WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.960 --> 00:00:05.559 Baptizing. Yeah, he's oh, this is a question. Is the 2 00:00:05.559 --> 00:00:07.080 canon scripture open? 3 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:13.119 No, I don't think the canon is open. It was closed, 4 00:00:13.160 --> 00:00:15.240 you could say, in a loose sense in terms of 5 00:00:15.279 --> 00:00:18.440 the Sixth Ecumenical Council, the Seventh Ecumenical Council and its 6 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:22.879 affirmations of Trollo and Carthage. But in the Orthodox Church 7 00:00:23.559 --> 00:00:26.879 there's flexibility in the sense of like tradition in the 8 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:30.679 you know, proto Evangelian James, or tradition in the Book 9 00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:34.159 of Nach or you know. It's not the way that 10 00:00:34.240 --> 00:00:38.399 a Protestant thinks of the canon being closed, like there's 11 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:43.359 nothing else that's quote tradition or acceptable, because the early 12 00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:48.039 Church is even pretty late in the game, had minor 13 00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:51.520 variations in what they accepted in terms of the Old 14 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:54.920 and New Testament. So not in the way that a 15 00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:57.520 Protestant thinks. But in the Orthodox sense, yes, there's a 16 00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:01.039 loose in other words, even for the few books that 17 00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:07.959 were somewhat disputed, like the Letters of Clement, which some 18 00:01:08.079 --> 00:01:10.680 church fathers thought is part of the New Testament. Like 19 00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:14.120 we're not going to say that you're you know, if 20 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:16.480 you had a tradition in your in your church, like 21 00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:20.040 that that you included, Oh, you're outside the church because 22 00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:23.719 I mean, those books are still part of the Orthodox tradition. 23 00:01:23.959 --> 00:01:26.280 Clement's a you know, church father and a Saint Clement 24 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:29.920 of Rome, but we don't include our New Testament, and 25 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:33.480 so in that sense there's flexibility. But I wouldn't call 26 00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:36.079 that an open canon as if there would be any 27 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:37.840 new books. Does that make sense? 28 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:41.959 Yeah, yeah, it's a good thing to tackle Orthodox Amongst 29 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:44.560 five dollars. I saw an interview with an elderly gentleman 30 00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:47.480 who was in Mormon. At one point he said that 31 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:50.439 there were some Satanist elements with Mormonism. You want to 32 00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:51.159 answer to that. 33 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:54.239 There are. I don't know exactly how widespread it is, 34 00:01:54.280 --> 00:01:57.280 but we just covered a few months ago in my 35 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:03.359 podcast with Chiller Queen on my channel. She went really 36 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:07.319 deep into the David Hambling case and that is a 37 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:09.879 recent Mormon SR case. 38 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:13.800 Yes, interesting Extangley twenty bucks. Could there ever be a 39 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:16.960 situation in the present day where public divine revelation would 40 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:22.159 be implemented, for example, after catastrophic, near civilization ending incidents. 41 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:26.199 No, I don't see why we would need that. I mean, 42 00:02:26.599 --> 00:02:30.800 I think the attitude, the assumption of the New Testament 43 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:34.719 and the Church Fathers is typically that we have what 44 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:38.879 we need until the end and there won't be a 45 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:41.759 need for new public divine revelation. 46 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:44.000 I've never heard anybody argue for that. 47 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:47.479 Yeah, I think Stangley is like pushing to like if 48 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:50.080 there was a scenario where it was almost like you 49 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:56.719 were pressured to make a declaration of what there is 50 00:02:56.759 --> 00:03:00.639 to do from that point on, given that it's never existed, 51 00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:03.319 like the conditions never existed, Like would it would it 52 00:03:03.400 --> 00:03:06.080 sort of like provocate something? But I don't know. I 53 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:09.439 wouldn't see how that would provocate, uh, something that would 54 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:13.599 be called a revelation rather than like a collective approach 55 00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:16.479 to how to respond to the reality that you're in, 56 00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:19.599 which I don't see how there would be any extra 57 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:22.960 anything extra, Like Jay said, everything you need for practice 58 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:26.639 we have already. Even in the circumstances that are that 59 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:32.319 are dire and overwhelming and horrific, we still have what 60 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:35.840 you would be prescribed as the practice of Christianity, right 61 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:40.319 even if even meant death was ahead. 62 00:03:40.719 --> 00:03:43.319 If you read the little book from the Jordanville Monastery 63 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:46.599 that's put out called Apostacy and Antichrist, which is just 64 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:50.319 a collection of statements from church fathers and saints and 65 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:55.680 elders about the end times. There's nothing like that in there. 66 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:59.199 It's the assumption is that we have everything that we 67 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:03.560 need for that time, and the Church, through the presence 68 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:05.439 of the Holy Spirit in the church, will know what 69 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:06.360 to do in that time. 70 00:04:06.439 --> 00:04:08.199 But it wouldn't require new revelations. 71 00:04:08.719 --> 00:04:12.280 Mmmm. Fabian five Bucks says, would you say that the 72 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:19.839 marry apparitions of Magidori, Yeah, edjugory add to the public 73 00:04:19.879 --> 00:04:21.160 divine revelation. 74 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:24.199 In the Roman Catholic system. I think you definitely could 75 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:28.399 make this argument, because even though they technically believe that 76 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:31.839 public divine revelation ceased with the death of John the Apostle, 77 00:04:32.720 --> 00:04:38.680 the practice and attitude of many Roman Catholics, even amongst 78 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:43.920 the clerics, definitely treats so called Marian apparitions and fatom 79 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:48.079 of visions and claims and magic glory claims like divine revelation. 80 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:51.240 In fact, I would argue many Roman Catholics actually treat 81 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:54.879 Mariyan stuff above scripture and divine revelation. 82 00:04:55.600 --> 00:05:00.079 Interesting extantly made a clarification here he said, what I 83 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.360 I mean is if the traditions, oh, if the tradition 84 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:06.759 was lost, like all knowledge of practice was lost. That 85 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:08.920 wouldn't mean all people were lost, though, I guess the 86 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:13.439 hypothetical extanglee would be like within let's say Orthodoxy, if 87 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:16.360 if everyone died, Jay, I guess the better question is, 88 00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:19.639 is everyone who claimed to be Orthodox and practiced Orthodoxy, 89 00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:24.079 who was baptized into Orthodoxy didn't exist, but other people existed? 90 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:24.800 Like? 91 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:26.160 Is that that? 92 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:28.600 No, I would say. 93 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:31.879 I mean, Matthew sixteen promises that the Church cannot be 94 00:05:31.959 --> 00:05:34.519 extinguished even to the end of the world. So when 95 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:39.199 Christ returns, there will still be an episcopacy, episcope bishops 96 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:41.720 that are faithful to the teaching and to the end 97 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:44.079 of the world. So we agree with the Roman Catholics 98 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:47.560 on that principle. Romancalics just restrict that to the papacy. 99 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:50.199 We actually don't think that the papacy has given any 100 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:55.560 special promises, but there will always be true, real episcopate 101 00:05:55.959 --> 00:05:58.040 ruling bishops to the return of Christ. 102 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:00.319 Yeah, even if there were like three or so some thing. 103 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:02.920 I mean, it could be extinctly reduced to a very 104 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:05.240 small number in a great apostacy. 105 00:06:05.279 --> 00:06:05.879 That's possible. 106 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:09.160 Yet, Yeah, because when I see the word tradition. I 107 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:12.560 can't really separate that from the people who hold the 108 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:15.759 knowledge in the history. So what is tradition If it's 109 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:19.160 not that? Let me see what else I got here, 110 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:22.959 Jordan five bucks. Most things I learned about Mormonism came 111 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:25.279 from South Park and the musical those guys made. I 112 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:27.839 appreciate you all discussing it either. It was great. Jay. 113 00:06:27.879 --> 00:06:29.240 I don't know if you ever. 114 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:31.600 I've never seen the full thing. 115 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:34.480 Yeah, so funny. It's just so funny. 116 00:06:34.759 --> 00:06:36.800 Does it Does it actually go into a lot of 117 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:37.480 what we talked about. 118 00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:41.439 Yeah, it's more superficial. It won't get as in depth. 119 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:46.399 But as far as the amount of laughter per minute turnover, 120 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:49.240 it's the highest I've ever seen, including any stand up 121 00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:52.879 comedy I've ever seen. Oh wow, it's so funny and 122 00:06:52.920 --> 00:06:57.040 well executed. Well. Manuel another thirty dollars thirty paces endless 123 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:59.519 celestial superchat goals. Thank you so much for that. You 124 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:02.519 guys again, we're at thirty six of fifty of the 125 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:07.000 next goal. I am giving Jay Dyer here half of 126 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:10.279 the super chats today. Why because I'm outsourcing the knowledge 127 00:07:10.279 --> 00:07:12.839 of Mormonism and I'm presenting it to you guys. So 128 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:17.480 he's earning his keep, so make sure you give him 129 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:20.480 the grift money that he deserves for coming over here 130 00:07:20.519 --> 00:07:23.360 and teaching us some things. Okay. H. Brosse nineteen ninety 131 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:26.079 nine For Jay, I saw that interaction with the Redhead 132 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:31.399 Libertarian chick on Twitter. Libertarians are just Americanist Muslims. Interesting. 133 00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:34.639 I've never heard that term. Ask them an epistemic question 134 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:37.120 and they just point back to what you ask them to. Justin, 135 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:39.240 are you talking about who used to be like the 136 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:43.360 wasn't she usually wasn't the redded Libertarian, the sort of 137 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:47.240 like promoter or booker for Tim Poole? Or am I 138 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:50.040 confusing though with someone else she's been on there? 139 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:52.480 I don't know. I think she hosted debates and stuff 140 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:55.000 and we were dming and I was trying to set 141 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:57.279 up a debate and then I don't know if I 142 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:00.319 made her mat or what. But we've been trying while 143 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:04.079 to set up various debates on there, so I'm definitely 144 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:07.120 down for it. But uh, yeah, I just think that 145 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:10.160 you know, as as you know, as we've talked about 146 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:13.720 many times, people don't know what is meant by justifications. 147 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:18.120 If you question a person's assertions as to what self evident. 148 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:23.600 Enlightenment principles are rights, you know, lockey in ideas, like, 149 00:08:23.920 --> 00:08:26.240 you know, you ask them what's the justification for that? 150 00:08:26.279 --> 00:08:29.240 They think you mean in a colloquial sense, like you 151 00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:31.040 don't have none to back that up, you know what 152 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:34.960 I mean. No, that's not what justification means. Justification means 153 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:38.720 j TB, etcetera. Right, So they just assume that you're 154 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:41.919 saying that there's no reasonablyieve those things, and then they'll 155 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:44.080 say stuff like, you know, she said something like did 156 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:46.639 you read the preamble and the Declaration of Independence? And 157 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:49.879 look with the look where the church fathers went through 158 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:55.679 or another church, well, their church fathers went through, how 159 00:08:55.679 --> 00:08:56.320 does them go to? 160 00:08:56.919 --> 00:08:59.879 And Shapiro's church fathers are definitely the founding fathers, that's true. 161 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:04.000 They they kind of work, they make basically sort of 162 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:08.919 make the Constitution some sort of new divine oh yeah thing. 163 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:10.799 And by the. 164 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:14.200 Way, Mormons believe very similarly that like the Constitution is 165 00:09:14.240 --> 00:09:18.320 divinely inspired, that it's like the Mormon Church because it's 166 00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:21.480 in America. America's just hollowed brown and they have the 167 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:24.879 what you heard me say, the White Horse prophecy. Right, Yeah, 168 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:27.080 Mormons are going to save America in the Constitution. 169 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:31.159 So yeah, it's so weird, so boomery, it's like it 170 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:35.440 totally is. Yeah, Aaron Cumple for ninety nine. I wanted 171 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:38.320 to hear Jay's thoughts on the Seventh Day Adventism. I 172 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:41.759 come from a family of SDA members in the origins 173 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:43.879 of it are pretty wacky. You want to riff on 174 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:44.480 that for a second. 175 00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:48.600 Well, again, there's no new revelations. And if that's the case, 176 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:51.720 that immediately cut crosses out Ellen White because Ellen White 177 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:54.519 was a charismatic. She believed in new charismatic divine revelation 178 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:58.080 as all the cults tend to do, much like Joseph Smith, 179 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:01.600 much like new revelations to mohamm And by the way, 180 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:05.960 remember in the Hadiths, Mohammed thought he was possessed because 181 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:10.080 he would fall down having these seemingly epileptic fits when 182 00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:13.080 he was getting his revelations, and he had to be 183 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:19.279 convinced by other persons that he wasn't demonically possessed. Now, 184 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:22.720 if you look at the Great Awakening, when Jonathan Edwards 185 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:25.639 starts preaching his you know, sentners in the hands of 186 00:10:25.639 --> 00:10:30.840 an angry God, you have America's first outbreak of charismatic 187 00:10:31.399 --> 00:10:34.960 events where people start talking gibberish, flopping on the ground. 188 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:39.559 They think they're getting possessed. So the manifestations are very 189 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:46.320 similar between what is epilepsy possession and charismatic gifts. 190 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:47.559 And manifestations you see. 191 00:10:48.279 --> 00:10:50.879 And it's no different with other cults like Seven Day 192 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:53.840 Adventism in the sense that when Ellen White starts preaching 193 00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:56.919 her new revelation, she thinks that it's new divine revelations 194 00:10:56.960 --> 00:11:01.120 from the Holy Spirit. So again, if you go watch 195 00:11:01.399 --> 00:11:03.480 my I'm gonna clip it out because it needs to 196 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:08.480 be clipped. Zechrai thirteen says in the Messianic era, there's 197 00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:14.039 no more prophets. Prophets are done Jude three, Jami thirteen, 198 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:18.399 Dieramy eighteen, Galatians one, Relations twenty two. All these loops 199 00:11:18.399 --> 00:11:21.799 sixteen sixteen, all these passages make it clear that there's 200 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:24.840 a finality to the work of Christ and the teaching 201 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:29.879 of the apostles, such that it doesn't continue to get updates. 202 00:11:30.440 --> 00:11:31.039 It's done. 203 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:37.240 Yeah, crash Man another two bucks JW. Believe that Michael 204 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:39.840 is pre post Jesus on Earth. 205 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:46.120 Yeah, Michael the archangel. They think that that's Jesus. 206 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:49.320 Right, I mean, why not just throw that in there. 207 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:54.440 Jack ten Bucks says, jay is the energy's essence distinction, 208 00:11:54.519 --> 00:11:58.200 implying that the energies are distinct from God's essence. And 209 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:02.279 would you consider distinction a deliberate portioning of God into 210 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:04.039 composite parts. 211 00:12:04.360 --> 00:12:06.679 No, Just like every church father that defended the trinity, 212 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:10.440 when they talk about the distinction between the hypostases the persons, 213 00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:13.440 they point out that a distinction between the Father and 214 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:17.399 the son does not entail composition or division, and so 215 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:21.799 complex unities are something that the church fathers, particularly the Cappadocians, 216 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:25.360 dealt with all the time when they were refuting Aryan 217 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:30.039 and Eunomian arguments about the necessity of simplicity or divine simplicity, 218 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:36.840 such that if you took the Plutonian Platinus distinction or 219 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:41.120 definition as to what simplicity is, Platinus says that any 220 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:46.600 distinction entels composition. Well, obviously that doesn't work with the trinity. 221 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:50.279 So the Cappadotionans, just from the outset, rejected that model 222 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:53.840 of what simplicity is, and so they define simplicity in 223 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:57.000 terms of first and foremost, God is simple because he's 224 00:12:57.240 --> 00:13:02.960 noncomposite and he's acts and is not acted upon. Secondly, 225 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:06.600 the distinctions in God are not parts, They're not com 226 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:09.840 He's not composed as if he's put together. But it 227 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:15.639 is a transcendent unity that was always the case in 228 00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:19.600 such that the persons in dwell one another and the 229 00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:24.240 divine nature in dwells the person's fully in a impartial way. 230 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:27.679 That it's a unique relationship in terms of the trinity. 231 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:31.960 So if that's true of the hypostaces. The Cappadocians themselves 232 00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:36.000 also argued, as does Palamas, the distinction between God and 233 00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:39.919 his works, or his actions or his operations is no 234 00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:43.799 more a composition relationship than are the persons. 235 00:13:44.200 --> 00:13:47.720 Right, And just to be clear, an essence or a 236 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:50.759 nature doesn't do anything, so it would never be the 237 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:55.240 thing a what like if we said God, what is God? 238 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:58.879 Is a different question of who is God? And how 239 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:02.279 how does God act? But is there it wouldn't be 240 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:04.879 one to one analogous. But isn't there a couple examples 241 00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:10.000 in our created reality of distinction without separation people use 242 00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:10.519 are like. 243 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:15.039 The Cappadocian argument at this very point is if a 244 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:18.000 person builds a house, right, you would think of them 245 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:22.879 doing an action that involves something proper to their nature. 246 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:25.080 So a human being working to build a house and 247 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:28.360 put rooms and this, and that I'm the person, Jay, 248 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:32.399 My nature is human nature. It's a fully human action, 249 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:36.240 proper too and consistent with my nature to build a house. 250 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:41.559 I'm fully present in every action and work or energy 251 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:44.240 that I use to build a house. But I am 252 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:48.120 not reducible to or identical to the action of building 253 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:50.960 a house, nor the energy that I use to build 254 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:53.960 that house. And the Cappa docs use that very argument 255 00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:58.240 to say that God builds or creates a world. It's 256 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.240 the energy of creating that is proper to doing that 257 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:04.279 proper to a divine being and proper to that divine nature. 258 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:08.399 But that divine nature is not identical to creating a world, 259 00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:11.080 because if it was, you would have a modal collapse argument. 260 00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:14.919 Because God's essence or nature is eternal and simple and necessary, 261 00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:18.559 then creating would also be eternal, simple and necessary. That 262 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:21.240 would deny God's free will. That's the motal collapse argument. 263 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:23.759 And so God is fully present in every one of 264 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:27.639 his actions or energies without being reducible to them and 265 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:28.799 without having parts. 266 00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:32.399 Yeah, that's a good example. Jack, you're a musician. When 267 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:34.919 I talk to Chase, who explained exactly what Jad did. 268 00:15:35.000 --> 00:15:38.360 He use the music itself in place of let's say 269 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:42.559 the house argument, where you're a human and I'm a human, Jack, 270 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:46.559 and we share a nature, but we don't share the 271 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:52.399 same musical expression. There's a distinction between the two, and 272 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:59.240 so I think once people get distinction without separation, then 273 00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:02.720 that question Jack, which is common. I'm sure Jay's heard 274 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:05.200 it maybe fifty thousand times at this point, but for 275 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:07.440 anyone who hasn't heard it, I'm glad that you did 276 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:10.840 ask it, Jack, because it's an important question. Even if 277 00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:13.440 you have covered it seven thousand billion times like that. 278 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:15.000 It's okay. And I mean where you know, there's many 279 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:17.399 places in scripture. If you read the dial the debate 280 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:22.120 between a dialogue between a Barlemite and Orthodox by palain Os, 281 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:25.360 one of the first texts that comes up is God 282 00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:29.279 rested from the work of creating. There's some way in 283 00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:33.360 which God did a unique, specific action to create the 284 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:37.720 world and then did not continue to create, because. 285 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:40.799 It's not unlike the Muslim God, who it's in his 286 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:44.039 nature to be ever generating, so he can't not create, correct, 287 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:49.320 Like if there was a God, who's whose nature was ever. 288 00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:53.559 I mean, you would think that they would say that, 289 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:56.759 but they don't. It's it's difficult to translate the modal 290 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:00.600 collapse argument to the Muslims because they don't think of 291 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:06.759 Allah as pure act, but Catholics do so. But the 292 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:09.480 other passage is that we read in the scriptures that 293 00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:14.319 there's seven spirits of God. Nobody believes that the Holy 294 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:18.039 Spirit has seven persons. There's not seven holy spirits. And 295 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:20.400 yet we're told that there's the spirit of wisdom, knowledge, 296 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:22.839 et cetera, and that they rested upon the Messiah when 297 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:26.359 he became incarnate. And so the only way to explain 298 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:29.359 the seven spirits as yet another example is to say 299 00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:34.000 that their energy is proper to the triad. So persons, 300 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:38.039 like nobody believes they're persons, they're not creatures, because divine 301 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:42.079 knowledge is not a creature. So the seven spirits, Palamos 302 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:45.839 argues against Barlem have to be energies. The energies are 303 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:47.839 also in the New Testament. Paul says many times over 304 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:50.839 that it's the energy the Holy Spirit that are the 305 00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:53.920 gifts of the spirit, and First Corinthians uses the term inergaya. 306 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:56.640 It's in the Greek, so it's a New Testament teaching, 307 00:17:56.680 --> 00:17:59.319 it's an Old Testament teaching. Likewise, this is how we 308 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:02.000 have to say often right. So this is why you saw, 309 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:05.480 for example, Thomas collapsing in the last few months, because 310 00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:08.279 they can't admit that there's the Ofphane's in the Old Testament, 311 00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:11.279 because in their view, God is absolutely simple. He can't 312 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:13.160 be in time and space, and so they have to 313 00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:15.319 say that the aims of the Lord that the often 314 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:18.000 is in the Old Testament Leviticus, not the glory manifest 315 00:18:18.079 --> 00:18:20.000 him before all Israel. They have to say, that's a creature, 316 00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:22.920 but it's called God's glory. God's Glory's not a creature. 317 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:26.720 Yeah. Interesting, Yeah, all that. Thank you for that question though, 318 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:30.640 Jack appreciate it. John Castle are so damn I keep there. 319 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:32.519 I have two castles who follow me, and I just 320 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:37.200 keep mistaking their names. Jason, Jason, thank you so much, 321 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:40.799 very generous, whopping one hundred dollars. W's in the chat 322 00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:44.839 for Jason Kassel. Joseph Smith visited me last night and 323 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.599 made me the new prophet. I was given tablets. This 324 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:50.440 time they were platinum, Yeah, the heavy dense metal. This 325 00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:53.680 time they state sorry, guys, I was wrong become Orthodox. 326 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:58.400 They are correct, it was a mistranslation. Better luck next time. 327 00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:01.079 Joey Schmidty, thank you so much. That's hilarious. 328 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:04.480 I don't see why we couldn't, you know, have this right. 329 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:08.200 I mean, if if prior revelation can be wrong, uh, 330 00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:11.400 why can't the new revelation also be wrong? 331 00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:18.119 Yeah? Well it's similar, like in it's not it's not 332 00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:20.519 entirely similar, but it's a kind of a funny uh 333 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:24.440 clapback at people who are determinists, like a Calvinist, and 334 00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:26.480 they ask, you know, if they ever asked me, why 335 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:31.920 did I choose uh to uh become baptized in Orthodoxy, 336 00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:34.279 they already have the answer. I was determined to. So 337 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:40.400 same thing with Muslims. I asked them. Instead of debating 338 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:42.640 to the high level that I can't do anyway that 339 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:45.000 Jay does with this stuff, I just asked these like 340 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:49.480 more like I don't know, more broad questions to these 341 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:52.920 people and say, don't you believe that Allah dictated that 342 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:56.200 I reject Islam? I mean, isn't that just the fact 343 00:19:56.200 --> 00:19:58.599 of the matter from your view? They really have to 344 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:01.119 say yes, right, So I'm like, well, why are we 345 00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:03.240 debating honestly, why are we debating? I mean, if you 346 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:06.720 want to debate nerd stuff, go to Jay's channel. But ultimately, 347 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:08.680 I'm just gonna I'm just gonna hit you with that 348 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:13.160 every time. L two five bucks tired of live reactions. 349 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:16.119 No twenty five Christians versus Alex O'Connor would be cool. 350 00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:18.119 I thought he did they not do that, or I 351 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:18.839 thought they did that. 352 00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:19.960 I thought they did too. 353 00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:24.000 I don't know, would you do that? Surrounded, Jubilee Jade 354 00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:24.880 Dier surrounded? 355 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:30.079 I mean the questioners are not, from what I've seen, 356 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:33.920 very high tier. So we've already we already kind of 357 00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:35.359 do that when we open it up to the. 358 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:39.119 Yeah, the formats rushed too. That's the only thing I 359 00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:41.279 don't like. I like, I like that it exists, but 360 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:44.559 I think of about it for me, like what's required 361 00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:47.160 for like a good back and forth. Yeah, it's not 362 00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:50.200 a pressure three to five minutes with people voting you. 363 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:53.519 I mean, that's just like, oh man, you're bound to 364 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:57.440 make a mistake too. H Brossei four ninety nine. This 365 00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:00.279 is a reply to that super about Alex O'Connor. Please 366 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.119 don't ever react to anything involving him. The Soy from 367 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:07.839 his body permeates through the phone. I'm thinking you likely 368 00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:10.839 engage with him at some big I. 369 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:13.839 Mean I've you know, I've sent so many messages and 370 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:17.799 emails and it always just gets ignored. So I mean, 371 00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:24.279 I I even I re messaged publicly Nole's Dave Smith 372 00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:28.880 Ben Shapiro again today and it's just it's always going 373 00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:29.559 to be ignored. 374 00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:31.240 I've messaged at that guy many times too. 375 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:35.359 I think you have too much information. I think I 376 00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:38.440 think that you're just your your autistic, oversized head has 377 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:41.480 too much information. Because they don't, they won't be able 378 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:44.960 to like go at it at the granular level with 379 00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:47.480 with you. So maybe they just don't. They're just like 380 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:49.440 I can't do that. I'm not going to do that 381 00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:51.359 to my Like well. 382 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:53.519 That also just from on a more practical level, like 383 00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:55.640 what do they gain from debating? 384 00:21:57.839 --> 00:21:59.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. That's a good way it look. 385 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:03.000 You know, it's like why would even that, Like people 386 00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:06.480 have been trying to pressure inspiring philosophy to debate me 387 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:10.920 on evolution, even if it tied into could create a 388 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:14.480 Christian view accommodate a never changing Ultimately, it's a never changing, 389 00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:20.519 non existing human universal could that exist? It just can't. 390 00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:23.759 It just it's just like a complete disaster. There's nothing 391 00:22:23.799 --> 00:22:27.359 he could gain from debating that with someone lower on 392 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:30.079 the on the notoriety scale, which surprised. 393 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:32.000 Me because I think that the only way that back 394 00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:33.880 you know, a few years ago, that I got del 395 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:39.279 Hunty and Molineu to do those debates was because enough 396 00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:42.160 people eventually was in their chat. 397 00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:44.319 Sure, yeah, yeah, that's the only way. 398 00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:48.880 Yeah yeah. And I also joked and I watched the 399 00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:54.079 who is that Greek dude? I already forgot his name? 400 00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:57.400 You know, he's he's a feelings based thing. We roasted 401 00:22:57.480 --> 00:23:00.400 him a bunch of times here on the news channel, No, 402 00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:04.880 the prop channel that does like the Avengers or whatever. 403 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:08.880 George Jenko, Sorry, like I was, we were all laughing 404 00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:10.160 at one chat. I don't know if you were here. 405 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:12.880 We're like, imagine Jay up there like trying to like 406 00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:18.720 navigate being nice and being accommodating with like losing your shit, 407 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:20.880 but like how do you sit on the white couch 408 00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:24.079 and like, you know, you're grateful for the platform, but 409 00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:26.599 you're like, h like, I don't know, you know what's. 410 00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:28.519 Unfair about all that too, is like you and I 411 00:23:28.599 --> 00:23:32.799 both have many times been on media platforms where it 412 00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:40.319 was conversational or interview format or you know whatever, and 413 00:23:40.359 --> 00:23:44.119 then people act like, oh you dudes, No, I give 414 00:23:44.440 --> 00:23:47.960 anybody what they want out of the exchange. So if 415 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:50.599 you have me on a podcast to just talk, yeah, 416 00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:54.000 I mean I've done the streams with IP where we 417 00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:56.640 just went through you know, church fathers proving that they 418 00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.799 were not anti trinitarian, Like I wasn't there to debate 419 00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:03.440 that have to debate him. So it's not people pretend 420 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:06.319 like we're these villains and the we're these awful people 421 00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:08.839 who don't actually just get people what they want. 422 00:24:09.079 --> 00:24:09.359 Yeah. 423 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:12.000 I mean you've demonstrated on Tim Poole like you then 424 00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:15.079 jump in and try to do like meta attacks on 425 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:18.119 all of these things, even though you could probably see 426 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:20.839 the assumptions a million miles away that you can challenge. 427 00:24:20.839 --> 00:24:25.279 It's like, you know how to play on the particular 428 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:28.000 platform you're on. There are some rules there. If you 429 00:24:28.039 --> 00:24:29.640 want to be invited back, you're not going. 430 00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:30.000 To do this. 431 00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:33.880 Put the stick in the spoke of the wheel. I mean, 432 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:35.200 it's not good for anyone. 433 00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:38.480 Ran right, like if Ruslan and he said, oh, you 434 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:41.799 can come on the podcast Okay, I would be fine 435 00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:45.440 coming on there to do it a debate formal or informal, 436 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:49.440 or just have a conversation another like, I don't demand debates. 437 00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:49.759 You know. 438 00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:52.359 It's like people think that when you ask would you 439 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:54.920 like to do this? Then they get but hurt and 440 00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:57.640 then they act like you're this villain. It's like, well, we. 441 00:24:57.559 --> 00:24:59.759 Don't have to do that. Yeah, you could just do 442 00:24:59.799 --> 00:25:04.640 it conversation. David Murdoch art ten dollars. Thank you so much. 443 00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:08.400 Look up Mormonism, Shadow or Reality by Gerald and Sandra 444 00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:11.160 tan or X. Mormon's books is seven hundred pages tons 445 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:14.559 of content. They made a pdf available online free under 446 00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:18.519 creative comments. Yeah, the people who leave and sort of 447 00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:21.200 expose the extra stuff you might not see is kind 448 00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:24.039 of fascinating. Honestly. Maybe the best thing with that is, 449 00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:27.200 like have someone like that on to tell tell the 450 00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:33.359 tales right directly. So Justin says I can be baptized 451 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.720 to whiteness. Well, Justin, you're only like, what are you 452 00:25:36.759 --> 00:25:39.960 like thirty one percent black? I'm not sure. I don't 453 00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:40.880 you wouldn't. 454 00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:45.359 I don't know if they tripled that like Obama level. 455 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:48.119 Yeah, you know, I don't even know if you count 456 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:52.119 honestly with your own L two A two bucks will 457 00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.440 Jay's live stream. Yeah, he said he's gonna clip it 458 00:25:55.480 --> 00:25:55.880 and make it. 459 00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:57.839 Well, I'm a clip just a fifteen minute a part, 460 00:25:57.880 --> 00:25:59.839 but it's it's posted as a member's talk. 461 00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:03.400 Yes, yeah, go get a membership over at Jay's. Again, 462 00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:07.759 we're at four. We got eleven to hit the goal here, folks, again, 463 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:10.240 fifty one minutes, plenty of time to do it. But 464 00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:12.720 just so you know, half of the donations today the 465 00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:17.079 super chats will go to Jay for his autistic level. 466 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:18.640 You want to see if Jack wants to come on 467 00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:21.559 the debate, because this guy's asking like totally ridiculous stuff. 468 00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:24.200 Oh is this it? Okay? Jack says for another ten 469 00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:27.000 there's some greatest and orthodox commenters on YouTube. What do 470 00:26:27.079 --> 00:26:32.319 you mean commenters? Commentators are commenters that break down the 471 00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:36.680 growing tide of false catech humans. I'm not sure what 472 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:39.480 that means, a false catechumen. There's a great video showing 473 00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:43.200 some clown and is endorsing wicka Phase calling. 474 00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:45.759 Me the clown because I was friends with Wickiphase, so 475 00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:47.559 I got Wickiphase to. 476 00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:49.039 Get an Orthodox study Bible. 477 00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:51.720 And these people are just pretending like I'm some sort 478 00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:57.200 of secret WICCA, even though we've done countless podcasts against WICCA. 479 00:26:58.160 --> 00:27:00.799 Yeah, I mean yeah. To be fair on the internet, 480 00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:04.119 there's going to be tons of subversive activity people who 481 00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:06.720 I mean, Jay, You've caught people on this multiple times 482 00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:09.720 where you say when did you when did you get baptized? 483 00:27:09.799 --> 00:27:12.039 Or where whatever? Whatever the pointed question. 484 00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:15.799 He's saying that I'm a false teacher, creating false Cindy 485 00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:16.160 of Cumans. 486 00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:16.960 He's talking about me. 487 00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:20.480 I'm the clown that he's talking about, but he doesn't 488 00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:22.559 want he's trying to be funny. 489 00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:25.559 Okay, is that I don't know if Jack, can you 490 00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:29.960 affirm that that's what you're pointing to because it's from 491 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:34.000 the Diamond. Yeah, but that's silly Jack, if that's the case, 492 00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:42.400 because I'm Jay is largely influential in You're fake fake, Well, 493 00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:44.759 I don't know. There was nothing fake about the two 494 00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:49.200 hours of Lifelong Confessions I just did this morning. Piano didn't. 495 00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:53.759 That's just piano Dean five bucks. There's a clip of 496 00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:57.400 Mike Wallace asking h Who's Mike Wallace asking Mormon prophet 497 00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:00.640 Gordon Hinckley about the black people think and his answer 498 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.359 is a total cop out. Well, I figured it's hard 499 00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:07.799 to Yeah, yeah, that's a hard thing to engage with, 500 00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:11.559 that one to defend. I mean, it's so brutal that 501 00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:14.640 the two thirds who stayed neutral in the vote in 502 00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:19.920 the in the celestial vote got doomed. They're they're saying 503 00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:23.839 you're doomed. You're doomed with your skin DCMS nine ninety nine. 504 00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:25.880 Big love for Jim, Jim, Bob and Jay. Notice more 505 00:28:25.960 --> 00:28:29.759 Mormons in the UK lately stopped twice by missionaries last month. 506 00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:32.519 Don't get the appeal. It's one of the more obvious 507 00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:36.279 BS cults. Well, Jay and I briefly talked on why 508 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:41.319 it is that's that's appealing. If it's feelings based, you know, 509 00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:44.160 and that's the level at which you're pursuing or inquiring 510 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:47.359 about it, whether or not a theology or a church 511 00:28:47.440 --> 00:28:49.200 is true. I mean, you're gonna get caught up in 512 00:28:49.240 --> 00:28:51.319 a lot of different stuff if it's if it's just 513 00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:57.039 feeling space, which I'm that's unfortunate. Extendally at ten Bucks, 514 00:28:57.039 --> 00:28:59.799 I didn't know LDS was so wild. I didn't know either. 515 00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:04.920 Now I see where Brandon Sanderson gets all his imagination from. 516 00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:08.759 It is pretty wild. Every time I was texted, I 517 00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:12.960 told you before I'm about to edit a cartoon, and 518 00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:15.359 I was just like kind of trying to source from 519 00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:19.759 people who are knowledgeable the most ridiculous things about Mormonism, 520 00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:21.799 and Jay was texting me things and I thought he 521 00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:23.680 was messing with me. I thought, I was like, this 522 00:29:23.720 --> 00:29:25.920 guy's messing with me, and he was like, no, no, 523 00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:32.880 these are these are legitimate things that they actually hold to. Spireau, 524 00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:35.680 thank you so much for your Canadian twenty dollars third 525 00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:40.160 generation x JW. Here for thirty plus years. Wow, saw 526 00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:42.920 everything there was to see in that religion was all involved, 527 00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:45.200 top to bottom. If you ever want to do a 528 00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:48.240 JW stream and need info, I got you and then 529 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:50.880 some have debated a few too. That's that's interesting. I 530 00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:54.519 didn't know that about you, Spiro or Spireau. I didn't 531 00:29:54.519 --> 00:29:58.839 know that that that was your thirty years of experience. Wow. 532 00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:03.000 The Kraken five Bucks Journal of Discourses, page two eighty 533 00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:06.200 nine says no man in this dispensation will ever enter 534 00:30:06.279 --> 00:30:08.640 into the celestial Kingdom of God without the consent of 535 00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:12.359 Joseph Smith. Can you still get consent? That's the other 536 00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:14.519 question I have. Jay is like, do they engage with 537 00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:17.559 Joseph Smith in some weird way today, Like is there 538 00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:24.319 like a method to them now sort of participating if 539 00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:27.799 you will, with Joseph himself. I didn't get that so far. 540 00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:31.039 You mean, like does he speak to them or yeah, 541 00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:31.279 like do. 542 00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:33.640 They interact with him? Do they try to? Like is 543 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:34.240 there a thing? 544 00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:37.400 I've not heard that? But I mean he might appear 545 00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:39.920 in a vision who does well? 546 00:30:39.960 --> 00:30:45.000 Who knows? Yeah, h rowsy five bucks? No, No, not dash. 547 00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:47.799 I'm talking about the Jehovah witness chick. Oh before he 548 00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:50.400 asked about this, that Jehovah Witness check. You asked you 549 00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:52.960 a question and didn't have an answer for when you 550 00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:56.720 were younger. Those are more recent streams Jehovah witnesses. 551 00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:58.759 This is when I was like eighteen, like I was 552 00:30:58.759 --> 00:31:01.680 just what got me into apologetics was just when I 553 00:31:01.720 --> 00:31:04.359 was like eighteen and some Joe's Witness girl asked me 554 00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:08.240 about Versus and I didn't know what they meant because 555 00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:10.640 she was teaching that, you know, Jesus is a creature, 556 00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:12.319 He's not some of god. 557 00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:16.640 Weird sis and urcane five bucks. If you become quote 558 00:31:16.680 --> 00:31:18.920 God in the Mormon sense, you get all the green 559 00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:22.000 yellow and decaffeinated soda you want. I mean it is 560 00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:27.079 it's like it's like it's like modern consumerist Islam, so 561 00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:28.599 they just swap out the products. 562 00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:31.000 That's a good question, Like do you get to like 563 00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:35.240 bypass the absurd legalisms if you're a god? 564 00:31:35.960 --> 00:31:42.079 Yeah, that that's just it's insane. Rocky Shepherd five Bucks. 565 00:31:42.119 --> 00:31:45.759 I think we are in Satan's Little Reason of Revelations 566 00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:50.880 twenty seven through eight. The tribe of Millennial Rain are over. 567 00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:59.240 I don't know about that. No, nothing unknown TSJ five Bucks, 568 00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:03.000 E Joey Smith, Joey Smith, New Jersey Italian mobster. Have 569 00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:05.160 you guys seen the South Park episode about Joey Boy? 570 00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:07.440 Kind of funny? I didn't see that. I think I 571 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:09.200 need to get caught up on South Bark. I don't 572 00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:11.279 know why it's hard for me to watch things, honestly, 573 00:32:11.839 --> 00:32:14.640 I can't. Is there anything you watch, Jay that's like 574 00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:18.720 consistent where you're like, that's my thing, I watch that, 575 00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:19.039 you're all? 576 00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:22.359 I mean, I kind of Jamie and I kind of 577 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:26.400 cycle through some of the same shows that we've watched. 578 00:32:26.599 --> 00:32:29.640 So the most recent show that we watched was Parks 579 00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:31.759 and rec because I never finished it. Back when it 580 00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:33.119 was on. I got all the way up to like 581 00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:38.279 season four, So I mean, I appreciate that it's pretty funny. 582 00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:41.000 But other than that, I mean Mystery Science Theater, X File, 583 00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:45.680 psych Riff tracks about It's about what I watch. 584 00:32:45.799 --> 00:32:49.519 You've ever watched something that's just like so horrifically bad 585 00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:52.519 just for the sake of seeing how cringe it is? 586 00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:55.119 Like you know, Paradise Island, you know like those Yeah, 587 00:32:55.119 --> 00:32:59.839 we watched shows. Yeah, so those are like it's like 588 00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:01.920 a week week spot for me where I'm just like, 589 00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:05.039 can I see Because there's always these like sort of 590 00:33:05.480 --> 00:33:10.440 dating slash. I guess you would call them experiments, like 591 00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:15.839 actual social experiments. Right, They're kind of weird, but you 592 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:18.880 just can't look away. Uh tears, sword arm ten bucks. 593 00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:21.839 Mormons believe that there are more religious than everyone else. Right. 594 00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:24.640 Their final retreat is when all historical arguments and logic 595 00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:29.440 fail them, as by their fruits, yay shall know them. 596 00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:31.519 I don't know how they get into it, dude, I 597 00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:33.279 don't know how you I can see how people are 598 00:33:33.400 --> 00:33:36.559 raised Mormon and leave I can't. I still can't. I'm 599 00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:38.920 trying to figure out how someone actually just goes Yeah, 600 00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:40.759 I'm wanna go in. I'm gonna go in. From what 601 00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:46.119 I heard, I don't know. Ask a couple questions. It's done, 602 00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:48.200 big cheese. Five bucks. Are you guys familiar with the 603 00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:51.359 huge amount of land the LDS, Yes, land buys it. 604 00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:54.480 In fact, Jay just did a stream where he covered 605 00:33:55.400 --> 00:33:58.680 the influence was it the CIA and other things? That 606 00:33:59.599 --> 00:33:59.720 was it? 607 00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:03.519 The same how of it? But I mean, yeah, we 608 00:34:03.559 --> 00:34:05.680 talked to I just sort of stream on them being 609 00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:07.920 a giant corporation and hedgephon. 610 00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:11.360 Four hundred acres. Yeah, I mean four hundred thousand acres. 611 00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:15.760 If you're seen as a corporation, that's kind of what 612 00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:18.280 you would do. You just like make your religion a 613 00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:22.360 set of assets and and you know, from that view, 614 00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:24.519 why wouldn't you If you can get people to believe 615 00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:28.920 that theology. I'm they're not going to be suddenly surprised 616 00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:33.480 by a corporate structure. I don't. I don't see why 617 00:34:33.480 --> 00:34:36.639 they would bend five bucks, corn ob X, the Great 618 00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:41.000 Divine Bang check mark. I like this new format, Ben, 619 00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:43.719 I haven't seen that the X and the check mark 620 00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:46.599 President Sandown are five bucks. Let's be honest. Your shoulders 621 00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:49.400 are normal. It's your huge that's what I argue. I say, 622 00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:51.760 I have a TV head, it's not my shoulders. My 623 00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:54.840 friends disagree. They actually say, well, no, you got. It's 624 00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:58.559 kind of a bad combination of both. I basically have 625 00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:03.320 the silhouette of Peter English. Unfortunately, uh, George ten Bucks. 626 00:35:03.400 --> 00:35:06.719 With these cults, it seems like people in leadership inherit 627 00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:10.440 great wealth and an organization and assume they must be 628 00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:13.960 doing something right. JW jws also have a lot of 629 00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:17.480 property investments worldwide. Yeah, there's nothing actually you mentioned this 630 00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:20.280 on your stream, Jay, that was nothing actually wrong with 631 00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:23.800 the ownership of things. It's just that it's the the 632 00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:27.599 identity of the corporation is indistinguishable from the church, right, 633 00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:28.039 that's the. 634 00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:32.440 Churches are corporations. They have a host of shell corporations 635 00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:33.000 and hedge. 636 00:35:32.840 --> 00:35:34.480 Funds right right. 637 00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:36.719 And the megachurches model that same structure. 638 00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:40.519 Yeah, and it works for people, for the for the people, you'd, 639 00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:44.519 I guess you'd call them weird faux parishioners justin Henley 640 00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:47.760 five bucks. According to the Hadith, some seventy of one's 641 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:50.440 wives are plucked from the lake of fire. Well, you 642 00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:52.840 can pick your you know, picked from the fire. So 643 00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:58.880 two quote good Muslima and seventy purified Kafirs. Yeah, the hadiths. 644 00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:01.880 You've debated so many Muslims. Some of them go, well, no, 645 00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:06.639 the hadiths are these secondary set of things that people wrote. 646 00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:09.079 They don't have to all make sense to No. 647 00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:12.079 I mean many of the if it's sahiblhari, they have 648 00:36:12.159 --> 00:36:16.079 to believe it because those are strong. Oh. Interesting, see 649 00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:19.000 there are classes of them. There's weak ones and strong ones. 650 00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:21.559 But you don't if you're sunny, you don't get to say, 651 00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:22.159 oh I don't believe. 652 00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:26.000 Yeah, yeah, you can't a raw dog five dollars. Have 653 00:36:26.039 --> 00:36:29.239 you seen Ron Wyatt's video about testing the blood of 654 00:36:29.320 --> 00:36:31.159 Jesus from the shroud? If so, what are your fast 655 00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:33.119 I haven't seen that. I haven't covered the shroud thing 656 00:36:33.199 --> 00:36:35.760 at all. I have no access or knowledge. 657 00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:38.039 I just don't find any stuff convincing. I don't like. 658 00:36:38.239 --> 00:36:40.920 This is like the domain of like Roman Catholics just 659 00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:43.159 love this stuff. They go create trap. 660 00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:45.480 Honestly, if you double down on that stuff and then 661 00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:49.400 you suddenly act upon it in all these new ways 662 00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:52.360 and it turns out to be like something fake or 663 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:55.039 something doubtful about it, you're kind of you kind of 664 00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:57.199 put all your eggs into like this, like one little 665 00:36:57.599 --> 00:36:58.119 it shouldn't. 666 00:36:58.280 --> 00:37:03.400 But the blood, like what is going if he's fully human, 667 00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:05.719 testing the blood is not going to show anything anyway. 668 00:37:05.719 --> 00:37:08.440 It's just dumb, right right. It doesn't tell you much 669 00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:12.519 at all. Bobby C. Five bucks. Can Mormons establish their 670 00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:17.159 own morality quote if they achieve godhood and create morality? 671 00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:21.480 That's another good question about it. I didn't even think about, like, well, 672 00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:25.480 who of the gods? Being that there's endless gods, is 673 00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:27.639 the ultimacy of of. 674 00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:30.320 Well, this is the classic critique of polytheism, right, So 675 00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:33.000 if you read Adgentees by Saint Athanasius, one of the 676 00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:36.400 critiques he makes is this point where he says, I mean, 677 00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:38.760 if the gods are all competing and fighting each other, 678 00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:42.440 there is no universal standard of the good, or of 679 00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:47.159 the true or of morals. It's just conflicting power structures 680 00:37:47.199 --> 00:37:49.360 and whatever is in power. So ultimate is kind of 681 00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:50.440 chaos is what rules? 682 00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:53.679 Yeah? Yeah, And it's kind of like that if morality 683 00:37:54.119 --> 00:38:00.000 from a Christian view, morality is is is bound to God. 684 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:03.159 It's not a set of propositions separate from God like 685 00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:09.639 a list. And if it's the nature of God, that's good. 686 00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:12.400 Somebody is saying Mormons believe in an eternal law that 687 00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:16.360 God is subjected to. Right, then it wouldn't be God, right, 688 00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:18.000 so would be God? 689 00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:19.440 Where does that come from? 690 00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:22.280 Who established that? Exactly? Yeah? 691 00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:25.079 So that's again the problem of nature. What what does 692 00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:27.920 it mean to be the nature of God? Mormonism? They 693 00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:31.280 couldn't possibly tell you the distinction of the nature of God, 694 00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:33.840 being that everyone can be the nature of God, but 695 00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:35.400 they aren't currently the nature of God? 696 00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:35.840 What's that? 697 00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:41.039 What's that transition right between? They're basically true, They're like 698 00:38:41.079 --> 00:38:42.079 Truon's They're like I. 699 00:38:42.639 --> 00:38:44.079 And also where do you get that from? 700 00:38:44.119 --> 00:38:44.599 How do you know? 701 00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:47.480 Because number one, remember the Bible's corrupted, So once again 702 00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:49.519 we have to go to just what Joseph Smith says 703 00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:51.079 is what divine nature is? 704 00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:52.079 That's it right? Right? 705 00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:53.119 Yeah? 706 00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:55.079 And do they hold that he became a god? I 707 00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:57.599 mean obviously they would have to say, like he became. 708 00:38:57.360 --> 00:38:59.000 The That's a good question. I mean it seems like 709 00:38:59.000 --> 00:38:59.760 they would have to say that. 710 00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:00.280 Yeah. 711 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:03.519 Yeah, Presidents sundown are five bucks. Have you ever noticed 712 00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:06.440 that much Protestant sounds like protests? 713 00:39:06.519 --> 00:39:06.719 Yeah? 714 00:39:06.760 --> 00:39:11.360 Yeah, gravy, gravy. Yeah, I bring that up with Protestants 715 00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:14.679 that their identity is against something and is not a 716 00:39:14.679 --> 00:39:17.679 positive claim for It's kind of a it's like an 717 00:39:17.679 --> 00:39:22.639 atheist similar in their position. Enzo nine ninety nine says nothing, 718 00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:24.880 thank you so much, Extangle five bucks. What I mean 719 00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:28.519 is if, oh, yeah, I read that David Murdoch j 720 00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:33.159 the judge b y you alumni just dismissed most of 721 00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:37.320 Hambley's charges with prejudice now ag withholding information. 722 00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:43.320 Right, So the Hamblin case about the SRA satanic stuff. 723 00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:45.840 Was covered up. 724 00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:51.159 Interesting, ben five bucks. J. Andrew always speaks highly of you. 725 00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:53.559 What are your thoughts on his debate style? Is there 726 00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:55.920 anything you disagree with him on that you could that 727 00:39:55.960 --> 00:39:56.960 you would debate? I'm on it. 728 00:39:57.079 --> 00:39:59.239 I think there are people who do these super chats 729 00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:01.519 and they're constantly try to get me to debate Andrew. 730 00:40:02.119 --> 00:40:04.199 I think they're doing it on purpose, because I got 731 00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:06.639 people saying Andrew wants to debate you, and then I 732 00:40:06.679 --> 00:40:07.920 went and talked to Andrew and He's like, no, I 733 00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:10.039 never said that. So I just think this is like 734 00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:11.079 people trying to start. 735 00:40:11.079 --> 00:40:12.920 They try to Yeah, they try to do that a 736 00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:16.159 lot of people do that with me. President sun Down 737 00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:19.440 A four ninety nine, Tristana says Jay is a slanderer. 738 00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:20.880 Tristana, that is true. 739 00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:24.599 And Tristana is also a member of the Haggard family. 740 00:40:24.679 --> 00:40:28.519 And if you remember, the most famous gay meth evangelical 741 00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:29.199 pastor is a. 742 00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:34.119 Shout out to Tristan Haggard. I hope you're doing well. 743 00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:37.719 H brossy five dollars. Thoughts on this trend of women 744 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:41.400 across women across social media feeling the need to tell 745 00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:44.800 stories for the sole cause of embarrassing their husband. It's weird. 746 00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:49.159 It might be just like a a. 747 00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:51.800 Product of the like a Reddit product, like a Reddit. 748 00:40:51.559 --> 00:40:53.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like. 749 00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:56.079 I think Reddit is just total cancer that needs to go. 750 00:40:56.119 --> 00:40:58.920 Oh man, it's really bad. And I tried Jay to 751 00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:02.639 even follow like what orthodox Christian read it is. 752 00:41:02.599 --> 00:41:05.400 The word now that's run by like total like. 753 00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:11.679 Five bucks. Yesterday I confused John Cassal with Jason. I 754 00:41:11.760 --> 00:41:13.920 constantly do it. He corrected me and said, it happens 755 00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:16.119 a few times a week. It's really hard to catch 756 00:41:16.159 --> 00:41:19.440 that for me, dude. Justin Henley gifted one membership and 757 00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:22.679 you guys, uh three more super chats. And I don't 758 00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:25.760 want to take too much of Jay's time just reading chats, 759 00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:29.519 and we'll close it out with some conclusions about Mormonism 760 00:41:29.559 --> 00:41:32.280 and let you all on your way. Being that it's 761 00:41:32.440 --> 00:41:37.320 reaching almost three hours. Uh flane ten dollars. Flain Mez 762 00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:40.920 says a lot of quote Cain worshippers here in Texas 763 00:41:41.119 --> 00:41:44.320 Caine worshippers. Is that the same as Bigfoot? Are you 764 00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:45.440 referring to Bigfoot? 765 00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:47.079 Yeah? 766 00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:48.360 I don't know what that means. 767 00:41:48.639 --> 00:41:52.760 I think I'm a Bigfoot reference bag Milk thirteen ninety nine. 768 00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:56.000 More Jimbob and Jay streams please. Yeah, we we like 769 00:41:56.119 --> 00:41:59.599 to focus on what a good topic once in a while. 770 00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:04.079 We will know that that one of us on dispensationalism 771 00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:07.679 on Twitter. I've shared that in a lot of big 772 00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:14.079 threads and that has like seventy eighty almost eighty thousand. 773 00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:17.239 Now, oh that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, that was a good stream. 774 00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:21.159 That was thorough. I hope I actually wanted to ask 775 00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:24.599 you about that. Is like being that mainstream media isn't 776 00:42:24.639 --> 00:42:28.440 really designed for long form summaries of things like that, 777 00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:31.079 and you really do need some good chunk of time 778 00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:33.760 to get into that. And I was wondering, like if 779 00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:35.920 you were to get on like with like Tucker or 780 00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:40.280 or anyone bigger and you could actually talk about dispensationalism. 781 00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:43.719 My view is that dispensationalism is the way in which 782 00:42:43.719 --> 00:42:47.960 you can talk about Zio issues and without it being 783 00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:52.239 so bagel driven and focused. It's a way around it. 784 00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:56.119 If you will, ironically a lay around it, you can 785 00:42:56.159 --> 00:42:58.039 talk about this. My question to you is, Jay, if 786 00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:00.039 you were to be on a massive channel and you 787 00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:04.000 were to cover dispensationalism in like topics, what's the first 788 00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:07.920 section you would cover? If that was your task on 789 00:43:07.960 --> 00:43:11.199 a big on a big channel, I'd probably. 790 00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:14.320 Just immediately go to the clearest passages like Matthew twenty one, 791 00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:16.360 the Kingdom of God will be taken from you, given 792 00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:19.639 to a nation producing the fruits thereof Roman's eleven Jews 793 00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:23.239 grafted out, gentles, grafted in one covenant, one tree, one 794 00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:27.280 one thing to be grafted into or out of not 795 00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.599 too dual covenant things. I would talk about the history 796 00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:35.599 of the church, essentially never teaching this until Schofield and Derby, 797 00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:37.880 so I would try to get that like the big 798 00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:38.559 points first. 799 00:43:39.519 --> 00:43:42.000 Yeah. I think that's uh, because it seems to be 800 00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:45.159 like it's something that's kind of talked about a little bit, 801 00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:48.360 but I don't think people understand how it like sort 802 00:43:48.360 --> 00:43:52.360 of like, uh, it's just so palpable. 803 00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:54.360 It is, especially in America. I mean all this like 804 00:43:54.480 --> 00:44:00.679 you know the Rapture, you know, what's the Hayes thing 805 00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:03.159 that had the big book series, that had a cage 806 00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:05.719 in the movie Left Behind. You know, all that stuff 807 00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:08.079 is just like propaganda for that stuff. 808 00:44:08.599 --> 00:44:10.679 And it's so easy. I mean that dummy you debated 809 00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:15.000 who thought the Apostles went to college, he's a perfect 810 00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:20.119 example of like what it produces. Whether he's like, it's 811 00:44:20.360 --> 00:44:23.199 just like at this point, you know, people are like, oh, 812 00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:25.320 that guy has to be a paid plant. And I 813 00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:29.400 think we covered this before in a previous stream. Yeah, 814 00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:31.599 you don't need it, Like you can have that. I'm 815 00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:34.159 sure it exists, but do you really need to pay 816 00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:35.840 someone to be a plant? If you could actually just 817 00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:36.880 produce people like that? 818 00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:38.760 There's funny of people that don't know. 819 00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:41.559 You don't need You don't even need it. As much 820 00:44:41.559 --> 00:44:43.760 as I want the plant theory to be true about 821 00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:47.400 a lot of things as a plant, Mormonism to a 822 00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:52.159 cultism to orthodox pipeline is real. What do you think 823 00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:54.480 the most direct pipeline is to Orthodoxy. 824 00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:57.960 J Well, you know, it's funny because I would say, 825 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:02.280 back in twenty eight teen seventeen, it seemed like most 826 00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:04.480 of the converts that we would see and that we 827 00:45:04.480 --> 00:45:07.119 were interacting with on a regular basis in the discord 828 00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:11.199 were Roman Catholics, especially traditional Catholics. Then that kind of 829 00:45:11.239 --> 00:45:13.920 faded out, and then it seemed like it's been more 830 00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:20.039 and more people coming from either the hippie DMT psychosphere 831 00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:25.039 to Orthodoxy or the Protestant world. It seems like the 832 00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:28.239 last few years it's really been way more Protestants can 833 00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:31.280 bring orthodox than Catholics. 834 00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:33.880 Because I feel like Catholics who were going to. 835 00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:37.760 Convert, who were willing and open kind of already have 836 00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:39.719 and you've just got the hangers on who are just 837 00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:43.599 so entrenched and deluded in Papism that they just they're 838 00:45:43.599 --> 00:45:46.760 not going to leave it unless something even crazier happens, 839 00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:50.800 which it will, I'm sure in the near future. But yeah, 840 00:45:50.800 --> 00:45:53.199 it seems like a lot more Protestants and Evangelicals in 841 00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:55.079 the last and hence, you know, you had Redeemed Zoomer 842 00:45:55.159 --> 00:45:59.400 saying my discords are converting. You know, James White's fussing 843 00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:02.000 again yesterday the whole thing yesterday saying that you know 844 00:46:02.599 --> 00:46:04.559 how bad I am. You had Joel Weebun and all 845 00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:07.159 his crew to an entire podcast. Why are people leaving 846 00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:10.559 processes of Orthodoxy? Seems like the you know, hemorrhaging is 847 00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:12.159 happening in the Protestant world now. 848 00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:16.559 Yeah, and it's interesting. I would I would assume it's 849 00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:19.480 mostly men leading the charge who are converting, but if 850 00:46:19.480 --> 00:46:22.280 there are women by their side. I always find it 851 00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:29.639 interesting how interact and experience Orthodoxy. Like the man, the 852 00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:33.599 reason minded, philosophically based is kind of pulled into it. 853 00:46:34.360 --> 00:46:36.880 Even though the philosophical is important, it's not the wholeness 854 00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:39.519 obviously of the faith and the practice. But it definitely 855 00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:41.199 played a huge part for me and a lot of 856 00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:44.119 people know. But it's interesting to see, like the experience 857 00:46:44.199 --> 00:46:49.000 with women where they follow their husbands or fiances into 858 00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:52.760 it and what they gain from it and their reasoning 859 00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:54.920 is a little bit different than than the man. It 860 00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:58.280 would be interesting to see what percent of this new 861 00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:02.400 sort of surge of converts are men and women. Obviously 862 00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:04.480 it's men dominant, but men. 863 00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:06.880 But yeah, like at our live events, there's a lot 864 00:47:06.920 --> 00:47:10.719 of guys with their girlfriend's fiance wives, so you know, 865 00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:12.960 we can see a section of women. They're there. 866 00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:17.639 My audience is ninety percent dudes, ten percent women, So 867 00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:20.000 I think that'll happen. It's like in the case with Dasha, 868 00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:22.800 she was like, well, my husband or my fiance is orthodox. 869 00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:25.039 I'm like just for him. 870 00:47:25.480 --> 00:47:28.039 Yeah, there you go. Yeah, that was actually refreshing to hear. 871 00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:30.960 I didn't know what her ultimate position was. Once she 872 00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:33.039 said that, I was like, oh, okay, this is basically 873 00:47:33.159 --> 00:47:36.320 kind of sordid. There's nothing Jay needs to really do 874 00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:41.800 much more of tb or tybee ten dollars. I love 875 00:47:41.840 --> 00:47:44.000 this team up. Should happen? Should be a weekly thing? 876 00:47:44.119 --> 00:47:46.480 Well maybe, I mean maybe bi weekly. I mean, we 877 00:47:46.519 --> 00:47:48.119 could definitely do more streams. 878 00:47:48.880 --> 00:47:50.679 Yeah, you're one of my favorite people to stream with. 879 00:47:51.519 --> 00:47:54.400 You know, Tristana's retired because he can't handle all the 880 00:47:54.440 --> 00:47:57.920 success that I've had with music and rap, and so 881 00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:01.199 there's an intense amount of jealousy that led him to retire. 882 00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:03.320 So you know, I'm always open for more streams. 883 00:48:03.599 --> 00:48:07.519 Yeah, totally, just uh President sundown or another five bucks? 884 00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:11.360 Why is Mormonism so big? With Polly's all the tongans 885 00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:14.800 and samoans, I played football with were Mormons? Well interesting, 886 00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:16.920 I went to Hawaiian and it was it was loaded 887 00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:17.800 with Mormons too. 888 00:48:18.280 --> 00:48:20.599 Really, so I guess they have like a they've set 889 00:48:20.679 --> 00:48:22.760 up a lot of ye stuff down there. 890 00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:26.159 Yep, they took it. Saw even some in the elevator. 891 00:48:26.239 --> 00:48:30.239 I was like, oh, you guys are here doing the thing. Huh. 892 00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:33.719 They're like, let's go for the Well, well, you said 893 00:48:33.719 --> 00:48:38.039 it before, not to not to disparage against against Hawaiian 894 00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:40.400 people or Polynesians or whatever it is, like you said, 895 00:48:40.519 --> 00:48:44.599 they Mormonism does rely on sort of maybe the people 896 00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:47.119 who don't who aren't have full who don't have full 897 00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:50.280 access to everything. Let's say, so an island would be 898 00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:52.719 historically a perfect example of isla. 899 00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:59.079 Those witnesses and Mormons all can prey upon less educated people's. 900 00:48:59.559 --> 00:49:04.960 Yeah, yeah, it's a it's key testicular tactics. Two dollars. 901 00:49:05.000 --> 00:49:07.639 I lived in Utah. Their favorite soda is mountain dew, 902 00:49:08.119 --> 00:49:12.760 that caffeine lade. It might not he does that. 903 00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:14.360 It's spelling point. 904 00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:17.559 It doesn't spray or is it sprite that doesn't. 905 00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:22.199 Spe doesn't I think Jerome. 906 00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:25.840 Six ninety nine. The Mormons have much capital. They might 907 00:49:26.000 --> 00:49:30.239 be the one secretly pulling all the strings illuminate confirm. Well, 908 00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:32.519 if there's anyone who's gonna know or expose that, it's 909 00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:36.000 gonna be Jay. So you know, pray for him because 910 00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:39.320 if if they're as powerful as we we kind of 911 00:49:39.320 --> 00:49:42.679 fantasize that they are, you know, Jay's is in danger basically, 912 00:49:42.800 --> 00:49:47.039 so Seth Garrett twenty bucks, God bless, I gotta go 913 00:49:47.079 --> 00:49:49.760 see you later. Thank you so much, Marcus Antonio, five 914 00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:53.119 gifted memberships, Ben five bucks. Here was a super chat 915 00:49:53.159 --> 00:49:56.400 from Zimmerman and Jessica. Whoever donate ask to thank you 916 00:49:56.440 --> 00:50:01.079 so much for that spirit on fifteen bucks nothing Ben 917 00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:05.079 four nine, we won, thank you for that. Anglo Orthodoxy 918 00:50:05.119 --> 00:50:08.360 five bucks. Mormons don't have a deity as such. They 919 00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:14.239 have individuals parentheses gods. Yeah, yeah, they just have a 920 00:50:14.239 --> 00:50:17.719 bunch of particular people hanging out of their table and 921 00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:20.800 they're like, well, who's gonna win, let's vote, So voting 922 00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:23.760 voting gods is wild. A bunch of voting gods with 923 00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:28.159 their hands raised, so weird. The cold quest That means 924 00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:31.880 that they don't have shared wills, not that that's the 925 00:50:31.880 --> 00:50:35.320 biggest problem, but not that you need even that. But 926 00:50:35.800 --> 00:50:38.639 that's just another thing there, cold quest, five bucks, what's 927 00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:42.360 your opinions on someone like Wes Huff who's smart, still 928 00:50:42.400 --> 00:50:45.079 falling for the dispensationalism hoax? Would love to see him 929 00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:45.599 debate it. 930 00:50:46.360 --> 00:50:47.119 I mean we tried. 931 00:50:47.239 --> 00:50:49.599 I actually reached out to one of his buddies. 932 00:50:50.239 --> 00:50:53.760 He has a buddy who's becoming Orthodox, and that guy 933 00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:56.920 was trying to get west up to do the tencast 934 00:50:56.960 --> 00:51:01.519 debate with me Michael Knowles, Tim Gordon, and west Hoff, 935 00:51:02.519 --> 00:51:05.320 and west Hoff said no, Michael Knowles doesn't want to 936 00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:07.880 do it obviously, So man. 937 00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:08.920 That would have been a blast. 938 00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:10.719 I know, I would like the best debate if we 939 00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:11.960 got those, all three of those. 940 00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:15.320 Maybe that's too high tier. I've I've been suggesting recently 941 00:51:15.400 --> 00:51:18.840 that maybe we should get Nathan Rager up with you. 942 00:51:19.880 --> 00:51:22.480 But it's but you could just as well be Randy 943 00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:25.880 Balls and debate Nathan Rager. Have you you've seen Nathan 944 00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:30.440 Rager now that one of your characters. No, No, I wish, 945 00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:34.000 I wish. I actually want to quit satire because I 946 00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:37.280 didn't even come up with this here. I'm sure I'm 947 00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:39.920 sure you've seen this Jay now that once you see 948 00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:44.519 the person's face, where is it? Dude, Nathan Is. That 949 00:51:44.639 --> 00:51:50.519 is Nathan Rager. He actually stands outside of an orthodox. 950 00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:52.719 All that Baptist guy with. 951 00:51:54.880 --> 00:51:58.079 Yeah and yeah and the big like pandle Mar. Yeah, 952 00:51:58.079 --> 00:51:59.920 I knew there's no way you didn't know who that. 953 00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:02.679 Yeah, we covered him on the Megachurch stream, you know. 954 00:52:03.159 --> 00:52:05.360 Yeah, I figured ten bucks, no doubt. There are some 955 00:52:05.719 --> 00:52:08.199 figs trying to stir up drama between you guys. If 956 00:52:08.239 --> 00:52:11.400 there's an issue, it goes without saying, you handle it privately. Yeah, 957 00:52:11.400 --> 00:52:14.079 you always go private first. If you ever hear someone's 958 00:52:14.119 --> 00:52:16.199 doing something saying something, you just reach out and go, 959 00:52:16.280 --> 00:52:20.760 hey whatever. Joey Valencia two dollars, Jay thoughts on The 960 00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:22.800 Chosen Show. I actually watch that. 961 00:52:23.480 --> 00:52:26.719 I haven't watched it. 962 00:52:25.480 --> 00:52:28.079 SoRs five bucks. Jay, you have any musical advice for 963 00:52:28.159 --> 00:52:30.519 Jim Bobby LARPs as a musician, but he could obviously 964 00:52:30.559 --> 00:52:33.920 use the help from a superior artist. Yeah, I mean. 965 00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:35.840 If you want to get zorched and gifted, he can. 966 00:52:36.079 --> 00:52:38.519 You can go watch my Mystery Science Theater rich Tract 967 00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:40.800 stream that we just did a couple of nights ago. 968 00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:44.679 Max Night, Ultra Spy. I piggyback to your twenty. 969 00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:48.559 K oh Yeah, yeah, I sent people celebrating. 970 00:52:48.000 --> 00:52:51.079 My Twitter almost one k so I'm still I'm still 971 00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:55.280 not there, but uh no, I think Jim Bob's gonna 972 00:52:55.280 --> 00:52:58.360 also probably just get jealous like Tristan and he's going 973 00:52:58.360 --> 00:53:01.400 to retire because I'm pretty much the hottest rapper on 974 00:53:01.440 --> 00:53:01.719 the scene. 975 00:53:01.760 --> 00:53:03.239 I'm about to open up for rip Rafts. 976 00:53:03.280 --> 00:53:07.800 So yeah, that's awesome. Speaking of events, that looked really good. 977 00:53:07.880 --> 00:53:10.960 You just retweeted Sam Hides doing a boomer thing. 978 00:53:11.440 --> 00:53:14.199 Yeah. Our next episode is a boomers that was fun 979 00:53:14.199 --> 00:53:16.679 to write about. Hopefully he'll use some of my jokes. 980 00:53:17.239 --> 00:53:18.079 That's hilarious. 981 00:53:18.280 --> 00:53:22.599 Yeah, So I think they're filming that in a couple 982 00:53:22.599 --> 00:53:23.199 of days. 983 00:53:23.480 --> 00:53:27.679 So remember for thirty one months. Well, Emmanuel says, is 984 00:53:27.679 --> 00:53:31.000 this the same short break quote from Superchats after the animation, 985 00:53:31.119 --> 00:53:33.639 not complaining it's great, Well, this was a short break, 986 00:53:33.639 --> 00:53:36.320 But it turns out you guys reached both goals. For 987 00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:40.000 the sake of my time in Jay's and the value 988 00:53:39.719 --> 00:53:42.639 we we just gave you, thank you so much celebration 989 00:53:42.800 --> 00:53:47.360 in order thank you. I really appreciate that, and I 990 00:53:47.440 --> 00:53:51.400 just I knew that to honor the Superchats you have 991 00:53:51.440 --> 00:53:53.199 to read them. That's why you guys send them. So 992 00:53:53.440 --> 00:53:56.800 if it takes time, it takes time, and I think 993 00:53:56.840 --> 00:53:58.880 this might be the last one abe nine nine nine 994 00:53:58.840 --> 00:54:01.280 and found a Jim Bob video suggested video through JA. 995 00:54:01.400 --> 00:54:05.199 Thank you both. Currently EO Catechumen to be received at Pasca. 996 00:54:05.199 --> 00:54:06.280 Thank you so much for that. 997 00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:08.639 More fake converts more fake. 998 00:54:09.920 --> 00:54:16.159 I didn't know, Jay, We're already at three, but it 999 00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:17.920 is stream yard, so I don't know. If you want 1000 00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:21.159 to take two calls one, it doesn't matter to me. 1001 00:54:21.199 --> 00:54:24.880 You could sind whatever you're doing, whatever, okay, if there's 1002 00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:29.159 anyone to call in again, oppositional first. I don't want 1003 00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:32.199 people just hanging out, you know, and this isn't an 1004 00:54:32.280 --> 00:54:34.480 a bar. I would happily have a beer with you, 1005 00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:37.639 but oppositional first. Please, I'm gonna put it in the chat. 1006 00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:39.719 If we can get one or two, great, If not, 1007 00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:41.599 we'll close out the show. 1008 00:54:41.880 --> 00:54:43.400 Maybe you can even get a Mormon in here. 1009 00:54:43.719 --> 00:54:45.800 I could get a Mormon, any Mormons, I mean, first 1010 00:54:45.800 --> 00:54:47.719 and foremost, get a Mormon in here. I would love it. 1011 00:54:48.079 --> 00:54:51.400 But if there's anything, you know, Jay's a very attackable person. 1012 00:54:51.639 --> 00:54:53.840 He's an open target for everyone, and so he's used 1013 00:54:53.840 --> 00:54:58.039 to it anyway, so so you might as well take 1014 00:54:58.079 --> 00:55:00.480 the take him up on it. There's the chat again. 1015 00:55:00.519 --> 00:55:02.920 No agreement. I don't care about your agreement. Love you, 1016 00:55:03.039 --> 00:55:05.400 but I just don't. We don't want to sit around 1017 00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:12.199 and agree with you. Anybody. There's it's it's in the chat. Okay, 1018 00:55:13.000 --> 00:55:17.280 there there's the stream yard link. Do it if you dare. 1019 00:55:18.400 --> 00:55:25.480 I'll just be here watching, just be here watching nothing anybody. 1020 00:55:26.800 --> 00:55:28.480 And we got to turn on the background music. 1021 00:55:28.639 --> 00:55:31.840 You had a Mormon dude in your show yesterday when 1022 00:55:31.880 --> 00:55:34.119 he in the chat, somebody Mormon yapping it up. 1023 00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:37.119 Yeah, there's a couple. I just can't tell if their 1024 00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:40.760 trolls or not because these wild names, you know, like 1025 00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:46.320 full bring them young, full sentences. I don't. I'm so 1026 00:55:46.480 --> 00:55:49.639 naive to I believe everyone. It's just the worst thing. 1027 00:55:49.760 --> 00:55:52.400 I'm just like, oh, do you want to talk about it? There? 1028 00:55:52.760 --> 00:55:54.920 And my own chat's like, dude, that's a troll. 1029 00:55:55.039 --> 00:55:55.199 Do you. 1030 00:55:58.719 --> 00:56:07.039 Anybody nothing? I know, he's scary, he's scary. Face your fears. 1031 00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:12.159 Look he's Look, he's at the tail end of a stream. 1032 00:56:12.159 --> 00:56:14.960 He's tired. This is where you go for it. Look 1033 00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:15.280 at him. 1034 00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:20.239 I'm wilted. Attacked me while I'm wilted. 1035 00:56:20.719 --> 00:56:24.679 He's only had three double double espressos. How's your espresso machine? 1036 00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:26.440 By the by the way, Jay, do you have a 1037 00:56:26.480 --> 00:56:28.159 good one that makes some real good grema? 1038 00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:32.360 Or I don't do dairy too well, so I don't 1039 00:56:32.480 --> 00:56:35.119 you usually do the cream even though I really like it? 1040 00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:37.199 And uh yeah, I actually had to get a nice 1041 00:56:37.199 --> 00:56:39.440 one because I kept buying kind of like mid tier 1042 00:56:39.519 --> 00:56:42.039 ones that kept breaking after like a year, so we 1043 00:56:42.559 --> 00:56:43.480 only got a nice one. 1044 00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:45.199 Did you get a Rebel? 1045 00:56:46.360 --> 00:56:47.920 I don't remember what brand it is, but it was 1046 00:56:47.960 --> 00:56:50.039 about four hundred dollars. Five hundred dollars. 1047 00:56:51.760 --> 00:56:55.239 Well that's good. Yeah, you basically that's your low. Five 1048 00:56:55.320 --> 00:56:57.440 hundred or more is where you have to go with 1049 00:56:57.519 --> 00:57:02.519 the espresso machines. Am low looks up. You keep coming 1050 00:57:02.519 --> 00:57:05.880 on and breaking off. Get into a good place if 1051 00:57:05.920 --> 00:57:06.519 you're gonna call in. 1052 00:57:06.840 --> 00:57:07.159 Please? 1053 00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:11.800 Who's meaner? Jay, Jim, Bob or Andrew? I mean, I 1054 00:57:11.840 --> 00:57:15.400 think Jay, you can't like steal the meanness meme from Jay. 1055 00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:20.239 I think Andrew's more maniacal than either of us. 1056 00:57:21.639 --> 00:57:25.360 But you and I are similar in that we will 1057 00:57:26.039 --> 00:57:31.960 impersonate and you know, kind of make into cartoon characters 1058 00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:35.199 people that are big, you know, disagree or. 1059 00:57:35.239 --> 00:57:38.000 Yeah, I'm like more of a I'm kind of a bully. 1060 00:57:38.079 --> 00:57:40.920 I like mock. I'm trying to I'm trying to figure 1061 00:57:40.920 --> 00:57:45.280 out how much mockery is justified in an exchange and 1062 00:57:45.320 --> 00:57:49.159 how much is just going over the line and just 1063 00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:52.000 just you know, humiliating for the sake of humiliation. I'm 1064 00:57:52.039 --> 00:57:59.239 dealing with that internally. I think Jay and Andrew mock 1065 00:57:59.400 --> 00:58:03.000 less than me. I'm more of a direct mocker. And 1066 00:58:03.199 --> 00:58:09.280 uh so a pair of Sith lords. Yeah, they're saying 1067 00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:11.920 Jay and Andrew are currently a pair of Sith lords 1068 00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:17.239 and they're training Jimbob just to succeed them. That's funny. Yeah, 1069 00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:19.280 I'll fight yeah, yeah, none of them all. I will 1070 00:58:19.320 --> 00:58:23.159 say that Jay Nor j Or Andrew actually ask people 1071 00:58:23.239 --> 00:58:26.480 to fight them directly, like I do. Not that that's 1072 00:58:26.519 --> 00:58:28.760 an advantage that might be as I've. 1073 00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:32.079 Tried to set up two or three fights boxing matches. 1074 00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:37.480 Have you boxed before? I mean not professionally, white shoulders, 1075 00:58:37.519 --> 00:58:38.639 I mean you could, you could. 1076 00:58:38.679 --> 00:58:41.119 Not trained, but I've like messed around. 1077 00:58:42.119 --> 00:58:47.639 Yeah, Hey rock E, Hey, what's that? How you doing 1078 00:58:47.880 --> 00:58:51.880 your oppositional Hm? No, are you well? 1079 00:58:51.920 --> 00:58:53.039 I'm oppositional on. 1080 00:58:54.760 --> 00:58:58.719 I'm not orthodox, Okay, do you wanna do you wanna? 1081 00:58:59.360 --> 00:58:59.920 You got something? 1082 00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:00.599 J or. 1083 00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:05.880 Well, I made the comment that I think we're in 1084 00:59:05.920 --> 00:59:11.840 Satan's Little season, and I I got like twenty scriptures 1085 00:59:11.880 --> 00:59:15.920 that you know. Look at Matthew's twenty four thirty four, 1086 00:59:16.039 --> 00:59:19.840 Jesus says this generation shall not pass till all these 1087 00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:20.440 things happen. 1088 00:59:22.199 --> 00:59:24.719 Yeah, but that generation is the people standing in front 1089 00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:28.199 of him. And so what he's talking about happens in 1090 00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:30.119 seventy eighty when the temple's destroyed. 1091 00:59:30.119 --> 00:59:31.840 That's why if you read Luke twenty one. 1092 00:59:32.519 --> 00:59:36.119 Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So do you believe that 1093 00:59:36.519 --> 00:59:39.119 there should be a third temple that needs to be destroyed? 1094 00:59:42.119 --> 00:59:45.880 What I'm asking, are you a Zionist? No? 1095 00:59:46.079 --> 00:59:48.000 First relate to this. 1096 00:59:49.360 --> 00:59:52.599 No, I'm talking about the Satan's Little season. 1097 00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:54.559 Where I don't know what you think. 1098 00:59:54.599 --> 00:59:58.519 That is what I think. What is Satan's little season? 1099 00:59:58.880 --> 01:00:01.159 Yeah, I don't know what you think that means. 1100 01:00:02.760 --> 01:00:07.280 Revelations twenty seven through eight talks about Satan's Little season 1101 01:00:08.079 --> 01:00:15.159 being after the Millennial reign. And so if do you 1102 01:00:15.159 --> 01:00:17.079 you believe the millennial reign is future? 1103 01:00:17.719 --> 01:00:19.199 No, it's now. It's the church. 1104 01:00:19.360 --> 01:00:22.800 The Church reigns with Christ because when he ascended, it's 1105 01:00:22.840 --> 01:00:25.119 fulfilled that he sat at the right hand of the 1106 01:00:25.119 --> 01:00:27.800 Father and began his reign. So every New Testament reference 1107 01:00:27.840 --> 01:00:30.920 to Psalm one ten is a reference to the ascension, 1108 01:00:31.039 --> 01:00:33.760 which is a past reality. 1109 01:00:33.800 --> 01:00:36.519 So you're millennialist. 1110 01:00:38.039 --> 01:00:42.320 Ten towards post millennism. But I'm speaking of partial preterism. 1111 01:00:42.519 --> 01:00:46.519 Partial Okay, that's good. Well, I kind of believe that 1112 01:00:46.559 --> 01:00:50.920 he came physically reigned for a thousand years and history 1113 01:00:50.960 --> 01:00:57.880 has been we've been lied to in their hiding Christ. Yeah, 1114 01:00:57.960 --> 01:00:59.800 physically on earth, he was here. 1115 01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:00.800 It's crazy, dude. 1116 01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:02.880 Sorry, Wait, what are they hiding though? 1117 01:01:04.280 --> 01:01:07.519 Did he did? He came? And that the tribulation happened, 1118 01:01:07.559 --> 01:01:11.000 and that the Millennial reign is over. There's there's evidence 1119 01:01:11.039 --> 01:01:14.360 that they added seven hundred years to history. Who's they, 1120 01:01:18.079 --> 01:01:21.280 I don't know who you would call him? The Satanists 1121 01:01:21.280 --> 01:01:23.559 that you know, the people that rule the world. Now 1122 01:01:23.679 --> 01:01:28.639 you know, you know seventeen seven Okay, if you if 1123 01:01:28.679 --> 01:01:31.599 the millennial reign, if the tribulation was over in seventy 1124 01:01:31.639 --> 01:01:34.440 six a d. And then you add one thousand years 1125 01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:38.320 at the one thousand and seventy six AD, and there's 1126 01:01:38.360 --> 01:01:41.679 evidence that they added seven hundred years to history, so 1127 01:01:41.719 --> 01:01:48.320 that would be seventies seventeen seventy six AD, you know, 1128 01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:51.519 and then you have the they re established Rome, the 1129 01:01:51.639 --> 01:01:55.440 Roman you know they went against you know, the French Revolution, 1130 01:01:55.519 --> 01:01:56.480 the French Revolution. 1131 01:02:04.320 --> 01:02:04.880 Can you hear that? 1132 01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:05.159 Check? 1133 01:02:08.920 --> 01:02:09.119 Check? 1134 01:02:11.119 --> 01:02:11.280 Is that? 1135 01:02:11.360 --> 01:02:11.920 Don't hunt me? 1136 01:02:13.119 --> 01:02:14.559 Yeah? I like it. 1137 01:02:21.159 --> 01:02:23.760 Anyone else. I saw someone else keep dropping off in 1138 01:02:23.840 --> 01:02:27.719 there that was gonna loop, so you gotta get him out. 1139 01:02:27.760 --> 01:02:30.519 I'm learning. I'm learning. I learned from Jay, I learned 1140 01:02:30.559 --> 01:02:33.280 from some other people. Once there's a once you can 1141 01:02:33.320 --> 01:02:36.199 sense the loop, you gotta just you gotta get out 1142 01:02:36.199 --> 01:02:40.639 of there. Thanks for jumping on, Rocky though, but that's 1143 01:02:40.679 --> 01:02:47.719 gonna go nowhere. Seventeen seventy six. Can you imagine Ben 1144 01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:50.119 Shapiro became one of those guys. He was just like 1145 01:02:50.239 --> 01:02:56.840 I changed my health. Yeah, seventeen king now excellent. 1146 01:02:58.639 --> 01:03:03.599 Thanks trained for a thousand years and hiding it from us. 1147 01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:08.119 You're hiding it from us. How do you know they 1148 01:03:08.119 --> 01:03:11.320 added years to history? Well, because they're there, Hell, wiki 1149 01:03:11.480 --> 01:03:12.079 ten dollars. 1150 01:03:12.320 --> 01:03:15.320 I like that. That's that Mormon level of argumentation, right like, 1151 01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:16.280 because it's not there. 1152 01:03:16.719 --> 01:03:22.239 I mean, yeah, uh, Rocky Shepherd, every one I've seen 1153 01:03:22.320 --> 01:03:24.320 him on a couple of things. You know, it seems 1154 01:03:24.360 --> 01:03:27.519 like a he's he's a nice guy, he's well behaved. 1155 01:03:27.559 --> 01:03:30.800 But I mean it's like the priest of LDS. This 1156 01:03:30.880 --> 01:03:40.719 has to be a troll. Troll, yes, welcome to okay, 1157 01:03:41.159 --> 01:03:42.679 anyone we got one that. 1158 01:03:45.039 --> 01:03:45.320 Was it? 1159 01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:51.559 That was very or camel Yeah, nothing. 1160 01:03:55.639 --> 01:03:58.280 Mormons like Mormons. I thought Mormons love to come and debate. 1161 01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:01.440 Now they don't. They never click the link. That's the thing. 1162 01:04:01.639 --> 01:04:04.159 The ones I got when I post the link, they 1163 01:04:04.239 --> 01:04:06.760 never click it. And they say, you're afraid of Mormon, 1164 01:04:06.920 --> 01:04:09.000 You're afraid of the LDS church, which I think they're 1165 01:04:09.039 --> 01:04:15.679 just it's probably like my trolls, right fortunately, so well, 1166 01:04:15.719 --> 01:04:17.840 I mean, look, he's got a. 1167 01:04:17.760 --> 01:04:22.679 Book here, it's only five dollars. 1168 01:04:22.920 --> 01:04:25.719 Who wrote that? 1169 01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:29.199 It's written by Jesus kept his word, it's anonymous. 1170 01:04:30.039 --> 01:04:31.400 Oh nobody knows who wrote it. 1171 01:04:31.559 --> 01:04:34.079 I know, I know Jay likes to read books. Maybe 1172 01:04:34.079 --> 01:04:36.920 he should, I don't know. 1173 01:04:36.960 --> 01:04:39.920 I've already questioning the typeface that they chosen, the placement 1174 01:04:40.039 --> 01:04:44.239 of everything. I'm an aesthetic aesthetic snob, so I'm really 1175 01:04:44.599 --> 01:04:46.760 I'm already out with that book. I mean, not as 1176 01:04:46.920 --> 01:04:51.519 rough one sideways sideways. 1177 01:04:50.679 --> 01:04:52.639 It's only five bucks. It's a short read. 1178 01:04:52.880 --> 01:04:54.679 Look at that book? Is that a coloring book? 1179 01:04:55.639 --> 01:04:59.719 Look at it's got. 1180 01:04:59.519 --> 01:05:02.519 Okay, okay, all right, if there's no one else serious 1181 01:05:02.719 --> 01:05:06.480 want to call in and and go after Jay and 1182 01:05:06.519 --> 01:05:10.880 his meanness, We'll give you like one more minute or so. 1183 01:05:10.960 --> 01:05:12.800 It's a huge opportunity. I mean, you're getting him when 1184 01:05:12.800 --> 01:05:15.039 he's tired. He doesn't have coffee. 1185 01:05:16.440 --> 01:05:19.000 I need to I need to be put in my place. 1186 01:05:19.639 --> 01:05:23.760 Yeah, come on, what other? Come on? This is insane. 1187 01:05:24.920 --> 01:05:26.440 I thought they'd be all over you, dude. 1188 01:05:27.599 --> 01:05:30.000 I thought you would legit get like Mormons in the chat, 1189 01:05:30.039 --> 01:05:31.400 spamming and yapping and. 1190 01:05:31.559 --> 01:05:35.719 Yeah yeah, the small portion of my chat, you know, 1191 01:05:36.199 --> 01:05:40.599 make some quick remarks about you during any stream, just 1192 01:05:40.679 --> 01:05:42.920 like totally random. And I'm like, well, if he ever 1193 01:05:43.000 --> 01:05:45.400 jumps on, you can just call in. It's fine, don't 1194 01:05:45.400 --> 01:05:45.920 worry about it. 1195 01:05:45.960 --> 01:05:46.639 Yeah yeah right. 1196 01:05:46.679 --> 01:05:48.480 And then now that I'm here, none of them want 1197 01:05:48.519 --> 01:05:48.880 to hop on. 1198 01:05:50.679 --> 01:05:53.280 I mean he lives for Robert. Okay, cool, here we go, 1199 01:05:53.639 --> 01:06:01.920 Hello Robert, justin water, justin water. See that's it. That's 1200 01:06:01.960 --> 01:06:04.199 all we get. You get way better people. 1201 01:06:04.199 --> 01:06:05.199 And you know who that is? 1202 01:06:05.840 --> 01:06:07.880 No, I don't know who that is. I don't know 1203 01:06:07.880 --> 01:06:10.480 who that is. I gotta watch it too because some 1204 01:06:10.519 --> 01:06:16.480 people troll me and they try to try c s. Yeah, 1205 01:06:16.840 --> 01:06:19.599 JB and J unstoppable force over here all crickets from 1206 01:06:19.599 --> 01:06:22.760 the Mormons. Where did they all go? I have to 1207 01:06:22.800 --> 01:06:25.840 rely on fake calls from my own creative audience. This 1208 01:06:26.000 --> 01:06:30.119 is just sad. This is sad. 1209 01:06:31.800 --> 01:06:34.320 Well, I think I'm probably gonna have to head out 1210 01:06:34.400 --> 01:06:38.480 because Jamie, are about to go do something. But really 1211 01:06:38.519 --> 01:06:44.119 appreciate the Mormon stream if you want to summarize, or 1212 01:06:44.119 --> 01:06:45.199 maybe I'm not trying. 1213 01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:45.320 To be right. 1214 01:06:46.199 --> 01:06:49.000 Yeah, yeah, I think we got to go to pretty soon. Yeah, 1215 01:06:49.079 --> 01:06:49.639 no problem. 1216 01:06:49.679 --> 01:06:49.920 Well. 1217 01:06:50.039 --> 01:06:53.920 In summary, thanks for coming on expanding on the knowledge 1218 01:06:53.920 --> 01:06:56.199 you have of Mormonism. Glad we covered some of the 1219 01:06:56.239 --> 01:06:59.880 funny stuff. I'm in the process of making a an animation. 1220 01:07:00.159 --> 01:07:01.599 I made all the art for it, so I just 1221 01:07:01.639 --> 01:07:05.519 have to voice it. And uh, when I post that, 1222 01:07:05.880 --> 01:07:08.599 maybe you can help share it share it around. Jay 1223 01:07:09.719 --> 01:07:15.719 with that said, Mormonism is in fact, uh whackier surprisingly 1224 01:07:15.800 --> 01:07:20.960 then I think than Islam is an Islam. Posh was saying, no, no, no, 1225 01:07:21.719 --> 01:07:24.280 look further into it. He said, it gets more ridiculous 1226 01:07:24.280 --> 01:07:25.599 than there's someths. 1227 01:07:25.639 --> 01:07:28.599 But I just think that this whole space story with 1228 01:07:28.719 --> 01:07:33.519 Collob and with Jesus and Lucifer being brothers and you 1229 01:07:33.559 --> 01:07:35.360 know what I mean, even that's I think that's stuff 1230 01:07:35.400 --> 01:07:37.800 just Trump's you know, the god the Father was a 1231 01:07:37.840 --> 01:07:40.480 man who became a god who impregnates Mary. I mean 1232 01:07:40.880 --> 01:07:44.079 that stuff just prompts the even the Mormon, I mean 1233 01:07:44.079 --> 01:07:45.280 the Muslim Hadith stuff. 1234 01:07:45.880 --> 01:07:52.360 Yeah, yeah, it's just wild. So any who with that said, uh, 1235 01:07:52.679 --> 01:07:55.400 go follow Jay at Jay Dyer. Is there anything else 1236 01:07:55.440 --> 01:07:58.599 you got coming up? That's that's like a big any news, 1237 01:07:58.639 --> 01:07:59.639 like big news for you. 1238 01:07:59.679 --> 01:08:02.679 Or wells they're callably with three is complete, and I've 1239 01:08:02.679 --> 01:08:05.719 got back a couple of the edits on the second 1240 01:08:05.840 --> 01:08:08.159 edited version from the publisher. It's looking good. I think 1241 01:08:08.159 --> 01:08:10.079 it's gonna be a lot of fun, a lot of movies, 1242 01:08:10.880 --> 01:08:13.239 right under one hundred movies, almost one hundred in this 1243 01:08:13.320 --> 01:08:17.880 one versus the previous ones covering less movies and more writing. 1244 01:08:17.920 --> 01:08:21.359 This one is more movies, so look for that in 1245 01:08:21.399 --> 01:08:24.399 the near future. The mega church streams that we did 1246 01:08:24.479 --> 01:08:26.600 were a lot of fun this week, so people can 1247 01:08:26.680 --> 01:08:30.479 go check those out on my channel and uh, just yeah, 1248 01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:32.800 turning out stupid little tiktoks and. 1249 01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:38.359 Having fun and then maybe a debate on on whatever. 1250 01:08:38.479 --> 01:08:39.079 It would be fun. 1251 01:08:39.439 --> 01:08:41.239 Oh I don't yeah, if we can get her to 1252 01:08:41.840 --> 01:08:45.840 do it. I don't know. Originally she was gonna come 1253 01:08:45.880 --> 01:08:49.359 on the channel originally, and then it was like, oh, no, 1254 01:08:49.520 --> 01:08:52.840 I can't, but maybe on whatever. 1255 01:08:53.920 --> 01:08:58.920 Yeah, and you would debate feminism against her because she. 1256 01:08:59.600 --> 01:09:00.439 Made something different. 1257 01:09:00.439 --> 01:09:01.840 I told her I would debate her all because she 1258 01:09:01.840 --> 01:09:04.000 claims to be quote a radical Protestant whatever. 1259 01:09:04.159 --> 01:09:05.000 Yeah, that's the thing. 1260 01:09:05.079 --> 01:09:06.720 Yeah. I was like, we can debate that too, and 1261 01:09:06.720 --> 01:09:09.640 she's like I wanted to so well. 1262 01:09:09.479 --> 01:09:11.239 That you could tie kind of tie them in because 1263 01:09:11.279 --> 01:09:14.880 she tries to appeal to the to her weird Christian view. 1264 01:09:16.000 --> 01:09:19.159 But then I asked her flat out as Christianity patriarchy. 1265 01:09:19.319 --> 01:09:21.000 She said yes. So it's like, do you want a 1266 01:09:21.039 --> 01:09:23.680 Christian nation that like, I mean in a sense that like, 1267 01:09:24.039 --> 01:09:26.800 do you want the structure of society to reflect the 1268 01:09:26.920 --> 01:09:31.279 church in this case if it's a patriarchy? And no, no, 1269 01:09:31.399 --> 01:09:35.520 I mean just like, okay, so what do you want? 1270 01:09:36.880 --> 01:09:39.600 I want liberty, liberty above all. What about you and 1271 01:09:39.640 --> 01:09:43.760 Michael Malice? I wonder if you guys would hit it 1272 01:09:43.800 --> 01:09:44.640 off with a debate. 1273 01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:50.119 Oh, I know, yet he had hide on so maybe yeah. 1274 01:09:49.880 --> 01:09:52.479 He said maybe to uh he, I've been engaged with 1275 01:09:52.520 --> 01:09:55.520 him a couple of times. I put him in a 1276 01:09:55.560 --> 01:09:59.159 meme that got his attention where he's like dies. In 1277 01:09:59.199 --> 01:10:01.960 the meme, he goes that, yeah. 1278 01:10:02.119 --> 01:10:04.079 I reached out to Tripoli and I couldn't get Tripley 1279 01:10:04.159 --> 01:10:05.279 to do anything, So I don't know. 1280 01:10:05.439 --> 01:10:07.880 Well, they're there. You know, the whole comedy scene is 1281 01:10:07.920 --> 01:10:10.560 like is a it's kind of on fire as far 1282 01:10:10.600 --> 01:10:13.439 as like energy and movement right now, so I'm sure 1283 01:10:13.479 --> 01:10:15.880 they're just like riding that wave. It's hard to get 1284 01:10:15.880 --> 01:10:19.920 these people. Even I asked Ben Benkis, he was interested, 1285 01:10:19.960 --> 01:10:22.399 but it's it's really hard to get these people to commit, 1286 01:10:22.479 --> 01:10:28.079 and probably rightfully so, being that they're super busy. Anyway, Well, 1287 01:10:28.279 --> 01:10:31.560 thanks so much, Jay, God bless you and yours and 1288 01:10:31.560 --> 01:10:34.720 have fun on your uh your event or your date 1289 01:10:34.800 --> 01:10:36.880 or whatever. And uh, I'll talk to you soon on 1290 01:10:36.960 --> 01:10:39.880 any future topics you guys want me and Jay to 1291 01:10:40.079 --> 01:10:43.039 collaborate on. Throw them our way. They could be really ridiculous. 1292 01:10:43.079 --> 01:10:46.479 By the way, we we have no concern of what 1293 01:10:46.560 --> 01:10:49.079 the topic is. We'll we'll cover it. Together and have 1294 01:10:48.840 --> 01:10:51.840 a have a blast. Okay. With that said, thanks Jay 1295 01:10:52.159 --> 01:10:52.800 head Off and. 1296 01:10:52.840 --> 01:10:54.479 Uh absolutely man, thanks for having me is a great 1297 01:10:54.560 --> 01:10:57.119 chat and always fun covering colts A love that. 1298 01:10:57.640 --> 01:11:01.439 Yeah, no problem, dude, thanks a lot. There you go. 1299 01:11:02.279 --> 01:11:06.159 I'll give Rocky. I'll give him the floor to to 1300 01:11:06.520 --> 01:11:12.560 uh educate us. Rocky, go ahead, Well what do. 1301 01:11:12.520 --> 01:11:14.199 You think of the statue of Liberty? What do you 1302 01:11:14.199 --> 01:11:15.640 think that represents? 1303 01:11:16.079 --> 01:11:16.560 A troon? 1304 01:11:18.399 --> 01:11:22.760 M that's the light bearer? The light bearer, I. 1305 01:11:22.720 --> 01:11:25.680 Don't know, is this skim. I don't put too much to. 1306 01:11:26.079 --> 01:11:28.560 The Statue of liberty or the light bearer. 1307 01:11:30.000 --> 01:11:33.000 I mean, I mean maybe it's. 1308 01:11:32.840 --> 01:11:35.359 Got a chain that's broken around its ankle. 1309 01:11:36.199 --> 01:11:39.479 Uh huh wait a seconder. 1310 01:11:38.960 --> 01:11:41.680 Okay, the liberty to sin against God, that's what it's 1311 01:11:41.720 --> 01:11:42.159 all about. 1312 01:11:43.039 --> 01:11:46.159 Well, yeah, I mean liberty, liberty itself. I don't need 1313 01:11:46.199 --> 01:11:51.399 a symbol, uh to know that. Uh. Worshiping liberty and 1314 01:11:51.479 --> 01:11:56.520 freedom above all is uh a nefarious plan. I figured 1315 01:11:56.520 --> 01:11:59.399 that out pretty early without the Statue of Liberty. So 1316 01:12:00.199 --> 01:12:03.199 you know, if that's the case, Rocky, we both agree 1317 01:12:03.199 --> 01:12:08.319 that selling liberty above all is a sort of satanic trick. 1318 01:12:09.039 --> 01:12:10.159 What's the narrow. 1319 01:12:10.039 --> 01:12:17.399 Path Jesus is the narrow path Jesus. 1320 01:12:17.880 --> 01:12:20.520 But Jesus is a being. So is there a way 1321 01:12:20.560 --> 01:12:25.640 in which to properly way the way the truth? I 1322 01:12:26.880 --> 01:12:29.000 know the platitudes and the words, But is there a 1323 01:12:29.079 --> 01:12:32.800 proper way to follow and live a christ Like life? 1324 01:12:34.039 --> 01:12:40.000 Well, I don't believe it's relying on people you call fathers. 1325 01:12:40.359 --> 01:12:42.720 Well I didn't ask that. I asked is there a 1326 01:12:42.800 --> 01:12:44.319 proper way to follow Christ? 1327 01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:48.319 Well? I guess there is. 1328 01:12:49.199 --> 01:12:52.960 And would the proper way of following Christ be preserved 1329 01:12:53.079 --> 01:12:59.800 by men and taught? Or is it figured out? Every 1330 01:12:59.840 --> 01:13:02.840 individual is born and they figured out themselves the proper 1331 01:13:02.880 --> 01:13:04.319 way to follow Christ. 1332 01:13:05.560 --> 01:13:08.520 Well, we have pastors, but we don't call them fathers. 1333 01:13:09.680 --> 01:13:13.239 Well I don't, I don't. Well, that wasn't. My definition 1334 01:13:13.359 --> 01:13:15.399 of a father in the church is an elderly. 1335 01:13:16.119 --> 01:13:20.239 So wait, you don't follow fathers, but you follow pastors. 1336 01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:25.279 I study under pastors. You have the gift of pastor teacher. 1337 01:13:25.960 --> 01:13:27.520 They have the gift pastoring. 1338 01:13:27.640 --> 01:13:31.720 Some people have gifts. Some people there's gifts themselves. 1339 01:13:31.760 --> 01:13:32.800 Fathers don't have that. 1340 01:13:35.159 --> 01:13:38.560 Well, it says not to give anyone the title of father. 1341 01:13:38.960 --> 01:13:41.600 Well, that's heavenly father. That is to say that you 1342 01:13:41.680 --> 01:13:45.279 don't call any man the status of heavenly father. The 1343 01:13:45.399 --> 01:13:49.520 term father replaced synonymous with a dad, is not what 1344 01:13:49.560 --> 01:13:52.960 they're referring to. Neither are they referring to a father 1345 01:13:53.159 --> 01:13:57.000 in the church, who's essentially a position of an office, 1346 01:13:57.000 --> 01:14:01.560 position of a priest position. So if you're the father, 1347 01:14:02.800 --> 01:14:03.239 well I don't. 1348 01:14:03.279 --> 01:14:07.920 I'm not his father. Pope means father. 1349 01:14:08.359 --> 01:14:11.439 It's a word concept fallacy, dude. So the question is 1350 01:14:13.039 --> 01:14:16.680 are you look are you the priest of your your household? 1351 01:14:18.479 --> 01:14:19.520 I'm the head of my house. 1352 01:14:20.279 --> 01:14:22.199 Are you a priest of your house? If you call 1353 01:14:22.239 --> 01:14:24.920 yourself a follower, I. 1354 01:14:24.880 --> 01:14:28.560 Am a priest, or a saint or whatever. 1355 01:14:29.319 --> 01:14:32.399 You're a saint, Yeah, we're all saints. 1356 01:14:32.479 --> 01:14:35.000 Anyone who believes in christis okay. 1357 01:14:35.279 --> 01:14:41.640 So if you're the father of your house, isn't your own? 1358 01:14:41.880 --> 01:14:44.279 Aren't your own children following another man? 1359 01:14:46.439 --> 01:14:49.159 I don't have the title i'm I'm I'm their dad, 1360 01:14:49.199 --> 01:14:51.319 I'm their father. Yeah, but I don't do you teach 1361 01:14:51.319 --> 01:14:53.560 them in the church. I don't have a title in 1362 01:14:53.600 --> 01:14:54.760 the church called father? 1363 01:14:55.239 --> 01:14:58.439 Do they do you teach them theology? 1364 01:14:59.439 --> 01:15:01.439 My kids are grown up? Yeah, I did do that. 1365 01:15:02.359 --> 01:15:04.159 Should they have listened to you being that you're just 1366 01:15:04.199 --> 01:15:04.840 another man. 1367 01:15:07.600 --> 01:15:10.720 Well, they they listen to the Holy Spirit, Oh so 1368 01:15:10.840 --> 01:15:14.720 not you. Yeah, they listen to my words, and they 1369 01:15:14.760 --> 01:15:18.079 discern whether the Holy Spirit makes things real. 1370 01:15:19.000 --> 01:15:22.000 Oh so if they disagreed with you, and you said no, 1371 01:15:22.159 --> 01:15:24.279 the Holy Spirit told me x y is true, and 1372 01:15:24.399 --> 01:15:26.600 your son said no, the Holy Spirit told me x 1373 01:15:26.720 --> 01:15:38.600 y isn't true. Rocky, you're getting spurgey right now? How 1374 01:15:38.600 --> 01:15:41.479 do you discern between the two if you say what 1375 01:15:41.520 --> 01:15:44.359 you're saying. Let's say you make a theological statement to 1376 01:15:44.439 --> 01:15:47.600 your son and you say, the Holy Spirit is guiding 1377 01:15:47.640 --> 01:15:50.279 me to teach you right now, and he says, that's interesting. 1378 01:15:50.319 --> 01:15:52.399 The Holy Spirit is guiding me, and I don't agree 1379 01:15:52.399 --> 01:15:54.920 with you. What how do you, guys, determine the truth 1380 01:15:54.960 --> 01:15:58.760 of the theological interpretation you're teaching your kid? 1381 01:16:00.520 --> 01:16:06.039 He my children would have the Holy Spirit also, And 1382 01:16:09.840 --> 01:16:14.680 sometimes if you learn something that's false, then the. 1383 01:16:17.119 --> 01:16:23.880 Stops stop it. If you claim that the Holy Spirit 1384 01:16:24.039 --> 01:16:27.079 is guiding your interpretation of the thing you're teaching your child, 1385 01:16:27.359 --> 01:16:30.359 and your child, being grown up says, well, that's interesting, 1386 01:16:30.520 --> 01:16:33.760 I'm also being guided in the interpretation. I don't agree 1387 01:16:33.760 --> 01:16:37.199 with you. I asked you, what's the methodology to determine 1388 01:16:37.199 --> 01:16:39.960 who is correct. If you both are claiming to have 1389 01:16:39.960 --> 01:16:46.920 the Holy Spirit guiding you the scriptures, that's the thing 1390 01:16:46.960 --> 01:16:50.000 in question, Rocky. If I interpret the scriptures, and I'm 1391 01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:53.479 guided to interpret the Holy Scriptures right by the Holy Spirit, 1392 01:16:53.880 --> 01:16:56.399 and you both look at the scriptures, the same scripture, 1393 01:16:56.840 --> 01:17:00.000 and you come to a different a disagreement, a contradict 1394 01:17:00.119 --> 01:17:03.479 read disagreement between your interpretations, and you both claim to 1395 01:17:03.520 --> 01:17:06.319 be guided by the Holy Spirit in your interpretation of 1396 01:17:06.359 --> 01:17:08.319 the scriptures. I ask you, how do you discern who's right? 1397 01:17:08.359 --> 01:17:09.319 And you say, the scriptures. 1398 01:17:10.720 --> 01:17:40.720 Yeah, see, I'm learning, all right, this is domb waste 1399 01:17:40.720 --> 01:17:41.159 my time. 1400 01:17:44.520 --> 01:17:47.439 I just can't. You can't if you don't understand, Rocky, 1401 01:17:47.680 --> 01:17:52.239 God bless your soul. If you don't understand the problem here. 1402 01:17:53.760 --> 01:17:56.920 If two people claim to have the power and the 1403 01:17:56.920 --> 01:18:00.279 guidance of the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture by the way, 1404 01:18:00.279 --> 01:18:03.159 you didn't get the scripture yourself. That required a whole 1405 01:18:03.239 --> 01:18:08.039 slew of history such that you can hold a binding 1406 01:18:08.159 --> 01:18:13.399 called the books. You're already appealing to men before you 1407 01:18:13.800 --> 01:18:16.039 who are guided by the same thing you say you're 1408 01:18:16.039 --> 01:18:18.600 guided by. The problem is the people who were guided 1409 01:18:18.800 --> 01:18:23.960 into forming and getting the books of the Cannon and 1410 01:18:23.960 --> 01:18:30.720 putting them into a binded, organized compilation for you to read. 1411 01:18:32.760 --> 01:18:36.720 They also have preserved interpretation of that. They didn't just 1412 01:18:36.800 --> 01:18:41.359 like put pages and not practice it right Rocky, By 1413 01:18:41.359 --> 01:18:47.159 the way, the scripture itself was used for liturgical practices, 1414 01:18:47.279 --> 01:18:50.520 not for your son and you to read and to 1415 01:18:50.560 --> 01:18:53.840 come up with interpretations that you think. It means. It's 1416 01:18:53.840 --> 01:18:58.960 not for you to decode. So the problem you have 1417 01:18:59.319 --> 01:19:02.319 is an epistel problem, because how do you know you're 1418 01:19:02.359 --> 01:19:03.960 interpreting the scripture correctly? 1419 01:19:04.199 --> 01:19:04.399 Right? 1420 01:19:05.000 --> 01:19:06.880 Is the question? And you said, I'm guided by the 1421 01:19:06.880 --> 01:19:09.359 Holy Spirit. I said, that's interesting. If your son is 1422 01:19:09.399 --> 01:19:11.439 guided by the Holy Spirit and he disagrees with the 1423 01:19:11.479 --> 01:19:16.640 same scripture interpretation, how do you figure out who's right? 1424 01:19:16.680 --> 01:19:21.239 And you said, the scriptures okay, you can't do that 1425 01:19:24.079 --> 01:19:27.760 is god logical? Would God lead you to an illogical 1426 01:19:27.840 --> 01:19:34.800 path of understanding? No, you have an illogical path of understanding. Therefore, 1427 01:19:34.800 --> 01:19:39.520 it's not from God, it's from something else. It's from you. 1428 01:19:39.760 --> 01:19:42.279 I wouldn't even say it's demonic. I'm not even saying that. 1429 01:19:42.319 --> 01:19:44.640 I'm saying you're the authority. You're just like, oh, well, 1430 01:19:44.680 --> 01:19:50.119 I know and then you're like, well, the fathers, you 1431 01:19:50.119 --> 01:19:53.119 guys appeal to church fathers, so do you hold You 1432 01:19:53.159 --> 01:19:55.880 hold a Bible in your hand. You appeal to church fathers. 1433 01:19:55.920 --> 01:20:02.039 You appeal to a normative authority to protect you, appeal 1434 01:20:02.119 --> 01:20:06.520 to counsels to protect the faith and its interpretation in 1435 01:20:06.600 --> 01:20:11.399 practice from heresy, from gnarcissism, from all of these things. 1436 01:20:11.760 --> 01:20:15.560 And yet you have this privileged position in modernity to 1437 01:20:15.640 --> 01:20:17.760 go down the street, get a free Bible or a 1438 01:20:17.800 --> 01:20:19.479 dollar bible, hold it in your hand and be like, 1439 01:20:19.640 --> 01:20:24.159 I don't need anything. I don't need a damn thing. 1440 01:20:24.199 --> 01:20:27.039 I just guess me and my son and the Holy 1441 01:20:27.119 --> 01:20:31.359 Spirit in nineteen seventeen seventy six and adding numbers together. 1442 01:20:31.439 --> 01:20:41.279 Come on, dude, come on, don't do this. Wilson nineteen 1443 01:20:41.319 --> 01:20:43.640 dollars twenty bucks. Thank you so much, Rachel, hope you're 1444 01:20:43.680 --> 01:20:47.000 doing well. I learned that this type of rebellious Protestant 1445 01:20:47.079 --> 01:20:50.000 loves making up their own system to follow, which reduces 1446 01:20:50.039 --> 01:20:53.399 to you're not my dad. You can't every time, Rachel, 1447 01:20:54.239 --> 01:20:59.199 every time it's you're not my dad. And yet I 1448 01:20:59.239 --> 01:21:03.479 ask them, do you teach your son? Do you teach 1449 01:21:03.520 --> 01:21:05.439 your son? 1450 01:21:06.840 --> 01:21:07.239 Yeah? 1451 01:21:07.279 --> 01:21:10.119 But I don't call myself a father, I say Deaddy. 1452 01:21:11.439 --> 01:21:18.079 I don't say father, I say deaddy Diddy. Well, Emmanuel 1453 01:21:18.119 --> 01:21:21.359 two hundred pesos endless celestial l's in the chat. Yeah, 1454 01:21:21.359 --> 01:21:23.359 I'm gonna have to change my own whole song, dude, 1455 01:21:24.760 --> 01:21:31.199 change my whole damn song, Diddy. Sincere hypocrite member for 1456 01:21:31.239 --> 01:21:33.640 one month, don't follow any man proceeds to create his 1457 01:21:33.680 --> 01:21:36.479 own man made understanding against the Bible. Well, that's it's 1458 01:21:36.479 --> 01:21:39.800 a huge thing, sincere hypocrite. If I granted someone like 1459 01:21:40.520 --> 01:21:43.880 Rocky his interpretation and he thought it was authoritative because 1460 01:21:43.880 --> 01:21:45.680 he was guided by the Holy Spirit, yet he has 1461 01:21:45.760 --> 01:21:48.479 no methodology for discerning whether or not he's wrong or not. 1462 01:21:49.279 --> 01:21:52.640 And I said, are you comfortable enough, being that you've 1463 01:21:52.640 --> 01:21:54.960 been guided by the Holy Spirit to interpret this already 1464 01:21:55.000 --> 01:21:59.159 interpreted book of books? Would you be willing to start 1465 01:21:59.479 --> 01:22:03.960 your own church declaratively so, and to develop traditions around 1466 01:22:04.039 --> 01:22:07.920 your church and your and your beliefs. It's not weird 1467 01:22:07.960 --> 01:22:12.479 that that's already happened, and you're holding the artifact of that. 1468 01:22:12.479 --> 01:22:15.279 That the that the book of Books, the Bible, the 1469 01:22:15.399 --> 01:22:21.319 canon is the fruit is the product of a tradition 1470 01:22:23.039 --> 01:22:28.119 that preceded the object. No, I don't listen to them. Yes, 1471 01:22:28.119 --> 01:22:30.039 you do. You hold that, you hold it in your hand. 1472 01:22:30.119 --> 01:22:34.239 You listen. You just don't agree with their interpretation, but 1473 01:22:34.319 --> 01:22:37.279 you certainly listen to their authority in determining which books 1474 01:22:37.279 --> 01:22:39.319 go into the Bible that's not in the Bible. Rocky, 1475 01:22:40.279 --> 01:22:42.399 the list of books that were to go into the 1476 01:22:42.399 --> 01:22:47.920 Bible that's not in the Bible. How do they know 1477 01:22:48.000 --> 01:22:51.800 they aren't their dad? How do you even know you're 1478 01:22:51.800 --> 01:22:54.199 not your dad? You like to make stuff up, don't you? 1479 01:23:03.039 --> 01:23:06.119 What can you say? What can you say? You can't 1480 01:23:06.119 --> 01:23:09.319 say much. You can't debate. You can't debate. You can't 1481 01:23:09.319 --> 01:23:14.279 debate a spiritual issue. You can debate a knowledge issue. 1482 01:23:15.000 --> 01:23:19.239 You can debate facts against facts if there's a spiritual issue, 1483 01:23:19.239 --> 01:23:21.800 like Rachel pointed out, if there's a not you're not 1484 01:23:21.840 --> 01:23:25.920 my daddy, I information is not going to solve that 1485 01:23:25.960 --> 01:23:29.600 you're not my daddy. There's no information you can give 1486 01:23:29.600 --> 01:23:37.239 someone that's going to overwhelm that impulse to say, no, Daddy, 1487 01:23:37.479 --> 01:23:41.640 not me. Hold in the goods twenty bucks. I did 1488 01:23:41.680 --> 01:23:43.279 the same thing when I was a Baptist. I felt 1489 01:23:43.319 --> 01:23:44.840 like I was in a loop and I never ended. 1490 01:23:44.880 --> 01:23:47.039 It's a never ending loop. That was until I actually 1491 01:23:47.119 --> 01:23:49.319 read the church fathers in history. Didn't a rich man 1492 01:23:49.359 --> 01:23:52.119 call Abraham father when he was in the whole father 1493 01:23:52.199 --> 01:23:55.319 thing is insane? Called no man father taking the term 1494 01:23:55.439 --> 01:24:00.239 father capital f knowing exactly that it's referring to. No. Oh, 1495 01:24:00.319 --> 01:24:05.960 man can be equivalent to heavenly father. No man alone man, 1496 01:24:06.199 --> 01:24:10.600 don't call don't refer to man as equal status. It's 1497 01:24:10.600 --> 01:24:13.560 not a word thing. Oh you said it, he said. 1498 01:24:13.600 --> 01:24:16.359 Oh accidentally called my father my daddy father on that 1499 01:24:16.520 --> 01:24:19.720 thanksgiving Oh my gosh, Lord forgive me. That's not what 1500 01:24:19.760 --> 01:24:26.520 it's referring to. Justin Henley five dollars, call no merry 1501 01:24:26.560 --> 01:24:30.119 woman missus, because all women are brides of Christ. Use 1502 01:24:30.279 --> 01:24:33.760 lady lady Bob and lady Wilson, which means they are married. 1503 01:24:33.800 --> 01:24:37.279 That's a good point. Why not be consistent? Justin Austin 1504 01:24:37.359 --> 01:24:41.119 the Daily, I have been listening a way and aware 1505 01:24:41.279 --> 01:24:49.640 and great extreme Jimbob, call me, call me, don't call 1506 01:24:49.680 --> 01:24:54.119 me father. You listen to your diddy. We didn't the 1507 01:24:54.239 --> 01:25:20.840 deily away mm hmmmmmm. Spiritual enthusiasts, uh, feel free to 1508 01:25:20.920 --> 01:25:23.399 go over to my discord. There'll be plenty of people 1509 01:25:23.439 --> 01:25:27.079 who sort out all your chat based questions into one 1510 01:25:27.119 --> 01:25:35.000 on one questions. Okay, go for it. What conditioner I 1511 01:25:35.039 --> 01:25:37.840 don't use? I barely condition I don't wash my hair. 1512 01:25:39.760 --> 01:25:41.760 Once in a while, I'll use a conditioner that's like 1513 01:25:41.840 --> 01:25:50.039 anti Dandriff. It's not father, it's ditty. Yes, this is 1514 01:25:50.039 --> 01:26:02.279 Diddy Diddy speaking of this is kind of wild. 1515 01:26:04.159 --> 01:26:09.119 Eric Sworsinski from the Preacher Boys podcast, This sissy boy, Uh, 1516 01:26:09.359 --> 01:26:12.960 you know a new platform many reprobate lesbian or atheist, 1517 01:26:13.359 --> 01:26:17.079 you know, to make any accusation. Basically he did about 1518 01:26:17.079 --> 01:26:19.640 three valid episodes a valid abuse. 1519 01:26:19.800 --> 01:26:25.199 You know, where is this? What is this? Didn't I 1520 01:26:25.199 --> 01:26:31.199 didn't know Nathan Rager had such history. It's just wild. 1521 01:26:31.560 --> 01:26:33.720 That outfit. I feel like when I go on whatever, 1522 01:26:33.840 --> 01:26:36.479 maybe I should source that outfit he's got on. Don't 1523 01:26:36.479 --> 01:26:38.880 you think look at that? Imagine I show up like that. 1524 01:26:42.960 --> 01:26:45.239 Oh my gosh, he's in definitely an a basement. That 1525 01:26:45.399 --> 01:26:48.399 is a basement in Indiana or something. I don't even know. 1526 01:26:48.880 --> 01:26:58.239 It's got that dark, windowless feel Indiana porker. That's in 1527 01:26:58.279 --> 01:27:01.920 my town. You know that base rip? You know that basement. 1528 01:27:02.600 --> 01:27:11.279 M Ben Shapiro with Truppy speaking of Michael Malice. He 1529 01:27:11.560 --> 01:27:15.159 dressed like a I think it was purposeful. Yeah, he's 1530 01:27:15.239 --> 01:27:18.359 dressed just like a pimp on timpoole. 1531 01:27:19.079 --> 01:27:35.159 Mm hmmm, weird. 1532 01:27:37.640 --> 01:27:39.560 Anything else you gotta say, Rocky. 1533 01:27:40.920 --> 01:27:47.560 No, No, you make a lot of sense. You make 1534 01:27:47.680 --> 01:27:52.159 a lot of sense. And I'm not saying you're wrong. 1535 01:27:53.760 --> 01:27:57.199 I could be wrong, and that probably am. I've been 1536 01:27:57.239 --> 01:28:01.520 wrong before. So is it a salvational issue. 1537 01:28:02.920 --> 01:28:06.880 Well, that's what's so cool, at least about the church 1538 01:28:08.279 --> 01:28:13.359 I'm in, is that there's no declarative salvation knowledge. But 1539 01:28:13.439 --> 01:28:16.399 there might be issues that you can point to that 1540 01:28:16.439 --> 01:28:19.800 you'd want to be clear about. So while I can't 1541 01:28:19.840 --> 01:28:23.680 sit here, ever and make any declarative statements about your salvation, 1542 01:28:23.800 --> 01:28:27.399 because I can't judge, and I can't judge the judge 1543 01:28:27.960 --> 01:28:32.720 as far as the practice, though, if the path is narrow, 1544 01:28:33.039 --> 01:28:36.279 and if Christ established a church, then there's a history 1545 01:28:36.279 --> 01:28:38.279 of the church. And if there's a history of the church, 1546 01:28:38.600 --> 01:28:41.399 there's a lineage of men who preserve the history of 1547 01:28:41.439 --> 01:28:43.960 the church. And so if that's the case, and no 1548 01:28:44.000 --> 01:28:49.279 one can avoid that, you or me, if there is 1549 01:28:49.319 --> 01:28:51.720 some sort of succession that had to have happened for 1550 01:28:51.800 --> 01:28:54.279 you to even hold the books of books in your hand, 1551 01:28:55.119 --> 01:28:58.479 then it would follow that there isn't a normative authority 1552 01:28:58.520 --> 01:29:01.079 that preceded even our existence, even before you and I 1553 01:29:01.119 --> 01:29:04.279 were born, that this was already in effect, that there 1554 01:29:04.359 --> 01:29:10.399 was some sort of authority that practiced and preserved what 1555 01:29:10.439 --> 01:29:14.680 we call Christianity as a as a practice, as a 1556 01:29:14.680 --> 01:29:20.720 theological position, as something worth defending from perversion and heresy. 1557 01:29:21.439 --> 01:29:25.159 And if that's the case, what I point to is 1558 01:29:25.880 --> 01:29:33.199 two thousand years of tradition, an interpretation that is solid. 1559 01:29:33.279 --> 01:29:35.680 Even if you took the Bible away from them, the 1560 01:29:35.800 --> 01:29:39.920 practice would maintain it that that liturgical practices would maintain 1561 01:29:40.119 --> 01:29:47.319 from just straight up tradition, and tradition itself is biblical 1562 01:29:47.359 --> 01:29:52.319 as well. That Thesalonial Thessalonians points to holding steadfast to 1563 01:29:52.439 --> 01:29:58.399 tradition both practice word mouth scripture. So there's extra biblical 1564 01:29:58.439 --> 01:30:01.479 aspects to Christianity. And if you hold a book in 1565 01:30:01.520 --> 01:30:03.319 your hand and you called the Bible and think the 1566 01:30:03.359 --> 01:30:07.359 thing you're following, it follows that because that Bible has 1567 01:30:07.399 --> 01:30:12.000 a history where to one instance, it didn't exist, that 1568 01:30:12.119 --> 01:30:16.920 means Christianity must have necessarily existed before the Bible. And 1569 01:30:16.960 --> 01:30:19.640 so if that's the case, Rocky I ask someone like you, 1570 01:30:20.520 --> 01:30:25.039 who I've asked myself this question, Oh, man, what was Christianity? Then? 1571 01:30:25.920 --> 01:30:29.800 What is Christianity? If there's a Christianity that precedes canon, 1572 01:30:34.119 --> 01:30:37.319 what does that look like? What is Christianity in the 1573 01:30:37.399 --> 01:30:42.399 year four fifty five hundred when you and me would 1574 01:30:42.399 --> 01:30:44.880 be lay laity, We would be layperson who didn't have 1575 01:30:44.920 --> 01:30:47.000 a book called the Bible. It would be too expensive, 1576 01:30:47.000 --> 01:30:49.359 we wouldn't have access to this. So how would we 1577 01:30:49.439 --> 01:30:52.239 get the knowledge and the truth and the scripture? How 1578 01:30:52.279 --> 01:30:56.159 would it be delivered to us? I argue, with historical 1579 01:30:56.319 --> 01:31:00.760 backing that we would get it by attending a church 1580 01:31:00.800 --> 01:31:03.239 that would have some sort of authoritative position on it. 1581 01:31:03.359 --> 01:31:03.560 Right. 1582 01:31:04.760 --> 01:31:08.039 Well, if that's the case, if I were to ask, well, 1583 01:31:08.199 --> 01:31:11.600 what's the narrow path, and I said, I think the 1584 01:31:11.720 --> 01:31:16.479 narrow path would be something akin to closely linked to 1585 01:31:17.760 --> 01:31:21.399 what would be practiced in the year four to five 1586 01:31:21.479 --> 01:31:25.680 hundred and held true to that practice over time, so 1587 01:31:25.680 --> 01:31:30.399 that when you walk into a church, your experience you 1588 01:31:30.439 --> 01:31:32.760 could just as well be in the year five hundred. 1589 01:31:33.279 --> 01:31:35.680 That's appealing to me, Rocky. 1590 01:31:38.399 --> 01:31:43.039 Yeah, But how do you know whatever father you're following 1591 01:31:44.640 --> 01:31:47.880 as the truth? You know which father do you follow. 1592 01:31:47.960 --> 01:31:50.640 I mean, if you're talking about like a priest of 1593 01:31:50.680 --> 01:31:54.840 your parish, well, the priest of the parish is not falling. 1594 01:31:54.880 --> 01:31:57.840 He's holding an office, he's not holding him his personal 1595 01:31:58.600 --> 01:32:01.039 opinion like a guy. I'm a guy, and this is 1596 01:32:01.079 --> 01:32:05.840 my view of Orthodoxy. He goes through a rigorous process 1597 01:32:05.880 --> 01:32:08.960 to become a priest, and he's bound to holding to 1598 01:32:09.079 --> 01:32:12.720 the tradition of the church going back to the earliest 1599 01:32:13.159 --> 01:32:19.159 So he doesn't have the ability or the authority to 1600 01:32:19.239 --> 01:32:25.479 reinterpret everything because rocky scripture in the practical sense in 1601 01:32:25.600 --> 01:32:30.319 Orthodoxy is presented to you in practice through the liturgical worship. 1602 01:32:30.880 --> 01:32:33.840 It's not you sit around and you ask the priest, well, 1603 01:32:33.960 --> 01:32:36.119 let's talk about this scripture, and that you could do 1604 01:32:36.279 --> 01:32:41.479 biblical studies. But that's the difference between someone who's holding 1605 01:32:41.479 --> 01:32:43.560 a Bible and they say, let's do a Bible study 1606 01:32:43.600 --> 01:32:46.119 and go, well, who's lead, how do you know who's leading, 1607 01:32:46.159 --> 01:32:49.000 Who's what's the criteria for truth here? And they go, 1608 01:32:49.039 --> 01:32:51.159 I don't know. We're just gonna kind of we're going 1609 01:32:51.239 --> 01:32:52.800 to say what we get from it, like it's a 1610 01:32:52.800 --> 01:32:56.159 book club, and see who sounds like the best, who's 1611 01:32:56.199 --> 01:32:58.560 making the most sense, what I'm saying, is that in 1612 01:32:58.640 --> 01:33:01.479 orthodoxy that's not even occurring. You don't even do that. 1613 01:33:01.640 --> 01:33:05.439 You don't sit around and figure out what each person 1614 01:33:05.560 --> 01:33:10.319 thinks something means. That's not what's happening. There's no reinterpretation 1615 01:33:10.439 --> 01:33:13.800 today of the Bible, whereas there's a lot of that 1616 01:33:13.960 --> 01:33:16.520 going on with someone who just merely holds a Bible 1617 01:33:16.560 --> 01:33:18.600 and rejects any sort of authority. They just go, well, 1618 01:33:18.640 --> 01:33:20.920 I'm gonna I'm gonna interpret the crap out of this thing. 1619 01:33:22.119 --> 01:33:24.680 Then I'm going to join live streams and share my 1620 01:33:24.760 --> 01:33:26.920 own views on what I think I interpreted. 1621 01:33:27.039 --> 01:33:34.880 Right, I had a consider it, pastor, my authority, my teacher. 1622 01:33:35.319 --> 01:33:38.319 And you're a pastor of what what church? 1623 01:33:38.840 --> 01:33:39.880 Church? I used to go to? 1624 01:33:40.640 --> 01:33:41.159 What church? 1625 01:33:41.239 --> 01:33:43.800 Is that barrack at church? 1626 01:33:44.840 --> 01:33:51.359 And is that church have a starting point in history? 1627 01:33:53.479 --> 01:33:58.119 It was a Dallas seminary student. Okay, my study. 1628 01:33:58.000 --> 01:34:01.960 Are inbrew And I understand I'm not questioning is is 1629 01:34:02.239 --> 01:34:08.159 is education. I'm saying the church, he's he's authorized, he's 1630 01:34:08.159 --> 01:34:11.199 self authorizing this church. I'm asking the church itself, like, 1631 01:34:11.239 --> 01:34:15.560 for instance, could that church also simultaneously exist as an 1632 01:34:15.560 --> 01:34:18.279 extension of that church simultaneously in another state? 1633 01:34:21.159 --> 01:34:23.880 At the same time, he had a church that he 1634 01:34:24.600 --> 01:34:28.520 it started up in the fifties, so that. 1635 01:34:28.600 --> 01:34:31.600 The origin, yeah, I understand, is. 1636 01:34:30.159 --> 01:34:35.520 That fifties non denominational Okay. Church. So I understand studied 1637 01:34:35.600 --> 01:34:38.439 under the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramic. 1638 01:34:39.119 --> 01:34:42.800 So that's the thing. If that church has a start point, 1639 01:34:42.880 --> 01:34:46.159 that's not the start point of Jesus Christ starting the 1640 01:34:46.239 --> 01:34:51.439 church establishing the church. I'm asking what's the origin story 1641 01:34:51.479 --> 01:34:53.640 of the church. It sounds like this church started in 1642 01:34:55.520 --> 01:34:58.319 the church started in nineteen fifty. Well, if you're. 1643 01:34:58.239 --> 01:35:01.199 Taking a local church, yet it's called a local church, 1644 01:35:01.239 --> 01:35:05.039 it's not the church. It's a local. 1645 01:35:04.319 --> 01:35:07.840 Okay, I understand. But if the local church has to 1646 01:35:07.880 --> 01:35:11.119 be necessarily if it's a true church connected to the church, 1647 01:35:11.680 --> 01:35:15.640 which the church that Jesus Christ is the high priest of. 1648 01:35:17.239 --> 01:35:19.119 If Jesus Christ is the high priest of a church, 1649 01:35:19.640 --> 01:35:25.079 the church preceded the nineteen fifty church, right right, Okay, 1650 01:35:25.239 --> 01:35:28.000 So what's the church If it's not your your got 1651 01:35:28.039 --> 01:35:31.119 your church that you that that guy established in nineteen fifty, 1652 01:35:31.520 --> 01:35:33.880 what is the church that existed church? 1653 01:35:33.960 --> 01:35:38.800 I believe the church is all believers, the universal, it's everyone, 1654 01:35:39.800 --> 01:35:44.119 every soul of it. Everyone who's who believes and follows 1655 01:35:44.159 --> 01:35:47.760 the gospel is a member of the body. Some people. 1656 01:35:48.279 --> 01:35:51.199 Some people have a gift of teaching. Some have a 1657 01:35:51.239 --> 01:35:57.600 gift that helps. Some people have different gifts. And I 1658 01:35:57.680 --> 01:36:01.119 believe there's a gift of teaching. And so my pastor teacher, 1659 01:36:01.239 --> 01:36:05.159 I believed he was had to give the teaching. He 1660 01:36:05.239 --> 01:36:08.720 never called himself father, but he was the elder. He 1661 01:36:08.880 --> 01:36:11.239 was in charge of that local church. 1662 01:36:12.119 --> 01:36:17.239 Okay, I, oh, good thing. He would have been burning 1663 01:36:17.279 --> 01:36:20.159 in hell for saying that word. 1664 01:36:20.319 --> 01:36:25.319 And that's not what I'm saying. The word father, and 1665 01:36:25.600 --> 01:36:29.680 you're humorous doesn't win every debate, I mean debates, I don't. 1666 01:36:29.720 --> 01:36:32.039 I'm not a debater. I don't know how to debate. 1667 01:36:32.439 --> 01:36:36.039 That's not my thing. I'm just trying to talk to you, 1668 01:36:36.399 --> 01:36:37.279 have a conversation. 1669 01:36:37.479 --> 01:36:40.159 Oh that's fine, that's fine. I just rigorous me. 1670 01:36:40.279 --> 01:36:44.199 It doesn't matter. You can call me whatever you want. 1671 01:36:44.319 --> 01:36:46.800 It doesn't really matter. It doesn't hurt my feeling. 1672 01:36:48.720 --> 01:36:56.760 Anything else. Okay. So when you said, you said you 1673 01:36:56.840 --> 01:36:59.439 believe the church is anyone who follows the Gospel, and 1674 01:36:59.479 --> 01:37:02.039 I asked you for is there a way in which 1675 01:37:02.039 --> 01:37:07.399 someone could incorrectly follow or let's say convey the teachings 1676 01:37:07.399 --> 01:37:08.039 of the gospel. 1677 01:37:08.960 --> 01:37:12.600 Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's false I'm not saying everyone who 1678 01:37:12.640 --> 01:37:14.520 calls them a church is a church. 1679 01:37:15.000 --> 01:37:18.800 Okay, so this is a it's a Is there a 1680 01:37:18.800 --> 01:37:19.439 false church? 1681 01:37:20.479 --> 01:37:22.079 Yeah, there's false churches. 1682 01:37:22.640 --> 01:37:27.680 Can a false church literally hold the gospel and teach 1683 01:37:27.720 --> 01:37:30.159 it directly and say they believe in the gospel and 1684 01:37:30.159 --> 01:37:35.600 they're teaching it and be incorrectly teaching? What do you 1685 01:37:35.680 --> 01:37:38.640 mean if they have can a church? Can a church 1686 01:37:39.079 --> 01:37:41.279 open its doors and say we're going to teach the 1687 01:37:41.319 --> 01:37:44.000 gospel and they stand on stage and they do what 1688 01:37:44.000 --> 01:37:46.079 they believe is teaching the gospel and they think they 1689 01:37:46.119 --> 01:37:48.239 believe in the gospel, and they believe that they're teaching 1690 01:37:48.239 --> 01:37:50.920 the gospel. I said, is it possible, I'm asking, is 1691 01:37:50.920 --> 01:37:54.439 it possible that they are incorrectly teaching the gospel even 1692 01:37:54.439 --> 01:37:56.800 though they believe they're they're teaching it? 1693 01:37:56.880 --> 01:37:57.119 Sure? 1694 01:37:58.479 --> 01:38:01.680 If that's the case, rocky. If it's the case that 1695 01:38:01.800 --> 01:38:04.840 a group of people can start at church and they 1696 01:38:04.880 --> 01:38:07.359 believe they're in the gospel, but they believe they're teaching 1697 01:38:07.359 --> 01:38:09.039 the gospel, and it could be the case that they're 1698 01:38:09.039 --> 01:38:13.239 incorrectly teaching the gospel. This being a logical possibility and 1699 01:38:13.279 --> 01:38:17.439 a practical possibility means that there's an authority and a 1700 01:38:17.479 --> 01:38:20.039 criteria to be able to tell you whether or not 1701 01:38:20.079 --> 01:38:22.439 they're correctly teaching the gospel right. 1702 01:38:26.000 --> 01:38:30.800 Well, that's where I believe that you have to rightly interpret, 1703 01:38:31.000 --> 01:38:33.079 you know, the word God. 1704 01:38:33.760 --> 01:38:36.199 To rightly interpret the word of God means that there's 1705 01:38:36.199 --> 01:38:39.520 an authority to tell you did you correctly interpret this? 1706 01:38:39.640 --> 01:38:43.399 Or is this some sort of heretical blasphemy, blasphemy view 1707 01:38:43.479 --> 01:38:45.239 or something. Right, there's got to be some authority that 1708 01:38:45.319 --> 01:38:47.399 tells you whether or not you're correctly doing it right. 1709 01:38:49.840 --> 01:38:52.399 You know how you do a test in math, and 1710 01:38:52.680 --> 01:38:55.239 the authority on the matters of whether you got the 1711 01:38:55.279 --> 01:38:57.680 answers right or not is the teacher and the teacher. 1712 01:38:57.800 --> 01:39:00.479 Yes, yeah, I understand what you're trying to say. You're 1713 01:39:00.479 --> 01:39:02.600 trying to say there has to be some kind of 1714 01:39:03.000 --> 01:39:07.800 human authority that's above me that that I have to 1715 01:39:08.039 --> 01:39:10.880 You know, he's the father, so he's the elder. 1716 01:39:11.279 --> 01:39:15.319 You mean, like being a father of the home. No, No, 1717 01:39:15.399 --> 01:39:18.399 I'm not telling about like that. Well no, are you? 1718 01:39:18.479 --> 01:39:18.600 Well? 1719 01:39:18.640 --> 01:39:20.800 The reason I use that as an excuse, Rocky, or 1720 01:39:20.840 --> 01:39:24.840 as an example, is that if you're a Christian and 1721 01:39:24.880 --> 01:39:27.359 you believe in the quote Gospel as you say, then 1722 01:39:27.520 --> 01:39:30.279 it would follow that who you are in the home 1723 01:39:30.800 --> 01:39:35.560 is a representation of of Christ in a sense, and 1724 01:39:35.680 --> 01:39:38.119 in a sense your home is a type of an 1725 01:39:38.159 --> 01:39:39.119 extension of a church. 1726 01:39:39.319 --> 01:39:39.479 Right. 1727 01:39:39.880 --> 01:39:43.159 So if that's the case, you, the father of the home, 1728 01:39:43.319 --> 01:39:44.920 are the authority of the owner. 1729 01:39:45.039 --> 01:39:45.159 Right. 1730 01:39:45.640 --> 01:39:48.560 If your kid says I think this means this and 1731 01:39:48.680 --> 01:39:51.600 Christ isn't really God, let's say they say that. Let's 1732 01:39:51.640 --> 01:39:56.199 say they deny the Trinity's authority. That's right, And so 1733 01:39:56.239 --> 01:39:57.720 what authority you under? 1734 01:39:59.760 --> 01:40:02.600 I'm I'm under Christ. He's the head of the church. 1735 01:40:03.159 --> 01:40:07.039 Yeah, but how do you where's the authority in the 1736 01:40:07.079 --> 01:40:08.680 world of Christ church? 1737 01:40:12.800 --> 01:40:15.920 Well, I don't believe it's this guy or that guy. 1738 01:40:16.439 --> 01:40:16.920 But it's you. 1739 01:40:17.279 --> 01:40:19.439 Actually, you do believe it's this guy. You You go 1740 01:40:19.520 --> 01:40:22.079 like this, I believe this guy. So here's what we have, Rocky. 1741 01:40:22.479 --> 01:40:24.800 You believe that Christ established a church, but there's no 1742 01:40:24.880 --> 01:40:28.399 actual church. It's anyone who believes in in in the Gospel. 1743 01:40:28.640 --> 01:40:31.239 And I ask you, what if your son is under 1744 01:40:31.279 --> 01:40:34.199 your authority, what authority are you under? And you say Christ? 1745 01:40:34.359 --> 01:40:36.960 And I say, okay, So you're just like you are 1746 01:40:36.960 --> 01:40:40.119 criticizing Catholics for having a pope. Guess what, Rocky, you 1747 01:40:40.119 --> 01:40:45.800 know who the pope is in your instance? Guess who 1748 01:40:45.840 --> 01:40:46.359 the pope is? 1749 01:40:49.760 --> 01:40:56.039 I don't know, So you gonna get lost. You're the pope, yeah, 1750 01:40:56.039 --> 01:40:56.840 of my family? 1751 01:40:56.920 --> 01:40:59.479 Yeah, yeah, you're the pope. You're the ultimate authority of 1752 01:40:59.520 --> 01:41:00.000 the gospel. 1753 01:41:00.119 --> 01:41:03.239 What the scripture says that I'm the authority. I believe 1754 01:41:03.239 --> 01:41:04.800 in the patriarch and all that I'm not. 1755 01:41:07.000 --> 01:41:12.199 Is a patriarch hierarchical Yeah. Okay, So we have Christ 1756 01:41:12.279 --> 01:41:15.359 established a church with men in in material in the 1757 01:41:15.399 --> 01:41:20.720 material world, right, yes, biblical? Right, that's biblical. Christ established 1758 01:41:20.720 --> 01:41:24.159 a church with men. He has apostles, the body, the 1759 01:41:24.199 --> 01:41:27.760 College of Apostles who represent him expand the body of 1760 01:41:27.800 --> 01:41:32.880 the church. Those are men, right, Yeah? Are is your 1761 01:41:32.920 --> 01:41:38.560 authority higher than the apostles? No? Oh, so you're not 1762 01:41:38.600 --> 01:41:41.399 the authority then? So there is uh, there is a 1763 01:41:41.439 --> 01:41:46.159 lineage and and a hierarchical system of Christ. 1764 01:41:46.920 --> 01:41:52.399 And do you believe there's current apostles? You believe there's. 1765 01:41:52.239 --> 01:41:54.920 Well, I mean they're they're a lot well and they're 1766 01:41:54.920 --> 01:41:57.119 alive in a sense. But that's like we're getting into 1767 01:41:57.880 --> 01:42:02.439 something distinct from right now. We're talking about the rigidity 1768 01:42:02.880 --> 01:42:08.039 of a church existing and a body, a body that exists, right, 1769 01:42:08.279 --> 01:42:11.720 that is the church. If Christ established a church historically, 1770 01:42:11.760 --> 01:42:14.039 there was a moment you didn't exist, and I didn't exist. 1771 01:42:14.640 --> 01:42:21.359 That body existed in a way in material reality with 1772 01:42:21.560 --> 01:42:25.039 men and these and if we point to the apostles 1773 01:42:25.399 --> 01:42:28.079 and we say, these are the men that are called 1774 01:42:28.119 --> 01:42:32.119 to go out and teach properly, teach what you call 1775 01:42:32.159 --> 01:42:35.720 the gospel, teach and expand what the churches and share 1776 01:42:35.720 --> 01:42:38.520 it right and get people into the church. If that's 1777 01:42:38.560 --> 01:42:41.640 the case, and you admit that there they're an authority, 1778 01:42:41.720 --> 01:42:45.079 and you admit that the patriarchal system, which is hierarchical, 1779 01:42:45.479 --> 01:42:51.079 means that there is a top and then there is 1780 01:42:51.119 --> 01:42:55.920 a movement toward the bottom. Right, that's what hierarchy. 1781 01:42:56.800 --> 01:43:00.439 Yeah, when I said patriarch I meant that I believe 1782 01:43:00.479 --> 01:43:03.880 that the husband is the head of the household. I 1783 01:43:03.880 --> 01:43:09.680 don't believe women should be over. But I don't know 1784 01:43:09.760 --> 01:43:15.960 that there's currently a group of men that have authority 1785 01:43:16.039 --> 01:43:19.239 over the whole universal Church. I don't know. 1786 01:43:20.319 --> 01:43:20.680 I don't know. 1787 01:43:21.439 --> 01:43:27.399 It's just that I remember certain scriptures that says, you know, 1788 01:43:27.520 --> 01:43:30.800 like the Pharisees. They had traditions over and Jesus was 1789 01:43:30.880 --> 01:43:36.840 right there and they they were listening to their traditions, 1790 01:43:36.880 --> 01:43:41.439 the Pharisees and the Sadducees and their traditions, and Jesus 1791 01:43:41.439 --> 01:43:42.720 spoke against traditions. 1792 01:43:42.720 --> 01:43:46.079 I think no, no, he didn't speak against traditions plural, 1793 01:43:46.359 --> 01:43:49.319 Otherwise it wouldn't be in Thessalonians to hold said fast 1794 01:43:49.359 --> 01:43:53.079 to traditions. There are specific traditions he's they're referring to 1795 01:43:53.159 --> 01:43:57.960 when you say men made traditions, correct, I don't know 1796 01:43:58.000 --> 01:44:00.239 where there are a set of things that people we're 1797 01:44:00.239 --> 01:44:02.840 doing at the time that were man made traditions that 1798 01:44:02.880 --> 01:44:03.720 had nothing to. 1799 01:44:03.840 --> 01:44:11.800 See a different thinking that he was trying to say that. 1800 01:44:09.680 --> 01:44:13.479 That can God give us a tradition? 1801 01:44:14.319 --> 01:44:14.479 Wait? 1802 01:44:14.600 --> 01:44:17.600 Wait, Rocky, hold on, can God give us a tradition 1803 01:44:17.800 --> 01:44:18.279 to follow? 1804 01:44:19.119 --> 01:44:19.680 Sure? Yeah? 1805 01:44:20.119 --> 01:44:22.720 Okay? So is can there be a distinction between man 1806 01:44:22.720 --> 01:44:24.880 made tradition and God given tradition? 1807 01:44:26.560 --> 01:44:27.479 I believe so. Yeah. 1808 01:44:27.840 --> 01:44:30.039 So I'm going to ask you to just consider that 1809 01:44:30.119 --> 01:44:33.640 when you refer to the scripture that says tradition bad, 1810 01:44:34.359 --> 01:44:37.680 I just want to invite you to consider that that 1811 01:44:37.760 --> 01:44:41.359 doesn't follow that tradition is bad it was specifically a 1812 01:44:41.399 --> 01:44:44.119 type of tradition, a man made tradition. But if you believe, 1813 01:44:44.399 --> 01:44:46.399 if you believe in God and you believe in Christ, 1814 01:44:46.479 --> 01:44:49.079 that Christ established a church, and you believe there's a 1815 01:44:49.119 --> 01:44:54.119 proper way to practice practice that right to be a 1816 01:44:54.119 --> 01:44:56.359 part of this church and to practice it and keep 1817 01:44:56.399 --> 01:45:00.439 it in alive and well through the generations, that's a tradition. 1818 01:45:01.359 --> 01:45:04.479 What do you do that through? What else? What else 1819 01:45:04.720 --> 01:45:08.279 do you use as a mechanism to transfer knowledge and 1820 01:45:08.359 --> 01:45:10.920 practice to the younger generations? What would you call it 1821 01:45:10.920 --> 01:45:11.880 if it's not a tradition? 1822 01:45:13.079 --> 01:45:13.640 Download? 1823 01:45:15.039 --> 01:45:20.640 Okay, yeah, if tradition is just how do you determine 1824 01:45:20.640 --> 01:45:21.600 which tradition is? 1825 01:45:23.520 --> 01:45:23.640 Well? 1826 01:45:23.680 --> 01:45:26.239 I would say the one that the one that maintain 1827 01:45:26.600 --> 01:45:28.960 and reflects the religion of the apostles. 1828 01:45:29.199 --> 01:45:31.760 Do we use the scriptures to help? 1829 01:45:32.600 --> 01:45:34.840 Not all always, but help you need? 1830 01:45:35.760 --> 01:45:38.479 Is a scripture the final authority? Or is it your tradition? No? 1831 01:45:38.720 --> 01:45:40.800 Not sold sept Well. 1832 01:45:40.960 --> 01:45:43.079 No, I'm asking that question. 1833 01:45:43.479 --> 01:45:45.680 What what made the scripture the scripture? 1834 01:45:46.560 --> 01:45:46.640 Like? 1835 01:45:47.199 --> 01:45:49.840 Where did they pick the books? When did they pick 1836 01:45:49.920 --> 01:45:54.960 the books? Which books like? And and like? Your Bible, 1837 01:45:55.000 --> 01:46:00.720 for example, was made by a man who wanted to 1838 01:46:00.840 --> 01:46:03.960 take out wanted to take out some of the books 1839 01:46:04.000 --> 01:46:07.479 that were previously considered part of the canon of scripture. 1840 01:46:08.039 --> 01:46:14.560 So aren't you deciding arbitrarily which canons you follow are 1841 01:46:14.600 --> 01:46:17.479 not because you chose. 1842 01:46:17.920 --> 01:46:18.640 They would have to? 1843 01:46:19.359 --> 01:46:24.560 You know they have to, But how do you know, 1844 01:46:26.359 --> 01:46:29.680 like when when the when the Bible was was formed 1845 01:46:29.960 --> 01:46:35.079 as such, Bible means library, okay, and the apostles means 1846 01:46:35.399 --> 01:46:39.760 messengers okay, And messenger is the same as angel. 1847 01:46:40.039 --> 01:46:45.560 Angel means messenger. So like the Scripture itself uses the 1848 01:46:45.600 --> 01:46:49.920 word angel to refer to God and to and to 1849 01:46:50.000 --> 01:46:54.239 refer to angelic beings, to to to spiritual created beings. 1850 01:46:54.520 --> 01:46:57.399 So when you're talking about you don't think there are 1851 01:46:57.600 --> 01:47:02.000 apostles living today, it's like you're basically denying the possibility 1852 01:47:02.520 --> 01:47:07.319 that God could choose somebody to speak for him through 1853 01:47:07.359 --> 01:47:07.920 that person. 1854 01:47:08.520 --> 01:47:08.720 Right. 1855 01:47:09.039 --> 01:47:11.800 So what we're saying basically is that there is a 1856 01:47:11.840 --> 01:47:15.920 living tradition that has formed the scripture, and that the 1857 01:47:15.960 --> 01:47:19.479 scripture that you have comes from a splintered group that 1858 01:47:19.600 --> 01:47:22.560 decided that some of the books it didn't like and 1859 01:47:22.600 --> 01:47:25.600 it cut them off from the from the canon. So 1860 01:47:26.119 --> 01:47:29.000 what Jimbob is trying to to to let's say, point 1861 01:47:29.000 --> 01:47:32.680 out is that the very canon that you have was 1862 01:47:32.680 --> 01:47:37.159 was collected by people, and it was collected by people 1863 01:47:37.880 --> 01:47:43.399 who wanted to revise a previously existing canon. So what 1864 01:47:43.520 --> 01:47:47.920 he's pointing out is if you do that, you're already 1865 01:47:48.479 --> 01:47:52.399 let's say, denying the authority that came before you. And 1866 01:47:52.439 --> 01:47:55.520 you're saying, I'm the only authority. I'm the sole authority 1867 01:47:55.560 --> 01:47:59.399 to decide who God is because the previous people they 1868 01:47:59.439 --> 01:48:03.239 got it wrong. So either God lies to people or 1869 01:48:03.279 --> 01:48:06.800 your tradition is built on nothing. What we say is no, no, no, 1870 01:48:06.920 --> 01:48:11.840 The tradition is perfect. What Christ revealed to man was perfect. 1871 01:48:11.880 --> 01:48:15.039 The apostles had the fullness of the faith, and the 1872 01:48:15.079 --> 01:48:20.560 canon was built up through time, collected through time through 1873 01:48:20.720 --> 01:48:25.680 divine inspiration. And that tradition, the tradition that was able 1874 01:48:25.720 --> 01:48:30.680 to collect the different writings which were let's say, separated 1875 01:48:30.720 --> 01:48:36.359 by sometimes hundreds of years in time. Like that tradition, 1876 01:48:36.560 --> 01:48:40.039 not only is it alive, but it's actually necessary as 1877 01:48:40.039 --> 01:48:43.560 a belief for us to call ourselves Christian. Like, if 1878 01:48:43.560 --> 01:48:46.760 we are Christian, then we believe that Christ revealed himself 1879 01:48:46.800 --> 01:48:48.840 to a church and that church is living. And I 1880 01:48:48.880 --> 01:48:53.079 get the attempt to want to say, well, it's a 1881 01:48:53.119 --> 01:48:56.439 community of believers, and you only know if they believe 1882 01:48:56.479 --> 01:48:59.039 in their heart. But the reality is the church has 1883 01:48:59.119 --> 01:49:03.920 definite boundary. And if you're saying, well, I'm going to 1884 01:49:04.039 --> 01:49:08.760 choose these teachings but not those teachings, you've already gone 1885 01:49:09.279 --> 01:49:12.800 way way out of line from the tradition. Like you're 1886 01:49:12.840 --> 01:49:15.159 not in the tradition already, if you feel that you 1887 01:49:15.239 --> 01:49:18.079 have the authority to go against what the tradition has 1888 01:49:18.079 --> 01:49:18.920 already stated. 1889 01:49:19.600 --> 01:49:22.960 Also, there's a contradiction, Rocky, even if you gave yourself 1890 01:49:23.000 --> 01:49:25.600 that advantage, you know, you called it an advantage, you'd 1891 01:49:25.600 --> 01:49:28.279 be like, well, I don't need to hold these these 1892 01:49:28.319 --> 01:49:31.680 past traditions, this past authority, whatever you come to as 1893 01:49:31.720 --> 01:49:34.479 the truth, Rocky, of the the truth of the matter 1894 01:49:34.520 --> 01:49:38.520 of being a Christian in practice, the moment you practice 1895 01:49:38.520 --> 01:49:40.640 and teach it and try to preserve it. That's just 1896 01:49:40.680 --> 01:49:43.039 a new tradition that you're creating. It's innovation. We call 1897 01:49:43.079 --> 01:49:46.199 it innovation. And so it's not like you'd be doing 1898 01:49:46.279 --> 01:49:49.800 anything different than before anyway, you just be inconsistent with 1899 01:49:49.840 --> 01:49:52.920 the past. But as far as Prince on principle, the 1900 01:49:53.239 --> 01:49:57.720 principle of the argument is you're not actually against tradition, 1901 01:49:57.920 --> 01:50:01.079 because no matter what you come to as the conclusion 1902 01:50:01.119 --> 01:50:04.439 of the practice of religion, as soon as you teach 1903 01:50:04.520 --> 01:50:07.560 it and preserve it and try to like teach it 1904 01:50:07.640 --> 01:50:11.439 and push it down through generations, that's you got a 1905 01:50:11.439 --> 01:50:14.640 tradition there. So the only question is is it consistent? 1906 01:50:14.720 --> 01:50:17.399 Is a coherent does it actually can you track it 1907 01:50:17.479 --> 01:50:22.039 back to the Apostles? Well, you if there was a 1908 01:50:22.119 --> 01:50:25.399 church rocky, no matter how you felt about it, no 1909 01:50:25.399 --> 01:50:26.960 matter how you felt about it, if there was a 1910 01:50:27.039 --> 01:50:31.760 church that could literally track its lineage back to the 1911 01:50:31.800 --> 01:50:36.840 Apostles with documentation, does that hold any weight for you? 1912 01:50:42.119 --> 01:50:47.680 But everybody claims that No, not everyone claims that. Well, 1913 01:50:48.640 --> 01:50:51.680 I don't know. Yeah, I'm agreeing with a lot of 1914 01:50:51.720 --> 01:50:54.560 what you say about traditions and stuff, and I'm just 1915 01:50:54.600 --> 01:50:55.840 trying to learn some stuff. 1916 01:50:56.359 --> 01:50:58.279 Sure, I'm not here. 1917 01:50:58.880 --> 01:51:02.399 I'm not saying you guys are wrong and that I'm right. 1918 01:51:02.520 --> 01:51:06.479 I don't know. You guys make a lot of logical 1919 01:51:06.520 --> 01:51:08.840 and reasonable thanks. 1920 01:51:09.039 --> 01:51:13.199 I mean argument, have you ever attended. 1921 01:51:14.119 --> 01:51:16.399 Scriptures? Are logical and reasonable? 1922 01:51:17.479 --> 01:51:22.239 They are? I Have you ever attended a divine liturgy 1923 01:51:22.239 --> 01:51:29.079 at an Orthodox church? No? Okay, Well, I mean I 1924 01:51:29.119 --> 01:51:31.560 know that the panel sphere, and debating this and the 1925 01:51:31.600 --> 01:51:33.520 truth of matter and all this stuff can can lead 1926 01:51:33.600 --> 01:51:38.800 us into just like just propositional circles. But if you 1927 01:51:38.880 --> 01:51:41.119 were interested and things made sense to you, and you 1928 01:51:41.199 --> 01:51:47.000 wanted uh to experience a participat like a participatory element 1929 01:51:47.119 --> 01:51:50.720 of Orthodox Christianity. Being that both Ivan and I are 1930 01:51:50.920 --> 01:51:54.600 defending it, my my invitation to you is just go 1931 01:51:54.680 --> 01:51:58.239 and experience it, because you it's not wouldn't be about 1932 01:51:58.279 --> 01:52:00.600 debating the truth of the matter. I just just tell 1933 01:52:00.600 --> 01:52:01.640 you that there's another. 1934 01:52:02.600 --> 01:52:07.279 I'll check going out. I've been to almost other church and. 1935 01:52:08.239 --> 01:52:15.359 Make sure it's a Russian or Greek Orthodox Okay, all right. 1936 01:52:15.840 --> 01:52:18.359 Also, what I would add is tradition. 1937 01:52:18.960 --> 01:52:22.319 Okay, you can read the I'll read this really quick. Sorry, 1938 01:52:22.560 --> 01:52:25.319 easy raider eleven twenty bucks, thank you. I married a 1939 01:52:25.319 --> 01:52:28.880 Mormon girl. I converted her. I grew up without religion, 1940 01:52:29.079 --> 01:52:31.520 but after the process of joining the LDS Church, I 1941 01:52:31.520 --> 01:52:34.079 now believe in Jesus Christ, but not the church. Through 1942 01:52:34.239 --> 01:52:37.640 me learning, I have discovered Orthodoxy. He then asks, how 1943 01:52:37.680 --> 01:52:41.680 do I approach the truth with my very devout wife? 1944 01:52:42.479 --> 01:52:49.680 Very slowly and start to go and slowly but surely 1945 01:52:49.760 --> 01:52:53.600 you share your experience and the value you're getting in 1946 01:52:53.880 --> 01:52:56.359 this kind of stuff. You know, obviously, talk to your priest. 1947 01:52:56.359 --> 01:52:59.439 If you end up an easy writer Raider, start attending. 1948 01:52:59.520 --> 01:53:03.800 Don't ask people online like me necessarily, but your priest 1949 01:53:03.840 --> 01:53:05.600 will tell you the way in which you do that. 1950 01:53:05.680 --> 01:53:09.079 For me, Honestly, easy Rader, I had to, Uh, it 1951 01:53:09.119 --> 01:53:13.479 took three years. Now I just finally did my lifetime 1952 01:53:13.520 --> 01:53:18.520 confession this morning, uh for a preparation for baptism in May. 1953 01:53:19.159 --> 01:53:22.479 And Megan and I had to actually go through a 1954 01:53:22.520 --> 01:53:25.520 longer process just together because she comes from a very 1955 01:53:25.720 --> 01:53:29.520 Protestant view. I came from a mixed view in practice, 1956 01:53:29.640 --> 01:53:33.880 and it wasn't just like some simple insert like a 1957 01:53:34.079 --> 01:53:38.119 like a Legos It wasn't like a Lego set. There's 1958 01:53:38.399 --> 01:53:41.439 you have to use like patients. It is a big 1959 01:53:41.520 --> 01:53:44.000 it's a big jump, it's a culture shock, it's it's 1960 01:53:44.039 --> 01:53:46.800 a lot of things. So easier Rader, I could only say, 1961 01:53:47.159 --> 01:53:52.399 talk to your your priest as you start attending, and honestly, 1962 01:53:52.600 --> 01:53:59.159 maybe don't even anticipate contention. Maybe sometimes our anticipation of 1963 01:53:59.239 --> 01:54:03.319 contention is sometimes they just follow you, know what I mean? 1964 01:54:03.359 --> 01:54:09.760 Sometimes they just follow you. So yeah, anything that you 1965 01:54:09.800 --> 01:54:11.439 want to add on that I even being. 1966 01:54:11.960 --> 01:54:14.000 No, no, no, that that was perfect, that was perfect. 1967 01:54:14.079 --> 01:54:17.199 I wanted I wanted to address some concerns that Rocky had. 1968 01:54:18.079 --> 01:54:23.159 I mean, tradition means literally what is received. So if 1969 01:54:23.199 --> 01:54:26.800 you think about the relationship between man and God in 1970 01:54:26.880 --> 01:54:31.399 the beginning, when God created Adam, like Adam walked with God, right, 1971 01:54:31.800 --> 01:54:35.359 and the there is like a there is a loss 1972 01:54:35.359 --> 01:54:38.840 of communion. Okay, man falls, but it's not like we 1973 01:54:38.960 --> 01:54:44.720 fall and everything that man did was wrong. Right, there 1974 01:54:44.800 --> 01:54:47.720 is a progressive fall like Adam falls, but then Caine 1975 01:54:47.760 --> 01:54:56.079 falls even farther away, right, and Cane's descended, kidd, And like, 1976 01:54:57.279 --> 01:55:00.800 this means that basically there is a tradition. Let's say 1977 01:55:00.800 --> 01:55:05.319 that because if humanity had completely fallen outside let's say 1978 01:55:05.319 --> 01:55:08.880 of God, like we would have destroyed ourselves. And that 1979 01:55:09.000 --> 01:55:12.159 is what that is what the flood was meant to do. Right, 1980 01:55:12.439 --> 01:55:16.840 the flood was meant to purify mankind because things had 1981 01:55:16.880 --> 01:55:20.760 been progressively getting worse and worse. But then let's say, 1982 01:55:21.039 --> 01:55:25.720 Noah saved a kernel of that tradition of that, let's 1983 01:55:25.720 --> 01:55:30.159 say relationship with God. Now we orthodox, we believe that 1984 01:55:30.600 --> 01:55:34.199 we are saved. Let's say together because we humans, we 1985 01:55:34.279 --> 01:55:37.920 relate to each other, and we aren't like you were 1986 01:55:38.039 --> 01:55:41.039 making an emphasis on let's say call no manfather or 1987 01:55:41.079 --> 01:55:44.800 the idea that that like we we cannot have let's 1988 01:55:44.840 --> 01:55:49.279 say a human a human authority on top of us. 1989 01:55:49.640 --> 01:55:49.840 Right. 1990 01:55:50.279 --> 01:55:53.319 But the reality is that if we're in relationship with 1991 01:55:53.359 --> 01:55:57.960 one another, like, we are learning from other people constantly, 1992 01:55:58.359 --> 01:56:00.760 and the fact that we're limited means that we actually 1993 01:56:00.840 --> 01:56:05.000 need the other person to compliment us, to teach us 1994 01:56:05.000 --> 01:56:08.760 what we don't know, because we cannot approach God by ourselves, right, 1995 01:56:09.439 --> 01:56:13.279 we don't have it in us to let's say, deify ourselves. 1996 01:56:13.319 --> 01:56:16.960 We are deified. We are let's say, participating in God 1997 01:56:17.479 --> 01:56:19.199 through our relationship with other people. 1998 01:56:19.520 --> 01:56:19.720 Right. 1999 01:56:20.159 --> 01:56:25.079 And it is in that sense that the tradition fully 2000 01:56:25.560 --> 01:56:28.680 let's say it was never lost, never lost completely. Why 2001 01:56:28.720 --> 01:56:31.119 because if it was lost completely, then we would have 2002 01:56:31.199 --> 01:56:36.319 been obliterated, like if humanity had completely fallen out of 2003 01:56:36.359 --> 01:56:40.000 favor from God, like God would have like destroyed humanity 2004 01:56:40.199 --> 01:56:44.279 and started over. Why, Like God himself tells Moses, like, look, 2005 01:56:44.319 --> 01:56:47.000 you're Israelites. I can like make them out of mud 2006 01:56:47.000 --> 01:56:50.039 if they don't repent, so like go make sure and 2007 01:56:50.079 --> 01:56:52.680 then goes Moses goes down the mountain, he breaks down 2008 01:56:52.720 --> 01:56:56.000 the tablets, and he like obliterates half the camp. That 2009 01:56:56.119 --> 01:56:59.640 is like fallen into idolatry. So like God doesn't need 2010 01:56:59.680 --> 01:57:04.119 anything from us, but he knows that we need him, 2011 01:57:04.359 --> 01:57:08.479 so he allows us, let's say, to get progressively closer 2012 01:57:08.520 --> 01:57:11.359 to him or to move away from him up to 2013 01:57:11.359 --> 01:57:14.760 a certain limit. So what you're saying about not having anybody, 2014 01:57:14.880 --> 01:57:18.760 let's say, above us, it's kind of very individualistic. It's like, 2015 01:57:18.920 --> 01:57:22.039 I don't have anything above me, but I can be 2016 01:57:22.479 --> 01:57:25.840 my own head, right, And the reality is no man 2017 01:57:25.880 --> 01:57:27.760 can do that. Like if you're in if you want 2018 01:57:27.760 --> 01:57:31.119 to be consistent, then you have to admit that you 2019 01:57:31.119 --> 01:57:35.279 yourself cannot let's say, deify yourself, that you yourself cannot say, oh, 2020 01:57:35.319 --> 01:57:37.600 I've got it, because then you would be repeating what 2021 01:57:38.359 --> 01:57:41.359 Eve did. You would be repeating what Adam and Eve did, 2022 01:57:41.399 --> 01:57:45.000 which is like I'm simply grabbing, grabbing. Let's say, the 2023 01:57:45.039 --> 01:57:46.880 fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, and the 2024 01:57:46.960 --> 01:57:50.520 idea of participating in Christ's mystical body is that we 2025 01:57:50.800 --> 01:57:53.359 can eat Christ. Christ is in the place of the 2026 01:57:53.399 --> 01:57:55.439 knowledge of good and evil, but now we're taking it 2027 01:57:55.479 --> 01:57:59.039 in humility. Letting God, like you said, be our head, 2028 01:57:59.199 --> 01:58:02.479 but also through a people. Right, so the church, like 2029 01:58:02.600 --> 01:58:05.600 nobody in the church is perfect. Nobody in the church 2030 01:58:05.600 --> 01:58:07.920 says I'm perfect, because the moment you say I'm perfect, 2031 01:58:08.000 --> 01:58:11.479 I'm already a saint, you're clearly in delusion. A true 2032 01:58:11.520 --> 01:58:15.279 saint will not say, oh, I'm saved, I'm saved. I'm saved, 2033 01:58:15.319 --> 01:58:18.960 and you I have no idea, or everybody is saved. No, no, no. 2034 01:58:19.079 --> 01:58:21.840 If you say everybody saved or I'm saved, what you're 2035 01:58:21.880 --> 01:58:23.880 saying is basically, I don't have to do anything. I've 2036 01:58:23.880 --> 01:58:26.279 already got it in the bag. I don't have anything 2037 01:58:26.359 --> 01:58:29.279 more to learn like I've got it, and I don't 2038 01:58:29.279 --> 01:58:31.479 care what your opinion is. I have nothing to learn 2039 01:58:31.520 --> 01:58:33.680 from you, like you cut yourself from communion. 2040 01:58:34.239 --> 01:58:38.199 For instance, Rocky, this morning, I asked my priest about 2041 01:58:39.000 --> 01:58:42.119 to reflect on when where he was at when he converted, 2042 01:58:42.159 --> 01:58:44.920 and he laughed at me and then he said I 2043 01:58:45.439 --> 01:58:48.439 he said converted past tense. He said, I'm still converting. 2044 01:58:49.560 --> 01:58:52.840 So a perfect example of like this ongoing it's just 2045 01:58:52.880 --> 01:58:56.319 like this ongoing path. There's no like I got there. 2046 01:58:56.960 --> 01:58:59.199 I attained all the knowledge in this sort of thing. 2047 01:58:59.239 --> 01:59:01.560 But Rocky, I'm I'm glad I have to start wrapping this. 2048 01:59:01.640 --> 01:59:03.760 I'm really glad that you were open to the back 2049 01:59:03.800 --> 01:59:06.000 and forth and that you allow me to use my 2050 01:59:06.119 --> 01:59:08.960 humor to mock you. I don't know what I would 2051 01:59:08.960 --> 01:59:14.279 do without it, Rocky, consider it my weakness, but I'm 2052 01:59:14.319 --> 01:59:16.720 glad you're open to it. So wherever you are located, 2053 01:59:17.439 --> 01:59:20.119 maybe you can contact other people in your area. If 2054 01:59:20.159 --> 01:59:23.399 you want to attend a divine liturgy, just as a viewer, 2055 01:59:23.439 --> 01:59:25.239 you'll have to do nothing. You're not going to be 2056 01:59:25.520 --> 01:59:30.039 asked to do anything but observe and experience. It may 2057 01:59:30.560 --> 01:59:35.800 again make it Antiochian or Greek Orthodox. And I would 2058 01:59:35.800 --> 01:59:37.399 love for you to call back in and just tell 2059 01:59:37.479 --> 01:59:40.239 us even your concerns or things you liked it didn't like. 2060 01:59:40.399 --> 01:59:42.239 I would love to have you back on after you 2061 01:59:42.720 --> 01:59:44.199 do that and tell us all about it. 2062 01:59:46.279 --> 01:59:50.960 All right, all right, I'm gonna check it out, all right, Thanks. 2063 01:59:50.760 --> 01:59:53.960 Rocky, Ivan. Do you have anything last to say? Uh 2064 01:59:54.239 --> 01:59:55.279 before I getend the stream? 2065 01:59:55.520 --> 01:59:59.039 No, thank you for having me, Jimbob, It's always a pleasure. Congress. 2066 01:59:59.079 --> 02:00:02.000 Every cleaner, I haven't, Yvonne, you look cleaner. 2067 02:00:02.920 --> 02:00:04.840 Yeah, I've been working. I've been working a lot. 2068 02:00:05.000 --> 02:00:16.079 Okay, good? Maybe yeah, I live Northern Idaho area, Northern Idaho. Okay, 2069 02:00:16.079 --> 02:00:19.319 there's definitely something there, there's something. Someone help out, Rocky. 2070 02:00:19.720 --> 02:00:22.199 I don't know if you have a channel, help out Rocky, 2071 02:00:22.720 --> 02:00:26.119 and maybe in the comments of this video once it posts, Rocky, 2072 02:00:26.159 --> 02:00:30.399 you can check the the comments and someone will direct you. 2073 02:00:30.560 --> 02:00:33.960 Northern Idaho shouldn't have a problem finding something. 2074 02:00:34.000 --> 02:00:34.319 Okay. 2075 02:00:34.720 --> 02:00:36.399 All right, With that said, I'm gonna end a stream. 2076 02:00:36.720 --> 02:00:39.239 Take you guys down. Thank you so much, both of you. 2077 02:00:39.399 --> 02:00:44.319 Appreciate you both, and until next time, audios, God bless 2078 02:00:44.359 --> 02:00:50.199 you all, and find another location. I don't actually I 2079 02:00:50.279 --> 02:00:53.680 can do a transfer from here. I think I think 2080 02:00:54.000 --> 02:01:00.079 I might as well. There's there's five hundred something of you. 2081 02:01:00.079 --> 02:01:02.880 You. 2082 02:01:01.720 --> 02:01:07.880 You have two minutes to reach that enormous, greedy goal 2083 02:01:08.439 --> 02:01:12.760 that I put up there a red super chat. It 2084 02:01:12.920 --> 02:01:14.720 just feels nice when there's a red one in there. 2085 02:01:14.720 --> 02:01:16.840 It just makes me feel good like the Mormons, you 2086 02:01:16.920 --> 02:01:18.640 know what I mean. It makes me feel Mormon for 2087 02:01:18.680 --> 02:01:26.840 a second. All right, who do we got here? Who 2088 02:01:26.840 --> 02:01:33.880 do we have here? Who's up? Who's up for a transfer? 2089 02:01:34.800 --> 02:01:39.600 Who we got here? W in the chat for Rocky 2090 02:01:40.279 --> 02:01:42.880 saying he'll go check it out. I mean that's more 2091 02:01:42.920 --> 02:01:46.880 than I can. That's better to me than anyone understanding 2092 02:01:47.000 --> 02:01:51.880 like energy essence. Honestly, that's better for me. That's better. 2093 02:01:56.840 --> 02:02:01.039 Let's see what we got, Donovan Sharp Thorpe TV. Come on, Polo, 2094 02:02:01.359 --> 02:02:05.520 let's go to apologetics. I need them to like me 2095 02:02:05.560 --> 02:02:11.800 a little bit. Okay, Apologetics Road Tour. I'm trying to 2096 02:02:11.840 --> 02:02:14.359 win them over a little bit. Here you go, Jason 2097 02:02:14.439 --> 02:02:18.000 casselsie I actually spelt as set his name correct. It 2098 02:02:18.079 --> 02:02:21.840 seems though the higher the super chat, the better I read. 2099 02:02:21.880 --> 02:02:24.800 Have you guys noticed that, Jason Cassell, thank you huge 2100 02:02:25.199 --> 02:02:27.800 super Chat. Here you go, getting better at the grift. 2101 02:02:27.800 --> 02:02:30.479 Thank you. I really appreciate that. Shout out to Andrew 2102 02:02:31.119 --> 02:02:34.239 for teaching the ways. I don't know why he does 2103 02:02:34.279 --> 02:02:39.479 a debate instructional video. Why is he doing a debate 2104 02:02:39.560 --> 02:02:44.159 instruction video? Isn't it obvious what the instructional video needs 2105 02:02:44.159 --> 02:02:48.000 to be? Yeah, you got a good point. There, you 2106 02:02:48.039 --> 02:02:51.960 got a good point, got a grift, got a grift, 2107 02:02:54.800 --> 02:02:59.800 and you're all heading over to that other channel. Be well, 2108 02:03:00.039 --> 02:03:04.439 m God bless y'all. See you. What is it Wednesday? 2109 02:03:05.279 --> 02:03:08.319 I guess I'll see you maybe Friday, something like that. 2110 02:03:10.840 --> 02:03:25.560 You know what I mean. Ye, let's do this, but. 2111 02:03:30.279 --> 02:03:48.399 But boom boom boom boom boom. 2112 02:03:47.560 --> 02:03:50.039 Boom gay m 2113 02:03:51.560 --> 02:04:04.439 Gay boom mm gay oom mm hmm, bombs bums and