Speaker 1: Baptizing. Yeah, he's oh, this is a question. Is the
Speaker 1: canon scripture open?
Speaker 2: No, I don't think the canon is open. It was closed,
Speaker 2: you could say, in a loose sense in terms of
Speaker 2: the Sixth Ecumenical Council, the Seventh Ecumenical Council and its
Speaker 2: affirmations of Trollo and Carthage. But in the Orthodox Church
Speaker 2: there's flexibility in the sense of like tradition in the
Speaker 2: you know, proto Evangelian James, or tradition in the Book
Speaker 2: of Nach or you know. It's not the way that
Speaker 2: a Protestant thinks of the canon being closed, like there's
Speaker 2: nothing else that's quote tradition or acceptable, because the early
Speaker 2: Church is even pretty late in the game, had minor
Speaker 2: variations in what they accepted in terms of the Old
Speaker 2: and New Testament. So not in the way that a
Speaker 2: Protestant thinks. But in the Orthodox sense, yes, there's a
Speaker 2: loose in other words, even for the few books that
Speaker 2: were somewhat disputed, like the Letters of Clement, which some
Speaker 2: church fathers thought is part of the New Testament. Like
Speaker 2: we're not going to say that you're you know, if
Speaker 2: you had a tradition in your in your church, like
Speaker 2: that that you included, Oh, you're outside the church because
Speaker 2: I mean, those books are still part of the Orthodox tradition.
Speaker 2: Clement's a you know, church father and a Saint Clement
Speaker 2: of Rome, but we don't include our New Testament, and
Speaker 2: so in that sense there's flexibility. But I wouldn't call
Speaker 2: that an open canon as if there would be any
Speaker 2: new books. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a good thing to tackle Orthodox Amongst
Speaker 1: five dollars. I saw an interview with an elderly gentleman
Speaker 1: who was in Mormon. At one point he said that
Speaker 1: there were some Satanist elements with Mormonism. You want to
Speaker 1: answer to that.
Speaker 2: There are. I don't know exactly how widespread it is,
Speaker 2: but we just covered a few months ago in my
Speaker 2: podcast with Chiller Queen on my channel. She went really
Speaker 2: deep into the David Hambling case and that is a
Speaker 2: recent Mormon SR case.
Speaker 1: Yes, interesting Extangley twenty bucks. Could there ever be a
Speaker 1: situation in the present day where public divine revelation would
Speaker 1: be implemented, for example, after catastrophic, near civilization ending incidents.
Speaker 2: No, I don't see why we would need that. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think the attitude, the assumption of the New Testament
Speaker 2: and the Church Fathers is typically that we have what
Speaker 2: we need until the end and there won't be a
Speaker 2: need for new public divine revelation.
Speaker 3: I've never heard anybody argue for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Stangley is like pushing to like if
Speaker 1: there was a scenario where it was almost like you
Speaker 1: were pressured to make a declaration of what there is
Speaker 1: to do from that point on, given that it's never existed,
Speaker 1: like the conditions never existed, Like would it would it
Speaker 1: sort of like provocate something? But I don't know. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't see how that would provocate, uh, something that would
Speaker 1: be called a revelation rather than like a collective approach
Speaker 1: to how to respond to the reality that you're in,
Speaker 1: which I don't see how there would be any extra
Speaker 1: anything extra, Like Jay said, everything you need for practice
Speaker 1: we have already. Even in the circumstances that are that
Speaker 1: are dire and overwhelming and horrific, we still have what
Speaker 1: you would be prescribed as the practice of Christianity, right
Speaker 1: even if even meant death was ahead.
Speaker 2: If you read the little book from the Jordanville Monastery
Speaker 2: that's put out called Apostacy and Antichrist, which is just
Speaker 2: a collection of statements from church fathers and saints and
Speaker 2: elders about the end times. There's nothing like that in there.
Speaker 2: It's the assumption is that we have everything that we
Speaker 2: need for that time, and the Church, through the presence
Speaker 2: of the Holy Spirit in the church, will know what
Speaker 2: to do in that time.
Speaker 3: But it wouldn't require new revelations.
Speaker 1: Mmmm. Fabian five Bucks says, would you say that the
Speaker 1: marry apparitions of Magidori, Yeah, edjugory add to the public
Speaker 1: divine revelation.
Speaker 2: In the Roman Catholic system. I think you definitely could
Speaker 2: make this argument, because even though they technically believe that
Speaker 2: public divine revelation ceased with the death of John the Apostle,
Speaker 2: the practice and attitude of many Roman Catholics, even amongst
Speaker 2: the clerics, definitely treats so called Marian apparitions and fatom
Speaker 2: of visions and claims and magic glory claims like divine revelation.
Speaker 2: In fact, I would argue many Roman Catholics actually treat
Speaker 2: Mariyan stuff above scripture and divine revelation.
Speaker 1: Interesting extantly made a clarification here he said, what I
Speaker 1: I mean is if the traditions, oh, if the tradition
Speaker 1: was lost, like all knowledge of practice was lost. That
Speaker 1: wouldn't mean all people were lost, though, I guess the
Speaker 1: hypothetical extanglee would be like within let's say Orthodoxy, if
Speaker 1: if everyone died, Jay, I guess the better question is,
Speaker 1: is everyone who claimed to be Orthodox and practiced Orthodoxy,
Speaker 1: who was baptized into Orthodoxy didn't exist, but other people existed?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 5: Is that that?
Speaker 3: No, I would say.
Speaker 2: I mean, Matthew sixteen promises that the Church cannot be
Speaker 2: extinguished even to the end of the world. So when
Speaker 2: Christ returns, there will still be an episcopacy, episcope bishops
Speaker 2: that are faithful to the teaching and to the end
Speaker 2: of the world. So we agree with the Roman Catholics
Speaker 2: on that principle. Romancalics just restrict that to the papacy.
Speaker 2: We actually don't think that the papacy has given any
Speaker 2: special promises, but there will always be true, real episcopate
Speaker 2: ruling bishops to the return of Christ.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even if there were like three or so some thing.
Speaker 2: I mean, it could be extinctly reduced to a very
Speaker 2: small number in a great apostacy.
Speaker 3: That's possible.
Speaker 1: Yet, Yeah, because when I see the word tradition. I
Speaker 1: can't really separate that from the people who hold the
Speaker 1: knowledge in the history. So what is tradition If it's
Speaker 1: not that? Let me see what else I got here,
Speaker 1: Jordan five bucks. Most things I learned about Mormonism came
Speaker 1: from South Park and the musical those guys made. I
Speaker 1: appreciate you all discussing it either. It was great. Jay.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever.
Speaker 2: I've never seen the full thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so funny. It's just so funny.
Speaker 3: Does it Does it actually go into a lot of
Speaker 3: what we talked about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's more superficial. It won't get as in depth.
Speaker 1: But as far as the amount of laughter per minute turnover,
Speaker 1: it's the highest I've ever seen, including any stand up
Speaker 1: comedy I've ever seen. Oh wow, it's so funny and
Speaker 1: well executed. Well. Manuel another thirty dollars thirty paces endless
Speaker 1: celestial superchat goals. Thank you so much for that. You
Speaker 1: guys again, we're at thirty six of fifty of the
Speaker 1: next goal. I am giving Jay Dyer here half of
Speaker 1: the super chats today. Why because I'm outsourcing the knowledge
Speaker 1: of Mormonism and I'm presenting it to you guys. So
Speaker 1: he's earning his keep, so make sure you give him
Speaker 1: the grift money that he deserves for coming over here
Speaker 1: and teaching us some things. Okay. H. Brosse nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: nine For Jay, I saw that interaction with the Redhead
Speaker 1: Libertarian chick on Twitter. Libertarians are just Americanist Muslims. Interesting.
Speaker 1: I've never heard that term. Ask them an epistemic question
Speaker 1: and they just point back to what you ask them to. Justin,
Speaker 1: are you talking about who used to be like the
Speaker 1: wasn't she usually wasn't the redded Libertarian, the sort of
Speaker 1: like promoter or booker for Tim Poole? Or am I
Speaker 1: confusing though with someone else she's been on there?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think she hosted debates and stuff
Speaker 2: and we were dming and I was trying to set
Speaker 2: up a debate and then I don't know if I
Speaker 2: made her mat or what. But we've been trying while
Speaker 2: to set up various debates on there, so I'm definitely
Speaker 2: down for it. But uh, yeah, I just think that
Speaker 2: you know, as as you know, as we've talked about
Speaker 2: many times, people don't know what is meant by justifications.
Speaker 2: If you question a person's assertions as to what self evident.
Speaker 2: Enlightenment principles are rights, you know, lockey in ideas, like,
Speaker 2: you know, you ask them what's the justification for that?
Speaker 2: They think you mean in a colloquial sense, like you
Speaker 2: don't have none to back that up, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. No, that's not what justification means. Justification means
Speaker 2: j TB, etcetera. Right, So they just assume that you're
Speaker 2: saying that there's no reasonablyieve those things, and then they'll
Speaker 2: say stuff like, you know, she said something like did
Speaker 2: you read the preamble and the Declaration of Independence? And
Speaker 2: look with the look where the church fathers went through
Speaker 2: or another church, well, their church fathers went through, how
Speaker 2: does them go to?
Speaker 1: And Shapiro's church fathers are definitely the founding fathers, that's true.
Speaker 1: They they kind of work, they make basically sort of
Speaker 1: make the Constitution some sort of new divine oh yeah thing.
Speaker 1: And by the.
Speaker 2: Way, Mormons believe very similarly that like the Constitution is
Speaker 2: divinely inspired, that it's like the Mormon Church because it's
Speaker 2: in America. America's just hollowed brown and they have the
Speaker 2: what you heard me say, the White Horse prophecy. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: Mormons are going to save America in the Constitution.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's so weird, so boomery, it's like it
Speaker 1: totally is. Yeah, Aaron Cumple for ninety nine. I wanted
Speaker 1: to hear Jay's thoughts on the Seventh Day Adventism. I
Speaker 1: come from a family of SDA members in the origins
Speaker 1: of it are pretty wacky. You want to riff on
Speaker 1: that for a second.
Speaker 2: Well, again, there's no new revelations. And if that's the case,
Speaker 2: that immediately cut crosses out Ellen White because Ellen White
Speaker 2: was a charismatic. She believed in new charismatic divine revelation
Speaker 2: as all the cults tend to do, much like Joseph Smith,
Speaker 2: much like new revelations to mohamm And by the way,
Speaker 2: remember in the Hadiths, Mohammed thought he was possessed because
Speaker 2: he would fall down having these seemingly epileptic fits when
Speaker 2: he was getting his revelations, and he had to be
Speaker 2: convinced by other persons that he wasn't demonically possessed. Now,
Speaker 2: if you look at the Great Awakening, when Jonathan Edwards
Speaker 2: starts preaching his you know, sentners in the hands of
Speaker 2: an angry God, you have America's first outbreak of charismatic
Speaker 2: events where people start talking gibberish, flopping on the ground.
Speaker 2: They think they're getting possessed. So the manifestations are very
Speaker 2: similar between what is epilepsy possession and charismatic gifts.
Speaker 3: And manifestations you see.
Speaker 2: And it's no different with other cults like Seven Day
Speaker 2: Adventism in the sense that when Ellen White starts preaching
Speaker 2: her new revelation, she thinks that it's new divine revelations
Speaker 2: from the Holy Spirit. So again, if you go watch
Speaker 2: my I'm gonna clip it out because it needs to
Speaker 2: be clipped. Zechrai thirteen says in the Messianic era, there's
Speaker 2: no more prophets. Prophets are done Jude three, Jami thirteen,
Speaker 2: Dieramy eighteen, Galatians one, Relations twenty two. All these loops
Speaker 2: sixteen sixteen, all these passages make it clear that there's
Speaker 2: a finality to the work of Christ and the teaching
Speaker 2: of the apostles, such that it doesn't continue to get updates.
Speaker 2: It's done.
Speaker 1: Yeah, crash Man another two bucks JW. Believe that Michael
Speaker 1: is pre post Jesus on Earth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Michael the archangel. They think that that's Jesus.
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, why not just throw that in there.
Speaker 1: Jack ten Bucks says, jay is the energy's essence distinction,
Speaker 1: implying that the energies are distinct from God's essence. And
Speaker 1: would you consider distinction a deliberate portioning of God into
Speaker 1: composite parts.
Speaker 2: No, Just like every church father that defended the trinity,
Speaker 2: when they talk about the distinction between the hypostases the persons,
Speaker 2: they point out that a distinction between the Father and
Speaker 2: the son does not entail composition or division, and so
Speaker 2: complex unities are something that the church fathers, particularly the Cappadocians,
Speaker 2: dealt with all the time when they were refuting Aryan
Speaker 2: and Eunomian arguments about the necessity of simplicity or divine simplicity,
Speaker 2: such that if you took the Plutonian Platinus distinction or
Speaker 2: definition as to what simplicity is, Platinus says that any
Speaker 2: distinction entels composition. Well, obviously that doesn't work with the trinity.
Speaker 2: So the Cappadotionans, just from the outset, rejected that model
Speaker 2: of what simplicity is, and so they define simplicity in
Speaker 2: terms of first and foremost, God is simple because he's
Speaker 2: noncomposite and he's acts and is not acted upon. Secondly,
Speaker 2: the distinctions in God are not parts, They're not com
Speaker 2: He's not composed as if he's put together. But it
Speaker 2: is a transcendent unity that was always the case in
Speaker 2: such that the persons in dwell one another and the
Speaker 2: divine nature in dwells the person's fully in a impartial way.
Speaker 2: That it's a unique relationship in terms of the trinity.
Speaker 2: So if that's true of the hypostaces. The Cappadocians themselves
Speaker 2: also argued, as does Palamas, the distinction between God and
Speaker 2: his works, or his actions or his operations is no
Speaker 2: more a composition relationship than are the persons.
Speaker 1: Right, And just to be clear, an essence or a
Speaker 1: nature doesn't do anything, so it would never be the
Speaker 1: thing a what like if we said God, what is God?
Speaker 1: Is a different question of who is God? And how
Speaker 1: how does God act? But is there it wouldn't be
Speaker 1: one to one analogous. But isn't there a couple examples
Speaker 1: in our created reality of distinction without separation people use
Speaker 1: are like.
Speaker 2: The Cappadocian argument at this very point is if a
Speaker 2: person builds a house, right, you would think of them
Speaker 2: doing an action that involves something proper to their nature.
Speaker 2: So a human being working to build a house and
Speaker 2: put rooms and this, and that I'm the person, Jay,
Speaker 2: My nature is human nature. It's a fully human action,
Speaker 2: proper too and consistent with my nature to build a house.
Speaker 2: I'm fully present in every action and work or energy
Speaker 2: that I use to build a house. But I am
Speaker 2: not reducible to or identical to the action of building
Speaker 2: a house, nor the energy that I use to build
Speaker 2: that house. And the Cappa docs use that very argument
Speaker 2: to say that God builds or creates a world. It's
Speaker 2: the energy of creating that is proper to doing that
Speaker 2: proper to a divine being and proper to that divine nature.
Speaker 2: But that divine nature is not identical to creating a world,
Speaker 2: because if it was, you would have a modal collapse argument.
Speaker 2: Because God's essence or nature is eternal and simple and necessary,
Speaker 2: then creating would also be eternal, simple and necessary. That
Speaker 2: would deny God's free will. That's the motal collapse argument.
Speaker 2: And so God is fully present in every one of
Speaker 2: his actions or energies without being reducible to them and
Speaker 2: without having parts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good example. Jack, you're a musician. When
Speaker 1: I talk to Chase, who explained exactly what Jad did.
Speaker 1: He use the music itself in place of let's say
Speaker 1: the house argument, where you're a human and I'm a human, Jack,
Speaker 1: and we share a nature, but we don't share the
Speaker 1: same musical expression. There's a distinction between the two, and
Speaker 1: so I think once people get distinction without separation, then
Speaker 1: that question Jack, which is common. I'm sure Jay's heard
Speaker 1: it maybe fifty thousand times at this point, but for
Speaker 1: anyone who hasn't heard it, I'm glad that you did
Speaker 1: ask it, Jack, because it's an important question. Even if
Speaker 1: you have covered it seven thousand billion times like that.
Speaker 2: It's okay. And I mean where you know, there's many
Speaker 2: places in scripture. If you read the dial the debate
Speaker 2: between a dialogue between a Barlemite and Orthodox by palain Os,
Speaker 2: one of the first texts that comes up is God
Speaker 2: rested from the work of creating. There's some way in
Speaker 2: which God did a unique, specific action to create the
Speaker 2: world and then did not continue to create, because.
Speaker 1: It's not unlike the Muslim God, who it's in his
Speaker 1: nature to be ever generating, so he can't not create, correct,
Speaker 1: Like if there was a God, who's whose nature was ever.
Speaker 2: I mean, you would think that they would say that,
Speaker 2: but they don't. It's it's difficult to translate the modal
Speaker 2: collapse argument to the Muslims because they don't think of
Speaker 2: Allah as pure act, but Catholics do so. But the
Speaker 2: other passage is that we read in the scriptures that
Speaker 2: there's seven spirits of God. Nobody believes that the Holy
Speaker 2: Spirit has seven persons. There's not seven holy spirits. And
Speaker 2: yet we're told that there's the spirit of wisdom, knowledge,
Speaker 2: et cetera, and that they rested upon the Messiah when
Speaker 2: he became incarnate. And so the only way to explain
Speaker 2: the seven spirits as yet another example is to say
Speaker 2: that their energy is proper to the triad. So persons,
Speaker 2: like nobody believes they're persons, they're not creatures, because divine
Speaker 2: knowledge is not a creature. So the seven spirits, Palamos
Speaker 2: argues against Barlem have to be energies. The energies are
Speaker 2: also in the New Testament. Paul says many times over
Speaker 2: that it's the energy the Holy Spirit that are the
Speaker 2: gifts of the spirit, and First Corinthians uses the term inergaya.
Speaker 2: It's in the Greek, so it's a New Testament teaching,
Speaker 2: it's an Old Testament teaching. Likewise, this is how we
Speaker 2: have to say often right. So this is why you saw,
Speaker 2: for example, Thomas collapsing in the last few months, because
Speaker 2: they can't admit that there's the Ofphane's in the Old Testament,
Speaker 2: because in their view, God is absolutely simple. He can't
Speaker 2: be in time and space, and so they have to
Speaker 2: say that the aims of the Lord that the often
Speaker 2: is in the Old Testament Leviticus, not the glory manifest
Speaker 2: him before all Israel. They have to say, that's a creature,
Speaker 2: but it's called God's glory. God's Glory's not a creature.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Interesting, Yeah, all that. Thank you for that question though,
Speaker 1: Jack appreciate it. John Castle are so damn I keep there.
Speaker 1: I have two castles who follow me, and I just
Speaker 1: keep mistaking their names. Jason, Jason, thank you so much,
Speaker 1: very generous, whopping one hundred dollars. W's in the chat
Speaker 1: for Jason Kassel. Joseph Smith visited me last night and
Speaker 1: made me the new prophet. I was given tablets. This
Speaker 1: time they were platinum, Yeah, the heavy dense metal. This
Speaker 1: time they state sorry, guys, I was wrong become Orthodox.
Speaker 1: They are correct, it was a mistranslation. Better luck next time.
Speaker 1: Joey Schmidty, thank you so much. That's hilarious.
Speaker 2: I don't see why we couldn't, you know, have this right.
Speaker 2: I mean, if if prior revelation can be wrong, uh,
Speaker 2: why can't the new revelation also be wrong?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well it's similar, like in it's not it's not
Speaker 1: entirely similar, but it's a kind of a funny uh
Speaker 1: clapback at people who are determinists, like a Calvinist, and
Speaker 1: they ask, you know, if they ever asked me, why
Speaker 1: did I choose uh to uh become baptized in Orthodoxy,
Speaker 1: they already have the answer. I was determined to. So
Speaker 1: same thing with Muslims. I asked them. Instead of debating
Speaker 1: to the high level that I can't do anyway that
Speaker 1: Jay does with this stuff, I just asked these like
Speaker 1: more like I don't know, more broad questions to these
Speaker 1: people and say, don't you believe that Allah dictated that
Speaker 1: I reject Islam? I mean, isn't that just the fact
Speaker 1: of the matter from your view? They really have to
Speaker 1: say yes, right, So I'm like, well, why are we
Speaker 1: debating honestly, why are we debating? I mean, if you
Speaker 1: want to debate nerd stuff, go to Jay's channel. But ultimately,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna I'm just gonna hit you with that
Speaker 1: every time. L two five bucks tired of live reactions.
Speaker 1: No twenty five Christians versus Alex O'Connor would be cool.
Speaker 1: I thought he did they not do that, or I
Speaker 1: thought they did that.
Speaker 3: I thought they did too.
Speaker 1: I don't know, would you do that? Surrounded, Jubilee Jade
Speaker 1: Dier surrounded?
Speaker 2: I mean the questioners are not, from what I've seen,
Speaker 2: very high tier. So we've already we already kind of
Speaker 2: do that when we open it up to the.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the formats rushed too. That's the only thing I
Speaker 1: don't like. I like, I like that it exists, but
Speaker 1: I think of about it for me, like what's required
Speaker 1: for like a good back and forth. Yeah, it's not
Speaker 1: a pressure three to five minutes with people voting you.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just like, oh man, you're bound to
Speaker 1: make a mistake too. H Brossei four ninety nine. This
Speaker 1: is a reply to that super about Alex O'Connor. Please
Speaker 1: don't ever react to anything involving him. The Soy from
Speaker 1: his body permeates through the phone. I'm thinking you likely
Speaker 1: engage with him at some big I.
Speaker 2: Mean I've you know, I've sent so many messages and
Speaker 2: emails and it always just gets ignored. So I mean,
Speaker 2: I I even I re messaged publicly Nole's Dave Smith
Speaker 2: Ben Shapiro again today and it's just it's always going
Speaker 2: to be ignored.
Speaker 3: I've messaged at that guy many times too.
Speaker 1: I think you have too much information. I think I
Speaker 1: think that you're just your your autistic, oversized head has
Speaker 1: too much information. Because they don't, they won't be able
Speaker 1: to like go at it at the granular level with
Speaker 1: with you. So maybe they just don't. They're just like
Speaker 1: I can't do that. I'm not going to do that
Speaker 1: to my Like well.
Speaker 2: That also just from on a more practical level, like
Speaker 2: what do they gain from debating?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. That's a good way it look.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like why would even that, Like people
Speaker 1: have been trying to pressure inspiring philosophy to debate me
Speaker 1: on evolution, even if it tied into could create a
Speaker 1: Christian view accommodate a never changing Ultimately, it's a never changing,
Speaker 1: non existing human universal could that exist? It just can't.
Speaker 1: It just it's just like a complete disaster. There's nothing
Speaker 1: he could gain from debating that with someone lower on
Speaker 1: the on the notoriety scale, which surprised.
Speaker 2: Me because I think that the only way that back
Speaker 2: you know, a few years ago, that I got del
Speaker 2: Hunty and Molineu to do those debates was because enough
Speaker 2: people eventually was in their chat.
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, yeah, that's the only way.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And I also joked and I watched the
Speaker 1: who is that Greek dude? I already forgot his name?
Speaker 1: You know, he's he's a feelings based thing. We roasted
Speaker 1: him a bunch of times here on the news channel, No,
Speaker 1: the prop channel that does like the Avengers or whatever.
Speaker 1: George Jenko, Sorry, like I was, we were all laughing
Speaker 1: at one chat. I don't know if you were here.
Speaker 1: We're like, imagine Jay up there like trying to like
Speaker 1: navigate being nice and being accommodating with like losing your shit,
Speaker 1: but like how do you sit on the white couch
Speaker 1: and like, you know, you're grateful for the platform, but
Speaker 1: you're like, h like, I don't know, you know what's.
Speaker 2: Unfair about all that too, is like you and I
Speaker 2: both have many times been on media platforms where it
Speaker 2: was conversational or interview format or you know whatever, and
Speaker 2: then people act like, oh you dudes, No, I give
Speaker 2: anybody what they want out of the exchange. So if
Speaker 2: you have me on a podcast to just talk, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean I've done the streams with IP where we
Speaker 2: just went through you know, church fathers proving that they
Speaker 2: were not anti trinitarian, Like I wasn't there to debate
Speaker 2: that have to debate him. So it's not people pretend
Speaker 2: like we're these villains and the we're these awful people
Speaker 2: who don't actually just get people what they want.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean you've demonstrated on Tim Poole like you then
Speaker 1: jump in and try to do like meta attacks on
Speaker 1: all of these things, even though you could probably see
Speaker 1: the assumptions a million miles away that you can challenge.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know how to play on the particular
Speaker 1: platform you're on. There are some rules there. If you
Speaker 1: want to be invited back, you're not going.
Speaker 2: To do this.
Speaker 1: Put the stick in the spoke of the wheel. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's not good for anyone.
Speaker 2: Ran right, like if Ruslan and he said, oh, you
Speaker 2: can come on the podcast Okay, I would be fine
Speaker 2: coming on there to do it a debate formal or informal,
Speaker 2: or just have a conversation another like, I don't demand debates.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like people think that when you ask would you
Speaker 2: like to do this? Then they get but hurt and
Speaker 2: then they act like you're this villain. It's like, well, we.
Speaker 1: Don't have to do that. Yeah, you could just do
Speaker 1: it conversation. David Murdoch art ten dollars. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Look up Mormonism, Shadow or Reality by Gerald and Sandra
Speaker 1: tan or X. Mormon's books is seven hundred pages tons
Speaker 1: of content. They made a pdf available online free under
Speaker 1: creative comments. Yeah, the people who leave and sort of
Speaker 1: expose the extra stuff you might not see is kind
Speaker 1: of fascinating. Honestly. Maybe the best thing with that is,
Speaker 1: like have someone like that on to tell tell the
Speaker 1: tales right directly. So Justin says I can be baptized
Speaker 1: to whiteness. Well, Justin, you're only like, what are you
Speaker 1: like thirty one percent black? I'm not sure. I don't
Speaker 1: you wouldn't.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they tripled that like Obama level.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I don't even know if you count
Speaker 1: honestly with your own L two A two bucks will
Speaker 1: Jay's live stream. Yeah, he said he's gonna clip it
Speaker 1: and make it.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm a clip just a fifteen minute a part,
Speaker 2: but it's it's posted as a member's talk.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, go get a membership over at Jay's. Again,
Speaker 1: we're at four. We got eleven to hit the goal here, folks, again,
Speaker 1: fifty one minutes, plenty of time to do it. But
Speaker 1: just so you know, half of the donations today the
Speaker 1: super chats will go to Jay for his autistic level.
Speaker 2: You want to see if Jack wants to come on
Speaker 2: the debate, because this guy's asking like totally ridiculous stuff.
Speaker 1: Oh is this it? Okay? Jack says for another ten
Speaker 1: there's some greatest and orthodox commenters on YouTube. What do
Speaker 1: you mean commenters? Commentators are commenters that break down the
Speaker 1: growing tide of false catech humans. I'm not sure what
Speaker 1: that means, a false catechumen. There's a great video showing
Speaker 1: some clown and is endorsing wicka Phase calling.
Speaker 2: Me the clown because I was friends with Wickiphase, so
Speaker 2: I got Wickiphase to.
Speaker 3: Get an Orthodox study Bible.
Speaker 2: And these people are just pretending like I'm some sort
Speaker 2: of secret WICCA, even though we've done countless podcasts against WICCA.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yeah. To be fair on the internet,
Speaker 1: there's going to be tons of subversive activity people who
Speaker 1: I mean, Jay, You've caught people on this multiple times
Speaker 1: where you say when did you when did you get baptized?
Speaker 1: Or where whatever? Whatever the pointed question.
Speaker 2: He's saying that I'm a false teacher, creating false Cindy
Speaker 2: of Cumans.
Speaker 3: He's talking about me.
Speaker 2: I'm the clown that he's talking about, but he doesn't
Speaker 2: want he's trying to be funny.
Speaker 1: Okay, is that I don't know if Jack, can you
Speaker 1: affirm that that's what you're pointing to because it's from
Speaker 1: the Diamond. Yeah, but that's silly Jack, if that's the case,
Speaker 1: because I'm Jay is largely influential in You're fake fake, Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know. There was nothing fake about the two
Speaker 1: hours of Lifelong Confessions I just did this morning. Piano didn't.
Speaker 1: That's just piano Dean five bucks. There's a clip of
Speaker 1: Mike Wallace asking h Who's Mike Wallace asking Mormon prophet
Speaker 1: Gordon Hinckley about the black people think and his answer
Speaker 1: is a total cop out. Well, I figured it's hard
Speaker 1: to Yeah, yeah, that's a hard thing to engage with,
Speaker 1: that one to defend. I mean, it's so brutal that
Speaker 1: the two thirds who stayed neutral in the vote in
Speaker 1: the in the celestial vote got doomed. They're they're saying
Speaker 1: you're doomed. You're doomed with your skin DCMS nine ninety nine.
Speaker 1: Big love for Jim, Jim, Bob and Jay. Notice more
Speaker 1: Mormons in the UK lately stopped twice by missionaries last month.
Speaker 1: Don't get the appeal. It's one of the more obvious
Speaker 1: BS cults. Well, Jay and I briefly talked on why
Speaker 1: it is that's that's appealing. If it's feelings based, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's the level at which you're pursuing or inquiring
Speaker 1: about it, whether or not a theology or a church
Speaker 1: is true. I mean, you're gonna get caught up in
Speaker 1: a lot of different stuff if it's if it's just
Speaker 1: feeling space, which I'm that's unfortunate. Extendally at ten Bucks,
Speaker 1: I didn't know LDS was so wild. I didn't know either.
Speaker 1: Now I see where Brandon Sanderson gets all his imagination from.
Speaker 1: It is pretty wild. Every time I was texted, I
Speaker 1: told you before I'm about to edit a cartoon, and
Speaker 1: I was just like kind of trying to source from
Speaker 1: people who are knowledgeable the most ridiculous things about Mormonism,
Speaker 1: and Jay was texting me things and I thought he
Speaker 1: was messing with me. I thought, I was like, this
Speaker 1: guy's messing with me, and he was like, no, no,
Speaker 1: these are these are legitimate things that they actually hold to. Spireau,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your Canadian twenty dollars third
Speaker 1: generation x JW. Here for thirty plus years. Wow, saw
Speaker 1: everything there was to see in that religion was all involved,
Speaker 1: top to bottom. If you ever want to do a
Speaker 1: JW stream and need info, I got you and then
Speaker 1: some have debated a few too. That's that's interesting. I
Speaker 1: didn't know that about you, Spiro or Spireau. I didn't
Speaker 1: know that that that was your thirty years of experience. Wow.
Speaker 1: The Kraken five Bucks Journal of Discourses, page two eighty
Speaker 1: nine says no man in this dispensation will ever enter
Speaker 1: into the celestial Kingdom of God without the consent of
Speaker 1: Joseph Smith. Can you still get consent? That's the other
Speaker 1: question I have. Jay is like, do they engage with
Speaker 1: Joseph Smith in some weird way today, Like is there
Speaker 1: like a method to them now sort of participating if
Speaker 1: you will, with Joseph himself. I didn't get that so far.
Speaker 2: You mean, like does he speak to them or yeah,
Speaker 2: like do.
Speaker 1: They interact with him? Do they try to? Like is
Speaker 1: there a thing?
Speaker 3: I've not heard that? But I mean he might appear
Speaker 3: in a vision who does well?
Speaker 1: Who knows? Yeah, h rowsy five bucks? No, No, not dash.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the Jehovah witness chick. Oh before he
Speaker 1: asked about this, that Jehovah Witness check. You asked you
Speaker 1: a question and didn't have an answer for when you
Speaker 1: were younger. Those are more recent streams Jehovah witnesses.
Speaker 2: This is when I was like eighteen, like I was
Speaker 2: just what got me into apologetics was just when I
Speaker 2: was like eighteen and some Joe's Witness girl asked me
Speaker 2: about Versus and I didn't know what they meant because
Speaker 2: she was teaching that, you know, Jesus is a creature,
Speaker 2: He's not some of god.
Speaker 1: Weird sis and urcane five bucks. If you become quote
Speaker 1: God in the Mormon sense, you get all the green
Speaker 1: yellow and decaffeinated soda you want. I mean it is
Speaker 1: it's like it's like it's like modern consumerist Islam, so
Speaker 1: they just swap out the products.
Speaker 2: That's a good question, Like do you get to like
Speaker 2: bypass the absurd legalisms if you're a god?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that's just it's insane. Rocky Shepherd five Bucks.
Speaker 1: I think we are in Satan's Little Reason of Revelations
Speaker 1: twenty seven through eight. The tribe of Millennial Rain are over.
Speaker 1: I don't know about that. No, nothing unknown TSJ five Bucks,
Speaker 1: E Joey Smith, Joey Smith, New Jersey Italian mobster. Have
Speaker 1: you guys seen the South Park episode about Joey Boy?
Speaker 1: Kind of funny? I didn't see that. I think I
Speaker 1: need to get caught up on South Bark. I don't
Speaker 1: know why it's hard for me to watch things, honestly,
Speaker 1: I can't. Is there anything you watch, Jay that's like
Speaker 1: consistent where you're like, that's my thing, I watch that,
Speaker 1: you're all?
Speaker 2: I mean, I kind of Jamie and I kind of
Speaker 2: cycle through some of the same shows that we've watched.
Speaker 2: So the most recent show that we watched was Parks
Speaker 2: and rec because I never finished it. Back when it
Speaker 2: was on. I got all the way up to like
Speaker 2: season four, So I mean, I appreciate that it's pretty funny.
Speaker 2: But other than that, I mean Mystery Science Theater, X File,
Speaker 2: psych Riff tracks about It's about what I watch.
Speaker 1: You've ever watched something that's just like so horrifically bad
Speaker 1: just for the sake of seeing how cringe it is?
Speaker 1: Like you know, Paradise Island, you know like those Yeah,
Speaker 1: we watched shows. Yeah, so those are like it's like
Speaker 1: a week week spot for me where I'm just like,
Speaker 1: can I see Because there's always these like sort of
Speaker 1: dating slash. I guess you would call them experiments, like
Speaker 1: actual social experiments. Right, They're kind of weird, but you
Speaker 1: just can't look away. Uh tears, sword arm ten bucks.
Speaker 1: Mormons believe that there are more religious than everyone else. Right.
Speaker 1: Their final retreat is when all historical arguments and logic
Speaker 1: fail them, as by their fruits, yay shall know them.
Speaker 1: I don't know how they get into it, dude, I
Speaker 1: don't know how you I can see how people are
Speaker 1: raised Mormon and leave I can't. I still can't. I'm
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how someone actually just goes Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm wanna go in. I'm gonna go in. From what
Speaker 1: I heard, I don't know. Ask a couple questions. It's done,
Speaker 1: big cheese. Five bucks. Are you guys familiar with the
Speaker 1: huge amount of land the LDS, Yes, land buys it.
Speaker 1: In fact, Jay just did a stream where he covered
Speaker 1: the influence was it the CIA and other things? That
Speaker 1: was it?
Speaker 2: The same how of it? But I mean, yeah, we
Speaker 2: talked to I just sort of stream on them being
Speaker 2: a giant corporation and hedgephon.
Speaker 1: Four hundred acres. Yeah, I mean four hundred thousand acres.
Speaker 1: If you're seen as a corporation, that's kind of what
Speaker 1: you would do. You just like make your religion a
Speaker 1: set of assets and and you know, from that view,
Speaker 1: why wouldn't you If you can get people to believe
Speaker 1: that theology. I'm they're not going to be suddenly surprised
Speaker 1: by a corporate structure. I don't. I don't see why
Speaker 1: they would bend five bucks, corn ob X, the Great
Speaker 1: Divine Bang check mark. I like this new format, Ben,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that the X and the check mark
Speaker 1: President Sandown are five bucks. Let's be honest. Your shoulders
Speaker 1: are normal. It's your huge that's what I argue. I say,
Speaker 1: I have a TV head, it's not my shoulders. My
Speaker 1: friends disagree. They actually say, well, no, you got. It's
Speaker 1: kind of a bad combination of both. I basically have
Speaker 1: the silhouette of Peter English. Unfortunately, uh, George ten Bucks.
Speaker 1: With these cults, it seems like people in leadership inherit
Speaker 1: great wealth and an organization and assume they must be
Speaker 1: doing something right. JW jws also have a lot of
Speaker 1: property investments worldwide. Yeah, there's nothing actually you mentioned this
Speaker 1: on your stream, Jay, that was nothing actually wrong with
Speaker 1: the ownership of things. It's just that it's the the
Speaker 1: identity of the corporation is indistinguishable from the church, right,
Speaker 1: that's the.
Speaker 2: Churches are corporations. They have a host of shell corporations
Speaker 2: and hedge.
Speaker 1: Funds right right.
Speaker 3: And the megachurches model that same structure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it works for people, for the for the people, you'd,
Speaker 1: I guess you'd call them weird faux parishioners justin Henley
Speaker 1: five bucks. According to the Hadith, some seventy of one's
Speaker 1: wives are plucked from the lake of fire. Well, you
Speaker 1: can pick your you know, picked from the fire. So
Speaker 1: two quote good Muslima and seventy purified Kafirs. Yeah, the hadiths.
Speaker 1: You've debated so many Muslims. Some of them go, well, no,
Speaker 1: the hadiths are these secondary set of things that people wrote.
Speaker 1: They don't have to all make sense to No.
Speaker 2: I mean many of the if it's sahiblhari, they have
Speaker 2: to believe it because those are strong. Oh. Interesting, see
Speaker 2: there are classes of them. There's weak ones and strong ones.
Speaker 2: But you don't if you're sunny, you don't get to say,
Speaker 2: oh I don't believe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you can't a raw dog five dollars. Have
Speaker 1: you seen Ron Wyatt's video about testing the blood of
Speaker 1: Jesus from the shroud? If so, what are your fast
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that. I haven't covered the shroud thing
Speaker 1: at all. I have no access or knowledge.
Speaker 3: I just don't find any stuff convincing. I don't like.
Speaker 2: This is like the domain of like Roman Catholics just
Speaker 2: love this stuff. They go create trap.
Speaker 1: Honestly, if you double down on that stuff and then
Speaker 1: you suddenly act upon it in all these new ways
Speaker 1: and it turns out to be like something fake or
Speaker 1: something doubtful about it, you're kind of you kind of
Speaker 1: put all your eggs into like this, like one little
Speaker 1: it shouldn't.
Speaker 2: But the blood, like what is going if he's fully human,
Speaker 2: testing the blood is not going to show anything anyway.
Speaker 1: It's just dumb, right right. It doesn't tell you much
Speaker 1: at all. Bobby C. Five bucks. Can Mormons establish their
Speaker 1: own morality quote if they achieve godhood and create morality?
Speaker 1: That's another good question about it. I didn't even think about, like, well,
Speaker 1: who of the gods? Being that there's endless gods, is
Speaker 1: the ultimacy of of.
Speaker 2: Well, this is the classic critique of polytheism, right, So
Speaker 2: if you read Adgentees by Saint Athanasius, one of the
Speaker 2: critiques he makes is this point where he says, I mean,
Speaker 2: if the gods are all competing and fighting each other,
Speaker 2: there is no universal standard of the good, or of
Speaker 2: the true or of morals. It's just conflicting power structures
Speaker 2: and whatever is in power. So ultimate is kind of
Speaker 2: chaos is what rules?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, And it's kind of like that if morality
Speaker 1: from a Christian view, morality is is is bound to God.
Speaker 1: It's not a set of propositions separate from God like
Speaker 1: a list. And if it's the nature of God, that's good.
Speaker 2: Somebody is saying Mormons believe in an eternal law that
Speaker 2: God is subjected to. Right, then it wouldn't be God, right,
Speaker 2: so would be God?
Speaker 3: Where does that come from?
Speaker 2: Who established that? Exactly? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So that's again the problem of nature. What what does
Speaker 1: it mean to be the nature of God? Mormonism? They
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly tell you the distinction of the nature of God,
Speaker 1: being that everyone can be the nature of God, but
Speaker 1: they aren't currently the nature of God?
Speaker 6: What's that?
Speaker 1: What's that transition right between? They're basically true, They're like
Speaker 1: Truon's They're like I.
Speaker 2: And also where do you get that from?
Speaker 3: How do you know?
Speaker 2: Because number one, remember the Bible's corrupted, So once again
Speaker 2: we have to go to just what Joseph Smith says
Speaker 2: is what divine nature is?
Speaker 1: That's it right? Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And do they hold that he became a god? I
Speaker 1: mean obviously they would have to say, like he became.
Speaker 3: The That's a good question. I mean it seems like
Speaker 3: they would have to say that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Presidents sundown are five bucks. Have you ever noticed
Speaker 1: that much Protestant sounds like protests?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, gravy, gravy. Yeah, I bring that up with Protestants
Speaker 1: that their identity is against something and is not a
Speaker 1: positive claim for It's kind of a it's like an
Speaker 1: atheist similar in their position. Enzo nine ninety nine says nothing,
Speaker 1: thank you so much, Extangle five bucks. What I mean
Speaker 1: is if, oh, yeah, I read that David Murdoch j
Speaker 1: the judge b y you alumni just dismissed most of
Speaker 1: Hambley's charges with prejudice now ag withholding information.
Speaker 2: Right, So the Hamblin case about the SRA satanic stuff.
Speaker 3: Was covered up.
Speaker 1: Interesting, ben five bucks. J. Andrew always speaks highly of you.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on his debate style? Is there
Speaker 1: anything you disagree with him on that you could that
Speaker 1: you would debate? I'm on it.
Speaker 2: I think there are people who do these super chats
Speaker 2: and they're constantly try to get me to debate Andrew.
Speaker 2: I think they're doing it on purpose, because I got
Speaker 2: people saying Andrew wants to debate you, and then I
Speaker 2: went and talked to Andrew and He's like, no, I
Speaker 2: never said that. So I just think this is like
Speaker 2: people trying to start.
Speaker 1: They try to Yeah, they try to do that a
Speaker 1: lot of people do that with me. President sun Down
Speaker 1: A four ninety nine, Tristana says Jay is a slanderer.
Speaker 3: Tristana, that is true.
Speaker 2: And Tristana is also a member of the Haggard family.
Speaker 2: And if you remember, the most famous gay meth evangelical
Speaker 2: pastor is a.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Tristan Haggard. I hope you're doing well.
Speaker 1: H brossy five dollars. Thoughts on this trend of women
Speaker 1: across women across social media feeling the need to tell
Speaker 1: stories for the sole cause of embarrassing their husband. It's weird.
Speaker 1: It might be just like a a.
Speaker 2: Product of the like a Reddit product, like a Reddit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like.
Speaker 3: I think Reddit is just total cancer that needs to go.
Speaker 1: Oh man, it's really bad. And I tried Jay to
Speaker 1: even follow like what orthodox Christian read it is.
Speaker 3: The word now that's run by like total like.
Speaker 1: Five bucks. Yesterday I confused John Cassal with Jason. I
Speaker 1: constantly do it. He corrected me and said, it happens
Speaker 1: a few times a week. It's really hard to catch
Speaker 1: that for me, dude. Justin Henley gifted one membership and
Speaker 1: you guys, uh three more super chats. And I don't
Speaker 1: want to take too much of Jay's time just reading chats,
Speaker 1: and we'll close it out with some conclusions about Mormonism
Speaker 1: and let you all on your way. Being that it's
Speaker 1: reaching almost three hours. Uh flane ten dollars. Flain Mez
Speaker 1: says a lot of quote Cain worshippers here in Texas
Speaker 1: Caine worshippers. Is that the same as Bigfoot? Are you
Speaker 1: referring to Bigfoot?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I don't know what that means.
Speaker 1: I think I'm a Bigfoot reference bag Milk thirteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1: More Jimbob and Jay streams please. Yeah, we we like
Speaker 1: to focus on what a good topic once in a while.
Speaker 2: We will know that that one of us on dispensationalism
Speaker 2: on Twitter. I've shared that in a lot of big
Speaker 2: threads and that has like seventy eighty almost eighty thousand.
Speaker 1: Now, oh that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, that was a good stream.
Speaker 1: That was thorough. I hope I actually wanted to ask
Speaker 1: you about that. Is like being that mainstream media isn't
Speaker 1: really designed for long form summaries of things like that,
Speaker 1: and you really do need some good chunk of time
Speaker 1: to get into that. And I was wondering, like if
Speaker 1: you were to get on like with like Tucker or
Speaker 1: or anyone bigger and you could actually talk about dispensationalism.
Speaker 1: My view is that dispensationalism is the way in which
Speaker 1: you can talk about Zio issues and without it being
Speaker 1: so bagel driven and focused. It's a way around it.
Speaker 1: If you will, ironically a lay around it, you can
Speaker 1: talk about this. My question to you is, Jay, if
Speaker 1: you were to be on a massive channel and you
Speaker 1: were to cover dispensationalism in like topics, what's the first
Speaker 1: section you would cover? If that was your task on
Speaker 1: a big on a big channel, I'd probably.
Speaker 2: Just immediately go to the clearest passages like Matthew twenty one,
Speaker 2: the Kingdom of God will be taken from you, given
Speaker 2: to a nation producing the fruits thereof Roman's eleven Jews
Speaker 2: grafted out, gentles, grafted in one covenant, one tree, one
Speaker 2: one thing to be grafted into or out of not
Speaker 2: too dual covenant things. I would talk about the history
Speaker 2: of the church, essentially never teaching this until Schofield and Derby,
Speaker 2: so I would try to get that like the big
Speaker 2: points first.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's uh, because it seems to be
Speaker 1: like it's something that's kind of talked about a little bit,
Speaker 1: but I don't think people understand how it like sort
Speaker 1: of like, uh, it's just so palpable.
Speaker 2: It is, especially in America. I mean all this like
Speaker 2: you know the Rapture, you know, what's the Hayes thing
Speaker 2: that had the big book series, that had a cage
Speaker 2: in the movie Left Behind. You know, all that stuff
Speaker 2: is just like propaganda for that stuff.
Speaker 1: And it's so easy. I mean that dummy you debated
Speaker 1: who thought the Apostles went to college, he's a perfect
Speaker 1: example of like what it produces. Whether he's like, it's
Speaker 1: just like at this point, you know, people are like, oh,
Speaker 1: that guy has to be a paid plant. And I
Speaker 1: think we covered this before in a previous stream. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't need it, Like you can have that. I'm
Speaker 1: sure it exists, but do you really need to pay
Speaker 1: someone to be a plant? If you could actually just
Speaker 1: produce people like that?
Speaker 2: There's funny of people that don't know.
Speaker 1: You don't need You don't even need it. As much
Speaker 1: as I want the plant theory to be true about
Speaker 1: a lot of things as a plant, Mormonism to a
Speaker 1: cultism to orthodox pipeline is real. What do you think
Speaker 1: the most direct pipeline is to Orthodoxy.
Speaker 2: J Well, you know, it's funny because I would say,
Speaker 2: back in twenty eight teen seventeen, it seemed like most
Speaker 2: of the converts that we would see and that we
Speaker 2: were interacting with on a regular basis in the discord
Speaker 2: were Roman Catholics, especially traditional Catholics. Then that kind of
Speaker 2: faded out, and then it seemed like it's been more
Speaker 2: and more people coming from either the hippie DMT psychosphere
Speaker 2: to Orthodoxy or the Protestant world. It seems like the
Speaker 2: last few years it's really been way more Protestants can
Speaker 2: bring orthodox than Catholics.
Speaker 3: Because I feel like Catholics who were going to.
Speaker 2: Convert, who were willing and open kind of already have
Speaker 2: and you've just got the hangers on who are just
Speaker 2: so entrenched and deluded in Papism that they just they're
Speaker 2: not going to leave it unless something even crazier happens,
Speaker 2: which it will, I'm sure in the near future. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it seems like a lot more Protestants and Evangelicals in
Speaker 2: the last and hence, you know, you had Redeemed Zoomer
Speaker 2: saying my discords are converting. You know, James White's fussing
Speaker 2: again yesterday the whole thing yesterday saying that you know
Speaker 2: how bad I am. You had Joel Weebun and all
Speaker 2: his crew to an entire podcast. Why are people leaving
Speaker 2: processes of Orthodoxy? Seems like the you know, hemorrhaging is
Speaker 2: happening in the Protestant world now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's interesting. I would I would assume it's
Speaker 1: mostly men leading the charge who are converting, but if
Speaker 1: there are women by their side. I always find it
Speaker 1: interesting how interact and experience Orthodoxy. Like the man, the
Speaker 1: reason minded, philosophically based is kind of pulled into it.
Speaker 1: Even though the philosophical is important, it's not the wholeness
Speaker 1: obviously of the faith and the practice. But it definitely
Speaker 1: played a huge part for me and a lot of
Speaker 1: people know. But it's interesting to see, like the experience
Speaker 1: with women where they follow their husbands or fiances into
Speaker 1: it and what they gain from it and their reasoning
Speaker 1: is a little bit different than than the man. It
Speaker 1: would be interesting to see what percent of this new
Speaker 1: sort of surge of converts are men and women. Obviously
Speaker 1: it's men dominant, but men.
Speaker 3: But yeah, like at our live events, there's a lot
Speaker 3: of guys with their girlfriend's fiance wives, so you know,
Speaker 3: we can see a section of women. They're there.
Speaker 2: My audience is ninety percent dudes, ten percent women, So
Speaker 2: I think that'll happen. It's like in the case with Dasha,
Speaker 2: she was like, well, my husband or my fiance is orthodox.
Speaker 2: I'm like just for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. Yeah, that was actually refreshing to hear.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what her ultimate position was. Once she
Speaker 1: said that, I was like, oh, okay, this is basically
Speaker 1: kind of sordid. There's nothing Jay needs to really do
Speaker 1: much more of tb or tybee ten dollars. I love
Speaker 1: this team up. Should happen? Should be a weekly thing?
Speaker 1: Well maybe, I mean maybe bi weekly. I mean, we
Speaker 1: could definitely do more streams.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're one of my favorite people to stream with.
Speaker 2: You know, Tristana's retired because he can't handle all the
Speaker 2: success that I've had with music and rap, and so
Speaker 2: there's an intense amount of jealousy that led him to retire.
Speaker 2: So you know, I'm always open for more streams.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, just uh President sundown or another five bucks?
Speaker 1: Why is Mormonism so big? With Polly's all the tongans
Speaker 1: and samoans, I played football with were Mormons? Well interesting,
Speaker 1: I went to Hawaiian and it was it was loaded
Speaker 1: with Mormons too.
Speaker 2: Really, so I guess they have like a they've set
Speaker 2: up a lot of ye stuff down there.
Speaker 1: Yep, they took it. Saw even some in the elevator.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you guys are here doing the thing. Huh.
Speaker 1: They're like, let's go for the Well, well, you said
Speaker 1: it before, not to not to disparage against against Hawaiian
Speaker 1: people or Polynesians or whatever it is, like you said,
Speaker 1: they Mormonism does rely on sort of maybe the people
Speaker 1: who don't who aren't have full who don't have full
Speaker 1: access to everything. Let's say, so an island would be
Speaker 1: historically a perfect example of isla.
Speaker 2: Those witnesses and Mormons all can prey upon less educated people's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a it's key testicular tactics. Two dollars.
Speaker 1: I lived in Utah. Their favorite soda is mountain dew,
Speaker 1: that caffeine lade. It might not he does that.
Speaker 3: It's spelling point.
Speaker 1: It doesn't spray or is it sprite that doesn't.
Speaker 2: Spe doesn't I think Jerome.
Speaker 1: Six ninety nine. The Mormons have much capital. They might
Speaker 1: be the one secretly pulling all the strings illuminate confirm. Well,
Speaker 1: if there's anyone who's gonna know or expose that, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be Jay. So you know, pray for him because
Speaker 1: if if they're as powerful as we we kind of
Speaker 1: fantasize that they are, you know, Jay's is in danger basically,
Speaker 1: so Seth Garrett twenty bucks, God bless, I gotta go
Speaker 1: see you later. Thank you so much, Marcus Antonio, five
Speaker 1: gifted memberships, Ben five bucks. Here was a super chat
Speaker 1: from Zimmerman and Jessica. Whoever donate ask to thank you
Speaker 1: so much for that spirit on fifteen bucks nothing Ben
Speaker 1: four nine, we won, thank you for that. Anglo Orthodoxy
Speaker 1: five bucks. Mormons don't have a deity as such. They
Speaker 1: have individuals parentheses gods. Yeah, yeah, they just have a
Speaker 1: bunch of particular people hanging out of their table and
Speaker 1: they're like, well, who's gonna win, let's vote, So voting
Speaker 1: voting gods is wild. A bunch of voting gods with
Speaker 1: their hands raised, so weird. The cold quest That means
Speaker 1: that they don't have shared wills, not that that's the
Speaker 1: biggest problem, but not that you need even that. But
Speaker 1: that's just another thing there, cold quest, five bucks, what's
Speaker 1: your opinions on someone like Wes Huff who's smart, still
Speaker 1: falling for the dispensationalism hoax? Would love to see him
Speaker 1: debate it.
Speaker 2: I mean we tried.
Speaker 3: I actually reached out to one of his buddies.
Speaker 2: He has a buddy who's becoming Orthodox, and that guy
Speaker 2: was trying to get west up to do the tencast
Speaker 2: debate with me Michael Knowles, Tim Gordon, and west Hoff,
Speaker 2: and west Hoff said no, Michael Knowles doesn't want to
Speaker 2: do it obviously, So man.
Speaker 1: That would have been a blast.
Speaker 3: I know, I would like the best debate if we
Speaker 3: got those, all three of those.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's too high tier. I've I've been suggesting recently
Speaker 1: that maybe we should get Nathan Rager up with you.
Speaker 1: But it's but you could just as well be Randy
Speaker 1: Balls and debate Nathan Rager. Have you you've seen Nathan
Speaker 1: Rager now that one of your characters. No, No, I wish,
Speaker 1: I wish. I actually want to quit satire because I
Speaker 1: didn't even come up with this here. I'm sure I'm
Speaker 1: sure you've seen this Jay now that once you see
Speaker 1: the person's face, where is it? Dude, Nathan Is. That
Speaker 1: is Nathan Rager. He actually stands outside of an orthodox.
Speaker 2: All that Baptist guy with.
Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah and the big like pandle Mar. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I knew there's no way you didn't know who that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we covered him on the Megachurch stream, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I figured ten bucks, no doubt. There are some
Speaker 1: figs trying to stir up drama between you guys. If
Speaker 1: there's an issue, it goes without saying, you handle it privately. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you always go private first. If you ever hear someone's
Speaker 1: doing something saying something, you just reach out and go,
Speaker 1: hey whatever. Joey Valencia two dollars, Jay thoughts on The
Speaker 1: Chosen Show. I actually watch that.
Speaker 3: I haven't watched it.
Speaker 1: SoRs five bucks. Jay, you have any musical advice for
Speaker 1: Jim Bobby LARPs as a musician, but he could obviously
Speaker 1: use the help from a superior artist. Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 2: If you want to get zorched and gifted, he can.
Speaker 2: You can go watch my Mystery Science Theater rich Tract
Speaker 2: stream that we just did a couple of nights ago.
Speaker 2: Max Night, Ultra Spy. I piggyback to your twenty.
Speaker 1: K oh Yeah, yeah, I sent people celebrating.
Speaker 2: My Twitter almost one k so I'm still I'm still
Speaker 2: not there, but uh no, I think Jim Bob's gonna
Speaker 2: also probably just get jealous like Tristan and he's going
Speaker 2: to retire because I'm pretty much the hottest rapper on
Speaker 2: the scene.
Speaker 3: I'm about to open up for rip Rafts.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's awesome. Speaking of events, that looked really good.
Speaker 1: You just retweeted Sam Hides doing a boomer thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Our next episode is a boomers that was fun
Speaker 2: to write about. Hopefully he'll use some of my jokes.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think they're filming that in a couple
Speaker 2: of days.
Speaker 1: So remember for thirty one months. Well, Emmanuel says, is
Speaker 1: this the same short break quote from Superchats after the animation,
Speaker 1: not complaining it's great, Well, this was a short break,
Speaker 1: But it turns out you guys reached both goals. For
Speaker 1: the sake of my time in Jay's and the value
Speaker 1: we we just gave you, thank you so much celebration
Speaker 1: in order thank you. I really appreciate that, and I
Speaker 1: just I knew that to honor the Superchats you have
Speaker 1: to read them. That's why you guys send them. So
Speaker 1: if it takes time, it takes time, and I think
Speaker 1: this might be the last one abe nine nine nine
Speaker 1: and found a Jim Bob video suggested video through JA.
Speaker 1: Thank you both. Currently EO Catechumen to be received at Pasca.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for that.
Speaker 2: More fake converts more fake.
Speaker 1: I didn't know, Jay, We're already at three, but it
Speaker 1: is stream yard, so I don't know. If you want
Speaker 1: to take two calls one, it doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 1: You could sind whatever you're doing, whatever, okay, if there's
Speaker 1: anyone to call in again, oppositional first. I don't want
Speaker 1: people just hanging out, you know, and this isn't an
Speaker 1: a bar. I would happily have a beer with you,
Speaker 1: but oppositional first. Please, I'm gonna put it in the chat.
Speaker 1: If we can get one or two, great, If not,
Speaker 1: we'll close out the show.
Speaker 3: Maybe you can even get a Mormon in here.
Speaker 1: I could get a Mormon, any Mormons, I mean, first
Speaker 1: and foremost, get a Mormon in here. I would love it.
Speaker 1: But if there's anything, you know, Jay's a very attackable person.
Speaker 1: He's an open target for everyone, and so he's used
Speaker 1: to it anyway, so so you might as well take
Speaker 1: the take him up on it. There's the chat again.
Speaker 1: No agreement. I don't care about your agreement. Love you,
Speaker 1: but I just don't. We don't want to sit around
Speaker 1: and agree with you. Anybody. There's it's it's in the chat. Okay,
Speaker 1: there there's the stream yard link. Do it if you dare.
Speaker 1: I'll just be here watching, just be here watching nothing anybody.
Speaker 1: And we got to turn on the background music.
Speaker 2: You had a Mormon dude in your show yesterday when
Speaker 2: he in the chat, somebody Mormon yapping it up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a couple. I just can't tell if their
Speaker 1: trolls or not because these wild names, you know, like
Speaker 1: full bring them young, full sentences. I don't. I'm so
Speaker 1: naive to I believe everyone. It's just the worst thing.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, do you want to talk about it? There?
Speaker 1: And my own chat's like, dude, that's a troll.
Speaker 7: Do you.
Speaker 1: Anybody nothing? I know, he's scary, he's scary. Face your fears.
Speaker 1: Look he's Look, he's at the tail end of a stream.
Speaker 1: He's tired. This is where you go for it. Look
Speaker 1: at him.
Speaker 2: I'm wilted. Attacked me while I'm wilted.
Speaker 1: He's only had three double double espressos. How's your espresso machine?
Speaker 1: By the by the way, Jay, do you have a
Speaker 1: good one that makes some real good grema?
Speaker 2: Or I don't do dairy too well, so I don't
Speaker 2: you usually do the cream even though I really like it?
Speaker 2: And uh yeah, I actually had to get a nice
Speaker 2: one because I kept buying kind of like mid tier
Speaker 2: ones that kept breaking after like a year, so we
Speaker 2: only got a nice one.
Speaker 1: Did you get a Rebel?
Speaker 2: I don't remember what brand it is, but it was
Speaker 2: about four hundred dollars. Five hundred dollars.
Speaker 1: Well that's good. Yeah, you basically that's your low. Five
Speaker 1: hundred or more is where you have to go with
Speaker 1: the espresso machines. Am low looks up. You keep coming
Speaker 1: on and breaking off. Get into a good place if
Speaker 1: you're gonna call in.
Speaker 4: Please?
Speaker 1: Who's meaner? Jay, Jim, Bob or Andrew? I mean, I
Speaker 1: think Jay, you can't like steal the meanness meme from Jay.
Speaker 1: I think Andrew's more maniacal than either of us.
Speaker 2: But you and I are similar in that we will
Speaker 2: impersonate and you know, kind of make into cartoon characters
Speaker 2: people that are big, you know, disagree or.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like more of a I'm kind of a bully.
Speaker 1: I like mock. I'm trying to I'm trying to figure
Speaker 1: out how much mockery is justified in an exchange and
Speaker 1: how much is just going over the line and just
Speaker 1: just you know, humiliating for the sake of humiliation. I'm
Speaker 1: dealing with that internally. I think Jay and Andrew mock
Speaker 1: less than me. I'm more of a direct mocker. And
Speaker 1: uh so a pair of Sith lords. Yeah, they're saying
Speaker 1: Jay and Andrew are currently a pair of Sith lords
Speaker 1: and they're training Jimbob just to succeed them. That's funny. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll fight yeah, yeah, none of them all. I will
Speaker 1: say that Jay Nor j Or Andrew actually ask people
Speaker 1: to fight them directly, like I do. Not that that's
Speaker 1: an advantage that might be as I've.
Speaker 2: Tried to set up two or three fights boxing matches.
Speaker 1: Have you boxed before? I mean not professionally, white shoulders,
Speaker 1: I mean you could, you could.
Speaker 2: Not trained, but I've like messed around.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Hey rock E, Hey, what's that? How you doing
Speaker 1: your oppositional Hm? No, are you well?
Speaker 4: I'm oppositional on.
Speaker 1: I'm not orthodox, Okay, do you wanna do you wanna?
Speaker 1: You got something?
Speaker 8: J or.
Speaker 4: Well, I made the comment that I think we're in
Speaker 4: Satan's Little season, and I I got like twenty scriptures
Speaker 4: that you know. Look at Matthew's twenty four thirty four,
Speaker 4: Jesus says this generation shall not pass till all these
Speaker 4: things happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that generation is the people standing in front
Speaker 2: of him. And so what he's talking about happens in
Speaker 2: seventy eighty when the temple's destroyed.
Speaker 3: That's why if you read Luke twenty one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So do you believe that
Speaker 4: there should be a third temple that needs to be destroyed?
Speaker 4: What I'm asking, are you a Zionist? No?
Speaker 3: First relate to this.
Speaker 4: No, I'm talking about the Satan's Little season.
Speaker 2: Where I don't know what you think.
Speaker 4: That is what I think. What is Satan's little season?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what you think that means.
Speaker 4: Revelations twenty seven through eight talks about Satan's Little season
Speaker 4: being after the Millennial reign. And so if do you
Speaker 4: you believe the millennial reign is future?
Speaker 3: No, it's now. It's the church.
Speaker 2: The Church reigns with Christ because when he ascended, it's
Speaker 2: fulfilled that he sat at the right hand of the
Speaker 2: Father and began his reign. So every New Testament reference
Speaker 2: to Psalm one ten is a reference to the ascension,
Speaker 2: which is a past reality.
Speaker 4: So you're millennialist.
Speaker 2: Ten towards post millennism. But I'm speaking of partial preterism.
Speaker 4: Partial Okay, that's good. Well, I kind of believe that
Speaker 4: he came physically reigned for a thousand years and history
Speaker 4: has been we've been lied to in their hiding Christ. Yeah,
Speaker 4: physically on earth, he was here.
Speaker 3: It's crazy, dude.
Speaker 1: Sorry, Wait, what are they hiding though?
Speaker 4: Did he did? He came? And that the tribulation happened,
Speaker 4: and that the Millennial reign is over. There's there's evidence
Speaker 4: that they added seven hundred years to history. Who's they,
Speaker 4: I don't know who you would call him? The Satanists
Speaker 4: that you know, the people that rule the world. Now
Speaker 4: you know, you know seventeen seven Okay, if you if
Speaker 4: the millennial reign, if the tribulation was over in seventy
Speaker 4: six a d. And then you add one thousand years
Speaker 4: at the one thousand and seventy six AD, and there's
Speaker 4: evidence that they added seven hundred years to history, so
Speaker 4: that would be seventies seventeen seventy six AD, you know,
Speaker 4: and then you have the they re established Rome, the
Speaker 4: Roman you know they went against you know, the French Revolution,
Speaker 4: the French Revolution.
Speaker 1: Can you hear that?
Speaker 7: Check?
Speaker 9: Check?
Speaker 4: Is that?
Speaker 2: Don't hunt me?
Speaker 6: Yeah? I like it.
Speaker 1: Anyone else. I saw someone else keep dropping off in
Speaker 1: there that was gonna loop, so you gotta get him out.
Speaker 1: I'm learning. I'm learning. I learned from Jay, I learned
Speaker 1: from some other people. Once there's a once you can
Speaker 1: sense the loop, you gotta just you gotta get out
Speaker 1: of there. Thanks for jumping on, Rocky though, but that's
Speaker 1: gonna go nowhere. Seventeen seventy six. Can you imagine Ben
Speaker 1: Shapiro became one of those guys. He was just like
Speaker 1: I changed my health. Yeah, seventeen king now excellent.
Speaker 9: Thanks trained for a thousand years and hiding it from us.
Speaker 9: You're hiding it from us. How do you know they
Speaker 9: added years to history? Well, because they're there, Hell, wiki
Speaker 9: ten dollars.
Speaker 2: I like that. That's that Mormon level of argumentation, right like,
Speaker 2: because it's not there.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, uh, Rocky Shepherd, every one I've seen
Speaker 1: him on a couple of things. You know, it seems
Speaker 1: like a he's he's a nice guy, he's well behaved.
Speaker 1: But I mean it's like the priest of LDS. This
Speaker 1: has to be a troll. Troll, yes, welcome to okay,
Speaker 1: anyone we got one that.
Speaker 6: Was it?
Speaker 1: That was very or camel Yeah, nothing.
Speaker 2: Mormons like Mormons. I thought Mormons love to come and debate.
Speaker 1: Now they don't. They never click the link. That's the thing.
Speaker 1: The ones I got when I post the link, they
Speaker 1: never click it. And they say, you're afraid of Mormon,
Speaker 1: You're afraid of the LDS church, which I think they're
Speaker 1: just it's probably like my trolls, right fortunately, so well,
Speaker 1: I mean, look, he's got a.
Speaker 4: Book here, it's only five dollars.
Speaker 1: Who wrote that?
Speaker 4: It's written by Jesus kept his word, it's anonymous.
Speaker 1: Oh nobody knows who wrote it.
Speaker 4: I know, I know Jay likes to read books. Maybe
Speaker 4: he should, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I've already questioning the typeface that they chosen, the placement
Speaker 1: of everything. I'm an aesthetic aesthetic snob, so I'm really
Speaker 1: I'm already out with that book. I mean, not as
Speaker 1: rough one sideways sideways.
Speaker 4: It's only five bucks. It's a short read.
Speaker 1: Look at that book? Is that a coloring book?
Speaker 4: Look at it's got.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right, if there's no one else serious
Speaker 1: want to call in and and go after Jay and
Speaker 1: his meanness, We'll give you like one more minute or so.
Speaker 1: It's a huge opportunity. I mean, you're getting him when
Speaker 1: he's tired. He doesn't have coffee.
Speaker 3: I need to I need to be put in my place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, come on, what other? Come on? This is insane.
Speaker 1: I thought they'd be all over you, dude.
Speaker 2: I thought you would legit get like Mormons in the chat,
Speaker 2: spamming and yapping and.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, the small portion of my chat, you know,
Speaker 1: make some quick remarks about you during any stream, just
Speaker 1: like totally random. And I'm like, well, if he ever
Speaker 1: jumps on, you can just call in. It's fine, don't
Speaker 1: worry about it.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah right.
Speaker 2: And then now that I'm here, none of them want
Speaker 2: to hop on.
Speaker 1: I mean he lives for Robert. Okay, cool, here we go,
Speaker 1: Hello Robert, justin water, justin water. See that's it. That's
Speaker 1: all we get. You get way better people.
Speaker 3: And you know who that is?
Speaker 1: No, I don't know who that is. I don't know
Speaker 1: who that is. I gotta watch it too because some
Speaker 1: people troll me and they try to try c s. Yeah,
Speaker 1: JB and J unstoppable force over here all crickets from
Speaker 1: the Mormons. Where did they all go? I have to
Speaker 1: rely on fake calls from my own creative audience. This
Speaker 1: is just sad. This is sad.
Speaker 2: Well, I think I'm probably gonna have to head out
Speaker 2: because Jamie, are about to go do something. But really
Speaker 2: appreciate the Mormon stream if you want to summarize, or
Speaker 2: maybe I'm not trying.
Speaker 4: To be right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think we got to go to pretty soon. Yeah,
Speaker 1: no problem.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: In summary, thanks for coming on expanding on the knowledge
Speaker 1: you have of Mormonism. Glad we covered some of the
Speaker 1: funny stuff. I'm in the process of making a an animation.
Speaker 1: I made all the art for it, so I just
Speaker 1: have to voice it. And uh, when I post that,
Speaker 1: maybe you can help share it share it around. Jay
Speaker 1: with that said, Mormonism is in fact, uh whackier surprisingly
Speaker 1: then I think than Islam is an Islam. Posh was saying, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: look further into it. He said, it gets more ridiculous
Speaker 1: than there's someths.
Speaker 2: But I just think that this whole space story with
Speaker 2: Collob and with Jesus and Lucifer being brothers and you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, even that's I think that's stuff
Speaker 2: just Trump's you know, the god the Father was a
Speaker 2: man who became a god who impregnates Mary. I mean
Speaker 2: that stuff just prompts the even the Mormon, I mean
Speaker 2: the Muslim Hadith stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's just wild. So any who with that said, uh,
Speaker 1: go follow Jay at Jay Dyer. Is there anything else
Speaker 1: you got coming up? That's that's like a big any news,
Speaker 1: like big news for you.
Speaker 2: Or wells they're callably with three is complete, and I've
Speaker 2: got back a couple of the edits on the second
Speaker 2: edited version from the publisher. It's looking good. I think
Speaker 2: it's gonna be a lot of fun, a lot of movies,
Speaker 2: right under one hundred movies, almost one hundred in this
Speaker 2: one versus the previous ones covering less movies and more writing.
Speaker 2: This one is more movies, so look for that in
Speaker 2: the near future. The mega church streams that we did
Speaker 2: were a lot of fun this week, so people can
Speaker 2: go check those out on my channel and uh, just yeah,
Speaker 2: turning out stupid little tiktoks and.
Speaker 1: Having fun and then maybe a debate on on whatever.
Speaker 1: It would be fun.
Speaker 2: Oh I don't yeah, if we can get her to
Speaker 2: do it. I don't know. Originally she was gonna come
Speaker 2: on the channel originally, and then it was like, oh, no,
Speaker 2: I can't, but maybe on whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you would debate feminism against her because she.
Speaker 3: Made something different.
Speaker 2: I told her I would debate her all because she
Speaker 2: claims to be quote a radical Protestant whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was like, we can debate that too, and
Speaker 2: she's like I wanted to so well.
Speaker 1: That you could tie kind of tie them in because
Speaker 1: she tries to appeal to the to her weird Christian view.
Speaker 1: But then I asked her flat out as Christianity patriarchy.
Speaker 1: She said yes. So it's like, do you want a
Speaker 1: Christian nation that like, I mean in a sense that like,
Speaker 1: do you want the structure of society to reflect the
Speaker 1: church in this case if it's a patriarchy? And no, no,
Speaker 1: I mean just like, okay, so what do you want?
Speaker 1: I want liberty, liberty above all. What about you and
Speaker 1: Michael Malice? I wonder if you guys would hit it
Speaker 1: off with a debate.
Speaker 3: Oh, I know, yet he had hide on so maybe yeah.
Speaker 1: He said maybe to uh he, I've been engaged with
Speaker 1: him a couple of times. I put him in a
Speaker 1: meme that got his attention where he's like dies. In
Speaker 1: the meme, he goes that, yeah.
Speaker 2: I reached out to Tripoli and I couldn't get Tripley
Speaker 2: to do anything, So I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, they're there. You know, the whole comedy scene is
Speaker 1: like is a it's kind of on fire as far
Speaker 1: as like energy and movement right now, so I'm sure
Speaker 1: they're just like riding that wave. It's hard to get
Speaker 1: these people. Even I asked Ben Benkis, he was interested,
Speaker 1: but it's it's really hard to get these people to commit,
Speaker 1: and probably rightfully so, being that they're super busy. Anyway, Well,
Speaker 1: thanks so much, Jay, God bless you and yours and
Speaker 1: have fun on your uh your event or your date
Speaker 1: or whatever. And uh, I'll talk to you soon on
Speaker 1: any future topics you guys want me and Jay to
Speaker 1: collaborate on. Throw them our way. They could be really ridiculous.
Speaker 1: By the way, we we have no concern of what
Speaker 1: the topic is. We'll we'll cover it. Together and have
Speaker 1: a have a blast. Okay. With that said, thanks Jay
Speaker 1: head Off and.
Speaker 2: Uh absolutely man, thanks for having me is a great
Speaker 2: chat and always fun covering colts A love that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no problem, dude, thanks a lot. There you go.
Speaker 1: I'll give Rocky. I'll give him the floor to to
Speaker 1: uh educate us. Rocky, go ahead, Well what do.
Speaker 4: You think of the statue of Liberty? What do you
Speaker 4: think that represents?
Speaker 1: A troon?
Speaker 4: M that's the light bearer? The light bearer, I.
Speaker 1: Don't know, is this skim. I don't put too much to.
Speaker 4: The Statue of liberty or the light bearer.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean maybe it's.
Speaker 4: Got a chain that's broken around its ankle.
Speaker 1: Uh huh wait a seconder.
Speaker 4: Okay, the liberty to sin against God, that's what it's
Speaker 4: all about.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean liberty, liberty itself. I don't need
Speaker 1: a symbol, uh to know that. Uh. Worshiping liberty and
Speaker 1: freedom above all is uh a nefarious plan. I figured
Speaker 1: that out pretty early without the Statue of Liberty. So
Speaker 1: you know, if that's the case, Rocky, we both agree
Speaker 1: that selling liberty above all is a sort of satanic trick.
Speaker 1: What's the narrow.
Speaker 4: Path Jesus is the narrow path Jesus.
Speaker 1: But Jesus is a being. So is there a way
Speaker 1: in which to properly way the way the truth? I
Speaker 1: know the platitudes and the words, But is there a
Speaker 1: proper way to follow and live a christ Like life?
Speaker 4: Well, I don't believe it's relying on people you call fathers.
Speaker 1: Well I didn't ask that. I asked is there a
Speaker 1: proper way to follow Christ?
Speaker 4: Well? I guess there is.
Speaker 1: And would the proper way of following Christ be preserved
Speaker 1: by men and taught? Or is it figured out? Every
Speaker 1: individual is born and they figured out themselves the proper
Speaker 1: way to follow Christ.
Speaker 4: Well, we have pastors, but we don't call them fathers.
Speaker 4: Well I don't, I don't. Well, that wasn't. My definition
Speaker 4: of a father in the church is an elderly.
Speaker 1: So wait, you don't follow fathers, but you follow pastors.
Speaker 4: I study under pastors. You have the gift of pastor teacher.
Speaker 1: They have the gift pastoring.
Speaker 4: Some people have gifts. Some people there's gifts themselves.
Speaker 1: Fathers don't have that.
Speaker 4: Well, it says not to give anyone the title of father.
Speaker 1: Well, that's heavenly father. That is to say that you
Speaker 1: don't call any man the status of heavenly father. The
Speaker 1: term father replaced synonymous with a dad, is not what
Speaker 1: they're referring to. Neither are they referring to a father
Speaker 1: in the church, who's essentially a position of an office,
Speaker 1: position of a priest position. So if you're the father,
Speaker 1: well I don't.
Speaker 4: I'm not his father. Pope means father.
Speaker 1: It's a word concept fallacy, dude. So the question is
Speaker 1: are you look are you the priest of your your household?
Speaker 4: I'm the head of my house.
Speaker 1: Are you a priest of your house? If you call
Speaker 1: yourself a follower, I.
Speaker 4: Am a priest, or a saint or whatever.
Speaker 1: You're a saint, Yeah, we're all saints.
Speaker 4: Anyone who believes in christis okay.
Speaker 1: So if you're the father of your house, isn't your own?
Speaker 1: Aren't your own children following another man?
Speaker 4: I don't have the title i'm I'm I'm their dad,
Speaker 4: I'm their father. Yeah, but I don't do you teach
Speaker 4: them in the church. I don't have a title in
Speaker 4: the church called father?
Speaker 1: Do they do you teach them theology?
Speaker 4: My kids are grown up? Yeah, I did do that.
Speaker 1: Should they have listened to you being that you're just
Speaker 1: another man.
Speaker 4: Well, they they listen to the Holy Spirit, Oh so
Speaker 4: not you. Yeah, they listen to my words, and they
Speaker 4: discern whether the Holy Spirit makes things real.
Speaker 1: Oh so if they disagreed with you, and you said no,
Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit told me x y is true, and
Speaker 1: your son said no, the Holy Spirit told me x
Speaker 1: y isn't true. Rocky, you're getting spurgey right now? How
Speaker 1: do you discern between the two if you say what
Speaker 1: you're saying. Let's say you make a theological statement to
Speaker 1: your son and you say, the Holy Spirit is guiding
Speaker 1: me to teach you right now, and he says, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: The Holy Spirit is guiding me, and I don't agree
Speaker 1: with you. What how do you, guys, determine the truth
Speaker 1: of the theological interpretation you're teaching your kid?
Speaker 4: He my children would have the Holy Spirit also, And
Speaker 4: sometimes if you learn something that's false, then the.
Speaker 1: Stops stop it. If you claim that the Holy Spirit
Speaker 1: is guiding your interpretation of the thing you're teaching your child,
Speaker 1: and your child, being grown up says, well, that's interesting,
Speaker 1: I'm also being guided in the interpretation. I don't agree
Speaker 1: with you. I asked you, what's the methodology to determine
Speaker 1: who is correct. If you both are claiming to have
Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit guiding you the scriptures, that's the thing
Speaker 1: in question, Rocky. If I interpret the scriptures, and I'm
Speaker 1: guided to interpret the Holy Scriptures right by the Holy Spirit,
Speaker 1: and you both look at the scriptures, the same scripture,
Speaker 1: and you come to a different a disagreement, a contradict
Speaker 1: read disagreement between your interpretations, and you both claim to
Speaker 1: be guided by the Holy Spirit in your interpretation of
Speaker 1: the scriptures. I ask you, how do you discern who's right?
Speaker 1: And you say, the scriptures.
Speaker 5: Yeah, see, I'm learning, all right, this is domb waste
Speaker 5: my time.
Speaker 1: I just can't. You can't if you don't understand, Rocky,
Speaker 1: God bless your soul. If you don't understand the problem here.
Speaker 1: If two people claim to have the power and the
Speaker 1: guidance of the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture by the way,
Speaker 1: you didn't get the scripture yourself. That required a whole
Speaker 1: slew of history such that you can hold a binding
Speaker 1: called the books. You're already appealing to men before you
Speaker 1: who are guided by the same thing you say you're
Speaker 1: guided by. The problem is the people who were guided
Speaker 1: into forming and getting the books of the Cannon and
Speaker 1: putting them into a binded, organized compilation for you to read.
Speaker 1: They also have preserved interpretation of that. They didn't just
Speaker 1: like put pages and not practice it right Rocky, By
Speaker 1: the way, the scripture itself was used for liturgical practices,
Speaker 1: not for your son and you to read and to
Speaker 1: come up with interpretations that you think. It means. It's
Speaker 1: not for you to decode. So the problem you have
Speaker 1: is an epistel problem, because how do you know you're
Speaker 1: interpreting the scripture correctly?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: Is the question? And you said, I'm guided by the
Speaker 1: Holy Spirit. I said, that's interesting. If your son is
Speaker 1: guided by the Holy Spirit and he disagrees with the
Speaker 1: same scripture interpretation, how do you figure out who's right?
Speaker 1: And you said, the scriptures okay, you can't do that
Speaker 1: is god logical? Would God lead you to an illogical
Speaker 1: path of understanding? No, you have an illogical path of understanding. Therefore,
Speaker 1: it's not from God, it's from something else. It's from you.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even say it's demonic. I'm not even saying that.
Speaker 1: I'm saying you're the authority. You're just like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I know and then you're like, well, the fathers, you
Speaker 1: guys appeal to church fathers, so do you hold You
Speaker 1: hold a Bible in your hand. You appeal to church fathers.
Speaker 1: You appeal to a normative authority to protect you, appeal
Speaker 1: to counsels to protect the faith and its interpretation in
Speaker 1: practice from heresy, from gnarcissism, from all of these things.
Speaker 1: And yet you have this privileged position in modernity to
Speaker 1: go down the street, get a free Bible or a
Speaker 1: dollar bible, hold it in your hand and be like,
Speaker 1: I don't need anything. I don't need a damn thing.
Speaker 1: I just guess me and my son and the Holy
Speaker 1: Spirit in nineteen seventeen seventy six and adding numbers together.
Speaker 1: Come on, dude, come on, don't do this. Wilson nineteen
Speaker 1: dollars twenty bucks. Thank you so much, Rachel, hope you're
Speaker 1: doing well. I learned that this type of rebellious Protestant
Speaker 1: loves making up their own system to follow, which reduces
Speaker 1: to you're not my dad. You can't every time, Rachel,
Speaker 1: every time it's you're not my dad. And yet I
Speaker 1: ask them, do you teach your son? Do you teach
Speaker 1: your son?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 1: But I don't call myself a father, I say Deaddy.
Speaker 1: I don't say father, I say deaddy Diddy. Well, Emmanuel
Speaker 1: two hundred pesos endless celestial l's in the chat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to change my own whole song, dude,
Speaker 1: change my whole damn song, Diddy. Sincere hypocrite member for
Speaker 1: one month, don't follow any man proceeds to create his
Speaker 1: own man made understanding against the Bible. Well, that's it's
Speaker 1: a huge thing, sincere hypocrite. If I granted someone like
Speaker 1: Rocky his interpretation and he thought it was authoritative because
Speaker 1: he was guided by the Holy Spirit, yet he has
Speaker 1: no methodology for discerning whether or not he's wrong or not.
Speaker 1: And I said, are you comfortable enough, being that you've
Speaker 1: been guided by the Holy Spirit to interpret this already
Speaker 1: interpreted book of books? Would you be willing to start
Speaker 1: your own church declaratively so, and to develop traditions around
Speaker 1: your church and your and your beliefs. It's not weird
Speaker 1: that that's already happened, and you're holding the artifact of that.
Speaker 1: That the that the book of Books, the Bible, the
Speaker 1: canon is the fruit is the product of a tradition
Speaker 1: that preceded the object. No, I don't listen to them. Yes,
Speaker 1: you do. You hold that, you hold it in your hand.
Speaker 1: You listen. You just don't agree with their interpretation, but
Speaker 1: you certainly listen to their authority in determining which books
Speaker 1: go into the Bible that's not in the Bible. Rocky,
Speaker 1: the list of books that were to go into the
Speaker 1: Bible that's not in the Bible. How do they know
Speaker 1: they aren't their dad? How do you even know you're
Speaker 1: not your dad? You like to make stuff up, don't you?
Speaker 1: What can you say? What can you say? You can't
Speaker 1: say much. You can't debate. You can't debate. You can't
Speaker 1: debate a spiritual issue. You can debate a knowledge issue.
Speaker 1: You can debate facts against facts if there's a spiritual issue,
Speaker 1: like Rachel pointed out, if there's a not you're not
Speaker 1: my daddy, I information is not going to solve that
Speaker 1: you're not my daddy. There's no information you can give
Speaker 1: someone that's going to overwhelm that impulse to say, no, Daddy,
Speaker 1: not me. Hold in the goods twenty bucks. I did
Speaker 1: the same thing when I was a Baptist. I felt
Speaker 1: like I was in a loop and I never ended.
Speaker 1: It's a never ending loop. That was until I actually
Speaker 1: read the church fathers in history. Didn't a rich man
Speaker 1: call Abraham father when he was in the whole father
Speaker 1: thing is insane? Called no man father taking the term
Speaker 1: father capital f knowing exactly that it's referring to. No. Oh,
Speaker 1: man can be equivalent to heavenly father. No man alone man,
Speaker 1: don't call don't refer to man as equal status. It's
Speaker 1: not a word thing. Oh you said it, he said.
Speaker 1: Oh accidentally called my father my daddy father on that
Speaker 1: thanksgiving Oh my gosh, Lord forgive me. That's not what
Speaker 1: it's referring to. Justin Henley five dollars, call no merry
Speaker 1: woman missus, because all women are brides of Christ. Use
Speaker 1: lady lady Bob and lady Wilson, which means they are married.
Speaker 1: That's a good point. Why not be consistent? Justin Austin
Speaker 1: the Daily, I have been listening a way and aware
Speaker 1: and great extreme Jimbob, call me, call me, don't call
Speaker 1: me father. You listen to your diddy. We didn't the
Speaker 1: deily away mm hmmmmmm. Spiritual enthusiasts, uh, feel free to
Speaker 1: go over to my discord. There'll be plenty of people
Speaker 1: who sort out all your chat based questions into one
Speaker 1: on one questions. Okay, go for it. What conditioner I
Speaker 1: don't use? I barely condition I don't wash my hair.
Speaker 1: Once in a while, I'll use a conditioner that's like
Speaker 1: anti Dandriff. It's not father, it's ditty. Yes, this is
Speaker 1: Diddy Diddy speaking of this is kind of wild.
Speaker 7: Eric Sworsinski from the Preacher Boys podcast, This sissy boy, Uh,
Speaker 7: you know a new platform many reprobate lesbian or atheist,
Speaker 7: you know, to make any accusation. Basically he did about
Speaker 7: three valid episodes a valid abuse.
Speaker 1: You know, where is this? What is this? Didn't I
Speaker 1: didn't know Nathan Rager had such history. It's just wild.
Speaker 1: That outfit. I feel like when I go on whatever,
Speaker 1: maybe I should source that outfit he's got on. Don't
Speaker 1: you think look at that? Imagine I show up like that.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, he's in definitely an a basement. That
Speaker 1: is a basement in Indiana or something. I don't even know.
Speaker 1: It's got that dark, windowless feel Indiana porker. That's in
Speaker 1: my town. You know that base rip? You know that basement.
Speaker 1: M Ben Shapiro with Truppy speaking of Michael Malice. He
Speaker 1: dressed like a I think it was purposeful. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: dressed just like a pimp on timpoole.
Speaker 8: Mm hmmm, weird.
Speaker 1: Anything else you gotta say, Rocky.
Speaker 4: No, No, you make a lot of sense. You make
Speaker 4: a lot of sense. And I'm not saying you're wrong.
Speaker 4: I could be wrong, and that probably am. I've been
Speaker 4: wrong before. So is it a salvational issue.
Speaker 1: Well, that's what's so cool, at least about the church
Speaker 1: I'm in, is that there's no declarative salvation knowledge. But
Speaker 1: there might be issues that you can point to that
Speaker 1: you'd want to be clear about. So while I can't
Speaker 1: sit here, ever and make any declarative statements about your salvation,
Speaker 1: because I can't judge, and I can't judge the judge
Speaker 1: as far as the practice, though, if the path is narrow,
Speaker 1: and if Christ established a church, then there's a history
Speaker 1: of the church. And if there's a history of the church,
Speaker 1: there's a lineage of men who preserve the history of
Speaker 1: the church. And so if that's the case, and no
Speaker 1: one can avoid that, you or me, if there is
Speaker 1: some sort of succession that had to have happened for
Speaker 1: you to even hold the books of books in your hand,
Speaker 1: then it would follow that there isn't a normative authority
Speaker 1: that preceded even our existence, even before you and I
Speaker 1: were born, that this was already in effect, that there
Speaker 1: was some sort of authority that practiced and preserved what
Speaker 1: we call Christianity as a as a practice, as a
Speaker 1: theological position, as something worth defending from perversion and heresy.
Speaker 1: And if that's the case, what I point to is
Speaker 1: two thousand years of tradition, an interpretation that is solid.
Speaker 1: Even if you took the Bible away from them, the
Speaker 1: practice would maintain it that that liturgical practices would maintain
Speaker 1: from just straight up tradition, and tradition itself is biblical
Speaker 1: as well. That Thesalonial Thessalonians points to holding steadfast to
Speaker 1: tradition both practice word mouth scripture. So there's extra biblical
Speaker 1: aspects to Christianity. And if you hold a book in
Speaker 1: your hand and you called the Bible and think the
Speaker 1: thing you're following, it follows that because that Bible has
Speaker 1: a history where to one instance, it didn't exist, that
Speaker 1: means Christianity must have necessarily existed before the Bible. And
Speaker 1: so if that's the case, Rocky I ask someone like you,
Speaker 1: who I've asked myself this question, Oh, man, what was Christianity? Then?
Speaker 1: What is Christianity? If there's a Christianity that precedes canon,
Speaker 1: what does that look like? What is Christianity in the
Speaker 1: year four fifty five hundred when you and me would
Speaker 1: be lay laity, We would be layperson who didn't have
Speaker 1: a book called the Bible. It would be too expensive,
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have access to this. So how would we
Speaker 1: get the knowledge and the truth and the scripture? How
Speaker 1: would it be delivered to us? I argue, with historical
Speaker 1: backing that we would get it by attending a church
Speaker 1: that would have some sort of authoritative position on it.
Speaker 8: Right.
Speaker 1: Well, if that's the case, if I were to ask, well,
Speaker 1: what's the narrow path, and I said, I think the
Speaker 1: narrow path would be something akin to closely linked to
Speaker 1: what would be practiced in the year four to five
Speaker 1: hundred and held true to that practice over time, so
Speaker 1: that when you walk into a church, your experience you
Speaker 1: could just as well be in the year five hundred.
Speaker 1: That's appealing to me, Rocky.
Speaker 4: Yeah, But how do you know whatever father you're following
Speaker 4: as the truth? You know which father do you follow.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're talking about like a priest of
Speaker 1: your parish, well, the priest of the parish is not falling.
Speaker 1: He's holding an office, he's not holding him his personal
Speaker 1: opinion like a guy. I'm a guy, and this is
Speaker 1: my view of Orthodoxy. He goes through a rigorous process
Speaker 1: to become a priest, and he's bound to holding to
Speaker 1: the tradition of the church going back to the earliest
Speaker 1: So he doesn't have the ability or the authority to
Speaker 1: reinterpret everything because rocky scripture in the practical sense in
Speaker 1: Orthodoxy is presented to you in practice through the liturgical worship.
Speaker 1: It's not you sit around and you ask the priest, well,
Speaker 1: let's talk about this scripture, and that you could do
Speaker 1: biblical studies. But that's the difference between someone who's holding
Speaker 1: a Bible and they say, let's do a Bible study
Speaker 1: and go, well, who's lead, how do you know who's leading,
Speaker 1: Who's what's the criteria for truth here? And they go,
Speaker 1: I don't know. We're just gonna kind of we're going
Speaker 1: to say what we get from it, like it's a
Speaker 1: book club, and see who sounds like the best, who's
Speaker 1: making the most sense, what I'm saying, is that in
Speaker 1: orthodoxy that's not even occurring. You don't even do that.
Speaker 1: You don't sit around and figure out what each person
Speaker 1: thinks something means. That's not what's happening. There's no reinterpretation
Speaker 1: today of the Bible, whereas there's a lot of that
Speaker 1: going on with someone who just merely holds a Bible
Speaker 1: and rejects any sort of authority. They just go, well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna interpret the crap out of this thing.
Speaker 1: Then I'm going to join live streams and share my
Speaker 1: own views on what I think I interpreted.
Speaker 4: Right, I had a consider it, pastor, my authority, my teacher.
Speaker 1: And you're a pastor of what what church?
Speaker 4: Church? I used to go to?
Speaker 1: What church?
Speaker 4: Is that barrack at church?
Speaker 1: And is that church have a starting point in history?
Speaker 4: It was a Dallas seminary student. Okay, my study.
Speaker 1: Are inbrew And I understand I'm not questioning is is
Speaker 1: is education. I'm saying the church, he's he's authorized, he's
Speaker 1: self authorizing this church. I'm asking the church itself, like,
Speaker 1: for instance, could that church also simultaneously exist as an
Speaker 1: extension of that church simultaneously in another state?
Speaker 4: At the same time, he had a church that he
Speaker 4: it started up in the fifties, so that.
Speaker 1: The origin, yeah, I understand, is.
Speaker 4: That fifties non denominational Okay. Church. So I understand studied
Speaker 4: under the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramic.
Speaker 1: So that's the thing. If that church has a start point,
Speaker 1: that's not the start point of Jesus Christ starting the
Speaker 1: church establishing the church. I'm asking what's the origin story
Speaker 1: of the church. It sounds like this church started in
Speaker 1: the church started in nineteen fifty. Well, if you're.
Speaker 4: Taking a local church, yet it's called a local church,
Speaker 4: it's not the church. It's a local.
Speaker 1: Okay, I understand. But if the local church has to
Speaker 1: be necessarily if it's a true church connected to the church,
Speaker 1: which the church that Jesus Christ is the high priest of.
Speaker 1: If Jesus Christ is the high priest of a church,
Speaker 1: the church preceded the nineteen fifty church, right right, Okay,
Speaker 1: So what's the church If it's not your your got
Speaker 1: your church that you that that guy established in nineteen fifty,
Speaker 1: what is the church that existed church?
Speaker 4: I believe the church is all believers, the universal, it's everyone,
Speaker 4: every soul of it. Everyone who's who believes and follows
Speaker 4: the gospel is a member of the body. Some people.
Speaker 4: Some people have a gift of teaching. Some have a
Speaker 4: gift that helps. Some people have different gifts. And I
Speaker 4: believe there's a gift of teaching. And so my pastor teacher,
Speaker 4: I believed he was had to give the teaching. He
Speaker 4: never called himself father, but he was the elder. He
Speaker 4: was in charge of that local church.
Speaker 1: Okay, I, oh, good thing. He would have been burning
Speaker 1: in hell for saying that word.
Speaker 4: And that's not what I'm saying. The word father, and
Speaker 4: you're humorous doesn't win every debate, I mean debates, I don't.
Speaker 4: I'm not a debater. I don't know how to debate.
Speaker 4: That's not my thing. I'm just trying to talk to you,
Speaker 4: have a conversation.
Speaker 1: Oh that's fine, that's fine. I just rigorous me.
Speaker 4: It doesn't matter. You can call me whatever you want.
Speaker 4: It doesn't really matter. It doesn't hurt my feeling.
Speaker 1: Anything else. Okay. So when you said, you said you
Speaker 1: believe the church is anyone who follows the Gospel, and
Speaker 1: I asked you for is there a way in which
Speaker 1: someone could incorrectly follow or let's say convey the teachings
Speaker 1: of the gospel.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's false I'm not saying everyone who
Speaker 4: calls them a church is a church.
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is a it's a Is there a
Speaker 1: false church?
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's false churches.
Speaker 1: Can a false church literally hold the gospel and teach
Speaker 1: it directly and say they believe in the gospel and
Speaker 1: they're teaching it and be incorrectly teaching? What do you
Speaker 1: mean if they have can a church? Can a church
Speaker 1: open its doors and say we're going to teach the
Speaker 1: gospel and they stand on stage and they do what
Speaker 1: they believe is teaching the gospel and they think they
Speaker 1: believe in the gospel, and they believe that they're teaching
Speaker 1: the gospel. I said, is it possible, I'm asking, is
Speaker 1: it possible that they are incorrectly teaching the gospel even
Speaker 1: though they believe they're they're teaching it?
Speaker 4: Sure?
Speaker 1: If that's the case, rocky. If it's the case that
Speaker 1: a group of people can start at church and they
Speaker 1: believe they're in the gospel, but they believe they're teaching
Speaker 1: the gospel, and it could be the case that they're
Speaker 1: incorrectly teaching the gospel. This being a logical possibility and
Speaker 1: a practical possibility means that there's an authority and a
Speaker 1: criteria to be able to tell you whether or not
Speaker 1: they're correctly teaching the gospel right.
Speaker 4: Well, that's where I believe that you have to rightly interpret,
Speaker 4: you know, the word God.
Speaker 1: To rightly interpret the word of God means that there's
Speaker 1: an authority to tell you did you correctly interpret this?
Speaker 1: Or is this some sort of heretical blasphemy, blasphemy view
Speaker 1: or something. Right, there's got to be some authority that
Speaker 1: tells you whether or not you're correctly doing it right.
Speaker 1: You know how you do a test in math, and
Speaker 1: the authority on the matters of whether you got the
Speaker 1: answers right or not is the teacher and the teacher.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, I understand what you're trying to say. You're
Speaker 4: trying to say there has to be some kind of
Speaker 4: human authority that's above me that that I have to
Speaker 4: You know, he's the father, so he's the elder.
Speaker 1: You mean, like being a father of the home. No, No,
Speaker 1: I'm not telling about like that. Well no, are you?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 1: The reason I use that as an excuse, Rocky, or
Speaker 1: as an example, is that if you're a Christian and
Speaker 1: you believe in the quote Gospel as you say, then
Speaker 1: it would follow that who you are in the home
Speaker 1: is a representation of of Christ in a sense, and
Speaker 1: in a sense your home is a type of an
Speaker 1: extension of a church.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: So if that's the case, you, the father of the home,
Speaker 1: are the authority of the owner.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: If your kid says I think this means this and
Speaker 1: Christ isn't really God, let's say they say that. Let's
Speaker 1: say they deny the Trinity's authority. That's right, And so
Speaker 1: what authority you under?
Speaker 4: I'm I'm under Christ. He's the head of the church.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but how do you where's the authority in the
Speaker 1: world of Christ church?
Speaker 4: Well, I don't believe it's this guy or that guy.
Speaker 2: But it's you.
Speaker 1: Actually, you do believe it's this guy. You You go
Speaker 1: like this, I believe this guy. So here's what we have, Rocky.
Speaker 1: You believe that Christ established a church, but there's no
Speaker 1: actual church. It's anyone who believes in in in the Gospel.
Speaker 1: And I ask you, what if your son is under
Speaker 1: your authority, what authority are you under? And you say Christ?
Speaker 1: And I say, okay, So you're just like you are
Speaker 1: criticizing Catholics for having a pope. Guess what, Rocky, you
Speaker 1: know who the pope is in your instance? Guess who
Speaker 1: the pope is?
Speaker 4: I don't know, So you gonna get lost. You're the pope, yeah,
Speaker 4: of my family?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're the pope. You're the ultimate authority of
Speaker 1: the gospel.
Speaker 4: What the scripture says that I'm the authority. I believe
Speaker 4: in the patriarch and all that I'm not.
Speaker 1: Is a patriarch hierarchical Yeah. Okay, So we have Christ
Speaker 1: established a church with men in in material in the
Speaker 1: material world, right, yes, biblical? Right, that's biblical. Christ established
Speaker 1: a church with men. He has apostles, the body, the
Speaker 1: College of Apostles who represent him expand the body of
Speaker 1: the church. Those are men, right, Yeah? Are is your
Speaker 1: authority higher than the apostles? No? Oh, so you're not
Speaker 1: the authority then? So there is uh, there is a
Speaker 1: lineage and and a hierarchical system of Christ.
Speaker 4: And do you believe there's current apostles? You believe there's.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean they're they're a lot well and they're
Speaker 1: alive in a sense. But that's like we're getting into
Speaker 1: something distinct from right now. We're talking about the rigidity
Speaker 1: of a church existing and a body, a body that exists, right,
Speaker 1: that is the church. If Christ established a church historically,
Speaker 1: there was a moment you didn't exist, and I didn't exist.
Speaker 1: That body existed in a way in material reality with
Speaker 1: men and these and if we point to the apostles
Speaker 1: and we say, these are the men that are called
Speaker 1: to go out and teach properly, teach what you call
Speaker 1: the gospel, teach and expand what the churches and share
Speaker 1: it right and get people into the church. If that's
Speaker 1: the case, and you admit that there they're an authority,
Speaker 1: and you admit that the patriarchal system, which is hierarchical,
Speaker 1: means that there is a top and then there is
Speaker 1: a movement toward the bottom. Right, that's what hierarchy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, when I said patriarch I meant that I believe
Speaker 4: that the husband is the head of the household. I
Speaker 4: don't believe women should be over. But I don't know
Speaker 4: that there's currently a group of men that have authority
Speaker 4: over the whole universal Church. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: It's just that I remember certain scriptures that says, you know,
Speaker 4: like the Pharisees. They had traditions over and Jesus was
Speaker 4: right there and they they were listening to their traditions,
Speaker 4: the Pharisees and the Sadducees and their traditions, and Jesus
Speaker 4: spoke against traditions.
Speaker 1: I think no, no, he didn't speak against traditions plural,
Speaker 1: Otherwise it wouldn't be in Thessalonians to hold said fast
Speaker 1: to traditions. There are specific traditions he's they're referring to
Speaker 1: when you say men made traditions, correct, I don't know
Speaker 1: where there are a set of things that people we're
Speaker 1: doing at the time that were man made traditions that
Speaker 1: had nothing to.
Speaker 4: See a different thinking that he was trying to say that.
Speaker 1: That can God give us a tradition?
Speaker 2: Wait?
Speaker 1: Wait, Rocky, hold on, can God give us a tradition
Speaker 1: to follow?
Speaker 4: Sure? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Okay? So is can there be a distinction between man
Speaker 1: made tradition and God given tradition?
Speaker 4: I believe so. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to ask you to just consider that
Speaker 1: when you refer to the scripture that says tradition bad,
Speaker 1: I just want to invite you to consider that that
Speaker 1: doesn't follow that tradition is bad it was specifically a
Speaker 1: type of tradition, a man made tradition. But if you believe,
Speaker 1: if you believe in God and you believe in Christ,
Speaker 1: that Christ established a church, and you believe there's a
Speaker 1: proper way to practice practice that right to be a
Speaker 1: part of this church and to practice it and keep
Speaker 1: it in alive and well through the generations, that's a tradition.
Speaker 1: What do you do that through? What else? What else
Speaker 1: do you use as a mechanism to transfer knowledge and
Speaker 1: practice to the younger generations? What would you call it
Speaker 1: if it's not a tradition?
Speaker 8: Download?
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, if tradition is just how do you determine
Speaker 4: which tradition is?
Speaker 7: Well?
Speaker 1: I would say the one that the one that maintain
Speaker 1: and reflects the religion of the apostles.
Speaker 4: Do we use the scriptures to help?
Speaker 1: Not all always, but help you need?
Speaker 4: Is a scripture the final authority? Or is it your tradition? No?
Speaker 1: Not sold sept Well.
Speaker 4: No, I'm asking that question.
Speaker 6: What what made the scripture the scripture?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 6: Where did they pick the books? When did they pick
Speaker 6: the books? Which books like? And and like? Your Bible,
Speaker 6: for example, was made by a man who wanted to
Speaker 6: take out wanted to take out some of the books
Speaker 6: that were previously considered part of the canon of scripture.
Speaker 6: So aren't you deciding arbitrarily which canons you follow are
Speaker 6: not because you chose.
Speaker 4: They would have to?
Speaker 10: You know they have to, But how do you know,
Speaker 10: like when when the when the Bible was was formed
Speaker 10: as such, Bible means library, okay, and the apostles means
Speaker 10: messengers okay, And messenger is the same as angel.
Speaker 6: Angel means messenger. So like the Scripture itself uses the
Speaker 6: word angel to refer to God and to and to
Speaker 6: refer to angelic beings, to to to spiritual created beings.
Speaker 6: So when you're talking about you don't think there are
Speaker 6: apostles living today, it's like you're basically denying the possibility
Speaker 6: that God could choose somebody to speak for him through
Speaker 6: that person.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 6: So what we're saying basically is that there is a
Speaker 6: living tradition that has formed the scripture, and that the
Speaker 6: scripture that you have comes from a splintered group that
Speaker 6: decided that some of the books it didn't like and
Speaker 6: it cut them off from the from the canon. So
Speaker 6: what Jimbob is trying to to to let's say, point
Speaker 6: out is that the very canon that you have was
Speaker 6: was collected by people, and it was collected by people
Speaker 6: who wanted to revise a previously existing canon. So what
Speaker 6: he's pointing out is if you do that, you're already
Speaker 6: let's say, denying the authority that came before you. And
Speaker 6: you're saying, I'm the only authority. I'm the sole authority
Speaker 6: to decide who God is because the previous people they
Speaker 6: got it wrong. So either God lies to people or
Speaker 6: your tradition is built on nothing. What we say is no, no, no,
Speaker 6: The tradition is perfect. What Christ revealed to man was perfect.
Speaker 6: The apostles had the fullness of the faith, and the
Speaker 6: canon was built up through time, collected through time through
Speaker 6: divine inspiration. And that tradition, the tradition that was able
Speaker 6: to collect the different writings which were let's say, separated
Speaker 6: by sometimes hundreds of years in time. Like that tradition,
Speaker 6: not only is it alive, but it's actually necessary as
Speaker 6: a belief for us to call ourselves Christian. Like, if
Speaker 6: we are Christian, then we believe that Christ revealed himself
Speaker 6: to a church and that church is living. And I
Speaker 6: get the attempt to want to say, well, it's a
Speaker 6: community of believers, and you only know if they believe
Speaker 6: in their heart. But the reality is the church has
Speaker 6: definite boundary. And if you're saying, well, I'm going to
Speaker 6: choose these teachings but not those teachings, you've already gone
Speaker 6: way way out of line from the tradition. Like you're
Speaker 6: not in the tradition already, if you feel that you
Speaker 6: have the authority to go against what the tradition has
Speaker 6: already stated.
Speaker 1: Also, there's a contradiction, Rocky, even if you gave yourself
Speaker 1: that advantage, you know, you called it an advantage, you'd
Speaker 1: be like, well, I don't need to hold these these
Speaker 1: past traditions, this past authority, whatever you come to as
Speaker 1: the truth, Rocky, of the the truth of the matter
Speaker 1: of being a Christian in practice, the moment you practice
Speaker 1: and teach it and try to preserve it. That's just
Speaker 1: a new tradition that you're creating. It's innovation. We call
Speaker 1: it innovation. And so it's not like you'd be doing
Speaker 1: anything different than before anyway, you just be inconsistent with
Speaker 1: the past. But as far as Prince on principle, the
Speaker 1: principle of the argument is you're not actually against tradition,
Speaker 1: because no matter what you come to as the conclusion
Speaker 1: of the practice of religion, as soon as you teach
Speaker 1: it and preserve it and try to like teach it
Speaker 1: and push it down through generations, that's you got a
Speaker 1: tradition there. So the only question is is it consistent?
Speaker 1: Is a coherent does it actually can you track it
Speaker 1: back to the Apostles? Well, you if there was a
Speaker 1: church rocky, no matter how you felt about it, no
Speaker 1: matter how you felt about it, if there was a
Speaker 1: church that could literally track its lineage back to the
Speaker 1: Apostles with documentation, does that hold any weight for you?
Speaker 4: But everybody claims that No, not everyone claims that. Well,
Speaker 4: I don't know. Yeah, I'm agreeing with a lot of
Speaker 4: what you say about traditions and stuff, and I'm just
Speaker 4: trying to learn some stuff.
Speaker 1: Sure, I'm not here.
Speaker 4: I'm not saying you guys are wrong and that I'm right.
Speaker 4: I don't know. You guys make a lot of logical
Speaker 4: and reasonable thanks.
Speaker 1: I mean argument, have you ever attended.
Speaker 4: Scriptures? Are logical and reasonable?
Speaker 1: They are? I Have you ever attended a divine liturgy
Speaker 1: at an Orthodox church? No? Okay, Well, I mean I
Speaker 1: know that the panel sphere, and debating this and the
Speaker 1: truth of matter and all this stuff can can lead
Speaker 1: us into just like just propositional circles. But if you
Speaker 1: were interested and things made sense to you, and you
Speaker 1: wanted uh to experience a participat like a participatory element
Speaker 1: of Orthodox Christianity. Being that both Ivan and I are
Speaker 1: defending it, my my invitation to you is just go
Speaker 1: and experience it, because you it's not wouldn't be about
Speaker 1: debating the truth of the matter. I just just tell
Speaker 1: you that there's another.
Speaker 4: I'll check going out. I've been to almost other church and.
Speaker 1: Make sure it's a Russian or Greek Orthodox Okay, all right.
Speaker 6: Also, what I would add is tradition.
Speaker 1: Okay, you can read the I'll read this really quick. Sorry,
Speaker 1: easy raider eleven twenty bucks, thank you. I married a
Speaker 1: Mormon girl. I converted her. I grew up without religion,
Speaker 1: but after the process of joining the LDS Church, I
Speaker 1: now believe in Jesus Christ, but not the church. Through
Speaker 1: me learning, I have discovered Orthodoxy. He then asks, how
Speaker 1: do I approach the truth with my very devout wife?
Speaker 1: Very slowly and start to go and slowly but surely
Speaker 1: you share your experience and the value you're getting in
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. You know, obviously, talk to your priest.
Speaker 1: If you end up an easy writer Raider, start attending.
Speaker 1: Don't ask people online like me necessarily, but your priest
Speaker 1: will tell you the way in which you do that.
Speaker 1: For me, Honestly, easy Rader, I had to, Uh, it
Speaker 1: took three years. Now I just finally did my lifetime
Speaker 1: confession this morning, uh for a preparation for baptism in May.
Speaker 1: And Megan and I had to actually go through a
Speaker 1: longer process just together because she comes from a very
Speaker 1: Protestant view. I came from a mixed view in practice,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't just like some simple insert like a
Speaker 1: like a Legos It wasn't like a Lego set. There's
Speaker 1: you have to use like patients. It is a big
Speaker 1: it's a big jump, it's a culture shock, it's it's
Speaker 1: a lot of things. So easier Rader, I could only say,
Speaker 1: talk to your your priest as you start attending, and honestly,
Speaker 1: maybe don't even anticipate contention. Maybe sometimes our anticipation of
Speaker 1: contention is sometimes they just follow you, know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Sometimes they just follow you. So yeah, anything that you
Speaker 1: want to add on that I even being.
Speaker 6: No, no, no, that that was perfect, that was perfect.
Speaker 6: I wanted I wanted to address some concerns that Rocky had.
Speaker 6: I mean, tradition means literally what is received. So if
Speaker 6: you think about the relationship between man and God in
Speaker 6: the beginning, when God created Adam, like Adam walked with God, right,
Speaker 6: and the there is like a there is a loss
Speaker 6: of communion. Okay, man falls, but it's not like we
Speaker 6: fall and everything that man did was wrong. Right, there
Speaker 6: is a progressive fall like Adam falls, but then Caine
Speaker 6: falls even farther away, right, and Cane's descended, kidd, And like,
Speaker 6: this means that basically there is a tradition. Let's say
Speaker 6: that because if humanity had completely fallen outside let's say
Speaker 6: of God, like we would have destroyed ourselves. And that
Speaker 6: is what that is what the flood was meant to do. Right,
Speaker 6: the flood was meant to purify mankind because things had
Speaker 6: been progressively getting worse and worse. But then let's say,
Speaker 6: Noah saved a kernel of that tradition of that, let's
Speaker 6: say relationship with God. Now we orthodox, we believe that
Speaker 6: we are saved. Let's say together because we humans, we
Speaker 6: relate to each other, and we aren't like you were
Speaker 6: making an emphasis on let's say call no manfather or
Speaker 6: the idea that that like we we cannot have let's
Speaker 6: say a human a human authority on top of us.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 6: But the reality is that if we're in relationship with
Speaker 6: one another, like, we are learning from other people constantly,
Speaker 6: and the fact that we're limited means that we actually
Speaker 6: need the other person to compliment us, to teach us
Speaker 6: what we don't know, because we cannot approach God by ourselves, right,
Speaker 6: we don't have it in us to let's say, deify ourselves.
Speaker 6: We are deified. We are let's say, participating in God
Speaker 6: through our relationship with other people.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 6: And it is in that sense that the tradition fully
Speaker 6: let's say it was never lost, never lost completely. Why
Speaker 6: because if it was lost completely, then we would have
Speaker 6: been obliterated, like if humanity had completely fallen out of
Speaker 6: favor from God, like God would have like destroyed humanity
Speaker 6: and started over. Why, Like God himself tells Moses, like, look,
Speaker 6: you're Israelites. I can like make them out of mud
Speaker 6: if they don't repent, so like go make sure and
Speaker 6: then goes Moses goes down the mountain, he breaks down
Speaker 6: the tablets, and he like obliterates half the camp. That
Speaker 6: is like fallen into idolatry. So like God doesn't need
Speaker 6: anything from us, but he knows that we need him,
Speaker 6: so he allows us, let's say, to get progressively closer
Speaker 6: to him or to move away from him up to
Speaker 6: a certain limit. So what you're saying about not having anybody,
Speaker 6: let's say, above us, it's kind of very individualistic. It's like,
Speaker 6: I don't have anything above me, but I can be
Speaker 6: my own head, right, And the reality is no man
Speaker 6: can do that. Like if you're in if you want
Speaker 6: to be consistent, then you have to admit that you
Speaker 6: yourself cannot let's say, deify yourself, that you yourself cannot say, oh,
Speaker 6: I've got it, because then you would be repeating what
Speaker 6: Eve did. You would be repeating what Adam and Eve did,
Speaker 6: which is like I'm simply grabbing, grabbing. Let's say, the
Speaker 6: fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, and the
Speaker 6: idea of participating in Christ's mystical body is that we
Speaker 6: can eat Christ. Christ is in the place of the
Speaker 6: knowledge of good and evil, but now we're taking it
Speaker 6: in humility. Letting God, like you said, be our head,
Speaker 6: but also through a people. Right, so the church, like
Speaker 6: nobody in the church is perfect. Nobody in the church
Speaker 6: says I'm perfect, because the moment you say I'm perfect,
Speaker 6: I'm already a saint, you're clearly in delusion. A true
Speaker 6: saint will not say, oh, I'm saved, I'm saved. I'm saved,
Speaker 6: and you I have no idea, or everybody is saved. No, no, no.
Speaker 6: If you say everybody saved or I'm saved, what you're
Speaker 6: saying is basically, I don't have to do anything. I've
Speaker 6: already got it in the bag. I don't have anything
Speaker 6: more to learn like I've got it, and I don't
Speaker 6: care what your opinion is. I have nothing to learn
Speaker 6: from you, like you cut yourself from communion.
Speaker 1: For instance, Rocky, this morning, I asked my priest about
Speaker 1: to reflect on when where he was at when he converted,
Speaker 1: and he laughed at me and then he said I
Speaker 1: he said converted past tense. He said, I'm still converting.
Speaker 1: So a perfect example of like this ongoing it's just
Speaker 1: like this ongoing path. There's no like I got there.
Speaker 1: I attained all the knowledge in this sort of thing.
Speaker 1: But Rocky, I'm I'm glad I have to start wrapping this.
Speaker 1: I'm really glad that you were open to the back
Speaker 1: and forth and that you allow me to use my
Speaker 1: humor to mock you. I don't know what I would
Speaker 1: do without it, Rocky, consider it my weakness, but I'm
Speaker 1: glad you're open to it. So wherever you are located,
Speaker 1: maybe you can contact other people in your area. If
Speaker 1: you want to attend a divine liturgy, just as a viewer,
Speaker 1: you'll have to do nothing. You're not going to be
Speaker 1: asked to do anything but observe and experience. It may
Speaker 1: again make it Antiochian or Greek Orthodox. And I would
Speaker 1: love for you to call back in and just tell
Speaker 1: us even your concerns or things you liked it didn't like.
Speaker 1: I would love to have you back on after you
Speaker 1: do that and tell us all about it.
Speaker 4: All right, all right, I'm gonna check it out, all right, Thanks.
Speaker 1: Rocky, Ivan. Do you have anything last to say? Uh
Speaker 1: before I getend the stream?
Speaker 6: No, thank you for having me, Jimbob, It's always a pleasure. Congress.
Speaker 1: Every cleaner, I haven't, Yvonne, you look cleaner.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've been working. I've been working a lot.
Speaker 1: Okay, good? Maybe yeah, I live Northern Idaho area, Northern Idaho. Okay,
Speaker 1: there's definitely something there, there's something. Someone help out, Rocky.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you have a channel, help out Rocky,
Speaker 1: and maybe in the comments of this video once it posts, Rocky,
Speaker 1: you can check the the comments and someone will direct you.
Speaker 1: Northern Idaho shouldn't have a problem finding something.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: All right, With that said, I'm gonna end a stream.
Speaker 1: Take you guys down. Thank you so much, both of you.
Speaker 1: Appreciate you both, and until next time, audios, God bless
Speaker 1: you all, and find another location. I don't actually I
Speaker 1: can do a transfer from here. I think I think
Speaker 1: I might as well. There's there's five hundred something of you.
Speaker 8: You.
Speaker 1: You have two minutes to reach that enormous, greedy goal
Speaker 1: that I put up there a red super chat. It
Speaker 1: just feels nice when there's a red one in there.
Speaker 1: It just makes me feel good like the Mormons, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It makes me feel Mormon for
Speaker 1: a second. All right, who do we got here? Who
Speaker 1: do we have here? Who's up? Who's up for a transfer?
Speaker 1: Who we got here? W in the chat for Rocky
Speaker 1: saying he'll go check it out. I mean that's more
Speaker 1: than I can. That's better to me than anyone understanding
Speaker 1: like energy essence. Honestly, that's better for me. That's better.
Speaker 1: Let's see what we got, Donovan Sharp Thorpe TV. Come on, Polo,
Speaker 1: let's go to apologetics. I need them to like me
Speaker 1: a little bit. Okay, Apologetics Road Tour. I'm trying to
Speaker 1: win them over a little bit. Here you go, Jason
Speaker 1: casselsie I actually spelt as set his name correct. It
Speaker 1: seems though the higher the super chat, the better I read.
Speaker 1: Have you guys noticed that, Jason Cassell, thank you huge
Speaker 1: super Chat. Here you go, getting better at the grift.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I really appreciate that. Shout out to Andrew
Speaker 1: for teaching the ways. I don't know why he does
Speaker 1: a debate instructional video. Why is he doing a debate
Speaker 1: instruction video? Isn't it obvious what the instructional video needs
Speaker 1: to be? Yeah, you got a good point. There, you
Speaker 1: got a good point, got a grift, got a grift,
Speaker 1: and you're all heading over to that other channel. Be well,
Speaker 1: m God bless y'all. See you. What is it Wednesday?
Speaker 1: I guess I'll see you maybe Friday, something like that.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. Ye, let's do this, but.
Speaker 11: But boom boom boom boom boom.
Speaker 1: Boom gay m
Speaker 11: Gay boom mm gay oom mm hmm, bombs bums and