WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.240 Hello, It is Ryan and I was on a flight 2 00:00:02.279 --> 00:00:04.480 the other day playing one of my favorite social spin 3 00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:07.080 slot games on chumbacasino dot com. I looked over at 4 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:08.919 the person sitting next to me, and you know what 5 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:11.720 they were doing. They were also playing Chumba Casino. Coincidence, 6 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:14.240 I think not everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumpa 7 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:16.640 Casino's home to hundreds at casino style games. You can 8 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:20.519 play for free anytime, anywhere, even at thirty thousand feet. 9 00:00:20.600 --> 00:00:22.879 So sign up now at Chumbuck Casino dot com to 10 00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:26.199 claim you're free. Welcome bonus, that's Chumbuck Casino dot com 11 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:29.239 and live the Chumba lne No necessary dvoid whereab By 12 00:00:29.239 --> 00:00:32.000 lost in terms of conditions eighteen plus. With Lucky Land Slots, 13 00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:34.439 you can get lucky just about anywhere. 14 00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:38.039 Really, beloved, we are gathered here today. Has anyone seen 15 00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:38.880 the bride and groom? 16 00:00:39.399 --> 00:00:41.039 Sorry? Sorry, we're here. 17 00:00:41.240 --> 00:00:43.079 We were getting lucky in the limo when we lost 18 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:43.640 track of time. 19 00:00:44.359 --> 00:00:47.200 No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that add up 20 00:00:47.240 --> 00:00:48.439 quicker than a guess registered. 21 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:50.840 But in that case, I pronounce you lucky. 22 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:53.880 Play for free at Lucky Landslots dot com. 23 00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:55.359 Daily bonuses are waiting. 24 00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:58.240 No purchase necessary boid, We're prohibited by Way eighteen plus 25 00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:00.759 terms and conditions applaing see website for details. 26 00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:03.799 Lo it is Ryan here and I have a question 27 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:07.040 for you. What do you do when you win? Like? 28 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:10.280 Are you at fist pumper, a woo, a handclapper, a 29 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:12.120 high fiver? I kind of like the high five. But 30 00:01:12.200 --> 00:01:13.840 if you want to hone in on those winning moves, 31 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:17.079 check out Chumbuck Casino. At chumbacasino dot com, choose some 32 00:01:17.239 --> 00:01:19.840 hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to 33 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:23.640 redeem serious cash prizes. There are new game releases weekly, 34 00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:26.599 plus free daily bonuses, so don't wait. Start having the 35 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:30.159 most fun ever at Chumbuck Casino dot com. Nope, brig necessary, 36 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:32.599 dally ripod wherever I lost the terms conditions eating plus. 37 00:01:32.799 --> 00:01:33.760 Lucky Land Casino. 38 00:01:33.879 --> 00:01:36.719 Asking people what's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 39 00:01:37.079 --> 00:01:37.400 Lucky? 40 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:39.920 In line at the Delhi, I guess ahi, in my 41 00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:43.519 dentist's office more than once. Actually do I have to say? 42 00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:43.920 Yes? 43 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:44.159 You do? 44 00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:47.400 In the car before my kid's PTA meeting? Really? 45 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:50.519 Yes, excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 46 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:52.359 I never win and tell. 47 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:53.319 Well, there you have it. 48 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:56.120 You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslots dot 49 00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:58.959 com play for free. Right now, are you feeling lucky? 50 00:01:59.040 --> 00:01:59.239 Nope? 51 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:02.519 Necessary for eighty plus nissy else. 52 00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:15.680 You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking 53 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:18.800 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 54 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:26.159 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 55 00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:29.879 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 56 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:34.520 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 57 00:02:34.919 --> 00:02:49.719 journalist and author Dan Zupanski. On the morning of September twelfth, 58 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:55.479 twenty thirteen, a Fugitive task force arrested Arthur Fryer at 59 00:02:55.520 --> 00:03:00.400 his apartment in Brooklyn. His DNA entered in the dye's 60 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:04.360 criminal database after a drug conviction had been matched to 61 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:08.360 evidence from a rape in Pennsylvania years earlier. Over the 62 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:11.280 next year, Friar and his lawyer fought his extradition and 63 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:14.840 prosecution for the rape and another like it, which occurred 64 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:18.639 in nineteen ninety two. The victims, one from January of 65 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:21.960 that year, the other from November, were kept anonymous in 66 00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:25.639 the media. This is the story of Jane Doe January, 67 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:29.919 Emily Winslow was a young drama student at Carnegie Mellon 68 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:34.240 University's elite Conservatory in Pittsburgh when a man brutally attacked 69 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:37.800 and raped her in January nineteen ninety two. While the 70 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:42.319 police's search for her rapists proved futile, Emily reclaimed her life. 71 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:44.960 Over the course of the next two decades, she fell 72 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:49.800 in love, married, had two children, and began writing mystery 73 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:52.800 novels set in her new hometown of Cambridge, England. 74 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:58.240 Then in fall twenty thirteen, she received shocking news the 75 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:02.680 police had found her rapist. This is her intimate memoir, 76 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:05.159 the story of a woman's traumatic past, catching up with 77 00:04:05.240 --> 00:04:08.240 her in a country far from home, surrounded by people 78 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:11.919 who have no idea what she's endured. Caught between past 79 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:15.919 and present, and between two very different cultures, the inquisitive 80 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:21.360 and restless crime novelist searches for clarity. Beginning her own investigation, 81 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:25.399 She delves into Friar's family and past, reconnects with the 82 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:28.519 detectives of her case, and works with prosecutors in the 83 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:32.160 months leading to trial. As she recounts her long term 84 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:35.360 quest for closure, Winslow offers a heartbreakingly honest look at 85 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:39.439 a vicious crime and offers invaluable insights into the mind 86 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:43.040 and heart of a victim. The book they were featuring 87 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:47.079 today is Jane Dull January, My twenty Years Search for 88 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:52.279 Truth and Justice with my special guests, author Emily Winslow. 89 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:54.759 Welcome to the program, and thank you for agreeing this interview. 90 00:04:54.959 --> 00:04:57.759 Emily Winslow, Thanks. 91 00:04:57.639 --> 00:04:59.199 Very much, Dan, I'm happy to be here. 92 00:05:00.360 --> 00:05:04.480 Thank you very much, Emily. Now, as I mentioned in 93 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:11.360 the introduction, in nineteen ninety two, you were a twenty 94 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:14.319 two year old drama student in your third year at 95 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:18.759 Carnegie Mellon University, and you said in an elite conservatory 96 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:23.360 in Pittsburgh. Who were you at that time? Where did 97 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:26.720 you grow up? Were you a religious person, a cautious person? 98 00:05:27.240 --> 00:05:29.720 What was your life like before this rape? 99 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:34.439 In nineteen ninety two, I had grown up in New Jersey, 100 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:38.160 the youngest of four kids, a teenager of the eighties 101 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:43.720 generation X all the way. My older sister was at 102 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:45.959 the time that I was in college, a professional actress, 103 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:48.800 and she had been in the program before me, so 104 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:51.920 it seemed very natural to follow in her footsteps. And 105 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:54.959 I felt very lucky to get in and to be 106 00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:58.399 there and to be part of that very small group 107 00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:05.480 of people that became key. The class at CMU of 108 00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:08.439 actors was so small. There were just sixteen of us, 109 00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:12.399 and we were together, you know, from nine in the 110 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:15.959 morning to eleven at night most days. It was an 111 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:20.000 exhausting program. It was really difficult sometimes, but we had 112 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:24.480 each other, and having that coherent group turned out to 113 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:30.079 be exactly what I needed when I had to cope 114 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:34.399 with what suddenly happened in the winter of nineteen ninety two. 115 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:41.800 And further answer your questions, yes, I was a devout Christian. 116 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:46.439 I still am a practicing Christian, and at the time, 117 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:50.160 the way that that played out is that and I 118 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:54.360 think this is what you were indicating, is that I 119 00:06:54.600 --> 00:07:02.480 was waiting for marriage before being intimate with a boyfriend. 120 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:07.240 So I was rather innocent, which was something that my 121 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:13.399 acting teachers sometimes struggled with. And I was very idealistic, 122 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:15.519 and I think I was a little bit adventurous. I 123 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:19.600 had spent the previous summer in the Middle East by 124 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:26.279 myself because I wanted to see the pyramids. So that's 125 00:07:26.800 --> 00:07:29.920 that's who I was at twenty two at CARNEGIEA Millen 126 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:31.240 University in Pittsburgh. 127 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:38.120 Now you were at this elite conservatory. So again you 128 00:07:38.199 --> 00:07:41.319 said you felt a little bit more confident because you 129 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:46.399 had traveled so but how cautious were you? And also 130 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:49.040 tell us about this is it Shady Side? Tell us 131 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:52.519 about this little community and how comfortable and safe did 132 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:56.399 you feel before we talk about the event itself, the 133 00:07:56.519 --> 00:07:59.560 rape itself, the day in question. Tell us about how 134 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:02.839 comfortably felt, how naive were you, how cautious were you, 135 00:08:03.160 --> 00:08:05.240 and how safe did you feel in this little community. 136 00:08:06.759 --> 00:08:09.920 Carnegie Mellon University is in the city of Pittsburgh, but 137 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:13.360 it's not near downtown at all. It's nowhere near the 138 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:18.680 skyscrapers of the city of Pittsburgh. It's in a three 139 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:23.920 neighborhood area pretty much Oakland, Squirrel Hill, and Shady Side. 140 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:28.399 Shady Side is where I lived. It wasn't still is 141 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:33.600 a beautiful little area based around this little street called 142 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:37.000 Walnut Street, where they had a lot of fun shops 143 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:42.200 and restaurants. And because I was an introvert, I had 144 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:45.600 a studio apartment and lived alone. We were with each other, 145 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:49.360 we were with other people all day long, constantly working 146 00:08:49.399 --> 00:08:52.840 with other people, and living alone was my retreat. It 147 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:55.480 was I could I could go home and deep breaths 148 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:59.799 and sort of center myself again. Uh, Shady Side was 149 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:04.879 a place that seemed very safe because it was busy 150 00:09:06.759 --> 00:09:10.519 and it just seemed like a I guess, a typical 151 00:09:11.120 --> 00:09:17.639 nice neighborhood. It was well lit, it was charming, and yes, 152 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:19.240 I felt very safe there. 153 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:28.159 Now let's get to the event itself and the circumstances 154 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:32.200 in which you found yourself. As you describe in the book, 155 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:36.480 you take us right through that experience itself. You are 156 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:39.879 going to do laundry that night, so take it from there. 157 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:42.840 Why you leave the building and what you notice right 158 00:09:42.919 --> 00:09:48.639 away and your response during all of this event leading 159 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:50.000 up to the rape. 160 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:56.720 It was Christmas break. It was a Sunday, late afternoon. 161 00:09:57.120 --> 00:09:59.519 Classes were starting up again on Tuesday, so it was 162 00:09:59.559 --> 00:10:02.000 time to to get to work on those monologues that 163 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:04.440 I had not looked at at all that I needed 164 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:07.639 to have memorized by Tuesday. And I needed to wash 165 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:10.360 my clothes and it was a coin operated washer in 166 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:12.679 the building, so I needed to get change of a dollar, 167 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:16.559 and so that's why I left my apartment that evening. 168 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:20.879 And as I walked out, I noticed somebody hanging around 169 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:25.039 my building who I had never seen before. Like I said, 170 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:29.240 it's not that odd. We were, you know. I was 171 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:31.519 just a block from Walnut Street, where there are lots 172 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:36.759 of people from all over in Pittsburgh, So it wasn't 173 00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:39.320 that strange. But it was a little strange to see 174 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:42.039 somebody right next to my building. But I thought, well, 175 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:44.759 it's a public street, he has a right to be there, 176 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:50.039 and just went on my way. What made me remember him, 177 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:54.120 because obviously that wouldn't have stuck in my mind, was 178 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:58.120 that when I got my change and ran my errands 179 00:10:58.159 --> 00:11:02.039 and came back is I saw him again, Except he 180 00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:06.720 wasn't near my building. He was walking towards my building. 181 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:13.200 And I'm not sure if he deliberately cleverly planned it 182 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:17.200 the way it happened, in which case, gosh, that was clever, 183 00:11:17.879 --> 00:11:20.960 or if it just happened to be this way timing wise. 184 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:25.639 But he had been behind me, If he had been 185 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:30.879 following me, I would have been suspicious immediately. That's creepy 186 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:33.559 being followed. And I would have had a lot of alternatives, 187 00:11:34.039 --> 00:11:37.000 a lot of stores I could have gone into, a 188 00:11:37.080 --> 00:11:39.240 lot of restaurants, a lot of people I could have 189 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:43.919 turned to. But instead, what was happening was He also 190 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:48.240 happened to be walking towards the same door I was, 191 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:53.919 but from a completely different direction, and so that was 192 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:56.559 enough for me to think, Oh, he doesn't mean me. 193 00:11:57.919 --> 00:11:59.919 He just happens to be. He must have been waiting 194 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:02.320 for a friend in front of our building, and now 195 00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:03.960 he's going to go ring the doorbell and see if 196 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:07.200 his friend is in. So I just kept walking towards 197 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:10.600 the door. But I did think to myself, you know what, 198 00:12:11.320 --> 00:12:13.440 I am not going to hold the door for him, 199 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:15.960 you know, as you would for a neighbor. It's always 200 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:18.120 a kindness to, you know, hold the door. Said, they 201 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:19.879 don't have to get out their keys. But I thought, 202 00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:23.559 you know what, I don't know him, I will I'm 203 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:25.320 just going to let the door close behind me. And 204 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:27.279 I was close enough to the building, and he was 205 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:29.840 far enough away from the building that actually that would 206 00:12:29.879 --> 00:12:34.759 have worked, except he started jogging to catch up with 207 00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:38.039 me and catch the door, which is exactly what happened. 208 00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:42.480 He caught the door, and I remember his hand catching 209 00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:46.879 the door right at the level of my ear, and 210 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:50.679 I was I wished he hadn't caught the door, But 211 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:52.759 I thought to myself, well, there are plenty of times 212 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:54.960 I didn't want to bother, you know, digging my keys 213 00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:56.840 out and stuff, and so I might have jogged to 214 00:12:56.919 --> 00:13:01.360 catch the door behind a neighbor. So I just kind 215 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:06.159 of talked myself out of it. I wasn't anxious enough 216 00:13:06.679 --> 00:13:08.559 to turn around and leave the building, which I could 217 00:13:08.600 --> 00:13:13.200 have done, but I was a little bit suspicious enough 218 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:16.159 that instead of going up the stairs and he would 219 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:18.720 have had to follow me and gone right to my apartment, 220 00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:24.279 I decided to delay, and I fiddled with my mailbox 221 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:28.039 a bit, just to just to you know, to kill time, 222 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:31.840 and he walked up the stairs, and I remember feeling relief. 223 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:35.120 I felt so relieved. I thought, Oh, see, what were 224 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:37.600 you worried about. He's gonna go upstairs and see his 225 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:39.919 friend or maybe he lives in one of the apartments upstairs. 226 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:42.440 And I've somehow I've never seen him before. But what 227 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:44.960 I didn't realize at the time, and in fact I 228 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:47.679 didn't realize it until over twenty years later, when I 229 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:50.399 was looking at the notes that the police had made 230 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:53.279 of how I described that night to them, is that 231 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:58.600 by fiddling with my mailbox, I showed him my apartment number, 232 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:01.879 and so what he was able to do was he 233 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:05.600 just went upstairs. And my apartment door happened to be 234 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:09.279 next to this stairwell going up to the third floor, 235 00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:13.080 and it's a closed stairwell without a door, and he 236 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:17.960 hid in that stairwell. And when I unlocked my door, 237 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:22.039 he jumped and pushed me inside the apartment, shut the door, 238 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:25.240 put his hand over my mouth, pressed me against the wall, 239 00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:27.519 and said, do you want to die? 240 00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:35.600 He had spoken to you just previous to that, in 241 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:39.039 an apartment, and you ad you include that in your book. 242 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:40.919 It's very interesting, a little. 243 00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:43.279 Bit of banter downstairs where he'd asked me if I 244 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:47.840 was married, And you know, I said, what did I think? 245 00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:51.879 I said, that's private because I wasn't. I wasn't quick 246 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:52.679 enough to lie. 247 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:59.799 Yeah. Now, once he's in your house and he says 248 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:02.799 do you want to die? Of course he has his 249 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:06.840 hand over your mouth. What does he do? What does 250 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:12.159 what is his next step? And how what's your decision 251 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:16.559 to comply? Resist? Oh? What is your initial. 252 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:23.519 My top priority was not to die, and the way 253 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:30.000 to do that was to cooperate. I tried to cooperate. 254 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:35.960 I tried to reason with him. I tried to I asked, 255 00:15:36.679 --> 00:15:40.399 you know, can we do this not that that sort 256 00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:47.840 of thing. He Later the detectives used the phrase gentleman rapist, 257 00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:50.679 which is a horrible, horrible phrase, but you can google it. 258 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:55.320 It is a it is a thing. It basically describes 259 00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:59.639 a rapist who is not sadistic. They don't want to 260 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:03.840 hurt their victim, but they are willing to hurt their 261 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:08.559 victim as much as is required to get them to 262 00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:13.399 comply with exactly what they want. And that does describe 263 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:17.840 him very well. And I did try to comply to 264 00:16:17.960 --> 00:16:22.720 the best of my ability. I wasn't always able to 265 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:24.879 and then he had to use some more force. He 266 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:30.519 had to smother me twice because I was screaming. And 267 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:36.200 I actually I think I heard I don't actually know 268 00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:38.840 if this is true, but I heard in the gossip 269 00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:44.240 that the upstairs neighbor had heard me screaming, but because 270 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:49.200 I had stopped, they didn't do anything. And I don't 271 00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:50.679 hold that against them at all. I mean, we've all 272 00:16:50.799 --> 00:16:53.960 heard something that sounds distressing for a moment and then 273 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:55.960 it stops. Well it stopped. 274 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:01.879 And how he stopped you from screaming was to smother you, 275 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:04.480 and that was the smart trying to stifle your breath 276 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:11.440 right right now. You describe in a book that it 277 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:17.759 seems like this inscruciating, scrutiatingly long period of time that 278 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:21.440 he abuses you. Is there any more threats? And what 279 00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:24.640 if anything else does he say to you? And what 280 00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:29.400 is his behavior during this entire ordeal? 281 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:34.079 You know, it's when I was describing it to the police, 282 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:36.440 I kept saying how big he was, And when I 283 00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:38.960 was describing it to my friends, I kept saying how 284 00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:43.359 long it was? You know, once I got much more 285 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:46.079 distant from it, it was it was no more than 286 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:50.920 half an hour, I don't think. And seeing him in court, 287 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:55.440 you know, twenty some odd years later, Yeah he's big, 288 00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:58.880 he's man sized, but he's not as big. I think 289 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:05.000 it all felt bigger and a longer amount of time 290 00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:09.680 than it actually was, just because uh, it was so awful, 291 00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:13.559 I must say. Actually he was fairly efficient about it. 292 00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:16.640 He knew exactly what he wanted and he went about 293 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:23.960 getting it, and then amazingly, wonderfully, he just left. And 294 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:29.200 that was an incredible moment because I thought for sure 295 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:34.279 I was going to die, and when it seemed like 296 00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:36.440 he wasn't going to kill me, I thought for sure 297 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:40.359 he was going to try to you know, make it 298 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:43.000 so that I could not call the police, make it 299 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:48.480 so that I could not easily, you know, get out 300 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:51.920 of the apartment in some way. But instead he just 301 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:58.720 once he was done, he told me to rest vaguely 302 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:04.079 gestured to my feet, and then left and closed the 303 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:07.440 door behind him. And I was able to just leap up, 304 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:11.359 lock the door. That was the most important thing, and 305 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:13.759 then call nine to one one. 306 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:22.480 Now you describe this ordeal again, it's an ongoing ordeal 307 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:24.559 because now you've been rape but there is a sense 308 00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:26.920 of relief. You do lock, you're able to lock this 309 00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:32.240 this door, your door, and so then call the authorities. 310 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:36.240 And now is the again ordeal. But at least and 311 00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:39.680 again you are feeling relief as soon as you're able 312 00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:43.119 to reach people, because there are people that are empathetic 313 00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:47.839 and compassionate. As soon as you approach them and they 314 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:50.799 come into their you come into their care. So tell 315 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:55.119 us about the again, the ordeal of the DNA, the 316 00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:59.279 rape kit itself part me right, Well, the so. 317 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:03.960 First the police came to the apartment, several of them. 318 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:07.519 I think it was, you know, two or three men 319 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:10.799 and one women. That's vaguely how I remember it. In 320 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:13.839 my tiny little studio apartment, and I had been so 321 00:20:14.039 --> 00:20:18.960 careful to not change my clothes, not wash, not affect 322 00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:22.519 anything that could be evidence, because that was that, you know, 323 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:25.119 that was written about in women's magazines. I'd been reading 324 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:28.960 that for years in right, you know, all the women's 325 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:35.160 magazines that teenagers read. So I answered the the door 326 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:41.359 kind of, you know, still in still holding my dress together, 327 00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:48.519 and of course they needed my clothes for evidence. Once 328 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:55.079 I changed, they took me to the hospital, and the 329 00:20:55.200 --> 00:21:01.880 hospital staff were absolutely wonderful. It was McGee Women's Hospital 330 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:06.960 in Pittsburgh. Probably the emergency room, I would imagine, although 331 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.559 I'm not absolutely certain, and I remember there were lots 332 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:15.160 and lots of nurses, and my doctor was a woman, 333 00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:18.000 and the nurses were. 334 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:18.359 All so. 335 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:26.519 They were just very deeply, deeply concerned about what had 336 00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:30.559 happened to me, and deeply emotional about it, even as 337 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:34.440 they went about their very practical business trying to help me. 338 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:40.599 And the doctor was just wonderful. While she was examining 339 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:44.720 me and you know, asking me to tell her, you know, 340 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:51.279 what had happened, she kept reassuring me that I had 341 00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:55.400 done the right thing. And I think what she was 342 00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:57.880 meaning to communicate was that there was nothing in my 343 00:21:58.119 --> 00:22:02.839 compliance that made this not a rape. There was nothing 344 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:06.960 in my compliance that made me complicit in this experience. 345 00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:10.480 And I really appreciated that. 346 00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:19.160 Now as well, you say that the detectives that are 347 00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:24.039 that are assigned to this case, and you also we 348 00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:26.079 didn't talk about how good a look you got at 349 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:32.119 this person the several times of this encounter itself, but 350 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:35.839 how worthwhile was the ID that you gave to the police. 351 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:43.640 You know, I was able to gribe him generally. I mean, Dan, 352 00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:46.640 you know, I'm I'm a writer. Before I wrote this memoir, 353 00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:51.079 I've written three crime novels, and if you read my novels, 354 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:58.200 I very rarely describe characters physically, not unless there's something 355 00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:03.200 about their physical description that impact Judy was boring. 356 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:06.720 Hello, Then Judy discovered jumpacasino dot com. 357 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:08.279 It's my little escape. 358 00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:11.160 Now Judy's the life of the party. Oh baby mama 359 00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:13.960 is bringing home the bacon. WHOA Take it easy, Judy. 360 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:17.240 Jump The Jump of life is for everybody. 361 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:19.960 So go to chumpacasino dot com and play over one 362 00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:21.480 hundred casino style games. 363 00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:23.680 Join today and play for free for your. 364 00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:28.240 Chance to redeem some serious prices jump jump Acasino dot com. 365 00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:30.799 Noea's necessary point. We're promitted by my eighteen plus terms 366 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:31.480 and conditions. 367 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:34.880 To play se what severe details another character or impact 368 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:37.119 the decision they make or something. But I very rarely 369 00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:40.720 just you know, just apropos of nothing. Described the way 370 00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:44.720 somebody looks. That's not generally what my mind keys on. 371 00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:50.359 So I was able to describe him as best I could. 372 00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:56.759 But you know, you hear terrible stories about women who 373 00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:01.359 have you know, have been through terrible experience, been through 374 00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:06.400 a stranger rape, identify their attacker as an eyewitness in court, 375 00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:10.039 swear that it's true and they mean it, and then 376 00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:14.400 it turns out years later DNA shows that it was 377 00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:20.599 somebody else. I would never ever, ever want, you know, 378 00:24:20.799 --> 00:24:26.880 my eyewitness testimony of somebody I don't actually know, to 379 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:30.920 be what puts somebody away. So I am. That's one 380 00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:35.000 of the wonderful blessings of DNA evidence is that now 381 00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:38.359 I really truly know, Yes I did once once they 382 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:40.440 caught him and I looked at photos of him. I 383 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:45.319 absolutely recognized him. But I would never want that recognition 384 00:24:46.119 --> 00:24:49.559 to be the soul the soul evidence. 385 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:58.599 Now you go ahead, what the detectives were mostly. 386 00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:02.000 Interested in I should clarify, there were police that came 387 00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:05.920 to my apartment, right, those were uniform police, and then 388 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:10.039 there were the medical staff at the hospital. And then 389 00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:16.440 it's at the hospital that the detectives came, and they 390 00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:21.000 were mostly interested in wasn't so much the physical description 391 00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:26.519 of the man. What they were interested in was my 392 00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:33.759 list of exactly what he did. And I'll never forget this. 393 00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:38.000 The detective detective Valenti, who I ended up reconnecting with 394 00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:42.880 decades later after he was arrested. After the man was arrested, 395 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:48.559 not detective Valenta. He sat down with me and he 396 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:52.519 apologized for having to ask me these questions, but he 397 00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:57.559 said that he needed to know everything that happened because 398 00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:02.359 every different kind of time which would become a different 399 00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:06.759 charge when they caught him. And that was just the 400 00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:08.839 right thing to say to me. It was just the 401 00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:14.119