Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasiko's I Am Dana Valley coming at
you with my one, my only, my certified fantabulous co host,
mister Grant Hughes. Welcome to the officially unofficial start of
NBA trade season December fifteenth. So many players who signed
contracts over the offseason can now be traded. That's when
we're recording this. You'll be listening to this on December sixteenth,
which is also the final day that players can be
acquired unless you're using cap space, and also then be
reaggregated by the trade deadline. So like the Warriors did
last year with Dennis Shuter, if you acquire someone by
December sixteenth, they can be reaggregated in any trade on
trade deadline day. So big stuff. Naturally, we thought that
this was a good time to have some sort of
a draft, and so we are going to do our
trade value draft, alternating picks. The first pick will be
decided in real time for the first time ever on
one of these drafts via I don't want to is
it an outmoded mechanism that we should say, but it
involves it involves patriotism for sure, Yes, I would argue, yeah, yeah,
But first, before Grant explains to us how this whole
process is gonna work, we do have to ask how
are you feeling you look? I just want to say,
you look at least ten to seventeen years younger than
when I last saw you. Is there any secret behind that?
Speaker 2: Uh? Just clean eating and you know, uh you know,
uh sold my soul to the devil. Actually, thank you
for asking. I can't bury the lead anymore because we
were talking off Mike before this what we're gonna do.
I'm doing well, I'm doing great because I have a
breaking news for you. We're gonna draft players based on
their I guess descending order of trade value price didn't
I know, I'm just jumping in the explanation, but we
have to get there before I explain what I'm holding
and why I'm excited about it. Uh. So, we're just
gonna pick back and forth players we think will yield
the highest trade value. However, twist, if the player you
picked does not get traded, the trade value you got
from that player is zero, so you better factor in
the likelihood that they're gonna be traded. So, because you
stand to waste picks on guys that don't change teams
and you won't get any value out of it, So
there's a balancing act. This is a really important exercise,
and the way we'll decide who gets to go first
is with a coin flip. And Dan this I thought,
first of all, you were impressed that I had loose
change sitting around and I was. I still am Yeah,
did not just have loose change. There was a Canadian
dollar that was going to potentially be used, but this
is America, so we're going with American currency.
Speaker 1: Isn't Canada's and we just osmo.
Speaker 2: Still working on it, still working on it. I told
you this is a fifty cent piece. It's Dan, this
is a silver dollar.
Speaker 1: I just two x the.
Speaker 2: Value of this podcast. Check that out. Do you know
who that is a silver dollar?
Speaker 1: I'm holding it up the inventor of crypto Yah.
Speaker 2: I want to say Dwight Eisenhower, but I'm not super
up on my presidential profiles. So anybody that knows who's
on a silver dollar comment, I guess.
Speaker 1: We could look it up, but we're not. We're not
going to No.
Speaker 2: We're engaging with the audience. Anything you want to add
about the rules that I hastily got through so I
could show the silver dollar on camera.
Speaker 1: I did want to ask you what did you end up?
And there's still the orders just jumbled in my mind.
But did you find yourself well, I guess you don't
want to reveal your draft strategy, But did you struggle
as much as I did over the push and pull
of do I want to be right that this player
got traded? Do I want to actually talk about someone
that I think has a ton of value with applausible
path to actually being traded?
Speaker 2: So I think yes, I did struggle with that. I
think we're gonna this is gonna organically end up where
it should because the payoff of taking players that we
really want to talk about, how valuable they might be
in a trade sense, is going to be so high
that you will just have to pick them even if
there's a twenty percent chance or less that they actually
get moved, because that's going to win you the quote
unquote win you the draft. So I think all those
guys will be taken. We can definitely have like a
lightning round at the end after our picks are made
with like, why you know, it really burns me that
this guy's still on the board, But here were the
reasons it teams. Yeah, right, Patrick Williams know he was
implied in my list of some guys have the value
that's so high that they're going to get traded that
we have to pick them. No, Yeah, it was hard.
I think I tried to keep the list short and organized,
and those two tasks were impossible. There's so many names
that you have to consider.
Speaker 1: The two notes, I think. So we're going to do
like a lottery. There will be fourteen picks, will alternate
seven each and everyone's I'm sure they're waiting with just
baited breath about this coin toss that's coming. And the
other thing that I'd like to emphasize is plausibility. Fine,
if you don't think a trade, Murphy is going to
be traded, but he's been talked about enough. We're not
just gonna sit here and pick Nikola Jokic or shake
Gilgris Alexander, because, like Grant said at the top, I
just want to make sure that we're melding those two ideas.
Is it's not just about their actual trade value in
a vacuum. It's there has to be a potential for
them to be traded. Now, if I sat here and
thought that the thunder really, you know, after that loss
in the NBA Cup semi finals, is no longer the answer.
It's time to rebuild. Maybe we pick Sue, but who knows?
Speaker 2: No, I think, yeah, that's right. It's not just a
free for all, like, okay, well it's it's we just
we're not making an MVP list basically, which is what
this would amount to if we were. If we were
doing it just based on actual trade value, it's got
to be someone whose name you've at least heard tangentially
mentioned or like, which is almost you know, everyone in
the league based on the economy that exists for trade speculation.
But yeah, that's a good distinction to make. Should we
flip this coin?
Speaker 1: Let's flip this coin? And I think you need to
show that it has two sides that you're not.
Speaker 2: Not a This is not a two face situation. This
is a then on the back, I think we have
a liberty bell maybe uh and something behind it? Sweet?
Should we do a coin podcast? What's the coin collector
out there?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And the crossover with basketball? How do we do it?
But if every NBA player were on a coin, who
would be on the penny? Who would be on the nickel.
Speaker 2: John, I can tell you this, John Stockton's on the dime, buddy.
All right, that's enough of that. I'm gonna have you
call it in the air. Are you ready? Yes, I
feel like I'm gonna bang the mic trying to catch
this thing. Tails. It is tails. I'm gonna lift my
hand up and show it on the back of my
palm with that liberty bell and whatever else that is.
So I think that means you have the first pick.
I should have let you have the option to defer,
just so that way you have to make the decision.
And this was all a big trick. But I think
you probably have to get the first.
Speaker 1: Pick, so I don't get the right to for her.
I thought I would have that right.
Speaker 2: Would you like the right to?
Speaker 1: I would like the right, but I'm not going to
exercise it because I am not a coward, and I
am going to go with Giannis Attenta Kumpo as the
number one pick. I think, look, he's the only top
five player who might get traded, and I think that
that has to count for something. What I think is
tough here is you have to weigh two things of
do you actually think there's a chance that he gets
traded versus what are teams willing to give up for him?
Because I think we've seen a lot of the reporting
like for now has been what did The most reason
Steinlein say is that the Rockets, the Thunder, and the
Spurs are not willing to go all in on Giannis
because they like what they have so far. I think
with Okac, it's kind of well, yeah, no shit, like
you like what you have, you might be the best
team in NBA history. With the Spurs and the Rockets
and even the Hawks, it's certainly more of a conversation.
I think it's very easy for some people to sit
here and say, you guys are stupid if you think
the Spurs should give up Steph Castle for Giannis, I'm
having I'm am I giving up both Dylan Harper and
Steph Castle for you honest attend to compo? No, But
am I having a conversation if it's one of them? Yeah?
And I just I find it very tough that to
believe that teams wouldn't go all in on a Yannis trade.
And I think that's what I'm struggling with. And so
I think if you look at the Buck situation, The
risk here for me is they won't move him, that
they're more likely to keep him. Let this leak into
the off season. We saw follow up reporting from Sam A.
Mak of The Athletic that they've been looking at Zach Lavine.
And I don't know what says desperate than looking at
a thirty year old guard making forty seven point five
million dollars. Maybe are they more likely to do something
in the short term to try and keep you, honest,
to try and convince him to stay, to get to
the off season when they could trade three first round
picks make other moves. That's what I when I was
thinking about what I take you, honest number one, which
is why I almost wanted to defer. I'm going to
take him because I just think even if he's not moved,
I'll go down swinging because when he does get moved,
and that's how this is going to end. I'm sorry,
that's just how it's gonna end. I don't want him to.
I like the idea of him finixed to his career
in Milwaukee, just don't see it happening. I think that
he is going to get a caps lock hall and
maybe it's less than people think we did a whole
podcast about is the star trade market changing? But this
is like, this is the guy to where you're either
if you're on the precipice of contention or even if
you're far away from contention. He can put you over
the hump, even if it's just for the next two
three years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna say this, like I am confident in
understanding probabilities. But like, if you think he's gonna go
for five first round picks, but there's only a twenty
percent chance of him going at all, then you're still
expected value wise. That's one first rounder. And there really
aren't that many guys that have a high likelihood of
being traded in this crop that are like always definitely
going to get a first right, like the vast majority
of candidates. I think it's a weird market right now,
and there's a lot of guys that might go for
seconds or you're exchanging badmane or whatever. So he had
to be the pick. I respect it. I probably would
have taken him first also, but knowing that, like the
smart decision is probably to wait. But like we got
two months before the deadline, right, so, like you don't
think the smart decision just the way.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not saying it's I'm not saying it's the unwad.
I don't think they should just trade him for whatever
they could get right now, And these moves are always
more complicated mid season. But do you see there being
the potential for now? The calf strain, of course, is
the variable in all this, But is there a chance
that they're gonna get less or have a more finite
field of suitors over the summer because he will be
one year out from free agency, and that's all the
time you have to convince him to stay. I'm not
saying you still can't get a bunch for him, but
doesn't it feel like if he sits there, and even
if he's not forceful about it, and he has two
teams on his list, it feels a lot less likely
that one of the two teams that are not on
his list are gonna come and bull you over with
an offer that has I've seen Bucks fans think they're
just gonna get five first, all the swaps and a
young player. I don't think Milwaukee is. I think they're
gonna get a bunch of stuff and it's gonna be
I think There'll be some people that will talk themselves
into it in the moment, but some of the packages
that are being bandied about there. From Milwaukee's like fan perspective,
I think it's gonna end up being a little light,
and I wonder if you run the risk of it
becoming even lighter, should you wait until the summer with
I want to couch this by saying I'm probably just
keeping him through the season anyway. From the Bucks, I'm
just sort of devil's advocating this.
Speaker 2: No, I think those are the Those are the dueling
concerns you weigh. One is I was defaulting too. There'll
just be more options in the summer, just because it's
just I don't know, things are easier, you know where
draft picks are actually gonna fall as opposed to like,
you have more information theoretically there are more suitors, but
you're weighing that against like well as a team. If
you trade for him now you're getting like theoretically two
cracks that like title runs right before the contract stuff
becomes an issue, you wait till the summer, you get one,
and it's you got to know that there's an extension
in place. You've got to know, you've got his sign
off all this other stuff. That's a real thing. So yeah,
I don't know. Maybe I was too quick to say
that it may it's smarter to wait. I still lean
that way, but there's definitely an argument to be made that, like,
you want two shots right if you're if you're Team X,
as opposed to just the one that you might get
over the summer. So he had to be the pick
though it just the payoff has to justify it.
Speaker 1: I think too that if the Spurs and the Hawks
specifically because of the draft equity have they have, if
they're just not about it, you might as well just wait,
because if one of those teams flames out in the playoffs,
like they might be able to talk themselves into we will,
like because they're a team that you could see maybe
Yanna is sticking with, or just Atlanta having that, sheer
As said, I want to ask you before we go
to your pick, what is more likely that the Bucks
get more than three first round picks or I wanted
the equivalent of four first round picks for you honest,
or or that he gets moved before the season's over.
Which which outcome would you be willing to bet they
don't have to be disparate outcomes. But what do you
think is more likely that Giannie gets moved mid season
or that he gets the equivalent of four plus first
round picks in value?
Speaker 2: I mean, they don't feel like they're mutually exclusive to me, Okay,
I I would say I'd say it is more likely
the packages are tough because a lot of the suitors
could use like actual players as opposed to picks as
like the main assets in the deal. I'm gonna I
still think it's more likely that he yields the equivalent
of four firsts or more that that, just like I
think it has to be the case.
Speaker 1: Is it as simple as look at what Desmond bang
got from the Magic I know they sent They sent
out bad salary, which I think, yeah, we've talked.
Speaker 2: About You've you turned me around on that a little bit,
because you're sort of paying to offload other stuff in
that deal. It might be for some for the right team,
But the reason I hesitated was because, like, say it's
the Spurs. Yeah, they could do the four first or
whatever pick equivalents, but it's like if you're the if
you're the Bucks, you're more interested. I assume in that
team's young players than you are their picks, because how
valuable are those picks one and two? Like they just
have a lot like you Just you get Steph Castle,
for example, that's that's worth like one point five. Just
we don't know when they're coming or where they'll fall first,
because you.
Speaker 1: Know, if you get Dylan Harper, that might be the
two and a half, right.
Speaker 2: Like, that's that's the thing I think, So that that's
that's what gives me pause. I just assume Milwaukee will
be in a rebuild, so they're gonna prioritize picks. But
but it's hard to say I would have taken you, honest,
this is so for my pick, I think I have
to kind of go with the same approach where you
have to maximize the potential return while acknowledging the chance
that like this guy just might not move. And so
I think I have to take Anthony Davis. I don't
think there's any real chance that the package for him
will be more than like two thirds or half of
what Yiannis gets. Uh, But I to me, it seems
like the odds of him being traded are roughly similar.
If you're Dallas I've fixated on this idea that with
Nico Harrison gone, like you can just sort of approach
the team building process with clear eyes again. And it's
not like this is I have to I can't. This
guy is the symbol of like my gambit for trading Luca,
and if I trade him, then it's gonna look even
worse because you'll get to do the like the trade
Tree math of well, they traded Luca and they didn't
even get anything Davis. They got this pick from the
Lakers and some other stuff, and it looks even worse
than getting Anthony Davis, I guess in some ways. So
but with with sort of with I guess Patrick Dumont
and the Committee of decision makers now, none of whom
I think are gonna be nearly as married to justify
the Luca trade by holding on to Davis longer than
makes sense, It just seems easier to move him. I
don't know if it's gonna happen, for several reasons, but
not the least of which is Davis is now hurt again.
But I don't know. He's to me, the biggest name
that's semi available other than Yannis, and so I just
kind of had to go there any if you had
to guess just to talk about likelihood, because you won't
get as much for Davis, age, years on the contract,
all this other stuff relative to honest likelihood of being moved.
Do you think Davis's is higher or lower than Yannis
and we're talking before this year's deadline.
Speaker 1: I think it's lower just because the injuries, lower value,
lower likelihood of being traded. I just because doesn't it
seem if you're Dallas that there's less of a like
how much worse of the offer is gonna get if
you're or rather, if you're looking at Anthony Davis right now,
it kind of feels like his value is being talked
about closer to its nay dear than it is for
Yiannis to where if you wait on Ah, I don't
know like Gianni's having the leverage if he just asked
for out, Milwaukee might have to do it to where
Dallas is sort of on a completely different timeline now
and he's not a franchise icon for them. It feels
like they might sit and hope that a team gets
desperate over the UN talks themselves and oh, Anthony Davis
closed the season strong, and this will be the move
that puts us over the top. Maybe it's also just
because we've talked about Giannis more than any other player though,
that I look at it and say, oh, yeah, he's
just certainly gonna be one of the more likely ones
to be moved. But you're dealing with a top five player.
The bar should be so high that if some of
these teams are saying we're not going all in right now,
the field might be wider for Anthony Davis because the
MAVs are willing to accept less. But I think the
problem with Davis for me is twofold one. I don't
just look at a team and say, oh, this is
the team that will go after Anthony Davis, and I
can do that a lot with Gianni's. The other thing, too,
is if you're going after Anthony Davis, why are you
not going after Yannis? If you think you have the
assets to get in the Anthony Davis discussion, or you're
not trying to wait and maybe see how the like
the honest situation plays out.
Speaker 2: Here's why I think one is and and this is
why this pick for me really does have to rest
on higher likelihood of him moving one is, if you're
a team that's interested in Davis, it might be because
you don't have the assets for you. Honest, it's gonna
cost you less to get Anthony Davis, I think. And
so that in theory just opens up the market for
there to be more teams interested. Maybe this is and secondly,
maybe this is a galaxy brain kind of way to
look at it. But if you trade for Yannis, isn't
he someone like when we talked about Harden this way
when we recently, But like Yannis kind of reorganizes your
whole deal. Like you you have to build a certain
type of team. I don't feel like it's that easy
now with the Spurs because of women Yama. I think
maybe this isn't gonna apply. But it's not that easy
to build. You can't just throw Yanis into any mix
and it's gonna make sense. You have to have the spacing,
you have to have the just there's other stuff. With Davis.
It's like he's just a really good center, assuming you
can convince him that he is a center.
Speaker 1: Well it's just.
Speaker 2: Tricky, but you know, does that make sense? Like Davis
doesn't really disrupt anything if he's replacing just center X,
whereas putting Giannis on your team and paying more to
get him just requires the kind of overhaul that is
part of the reason it's not that easy to come
up with. Like this is obviously where Yannis will go. Davis,
you could throw him. You could throw him on any
of twenty five teams. You know what's lower than that
because rebuilders won't want him, but say fifteen teams that
have realistic top six in their conference expectations, and like,
he's not gonna wreck anything you're doing. In theory, he's
purely additive as long as he's healthy. So maybe that's
that's the case I'd make for taking him.
Speaker 1: Second, the I think the most persuasive part of that
for me was he will cost substantially less than Yannis.
And so if you're looking for kind of a big name,
I just what is are there any teams that you
really like him for I've seen him linked. I will
say the team I've seen a most frequently linked to
in speculation and rumors is Detroit And I cannot emphasize
enough how much I hate that.
Speaker 2: That I don't understand, like, because you could make.
Speaker 1: There's no way Detroit is thinking about it.
Speaker 2: I don't think so either, because you have Duran and
Durren's like, he's not Anthony Davis, but man, he's been
good and he's healthy.
Speaker 1: Steward too, It's just like what we're great? Like, why
why are you upgrading what is maybe your deepest position.
Speaker 2: That's the bigger issue with Detroit specifically, is like you
don't need another big guy. You need another secondary creator
and a two way guy that can shoot and defend.
Like that's center is low on the list of Detroit needs. Yeah, okay,
I'm curious where you're gonna go because I thought those
two I expected to be the first two picks.
Speaker 1: I actually so, I will let you know pick number
three would have had I had the second pick, this
person would have gone second for me. It wouldn't have
been Anthony Davis.
Speaker 2: If that's that's hurtful, I don't know why you have
to just I'm.
Speaker 1: Trying to build up, build up suspense too. I'm taking
a risk here and going with Trey Murphy at number three.
The contract. When you look at he's in the first
year of that extension of four years and one hundred
and twelve point five million dollars. He's never gonna make
even seventeen percent of the salary cap you're talking about
with Anthony Davis. This player can come in and doesn't
gum up anything. He's just augmenting everything that you do
on the court. Between that, the age, the contract, I
think while the Pelicans do not have to move him,
and so that lack of urgency, and he is young
enough to where they could say no, let's move forward.
Jeremiah Fears, Trey Murphy, Derek Queen, maybe even Herb Jones,
I think they can take that stance. I also think
we're at the point where you and I have talked
a lot about how in this new environment, not just
financially looking at the Aprons, but the way that teams
want to play, the way that they want to defend,
the injuries that we are increasingly dealing with. Depth is
so important, and that there might be teams that are
willing to invest more, not more, but star type packages
in non stars almost Trey Murphy is like he is,
He's the quintessential example of that guy, is he not
like if you wanted to bring him in for that
like you maybe like Derek White would be another name
that falls into a similar bucket. So I look at
that and say, I could just see a team coming
in here and being like, here is three first round
picks for Trey Murphy and talking themselves into doing that.
Maybe one of those two isn't really that good. There's
only limited upside. And then the Pelicans are just at
a point to where, no, they don't have to trade him,
but you are veering in a direction to where by
the time you are hoping to be a contender again,
Trey Murphy's not going to be on this bargain bin
of a deal. He'd be closer to thirty. So I
think that it would make them think and they're just
I think there'd be more teams if it's a Detroit,
if it's a I mean, like even if it's a Houston,
maybe even the Warriors, Like they would come in and
put best young assets, best first round picks on the table.
And I honestly my prediction would be I think Trey
Murphy is more likely to get moved than either Giannis
or Anthony David. I just made the upside bet with
Giannis his return.
Speaker 2: I think so too, But I think so too. In
the what I hesitate with is like then they shouldn't
trade him, like they's just what I think. I think, like,
unless you can get the type of package you're talking about,
the Pelicans just shouldn't trade him. Uh. But yeah, that's
a good pick. So I'm gonna I'm gonna jump to
mine because I feel like these guys should be viewed
somewhat similarly, except I think if this guy gets traded,
and it's probably a bigger if than Murphy, I'm committing
now to guys that just might not get traded and
shooting to hit one and just win the asset war
that way, I'm gonna take Lori Markinen. I think it's
I don't know what percentage chance I would put on
him being traded, because we've heard I mean, Sarah Todd
when you talk to her over the summer basically just
kind of laid out that like, Marketon likes it there
and he values like family stability and hasn't been pushing
for a move, and the Jazz have said they're not
not really interested. I just still think there's so much
logic to moving him, much of which could be transferred
over from the Murphy case, where it's like, so let's
talk about Detroit here now, like, Okay, that's a guy
that makes a ton of sense there that he marketing
would make a ton of sense in Golden State, and
make a ton of sense in just like name the
team right, Miami, any any like, literally any place could
use a four that you can treat like just a
five alarm fire shooting guard offensively. So I think market
In is better than Murphy. He makes more money, so
that is prohibitive, I think in a vacuum, though contract
included in all, which is maybe not in a vacuum,
but let's just take so full picture. I think market
In is more valuable than Murphy, and that to me
offsets the slightly lower likelihood that he would be moved
that I think Murphy is more likely to go.
Speaker 1: You find Larry Marketing more valuable than Murphy despite making
basically double.
Speaker 2: I think he's just I think he's a way better player.
I think like he's he's been an All Star, he's
playing better than that now. I think he's just one
of the best offensive players in the sport. He's paid
like it, I think you could. I think if he's
gonna be this guy, I think he's properly paid. Market
it is, and I think if you're looking for a
pretty big swing, like I just keep coming back to Detroit.
But any team that's in that position where hey, we're
really good, we have assets, Like what if he's San Antonio,
what's not to like about Marketing on San Antonio for example?
I just I have to go with the upside of
the value. I think, like he's someone I think the
floor should be three firsts if it's him and we're
talking about trying to get there.
Speaker 1: For Murphy, I think what's interesting and why I would
have been hesitant to select him this high is I
think because Utah should ask for that much. I think
there's to be more trepidation behind giving up that much
for him, which could delay for sure the process. But
I do think you're I guess, when you're just looking
at where the Jazz are versus where the Pelicans are.
And I mean Marketing's a little older than Murphy, I
guess Marketing does feel more likely to put I just
I still think that teams might look at Marketing's deal.
This season has been vindication for Marketing for sure. I
just wonder if the contract ends up being just this
massive hurdle to whereas it's so hard to do this
mid season, and it is if again, if you're giving
up three or four first round picks for Lowry marketing,
why are you not aiming for Yannis in that instance
or waiting for the offseason to see if you're offered
kid best. Yes, I mean that's what I and like
even some of the teams that have been linked with marketing,
I don't Detroit that's everyone's favorite for Lowry. Are they
a team that you even envision giving up that many
first round picks this season?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't know that that might be like that.
That's the thing to me. I think there if there's
a team and there are a lot one of them
that could at least start down the path of having
this conversation where they're like, we think that adding market
In puts us on another level. And I think you
would be right to think that, assuming he stays healthy
and so it's kind of an it only takes one
and you know that Utah, because of the ages, will
drive a really hard bargain, which again cuts both ways,
because it's like a team might just get sticker shock
and say we can't do that. I think if he
does get traded, the package is gonna be substantial, and
I'm just going I'm going for like hitting on one
of these guys now because I just need I need
the maximum. Do we mention up front? Like the way
I'm viewing this at least is like you win the draft,
so to speak, by based on like the total number
of assets returned on all the guys that you've picked.
So that's why it's risky to take guys that might
not be picked, because that might be a zero. So
I'm just going for the all or nothing so far
with my first two.
Speaker 1: The real all or nothing, which you'd be free to
approach it this way, but I don't. Let's you use
Jalen Johnson or Dylan Harper as an example, because you
could say, oh, they help you get Yannis. Those guys
aren't being moved unless it's four Yiannis. So it's like
those are not players on specifically whatever be no oh
yeah about Steph Castle here, because they're only gonna be
available in a certain like like very specific set of
circumstances if at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a weird class of player, right, because it's like,
if so, can you say that the return for Steph
Castle is Yannis in that hypothetical and therefore.
Speaker 1: Like when there's other movements hard to be Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's really yeah. Yeah, we're kind of thinking of it
more as like this one guy gets you all this
other stuff. But that's an interesting slant on it. Maybe
maybe that's a different podcast where it's like what do
you need? What asset do you have to have to
get Yannis? Like, I don't know that. That might be
two in the weeds.
Speaker 1: Pick number five is me. I'm gonna take another. Maybe
this will be journeying the beaten path. I'm gonna say
Derek White. I think he had a rough start to
the season, is even out a little bit of late.
The Celtics are so good that you don't envision them
being sellers at the deadline. I do still kind of
think that they're going to play a very long haul
approach here. I think that they're going to be a
team that, by the eve the draft is gonna want
to duck attacks. Maybe they don't do it exactly at
the deadline, but Derek White's probably someone where you can
offload him, get a bunch of not a bunch, but
some first oud equity, maybe a prospect, save some money
in the process make it easier for yourself to duckt
the tax as part of another move, if not right
at the deadline. And I also just wonder if because
of the way he started the season, looking at his age,
looking at the additional years left on his contract basically
three years and one hundred right after this season for him,
I wonder if they kind of look at it and say,
we need to get out in front of this and
we're going to reorient the roster around. We found some
of these guys Jordan Walls, who apparently just defend five positions,
like just this guy right there, but we're going to
reorient around Jason Tatum and Jayalen Brown. That's the future
of these assets we get back. I don't feel great
about this pick either, because I think that he's another
guy who fits everywhere, and it's someone Houston could be
in on this. Even though they're rolling. You look at
the Warriors, would they give up Pods and Kaminga and
all the first round picks that they could like they
would be a team that'd be interested. I just wonder
if Boston, being so much better than any of us expected,
throws a wrench in those plans. I think Brad Stevens
as angry as some Celtics fans are. And I've kind
of enjoyed watching this out. I like being surprised. I
smashed their under I said they were gonna be bad
on purpose. And I also don't know what else they
were supposed to do, by the way it was what honestly,
what else were they supposed to do to get worse?
Maybe trade Derek White over the offseason. But look at
the guys that are winning them games aside from Jalen Brown,
like Kita is helping Josh might not is helping Jordan Wallash.
You can't sit here and tell me you were predicting
or not you specifically that you were predicting these guys
would help you drive. Look, the real surprise is that
Chris Bouchet is not helping. I'm as shocked as anybody
about that. So I still think that they're gonna end
up taking a longer term view at the deadline. And
also if Jannist doesn't get moved. And these are different positions,
but let's use Larry market In and Trey Murphy some
of these fringe wing types. Is there a chance going
through all these picks that we just went through. Couldn't
There isn't there a non zero chance that Derek White
could be the single most talented player traded at the
at the deadline.
Speaker 2: I would say yes, except we're so far out that
there's still time for I mean, we haven't even got
into like some of the more speculative picks. There is
a chance. But like I feel like, based on past deadlines,
if Derek White is the best player that moves, like,
wouldn't that raid as one of the least inspiring trade
deadlines in a long time? I love I love Derek
Who who is.
Speaker 1: The best player moved it last year's trade deadline? Uh?
Speaker 2: Jimmy Butler? Who else moved? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I guess all right, So if you're about would it
be I guess Jimmy Butler would be objectively a bigger
name get traded. That's galaxy.
Speaker 2: But I don't know who else. So maybe I'm like
refuting my own point by having nobody after him. I'm
sure I'm forgetting somebody. I Okay, I like that pick
a lot that's like right in the middle of safe enough,
like decent chance he gets moved and like guaranteed first
at least for him he's getting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've I have seen a lot of comments wondering, like, well,
if we gave up one pick, could be if he
doesn't get If you're only getting one first for Derek White,
you're not moving Derek White. I would say at least
two feels like a bare minimum Boston.
Speaker 2: From Boston's perspective, right, Like you gotta get cause he's
he makes perfect just like you're talking about he makes
sense everywhere. He makes perfect sense on a I mean,
he's already we've seen prove of concept one like he's
a hugely valuable player on a title winner, like once
Tatum's healthy, Like why wouldn't you just trust that to work? Again,
if you're Boston, it would just be you'd have to
be bowled over, which maybe maybe they will. All Right,
I got a couple different directions I could go here
do I I feel like my first two picks are
so risky. I'm tempted to just take someone I'm certain
will be traded and just have to eat the fact
that it's like a second rounder and bad money coming. Oh.
Speaker 1: I know I know where this is at, but.
Speaker 2: I feel like I'll leave him on the board and
uh man, I wonder do you You don't have to
tell me, but do you have someone in mind that
you're like, I'm definitely taking this person next or you
where I'm at where I can't decide between like five people.
Speaker 1: Uh no, I'm closer to where you were at. I
can tell you that I was not considering taking who
you alluded to. Just now.
Speaker 2: Just lock it in. Though he's definitely gonna it's a heat.
I spoiled it. It's gonna he's gonna give you something
because he's definitely getting traded. So to avoid a shutout,
maybe I just take him now. Okay, you know what
I am gonna do it. I think this is the
single most likely to be traded player in the entire league,
and it is Jonathan Minga and.
Speaker 1: He was not eligible to be traded as December fifth.
Speaker 2: No, but well that's fine.
Speaker 1: We're not just confined to I was just clarifying that
the Warriors they have to gut this out for.
Speaker 2: Until January fifteenth, and then he can move. That's the
can I double down and say, like, if he's on
the team past January seventeenth, I'll just be stunned, Like
there's no there's no chance you.
Speaker 1: Think it's gonna be that quick.
Speaker 2: I I they've got it lined up right now, I
would I would suspect and are just just counting the
minutes basically, both both sides. I don't know what they're
gonna get for him that that we We've like had
conversations about, like how big of a question this is
for Golden State at this point because he's not playing now,
he's out of the rotation. He had very suspicious biladdal
knee tendonitis that kept him out for a while, and
then he came back, didn't really play, definitely didn't play well,
and now he's just not playing. He's dnp's healthy DNPS lately.
I I guess the question is how convinced is another
team that somewhere in there is a guy that will
play really hard and better and consistently once he's on
on a not on the Warriors. Hard to say, uh,
but that contract is valuable in itself as a trade
asset because you can use it to get off money
you maybe don't want because that team option next year
can just go away as the acquiring team. So there
is some value there. Is he going to return a
first rounder? I doubt it. I think he's going to
return like a good player that might not have the
best contract, like a low end starter or like a
clear rotation guy. But my other two picks are so risky.
I just have to take him because I know that
he's getting traded. I'll be stunned if he's not traded.
Speaker 1: His have we entered the realm where he is most
valuable because he can be an expiring contract if the
next team wants it to be set up that way
with the team option.
Speaker 2: I think. I think if you're trading for him, that's
definitely a factor. I still think the most likely the
biggest selling point is like there's something in this guy,
like athletically, if he's actually happy. Maybe, Like I think
that's an un realistic expectation frankly based on his career
to this point in Golden State, but I can imagine
teams looking at him and saying, like, let's just zoom
all the way out. He's still in early twenties, super
athlete at a position that in theory is like very
difficult to fill and might just be a change of
scenery away from being a really good starter with upside.
I think somewhere out there there are teams that still
think that. But if you're wrong, zero risk because he
can just go you can make him go away, and
you've got an open salary slot now. So I don't know.
I'm not answering your question, but it's a factor. I
don't know if that's the main selling point.
Speaker 1: I guess, well, it's what would be the other I get.
I mean, you've laid it out with it being a
different situation, but I think the value for him comes
back to we know what he can do at his
peak with the ball in his hands, and even that's inconsistent.
What do you trust about Jonathan Kaminga's game under the floor?
It could be anything positively by the way, I don't
want to hear about, but yo, his his mirror. What
do you trust that he does well away from the ball?
What is that part of his Because I don't we've
nothing at the beginning of the season, and I will.
I I got JK. Pilt, I've been around me. Talk
like he's rebounding, He's like he's in his threes away
from like this is. I bought the idea of him
being on the Warriors past the trade deadline, and look,
he might still be if the market for him is
that bad, but I bought it for a different reason.
Speaker 2: That that's that's the thing that other teams will see
and point to and say, like, he can do that
for us, he can be that. Now, that's that's the
rub though, right Like he'll show you flashes of oh
he can't do the the the run, the floor, rebound,
move the ball, defend that point of attack, all that stuff, like,
and he looks really good when he does that in
short stretches. I think if you're trading for him, though
you're still concerned deeply, I would say, or you should
be that like he's to get there to new destination
and say, fellas I am an on ball scorer, I'm
gonna need that basketball and watch me cook. And then
you'll just get the same inconsistent like bad decision all
that other stuff, and you're just right where the Warriors
were where you're like, we can't play this guy if
he's gonna do this. So yeah, I I you're right
to say, tell me the thing you know you're getting
from him. And the answer, if you're at all, like
if you've paid any attention at all, is I there
isn't anything you can't be sure you're gonna get something
from him.
Speaker 1: Now, the way you could map this out in your
favor would be if he is one of the vehicles
through which the Warriors go out and get a bigger name,
because he's part of that main squeeze of salary that's
going out. Yeah, I'm just curious as to does that
also work against the odds of him being traded in it? Like,
are the Warriors at the point where we just want
to get rid of him to where well, remember the
Sons offer people laughed at, like if it was just
let's use Royce O'Neill in a second round pick, there's
other parts involved. Probably, are they at the point where
they're just doing that or are they still going to
hold out for the bigger swing, in which case that
winnows down their field of possibilities quite a bit.
Speaker 2: Well, I think the fact that you could imagine him. However,
I don't know what the percentage's likelihood percentage likelihoods are
in either of those either of those configurations, but like
you could have That's what part of the reason I'm
picking him. The main reason I'm picking him is I
think everybody agrees this relationship has to end, and it
has to end as soon as possible, and that's going
to come in the form of a trade. And if
that's for Royce O'Neil in a second, great he's still
getting traded. I get those assets. If it's as part
of a salary match and a larger deal, great, I
guess I get more. If it's for like a real player,
then maybe that makes the return package look better. I
don't know. I just I'm so confident that he's getting
moved that I had to take him to offset Davis
and Markinen.
Speaker 1: We're onto my pick, which is pick number seven. I
do you like I might surprise you with this one
because it's putting some trust in a team that is
just I just feel for their fan base because this
team is just so incompetent and you can't trust This
is a decision they should make, but you can't trust
them to make it. I'm gonna go with Kobe White
and not shooting the three ball as well as normal.
Under twenty seven percent is two point percentages increase. He's
at over fifty seven percent inside the arc, still over
twenty points a game, assists at five. Going to head
into free agency, you just paid Josh Giddy. You have
Trey Jones on the books. You have no future I
would assume was going into free agency. I don't know
if there's anything that screams we have no idea what
we're doing, where we're headed, and the future is bleak
as hell, more so than holding on to Kobe White
and then having to pay him what it costs to
keep him in free agency, because you could sit here
and say, well, there's actually gonna be fewer than to
ten teams with cap space and other teams with cap space,
how many of them are gonna go after Kobe White?
I agree with you. We were singing that same song
with Josh Giddy, and he's still got twenty five million
dollars a year. I think Kobe White, the idea of him,
is at least more valuable. Josh Gitty is better size,
better passer. He's going to get just as much. And
at that point it's, oh, you're fifty plus million dollars
a year in Kobe White and Josh Giddy, where are
you headed? And the odds of Kobe White's deal aging
poorly in Chicago versus somewhere else are pretty damn high.
Because the Bulls suck. They suck from just top to bottom.
They suck, and I think they'll move him. That's why
this is a risk. But I think there's a good
chance that they will actually move him. And this is
someone I view as okay, expiring contract. This is where
we get iffy, but he's cheap. The Bulls might be
able to take back some bad money. I think he
gets more than the equivalent of a first round pick.
And so if it's where a young player in a
first round pick, or maybe it's two first round picks,
one heavily protected, That's why I feel confident and take
him here. The bigger risk for me is not the value.
It's Chicago being Chicago. Basically.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew you were gonna say Kobe White this
and and this. The thing I was thinking is like,
what if it's just kaminga for Kobe White, Like, isn't
that a construction that might Like, that's that's plausible.
Speaker 1: And then for Kobe White and Javon Carter whatever.
Speaker 2: Who's sweetening it? Yeah? Who who technically wins that trade?
From our draft value perspective?
Speaker 1: Oh? From this, Oh that's interesting. I was looking at
it from the Warriors win the trade.
Speaker 2: Well, which, of course.
Speaker 1: I just think though that would be worse for my pick.
I think if the Bulls get Jonathan Kaminga is their
compensation for Kobe White, that's terrible for my for my
pick of Kobe White at seven.
Speaker 2: Right, it makes my yeah, if the warrior side of
it looks better unless somebody's thrown in picks. But who knows, Okay,
that's a totally logical pick. You don't keep drafting me
right now.
Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I was gonna like, I
think I'm picking some guys where it's oh, Trey Murphy,
Derek Whit, Kobe Who. So all the players I named,
where does Kobe White rank on the least to be traded?
Because he might be just I've had Derek White, Trey Murphy,
and Yannis and I feel like, ostensibly you should be
able to say, well, Kobe White's the most likely to
be traded of those four guys, and I don't, yeah,
because the Bulls are the Bulls. I don't know if
we'll say.
Speaker 2: That right in a if everyone were a rational actor,
Kobe White would be the most likely guy of those
four to be traded. But who knows, Okay, uh do
I go safe again. There's another guy that's like, I
know he's getting traded, but the return is not going
to be any good. I think I'm gonna swing big
again and just start the start the run on point
guards and I'm gonna take LaMelo ball. Oh I don't.
I don't think. Oh good, great, that makes me feel better.
I don't think he's gonna get traded. I think if
he does. We had this conversation earlier in the year
about like, well, if you got if you got him,
you got Trey Young and John Morant, who's the most
valuable and we were both like, well, it's LaMelo. Just
it just has to be right. Link the contract, youth
level of performance when healthy, like he's not. That's interesting
like Jaw or maybe Trey both, maybe Joe, both Jaw
and Trey have had higher peaks, but LaMelo's youth and
I don't know, like just seems like maybe he can
get back there. He's under he's on the rookie max still,
so Charlotte should be If Charlotte moves him, it should
get a lot. I think this should be back in
the two to three first rounders pretty comfortably and not
bad salary. I don't think so. I think I had
to pick him. I didn't really, I don't know. I'd
be curious where you're going next. I'm glad to hear
that you're upset that I picked him, though, because that
means that at least I wasn't on my own taking
that risk.
Speaker 1: I it's for him, It's just would the team actually
trade him when now there's more ankle stuff going on?
What are you actually gonna get for him? But I
think that.
Speaker 2: Destinations are kind of tricky, you know, just for all
the reasons you mentioned.
Speaker 1: But he was heavily I if you have told me
he would be traded, he's sling shots up like I
might have. I would have picked the honest and then
I don't. I might have put him ahead of Trey Murphy.
So I like that pick. It's super risky, and it's
kind of making me rethink what my own pick here
should be. What do you you predicted that you don't
think LaMelo Ball would be traded? Right? I think I
kind of agree with you because I'm trying to think
of the team and you mentioned this at the end
of your justification. What is the team that could really
talk itself into let's go in and get LaMelo ball
right now. It's maybe something after the Fred van Fleet injury.
Some people might have said Houston, but it's not Houston anymore.
They have a top three offense and defense. Reed Shepherd's
Ballin' is it? Who is it?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: I don't I think about Portland, but they have Dame
coming back next year. Scoot you had to play this season.
Speaker 2: I mean that we've talked about some version of that
where it's like Charlotte just says, well, we'll try Scoot.
We'll go for the Scoot experience. You can build a
deal around that. You guys are a little farther along
than we are. I'm allergic to talking about LaMelo trades
that you got to throw in quite a bit of
money on Portland side. But I don't know it. Again,
what are the percentage chance LaMelo is traded by this
year's deadline? Is it over under thirty?
Speaker 1: I think it's under okay.
Speaker 2: I think I'm think that I like, well, I'll say
one in three just to up it. I think it
just highly unlikely. I guess two thirds unlikely but possible.
And if he does move, then it's it won't be
for a for like a single first and bad money.
We're gonna we're talking a real return if he moves.
Speaker 1: I think I'd be fast. I'll be fascinated to talk
about the aftermath of that trade, what he went for.
If he does get moved, I will say that. So
we're od to me at pick number nine. I think
I'm gonna play it safe here. Since LaMelo balls off
the board, I'm going to go with Herb Jones. This
feels like I'm not just pillow the Pelicans. Although it's
funny that we have two players coming off the board,
neither of humors ion. This just feels as if it's
going to be, oh, some team just contender. They're not
super high up, but they traded two first round picks
for Herb Jones, and that that's my justification. You have
questions about him on offense, I think he does more
than people give him credit for, even if the shooting
is going to be a tad iffy, But just the
defense positionally where you could play him, how he basically
fits anywhere, and the number of teams right now that
could use really versatile and suffocating perimeter defenders. And you
look at his contract post extension. That's something that should
age fairly well as long as he stays healthy. So
this is I think my safest pick, even though I
might say he has less than a fifty percent chance
of being movers. I just oh, the Pelicans got two
first round picks for herb Jones. Here we are.
Speaker 2: I would be surprised if they got two. I think
he's more likely to be traded than you do, but
I think the return might be lower. I could see
one pretty comfortable.
Speaker 1: Oh really, so why would.
Speaker 2: You move him? Then? Like?
Speaker 1: What is the what else are you getting?
Speaker 2: I don't know that. It's the Pelicans man who knows
what they who knows how they value picks?
Speaker 1: Like the Lakers have to be wanting to give up
a pick and Ruie or I guess rue? Is he
really like a first? He's all right, that's fair. But
it's just even that, It's like, if I'm the Pelicans,
why would I do that?
Speaker 2: Why do the Pelicans do anything? I don't know? Uh, okay,
I think that's a good pick. I I have Zion
on my list. I don't I'm not going to pick him.
I have no idea how to value him, like, I
just can't. So maybe I'll leave him for you. If
you really want to sweep the Pelicans, if you want
to take sixty percent of the Pelicans healthy starting five,
go ahead. Uh. I think I need to be safe
because again I need to continue to balance here. So
I think, what is this guy going to go for?
It won't be a first am I just happy with
seconds now?
Speaker 1: Marshall ittt I respect.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna know if I get less for this guy
than Naugie Marshall, even though maybe you shouldn't, I'm gonna
take Keon Ellis. I think there is as good a
chance as anyone not named Jonathan Cominga that he's gonna
be traded like he's just playing less and less. It's
like a vanishingly small degree I love. How are you
looking for ke On Ellis's name to try to put
on the screen? Oh no, I have to you can say,
didn't have him on my board, grant.
Speaker 1: No typing them in real time anyway. So I'm just
I'm shocked because he's so cheap that he just feels
like a throw into another bad move that the Kings
are gonna make yourself.
Speaker 2: He's well, that's the thing is, there's a lot of
other Kings. We could mention here he's gonna get traded.
It's like it's viewed as basically a crime that he's
not playing by Kings fans, which I agree with. I
just don't understand. It's almost one of those situations where
you're like, what else is happening like in the locker room?
Is there something that just isn't out there? Because it's
I don't know how you justify not playing him, but
he isn't playing, and they'll just lose him for enough
if they don't move him. So and he fits anywhere.
Uh can make threes is a good point of attack,
defender can guard up a little bit, but he's gonna
be great against ones and twos makes nothing. Uh, He's
just like he's got to get traded. So I'm just
locking in minimal value because I might get zero out
of my first three picks.
Speaker 1: What what does he go for? You said he's not
getting it first, This is a second.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying I have any idea what he's gonna
go for. It might be next to nothing, but he's
gonna go so I'm gonna get something out of this pick.
Speaker 1: Man. You have me rethinking my strategy here. So I
feel like I was gonna take a little bit, a
little bit of a swing, and now I might need to.
I feel like I kind of want to play it
safe now I'm trying to.
Speaker 2: You could game it and take one of the one
of the bigger name kings that's probably gonna get traded,
and then you sort of cancel out my my.
Speaker 1: Lis pick who is the bigger name king that's gonna
get traded? Even because I'm trying to think of do
you think ke On Ellis is more likely to get
moved by himself or in tandem with one of sacrament
That's what I mean.
Speaker 2: You could if you think the answer is he's gonna
get moved as part of a deal, like he's gonna
sweeten a Sabonis, Levine or Derozen deal, then you could
just take one of those guys and then you cancel
them out.
Speaker 1: Oh man, this is tough. I don't I'm rethinking everything.
So I'm on the clock at number eleven. Who do
I want to take? This is tough. I feel like
I'm announcing my free agency decision.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm gonna further complicate your decision making by
saying you think, like the Lakers are gonna do something right,
So it's all like do you want to just should
you just pick a Laker? And then who is the problem.
Speaker 1: So I'm notoriously lower on the Lakers this season than
their records suggests. And it's I mean, I can't explain
it because I don't trust their defense. I don't think
they have enough two way talent. But it's also I'm
not trying to say that the Lakers have become underrated
or being victimized, but Ruy Hachimore can just be a
killer on offense or how many years with them, and
it's no, he has no value, Like he doesn't mean anything.
So I was tempted to think of him, but like,
who is the player they would move unless you want
if I want to take a swing and say Austin Reeves,
which I just don't believe in.
Speaker 2: I'm saying, like, if the Lakers do anything, you're gonna
have to use one of their mid sout like Vanderbilt,
Vincent connect Kliba. So pick one and assume and assume
he's gonna be attached to a pick and going out
and get you out.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna do that I think I'm gonna venture.
It's not probably as spicy as maybe some people. I'm
gonna venture off what I think is the beaten path. Okay,
I'm gonna select Dante Devincenzo.
Speaker 2: WHOA that was, He's on my list, but I, okay,
just explain.
Speaker 1: I think we've reached the point where Minnesota against good
teams has not looked all that great this year. As
valuable as Rudy Gobert has been on the defensive end,
they have one of the worst defenses against top ten
offenses in the league. Their offense, though, when you get
into crunch time, when you look at some of the
turnovers they committed, it's too relying on Anthony Edwards. All
your secondary ball handlers are just that secondary guys. Or
it's Mike Conley's getting too old. Rob Dillingham is not it,
and he would be if you thought there'd be a
team that might invest in him as a second draft guy.
But I can't. I don't know who they could get
for Rob Dillingham right now. I think he's part of.
Speaker 2: A bigger deal, right if he might be going in
the Devincenzo deal, And.
Speaker 1: So I look at it as Dante DiVincenzo is incredibly
useful for what they do, but doesn't give you enough.
Ball handling isn't critical enough to the defense that if
you're looking to either a get another kind of non
big defender in there, which I don't between Jade McDaniels
and Aunt and then Rudy and just knowing that Julius
Rannold's gonna play aton, I don't think that's a priority.
So if you're going to materially upgrade the ball handling
the offense that feels like the guy who needs to
get moved, it's not going to be Jaden. I don't
think like Randa would be if you wanted to take
a massive swing. But I don't know what Randalls market is.
I think Deven Chenda with someone who fits in more
places because he doesn't need the ball and because of
the high volume of three point shooting that he brings you,
and also because of the way that he can just
move and put pressure on defenses even when the rock
is not in his hands. And yes, he can still
do some things with the ball in his hands, and
I just don't want him running anything in the half court.
I think the Wolves need another player like that, And
if you're putting someone on the table, he's probably just
giving out things have gone for Rob Dillingham. His values
head and shoulders above that. I just if you put
Rob Dillingham on the are you getting more than a
second round like one? So, so second round pick for
Rob Dillingham at this point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well that's why you don't trade him, because it's
like you're never coming close to the eighth pick in
the draft value now, so it's just you just hold
on in hope. I think with him.
Speaker 1: Friend of the podcast Kyle Tige, him and Day Moore
do fantastic work over the Day More NBA show. He
had proposed on a semi recent podcast, and I'm not
shitting on him. I was actually floored to have someone
so pluged to the Wolves suggest this. He had proposed
Rob Dillingham for Chris Dunn and it was just like.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's where it is.
Speaker 1: That's a catastrophe on Minnesota's part. So shout out Kyle
for even if that's too doomsday, like, shout out for
going there. But I went this route because I think
that I don't I don't think they'll target a first
round pick in return. For Dante DiVincenzo. But I could
see a contender if they have one giving up. I
more so just view it as if they want to
get or maybe it's splitting him up into two guys
to where it's, oh, we get kind of a secondary
ball handling guy or maybe a wing defender, and like
though they're super cheap, or it's like you said, it
could just be part of a bigger deal. And then
does that if he's paired We talked about this a
little bit with Jonathan Kaminga. But if someone who we
think has real standalone trade value gets paired with like
you can very clearly see de Vincenzo's doing the heavy
lifting in a trade where he's partnered with Rob Dillingham.
Does that help my case or is it too hard
to We'll have to.
Speaker 2: Put it to a case. It'll be a case by
case situation where we form a committee and vote on
what percentage of the trade return he's actually responsible for.
I thought you were gonna say, like, what if he's
he adds to a Julius Randall trade for like a
big name or something, how much how much credit do
you get for Devincenzo being in that deal? Like it
could go either way, so we'll we'll form the committee.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've heard, though, but the Wolves
have interest in Giannis, and so if if Devincenzo's in
the trade for Giannis, I feel I probably just win.
Speaker 2: Well if if so, then you get credit. I lose.
Speaker 1: I lose because Giannis was my first pick.
Speaker 2: And right, so then your return for Giannis was Dante DiVincenzo.
Then you look pretty good, and you look pretty good,
all right, So it's it's up to me. I've got
two more picks here. I'm tempted to just lean into
the riskiness because that's more fun to talk about.
Speaker 1: I will let you know that I'm taking at least
one drunken Swing's like, there's so.
Speaker 2: Many appealing drunken swings on the board. Still, Uh, I'm
gonna I think I'm gonna split the difference a little bit.
Speaker 1: Here, and I'm with the baby.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna split the baby. I'm gonna cut it right
in half. I'm gonna go with Tobias Harris. And the
theory is, if the Pistons do anything of consequence, I
think he's in the deal. And there haven't been indications
to this point yet that they're interested in that. I
think two months is a long time. I think some
other names might emerge on the market, and I think
if you're the Pistons, the other the safer route would
have been to go Jade and Ivy probably, but I
think he's added into any bigger deal. This is just
if the Pistons do something to add a starting caliber player,
Harris's salary sort of has to be in it. And
in theory, this is a player who would probably replace
Harris positionally in your closing lineup. Again, not super likely.
It's just like if you're trying to figure out how
the Pistons go from where they are, which is very
good to like, maybe great. I think Harris just has
to be in any deal, doesn't he, because how else
are you getting there if not using his salary.
Speaker 1: It's interesting to see how there is a stark difference
like how we've interpreted this exercise, because I was looking
at players who I thought would have standalone value and
it's just not like if if they could be stacked
into a larger trade like Tobias Harris. To me, no
one's calling the Pistons with the intention to go Okay,
that's a fair point.
Speaker 2: Is this unfair? Is am I going against because I
can repick if you feel like this is going against.
Speaker 1: The exercise, I don't. I'm okay with I'm okay with you, oh,
because then you could come back and say, well, look,
Tobias Harris was moved for Larry Marketing, right, And.
Speaker 2: It's kind of what we alluded to earlier, where it's like,
do you get credit in a honest trade if if
you use Devincenzo as your trade candidate.
Speaker 1: I've I think I speak for our three hundred person
board group that will be evaluating this afterwards when I
say you will not, but you are free to keep
Tobias Harris. We will not be receiving a ton of
credit for his trade value if they attach picks and
J and IVY to him.
Speaker 2: For so, I don't. If the market and trade everybody
wants happens and Tobias Harris is outgoing, I guess that
hurts me too, because because I lose out on the
marketing side of it. But it looks pretty good if
Tobias Harris is the reason you get No. Okay, No,
you're convincing me. I think I'm going against the spirit
of the exercise a little bit, because he wouldn't be
the thing that like, hey, we want this, whereas I
think everyone else we've chosen is a player that a
team would call and say, we want this guy. So
I'm gonna I'm gonna make you delete Tobias Harris. I
think it's only fair to keep in the spirit of this.
Speaker 1: I'm leaving this discussion and I just time. The real
twelfth overall pick is now is being made. This we'll
know who listened to the twelve and twelve twelve.
Speaker 2: B All right, I'm gonna change it and go who's calling?
I like this. I like this framing, like who's calling
and saying we want that this player? What do you
give us?
Speaker 1: I feel I'm gonna have to take this guy if
you don't want that's my last pick. Though I didn't
realize that I have to take with my last pick.
You should, so I think you should take Zion because
I don't want to have to take I don't want
to take him either.
Speaker 2: It feels only right that you take Zion I have.
I have two picks. Maybe I'll take him with the
last pick. All right. Someone might call and ask for oh,
this name just jumped out at me. H, is it
jumping out though? This is this is not good pop.
Speaker 1: This is this is excellent podcasting. This is why the exercise.
We talked about this and have been thinking about it
for days, basically a week at this point, and it's
still so tough to kind of figure out which way
you want to go.
Speaker 2: Right Uh, Okay. The way Dan that I am going
to go is towards a guy named John Morant, because
I would just.
Speaker 1: Like to say, I respect you delaying the cadence of
your delivery so that you could figure out it.
Speaker 2: Really yeah, so I could scan my list a few
more times and just let the moment seize me. Similar
logic to LaMelo, where you're kind of like judging the
situation and some of the rumblings, although I would say
that there have been even fewer, like actual like there
hasn't been a report even if it was refuted in
the case of LaMelo, where Morant like maybe wants to
explore his options or get out, and I think his
value is very difficult to determine because of everything we've
talked about all season, the distraction stuff, the off court stuff,
the suspensions, the injuries, the declining production, all that stuff.
I can just still imagine someone It's easier to imagine,
just to draw some contrast someone calling the Memphis Grizzlies
and saying, what's it going to take for John Morant
than it is to imagine someone calling the Pistons and saying, buddy,
we got to have Tobias Harris, what will you take
for him? Yeah, so that's a risky pick. But if
Ja Morant is traded, even though like it's a fraction
of what it would have been three years ago, I
think he's still got value where it's like there's a
first going to Memphis and it's a real first at least,
and then maybe some decent young players too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was about to say, if you're Memphis, you're
running Memphis, what is the bare minimum that you would be?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 1: Is it? I know it matters the quality of the
picks and prospects, but if you're just trying to assign
a baseline number to it, it has to be a
minimum of two.
Speaker 2: No, and you can't. To me, it's more I think, sure,
I just stopped at one because like I'm positive it's one,
but the money coming back, I think if I'm Memphis.
I'm of the I'm of the stance that like I'm
not taking longer term worse money, like this isn't a
this isn't a dump like from memphisis perspective. This can't
just be like we want off this contract. I think
you're still trading him if you're trading him for like
some version of positive value, I think, and that's like
positive value might be the wrong term, but you know
what I mean, You're not just you're not just taking
anything to get rid of him, because you're not trading him.
If that's what it looks like.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you, since you picked him over a
tray Young, what separates? Is it just you don't believe
in Latto and move Trey Young? Or is it you
think John Moran's inherently more valuable? Is it the contract situation?
What factors into that?
Speaker 2: I think One, John Morant's more interesting to talk about.
Two I think I think he probably gets a little.
I can imagine like a single team offering more for
John Morant because they've talked themselves into like he's still
at an age where there's prime years left, let's ignore
the health and stuff. Whereas with Young, you're dealing with
the same thing we talked about with if you wait
too long on Yannis, like you've got the free agency coming,
you've got all this other stuff you've got to worry
about with Young Based on the length of the contract,
you can make the counter that like, well, the length
of Jaws contract is a problem the other way, but
the amount of it. But I don't know that it
could go either way. Are you gonna take Trey at thirteen?
Speaker 1: No? At thirteen. I think I'd like to give you
three guesses to see who you might think. Do you
want to take a shot, and you could use Trey,
but I've already told you no, So you.
Speaker 2: Have to give me a hint, like what kind of
pick is this? Define what kind of pack maximum return,
low odds of being traded, or like, you really do
think this guy is getting traded and the return is
not like superstar level.
Speaker 1: I will yes, it's the latter, but I will say
he's not someone who's been in the rumor mail. And
I'll also say he's in the Western conference Kawhi Leonard, No,
that's a good one. I did think about him, though
he's on my list.
Speaker 2: I'll take two more. Malik monk.
Speaker 1: No, hasn't he been in the rumor mail?
Speaker 2: I don't know. Oh that's the thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, kings I got.
Speaker 2: I got at least three more UH Western Conference not
in the rumor mill. So let's see.
Speaker 1: No, that's a that's that would have been that you
pick of like along the lines of the bio.
Speaker 2: Right. So I was ready to put him on my
short list, and then I remembered that.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I don't know, So I'm going
to go with Kant George. Okay, he's averaging like twenty
three points career high and assists. What does he add?
He's at six point eight assists per game. The passing
has improved, he looks more patient than he is in
the offensive end. Still a wildly inefficient pull up shooter,
still gets it done, can still get it done in
spot of situations, getting to the foul line more shooting
over ninety percent when you get there. He has another
year left on his rookie scale. And if I'm the Jazz,
based off what I've seen this season, I'm confident in
saying that Keante George is a much better player than
I thought, and he has no business running my offense
long term if I'm trying to make the playoffs, and
I think what's fascinating to me about him and why
could argue picking him higher, is if there's a team
that's expensive and needs help as a ball handler, maybe
off the bench, they might look at a cost controlled
year this season and next of Kiante George. Just give
you first round equity outright, Or he's kind of he's
twenty two years old, he's kind of a carot if
they want to make So if they just decided they
want to go after this in the best fit because
they've Jeremiah Field's fears there. But if Utah decides it
wants to be the design on Williamson team and they
were willing to put Kiante George on the table, he
has appeal in that direction. And so I think he
could be used in so many different ways as either
the Jazz are a seller or the Jazz are a
buyer that I could look back at the package and
math it out and say, like he was a pretty
if he if they if they trade him for first
round picks, it's easy to gauge his value. But if
they move him as part of their own, you know
what we want LaMelo Ball, or we're the Ja Morant team,
or just even if they just if they offered him
to Houston Fertari, he said in a first round pick,
like I think I can look back at that and say, okay,
that was that was like make like he did some
interesting trade value there, and I wanted to take I
don't think he's going to be traded. I believe he
should be just base. He's going to be extension as
well after this season. But I wanted to step out
on some sort of a lamb, and I think the
closest I came to doing that was maybe Trey Murphy.
So that that is the justification behind this. But I
also wanted to see if I could surprise you, and
I think you did.
Speaker 2: You did surprise me. But and I hadn't really thought
of him as the trade candidate, which is weird because
that is the type of player. If I'm Utah, I'd
be looking to move like may like pretty good bump
to his value certainly relative to last year.
Speaker 1: And you have all this guard depth to like Brice
sense of bas Rolls whatever right now. So I'm not
saying any of he's not as good he's been the
passing improvement like him leading the offense. The numbers still
aren't great, but it's oh you kind of trust it
more and I would absolutely move him in most year time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the tricky thing is to for this to
make sense, Utah has to view his growth this year
as like value recovery as opposed to, oh, he's if
he can get this much better in one off season
like that, now the trend arrow's going up like this
is so we do want to keep him, which I
I think I share some of your skepticism, just because
like some of the decision making and the like still
got got a little bit of chucker in him. That
concerns me. So I could see Utah deciding we've seen
enough and we don't necessarily buy that yet. Right, you've
said it great for like what did you say, Like
you're you're you love the growth and you don't want
anything to do with him running your offense, Like I think.
Speaker 1: That No, No, I mostly not against what it's probably
gonna cost to keep.
Speaker 2: Him, uh huh uh huh yeah, because he might be
a thirty million a year guy.
Speaker 1: Right, and also, just are you good enough to justify
paying you already have lowry market and if you want
him to be your temp pole next to as Bailey, Okay, fine,
but you have to align certain things and there's only
so much room for or like, you just can't have
two standout salaries two years from now if you're not
ready to contend. Okay, I think, is that a sufficient
use of my my last pick?
Speaker 2: It is? It is? And now you've left Zion on
the board, and I do I'm not happy with you
about it. I think I'm gonna go. I gotta lean.
I'm still gonna go, like max return if this guy
actually gets.
Speaker 1: Good, I think, honestly, and I think the final pick,
because no one's gonna look back. I mean maybe they will.
They're gonna look back and say, oh, the last two picks,
you didn't get them right. This is this is the
actual draft where it's the end of the lottery. Why
wouldn't you just take this massive swing.
Speaker 2: We're taking shots on upside. We just care about upside.
We're not drafting number four position, not going for position.
I am tempted to take Kawhi since like he could
reasonably be traded.
Speaker 1: If I trusted the Clippers to make the right decision.
Of you to Zoobots would have absolutely have been one
of them.
Speaker 2: He's on my board under first round pick for sure,
with with some other guys like that. But I just
I just don't know if they're gonna do it. Even
though all the talk we we had about him was
so tantalizing with the hypothetical thunder trades, that just probably
won't happen. All right, I'm gonna go upside. I'm going
to take who's gonna get more between?
Speaker 1: I love this, I love the I love the real
time trying to figure it out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just like, is this guy worth two firsts?
Is he worth three? And he's got to be somewhat
in the rumor mill. I think I'm gonna take Tyler
Hero Tyler Hero uh, and I hate it. I already
hate it.
Speaker 1: I was wondering if I was supposed to comments when
there was no.
Speaker 2: It's just it's there's a couple other players here. We
will go, We'll go through a bunch more names once
we get it's officially on the board. If the pick
is in, it's Tyler Hero. I think the Heat are
gonna do something. I think Hero is gonna be key
the key asset out going because you can't like take
like you could say khalil Ware, you could say Andrew Wiggins.
But I think any big deal Miami makes, Hero's gonna
be the main asset headed out, unless you like, we're
not trading first round picks or whatever.
Speaker 1: And I think what's tough is too just for the
kohlil Ware aspect. And we went through this a little
bit with others and it's it's a good analog for
the Keyante George Pick. I could see the Jazz moving
Keyante George is just the standalone move. I can't see
the Heat unless they're making a blockbuster trade saying yeah,
we'll trade khalil Ware for maybe I guess if they're
getting their own pick back from Charlotte. But even that, yeah,
a little fuzzy.
Speaker 2: No, I think it's uh, it's it's the opposite of
the Tobias Harris pick that never was because, yeah, Harris
is probably going out in a big deal, but he's
not the reason it's happening. I think from the acquiring
team's perspective, Tyler Hero would be the reason that a
Heat trade is happening, Like he'll be the principal asset
going out if the heat trade for whoever. So how
likely is it that Hero gets traded? I don't know,
man Like it's it's hard to I think it's there's
a decent chance, but he's got to be down below.
Just to look at the names that have gone like,
I think like Derek White's probably more likely to be traded,
Herb Jones, all your various Pelicans, for example, more likely
to move to say nothing of like Kobe White and
Kaminga and Ellis and those types. But close it out
with Tyler Hero.
Speaker 1: Do you could you see them moving Tyler Hero in
a standalone deal that's more of like we reloaded our
pick deck for a future trade. Or do you think
it's only if they make a big move for a
big name.
Speaker 2: I'd say it's much much, much more likely in a
trade for a big name, because I guess unless you're
worried about the next contract and you just want to
get out ahead of it, I don't know if you're
moving him like just for stuff, but maybe like could
get something. He could run your offense, like if if
you're the Jazz and you want to you want to
just upgrade the guard spot. I think Hero makes more
sense than Keante George for example, So maybe they get
swapped for each other.
Speaker 1: That's an interesting pick, I guess because if the terms
feel so finite, that's what would like I would have.
I like it. I just don't know what have we
gone through When the Miami Heat had been linked to
these marketing names, it's always what value does Tyler Hero
have to other teams? And so they get in on
the Yannis sweepstakes? Does he appeal to a Bucks team
that doesn't have their own picks?
Speaker 2: I think he is any from Milwaukee. This this is
what I've been building towards I ruining your number one
overall pick by getting to say I got you honest
for Tyler Hero. Uh, let's you want to go through
some names, like maybe we put them in categories here,
did you have any other players that so for example,
I had the first round picks for sure category, but
you know who knows how likely they are to be traded?
And this is where like we're relying you know, if
they have to have been in the rumor mill. We're
lying on like pretty hazy stuff generally speaking. But is
there a name that you just couldn't pick because it
didn't seem likely enough? But the return would be massive.
Speaker 1: Uh, so zion and trade don't really fall into that bucket.
Try to think just Austin Reeves was one if the
Lakers didn't want to worry about maximum out. But if
it doesn't seem like Lebron is going to stay there
or they're not he's not going to stay there for
real money, then it's I don't know why they would
move him. Zion felt like the toughest cut, but it
wasn't a value thing. It felt almost I wonder if
we should have played up the likelihood of him more.
Just at this point, wouldn't you expect the Pelicans to just, oh, yeah,
expiring money and a second, sure, we'll take it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well that's his contract with the non guarantee. Because
as far as I understand, it's still they because he's
not going to hit the games played or he already
hasn't hit the games played threshold, they can just void
the rest this summer, right, and it's just like he
can just be off the books. Essentially. I think that's
the So if you're a team that's looking to trade
something for him, it's like it's kind of like the
old like, well, we could just sign him or or
why are we giving up stuff to get him? Let
alone like a godfather offer that's not gonna happen. What
do you I'll give you three names here, Jared Jackson, Junior,
Darius Garland and Demonas Sabonis are all guys as like
I could see it, and you've seen whispers about all
of them, but I just couldn't. The likelihood felt too
low for various reasons.
Speaker 1: All of those feel like well, the Jackson and Garland
situations would feel very off season to me, and Sibonis,
I'd be worried about the value. I'd probably give up
more for Sabonis than the average front office would.
Speaker 2: I think he's getting you first, a first or two, probably, right, Sabonis,
I don't think you're getting into the three or four range.
Speaker 1: I mean I was listening to the Timeline podcast the
other day and they were positing whether they would do
Mark Williams and Jalalen Green for Sabonis, and I think
they both agreed they would not, And so that made
me think, if this is how other fan bases feel
about the bonus, I would think he would get you
at least one first round pick. Yeah, for sure, I
would think but.
Speaker 2: So also just Leonard and Harden. I don't know, like
you know, they'd get you something, but that's hard to
judge a name. I'm surprised neither of us got to
And maybe it's just the value. Is Anthony Simons like
the guy that the moment he became a Celtic everyone
assumed he would be traded. I think it's just what's
he gonna get you on an expiring deal.
Speaker 1: I honestly, I don't know what they could trade him
for to be I don't know that it's positive money. Yeah,
and at that they're trying to shave money so I
can get bad money that's actually less than what he makes.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. Do you think do you think they'll just
let his deal expire? Do you think that's the most
likely outcome.
Speaker 1: I have no idea what Boston's going to do at
this point. They are way better than I expected. But
I'm looking at it from the perspective of this season's
been kind of cool. You're not going to win a title.
Why are you paying the tax and subjecting yourselves to
potential restrictions down the line. Unless the plan is we're
in the tax this year, we're gonna be out for
the next two years, or in which case Derek White
has just gone. I'm assuming anyway, which makes my pick
look great, it'd be I I think he I think
he gets moved. Even if it doesn't save the money,
maybe it gets them a contract that's on the books
for next year, so it's easier to kind of move
around money because you look at the problem with their
books is once you get past Jalen Brown and Derek
White and Jason Tatum, it's it's not you've a for
me Simon's and then who's the salary anchor to move
Sam Houser. Maybe that could have been someone we consider,
but he hasn't had the.
Speaker 2: Best year, So they trade Simons for like a two
guy on a two or three year it has two
or three years left that less.
Speaker 1: Money right, like a Terrence Man would be Oh, do
they duck the tax before they come awfully close? If
they don't, or is it maybe it's could it be
something like would Charlotte because they have so much room
under the tax consider Colin Sexton for Simon and maybe
they get a second round pick, and then Boston's almost
ducked the tacks at that point.
Speaker 2: Another Bill is on my list, but more so like
I think he's going to be traded, I don't think.
I don't think he's getting the value.
Speaker 1: Stuff is that there are guys that I assume are
going to be traded, and I just didn't know what
to do the value. I thought about Tari Eastan, but
I don't know what just because he's coming up on
his next deal. But if you're I don't know, like
they could decide over the summer to go in for
Grannis and then your Barr Smith Junior is coming out,
so keeping Tarry Easton maybe isn't as prohibitive. I just
don't know what you get for someone who is just
so defensively chaotic, like in a good way, fits a
lot of what other teams are doing offensively, but the
availability and minutes are always all over the place, and
you have to pay him another name. I almost picked
as with my last pick. Yeah, go ahead, MP, No,
I don't is he gonna get positive? Has he been
good enough to get value?
Speaker 2: He's been really good. And I was just thinking, like
if you're in the market in and Trey Murphy market
and you're like, well, I can't give up what's going
to cost for them. If I'm willing to pay him,
I'm gonna have to give up way less for MPJ.
Speaker 1: Tobias Harris could have gotten new MPJA if you stuck
with that pig.
Speaker 2: Okay, who was your guy?
Speaker 1: Emmanuel quickly into I.
Speaker 2: Had Barrett on my list, interestingly.
Speaker 1: Which I get that, I just don't know what I
think Quickly still has more standalone value, and I also
think he's probably more important to the best version of
the Raptors. But the Raptors have been the past two
or three weeks have not been the best version of
the Raptors either, So I thought I thought about him.
I don't know if there were any other compell tray,
obviously I thought about he feels of the If you
were to rank the Jaw LaMelo tray, which one of
those three do you think is least likely to get moved?
I kind of thought it was Trey.
Speaker 2: At the moment. At the moment, it's I actually kind
of think it's Jaw, even though I picked him, just like, uh,
but it's not LaMelo, So it's got to be either
Trey or Jaw. Do you think I kind of think
that Atlanta isn't wrong in wanting to see if it
can like make the new stuff that works work with
the old stuff that works. So like, once Trey is back,
can you still get all this out of Jalen Johnson
and Alexander Walker? Like, I think it's kind of like
the responsible move to kind of check in on that
for a few months and see if it's like is
there a can we have it both ways kind of thing?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Right, what about?
Speaker 1: What was it? And the name just escaped me?
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure what his value would be or even
if they would want to move him given their situation.
But Dylan Brooks in Phoenix, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, his value is probably about as high as it's
ever been the way he's played.
Speaker 1: The shot making this year for the most part. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I wrote something the other day about how uncomfortable
it should make Phoenix fans that like he's taking like
three tenths of a shot per game, fewer than Devin Booker.
Just like he's really exploring the space and it's gone great.
But like, I just don't know how confident i'd be
in that. Yeah, I mean in terms of if you're
a really good team and you kind of want the
guy that you know you're gonna be able to rely
on for something at a high level. He's he's interesting.
I there's a class of players, so they just three.
We talked about Dillingham a lot, but there's two other
guys that I kind of lumped in there, even though
they're further along career wise, Benedict Matherin, Jade and Ivy.
We talked about Ivy a little bit, but like Matherin
and Ivy, both are guys that, like I think their
teams would move them. I just don't know what their
values are. The theory would be that restricted free agency
is so team friendly now that you might be willing
to give up more than you would have in the
past for guys that are gonna hit restricted free agency
because there's so much value to be had in signing
them and keeping them around through RFA. It's just way
easier to do that cheaply now than it seems like
it has been in a long time. So maybe there's
value there.
Speaker 1: That's a good point I looking at it for Mathern's
perspective specifically, I have thought about a team would want
to stay away for that reason, because you're giving up
value for someone who's going to be coming off, even
if they're in RFA. I just averaged over twenty points
a game or whatever and shot forty percent from the three,
you're gonna be expected, and then you're kind of beholden.
You could play the whole but like, once you give
up something for them, they do have leverage, it's like, oh,
you're just gonna let me walk. I just think.
Speaker 2: It's it's teams are in such powerful spots now, or
if maybe I'm overrating this past offseason where every team
just like put the screws to its restricted free agents acceptables,
uh where, Whereas maybe that's going to be the new normal.
But you're right, like that might have just been a
one off thing. I still think. I don't know, would
I would still be interested in Ivy if I'm the Pistons,
But if I'm the Piston, I mean, if I'm another team,
but if I'm the Pistons. Kind of like the Trey
Young thing, I kind of want to give this a
few more weeks and months to see if like the
guy we think we're looking for might just be Ivy
if you can get his minutes back up, Like, I
don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the guy, the guys who are approaching restricted free
agency or so even the Kobe White going into understreeted
free agency. It's so tough because of them going into
the more open market or semi open market, and you
have to pay them, So how much are they willing
to get? And then also we're talking about maybe not
with all three of them, but they could all be
considered problematic archetypes where there.
Speaker 2: Are these days.
Speaker 1: None of them are league guards and none of them
are true wings, and so what's the value on them.
Did you give any thought to any of Minnesota's bigs, Randall,
Knas or Rudy Gobert?
Speaker 2: Not really, Maybe I should have. I mean I mentioned
Randall in it when you had Devincenzo on the board.
I keep circling back to like you paid reed As
if you kind of anticipated a bigger role for him.
I think, I mean, I don't know, Like with the
new cap, maybe that's not as that five for one
twenty five isn't quite what it seems like. But at
the very least you're comfortable with Reid taking on a
larger role if you trade one or your other bigs,
So like, for that reason, I think it probably should
consider at least Randall and Gobert. But like we talked
last time about how Gobert is just like it's terrifying
how important he seems to be to the team right now. Yeah,
so I don't know if you can you do.
Speaker 1: I don't know that I had anyone else that stands
out or if there's even just mega duper swings. Jaron
Brown doesn't seem like a good one to talk about.
Speaker 2: No smaller scale like Nick Claxon Jared Allen are guys
I could see moving. I don't know what you're getting.
Speaker 1: I give up some nasty stuff for Jared Allen.
Speaker 2: Still a team that just needs a center like I
and maybe that I don't know if the calves feel
like what real quick? Are you panicking on the calves?
Are you like more inclined to do something or you Oh,
I forgot we talked when we talked last time, You're like,
they're coming out of the East, they got no problems.
Speaker 1: Well I wouldn't say no problems. The Knicks exist, and
if the Magic ever get healthy, they also exist. In
the Pistons exist. But I just they've been so injured
this year. I know what I know. Darius Garland hasn't
looked great and I know people wanted more from Evan Mobley,
and I know it feels like a lots on Donnovan
Mitchell shoulders. But I don't know. I'm just not come
talk to me after January fifteenth or something. I suppose.
I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's one of those where I feel like Minnesota had
this at some point last year where we started to
panic a little bit, and it's like, how silly that
looked in February or March. You know. The Cows kind
of feel like that team where it's like we'll look
back and be like, hey, remember when we thought the
Cavs had like a real issue.
Speaker 1: I was funny, but we're not. You know, this isn't
This might be us overthinking it too, because they're eighth
in the East and the only team in the second
aprin and so there's a level of just there's urgency area.
Speaker 2: I mean, the Wolves weren't exactly cheap last year when
they were going through it, and we were concerned.
Speaker 1: But also the West is brutal, yeah, and the East
is you know, no, I think the.
Speaker 2: Real issue is like if Darius Garland just is gonna
the toe is just never going away, and this is
just who he is for the rest of the year.
Then it's like, I don't know what you do to
solve that problem because that's the guy you would trade
and you can't him because he's hurt. But unless that's
the that's gonna be the way things are. It's hard
to get too worked up still about Cleveland.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't what would be the Where would you
be at? Is it the thirty five? Like is it
just give it half the season and then like we'll panic,
or because they are as we're recording, there's they're twenty
seven games in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not it. That's not insignificant. I'd say, like
I'd give it another Well, I what I want to
say is like, let me see all four of those
guys healthy for a while, and what it looks like.
Speaker 1: They've played like fifty seven minutes or something insane.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. And but then the counter is like, well,
that's not going to happen before the trade deadline, Like
you're not going to get three uninterrupted weeks of all
four of those guys healthy before the deadline. So it's
kind of unfair to say I'd like to give it till, say,
February fourth, or so, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because when is when is Mobi? How long is
he supposed to be out for?
Speaker 2: I think it's two to two to four weeks we have.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that might be.
Speaker 2: You're in, you're an You're less than a month from
the deadline by the time he's back.
Speaker 1: And it's also a calve strain, So that's the that's
the you know Tom Haberstrozer just wrote about this, or
you though, no, like this is right?
Speaker 2: What's going on with calves? This is I mean it
feels like.
Speaker 1: Going on with calves and calves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, look at us. We should stop right there.
Uh and maybe we will. You got anything else to add?
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think there's any Well, now that you
have me panicked on the calves, should they be? Would
you could you have done? If you really wanted to
be ultra specific, you could have just picked Evan Mobley
and thought they might have gone for your honest.
Speaker 2: Hmm, sure, I mean that'd be a risky move. I
don't know how much that.
Speaker 1: That's a one player swing, because it's not they're not
moving mobile for anything other than don't they might even
have moved yet mobile for your honest, but they.
Speaker 2: Might not and he's not really been in the rumor
mill at all, but that hasn't didn't really stop us
on some of our other picks either. Yeah, that that
what would be the ultimate the like, this guy has
a one percent chance of getting traded, but if he
does get traded, you're getting everything you can't take Wimby
or Jokic or Sga. Devin Boole is a pretty good
one because like, it's not zero it's not it's not
a zero percent chance that the Cavs would trade Mobile
if you honest were available.
Speaker 1: If it was for Jannest But what's the other player is?
It's just him?
Speaker 2: Right, That's why you just pick you Honis in the
draft exercise, because he's way more likely to be traded
and you'll get someone like Mobiley probably if he does.
Speaker 1: I had thought the other some other names, so I
did mention Naji Marshall throughout the draft. That felt like
a safe he could get X, but it's would the
MAVs actually move him. I thought about Max Christy too
a little bit, where he's not a really good good
for that matter. Goffer, Yeah, that's a good one as well.
So Derek Livey would have been fun if he never
got injured again and out for the season, he might
have made it.
Speaker 2: That's such a bummer. I just I just like, I don't.
I don't love the foot injuries for the big guys.
That doesn't You can't.
Speaker 1: Could you have talked to yourself like or is there
just no value here? What about a Jimmy Butler?
Speaker 2: I mean, he's so if the Warriors do anything beyond
the cominga stuff like Draymond Green is is someone that
I would probably move before I moved Butler at this point,
just because he's looked so bad.
Speaker 1: I just could they they're never gonna trade him, I
don't think trading And what do they get for him?
If they do, I think you probably still get more
for Butler.
Speaker 2: I think you do too. The thing is like, if
you're trading Butler, you're probably trying to we run into
this all the time. You like, want a guy that
does the things Butler does, but who's better than Butler?
And who's giving that guy up for Butler at his
age with his contract? Like it's yeah, it's a weird,
weird thing. He could I mean, if he is someone
I could imagine if they're getting in the Anthony Davis
bidding situation or Giannis or whatever like it. Almost Butler
almost has to be in that deal, just otherwise you're
giving up half your team for that kind of Wait.
Speaker 1: Can you even get to Davis's money without including Butler
or Draymond?
Speaker 2: Uh? Well, you start with kaminga, but that's only what
twenty two something this year? Yeah, yeah, you probably have to.
Just Butler just has to be in it.
Speaker 1: I guess it would be funny if they ended up
somehow trading Jonathan Camo for Andrew Wiggins back. That'd be funny.
Speaker 2: Can I tell you something, I'd love it. I'd be
doing backflips every time I watch the heat. I'm like,
there's my guy. I'm always gonna love Andrew Wiggins.
Speaker 1: That might be the perfect spot to end it, unless
you have anything else to add.
Speaker 2: Nope, I just want to say hi to my buddy
Andrew and wish him well.
Speaker 1: A preemptive welcome back.
Speaker 2: We're always, We're all anytime you're ready, buddy, bring it,
come on back. That's gonna do it for us. Thanks
everybody for listening, for watching. Please weigh in, because this
was a convoluted sort of exercise where you could have
gone a lot of different convoluted pejorative. It was a
tricky You could have gone a lot of different ways
with these picks, So let us know who you would
have gone with if you're balancing likelihood of being traded
and return package. Also, just let us know who won
the draft, because we're gonna have to wait like two
months to figure that out.
Speaker 1: I think it was Dann, but no pressure everybody.
Speaker 2: I kind of think so too, but that's okay. Let
us know what you think about silver dollars. Are you
jealous that I found one in my house? I know?
Dan rate review. Subscribe, Tell your friends, tell your enemies.
Join our discord links for that from the YouTube and
podcast description. We'll talk to you guys next time. Shout
Frank Nolakin. Apologies, Jared Allen