WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.760 --> 00:00:04.280 Here's another two for Golf Smarter episodes number four hundred 2 00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:08.000 thirty two and four hundred thirty three from April fifteen, 3 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:09.119 twenty fourteen. 4 00:00:09.320 --> 00:00:14.359 Welcome to Golf Smarter Mulligans, your second chance to gain 5 00:00:14.439 --> 00:00:18.000 insight and advice from the best instructors featured on the 6 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:24.039 Golf Smarter podcast. Great Golf Instruction Never gets Old. Our 7 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:28.920 interview library features hundreds of hours of game improvement conversations 8 00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:32.600 like this that are no longer available in any podcast app. 9 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:36.200 Amateur golfers miss way more than fifty percent of their 10 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:38.240 putts on the low side of the hole. The question 11 00:00:38.359 --> 00:00:41.759 is why is that. So there's several possible explanations, but 12 00:00:41.799 --> 00:00:44.039 one is if you aim at the apex, you will 13 00:00:44.039 --> 00:00:46.840 miss low And why is that? Because the apex is 14 00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:49.759 the furthest point, or the highest point on this curved 15 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:52.759 path toward the hole. But that usually happens somewhere near 16 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:55.320 the middle of the putt. In order to get the 17 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:57.600 putt to go into the hole, you've got to start 18 00:00:57.640 --> 00:01:01.960 it higher because gravity will immediately start breaking. So if 19 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:04.359 your target is the apex, to hit the apex, you've 20 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:06.879 got to start it higher than the apex because that 21 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:09.519 first half of the putt. It's going to be breaking 22 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:11.680 before it gets there. It's not like this putt goes. 23 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:14.239 Straight and then it takes a left turn at the apex. 24 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:16.719 It doesn't do that. It breaks from the instant that 25 00:01:16.799 --> 00:01:19.680 you hit it. And that's the physics of it. And 26 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:22.799 that implies that you've got to start the putt higher 27 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:25.200 than the apex in order to hit the line that 28 00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:26.719 you're visualizing into the hole. 29 00:01:31.799 --> 00:01:35.560 Putting is overrated. An introduction to golf metrics and professor 30 00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:39.840 Mark Brody. This is Golf Smarter. Welcome to the Golf 31 00:01:39.879 --> 00:01:41.280 Smarter podcast. 32 00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:43.079 Mark Fred, thanks for having me on. 33 00:01:43.120 --> 00:01:45.760 It's a pleasure, Thank you very much. I just need 34 00:01:45.799 --> 00:01:48.879 to know something as we talk about this book, Every 35 00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:52.000 Shot Counts? Have you always been a troublemaker? 36 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:56.280 I don't consider myself a trouble maker, so I'd have 37 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:57.319 to say no to that one. 38 00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:00.680 Well, I have a feeling that you are turning the 39 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:03.680 golf world on its head with this kind of information. 40 00:02:05.239 --> 00:02:08.080 Well, I'm anxious for this book to come out to 41 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:11.000 find out whether that's true or not, because I figure 42 00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:14.560 that there's people that will believe it right away, and 43 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:18.919 there's other people that are on the other side and 44 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:21.639 need some convincing and I'm wondering if I'll be able 45 00:02:21.639 --> 00:02:22.319 to convince them. 46 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:25.759 So, as we're recording this, the book will be coming 47 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:29.919 out tomorrow, but as you are listening to it, it 48 00:02:29.919 --> 00:02:31.639 has been out a couple weeks. So if you want 49 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:33.360 to pick up this book, actually you need to pick 50 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:36.919 up this book. Every Shot Counts by Mark Brody. Yeah. 51 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:39.879 I just think that, you know, I've talked to so 52 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:46.000 many different instructors about, you know, the importance of putting, 53 00:02:46.919 --> 00:02:51.240 and you know, they we even did one episode of 54 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:54.240 this show called give me ten yards ten feet closer, 55 00:02:54.319 --> 00:02:56.479 over ten yards farther every day of the week. 56 00:02:57.639 --> 00:03:02.759 Oh well, that's that's true, but it's it's pretty hard 57 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:07.000 to get to get ten feet closer on your approach shots. 58 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:11.639 Every shot ten feet closer is is going from from 59 00:03:11.719 --> 00:03:14.479 a ninety golfer to the PGA tour sometimes. 60 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:14.919 Yeah. 61 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:17.919 Well, I mean the guy who that interview was somebody 62 00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:20.560 who manufactures wedges, So why do you think he would 63 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:23.879 say that he believes his product will do that? And 64 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:27.080 actually it's a very good product. But it's just that 65 00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:33.520 we're going to call this episode and it follows in 66 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:38.960 your book Putting is overrated. Let's talk about this, this 67 00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:42.360 concept and what you're introducing here. It's so much I mean, 68 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:45.879 the easiest way to explain it is like moneyball, right, 69 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:49.560 cyber metrics for baseball. People are understand and what's happened 70 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:52.360 with the Oakland A's and you know the movie came out, 71 00:03:52.439 --> 00:04:00.159 But how they Bill James created was it cybermetrics? Ab 72 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:07.599 metrics aabermetrics, right, and it changed the way management approaches baseball, 73 00:04:07.759 --> 00:04:10.400 but with a lot of resistance. I see this going 74 00:04:10.439 --> 00:04:12.000 in that direction as well. 75 00:04:13.520 --> 00:04:14.840 Well. I hope that's the case. 76 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:18.160 That one of the things when you look at a 77 00:04:18.199 --> 00:04:20.839 tournament on TV or where you play with your friends, 78 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:23.839 you can see the score. That's what golf is about, 79 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:27.480 shooting the lowest score. But it's often not so apparent 80 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:30.600 where those score differences come from. So when one golfer 81 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:35.240 wins a tournament by five shots, you just don't know why, 82 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:38.519 Where did those five shots come from? And one of 83 00:04:38.560 --> 00:04:40.480 the goals of this book is to try and break 84 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:44.480 that down and tease out using data, what separates the 85 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.800 best golfers from average golfers, whether it's in the pro 86 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:49.199 ranks or the amateur ranks. 87 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:53.319 I'd let the audience know that we're going to do 88 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:55.160 this in two parts. The first part I'm going to 89 00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:57.079 have you explain how this works in the kind of 90 00:04:57.079 --> 00:04:59.759 information that you've gathered and what you've come up with, 91 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:03.439 and the second part will will focus on how do 92 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:06.360 it make it work for me? All right, okay, great, 93 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:11.360 So just elaborate. I'm not going to interrupt much. You 94 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:14.279 can talk as long as you want on this. Explain 95 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:20.879 how that how you figured out that putting is really 96 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:25.319 only about fifteen percent of what the total score or 97 00:05:25.399 --> 00:05:26.560 the importance of the score. 98 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:32.160 Well, i'd say, you know, fifteen percent refers to how 99 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:37.759 much of the strokes that separate the best PGA Tour 100 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:41.439 players from average PGA Tour players. That difference in score, 101 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:48.120 about fifteen percent of it comes from putting. And if 102 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:51.120 you're if you're looking over kind of a long period 103 00:05:51.120 --> 00:05:53.560 of time, if you look at tournament winners, it turns 104 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:55.639 out that putting is a little bit more important than 105 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:59.000 it explains about thirty five percent of the difference between 106 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:03.720 the winner of a tournament and the field that they're 107 00:06:03.720 --> 00:06:04.480 playing against. 108 00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:08.639 Yeah, I mean, because so often, you know, TV needs 109 00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:11.480 the drama and you'll see a guy making a putt, 110 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:15.480 or just the other day Paula Kramer made that amazing 111 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:18.120 seventy five foot putt. She needed to make it to 112 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:21.560 win if she two putts, which was fine, she ties, 113 00:06:22.279 --> 00:06:25.040 but you know that kind of drama you see, but 114 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:28.000 you don't see how it got to the point where 115 00:06:28.160 --> 00:06:30.439 she was struggling or she was behind and had to 116 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:33.439 come from behind, and it wasn't always on the putting green. 117 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:36.879 Correct Well, certainly if you think a seventy five footer 118 00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:40.240 for eagle, you had to have some help by reaching 119 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:43.600 that par five and two. So yeah, right, it's and 120 00:06:43.639 --> 00:06:46.120 that's one of the things strokes gain does. It quantifies 121 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:50.639 how much of that good score came from putting versus 122 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:54.040 how much came from the TITA greenshots. 123 00:06:55.040 --> 00:06:58.639 Right, So generally, I know, personally on my scorecard, I'll 124 00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:03.600 keep track of fairways, hit greens and regulation and how 125 00:07:03.639 --> 00:07:08.120 many putts, But that really doesn't explain to me why 126 00:07:08.199 --> 00:07:10.040 I had a ninety four. 127 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:11.800 That day exactly. 128 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:16.360 I mean, each one of those traditional stats has fundamental 129 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:20.480 fatal flaws. So if you pop up a drive one 130 00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:23.680 hundred yards into the fairway versus you hit another one 131 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:26.759 two hundred and fifty yards in the fairway. You both 132 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:29.279 get a check mark for a fairway hit, but one 133 00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:32.160 is a much better shot than the other, So fairways 134 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:37.040 hit doesn't capture the difference between those clearly different shots. 135 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:41.279 The same way when you count putts, if you sink 136 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:44.040 a two footer, you know you miss the green, you 137 00:07:44.120 --> 00:07:46.000 chip the two feet, and you sink the two footter, 138 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:47.759 it's a one put on that green, you say, great, 139 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:50.839 it's a one putt. But on another green where you 140 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:53.120 hit your approach shot to forty five feet and you 141 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:55.680 sink a forty five footer, that's a one putt. Also, 142 00:07:55.800 --> 00:07:58.879 both of those strokes count as one putt. It looks 143 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:01.279 like you're putting is the same, But sinking a forty 144 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:04.560 five footer is a much better putting performance than sinking 145 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:08.759 a two footer. So neither fairways hit nor putting really 146 00:08:08.759 --> 00:08:11.279 gives you the true story. And you can say the 147 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:15.800 same thing about greens and regulation that if you have 148 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:19.319 few greens and regulation, was it because you drove the 149 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:22.000 ball poorly, or your iron shots were poor, or your 150 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:24.800 you know, your third shot on a par five was poor. 151 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:27.920 It doesn't really explain what's what's going wrong. 152 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:35.440 So we're going from subjective to objective information exactly. Okay, 153 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.399 you know that I frequently say the one the only 154 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:41.399 thing I hate more than a one putt bogie is 155 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:47.960 one putt double bogie. But so let's how did you 156 00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:50.679 get to this place? Please give us some background on 157 00:08:51.559 --> 00:08:53.879 where it brought you to, how you brought it to 158 00:08:53.879 --> 00:08:57.840 the PGA, what they're doing with it, go from that. 159 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:01.960 So, so it was sort of a a fortunate confluence 160 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:07.279 of events. I'd say that my day job is being 161 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:10.639 an academic at Columbia Business School, where my research is 162 00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:14.399 in quantitative finance. But I'm a golfer and I have 163 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:18.320 a passion for golf, and I realized that I could 164 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:23.200 take my academic training and put it together with my 165 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:27.759 golf hobby to try and answer these questions that are 166 00:09:27.799 --> 00:09:31.159 at the heart of golf. But it all boils down 167 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:34.519 to having some data. And so some of the questions 168 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:37.639 that I wanted to answer were where did the ten 169 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:40.919 strokes come from that separate a ninety golfer from an 170 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:44.519 eighty golfer? Or what's the difference between an eighty golfer 171 00:09:44.519 --> 00:09:47.360 and a pro where did those strokes come from? Or 172 00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:49.440 as you mentioned earlier, what's the value of hitting the 173 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:53.399 ball twenty yards further. And for any of those questions, 174 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:55.440 I didn't know the answer, I didn't know anybody else 175 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:57.679 who knew the answer, and I didn't have the data 176 00:09:57.799 --> 00:10:01.799 to answer it. So first step was trying to get 177 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:07.320 data to then do the analysis. And so I developed 178 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:11.240 a program called golf Metrics that would could be used 179 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:14.600 to collect and analyze amateur data. And unbeknownst to me, 180 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:17.120 at the same time, the PGA Tour was starting to 181 00:10:17.159 --> 00:10:20.519 collect data with their shot Link system, and so they 182 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:25.399 partnered with CDW and since two thousand and three, they've 183 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:30.360 recorded every shot of every pro golfer in every one 184 00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:33.519 of the PGA Tour events, and so they have this 185 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:39.120 massive amount of data and they wanted a way to 186 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:44.759 use this data to better understand performance. And they thought 187 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:48.440 their weakest stat was putting. In fact, they had three 188 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:51.960 putting stats. One was just counting putts. They realized that 189 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:55.679 wasn't so good. So they also had putts per green 190 00:10:55.720 --> 00:10:59.759 and regulation, which very few people understood. And they also 191 00:10:59.799 --> 00:11:03.559 had had length of putts that were hold. So every 192 00:11:03.559 --> 00:11:05.879 time you sink a twenty foot or it adds twenty 193 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:09.279 feet to your length of putts hold. Anyway, none of 194 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:13.360 those three putting stats really gave a good picture of 195 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:15.120 who was the best putter. 196 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:17.559 And so at the time that I was doing. 197 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:22.879 This analysis and they very nicely gave me access to 198 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:26.519 the PGA Tour data, they also wanted a better putting 199 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:30.440 stat and this thing, this work led to the strokes 200 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:32.759 gained putting stat that the PGA Tour rolled out in 201 00:11:34.200 --> 00:11:35.559 May of twenty eleven. 202 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:45.240 On the strokes gained putting, you give a great example 203 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:49.639 about Rory McElroy. Did you expand on that for us? 204 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:53.360 Well, if he was the player of the year in 205 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:58.200 twenty twelve, he won a bunch of tournaments, he had 206 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:02.000 the lowest scoring average, he won, he had almost every 207 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:03.840 tournament he was in he was in in the top ten. 208 00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:08.559 So this was just a fantastic year twenty twelve for 209 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:11.639 Rory McElroy. And then you take a look at his 210 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:15.720 stats and he's not in the top fifty in driving, 211 00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:18.639 he's not in the top fifteen in greens and regulation, 212 00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:21.799 and he wasn't in the top fifty in in strokes 213 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:24.480 gain putting. So here you have the best player of 214 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.840 the year who can't get the ball off the tee. 215 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:29.360 He can't hit the green and he can't putt according 216 00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:33.600 to the stats, And there's this complete disconnect between the 217 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:37.559 information provided by the stats and the performance that you're 218 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:40.799 seeing on the course. And if you look at this 219 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:43.200 through this new lens of strokes gain, you can exceed. 220 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:48.919 You can see exactly why Rory McElroy had the twenty 221 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:49.840 twelve that he did. 222 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:55.200 And I mean it's like, wait a minute, you just 223 00:12:55.240 --> 00:12:59.799 disproved yourself that now expand why tell me why that 224 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:03.000 for you? That became heaven to have all this information? 225 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:06.720 But how you can prove that he wasn't the best player, 226 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:07.879 He just had the best year. 227 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:15.120 So in this measure called strokes gain driving, which measures 228 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:17.440 how well he hit the ball off the tee on 229 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:21.559 par fours and fives, he was ranked second in his 230 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:25.039 approach shots meaning all shots starting outside of one hundred 231 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:31.200 yards excluding driving, he was ranked second. He was ranked 232 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:33.840 thirty fourth in a short game shots inside one hundred 233 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:36.919 yards except for putts, and he was ranked seventy third 234 00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:41.879 and putting, so that was, you know, the weakest part 235 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:45.200 of his game. A short game was a little you know, 236 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:47.399 both his putting and a short game were slightly above 237 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:51.440 tour average, but outside one hundred yards he killed it. 238 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:55.799 He was just phenomenal from outside one hundred yards. So 239 00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.759 he gained most of his strokes outside one hundred yards 240 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:04.720 and strokes gained and kind of clearly shows where he 241 00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:06.440 was getting his advantage on the field. 242 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:12.440 So the age old addict of drive for show, putt 243 00:14:12.519 --> 00:14:15.120 for doe doesn't really hold up, does it. 244 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:17.200 Well not in this case. 245 00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:21.159 I mean, he gained eighty five percent of his strokes 246 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:24.919 on the field came outside one hundred yards and fifteen 247 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:29.559 percent came from inside one hundred yards. But you know, 248 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:33.360 it's it's it's different for different golfers, and when you 249 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:37.000 average over the top ten twenty thirty forty golfers on tour, 250 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:43.039 you'll find that kind of similar result. But within there, 251 00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:46.120 you look at a particular golfer and there's definitely there's 252 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:47.080 definitely variation. 253 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:49.200 So it's it's true that. 254 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:53.320 Luke Donald is one, you know, has one of the 255 00:14:53.320 --> 00:14:55.159 best putting and one of the best short games in 256 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:57.159 the world, and you can see that. You can see 257 00:14:57.159 --> 00:14:59.799 Steve Stricker has one of the best short games in 258 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:03.039 the in the world. So everybody's a little bit different, 259 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:06.639 but more often than not, it's it's the long game 260 00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:09.200 that separates the best pros from the average pros. 261 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:12.759 So the big drives really do make a. 262 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:15.039 Difference, absolutely. 263 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:19.320 And uh, you take a look at some of the 264 00:15:19.879 --> 00:15:22.720 you know, the best drivers in the game, and they 265 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:26.559 would be like Bubba Watson or Dustin Johnson, and they 266 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:29.679 hit the ball really far and they hit it pretty straight. 267 00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:33.840 So when you look at fairways hit, they're certainly down 268 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:37.360 on the list, but they're straighter. 269 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:41.200 Than than than us, than us by far. 270 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:45.639 What's you know, I'm hitting the ball two thirty or 271 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:49.559 two forty and I'm hitting you know, fifty percent of 272 00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:51.840 my fairways. They're hitting at three twenty and they're hitting 273 00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:53.799 sixty percent of their fairwys or something like that. 274 00:15:53.679 --> 00:15:55.720 That's why we hate those guys. 275 00:15:56.679 --> 00:15:59.120 Oh, I think that's why we love to watch them, right. 276 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:05.080 Right, exactly your example of Jason Day, I think everyone 277 00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:10.200 can relate to. And how does that compute? 278 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:14.679 And please give the example, right, if you pop the 279 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:18.440 ball up and hit one hundred yards in the fairway 280 00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:20.480 counts as a fairway hit. You hit it three twenty 281 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:23.399 in the fairway counts as a fairway hit. So they 282 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:26.799 both look they both look the same but when you 283 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:31.000 measure it on strokes gained. I unfortunately picked on Jason 284 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:35.120 Day because it was such an unusual example. When at 285 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:38.240 Kapalua on the I believe it was the eleventh hole. 286 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:42.960 You know, he he hit a fat drive. I think 287 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:44.600 he was trying to drive the green or something. He 288 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:47.919 swung so hard, but he hit it, hit so fat 289 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:50.879 that it went just over one hundred yards, and in 290 00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:53.559 strokes gained, you can see he lost about seven tenths 291 00:16:53.559 --> 00:16:57.000 of a stroke on the field with that with that drive. 292 00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:02.480 So the key is, in order to compare driving with 293 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:06.119 appro shots, with sand shots, with putting, you need a 294 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:10.240 common scale. You can't measure drives in yards with putts 295 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:13.559 that are measured in strokes. So what strokes gain does 296 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:16.240 is allow you to put all of these different shots 297 00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:20.680 on a common footing, so you can compare not only 298 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:23.119 who's the best driver, but how does driving compare with 299 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:25.519 a pro shots, short game shots and putting. 300 00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:31.160 I need actually for the stats freaks out there, it 301 00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:33.319 was the thirteenth hole in twenty eleven. 302 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:35.319 Oh thank you, Okay. 303 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:38.680 Not a problem, because I dog eared that page as well. 304 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:44.359 In all this, you know, going in background of all this, 305 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:49.920 the dynamic programming. I thought was really fascinating explanation to 306 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:55.960 help us get there. And as a professor of business, 307 00:17:56.599 --> 00:17:57.720 you must love that stuff. 308 00:17:58.480 --> 00:17:59.400 Oh absolutely. 309 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:03.480 It's you can use this idea of you know, what's 310 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:05.720 the quickest way to get to a goal? And it 311 00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:09.119 happens all the time in everyday life. And whenever you 312 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:12.039 get into a car and you want to drive somewhere, 313 00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:13.599 you can press a button and it will tell you 314 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:17.359 the shortest route to get to your destination. That's one 315 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:22.079 example of how do you make multiple decisions in a 316 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:27.039 way that satisfies an objective, in this case getting to 317 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:31.119 your destination fast. But there's other examples in you know, 318 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:37.279 finance and investing. When you want to improve your investing 319 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:39.920 performance so that you have enough money to retire, on 320 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:44.640 what's the best way to invest over time so that 321 00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:48.680 you have an adequate amount in your retirement account. And 322 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:51.920 the connection with golf is what's the quickest way to 323 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:55.079 get to the hole? And the way you do that 324 00:18:55.279 --> 00:18:58.279 is you measure not in terms of yards or feet, 325 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:01.559 but you measure in terms of strokes. And the reason 326 00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:05.519 for that is one yard more on your drive isn't 327 00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:08.799 worth the same as getting a putt three feet closer 328 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:12.920 to the hole, so not all three three foot gains 329 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:14.640 are the same. But if you measure it in terms 330 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:18.440 of strokes, then you can compare drives, approach shots, and puts. 331 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:22.400 But you need a tremendous amount of data to be 332 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:25.599 able to it would be Is it hard to do 333 00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:29.079 it for yourself to figure this out? 334 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:29.799 No, it's not. 335 00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:32.920 I mean you need a tremendous amount of data to 336 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:37.839 figure out what the benchmark is or what you're comparing against. 337 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:43.480 So in the example of Jason Day where he hit 338 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:48.279 this unusually short te shot for himself, what you need 339 00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:52.680 to know is what was the PGA Tour average score 340 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:56.559 on the tee and then what's the PGA Tour average 341 00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:00.680 score from his position in the fairway. And it turns 342 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:04.960 out that on that shot he was four strokes away 343 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:06.839 from the hole when he started. 344 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:09.359 And he was because it was a par four. 345 00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:11.839 It was a it was an. 346 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:14.119 Average par four, so some par fours it would be 347 00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:15.799 more or less than that, but it was an average 348 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:20.119 par four, and at the end of the shot, the 349 00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:22.599 PGA to were average from that position would be three 350 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:26.279 point seven strokes. So he took one swing and he 351 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:30.160 only got point three strokes closer to the hole, which meant, 352 00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:33.680 you know, he lost point seven And so you might 353 00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:36.599 not follow the math. But you know, if a PGA 354 00:20:36.680 --> 00:20:39.720 Tour player hits one hundred yard drive, you know, with 355 00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:42.039 a driver on a long par four, on a. 356 00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.960 Par four, it's not funny. We all do this, we 357 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:46.440 all do that. 358 00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:50.559 So the funny part is Jason Day smiled after this, 359 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.839 he laughed. Whereas the guys in my forest and after 360 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:56.000 a shot like that are about to break their club 361 00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:00.000 over their knee. He shook it off and ended up 362 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:02.920 up paring the hole. And that's That's one of the 363 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:05.599 things that I'm so impressed with these PGA Tour pros, 364 00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:09.640 which is they not only hit better shots, but their 365 00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:12.559 mental game is better. They can forget about the bad 366 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:16.640 shots or laugh them off better. They practice better, they 367 00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:18.640 probably eat better, they work out better. 368 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:21.319 Yeah, but they're constantly traveling, they have to be in 369 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:23.319 a different bed, they have different food all the time. 370 00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:26.079 It's not an easy life to be able to perform 371 00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:28.720 at that level when you have all these different factors 372 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:30.079 weighing down on you. 373 00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:33.519 Well, I think they do it all all the more 374 00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:36.759 impressive what they do. They're playing different courses. I have 375 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:39.799 trouble enough playing you know, the same course over and 376 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:43.359 over again. They're playing a different course every week. It's 377 00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:46.519 it's just amazing how how good they are. And those 378 00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:50.720 courses that they're playing aren't like our course. The greens 379 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:52.880 are much harder, the rough is much thicker, and of 380 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:54.319 course the holes are much longer. 381 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:04.480 I kind of get it once you start getting the decimals. 382 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:06.480 I'm like, how did you get that? That's where I 383 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:11.160 get lost. I'm not a math guy ever. I'm a 384 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:14.119 recording engineer, and maybe I should be a math guy 385 00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:17.640 by doing that, But that's where I get lost. But 386 00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:19.559 that's what I loved about being able to read the book, 387 00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:23.000 because you really did give a lot of graphs and images, 388 00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:28.960 and you explain like a college professor. You explain it 389 00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:31.680 quite well. And that's what I really enjoyed about this book. 390 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:35.119 Well, well, I appreciate that, But one of the things 391 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:40.640 I hope the readers will find is that this is simple. 392 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:46.160 It's at the heart, it's just subtracting two numbers and 393 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:50.519 to give you, to give you an idea if you 394 00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:54.240 knew nothing about strokes gain and I said, if you 395 00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:59.640 missed the two footer. How many strokes do you think 396 00:22:59.640 --> 00:23:01.640 you low lost? What would your answer be? 397 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:03.200 Two? 398 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:08.359 If you if you two putt from two feet, how 399 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:10.440 much do you think you would lose to most of 400 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:12.640 your fellow competitors if you had a two putt from 401 00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:13.240