Speaker 1: It's time to celebrate the previous team sport known to man,
where modern day gladiators collide for all the glory on
the grid. I let's talk some college football, a lot
Cougar Sports with Ben Crittle.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Cougar Sports here one O three nine
ninety eight three esp and the fan right off the
three man we were here. I have Andrew Peterson by
my side as well a cable excuse me. Caleb Lyons
got the technical difficulties figured out. Hopefully there's no echo
anybody's part in the car now. I think everybody's gonna
be well, so we figured it out. Appreciate our production
crew getting that worked out for us here ESPN. The
fan of filling in today. For Ben Crittle, I mean
he's out taking care of some business. He'll be back
on Monday. Promise he'll be back. Whether it's a glorious
weekend or whether it's going to be a heartbreaking weekend.
A lot of people are predicting glorious weekend for sure,
that's what I'm predicting as well. Broadcasting from our studios
here in Salt Lake City. Caleb Liones is down there
at our bandwellth studios appreciate ap showing up and showing
out this college football segment as all of them are
brought to you by Dental Proso Utah dot com. If
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skeltule your appointment to they. Right, let's get into some
college football news. Wanted to discuss all the things related.
I don't know if you guys saw this but this
was put out by Yahoo Sports. Want to get your
thoughts on it. College football targeted rule could be headed
for overhaul, but it's not going away. This is put
out by Ross Dellan. During the National Championship game last week,
one team played the first half without a key defensive player.
Miami quarterback Xavier Lucas spent the first two quarter sideline
as part of a targeting foul he committed in the
second half of the previous game, a semi final one
over ole miss. The foul cost Miami fifteen yards in penalties,
as we know, and Lucas was disqualified from the final
three defensive drives and the drives of the semi final,
and in a carryover disqualification keptain from playing the first
half of the biggest game of his career guys, the
National Championship out against Indiana. Miami head coach Mario Christobal
described the foul and punishment as unjust. Before I refurther
into it and we discussed this. I'll start with UAP
and then we'll go to Caleb. Is it unjust this
like it's a targeting foul regardless of the game. I
understand where Mario crystaball is coming from somewhere. The coaches
might be, hey, it's a national championship, he's got to play.
But rules are rules, question mark, ap.
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's hard to say. Okay.
Speaker 4: As the rule is written, it's very just, and I
agree with like, you can't just let a player off
just because it's it's the national champion.
Speaker 2: Why can't I it's a national championship.
Speaker 4: Well it was. It was targeting. Let's be real the
rule itself. I like the way it's improved where you
don't have to leave the stadium.
Speaker 3: I would like.
Speaker 4: To see it reduced even just a little bit more,
and that I don't think. I don't think it should
carry over to another game, unless.
Speaker 2: So if it happens in the fourth quarter on the finals.
Speaker 3: So here's what I'm saying. Here's here's what I'm about
to say. Let me finish here.
Speaker 4: I think if it happens in the first half, it
should be a two quarter suspension. So if it happens
in the first quarter, you can come back for the fourth.
I think that should I think that would be fair.
I do, because it's one missed hit, one miss hit
and you're out for the game. I think that's a
little bit extreme. Now, if it happens in the fourth quarter,
I think it should carry into the like if it
happens to the fourth quarter of the game, it should
carry into the next two quarters of the next But
I'm not a fan of kicking a kid out completely
just because he missed timed one hit in a game
that has hundreds.
Speaker 2: Sometimes you make bad plays, you're laid on a hit
and you didn't insentially do it, and you wonder where
the spirit of law comes into play. Because the letter
to law, I feel like they stay true to this,
But where does the spirit caleball get your thoughts on
on this?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: Should he have missed? Miami's She's not me not missed?
Miami coach Mario Cristobal said, it's unjust. Do you agree
or disagree with that comment?
Speaker 5: I mean the way it's I think the rule it
is not.
Speaker 2: The problem is the problem rules, Caleb. I think we
can hear. I don't know what happened with your your MIC,
but I think you might have gone away. I don't
think I can even maybe pick up another headset, but
I think I might have lost you there. I'll keep
going until we get that figured out. But couldn't hear him.
Really sounded like it wasn't. Uh yeah, No, I don't
think you're back. I think yeah, you might have to.
You might have to reconnect, disconnect and reconnect because I
can't hear you. It sounds like your MIC has turned off.
So look, is this fair or foul? I'll ask you, guys.
I'll ask the people listening to the to the program
right now, do you agree or disagree? Would you care
if it was a BYU BYU player? I would. I
would say that there might be some I don't know
if I would call it unjust. I would say that
it's unfortunate, and I would beg for the rule to
be changed to say unjust. It's like it's nothing unjust.
The rule says regardless of it. The way it's written
is that he has to sit out. Yes, does that
suck because it's the biggest age, the biggest game of
them all. I mean, former BOUI receiver Kilan Maryon had
his biggest game in you know, the summer. But that's
that's how it goes. That's the rule. The rule is
written for that particular purpose. You can't do that. You
can't foul, you can't commit a penalty like that, that
is that egregious, even if you do make a mistake
and your lay on it, and the letter of the
law is written, so it's not unjust. I don't agree
with the language and the words that he's using the
rhetoric to describe it, but I do think that it
might be a little bit maybe unfair, unfortunate because I
think a kid should be able to play in a
National championship to a pece one. I'm gonna continue reading,
you know here of what the article says, So we're
going to have a discussion on targeting. Steve Shaw, the
National Coordinator of Officials and the NCAA Secretary Rules editor,
told Yahoo Sports last week from Miami site. In a
National championship game, that needs to be an annual discussion.
It will be a focus discussion. I do think this
is good that they're having this conversation because you wonder
if a kid should have to sit out or do
you just view it as a as a normal foul,
which I don't. I firmly believe that this is different.
In a National championship game, the biggest stage of them all,
the biggest game of them all. What every team fights
for at the start of the season, what they can win.
If a guy has to sit out due to targeting,
there needs to be something that is adjusted. Now, I
know people are going to disagree with me, but I
firmly believe that they don't go away from the rule.
But it does need to be a jectives objective and
it says this. It's a pretty tough penalty, but it's
a penalty that has been effective, and it has been
The penalty has been effective and it hasn't switched. The
College Football Playoff Board is made up of ten FBFS
conference commissioners plus two FCS commissioners and a scheduled to
meet next week in person in Dallas around the National
Football Foundations getting together of the twenty three conference coordinators
of football officials. Says, however, any rule changes to the
targeting policy or any other rule will will ordinate from
recommendation from the NCAA Football Rules Committee, So it has
to come from the NCAA Rules Committee. Eve though they're
going to get together, the committee meets annually in late February.
So just because they're all getting together next week and
having this discussion, that is a fun, fazed thing. The
NCAA rules committee has to be the one to approve
this ap.
Speaker 4: Well, I I think there does need like I I
think it's good that they're meeting about this rule. I
wonder if I mentioned, just just a second ago, maybe
some changes to the rule.
Speaker 3: What if it just went to like it is in.
Speaker 4: The NFL, because it the NFL doesn't quite treat it
like just any other penalty.
Speaker 3: But it's close. It's a fifteen yard penalty.
Speaker 4: You're not thrown out of the game unless it's an
egregious hit or something you can do. I think it
would be great for college football to make it more
like more like that, where it's a fifteen yard penalty
if it's egregious, if it's an absolutely ridiculous hit, you
can throw them out of the game and you can
find a player, because.
Speaker 2: I think I think.
Speaker 3: You should find player. I think that should be that should.
Speaker 2: Be carry because you find them.
Speaker 3: Because they're getting paid now, they should be able to
be fined.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. I mean, we're speaking of getting fine.
Did you hear yesterday of meet reading Dion Sanders And
maybe people didn't. I sent it to Ben and it's crazy,
but this is what Dion is doing now because people
can get paid. He has a fine system set in
the place. Just to reiterate, reiterated to people. Colorado football
conduct violations as follows. Number one, if you damaged team
property is three thousand dollars. If you missed practice, which
is crazy, twenty five hundred. I'm surprised that that one
is so low. Missing practice like a non negotiable. You
ain't playing unless it's a severe circumstances. You've got approval.
Speaker 4: If I missed soccer practice when I was twelve, I
wasn't playing. So if you're a college athlete, yeah, you
better be in practice one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: You better be in that for sure. So you missed
practice two point five, I couldn't tell if you missed
rugby practice just for the heck of it wouldn't happen. Now,
there's one time I did sleep in accidentally. My alarm
did not go off. You're laughing, ap was not fun.
Cole said, Oh, it's fine, Ron, But when I got
to practice on Thursday, I apologize to the captain, apologized
to all of my teammates and my boys, my group,
even my Fords coaches say it happens, but we ran
our asses off. I will I will not lie, and
I had to run a lot. I know this, the
kids are listening to this program. But if you miss practice,
regardless of what the reason, and that I didn't have
to run as much, but I did have to do
some gassers and I had to make up for that.
So that was punishment that was well deserved. You can't
sleep in misspractice. That's just how it goes accountability to everybody,
even around the three man weaver. If you have a
public misconduct, depending what it is, he says, it's two
thousand to five thousand. If you miss film two thousand.
If you miss a workout, that's fifteen hundred. Surprised that
it's only fifteen hundred there for a workout you mistreatment,
thought this was intriguing, fifteen hundred. If you violated team rule,
it's one thousand and two thousand, which is normal. NFL
gives you that you know, you know. If you're late,
if you lose equipment, it's a thousand. That's crazy. You
only lose equipment, but a mouthpiece, that mouth that's gonna
be an expensive mouthpiece. Ap If you're late to a workout,
it's a thousand, if you're late to treat.
Speaker 3: You going to the cheapest and getting another mouth.
Speaker 2: On man, and you have to wonder if the mouthpieces
are sponsored. You have to wonder because everything is sponsored
these days, so you have to wonder, Hey, is this
is this gonna fix it? Let's bring Caleb Lines back
and let's see if it's fixed the issue. Caleb. Let's
see if your MIC's better. Now, Yeah, there we go.
Now we got your k Yeah kay, there it is.
Your thoughts just on everything. Let's go back to the
original point and then you can give commentary about people
getting you know, replacing I guess them getting kicked out
the next game with the fine because they get paid.
Your comments on the Miami coach saying it's unjust that
he was out of the game, fair or foul comments
from from Miami's head coach, I.
Speaker 5: Mean, I think you could make an argument that it
is unjust the way it's currently being called. Now, I
actually kind of want to bounce back to something you
just really talked about about the fines. I'm actually gonna
jump straight to that way. The way a lot of
it happens in the NFL. You don't see as many
people being ejected. What you do sing true, view the
game tape, and then they'll assess a fine after the fact. Okay, So,
if college football is becoming a professional league in and
of itself, kind of a subsidiary of the NFL, which
is what it feels like we're leaning towards the shifting
towards right now in the college football landscape, is that
an option that we go through. Now, Again, that's not
it's not gonna be equal ramifications based off of what
everybody's making with NIL. But I guess in the NFL
it's not equally either because everybody's on a different salary.
So you can make a point to maybe it should
be a fine instead a monetary value thing, rather than
being kicked out and not being able to participate in
the game. Now you talk about AP was talking about it,
it's the first quarter, Maybe you come back in the
fourth quarter. I like that. I think that could work too.
Maybe it's just two quarters, no matter when it happens,
no matter how those happen, where it happens, instead of
having somebody be out for four and some people be
out for two like they are right now. So I
think that could be a good application. I do think
it's interesting that it should be a very objectively called rule. Right,
Like the way it's laid out is, if you're leading
with the crown of your helmet where you hit the
head or neck area, that should be automatic disqualification according
to the current targeting rules. Now SEMs like a very
objective the way it's laid out. But why does it
feel like it's being called so subjectively? Right? It feels
like based on the game, based on the player, based
on the.
Speaker 2: Officiat increase, based if a quarterback is five to six.
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, off of yeah, exactly, based off of if
it's a quarterback that everybody knows, or if it's just
somebody that nobody really knows, they're not going to really
get that call. Now, we did see, for instance, in
the National Championship game, there was a hit on Fernando
Mendoza they have been called targeting. Was not called targeting. Now,
I think again, something that could have fixed that issue.
Maybe it's you go back and you assess a fine, right,
and that's and that could be work. That could be
a just a fair, a fair argument. Because it's interesting
that Mario Crisoball is the one bringing this up but
his players did commit one of those files that seemed
pretty objectively targeting and was not called and was not
reviewed and could have had an impact on the game.
Indiana still him out on top, But would people have
been more upset if they had lost? And you can
point to the impact that that could or should have
had all the game. So I don't know how we
fix this more objectively. I love trying to take an
objective approach when fixing these things. I think subjectivity ruins
the way things are called. So again, that's kind of
my non answer slash question is if it's an objective rule,
why does it feel so subjective? So kind of again,
like you're saying reaching that question out to the people,
like how can we fix this? And I think we
really may have nailed it down with in today's era
of college football, should it be a fine that's assessed
rather than kicking a young man out of a football
game for something that may not have even been intentional? Right,
that can open up a whole other kind of worms
with who assesses the penalty, how much your charged? Like
how that works? Right? I'd almost rather deal with that
kind of worms at this time than to have somebody
kicked out of the game for accidentally hitting somebody with
a shoulder not to the crown or neck area. I mean,
you could go back to kind of cool against Utah, like,
do you think we would have won that game if
targeting was called better or correctly?
Speaker 2: Good question for that.
Speaker 5: So I don't know. Again, I feel like I'm saying
out of know a lot because I really don't know.
But I think it needs to be fixed and needs
to be discussed a little bit more. I hope we
take a little bit of better approach of the than
we did with the playoff expansion. Say hey, we'll just
band aid it for a minute, but I hope we
actually really talking about maybe out of the box solutions
that can fix this for all of college football.
Speaker 3: Well, and I agree one hundred percent.
Speaker 4: There is that this rule does need to be more
objective and less subjective, and I think that we've talked
a lot about why it's subjective. I honestly think that
officials are very scared of kicking a big time player
out of the game.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I think if it was.
Speaker 4: A lesser penalty on the field where you still have
fifteen yards but you're not necessarily throwing him out of
the entire game, you'd see it called more objectively. I
honestly think that they're let's talk about this Texas Arizona
State playoff game last year. Yeah, I if that was
a lesser penalty, if they weren't dealing with throwing the
kid out of the game, I think they probably call it.
I think they were scared to throw the player out
of the game because that was very clear objective targeting.
But I think it gets an officials heads that they're doing,
don't They don't want to throw a big time player
out of a game.
Speaker 3: Sometimes, and sometimes they will.
Speaker 4: Sometimes they will credit again sometimes, but I think a
lot of missed calls.
Speaker 3: Are just they're scared to enforce it all the way.
Speaker 2: And it's tough and look just to give people to
reset a little bit to NCA defiance targeting, as Caleb said,
to a degree, is when a player initiates forcible contact
against an opposing player to the to the head or
neck arias not just head, but it's neck area most
often but not always, when leading with the crown on
the crown top of the helmet against a defense player.
If a player makes forcible contact with the head of
a defenseless player. Targeting also may also be called the
reason why I judge Noah Fafida and I had said that,
and I was being tongue in cheek a little bit too.
Is a man who also stands five foot six. I
guess being short sometimes does have it to perks. No
the Kiana ton of Vasa one was completely targeting, and
it was. And when it's clear that and it goes
to your point, Caleb, of reviewing and looking at the footage,
which they do get the footage when they do, but
it and this is where it's subjective because and I'm
bringing up actual data from the ba Arizona game. You
called targeting against Kanu ton of Vasa, which it was
not arguing it was. And he said, can't do that.
He's got to pull up. He ducked his head, knocked
no out and he didn't knock him out, but he
knocked him, like did it? And I was like, yeah,
he's he's gone, and it was very quick. But then
Isaiah Glasker, who's running, doesn't hit him, has his hands up,
bumps him, you know, and they throw the flag. Okay,
happens official store flax. But then you call targeting. No no, no, no,
no no no. You can call roughing the passer and
then it can be upgraded to targeting and it's still
the same thing because you can upgrade it. If it's
that level of egregiousness, that's I think where the subjective
can come into play. Of what we saw in the
Bau Arizona game, they called a targeting call that should
have been roughing the passer and not targeting, and then
it was different because it puts a player at risk
when they shouldn't. They still were gonna get the first
down for rough in the passer, but instead of a
kid almost getting kicked out the game or putting it
in a situation say rough in the passer, gonna look
to go deem if it's starting, because there's nothing wrong
with looking, right, Caleb, I think you would agree. I
think you'd de grade p go check tape. There's nothing
wrong with checking tape. It's not there's no there's no
targeting foul on the play, unnecessary, unnecessarily excuse me, rough
in the passer will still be enforced first down, Arizona.
That's what it should be, and I think that's why
it's subjective as mistakes like that happen, and Brady Papingle
is the one that actually pointed that out. It wasn't me.
I don't want to take credit for that. When Brady
said this said, oh he's spot on with that, And
I think that's the big deal is they're afraid to
maybe make a call in a big time game. You
don't want to throw a player out. And now I'm not.
You can come from me all day. It is what
it is. This is probably why I won't tot be
granted the job because I'm looking, you know, for the
smoke rather than calling the game the way it is.
I'm joking there but also being serious. But you're afraid
to make a call in a big time moment, then
if you get it wrong and people chastise you, what
then is all? This is what I just say. Just
put them at the podium. You put them at the podium,
we can ask them questions and this can all go
to bed. You know, you can make them accountable. You
know the Zebras. The Zebras are gonna get it wrong.
But I think that's why there's it's always gonna be
subjective and Caleb's right, when they're human nature you're asking
me to make a call. You play soccer, ap I
guarantee if you were a ref, and maybe you have,
you're not gonna get every call right. I've read basketball
and get every call right. Sometimes I'm laid on the call,
which happens. But I think that's the subjective nature, is
human element, big moment, the superstar call, like a j Gin,
those facts, all of that plays a factor into it.
You can't just be some letter of the law. But
this is why I just say, if you wanted to
be that way, get robots then.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's where that's where some leagues are going, like,
you've got I think you've got the Is the MLB
starting to use I know they had something in there
where they might start having a robot call of strikes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know if that's been I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's implemented, but I heard that
there are some rumors there. I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't know if I like that or I don't,
because I do think there does need to be some
spirit of the law judgment over letter of the law.
Speaker 5: But well, yeah, I wonder how like oh sorry, trying
no ahead, Absolutely, yeah, no, I mean, I wonder how accurately,
like where people just gonna get mad of the robots then, right, Like,
I mean, are we gonna have enough views for like
a robot or an AI type indicator to be able
to look at this and assess it correctly, properly? I
mean that can bring me to a whole other tangent
that I love to bring up and talk about. I
think it should be mandatory, like in the NFL or
in college football, Like, I don't care who's producing the game.
I don't care if it's a conference game, non conference game,
if it's a national championship game, if it's a Division
one versus FBS fcs. Excuse me, I think all FBS
football games should have pileon cams at the first down
marker and at the goal lines. Like, I think, if
you take away so much room for error by having
those shots, how many times has a call been influenced by, Oh,
we didn't we didn't have a camera and what we
were looking for?
Speaker 2: Well, how does that? How does that get your face
right now? Andrew? If he could only see it the
way you just.
Speaker 5: I feel it. I feel it. Yeah, No, I think again,
that's a little bit of a tangent. But we're talking
about way to call things better. I don't understand how
that's not mandatory yet. I don't understand how you can
pop that up in one game and not have it
in another. I mean, you have skycam that can help
out with some.
Speaker 2: Where's the camera?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 5: I mean, here's my ignorance. How much can that cost?
Speaker 6: More?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 5: Where can you cut cost somewhere else to make that
a possibility in each game?
Speaker 2: But cut the social media person and pay the camera.
Speaker 5: Yeah, let's get pilon camps. Let's get someone's dedicated job
to set up that pilon cam for the first down
marker and just set it there at the goal lines
in every single game. So I'm gonna start a campaign
on that. Follow me on Twitter, let's get it going.
I'll get some signatures, and we'll get this before ESPN,
because I think they're the ones that make all decisions
for a college football right now.
Speaker 3: It's so true, like I have been screaming this for years.
There is just no way.
Speaker 4: There's no way that ESPN, Fox, CBS, ABC does not
have enough money, Dant, There's no way that any of
these networks who have who are producing and broadcasting college
football games, cannot spare a few dollars to put a
pylon cam at every game. It to me, it's just
so basic. They have cameras everywhere. They have so many cameras,
some of which are not needed. I think they have
cameras on top of the stadium that are never used
during an actual broadcast. There's no way you can't tell
me that they can't have a pylon cam at every
single game or put a camera on the first down markers.
That is exactly right, and I've been screaming that for years.
It's ridiculous to me. So many games have been won
or lost because they, like Caleb just said, they didn't
have the camera angle.
Speaker 3: And to me, it's the simplest fix in the world.
Speaker 2: Speaking of a fix, how much of a fix could
be in the Heisman run. Let's finish with this. We
do have to get to break. But I just saw
a piece that I liked that I didn't get a
chance to bring up. Kalani Sataki's one thousand and five
yard running back leaves into the Heisman Trophy conversation after
return twenty twenty six, LJ. Martin, the guy that had
three straight games of one hundred rushing yards. This is
Pro Football Focus. They said this Martin ranks as the
pff sn CFB running Back Impact Rankings number two. He's
coming in on that this guy was so fantastic. BYU's
run first approach ranks fortieth in the FBS last year,
averaging one hundred and seventy eight one point yards per
game in the Big Twelve, where passing offense seem like
the prevailing style of play for the Cougars, the Cougars
want to keep running the football. BYU and Heisman share
history three Cougars, Steve Young, Robbie Bosco in nineteen ninety one,
or Ty Demer other schools only finalists. Now we know
Jake Retzlaf said he wanted to be in New York,
but that wasn't the case because he ended up at Tulane.
By's blockbuster schedule will make Martin's Heisman case chase a
battle to watch. Facing TCU Notre Dame Iowa State means
every yard will be earned. Crucial back to back games
against Arizona State Utah think up the drama even more,
especially that Holy War game, as they like to say.
Victory over there Fiarce's rival could spark that pushes for
Martin to get into that legend conversation. Martin plays on
an offense that emphasizes rushing b while you also avoid
Texas Tech this season, which can boost confidence. Could LJ.
Martin make a run to his way to New York. Now,
a lot of things have to happen for this to
be the case. Ap and Caleb, he obviously will be
the leading Russian, no doubt. He has to break the
BYU single. He has to break the rushing record. I
think he has to stay healthy. I mean, that's all
of this revolves around health. You just put help. Remember
the thing he used to do in fifth or sixth grade.
You draw the big bubble like an egg, you write
the thing in it, and then you draw the little
thing after. It's probably science that I'm talking about, but
look that's what it is. So obviously health is the
main thing. But he has to break the Russian record.
He has to lead the team in rushing.
Speaker 3: Here's a little thing.
Speaker 4: Baar Bachmeyer has to hand the ball off at the
two yard line instead of rushing it at himself lost
out on like eight touchdowns because Bear had his own
rushing touchdowns right there.
Speaker 2: It's true, but that's not on bear. That's play called it.
Speaker 4: It's not and they're to be honest, get in the
end zone however you want. I'm just absolutely I'm just
saying in order to have Heisman numbers.
Speaker 2: But I think this coming back this next year, I
can see that definitely happening. I could see with him
having a chance to break the record and how they
leaned on him. Now, granted they're gonna run their offense,
but Aaronic said in the Cincinnati Aga and we didn't
plan on that. But hey, but I think they see
or they will plan on leaning on LJ. But I'm
still worried about the debt. But Caleb, your thoughts. Could LJ.
Martin run himself to New York and have an opportunity
to be in the Heisman conversation? Could LJ Martin be
AP's not in his head? No, so we'll get to
him in just a second. But uh, he has a chance,
But I think the quarterback might have a better chance.
Speaker 5: Your thoughts, Caleb, Yeah, I think to be in the conversation,
he's probably have to break that rushing record you're talking about.
Speaker 2: Period.
Speaker 5: My my first thought though, when we bring this up,
is are we talking about production? Are we talking about flashiness?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 5: I think we learned with Age Ashton Genty and Travis Hunter.
You can take either side of that argument, with whichever
one you want, right, Like, I know how I personally
feel about that. But Ashton Genty had the type of
production that isn't really matched and he did not win
the Heisman Trophy. So LJ. Martin, the way he runs,
the way he does things, he can show a little
bit of flashness here and there. He's kind of like
a ground and pound type of guy where he'll make
defenders miss. He's a tough nosed runner. He'll get downhill.
He might get caught from behind a few times, but
he's a good runner. Is he as flashy as people
want people to be if you're gonna win the Heisman Trophy,
especially as a non quarterback, I don't know if he's
got the flashiness to do that. So maybe the numbers
could be flashy enough for him to get into that conversation.
But I just again, I think back to the type
of season Ashton Genty had. Now he was going up
against a two time prospect who's now actually playing excuse me,
a multi way prospect who's now playing both ways in
the NFL and may continue to do that is what
I'm hearing. But was it who Ashton Genty went against
that he lost the Heisman Trophy or was it? Because
I don't know, there are a lot of thoughts that
I have with this. I I don't see L. J.
Martin putting up Ashton Genty type numbers, and so that'd
be crazy because of that experience. If that would even
be enough. I guess it depends what year it is,
right who your competition is gonna be. So again, I
just think of flashing its versus production, and what kind
of mixture of both Elder's gonna have for next year. Absolutely,
I think he could be in that conversation. Will he be,
I'm not. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: Before you go a P, I mean he is flashy.
He's flashy because he hits Chase Roberts in the back
of the back when he's running, you know, so that
that might be he gets on the highlight tape, you know,
it takes out sometimes his own guy. We're gonna get
We're gonna interviews Chase next week. Actually to get caught
up with him how the Bowl games and things are going,
and we're gonna ask that. Did you see on tape?
Ill just kept decking you in the back. You know
what'd you say to him? It's so we're gonna ask
Chase that question. I think that's funny. I'm joking with
the flashing this ap go ahead.
Speaker 3: I don't mean to rain on a parade here.
Speaker 5: L J.
Speaker 3: Martin is not winning the Heisman.
Speaker 2: I just didn't.
Speaker 3: I don't think he's gonna get to New York.
Speaker 2: Well, I believe Bear would be in New York before LG.
Speaker 5: If.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be honest that.
Speaker 4: Oh and and I'll agree with you here. And here's
why I'm not saying. Let me be clear to the
Utah fans listening in, I am not saying Bear is
going to New York.
Speaker 5: I'm not saying.
Speaker 2: I'm saying.
Speaker 3: I just want to be very clear before they clip
that and put that online or tweet at me. But
the Heisman is a quarterback award.
Speaker 2: Facts, it just is.
Speaker 3: It's not given to the best player every year.
Speaker 4: It's given to the best quarterback mostly now there's the Anomaies,
there's a Travis Hunters or or every once in a while.
You've got the wide receiver from Alabama a few years ago.
But for the the most part, yeah, Davon Tasemith. For
the most part, it's a quarterback award. What I want
to see, what I predict actually is that L J.
Martin is a Dope Walker Award finalist. Okay, I think
he can get there, and I think that would be
huge because that is.
Speaker 2: Also a requirement. I think if you're gonna get to
New York, it is.
Speaker 4: But I just don't see New York take like, to
be honest, I think the heisman is Julian Sand. It's
gonna be that Julian Sand to me. But it's a
quarterback award. They're going to take the top quarterbacks of
the year. They're gonna put them in New York. They
might take a wide receiver or a line if they've.
Speaker 2: Had a great year.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So you don't believe a guy like Jeremiah Smith can
killin it?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 2: Wow? Okay, Okay, I'm I I thought I could get
you right there. He hesitated for a second, But I
guess not. I believe it a guy like Jeremies Smith could.
He didn't have to have a ridiculous season. I do
agree with it as a quarterback award. I want to
know if Jared Bledsoe shout out to Utah Protective Films,
is listening to this segment because I want to know
his thoughts and if I get a text message here
a little bit, then I'll know. But I want to
know could l J. Martin run his way to New York?
And if he didn't, does he believe that Bear would
go to New York first before LJ? Now, Grant is
only one season left, but it's not fair to compare that.
But I wonder what this next season would Bear have
the numbers and stats and the flashiness. Like kaylab is saying,
what he go before LJ. But Lj's got a shot.
If he does, He's not winning it, but I think
he'd be the last guy if anything, if that were
to be the case. But he has to have multiple
games of one hundred yards rushing. He has to break
the all time rushing record at bou win the Dope
Walker Award lead BYU in total touchdowns. I'm being honest
to we're gonna receiving yard two and back that up.
And they've been using him in the past game more,
which they can. But you're talking about fifteen, sixteen hundred,
seventeen hundred total yards often he just brought up Ashon Genty.
The guys that were rushing, you know, had over two
thousand with passing, over two thousand total yards of offense
in the season. You're talking about fifteen hundred yards on
the ground, five hundred receiving yards. That's a big time season.
So there's a lot that has to happen. Julian Sands
are obviously going to be in the conversation. If Trinidad
Chambliss is able to come back, he's going to be
in the conversation. It's going to be a lot of quarterbacks,
So I that's why I say it would be Bear
before blgib And I'm interestped.
Speaker 3: To know what your point earlier.
Speaker 4: If there is going to be a non quarterback who
as a finalist, it will be Jeremiah.
Speaker 2: Smith because that's what I'm saying. I think he has
to be.
Speaker 3: I think he's the only one.
Speaker 2: He's the only one that it's true, he's probably the
only one that has a shot. Anyway, we need to
take a break. We've been going way too long. But
that college football segment, A lot of good talk stuff.
How do you feel about the targeting role? Just to
reset fair foul, unjust comments? What needs to change with
the rule? We've said a lot of good stuff. We
all agree that doesn't need to carry over. Does that
mean you missed the second and third quarter of a game,
you shut out in game and you don't play. Does
that mean whenever it happens, you're done and then you're fined.
All of this again, it's going to be subject but
that's the nature. That's the problem. Is things too subjective
when you have the human human element that comes into play.
But I do agree, for my personal standpoint, if that
would BYU and that would have happened, I would not
have wanted to see a BYU player sit out the
first two quarters of a national championship game. And I
think everyone can agree with that, unless you're just die hard. Nope,
this is the rule and I won't budge. I'll respect
you on that if you stand on business anyway. That
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your appointment. We need to go to break. We will
coming back. We're gonna get into a little college basketball
Cougar byte talk on a flip. What did Bill self
have to say about Richie Sanders, Rob Righting, aj De
Bonson is Darren d Bounds? Excuse me? And this Darren
Peterson conversation that coming on next right here on a
Utah ESPN Radio Network one O three nine, And I did.
Speaker 1: You were listening to Cougar Sports and it's time for
a Cougar bite. Ben Crittle breaks down the latest sound
bites from Cougar Athletics here on one O three nine
at ninety eight three ESPN.
Speaker 2: The fan, welcome back to Cougar Sports here one O
three nine, ninety eight three esp and the fan, Ronald,
the three man we over here, Andrew Peenison are running back?
Are LJ Martin here. Yeah, that's right, he's a bruiser,
A bruises who bruises those you fans. We also have
Caleb Lyons here, first time co hosting with us as well.
We appreciate him showing up and showing out doing a
fantastic job as well. We're filling in today and the
next couple of days for Ben Crital. We'll be back
on Monday taking care of some stuff. Wishing Brad Hammer
speedy recovery as well. In the process. Let's go really
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here we go. I'm gonna get into a little cougar
byte here Bill self. What did he have to say
about Richie Saunders. People talk so much about AJ right
is good, but Sanders they got strollers. The guy that's
like thirty five in Provo has been a Kansas killer
the last years he has. He has. Bill's self gives
his impressions of BYU basketball guard Richie Sanders, the team
and just the overall performance that he thinks that his
needs to have to take down by you on Saturday.
Speaker 5: Let's tune in love him.
Speaker 6: I think Kevin's done a great job and short amount
of time. You know, they can stretch it from all
four spots. Uh Uh, they can play around the big
they they they have realm protection and and you know
they got to you know, people talk so much about
AJ but you know right is good. But the Saunders
has been just killer the last two years. He he
he is so good and he gets such great elevation
on his jumper that that it's it's it's a hard
one to contest.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 6: And he's making shots it's it's hard. Uh, but uh,
I like their team. I like their team. Our league,
as you know, is a monster, and you know there's.
Speaker 2: Four or five six teams in our league.
Speaker 6: If you get hot at the right time, you know,
it could be not in the second weekend, could be
in the third weekend of March. So so and b
y us certainly one of those guys.
Speaker 2: You know, Bill there it is he said, BYU is
certainly one of those guys.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: I'll start with you ap your thoughts on Bill Seals
comments ages AJ, we know what is right's good? But
Saunders the Kansas Killer? Your takeaways?
Speaker 4: Well, I think Richie Saunders is the only player on
this team that played both years that we beat Kansas.
Speaker 2: I would I would agree with that.
Speaker 4: I think he's the only well okay, if you count
players that actually play. Yeah, yeah, so Bill s Richie
Saunders is the one player that Bill self is personally
very aware of and and he's done very well in
those games. I think Bill self has always been very
classy when it comes to by us treated b Yu
so he's gonna say nice things. I think he's also
learned to respect the program, not just you know, say
it in front of the microphone. But he's lost to
him twice in a row?
Speaker 3: And how many how many?
Speaker 4: How many teams has Bill self lost to twice in
a row? Like, it's probably not a very big number
of teams from a coach who's that good and one
as much as Bill self has.
Speaker 3: But I think, I mean, I.
Speaker 4: If I was Kansas, I would be worried about Ritchie,
but not nearly as much as AJ. I honestly think
this could be a game where AJ and Darren try
to play is oball little too much and just try
to go one on one.
Speaker 2: Hope that AJ doesn't fall into that trap. Remember it's
about the team get it done. Uh, Caleb, I'll get
your thoughts on this, and then I'll give the stats
of how Richie Saunders is the Kansas Killer.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I'll go right onto what if he
was just talking about with AJ, maybe wanted to take
on a little bit too much. I don't feel like
I've seen a ton of that this season. I mean,
I think there has been a little a little bit
where it's like, Okay, he didn't quite need to do that.
I mean, the first half against Yukon felt a little
bit for ud. I know we were back in his
hometown of Boston, was trying to put on a show there,
and in the second half he did come out and
he did play really well and help us get back
into that game make a run for it. So I
don't think the answer is to tell Aj to do less.
I mean, again, it comes down to coaching and what
Ky wants him to do and when he wants them
to do it. I did see something earlier this week
talking about how there have been a few times where
Aj will get into the paint and kind of do it, turnaround,
step back with two people on him with twenty two
seconds left on the shot clock. Now, I don't know
if I care as much about how much time is
left on the shot clock. If that's AJ's shot, if
he's feeling it, I think it's I think it can
be a good shot wherever it's at. If he doesn't
make the shot, it's a lot easier to critique it
and say that was a bad shot. Would we be
saying the same thing if he makes those with twenty
two seconds left on the shot clock? I'm not sure.
I do think getting Richie more touches on the offensive
side of the ball against Kansas will really do wonders
for BYU and the fact that they'll have to respect
a lot more people. Right, if you're gonna have to
respect Rob, right, if you're gonna have to respect Richie
Saunders and AJ Debonsa. I me you're talking about Bill Seff.
He knows that you're gonna have to respect Richie Sunders
with the ball. Is there anything we can get Richie
a little bit more attention, take some of that attention
off of AJ and let him go off like he
did against Utah. I mean, it's felt like he wasn't
getting as much attention against Utah, So I think about
how can we get eyes off of AJ and still
get production on him. I think Richie Saunders is the
answer for that, Like, let him do his thing, give
him the ball, get him some touches. I think you
don't want to go too many possessions without Richie Saunders
getting an actual good look at the ball. And I
think that's what's gonna have to happen against Kansas to
win that game. Like, I don't think we're gonna need
lights out shooting from our big three. They tend to
do that. They like to do that I like that
they like to do that, but I kind of want
to see Richie get the ball in his hands earlier
in the shot clock and see what he can do
with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why when I said earlier in then Nitty
Gritty in the first time, he missed that you can
download on the podcast, you should upload here momentarily doing
double duty today produce hosting all of it. So it
might take a little bit of time. Bear with me,
but no, I bring all of it up because I
think Richie is the key to unlocking it. When he's
hitting threes, BA is extremely hard to stop on Rob.
Rob's finding him. When Rob is close to double Digitusister
gets over that Bo. He's blowing teams out by twenty.
So Rob has a double JJITUSS game per the metrics,
per the numbers, BA, he blows Kansas out. Do I
think that will happen. No, but your point is right,
Caleb unlocking Richie, I think fifteen the top kin, the
Riverton native, that is the guy to do it. And
it's interesting that Bill Sels said that he's a Kansas killer.
He didn't kill him the first year in the game.
I'm looking at the stats here, Bau won that game
seventy six to sixty I believe. Want to make sure
my math is right. Yeah, Richie had five points. He
played I think twenty two minutes, and he was two
to seven from the field, one to four from three,
and I think he missed his only free throw attempt
as well. Last year however, it was a BTA handing
them that took him behind and shit in the words
of Kavi and BTA Bell tabooty, that's lily what it was.
And it was the worst lost in Kansas history. I
think in the conference slate it was crazy. BA won
ninety one to fifty seven. My gosh, Richie had twenty
two points in twenty nine minutes to play, if I'm
correct looking at this, and he just went bonkers, honestly.
I mean there was nothing that they could they could
do by the way, Richie went back to back games.
He played well against the Kansas State game prior, but
he was not a thirteen four v eight from the
three and he didn't attempt a free throw in that game.
So yeah, you can argue that he is the Kansas Killer.
And I think he knows Bill's self, like you guys said, classly,
classy guy that understands that if they let Richie Saunders
get going and the byus hitting threes, that they're a
very difficult team to stop. But I think that's the answer.
I think you need to run the offense and the
ball through Richie. Kansas likes to play a man to man,
but they're little sometimes slow off the screen and the
pin down. So I think he understands their weaknesses and
what their strengths and what their core competencies are. And
I think he realizes that if they let Richie go
off and get going to BA, he's not gonna win
this game. Because he watched tape right ap Caleb, he
knows that that Rob and Aj aren't gonna go for
nine a forty. All of us believe that they're not
gonna go nine to forty. It's not gonna happen. So
he is saying, Okay, we're not gonna really be able
to slow the other two down. We have a seven
foot that can block. But if he gets in foul trouble,
who they really need to worry about When they want
to space the floor, it's fifteen. He likes to do
steph Curry likes to run from baseline to Baseline likes
to get downhill on rip. So, but we'll see. We'll
see if they mug Richie, because they've been mugging them
all season. Everybody. We need to go to break guys.
But I just want to give you a little cougar
back there. That's Bill Seb's comment. If you want to
check out the rest of it, I just need to
give credit to. That's from CBS Sports College Basketball. It's
John Rostein actually sitting down with Bill Self and discussing
this to Kansas men's basketball head coaches. Bill Self compares
recent AJ excuse me, Darren Peterson performance to Kevin Durandy,
discusses a bunch of things. He talks about Darren Peterson
and AJ matchup. What do you expe from that? He
breaks down by you, Kevin Young, It's a bunch of stuff.
So you can check that out. That's what we're getting
it from playing one of those clips off of YouTube.
That's CBS Sports College Basketball. That segment was brought to
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nine nineteen at Central Garage, Utah dot com. We'll go
to break. Let's get into a little inside report really
quickly before we welcome in Darnell Dixon of the Daily Herald.
You're listening to Cougar Sports right here on one O
three nine and ninety eight three IAN.
Speaker 1: You were listening to Cougar Sports with Ben Griddle, and
it's time for a Cougar Games report. Now, let's get
that for a prietary inside scoop on Cougar Sports from Credle.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Cougar Sports here one oh three nine
ninety eight three ESPN A fan run up, the three
man Weaver here, Andrew Peterson by my side, Caleb Lions
as well, first time Coast and appreciate him showing up
and showing out. You're doing a wonderful job. By the way, Caleb,
appreciate everyone that's been tuning in listen to it. We
got the technical difficulties fixed. They able to get the
MIC's apologize for those technical difficulties as we're testing a
bunch of new stuff today in studio and having other
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Here's your insider report. I talked about how the top
king you know, by the way, forgot to mention Richie
Saunas rinks thirty fourth in ESPN's ranking the top fifty
men's basketball College basketball players are the midseason point of Myra.
Metcalf was the one that put that article out. We've
had Myrono in front of the program. Also, just want
to let you guys know you're gonna hear my Cougar
sports interrupted in the next break or two and in
for the rest of the show. Listen to it. You
get the value. Adds and I discussed this as well,
and give Richie a little bit of praise too. But
it's actually gonna be a defensive guy. Ba us K Pakeda.
He was one of twenty five players named to the
twenty twenty six Nate Smith Men's College Defensive Player of
the Year watch list that was announced this morning. The
native of Mibaca, Mali, has a team high thirty four
blocks in eighteen games this season, ninety one of his
one hundred and forty four excuse me four one hundred
and forty one rebounds coming on the defensive glass. According
to CBS Analytics, he ranks in the ninety seven percent
out in a keem percentage, ninety six percent out in
defensive rebound percentage and ninety fifth in block percentage. He's
recorded multiple blocks nine times this season, including a seven
block performance in that win against Miami that was a
career high. By the way, just so people know, six
of those blocks came in the second half, which is
the second most in any half in program history. Keba
now earns it. I know a lot of people shocked
by that. I was as well. That's why you need
a rim protector, Bdo backing them up too. You gotta
love that one to two punch. In fifty three games
as a Cougar, Kada ranked third in program history and
blocks per game with one point one point four zero,
while his seventy five blocks, which are tied for eighteen
most in program history with Fred Roberts. That you go BYU,
as I said, returns action Saturday, January thirty. First tip
is schedule for three thirty pm Central Time on ESPN
plus AP and myself will be taking you up on
the pregame all the way until tip off from two
thirty pm to three thirty pm, so you can get
us right here on the one to three nine ninety
eight three dial. That's your Cougar Insider report. We do
got to get to break. But before we do, I
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Darnel Dixon coming up into Cougar Beat the third hour
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right here on one O three nine ninety eight three
ESP