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Speaker 1: Baptizing. Yeah, he's oh, this is a question. Is the

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canon scripture open?

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Speaker 2: No, I don't think the canon is open. It was closed,

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you could say, in a loose sense in terms of

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the Sixth Ecumenical Council, the Seventh Ecumenical Council and its

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affirmations of Trollo and Carthage. But in the Orthodox Church

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there's flexibility in the sense of like tradition in the

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you know, proto Evangelian James, or tradition in the Book

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of Nach or you know. It's not the way that

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a Protestant thinks of the canon being closed, like there's

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nothing else that's quote tradition or acceptable, because the early

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Church is even pretty late in the game, had minor

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variations in what they accepted in terms of the Old

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and New Testament. So not in the way that a

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Protestant thinks. But in the Orthodox sense, yes, there's a

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loose in other words, even for the few books that

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were somewhat disputed, like the Letters of Clement, which some

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church fathers thought is part of the New Testament. Like

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we're not going to say that you're you know, if

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you had a tradition in your in your church, like

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that that you included, Oh, you're outside the church because

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I mean, those books are still part of the Orthodox tradition.

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Clement's a you know, church father and a Saint Clement

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of Rome, but we don't include our New Testament, and

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so in that sense there's flexibility. But I wouldn't call

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that an open canon as if there would be any

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new books. Does that make sense?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a good thing to tackle Orthodox Amongst

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five dollars. I saw an interview with an elderly gentleman

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who was in Mormon. At one point he said that

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there were some Satanist elements with Mormonism. You want to

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answer to that.

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Speaker 2: There are. I don't know exactly how widespread it is,

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but we just covered a few months ago in my

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podcast with Chiller Queen on my channel. She went really

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deep into the David Hambling case and that is a

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recent Mormon SR case.

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Speaker 1: Yes, interesting Extangley twenty bucks. Could there ever be a

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situation in the present day where public divine revelation would

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be implemented, for example, after catastrophic, near civilization ending incidents.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't see why we would need that. I mean,

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I think the attitude, the assumption of the New Testament

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and the Church Fathers is typically that we have what

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we need until the end and there won't be a

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need for new public divine revelation.

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Speaker 3: I've never heard anybody argue for that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Stangley is like pushing to like if

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there was a scenario where it was almost like you

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were pressured to make a declaration of what there is

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to do from that point on, given that it's never existed,

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like the conditions never existed, Like would it would it

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sort of like provocate something? But I don't know. I

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wouldn't see how that would provocate, uh, something that would

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be called a revelation rather than like a collective approach

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to how to respond to the reality that you're in,

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which I don't see how there would be any extra

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anything extra, Like Jay said, everything you need for practice

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we have already. Even in the circumstances that are that

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are dire and overwhelming and horrific, we still have what

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you would be prescribed as the practice of Christianity, right

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even if even meant death was ahead.

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Speaker 2: If you read the little book from the Jordanville Monastery

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that's put out called Apostacy and Antichrist, which is just

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a collection of statements from church fathers and saints and

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elders about the end times. There's nothing like that in there.

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It's the assumption is that we have everything that we

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need for that time, and the Church, through the presence

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of the Holy Spirit in the church, will know what

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to do in that time.

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Speaker 3: But it wouldn't require new revelations.

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Speaker 1: Mmmm. Fabian five Bucks says, would you say that the

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marry apparitions of Magidori, Yeah, edjugory add to the public

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divine revelation.

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Speaker 2: In the Roman Catholic system. I think you definitely could

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make this argument, because even though they technically believe that

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public divine revelation ceased with the death of John the Apostle,

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the practice and attitude of many Roman Catholics, even amongst

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the clerics, definitely treats so called Marian apparitions and fatom

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of visions and claims and magic glory claims like divine revelation.

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In fact, I would argue many Roman Catholics actually treat

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Mariyan stuff above scripture and divine revelation.

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Speaker 1: Interesting extantly made a clarification here he said, what I

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I mean is if the traditions, oh, if the tradition

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was lost, like all knowledge of practice was lost. That

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wouldn't mean all people were lost, though, I guess the

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hypothetical extanglee would be like within let's say Orthodoxy, if

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if everyone died, Jay, I guess the better question is,

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is everyone who claimed to be Orthodox and practiced Orthodoxy,

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who was baptized into Orthodoxy didn't exist, but other people existed?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 5: Is that that?

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Speaker 3: No, I would say.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Matthew sixteen promises that the Church cannot be

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extinguished even to the end of the world. So when

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Christ returns, there will still be an episcopacy, episcope bishops

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that are faithful to the teaching and to the end

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of the world. So we agree with the Roman Catholics

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on that principle. Romancalics just restrict that to the papacy.

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We actually don't think that the papacy has given any

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special promises, but there will always be true, real episcopate

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ruling bishops to the return of Christ.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, even if there were like three or so some thing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it could be extinctly reduced to a very

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small number in a great apostacy.

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Speaker 3: That's possible.

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Speaker 1: Yet, Yeah, because when I see the word tradition. I

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can't really separate that from the people who hold the

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knowledge in the history. So what is tradition If it's

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not that? Let me see what else I got here,

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Jordan five bucks. Most things I learned about Mormonism came

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from South Park and the musical those guys made. I

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appreciate you all discussing it either. It was great. Jay.

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I don't know if you ever.

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Speaker 2: I've never seen the full thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so funny. It's just so funny.

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Speaker 3: Does it Does it actually go into a lot of

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what we talked about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's more superficial. It won't get as in depth.

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But as far as the amount of laughter per minute turnover,

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it's the highest I've ever seen, including any stand up

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comedy I've ever seen. Oh wow, it's so funny and

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well executed. Well. Manuel another thirty dollars thirty paces endless

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celestial superchat goals. Thank you so much for that. You

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guys again, we're at thirty six of fifty of the

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next goal. I am giving Jay Dyer here half of

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the super chats today. Why because I'm outsourcing the knowledge

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of Mormonism and I'm presenting it to you guys. So

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he's earning his keep, so make sure you give him

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the grift money that he deserves for coming over here

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and teaching us some things. Okay. H. Brosse nineteen ninety

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nine For Jay, I saw that interaction with the Redhead

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Libertarian chick on Twitter. Libertarians are just Americanist Muslims. Interesting.

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I've never heard that term. Ask them an epistemic question

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and they just point back to what you ask them to. Justin,

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are you talking about who used to be like the

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wasn't she usually wasn't the redded Libertarian, the sort of

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like promoter or booker for Tim Poole? Or am I

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confusing though with someone else she's been on there?

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I think she hosted debates and stuff

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and we were dming and I was trying to set

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up a debate and then I don't know if I

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made her mat or what. But we've been trying while

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to set up various debates on there, so I'm definitely

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down for it. But uh, yeah, I just think that

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you know, as as you know, as we've talked about

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many times, people don't know what is meant by justifications.

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If you question a person's assertions as to what self evident.

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Enlightenment principles are rights, you know, lockey in ideas, like,

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you know, you ask them what's the justification for that?

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They think you mean in a colloquial sense, like you

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don't have none to back that up, you know what

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I mean. No, that's not what justification means. Justification means

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j TB, etcetera. Right, So they just assume that you're

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saying that there's no reasonablyieve those things, and then they'll

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say stuff like, you know, she said something like did

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you read the preamble and the Declaration of Independence? And

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look with the look where the church fathers went through

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or another church, well, their church fathers went through, how

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does them go to?

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Speaker 1: And Shapiro's church fathers are definitely the founding fathers, that's true.

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They they kind of work, they make basically sort of

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make the Constitution some sort of new divine oh yeah thing.

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And by the.

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Speaker 2: Way, Mormons believe very similarly that like the Constitution is

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divinely inspired, that it's like the Mormon Church because it's

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in America. America's just hollowed brown and they have the

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what you heard me say, the White Horse prophecy. Right, Yeah,

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Mormons are going to save America in the Constitution.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's so weird, so boomery, it's like it

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totally is. Yeah, Aaron Cumple for ninety nine. I wanted

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to hear Jay's thoughts on the Seventh Day Adventism. I

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come from a family of SDA members in the origins

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of it are pretty wacky. You want to riff on

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that for a second.

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Speaker 2: Well, again, there's no new revelations. And if that's the case,

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that immediately cut crosses out Ellen White because Ellen White

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was a charismatic. She believed in new charismatic divine revelation

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as all the cults tend to do, much like Joseph Smith,

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much like new revelations to mohamm And by the way,

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remember in the Hadiths, Mohammed thought he was possessed because

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he would fall down having these seemingly epileptic fits when

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he was getting his revelations, and he had to be

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convinced by other persons that he wasn't demonically possessed. Now,

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if you look at the Great Awakening, when Jonathan Edwards

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starts preaching his you know, sentners in the hands of

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an angry God, you have America's first outbreak of charismatic

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events where people start talking gibberish, flopping on the ground.

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They think they're getting possessed. So the manifestations are very

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similar between what is epilepsy possession and charismatic gifts.

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Speaker 3: And manifestations you see.

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Speaker 2: And it's no different with other cults like Seven Day

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Adventism in the sense that when Ellen White starts preaching

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her new revelation, she thinks that it's new divine revelations

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from the Holy Spirit. So again, if you go watch

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my I'm gonna clip it out because it needs to

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be clipped. Zechrai thirteen says in the Messianic era, there's

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no more prophets. Prophets are done Jude three, Jami thirteen,

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Dieramy eighteen, Galatians one, Relations twenty two. All these loops

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sixteen sixteen, all these passages make it clear that there's

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a finality to the work of Christ and the teaching

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of the apostles, such that it doesn't continue to get updates.

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It's done.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, crash Man another two bucks JW. Believe that Michael

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is pre post Jesus on Earth.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Michael the archangel. They think that that's Jesus.

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Speaker 1: Right, I mean, why not just throw that in there.

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Jack ten Bucks says, jay is the energy's essence distinction,

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implying that the energies are distinct from God's essence. And

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would you consider distinction a deliberate portioning of God into

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composite parts.

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Speaker 2: No, Just like every church father that defended the trinity,

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when they talk about the distinction between the hypostases the persons,

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they point out that a distinction between the Father and

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the son does not entail composition or division, and so

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complex unities are something that the church fathers, particularly the Cappadocians,

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dealt with all the time when they were refuting Aryan

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and Eunomian arguments about the necessity of simplicity or divine simplicity,

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such that if you took the Plutonian Platinus distinction or

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definition as to what simplicity is, Platinus says that any

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distinction entels composition. Well, obviously that doesn't work with the trinity.

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So the Cappadotionans, just from the outset, rejected that model

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of what simplicity is, and so they define simplicity in

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terms of first and foremost, God is simple because he's

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noncomposite and he's acts and is not acted upon. Secondly,

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the distinctions in God are not parts, They're not com

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He's not composed as if he's put together. But it

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is a transcendent unity that was always the case in

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such that the persons in dwell one another and the

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divine nature in dwells the person's fully in a impartial way.

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That it's a unique relationship in terms of the trinity.

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So if that's true of the hypostaces. The Cappadocians themselves

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also argued, as does Palamas, the distinction between God and

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his works, or his actions or his operations is no

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more a composition relationship than are the persons.

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Speaker 1: Right, And just to be clear, an essence or a

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nature doesn't do anything, so it would never be the

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thing a what like if we said God, what is God?

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Is a different question of who is God? And how

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how does God act? But is there it wouldn't be

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one to one analogous. But isn't there a couple examples

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in our created reality of distinction without separation people use

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are like.

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Speaker 2: The Cappadocian argument at this very point is if a

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person builds a house, right, you would think of them

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doing an action that involves something proper to their nature.

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So a human being working to build a house and

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put rooms and this, and that I'm the person, Jay,

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My nature is human nature. It's a fully human action,

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proper too and consistent with my nature to build a house.

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I'm fully present in every action and work or energy

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that I use to build a house. But I am

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not reducible to or identical to the action of building

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a house, nor the energy that I use to build

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that house. And the Cappa docs use that very argument

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to say that God builds or creates a world. It's

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the energy of creating that is proper to doing that

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proper to a divine being and proper to that divine nature.

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But that divine nature is not identical to creating a world,

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because if it was, you would have a modal collapse argument.

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Because God's essence or nature is eternal and simple and necessary,

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then creating would also be eternal, simple and necessary. That

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would deny God's free will. That's the motal collapse argument.

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And so God is fully present in every one of

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his actions or energies without being reducible to them and

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without having parts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good example. Jack, you're a musician. When

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I talk to Chase, who explained exactly what Jad did.

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He use the music itself in place of let's say

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the house argument, where you're a human and I'm a human, Jack,

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and we share a nature, but we don't share the

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same musical expression. There's a distinction between the two, and

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so I think once people get distinction without separation, then

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that question Jack, which is common. I'm sure Jay's heard

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it maybe fifty thousand times at this point, but for

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anyone who hasn't heard it, I'm glad that you did

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ask it, Jack, because it's an important question. Even if

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you have covered it seven thousand billion times like that.

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Speaker 2: It's okay. And I mean where you know, there's many

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places in scripture. If you read the dial the debate

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between a dialogue between a Barlemite and Orthodox by palain Os,

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one of the first texts that comes up is God

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rested from the work of creating. There's some way in

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which God did a unique, specific action to create the

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world and then did not continue to create, because.

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Speaker 1: It's not unlike the Muslim God, who it's in his

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nature to be ever generating, so he can't not create, correct,

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Like if there was a God, who's whose nature was ever.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you would think that they would say that,

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but they don't. It's it's difficult to translate the modal

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collapse argument to the Muslims because they don't think of

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Allah as pure act, but Catholics do so. But the

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other passage is that we read in the scriptures that

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there's seven spirits of God. Nobody believes that the Holy

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Spirit has seven persons. There's not seven holy spirits. And

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yet we're told that there's the spirit of wisdom, knowledge,

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et cetera, and that they rested upon the Messiah when

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he became incarnate. And so the only way to explain

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the seven spirits as yet another example is to say

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that their energy is proper to the triad. So persons,

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like nobody believes they're persons, they're not creatures, because divine

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knowledge is not a creature. So the seven spirits, Palamos

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argues against Barlem have to be energies. The energies are

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also in the New Testament. Paul says many times over

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that it's the energy the Holy Spirit that are the

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gifts of the spirit, and First Corinthians uses the term inergaya.

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It's in the Greek, so it's a New Testament teaching,

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it's an Old Testament teaching. Likewise, this is how we

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have to say often right. So this is why you saw,

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for example, Thomas collapsing in the last few months, because

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they can't admit that there's the Ofphane's in the Old Testament,

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because in their view, God is absolutely simple. He can't

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be in time and space, and so they have to

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say that the aims of the Lord that the often

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is in the Old Testament Leviticus, not the glory manifest

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him before all Israel. They have to say, that's a creature,

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but it's called God's glory. God's Glory's not a creature.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Interesting, Yeah, all that. Thank you for that question though,

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Jack appreciate it. John Castle are so damn I keep there.

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I have two castles who follow me, and I just

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keep mistaking their names. Jason, Jason, thank you so much,

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very generous, whopping one hundred dollars. W's in the chat

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for Jason Kassel. Joseph Smith visited me last night and

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made me the new prophet. I was given tablets. This

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time they were platinum, Yeah, the heavy dense metal. This

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time they state sorry, guys, I was wrong become Orthodox.

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They are correct, it was a mistranslation. Better luck next time.

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Joey Schmidty, thank you so much. That's hilarious.

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Speaker 2: I don't see why we couldn't, you know, have this right.

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I mean, if if prior revelation can be wrong, uh,

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why can't the new revelation also be wrong?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Well it's similar, like in it's not it's not

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entirely similar, but it's a kind of a funny uh

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clapback at people who are determinists, like a Calvinist, and

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they ask, you know, if they ever asked me, why

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did I choose uh to uh become baptized in Orthodoxy,

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they already have the answer. I was determined to. So

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same thing with Muslims. I asked them. Instead of debating

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to the high level that I can't do anyway that

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Jay does with this stuff, I just asked these like

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more like I don't know, more broad questions to these

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people and say, don't you believe that Allah dictated that

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I reject Islam? I mean, isn't that just the fact

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of the matter from your view? They really have to

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say yes, right, So I'm like, well, why are we

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debating honestly, why are we debating? I mean, if you

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want to debate nerd stuff, go to Jay's channel. But ultimately,

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I'm just gonna I'm just gonna hit you with that

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every time. L two five bucks tired of live reactions.

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No twenty five Christians versus Alex O'Connor would be cool.

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I thought he did they not do that, or I

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thought they did that.

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Speaker 3: I thought they did too.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, would you do that? Surrounded, Jubilee Jade

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Dier surrounded?

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Speaker 2: I mean the questioners are not, from what I've seen,

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very high tier. So we've already we already kind of

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do that when we open it up to the.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the formats rushed too. That's the only thing I

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don't like. I like, I like that it exists, but

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I think of about it for me, like what's required

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for like a good back and forth. Yeah, it's not

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a pressure three to five minutes with people voting you.

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I mean, that's just like, oh man, you're bound to

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make a mistake too. H Brossei four ninety nine. This

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is a reply to that super about Alex O'Connor. Please

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don't ever react to anything involving him. The Soy from

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his body permeates through the phone. I'm thinking you likely

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engage with him at some big I.

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Speaker 2: Mean I've you know, I've sent so many messages and

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emails and it always just gets ignored. So I mean,

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I I even I re messaged publicly Nole's Dave Smith

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Ben Shapiro again today and it's just it's always going

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to be ignored.

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Speaker 3: I've messaged at that guy many times too.

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Speaker 1: I think you have too much information. I think I

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think that you're just your your autistic, oversized head has

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too much information. Because they don't, they won't be able

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to like go at it at the granular level with

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with you. So maybe they just don't. They're just like

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I can't do that. I'm not going to do that

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to my Like well.

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Speaker 2: That also just from on a more practical level, like

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what do they gain from debating?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. That's a good way it look.

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You know, it's like why would even that, Like people

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have been trying to pressure inspiring philosophy to debate me

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on evolution, even if it tied into could create a

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Christian view accommodate a never changing Ultimately, it's a never changing,

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non existing human universal could that exist? It just can't.

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It just it's just like a complete disaster. There's nothing

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he could gain from debating that with someone lower on

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the on the notoriety scale, which surprised.

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Speaker 2: Me because I think that the only way that back

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you know, a few years ago, that I got del

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Hunty and Molineu to do those debates was because enough

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people eventually was in their chat.

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Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, yeah, that's the only way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And I also joked and I watched the

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who is that Greek dude? I already forgot his name?

400
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You know, he's he's a feelings based thing. We roasted

401
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him a bunch of times here on the news channel, No,

402
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the prop channel that does like the Avengers or whatever.

403
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George Jenko, Sorry, like I was, we were all laughing

404
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at one chat. I don't know if you were here.

405
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We're like, imagine Jay up there like trying to like

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navigate being nice and being accommodating with like losing your shit,

407
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but like how do you sit on the white couch

408
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and like, you know, you're grateful for the platform, but

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you're like, h like, I don't know, you know what's.

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Speaker 2: Unfair about all that too, is like you and I

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both have many times been on media platforms where it

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was conversational or interview format or you know whatever, and

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then people act like, oh you dudes, No, I give

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anybody what they want out of the exchange. So if

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you have me on a podcast to just talk, yeah,

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I mean I've done the streams with IP where we

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just went through you know, church fathers proving that they

418
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were not anti trinitarian, Like I wasn't there to debate

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that have to debate him. So it's not people pretend

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like we're these villains and the we're these awful people

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who don't actually just get people what they want.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean you've demonstrated on Tim Poole like you then

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jump in and try to do like meta attacks on

425
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all of these things, even though you could probably see

426
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the assumptions a million miles away that you can challenge.

427
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It's like, you know how to play on the particular

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platform you're on. There are some rules there. If you

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want to be invited back, you're not going.

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Speaker 2: To do this.

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Speaker 1: Put the stick in the spoke of the wheel. I mean,

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it's not good for anyone.

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Speaker 2: Ran right, like if Ruslan and he said, oh, you

434
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can come on the podcast Okay, I would be fine

435
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coming on there to do it a debate formal or informal,

436
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or just have a conversation another like, I don't demand debates.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: It's like people think that when you ask would you

439
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,920
like to do this? Then they get but hurt and

440
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,640
then they act like you're this villain. It's like, well, we.

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Speaker 1: Don't have to do that. Yeah, you could just do

442
00:24:59,799 --> 00:25:04,640
it conversation. David Murdoch art ten dollars. Thank you so much.

443
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,400
Look up Mormonism, Shadow or Reality by Gerald and Sandra

444
00:25:08,519 --> 00:25:11,160
tan or X. Mormon's books is seven hundred pages tons

445
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,559
of content. They made a pdf available online free under

446
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,519
creative comments. Yeah, the people who leave and sort of

447
00:25:18,559 --> 00:25:21,200
expose the extra stuff you might not see is kind

448
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,039
of fascinating. Honestly. Maybe the best thing with that is,

449
00:25:24,079 --> 00:25:27,200
like have someone like that on to tell tell the

450
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tales right directly. So Justin says I can be baptized

451
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,720
to whiteness. Well, Justin, you're only like, what are you

452
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like thirty one percent black? I'm not sure. I don't

453
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you wouldn't.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if they tripled that like Obama level.

455
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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I don't even know if you count

456
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,119
honestly with your own L two A two bucks will

457
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,440
Jay's live stream. Yeah, he said he's gonna clip it

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and make it.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm a clip just a fifteen minute a part,

460
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but it's it's posted as a member's talk.

461
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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, go get a membership over at Jay's. Again,

462
00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:07,759
we're at four. We got eleven to hit the goal here, folks, again,

463
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,240
fifty one minutes, plenty of time to do it. But

464
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,720
just so you know, half of the donations today the

465
00:26:12,759 --> 00:26:17,079
super chats will go to Jay for his autistic level.

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Speaker 2: You want to see if Jack wants to come on

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the debate, because this guy's asking like totally ridiculous stuff.

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Speaker 1: Oh is this it? Okay? Jack says for another ten

469
00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:27,000
there's some greatest and orthodox commenters on YouTube. What do

470
00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:32,319
you mean commenters? Commentators are commenters that break down the

471
00:26:32,319 --> 00:26:36,680
growing tide of false catech humans. I'm not sure what

472
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,480
that means, a false catechumen. There's a great video showing

473
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,200
some clown and is endorsing wicka Phase calling.

474
00:26:43,039 --> 00:26:45,759
Speaker 2: Me the clown because I was friends with Wickiphase, so

475
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:47,559
I got Wickiphase to.

476
00:26:47,519 --> 00:26:49,039
Speaker 3: Get an Orthodox study Bible.

477
00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 2: And these people are just pretending like I'm some sort

478
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:57,200
of secret WICCA, even though we've done countless podcasts against WICCA.

479
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yeah. To be fair on the internet,

480
00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:04,119
there's going to be tons of subversive activity people who

481
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,720
I mean, Jay, You've caught people on this multiple times

482
00:27:06,759 --> 00:27:09,720
where you say when did you when did you get baptized?

483
00:27:09,799 --> 00:27:12,039
Or where whatever? Whatever the pointed question.

484
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,799
Speaker 2: He's saying that I'm a false teacher, creating false Cindy

485
00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:16,160
of Cumans.

486
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 3: He's talking about me.

487
00:27:18,559 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 2: I'm the clown that he's talking about, but he doesn't

488
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,559
want he's trying to be funny.

489
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,559
Speaker 1: Okay, is that I don't know if Jack, can you

490
00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:29,960
affirm that that's what you're pointing to because it's from

491
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,000
the Diamond. Yeah, but that's silly Jack, if that's the case,

492
00:27:34,039 --> 00:27:42,400
because I'm Jay is largely influential in You're fake fake, Well,

493
00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:44,759
I don't know. There was nothing fake about the two

494
00:27:44,799 --> 00:27:49,200
hours of Lifelong Confessions I just did this morning. Piano didn't.

495
00:27:49,519 --> 00:27:53,759
That's just piano Dean five bucks. There's a clip of

496
00:27:53,759 --> 00:27:57,400
Mike Wallace asking h Who's Mike Wallace asking Mormon prophet

497
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,640
Gordon Hinckley about the black people think and his answer

498
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,359
is a total cop out. Well, I figured it's hard

499
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,799
to Yeah, yeah, that's a hard thing to engage with,

500
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,559
that one to defend. I mean, it's so brutal that

501
00:28:12,039 --> 00:28:14,640
the two thirds who stayed neutral in the vote in

502
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,920
the in the celestial vote got doomed. They're they're saying

503
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,839
you're doomed. You're doomed with your skin DCMS nine ninety nine.

504
00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:25,880
Big love for Jim, Jim, Bob and Jay. Notice more

505
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,759
Mormons in the UK lately stopped twice by missionaries last month.

506
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,519
Don't get the appeal. It's one of the more obvious

507
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,279
BS cults. Well, Jay and I briefly talked on why

508
00:28:36,319 --> 00:28:41,319
it is that's that's appealing. If it's feelings based, you know,

509
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,160
and that's the level at which you're pursuing or inquiring

510
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,359
about it, whether or not a theology or a church

511
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,200
is true. I mean, you're gonna get caught up in

512
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,319
a lot of different stuff if it's if it's just

513
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:57,039
feeling space, which I'm that's unfortunate. Extendally at ten Bucks,

514
00:28:57,039 --> 00:28:59,799
I didn't know LDS was so wild. I didn't know either.

515
00:29:00,279 --> 00:29:04,920
Now I see where Brandon Sanderson gets all his imagination from.

516
00:29:05,039 --> 00:29:08,759
It is pretty wild. Every time I was texted, I

517
00:29:08,799 --> 00:29:12,960
told you before I'm about to edit a cartoon, and

518
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,359
I was just like kind of trying to source from

519
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,759
people who are knowledgeable the most ridiculous things about Mormonism,

520
00:29:19,839 --> 00:29:21,799
and Jay was texting me things and I thought he

521
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,680
was messing with me. I thought, I was like, this

522
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,920
guy's messing with me, and he was like, no, no,

523
00:29:26,039 --> 00:29:32,880
these are these are legitimate things that they actually hold to. Spireau,

524
00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:35,680
thank you so much for your Canadian twenty dollars third

525
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,160
generation x JW. Here for thirty plus years. Wow, saw

526
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,920
everything there was to see in that religion was all involved,

527
00:29:43,079 --> 00:29:45,200
top to bottom. If you ever want to do a

528
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:48,240
JW stream and need info, I got you and then

529
00:29:48,319 --> 00:29:50,880
some have debated a few too. That's that's interesting. I

530
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,519
didn't know that about you, Spiro or Spireau. I didn't

531
00:29:54,519 --> 00:29:58,839
know that that that was your thirty years of experience. Wow.

532
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,000
The Kraken five Bucks Journal of Discourses, page two eighty

533
00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:06,200
nine says no man in this dispensation will ever enter

534
00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:08,640
into the celestial Kingdom of God without the consent of

535
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,359
Joseph Smith. Can you still get consent? That's the other

536
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,519
question I have. Jay is like, do they engage with

537
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,559
Joseph Smith in some weird way today, Like is there

538
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:24,319
like a method to them now sort of participating if

539
00:30:24,319 --> 00:30:27,799
you will, with Joseph himself. I didn't get that so far.

540
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,039
Speaker 2: You mean, like does he speak to them or yeah,

541
00:30:31,079 --> 00:30:31,279
like do.

542
00:30:31,519 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 1: They interact with him? Do they try to? Like is

543
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:34,240
there a thing?

544
00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 3: I've not heard that? But I mean he might appear

545
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,920
in a vision who does well?

546
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: Who knows? Yeah, h rowsy five bucks? No, No, not dash.

547
00:30:45,119 --> 00:30:47,799
I'm talking about the Jehovah witness chick. Oh before he

548
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,400
asked about this, that Jehovah Witness check. You asked you

549
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,960
a question and didn't have an answer for when you

550
00:30:53,039 --> 00:30:56,720
were younger. Those are more recent streams Jehovah witnesses.

551
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,759
Speaker 2: This is when I was like eighteen, like I was

552
00:30:58,759 --> 00:31:01,680
just what got me into apologetics was just when I

553
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,359
was like eighteen and some Joe's Witness girl asked me

554
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,240
about Versus and I didn't know what they meant because

555
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,640
she was teaching that, you know, Jesus is a creature,

556
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,319
He's not some of god.

557
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: Weird sis and urcane five bucks. If you become quote

558
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,920
God in the Mormon sense, you get all the green

559
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,000
yellow and decaffeinated soda you want. I mean it is

560
00:31:22,039 --> 00:31:27,079
it's like it's like it's like modern consumerist Islam, so

561
00:31:27,279 --> 00:31:28,599
they just swap out the products.

562
00:31:29,079 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: That's a good question, Like do you get to like

563
00:31:31,119 --> 00:31:35,240
bypass the absurd legalisms if you're a god?

564
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:42,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, that that's just it's insane. Rocky Shepherd five Bucks.

565
00:31:42,119 --> 00:31:45,759
I think we are in Satan's Little Reason of Revelations

566
00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:50,880
twenty seven through eight. The tribe of Millennial Rain are over.

567
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:59,240
I don't know about that. No, nothing unknown TSJ five Bucks,

568
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,000
E Joey Smith, Joey Smith, New Jersey Italian mobster. Have

569
00:32:03,039 --> 00:32:05,160
you guys seen the South Park episode about Joey Boy?

570
00:32:05,279 --> 00:32:07,440
Kind of funny? I didn't see that. I think I

571
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,200
need to get caught up on South Bark. I don't

572
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:11,279
know why it's hard for me to watch things, honestly,

573
00:32:11,839 --> 00:32:14,640
I can't. Is there anything you watch, Jay that's like

574
00:32:15,599 --> 00:32:18,720
consistent where you're like, that's my thing, I watch that,

575
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:19,039
you're all?

576
00:32:19,519 --> 00:32:22,359
Speaker 2: I mean, I kind of Jamie and I kind of

577
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:26,400
cycle through some of the same shows that we've watched.

578
00:32:26,599 --> 00:32:29,640
So the most recent show that we watched was Parks

579
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,759
and rec because I never finished it. Back when it

580
00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:33,119
was on. I got all the way up to like

581
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:38,279
season four, So I mean, I appreciate that it's pretty funny.

582
00:32:38,319 --> 00:32:41,000
But other than that, I mean Mystery Science Theater, X File,

583
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,680
psych Riff tracks about It's about what I watch.

584
00:32:45,799 --> 00:32:49,519
Speaker 1: You've ever watched something that's just like so horrifically bad

585
00:32:50,039 --> 00:32:52,519
just for the sake of seeing how cringe it is?

586
00:32:52,559 --> 00:32:55,119
Like you know, Paradise Island, you know like those Yeah,

587
00:32:55,119 --> 00:32:59,839
we watched shows. Yeah, so those are like it's like

588
00:32:59,839 --> 00:33:01,920
a week week spot for me where I'm just like,

589
00:33:02,039 --> 00:33:05,039
can I see Because there's always these like sort of

590
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:10,440
dating slash. I guess you would call them experiments, like

591
00:33:11,359 --> 00:33:15,839
actual social experiments. Right, They're kind of weird, but you

592
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,880
just can't look away. Uh tears, sword arm ten bucks.

593
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,839
Mormons believe that there are more religious than everyone else. Right.

594
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,640
Their final retreat is when all historical arguments and logic

595
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,440
fail them, as by their fruits, yay shall know them.

596
00:33:29,759 --> 00:33:31,519
I don't know how they get into it, dude, I

597
00:33:31,519 --> 00:33:33,279
don't know how you I can see how people are

598
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,559
raised Mormon and leave I can't. I still can't. I'm

599
00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:38,920
trying to figure out how someone actually just goes Yeah,

600
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,759
I'm wanna go in. I'm gonna go in. From what

601
00:33:40,839 --> 00:33:46,119
I heard, I don't know. Ask a couple questions. It's done,

602
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,200
big cheese. Five bucks. Are you guys familiar with the

603
00:33:48,319 --> 00:33:51,359
huge amount of land the LDS, Yes, land buys it.

604
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,480
In fact, Jay just did a stream where he covered

605
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,680
the influence was it the CIA and other things? That

606
00:33:59,599 --> 00:33:59,720
was it?

607
00:33:59,759 --> 00:34:03,519
Speaker 2: The same how of it? But I mean, yeah, we

608
00:34:03,559 --> 00:34:05,680
talked to I just sort of stream on them being

609
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,920
a giant corporation and hedgephon.

610
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: Four hundred acres. Yeah, I mean four hundred thousand acres.

611
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:15,760
If you're seen as a corporation, that's kind of what

612
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,280
you would do. You just like make your religion a

613
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,360
set of assets and and you know, from that view,

614
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:24,519
why wouldn't you If you can get people to believe

615
00:34:24,559 --> 00:34:28,920
that theology. I'm they're not going to be suddenly surprised

616
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,480
by a corporate structure. I don't. I don't see why

617
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,639
they would bend five bucks, corn ob X, the Great

618
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,000
Divine Bang check mark. I like this new format, Ben,

619
00:34:41,039 --> 00:34:43,719
I haven't seen that the X and the check mark

620
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,599
President Sandown are five bucks. Let's be honest. Your shoulders

621
00:34:46,599 --> 00:34:49,400
are normal. It's your huge that's what I argue. I say,

622
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,760
I have a TV head, it's not my shoulders. My

623
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,840
friends disagree. They actually say, well, no, you got. It's

624
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,559
kind of a bad combination of both. I basically have

625
00:34:58,679 --> 00:35:03,320
the silhouette of Peter English. Unfortunately, uh, George ten Bucks.

626
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,719
With these cults, it seems like people in leadership inherit

627
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,440
great wealth and an organization and assume they must be

628
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,960
doing something right. JW jws also have a lot of

629
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,480
property investments worldwide. Yeah, there's nothing actually you mentioned this

630
00:35:17,559 --> 00:35:20,280
on your stream, Jay, that was nothing actually wrong with

631
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,800
the ownership of things. It's just that it's the the

632
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,599
identity of the corporation is indistinguishable from the church, right,

633
00:35:27,679 --> 00:35:28,039
that's the.

634
00:35:28,039 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 2: Churches are corporations. They have a host of shell corporations

635
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:33,000
and hedge.

636
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: Funds right right.

637
00:35:34,639 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 3: And the megachurches model that same structure.

638
00:35:37,199 --> 00:35:40,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it works for people, for the for the people, you'd,

639
00:35:40,559 --> 00:35:44,519
I guess you'd call them weird faux parishioners justin Henley

640
00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:47,760
five bucks. According to the Hadith, some seventy of one's

641
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,440
wives are plucked from the lake of fire. Well, you

642
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,840
can pick your you know, picked from the fire. So

643
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:58,880
two quote good Muslima and seventy purified Kafirs. Yeah, the hadiths.

644
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,880
You've debated so many Muslims. Some of them go, well, no,

645
00:36:02,679 --> 00:36:06,639
the hadiths are these secondary set of things that people wrote.

646
00:36:06,679 --> 00:36:09,079
They don't have to all make sense to No.

647
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,079
Speaker 2: I mean many of the if it's sahiblhari, they have

648
00:36:12,159 --> 00:36:16,079
to believe it because those are strong. Oh. Interesting, see

649
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,000
there are classes of them. There's weak ones and strong ones.

650
00:36:19,039 --> 00:36:21,559
But you don't if you're sunny, you don't get to say,

651
00:36:21,559 --> 00:36:22,159
oh I don't believe.

652
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you can't a raw dog five dollars. Have

653
00:36:26,039 --> 00:36:29,239
you seen Ron Wyatt's video about testing the blood of

654
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,159
Jesus from the shroud? If so, what are your fast

655
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,119
I haven't seen that. I haven't covered the shroud thing

656
00:36:33,199 --> 00:36:35,760
at all. I have no access or knowledge.

657
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,039
Speaker 3: I just don't find any stuff convincing. I don't like.

658
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 2: This is like the domain of like Roman Catholics just

659
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,159
love this stuff. They go create trap.

660
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: Honestly, if you double down on that stuff and then

661
00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,400
you suddenly act upon it in all these new ways

662
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,360
and it turns out to be like something fake or

663
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,039
something doubtful about it, you're kind of you kind of

664
00:36:55,039 --> 00:36:57,199
put all your eggs into like this, like one little

665
00:36:57,599 --> 00:36:58,119
it shouldn't.

666
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 2: But the blood, like what is going if he's fully human,

667
00:37:03,679 --> 00:37:05,719
testing the blood is not going to show anything anyway.

668
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: It's just dumb, right right. It doesn't tell you much

669
00:37:08,559 --> 00:37:12,519
at all. Bobby C. Five bucks. Can Mormons establish their

670
00:37:12,519 --> 00:37:17,159
own morality quote if they achieve godhood and create morality?

671
00:37:17,679 --> 00:37:21,480
That's another good question about it. I didn't even think about, like, well,

672
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,480
who of the gods? Being that there's endless gods, is

673
00:37:25,519 --> 00:37:27,639
the ultimacy of of.

674
00:37:27,639 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 2: Well, this is the classic critique of polytheism, right, So

675
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,000
if you read Adgentees by Saint Athanasius, one of the

676
00:37:33,039 --> 00:37:36,400
critiques he makes is this point where he says, I mean,

677
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,760
if the gods are all competing and fighting each other,

678
00:37:39,519 --> 00:37:42,440
there is no universal standard of the good, or of

679
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,159
the true or of morals. It's just conflicting power structures

680
00:37:47,199 --> 00:37:49,360
and whatever is in power. So ultimate is kind of

681
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:50,440
chaos is what rules?

682
00:37:50,519 --> 00:37:53,679
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, And it's kind of like that if morality

683
00:37:54,119 --> 00:38:00,000
from a Christian view, morality is is is bound to God.

684
00:38:00,119 --> 00:38:03,159
It's not a set of propositions separate from God like

685
00:38:03,199 --> 00:38:09,639
a list. And if it's the nature of God, that's good.

686
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 2: Somebody is saying Mormons believe in an eternal law that

687
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,360
God is subjected to. Right, then it wouldn't be God, right,

688
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,000
so would be God?

689
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 3: Where does that come from?

690
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 2: Who established that? Exactly? Yeah?

691
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,079
Speaker 1: So that's again the problem of nature. What what does

692
00:38:25,079 --> 00:38:27,920
it mean to be the nature of God? Mormonism? They

693
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,280
couldn't possibly tell you the distinction of the nature of God,

694
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,840
being that everyone can be the nature of God, but

695
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,400
they aren't currently the nature of God?

696
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 6: What's that?

697
00:38:36,079 --> 00:38:41,039
Speaker 1: What's that transition right between? They're basically true, They're like

698
00:38:41,079 --> 00:38:42,079
Truon's They're like I.

699
00:38:42,639 --> 00:38:44,079
Speaker 2: And also where do you get that from?

700
00:38:44,119 --> 00:38:44,599
Speaker 3: How do you know?

701
00:38:44,679 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 2: Because number one, remember the Bible's corrupted, So once again

702
00:38:47,519 --> 00:38:49,519
we have to go to just what Joseph Smith says

703
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,079
is what divine nature is?

704
00:38:51,119 --> 00:38:52,079
Speaker 1: That's it right? Right?

705
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:53,119
Speaker 2: Yeah?

706
00:38:53,159 --> 00:38:55,079
Speaker 1: And do they hold that he became a god? I

707
00:38:55,079 --> 00:38:57,599
mean obviously they would have to say, like he became.

708
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 3: The That's a good question. I mean it seems like

709
00:38:59,000 --> 00:38:59,760
they would have to say that.

710
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:00,280
Speaker 4: Yeah.

711
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, Presidents sundown are five bucks. Have you ever noticed

712
00:39:03,559 --> 00:39:06,440
that much Protestant sounds like protests?

713
00:39:06,519 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 2: Yeah?

714
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, gravy, gravy. Yeah, I bring that up with Protestants

715
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,679
that their identity is against something and is not a

716
00:39:14,679 --> 00:39:17,679
positive claim for It's kind of a it's like an

717
00:39:17,679 --> 00:39:22,639
atheist similar in their position. Enzo nine ninety nine says nothing,

718
00:39:22,639 --> 00:39:24,880
thank you so much, Extangle five bucks. What I mean

719
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,519
is if, oh, yeah, I read that David Murdoch j

720
00:39:29,119 --> 00:39:33,159
the judge b y you alumni just dismissed most of

721
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,320
Hambley's charges with prejudice now ag withholding information.

722
00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 2: Right, So the Hamblin case about the SRA satanic stuff.

723
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 3: Was covered up.

724
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:51,159
Speaker 1: Interesting, ben five bucks. J. Andrew always speaks highly of you.

725
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:53,559
What are your thoughts on his debate style? Is there

726
00:39:53,559 --> 00:39:55,920
anything you disagree with him on that you could that

727
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:56,960
you would debate? I'm on it.

728
00:39:57,079 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 2: I think there are people who do these super chats

729
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,519
and they're constantly try to get me to debate Andrew.

730
00:40:02,119 --> 00:40:04,199
I think they're doing it on purpose, because I got

731
00:40:04,599 --> 00:40:06,639
people saying Andrew wants to debate you, and then I

732
00:40:06,679 --> 00:40:07,920
went and talked to Andrew and He's like, no, I

733
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,039
never said that. So I just think this is like

734
00:40:10,119 --> 00:40:11,079
people trying to start.

735
00:40:11,079 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: They try to Yeah, they try to do that a

736
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,159
lot of people do that with me. President sun Down

737
00:40:16,159 --> 00:40:19,440
A four ninety nine, Tristana says Jay is a slanderer.

738
00:40:19,559 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 3: Tristana, that is true.

739
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:24,599
Speaker 2: And Tristana is also a member of the Haggard family.

740
00:40:24,679 --> 00:40:28,519
And if you remember, the most famous gay meth evangelical

741
00:40:28,559 --> 00:40:29,199
pastor is a.

742
00:40:31,679 --> 00:40:34,119
Speaker 1: Shout out to Tristan Haggard. I hope you're doing well.

743
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,719
H brossy five dollars. Thoughts on this trend of women

744
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,400
across women across social media feeling the need to tell

745
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,800
stories for the sole cause of embarrassing their husband. It's weird.

746
00:40:46,599 --> 00:40:49,159
It might be just like a a.

747
00:40:49,079 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 2: Product of the like a Reddit product, like a Reddit.

748
00:40:51,559 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's like.

749
00:40:53,519 --> 00:40:56,079
Speaker 3: I think Reddit is just total cancer that needs to go.

750
00:40:56,119 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: Oh man, it's really bad. And I tried Jay to

751
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,639
even follow like what orthodox Christian read it is.

752
00:41:02,599 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 3: The word now that's run by like total like.

753
00:41:08,519 --> 00:41:11,679
Speaker 1: Five bucks. Yesterday I confused John Cassal with Jason. I

754
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,920
constantly do it. He corrected me and said, it happens

755
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,119
a few times a week. It's really hard to catch

756
00:41:16,159 --> 00:41:19,440
that for me, dude. Justin Henley gifted one membership and

757
00:41:19,559 --> 00:41:22,679
you guys, uh three more super chats. And I don't

758
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,760
want to take too much of Jay's time just reading chats,

759
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,519
and we'll close it out with some conclusions about Mormonism

760
00:41:29,559 --> 00:41:32,280
and let you all on your way. Being that it's

761
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:37,320
reaching almost three hours. Uh flane ten dollars. Flain Mez

762
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,920
says a lot of quote Cain worshippers here in Texas

763
00:41:41,119 --> 00:41:44,320
Caine worshippers. Is that the same as Bigfoot? Are you

764
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:45,440
referring to Bigfoot?

765
00:41:46,119 --> 00:41:47,079
Speaker 3: Yeah?

766
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 2: I don't know what that means.

767
00:41:48,639 --> 00:41:52,760
Speaker 1: I think I'm a Bigfoot reference bag Milk thirteen ninety nine.

768
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,000
More Jimbob and Jay streams please. Yeah, we we like

769
00:41:56,119 --> 00:41:59,599
to focus on what a good topic once in a while.

770
00:41:59,679 --> 00:42:04,079
Speaker 2: We will know that that one of us on dispensationalism

771
00:42:05,039 --> 00:42:07,679
on Twitter. I've shared that in a lot of big

772
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:14,079
threads and that has like seventy eighty almost eighty thousand.

773
00:42:14,159 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 1: Now, oh that's awesome. Yeah, yeah, that was a good stream.

774
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:21,159
That was thorough. I hope I actually wanted to ask

775
00:42:21,199 --> 00:42:24,599
you about that. Is like being that mainstream media isn't

776
00:42:24,639 --> 00:42:28,440
really designed for long form summaries of things like that,

777
00:42:28,519 --> 00:42:31,079
and you really do need some good chunk of time

778
00:42:31,119 --> 00:42:33,760
to get into that. And I was wondering, like if

779
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,920
you were to get on like with like Tucker or

780
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,280
or anyone bigger and you could actually talk about dispensationalism.

781
00:42:40,519 --> 00:42:43,719
My view is that dispensationalism is the way in which

782
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:47,960
you can talk about Zio issues and without it being

783
00:42:48,079 --> 00:42:52,239
so bagel driven and focused. It's a way around it.

784
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:56,119
If you will, ironically a lay around it, you can

785
00:42:56,159 --> 00:42:58,039
talk about this. My question to you is, Jay, if

786
00:42:58,039 --> 00:43:00,039
you were to be on a massive channel and you

787
00:43:00,119 --> 00:43:04,000
were to cover dispensationalism in like topics, what's the first

788
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,920
section you would cover? If that was your task on

789
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,199
a big on a big channel, I'd probably.

790
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,320
Speaker 2: Just immediately go to the clearest passages like Matthew twenty one,

791
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,360
the Kingdom of God will be taken from you, given

792
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:19,639
to a nation producing the fruits thereof Roman's eleven Jews

793
00:43:19,639 --> 00:43:23,239
grafted out, gentles, grafted in one covenant, one tree, one

794
00:43:23,519 --> 00:43:27,280
one thing to be grafted into or out of not

795
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,599
too dual covenant things. I would talk about the history

796
00:43:30,599 --> 00:43:35,599
of the church, essentially never teaching this until Schofield and Derby,

797
00:43:36,119 --> 00:43:37,880
so I would try to get that like the big

798
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:38,559
points first.

799
00:43:39,519 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's uh, because it seems to be

800
00:43:42,119 --> 00:43:45,159
like it's something that's kind of talked about a little bit,

801
00:43:45,679 --> 00:43:48,360
but I don't think people understand how it like sort

802
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,360
of like, uh, it's just so palpable.

803
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 2: It is, especially in America. I mean all this like

804
00:43:54,480 --> 00:44:00,679
you know the Rapture, you know, what's the Hayes thing

805
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,159
that had the big book series, that had a cage

806
00:44:03,199 --> 00:44:05,719
in the movie Left Behind. You know, all that stuff

807
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,079
is just like propaganda for that stuff.

808
00:44:08,599 --> 00:44:10,679
Speaker 1: And it's so easy. I mean that dummy you debated

809
00:44:10,679 --> 00:44:15,000
who thought the Apostles went to college, he's a perfect

810
00:44:15,119 --> 00:44:20,119
example of like what it produces. Whether he's like, it's

811
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,199
just like at this point, you know, people are like, oh,

812
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,320
that guy has to be a paid plant. And I

813
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:29,400
think we covered this before in a previous stream. Yeah,

814
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,599
you don't need it, Like you can have that. I'm

815
00:44:31,599 --> 00:44:34,159
sure it exists, but do you really need to pay

816
00:44:34,199 --> 00:44:35,840
someone to be a plant? If you could actually just

817
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:36,880
produce people like that?

818
00:44:37,159 --> 00:44:38,760
Speaker 2: There's funny of people that don't know.

819
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,559
Speaker 1: You don't need You don't even need it. As much

820
00:44:41,559 --> 00:44:43,760
as I want the plant theory to be true about

821
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:47,400
a lot of things as a plant, Mormonism to a

822
00:44:47,679 --> 00:44:52,159
cultism to orthodox pipeline is real. What do you think

823
00:44:52,199 --> 00:44:54,480
the most direct pipeline is to Orthodoxy.

824
00:44:54,559 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 2: J Well, you know, it's funny because I would say,

825
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,280
back in twenty eight teen seventeen, it seemed like most

826
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,480
of the converts that we would see and that we

827
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,119
were interacting with on a regular basis in the discord

828
00:45:07,199 --> 00:45:11,199
were Roman Catholics, especially traditional Catholics. Then that kind of

829
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,920
faded out, and then it seemed like it's been more

830
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:20,039
and more people coming from either the hippie DMT psychosphere

831
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:25,039
to Orthodoxy or the Protestant world. It seems like the

832
00:45:25,079 --> 00:45:28,239
last few years it's really been way more Protestants can

833
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,280
bring orthodox than Catholics.

834
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 3: Because I feel like Catholics who were going to.

835
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:37,760
Speaker 2: Convert, who were willing and open kind of already have

836
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:39,719
and you've just got the hangers on who are just

837
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,599
so entrenched and deluded in Papism that they just they're

838
00:45:43,599 --> 00:45:46,760
not going to leave it unless something even crazier happens,

839
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,800
which it will, I'm sure in the near future. But yeah,

840
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,199
it seems like a lot more Protestants and Evangelicals in

841
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,079
the last and hence, you know, you had Redeemed Zoomer

842
00:45:55,159 --> 00:45:59,400
saying my discords are converting. You know, James White's fussing

843
00:45:59,599 --> 00:46:02,000
again yesterday the whole thing yesterday saying that you know

844
00:46:02,599 --> 00:46:04,559
how bad I am. You had Joel Weebun and all

845
00:46:04,559 --> 00:46:07,159
his crew to an entire podcast. Why are people leaving

846
00:46:07,159 --> 00:46:10,559
processes of Orthodoxy? Seems like the you know, hemorrhaging is

847
00:46:10,559 --> 00:46:12,159
happening in the Protestant world now.

848
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's interesting. I would I would assume it's

849
00:46:16,679 --> 00:46:19,480
mostly men leading the charge who are converting, but if

850
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,280
there are women by their side. I always find it

851
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:29,639
interesting how interact and experience Orthodoxy. Like the man, the

852
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:33,599
reason minded, philosophically based is kind of pulled into it.

853
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,880
Even though the philosophical is important, it's not the wholeness

854
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,519
obviously of the faith and the practice. But it definitely

855
00:46:39,519 --> 00:46:41,199
played a huge part for me and a lot of

856
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,119
people know. But it's interesting to see, like the experience

857
00:46:44,199 --> 00:46:49,000
with women where they follow their husbands or fiances into

858
00:46:49,039 --> 00:46:52,760
it and what they gain from it and their reasoning

859
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,920
is a little bit different than than the man. It

860
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,280
would be interesting to see what percent of this new

861
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,400
sort of surge of converts are men and women. Obviously

862
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,480
it's men dominant, but men.

863
00:47:04,559 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 3: But yeah, like at our live events, there's a lot

864
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,719
of guys with their girlfriend's fiance wives, so you know,

865
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:12,960
we can see a section of women. They're there.

866
00:47:13,039 --> 00:47:17,639
Speaker 2: My audience is ninety percent dudes, ten percent women, So

867
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,000
I think that'll happen. It's like in the case with Dasha,

868
00:47:20,079 --> 00:47:22,800
she was like, well, my husband or my fiance is orthodox.

869
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,039
I'm like just for him.

870
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. Yeah, that was actually refreshing to hear.

871
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:30,960
I didn't know what her ultimate position was. Once she

872
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,039
said that, I was like, oh, okay, this is basically

873
00:47:33,159 --> 00:47:36,320
kind of sordid. There's nothing Jay needs to really do

874
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:41,800
much more of tb or tybee ten dollars. I love

875
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,000
this team up. Should happen? Should be a weekly thing?

876
00:47:44,119 --> 00:47:46,480
Well maybe, I mean maybe bi weekly. I mean, we

877
00:47:46,519 --> 00:47:48,119
could definitely do more streams.

878
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:50,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're one of my favorite people to stream with.

879
00:47:51,519 --> 00:47:54,400
You know, Tristana's retired because he can't handle all the

880
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,920
success that I've had with music and rap, and so

881
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,199
there's an intense amount of jealousy that led him to retire.

882
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,320
So you know, I'm always open for more streams.

883
00:48:03,599 --> 00:48:07,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, just uh President sundown or another five bucks?

884
00:48:07,559 --> 00:48:11,360
Why is Mormonism so big? With Polly's all the tongans

885
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,800
and samoans, I played football with were Mormons? Well interesting,

886
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:16,920
I went to Hawaiian and it was it was loaded

887
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:17,800
with Mormons too.

888
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,599
Speaker 2: Really, so I guess they have like a they've set

889
00:48:20,679 --> 00:48:22,760
up a lot of ye stuff down there.

890
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,159
Speaker 1: Yep, they took it. Saw even some in the elevator.

891
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:30,239
I was like, oh, you guys are here doing the thing. Huh.

892
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,719
They're like, let's go for the Well, well, you said

893
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:38,039
it before, not to not to disparage against against Hawaiian

894
00:48:38,039 --> 00:48:40,400
people or Polynesians or whatever it is, like you said,

895
00:48:40,519 --> 00:48:44,599
they Mormonism does rely on sort of maybe the people

896
00:48:44,639 --> 00:48:47,119
who don't who aren't have full who don't have full

897
00:48:47,159 --> 00:48:50,280
access to everything. Let's say, so an island would be

898
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:52,719
historically a perfect example of isla.

899
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:59,079
Speaker 2: Those witnesses and Mormons all can prey upon less educated people's.

900
00:48:59,559 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's a it's key testicular tactics. Two dollars.

901
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,639
I lived in Utah. Their favorite soda is mountain dew,

902
00:49:08,119 --> 00:49:12,760
that caffeine lade. It might not he does that.

903
00:49:13,199 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 3: It's spelling point.

904
00:49:14,639 --> 00:49:17,559
Speaker 1: It doesn't spray or is it sprite that doesn't.

905
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,199
Speaker 2: Spe doesn't I think Jerome.

906
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 1: Six ninety nine. The Mormons have much capital. They might

907
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:30,239
be the one secretly pulling all the strings illuminate confirm. Well,

908
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,519
if there's anyone who's gonna know or expose that, it's

909
00:49:32,559 --> 00:49:36,000
gonna be Jay. So you know, pray for him because

910
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,320
if if they're as powerful as we we kind of

911
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,679
fantasize that they are, you know, Jay's is in danger basically,

912
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:47,039
so Seth Garrett twenty bucks, God bless, I gotta go

913
00:49:47,079 --> 00:49:49,760
see you later. Thank you so much, Marcus Antonio, five

914
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,119
gifted memberships, Ben five bucks. Here was a super chat

915
00:49:53,159 --> 00:49:56,400
from Zimmerman and Jessica. Whoever donate ask to thank you

916
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:01,079
so much for that spirit on fifteen bucks nothing Ben

917
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:05,079
four nine, we won, thank you for that. Anglo Orthodoxy

918
00:50:05,119 --> 00:50:08,360
five bucks. Mormons don't have a deity as such. They

919
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:14,239
have individuals parentheses gods. Yeah, yeah, they just have a

920
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,719
bunch of particular people hanging out of their table and

921
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,800
they're like, well, who's gonna win, let's vote, So voting

922
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,760
voting gods is wild. A bunch of voting gods with

923
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:28,159
their hands raised, so weird. The cold quest That means

924
00:50:28,199 --> 00:50:31,880
that they don't have shared wills, not that that's the

925
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,320
biggest problem, but not that you need even that. But

926
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,639
that's just another thing there, cold quest, five bucks, what's

927
00:50:38,639 --> 00:50:42,360
your opinions on someone like Wes Huff who's smart, still

928
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,079
falling for the dispensationalism hoax? Would love to see him

929
00:50:45,079 --> 00:50:45,599
debate it.

930
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:47,119
Speaker 2: I mean we tried.

931
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:49,599
Speaker 3: I actually reached out to one of his buddies.

932
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,760
Speaker 2: He has a buddy who's becoming Orthodox, and that guy

933
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,920
was trying to get west up to do the tencast

934
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:01,519
debate with me Michael Knowles, Tim Gordon, and west Hoff,

935
00:51:02,519 --> 00:51:05,320
and west Hoff said no, Michael Knowles doesn't want to

936
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:07,880
do it obviously, So man.

937
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 1: That would have been a blast.

938
00:51:09,119 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 3: I know, I would like the best debate if we

939
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:11,960
got those, all three of those.

940
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 1: Maybe that's too high tier. I've I've been suggesting recently

941
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,840
that maybe we should get Nathan Rager up with you.

942
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,480
But it's but you could just as well be Randy

943
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:25,880
Balls and debate Nathan Rager. Have you you've seen Nathan

944
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:30,440
Rager now that one of your characters. No, No, I wish,

945
00:51:30,639 --> 00:51:34,000
I wish. I actually want to quit satire because I

946
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,280
didn't even come up with this here. I'm sure I'm

947
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:39,920
sure you've seen this Jay now that once you see

948
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:44,519
the person's face, where is it? Dude, Nathan Is. That

949
00:51:44,639 --> 00:51:50,519
is Nathan Rager. He actually stands outside of an orthodox.

950
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 2: All that Baptist guy with.

951
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:58,079
Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah and the big like pandle Mar. Yeah,

952
00:51:58,079 --> 00:51:59,920
I knew there's no way you didn't know who that.

953
00:52:00,039 --> 00:52:02,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, we covered him on the Megachurch stream, you know.

954
00:52:03,159 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I figured ten bucks, no doubt. There are some

955
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:08,199
figs trying to stir up drama between you guys. If

956
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:11,400
there's an issue, it goes without saying, you handle it privately. Yeah,

957
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,079
you always go private first. If you ever hear someone's

958
00:52:14,119 --> 00:52:16,199
doing something saying something, you just reach out and go,

959
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,760
hey whatever. Joey Valencia two dollars, Jay thoughts on The

960
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:22,800
Chosen Show. I actually watch that.

961
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,719
Speaker 3: I haven't watched it.

962
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,079
Speaker 1: SoRs five bucks. Jay, you have any musical advice for

963
00:52:28,159 --> 00:52:30,519
Jim Bobby LARPs as a musician, but he could obviously

964
00:52:30,559 --> 00:52:33,920
use the help from a superior artist. Yeah, I mean.

965
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 2: If you want to get zorched and gifted, he can.

966
00:52:36,079 --> 00:52:38,519
You can go watch my Mystery Science Theater rich Tract

967
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:40,800
stream that we just did a couple of nights ago.

968
00:52:41,039 --> 00:52:44,679
Max Night, Ultra Spy. I piggyback to your twenty.

969
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:48,559
Speaker 1: K oh Yeah, yeah, I sent people celebrating.

970
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,079
Speaker 2: My Twitter almost one k so I'm still I'm still

971
00:52:51,079 --> 00:52:55,280
not there, but uh no, I think Jim Bob's gonna

972
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,360
also probably just get jealous like Tristan and he's going

973
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,400
to retire because I'm pretty much the hottest rapper on

974
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:01,719
the scene.

975
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 3: I'm about to open up for rip Rafts.

976
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's awesome. Speaking of events, that looked really good.

977
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,960
You just retweeted Sam Hides doing a boomer thing.

978
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:14,199
Speaker 2: Yeah. Our next episode is a boomers that was fun

979
00:53:14,199 --> 00:53:16,679
to write about. Hopefully he'll use some of my jokes.

980
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:18,079
Speaker 1: That's hilarious.

981
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:22,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think they're filming that in a couple

982
00:53:22,599 --> 00:53:23,199
of days.

983
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,679
Speaker 1: So remember for thirty one months. Well, Emmanuel says, is

984
00:53:27,679 --> 00:53:31,000
this the same short break quote from Superchats after the animation,

985
00:53:31,119 --> 00:53:33,639
not complaining it's great, Well, this was a short break,

986
00:53:33,639 --> 00:53:36,320
But it turns out you guys reached both goals. For

987
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:40,000
the sake of my time in Jay's and the value

988
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:42,639
we we just gave you, thank you so much celebration

989
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:47,360
in order thank you. I really appreciate that, and I

990
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:51,400
just I knew that to honor the Superchats you have

991
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,199
to read them. That's why you guys send them. So

992
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,800
if it takes time, it takes time, and I think

993
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:58,880
this might be the last one abe nine nine nine

994
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,280
and found a Jim Bob video suggested video through JA.

995
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:05,199
Thank you both. Currently EO Catechumen to be received at Pasca.

996
00:54:05,199 --> 00:54:06,280
Thank you so much for that.

997
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:08,639
Speaker 2: More fake converts more fake.

998
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:16,159
Speaker 1: I didn't know, Jay, We're already at three, but it

999
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:17,920
is stream yard, so I don't know. If you want

1000
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,159
to take two calls one, it doesn't matter to me.

1001
00:54:21,199 --> 00:54:24,880
You could sind whatever you're doing, whatever, okay, if there's

1002
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:29,159
anyone to call in again, oppositional first. I don't want

1003
00:54:29,159 --> 00:54:32,199
people just hanging out, you know, and this isn't an

1004
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,480
a bar. I would happily have a beer with you,

1005
00:54:34,559 --> 00:54:37,639
but oppositional first. Please, I'm gonna put it in the chat.

1006
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:39,719
If we can get one or two, great, If not,

1007
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:41,599
we'll close out the show.

1008
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 3: Maybe you can even get a Mormon in here.

1009
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:45,800
Speaker 1: I could get a Mormon, any Mormons, I mean, first

1010
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:47,719
and foremost, get a Mormon in here. I would love it.

1011
00:54:48,079 --> 00:54:51,400
But if there's anything, you know, Jay's a very attackable person.

1012
00:54:51,639 --> 00:54:53,840
He's an open target for everyone, and so he's used

1013
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:58,039
to it anyway, so so you might as well take

1014
00:54:58,079 --> 00:55:00,480
the take him up on it. There's the chat again.

1015
00:55:00,519 --> 00:55:02,920
No agreement. I don't care about your agreement. Love you,

1016
00:55:03,039 --> 00:55:05,400
but I just don't. We don't want to sit around

1017
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:12,199
and agree with you. Anybody. There's it's it's in the chat. Okay,

1018
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:17,280
there there's the stream yard link. Do it if you dare.

1019
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:25,480
I'll just be here watching, just be here watching nothing anybody.

1020
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:28,480
And we got to turn on the background music.

1021
00:55:28,639 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 2: You had a Mormon dude in your show yesterday when

1022
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,119
he in the chat, somebody Mormon yapping it up.

1023
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a couple. I just can't tell if their

1024
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,760
trolls or not because these wild names, you know, like

1025
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:46,320
full bring them young, full sentences. I don't. I'm so

1026
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:49,639
naive to I believe everyone. It's just the worst thing.

1027
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,400
I'm just like, oh, do you want to talk about it? There?

1028
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:54,920
And my own chat's like, dude, that's a troll.

1029
00:55:55,039 --> 00:55:55,199
Speaker 7: Do you.

1030
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:07,039
Speaker 1: Anybody nothing? I know, he's scary, he's scary. Face your fears.

1031
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:12,159
Look he's Look, he's at the tail end of a stream.

1032
00:56:12,159 --> 00:56:14,960
He's tired. This is where you go for it. Look

1033
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:15,280
at him.

1034
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 2: I'm wilted. Attacked me while I'm wilted.

1035
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:24,679
Speaker 1: He's only had three double double espressos. How's your espresso machine?

1036
00:56:24,679 --> 00:56:26,440
By the by the way, Jay, do you have a

1037
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:28,159
good one that makes some real good grema?

1038
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 2: Or I don't do dairy too well, so I don't

1039
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,119
you usually do the cream even though I really like it?

1040
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:37,199
And uh yeah, I actually had to get a nice

1041
00:56:37,199 --> 00:56:39,440
one because I kept buying kind of like mid tier

1042
00:56:39,519 --> 00:56:42,039
ones that kept breaking after like a year, so we

1043
00:56:42,559 --> 00:56:43,480
only got a nice one.

1044
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:45,199
Speaker 1: Did you get a Rebel?

1045
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 2: I don't remember what brand it is, but it was

1046
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,039
about four hundred dollars. Five hundred dollars.

1047
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 1: Well that's good. Yeah, you basically that's your low. Five

1048
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:57,440
hundred or more is where you have to go with

1049
00:56:57,519 --> 00:57:02,519
the espresso machines. Am low looks up. You keep coming

1050
00:57:02,519 --> 00:57:05,880
on and breaking off. Get into a good place if

1051
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:06,519
you're gonna call in.

1052
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:07,159
Speaker 4: Please?

1053
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,800
Speaker 1: Who's meaner? Jay, Jim, Bob or Andrew? I mean, I

1054
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:15,400
think Jay, you can't like steal the meanness meme from Jay.

1055
00:57:17,639 --> 00:57:20,239
I think Andrew's more maniacal than either of us.

1056
00:57:21,639 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 2: But you and I are similar in that we will

1057
00:57:26,039 --> 00:57:31,960
impersonate and you know, kind of make into cartoon characters

1058
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,199
people that are big, you know, disagree or.

1059
00:57:35,239 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like more of a I'm kind of a bully.

1060
00:57:38,079 --> 00:57:40,920
I like mock. I'm trying to I'm trying to figure

1061
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:45,280
out how much mockery is justified in an exchange and

1062
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:49,159
how much is just going over the line and just

1063
00:57:49,159 --> 00:57:52,000
just you know, humiliating for the sake of humiliation. I'm

1064
00:57:52,039 --> 00:57:59,239
dealing with that internally. I think Jay and Andrew mock

1065
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,000
less than me. I'm more of a direct mocker. And

1066
00:58:03,199 --> 00:58:09,280
uh so a pair of Sith lords. Yeah, they're saying

1067
00:58:09,639 --> 00:58:11,920
Jay and Andrew are currently a pair of Sith lords

1068
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:17,239
and they're training Jimbob just to succeed them. That's funny. Yeah,

1069
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:19,280
I'll fight yeah, yeah, none of them all. I will

1070
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:23,159
say that Jay Nor j Or Andrew actually ask people

1071
00:58:23,239 --> 00:58:26,480
to fight them directly, like I do. Not that that's

1072
00:58:26,519 --> 00:58:28,760
an advantage that might be as I've.

1073
00:58:28,599 --> 00:58:32,079
Speaker 2: Tried to set up two or three fights boxing matches.

1074
00:58:33,119 --> 00:58:37,480
Speaker 1: Have you boxed before? I mean not professionally, white shoulders,

1075
00:58:37,519 --> 00:58:38,639
I mean you could, you could.

1076
00:58:38,679 --> 00:58:41,119
Speaker 2: Not trained, but I've like messed around.

1077
00:58:42,119 --> 00:58:47,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, Hey rock E, Hey, what's that? How you doing

1078
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:51,880
your oppositional Hm? No, are you well?

1079
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:53,039
Speaker 4: I'm oppositional on.

1080
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:58,719
Speaker 1: I'm not orthodox, Okay, do you wanna do you wanna?

1081
00:58:59,360 --> 00:58:59,920
You got something?

1082
00:59:00,159 --> 00:59:00,599
Speaker 8: J or.

1083
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 4: Well, I made the comment that I think we're in

1084
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:11,840
Satan's Little season, and I I got like twenty scriptures

1085
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:15,920
that you know. Look at Matthew's twenty four thirty four,

1086
00:59:16,039 --> 00:59:19,840
Jesus says this generation shall not pass till all these

1087
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:20,440
things happen.

1088
00:59:22,199 --> 00:59:24,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that generation is the people standing in front

1089
00:59:24,719 --> 00:59:28,199
of him. And so what he's talking about happens in

1090
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,119
seventy eighty when the temple's destroyed.

1091
00:59:30,119 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 3: That's why if you read Luke twenty one.

1092
00:59:32,519 --> 00:59:36,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So do you believe that

1093
00:59:36,519 --> 00:59:39,119
there should be a third temple that needs to be destroyed?

1094
00:59:42,119 --> 00:59:45,880
What I'm asking, are you a Zionist? No?

1095
00:59:46,079 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 3: First relate to this.

1096
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:52,599
Speaker 4: No, I'm talking about the Satan's Little season.

1097
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:54,559
Speaker 2: Where I don't know what you think.

1098
00:59:54,599 --> 00:59:58,519
Speaker 4: That is what I think. What is Satan's little season?

1099
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what you think that means.

1100
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:07,280
Speaker 4: Revelations twenty seven through eight talks about Satan's Little season

1101
01:00:08,079 --> 01:00:15,159
being after the Millennial reign. And so if do you

1102
01:00:15,159 --> 01:00:17,079
you believe the millennial reign is future?

1103
01:00:17,719 --> 01:00:19,199
Speaker 3: No, it's now. It's the church.

1104
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:22,800
Speaker 2: The Church reigns with Christ because when he ascended, it's

1105
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:25,119
fulfilled that he sat at the right hand of the

1106
01:00:25,119 --> 01:00:27,800
Father and began his reign. So every New Testament reference

1107
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,920
to Psalm one ten is a reference to the ascension,

1108
01:00:31,039 --> 01:00:33,760
which is a past reality.

1109
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:36,519
Speaker 4: So you're millennialist.

1110
01:00:38,039 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 2: Ten towards post millennism. But I'm speaking of partial preterism.

1111
01:00:42,519 --> 01:00:46,519
Speaker 4: Partial Okay, that's good. Well, I kind of believe that

1112
01:00:46,559 --> 01:00:50,920
he came physically reigned for a thousand years and history

1113
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:57,880
has been we've been lied to in their hiding Christ. Yeah,

1114
01:00:57,960 --> 01:00:59,800
physically on earth, he was here.

1115
01:01:00,039 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 3: It's crazy, dude.

1116
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:02,880
Speaker 1: Sorry, Wait, what are they hiding though?

1117
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:07,519
Speaker 4: Did he did? He came? And that the tribulation happened,

1118
01:01:07,559 --> 01:01:11,000
and that the Millennial reign is over. There's there's evidence

1119
01:01:11,039 --> 01:01:14,360
that they added seven hundred years to history. Who's they,

1120
01:01:18,079 --> 01:01:21,280
I don't know who you would call him? The Satanists

1121
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:23,559
that you know, the people that rule the world. Now

1122
01:01:23,679 --> 01:01:28,639
you know, you know seventeen seven Okay, if you if

1123
01:01:28,679 --> 01:01:31,599
the millennial reign, if the tribulation was over in seventy

1124
01:01:31,639 --> 01:01:34,440
six a d. And then you add one thousand years

1125
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:38,320
at the one thousand and seventy six AD, and there's

1126
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:41,679
evidence that they added seven hundred years to history, so

1127
01:01:41,719 --> 01:01:48,320
that would be seventies seventeen seventy six AD, you know,

1128
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:51,519
and then you have the they re established Rome, the

1129
01:01:51,639 --> 01:01:55,440
Roman you know they went against you know, the French Revolution,

1130
01:01:55,519 --> 01:01:56,480
the French Revolution.

1131
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 1: Can you hear that?

1132
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:05,159
Speaker 7: Check?

1133
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:09,119
Speaker 9: Check?

1134
01:02:11,119 --> 01:02:11,280
Speaker 4: Is that?

1135
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 2: Don't hunt me?

1136
01:02:13,119 --> 01:02:14,559
Speaker 6: Yeah? I like it.

1137
01:02:21,159 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 1: Anyone else. I saw someone else keep dropping off in

1138
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:27,719
there that was gonna loop, so you gotta get him out.

1139
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:30,519
I'm learning. I'm learning. I learned from Jay, I learned

1140
01:02:30,559 --> 01:02:33,280
from some other people. Once there's a once you can

1141
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:36,199
sense the loop, you gotta just you gotta get out

1142
01:02:36,199 --> 01:02:40,639
of there. Thanks for jumping on, Rocky though, but that's

1143
01:02:40,679 --> 01:02:47,719
gonna go nowhere. Seventeen seventy six. Can you imagine Ben

1144
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:50,119
Shapiro became one of those guys. He was just like

1145
01:02:50,239 --> 01:02:56,840
I changed my health. Yeah, seventeen king now excellent.

1146
01:02:58,639 --> 01:03:03,599
Speaker 9: Thanks trained for a thousand years and hiding it from us.

1147
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:08,119
You're hiding it from us. How do you know they

1148
01:03:08,119 --> 01:03:11,320
added years to history? Well, because they're there, Hell, wiki

1149
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:12,079
ten dollars.

1150
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,320
Speaker 2: I like that. That's that Mormon level of argumentation, right like,

1151
01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:16,280
because it's not there.

1152
01:03:16,719 --> 01:03:22,239
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, uh, Rocky Shepherd, every one I've seen

1153
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:24,320
him on a couple of things. You know, it seems

1154
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:27,519
like a he's he's a nice guy, he's well behaved.

1155
01:03:27,559 --> 01:03:30,800
But I mean it's like the priest of LDS. This

1156
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:40,719
has to be a troll. Troll, yes, welcome to okay,

1157
01:03:41,159 --> 01:03:42,679
anyone we got one that.

1158
01:03:45,039 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 6: Was it?

1159
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:51,559
Speaker 1: That was very or camel Yeah, nothing.

1160
01:03:55,639 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 2: Mormons like Mormons. I thought Mormons love to come and debate.

1161
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 1: Now they don't. They never click the link. That's the thing.

1162
01:04:01,639 --> 01:04:04,159
The ones I got when I post the link, they

1163
01:04:04,239 --> 01:04:06,760
never click it. And they say, you're afraid of Mormon,

1164
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:09,000
You're afraid of the LDS church, which I think they're

1165
01:04:09,039 --> 01:04:15,679
just it's probably like my trolls, right fortunately, so well,

1166
01:04:15,719 --> 01:04:17,840
I mean, look, he's got a.

1167
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:22,679
Speaker 4: Book here, it's only five dollars.

1168
01:04:22,920 --> 01:04:25,719
Speaker 1: Who wrote that?

1169
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:29,199
Speaker 4: It's written by Jesus kept his word, it's anonymous.

1170
01:04:30,039 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 1: Oh nobody knows who wrote it.

1171
01:04:31,559 --> 01:04:34,079
Speaker 4: I know, I know Jay likes to read books. Maybe

1172
01:04:34,079 --> 01:04:36,920
he should, I don't know.

1173
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 1: I've already questioning the typeface that they chosen, the placement

1174
01:04:40,039 --> 01:04:44,239
of everything. I'm an aesthetic aesthetic snob, so I'm really

1175
01:04:44,599 --> 01:04:46,760
I'm already out with that book. I mean, not as

1176
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:51,519
rough one sideways sideways.

1177
01:04:50,679 --> 01:04:52,639
Speaker 4: It's only five bucks. It's a short read.

1178
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:54,679
Speaker 1: Look at that book? Is that a coloring book?

1179
01:04:55,639 --> 01:04:59,719
Speaker 4: Look at it's got.

1180
01:04:59,519 --> 01:05:02,519
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right, if there's no one else serious

1181
01:05:02,719 --> 01:05:06,480
want to call in and and go after Jay and

1182
01:05:06,519 --> 01:05:10,880
his meanness, We'll give you like one more minute or so.

1183
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:12,800
It's a huge opportunity. I mean, you're getting him when

1184
01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:15,039
he's tired. He doesn't have coffee.

1185
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 3: I need to I need to be put in my place.

1186
01:05:19,639 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, come on, what other? Come on? This is insane.

1187
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:26,440
I thought they'd be all over you, dude.

1188
01:05:27,599 --> 01:05:30,000
Speaker 2: I thought you would legit get like Mormons in the chat,

1189
01:05:30,039 --> 01:05:31,400
spamming and yapping and.

1190
01:05:31,559 --> 01:05:35,719
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, the small portion of my chat, you know,

1191
01:05:36,199 --> 01:05:40,599
make some quick remarks about you during any stream, just

1192
01:05:40,679 --> 01:05:42,920
like totally random. And I'm like, well, if he ever

1193
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:45,400
jumps on, you can just call in. It's fine, don't

1194
01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:45,920
worry about it.

1195
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:46,639
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah right.

1196
01:05:46,679 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 2: And then now that I'm here, none of them want

1197
01:05:48,519 --> 01:05:48,880
to hop on.

1198
01:05:50,679 --> 01:05:53,280
Speaker 1: I mean he lives for Robert. Okay, cool, here we go,

1199
01:05:53,639 --> 01:06:01,920
Hello Robert, justin water, justin water. See that's it. That's

1200
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:04,199
all we get. You get way better people.

1201
01:06:04,199 --> 01:06:05,199
Speaker 3: And you know who that is?

1202
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 1: No, I don't know who that is. I don't know

1203
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:10,480
who that is. I gotta watch it too because some

1204
01:06:10,519 --> 01:06:16,480
people troll me and they try to try c s. Yeah,

1205
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:19,599
JB and J unstoppable force over here all crickets from

1206
01:06:19,599 --> 01:06:22,760
the Mormons. Where did they all go? I have to

1207
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:25,840
rely on fake calls from my own creative audience. This

1208
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:30,119
is just sad. This is sad.

1209
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 2: Well, I think I'm probably gonna have to head out

1210
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:38,480
because Jamie, are about to go do something. But really

1211
01:06:38,519 --> 01:06:44,119
appreciate the Mormon stream if you want to summarize, or

1212
01:06:44,119 --> 01:06:45,199
maybe I'm not trying.

1213
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 4: To be right.

1214
01:06:46,199 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think we got to go to pretty soon. Yeah,

1215
01:06:49,079 --> 01:06:49,639
no problem.

1216
01:06:49,679 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 2: Well.

1217
01:06:50,039 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 1: In summary, thanks for coming on expanding on the knowledge

1218
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:56,199
you have of Mormonism. Glad we covered some of the

1219
01:06:56,239 --> 01:06:59,880
funny stuff. I'm in the process of making a an animation.

1220
01:07:00,159 --> 01:07:01,599
I made all the art for it, so I just

1221
01:07:01,639 --> 01:07:05,519
have to voice it. And uh, when I post that,

1222
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:08,599
maybe you can help share it share it around. Jay

1223
01:07:09,719 --> 01:07:15,719
with that said, Mormonism is in fact, uh whackier surprisingly

1224
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:20,960
then I think than Islam is an Islam. Posh was saying, no, no, no,

1225
01:07:21,719 --> 01:07:24,280
look further into it. He said, it gets more ridiculous

1226
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:25,599
than there's someths.

1227
01:07:25,639 --> 01:07:28,599
Speaker 2: But I just think that this whole space story with

1228
01:07:28,719 --> 01:07:33,519
Collob and with Jesus and Lucifer being brothers and you

1229
01:07:33,559 --> 01:07:35,360
know what I mean, even that's I think that's stuff

1230
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:37,800
just Trump's you know, the god the Father was a

1231
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:40,480
man who became a god who impregnates Mary. I mean

1232
01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:44,079
that stuff just prompts the even the Mormon, I mean

1233
01:07:44,079 --> 01:07:45,280
the Muslim Hadith stuff.

1234
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's just wild. So any who with that said, uh,

1235
01:07:52,679 --> 01:07:55,400
go follow Jay at Jay Dyer. Is there anything else

1236
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:58,599
you got coming up? That's that's like a big any news,

1237
01:07:58,639 --> 01:07:59,639
like big news for you.

1238
01:07:59,679 --> 01:08:02,679
Speaker 2: Or wells they're callably with three is complete, and I've

1239
01:08:02,679 --> 01:08:05,719
got back a couple of the edits on the second

1240
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,159
edited version from the publisher. It's looking good. I think

1241
01:08:08,159 --> 01:08:10,079
it's gonna be a lot of fun, a lot of movies,

1242
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:13,239
right under one hundred movies, almost one hundred in this

1243
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:17,880
one versus the previous ones covering less movies and more writing.

1244
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:21,359
This one is more movies, so look for that in

1245
01:08:21,399 --> 01:08:24,399
the near future. The mega church streams that we did

1246
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:26,600
were a lot of fun this week, so people can

1247
01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:30,479
go check those out on my channel and uh, just yeah,

1248
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:32,800
turning out stupid little tiktoks and.

1249
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:38,359
Speaker 1: Having fun and then maybe a debate on on whatever.

1250
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:39,079
It would be fun.

1251
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:41,239
Speaker 2: Oh I don't yeah, if we can get her to

1252
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:45,840
do it. I don't know. Originally she was gonna come

1253
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:49,359
on the channel originally, and then it was like, oh, no,

1254
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,840
I can't, but maybe on whatever.

1255
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you would debate feminism against her because she.

1256
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:00,439
Speaker 3: Made something different.

1257
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 2: I told her I would debate her all because she

1258
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:04,000
claims to be quote a radical Protestant whatever.

1259
01:09:04,159 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing.

1260
01:09:05,079 --> 01:09:06,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was like, we can debate that too, and

1261
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,640
she's like I wanted to so well.

1262
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:11,239
Speaker 1: That you could tie kind of tie them in because

1263
01:09:11,279 --> 01:09:14,880
she tries to appeal to the to her weird Christian view.

1264
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:19,159
But then I asked her flat out as Christianity patriarchy.

1265
01:09:19,319 --> 01:09:21,000
She said yes. So it's like, do you want a

1266
01:09:21,039 --> 01:09:23,680
Christian nation that like, I mean in a sense that like,

1267
01:09:24,039 --> 01:09:26,800
do you want the structure of society to reflect the

1268
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:31,279
church in this case if it's a patriarchy? And no, no,

1269
01:09:31,399 --> 01:09:35,520
I mean just like, okay, so what do you want?

1270
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:39,600
I want liberty, liberty above all. What about you and

1271
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:43,760
Michael Malice? I wonder if you guys would hit it

1272
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:44,640
off with a debate.

1273
01:09:45,199 --> 01:09:50,119
Speaker 3: Oh, I know, yet he had hide on so maybe yeah.

1274
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:52,479
Speaker 1: He said maybe to uh he, I've been engaged with

1275
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:55,520
him a couple of times. I put him in a

1276
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:59,159
meme that got his attention where he's like dies. In

1277
01:09:59,199 --> 01:10:01,960
the meme, he goes that, yeah.

1278
01:10:02,119 --> 01:10:04,079
Speaker 2: I reached out to Tripoli and I couldn't get Tripley

1279
01:10:04,159 --> 01:10:05,279
to do anything, So I don't know.

1280
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:07,880
Speaker 1: Well, they're there. You know, the whole comedy scene is

1281
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:10,560
like is a it's kind of on fire as far

1282
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:13,439
as like energy and movement right now, so I'm sure

1283
01:10:13,479 --> 01:10:15,880
they're just like riding that wave. It's hard to get

1284
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:19,920
these people. Even I asked Ben Benkis, he was interested,

1285
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:22,399
but it's it's really hard to get these people to commit,

1286
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:28,079
and probably rightfully so, being that they're super busy. Anyway, Well,

1287
01:10:28,279 --> 01:10:31,560
thanks so much, Jay, God bless you and yours and

1288
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:34,720
have fun on your uh your event or your date

1289
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:36,880
or whatever. And uh, I'll talk to you soon on

1290
01:10:36,960 --> 01:10:39,880
any future topics you guys want me and Jay to

1291
01:10:40,079 --> 01:10:43,039
collaborate on. Throw them our way. They could be really ridiculous.

1292
01:10:43,079 --> 01:10:46,479
By the way, we we have no concern of what

1293
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:49,079
the topic is. We'll we'll cover it. Together and have

1294
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:51,840
a have a blast. Okay. With that said, thanks Jay

1295
01:10:52,159 --> 01:10:52,800
head Off and.

1296
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 2: Uh absolutely man, thanks for having me is a great

1297
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:57,119
chat and always fun covering colts A love that.

1298
01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:01,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, no problem, dude, thanks a lot. There you go.

1299
01:11:02,279 --> 01:11:06,159
I'll give Rocky. I'll give him the floor to to

1300
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:12,560
uh educate us. Rocky, go ahead, Well what do.

1301
01:11:12,520 --> 01:11:14,199
Speaker 4: You think of the statue of Liberty? What do you

1302
01:11:14,199 --> 01:11:15,640
think that represents?

1303
01:11:16,079 --> 01:11:16,560
Speaker 1: A troon?

1304
01:11:18,399 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 4: M that's the light bearer? The light bearer, I.

1305
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:25,680
Speaker 1: Don't know, is this skim. I don't put too much to.

1306
01:11:26,079 --> 01:11:28,560
Speaker 4: The Statue of liberty or the light bearer.

1307
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:33,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean maybe it's.

1308
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,359
Speaker 4: Got a chain that's broken around its ankle.

1309
01:11:36,199 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 1: Uh huh wait a seconder.

1310
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:41,680
Speaker 4: Okay, the liberty to sin against God, that's what it's

1311
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:42,159
all about.

1312
01:11:43,039 --> 01:11:46,159
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean liberty, liberty itself. I don't need

1313
01:11:46,199 --> 01:11:51,399
a symbol, uh to know that. Uh. Worshiping liberty and

1314
01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:56,520
freedom above all is uh a nefarious plan. I figured

1315
01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:59,399
that out pretty early without the Statue of Liberty. So

1316
01:12:00,199 --> 01:12:03,199
you know, if that's the case, Rocky, we both agree

1317
01:12:03,199 --> 01:12:08,319
that selling liberty above all is a sort of satanic trick.

1318
01:12:09,039 --> 01:12:10,159
What's the narrow.

1319
01:12:10,039 --> 01:12:17,399
Speaker 4: Path Jesus is the narrow path Jesus.

1320
01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:20,520
Speaker 1: But Jesus is a being. So is there a way

1321
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:25,640
in which to properly way the way the truth? I

1322
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:29,000
know the platitudes and the words, But is there a

1323
01:12:29,079 --> 01:12:32,800
proper way to follow and live a christ Like life?

1324
01:12:34,039 --> 01:12:40,000
Speaker 4: Well, I don't believe it's relying on people you call fathers.

1325
01:12:40,359 --> 01:12:42,720
Speaker 1: Well I didn't ask that. I asked is there a

1326
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:44,319
proper way to follow Christ?

1327
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:48,319
Speaker 4: Well? I guess there is.

1328
01:12:49,199 --> 01:12:52,960
Speaker 1: And would the proper way of following Christ be preserved

1329
01:12:53,079 --> 01:12:59,800
by men and taught? Or is it figured out? Every

1330
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:02,840
individual is born and they figured out themselves the proper

1331
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:04,319
way to follow Christ.

1332
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:08,520
Speaker 4: Well, we have pastors, but we don't call them fathers.

1333
01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:13,239
Well I don't, I don't. Well, that wasn't. My definition

1334
01:13:13,359 --> 01:13:15,399
of a father in the church is an elderly.

1335
01:13:16,119 --> 01:13:20,239
Speaker 1: So wait, you don't follow fathers, but you follow pastors.

1336
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:25,279
Speaker 4: I study under pastors. You have the gift of pastor teacher.

1337
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:27,520
Speaker 1: They have the gift pastoring.

1338
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:31,720
Speaker 4: Some people have gifts. Some people there's gifts themselves.

1339
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:32,800
Speaker 1: Fathers don't have that.

1340
01:13:35,159 --> 01:13:38,560
Speaker 4: Well, it says not to give anyone the title of father.

1341
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:41,600
Speaker 1: Well, that's heavenly father. That is to say that you

1342
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:45,279
don't call any man the status of heavenly father. The

1343
01:13:45,399 --> 01:13:49,520
term father replaced synonymous with a dad, is not what

1344
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:52,960
they're referring to. Neither are they referring to a father

1345
01:13:53,159 --> 01:13:57,000
in the church, who's essentially a position of an office,

1346
01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:01,560
position of a priest position. So if you're the father,

1347
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:03,239
well I don't.

1348
01:14:03,279 --> 01:14:07,920
Speaker 4: I'm not his father. Pope means father.

1349
01:14:08,359 --> 01:14:11,439
Speaker 1: It's a word concept fallacy, dude. So the question is

1350
01:14:13,039 --> 01:14:16,680
are you look are you the priest of your your household?

1351
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:19,520
Speaker 4: I'm the head of my house.

1352
01:14:20,279 --> 01:14:22,199
Speaker 1: Are you a priest of your house? If you call

1353
01:14:22,239 --> 01:14:24,920
yourself a follower, I.

1354
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:28,560
Speaker 4: Am a priest, or a saint or whatever.

1355
01:14:29,319 --> 01:14:32,399
Speaker 1: You're a saint, Yeah, we're all saints.

1356
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 4: Anyone who believes in christis okay.

1357
01:14:35,279 --> 01:14:41,640
Speaker 1: So if you're the father of your house, isn't your own?

1358
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:44,279
Aren't your own children following another man?

1359
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:49,159
Speaker 4: I don't have the title i'm I'm I'm their dad,

1360
01:14:49,199 --> 01:14:51,319
I'm their father. Yeah, but I don't do you teach

1361
01:14:51,319 --> 01:14:53,560
them in the church. I don't have a title in

1362
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:54,760
the church called father?

1363
01:14:55,239 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 1: Do they do you teach them theology?

1364
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:01,439
Speaker 4: My kids are grown up? Yeah, I did do that.

1365
01:15:02,359 --> 01:15:04,159
Speaker 1: Should they have listened to you being that you're just

1366
01:15:04,199 --> 01:15:04,840
another man.

1367
01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:10,720
Speaker 4: Well, they they listen to the Holy Spirit, Oh so

1368
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:14,720
not you. Yeah, they listen to my words, and they

1369
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:18,079
discern whether the Holy Spirit makes things real.

1370
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 1: Oh so if they disagreed with you, and you said no,

1371
01:15:22,159 --> 01:15:24,279
the Holy Spirit told me x y is true, and

1372
01:15:24,399 --> 01:15:26,600
your son said no, the Holy Spirit told me x

1373
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:38,600
y isn't true. Rocky, you're getting spurgey right now? How

1374
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:41,479
do you discern between the two if you say what

1375
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:44,359
you're saying. Let's say you make a theological statement to

1376
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:47,600
your son and you say, the Holy Spirit is guiding

1377
01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:50,279
me to teach you right now, and he says, that's interesting.

1378
01:15:50,319 --> 01:15:52,399
The Holy Spirit is guiding me, and I don't agree

1379
01:15:52,399 --> 01:15:54,920
with you. What how do you, guys, determine the truth

1380
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:58,760
of the theological interpretation you're teaching your kid?

1381
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:06,039
Speaker 4: He my children would have the Holy Spirit also, And

1382
01:16:09,840 --> 01:16:14,680
sometimes if you learn something that's false, then the.

1383
01:16:17,119 --> 01:16:23,880
Speaker 1: Stops stop it. If you claim that the Holy Spirit

1384
01:16:24,039 --> 01:16:27,079
is guiding your interpretation of the thing you're teaching your child,

1385
01:16:27,359 --> 01:16:30,359
and your child, being grown up says, well, that's interesting,

1386
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:33,760
I'm also being guided in the interpretation. I don't agree

1387
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:37,199
with you. I asked you, what's the methodology to determine

1388
01:16:37,199 --> 01:16:39,960
who is correct. If you both are claiming to have

1389
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:46,920
the Holy Spirit guiding you the scriptures, that's the thing

1390
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:50,000
in question, Rocky. If I interpret the scriptures, and I'm

1391
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:53,479
guided to interpret the Holy Scriptures right by the Holy Spirit,

1392
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:56,399
and you both look at the scriptures, the same scripture,

1393
01:16:56,840 --> 01:17:00,000
and you come to a different a disagreement, a contradict

1394
01:17:00,119 --> 01:17:03,479
read disagreement between your interpretations, and you both claim to

1395
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:06,319
be guided by the Holy Spirit in your interpretation of

1396
01:17:06,359 --> 01:17:08,319
the scriptures. I ask you, how do you discern who's right?

1397
01:17:08,359 --> 01:17:09,319
And you say, the scriptures.

1398
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:40,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, see, I'm learning, all right, this is domb waste

1399
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:41,159
my time.

1400
01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:47,439
Speaker 1: I just can't. You can't if you don't understand, Rocky,

1401
01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:52,239
God bless your soul. If you don't understand the problem here.

1402
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:56,920
If two people claim to have the power and the

1403
01:17:56,920 --> 01:18:00,279
guidance of the Holy Spirit to interpret scripture by the way,

1404
01:18:00,279 --> 01:18:03,159
you didn't get the scripture yourself. That required a whole

1405
01:18:03,239 --> 01:18:08,039
slew of history such that you can hold a binding

1406
01:18:08,159 --> 01:18:13,399
called the books. You're already appealing to men before you

1407
01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:16,039
who are guided by the same thing you say you're

1408
01:18:16,039 --> 01:18:18,600
guided by. The problem is the people who were guided

1409
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:23,960
into forming and getting the books of the Cannon and

1410
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:30,720
putting them into a binded, organized compilation for you to read.

1411
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:36,720
They also have preserved interpretation of that. They didn't just

1412
01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:41,359
like put pages and not practice it right Rocky, By

1413
01:18:41,359 --> 01:18:47,159
the way, the scripture itself was used for liturgical practices,

1414
01:18:47,279 --> 01:18:50,520
not for your son and you to read and to

1415
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:53,840
come up with interpretations that you think. It means. It's

1416
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:58,960
not for you to decode. So the problem you have

1417
01:18:59,319 --> 01:19:02,319
is an epistel problem, because how do you know you're

1418
01:19:02,359 --> 01:19:03,960
interpreting the scripture correctly?

1419
01:19:04,199 --> 01:19:04,399
Speaker 4: Right?

1420
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:06,880
Speaker 1: Is the question? And you said, I'm guided by the

1421
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:09,359
Holy Spirit. I said, that's interesting. If your son is

1422
01:19:09,399 --> 01:19:11,439
guided by the Holy Spirit and he disagrees with the

1423
01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:16,640
same scripture interpretation, how do you figure out who's right?

1424
01:19:16,680 --> 01:19:21,239
And you said, the scriptures okay, you can't do that

1425
01:19:24,079 --> 01:19:27,760
is god logical? Would God lead you to an illogical

1426
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:34,800
path of understanding? No, you have an illogical path of understanding. Therefore,

1427
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:39,520
it's not from God, it's from something else. It's from you.

1428
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:42,279
I wouldn't even say it's demonic. I'm not even saying that.

1429
01:19:42,319 --> 01:19:44,640
I'm saying you're the authority. You're just like, oh, well,

1430
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:50,119
I know and then you're like, well, the fathers, you

1431
01:19:50,119 --> 01:19:53,119
guys appeal to church fathers, so do you hold You

1432
01:19:53,159 --> 01:19:55,880
hold a Bible in your hand. You appeal to church fathers.

1433
01:19:55,920 --> 01:20:02,039
You appeal to a normative authority to protect you, appeal

1434
01:20:02,119 --> 01:20:06,520
to counsels to protect the faith and its interpretation in

1435
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:11,399
practice from heresy, from gnarcissism, from all of these things.

1436
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:15,560
And yet you have this privileged position in modernity to

1437
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:17,760
go down the street, get a free Bible or a

1438
01:20:17,800 --> 01:20:19,479
dollar bible, hold it in your hand and be like,

1439
01:20:19,640 --> 01:20:24,159
I don't need anything. I don't need a damn thing.

1440
01:20:24,199 --> 01:20:27,039
I just guess me and my son and the Holy

1441
01:20:27,119 --> 01:20:31,359
Spirit in nineteen seventeen seventy six and adding numbers together.

1442
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:41,279
Come on, dude, come on, don't do this. Wilson nineteen

1443
01:20:41,319 --> 01:20:43,640
dollars twenty bucks. Thank you so much, Rachel, hope you're

1444
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:47,000
doing well. I learned that this type of rebellious Protestant

1445
01:20:47,079 --> 01:20:50,000
loves making up their own system to follow, which reduces

1446
01:20:50,039 --> 01:20:53,399
to you're not my dad. You can't every time, Rachel,

1447
01:20:54,239 --> 01:20:59,199
every time it's you're not my dad. And yet I

1448
01:20:59,239 --> 01:21:03,479
ask them, do you teach your son? Do you teach

1449
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:05,439
your son?

1450
01:21:06,840 --> 01:21:07,239
Speaker 8: Yeah?

1451
01:21:07,279 --> 01:21:10,119
Speaker 1: But I don't call myself a father, I say Deaddy.

1452
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:18,079
I don't say father, I say deaddy Diddy. Well, Emmanuel

1453
01:21:18,119 --> 01:21:21,359
two hundred pesos endless celestial l's in the chat. Yeah,

1454
01:21:21,359 --> 01:21:23,359
I'm gonna have to change my own whole song, dude,

1455
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:31,199
change my whole damn song, Diddy. Sincere hypocrite member for

1456
01:21:31,239 --> 01:21:33,640
one month, don't follow any man proceeds to create his

1457
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:36,479
own man made understanding against the Bible. Well, that's it's

1458
01:21:36,479 --> 01:21:39,800
a huge thing, sincere hypocrite. If I granted someone like

1459
01:21:40,520 --> 01:21:43,880
Rocky his interpretation and he thought it was authoritative because

1460
01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:45,680
he was guided by the Holy Spirit, yet he has

1461
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:48,479
no methodology for discerning whether or not he's wrong or not.

1462
01:21:49,279 --> 01:21:52,640
And I said, are you comfortable enough, being that you've

1463
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:54,960
been guided by the Holy Spirit to interpret this already

1464
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:59,159
interpreted book of books? Would you be willing to start

1465
01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:03,960
your own church declaratively so, and to develop traditions around

1466
01:22:04,039 --> 01:22:07,920
your church and your and your beliefs. It's not weird

1467
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:12,479
that that's already happened, and you're holding the artifact of that.

1468
01:22:12,479 --> 01:22:15,279
That the that the book of Books, the Bible, the

1469
01:22:15,399 --> 01:22:21,319
canon is the fruit is the product of a tradition

1470
01:22:23,039 --> 01:22:28,119
that preceded the object. No, I don't listen to them. Yes,

1471
01:22:28,119 --> 01:22:30,039
you do. You hold that, you hold it in your hand.

1472
01:22:30,119 --> 01:22:34,239
You listen. You just don't agree with their interpretation, but

1473
01:22:34,319 --> 01:22:37,279
you certainly listen to their authority in determining which books

1474
01:22:37,279 --> 01:22:39,319
go into the Bible that's not in the Bible. Rocky,

1475
01:22:40,279 --> 01:22:42,399
the list of books that were to go into the

1476
01:22:42,399 --> 01:22:47,920
Bible that's not in the Bible. How do they know

1477
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:51,800
they aren't their dad? How do you even know you're

1478
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:54,199
not your dad? You like to make stuff up, don't you?

1479
01:23:03,039 --> 01:23:06,119
What can you say? What can you say? You can't

1480
01:23:06,119 --> 01:23:09,319
say much. You can't debate. You can't debate. You can't

1481
01:23:09,319 --> 01:23:14,279
debate a spiritual issue. You can debate a knowledge issue.

1482
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:19,239
You can debate facts against facts if there's a spiritual issue,

1483
01:23:19,239 --> 01:23:21,800
like Rachel pointed out, if there's a not you're not

1484
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:25,920
my daddy, I information is not going to solve that

1485
01:23:25,960 --> 01:23:29,600
you're not my daddy. There's no information you can give

1486
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:37,239
someone that's going to overwhelm that impulse to say, no, Daddy,

1487
01:23:37,479 --> 01:23:41,640
not me. Hold in the goods twenty bucks. I did

1488
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:43,279
the same thing when I was a Baptist. I felt

1489
01:23:43,319 --> 01:23:44,840
like I was in a loop and I never ended.

1490
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:47,039
It's a never ending loop. That was until I actually

1491
01:23:47,119 --> 01:23:49,319
read the church fathers in history. Didn't a rich man

1492
01:23:49,359 --> 01:23:52,119
call Abraham father when he was in the whole father

1493
01:23:52,199 --> 01:23:55,319
thing is insane? Called no man father taking the term

1494
01:23:55,439 --> 01:24:00,239
father capital f knowing exactly that it's referring to. No. Oh,

1495
01:24:00,319 --> 01:24:05,960
man can be equivalent to heavenly father. No man alone man,

1496
01:24:06,199 --> 01:24:10,600
don't call don't refer to man as equal status. It's

1497
01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:13,560
not a word thing. Oh you said it, he said.

1498
01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:16,359
Oh accidentally called my father my daddy father on that

1499
01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:19,720
thanksgiving Oh my gosh, Lord forgive me. That's not what

1500
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:26,520
it's referring to. Justin Henley five dollars, call no merry

1501
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:30,119
woman missus, because all women are brides of Christ. Use

1502
01:24:30,279 --> 01:24:33,760
lady lady Bob and lady Wilson, which means they are married.

1503
01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:37,279
That's a good point. Why not be consistent? Justin Austin

1504
01:24:37,359 --> 01:24:41,119
the Daily, I have been listening a way and aware

1505
01:24:41,279 --> 01:24:49,640
and great extreme Jimbob, call me, call me, don't call

1506
01:24:49,680 --> 01:24:54,119
me father. You listen to your diddy. We didn't the

1507
01:24:54,239 --> 01:25:20,840
deily away mm hmmmmmm. Spiritual enthusiasts, uh, feel free to

1508
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:23,399
go over to my discord. There'll be plenty of people

1509
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:27,079
who sort out all your chat based questions into one

1510
01:25:27,119 --> 01:25:35,000
on one questions. Okay, go for it. What conditioner I

1511
01:25:35,039 --> 01:25:37,840
don't use? I barely condition I don't wash my hair.

1512
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:41,760
Once in a while, I'll use a conditioner that's like

1513
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:50,039
anti Dandriff. It's not father, it's ditty. Yes, this is

1514
01:25:50,039 --> 01:26:02,279
Diddy Diddy speaking of this is kind of wild.

1515
01:26:04,159 --> 01:26:09,119
Speaker 7: Eric Sworsinski from the Preacher Boys podcast, This sissy boy, Uh,

1516
01:26:09,359 --> 01:26:12,960
you know a new platform many reprobate lesbian or atheist,

1517
01:26:13,359 --> 01:26:17,079
you know, to make any accusation. Basically he did about

1518
01:26:17,079 --> 01:26:19,640
three valid episodes a valid abuse.

1519
01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:25,199
Speaker 1: You know, where is this? What is this? Didn't I

1520
01:26:25,199 --> 01:26:31,199
didn't know Nathan Rager had such history. It's just wild.

1521
01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:33,720
That outfit. I feel like when I go on whatever,

1522
01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:36,479
maybe I should source that outfit he's got on. Don't

1523
01:26:36,479 --> 01:26:38,880
you think look at that? Imagine I show up like that.

1524
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:45,239
Oh my gosh, he's in definitely an a basement. That

1525
01:26:45,399 --> 01:26:48,399
is a basement in Indiana or something. I don't even know.

1526
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:58,239
It's got that dark, windowless feel Indiana porker. That's in

1527
01:26:58,279 --> 01:27:01,920
my town. You know that base rip? You know that basement.

1528
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:11,279
M Ben Shapiro with Truppy speaking of Michael Malice. He

1529
01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:15,159
dressed like a I think it was purposeful. Yeah, he's

1530
01:27:15,239 --> 01:27:18,359
dressed just like a pimp on timpoole.

1531
01:27:19,079 --> 01:27:35,159
Speaker 8: Mm hmmm, weird.

1532
01:27:37,640 --> 01:27:39,560
Speaker 1: Anything else you gotta say, Rocky.

1533
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:47,560
Speaker 4: No, No, you make a lot of sense. You make

1534
01:27:47,680 --> 01:27:52,159
a lot of sense. And I'm not saying you're wrong.

1535
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:57,199
I could be wrong, and that probably am. I've been

1536
01:27:57,239 --> 01:28:01,520
wrong before. So is it a salvational issue.

1537
01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:06,880
Speaker 1: Well, that's what's so cool, at least about the church

1538
01:28:08,279 --> 01:28:13,359
I'm in, is that there's no declarative salvation knowledge. But

1539
01:28:13,439 --> 01:28:16,399
there might be issues that you can point to that

1540
01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:19,800
you'd want to be clear about. So while I can't

1541
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:23,680
sit here, ever and make any declarative statements about your salvation,

1542
01:28:23,800 --> 01:28:27,399
because I can't judge, and I can't judge the judge

1543
01:28:27,960 --> 01:28:32,720
as far as the practice, though, if the path is narrow,

1544
01:28:33,039 --> 01:28:36,279
and if Christ established a church, then there's a history

1545
01:28:36,279 --> 01:28:38,279
of the church. And if there's a history of the church,

1546
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:41,399
there's a lineage of men who preserve the history of

1547
01:28:41,439 --> 01:28:43,960
the church. And so if that's the case, and no

1548
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:49,279
one can avoid that, you or me, if there is

1549
01:28:49,319 --> 01:28:51,720
some sort of succession that had to have happened for

1550
01:28:51,800 --> 01:28:54,279
you to even hold the books of books in your hand,

1551
01:28:55,119 --> 01:28:58,479
then it would follow that there isn't a normative authority

1552
01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:01,079
that preceded even our existence, even before you and I

1553
01:29:01,119 --> 01:29:04,279
were born, that this was already in effect, that there

1554
01:29:04,359 --> 01:29:10,399
was some sort of authority that practiced and preserved what

1555
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:14,680
we call Christianity as a as a practice, as a

1556
01:29:14,680 --> 01:29:20,720
theological position, as something worth defending from perversion and heresy.

1557
01:29:21,439 --> 01:29:25,159
And if that's the case, what I point to is

1558
01:29:25,880 --> 01:29:33,199
two thousand years of tradition, an interpretation that is solid.

1559
01:29:33,279 --> 01:29:35,680
Even if you took the Bible away from them, the

1560
01:29:35,800 --> 01:29:39,920
practice would maintain it that that liturgical practices would maintain

1561
01:29:40,119 --> 01:29:47,319
from just straight up tradition, and tradition itself is biblical

1562
01:29:47,359 --> 01:29:52,319
as well. That Thesalonial Thessalonians points to holding steadfast to

1563
01:29:52,439 --> 01:29:58,399
tradition both practice word mouth scripture. So there's extra biblical

1564
01:29:58,439 --> 01:30:01,479
aspects to Christianity. And if you hold a book in

1565
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:03,319
your hand and you called the Bible and think the

1566
01:30:03,359 --> 01:30:07,359
thing you're following, it follows that because that Bible has

1567
01:30:07,399 --> 01:30:12,000
a history where to one instance, it didn't exist, that

1568
01:30:12,119 --> 01:30:16,920
means Christianity must have necessarily existed before the Bible. And

1569
01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:19,640
so if that's the case, Rocky I ask someone like you,

1570
01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:25,039
who I've asked myself this question, Oh, man, what was Christianity? Then?

1571
01:30:25,920 --> 01:30:29,800
What is Christianity? If there's a Christianity that precedes canon,

1572
01:30:34,119 --> 01:30:37,319
what does that look like? What is Christianity in the

1573
01:30:37,399 --> 01:30:42,399
year four fifty five hundred when you and me would

1574
01:30:42,399 --> 01:30:44,880
be lay laity, We would be layperson who didn't have

1575
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:47,000
a book called the Bible. It would be too expensive,

1576
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:49,359
we wouldn't have access to this. So how would we

1577
01:30:49,439 --> 01:30:52,239
get the knowledge and the truth and the scripture? How

1578
01:30:52,279 --> 01:30:56,159
would it be delivered to us? I argue, with historical

1579
01:30:56,319 --> 01:31:00,760
backing that we would get it by attending a church

1580
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:03,239
that would have some sort of authoritative position on it.

1581
01:31:03,359 --> 01:31:03,560
Speaker 8: Right.

1582
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:08,039
Speaker 1: Well, if that's the case, if I were to ask, well,

1583
01:31:08,199 --> 01:31:11,600
what's the narrow path, and I said, I think the

1584
01:31:11,720 --> 01:31:16,479
narrow path would be something akin to closely linked to

1585
01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:21,399
what would be practiced in the year four to five

1586
01:31:21,479 --> 01:31:25,680
hundred and held true to that practice over time, so

1587
01:31:25,680 --> 01:31:30,399
that when you walk into a church, your experience you

1588
01:31:30,439 --> 01:31:32,760
could just as well be in the year five hundred.

1589
01:31:33,279 --> 01:31:35,680
That's appealing to me, Rocky.

1590
01:31:38,399 --> 01:31:43,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, But how do you know whatever father you're following

1591
01:31:44,640 --> 01:31:47,880
as the truth? You know which father do you follow.

1592
01:31:47,960 --> 01:31:50,640
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're talking about like a priest of

1593
01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:54,840
your parish, well, the priest of the parish is not falling.

1594
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:57,840
He's holding an office, he's not holding him his personal

1595
01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:01,039
opinion like a guy. I'm a guy, and this is

1596
01:32:01,079 --> 01:32:05,840
my view of Orthodoxy. He goes through a rigorous process

1597
01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:08,960
to become a priest, and he's bound to holding to

1598
01:32:09,079 --> 01:32:12,720
the tradition of the church going back to the earliest

1599
01:32:13,159 --> 01:32:19,159
So he doesn't have the ability or the authority to

1600
01:32:19,239 --> 01:32:25,479
reinterpret everything because rocky scripture in the practical sense in

1601
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:30,319
Orthodoxy is presented to you in practice through the liturgical worship.

1602
01:32:30,880 --> 01:32:33,840
It's not you sit around and you ask the priest, well,

1603
01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:36,119
let's talk about this scripture, and that you could do

1604
01:32:36,279 --> 01:32:41,479
biblical studies. But that's the difference between someone who's holding

1605
01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:43,560
a Bible and they say, let's do a Bible study

1606
01:32:43,600 --> 01:32:46,119
and go, well, who's lead, how do you know who's leading,

1607
01:32:46,159 --> 01:32:49,000
Who's what's the criteria for truth here? And they go,

1608
01:32:49,039 --> 01:32:51,159
I don't know. We're just gonna kind of we're going

1609
01:32:51,239 --> 01:32:52,800
to say what we get from it, like it's a

1610
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:56,159
book club, and see who sounds like the best, who's

1611
01:32:56,199 --> 01:32:58,560
making the most sense, what I'm saying, is that in

1612
01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:01,479
orthodoxy that's not even occurring. You don't even do that.

1613
01:33:01,640 --> 01:33:05,439
You don't sit around and figure out what each person

1614
01:33:05,560 --> 01:33:10,319
thinks something means. That's not what's happening. There's no reinterpretation

1615
01:33:10,439 --> 01:33:13,800
today of the Bible, whereas there's a lot of that

1616
01:33:13,960 --> 01:33:16,520
going on with someone who just merely holds a Bible

1617
01:33:16,560 --> 01:33:18,600
and rejects any sort of authority. They just go, well,

1618
01:33:18,640 --> 01:33:20,920
I'm gonna I'm gonna interpret the crap out of this thing.

1619
01:33:22,119 --> 01:33:24,680
Then I'm going to join live streams and share my

1620
01:33:24,760 --> 01:33:26,920
own views on what I think I interpreted.

1621
01:33:27,039 --> 01:33:34,880
Speaker 4: Right, I had a consider it, pastor, my authority, my teacher.

1622
01:33:35,319 --> 01:33:38,319
Speaker 1: And you're a pastor of what what church?

1623
01:33:38,840 --> 01:33:39,880
Speaker 4: Church? I used to go to?

1624
01:33:40,640 --> 01:33:41,159
Speaker 1: What church?

1625
01:33:41,239 --> 01:33:43,800
Speaker 4: Is that barrack at church?

1626
01:33:44,840 --> 01:33:51,359
Speaker 1: And is that church have a starting point in history?

1627
01:33:53,479 --> 01:33:58,119
Speaker 4: It was a Dallas seminary student. Okay, my study.

1628
01:33:58,000 --> 01:34:01,960
Speaker 1: Are inbrew And I understand I'm not questioning is is

1629
01:34:02,239 --> 01:34:08,159
is education. I'm saying the church, he's he's authorized, he's

1630
01:34:08,159 --> 01:34:11,199
self authorizing this church. I'm asking the church itself, like,

1631
01:34:11,239 --> 01:34:15,560
for instance, could that church also simultaneously exist as an

1632
01:34:15,560 --> 01:34:18,279
extension of that church simultaneously in another state?

1633
01:34:21,159 --> 01:34:23,880
Speaker 4: At the same time, he had a church that he

1634
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:28,520
it started up in the fifties, so that.

1635
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:31,600
Speaker 1: The origin, yeah, I understand, is.

1636
01:34:30,159 --> 01:34:35,520
Speaker 4: That fifties non denominational Okay. Church. So I understand studied

1637
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:38,439
under the Hebrew, Greek, and Aramic.

1638
01:34:39,119 --> 01:34:42,800
Speaker 1: So that's the thing. If that church has a start point,

1639
01:34:42,880 --> 01:34:46,159
that's not the start point of Jesus Christ starting the

1640
01:34:46,239 --> 01:34:51,439
church establishing the church. I'm asking what's the origin story

1641
01:34:51,479 --> 01:34:53,640
of the church. It sounds like this church started in

1642
01:34:55,520 --> 01:34:58,319
the church started in nineteen fifty. Well, if you're.

1643
01:34:58,239 --> 01:35:01,199
Speaker 4: Taking a local church, yet it's called a local church,

1644
01:35:01,239 --> 01:35:05,039
it's not the church. It's a local.

1645
01:35:04,319 --> 01:35:07,840
Speaker 1: Okay, I understand. But if the local church has to

1646
01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:11,119
be necessarily if it's a true church connected to the church,

1647
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:15,640
which the church that Jesus Christ is the high priest of.

1648
01:35:17,239 --> 01:35:19,119
If Jesus Christ is the high priest of a church,

1649
01:35:19,640 --> 01:35:25,079
the church preceded the nineteen fifty church, right right, Okay,

1650
01:35:25,239 --> 01:35:28,000
So what's the church If it's not your your got

1651
01:35:28,039 --> 01:35:31,119
your church that you that that guy established in nineteen fifty,

1652
01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:33,880
what is the church that existed church?

1653
01:35:33,960 --> 01:35:38,800
Speaker 4: I believe the church is all believers, the universal, it's everyone,

1654
01:35:39,800 --> 01:35:44,119
every soul of it. Everyone who's who believes and follows

1655
01:35:44,159 --> 01:35:47,760
the gospel is a member of the body. Some people.

1656
01:35:48,279 --> 01:35:51,199
Some people have a gift of teaching. Some have a

1657
01:35:51,239 --> 01:35:57,600
gift that helps. Some people have different gifts. And I

1658
01:35:57,680 --> 01:36:01,119
believe there's a gift of teaching. And so my pastor teacher,

1659
01:36:01,239 --> 01:36:05,159
I believed he was had to give the teaching. He

1660
01:36:05,239 --> 01:36:08,720
never called himself father, but he was the elder. He

1661
01:36:08,880 --> 01:36:11,239
was in charge of that local church.

1662
01:36:12,119 --> 01:36:17,239
Speaker 1: Okay, I, oh, good thing. He would have been burning

1663
01:36:17,279 --> 01:36:20,159
in hell for saying that word.

1664
01:36:20,319 --> 01:36:25,319
Speaker 4: And that's not what I'm saying. The word father, and

1665
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:29,680
you're humorous doesn't win every debate, I mean debates, I don't.

1666
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:32,039
I'm not a debater. I don't know how to debate.

1667
01:36:32,439 --> 01:36:36,039
That's not my thing. I'm just trying to talk to you,

1668
01:36:36,399 --> 01:36:37,279
have a conversation.

1669
01:36:37,479 --> 01:36:40,159
Speaker 1: Oh that's fine, that's fine. I just rigorous me.

1670
01:36:40,279 --> 01:36:44,199
Speaker 4: It doesn't matter. You can call me whatever you want.

1671
01:36:44,319 --> 01:36:46,800
It doesn't really matter. It doesn't hurt my feeling.

1672
01:36:48,720 --> 01:36:56,760
Speaker 1: Anything else. Okay. So when you said, you said you

1673
01:36:56,840 --> 01:36:59,439
believe the church is anyone who follows the Gospel, and

1674
01:36:59,479 --> 01:37:02,039
I asked you for is there a way in which

1675
01:37:02,039 --> 01:37:07,399
someone could incorrectly follow or let's say convey the teachings

1676
01:37:07,399 --> 01:37:08,039
of the gospel.

1677
01:37:08,960 --> 01:37:12,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's false I'm not saying everyone who

1678
01:37:12,640 --> 01:37:14,520
calls them a church is a church.

1679
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:18,800
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is a it's a Is there a

1680
01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:19,439
false church?

1681
01:37:20,479 --> 01:37:22,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's false churches.

1682
01:37:22,640 --> 01:37:27,680
Speaker 1: Can a false church literally hold the gospel and teach

1683
01:37:27,720 --> 01:37:30,159
it directly and say they believe in the gospel and

1684
01:37:30,159 --> 01:37:35,600
they're teaching it and be incorrectly teaching? What do you

1685
01:37:35,680 --> 01:37:38,640
mean if they have can a church? Can a church

1686
01:37:39,079 --> 01:37:41,279
open its doors and say we're going to teach the

1687
01:37:41,319 --> 01:37:44,000
gospel and they stand on stage and they do what

1688
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:46,079
they believe is teaching the gospel and they think they

1689
01:37:46,119 --> 01:37:48,239
believe in the gospel, and they believe that they're teaching

1690
01:37:48,239 --> 01:37:50,920
the gospel. I said, is it possible, I'm asking, is

1691
01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:54,439
it possible that they are incorrectly teaching the gospel even

1692
01:37:54,439 --> 01:37:56,800
though they believe they're they're teaching it?

1693
01:37:56,880 --> 01:37:57,119
Speaker 4: Sure?

1694
01:37:58,479 --> 01:38:01,680
Speaker 1: If that's the case, rocky. If it's the case that

1695
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:04,840
a group of people can start at church and they

1696
01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:07,359
believe they're in the gospel, but they believe they're teaching

1697
01:38:07,359 --> 01:38:09,039
the gospel, and it could be the case that they're

1698
01:38:09,039 --> 01:38:13,239
incorrectly teaching the gospel. This being a logical possibility and

1699
01:38:13,279 --> 01:38:17,439
a practical possibility means that there's an authority and a

1700
01:38:17,479 --> 01:38:20,039
criteria to be able to tell you whether or not

1701
01:38:20,079 --> 01:38:22,439
they're correctly teaching the gospel right.

1702
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:30,800
Speaker 4: Well, that's where I believe that you have to rightly interpret,

1703
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:33,079
you know, the word God.

1704
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:36,199
Speaker 1: To rightly interpret the word of God means that there's

1705
01:38:36,199 --> 01:38:39,520
an authority to tell you did you correctly interpret this?

1706
01:38:39,640 --> 01:38:43,399
Or is this some sort of heretical blasphemy, blasphemy view

1707
01:38:43,479 --> 01:38:45,239
or something. Right, there's got to be some authority that

1708
01:38:45,319 --> 01:38:47,399
tells you whether or not you're correctly doing it right.

1709
01:38:49,840 --> 01:38:52,399
You know how you do a test in math, and

1710
01:38:52,680 --> 01:38:55,239
the authority on the matters of whether you got the

1711
01:38:55,279 --> 01:38:57,680
answers right or not is the teacher and the teacher.

1712
01:38:57,800 --> 01:39:00,479
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, I understand what you're trying to say. You're

1713
01:39:00,479 --> 01:39:02,600
trying to say there has to be some kind of

1714
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:07,800
human authority that's above me that that I have to

1715
01:39:08,039 --> 01:39:10,880
You know, he's the father, so he's the elder.

1716
01:39:11,279 --> 01:39:15,319
Speaker 1: You mean, like being a father of the home. No, No,

1717
01:39:15,399 --> 01:39:18,399
I'm not telling about like that. Well no, are you?

1718
01:39:18,479 --> 01:39:18,600
Speaker 4: Well?

1719
01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:20,800
Speaker 1: The reason I use that as an excuse, Rocky, or

1720
01:39:20,840 --> 01:39:24,840
as an example, is that if you're a Christian and

1721
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:27,359
you believe in the quote Gospel as you say, then

1722
01:39:27,520 --> 01:39:30,279
it would follow that who you are in the home

1723
01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:35,560
is a representation of of Christ in a sense, and

1724
01:39:35,680 --> 01:39:38,119
in a sense your home is a type of an

1725
01:39:38,159 --> 01:39:39,119
extension of a church.

1726
01:39:39,319 --> 01:39:39,479
Speaker 4: Right.

1727
01:39:39,880 --> 01:39:43,159
Speaker 1: So if that's the case, you, the father of the home,

1728
01:39:43,319 --> 01:39:44,920
are the authority of the owner.

1729
01:39:45,039 --> 01:39:45,159
Speaker 4: Right.

1730
01:39:45,640 --> 01:39:48,560
Speaker 1: If your kid says I think this means this and

1731
01:39:48,680 --> 01:39:51,600
Christ isn't really God, let's say they say that. Let's

1732
01:39:51,640 --> 01:39:56,199
say they deny the Trinity's authority. That's right, And so

1733
01:39:56,239 --> 01:39:57,720
what authority you under?

1734
01:39:59,760 --> 01:40:02,600
Speaker 4: I'm I'm under Christ. He's the head of the church.

1735
01:40:03,159 --> 01:40:07,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, but how do you where's the authority in the

1736
01:40:07,079 --> 01:40:08,680
world of Christ church?

1737
01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:15,920
Speaker 4: Well, I don't believe it's this guy or that guy.

1738
01:40:16,439 --> 01:40:16,920
Speaker 2: But it's you.

1739
01:40:17,279 --> 01:40:19,439
Speaker 1: Actually, you do believe it's this guy. You You go

1740
01:40:19,520 --> 01:40:22,079
like this, I believe this guy. So here's what we have, Rocky.

1741
01:40:22,479 --> 01:40:24,800
You believe that Christ established a church, but there's no

1742
01:40:24,880 --> 01:40:28,399
actual church. It's anyone who believes in in in the Gospel.

1743
01:40:28,640 --> 01:40:31,239
And I ask you, what if your son is under

1744
01:40:31,279 --> 01:40:34,199
your authority, what authority are you under? And you say Christ?

1745
01:40:34,359 --> 01:40:36,960
And I say, okay, So you're just like you are

1746
01:40:36,960 --> 01:40:40,119
criticizing Catholics for having a pope. Guess what, Rocky, you

1747
01:40:40,119 --> 01:40:45,800
know who the pope is in your instance? Guess who

1748
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:46,359
the pope is?

1749
01:40:49,760 --> 01:40:56,039
Speaker 4: I don't know, So you gonna get lost. You're the pope, yeah,

1750
01:40:56,039 --> 01:40:56,840
of my family?

1751
01:40:56,920 --> 01:40:59,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're the pope. You're the ultimate authority of

1752
01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:00,000
the gospel.

1753
01:41:00,119 --> 01:41:03,239
Speaker 4: What the scripture says that I'm the authority. I believe

1754
01:41:03,239 --> 01:41:04,800
in the patriarch and all that I'm not.

1755
01:41:07,000 --> 01:41:12,199
Speaker 1: Is a patriarch hierarchical Yeah. Okay, So we have Christ

1756
01:41:12,279 --> 01:41:15,359
established a church with men in in material in the

1757
01:41:15,399 --> 01:41:20,720
material world, right, yes, biblical? Right, that's biblical. Christ established

1758
01:41:20,720 --> 01:41:24,159
a church with men. He has apostles, the body, the

1759
01:41:24,199 --> 01:41:27,760
College of Apostles who represent him expand the body of

1760
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:32,880
the church. Those are men, right, Yeah? Are is your

1761
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:38,560
authority higher than the apostles? No? Oh, so you're not

1762
01:41:38,600 --> 01:41:41,399
the authority then? So there is uh, there is a

1763
01:41:41,439 --> 01:41:46,159
lineage and and a hierarchical system of Christ.

1764
01:41:46,920 --> 01:41:52,399
Speaker 4: And do you believe there's current apostles? You believe there's.

1765
01:41:52,239 --> 01:41:54,920
Speaker 1: Well, I mean they're they're a lot well and they're

1766
01:41:54,920 --> 01:41:57,119
alive in a sense. But that's like we're getting into

1767
01:41:57,880 --> 01:42:02,439
something distinct from right now. We're talking about the rigidity

1768
01:42:02,880 --> 01:42:08,039
of a church existing and a body, a body that exists, right,

1769
01:42:08,279 --> 01:42:11,720
that is the church. If Christ established a church historically,

1770
01:42:11,760 --> 01:42:14,039
there was a moment you didn't exist, and I didn't exist.

1771
01:42:14,640 --> 01:42:21,359
That body existed in a way in material reality with

1772
01:42:21,560 --> 01:42:25,039
men and these and if we point to the apostles

1773
01:42:25,399 --> 01:42:28,079
and we say, these are the men that are called

1774
01:42:28,119 --> 01:42:32,119
to go out and teach properly, teach what you call

1775
01:42:32,159 --> 01:42:35,720
the gospel, teach and expand what the churches and share

1776
01:42:35,720 --> 01:42:38,520
it right and get people into the church. If that's

1777
01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:41,640
the case, and you admit that there they're an authority,

1778
01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:45,079
and you admit that the patriarchal system, which is hierarchical,

1779
01:42:45,479 --> 01:42:51,079
means that there is a top and then there is

1780
01:42:51,119 --> 01:42:55,920
a movement toward the bottom. Right, that's what hierarchy.

1781
01:42:56,800 --> 01:43:00,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, when I said patriarch I meant that I believe

1782
01:43:00,479 --> 01:43:03,880
that the husband is the head of the household. I

1783
01:43:03,880 --> 01:43:09,680
don't believe women should be over. But I don't know

1784
01:43:09,760 --> 01:43:15,960
that there's currently a group of men that have authority

1785
01:43:16,039 --> 01:43:19,239
over the whole universal Church. I don't know.

1786
01:43:20,319 --> 01:43:20,680
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1787
01:43:21,439 --> 01:43:27,399
Speaker 4: It's just that I remember certain scriptures that says, you know,

1788
01:43:27,520 --> 01:43:30,800
like the Pharisees. They had traditions over and Jesus was

1789
01:43:30,880 --> 01:43:36,840
right there and they they were listening to their traditions,

1790
01:43:36,880 --> 01:43:41,439
the Pharisees and the Sadducees and their traditions, and Jesus

1791
01:43:41,439 --> 01:43:42,720
spoke against traditions.

1792
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:46,079
Speaker 1: I think no, no, he didn't speak against traditions plural,

1793
01:43:46,359 --> 01:43:49,319
Otherwise it wouldn't be in Thessalonians to hold said fast

1794
01:43:49,359 --> 01:43:53,079
to traditions. There are specific traditions he's they're referring to

1795
01:43:53,159 --> 01:43:57,960
when you say men made traditions, correct, I don't know

1796
01:43:58,000 --> 01:44:00,239
where there are a set of things that people we're

1797
01:44:00,239 --> 01:44:02,840
doing at the time that were man made traditions that

1798
01:44:02,880 --> 01:44:03,720
had nothing to.

1799
01:44:03,840 --> 01:44:11,800
Speaker 4: See a different thinking that he was trying to say that.

1800
01:44:09,680 --> 01:44:13,479
Speaker 1: That can God give us a tradition?

1801
01:44:14,319 --> 01:44:14,479
Speaker 2: Wait?

1802
01:44:14,600 --> 01:44:17,600
Speaker 1: Wait, Rocky, hold on, can God give us a tradition

1803
01:44:17,800 --> 01:44:18,279
to follow?

1804
01:44:19,119 --> 01:44:19,680
Speaker 4: Sure? Yeah?

1805
01:44:20,119 --> 01:44:22,720
Speaker 1: Okay? So is can there be a distinction between man

1806
01:44:22,720 --> 01:44:24,880
made tradition and God given tradition?

1807
01:44:26,560 --> 01:44:27,479
Speaker 4: I believe so. Yeah.

1808
01:44:27,840 --> 01:44:30,039
Speaker 1: So I'm going to ask you to just consider that

1809
01:44:30,119 --> 01:44:33,640
when you refer to the scripture that says tradition bad,

1810
01:44:34,359 --> 01:44:37,680
I just want to invite you to consider that that

1811
01:44:37,760 --> 01:44:41,359
doesn't follow that tradition is bad it was specifically a

1812
01:44:41,399 --> 01:44:44,119
type of tradition, a man made tradition. But if you believe,

1813
01:44:44,399 --> 01:44:46,399
if you believe in God and you believe in Christ,

1814
01:44:46,479 --> 01:44:49,079
that Christ established a church, and you believe there's a

1815
01:44:49,119 --> 01:44:54,119
proper way to practice practice that right to be a

1816
01:44:54,119 --> 01:44:56,359
part of this church and to practice it and keep

1817
01:44:56,399 --> 01:45:00,439
it in alive and well through the generations, that's a tradition.

1818
01:45:01,359 --> 01:45:04,479
What do you do that through? What else? What else

1819
01:45:04,720 --> 01:45:08,279
do you use as a mechanism to transfer knowledge and

1820
01:45:08,359 --> 01:45:10,920
practice to the younger generations? What would you call it

1821
01:45:10,920 --> 01:45:11,880
if it's not a tradition?

1822
01:45:13,079 --> 01:45:13,640
Speaker 8: Download?

1823
01:45:15,039 --> 01:45:20,640
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, if tradition is just how do you determine

1824
01:45:20,640 --> 01:45:21,600
which tradition is?

1825
01:45:23,520 --> 01:45:23,640
Speaker 7: Well?

1826
01:45:23,680 --> 01:45:26,239
Speaker 1: I would say the one that the one that maintain

1827
01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:28,960
and reflects the religion of the apostles.

1828
01:45:29,199 --> 01:45:31,760
Speaker 4: Do we use the scriptures to help?

1829
01:45:32,600 --> 01:45:34,840
Speaker 1: Not all always, but help you need?

1830
01:45:35,760 --> 01:45:38,479
Speaker 4: Is a scripture the final authority? Or is it your tradition? No?

1831
01:45:38,720 --> 01:45:40,800
Speaker 1: Not sold sept Well.

1832
01:45:40,960 --> 01:45:43,079
Speaker 4: No, I'm asking that question.

1833
01:45:43,479 --> 01:45:45,680
Speaker 6: What what made the scripture the scripture?

1834
01:45:46,560 --> 01:45:46,640
Speaker 4: Like?

1835
01:45:47,199 --> 01:45:49,840
Speaker 6: Where did they pick the books? When did they pick

1836
01:45:49,920 --> 01:45:54,960
the books? Which books like? And and like? Your Bible,

1837
01:45:55,000 --> 01:46:00,720
for example, was made by a man who wanted to

1838
01:46:00,840 --> 01:46:03,960
take out wanted to take out some of the books

1839
01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:07,479
that were previously considered part of the canon of scripture.

1840
01:46:08,039 --> 01:46:14,560
So aren't you deciding arbitrarily which canons you follow are

1841
01:46:14,600 --> 01:46:17,479
not because you chose.

1842
01:46:17,920 --> 01:46:18,640
Speaker 4: They would have to?

1843
01:46:19,359 --> 01:46:24,560
Speaker 10: You know they have to, But how do you know,

1844
01:46:26,359 --> 01:46:29,680
like when when the when the Bible was was formed

1845
01:46:29,960 --> 01:46:35,079
as such, Bible means library, okay, and the apostles means

1846
01:46:35,399 --> 01:46:39,760
messengers okay, And messenger is the same as angel.

1847
01:46:40,039 --> 01:46:45,560
Speaker 6: Angel means messenger. So like the Scripture itself uses the

1848
01:46:45,600 --> 01:46:49,920
word angel to refer to God and to and to

1849
01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:54,239
refer to angelic beings, to to to spiritual created beings.

1850
01:46:54,520 --> 01:46:57,399
So when you're talking about you don't think there are

1851
01:46:57,600 --> 01:47:02,000
apostles living today, it's like you're basically denying the possibility

1852
01:47:02,520 --> 01:47:07,319
that God could choose somebody to speak for him through

1853
01:47:07,359 --> 01:47:07,920
that person.

1854
01:47:08,520 --> 01:47:08,720
Speaker 4: Right.

1855
01:47:09,039 --> 01:47:11,800
Speaker 6: So what we're saying basically is that there is a

1856
01:47:11,840 --> 01:47:15,920
living tradition that has formed the scripture, and that the

1857
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:19,479
scripture that you have comes from a splintered group that

1858
01:47:19,600 --> 01:47:22,560
decided that some of the books it didn't like and

1859
01:47:22,600 --> 01:47:25,600
it cut them off from the from the canon. So

1860
01:47:26,119 --> 01:47:29,000
what Jimbob is trying to to to let's say, point

1861
01:47:29,000 --> 01:47:32,680
out is that the very canon that you have was

1862
01:47:32,680 --> 01:47:37,159
was collected by people, and it was collected by people

1863
01:47:37,880 --> 01:47:43,399
who wanted to revise a previously existing canon. So what

1864
01:47:43,520 --> 01:47:47,920
he's pointing out is if you do that, you're already

1865
01:47:48,479 --> 01:47:52,399
let's say, denying the authority that came before you. And

1866
01:47:52,439 --> 01:47:55,520
you're saying, I'm the only authority. I'm the sole authority

1867
01:47:55,560 --> 01:47:59,399
to decide who God is because the previous people they

1868
01:47:59,439 --> 01:48:03,239
got it wrong. So either God lies to people or

1869
01:48:03,279 --> 01:48:06,800
your tradition is built on nothing. What we say is no, no, no,

1870
01:48:06,920 --> 01:48:11,840
The tradition is perfect. What Christ revealed to man was perfect.

1871
01:48:11,880 --> 01:48:15,039
The apostles had the fullness of the faith, and the

1872
01:48:15,079 --> 01:48:20,560
canon was built up through time, collected through time through

1873
01:48:20,720 --> 01:48:25,680
divine inspiration. And that tradition, the tradition that was able

1874
01:48:25,720 --> 01:48:30,680
to collect the different writings which were let's say, separated

1875
01:48:30,720 --> 01:48:36,359
by sometimes hundreds of years in time. Like that tradition,

1876
01:48:36,560 --> 01:48:40,039
not only is it alive, but it's actually necessary as

1877
01:48:40,039 --> 01:48:43,560
a belief for us to call ourselves Christian. Like, if

1878
01:48:43,560 --> 01:48:46,760
we are Christian, then we believe that Christ revealed himself

1879
01:48:46,800 --> 01:48:48,840
to a church and that church is living. And I

1880
01:48:48,880 --> 01:48:53,079
get the attempt to want to say, well, it's a

1881
01:48:53,119 --> 01:48:56,439
community of believers, and you only know if they believe

1882
01:48:56,479 --> 01:48:59,039
in their heart. But the reality is the church has

1883
01:48:59,119 --> 01:49:03,920
definite boundary. And if you're saying, well, I'm going to

1884
01:49:04,039 --> 01:49:08,760
choose these teachings but not those teachings, you've already gone

1885
01:49:09,279 --> 01:49:12,800
way way out of line from the tradition. Like you're

1886
01:49:12,840 --> 01:49:15,159
not in the tradition already, if you feel that you

1887
01:49:15,239 --> 01:49:18,079
have the authority to go against what the tradition has

1888
01:49:18,079 --> 01:49:18,920
already stated.

1889
01:49:19,600 --> 01:49:22,960
Speaker 1: Also, there's a contradiction, Rocky, even if you gave yourself

1890
01:49:23,000 --> 01:49:25,600
that advantage, you know, you called it an advantage, you'd

1891
01:49:25,600 --> 01:49:28,279
be like, well, I don't need to hold these these

1892
01:49:28,319 --> 01:49:31,680
past traditions, this past authority, whatever you come to as

1893
01:49:31,720 --> 01:49:34,479
the truth, Rocky, of the the truth of the matter

1894
01:49:34,520 --> 01:49:38,520
of being a Christian in practice, the moment you practice

1895
01:49:38,520 --> 01:49:40,640
and teach it and try to preserve it. That's just

1896
01:49:40,680 --> 01:49:43,039
a new tradition that you're creating. It's innovation. We call

1897
01:49:43,079 --> 01:49:46,199
it innovation. And so it's not like you'd be doing

1898
01:49:46,279 --> 01:49:49,800
anything different than before anyway, you just be inconsistent with

1899
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:52,920
the past. But as far as Prince on principle, the

1900
01:49:53,239 --> 01:49:57,720
principle of the argument is you're not actually against tradition,

1901
01:49:57,920 --> 01:50:01,079
because no matter what you come to as the conclusion

1902
01:50:01,119 --> 01:50:04,439
of the practice of religion, as soon as you teach

1903
01:50:04,520 --> 01:50:07,560
it and preserve it and try to like teach it

1904
01:50:07,640 --> 01:50:11,439
and push it down through generations, that's you got a

1905
01:50:11,439 --> 01:50:14,640
tradition there. So the only question is is it consistent?

1906
01:50:14,720 --> 01:50:17,399
Is a coherent does it actually can you track it

1907
01:50:17,479 --> 01:50:22,039
back to the Apostles? Well, you if there was a

1908
01:50:22,119 --> 01:50:25,399
church rocky, no matter how you felt about it, no

1909
01:50:25,399 --> 01:50:26,960
matter how you felt about it, if there was a

1910
01:50:27,039 --> 01:50:31,760
church that could literally track its lineage back to the

1911
01:50:31,800 --> 01:50:36,840
Apostles with documentation, does that hold any weight for you?

1912
01:50:42,119 --> 01:50:47,680
Speaker 4: But everybody claims that No, not everyone claims that. Well,

1913
01:50:48,640 --> 01:50:51,680
I don't know. Yeah, I'm agreeing with a lot of

1914
01:50:51,720 --> 01:50:54,560
what you say about traditions and stuff, and I'm just

1915
01:50:54,600 --> 01:50:55,840
trying to learn some stuff.

1916
01:50:56,359 --> 01:50:58,279
Speaker 1: Sure, I'm not here.

1917
01:50:58,880 --> 01:51:02,399
Speaker 4: I'm not saying you guys are wrong and that I'm right.

1918
01:51:02,520 --> 01:51:06,479
I don't know. You guys make a lot of logical

1919
01:51:06,520 --> 01:51:08,840
and reasonable thanks.

1920
01:51:09,039 --> 01:51:13,199
Speaker 1: I mean argument, have you ever attended.

1921
01:51:14,119 --> 01:51:16,399
Speaker 4: Scriptures? Are logical and reasonable?

1922
01:51:17,479 --> 01:51:22,239
Speaker 1: They are? I Have you ever attended a divine liturgy

1923
01:51:22,239 --> 01:51:29,079
at an Orthodox church? No? Okay, Well, I mean I

1924
01:51:29,119 --> 01:51:31,560
know that the panel sphere, and debating this and the

1925
01:51:31,600 --> 01:51:33,520
truth of matter and all this stuff can can lead

1926
01:51:33,600 --> 01:51:38,800
us into just like just propositional circles. But if you

1927
01:51:38,880 --> 01:51:41,119
were interested and things made sense to you, and you

1928
01:51:41,199 --> 01:51:47,000
wanted uh to experience a participat like a participatory element

1929
01:51:47,119 --> 01:51:50,720
of Orthodox Christianity. Being that both Ivan and I are

1930
01:51:50,920 --> 01:51:54,600
defending it, my my invitation to you is just go

1931
01:51:54,680 --> 01:51:58,239
and experience it, because you it's not wouldn't be about

1932
01:51:58,279 --> 01:52:00,600
debating the truth of the matter. I just just tell

1933
01:52:00,600 --> 01:52:01,640
you that there's another.

1934
01:52:02,600 --> 01:52:07,279
Speaker 4: I'll check going out. I've been to almost other church and.

1935
01:52:08,239 --> 01:52:15,359
Speaker 1: Make sure it's a Russian or Greek Orthodox Okay, all right.

1936
01:52:15,840 --> 01:52:18,359
Speaker 6: Also, what I would add is tradition.

1937
01:52:18,960 --> 01:52:22,319
Speaker 1: Okay, you can read the I'll read this really quick. Sorry,

1938
01:52:22,560 --> 01:52:25,319
easy raider eleven twenty bucks, thank you. I married a

1939
01:52:25,319 --> 01:52:28,880
Mormon girl. I converted her. I grew up without religion,

1940
01:52:29,079 --> 01:52:31,520
but after the process of joining the LDS Church, I

1941
01:52:31,520 --> 01:52:34,079
now believe in Jesus Christ, but not the church. Through

1942
01:52:34,239 --> 01:52:37,640
me learning, I have discovered Orthodoxy. He then asks, how

1943
01:52:37,680 --> 01:52:41,680
do I approach the truth with my very devout wife?

1944
01:52:42,479 --> 01:52:49,680
Very slowly and start to go and slowly but surely

1945
01:52:49,760 --> 01:52:53,600
you share your experience and the value you're getting in

1946
01:52:53,880 --> 01:52:56,359
this kind of stuff. You know, obviously, talk to your priest.

1947
01:52:56,359 --> 01:52:59,439
If you end up an easy writer Raider, start attending.

1948
01:52:59,520 --> 01:53:03,800
Don't ask people online like me necessarily, but your priest

1949
01:53:03,840 --> 01:53:05,600
will tell you the way in which you do that.

1950
01:53:05,680 --> 01:53:09,079
For me, Honestly, easy Rader, I had to, Uh, it

1951
01:53:09,119 --> 01:53:13,479
took three years. Now I just finally did my lifetime

1952
01:53:13,520 --> 01:53:18,520
confession this morning, uh for a preparation for baptism in May.

1953
01:53:19,159 --> 01:53:22,479
And Megan and I had to actually go through a

1954
01:53:22,520 --> 01:53:25,520
longer process just together because she comes from a very

1955
01:53:25,720 --> 01:53:29,520
Protestant view. I came from a mixed view in practice,

1956
01:53:29,640 --> 01:53:33,880
and it wasn't just like some simple insert like a

1957
01:53:34,079 --> 01:53:38,119
like a Legos It wasn't like a Lego set. There's

1958
01:53:38,399 --> 01:53:41,439
you have to use like patients. It is a big

1959
01:53:41,520 --> 01:53:44,000
it's a big jump, it's a culture shock, it's it's

1960
01:53:44,039 --> 01:53:46,800
a lot of things. So easier Rader, I could only say,

1961
01:53:47,159 --> 01:53:52,399
talk to your your priest as you start attending, and honestly,

1962
01:53:52,600 --> 01:53:59,159
maybe don't even anticipate contention. Maybe sometimes our anticipation of

1963
01:53:59,239 --> 01:54:03,319
contention is sometimes they just follow you, know what I mean?

1964
01:54:03,359 --> 01:54:09,760
Sometimes they just follow you. So yeah, anything that you

1965
01:54:09,800 --> 01:54:11,439
want to add on that I even being.

1966
01:54:11,960 --> 01:54:14,000
Speaker 6: No, no, no, that that was perfect, that was perfect.

1967
01:54:14,079 --> 01:54:17,199
I wanted I wanted to address some concerns that Rocky had.

1968
01:54:18,079 --> 01:54:23,159
I mean, tradition means literally what is received. So if

1969
01:54:23,199 --> 01:54:26,800
you think about the relationship between man and God in

1970
01:54:26,880 --> 01:54:31,399
the beginning, when God created Adam, like Adam walked with God, right,

1971
01:54:31,800 --> 01:54:35,359
and the there is like a there is a loss

1972
01:54:35,359 --> 01:54:38,840
of communion. Okay, man falls, but it's not like we

1973
01:54:38,960 --> 01:54:44,720
fall and everything that man did was wrong. Right, there

1974
01:54:44,800 --> 01:54:47,720
is a progressive fall like Adam falls, but then Caine

1975
01:54:47,760 --> 01:54:56,079
falls even farther away, right, and Cane's descended, kidd, And like,

1976
01:54:57,279 --> 01:55:00,800
this means that basically there is a tradition. Let's say

1977
01:55:00,800 --> 01:55:05,319
that because if humanity had completely fallen outside let's say

1978
01:55:05,319 --> 01:55:08,880
of God, like we would have destroyed ourselves. And that

1979
01:55:09,000 --> 01:55:12,159
is what that is what the flood was meant to do. Right,

1980
01:55:12,439 --> 01:55:16,840
the flood was meant to purify mankind because things had

1981
01:55:16,880 --> 01:55:20,760
been progressively getting worse and worse. But then let's say,

1982
01:55:21,039 --> 01:55:25,720
Noah saved a kernel of that tradition of that, let's

1983
01:55:25,720 --> 01:55:30,159
say relationship with God. Now we orthodox, we believe that

1984
01:55:30,600 --> 01:55:34,199
we are saved. Let's say together because we humans, we

1985
01:55:34,279 --> 01:55:37,920
relate to each other, and we aren't like you were

1986
01:55:38,039 --> 01:55:41,039
making an emphasis on let's say call no manfather or

1987
01:55:41,079 --> 01:55:44,800
the idea that that like we we cannot have let's

1988
01:55:44,840 --> 01:55:49,279
say a human a human authority on top of us.

1989
01:55:49,640 --> 01:55:49,840
Speaker 4: Right.

1990
01:55:50,279 --> 01:55:53,319
Speaker 6: But the reality is that if we're in relationship with

1991
01:55:53,359 --> 01:55:57,960
one another, like, we are learning from other people constantly,

1992
01:55:58,359 --> 01:56:00,760
and the fact that we're limited means that we actually

1993
01:56:00,840 --> 01:56:05,000
need the other person to compliment us, to teach us

1994
01:56:05,000 --> 01:56:08,760
what we don't know, because we cannot approach God by ourselves, right,

1995
01:56:09,439 --> 01:56:13,279
we don't have it in us to let's say, deify ourselves.

1996
01:56:13,319 --> 01:56:16,960
We are deified. We are let's say, participating in God

1997
01:56:17,479 --> 01:56:19,199
through our relationship with other people.

1998
01:56:19,520 --> 01:56:19,720
Speaker 4: Right.

1999
01:56:20,159 --> 01:56:25,079
Speaker 6: And it is in that sense that the tradition fully

2000
01:56:25,560 --> 01:56:28,680
let's say it was never lost, never lost completely. Why

2001
01:56:28,720 --> 01:56:31,119
because if it was lost completely, then we would have

2002
01:56:31,199 --> 01:56:36,319
been obliterated, like if humanity had completely fallen out of

2003
01:56:36,359 --> 01:56:40,000
favor from God, like God would have like destroyed humanity

2004
01:56:40,199 --> 01:56:44,279
and started over. Why, Like God himself tells Moses, like, look,

2005
01:56:44,319 --> 01:56:47,000
you're Israelites. I can like make them out of mud

2006
01:56:47,000 --> 01:56:50,039
if they don't repent, so like go make sure and

2007
01:56:50,079 --> 01:56:52,680
then goes Moses goes down the mountain, he breaks down

2008
01:56:52,720 --> 01:56:56,000
the tablets, and he like obliterates half the camp. That

2009
01:56:56,119 --> 01:56:59,640
is like fallen into idolatry. So like God doesn't need

2010
01:56:59,680 --> 01:57:04,119
anything from us, but he knows that we need him,

2011
01:57:04,359 --> 01:57:08,479
so he allows us, let's say, to get progressively closer

2012
01:57:08,520 --> 01:57:11,359
to him or to move away from him up to

2013
01:57:11,359 --> 01:57:14,760
a certain limit. So what you're saying about not having anybody,

2014
01:57:14,880 --> 01:57:18,760
let's say, above us, it's kind of very individualistic. It's like,

2015
01:57:18,920 --> 01:57:22,039
I don't have anything above me, but I can be

2016
01:57:22,479 --> 01:57:25,840
my own head, right, And the reality is no man

2017
01:57:25,880 --> 01:57:27,760
can do that. Like if you're in if you want

2018
01:57:27,760 --> 01:57:31,119
to be consistent, then you have to admit that you

2019
01:57:31,119 --> 01:57:35,279
yourself cannot let's say, deify yourself, that you yourself cannot say, oh,

2020
01:57:35,319 --> 01:57:37,600
I've got it, because then you would be repeating what

2021
01:57:38,359 --> 01:57:41,359
Eve did. You would be repeating what Adam and Eve did,

2022
01:57:41,399 --> 01:57:45,000
which is like I'm simply grabbing, grabbing. Let's say, the

2023
01:57:45,039 --> 01:57:46,880
fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, and the

2024
01:57:46,960 --> 01:57:50,520
idea of participating in Christ's mystical body is that we

2025
01:57:50,800 --> 01:57:53,359
can eat Christ. Christ is in the place of the

2026
01:57:53,399 --> 01:57:55,439
knowledge of good and evil, but now we're taking it

2027
01:57:55,479 --> 01:57:59,039
in humility. Letting God, like you said, be our head,

2028
01:57:59,199 --> 01:58:02,479
but also through a people. Right, so the church, like

2029
01:58:02,600 --> 01:58:05,600
nobody in the church is perfect. Nobody in the church

2030
01:58:05,600 --> 01:58:07,920
says I'm perfect, because the moment you say I'm perfect,

2031
01:58:08,000 --> 01:58:11,479
I'm already a saint, you're clearly in delusion. A true

2032
01:58:11,520 --> 01:58:15,279
saint will not say, oh, I'm saved, I'm saved. I'm saved,

2033
01:58:15,319 --> 01:58:18,960
and you I have no idea, or everybody is saved. No, no, no.

2034
01:58:19,079 --> 01:58:21,840
If you say everybody saved or I'm saved, what you're

2035
01:58:21,880 --> 01:58:23,880
saying is basically, I don't have to do anything. I've

2036
01:58:23,880 --> 01:58:26,279
already got it in the bag. I don't have anything

2037
01:58:26,359 --> 01:58:29,279
more to learn like I've got it, and I don't

2038
01:58:29,279 --> 01:58:31,479
care what your opinion is. I have nothing to learn

2039
01:58:31,520 --> 01:58:33,680
from you, like you cut yourself from communion.

2040
01:58:34,239 --> 01:58:38,199
Speaker 1: For instance, Rocky, this morning, I asked my priest about

2041
01:58:39,000 --> 01:58:42,119
to reflect on when where he was at when he converted,

2042
01:58:42,159 --> 01:58:44,920
and he laughed at me and then he said I

2043
01:58:45,439 --> 01:58:48,439
he said converted past tense. He said, I'm still converting.

2044
01:58:49,560 --> 01:58:52,840
So a perfect example of like this ongoing it's just

2045
01:58:52,880 --> 01:58:56,319
like this ongoing path. There's no like I got there.

2046
01:58:56,960 --> 01:58:59,199
I attained all the knowledge in this sort of thing.

2047
01:58:59,239 --> 01:59:01,560
But Rocky, I'm I'm glad I have to start wrapping this.

2048
01:59:01,640 --> 01:59:03,760
I'm really glad that you were open to the back

2049
01:59:03,800 --> 01:59:06,000
and forth and that you allow me to use my

2050
01:59:06,119 --> 01:59:08,960
humor to mock you. I don't know what I would

2051
01:59:08,960 --> 01:59:14,279
do without it, Rocky, consider it my weakness, but I'm

2052
01:59:14,319 --> 01:59:16,720
glad you're open to it. So wherever you are located,

2053
01:59:17,439 --> 01:59:20,119
maybe you can contact other people in your area. If

2054
01:59:20,159 --> 01:59:23,399
you want to attend a divine liturgy, just as a viewer,

2055
01:59:23,439 --> 01:59:25,239
you'll have to do nothing. You're not going to be

2056
01:59:25,520 --> 01:59:30,039
asked to do anything but observe and experience. It may

2057
01:59:30,560 --> 01:59:35,800
again make it Antiochian or Greek Orthodox. And I would

2058
01:59:35,800 --> 01:59:37,399
love for you to call back in and just tell

2059
01:59:37,479 --> 01:59:40,239
us even your concerns or things you liked it didn't like.

2060
01:59:40,399 --> 01:59:42,239
I would love to have you back on after you

2061
01:59:42,720 --> 01:59:44,199
do that and tell us all about it.

2062
01:59:46,279 --> 01:59:50,960
Speaker 4: All right, all right, I'm gonna check it out, all right, Thanks.

2063
01:59:50,760 --> 01:59:53,960
Speaker 1: Rocky, Ivan. Do you have anything last to say? Uh

2064
01:59:54,239 --> 01:59:55,279
before I getend the stream?

2065
01:59:55,520 --> 01:59:59,039
Speaker 6: No, thank you for having me, Jimbob, It's always a pleasure. Congress.

2066
01:59:59,079 --> 02:00:02,000
Speaker 1: Every cleaner, I haven't, Yvonne, you look cleaner.

2067
02:00:02,920 --> 02:00:04,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've been working. I've been working a lot.

2068
02:00:05,000 --> 02:00:16,079
Speaker 1: Okay, good? Maybe yeah, I live Northern Idaho area, Northern Idaho. Okay,

2069
02:00:16,079 --> 02:00:19,319
there's definitely something there, there's something. Someone help out, Rocky.

2070
02:00:19,720 --> 02:00:22,199
I don't know if you have a channel, help out Rocky,

2071
02:00:22,720 --> 02:00:26,119
and maybe in the comments of this video once it posts, Rocky,

2072
02:00:26,159 --> 02:00:30,399
you can check the the comments and someone will direct you.

2073
02:00:30,560 --> 02:00:33,960
Northern Idaho shouldn't have a problem finding something.

2074
02:00:34,000 --> 02:00:34,319
Speaker 2: Okay.

2075
02:00:34,720 --> 02:00:36,399
Speaker 1: All right, With that said, I'm gonna end a stream.

2076
02:00:36,720 --> 02:00:39,239
Take you guys down. Thank you so much, both of you.

2077
02:00:39,399 --> 02:00:44,319
Appreciate you both, and until next time, audios, God bless

2078
02:00:44,359 --> 02:00:50,199
you all, and find another location. I don't actually I

2079
02:00:50,279 --> 02:00:53,680
can do a transfer from here. I think I think

2080
02:00:54,000 --> 02:01:00,079
I might as well. There's there's five hundred something of you.

2081
02:01:00,079 --> 02:01:02,880
Speaker 8: You.

2082
02:01:01,720 --> 02:01:07,880
Speaker 1: You have two minutes to reach that enormous, greedy goal

2083
02:01:08,439 --> 02:01:12,760
that I put up there a red super chat. It

2084
02:01:12,920 --> 02:01:14,720
just feels nice when there's a red one in there.

2085
02:01:14,720 --> 02:01:16,840
It just makes me feel good like the Mormons, you

2086
02:01:16,920 --> 02:01:18,640
know what I mean. It makes me feel Mormon for

2087
02:01:18,680 --> 02:01:26,840
a second. All right, who do we got here? Who

2088
02:01:26,840 --> 02:01:33,880
do we have here? Who's up? Who's up for a transfer?

2089
02:01:34,800 --> 02:01:39,600
Who we got here? W in the chat for Rocky

2090
02:01:40,279 --> 02:01:42,880
saying he'll go check it out. I mean that's more

2091
02:01:42,920 --> 02:01:46,880
than I can. That's better to me than anyone understanding

2092
02:01:47,000 --> 02:01:51,880
like energy essence. Honestly, that's better for me. That's better.

2093
02:01:56,840 --> 02:02:01,039
Let's see what we got, Donovan Sharp Thorpe TV. Come on, Polo,

2094
02:02:01,359 --> 02:02:05,520
let's go to apologetics. I need them to like me

2095
02:02:05,560 --> 02:02:11,800
a little bit. Okay, Apologetics Road Tour. I'm trying to

2096
02:02:11,840 --> 02:02:14,359
win them over a little bit. Here you go, Jason

2097
02:02:14,439 --> 02:02:18,000
casselsie I actually spelt as set his name correct. It

2098
02:02:18,079 --> 02:02:21,840
seems though the higher the super chat, the better I read.

2099
02:02:21,880 --> 02:02:24,800
Have you guys noticed that, Jason Cassell, thank you huge

2100
02:02:25,199 --> 02:02:27,800
super Chat. Here you go, getting better at the grift.

2101
02:02:27,800 --> 02:02:30,479
Thank you. I really appreciate that. Shout out to Andrew

2102
02:02:31,119 --> 02:02:34,239
for teaching the ways. I don't know why he does

2103
02:02:34,279 --> 02:02:39,479
a debate instructional video. Why is he doing a debate

2104
02:02:39,560 --> 02:02:44,159
instruction video? Isn't it obvious what the instructional video needs

2105
02:02:44,159 --> 02:02:48,000
to be? Yeah, you got a good point. There, you

2106
02:02:48,039 --> 02:02:51,960
got a good point, got a grift, got a grift,

2107
02:02:54,800 --> 02:02:59,800
and you're all heading over to that other channel. Be well,

2108
02:03:00,039 --> 02:03:04,439
m God bless y'all. See you. What is it Wednesday?

2109
02:03:05,279 --> 02:03:08,319
I guess I'll see you maybe Friday, something like that.

2110
02:03:10,840 --> 02:03:25,560
You know what I mean. Ye, let's do this, but.

2111
02:03:30,279 --> 02:03:48,399
Speaker 11: But boom boom boom boom boom.

2112
02:03:47,560 --> 02:03:50,039
Speaker 1: Boom gay m

2113
02:03:51,560 --> 02:04:04,439
Speaker 11: Gay boom mm gay oom mm hmm, bombs bums and