Speaker 1: What is up, fellas it goes? I am Dan Valley
coming at you with the one, the only, this certified man,
fabulous co host of the Hardwoodknock podcast, mister Grant Hugh's
trade deadline primers. They keep on rolling out. We are
onto the Detroit Pistons, who are among mining Grant's most
fascinating teams heading into the trade deadline. A lot of
stuff to get to about them. But before we get started, Grant,
how the heck are you doing?
Speaker 2: Happy to be here and recording bright and early. This
is the earliest time we've ever recorded. I think by
at least a couple hours, so I feel fresh. I'm
a morning person at the older I've gotten How are
you feeling?
Speaker 1: Have you ever recorded? I'm feeling great.
Speaker 2: Three hours later for you, so congratulating.
Speaker 1: I went to the gym and trained legs and got
a compliment while I've got some dude's number while I
was there. Really big morning for Dan over here. So
seven am, is that the earliest you've ever recorded a podcast? Yes?
Speaker 2: Gotta be gotta be, because I don't I don't know
if you know this. I don't go around recording podcasts
with just everybody, So it's you would have some information,
you would know if I had recorded earlier.
Speaker 1: That makes me one feel incredibly special, but too, the
earliest podcast I've ever did, and I did it from
a phone. I was at a bachelor party in Vegas
and for some reason I said yes, and it ended
up being four in the morning, Vegas time. Then I
went on and did this like thirty minute. I hadn't
slept at that time. I was yeah, I was probable,
but I hadn't like slept slept and we were out
partying the night before, so it wasn't just like and
that was probably the stupidest time that I and the earliest,
and I hopefully was that the latest at that point
four in the morning. That's sketchy, is it is hard
to statch you've ever recorded the early.
Speaker 2: Does the audio of that exist someplace? Because I would
personally really like to hear.
Speaker 1: That it was about. I could tell you the team
it was about. It was a Pelicans podcast I do
not know, and it was not hosted by Schermitt Dowitt
at the time, so I have no idea who's And
it was like a yeah, it was by phone too,
so I wasn't on video because that would have been
a disaster.
Speaker 2: When I used to do more radio stuff, I definitely
had said yes the things and then realized later, oh, no,
this is Eastern time, and so maybe somewhere out there
is like a fifteen minute radio hit that I'm sure
is not recorded anywhere. That was a stupidly early hour
or late. Sometimes I went the other way and just
wasn't paying attention to what time it was.
Speaker 1: Well, that just means that you're more likely to say
something in sandiary. So I favor it, and I think
that's a good time to get to the Detroit Pistons
vitals grant. They are about nineteen million dollars beneath the tax,
which is kind of absurd when you consider their first
in the Eastern Conference. But just of note, because we're
going to get into some stuff that impacts their future.
They're about seventy point three million dollars beneath next year's tax. Now,
that does imply they have cap space, but this doesn't
include contracts for restricted free agents to be Jallen Duran
or Jade and Ivy, and so I think those decisions
hang over some of what they might do with the
trade deadline. They control all of their own first round
picks moving forward, and they do have a Dennis Shrewder
trade exception fourteen point one million dollars, so they have
room beneath attacks to just take a fourteen point one
million dollar or cheaper player back and just send out
whatever draft compensation or something also something to monitor. Why
don't we start here? Do you think that the impact
of paydays for Duran and a SAR moving forward will
factor into how the Detroit is going to be, how
aggressive they are at the trade deadline, or who they
go after, what they're willing to spend on a player.
Speaker 2: I mean, doesn't it kind of seem like they that
factor is already at play because all of the messaging
from the Pistons. I'll get the verbiage wrong, but it
consistently it's been will be opportunistic, but not necessarily aggressive.
They don't basically just like signaling, don't expect a whole lot,
which given where they are in the East, given some
fairly clear needs that we'll get into it. I get it,
like you want to be conservative, but I'm not sure
that they would neces be quite this, at least outwardly. Uh,
hesitant to make a big swing if not for the
reality that, like, well, Jalen Duran has kind of played
himself into a much bigger contract than maybe we thought
he was gonna be able to get, and just down
down the line with some of their recent lottery picks,
Like it's kind of like Houston was in that position
very recently where it's like, oh, okay, well we're gonna
have a guy or two every year that the extension
is gonna come to or restrictive free agency is coming.
So I think it's a factor, don't you, Because otherwise
wouldn't you be at least again outwardly, who knows, Maybe
you're just posturing, maybe whatever, But like it does seem
like aggression would be warranted in these circumstances in most cases.
Speaker 1: I would agree with you. I'm just wondering if that's
the Is that the wrong call for them to make
because of how good they are right now? And I
think when you look at I'm not worried about what
Jade and Ivey's gonna make in his next content. I'm
still I don't know whether that contract is gonna be
coming from the Pistons at this point. But the Duran
and Asr Thompson paydays specifically, I understand the concern, but
also we're kind of entering this phase to where Houston
another good example. They've negotiated with all of their restricted
free agents, including Shane Gooon I think is the biggest one,
and then maybe we'll see that with Amen Thompson this year. Well,
he's not a restricted free agent, it's an extension. They
negotiated with those guys. Where Shane Goon probably could have
been considered a MAX player at the time, it didn't
get max money. And I know that Duran is different
because he's going to be a restricted free agent. We've
said this a trillion times on the podcast. No one's
giving out restricted free agent offer sheets right now now,
the Lakers having cap space looming, Okay, sure, but if
you're just worried about paying these two guys, I do
feel like one or both of them are gonna come
in south of the max. And also, you could time
it to be kind of aggressive and say, well, there's
a there's an expensive player coming off the books in
two years, and so just as we get mega expensive,
that's when we could reorient. And so when I asked
the question of how aggressive should they be. I think
they should be ultra aggressive, but I also do I
wanted to ask you, do you think there's a case though,
so those let's save the Asar Thompson extension, Jalen Duran's
restricted free agency aside. Could you also make the case though,
and say, well, they're this year's thunder, so to speak,
like pre Hartenstein to where it was they want to see.
We've already seen this Pistons team in the playoffs, but like,
let's just see how far the development gets. We're already
top of the conference. If it doesn't work out, we're
still gonna have all this flexibility over the off season,
all these assets over the off season, and that's when
we strike.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the counter to that, and the idea that I
think informs my my what would be my strategy, is
that you're first in the East. Everyone can't shut up
about how wide open the conference is, which is one
of those things people say, but actually I think in
this case it's pretty true, just because Cleveland and the
Knicks have both had significant struggles. The Knicks are ongoing
at the moment as we're recording this, and there's just
not a league team. There's not a there's right yeah,
there's full of league team, so so you So what
I would, and I brought this up with other teams before,
is like how much better do you really need to
see yourself get before you decide like we should probably go,
you know, like if you're first in the conference. I
think by that that doesn't mean like active rationally or
like make some risky, stupid swing. But it's like, maybe
let's flip the words of opportunistic and aggressive and like
let's just be aggressive because you have clear needs. I
think what your point about the restricted free agency stuff
is like maybe those impending contracts and extensions shouldn't be
as big of a hindrance on like real active deadline behavior,
because like, I think you're absolutely like the Pistons when
negotiating with dr and are going to point to Shangoun
and be like he's been an all star, he got
like show me the market that says you're worth more
than that, you know, so I think they will have
a lot of leverage. I think they should be in
the dock. When next to the question of how aggressive
should they be, my answer is quite like I think
like substantially aggressive. I don't know what word exactly you
want to use, But right, shouldn't they be like maybe
we could dovetail this into some of the needs that
are like, yeah, it's clear what they got to go get,
Like the defense is great, they get a ton of
offensive rebounds, they get to the foul lie. Their offense
is still nineteenth in the half court because they can't
shoot and they turn it over too much. So like,
there's your needs, go address those. Isn't that like the
simplest way to go forward as we get to the deadline.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's it can be a separate convers
I agree the biggest needs are there, and I think
you could also make the case for like how do
you fix that half court offense? Is it could you
just get shooting? Or does it need to be another
secondary ball handler? Is it someone who does both? Is
this two separate trades that they would need to make.
And so I think the mistake by them would be
to decide like we're not going to do anything. We
think that we're just a finished product. The conversation to
be had is how do we go about dressing those needs.
Is it we're going to be more focused on throwing
out some draft compensation or just utilizing that Dennis Shruder
traded player exception, or it's we're willing to throw X
number of first round picks on the table because we
identified this guy.
Speaker 2: I think the Houston parallels continue here, and I just
think back to how we talked about the Rockets over
the last couple of years, where it's like, you know,
we would say, if they want to get in on
player X, like look at the young prospects and pick
equity and all this other stuff and the matching salary
that they have, like they should get in on a
big swing, right, And they went and got Kevin Durant
and it costs way less than anyone thought it would,
just because the circumstances were what they were. But the
more we talk about the Pistons, the more I see
the parallels, and the more it's seems like, yeah, even
the needs are similar, like they they need, you know,
the Rockets went and god Durant and don't don't the
Pistons need not necessarily a guy that's like ten to
twelve years older than everyone else in their core, but
someone like an offensive shot creator, shot finisher, like that
kind of half court offensive weapon. So I get the
temptation to be like, we can go get a rotation
caliber player and fit him into that shrewder trade exception.
I think I'm more inclined to skip the half measure.
I'm more inclined to say, you've got the you've got
the assets, you've got some expiring salary, basically just talking
about Tobias Harris.
Speaker 1: Uh but that but you know.
Speaker 2: Sure that those are the deals that would have to
go contracts would have to go out. But I I
don't think. I think at this level, which is to
say first in the conference, have some real championship caliber
traits in the defense, in the toughness, in the kid Cunningham, Like,
isn't it maybe time to just like I don't know,
I'm not trying to be like provocative about it, but like,
isn't it what are you waiting for?
Speaker 1: I do the market needs to yield the name where
it would be worth while? And so maybe that's thea
that would be the problem for them. I did want
to ask them before we get into targets and trades,
where are you at with it? Let's say they do
have to send out salary in all, like, let's say
it is a bigger move, how do you feel about like,
if they have to trade Tobias Harris, do they need
to make sure that the player they're acquiring is also
a combo forward or a combo wing because a lot
of what we're describing is going to be easiest to
address if you're willing to acquire a guard. Do you
think that they have the depth if it caught Tobias
Harris specifically where it's, oh, we're giving him up and
we have this guard that's coming in who could play
alongside kid. That's great, and we do have if we
want to play Joe and Dern and Isaiah Stewart together,
like we can slide to sar Thompson or Ron Holland
into the for Javonte Greens. But one of the better
minimum signings from this past summer, or do you look
at this team and say that could get especially come
playoff time. Does that get a little rickety?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think it does get a little rickety if
you don't replace Harris with someone that plays that position.
But it's just way better. And that's not to say
you can't also and again I'm preaching ambition, like you
could also then turn around and use that trade exception
for a guard right like that you can go point.
I mean, that's that's that's a pretty all in approach.
But I don't think the move is address the shooting
and playmaking with another backcourt player or even like a
smaller wing, because it's like I want, if I can
do it, I want one of their great defensive wings
slash talking about Holland and Thompson mainly, but even Jontay
Green has kind of been like a defensive revelation this year,
Like I want those guys playing on the wings, and
I want more shooting at the the conventional four spot,
and I think, yeah, another guard would be great, but like,
I don't. I think it's gotta be a Harris upgrade.
And then speaking like positionally too, don't don't you because
I don't know what adding like a Kobe White, for example,
would help. That's one of the people we'll talk about
because it's the trade deadline and his name's coming up
for every team.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about it, splitting, splitting the baby trade targets grant.
How about that, right, that's Kobe White slides into that
traded player exception. But what you're described, what you're describing
almost feels like, oh, this is a team then that
should maybe be looking to make multiple trades, which feels
weird to say, because if you you could upgrade the
Tobias Harris spot, but if you go out and get
one of the bigger names that are out there, none
of them are really juicing your playmaking. And so I
guess what you could say is, well, we trust Kate Cunningham,
We trust Asar Thompson, Like we we have these high
IQ guys on the perimeter who will kind of paper
over any of those issues. So I don't know if
that you know, like how much weight that needs to carry,
But like I just look at the workload that even
with you know, having Donnish Jenkins in the rotation, Like,
like the the burden of playmaking that's on Ky Cunningham
right now is just so insane.
Speaker 2: Well, hasn't it been the case throughout most of his
career that one of we would clamor for a shooter
or like a even it could be an off ball
threat that would ease that playmaking burden just because of
the attention that that player is commanding. Like, you know,
I think we both are in the in the we
both agree that like it'd be nice to have a
knockdown a shooter that plays the four and another playmaker.
But I do think the knock on effect of at
like just I'm jumping way ahead, but if you got
like an all star caliber four that could make threes
and would command a ton of defensive attention off the ball,
I think playmaking gets easier just because that guy's out
there and defenses care more about him than Tobias Harris
or whoever you are, or Duncan Robinson. Even so, like, yes,
you want to address both sides of the shooting and playmaking.
I don't know deficiencies, but I do think you get
a lot of mileage out of just one as long
as that one is like a pretty high end scorer
that replaces Harris.
Speaker 1: So what would be that before getting into the splashier targets,
What would be some of the names that would spring
to mind where either perhaps it's you're not just you
could fit them into the traded player exception so that
fourteen point one million dollar cut off. Are there any
names that kind of spring to mind to wear because
I don't know if this really qualifies as a it's
a need, but they have all these talented wing players
aside from if you want to consider Kate Cunningham's a
playmaking wing or like a point forward, they don't have
someone that you trust as a shooter and a defender
other than Kate Cunningham on this roster. They're like maybe
on some Knights Tobias Harris or maybe on some Knights
Javonte Green, but that's really it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those players are easier to find, well, I mean
easier to acquire one because they're not sending out a
million picks, but easier to find at that position too,
because if you get up to the Tobias Harris sized players,
it's hard to find like a good defender who can shoot.
Those guys are max are close to MAX level guys.
So on the wing or backcourt. You mentioned Kobe White,
I think that's a pretty intuitive fit. No problem getting
him into the Shrewder exception. I know you've got a list,
but I and so I don't want to step on
too many of them. I will just say Kean Ellis
is like, yeah, he makes sense fits everywhere. Also, like
if you're kind of trying to do the Orlando Desmond
Bane thinking of like he needs to do the stuff
that we already value, which is defend. Like that's true
of the Pistons. Kean Ellis can guard, He's very disruptive,
and he's gonna make threes. I had a couple like,
what about now Benedict Matherin. I don't know if he's gettable,
but maybe the Pacers are kind of like not interested
in dealing with restricted free agency.
Speaker 1: So Detroit just has j and Ivey durn and Ben
mcmathn all headed into restricted free agency.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like who cares because Matherin, say what you want, Like,
that guy's gonna generate shots for himself and maybe that's
helpful to a Piston team that could use some of that.
I think Max Christie is a name that I thought of,
just like I want someone that's gonna be a five
alarm fire as a corner three point guy and has
positional size. Why Dallas wants to move him into a
trade exception, I don't know, but that that's the player type.
I know. You've got some other names that I also
very much agree with.
Speaker 1: I thought about this is does not address any of
their highest end needs. But Moses Moody if the Warriors
are making some part of a bigger deal and Moses
Moody sending out I don't know what his standalone value is.
Is the Pistons get him for seconds and just coming
to the traded player exception, I think that's someone who
could space the floor and give you and I think
his defense becomes looks much better on a team that
already has Sar Thompson and Ron holland Javonte Green for them.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean that you might get into a
lot will depend on his shooting, and it comes and goes,
and I think, you know, I do like that. I
was gonna try to talk myself out of it, but
like I do think defenses take him seriously, which is
kind of the threshold that you're you're hoping for, like
because they don't take Thompson or Holland or even really
Green and sometimes seriously from three.
Speaker 1: I don't know what Memphis appetite would be for discussing
this player. And it's not such a coward, but like
Cam Spencer would make a ton of sense on this team.
The playmaking that he's shown in Memphis. He's not a
great defender, but he he has like an Fu physicality
to him on that end, and he shoots the hell
out of the ball, so he could play alongside Kid.
At that point, you're kind of saying he's super cheap too.
Moving forward, at that point, you're kind of saying, we've
made our decision on Jade and Ivy. It feels like
though not that you couldn't have both of them on
the same team, but that's why it's also if you
go with the Kobe White route too, he's also going
to be a free agent. It does set like the
table for these days is Jade and Ivy going out
and a deal like that. So like that's where that
gets a little weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was thinking this guy comes up all the
time now, which is funny. He's not available, but like
a calling Gillespie just thinking of guys that are like
just just mean defenders that also shoot and playmake like
you know, he he lacks the side. I just feel
like he kind of like Spencer like attitude wise, fits
like what the Pistons would want in addition to like, yeah,
he's a great shooter and can make plays just enough,
he's not available. I know you had I want to
hear the Austin Reeves discussion out of you because he's
on the dock here.
Speaker 1: It's funny just because so he's technically a splashier target,
but he fits into the TP And so it's if
the Lakers don't want to pay him, and I don't
I think they do want to pay him. But if
they think he's going to get the max or near
max this summer, And you just threw picks of the Lakers,
who only have one tradeable pick right now though three
over the summer. If they all of a sudden have
like five or something to trade, what are they do?
They become a Giannis team at that point. So then
did you indirectly contribute to Giannis ending up with the Lakers? Okay,
then that's like a different story. But he would do
you like? His fit here is just like the off
ball movement in addition to the ball handling and the playmaking.
And he's not we could we named a worst defender
and Kobe White for them, which would be another example.
So he's not a good defender, but he'd be fine here.
But that runs into the same issue when you're talking
about Kobe White. Is so now Austin Reeves is about
to get paid, and then you have Jalen Duran getting paid.
I'm comfortable saying like, yeah, I'll keep Boston Reeves over
Jade and Ivy. That's fine with me. Bold do you
want to know? My boldest take is, and this just
comes with the caveat that I'm notoriously low on j
and Ivy. He's dealt with a ton of injuries over
the years. I would rather have Camp Spencer on my
team than Jade and Ivy if I'm the Pistons at this.
Speaker 2: Point, I don't think that's no. I don't think that's
that bold, just because, like, as we're talking about this team,
a lot of the things we want the Pistons to have,
Jade and Ivy was supposed to provide, and that's been
the case for a long now. The injury is just like,
come on, relax a little bit, like, you know, give
the guy a break. That that is a factor, Like
it's not just the broken leg. He also has had
knee surgery like not that long. So I don't know
what you want him to be. But I find myself
thinking the same thing of like I I could understand
the Pistons being hesitant to trade him just because they
could very credibly say to themselves like, we just don't
know yet still like we have he hasn't had like
we've seen flashes of the shooting. I don't know if
the defense is ever gonna get there, but like, this
is a great defensive team, so maybe not all five
guys on the floor have to be just lights out defensively.
Spencer just weirdly does Spencer does feel like more of
a I know what I'm getting from him, even though
his track record is so much shorter. Is that like
part of the reason you're into him over Ivy?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, I also just I value connector scalable types,
and Jade and Ivy may have I mean, what is
he shooting like eighteen percent from three something crazy s
until over the past month, but the Key has proven
a little bit more scalable on the offensive end. But
Cam Spencer, I just think fills in more gaps and
you can count on him being a universal fit. And
then there's also maybe it's not like this, but that
contract he's got like three years and eight million dollars
left on it or something stupid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think that I like that name. I
look and look, so we've got some pretty good names
here and this is just the like these are the
these are the like worst swinging for singles type of
names for the Pistons.
Speaker 1: Well, the what's interesting here is like kind of what
they did with Dennis Shruder last year? Is there any
one have we already named them? I don't think that
we have. And I was trying to think of who's
that player that could help them that a team just
really doesn't want or value and you just trade them
to the Pistons because look, the trade exception doesn't expire
until July, so like they don't they can sit on it.
But and they could also use if they prefer. I'm
sure they might even prefer to move carsle Burt and
keep the trade exception into the summer. But I was
just wondering, if you have the opportunity to add a
player for basically nothing, you're not giving up anything out
of your rotation. I didn't necessarily spot that opportunity off
rip for them this year, no.
Speaker 2: I Well, when you said a player that nobody wants,
D'Angel Russell was the very first name that came to mind,
I said, helpful though, that's the problem. But yeah, just
in the shrewder vein that was the first first the
first guy that popped into my head. Yeah, it's not
easy to get a shrewd like shrewder last year was
like was good for like mattered for stretches of that
of that run.
Speaker 1: As like even just having someone like him, And it's
not I'm not saying Denis Shruder is a terrible player,
but to alleviate the ball handling workload from Caide became
this revelation.
Speaker 2: Right, well, you know what, like, isn't Karris Lavert also
supposed to do this? Like is he like Jade and
Ivy where it's just like guys, like the players were describing.
That's kind of you what's going on?
Speaker 1: I'm eating my words. On the Karros Lavert signing, I
was pretty I thought that was going to be excellent for.
Speaker 2: The Piston's sensing theory. It still makes sensing theory, it's
just in practice it hasn't. He hasn't done what they needed.
Speaker 1: This doesn't check the ball handling box. My guess would
be that one they won't do this unto if they did,
they're not gonna send them to a conference rival. But
the Calves are just they're still weird. They've gotten better.
What if they What if Dan Gilbert's looking to slash
and we know they're not going to get out of
the second April. Dean Wade would be fantastic on this team.
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: I mean he would do a lot of the Harris
stuff just way cheaper.
Speaker 1: Uh better defensively, better defender.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's one he who's is there a bigger hipster
like you know, who's good guy than Dean Wade? He's
way up there. Pat Spencer, that's occasional, one time NBA starter,
Pat Spencer who just hasn't played basket Santos.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna keep naming Warriors on cheap deals.
Speaker 2: There was another guy that I forgot now maybe it
was Paul Reid. I feel Paul Reid. He's on the Pistons.
They got they already got their hipster.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we got it. There needs to be that'll be
a have to be a stat padding segment is who
is the like you know ball all all you know
ball team to where if you say this guy is
good as oh, you really pay attention to the NBA.
Speaker 2: Or you you read you read a lot of people's
takes that pay attention to the NBA and you've adopted those.
Speaker 1: Let's talk bigger splashes I think that's what everyone If
that's it seems like you're if any of these guys
were discussing and we decide our good I fits are available,
it seems like we're both. You're there more than I am.
Where it's just the Piston should go out and get them. Basically,
what like with within reason, you're not gonna go you
only have five first round pick like whatever. But the name,
my favorite name for this team is close to splitting
the baby, but he's expensive in salary. I love Michael
Porter Junior for the Pistons. Now, oh yeah, yeah, that's
like and that's the one two years left on it
are one more year after this on his contract, so
he comes off the books and we'll probably get cheaper
if we're being honest, after that at a time when oh,
we're worried about paying Duran, Kate and Asar at the
same time, I think that's my favorite. My favorite target
for them would be Trey Murphy, I really, especially because
he's so cheap when he's already averages what like eighteen
percent of the salary cap. But if I was trying
to think, it doesn't seem as if the Pelicans are
willing to move him, Or if I'm the Pistons and
it's I can give up a first round pick in
one of my lower level young players in salary to
get Michael Porter Junior. I probably prefer that route to
giving up three first round picks and a young player
for Trey Murphy. I think, yeah.
Speaker 2: Or the more the even marketing of it all like
that's going to cost you. I would imagine that costs
you more than Porter Junior. I don't know if I
wonder if Murphy, because of the youth and the cost,
might actually require more going out than marken In. Would
we could do it.
Speaker 1: I think he would, especially because he's not on the
same levels what's happening with what happened with Trey, what happened,
what's happening with John Morant. But it does seem though
that NBA teams are kind of re thinking how they value.
Remember we used to ask can you max out your
third best player? And now it feels like we're asking
that question about someone who is going could maybe be
your second best player, and marketing falls into that bucket
for me. I think the difference with him, though I
still think Tramer of he gets more, is that Utah
just isn't going to move him unless they get a
godfather offer.
Speaker 2: Right. Well, that's the way that the Pelicans aren't even
posturing that way. They're just saying like we're not trading anybody,
which is like what we need to do a couple
of minutes on that, like gotta keep the gang together.
Things are going so great.
Speaker 1: I do love that. I find it a shout out
to if any team actually called about Derek Queen though,
because in that report from Quissedes that they've been telling
teams they won't trade Derek Queen, and it just read
like Joe Dumarsh was planning on taking a vacation and
sent out the PSA. It's like, we're just not gonna
be open for business.
Speaker 2: It's out of office email that Repelicans just sent that
out and just like don't bother because we're not going
to answer. It's not because we're not interested. It's like
we're real sleepy. We'd like to go take a break
for a couple of weeks. Yeah, no, are there any
other I'm trying to think of some other We do
have a few other bigger names. We've said the biggest
names though, I think that are reasonably like doable in
marking and Murphy and MPJ.
Speaker 1: Do you like Jaron Jackson Junior for this team?
Speaker 2: I like Jaron Jackson Junior for any team.
Speaker 1: I would if you're talking about the teams that need
rebounding and guys who don't foul. Uh, you know, it.
Speaker 2: Depends on how good your infrastructure is on those Yeah, right, Uh,
Pistons don't need well. Actually, the Pistons need someone that's
not gonna foul and there's there is your answer, because
they foul too much. So Jaron Jackson Jr. That's also
perfectly he's he's their guy.
Speaker 1: That's part of their Jared Jackson Junior does it in
more of a boneheaded way. But the Pistons, it's it's
almost like the thunder esque ethos of they're not gonna
call everything, and so the compromise will be will rank
bottom five or whatever they currently are and foul foul ray.
But it allows us to play physical defense because they're
not going to call everything. So Jared Jackson works.
Speaker 2: It works for the teams to try it so far.
Speaker 1: I think Jared Jackson Junior's type of fouls though, would
probably anger them. But well, yeah, do you think he's
enough of a scorer because it's just more asked me
this when we were recording about I don't even know
which team it was, but he asked, where has Jared
Jackson new year gotten better? And now if this was
last year, it felt like as an ISO scorer, he's
improved a lot, but even that has been doesn't look
the same this year. And even as he was improving
as an ISO score, did you ever trust Jared Jackson
Junior cooking off the dribble? And so I think if
you're the Pistons, he's not giving you the playmaking element.
His floor spacing come and goes. But he's a floor
spacer for sure, So you can count as that if
you don't trust that he I mean that he is
going to be more of a self sufficient scorer and
put pressure on defenses and consistently score efficiently in those situations.
I find myself going, well, I think I'd rather have
Michael Porter Junior, who by the way, is in the
ninety fourth percentile self created shot making officialcy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I take your point. I think, like doesn't some
part of you want to excuse some of the lack
of progress from Jaron Jackson this year by just citing
the offseason surgery. By citing memphisis is kind of a mess,
Like I mean, no, you could keep well, you could
counter and say like also, like his whole career has
been defined by like a skill that shows up one
year and disappears the next, So like, how do you
count on him? Like, how do you know what version
you're getting? I think it's easier for me to imagine him. Well,
I don't know, but Porter Junior has been like he's
been a key piece on a title winner. So it's
kind of I was gonna say, I can imagine Jared
Jackson Junior being like he's on the floor at the
end of a finals game, but like Porter Junior has
done that, he rests on defense. Mostly.
Speaker 1: To me, he's sort of like the inverse of Karl
Anthony Towns, but with more insulated pr because I just
think that he's a maddeningly frustrating player to watch and
can be so inconsistent. You know, he can do certain things,
but when he does piece them together, it's ephemeral or
there's an extended stretch and then it disappears. And so
it's like with Karl Anthony Towns being wildly consistent on
the offensive end, and it's oh, he held up in
a switching defensive scheme and now all of a sudden
he decided he doesn't wanted the fanderies falling down on
the floor and watching plays from whatever. I like, i'm'
I love Jared jack and on this team, I think
he'd be insulated, like there's nothing he's He's fantastic defensively
and the rebounding and fouling issues wouldn't be a problem here.
But the offensive stuff, I think it actually could be
a little louder than we might be giving credit just
because outside of Cade that if we're sitting here and saying,
after you acquired R. Jackson Junior, like yeah, like Jalen
Duran's our second best self creator, that's still an issue.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair. I guess the question then
is like, because look, Jackson is someone that has been
on the very very short list for Defensive Player of
the Year what like three different seasons. Uh yeah, So, like,
are the gains on that end enough to offset the
the like I don't know, the lost potential offensively between
him and Markenen or MPJ or whoever you want to list,
Like the answer might be yeah, because then you're just
then you're an OKC level defense or something close to it, right,
Like if you add him with Aran, he plays with
Durnan and Stewart, and you've got all these giant wings
that guard. Like, But if we're talking about addressing needs
I get I think you could credibly make the case
that like Porter Junior or Marken or Murphy just do
that better. If we just want more shooting and spacing.
I don't think you can argue that Jaron Jackson Junior
is like a safer bet on those fronts than any
of those.
Speaker 1: But do you think so, even aside from the fit,
who do you think would cost more to get in Detroit,
Trey Murphy or Jaron Jackson Jr.
Speaker 2: I would lean Jackson Junior just because he's got I mean,
Murphy's never been Murphy's, Like, I get it. The universal
fit is like Murphy's just like he makes threes and
he can dunk, and he's got good positional size and
linked and whatever, and it's cheaper. But Jackson's just like again,
defensive player of the year, like consistently in the conversation
all defense plenty of times, like is a big that
can stretch, Like I just I think that's worth a lot.
And then bigger name, I don't know, throw that in
there too, Like I feel like he goes for more
even with that, what like two hundred million dollars over
the next four years, Like that's that's a big deal.
I still lean that he might go for more.
Speaker 1: Do any of the names like A Ruby, Hachima, Andrew Wiggins,
or Norman Powell do it for you? Those are more
in spirit, they're split the baby trade targets, but they're
not They're not players that teams are just giving away.
Speaker 2: I think Wiggins would be a pretty big upgrade and
wouldn't sacrifice any defense if he replaces Harris, for example.
Powell is kind of what you were talking about earlier
of like if the if the offensive games are coming
at like strictly a backcourt spot, how much are you
really improving?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know because he's not he's
not jump starting the offense for anything. He could do
that out of drives a little bit, but he's not
starting the offense for teams. I actually do. I had
a name here, and this is not the season to
suggest it because he's been injured and when he's played,
he hasn't looked great. What about Tyler Hero for this team,
I don't know.
Speaker 2: I guess he in comparison to Powell would give you
more of the secondary playmaking and plenty of shooting. I'm
not sure. Again at the the backcourt stuff, like in
Tyler Hero, you're kind of getting the guy that you
hope to Jade and Ivy would be. I feel like, uh,
and and I don't know what you do? Extension eligible
right now? Right isn't here?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he has another year left on his deal.
And just the way that his archetypes have been getting paid.
And again it does feel like there's sort of the
shift in how these non stars or superstar or perennial
All Star contenders because he is an All Star but
it's a one off, are getting paid. I just don't know.
And it more so feels like, oh, the Heat are
looking to cut salary and entering more of a reset
mode that they move him. But I would consider doing
Tobias Harris, Jade and Ivy and a pick like this
year's pick, which is gonna be what twenty ninth, twenty eighth.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's the other thing is we haven't really
talked about that is. Whatever they do, the Pistons are
going to be good for the next several years. So,
like you, other teams know this, but like you, your
first rounders aren't going to be great, so you probably
if you're going to start moving things like go for it.
Speaker 1: Any other names to discuss with this team stand out?
Speaker 2: Let's see just a piss off Pistons fans, Jeremy Grant.
Throw him in there in the Harris spot.
Speaker 1: Just would you prefer him to would you prefer him
to Tobias Harris?
Speaker 2: If you're gonna give me the version of Jeremy Grant
that can shoot threes and not shoot like under forty
percent from two whatever that was a couple of years ago,
then yeah, I mean he's they're really not that different.
But don't you feel like Grant has a little more
juice at this point? Still?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I defensively yes, But like Tobias Harris might give
you some rebounding and I trust I think I trust
his scoring package more overall, All right, Jeremy Grant was
having a pretty good season for you and Tobias Harris.
I'm looking at eighteen point five percent from three since
December fifteenth, not great shakes only played nine games, So
what about they probably wouldn't train him like Nikhil. Alexander
Walker's just probably off limited Atlanta.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, if you can get to kill Alexander Walker,
you do it. That's that's my that's my NBA truism. Yeah,
I don't know, Like Atlanta's not trading him. I don't
think unless unless the Pistons put like a this could
actually be a marketing level offer on.
Speaker 1: The table, which they probably shouldn't do, probably shouldn't clear that. Yeah,
I don't there if they were going like a super
cheap route, you could maybe make a bet on Gary
Trent Junior for Milwaukee, but that's more like that's a
minimum thing. Yeah, nobody else really, somebody else stands out
for me.
Speaker 2: What do you we've talked about what we think they
should do. What do you think if you had to
guess the Pistons will actually do, you don't have to
name a name. You think you think it's they're going
to use that trade exception and call it good.
Speaker 1: And I do think whether it's that or it's we traded,
even if it's we traded to bias Harris, but it
was for just you know, maybe it was two players
or just a name that you wouldn't wasn't a door
stopping name.
Speaker 2: And so so Harris. If they make a trade, do
you think Harris is the most likely guy to go,
because that would mean it's a bigger trade. Probably you
can expect a player at least Well, yeah, sure.
Speaker 1: I think the the only of all the names. I
think part of it might be the market to where
are the Pelicans really looking to move trade Murphy or
Jaz's really move market into the Grizzlies really looking to
move Jaron Jackson Jr. I think the biggest possible acquisition
they would make is Michael Porter Junior. Feels like the
ceiling on what they maybe can do, but more so
what they'll be willing to do.
Speaker 2: I think too we didn't really mention. I mean we
did note that they have all they control of their
own firsts. That's relevant to me because in a lot
of cases, in a lot of those look aheads, we've said,
well they could, you probably don't want to do anything
now because if you wait till the offseason, these other
first rounders open up. Detroit like doesn't really have the
incentive to wait until the offseason if there's a deal
to be made, other than to say, like, well, by
then will we'll really know what our needs are like
if we if we lose a playoff series for this reason,
then then it's like, Okay, we don't have to wonder
like what if Lavernon IVY do come through, Like, well
they didn't, so now we know or they did, and
now we know we can continue to be conservative. Like
I think that's there just as a contrast to a
lot of teams. There are a lot of teams that
it's like it doesn't make Yeah, they need this, but
don't do it now, wait until the summer, bigger options
are available.
Speaker 1: I have anything else on them? Are you ready to
take us out of here?
Speaker 2: I think that's plenty on the Pistons. Interesting team could
be a big you know, big mover and shaker. I
think we both kind of like them to be.
Speaker 1: But right because I mean, even the idea of if
you just took he's going to be an All Star
probably So this is a weird way to frame it,
but imagine you have the best team in the Eastern
Conference and you're just adding Michael Porter to it. That's
kind of insane, pretty good.
Speaker 2: And it wouldn't. Yeah, and you absolutely could do it
if you wanted to.
Speaker 1: It's not like you could you could technically do it
if you wanted to bring to Bias Harris off the
bench for whatever, Like it does have to be his
money because they have so much flexibility, right if you
wanted to use like Duncan Robinson or Karis Lavert and
Jade and Ivy and that's like part of the compensation
going out or Karas Alvert and Duncan Robinson, like you
could get there in ways that route. So they just
have so many different options at their disposal. I think
they're my favorite Michael Porter junior team just because it
feels realistic and like that's the team. Where like if
Michael Porter Junior goes to Golden State or something, I
don't all right cool, but if he goes to Detroit, it's, oh,
so we've taken maybe the favorite in the Eastern Conference
and just giving them this all star score.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in say no. That's kind of why I hope
they are more aggressive than it seems like they're gonna be,
because they just the need is obvious that the targets
are clear they have the assets to do it. We'll
We'll just see what they're what their appetite for big
trades are. Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. Remember to rate,
review and subscribe, Tell your friends, tell your enemies, joining
our discord links for that in YouTube and podcast descriptions.
Share this clip out there with all your Pistons fans
so we can get a ground swallow support for aggressive moods.
That's what we need to.
Speaker 1: Say, and I'm actually curious we should have mentioned this
at the top of the podcast. Pistons fans, let us
know in the comments what you would prefer to do,
because I'm just assuming the fan sentiment would be hashtag
golf for it, and maybe.
Speaker 2: Well I wonder that though, So yeah, let us know
what you think they should do, and then what you
think they will do, because I bet I kind of
feel like those answers are going to be different. Thanks again,
shouts Franklin like king. Apologies, Jared Allen