> 01:52:13.680 definitely said, it is definitely not setting the world on fire. 2034 01:52:13.960 --> 01:52:15.800 Great job, gentlemen, keep up the great work, and Matt 2035 01:52:15.840 --> 01:52:18.920 please keep doing those awesome vincement man impressions coming on 2036 01:52:18.960 --> 01:52:21.720 your podcast. Do you and your partner make my day? 2037 01:52:21.760 --> 01:52:25.319 When I tune in? Everyone go VP on PW Torch. 2038 01:52:26.000 --> 01:52:26.359 Yeah? 2039 01:52:27.000 --> 01:52:33.239 Good, god, damn well, I think my Vince impersonation is 2040 01:52:33.279 --> 01:52:35.640 a derivative of your Vince impersonation. 2041 01:52:37.119 --> 01:52:39.600 Well minus derivative of Brian goork. 2042 01:52:39.880 --> 01:52:43.199 Okay, good, there's a whole whole family trail here. 2043 01:52:43.880 --> 01:52:44.039 Chain. 2044 01:52:45.319 --> 01:52:46.760 Yeah, So what do you think of a tear system? 2045 01:52:46.760 --> 01:52:48.640 If if they you know, the idea may be being 2046 01:52:48.640 --> 01:52:51.720 introducing some of the satellite indie groups that they have 2047 01:52:51.760 --> 01:52:55.720 a good relationship with, or other aspects of it that 2048 01:52:55.880 --> 01:52:58.199 are on the tier. What would it take to do 2049 01:52:58.239 --> 01:53:00.000 you think, to get most fans to pay five dollars 2050 01:53:00.079 --> 01:53:01.600 extra and not just be angry about it. 2051 01:53:02.279 --> 01:53:07.600 I don't know, because there's so much I don't know 2052 01:53:07.640 --> 01:53:11.079 what the incentive would be, you know, because for me 2053 01:53:12.159 --> 01:53:15.640 there's too much product, you know, like I have it, 2054 01:53:15.800 --> 01:53:19.199 Like I still haven't even gotten around to watch in 2055 01:53:20.640 --> 01:53:25.279 the nxc UK show yet, you know I will at 2056 01:53:25.279 --> 01:53:27.880 some point. Yeah, Like I love those guys. I love Bait, 2057 01:53:28.000 --> 01:53:32.159 I love Walter, but it's like, it's it's it's just 2058 01:53:32.239 --> 01:53:36.520 it's so funny, like the incentive of watching a great 2059 01:53:36.560 --> 01:53:40.039 wrestling match isn't even enough anymore. Sometimes, Oh, you know. 2060 01:53:40.159 --> 01:53:42.399 It's an embarrassing to riches, but it's it is. 2061 01:53:42.960 --> 01:53:43.199 I mean. 2062 01:53:43.520 --> 01:53:46.079 Bruce Mitchell in this week's Prosting Towards newsletter is as 2063 01:53:46.119 --> 01:53:48.720 a second and in a multi part series of you know, 2064 01:53:48.800 --> 01:53:52.079 with his mutual snark and and whatever you want to 2065 01:53:52.119 --> 01:53:54.359 characterize that, but his guide to how to keep up 2066 01:53:54.399 --> 01:53:57.039 on wrestling these days, and he has a very efficient 2067 01:53:57.039 --> 01:53:58.960 way to keep up on on everything that's out there 2068 01:53:59.000 --> 01:54:00.920 that that some people might to apply in order to 2069 01:54:00.960 --> 01:54:05.119 have a functioning life. Otherwise it is it's it's you 2070 01:54:05.199 --> 01:54:07.039 talked about it earlier in the show, you know, I 2071 01:54:07.079 --> 01:54:10.000 mean you there, there's more than enough, And I do 2072 01:54:10.039 --> 01:54:11.479 think that's a challenge for Doe to be getting to 2073 01:54:11.520 --> 01:54:14.640 the question that asking people to pay more when now, 2074 01:54:14.680 --> 01:54:16.800 I mean there's fifty million people are kind of have 2075 01:54:16.800 --> 01:54:19.880 access to a product that people couldn't watch unless they 2076 01:54:19.960 --> 01:54:22.640 sat down and watched Twitch live. So many people couldn't 2077 01:54:22.640 --> 01:54:24.680 watch it and it was a pain to find it 2078 01:54:25.119 --> 01:54:27.880 online and or you had to watch it on delay 2079 01:54:27.920 --> 01:54:29.279 and then you're sort of out of the conversation. But 2080 01:54:29.279 --> 01:54:31.600 Impact Wrestling on Access TV, fifty million people are gonna 2081 01:54:31.600 --> 01:54:34.560 have a chance to see this on a weekly basis. 2082 01:54:34.640 --> 01:54:36.800 Added to all this other stuff, not to mention the 2083 01:54:36.880 --> 01:54:40.319 new NWA show coming up with Billy Corgan and Dave 2084 01:54:40.359 --> 01:54:43.319 Lakhana and a studio show that I'm intrigued by all. 2085 01:54:43.359 --> 01:54:46.600 I mean, MLW is out there on YouTube and on 2086 01:54:46.600 --> 01:54:49.439 on b and sports. It's just there's so many different 2087 01:54:49.439 --> 01:54:51.159 things out there and so many ways to access them. 2088 01:54:51.279 --> 01:54:53.399 And now you've got Apple TV, apples say and subscribe 2089 01:54:53.439 --> 01:54:55.279 to our TV service for four ninety nine a month 2090 01:54:55.359 --> 01:54:58.479 or free with a new iPhone. Eventually those you know, 2091 01:54:58.560 --> 01:55:00.880 five and ten dollars things add up and people start 2092 01:55:00.920 --> 01:55:03.199 making tough decisions. I don't know that wwe can squeeze 2093 01:55:03.199 --> 01:55:05.880 five more dollars out of people. And it reminds me 2094 01:55:05.960 --> 01:55:09.279 of when Linna McMahon was at the helmet and justifying 2095 01:55:09.439 --> 01:55:11.399 extra pay per views in the month and jacking up 2096 01:55:11.439 --> 01:55:13.279 the price five dollars and five dollars more than five 2097 01:55:13.319 --> 01:55:16.479 dollars more. You think these hardcore fans will pay whatever 2098 01:55:16.520 --> 01:55:19.479 to get whatever, but eventually there's a saturation point and 2099 01:55:19.520 --> 01:55:22.199 they just sort of it loses its specialness. That that 2100 01:55:22.359 --> 01:55:25.640 sense of something being rare or hard to get makes 2101 01:55:25.680 --> 01:55:28.199 it a lot more attractive. So I think it's I 2102 01:55:28.199 --> 01:55:30.119 think they're I think they might be a little late. 2103 01:55:30.159 --> 01:55:31.039 I'm trying to charge more. 2104 01:55:31.720 --> 01:55:36.399 Yeah, I just I'm curious to see what they think 2105 01:55:37.439 --> 01:55:39.880 will make me want to pay that more money. I 2106 01:55:39.920 --> 01:55:43.279 don't know that they have something that they can offer 2107 01:55:43.720 --> 01:55:46.199 that I would pay more money to see. 2108 01:55:46.319 --> 01:55:48.399 I mean to get NXT live on USA. Now that 2109 01:55:48.439 --> 01:55:51.279 takes something away already that I think is going to 2110 01:55:51.319 --> 01:55:52.680 cause some people to think I don't know if I 2111 01:55:52.720 --> 01:55:55.159 need the network, I like, I want to get Takeover Specials, 2112 01:55:55.159 --> 01:55:57.319 but maybe I'll wait to get the free month when 2113 01:55:57.359 --> 01:56:00.279 one really jumps out that I need. But I yeah, 2114 01:56:00.319 --> 01:56:02.520 I just I mean, you're taking NXT away as an 2115 01:56:02.520 --> 01:56:04.119 exploded sort of it was on Hulu. But you know, 2116 01:56:05.000 --> 01:56:08.079 I don't. I just don't think there are people say, oh, 2117 01:56:08.079 --> 01:56:09.600 TV ratings don't matter because all the money, all the 2118 01:56:09.600 --> 01:56:11.880 money they're getting from all these places. It does matter 2119 01:56:11.920 --> 01:56:14.560 in the sense that it's it is the temperature gauge 2120 01:56:14.560 --> 01:56:16.760 of how enthusiastic your fan base is to then spend 2121 01:56:16.800 --> 01:56:19.199 money in other ways. And it's pretty cold right now. 2122 01:56:19.960 --> 01:56:24.159 Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, if the incentive is 2123 01:56:24.199 --> 01:56:27.880 gonna be uh oh, you can watch Progress or Evolve 2124 01:56:28.079 --> 01:56:30.920 or whatever on the network, It's like if I wanted 2125 01:56:30.960 --> 01:56:34.239 to watch Progress and Evolved, I could already be watching. Yeah, 2126 01:56:34.279 --> 01:56:36.239 you know, I mean it's the fact is is I 2127 01:56:36.239 --> 01:56:38.800 don't even have enough time to watch the things that 2128 01:56:38.880 --> 01:56:41.640 I do want to watch, you know, Yeah, I mean 2129 01:56:41.640 --> 01:56:44.720 it and this, I mean, it's just it goes back 2130 01:56:44.760 --> 01:56:47.199 to like this idea, like Vincmickman, it's just out of 2131 01:56:47.239 --> 01:56:50.760 touch on a lot of levels. And the TV viewing 2132 01:56:51.800 --> 01:56:56.479 and internet habits is just the greatest example, like the 2133 01:56:56.520 --> 01:56:58.880 idea of all, right, well we're gonna put NXT on 2134 01:56:59.039 --> 01:57:02.000 USA up against AW and that's going to be our 2135 01:57:02.039 --> 01:57:05.520 way to combat it. And it's like, well, I don't 2136 01:57:05.560 --> 01:57:09.039 see that making a difference to me because I'm going 2137 01:57:09.079 --> 01:57:13.399 to watch AW and then on Thursday n XC is 2138 01:57:13.439 --> 01:57:16.920 going to be on your streaming thing that's on demand, right, 2139 01:57:17.119 --> 01:57:22.079 doesn't not the deal? So like this isn't It's not 2140 01:57:22.279 --> 01:57:25.560 nineteen ninety eight anymore, Like I don't have to choose 2141 01:57:25.640 --> 01:57:33.600 between Like like here's the thing that where WCW screwed 2142 01:57:33.680 --> 01:57:37.640 up in my household because I realized, oh, because well, 2143 01:57:37.640 --> 01:57:40.239 first of all, if I was so inclined, I had 2144 01:57:40.279 --> 01:57:42.760 a VCR and another cable box in the basement. I 2145 01:57:42.760 --> 01:57:45.479 could just tape one and watch the other. You know, 2146 01:57:47.279 --> 01:57:50.520 Nitro had a replay on it like one or two 2147 01:57:50.600 --> 01:57:52.760 in the morning. So I was like, oh great, I'll 2148 01:57:52.800 --> 01:57:55.439 watch RAW, put a tape in the VCR, go out, 2149 01:57:55.640 --> 01:57:59.600 come back watch. Like this idea like oh well I 2150 01:57:59.600 --> 01:58:03.960 have to watch live is gone like that that is 2151 01:58:05.079 --> 01:58:07.880 there's no like if you want to be if you weren't. 2152 01:58:07.840 --> 01:58:09.720 If you want to live watch with your friends on Twitter. 2153 01:58:09.760 --> 01:58:12.640 That's that's kind of the remaining incentive beyond that, Yeah, 2154 01:58:12.800 --> 01:58:13.920 time management, it takes over. 2155 01:58:14.000 --> 01:58:17.720 Yeah, I mean there's no there's no reason to watch 2156 01:58:17.760 --> 01:58:21.600 anything live anymore unless you just absolutely have to watch 2157 01:58:21.640 --> 01:58:22.159 it live. 2158 01:58:22.960 --> 01:58:24.640 You know, Well, if you want to call the Waight 2159 01:58:24.720 --> 01:58:28.079 Keller Pro Wrestling post show and be part of the conversation, sure, 2160 01:58:28.279 --> 01:58:30.039 then you want to watch it live or maybe start 2161 01:58:30.039 --> 01:58:31.800 an hour late and speed through it. But you know, 2162 01:58:32.039 --> 01:58:34.960 I mean, honestly though, like that, it's it's that that's 2163 01:58:35.039 --> 01:58:36.560 kind of the level we're at in terms of watching 2164 01:58:36.600 --> 01:58:40.399 stuff live, because I mean when Netflix dropped House of 2165 01:58:40.439 --> 01:58:42.560 Cards and like the whole season right there, I was like, 2166 01:58:42.640 --> 01:58:45.399 what are they doing? Like and now it's just that's 2167 01:58:45.439 --> 01:58:48.319 what people expect, you know, like just watch it. I'll 2168 01:58:48.319 --> 01:58:50.479 watch it when I want. I'll either binge or I'll 2169 01:58:50.520 --> 01:58:52.600 wait to hear if it's good or whatever. You know, 2170 01:58:52.640 --> 01:58:54.000 wrestling is a little different. You don't want to wait 2171 01:58:54.000 --> 01:58:57.760 too long. But yeah, the delayed watching is standard practice 2172 01:58:57.800 --> 01:59:00.399 now for people. And obviously that's part of the reasons 2173 01:59:00.399 --> 01:59:03.279 the ratings are down. But WWE's making all their money 2174 01:59:03.279 --> 01:59:05.960 from Fox and WC Universal because they want live viewership, 2175 01:59:06.319 --> 01:59:08.520 so w B needs to figure out how to serve 2176 01:59:08.600 --> 01:59:10.319 them and not just wave the white flag and say 2177 01:59:10.319 --> 01:59:12.600 no one does that anymore. And I just don't get 2178 01:59:12.600 --> 01:59:14.640 the sense from Vince or even the brass there that 2179 01:59:14.680 --> 01:59:17.800 they've fully figured out, you know, how important it is 2180 01:59:17.840 --> 01:59:20.439 to get people who care about being live. But I 2181 01:59:20.479 --> 01:59:23.119 also get the conundrum of putting NXT on USA and 2182 01:59:23.119 --> 01:59:26.680 then taking it away from network subscribers. So it's it's tough. 2183 01:59:26.880 --> 01:59:30.039 It's a learning curve for everybody. Okay. Another email Chris 2184 01:59:30.159 --> 01:59:32.720 from Buffalo, New York. Another VP member, Matt, is there 2185 01:59:32.720 --> 01:59:35.319 a drastic difference in writing for college humor skits and 2186 01:59:35.319 --> 01:59:38.399 things along those lines in comparison to writing for WWE. 2187 01:59:38.520 --> 01:59:41.479 This is a serious question. WWE seems to have a 2188 01:59:41.560 --> 01:59:44.159 joke of a writing staff or easily ten plus years 2189 01:59:44.199 --> 01:59:46.960 thanks as always in go VIP. I don't quite get 2190 01:59:47.000 --> 01:59:48.159 the question, but he addressed the two. 2191 01:59:50.239 --> 01:59:52.840 I don't know if I understand the question either. I mean, well, 2192 01:59:52.880 --> 01:59:55.000 first of all, the writing team of WWE is not 2193 01:59:55.039 --> 01:59:55.359 a joke. 2194 01:59:55.399 --> 02:00:00.720 They're They're great, I think Vince McMahon and is where 2195 02:00:00.720 --> 02:00:03.720 the buck stops. I think people yeah have figured that out. 2196 02:00:03.720 --> 02:00:06.880 Who listened to this show usually. Yeah, I mean, I mean, 2197 02:00:07.000 --> 02:00:08.960 obviously there's writers who don't know what they're doing who 2198 02:00:09.000 --> 02:00:10.239 come along every once in a while, and I don't 2199 02:00:10.239 --> 02:00:12.199 think they make it up the chain and last. And 2200 02:00:12.520 --> 02:00:15.359 there's we know from interviewing people like you and Gulls 2201 02:00:15.359 --> 02:00:17.920 and others from the past fifteen years, there's a massive 2202 02:00:17.960 --> 02:00:20.239 frustration because there's people of wrestling fans who want to 2203 02:00:20.680 --> 02:00:24.560 who just end up realizing, Vince McMann is, you're writing 2204 02:00:24.600 --> 02:00:27.199 for one person and all these good ideas and good 2205 02:00:27.279 --> 02:00:29.199 concepts get lost in the process. 2206 02:00:29.680 --> 02:00:36.039 Yeah. No, I mean, the only difference there's I don't know. 2207 02:00:36.399 --> 02:00:40.960 I mean as far as writing sketch comedy, it's it 2208 02:00:41.159 --> 02:00:50.039 just depends on well, there's differences and there's similarities. But 2209 02:00:50.159 --> 02:00:55.760 I mean for writing sketches is it's kind of one 2210 02:00:55.840 --> 02:01:00.159 and done. Whereas wrestling, when you're writing for ww WE, 2211 02:01:01.239 --> 02:01:04.479 it's a little more like comic book writing. Not that 2212 02:01:04.520 --> 02:01:07.159 I've written books, but just being being a fan of 2213 02:01:07.199 --> 02:01:13.079 both and having written for WWE, is it's this endless mythology, 2214 02:01:14.159 --> 02:01:19.039 you know, it's the storyline that has no end, whereas 2215 02:01:19.239 --> 02:01:20.319 a sketch. 2216 02:01:22.039 --> 02:01:22.159 Is. 2217 02:01:22.680 --> 02:01:26.319 With comedy, writing is your right. I mean, the difference 2218 02:01:26.399 --> 02:01:28.560 is you have to write a beginning of middle and 2219 02:01:28.640 --> 02:01:33.720 an end, whereas with WWE, the programs, the storylines in 2220 02:01:33.760 --> 02:01:36.039 and of themselves have a beginning of middle and an end. 2221 02:01:36.640 --> 02:01:43.319 You know, the rivalry starts because Hulk Hogan uh is, 2222 02:01:44.439 --> 02:01:47.399 you know, sweet on Miss Elizabeth or at least that, 2223 02:01:47.720 --> 02:01:49.680 So that's the beginning. In the middle is you know, 2224 02:01:50.119 --> 02:01:52.319 you've got listivil eyes in your heart for you know, 2225 02:01:52.319 --> 02:01:54.960 blah blah blah, and then the end is WrestleMania five. 2226 02:01:57.359 --> 02:02:04.199 But the the similarity is that we with comedy is 2227 02:02:04.239 --> 02:02:08.960 the same as with any storytelling. I think the the 2228 02:02:09.000 --> 02:02:11.920 similarity is we're building tension and then we need to 2229 02:02:11.960 --> 02:02:15.359 relieve that tension, whereas like the build of a match 2230 02:02:15.600 --> 02:02:18.479 is you're just building incentives to want to see the match, 2231 02:02:19.359 --> 02:02:24.239 whereas with the match itself, I think is more similar 2232 02:02:24.319 --> 02:02:28.159 to the sketch writing because that you have that beginning 2233 02:02:28.199 --> 02:02:30.439 the middle and then and and you have that like 2234 02:02:30.560 --> 02:02:33.439 take let's take like a standard WWE match, which is 2235 02:02:33.479 --> 02:02:36.600 the Hull Cogan match, which is, you know, you get 2236 02:02:36.600 --> 02:02:38.920 some back and forth and then you get heat on 2237 02:02:38.960 --> 02:02:41.960 the baby face and you're pouring heat on the baby face, 2238 02:02:42.039 --> 02:02:44.720 and then you just finally get the baby Face come back, 2239 02:02:45.079 --> 02:02:47.640 and then the Babyface wins. Every Hull Cogan match is 2240 02:02:47.680 --> 02:02:50.359 the same thing. It's always a little back and forth. 2241 02:02:50.439 --> 02:02:53.680 Then something happens Boom, Hulk is down, and Hulk is 2242 02:02:53.720 --> 02:02:56.319 down the whole time, and then suddenly, all of a sudden, 2243 02:02:56.319 --> 02:02:59.840 the Hulk just gets a miraculous breath of fresh air. 2244 02:03:00.439 --> 02:03:03.279 He starts fighting his way out. You know, that's that's 2245 02:03:03.600 --> 02:03:06.600 basically comedy writing. Is you have a game, and you 2246 02:03:06.600 --> 02:03:08.760 figure out what the game is, and then you go through, 2247 02:03:08.880 --> 02:03:12.159 like like an SNL sketch. You see what the game is. 2248 02:03:12.199 --> 02:03:14.520 They set it up at the very beginning, and then 2249 02:03:14.560 --> 02:03:16.880 you just kind of go through all the permutations of 2250 02:03:17.520 --> 02:03:20.319 how how many different ways can we tell this joke 2251 02:03:20.960 --> 02:03:25.159 until we've exhausted it and now we've come to the end. 2252 02:03:25.359 --> 02:03:27.720 You know, how much heat can we get on Hull 2253 02:03:27.760 --> 02:03:33.560 Cogan before we've You know, there's either there's either two 2254 02:03:33.600 --> 02:03:36.159 ways that it can end. One he has to come 2255 02:03:36.199 --> 02:03:38.640 back and now we're all happy, or the other way 2256 02:03:38.720 --> 02:03:40.880 is that we've gotten too much heat on him and 2257 02:03:40.920 --> 02:03:44.199 I either become bored as an audience member or I'm 2258 02:03:44.279 --> 02:03:47.279 starting to lose faith in my hero that I'm like, gosh, 2259 02:03:47.319 --> 02:03:49.960 he you know, what's he going to do to get 2260 02:03:49.960 --> 02:03:52.600 out of this? So it's the same thing with like 2261 02:03:52.680 --> 02:03:56.960 sketch writing of like you know, building building to a 2262 02:03:57.279 --> 02:04:00.279 a a desirable client. 2263 02:04:00.479 --> 02:04:09.039 You know, longing for some nostalgia or maybe you want 2264 02:04:09.039 --> 02:04:12.600 to learn some wrestling history. Don't miss the Nineties Past 2265 02:04:12.680 --> 02:04:15.680 cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. 2266 02:04:16.239 --> 02:04:19.039 Alex and Patrick will transport you thirty years into the 2267 02:04:19.079 --> 02:04:22.159 past by taking you through the Torch issue from that 2268 02:04:22.359 --> 02:04:26.119 very week. Follow news from the WWF and WCW and 2269 02:04:26.199 --> 02:04:29.039 all the happenings from across the wrestling industry in real 2270 02:04:29.079 --> 02:04:32.600 time as the Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's 2271 02:04:32.640 --> 02:04:35.640 the Nineties Pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch 2272 02:04:35.800 --> 02:04:36.640 Daily Cast Feed. 2273 02:04:46.760 --> 02:04:49.159 All right, Matt, I got in on this note. I 2274 02:04:49.239 --> 02:04:53.960 want a prediction Week one NXT on USA, what's the rating? 2275 02:04:54.199 --> 02:04:57.920 And then Week three NXT versus Week ONEAW on October 2276 02:04:58.840 --> 02:05:02.600 October second, I think what who wins? And is it 2277 02:05:02.600 --> 02:05:04.079 by a wide margin or a narrow margin? 2278 02:05:05.439 --> 02:05:08.039 NXT Week one, I think the rating will. 2279 02:05:07.840 --> 02:05:12.399 Be SmackDown this week for listeners. Comparison was one point 2280 02:05:12.479 --> 02:05:15.119 five to five and it was up. Their ten week 2281 02:05:15.199 --> 02:05:17.720 average is one point five two, so that's kind of 2282 02:05:18.319 --> 02:05:19.920 that's what they've been doing on Tuesdays in the USA. 2283 02:05:20.760 --> 02:05:26.239 I could see it being eight eighty, eight hundred and 2284 02:05:26.319 --> 02:05:33.279 eighty thousand, and I think that AEW is going to 2285 02:05:33.319 --> 02:05:36.800 win the first week for sure, no matter how many 2286 02:05:38.000 --> 02:05:42.479 hot shots, you know, all all the bells and whistles 2287 02:05:42.479 --> 02:05:45.800 they can pull out. Because I think that there has 2288 02:05:45.880 --> 02:05:50.920 been a there is a degree of overlap. I think 2289 02:05:50.920 --> 02:05:53.720 that there are you know, people like us who will 2290 02:05:53.720 --> 02:05:56.920 watch everything, who just like pro wrestling. I think that 2291 02:05:57.000 --> 02:06:00.640 there is another group that just watches w and that's 2292 02:06:00.680 --> 02:06:02.560 all they know and that's all they will ever care about. 2293 02:06:03.079 --> 02:06:06.960 I think that there is another group that got burned 2294 02:06:06.960 --> 02:06:10.399 out in WWE, is sick of it and is gravitating 2295 02:06:10.439 --> 02:06:15.239 towards something new. But I think that there is a 2296 02:06:15.399 --> 02:06:20.960 very young, different audience that has been turned on to 2297 02:06:22.439 --> 02:06:29.560 either New Japan or PWG or being the elite. There 2298 02:06:29.720 --> 02:06:33.800 is a new audience that AW has built that has 2299 02:06:34.039 --> 02:06:37.920 cultivated that these are the people that bought all those 2300 02:06:37.920 --> 02:06:42.039 Bullet Club shirts at hot Topic. I mean, I think 2301 02:06:42.079 --> 02:06:48.520 that they have kept into a new audience that is 2302 02:06:48.640 --> 02:06:51.359 not a casual fan. I think they have created a 2303 02:06:51.439 --> 02:06:57.560 new wrestling fan who isn't necessarily interested in WWE, who 2304 02:06:57.640 --> 02:07:02.439 has discovered this brand new thing. And I think that 2305 02:07:02.439 --> 02:07:06.920 that is I'm on the edge of my seat to see. Yeah, 2306 02:07:07.000 --> 02:07:08.720 what it's going to mean for TV ratings. 2307 02:07:08.920 --> 02:07:12.239 It's so wide open. I mean, nobody knows, and whatever happens, 2308 02:07:12.239 --> 02:07:13.680 there is going to be a certain percent who go, 2309 02:07:13.800 --> 02:07:15.039 of course, and someone has to be like, well, of 2310 02:07:15.079 --> 02:07:16.720 course Ayway's gonna win by two to one margin. Of 2311 02:07:16.760 --> 02:07:18.119 course that next you win by two to one margin, 2312 02:07:18.279 --> 02:07:20.439 that would behind him, promoting him. Yeah, we'll see Matt, 2313 02:07:20.479 --> 02:07:23.960 Thank you so much. Time flies and love getting your 2314 02:07:23.960 --> 02:07:25.560 insight in stories and. 2315 02:07:25.520 --> 02:07:28.039 Yeah, so I always love doing it. Thanks for having me. 2316 02:07:27.960 --> 02:07:32.439 At McCarthy redhead everywhere on social media. We watch wrestl Right, 2317 02:07:32.560 --> 02:07:34.880 we watch wrestling. Go subscribe right now on your podcast app. 2318 02:07:35.159 --> 02:07:37.600 Thanks Matt's right that we watch wrestling podcast. Check it 2319 02:07:37.640 --> 02:07:40.720 out and you can check out the Pro Wrestling Fans 2320 02:07:40.800 --> 02:07:48.479 Single on Spotify or go to my website McCarthy. Uh 2321 02:07:48.520 --> 02:07:50.760 this is Matt McCarthy dot com and you can order 2322 02:07:50.800 --> 02:07:53.000 a seven inch single. I have a couple left and 2323 02:07:53.159 --> 02:07:54.279 uh yeah, yeah, yeah. 2324 02:07:54.199 --> 02:07:56.760 Yeah, thanks, We'll talk to you soon, looking forward to 2325 02:07:56.840 --> 02:07:57.800 what comes up in the next month. 2326 02:07:57.800 --> 02:07:59.439 Here, all right, Letterbud. 2327 02:08:00.239 --> 02:08:02.760 If you enjoyed my conversation today with Matt McCarthy, you 2328 02:08:02.840 --> 02:08:06.680 need to go VIP and click immediately on the special 2329 02:08:06.720 --> 02:08:11.159 section on our VIP website sidebar featuring over one hundred 2330 02:08:11.239 --> 02:08:14.960 interviews that I've conducted with over a dozen x WWE 2331 02:08:15.039 --> 02:08:17.880 creative team members, dating back to Vince Russo when I 2332 02:08:17.880 --> 02:08:21.960 ad Ferrara, through the two thousands and into the twenty 2333 02:08:22.000 --> 02:08:25.279 tens or the teens, whatever we call these this decade 2334 02:08:26.359 --> 02:08:29.640 and fascinating long form interviews, all kinds of behind the 2335 02:08:29.640 --> 02:08:34.520 scenes insights on some of the most fascinating personalities, controversial angles, 2336 02:08:34.960 --> 02:08:38.680 and big time matches and events. You will learn as 2337 02:08:38.760 --> 02:08:41.479 much insider info from that as you will from any 2338 02:08:41.520 --> 02:08:46.239 wrestling book, and probably more than listening to wrestler hosted podcasts, 2339 02:08:46.239 --> 02:08:50.600 because the writers go behind the scenes on Vince McMahon 2340 02:08:50.640 --> 02:08:52.479 a lot more than wrestlers are willing to, especially when 2341 02:08:52.479 --> 02:08:55.399 they're out of the business, and they also go into 2342 02:08:55.439 --> 02:08:58.760 the creation to take you back into the kitchen. It's 2343 02:08:58.800 --> 02:09:00.800 not about how the plate looked and how people enjoy 2344 02:09:00.840 --> 02:09:03.640 the food. It's about how the food was made and 2345 02:09:03.760 --> 02:09:06.520 all the arguing amongst chefs, and so it's a whole 2346 02:09:06.520 --> 02:09:10.600 different perspective. There's no bigger collection of creative team members 2347 02:09:11.479 --> 02:09:15.520 from WWE revealing all kinds of inside information on what 2348 02:09:15.520 --> 02:09:19.319 went on behind the scenes and just opinions on different 2349 02:09:19.319 --> 02:09:22.000 things that happened, and also their take on current events 2350 02:09:22.000 --> 02:09:24.680 since they left the company. In surprising directions, things have 2351 02:09:24.840 --> 02:09:27.960 gone since their departures. So that's one of just like 2352 02:09:28.119 --> 02:09:30.800 an endless array of really cool things that happen when 2353 02:09:30.800 --> 02:09:33.520 you go VIP that get unlocked and are available to you. 2354 02:09:34.000 --> 02:09:36.760 The Weight Keller Podcasts AD free, plug free on podcast 2355 02:09:36.760 --> 02:09:40.560 feeds on iPhone and Android are AD free mobile side 2356 02:09:40.640 --> 02:09:42.800 or AD free desktop site. Thirty plus years of back 2357 02:09:42.800 --> 02:09:45.239 issues of the Prosing Torch Newsletter retro radio shows from 2358 02:09:45.279 --> 02:09:48.760 the nineties. A weekly Promissing Torch Newsletter. New issue out 2359 02:09:48.760 --> 02:09:51.680 this week with some great content and in depth NXT 2360 02:09:51.920 --> 02:09:56.199 Roster Overview three or three plus pages of in depth 2361 02:09:56.439 --> 02:09:58.920 breakdown of the whole roster each tier, Men, Women, tag 2362 02:09:58.960 --> 02:10:02.279 teams by Kelly Else also callings from Greg Parks and 2363 02:10:02.319 --> 02:10:06.560 Bruce Mitchell. My reports on Raw SmackDown and NXT from 2364 02:10:06.600 --> 02:10:09.960 this past week with expanded analysis, the Torch news Wire 2365 02:10:10.319 --> 02:10:13.520 and much more so to go vip PW torch dot 2366 02:10:13.560 --> 02:10:17.560 com slash go vi ip, and you can also get 2367 02:10:17.600 --> 02:10:20.119 information on getting a paper copy of that newsletter delivered 2368 02:10:20.159 --> 02:10:22.239 to your home address if if you want to read 2369 02:10:22.239 --> 02:10:24.399 it on paper rather than a digital PDF or all 2370 02:10:24.399 --> 02:10:28.119 text version with a VIP membership. For information on home delivery, 2371 02:10:28.199 --> 02:10:32.119 go to PW torch dot com slash Paper Copy. So 2372 02:10:32.239 --> 02:10:35.880 PW torch dot com slash go VIP and PW torch 2373 02:10:35.920 --> 02:10:39.239 dot Com Slash Paper Copy for your two options. You 2374 02:10:39.239 --> 02:10:41.880 can subscribe to one or the other or both. That'd 2375 02:10:41.920 --> 02:10:45.199 be great, all right. So if you missed yesterday's Thursday Flagship, 2376 02:10:45.239 --> 02:10:46.960 Jason Paul joined me for a couple hours and we 2377 02:10:47.000 --> 02:10:49.560 went in depth on everything going on this week and 2378 02:10:49.560 --> 02:10:53.000 everything coming up in October. Just it's it's it's getting 2379 02:10:53.000 --> 02:10:54.520 I say it all the time now it's just it's 2380 02:10:54.680 --> 02:10:56.600 buckle up. It's gonna get crazy. It's going to be 2381 02:10:57.079 --> 02:10:59.199 so much fun in October, and we're gonna be here 2382 02:10:59.199 --> 02:11:00.680 with you every step of the way. I hope you're 2383 02:11:00.720 --> 02:11:04.520 with us, So subscribe if you haven't, and check out 2384 02:11:04.560 --> 02:11:07.239 our post show, the Red Loco brand, the Way Keller 2385 02:11:07.239 --> 02:11:10.279 Prog Wrestling post show that includes the post shows on 2386 02:11:10.359 --> 02:11:12.680 Ron SmackDown this week and next week it includes Rock 2387 02:11:12.760 --> 02:11:17.279 SmackDown and NXT on USA Network Slash WWE Network, and 2388 02:11:17.319 --> 02:11:18.840 then we're just a few weeks away now listen, a 2389 02:11:18.880 --> 02:11:22.880 few weeks away from the first AEW versus NXT battle, 2390 02:11:22.880 --> 02:11:26.199 which is overshadowing but not necessarily more important than what 2391 02:11:26.399 --> 02:11:30.640 WWW does on their premiere Fox episode of SmackDown. The 2392 02:11:30.680 --> 02:11:36.119 Anniversary Show. Probably big changes, big matches, big names, a 2393 02:11:36.159 --> 02:11:39.720 new look, certainly a new logo. Just an amazing way 2394 02:11:39.760 --> 02:11:42.239 coming up the first week of October, So great time 2395 02:11:42.279 --> 02:11:44.720 to go, VIP. We hope you will either way stick 2396 02:11:44.760 --> 02:11:47.880 around and we'll go on this journey together. Thanks for 2397 02:11:47.880 --> 02:11:50.720 Matt McCarthy. Always fascinating talking to him. I love the 2398 02:11:50.760 --> 02:11:53.319 vinsment man stories I learn every time I talk to him, 2399 02:11:53.800 --> 02:11:56.119 and it's just fun getting his perspective as someone who's 2400 02:11:56.119 --> 02:12:00.960 been in stand up comedy and acting and also just 2401 02:12:01.119 --> 02:12:03.359 a longtime wrestling fan, someone who's worked behind the scenes 2402 02:12:03.359 --> 02:12:04.880 and followed it his whole life before and after we 2403 02:12:04.920 --> 02:12:08.239 worked for WWE. Just there's nobody with that set of 2404 02:12:09.039 --> 02:12:13.560 credentials or bullet points on his resume. No one matches 2405 02:12:13.600 --> 02:12:16.680 that it's a unique set, and for him to come 2406 02:12:16.680 --> 02:12:18.479 on here and talk for two hours and share his 2407 02:12:18.560 --> 02:12:21.079 opinions and insight and backstage stories is always a blast. 2408 02:12:21.119 --> 02:12:23.640 And many more of those interviews are available when you 2409 02:12:23.680 --> 02:12:27.720 go VIP and our special Creative Team collection. Okay, follow 2410 02:12:27.720 --> 02:12:30.359 me on Twitter at the Wade Keller. Follow our brand 2411 02:12:30.520 --> 02:12:34.359 at pw torch on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. Be sure 2412 02:12:34.399 --> 02:12:37.359 you're checking out petewtorch dot com for breaking news, my 2413 02:12:37.439 --> 02:12:41.640 live coverage of Raw SmackDown, wwbpay Perviews, AW pay Perviews, 2414 02:12:41.680 --> 02:12:46.239 and AWNXT coming up, plus other TV reports from other contributors, 2415 02:12:46.319 --> 02:12:50.319 other editorial features, flashbacks, and so much more. If you 2416 02:12:50.359 --> 02:12:52.840 attend a live wrestling event, send us a report at 2417 02:12:52.880 --> 02:12:56.359 our catch all email for news and results, pw Torch 2418 02:12:56.439 --> 02:12:59.600 at pw torch dot com easy to remember if you 2419 02:12:59.640 --> 02:13:01.880 have new or results. If you want to type up 2420 02:13:02.560 --> 02:13:05.520 what happened at a live event you attended, WWE or 2421 02:13:05.560 --> 02:13:08.560 otherwise any promotion, send it along and we'll publish it 2422 02:13:08.640 --> 02:13:12.279 on pewtorch dot com so it's out there in cyberspace forever. 2423 02:13:12.560 --> 02:13:15.039 You can get your opinions and help contribute to our 2424 02:13:15.279 --> 02:13:17.640 knowledge of what's going on all around the country every 2425 02:13:17.720 --> 02:13:21.680 night of the week. That's Pwtorch at pekwtorch dot com. 2426 02:13:21.760 --> 02:13:23.239 If you want to be an on site correspondent for 2427 02:13:23.279 --> 02:13:26.680 future episodes of Ross SmackDown, a w or NXT on 2428 02:13:26.720 --> 02:13:29.159 the way Keller progressing post show, the email for that 2429 02:13:29.319 --> 02:13:32.960 is the email for this podcast, Wade Keller Podcast at 2430 02:13:33.000 --> 02:13:38.000 pwtorch dot com. Weadkeller Podcast dot pewtorch dot com. Put 2431 02:13:38.000 --> 02:13:39.920 the date in the city in the subject line so 2432 02:13:39.960 --> 02:13:42.600 we know what you're emailing about and we could be 2433 02:13:42.640 --> 02:13:46.199 in touch. All right, that'll do it, Thanks everybody, and 2434 02:13:46.439 --> 02:14:09.159 until next time. Wadkeller signing off. I invite you to 2435 02:14:09.199 --> 02:14:11.800 email the show with feedback or questions or comments. That 2436 02:14:11.880 --> 02:14:16.600 email address is Wadekeller Podcast at petwtorch dot com. That's 2437 02:14:16.680 --> 02:14:20.000 Wadekeller Podcast at PW torch dot com. Also welcome your 2438 02:14:20.000 --> 02:14:22.640 feedback on Twitter. You can follow us on Twitter at 2439 02:14:22.640 --> 02:14:26.600 PW torch and follow me at the Wadekeller That's at 2440 02:14:26.600 --> 02:14:29.279 PW torch and at the Wadekeller. 2441 02:14:31.239 --> 02:14:34.239 Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me. 2442 02:14:34.399 --> 02:14:37.960 Jason Powell host them the three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. 2443 02:14:38.319 --> 02:14:40.520 Each week he'll hear the latest news and analysis for 2444 02:14:40.680 --> 02:14:42.720 me and my team at Pro Wrestling dot need along 2445 02:14:42.760 --> 02:14:45.720 with other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling 2446 02:14:45.720 --> 02:14:49.079 Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in 2447 02:14:49.079 --> 02:14:53.000 the pro wrestling industry. Subscribe and Itunestitcher, downcast, and all 2448 02:14:53.039 --> 02:14:56.560 your favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly at PW 2449 02:14:56.600 --> 02:15:04.680 boom dot com. Once again, that's PW boom. 2450 02:14:59.720 --> 02:15:04.000 Dot Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you know 2451 02:15:04.039 --> 02:15:07.119 we also have a website pw toorch dot com. Daily 2452 02:15:07.199 --> 02:15:10.880 news updates, editorials, and my live TV coverage covering Raw, 2453 02:15:10.920 --> 02:15:14.399 Dynamite and SmackDown and my live pay per view coverage 2454 02:15:14.399 --> 02:15:17.840 for WWE and AEW. Create a tab or bookmark make 2455 02:15:17.840 --> 02:15:20.199 it a daily stop. Visit us throughout the day every 2456 02:15:20.279 --> 02:15:22.680 day to keep up on breaking news and more. That's 2457 02:15:22.800 --> 02:15:25.720 pw torch dot com. 2458 02:15:26.039 --> 02:15:29.039 Meet an extra dose of positivity in your wrestling podcasts. 2459 02:15:29.319 --> 02:15:32.439 Will come join me Alan forel Over in the Progress 2460 02:15:32.520 --> 02:15:36.079 Paradise at pterwew Torch VIP as we mask on the 2461 02:15:36.119 --> 02:15:38.800 bright side of wrestling and focus on some of the 2462 02:15:38.840 --> 02:15:43.199 great matches and shows from around the world, be it US, Japan, 2463 02:15:43.600 --> 02:15:44.840 Europe or Mexico. 2464 02:15:45.399 --> 02:15:46.119 There's always a. 2465 02:15:46.039 --> 02:15:48.840 Place for wrestlings past and the Paradise too, and we've 2466 02:15:48.840 --> 02:15:51.640 done fun historical shows such as the We Love Liger 2467 02:15:51.760 --> 02:15:56.159 series celebrating the glorious career of Jusian Thunderliger and our 2468 02:15:56.199 --> 02:15:58.479 I Was there When shows where our guests will join 2469 02:15:58.560 --> 02:16:00.920 me to talk about a classic bout that they were 2470 02:16:00.920 --> 02:16:04.319 in attends for. 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We hope you 2483 02:16:43.360 --> 02:16:46.319 think We've earned that score with our fast turnaround times 2484 02:16:46.360 --> 02:16:50.079 and our quantity and quality of wrestling analysis throughout the week. 2485 02:16:50.200 --> 02:16:52.319 So take a moment out for us and do us 2486 02:16:52.319 --> 02:16:55.120 favor and give us a five star rating at Apple Podcasts. 2487 02:16:55.120 --> 02:16:58.000 That helps us on search returns and helps us grow. 2488 02:16:58.319 --> 02:16:59.760 And if you want, you can add a few comments 2489 02:16:59.760 --> 02:17:02.239 about what you like about the programs in the comments section. 2490 02:17:02.399 --> 02:17:03.120 Thank you so much. 2491 02:17:06.639 --> 02:17:10.840 In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and 2492 02:17:10.959 --> 02:17:14.239 ultimately the brand you see today. On the Torch VIP 2493 02:17:14.479 --> 02:17:18.559 podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be taking a weekly 2494 02:17:18.600 --> 02:17:21.120 look at this page in NXT's early history. 2495 02:17:22.000 --> 02:17:25.200 Join Kelly Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks 2496 02:17:25.280 --> 02:17:28.000 NXT every Saturday as we go eight years back to 2497 02:17:28.079 --> 02:17:30.799 the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they 2498 02:17:30.799 --> 02:17:34.680 did or didn't work out exclusively for PW Torch VIP members. 2499 02:17:35.760 --> 02:17:38.120 A PW Torch Vip membership doesn't just give you add 2500 02:17:38.120 --> 02:17:39.840 free access to these shows and a ton of other 2501 02:17:39.959 --> 02:17:42.559 VIP exclusive podcasts throughout the week, but you also gain 2502 02:17:42.639 --> 02:17:46.239 access to our unmatched vast library of wrestling history, our 2503 02:17:46.239 --> 02:17:49.239 contemporaneous week to week coverage through our progressing Torch weekly 2504 02:17:49.239 --> 02:17:52.000 newsletters dating back to the late nineteen eighties, along with 2505 02:17:52.040 --> 02:17:55.559 streaming and download access to hundreds of retro radio shows 2506 02:17:55.559 --> 02:17:58.239 from the nineteen nineties, including some of my interviews with 2507 02:17:58.360 --> 02:18:02.159 wrestling's top newsmakers in the nine and also our podcast 2508 02:18:02.280 --> 02:18:04.440 library dating back to the year two thousand and three. 2509 02:18:04.479 --> 02:18:08.959 There's no larger, longer spanning pro wrestling podcast library than 2510 02:18:08.959 --> 02:18:11.799 that that comes with a PW Torch VIP membership. Now 2511 02:18:11.799 --> 02:18:15.399 we're approaching twenty years of podcasting. Go VIP and dive 2512 02:18:15.440 --> 02:18:17.760 into our post pay per view roundtables are covered with 2513 02:18:17.840 --> 02:18:20.799 some of your favorite eras of wrestling, top name long 2514 02:18:20.879 --> 02:18:24.879 form interviews, and special format podcasts that we've done throughout 2515 02:18:24.920 --> 02:18:28.920 the years. PW torch dot com slash go vip. We 2516 02:18:28.959 --> 02:18:30.520 have a streamline sign up for me and you can 2517 02:18:30.520 --> 02:18:32.920 pay with PayPal or directly with your credit card or 2518 02:18:32.959 --> 02:18:35.399 debit card. In one or two minutes from right now, 2519 02:18:35.440 --> 02:18:37.760 you can be a VIP member and diving into our library. 2520 02:18:37.840 --> 02:18:40.200 PW torch dot com slash go vip