WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:07.000 You are listening to the IFAH podcast Network. For more 2 00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:12.720 amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifagpodcastnetwork dot com. 3 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:16.440 Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three eighty four. 4 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:20.199 There's nothing more nasty than giving kids hope and then 5 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:24.039 snatching it away as fast as you can. Brad Silberly 6 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:27.359 broadcasting from a dark, windowless. 7 00:00:26.839 --> 00:00:29.239 Room in Hollywood when we really should be working on 8 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:33.679 that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you 9 00:00:33.799 --> 00:00:36.399 the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how 10 00:00:36.439 --> 00:00:38.320 to make your screenplay bulletproof. 11 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:43.840 And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another 12 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:46.840 episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host, 13 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:52.439 Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage. 14 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:52.840 Now. 15 00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:57.840 Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses 16 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:00.439 on the kind of project you are are in the 17 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:03.200 goals of the project you are, so we actually break 18 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:06.640 it down by three categories, micro budget, indie film, market, 19 00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:09.480 and studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from 20 00:01:09.519 --> 00:01:11.599 a reader that you used to reading temp pole movies 21 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:14.000 when your movie is gonna be done for one hundred 22 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:16.439 thousand dollars, and we wanted to focus on that. At 23 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:23.480 Bulletproof Script Coverage, our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, WME, NBC, HBO, Disney, 24 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:27.280 Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more. 25 00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:30.799 So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered 26 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:37.280 by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot com. Well, guys, 27 00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:40.599 I promised you a special episode and I hope I 28 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:43.840 deliver it with this one we have on the show today, 29 00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:49.760 writer director Brad Silberlin. Now, I've had a long love 30 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:52.359 affair with Brad from a distance for a long time. 31 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:58.719 I love his films. He made films like City of Angels, Casper, Lemony, Snickets, 32 00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:02.920 and also has worked on some amazing television shows like Jane, 33 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:10.199 The Virgin Dynasty, Charmed, La Law, NYPD, Blues, Doodiy Hauser, 34 00:02:10.319 --> 00:02:13.960 and many, many more. And I sat down with Brad 35 00:02:14.000 --> 00:02:17.360 and talked to him about his journey, what it's like 36 00:02:17.479 --> 00:02:20.960 having a mentor like Steven Spielberg in your life, and 37 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:23.759 how he's been able to overcome a lot of the 38 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:27.120 obstacles that this business throws in front of all of us. So, 39 00:02:27.159 --> 00:02:31.960 without any further ado, please enjoy my inspiring conversation with 40 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:33.599 Brad Silverlin. 41 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:34.719 I like to. 42 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:37.240 Welcome to the show, Brad Siberlin. How you doing that, Brad? 43 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:39.439 I'm excellent man. How are you? 44 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:40.360 I'm doing great? 45 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:40.560 Man? 46 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:43.120 Thank you so much for coming on the show. Man. 47 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:46.039 I am humbled and honored. As I was telling you before. 48 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:48.560 You and I met in two thousand and five at 49 00:02:48.599 --> 00:02:51.319 my first Sun Dance and you were speaking, had a 50 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:54.479 fantastic panel, and I got a picture with you. I'll 51 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:55.680 see if I could put it in the show notes. 52 00:02:55.719 --> 00:02:58.639 I have it in my archive somewhere. And you were 53 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:01.000 always you. You're very kind to a young filmmaker, just 54 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:03.439 asking probably stupid questions, Uh. 55 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:06.280 How do we get an agent? 56 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:08.759 Like? You know? Like dumb probably stuff at the time, 57 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:11.680 but you were very kind. I never forgot you, and 58 00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:15.800 I followed your career as you moved forward, and I 59 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:17.039 just the other day I was like, you know what, 60 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:18.400 gotta get Bright on the show to see if he's 61 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:19.680 to be interested in coming on the show. 62 00:03:19.719 --> 00:03:23.599 And here you are, sir, here I am direct from 63 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:25.120 the San Fernando Valley to you. 64 00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:29.840 So how did you so? How did you get started 65 00:03:29.919 --> 00:03:34.560 in this ridiculous business that we love so much. 66 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:38.360 I you know, I'm not alone. I was a kid 67 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:40.560 with a camera. I was a kid with a Super 68 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:45.960 eight camera here in the valley. And it's interesting because 69 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:51.039 I so my dad, who passed away eight years ago. 70 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:55.639 He was a documentary producer. He I was born in 71 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:58.520 d C. Because he was working for the USIA, which 72 00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:01.319 is actually our government's propaganda into arm We do Headland 73 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:08.280 and No. He was producing documentaries during the Kennedy administration, 74 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:13.360 and only in the sixties would logic have dictated that 75 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:18.959 he would move from that job into network television. Don't 76 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:21.439 ask how they made that leap. It was a smaller 77 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:24.720 business then. So we moved out to la in sixty 78 00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:29.240 seven and he started working at that point at ABC 79 00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:34.279 as a programming executive. So oddly enough, they thought his 80 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:38.560 skills would translate. So he worked as a network executive 81 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:41.199 the whole time I was growing up. But he always 82 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:46.600 loved production, and so I took advantage of that by 83 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:50.480 I would go beg to be dropped off at a 84 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:56.040 set at any point I could. From probably about age nine, 85 00:04:57.439 --> 00:05:00.040 when I was old enough to ride a bike, I 86 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:02.600 would steal over to Universal I'd met a really nice 87 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:05.160 secretary who would like slip me call sheets at a 88 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:08.759 drive on which was a bicycle, and I would spend 89 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:13.000 every Friday afternoon there. But I just was fascinated by 90 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:19.079 the process. And again my dad was always coming at 91 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:24.879 everything from a story perspective. But I'm that guy who 92 00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:27.480 you know, I still hadn't really picked up a camera. 93 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:30.759 I was just absorbing. And then I was there that 94 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:34.480 first day in nineteen seventy five, first day for showing 95 00:05:34.519 --> 00:05:37.600 of Jaws. I made my dad drop me off. There 96 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:39.879 was a we had a theater called the Plit. It 97 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:42.959 was in Century City where ABC was, where he was working, 98 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:46.800 and I begged him to just drop me off. It 99 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:50.519 was like an eleven am showing and I'm sitting there alone. 100 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:53.560 The theater was not full, even though obviously days to 101 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:56.759 come it was going to be incredibly full, huge airplane 102 00:05:56.920 --> 00:06:00.160 kind of recliner seats. Some alone in my row, and 103 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:04.199 I get to the attack on little Alex Kintner, the 104 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:07.759 kid on the raft, and I'm just having a heart attack, 105 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:09.319 and I don't know if I can make it through 106 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:12.120 the movie, looking around to see if there's anybody there, 107 00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:15.040 but I hung in thank God. And by the time 108 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:19.199 it was done, I had that feeling, which was who 109 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:21.959 got to do that? Who did that? Who took me 110 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:27.199 through that ride? That is something I will never get 111 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:28.920 out of my system. And I went home that day 112 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:34.560 and snuck into my dad's photography Clauset stole his He 113 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:39.319 had a it was it was it a Minolta super 114 00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:43.639 a camera and I started shooting. So that day it 115 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:47.920 was just like the switch was thrown. And Steven's really 116 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.079 funny about this because I'm not alone. I mean, I 117 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:53.360 can tell you the number of other filmmakers who were 118 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:58.600 switched on in that moment by that movie. And so 119 00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:00.800 I started shooting. Yes, So I was all. I did 120 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:04.360 two things in junior high school. In high school, I 121 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:07.160 shot movies and I played soccer. And that was what 122 00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:10.199 I did. And this was duper eat again, where was 123 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:13.000 I mean? I look at everybody now with their phones 124 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.160 in which possible, and back then you're shooting three and 125 00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:20.839 a half minute cartridges. Every second counted. You had to really, 126 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:23.639 so you're getting in the camera, you're really thinking through 127 00:07:23.680 --> 00:07:28.600 your material, you're splicing your little you know, super eight splices. 128 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:31.560 But I so that's what I did, and I was 129 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:34.839 very obsessed, and I did that right up through. I 130 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:37.000 got a lot of good advice to not do film 131 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:43.800 as an undergrad, but to try to actually learn anything else, 132 00:07:43.879 --> 00:07:47.920 have sort of more an open humanist mind, start writing. 133 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:50.839 And so then I went to grad school and I 134 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:54.399 went to CLA and made you know, sc is more 135 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:58.120 famous for its, you know, thesis final films, whatever they're called, 136 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:01.959 but I made I made my thesis film. And I 137 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:06.319 was fortunate that we fought to have our first industry 138 00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:10.079 screening because UCLA was super egalitarian and they didn't normally 139 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:13.680 like things like that, but we did. And so coming 140 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:18.120 out of that screening, I ended up going under contract. 141 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:22.160 I went under contract Universal. There had been a woman 142 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:25.120 there who's still a great friend, Nancy Nayer. She ran 143 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:29.079 casting at Universal. She was there just aatrol for actors. 144 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:32.279 She saw my film and she said, would you mind 145 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:34.679 if I took your film back to the studio? And 146 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:39.559 I was like, yeah, no, please, please don't plead, please 147 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.320 don't know. Can I walk you to your car? I 148 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:46.200 mean it was And so I got a really funny 149 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:50.240 set of phone calls. One was from from the TV 150 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:52.080 group and one was from the Future Group. And again 151 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:54.480 at that point in time, they did not communicate. They 152 00:08:54.519 --> 00:09:00.559 still don't often, and they basically both one to try 153 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:04.080 to put together some sort of deal. They hadn't really 154 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:08.919 done term deals for directors since like the early seventies, 155 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:13.919 Stephen Stielbert, Richard Donner, a number of these guys actually 156 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:17.440 basically were on term deals, and so they dusted off 157 00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:20.600 an old term deal and they they just did like, 158 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.200 he's young, he's cheap, Hopefully you know some talent, let's 159 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:27.759 do this. And they covered everything from writing, directing, producing, 160 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:31.559 you know, making omelets. They they had me, but it 161 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:33.679 was incredible. So I was prepared to start, you know, 162 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:38.080 parking cars out of grad school, but I went under contract. 163 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:41.879 So that meant immediately trying to figure out who's producing 164 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:46.600 on the lot, is there television, who's making movies? And 165 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:49.360 that became home for the first two and a half 166 00:09:49.399 --> 00:09:55.840 three years that I got started. And then ironically Steven 167 00:09:55.879 --> 00:09:59.360 Botchko and his then sort of in house director, a 168 00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:01.279 really great guy named Greg Hobblett. 169 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:04.879 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 170 00:10:08.519 --> 00:10:10.000 and now back to the show. 171 00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:15.320 Saw my graduate film and they said come over here. 172 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:19.200 And Universal was very wise because they're like, good, let 173 00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:22.960 them go fuck up on their on their time. So 174 00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:28.519 but I so my first three years of work were 175 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:35.039 directing television, primarily over at Botchko's company. Then yeah, so. 176 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:38.759 I have to ask you though, because looking through your filmography, 177 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:41.559 you have the distinct honor of being one of the 178 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:45.960 directors who directed an episode of the infamous Cop Rock. 179 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:50.440 I'm one of only eleven and the original order was 180 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:55.360 for twelve and they killed it. Well. I remember Stephen 181 00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:58.960 coming down that set one day and he was just like, well, 182 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:03.960 this didn't work. It was my second hour of television. 183 00:11:04.440 --> 00:11:05.320 It was crazy. 184 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:07.639 I'd mean so for people that so people listening, if 185 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:10.080 you don't know what Cop Rock is, google it on 186 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:13.200 YouTube and watch a scene of Cop Rock. It was 187 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:18.600 this musical cop show, which is it is such an 188 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:22.679 oddity in television history, you know, from such a big 189 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:25.039 I mean, Stephen. 190 00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:27.480 Boschko was like he was he wants the dude. He 191 00:11:27.679 --> 00:11:27.960 was it. 192 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:30.799 So, you know, it'd be the equivalent of I don't 193 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:33.919 know whoever nowadays you know, big showrunner shot in the 194 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:39.919 rhymes doing a cop cop musical and it was I 195 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:41.960 saw so, I mean, I'd never seen a full episode 196 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:43.799 because I wasn't. I didn't see it when it got released, 197 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:46.279 and I don't know whatever's on YouTube, but I just 198 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:50.080 remember these cops just like singing about drugs and it 199 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:52.399 was just the weirdest thing. And when I saw it, 200 00:11:52.519 --> 00:11:54.039 I had to ask you, what was it like being 201 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:54.679 inside of that? 202 00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:58.440 Here's the truth of it that so Steven had seen 203 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:01.360 there was a great British series called The Singing Detectives, 204 00:12:02.200 --> 00:12:06.000 and I think he was feeling his muscle and feeling 205 00:12:06.039 --> 00:12:09.519 his strength and thinking, I can do anything. Let's do that. 206 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:13.919 The problem is Stephen didn't really and God bless him 207 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:15.440 who passed away a few years ago. He was an 208 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:19.159 amazing guy. He didn't really care about music, didn't really 209 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:22.240 like very much. So this was the problem. And you know, 210 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:25.279 the whole I did musicals is you only you only 211 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:27.879 burst out into song when you have to when when 212 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:30.519 when basically the spirit moves and the story needs it. 213 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:34.679 But he didn't approach it that way. The cop rock 214 00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:40.720 outlines were like normal Hill Street. It was like procedural, procedural, Uh, 215 00:12:40.759 --> 00:12:44.679 maybe a song in here. And so there's the problem. 216 00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:47.759 They were ledged in which meant that in production they 217 00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:50.720 came very late. So it wasn't like you had this 218 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:54.720 great chance. I mean, Steven Spielberg talks about this beautiful 219 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:58.840 process on one side, story about working for six months 220 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:02.919 even as they're doing the choreer and just say cop rock. 221 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:07.799 You would be shown the number on the day of 222 00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:12.039 shooting because the music had only just got into the 223 00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:16.080 choreographer who's kind of winging it, and so all the 224 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:18.919 actors are like the fuck and and but it was 225 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:22.399 recorded live. In terms of the singing, which also is 226 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:25.919 usually you do you know that a pre record. It 227 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:30.279 was crazy and and yet there there would be there 228 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:32.320 were numbers that kind of worked, and then there were 229 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:34.279 a lot of them were called groaners that were just 230 00:13:34.360 --> 00:13:38.519 like oh no, and you just felt for these actors 231 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:42.799 who had to commit and you know, so it was 232 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:47.720 it was an exercise in insanity. And like I said, 233 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:51.600 it was not. If somebody who just loved the musical 234 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:55.200 form could tried it, maybe it would work. But anyway, yeah, 235 00:13:55.559 --> 00:13:57.519 it was good. But that was my second hour Dollarson. 236 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:00.919 So I was like, so this is is this is 237 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:01.720 this what I'm doing? 238 00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:05.080 Is this is this how it right? Okay, you go 239 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:07.600 over there, you dance to the locker, you get your gun, 240 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:08.240 let's do this. 241 00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:10.480 And you've never directed a musical at this point, and 242 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:13.720 you're like, oh god, of course, of course, because how 243 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:16.200 many people have really directed musicals? So that list is 244 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:20.320 fairly shocked, all right, And so you're there as a 245 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:24.840 young How old are you at this point? Twenty two three? 246 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:27.840 I was probably twenty five twenty yeah, I was probably 247 00:14:27.879 --> 00:14:30.279 twenty five, twenty five years old. 248 00:14:30.440 --> 00:14:34.879 Second time, my god, all right, so let me let 249 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:36.679 me ask you the first day, because I always love 250 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:39.759 asking this question the first day on the first job 251 00:14:39.799 --> 00:14:41.799 that you got after you signed that deal with Universal, 252 00:14:42.559 --> 00:14:45.720 when you walk on set, I gotta believe you're losing 253 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:50.320 your mind. You're you, the imposter syndrome is running rampid. 254 00:14:51.639 --> 00:14:54.039 You're like, any moment now security is going to scort 255 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:58.000 me off the lot. How did you like walk on 256 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:00.000 and like do your job with all? 257 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:00.600 I mean? 258 00:15:00.679 --> 00:15:01.320 I'm assuming? 259 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:04.799 So am I correct? Well, you're right, you're assuming, and 260 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:08.639 your assumption would be correct. But for three they all 261 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:10.799 tell you two different stories. But for three things. One 262 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:14.879 is I you know, I even remember when I got 263 00:15:14.919 --> 00:15:17.000 my contract. Everyone was like, oh my god, are you 264 00:15:17.080 --> 00:15:22.240 losing your mind? And I wasn't. And it wasn't Hubris, 265 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:25.840 but I felt like I'd been doing what I was 266 00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:30.240 doing for a long long time, and I trusted myself. 267 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:32.919 I felt like, oh, okay, I've got more than just 268 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:34.759 the kid next door to me, my crew. Now this 269 00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:38.360 is good. So my crew got bigger. But the single 270 00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:41.759 biggest reason my Canadian friends are going to kill me, 271 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:44.639 but the single biggest reason I didn't fully of that 272 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:47.320 was my first episode for Universal. I ended up being 273 00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:50.919 in Toronto. They were doing a second batch of Alfred 274 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:57.240 Hitchcock Present, and so I finagled my way into one 275 00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:00.519 of those, and I swear I don't know what it was, 276 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:05.320 but I was not intimidated by the Kine crew and 277 00:16:05.399 --> 00:16:07.000 I was working. It was awesome. I was working with 278 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:13.240 Mike Connor's Mannix. He was lead, and he was couldn't 279 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:17.039 have been more dear and awesome, and so I just thought, 280 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:21.600 of course, why not me? So it that part didn't 281 00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:27.799 really overwhelm me. I felt, fine, I'll tell you the 282 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:30.960 moment that you're thinking of. It was less imposture than 283 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:34.799 just like, how did this happen? So that's my first 284 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:39.600 directing job in television. My first feature directing job is 285 00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:44.360 Casper and We're shooting in nineteen ninety four, and as 286 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:48.039 I've told you, I picked up a camera because of 287 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:53.679 Stephen Steven ended up becoming my mentor and giving me 288 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:56.799 my first feature job. And the first morning of our 289 00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:59.240 shoot we were shooting in the big kitchen. There was 290 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:01.679 a big, long kit sequence. I was gonna end up 291 00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:05.720 having more CG than all of Jurassic part was insane. 292 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:09.359 He's awesome. He shows up a call to be there 293 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:13.680 for my first shot and would go and rehearse and 294 00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:18.359 it's awesome. And when the time came to call action, 295 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:21.680 I just sat there and he's next to me and 296 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:24.920 I'm looking at him. I'm looking at this whole situation 297 00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:29.039 and it's like everything just dropped on my head. I 298 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:34.039 was dumbfounded by the universe that this was actually the case. 299 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:35.720 And he just looked at me and smiled and he 300 00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:39.599 meant to say it, and I was like action and 301 00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:43.319 it was. It was still one of the most incredible moments, 302 00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:46.319 and it was just that thing of confluence, like how 303 00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:50.720 did this happen? I'm grateful it happened, but yeah, so 304 00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:54.240 in a weird way, that was my bigger moment, but 305 00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:58.440 I did. Yeah, I had maybe unfounded, but I did 306 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:02.359 always have a belief that if you have the story 307 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:05.480 and you know what every setup is and you're there, 308 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:09.279 the crew is going to follow you. Doesn't mean that 309 00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:11.559 there's not going to be testing and that they're not 310 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:13.759 going to sit there with their arms folded. At times, 311 00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:16.480 you get all of that. I had the DP on 312 00:18:16.519 --> 00:18:22.480 that very first Alfred Hitchcock episode by I don't know, 313 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:24.880 it was like night number three, like wanting to quit 314 00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:29.160 because I'm very hands on. I don't just say yeah, 315 00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:31.640 let's go do a nice two shot and I'm going 316 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:34.960 to go get some coffee. I'm still a kid with 317 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:40.680 a camera. I set every shot, I I rehearse with 318 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:42.839 a lens in my hand. I'm just who I am. 319 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.200 And this guy wasn't used to that, and it was 320 00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:48.920 really funny. I've had that a few times, even in 321 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.559 some of my movies Where to Pay, So I now 322 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:54.920 my litmus test for whom I'm going to collaborate with 323 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:57.640 as a DP. In particular, it has to feel like 324 00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:01.480 a friend from film school. It's not agistic. They can 325 00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:04.359 be ninety, but it has to be that spirit We're 326 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:06.559 in this thing together. Ooh look what I'm seeing? What 327 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:09.079 are you saying ooh, look at this. But those who 328 00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:10.920 work in such a way that it's like, I'm the 329 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:14.440 director of photography. You go sit in your chair, little man. 330 00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:18.799 I'm just not there. So that was that was an 331 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:23.640 interesting early moment for me with my confidence, but how 332 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:26.400 to keep a collaborator close without losing them? 333 00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:30.359 Now I heard I remember years ago when Casper came out, 334 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:32.359 Because when Casper came out, it was a fairly big 335 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:37.839 It was a fairly big deal because CG was just starting. 336 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:45.240 We were the first character with dialogue CG animation. So 337 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:50.000 Steven had done Jurassic in ninety three and as he yeah, 338 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:52.119 that first morning when he came to my set in 339 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:54.519 the kitchen, he's like, dude, you're about to blow through 340 00:19:54.599 --> 00:19:55.759 more shocks than we did. 341 00:19:57.279 --> 00:19:59.759 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor 342 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:04.880 and now back to the show. 343 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:09.359 In the whole movie. And he's But then he came, 344 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:11.519 he came like week three and he's like, oh, man, 345 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:13.240 if you had known what you were getting into, you 346 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:15.440 never would have said yes to this. And I laughed. 347 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:21.799 He said, you're now directing these characters. There's dialogue, there's monologues, 348 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:25.119 there's soliloquies. I just had to have the dudes turn 349 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:30.240 and roar, and it was a deal. It was a deal, 350 00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:33.039 and it was were There was like an early glimpse 351 00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:36.599 of motion capture that was experimented with, but it was 352 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:40.240 not ready from prime time, so unfortunately I didn't have 353 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:45.279 that to go to. It was all here and then 354 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:47.720 I basically had to go with a with an old 355 00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:52.599 school two D line animator. I had to go and 356 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:57.920 basically after making the movie, direct every performance in pencil 357 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:03.039 sketch right, then take those to ilm and go through 358 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:04.960 the So it was very handmade. 359 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:10.279 Now, watching some behind the scenes or an interview that 360 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:12.920 you did, was it true at one point that you 361 00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:15.920 turned it down and said I can't do this, and 362 00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:18.640 that Stephen had to literally call you off the ledge. 363 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:25.680 Yeah, So we met again. It's only he could have 364 00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:27.839 done this. We met because he happened to see some 365 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:30.839 television that I had directed. Not a watch ghost Show, 366 00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:33.440 but Gary David Goldberg who's passed away, and he was 367 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:36.920 amazing and did family ties. But then he Gary did 368 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:41.400 a show called Brooklyn Bridge that was really memorance remembrances 369 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.200 from his growing up in Brooklyn in the fifties and 370 00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:47.519 I happened to direct an episode. I can say this 371 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:50.440 because I'm a tribe member. But Gary said, yeah, you 372 00:21:50.519 --> 00:21:55.480 directed the least jewy episode that we did, because it 373 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:57.680 was an episode about this kid and his family going 374 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:00.519 to Abittsfield to try after this thing, and it was 375 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:05.480 so non jewey that it was more of an Americana episode, 376 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:08.720 and they ran it and it's crazy. I was just 377 00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:11.839 thinking about this this morning. It was in Thanksgiving of 378 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:17.039 ninety one, so thirty years ago. Last Move, you know, 379 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:22.119 a month ago. They ran this episode because they needed 380 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:26.880 to fill the extra half hour after the first running 381 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:32.839 CBS did of et Sote Steven's movie ran. They needed 382 00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:34.519 to fill a half hour. They thought, oh, this is 383 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:38.920 a very heartwarming, very Americana apps. So Gary called me 384 00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:40.880 the next week and said, you're not gonna believe the 385 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:43.559 phone call I got and I said yeah, and he said, 386 00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:48.240 my friend Steven Spielberg was obviously watching his own movie 387 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:51.400 and stayed through the commercial break and he saw your 388 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:53.039 show and he called me and wanted to know who 389 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:56.480 did it. That's how I met Steven. So I went 390 00:22:56.519 --> 00:22:59.359 and sat down with Stephen and he happened like a 391 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.680 Schwab story. He happened to see that episode and he 392 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:06.119 walked in his office and amble and and you know, 393 00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:10.519 my heart's through my mouth at that point. He's the 394 00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:13.759 most disarming, kind, warm human ever. So that goes away 395 00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:17.079 in thirty seconds. But he didn't even let me say anything. 396 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:20.200 He said, Okay, let me tell you about your last 397 00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:23.440 three years. And I look at him, and he proceeds 398 00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:27.039 to tell me exactly what I had been going through 399 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:32.480 as a young director under contract in television. And I'm 400 00:23:32.519 --> 00:23:35.839 like my jaws hanging open, and he's loving it, and 401 00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:38.759