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<v Speaker 1>Get value you can't argue with at Tesco with their

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<v Speaker 1>online Tesco. Every little helps available at most stores. Prices

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<v Speaker 1>vary in express.

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<v Speaker 2>Ologites. Okay, just a few more days until we're back

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<v Speaker 2>in the swing of things and I'm back back with

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<v Speaker 2>all new, fresh episodes, starting with a brand new minisod

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<v Speaker 2>that will serve as a companion to this encore. But

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<v Speaker 2>I've been saving this episode to replay for about five years.

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<v Speaker 2>The time is right. The guest has changed my life

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<v Speaker 2>in so many ways, which is why we're doing that

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<v Speaker 2>follow up minisod with her with a bunch of updates

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<v Speaker 2>and even some tips on what's helped me Your Internet

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<v Speaker 2>Lady Dad the last few months. When processing the farewell

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<v Speaker 2>of your my dad. That'll be new and up in

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<v Speaker 2>a few days, but for now, settle in. This is

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<v Speaker 2>one of the best episodes we've ever done. It's time.

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<v Speaker 2>It's time to rehear it. This was the sixth episode

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<v Speaker 2>ever published back in twenty seventeen, when I was editing

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<v Speaker 2>it myself and using six dollars mic cables. And I've

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<v Speaker 2>learned some lessons. Okay, poor boy, Wow, Okay, here we go.

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<v Speaker 2>So from the moment I heard that this ology existed,

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<v Speaker 2>I knew I wanted to run as far away from

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<v Speaker 2>it as humanly possible, which then made it obvious that

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<v Speaker 2>I should dive into it sooner rather than later. So

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<v Speaker 2>in fact, when I sat down with this week's guest,

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<v Speaker 2>the first thing I said was that I'm a little

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<v Speaker 2>anxious about mortality. And she said she'd listen to other episodes,

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<v Speaker 2>and I picked up on that.

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<v Speaker 3>And I was like, oh, we have this locked and loaded.

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<v Speaker 2>She had my number. Now. I've wanted to do a

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<v Speaker 2>project about ologies for over a decade, and each time

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<v Speaker 2>I write out ologies, my computer autocorrect sed to eulogies

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<v Speaker 2>and I get a little shiver. I get a little scared.

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<v Speaker 2>And then the wind whispers at me, Hellie, one day

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<v Speaker 2>everyone you know and love will be eaten by a

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<v Speaker 2>fungus and rotting back into the earth. And so I

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<v Speaker 2>guess guess why I don't like it, even just the

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<v Speaker 2>word eulogies heby Geebi's okay, I can tell you though.

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<v Speaker 2>After recording this episode, I felt way better. It's weird,

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<v Speaker 2>so you're gonna have to listen to figure out how

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<v Speaker 2>and why that worked. It's probably gonna be a long

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<v Speaker 2>ass episode. I don't know. I haven't put it all

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<v Speaker 2>together yet. I'm just starting to edit it, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>gonna be worth it. Listen when you're like cleaning out

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<v Speaker 2>the shed, or I don't know, baiting an elephant when

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<v Speaker 2>you've got a lot to do. Or you can break

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<v Speaker 2>it up and listen to the last half after, but

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<v Speaker 2>listen the whole thing because it might seriously change the

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<v Speaker 2>way you live. First things first, panatology, etymology now the

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<v Speaker 2>word straight up Greek mythology thanatose just being the god

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<v Speaker 2>of death and dying. What a god? Apparently he was

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<v Speaker 2>referred to often but seen seldom, kind of like one

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<v Speaker 2>of those weird exes that everyone talks about but you

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<v Speaker 2>hope you never run into a brunch. So not only

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<v Speaker 2>was he the Bringer of mortality, but he also he

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<v Speaker 2>had super shitty siblings, like the whole family sucked. Among them,

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<v Speaker 2>one sibling the God of old age, another the God

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<v Speaker 2>of Retribution, the God of Suffering, the God of deception,

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<v Speaker 2>the God of doom, another sibling the God of strife,

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<v Speaker 2>and yet another one of his homies, the God of Blame.

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<v Speaker 3>So first off, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Come from a really big, large Catholic family and that

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<v Speaker 2>is still a lot of kids. Secondly, they sound awful.

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<v Speaker 2>So humans fear death much. I wanted to to grips

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<v Speaker 2>with it. A few months ago, I wound up doing

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<v Speaker 2>some light Instagram stocking of the hashtag Thanatologist, and up

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<v Speaker 2>popped the feed of this fresh faced, mohawked woman in Cincinnati,

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<v Speaker 2>and I followed her the case I ever wound up

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<v Speaker 2>in Cincinnati and I wanted to talk about death. Wouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>you know it? A few weeks before Halloween, I flew

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<v Speaker 2>in to shoot Innovation Nation, which is my other job,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was able to coerce this woman to meet

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<v Speaker 2>me in the hotel lobby of a Hampton End at

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<v Speaker 2>nine thirty pm on a Tuesday, where we chatted about

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<v Speaker 2>mortality and the best way to be buried, and what

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<v Speaker 2>people regret on their deathbeds, and why you shouldn't shit

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<v Speaker 2>talk anyone in a hospital, and why we're also scared.

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<v Speaker 2>But more importantly, we talked about just being alive. And

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<v Speaker 2>that's kind of where I was shocked, because this guest,

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<v Speaker 2>in just over an hour, stripped a lot of the

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<v Speaker 2>darkness from death and honestly helped me a shitload. I

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<v Speaker 2>felt like I should have paid her at the end

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<v Speaker 2>of it, and I didn't. Maybe I still should. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>we talk about disposition methods. Do you get buried or

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<v Speaker 2>do you fling yourself via catapult into a pile of

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<v Speaker 2>burning mattresses, whatever, But I didn't want to make this

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<v Speaker 2>all about fear and gore of death. You can get

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<v Speaker 2>that somewhere else. This episode is about death and dying

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<v Speaker 2>as much as it is about being alive. Now it's

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<v Speaker 2>getting released on Halloween, so I hope as you listen,

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<v Speaker 2>you remember that you are sitting on a subway full

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<v Speaker 2>of human skeletons, and you are a big bag of

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<v Speaker 2>blood and atoms in a skin suit, and more importantly,

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<v Speaker 2>you are alive. So please let your mind and heart

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<v Speaker 2>get blown away by phanatologist Cole and Perry. All right,

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<v Speaker 2>let's get right down to some real bare bones questions.

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<v Speaker 2>What is thanatology?

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<v Speaker 3>So, first of all, it's the study of death and dying.

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<v Speaker 3>And to me, death is the easy part. The dying

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<v Speaker 3>part is much more fascinating and rich and deep and

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<v Speaker 3>intense than the actual death part. There is also no

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<v Speaker 3>such thing as a job of like just being a panatologist, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>because I've looked, and nobody will pay me to just

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<v Speaker 3>walk around and know about death and dying. So what

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<v Speaker 3>I have found is thanatology is an enhancer. It is

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<v Speaker 3>something that enhances whatever you already are.

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<v Speaker 2>And that will help you with whatever your other job is,

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<v Speaker 2>like a school counselor who's also a panatologist something like that.

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<v Speaker 3>There's actually thousands of panatologists that are certified. I'm an

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<v Speaker 3>intense and like a very intense individual, so I had

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<v Speaker 3>to get not only one panatology certification, I had to

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<v Speaker 3>get two, which is all of them as far as

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<v Speaker 3>I know.

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<v Speaker 2>So one of her certifications is an integrative phanatology. But

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<v Speaker 2>now she is triple certified, possibly the only triple certified

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<v Speaker 2>phanatologist in the world, and She also started her own school,

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<v Speaker 2>the School of American Anatology. So more on all the

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<v Speaker 2>cool things she's been up to in the Fresh twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty two minisod that'll be dropping in a few days.

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<v Speaker 2>But one of her certifications is integrative thanatology, and I

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<v Speaker 2>did not know what that was.

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<v Speaker 3>We looked at in that program more of the like

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<v Speaker 3>esoteric stuff, funky stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>What would you count as funky death stuff?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, one of my most favorite pieces of that training

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<v Speaker 3>program was about the use of psilocybin and other hallucinogenics

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<v Speaker 3>at the end of life, because we're finding that those

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<v Speaker 3>can help your death. Like it can be great, it

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<v Speaker 3>can mitigate a lot of pain, but it can also

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<v Speaker 3>help with things like existential pain. Keyword existential pain, if

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<v Speaker 3>you don't know, is something like where usually it happens

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<v Speaker 3>on your deathbed. It's when you're confronting all this stuff

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<v Speaker 3>from your life, like am I a good person? What

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<v Speaker 3>is a good person? Or where do I go after

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<v Speaker 3>I die? Those can be actually very very painful things

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<v Speaker 3>to think about because they're all attached to all kinds

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<v Speaker 3>of junk from the life that we lived. Religious stuff,

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<v Speaker 3>think about how you were raised, religiously all the way

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<v Speaker 3>to your end of your life and all the baggage

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<v Speaker 3>you pick up with that stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>What happens if you have those thoughts all day, every day.

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<v Speaker 3>Welcome to my life. Yeah, I think about this stuff

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<v Speaker 3>a lot, and a lot of people do. One of

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<v Speaker 3>the problems I see socially in the United States is

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<v Speaker 3>that these big questions, they're not uncommon, but the problem

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<v Speaker 3>is we don't really have containers for them. It just

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<v Speaker 3>doesn't exist, and it's not necessarily appropriate party conversation or

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<v Speaker 3>water cooler conversation. So we don't have a place for

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<v Speaker 3>these big conversations to live, so we end up keeping

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<v Speaker 3>all that inside. And I think that that is sad

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<v Speaker 3>because talking about death it's one of the It's a

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<v Speaker 3>great easy way to be really intimate with somebody and

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<v Speaker 3>to really connect with someone on a deeper level. And

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<v Speaker 3>I find that when you talk about something like death

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<v Speaker 3>and dying, you leave feeling like way more connected to

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<v Speaker 3>the world, and it can actually be very positive and freeing.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, take me back a little bit to how you

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<v Speaker 2>grew up. When did you have an interest in death

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<v Speaker 2>and dying and when did you decide that you weren't

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<v Speaker 2>terrified of it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, interesting question. So growing up, I never had a

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<v Speaker 3>crazy death experience as a child, So I never had

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<v Speaker 3>anything crazy happen. But it is something that I've always

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<v Speaker 3>been immensely comfortable with and really interested in and really enjoyed.

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<v Speaker 3>An interesting girl. Anyway, several months ago, the mother of

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<v Speaker 3>my best friend in grade school mailed me a card

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<v Speaker 3>that I made for my best friend in third grade

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<v Speaker 3>when her dog died, and it was full of me

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<v Speaker 3>writing about the meaning of the loss and grief. And

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<v Speaker 3>it was really interesting to look back and see my

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<v Speaker 3>thoughts and stuff on death and dying as a child.

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<v Speaker 3>And I don't know where I picked that up, because

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't grow up in a funeral home. I didn't

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<v Speaker 3>grow up around around that at all. I just kind

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<v Speaker 3>of entered the earth with that sort of like software

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<v Speaker 3>expansion pack already in Do you think.

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<v Speaker 2>You carried it over from a past life? Science people?

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<v Speaker 2>I was kidding, Actually, what does science say about the afterlife? Well?

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<v Speaker 2>I read a whole article by lauded cosmologist and physics

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<v Speaker 2>professor Sean Carroll. He said, the laws of physics underlying

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<v Speaker 2>everyday life are completely understood and there's no way within

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<v Speaker 2>those laws to allow for the information stored in our

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<v Speaker 2>brains to persist after we die. And a fun note,

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<v Speaker 2>the week after this episode went up in twenty seventeen,

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<v Speaker 2>Doctor Carroll tweeted out his writings on it and added quote,

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<v Speaker 2>of course nothing is impossible or proven wrong. That's not

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<v Speaker 2>how science works. But some things are so unlikely we

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<v Speaker 2>shouldn't take them seriously. And it's obviously hotly debated, and

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<v Speaker 2>in my mind it is the most exciting mystery about

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<v Speaker 2>life itself. And more on historical thoughts on the soul

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<v Speaker 2>and the afterlife a bit later in this episode.

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<v Speaker 3>Anyway, looking into death and dying opens up thoughts and

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<v Speaker 3>ideas and just it makes you question so many of

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<v Speaker 3>the things that you think that you know. And it's

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<v Speaker 3>only when you're pushing yourself to these different areas where

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<v Speaker 3>things are uncomfortable, that you can really grow. And that's

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<v Speaker 3>the purpose of life, right is to grow, to just

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<v Speaker 3>continue to expand until you die, until you die. What

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<v Speaker 3>about what about your schooling?

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<v Speaker 2>At what point did you start steering your your academics

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<v Speaker 2>toward death and dying.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know. I've always kind of been into it.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, even in high school. I wrote about death

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<v Speaker 3>and dying a lot, and I had it in a

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<v Speaker 3>bunch of my papers, so I've always had it in there.

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<v Speaker 3>My purpose in life is to positively change the way

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<v Speaker 3>that we die in the United States in my lifetime.

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<v Speaker 3>That's my goal, just putting it out there. And I

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<v Speaker 3>have felt that way for a very very long time.

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<v Speaker 3>And there's no magic thing I can say that was like,

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<v Speaker 3>oh well, like I almost died and then this thing happened.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like, no, I've just this is what I'm supposed

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<v Speaker 3>to do, So I'm trying to do it. It's hard, though.

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<v Speaker 2>What does your job entail, Like what's a typical day

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<v Speaker 2>like or typical week like for you? Are you involved

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<v Speaker 2>with like a funeral planning or ebombing or speaking to

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<v Speaker 2>the public, Like what kind of stuff do you do?

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So I do not have a traditional nine to

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<v Speaker 3>five job. I own a small consulting firm called DOTH

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<v Speaker 3>and we specialize in death care. So one of the

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<v Speaker 3>ways that I'm change in the way that we die

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<v Speaker 3>is people like funeral home cemeteries, crematories, those businesses. I

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<v Speaker 3>know those businesses really well how they work, and they'll

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<v Speaker 3>hire my company to help make them better.

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<v Speaker 2>She also travels all over the country giving keynote speeches

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<v Speaker 2>on death and grief and dying, and in the five

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<v Speaker 2>years since this first aired, she opened the School of

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<v Speaker 2>American Danatology. She's also in the new Netflix series The

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<v Speaker 2>Future of She's in the episode Life After Death. She's

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<v Speaker 2>so good in it. We're going to go over more

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<v Speaker 2>updates in the upcoming minutisote. Oh and her hair was

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<v Speaker 2>purple when we recorded this, but her signature elegant pompadour

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<v Speaker 2>with the shaved sides and back is now shades of

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<v Speaker 2>ochre and green. I called it a mohawk in twenty seventeen,

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<v Speaker 2>but that's not really accurate. And also that term in

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<v Speaker 2>the style is considered reserved for indigenous sculptures, So forgive

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<v Speaker 2>my twenty seventeen misnomer. But yes, she has awesome hair.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's get back to death. Are you afraid of dying

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<v Speaker 2>or are you excited about it to see what happens?

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<v Speaker 3>So okay, let's talk about death and dying, right. So death?

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<v Speaker 3>Death is like just when you die, like you're dud,

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<v Speaker 3>the light switches off. The dying process leading up to

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<v Speaker 3>the death. That is the thing that I am most

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<v Speaker 3>concerned with and the thing that tends to be cause

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<v Speaker 3>the most issues for people, because you could be dying

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<v Speaker 3>for months or years, and then there's this whole question

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<v Speaker 3>about when do you start dying. I mean, some would

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<v Speaker 3>argue you start dying at birth technically right, but then

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<v Speaker 3>you get into actively dying, which is when your body

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<v Speaker 3>is in the shutdown process, which there is kind of

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<v Speaker 3>an order of things that happen.

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<v Speaker 2>First, let's get all up in death's business and define it.

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<v Speaker 2>Death is the cessation of all vital functions of the body,

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<v Speaker 2>including the heartbeat, brain activity including the brain stem, and breathing.

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<v Speaker 2>Some researchers say that there is an evidence to suggest

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<v Speaker 2>that there's a burst of brain energy as someone dies.

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<v Speaker 2>Is reading this article about near death experiences, and about

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<v Speaker 2>eighteen percent of people who had them reported being able

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<v Speaker 2>to recall some portion of what happened when they were

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<v Speaker 2>clinically dead. So, according to some researchers, the conditions that

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<v Speaker 2>make you have near death experiences, like low oxygen and

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<v Speaker 2>low blood flow and low blood sugar, those can kill

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<v Speaker 2>your brain cells and then the brain just doesn't know

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<v Speaker 2>what to do. It responds by having this flood of

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<v Speaker 2>chemicals and it's apparently very similar to the drug ketamine,

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<v Speaker 2>and that is what they think produces out of body

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<v Speaker 2>sensations and hallucinations and all the cool shit that happens

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<v Speaker 2>when you die. This info was from an article written

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<v Speaker 2>by author and science journalist Jennifer Willett. Now, remember that

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<v Speaker 2>physicist Sean Carroll I mentioned earlier. They're married. That is

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of good brains in one relationship. I went

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<v Speaker 2>ahead and emailed them both and I said, Hey, do

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<v Speaker 2>you guys talk about cool stuff like this over dinner

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<v Speaker 2>while you're grocery shopping. Jennifer wrote me back and said,

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<v Speaker 2>we actually do talk about things like this, but not always.

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<v Speaker 2>Other times we talk about our kiddies. Yeah, what happens?

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So what happens when you're actively dying from sort

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<v Speaker 3>of a medical viewpoint, your body shuts down. It has

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<v Speaker 3>a process and there's kind of an order that it follows,

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<v Speaker 3>just like when you're born. Birth and death are actually

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<v Speaker 3>very very similar. And a lot of people ask me like, oh,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm so afraid to die, like is it going to hurt?

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<v Speaker 3>And I always ask I'm like, you know, I haven't died,

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<v Speaker 3>so I can't tell you. But I'll ask do you

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<v Speaker 3>remember your birth? Did it hurt when you were born?

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<v Speaker 3>They'll be like, well, no, no. The word on the

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<v Speaker 3>street is it's pretty similar. So the last sense that remains,

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<v Speaker 3>because your senses will shut down, Oh they go hearing,

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<v Speaker 3>they go in order. They don't necessarily go in order.

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<v Speaker 3>There are people who would argue probably that they do.

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<v Speaker 3>But I'm also a hospice volunteer. I've been with people

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<v Speaker 3>as they're dying, and everybody's death is different. As you're

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<v Speaker 3>actively dying, hearing tends to be the last sense that

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<v Speaker 3>is there. So like, imagine that you're the dying person.

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<v Speaker 3>You can't see, you can't smell, you can't taste, and

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<v Speaker 3>your sense of feeling is kind of like, okay, have

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<v Speaker 3>you ever gone to the dentist and they put that

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<v Speaker 3>lead thing over top of you and you get an

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<v Speaker 3>X ray? Like, imagine that that is the feeling that

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<v Speaker 3>you have. That's kind of a good way to describe

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<v Speaker 3>when you start to lose your sense of feeling. So

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<v Speaker 3>everything's dark, you can't talk, but all you can do

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<v Speaker 3>is here. That's kind of where you go, plus your

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<v Speaker 3>foggy That's a good way that I can kind of

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<v Speaker 3>describe the shutdown process, which not everybody has that. That's

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<v Speaker 3>a disclaimer, but that's kind of how it kind of

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<v Speaker 3>can go.

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<v Speaker 2>So you should never shit talk to someone while they're

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<v Speaker 2>on their deathbed.

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<v Speaker 3>That is right, because they can hear day, Yes, they can, yep.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's why one of the things that if you're

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<v Speaker 3>ever with someone who's dying, you need to always talk

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<v Speaker 3>to them and say what you're doing. Their body may

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<v Speaker 3>be reacting in a way that makes you think that

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<v Speaker 3>they're long gone, but they may not be, because a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of times when you're dying, you lose control, but

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<v Speaker 3>you're still hearing, but we know that the hearing is there.

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<v Speaker 3>Another sign of active death is it's often called the

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<v Speaker 3>death rattle, but it has to do with usually when

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<v Speaker 3>you're actively dying, your mouth is open and you're breathing

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<v Speaker 3>out of your mouth and it's like it's sort of congestion.

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<v Speaker 3>And that can be really scary for people to hear

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<v Speaker 3>who are not dying, because it's like, oh, this has

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<v Speaker 3>getting real, but it's not something that the dying person

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<v Speaker 3>necessarily feels or is aware of, because your remember, they're

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<v Speaker 3>kind of shutting down.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like that would be scary to hear even

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<v Speaker 2>if you were another dying person, they'd be scared to

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<v Speaker 2>hear if you're not dying, and as well if you

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<v Speaker 2>are happen to be dying next to them, like are

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<v Speaker 2>you going? Am I going?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>Who's going first?

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<v Speaker 3>Is this okay?

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<v Speaker 2>Is a lot of the work you focus on in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of dying, usually the death is a result of

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<v Speaker 2>an illness or what about traumatic deaths or more sudden perishing.

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<v Speaker 3>So in my work, so I am not I'm not

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<v Speaker 3>a counselor, I'm not like a medical professional, but I

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<v Speaker 3>do have the opportunity to be brought into or involved

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<v Speaker 3>with specific death situations and scenarios. Man, humans can die

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<v Speaker 3>in all kinds of ways. Statistically, my Brosol number is

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<v Speaker 3>twenty percent of all people will die in an ICU,

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<v Speaker 3>an intensive care unit. Really, yes, but ninety percent of

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<v Speaker 3>Americans want to die at home, So keep that in mind.

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<v Speaker 3>You want hospice. It is good, it is next level care.

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<v Speaker 3>But the problem in the United States is we don't

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<v Speaker 3>deal with death. We don't like to think about it

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<v Speaker 3>or talk about it. So we will do these last

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<v Speaker 3>ditch efforts like things that put you in an intensive

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<v Speaker 3>care unit, when we know the outcomes, you're going to

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<v Speaker 3>die from this, when you really should have just gotten

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<v Speaker 3>on hospice and just wrote out the last few months

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<v Speaker 3>really comfortably, not in pain, and not with tubes and

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<v Speaker 3>all kinds of junk coming out of your.

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<v Speaker 2>Bod twenty twenty two. Alley Here, as a person who

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<v Speaker 2>has just spent the last several months bedside with someone

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<v Speaker 2>in hospice at home who died peacefully during his afternoon snooze,

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<v Speaker 2>I can confirm it is filled with so much quality

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<v Speaker 2>time and care. So if you die at home in

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<v Speaker 2>hospice with friends or family caring for you, what a

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<v Speaker 2>lovely way to say farewell. But what if you're not lucky,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're wringing your hands convinced that you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>be eaten by a shark. Let's look at statistically, what

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<v Speaker 2>causes deaths at least in the United States. Number one

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<v Speaker 2>heart disease, two, cancer, three respiratory disease. Four is accidents.

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<v Speaker 2>And that kind of threw me off because I thought

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<v Speaker 2>it would be another illness, but who knew. Essentially, the

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<v Speaker 2>fourth biggest threat to each of us is just gravity

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<v Speaker 2>in a nutshell, I mean, brush up on physics. Make

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<v Speaker 2>sure you wear a bike helmet. Maybe don't climb the

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<v Speaker 2>roof on a snowy day trying to hang like an

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<v Speaker 2>illuminated candy cane or something. It's not worth it. Also

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty two update, things have changed a little and

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<v Speaker 2>the third leading cause of death COVID, according to the

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<v Speaker 2>Journal of the American Medical Association. So there is that.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's most likely probably going to be what you

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<v Speaker 3>die of.

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<v Speaker 2>So not of embarrassment like I've oftentimes thought would be

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<v Speaker 2>the cause of my death.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, and from all my work with death and dying

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<v Speaker 3>and seeing all kinds of stuff over the years, the

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<v Speaker 3>thing that makes life life, that makes it special, that

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<v Speaker 3>makes it meaningful, is the fact that we die. If

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<v Speaker 3>we didn't die, Like, the whole reason it means anything

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<v Speaker 3>is because it ends. And so it's difficult for me

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<v Speaker 3>to I mean, that's awesome because for science we need

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<v Speaker 3>to understand what makes us die, what makes us live.

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<v Speaker 3>But death is very important and it's critical, and it's

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<v Speaker 3>an important life cycle event that happens to all of us,

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<v Speaker 3>and it is what makes life meaningful.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess if you lived at Disneyland, you wouldn't be

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<v Speaker 2>as excited about going to Disneyland, you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right.

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<v Speaker 2>Life is kind of like a short term stint at

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<v Speaker 2>a theme park. You know it's going to end, so

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<v Speaker 2>you better enjoy it. I suppose, yes, But you personally,

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<v Speaker 2>how is your work and your focus on death and

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<v Speaker 2>mortality changed the choices that you make on.

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<v Speaker 3>A day to day basis just being exposed and around

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<v Speaker 3>even just stories and things like that. I am so

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<v Speaker 3>grateful for my life day to day, but it's maybe

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<v Speaker 3>hyper aware that it ends, because I've seen people on

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<v Speaker 3>their deathbed who are facing a lot of regrets about

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<v Speaker 3>the stuff they didn't do. Not the stuff they did.

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<v Speaker 3>It's all the stuff they didn't do, really like what

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<v Speaker 3>just businesses that they didn't start, or girls they didn't

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<v Speaker 3>chase after, or the kids that they didn't have, or

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<v Speaker 3>the risks that they didn't take. It's the stuff that

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<v Speaker 3>you didn't do right. And sometimes it's more painful to

418
00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:12.000
<v Speaker 3>see someone who's dying grappling with those questions than it

419
00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:14.400
<v Speaker 3>is to see someone who's dying in physical pain.

420
00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:20.000
<v Speaker 2>To be honest, the anguish emotionally is worse than the pain.

421
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:24.079
<v Speaker 3>Yes, wow, deep, we're getting heavy that I tend to

422
00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:25.160
<v Speaker 3>bring that with me wherever I go.

423
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:26.799
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is about dead and dying. I think

424
00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:30.880
<v Speaker 2>about this stuff like all day every day. I'm I

425
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:34.000
<v Speaker 2>used to have nightmares about graveyards. I had this recurring

426
00:23:34.079 --> 00:23:37.359
<v Speaker 2>nightmare that I was walking through a graveyard and and

427
00:23:37.519 --> 00:23:41.920
<v Speaker 2>coffins were overturned. And I had a fear of graveyards

428
00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:43.799
<v Speaker 2>where I would get I would start panicking when I

429
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:46.000
<v Speaker 2>was a kid just driving past them. So I've always

430
00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:50.519
<v Speaker 2>been really really spooked by by dead bodies, by morgues,

431
00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:54.640
<v Speaker 2>by cemeteries. And I also grew up Catholic, so we

432
00:23:54.680 --> 00:23:56.920
<v Speaker 2>had open castete funerals, so they were like, go kiss

433
00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:59.640
<v Speaker 2>your dead great grandma, and you're like, I'm eight, we know,

434
00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:04.440
<v Speaker 2>but here we go. So I mean, do you find

435
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:08.000
<v Speaker 2>that that death is something people can accept over time

436
00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:09.519
<v Speaker 2>or are there people who can deal with it and

437
00:24:09.559 --> 00:24:10.039
<v Speaker 2>people who.

438
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:16.599
<v Speaker 3>Can They're well that multifaceted look at that, Like, so okay,

439
00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:20.200
<v Speaker 3>people who tend to be more religious, statistically, by some

440
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:25.400
<v Speaker 3>studies also tend to be more afraid of dying. Why interesting, right, Well,

441
00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:27.880
<v Speaker 3>because and it's interesting because like my mom's side is Catholic,

442
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:30.440
<v Speaker 3>and I went to Catholic school and there was always

443
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:33.000
<v Speaker 3>this talk of like when you die, you are you

444
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:34.559
<v Speaker 3>going to go up or down? I mean, I feel

445
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:36.559
<v Speaker 3>like we had to bring this up every single day.

446
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:39.240
<v Speaker 3>So I feel like is a growing up Catholic that

447
00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:42.720
<v Speaker 3>was always talked about, but we don't. It was never

448
00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:45.559
<v Speaker 3>talked about in any depth beyond that. It was just

449
00:24:45.640 --> 00:24:48.359
<v Speaker 3>like you're going to be judged if you're good or

450
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:48.799
<v Speaker 3>you're bad.

451
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:51.960
<v Speaker 2>It was like Santa almost like someone's going to decide

452
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:53.319
<v Speaker 2>if you're on the good list or bad list, and

453
00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:54.960
<v Speaker 2>you might go to an after party in the sky

454
00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:58.519
<v Speaker 2>or you might have hell fire forever, yes, which you're like,

455
00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:01.960
<v Speaker 2>death is terrifying because you're like, what happens if, like

456
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:04.720
<v Speaker 2>I steal someone's parking space and then I get hit

457
00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:07.680
<v Speaker 2>by a bus five minutes later? Where am I going? Yes, yep.

458
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:10.720
<v Speaker 3>I remember as a kid like being anxious about like, oh,

459
00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:12.839
<v Speaker 3>I like took a piece of paper from my best

460
00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:14.519
<v Speaker 3>friend Becky, and now I'm going to go to hell

461
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:17.480
<v Speaker 3>I'm pretty sure, like and just being really like conserve

462
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:19.640
<v Speaker 3>of that anyway at the end of life, depending on

463
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:23.759
<v Speaker 3>how someone was raised, just religious values or just cultural

464
00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:27.400
<v Speaker 3>values that really goes a long way and impacting how

465
00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:30.519
<v Speaker 3>well or not well, they're able to talk about or

466
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:35.160
<v Speaker 3>deal with death and dying. I have Okay, this is

467
00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:37.759
<v Speaker 3>if you are listening to this and you know someone

468
00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.880
<v Speaker 3>in your family who is avoiding death or who needs

469
00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:42.400
<v Speaker 3>to talk about or you need to talk about it

470
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:46.160
<v Speaker 3>with them. Talking about death is like trying to approach

471
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:49.519
<v Speaker 3>a deer in the woods. You cannot go directly at

472
00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:51.960
<v Speaker 3>a deer because it will run away. But if you

473
00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:54.519
<v Speaker 3>go around the side and curve around some trees and

474
00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:57.079
<v Speaker 3>come up and be like, hey, you know, then you

475
00:25:57.119 --> 00:25:59.000
<v Speaker 3>can get close to it, and then you might be

476
00:25:59.079 --> 00:26:02.480
<v Speaker 3>able to actually touch. So talking about death usually directly

477
00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:05.720
<v Speaker 3>doesn't work well for I'd say sometimes most people, but

478
00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:08.599
<v Speaker 3>coming at it from the side, you know, and kind

479
00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:11.880
<v Speaker 3>of easing around it, that tends to be much more

480
00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:14.039
<v Speaker 3>effective in getting there.

481
00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:18.599
<v Speaker 2>Are you at what age should people have a will?

482
00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Because I'm realizing I'm sitting here, We're sitting in a

483
00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:24.039
<v Speaker 2>hotel conference room in Cincinnati, and I'm like, I don't

484
00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:26.440
<v Speaker 2>have a will. I don't have a do I I

485
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:30.079
<v Speaker 2>don't know what a testament is of? Okay, will versus

486
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:33.880
<v Speaker 2>testament samesias roughly the same thing. Now. They started about

487
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:35.920
<v Speaker 2>sixty nine dollars if you want to get them through

488
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:39.519
<v Speaker 2>legal Zoom, who is not sponsoring this podcast, so you're

489
00:26:39.559 --> 00:26:42.839
<v Speaker 2>welcome legal Zoom. There's also a book and it's called

490
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:47.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm Dead Now What? And it is a planner you

491
00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:49.920
<v Speaker 2>can put like your passwords, what to do with your pets,

492
00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:51.960
<v Speaker 2>what you want them to do with your body, et

493
00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:55.240
<v Speaker 2>cetera in it. I look this up on Amazon and

494
00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:58.480
<v Speaker 2>there are a few reviews that are like helpful book,

495
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:03.279
<v Speaker 2>not feeling the title. And there's a competing book and

496
00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:08.279
<v Speaker 2>I looked at it, same table of contents, verbatim, and

497
00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:12.880
<v Speaker 2>it's published by the same company. But there's I'm Dead

498
00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:15.319
<v Speaker 2>Now What. And then they make an identical book called

499
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:20.359
<v Speaker 2>a Peace of Mind Planner. Know your demo, people, know

500
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:23.799
<v Speaker 2>your brand. No wills. Did they all have to be notarized?

501
00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:26.960
<v Speaker 2>I thought so, but not necessarily. I thought you had

502
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:28.680
<v Speaker 2>to sign them in blood and a priest had to

503
00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:30.359
<v Speaker 2>put like a special stamp on them.

504
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:30.920
<v Speaker 3>Not so.

505
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:34.240
<v Speaker 2>It does depend on your state, so check first. There

506
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:37.720
<v Speaker 2>are also a few different flavors of wills, and their

507
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:42.319
<v Speaker 2>names sound like race horses or they sound like smoothies

508
00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:47.759
<v Speaker 2>at like a really obnoxious juicery. There's a holographic will

509
00:27:48.200 --> 00:27:52.160
<v Speaker 2>This just means it's in your handwriting. That's convenient. There's

510
00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:56.799
<v Speaker 2>mystic will, which is sealed until your demise, a will

511
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.680
<v Speaker 2>in solemn form that's a legit one that's signed by

512
00:27:59.720 --> 00:28:02.279
<v Speaker 2>you and some witnesses. And then there's a living will,

513
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:06.359
<v Speaker 2>and that is a directive for your medical care if

514
00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:08.720
<v Speaker 2>some shit goes down, pretty much like when to pull

515
00:28:08.759 --> 00:28:11.279
<v Speaker 2>the plug. That's totally different than it will living will,

516
00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:15.279
<v Speaker 2>totally different thing. Now, of course Cole is covered on

517
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:16.480
<v Speaker 2>this front, not truly.

518
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:19.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, I mean I'm sitting here in a hotel

519
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:22.079
<v Speaker 3>being interviewed about my expertise and death is dying and

520
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:23.079
<v Speaker 3>I don't have a will.

521
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:23.720
<v Speaker 1>Why don't you?

522
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:26.759
<v Speaker 3>I just said, my god, I'm just too busy working

523
00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:29.400
<v Speaker 3>on deatha dying to do my own will. I mean,

524
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:32.559
<v Speaker 3>here's the deal. Yes, you should have one. I mean,

525
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:35.559
<v Speaker 3>when you're an adult, you should have you should have something.

526
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:38.920
<v Speaker 3>You should have one. You should have something. I did

527
00:28:39.319 --> 00:28:42.640
<v Speaker 3>write up a sheet about like some things like if

528
00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:45.720
<v Speaker 3>I died and my husband died, who would take my beagles?

529
00:28:46.039 --> 00:28:47.559
<v Speaker 3>Like who I would want them to go to? And

530
00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:49.799
<v Speaker 3>it's like in an email, So you know, having that's

531
00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:52.359
<v Speaker 3>better than nothing. But the problem is when we die.

532
00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:55.599
<v Speaker 3>A lot of times wills are these like notes usually

533
00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:58.759
<v Speaker 3>aren't found until after the funeral because when someone dies

534
00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:00.759
<v Speaker 3>then it's like all hands on deck to get the

535
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:04.480
<v Speaker 3>person you know buried or cremate or whatever, and that

536
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:05.519
<v Speaker 3>stuff isn't looked at.

537
00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:06.279
<v Speaker 2>Till after the fact.

538
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:09.880
<v Speaker 3>Also, FYI, what you want to happen with your funeral?

539
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:12.720
<v Speaker 3>A lot of times if you put it in your will,

540
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:18.000
<v Speaker 3>depending on state law, it's not like valid or enforceable.

541
00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:19.519
<v Speaker 2>So you have to sell your loved ones, like shoot

542
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:22.279
<v Speaker 2>me out of a cannon or plant my ashes in

543
00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:23.400
<v Speaker 2>a pumpkin patch or something.

544
00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:26.279
<v Speaker 3>Yes, your best bet is to tell the people who

545
00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:30.000
<v Speaker 3>will be the ones making decisions about what happens to you,

546
00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:32.279
<v Speaker 3>like while you're alive, and be real clear about it.

547
00:29:32.519 --> 00:29:33.839
<v Speaker 2>What do you want to have happened to you when

548
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:34.200
<v Speaker 2>you die?

549
00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:38.200
<v Speaker 3>So I actually at this point because it's changed over

550
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:40.359
<v Speaker 3>the last ten years, because I see everything death and

551
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:43.160
<v Speaker 3>dying all the time. Right now, I would like to

552
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:46.759
<v Speaker 3>be buried in a sort of green cemetery and then

553
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.640
<v Speaker 3>just wrapped in a shroud. It's called a shroud. It's

554
00:29:49.640 --> 00:29:52.880
<v Speaker 3>like not actually like a full on casket or coffin

555
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:56.359
<v Speaker 3>you're kind of wrapped in fabric like swaddled. It's like

556
00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:57.480
<v Speaker 3>a little death swaddle.

557
00:29:57.519 --> 00:29:59.839
<v Speaker 2>I would say, it's like a like a death pejme.

558
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:03.640
<v Speaker 3>Yes, mine will be stylish. It might be purple.

559
00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:11.000
<v Speaker 2>So, and so the ways of being disposed of, Let's say,

560
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:15.200
<v Speaker 2>I hear you can get planted underneath some tree roots.

561
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:20.000
<v Speaker 2>You can get cremated, like what is the best for

562
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:20.640
<v Speaker 2>the planet.

563
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:26.319
<v Speaker 3>Yes, okay, So disposition method is the lingo for what

564
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:28.920
<v Speaker 3>you do with your dead body, just in case you

565
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:31.000
<v Speaker 3>want to know about that. So the two most common

566
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:34.559
<v Speaker 3>disposition methods in the United States are burial or cremation,

567
00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:38.799
<v Speaker 3>and about one in every two bodies in the United

568
00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:41.559
<v Speaker 3>States is cremated. Now it was not.

569
00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:43.519
<v Speaker 2>Like that half half. Yeah.

570
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:47.000
<v Speaker 3>Wow, cremation just went over the fifty percent mark. Very

571
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:47.680
<v Speaker 3>exciting time.

572
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:49.920
<v Speaker 2>Do you have like a you have a scoreboard in

573
00:30:49.960 --> 00:30:50.359
<v Speaker 2>your office?

574
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:54.559
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yep, yep, I got a ticker. So, and what's

575
00:30:54.599 --> 00:30:57.119
<v Speaker 3>interesting is like state by state it really varies. So

576
00:30:57.200 --> 00:30:59.440
<v Speaker 3>like Kentucky, which is where I live, where are I

577
00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:02.160
<v Speaker 3>think a bottom five state for our cremation rate, Like

578
00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:04.319
<v Speaker 3>we're a burial state. But if you go out to

579
00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:08.839
<v Speaker 3>like Nevada or Arizona, like Washington State, I think, is

580
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:13.200
<v Speaker 3>like eighty ninety percent cremation rate. Really yeah, so you

581
00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:14.799
<v Speaker 3>can go all over the country and what you do

582
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:17.039
<v Speaker 3>with your body differs significantly.

583
00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:21.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, aside to this aside, I'm sorry for a side seption,

584
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:24.799
<v Speaker 2>but SINCEUS was recorded, Cole no longer lives in Kentucky.

585
00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:26.559
<v Speaker 2>More on that in a bit. I just looked up

586
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:29.519
<v Speaker 2>a map of the United States, colored state by state

587
00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:33.559
<v Speaker 2>according to the popularity of cremation. Then I looked up

588
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:36.960
<v Speaker 2>red states versus blue states, and they are almost the

589
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:37.640
<v Speaker 2>same map.

590
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:40.759
<v Speaker 3>So this is the two main There's also something called

591
00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:44.559
<v Speaker 3>alkaline hydrolysis, which is legal I believe in thirteen states

592
00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:49.480
<v Speaker 3>now only, and it's like your body plus water plus lie,

593
00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:52.480
<v Speaker 3>which LIE is also I learned how to make soap

594
00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:55.480
<v Speaker 3>this past year, and so you use LYE in soap making,

595
00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:59.039
<v Speaker 3>just like you do when you want to alkaline hydraullyze yourself.

596
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:02.799
<v Speaker 3>So at the end of sometimes they'll call it like

597
00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:06.160
<v Speaker 3>liquid cremation or water cremation. That's just kind of the

598
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:08.839
<v Speaker 3>word they use. But at the end of that process,

599
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:12.119
<v Speaker 3>you know how when you're cremated, cremated remains are left. Yeah,

600
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:15.599
<v Speaker 3>at the end of alkaline hydrolysis. It's basically the same

601
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:19.160
<v Speaker 3>end product, except your there's not fire that does it

602
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:22.440
<v Speaker 3>to you. It's water technically, or this chemical reaction.

603
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:24.400
<v Speaker 2>But is it Is it moist?

604
00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:29.400
<v Speaker 3>No, it's dry? Okay, all the liquid and stuff go

605
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:30.480
<v Speaker 3>all right to the dream.

606
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:33.759
<v Speaker 2>You imagine if someone just had a bucket of Grandpa

607
00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:35.440
<v Speaker 2>and you're like, thank you, it's moist.

608
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:37.200
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

609
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:39.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna give you the quick rundown on how alkaline

610
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:43.000
<v Speaker 2>hydrolysis works. I'm gonna just tell you, like it's a recipe, Okay.

611
00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:47.039
<v Speaker 2>You take one human body, not living, and you add

612
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:50.640
<v Speaker 2>ninety two gallons of water four gallons of lye. Essentially,

613
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.680
<v Speaker 2>you put it into a big chamber preheated to around

614
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:57.680
<v Speaker 2>three hundred and fifty three hundred and sixty degrees, let

615
00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:01.759
<v Speaker 2>simmer under pressure for four hours, and then you just

616
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:06.000
<v Speaker 2>drain off the excess, which is kind of the texture

617
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:09.240
<v Speaker 2>of motor oil, and then what's left are some well

618
00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:13.759
<v Speaker 2>cooked bones. It's easy. Is this kind of like what

619
00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:17.400
<v Speaker 2>happened in the in the very beginning of Breaking Bad?

620
00:33:18.039 --> 00:33:19.759
<v Speaker 2>Didn't they try to dispose of a body in a

621
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:20.640
<v Speaker 2>bathtub that way?

622
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:25.799
<v Speaker 3>You see hydrofluoric acid won't eat through plastic. It will, however,

623
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:29.960
<v Speaker 3>dissolve metal, rock, glass, ceramic.

624
00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:35.119
<v Speaker 2>So there's that. That was an acid bath. This is

625
00:33:35.359 --> 00:33:42.960
<v Speaker 2>an alkaline bath. Also, don't diy either of these ever. Okay, Now,

626
00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:48.920
<v Speaker 2>some other disposition methods are buried at sea. There's also promestion,

627
00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:53.319
<v Speaker 2>which is a technique invented by the Swedish biologist. This

628
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:57.119
<v Speaker 2>process she invented. It's where your freeze dried kind of

629
00:33:57.160 --> 00:34:00.319
<v Speaker 2>like astronaut ice cream, and then you are vibrated into

630
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:03.920
<v Speaker 2>dust and it's said to be pretty eco friendly. You

631
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:06.119
<v Speaker 2>can also be a tree pod. This is a thing

632
00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:10.320
<v Speaker 2>invented in Italy. It's called caps Mundi and it means

633
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:15.000
<v Speaker 2>world box and it looks like a huge dusty easter egg.

634
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:17.639
<v Speaker 2>And they pose your body in the fetal position. Then

635
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:19.519
<v Speaker 2>they pop you in the ground and they plant a

636
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:23.079
<v Speaker 2>tree of your choosing as long as it's indigenous to

637
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:26.360
<v Speaker 2>the region on top of you, and then the tree

638
00:34:26.440 --> 00:34:28.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of slowly eats you and you become the tree.

639
00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:33.840
<v Speaker 2>Side note not legal in Italy yet. There's also Viking funerals.

640
00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:35.360
<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of people want to go out

641
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:37.119
<v Speaker 2>this way. This is where you set a boat on

642
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:40.039
<v Speaker 2>fire with flaming arrows, and I went down a rabbit

643
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:44.000
<v Speaker 2>hole watching mortician and founder of the Death Positive movement,

644
00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:47.639
<v Speaker 2>Caitlin dodi'es. She's got a YouTube channel called Ask Mortician,

645
00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:50.400
<v Speaker 2>very good, and I wanted to figure out if Viking

646
00:34:50.440 --> 00:34:53.599
<v Speaker 2>funerals were legal. Yeah, that's a big no on that.

647
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:58.639
<v Speaker 2>They are not only illegal, but they're also ineffective. They're

648
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:01.199
<v Speaker 2>not hot enough for long enough, so you would be

649
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:06.000
<v Speaker 2>kind of like a floating burnt chicken, which is super bummer. Now,

650
00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:09.400
<v Speaker 2>sky burial, this is where zat fam. I did not

651
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:13.119
<v Speaker 2>know what this process was called, so I googled funeral

652
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:18.159
<v Speaker 2>Mongolia eaten by birds and zip zob zoom right to

653
00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:22.119
<v Speaker 2>the wiki for sky burial. Now, in Tibet and Inner Mongolia,

654
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:24.840
<v Speaker 2>the ground is too rocky to dig you a hole,

655
00:35:25.239 --> 00:35:28.119
<v Speaker 2>so they feed you to carry and eaters. Okay, I'm

656
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:35.599
<v Speaker 2>looking at this right now. Okay, well, all right, just

657
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:39.440
<v Speaker 2>pulled up some images. All right, Okay. I thought that

658
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:43.039
<v Speaker 2>maybe this would be like a lonely mountaintop situation with

659
00:35:43.159 --> 00:35:47.280
<v Speaker 2>maybe birds taking a nibble here and there, but the

660
00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:51.159
<v Speaker 2>birds are pretty hip to the process. I don't want

661
00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:52.800
<v Speaker 2>to go into doo much detail. I'm just going to

662
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:57.719
<v Speaker 2>ask that you envision this instead. This is this is

663
00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:04.760
<v Speaker 2>a parallel. So picture a European town square, cobblestone, cloudy day,

664
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:09.360
<v Speaker 2>a large flock of pigeons bustles nearby, and onto the

665
00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:16.639
<v Speaker 2>stone you lay one steaming hot aromatic everything bagel. Picture

666
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:19.119
<v Speaker 2>what would happen. Now, That is the type of eager

667
00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:23.079
<v Speaker 2>consumption involved with a sky burial where your body is

668
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:26.320
<v Speaker 2>fed to vultures. Now, if your goal in life was

669
00:36:26.519 --> 00:36:32.719
<v Speaker 2>ultimately just to be wanted, then then sky burial is clutch. Folks,

670
00:36:33.519 --> 00:36:37.480
<v Speaker 2>I regret learning as much about that as I just did.

671
00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:41.039
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes when I get weird and sad about death, I

672
00:36:41.079 --> 00:36:44.800
<v Speaker 2>think it's cool that all of our molecules are just recycled. Yep.

673
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:48.519
<v Speaker 2>And hopefully there's part of me that used to be

674
00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:52.280
<v Speaker 2>a frog. And it would be cool if part of

675
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:55.119
<v Speaker 2>my body now went on to become somehow a frog.

676
00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:56.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why a frog.

677
00:36:56.880 --> 00:37:00.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, But like I guess, if you eat.

678
00:36:59.880 --> 00:37:01.960
<v Speaker 2>A than part of your body becomes a frog. But

679
00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:06.000
<v Speaker 2>the idea, or rather part of a frog becomes your body.

680
00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:09.280
<v Speaker 2>You know what I'm saying. I'm not on psilocybin, but

681
00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:15.320
<v Speaker 2>becoming another living animal sounds like less harsh for some reason.

682
00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:17.239
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yes, yes.

683
00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:19.360
<v Speaker 2>You.

684
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:22.199
<v Speaker 3>What makes you you, all of your parts and pieces,

685
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:26.920
<v Speaker 3>has been around long before you were in you, and

686
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:29.880
<v Speaker 3>you will continue to be around in different forms. I

687
00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:31.960
<v Speaker 3>believe that. I mean, that's just science, right.

688
00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:35.360
<v Speaker 2>The you that is sitting there knitting while listening to this,

689
00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:38.480
<v Speaker 2>or driving, or putting a stamp on a birthday card

690
00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:42.559
<v Speaker 2>to your mom is made out of dying stars. Stars

691
00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:45.719
<v Speaker 2>die and implode and the atoms change, and it lands

692
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:51.320
<v Speaker 2>on a planet and it's rearranged to become you now. Astronomer, astrophysicist,

693
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:55.320
<v Speaker 2>and beloved turtleneck aficionado Carl Sagan is known for saying

694
00:37:55.880 --> 00:37:59.159
<v Speaker 2>the nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth,

695
00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:02.800
<v Speaker 2>the iron in our blood, the carbon and our apple

696
00:38:02.840 --> 00:38:07.519
<v Speaker 2>pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We

697
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.519
<v Speaker 2>are made of star stuff. So if someone didn't return

698
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:12.599
<v Speaker 2>your text, or you thought you'd get more likes on

699
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:15.800
<v Speaker 2>a selfie than you did, it does not matter. You

700
00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:20.840
<v Speaker 2>are a walking Tetris fortress of exploding Starshit and no

701
00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:23.840
<v Speaker 2>one can fuck with that. And it's great. Okay, So

702
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:25.920
<v Speaker 2>Cole gets personal with me here.

703
00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:29.599
<v Speaker 3>Let me ask you this with you say you think

704
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:33.480
<v Speaker 3>about death and dying, right, what scares you about that?

705
00:38:33.639 --> 00:38:36.920
<v Speaker 3>Or like what is the thing that like makes you sad?

706
00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:41.840
<v Speaker 2>Or you know, I think about my own death. What

707
00:38:41.960 --> 00:38:46.599
<v Speaker 2>freaks me out is the the like surprise of it

708
00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:49.119
<v Speaker 2>is the not knowing when it's coming. Yeah, Like if

709
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:52.760
<v Speaker 2>it feels like walking around all day in white pants

710
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:55.000
<v Speaker 2>and someone's like, you're gonna get your period at some

711
00:38:55.039 --> 00:38:57.679
<v Speaker 2>point today and you're like, god damn it. And so

712
00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:00.360
<v Speaker 2>it's just this idea that like, this thing's gonna happened,

713
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:02.400
<v Speaker 2>but you won't have any control over it. It could

714
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:05.880
<v Speaker 2>be tomorrow, it could be when you're eighty, but you

715
00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:08.719
<v Speaker 2>don't get to decide, and it's the biggest moment of

716
00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:10.679
<v Speaker 2>your life and you don't get to decide when or

717
00:39:10.719 --> 00:39:13.760
<v Speaker 2>how or where, you know what I mean.

718
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:19.280
<v Speaker 3>Yes, So, first of all our own deaths, like usually

719
00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:22.199
<v Speaker 3>it just like happens to us. Usually we have to

720
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:25.199
<v Speaker 3>deal with death only when other people are dying. And

721
00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:28.719
<v Speaker 3>that can also, more often than not, be the harder

722
00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:31.000
<v Speaker 3>one to choose, because you don't get to pick when

723
00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:34.480
<v Speaker 3>your sister dies or your brother dies. But it'll happen.

724
00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:36.119
<v Speaker 3>You get the call and then you got to jump

725
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:37.840
<v Speaker 3>in or drop everything and deal with it right, and

726
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:41.360
<v Speaker 3>your whole life can be like, yeah, discombobulated with our

727
00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:44.360
<v Speaker 3>own deaths. No, we don't know when they're happening, but

728
00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:50.840
<v Speaker 3>we know it is happening guaranteed. And if we spend

729
00:39:50.920 --> 00:39:54.199
<v Speaker 3>too much time in the future, which is worry, or

730
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:57.000
<v Speaker 3>too much time in the past, which is ruminating, we

731
00:39:57.119 --> 00:39:59.159
<v Speaker 3>end up missing out on the present. And you know

732
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:02.559
<v Speaker 3>what we regret when we die, Like when everything flashes

733
00:40:03.000 --> 00:40:07.119
<v Speaker 3>before you, it's all those present moments that we just

734
00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:09.400
<v Speaker 3>skipped out on. I mean, how much of your I

735
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:12.400
<v Speaker 3>think about when I'm on my freaking cell phone and

736
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:14.639
<v Speaker 3>I pick it up without it. Have you ever been

737
00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:17.239
<v Speaker 3>in line and you look at Instagram and then you

738
00:40:17.280 --> 00:40:18.639
<v Speaker 3>get to the front of the line and you pull

739
00:40:18.679 --> 00:40:21.519
<v Speaker 3>your phone up again to look at Instagram, Like, I'm

740
00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:25.280
<v Speaker 3>not actually like doing anything worthwhile with my life, and

741
00:40:25.320 --> 00:40:27.119
<v Speaker 3>at my end of life, how am I going to

742
00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:29.559
<v Speaker 3>feel about the number of times that I checked Instagram?

743
00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:30.519
<v Speaker 3>Do you know what I mean?

744
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Right?

745
00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:34.679
<v Speaker 3>So, the best way to combat this death anxiety is

746
00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:36.679
<v Speaker 3>what I would call that is this idea of being

747
00:40:36.840 --> 00:40:38.599
<v Speaker 3>like freaked out about, oh my god, I'm going to

748
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:40.000
<v Speaker 3>die and I have no idea when and where and

749
00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:42.480
<v Speaker 3>how that's going to happen. Is to be as present

750
00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:46.280
<v Speaker 3>in your day to day life as possible. And humans,

751
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:50.519
<v Speaker 3>we are wired, all animals are to seek out stability, safety, shelter,

752
00:40:50.679 --> 00:40:54.480
<v Speaker 3>and comfort. Right while not knowing what's going to happen

753
00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:58.480
<v Speaker 3>causes anxiety is the opposite of that. So there are

754
00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:00.920
<v Speaker 3>One of the most powerful things ibody can do is

755
00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:04.079
<v Speaker 3>to work hard to get really clear about what your

756
00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:06.519
<v Speaker 3>purpose in life is or why you're here, or what

757
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:10.880
<v Speaker 3>you are most passionate about. Like for me when I

758
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:13.880
<v Speaker 3>I had a real hard time coming to terms with

759
00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:18.239
<v Speaker 3>like that I love death and dying because just how

760
00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:20.159
<v Speaker 3>I was raised and where I grew up, what part

761
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:22.679
<v Speaker 3>of the country I grew up, like I should I

762
00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:24.960
<v Speaker 3>felt a lot of pressure to like, man, I should

763
00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:26.920
<v Speaker 3>be a nurse, I should get married and have a

764
00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:29.760
<v Speaker 3>bunch of kids, and like homeschool then maybe, but like

765
00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:33.239
<v Speaker 3>big cookies regularly too, like all these pressures, and it

766
00:41:33.320 --> 00:41:36.400
<v Speaker 3>was real hard for me to come to terms with like, Okay,

767
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:40.679
<v Speaker 3>this is what I'm here to do. And a lot

768
00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:42.559
<v Speaker 3>that's how it is for a lot of people with

769
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:45.480
<v Speaker 3>what their purpose in life is. A lot of times

770
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:48.360
<v Speaker 3>it's the thing that you have a hard time accepting

771
00:41:48.400 --> 00:41:50.039
<v Speaker 3>that that's what you're good at and that's what you're

772
00:41:50.079 --> 00:41:52.880
<v Speaker 3>meant to do. So anyway, being clear about that can

773
00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:56.119
<v Speaker 3>really help reduce death anxiety and also help you like

774
00:41:56.679 --> 00:41:59.559
<v Speaker 3>do stuff with your life, like accomplish things so that

775
00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:01.719
<v Speaker 3>you're not kind of spinning your wheels.

776
00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:06.599
<v Speaker 2>Do you take more risks in your life, like creatively

777
00:42:06.679 --> 00:42:11.440
<v Speaker 2>or personally keeping that in mind, like like you have

778
00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:14.960
<v Speaker 2>amazing hair. You have like almost a purple mohawk, Like

779
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:16.599
<v Speaker 2>is there a part of you that's just like, you

780
00:42:16.639 --> 00:42:18.000
<v Speaker 2>know what, I want to live my life with a

781
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:19.840
<v Speaker 2>purple mohawk, and I'm not going to worry about what

782
00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:23.199
<v Speaker 2>anyone wants me to, you know, like you know, have

783
00:42:23.239 --> 00:42:26.440
<v Speaker 2>a blonde bob or anything. Like I'm gonna do what

784
00:42:26.480 --> 00:42:27.880
<v Speaker 2>i want to do and be who I'm going to

785
00:42:27.960 --> 00:42:30.440
<v Speaker 2>be because you have end of life.

786
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:33.960
<v Speaker 3>On mind, like in mind, absolutely without a doubt. Has

787
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:36.400
<v Speaker 3>taught me over the years it's always better to be myself.

788
00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:40.760
<v Speaker 3>And apparently I'm a purple haired person. When I'm myself,

789
00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:43.199
<v Speaker 3>I have more I have met more people and had

790
00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:45.679
<v Speaker 3>more people in my life since I've had a haircut

791
00:42:45.719 --> 00:42:48.840
<v Speaker 3>that I just really enjoyed, yeah, than when I was

792
00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:53.480
<v Speaker 3>having one that you know, resent this right, and it

793
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:56.559
<v Speaker 3>is very freeing and liberating to be who you are,

794
00:42:57.199 --> 00:42:59.719
<v Speaker 3>but it's also real hard to be who you are.

795
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:02.679
<v Speaker 3>Get to it's like, yeah, to accept who you are,

796
00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:04.960
<v Speaker 3>that's the step number one. But once you start to

797
00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:08.559
<v Speaker 3>do that, you can start to you're outside shows who

798
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:10.320
<v Speaker 3>were on the inside. I know we're like talking about

799
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:12.679
<v Speaker 3>all this like life meaning stuff, but all of this

800
00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:16.000
<v Speaker 3>is like directly related to death and dying.

801
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:19.119
<v Speaker 2>Did you have a moment where you realized that you

802
00:43:19.159 --> 00:43:21.840
<v Speaker 2>weren't being yourself and that you wanted you kind of

803
00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:23.280
<v Speaker 2>had a pivot or do you think it was like

804
00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:28.519
<v Speaker 2>a gradual kind of bolstering of your own self esteem

805
00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:31.079
<v Speaker 2>and confidence and sense of self or did you have

806
00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:32.760
<v Speaker 2>a moment where you were like, you know what, fuck

807
00:43:32.840 --> 00:43:34.519
<v Speaker 2>this and then you just started doing what you wanted?

808
00:43:34.800 --> 00:43:39.159
<v Speaker 3>You know, I did in the past few years. So

809
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:43.239
<v Speaker 3>currently online there's all this posts about like me too,

810
00:43:43.400 --> 00:43:45.920
<v Speaker 3>me too, right, right, right, right. So I was assaulted

811
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:49.920
<v Speaker 3>several years ago and I actually pressed charges and I

812
00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:52.559
<v Speaker 3>did the whole deal that, like I mean, I took

813
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:57.199
<v Speaker 3>it all the way and going through an experience like that,

814
00:43:57.400 --> 00:43:59.199
<v Speaker 3>which is another thing that you don't have control of.

815
00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:01.960
<v Speaker 3>You don't know if someone's gonna mug you, you don't

816
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:04.159
<v Speaker 3>know if you're going to be the victim of some

817
00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:08.679
<v Speaker 3>random thing. I mean, we're all afraid of dying, but

818
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:10.800
<v Speaker 3>there's all kinds of other crazy stuff that can happen

819
00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:17.400
<v Speaker 3>to you. I'm so you know what. It sucks, and

820
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:19.760
<v Speaker 3>I still am dealing with it all these years later,

821
00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:26.679
<v Speaker 3>But that horrific experience connects me to so many people

822
00:44:26.840 --> 00:44:29.320
<v Speaker 3>that I would not be able to be connected to

823
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:33.199
<v Speaker 3>without it, And for that I'm grateful, because the worst

824
00:44:33.199 --> 00:44:36.199
<v Speaker 3>thing in life is to be alone, Yes, to feel

825
00:44:36.199 --> 00:44:40.159
<v Speaker 3>like you're alone, And even when something terrible happens to you,

826
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:42.639
<v Speaker 3>you can feel so alone when it happens, but you

827
00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:44.400
<v Speaker 3>know what, it doesn't take very long and you find

828
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:46.920
<v Speaker 3>a bunch of other people that had been there too,

829
00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:53.280
<v Speaker 3>and just it sucks, but there is some level of

830
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:55.159
<v Speaker 3>good there. And I find that with my work and

831
00:44:55.239 --> 00:44:57.679
<v Speaker 3>death and dying, Like when people are actually on their

832
00:44:57.719 --> 00:45:02.280
<v Speaker 3>deathbeds and things, what people remember is like the things

833
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:06.880
<v Speaker 3>that made you weird or distinct, or the crazy experiences

834
00:45:06.920 --> 00:45:10.199
<v Speaker 3>that happened to you, that's what sticks around, not that

835
00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:13.199
<v Speaker 3>you dotted all your eyes and crossed all your teas,

836
00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:15.320
<v Speaker 3>and you responded to every email.

837
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:15.760
<v Speaker 2>In your inbox.

838
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:18.440
<v Speaker 3>That doesn't matter at the end of your life, and

839
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:20.960
<v Speaker 3>when you look back over what you did, what matters

840
00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:23.599
<v Speaker 3>is like, what where are the explosions in your life?

841
00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:28.840
<v Speaker 3>You know, where was the crazy stuff? That's yeah, that's life.

842
00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:31.480
<v Speaker 3>I mean I feel like death is salt. Death is

843
00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:33.960
<v Speaker 3>the salt of life. And you live your whole lives

844
00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:36.960
<v Speaker 3>and every day, every week, you're putting ingredients in that soup,

845
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:40.239
<v Speaker 3>and then when you die, death comes in. Now it's

846
00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:43.199
<v Speaker 3>the salt, and your death is a reflection of how

847
00:45:43.239 --> 00:45:45.440
<v Speaker 3>you lived. And so if you were a bitter, angry,

848
00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:47.840
<v Speaker 3>closed off person your whole life who always had a

849
00:45:47.920 --> 00:45:50.679
<v Speaker 3>chip on the shoulder and an axe to grind, you're

850
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:53.480
<v Speaker 3>gonna Swoop's going to be nasty at the end of life,

851
00:45:53.480 --> 00:45:55.159
<v Speaker 3>and no one's going to want to have any of it,

852
00:45:55.199 --> 00:45:56.480
<v Speaker 3>and no one's going to want to know what the

853
00:45:56.519 --> 00:46:00.360
<v Speaker 3>recipe was. But if you die and you are happy

854
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:02.559
<v Speaker 3>and you put good in the world and you embrace

855
00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:06.159
<v Speaker 3>as much as you could, even the really terrible stuff, yeah,

856
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:09.039
<v Speaker 3>people are going to want to know the recipe, right,

857
00:46:09.159 --> 00:46:11.199
<v Speaker 3>that's amazing and that's how you live.

858
00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:16.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, do you have to use in your experience that

859
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:19.400
<v Speaker 2>what you know, things that you've been through and also

860
00:46:19.480 --> 00:46:22.400
<v Speaker 2>in your work and death and dying. Do you look

861
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:26.039
<v Speaker 2>at the grieving process? Do you apply the grieving process

862
00:46:26.039 --> 00:46:28.960
<v Speaker 2>to things that you've encountered in your own life or

863
00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:31.519
<v Speaker 2>do you think it's a grieving process is really specific

864
00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:32.119
<v Speaker 2>just to death.

865
00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:37.320
<v Speaker 3>So I kind of believe we're grieving our whole lives.

866
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:40.039
<v Speaker 3>And there's something called a big death and a little death,

867
00:46:40.119 --> 00:46:42.320
<v Speaker 3>which is just like my own terminology. We all know

868
00:46:42.400 --> 00:46:45.599
<v Speaker 3>little death is also a term for right, Yeah, So

869
00:46:45.679 --> 00:46:47.639
<v Speaker 3>but like a little death is something like I would

870
00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:49.400
<v Speaker 3>call it, like when I was assaulted. That was a

871
00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:51.320
<v Speaker 3>little like a death was actually a huge death for

872
00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:53.840
<v Speaker 3>me because it was like my sense of like safety

873
00:46:53.840 --> 00:46:58.400
<v Speaker 3>and security and just like that died, like I will

874
00:46:58.480 --> 00:47:01.199
<v Speaker 3>never be the same moving forward. I mean, it permanently

875
00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:04.159
<v Speaker 3>alters you, and so I had to grieve the loss

876
00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:07.719
<v Speaker 3>of like the way life was before that happened. Little

877
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:09.840
<v Speaker 3>deaths can be like when you have a miscarriage or

878
00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:14.440
<v Speaker 3>you get fired. I mean you grieve that stuff. A

879
00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:16.400
<v Speaker 3>big death is one like a human or an animal

880
00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:19.079
<v Speaker 3>that you knew or loved dies. Okay, And a lot

881
00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:21.480
<v Speaker 3>of times the big deaths are easier to deal with

882
00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:25.000
<v Speaker 3>and get through because you have a dead body somewhere.

883
00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:28.079
<v Speaker 3>It's harder to deal with the deaths in life that

884
00:47:28.199 --> 00:47:31.400
<v Speaker 3>like don't have a corpse involved, like you know, divorce

885
00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:34.679
<v Speaker 3>or your best friend just ghosted you or something. I mean,

886
00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:38.719
<v Speaker 3>that can be horrific to go through those things.

887
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:42.599
<v Speaker 2>Little update. So Cole has since coined the perfect term

888
00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:46.079
<v Speaker 2>for this. She calls it shadow loss, those little deaths

889
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:50.840
<v Speaker 2>and those events that insight overlooked grief. She's done and

890
00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:54.280
<v Speaker 2>ted X talk about it. She's written extensively on the

891
00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:56.920
<v Speaker 2>topic of shadow loss and if you are like woman,

892
00:47:57.159 --> 00:48:00.239
<v Speaker 2>please write a book on this. She's on it also

893
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:04.079
<v Speaker 2>any publishers listening to this. Cole is repped by Aaron

894
00:48:04.119 --> 00:48:07.199
<v Speaker 2>Malone at William Morris Endeavor. In case you want to

895
00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:11.400
<v Speaker 2>talk about getting dabs on her book. How does the

896
00:48:11.440 --> 00:48:14.719
<v Speaker 2>grieving process in a healthy way help you through those things?

897
00:48:15.119 --> 00:48:18.039
<v Speaker 2>What are the real cornerstones of the grieving process of

898
00:48:18.039 --> 00:48:19.039
<v Speaker 2>getting through stuff like that?

899
00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:23.519
<v Speaker 3>So, first of all, the grieving process is a roller coaster.

900
00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:28.119
<v Speaker 3>Elizabeth Coogler Ross is known for her five Stages of grief.

901
00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:33.719
<v Speaker 2>The five pack denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and finally acceptance.

902
00:48:34.519 --> 00:48:37.400
<v Speaker 3>But that's often portrayed as it goes in order, and

903
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:40.119
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't like you'll wake up one day and be

904
00:48:40.239 --> 00:48:42.199
<v Speaker 3>angry and then the next day you'll be like, oh,

905
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:43.719
<v Speaker 3>you know what's cool, I get it, and then the

906
00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:46.719
<v Speaker 3>next day you're in denial about it. So you kind

907
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:51.920
<v Speaker 3>of flip around. I believe that you can grieve non deaths, divorce,

908
00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:54.159
<v Speaker 3>all this other kind of hard stuff, and it puts

909
00:48:54.199 --> 00:48:58.000
<v Speaker 3>you in the same vulnerable position. How many have you

910
00:48:58.039 --> 00:49:00.440
<v Speaker 3>ever had something that you've dealt with in your life

911
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:02.320
<v Speaker 3>that wasn't a death, but it like threw you off

912
00:49:02.360 --> 00:49:05.599
<v Speaker 3>your rocker, and you like missed meetings and just things

913
00:49:05.639 --> 00:49:10.039
<v Speaker 3>were just all kurfluffled. Yeah, you're like, it's the bereaved brain.

914
00:49:10.280 --> 00:49:13.760
<v Speaker 3>It's a real thing and it's real.

915
00:49:14.519 --> 00:49:17.320
<v Speaker 2>And what about other animals? Are you fascinated by how

916
00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:19.920
<v Speaker 2>elephants or primates grieve as well?

917
00:49:20.599 --> 00:49:20.719
<v Speaker 1>Oh?

918
00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:23.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And if anything, it makes me sad sometimes because

919
00:49:23.719 --> 00:49:27.559
<v Speaker 3>I'm a big animal lover, and animals have, in my opinion,

920
00:49:27.679 --> 00:49:29.800
<v Speaker 3>the same depth of emotion that humans do.

921
00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:34.400
<v Speaker 2>Evidently, until nineteen eighties, the notion that animals had emotions

922
00:49:34.519 --> 00:49:38.320
<v Speaker 2>was schmaltzy. People weren't into it, And then using imaging,

923
00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:41.480
<v Speaker 2>researchers started looking at brain activity of animals and we're

924
00:49:41.519 --> 00:49:46.519
<v Speaker 2>like oopsie. In twenty twelve, a group of neuroscientists attended

925
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:50.599
<v Speaker 2>a conference on Consciousness in Human and non human Animals

926
00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:55.719
<v Speaker 2>and together they signed the Cambridge Declaration on Consciousness in

927
00:49:55.760 --> 00:50:00.599
<v Speaker 2>Non Human Animals, which says, hey, assholes, animals are conscious

928
00:50:00.920 --> 00:50:04.000
<v Speaker 2>and their brains can feel shit. We're all on the

929
00:50:04.039 --> 00:50:07.880
<v Speaker 2>same page with this. Get on our level. Just to

930
00:50:07.880 --> 00:50:10.039
<v Speaker 2>be clear, that wasn't That wasn't verbatim.

931
00:50:10.719 --> 00:50:14.599
<v Speaker 3>Humans are not that different than animals. We really are not.

932
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:17.840
<v Speaker 3>We all get sad, we all grieve with looking at

933
00:50:17.840 --> 00:50:21.960
<v Speaker 3>the pantatology, you'll see how deeply connected death is to life.

934
00:50:24.360 --> 00:50:28.760
<v Speaker 2>Then why is death so sad? I know that that

935
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:31.519
<v Speaker 2>is like such a general question, But why do we

936
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:34.159
<v Speaker 2>cry at funerals? Why do we create movies? What do

937
00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:36.039
<v Speaker 2>you think that sadness is?

938
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:36.800
<v Speaker 1>So?

939
00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:41.360
<v Speaker 3>If I was gonna be like scientific or analytical about

940
00:50:41.360 --> 00:50:43.719
<v Speaker 3>this response only and have that hot hat on, I'd

941
00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:47.280
<v Speaker 3>say it's because of change. Humans don't like change because

942
00:50:47.320 --> 00:50:52.000
<v Speaker 3>we're built to seek out stability and safety, right, And

943
00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:55.360
<v Speaker 3>what is change not safety? Right? So I need to

944
00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:58.800
<v Speaker 3>So death forces a change, and usually a death is

945
00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:00.719
<v Speaker 3>not just like oh so, and so it isn't in

946
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:03.519
<v Speaker 3>my life anymore, Okay, Like when my grandma died, my

947
00:51:03.519 --> 00:51:06.199
<v Speaker 3>grandpa died first, then my grandma died on my mom's side.

948
00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:09.320
<v Speaker 3>When she died, the hierarchy of the family kind of

949
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:12.920
<v Speaker 3>shifted because then it wasn't holidays at grandma's house anymore.

950
00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:16.239
<v Speaker 3>It kind of branched down, and then like the aunts

951
00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:19.480
<v Speaker 3>and uncles started hosting their own holiday events. Right. So

952
00:51:20.599 --> 00:51:24.639
<v Speaker 3>a death is never just the body is gone. It's

953
00:51:24.760 --> 00:51:28.679
<v Speaker 3>like all this other stuff attached to it, and it's change.

954
00:51:28.840 --> 00:51:31.119
<v Speaker 3>And that's what makes it so hard and why I

955
00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:35.079
<v Speaker 3>think sad and all those kinds of emotions. If I

956
00:51:35.119 --> 00:51:39.360
<v Speaker 3>was putting on my like more touchy feely side, I'd say,

957
00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:43.920
<v Speaker 3>it's so sad when something dies because of love, because

958
00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:47.920
<v Speaker 3>we love because that's what people do. And it's hard

959
00:51:47.960 --> 00:51:51.840
<v Speaker 3>to shift from loving somebody who you know. It's a

960
00:51:51.880 --> 00:51:54.119
<v Speaker 3>two way street when you have a relationship, but when

961
00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:57.400
<v Speaker 3>they die, you then are left having to send your

962
00:51:57.480 --> 00:52:01.639
<v Speaker 3>love into someone that's not there more. And that can

963
00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:04.679
<v Speaker 3>be so hard because you're not getting the feedback. So

964
00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:07.440
<v Speaker 3>then you have to convert to where do I put

965
00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:09.599
<v Speaker 3>all this love that I was giving to Grandma or

966
00:52:09.639 --> 00:52:12.239
<v Speaker 3>that I was giving to my husband or whoever right?

967
00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:17.199
<v Speaker 2>And that's the hard part. I now, speaking of husbands,

968
00:52:17.480 --> 00:52:19.800
<v Speaker 2>you work with yours. Your husband is your business partner

969
00:52:19.840 --> 00:52:23.039
<v Speaker 2>as well. So Cole's husband, Victor and Perry is tall,

970
00:52:23.480 --> 00:52:26.400
<v Speaker 2>with bookish glasses and a very wry sense of humor.

971
00:52:26.480 --> 00:52:28.199
<v Speaker 2>And he was actually sitting a few feet away during

972
00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:31.039
<v Speaker 2>this entire recording, because you know what, it's weird to

973
00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:33.199
<v Speaker 2>go to a Cincinnati Hampton at at eleven PM on

974
00:52:33.199 --> 00:52:34.880
<v Speaker 2>a Tuesday to hang out with a stranger to talk

975
00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:37.239
<v Speaker 2>about corpses. I get it. And a few years ago

976
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:42.280
<v Speaker 2>this little Paracutes recreated the painting American Gothic for the

977
00:52:42.280 --> 00:52:45.920
<v Speaker 2>cover of a magazine, a magazine called American Funeral Director.

978
00:52:46.239 --> 00:52:51.199
<v Speaker 2>They are warm, wonderful, and they are ferocious pickleball players.

979
00:52:51.400 --> 00:52:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Beware I love them. Did you guys meet through death

980
00:52:55.559 --> 00:52:55.960
<v Speaker 2>and dying?

981
00:52:56.400 --> 00:52:59.719
<v Speaker 3>No, no, not at all. My business was sort of

982
00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:03.440
<v Speaker 3>grown and my calling is death and dying. And I'm

983
00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:06.679
<v Speaker 3>very fortunate that I have a partner who supported that.

984
00:53:07.079 --> 00:53:09.280
<v Speaker 3>So for several years. He had a full time job.

985
00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:11.360
<v Speaker 3>Then we grew the business, he was able to leave it.

986
00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:14.800
<v Speaker 3>We traveled together. We're often booked to speak together.

987
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:19.320
<v Speaker 2>Are there any movies about death or dying that you

988
00:53:19.960 --> 00:53:22.679
<v Speaker 2>particularly love that it seems to strike a chord with you.

989
00:53:23.679 --> 00:53:26.440
<v Speaker 3>David the Nome, I don't know it, okay. David the

990
00:53:26.440 --> 00:53:29.840
<v Speaker 3>Gnome was like a really popular cartoon series when I

991
00:53:29.960 --> 00:53:32.320
<v Speaker 3>was a kid, and it came from Japan and came

992
00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:34.480
<v Speaker 3>to the US and was on like PBS and like

993
00:53:34.519 --> 00:53:38.039
<v Speaker 3>the early nineties, late eighties, and David the Nome and

994
00:53:38.039 --> 00:53:41.519
<v Speaker 3>his wife Lisa, so the whole series is just like

995
00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:46.320
<v Speaker 3>Gnome stuff. Basically, in the last episode, they're just like,

996
00:53:47.320 --> 00:53:49.519
<v Speaker 3>so Gnomes only live to be four hundred years old,

997
00:53:49.719 --> 00:53:51.199
<v Speaker 3>but they know they're going to die on their four

998
00:53:51.239 --> 00:53:54.000
<v Speaker 3>hundredth birthday. So he and Lisa Nome go up to

999
00:53:54.039 --> 00:54:01.480
<v Speaker 3>a hill. So well, well, my dear David, fare well,

1000
00:54:01.599 --> 00:54:03.639
<v Speaker 3>my beloved, I thank you for all.

1001
00:54:03.519 --> 00:54:04.559
<v Speaker 2>The love you've given me.

1002
00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:09.159
<v Speaker 3>Or like weeping and like squirrels come and they die

1003
00:54:09.880 --> 00:54:13.400
<v Speaker 3>trees and they had a pet fox. The fox comes

1004
00:54:13.440 --> 00:54:15.360
<v Speaker 3>up there and sees his mom and dad are now

1005
00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:18.199
<v Speaker 3>trees and are dead, and then he was left and

1006
00:54:18.239 --> 00:54:21.320
<v Speaker 3>he had to walk back home was two dead parents

1007
00:54:22.039 --> 00:54:25.960
<v Speaker 3>and that was the last episode. And yeah, that's a

1008
00:54:25.960 --> 00:54:28.679
<v Speaker 3>real clincher. Yeah, you know what, it's probably not actually

1009
00:54:28.719 --> 00:54:30.559
<v Speaker 3>helpful to see that. Oops.

1010
00:54:30.599 --> 00:54:33.199
<v Speaker 2>I watched it and cried. And if you want to

1011
00:54:33.239 --> 00:54:37.000
<v Speaker 2>watch this, it's on YouTube. The title of the clip

1012
00:54:37.079 --> 00:54:42.800
<v Speaker 2>is just David the Gnome kicks the bucket. So how

1013
00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:45.920
<v Speaker 2>do you feel about how death and dying are portrayed

1014
00:54:46.039 --> 00:54:47.599
<v Speaker 2>in popular culture?

1015
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:52.119
<v Speaker 3>In real life, when something when somebody dies, it is

1016
00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:56.599
<v Speaker 3>messy afterwards, because your whole life is discombobulated and you know,

1017
00:54:56.679 --> 00:54:59.159
<v Speaker 3>everything is just off kilter. But I think that is

1018
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:04.039
<v Speaker 3>a contributing fact because we don't have exposure to examples

1019
00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:08.239
<v Speaker 3>of good coping skills really in other parts of your

1020
00:55:08.280 --> 00:55:10.360
<v Speaker 3>life unless you grew up around it, you know, or

1021
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:12.719
<v Speaker 3>you grew up in a family that talked openly about

1022
00:55:12.760 --> 00:55:16.079
<v Speaker 3>death and dying. And I'm an instructor at a mortuary

1023
00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:19.960
<v Speaker 3>college and I teach sanatology for a bachelor program, and

1024
00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:23.199
<v Speaker 3>so all of my students are funeral directors, are on bombers.

1025
00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:27.079
<v Speaker 3>Really interesting crowd to be able to teach because you know,

1026
00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:29.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm thinking, okay, they want to learn. I'm teaching them panatology,

1027
00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:32.519
<v Speaker 3>but they work day in and day out with death

1028
00:55:32.559 --> 00:55:35.239
<v Speaker 3>and dying, and one of the first assignments in the

1029
00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:37.679
<v Speaker 3>course is they have to tell me about their upbringing

1030
00:55:37.760 --> 00:55:40.280
<v Speaker 3>and how they deal with death and dying. And a

1031
00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:42.440
<v Speaker 3>lot of them, even the ones who grew up in

1032
00:55:42.519 --> 00:55:46.800
<v Speaker 3>funeral homes, never actually talk or talked about death and

1033
00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:50.280
<v Speaker 3>dying with their families. There'd be dead bodies downstairs in

1034
00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:53.800
<v Speaker 3>the funeral home, but they never really like really talked

1035
00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:56.599
<v Speaker 3>about it, And that I think is the most healthy

1036
00:55:56.639 --> 00:56:00.280
<v Speaker 3>thing that any family can do, is just have real

1037
00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:04.280
<v Speaker 3>conversation about death and dying, whatever comes up, you talk

1038
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:08.400
<v Speaker 3>about instead of it just being Grandma died. The funerals

1039
00:56:08.440 --> 00:56:10.519
<v Speaker 3>on Wednesday. Done.

1040
00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:13.599
<v Speaker 2>Please kiss her? Yes, if it's open casket.

1041
00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:17.239
<v Speaker 3>On the hand, she will be cold and hard, but

1042
00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:18.679
<v Speaker 3>it's still your grandma.

1043
00:56:18.599 --> 00:56:19.719
<v Speaker 2>So put your mouth on her.

1044
00:56:20.159 --> 00:56:20.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1045
00:56:21.039 --> 00:56:23.639
<v Speaker 2>Just to rewind when you say funeral home and the

1046
00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:27.320
<v Speaker 2>bodies are downstairs, I'm sorry, is that actually a home?

1047
00:56:27.519 --> 00:56:29.719
<v Speaker 2>Did you live there? And then do people and funeral

1048
00:56:29.719 --> 00:56:31.480
<v Speaker 2>homes live there? And then the bodies are downstairs.

1049
00:56:31.519 --> 00:56:34.920
<v Speaker 3>Not all funeral homes, but some funeral homes. It's very common,

1050
00:56:35.719 --> 00:56:38.480
<v Speaker 3>and this gives a vestige of like history sort of,

1051
00:56:38.480 --> 00:56:40.280
<v Speaker 3>but like it'd be very normal for the undertaker in

1052
00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:43.159
<v Speaker 3>town to have a home. And he was also the undertaker,

1053
00:56:43.199 --> 00:56:46.679
<v Speaker 3>but he had his family there currently today. And I

1054
00:56:46.719 --> 00:56:50.559
<v Speaker 3>know a lot of even my students, they're living on

1055
00:56:50.840 --> 00:56:53.599
<v Speaker 3>like the third floor of the funeral home and like

1056
00:56:53.639 --> 00:56:56.039
<v Speaker 3>the little apartment and then the funeral home is on

1057
00:56:56.039 --> 00:56:58.559
<v Speaker 3>the main floor, and then the basement usually has like

1058
00:56:58.800 --> 00:57:02.079
<v Speaker 3>body storage and the and all that stuff. So but

1059
00:57:02.119 --> 00:57:03.960
<v Speaker 3>I'll tell you what, So I go to a lot

1060
00:57:03.960 --> 00:57:06.880
<v Speaker 3>of the conventions and stuff in death care, and there's

1061
00:57:06.920 --> 00:57:10.599
<v Speaker 3>just some wonderful, wonderful stories about a lot of these couples,

1062
00:57:10.719 --> 00:57:14.440
<v Speaker 3>funeral director couple couples that like, you know, first date

1063
00:57:14.599 --> 00:57:17.000
<v Speaker 3>or second date and we're going back to my place

1064
00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:18.519
<v Speaker 3>and I have to tell my date that I live

1065
00:57:18.559 --> 00:57:21.800
<v Speaker 3>in a funeral home. And it's just it's just different.

1066
00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:24.239
<v Speaker 3>It's just interesting. I think it's fascinating. I think it's

1067
00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:26.320
<v Speaker 3>also lovely. It's a great way to wed out people

1068
00:57:26.360 --> 00:57:28.320
<v Speaker 3>who can't tolerate your life.

1069
00:57:27.880 --> 00:57:30.639
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, you know, when you're you know how people

1070
00:57:30.679 --> 00:57:33.079
<v Speaker 2>are like, oh, basements are so scary, and you're like, well,

1071
00:57:33.119 --> 00:57:36.639
<v Speaker 2>mine's an actual morgue. Yes, I actually had dead bodies,

1072
00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:39.960
<v Speaker 2>and yes, have you ever seen anything creepy? Or is

1073
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:42.880
<v Speaker 2>your exposure and your familiarity with death and dying like

1074
00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:46.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of let you understand that, like there's nothing creepy.

1075
00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:49.320
<v Speaker 2>Ghosts aren real, Like there's there's no bumps in the night.

1076
00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:54.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah, I mean regularly I'm around dead people and

1077
00:57:55.000 --> 00:57:58.039
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't bother me, and it really never has. And

1078
00:57:58.239 --> 00:58:05.519
<v Speaker 3>in terms of like being scared of stuff, actually I'm

1079
00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:07.599
<v Speaker 3>not afraid of ghosts, but like I'll be home by

1080
00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:09.599
<v Speaker 3>myself sometimes and I'll like hear a noise and I'll

1081
00:58:09.639 --> 00:58:11.840
<v Speaker 3>be like, oh my god, the demons are coming into

1082
00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:14.400
<v Speaker 3>my home because I'll have just read some book about

1083
00:58:14.400 --> 00:58:18.400
<v Speaker 3>like demonology within some like weird ass like tradition or something,

1084
00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:20.920
<v Speaker 3>and I'm like, that demon is here. It found me

1085
00:58:21.000 --> 00:58:23.039
<v Speaker 3>because I summoned it because I read its name out loud,

1086
00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:25.119
<v Speaker 3>so I will freak I am. I am the most

1087
00:58:25.159 --> 00:58:28.760
<v Speaker 3>successful at freaking myself out. But I am not like

1088
00:58:28.920 --> 00:58:33.119
<v Speaker 3>I don't like the ghost thing or whatever. Although I've

1089
00:58:33.119 --> 00:58:35.960
<v Speaker 3>been studying quite a bit about Tibetan Buddhism in particular,

1090
00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:39.039
<v Speaker 3>and there are traditions and Tibetan Buddhists do not play

1091
00:58:39.159 --> 00:58:41.719
<v Speaker 3>when it comes to death and dying, Like what do

1092
00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:43.599
<v Speaker 3>you die if you're a Tibetan Buddhists and you believe

1093
00:58:43.639 --> 00:58:45.599
<v Speaker 3>that they'll do like a like kind of like a

1094
00:58:45.639 --> 00:58:48.920
<v Speaker 3>horoscope at the time of your death to figure out,

1095
00:58:48.960 --> 00:58:51.679
<v Speaker 3>according to the stars when, like how long your body

1096
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:54.480
<v Speaker 3>should be left out, so that they can identify when

1097
00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:57.000
<v Speaker 3>the soul actually leaves your body, because you do not

1098
00:58:57.079 --> 00:58:58.840
<v Speaker 3>want to bury or cremate someone when the soul is

1099
00:58:58.840 --> 00:59:00.320
<v Speaker 3>still in there. That's what you're trying to void.

1100
00:59:00.519 --> 00:59:02.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh so that's a party fell.

1101
00:59:02.960 --> 00:59:04.800
<v Speaker 3>I don't know why I was talking about this. See,

1102
00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:07.440
<v Speaker 3>this is the problem ghosts. I just got ghosts. So

1103
00:59:08.440 --> 00:59:11.320
<v Speaker 3>Tibtan Buddhists, it's not getting the soul out and then

1104
00:59:11.360 --> 00:59:14.199
<v Speaker 3>but there's whole field of study within that about what

1105
00:59:14.320 --> 00:59:17.320
<v Speaker 3>happens if your soul isn't doing what it's supposed to

1106
00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:19.960
<v Speaker 3>do and it's left behind. And I have read some

1107
00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:24.079
<v Speaker 3>pretty compelling stuff over the years about those kinds of things.

1108
00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:26.360
<v Speaker 3>And I'm not saying that it's real or it's not real.

1109
00:59:26.599 --> 00:59:29.599
<v Speaker 3>I'm just saying that those accounts exist and are very

1110
00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:32.800
<v Speaker 3>thorough and like documented and all that kind of stuff.

1111
00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:36.199
<v Speaker 2>So I'm alone in my apartment Saturday night, and I'm

1112
00:59:36.199 --> 00:59:39.800
<v Speaker 2>looking up to Betan Ghosts for this episode, and I'm

1113
00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:42.480
<v Speaker 2>like reading about a type of spirit that is just

1114
00:59:43.159 --> 00:59:47.000
<v Speaker 2>next level bummed out ghost. It's called a hunger ghost.

1115
00:59:47.400 --> 00:59:50.639
<v Speaker 2>They have a tiny throat and a huge stomach, and

1116
00:59:50.679 --> 00:59:54.519
<v Speaker 2>they can never be satisfied. They're said to arise with

1117
00:59:54.800 --> 00:59:59.960
<v Speaker 2>traumatic deaths. Anyway, right as I'm reading about this, this happened.

1118
01:00:01.159 --> 01:00:03.199
<v Speaker 2>I quickly I turn on my phone to record it.

1119
01:00:06.679 --> 01:00:10.039
<v Speaker 2>Hi there, how are you good?

1120
01:00:11.679 --> 01:00:17.400
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much? Oh sweet?

1121
01:00:18.679 --> 01:00:20.880
<v Speaker 2>That was the sound of a man coming up to

1122
01:00:20.920 --> 01:00:25.159
<v Speaker 2>my door delivering an extra large pizza to me. Just

1123
01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:28.679
<v Speaker 2>me reading about hungry ghosts. I'm meeting an extra large

1124
01:00:28.679 --> 01:00:31.320
<v Speaker 2>pizza by myself. But you know what, it's vegan and

1125
01:00:31.360 --> 01:00:33.599
<v Speaker 2>gluten free because I live in Los Angeles and I'm

1126
01:00:33.599 --> 01:00:36.320
<v Speaker 2>the worst and I don't want to die of any

1127
01:00:36.440 --> 01:00:38.920
<v Speaker 2>of those causes of death that don't involve falling off

1128
01:00:38.920 --> 01:00:42.519
<v Speaker 2>a roof. Okay, get back to it. Do you have

1129
01:00:42.559 --> 01:00:44.800
<v Speaker 2>a book or resource that you recommend to people who

1130
01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:46.840
<v Speaker 2>are just going through the throes of like a grieving

1131
01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:48.800
<v Speaker 2>process the scal.

1132
01:00:48.639 --> 01:00:50.639
<v Speaker 3>Her name is Joanne Fink, and she has a book

1133
01:00:50.679 --> 01:00:52.639
<v Speaker 3>because one day she woke up and her husband did

1134
01:00:52.639 --> 01:00:54.880
<v Speaker 3>not wake up with her. Very sad that I expected.

1135
01:00:55.519 --> 01:00:57.480
<v Speaker 3>So I always recommend books that are written by people

1136
01:00:57.559 --> 01:01:01.639
<v Speaker 3>that have had like whoa and she has this little

1137
01:01:01.639 --> 01:01:03.880
<v Speaker 3>book and I actually buy this book. And this is

1138
01:01:03.920 --> 01:01:05.800
<v Speaker 3>what I give out to people when they've had a loss.

1139
01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:08.000
<v Speaker 3>And it's called When you Lose Someone you Love by

1140
01:01:08.079 --> 01:01:11.159
<v Speaker 3>Joanne Fink. I have a book that I recommend for

1141
01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:14.960
<v Speaker 3>people who like if you are going to be around

1142
01:01:15.039 --> 01:01:18.280
<v Speaker 3>someone who is like dying, like actively dying, like so

1143
01:01:18.360 --> 01:01:21.159
<v Speaker 3>that you know what to do. It's called Attending the Dying.

1144
01:01:21.199 --> 01:01:22.960
<v Speaker 3>And that's by Megarie Anderson.

1145
01:01:23.159 --> 01:01:27.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, super important scientific question. If you could become

1146
01:01:27.079 --> 01:01:28.400
<v Speaker 2>a ghost, would you become a ghost?

1147
01:01:28.519 --> 01:01:30.239
<v Speaker 3>I'm like thought, I'm like, I'm gonna be honest. I

1148
01:01:30.280 --> 01:01:32.920
<v Speaker 3>looked into this, really, yeah, of course I did. I

1149
01:01:32.920 --> 01:01:35.400
<v Speaker 3>will look into anything. Do not check my search history

1150
01:01:35.440 --> 01:01:39.559
<v Speaker 3>because I guarantee you it is like probably offensive in

1151
01:01:39.599 --> 01:01:42.559
<v Speaker 3>some way, but that all that information is out there

1152
01:01:42.559 --> 01:01:44.400
<v Speaker 3>and that probably makes me sound very hippy dippy. But

1153
01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:47.360
<v Speaker 3>if anything I've learned over the years, it's like I

1154
01:01:47.480 --> 01:01:50.519
<v Speaker 3>don't I don't make assumptions about anything anymore.

1155
01:01:51.119 --> 01:01:55.360
<v Speaker 2>What does science say about the soul leaving the body?

1156
01:01:55.599 --> 01:02:00.599
<v Speaker 3>Yes, so I love this question because this is where

1157
01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:05.880
<v Speaker 3>religious and cultural and social beliefs intersect with science, and

1158
01:02:06.079 --> 01:02:09.360
<v Speaker 3>it's where we hit the big question mark and the

1159
01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:14.360
<v Speaker 3>big conflict about are physical bodies. So there is nothing

1160
01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:19.039
<v Speaker 3>scientifically that I'm aware of that's like, oh, this is

1161
01:02:19.039 --> 01:02:19.840
<v Speaker 3>where your soul is.

1162
01:02:19.960 --> 01:02:21.760
<v Speaker 2>So this idea of soul.

1163
01:02:21.719 --> 01:02:27.639
<v Speaker 3>Is informed by the non physical science side of things,

1164
01:02:28.039 --> 01:02:30.119
<v Speaker 3>and it comes down to what do you believe.

1165
01:02:30.920 --> 01:02:32.960
<v Speaker 2>So there's this whole mess of people who think that

1166
01:02:33.039 --> 01:02:36.159
<v Speaker 2>the soul is a thing and it weighs twenty one grams,

1167
01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:40.639
<v Speaker 2>partly because of the two thousand and three blockbuster twenty

1168
01:02:40.679 --> 01:02:43.519
<v Speaker 2>one grams. Now from the trailer that I just watched

1169
01:02:43.559 --> 01:02:46.280
<v Speaker 2>on YouTube, it seems to be about a bunch of

1170
01:02:46.280 --> 01:02:50.960
<v Speaker 2>sad people and Benicio del Toro's in it needing a makeover.

1171
01:02:51.440 --> 01:02:55.960
<v Speaker 2>But this original idea stemmed from the scientific experiments of

1172
01:02:56.000 --> 01:02:59.719
<v Speaker 2>a fellow named McDougall, who in the early nineteen hundreds

1173
01:02:59.719 --> 01:03:02.519
<v Speaker 2>had this idea to wait around like a really eagle

1174
01:03:02.599 --> 01:03:06.000
<v Speaker 2>eied umpire near the dying and then scoot them over

1175
01:03:06.079 --> 01:03:08.440
<v Speaker 2>to a big scale at their big moment to see

1176
01:03:08.440 --> 01:03:10.920
<v Speaker 2>if they lost any weight as they passed, and he

1177
01:03:11.000 --> 01:03:14.760
<v Speaker 2>measured a bunch of folks and ignored most of the numbers,

1178
01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:18.400
<v Speaker 2>but he did report a small handful who lost about

1179
01:03:18.440 --> 01:03:21.079
<v Speaker 2>twenty one grams of weight as they died. He also

1180
01:03:21.119 --> 01:03:23.360
<v Speaker 2>tried this on dogs. He wanted to at least, but

1181
01:03:23.360 --> 01:03:25.920
<v Speaker 2>he couldn't find any super sick dogs. But then suddenly

1182
01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:27.840
<v Speaker 2>he had a bunch of data on dogs and people

1183
01:03:27.880 --> 01:03:30.719
<v Speaker 2>were like, McDougall, did you poison the dogs? And he

1184
01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:34.000
<v Speaker 2>was like, huh what, No. Nobody believed him. In general,

1185
01:03:34.039 --> 01:03:36.800
<v Speaker 2>people didn't believe him because that twenty one grams of

1186
01:03:36.800 --> 01:03:40.719
<v Speaker 2>weight loss wasn't a consistent figure anyway, and also because

1187
01:03:40.719 --> 01:03:43.880
<v Speaker 2>that could just be due to sweat loss. Can I

1188
01:03:43.960 --> 01:03:45.800
<v Speaker 2>just say that? When I was looking up the trailer

1189
01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:49.800
<v Speaker 2>for twenty one grams, YouTube suggested a video about why

1190
01:03:50.280 --> 01:03:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Hollywood doesn't care about Hillary Swank anymore, and I was like, yeah,

1191
01:03:53.079 --> 01:03:55.960
<v Speaker 2>click that, I'll take the bait. I found that video

1192
01:03:56.039 --> 01:03:59.920
<v Speaker 2>to be more depressing than the part of the web

1193
01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:03.920
<v Speaker 2>site about pod coffins that detailed waiting out Rigor Mortis

1194
01:04:03.920 --> 01:04:06.079
<v Speaker 2>before shaping you into a fetal ball and putting you

1195
01:04:06.119 --> 01:04:09.599
<v Speaker 2>into the biodegrade of lag let the woman win some oscars.

1196
01:04:09.800 --> 01:04:12.880
<v Speaker 2>Why you got a hate honor. So some people believe

1197
01:04:12.880 --> 01:04:14.840
<v Speaker 2>in souls, some people.

1198
01:04:14.639 --> 01:04:18.119
<v Speaker 3>Don't, because this is the thing that impacts the way

1199
01:04:18.199 --> 01:04:20.840
<v Speaker 3>that you are going to live your life or approach

1200
01:04:20.880 --> 01:04:23.199
<v Speaker 3>your life. Because if you believe that your soul's a

1201
01:04:23.199 --> 01:04:27.159
<v Speaker 3>real deal thing, that's probably going to impact your decision

1202
01:04:27.199 --> 01:04:30.320
<v Speaker 3>making process. But if you don't believe it, or if

1203
01:04:30.360 --> 01:04:34.159
<v Speaker 3>you've never heard of this concept before, you know, you

1204
01:04:34.280 --> 01:04:39.239
<v Speaker 3>may make decisions differently. There's this thing called insulment another

1205
01:04:39.320 --> 01:04:44.960
<v Speaker 3>keyword learning word. Insulment is discussed in every religious tradition

1206
01:04:45.159 --> 01:04:48.000
<v Speaker 3>that I know of, and it discusses when does the

1207
01:04:48.039 --> 01:04:52.519
<v Speaker 3>soul enter the body because religious traditions look at that

1208
01:04:52.719 --> 01:04:56.079
<v Speaker 3>point to decide when you are an actual life, because

1209
01:04:56.079 --> 01:04:59.119
<v Speaker 3>you're not a full life until you have body plus soul.

1210
01:04:59.559 --> 01:05:02.440
<v Speaker 3>So you become a life in different points. So in

1211
01:05:02.519 --> 01:05:06.519
<v Speaker 3>Judaism it's the fortieth day of gestation, that's when you're life.

1212
01:05:06.559 --> 01:05:10.719
<v Speaker 3>So and in Judaism, well, traditional I guess is the

1213
01:05:10.719 --> 01:05:13.400
<v Speaker 3>way to say, if you have like a miscarriage, you

1214
01:05:13.639 --> 01:05:18.800
<v Speaker 3>technically there's no grieving in quotes because it wasn't actually

1215
01:05:19.280 --> 01:05:22.840
<v Speaker 3>a life. And then that is something called disenfranchised grief.

1216
01:05:23.159 --> 01:05:27.559
<v Speaker 3>Keyword disenfranchised grief is something that happens when like, let's

1217
01:05:27.559 --> 01:05:29.800
<v Speaker 3>say you have a miscarriage and you people be like, oh,

1218
01:05:29.840 --> 01:05:31.679
<v Speaker 3>at least it wasn't a real baby, and you're like,

1219
01:05:31.719 --> 01:05:35.320
<v Speaker 3>I'm still sad, I'm still devastated. That's disenfranchised grief. It's

1220
01:05:35.320 --> 01:05:39.719
<v Speaker 3>when you're grieving but society or cultural norms will say, oh,

1221
01:05:39.760 --> 01:05:41.519
<v Speaker 3>but you're not entitled to those feelings.

1222
01:05:41.880 --> 01:05:44.920
<v Speaker 2>So it's other people being bitchy about your grief. Yes,

1223
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:45.559
<v Speaker 2>also it.

1224
01:05:45.639 --> 01:05:46.880
<v Speaker 3>Disadvantchised people are dicks.

1225
01:05:46.960 --> 01:05:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so you can you are a certified crematory operator. Yes, Okay,

1226
01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:55.599
<v Speaker 2>sorry to jump back to cremation, but it's growing in

1227
01:05:55.639 --> 01:05:59.000
<v Speaker 2>popularity and I've just I felt hazy on the details.

1228
01:05:59.280 --> 01:06:01.719
<v Speaker 3>So like a lot of states now require that for

1229
01:06:01.760 --> 01:06:04.599
<v Speaker 3>someone to operate the crematory that you need to have

1230
01:06:04.840 --> 01:06:06.519
<v Speaker 3>the sort and it's really like just like a little

1231
01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:09.079
<v Speaker 3>simple test. I mean, just you need to not be

1232
01:06:09.079 --> 01:06:09.559
<v Speaker 3>an idiot.

1233
01:06:09.880 --> 01:06:12.079
<v Speaker 2>So I mean to not be an idiot. Yeah, just

1234
01:06:12.159 --> 01:06:13.920
<v Speaker 2>throw your car keys in with the body.

1235
01:06:14.079 --> 01:06:16.440
<v Speaker 3>Yep. Yeah, like don't like get in there for fun,

1236
01:06:16.639 --> 01:06:17.199
<v Speaker 3>because it's not.

1237
01:06:17.400 --> 01:06:22.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, when they when someone is cremated, they're cremated in

1238
01:06:23.000 --> 01:06:24.000
<v Speaker 2>a casket, right.

1239
01:06:25.039 --> 01:06:29.239
<v Speaker 3>Or not a lot of times? Okay, So okay, cremation.

1240
01:06:31.079 --> 01:06:33.920
<v Speaker 3>So I believe all states in the United States require

1241
01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:38.239
<v Speaker 3>you to be cremated in a cardboard outer container at

1242
01:06:38.280 --> 01:06:43.000
<v Speaker 3>a minimum, So that's basically a cardboard box, and it's

1243
01:06:43.000 --> 01:06:46.880
<v Speaker 3>like basically body cardboard, right, and you get get slit in.

1244
01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:51.360
<v Speaker 3>People also will buy like wood caskets. So let's say that,

1245
01:06:51.480 --> 01:06:56.760
<v Speaker 3>like cold eyes, husband buys me a beautiful casket cherry wood,

1246
01:06:57.159 --> 01:06:59.440
<v Speaker 3>and then I'm just I'm laid out and there's like

1247
01:06:59.440 --> 01:07:03.159
<v Speaker 3>a visitation and then I get cremated in that same casket.

1248
01:07:03.400 --> 01:07:06.239
<v Speaker 3>So it'll burn up the wood, right, but not in

1249
01:07:06.280 --> 01:07:07.239
<v Speaker 3>like a metal casket.

1250
01:07:07.800 --> 01:07:10.480
<v Speaker 2>No, Yeah, so some of the ashes might also be

1251
01:07:10.639 --> 01:07:11.840
<v Speaker 2>casket ashes.

1252
01:07:12.280 --> 01:07:16.840
<v Speaker 3>Yes, okay, carbon is well no, because at that temperature, okay,

1253
01:07:16.880 --> 01:07:22.119
<v Speaker 3>so the wood goes completely away because you're cremated between

1254
01:07:22.159 --> 01:07:27.239
<v Speaker 3>sixteen and eighteen hundred degrees fahrenheit, it's very hot. When

1255
01:07:27.280 --> 01:07:30.000
<v Speaker 3>the body is cremated. All that is left if the

1256
01:07:30.000 --> 01:07:33.760
<v Speaker 3>cremation is done to completion, like if it's done right,

1257
01:07:34.239 --> 01:07:39.440
<v Speaker 3>is calcium bicarbonate. That's what's left, and there is no

1258
01:07:39.599 --> 01:07:41.079
<v Speaker 3>genetic material left.

1259
01:07:41.239 --> 01:07:41.760
<v Speaker 2>So like you.

1260
01:07:42.119 --> 01:07:44.039
<v Speaker 3>Let's say that I was just a bunch of cremated

1261
01:07:44.079 --> 01:07:46.960
<v Speaker 3>remains and you wanted to DNA test it to see like, oh,

1262
01:07:47.079 --> 01:07:50.360
<v Speaker 3>let's see if that's actually coal. If you're cremated appropriately,

1263
01:07:50.360 --> 01:07:52.639
<v Speaker 3>there's no genetic material left at all to be able

1264
01:07:52.679 --> 01:07:53.159
<v Speaker 3>to test that.

1265
01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:56.079
<v Speaker 2>And I understand that there's a pretty good chance that

1266
01:07:56.119 --> 01:07:58.159
<v Speaker 2>you might get a couple of flakes of dust from

1267
01:07:58.159 --> 01:07:59.440
<v Speaker 2>somebody else in there too.

1268
01:07:59.719 --> 01:08:04.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean that absolutely happens. There's no way to

1269
01:08:04.960 --> 01:08:08.880
<v Speaker 3>get one hundred percent of everything out of the retort

1270
01:08:09.000 --> 01:08:12.519
<v Speaker 3>the cremation chamber, because think about what happened. Okay, you

1271
01:08:12.599 --> 01:08:15.639
<v Speaker 3>have a bonfire. What happens when it gets really hot, right,

1272
01:08:15.719 --> 01:08:18.960
<v Speaker 3>it swirls, It swirls around, and you get like hot

1273
01:08:19.000 --> 01:08:22.279
<v Speaker 3>wind that happens inside the cremation chamber. And the cremation

1274
01:08:22.399 --> 01:08:24.479
<v Speaker 3>chamber is much bigger than the size of a body,

1275
01:08:24.800 --> 01:08:26.760
<v Speaker 3>and so you get all these little parts and stuff

1276
01:08:26.800 --> 01:08:29.520
<v Speaker 3>that fly around, and there's things like static electricity that

1277
01:08:29.600 --> 01:08:30.560
<v Speaker 3>can hold things up.

1278
01:08:30.640 --> 01:08:36.159
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, so and what about embalming and body preparation?

1279
01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:37.680
<v Speaker 2>Do you do any of that or are you like

1280
01:08:37.960 --> 01:08:38.760
<v Speaker 2>nasts on my bag?

1281
01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:41.880
<v Speaker 3>I am not a licensed and bomber. However, I have

1282
01:08:43.079 --> 01:08:47.439
<v Speaker 3>witnessed them and know about them, and I deal with

1283
01:08:47.479 --> 01:08:51.640
<v Speaker 3>that in my job pretty you know, pretty regularly. So

1284
01:08:51.680 --> 01:08:54.359
<v Speaker 3>it's interesting. Quite a few of my students all they

1285
01:08:54.359 --> 01:08:57.560
<v Speaker 3>want to do morning tonight is in bomb That's it.

1286
01:08:57.600 --> 01:09:00.000
<v Speaker 3>That's all they want to do. And just like I am,

1287
01:09:00.199 --> 01:09:03.159
<v Speaker 3>like I love working with death and dying. I'm into it,

1288
01:09:03.279 --> 01:09:07.439
<v Speaker 3>They're like I love embalming. They love it. Why, Yeah,

1289
01:09:07.680 --> 01:09:09.520
<v Speaker 3>that's that's what they you know. I mean, there's there's

1290
01:09:09.560 --> 01:09:11.199
<v Speaker 3>got to be somebody, and there are a lot of

1291
01:09:11.199 --> 01:09:14.439
<v Speaker 3>families and people who embalming is part of their family

1292
01:09:14.479 --> 01:09:17.760
<v Speaker 3>tradition or their religious tradition and it's important to them.

1293
01:09:17.920 --> 01:09:20.520
<v Speaker 2>So for more on this and the science and the

1294
01:09:20.640 --> 01:09:24.319
<v Speaker 2>art of funeral makeup, listen to the October twenty twenty

1295
01:09:24.359 --> 01:09:28.960
<v Speaker 2>episode on Desertrology with Monica Taurus, Who is a treasure?

1296
01:09:29.199 --> 01:09:31.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay cool? Do you think that people who are in

1297
01:09:31.680 --> 01:09:35.199
<v Speaker 2>the death and dying industry are a certain personality type

1298
01:09:35.239 --> 01:09:37.560
<v Speaker 2>or does it really? Does it totally run the gamut?

1299
01:09:37.640 --> 01:09:41.319
<v Speaker 2>Like does your stereotype of what a mortician is, you know,

1300
01:09:41.439 --> 01:09:46.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of stoic and quiet? Is that completely untrue?

1301
01:09:47.000 --> 01:09:51.039
<v Speaker 3>So this is like love talking about this because in

1302
01:09:51.119 --> 01:09:53.960
<v Speaker 3>death care. Currently in the United States, we are having

1303
01:09:54.039 --> 01:09:57.680
<v Speaker 3>a huge shift in who are like quote unquote typical

1304
01:09:58.199 --> 01:10:01.560
<v Speaker 3>funeral director is. So many years ago, it was by

1305
01:10:01.640 --> 01:10:07.199
<v Speaker 3>far male dominated and like men, men, men, men. Now

1306
01:10:07.279 --> 01:10:10.359
<v Speaker 3>it's female dominated. Most of the students enrolled in mortuary

1307
01:10:10.359 --> 01:10:14.000
<v Speaker 3>school are women, and I believe that's nationwide now really Yeah,

1308
01:10:14.039 --> 01:10:17.319
<v Speaker 3>So you know how like the nursing profession was male

1309
01:10:17.359 --> 01:10:20.359
<v Speaker 3>dominated and then it became like women. Now we're having

1310
01:10:20.359 --> 01:10:23.560
<v Speaker 3>that happen in death care. And I'm personally very excited

1311
01:10:23.600 --> 01:10:25.920
<v Speaker 3>about that because I feel like the role of the

1312
01:10:25.920 --> 01:10:28.880
<v Speaker 3>funeral director is shifting in the United States right now.

1313
01:10:29.479 --> 01:10:32.760
<v Speaker 3>Also within death care the profession, we're starting to see

1314
01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:35.359
<v Speaker 3>an increase in our educational standards. You know, I'm teaching

1315
01:10:35.359 --> 01:10:38.399
<v Speaker 3>a bachelor part of a Bachelor of Funeral Service degree

1316
01:10:38.680 --> 01:10:41.800
<v Speaker 3>because the standard now has been a two year associates degree,

1317
01:10:42.000 --> 01:10:44.319
<v Speaker 3>oh to become a funeral director or in a walmer

1318
01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:48.279
<v Speaker 3>and not all states require that WHOA, and it varies

1319
01:10:48.319 --> 01:10:51.880
<v Speaker 3>state to state. So in Colorado, for example, there's no

1320
01:10:51.960 --> 01:10:56.439
<v Speaker 3>requirement for education to become a funeral director WHOA.

1321
01:10:56.520 --> 01:10:58.479
<v Speaker 2>But like, I love that, You're like, I could buy

1322
01:10:58.680 --> 01:11:04.960
<v Speaker 2>a dime bag grocery store we yeah, funeral director like Colorado, Yeah,

1323
01:11:05.039 --> 01:11:05.720
<v Speaker 2>wild West.

1324
01:11:06.039 --> 01:11:09.079
<v Speaker 3>Yes, I hope that all funeral directors are required to

1325
01:11:09.119 --> 01:11:11.840
<v Speaker 3>have a four year degree in the future.

1326
01:11:11.840 --> 01:11:14.199
<v Speaker 2>You ready for some questions from listeners? Oh? Yes, Oh

1327
01:11:14.279 --> 01:11:18.560
<v Speaker 2>my gosh, we got some questions other than I feel

1328
01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:21.479
<v Speaker 2>like I have a million questions to ask you just

1329
01:11:21.520 --> 01:11:23.560
<v Speaker 2>because I'm like, what's going to happen when I do?

1330
01:11:23.720 --> 01:11:25.840
<v Speaker 3>Should I be afraid? What am I doing?

1331
01:11:26.279 --> 01:11:29.399
<v Speaker 2>Okay? Okay? But first a quick break with words about

1332
01:11:29.439 --> 01:11:31.359
<v Speaker 2>our sponsors who make it possible for us to donate

1333
01:11:31.399 --> 01:11:34.319
<v Speaker 2>to a cause, and this week I'm choosing it to

1334
01:11:34.319 --> 01:11:37.000
<v Speaker 2>go to the School of American Thanatology, which was founded

1335
01:11:37.359 --> 01:11:38.279
<v Speaker 2>by Cole and Perry.

1336
01:11:38.520 --> 01:11:38.600
<v Speaker 1>So.

1337
01:11:38.720 --> 01:11:43.479
<v Speaker 2>The School of American Panatology offers education in thanatology, death work,

1338
01:11:43.880 --> 01:11:48.279
<v Speaker 2>and more so that more people can expand personally and professionally.

1339
01:11:48.720 --> 01:11:53.479
<v Speaker 2>And there are courses on writing, death and spirituality, and thanobotany,

1340
01:11:53.760 --> 01:11:56.319
<v Speaker 2>which is another term that Cold coined to describe the

1341
01:11:56.319 --> 01:11:59.439
<v Speaker 2>way that plants are used in death care and dying

1342
01:11:59.479 --> 01:12:02.439
<v Speaker 2>and a green So yes, learn more about the school

1343
01:12:02.479 --> 01:12:05.720
<v Speaker 2>at Americanthinatology dot com that'll be linked in the show notes.

1344
01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:08.560
<v Speaker 2>Thank you to sponsors for allowing us to make that doney.

1345
01:12:08.800 --> 01:12:11.159
<v Speaker 1>Get value you can't argue with at Tesco with their

1346
01:12:11.199 --> 01:12:14.039
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1347
01:12:14.079 --> 01:12:17.239
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1348
01:12:17.359 --> 01:12:19.840
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1349
01:12:19.960 --> 01:12:22.640
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1350
01:12:22.680 --> 01:12:26.079
<v Speaker 1>Margarito wood fired pizzas served up with their crispy chunkie

1351
01:12:26.159 --> 01:12:28.520
<v Speaker 1>chips and ice cream like sea Salt de caramel or

1352
01:12:28.560 --> 01:12:32.079
<v Speaker 1>pistachio for dessert. Can't argue with that shop in store

1353
01:12:32.199 --> 01:12:36.279
<v Speaker 1>or online Tesco. Every little helps available in most stories.

1354
01:12:36.319 --> 01:12:37.359
<v Speaker 1>Prices vary in express.

1355
01:12:38.520 --> 01:12:43.840
<v Speaker 2>Sure, okay, I'm living. For your questions, Karon wants to

1356
01:12:43.840 --> 01:12:47.079
<v Speaker 2>know how accurate is the expression la patitde more in

1357
01:12:47.159 --> 01:12:49.800
<v Speaker 2>describing an orgasm. He said, I won't be mad if

1358
01:12:49.840 --> 01:12:50.600
<v Speaker 2>you don't ask this.

1359
01:12:50.720 --> 01:12:53.199
<v Speaker 3>Well, actually, let me talk about this for a second.

1360
01:12:53.359 --> 01:12:56.800
<v Speaker 3>So in many Eastern traditions in that world, the Eastern

1361
01:12:56.800 --> 01:13:00.720
<v Speaker 3>tradition teaches that when you're asleep, it is one sixtieth

1362
01:13:00.760 --> 01:13:04.520
<v Speaker 3>of death, and so we actually take yoga to practice death.

1363
01:13:04.920 --> 01:13:07.520
<v Speaker 3>We leave that out in America because Americans don't believe

1364
01:13:07.520 --> 01:13:09.720
<v Speaker 3>they're going to die. But that's why you do the

1365
01:13:09.720 --> 01:13:12.119
<v Speaker 3>physical practice of yoga's to become more comfortable with it.

1366
01:13:12.800 --> 01:13:16.960
<v Speaker 3>When it comes to orgasming, different traditions teach that you

1367
01:13:17.600 --> 01:13:21.560
<v Speaker 3>are between death and full life, Like you drop into

1368
01:13:21.640 --> 01:13:23.720
<v Speaker 3>like this sort of in between state and you become

1369
01:13:23.760 --> 01:13:27.199
<v Speaker 3>more closer to death at that point.

1370
01:13:27.640 --> 01:13:31.239
<v Speaker 2>Really Oh, I mean like yeah, so that's an actual thing.

1371
01:13:31.439 --> 01:13:33.920
<v Speaker 2>That's not just the French being French and dramatic.

1372
01:13:34.239 --> 01:13:38.199
<v Speaker 3>No, I mean yeah, I mean yeah, good question, good question,

1373
01:13:38.279 --> 01:13:39.000
<v Speaker 3>okay points.

1374
01:13:39.479 --> 01:13:41.840
<v Speaker 2>John wants to know what did your parents say when

1375
01:13:41.840 --> 01:13:44.199
<v Speaker 2>you told them you wanted to study death and death

1376
01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:45.119
<v Speaker 2>is in all caps.

1377
01:13:45.199 --> 01:13:46.720
<v Speaker 3>I just want you to know them it's because it's

1378
01:13:46.760 --> 01:13:50.319
<v Speaker 3>scary so and you should fear it. I never asked them,

1379
01:13:50.680 --> 01:13:53.239
<v Speaker 3>I just kind of did it. So.

1380
01:13:53.960 --> 01:13:58.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Mark wants to know with her science, it might

1381
01:13:58.479 --> 01:14:02.000
<v Speaker 2>it be possible for human death to be permanently postponed.

1382
01:14:02.079 --> 01:14:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Is that something we should strive for and if so,

1383
01:14:03.880 --> 01:14:05.920
<v Speaker 2>how will that change us? I think that would make

1384
01:14:06.000 --> 01:14:06.720
<v Speaker 2>us bigger dicks.

1385
01:14:07.319 --> 01:14:10.800
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yes, it would, and dix for the wrong reasons. Like,

1386
01:14:11.279 --> 01:14:13.520
<v Speaker 3>I think from a scientific viewpoint, it's great to be

1387
01:14:13.560 --> 01:14:16.159
<v Speaker 3>able to understand the dynamics of that process. And like

1388
01:14:16.239 --> 01:14:17.920
<v Speaker 3>how that actually works, how you turn it on, turn

1389
01:14:17.960 --> 01:14:20.159
<v Speaker 3>it off. But I don't think for the good of

1390
01:14:20.199 --> 01:14:24.319
<v Speaker 3>society or the world that having a deathless world is good.

1391
01:14:24.560 --> 01:14:26.600
<v Speaker 2>Hery, that's bad too many people.

1392
01:14:26.720 --> 01:14:28.319
<v Speaker 3>And I'm sure I have people who would be like, oh,

1393
01:14:28.439 --> 01:14:30.800
<v Speaker 3>ye're wrong, But that's what I believe. And I've worked

1394
01:14:30.840 --> 01:14:32.199
<v Speaker 3>with death and dying a lot.

1395
01:14:32.159 --> 01:14:35.520
<v Speaker 2>Right, I feel like humans are kind of like a

1396
01:14:36.159 --> 01:14:38.119
<v Speaker 2>cockroach plague on the earth a little bit.

1397
01:14:38.399 --> 01:14:41.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we're in a verny. We're messy. We don't leave

1398
01:14:41.960 --> 01:14:43.399
<v Speaker 3>things better than when we found them.

1399
01:14:43.600 --> 01:14:46.279
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, we gotta die off or else we can't

1400
01:14:46.279 --> 01:14:50.000
<v Speaker 2>make room for new people. Right. Phoebe wants to know

1401
01:14:50.319 --> 01:14:52.800
<v Speaker 2>sell death being what it is. Is there a layman's

1402
01:14:52.920 --> 01:14:55.840
<v Speaker 2>terms short version of how the chemicals used in funery

1403
01:14:56.279 --> 01:15:00.000
<v Speaker 2>prep postponed the decomposition process till after our weird open

1404
01:15:00.159 --> 01:15:03.760
<v Speaker 2>cast funeral rites. Yeah, so she's asking, with cell death,

1405
01:15:05.399 --> 01:15:09.560
<v Speaker 2>how do the chemicals postpone decomposition? How do they do that?

1406
01:15:09.960 --> 01:15:15.000
<v Speaker 3>So it's it's chemistry basically. So okay, so when you die,

1407
01:15:15.199 --> 01:15:17.600
<v Speaker 3>like your skin and all that stuff like dehydrates. Okay,

1408
01:15:17.720 --> 01:15:19.880
<v Speaker 3>like if you're doing a bombing, your blood is drained

1409
01:15:19.920 --> 01:15:23.079
<v Speaker 3>out and it goes down the drain, okay, into the sewer,

1410
01:15:23.279 --> 01:15:26.359
<v Speaker 3>just like your pa and your poop does. Really yeah,

1411
01:15:26.479 --> 01:15:29.279
<v Speaker 3>and the water treatment plants process all that out just

1412
01:15:29.279 --> 01:15:31.960
<v Speaker 3>like they process out pea and poop and whatever the

1413
01:15:31.960 --> 01:15:34.239
<v Speaker 3>heck else do you flush down there? It's also blood

1414
01:15:34.720 --> 01:15:39.319
<v Speaker 3>right good, yep. So that's step one, step two. Then

1415
01:15:39.399 --> 01:15:42.399
<v Speaker 3>depending on how you died. So like if you if

1416
01:15:42.399 --> 01:15:44.520
<v Speaker 3>you were jaundiced, when you die, you're gonna have yellow

1417
01:15:44.560 --> 01:15:49.039
<v Speaker 3>casts to your skin. Well, there's embombing chemicals and ingredients

1418
01:15:49.279 --> 01:15:52.399
<v Speaker 3>that are designed to counteract that so that you don't

1419
01:15:52.439 --> 01:15:55.640
<v Speaker 3>look yellow when you were in your casket.

1420
01:15:55.720 --> 01:15:57.520
<v Speaker 2>Right now, you've got to look good. This is the

1421
01:15:57.560 --> 01:15:59.079
<v Speaker 2>last time some of these people are going to see you.

1422
01:15:59.439 --> 01:16:01.760
<v Speaker 3>That's right, because we are vain. Even when we're not

1423
01:16:02.359 --> 01:16:04.600
<v Speaker 3>that we're vain. We just know that we want.

1424
01:16:04.439 --> 01:16:05.159
<v Speaker 2>To continue that.

1425
01:16:05.640 --> 01:16:09.960
<v Speaker 3>You go, yeah, So this mixture is made. In the mixture,

1426
01:16:10.119 --> 01:16:14.039
<v Speaker 3>it's a chemical reaction, but it rehydrates the skin so

1427
01:16:14.079 --> 01:16:18.159
<v Speaker 3>that it doesn't so you don't look dead. And then

1428
01:16:18.159 --> 01:16:20.319
<v Speaker 3>it also corrects it can like do things like color

1429
01:16:20.359 --> 01:16:24.279
<v Speaker 3>correct or counteract whatever made you be dead.

1430
01:16:24.800 --> 01:16:28.680
<v Speaker 2>Whatever made you be dead. Yeah, cause of death. The

1431
01:16:28.720 --> 01:16:34.800
<v Speaker 2>thing that made me be dead. Yeah, let me see, oh, Jennifer,

1432
01:16:35.000 --> 01:16:37.760
<v Speaker 2>is a great question, Jennifer. I keep hearing that when

1433
01:16:37.800 --> 01:16:40.359
<v Speaker 2>you die, the same chemical in ayahuasca is released into

1434
01:16:40.359 --> 01:16:43.279
<v Speaker 2>your body by your brain. Are we really all tripping

1435
01:16:43.439 --> 01:16:44.239
<v Speaker 2>when we die?

1436
01:16:45.000 --> 01:16:50.159
<v Speaker 3>Dimethyl tripped to mean aka d MT? So ayahuasca is that?

1437
01:16:50.159 --> 01:16:54.079
<v Speaker 3>How say it? Ayahuasca that has DMT in it plus

1438
01:16:54.119 --> 01:16:58.239
<v Speaker 3>other stuff? Right now, the pinial gland and the brain

1439
01:16:59.680 --> 01:17:03.199
<v Speaker 3>makes DMT basically like we make a little bit of

1440
01:17:03.239 --> 01:17:07.319
<v Speaker 3>that and then that's what makes us dream. Wow, next level,

1441
01:17:07.439 --> 01:17:12.439
<v Speaker 3>our bodies are when you die. As far as I'm aware,

1442
01:17:12.479 --> 01:17:14.760
<v Speaker 3>and I'm sure someone would will post to correct me

1443
01:17:14.760 --> 01:17:20.239
<v Speaker 3>if I'm wrong, your body does release DMT okay, and

1444
01:17:20.399 --> 01:17:23.119
<v Speaker 3>other stuff. Like, there's sort of chemical things that happen.

1445
01:17:24.399 --> 01:17:26.479
<v Speaker 3>So this idea of if you're like, are you tripping

1446
01:17:26.479 --> 01:17:28.039
<v Speaker 3>when you die? Well, keep in mind that all of

1447
01:17:28.079 --> 01:17:31.680
<v Speaker 3>your senses have probably if you're dying sort of naturally,

1448
01:17:32.039 --> 01:17:35.279
<v Speaker 3>your senses will have shut down. So if you have

1449
01:17:35.399 --> 01:17:39.279
<v Speaker 3>ever tripped as a living person, you know you had

1450
01:17:39.520 --> 01:17:43.640
<v Speaker 3>sensory input happening when you're dying, and at the moment

1451
01:17:43.680 --> 01:17:46.760
<v Speaker 3>of death, you're not going to be physically where you

1452
01:17:46.840 --> 01:17:49.720
<v Speaker 3>were when you were tripping and alive. So it's not

1453
01:17:49.760 --> 01:17:51.560
<v Speaker 3>going to be the same thing. It doesn't function the

1454
01:17:51.560 --> 01:17:52.760
<v Speaker 3>same way. Does that make sense right?

1455
01:17:52.800 --> 01:17:57.359
<v Speaker 2>Because you're not at Bonnaroo using all of your faculties. Yes,

1456
01:17:57.439 --> 01:18:00.399
<v Speaker 2>you're somewhere much more quiet without those faculties, So I

1457
01:18:00.439 --> 01:18:01.800
<v Speaker 2>get it. So it's kind of like if you had

1458
01:18:01.800 --> 01:18:06.119
<v Speaker 2>a kaleidoscope, but you had less input into the kaleidoscope.

1459
01:18:05.720 --> 01:18:07.439
<v Speaker 3>You know. And the thing is that we don't really

1460
01:18:07.520 --> 01:18:10.680
<v Speaker 3>know what's happening there. But I look at that and

1461
01:18:10.680 --> 01:18:12.640
<v Speaker 3>I keep in mind that, like, our bodies are not

1462
01:18:12.720 --> 01:18:15.279
<v Speaker 3>functioning the same way then they normally do, so it's

1463
01:18:15.319 --> 01:18:15.960
<v Speaker 3>going to be different.

1464
01:18:16.119 --> 01:18:19.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay, you're not like a burning man. You're definitely not

1465
01:18:19.119 --> 01:18:21.880
<v Speaker 2>at burning man. Blake wants to know, is there any

1466
01:18:21.880 --> 01:18:25.760
<v Speaker 2>truth to involuntary body movements after death, like bodies sitting

1467
01:18:25.840 --> 01:18:29.279
<v Speaker 2>up and muscle twitching and groaning and stuff like that.

1468
01:18:29.640 --> 01:18:32.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay, like the sitting up thing, I've never heard

1469
01:18:32.159 --> 01:18:34.119
<v Speaker 3>of that actually happening, But like a like a like

1470
01:18:34.159 --> 01:18:40.960
<v Speaker 3>a like a ressing that happens. That's not uncommon because

1471
01:18:41.239 --> 01:18:43.079
<v Speaker 3>depending on how you die or what you die of,

1472
01:18:43.159 --> 01:18:45.319
<v Speaker 3>there can be like a pocket of air or something

1473
01:18:45.359 --> 01:18:49.359
<v Speaker 3>that comes out, but it's not. I mean, it's just

1474
01:18:49.399 --> 01:18:51.760
<v Speaker 3>like sometimes it's the result of just moving the body

1475
01:18:51.800 --> 01:18:55.640
<v Speaker 3>around or shifting it. Okay, so yeah, I've never heard

1476
01:18:55.680 --> 01:19:00.520
<v Speaker 3>of like somebody sitting up in actuality. And I hang

1477
01:19:00.520 --> 01:19:03.239
<v Speaker 3>out with a lot of funeral wreckers, So you guys,

1478
01:19:03.960 --> 01:19:05.119
<v Speaker 3>yeah you got the goods.

1479
01:19:05.199 --> 01:19:07.680
<v Speaker 2>I did hear that that a friend of mine and

1480
01:19:07.720 --> 01:19:11.279
<v Speaker 2>her fiance were at his grandmother's funeral and they went

1481
01:19:11.359 --> 01:19:14.079
<v Speaker 2>up to the casket and they both swear they heard

1482
01:19:14.079 --> 01:19:20.439
<v Speaker 2>her breathe like a interesting. I don't know. I am

1483
01:19:20.560 --> 01:19:23.279
<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent not a doctor, but I'm gonna guess

1484
01:19:24.079 --> 01:19:26.960
<v Speaker 2>that this sound is kind of akin to the breeze

1485
01:19:28.000 --> 01:19:32.079
<v Speaker 2>passing through a flute, just the gentle song of happenstance

1486
01:19:33.239 --> 01:19:35.880
<v Speaker 2>and Stephanie had a question. She wanted to know if

1487
01:19:36.920 --> 01:19:38.600
<v Speaker 2>and this is funny because I know her and her

1488
01:19:38.600 --> 01:19:42.199
<v Speaker 2>birthdays on Halloween. She wants to know if you find

1489
01:19:42.560 --> 01:19:47.520
<v Speaker 2>the Halloween like kind of not irritating, but what your

1490
01:19:47.560 --> 01:19:50.920
<v Speaker 2>stance is on Halloween because it's such a like macabre holiday,

1491
01:19:50.960 --> 01:19:53.239
<v Speaker 2>but you deal with a lot of the themes that

1492
01:19:53.279 --> 01:19:56.079
<v Speaker 2>we explore one day year in your daily life, Like

1493
01:19:56.239 --> 01:19:59.039
<v Speaker 2>how do you feel about Halloween? And how macab it is.

1494
01:19:59.279 --> 01:20:02.520
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I joy Halloween. A lot of people within

1495
01:20:03.279 --> 01:20:05.159
<v Speaker 3>the death and dying world, whether they work in like

1496
01:20:05.199 --> 01:20:08.560
<v Speaker 3>the funeral side, or they're like even like hospice workers

1497
01:20:08.640 --> 01:20:12.079
<v Speaker 3>or something, there's a lot of people that like love

1498
01:20:12.239 --> 01:20:15.680
<v Speaker 3>it and they live for Halloween. And I appreciate that,

1499
01:20:15.720 --> 01:20:17.479
<v Speaker 3>and I like Halloween, but I'm not obsessed with it,

1500
01:20:18.319 --> 01:20:20.560
<v Speaker 3>like honestly, it's just like a I give it a

1501
01:20:20.560 --> 01:20:23.399
<v Speaker 3>C plus in terms of holidays and my like calendar

1502
01:20:23.399 --> 01:20:23.920
<v Speaker 3>of events.

1503
01:20:24.159 --> 01:20:25.359
<v Speaker 2>What's right holiday?

1504
01:20:25.560 --> 01:20:30.520
<v Speaker 3>So I love yon Kippour. I'm Jewish and that's the

1505
01:20:30.560 --> 01:20:32.560
<v Speaker 3>day of atonement, so where it's where you like think

1506
01:20:32.560 --> 01:20:34.359
<v Speaker 3>about what you did. And obviously, because I deal with

1507
01:20:34.399 --> 01:20:36.960
<v Speaker 3>death and dying, I really enjoy the opportunity every year

1508
01:20:37.000 --> 01:20:41.119
<v Speaker 3>to like really think about what I did. Also I'm

1509
01:20:41.119 --> 01:20:44.720
<v Speaker 3>a little bit intense, So I love yon Kipour. Anyway, Halloween.

1510
01:20:45.279 --> 01:20:47.600
<v Speaker 3>And what's interesting probably if you met me, because you

1511
01:20:47.640 --> 01:20:51.960
<v Speaker 3>only are hearing me, I do not like dressing all black,

1512
01:20:52.039 --> 01:20:56.239
<v Speaker 3>and I'm not like, like you're not uber goth, you

1513
01:20:56.279 --> 01:20:58.199
<v Speaker 3>probably wouldn't look at me and know that I'm like

1514
01:20:58.920 --> 01:21:00.520
<v Speaker 3>death person or what I right.

1515
01:21:00.479 --> 01:21:02.279
<v Speaker 2>I would think you're a graphic design or an.

1516
01:21:02.199 --> 01:21:05.560
<v Speaker 3>Artists, like a design person. Yeah so yeah, I like

1517
01:21:05.600 --> 01:21:08.600
<v Speaker 3>and appreciate Halloween. How it is not my number one.

1518
01:21:09.720 --> 01:21:13.079
<v Speaker 2>So what's scarier than Halloween? It's being a pansy. Now

1519
01:21:13.119 --> 01:21:15.479
<v Speaker 2>Here is where I casually shower Cole with wonder and

1520
01:21:15.520 --> 01:21:17.920
<v Speaker 2>praise about all the things she's gotten done in her life.

1521
01:21:18.079 --> 01:21:20.600
<v Speaker 2>I do feel like knowing your life you're getting you

1522
01:21:20.720 --> 01:21:23.399
<v Speaker 2>have gotten the most out of it. I think that

1523
01:21:23.760 --> 01:21:27.640
<v Speaker 2>if anything, you're your proximity to death and dying shows

1524
01:21:27.720 --> 01:21:29.640
<v Speaker 2>in how you choose to live your life and all

1525
01:21:29.640 --> 01:21:31.279
<v Speaker 2>the things that you're so passionate about and what you've

1526
01:21:31.359 --> 01:21:34.159
<v Speaker 2>learned and what you've done. And you know, that's a

1527
01:21:34.199 --> 01:21:36.359
<v Speaker 2>lot of people I don't think would take that risk,

1528
01:21:36.399 --> 01:21:38.279
<v Speaker 2>probably because they're just like, oh me, I'm not going

1529
01:21:38.319 --> 01:21:40.000
<v Speaker 2>to die. I'm a life forever, and I'm also going

1530
01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:41.720
<v Speaker 2>to win the lot of Ye we're off, we're off.

1531
01:21:41.760 --> 01:21:44.239
<v Speaker 3>A lot of people just are like waiting for the

1532
01:21:44.319 --> 01:21:47.560
<v Speaker 3>thing to discover them, right, and it doesn't work that way,

1533
01:21:47.760 --> 01:21:51.880
<v Speaker 3>and doesn't Dying is not to be feared. It's the living,

1534
01:21:52.079 --> 01:21:56.600
<v Speaker 3>like fear your life choices. That's where the fear can

1535
01:21:56.640 --> 01:21:58.600
<v Speaker 3>come from, you know, and the fear of like like

1536
01:21:59.159 --> 01:22:01.439
<v Speaker 3>not like what happened if you don't do the thing

1537
01:22:02.199 --> 01:22:03.239
<v Speaker 3>that you've been wanting to.

1538
01:22:03.199 --> 01:22:04.560
<v Speaker 2>Do, that's so real.

1539
01:22:05.439 --> 01:22:07.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, like you are true. You owe it to yourself

1540
01:22:07.800 --> 01:22:09.520
<v Speaker 3>to do that, and you owe it to everyone that

1541
01:22:09.560 --> 01:22:12.239
<v Speaker 3>came before you to do that. You owe it to

1542
01:22:12.279 --> 01:22:14.800
<v Speaker 3>the world, You owe it to us to be who

1543
01:22:14.800 --> 01:22:15.640
<v Speaker 3>you're supposed to be.

1544
01:22:17.000 --> 01:22:20.119
<v Speaker 2>And what is your will go least favorite to favorite,

1545
01:22:20.199 --> 01:22:23.199
<v Speaker 2>your least favorite thing about your job. And it could

1546
01:22:23.199 --> 01:22:26.960
<v Speaker 2>be anything. It could be like an early hours, could

1547
01:22:26.960 --> 01:22:28.399
<v Speaker 2>be being on call, anything.

1548
01:22:28.640 --> 01:22:30.840
<v Speaker 3>Not a fan of email, not a fan of email.

1549
01:22:31.079 --> 01:22:33.199
<v Speaker 3>It's like real hard for me to just I just

1550
01:22:33.399 --> 01:22:35.640
<v Speaker 3>because it's like I want to be talking to people,

1551
01:22:35.680 --> 01:22:38.159
<v Speaker 3>and I just I really don't like email. I don't

1552
01:22:38.199 --> 01:22:40.079
<v Speaker 3>appreciate it. I don't enjoy it. I don't want it

1553
01:22:40.079 --> 01:22:40.600
<v Speaker 3>in my life.

1554
01:22:40.840 --> 01:22:44.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so I love it as someone who deals with corpses,

1555
01:22:45.279 --> 01:22:46.720
<v Speaker 2>the worst thing is email.

1556
01:22:47.520 --> 01:22:50.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, what's your favorite.

1557
01:22:50.159 --> 01:22:52.039
<v Speaker 2>Thing about the job or favorite moment on a job,

1558
01:22:52.119 --> 01:22:54.760
<v Speaker 2>or or the thing that really gets you out of

1559
01:22:54.800 --> 01:22:55.399
<v Speaker 2>bed in the morning.

1560
01:22:57.159 --> 01:23:00.279
<v Speaker 3>A lot of times it's I don't know what it is.

1561
01:23:00.319 --> 01:23:02.560
<v Speaker 3>I think I have radar or something or like a

1562
01:23:02.600 --> 01:23:06.279
<v Speaker 3>beacon that is sending out, but I can be in

1563
01:23:06.319 --> 01:23:12.199
<v Speaker 3>an immediate, deep, intense conversation involving tears with somebody I

1564
01:23:12.600 --> 01:23:15.800
<v Speaker 3>just met in a heartbeat, and it is because of

1565
01:23:15.840 --> 01:23:19.279
<v Speaker 3>my work and death and dying. One time I was in.

1566
01:23:20.000 --> 01:23:22.720
<v Speaker 2>I took out the name of the museum at Cole's request,

1567
01:23:23.119 --> 01:23:27.039
<v Speaker 2>just in case, just to keep identities private. Also small

1568
01:23:27.119 --> 01:23:31.119
<v Speaker 2>content warning. It does involve the mention of dying by suicide,

1569
01:23:31.319 --> 01:23:33.720
<v Speaker 2>which side note, in the last five years, dying by

1570
01:23:33.720 --> 01:23:36.720
<v Speaker 2>suicide has become the preferred expression over the one that

1571
01:23:36.760 --> 01:23:40.760
<v Speaker 2>we used previously. But yes, so let's pretend for the

1572
01:23:40.800 --> 01:23:46.439
<v Speaker 2>sake of anonymity that she was at the British Lawnmower Museum,

1573
01:23:46.760 --> 01:23:48.279
<v Speaker 2>which is a real place.

1574
01:23:48.079 --> 01:23:51.640
<v Speaker 3>Which is a fantastic museum. And I got my ticket

1575
01:23:51.720 --> 01:23:53.199
<v Speaker 3>and I went to go upstairs, and the guy that

1576
01:23:53.279 --> 01:23:55.760
<v Speaker 3>takes the tickets he was like always like you have

1577
01:23:55.840 --> 01:23:57.800
<v Speaker 3>interesting Harry, you an artist. So I'm like no. When

1578
01:23:57.840 --> 01:23:59.600
<v Speaker 3>I was trying to go upstairs, He's like, who are you?

1579
01:23:59.640 --> 01:24:00.880
<v Speaker 3>What do you do? And I was like, oh, I

1580
01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:05.520
<v Speaker 3>actually work in death and dying, and he like stone

1581
01:24:05.560 --> 01:24:08.960
<v Speaker 3>cold face. All of a sudden, he goes, my best

1582
01:24:08.960 --> 01:24:14.119
<v Speaker 3>friend committed suicide recently, and I almost didn't come to

1583
01:24:14.199 --> 01:24:17.600
<v Speaker 3>work today because I've been struggling, and I was able

1584
01:24:17.600 --> 01:24:21.720
<v Speaker 3>to immediately talk to this individual for well over thirty minutes.

1585
01:24:22.119 --> 01:24:26.039
<v Speaker 3>But I wouldn't have had that wonderful opportunity to connect

1586
01:24:26.039 --> 01:24:29.359
<v Speaker 3>with that gentleman who was feeling very alone if I

1587
01:24:29.399 --> 01:24:31.439
<v Speaker 3>didn't work in death and dying and have this training

1588
01:24:31.479 --> 01:24:35.000
<v Speaker 3>and danatology and all this kind of stuff. And for that,

1589
01:24:35.159 --> 01:24:39.000
<v Speaker 3>I'm incredibly grateful because being alone is the worst thing

1590
01:24:39.159 --> 01:24:41.359
<v Speaker 3>in the world for anybody, and a lot of times

1591
01:24:41.439 --> 01:24:44.880
<v Speaker 3>people feel alone with stuff related to loss, and there's

1592
01:24:44.920 --> 01:24:47.039
<v Speaker 3>so few people in the world that are equipped or

1593
01:24:47.079 --> 01:24:50.800
<v Speaker 3>comfortable to be present for that. You know, we want

1594
01:24:50.800 --> 01:24:54.000
<v Speaker 3>to push it away. So that's some example of something

1595
01:24:54.039 --> 01:24:56.600
<v Speaker 3>I love, which is intense and sad but overall great.

1596
01:24:56.840 --> 01:25:00.439
<v Speaker 2>So it's funny because I'm leaving this conversation much more

1597
01:25:00.520 --> 01:25:01.720
<v Speaker 2>cheerful than I thought I would be.

1598
01:25:01.880 --> 01:25:05.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I was like, that's good.

1599
01:25:05.279 --> 01:25:07.000
<v Speaker 2>I was ready to start. I was like, no, I'm

1600
01:25:07.000 --> 01:25:09.640
<v Speaker 2>probably gonna end up super scared and bawling, and I'm not.

1601
01:25:09.760 --> 01:25:12.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, oh, I just had to live instead of

1602
01:25:12.359 --> 01:25:14.439
<v Speaker 2>fearing death. Yeah, I just have to get more excited

1603
01:25:14.479 --> 01:25:15.520
<v Speaker 2>about actually being alive.

1604
01:25:15.800 --> 01:25:18.439
<v Speaker 3>Yeap every time you encounter death in some way, it

1605
01:25:18.520 --> 01:25:21.359
<v Speaker 3>is an opportunity to choose to live. Mm hm, it

1606
01:25:21.439 --> 01:25:21.800
<v Speaker 3>really is.

1607
01:25:22.199 --> 01:25:24.880
<v Speaker 2>I have a feeling you're going to be America's favorite panatologist.

1608
01:25:25.000 --> 01:25:26.279
<v Speaker 2>That's the goal, at.

1609
01:25:26.239 --> 01:25:28.039
<v Speaker 3>Least the only purple haired one that I know of.

1610
01:25:30.279 --> 01:25:34.520
<v Speaker 2>As she left, Cole handed me a ziploc bag and

1611
01:25:34.560 --> 01:25:39.760
<v Speaker 2>in it were five freshly baked, fucking delicious sugar cookies,

1612
01:25:39.800 --> 01:25:43.000
<v Speaker 2>and she said, I can't help it, I'm Midwestern. She

1613
01:25:43.079 --> 01:25:45.920
<v Speaker 2>also gave me a pen that she had specially printed

1614
01:25:45.960 --> 01:25:50.199
<v Speaker 2>with type inspired by vintage gravestone fonts, and it's just

1615
01:25:50.239 --> 01:25:54.600
<v Speaker 2>a simple black clickie clickpen bearing the words I don't

1616
01:25:54.640 --> 01:25:57.520
<v Speaker 2>have time for bullshit. We parted ways and I went

1617
01:25:57.600 --> 01:26:00.119
<v Speaker 2>upstairs in my room. I ate more than one one

1618
01:26:00.159 --> 01:26:02.399
<v Speaker 2>of the cookies, and then I just I wished this

1619
01:26:02.600 --> 01:26:05.840
<v Speaker 2>chick lived in California. Twenty twenty two updates. So this

1620
01:26:06.000 --> 01:26:09.920
<v Speaker 2>chick moved to California a few months ago. We lured

1621
01:26:10.000 --> 01:26:13.680
<v Speaker 2>her out here for a visit for our wedding last July,

1622
01:26:14.000 --> 01:26:16.319
<v Speaker 2>and she and Victor Dugett so much. She called me

1623
01:26:16.399 --> 01:26:18.720
<v Speaker 2>up to be like, I have to tell you something,

1624
01:26:18.760 --> 01:26:20.479
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, what happened? What happened. She's like,

1625
01:26:20.640 --> 01:26:23.279
<v Speaker 2>we're moving out to LA I lost my mind. I

1626
01:26:23.319 --> 01:26:27.279
<v Speaker 2>screamed into the phone so loud. They moved west people.

1627
01:26:27.399 --> 01:26:31.039
<v Speaker 2>It rules. She also started a pickleball league here of

1628
01:26:31.079 --> 01:26:33.319
<v Speaker 2>which I'm a member. I love her so much, so

1629
01:26:33.439 --> 01:26:35.279
<v Speaker 2>listen to the miniesode coming out in a few days

1630
01:26:35.319 --> 01:26:37.119
<v Speaker 2>for more on all of that and what she's been

1631
01:26:37.159 --> 01:26:40.359
<v Speaker 2>up to and what it was like to lure her

1632
01:26:40.399 --> 01:26:42.279
<v Speaker 2>to a different state and make her be my friend,

1633
01:26:42.560 --> 01:26:45.439
<v Speaker 2>to befriend her digitally and learn about her school. You

1634
01:26:45.479 --> 01:26:48.680
<v Speaker 2>can see Americanthantatology dot com. I will put more links

1635
01:26:48.720 --> 01:26:51.560
<v Speaker 2>up on my website at alliworn dot com, slash ologies,

1636
01:26:51.920 --> 01:26:55.560
<v Speaker 2>slash Panatology, Encore. That link is right in the show notes,

1637
01:26:55.680 --> 01:26:58.079
<v Speaker 2>you don't have to write anything down, along with links

1638
01:26:58.079 --> 01:27:01.119
<v Speaker 2>to Cole's work and social media hand so much more.

1639
01:27:01.359 --> 01:27:06.159
<v Speaker 2>Check out her website Hellocole dot com. She's on Instagram

1640
01:27:06.239 --> 01:27:10.039
<v Speaker 2>as just In Perry. She's on Twitter as Cole and Perry.

1641
01:27:10.960 --> 01:27:13.439
<v Speaker 2>So I hope as you listen to this that you

1642
01:27:13.479 --> 01:27:15.720
<v Speaker 2>walked away with some kind of new appreciation for being

1643
01:27:15.760 --> 01:27:20.199
<v Speaker 2>not dead. I mean, confront death, plan for it, talk

1644
01:27:20.239 --> 01:27:24.199
<v Speaker 2>about it, accept it, but don't fear it. It doesn't

1645
01:27:24.199 --> 01:27:27.359
<v Speaker 2>make our lives any better while we're living them, so

1646
01:27:27.560 --> 01:27:30.640
<v Speaker 2>thanks for listening. Thank you to everyone supporting on Patreon.

1647
01:27:30.720 --> 01:27:33.560
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate every single one of you. You make this

1648
01:27:34.079 --> 01:27:37.680
<v Speaker 2>self produced passion of mine and reality. And if I

1649
01:27:37.760 --> 01:27:40.920
<v Speaker 2>had died without doing it, my life would have been

1650
01:27:40.960 --> 01:27:44.039
<v Speaker 2>dimmer and I would have choked on regret. So thank

1651
01:27:44.079 --> 01:27:47.520
<v Speaker 2>you for making Ologies real. It changes my life on

1652
01:27:47.560 --> 01:27:50.680
<v Speaker 2>a daily basis. Twenty twenty two me again, thank you

1653
01:27:50.680 --> 01:27:53.720
<v Speaker 2>so much for listening. Thank you Aaron Talbert for admitting

1654
01:27:53.760 --> 01:27:56.880
<v Speaker 2>the Ologies podcast Facebook group with assists from Bonnie Dutch

1655
01:27:57.279 --> 01:27:59.840
<v Speaker 2>and Shannon Faults of the podcast You are That. Thank

1656
01:27:59.840 --> 01:28:02.239
<v Speaker 2>you Bonnie and Shannon for the extra help in the

1657
01:28:02.239 --> 01:28:04.840
<v Speaker 2>Facebook group as Aaron Mooren's the loss this week of

1658
01:28:04.840 --> 01:28:07.880
<v Speaker 2>her brother and Lass Scott, so he's in our thoughts too.

1659
01:28:07.960 --> 01:28:10.199
<v Speaker 2>And thank you to Susan Hale for handling merch and

1660
01:28:10.279 --> 01:28:12.479
<v Speaker 2>so much more. Thank you to all Dilworth for all

1661
01:28:12.520 --> 01:28:15.279
<v Speaker 2>the scheduling help. Kelly ar Dwyer makes our website can

1662
01:28:15.319 --> 01:28:17.960
<v Speaker 2>make yours too, Emily White of the Wordery handles our

1663
01:28:18.000 --> 01:28:21.279
<v Speaker 2>professional transcripts and Caleb Patten bleeps them and those are

1664
01:28:21.359 --> 01:28:23.279
<v Speaker 2>up for free at our website at alibar dot com

1665
01:28:23.279 --> 01:28:26.479
<v Speaker 2>slash Ologieslash Extras that's also linked to the show notes.

1666
01:28:27.000 --> 01:28:31.119
<v Speaker 2>We have free kid friendly, all ages friendly episodes called

1667
01:28:31.199 --> 01:28:34.399
<v Speaker 2>smologies in this main feed. You can download them all

1668
01:28:34.600 --> 01:28:37.199
<v Speaker 2>you can listen with all ages. Thank you Zeke read Vegas,

1669
01:28:37.199 --> 01:28:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Thomas and Mercedes Maitland of Mind gem Media for heading

1670
01:28:39.800 --> 01:28:42.479
<v Speaker 2>that up with assists from Stephen Ray Morris and to

1671
01:28:42.520 --> 01:28:44.119
<v Speaker 2>the man who has got me through the last few

1672
01:28:44.119 --> 01:28:48.960
<v Speaker 2>months and also edits the episode, Jared Sleeper, Thank you

1673
01:28:49.079 --> 01:28:51.479
<v Speaker 2>for everything. Nick Thorburn made the music, and if you

1674
01:28:51.600 --> 01:28:53.119
<v Speaker 2>listen for the end of the show, I tell you

1675
01:28:53.239 --> 01:28:55.960
<v Speaker 2>secret this week. The secret is I really do not

1676
01:28:56.199 --> 01:28:59.600
<v Speaker 2>know what this grief and death experience would have been

1677
01:28:59.640 --> 01:29:03.880
<v Speaker 2>like without having Call in my life. I cannot imagine it.

1678
01:29:03.960 --> 01:29:07.640
<v Speaker 2>Her work is so important. I just I'm so lucky.

1679
01:29:08.119 --> 01:29:10.159
<v Speaker 2>The miniesod will have a lot of advice if you're

1680
01:29:10.159 --> 01:29:12.520
<v Speaker 2>going through something similar, or if you're grieving, or if

1681
01:29:12.520 --> 01:29:14.960
<v Speaker 2>you're anticipating that. So I'm going to spill my soul

1682
01:29:15.000 --> 01:29:17.560
<v Speaker 2>out in that in hopes that it helps you a

1683
01:29:17.600 --> 01:29:20.039
<v Speaker 2>wee bit. Some things that I learned, some things that

1684
01:29:20.079 --> 01:29:22.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad that I went through. Another secret is that

1685
01:29:22.439 --> 01:29:26.479
<v Speaker 2>the last few weeks of bereavement leave I took was

1686
01:29:26.760 --> 01:29:30.359
<v Speaker 2>the least I've worked in the past twenty years. And

1687
01:29:31.039 --> 01:29:33.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, even though it was filled with obituary writing

1688
01:29:33.760 --> 01:29:38.000
<v Speaker 2>and funeral arrangements and crying into the darkness and having

1689
01:29:38.039 --> 01:29:40.720
<v Speaker 2>to take care of some other work things on the side,

1690
01:29:41.319 --> 01:29:43.399
<v Speaker 2>the whole thing has really inspired me more than ever

1691
01:29:43.520 --> 01:29:46.039
<v Speaker 2>just to have a better life work balance, because even

1692
01:29:46.039 --> 01:29:48.319
<v Speaker 2>if you are doing your dream job, which I am

1693
01:29:48.720 --> 01:29:51.520
<v Speaker 2>times a thousand. I would like to do this job

1694
01:29:51.640 --> 01:29:54.640
<v Speaker 2>until I am in the earth, but you still have

1695
01:29:54.680 --> 01:29:56.760
<v Speaker 2>to live a little while you're on this side of

1696
01:29:56.760 --> 01:29:59.199
<v Speaker 2>the grass, as my dad used to say, because we're

1697
01:29:59.199 --> 01:30:00.479
<v Speaker 2>all going to die one day, so you got to

1698
01:30:00.560 --> 01:30:03.640
<v Speaker 2>enjoy it a little bit and just fuck off and

1699
01:30:03.720 --> 01:30:06.520
<v Speaker 2>do stupid stuff and make collashes out of old magazines

1700
01:30:06.560 --> 01:30:08.840
<v Speaker 2>and pot some plants in the backyard and stuff. So

1701
01:30:09.560 --> 01:30:11.039
<v Speaker 2>text your crush.

1702
01:30:11.159 --> 01:30:11.560
<v Speaker 3>I did.

1703
01:30:11.840 --> 01:30:14.720
<v Speaker 2>I ended up marrying him, And you know what, cut banks,

1704
01:30:15.600 --> 01:30:17.640
<v Speaker 2>Do what you gotta do. I followed my own advice

1705
01:30:17.680 --> 01:30:19.800
<v Speaker 2>on that last night, and you know what, I cut

1706
01:30:19.800 --> 01:30:22.960
<v Speaker 2>some banks. I'm loving them. Okay. More grief advice and

1707
01:30:23.000 --> 01:30:26.039
<v Speaker 2>updates in the minisod, including my tips on had a

1708
01:30:26.039 --> 01:30:29.960
<v Speaker 2>handle bawling at a funeral and saying no to people

1709
01:30:30.039 --> 01:30:32.920
<v Speaker 2>who want you to do things when you can't. But

1710
01:30:32.960 --> 01:30:35.439
<v Speaker 2>you are great. Go enjoy the breeze or a sunset,

1711
01:30:35.960 --> 01:30:39.359
<v Speaker 2>or have a tiny ice cream cone and toast to Grandpod.

1712
01:30:39.520 --> 01:30:54.199
<v Speaker 2>He loved those. Okay, bye bye